Thread Starter.
Printable View
Thread Starter.
Since Jackson was so kind as to create this thread, I figured it deserves some posts, so I'll kick it off.
One of the keys of closing the deal with a girl (at least low mileage ones) is getting her back to your place. Doing so without raising suspicions - and thus resistance - is an artform. Here's what I've gleaned from pros such as Doc Skank and Roger Mellie:
1) "I have a present for you back at my place."
It's always good to have a bottle of two of name-brand eau de toilette in reserve. I've also used knock-off (but decent quality) "designer" ladies watches that I bought in Thailand to good effect.
2) "I was cooking this afternoon and don't remember if I turned off the burner or not."
Of course you really have to have been cooking to make this work. Soup is probably the most believable, as Russians eat (and thus cook) soup regularly.
3) "I need some milk/youghurt/bread for the morning, let me buy some and drop it off so I won't have to do it after our date."
Requires some planning, as your route needs to logically take you from being with her, to the store, to your place and then plausibly somewhere afterwards.
4) "If you really like that type of photography/architecture/music [that we've been discussing], I have a lot on my computer, if you'd like to see/hear them."
She'll know what's going on here, but at least it's plausible enough for her to save face.
I'd be curious to any others which people have used successfully (or unsuccessfully for that matter!)
As a short time traveller I don't have anything in my hotel room apart from my things. I also stay in hotel and not in apartment, so no possibility to cook and moreover I cannot spend time cooking.
So my question is always: Chotsies priexat v gotel? Or chotsies byt semnoj v gotel? (do you want to come to hotel? Or do you want to stay with me in hotel? ).
The word hotel usually stirs up red alarm in girls' minds. So maybe it is better to avoid this word ''hotel'' and say sth like ''do you want to come with me to my room? ''(chotsies priexat semnoj v komniate).
By the time the girl decides to enter the hotel door, she knows what follows thereafter. So any acceptance of the offer means only one thing.
I don't justify why she should come to me at the hotel room. I throw it like that and she has to choose.
When she decides yes, I take a taxi and go to hotel as quickly as possible before she changes her decision (which can be changed by one million factors, like a harsh, bad smelling taxi driver, a bad quality taxi, a stranger coming and asking for something, rotten walls inside hotel, bad behaviour of receptionist,comments all these details play important role and you have to be ready to face every possible distraction. Sometimes you cannot even imagine what will happen. The way you handle the unexpected determines the proportion of your success.)
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]. One of the keys of closing the deal with a girl (at least low mileage ones) is getting her back to your place. Doing so without raising suspicions. [/QUOTE]Being 50 has it drawbacks. But in Kyiv I do fairly well with the 23 to 25 age group (just takes so damn long).
From time to time I rather enjoy the 34 to 44 age group for a 'quick one'!
I also love the 'hunt'. Its like Christmas for a kid. Unwrapping/opening the present the 1st time is most exciting.
I use love. Mail. Ru, look for those that do not speak english and we chat in my limited / translated Russian. I flirt! I am bold! I tell them what I like and what I want to do with them, up until the point they accuse me of only wanting 'virtual sex'! Then I stop.
Now its time to meet. I tell them they will like me in person, so we will meet in cafe near my home and after our 5 minutes of conversing we will go to use home computer to continue our date.
Sitting next to each other sharing a keyboard allows for multiple ways to touch, flirt, laugh.
Sooner OR later I type I want her kisses.
The rest is obvious!
I have found that Sundays are the best. I have met a woman for the 1st time like at 9am, and by 5pm we are in bed! Once it did not even include using the computer, just straight from the cafe to undressing.
Also, strike as soon as you can. I have many conversations that were only for a day and she disappeared. Reasons here are obvious too. Get that mobile number!
LS 'the fox' Guy
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]
I'd be curious to any others which people have used successfully (or unsuccessfully for that matter!)[/QUOTE]
The lure of "presents" is always a good draw. I have often offered to show the young damsel some photographs of my travels which are on my computer. Stories of exotic women from far off lands can sometimes pique the curiosity.
On one occasion, before a date, I suggested that she pack an over night bag so that she didn't have to risk driving home (if she has a car) back to the suburbs after a few bottles of wine with dinner. Of course, I tell her that I will sleep on the sofa if she has any concerns over my sexual advances. ;)
[quote=pizdyets]one of the keys of closing the deal with a girl (at least low mileage ones) is getting her back to your place. doing so without raising suspicions - and thus resistance - is an artform. here's what i've gleaned from pros such as doc skank and roger mellie:
1) "i have a present for you back at my place."
it's always good to have a bottle of two of name-brand eau de toilette in reserve. i've also used knock-off (but decent quality) "designer" ladies watches that i bought in thailand to good effect.
2) "i was cooking this afternoon and don't remember if i turned off the burner or not."
of course you really have to have been cooking to make this work. soup is probably the most believable, as russians eat (and thus cook) soup regularly.
3) "i need some milk/youghurt/bread for the morning, let me buy some and drop it off so i won't have to do it after our date."
requires some planning, as your route needs to logically take you from being with her, to the store, to your place and then plausibly somewhere afterwards.
4) "if you really like that type of photography/architecture/music [that we've been discussing], i have a lot on my computer, if you'd like to see/hear them."
she'll know what's going on here, but at least it's plausible enough for her to save face.
i'd be curious to any others which people have used successfully (or unsuccessfully for that matter!)[/quote]actually the only thing that matters is getting her back to your place, since you can't fuck her on the street... although actually i did fuck a girl in an alley near chisty prudi a couple years back and i fucked a girl in the movie theatre by the renaissance hotel as well.
getting her to come up is the ultimate challenge, since girls do have the built-in cultural training that going to a guy's apartment usually means agreeing to sex, or can be dangerous. i don't blame the girls for their caution, as [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] often goes unpunished in russia. sadly, i personally know several girls who were raped by russian guys. the police verdict: you were alone with him (or them) in their apartment and had been drinking: your fault. case closed.
nonetheless, things are changing somewhat with modern times. going to a guy's apartment is (regrettably for us i suppose) no longer automatic sex, at least during the daytime or evening. at night the hit rate approaches 100% however.
the above-mentioned ploys are still pretty up-to-date, although i must admit that the present ploy doesn't always work. i think it is important to judge the girl you are talking to. every girl loves presents, but some girls aren't willing to trade sex on a first date for a box of chocolates. the ploy is obviously see-through. nonetheless, it doesn't hurt to try if it seems that she isn't going to come up for tea without some alterior motivation. where the present ploy can work very well is if you already have the girl in the room and she seems keen to leave... deploying the secret weapon will often change her mind. underwear must be tried on and modeled. perfume must be tested and "celebrated".
just as effective, or maybe even more so, is the previously mentioned inviting her in to look at pictures on the pc. either on your laptop or elsewhere, like flickr, looking at pictures is a good opportunity to talk about a lot of subjects, get some bodily contact and/or cuddle time and close the deal. it shows her sides of your personality and well, chicks dig that.
ask a girlfriend what she's likes about you most or the best time she ever had with you. the answers will surprise... it's often pretty plain stuff and not the spectacular meal or your cool clothes.
here's another one that i've been using recently. tell her you want to show her some cool stuff on youtube. amazingly it works. show her some funny videos, or some cool music.. let her show you some russian stuff.. drink some whisky and presto: panties off.
the shopping ploy is a cool one, but admittedly roger mellie's idea and not mine. smooth bastard.
another one i use is the very simple "i want to talk to you alone, i have some private things to say to you." also sometimes works if you deliver the message in a casual non-threatening way.
a dodgy last chance gambit for pulling girls from clubs, and i think also previously mentioned by another isg monger, is telling them they can spend the night and don't have to take a taxi all the way home. especially on cold winter nights if delivered again in the right way, like expressing concern for their safety, it surprisingly sometimes works. last chance gambit, nothing to lose. usually you'll have to mention that you can sleep on the couch, but of course both parties know that isn't going to happen. this can also be very effective with girls that have a tag-along bodyguard. bring her with... she'll either end up in bed with you and your new friend or she'll be sleeping on the couch while you get face and pussy time.
[QUOTE=Jake993]The lure of "presents" is always a good draw. I have often offered to show the young damsel some photographs of my travels which are on my computer. Stories of exotic women from far off lands can sometimes pique the curiosity. [/QUOTE]Presents are a touchy subject, as we mongers are by our nature cheap bastards. The inherent costs of mongering are high enough, presents only add to the costs and in worse cases, even spoil the girls and make them more demanding.
Nonetheless, presents can be an important tool.
Just as important as whether or not to purchase... or maybe more important... is the question if presents have a lasting, positive effect.
Personally I believe they do. In my experience however, the choice of present is important.
I will reinstate that, besides the "fishing" presents used to lure girls into the apartment for "chai", only selected girls get presents and I always choose the present and give it as a gift. I (almost) never go shopping with a girl. That is the single most emasculating thing I can think of. My only shopping excursions have been when I have been in the mood and said "let's get you some new shoes" or something like that. Obviously, this goes over very well but must be gauged in terms of cost vs. loyalty benefit.
Cost vs. Loyalty Benefit
Not only is choice of present determined by cost, but also by what you get out of it directly as well as what she will use it for.
I've tried several different variations of presents, most notably:
* perfume
* clothing
* lingerie
* watches
* travel
* jewelry
* stuffed animals/dolls/toys
Generally speaking, my presents range from $30-150 in cost. The majority however cost around $70.
This may seem like a lot, and it is if you aren't going to get more out of it than a smile and maybe some pussy. That is where one asks oneself if it is worth it, the answer being IMO "yes... if it has a lasting, positive effect".
Here's my experience, rated in terms of loyalty value:
* perfume: good value, medium cost, however she will definitely use it and will associate it with you. It's a good gift, however be careful when selecting. I genuinely test several scents before picking one for a girl and try to make sure that it is one that matches her. For example a 19-year old sporty type won't have much opportunity to use a heavy, formal perfume just as a high-class, snootier type probably won't want something too girlish. Good opening gift as well as a good gift for "fishing".
* clothing: good value, medium cost, although difficult to choose the right item. I generally like to choose items that can be worn immediately, making sure I get a fashion show. I also only buy clothing for girls who need it, like poor student types. An elite Muscovite can... and should... be buying her own clothes. Her taste is going to be too expensive anyway. Drawback is that if you choose poorly, she'll never wear it.
* lingerie: medium value, low cost, with benefits. The obvious benefit is that she will wear it right away, at least you should arrange things so that she has to. This means fashion show means pictures means sex. One drawback is that girls are very particular about what they like to wear and sometimes judging sizes is difficult. I find judging bra size to be fairly easy, but panty size is tougher. Some skinny girls are hippier than they appear, so just because she's only 45kg doesn't mean she's XS. But she usually is. :) Another drawback is the notion that she may wear it for someone else. This can't be controlled of course (even though I have specifically told girls not to wear it for any other guys and they invariably responded "only for you Mr.Skank!"), but just the notion that someone else will get use out of my gift is a buzzkill.
* watches: good value, high cost. I am a watch fetish, so shopping for them is fun for me. Generally I choose $70-100 Swatch watches or a cheaper name brand watch like DKNY or Fossil. This is a good gift for a special girl that is a keeper. I check their watches beforehand and if they have cheap watches I sometimes get them one. As stated before with clothing, I only would give such a gift to a girl that needs it. Elitny type girls have too expensive taste and can afford their own watches... or have somebody more free-spending than me buy them one.
* travel: excellent value, high cost. This is a toughie and a ploy I've only used rarely. Nonetheless, I must say that it's very high value both in terms of personal value and loyalty benefit. I recently flew a girl to Europe from Moscow, costing me roughly $400 in airfare. All other costs like food, hotel etc. of course I covered, however these weren't significantly more than I would have had anyway. For the cost of airfare I got 3 days of on-demand real GF sex, interesting company for my tourist endeavour and free language lessons.. not to mention pics and video. Another travel option is flying girls from the provinces into Moscow. Works well for me, although the roughly $200-300 airfare must be considered. Still cheaper than pro sex however and benefits are greater. Needless to say loyalty factor is extremely high. I still get comments from girls flown in that our "mini-otpusk" was the best time in their life. This in itself is worth it... and a testament to which kind of gray lives most of these girls lead, despite all the talk of elite clubs and rich Russians.
* jewelry: medium value, medium cost. Of course there are different price categories on jewelry and the initial response is very positive, however I find it is difficult to find jewelry for girls that they'll definitely wear. Nothing is worse than buying someone a present they won't use. If you want to go this route anyhow, I find that earrings that match her eyes or a pendant work well. You should observe her style IMO, for example most girls are either silver or gold and not both. Get something she'll actually wear. I generally don't get jewelry anymore though, as I've made a couple of poor choices both in terms of gift and recipient. Again, if going this route make sure it's for a keeper with added value.
* stuffed animals/dolls/toys: good value, low cost. A simple, classic gift. I enjoy the thought of her at home in bed with a stuffed animal or toy from me. Means automatic association. Moreover, girls find it cute. And besides, it's cheap. Only works with girls you already now obviously, it's generally not a good opening gift but rather a maintainer.
Just my 2 cents. Thoughts from other's personal experience out there in ISG-Land?
personally i let the girl choose what present she wants. girls usually want:
1. mobile phones
2. clothes
3. perfumes
4. jewelry
5. accessories
if the deal regards an expensive present like mobile phone, i try to make sure that sex will follow thereafter. that is the deal is ''i buy you a phone, you sleep with me'', no further obligations.
clothes, perfumes and accessories which are cheaper are for girls who i already slept with. they are like reward.
jewelry is for ''serious relationship''. mind you that girls in province want some form of commitment inside 2-6 months after sleeping with you.
in my opinion, you cannot buy sex from freebies unless you pay for expensive presents.
travel: this is the constant dilemma. should i travel to her city meaning having the chance to date many more girls, or should i pay the expenses for her travel and have her stay with me, sex 100% guaranteed.
both options can work, however paying for her travel leads to 100% results. it is more risky to go to her, in which case you need very good skills, flexibility and speed and some luck as well, which you hunt.
whether or not sb should pay for the travel depends on the girl's appearance and behaviour. i find it pointless to pay for a girl in the 5-7 range.
for example it is better then to go to her city and meet other girls 6-9 in terms of appearance as well.
but if the girl is a stunner, a 8-10 then paying for her to travel is worth it.
basically you need judgement and experience to have a feeling how much each girl is worth.
[size=-2][b][u]editor's note[/u]:[/b] [blue]i would suggest that the author or another forum member consider posting a link to this report in the reports of distinction thread. please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]click here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]
I remember some guy here who used to give "Here Kitty" panties to his ladies, then post photos of his prizes. Was that you Doc?
And has anyone ever been in the embarassing situation of disrobing a girl,
revealing Hey Kitty attire that reminds you Kilroy was there before you?
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
Just my 2 cents. Thoughts from others personal experience out there in ISG-Land?[/QUOTE]
The giving of gift as a prelude to sex is tricky business indeed. I have sampled the whole range from cheap to expensive and found that there are no hard and fast rules or sure-fire gifts.
Personalization is always good. A less expensive but more personal gift can be the ticket straight to bed while an expensive but impersonal (or inappropriate) gift can be a waste of money.
A few years back, when an iPhone was like gold, I was chatting with a mamba girl who said she would fulfill my wildest sexual fantasies if I could bring her an unlocked iPhone. I went on eBay and found a cheap used 4GB model and showed up in Moscow a week later with it in hand. When I gave it to her she went white as a sheet because she didn't think I could actually get one. It eventually led to sex but it was by no means a sure fire ticket.
Another time, I had was in Brazil and bought the skimpiest of "dental floss" bikinis for a girl I was seeing in Moscow that cost me all of about $12. Over drinks I handed her a tiny little wrapped package and she asked me what it was. When I told her it was a bikini I had brought her from Rio de Janeiro, I swear she just about gave me a blow job right there in bar. What a turn-on for her.
Conversely, I always buy a half dozen Matrioshka Dolls to give to the Brazileiras - they LOVE them cause they are exotic and cute.
Pretty much agree with your assessment below. Perfume is a big gamble and while watches are always nice, if you get the style wrong, it can be a big "so what" and buy you nothing.
Russian girls seem to assume that once you are in the departure lounge of SVO (or DME) that you have already forgotten all about them. So when I send an SMS to a Moscow girl from the Amsterdam duty free perfume shop (on he way to Russia) telling her where I am and asking what she would like, that can be a turn on because you are in another country "thinking of her".
I blew it big time once with a Russian girl who asked me in advance to bring her some lingerie from the Victoria's Secret web site. I thought I would be class it up by buying her a similar style but in a much more expensive brand. Turns out she had plenty of sexy undies from the most expensive labels in Paris but thought VC was cute. So much for my powers of deduction. Oh, I did get laid that weekend but it wasn't because of the lingerie.
My best "smart buy" was a pair of Carolina Herrera sunglasses from the duty free cart on the plane. They were $170 and when I presented them to my little Brazilian pro, she was so thrilled that she waived the fees for the whole weekend.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]I remember some guy here who used to give "Here Kitty" panties to his ladies, then post photos of his prizes. Was that you Doc?
And has anyone ever been in the embarassing situation of disrobing a girl,
revealing Hey Kitty attire that reminds you Kilroy was there before you?[/QUOTE]Goodbye kitty, hello booty camp!
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
* watches: good value, high cost. I am a watch fetish, so shopping for them is fun for me. Generally I choose $70-100 Swatch watches or a cheaper name brand watch like DKNY or Fossil. This is a good gift for a special girl that is a keeper. I check their watches beforehand and if they have cheap watches I sometimes get them one. As stated before with clothing, I only would give such a gift to a girl that needs it. Elitny type girls have too expensive taste and can afford their own watches... or have somebody more free-spending than me buy them one.
[/QUOTE]
If you're ever in Thailand, you can pick up some really decent quality fakes. Of course the girls *know* that they're fake, but that doesn't faze them if they look good enough. And we're talking $30-40, not $70-100...
[QUOTE]
* travel: excellent value, high cost. This is a toughie and a ploy I've only used rarely. Nonetheless, I must say that it's very high value both in terms of personal value and loyalty benefit. I recently flew a girl to Europe from Moscow, costing me roughly $400 in airfare. All other costs like food, hotel etc. of course I covered, however these weren't significantly more than I would have had anyway. For the cost of airfare I got 3 days of on-demand real GF sex, interesting company for my tourist endeavour and free language lessons.. not to mention pics and video. Another travel option is flying girls from the provinces into Moscow. Works well for me, although the roughly $200-300 airfare must be considered. Still cheaper than pro sex however and benefits are greater. Needless to say loyalty factor is extremely high. I still get comments from girls flown in that our "mini-otpusk" was the best time in their life.
[/QUOTE]
Yup, heard the exact same line before, tears streaking down her face as she climbed into the taxi to the airport to return to her banal life. That was after 3 days (and nights) of no-holes-barred sex-o-rama, including probing her virgin backdoor (she loved it), A2M (no complexes here), and teaching her to deep-throat (no gag reflex whatsoever). Of course if you total it all up, I could have had cheaper sex elsewhere, but the quality (and quantity) more than made up for the expense.
[QUOTE]
Thoughts from other's personal experience out there in ISG-Land?[/QUOTE]
It may sound weird, but I've had good luck with cigarettes and booze, as long as you nail what the girl likes. One of my GFs only smoked Esse, so I was flying home from Korea one time and picked up a carton of "elite" Esse cigs that you can only buy there (or so they claimed in Duty Free). Each had a metal case, and the cigs themselves looked pretty cool. Though I had fucked the girl many times before, she gave up her ass for me that night...
[quote=hecker] personally i let the girl choose what present she wants. [/quote]that's a dangerous and expensive road to travel. i hope you are getting the benefits you want from it. i personally like to choose the time and place of presents... if they get them at all. anything else is financial irresponsibility, and as i stated before letting her choose is giving her too much power. it's emasculating. i think you should be "tougher". in my experience, being the chooser on all issues is the best course of action. of course it isn't always possible to dictate everything in a relationship, but 95% of the time it is. it's what they like and are comfortable with.[quote=hecker]girls usually want: 1. mobile phones[/quote] yuck. way too expensive and way too "whorish". just my opinion, if a girl asks for a phone it's like "hey asshole, buy me a mother-fucking phone." i don't mean to be rude, but i'd rather just give her money and say "here's $500, now fuck me for 3 days straight." frankly though, i can only recall very few incidents where i was asked. every girl i've ever met already has a phone. i've literally told the ones that asked me "let somebody else buy you a phone". it didn't stop me from fucking them.[quote=hecker]if the deal regards an expensive present like mobile phone, i try to make sure that sex will follow thereafter. that is the deal is ''i buy you a phone, you sleep with me'', no further obligations.[/quote]exactly. still too pricey for me though. phones cost $500-700.[quote=hecker]clothes, perfumes and accessories which are cheaper are for girls who i already slept with. they are like reward.[/quote]maintenance, and only give them to those who appreciate it.[quote=hecker]jewelry is for ''serious relationship''. mind you that girls in province want some form of commitment inside 2-6 months after sleeping with you.[/quote]not my experience. they don't want anything but to see me again. girls from provinces are extremely low maintenance. besides, jewelry doesn't have to be expensive. swarovski for example is cheap and girl's dig it because it's a brand name.[quote=hecker]in my opinion, you cannot buy sex from freebies unless you pay for expensive presents.[/quote]not true in my experience. despite my present giving to regulars and occasional fishing with perfume etc., the vast majority of freebies i've had wanted nothing. presents are better for maintenance and what i call "loyalty". make no mistake that i neither expect or want their complete sexual loyalty, they can do what they want when i'm not around... i just expect them to be oncall and available (within reason) when i'm around. it's a system that works for me very well, for years now.[quote=hecker]travel: this is the constant dilemma. should i travel to her city meaning having the chance to date many more girls, or should i pay the expenses for her travel and have her stay with me, sex 100% guaranteed.
both options can work, however paying for her travel leads to 100% results. it is more risky to go to her, in which case you need very good skills, flexibility and speed and some luck as well, which you hunt.[/quote]yes. going to her is unpredictable. usually i've had good results, but sometimes the girl i was communicating with got cold feet. for some girls internet flirting is just an ego-boosting hobby, and many of them are less "free" when you actually show up at their doorstep... in their town... where their friends can see them with you. some girls want to be seen with you, others can't be seen with you. fact of life. that's why i always had plan b, plan c, plan d....
[quote=hecker]whether or not sb should pay for the travel depends on the girl's appearance and behaviour. i find it pointless to pay for a girl in the 5-7 range.[/quote]of course.[quote=hecker]but if the girl is a stunner, a 8-10 then paying for her to travel is worth it.[/quote]in my limited experience with travel paying, absolutely worth it.[quote=hecker]basically you need judgement and experience to have a feeling how much each girl is worth.[/quote]of course.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]In my limited experience with travel paying, absolutely worth it.[/QUOTE]
Agreed - totally worth it. Legalized hostage taking.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]If you're ever in Thailand, you can pick up some really decent quality fakes. Of course the girls *know* that they're fake, but that doesn't faze them if they look good enough. And we're talking $30-40, not $70-100...
Though I had fucked the girl many times before, she gave up her ass for me that night...[/QUOTE]Are you sure you are talking about watches here Pizdyets? )
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Are you sure you are talking about watches here Pizdyets? )[/QUOTE]
LOL! My tastes in Southeast Asian women definitely lean more towards Vietnam and not Thailand... Though I did have one half-Burmese/half-Chinese hottie. Need more experimentation. When's my next vacation again? :)
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Goodbye kitty, hello booty camp![/QUOTE]
Word of caution however, I am positive this only works on those under 30...
Which is perfectly OKAY with me ;)
Girls love them some Hello Kitty, Booty Camp, Apple Bottom jeans... The list goes on....
Guys, a lady with a had a "friends relationship" is now very angry with me because I told a Russian guy about it, and she told me she founds is very irritating, she no longers call me dear or say to me tender words, or expression of affection and even worst whe ignores me now. Any recommendation to improve her mood is welcome? I was not her sponsor neither and she is not a pro, she was a "close friend" and is a normal girl. The only thing I did was commenting this Russian guy about our relationship and I never ever have imagine that she could become so angry for that.
[QUOTE=Strike 69]Guys, a lady with a had a "friends relationship" is now very angry with me because I told a Russian guy about it, and she told me she founds is very irritating, she no longers call me dear or say to me tender words, or expression of affection any recommendation to improve her mood is welcome? I was not her sponsor neither and she is not a pro, she was a "close friend" and is a normal girl. [/QUOTE]If I understand. You were intimate with her, told someone about it (someone she knows? ) and now she is angry and you think this is unreasonable?
I presume that either the Russian guy told her what he knew, or you told her?
I would say that neither a gentleman nor a lady discusses what they do in their bedroom except with perhaps a close and trusted circle of longterm friends.
If she's a pro then it's ok. But if she's a friend, then you shouldn't be kissing and telling. If others want to draw their own conclusions, that is their business.
My suggestion. Tell her that upon further reflection you realize that you behaved poorly and apologize. Tell her that through this experience she has helped you become a better man.
[QUOTE=Fijiman]If I understand. You were intimate with her, told someone about it (someone she knows? ) and now she is angry and you think this is unreasonable?
I presume that either the Russian guy told her what he knew, or you told her?
I would say that neither a gentleman nor a lady discusses what they do in their bedroom except with perhaps a close and trusted circle of longterm friends.
If she's a pro then it's ok. But if she's a friend, then you shouldn't be kissing and telling. If others want to draw their own conclusions, that is their business.
My suggestion. Tell her that upon further reflection you realize that you behaved poorly and apologize. Tell her that through this experience she has helped you become a better man.[/QUOTE]
Well in fact I didn't discuss with the guy what I did with her in bedroom, the only thing I said was telling him that I had a "special relationship" with X girl. Later I told her what I did, it was me not the Russian guy who told her, in fact that guy seemed to not give a hoot about it. After I told her she immediately became furious and really mad with me
She is no longer angry now, I still don't understand what happened.........
From what you've described, my best guess is that she might have misunderstood and thought that you had told him specific details ("and then she does this thing with her tongue!")
Sorry for jumping on you, my bad. Glad it's smoothed over.
Just back from a week long trip to Russia, I have had to exercise a degree of self-criticism. Perhaps others have experienced the same.
The last months have been good to me on the freebie front. So much so in fact, that I have allowed my skillz to deteriorate. Laziness might be a better word.
I have noticed a trend among my recent encounters, both with regular gfs and with new contacts, that reminds me of a simple fact:
We can never become complacent.
When a system of success yields results, it is easy to rely more on the system rather than the persons involved. It is easy to rely on carrying out certain tactical maneuvers rather than allowing the moment, and the passion, to take it's course.
And moreover, it is easy to allow oneself to slip back into the cultural behavior patterns one grew up with, in my case American/European.
In the past week, the following deficiencies come to mind:
1) focus on the girl. Talk about her, ask her questions, figure out who she is. Women need to be treated as individuals and not cattle, even if they do know you have other women.
2) women are not your friends. Once they become your friends, they're not your lovers.
3) sex is secondary to women. Focus first of romance, kissing, atmosphere. The sex will come... and will be better if you do your homework first.
4) opening yourself emotionally to women and can be very positive. However the line between opening yourself and appearing weak is easily crossed. Once crossed, it's a long road back.
5) it is important to be good. It is just as important to be "bad", exciting. Kindness and generosity as previously mentioned are important... just as much so is the occasional "no" and the occasional conflict.
6) women, despite their cultural similarities, are individuals. Adjust accordingly.
7) sometimes sex is just sex. There is no need to blur the boundaries if she doesn't want to.
8) show, not tell. She'll notice without you telling her.
9) almost any woman can be replaced. Sometimes it is better to just let things end. Charity does nobody a favor.
10) scoring new freebies is work. If you don't take pride and passion to work, you need a new job.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]1) focus on the girl. Talk about her, ask her questions, figure out who she is. Women need to be treated as individuals and not cattle, even if they do know you have other women. [/quote] good technique for any situation
[quote]2) women are not your friends. Once they become your friends, they're not your lovers. [/quote] One of the scariest things I've ever read/heard, It rings too tru to deny it, but if its true, I have no hope to ever be with another woman again. Whats the fricken point?
[quote]4) opening yourself emotionally to women and can be very positive. However the line between opening yourself and appearing weak is easily crossed. Once crossed, it's a long road back. [/quote] This is my personal weakness, any hints on how to stay focussed?
[quote]8) show, not tell. She'll notice without you telling her.
9) almost any women can be replaced. Sometimes it is better to just let things end. Charity does nobody a favor. [/quote] This stuff really needs to be expanded upon, and trained to ALL men in the world, I swear if my dad had half of this knowledge and passed on even half of that, I'd have been far better off in life.
It begs the question. What the F* is going on with Men, and Parenting. I vow to train my boys (if/when I get them) in these rules of life, Its what being a friggin parent is about, and the majority of western society seems to have forgotten all about this.
[quote]10) scoring new freebies is work. If you don't take pride and passion to work, you need a new job. [/QUOTE]HA, but if you have to work at it. Its not really a freebee then is it!?
[QUOTE=Solntsa Yada]This is my personal weakness, any hints on how to stay focussed?
HA, but if you have to work at it. Its not really a freebee then is it!?[/QUOTE]If you feel you've got great chemistry with a girl, it can seem very natural to open up to her. It seems almost automatic however that you show your inner side, you'll reveal some weaknesses. Some girls are more "forgiving" of this or even value and appreciate it, particularly European women and most American/Anglo women as well. You open too much or too often with a Russian girl however, she'll start being uncomfortable with something she's been groomed to disrespect. It's a trap. That's truly been my experience. I'm not saying you can't push the boundaries, you can. Girls like issues of soul and heart. They adore sweet words at the appropriate time... actually they absolutely eat it up. But you can't show her outright weakness, lack of conviction or lack of mission. They despise uncertainty.
I've been in a couple of relationships which were in various stages of intimacy, where a real relationship in the sense of partnership had developed, albeit with clearly defined operative roles. As our emotional intimacy had reached a level beyond comfort, I revealed too much, too often. The relationship went on, but things changed.
Eventually, the "sizzle" was gone.
As much as I think I know certain females, I still have occasionally made the mistake of not thinking, or simply forgetting, that they don't play by our rules. I also believe that utilizing this cultural difference and relating on those terms she understands, the Russian system if you will, can be used by us to great affect and is in some ways a nice way to run a relationship. Some ways. Others not. But it certainly is simple in it's structure.
As for freebies being emotionally or effort free, nobody ever claimed that. The only thing freebie means is that you didn't pay her for sex in the traditional sense of the word "pay".
Absolutely, you'd be regarded as a лох, a guy they disrespect and use for their purposes. In Russia, the man is supposed to be in charge, rather than tell her stories about his emotional state.
For those who speak Russian, go to the Smotri website, watch a girl's broadcast and see how the guys in the chat there talk to the women, and what women are willing to accept. It will open your eyes. But those who speak Russian well enough to understand probably already know :)
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]If you feel you've got great chemistry with a girl, it can seem very natural to open up to her. It seems almost automatic however that you show your inner side, you'll reveal some weaknesses. Some girls are more "forgiving" of this or even value and appreciate it, particularly European women and most American/Anglo women as well. You open too much or too often with a Russian girl however, she'll start being uncomfortable with something she's been groomed to disrespect. It's a trap. That's truly been my experience. I'm not saying you can't push the boundaries, you can. Girls like issues of soul and heart. They adore sweet words at the appropriate time... actually they absolutely eat it up. But you can't show her outright weakness, lack of conviction or lack of mission. They despise uncertainty. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SlutLover]For those who speak Russian, go to the Smotri website[/QUOTE]Cool link, thanks!
I was having a date with a girl I have known for about three years, she didn't interact with foreigners too much so her english skills were rusty. So I invited another female friend of mine who sometimes translates for me. The girl I was with had found a local man about 2 or so years ago and became very serious with him. The topic came up about if I was in his place if I would allow her to go out to meet a male 'friend' such as myself. I told her that if a girl belongs to me I expect her to act that way. That to ask such a thing would be unacceptable. The look of lust and approval on both the girls’ faces was quite self satisfying.
The translator who is also very interested in me has told me a number of times that I would be perfect for her once I stop fuc king around with sluts. I said well, if I’m fucking around with so many sluts doesn’t that make me as bad as them, a male sl ut myself? She said, no, it is different for a man.
Doc,
Excellent advice, I imagine you could apply it to most women, anywhere. Sounds like you went through some changes this last trip. Is it possible a single girl inspired all this elightenment? Or was it a combination of factors?
[QUOTE]it is important to be good. It is just as important to be "bad", exciting. Kindness and generosity as previously mentioned are important... just as much so is the occasional "no" and the occasional conflict.[/QUOTE]This has also been my experience. Never back down from a confrontation with a slavic female, not just for your own sense of self-respect, but because it's important to her. She wants you to fight back. Life is tough and she wants a strong man who will stand like a brick wall at her back. If you will not even fight for yourself, then how can she believe you will stand by her when she needs you? Kindness and generosity go hand-in-hand with strength; any idiot can be mean and any fool can squander his money, but it takes a strong man to be kind and a kind man to be generous.
[QUOTE]opening yourself emotionally to women and can be very positive. However the line between opening yourself and appearing weak is easily crossed. Once crossed, it's a long road back.[/QUOTE]How true. I'm not sure the line is even visible with a Russian woman. She wants a strong man; someone she can respect, count on and be proud to stand next to. In short, she wants her man to be, well... a man. This is a new concept for most western men, particularly those who live in the U.S. It's tough being the man; making all the decisions, enabling everone's desires, fulfilling everyone's expectations, but, it's a burden we must carry, lest we begin that slide down the slippery slope to women's liberation. :) The wonderful thing about slavic women is that they are willing to let us be men. This is the gift that they give to us, if we are wise enough to recognize it. You're right, opening yourself emotionally to a woman can be very positive, but, in the case of a Russian woman, you should wait until she is absolutely certain of the quality of your character, and that could take years, maybe decades.
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]I said well, if I’m fucking around with so many sluts doesn’t that make me as bad as them, a male sl ut myself? She said, no, it is different for a man.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I've heard that from a few Russian girls too. But funny enough, I've heard it from a couple of American girls too. Frankly, a sexual, self-assured and powerful man is attractive to women in any culture, any country (well, maybe not the Vatican - but then again...)
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]has told me a number of times that I would be perfect for her once I stop fuc king around with sluts. I said well, if I’m fucking around with so many sluts doesn’t that make me as bad as them, a male sl ut myself? She said, no, it is different for a man.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Pizdyets]Yes, I've heard that from a few Russian girls too. But funny enough, I've heard it from a couple of American girls too. Frankly, a sexual, self-assured and powerful man is attractive to women in any culture, any country (well, maybe not the Vatican - but then again...)[/QUOTE]
True enough, pretty much every girl you are casually fucking, or even in a relationship with, will know that you are fucking other girls. Some are quite frankly turned on by it. It is a sort of confirmation for them as well.
You are good enough that women are fucking you: she made a good choice
She is good enough that you are fucking her: she made the cut
Nonetheless, they don't like it rubbed in their faces. In moments of weakness I've made the mistake a few times and although it rarely led to direct conflict, it did set some currents in motion I didn't like.
However, the higher up the female food chain the girl is, the less likely she is to accept this. Her reputation is at stake as well... and in cities like Moscow, she has numerous choices herself.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]However, the higher up the female food chain the girl is, the less likely she is to accept this. Her reputation is at stake as well... and in cities like Moscow, she has numerous choices herself.[/QUOTE]
Would agree in general, but I've found there's an inflection point when you go [I]really[/I] high up the food chain, to the self-made entrepeneur/businesswoman. This girl doesn't need no sugar daddy. She makes her own decisions in and out of the boardroom, yet still craves a strong man to dominate her in the bedroom, balancing the anima with the animus.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Would agree in general, but I've found there's an inflection point when you go [I]really[/I] high up the food chain, to the self-made entrepeneur/businesswoman. This girl doesn't need no sugar daddy. She makes her own decisions in and out of the boardroom, yet still craves a strong man to dominate her in the bedroom, balancing the anima with the animus.[/QUOTE]True enough and I am speaking about the kind of woman who doesn't "need" anything from you per se, still in most cases she just doesn't like to be treated like one "of the stock". My mistake has been making this fact too obvious to some, out of pure carelessness.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Doc,
Excellent advice, I imagine you could apply it to most women, anywhere. Sounds like you went through some changes this last trip. Is it possible a single girl inspired all this elightenment? Or was it a combination of factors?
This has also been my experience. Never back down from a confrontation with a slavic female, not just for your own sense of self-respect, but because it's important to her. She wants you to fight back. Life is tough and she wants a strong man who will stand like a brick wall at her back. If you will not even fight for yourself, then how can she believe you will stand by her when she needs you? Kindness and generosity go hand-in-hand with strength; any idiot can be mean and any fool can squander his money, but it takes a strong man to be kind and a kind man to be generous.
How true. I'm not sure the line is even visible with a Russian woman. She wants a strong man; someone she can respect, count on and be proud to stand next to. In short, she wants her man to be, well... a man. This is a new concept for most western men, particularly those who live in the U.S. It's tough being the man; making all the decisions, enabling everone's desires, fulfilling everyone's expectations, but, it's a burden we must carry, lest we begin that slide down the slippery slope to women's liberation. :) The wonderful thing about slavic women is that they are willing to let us be men. This is the gift that they give to us, if we are wise enough to recognize it. You're right, opening yourself emotionally to a woman can be very positive, but, in the case of a Russian woman, you should wait until she is absolutely certain of the quality of your character, and that could take years, maybe decades.[/QUOTE]Strav,
Actually my lament is the result of some soul-searching (yes we mongers do that sometimes) I've had to do following my most recent trip and to a certain extent, my last few trips.
To quote NIN: the Downward Spiral.
Essentially 2 things have occured simultaneously:
1) I haven't been getting the response I've desired and been accustomed to from both existing girls and new girls
2) I have lacked the motivation and/or finesse to get what I want
It isn't one particular girl, although there are 3 that I particularly like I can think of off hand that have triggered my realization.
I've been in the mongering/girlfriend management business for more than a decade, and as such I am no stranger to both hot streaks and droughts and am well aware of some of the hazards of mongering:
1) falling in love/emotional crisis
2) time mismanagement
3) cost control
4) friendship maintenance
5) emotional attrition
6) complacency/laziness
Last week I spent 3 nights each in St.Pete and Moscow, meeting both some existing gf contacts, fresh gf contacts and new girls. I did not participate in p4p, due to lack of time and motivation, not to mention the prohibitive costs of the take home/outcall variety, which I vastly prefer over salons/in call.
In St.Pete I was with existing gfs Marina (23), Julia (24) and Natasha (19), as well as meeting a cute new 19-year old contact Anastasiya, whom I managed to only kiss after some afternoon sushi.
In Moscow I was with existing gfs Dasha (23), Katya (19), Anna (23), Vika (30), Sasha (24), Olessia (20), Masha (25) as well as 31-year old Tania, a new contact with amazing tits I managed to kiss and suck before she ran off into the night, thankfully just in time for the afore-mentioned Katya to show up for a sleep-over.
It is not that I wasn't getting enough sex, nor can I complain about the quality. It was the response in some of the girls that bothered me.
I'd noticed following trends, certainly not among all, but among some:
1) lack of commitment to meet/scheduling problems
2) apparent suspicion of my true intent in our relations
3) disappointment in status/direction of relation and/or my person
Realizing that such trends existed, I sought the reasons for them and came to the conclusions listed in my previous post. Essentially, I realized that I had been making mistakes in my relationship management, that I was slipping. Curiously, this slippage was due to contradictory factors, both my lack of motivation/commitment to the cause (or to the particular relationship/girl) as well as my own laziness/comfort in the relationships, which had become too lax.
In any case, I am in the process of collecting myself and setting impulses to restart solid into 2009. I've already taken some measures which have shown positive affect. Essentially, I've hardened up... of course without losing the human/soul touch that the girls love. I've just returned it to it's shell and not left it hanging around my neck. I hope that made sense.
Again, complacency kills.[QUOTE=Stravinsky] If you will not even fight for yourself, then how can she believe you will stand by her when she needs you? Kindness and generosity go hand-in-hand with strength; any idiot can be mean and any fool can squander his money, but it takes a strong man to be kind and a kind man to be generous.[/QUOTE]Well put. This is being applied to Marina as I write. I need to bring her back in line.[QUOTE=Stravinsky] This is the gift that they give to us, if we are wise enough to recognize it. You're right, opening yourself emotionally to a woman can be very positive, but, in the case of a Russian woman, you should wait until she is absolutely certain of the quality of your character, and that could take years, maybe decades.[/QUOTE]Decades we don't have... usually. In a world of 3-day, 3-week and 3-month relationships the dynamics change somewhat of course. The danger of a long-term relationship is taking it too far and ending up in a train wreck. Been there done that a couple of years ago, which was a valuable lesson.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Actually my lament is the result of some soul-searching (yes we mongers do that sometimes) I've had to do following my most recent trip and to a certain extent, my last few trips.[/QUOTE]
Doc, I continue to admire your ability to successfully juggle a dozen devs simultaneously, but you are, alas, but one man. The most I've juggled at one time is 6. But that was spread across 4 countries, and yet you have that many in Moscow alone. Of course maintaining (and scheduling!) that kind of stable takes an extraordinary amount of effort, and there's no wonder that you're a little burned out by it all. Maybe you should try pruning back a bit until you have a chance to recoup?
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Would agree in general, but I've found there's an inflection point when you go [I]really[/I] high up the food chain, to the self-made entrepeneur/businesswoman. This girl doesn't need no sugar daddy. She makes her own decisions in and out of the boardroom, yet still craves a strong man to dominate her in the bedroom, balancing the anima with the animus.[/QUOTE]
Ahhhh true enough, but the trait you describe is not exclusive to Slavic women. This is where it becomes universal. Women who command respect in business and politics the world over exhibit what you describe. They have achieved success in a man's world and and special treatment on the "playing field" will threaten to diminish their achievement. At this level, they despise woman's lib and want to be treated like equals..... except in the bedroom. But the twist comes in how things proceed in public on a date. In America, a date with a powerful woman may end with her INSISTING to pay for the tab (or at least splitting it) and making a show of flashing credit cards. I once had a date with a Moscow entrepreneur who handed me an envelope with cash when I picked her up at her apartment. She said,"it's my turn to pay for dinner". In private, she wanted to demonstrate her equality, but in public, she wanted to be seen as being "taken care of by a strong man".
Fucking complicated.
[QUOTE=Jake993]In America, a date with a powerful woman may end with her INSISTING to pay for the tab (or at least splitting it) and making a show of flashing credit cards.[/QUOTE]
I've dated my share of powerful women, and I've never had that happen. Maybe it's just that they know I have the cash, but I've never gotten more than a perfunctory "um, can I help with that?" even from women who make over 2x what I do. That said, I have received some pretty kick-ass gifts. :)
[QUOTE]I once had a date with a Moscow entrepreneur who handed me an envelope with cash when I picked her up at her apartment. She said,"it's my turn to pay for dinner". In private, she wanted to demonstrate her equality, but in public, she wanted to be seen as being "taken care of by a strong man".
Fucking complicated.[/QUOTE]
It's not complicated at all, Jake. Just PM me her "coordinates" and I'll show ya how it's done. ;)
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Doc, I continue to admire your ability to successfully juggle a dozen devs simultaneously, but you are, alas, but one man. The most I've juggled at one time is 6. But that was spread across 4 countries, and yet you have that many in Moscow alone. Of course maintaining (and scheduling!) that kind of stable takes an extraordinary amount of effort, and there's no wonder that you're a little burned out by it all. Maybe you should try pruning back a bit until you have a chance to recoup?[/QUOTE]
Ever notice that when you plug too many appliances (electronic devices) into a power strip that there is this funny smell just before the fuse blows? The Russian devushka is known to posses an extraordinarily keen sense of smell. ;)
Skank, I think you are like that guy on the Ed Sullivan show who used to spin the plates on the sticks. He's good at it and can keep on going for as long as he needs to. But after while, it all becomes a bit routine and it gets boring. One plate starts to wobble and......... you get the idea. OK maybe not the perfect comparison but you get what I mean.
You are juggling a lot of girls - why? Because you can. Bravo. I'm no dating psychologist but this is all getting a bit too routine to you and the girls can smell your insincerity (as minuscule as it may be).
Maybe Pizdyets is right when he suggests that you pare back your volume and regain a little focus. Obviously, your silver tongue has gotten you far, but I wonder if the girls are detecting the slightest degree of indifference, that even you are not aware of yet, resulting in "flakey" behavior on their part?
Just an observation from the peanut gallery......
[QUOTE=Pizdyets] That said, I have received some pretty kick-ass gifts.)[/QUOTE]Gifts? gifts? You get gifts? Sheesh, I never get any gifts.
Speaking of gifts, guys do you think it is a good a idea to shower a Russian girl with many many gifts? For example in case she goes with a Russian man she probably will never get the same treatment from him.
[QUOTE=Jake993]You are juggling a lot of girls - why? Because you can. Bravo. I'm no dating psychologist but this is all getting a bit too routine to you and the girls can smell your insincerity (as minuscule as it may be).
Maybe Pizdyets is right when he suggests that you pare back your volume and regain a little focus. Obviously, your silver tongue has gotten you far, but I wonder if the girls are detecting the slightest degree of indifference, that even you are not aware of yet, resulting in "flakey" behavior on their part?
Just an observation from the peanut gallery......[/QUOTE]That's what I wrote in my post as well... they are definitely tuned into it, both through their keen sense of "smell" and my own clumsiness.
I need to reboot.[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Doc, I continue to admire your ability to successfully juggle a dozen devs simultaneously, but you are, alas, but one man. The most I've juggled at one time is 6. But that was spread across 4 countries, and yet you have that many in Moscow alone. Of course maintaining (and scheduling!) that kind of stable takes an extraordinary amount of effort, and there's no wonder that you're a little burned out by it all. Maybe you should try pruning back a bit until you have a chance to recoup?[/QUOTE]I'm overextended in Moscow for sure.
I've taken some measures to keep things under control. For example, I've decided (not sure if I can maintain this) to make Ukraine a p4p market for me. Besides the existing contacts, I'm not even going to try to meet new girlfriends there. Going to keep it strictly p4p, or short-term sponsorship. As odd as it may sound coming from me, the idea of a strict ho-john relationship sounds quite refreshing.
As for Moscow and St.Pete, I've got considerably more contacts/girlfriends than I listed below. Literally dozens. In some ways, it is out of control. You are right though, I need to trim the roster. It is more difficult than it sounds however, as some of the girls I've known for years. I don't like the idea of toning down the relationship from a sexual one to friendship however. I have a few non-sexual relations with girls in Moscow, but only in those cases where I don't find the girl particularly attractive or there is some other reason to keep sex off-limits, such as business or her being in a relationship. Obviously in most cases such non-sexual relations are low priority and doomed to fade out with time. If I have the choice between dinner, chat and a blowjob I'm going to choose that over dinner, chat and a peck on the cheek.
Trimming the roster is only part of the problem however, as of course I am always trying to add new girls TO the roster. Rookies. Fresh talent. In many ways, that is the ENTIRE point of mongering. Getting some strange.
Thankfully my sub-conscious has things better in control than my libido. I've purposely avoided using mamba in the last few weeks. I've not been clubbing or club trawling as before. I've allowed some relations to fade into obscurity.
Quite simply, I need to prioritise the stock and prune it as you say.
Thanks for the moral fire support.
[QUOTE=Strike 69]Speaking of gifts, guys do you think it is a good a idea to shower a Russian girl with many many gifts? For example in case she goes with a Russian man she probably will never get the same treatment from him.[/QUOTE]It's a terrible idea to SHOWER a girl with gifts, not to mention prohibitively expensive, but gift-giving is a part of their culture and can be an effective tool.
BTW, they give gifts in return and not just their pussies.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
Trimming the roster is only part of the problem however, as of course I am always trying to add new girls TO the roster. Rookies. Fresh talent. In many ways, that is the ENTIRE point of mongering. Getting some strange.
Thankfully my sub-conscious has things better in control than my libido. I've purposely avoided using mamba in the last few weeks. I've not been clubbing or club trawling as before. I've allowed some relations to fade into obscurity.
Quite simply, I need to prioritise the stock and prune it as you say.
Thanks for the moral fire support.[/QUOTE]
As a personal favour to you, I would be willing to take a couple of those girls off your hands, as I am sure others here would be.
You should have a liquidation sale - trading bottles of scotch for used phone numbers....
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]That said, I have received some pretty kick-ass gifts. :)
[/QUOTE]And you told me you bought the Bentley Continental GT with "cash money"?
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]BTW, they give gifts in return and not just their pussies.[/QUOTE]
Ironically, one of the best gifts I received was from a country girl I flew in for a fuck-filled 3 day holiday in the big city (we'd discussed that earlier in this forum). On my way out to the office, I'd handed her the equivalent of $300 in spending money. When I got home that evening I discovered that she'd spent the entire amount on a shirt for me (she knew I'm a sucker for nice clothes, especially if it's from one of my favorite designers). Have to admit that it choked me up a bit, even if it was my own money.
But you're right, Doc, the whole point of mongering is the strange. Once it's routine, it's not mongering anymore. It's just that you've added another wife (or two dozen, in your case!)
In my opinion it is counterproductive to keep the same girl more than a year(or 6 months).It is better to renew the stock all the time.New girls throw the old ones away.However if you stay there,then maybe it is worth keeping old acquaintances.
For me every hour you spend with one girl,is one hour you miss with another girl.
Nothing complicated about it at all. Avoid. :)
[QUOTE=Jake993]Fucking complicated.[/QUOTE]
Dr S, I know your pain, the proverbial kid in the candy store. I think the solution is just to have one main girl (two?) open to dating girls on the side (together or solo). I actually have two of those in Kyiv but I haven't been able to get them to accept each other, probably a bit of the queen bee syndrome I would think. Mamba or Flirt as I know it is indeed a sweet trap. It's easily for me on an average day to get the phone numbers of 5 girls. But to what end is indeed the question.
At the risk of publicly impugning my manhood, I have to confess that I don't have a clue as to what I would do with all the women Doc has on the line. I mean, I have a real good idea of what I would do with 1 or 2, and I can sure imagine what would be possible with 3, 4, or 5; beyond that, the image begins to blur. But 30 or 40 women at the same time? That defies comprehension. At least, my comprehension.
There is an old saying, "we are, by our possessions, possessed". When it comes to сехс в Большом Городе (sex in the city), I guess the question is: at what point do we mange the dyeffki in our lives, and at what point do they begin to manage us?
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]At the risk of publicly impugning my manhood, I have to confess that I don't have a clue as to what I would do with all the women Doc has on the line. I mean, I have a real good idea of what I would do with 1 or 2, and I can sure imagine what would be possible with 3, 4, or 5; beyond that, the image begins to blur. But 30 or 40 women at the same time? That defies comprehension. At least, my comprehension.
There is an old saying, "we are, by our possessions, possessed". When it comes to сехс в Большом Городе (sex in the city), I guess the question is: at what point do we mange the dyeffki in our lives, and at what point do they begin to manage us?[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Cruiser D]But to what end is indeed the question.[/QUOTE]
I've already changed some things and have a better grip on things. Nonetheless, I realise that I am constantly at risk. Unfortunately for me, I've never been good at letting go or breaking up... so trimming the roster isn't going to be effortless.[QUOTE=Hecker]In my opinion it is counterproductive to keep the same girl more than a year(or 6 months).It is better to renew the stock all the time.New girls throw the old ones away.However if you stay there,then maybe it is worth keeping old acquaintances.
For me every hour you spend with one girl,is one hour you miss with another girl.[/QUOTE]In theory that makes sense Hecker, repeatedly visiting one city however, "unfortunately" over time relationships develop and some are very valuable for me. I can't just throw them all away. Over time, they collect into dozens. Sometimes it is a great advantage... I never sleep alone in Moscow unless I want to. The disadvantages... well, I've already detailed them.
Lord Krishna, the lover of milk maids, once multiplied himself a thousand fold so that each one of the thousand girls thought he was spending the night with her alone.
Now he had something.
[QUOTE=Ash1001]Lord Krishna, the lover of milk maids, once multiplied himself a thousand fold so that each one of the thousand girls thought he was spending the night with her alone.
Now he had something.[/QUOTE]
Hmmmm....... Lord Skank. Sort of has a nice ring to it.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Ahhhh true enough, but the trait you describe is not exclusive to Slavic women. This is where it becomes universal. Women who command respect in business and politics the world over exhibit what you describe. They have achieved success in a man's world and and special treatment on the "playing field" will threaten to diminish their achievement. At this level, they despise woman's lib and want to be treated like equals..... except in the bedroom. But the twist comes in how things proceed in public on a date. In America, a date with a powerful woman may end with her INSISTING to pay for the tab (or at least splitting it) and making a show of flashing credit cards. I once had a date with a Moscow entrepreneur who handed me an envelope with cash when I picked her up at her apartment. She said,"it's my turn to pay for dinner". In private, she wanted to demonstrate her equality, but in public, she wanted to be seen as being "taken care of by a strong man"[/QUOTE]
Isn't it just plain emasculating being with a woman richer or more powerful than you? What sort of net worth are we talking about?
Aren't Russian women like that usually 40+ (at least) and hire tight butted male strippers to be their boyfriends?
I've been looking for a super model, gourmet cook with a large trust fund for years, what’s so emasculating about that? And I'm sure if I ever do find one I'll want two. :)
[QUOTE=Ash1001]Lord Krishna, the lover of milk maids, once multiplied himself a thousand fold so that each one of the thousand girls thought he was spending the night with her alone.
Now he had something.[/QUOTE]That's brilliant. I do believe I have a new idol!
"The stories of Krishna appear across a broad spectrum of Hindu philosophical and theological traditions. They portray him in various roles: a god-child, a prankster, a model lover, a divine hero and the Supreme Being."
[QUOTE=Ash1001]Isn't it just plain emasculating being with a woman richer or more powerful than you? What sort of net worth are we talking about?
Aren't Russian women like that usually 40+ (at least) and hire tight butted male strippers to be their boyfriends?[/QUOTE]
Emasculating? No, not really. Rather liberating actually. But you need to be pretty comfortable with your own masculinity or it CAN be pretty un-nerving. And yes, this babe was 41. Former dancer. Yikes - I would stack her body (and skills) up against many girls half her age. Cripes - she's STILL 10 years younger than me so I guess it's all relative.
Net worth? Not really sure. She owns a real estate business including a few dozen apartments. Never got down to comparing balance sheet and income statements but judging from the crowd she runs with and the private clubs she belongs to, clothes, jewelry, watches, apartment, vacations, she's got a few kopecks. Oh - not to mention the E-class MB and driver.
But let's not mice words here. This was by no means an ideal situation. I was clearly a distraction for her and a fling for a few weekends. Kinda fun to sample life on the other side of the equation for a change. Give it a try some time.
Well if it works for you, that's great. I'm personally not sure if I could handle being the entertainment rather than the entertained (although it may not be as cut and dried as that). I've got too used to little college girls :)
It's funny though that when these women get married they pretty much always insist on someone even older and richer than themselves. The feminine desire for a protector always wins!
BTW - you said former dancer - so, by implication, a woman set up by her ex husband?
[quote=jake993]uh, not that kind of dancer. i meant ballet - when she was young. she was an investment banker before starting a real estate biz. take a peek. not bad for an old gal.....[/quote]
if the rest is as hot as her legs, the boy did well(!)
[QUOTE=Fox7717]If the rest is as hot as her legs, the boy did well(!)[/QUOTE] Sometimes it's good to be the distraction.
Is there any chance these women will sponsor a guy? Like, pay my rent in Tverskaya? :)
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]I've been looking for a super model, gourmet cook with a large trust fund for years, what’s so emasculating about that? And I'm sure if I ever do find one I'll want two. :)[/QUOTE]I'm looking for that elusive "old fashioned Soviet Era" SUGAR Babushka!!
[QUOTE=Ash1001]Is there any chance these women will sponsor a guy? Like, pay my rent in Tverskaya? :)[/QUOTE]Before the crash, probably yes.
They are called "Alfons".
But now, the most Alfons can hope for is a dinner, chocolate and some nice words.
Life sucks, don't it? :)
Okay, I'm not fussy, I'll take anywhere in the Garden Ring!
Seriously, times must be tough if a multiple oligarch divorcee can't keep her little Alfons in the style to which he's become accustomed..
Any experience from you guys with an internet dating scammer?
After reading many stories, I was aware when I received a letter from a woman who "wanted to meet me". She started with nice and innocent pictures, then grew up to almost naked ones when she turned to be in love with me and asked 400 euros for a tourist visa to visit me in the US.
This is a business really growing up in Russia. Be careful guys!
[QUOTE=TJnightwalker]Any experience from you guys with an internet dating scammer?
After reading many stories, I was aware when I received a letter from a woman who "wanted to meet me". She started with nice and innocent pictures, then grew up to almost naked ones when she turned to be in love with me and asked 400 euros for a tourist visa to visit me in the US.
This is a business really growing up in Russia. Be careful guys![/QUOTE]
You just don't understand, Nightwalker. She needs the 400 euros to open the safety deposit box full of millions of dollars that was left there from her (recently deceased) cousin. Of course you will need to advance her some more cash for the roundtrip to Lagos, but think of the windfall you'll be having.
Seriously, this racket is nothing new. The cost for a US visa application is $131 in Russia, not $500, and there's no requirement for having a minimum balance of money in any bank account (which could, of course, be forged in any case).
In general, if you want to increase the liklihood of an earnest relationship online, [B]you[/B] should initiate the conversation, not the other way around. I don't have the patience, personally, but lots of guys here swear by mamba.ru and other websites for hooking up, and the girls are usually legit.
Udachi!
[QUOTE=TJnightwalker]Any experience from you guys with an internet dating scammer?
After reading many stories, I was aware when I received a letter from a woman who "wanted to meet me". She started with nice and innocent pictures, then grew up to almost naked ones when she turned to be in love with me and asked 400 euros for a tourist visa to visit me in the US.
This is a business really growing up in Russia. Be careful guys![/QUOTE]Jeezuz TJ... no offense, but she's.... not what we think of when we think of "Russian women". She looks like she's from Leeds.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Jeezuz TJ... no offense, but she's.... not what we think of when we think of "Russian women". She looks like she's from Leeds.[/QUOTE]
I suppose "she" wanted the fotki to look believable!
Leeds... LOL... Better than Newcastle though!
I'm planning on spending a year in Moscow, and (hopefully) hooking up with some Russian women while there. I heard that most women in Russia don't use birth control, is this true? What would the consequences be if I happened to get a girl pregnant? Would I basically be screwed, or would I be able to get out of the situation rather easily? Any advice is much appreciated.
I'm planning on going to Moscow for a year, and hopefully hooking up with some Russian women while there. One question, I hear that most women in Russia don't use birth control. If one was to get pregnant, what would the consequences be for me? Would I basically be screwed or would I be able to walk away from the situation relatively easily? Any experiences/advice would be much appreciated.
P.S. I'm talking more about just regular girls here, not prostitutes, but if anybody has advice regarding them you can share it.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]In general, if you want to increase the liklihood of an earnest relationship online, [B]you[/B] should initiate the conversation, not the other way around. I don't have the patience, personally, but lots of guys here swear by mamba.ru and other websites for hooking up, and the girls are usually legit.
Udachi![/QUOTE]I wouldn't go so far to say the girls on Mamba are generally legit, it is also crawling with pros and girls looking for sponsorship. If anything, I think Russian girls are becoming more and more whorish, especially the younger ones. Not necessarily asking for money, but just interested in guys who spend first, play later.
Coming from the West, I've always been the play first, spend later type. Like spending is more of a reward than an entrance fee.
But the girls are legit in the sense that the pictures are generally real and that they won't try to trick you out of money. They'll just lose interest if they don't see a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It takes some work... and patience... to filter through the BS.
I really don't have the patience or time and am not as active on the inet as before. Meeting girls in clubs and bars is what I like, although it also has both it's up and downsides.
Off to meet my date now.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I think Russian girls are becoming more and more whorish, especially the younger ones.[/QUOTE]
It didn't used to be like that. An entire generation of Russian girls has grown up with fast and easy money (at least in Moscow). It will be interesting to see how they adapt to a "normal" life.
zhizn prodolzhatsya...
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]It didn't used to be like that. An entire generation of Russian girls has grown up with fast and easy money (at least in Moscow). It will be interesting to see how they adapt to a "normal" life.
zhizn prodolzhatsya...[/QUOTE]No it didn't and I am still Russian women's number one fan. But especially on Mamba and social dating sites, there is a negative culture developing. Muscovites especially, but really in all cities, there are tons of girls who live off of other peoples money. It's not that they are all sponsored or something like that, it is just that so much loose money has been floating around and as you know the Russians love to spend money and show their wealth, so girls have developed a skewed relationship to money.
I am interested to see how it will pan out in the next year or two. They're spoiled for sure... but damn do they look fantastic all dolled up... :)
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank].....They're spoiled for sure... but damn do they look fantastic all dolled up... :)[/QUOTE]
My 2 crowns....czech cause from 1 january slovakia will get euro too LOL....
4 years ago the russians were about 15-20% more sexy than polish,czech and slovak girls that I know very well and they were almost at same level "serious" and at the same level spoiled.... from the last experience, included provincies too, I saw as even if russian girls keep on be a bit more sexy, and maybe passionate too, than their eastern sisters, now they are TOO MUCH spoiled, too much into money.... Doc said it perfect, they want first money and then play, I'd say they want money and (maybe) later play...
I think for one that no go to Russia for business but only for mongering, it does no more worth it as before....much less troubles, much cheaper if I will travelling a bit less and where I do not need to get a visa....not to mention easier to get a "relationship" and no problem to get them travelling to my home with no visa-problems.....
We will see, I am curious to see how the 2009 will change our hobby and most of all where we all will finish to go to make our spending money still worth it....
What happens if you get one pregnant?
Has this happened to anyone?
You set up a monthly payment to provide some financial support and have a reason to visit Russia more often. Around $1500 a month should suffice and some extra a couple of times a year for the kids essentials.
Unless you plan to marry the girl this should keep things right, otherwise you should have paid by the hour and not taken the risk.
Yes, I'm speaking from experience.
What happens if you get one pregnant?
Has this happened to anyone? [/QUOTE]
Damn, so you can't just escape from the situation? What if I just leave Russia, she'd have no way of getting hold of me. But I was just asking, that never actually happened.
[QUOTE=Vic Blayze]Damn, so you can't just escape from the situation? What if I just leave Russia, she'd have no way of getting hold of me. But I was just asking, that never actually happened.[/QUOTE]Of course you can just leave Russia, but you get a girl pregnant, you deal with the consequences. Don't be an ass.
i’ve always been a proponent of the freebie scene. there is nothing more satisfying than the moment when a girl who had before been a stranger spreads her legs for you, and allows you into her most intimate of areas. it isn’t merely a physical act, but a symbolic gesture of both trust and affection… at least that is the romantic version.
ok, well sometimes it is just physical, at least in terms of drunken post-club one night stands. there may be affection and trust involved, but most likely her judgement and her feelings were affected by alcohol and club atmosphere. not a bad thing, but hardly romance in the traditional sense.
as we know however, the ons has taken backseat to a regrettably more civilized 2-3 date system. although the ons does occasionally still occur, it is noticeably less common to drag a girl out of the club that you met an hour or two earlier for a poke back in your apartment than it was 5 years ago. a lot of things have changed in russia (or ukraine for that matter) that make the club pull increasingly rare.
the freebie scene remains very interesting however, as it is ludicrous to argue that screwing freebies and screwing pros is the same. it simply isn’t.
it is a different kind of relationship, a different kind of sex and a different kind of emotion, a different affection. a pro gfe, no matter how pristine and perfect simply isn’t the same as having a girl screw you because she wants to and not because you are helping her pay her way through cosmetology school.
that isn’t to say pro sex is less valuable, it is simply different.
the benefits of a gf vary from girl to girl and guy to guy, but it usually means honest, interesting conversation, repeat performances, real passion and affection, booty calls, bareback sex if you want it and low running costs, although costs undeniably exist in one form or another.
as we know freebies will cost you money sooner or later, whether it is going to restaurants or clubs in which you will usually cover all charges, buying occasional presents or taking her on holiday. that is the price of maintaining a relationship, as it would be anywhere.
but what are the benefits of paying outright, the cash for sex exchange? we all know the famous (and accurate) adage: “you don’t pay a pro for sex, you pay her to leave afterwards”. the serial daters among us will know how valuable that can be indeed.
as i have been more than a bit fed up with the patience and emotional stress associated with the dating scene and having been a bit worn out maintaining more than a 2 dozen relationships in moscow and elsewhere while simultaneously still not accepting moscow prices for sex, i decided to conduct an experiment. not only an experiment in examining the benefits of paying for sex upfront vs. chasing freebies, but simultaneously conducting a litmus test of the early affects of the looming economic crisis.
i decided to find the semi-pro, that elusive creature of circumstance. a girl who is not a prostitute, but for whatever reason is willing to screw a stranger for money.
i found a candidate on mamba.
prologue.
i’d spent the previous 2 evenings at hot dog’s, and although i had found a few girls that seemed very much my taste and very fuckable, we couldn’t even really come close to agreeing on price.
there was blonde kristina, a girl that any infrequent visitor to hd will have seen. she positions herself at the corner of the bar when you enter and in contrast to her sisters of ill repute, will approach candidates if they look the part. i look the part. she seems to have some sort of status there, as there are invariably other girls hanging with her and in a sense, seemingly following her lead.
there are several black girls working at hd now as well, including 3 i found attractive. nonetheless, screwing a black girl in moscow is one oddity i haven’t yet been intrigued by, despite hd’s lineup.
and there were several others, although no uzbekis or kazakhis.
going into hd i’d set a limit of 8000 rubles for 2-3 hours, which i felt was quite reasonable. in fact, i’d been so clever to only bring 10.000 rubles, to ensure that the alk didn’t get the better of me.
8000 rubles is roughly 220 € or $300, which is medium range pricing in moscow, but the absolute pinnacle of my budget for sex. in fact, i’m not even sure i’ve ever spent that much before. i believe my previous “record” was $250, but i was feeling like mr.big wallet tonight, even if reality put me in the category of mr.miserly monger.
the girls i spoke too opened with a laughable $600 offer before offering me the incredibly lame “super special discount because i like you” to $500, so there was obviously a difference of opinion on what their sex was worth and on what a “real man” should be able to pay. despite my horniness and the sparse pickings in terms of potential customers, we just couldn’t come to an agreement, the closest offer being 8000 rubles for an hour, which is just silly.
as jake recently posted, you can escape nf with a girl in tow for 10.000 rubles, so why pay a hd girl 12-15.000? besides, once one begins haggling about price in silly ways, there is not even an inkling of faux romance left in the air. it becomes pathetic and degrading for everybody. so despite their best efforts at wooing me, i left the club alone 2 nights in a row, relatively early. perhaps their prices went down after 3 a.m. or so, but i don’t see the point of staying an hour or two more than i wanted, just to get drunker and only to save $150 or so and most probably to enjoy the sex less due to tiredness or drunkeness. kristina and co. might get my company someday, but not at those prices. besides, i think kristina and co. are going to be pretty shocked when the crisis really hits moscow, which should be about february.
still, i had a different plan, a more interesting one. a crisis-inspired one.
the mamba girl was named ksenia, a blonde of about 25. her pictures on mamba looked good and after exchanging telephone numbers and some prodding by sms, she agreed to meet me on her lunch break away from her job at an investment bank, which was conveniently located near pushkin square.
an investment bank. hmm. not exactly the movers and shakers these days.
meeting on pushkin square in a small café about 1pm, we talked about life, the economy and her experience in moscow. originally from novokuznetsk, she had moved to moscow a few years back. of course it was better than novokuznetsk, which she described as a shithole, but still… life in moscow was … tough.
she was very pretty. clean, fresh siberian face with deep blue eyes. slightly tanned, glowing skin. immaculately dressed and a good conversationalist. walking to the café in the rain, i had seen that a man had offered her the protection of his umbrella. he entered the café with her, and i noticed he was gravely disappointed to see her meet me in the café and glared at me throughout the lunch as he sat alone. perfect. it’s the little joys in life, right?
i genuinely liked her. had i not been on a mission and booked full through the rest of the week with regular gfs, i might have tried to traditionally woo her into bed. agree to meet later. dinner. back to my pad for “chai”. certainly a possibility and probably just one or two dates away… but not what i wanted. i wanted my dick wet. i wanted my cock in her mouth within the hour. and i didn’t want another relationship to be maintained.
the economy. it is going to take a hit, no doubt. she didn’t like her job, it was boring. there wasn’t much to do in the last few months and the mood was bad. she was worried about her future. shucks babe. i took this as a cue to spring my trap.
although i am bored of telling the same stories over and over, i talked about myself while trying my best to not sound self-obsessed, an essential talent if you want to score with women.
1) sometimes i visit moscow, but don’t have time for a girlfriend. so sad.
2) i get lonely sometimes and need the affection of a good woman.
3) i need the passion between man and woman.
she looked at me thoughtfully and i believe she understood the implications of my sell.
without further ado, i decided to put the cards on the table.
i asked her not to be insulted, and told her i would provide her with a degree of financial assistance for occasional meetings. perhaps i could even help her find another job. we had chemistry, so putting this subject on the table went well. i imagine that some girls would have been upset and i would have shot down any chance to score later with my proposal, but my instincts proved correct and she seemed relatively unfazed. i asked if she was shocked. she was surprised, but wasn’t shocked. she also didn’t have time for a serious boyfriend. nice.
price. where should i start?
i had to make it clear that i wasn’t interested in a permanent sponsorship deal. it was to be hourly or nightly basis and no more than one or two times a month. i didn’t want to break the bank just for some sex.
considering the crisis as my friend and knowing that at the investment bank she would anticipate the looming crisis more than kristina and co., i aimed low, offering 2500 rubles an hour or max 7000 for a night. i figured she’d try to haggle up to 3000 or more an hour, but she didn’t. she considered the offer for a moment and said she was interested but not 100% sure, suggesting we meet again later in the week to discuss it further. since i had a gf meeting me at 7 that evening, i had to close the deal now or wait until january next year. by january, i would most likely have found other options, or perhaps she’d be off the market or even worse, would have reconsidered her price position. i wanted my hands on her ass and my cock in her mouth within the next 60 minutes and not 30 days from now.
i suggested she instead call her bank and tell them she had some personal business she had to attend to for an hour or two. two hours with me would be a pleasant way to spend the afternoon, ili net? she seemed excited about the prospect, smiling and called her work.
work agreed and we walked through the rain back to my apartment, agreeing on a 2-3 hour date for 5000 rubles. she had time until about 5.
once in the apartment, it was all tongues, groping and moans. seldom have i had such a passionate encounter. it was if she’d been waiting for a man for months. who knows, maybe she had.
and here come the benefits of paying. with my status as “the wallet” in the back of my head, and she not being a hardcore pro playing her own power game, it was very easy to direct her to do everything i wanted.
“down on your knees and take my cock out of my pants and beat your own head with it.”
“stand up and lift up your skirt and show me your ass.”
“get on the floor and stick your ass in the air and spread your pussy lips so i can see it.”
passionately kissing with our clothes now rep001tered around the living room, we eventually moved to the bedroom. she was really on fire. i think the idea of fucking a stranger for money on her lunch break had turned her on. good girls don’t do that. it was bad. a very bad thing to do. god do some girls love being bad.
her body was immaculate. pussy shaved absolutely bare and silky smooth. so much so, it made me wonder if she had any hair at all. i’m certain she did, but it could not have been much. young, strong breasts, perky and taut. and her pussy… wet, hot and receptive. eating her out she moaned loudly, bucking and rocking as my tongue darted around her clit. finally she pulled me up to her and i whispered to her:
“beg me to fuck you.”
her eyes wild with passion, she begged me to fuck her, her voice almost sobbing with emotion. i donned a condom and entered her tight wet box, proceeding to thrash her in several positions before telling her i was going to come in her mouth.
i took off the condom and started mouth fucking her, before rolling over and letting her suck me off. she was slobbering crazily about my cock, her blonde head jackhammering away as i approached orgasm. finally i came in a massive o, shooting loads of jizz into her mouth and onto her pretty face. she moaned and tried to swallow as much as she could.
we laid together panting for a couple of minutes before washing up.
that was round one, two more were to follow.
as 5 approached and we redressed, we spoke and kissed like lovers. of course it was a business deal… the 5000 rubles on the table were there to prove it. but it was perfect for me. she wasn’t my gf. there’d be no jealousy, no awkward moments. no romancing the pants off of her. just pure passion and power of position… at prices i was willing to pay. prices that wouldn’t make me feel like an idiot.
it was 5, she was leaving and my body was spent in ecstacy. she was glowing in post-coital glee as i escorted her outside so she could go back to work. wonder what her friends thought when she came back from her extended lunch break with a silly grin on her face?
hope she got all the jizz off of it.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank] Hope she got all the jizz off her face.[/QUOTE] Cripes Skank - what the hell are they feeding you down there in Moldova? Clearly a master of prose. This is a real pleasure to read.
Now, How does this nomination for Report of Distinction thing work? Because I think this one qualifies in all categories for originality, interesting content, and just a nicely written piece of work.
A+ in my book.
MO-LO-DETS!
Takes some serious fucking BALLS to throw down an "indecent proposal" like that on a first date, Doc.
As for HotDog, I can't believe they're still pulling the 12K-15K shit. As I was saying months ago, they need to balance their margin with volume. Costs as a WG in Moscow are significant: transport, clothes, lodging (if not local - like most), club entry and warm-up drinks. Even if they stay in some shithole in Ximki and wear cheap-ass poddelka s rynka, it's still $80 [B]minimum[/B] per evening for everything else, probably closer to $120. If they insist on $400/LT, they're probably only going to get 2 clients a week max (working 6 nights a week). But if they dropped that to $250/LT, they'd hook up practically every night. That would move them from just breaking even (or worse) to clearing up to $1000/week. Sure, they're gonna have to work for it, but life is hard... Unfortunately, if these girls were so good in finance, they wouldn't be working at HD. Instead, they'd be working at investment banks and earning $200 free-and-clear during their lunch hours.
[QUOTE=Lukasek]My 2 crowns. Czech cause from 1 January slovakia will get euro too LOL.
4 years ago the russians were about 15-20% more sexy than Polish, Czech and Slovak girls that I know very well and they were almost at same level "serious" and at the same level spoiled. From the last experience, included provincies too, I saw as even if Russian girls keep on be a bit more sexy, and maybe passionate too, than their eastern sisters, now they are TOO MUCH spoiled, too much into money. Doc said it perfect, they want first money and then play, I'd say they want money and (maybe) later play.
I think for one that no go to Russia for business but only for mongering, it does no more worth it as before. Much less troubles, much cheaper if I will travelling a bit less and where I do not need to get a visa. Not to mention easier to get a "relationship" and no problem to get them travelling to my home with no visa-problems.
We will see, I am curious to see how the 2009 will change our hobby and most of all where we all will finish to go to make our spending money still worth it. [/QUOTE]It is a difficult task to compare slavic women. I will try to give some hints, how it works like. Three factors money spent, appearance level and behaviour are taken into account. These really matter in real circumstances. So we have:
Czech girls
1. You spend money for date expenses. You don't pay for presents.
2. Appearance. Very good.
3. Behaviour. Bad.
So you get sex with good looking girls spending reasonable money but enduring bad behaviour (no relation to Russian or ukrainian girls' behaviour). Actually Czech girls can completely impose on you becoming a kind of masters, so it is useful to have the more soft ukrainian experience from time to time to feel again in control and not under control.
Polish girls
1. You spend very little money for date expenses. Actually the girl pays for half the dates (cultural reasons, ethics, which I cannot now explain)
2. Appearance. Mediocre.
3. Behaviour. Good.
These girls are serious and want marriage. So they do not want to appear bad by asking for presents etc. It is a complicated issue. They do everything in bed (more than Russian and ukrainian girls, they really have no limits) but you have to compromise with mediocre appearance. Why? Because all the hottest ones are already taken and proposed marriage by the age of 20 and the marriages do not break easily (lowest divorce rate in Europe).
So Polish girls are the best to marry if sb is interested. They are not so good for relationships or just sex because they will ask for marriage inside 6 months from the time they had sex.
Ukrainian girls
1. You spend money for dates and presents. However presents are not very expensive. So they cost more than Czech or Polish girls.
2. Appearance. Good. You get young girls with appearance in the upper 15-20% of population. Not in the 5% because they are already taken. Again they marry in young age, so almost all gorgeous, extremely beautiful have been proposed by the age of 20 and are not available.
3. Behaviour. Good. They really do a lot for you, to feel comfortable unlike Czech girls who are far more independant. They don't make bitter or sarcastic comments unlike western slavic girls. They always want to please.
But the big but for slavic girls. Mental. They are very mental. All of them, Polish, Czech, ukrainian, Russian. Hysterical, with ups and downs, craziness which is hard to repress and a general sadness, pain, quick change of emotions, very emotional and actresses natural born and have a lot of boyfriends simultaneously and are always preooccupied with family, so you get into family and a lot more slavic things which everyone who has relationships with the slavic girls from the garden experiences.
The craziness, hysterical attitude and emotional ocean arises very differently in Polish, ukrainian and Czech girls due to cultural differences but the core remains the same pointing to the common origin of slavic genes.
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]MO-LO-DETS!
Takes some serious fucking BALLS to throw down an "indecent proposal" like that on a first date, Doc. As for HotDog, I can't believe they're still pulling the 12K-15K shit. [/QUOTE]
Piz - As I shared with you over coffee the other day, I visited Night Flight with a colleague who was a first timer to Moscow. Since I had already arranged for some midnight delivery, I was not at all serious to taking someone home but used the opportunity to try a few experiments. Within 5 minutes at the bar we (I was approached by two or three 7.5's. chatting and politely rebuffing a few girls seems to be an invitation for all the girls to try their hand at approaching us. Now - keep in mind that it was only about 11:00 PM so I would not normally expected any kind of motivation. One solid 8.5 from Pieter named Olga came over and make her play. She was a student from MGU studying Media Communication or something like that.
She came out of the chute asking for 400 Euros. Within a millisecond I turned her down and told her I was not was she was looking for. I responded that 10,00 rubles for all night including BBBJ and anal was what I was looking for. She countered with 12,00 rubles, no anal but would stay until 6:00 AM. I told her I would think about it and got another drink and started talking to my first time friend who was like a cat in a fish market.
It must have been a good 15 minutes when Olga came back and lowered her price to 10,000 and almost broke down in tears telling me that she had not had a trick in three weeks and was getting desperate for the money to pay rent.
I suggested to her that if she was desperate she should think about lowering her price. She might get more hits and boost her revenue although her net profit per trick might suffer but at least it was money for rent. Obviously a film major and not an economics major because she looked at me like I had three heads.
My point in telling you this is that it looks as though the market is getting stressed and there might be a price drop in the wind.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]MO-LO-DETS!
Takes some serious fucking BALLS to throw down an "indecent proposal" like that on a first date, Doc.
[/QUOTE]Actually I think that is the only time to do it... after that it'd be even more awkward. Moral of the story is, we can afford to be creative in these interesting times.. :)
Making the proposal is no big deal. The trick is...
1. Being lucky enough to find yourself in that kind of situation, which Doc seems to be able to do with ridiculous frequency, and then
2. Being savvy enough to know that you are, in fact, in that kind of situation and how best to exploit it.
Doc, nice pix. Such beautiful... fingernails! :)
[quote=jake993]i suggested to her that if she was desperate she should think about lowering her price. she might get more hits and boost her revenue although her net profit per trick might suffer but at least it was money for rent. obviously a film major and not an economics major because she looked at me like i had three heads.[/quote]jake,
it's an interesting socio-economic topic that i'm sure will continue to unfold in various ways over the next 12 to 18 months, since the situation in russia is bound to worsen. as you say, from a purely economic analysis, the solution is simple, lower your price and increase your volume of sales. it worked for walmart, why not russkii dyeffki? based on your recent experience it would seem that it doesn't work that way.
first, you're dealing with women (not known for their logical thought processes), who are providing a very personal service so little things like pride and self-esteem come into play. it's one thing if you are making widgets, you need only crank up the speed on the assembly line, but when you [b][i]are[/i][/b] the product, it's a different story.
15 years ago, they didn't know any different, $100 was an immense amount of money for a young russian woman and she was happy to give you whatever you wanted. but now, they have seen a better way of life and it's difficult to return to the old way. the funny thing about education is, you can't [b][i]not[/b][/i] know something.
there are some very savvy women who understand that the basic rules of capitalist economics can be applied to sex. they will be very successful in this time. but now that the djinn is out of the bottle, how do we persuade the studyentki at mgu that less is more? i don't know, but certainly it's a problem that deserves our most careful consideration. :)
[quote=stravinsky]
first, you're dealing with women (not known for their logical thought processes), who are providing a very personal service so little things like pride and self-esteem come into play. it's one thing if you are making widgets, you need only crank up the speed on the assembly line, but when you [b][i]are[/i][/b] the product, it's a different story.[/quote]
strav, that's an astute observation. another thing that comes into play is that prices in moscow (at least from what i see here on the ground) really haven't come down yet. that includes food, drink, rent, petrol, clothes, you name it... why? i'm not sure exactly, but protectionist import tariffs aren't gonna help, that's for sure. and in real estate, there seems to be a parallel in the p4p market. price are more-or-less the same as before, but there is near zero volume. the sellers just aren't willing to accept that their apartments are worth half as much as they were at the peak. and when the devalued asset is your own body... well, that's even harder to come to grips with.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Strav, that's an astute observation. Another thing that comes into play is that prices in Moscow (at least from what I see here on the ground) really haven't come down yet. That includes food, drink, rent, petrol, clothes, you name it... Why? [/QUOTE] I will defer to your local knowledge Pizdyets, but it seemed to me that there were a lot of "sales" going on in Moscow on this visit. I bought a pair of prescription reading glasses for 60% off and a pair of winter dress boots for 45% off the regular price. I don't recall seeing that before. Now, it's probably true that they are just cutting the juicy margins that they have gotten used to but retailers are making a sacrifice in the name of moving product. Stravinsky makes an excellent point in the separation of commodity and personal self esteem. HOWEVER, there does come a point where the late Dr. Abraham Maslow's observations come into play. At some point, you gotta pay the rent and the tuition. The question is - at what point do the sight of all these "on sale" signs do dyeffki bite the bullet and accept less?
I'm starting to think that perhaps Dr. S has the right approach going in search of the "lesser plowed field" ,as it were, rather than to turn the tide of pricing practise. Perhaps by preempting the situation with the offer of financial compensation we can temp the reluctant from their shells rather than struggle with the moral side of a changing economy?
[QUOTE=Jake993]I will defer to your local knowledge Pizdyets, but it seemed to me that there were a lot of "sales" going on in Moscow on this visit. I bought a pair of prescription reading glasses for 60% off and a pair of winter dress boots for 45% off the regular price. I don't recall seeing that before. [/QUOTE]It's funny how Russians keep refusing to recognize the popping of the bubble. It's well known now that if you want to buy a new flat with cash all of the major real estate firms are offering "discounts." When will they realize that a "discount" that is permanent amongst all of the real estate firms is actually just the new market price? For now it's a waiting game, with people sitting on flats, but that can only go on for so long if unemployment goes up and people need money (and think that there money is stored in their flat).
As to everyday purchases (boots, clothes, etc.) I doubt we will see much of a price decrease.
[quote=stravinsky]jake,
first, you're dealing with women (not known for their logical thought processes), who are providing a very personal service so little things like pride and self-esteem come into play. it's one thing if you are making widgets, you need only crank up the speed on the assembly line, but when you [b][i]are[/i][/b] the product, it's a different story.
15 years ago, they didn't know any different, $100 was an immense amount of money for a young russian woman and she was happy to give you whatever you wanted. but now, they have seen a better way of life and it's difficult to return to the old way. the funny thing about education is, you can't [b][i]not[/b][/i] know something.[/quote]
well, that is really the key, isn't it?
it is going to be very hard for girls to unlearn that guys should spend $400 for the pleasure of their company. price acceptance will be easier for those who did not have an established historical price - i.e. fresh young girls just coming onto the market. so reluctantly we will have to forego the pleasures of 26+ year old girls who have been spoiled by the last few years and focus on teaching economics to students and young 20's who are just discovering that life is tough and there are no jobs and how can they afford leather thigh-boots without some help?
the things we do to promote an efficient capitalist model!!
Gentleman travel,
I couldn't have said it better myself.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]Well, that is really the key, isn't it?
It is going to be very hard for girls to UNLEARN that guys should spend $400 for the pleasure of their company. Price acceptance will be easier for those who did not have an established historical price - i.e. fresh young girls just coming onto the market. So reluctantly we will have to forego the pleasures of 26+ year old girls who have been spoiled by the last few years and focus on teaching economics to students and young 20's who are just discovering that life is tough and there are no jobs and how can they afford leather thigh-boots without some help?
The things we do to promote an efficient capitalist model!![/QUOTE]Guys,
Take over and stop paying INFLATED "wages" (tongue in cheek)!
A week or 2 of no 'fawking' $$ and they will re-evaluate. And I agree, go for the young, new, fresh 'blood'. Ummm. I mean Pussy!
LS 'Ukraine Master' Guy
the golden question: when will the crisis start saving us money with pros and when will the crisis start making us more attractive to non-pros?
i have mixed emotions on this.
of course i also feel a degree of schadenfreude to see some of the arrogance and showmanship of the "new rich" and "think-i'm-rich" collapse like gm stock. in the glorious rise of new russia someone obviously forgot to tell the most arrogant of russians that their city is still leagues behind any sizable european or american city in terms of infrastructure or quality of life. these things aren't created overnight, nor in 10 years of putin-blessed stability. i think the crisis will bring some new realities to russia and it's citizens, which ultiimately is a good thing for them. hopefully it will accelerate the breakdown of institutionalized corruption, stagnate mind-boggling inflated property values and reset priorities.
probably just wishful thinking, as after all russia is russia and plays by it's own rules anyway.
the last 4 years in russia have been an unprecedented feeding frenzy for capitalists looking to earn easy money, employ embezzlement schemes or simply live above one's means. particularly in that sense, russia understood the american capitalist model very well, perhaps too well. it ain't working that well for america right now either.
despite any schadenfreude or forlorn hope that the return of the white god factor is just around the corner, we must equally come terms with the fact that:
a) the world crisis isn't going to make most of us richer either
b) a whole generation of dev has forever been corrupted by easy cash and plastic lifestyles
so where does that put us?
the ruble will likely devalue even more, as pressure on the ruble increases and the russian government is less and less willing to support it with cash injections/faux purchasing. this will make the cost of living for russians even higher than before. good for us.
many russians will lose their jobs or be forced to accept less pay. personal credits for cars, tvs, apartments, vacations will default. liquid cash will be highly valued. good for us.
many local high-rollers will see their cash assets disappear or be significantly reduced, forcing them to reset priorities and cut back on their entertainment budgets. many girls will find themselves without sponsorship of any kind. good for us.
devs used to glamorous lifestyles, or actually in most cases just consumption-fueled plastic lifestyles, will find themselves without the means to support those lifestyles. they'll need money and support. good for us.
in fact, in theory this all sounds great for us, provided the crisis hasn't driven us into personal bankruptcy ourselves.
but how does this pan out in reality?
will girls who wanted $500/3 hours a few months ago settle for $150 soon?
will the return of the tochka feature local girls looking for quick cash?
will the tochka come back to reality, a reality in which a street ho doesn't cost $300/night?
will glam nightclubs suddenly again see foreigners as management-pleasing, over-tipping cash cows to be let in past face control despite their sloppy dress and inability to speak the native tongue?
will dev ability to speak english again be seen as a sign of intelligence and cosmopolitan flair and not merely a kowtowing surrender to the lesser-cultured tongue of the miserly, humourless enemy?
will leaving russia via marriage again be en vogue?
where will the money trail lead to?
the only way to find out is to conduct research, which is the job of any true pioneer. in recent weeks i have been testing the water. there is a lot of talk about the crisis in russia now. in fact, it seems to be the only topic of conversation, at least in business circles. girls generally don't want to hear about it, but even they cannot stave off the effects of the crisis forever. it seems to me that inevitably there will be cash flow problems among the devs.
this has not however turned into savings for us... yet. recent excursions to hot dog, that notorious silly-named brothel with a checkered smile, have shown that there was little bargaining to be done, at least during the humane hours of 12-2. desperation time starts about 3:30, but who really wants to stay until then?
pizdyets had it right when stating that hd should be your last chance option and not your first.
main point being though, i have yet to see any real changes in the pro sex price model yet. i am confident they'll come and hopeful that the crisis doesn't end up shooting us in the foot and force hd to close entirely. despite it's deficiencies, i still prefer it over nf, salons or inet. the classic pick-up bar is a thing of beauty when it functions correctly.
on the sponsorship front i achieved a victory in making an indecent proposal to a cash-starved dev working at a bank. this went off so well and was so immensely satisfying that i will certainly try it again. this kind of arrangement could very well be our best avenue, even if it is certainly filled with pitfalls. not every girl is willing to ***** herself to pay the rent... but some will if you catch them at the right moment. besides, it's fun.
furthermore, the sponsorship front in general is due to collapse like a house of cards. there are thousands of girls 18-25 who feed their lifestyles on cash donations from wealthy and wanna-be wealthy russians. much of this market will dry up. i expect there will be more girls willing to accept temporary or part-time arrangements to keep their cash flow up. several months ago, nearly all pokered for larger amounts and more permenant arrangements. there wasn't much to be had for the casual monger before, at least for he who is unwilling to crack the $400 threshold. hopefully this will change and become a more demokratichny arrangement.
most interesting for many is the freebie scene, how will the crisis affect us there?
in a real sense it could put foreigners back on the map again. for a few years now, we have been reduced from being the players to being oddities. not despised by any means, but hardly the trophy fuck we used to be in the late 90s. we are friendly and polite, usually better-looking and in better shape than equivalently aged russians, have some money although a bit stingy with it, overall presentable and generally harmless. in other words for the average ladder-climbing dev, we were somehwhat boring and culturally inept, yet fuckable. still, girls need to be talked into bed... either with the gift of russky gab or that babelfish of tongues, money. the locals brushed us to the curb in this sense in the last 5 years.
exotic guys of whatever category had it better with some girls looking for adventure fucks, but even they found themselves taking second place to guys with money. so is the dev hierarchy of needs.
moscow-based expats who were able to move in the right circles also easily found new and willing contacts, however average expat guys with limited time in country and a limited dating schedule found themselves still scoring better than they would have at home, yet not exactly enjoying the reverence they had hoped for.
so where does this put us now?
as i said, i expect us to be back on the map and will be able to reach a wider audience, especially if we give them added value. added value can be money (cash, trips, restaurants) or relationships (marriage, dating) or cultural (language, inter-cultural relations) or emotional (love, sex, adventure). it is not that we were ever completely unpopular and we still enjoyed many advantages over locals, yet we were more of a sideshow than anything else.
some fundamental things will have changed as well, regarding the relations between girls and boys in general. not all of these are to our advantage.
more and more russian girls are dating among their peer group. one of the great things about russia for us mongers... assuming most of us are over 30 or often even 40 or 50... is that it is socially acceptable and often even desirable for young girls to have boyfriends/partners who are considerably older than they are. this has not died out, especially among those girls who are looking for sponsors or "added value". we are very much in the ballgame here.
however many girls have become accustomed to dating boys their own age... their peer group, sharing their common interests. this group, 18-22, is tougher to crack. unfortunately for me, this is exactly the group i prefer. i don't think the crisis will change the new found preferences, but rather it is a change that has occured, not only due to more money being available to young men, but rather due to the way people communicate and interrelate today as opposed to 10 years ago. young russians are as modern as their western counterparts and constantly on the phone, on the internet, meeting together, sharing common cultural interests. we are completely out of this loop. there is little point in trying to crack it on their terms.
nonetheless, these girls are still available on other terms. russian girls are inherently curious and if they believe that they can get some experience from you, you have a real chance. this experience isn't exclusively sexual of course, but it does play an important role. it is important here to be yourself and keep the relationship on a teacher-student basis. going to their level may score some initial points, but they really don't want you there. they want you on an intellectual, social-status pedestal, not glossy-eyed and drunk in their favorite club. moreover, if a teacher-student relationship is established, it isn't necessary to go through all the bullshit dating loops and hurdles required for traditional courtship. it is often enough to be your own self, provided you are actually interesting and don't look like a complete troll. this approach may take some patience, but can be very rewarding. most interesting here is also the fact that there is no exit-strategy required. it isn't expected to last forever.
so where are we pre-crisis, mid-crisis and post-crisis? time will tell and ultimately it is impossible to predict. nonetheless, the writing is on the wall and it is clear that the crisis presents us with an opportunity.
more research required.
I won't quote your long report.
You are a literary genius.
This report made a lot of sense, very clever, well written!
[QUOTE=LifeSavour]Guys,
Take over and stop paying INFLATED "wages" (tongue in cheek)!
A week or 2 of no 'fawking' $$ and they will re-evaluate. And I agree, go for the young, new, fresh 'blood'. Ummm. I mean Pussy!
LS 'Ukraine Master' Guy[/QUOTE]
Well, the thinking of working girls all over the world seems to be the same to me. If there are half as many clients, they all try to double their prices in order to get the same income. It's stupid, but it's the way they think ...
B.B.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]The Golden Question: [/QUOTE] As always, very though provoking musing by the good Doctor. You make some interesting points about both HD and NF keeping in mind that preference is a matter of taste. I am 100% behind your assertion that HD has most definitely changed its complexion over the past few years as the prices have steadily crept upwards challenging NF for price. Still, you can find the odd skanky Provincalka (no pun intended) who has wandered in off the street will go home with you for a reasonable price.
What has surprised me (only reinforced during my visit to NF last week) is this sort of rip-off mentality that is becoming more and more common at NF. What do I mean by "rip-off mentality" you may wonder? In years past, NF has always had a reputation for having girls who have by and large been very good looking, relatively safe (from a security point of view) and who spoke some reasonable of English. All others were summarily "faced" and told to peddle their wares elsewhere. And with few exceptions, most girls provided reasonable satisfaction for a fair, albeit premium, price. To be sure, NF has never been a bargain, but it was fair. And you pretty much knew what you were getting.
The last few times, I have REALLY noticed a change in both the quality of girls and more recently, a real change in attitude. And maybe it's just me getting cynical in my old age, but some of these girls actually think they can get away with getting paid and MAYBE not having to perform the sex act. Taking some well learned lessons from trips to Brazil, I have started to use the "interview" more diligently to weed out the pretenders. It used to be that after some sexy chat, you could get a feel for what was going to happen back at the room, but recent interviews have revealed a real impatience and an unwillingness to get into the spirit of the transaction.
After pressing one candidate, she almost got indignant and implied that once we got back to the room I was gonna be "on the clock" so if I wanted more than one "pop I would have to make it snappy because she had to get up the next day to make it to afternoon classes at University. Talk about a deal killer. And then when you say, "No thanks toots" so gets all indignant about you wasting her precious time.
It's almost as if the New NF girls EXPECT you to take them home and you had jolly well BETTER be grateful with WHATEVER service they decide to give you for your hard earned $$$$.
Part of the NF experience used to be the illusion that you were going to have "the experience of a lifetime". Even though it rarely turned out to be so, at least they gave you the illusion that your time together was going to be something special. Now, it feel like they don't even want to make an effort to pull the wool over your eyes.
And don't get me wrong - with the promise of fast money and sponsorship for doing little more than smiling and looking pretty I can see how the erosion of attitude has developed. Maybe some of these Oligarchs were happy to throw money around just to be seen in public with a cadre of stunning women. Hey, more power to them.
I just hope that as we all wander through this crisis (perceived or real) that we experience a return to the basics of a service oriented business. Prices will rise and fall with demand, but once the attitude goes, the customer is NEVER going to be happy regardless of the price.
[QUOTE=Jake993]After pressing one candidate, she almost got indignant and implied that once we got back to the room I was gonna be "on the clock" so if I wanted more than one "pop I would have to make it snappy because she had to get up the next day to make it to afternoon classes at University.
It's almost as if the New NF girls EXPECT you to take them home and you had jolly well BETTER be grateful with WHATEVER service they decide to give you for your hard earned $$$$.[/QUOTE]Jake,
The next time one of the dyeffki at NF gives you a hard time about pricing, ask her if she's offering an "антикризисная скидка" (anti-crisis discount).
And then step back and watch the fireworks! LOL
[QUOTE=Jake993]I just hope that as we all wander through this crisis (perceived or real) that we experience a return to the basics of a service oriented business. Prices will rise and fall with demand, but once the attitude goes, the customer is NEVER going to be happy regardless of the price.[/QUOTE]Wise words... nonetheless, I do think pros will hang tough with prices longer than semi-pros/sponsorship type girls will. Despite what anyone says, I suspect that there is some sort of price control going on at HD/NF and price structure isn't individually calculated.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Wise words... nonetheless, I do think pros will hang tough with prices longer than semi-pros/sponsorship type girls will. Despite what anyone says, I suspect that there is some sort of price control going on at HD/NF and price structure isn't individually calculated.[/QUOTE] And this is EXACTLY why I like about your IP (Indecent Proposal) approach. Completely free market format, free will driven arrangement between consenting adults based on hormones and economic need. Not to wax lyrical about Brazil, but it's the same kind of arrangement that goes on every day on the beach, in the cafes, the book store, restaurant, disco and just about any other place pretty girls are found.
In addition to a little bit more sunshine, Russia could benefit from this one aspect of Brazilian modern culture.
Happy Holidays fellows - I'm off to Vancouver tomorrow to visit family for the holidays. Hmmmm....... might need to check out the local monger scene in Hong-couver to make some comparisons. Purely in the name of research, of course.
Hail hail Dr. Skank, our #1 sage.
Dr Skank,
Its reports like yours that make this forum enjoyable. Bravo again!
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]The Golden Question: when will the crisis start saving us money with pros and when will the crisis start making us more attractive to non-pros? [...][/QUOTE]Always a pleasure to read your posts Doctor Skank, knowledge is power and you are an expert about Russia.
My opinion is that all depends on the oil prices, if you get oil under $60 more than 1 year, the country will have some serious issues. Otherwise we will see more "friendly" girls but nothing compared to the good old times.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy]Well, the thinking of working girls all over the world seems to be the same to me. If there are half as many clients, they all try to double their prices in order to get the same income. It's stupid, but it's the way they think ...
B.B.[/QUOTE]
...but as the crisis bites and the number of working girls doubles, trebles or quadruples there will be more competition to capture the cash rich client - over supply will dictate a return to more sensible prices. Be patient, I can smell a return to the post '98 crisis days (lots of part-timers around, heaps of GFE's....)
RC
[QUOTE=Jake993]I have started to use the "interview" more diligently to weed out the pretenders. It used to be that after some sexy chat, you could get a feel for what was going to happen back at the room, but recent interviews have revealed a real impatience and an unwillingness to get into the spirit of the transaction.[/QUOTE]
I do the same, except my interview technique involves DFK. I tell them straight up that I can only consider them if they do it (and do it well) there in the club. A kiss is much more intimate in many ways than FS since your soft and wet parts are directly touching her soft and wet parts. It's possible that I might inadvertently throw out some wheat with the chaff, but somehow I can just [B]tell[/B] if she'll turn out to be a starfish... or a succubus.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]The Golden Question: when will the crisis start saving us money with pros and when will the crisis start making us more attractive to non-pros?
Will dev ability to speak English again be seen as a sign of intelligence and cosmopolitan flair and not merely a kowtowing surrender to the lesser-cultured tongue of the miserly, humourless enemy?
Will leaving Russia via marriage again be en vogue?
...
Most interesting for many is the freebie scene, how will the crisis affect us there?
...
In a real sense it could put foreigners back on the map again...[/QUOTE]
I think the freebie and amatuer market is where the real opportunities will be.
Amatuers because they will not have the same price expectations as pros and are probably driven largely by economic need, so they will be very price-sensitive.
But the more interesting market is the freebie, and in particular the budding brides. Many girls have been enjoying the party for years now, but the party is over. Girls will realize this and will adapt their strategies. They have always done this, and not just Russians, but lots of American girls are no different - partied at university, but settled down with a "Steady Eddy" type when they turned 30 and wanted a family. Seen it dozens of times. But Russian girls are even more bi-polar (combination of passion and practicality) than their American counterparts, so the shift should be more dramatic.
So Russian girls will now be thinking beyond their partying years and looking for long-term stability. They partied through their 20s and now it is time to move on. They can see that resurgent Russia is not what it promised to be and their eyes and ambitions will look to the West (which is not what it promised to be either, but they won't know that).
So that creates an opportunity for Western guys, but not necessarily for easy night-club pick-ups. But for more serious (or strategic) dating. We may have to go back to the "interviewing" girls for LTR strategy, whether sincere or not. It especially creates an opportunity for semi-serious bride-hunters like DJ4$.
Whether you should contemplate a long-term relationship with a girl fresh out of the fast-living night club scene is another matter...
[quote=doctor_skank]the golden question: when will the crisis start saving us money with pros and when will the crisis start making us more attractive to non-pros?
more research required.[/quote]
following is a post that i made in october in the ukraine thread - so long ago in the warp speed of the current economic climate. i believe that it applied to mother russia as well and is panning out as we speak.
as an answer to the doctor's plea above: "when will the crisis start saving us money with pros and when will the crisis start making us more attractive to non-pros?"
as a stab - late february and early march. why?
as we observe, things are imploding rapidly and picking up momentum on the economy, currency and social fronts.
we may calculate a december with tough times and rents coming due while salaries are cut and lay-offs rise. new year and orthodox christmas will drain much of the dyevs dwindling cash as one must party, gifts for the extended family, and travel to the home village for many, correct?
that brings up as well january rents followed by the february rent when the purse will be tapped out in a big way. we then move through february and the dreaded march rent and the overdue bills mounting up. sauve isg mongers with greenbills now look like a chance (only?) to have a dinner once again with the well understood desert to follow.
therefore late february and early march to be the optimum time and maxium pain for the girls who have had and still want a whole lotta more.
a few caveats. all hell could break lose in the same time frame as we see in the far east over increased duties on used cars. mr. putin could be close to 'losing it' with trouble at the mill.
and then there is the situation when the mongers confronted with capitulating dyevs may themselves not be able to get it up, as it were themselves, moneywise.
an then, all of the above could be wrong - it is after all just a prediction as stated on the tin.
somehow, i think much of the doctor's dreamed for reversion to fairyland will rapidly come to pass, even the tochka, which let's face it started much of the whole sausage for many. it is and is going to get brutal.
if we have game and cash - even bez's camera lens may lose its fog and enter the bright, old world of the ruble worth 40% or more from the peak and the 2009 edition of the foreign monger again lights up the eyes of ludmilla, nato et al since the local byzyness men are now tapped out.
us $150 overnight for the pick of the crop? not too far away, i think and hope.
happy days return, cruiser d october 27
[quote=excess]start thinking ruble crash of 1998 and move back in time from there cd. reasonably safe to predict that we will see ukr. and ee getting back to those times from this xmas on. it is going to be a great monger spring in ee once again. just be sure to keep your powder dry and enjoy. bez b will think he died (again) and is in 3-hole heaven once more. it is gonna be brutal for the young players but the old hands will thrive.
prepare to hang in and enjoy. oh yes - no longer will the good ladies be turning up their noses at the puny us $ - until it crashes again, imo, along with super high interest rates in 12-18 months. i can hardly wait.
[url]http://www.advfn.com/news_update-2-imf-ukraine-agree-on-16-5-billion-loan-deal_28947523.html[/url][/quote]
..... more research needed, indeed.
I am sure, this is one the most important post in Slavic threads.
In fact I would like to have a long relationship with Slavic girls (I am a gentleman, aren't I? ! ) but I always face their "crazy crisis", and I always thought they are drug addicted. But they are not usually drug addicted (although drugs are widespreaded), those "crazy crisis" are their genetic characteristic.
Their "crazy crisis" are not good because, in that while, everything bad could happen: in an evening, a girl threw the remote control and it broke the glass tea table, and I became very angry, but could I do something different?
But could we, men, do in those moments? Just sometimes, they will say "I am sorry, I explain my problem."
[QUOTE=Hecker]It is a difficult task to compare slavic women. . .
The craziness, hysterical attitude and emotional ocean arises very differently in Polish, ukrainian and Czech girls due to cultural differences but the core remains the same pointing to the common origin of slavic genes.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]I think the freebie and amatuer market is where the real opportunities will be.
Amatuers because they will not have the same price expectations as pros and are probably driven largely by economic need, so they will be very price-sensitive.
But the more interesting market is the freebie, and in particular the budding brides. Many girls have been enjoying the party for years now, but the party is over. Girls will realize this and will adapt their strategies. They have always done this, and not just Russians, but lots of American girls are no different - partied at university, but settled down with a "Steady Eddy" type when they turned 30 and wanted a family. Seen it dozens of times. But Russian girls are even more bi-polar (combination of passion and practicality) than their American counterparts, so the shift should be more dramatic.
So Russian girls will now be thinking beyond their partying years and looking for long-term stability. They partied through their 20s and now it is time to move on. They can see that resurgent Russia is not what it promised to be and their eyes and ambitions will look to the West (which is not what it promised to be either, but they won't know that).
So that creates an opportunity for Western guys, but not necessarily for easy night-club pick-ups. But for more serious (or strategic) dating. We may have to go back to the "interviewing" girls for LTR strategy, whether sincere or not. It especially creates an opportunity for semi-serious bride-hunters like DJ4$.
Whether you should contemplate a long-term relationship with a girl fresh out of the fast-living night club scene is another matter...[/QUOTE]
LOL, I can't believe you gave me a shout out, I owe you a beer or something...
How would I benefit??? Do tell....
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]
So Russian girls will now be thinking beyond their partying years and looking for long-term stability.... It especially creates an opportunity for semi-serious bride-hunters like DJ4$.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]LOL, I can't believe you gave me a shout out, I owe you a beer or something...
How would I benefit??? Do tell....[/QUOTE]
Don't mean to be mysterious DJ.
My point is that girls may be getting a wake-up call that the party is over.
It is time to grow up and settle down, in a stable environment.
Over the past few years the West had lost its allure for these girls,
and they were mesmerized by the glamour of Moscow as center of their universe.
Now they may be rethinking that and thinking more about the future.
This favours serious suitors, like you.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]Don't mean to be mysterious DJ.
My point is that girls may be getting a wake-up call that the party is over.
It is time to grow up and settle down, in a stable environment.
Over the past few years the West had lost its allure for these girls,
and they were mesmerized by the glamour of Moscow as center of their universe.
Now they may be rethinking that and thinking more about the future.
This favours serious suitors, like you.[/QUOTE]GT:
Essentially true, however the Russian press is full of gloating reports about the doom of the US and the fall of the US economy... so it'll take some time and a positive trend to get that ball rolling again.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]GT:
Essentially true, however the Russian press is full of gloating reports about the doom of the US and the fall of the US economy... so it'll take some time and a positive trend to get that ball rolling again.[/QUOTE]
Well, with Vlad spinning things maybe they will think the US is in trouble,
but I bet their intrinsic beleif that the US is stable and prosperous will prevail.
I mean, how many people are going to freeze to death in the US because
of no home heating? How many mongers are going to go hungry?
I guess now is the time to be in Kyiv, keeping the dyev's warm!
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]Well, with Vlad spinning things maybe they will think the US is in trouble,
but I bet their intrinsic beleif that the US is stable and prosperous will prevail.
I mean, how many people are going to freeze to death in the US because
of no home heating? How many mongers are going to go hungry?
I guess now is the time to be in Kyiv, keeping the dyev's warm![/QUOTE]True enough and perhaps Kiev would be better to apply those theories than Russia. Ukrainians generally think more of Americans anyway... besides, the crisis will hit Ukraine considerably harder than Russia.
Particularly in Russian metropolitans the crisis will take the wind out of many a boasting Vlad's sails, but nobody of breeding age is going to be freezing or starving... they'll just have to learn to get by on 3-year old phones and dinner at Yolki-Palki instead of Yakotoria.
GT I understood what you were trying to say, I just thought there was more too it.
I still believe Slavic girls are ready to settle down and have a family by 23-24 years old. By Western standards that's 5-10 years before the average Westerner is ready because let's be honest only ugly, fat or single mothers are ready to settle down sooner.
I have run into some snags.
I was able to nab a English speaking 22 yr old Crimea girl but one of the problems with not sharing a common culture be it popular or otherwise makes it more difficult to find things to talk about and when your having only Skype and IM conversations I believe that makes it worst.
Compare that to the Ukrainian single mother I banged back in '07, still in contact with her somewhat and she almost invited herself to the US on a K-1 Visa just to have "fun" for 90 days and that horrified me...lol "I leave baby with mother, I come see you for 90 days, we have fun". Now if she was better looking, I would consider this, but since she's really average looking for a Slavic girl and that's largely you guy's fault with all the pictures and web sites I have seen... Its clouded my judgment!
But all kidding aside I have come to the conclusion that if I'm going to do this and its a long term investment to get the most for my money.
Doc, I agree about the younger generation wants to date men in their own age group. Many still want contact outside of Russia or Eastern Europe, but with men in their own age group, especially if they come from larger cities. The great thing about Eastern Europe and Russia itself is its vastness, meaning there has to be thousands good looking women that -
a) Want to Settle Down
b) Willing to Leave
I don't think this crisis will increase the overall numbers greatly, maybe in St Pete or Moscow may see some additional women to the pool but its the outlaying areas that are still producing women interested in long term relationships.
I guess it won't really change that much for people like me in the margins, but for players at the top of the food chain, prices with drop, proposals will go up (the indecent kind) and women used to living the high life (by Russian standards) could believe the gig is up and its time to move on.
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]GT I understood what you were trying to say, I just thought there was more too it.
I still believe Slavic girls are ready to settle down and have a family by 23-24 years old. By Western standards that's 5-10 years before the average Westerner is ready because let's be honest only ugly, fat or single mothers are ready to settle down sooner.
I have run into some snags.
I was able to nab a English speaking 22 yr old Crimea girl but one of the problems with not sharing a common culture be it popular or otherwise makes it more difficult to find things to talk about and when your having only Skype and IM conversations I believe that makes it worst.
Compare that to the Ukrainian single mother I banged back in '07, still in contact with her somewhat and she almost invited herself to the US on a K-1 Visa just to have "fun" for 90 days and that horrified me...lol "I leave baby with mother, I come see you for 90 days, we have fun". Now if she was better looking, I would consider this, but since she's really average looking for a Slavic girl and that's largely you guy's fault with all the pictures and web sites I have seen... Its clouded my judgment!
But all kidding aside I have come to the conclusion that if I'm going to do this and its a long term investment to get the most for my money.
Doc, I agree about the younger generation wants to date men in their own age group. Many still want contact outside of Russia or Eastern Europe, but with men in their own age group, especially if they come from larger cities. The great thing about Eastern Europe and Russia itself is its vastness, meaning there has to be thousands good looking women that -
a) Want to Settle Down
b) Willing to Leave
I don't think this crisis will increase the overall numbers greatly, maybe in St Pete or Moscow may see some additional women to the pool but its the outlaying areas that are still producing women interested in long term relationships.
I guess it won't really change that much for people like me in the margins, but for players at the top of the food chain, prices with drop, proposals will go up (the indecent kind) and women used to living the high life (by Russian standards) could believe the gig is up and its time to move on.[/QUOTE]Actually, what will happen is the smaller out lying regions will be hit much harder by recession than the bigger cities. This recession is just now hitting Europe. The so called experts peg OCT 2007 as the start of the current US recession and we are aproximately half way through. Europe is probably 10 months behind the US in terms of the impact and depth of this current down turn.
Things are going to get VERY bad in eastern europe. This down turn in the economy isn't going to be measured in just a 'few months' it will last the better part of 1 1/2. 2 years. By the end of 2009 you will see prices these gorgeous women ask for P4P to drop like a rock. Basic economics will come into play. Many if not most of those "rich Russian men" will be broke before this is all said and done. EE is STILL in its infancy with capitalism and many people who are rich now will be completely wiped out.
Ergo, supply and demand. The supply of wealthy Russian men will FAR exceed the number of hot women available to meet said supply. Hence prices will drop like a rock. The FIRST thing to go when a man is facing a cashflow crisis is chasing expensive women.
Sorry, I am new to this sub-forum. I did not understand some abbreviations and they are in the forum [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=1897]abbreviation[/url].
For example:
NF, HD, dev ...etc.
If someone can help. Thanks
NF = Night Flight
HD = Hot Dog's
These are night clubs in Moscow that are frequented primarily by foreign tourists and are famous (notorious) places where you can pick up women.
dev = dyevushka, Russian word for girl/young woman.
Well, a lot's been said, predictions, predilections, and prevarications.
Its easy to be deep in freshman philosophy.
My take, not necessarily from the center, but more of a centrist, that is, not from the shitholes of small towns in the provinces, nor from the opposites of Moscow, Kiev, or Sankt Pitr, but from the larger provincial capitals, where Kreschatik and St Basil's are just a hop away on the daily train.
So these girls know that they're always gonna be second cousins, which ratchets down their snippiness and snobbishness a notch or two, leaving a group that's both experienced when it comes to trying new things on their own, yet still inexperienced enough so that you find a genuine willingness to come along for a moustache ride!
A rare few even have figured out that they can make the easiest money of all simply by dialing a few numbers on their handy. No, the vast majority still look at you with daggers in their eyes when you ask them if they have any padrugi, but there almost always seems to be one or two that will oblige and hook a monger up. Even then, chances are still fifty fifty, that her girlfriend is merely a plain ol' jane, and you end up fucking her strongly smelling black forest-thick jungle of a bush, for all you know she's even a virgin, that she deliberately sent you out of her feeling sorry for her prude girlfriend not getting asked out by her young rough ruski beer guzzling boys. So she sets ya up, cause she knows how great you are, yes, gentle and respectful, but also a wild sex tiger that really rocked her world, and knowing that if she sends you her sorry ass punk homegirl, that you'll accept a major downgrade cause you''re now obligated to do her a big favor and "do" her friend.
So really, its just one more way you end up with more pussy, more relatively easy and very cheap if not free pussy, in this ever changing world in which we live in, makes you give it a try, say live or let fuck!
On a final dredging, let me add that being the centrist that I am, and the perpetual odds player who's always trying to cheat the bank, since I know I'll never beat the bank, I know that with my luck, I'm also gonna hit a few mega-jackpots. Like when Alla showed up at 3 Am too drunk to walk, and fell out of the taxi right onto her face, but........she did bring Natalia with her, a bona fide solid 10, complete down to her perfect ass to breast ratio!
When it comes to western fascination and the itch to re-locate to the west, I still do not see these flowers, the bunch I meet are only willing to stay put. I agree that they ARE out there somewhere, I just don't meet them in my line of business/pleasure.
Needless to say, whatever the economics, I simply can't wait to get my dick back in there! Doesn't really matter, anyone will do, any way the wind blows?
Am I right?
I agree with you, or better, I would like to agree with you. That is my hope, because that is substantially a good guy's hope.
But what I, and we, see in real life?
In big towns, nice girls are definitely emancipated, it is no possible a comeback, they are interested in their work career and to have a good time, they are more open-minded than their Western similars, but they are on the way. I think Moscow scene will change little in spite of global recession.
High probability of successful relationships with young and nice girls in medium and small towns, but fluent Russian and a lot of time needed.
I haven't visited Moscow yet. I am keeping updated about Moscow. I have been to Kiev six times in one year. I am not sure at 100%, but I see a big difference between Kiev people (what I see in real life) and Moscow people (what I read about Moscow).
In my humble opinion, Kiev girls are becoming similar to Westerners more quickly than Moscow girls, and I see some Ukrainian relationships that remind me Italian relationships.
Therefore, I think Moscow could offer more opportunities than Kiev because in Moscow there is less American cultural contamination and girls still think in a Russian way.
The second BIG BIG problem is: when I (we) loves a Russian girl and vice versa, what it will happen when I (we) take her to my (our) Western country? This happens: she will change her behaviour in two years and she could become very similar to her Western friends. Who can help us to solve this second BIG BIG problem?
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]GT I understood what you were trying to say, I just thought there was more too it.
I still believe Slavic girls are ready to settle down and have a family by 23-24 years old. By Western standards that's 5-10 years before the average Westerner is ready because let's be honest only ugly, fat or single mothers are ready to settle down sooner.
I have run into some snags.
I was able to nab a English speaking 22 yr old Crimea girl but one of the problems with not sharing a common culture be it popular or otherwise makes it more difficult to find things to talk about and when your having only Skype and IM conversations I believe that makes it worst.
Compare that to the Ukrainian single mother I banged back in '07, still in contact with her somewhat and she almost invited herself to the US on a K-1 Visa just to have "fun" for 90 days and that horrified me...lol "I leave baby with mother, I come see you for 90 days, we have fun". Now if she was better looking, I would consider this, but since she's really average looking for a Slavic girl and that's largely you guy's fault with all the pictures and web sites I have seen... Its clouded my judgment!
But all kidding aside I have come to the conclusion that if I'm going to do this and its a long term investment to get the most for my money.
Doc, I agree about the younger generation wants to date men in their own age group. Many still want contact outside of Russia or Eastern Europe, but with men in their own age group, especially if they come from larger cities. The great thing about Eastern Europe and Russia itself is its vastness, meaning there has to be thousands good looking women that -
a) Want to Settle Down
b) Willing to Leave
I don't think this crisis will increase the overall numbers greatly, maybe in St Pete or Moscow may see some additional women to the pool but its the outlaying areas that are still producing women interested in long term relationships.
I guess it won't really change that much for people like me in the margins, but for players at the top of the food chain, prices with drop, proposals will go up (the indecent kind) and women used to living the high life (by Russian standards) could believe the gig is up and its time to move on.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Acolonizer]I agree with you, or better, I would like to agree with you. That is my hope, because that is substantially a good guy's hope.
But what I, and we, see in real life?
In big towns, nice girls are definitely emancipated, it is no possible a comeback, they are interested in their work career and to have a good time, they are more open-minded than their Western similars, but they are on the way. I think Moscow scene will change little in spite of global recession.
High probability of successful relationships with young and nice girls in medium and small towns, but fluent Russian and a lot of time needed.
I haven't visited Moscow yet. I am keeping updated about Moscow. I have been to Kiev six times in one year. I am not sure at 100%, but I see a big difference between Kiev people (what I see in real life) and Moscow people (what I read about Moscow).
In my humble opinion, Kiev girls are becoming similar to Westerners more quickly than Moscow girls, and I see some Ukrainian relationships that remind me Italian relationships.
Therefore, I think Moscow could offer more opportunities than Kiev because in Moscow there is less American cultural contamination and girls still think in a Russian way.
The second BIG BIG problem is: when I (we) loves a Russian girl and vice versa, what it will happen when I (we) take her to my (our) Western country? This happens: she will change her behaviour in two years and she could become very similar to her Western friends. Who can help us to solve this second BIG BIG problem?[/QUOTE]
I'm actually not that concerned with if she'll change or not people change anyway. There are ways of finding out just how serious the woman in question is and it also starts in the interview process.
If she's 18-23, maybe 24 then yes you can call into question her level of seriousness and how she might be effected by Western Culture up close and personal. While dating women that young would be a nice option, I'm just happy that women as young as 24 are looking for marriage and children with men as old as myself (38), which is virtually impossible in other first world countries.
Its not all gloom and doom, its not like girls have stop going to agencies and the internet to meet their future husbands. Its just become harder to sift through players and hustlers.
I think this thread is primarily for people that visit Russia on a regular basis and are looking to meet women in the areas they are in and general advice with these women.
If your as GT puts it like me and semi serious about this I think you can still go through the usual channels and find a girl.
I am sure this is a interesting topic for everybody. Here we talk about women in general and not just about P4P.
People change but they usually don't change dramaticaly. People change dramaticaly only if they cheat or they have psychological disorders or they are drug addicted.
Some years ago, I have your same opinion but now I have open my eyes because of my home-made statistics: every woman in the world, for her own genetics, wants something. Mainly 3C: cocks cash children = CCC. And the man is just a tool to get her purpose.
Yes, that's wonderful, young girls are interested to us, we are no more twenty but no old at all! , we deserve them more than most soulless playboys.
But if we live with our Russian women in Russia, the cultural context keep women in a Russian mindset. Instead, if we live with our Russian women in U. S. A. , the American background will standardize all women's behaviour, in spite of age, education and origin. Yes, we are happy with our 24 years old woman. Until she will find a better deal: maybe never, maybe tomorrow.
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]I'm actually not that concerned with if she'll change or not people change anyway. There are ways of finding out just how serious the woman in question is and it also starts in the interview process.
If she's 18-23, maybe 24 then yes you can call into question her level of seriousness and how she might be effected by Western Culture up close and personal. While dating women that young would be a nice option, I'm just happy that women as young as 24 are looking for marriage and children with men as old as myself (38), which is virtually impossible in other first world countries.
Its not all gloom and doom, its not like girls have stop going to agencies and the internet to meet their future husbands. Its just become harder to sift through players and hustlers.
I think this thread is primarily for people that visit Russia on a regular basis and are looking to meet women in the areas they are in and general advice with these women.
If your as GT puts it like me and semi serious about this I think you can still go through the usual channels and find a girl.[/QUOTE]
If we are talking about top tier women, then I would be inclined to agree with you. But just like money doesn't always lead to happiness, having the finest woman to be your wife doesn't automatically mean trouble free bliss.
Western Culture as a whole isn't all that terrible, its when taken in excess that problems arise. In fact lest us not remember that "Greed" was embraced by Boris Yeltsin and Ronald Regan and that in turn has tarnished the single woman pool world wide in both countries.
Let us also not forget the many uninformed "boobs" wandering around without the knowledge spread and shared on this web site.
Do Russian Women have knowledge of "Sex Tourist"? Yes, but do we have knowledge of "Scam Artist"? Yes - We have come to terms...
In the end though, its generally accepted that American women are loony. Why would a Russian woman with a grain of common sense would want to emulate that????
The key is finding one with some sense in her head!
[QUOTE=Acolonizer]I am sure this is a interesting topic for everybody. Here we talk about women in general and not just about P4P.
People change but they usually don't change dramaticaly. People change dramaticaly only if they cheat or they have psychological disorders or they are drug addicted.
Some years ago, I have your same opinion but now I have open my eyes because of my home-made statistics: every woman in the world, for her own genetics, wants something. Mainly 3C: cocks cash children = CCC. And the man is just a tool to get her purpose.
Yes, that's wonderful, young girls are interested to us, we are no more twenty but no old at all! , we deserve them more than most soulless playboys.
But if we live with our Russian women in Russia, the cultural context keep women in a Russian mindset. Instead, if we live with our Russian women in U. S. A. , the American background will standardize all women's behaviour, in spite of age, education and origin. Yes, we are happy with our 24 years old woman. Until she will find a better deal: maybe never, maybe tomorrow.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Acolonizer]
In real life In big towns, nice girls are emancipated, interested in career and a good time, they are open-minded
What will happen when we take her to our Western country?
Then she will change her behaviour and become very similar to her Western friends.
Who can solve this BIG problem?
[/QUOTE]
You ACTUALLY think, there is a solution to THIS???
You started by saying, "In real life".
Well, this IS real life.
THERE IS NO SOLUTION!! This IS exactly what happens. 100% of the time with 100% of them. Does not matter where a girl is from, you bring her to the West, and she changes, she adapts.
Realize this, accept and, stop thinking there is a way AROUND it, and you will be better off, than fantasizing that there is some magic formula to stop it or avoid it.
You're not gonna lock her in a closet or a basement. You will either find a way to deal with her changing, or you will fail. Plain and simple.
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]If we are talking about top tier women, then I would be inclined to agree with you. But just like money doesn't always lead to happiness, having the finest woman to be your wife doesn't automatically mean trouble free bliss.
Western Culture as a whole isn't all that terrible, its when taken in excess that problems arise. In fact lest us not remember that "Greed" was embraced by Boris Yeltsin and Ronald Regan and that in turn has tarnished the single woman pool world wide in both countries.
Let us also not forget the many uninformed "boobs" wandering around without the knowledge spread and shared on this web site.
Do Russian Women have knowledge of "Sex Tourist"? Yes, but do we have knowledge of "Scam Artist"? Yes. We have come to terms.
In the end though, its generally accepted that American women are loony. Why would a Russian woman with a grain of common sense would want to emulate that?
The key is finding one with some sense in her head! [/QUOTE]As the saying goes Famimualarity breeds contempt. You are RIGHT on the money Bez. Let the young bucks believe what they want. You can't put an OLD head on young shoulders. Life is a learning experience. You can lead a horse to water but that doesn't mean the horse will drink it.
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]You ACTUALLY think, there is a solution to THIS???
You started by saying, "In real life".
Well, this IS real life.
THERE IS NO SOLUTION!! This IS exactly what happens. 100% of the time with 100% of them. Does not matter where a girl is from, you bring her to the West, and she changes, she adapts.
Realize this, accept and, stop thinking there is a way AROUND it, and you will be better off, than fantasizing that there is some magic formula to stop it or avoid it.
You're not gonna lock her in a closet or a basement. You will either find a way to deal with her changing, or you will fail. Plain and simple.[/QUOTE]Bez, you are absolutely spot on in your assertion.
I have a Russian friend who lives in Dallas, Texas. Moved to the US in 1991, went to b-school and got an MBA. Went into the investment banking business and had a ball all the way thru the 90's digging the uptown scene and having a fun time getting laid every third night. But he didn't care for the western attitude of the local Texas gals and, while they were fun to spend money on and screw, he didn't feel like he could settle down with one. He yearned for a nice Russian girl from back home that he could settle down with.
So in 2005, he found a girl in Moscow and brought her back to live in fine style in "The Big D". Wanna guess what happened? Two kids later she is fully assimilated and has taken on the domestic attitudes of all of her friends in Dallas PLUS has retained the ability of Russian women to "rag" on their husband mercilessly. Not only has the sex tap been shut off for the better part of a year, but she has learned the ability to spend money like there's no tomorrow. So instead of getting the best of both worlds, my buddy tells me he has gotten the worst of both worlds.
Now, I am not saying that this is a perfectly representative case, but it's a data point. Take it for what it's worth.
Yes, unfortunately, the truth is so. The best solution is living and fucking in their Russian environment. Unfortunately, again, everybody can't work and get a girl in Russia.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Bez, you are absolutely spot on in your assertion.
I have a Russian friend who lives in Dallas, Texas. Moved to the US in 1991, went to b-school and got an MBA. Went into the investment banking business and had a ball all the way thru the 90's digging the uptown scene and having a fun time getting laid every third night. But he didn't care for the western attitude of the local Texas gals and, while they were fun to spend money on and screw, he didn't feel like he could settle down with one. He yearned for a nice Russian girl from back home that he could settle down with.
So in 2005, he found a girl in Moscow and brought her back to live in fine style in "The Big D". Wanna guess what happened? Two kids later she is fully assimilated and has taken on the domestic attitudes of all of her friends in Dallas PLUS has retained the ability of Russian women to "rag" on their husband mercilessly. Not only has the sex tap been shut off for the better part of a year, but she has learned the ability to spend money like there's no tomorrow. So instead of getting the best of both worlds, my buddy tells me he has gotten the worst of both worlds.
Now, I am not saying that this is a perfectly representative case, but it's a data point. Take it for what it's worth.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]You ACTUALLY think, there is a solution to THIS???
You started by saying, "In real life".
Well, this IS real life.
THERE IS NO SOLUTION!! This IS exactly what happens. 100% of the time with 100% of them. Does not matter where a girl is from, you bring her to the West, and she changes, she adapts.
Realize this, accept and, stop thinking there is a way AROUND it, and you will be better off, than fantasizing that there is some magic formula to stop it or avoid it.
You're not gonna lock her in a closet or a basement. You will either find a way to deal with her changing, or you will fail. Plain and simple.[/QUOTE]Hey Bez, you sound just like Dr Phil on a good day. So maybe you can help me ...
I 'dated' a Russian girl last night (see Dubai photos). She wouldn't kiss much on the first date, but she just about dislocated Little Piper with her energetic blowjobs. Dr. Bez - Is this normal Russian girl first-date behavior?
[QUOTE=Piper1]
Hey Bez, Dr Phil a gay maybe can help me ...
a Russian girl dislocated Lil Pip with her blowjob.
Dr. Bez - Is this normal Russian girl first-date behavior?
[/QUOTE]
Pimper.
Yes, the devushka fembot you activiated with your financial know-how, was pre-programed by Russian dentists that had secretly implanted special ISG protocol "penis-magnet" fillings drilled into her jaw bone during regular dental procedures when she was growing up in the FSU.
All young russian females have been adapted through Jackson and CA Traveler's Leon Trotsky inspired stealth subterfuge counter-espionage oral health care government sponsored 5 year plan to prepare them for economic stimulus in the post Soviet hemisphere of influence. The second part of this amazing little known post-nuclear winter holocost survival scenario involves the informal babushka delicatessen hot-dog practice swallowing training programs, where the old women demonstrate to university students, the art of breathing with hot dogs in their throats, without gagging, and with their nostrils pinched closed. After they have mastered this technique, the babushkas transform into mamachkas, and send forth into the black market workforce, these young able bodied knob-gobbling fellatists in their masterful scheme for world blowjob domination.
I'm proud to say that your experience in UAE is merely a small sampling of proof that this program is active and flourishing across the globe, and that the hostile takeover of the zipper market is well on its way. It won't be long until all of us are standing at attention, saluting the knee-pad brigade led by Colonel Doktor Irina Spalko, 3 time winner of the new world Order of Lenin and the People's Chin-ball pearl necklace recipient for the 3rd millenium Czarina of Sperma.
Lhastachka y Zdarovya!
Great! This is another wisdom could change a life.
Unfortunately I knew that too late and my pigest one-in-a-lifetime female has run away.
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Pimper.
Yes, the devushka fembot you activiated with your financial know-how, was pre-programed by Russian dentists that had secretly implanted special ISG protocol "penis-magnet" fillings drilled into her jaw bone during regular dental procedures when she was growing up in the FSU.
All young russian females have been adapted through Jackson and CA Traveler's Leon Trotsky inspired stealth subterfuge counter-espionage oral health care government sponsored 5 year plan to prepare them for economic stimulus in the post Soviet hemisphere of influence. The second part of this amazing little known post-nuclear winter holocost survival scenario involves the informal babushka delicatessen hot-dog practice swallowing training programs, where the old women demonstrate to university students, the art of breathing with hot dogs in their throats, without gagging, and with their nostrils pinched closed. After they have mastered this technique, the babushkas transform into mamachkas, and send forth into the black market workforce, these young able bodied knob-gobbling fellatists in their masterful scheme for world blowjob domination.
I'm proud to say that your experience in UAE is merely a small sampling of proof that this program is active and flourishing across the globe, and that the hostile takeover of the zipper market is well on its way. It won't be long until all of us are standing at attention, saluting the knee-pad brigade led by Colonel Doktor Irina Spalko, 3 time winner of the new world Order of Lenin and the People's Chin-ball pearl necklace recipient for the 3rd millenium Czarina of Sperma.
Lhastachka y Zdarovya![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Pimper.
Yes, the devushka fembot you activiated with your financial know-how, was pre-programed by Russian dentists that had secretly implanted special ISG protocol "penis-magnet" fillings drilled into her jaw bone during regular dental procedures when she was growing up in the FSU.
All young russian females have been adapted through Jackson and CA Traveler's Leon Trotsky inspired stealth subterfuge counter-espionage oral health care government sponsored 5 year plan to prepare them for economic stimulus in the post Soviet hemisphere of influence. The second part of this amazing little known post-nuclear winter holocost survival scenario involves the informal babushka delicatessen hot-dog practice swallowing training programs, where the old women demonstrate to university students, the art of breathing with hot dogs in their throats, without gagging, and with their nostrils pinched closed. After they have mastered this technique, the babushkas transform into mamachkas, and send forth into the black market workforce, these young able bodied knob-gobbling fellatists in their masterful scheme for world blowjob domination.
I'm proud to say that your experience in UAE is merely a small sampling of proof that this program is active and flourishing across the globe, and that the hostile takeover of the zipper market is well on its way. It won't be long until all of us are standing at attention, saluting the knee-pad brigade led by Colonel Doktor Irina Spalko, 3 time winner of the new world Order of Lenin and the People's Chin-ball pearl necklace recipient for the 3rd millenium Czarina of Sperma.
Lhastachka y Zdarovya![/QUOTE]Wow, I didn't realize the innocent looking blonde on her knees was part of a subversive conspiracy to bring the world to its knees. Next time I'll refuse her BJ, for the good of humanity. Thanks Dr. Bez, I knew I could count on you.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Bez, you are absolutely spot on in your assertion.
I have a Russian friend who lives in Dallas, Texas. Moved to the US in 1991, went to b-school and got an MBA. Went into the investment banking business and had a ball all the way thru the 90's digging the uptown scene and having a fun time getting laid every third night. But he didn't care for the western attitude of the local Texas gals and, while they were fun to spend money on and screw, he didn't feel like he could settle down with one. He yearned for a nice Russian girl from back home that he could settle down with.
So in 2005, he found a girl in Moscow and brought her back to live in fine style in "The Big D". Wanna guess what happened? Two kids later she is fully assimilated and has taken on the domestic attitudes of all of her friends in Dallas PLUS has retained the ability of Russian women to "rag" on their husband mercilessly. Not only has the sex tap been shut off for the better part of a year, but she has learned the ability to spend money like there's no tomorrow. So instead of getting the best of both worlds, my buddy tells me he has gotten the worst of both worlds.
Now, I am not saying that this is a perfectly representative case, but it's a data point. Take it for what it's worth.[/QUOTE]
I will agree with you, however I don't think people take the vetting process seriously (interviewing the woman in question). Most men are thinking "When Am I going to get into her jeans..." and half listening to the answers to the questions you have asked. I'm constantly amazed by the tales told by men that never knew their wife really, just the basics and not much else.
How else do you explain the high divorce rates? Yes American Women are largely at the center of the problem, but its also men's fault for making concessions when they aren't needed.
I don't profess to know the "Russian" mindset but as women are pretty much the same across the planet, only dynamics change a bit inside the relationship.
I think we can all agree than many take marriage and relationships WAY too lightly for the wrong reasons and focus on the shhh that's basically not important.
Yes, I agree completely with you.
I would like to add one more experience. It is pretty usual a lot of men and women keep their eyes closed because of their human feelings, in front of bad behaviours too.
OK, I know, it is necessary our brains work in relationships too. But the problem is not silly lovers, who give everything of themselves for free, but the problem is people who do everything just for their own convenience.
Unfortunately, this is the real world: speculation and strategy are needed in war, in economy and in "love". "Love" has nothing romantic inside.
Moreover, it is pretty usual we find our "twin soul" but, because of unlucky circumstances and our wrong strategy, we lose our "twin soul" forever. Then we find another good partner, good but not "twin soul", and we decide to have a family with his/her. Then we have a family and we are glad but not happy.
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]I will agree with you, however I don't think people take the vetting process seriously (interviewing the woman in question). Most men are thinking "When Am I going to get into her jeans..." and half listening to the answers to the questions you have asked. I'm constantly amazed by the tales told by men that never knew their wife really, just the basics and not much else.
How else do you explain the high divorce rates? Yes American Women are largely at the center of the problem, but its also men's fault for making concessions when they aren't needed.
I don't profess to know the "Russian" mindset but as women are pretty much the same across the planet, only dynamics change a bit inside the relationship.
I think we can all agree than many take marriage and relationships WAY too lightly for the wrong reasons and focus on the shhh that's basically not important.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Acolonizer]Yes, I agree completely with you.
I would like to add one more experience. It is pretty usual a lot of men and women keep their eyes closed because of their human feelings, in front of bad behaviours too.
OK, I know, it is necessary our brains work in relationships too. But the problem is not silly lovers, who give everything of themselves for free, but the problem is people who do everything just for their own convenience.
Unfortunately, this is the real world: speculation and strategy are needed in war, in economy and in "love". "Love" has nothing romantic inside.
Moreover, it is pretty usual we find our "twin soul" but, because of unlucky circumstances and our wrong strategy, we lose our "twin soul" forever. Then we find another good partner, good but not "twin soul", and we decide to have a family with his/her. Then we have a family and we are glad but not happy.[/QUOTE]
Agreed!
I met my "twin soul" I believe 10 years ago. Still haven't met anybody with the same raw sex appeal, passion, attitude and sense of humor. Not the hottest girl out there, but far above average looking and easily the best looking woman that had any interest in me.
So yes I'm in search for something close, at least 90%....
I'm going monthly to Russia and especially to Moscow for job; I'd like to ask if there are dating sites or social network ones to meet girls (not working), better free or, if they are good, paying something (not much!).
Maybe should useful to create a list of sites, starting from free sites.
What about that?
[QUOTE=Emzchi]I'm going monthly to Russia and especially to Moscow for job; I'd like to ask if there are dating sites or social network ones to meet girls (not working), better free or, if they are good, paying something (not much!).
Maybe should useful to create a list of sites, starting from free sites.
What about that?[/QUOTE]
There are a few. Many friends of mine (including guys on this board) use mamba.ru successfully - it's free, but you'll need to pay to get access to advanced search, elevate your profile, unlock other VIP features and so on.
There are pros, semi-pros (ie sponsor seekers) and freebies on there.
I have not ever dated a Russian girl. But my brother has been dating a Russian girl for the past four years. I have serious problems with her though. She says a lot of things, like, "I want to be your facebook friend, " or "I want for you to message me through my email so that we can be friends, " or "I'am going to introduce you to some of my female friends so that you can date one of them". What is with this girl she is 25 years old, so she is too old to be doing that bullshit.
[QUOTE=Castonthis]I have not ever dated a Russian girl. But my brother has been dating a Russian girl for the past four years. I have serious problems with her though. She says a lot of things, like, "I want to be your facebook friend, " or "I want for you to message me through my email so that we can be friends, " or "I'am going to introduce you to some of my female friends so that you can date one of them". What is with this girl she is 25 years old, so she is too old to be doing that bullshit.[/QUOTE]
She sounds like she's just trying to be nice with her boyfriends brother!
[QUOTE=Jon32]She sounds like she's just trying to be nice with her boyfriends brother! [/QUOTE]Don't say it, you know? Do it. If you are going to introduce me to women then do it. But the problem is that she is fake, I think. Because she hasn't done any of the things she says she will.
It occurred to me that I need not be ashamed to bring leggy, sluttily dressed prostitutes back to my hotel as my latest set of girlfriends look unashamedly just like leggy, sluttily dressed prostitutes. Hey kids, that's a good thing. I suppose. :)
Reason I love Russian girls number 506: Girlfriend's mom calls her just after our sex and they laugh and chat about her "sport activity" and she describes her orgasms to mom. What a world.
Reason I love Russian girls number 507: With gf1 headed back to home to mom, give gf2 a buzz online and she's inbound, eta 20 minutes.
Reason I hate Russian girls number 324: After meeting a regular on Tuesday with no sex, she promised me a great night on Wednesday, but cancelled when it was too late for me to make alternate plans. She said she'd meet me tonight instead, but this time I had plans B and C... which I both had to use since she cancelled again today citing "problems at home she had to solve". Considering she's online right now, I guess her problem is with me. Tomorrow she's sure to send me oodles of apologies and "skuchaio ochen"s. Biatch. She's past her prime anyway, turned 23. :)
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Girlfriend's mom calls her just after our sex and they laugh and chat about her "sport activity" and she describes her orgasms to mom.[/QUOTE]Doc, you poor guy, it must be tough to keep track of all these dyeffki (and wipe that shit-eating grin off your face!) :)
Maybe mamylochka would also like to come over sometime? Could be interesting, they could enjoy their "sport" together.
You have given me an inspiration, though, a Top 10 list of why we like Russian/Slavic woman. Can't think of any reasons why I don't (like them)...
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]You have given me an inspiration, though, a Top 10 list of why we like Russian/Slavic woman. Can't think of any reasons why I don't (like them)...[/QUOTE]Been thinking the same, although I definitely can think of the negative aspects too... some girls can grind on your nerves with their skittishness.
Good idea with the top ten list, it could be something "organic", meaning people could add and comment.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]some girls can grind on your nerves with their skittishness.[/QUOTE]Everything is relative. You need to spend more time in the States. I miss the skittish females of eastern Europe. Here the women are all locked & loaded and bristling with armament.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Been thinking the same, although I definitely can think of the negative aspects too... some girls can grind on your nerves with their skittishness.
Good idea with the top ten list, it could be something "organic", meaning people could add and comment.[/QUOTE]Strav / Doc - while there are precious few things I don't like about Russian / Slavic women, a few come to mind;
1. The DOUR side - they say that Scotsman can be dour, but Jock has got nothing on Ivan when it comes to being fatalistic, depressed and downright negative. With Russian / Slavic men it usually manifests itself in the form of fighting and drinking (not that there's anything wrong with that). But with the devushkas, when the dark side comes around watch out. And you ALL know what I'm talking about. While the latinas start screaming and throwing things around, the Russian / Slav girls get weird. Like a strange cloud of doom that descends over the room. If you are lucky they ignore you and give in to the urge to clean the house (again, not necessarily a bad thing), but sometimes it can be a huge pain in the ass with the crying and self loathing and depression that sometimes looks almost suicidal. While these traits are not exclusive to Russian / Slavic women by any means, they seem to have perfected a brand of this behavior and made it their own.
Now, if you are watching the football or looking to make a quick exit to go have beers with your pals, this can be viewed as a positive. But if it's affection you are looking for - FORGET IT. While the "cloud of doom" is visiting you might as well be trying to mate with an iceberg.
This is one of the best post in all over this forum: you have caught a Slavic women's secret.
I met the "cloud of doom" and also I met the "fierce crisis", when girls download all their own paranoias by all the worst lies and tricks to make you very angry.
The only solution is to forget that girl for some days. And this is a good reason to fuck another girl.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Strav / Doc - while there are precious few things I don't like about Russian / Slavic women, a few come to mind;
1. The DOUR side - they say that Scotsman can be dour, but Jock has got nothing on Ivan when it comes to being fatalistic, depressed and downright negative. With Russian / Slavic men it usually manifests itself in the form of fighting and drinking (not that there's anything wrong with that). But with the devushkas, when the dark side comes around watch out. And you ALL know what I'm talking about. While the latinas start screaming and throwing things around, the Russian / Slav girls get weird. Like a strange cloud of doom that descends over the room. If you are lucky they ignore you and give in to the urge to clean the house (again, not necessarily a bad thing), but sometimes it can be a huge pain in the ass with the crying and self loathing and depression that sometimes looks almost suicidal. While these traits are not exclusive to Russian / Slavic women by any means, they seem to have perfected a brand of this behavior and made it their own.
Now, if you are watching the football or looking to make a quick exit to go have beers with your pals, this can be viewed as a positive. But if it's affection you are looking for - FORGET IT. While the "cloud of doom" is visiting you might as well be trying to mate with an iceberg.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jake993]they say that Scotsman can be dour, but Jock has got nothing on Ivan when it comes to being fatalistic, depressed and downright negative.[/QUOTE]It's true, Russians can be very "deep": both men and women. Not sure if that's a matter of nature or nurture. I think if I lived my whole life in Russia, I would be deep also. Russians went from the tyranny of the Tsar, to the tyranny of the Bolsheviks and then the Soviets, with hardly a chance to take a breath. Just a few months between the March revolution and the October revolution. Perhaps they've been living that way for so long, depression has been genetically hard-coded.
I've known quite a few Russian women here in the States and they do seem to pull out of it, once they have a chance to live in "normal" (and I use that term advisedly) western society. But then, there is a whole 'nother problem as they become Americanized. Which requires that you find another "untouched" Russian beauty.
Other than that, I can't think of anything else I don't like about Russian women. I can certainly think of many more things I like about Russian women than I don't like.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]
But there is the problem as they become Americanized.
I can't think of anything else I don't like about Russian women.
I can certainly think of many more things I like about Russian women than I don't like.
[/QUOTE]
The trick is to actually find one that is immune to Americanization. After I got lucky and found one here at Blockbuster one day, I was with her on and off for 2 years, and in all that time, she never wore make up, she always stayed quiet, except when we would have an argument, but that was actually part of her russian craziness, and had nothing to do with being in the USA. But unlike all the annoying american chicks, she never messed with the radio in my car, she never got greedy. In bed, she stayed the same shy sweet girl, who would wait 20 minutes after sex laying together before she got up to go wash. She never took anything of mine, never looked through my stuff, never ate very much, never would try any drugs of any kind, she even kept her little occasional body odor, if I caught a whiff, I'd just take her in the shower and scrub her up. She head that perfect little blond Siberian body with the hairs on her arms and above her ass crack, and she could take as much dick as I could give her until I ran out of gas.
I miss Olga. :(
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]
I miss Olga. :([/QUOTE] I would miss that too.
Thing #2 - (well, it's sort of an extension of #1 but could be treated separately for the purposes of this discussion.)
"THE LET'S RISK EVERYTHING TO SEE IF HE REALLY LIKES ME DEATH SPIRAL"
Again, this is not exclusive to Russian / Slavic women but they seem to have put their own twist on it.
Everything is going fine. You're getting along, the sex is good, she might even be letting you do anal once every few times. And the all of a sudden from left field, she makes a wild-ass accusation that could almost be interpreted as jealousy. But it's not REALLY an accusation but more like a grenade. She "lobs" one in there to stir up the shit knowing full well that there's a pretty fair chance you will say, "I don't need this shit" and walk out the door.
Whereas American (and other Western) women will give you the, "I just know where we are going with this relationship" line, the Russian / Slavic girls will lay it out on the line, take a HUGE risk and provoke the crap out of you almost "DARING YOU" to walk out the door and confirm their worst fear that you don't really like (love) them and that you are really just deceiving them and treating them like the worthless wastrels they really are.
Sound familiar? Anyone? Anyone?
It's like they are saying to themselves, "OK this is going too good. What's wrong? He's treating me too good. Is he fucking someone else? I have to put everything on the line just in case he is screwing someone else so I can save my dignity. Because of course my dignity is sooo much more important that this asshole...... whom I happen to be in love with. Unless he is screwing someone else then then I hate him."
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]I miss Olga. :([/QUOTE]Bez,
You sly dog, you! Here I thought you were living like a monk in the U.S., between your sexual expeditions to the provinces, and all the while you had Olga tucked between the sheets.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Sound familiar? Anyone? Anyone?[/QUOTE]Jake,
Message received and understood.
I think life in Russia is tough. I don't think any Western man, no matter how much time you have spent there, can truly appreciate how difficult life is in eastern Europe, particularly for a woman. And I'm not talking about the paiyushina trusi or the fashionistas with the oligarch boyfriends, who inhabit the night clubs of Moscow. I'm talking about regular girls; working girls, single moms, studyentki, etc.
Which reminds me of something else I admire about Russian women: just like the ballerina, they can suffer through the most agonizing pain and yet look absolutely beautiful doing it. Maybe that's why Russians make the best ballerinas, for them it's just like life.
But, I digress...
American women have it pretty easy nowadays. They live in a society that they have crafted themselves for their own comfort and security. They don't really need men for much of anything anymore, except maybe an emotional connection, now and then, and some regular sex (jeez, they're worse than us!). As you point out, the only question they might ask is, "Where is this relationship going?"
But for the Russian woman, it's a whole different ball game. Because life is so difficult, she needs a man who will be like a wall behind her back. Someone she can count on, not some wimp who will duck out at the first sign of trouble. So, yes, you're right, when she lobs that grenade at you, she is daring you to leave. She is asking the proverbial question, "Stud, or houseboy?" She wants to know now, that you will still be around when the shit [b]really[/b] hits the fan.
[QUOTE=Castonthis]Don't say it, you know? Do it. If you are going to introduce me to women then do it. But the problem is that she is fake, I think. Because she hasn't done any of the things she says she will.[/QUOTE]
Ah ok, she is full of it with the shit she says. Yeah that sucks. I'm always trying to hit up friends girls for chicas also...
Probably the type of people I hate most are the ones who talk up things and never follow through also...
[QUOTE=Jon32]
Probably the type of people I hate most are the ones who talk up things and never follow through also...[/QUOTE] There's no greater waste of time (and money) is there? The problem is that the creature you describe has found a home for itself at Night Flight.
Hello all,
Please, I request your advice.
I have been exchanging emails and photos with a nice Russian girl. We have agreed to meet for the first time on a trip to Turkey for a few days, and of course, she expects me to pay for everything.
I do not mind paying, but I do not want to be taken advantage of. For example if I pay everything for her, but then she refuses to have sex.
I have been thinking things such as sending her just a one way ticket, keeping her return ticket for myself, if she is not cooperative.
What do you recommend?
Thanks for your advice. Regards. B.B.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy]Hello all,
Please, I request your advice.
I have been exchanging emails and photos with a nice Russian girl. We have agreed to meet for the first time on a trip to Turkey for a few days, and of course, she expects me to pay for everything.
I do not mind paying, but I do not want to be taken advantage of. For example if I pay everything for her, but then she refuses to have sex.
I have been thinking things such as sending her just a one way ticket, keeping her return ticket for myself, if she is not cooperative.
What do you recommend?
Thanks for your advice. Regards. B.B.[/QUOTE]If she is staying in your hotel, you'll be fucking her. Really can't imagine any other scenario there.
Did you buy her ticket already? Electronic ticket in her name?
[quote=doctor_skank]if she is staying in your hotel, you'll be fucking her. really can't imagine any other scenario there.
did you buy her ticket already? electronic ticket in her name?[/quote]
well, even if she stays in my room, she could refuse sex ... and i do not imagine me [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] her.
i am just concerned about the girl just being a shark.
no, i did not buy any ticket yet. all airplane tickets are nominative.
any advice?
thanks regards. b.b.
[quote=bimbo boy]well, even if she stays in my room, she could refuse sex ... and i do not imagine me [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] her.
i am just concerned about the girl just being a shark.
no, i did not buy any ticket yet. all airplane tickets are nominative.
any advice?
thanks regards. b.b.[/quote]well if you buy an e-ticket, it has to be in her name and she doesn't physically need the ticket to get a boarding pass, her passport will do. you can still kick her out of your hotel room i suppose.
nonetheless, i propose a more conventional method... just be charming, a bit romantic and get some drink in her and she'll put out if you put the moves on.
if she doesn't i'd be really surprised, she knows you aren't inviting her out of the pure goodness of your heart.
in my opinion a shark wouldn't behave this way. what good would it do her to get a free trip to turkey if she plans on holding out on you? she'd know you'd be pissed and might kick her out of the room or worse. doesn't sound like she'd have much to gain from that.
a shark would ask you for money.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Well if you buy an e-ticket, it has to be in her name and she doesn't physically need the ticket to get a boarding pass, her passport will do. You can still kick her out of your hotel room I suppose.
Nonetheless, I propose a more conventional method... just be charming, a bit romantic and get some drink in her and she'll put out if you put the moves on.
If she doesn't I'd be really surprised, she knows you aren't inviting her out of the pure goodness of your heart.
In my opinion a shark wouldn't behave this way. What good would it do her to get a free trip to Turkey if she plans on holding out on you? She'd know you'd be pissed and might kick her out of the room or worse. Doesn't sound like she'd have much to gain from that.
A shark would ask you for money.[/QUOTE] I agree with Doctor Skank - I have made the attempt to invite 3 Russian women on a mini-vacation with me. On all three occasions I had not previously had sex with the ladies. The result on two of the three girls was sex on the first night we arrived on location (and every morning, noon and night thereafter) and with the third one...... well, let's just say the offer was enough to smoke out a phony and I never heard from her again.
BTW - this is a funny story actually because with the first of the three, we had actually slept together without sex not once but TWICE. Mostly because she was too drunk to drive home and yet she was a but old fashioned and didn't want to screw me too soon. At the time I felt like a heel and quite the putz. But I liked her and she is pretty classy so I said WTF.
Don't forget - she's a woman, the prospect of a vacation with you is a romantic affair that will simmer and then boil over with time. If she has anymore than a week to think about it you probably won't need any more than an egg timer to measure the time from hotel room door to bed.
I say throw caution to the wind and go for it. She knows good and well why she's there. Hell, she wants you to screw her brains out as much as you do. She just wants to make sure you are emotionally (read financially) invested in the venture as she is.
[QUOTE=Jake993]
I say throw caution to the wind and go for it. She knows good and well why she's there. Hell, she wants you to screw her brains out as much as you do. She just wants to make sure you are emotionally (read financially) invested in the venture as she is.[/QUOTE]
Well guys, this makes a lot of sense!
Thanks for the advice.
Kind regards.
B.B.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy]Well guys, this makes a lot of sense!
Thanks for the advice.
Kind regards.
B.B.[/QUOTE]And another thing, in my experience the vast majority of girls know when sex is just sex. They may entertain romantic dreams and intentions, but I've found the majority are happy settling into just a casual sex relationship as long as it fits into their parameters. Being on holiday with a guy is most definitely within almost every girl's parameters. I don't know if she is Ukrainian or Russian, but Russian girls are very realistic about life and very easy-going once you get to know them AND you are a presentable companion in what they consider their social class. This is a subject in itself. Ukrainian girls are fruitier and in many ways, stupider and flakier.
Put it this way, when they want to get something from a man, Russian girls are cunning whereas Ukrainian girls are conniving.
Only exceptions that would mean you aren't getting laid on opening night are that I can think of would be if there was absolutely no physical attraction, she was a truly cunning and gutsy shark who will ask for money, or she was a truly vindictive and mean man-hating wench or she was a virgin and holding out for real commitment.
The first I don't know about, but the last 3 exceptions seem rather unlikely to me... and in cases of 2 and 3 you could kick her out and pursue other girls, case 4 would be a judgement call if you want to be "that guy".
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]And another thing, in my experience the vast majority of girls know when sex is just sex. They may entertain romantic dreams and intentions, but I've found the majority are happy settling into just a casual sex relationship as long as it fits into their parameters. Being on holiday with a guy is most definitely within almost every girl's parameters. I don't know if she is Ukrainian or Russian, but Russian girls are very realistic about life and very easy-going once you get to know them AND you are a presentable companion in what they consider their social class. This is a subject in itself. Ukrainian girls are fruitier and in many ways, stupider and flakier.
Put it this way, when they want to get something from a man, Russian girls are cunning whereas Ukrainian girls are conniving.
Only exceptions that would mean you aren't getting laid on opening night are that I can think of would be if there was absolutely no physical attraction, she was a truly cunning and gutsy shark who will ask for money, or she was a truly vindictive and mean man-hating wench or she was a virgin and holding out for real commitment.
The first I don't know about, but the last 3 exceptions seem rather unlikely to me... and in cases of 2 and 3 you could kick her out and pursue other girls, case 4 would be a judgement call if you want to be "that guy".[/QUOTE]
The more I learn about women (Russian, Ukrainian, or otherwise) the more I realize how much I don't know. Just when you have things all figured out and understand how the relationship will go, BOOM - another curve ball and a change in direction. I had a situation on the last trip where I was SURE we had comfortably settled in to a purely financial arrangement after 6 months and as many visits. All of a sudden, she decides that she does not want cash. Gifts are ok but now she does not want cash. I am assuming that this is actually an early "danger sign" and should move to condition orange, but this was completely out of left field. What's going on here? Is she developing feelings and hoping for a longer term relationship? Or is this part of that cunning / conniving thing waiting to bite me in the ass?
[QUOTE=Jake993]The more I learn about women (Russian, Ukrainian, or otherwise) the more I realize how much I don't know. Just when you have things all figured out and understand how the relationship will go, BOOM - another curve ball and a change in direction. I had a situation on the last trip where I was SURE we had comfortably settled in to a purely financial arrangement after 6 months and as many visits. All of a sudden, she decides that she does not want cash. Gifts are ok but now she does not want cash. I am assuming that this is actually an early "danger sign" and should move to condition orange, but this was completely out of left field. What's going on here? Is she developing feelings and hoping for a longer term relationship? Or is this part of that cunning / conniving thing waiting to bite me in the ass?[/QUOTE]
Why would that be a surprising "curve ball"? Do you think Prostitutes marrying "Johns" is pure fantasy? It happens more often than you think.
Whatever you think about PornStars/Strippers/Escorts/Call Girls I think the same rules apply - [url]http://therealsavoy.********.com/2007/06/how-to-date-porn-star.html[/url]
If you really think this came out of Left Field; Danger Will Robinson, Danger!
It should be expected. Do you treat this woman like shit? Let's be honest for a second.
Do you have ANY idea how hard it is to find a man that would accept your a Prostitute?
Just have a look at the "Morality of Prostitution" thread and times that by 100.
So if MOST men have this preconceived notion of "women" the answer would be "extremely hard".
If you buy this woman nice things, take her places, please her sexually, holy cow man unless you found a hard core user, I think its safe to stay she's falling for you without saying as much. She might not want to tell you thinking you would drop her.
This "cunning and conniving" The good Doctor mentions finds its own victims.
I totally believe you disarm women if you don't let the lure of sex rule you.
Sex is their NUMBER 1 Weapon against Men
BB,
I can't give any feed-back as I have never been to holidays with a diev, paying for he rflight ticket or expenses, and then hoping getting something from her.
But what is 100% sure, is that:
- this is quite common practice in russia, and many website offers this possibility
- russian girls have a rude life and holidays for them means drink, sun and sex. If someone can pay for this, and guarantee that they would have at least the "sex" part, then they are delighted... It is like someone is paying to offer to them what they want...
So, if the flight ticket doesn't cost so much and the girl looks pretty, I would certainly do it.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Gifts are OK but now she does not want cash. I am assuming that this is actually an early "danger sign" and should move to condition orange, but this was completely out of left field. What's going on here?[/QUOTE]It could be she is angling for a more permanent relationship (with a ring and a pod-Moskovnaya dacha).
Or, it could have nothing to do with you at all. I think prostitution for Russian women is not so clear cut as it is here in the U.S. Many Russian women take money from men for sex and would never consider themselves to be prostitutes. So this can create a lot of confusion in their minds sometimes. Perhaps she is just having second thoughts about her wh@ring days and is looking to create the illusion of legitimacy for her own peace of mind and self esteem.
In any event, you definitely want to discuss it with her and clarify what are your intentions and her expectations.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]It could be she is angling for a more permanent relationship (with a ring and a pod-Moskovnaya dacha).
Or, it could have nothing to do with you at all. I think prostitution for Russian women is not so clear cut as it is here in the U.S. Many Russian women take money from men for sex and would never consider themselves to be prostitutes. So this can create a lot of confusion in their minds sometimes. Perhaps she is just having second thoughts about her wh@ring days and is looking to create the illusion of legitimacy for her own peace of mind and self esteem.
In any event, you definitely want to discuss it with her and clarify what are your intentions and her expectations.[/QUOTE] Strav and DJ4 - thanks for the moral support. However, since posting that message I have reconsidered the situation, given my head a shake and asked myself, "What are you whining about"? This girl wants to fuck my brains out, doesn't want me to pay her in cash like it's a commercial transaction and I want to know WHY? Can someone come over here and slap me please?
I have a good thing going here and I am on the brink of fucking it up with stupid questions.
It's like taking apart a radio just to see how it works. You know damned well you can't put it back together and that it won't work once you've taken it apart. You won't REALLY learn anything by dismantling it and yet you take it apart anyhow. Some things are better just not knowing.
BB,
I went on a vacation recently with a ukrainian lady. I found her on Mamba and she had a listing under the travel partners section.
We went to an all inclusive Jamaica resort , and I paid for everything (flight, hotel, misc costs.
Some notes on the experience
-to my chagrin/benefit she turned out to be quite a well traveled, classy upscale girl. I had presumed she would be the an economically disadvantaged eastern european hottie. But she was actually an upper middle class parttime model. Very smart, but also a bit of a handful
-sex was great and happened the first night, despite her having flown a long way.
-we encountered some challenges from 7 days of living in each others pocket (ie shared room)
-she got sick, (fever, etc) which put a big of a crimp in our plans
-she bought various gifts/trinkets (fridge magnets, etc) for her friends and family. I was taken aback when she started shopping in the gift shop the first day, but I know understand that it would be considered rude and unthoughtful if she returned home with nothing for her friends and family. Total cost for the gifts for her and others was about $350.
-total cost for the week for both of us, all costs, $5500. Considering that I also got a weeks vacation, the cost for having her there with me was about half that. More than half of her cost was the airfare from Kiev.
Conclusions?
I'd suggest having met the girl first. (We had not, but we had a lot of common interests, and felt strangely comfortable right from the start). We spoke on the phone a lot before we left.
I sent as many documents/etc as I could to reassure her that she wasn't arriving to a white slavery operation or something. Copies of all the documents, prebooked taxi for airport to resort transfer. Advised her I was giving her $100 for any incidental travel expenses.
Biggest mistake? Not taking enough time to sit down and talk pragmatically about her priorities/interests/needs during the week. We both rushed into the romantic part of the trip, not wanting to spoil it with "business talk", and that led to some misunderstandings.
Still, it was quite an experience to be escorting this extremely beautiful, intelligent girl. Even with her three days of illness (yes, 3 days, terrible luck for us), it was still a great trip.
feel free to pm me for more discussion/details
fj
Jake,
I believe you have already answered your own question. :)
[QUOTE=Jake993]Thing #2
"THE LET'S RISK EVERYTHING TO SEE IF HE REALLY LIKES ME DEATH SPIRAL"
Again, this is not exclusive to Russian / Slavic women but they seem to have put their own twist on it.
Everything is going fine. You're getting along, the sex is good, she might even be letting you do anal once every few times. And the all of a sudden from left field, she makes a wild-ass accusation that could almost be interpreted as jealousy. But it's not REALLY an accusation but more like a grenade. She "lobs" one in there to stir up the shit knowing full well that there's a pretty fair chance you will say, "I don't need this shit" and walk out the door.
Sound familiar? Anyone? Anyone?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jake993]Strav and DJ4 - thanks for the moral support. However, since posting that message I have reconsidered the situation, given my head a shake and asked myself, "What are you whining about"? This girl wants to fuck my brains out, doesn't want me to pay her in cash like it's a commercial transaction and I want to know WHY? Can someone come over here and slap me please?
I have a good thing going here and I am on the brink of fucking it up with stupid questions.
It's like taking apart a radio just to see how it works. You know damned well you can't put it back together and that it won't work once you've taken it apart. You won't REALLY learn anything by dismantling it and yet you take it apart anyhow. Some things are better just not knowing.[/QUOTE]
If I had a clue about how to flag this as a "Report of Distinction" I would!
I love the taking apart a radio analogy!
However I think it is important for you to remind yourself constantly of this shift in the relationship. Sure it's great getting fabulous "free" sex now, but you know something else is going to change. And of course, even though the sex is no longer a cash transaction, that doesn't make it free or even cheap. As your girlfriend, she may feel she is entitled to more presents or subsidies than she was as your fuck-bunny. And maybe that's fine, nothing in life is free, it is just important to recognize the costs as they rack up. In the meantime make sure there are no sharp knives in the kitchen, since you don't know when the next twist in this tale is coming...
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Jake,
I believe you have already answered your own question. :)[/QUOTE]Hello - my name is Jake and I have no memory. ;)
[QUOTE=Fijiman]BB,
I went on a vacation recently with a ukrainian lady. I found her on Mamba and she had a listing under the travel partners section.
We went to an all inclusive Jamaica resort , and I paid for everything (flight, hotel, misc costs.
Some notes on the experience
-to my chagrin/benefit she turned out to be quite a well traveled, classy upscale girl. I had presumed she would be the an economically disadvantaged eastern european hottie. But she was actually an upper middle class parttime model. Very smart, but also a bit of a handful
-sex was great and happened the first night, despite her having flown a long way...
Total cost for the gifts for her and others was about $350.
-total cost for the week for both of us, all costs, $5500. Considering that I also got a weeks vacation, the cost for having her there with me was about half that. More than half of her cost was the airfare from Kiev.
Still, it was quite an experience to be escorting this extremely beautiful, intelligent girl. Even with her three days of illness (yes, 3 days, terrible luck for us), it was still a great trip.
fj[/QUOTE]
This is interesting, I am heading to Jamaica in a couple of weeks for a conference and also tried Mamba to find a bed-warming companion. Did not get as much response as I expected, although I was mostly passive, waiting for girls to respond to my ad. Had a couple of nibbles, but they looked too much like scammers so I did not really pursue them. Also the economics of bringing a girl from Ukraine or Russia to the Caribbean did not look appealing to my price-sensitive wallet, $2,000 can go a long way towards paying for pleasure!
Was there any problem getting a visa? I assume it is not as difficult as for her to visit the US or Canada, but it just meant another uncertainty and risk.
So next I tried targeting Mamba girls that lived nearby - cities I visit frequently on business. The principle here being that I might get a better ROI by using the trip to recruit a "girlfriend" that I can see afterwards. A couple of nibbles and a couple of dates, but I probably won't actually be taking any of them along, now that the trip is so soon. But it may lead to other mutually beneficial arrangments. But Mamba was not really a better source for leads this way than, say an ad on Craigslist.
In the end I have decided the cost of bringing a girl from the EE, or even from Canada (if you don't get a real airfare bargain) makes it pretty expensive sex. Instead, I am going to try working semi-pro local talent on site. Of course that way you don't get Slavic beauties, or any after-benefits. Plus every Caribbean country and resort area vary dramatically regarding the morality and price structure of the local girls, so it is hard to know how it will turn out when travelling to a new location.
GT, no pre-trip visa was necessary. They just give you one when you land. The following Wiki post is useful for seeing what the rules are
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_passport[/url]
Yes, I think you definately need to take the lead. I received 0 enquiries about my posting, and only had 2 responses out of the dozen+ messages/offers I sent out. I think the difference is between a maximum of sex/dollar vs a maximum of romance/dollar. For maximising sex/dollar, best to stay at home or go directly to the source.
[QUOTE=Fijiman]GT, no pre-trip visa was necessary. They just give you one when you land. The following Wiki post is useful for seeing what the rules are
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_passport[/url][/QUOTE]
Well, that site (and there is a similar one for Russia) is pretty useful!
I knew that EE girls could go to Dominican Republic and Cuba easily, but it turns out that applies to many other Caribbean countries also. Knowing that a visa is automatic might change my strategy in the future.
What exactly is the modus operandi here? Are we talking about flying over to the FSU to pick the girlie up and travel with her to the sun, or meeting her in the flesh for the first time at the sunny destination after sending her a (presumably non refundable!) air ticket?
[QUOTE=Ash1001]What exactly is the modus operandi here? Are we talking about flying over to the FSU to pick the girlie up and travel with her to the sun, or meeting her in the flesh for the first time at the sunny destination after sending her a (presumably non refundable!) air ticket?[/QUOTE]
Ash, the idea here was to import sight unseen.
I know that is a risky business but since I am not getting back to the motherland very often, it may be a risk worth taking. I should emphasize that I have not actually done this. I did not for my recent Jamaican jaunt partly because of the cost and partly the uncertainty. Remove the uncertainty about getting a visa for her - which I had not properly understood - and the math (and risk) becomes a little more straightforward.
I am now looking at doing this for a European trip but am running into other complications. The cost is less, but the attractiveness of the offer is less also. And the visa issues are greater. So over all still not as easy it sounds. Obviously you are much better off if you have an established relationship with the girl and have test driven her.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]Obviously you are much better off if you have an established relationship with the girl and have test driven her.[/QUOTE]I have gone that route on a few occassions and always been happy with the results.
Knowing a girl beforehand might take away some of the excitement or some of the plus factor of getting a new girl, but it also takes away most of the risk and as you mentioned before, will provide added benefit later... in most cases.
What has worked for me is simple:
1) pick a place I want to go anyway (usually cities for me)
2) pick a girl who will APPRECIATE it
3) pick a girl who provides good company besides just sex
4) agree that you cover flight and hotel and food, nothing else (at least I refuse to give them any shopping money)
5) don't book too long, only a week with a single girl
6) pick a girl that is hot enough to make everybody jealous (I enjoy this.. )
7) if you have special requests (I like photo sessions and language practice) agree beforehand... the sex will be automatically available anyway IME.
It's always been a good time, with limited additional costs if planned correctly.
Visa is an issue but can be handled.
I've been tempted to try the blind date vacation, but never pulled the string on it. Too afraid of getting a dud, but maybe I shouldn't be such a coward and should try it. One thing I've always wanted to do was invite 2 girls who are already friends of one another. They'll get a positive holiday vibe going and I'll get sex. When I am bored with their company, send them out for the day and have them come back for night fun. Could also be disasterous though... really rolling the dice on that one methinks.
I did have one negative experience with a girl I invited to stay with me in Moscow though... thankfully there was little extra expense there. She eventually put out when we met later on a seperate occassion and has become a delightful semi-regular, but I didnt get any during her initial 3-day visit. Was partially my fault though, I was in a bad mood and stopped even trying out of spite after the disasterous sexless opening night.
Thanks GT and Skank.
Actually, the main risk is not so much financial - if she doesn't show, you're down 1 plane ticket*, plus you'll probably be in a place full of other hotties - as mental: if you're stuck with a dud for a full week and are responsible for her, well, as Dr S says, that's a tricky one to get out of.
The only reason I ask is because I was thinking of a way of avoiding the freezing cold of St Petersburg! At this stage I haven't yet asked the dyev in question whether she actually wants to meet.. but I'm kind of hoping a winter sun offer might get her juices flowing :) It's worth a try at any rate.
*Hopefully not transatlantic. I understand your situation is different, GT
[QUOTE=Ash1001]Thanks GT and Skank.
Actually, the main risk is not so much financial - if she doesn't show, you're down 1 plane ticket*, plus you'll probably be in a place full of other hotties -
*Hopefully not transatlantic. I understand your situation is different, GT[/QUOTE]
No, the situations I am looking at are importing FSU girls into what is otherwise a sex prison (Geneva) or unknown/complex terrain. So if she doesn't show, or I don't get a firm deal made in time, then I am probably stuck spending my time alone. Of course this only applies on business trips - otherwise why not vacation somewhere where there is a local fall-back plan?
Guys,
I have already reported it here, but would like to repeat the message for the ones who have missed it.
The best club in town nowadays in Moscow, where you will be able to enter, with full of absolute stunning girls, without a single girl rated 5 or less, is the UP AND DOWN, located near Proletarskaya metro station.
The club is big, with amazing spectacle and gogo danseuses, and a majority of beautiful girls.
The rate of scoring with my friends is pretty high btw. Yesterday, a friend of mine in 5 minutes was able to convince a small brunette to go to toilets together... just crazy.
in case you do not score, hey don't worry! At the main bar located near the dance floor you will be able to spot 3 or 4 working girls. Never asked for the prices, so can't report.
But even if you don't score there, you will find yourselves sharing a drink with a top model or two, like if it would be a normal thing all of us is doing everyday...crazy, crazy, crazy.
If you want to meet Russian and Ukrainian girls on vacation, the best places to go are Hurghada and Sharm el-Shekh in Egypt, and Antalya/Belek on Turkey's southern coast. They're phenomenally cheap. Neva Travel, Coral Travel, and Natalie Tours are recognized package vacation operators in Moscow/SPB. When Russians go to the Caribbean, they usually hit Cuba and sometimes the Dominican Republic. They are much more likely to go to Thailand or Goa.
[QUOTE=Blaked]If you want to meet Russian and Ukrainian girls on vacation, the best places to go are Hurghada and Sharm el-Shekh in Egypt, and Antalya/Belek on Turkey's southern coast. They're phenomenally cheap. Neva Travel, Coral Travel, and Natalie Tours are recognized package vacation operators in Moscow/SPB. When Russians go to the Caribbean, they usually hit Cuba and sometimes the Dominican Republic. They are much more likely to go to Thailand or Goa.[/QUOTE]
That's a great point!
I don't know if the rest of you notice this, but it seems quite a few Russians end up in The Middle East for school, work or internships. Moscow has long done business with countries like Iran for an extended length of time so they have no Visa requirements. Like Turkey its one of few places both Western European/American/Canadian men can go and meet Russian women on neutral ground.
I am still kicking myself for not meeting with a Siberian cutie in Turkey after meeting with Mr. Disappointment, who knows where that could have gone.
Hi guys,
I have visited Ukraine for the first time 2 years ago for business and by that time, the first option I took to get some fun quickly as a newcomer, was to use the services of GIA. It did not leave unforgettable memories, not even the kind to make me report about them here, after all what was written in that topic.
I'm planning to go back to Ukraine in 3 weeks to visit again one of our suppliers we have been working with the last 2 years.
During the last 3 months, I have been in touch with a very nice looking 22 year old girl (I'm 35) who works as a commercial assistant in my partner's company in Dnepropetrovsk. We use very often msn to communicate in English. Day after day, discussions switched to a kind of seduction game and then we started openly talking about a date on my next visit.
So far so good, and the chance to get laid seems quite Okey. I told her I wanted her to come with me to Kiev for a week-end and she agreed.
But what bothers me now is that she confessed being in search for a serious relationship that would lead to marriage, and also complained that Ukrainian guys were only interested in one or two dates She's really hot and we have a real good mental connection. She's speaks English and German, is willing to learn French.
It appears obvious that she sees me as a potential « knight from Paris » (I'm French) even after telling her I had a one year old baby and an ex-wife. But my target is to have her as a regular girlfriend (among others), have some fun when I'm there, but not let the relationship develop further. That's why I request the help of you, Russia and Ukraine Master Jedi's of mongering (hehe that's for the sword techniques).
A special tribute to Doctor Skank, whose posts are a real delight to read.
My questions are the following:
1. Non lethal exit strategies with a Russian/Ukrainian freebie: is there any other option than just « fire and forget »? She's in the loop of my business there and I don't want to treat her like shit.
2. Not knowing how the girls in Ukraine manage birth control methods, I'm thinking of using Condoms with Spermicide to avoid any « bad » surprises later But I don't want to make it obvious to her in bed. Any advice on that issue based on previous experiences?
Thanks in Advance,
Bob
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]
Bob,
It is going to be cheaper to do P2P instead of this "freebie." Remember you are paying them to leave. Time to think with your head that's above your waist. IMHO you should leave this one alone, especially given the potential entanglement with your business partner.
T42
[QUOTE=Bob Malaga]Hi guys,
I have visited Ukraine for the first time 2 years ago for business and by that time, the first option I took to get some fun quickly as a newcomer, was to use the services of GIA. It did not leave unforgettable memories, not even the kind to make me report about them here, after all what was written in that topic.
I'm planning to go back to Ukraine in 3 weeks to visit again one of our suppliers we have been working with the last 2 years.
During the last 3 months, I have been in touch with a very nice looking 22 year old girl (I'm 35) who works as a commercial assistant in my partner's company in Dnepropetrovsk. We use very often msn to communicate in English. Day after day, discussions switched to a kind of seduction game and then we started openly talking about a date on my next visit.
So far so good, and the chance to get laid seems quite Okey. I told her I wanted her to come with me to Kiev for a week-end and she agreed.
But what bothers me now is that she confessed being in search for a serious relationship that would lead to marriage, and also complained that Ukrainian guys were only interested in one or two dates She's really hot and we have a real good mental connection. She's speaks English and German, is willing to learn French.
It appears obvious that she sees me as a potential « knight from Paris » (I'm French) even after telling her I had a one year old baby and an ex-wife. But my target is to have her as a regular girlfriend (among others), have some fun when I'm there, but not let the relationship develop further. That's why I request the help of you, Russia and Ukraine Master Jedi's of mongering (hehe that's for the sword techniques).
A special tribute to Doctor Skank, whose posts are a real delight to read.
My questions are the following:
1. Non lethal exit strategies with a Russian/Ukrainian freebie: is there any other option than just « fire and forget »? She's in the loop of my business there and I don't want to treat her like shit.
2. Not knowing how the girls in Ukraine manage birth control methods, I'm thinking of using Condoms with Spermicide to avoid any « bad » surprises later But I don't want to make it obvious to her in bed. Any advice on that issue based on previous experiences?
Thanks in Advance,
Bob
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size][/QUOTE]
Your problem is that you're worried. Worrying is the wrong strategy.
Why worry? Just have fun with her, treat her well. Worrying about it takes all the fun out of it. The only thing you should worry about, is fucking her so hard that you nearly kill her. You need to fuck her like the world will end tomorrow, fuck her until she is screaming, then fuck her again even harder. That will get her mind off anything serious.
She knows you're not staying. She knows you're only coming for business. She's not an idiot. You tell her you'll be coming back next month to see her again, and she'll be happy about that. And then later, you tell her that you can't come back because your company needs you to go to, well, you make up some place.
She's not gonna break it off, just because of that. And whenever you go back, if she still likes you, you see her again.
This time, when you first go to fuck her, she's not gonna try to get all serious with you in just a few days, despite what she wrote. Don't even worry about that. You're just starting the relationship, let it run its course, for where ever it will go in the short time of your business trip. If you don't bring up anything serious, except for how much you like her, then if she brings it up, you can just tell her that you want to spend MORE time with her before you make any serious decisions. That way, she'll know you don't only want a 2 day affair.
You won't get any surprises if you use a condom.
Blaked,
speaking about sharm and hurgada, which are the months when usually russians and ukranians go there ?
I guess maybe in winter times to escape the cold weather out there, but maybe they go even in summer ? Or spring and autumn when the prices are cheaper ?
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Your problem is that you're worried. Worrying is the wrong strategy.[/QUOTE] Bob Malaga - This is one of those rare occasions where I totally agree with Bez ;) . I believe you may be over thinking this. Have fun, treat her right, and don't lie to her beyond what's REASONABLE. This is not a working girl so chances are that she's not exactly "street tough".
Having said that, take heed in the old saying about not getting your "meat" where you get your "bread". I have never been a big follower of that rule myself, but I will <grudgingly> admit that there is a certain amount of merit. But since you have one degree of separation, hell man, go for it. But be cautious in your communication with her as it may have unintended consequences. Let me explain why I say this. Just yesterday (it was my birthday) I started receiving a bunch of emails saying that people had written on my Facebook wall wishing me a Happy Birthday. I have never really embraced the whole Facebook thing but played along and have even connected to some old school friends that I have not communicated with for over 30 years. All harmless fun.
LAST night, however, I got an email from Facebook with a Friend Request. But this was a girlfriend from Moscow who wanted to become a Facebook friend. Under normal circumstances, I would have approved and said “yeah, sure no problem” and let her become a Facebook friend except this time coming on the heels of having so many people I have known for many, many years both personally AND professionally posting all these happy greetings on my Facebook Wall the thought of making a girlfriend / mistress / Lubovitsa from Moscow a Facebook Friend made my blood run cold. I realized that it was possible for her to post a bunch of shit on my wall that could potentially be very, very awkward and potentially VERY difficult to explain to certain people. What the hell was I to do? Approve her? Deny her? Ignore her? Luckily I dug deep into the privacy controls of Facebook and it appears that even if I allow my little Moscvitchka to become my Facebook Friend, that I can control what she can see and certainly stop her from posting on my wall in the event that she discovers the 5 other Moscow girls I am banging and decides to “slag” me in public.
Here’s my point – in this age of cyber communication and instant information, those of us who practice this hobby need to be ever more mindful of the potential risks out there for collateral damage to our reputations, our livelihoods, and our loved ones. Before going too far down the road with who sounds to be a lovely Ukrainian devushka (sorry, diwchinka), keep in mind the collateral damage that a gilted lover might cause in your professional circles should the magic fade under less than favorable circumstances.
PS - I am thinking VERY seriously of deleting my Facebook account entirely.
[QUOTE=Jake993]PS - I am thinking VERY seriously of deleting my Facebook account entirely.[/QUOTE]Me too. And vkontakte. And odnoklassniki.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Just yesterday (it was my birthday)[/QUOTE]поздравляю вас, с днем рождения! (Happy Birthday)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]поздравляю вас, с днем рождения! (Happy Birthday)[/QUOTE] Большое спасибо
[QUOTE=Jake993]
This is one rare occasion where I totally agree with Bez ;) .
I am thinking VERY seriously of deleting my Face entirely.
[/QUOTE]
Ebi tvoyu boga dushu mat!
Ne pizdi, paskuda yobaniy.
Ok, well you're only allowed to agree with me because its your birthday, now poshol na huy.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Me too. And vkontakte. And odnoklassniki.[/QUOTE]
I simply refused to join any from the start (at least under my real identity). Sure, I get plenty of grief from my friends for eschewing the social networking movement and have even been accused of being a luddite. But then again, they always have my email address, my skype/icq/gtalk ids, and mobile number if they want to get in touch with me.
Still, it makes me laugh when I see a married Russian business colleague (using his real name) who has 50 some-odd friends on odnoklassniki, and they're all slutty looking single girls aged from 18 to 29. Proof that there's still a wide gap between what's acceptable in Russia and what's acceptable in the US.
[url]http://rt.com/Best_Videos/2010-02-05/erotic-contest-russian-night.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Bob Malaga]Hi guys,
I have visited Ukraine for the first time 2 years ago for business and by that time, the first option I took to get some fun quickly as a newcomer, was to use the services of GIA. It did not leave unforgettable memories, not even the kind to make me report about them here, after all what was written in that topic.
I'm planning to go back to Ukraine in 3 weeks to visit again one of our suppliers we have been working with the last 2 years.
During the last 3 months, I have been in touch with a very nice looking 22 year old girl (I'm 35) who works as a commercial assistant in my partner's company in Dnepropetrovsk. We use very often msn to communicate in English. Day after day, discussions switched to a kind of seduction game and then we started openly talking about a date on my next visit.
So far so good, and the chance to get laid seems quite Okey. I told her I wanted her to come with me to Kiev for a week-end and she agreed.
But what bothers me now is that she confessed being in search for a serious relationship that would lead to marriage, and also complained that Ukrainian guys were only interested in one or two dates She's really hot and we have a real good mental connection. She's speaks English and German, is willing to learn French.
It appears obvious that she sees me as a potential « knight from Paris » (I'm French) even after telling her I had a one year old baby and an ex-wife. But my target is to have her as a regular girlfriend (among others), have some fun when I'm there, but not let the relationship develop further. That's why I request the help of you, Russia and Ukraine Master Jedi's of mongering (hehe that's for the sword techniques).
A special tribute to Doctor Skank, whose posts are a real delight to read.
My questions are the following:
1. Non lethal exit strategies with a Russian/Ukrainian freebie: is there any other option than just « fire and forget »? She's in the loop of my business there and I don't want to treat her like shit.
2. Not knowing how the girls in Ukraine manage birth control methods, I'm thinking of using Condoms with Spermicide to avoid any « bad » surprises later But I don't want to make it obvious to her in bed. Any advice on that issue based on previous experiences?
Thanks in Advance,
Bob
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size][/QUOTE]There are tons of other girls why this particular one!
For me your are getting into a bad situation for nothing.
Always remember:
1 - if you have to pay, it is not to fuck, it is to leave
2 - pay upfront , the later you pay the more you pay
3 - pays in real money (USD, EUR, Roubles, ...) it is much cheaper that anything else (time, been hasselded, trouble with your wife/company)
And in your particular situation, you both seem to expect so much that at least one of you will be desapointed.
So run away ang go find plenty of other FSU girls (I love them)
Bez Bezarra,
This particular girl makes me worried. T42 and Jake993 have perfectly detailed the reasons: she's too closely linked to my professional circle.
I could not focus 100 % on the fun and will always be concerned about the right way to prevent her from turning into a "dirty bomb" someday. I'm probably worryng too much, but hey, I'm not as experienced as you guys!
I'm torn between the lure of fucking her brains out again and again (your plan is exactly what I had in mind.) and the potential collateral damage the inevitable end of that fling may have on the solid reputation of a reliable partner I built myself there.
Jake993 – Happy birthday!
The reminder of the Old saying and the Facebook issue have definitely convinced me to skip that one. I have just created a "stealth" profile on mamba to try my luck with the local talent. Language is a problem (I speak only French, English, some Italian). But After all, Ukraine is a big country.
B. M.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Still, it makes me laugh when I see a married Russian business colleague (using his real name) who has 50 some-odd friends on odnoklassniki, and they're all slutty looking single girls aged from 18 to 29. Proof that there's still a wide gap between what's acceptable in Russia and what's acceptable in the US.[/QUOTE] Yeah that's it in a nutshell. Like I said, when the Moskvitchka asked to become a Facebook Friend, my blood ran cold. I was like watching a Quentin Tarantino film before my eyes and it ended with me in divorce court while being disgraced before my business community full of hypocritical bible belt red neck posers.....but I disgress.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Yeah that's it in a nutshell. Like I said, when the Moskvitchka asked to become a Facebook Friend, my blood ran cold. I was like watching a Quentin Tarantino film before my eyes and it ended with me in divorce court while being disgraced before my business community full of hypocritical bible belt red neck posers.....but I disgress.[/QUOTE]I have had several "girlfriends" ask me to join facebook for keeping contact! My blood froze immediately! I will never, ever join facebook or any other of the social websites. It will be the start of the road to social disaster.
[QUOTE=Bob Malaga]My questions are the following:
1. Non lethal exit strategies with a Russian/Ukrainian freebie: is there any other option than just « fire and forget »? She's in the loop of my business there and I don't want to treat her like shit.
2. Not knowing how the girls in Ukraine manage birth control methods, I'm thinking of using Condoms with Spermicide to avoid any « bad » surprises later But I don't want to make it obvious to her in bed. Any advice on that issue based on previous experiences?
Thanks in Advance,
Bob[/QUOTE]1) It's a risky endeavour to get involved with someone related to your business, but it happens all the time. Ending relationships is pretty easy actually. That happens all the time too. You might want to ask yourself however if it isn't even more fun having a girl have the hots for you than having a girl that did have the hots for you that you screwed nagging you about another meeting, holidays in Paris or wherever etc.
My escapades with business-related devs all turned out ok (knock on wood) but I could have been just as happy without banging them. There are SO many other fish in the sea.
2) devs don't think much about birth control, so if you are concerned, use a condom.
What FSU means?
Thanks!
[QUOTE=Clement Mic]What FSU means?[/QUOTE]Former Soviet Union
Anyone done any decent analysis of freebie dyev names? Which ones are the most frequent. Which one have the highest propensity to be smokin hot?
I just did some math and am surprised at how few Natalia/Natashas are on my list!. Less than 3%. For such a stereotypical Russian name, you would think it would pop up more. Speaking of stereotypical dyev names ... there is only one "Svetlana" on file. A paltry one. Is that a statistical anomaly or are Svetlanas just not worth poking?
Olyas, Tanyas and Lenas all amounted to more than 10% of the total each ... and were all a mix of 'smokin hot', 'not bad' and 'average'
And Alina's ... theres a surprise, since its a non-russian name, had 3 out of 4 hot ones, and one not bad one.
[QUOTE=Roger Mellie]And Alina's ... theres a surprise, since its a non-russian name[/QUOTE]Alina (dim. of Galina) is actually a Russian name, although it does have a French counterpart.
And Света(s) are definitely worth poking... ;)
[QUOTE=Roger Mellie]Olyas, Tanyas and Lenas all amounted to more than 10% of the total each ... and were all a mix of 'smokin hot', 'not bad' and 'average'
And Alina's ... theres a surprise, since its a non-russian name, had 3 out of 4 hot ones, and one not bad one.[/QUOTE]
Does Olya include Olga?
And how about Milas? I dated three of them on my last trip!
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Alina (dim. of Galina) is actually a Russian name, although it does have a French counterpart.[/QUOTE]
It's also one of the most stereotypical Romanian name, if not the most.
[QUOTE=Prosal]It's also one of the most stereotypical Romanian name, if not the most.[/QUOTE]
The same as Alena in cz and sk...
Hi dear mongers,
I am curently writing to a lady in Russia that I met through Mamba. I am afraid she is scaming me since she is writting kinda standard mails.
If I recall right there is a webpage where one can submit a picture and this webpage will determin if the picture has been used in other webpages and is scam or not. Can anyone send me this link?
I am not publishing her picture here in case she is not a scammer.
Thank you for your help
Easyease
[QUOTE=Easyease]Hi dear mongers,
I am curently writing to a lady in Russia that I met through Mamba. I am afraid she is scaming me since she is writting kinda standard mails.
If I recall right there is a webpage where one can submit a picture and this webpage will determin if the picture has been used in other webpages and is scam or not. Can anyone send me this link?
I am not publishing her picture here in case she is not a scammer.
Thank you for your help
Easyease[/QUOTE]http://www.tineye.com/
Thanks for the link, it might also help me with my girl.
I recently has a not encou *** with super not looking russian girl from Piter.What can I say?Russian girls are much more classy than ukr girls and better in every though more expensive.Ukrainian girls are more provincial russian are city girls and like class.
My 2 euro... I prefer much more russians, a bit less beautiful maybe, but less spoiled than ukranians, but I am curious to know what the others think about it.
[QUOTE=Lukasek]My 2 euro... I prefer much more russians, a bit less beautiful maybe, but less spoiled than ukranians, but I am curious to know what the others think about it.[/QUOTE]
Russians are undoubtedly more emotional and genuinely passionate than ukrainian women.
[QUOTE=Prosal]Russians are undoubtedly more emotional and genuinely passionate than ukrainian women.[/QUOTE]
There are common traits held by girls depending upon:
a) upbringing (city vs province)
b) money (wealthy vs poor)
c) education (high vs rudimentary)
and last...
d) country of origin
Focusing in on the last one and ignoring the rest is a fruitless pursuit.
[QUOTE=Prosal]Russians are undoubtedly more emotional and genuinely passionate than ukrainian women.[/QUOTE]
Prosal,
I agree, but I am curious, any historical reasons for this difference ?
[QUOTE=Lukasek]Prosal,I agree, but I am curious, any historical reasons for this difference ?[/QUOTE]
Luka, I fucking don't know, but I wouldn't mind spending the next ten years studying those differences (on site, and on a VERY large sample). :)
[QUOTE=Lukasek]My 2 euro... I prefer much more russians, a bit less beautiful maybe, but less spoiled than ukranians, but I am curious to know what the others think about it.[/QUOTE]
Totally agree!! wasn't able to find a nice (on all parts) girlfriend in Kiev in 1 month...."spoiled" is THE proper word for Ukrainians.
I am afraid to simply see in Ukraine what we start to see in Moscow and what we will have in russia in 10 years...I really hope the russians will keep the actual visa rules and high prices in moscow for hostel and food :-)
[QUOTE=Passepartout]Totally agree!! wasn't able to find a nice (on all parts) girlfriend in Kiev in 1 month...."spoiled" is THE proper word for Ukrainians. [/QUOTE]
A girl a bit "spoiled" isn't necessarily that bad. As long as you are aware of her nature and you manipulate her more cunningly than she (tries to) manipulate you.
When you are on a three or four weeks sex-vacations in a single place, and if your goal is to fuck as many hot freebies as possible, it's IMO easier to deal with "spoiled girls" than with genuinely passionate and emotional girls. That is what makes me seriously hesitating about a - scheduled - long stay in Moscow. My two current GFs there (who both come regularly here in Paris) are WAY too involved in the relationship for that I could really freely move when I will be on site. And honestly, manipulating and cheating such girls is not fair. Spoiled girls can be manipulated with less "guilty conscience".
I wonder if in that respect (vacations dedicated to a max of no strings attached hot flings with freebie sluts), Ukraine isn't better than Russia ?!?
It would be really interesting to have specialists opinion on this point.
What about Belarussian girls by the way ? ...they are obviously not as "wild" as their Russian counterparts, but what about their other characteristics?
[QUOTE=Prosal]Russians are undoubtedly more emotional and genuinely passionate than ukrainian women.[/QUOTE]x100.
No comparison.
I don't see how a "spoiled girl" can be categorised as a "freebie" on a short holiday. Chances is after at least two fully serviced nights out and one present you are spending the same than P2P but with considerable more hassle and time (the most precious commodity).
And maintaining a spoiled girl for a long term fuck buddy relationship I think it is called in Russia "sponsorship"
Don't get my wrong, I am a freebie lover for the genuine excitement of the chasing and conquering but there is nothing such as a free lunch nowadays I am afraid.
By the way, Kiev is worst than Moscow. Too many tourists, too many strip clubs, too many marriage agencies, too many golddiggers. I am keen in exploring Minsk.
Vigilantexx
[QUOTE=Prosal]A girl a bit "spoiled" isn't necessarily that bad. As long as you are aware of her nature and you manipulate her more cunningly than she (tries to) manipulate you.
When you are on a three or four weeks sex-vacations in a single place, and if your goal is to fuck as many hot freebies as possible, it's IMO easier to deal with "spoiled girls" than with genuinely passionate and emotional girls. That is what makes me seriously hesitating about a - scheduled - long stay in Moscow. My two current GFs there (who both come regularly here in Paris) are WAY too involved in the relationship for that I could really freely move when I will be on site. And honestly, manipulating and cheating such girls is not fair.
I wonder if in that respect (vacations dedicated to a max of no strings attached hot flings with freebie sluts), Ukraine isn't better than Russia ?!?
It would be really interesting to have specialists opinion on this point.
What about Belarussian girls by the way ? ...they are obviously not as "wild" as their Russian counterparts, but what about their other characteristics?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Prosal]...
What about Belarussian girls by the way ? ...they are obviously not as "wild" as their Russian counterparts, but what about their other characteristics?[/QUOTE]
Interesting point !
I think Belarussian girls are even more emotional and genuily passionate than russians due to the low number of mongers and zero tourists going there. ( if girl asks why are you in Moscow or Piter, you can answer business or tourism. In the russian provincies answer for business, no tourism there. But wtf you answer if she asks why are you in ..... Gomel :D )
I am pretty sure they are less spoiled, they travel for example much less than russians. ( I am thinking right now how many russians go to Egypt in comparison of Belarussians going there for example... ).
They are more poor, more stuck in their country, almost a prison under their "beloved" Lukashenko and more willing to escape forever with the trick of marriage.
And for one girl travel to west europe, watching and thinking how native women in west europe behave, it means she will go back home and spoil 10 friends of her telling how in west europe usually women and not men lead.
I never been to Minsk, I am just guessing, but I read a lot of Belarussia thread in the years and I chatted with some and met 2 in FKK.
They are much more into relationship than into the simple one night of fun, so it takes time to get one of them naked, so probably this is the reason why only very few of us went to Belarussia together the fact that prostitution there is illegal, so mongering scene is almost zero in comparison to Russia and UA.
Obviously imho, but I have the feeling I am not so far from the truth....
Oooh, Russian, Bielorussians, Ukrainians,... Pro and versus, the same old story, the difference is how the man plays the tricky game, we are sure, capital cities are spoilt, better in provinces but they are not for beginners, Moscow is simply too much expensive for hunting, serious relationships? If they exist, they need time, time, time (and time is money).
Just for your fun, a similar story I am hearing here in North Italy, before a lot of Italians went to Romania (and they have allowed Romanian criminals to come to Italy) and now the new trend is to go to Talinn because somebody says "a retired man can hire a "personal blowjober" with 200 euros/month". Does it mean we have to go to Estonia and not to Bielorussia?
Tallinn is totally spoilt, originally by Finns going for cheaper alcohol and after they joined EU by the hordes of Brits with stag-dos plus Italians, Spanish etc...
Sweet memories, in 98 Disco Hollywood was the closest thing I even saw to the Playboy Mansion, with an impossibly high ratio female:male and unreal beautiful creatures.
Baltic beauty is the perfect combination of of Slavic and Scandinavian features. Personality wise they are pretty much Scandinavian although not of course almost half of the population, who has Russian roots and feel themselves as Russians.
200€ can be spent in a single night out a Cafe Amigo, personal blowers can not live on that.
Vigilante
[QUOTE=Acolonizer]Oooh, Russian, Bielorussians, Ukrainians,... Pro and versus, the same old story, the difference is how the man plays the tricky game, we are sure, capital cities are spoilt, better in provinces but they are not for beginners, Moscow is simply too much expensive for hunting, serious relationships? If they exist, they need time, time, time (and time is money).
Just for your fun, a similar story I am hearing here in North Italy, before a lot of Italians went to Romania (and they have allowed Romanian criminals to come to Italy) and now the new trend is to go to Talinn because somebody says "a retired man can hire a "personal blowjober" with 200 euros/month". Does it mean we have to go to Estonia and not to Bielorussia?[/QUOTE]
It was just a funny tale. Estonia should be less poor than Ukraine because it joined EU and therefore it is no possible 200 euros to fuck a Baltic beauty for a whole month.
Anyway I had considered baltic females and their phenotype is very interesting but the weather is too cold for me. I think the best country for me is Ukraine!
Towns and females spoilt? By now, all Eastern countries are pretty emancipated. All Westerners should change their behaviour otherwise we shall find the same feminism power both in West and in East in few years, with NO matter about economical crisis.
[QUOTE=Vigilantemoscow]Tallinn is totally spoilt, originally by Finns going for cheaper alcohol and after they joined EU by the hordes of Brits with stag-dos plus Italians, Spanish etc.
Sweet memories, in 98 Disco Hollywood was the closest thing I even saw to the Playboy Mansion, with an impossibly high ratio female:male and unreal beautiful creatures.
Baltic beauty is the perfect combination of of Slavic and Scandinavian features. Personality wise they are pretty much Scandinavian although not of course almost half of the population, who has Russian roots and feel themselves as Russians.
200€ can be spent in a single night out a Cafe Amigo, personal blowers can not live on that.
Vigilante[/QUOTE]
This isn't really about dating Russian women, rather an observation. I spend most morning writing in a small cafe here in my neighborhood in Berlin. Every week on Tuesday or Wednesday there is a group of Russian MILFs who gather (between 6-8 of them) and spend half an hour to an hour drinking Lattes and talking. As the title of the post suggests their conversation resembles nothing less than a Wall of Sound. Rarely have I heard such volume and with all the women talking at the same time, nobody appearing to listen to anyone else. I know all (or many)women share some of this trait, but these Russian MILFs seem to be on a level all their own. The only thing that seems to stop them is their cell phones...
Does anyone have any comments on this? On Russian women and their ability to drown a room in sound when they get together?
[QUOTE=Angus Magee]Does anyone have any comments on this? On Russian women and their ability to drown a room in sound when they get together?[/QUOTE]
Yes Angus, women together do make more sound than on their own.
Cheers Nickc
Don't.
Only women of fortune
FF
[QUOTE=Angus Magee]Does anyone have any comments on this? On Russian women and their ability to drown a room in sound when they get together?[/QUOTE]Women are always talking, no question about that. But, you're right, Russian woman have elevated the usual female chatter to a high art: they can spend hours talking about absolutely nothing.
As far as the volume is concerned, it's not usually a characteristic of Russian female conversation, under normal circumstances. However, I've had a chance to observe Russians outside of Russia and there is a type of Russian who believes that they are somehow superior, once they get outside of Russia and they want the whole world to know it. For some reason there are a lot of Russians (tourists) in Wien, not sure why, but I have heard Russian spoken just about everywhere when I have been there. I was having breakfast in my hotel one morning and happened to be seated next to a couple of very pretentious bogati zhenshini (rich women). They were making quite a fuss over the buffet and whether or not they would have the waffles or the arboos (watermelon) and commiserating over the quality of the bulochni (pastries). That was one time I wish I could have turned off my understanding of Russian, just for an hour.
I imagine the kaffe klatch in your cafe is trying to achieve the same goal. If they are living in Berlin, then they are probably well-married and well-to-do and they want the whole world to know it. The next time they get out of hand, you might try admonishing them with the following:
Девушки! разговаривать тихо пожалуйста
[i]DYEV-ooshki! raz-ga-VAR-i-vat TI-kho pa-ZHAL-oos-ta[/i]
Girls, talk quietly please.
That should shut them up, for a few minutes anyway.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]The next time they get out of hand, you might try admonishing them with the following:
Девушки! разговаривать тихо пожалуйста
[i]DYEV-ooshki! raz-ga-VAR-i-vat TI-kho pa-ZHAL-oos-ta[/i]
Girls, talk quietly please.
That should shut them up, for a few minutes anyway.[/QUOTE]
Simpler to say "TAK GROAM KA!" ([you're] so loud!) Russians appreciate directness.
And I'm with Strav - Russian women are not inherently louder than women of other nationalities. In fact, I'd say American women typically speak much louder than most Russians I hear.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Russians appreciate directness[/QUOTE]Very true. Even more to the point... молчи! mol-CHEE (shut-up). But then, that would probably be rude.
Angus,
Can't help but wonder, are any of these women "do-able"? I mean, here you have these Russian MILF's, with clearly way too much time on their hands. Maybe there is a possibility for some love in the afternoon?
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Angus,
Can't help but wonder, are any of these women "do-able"? I mean, here you have these Russian MILF's, with clearly way too much time on their hands. Maybe there is a possibility for some love in the afternoon?[/QUOTE]
I was actually wondering this myself. Usually I am not that attracted to MILFs. But there was one in the crowd this past Monday who appealed to me-very tall with streaked blond hair wearing a tight pair of white jeans. And I did manage to catch her eye as she was leaving and got back a glance-and then another as she walked by on the sidewalk on the way to her large SUV. I can only hope that I see her there again soon, maybe without her entourage of GFs, as in those situations it is difficult (but not impossible) to make contact. At least for me.
Maybe you more experienced Russian MILF freebie hunters can suggest a separation technique? Should anything come of it you gents would be the first to know I promise. And pics if possible...
On another matter-one of the owners of this cafe has what I think is a Russian wife. Or at least she comes, I think from one of the FSU states and must have some tartar blood in her. She is very tall, wild looking and with piercing eyes. But man, these two can fight, very publicly, about almost anything. Often though I think it is about hubbies' wandering eye. The other day they had a smack down fight complete with slapping (her to him) and hair pulling (him to her) around the sidewalk. You got to wonder what kind of sex these two get up to?
AM
[QUOTE=Angus Magee]she comes, I think from one of the FSU states and must have some tartar blood in her. She is very tall, wild looking and with piercing eyes.[/QUOTE]Well, clearly, you are after the wrong woman! ;)
Pizdyets is right, it's best to be direct with Russian women. If you are too coy or wishy-washy, they might think you are "blue" (gay).
I'm not sure what the language situation is; do they speak German? are you speaking Russian? does everyone speak English? But if you have a chance to meet your favorite MILF again, simply say:
[i]pree-vyet[/i], hello
and ask her for her name:
[i]kahk vass zah-VOOT, DYEV-ush-ka?[/i] What's your name girl?
She may look down her nose at you and say:
[i]Nee skah-zhoo[/i], I'm not saying
or she could flash you a smile and tell you her name. At that point you've got your foot in the door and I'm sure you can take it from there.
It will probably by impossible to break up the kaffe klatch, so... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. If you have an "in" with the cafe owner, you might want to tell him that you will pick up the check for their table the next time you're there. Just make sure that your favorite MILF is present that day: the gesture will not be lost on her. It will cost you something, but how expensive can it be for a half dozen cappuccinos? It's better than paying for a couple ounces of Beluga.
There will, of course, me much clucking and razgavarivari-ing by the kvochki (hens) once they realize they have an admirer, and you might use that opportunity to introduce yourself, keeping an eye, of course, on your favorite MILF. If you're lucky, they might invite you to join them. One could do worse than to while away a Monday afternoon with a table of Russian MILFs (I wish). If everything goes well, someone might even come over to your table and tell you all to shut-up. ;)
Of course, if you have no common language with them, then this will be very difficult, if not impossible.
[QUOTE=Lukasek] ( if girl asks why are you in Moscow or Piter, you can answer business or tourism. In the russian provincies answer for business, no tourism there. But wtf you answer if she asks why are you in ..... Gomel :D )[/QUOTE]You are doing radiological testing for a long term study on the effects of Chernobyl.
And you would like to sample her bodily fluids...
[i]Beauty is only skin deep. But ugly goes clean to the bone.
- Dorthy Parker[/i]
Thursday - 00:30 - Real McCoy. Crowd was simply pathetic: dorky expats, dorkier locals, fatties, uglies and grandmas. I only spotted a single girl worth pursuing, and no surprise... every other guy in the place noticed her as well. At the time, I wasn't sure if lack of competition was artificially enhancing her beauty, but she really [i]did[/i] look stunning - 177cm (as I would later find out), big brown doe eyes, high cheekbones, a body like a swan's neck, and a tight black dress which left little to the imagination. There was virtually a queue of guys waiting to talk to her. Nearby was evidently her girlfriend - an equally tall mid-20s girl in business attire who appeared to have a nice, thin body. But with a face... well, let's just say it wasn't anything to write home about. With a 3:2 guy:girl ratio and lots of big, drunk dudes in the mood to start something, I figured it wasn't worth my time talking to this girl and headed off to that old standby - Che.
As expected on a Thursday night, Che was fucking PACKED, albeit with lots of dudes. Girls, however, were much better looking than in RM, with well over a dozen (by my estimation) worth getting to know better. Also, the girls were very friendly. I had a few (including a couple cuties) come up to me and start chatting themselves. After a mojito or two, I glanced towards the entrance and saw the two girls from RM appear. They made a beeline for the bar and a moment later they were doing tequila shots with the barman. Nice - my type of girls! I was chatting up some cutie from the lower Volga river valley when her male friend (BF?) abruptly showed up. She apologized but said that she needed to leave right then. Oh well. As the saying goes, there are other fish in the sea. I turned my sights on the Supermodel and her Plain Jane friend.
Jane was dancing up a storm and appeared to be having an altogether great time. Supermodel, on the other hand, was in full defensive position, shooting down one guy after the next. I mulled over my options. After a liter of Long Islands at RM and even more mojitos at Che, I figured I was too wasted to be witty. The faux-arrogant, cocky-funny thing is usually deadly with Russian girls, but I just wasn't up for it mentally. So I decided to go for the classic Misdirection Approach. I sidled up to Jane, who was dancing about an arm's reach from SM and asked:
"So I guess Real McCoy is dead by now, huh?"
"What?" she replied.
"Real McCoy... is it dead now?"
She looked even more confused. Now, I know my Russian isn't the best, but usually people can understand me perfectly. No sweat, I thought, the ice had already been broken.
"You want a drink?"
"Sure!"
We stepped over to SM, who was sitting at the bar and I ordered 3 shots of tequila. SM intro'd herself and we exchanged pleasantries. I recall licking both their hands before they applied the salt and with no objections. I guess that's my privilege if I'm "calling the shots". :) SM told me that her friend (Jane) is simply the best girl ever, blah blah blah, and that I should know how lucky I am to meet her. I was thinking I'd feel even luckier if I were taking off SM's dress right now. But that was going to have to wait. That said, I'd gotten further than any other guy in RM or Che, and was having a nice, friendly conversation with the two girls.
A little later, Jane and I were dancing up a storm, with my teaching her basic salsa and jive moves. No question, Jane was digging me big time, and I have to admit that she was growing on me too with her cheerful (if not so beautiful) face and bubbly anything-goes attitude. Not sure who kissed whom first, but before long we were swapping spit as if our lives depended on it.
Around 5am, Jane announced that she and SM had had enough of Che and were headed to Etazh for coffee and kalyan (hookah). I told her that I needed to work the next (actually current) day, and politely declined. Thanking her for a nice evening, I gave her one last kiss before saying goodbye. Given that I had not yet asked for her phone number, Jane looked crestfallen as she walked towards the coat check. I scanned the club. A couple decent girls left, but in any case I was too tired to move on them. So I decided to leave as well and found SM and Jane collecting their coats.
"Hey there, I reconsidered. Mind if I join you two at Etazh?"
"NOT AT ALL!" Jane responded.
As we're nearly at the summer solstice, the streets were already flooded with bright sunshine. How depressing. Somehow I like clubbing in winter much more than in summer. Leaving a club at 6am when it's pitch black outside is so much more... civilized. At least it feels less depraved. And to make things worse, the harsh sunlight was not doing Jane any favors. Much of her base and concealer had been swept away by sweat, or more likely by my own face, leaving noticeable blotches and blemishes. SM, on the other hand, looked positively radiant, as if she had just emerged from a massage in her ocean-side cabana in Bali.
We arrived at Etazh drunk off our asses. The girls were visibly weaving as I followed them to the entrance. The doormen noticed this as well, and inquired, "How are you feeling, girls?"
"We're fine."
"You're sure you haven't had too much to drink?"
"No, we're fine. Really."
"Well, okay. Go ahead."
I swear if SM hadn't been with us, that we wouldn't have gotten in. It certainly wouldn't have been the first time that a drunk friend got me faced at Etazh. Clearly they have little tolerance for people puking in their toilets. As you would expect on a Friday morning at 6am, the trendy 24/7 cafe at Pushkin Square was virtually empty. Two other tables had similar post-party groups, but it was mostly just the cleaning crew in attendance. Jane sat next to me in the booth, hand in hand, with SM across from us. I couldn't help but stare - admiring each aspect of her vibrant visage. Our conversation was nice, but nothing particularly memorable. Work, travel, language, relationships and so on. Towards the end, I had my hand between Jane's legs and was slowly rubbing her pubic mound through her silk skirt. She made no motions of protest, and kept her knees a good 20cm apart, but on the other hand she didn't acknowledge I was doing anything there at all. I suspect that she didn't want SM to know what I was doing, lest she be labeled as easy. Truth be told, Jane is a very nice, intelligent, interesting and professional girl. And she's a great kisser. I'm just not that attracted to her physically. SM, by contrast, didn't seem that smart or interesting, but she's fucking hot. And judging from the conversation we shared, she'd probably go out on a date with me if Jane weren't in the picture. On that note, Jane made a very concerted effort to keep me from spending even a second alone with SM, lest I ask her for her number. Like I said... smart girl.
It was approaching 8am and the traffic on Tverskaya was reaching its rush-hour peak. I probably could have coerced Jane to come home with me without too much effort, but all I wanted to do was sleep. We each caught separate taxis and headed to our respective flats. Which leads me to my questions. What should I do? Am I doomed to always chase the hottest girls, irrespective of their intellectual and emotional capabilities? Am I really that shallow? Might dating a less attractive girl actually pay off with higher dividends? I mean, they should have lower expectations, and thus be lower maintenance, right? Or should I just do whatever I can to get SM's digits and see how fast I can get between those long long legs?
Am I doomed to always chase the hottest girls, irrespective of their intellectual and emotional capabilities?
Yes.
Am I really that shallow?
Yes.
Might dating a less attractive girl actually pay off with higher dividends?
Yes.
I mean, they should have lower expectations, and thus be lower maintenance, right?
Yes.
Or should I just do whatever I can to get SM's digits and see how fast I can get between those long long legs?
YES.
Welcome to the brotherhood of Man.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Am I doomed to always chase the hottest girls, irrespective of their intellectual and emotional capabilities? Am I really that shallow? Might dating a less attractive girl actually pay off with higher dividends?[/QUOTE]P.
Deep stuff. That pretty much sums it all up right there: every man's constant dilemma. It's a little like a Zen koan, not sure there is an answer to that one.
I've explored the territory between those long, long legs once or twice in my life and it's always seemed to me to be a little like Chinese food: tasty, but an hour later, I'm hungry again.
I do have to congratulate you, however, on meeting the dawn with the hottest babe in Che (on that night anyway). I suppose that is an accomplishment in and of itself. :)
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Am I doomed to always chase the hottest girls, irrespective of their intellectual and emotional capabilities?[/QUOTE]
I am not sure if "doomed" is how I would put it. If you can somehow find the sweet space perspective of the game not being about the goal but about the playing then either way you are golden.
But that is not always so easy. One thing I have learned, but often do forget, is that sexual satisfaction is oxymoronic. That is there has not been and never will be any sexual satisfaction except for the briefest of moments. They are the ones to savor and then let go of. Sex is all about dissatisfaction, always wanting, never getting what we want. It is a built in part of the sexual urge to ensure the species survival. That is all.
Thanks for the input gents. So fat no further sightings but I will keep you all in formed if anything happens. Good thing I am back at work if I am to be picking up the cappuccino tab for a table of coffe slurping MILFs.
AM
[QUOTE=Angus Magee] Sex is all about dissatisfaction, always wanting, never getting what we want.[/QUOTE]
+1. That is the all point of mongering. Always wanting more. In that respect, we are all here sexual deviants in some way.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets] What should I do? Am I doomed to always chase the hottest girls, irrespective of their intellectual and emotional capabilities? Am I really that shallow? Might dating a less attractive girl actually pay off with higher dividends? I mean, they should have lower expectations, and thus be lower maintenance, right? Or should I just do whatever I can to get SM's digits and see how fast I can get between those long long legs?[/QUOTE]
Super entertaining narrative Pzdyets, thanks. The best move IMHO would be to nicely explain to Jane (in front of SM) that she is a wonderful person in every respect, that what has been done in the heat of the moment has been done, but that you can't have a relationship and even make love without strong feelings, and that amazingly, you have felt those feelings for SM as soon as you saw her. Your "honesty" and sensibility will be without fail your ticket to SM panties (of course, presuming you already mesh well with her).
I've had EXACTLY the same situation with 6+ Margo and 9+ Dasha (who was not only outrageously hot but also genuine and smart) in Chisinau and applied this very same strategy. And got Dasha for a great one-month relationship. Margo never dropped down though and tried to stalk us during the whole period. I tried to connect her to ISG brother-in-arm Zippy but he didn't want her. lol
Chasing in Moscow clubs seems fun as hell BTW. Hope we can meet when I'll be in town.
I need to disagree.
Before of all, here men are not "deviants" (as you said), in fact I smile when I read posts here because these are childish things in comparison of what, for example, my married work colleagues usually think and DO with prostitutes (with similar ages of their daughters).
The reality is men in Western countries have forgot what is genuine sex.
It is our nature of males and females, men want to fuck at least once a day, and to fuck mouth, pussy and ass, and to fuck more than one girl at the same time, and females are happy to try new sexual experiences.
Instead it is unnatural when society prevent freedom of sex.
[QUOTE=Prosal]+1. That is the all point of mongering. Always wanting more. In that respect, we are all here sexual deviants in some way.
...
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Prosal]+1. That is the all point of mongering. Always wanting more. In that respect, we are all here sexual deviants in some way.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed except I do not think it is deviance. I think pretending to yourself that you will be satisfied with one woman for the rest of your life, until death do you part, is pretty deviant. The hound dog behavior demonstrated by our brethren is actually much more in line with how things are for most men.
But thinking it will ever satisfy is fooling yourself.
AM
[QUOTE=Prosal]...
Chasing in Moscow clubs seems fun as hell BTW....[/QUOTE]
Right !
That's why Prosal I suggested you Moscow as city where to spend your 3 months holidays and even 1 month and half in Moscow is better than 3 months in any other cities....imho.
[QUOTE=Lukasek]That's why Prosal I suggested you Moscow as city where to spend your 3 months holidays and even 1 month and half in Moscow is better than 3 months in any other cities....imho.[/QUOTE]
You're surely right Luka, nonetheless wherever I can go, I deeply believe that the more you stay in one single place (wheverer it is in FSU), the more chances you have to score true top-level women. Two weeks is just not long enough. One month is better. Two monthes is top-notch. Three monthes and you may never want to leave.
Any FSU city with a population of 700 000 + can be heaven if you spend enough time there IMO (of course, only if you accept all the discomfort, drawbacks, disappointments and immense moments of solitude, boredom and doubt that implies a long stay in a FSU second-tier city). Anyhow I personally wouldn't change three weeks in Novokursnetsk, Rostov-on-Don or Vladivostok (well, ok, admittedly places where I've never been, but am eager to visit) for three weeks in Rio or Bangkok. But as usual, to each its own.
[QUOTE=Lukasek]Right !
That's why Prosal I suggested you Moscow as city where to spend your 3 months holidays and even 1 month and half in Moscow is better than 3 months in any other cities....imho.[/QUOTE]
It [b]is[/b] fun, but it's not cheap... not by any stretch of the imagination. I'm not an oligarch, but I do have a salary well into the 6 figures (usd, eur, gbp - your pick), and routinely spend $500 on a night out (and that's [b]not[/b] including any p4p). Granted, I only go out a night or two a week on average, but even that equates to something on the order of $30K/year for "entertainment".
If you're hitting the provinces, it'll likely be twice as cheap, if not better. And higher "white god factor", most likely. Along with poor (on average) English skills among the resident deffki, another problem with the provincial cities is lack of anonymity. You won't have the same breadth of cafes, clubs, restaurants that a huge, cosmopolitan city like Moscow will give you. And thus, if you burn bridges with someone in a small city, it's more likely to come back and bite you in the ass.
Prosal - send me a PM when you know your schedule and hopefully we can hook up for a mojito.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Prosal - send me a PM when you know your schedule and hopefully we can hook up for a mojito.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for the mojito offer Pizdyets.
It will be a nice change from what, given my budget, will obviously be my everyday in Moscow, that is drinking Stolichnaya from the bottle in parks. :o
Well I have never been in Russia before, and therefore I want to go to Russia because I like Russian girls. But which city to go? Which city in Russia are much more easy to get girl for dating?
I appreciate more tip and advice.
[QUOTE=Jake Vio]Well I have never been in Russia before, and therefore I want to go to Russia because I like Russian girls. But which city to go? Which city in Russia are much more easy to get girl for dating?
I appreciate more tip and advice.[/QUOTE]Jake,
if you want dating for free than probably Moscow is the best option.
If you want paid sex - Kharkov, Ukraine or Russian provinces are a good option. In Kharkov, for example, you can find a good girl for 30-40 dollars.
[QUOTE=Dymytry]Jake,
if you want dating for free than probably Moscow is the best option.
If you want paid sex - Kharkov, Ukraine or Russian provinces are a good option. In Kharkov, for example, you can find a good girl for 30-40 dollars.[/QUOTE]But keep in mind, that "dating for free" in Moscow will be far more expensive than "dating" not for free" lol. should be more fun though.
[QUOTE=Alxxx]But keep in mind, that "dating for free" in Moscow will be far more expensive than "dating" not for free" lol. should be more fun though.[/QUOTE]
Amen to that, bro, on both counts.
Hello,
I have been dating a Russian woman on the internet for a while. We will meet. She wants to go Vilnius, Lithuania. I live in Sweden. She has got a rail ticket Moscow. Vilnius and paid for 3 single nights in Vilnius. We are planing to stay at the same hotel. Now she says that she will go to China, for a business trip, and since her passport expires in September (China demands min. 6 months validity after the last date on her Chinese visa) , she needs to get a new passport. Can she still use her old passport for the trip to Lithuania, and make the new passport. Or does she need to hand in the old passport while making a new passport, barring her for international trips for a month. Or is she lying. She is in her 30:s and is good looking. I have not sent any money. There seem to be some special, not Schengen, visa valid for Lithuania, if you have prepaid everything. She seems to have enough money, but as I have only met her in Skype, who knows.
My question: Can you make a new passport (international and biometric) and still continue to use the old one.
It seems that they last year, in Russia, made some new biometric passports, why did she not get a new one at that time, valid for 10 years. If she, as she says is working for a big international company in Moscow, it seems strange. Maybe she just does not want to meet me.
[QUOTE=Skane Henrik;1121449]My question: Can you make a new passport (international and biometric) and still continue to use the old one.[/QUOTE]That's a tough one. Most countries do not want you to have two valid regular passports at the same time. While it's possible to have two passports, it's more common for one of them to be valid for a shorter period. The problem is that getting a new International passport in Russia can take forever. Sometimes up to 6 months. A lot of it has to do with where you live now and where you are actually from.
Many countries (USA) require you to surrender your existing passport (if it is still valid) while you have applied for a new one. In the US, it's not that much of a problem because turnaround for a renewal is quick. But in Russia (I am told) , it might take a long time to renew your passport so apparently, there is a new law that lets you KEEP your existing passport while your new one is being processed. But once you apply for the new one, the passport office puts big hole in your old one signifying that you have a new one in process.
So I dunno man. Maybe she has changed her mind.
Good luck
It seems that she has changed her mind. It was not exactly true about visa, biometric passports and so on. It seems that you can ("can" used in a Russian way) use the old passport, while you are making a new passport. But she "did not have time to go Lithuania".
Ok, no money lost for me. That is life.
A lot has been written about dating Russian women. They are a lot different from Western women in a lot ways so what I add in this post is not so much a new perspective on anything so much as a recap of an interesting conversation I had recently with a Russian woman. She's lived in Moscow for about 10 years but was born and raised in Siberia. So I guess that does not really make a Moskvitchka in the true sense but for the purpose of this discussion I think she can qualify. She's in her early 30's. A professional with a very good salary. Probably makes more money than 95% of Moscow women.
No, I'm not fucking her (yet) so it was a pretty candid conversation in her apartment over tea. We had gone out with a group of people (mostly colleagues) to this concert and several of us ended up at her apartment (let's call her Oksana) for tea. Everyone was gone except me and we chatted over one last pot of tea. It was an interesting conversation reflecting on her last boyfriend (Let's call him Boris). He wasn't Russian but British. Well, he was born and raised in Britain to Russian parents who emigrated. He's fluent in Russian so she decided she might get the best of both worlds.
She told me they went on vacation together to the tropics and that she left him after a few days and went to another island. I asked her why and she said because he treated her badly. After a lot of probing I found out that the source of the problem was that Boris insisted that she pay her fair share of the holiday. Just to be clear, they are both professionals earning about the same amount of money (truth be told I think she earns more).
I pressed her a bit on her logic and she said that the man HAS to pay. It's just the way it is. After all, he's just using her. Using her body, using her time, using her emotion and it's only 50:50 at best that he will even stick around so why SHOULDN'T he pay?
I think that comment speaks volumes about the mindset of your average Moscow girl these days.
Anyone care to chime in?
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1136659].
After all, he's just using her. Using her body, using her time, using her emotion and it's only 50:50 at best that he will even stick around so why SHOULDN'T he pay?
[/QUOTE]Hey Jake if I was you, I replied to her: " he is using you IN THE SAME WAY as you use him, use his body, his time and his emotions.".
The real question, only half ironical, is why shouldn't SHE pay him?
Cause she has pussy?
ASAP better we realize we have dick and not they have pussy.
The real problem?
There are too little Boris in the world to change the female attitudes in these times, too many men are so desperate for a piece of pussy and willing to pay without problem any price, these men spoil forever women for all us and the women understood so well their power-pussy and they, and not we, are using us.
What is really interesting is that the Oksana type usually, sooner or later, fall in love for the typical "bastard", the Man that do not care to pay, that has many women and that he plays hard to get with women in the same way women play with every man and believe it or not, for this man women as Oksana will give gifts and so on to catch his attention.
The 90% of men fight between themself to get 10% of women and the 10% of men can easily have the 90% of women without fighting at all :D
[QUOTE=Jake993;1136659]Anyone care to chime in?[/QUOTE]Personally I NEVER EVER let my GFs pay for their drinks, entrance to a club, share in restaurant or whatever. IMO this is not only a question of elementary male courtesy, but this also reminds them of their status in the relationship, and who is the dominant player.
Nonetheless I also never let them dictate me how spend money on them, it would be pathetic to do so.
Every (true) Russian woman expects the man to pay. This is the way they have been raised. Makes no difference where they are; Tahiti, L. A, Manhattan or Odessa (Texas). This is a fundamental understanding all Russian women have about men.
I have met many Russian women here in the States. Most of them came here as the bride of an American man and then split up. At some point they find themselves dating again and eventually they all come to me (well, the ones who know me) for advice: about American men. Russian women find American men almost as difficult to understand as Russian women are for us. One of the problems Russian women have is that American men expect the woman to pay for everything and this is simply incomprehensible to a Russian woman. Of course, they don't understand that American men have been trained to act this way by American women. So, I have to explain to them the history of male / female relationships in America over the past 40 years. American women have basically lost any vestigial remains of femininity and no longer bear any resemblance to an actual woman. But I digress. . . Jackson has a whole thread devoted to American women and we could discuss that subject ad nauseum.
I remember something I read by Nietzsche once, long time ago, and it has always stuck in my head,"there are no men here, therefore their women make themselves as men. For only a man can truly redeem the woman in woman." Yes, Friedrich could be a little corny at times, but it has a certain ring of truth to it.
So, what's all this got to do with your dyev? Lukasek is absolutely right: the poor thing is conflicted. She has reached a point in her life where she has enough disposable income to call the shots. But, way deep down inside her Russkaya dooshah, she yearns for a real man who will dominate her. Slap her around a little when she's bad, keep her in line and give her direction and purpose in her life.
Because, ultimately, that's the only way she can be sure he really loves her.
In that regard, us Western guys can all take a lesson from our Russian brethren. Never spoil the female, it leads to nothing but disaster. Keep her on the straight and narrow, never ask her to make important decisions: it just makes her nervous and irritable. Take charge, make the decisions, call the shots and be sure to pay for everything and she will be happy. And when a Russian woman is truly happy, well. . . We should all be so lucky.
[QUOTE=Lukasek;1136675]The 90% of men fight between themself to get 10% of women and the 10% of men can easily have the 90% of women without fighting at all :D[/QUOTE]Luka. You crack me up. You really do. That is hilarious but so, so true.
Prosal. Well put. Pay for everything. Call the shots. Everyone is happy. Or as happy as a Russia woman CAN be.
Strav. Philosophic as always. But that is a VERY interesting analysis. And you are probably right too. I never though for one second that Russian women had the same quandary over American men that we do about them. But now that you mention it, I bet it DOES cause them some heartburn. Being all attentive and "touchy feely" one minute and then expecting their half of the bill the next. I never really gave it much thought.
Went to the new Chesterfield's last night (Thursday).
Apparently, Thursday nights are Latin Night.
OH. MY. GOD.
There had to have been 200 chicks there ALL wanting to latin dance.
The 15 or 20 guys were getting over whelmed.
They had a Latino dance band on stage and the place was throbbing.
Of course, not ALL chicks who like to latin dance are hot but there was a respectable percentage that were most definitely fuckable.
Check it out. Novy Arbat. 19
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1174176]Went to the new Chesterfield's last night (Thursday).
Apparently, Thursday nights are Latin Night.
OH. MY. GOD.
There had to have been 200 chicks there ALL wanting to latin dance.
The 15 or 20 guys were getting over whelmed.
They had a Latino dance band on stage and the place was throbbing.
Of course, not ALL chicks who like to latin dance are hot but there was a respectable percentage that were most definitely fuckable.
Check it out. Novy Arbat. 19[/QUOTE]Thanks Jack, that's useful info. Salsa clubs in FSU, it's like shooting fish in a barrel, if you are white (non african) and dance salsa. You babnik you! (wink)
Jake,
Thanks for the heads up on the new Chesterfield's. Not only was Thursday Latin night, but it looks like you got in for free. Did you find someone to take home? Or was it strictly dancing?
[url]http://www.chester-bar.ru[/url]
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1136659]She told me they went on vacation together to the tropics and that she left him after a few days and went to another island. I asked her why and she said because he treated her badly. After a lot of probing I found out that the source of the problem was that Boris insisted that she pay her fair share of the holiday. Just to be clear, they are both professionals earning about the same amount of money (truth be told I think she earns more).
I pressed her a bit on her logic and she said that the man HAS to pay. It's just the way it is. After all, he's just using her. Using her body, using her time, using her emotion and it's only 50:50 at best that he will even stick around so why SHOULDN'T he pay?[/QUOTE]Well, this is an unusual situation. Usually we are dealing with dyevs who make far less that us so it is completely unreasonable to expect that they should pay. So the question is moot.
In fact, often they are dating us in part to experience the nice things that money can buy, and to be treated "like a lady". Wined and dined and whatnot.
Furthermore, there is kind of an implicit bargain. We pay for dinner and they repay us with sex.
A great bargain! (I don't mean bargain as "cheap" since P4P may be cheaper, but bargain as an agreement).
Why would we want to change that?
So this case, which I guess is becoming more common, is when the woman actually has the resources, but still expects the man to pay.
First, she was raised in the environment mentioned above. Women could not pay so the man always did. That mindset is not going to change overnight.
Second, having a man who is willing and able to pay is her normal way of judging whether the man is worthy or not. What other criteria can she use?
In fact, it is mostly the same in the west. A successful and affluent woman does not say,"I have enough $ to pay, so I will Joe the good-looking mechanic at the garage."
No, she uses her comfortable position to reach higher in the successful male hierarchy. It was always thus and continues to be so.
The difference is that buying a western woman dinner will not automatically lead to sex (not by a long shot) , whereas with Russian women the odds are pretty good.
So we should not bemoan that increasingly affluent dyevs continue to expect a free lunch (which, in any event we expect them to pay for in other coin).
We should celebrate it and continue to exploit it. Nevertheless, we must also do as Prosal and Strav advise, pay. But control the decision-making and remain the "man" in the relationship.
GT
Hello,
I have read this forum with great pleasure (thank you all!) and have now reached a point when I will make a post. First post out is asking you for advice on a date since there must be a massive amount of experience here of dating Russian girls. I have had contact with a girl through Mamba. Ru, and now we are about to meet. Not any big plans or so, just meeting for a chat. Anyway, I am in Moscow, and she is of course in Moscow. So far so good. No first class tickets payed over WU here.
I have dated Russian women before, but never in Moscow, only back in Europe. Western "civilization" should not have changed them too much, should it? So, what makes me hesitate is that she suggested to meet. OK, I'm quite well-behaved and look good, but for me it is very usual that women ask men out. And I definitely did not expect this in Moscow. The ones of you who are more updated on the Moscow dating scene maybe can tell if there is something fishy or if I'm just being paranoid?
In case all goes well I might have material for a report, my very first case story. So thanks in advance for your answers!
Yes, I read Alexxx' wise words: " "dating for free" in Moscow will be far more expensive than "dating" not for free"; but I will still try.
[QUOTE=RikkyT;1243624]The ones of you who are more updated on the Moscow dating scene maybe can tell if there is something fishy or if I'm just being paranoid?[/QUOTE]You're being paranoid. The worst thing you could do would be to over-think the situation. Forget everything you think you know about women and just relax and enjoy the ride.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1136872]And when a Russian woman is truly happy, well. We should all be so lucky.[/QUOTE]Dated a White Russian, alway the man, always in charge, always paid for dinner. I'm 54 and have had more pussy than any man should really have in a life time and she ranked #1. I still remember her crawling to bed, offering her ass without any mention of it on my part. She was a sexual dynamo. And as many dinners and theaters I paid for she cooked me breakfast overtime I stayed over even if it meant getting up an hour early. She paid attention to what I liked and bought only the best. 40 but had the body of a 20 year old, salsa three times a week. I was a fool (young) to let that one go.
Simon,
Sounds like you are a true believer. (smile)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1244080]You're being paranoid. The worst thing you could do would be to over-think the situation.[/QUOTE]Thanks Stravinsky! First encounter with her was Not. She didn't show up, but it seemed like a misunderstanding? Well, I had a back-up plan as always since Russia might not turn out as planned. Sorry I couldn't contribute with a review though.
[QUOTE]Forget everything you think you know about women and just relax and enjoy the ride.[/QUOTE]I know nothing about women, who does know WTF is going on in their little brains, really?
Dear friends,
I'm currently on Czech Republic for a year, but I'll move to Rostov on Don next September. I have never been in Russia before, and I'll be spending the first 3 months in a intensive Russian language course before starting to work, so I guess I'll have plenty of free time.
I have no clue about the dating scene over there, or, for that matter, about Russian girls mentality or habits specifically in "provinces" even it's an over one million people city.
Being 37 what will be the age range for me there? I'm fit and been told good looking, but not tall (only 1, 78m) don't know about Russia, but in Czech Republic girls are easily over 1, 80m, so not sure if that will be too negative for me in Russia.
Sure, there are many Russian girls here, but they are "westernized", I see no difference with a Czech girl.
I'll be renting an apartment, any experiences in this city from experts about best zone, security etc?
Any tip will be more than welcome to date that devushkas.
Thanks in advance for your wisdom, it's a pleasure to read this forum.
Matt
[QUOTE=RikkyT;1243624]Yes, I read Alexxx' wise words: " "dating for free" in Moscow will be far more expensive than "dating" not for free"; but I will still try.[/QUOTE]Having been out with a few. And married one. This is VERY true of ALL Russian women, wherever they come from. They are beautiful though!
[QUOTE=Spanish Main;1279716]This is VERY true of ALL Russian women,[/QUOTE]Let me disagree on that. I know MANY Russian women who are low-maintenance, honest, and prefer romantic quiet cafes to expensive restaurants and spend evenings at home fucking a guy they really like to be with instead of going out to glam clubs. And oddly enough, from my experience, higher class girls (especially successful young professionals) are often the ones I have spent the least amount of money on. They already have access to the best their society has to offer and what they miss out in life is only a bit of romance and sex.
My current current Russian GF is separated from an oligarch who still largely provides to all her financial needs, doesn't care to go out in restaurants, and have absolutly NO materialistic expectations with me (still, I'm happy to make them sometimes small but thoughful gifts like a box of expensive chocolates, ect).
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1136872]Every (true) Russian woman expects the man to pay. This is the way they have been raised. Makes no difference where they are; Tahiti, L. A, Manhattan or Odessa (Texas). This is a fundamental understanding all Russian women have about men.
I have met many Russian women here in the States. Most of them came here as the bride of an American man and then split up. At some point they find themselves dating again and eventually they all come to me (well, the ones who know me) for advice: about American men. Russian women find American men almost as difficult to understand as Russian women are for us. One of the problems Russian women have is that American men expect the woman to pay for everything and this is simply incomprehensible to a Russian woman. Of course, they don't understand that American men have been trained to act this way by American women. So, I have to explain to them the history of male / female relationships in America over the past 40 years. American women have basically lost any vestigial remains of femininity and no longer bear any resemblance to an actual woman. But I digress. Jackson has a whole thread devoted to American women and we could discuss that subject ad nauseum.
I remember something I read by Nietzsche once, long time ago, and it has always stuck in my head,"there are no men here, therefore their women make themselves as men. For only a man can truly redeem the woman in woman." Yes, Friedrich could be a little corny at times, but it has a certain ring of truth to it.
So, what's all this got to do with your dyev? Lukasek is absolutely right: the poor thing is conflicted. She has reached a point in her life where she has enough disposable income to call the shots. But, way deep down inside her Russkaya dooshah, she yearns for a real man who will dominate her. Slap her around a little when she's bad, keep her in line and give her direction and purpose in her life.
Because, ultimately, that's the only way she can be sure he really loves her.
In that regard, us Western guys can all take a lesson from our Russian brethren. Never spoil the female, it leads to nothing but disaster. Keep her on the straight and narrow, never ask her to make important decisions: it just makes her nervous and irritable. Take charge, make the decisions, call the shots and be sure to pay for everything and she will be happy. And when a Russian woman is truly happy, well. We should all be so lucky.[/QUOTE]Stravinsky. These are words of wisdom.
In my experience, the Russian expects and wants you to pay, not because she thinks about money, but only because she expects you to act as a man.
So the man must pay, but you don't need to go to expensive places.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy;1279758]So the man must pay, but you don't need to go to expensive places.[/QUOTE]+1. And it is true even for first dates. If you take a girl to a too flashy place, she can think that you're the kind of man who wants to impress at all cost, lacks of self-confidence and needs a decorum all around him to hide his lack of personality, charm and witt.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy;1279758]So the man must pay, but you don't need to go to expensive places.[/QUOTE]+1. And it is true even for first dates. If you take a girl to a too flashy place, she can think that you're the kind of man who wants to impress at all cost, lacks of self-confidence and needs a "stage setting" to hide his lack of personality, charm and witt.
A while back I used to date my boss, who made 1. 3 to 1. 5 times as much as I did. Sometimes we went out for drinks and / or food with co-workers and being the boss, she often volunteered to pick up the bill. No, it was not deductible; it was out of her pocket, anywhere from 100 to 500 USD, and at least once per week. However, when she went out with me, only me, she expected me to pay for her.
On another case I lived with a woman who had 2 houses on her property. Actually, one 3 bedroom house, and a one bedroom apartment with a large garage. She rented the larger house to a family and we moved in for a few months into the smaller house. She actually wanted me to pay rent to her, and she wanted to charge me more than she was charging the family of strangers for the entire large house.
Third example: I was ready to make it permanent with a woman. Staying with her meant I had to work as a trader, which meant I could potentially make far more money than she did, but it would be more variable, and not guaranteed, at least at first. However, she just could not get used to the idea that she would be the one with the regular paycheque, or our steady source of income. Eventually, I had to get a regular job, which meant leaving her.
That was in the good US of A, with women who were well-educated, financially secure and supposedly feminists.
I currently live in eastern Europe now and usually make far more than the women I date. I do not mind paying but I do appreciate it when they at least makes me feel like we are working together. I really appreciate it when a woman quickly digs into her purse for loose change to avoid making me break another large bill. Or when she buys a few small items without asking for money. To me those are the keepers.
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1136659]A lot has been written about dating Russian women. They are a lot different from Western women in a lot ways so what I add in this post is not so much a new perspective on anything so much as a recap of an interesting conversation I had recently with a Russian woman. She's lived in Moscow for about 10 years but was born and raised in Siberia. So I guess that does not really make a Moskvitchka in the true sense but for the purpose of this discussion I think she can qualify. She's in her early 30's. A professional with a very good salary. Probably makes more money than 95% of Moscow women.
No, I'm not fucking her (yet) so it was a pretty candid conversation in her apartment over tea. We had gone out with a group of people (mostly colleagues) to this concert and several of us ended up at her apartment (let's call her Oksana) for tea. Everyone was gone except me and we chatted over one last pot of tea. It was an interesting conversation reflecting on her last boyfriend (Let's call him Boris). He wasn't Russian but British. Well, he was born and raised in Britain to Russian parents who emigrated. He's fluent in Russian so she decided she might get the best of both worlds.
She told me they went on vacation together to the tropics and that she left him after a few days and went to another island. I asked her why and she said because he treated her badly. After a lot of probing I found out that the source of the problem was that Boris insisted that she pay her fair share of the holiday. Just to be clear, they are both professionals earning about the same amount of money (truth be told I think she earns more).
I pressed her a bit on her logic and she said that the man HAS to pay. It's just the way it is. After all, he's just using her. Using her body, using her time, using her emotion and it's only 50:50 at best that he will even stick around so why SHOULDN'T he pay?
I think that comment speaks volumes about the mindset of your average Moscow girl these days.
Anyone care to chime in?[/QUOTE]
Well, you do not have to have a real facebook account. I have one with a fake name, like here, strictly for dating. I am single so I have no wife to worry about, but still, I do not want my family and co-workers knowing about my sex life. I do not post anything (one any of my facebook accounts) but I do keep track of other people and the girls get to size up their competition.
[QUOTE=Explorer69;986854]I have had several "girlfriends" ask me to join facebook for keeping contact! My blood froze immediately! I will never, ever join facebook or any other of the social websites. It will be the start of the road to social disaster.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Prosal;1280529]+1. And it is true even for first dates. If you take a girl to a too flashy place, she can think that you're the kind of man who wants to impress at all cost, lacks of self-confidence and needs a decorum all around him to hide his lack of personality, charm and witt.[/QUOTE]Well that's only true if it's an atypical place for you. I mean if you're rich or like fancy restaurants, more power to you. But I had a friend once who always wanted me and him to say we were bankers when out in Moscow. It might work for a one-night stand, but even then you have to drop money in the club / bar. You can't say you're a banker, with a fancy watch, and then count your bills to see if you can pay for her long island iced tea. And after that first night it was a horrible strategy as now their expectations would be very high.
As with most things with women, the more information you give to them the generally worse off you will be. Better to keep her guessing what your salary and general status are. I mean you should be giving the hints an EE woman looks for, like nice clothes, a watch, decent cell phone, knowledge of travel (or even names of cocktails) , things of that nature. But beyond that don't say anything.
In fact in my experience, one of the best answers to "what are you doing in Moscow/Kiev/Minsk?" is neither honesty (we all know that) or lying (saying you have a long-term job there) but rather dodging the question entirely by just saying "dela." She will push you on that but just say you have your own business matters to take care of and that's why you're here. Keep her guessing. Russian men do not discuss their business dealings with women, and the intrigue will work in your favor. Maybe she has a fantasy of being roughed up by an arms dealer. Maybe she wants to find an i-banker type in the jet set. Maybe she wants a man with a stable job who leaves his work at the workplace and just wants to have fun. If you're ambiguous she can pick whichever fantasy she wants.
This is completely different than in the states where in singles bars the first several minutes is usually about your profession/job.
[QUOTE=Latexian2;1281604]Russian men do not discuss their business dealings with women, and the intrigue will work in your favor.[/QUOTE]This is very true. If a Russian man is married, he might talk about it with his wife. But some dyevchonka he picked up somewhere? Never. It's really none of her business.
The girls will press you if you are a foreigner, because foreigners have a way of, well, disappearing. The Russian guys will always be around, somewhere.
Most important is that you have money, or at least [b]look[/b] Like you have money. And if she presses you too much about what you do, just say,"это не ваше дело" (it's none of your business). This will either [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] her off or increase her curiousity. Either way, it could be fun. :)
Yep using the formal 'vashe' after you've had sex with her is sure to annoy her.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1282306]This is very true. If a Russian man is married, he might talk about it with his wife. But some dyevchonka he picked up somewhere? Never. It's really none of her business.
The girls will press you if you are a foreigner, because foreigners have a way of, well, disappearing. The Russian guys will always be around, somewhere.
Most important is that you have money, or at least [b]look[/b] Like you have money. And if she presses you too much about what you do, just say,"&1101; &1090; &1086; &1085; &1077; &1074; &1072; &1096; &1077; &1076; &1077; &1083; &1086;" (it's none of your business). This will either [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] her off or increase her curiousity. Either way, it could be fun.[/QUOTE]
One of those lovely nuances of the Russian language that English lost a long time ago.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;1283373]When EE girls come to visit you in Paris, how much does it cost you in terms of taking them out, clubbing, restaurants, drinks, taxis, metro.[/QUOTE]I posted this answer to JJ in the Minsk thread, but maybe it has better its place here. Just to point out once more that the Russian women's mentality on vacation is very positive. They don't mind riding the bus, are totally happy with dinners in mid-level romantic restaurants, boozing in nice but unpretentious bars, ect. No posh places, no glam clubs. No need. Most important is to actually take care of their well-being, fulfill their touristic expectations (long romantic strolls, visits of picturesque areas, monuments, ect) , and at the same time satisfy them emotionally, intellectually and sexually.
Had a 23 yo Belarus student at home this weekend, with who I was "relationship building" on internet since almost two year. She is on a Germany, France and Italy bus tour (her first trip in western Europe) and quitted the group to stay two days with me.
Saturday: meeting at 8 pm. Stroll to my favorite bar where we had 4 cocktail each on the terrace (was happy hour) , bill 40 €. Nocturnal romantic stroll to Notre Dame that lasted some two hours. Stop at a nice mexican place where we had three Coronas each + chip, salsa and guacamole, bill 45 €. Long romantic stroll to my home (I live near the Opera). Cost of the night in town: 85 €.
Sunday: wake up at 11am, tea at home, she wasn't hungry. Bus to her hotel (2 € each) so that she can change clothes. From her hotel, long stroll through picturesque areas, at 4 pm stop in a nice typical french brasserie near my home, she wasn't hungry, I had to force her to share with me one plate of frogs and one creme brulée, this with thow bottles of Chardonnais, bill 60 €. Back home for a wild fuck and more wine. At 11 pm, walk to a modest brasilian place with live music and great atmosphere, three beers each and some "casquinho de caranquejo" (crabmeat covered with manioc) , bill 42 €. Walk back home. Cost of the day: 110 €.
Monday (was vacation day here) : wake up at 11 am, cafe plus croissant at a cafe terrace, bill 12 €. Stroll and suntanning at the Louvre Gardens during two hours. Shopping to La Maison du Chocolat (high-end stuff) where I buy her as a gift some chocolate truffes, cost 28 €. Then stop in a cafe, one omelette for two and a bottle of rosé at the terrace, bill 34 €. Taxi to her hotel 10 €. Her bus leaves at 3 pm to Nice and then Italy. Long kiss goodbye. Cost of the day: 85 € (gift included)
Cost of the weekend: around 280 €. She sent an sms from the bus to say that she will be grateful forever for this weekend that was the most wonderful of her life.
As a side note: what great women Russian women are. Beside being honest, emotional, smart, cultured, witty, selfless, fun and great conversationalists, again and again I'm amazed by their liking for no-holds barred sex and their skills at oral. They are definitely the best and most enthousiastic blowers on the planet. It's literally amazing. There must be some special schools in Russia where they learn to suck dicks. She was with my cock like a starving dog in front of a roast chicken. No way to move her away from it, even by force (not that I tried too harshly though).
What a great weekend.
dr. chris swader of moscow's national research institute has a scientific take on a topic often discussed here: "the commodification of intimacy? the practice of compensated dating in moscow". he seems to be touring europe with his lecture (abstract here:
[url]http://regconf.hse.ru/uploads/2e60d35a3fbbd4b4084164abcaefb0b445507a27.pdf[/url]
) , next stop uppsala university in sweden on september 11.
»evidence from online sources, realworld 'speed dating' investigations, and from qualitative interviews describes compensated dating as a hybrid practice with connections to both commercial sex and romantic love, yet distinct from both, « the scholar states. a fair verdict imho.
[quote=banaanovich; 1321448]dr. chris swader of moscow's national research institute has a scientific take on a topic often discussed here: "the commodification of intimacy? the practice of compensated dating in moscow". he seems to be touring europe with his lecture (abstract here:
[url]http://regconf.hse.ru/uploads/2e60d35a3fbbd4b4084164abcaefb0b445507a27.pdf[/url]
) , next stop uppsala university in sweden on september 11.
»evidence from online sources, realworld 'speed dating' investigations, and from qualitative interviews describes compensated dating as a hybrid practice with connections to both commercial sex and romantic love, yet distinct from both, « the scholar states. a fair verdict imho.[/quote]thank you so much for this link. it's priceless. i love it. compensated dating. it's a perfect description. and in russia (especially moscow) it works perfectly because you have a relatively high concentration of men with relatively (disproportionately) high incomes who have the looks and social skills of neanderthals and a lot of hot women who can't afford to maintain the lifestyle to which they want to be accustomed to. without compensated dating, these guys would never get laid and these girls would never be able to afford the shoes, clothes and vacation they want. talk about quid pro quo. we have discussed this on this board to the point of boredom, but it bears repeating that this so called "compensated dating" is in large part responsible for pulling some of the best hotties off the p4p market in moscow and jacking the prices up. were it not for compensated dating (aka sponsorship) you would probably see a lot more competition for p4p dollars.
he suggests that this practice lies somewhere between prostitution and dating. and imho, he is 100% bang on. these girls in no way consider themselves pros, but in fact it's exactly what they are doing. and on the other side of the equation, i bet that a lot of these guys absolutely hate the idea of visiting a prostitute because of psychological or social issues. they are happy to shell out regular cash to keep a girl (or several girls) "on call" because they can afford it. and let's not forget the married guy whose wife drives him bananas and wants to keep a few girls on the side.
you have to hand it to this guy for writing a paper on the topic. i's love to hear the lecture just for it's comedic value alone.
good catch.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1323872]Compensated dating. It's a perfect description. Good catch.[/QUOTE]Right, good catch. I didn't know that the concept came from Japan. What never ceases to amaze me is that the high-end clubs in "poor" FSU (Moldova, Uzbekistan, Ukraine, ect) are literally crawling with girls wearing designers clothes, expensive bags, fancy watches, Louboutin heels, with the latest Iphone 4S, ect. How girls can afford this? Certainly not from their wages, when you know that a girl working in a shop, in Kharkov or Chisinau, earns at best 200 €/month.
That said, there is IMO a whole stratum of female population in Russia who wouldn't even consider the idea of "compensated dating" (successfull young office professionals, intellectual or arty girls, ect). This is the best target for us (or those of us) who can't compete with Moscow money!
Agreed, compensated says a lot, but in the long run, it may get a bit. Dull. May question to yah all (seems to fit in this thread.). How would slavic women feel about going together with a friend to (a compensated) date in a strip bar? I don't go there much myself, seem to remember seeing men with girlfriends there (might have been dancers having a break). Think this might be interesting with my (young) girlfriend (s) , as a compensation or alteration for watching porn with her. Has anyone s-g to report?
[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1325343]Agreed, compensated says a lot, but in the long run, it may get a bit. Dull. May question to yah all (seems to fit in this thread.). How would slavic women feel about going together with a friend to (a compensated) date in a strip bar? I don't go there much myself, seem to remember seeing men with girlfriends there (might have been dancers having a break). Think this might be interesting with my (young) girlfriend (s) , as a compensation or alteration for watching porn with her. Has anyone s-g to report?[/QUOTE]In my experience visiting a strip-bar with a FSU woman is not a taboo, is almost "normal", generally speaking. They are quite used to it, and sometimes can be rewarding. Some friends have had very interesting experiences, mine have benn only "spicy". Lesbian sex there is neither a taboo. Remember most women want to enjoy life, and love surprises. And if your life is a difficult one, you'll be hungrier for nice and new experiences. Of course these are general rules, and for sure there are many exceptions.
[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1325343]Agreed, compensated says a lot, but in the long run, it may get a bit. Dull. May question to yah all (seems to fit in this thread.). How would slavic women feel about going together with a friend to (a compensated) date in a strip bar? I don't go there much myself, seem to remember seeing men with girlfriends there (might have been dancers having a break). Think this might be interesting with my (young) girlfriend (s) , as a compensation or alteration for watching porn with her. Has anyone s-g to report?[/QUOTE]I've done it two or three times, it was not a positive experience. The GFs felt rather uncomfortable, which, admittedly, is comprehensible. Strip clubs, despite all their wonders, are by nature a bit shady.
The only time I had a fun experience was with a GF herself stripper in a upscale club in Piter who visited me in Paris. Blondinka, eyes to get lost in, some 1. 80m plus Louboutin heels, hairs weaved with Zwarovski gems, sexy designers clothes, ect. The whole package. I took her to the local Hustler Club, and soon there was a dozen of EE strippers who came chatting. I downed two bottles of vodka with her and the girls. It was fun night indeed, as despite of those woman's talks, she remained very cuddly with me (which consolidated my position there).
[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1325343]Think this might be interesting with my (young) girlfriend (s) , as a compensation or alteration for watching porn with her. Has anyone s-g to report?[/QUOTE]As a side note and from my experience, Russian dyevs are MUCH more excited to the idea of going in a swingers club (not necessarily to participate, but as a spectator and if the mood is right, for public sex) than in a strip bar.
[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1325343]Agreed, compensated says a lot, but in the long run, it may get a bit. Dull. May question to yah all (seems to fit in this thread.). How would slavic women feel about going together with a friend to (a compensated) date in a strip bar? I don't go there much myself, seem to remember seeing men with girlfriends there (might have been dancers having a break). Think this might be interesting with my (young) girlfriend (s) , as a compensation or alteration for watching porn with her. Has anyone s-g to report?[/QUOTE]I have taken several girlfriends to strip clubs and the results have always been excellent. Firstly the working girls are more interested and then I have found that my
Girlfriends have been turned on. Even enjoyed a 3-some in Penthouse with one of the dancers. Highly recommended!
She is one of the girls I enjoy spending me free time with and we have great sex. But the problem is she only will have covered sex. And yes I have made a test and I always play safe. What she is telling me."but better to use them till you know that you and me will stay together for a long time and you will not betray me with another people"
I am out of options. Any suggestions on my move here?
DON'T DO IT! Just had a friend go bankrupt during his divorce from his "loving" Russian wife.
[QUOTE=Tomux 22; 1326023]She is one of the girls I enjoy spending me free time with and we have great sex. But the problem is she only will have covered sex. And yes I have made a test and I always play safe. What she is telling me."but better to use them till you know that you and me will stay together for a long time and you will not betray me with another people"
I am out of options. Any suggestions on my move here?[/QUOTE]Yeah that's a tough one to argue. I had the same situation a while back and one night we ran out of condoms. She was pretty horny and decided she would risk it. She never went back to the the "raincoat". Then, she broke it off with me and got engaged. Six months later the engagement was off and she came crawling back. However, she wanted me to cover up again. I am a patient man and expect it will be only a matter of time until we go "au natural" again. I also hide all but two condoms when she comes over now. Hee hee
BTW - I had a vasectomy years ago so the pregnancy card is off the table. This is all about safe sex.
[QUOTE=Tomux 22; 1326023]She is one of the girls I enjoy spending me free time with and we have great sex. But the problem is she only will have covered sex. And yes I have made a test and I always play safe. What she is telling me."but better to use them till you know that you and me will stay together for a long time and you will not betray me with another people"
I am out of options. Any suggestions on my move here?[/QUOTE]I only can speak from my own experience, but IMO condoms and slavic girls don't mix well. Those girls are too passionate, too emotional, too spontaneous, and they tend to follow their instinct without thinking twice (of course I am talking about girls who are into you, not prostitutes or sponsorettes). This is not really compatible with plastic. As is alcohol, and we all know that they drink like Cossaks.
I know there is nothing to be proud about, but I've never ever wrap it up in this part of the world. I mean never ever. I'm not joking. And as far as I can remember, the only two Russian girls who asked me to do so were russians living in Paris since a long time ie who started thinking with a western state of mind.
[QUOTE=PeterTheGreat;1326077]DON'T DO IT! Just had a friend go bankrupt during his divorce from his "loving" Russian wife.[/QUOTE]I know Russian women mentality to good to marry one my self. Sure they can be good wife's to a Russian guy. And sure there is exceptions where things can work out with diev and guy from west.
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1326111]Yeah that's a tough one to argue. I had the same situation a while back and one night we ran out of condoms. She was pretty horny and decided she would risk it. She never went back to the the "raincoat". Then, she broke it off with me and got engaged. Six months later the engagement was off and she came crawling back. However, she wanted me to cover up again. I am a patient man and expect it will be only a matter of time until we go "au natural" again. I also hide all but two condoms when she comes over now. Hee hee.
BTW. I had a vasectomy years ago so the pregnancy card is off the table. This is all about safe sex.[/QUOTE]I guess I will need to be patient and see what will happen in the future.)
[QUOTE=Jack2004;1325429]In my experience visiting a strip-bar with a FSU woman is not a taboo, is almost "normal", generally speaking. They are quite used to it, and sometimes can be rewarding. Some friends have had very interesting experiences, mine have benn only "spicy". Lesbian sex there is neither a taboo. Remember most women want to enjoy life, and love surprises. And if your life is a difficult one, you'll be hungrier for nice and new experiences. Of course these are general rules, and for sure there are many exceptions.[/QUOTE]Key sentence here: "there are many exceptions". Your experience is encouraging, but our french comrade mentions, some girls will not find this a good idea. So personality and experience has to be considered, and maybe outright asking my girls is adviceable in some cases, even if this takes away the surprise-effect. I guess a girl may be OK with first-time-visit to a strpclub if she feels safe that they have a say about what happens once she is inside. Then she might get some fancy idea herself. At least enjoy the show. I sure would. Thanks for responding boys.
[QUOTE=Roll Buzz;1326588]Key sentence here: "there are many exceptions". Your experience is encouraging, but our french comrade mentions, some girls will not find this a good idea. So personality and experience has to be considered, and maybe outright asking my girls is adviceable in some cases, even if this takes away the surprise-effect. I guess a girl may be OK with first-time-visit to a strpclub if she feels safe that they have a say about what happens once she is inside. Then she might get some fancy idea herself. At least enjoy the show. I sure would. Thanks for responding boys.[/QUOTE]My logical advice to increase the probabilities of having a good time: Choose a beautiful, elegant club, with good music, and beautiful girls. Of course avoid the shady, small, dirty or / and 'cheap'. And check the place before going with her.
Yeah, this also sounds sensible and may call for some planning, but we name no special venues here. There is a lot of info about clubs in every city, and then I usually get info from taxi drivers easily. Thanks, I am sure that with proper preparation this will be fun with my girls.
[QUOTE=Jack2004;1326993]My logical advice to increase the probabilities of having a good time: Choose a beautiful, elegant club, with good music, and beautiful girls. Of course avoid the shady, small, dirty or / and 'cheap'. And check the place before going with her.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=YummyPL; 1370571]Perhaps you are correct Prosal.
I have read many of your posts and have tried to learn from what you have said. On my profile, instead of using pictures of me in the casual clothes I am seen wearing on facebook, I am very well dressed in a variety of quality suits. I am a business man and my business plan is well laid out so I am consistent and thorough. I track my conversations on a spreadsheet. Yes, it is anal but I think it is smart when I am trying to juggle conversations with 20 girls in a language with which I have limited knowledge. Because I will be in Kiev often in 2013, my plan is more to build a network of girls to go out with rather than simply to fuck. I can always fuck prostitutes if I need to do that. My long term goal is for them to respect me enough that they are introducing me to their friends.
I am certainly new to the FSU game but I am taking it seriously. I have gone to Germany 10-12 times a year over the past 4 years and I know only a few words of German because I don't care. The Romainian girls in the FKKs will fuck me even if we don't talk at all. I am planning to go to Kiev often and I have made a significant effort to learn Russian and have some reasonable conversational skills already. I am 41, in good shape, decent looking, dress well (for an American) , am well traveled, have money to spend, and can speak some Russian. However, despite my good qualities, I am getting positive feedback from very attractive 18-20 year olds on VK (not Mamba) that I never would get back home. I may not have your French accent, but I should be able to do OK. If you think I am doing this wrong, please enlighten me. I seriously do respect your opinion and believe most, if not all, that have posted as it has been consistent and reasonable.
Oh, and I have 6 guy friends (colleagues from my real work) and 4 female friends (all requested by them). They may not be dumb, but neither am I.[/QUOTE]I "loled" and "rolleyed" just because I thought that you had on your VK friend list all the girls who wrote you back (40% of about 100 girls you sent messages to) , which is suicidal. If it's not the case, my bad. Personally I don't use VK because you can only hide 10 contacts, and having too many girls on your friend list definitively categorize you as a sex-hungry foreigner. Russian girls are indulgent, emotionally generous, passionate, but they are NOT naive. And Ukrainian girls even less so, as Ukraine is on the sex-tourism map since many years now and a foreigner is in Ukraine rather a subject of (legitimate) distrust than of attraction or of interest (I mean non-materialistic "genuine" interest). Displaying many girls on your friend list is an avowal of culpability.
Anyway your approach of "relationship building" is IMO right, and your goal, to create yourself a little stable of 5-6 girls with who you mesh well and who are worth a commitment is a good strategy. I don't really understand the guys who build relationship on internet with a girl just to have one or two dates and sex and bye bye. This is bound to lead to huge disappointment for the girls, which is unfair. My opinion is that many guys lack of empathy and compassion by seing things solely from a "what can I get from her" perpective. Of course, I am talking about "genuine", honest and emotionally generous girls, not about sneaky and conniving golddiggers, sponsorettes or serial daters, which are girls that you can manipulate very easily with cash and confidence, which is fair since they are essentially there to manipulate you too.
Here's one for anyone who might think they have anything to add.
I live in Moscow now so most of my "activity" is dating non-pro girls and not so much mongering, although on occasion I will partake in the pleasures of a banya girl or massagista at a bachelor party. But I digress.
I have been dating a Russian woman for several months now. She's in her late 30's but she's in fabulous shape having been a figure skater in her youth. During our first sexual encounter I was not surprised to find that she was completely clean shaven in her pubic regions. However, since that time, she has grown her pubic hair albeit in a very nicely trimmed "pelt" about 3 cm wide and 6 cm long up her tight little belly. Closer to the business end and the anus itself, everything is clean as a whistle to be sure, but I thought it was interesting that she found it necessary to grow a little hair back after shaving herself. She always keeps it perfectly trimmed so I am not complaining one bit. I am just curious more than anything about her choice of grooming habits.
Opinions? Explanations?
Jake
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1417543]Here's one for anyone who might think they have anything to add.
I live in Moscow now so most of my "activity" is dating non-pro girls and not so much mongering, although on occasion I will partake in the pleasures of a banya girl or massagista at a bachelor party. But I digress.
I have been dating a Russian woman for several months now. She's in her late 30's but she's in fabulous shape having been a figure skater in her youth. During our first sexual encounter I was not surprised to find that she was completely clean shaven in her pubic regions. However, since that time, she has grown her pubic hair albeit in a very nicely trimmed "pelt" about 3 cm wide and 6 cm long up her tight little belly. Closer to the business end and the anus itself, everything is clean as a whistle to be sure, but I thought it was interesting that she found it necessary to grow a little hair back after shaving herself. She always keeps it perfectly trimmed so I am not complaining one bit. I am just curious more than anything about her choice of grooming habits.
Opinions? Explanations?
Jake[/QUOTE]I think it is a trend throughout Europe. You see it more and more in porn and I have seen it much more often among pros and non-pros alike. Just more fashionable I think. I personally prefer a little landing strip but I am hoping the trend does not move too far toward the hairy side of things. No 70s Bush!
[QUOTE=Jake993;1417543]She always keeps it perfectly trimmed so I am not complaining one bit. I am just curious more than anything about her choice of grooming habits. Opinions? Explanations?[/QUOTE]Interesting. . .
Perhaps you could post a detailed photo of the area in question? It might help us to better understand this intriguing behavior. ;)
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1417543]Here's one for anyone who might think they have anything to add.
I live in Moscow now so most of my "activity" is dating non-pro girls and not so much mongering, although on occasion I will partake in the pleasures of a banya girl or massagista at a bachelor party. But I digress.
I have been dating a Russian woman for several months now. She's in her late 30's but she's in fabulous shape having been a figure skater in her youth. During our first sexual encounter I was not surprised to find that she was completely clean shaven in her pubic regions. However, since that time, she has grown her pubic hair albeit in a very nicely trimmed "pelt" about 3 cm wide and 6 cm long up her tight little belly. Closer to the business end and the anus itself, everything is clean as a whistle to be sure, but I thought it was interesting that she found it necessary to grow a little hair back after shaving herself. She always keeps it perfectly trimmed so I am not complaining one bit. I am just curious more than anything about her choice of grooming habits.
Opinions? Explanations?
Jake[/QUOTE]Jake, I would guess that when she first met you, she felt she should "dress to impress".
Probably she (or most Russian women) assume that clean shaven is the safest default position.
Maybe once she felt more comfortable with you she let it go back to what she prefers?
Who am I to be giving YOU advice, but you might want to think about whether you should exercise control over this?
"I preferred you shaven" or "Make it a heart shape" or whatever you think says "Jake was here"!
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1417543]Here's one for anyone who might think they have anything to add.
I have been dating a Russian woman for several months now. She's in her late 30's but she's in fabulous shape having been a figure skater in her youth. She always keeps it perfectly trimmed so I am not complaining one bit.
Jake[/QUOTE]I'm sure glad you're NOT complaining, considering the muff you're having for dessert so often! :p
My guess is that she's experimenting with you and she is fishing for discussion on what you like. Talk about her pussy over dinner and drinks in a nice restaurant, loudly enough for others to hear but not yelling. Tell her how you'd like her to trim it one way or another and what you're going to do to it in a little while. I'd bet she'll be blowing you on the way home.
Lucky bastard!
The Tanuki
I have a question for those of you that sponsor girls. What is the typical arrangement for paying them? Say you are paying $1000 USD a month. Do you do it start of month, or how? Partial throughout the month? After each meeting?
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1427705]I have a question for those of you that sponsor girls. What is the typical arrangement for paying them? Say you are paying $1000 USD a month. Do you do it start of month, or how? Partial throughout the month? After each meeting?[/QUOTE]It depends. For example, if the money is to pay for rent, then the sponsoring dude might just pay the girl's landlord directly. There is no set protocol. Often it comes as a monthly allowance for shopping or it might be just plain old cash. Each case is different. I had a girlfriend some time ago who had just parted from her room mate and needed help paying the rent. I paid half the rent for a few months and was granted "generous" access to certain favors during that period. But dude, once she got another room mate and I stopped paying, things changed a little.
I have wondered more than once the reason of the existence of a thread called "dating Russian women", since there are not equivalent threads, at least among those I read, european ones.
After being on my famous cruise, I must admit Russia is a world apart. In Moscow and St Pete probably they are more westernwise, many girls speak english or anyway try to help you how they can with directions and easy-to-understand-and-to-solve problems, but out of there they still seem robots, programmed to do something, icy cold, blocked, dormant, frozen, unresponsive, dumb asleep, but still robots, to what I'd define a high level in the scale, while in other ex communist countries they are waking up or already did.
For instance, none of them onboard not only didn't think about asking or getting tips, but didn't even "suggest", I mean doing a service to you and staying there a few seconds to see if you tip. Once I asked for a second ice cream, the waitress went into the kitchen to ask, came back in one minute to say the request had been accepted and recame back seconds later with my ice cream: couldn't she spare one journey?
Ok, now I'll come to what actually "annoyed" me a little: I was a lonely young (youngest after me wasn't less than 60 years old, could pratically be my father) looking westerner, therefore implicitly rich, also passenger of a river cruise, so even richer (actually I'm on the poor side, but they couldn't know, LOL!). How is it possible none of them even slightly thought about trying to "socialize" by her own will with me, or accepting my innocent approaches, not necessarily meant to end up having sex, whether for fun, for a new experience, for a better future or for rounding up their little income? More than once I tried to hook up, especially when they were not on duty, but they were really escaping! Even unfair to a passenger of your ship! The very most of them couldn't speak english, but international language of smiles, likings, to joke let's add love (and being professional mongers let's add banknotes too) , should suffice. Don't be misled by thinking the girls were there to work: even on ferryboats travelling less than 24 hours, passengers and personnel interact, even ending up in a bed, and without the possible incentive of money! Or I can tell you that back in 1995, when a few cuban dancers were allowed to work onboard a western cruise ship, the lines out of their cabins were so long that very soon they were disembarked for perturbating and distracting! And with was a fortune for them in their pockets!
In Yaroslav the tour guide was fucking beautiful (and fucking icy). She informed a staring-at-her-and-not-at-the-church crowd (which was formed by open-mouthed elderly women as well) that she was single. We astonishedly learnt that unfortunately in that city, in the past capital of Russia for a short while, so probably not too "uncivilized" to a westerner, there are more than 2 girls per man. 600 000 inhabitants= more than 200 000 females alone, cut out old ladies and children you still get a fair number, maybe Borderland will travel there, if he hasn't yet.
YummyPL, you are still young, and wealthy, why the hell you want to sponsor a girl? With 1000$ a month you can be a king in many places, including inner Russia! 99% of men wouldn't lay without buying gifts, taking to restaurants and for shopping, etc, we all "sponsor" our girlfriends or wives, but they "earn their wage" by staying with us, even if mostly that can be a bloody annoyment to us, why should you support one away from you which will do whatever she wants, at your shoulders and at your expenses, without "working" for it? P4P makes sense, sponsoring does not! Go to Yaroslav instead! Anyway, that's just my opinion and I respect other ones.
Back to the tour guide, somebody tried twice to positively and nicely joke about her "loneliness" (which she said was due to competition), meaning to highlight her beauty (think of the other 200 000, what will they look like?) , she didn't get the point and at the third one she "made understand" she wasn't having fun! Somebody thought she could be alone because of her character, I joked that if I was such an alien beautiful 30 years old chick I too would be very upset to find myself without a man, but I thought to myself that I'd "find a way". Anyway the very most of girls I came across up there seemed to lack any sense of humour, any responsiveness, any smartness, just robots, whether programmed for setting a table, taking you a drink or telling you about a church, still empty robots.
In conclusion, I think we all agree that a less beautiful girl, wherever she's from, must compensate the gap by having other qualities to attract a man, like being funny, available and open, for instance, while a beautiful one doesn't need to produce any effort, being naturally chased by men. I think I wouldn't even appreciate to spend time other than for sex with what seemed to me to be the typical Russian girl, and this out of the language barrier. Beauty is not the most important quality, especially if you go beyond simple P4P, I reckon most of these Russian absolute stunners are just cold fishes, empty shells to shag and drop.
Just my opinion.
EG
[QUOTE=EastGoing;1428793]I have wondered more than once the reason of the existence of a thread called "dating Russian women", since there are not equivalent threads, at least among those I read, european ones.
Beauty is not the most important quality, especially if you go beyond simple P4P, I reckon most of these Russian absolute stunners are just cold fishes, empty shells to shag and drop.[/QUOTE]EG,
First, thanks for the insight into your experience with the river cruise. I've always wanted to take one of those and I believe you are the first person to ever report on what it's like.
Don't allow yourself to be fooled by appearances. Remember, Russia is a mystery, wrapped in an enigma--or was it a riddle, wrapped in a mystery? Anyway, it can be difficult to understand what's actually happening without some context.
When you are on a cruise like that, you are travelling through country that most иностранцев (foreigners) never see, and more importantly, where most Russians never see foreigners. I think there are very few kinds of employment in Russia where Russians come into close contact with foreign tourists on such a personal level, except maybe for prostitution (or politics). :)
Unlike their counterparts on the Caribbean cruises, who are encourged to be smiley and perky and bubbly, and where customer satisfaction is priority No. 1, I imagine the Russian employees on the cruise ship are on a very tight leash and have strict orders not to fraternize with the guests, or lose their job. So as we say here in America, "It's not personal, it's just business."
You have also confirmed my suspicions about Yaroslavl as a kind of El Dorado of mongering in Russia. Someday I have to get there. One of the best lays I've ever had, anywhere, was a young Tsyganka (gypsy woman) who lived in Yaroslavl and commuted to Moscow. (sigh)
Of course, this is assuming you speak Russian, if you don't, then best to stay in Moscow.
I would encourage you not to give up. Take a few more trips to Russia, learn a little Russian, and something about Russian culture. This is how you will melt the ice queen.
When you are ready, you will be welcomed into the club. It is an old and venerated Gnostic order of Illuminati who have been endowed with the divine understanding of Slavic Femininity. It only operates in the area of Eastern Europe, which is why you won't see any similar threads in other forums.
You will receive your official initiation into the Rite--which involves much singing and chanting, burning of incense, the telling of the anekdoti and dousing you frequently with Vodichki.
Upon immersion in the sacred waters, you will be reborn into a new world where your Gnoetic understanding of the Mystery of Slavic Femininity will be, alternately, both your salvation and your eternal curse.
So, sit back, relax and enjoy the ride. Once you have crossed that boundary, there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
Strav,
Yours is pure poetry, I understand you are really fond of Russia! And you being American it is probably even more remarkable! ;-)
As to me, I've learnt to be much less poetic when it comes to women, now I just want to have sex and go, I decided I don't want to get sentimentally involved anymore with any kind of girl, no matter how nice, intelligent, beautiful or whatever else she might be. I thank our Lord for providing me enough health and expendable money to be able to afford continuous reasonable mongering, whether abroad or at home. I'm writing after having being blown with CIM for 30 euros in car (BTW, you didn't answer my question about minuets in car in Moscow, are they without condom?) , but for obvious reasons I don't post home episodes.
I think that, even if it's obvious to classify a person or a folk according to their sex, nationality, religion and other parameters, each individual has his own character and characteristics, so I find a bit inappropriate to assign special statuses to Russian women (or to whoever else). I understand that the more difficult the target the bigger the satisfaction, but apart the objective superior appearances and features of the average fauna or the appalling alien beauty of some specimens (which, as I posted in Moscow, I'd be ashamed to even only touch, being them "too wonderful" for me no matter how much I pay) , I don't think there can be particular reasons for reputing Russian girls better or more interesting than an ugly mongolian or peruvian girl or than a pretty thai girl or than a black stunner. In Russia they would shower me with vodka, in Japan with sachè or how they call it, and still you might get caught away by japanese culture, for instance.
Still, I respect other opinions and somehow I envy people having passions and chasing them, like can be your determination to explore Russia, to concentrate on it, the lines you wrote are full of passion and I think that if some russian minister read them, he should give you honorary citizenship! (smiley).
For me it was another country to visit, even if special, I admit and remember considering a dream to visit Russia. BTW, as I said months ago when I booked the trip, I'd like to take the Transiberian train someday, so in an undetermined future I should go back. Also, I didn't have time to properly visit Moscow and St Pete (on a normal holiday I wouldn't have suffered and tolerated what the Paulina episode put me through, even ending up being happy of it!) , and I agree that smaller inner cities can be even more interesting from other points of view (but there I would have the overwhelming problem of the language, not enough passion to learn it, I'm too lazy). The bloody cruise (which would deserve some descriptions and comments, but that would be off topic in this forum) was the easiest way for me to have visas, permits, accommodation, assistance, etc, so, until Russians make it easier (and possibly cheaper, since I refuse by principle to pay for a visa and to spend hundreds only for hotels) for bloody foreigners to visit them, I'm afraid for the close future this will be it.
EG, I am 45 years old, good shape for an American my age, very average looking, dress well, and have a pretty good income (although far from wealthy). After reading through the Russian and Ukrainian threads, it is exactly the reports of warmth and passion of Russian women that has caught my interest. I have very little experience with Slavic women. I did some reporting in the Kiev thread. But really, I was amazed at my stay in Kiev.
I met a 26 year old girl with a decent face and an awesome body that told me she loved me on our 3rd date. I have basically spent 15 nights with her in total in 2 trips and communicate with her a few times a week when I am away from her. She has never asked for any money from me. She had sex with me maybe 20 times in those 15 days and is always passionate. This is what she wrote me yesterday:
"I've said many times I was impressed by your way of life and way of thinking. I understand there is a little time for us in your life now. But nothing stays the same. The same river you can not go twice. I love you, my heart is burning, it's not crying, I feel a pleasant languor in the chest. Sometimes I felt you're not completely honest to me, and then my heart compresses convulsively with pain and fear of losing you. But I think we've overcome this difficult stage already. I'm sick of doubt, I need to make sense, I wish to surrender to you."
I mean really? I can't even imagine a young western girl writing that to me. I don't think it is even possible for an average looking 45 year old with average game to find someone like this outside the Slavic world. I am looking forward to getting to Moscow. I have been communicating with lots of girls on a dating site. Many of them seem to burn with the same type of passion. I don't believe I will find ice queens.
[QUOTE=EastGoing;1429649]BTW, you didn't answer my question about minuets in car in Moscow, are they without condom?[/QUOTE]EG,
Message received and understood. :)
No worries about the минет в машине. The Russkaya Federatsya has yet to take an official position on blow-jobs in cars. They are too busy dealing with alchoholism, smoking, gambling and political dissent. I think the field in this regard is pretty much wide open.
It's basically up to you and the girl. Just say, "Bez rezinkii", it means, "without a condom". She will either say "Da" or "Nyet", and her answer may be influenced by how much dyengi you are offering.
For myself, I'm not sure I would want any uncovered services from a girl I picked up on a street corner, anywhere. But, as they say, "Different strokes for different folks." If you are concerned about the long term consequences of that kind of activity, you might want to double check with Michael Douglas. :o
счастливо
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1429875]I don't believe I will find ice queens.[/QUOTE]There are ice queens in eastern Europe. Thawing them out is half the fun!
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1429908]There are ice queens in eastern Europe. Thawing them out is half the fun![/QUOTE]No doubt but my goal for this trip is getting them to a low simmer before arriving. I have 8 days and about a dozen "freebies" that want to meet me. Now the challenge is working out a schedule where the best prospects get the best time sots to optimize the possibility of getting that 2nd and 3rd date. Of course, in Kiev I gave up quickly and devoted my time to mostly one girl (the one mentioned below). It is my goal to not let that happen again but who knows what magic these girls will have with me.
This is Svetlana's response to my formal request for a date from her for my first night there: "О, Дэвид, вы знаете когда приглашать женщину чтобы она не смогла отказать вам. Конечно, Я отложу всю свою работу и вечер посвящу тебе."
Yummy,
It's always best to translate foreign text into English for the benefit of our readers, wouldn't want anyone to think this is an international sex guide...
[i]О, Дэвид, вы знаете когда приглашать женщину чтобы она не смогла отказать вам. Конечно, Я отложу всю свою работу и вечер посвящу тебе.[/i]
"Oh, David, you know when to invite the woman so that she cannot refuse you. Of course, I will set aside all my work and devote the evening to you."
Just curious, where are you meeting these women, if you are not in Russia? Obviously on the internet, but where?
Strav,
Thanks for answering, I understand you don't practice BJ in car, and you are not sure about Moscow's related matters, I thought you knew all details. It was just my curiosity, nothing else, (smiley). All I know about Michael Douglas is that he was sex-dependant, like me, the difference is that he went to private clinic to heal with his millions, I carry on mongering with my little money (in fact I would like to have much more sex) and don't even think about quitting or healing! (smiley).
Just a couple of observations: about gambling, as far as I know casinos have been shut down quite some time ago; about the BBBJ from a SW I don't think there is a scientific medical reason for it to be more dangerous than the one given by an "indoor" girl, I would agree on concerns involving her pussy, like DATY, but I honestly can't find that difference for blowjobs. Anyone feel free to open my eyes, as I said my mongering at home is based on BBBJ in car, when I finish this post I'll go for it (big grin)
YummyPL,
I speak for my experiences and opinions, I don't mean to teach or preach anything to anyone, I just gladly share what I think and what I "achieve on the field", which is the main purpose of this forum. I sincerely wish you (and everybody else) all the best, regardless of number of girls and their nationality. If you give me permission, I would observe that it could be considered too fast to declare love to a wealthy average looking foreigner 19 years older staying a couple of weeks on the 3rd date by a local stunner, no matter under what circumstances you met, was it for work, in a club, in a park. How did you manage to conquer her tender heart? Maybe you haven't forked out straight cash (yet) , but I wonder if by chance you took her to shopping or in good restaurants, or maybe you bought her gifts, somehow you must have impressed her (probably in a way that none of her ukrainian 26 year old neighbours and fellas inexplicably managed to do). If nothing of this has happened yet, which I strongly doubt, don't worry, it soon will. As I observed when talking about my cruise, it shouldn't be difficult for an average local girl to "feel some attraction" towards a foreigner. The only status of foreigner qualifies anyone as a "better party", a "good chance". And this works everywhere out of western Europe, north America and few other countries, Japan, Australia, etc. So, if you subscribe to dating forums in second and third world countries, you're going to be submerged by "offers","disinterested" proposals of "friendship", agreements to meet up and declarations of love, even if you are not wealthy (and you are, so you shouldn't struggle also in richer countries). Maybe you can't imagine better words out of the slavic world because you haven't tried elsewhere, we are not talking about pure beauty, we are talking about pure "feelings", that also a fat Magadascarian or short Ecuadorian may feel. Remember, girls sit on their luck, men live for their hormones-stormed self-destruction, it's never you using women, it's always women using you.
As to the words no western girl ever wrote to you, and never would, but I doubt (you just have to show off more money, while in 2nd and 3rd world countries your "status of foreigner" guarantees for you) , if you pay my expenses for a trip to wherever (like your ukrainian girlfriend, I don't want money) , say Russia, I'll write to you words that will turn you into a gay!
Respectfully and friendly yours,
EG
[QUOTE=EastGoing;1429961]Remember, girls sit on their luck, men live for their hormones-stormed self-destruction, it's never you using women, it's always women using you.[/QUOTE]Words to remember!
ED,
It's true, the Russkaya Federatsya banned [b]legal[/b] Gambling several years ago. Now they just have to deal with the [b]illegal[/b] Gambling.
I mention Michael Douglas because he just announced today his opinion that his throat cancer was caused by HPV, most likely contracted through DATY, yes, but it seems to me it's a little like hoof and mouth--it's not a long way from the hoof to the mouth.
Gambling isn't illegal in Russia; it's restricted to 4 regional areas. This was done in 2009. And despite this, gambling is of epidemic proportions in all areas of Russia, just like STDs (particularly chlamydia, which is rampant, but pretty much all STDs, including AIDS). If you have unprotected sex with a girl who meets foreign men / Russian men for money, count on getting an STD (chlamydia for sure). Get a thorough delousing when you return home (most men never even realize they have chlamydia and its not dangerous to us usually, but you will be a carrier). Moscow also recently tried to curtail drinking (by limiting the hours shops can sell liquor) and is now taking on smoking (myth of Sisyphus comes to mind). The selling of hard liquor after 11 (or 12 I forget) created an underground industry. Any Russian worth her or his liver knows at least a few numbers of people who they can call for liquor delivery after hours. The liquor is delivered to your doorstep in the trunk of a car and many times the booze is duty free booze someone has bought at the airport (duty free stamp on bottle). Of course, there's a hefty markup for the service.
In fact, one of the biggest differences between Russia and the West is the boozing. Pretty much any weekend you will find the streets populated by drunk Russians (and I mean staggering, falling down, throwing up on the street Russians, male and female). It's epidemic on holidays and football game days. And on the dating Russian women front, this can be an issue: the girl you meet might very well smoke and drink, both excessively, and at the very least, if you connect with a beautiful Russian smoker, you will find yourself combating the smell of cigarettes lingering in your nostrils, hair, clothes, etc long after you have parted (won't even get into the kissing issue or the sleeping next to a girl who hasn't washed her cigarette smelling hair).
It's Darwinian: Russian women are naturally adapted to be beautiful, because they smell of cigarettes and are infested with microbes. .
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1429998]ED,
It's true, the Russkaya Federatsya banned [b]legal[/b] Gambling several years ago. Now they just have to deal with the [b]illegal[/b] Gambling.
[QUOTE=Skwiskwis;1430139]Gambling isn't illegal in Russia; it's restricted to 4 regional areas.[/QUOTE]But then any gambling activity that takes place outside the designated areas is, by definition, illegal.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1429908]There are ice queens in eastern Europe. Thawing them out is half the fun![/QUOTE]Gentlemen,
Thank you for a most entertaining thread. I just renewed the lease on my apartment in Moscow for the 2nd time taking me into my 3rd year living in Moscow. Over the past two years I have learned a great deal about Russian women. In the workplace, socially, dating and simple day to day interaction on the streets and public places. I can say with 99% confidence that the "Ice Queen" facade in Russian (Slavic) women is a defense mechanism.
I think back to one of my first trips to Moscow in June of 2005. Sitting with friends on the terrace at Hard Rock Cafe. There at a table sat this beautiful creature with long silky hair, pale blue eyes and a demeanor that said,"Don't Fuck With Me". She was cold the the waiter, cold to me when I asked to borrow the salt shaker from her table and seemed generally angry at the world. When a very good looking guy came over and offered to buy her a drink she basically told him to screw off. But when her girlfriend approached and sat down to join her, the Ice Queen's face lit up like the sun. It was was the most amazing transformation I had ever seen. A while later, two more girls joined them and now it was a regular little "hen party". A few hours later, both tables joined and we were all drinking and laughing (much to my surprise almost all of the girls spoke some English). Even the Ice Queen let me chat her up and we enjoyed a nice social evening. While I did NOT fuck her, I felt like I had crossed a bridge with her. I will never forget this encounter.
It struck me that these girls (like many beautiful women) need to keep up a strong barrier. Being polite and saying,"No thank you" is not enough in Russia. Russian men do not respect the word "no" and generally charge ahead on the slightest encouragement. For Western guys, this can be very intimidating. But Ice Queens are all just waiting to melt as soon as they feel comfortable and unthreatened. True, there are some who have been "around the block" (like my assistant) and are hardened to men in general due to a bad experience, but most Ice Queens just are keeping up a strong face to ward off unwanted advances from over aggressive fellas.
In the immortal words of Cyndi Lauper,"Girls Just want to Have Fun".
[QUOTE=Jake993;1430489]While I did NOT fuck her, I felt like I had crossed a bridge with her. I will never forget this encounter.[/QUOTE]In it's own way, this is even more of a conquest than the sex would have been.
Do you think she "made" you as a Westerner from that first request for the salt shaker? Do you think the fact that you are not the typical Moscow muzhik (I'm assuming) helped her to lower her shields?
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1430676]In it's own way, this is even more of a conquest than the sex would have been.
Do you think she "made" you as a Westerner from that first request for the salt shaker? Do you think the fact that you are not the typical Moscow muzhik (I'm assuming) helped her to lower her shields?[/QUOTE]Oh yeah. In 2005 I could barely say "spaseeba".
[quote=eastgoing;1429961]as to the words no western girl ever wrote to you, and never would, but i doubt (you just have to show off more money, while in 2nd and 3rd world countries your "status of foreigner" guarantees for you) , if you pay my expenses for a trip to wherever (like your ukrainian girlfriend, i don't want money) , say russia, i'll write to you words that will turn you into a gay![/quote]eg,
your words are no doubt mostly true. i think they are words of wisdom and did not come off as preachy to me. i enjoy and appreciate your posts. but as some of our friends have posted in the past, it is more than just money. as far as my personal wealth, while i am far from wealth by western standards, and certainly even moscow standards, i do pretty well money-wise for ukraine.
but the girl that i speak of is actually pretty special. if she does not really love me, she thinks that she does. i have been to the philippines, thailand, dr, and a few other places where what you say is certainly true. i also date a lot of 'freebies' that take some maintenance (although none are high maintenance). i am pretty good at judging women.
this girl i speak of is a leftist semi-buddhist marxist. in 12 days that included a trip to odessa from kiev, i spent a total of $800 usd including all food, lodging, and accommodations, everything. i have spent $800 in one night before with other girls. 5 days of the trip i stayed in her apartment.
as some of our esteem friends on these threads have mentioned, there are things that can attract more than wealth. perhaps excitement, being treated well, respect, culture, all play into it. this girl has had a pretty shitty life with guys. she was raped on the streets by 2 guys a few years ago and has had 6 abortions. maybe she is 'damaged goods' but she really is extraordinary and you would never know that she had such a past. further, she wants me to quit my job and move to india with her where we can open a small hotel by the sea and live off my military pension. this girl is not digging for gold.
besides, i did not say she was a stunner. very average face with an excellent athletic body. if i was not hard hearted, i might just fall in love myself.
also, i am a good writer. it helps to get them going before meeting them.
[quote=yummypl; 1431031]eg,
as some of our esteem friends on these threads have mentioned, there are things that can attract more than wealth. perhaps excitement, being treated well, respect, culture, all play into it. this girl has had a pretty shitty life with guys. she was raped on the streets by 2 guys a few years ago and has had 6 abortions. maybe she is 'damaged goods' but she really is extraordinary and you would never know that she had such a past. further, she wants me to quit my job and move to india with her where we can open a small hotel by the sea and live off my military pension. this girl is not digging for gold.[/quote]ypl.
sounds like same girl you were talking about when we met up in kiev. salt of the earth type for sure.
one thing i do now when it comes to planning any of type of vacation with a russian / ukrainian girl is i tell them up front she pay for her own airline ticket and personal shopping and i will take of the other expenses. if she has a decent job and really into you enough she will do it. there is certain class of girls in the bigger cities with a decent job and are well travelled. i'm suppose to meet a 28 year old girl from moscow in new york in sept. she is it project manager with her own car and apartment. i got another one who we thinking about meeting up in hong kong too. you really have to hunt for these types but these are out there.
the only time i'm tempted to deviate from she paying her own way is she is really young and hot )))
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1429247]You have also confirmed my suspicions about Yaroslavl as a kind of El Dorado of mongering in Russia. Someday I have to get there. One of the best lays I've ever had, anywhere, was a young Tsyganka (gypsy woman) who lived in Yaroslavl and commuted to Moscow. (sigh)[/QUOTE][QUOTE]We astonishedly learnt that unfortunately in that city, in the past capital of Russia for a short while, so probably not too "uncivilized" to a westerner, there are more than 2 girls per man. 600 000 inhabitants= more than 200 000 females alone, cut out old ladies and children you still get a fair number, maybe Borderland will travel there, if he hasn't yet.[/QUOTE]Hi Strav,
You'd like Yaroslavl, I'm sure, as it's quite a cosmopolitan and pleasant place by the standards of provincial Russia.
However, I'm not too sure about those stats, as given by EG.
That sounds more like 'nearby' Ivanovo than Yaroslavl...
Anyone else venture an opinion?
[QUOTE=YummyPL; 1431031]
But the girl that I speak of is actually pretty special. If she does not really love me, she thinks that she does.[/QUOTE]I've fallen in love really a few times, amazingly 4 girls were from 4 different continents. All of them were special in their own way, perhaps because they were staying with me? Were they "special" to my eyes because I was fond of them, while they were actually nothing special, or just special cheats, good at taking advantage of other people's feelings and weaknesses? The last one was even "unique", in fact my decision of just "paying and leaving" is due to the sum of this consideration plus "being fed up", not trust anymore, search of peace of mind and heart,"self defense", etc. All the times I came out brokenhearted, and a couple of times also "brokenwalleted". Not lots of money, because I don't have and never had lots of money, but still all or nearly all I had. The brazilian one used to say "love ends when money ends", think how stupid one must be to fall and stay in love with such a "person", but when you are fond of someone you really become blind and superstupid.
I'm not going to post anymore about this kind of topic since, again, I don't mean to teach or preach anything to anyone, and if I carried on it would like I want to. I wrote this last one just to explain my points of view and resolutions.
Happy mongering (definitely the safest and best option) to all!
[QUOTE=Gergiev; 1431600]However, I'm not too sure about those stats, as given by EG.
That sounds more like 'nearby' Ivanovo than Yaroslavl.[/QUOTE]I'm not sure either, it's just what the guide said, I don't have the slightest clue, I can only say that I noticed in all places, apart Moscow and Pete, that everywhere seemed to be a desert, empty parks, empty roads, empty big squares, mornings and afternoons, with a nice weather, where are the people, what do they do?
[QUOTE=Gergiev;1431600]That sounds more like 'nearby' Ivanovo than Yaroslavl...[/QUOTE]G,
There was a girl who worked at Fantasys several years ago who was from Ivanovo. She was absolutely gorgeous, IMHO. Listening to her story, it seems to confirm what EG said about Yaroslavl--not enough available men and too much competition between the women. So she moved to the big city, hoping to find a good job, and ended up at Fantasys. She didn't think she was anything special, just sort of average, as far as looks are concerned. So, if she was average, I couldn't help but wonder: what do the best Ivanovo has to offer look like?
But it's difficult to say if she was giving me an objective appraisal. Many times, the more beautiful a woman is, the more insecure she will be about her looks. It's difficult to believe she was just average.
But, yes, if you scratch most of working girls in Moscow, you will find someone who came from somewhere else and the cities within a day's train ride from Moscow are typically the feeder markets.
Ivanovo is on the list, as well as Yaroslavl. But then I will see your Ivanovo, and raise you Rybinsk. The 2nd largest city in the Yaroslavl oblast and, most likely the feeder market for Yaroslavl.
So many cities, so little time...
So, let's plan for a trip. We can meet at the Yaroslavskii Vokzal. We should be able to pick up a couple bottles of vodichki, some chyorni xleb and kolbasa, maybe one of those big bottles of agurtsii or pomodori. And some cigarettes, not because I smoke, but because the dyevchyonki are always asking for cigarettes. We'll take the slow train, because the train ride itself is half the fun, and make a grand tour of the provinces.
Though, I definitely want to stop at Rybinsk. It could be productive, or we could just spend the night listening to the crickets. But then, I think I might actually enjoy a night spent listing to the crickets.
до встречи
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1427705]I have a question for those of you that sponsor girls. What is the typical arrangement for paying them? Say you are paying $1000 USD a month. Do you do it start of month, or how? Partial throughout the month? After each meeting?[/QUOTE]I agree with Jake in that there is no typical arrangement.
Some of the things to consider are : How often are you going to meet, what you are paying for (straight service or incentive based) , how much you are paying, whether it is purely cash-based or are you paying for something else (like Jake's rent example).
Just work it out with the girl. Unlikely you are going to start sponsoring her before meeting, so just another thing to negotiate with her.
Make sure you are quite clear in what the arrangement is all about. Your expectations and hers.
I wrote a post a few years back with some advice for sponsoring. I've been sponsoring Leila for a bit over five years, she is still as hot as she was back in '08. I now pay her through bank transfer, but she's the only one who I have done that for.
Here's the link:
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?3159-Prices&p=1133165#post1133165[/url]
Good luck with it.
Cheers,
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1431820]
Ivanovo is on the list.
So, let's plan for a trip. We can meet at the Yaroslavskii Vokzal. We'll take the slow train, because the train ride itself is half the fun, and make a grand tour of the provinces.
We could just spend the night listening to the crickets. But then, I think I might actually enjoy a night spent listing to the crickets.[/QUOTE]
Oh god, please don't take me back to Ivanovo - once was enough!
But don't worry about taking a 'slow train' - there is no other kind...
Actually, just thinking about it, I don't think it can be done by train.
We'll need to get off at Kostroma and take the 'bus' to Ivanovo.
Which is an experience you'll never forget, riding flat-out in a ramshackle conveyance that literally jumps the tar joinings on the road, every 100 meters or so.
Yep, Strav, we'll need plenty of the old Zim spirit when those other spirits of yours run out - like the great man once sang...
"Flowers on the hillside, bloomin' crazy.
Crickets talkin' back and forth in rhyme.
Blue river runnin' slow and lazy.
I could stay with you forever and never realize the time."
Somebody organize a ride on the transiberian train, obviously hopping on and off at train stations on the way (like Novosibirsk, I don't even know where Ivanovo is, but since I don't speak Russian I can't go alone) for a few days. Next year, so there is time to prepare the trip (and save money, LOL!).
As of now, a word of "encouragement" to Yummy, who crossed the frontiers of the german threads to greet me and is now "battling" in Moscow: come on mate, the Russian section of the forum is with you! ;-)
[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1434336]Somebody organize a ride on the transiberian train, obviously hopping on and off at train stations on the way (like Novosibirsk, I don't even know where Ivanovo is, but since I don't speak Russian I can't go alone) for a few days. Next year, so there is time to prepare the trip (and save money, LOL!).
As of now, a word of "encouragement" to Yummy, who crossed the frontiers of the german threads to greet me and is now "battling" in Moscow: come on mate, the Russian section of the forum is with you! .[/QUOTE]Go, Yummy go!
[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1434336]Somebody organize a ride on the transiberian train, obviously hopping on and off at train stations on the way (like Novosibirsk, I don't even know where Ivanovo is, but since I don't speak Russian I can't go alone) for a few days. Next year, so there is time to prepare the trip (and save money, LOL!).
As of now, a word of "encouragement" to Yummy, who crossed the frontiers of the german threads to greet me and is now "battling" in Moscow: come on mate, the Russian section of the forum is with you! .[/QUOTE]This is like old threads week!
I can thoroughly recommend the train. Great way to travel across or around Russia. Here's a link to my trans-Siberian journey to give an idea what is possible. I recall someone suggested at the time that there was an easier way to buy tickets to get on and off the train. My way worked OK:
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?772-Other-Areas&p=1069438#post1069438[/url]
I didn't quite do it with a mongering partner but that would be great fun too!
Cheers
Dogger,
Absolutely fantastic! You should have written a book, made a sort of film coverage, a movie, out of it, you should have hired also a (she) cameraman! Actually your partner probably was more useful and gave you more satisfaction than a fellow monger, LOL!
You said you took about one year to plan it, well, we can start now for next summer, obviously also the best time of the year. If we can involve Strav, Prosal and other Russian speaking fellas things will be much easier. Kurenda's info about the correct train ticket is a good starting point, even if probably some things might have changed so far, but that should in better.
Jokes and enthusiasm apart, it's obviously quite difficult to organize such a thing, especially if possibilities (time, money, language, etc.) are not big, actually a huge handicap to the mission, and if this works for a single person, imagine for 2 or more.
Anyway some day somehow I'll take that train and I'll be happy just for having taken it, even if the achievements will surely be much lower than yours, since it will be a pure adventure, if I'm alone I'll not have escort, translator, mamba meetings, etc.
Again, congratulations for your exploit.
EG
[QUOTE=Gergiev;1434330]Oh god, please don't take me back to Ivanovo - once was enough![/QUOTE]G,
That's me--I wait only for my bootheels to be wanderin'...
But I thought you wanted to go back to Ivanovo? We can always skip it, if you've had enough. And I think you're right, looking at the map, there probably is no direct rail link from Yaroslavl to Ivanovo. Although I have to say, that ride on the avtoboos sounds intriguing. :)
Seems to me there must be some kind of skoro poezd from Moscow to Yaroslavl, have to check the train schedules.
I've heard it said, among Russians, that,"Moscow is not in Russia". Doesn't make sense at first, but if you think about it, it's very true. Most of the guys in this forum never get beyond the Boulevard Ring. Some may make it beyond the Garden Ring and only the hardiest of Moscow mongers get beyond MKAD. Even then, it's a different world out there. It would be interesting to take a trip outside of Moscow and see what the real Russia is like.
So what is so bad about Ivanovo?
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1436421]So what is so bad about Ivanovo?[/QUOTE]
Absolutely nothing, if you don't mind living in a city of half a million people where every street looks like this (with apologies to Barba!) -
But y'know, actually, it's not really too bad.
There's a lot of fun to be had in these places if you just go there with an open mind - better known as the Dogger862 approach!
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1434681]I've heard it said, among Russians, that,"Moscow is not in Russia". Doesn't make sense at first, but if you think about it, it's very true. Most of the guys in this forum never get beyond the Boulevard Ring. Some may make it beyond the Garden Ring and only the hardiest of Moscow mongers get beyond MKAD. Even then, it's a different world out there. It would be interesting to take a trip outside of Moscow and see what the real Russia is like.[/QUOTE]Strav, I think you'd love it out there.
There's an old Russian saying that goes something like - "to know a country you have to disappear into it".
It's not just the guys in this forum who don't get out there as a lot of Russians never get beyond the 2 big cities and a few other obvious outposts like the Golden Ring, Veliky Novgorod and Kiev when it was a big university city in the old FSU.
As an outsider, I've blundered my way around Moscow, St P, Veliky Novgorod, Kronstadt, Pskov, Vladimir, Suzdal, Ivanovo, Kostroma, Yaroslavl, Rostov Veliky, Pereslavl-Zalessky and Sergiev Posad in my time, drank my fill, chased the local ladies and made a fool of myself in many - or indeed all - of these locations - but all in the very best possible taste, of course!
After all, you don't think the legendary Bez Bezarra was merely 'Pledging His Time' in all these places, do you??? :)
Right on. Ivanovo goes from ugly to worse.
So guys, I took some good advice here and was well worth it. Maybe even too good as the first girl I was 'dating' sees me as the perfect husband and father to her children. Oh my, I got myself into it here. The only problem is that it's true, Moscow and St Petersburg are not the real Russia. Outside the Garden Ring the women are incredibly serious and this particular one basically wants commitment to marriage before even a simple kiss. Even after 2 or 3 dates with many confident attempts to get her inside my apartment, or a kiss don't get me anywhere. But she keeps a very close watch on me, checking whether I sign into mamba and getting into many questions about why I'm out having some drinks with Russian men (somehow she doesn't believe Russian men will want to drink with a foreigner). Unfortunately for me I not enough of a bastard to lead her down this path just for me to get my rocks off. Actually, maybe she isn't good enough looking for me to live with myself doing it, I think I would sell my soul (whats left anyway) if she was 9/10. Anyway, I cut this one loose. I informed her I don't want to disappoint her and we should just be friends as I have a few other bites on Mamba.
Things to note may be, apparently studying English is incredibly popular out in the Russian provinces. I sat down to drinks with 2 Russian men and one stunner of a girl who kept looking at me (pratically with her mouth open salivating) she could understand me but not speak English. Mamba is a bad place to find them, there may be only a few educated enough, intelligent enough and speak enough English to be worth the time. It is a lot of work to pin point these ones. There is another service which would suit younger men, but I won't mention this here. Possibly another time when I'm gone from the area.
The advice about taking the lead, paying for the check etc. It is the key, do not even consider the discussion that the check is split. Just take the check and pay without even flinching. I think this makes a Russian woman incredibly interested because even though they think the western man is sensitive, and it's important to be also a man, giving them this side is the icing on the cake for them. They think Russian men are angry, unhappy, insensitive.
More to come
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1441392]They think Russian men are angry, unhappy, insensitive.[/QUOTE]That's only because it's true!
So I thought I ditched the 1st girl. This is not specific to Russian women, but if the guy tells them "They just want to be friends" it makes them even more curious. She was very intrigued asking questions via sms about if I have any chance or have found any other cute English speaking girls. Well it seems I've hit the jackpot today. In my pre-organization on mamba I even sent copy / paste introduction messages to girls without pictures. One interested me because she listed English. 50 kg and as far as I can remember 24 year old. I totally forgot about this one and it got lost in the many messages but she started messaging me again. Via sms I asked for a photo and bang, oh my lord have I found a hottie. I'm glad I had a warm up with the first girl in terms of dating Russian women, because now I'm onto the main course.
I will take a temporary break from the updates. All I have to say is that this thread is the best thing someone can read before entering Russia. If one has a little game and is brave, but switches it on in this country like they have nothing to lose they will be rewarded.
One thing which I didn't read that is worth adding, if one asks a Russian girl back to their apartment, regardless of how innocent this is. It is taken as meaning to fuck no matter what the circumstances. This is good to know because if the offer is ever taken up, it means that one needs to be ready and turn that game one again.
So I have a question for the experienced of Russia. Have you ever heard of Russian girls lying about their age. In the case saying they are older than they are? E. G. I have this one who claims that she is 25. Somewhat believable expect for such a young looking face. Something is just not quite sitting right. She has a model like stature. 179 cm tall. 50 kg, therefore long skinny legs, arms and tiny breasts. I would rate 8. 5/10 normally and 9/10 if dolled up. It's possible she doesn't get that much attention from men here even though she is very beautiful. The type of girl you see and you think would be great to have in bed, but once there isn't quite the same as a girl with killer curves. Looking at her hands and feet I believe 25 year old (but this could be due to the brutal Russian winters) , I'm not sure if that makes sense but they simply look older than say an 18 year old. But her face just looks too young, and still a few traces of acne though nothing much to notice. I'm seriously thinking 19 or 20 year old. Possibly just looking for a bit of fun with a foreign man, which I may fit in this role. I'm younger than probably most the men on this site and so assume that we wouldn't look like a couple with a large age difference walking on the street if she really was 25.
I have a few ideas about what is going on: perhaps I'm completely wrong, she really is 25.
Otherwise:
1: She is a horny university student looking for a foreign man to spend the summer with for sheer pleasure. Likes walking around with a handsome (or so I've been described) man simply to feel special, or competitively better than other women. When I'm dressed up smart I get many women noticeably checking me out, I know from the past women notice this and it either annoys them or it makes them feel good as they have a man who attracts attention from women. Considering the other 26 year old I've met, I sense a great difference in maturity. Though this could just be individual.
2: I'm horrified by this option but, younger than 18 and watches too much porn. I really don't put her as being under 18 and this would be a big surprise. She can at least hold a reasonable coversation and appears to be educated at university level. I think her English would probably be better if she was younger.
3: A scammer of some description. This also doesn't quite fit. She hasn't been wanting any expensive dinners, drinks etc, never discusses money, seems to have no problem really trying hard to pay for herself (strange, maybe been reading about behavior of Western men). She seemed quite defensive at first really questioning me if I was married, had children before it got more serious. Actually, seems to want nothing more than a man to hold her on the park bench, hand her hand and walk with her.
Some other things which get me a little curious. While waiting for the bus, I was holding her intimately which was all fine with many people around. Actually it was getting her very excited. Until someone came to the bus stop who she said was her "dance teacher" who was male. Even though she didn't want to separate from me holding her, shortly after she decided to take a taxi instead saying it was too late for the bus (which had already taken quite some time). Walked away from the bus stop trying to find a taxi, there were none around so she called one. It seemed like she was really getting a taxi as she saw one, and was thinking it was for her but it wasn't. The taxi which finally came didn't look like a taxi at all, looked like a friends car even though she got into the back seat and was not too comfortable with kissing goodnight.
Didn't post a photo on Mamba, she said she would have too many men writing to her. This is reasonably understandable but this also makes me suspect she could be younger than what she says and doesn't want someone she knows to see her. I wrote to her firstly, got a response but I never wrote back because I must have forgotten. Then a few weeks later she pursued me by writing back. This is very rare behavior I think from Russian women.
She is very beautiful but very insecure, insecurity like that of an highly intelligent 18 or 19 year old, who has simply been too intelligent for boys her age and thinks that she isn't special because she doesn't get their attention.
Clearly watches too much porn. This is will not elaborate on, maybe some other time.
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma; 1441392]Things to note may be, apparently studying English is incredibly popular out in the Russian provinces. I sat down to drinks with 2 Russian men and one stunner of a girl who kept looking at me (pratically with her mouth open salivating) she could understand me but not speak English.
The advice about taking the lead, paying for the check etc. It is the key, do not even consider the discussion that the check is split. Just take the check and pay without even flinching. I think this makes a Russian woman incredibly interested because even though they think the western man is sensitive, and it's important to be also a man, giving them this side is the icing on the cake for them. They think Russian men are angry, unhappy, insensitive.
One thing which I didn't read that is worth adding, if one asks a Russian girl back to their apartment, regardless of how innocent this is. It is taken as meaning to fuck no matter what the circumstances. This is good to know because if the offer is ever taken up, it means that one needs to be ready and turn that game one again.
If one has a little game and is brave, but switches it on in this country like they have nothing to lose they will be rewarded.[/QUOTE]Well - you're certainly learning, David!
Lots of good and accurate observations there.
I'm old enough to remember what life was like decades ago and that's kinda the way it is in Russia.
The women there are like Western women of the 60s and 70s, over and under-layed with Russian culture and soul.
There can still be a little bit of 'White God Factor' with some of these provincial girls when they meet with Western, English-speaking men.
You have to balance that with the latent xenophobia of the occasional male counterpart, who, in a lot of cases will never have met anyone from the West, and will not appreciate the effect you are having on the female who has turned down the alcoholic advances of himself and his mates, perhaps.
So, enjoy yourself by all means, but just keep your wits about you, as well, and all will be fine...
DVS,
Not sure what your concern is. All women lie about their age, Russians included, but usually to appear younger, not older. Are you concerned that she is under-age?
If this is true, then maybe it is important for her to impress you with her age and maturity.
Sounds like her figure is not so much that of a model, as it is of a dancer.
She is obviously concerned about being recognized, for some reason.
As Gergiev says, enjoy yourself, but be careful and keep your wits about you.
A woman who watches too much porn... now there's a novel concept!
i was a bit paranoid firstly for the **** thing and about it being simply too easy, but everything seems to be ok. i was just curious if anyone had heard before of **** girls pretending to be older here. it can happen elsewhere. but there is no chance she is under 18, i think saying 25 would be too excessive for a 17 year old. realistically they would say just over age like 18 or 19.
your not wrong there strav, you obviously know women, dancer is a much better description.
also, too much porn. i'm not sure about too much but enough. i've seen my fair share of internet porn and at least know the difference between what happens in a porn movie and what generally happens in real life, (not p4p). but when you feel like your in a porn movie because the girl (not a pro) is acting like a porn star is an interesting experience. definitely here if girl agrees to enter your apartment there is little doubt that you will be fucking very shortly. nice afternoon of fucking 3 times, came first after a good session but was still hard and she was still keen so whacked on another condom and went for it until a second orgasm. after a shower and about 15 mins recup was back at it for even longer and she wanted to finish me off bbbj and to my surprise tried to cum shot / facial herself and spat out some saliva at the same time (i don't think i got cum in her mouth). i wasn't really expecting this, on my back, and wasn't aiming at her face and i surprisingly still had a lot of juice in the tank. so it wasn't a successful cumshot, but she still gave it an attempt, only seeing this in porn a lot could make her think this is the thing to do (or ex-man who requested porn-like behavior). so she quite enjoyed it and after was looking at, caressing my dick saying "i really like this". i'd say all over experience and girl 9/10. i will be seeing her again very shortly.
i like the russian women!
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1443303]I like the Russian women![/QUOTE]Sounds like you grabbed the brass ring in this one: 19 year old babe, with a dancer's body and fucks like a porn star.
Careful of the dancers, I'm not saying she's going to pull a Black Swan on you, but they can be temperamental and high-strung.[/QUOTE]
"Grabbed the brass ring", well that is an expression I have never heard and needed to look up, but a very nice one.
I got together again with the 25? Year old for dinner and a walk at the end of the weekend. I learn quickly and an invitation of returning to my apartment is not accepted unless there is some sort of false context to coming. E. G. Looking at some photos, really any excuse will do so long as there is an attempt. She's not interested in actually looking at these it seems. Had another nice session fucking like crazy for a long session and having her finish me off again BBBJ and she seems to love cum, just not yet in her mouth. Shortly after she was saying she needed to be getting home but she couldn't get herself out the door as she was too attached to me, actually it seems she likes rubbing her pussy on me. Something I've never experienced before. I'm convinced she enjoys porn and masturbating. Eventually I just carried her back to the bed and she was keen for round 2 but fucking with clothes still on and panties pulled to the side, no time to remove them. After this walked her home which was a long long walk of at least 45 mins but she is just so keen to have a man in her life it seems.
Meeting again I was somewhat skeptical on her age but she was showing me her vk profile and while it doesn't list an age, everything regarding her story seems to fit in place and would be hard to keep going through with if young. I will call her girl #2.
Girl #1 I ditched at the end of the weekend. Beautiful, high income, large brown eyes, nice tits, curvy body and arse. I had a few interesting dates with her and I was convinced I was going to end it in person before I spent the day with her but just couldn't bring myself to it with her all dolled up and wanting to be holding the magnificent arse she has. But at the end of the day tried to get a kiss and it was terrible and she is simply costing too much to date without any intimacy or affection. Gave her the flick via email. She was also super aggressive about me surfing mamba while still 'dating'.
Girl #2 also had been keeping a watch over me on Mamba and did question me why I've still be logging in. I've given Mamba a small break for now as she is keeping me well drained of energy.
So anyway this weekend I will be venturing off to another city for a bit of adventure. Larger more touristic city which should provide some possibility of picking up in a club, bar scene if I can play the game right.
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1444087]"Grabbed the brass ring", well that is an expression I have never heard and needed to look up, but a very nice one.[/QUOTE]The Brass Ring is a game you play while riding a carousel. I think it may be a uniquely American custom, not sure if the carousels in Europe have them, but in the U.S. there is a long dispenser that extends out towards the riders on the carousel. There are rings inside the dispenser and they are just small enough and positioned far enough away from the riders that it takes some skill to grab one of the rings with your finger as you go flying by. But if you succede, you get a prize.
Sounds like you won. :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass_ring
Thanks for the reports, it's good to have a different perspective. Can you tell us what city you will be visiting next?
My Moscovite girlfriend has been sent by her company to open a new branch in Ivanovo.
She says it is a beautiful but boring place.
In Russia, Ivanovo is called "the city of brides" because many women work in the textile industry and they make perfect brides: beautiful and not too demanding.
Well, my moscovite girlfriend is beautiful, but demanding. .
She wants me to visit there. No flights. 300km with bad roads. Best option is 5 hours by train!
Kind regards to all!
[QUOTE=Gergiev; 1434330]Oh god, please don't take me back to Ivanovo. Once was enough!
But don't worry about taking a 'slow train'. There is no other kind.
Actually, just thinking about it, I don't think it can be done by train.
We'll need to get off at Kostroma and take the 'bus' to Ivanovo.
Which is an experience you'll never forget, riding flat-out in a ramshackle conveyance that literally jumps the tar joinings on the road, every 100 meters or so.
Yep, Strav, we'll need plenty of the old Zim spirit when those other spirits of yours run out. Like the great man once sang.
"Flowers on the hillside, bloomin' crazy.
Crickets talkin' back and forth in rhyme.
Blue river runnin' slow and lazy.
I could stay with you forever and never realize the time."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Gergiev; 1434330]Oh god, please don't take me back to Ivanovo. Once was enough!
But don't worry about taking a 'slow train'. There is no other kind.
Actually, just thinking about it, I don't think it can be done by train.
We'll need to get off at Kostroma and take the 'bus' to Ivanovo.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy;1444358]She wants me to visit there. No flights. 300km with bad roads. Best option is 5 hours by train! [/QUOTE]
Actually there seems to be a flight now. $280 USD round trip from DME to IWA airports. http://www.rusline.aero/
Why wouldn't you want to return to a city with such a high ratio of women?
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1444382]Actually there seems to be a flight now. $280 USD round trip from DME to IWA airports. http://www.rusline.aero/[/QUOTE]Spassiba YummyPL!
Yes, the flight from Domodedovo to Ivanovo is comfortable method. Cost approx 100 EUR return.
I had a strangely big change in attitude from the dancer now. Suddenly wanted to put off seeing me for the whole week. She said it would be too hard for herself when I leave. In one way that is a shame because she was such a lucky find, amazing fuck and was lovely. I was happy to stick with her. Oh well, they come and they go. She also had just the right amount of English, bad enough that she speaks Russian frequently to me but good enough that she understands me, for me the perfect amount. Like a wise person once told me,"the best place to learn a new language is in bed". We will see, she was super horny so I can't imagine she will not contact me when she gets that itch which needs to be scratched.
This puts me back to square one as I ditched girl #1. Ivanovo was not an easy place to meet women, so far (even though 2 were a handful). It's not like they attack you on the street. English is not widely spoken enough to start speaking to a girl on the street in English and expect a date or exchange of phone number. It does take some intelligent observation, cunning and opportunistic behavior. I was having a coffee with girl #2 and when I went to pay the bill inside the barrista girl was very excited with a foreigner and the opportunity to speak English. I will be dropping back there for a well needed coffee this afternoon. I think when you get some English conversation out of someone in their work-place which is facing towards the public, this is a perfect opportunity to request a number under the guise of being a foreigner who knows no one.
Back to Mamba also. I will be using the DVS-shotgun approach (free). Go to the top 100 for the city, look at every profile and any which list English send a copy / paste generic "Hello, I would like to get to know you." message until 20 messages have been used. All the others which list English add to favourite list and send message the next day, repeat until there are enough bites to keep you busy. If not enough bites from the 100 list, just head to the search for the city and repeat. There are from my memory 2500 women in the 18. 30 year old bracket in Ivanovo, which would keep someone very busy with this approach and you need to hope for some interest in your profile. 20 messages per day is rather limited. I've learnt not to waste too much time with typing conversation, send your phone number rather soon and request a meeting in person (in public). They like pro-activeness. If you can't speak Russian, don't waste time with google translate. I did this with a few but it would be just way to awkward in public. They get super excited by Russian conversation over mamba but I think they would just be disappointed in person.
Also, Strav. I will be heading to Vladimir for the weekend. I will take some nice clothes to dress up in and find a wingman to visit a night club there. So there are many more tourists moving through Vladimir, which removes a lot of the excitement for Russian girl. In Ivanovo, I don't actually have to say anything interesting, intelligent, or romantic as apparently here I am these things by just being here.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy; 1444358]My Moscovite girlfriend has been sent by her company to open a new branch in Ivanovo.
She says it is a beautiful but boring place.[/QUOTE]Like they say,"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I'm sure there are some people out there in the wide world that consider downtown Kabul or Baghdad beautiful places, others not so. I'm surprised your Muscovite girlfriend really considers it beautiful. Boring place, but there is definitely fun to be found.
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1444459]Back to Mamba also. I will be using the DVS-shotgun approach (free). Go to the top 100 for the city, look at every profile and any which list English send a copy / paste generic "Hello, I would like to get to know you." message until 20 messages have been used. All the others which list English add to favourite list and send message the next day, repeat until there are enough bites to keep you busy. If not enough bites from the 100 list, just head to the search for the city and repeat. There are from my memory 2500 women in the 18. 30 year old bracket in Ivanovo, which would keep someone very busy with this approach and you need to hope for some interest in your profile. 20 messages per day is rather limited. I've learnt not to waste too much time with typing conversation, send your phone number rather soon and request a meeting in person (in public). They like pro-activeness. If you can't speak Russian, don't waste time with google translate. I did this with a few but it would be just way to awkward in public. They get super excited by Russian conversation over mamba but I think they would just be disappointed in person.[/QUOTE]In contrast to my success other places, I have been doing horribly on Mamba. (
In Ivanovo the Italian expression holds true,"A night without love is a night lost".
Due to me looking down the barrel of another night without the company of a girl I decided to go hit on the cafe girl. The one I spoke to previously was not there but luckily there was another who spoke some English and they girls at the cafe were very excited with a foreigner there. The girl was cute, short and slim, pretty face, blue eyes, brown hair. I would assume around 20 years. So at the end I decided to ask her in a very polite way if I could have her number. First she tried to say that her English is not so good, but I replied that at least I can understand some Russian and I'm sure we would be able to communicate. She had her name tag written in cyrillic, which I used her to at least become more familiar with her and introduce myself using her name to break the ice and she wrote down her number for me. I sent a text message last night saying thanks and asking if she wants to have a drink or walk in the park. No reply yet, maybe I will send again today in cyrillic to see if she is just hestitant because of the language barrier. I understand perfect Rusglish.
I think Russia is still a very classicist society and anyone with enough money to go to a restaurant or cafe, talk to and treat the 'devischka' like they are a servant. I think these girls are usually very cute and probably easily susceptible to flattery and being treated nicely (this holds true for all women). I will see how this adventure away from mamba works out.
Also, the dancer is back on. I just needed to send a love poem by sms to warm her back up again. I think she got annoyed by something I did (or didn't) do. This gives me 2 possibilities for tonight and I hope one comes through.
Mamba was not showing me any love yesterday. Language barrier is a problem. For fun a week ago I found one of the hottest girls I had seen there who listed she spoke Italian so I started a google translate Italian convo with her just to see if she can do any English or French. After 5. 10 mins I told her that I can't speak Italian and we could not communicate so not worth pursuing. She was practically begging for my attention after this saying that she could understand me. Interesting. I find that even though Russian women can understand English they really despise this language for some reason. Strange, I really don't despise other languages and speak a few.
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1444864]Interesting. I find that even though Russian women can understand English they really despise this language for some reason.[/QUOTE]She doesn't despise it, she fears it. There was a time, during the Soviet Union, when English was a forbidden language. The only people who spoke English fluently in the CCCP worked for the KGB or Intourist ( a branch of the KGB). Anyone who spoke English too well could be considered suspect. After all, what possible use could anyone have for English, other then to escape to the West?
It is strange that someone who was born after the Soviet Union should still feel this way. I think this is the difference in the provinces. A young woman her age, living and working in Moscow, would have a completely different attitude toward learning and speaking English. But then, Moscow is not in Russia.
Clever trick, reading the name tag in Cyrillic. Russian is not an easy language to learn, but even something as simple as learning the characters and pronunciation of the Cyrillic alphabet (which can be done on the flight over) will be an immense help. Even without knowing the name, it is perfectly acceptable to address any young woman you meet as, "девушка" (dyevushka).
I envy you, having the time and the freedom to explore the "real" Russia.
BTW - I created a thread for Vladimir and also for Ivanovo. It would be helpful to keep specific information about these provincial towns separate, easier to find it that way. You know, in case someone says, "Hey, I'm going to be in Vladimir for 3 days next week. What should I do?" LOL
G.--sounds like Ivanovo is back on the list. Do you remember if there was a toilet on that bus? ;)
I should have been more detailed about my observation of English language hate. This is not specific to the ones I have spoken to, but over mamba many women list English on their profile but will really have no skills here. Others are simply really disliking any English conversation and I get a very aggressive vibe from them. Fair enough about the history Strav. It seems they add it to appear a little more skilled, intelligent or international which is obviously not a problem if only planning to hear blah blah from men in Russian. The ones I had meetings with have been more outward thinking and international minded and liked the opportunity to speak English. IMHO it seems on mamba, the more attractive the girl is the less likely she is going to be speaking English. Obviously has no problems attracting enough attention from Russian men.
So the dancer dropped me. She cancelled a date saying she forgot about ballet class (can't argue there) and then said no more meetings because it is senseless having a short relationship with only the prospect of "keeping in contact". I guess this was the best possible outcome because I was not planning of keeping in contact with her once I'm gone. I still hope for some farewell pornstar fucking though. Honestly, I'm still convinced that she must be 18 or 19, judging by the other women I've met so far she is just so young.
I didn't chase the cafe girl anymore by phone, but yes, some Russian skills go a long way and this is clear on other dates. I had some luck fishing on mamba again. Lined up a very nice looking blonde for next week. And I actually was fished by a 30 YO half Korean half Russian woman who came out for tea and a walk in the park last night. Nice and interesting but I didn't pull any moves with her, I just wasn't getting the vibes, closeness and opportunity. She was fun and had a great sense of humor, fantastic English and was attractive enough but with the complication of having a 10 year old daughter and being understandably cautious. She did tell me that 50% of the mothers at her daughters school are single mothers. I'm sure you other guys have noticed there are an incredibly large number of these women in their 20s with a child or 2 and divorced.
I'm sure this matter of divorce and young marriage is very complicated. Obviously if a 19 year old girl meets 19 year old boy, the 19 year old girl is going to be thinking much smarter, is more mature mentally and is already wanting marriage compounded by possible religious problems of no sex before marriage. 19 year old boy is simply thinking with his dick and how he is going to put it to use as fast as possible resulting in a fast marriage. Etc. No wonder the guys here like to stray.
Anyway, I'll keep these posts to the 'dating Russian women' because I'm not doing any P4P here, I can keep my hands full for free. If I have any information on the P4P scene I will post to the city threads. In Ivanovo I did get a quote to 5000 RUB for 2 hours, which is normal price for here. Fortunately dating the women here is quite cost effective and 3 'expensive' dinners would likely not even get over the 5000 RUB mark especially because the women here seem not to like drinking wine. A very effective date here is going for a pot of tea and a walk in the park, costs 200 RUB and is very well received. They are definitely not demanding like Muscovite girls, but they are more traditional when it comes to not wanting a 'boyfriend' but a husband. I think Muscovite girls are more realistic in that 'boyfriend' will hopefully turn into 'husband' but if not they at least are not waiting in the cold by themselves.
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1445280]I'm sure this matter of divorce and young marriage is very complicated. Obviously if a 19 year old girl meets 19 year old boy, the 19 year old girl is going to be thinking much smarter, is more mature mentally and is already wanting marriage compounded by possible religious problems of no sex before marriage. 19 year old boy is simply thinking with his dick and how he is going to put it to use as fast as possible resulting in a fast marriage. Etc. No wonder the guys here like to stray.[/QUOTE]It is fucking crazy. Not one of the three girls I was fucking without a condom was using any birth control at all. Two asked me to cum outside them originally and one of those agreed to letting me cum inside her after I asked after a couple of times. None of them had any control with whether or not I would cum inside them. None of them had any idea I had a vasectomy and probably would not be dating me if they knew that I did.
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1444459]I will be heading to Vladimir for the weekend. I will take some nice clothes to dress up in and find a wingman to visit a night club there. So there are many more tourists moving through Vladimir, which removes a lot of the excitement for Russian girl. In Ivanovo, I don't actually have to say anything interesting, intelligent, or romantic as apparently here I am these things by just being here.[/QUOTE]Not necessarily.
In Vladimir, most tourists visit during the day for a few hours and move on.
Even independent ones usually spend the first part of the day in Vladimir and then take the bus to Suzdal for the night.
If you're out and about in Vlad after dark, you won't meet many or indeed any foreigners.
By the way, you could do worse then start your evening with a bite to eat on the verandah at the back of the Hotel Vladimir and see if there's any visitors/potential 'wingmen' around.
Later on, there's a karaoke place on the same side of the main street where you might just get lucky.
But most young Russians meet up at the open spaces around the side and back of the Assumption Cathedral...
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1445501]None of them had any idea I had a vasectomy and probably would not be dating me if they knew that I did.[/QUOTE]Maybe they take pills and lied to you, or they were quite sure they wouldn't get pregnant out of counting the days, just to make you feel a great Casanova striking at once their tender hearts. I don't want to discuss the topic of having sex at first date with a stranger (because that's what you actually were to each other) , nor the fact of doing it without condom (I'm soon going to NRW and I might, hopefully not, give in in AO clubs) , but did you ever think they might want to get pregnant?
Sorry for insisting in looking for some cheating, but all seems too fast and too deep for being in good faith, even the more naive girls should have a minimum common sense.
[QUOTE=EastGoing;1445565], but did you ever think they might want to get pregnant? .[/QUOTE]That is exactly what I think. I suspect that they think I am a nice enough guy that I would take care of them if such a thing were to happen.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1445653]That is exactly what I think. I suspect that they think I am a nice enough guy that I would take care of them if such a thing were to happen.[/QUOTE]Ok, so, you left on June 22nd after 8 days of repeated inseminations, today is 13th, soon you'll get good news, LOL!
P. S. Am I right supposing that by touching or looking at your cum, one can clearly notice you had vasectomy? It should be not thick or sticky, just "water" from prostate and some glands, correct?
[QUOTE=EastGoing; 1445680]Ok, so, you left on June 22nd after 8 days of repeated inseminations, today is 13th, soon you'll get good news, LOL!
P. S. Am I right supposing that by touching or looking at your cum, one can clearly notice you had vasectomy? It should be not thick or sticky, just "water" from prostate and some glands, correct?[/QUOTE]I saw no difference before and after the vasectomy in what the cum looked like.
I think that the pregnancy thing is an attempted method to trap the Russian men and secure one. To do everything to make it difficult for them to leave. Depending on the type of guy, it still takes a lot to just walk away from a pregnant woman if your families are rather intertwined and you have some history. Obviously this doesn't work for a foreigner who will just leave the country and you would have hopefully not divulged too much information about yourself.
Actually, to give hard time to a guy, they don't need to really get pregnant. How would you feel if a girl whose pussy you filled with cum told you "I'm pregnant"? Or even only late on her cycle? If she asked money for abortion? If she said it's yours? If she wanted to be married? Or she wanted support for her and the baby? A big big problem, with little or nothing you can do to solve it, especially depending on the requests you get. Of course you'll want to know if she's really pregnant, if by you, but she may not cooperate, anyway still a lot of trouble. And the fact of being far away has its pros and cons, however a disaster, from all points of view, whether you believe her or not, whether you'd like to keep her (or "both") or not, whether it's true or not, you know you did it and you won't have peace anymore. Luckily for our hero, Yummy, he's sure that a claim would be an invention or the evidence that the girls were not going just with him, so nothing to fear. If that happens to him, the LOLs will cross the ocean! Ahahahahah
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1446161]I think that the pregnancy thing is an attempted method to trap the Russian men and secure one. To do everything to make it difficult for them to leave. Depending on the type of guy, it still takes a lot to just walk away from a pregnant woman if your families are rather intertwined and you have some history. Obviously this doesn't work for a foreigner who will just leave the country and you would have hopefully not divulged too much information about yourself.[/QUOTE]Not to contradict you, but I have observed that just the opposite is often true in Russia. The local guys often refuse to wear condoms and unplanned pregnancies are commonplace amongst Russian girls. Medical care is provided by the state so getting an abortion is no big thing. DNA testing for paternal proof is not that popular yet so a Russian guy who wants to "walk away" needs only call his girlfriend a sl*t and say the baby is not his.
If anything, Western guys who impregnate Russian girls tend NOT just to fly away. My neighbor's sister works for a Russian department of social services that deals with single mothers and says that unplanned pregnancies from foreign guys are almost insignificant. And in those cases they DO hear about, the foreigner most often act responsibly and offers assistance. Ironically, she says that the BIGGER problem is that the foreigners often claim paternal rights and want to become a part of the child's life. In some cases, it's a dream come true and in other cases it's a nightmare.
However, like our friend, I was "snipped" years ago and don't worry about such things on the occasions that I have un-protected sex with local girls.
Interestingly I was speaking with a 22 yo Russian girl on Saturday night, she was informing me that the government here has been making abortion options more and more difficult, from what I understood possibly down to the one medical procedure from a number of options a few years back, for 2 reasons: To secure the religious vote and to increase the birth rate.
So guys, looks like Mamba had been doing well for me. I'm 2 from 3. Enjoyable time with girl number 3 last night. 2 sessions at night and one in the morning, she was very proactive in bed and a great fuck. Wasn't as freaky as the dancer but otherwise great give her 7/10 attractiveness and 8/10 for sex and I've paid for sex from less attractive women. Regretfully. She introduced me to a great source of women here to tap, I just have to try and ditch her from this so I can roam free.
For real good service recommend escorts agency. They watching for health of girl, try to make good pictures and took just best one [URL]http://www.vipescort-moscow.com/[/URL].
Dear fellows.
In preparation to a moscow trip I signed up at Mamba, and did some nice Chats over there. Would like to have some questions to experienced fellows in here. At Mamba I could find 3 types of Girls.
1.) They say clear that they do not want blabla, they want to meet. And they want to have a gratification. Offers have between from 10000 rub for one our till 100000 rub for the whole night. I have no idea. Do you think this Price is ok?
2.) They start a very short blabla conversation, but changed into the Meeting-for-Money-mode quickly. Price more or less then the others.
3.) Girls do not say one word about Money or sex, but in general open to meet. That's my biggest question: what Kind of could they be?
I am looking only in the 18 - 25 years section.
[QUOTE=Germanboy2;1797981]Dear fellows.
In preparation to a moscow trip I signed up at Mamba, and did some nice Chats over there. Would like to have some questions to experienced fellows in here. At Mamba I could find 3 types of Girls.
1.) They say clear that they do not want blabla, they want to meet. And they want to have a gratification. Offers have between from 10000 rub for one our till 100000 rub for the whole night. I have no idea. Do you think this Price is ok?
2.) They start a very short blabla conversation, but changed into the Meeting-for-Money-mode quickly. Price more or less then the others.
3.) Girls do not say one word about Money or sex, but in general open to meet. That's my biggest question: what Kind of could they be?
I am looking only in the 18 - 25 years section.[/QUOTE]Section 1 girls are professional hooker who arr using Mamba as another platform to look for clients. Some of them I have also seen on rusdosug or intimacy. Please never pay 100000 for a night. From my experience 40000 for s super stunner is fine. These days it is difficult from women in Moscow to find clients. Section 2 and 3 are more or less the same. I would assume that your section 3 dates would also expect even a present when you meet them. Section 2 is a bit more professional than 3. These girls not only meeting for money, but looking also for something fix. Again 3 more obviously then 2. I personally prefer to meet with your 2 and three section for a real girl friend experience. Just with section 3 girls emotions will get involved quickly.
Hello,
Which websites are best to find long term girl friend? So far, just mamba and [URL]russiancupid.com[/URL] came into my knowledge, can you advise anything else? And according to your experience, with mamba and [URL]russiancupid.com[/URL], can I get good results on average?
Thank you,
Karete.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1445202]She doesn't despise it, she fears it. There was a time, during the Soviet Union, when English was a forbidden language. The only people who spoke English fluently in the CCCP worked for the KGB or Intourist ( a branch of the KGB). Anyone who spoke English too well could be considered suspect. After all, what possible use could anyone have for English, other then to escape to the West?
It is strange that someone who was born after the Soviet Union should still feel this way. I think this is the difference in the provinces. A young woman her age, living and working in Moscow, would have a completely different attitude toward learning and speaking English. But then, Moscow is not in Russia.
Clever trick, reading the name tag in Cyrillic. Russian is not an easy language to learn, but even something as simple as learning the characters and pronunciation of the Cyrillic alphabet (which can be done on the flight over) will be an immense help. Even without knowing the name, it is perfectly acceptable to address any young woman you meet as, "девушка" (dyevushka).
I envy you, having the time and the freedom to explore the "real" Russia.
BTW - I created a thread for Vladimir and also for Ivanovo. It would be helpful to keep specific information about these provincial towns separate, easier to find it that way. You know, in case someone says, "Hey, I'm going to be in Vladimir for 3 days next week. What should I do?" LOL
G.--sounds like Ivanovo is back on the list. Do you remember if there was a toilet on that bus? ;)[/QUOTE]Learning a foreign language was required in the world-class education system in the USSR. English was one of the subjects.
[QUOTE=DianaRus;1707441]For real good service recommend escorts agency. They watching for health of girl, try to make good pictures and took just best one vipescort-moscow.com.[/QUOTE]It's too expensive, you can just meet a girl from Russia on [URL]https://j4l.com[/URL], first of all, it can be not just sex but relationships, and secondly, they were not used by everyone in a row,
[blue][Commercial Message deleted by Admin][/blue]
[b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]This report was redacted or deleted because it appeared to be a commercial message and/or it contained links to a commercial website. Please post reports consisting primarily of a commercial nature and/or reports with links to commercial websites in the Classified Advertisement section of the Forum. Please read the Forum's Posting Guidelines and the Forum's FAQ for further information.[/blue]