Thread Starter.
Printable View
Thread Starter.
Please Administrator! Can you split this thread in two sections, positive posts and negative posts, so we finally can read the section we like?
Obvious constant trolling allowed by the mods. Until they do something no more reports from me.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2228135]Obvious constant trolling allowed by the mods. Until they do something no more reports from me.[/QUOTE]We should have a fight thread. Way too many shills here for it not to get argumentative.
[QUOTE=Riina;2228787]We should have a fight thread. Way too many shills here for it not to get argumentative.[/QUOTE]So you want to fight me? What a loser. Just because I had a positive experience in Kiev? It's people like you that are making this thread useless.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2229102]So you want to fight me? What a loser. Just because I had a positive experience in Kiev? It's people like you that are making this thread useless.[/QUOTE]No, I don't want to fight you. I was one of the first to call out Kiev as a bad mongering destination. Here we are now with the thread repeatedly confirming it.
I'm moderated now and plan to post much less. Looking forward to reading useful information.
I humbly beg to differ, you and maybe one other are repeatedly confirming it. How many times do you have to repeat how much Ukraine sucks for mongering? Seriously, how many times till your satisfied?
Every time anyone even remotely says they had a good time you come running in to either accuse them of lying or start your rant on how much it sucks in Ukraine. Even when a first time visitor asks for advice you rip on Ukraine telling them to stay away. I'm not making this stuff up either, anyone can just look up your posts and it verifies it.
I'm not looking for a fight just pointing out the facts.
I would venture to say that less people post in the Ukraine forum for that reason alone. Not because they are afraid but because it's damn annoying to have to deal with you and the 1 or 2 other naysayers who just can't let it go.
Heck, I'm being as diplomatic as I can possibly be right now but I have no doubt you'll still come back with some filth laced response. Sigh.
[QUOTE=Riina;2229116]No, I don't want to fight you. I was one of the first to call out Kiev as a bad mongering destination. Here we are now with the thread repeatedly confirming it.
I'm moderated now and plan to post much less. Looking forward to reading useful information.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Alekezam;2229303]I humbly beg to differ, you and maybe one other are repeatedly confirming it. How many times do you have to repeat how much Ukraine sucks for mongering? Seriously, how many times till your satisfied?
Every time anyone even remotely says they had a good time you come running in to either accuse them of lying or start your rant on how much it sucks in Ukraine. Even when a first time visitor asks for advice you rip on Ukraine telling them to stay away. I'm not making this stuff up either, anyone can just look up your posts and it verifies it.
I'm not looking for a fight just pointing out the facts.
I would venture to say that less people post in the Ukraine forum for that reason alone. Not because they are afraid but because it's damn annoying to have to deal with you and the 1 or 2 other naysayers who just can't let it go.
Heck, I'm being as diplomatic as I can possibly be right now but I have no doubt you'll still come back with some filth laced response. Sigh.[/QUOTE]As long as I have my passion for Ukrainian girls, I plan to post my honest opinion. Kiev thread is all yours now. If I want to comment on a report, I'll just repost it here and express my view.
Riina,
I just wanted to say you are one of the few people on this page that does both post positive and the reality in Kiev and some of the negative issues to mongering in Kiev. I appreciate your posts and I wish others would do the same.
I will try to be more positive, but I do feel the current situation in Kiev is bad especially for Newbies. I worry about the new guys planning trips to Kiev, it can be real difficult for them, possibly a real expressive and bad experience. I hope when guys post they keep this in mind.
[QUOTE=Admin;2229232]Thread Starter.[/QUOTE]What a great brilliant awesome thought indeed! Forum became too polluted with prepostorous pseudo-reports to continue as is. Thank you!
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2229806]Riina,
I just wanted to say you are one of the few people on this page that does both post positive and the reality in Kiev and some of the negative issues to mongering in Kiev. I appreciate your posts and I wish others would do the same.
I will try to be more positive, but I do feel the current situation in Kiev is bad especially for Newbies. I worry about the new guys planning trips to Kiev, it can be real difficult for them, possibly a real expressive and bad experience. I hope when guys post they keep this in mind.[/QUOTE]Can one of you dudes explain me the term "mongering"? What is this actually?
[QUOTE=MichiT;2230786]Can one of you dudes explain me the term "mongering"? What is this actually?[/QUOTE]According to Urban Dictionary. [I]A person who is actively researching and on the prowl for sexual intercourse with a professional or otherwise. This mostly happens away from home in a foreign Country or City, but can happen right in your own town.[/I].
I prefer the word hobbyist.
[QUOTE=MichiT;2230786]Can one of you dudes explain me the term "mongering"? What is this actually?[/QUOTE]Monger is a short name for mongersex, one who frequents working girls and prostitutes.
For instance: "he's a true monger, even his vacations are all to some fucking destinations".
[QUOTE=Volpone;2230944]Monger is a short name for mongersex, one who frequents working girls and prostitutes.
For instance: "he's a true monger, even his vacations are all to some fucking destinations".[/QUOTE]Ohhh, ok, so, this forum is mainly about "sex for money". That explains a lot.
My approach is not to pay for girls, my approach is to speak to girls in everyday life and to start from there. Without payments involved.
Now I start to understand why most guys here in the forum have no idea how to talk to a girl on the street but constantly say about girls they have. That may also explain why some pople love Kiev (mainly those who pay for sex) and some people hate sex (mainly those old and not so taltented guys who never land with a young girl).
Loooool!
Nonetheless, I keep my way, talking to normal girls on the street and pay only in very rare situations for a girl. Looooooolll!
[QUOTE=MichiT;2230956]Ohhh, ok, so, this forum is mainly about "sex for money". That explains a lot.
My approach is not to pay for girls, my approach is to speak to girls in everyday life and to start from there. Without payments involved.
Now I start to understand why most guys here in the forum have no idea how to talk to a girl on the street but constantly say about girls they have. That may also explain why some pople love Kiev (mainly those who pay for sex) and some people hate sex (mainly those old and not so taltented guys who never land with a young girl).
Loooool!
Nonetheless, I keep my way, talking to normal girls on the street and pay only in very rare situations for a girl. Looooooolll![/QUOTE]Yeah, you are the best! And we simply are the low life creatures trying hard to keep up with true leaders.
Seriously speaking Kiev and Ukrainian girls in general are well known for turning people insane, and even disappearing for weeks and months. Mike Tyson, JC Van Damm, etc.
Why is someone on a pay for sex forum if they are so attractive and don't have to pay.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2231010]Yeah, you are the best! And we simply are the low life creatures trying hard to keep up with true leaders.
Seriously speaking Kiev and Ukrainian girls in general are well known for turning people insane, and even disappearing for weeks and months. Mike Tyson, JC Van Damm, etc.[/QUOTE]What you mean by insulting me? Is all right with you?
Ukrainian girls are just greedy for mone. That was told to me today by a Iranian lady that I met in the Billa supermarket. She converted from the Islam to the Christianity. And she is right. Ukrainian people in gerneral and girls in particular cannot be traustet-.
I think because I've become a relationship junkie with fucked up girls. My days of satisfying primal needs are almost over. Amazing what you can learn and the empathy you can come to feel for different people when you're up close. Ukraine would be a goldmine for me.
[QUOTE=Riina;2231145]Why is someone on a pay for sex forum if they are so attractive and don't have to pay.[/QUOTE]I am not that attractive, and I do both P4P and free.
Why someone is on our Forum. ? Rhetoric question. Yet in my not so humble opinion the answers might be:
Vanity. Pride. Bragging. Ego hurt by loss. The usual emotions within the male circles.
Vanity is more positive, as long as it is not at the expense of others by belittling them.
Bitching on the other hand, even when ill disguised as an attempt to warn others, is mostly negative. Thanks God, this thread has been created. If only pollution in the Kiev Forum was moderated a little better in that respect. But we are all adults, no babysitting needed. Jackson is understandably busy.
The righteous ones help the community by meaningful credible info, analytics and positive applicable hints: Jymondor, Kozerog, Norsking, Riina, Jojosun, Rog123, et al.
[URL]http://classyladiesofchicago.escortbook.com/[/URL]
Guys,
Chicago is becoming a hub for Euro hookers. I think because NY, LA, and Miami are becoming very expensive places to live. Plus their's not much marketing available since the other forum went dark in the states. Post Fosta / Sesta has been the best mongering time of my life. The way girls are looking at me now is similar to post 911 when Russians saw me as a path to papers.
If you make a trip to Chicago, get a hotel in Prospect Heights, Illinois at Milwaukee Ave and Willow Road. Nail your brains out with Russians and Ukrainians cheaply.
[URL]https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/107758278/New-Zealander-looking-for-love-in-Ukraine-drugged-robbed-of-18-000[/URL]
If this poor guy had read this forum and realized Kiev was a scam city scam culture, he would have likely avoided this mess. He was probably robbed by a girl and doesn't want to admit it.
[URL]https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/107758278/New-Zealander-looking-for-love-in-Ukraine-drugged-robbed-of-18-000[/URL]
If this poor fella would have read this forum, he would have known that he was a target the moment he landed in Ukraine.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2242136]Where did you read that Avalon is closed?
When was the last time you were in Kiev? 2-3 years ago?
How can you create a list of Clubs in Kiev and pretend to provide advise for newbies here on anything related to Kiev, when all your info is based on hear-say and contempt for anything in Ukraine?
For Forum members: Avalon is alive and more than well after 20 years in business, and IMO keeps getting better with every year! I do not see any reason for it getting closed. In fact as a restaurant I like it much better than anything in Arena. My top 10 favorite in Kiev. It is not exactly a pick up place though. I go there with my new dates to relax and have great time. I am also acquainted with all Avalon hostesses, director of the first floor, and general manger of the whole complex, that includes spa, karaoke, fitness and more. Had a very nice dinner there a week ago. Introduced one distinguished Forum member to it few weeks ago, and we had an amazing conversation. Thanks to Jackson again!
Cheers![/QUOTE]Thanks! Always enjoy you're honest and non-biased opinions and information whether it be bad or good.
There are still 2 particular individuals who are providing no valuable information other than negativity towards the country or attacking those who deem otherwise. In fact, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were the same person using two accounts.
But hey, this should should really be placed in the thread for stupid shit but since they aren't being moderated then what's the point?
GIA was my go to in the past and I thoroughly enjoyed it for both quality and price. Messed around with Mamba but was never really able to follow through with it but given the amount of correspondence I had on it I don't doubt I could have. Tinder was a definite goldmine. Never mongered on it but I was able to meet girls really easily. There are other dating specific sites that I don't want to flat out giveaway as I was able to secure non-paying interactions so they weren't necessarily geared towards mongering but that's not to say they couldn't have been. Maybe I just got lucky. Not to say I'm some sort of Casanova but I am middle aged, above average physically fit, socially adept, and have a pretty disposable income.
Point is, whether you're in Kiev to monger or not, it's extremely easy to meet girls that, in my opinion, are drop dead gorgeous.
Compare that to here in the States and there is no comparison whatsoever. I can't speak of the FKK's and other options in Western Europe as I've never mongered there. Not even going to compare with Asia or South American countries as those are completely different types of girls.
So all this talk of old days and inflated prices is ridiculous because guess what? Inflation is a global phenomenon. Deal with it. If you don't have the cash then work harder or tough luck. Even at the inflated prices it's still way cheaper than in the US so I'm not going to complain.
Someone needs to create a forum for the Casanovas in Kiev. I understand their dilemma, chat about pussy on any other site and you're instantly banned. The problem is this a a pay for sex forum and nobody cares about their freebies and how socially adept they are are pulling hotties at middle age.
[QUOTE=JonasWRay;2242212]There are still 2 particular individuals who are providing no valuable information other than negativity towards the country or attacking those who deem otherwise. In fact, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they were the same person using two accounts..[/QUOTE]I fully respect all opinions on this forum, But I honestly think you're wrong here as it's obvious to me they are not the same Person. Just read previous posts and you get the picture.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2243068]I fully respect all opinions on this forum, But I honestly think you're wrong here as it's obvious to me they are not the same Person. Just read previous posts and you get the picture.[/QUOTE]I never disclosed whom the individuals are but even then it's easy to deduce as you more than likely have.
So what does that say about the number of people who hate on Ukraine so much?
Anyhow, not my intent to pick a fight. I'm merely one person who has had a positive experience.
I prefer to keep it civil and not attack others with differing opinions as we each deserve to voice them.
So apologies if I offended them I only want to make sure that others understand that that the experience varies from person to person as we are all different in terms of our cash flow, personality, age, physical fitness, etc etc. It's unfair to paint a an absolute negative experience on a country simply because you have had bad experiences. What about those who haven't had a negative experience like myself? Yeah, crap happens but not to everybody.
[QUOTE=Riina;2242437]Someone needs to create a forum for the Casanovas in Kiev. I understand their dilemma, chat about pussy on any other site and you're instantly banned. The problem is this a a pay for sex forum and nobody cares about their freebies and how socially adept they are are pulling hotties at middle age.[/QUOTE]Would you include our friend from the olden days (Prosal) as a member as well? With his freebies from Uzbekistan to Kiev.
Thank you for the back up, Appreciate it. This is funny, these 2 guys, tried to embarrass me, In the process they helped to prove my point How little they know about Kiev. Recommend a club and restaurant that has been dead for 10 years, Completely empty 99% of the time. Please ask Jackson to clarify, if you have any questions about the fact we are 2 people. You're in for a big surprise.
DramaFree11 weakens his credibility with repeated careless formatting of posts, never mind the contents of those posts. If he is similarly careless in his mongering, that will spell disaster in Kyiv. But I think there is an element of truth in his critique. If you read PhotoSlider's reports carefully and you have personal experience with those hidden agencies he is using, then you will recognize that reality might feel quite different from his description. Not everyone is as quick to recover as PhotoSlider from rude girls who have to be sent away, girls who turn out unenthusiastic in bed, rude mamasans, etc. PhotoSlider was determined to make things work, he steered forwards relentlessly, as he puts it, and was obviously attentive to what he was doing so as to minimize risks and avoid problems. That's how I used to be when I was running a business, when setbacks just energized me to try harder. Not everyone is going to have that determined attitude with regards to mongering. Without that determined attitude plus lots of experience and street sense, I think average guys are going to find Kyiv closer to DramaFree11's description than PhotoSlider's.
What is not talked about much on this forum is the option of a shared mistress situation like I have with my jewel. If I will be seeing a girl / woman hundreds of times over the years (I've only seen my jewel about 36 times so far, but my hopes are high for the future) then the sort of unpleasant effort PhotoSlider is implying in his reports makes sense for someone like me, whereas it doesn't make sense for one shot deals. Big upfront investment but bigger long-term payoff. Of course, a mistress situation is not for everyone.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2243250]...If you read PhotoSlider's reports carefully and you have personal experience with those hidden agencies he is using, then you will recognize that reality might feel quite different from his description. Not everyone is as quick to recover as PhotoSlider from rude girls who have to be sent away, girls who turn out unenthusiastic in bed, rude mamasans, etc. PhotoSlider was determined to make things work, he steered forwards relentlessly, as he puts it, and was obviously attentive to what he was doing so as to minimize risks and avoid problems.[/QUOTE]I wouldn't even call it forward, more precisely steering away from underwater rocks and other disasters potentially damaging the ship, there are plenty of those in Kiev. Just as you say, Kozerog, minimizing risks and avoid problems.
I am thinking in terms of strategic methodology applied to categories withing the locality, not tactical tricks applied to individuals.
In Rio-de-Janeiro, Brazil, it meant going to good Termas instead of street hunting and ordering outcalls to my place, as I didn't know the language that much, and there's a higher crime rate.
[QUOTE] That's how I used to be when I was running a business, when setbacks just energized me to try harder. Not everyone is going to have that determined attitude with regards to mongering. Without that determined attitude plus lots of experience and street sense, I think average guys are going to find Kyiv closer to DramaFree11's description than PhotoSlider's.[/QUOTE]I have other thoughts on the subject. Trying to replicate Western hunting approach for women in Ukrainian bars and clubs is what killing most of foreign visitors. Kiev is cannot be further away from the concept. Will elaborate later, need to think more before trying to help others.
[QUOTE]What is not talked about much on this forum is the option of a shared mistress situation like I have with my jewel. If I will be seeing a girl / woman hundreds of times over the years (I've only seen my jewel about 36 times so far, but my hopes are high for the future) then the sort of unpleasant effort PhotoSlider is implying in his reports makes sense for someone like me, whereas it doesn't make sense for one shot deals. Big upfront investment but bigger long-term payoff. Of course, a mistress situation is not for everyone.[/QUOTE]I did an ex-GIA GF for 2 weeks during this visit, and kicked her out eventually for being selfish, and not sweet enough. I could have stayed longer with her, getting more and more pissed and irritated. Cutting her out and shutting down any and all communication without further damage and endless complaints seems like a right move.
I currently have 2 long-term GFs in Kiev:
- One for 4 years now, she is a freelancer, and a smart one. My favorite.
- Another one for the last 3 years, and she has a significant other (other than me).
Most enjoyable young ladies. Trust means a lot in those relationships. Should see both of them soon.
Another ex-GIA I had for half a year, then her innocence wore out and I stopped answering Viber messages, stopped seeing her while visiting Kiev. She was one of the sweetest. Such a shame what happened to a very classy lady!
Also my apologies to everybody, if my Casanova posts offend you. Please disregard and keep in mind that I had my own share of failures in Kiev and elsewhere. I am almost surprised that Kozerog understand me the best. Perhaps it is his analytical mind and honesty to himself.
It's posts like Kozerogs and PhotoSliders that make me realize that mongering in a new destination is like starting a business from scratch. You'll have to deal with setbacks and learn. I've become very comfortable with my Ukrainian pimp back home that everything has become so easy like a smooth operating business any idiot could manage. Maybe that's why I was down on Kiev my last trip. It's tough to start from the beginning again.
[QUOTE=Riina;2235943][URL]https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/107758278/New-Zealander-looking-for-love-in-Ukraine-drugged-robbed-of-18-000[/URL]
If this poor fella would have read this forum, he would have known that he was a target the moment he landed in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Him specifically, or anybody in Ukraine?
[QUOTE=Riina;2243734]It's posts like Kozerogs and PhotoSliders that make me realize that mongering in a new destination is like starting a business from scratch. You'll have to deal with setbacks and learn. I've become very comfortable with my Ukrainian pimp back home that everything has become so easy like a smooth operating business any idiot could manage. Maybe that's why I was down on Kiev my last trip. It's tough to start from the beginning again.[/QUOTE]You are totally correct Kozerog is a pro and tells things the way they are, both good / bad.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2244395]You are totally correct Kozerog is a pro and tells things the way they are, both good / bad.[/QUOTE]I love how Drama gives his opinion on other posters validity but he admits he hasn't been to Kiev in 2+ years. Rinna is a better source with his Chicago info!
[QUOTE=Rog123;2244757]I love how Drama gives his opinion on other posters validity but he admits he hasn't been to Kiev in 2+ years. Rinna is a better source with his Chicago info![/QUOTE]I was talking about accurate and real information, not fictional.
[QUOTE=JonasWRay;2243154]I never disclosed whom the individuals are but even then it's easy to deduce as you more than likely have.
So what does that say about the number of people who hate on Ukraine so much?
Anyhow, not my intent to pick a fight. I'm merely one person who has had a positive experience.
I prefer to keep it civil and not attack others with differing opinions as we each deserve to voice them.
So apologies if I offended them I only want to make sure that others understand that that the experience varies from person to person as we are all different in terms of our cash flow, personality, age, physical fitness, etc etc. It's unfair to paint a an absolute negative experience on a country simply because you have had bad experiences. What about those who haven't had a negative experience like myself? Yeah, crap happens but not to everybody.[/QUOTE]Can you believe it that crap did happen on one of my trips not just once but twice. Not in Kiev and I've been there loads of times, but in one of the safest cities in the world, Tokyo.
Shinjuku area of Tokyo and my drink got spiked by the Nigerian manager of a hostess bar. I smelt a rat when I had a look at my beer with very frothy head to it.
I just got up and headed to the exit and told him to f off.
Second time a very sexy Chinese hostess managed to fleece me out of nearly US $300 for just touching and feeling her in the club in the Akasaka area of Tokyo.
The 2 big scams didn't turn me against Tokyo as one of the great cities for fun and sex if only exchange rates go back to what they were nearly 10 years ago.
Stupid shit in Kiev discussion is so silen!? Everybody now happy with Kiev girls?
[QUOTE=MichiT;2296714]Stupid shit in Kiev discussion is so silen!? Everybody now happy with Kiev girls?[/QUOTE]Probably 30-45% are happy. Much better destinations as you know well.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2297011]Probably 30-45% are happy. Much better destinations as you know well.[/QUOTE]I know well, but why do you know that I know?
[QUOTE=MichiT;2297060]I know well, but why do you know that I know?[/QUOTE]It is obvious by your posts you know what you are doing. Unlike others you do not exaggerate or fabricate your stories. I give you credit for not paying as myself and others do, so keep up the good work.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2301388]Mistress, this is the norm, this guy make the crazy statements all the time. He simply does not care and has had little regard for newbies by his post, his statements do not give accurate picture of Kiev. He thinks it is funny when girls ask him for money or when he is a victim of bait and switch.[/QUOTE]I think I know the Ukraine better than most people in the forum. How much time did you spend in the Ukraine? Several years? Like me? You were in the Ukraine when the Maidan burned? Like me? Do you know Kiev as it was over 20 years ago? Or 10 or 5 years ago? Did you travel through the Ukraine? From Lviv and Lutsk to Crimea? To Kharkiv, Zaporishe, Donetsk and Odessa? To the border to Bulgaria? And also to the small towns?
The problem with reality is that you have spent most of your time with prostitutes. Professionals. Or semi-professionals. Not with normal people. The ideas of these girls are different. These girls want to rise. At least financially. In the company of these girls you will never experience the Ukrainian reality.
Where are you looking for an iphone in Kiev? On the Internet? Many of the prices are negotiable. In a shop in the center? That's the wrong place. Go to the suburbs. Or just Radio Rynok. Even there, all prices are not fixed.
[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2301503]I think I know the Ukraine better than most people in the forum. How much time did you spend in the Ukraine? Several years? Like me? You were in the Ukraine when the Maidan burned? Like me? Do you know Kiev as it was over 20 years ago? Or 10 or 5 years ago? Did you travel through the Ukraine? From Lviv and Lutsk to Crimea? To Kharkiv, Zaporishe, Donetsk and Odessa? To the border to Bulgaria? And also to the small towns?[/QUOTE]Ukraine doesn't have border with Bulgaria. It's a common misconception. Doesn't really matter. Lets' call it a border with Romania. Yes I did go all the way to Danube River, where people speak an interesting mix of languages.
Yes I know Ukraine for more than 30 years now, and was in Kiev in 1986, the Chernobyl year. I stayed downtown at my GFs apartment at that time. She is nowhere near even a hint of semi-pro or anything.
I did hitchhiking for free with a different civilian GF in 1987 all the way from north of Kharkiv through Kremenchug to Odessa and back with a stop-over in Kiev. She was gorgeous in her mini-skirt helping to stop truck-trailer drivers. One night near Aleksandria or Kirovograd we stayed overnight in the village, just knocked on the door, and the old lady let us sleep in her barn. In the morning she brought us fresh cherries for breakfast. As you know, in Ukraine this is nothing special. God bless that old lady!
I have been to Crimea too many times, at least since 1987, and for another 6 weeks as late as September 2013 before the annexation.
I wish I went to Lviv, Uzhgorod, and many great cities in the West. Somehow I get stuck with girls in Kiev.
Yes, obviously you traveled more than me, and have justified claims on superiority. That's fine. This is not about whose dick is thicker and longer. This is Kiev Forum, as relevant as traveling through all of Ukraine might be.
I prefer that girls from remote towns and villages come to Kiev, and I meet them there. Prostitutes or not. I certainly differentiate, but there is a wide spectrum range in Kiev going from complete prudes to outright pros, and that attracts me personally.
IMHO it is much easier for an average member of this Kiev Forum to go to Kiev and stay in Kiev entertaining himself. There are separate threads for venturing outside.
[QUOTE]Where are you looking for an iphone in Kiev? On the Internet? Many of the prices are negotiable. In a shop in the center? That's the wrong place. Go to the suburbs. Or just Radio Rynok. Even there, all prices are not fixed.[/QUOTE]Again, you are completely missing the point.Yes Kiev is flooded with all kinds of smartphones, of various quality and price.
I do not look anywhere to buy. I already have very good iPhone 6's 128 GB for free, that I do not need. It looks like new, with box and everything. My guess in Kiev it is at least 200 USD. The girl in question would prefer to pocket the difference between 6's and X or even new 8. And I agree with her, even though we never discussed it. It is difficult to earn money for a student in the college 2-3 hours away from Kiev. And I misspoke, it is not refurbished, it is used. Maybe I should replace the battery, and with that I actually would like to use your advise. Do you know a reliable repair shop? I cannot use a random one, because my friends experienced a different levels of repair quality in Kiev.
IMO 6's was the best iPhone made by Apple, and it has been discontinued. New 6's is not being sold as of September 2018. Too bad. At some point it will not run newer iOS and apps. That is the main logical reason to have a newer model, besides it being a status symbol like Michael Kors purse and shit.
In the past I gave away my retired and perfectly working iPhone 5 mongerphone. Funny, I gave it to mother of my GF in Cherkassy. I asked if after that I should marry her.
Is this young lady my mistress? Well, usually labeling someone a mistress has a connotation of exclusivity. I like my dynamically revolving harem. Right now she is a top 5. Maybe top 3 girl in that harem. I like her a lot. IMO $200-300 for a few nights, that already happened, is more than reasonable. We shall see how much more I will see her, and how I can further help with her tuition. BTW, thanks much to Horny American for staying on the subject, and approving my approach.
Also, as has been said here on the Forum, smart girls in Kiev do not like when money is spent elsewhere, they do watch monger expenses and react. For example, when I used to go to Rio with some of my GFs, they watched very attentively, and objected fiercely to any tips to dancers, literally hissing at them.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2301687]Ukraine doesn't have border with Bulgaria. It's a common misconception...[/QUOTE]And I thought you would be trapped. And answer me that you have already been there.
The fact is: $ 100 for a meeting is portrayed as ridiculous. Instead, a used iPhone 6 or 6's is proposed. But this is already available for $ 150. I already mentioned the source. Of course, there are phones of different qualities. But a Ukrainian knows the true value. So $ 150. Because top quality is not expected. But here a value of $ 200 to $ 300 was given for such a phone. That's not true. So the $ 150 for such a phone is closer to the $ 100. About which you laughed. Here you are still trying to save money. And $ 150 is still not $ 300. Which were proposed for a meeting "in 2019".
In addition: A used telephone can break. What do you do when the phone stops working a month later? Total loss. The girl will be upset. But you would like to continue to meet the girl. What does the plan look like? Will you give $ 300 for the last meeting? And take the phone back? Or $ 100 or $ 150 or $ 200? A new phone is being repaired by the store. Minimum: A used, no longer functioning phone will cause costs. About that the girl will be annoying. Even if a repair costs only 500 UAH.
Such a problem can affect the good relationship. A very simple girl from the country can be impressed. But a girl from Kiev? In no way. Or do you go to a second-hand clothes shop with your girls?
[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2301950]And I thought you would be trapped. And answer me that you have already been there.[/QUOTE]As Arnold Schwarzenegger said in "Commando" if I am not mistaken:
- You forgot to say "please".
Yes I have been to the border with Romania, as already has been stated. Doesn't make me more important.
[QUOTE]A used telephone can break.[/QUOTE]Everything breaks eventually. Girl may drop and break glass on new iPhone XS, and that would cost much more to fix than buying a phone at Radio Rynok. And all of it is not my problem.
That iPhone5 that I gave away is still working. Surrogate mother-in-law is very happy. When it breaks, she'll throw it away. It was free, no money transaction executed. She has separate working Droid phone. Same with the girl in question.
Yes these are LTRs, but I am not obligated. If I am around, I'll help fixing it. If I still like and trust the girl, I may even transfer her funds remotely using Ukrainian banking system, but I very rarely do that. Prefer to give money face-to-face, and get a DFK with continuation in return.
[QUOTE]Such a problem can affect the good relationship. A very simple girl from the country can be impressed. But a girl from Kiev? In no way. Or do you go to a second-hand clothes shop with your girls?[/QUOTE]I do not go to any clothes shops with my girls. And I don't care if they go to second hand on their own with the money I give them. In fact, I prefer them without any clothes.
This particular girl is not from Kiev, certainly is not simple, and is not demanding. We enjoy each other company and together with or without money transactions. That is why it is LTR. Most of my contacts aren't from Kiev originally, with rare exceptions, but they reside in the Capitol now. More convenient for everybody.
I do not pay much attention to origin or pedigree. Young Ukrainian ladies quite often impress with their IQ and how mature they are, how developed mentally, regardless of where they are from. I do not believe you think of a country girl, or a simple girl as a somebody not good enough. I like them all. Simple and sophisticated.
This girl instead of playing a lottery with a random seller at Radio Rynok trusts that my used phone will work for another couple years. I most likely will not be around when the time comes to replace it with the new phone. Only a handful of girls stay with me longer than 3-5 years. Some get married, get a job, some change too much, or simply disappear without a notice. Normal process of evolution. There's enough fish in the see.
Apparently you and I have different perception of reality, and that is perfectly fine. As one wise person said here on the Forum:
- The World would be a boring place, if everybody was exactly the same.
You are entitled to have your opinion. IMHO we are getting into too much detail discussing very simple matter. I already got my answers from Horny American in a very concise form.
[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2301950]And I thought you would be trapped. And answer me that you have already been there.[/QUOTE]I thought we are here on the Forum to help each other, not to trap.
BTW, do you know a reliable repair shop to replace an iPhone battery in Kiev?
That part of Ukraine is very interesting indeed. It still has the Turkish name "Budzhak", meaning the corner, or maybe even a nook. A mix of Romanian / Moldavian, Ukrainian, Russian, Jewish and even some leftovers from Mongolian invasion back in XIII century. Girls are beautiful though!
I wouldn't recommend anybody going there for mongering unless you have strong connections. I went with yet another 20 years old, who now is in Kiev. Memories make the life worth living.
[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2301950]And I thought you would be trapped. And answer me that you have already been there.
The fact is: $ 100 for a meeting is portrayed as ridiculous. Instead, a used iPhone 6 or 6's is proposed. But this is already available for $ 150. I already mentioned the source. Of course, there are phones of different qualities. But a Ukrainian knows the true value. So $ 150. Because top quality is not expected. But here a value of $ 200 to $ 300 was given for such a phone. That's not true. So the $ 150 for such a phone is closer to the $ 100. About which you laughed. Here you are still trying to save money. And $ 150 is still not $ 300. Which were proposed for a meeting "in 2019".[/QUOTE]Misterxxx,
You are wasting you time with this guy. He just likes to argue, he refuse to admit he is wrong and refuses to see the other side of anything. Sometimes I wonder if he is even goes to Kiev, the place that I use to love, but everyone has to admit to the decline, but he refuses. He is good at calling escorts and yelling at the operator. I have said, this before he has no regard for Newbies when he makes crazy statements.
Here is an example of some of the latest:
1. Kiev is better then 10 years ago.
2. I can have 3 9's in weekend.
3. Send guys to clubs that are empty and have been empty for years.
4. Refers guys to GIA.
5. Thinks it is funny when girls ask for money.
6. Does not bother him about the bait / switch.
Listen Kiev is good if you can find girls for less then $150 for multiple hours, but anything more is a complete rip off to bang 6's or lower.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2302099]I thought we are here on the Forum to help each other, not to trap.
BTW, do you know a reliable repair shop to replace an iPhone battery in Kiev?
That part of Ukraine is very interesting indeed. It still has the Turkish name "Budzhak", meaning the corner, or maybe even a nook. A mix of Romanian / Moldavian, Ukrainian, Russian, Jewish and even some leftovers from Mongolian invasion back in XIII century. Girls are beautiful though!
I wouldn't recommend anybody going there for mongering unless you have strong connections. I went with yet another 20 years old, who now is in Kiev. Memories make the life worth living.[/QUOTE]Yes, you dudes, please stop hiting and jelling at each other! That can be done in the "fuck shit Kiev" forum!
Here we go for fights and aggressive discussions - http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kiev
Let's keep silent and peasful here in this forum
[QUOTE=MichiT;2303519]Yes, you dudes, please stop hiting and jelling at each other! That can be done in the "fuck shit Kiev" forum!
Here we go for fights and aggressive discussions - http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kiev
Let's keep silent and peasful here in this forum[/QUOTE]Great point! You and others give great pointers and I give you credit because you meet girls on the street and in real life. Other continue to fabricate and exaggerate about Kiev. They want to keep this illusion alive of Kiev, of 10-20 years ago. They continue to double and triple down or there point of views. The refuse to listen to facts and they use these ridiculous formulas to try and prove there point. If this would stop I would stop posting. I just do not want to see a newbies get screwed over in Kiev and that real possibility. This is the only reason I post on Kiev page.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2303320]Funny thing about game in the P4P world is we all employ it one way or another without thinking about it too much. In fact, it is directly or indirectly the SUBJECT of most questions and answers about the P4P scene on these boards:
If you refuse to Pay Upfront, that's game.
If you show up at clubs when they are closing on the assumption the girls left over will be more needy, that's game.
If you show up at places like Thermae in Bkk on the 31st of the month, the night before rent is due and you are especially fond of doing it on rainy nights, that's game.
If you walk into a club smiling when in fact you really aren't thinking of anything particularly humorous, that's game.[/QUOTE]Now I disagree with this almost entirely. Then again the definition of "game" may be different to everyone. Maybe. OK, well no. Having game is not refusing upfront payment or smiling in a club. Do you really want to issue points for just showing up?
Having game is just 1 aspect. It is not the aspect. If a girl has already decided condoms only and no A+, nothing will change that. For other girls, it may be something as simple as a guy having a small cock. Other times, it may be money. It can also be if a guy is nice or had some "game". For you to spend some time trying to prop up "having game" while shooting down -money- and throwing Monkey Paw as your 1 and only example is just plain wrong. Even you know it comes down to many factors. Instead you'd rather prop up your ego. LMFAO.
You. Bring up 2's (why would you even bring this up? Do you like to bring up extreme examples?) and call it my standard. Why? I never mentioned my standard. I'm a tech guy from California. And guess what. Having lots of money gets a lot of 8+. But I'm also realistic. Must of the time in the negotiation, the girl will ask for more money for other services. And that right there tells you what the motivation is. What else would it be?
Convincing a girl to do something in the P4P world doesn't take a lot of "game". These girls have heard it all before. It's a roll of a dice finding one who is sexually open than anything. This forum is also filled with rants about bad service because. Starfish. Do you blame the guy's game here?
I suppose the question is. Just how much a guy's ego needs to be fed while also getting laid. That's the real argument here.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2303539]Great point! You and others give great pointers and I give you credit because you meet girls on the street and in real life. Other continue to fabricate and exaggerate about Kiev. They want to keep this illusion alive of Kiev, of 10-20 years ago. They continue to double and triple down or there point of views. The refuse to listen to facts and they use these ridiculous formulas to try and prove there point. If this would stop I would stop posting. I just do not want to see a newbies get screwed over in Kiev and that real possibility. This is the only reason I post on Kiev page.[/QUOTE]You haven't been to Kiev in more than three years. You must be the mongering Mother Theresa. You care so much about others. I'm calling BS. You just like attention and to get under people's skin. Kudos to you for doing a great job at achieving your goal.
I can go anywhere I want in the summer for my main yearly vacation and I'll Be back to Kiev for the fourth year in a row. Anyone can see from my post history that I post truthful reports and have visited most of the top mongering spots. So why would I continue to come back? I never even experienced the "glory days" of Kiev as my first trip was six years ago. For me this is the best spot for young attractive semi pros who give GFE experience.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2304241]You haven't been to Kiev in more than three years. You must be the mongering Mother Theresa. You care so much about others. I'm calling BS. You just like attention and to get under people's skin. Kudos to you for doing a great job at achieving your goal.
I can go anywhere I want in the summer for my main yearly vacation and I'll Be back to Kiev for the fourth year in a row. Anyone can see from my post history that I post truthful reports and have visited most of the top mongering spots. So why would I continue to come back? I never even experienced the "glory days" of Kiev as my first trip was six years ago. For me this is the best spot for young attractive semi pros who give GFE experience.[/QUOTE]Great report as always. I am not the one asking for referrals and giving out bad or inaccurate information. I have forgotten more about Kiev then you or your partner in Kiev will ever know. I do not need attention, read my review of other destinations I travel too, I never ask for referrals. Also, you constantly complain about my reports, the truth I am in a major Mongering Destination every 10-14 days and actually write reviews. I was banging hot Ukraine Girls in Moscow, way better looking then the girls I was meeting in Kiev. I tell guys where they can get 7's and above for the same price you guys are paying for 5's and 6's in Kiev. There is actually a night life where I go, you guys tell guys to go to a place with zero night life and empty Bars / Discos. Wait I forgot you could not get into Famous, interesting, myself and my friends had VIP access there, what shock. If you think there is Hot girls there you are in complete denial, just normal girls dressed up.
You are telling guys to go to average Destination at best, I telling guys to strive for more, much better destinations, for the same price. Keep up the positive attitude, and the great information.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2304241]I can go anywhere I want in the summer for my main yearly vacation and I'll Be back to Kiev for the fourth year in a row. Anyone can see from my post history that I post truthful reports and have visited most of the top mongering spots. So why would I continue to come back? I never even experienced the "glory days" of Kiev as my first trip was six years ago. For me this is the best spot for young attractive semi pros who give GFE experience.[/QUOTE]Admit it, Rog123, just like me, you are hopelessly addicted to this City. Easy to be, as per my subjective perception it is one of the best in the whole world.
I travel to Kiev since 1986. Regularly since 2003 with increasing frequency for longer and longer stays with every year passing. Found quite a few allies on this Forum and made friends on Viber and IRL in Kiev.
I have been to River Palace, Mandarin, Restown, and other places that do not exist anymore. One of all-time favorite girls I found at River Palace the night before departure to the airport. Yes, that wonderful place is gone, the whole City is different, but new faces and hot spots are emerging relentlessly.
Firmly addicted to young Ukrainian ladies myself, I spoke to five of them over different messengers today after being away from Kiev for almost four months now. Despite the challenges, overall I am definitely not on the losing side, and have no desire to change. Love Kiev, and it surely shows. To be continued.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2304366]Admit it, Rog123, just like me, you are hopelessly addicted to this City. Easy to be, as per my subjective perception it is one of the best in the whole world.
I travel to Kiev since 1986. Regularly since 2003 with increasing frequency for longer and longer stays with every year passing. Found quite a few allies on this Forum and made friends on Viber and IRL in Kiev.
I have been to River Palace, Mandarin, Restown, and other places that do not exist anymore. One of all-time favorite girls I found at River Palace the night before departure to the airport. Yes, that wonderful place is gone, the whole City is different, but new faces and hot spots are emerging relentlessly.
Firmly addicted to young Ukrainian ladies myself, I spoke to five of them over different messengers today after being away from Kiev for almost four months now. Despite the challenges, overall I am definitely not on the losing side, and have no desire to change. Love Kiev, and it surely shows. To be continued.[/QUOTE]Yes, my friend. You right. I like your style and your optimism. Our life is too short to be pessimistic. I agree with you in almost all the key points of this topic. Yes. That is, you will never experience such sensations and sexual emotions in Kiev or Kharkov, as in Thailand, but in Thailand you will not get those rare moments of pleasure in Ukraine. Kiev cannot give you so many Asian hot bodies and Asian pussies working. Who work from morning to evening. It's just mass prostitution. Rural population and girls from small Thai towns go to prostitution en masse. It has become a folk tradition. This is just a job. Asian job. You just have to understand that Kiev can never be the second,white, Bangkok, not because Kiev is very rich and rich and Ukraine is a prosperous country. Not. Not because. Ukraine is a poor country. A lot of poverty. This is just a different mentality. Experienced guys, veterans of Kiev hunting from Canada and The United States, has long written about this there. . Never hundreds and thousands of beautiful golden-haired Ukrainian women and girls will not take to the streets in Pattaya and will not laugh. Ukraine is Europe. You can fuck this beautiful 19 year old female student in your rented apartment in the center of Kiev. You can splash her face with sperm if you like it. Or persuade her to CIM if she need more money. Or anal sex. Such a girl as in this photo. I like this Russian or Ukrainian home porn. The guy and the girl in the poor apartment. You can also fuck such a girl in Ukraine. Now it's harder than in 2004 . Yes. Before these girls were ready for anything in bed. And Kiev hotels and apartments were trembling with sounds and screams. These times are gone forever. And the fuck of some little bald lawyer or doctor from Canada, they licked like the most delicious ice cream. It was like the discovery of america by Columbus. And these times are gone. We all remember these times. These tall girls with radiant skin in high heels. Along with some kind of real estate agent from Sweden or Denmark. Their tight Ukrainian narrow pussies and hot mouths made happy in bed not one and not two western not the most successful guys. These girls were like models. How much western sperm is left at that time in Kiev. You could probably create an artificial lake near Kiev from this sperm. But all good things never last too long. Exhausted by aggressive feminism and ugly harmful Western women, a Western man seemed to have fallen into some sort of oriental tale. In the West, a lot of money, and feminism, and a lot of unhappy single men. And a lot of sperm in the testicles. And in Ukraine, poverty, and many hot beautiful tight pussies and skillful mouths. And a little feminism. Now it is a little more in Ukraine than in those glorious times. It was a great combination. And what is also important. It was white European pussies. Not Asian workhorses. Like an erotic dream during teenage pollution. But all good things never last too long.
The UA girls were also happy. Then. In 2004 . When they abolished the visa regime. It did Yushchenko. Here they are foreigners. Now they don't need a visa. Now you don't need to become a sex slave in a Turkish brothel on the outskirts of Istanbul. You don't need to risk it. You don't need to go to it is unknown to then buy a Gucci handbag or expensive underwear. This can be obtained without risk to life and health. Because thousands and foreigners came to Kiev and then to Kharkov. And now any tall beautiful student can buy good shoes for herself or cosmetics. You just need to work a little with your pussy and mouth. In the room a hotel or a rented apartment. Without the risk of being sold into slavery. And here they are, beautiful panties from a fashionable boutique. Or shoes. And your boyfriend still does not know anything. You just need to take off your panties and stand a little in the pose of a dog in a rented apartment. And work with your tongue and mouth. You don't need to change your life and become a prostitute. And in the evening you go with your favorite boyfriend in a cafe or cinema. New expensive panties bought in a boutique yesterday cover up your pussy. Everyone is happy. A doctor or teacher from Finland is happy. You are happy. And your boyfriend is also happy. He knows nothing. And you do not need to go to the Turkish brothel. But these days are gone. But does this mean that Kiev has died forever? No. Ukraine will still be the poorest country in Europe for a long time. It will always be something like European mexico. And Russia will never let Ukraine go. Russia will always create problems and never allow Ukraine to become a rich European country. Which means tight pussies and hot skillful mouths will be for a long time. It just won't be as easy as before. There will be more courage. More activity. You will need to travel more often to Ukraine. To be open and sociable. That is, Ukraine should become for you something like a native country. You need more effort. If you do not have free time, then of course Asia or Colombia is better.
P.S.
(these photos are from home Russian or Ukrainian porn. In Ukraine and Russia there are really a lot of beautiful girls. Probably this combination of different blood and peoples. Nomads. Slavs. Wikings. This is a cocktail. So many beautiful women. .)
[QUOTE=Tomek123;2305368]Yes, my friend. You right. I like your style and your optimism. Our life is too short to be pessimistic. I agree with you in almost all the key points of this topic. Yes. That is, you will never experience such sensations and sexual emotions in Kiev or Kharkov, as in Thailand, but in Thailand you will not get those rare moments of pleasure in Ukraine. Kiev cannot give you so many Asian hot bodies and Asian pussies working. Who work from morning to evening. It's just mass prostitution. Rural population and girls from small Thai towns go to prostitution en masse. It has become a folk tradition. This is just a job. Asian job. You just have to understand that Kiev can never be the second,white, Bangkok, not because Kiev is very rich and rich and Ukraine is a prosperous country. Not. Not because. Ukraine is a poor country. A lot of poverty. This is just a different mentality. Experienced guys, veterans of Kiev hunting from Canada and The United States, has long written about this there. . Never hundreds and thousands of beautiful golden-haired Ukrainian women and girls will not take to the streets in Pattaya and will not laugh. Ukraine is Europe. You can fuck this beautiful 19 year old female student in your rented apartment in the center of Kiev. You can splash her face with sperm if you like it. Or persuade her to CIM if she need more money. Or anal sex. Such a girl as in this photo. I like this Russian or Ukrainian home porn. The guy and the girl in the poor apartment. You can also fuck such a girl in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Awesome report, great summary.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2305429]Awesome report, great summary.[/QUOTE]Thanks.
Beautiful photo. Ukrainian students. They are like an illustration for my thoughts and conclusions. They seem to say-guys. Do come from Canada and the USA. From Finland and Denmark. Do not behave like in Thailand. We are decent girls and we each have a boyfriend. So everything must be secret. We are not working girls. Everything should be like friendship. And a little romantic. Without excessive pedantry. This is one of the main mistakes of the western guys. They do not always know how to convince a Ukrainian girl that she is not a ****. These guys often do the opposite the girl felt that she was a working girl. These guys just do not understand this mentality and Slavic psychology. Everything should be a little clothed in the form of tender friendship and cooperation. Because the main value of Bangkok is the iron hot Asian working pussy. These Asian pussies work like pumps. From morning till evening. These are iron professionals. Connoisseurs of their business. This is a conveyor. But the biggest value of Kiev and Ukraine is beautiful simple girls who often have guys. And want to get married. These are non-professionals or temporary professionals. For example, a girl came from the province to find a groom in Kiev. And she needs to pay for an apartment. It is just a temporary stage in her life. She is not a prostitute in her psychological basis. Or she wants to buy beautiful clothes. Accessories and fashionable expensive shoes. Then she will probably find a Kiev Ukrainian guy and in a year they will get married. But while she looks at the windows of expensive boutiques with anguish. It is necessary that a 45 year old teacher from Finland or an engineer from England and this beautiful lady can meet. While this girl really wants this shoe from a boutique. And if the parties reach a compromise and this guy will not make blunders in 1-2 days unhappy elderly neighbors in the center of Kiev will hear behind the wall how a humble teacher from Helsinki turns into a lustful monster. Furious creak of the sofa and slaps on the beautiful ass.
The sound in the phone will be temporarily turned off so that boyfriend Sergey does not interfere with the girl in the process. And bestial male growl -yes. Yes. Well. Do you like. Oksana, get. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasss. Ochhhh. Yeeeee. The main thing is that this Finnish bald guy does not have problems with the cardiovascular system. Tight pussy is always acute stress. Then unfortunate Ukrainian neighbors will hear the sound of water in the shower. And then women's laughter. And then they will hear the sound of heels and see how some sort of charming creature in a short skirt came out of their house and went down spring street. This is Oksana. She took a shower after having sex with a Finnish physics teacher and now goes to the boutique to buy beautiful elegant fashion panties. She wants to put these panties on in three days. When she has a meeting with Sergey.
[QUOTE=Tomek123;2305368]Yes, my friend. You right. I like your style and your optimism. Our life is too short to be pessimistic. I agree with you in almost all the key points of this topic.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your kind words.
[QUOTE]And these times are gone. We all remember these times. But all good things never last too long.[/QUOTE]And many new things come in the place of those old: for example, Viber and Instagram didn't exist during River Palace times.
[QUOTE]tight pussies and hot skillful mouths will be for a long time. It just won't be as easy as before. There will be more courage. More activity. You will need to travel more often to Ukraine. To be open and sociable. That is, Ukraine should become for you something like a native country. You need more effort. If you do not have free time, then of course Asia or Colombia is better.[/QUOTE]Exactly.
Difficult doesn't mean bad. Ukrainian girls are not obligated to serve whoever comes to Kiev for 3 days. They have multiple options nowadays:
1. That girl Oksana may say: "Fuck it! I don't want this pathetic loser, who is trying to get into my panties for 1500 UAH, I need more, and I can do better. My roommates Nastya and Elena certainly do better than that".
2. Or travel to Europe, Turkey, Dubai where expenses are higher but Ukrainian girls feel more confident, as there's an illusion of less competition. Or maybe competition is less qualified in marketing and delivering commodities.
3. Or establish a good network of trustworthy customers through the abundance of totally new platforms, that never existed even 3 years ago. Then transform into an indie and milk those customers regularly while young ass is still firm and breasts are perking up.
For business savvy girls the objective is to make enough money to buy an apartment in about 10-15 years on the market (from 18-21 until 28-35). There aren't enough oligarchs and rich sponsors for all the girls on the market in Kiev.
Married or not married, doesn't matter much. Exclusive discreet agencies and personal contacts assembled over time allow semi-monogamous Ukrainian ladies to make supplemental income on a side. And that is not considered prostitution. Those male contributors are friends, lovers, admirers and everything else.
Hunting in the strip or night club is a waste of time. Pros are expensive and digital (insincere). Decent (analog) girls can be found in the street, around Universities, or simply on Instagram, or even better through existing connections, same as where one would find a good girl deserving his time, money and attention. I am not going to marry those girls, but search criteria is the same.
Easy or difficult depends on visitor coming to Kiev. Tables have turned. We used to go to River Palace to pick from what market was offering. Now girls stay home and do their hunting remotely via messenger.
Insisting on doing it your foreigner's way through nightlife and shit, - is an exercise in stupidity. Kiev will surely take your hard earned cash at Arena City, Rio and Scarlette, giving not much in return. To enjoy Kiev to full extent you have to belong. I experienced a paradigm shift and 180 degrees change in girls attitude after staying in Kiev for 8 weeks last fall / winter.
Tomek is right, if you have no time then better go to German FKK or Thailand. Girls in Kiev understand business real well, as it is Charles Darwin's survival of the fittest forcing to learn fast. They want local natives, or expats, or regular visitors. STR means KEC / GIA, and even there customers complain about service quality. Same reasons as explained above.
And as tough as it seems, after I understood the fundamentals and settled my own principles, I do not know any better place, where I do not need a visa, and can be happy, satisfied and content over 90% of my time.
Brazil is great, need a visa.
Moscow is being advertised. It is substantially more expensive, need a visa, and I consider myself Ukrainian. Do not want to visit a country that started a war against mine, killed so many thousands and forced to relocate many many more. Advertising Moscow on Kiev Forum IMHO is not only inconsiderate and obnoxious, it shouldn't be tolerated.
I didn't realise there was any comedians in Ukraine.
[QUOTE=MagicSheep74;2311641]I didn't realize there was any comedians in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]More important subject: Would there be a change to visa-free travel for Ukrainian girls (unlikely), or anything that affects our hobby?
I found the story about the Russian glam scammer in NY very interesting. If these rich kids would have known she was Russian, they would have been more cautious.
What happened to the old fashion Russian gold digger from twenty years ago? Yeah, they wanted to elevate themselves quickly in society but at least they saw a future together with their target. I can't recall one scam experience back in my day with Russians. Worse case was they would leave you if they found a better man. Now with social media, it's all about what they can extract from different people.
It seems that my GF got some sort of mental issues and cannot stop cursing and shouting at me when she's in bad mood. It not only happens right before her period but also happens a lot at other time of the month. At first I thought she was doing this on purpose to make me buy her something to please her or just to avoid having sex with me, but later found this is not the case. She doesn't only do this to me but also to her sister on telephone conversations. I really think she has got some mental issues. She hasnt even asked me for money for quite a long time.
I hate it when being insulted or shouted at for no reason. I've been told that mental issues are quite common among ukrainian ladies. Any ideas how to deal with these girls? Are there any recommended medications available in local pharmacies?
[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2330043]It seems that my GF got some sort of mental issues and cannot stop cursing and shouting at me when she's in bad mood. It not only happens right before her period but also happens a lot at other time of the month. At first I thought she was doing this on purpose to make me buy her something to please her or just to avoid having sex with me, but later found this is not the case. She doesn't only do this to me but also to her sister on telephone conversations. I really think she has got some mental issues. She hasnt even asked me for money for quite a long time.
I hate it when being insulted or shouted at for no reason. I've been told that mental issues are quite common among ukrainian ladies. Any ideas how to deal with these girls? Are there any recommended medications available in local pharmacies?[/QUOTE]You need to be the man in the relationship and tell her to stop shouting. You cannot let a woman be the one in control. She will not have respect for you.
I have dated a dozen Ukrainians and there has been nothing close to this. If anything they are much more relaxed than Western girls and usually hide their feelings. You put your dick in crazy as they say. Do not be scared to walk away. You will forget about her once you find another girl.
The question is "are you crazy?" Why are you putting up with this shit?
[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2330043]It seems that my GF got some sort of mental issues and cannot stop cursing and shouting at me when she's in bad mood. It not only happens right before her period but also happens a lot at other time of the month. At first I thought she was doing this on purpose to make me buy her something to please her or just to avoid having sex with me, but later found this is not the case. She doesn't only do this to me but also to her sister on telephone conversations. I really think she has got some mental issues. She hasnt even asked me for money for quite a long time.
I hate it when being insulted or shouted at for no reason. I've been told that mental issues are quite common among ukrainian ladies. Any ideas how to deal with these girls? Are there any recommended medications available in local pharmacies?[/QUOTE]
Ok so there is a little anecdote off of tinder that can be used as a shareable moment, or even a teachable one.
So I matched with girl, we sent text, and before long that became chit chat through the day. This led to an agreement to meet over lunch. Here's where it goes to shit. She wants me to take her to this place, basically insists on it - [URL]https://g.co/kgs/4Uppdj[/URL] that's right, the jerk wanted me to take her to a 5 star restaurant on the water for our first meeting! Are you fucking kidding me!? But I'm willing to spot that there may be a culture gap and I don't want to insinuate intent across text so I tactfully reply, well, here's the chatlog:
Me: its a little more than what I wanted for lunch. It is also a little far down the way.
Me: can you meet me a little closer to independence square / maiden maybe?
Kristina: Take taxi.
Kristina: It's problem?
Me: not a problem, just a little uncomfortable to go that far for lunch. Is it a problem for me to pick a restaurant a little closer to independence square area?
Kristina: Well, since I give a piece of myself and this is a problem for you, I don't think that we need to meet at all.
Me: Wow. If this is a reflection of who you really are as a person, then I am glad we did not meet.
Ok totally duplicitous, dodged a bullet there, WHEW! But on a different level of thinking it makes me wonder what kind of a miserable bastard she must be on the inside, to think in that manipulative way. To approach a social site designed to meet new people with the conniving mindset to gain what? A lunch. Really?? She is then the same kind of person who throws her hands up to the sky and says "hasa diga eebowai" (look it up) when she finally has a moment of clarity, and looks around her to find that her life has become nothing but a sad sack of shit. For this kind of toxic person life is not too short, on the contrary, it is almost entirely too long. And I hope she lives forever hahaha.
[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2355244]
Kristina: Well, since I give a piece of myself and this is a problem for you, I don't think that we need to meet at all.
[/QUOTE]Classic golddigger line. It's always something to make the man feel guilty and cheap:
"I guess you can't afford the better things in life. ".
"So it's too expensive for you? You gave a different impression in your profile. I didn't realize you were poor. ".
"You have to excuse me, but I'm not a low class woman. I expect to be taken to nice places. ".
Lots of men, including me, naturally react to such taunts by wanting to prove we have money. Of course, I have the sense to recognize this reaction in myself and control it by just walking off. Other men swallow the bait and so the woman gets what she wants: an expensive dinner where she gets to treat the man with contempt the whole time. Women like this are often angry at other men for pumping and dumping or similar abuse, so now want revenge to make themselves feel better. Doesn't matter that the man she is revenging herself on is not the same as the one she is angry at.
Also, there are lots of men who actually want abuse like this from women. For example, there are men who feel helpless to control themselves sexually. By taking abuse, the man eventually comes to associate women with pain, and so his sexuality no longer controls him so much. Or something like that.
Goldiggers should be treated like mosquitoes, delayed flights, broken computers and all the other myriad hassles a man has to deal with in life. Stay calm, navigate around the obstacle, move on.
[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2355244]...Me: Wow. If this is a reflection of who you really are as a person, then I am glad we did not meet...[/QUOTE]What a great line! Respect.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2355254]...Goldiggers should be treated like mosquitoes, delayed flights, broken computers and all the other myriad hassles a man has to deal with in life. Stay calm, navigate around the obstacle, move on...[/QUOTE]Why both of the above reports are in Stupid Shit section? Pure wisdom, no less.
Had some dates on Tinder I met a lady here for dinner. Polyuvannya Na Ovets it's like an Asian / steak restaurant. Yup you guessed it 5 star. Had to take an Uber there of course. I liked the lady plus wanted to see a different part of Kiev. I guess it was old Kiev.
I notice a lot of these ladies on Tinder they want to go to Avalon for drinks. I might have to check that place out? Is it good place?
[QUOTE=SFNative;2359616]Had some dates on Tinder I met a lady here for dinner. Polyuvannya Na Ovets it's like an Asian / steak restaurant. Yup you guessed it 5 star. Had to take an Uber there of course. I liked the lady plus wanted to see a different part of Kiev. I guess it was old Kiev.
I notice a lot of these ladies on Tinder they want to go to Avalon for drinks. I might have to check that place out? Is it good place?[/QUOTE]Please explain your intentions.
I am sitting at Avalon this very moment and love it.
I have no intention to pick up anybody, and probably no chance, unless I do Tinder or Mamba or something. I am working on my laptop at the table, having great food and wine. Lots of eye candy at my vantage point.
Yes, Avalon is awesome. No it is not cheap. It may not fit your immediate needs.
Not only is Ukraine a damaged culture full of corruption, it's a brainless government. What the hell are they thinking with this whistle blower complaint against a very revengeful leader.
I plan to refocus on Russia.
[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2355244]Ok so there is a little anecdote off of tinder that can be used as a shareable moment, or even a teachable one.
So I matched with girl, we sent text, and before long that became chit chat through the day. This led to an agreement to meet over lunch. Here's where it goes to shit. She wants me to take her to this place, basically insists on it - [URL]https://g.co/kgs/4Uppdj[/URL] that's right, the jerk wanted me to take her to a 5 star restaurant on the water for our first meeting! Are you fucking kidding me!? But I'm willing to spot that there may be a culture gap and I don't want to insinuate intent across text so I tactfully reply, well, here's the chatlog:[/QUOTE]I didn't understand: did she wanted to go to Kanapa?
It's quite a good place; on Andriyivsky, really not so far from Maidan and quite in the center. And not so expensive IMHO. Not cheap as many restaurants in Kiev, but I think I'd go there for a first meeting.
[QUOTE=Arkiloko;2377239]I didn't understand: did she wanted to go to Kanapa?
It's quite a good place; on Andriyivsky, really not so far from Maidan and quite in the center. And not so expensive IMHO. Not cheap as many restaurants in Kiev, but I think I'd go there for a first meeting.[/QUOTE]Dude, the guys a foreigner. He would have been foolish to go there, even if the place is better then sliced bread. McCafe is perfectly fine.
After many, many experiences in Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Armenia, Georgia and other Eastern European countries, I made my final conclusion about Ukraine: Girls are 99 % cheap shit. Only interested in money. They want to make a child, then get divorced, of course keep the child and have the ex man paying. When they meet a foreigner, they mainly see a source of money. As long as he pays its all good. But they do not want to invest any single cents themselves. If the man rejects to pay for luxury (e. G. Not only a coffee, water or glass of wine. It must be a bottle of wine plus prosecco plus shrimps etc) then they call him sick and greedy. Fuck them! I never experienced such a shabby beaviour in Georgia or Armenia.
I will still go to Ukraine, maybe every once in a while, but only try to get as much sex from the girls. On the same time I am realistic now and know that a serious relationship with such a girl is hardly possible.
[QUOTE=MichiT;2382892]After many, many experiences in Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Armenia, Georgia and other Eastern European countries, I made my final conclusion about Ukraine: Girls are 99 % cheap shit. Only interested in money. They want to make a child, then get divorced, of course keep the child and have the ex man paying. When they meet a foreigner, they mainly see a source of money. As long as he pays its all good. But they do not want to invest any single cents themselves. If the man rejects to pay for luxury (e. G. Not only a coffee, water or glass of wine. It must be a bottle of wine plus prosecco plus shrimps etc) then they call him sick and greedy. Fuck them! I never experienced such a shabby beaviour in Georgia or Armenia.
I will still go to Ukraine, maybe every once in a while, but only try to get as much sex from the girls. On the same time I am realistic now and know that a serious relationship with such a girl is hardly possible.[/QUOTE]LOL. The grown up man getting freebies suddenly realizes how awful Ukrainians girls are. The country is a great place to become a child support victim. They undeniably good for fucking though.
[QUOTE=MichiT;2382892]After many, many experiences in Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Armenia, Georgia and other Eastern European countries, I made my final conclusion about Ukraine: Girls are 99 % cheap shit. Only interested in money. They want to make a child, then get divorced, of course keep the child and have the ex man paying. When they meet a foreigner, they mainly see a source of money. As long as he pays its all good. But they do not want to invest any single cents themselves. If the man rejects to pay for luxury (e. G. Not only a coffee, water or glass of wine. It must be a bottle of wine plus prosecco plus shrimps etc) then they call him sick and greedy. Fuck them! I never experienced such a shabby beaviour in Georgia or Armenia.
I will still go to Ukraine, maybe every once in a while, but only try to get as much sex from the girls. On the same time I am realistic now and know that a serious relationship with such a girl is hardly possible.[/QUOTE]Not sure, why this is a big surprise. I have been posting about this for 2 years. This is real Kiev.
[QUOTE=MichiT;2382892]After many, many experiences in Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Armenia, Georgia and other Eastern European countries, I made my final conclusion about Ukraine: Girls are 99 % cheap shit. Only interested in money. They want to make a child, then get divorced, of course keep the child and have the ex man paying. When they meet a foreigner, they mainly see a source of money. As long as he pays its all good. But they do not want to invest any single cents themselves. If the man rejects to pay for luxury (e. G. Not only a coffee, water or glass of wine. It must be a bottle of wine plus prosecco plus shrimps etc) then they call him sick and greedy. Fuck them! I never experienced such a shabby beaviour in Georgia or Armenia.
I will still go to Ukraine, maybe every once in a while, but only try to get as much sex from the girls. On the same time I am realistic now and know that a serious relationship with such a girl is hardly possible.[/QUOTE]You are absolutely right.
My sponsored girl would try anything to please you several days before the pay day, but starts her abusive and disrespectful behaviours right after the pay day. This is no way acceptable. Not for me. After terminating this sponsorship, I am considering turning my focus onto Russian far east, which is geographically closer to my current location. Will visit Vladivostok soon. I was told the city has plenty of hot chicks while not ruined by mass sex tourism. Going to check it out.
[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2386143]You are absolutely right.
My sponsored girl would try anything to please you several days before the pay day, but starts her abusive and disrespectful behaviours right after the pay day. This is no way acceptable. Not for me. After terminating this sponsorship, I am considering turning my focus onto Russian far east, which is geographically closer to my current location. Will visit Vladivostok soon. I was told the city has plenty of hot chicks while not ruined by mass sex tourism. Going to check it out.[/QUOTE]This is the reality Kiev. While couple of guys continue to keep this Fantasy World alive. One writes, zero reports and the other claims he is 8-10 almost every night. Crazy that they complain about my posts.
I am a regular on this forum and have spent months in Rio, Cuba and Pattaya. I have never ventured to any Eastern European destination. I have an urger to visit the Ukraine. I am over 45 and have a bit of chat and seem to get along okay with the ladies. I usually book an air BnB or a girl friendly hotel, but don't overspend on accommodation as usually stay at least a month. I used the usual dating sites in Rio and had some good success, also visited terms and some agency girls popped over a few times. I don't pay over the top prices for the girls, in all honesty I don't think you need too. I like visiting bars where there are some decent women, no violence, no massive grief from security guards. I like a place where there is somewhere to hang out during the day, a gym and maybe a shopping mall etc.
I basically need some direction, in my circumstances where would you go, where would you stay and what do you do at night. What dating sites are people using, or are there any clubs at night where it is possible to pick up non pros.
I appreciate probably everything is dotted around the forum already but I literally don't even know the areas of the country, let alone anything else. I only speak English and a bit of Portuguese, not a word of Ukranian, Russian or whatever it is that they actually speak. I am quite excited to take a trip over there but do need some wisdom.
Regards.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2387674], or are there any clubs at night where it is possible to pick up non pros.
[/QUOTE]If you're over 45, basically no.
Just get an apartment close to K street. Plenty of things to do for a month. Forget the civilians and grind through some hookers. It's the fastest way to socialize and possibly meet non pros.
[QUOTE=Riina;2387696]If you're over 45, basically no.
Just get an apartment close to K street. Plenty of things to do for a month. Forget the civilians and grind through some hookers. It's the fastest way to socialize and possibly meet non pros.[/QUOTE]Much obliged. What bars are active in the evening, anywhere specific.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388237]Much obliged. What bars are active in the evening, anywhere specific.[/QUOTE]Apologies, Is K street the actual name or is it short for a specific street in Kiev as I can't find a K street.
Cheers.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388241]Apologies, Is K street the actual name or is it short for a specific street in Kiev as I can't find a K street.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]Krechatik. The main street in central Kiev.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388241]Apologies, Is K street the actual name or is it short for a specific street in Kiev as I can't find a K street.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]He's talking about Khreschatyk Street the main avenue downtown.
If you are over 45 it's tough to hook up with younger women everywhere. But many women in Ukraine like older guys so probably easier to meet a younger civilian woman in Kiev than many other places.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388241]Apologies, Is K street the actual name or is it short for a specific street in Kiev as I can't find a K street.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]Khreshchatyk.
Your success at the bar depends on a number of factors. Looks, confidence, language, stars in the sky, weather report, your financial situation, how many times you've been to Kiev, how long do you stay, etc.
Action is not done in bars. Most is hidden. Online is the way today, unless you are young and charming)).
[QUOTE=Mombie75;2388318]Krechatik. The main street in central Kiev.[/QUOTE]Thanks gents.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2388380]Khreshchatyk.
Your success at the bar depends on a number of factors. Looks, confidence, language, stars in the sky, weather report, your financial situation, how many times you've been to Kiev, how long do you stay, etc.
Action is not done in bars. Most is hidden. Online is the way today, unless you are young and charming)).[/QUOTE]Its online for me then LOL.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388845]Its online for me then LOL.[/QUOTE]Have any of you guys who use the Ukraine, have also used Rio in Brazil. I would like to know how they compare to each other.
Cheers.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388847]Have any of you guys who use the Ukraine, have also used Rio in Brazil. I would like to know how they compare to each other.[/QUOTE]I have been to Rio de Janeiro, Brazil twice.
Kiev and Rio are two different beasts. There are no Termas in Kiev, and I had great fun in Terma Monte Carlo in Rio. The girl I had sex with, a young student, afterwards wanted to go to my hotel for overnight stay for free, and she was hot hot hot except I wasn't alone. There's also more crime in Rio.
Otherwise beauty of young ladies and attitudes in both cities are quite close. Love Rio, but Kiev is easier for me because I speak only rudimentary Portuguese, and am fluent in Russian.
There's an opinion that Sao Paolo is better for mongering than Rio.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388847]Have any of you guys who use the Ukraine, have also used Rio in Brazil. I would like to know how they compare to each other.
Cheers.[/QUOTE]Both Kiev / Rio are below average for different reasons. Moscow and Russia are great. If you are going to Brazil skip Rio, go San Paulo.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388847]Have any of you guys who use the Ukraine, have also used Rio in Brazil. I would like to know how they compare to each other.[/QUOTE]Ukraine is one of the many countries where US citizen, among many others, do not need a visa.
Russia, China, Afghanistan, Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Venezuela and others impose visa requirement. It should be obtained prior to arrival.
Brazil used to require visa, but AFAIK not anymore, beginning June 17,2019.
I did vacation twice in Rio, and both times left immensely happy. Rio is definitely more expensive than Kiev, even though Kiev is not cheap. Brazilian weather could be bad, crime is noticeable. But people, and girls in particular are the best. I could spend years there for sure. I do not go anymore because of valuable connections I established in Kiev over so many visits, and certainly because of language.
I also worked in Sao Paolo, and girls are just as great as in Rio. One bookstore employee was hitting on me while I was trying to buy a book.
I didn't hunt in Brazil outside of Termas, because of language limitations. I wish there were Termas in Kiev. I also didn't hunt in Brazil online, so cannot tell you what's going on in that respect.
If you are equally limited in communication, then lack of Termas in Kiev would dictate that Rio might be preferred. But visits to Termas are also hit and miss. I had 8 Terma girls in 5 days with 1 repeat. 1 of them gave me her Viber. 6 girls were outstanding. Unfortunately 2 in the end just went through the motions. Maybe because it was Tuesday. That didn't spoil my impression.
Again very bad and reckless advice. Rio is not safe at all, expensive and the girls are just not that attractive anymore. There much better and safer destinations.
I am sorry I will never understand P.S. Motives and advice.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2389802]Again very bad and reckless advice. Rio is not safe at all, expensive and the girls are just not that attractive anymore. There much better and safer destinations.
I am sorry I will never understand P.S. Motives and advice.[/QUOTE]Crazy statement of the year.
Yes, Rio only has 12 million people. Not one single pretty girl to be seen. Haha.
[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2390326]Crazy statement of the year.
Yes, Rio only has 12 million people. Not one single pretty girl to be seen. Haha.[/QUOTE]It is not good at all, unless you have incredibly low standards and you enjoy being a city with a incredibly high crime rate. Reckless is correct. Rio might have been good years ago, but now not at all. Very, very dangerous.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2390391]It is not good at all, unless you have incredibly low standards and you enjoy being a city with a incredibly high crime rate. Reckless is correct. Rio might have been good years ago, but now not at all. Very, very dangerous.[/QUOTE]I say the same thing when I have to go to America for work. It is pretty shocking.
[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2390666]I say the same thing when I have to go to America for work. It is pretty shocking.[/QUOTE]You are correct, can not disagree with that, but Rio violence is at the same level as most cities in the states. Good point.
[QUOTE=Dave1111;2388237]Much obliged. What bars are active in the evening, anywhere specific.[/QUOTE]IMHO if you don't speak the language, it will be futile to try communicating in a loud crowded environment. Also bear in mind, your social competition might be fluent in the local language and he is also going to be an option for the ladies there. The most frequently recommended bars are "arena" and "caribbean. " I do not recommend either. Anywhere that is too big, too loud, has too many people, and has too high a turnover rate, is going to be counterproductive. That goes for many speakeasies as well. And of course as with anything, there are exceptions to the rule from time to time, but that is nothing to count on.
For me, the smaller and cozier the bar, the better. Anywhere a handful of people will come to have a few quiet well made drinks and intelligent exchange is your best chance. It draws the kind of people who have the mental focus to hold a conversation, in an environment conducive enough to have one. And this goes for working girls who are serious about working. Think about it from her point of view too. Whats she most likely to find in a popular club? A drunken stinking gopnik with 200 uah left in his pocket. Whats she going to find in a more contemplative setting? A well put together gentlemen who has about ten times that, and at least the quietude to use a translator app if need be. Which would you rather do business with?
To the rest of the board. Between the reports, living life, returning, and getting back to work, I got overwhelmed.
I know its been 2 months since I returned, and I got a LOT of catching up to do, but I promise I will.
[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2393993]I know its been 2 months since I returned, and I got a LOT of catching up to do, but I promise I will.[/QUOTE]Did you find any hookers. If yes, where and how much did you pay?
[QUOTE=Riina;2394153]Did you find any hookers. If yes, where and how much did you pay?[/QUOTE]Sorry my friend, I am guilty of gross untimeliness. I offer no excuses, only deep and sincere apology.
To answer this question, yes I found hookers. Where and how much I will get into when I start uploading the reports, which I will, it's just that there's 17 of them. It was like an avalanche hehe. I won't be able to put dates to them at this point though, sorry.
As for an earlier question you posted to me on the Kiev board "How long did it take in Kiev before you realized the scene was mostly leftovers?" I figured it might be that before I ever went to Kiev! This has been a global condition for close to 15 years now. Whether or not its worth it to you, is a personal thing.
[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2395267]...To answer this question, yes I found hookers. Where and how much I will get into when I start uploading the reports, which I will, it's just that there's 17 of them....[/QUOTE]17 reports on 17 girls, or something different?
Already put popcorn in my microwave and am awaiting.
You guys need to read 20 pages on the see. Club before booking your flight Kiev. It real is not a very good option. Unfortunately your choices are very limited, during the week, slightly better on Weekends. You best option just call escorts and meet girls on the street.
You guys ever watch the vlogger Coach Red Pill? I find the dude particularly interesting, although he is a con man. He lives in Ukraine with a wife 25 years younger. Here's what he never tells you. His relationship has zero loyalty. If his wife can lock on to his finances without him, he's out the door and he knows it. Red Pill never points out that he's a man with the financial security to walk away from work. I think he's from California. Ever notice a lot of mongers are from California? The one state guaranteeing your financial security if you simply bought a house and completely enriching you if you bought real estate. I think he mentioned his father once talking about monopoly and how to buy properties.
I believe you can find whatever you want in Ukraine. The caveat is no loyalty and you better have a deep wallet.
I use to think that Ukraine was a waste of time for young guys. I can't help but notice 20 somethings with meaningless work and terrible girl options. I really wanted to tell a dude the other day that his girlfriend is a real skank. Assuming you have some family money, get yourself out there and find a girl. Kiev is already swamped with 30 something rich kids that realized they were spinning their wheels in the West.
[QUOTE=Riina;2415890]I use to think that Ukraine was a waste of time for young guys. I can't help but notice 20 somethings with meaningless work and terrible girl options. I really wanted to tell a dude the other day that his girlfriend is a real skank. Assuming you have some family money, get yourself out there and find a girl. Kiev is already swamped with 30 something rich kids that realized they were spinning their wheels in the West.[/QUOTE]Great point. There is way more people then you think that have money in Kiev and a tremendous amount of weekend money in Kiev. Ygere Are so many Middle Eastern dudes that live there or travel in for the weekends, and many are young, another under reported fact.
Beautiful girls in Kiev have many options now:
1. Hook up with a rich local guy.
2. Travel to other countries.
3. Sponsorship.
Very easy for the truly beautiful girls. 5/6's not so easy, but that is what you will end up with most likely in Kiev. Do not believe the guys claiming they are with multiple high end girls in Kiev, simply not possible, even for locals. Good luck.
I agree with you about your warning about Ukraine. Here in Russia is not very different.
About CRP vlogger: he is not from California. As far as I know, he is Chilean. But like many immigrants he got his American citizenship after many years living in the US (mostly California). He used to be a writer. And even managed to have some books published.
I agree to many of his points when he is talking about the reality of life, specially when he talks about finances / jobs.
He is what some call "red pilled" coach or MGTOW coach. These movements are interesting, but sometimes too radical when they talk about "Abstinence", many of them are traumatized from their past relationships / marriages and now have a, well, let's say kind of hate towards woman. This is not for me. Call me a sucker if you want, but I still love women.
Back to Mr. CRP: Some of his advises are good, but some are contradictory. One of the contradictions is that he for example is pro Conservatism / right wing (or at least he was some time ago, I don't follow him anymore, so I can't say for sure now), so, he as a former immigrant himself a Trump supporter? And now he is immigrant once again in Ukraine, so what the heck?
Second, in some videos basically says very often that 99% of women are not worth it. But again he is "happily" married and has children.
But compared to the "black pill" or "honk pill" guys, he is just a normal joe next door.
[QUOTE=Riina;2412386]You guys ever watch the vlogger Coach Red Pill? I find the dude particularly interesting, although he is a con man. He lives in Ukraine with a wife 25 years younger. Here's what he never tells you. His relationship has zero loyalty. If his wife can lock on to his finances without him, he's out the door and he knows it. Red Pill never points out that he's a man with the financial security to walk away from work. I think he's from California. Ever notice a lot of mongers are from California? The one state guaranteeing your financial security if you simply bought a house and completely enriching you if you bought real estate. I think he mentioned his father once talking about monopoly and how to buy properties.
I believe you can find whatever you want in Ukraine. The caveat is no loyalty and you better have a deep wallet.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2416061]Great point. There is way more people then you think that have money in Kiev and a tremendous amount of weekend money in Kiev. Ygere Are so many Middle Eastern dudes that live there or travel in for the weekends, and many are young, another under reported fact.
Beautiful girls in Kiev have many options now:
1. Hook up with a rich local guy.
2. Travel to other countries.
3. Sponsorship.
Very easy for the truly beautiful girls. 5/6's not so easy, but that is what you will end up with most likely in Kiev. Do not believe the guys claiming they are with multiple high end girls in Kiev, simply not possible, even for locals. Good luck.[/QUOTE]It's totally understandable why you can't get laid in Ukraine. From your posting here you seem like a woman hater they are nothing but a number to you. That doesn't mean others can't have success.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2416061]Great point. There is way more people then you think that have money in Kiev and a tremendous amount of weekend money in Kiev. Ygere Are so many Middle Eastern dudes that live there or travel in for the weekends, and many are young, another under reported fact.
Beautiful girls in Kiev have many options now:
1. Hook up with a rich local guy.
2. Travel to other countries.
3. Sponsorship.
Very easy for the truly beautiful girls. 5/6's not so easy, but that is what you will end up with most likely in Kiev. Do not believe the guys claiming they are with multiple high end girls in Kiev, simply not possible, even for locals. Good luck.[/QUOTE]When your Ukrainian Ex from the dating site dumped you, and she said "it's not you, it's me", she lied. It was you.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2416061]Great point. There is way more people then you think that have money in Kiev and a tremendous amount of weekend money in Kiev. Ygere Are so many Middle Eastern dudes that live there or travel in for the weekends, and many are young, another under reported fact.
Beautiful girls in Kiev have many options now:
1. Hook up with a rich local guy.
2. Travel to other countries.
3. Sponsorship.
Very easy for the truly beautiful girls. 5/6's not so easy, but that is what you will end up with most likely in Kiev. Do not believe the guys claiming they are with multiple high end girls in Kiev, simply not possible, even for locals. Good luck.[/QUOTE]Didn't you post that you're not even allowed to travel to Ukraine anymore because of some Drama with your ex? I can only imagine what you put this poor girl through. Your obsession with Kiev is super creepy. Half your posts on other forums on ISG directly or indirectly mention Kiev.
No wonder you love Hong Kong club in Tijuana so much, the same place that 90% of locals say is a rip-off. This is one place where the women are so desperate that they aren't going to say NO. I get the feeling even you have been rejected there though.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2416275]It's totally understandable why you can't get laid in Ukraine. From your posting here you seem like a woman hater they are nothing but a number to you. That doesn't mean others can't have success.[/QUOTE]I get laid all the time. Any one claiming Ukraine is good makes makes me wonder. All you do is complain, your choice. I give guys destinations where there are actually hot girls. Yes, I do say Ukraine is average at best. Keep complaining, with zero trip reports.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2416330]Didn't you post that you're not even allowed to travel to Ukraine anymore because of some Drama with your ex? I can only imagine what you put this poor girl through. Your obsession with Kiev is super creepy. Half your posts on other forums on ISG directly or indirectly mention Kiev.
No wonder you love Hong Kong club in Tijuana so much, the same place that 90% of locals say is a rip-off. This is one place where the women are so desperate that they aren't going to say NO. I get the feeling even you have been rejected there though.[/QUOTE]Again bad advice. I lived in Kiev, you might want to read my posts. I would not wasn't my resources going back, complete waste of time. I have zero issues with rejection. I am the one hanging out in Moscow and you are claiming Kiev is good common on.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2416391]I get laid all the time. Any one claiming Ukraine is good makes makes me wonder. All you do is complain, your choice. I give guys destinations where there are actually hot girls. Yes, I do say Ukraine is average at best. Keep complaining, with zero trip reports.[/QUOTE]Once again more lies. Anyone can click on my user name and see many detailed reports. You are a strange one for sure.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2416600]Once again more lies. Anyone can click on my user name and see many detailed reports. You are a strange one for sure.[/QUOTE]Not worth my time to comment. How you can even recommend Kiev makes me wonder.
I find this case against the Hollywood guy very interesting. All he needs is one person on the jury that understands transactional relationships. It's a chuckle listening to these experts and yet a brainless guy like me knows the outcome.
[QUOTE=Riina;2424727]I find this case against the Hollywood guy very interesting. All he needs is one person on the jury that understands transactional relationships. It's a chuckle listening to these experts and yet a brainless guy like me knows the outcome.[/QUOTE]If you're talking about good ole Harvey, there's a big difference between paying a hooker for a blowjob and what this guy did. I'm sure there are a ton of women who went along with it willingly. But also this guy seems like the power went to his head and he couldn't take no for an answer. He probably did rape those women. Us normal pay 4 play mongers have it pretty good; we can anonymously go about our business with escorts. If you're famous it's probably a lot harder to get laid discreetly especially if these guys are married. This fat slob had the hottest wife too. Just goes to show no matter how good the pussy is that men eventually get tired of it.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2424793]If you're talking about good ole Harvey, there's a big difference between paying a hooker for a blowjob and what this guy did. I'm sure there are a ton of women who went along with it willingly. But also this guy seems like the power went to his head and he couldn't take no for an answer. He probably did rape those women. Us normal pay 4 play mongers have it pretty good; we can anonymously go about our business with escorts. If you're famous it's probably a lot harder to get laid discreetly especially if these guys are married. This fat slob had the hottest wife too. Just goes to show no matter how good the pussy is that men eventually get tired of it.[/QUOTE]Holy Gold Digger, you were not kidding about his wife. Looks like a 40 yo ex-Victorias secret model.
[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2424993]Holy Gold Digger, you were not kidding about his wife. Looks like a 40 yo ex-Victorias secret model.[/QUOTE]She's a British fashion designer. She left Harvey after 10 years of marriage, when MeToo movement took off in 2017, and 90 women accused him. AFAIK after she dumped him, Weinstein didn't complain that all the fashion designers are terrible, that the good ones all left UK for greener pastures, and only rated 6 and below remain available for certain activities.
[QUOTE=Rog123;2424793]This fat slob had the hottest wife too. Just goes to show no matter how good the pussy is that men eventually get tired of it.[/QUOTE]That's right!
I actually have no doubts and regrets about calling hourly girls while one of my beautiful rental GFs goes to beauty salon for a few hours or takes her finals at the university. Why do I do that? Because I need variety, I need new pussy, I need the girl showing new passion, discover her, seduce her into doing more than what usually happens.
I am also strictly against abuse in any shape or form. "No" literally means "no", I will not force anything, but I will surely try to convince. I will not use money, but I will try to make my Lady of the Night happy. And Ukrainian ladies certainly love to fuck!
Exactly as I said.
A bro posted this on USASG. I think it's relevant to Kiev.
[QUOTE=Arkan;4676166]I know that in Ukraine and Russia the attractive girls are getting bombed with offers from men. Men from around the world. Men that don't even plan visiting those countries. When I was there the girls I knew were getting Mohammads sending them money each day. These dudes were so needy. And the girls would pay attention to them for a couple minutes and get funded. They also get free trips to Turkey and Dubai. Even some of my workers in my office in Europe received trips to Dubai to "play". They came back with some cash and expensive Gucci or Louis Vuitton. Girls are * it's just about the price. They all cave in eventually. The hot ones get all things handed to them in life. They don't need to come here and be slaves. The average ones are the only girls interested in coming to this country. But the UK is more attractive. Americans tend to think immigrants are so lucky to come to "the best country in the world" But the way Immigration officials treat you when entering the country is very humiliating. Even for citizens coming back from trips abroad. So why should hotties even come? They don't want to really work a job. They can live a way better life in there own country or if necessary go to Germany and make money. With all these apps and websites there is just so many opportunities for hotties to get that cash.
And don't forget the local dudes have money too. Lots of IT workers are under 25 and they are making $3000 to $6000 per month. The market is so hot for skilled workers that HR managers are not able to find enough people. They are actually importing Indians into Eastern Europe and the Balkans. And they are getting paid as well. SO the attractive women can simply hook up with a nice young man and have whatever they want. The Euro agencies and massage businesses will only have old women and average women to offer.[/QUOTE]
The other junk news I find interesting is the Italian guy that got deported. If that cuck understood that their's a touch of tute in every woman, he would have been prepared for the stick shoved up his ass by his bee wife.
[QUOTE=Riina;2426915]A bro posted this on USASG. I think it's relevant to Kiev.[/QUOTE]$3000 to $6000 per month for an IT person in Ukraine is greatly exaggerated. Maybe somewhere else in Eastern Europe and the Balkans, but unlikely in Ukraine, definitely not in Kiev, flooded with talent searching for jobs. And not everyone leaves Ukraine to work elsewhere.
To me this sounds like a rant of an unhappy monger. Maybe he cannot get it in US, and is not quite satisfied while visiting mongering destination. Hence the explanation of obstacles.
The solution is simple. Buy tickets, get to Kiev, and do it right.
I have communicated with two separate visitors that just returned from a week there. Far from the first visit for both, and they are ecstatic. Already scheduling next trip. No difficulties, adequate rates, great service, beautiful ladies. Way above 6, that our irrelevant naysayer steadily complains about.
Sure there is partial truth in that USASG post. Yes, there are visitors spending too much, and even those sending money remotely for nothing. Yes the girls obviously prefer younger partners, and few of them find acceptable suitors. How come however, that I get Valentine's Day messages from 13 Ukrainian girls ranging from 20 to 25? I am almost 60, and forget those messages, - while in Kiev I frequently have to chose between my regulars and reject some of them. And I am far from being unique in my happiness.
SSDD. Same shit, different day. Some succeed, some fail and build lengthy explanations staying in the Ivory Tower far away from the actual action on the ground.
Yes, there are some locals making decent money, and they have abundance of female attention, the market is ultra-competitive.
In my almost 20 years of flying to Kiev, I did have 3 requests to transfer money via Western Union. Refused. All 3 still meet with me while I visit. Paying remotely IMO is a form of masturbation. Girls certainly like it, and there is substantial category living off of it. Why do one of us should participate in that?
I wonder what would that USASG gentleman say after staying in Kiev for a year? Would he find a job paying so well? Would he be happy with ladies?
And don't forget the local dudes have money too. Lots of IT workers are under 25 and they are making $3000 to $6000 per month. The market is so hot for skilled workers that HR managers are not able to find enough people. They are actually importing Indians into Eastern Europe and the Balkans. And they are getting paid as well. SO the attractive women can simply hook up with a nice young man and have whatever they want. The Euro agencies and massage businesses will only have old women and average women to offer.
This is a great point, but many of the regular contributors are in complete denial about the truth. Many locals do have a lot of money, probably even more now, then when I was there, since it is so easy for them to work abroad now.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2427347]Paying remotely IMO is a form of masturbation. Girls certainly like it, and there is substantial category living off of it. Why do one of us should participate in that?[/QUOTE]After giving it a thought, I see that shrinks and lawyers are frequently paid big bucks for nothing. Perhaps paying remotely for online conversation, promise of eternal youth and happiness over video-chat, is something like psycho therapy counseling. Why should Ukrainian girls do it for free?
The case is simple. Get paid remotely, and fuck young local dick. Not too bad of an arrangement.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2427410]The case is simple. Get paid remotely, and fuck young local dick. Not too bad of an arrangement.[/QUOTE]Ever notice the big effort in photography by Ukrainians? There's a reason for that.
[QUOTE=Riina;2426915]...Mohammads sending them money each day...The hot ones get all things handed to them in life... [/QUOTE]When hot girls are young, yes life is easy, but they don't stay young forever. Which is why there are always plenty of former hot girls eager to work for moderate pay as agency dispatchers, mama sans, etc. But why work for moderate pay if it's so easy to squeeze money from "Mohammad"? Just use old photos, from back when they were still hot, or steal another girls photos. If online only, then doesn't matter if photo is real or not, right? Boris and Ivan can also use fake photos to get free money from Mohammed, and Boris and Ivan have the advantage of better understanding how Mohammad's sex-deprived male mind works. In other words, even if a few girls successfully scammed Mohammad in the past, the secret is out now and competition has surely ruined the market. That is, add up all the money of all the gullible Mohammads in the entire world, then divide by the number of scammers, and result is that most scammers aren't making much.
Similar situation with girls in the USA on [URL]seeking.com[/URL] offering platonic or online-only or financial domination relationships. Add up all the money of all the simps willing to indulge such foolishness, divide by the number of girls trying these scams, and final result is that most such girls are getting nothing.
[QUOTE=Riina;2427322]The other junk news I find interesting is the Italian guy that got deported. If that cuck understood that their's a touch of tute in every woman, he would have been prepared for the stick shoved up his ass by his bee wife.[/QUOTE]Riina, can you be a little less cryptic and more informative in your messages please? Not that I am going to marry an Ukrainian, but you certainly piqued my curiosity.
[QUOTE=Riina;2427670]Ever notice the big effort in photography by Ukrainians? There's a reason for that.[/QUOTE]Hence my suggestion to meet the girls in person.
I have nothing against masturbation, or any other form of getting off, as long as it's consensual and nobody is hurt. To each his own. Yet my own preference is to consume the real product instead of a substitute.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2427347]$3000 to $6000 per month for an IT person in Ukraine is greatly exaggerated. Maybe somewhere else in Eastern Europe and the Balkans, but unlikely in Ukraine, definitely not in Kiev, flooded with talent searching for jobs. And not everyone leaves Ukraine to work elsewhere.
I wonder what would that USASG gentleman say after staying in Kiev for a year? Would he find a job paying so well? Would he be happy with ladies?[/QUOTE]I think you would be very surprised at the IT salaries in Kyiv. $3000 is very common for a python or java programmer under 30. In the US or London they would be making at least $8000 a month. So, $3000-4000 is a bargain and office girls (SMM, Adsense, data science, etc.) are making 1200+ a month. Epam alone has over 5000 tech employees in UA. Odessa and the east is a very different story, but the young tech crowd in Kyiv has money.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2427719]...In other words, even if a few girls successfully scammed Mohammad in the past, the secret is out now and competition has surely ruined the market. That is, add up all the money of all the gullible Mohammads in the entire world, then divide by the number of scammers, and result is that most scammers aren't making much...[/QUOTE]The key word here is "most". Some girls do, but resources are limited, and competition is fierce. I have wealthy local friends, they get a lot for free, and have no desire to sponsor long-term.
I also communicated a few times with scammers. They get easily frustrated when their attempts do not work. Desperation is obvious.
So, there's a lot of make-belief, wishful thinking and misconception around mongering activities in Kiev, as well as lots of variety, as it is a big and continually growing city with vibrant young population. Many girls do fish for easy money, doesn't mean they get it left and right, leaving the visiting boys empty-handed.
[QUOTE=TinyHippo;2427814]I think you would be very surprised at the IT salaries in Kyiv. $3000 is very common for a python or java programmer under 30. In the US or London they would be making at least $8000 a month. So, $3000-4000 is a bargain and office girls (SMM, Adsense, data science, etc.) are making 1200+ a month. Epam alone has over 5000 tech employees in UA. Odessa and the east is a very different story, but the young tech crowd in Kyiv has money.[/QUOTE]My doubts were about boys under 25 making 6 K USD a month. 3-4 K USD monthly before taxes or paid cash for a person under 30 in his prime is believable. Happy to be mistaken. Seriously. Thanks for sharing your knowledge in a civilized manner).
Kiev is an interesting city. One can spend almost more than in New York, or stay within very modest limits.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2428180]My doubts were about boys under 25 making 6 K USD a month. 3-4 K USD monthly before taxes or paid cash for a person under 30 in his prime is believable. Happy to be mistaken. Seriously. Thanks for sharing your knowledge in a civilized manner).
Kiev is an interesting city. One can spend almost more than in New York, or stay within very modest limits.[/QUOTE]Yes 2-3 k is more like it. I know because I run a software company in Kyiv.
You guys ever notice that these you tube guys traveling Eastern Europe discreetly incorporate pussy into their videos. If we were back ten years, these same dudes would be on this forum describing their sexual conquests. I enjoy the content, but they're misleading viewers to believe sweet cuties can be found in the East. I can only imagine how many excited young men jump on a plane to only find reality.
I'm not discouraging travel. If you want success, you better have the cash and time. Most importantly, you better keep your Western values back home.
[QUOTE=Riina;2426915]When I was there the girls I knew were getting Mohammads sending them money each day. These dudes were so needy. And the girls would pay attention to them for a couple minutes and get funded.[/QUOTE]When would Mohammads send money to Kiev just for the attention of the girls when they can get high end Ukrainian and Russian escorts in Dubai?
[QUOTE=AntonySun1996;2428843]When would Mohammads send money to Kiev just for the attention of the girls when they can get high end Ukrainian and Russian escorts in Dubai?[/QUOTE]Anthony, the escorts in Dubai and the dreams in Ukraine are different things. The simplest of chat on social media can quickly lead to opening a Western Union account.
[QUOTE=MSClive;2428774]Yes 2-3 k is more like it. I know because I run a software company in Kyiv.[/QUOTE]Thank you for your input. Many of the veterans on the Kiev page are in complete denial about Kiev and nothing will change there mind. There is a lot more money in Kiev then most would ever understand.
[QUOTE=Riina;2428906]Anthony, the escorts in Dubai and the dreams in Ukraine are different things. The simplest of chat on social media can quickly lead to opening a Western Union account.[/QUOTE][URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91697-tr62k[/URL]
I had a number of online arguments with this Stryker guy, including on his Ukraine Fusion forum, where he banned me for negativity. If I recall correctly, Stryker himself spent $5000 on a Dream Connections tour, have $8000 to another agency to get introductions to overweight middle-aged single mothers, then finally met a few younger girls who he took them on expenses paid vacations to Venice and other pricey destinations before they dumped him. At least he got sime "intimacy" during these trips. Not sure how much intimacy, but surely price per act of intimacy at least $1000.
Another guy on Stryker's forum spent like $30 K on a girl and never got more than a kiss. When he took her to Paris after she accepted his marriage proposal, she insisted on separate bedrooms. At least the marriage fell through and he didn't get divorce raped. I spent a lot of time chatting with this guy. Clearly a sharp businessman (something to do with gas and oil drilling) and worth at least $10 million, but absolutely no sense where women are concerned. Turns to putty in the hands of these Ukrainian scammers.
Tons more guys like this. Really mind-boggling how men can be so stupid around women, especially Anglo world men around Ukrainian women.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2429161][URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=91697-tr62k[/URL]
I had a number of online arguments with this Stryker guy, including on his Ukraine Fusion forum, where he banned me for negativity. .[/QUOTE]This is the main reason I stopped going to Ukraine, there are scams everywhere now. Most are small, but very easy to get sucked in. Use to be a great place, but now, not good.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2429161]...introductions to overweight middle-aged single mothers, then finally met a few younger girls who he took on expenses paid vacations to Venice and other pricey destinations before they dumped him...[/QUOTE]What a great writing style! IMHO ability to deliver thoughts clearly, in excellent literary language, certainly with proper grammar and spelling, strongly correlates with person's IQ. And vice versa, constant typos and simple laziness point to primitive thoughts or even lack of any.
Anyway, why do Anglo world men fall in such a predicament with huge expenses and not much if anything gained? There are certain patterns observed:
1. A form of masochism:
- She abused me, and I was so deceived! I spent so much money, and got nothing! And all the Ukrainian girls are ugly scammers!
And those complaints go on and on, because they deliver masochistic pleasure to the whining loser.
2. A form of gambling addiction. Similar risks, dangers, and loss patterns. Perception of getting the value:
- I am a wealthy man. Not everybody can afford this exclusive life style!
Let me explain this one in a little more detail.
When I order an hourly girl from agency, I know that at a minimum I'll get a BJ and vaginal intercourse. Simple very transactional business foundation. There is a chance of getting low quality resource, and most of the time I reject those in the delivery vehicle before paying anything. There is also a chance of getting a poor performer, who acts better during initial casting and then shuts down. In my experience that chance is under 30% when sourcing from established contacts, and I don't mind that loss within 1500-2000 UAH price segment. I consider this as an opportunity to convert better performers to my regulars. But this post is not about my successes.
Things get significantly more complicated with travel, marriage agencies and especially with paid online communication. The Fantasy is sold, the Promise, ever so elusive Happiness. Obviously girls and their management do not want to do much for free.
On one side, those Anglo world men do not dare to destroy that fancy temple, elaborately built in their imagination, with a request for a concise services list directly explaining aforementioned intimacy. Anglo world men assume that imminent paradise will unfold on its own, as it does in their heads (both upper and lower).
On the opposite side, girls (and managing them boys or whoever) have well established business processes with catch phrases and perfectly positioned marketing statements, actually saying nothing about mating or even kissing. That's where the disconnect happens. Anglo world men have false assumptions based on wrong expectations without due diligence, pre-qualification and validation.
Does it mean providers are scammers?
Only if they do not deliver on their promise in the contract.
If contract states "To have great time together with exceptional select females", then there's no breach in not providing sex to dissatisfied horny monger. And doesn't matter if he is ugly or tall, fit, sharply dressed and has great personality. Girls actually enjoy having a type of sadistic pleasure in dominating without delivering while being chased after.
If contract states "sex", but doesn't say how often, and doesn't mention GFE, then this is again the case of wrong expectations and assumptions.
Hookers in Amsterdam RLD do not promise GFE. Pay, fuck and move on! Are they scammers?
When inexperienced black jack player looses more than he can afford, is Casino at fault? Are card dealers and pit bosses merely shameless scammers?
Mongering in Kiev is like gambling. Even experienced card counter may have tactical setbacks, but with solid strategy and properly set expectations long term mongering chances in Kiev are way better than in black jack. And by saying long term, I mean many girls over at least multiple weeks if not months and years.
I am not talking about virtues of management and employees of marriage agencies around the world. And I agree with Kozerog, it is mind-boggling how men can be so stupid around women, doesn't matter Ukrainian or not.
I actually think it is not stupidity, but rather mental disorder one way or the other.
[QUOTE=PhotoSlider;2429312]...A form of gambling addiction...[/QUOTE]The more I think about it, the more similarities found.
5 weeks spent in the Great City of Kiev in September-October 2018, having a total of 50 girls in a pure burst of mongering insanity. First few days it was at least 3 girls one after another every 24 hours, while a semi-permanent rental GF was out of my bed at work in her office.
In a hindsight ordering those hourly girls did look like playing poker or blackjack.
- Give me another card please!
- Lilya, 2000 UAH + taxi, 168 cm, 52 kg, 2, 21 yo. Sending you pictures.
- Not bad. How soon at my door?
- 25 minutes.
- Deal.
Half an hour later I am assessing Lilya's assets and curves. Then later she takes a shower, not quite leaving my apartment yet, while I request via Viber:
- Give me another card please!
- Sonya, 1600 UAH + taxi, 172, 53, 2, 19 yo.
- Pass. I had her already last Friday. Give me a different one!
- Sure Paulina, 1800 UAH + taxi, 175,56, 3, 21 yo. 30 minutes at your entrance?
- Do you have her pictures?
- Here you go.
- Deal! Send her out.
- OK. Then Lilya can take the same car from your location.
At that moment Lilya appears out of the shower in all her shining glory, I pour her more champagne, we still have 20 minutes for a good BJ and sweet chat, when friend of mine calls. He wants to join the game at our table, and maybe strategic for upcoming weekend. And kaleidoscope keeps rotating, generating unimaginable pictures.
Girls like cards of different denomination, hand after hand after hand from the dealer, layout and alignment are constantly changing, wins and busts, ups and downs, the thrill of new face, new character, new interaction.
What a great addiction!
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2429161]Tons more guys like this. Really mind-boggling how men can be so stupid around women, especially Anglo world men around Ukrainian women.[/QUOTE]Most of that interest by ladies towards older guys is checking for a possible big score.
[QUOTE=Riina;2429513]Most of that interest by ladies towards older guys is checking for a possible big score.[/QUOTE]What reason do they have to fuck an old guy when there is plenty of money in the younger crowd? If you flash money to attract some fish. You are going to find a few sharks. It is up to you to be the smart one.
[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2454936]I agree it is just too soon to project that things are just going to open particularly with International travel. I would love to be wrong when it comes to the freedom to travel. There are many announcements read between the lines, words like " hint " when it does open expect a ton of strings attached especially with foreigners.[/QUOTE]Brits may be banned from Thailand. Not sure if this is gossip or what? But I promise you, China / Hong issues and relations has lots to do with who and when gets to travel to Thailand. Just the same as Japan not opening up to China in July because it doesn't want to piss off the USA. But Thailand has drawn its alliance with China on this one. I mentioned this earlier. I wonder if the USA will also be banned as well, since they removed the 1. 3 billion import tax exemption on Thai goods. I guess there always the Philippines for those living in the USA to monger. I wonder what would ever happen if China over took the USA as #1 economy with regards to bilateral agreements?
[URL]https://pattayaone.news/thailand-to-reopen-to-tourists-in-july-but-brits-may-be-banned/[/URL]
[QUOTE=MonkeyPaw;2454943]I wonder if Thailand will restrict the United States travelers, so they don't piss off the Chinese and now Hong Kong.[/QUOTE]Rather than being political, I think this will be more of a practical move. Why would countries who have done the hard (and expensive) yards by locking down early and strictly, thereby slowing the spread of the virus, allow residents of countries with let's say a more "laissez faire" approach to the virus' spreading similiar access to their country. It doesn't make much sense to them and I have to agree.
That's partly what this bloody virus is all about IMHO. Take me seriously governments or I will destroy you!
[QUOTE=MonkeyPaw;2454953]Brits may be banned from Thailand. Not sure if this is gossip or what? But I promise you, China / Hong issues and relations has lots to do with who and when gets to travel to Thailand. Just the same as Japan not opening up to China in July because it doesn't want to piss off the USA. But Thailand has drawn its alliance with China on this one. I mentioned this earlier. I wonder if the USA will also be banned as well, since they removed the 1. 3 billion import tax exemption on Thai goods. I guess there always the Philippines for those living in the USA to monger. I wonder what would ever happen if China over took the USA as #1 economy with regards to bilateral agreements?
[URL]https://pattayaone.news/thailand-to-reopen-to-tourists-in-july-but-brits-may-be-banned/[/URL][/QUOTE]If one thinks politics isn't involved just an opinion then they are very limited to view of things! I agree with you that countries like South Korea / Japan need to tiptoe their way through their decision with China as we have seen if China doesn't like something now that they hold lots of the cards will let you know Australia is a good example just as the NBA found out too. I also agree on Thailand has on the surface have made their decision they got their head up China ass it will be a long time before their leaders see any light it is just the beginning as I noted before if things get really bad like a SEA confrontation a real decision will need to be made as others have noted the Thai people, in general, have negative things to say about the Chinese tourist but they don't make the decision for Thailand.
My real opinion right now they will slowly allow those who look like them enter since the numbers are reported low whether other countries are lying or not, based on the numbers coming out of UK and America many Thais I've had a conversation with and what comes out of their leader's mouth they have no idea why the numbers are so high nor do they care they have concluded through their ignorance that white folks are dirty that being said when it comes to both there will certainly be strings attached. In the U.S. certainly the last week's events Memorial weekend, then the giant pool party in Missouri that just reported a positive case which means how many did he or she infect and there were hundreds if not thousands. Now with all the rioting it would be interesting to see the spike if there is an outbreak it will push things a few months down the road for the U.S. in regards to international travel.
Just to make sure no one gets it wrong regardless of my views I hope I'm wrong and put the politics stuff aside they just open it up with no restrictions at all. I don't need to return home right now my mother 102 in an assisted living situation is well looked after and protected so far but if the virus doesn't get her it is a matter of time her age will and if that happens with the restrictions I won't even be able to return and that has caused a lot of lost sleep and that doesn't include all the legal responsibility I've been given to my nephew and nieces.
As for China taking over as #1, what will happen is what the USA Does best is try to get it back and that is using capital and politics to get it back those in the middle which are a lot will need to choose sides whether they want to or not and that includes Thailand.
[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2454986]If one thinks politics isn't involved just an opinion then they are very limited to view of things! I agree with you that countries like South Korea / Japan need to tiptoe their way through their decision with China as we have seen if China doesn't like something now that they hold lots of the cards will let you know Australia is a good example just as the NBA found out too. I also agree on Thailand has on the surface have made their decision they got their head up China ass it will be a long time before their leaders see any light it is just the beginning as I noted before if things get really bad like a SEA confrontation a real decision will need to be made as others have noted the Thai people, in general, have negative things to say about the Chinese tourist but they don't make the decision for Thailand.
My real opinion right now they will slowly allow those who look like them enter since the numbers are reported low whether other countries are lying or not, based on the numbers coming out of UK and America many Thais I've had a conversation with and what comes out of their leader's mouth they have no idea why the numbers are so high nor do they care they have concluded through their ignorance that white folks are dirty that being said when it comes to both there will certainly be strings attached. In the U.S. certainly the last week's events Memorial weekend, then the giant pool party in Missouri that just reported a positive case which means how many did he or she infect and there were hundreds if not thousands. Now with all the rioting it would be interesting to see the spike if there is an outbreak it will push things a few months down the road for the U.S. in regards to international travel..[/QUOTE]I totally agree, but you really have to fix that "comma" button on your keyboard.
[QUOTE=MonkeyPaw;2454943]
[URL]https://www.bangkokpost.com/thailand/general/1927132/japan-mulls-easing-entry-limits-for-thailand-3-other-countries-yomiuri[/URL]
"Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's administration remains cautious towards softening the restrictions any time soon on China as any early reopening could trigger a backlash from the United States, which has been critical of the mainland's handling of the disease, the report said."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2454986]If one thinks politics isn't involved just an opinion then they are very limited to view of things! I agree with you that countries like South Korea / Japan need to tiptoe their way through their decision with China as we have seen if China doesn't like something now that they hold lots of the cards will let you know Australia is a good example just as the NBA found out too. I also agree on Thailand has on the surface have made their decision they got their head up China ass it will be a long time before their leaders see any light it is just the beginning as I noted before if things get really bad like a SEA confrontation a real decision will need to be made as others have noted the Thai people, in general, have negative things to say about the Chinese tourist but they don't make the decision for Thailand.
My real opinion right now they will slowly allow those who look like them enter since the numbers are reported low whether other countries are lying or not, based on the numbers coming out of UK and America many Thais I've had a conversation with and what comes out of their leader's mouth they have no idea why the numbers are so high nor do they care they have concluded through their ignorance that white folks are dirty that being said when it comes to both there will certainly be strings attached. In the U.S. certainly the last week's events Memorial weekend, then the giant pool party in Missouri that just reported a positive case which means how many did he or she infect and there were hundreds if not thousands. Now with all the rioting it would be interesting to see the spike if there is an outbreak it will push things a few months down the road for the U.S. in regards to international travel.
Just to make sure no one gets it wrong regardless of my views I hope I'm wrong and put the politics stuff aside they just open it up with no restrictions at all. I don't need to return home right now my mother 102 in an assisted living situation is well looked after and protected so far but if the virus doesn't get her it is a matter of time her age will and if that happens with the restrictions I won't even be able to return and that has caused a lot of lost sleep and that doesn't include all the legal responsibility I've been given to my nephew and nieces.
As for China taking over as #1, what will happen is what the USA Does best is try to get it back and that is using capital and politics to get it back those in the middle which are a lot will need to choose sides whether they want to or not and that includes Thailand.[/QUOTE]
I agree with both of you guys. In fact I was talking about this 10 days ago, maybe longer. The thing is I am very pissed off at the Chinese Communist Dictatorship. Let us not forget that they started this whole Pandemic crises through their lies, cover up, and most importantly the fact that they let their citizens travel outside of China after they knew there was a serious problem ie to infect the world. In addition, they have built offensive military bases on man made islands in international waters of the South China Sea, and as we speak are clamping down once and for all on the freedoms of Hong Kong in violation to a treaty they signed, are currently threatening military action against India & always threaten the existence of Taiwan, and let us not forget about their continuing unfair trade practices and intellectual property theft.
The bottom line is the world is already in a new Cold War with China whether we recognize it or not, but thanks to the pandemic, I think the world is finally waking up to these fact and nations like Thailand and the PI are going to have to choose which side they want to line up with. Maybe Thailand has already decided. I am not sure on that. But, I know every country, every citizen of the world is going to have to choose. I have made my choice. I won't buy Chinese manufactured products any longer if I can help it and here is a small trivial example: the other day I was shopping online for a pair of lightweight jeans from one of my favorite designers. The jeans were listed at 50% off. I was about to make the purchase until I noticed a review that said the product was manufactured in China and I did not make the purchase. My point being that on a much larger aggregate basis nations are going to have to decide where they import manufactured products from too.
So yeah, Thailand is a sovereign nation and can do what it likes in regards to the Chinese. It is a complex problem and may very well involve some economic pain in the beginning. I sincerely hope they make the right choice because I really like Thailand and the Thai people. but as I voiced this opinion before and I repeat it now: because of China's critical role in causing the world wide Pandemic and the fact that it is still lying about it; I will be personally insulted if the Thai Government were to let Chinese Nationals back into Thailand ahead of Americans, Europeans and Australians. So insulted that I might very well decide to boycott Thailand for my next few trips. There are plenty of other countries that I have not been to in quite a long time with pretty girls, nice beaches, and good food and where I can spend my hard earned money. Now maybe Thailand doesn't care about that. Fair enough, but they are still going to have to decide which side they want to be on in this new Cold War. I have a feeling they will eventually figure it out if they have not already, that Communist China is not their friend and more importantly can't be trusted. At least I hope so.
[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2455026]I agree with both of you guys. In fact I was talking about this 10 days ago, maybe longer. The thing is I am very pissed off at the Chinese Communist Dictatorship. Let us not forget that they started this whole Pandemic crises through their lies, cover up, and most importantly the fact that they let their citizens travel outside of China after they knew there was a serious problem ie to infect the world. In addition, they have built offensive military bases on man made islands in international waters of the South China Sea, and as we speak are clamping down once and for all on the freedoms of Hong Kong in violation to a treaty they signed, are currently threatening military action against India & always threaten the existence of Taiwan, and let us not forget about their continuing unfair trade practices and intellectual property theft.
The bottom line is the world is already in a new Cold War with China whether we recognize it or not, but thanks to the pandemic, I think the world is finally waking up to these fact and nations like Thailand and the PI are going to have to choose which side they want to line up with. Maybe Thailand has already decided. I am not sure on that. But, I know every country, every citizen of the world is going to have to choose. I have made my choice. I won't buy Chinese manufactured products any longer if I can help it and here is a small trivial example: the other day I was shopping online for a pair of lightweight jeans from one of my favorite designers. The jeans were listed at 50% off. I was about to make the purchase until I noticed a review that said the product was manufactured in China and I did not make the purchase. My point being that on a much larger aggregate basis nations are going to have to decide where they import manufactured products from too.
So yeah, Thailand is a sovereign nation and can do what it likes in regards to the Chinese. It is a complex problem and may very well involve some economic pain in the beginning. I sincerely hope they make the right choice because I really like Thailand and the Thai people. but as I voiced this opinion before and I repeat it now: because of China's critical role in causing the world wide Pandemic and the fact that it is still lying about it; I will be personally insulted if the Thai Government were to let Chinese Nationals back into Thailand ahead of Americans, Europeans and Australians. So insulted that I might very well decide to boycott Thailand for my next few trips. There are plenty of other countries that I have not been to in quite a long time with pretty girls, nice beaches, and good food and where I can spend my hard earned money. Now maybe Thailand doesn't care about that. Fair enough, but they are still going to have to decide which side they want to be on in this new Cold War. I have a feeling they will eventually figure it out if they have not already, that Communist China is not their friend and more importantly can't be trusted. At least I hope so.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.wired.com/story/us-china-cybertheft-su-bin/?mbid=social_facebook&utm_brand=wired&utm_campaign=falcon&utm_medium=social&utm_social-type=owned&utm_source=facebook[/URL]
Long one but a must read.
[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2455026]I agree with both of you guys. In fact I was talking about this 10 days ago, maybe longer. The thing is I am very pissed off at the Chinese Communist Dictatorship. Let us not forget that they started this whole Pandemic crises through their lies, cover up, and most importantly the fact that they let their citizens travel outside of China after they knew there was a serious problem ie to infect the world. In addition, they have built offensive military bases on man made islands in international waters of the South China Sea, and as we speak are clamping down once and for all on the freedoms of Hong Kong in violation to a treaty they signed, are currently threatening military action against India & always threaten the existence of Taiwan, and let us not forget about their continuing unfair trade practices and intellectual property theft.
The bottom line is the world is already in a new Cold War with China whether we recognize it or not, but thanks to the pandemic, I think the world is finally waking up to these fact and nations like Thailand and the PI are going to have to choose which side they want to line up with. Maybe Thailand has already decided. I am not sure on that. But, I know every country, every citizen of the world is going to have to choose. I have made my choice. I won't buy Chinese manufactured products any longer if I can help it and here is a small trivial example: the other day I was shopping online for a pair of lightweight jeans from one of my favorite designers. The jeans were listed at 50% off. I was about to make the purchase until I noticed a review that said the product was manufactured in China and I did not make the purchase. My point being that on a much larger aggregate basis nations are going to have to decide where they import manufactured products from too.
So yeah, Thailand is a sovereign nation and can do what it likes in regards to the Chinese. It is a complex problem and may very well involve some economic pain in the beginning. I sincerely hope they make the right choice because I really like Thailand and the Thai people. but as I voiced this opinion before and I repeat it now: because of China's critical role in causing the world wide Pandemic and the fact that it is still lying about it; I will be personally insulted if the Thai Government were to let Chinese Nationals back into Thailand ahead of Americans, Europeans and Australians. So insulted that I might very well decide to boycott Thailand for my next few trips. There are plenty of other countries that I have not been to in quite a long time with pretty girls, nice beaches, and good food and where I can spend my hard earned money. Now maybe Thailand doesn't care about that. Fair enough, but they are still going to have to decide which side they want to be on in this new Cold War. I have a feeling they will eventually figure it out if they have not already, that Communist China is not their friend and more importantly can't be trusted. At least I hope so.[/QUOTE]The Chinese Communist Party has used the Wuhan virus as the sneak attack that has hurt the United States (and the rest of the world) in a way more devious and cunning than the attack on Pearl Harbor. The US doesn't even acknowledge that a real state of war does now exist between the PRC and this country. The dead in the US is over 106,000 and counting from this CCP attack. Pearl Harbor was only 2,400+ dead and the World Trade Center was 2,977.
From my college political science class I remember the professors telling us that in the economic battles that fail to resolve disputes, the next step is usually a military conflict, war in other words. With the ongoing dispute between the PRCs blatant theft of the intellectual property from the rest of the world and primarily the US, the Wuhan virus should be seen as an outright attack at the United States. The PRC's Politburo knows that a military conflict with the United States cannot be won by the PRC. Only by subterfuge and deceit can the PRC destroy the US ability to defend itself in the long run when its economy is left in shambles. Just remember, President Xi / Pooh wants to take over the world while he is alive and kicking!
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2454933]Correct about the most of the beautiful girls left the country 3-5 years ago. 600 Grv, will not work, unless you have not standards. $75-150 per session. Not cheap anymore and the hot girls are long gone. 6's are available, but not for little money, complete myth.[/QUOTE]"getting a beautiful well-mannered girl rated above 8 for 1500-2000 UAH an hour are definitely higher than 50%. " This statement is completely wrong, false and delusional. It is not possible to have multiple hot girls in Kiev. These guys that claim the Kiev is this great place, leave out some many details out in there reports and forget to mention the time, energy, and money they put in there hobby. Nothing wrong with this, but be honest about it. There are very few 7-8's in Kiev especially to foreign guys and newbie. It has been like this for years, it is just a not new problem. If you find one you will be paying more the $150-300 range, even now. This pollster continues to make these ridiculous claims, how easy it is. It is simply not possible in any country, unless you get extremely lucky, to get High End girls and this price. He and his bodies continues to ignore the issues that are negative about Ukraine. He jokes about the scams and thinks it funny, far from that, when people get ripped off, big time on daily basis, but they forget to mention this.
I ask myself why would want to go to a place were it is one big scam. Restaurants are empty most of time, fake profiles,(are the norm, not the exception), night life does not exist (this was before the crisis, it will be even worse now) Scams are everywhere, Restaurants, Bars, Stores and agencies.
Just do a little research on google and you will just see how bad it is. People are fleeing the country in bus loads, because no opportunities, everyone is lying or trying to rip you off in one form of another.
That being said it might be slightly better for a few months while girls regroup, from living abroad, save there money, and prepare leave the country for better life. Yes leave the country, time for guys to address some of the real issues in Kiev, but that would be to easy and require some honesty.
[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2455026] The thing is I am very pissed off at the Chinese Communist Dictatorship. Let us not forget that they started this whole Pandemic crises through their lies, cover up, and most importantly the fact that they let their citizens travel outside of China after they knew there was a serious problem ie to infect the world. [/QUOTE]By the time the virus reached Europe and the USA it was already pretty clear that it was very contagious and dangerous, but despite that many governments underestimated it and reacted too slow. Just like China did in the first place.
So China is not the only one to blame. China did not infect the world all by its own. The world infected itself.
[QUOTE=Rodwint2;2455209]The Chinese Communist Party has used the Wuhan virus as the sneak attack that has hurt the United States (and the rest of the world) in a way more devious and cunning than the attack on Pearl Harbor. The US doesn't even acknowledge that a real state of war does now exist between the PRC and this country. The dead in the US is over 106,000 and counting from this CCP attack. Pearl Harbor was only 2,400+ dead and the World Trade Center was 2,977.
From my college political science class I remember the professors telling us that in the economic battles that fail to resolve disputes, the next step is usually a military conflict, war in other words. With the ongoing dispute between the PRCs blatant theft of the intellectual property from the rest of the world and primarily the US, the Wuhan virus should be seen as an outright attack at the United States. The PRC's Politburo knows that a military conflict with the United States cannot be won by the PRC. Only by subterfuge and deceit can the PRC destroy the US ability to defend itself in the long run when its economy is left in shambles. Just remember, President Xi / Pooh wants to take over the world while he is alive and kicking![/QUOTE]Can you and your friends take your thread to the BS thread? The Covid19 disaster in the West is due to mismanagement, mostly in the old folks' care homes. If you eat properly and live in a good area, you are at minimum risk. Your stupid attacks on China are a mirror image of attacks when Japan went ahead in the 1970's. The USA is not the centre of the world. The US built itself on industrial espionage and theft, in the mills and factories of Scotland to take but one example of many. They stole technology from Germany after both world wars.
The other thing spreading Covid19 is the global supply chain of which you are a part. HIV in the USA and from the USA is a good precedent in that regard.
Can you and your compatriots ease back a bit. Maybe go read The Ugly American and maybe ask your fellow Americans not to talk so loudly in public. Thais and others like to tone things down, to blend in, not to wear Hawaii shirts and roar for Big Macs. Capiche?
[QUOTE=Mogwai;2455215]By the time the virus reached Europe and the USA it was already pretty clear that it was very contagious and dangerous, but despite that many governments underestimated it and reacted too slow. Just like China did in the first place.
So China is not the only one to blame. China did not infect the world all by its own. The world infected itself.[/QUOTE]That is your opinion but I strongly disagree. Your opinion " by the time the virus reached Europe and USA " yes it was contagious and dangerous but the point N.B. made and you quoted was China hid how contagious and dangerous the virus was and allow Chinese to travel abroad you stated " very cleared " which was incorrect even China told the W. H. O. That it wasn't which caused a lot of countries even the USA To underestimate the problem. January 25th of 2020 there was only one case of Virus being reported in the USA As I remember reading.
Sure many countries underestimated and had no real idea or just not prepared to handle such a problem but the SOURCE OR LACK OF IT COMES FROM China!
[QUOTE=LittleBigMan;2455237]That is your opinion but I strongly disagree. Your opinion " by the time the virus reached Europe and USA " yes it was contagious and dangerous but the point N.B. made and you quoted was China hid how contagious and dangerous the virus was and allow Chinese to travel abroad you stated " very cleared " which was incorrect even China told the W. H. O. That it wasn't which caused a lot of countries even the USA To underestimate the problem. January 25th of 2020 there was only one case of Virus being reported in the USA As I remember reading.
Sure many countries underestimated and had no real idea or just not prepared to handle such a problem but the SOURCE OR LACK OF IT COMES FROM China![/QUOTE]President of the United States, Donald Trump, was repeatedly told by his intelligence agencies in early January, all through the rest of January, all throughout February and into the first half of March about the true pandemic risks of the virus contrary to what China was trying to pawn off on the world about it.
Therefore, anything he said about it after early January, such as, "It's one person coming in from China, It's going to be just fine, We've got it totally under control, This is their (the Democrats) new hoax, China has been working very hard to contain the Coronavirus, The United States greatly appreciates their efforts and transparency, It will all work out well, In particular, on behalf of the American People, I want to thank President Xi!", and on and on and on was a confirmation of China's lies, known to be lies by the President of the United States, for the entire world to accept. That includes lying to you, me, Fauci, Pelosi, Biden, everyone on the planet who was not in on those classified meetings with Trump from early January on and privy to his Presidential Daily Briefings during that time.
I would argue Trump's lies about it in his position as POTUS were ultimately more damaging to more countries around the world and certainly to the USA than Xi's because, historically speaking at least, the rest of the world would be inclined to believe the USA would not stand by and allow lies to go unchallenged much less repeat and confirm lies coming out of China about something so potentially disastrous to so many. But, apparently, this time we did.
[B]2 months in the dark: the increasingly damning timeline of Trump's coronavirus response.[/B]
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/04/07/timeline-trumps-coronavirus-response-is-increasingly-damning/[/URL]
[QUOTE]Early January: Intelligence officials begin offering ominous, classified warnings about the virus to Trump in the Presidents Daily Brief. The warnings will persist into February.
Early January: In a report to the director of National Intelligence, a State Department epidemiologist warns that the virus is likely to spread across the globe and could result in a pandemic, and the Defense Intelligence Agencys National Center for Medical Intelligence comes to the same conclusion, per the New York Times.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2455269]
I would argue Trump's lies about it in his position as POTUS were ultimately more damaging to more countries around the world and certainly to the USA than Xi's because, historically speaking at least, the rest of the world would be inclined to believe the USA would not stand by and allow lies to go unchallenged much less repeat and confirm lies coming out of China about something so potentially disastrous to so many. But, apparently, this time we did.
[/QUOTE] EihTooms, we are trying to have a grown up discussion here. Aside from your usual blame everything on Trump psychosis, you now excuse the Chinese Communists from their crime of knowingly allowing the Wuhan virus out of China to infect Europe, Asia, and Africa and lying about it by claiming that, that was Trump's fault as well. 555. You are soooooooooo predictable. Go back to the rubber room ie the American Politics thread where you belong. You are embarrassing yourself.
[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2455280]EihTooms, we are trying to have a grown up discussion here. Aside from your usual blame everything on Trump psychosis, you now excuse the Chinese Communists from their crime of knowingly allowing the Wuhan virus out of China to infect Europe, Asia, and Africa and lying about it by claiming that, that was Trump's fault as well. 555. You are soooooooooo predictable. Go back to the rubber room ie the American Politics thread where you belong. You are embarrassing yourself.[/QUOTE]You know I didn't write any such thing, Natty. Please stop lying about what I post. Adults shouldn't need to do that to make their point.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2455286]You know I didn't write any such thing, Natty. Please stop lying about what I post. Adults shouldn't need to do that to make their point.[/QUOTE]Huh? I am quoting directly from the 3rd paragraph in the post you made this very morning. Did you not post this:
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2455269] I would argue Trump's lies about it in his position as POTUS were ultimately more damaging to more countries around the world and certainly to the USA than Xi's because, historically speaking at least, the rest of the world would be inclined to believe the USA would not stand by and allow lies to go unchallenged much less repeat and confirm lies coming out of China about something so potentially disastrous to so many. But, apparently, this time we did.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=NattyBumpo;2455288]Huh? I am quoting directly from the 3rd paragraph in the post you made this very morning.[/QUOTE]No, Natty, not one word of what you wrote is a "quote" from my post. I didn't excuse China from anything. And I didn't say their lying about it was Trump's fault.
BTW, you are welcome to visit the American Politics room any time to grandly refute anything I've written that you seem to think is not based on fact.
[QUOTE=EihTooms;2455289]No, Natty, not one word of what you wrote is a "quote" from my post. I didn't excuse China from anything. And I didn't say their lying about it was Trump's fault.
BTW, you are welcome to visit the American Politics room any time to grandly refute anything I've written that you seem to think is not based on fact.[/QUOTE]Biggest screw up with China was after SARS not shutting down the wet markets. Their existence exponentially increased the risk of transmission of virus's from animals to humans. That is unforgivable and they have to accept responsibility.
When the virus was first recognized by a doctor in Wuhan they silenced him. Their explanation was that he was unnecessarily creating panic, thinking or just hoping he was wrong and it would go away. He was right, they were wrong.
It took off and spread outside China.
From there it came down to how different countries dealt with what was a seriously contagious pandemic. Some, New Zealand, South Korea, Taiwan, Germany and Thailand to mention some recognized the danger and took measures to contain it, some didn't until it was too late the UK, and the US being among those that delayed and are now paying a high price in lives lost.
To blame China for how it started and why it wasn't contained is justified. To blame China for the failures of other countries to take it seriously is not justified. They had choices and made the wrong ones.
Let's be real. The current China bashing is mostly political particularly where there are pending elections.
Finding an enemy to fear is tried and tested from the Jews in Hitler's Germany to disease invested hoards of rapist immigrants in Trump's Americas. Sadly it works. Too many want to point the finger rather than look in the mirror.
On China's growing influence, it's real. One can argue the merits of accepting their aid but there will be consequences when payment comes due.
Trying to find countries to visit which are not in one way or another not already under this influence is going to get harder and harder.
"Professional or otherwise". So, every man who is not in a relationship and 100% faithful?
[QUOTE=Riina;2230836]According to Urban Dictionary. [I]A person who is actively researching and on the prowl for sexual intercourse with a professional or otherwise. This mostly happens away from home in a foreign Country or City, but can happen right in your own town.[/I].
I prefer the word hobbyist.[/QUOTE]
After her "is it a problem?" message, you should have just agreed to meet her for lunch where she wanted and then gone to McDonald's for lunch. While biting into your DOuble McCheese, you would have started to get her desperate and then angry messages.
[QUOTE=ShawMan74;2355244]Ok so there is a little anecdote off of tinder that can be used as a shareable moment, or even a teachable one.
So I matched with girl, we sent text, and before long that became chit chat through the day. This led to an agreement to meet over lunch. Here's where it goes to shit. She wants me to take her to this place, basically insists on it - [URL]https://g.co/kgs/4Uppdj[/URL] that's right, the jerk wanted me to take her to a 5 star restaurant on the water for our first meeting! Are you fucking kidding me!? But I'm willing to spot that there may be a culture gap and I don't want to insinuate intent across text so I tactfully reply, well, here's the chatlog:
Me: its a little more than what I wanted for lunch. It is also a little far down the way.
Me: can you meet me a little closer to independence square / maiden maybe?
Kristina: Take taxi.
Kristina: It's problem?
Me: not a problem, just a little uncomfortable to go that far for lunch. Is it a problem for me to pick a restaurant a little closer to independence square area?
Kristina: Well, since I give a piece of myself and this is a problem for you, I don't think that we need to meet at all.
Me: Wow. If this is a reflection of who you really are as a person, then I am glad we did not meet.
Ok totally duplicitous, dodged a bullet there, WHEW! But on a different level of thinking it makes me wonder what kind of a miserable bastard she must be on the inside, to think in that manipulative way. To approach a social site designed to meet new people with the conniving mindset to gain what? A lunch. Really?? She is then the same kind of person who throws her hands up to the sky and says "hasa diga eebowai" (look it up) when she finally has a moment of clarity, and looks around her to find that her life has become nothing but a sad sack of shit. For this kind of toxic person life is not too short, on the contrary, it is almost entirely too long. And I hope she lives forever hahaha.[/QUOTE]
Please, the first meeting is one drink at 8 or 9 PM in the evening, too late for dinner, and early enough to head to your place if you hit it off or she is a (semi) pro. AIf, after one drink, things seem okay, buy another round. Make sure YOU order the drinks, and pay each drink immediately after you get it (just in case you have to leave suddenly, you tell the waiter / bartender). After 3-5 drinks, either close the deal and head to your place or, if she is really a nice girl, agree to meet for a walk in the park the next day.
I had good experiences with some nice girls, really marriage material girls, who are so concerned with being categorized as gold-diggers that they refuse to accept anything! After 2 hours of conversation, I have to nearly force them one girl to let me buy her a coffee, and another one to accept 75 UAH for her trip back to her city.
[QUOTE=SFNative;2359616]Had some dates on Tinder I met a lady here for dinner. Polyuvannya Na Ovets it's like an Asian / steak restaurant. Yup you guessed it 5 star. Had to take an Uber there of course. I liked the lady plus wanted to see a different part of Kiev. I guess it was old Kiev.
I notice a lot of these ladies on Tinder they want to go to Avalon for drinks. I might have to check that place out? Is it good place?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Stevie69;2504813]After her "is it a problem?" message, you should have just agreed to meet her for lunch where she wanted and then gone to McDonald's for lunch. While biting into your DOuble McCheese, you would have started to get her desperate and then angry messages.[/QUOTE]This a normal thing in Kiev the girls get a percentage from the restaurant and bars. I have talked about this many times, but the guys that use to write about how great Kiev is, some how they claim this is not an issue. The new guys posts are great and honest. The old timer panted a different picture of Kiev, that was just not true. Another example of a reason not to go to Kiev.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2619650]Normally, I agree with most your posts, this one probably not. Kiev has declined dramatically, other destinations not even close to what is happening in Ukraine. Top end talent is leaving, as soon as they can get the hell out of there, this includes the business world.
As others mentioned you could find a party every night of the week, now not even Fridays.
You can find cheap girls in Ukraine, but this will take, a lot of work, time and money. Under $100, even $200, you will probably be very disappointed. I am banging way better looking girls then I was in Kiev, not even close, so there are still beautiful girls all over the world. You probably will not find hot girls in Kiev, unless you are working there or living there full time, even then you will probably top out at a 6.[/QUOTE]So when were you last in Kiev?
L. M whenever you want to go let me know, but that require you getting off your computer and stop complaining. Lived there done that. You were also invited to MYT, but you never went. You just complain and try and get others in trouble. You can read my reports everything is well documented.
Yes, I talk about the decline of Kiev, but I also speak of other destinations that are better. I also compliment others when they write great reports. You might want to do the same.
Sooner or later Admin will figure out you game, you are just a big trouble maker and extremely jealous. I am in MTY every second weekend, having a great time, something you know very little about.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2621123]L. M whenever you want to go let me know, but that require you getting off your computer and stop complaining. Lived there done that. You were also invited to MYT, but you never went. You just complain and try and get others in trouble. You can read my reports everything is well documented.
Yes, I talk about the decline of Kiev, but I also speak of other destinations that are better. I also compliment others when they write great reports. You might want to do the same.
Sooner or later Admin will figure out you game, you are just a big trouble maker and extremely jealous. I am in MTY every second weekend, having a great time, something you know very little about.[/QUOTE]No need to get so defensive. I merely asked a fair and simple question to help me and others assess the relevancy of your posts related to Kiev, which you avoided answering. Thus, I will ask again. When were you last in Kiev?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2669032]If you think of things from Putin's perspective, he's already jumped in the deep end and needs to achieve a "win" at all costs. He's already a pariah to the rest of the world, and will probably be found guilty of war crimes. That means his only future lies within Russia, and he won't even have that if he fails. His supporters might endure and forgive all the sanctions and hardships IF he reclaims all (or a substantial part) of Ukraine. If he doesn't, he's finished.
At a minimum, IMHO, Putin will do his utmost to occupy and subjugate Kyiv itself. He already has the separatist regions, and he formally recognized them before invading, so he can't claim that as a win. In order for him to be able to claim a victory to justify the invasion, and be worthy of the losses Russia has already incurred, Kyiv is the prize he'll want.[/QUOTE]Jmsuttr,
Your thoughts on the Ukraine situation are very insightful. I think Putin's days as the head of Russia are limited. Putin is launching a new cold war. 2022 is a much different time and place then 1948. Russians are now more linked to the West. Modern communications make closing off a country much more difficult. These will be dark days for the Russian economy.
Putin's future is in the hands of the military leadership on whether they will support a coup. Economic pressures will rally the citizenry. The soldiers have mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers. From what we hear, Putin is isolated and has perhaps psychotic yearnings for the past. Russia likely can't project its power like the days of the old Soviet Union. I'm not sure he is inspiring confidence.
The Russia-China thing seems to be a little joke for the Chinese. I'm sure they enjoyed Putin poking the West and challenging Western hegemony. However, it remains to be seen that the Chinese even believed Putin would invade the Ukraine. China might be more self-sufficient than Russia, but they are also very much more interlinked with Western economies. While China might relish a Taiwan that they view as China, they have never been as aggressive as the former Soviet Union in projecting military power around the globe. So it's debatable whether they view Putin's desire to cobble back the Soviet-Russian empire favorably.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2669032]If you think of things from Putin's perspective, he's already jumped in the deep end and needs to achieve a "win" at all costs. ... Bottom-line, if there's any way to (relatively) safely get out of Kiev to a city that isn't in the line of fire, I'd seriously be exploring that option. Again, I hope I'm wrong, and I'd certainly like to hear what others think about possible scenarios. Wishing you and your friends luck.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately, you are correct. As I wrote earlier, my view was that Russia was "winning" before the invasion, by hurting Ukraine's economy more than invasion preparation was hurting Russia, but maybe view inside Russia was different. Or maybe Putin saw Ukraine rearming and figured it was either now or never.
As for invading, there is no easy way to stop insurgency without horribly brutal tactics, so what I would have done (after knocking out Ukrainian air defenses) is establish a Russian controlled corridor between Chernobyl and Transnistria (between Kyiv and Zhytomyr) avoiding large towns, thus surrounding Ukraine on all sides (blockade of Black Sea ports). Maintain that corridor clear by any means necessary (artillery and air response to attacks, periodic fuel air bombardment of corridor itself, landmines), allow civilian traffic to go west but not east, then just wait. Use professionals to establish and maintain the corridor, use conscripts to launch diversionary attacks elsewhere. Assuming the corridor idea is feasible, thus is far less risky and destructive than entering cities.
My regular left Kyiv for her village 100 km away immediately after the invasion, where she has family. Other than some shortages in stores, no signs of war near her village.
[QUOTE=Bhamsookh1;2669216]That's Baldr! Unbelievable that![/QUOTE]I was just wondering what had become of Bald & Bankrupt!
Seriously gripping YT vid. Glad they made it to the border.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2669135]Another option: Border to Romania or _real_ Moldova. Not to mix up with Russian friendly PMR![/QUOTE]I've seen reports of a Chinese student who was shot while trying to get out of Kyiv. And also reports of China's concern about their citizens facing hostility in Ukraine because China isn't supporting anti-Russia sanctions. What that could mean is that China might use their influence to try to broker some kind of temporary ceasefire to get their people out. If something like that happens, that could be a window of opportunity for others to leave, as well.
Obviously there are a lot of variables involved, and Russia might not agree or might make unacceptable demands, but China has influence that no other country has. If they're expressing concern, Russia might listen. And I also saw a report that said Russia might be willing to discuss a ceasefire when they next meet with the Ukrainian delegation.
Again, the devil will be in the details, but anyone in Kyiv (or elsewhere) who wants to leave should be ready to move quickly if and when a window opens. Good luck to all, and may you be safe!
1. Rumors or info about Putin's physical or mental health.
I've seen speculation about Putin having some kind of serious physical ailment. And, while it's pure speculation and probably impossible to verify, if there's any truth to it that would be supportive of the idea that Putin is acting to cement his legacy and believes he doesn't have a lot of time to do so. I looked at a few recent pics of Putin and I thought his face looked a bit bloated and not as healthy as in recent years, but it's certainly possible I could be seeing something that isn't there. Whatever the case, I'm keeping an eye out for any info on the health issue. As far as mental health is concerned, the relevance is obvious. So I'm also watching for reports that Putin is "losing it" or otherwise falling into a bunker mentality that would hinder rational decision making.
2. The effects of both macro and micro sanctions.
I'm sure the Kremlin anticipated and planned for expected sanctions. But there may be some macro (country-level) sanctions they didn't foresee, like the freezing of much of their central bank reserves. But what I'm watching with great interest is the effect of micro-level sanctions, such as turning off Apple and Google Pay, and also Visa and MasterCard. Other examples are major shipping companies refusing to service Russia, Boeing denying parts and service for Russian planes, and Intel+AMD+TSMC refusing to provide microchips. All of these are like the proverbial pieces of straw on the camel's back. It's hard to know if one, or some combination, will be a back-breaker, but they're worth watching because I don't think the Kremlin could have anticipated all of them.
3. What's happening with oligarchs.
So far all the reports I've seen about oligarchs shows them walking a fine line. Some have called for negotiations and peace, but in a way that avoids directly contravening Putin. BUT, actions speak louder than words. And today Roman Abramovich has put Chelsea Football Club up for sale and committed to put any profits into a fund for Ukraine relief. Anyone who follows football understands what a huge development this is, and how much pressure Abramovich must be feeling to give up one of his prize possessions. It's my understanding he feared sanctions or seizure and that motivated him to sell while he still could. So I'll be watching what happens to other oligarchs and how much pressure and pain is brought to bear. To what extent they can influence Putin is unclear, at this point, but losing their support would be a significant development.
Just my two-cents worth about stuff that might be worth watching. Hoping and praying for the safety of Ukraine!
[QUOTE=Wanking;2669766]So I've been going to Germany alot for sex for nearly 20 years.
I had constantly thought about visiting Ukraine / Kiev but never got around to it. Lack of all day sex clubs like they have in Germany put me off, among a few other things.
Any any update on HulaHoops and his crew? Hope they are safe.[/QUOTE]I'm sure by now their knee deep in cheap pussy by now? What could possibly be stopping them? Wherever they are hope their safe after making some very bad choices!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2669710]1. Rumors or info about Putin's physical or mental health.
I've seen speculation about Putin having some kind of serious physical ailment.[/QUOTE]You have to read between the lines of both USA and Russian propaganda, not just one side. Another possibility is that Putin is acting crazy with threats of nuclear war to get the USA to finally take his demands seriously. From the Russian military point of view, demanding that Ukraine remain permanently neutral or aligned with Russia (thus not in NATO or EU, both of which will eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe) is not unreasonable. This issue goes back to 2008 and Russians have lost patience at being ignored so long.
IMO, USA and Ukraine have both been very foolish to be so obstinate about this issue. Capitulating to Russia's demands on this issue is probably the best way to end this war quickly. Russian military doesn't care about the suffering of Russian oligarchs or Russian people, and only Russian military can carry out a coup.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2669891]You have to read between the lines of both USA and Russian propaganda, not just one side. Another possibility is that Putin is acting crazy with threats of nuclear war to get the USA to finally take his demands seriously. From the Russian military point of view, demanding that Ukraine remain permanently neutral or aligned with Russia (thus not in NATO or EU, both of which will eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe) is not unreasonable. This issue goes back to 2008 and Russians have lost patience at being ignored so long.
IMO, USA and Ukraine have both been very foolish to be so obstinate about this issue. Capitulating to Russia's demands on this issue is probably the best way to end this war quickly. Russian military doesn't care about the suffering of Russian oligarchs or Russian people, and only Russian military can carry out a coup.[/QUOTE]The reason this happened is because Putin saw the West as weak. Thanks to Donald Trump, American democracy is as weak and divided as its ever been. He drove a wedge between the world's most powerful democracy and its NATO allies. And he sucked up to one of the world's most dangerous dictators. This is why we have war! Peace through strength. And war through weakness! Putin wants Russia to be a great nation? Then it should act like one then.
It can begin by stop threatening its neighbors. This is why they don't like Russia and seek to join NATO. Putin should stop poisoning his political opposition. And dissidents must stop "falling" out of windows. There's a start to "making Russia great again". Ultimately nothing good comes from kissing a dictator's ass. No, if Putin isn't careful, he's going to have his Ruskie ass handed to him on a platter. Maybe even by his own people. It isn't just the oligarchs getting slammed. The everyday Russian is being hurt too. And, it's only just getting started.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2669891]You have to read between the lines of both USA and Russian propaganda, not just one side. Another possibility is that Putin is acting crazy with threats of nuclear war to get the USA to finally take his demands seriously. From the Russian military point of view, demanding that Ukraine remain permanently neutral or aligned with Russia (thus not in NATO or EU, both of which will eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe) is not unreasonable. This issue goes back to 2008 and Russians have lost patience at being ignored so long.
IMO, USA and Ukraine have both been very foolish to be so obstinate about this issue. Capitulating to Russia's demands on this issue is probably the best way to end this war quickly. Russian military doesn't care about the suffering of Russian oligarchs or Russian people, and only Russian military can carry out a coup.[/QUOTE]
Obstinate and foolish about freedom? You must not live in a free country if you do not understand. We will kill and die before we give up freedom. If you think that is obstinate than you must not have freedom. we will kill and die for freedom, we have 20,000 nuclear warheads that have "live free or die" stamped on them. People of Ukraine made a choice that they would put their lives to preserve their "freedom". That is how much they like being free. The second you give into demands of a foreign power that is not offering something in return then you have given away your freedom.
European democracies do not and The United States of America does not do "capitulating" to dictators. That is called "appeasment" and people saw what happened when people appeased Hitler after he rolled into Poland. Nonappeasement has been the center of all foreign policy of democaracies ever since - it is not done. That history lesson was learned by eveyone and no country lets a foreigner dictator make their foreign policy. Putin knows this becuase he is not stupid. The United States and NATO have a nuclear arsonal too.
Anyone paying attention knows that his access to that graft got cut off in 2014 after they ran the corrupt Putin puppet our of the country in a popular uprising. That is exactly what happen and then money stopped flowing to Putin. Putin wants economic gain - not 'security' (his nuclear arsonal is all the security he needs) that is why the western countries are making him pay economically.
So if you really want to read between the lines the question becomes is Putin suicidal? Are the Russian military Suicidal? - when he starts making nuclear threats that is suicidal talk - if he uses a nuclear weapon then Moscow will go up in a thermal vacum next- so are we to assume he has the mentality of an emotionally unstable suicidal teenager becasuse no one listens to his unstable demands?
Putin knew that no one was going to give into his "demands" for the reasons I just listed, so his demands were bullshit cover. no one gives in to appeasement , and he is smart so if Putin really wanted to get Ukraine to do something would have used his intelligence to "persuade" the Ukrainians through trade and incentives, Russia is not a filthy rich country but they have things to offer, but he does not choose this path. Instead he chose threats. He is not being honest about what he really wants or he would not ask for unrealistic things. He is not stupid. So most people will say that the reasons he gives for invading are not the real reasons and even if appeasement was an option it would not matter.
[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2669850]Not much to report, some explosions in Kyiv but we are safe. Travelling to the border right now is not feasible. Russians have promised safe exit to civilians but of course one has to dodge shelling and missile fire. We are fine, staying away from angry Ukrainians and keeping our head down. No mongering to be had and it is not on our mind. Other Ukrainians are still somewhat suspicious of us. Blaming us for our countries not intervening however we are avoiding them and they have stopped attacking us. Such a shame that a country like this has become useless for mongering.[/QUOTE]Expect the Russians to try to encircle Kyiv over the next week. If you hear of fighting around Boryspil airport, then the encirclement is almost complete. After the encirclement, you have no chance of getting out of Kyiv without Russian approval. At that point, there will be a siege, unless Kyiv surrenders immediately, and things will become very unpleasant.
If there is still a chance to get out, you might want to take it now. There may be random shelling along the way, but there is going to be massive shelling in Kyiv soon.
Unless the Russian army fails to encircle Kyiv, that would be a world changing event, like Stalingrad.
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2670040]Obstinate about freedom? You must not live in a free country if you do not understand. We will kill and die before we give up freedom. If you think that is obstinate than you must not have freedom.. The second you give into demands of a foreign power that is not offering something in return. You have given away your freedom..[/QUOTE]Obstinate about freedom in the Land of the Free gets you cancelled and labelled a domestic terrorist. And, no, this has nothing to do with political parties, or which one is occupying the POTUS Office. Your people who would 'kill and die' before giving up their freedoms have surrendered to a vaccine mandate and submitted to a government that represents corporate interests and the oligarchs and not the interests of The People. Don't be naively taken in and misdirected by interests that only want to make Ukraine safe for capitalist exploitation. And, no, this has nothing to do with socialist communism -- that's been consigned to the dustbin of history a generation ago. Freedom starts at home. If you cared about freedom, you wouldn't let these bandits steal your mojo, you'd take care of your own business instead of minding someone else's.
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2670040]Obstinate about freedom? You must not live in a free country if you do not understand. We will kill and die before we give up freedom. If you think that is obstinate than you must not have freedom.. The second you give into demands of a foreign power that is not offering something in return. You have given away your freedom..[/QUOTE]Obstinate about freedom, in the Land of the Free gets you cancelled and labelled a domestic terrorist. And, no, this has nothing to do with political parties, or which one is occupying the POTUS Office. Your people who would 'kill and die' before giving up their freedoms have surrendered to a vaccine mandate and submitted to a government that represents corporate interests and the oligarchs and not the interests of The People. Don't be naively taken and misdirected by interests that only want to make Ukraine safe for capitalist exploitation. And, no, this has nothing to do with socialist communism -- that's been consigned to the dustbin of history a generation ago. Freedom starts at home. If you cared about freedom, you wouldn't let these bandits steal your mojo, you'd take care of your own business instead of minding someone else's.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2669891]You have to read between the lines of both USA and Russian propaganda, not just one side. Another possibility is that Putin is acting crazy with threats of nuclear war to get the USA to finally take his demands seriously. From the Russian military point of view, demanding that Ukraine remain permanently neutral or aligned with Russia (thus not in NATO or EU, both of which will eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe) is not unreasonable. This issue goes back to 2008 and Russians have lost patience at being ignored so long.
IMO, USA and Ukraine have both been very foolish to be so obstinate about this issue. Capitulating to Russia's demands on this issue is probably the best way to end this war quickly. Russian military doesn't care about the suffering of Russian oligarchs or Russian people, and only Russian military can carry out a coup.[/QUOTE]Almost anything is theoretically "possible" but, without evidence, it's pure speculation. And the problem with reading between the lines is that it's all to easy to see what you want to see. That's why my post gives specific areas in which I'm scanning the news and looking for concrete evidence.
Also, the state of the evidence right now indicates that things are not proceeding in a way that's favorable for Putin. What he thought would be a quick operation has turned into a quagmire. As to Russia's demands, the current state of affairs has essentially flushed the status quo ante down the toilet, along with Russia's previous list of demands. Right now the Ukrainians would rather die defending their land rather than give in to Putin. And the US is fine with supporting Ukraine and squeezing Russia with "death by a thousand cuts" sanctions.
There's no question that Russia can militarily prevail, eventually. But at what cost and will they (Russia) bleed out economically during the meantime? And what happens if Russia takes Kyiv? Putin's idea that Russian domination would be welcomed has been exposed as a fantasy. So that means that any occupation would require force, which means continued costs for pariah-state Russia and never-ending sanctions.
In other words, in all the probable (as opposed to possible) end-scenarios, I don't see any that end well for Putin. And, as far as a coup is concerned, there are various powerful individuals and groups in Russia who I'm sure are quite imaginative. But, even without a coup, what happens if the Russian military experiences unacceptable losses, or desertions, or both? Putin has certainly surrounded himself with a personal Praetorian Guard, but those who are personally loyal to him are not enough to get the job done in Ukraine. Putin is a strongman dictator, which means that weakness or failure will inevitably lead to his demise.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2669943]The reason this happened is because Putin saw the West as weak. Thanks to Donald Trump, American democracy is as weak and divided as its ever been. He drove a wedge between the world's most powerful democracy and its NATO allies. And he sucked up to one of the world's most dangerous dictators. This is why we have war! Peace through strength. And war through weakness! Putin wants Russia to be a great nation? Then it should act like one then.
It can begin by stop threatening its neighbors. This is why they don't like Russia and seek to join NATO. Putin should stop poisoning his political opposition. And dissidents must stop "falling" out of windows. There's a start to "making Russia great again". Ultimately nothing good comes from kissing a dictator's ass. No, if Putin isn't careful, he's going to have his Ruskie ass handed to him on a platter. Maybe even by his own people. It isn't just the oligarchs getting slammed. The everyday Russian is being hurt too. And, it's only just getting started.[/QUOTE]I'm doubtful that any current or recent president (Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden) would have had any material effect on Putin's ambition to rebuild Greater Russia. Over the years Putin has said on many occasions that the dissolution of the Soviet Union was a great tragedy. His desire to reverse that event meant that it was only a matter of time and that which country he chose (Ukraine, Poland, Baltics) would be only a matter of which opportunity presented itself first.
FYI, I saw an interview with Garry Kasparov, Russian dissident and former world chess champion, in which he blamed Obama for showing weakness when he proclaimed a "red line" in Syria (over use of chemical weapons) and then failed to do anything when it was crossed. In Kasparov's view, that showed Putin that tough talk was unlikely to be backed up by action. Not trying to start a political debate, since that doesn't serve much purpose right now, but just showing that there's no shortage of people at whom we can point the finger.
So, while it might make people on the left or right feel better to blame one politician or the other, IMO this has been brewing for a long time and Putin was going to do what he wanted, no matter what.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2670079]I'm doubtful that any current or recent president (Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden) would have had any material effect on Putin's ambition to rebuild Greater Russia. Over the years Putin has said on many occasions that the dissolution of the Soviet Union was a great tragedy. His desire to reverse that event meant that it was only a matter of time and that which country he chose (Ukraine, Poland, Baltics) would be only a matter of which opportunity presented itself first.
FYI, I saw an interview with Garry Kasparov, Russian dissident and former world chess champion, in which he blamed Obama for showing weakness when he proclaimed a "red line" in Syria (over use of chemical weapons) and then failed to do anything when it was crossed. In Kasparov's view, that showed Putin that tough talk was unlikely to be backed up by action. Not trying to start a political debate, since that doesn't serve much purpose right now, but just showing that there's no shortage of people at whom we can point the finger.
So, while it might make people on the left or right feel better to blame one politician or the other, IMO this has been brewing for a long time and Putin was going to do what he wanted, no matter what.[/QUOTE]First of all yes, Putin is one of the last commies in power left who thinks that the demise of the Soviet Union was a bad thing. I know that the majority of the people who lived under the thumb of the Soviet Union, including the Russian people themselves, don't agree him. And yes again, Obama showed absolute weakness when his "red line" in Syria was crossed, and then he did nothing (I saw the same interview). But the four years of the Trump presidency caused considerably more damage and only exacerbated things, and can't be simply glossed over as inconsequential and having no significant influence on what has happened. As I said, he damaged the strongest democracy the world has ever known and energized damaging division within his own country, he drove a dangerous wedge between America and its NATO allies, and he kissed up to Putin and the Ruskies in a way that no other American president [B]ever[/B] has. It was really truly stunning to watch it. Now please understand me well. My comments are not about "left" and "right". No, they are about "Trumpism" and the incredible damage its done to America and the world. It will be much studied and written about. You're damn right the Ruskies wanted Trump in power and did things to help make that happen. "Russia if you're listening"! (Remember who said that? Putin had to love it). No my friend, this is not about left and right. In fact, a couple of guys on the right were 100% correct. "Peace through strength" (Ronald Reagan) and "I looked in his eyes and saw three letters: KGB" (John McCain).
Pornhub and onlyfans turned off for Russia. Game Over?
Jesus. Talk about a weapon of mass destruction.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2670141] As I said, he damaged the strongest democracy the world has ever known and energized damaging division within his own country, he drove a dangerous wedge between America and its NATO allies, and he kissed up to Putin and the Ruskies in a way that no other American president [B]ever[/B] has. It was really truly stunning to watch it. [/QUOTE]Yep, during his presidency, I saw a wtf?
If trump was able to be just as strong against our allies, as to putin, we'd be okay but that was not the case as well as I had another wtf, when the trump lovers didn't ever seem to see that.
If he also could have been more to putin, the same way he was with China, we'd have been better off too. China just waited until his 4 yrs were up.
It was just too odd, it felt like putin had something on him, as if trump would be capable of being embarassed by something.
when trump was pressured to check with putin about the allegations of bounties on usa troops, trump deflected/protected russia. that was disgusting.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2670079]I'm doubtful that any current or recent president (Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden) would have had any material effect on Putin's ambition to rebuild Greater Russia. . His desire to reverse that event meant that it was only a matter of time and that which country.[/QUOTE]I'm doubtful that any recent president or the (only) current one would have had any material effect on the ambitions of the neocons and dual loyalists in control of US foreign policy to effect regime change in Russia in order to control and exploit their natural resources and economy. Their desire and policy meant it was only a matter of time before they instigated another war on Russia's border.
Nord Stream 2 LOL.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2670060]Obstinate about freedom, in the Land of the Free gets you cancelled and labelled a domestic terrorist. And, no, this has nothing to do with political parties, or which one is occupying the POTUS Office. Your people who would 'kill and die' before giving up their freedoms have surrendered to a vaccine mandate and submitted to a government that represents corporate interests and the oligarchs and not the interests of The People. Don't be naively taken and misdirected by interests that only want to make Ukraine safe for capitalist exploitation. And, no, this has nothing to do with socialist communism -- that's been consigned to the dustbin of history a generation ago. Freedom starts at home. If you cared about freedom, you wouldn't let these bandits steal your mojo, you'd take care of your own business instead of minding someone else's.[/QUOTE]No body has stolen my mojo it is in fine form but thank you for the concern. But I do not understand why you responded to my comment. You seem to want to change the subject. I was stating a fact that no demacracy gives into appeasement of a dictator. You seem to be worried about other things. Vaccines and being accused of being a terrorist. And I feel for you, you seem to have genuine complaints. Its just that I am not under any mandate to get a vaccine and no one is calling me a terrorist. But I am sorry that you have to deal with these problems. I am still going to have to stick to my original point though. It is a fact that no democracy is going to turn their foreign policy over to the demands of a spoiled brat dictator.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2669891]You have to read between the lines of both USA and Russian propaganda, not just one side. Another possibility is that Putin is acting crazy with threats of nuclear war to get the USA to finally take his demands seriously. From the Russian military point of view, demanding that Ukraine remain permanently neutral or aligned with Russia (thus not in NATO or EU, both of which will eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe) is not unreasonable. This issue goes back to 2008 and Russians have lost patience at being ignored so long.
IMO, USA and Ukraine have both been very foolish to be so obstinate about this issue. Capitulating to Russia's demands on this issue is probably the best way to end this war quickly. Russian military doesn't care about the suffering of Russian oligarchs or Russian people, and only Russian military can carry out a coup.[/QUOTE]Right, this is why Putin is methodically leveling Kiev - "the mother of all Russian cities" - and Kharkiv where there are more ethnic Russians than Ukrainians. Because he's scared of NATO. Yeah, it's totally not unreasonable to demand that an independent country disarm (having peaceful Russia as a neighbor, no less) and also spread its legs and butt-cheeks while it's at it.
You wouldn't be working for RT by any chance, would you? Because you're spreading the same garbage.
I've heard that garbage before.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2670141]First of all yes, Putin is one of the last commies in power left who thinks that the demise of the Soviet Union was a bad thing. I know that the majority of the people who lived under the thumb of the Soviet Union, including the Russian people themselves, don't agree him. And yes again, Obama showed absolute weakness when his "red line" in Syria was crossed, and then he did nothing (I saw the same interview). But the four years of the Trump presidency caused considerably more damage and only exacerbated things, and can't be simply glossed over as inconsequential and having no significant influence on what has happened. As I said, he damaged the strongest democracy the world has ever known and energized damaging division within his own country, he drove a dangerous wedge between America and its NATO allies, and he kissed up to Putin and the Ruskies in a way that no other American president [B]ever[/B] has. It was really truly stunning to watch it. Now please understand me well. My comments are not about "left" and "right". No, they are about "Trumpism" and the incredible damage its done to America and the world. It will be much studied and written about. You're damn right the Ruskies wanted Trump in power and did things to help make that happen. "Russia if you're listening"! (Remember who said that? Putin had to love it). No my friend, this is not about left and right. In fact, a couple of guys on the right were 100% correct. "Peace through strength" (Ronald Reagan) and "I looked in his eyes and saw three letters: KGB" (John McCain).[/QUOTE]But my point is simply that Putin's mentality and ambition long preceded Trump and that, had Trump never become president, Putin's trajectory would have remained the same.
So, since this has been stewing in Putin's noggin since probably the early 90's, looking for a causal event in the last few years runs the risk of being influenced by recency bias.
Whether one hates Trump and blames him for all the ills of the world, or does the same with Obama or Biden, the fact remains that Putin was going to go down this path no matter what. So whoever happened to be president of the US, or France, or PM of the UK, or Chancellor of Germany, is essentially irrelevant because no one was going to prevent Putin from trying to reclaim the glory of Greater Russia.
The only possible way a former or current world leader might have made a material difference is if he or she had successfully brought about regime change in Russia. But that was never in the cards and never seriously discussed, until now.
So feel free to blame Trump, while others blame Bush, Obama, or Biden. As far as I'm concerned, you're all equally correct, and equally wrong. That's because I still maintain that none of those leaders would have changed the reality Ukraine faces today.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2670141]First of all yes, Putin is one of the last commies in power left who thinks that the demise of the Soviet Union was a bad thing. I know that the majority of the people who lived under the thumb of the Soviet Union, including the Russian people themselves, don't agree him. And yes again, Obama showed absolute weakness when his "red line" in Syria was crossed, and then he did nothing (I saw the same interview). But the four years of the Trump presidency caused considerably more damage and only exacerbated things, and can't be simply glossed over as inconsequential and having no significant influence on what has happened. As I said, he damaged the strongest democracy the world has ever known and energized damaging division within his own country, he drove a dangerous wedge between America and its NATO allies, and he kissed up to Putin and the Ruskies in a way that no other American president [B]ever[/B] has. It was really truly stunning to watch it. Now please understand me well. My comments are not about "left" and "right". No, they are about "Trumpism" and the incredible damage its done to America and the world. It will be much studied and written about. You're damn right the Ruskies wanted Trump in power and did things to help make that happen. "Russia if you're listening"! (Remember who said that? Putin had to love it). No my friend, this is not about left and right. In fact, a couple of guys on the right were 100% correct. "Peace through strength" (Ronald Reagan) and "I looked in his eyes and saw three letters: KGB" (John McCain).[/QUOTE]Let's get one thing straight here after that drivel you wrote.
100% of this situation falls at the feet of Biden and the fools he has surrounded himself with.
There is zero blame on trump or Obama.
Weak losers blame others for their mistakes and failures.
Biden has had 15 months to steer this in a totally different direction.
The Ukrainian people are paying a price now because Biden is a useless tool.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2670079]Not trying to start a political debate, since that doesn't serve much purpose right now, but just showing that there's no shortage of people at whom we can point the finger.
[/QUOTE]IMO, political debate absolutely serves a purpose now. Ukraine is about to be destroyed and USA is going to be severely weakened if Russia is handed over to the Chinese. We need to discuss what, if anything, went wrong in order to know what to do next.
I'm completely in agreement with John Mearsheimer ([URL]https://www.mearsheimer.com/[/URL]) that Ukraine was terribly mishandled by the USA, starting in 2008 (G W Bush / Dick Cheney administration). What should have been done is declare that NATO and EU would eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe, which would never include Ukraine, and that Finland, Baltic States and Moldova would be kept demilitarized provided Russia kept Kaliningrad enclave, western Belarus and western Ukraine demilitarized. Nice clean division between west and east Europe, with a demilitarized buffer zone in between. Good fences make good neighbors.
I have no doubt the Ukrainians are brave, determined, filled with angry energy, and thus will fight like lions. Problem is, lions are stupid animals, and what is needed now is not physical courage but rstger brains and moral courage, meaning the courage to make unpopular decisions.
The argument that "we" don't appease dictators is keyboard warrior talk. USA most definitely "appeased" Stalin when it allowed him to swallow up the Baltic States and eastern Europe. USA "appeased" China / Russia by allowing a division of Korea and then a division of Vietnam, before we threw in the towel completely on Vietnam. USA "appeased" China regarding Tibet. USA "appeased" Russia when Russia invaded Georgia and USA did nothing but issue some ineffective sanctions, then same story with Crimea. Etc. USA picks its battles and it walks away when the situation is hopeless, which is normal behavior in the real world, though maybe not in keyboard warrior land.
If Ukrainians really are fully prepared to die, see their family and friends die, and see their country bombed into rubble, before they concede anything to Russia, well okay, it's their lives and their country. Problem I see is that Ukrainians don't actually think this, but have become confused by big words like "appeasement" and "sovereign" (as in "sovereign right to decide their own future") so that they can't think straight. In particular, they haven't really thought about which hill they are truly prepared to die on.
I understand that Ukrainians don't like living under Russia's boot. But the Russian people have it worse, because they are directly under Putin's control, rather than at one remove from Putin. And the ancestors of both modern Ukrainians and modern Russians lived under Stalin's boot and the Tsar's boot before that. The Chinese people live under a more fiendishly repressive regime than than of Stalin, while North Korea makes China look like paradise. Most of Africa is worse than Russia. Etc, etc.
Right now, Ukrainians are taking an enormous risk, hoping they can frustrate Russia long enough to cause a coup and whoever replaces Putin will cancel the invasion. If this plan works, great. Otherwise, Ukraine could end up economically destroyed and presided over by some thug puppet ruler who makes Putin look like a nice guy. This is what happened to Chechnya. Downside risk is very high, odds very poor. Best course of action is thus to simply give Putin everything he wants, so that the bleeding is stopped and Ukraine can begin the difficult work of repairing all the damage. If the keyboard warriors don't like this, let them personally infiltrate Russia and attempt to assassinate Putin, but stop playing games with other people's lives.
[QUOTE=Vagabundo1;2670199]Pornhub and onlyfans turned off for Russia. Game Over?
Jesus. Talk about a weapon of mass destruction.[/QUOTE]If you don't mind I'll steal your post and post it in Opinions American politics. Thanks.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2670302]But my point is simply that Putin's mentality and ambition long preceded Trump and that, had Trump never become president, Putin's trajectory would have remained the same.
So, since this has been stewing in Putin's noggin since probably the early 90's, looking for a causal event in the last few years runs the risk of being influenced by recency bias.
Whether one hates Trump and blames him for all the ills of the world, or does the same with Obama or Biden, the fact remains that Putin was going to go down this path no matter what. So whoever happened to be president of the US, or France, or PM of the UK, or Chancellor of Germany, is essentially irrelevant because no one was going to prevent Putin from trying to reclaim the glory of Greater Russia.
The only possible way a former or current world leader might have made a material difference is if he or she had successfully brought about regime change in Russia. But that was never in the cards and never seriously discussed, until now.
So feel free to blame Trump, while others blame Bush, Obama, or Biden. As far as I'm concerned, you're all equally correct, and equally wrong. That's because I still maintain that none of those leaders would have changed the reality Ukraine faces today.[/QUOTE]And Obama's inability (or lack of desire) to adequately confront him back in 2014 was a profound and costly mistake.
But Trump's incessant, baffling and, quite frankly, nauseating bootlicking has certainly emboldened him to a huge degree.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2670141]First of all yes, Putin is one of the last commies in power left who thinks that the demise of the Soviet Union was a bad thing. I know that the majority of the people who lived under the thumb of the Soviet Union, including the Russian people themselves, don't agree him. And yes again, Obama showed absolute weakness when his "red line" in Syria was crossed, and then he did nothing (I saw the same interview). [/QUOTE]Three things.
1. Let's not forget who was screaming at the top of their lungs against pulling America into yet another war (we were already involved in two others).
[QUOTE]Republicans, in particular, have turned against Syrian airstrikes. A week ago, Republicans were divided about evenly: 35% favored and 40% opposed military airstrikes in response to the governments alleged use of chemical weapons. Today, Republicans oppose airstrikes by an overwhelming 70% to 21% margin, with 51% saying they are strongly opposed.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2013/09/09/opposition-to-syrian-airstrikes-surges[/URL]
2. Let's also remember that President went ahead and asked the authorization from Congress.
[QUOTE]So when the president stepped into the sunny Rose Garden that Saturday morning, he announced that he had made two decisions: first, that the U.S. should act against Syria, and second, that he would seek explicit authorization from Congress to do so. With that, the administration set out on a different campaign than the military one we had been preparing for: to convince the American people that intervening in Syria was in the countrys interest.
What transpired over the next month was one of the most controversial and revealing episodes in eight years of Obamas foreign policy. Despite the administrations strong advocacy and support from a small minority of hawkish politicians, Congress and the American people proved strongly opposed to the use of force.[/QUOTE]3. Let's also remember that ASSAD AND THE RUSSIANS did cave in.
[QUOTE]In the end, however, the threat of military action and a surprise offer by Russia ended up achieving something no one had imagined possible: the peaceful removal of 1,300 tons of Syrias chemical weapons (there have been reports of stray weapons and widespread use of industrial chemicals like chlorine, but no evidence of systematic deception on the part of the Syrian government).
By October 2013, without a bomb being dropped, the Bashar Assad regime had admitted having a massive chemical weapons program it had never before acknowledged, agreed to give it up and submitted to a multinational coalition that removed and destroyed the deadly trove. From my perspective at the Pentagon, this seemed like an incontrovertible, if inelegant, example of what academics call coercive diplomacy, using the threat of force to achieve an outcome military power itself could not even accomplish.[/QUOTE]Of course, as soon as the military option was off the table, repubs immediately changed their tune, but that's what they always do. Can a leopard change its spots?
The point is that removing chemical weapons from Syria was a huge victory for the US and the world. It's amazing that so many people think of it as a defeat after everything that was acomplished.
[QUOTE]According to U.S. estimates, at more than 1,300 metric tons spread out over as many as 45 sites in a country about twice the size of Virginia, Syrias arsenal of chemical weapons in 2013 was the worlds third-largest. It was 10 times greater than the CIAs (erroneous) 2002 estimate of Iraqs chemical weapons stash, and 50 times larger than the arsenal Libya declared it had in late 2011. Because of the size and scope of the threat, Syrias chemical weapons were the administrations top concern during the first several years of the crisis.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/obama-syria-foreign-policy-red-line-revisited-214059/[/URL]
The same can't be said about Obama's reaction to Russia's aggression in 2014, which was muted and weak, but blaming him for Syria is not fair at all.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2670533]
But Trump's incessant, baffling and, quite frankly, nauseating bootlicking has certainly emboldened him to a huge degree.[/QUOTE]Blaming Trump for the actions of Putin is like blaming Biden for the botched Afghanistan withdrawal after a 20 year occupation. Or Blaming Trump or Biden for Americas 900,000+ COVID deaths.
There's nothing one man can do, to avoid any of this stuff. American politicians only give a damn about one thing: re-election.
[QUOTE=Bill1963;2670349]Let's get one thing straight here after that drivel you wrote. There is zero blame on trump. Weak losers blame others for their mistakes and failures.[/QUOTE]Talk about some drivel. And Donald Chump did plenty of just that. Blaming other people for anything and everything and not owning up to his own failings for four solid years. It got him impeached twice he was so bad. The man was the worst president in American history because he didn't respect nor live up to our democratic standards and ideals. He didn't even try to. He had nothing but admiration for strong man dictators around the world, and still does. Five year-old accountability:
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYr2XteXUB8[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2670302]But my point is simply that Putin's mentality and ambition long preceded Trump and that, had Trump never become president, Putin's trajectory would have remained the same.[/QUOTE]May I please borrow your crystal ball? Or, at least tell me where you got yours. So I can go and get me one too.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670418]IMO, political debate absolutely serves a purpose now. Ukraine is about to be destroyed and USA is going to be severely weakened if Russia is handed over to the Chinese. We need to discuss what, if anything, went wrong in order to know what to do next.
I'm completely in agreement with John Mearsheimer ([URL]https://www.mearsheimer.com/[/URL]) that Ukraine was terribly mishandled by the USA, starting in 2008 (G W Bush / Dick Cheney administration). What should have been done is declare that NATO and EU would eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe, which would never include Ukraine, and that Finland, Baltic States and Moldova would be kept demilitarized provided Russia kept Kaliningrad enclave, western Belarus and western Ukraine demilitarized. Nice clean division between west and east Europe, with a demilitarized buffer zone in between. Good fences make good neighbors.
I have no doubt the Ukrainians are brave, determined, filled with angry energy, and thus will fight like lions. Problem is, lions are stupid animals, and what is needed now is not physical courage but rstger brains and moral courage, meaning the courage to make unpopular decisions..[/QUOTE]Was meant primarily with Ukrainians in mind. For any who are sitting in a comfortable chair, and typing on a keyboard in the warmth of a nicely heated and illuminated abode, feel free to analyze, pseudo-analyze, blame, pontificate, justify, or whatever, to your heart's content.
But such activities have little point or worth for people who are dodging bullets and bombs. For them it's about survival. And it's those unfortunates who are uppermost in my concerns.
I just saw that Bolton said. If Trump would have won his re election. He would have pulled the USA out of NATO.
And that is what Putin wanted. So, he could put the USSR back together. WOW.
[QUOTE=Rocko20;2670542]Blaming Trump for the actions of Putin is like blaming Biden for the botched Afghanistan withdrawal after a 20 year occupation. Or Blaming Trump or Biden for Americas 900,000+ COVID deaths.
There's nothing one man can do, to avoid any of this stuff. American politicians only give a damn about one thing: re-election.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2670533]And Obama's inability (or lack of desire) to adequately confront him back in 2014 was a profound and costly mistake.
But Trump's incessant, baffling and, quite frankly, nauseating bootlicking has certainly emboldened him to a huge degree.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_7tA9lesNo[/URL]
I recently found this video (about 10 minutes) in which Niall Ferguson (noted author and historian) gives his assessment. He specifically points the finger at mistakes made by Obama, Trump, Biden, and Merkel. I'm sure that list could be expanded but the point is that many bear a degree of responsibility. What percentage you choose to assign to any individual politician is really a subjective decision. But it was essentially a synergy of failures and they're all accountable for not doing enough to thwart Putin.
Even so, I keep coming back to my point that Putin was never going to be deterred because this is a crusade for him. It's always been a question of when, not if. And, if you took Merkel out of the equation and inserted a hardliner, or took Trump away and inserted Clinton, we'd still be arriving at the same place. The ONLY thing that would have stopped Putin is if he'd been deposed or killed, nothing else. Unfortunately, since Russia is a nuclear power, eliminating Putin (from the outside) has never been in the cards.
America is to blame for this shtt show. The Democrats, the party of Orgy Island and small dick syndrome. Hunter Biden etc. Rusisans are pounding (with lead) the Nazis who are rotting on the streets for dogs to feed on. XPartan and others should take their tin foils off, put a tin hat on and join up.
As Scarlet O'Hara might have said: War over, the price of pussy is going to go sky high this year.
[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2670291]I didn't mean to offend anyone.
As I've said before, when we came we didn't expect Putin to invade. We just assumed he was talking nonsense. Now of course that he invaded, I am the first to admit we made a terrible decision. If my reports, help others that are stuck in the country or who may have even considered coming here then at least I helped one person.
I am sure there are many people who read this thread but don't reply that had the same idea as us and may even still be in the country.
To any foreign volunteer: do not believe the Ukrainian propaganda! The military situation in Ukraine is dire, the media will have you think that Ukraine is winning. That is not the case whatsoever! Please be careful.[/QUOTE]
What news I watch has not had media reports saying that Ukraine is winning. I watch major news orginzations like Reuters and BBC and there is not media reports saying that Ukraine is winning. None. I do not know where others get their news. All people are saying is that Ukrainians are putting up a better fight than Russian thought they would but not under any delusion that they are are winning. The foreign fighters who go there are doing so on moral grounds and I hope they have some understanding that what they will need to do is guerrilla warfare because that is what needs to be happening right now. Ukrainians cannot hope to match the Russians on convententional terms. No one I read is saying they are winning.
I was ultralight infantry and we studied guerrilla warfare. Yes I should not be armchair quarterbacking because I am not ont he ground, but I heard that the Ukraine military called for their forces to go guerrilla warfare. I was light infantry for 6 years. We studied and practiced how to operate and move in small groups to be undetected and then link up and do larger operations. Although that depends on woods for cover too. They need to send them some on-off road scooters, or dual sport motorcycles (muffle the shit out of them) and have a guy on the back with a rocket launcher. And do fast attack and stick and run techiniques. Smaller quicker agile groups can do damage with those Javelins (shoulder operated missile) we are sending them and some RPGs. They could do link up operations where 30 or 40 of them meet up near the Russian formation on On-off road dual sport motorcycles and hit them hard and then escape cross country throught the trees. If I was 20 years younger I would conisder going there myself.
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2670644]What news I watch has not had media reports saying that Ukraine is winning. I watch major news orginzations like Reuters and BBC and there is not media reports saying that Ukraine is winning. None. I do not know where others get their news. All people are saying is that Ukrainians are putting up a better fight than Russian thought they would but not under any delusion that they are are winning. The foreign fighters who go there are doing so on moral grounds and I hope they have some understanding that what they will need to do is guerrilla warfare because that is what needs to be happening right now. Ukrainians cannot hope to match the Russians on convententional terms. No one I read is saying they are winning.
I was ultralight infantry and we studied guerrilla warfare. Yes I should not be armchair quarterbacking because I am not ont he ground, but I heard that the Ukraine military called for their forces to go guerrilla warfare. I was light infantry for 6 years. We studied and practiced how to operate and move in small groups to be undetected and then link up and do larger operations. Although that depends on woods for cover too. They need to send them some on-off road scooters, or dual sport motorcycles (muffle the shit out of them) and have a guy on the back with a rocket launcher. And do fast attack and stick and run techiniques. Smaller quicker agile groups can do damage with those Javelins (shoulder operated missile) we are sending them and some RPGs. They could do link up operations where 30 or 40 of them meet up near the Russian formation on On-off road dual sport motorcycles and hit them hard and then escape cross country throught the trees. If I was 20 years younger I would conisder going there myself.[/QUOTE]One scenario that is likely in the future, and somewhat unsettling.
Russia will destroy Ukrainian forces in population centers and it will become a guerilla war (unless Ukraine signs Russia's peace terms). This guerilla war will only be kept alive by NATO countries supplying the guerrillas with weapons. This would leave Russia with no choice but to attack a NATO country directly.
I really think Putin may be senile and completely irrational.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2670586][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_7tA9lesNo[/URL]
I recently found this video (about 10 minutes) in which Niall Ferguson (noted author and historian) gives his assessment. He specifically points the finger at mistakes made by Obama, Trump, Biden, and Merkel. I'm sure that list could be expanded but the point is that many bear a degree of responsibility. What percentage you choose to assign to any individual politician is really a subjective decision. But it was essentially a synergy of failures and they're all accountable for not doing enough to thwart Putin.
Even so, I keep coming back to my point that Putin was never going to be deterred because this is a crusade for him. It's always been a question of when, not if. And, if you took Merkel out of the equation and inserted a hardliner, or took Trump away and inserted Clinton, we'd still be arriving at the same place. The ONLY thing that would have stopped Putin is if he'd been deposed or killed, nothing else. Unfortunately, since Russia is a nuclear power, eliminating Putin (from the outside) has never been in the cards.[/QUOTE]He's contradicting himself all the time. First he admits that Ukraine is a special project for Putin who's trying to restore the empire. Then in the same breath, he blames Biden for lifting objections to Nord 2 as if that emboldened Russia to invade. Makes no sense. That's not an analyses, that's a collection of soundbites.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2670599]America is to blame for this shtt show. The Democrats, the party of Orgy Island and small dick syndrome. Hunter Biden etc. Rusisans are pounding (with lead) the Nazis who are rotting on the streets for dogs to feed on. XPartan and others should take their tin foils off, put a tin hat on and join up.
As Scarlet O'Hara might have said: War over, the price of pussy is going to go sky high this year.[/QUOTE]Deep breath, comrade. Deep breath.
For donation I saw a lot of different stuff, even people asking to drop money on cards.
I assume there will be also some scam in these demands.
Personally I used this way.
[URL]https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi[/URL]
And I also keep some money to help straight my Ukrainian contacts straight if they need / ask.
I am in regular contact with 5 people, 3 have left to Europe, 2 want to stay in Ukraine with one in Kiev.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2670535]Let's not forget who was screaming at the top of their lungs against pulling America into yet another war (we were already involved in two others).[/QUOTE]So, maybe Obama shouldn't have drawn a line in the sand then. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.
Kyiv UkraineAs shells have begun exploding in the heart of Kyiv, museums have rushed to protect their most prized, valuable pieces: the original artwork of once-in-a-generation talent Hunter Biden.
"The Louvre may have Van Gogh and the Mona Lisa, but here we have Coke On Coke by Hunter Biden," said museum owner Ivan Rostyslav. "I will never forget when he sold us this piece, he said to me, 'Ivan, I don't know how I got here or where my pants are but can you get me to the airport?' Ha! What an artist he is!
According to sources, most of the paintings were initially purchased for the Burisma boardroom with the tacit understanding that then-Vice President Joe Biden would look out for Ukraine. Museum owners waged huge bidding wars to acquire the pieces, knowing that beyond the remarkable art, each painting came with the assurance that the United States would have their back.
"We were lucky to get our hands on Hooked By Hookers, it's quite a popular piece," said curator Viktor Dankevych as he took the piece down for safe storage in a bomb shelter. "But more importantly, we know it means that President Biden will take care of Ukraine in our time of need. I hear the planes overhead, the air raid sirens, I do not panic. I know the United States will come to help."
At publishing time, sources say all of the Biden paintings have been sold on eBay to Taiwan. . .
We will be greeted as liberators his men told Putin. Now, where have we heard that before? Hmmm? Oh yes, I remember now! As the Kremlin sees, it does. Just like with the whole "fake news" fiasco. Don't like it? Just call it "fake."
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEb0VFhrl_k[/URL]
News from my former Russian teacher. Russians bombed her native village about 20 km from Kyiv, maybe because there was some military base nearby. Some bombs hit civilian areas, including a school and orphanage. Another bomb landed near her parent's house and shattered all the windows. Her parents spent 2 days in their basement sheltering from the bombing. While she was in a taxi to Kyiv train station, car in front of the taxi was fired upon. Finally, she got on the train to Lviv, where she is currently in a shelter, with plans to move permanently to Western Europe, where she has friends. She's fully fluent in English herself and used to manage an English language call center, so she should integrate easily.
(It occurred to my suspicious mind that she might be lying about her experiences to get money out of me. She didn't ask for money, but she knows me well enough to know I'd offer to send some. Anyway, I'm very happy with the results of our Russian conversation practice, so the money can be considered delayed payment for services rendered.).
People starting to think Putin's new plan is to simply destroy Ukraine, which will effectively ensure it can't join NATO or EU or have a powerful military, which were 3 of his 5 demands (other are acceptance that Crimea is permanently Russian territory and autonomy for Donbas, both of which are done deeds). Beating the living cr*p out of Ukraine has the additional advantage that no one will forget the lesson (that Russia is not to be messed with) for a long time to come.
It won't be just destroyed buildings. It will also be destroyed economy system, so no money to repair the destroyed buildings, and destroyed social fabric. No money to pay police, so lots of petty street crime plus lots of more serious crime (assassinations, bombings) by gangs armed with powerful weapons. No money for healthcare system, so rampant AIDS and other communicable diseases. Girls with options all gone to other countries. Hardly an attractive place to visit.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2670760]So, maybe Obama shouldn't have drawn a line in the sand then. Say what you mean, and mean what you say.[/QUOTE]But his "line in the sand" helped to rid Assad's regime of its chemical weapon arsenal. Do you have any doubt in your mind that Assad would have used that arsenal to wipe out even more people? My point is, the "line" worked. I honestly don't get why even sensible people believe it was a defeat.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2670851]But his "line in the sand" helped to rid Assad's regime of its chemical weapon arsenal.[/QUOTE]Do you have any evidence he had any arsenal?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2670579]Was meant primarily with Ukrainians in mind. For any who are sitting in a comfortable chair, and typing on a keyboard in the warmth of a nicely heated and illuminated abode, feel free to analyze, pseudo-analyze, blame, pontificate, justify, or whatever, to your heart's content.
But such activities have little point or worth for people who are dodging bullets and bombs. For them it's about survival. And it's those unfortunates who are uppermost in my concerns.[/QUOTE]The single most important thing we can do is precisely to analyze, etc. Ukraine got into this mess because it didn't think. To get out of the mess, it has to start thinking or get help thinking, especially from those of us comfortably sitting outside Ukraine and thus able to keep our minds from getting carried away by emotions.
So far, my attempts to talk sense to Ukrainians have resulted mostly in furious accusations that I'm a Russian troll, followed by banning me from forums. If everyone talking sense is accused of being a troll (and that's what I'm seeing), then Ukraine is truly in bad shape and will likely be dealt with like a stupid, strong and rebellious bull: beaten senseless, a ring put through the nose, maybe castrated to permanently calm it down.
Wringing one's hands about the suffering of the unfortunates is women's work. Men can either fight or think. I don't pretend to be much of a fighter myself. However, I respect those who can and do fight, and I expect them in turn to respect me for my contribution, which is to think. Prior to the invasion, I was thinking and advocating that Ukraine simply capitulate to all of Putin's demands and I still think that's the best way forwards, unless someone can convince me that a coup is going to happen very soon, and that suffering now will be compensated for by a safer and more prosperous future after Putin is gone. I'm ready to believe a coup MIGHT happen, but I have my doubts about it happening soon or that those who take over after Putin will be significantly nicer than him.
Of course, people will laugh at the idea that posting in the "Stupid Shit in Kiev" forum at ISG is helping Ukraine to think. But what else can I do? I was banned as a troll from numerous forums prior to the invasion, and now that the war is on, I'm reluctant to sap morale by planting doubts in the heads of those fighting. Regardless, my role in society, including every organization I ever worked at, was and is to think outside the box, and I do that very well because I don't care about social status. (Which is why it never bothered me to tell people "sure I pay women for sex, because much easier than trying to woo them into giving free sex".) I'm just doing here in this thread what comes naturally to me. Much easier to speak my mind and be condemned for it than be silent.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2670851]But his "line in the sand" helped to rid Assad's regime of its chemical weapon arsenal. Do you have any doubt in your mind that Assad would have used that arsenal to wipe out even more people? My point is, the "line" worked. I honestly don't get why even sensible people believe it was a defeat.[/QUOTE]Well, like most people, I happen to think that it absolutely did not work. And made Obama look quite weak. But hey, thanks for believing that I'm usually more sensible LOL!
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670805]People starting to think Putin's new plan is to simply destroy Ukraine, which will effectively ensure it can't join NATO or EU or have a powerful military, which were 3 of his 5 demands (other are acceptance that Crimea is permanently Russian territory and autonomy for Donbas, both of which are done deeds). Beating the living cr*p out of Ukraine has the additional advantage that no one will forget the lesson (that Russia is not to be messed with) for a long time to come.
It won't be just destroyed buildings. It will also be destroyed economy system, so no money to repair the destroyed buildings, and destroyed social fabric. No money to pay police, so lots of petty street crime plus lots of more serious crime (assassinations, bombings) by gangs armed with powerful weapons. No money for healthcare system, so rampant AIDS and other communicable diseases. Girls with options all gone to other countries. Hardly an attractive place to visit.[/QUOTE]You seemed to be describing the Putin end game that he has achieved or will achieve. The problem is at what cost for Russia. As long as Putin rules Russia, I don't see the West reestablishing normal ties with Russia. Do the Russian people want to go back to isolation and a stagnant economic outlook?
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670418]If Ukrainians really are fully prepared to die, see their family and friends die, and see their country bombed into rubble, before they concede anything to Russia, well okay, it's their lives and their country. Problem I see is that Ukrainians don't actually think this, but have become confused by big words like "appeasement" and "sovereign" (as in "sovereign right to decide their own future") so that they can't think straight. In particular, they haven't really thought about which hill they are truly prepared to die on.[/QUOTE]Hard disagree. Keep in mind that, Russian speaking enclaves aside, the only thing Ukrainians agree on is that they don't want to be under the control of Moscow again, whatever that costs them.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670418]the Russian people have it worse, because they are directly under Putin's control, rather than at one remove from Putin. And the ancestors of both modern Ukrainians and modern Russians lived under Stalin's boot and the Tsar's boot before that. The Chinese people live under a more fiendishly repressive regime than than of Stalin, while North Korea makes China look like paradise. Most of Africa is worse than Russia. Etc, etc.[/QUOTE]Freedom and repression are relative terms, yes, but to suggest that Russians are worse off than, say, Belarusians, because the Belarusians are once removed from Putin's control because Lukashenko is some sort of moderating force is both absurd and patently uninformed.
To suggest that the current Chinese regime is more "fiendishly repressive" than Stalin is similarly misinformed. Sure, the level of surveillance and censorship present in modern day China represents a significant leap over that of the USSR under Stalin, but unlike the USSR during that period, that surveillance and censorship is surgically wielded to protect the political power of the CCCCP and largely ignores matters outside that realm, whereas the cult of personality that rose up around (and fostered by) Stalin endeavored to control every single aspect of society from politics to fashion to love & marriage.
Although it's certainly true that the DPRK makes China look like a paradise, it's precisely because modern China is NOT more repressive than the USSR under Stalin, but rather that the "Juche Ideal" fostered under three generations of Kim leaders represents the cynical perfection of Stalinist thought, elevating the Kim dynasty to god-like status.
Whether, in fact, "Africa is worse than Russia" is back to my point about freedom and repression. Statutorily, most Africans have an enormous amount of personal freedom, arguably more than in many Western nations. Their repression comes at the hands of religion, non-governmental warlords and criminal factions, family, culture, racism, and, most importantly, poverty, which limit the opportunities of individuals to exercise their freedoms. And, let's be honest, most Americans and Europeans struggle to comprehend either the vastness or variety found in Africa and so find it easy to lump its nations together while discounting that the vast majority of African nations and people do not match the established stereotype of malnourished and dusty children bedeviled by flys and famine.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670418]Right now, Ukrainians are taking an enormous risk, hoping they can frustrate Russia long enough to cause a coup and whoever replaces Putin will cancel the invasion. If this plan works, great. Otherwise, Ukraine could end up economically destroyed and presided over by some thug puppet ruler who makes Putin look like a nice guy. This is what happened to Chechnya. Downside risk is very high, odds very poor. Best course of action is thus to simply give Putin everything he wants, so that the bleeding is stopped and Ukraine can begin the difficult work of repairing all the damage. If the keyboard warriors don't like this, let them personally infiltrate Russia and attempt to assassinate Putin, but stop playing games with other people's lives.[/QUOTE]Again, hard disagree. There are a LOT of potential outcomes other than these two. Further, your accurate contention that Kadyrov is a thug puppet ruler directly contradicts your notion that being once removed from Putin is "better."
Potential outcomes I see as realistic:
Ukraine falls to Russia. Puppet regime installed. Current government goes into exile and partisans continue guerilla warfare, with support from West, with no short term success strategy. Emboldened Putin repeats strategy in Baltic States. NATO Article 5 invoked leading to all out war. Nuclear forces potentially in play.
Ukraine falls to Russia. Puppet regime installed. Current government and its remaining military goes into exile in Poland / Hungary / Moldova. Russia pursues Ukrainian forces onto NATO territory leading to all out war. Nuclear forces potentially in play.
Russia solidifies hold on Crimea and the Donbas, annexing the latter and Transnistria. Russian troops withdraw from central and western Ukraine. Putin declares "special military operation" a success, while continuing to garrison large numbers of forces along the new and existing borders. Ukraine and the West recognize the new borders.
Russia withdraws completely from Ukraine except Crimea and the Donbas. Putin declares success and pledges to respect Ukrainian self-determination in exchange for assurances that Ukraine be excluded from NATO and the EU.
Russia reacts to slow progress and setbacks by committing wide-spread and large scale atrocities against civilians which generates groundswell (manufactured or real) of calls for direct military involvement from NATO nations (from no-fly zones to drone attacks to boots on ground). Russian reaction to direct engagement is either to threaten / use nukes to achieve goals like security guarantees or recognition of Russian sovereignty in Crimea / Donbas / Transnistria or use the direct involvement to raise popular support for defense of the motherland at home.
If there is a "coup", it'll be a quiet coup, where Putin resigns citing ill health, or an orchestrated electoral "coup" where he declines to run again. The idea of the Russian military taking direct control of the state, even temporarily, is unlikely unless losses are far worse than even the Ukrainians' most optimistic estimates or if there is an order for a nuclear first strike on NATO.
In any scenario where an independent Ukraine exists, I think it exceedingly likely that the West will use its "victory" as an opportunity to pour money into Ukraine in some sort of modern Marshall Plan with an eye to making them an example of what "could be".
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2670644]What news I watch has not had media reports saying that Ukraine is winning. I watch major news orginzations like Reuters and BBC and there is not media reports saying that Ukraine is winning. None. I do not know where others get their news. All people are saying is that Ukrainians are putting up a better fight than Russian thought they would but not under any delusion that they are are winning. The foreign fighters who go there are doing so on moral grounds and I hope they have some understanding that what they will need to do is guerrilla warfare because that is what needs to be happening right now. Ukrainians cannot hope to match the Russians on convententional terms. No one I read is saying they are winning.
I was ultralight infantry and we studied guerrilla warfare. Yes I should not be armchair quarterbacking because I am not ont he ground, but I heard that the Ukraine military called for their forces to go guerrilla warfare. I was light infantry for 6 years. We studied and practiced how to operate and move in small groups to be undetected and then link up and do larger operations. Although that depends on woods for cover too. They need to send them some on-off road scooters, or dual sport motorcycles (muffle the shit out of them) and have a guy on the back with a rocket launcher. And do fast attack and stick and run techiniques. Smaller quicker agile groups can do damage with those Javelins (shoulder operated missile) we are sending them and some RPGs. They could do link up operations where 30 or 40 of them meet up near the Russian formation on On-off road dual sport motorcycles and hit them hard and then escape cross country throught the trees. If I was 20 years younger I would conisder going there myself.[/QUOTE]Interesting video, US Military Veteran on the war in Ukraine. [URL]https://video.foxnews.com/v/6299099588001/[/URL]#sp=show-clips.
The decorated combat veteran says the USA Should stay out of the conflict in Ukraine, adding it will create a far more severe humanitarian.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670871]The single most important thing we can do is precisely to analyze, etc. [/QUOTE]True enough. But thought is beyond the feeble minds of XPartan and other Dixiuecrat yobs who spew their bile like the loud, ugly, ignorant Americans they are. "Analyze" away but know most Dixiecrats here are brain dead and many of them were involved in war crimes in Syria, EyeRak and Afghanistan.
I saw an ad that Ukrainian mail order brides are 50% off. Maybe they could get more XPartan gran papas to volunteer if they gave 99% off? Just a thought.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670871] But what else can I do? [/QUOTE]You can keep your mouth shut.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2670673]He's contradicting himself all the time. First he admits that Ukraine is a special project for Putin who's trying to restore the empire. Then in the same breath, he blames Biden for lifting objections to Nord 2 as if that emboldened Russia to invade. Makes no sense. That's not an analyses, that's a collection of soundbites.[/QUOTE]The reason I posted the link was as a contrast to those who focus exclusively on one individual, Trump or Biden or whoever, as being the primary or proximate cause of the current situation. Whether you agree with Ferguson isn't important. The point is to engage in a discussion that casts a net wide enough to hopefully capture all (or most) of the possibilities and probabilities.
There are "experts" with opinions (and that's all they are) all over the place. The ones I ignore are those who are overly dogmatic, think they've got it all figured out, and fail to acknowledge how much is uncertain and how much they don't know. IMO, experts, real or self-styled, will be debating and analyzing these issues for years.
[QUOTE=Crusader560;2670580]I just saw that Bolton said. If Trump would have won his re election. He would have pulled the USA out of NATO.
And that is what Putin wanted. So, he could put the USSR back together. WOW.[/QUOTE]First, he and the Trump administration did not part on good terms, as I recall, so there's the disgruntled ex-employee thing. Second, it's always bothered me that he tends to talk in hyperbolic terms, and seems to think that he's the smartest guy in the room and everyone else is an idiot.
For (at least) those two reasons, I'd take his comments with a huge shaker of salt. Also, as I checked today's news I briefly scanned an article about Bolton that characterized the statement about pulling the US out of NATO as something he (Bolton) thought or felt would happen. I didn't see a reference to any definitive statement to that effect. If I missed something, or if more clarifying info has surfaced, I'm certainly open to correction. But it also strikes me that something as momentous as renouncing our NATO treaty obligations is not something that any president could do unilaterally.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670871]The single most important thing we can do is precisely to analyze, etc. Ukraine got into this mess because it didn't think. To get out of the mess, it has to start thinking or get help thinking, especially from those of us comfortably sitting outside Ukraine and thus able to keep our minds from getting carried away by emotions.
So far, my attempts to talk sense to Ukrainians have resulted mostly in furious accusations that I'm a Russian troll, followed by banning me from forums. If everyone talking sense is accused of being a troll (and that's what I'm seeing), then Ukraine is truly in bad shape and will likely be dealt with like a stupid, strong and rebellious bull: beaten senseless, a ring put through the nose, maybe castrated to permanently calm it down.
Wringing one's hands about the suffering of the unfortunates is women's work. Men can either fight or think. I don't pretend to be much of a fighter myself. However, I respect those who can and do fight, and I expect them in turn to respect me for my contribution, which is to think. Prior to the invasion, I was thinking and advocating that Ukraine simply capitulate to all of Putin's demands and I still think that's the best way forwards, unless someone can convince me that a coup is going to happen very soon, and that suffering now will be compensated for by a safer and more prosperous future after Putin is gone. I'm ready to believe a coup MIGHT happen, but I have my doubts about it happening soon or that those who take over after Putin will be significantly nicer than him.[/QUOTE]Everyone has over played there hands on this one and media is making everything even worse. Ukraine decided to take on a bully and is getting absolutely destroyed as result. Any deal is good deal at this point, nobody is coming to help them and if thought that was going to happen, maybe one of the biggest miscalculation of all time.
I do feel sorry for the people that could not leave, but I have very sympathy for Ukraine government, they are completely delusional, but this should not be surprise.
[QUOTE=Travv;2670787]Kyiv UkraineAs shells have begun exploding in the heart of Kyiv, museums have rushed to protect their most prized, valuable pieces: the original artwork of once-in-a-generation talent Hunter Biden.
[/QUOTE]Funny post. From what I can determine is that there were vast oil and gas reserves in Eastern Ukraine, the 2nd largest in Europe. The only problem is that the separatists and Russia were in that area.
I believe that Hunter Biden was on the board to deal with these issues and to get NATO in Ukraine to basically kick out the Russians and get to this oil and gas.
I really believe that this conflict on interest, having Biden Son paid for influence, made Biden not act independently and what was best for USA and the World. Instead, Biden acted on the money he was getting through his son. He then did what he was paid to do, say NO to Russia and get NATO into the country.
Putin would not have this and this is the cause of the problems.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670871]The single most important thing we can do is precisely to analyze, etc. Ukraine got into this mess because it didn't think. To get out of the mess, it has to start thinking or get help thinking, especially from those of us comfortably sitting outside Ukraine and thus able to keep our minds from getting carried away by emotions.[/QUOTE]First, I think most Ukrainians, in or out of the country, would say that the single most important thing is for those in Ukraine not to die. Survival being one of those fundamental Maslow's Hierarchy kinds of things, not much else is going to capture their attention.
[QUOTE]So far, my attempts to talk sense to Ukrainians have resulted mostly in furious accusations that I'm a Russian troll, followed by banning me from forums.[/QUOTE]Wow, I'm shocked (sarc)! Did you really expect any other reaction? There's such a thing as timing, and the time to instruct a mother on how her child should have safely crossed the street is not when the kid is in the ICU after being hit by a car.
Any Ukrainians you personally know will likely take the view that you're not there, and can't know what they're going through, and should therefore STFU. And, since the vast majority of forums (that I've seen) are pro-Ukraine, it's not surprising to see the same reaction.
[QUOTE]Wringing one's hands about the suffering of the unfortunates is women's work. Men can either fight or think. I don't pretend to be much of a fighter myself. However, I respect those who can and do fight, and I expect them in turn to respect me for my contribution, which is to think.[/QUOTE]From what I've seen, BOTH Ukrainian men and women are fighting AND mourning, as those two activities are not mutually exclusive. As far as respect is concerned, it has to be earned. Right now they're busy trying to save their country, so it's not surprising if they don't have time or patience for comments from the peanut gallery. And, as far as your contribution is concerned, that leads to my next point.
[QUOTE]Prior to the invasion, I was thinking and advocating that Ukraine simply capitulate to all of Putin's demands and I still think that's the best way forwards,[/QUOTE]One big problem with your comment is that it's nothing Ukrainians haven't heard, and rejected, from a host of different sources. Are you really surprised at not getting a positive reaction? I'm certainly not. Another problem is assuming Putin's list of demands is static, rather than dynamic. Ukrainians would prefer not to find out.
[QUOTE]I'm just doing here in this thread what comes naturally to me. Much easier to speak my mind and be condemned for it than be silent.[/QUOTE]And I think that's perfectly fine, which is why I'm doing the same thing. But right now, in all the Ukrainian and pro-Ukrainian forums, I'm doing nothing but expressing support. They're understandably in a siege mentality, and perceive anyone who isn't for them as being against them. Whether they're right or wrong is immaterial, that's simply their current (and understandable) mindset.
[QUOTE=ColoradoHobby;2670881]Hard disagree. Keep in mind that, Russian speaking enclaves aside, the only thing Ukrainians agree on is that they don't want to be under the control of Moscow again, whatever that costs them.
Freedom and repression are relative terms, yes, but to suggest that Russians are worse off than, say, Belarusians, because the Belarusians are once removed from Putin's control because Lukashenko is some sort of moderating force is both absurd and patently uninformed.[/QUOTE]My regular, who is the Ukrainian I know best, argued with me when I said last year that Ukraine was better than Belarus because it is a democracy. She and her family are from a small town south of Kyiv and they have typical peasant mentality: there will always be crooks in charge; democracy is a farce; best thing you can do in life is adapt to the system; what matters is the final result, not the process. According to her, people like her and her family would be better off economically in Belarus and that's all she cares about.
She also said she didn't care if Donbas went back to Russia: "What's it to me? My family doesn't live there. " If fact, I don't think she or anyone in her family would much care if the whole country went back to Russia. She grew up speaking Ukrainian, then learned Russian after she moved to Kyiv because people in Kyiv laughed at Ukrainian speech then (before 2014). No emotional ties to language, or to national identity, or to political system, or to native village. Only thing she cares strongly about is economic well-being of herself and her family (parents, grandparents, sisters, cousins, etc).
Most of the girls I saw before meeting this regular were from similar poor backgrounds, and similarly apathetic about politics, national identity, language. All they cared about was a better life: more money, easier working conditions.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670988]Most of the girls I saw before meeting this regular were from similar poor backgrounds, and similarly apathetic about politics, national identity, language. All they cared about was a better life: more money, easier working conditions.[/QUOTE]Kozerog, as you know by now, I have utmost respect for your analytical ability.
I am far from the thought that you consider those girls you met, representative of the true spirit of the whole society. Especially the spirit of those fighting today.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2670878]You seemed to be describing the Putin end game that he has achieved or will achieve. The problem is at what cost for Russia. As long as Putin rules Russia, I don't see the West reestablishing normal ties with Russia. Do the Russian people want to go back to isolation and a stagnant economic outlook?[/QUOTE]From what I'm seeing this guy is simply parroting Russia's official line, and I really don't understand if he's just a fool or if there are more sinister motives. The truth is that Putin's goal is not to ensure Ukraine's NATO neutrality. Maybe, one day, many many moons ago it was about NATO neutrality, but right now his goal is to destroy Ukraine as an independent state and subjugate its people. Simply put, Ukrainians are fighting for their survival, and there're only three choices: Fight, run, or die. Putin made it easy for them.
As to your last questions, there is a very effective informational blockade in Russia. The independent media have been pushed off line and off air. The official media don't show any horrors that the army is inflicting on Ukrainian population. All major VPN providers are blocked. There is a new law that provides for up to 15 years in prison for just calling Putin's so called "special operation" a war. And, quite frankly, a lot of Russians have been zombified in the last 10 years by the relentless propaganda machine.
[QUOTE=NaughtyGuru;2670866]Do you have any evidence he had any arsenal?[/QUOTE]Please read my previous post if you're interested.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2670935]The reason I posted the link was as a contrast to those who focus exclusively on one individual, Trump or Biden or whoever, as being the primary or proximate cause of the current situation. Whether you agree with Ferguson isn't important. The point is to engage in a discussion that casts a net wide enough to hopefully capture all (or most) of the possibilities and probabilities.
There are "experts" with opinions (and that's all they are) all over the place. The ones I ignore are those who are overly dogmatic, think they've got it all figured out, and fail to acknowledge how much is uncertain and how much they don't know. IMO, experts, real or self-styled, will be debating and analyzing these issues for years.[/QUOTE]I agree that neither Biden nor Trump are the primary sources of this. The primary and the only source of this situation is Putin.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2670947]Everyone has over played there hands on this one and media is making everything even worse. Ukraine decided to take on a bully and is getting absolutely destroyed as result. Any deal is good deal at this point, nobody is coming to help them and if thought that was going to happen, maybe one of the biggest miscalculation of all time.
I do feel sorry for the people that could not leave, but I have very sympathy for Ukraine government, they are completely delusional, but this should not be surprise.[/QUOTE]I would love to know when exactly did "Ukraine decide to take on a bully".
When they decided to join the EU?
When they kicked out their monstrously corrupt president?
When they "dared" to express their displeasure with Russia annexing two of their regions?
Do you have any other events in mind?
What do you believe the Ukraine government should've done and when?
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2671052]I would love to know when exactly did "Ukraine decide to take on a bully".[/QUOTE]2013-2014. EU will eventually be same thing as NATO. If corruption was the issue, why elect Yanukovych in the first place? Why wait until 2013 and the rejection of the EU agreement to revolt? Why not revolt in 2011 or 2012? Why change language laws the very first day the new government was in office, instead of first focusing on corruption and changing language laws later? Why re-arm, which forces Russia to invade soon or face a more difficult invasion later?
Lots of countries live next door to dangerous bullies. Mexico lost half its territory to the USA in 1848, then was forced to sell another slice to accommodate the railroad, then had to put up with USA meddling during the Mexican revolution. Mexicans had the sense to recognize that USA would simply seize their entire country if they resisted, so they didn't resist.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670988]My regular, who is the Ukrainian I know best, argued with me when I said last year[/QUOTE]Show levels of understanding, intelligence and reflection far higher than that of XPartan and the other Stupid Shit trolls. It is a pity their debar us getting insights.
Your girl friends are fully right from their points of view and from the view of very many others.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2670896]Interesting video, US Military Veteran on the war in Ukraine. [URL]https://video.foxnews.com/v/6299099588001/[/URL]#sp=show-clips.
The decorated combat veteran says the USA Should stay out of the conflict in Ukraine, adding it will create a far more severe humanitarian.[/QUOTE]There was nothing in my post about the United States entering the conflict. I was discussing the tactics the Ukraines should be using as a smaller force and never mentioned the USA entering the war.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2670896]Interesting video, US Military Veteran on the war in Ukraine. [URL]https://video.foxnews.com/v/6299099588001/[/URL]#sp=show-clips.
The decorated combat veteran says the USA Should stay out of the conflict in Ukraine, adding it will create a far more severe humanitarian.[/QUOTE]Did you watch the whole video? After your "decorated veteran" came on then a Fox News foreign corrospondent came on and called him out for distorting the truth and for appeasing and apoligising for a tyrant.
He says Americans do not want such and such and Europe does not want such and such - and yet the vast majority want to send weapons and even the majority want to impose no-fly zone. I do not suppor us or NATO setting up a no-fly zone. I know how risky that is. I believe they support it becuase they do not understand that a know fly zone requires shooting down planes and that is the same as sending in troops. ( In a world where there were no nuclear bombs I would love to see it - our F22s would dominate them so fast it would be a sight to see)
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/
I know who Colonel MacGregor is and I know there is a reason he was only a colonel and did not get selected to be a general. I am a US Army veteran and I am on several group pages of FB and other places with thousands of other veterans. They all say Macgregor is a nut case who should just go live in Russia. He was babbling nonsense about missiles. Look it up man, all of our missiles in eastern europe are defensive missilles designed to knock missiles out of the sky. They are not offensive weapons. He is a nutjob. He is literally lobbying for a foreign power saying we should not have a missile defense - which by the way is mostly ineffectiv to Russian misssiles and is directed at missiles from North Korea.
You realize Macgregor was in he was in "friends of the soviet union" (if you do not believe me check his wiki page it is in the first paragraph) and most vets I know think he got recruited by the Russian intelligence then, I do not know for sure of course but shit it makes sense. Everything he suggest doing is a benefit to Russia at the expense of the free world. I also know that the vast majority of US Army generals think his suggestions would weaken our nation's defense beyond repair.
It also amazes me with how many people are not up on international relations enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. They have a mutual defense pact. They are the same animal in this regard. So you cannot hope to fight one and not the other. So weakening our position in Europe or NATO is also appeasing China as much as appeasing Russia well but it seems politically convenient for people to ignore.
[URL]https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2021/11/24/russia-china-sign-roadmap-for-closer-military-cooperation/[/URL]
I know is it is a sad day when Americans start taking sides with a Tyrant over people who choose to live free. Ukrainians are literally saying right now "live free or die". To them it is not a bumper sticker. The president of Ukraine was offered a way out of the country and he said "I need ammunition not a ride". That is now how a corrupt leader acts. That is how a lover of theor country and of freedom acts. I am done now. Americans who do not believe in freedom should just all move to russia. I do not understand what they are waiting for.
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2671134]Did you watch the whole video? After your "decorated veteran" came on then a Fox News foreign corrospondent came on and called him out for distorting the truth and for appeasing and apoligising for a tyrant.
enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. [/QUOTE]Definition of "a fox news correspondent": a talking head chickenhawk.
Russia and China are the same? Please don't try to explain that here Colonel General Mojo. Such insight is best kept in the highly classified think tank war room, the one in your head.
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2671134]It also amazes me with how many people are not up on international relations enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. They have a mutual defense pact. They are the same animal in this regard. So you cannot hope to fight one and not the other. So weakening our position in Europe or NATO is also appeasing China as much as appeasing Russia well but it seems politically convenient for people to ignore.
[URL]https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2021/11/24/russia-china-sign-roadmap-for-closer-military-cooperation/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Agree with 99.9% of your points, except I would argue that the relationship between Russia and China may turn out to be less helpful to Russia than many think.
China always puts their own interests first, obviously, and they also have a history of issues, problems, and conflicts, with respect to Russia. For example, China makes mention from time to time of their "Century of Humiliation" at the hand of western powers. It's a powerful motivation that drives them to keep striving for power and dominance in world affairs. Well, Russia was one of the offending countries, in China's view. Do a search for Amur Annexation to see how much land China was forced to cede to Russia, including Vladivostok.
That's not to say they don't have some common interests. China is happy to use Russia to poke the West in the eye. But any help Russia gets is likely to come at an exorbitant price and China would love for Russia to become economically dependent on them. They would love to bleed Russia of oil and other resources at a huge discount and their history with Russia makes it likely they'd see the current situation as an opportunity to balance the ledger to some degree.
It's also worth pointing out that China needs the West, especially Europe, more than they need Russia. Russian GDP is less than that of Italy and can't replace the money China gets from Western markets. So China is walking a tightrope and is unlikely to be the savior to Russia that many think.
Here's a crude analogy: Since they're both predators, Russia in a military way and China in an economic way, their relationship is a bit like pairing Freddy Krueger from Friday the 13th with Michael from Halloween. How long before they turn their knives on each other?
P.S. The link you shared only mentions an agreement for closer coordination and cooperation which, while certainly a matter of concern, doesn't rise to the level of a mutual defense pact. I have a hard time envisioning China ever putting their soldiers in harm's way for Russian interests.
[QUOTE=Fred54;2670700]For donation I saw a lot of different stuff, even people asking to drop money on cards.
I assume there will be also some scam in these demands.
Personally I used this way.
[URL]https://bank.gov.ua/en/news/all/natsionalniy-bank-vidkriv-spetsrahunok-dlya-zboru-koshtiv-na-potrebi-armiyi[/URL]
And I also keep some money to help straight my Ukrainian contacts straight if they need / ask.
I am in regular contact with 5 people, 3 have left to Europe, 2 want to stay in Ukraine with one in Kiev.[/QUOTE]Thanks Fred! Although an insignificant amount it feels good to give a token of appreciation directly to the forces fighting the war for democracy.
For being a sex site, that was one heck of a good report on McGregor and other aspects of our air defense and offensive capacities in Europe and beyond. Perhaps, Flynn and McGregor are BFF?
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2671134]Did you watch the whole video? After your "decorated veteran" came on then a Fox News foreign corrospondent came on and called him out for distorting the truth and for appeasing and apoligising for a tyrant.
He says Americans do not want such and such and Europe does not want such and such - and yet the vast majority want to send weapons and even the majority want to impose no-fly zone. I do not suppor us or NATO setting up a no-fly zone. I know how risky that is. I believe they support it becuase they do not understand that a know fly zone requires shooting down planes and that is the same as sending in troops. ( In a world where there were no nuclear bombs I would love to see it - our F22s would dominate them so fast it would be a sight to see)
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/exclusive-americans-broadly-support-ukraine-no-fly-zone-russia-oil-ban-poll-2022-03-04/
I know who Colonel MacGregor is and I know there is a reason he was only a colonel and did not get selected to be a general. I am a US Army veteran and I am on several group pages of FB and other places with thousands of other veterans. They all say Macgregor is a nut case who should just go live in Russia. He was babbling nonsense about missiles. Look it up man, all of our missiles in eastern europe are defensive missilles designed to knock missiles out of the sky. They are not offensive weapons. He is a nutjob. He is literally lobbying for a foreign power saying we should not have a missile defense - which by the way is mostly ineffectiv to Russian misssiles and is directed at missiles from North Korea.
You realize Macgregor was in he was in "friends of the soviet union" (if you do not believe me check his wiki page it is in the first paragraph) and most vets I know think he got recruited by the Russian intelligence then, I do not know for sure of course but shit it makes sense. Everything he suggest doing is a benefit to Russia at the expense of the free world. I also know that the vast majority of US Army generals think his suggestions would weaken our nation's defense beyond repair.
It also amazes me with how many people are not up on international relations enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. They have a mutual defense pact. They are the same animal in this regard. So you cannot hope to fight one and not the other. So weakening our position in Europe or NATO is also appeasing China as much as appeasing Russia well but it seems politically convenient for people to ignore.
[URL]https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2021/11/24/russia-china-sign-roadmap-for-closer-military-cooperation/[/URL]
I know is it is a sad day when Americans start taking sides with a Tyrant over people who choose to live free. Ukrainians are literally saying right now "live free or die". To them it is not a bumper sticker. The president of Ukraine was offered a way out of the country and he said "I need ammunition not a ride". That is now how a corrupt leader acts. That is how a lover of theor country and of freedom acts. I am done now. Americans who do not believe in freedom should just all move to russia. I do not understand what they are waiting for.[/QUOTE]
The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.
The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?
'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. [URL]https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-czech-republic-among-the-20-happiest-countries-in-the-world/[/URL].
[URL]https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/czech-republic-ranked-in-worlds-top-10-best-countries-for-expats/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2671153]Definition of "a fox news correspondent": a talking head chickenhawk.
Russia and China are the same? Please don't try to explain that here Colonel General Mojo. Such insight is best kept in the highly classified think tank war room, the one in your head.[/QUOTE]Gee comrade, let me see here: Is there public information about he degree of which Russia has been arming China and the degree of there security cooperation? Lets see here.
https://warsawinstitute.review/issue-2020/russia-china-a-limited-liability-military-alliance/
[URL]https://thediplomat.com/2016/12/behind-china-and-russias-special-relationship/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3067.html[/URL]
[URL]https://tass.com/politics/1379867?utm_source=google.com&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=google.com&utm_referrer=google.com[/URL]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Sino-Russian_Treaty_of_Friendship[/URL]
[URL]https://warontherocks.com/2020/08/the-emperors-league-understanding-sino-russian-defense-cooperation/[/URL]
[URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-europe-russia-china-beijing-c73b5249d313d661ce1836911b1dbc45[/URL]
[URL]https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/3139603/how-china-grew-buyer-major-arms-trade-player[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2671155]Agree with 99.9% of your points, except I would argue that the relationship between Russia and China may turn out to be less helpful to Russia than many think.
China always puts their own interests first, obviously, and they also have a history of issues, problems, and conflicts, with respect to Russia. For example, China makes mention from time to time of their "Century of Humiliation" at the hand of western powers. It's a powerful motivation that drives them to keep striving for power and dominance in world affairs. Well, Russia was one of the offending countries, in China's view. Do a search for Amur Annexation to see how much land China was forced to cede to Russia, including Vladivostok.
P.S. The link you shared only mentions an agreement for closer coordination and cooperation which, while certainly a matter of concern, doesn't rise to the level of a mutual defense pact. I have a hard time envisioning China ever putting their soldiers in harm's way for Russian interests.[/QUOTE]That is interesting about the history of ceded lands by China to the Russian empire. I did not know about that. While one looks at China as very pragmatic maybe they do hold some resentment toward the Russians over that but be that as it may. I admit that most people think that the ideal that Russia and China have a binding defense part -.
Article 9 of the 2001 Sino-Russian Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation states: "When a situation arises in which one of the contracting parties deems that peace is being threatened and undermined or its security interests are involved, or when it is confronted with the threat of aggression, the contracting parties shall immediately hold contacts and consultations in order to eliminate such threats. ".
[URL]https://warsawinstitute.review/issue-2020/russia-china-a-limited-liability-military-alliance/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2671240]The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.
The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?
'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. [URL]https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-czech-republic-among-the-20-happiest-countries-in-the-world/[/URL].
[URL]https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/czech-republic-ranked-in-worlds-top-10-best-countries-for-expats/[/URL][/QUOTE]How incredibly simplistic, shallow, and uninformed. Have you ever been to the Czech Republic? Do you know any Czech people? The Russian aggression launched against them was a dark and painful time in their history. Many, many suffered and were "disappeared". A country's people should be able to pursue happiness without having to experience the pain of the paws of the Russian bear, or constantly be in fear of it. Don't you people see that [B]this[/B] is exactly why so many countries have lined up to join NATO? The don't like Russia. They fear Russia. And Russia has done plenty, and [B]continues[/B] to do plenty, to sustain this sentiment. The most effective way to break a bully is to stand up to him. That doesn't mean there will be no pain. I mean, once the bully sees his power and influence waning, he might resort to dirty tricks. Like trying to bite your ear off (play on Mike Tyson the bully). But then again, anybody who enjoys freedom understands the following. That freedom is never free! It normally is only achieved and preserved through blood.
Gentlemen,
The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women. It is not a Forum for political discussion. Let us keep the discussion relevant.
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2671274]That is interesting about the history of ceded lands by China to the Russian empire. I did not know about that. While one looks at China as very pragmatic maybe they do hold some resentment toward the Russians over that but be that as it may. I admit that most people think that the ideal that Russia and China have a binding defense part -.
Article 9 of the 2001 Sino-Russian Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation states: "When a situation arises in which one of the contracting parties deems that peace is being threatened and undermined or its security interests are involved, or when it is confronted with the threat of aggression, the contracting parties shall immediately hold contacts and consultations in order to eliminate such threats. ".
[URL]https://warsawinstitute.review/issue-2020/russia-china-a-limited-liability-military-alliance/[/URL][/QUOTE]As I understand it, a cardinal rule of diplomacy is that, you want a treaty to truly be binding, then you need lock it down with language that leaves no wiggle room. Otherwise any loophole or ambiguous interpretation is likely to be exploited, if that happens to serve the interest of the other party.
I would invite you to compare your Article 9 of the "Treaty of Good-Neighborliness and Friendly Cooperation" with Article 5 of the NATO treaty.
[URL]https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_110496.htm[/URL]
[URL]https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm[/URL]
There's a big difference between "immediately hold contacts and consultations" and NATO's "The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all" provision.
Now, that doesn't mean China couldn't interpret Article 9 to include armed assistance, IF they wanted to and IF it served their interests. But that treaty only commits them to contacts and consultations, nothing more.
Like you, I've been a China and Russia watcher for many years. I can't recall reading or hearing any expert assert that China and Russia have a binding mutual defense pact. And, given the current state of affairs, I think we'd be hearing a lot about it. If, however, you have a link or reference to an expert who does make that assertion, I'd certainly be glad to check it out.
[QUOTE=LazySummer;2671314]Gentlemen,
The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women. It is not a Forum for political discussion. Let us keep the discussion relevant.[/QUOTE]I respect your objections and you have my apology and if I have any further things to say I will say them in the "Stupid Shit in Kiev". Even though it there is obviously not anybody sane who is currently looking for sex with women in Kiev as of now. The politics definitely should be discussed in the "stupid shit" thread.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2671079]2013-2014. EU will eventually be same thing as NATO. If corruption was the issue, why elect Yanukovych in the first place? Why wait until 2013 and the rejection of the EU agreement to revolt? Why not revolt in 2011 or 2012? Why change language laws the very first day the new government was in office, instead of first focusing on corruption and changing language laws later? Why re-arm, which forces Russia to invade soon or face a more difficult invasion later?
Lots of countries live next door to dangerous bullies. Mexico lost half its territory to the USA in 1848, then was forced to sell another slice to accommodate the railroad, then had to put up with USA meddling during the Mexican revolution. Mexicans had the sense to recognize that USA would simply seize their entire country if they resisted, so they didn't resist.[/QUOTE]Yes, we did a shitty thing to Mexicans, but it was 19th century for Christ's sake. Expansionism wasn't a curse word back then. How far back do you want to go to prove your non-existent point? The Punic Wars?
What else are you driveling about? EU will be the same thing as NATO? What does it even mean? Why elect Yanukovich? I have no idea, but it's their business, not yours or mine. Why wait until the rejection of the EU agreement to revolt? Because that's when it was rejected. Why rearm? Gee, I don't know, maybe because Russia always threatened to invade? Who the hell are you to tell a sovereign nation what to do?
The only sensible thing here is that they shouldn't have touched the language. In a country with 20% of ethnic Russians it was foolish and insensitive. The rest is pure garbage.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2671240]The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.
The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?
'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. [URL]https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-czech-republic-among-the-20-happiest-countries-in-the-world/[/URL].
[URL]https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/czech-republic-ranked-in-worlds-top-10-best-countries-for-expats/[/URL][/QUOTE]Apples and cucumbers.
[QUOTE=LazySummer;2671314]Gentlemen,
The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women. It is not a Forum for political discussion. Let us keep the discussion relevant.[/QUOTE]Understood, but it would be difficult to keep it relevant considering that the hobby in Kiev is dead for the time being.
[QUOTE=LazySummer;2671314]Gentlemen,
The purpose of this Forum is to facilitate the exchange of information between men who are looking for sex with women. It is not a Forum for political discussion. Let us keep the discussion relevant.[/QUOTE]LOL your objection is accurate but silly. If you're looking for an "exchange of info between men who are looking for sex with women" you should not even be reading the Kyiv forum at this time. It's a war zone so the discussion is about the war.
[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2671403]LOL your objection is accurate but silly. If you're looking for an "exchange of info between men who are looking for sex with women" you should not even be reading the Kyiv forum at this time. It's a war zone so the discussion is about the war.[/QUOTE]Lmao, but sadly correct he may want to check out the Poland discussion, the cost of war is going to turn housewives and girlfriends completely out.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2671355]Yes, we did a shitty thing to Mexicans, but it was 19th century for Christ's sake. Expansionism wasn't a curse word back then. How far back do you want to go to prove your non-existent point? The Punic Wars?[/QUOTE]Mearsheimer ([URL]https://www.mearsheimer.com/[/URL]) discusses this silly idea that geopolitics is different now from 200 or 2000 years ago. Technology is different but geopolitics follows sames principles as ever. "The strong do as they wish, the weak suffer what they must" is one such principle. The weak should thus take into account the desires of the strong, especially strong neighbors, if they don't want to be beaten to a pulp.
We study past mistakes to know how to do better going forwards. Note that Ukraine STILL has that amendment in its constitution requiring the government to take steps to enter NATO and EU: [URL]https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/2680-19[/URL]#n2 . Maybe Russia is lying about NATO / EU as its main concern. Easy way to find out for sure is see if capitulating on that point leads somewhere. But no, Ukraine government too busy fighting the war to take steps that might end the war.
It should be obvious to anyone with foresight that NATO / EU will eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe. Türkiye will almost certainly not be included in this USE, but rather will form a new mutual defence organization, led by USA, extending into Muslim countries and perhaps Israel, if Israel can resolve its Palestinian problem. This is why EU membership is as threatening as NATO membership.
And lest anyone think directly fighting Putin is a good idea, read about how he came to power: [URL]https://us.yahoo.com/news/putin-1999-apartment-bombings-ukraine-175001959.html[/URL]. Putin will not hesitate to escalate if he is losing. He will saturation bomb Kyiv. He will use tactical nukes against Ukraine. He will use strategic nukes against a mid-size city in the USA, even if certain USA will retaliate against a mid-sized city in Russia. He cares no more about losing a mid-sized Russian city than losing a few Russian soldiers or tanks. They are equally pieces on the chess board which can sacrificed as needed in order to ensure victory. USA has enjoyed peace and hegemony so long it has forgotten what it's like to face a real enemy. We have become stupid, hence all these keyboard warrior comments in this thread. We need to be a lot more intelligent looking forwards.
[QUOTE=RedMan0505;2671408]Lmao, but sadly correct he may want to check out the Poland discussion, the cost of war is going to turn housewives and girlfriends completely out.[/QUOTE]I checked the Poland forum just now. Maybe I didn't sort right, but only a few comments about refugees. Looking forwards, however, there will be tons of desperation among Ukrainian women, whether you are looking for one-time meets with pro or semi-pro, long-term mistress, trophy wife. And they now have easy full-time access to Europe, if that matters.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2671413]Mearsheimer ([URL]https://www.mearsheimer.com/[/URL]) discusses this silly idea that geopolitics is different now from 200 or 2000 years ago. Technology is different but geopolitics follows sames principles as ever. "The strong do as they wish, the weak suffer what they must" is one such principle. The weak should thus take into account the desires of the strong, especially strong neighbors, if they don't want to be beaten to a pulp.
We study past mistakes to know how to do better going forwards. Note that Ukraine STILL has that amendment in its constitution requiring the government to take steps to enter NATO and EU: [URL]https://zakon.rada.gov.ua/laws/show/2680-19[/URL]#n2 . Maybe Russia is lying about NATO / EU as its main concern. Easy way to find out for sure is see if capitulating on that point leads somewhere. But no, Ukraine government too busy fighting the war to take steps that might end the war.
It should be obvious to anyone with foresight that NATO / EU will eventually be replaced by a United States of Europe. Trkiye will almost certainly not be included in this USE, but rather will form a new mutual defence organization, led by USA, extending into Muslim countries and perhaps Israel, if Israel can resolve its Palestinian problem. This is why EU membership is as threatening as NATO membership.
And lest anyone think directly fighting Putin is a good idea, read about how he came to power: [URL]https://us.yahoo.com/news/putin-1999-apartment-bombings-ukraine-175001959.html[/URL]. Putin will not hesitate to escalate if he is losing. He will saturation bomb Kyiv. He will use tactical nukes against Ukraine. He will use strategic nukes against a mid-size city in the USA, even if certain USA will retaliate against a mid-sized city in Russia. He cares no more about losing a mid-sized Russian city than losing a few Russian soldiers or tanks. They are equally pieces on the chess board which can sacrificed as needed in order to ensure victory. USA has enjoyed peace and hegemony so long it has forgotten what it's like to face a real enemy. We have become stupid, hence all these keyboard warrior comments in this thread. We need to be a lot more intelligent looking forwards.[/QUOTE]Using big words doesn't make you right. Medieval kings would murder people just because they didn't like them, but we aren't doing that anymore. Catholics would murder Huguenots, rape and torture their women in ferocious religious wars, but we aren't doing that anymore. We, America, used to remove legitimate governments and replace them with our "sons of bitches" but we aren't doing that anymore.
Because we have learned something.
If you really believe in all that Geopolitics and Realpolitics crap you're peddling here, that reveals what you are, not what we are.
As to your Putin musings, well, if he's really AS CRAZY as you believe he is (and, for the record, I don't believe he is), that would be an even better argument to stop him sooner rather than later. Because no matter how much we give him now, he will keep coming for more.
Appeasements never appease.
At HulaHoops.
You alright? What's your latest status?
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2671420]I checked the Poland forum just now. Maybe I didn't sort right, but only a few comments about refugees. Looking forwards, however, there will be tons of desperation among Ukrainian women, whether you are looking for one-time meets with pro or semi-pro, long-term mistress, trophy wife. And they now have easy full-time access to Europe, if that matters.[/QUOTE]Ukrainians can now legally work in Europe. A dream for Ukrainians. A nightmare for us. So far it was social pressure that drove many young women into prostitution. In Western Europe, however, all Ukrainians now have money, help and housing for free. Even if the war ends tomorrow, the new prospects will reduce commercial sex in Kyiv to a minimum. If I follow the women in my Mamba profile, then the desirable women have already swarmed out. They are not based in Poland or Hungary. Istanbul, Dubai, Paris, Nice, Barcelona are now in the profile.
[QUOTE=LuckyNuts;2671403]LOL your objection is accurate but silly. If you're looking for an "exchange of info between men who are looking for sex with women" you should not even be reading the Kyiv forum at this time. It's a war zone so the discussion is about the war.[/QUOTE]Yeah, it's just like when guys would get mad about people talking about COVID. It's a once in a century happening impacting every aspect of life around the world for crying out loud! That's why it's called a "pandemic".
[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2671462]If I follow the women in my Mamba profile, then the desirable women have already swarmed out. They are not based in Poland or Hungary. Istanbul, Dubai, Paris, Nice, Barcelona are now in the profile.[/QUOTE]This is the exact same thing we've seen with Venezuela. Those beautiful Venezolanas fanned out all over the Americas and Europe.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2671155]It's also worth pointing out that China needs the West, especially Europe, more than they need Russia. Russian GDP is less than that of Italy and can't replace the money China gets from Western markets. So China is walking a tightrope and is unlikely to be the savior to Russia that many think.
Here's a crude analogy: Since they're both predators, Russia in a military way and China in an economic way, their relationship is a bit like pairing Freddy Krueger from Friday the 13th with Michael from Halloween. How long before they turn their knives on each other?[/QUOTE]Many underestimate the dependency of huge trade surplus countries (China in the example) on the nations that buy their goods. The Chinese domestic economy is hurting, but it's covered up by overinvestment in unproductive areas, a growing trade surplus and less than reliable data. The creaking Chinese property market is the tip of an iceberg of underlying problems.
[URL]https://www.usnews.com/news/business/articles/2022-01-13/chinas-trade-surplus-surges-to-record-676-4b-in-2021[/URL]
[QUOTE=Misterxxx;2671462]Ukrainians can now legally work in Europe. A dream for Ukrainians. A nightmare for us...[/QUOTE]Life is change. As one venue disappears, another will open -- maybe better. Barring a nuclear war, it looks like Putin's days are numbered. Imagine Russian girls, used to designer handbags, Iphones, trips to the West...and food, suddenly bereft of all that. This summer, St. Petersburg!
[QUOTE=Travv;2670787]Kyiv UkraineAs shells have begun exploding in the heart of Kyiv, museums have rushed to protect their most prized, valuable pieces: the original artwork of once-in-a-generation talent Hunter Biden.
"The Louvre may have Van Gogh and the Mona Lisa, but here we have Coke On Coke by Hunter Biden," said museum owner Ivan Rostyslav. "I will never forget when he sold us this piece, he said to me, 'Ivan, I don't know how I got here or where my pants are but can you get me to the airport?' Ha! What an artist he is!
According to sources, most of the paintings were initially purchased for the Burisma boardroom with the tacit understanding that then-Vice President Joe Biden would look out for Ukraine. Museum owners waged huge bidding wars to acquire the pieces, knowing that beyond the remarkable art, each painting came with the assurance that the United States would have their back..[/QUOTE]Even if one is a Biden supporter, you have to appreciate some funny satire.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2670673]He's contradicting himself all the time. First he admits that Ukraine is a special project for Putin who's trying to restore the empire. Then in the same breath, he blames Biden for lifting objections to Nord 2 as if that emboldened Russia to invade. Makes no sense. That's not an analyses, that's a collection of soundbites.[/QUOTE]Niall Ferguson is a highly engaging and interesting presenter. He is part of an elite group of well-marketed experts who articulately present the past and package it up with some soothsaying. I would put Ian Bremmer, Thomas Friedman and a few others in the same group. I enjoy listening to them and they routinely show up in a Charlie Rose-type format to promote themselves and their ideas.
Do they know what is going to happen in the future more than anyone else? No, not really.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2671240]The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.
The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?
'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. [URL]https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-czech-republic-among-the-20-happiest-countries-in-the-world/[/URL].
[URL]https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/czech-republic-ranked-in-worlds-top-10-best-countries-for-expats/[/URL][/QUOTE]My first venture into Eastern Europe was to Czechoslovakia and its beautiful capital Prague.
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?644-Prague&p=974864&viewfull=1[/URL]#post974864.
Had the people resisted the Soviet invasion, Probably the city could've been flattened just like Grozny in the 90's.
:;The 19992000 battle of Grozny was the siege and assault of the Chechen capital Grozny by Russian forces, lasting from late 1999 to early 2000. The siege and fighting left the capital devastated. In 2003, the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on Earth. Wikipedia.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2671596]Niall Ferguson is a highly engaging and interesting presenter. He is part of an elite group of well-marketed experts who articulately present the past and package it up with some soothsaying. I would put Ian Bremmer, Thomas Friedman and a few others in the same group. I enjoy listening to them and they routinely show up in a Charlie Rose-type format to promote themselves and their ideas.
Do they know what is going to happen in the future more than anyone else? No, not really.[/QUOTE]I'm not saying he's not engaging, I'm just saying that his logic is flawed. Putin had been planning this war for many years, at least since 2013, and Biden's sanctions on Nord 2 wouldn't have changed anything.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2671355]How far back do you want to go to prove your non-existent point? The Punic Wars?
What else are you driveling about? EU will be the same thing as NATO?[/QUOTE]Funny thing, I thought I saw "Pubic Wars" when I first read your post. My bad. Wishful thinking, I guess (wink).
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2671641]My first venture into Eastern Europe was to Czechoslovakia and its beautiful capital Prague.
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?644-Prague&p=974864&viewfull=1[/URL]#post974864.
Had the people resisted the Soviet invasion, Probably the city could've been flattened just like Grozny in the 90's.
:;The 19992000 battle of Grozny was the siege and assault of the Chechen capital Grozny by Russian forces, lasting from late 1999 to early 2000. The siege and fighting left the capital devastated. In 2003, the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on Earth. Wikipedia.[/QUOTE]Well, it was totally different. Czechoslovakia was the Warsaw Pact member and all alone. The world couldn't help.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2670533]And Obama's inability (or lack of desire) to adequately confront him back in 2014 was a profound and costly mistake.
But Trump's incessant, baffling and, quite frankly, nauseating bootlicking has certainly emboldened him to a huge degree.[/QUOTE]In reality, I think Trump was schmoozing Putin like a salesman would. Clearly, Putin likes to have his ego massaged.
Believe what you want about Russian collusion, the United States still needs to pivot away from Russia to China. The Europeans are perfectly capable of defending Europe with some American assistance.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2671641]My first venture into Eastern Europe was to Czechoslovakia and its beautiful capital Prague.
:;The 19992000 battle of Grozny was the siege and assault of the Chechen capital Grozny by Russian forces, lasting from late 1999 to early 2000. The siege and fighting left the capital devastated. In 2003, the United Nations called Grozny the most destroyed city on Earth. Wikipedia.[/QUOTE]Czechoslovakia ceased to exist on January 1, 1993. Prague is in Central, not Eastern Europe.
The Russian forces did a good job rooting out ISIS from Grozny. Have you seen what the US terrorist forces did to Raqqa, to say nothing of Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Americans have no moral cards. Never had and never will.
Europe's root problem is having the USA here.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2671667]I'm not saying he's not engaging, I'm just saying that his logic is flawed. Putin had been planning this war for many years, at least since 2013, and Biden's sanctions on Nord 2 wouldn't have changed anything.[/QUOTE]I basically agree. Guys like Niall Ferguson's opinions can be classified as infotainment. One might learn something about history, economics and politics, but one shouldn't get too bought in on his opinions.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2671989]Czechoslovakia ceased to exist on January 1, 1993. Prague is in Central, not Eastern Europe.
The Russian forces did a good job rooting out ISIS from Grozny. Have you seen what the US terrorist forces did to Raqqa, to say nothing of Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Americans have no moral cards. Never had and never will.
Europe's root problem is having the USA here.[/QUOTE]I'm guessing Europe's "root problem" is about to get worse, since there will probably be several countries (Poland? Baltics?) asking the US to station additional troops (in existing or new bases) on their soil. One likely outcome of Putin's actions will be to make for stronger ties between individual European countries and NATO / US.
Thankfully, Zelensky is finally being reasonable, or maybe it's the extreme nationalists who are finally allowing Zelensky to be reasonable rather than threatening to kill him for any signs of capitulation. Article below shows agreement on 3 of Putin's 5 demands. Remaining demands are no EU membership and de-militarization. If Ukraine can swallow no NATO, they can swallow no EU. As for de-militarization, probably no offensive weapons will be enough to satisfy Russia. Unlimited anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, but no long-range surface to surface missiles, limited aircraft, certainly no nukes. Putin must be given a victory soon, otherwise Kyiv and orher cities get saturation bombed. Hopefully, CIA is communicating this clearly to the Stepan Bandera crowd and hopefully that crowd is satisfied with how many Russian tanks and troops they have destroyed so far. , so that this war can finally end.
[URL]https://us.yahoo.com/news/ukraines-zelensky-says-cooled-joining-181721289.html[/URL]
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2671965]In reality, I think Trump was schmoozing Putin like a salesman would. Clearly, Putin likes to have his ego massaged.
Believe what you want about Russian collusion, the United States still needs to pivot away from Russia to China. The Europeans are perfectly capable of defending Europe with some American assistance.[/QUOTE]Sorry, but I strongly disagree. Europe is not capable of defending itself (nothing new there), and Putin's mad-tsar disease is threatening the world right now. While Xi might become way more dangerous in the future, is it wise to ignore a present danger fighting a possible threat down the road instead?
Tell you what, though. I wouldn't mind if we tried to tackle both. Especially that Xi seems to be going out of his way to please his buddy Pu. Let's hit him with something like, I don't know, warning sanctions if he tries too hard.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2671989]Czechoslovakia ceased to exist on January 1, 1993. Prague is in Central, not Eastern Europe.
The Russian forces did a good job rooting out ISIS from Grozny. Have you seen what the US terrorist forces did to Raqqa, to say nothing of Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Americans have no moral cards. Never had and never will.
Europe's root problem is having the USA here.[/QUOTE]There wasn't any ISIS in Grozny, you cretin. And yeah, they did a heck of a job, bombing the living hell out of everyone in Grozny including ethnic RUSSIANS who had a misfortune of living in Chechnya for decades. When did he give a fuck who to kill? You do know he had blown up two apartment buildings in Moscow to ramp up public support for that war?
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2672152]Thankfully, Zelensky is finally being reasonable, or maybe it's the extreme nationalists who are finally allowing Zelensky to be reasonable rather than threatening to kill him for any signs of capitulation. Article below shows agreement on 3 of Putin's 5 demands. Remaining demands are no EU membership and de-militarization. If Ukraine can swallow no NATO, they can swallow no EU. As for de-militarization, probably no offensive weapons will be enough to satisfy Russia. Unlimited anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles, but no long-range surface to surface missiles, limited aircraft, certainly no nukes. Putin must be given a victory soon, otherwise Kyiv and orher cities get saturation bombed. Hopefully, CIA is communicating this clearly to the Stepan Bandera crowd and hopefully that crowd is satisfied with how many Russian tanks and troops they have destroyed so far. , so that this war can finally end.
[URL]https://us.yahoo.com/news/ukraines-zelensky-says-cooled-joining-181721289.html[/URL][/QUOTE]LOL. The only "agreement" this article shows is an agreement to start a conversation, LOL.
The USA is a serial invader of other countries. Right now, it is occupying and looting Syria of its oil. It destroyed Libya, got its side kicks to destroy Libya, is complicit in the Saudi genocide of Yemen, destroyed the Nordstream 2 gas project.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2672180]Sorry, but I strongly disagree. Europe is not capable of defending itself (nothing new there), and Putin's mad-tsar disease is threatening the world right now. While Xi might become way more dangerous in the future, is it wise to ignore a present danger fighting a possible threat down the road instead?
Tell you what, though. I wouldn't mind if we tried to tackle both. Especially that Xi seems to be going out of his way to please his buddy Pu. Let's hit him with something like, I don't know, warning sanctions if he tries too hard.
There wasn't any ISIS in Grozny, you cretin. And yeah, they did a heck of a job, bombing the living hell out of everyone in Grozny including ethnic RUSSIANS who had a misfortune of living in Chechnya for decades. When did he give a fuck who to kill? You do know he had blown up two apartment buildings in Moscow to ramp up public support for that war?
LOL. The only "agreement" this article shows is an agreement to start a conversation, LOL.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2671134]It also amazes me with how many people are not up on international relations enough to realize that Russia and China are the same. They have a mutual defense pact. They are the same animal in this regard. So you cannot hope to fight one and not the other. So weakening our position in Europe or NATO is also appeasing China as much as appeasing Russia well but it seems politically convenient for people to ignore.
[URL]https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2021/11/24/russia-china-sign-roadmap-for-closer-military-cooperation/[/URL].[/QUOTE]Russia has taken so many land from China in the last 200 years. At least 90% Chinese hate Russians. But Chinese has not so many atom bombs and advanced weapons like Russia and they share the probably longest country board in the world. China does not want to offend Putin. You didn't mean that a bear and a dragon can be good friends, did you? The Chinese also doesn't like Americans, but it is more like wrestling, after wrestling they are still friends, because in the WW 2 Americans have helped China a lot and Americans have never taken even one square meter land from China. Trade, human right, or technology conflict are there, but they are changing. If you have lost your land, like Alaska, Texas, Falkland (Argentina) or Crimea, it would be almost impossible or even impossible to get it back.
If China supported Ukraine, later Putin could make big troubles on the boarder after the war in Ukraine, (because otherwise he would lost his face), let alone China needs the oil and gas from Russia (each year about 20 billion dollars). EU trades about 50 billion Euros oil and gas from Russia per year and it is not included in the current sanction.
During the WW 2, nobody made such a sanction to Hitler. Now look at the EU and USA, they want 'Putler' to stop the ear but they are continuously doing business with his land. What a shame! With the 50 billion Euros Putin can fight 365 days per year! Are there still bravery spirit in Americans? I cannot see any of them like in WW 2, Irak, Afhan, Korea or Vietnam! Remember you (esp. USA and England) have promised Ukraine that you will defend Ukraine if any country invade Ukraine as Ukraine damaged his atom bombs. China has also a similar pact with Ukraine, that's why even now China does not admit, that it is an invasion.
Putin said there is Nazis in Ukraine and he has to clean them out for his country's benefit, but there is always Nazis in Germany, will later Putin also take care Germany? For example, attacking Berlin? If Americans now send troops, I don't think China, India, Brazil etc. Will do any business with Russia, because it will be a final contest, it's a matter dying for justice or dying as a coward!
The above is only my two cents, it doesn't represent any groups or governments' opinion.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2671989]The Russian forces did a good job rooting out ISIS from Grozny. Have you seen what the US terrorist forces did to Raqqa, to say nothing of Tokyo, Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Americans have no moral cards. Never had and never will.
Europe's root problem is having the USA here.[/QUOTE]The GDR ceased to exist after 'reunification' while the Bundesrepublik continued. This was no end to the Cold War; it was the post-war Allied Occupied Zone expanding. The root problem is America has refused to release its subjugated German vassal, and won't do so until they're rooted out.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2672180]Sorry, but I strongly disagree..[/QUOTE]You are American and so are a moron. Stick to the American politics thread, what a genius Biden is etc.
Europe's root problem is Americans are here.
You have your Audie Murphy / John Wayne black hat / white hat world view. Ukraine, of which you, being American, know sweet fuck all, shows your simplistic analysis (sic) is good for nothing, only to feed obese Americans. Following the Soviet Union's defeat of Nazi Germany, the CIA recruited Gestapo and SS to give them information on the USSR. This was most effective in Ukraine where Nazi contingents fought on into the mid 1950's. CIA controlled Ukrainian expats in Canada especially wrote the counter narrative that the SS were the good guys. That is why the Nazi have been more successful in Ukraine than anywhere else.
Americans do not belong in Europe. They should fuck off once and for all.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYWy0lbEerg&ab_channel=MaineMilitaryMuseum%26LearningCenter[/URL]
Hopefully the Bandera SS and their CIA handlers will be marched through Moscow like this on their way to new jobs in Siberia.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC6oJURg6Pk&ab_channel=MaannaJoro[/URL]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2672250]The USA is a serial invader of other countries. Right now, it is occupying and looting Syria of its oil. It destroyed Libya, got its side kicks to destroy Libya, is complicit in the Saudi genocide of Yemen, destroyed the Nordstream 2 gas project. Here is how American "tourists" should be treated, scum like McCain especially.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JYWy0lbEerg&ab_channel=MaineMilitaryMuseum%26LearningCenter[/URL][/QUOTE]Only the USA threatens the world? Really? Is the irony of posting this statement in the Kiev forum lost on you?
Why don't you find the nearest Ukrainian and make that statement directly to their face? Then come back and let us know how that went.
And while you're at it, go ahead and repeat that exercise with someone from Taiwan or Hong Kong.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2672180]Sorry, but I strongly disagree. Europe is not capable of defending itself (nothing new there), and Putin's mad-tsar disease is threatening the world right now. While Xi might become way more dangerous in the future, is it wise to ignore a present danger fighting a possible threat down the road instead?[/QUOTE]Of course you're right. Europe cannot currently defend itself.
However, global strategic pivots don't occur overnight. If Germany was meeting its 2% NATO commitment to "pure" defense expenditures, it would likely be able to go toe-to-toe with Russia just on their own.
Having said that, Merkel's Russia policies are now being reevaluated. History has a a way of bringing clarity to the politics of the past.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2670871]The single most important thing we can do is precisely to analyze, etc. Ukraine got into this mess because it didn't think. To get out of the mess, it has to start thinking or get help thinking, especially from those of us comfortably sitting outside Ukraine and thus able to keep our minds from getting carried away by emotions.
So far, my attempts to talk sense to Ukrainians have resulted mostly in furious accusations that I'm a Russian troll, followed by banning me from forums. If everyone talking sense is accused of being a troll (and that's what I'm seeing), then Ukraine is truly in bad shape and will likely be dealt with like a stupid, strong and rebellious bull: beaten senseless, a ring put through the nose, maybe castrated to permanently calm it down........[/QUOTE]Your Russian bias comes through clearly in your posts. Perhaps you have Russian ethnicity or perhaps you are just a Russophile. I think you said you were studying Russian. From your posts, I don't think you are learning Russian to apply for a job with the CIA or a European intelligence agency.
Surely, the Ukrainians will lose the battle for her country. But Putin will likely lose the war. This invasion is taking on global strategic implications. Putin did more for Ukrainian sovereign identity in two weeks than the last eight years since Putin's puppet was thrown out of the country. Putin has also united the Europeans. Even Switzerland is lending a small hand.
These new sanctions will seriously harm ordinary Russians. (You seem so genuinely concerned about ordinary Ukrainians. How about ordinary Russians?) The cost to occupy, control and / or rebuild the Ukraine will hurt a weakened economy. The Russian military expenditures likely won't be cutback in the short-run though. The likely outcomes in reaction will be more European defense spending and more global exploration / distribution of gas and oil. Neither of which is good for Russia in the long-run.
You have alluded to Putin rattling the nuclear saber to have the world take him and his demands seriously. Can this move be any stupider? You can't play this card and expect to win anything. Sure, it keeps Polish MiGs out of Ukrainian hands. It might even keep a light touch by the West, as Russia pounds the Ukrainians into submission. However, you don't think Europe and the USA Are adjusting their strategic defense policies? Even the Chinese might be thinking WTF is this guy doing.
Win the battle, but lose the war.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2672297]The GDR ceased to exist after 'reunification' while the Bundesrepublik continued. This was no end to the Cold War; it was the post-war Allied Occupied Zone expanding. The root problem is America has refused to release its subjugated German vassal, and won't do so until they're rooted out.[/QUOTE]Seems to me that recent history is replete with examples of the German "vassal" having its own mind, and taking positions that didn't please the US.
As far as rooting them out, would you prefer the Germans did that themselves or would you like to have some non-German power handle that job? And which country would you prefer, Russia, or China, or someone else?
What's really funny is that Putin's actions have strengthened the (US-led) NATO alliance in ways that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Which means, as I've mentioned in another post, that the presence of the US in Europe is likely to increase. I wonder how many more "vassal" states will be created as a result? Any guesses?
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2672420]Win the battle, but lose the war.[/QUOTE]Once again, winning the peace will be even harder than winning the war, as Mr. Putin is most assuredly going to find out. In the end, he's going to lose both, and go down as just another beady-eyed Russian tyrant. And so far, even winning the battles has not been as easy as he thought it would be. Not good for Russia. Not good for the world.
Anyone know about this guy? Anyone talk to him on PM?
Is he still with us?
[QUOTE=HessenStud;2672261]
Putin said there is Nazis in Ukraine and he has to clean them out for his country's benefit, but there is always Nazis in Germany, will later Putin also take care Germany? For example, attacking Berlin? If Americans now send troops, I don't think China, India, Brazil etc. Will do any business with Russia, because it will be a final contest, it's a matter dying for justice or dying as a coward!
The above is only my two cents, it doesn't represent any groups or governments' opinion.[/QUOTE]I will concede that I do not know how the Chinese feel about Russia but I have pointed out that there has been considerable exchanges of what would be considered highly top secret technology of weapons and not the kind you share with anyone but a close friend and theres the recent statement by China's president saying that Russia and China's friendship has "no limits" - one could hope that this is mostly rhetoric but if one also looks at all the other cooperation they have had the the conclusion is that people say they do not have "formal alliance" - but you can see that it looks like duck, it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck. So....
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-russia-xi-putin-ukraine-war-11646279098[/URL]
[URL]https://warsawinstitute.review/issue-2020/russia-china-a-limited-liability-military-alliance/[/URL]
https://thediplomat.com/2016/12/behind-china-and-russias-special-relationship/
[URL]https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3067.html[/URL]
[URL]https://tass.com/politics/1379867?ut...rer=google.com[/URL]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_S..._of_Friendship[/URL]
https://warontherocks.com/2020/08/the-emperors-league-understanding-sino-russian-defense-cooperation/
[URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...1836911b1dbc45[/URL]
[URL]https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...s-trade-player[/URL]
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2672520]I will concede that I do not know how the chinese feel about Russia but I have pointed out that there has been considerable exchanges of what would be considered highly top secret technogy of weapans and recently statement by China's president saying that Russia and China's friendship has "no limits" - one could hope that this is mostly rhetoric but if also look at all the other cooperation they have had and while people say they do not have "formal alliance" - but you see it looks like duck, it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck. So.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-russia-xi-putin-ukraine-war-11646279098[/URL]
[URL]https://warsawinstitute.review/issue-2020/russia-china-a-limited-liability-military-alliance/[/URL]
[URL]https://thediplomat.com/2016/12/behi...-relationship/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3067.html[/URL]
[URL]https://tass.com/politics/1379867?ut...rer=google.com[/URL]
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_S..._of_Friendship[/URL]
[URL]https://warontherocks.com/2020/08/th...e-cooperation/[/URL]
[URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-uk...1836911b1dbc45[/URL]
[URL]https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mili...s-trade-player[/URL][/QUOTE]China sends humanitarian aid to Ukraine:
[URL]https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220309-china-to-provide-ukraine-about-790-000-in-aid-official[/URL]
China urges implementation of safe humanitarian corridors:
[URL]https://news.cgtn.com/news/2022-03-08/China-urges-safe-implementation-of-humanitarian-corridor-in-Ukraine--18eaFRWIOuk/index.html[/URL]
"As a peace-loving country, China laments the fact that the situation in Ukraine has come to this stage, Zhang said. China supports all efforts to ease the escalation and strongly opposes any action that is not conducive to promoting a political settlement but rather fuels the fire and escalates the situation, he said" "Zhang reiterated that China's position of safeguarding the sovereignty and territorial integrity of all states and abiding by the purposes and principles of the UN Charter has been consistent".
As is ever the case, China will pursue it's own interests. They have no problem helping Russia avoid sanctions, especially if that leaves Russia indebted to them. But, despite ongoing speculation, has anyone seen evidence of any concrete military assistance from China to Russia?
I've been regularly checking news sources and social media accounts that are posting in-depth reports about the war in Ukraine. Whether pro-Russia or pro-Ukraine, any evidence of material military support would be a huge deal and would be widely covered. There have been zero reports of such, not even so much as single Chinese military-grade supply truck.
Those reporting on the war are scrutinizing satellite imagery, photos of trains and rail stations, etc. And there have been absolutely no sightings of Chinese equipment being employed by Russia. Talk is cheap, and everyone is entitled to their opinion, but facts and evidence are what will rule the day.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2672496]Once again, winning the peace will be even harder than winning the war, as Mr. Putin is most assuredly going to find out. In the end, he's going to lose both, and go down as just another beady-eyed Russian tyrant. And so far, even winning the battles has not been as easy as he thought it would be. Not good for Russia. Not good for the world.[/QUOTE]This is what passes for optimism these days, but even this is overly optimistic I'm afraid.
Talk of chemical weapons.
Talk of biological weapons.
Talk of nuclear weapons.
Talk of military aid being an act of war.
Talk of "escalate to de-escalate. ".
Talk of false flag operations.
Talk of ethnic cleansing.
Talk of tactical nuclear weapons under field generals.
So many ways to go wrong. Any one of which can trigger the end.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2672420]Your Russian bias comes through clearly in your posts. Perhaps you have Russian ethnicity or perhaps you are just a Russophile. I think you said you were studying Russian. From your posts, I don't think you are learning Russian to apply for a job with the CIA or a European intelligence agency.
...
You have alluded to Putin rattling the nuclear saber to have the world take him and his demands seriously. Can this move be any stupider? You can't play this card and expect to win anything.[/QUOTE]I understand you are using "you" rhetorically to mean "any person" but the above paragraph suggests you think that, because I see Putin's / Russia's point of view, I endorse this view or that I'm trying to help Russia and so it's me playing the cards. Which suggests you are a typical stupid American who can only see the world in black and white terms, where Americans are always good guys. This stupidity hasn't gotten the USA into much serious trouble so far, because USA has been such an impregnable fortress until recently, but it will get USA into trouble in the future if we (I'm American) don't reform soon.
Note that, for all the talk of the horror of bombing civilians and especially using nukes on civilians, guess which country is the only country to use nukes and to use them on a civilian target? That's right, USA. We did it because the Japanese leaders were negotiating with Stalin to join in military alliance. USA thus set a precedent that nuclear weapons are okay to use in such cases. Similar case as with Ukraine negotiating to join NATO. Anger at me for telling the truth would be better directed at Zelensky and his extremist handlers for refusing to accept Russia's reasonable demands, same as fault for the Hiroshima bombing goes to the Japanese leaders, plus anyone who supported those leaders.
(As an aside, though leaders should be judged on actions, without a lot psycho-analyzing, and this goes for both Putin and Zelensky, it's worrh remembering that the latter is an actor, thus has a natural attraction to drama, publicity, heroic role-playing, etc. If a strong personality, Zekensky can resist that attraction and do what is best for Ukraine. Otherwise, he will do what it takes to keep himself in the public eye, including unnecessarily prolonging the war.)
I studied Russian for use in Ukraine, dumbass. It continues to be the most widely spoken language in Kyiv right up until Oct 2021 when I was last there, and is essentially the only language spoken in Odesa, Dnipro and Kharkiv, among others. Never visited Russia, never plan to.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2672619]I understand you are using "you" rhetorically to mean "any person" but the above paragraph suggests you think that, because I see Putin's / Russia's point of view, I endorse this view or that I'm trying to help Russia and so it's me playing the cards. Which suggests you are a typical stupid American who can only see the world in black and white terms, where Americans are always good guys. This stupidity hasn't gotten the USA into much serious trouble so far, because USA has been such an impregnable fortress until recently, but it will get USA into trouble in the future if we (I'm American) don't reform soon.
Note that, for all the talk of the horror of bombing civilians and especially using nukes on civilians, guess which country is the only country to use nukes and to use them on a civilian target? That's right, USA. We did it because the Japanese leaders were negotiating with Stalin to join in military alliance. USA thus set a precedent that nuclear weapons are okay to use in such cases. Similar case as with Ukraine negotiating to join NATO. Anger at me for telling the truth would be better directed at Zelensky and his extremist handlers for refusing to accept Russia's reasonable demands, same as fault for the Hiroshima bombing goes to the Japanese leaders, plus anyone who supported those leaders..[/QUOTE]Besides descending into name-calling, criticizing stupid Americans and just about everyone accept Putin and the Russian military, you have not addressed the main point I made. How does Putin get from winning the battle for Ukraine to actually winning the war. Do you think the Europeans will just say "Okay you win. You get to keep the Ukraine again as one of your chess pieces. " without an extreme cost to the Russians.
Sure, countries enter and continue battles that don't add anything strategically or tactically to their benefit (I. E. USA And Russia in Afghanistan). However, you have not offered a response how Putin comes out a winner in the long-run. Instead, you have offered a dog's breakfast of propaganda. When challenged, you redirect to the United States as the big, bad menace even when we can see the Europeans are as cohesive continent-wide as they have ever been.
You also seem to dive back far into history. Some of it is relevant today. However, I don't see Putin being too effective at cordoning off and isolating Russians. 2022 is not 1948. The world is a lot smaller. You can try to use the Chinese government as an example, but China has been truly an economic miracle. The Chinese dictators have had more legitimacy because of this economic success. It's no accident that China is also integrated with the global economy. Russia will likely suffer in isolation.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2672442]Seems to me that recent history is replete with examples of the German "vassal" having its own mind, and taking positions that didn't please the US.
[/QUOTE]I am agreeing with you but just want to throw some more into the discussion.
Germany / GDP per capita 45,723. 64 USD.
Russia / GDP per capita 10,126. 72 USD.
Gee wiz Beaver, I think I would prefer to live in the German "vassal" than the cronyism capitalist country that ranks 1st in natural resources and 57th in per capita GDP,
Here is an interesting article about comments from someone who actually knew Putin and also knows the mindset of the Russian leadrship structure. He is the former foreign mintister. He says the reason that the Russian army is doing so poorly is that for years people have been embezzling money from the budget. He also says that Putin does not know any of this and probably does not know how poorly the invasion is going because people are afraid to tell him.
[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-ex-fm-kozyrev-miitary-failing-budget-spent-yachts-2022-3?fbclid=IwAR333S9ytgkJj-gNu5jXmbXFrpvKPS-KWJmKa_tNR5RyMNLZH3aIcC73CuA[/URL]
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2672693]How does Putin get from winning the battle for Ukraine to actually winning the war[/QUOTE]I'm not going to debate with a moron and I don't care much about the future of Putin or Russia. My concern is with the future of Ukraine. In particular, preventing the utter destruction of much of Ukraine. Because that's where things are heading.
Ukrainians are betting on a coup if they can hold out another week or two. An extremely risky strategy. Putin's demands are reasonable (assuming de-militarization only refers to offensive weapons and Ukraine can have unlimited anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles and a neutral party like China, Egypt, Peru, etc brokers and monitors the deal). Everyone who cares about Ukraine should be urging them to accept those demands and bring this war to a speedy conclusion. Putin is not to be messed with, and thinking otherwise is how we got where we are, though he has shown himself to be stupider than most people ever imagined. Stupid, cruel and powerful is actually worse than smart, cruel and powerful, because stupid is less predictable. However, we can still safely predict that Putin can and will destroy Ukraine rather than "lose". Destroyed Ukraine that is not in NATO or EU is victory in his eyes, regardless of what you think.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2672793]I'm not going to debate with a moron and I don't care much about the future of Putin or Russia. My concern is with the future of Ukraine. In particular, preventing the utter destruction of much of Ukraine. Because that's where things are heading.
Ukrainians are betting on a coup if they can hold out another week or two. An extremely risky strategy. Putin's demands are reasonable (assuming de-militarization only refers to offensive weapons and Ukraine can have unlimited anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles and a neutral party like China, Egypt, Peru, etc brokers and monitors the deal). Everyone who cares about Ukraine should be urging them to accept those demands and bring this war to a speedy conclusion. Putin is not to be messed with, and thinking otherwise is how we got where we are, though he has shown himself to be stupider than most people ever imagined. Stupid, cruel and powerful is actually worse than smart, cruel and powerful, because stupid is less predictable. However, we can still safely predict that Putin can and will destroy Ukraine rather than "lose". Destroyed Ukraine that is not in NATO or EU is victory in his eyes, regardless of what you think.[/QUOTE]First, dial down the name calling. Anyone here can have your insulting posts deleted and you can be put on moderation (if you haven't been already). Moderation is not fun. Your posts might not get posted by the moderator until the next day. By then, the conversation might have moved on.
You have been shaping Putin's demands as mostly keeping the Ukraine out of NATO. Is that why he invaded Crimea in 2014? That makes no sense. Invade your neighbor so they don't search for allies. More broadly, Putin doesn't want a functioning democracy that is prospering with EU trade on his border. He wants his former Soviet vassals.
You can call me names and try to dismiss me instead of my arguments. You can say this invasion is all about stopping the Ukraine from joining NATO. In my opinion, this is more about Putin dominating the Ukraine. Perhaps the Belarus model is not such a bad thing. Putin won't crush you in return for total allegiance and loss of sovereignty.
By the way, there will be no victors from this war. This war is particularly bad for everyone, but clearly the Ukrainians.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2672442]What's really funny is that Putin's actions have strengthened the (US-led) NATO alliance in ways that wouldn't have happened otherwise. Which means, as I've mentioned in another post, that the presence of the US in Europe is likely to increase. I wonder how many more "vassal" states will be created as a result? [/QUOTE]Not really funny at all. Really predictable is what it is.
The Empire of Lies bid to incorporate Ukraine as another vassal is on temporary hold. We'll all have to wait and see how it goes. Wars can have uncertain outcomes.
China has involved in two main wars in the last 70 years or after they set up the new Republic of China. One is the the Korea war, back then the president Mao wants to lick the asshole of Stalin and let him trust him, so he lets his troops enter Korea and let more than 400 0000 soldiers died there although he knew clearly back then the USA will not attack China, the real enemy of USA back then is Russia. The second war is the war between China and Vietnam. Back then the President Deng has seen all countries who follow USA were getting richer, he wants to show some good signs to USA. So after USA left Vietnam, he attacked or invaded Vietnam, again, the Chinese President in fact was licking the asshole of another big power in the world. After that China and USA started their honeymoon, and only after that the economy in China is starting to develop, even to now. But more than 60 000 soldiers died during the invasion and the relation between Vietnam and China is completely broken, even now they cannot get along with each other.
Basically Chinese don't like war and, they are happy with their own land and they have some kind of 'middle' spirit in their blood, so you seldom see their troops in other countries, for example Syria, Irak or now in Ukraine. If they have a military goal, it will be to take and control Taiwan, but the current sanction to Russia almost completely destroys their hope of conquering Taiwan with troops or weapons.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2672826]Not really funny at all. Really predictable is what it is.
The Empire of Lies bid to incorporate Ukraine as another vassal is on temporary hold. We'll all have to wait and see how it goes. Wars can have uncertain outcomes.[/QUOTE]I probably should have been more clear about what I meant by the "funny" characterization. And there's irony upon irony when one considers possible and probable knock-on effects for both Russia and China.
About the uncertainty of outcomes, you're absolutely correct. One thing that drives me crazy is the plethora of pundits and "experts" who speak with pseudo-certainty while ignoring or glossing over some of the variables that make this conflict quite a different beast.
I'm not convinced. First and only prior post was 1 year ago saying " Anyone here? What's the scene like?" and nothing more in the General Info for *Burma*. Next post he's already in trouble in Ukraine. No prior participation at all.
As I have said before, I have no reason to lie or falsify reports. What do you expect me to take pictures of? Everything here is locked down and somber. If you don't believe me there's not much I can offer. I post these reports as a distraction to myself from the situation here. Not to mention I didn't come here by myself, other members of my group would be strongly opposed to me taking any pictures AND posting those pictures online. I thank others for their support. I have never asked for a single penny from anyone, I just wrote the reports to provide help to others who may have thought of coming or are even in the country. If you're unconvinced then feel free to ignore any of my posts. I just didn't have any information of worth to post till coming here.
I suggest Voltaire's Candide, the forerunner to HulaHoops. Pray for mongers everywhere (and hookers too).
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2673749]I'm not convinced. First and only prior post was 1 year ago saying " Anyone here? What's the scene like?" and nothing more in the General Info for *Burma*. Next post he's already in trouble in Ukraine. No prior participation at all.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2672804]First, dial down the name calling. .[/QUOTE]Why don't you tone it down? You just repeat US / NATO rubbish, with no personal in sight. People like you destroy this and similar sites.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2672793]I'm not going to debate with a moron a.[/QUOTE]Again, I admire your posts. It is a rarity when one can think through issues. The sooner the USA fucks out of Europe, the better. No point joining in as Americans just go Putin, Puutin, Putin, like the brainwashed cretins that they are.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2673574]I probably should have been more clear about what I meant by the "funny" characterization. And there's irony upon irony when one considers possible and probable knock-on effects for both Russia and China.
About the uncertainty of outcomes, you're absolutely correct. One thing that drives me crazy is the plethora of pundits and "experts" who speak with pseudo-certainty while ignoring or glossing over some of the variables that make this conflict quite a different beast.[/QUOTE]Besides the professional pundits and the armchair experts on social media (myself included) opining about who is to blame and who could have prevented this war, I don't think this conflict is good for anyone.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2673822]Why don't you tone it down? You just repeat US / NATO rubbish, with no personal in sight. People like you destroy this and similar sites.
Again, I admire your posts. It is a rarity when one can think through issues. The sooner the USA fucks out of Europe, the better. No point joining in as Americans just go Putin, Puutin, Putin, like the brainwashed cretins that they are.[/QUOTE]Unfortunately for Putin, his invasion of Ukraine seems to have caused a diametrically opposed effect to what he likely envisioned. No matter what attitudes existed toward Ukraine and Russia before the invasion, Putin has singlehandedly caused the vast majority of the world to view him as the villain and Ukraine as the victim. Whatever you think or want the "reality" to be, perception and public opinion has overwhelmed it. And, when it comes to the information (or propaganda) battle space, Ukraine has dominated and Russia has failed miserably.
One clear result is that pro-NATO sentiment in Europe has grown. Some examples of that effect include Germany and Denmark ramping up defense budgets to the 2% NATO target and countries like Sweden and Finland seriously considering joining the alliance. And it's highly likely that more US-NATO troops will be stationed in more countries than ever before.
[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2022/03/putin-nato-finland-sweden-support-ukraine/626965/[/URL]
I have no idea in what country you live but, if its in Europe, I suspect you're going to be subjected to more NATO rubbish for years to come. On the other side of that coin, Putin has turned Russia into a pariah state that now exists in a bubble floating somewhere between North Korea and Iran.
Country-level sanctions are just part of it. What's truly remarkable is the vast number of private companies that have completely turned their back on Russia. The damage to the Russian economy is likely to last for years and many of those companies may never return. And, if Putin is found guilty of war crimes, which seems likely to happen, then Russia's pariah status will continue for as long as he remains in power.
So that's my personal insight, which I would assert is supported by the available evidence. And I would also suggest that you keep a sharp eye out for brainwashed cretins, as they're likely to be coming out of the (European) woodwork more than ever before.
P.S. If you're looking for someone to blame, look no further than Putin, Putin, Putin.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2673822]Why don't you tone it down? You just repeat US / NATO rubbish, with no personal in sight. People like you destroy this and similar sites.[/QUOTE]You can read the policies about directing insults and derogatory comments towards forum members or you can quickly click on "Report Post" to see the list of infractions. If you don't like the policies, I suggest you take them up with the forum administrator. No surprise that this etiquette is fairly common for on-line forums. If people are bothered by differing opinions and / or have hyper-aggressive natures, public forums are probably not a good place for them.
Asking someone to tone it down here is actually a courtesy to avoid them receiving infractions, moderation and possibly being suspended.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2673822]Americans just go Putin, Puutin, Putin, like the brainwashed cretins that they are.[/QUOTE]
If having an education and the ability to access all the information there is and I am able to process that information. If this is being "brainwashed" I can think of some others who need their brains washed. Maybe it would rid them of the brain filth that seems to be causing a decay in the reasoning process.
I do not repeat what "NATO" or anyone else says. You assume too much. You assume wrong. I think for myself. I have an education and I have traveled the world. I not only have advanced formal univerisity education, I also have other educative experiences. I spent some years in the military. I spent two years in a penal institution. These experiences I consider more valuable than formal education. Try to pin me down as a nationalist of any country would be wrong. I have residency in three countries. I consider myself a citizen of the world. For the record I was very much against the USA invasion of Iraq. I am not a peace lover, I am an ex soldier. but one should only fight when there is a clear and present danger.
There are innocent women and children being killed by Putin sent missiles but please enlighten us wise one on why he does not deserve to be demonized. He was not prevoked, he was not threatened. He just decided to. Putin attacking Ukraine and saying it is a threat is like watching a full gown man kick a baby and say he was defending himself. I would love to hear your side of the story. Tell us why you choose to serve the dark lord over allowing people to breathe freely.
The fact is Russia has no freedom of speech and they just make up shit as they go along. Thats why the Ukrianians have labled the Russian soldiers as Orcs. Mutant slaves who are only capable of doing their master's bidding. Not capable of human thought.
This is a direct quote from the lady who works for a Russian "news" channel who just got detained for speaking her mind. I would think that she has some insight. She knew she would go to prison but was brave enought to say it anyway
Marina Ovsyannikova: "Unfortunately, I have been working at Channel One during recent years, working on Kremlin propaganda, Ovsyannikova said. And now I am very ashamed. I am ashamed that Ive allowed the lies to be said on the TV screens. I am ashamed that I let the Russian people be zombified."
That Putin is a horrible leader goes way beyond this war. The numbers demonstrate plainly and truthfully why Putin is a horrible leader. Russia is the number one country in the world for natural resources. Number one. Back in the 1990s we all thought the Russian economy was going to soar. Yet it falls down 85th in per capita GDP? Russian has a very functional and potential great infrastructure. Including several ports on the sea. Russian has educational institutions that also have great potential. The fact that Russia is 85th in per capita GDP is inexusable. That number is even skewed in a country with so many Oligarchs hoarding the resources. Lets compare a neighboring country. Someone called Germany a "vassal" state. Well in such a vassal state the GDP has grown 4 times its size in the time that Putin has been in charge of Russia. German citizens make up 4. 4 percent of global millionaires, while Russian makes up only. 5 percent. Average worker's salary in Germany is 43000 Euro. In Russia that number drops to 6200 Euro. one sixth! Pathetic. I do not criticize countries leaders when the country does do not have potential. Putin's entire time in office is a portrait of squandered oppurtunity. The whole GDP of Russian if he had taken every advantage and structured a free economy instead of a cronyist oligarchy? Probably could have been twice that of Germany at least one and one half the size. Somewhere betwenn 6 and 8 trillion euro.
People around the world blame Putin, not just Americans, you seem to let your hatred of America drive your thinking, but people blame Putin himself because we still love the Russian people. A rich cultural people who I pray someday can meet their potential.
Russian says that NATO is a "threat" but the whole rest of the world knows that it is not. NATO treaty is a public document that the whole world is welcome to read. It states plainly that if one country of NATO is attacked then the other countries will defend that country. If one country decides to attack another country than by no means is NATO obligated to jump in.
Russia has thousands of nuclear weapons, that is probably the only reason there are not F22 Raptors currently enforcing a no-fly zone over Ukraine right now. No one is foolish enought to balatantly attack Russia. It is certain that it is a reason that NATO or any Eastern European nation would not start a war with Russia. If Russia were attacked even the UN would not argue with the use of tactical nuclear weapons. What fool would attack a country that posseses thousands of nuclear weapons. Its a deterrence that works. Its way beyond the scope of reason that any country or bloc is a threat to a country with so many nuclear weapons.
The real threat is that when a country like Ukraine gets real freedom and enters the EU and sees real econonmic growth - and so many nomal people who visit from Russia see this and start tu understand why Russia functions so poorly = and they realize the answer is Putin. That is the real threat but it is only a threat to Putin not to Russia
These are indisputable facts and not up for debate so I will say no more
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2673822]Why don't you tone it down? You just repeat US / NATO rubbish, with no personal in sight. People like you destroy this and similar sites.
Again, I admire your posts. It is a rarity when one can think through issues. The sooner the USA fucks out of Europe, the better. No point joining in as Americans just go Putin, Puutin, Putin, like the brainwashed cretins that they are.[/QUOTE]To all those brainwashed idiots standing with Ukraine:
[URL]https://odysee.com/@DanTheOracleFashyMusicArchive:0/No-Russian-Ever-Called-Me-White-Trash-by-Paddy-Tarleton:1[/URL]
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1503430216554795014.html[/URL]
It's a bit long, but worth a read (IMO). The author makes a few different points, but what I found most enlightening was the description of how the power struggle between elites close to the center of government (courtiers) vs elites with their power base in the regions (barons) is at the center of the dysfunction and corruption that plagues the Russian system. The failure of the Russian military in Ukraine is merely the most currently visible manifestation of that dysfunction, but it's everywhere and goes all the way down to the bone.
He also makes the point that, if Putin falls, whoever takes his place would probably come from the ranks of either the courtiers or barons. And, since both those groups are steeped in the prevailing culture of corruption, a new leader might not result in as much change as people hope. He also points out that "opposition" figures, like Navalny, may be nothing more than courtiers who have fallen out of favor. That being the case, those who believe such "opposition" figures are a key part of any long term solution had better do their homework first.
The impression I was left with is that there are no fully satisfactory answers. The shit has truly hit the fan and we don't yet know exactly where it will fall, or how widely it will spread.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2674447]To all those brainwashed idiots standing with Ukraine:
[URL]https://odysee.com/@DanTheOracleFashyMusicArchive:0/No-Russian-Ever-Called-Me-White-Trash-by-Paddy-Tarleton:1[/URL][/QUOTE]Can't say I like the song but odysee is where I go to get RT live. I get updates on an Indian proxy server. All thanks to US censorship. Facebook now allows direct threats against Russians and praise for Nazis in Ukraine.
Lavrov has said Russia is finished with Western Europe. Western Europe must now get rid of the USA.
As regards Yanks (advising to report or block morons, the issue is this site, like all other sites is full of them and with cretins who repeat Fox News / CNN type mantras. It is why you have all the Stupid Shit threads.
As regards the war, sorry to disappoint but Russia is winning it Russia's way. Nice strike against foreign mercenaries the other day. Unless you were one of the 200+ mercenaries who died.
Falsehood in War-time, Containing an Assortment of Lies Circulated Throughout the Nations During the Great War, was written by Arthur Ponsonby in 1928 lists and refutes pieces of propaganda used by the Allied Forces against the Central Powers. The Belgian historian Anne Morelli systematized the essential propaganda techniques of Ponsonby's classic in her book Principes élémentaires de propagande de guerre. Morelli explains how these principles not only worked during the First World War, but were also applied in wars into 2001:
We do not want war.
The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
The enemy is inherently evil and resembles the devil.
We defend a noble cause, not our own interests. (Just war theory).
The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
Recognized artists and intellectuals back our cause.
Our cause is sacred.
All who doubt our propaganda are traitors.
On that latter point, here is Herman Goering at Nuremberg: "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. "
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2674562]Lavrov has said Russia is finished with Western Europe. Western Europe must now get rid of the USA.[/QUOTE]Since the vast majority of countries are siding with Ukraine, with the exception of China, Belarus, and a few small countries, Russia is headed for an extended period of unprecedented isolation. Western Europe is ramping up defense budgets and figuring out ways to reduce or eliminate dependence on Russian gas and oil. It'll be interesting to see who comes away with the short end of the stick from that broken relationship. I'm pretty sure it's not going to be Western Europe.
Oh, but Russia can always count on their "good friend" China, right? Except for the fact that the Chinese never do anything free or against their own interests. So Putin should get ready to bend over and grab his ankles, because China will demand the best Russian natural resources at the deepest imaginable discounts. And it wouldn't surprise me if China used their unique leverage to gain even more concessions. Anyone who thinks China won't exploit their opportunities is living in a fantasy land.
About Western Europe getting rid of the USA, that's just not going to happen, no matter what you want, for the foreseeable future. As a direct result of Putin's actions, US-led NATO will be entrenched more firmly than ever, with more troops in more countries. And the icing on the (pushed into Putin's face) cake will be if Sweden, or Finland, or both, join NATO. So prepare to "get used to disappointment" as the saying goes.
[QUOTE] As regards the war, sorry to disappoint but Russia is winning it Russia's way.[/QUOTE]I haven't seen any credible military analyst who thinks Russia can't win the war, if they're prepared to endure the costs. The informed discussion centers around how much damage the Russian military and economy will incur, and whether any "victory" will be Pyrrhic in nature. If Putin's Plan A was to mount a quick "special operation" in which he captured Kyiv, deposed the Zelensky government, and was hailed as a liberator by a large portion of Ukraine's population, that's utterly failed. If the backup plan is to bombard Ukraine into submission, or until there's nothing left but scorched earth, he can certainly do that. Then, having turned almost the entire world against him, Putin can try to hold the smoldering husk of Ukraine in his hand and hope it doesn't burst into flame. No worries, the Russians are great when it comes to occupying hostile territory, right? Just look at their track record in Afghanistan.[QUOTE]Falsehood in War-time, Containing an Assortment of Lies Circulated Throughout the Nations During the Great War, was written by Arthur Ponsonby in 1928 lists and refutes pieces of propaganda used by the Allied Forces against the Central Powers. The Belgian historian Anne Morelli systematized the essential propaganda techniques of Ponsonby's classic in her book Principes lmentaires de propagande de guerre. Morelli explains how these principles not only worked during the First World War, but were also applied in wars into 2001:[/QUOTE]Everything about which you accuse Ukraine and the West of applies equally to Russia, if not more so. Within Russia, any media outlets that aren't willing to parrot the Kremlin are either directly shut down or "voluntarily" disband or suspend operations. I wonder if the recently passed law imposing a 15 year prison sentence for disseminating "disinformation" had anything to do with that?
[URL]https://niemanreports.org/articles/putin-ukraine-russia-media/[/URL]
I'm absolutely certain that both sides are engaging in propaganda and information warfare. Unfortunately for Russia, Ukraine is kicking their ass in that arena. But intelligent observers do their best to pierce the veil of manipulation, though it's not an easy task. But you've got it all figured out, right? All you need to do is listen to RT and that'll give you the pure, unadulterated, truth. Good luck with that.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2674562]Lavrov has said Russia is finished with Western Europe. Western Europe must now get rid of the USA.
As regards the war, sorry to disappoint but Russia is winning it Russia's way. Nice strike against foreign mercenaries the other day. Unless you were one of the 200+ mercenaries
On that latter point, here is Herman Goering at Nuremberg: "Why of course the people don't want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don't want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But after all it is the leaders of a country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or fascist dictorship, or a parliament or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peace makers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.[/QUOTE]Of course. And the unasked question is: Who wants (this) war? We'd ask qui bono but this one more (much more) than any others in recent and not so recent history has the potential for unintended consequences for all parties involved, for the entire world actually.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2674721]......If the backup plan is to bombard Ukraine into submission, or until there's nothing left but scorched earth, he can certainly do that. Then, having turned almost the entire world against him, Putin can try to hold the smoldering husk of Ukraine in his hand and hope it doesn't burst into flame.[/QUOTE]Whether one agrees with you or not, that is quite the metaphor.
The comedian Zelensky is suing for peace as Russia opens the roads into Kiev. The dog Zelensky now admits Ukraine will never be in NATO. Several hundred mercenaries were sent to hell by Russian missiles, serving as a warning to any other rat bags.
India and Pakistan (small countries) are dealing with Russia. Saudi Arabia is now talking of trading oil in yuan. Game changer as they say.
Germany has a choice: end the US occupation and exploitation or go under. If Germany prefers nuclear war, that is ok too. The main thing is to turn the USA into the pariah state that it is.
How about laying off Chinese racist stereotypes? Russia is a key partner in the Belt and Road Initiative. The next step is clear the South China Sea of the US 7th Fleet one way or the other. The USA is getting beaten in Ukraine. Hopefully, all mercenaries captured will end up in Siberian salt mines and all Nazis will end up pushing up daisies.
I hope the Chechens capture the aptly named Olena Semenyaka.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2674721]Since the vast majority of countries are siding with Ukraine, with the exception of China, Belarus, and a few small countries.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2674754]The comedian Zelensky is suing for peace as Russia opens the roads into Kiev. The dog Zelensky now admits Ukraine will never be in NATO. Several hundred mercenaries were sent to hell by Russian missiles, serving as a warning to any other rat bags.
India and Pakistan (small countries) are dealing with Russia. Saudi Arabia is now talking of trading oil in yuan. Game changer as they say.
Germany has a choice: end the US occupation and exploitation or go under. If Germany prefers nuclear war, that is ok too. The main thing is to turn the USA into the pariah state that it is.
How about laying off Chinese racist stereotypes? Russia is a key partner in the Belt and Road Initiative. The next step is clear the South China Sea of the US 7th Fleet one way or the other. The USA is getting beaten in Ukraine. Hopefully, all mercenaries captured will end up in Siberian salt mines and all Nazis will end up pushing up daisies.
I hope the Chechens capture the aptly named Olena Semenyaka.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/15/china-does-not-want-to-be-impacted-by-russia-sanctions-fm[/URL]
"China's foreign minister has told his Spanish counterpart his country does not want to be impacted by Western economic sanctions imposed on Russia following its invasion of Ukraine last month, according to state media.
"China is not a party to the crisis, still less wants to be affected by the sanctions," Wang Yi said, according to a readout of a phone call with Spanish Foreign Minister Jose Manuel Albares that was published on Tuesday".
China is walking a tightrope and, while they're happy to keep Russia on an IV drip, they're not going to sacrifice a single one of their interests for Putin.
Racist stereotypes? Really? Is that your new ad hominem tripe in view of the fact that some of your name calling posts got shitcanned? How is it racist to point out the reality that China is not shy about pressing an advantage when it has one? Speaking of racist, that's an apt description of the despicable terms the Russians imposed on the Chinese when they stole Chinese territory in the Amur Annexation. Is it racist to point out that China has a long memory? And is it racist to point out that, when China refers to its "Century of Humiliation," Russia was one of the offending countries? Payback is a beyotch and I'd love to see China turn the screws on Putin.
[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/china-exploit-western-ban-russian-energy-buy-cheap-oil-gas-bloomberg-1686332[/URL]
"However, far from swooping in to prop up the Russian economy and cushion it against the sanctions, Bloomberg's report suggests China may seize the opportunity to increase Moscow's already hefty economic dependence on Beijing".
And thanks for bringing up the BRI, since that initiative is rife with corruption, de facto debt servitude to Beijing, and mounting opposition.
[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/china-exploit-western-ban-russian-energy-buy-cheap-oil-gas-bloomberg-1686332[/URL]
But I sincerely hope you're right about Russia becoming an ever closer "partner" in BRI. I put that word in quotes because, while a true partnership denotes equality and equity, there is no scenario in which any future China-Russia interaction isn't going to be completely dominated by China. In fact, I recall recently running across the phrase "subjugated vassal state," which is a great description of where Russia is heading.
About other countries, many are walking the same tightrope as China, only on a smaller scale. India's a good example as they're also looking to benefit from bargain basement prices for Russian oil and resources.
[URL]https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/3170407/india-may-buy-discounted-russian-oil-and-commodities-say-officials[/URL]
But self-interest, by any country, is a far cry from supporting Putin's actions. Even China is now calling it a war, and calling for an end to violence. The difference between tightrope-walking and true support is that, if and when the sanctions calculus changes, the tightrope-walkers won't hesitate to dial down or abandon their transactions with Russia.
Putin can certainly lob bombs and missiles, but he hasn't managed a single notable military achievement. In the meantime, depending on the analyst cited, he's lost anywhere from several thousands to 10,000+ troops, several of his generals, and a shitload of tanks and military vehicles. As I said before, his Plan A has utterly failed. If he wants to carpet bomb, or resort to chemical warfare or tactical nukes, then all bets are off. I don't have a crystal ball that tells the future, although obviously you think you've got it all figured out.
My gut feeling is that the regular military would balk at following an order to launch nukes, assuming Putin is insane enough to give such an order. I doubt that the officers in that particular chain of command want to see Moscow and Leningrad, among others, turned into (bring your own hazmat suit and skates) year-round skating rinks.
What's quite apparent is that Putin completely miscalculated in his assessment of Ukraine's resistance, and the West's response. Indisputable evidence of this is that he left somewhere between 40% to 50% of his central bank reserves in offshore deposits and denominated in dollars, euros, and yen. He's lost access to those funds when, had he not miscalculated, he could have moved the money back to Russia. But it's great, when you think about it, that the ruble has become the most colorful toilet paper in the world! A little scratchy, but war is hell, right?
Oh, and just because you love to repeat your wet-dreams about the US getting kicked out of Europe, or the South China Sea, doesn't make them even remotely true. I've already pointed out that the available evidence shows European countries moving toward the US and NATO, not the other way around. And, when it comes to the Pacific area, Australia has announced a significant expansion of their military and Japan is seriously discussing a nuclear-sharing arrangement with the US. I'm guessing both those items are causing some heartburn in the CCP and, when they look for a proximate cause, they see Putin, Putin, Putin.
[URL]https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/03/12/morr-m12.html[/URL]
[URL]https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Senior-Japanese-lawmakers-eye-nuclear-sharing-option-with-U.S[/URL]
But go ahead and feel free to dream, if that's what floats your boat. And while you're at it go ahead and throw in a porn star or two. As for me, I'm happy to observe the evidentiary basis of things and to try to discern where that evidence points. Right now things aren't looking great for Russia, or Ukraine for that matter. It's a shit-show, that's for sure. But anyone who thinks Russia will emerge smelling like a rose is indulging in some Putinesque, Greater Russia, hallucinogenic trip.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2673749]I'm not convinced. First and only prior post was 1 year ago saying " Anyone here? What's the scene like?" and nothing more in the General Info for *Burma*. Next post he's already in trouble in Ukraine. No prior participation at all.[/QUOTE]I'm not buying it from the beginning something not adding up.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2674822]
But go ahead and feel free to dream, if that's what floats your boat. And while you're at it go ahead and throw in a porn star or two. As for me, I'm happy to observe the evidentiary basis of things and to try to discern where that evidence points. Right now things aren't looking great for Russia, or Ukraine for that matter. It's a shit-show, that's for sure. But anyone who thinks Russia will emerge smelling like a rose is indulging in some Putinesque, Greater Russia, hallucinogenic trip.[/QUOTE]Here is an article where a former NATO Secretary-General recounts the efforts of NATO to partner with Russia. Demonstating how much BS Putin is spouting about NATO being such a threat.
[URL]https://www.rferl.org/a/putin-ukraine-nato-rasmussen-russia-interview/31749844.html[/URL]
That blog post you linked in an earlier post about the inerdynamics of Russia was interesting. I had heard parts of that structure described by a Russian who's blog I was following a couple of years ago. The way they keep everyone poor so the "barons" look bad is sad. Use the country as their pinata and manage the propaganda to still look good themselves. I also believe what he is saying about Navalny, the west likes to put anyone on a pedestal that stands up to Putin. Yet in reality Navalny is still alive and even tweeting from Jail? Really? I liked Boris Nemtsov, but he should have been more careful and he should not have telegraphed his moves the way he did. He should have learned from Khodorkovsky's experience but even though Khodorkovsky only went to prison - Nemstov was shot down gangster style.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNBtvjsE4JQ&ab_channel=OxfordUnion[/URL]
There is a smart American I am listening to now. The USA is a predatory country that has invaded China at least one. The Chinese have long memories.
Germany has allowed the USA sink Nordstream 2. Ukrainian immigration, caused by the USA arming Ukrainian Nazis, is going to give Western Europe all kinds of problems. Iraq wants the US invaders gone but the USA will not fuck off. Afghanistan has to rebuild after the USA raped it.
People like to quote Einstein saying the next world war will be fought with hatchets. Up close and personal. Think about that.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2674822]But go ahead and feel free to dream, if that's what floats your boat. And while you're at it go ahead and throw in a porn star or two. As for me, I'm happy to observe the evidentiary basis of things and to try to discern where that evidence points. Right now things aren't looking great for Russia, or Ukraine for that matter. It's a shit-show, that's for sure. But anyone who thinks Russia will emerge smelling like a rose is indulging in some Putinesque, Greater Russia, hallucinogenic trip.[/QUOTE]I don't do drugs. Russia is getting out of Ukraine what she wants. And British and American mercenaries got more than they bargained for. Enjoy Zelensky (worth $1.6 bn, not bad for a clown). Hopefully he will go back to his day time job in Florida strip clubs. I'll go back to Stone.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2674822]And thanks for bringing up the BRI, since that initiative is rife with corruption, de facto debt servitude to Beijing, and mounting opposition.
..............................................................
What's quite apparent is that Putin completely miscalculated in his assessment of Ukraine's resistance, and the West's response. Indisputable evidence of this is that he left somewhere between 40% to 50% of his central bank reserves in offshore deposits and denominated in dollars, euros, and yen. He's lost access to those funds when, had he not miscalculated, he could have moved the money back to Russia.[/QUOTE]I don't think a lot of people understand that the Belt and Road Initiative is just a lending program on steroids. Many of the recipient countries don't have the institutions and stability to attract private capital. Government lending direct or indirect to the third world has a terrible track record.
Many here are too young to remember the Latin America debt crisis of the 1980's. China thinks they can manage these investments better than previous efforts. The Chinese have already had to take control of "assets". Foreign control over physical assets always causes resentment. The "investments" can be a debt trap for third world countries.
As far as Russia's dollar and euro reserves, a few talking heads speculate that this could spell the demise of the dollar. This sort of analysis demonstrates a lack of understanding of global trade and economics. In order to run chronically large trade surpluses, a country (I. E. China, Russia, etc.) has to park their surpluses in a foreign reserve economy as opposed to spending it domestically or abroad in the way of imports. That country also doesn't want money flowing into their currency as this would also move through their economy as spending and result in imports. In other words, at this point in its economic development China does not want to invite money to flow in from abroad and held in Renminbi.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2674934][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNBtvjsE4JQ&ab_channel=OxfordUnion[/URL]
There is a smart American I am listening to now. The USA is a predatory country that has invaded China at least one. The Chinese have long memories.
Germany has allowed the USA sink Nordstream 2. Ukrainian immigration, caused by the USA arming Ukrainian Nazis, is going to give Western Europe all kinds of problems. Iraq wants the US invaders gone but the USA will not fuck off. Afghanistan has to rebuild after the USA raped it.
People like to quote Einstein saying the next world war will be fought with hatchets. Up close and personal. Think about that.
I don't do drugs. Russia is getting out of Ukraine what she wants. And British and American mercenaries got more than they bargained for. Enjoy Zelensky (worth $1.6 bn, not bad for a clown). Hopefully he will go back to his day time job in Florida strip clubs. I'll go back to Stone.[/QUOTE]It doesn't take much to find someone who agrees with you. A couple of minutes doing a web search should suffice. You could do a search of (insert name of country) doing bad shit, and you'd be rewarded with plenty of results. But, in the end, it's merely an exercise in confirmation bias and proves nothing.
One interesting thing I'm noticing about your responses is that you studiously avoid dealing with reality-based evidence. Instead, you deal out a steady stream of ad hominem attacks against a variety of targets. Whether it's Zelensky, the US, regular Ukrainians, or anyone who aligns with them like Germany, they're all interchangeable when it comes to your oppobrium.
A second way you avoid debating the evidence is by posting about fantasies and items of wishful thinking that have no basis in reality. You want the US out of Europe and the South China Sea, yet the clear evidence is that Putin's aggression has driven countries closer to the US in both those regions. You can't deal with that reality, hence you ignore it. Your other oft-repeated fantasy is that Putin's campaign is proceeding according to his plan. The available evidence completely contradicts that. Consider, as one example, that if it had been Putin's plan to resort primarily to bomb and missile strikes, he could have done that without using such a large invasion force. The available evidence indicates that the initial blitzkrieg-style operation bogged down and failed. What we're seeing now is the backup plan. Similarly, the available evidence shows that Putin seriously underestimated the resolve of the West when it came to sanctions. See my previous post re Russia's central bank reserves.
And yet a third way you have of avoiding reasoned debate is by playing a shell game in which you constantly change the focus. The latest example is your mention of Afghanistan, which you use to accuse the US while failing to mention Russia's bloody and brutal record in that country. I'm sure you're aware of that chapter, which means your lack of mention was intentional.
The reason I draw attention to your shuck-and-jive tactics is not because I think there's any chance you'll change. You're obviously a pro-Russia shill who isn't interested in anything but promoting Putin, his agenda, and attacking anyone that doesn't agree. No, the reason I point these things out is so other forum posters can take appropriate note of them.
Clearly a Russian troll.
[QUOTE=Tomasb;2675228]Clearly a Russian troll.[/QUOTE]Tomasb,
There are also some anti-American, anti-West Marxists scattered about social media. They're taking up this Ukraine war to bash the USA And its Western allies again. They don't seem to realize Russia and China are now as far from Marxist as you can get.
Of course, politics makes strange bedfellows.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;2675413]What we know for sure is that Ukraine will be a very different place when this is over.[/QUOTE]
HulaHoops has also been saying the Ukrainians now hate foreigners. That is a grave concern, if we ever return.
Even during the pandemic I started feeling that people have not been as friendly as they were before the pandemic in this provincial city I was living in, which has been bombarded by now.
I did hear from the former freebee girl. She's still in Kyiv and is saying that now is not time to get divorced as she doesn't have money. So she has to stay in Ukraine, as her husband is not allowed to leave the country.
It may be even safe to say party is over for us in Ukraine. On the other hand, the condition may be set for us in Russia if it goes back to the Soviet time. Who knows?
[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2675503]HulaHoops has also been saying the Ukrainians now hate foreigners. That is a grave concern, if we ever return.
Even during the pandemic I started feeling that people have not been as friendly as they were before the pandemic in this provincial city I was living in, which has been bombarded by now.
I did hear from the former freebee girl. She's still in Kyiv and is saying now is not time to get divorced, so she has to stay in Ukraine, as her husband is not allowed to leave the country.
It may be even safe to say party is over for us in Ukraine. On the other hand, the condition may be set for us in Russia if it goes back to the Soviet time. Who knows?[/QUOTE]HulaHoops is a fraud. The account was created with a single "what's up?" post a year ago and then nothing until a string of posts about being in Ukraine. Whether this was a sleeper account created by Russian paid trolls is a matter for speculation. It might just be an individual troll in need of attention.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2675510]HulaHoops is a fraud. The account was created with a single "what's up?" post a year ago and then nothing until a string of posts about being in Ukraine. Whether this was a sleeper account created by Russian paid trolls is a matter for speculation. It might just be an individual troll in need of attention.[/QUOTE]Total troll fake account, zero proof he's their and nothing to show, I wasn't believing it from the get go, sad! Anyone that is their going through it I hope finds a safe way home, talking about bad karma on him, stay safe!
[QUOTE=PokerLover11;2675508]Russia supplies the world with fertilizer for their crops they have sanctioned the US to not receive any until at least after December, the only thing that is crippling is this administration.[/QUOTE]So let them take their fertilizer and shove it up their collective asses. Let's see what that does for the value of the ruble.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2675516]Ukrainians are under attack and, while the primary object of hate is Putin (plus all his supporters and enablers), it's not surprising that they might feel varying levels of anger at those countries they think could and should be doing more to help.
The "No Fly Zone" is probably the best current example. It's perfectly rational and reasonable for NATO countries to point out how the imposition of a NFZ would escalate the situation and likely make things worse. But Ukrainians who've lost loved ones and seen their towns and cities reduced to rubble aren't feeling particularly reasonable, and their responses are (understandably) coming from an emotional place, not a rational one.
Such strength of feeling is likely to last a long time for many, perhaps even generations. While there will certainly be individual, and perhaps regional, variations, it's my guess the level of anger against non-aggressors will be highest against the stronger NATO countries, such as the US, UK, Germany, etc. That's simply a function of the fact that they have more power to help and, in the minds of many (most?) Ukrainians, have failed to do so or failed to do enough.
It's impossible to predict the future, and much depends on how long the war continues, and how it ends, but the country and its people have already been permanently scarred. Which means that it will be prudent for anyone visiting Ukraine to take that into account.[/QUOTE]I total not agree.
I'm still in Ukraine running supplies from west to central Ukrain.
Stayed in Central ukraine 150 Km west of Dnipro until 7 days ago, had to move more west due to the family.
But I'm still running supplies back and forth, and I not seen any negativity against me, more on the checkpost they like WTF why you still here.
Most people I speak with also understand why Nato just not can't close the sky, but the weapons that's coming in are helping.
Those who say this is a loosing battle have no clue about what's going on here on the ground, I don't say Ukraine will win yet, but they dint loose any SET yet if we can use tennis terms.
[QUOTE=RacShack;2675512]Total troll fake account, zero proof he's their and nothing to show, I wasn't believing it from the get go, sad! Anyone that is their going through it I hope finds a safe way home, talking about bad karma on him, stay safe![/QUOTE]It is a little hard to believe that a foreigner currently stuck in Kiev, would make posting on ISG a priority. You think they would spend every waking moment trying to figure out how to head West and get the fuck out of the Ukraine.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2675516]Ukrainians are under attack and, while the primary object of hate is Putin (plus all his supporters and enablers), it's not surprising that they might feel varying levels of anger at those countries they think could and should be doing more to help.
The "No Fly Zone" is probably the best current example. It's perfectly rational and reasonable for NATO countries to point out how the imposition of a NFZ would escalate the situation and likely make things worse. But Ukrainians who've lost loved ones and seen their towns and cities reduced to rubble aren't feeling particularly reasonable, and their responses are (understandably) coming from an emotional place, not a rational one.
Such strength of feeling is likely to last a long time for many, perhaps even generations. While there will certainly be individual, and perhaps regional, variations, it's my guess the level of anger against non-aggressors will be highest against the stronger NATO countries, such as the US, UK, Germany, etc. That's simply a function of the fact that they have more power to help and, in the minds of many (most?) Ukrainians, have failed to do so or failed to do enough.
It's impossible to predict the future, and much depends on how long the war continues, and how it ends, but the country and its people have already been permanently scarred. Which means that it will be prudent for anyone visiting Ukraine to take that into account.[/QUOTE]Depending on the post-war peace that is negotiated, it is possible the West can help rebuild the Ukraine. I'm not sure Putin will tolerate this. Perhaps if the Ukraine agrees to be a neutral state. I certainly don't think this is what Putin envisioned when he invaded the Ukraine.
HulaHoops is a fraud. The account was created with a single "what's up?" post a year ago and then nothing until a string of posts about being in Ukraine. Whether this was a sleeper account created by Russian paid trolls is a matter for speculation. It might just be an individual troll in need of attention.
But his attempt to vilify the people of Ukraine, people who are supposedly keeping him alive even as the Russians are trying to kill him, is highly suspect at best.
Let's not give this guy what he wants.
[QUOTE=Hestendk;2675540]Those who say this is a loosing battle have no clue about what's going on here on the ground, I don't say Ukraine will win yet, but they dint loose any SET yet if we can use tennis terms.[/QUOTE]Sadly, we can't go back to love-love. I don't think Putin knows what this word means.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;2675413]
Who knows what the future will hold. What we know for sure is that Ukraine will be a very different place when this is over.[/QUOTE]
I don't know how my post below ended up in the other "Stupid Shit" thread:
HulaHoops has also been saying the Ukrainians now hate foreigners. That is a grave concern, if we ever return.
Even during the pandemic I started feeling that people have not been as friendly as they were before the pandemic in this provincial city I was living in, which has been bombarded by now.
I did hear from the former freebee girl. She's still in Kyiv and is saying that now is not time to get divorced as she doesn't have money. So she has to stay in Ukraine, as her husband is not allowed to leave the country.
It may be even safe to say party is over for us in Ukraine. On the other hand, the condition may be set for us in Russia if it goes back to the Soviet time. Who knows?
[QUOTE=Sorbonne;2675553]
HulaHoops has also been saying the Ukrainians now hate foreigners [/QUOTE]Which is exactly the kind of thing a Russian troll would say.
So I went back to reread HulaHoop's supposed posts from Kyiv. Here are some things I noticed.
He first started posting (other than the single post a year ago) on 2/25. On that very first day he started to allege that Ukrainians hate foreigners.
He uses the Russian version "Kiev" rather than the Ukrainian version "Kyiv". (But that may just be an age thing I suppose.).
He emphasizes that he and his friends are all white more than once.
He reports Russian tanks on the streets of Kiev. Has that happened yet, let alone on 2/25?
In virtually every post he says the locals hate foreigners because their home countries have not come to the aid of Ukraine.
On 3/3 he says "I've never been in a place that's racist to white people before. ".
On 3/4 he shifts from warning other mongers to warning would be volunteers, with a dose of defeatism: "To any foreign volunteer: do not believe the Ukrainian propaganda! The military situation in Ukraine is dire, the media will have you think that Ukraine is winning. That is not the case whatsoever! Please be careful. ".
Is this beyond a reasonable doubt evidence? No. But Ive noted that today HulaHoop has remained logged in for hours at a time. That, and all of the above, sounds more like a troll than a guy in his 60s thinking that now was the time to go fishing in Ukraine. With a bunch of friends who agreed no less.
[QUOTE=Hestendk;2675540]I total not agree.
I'm still in Ukraine running supplies from west to central Ukrain.
Stayed in Central ukraine 150 Km west of Dnipro until 7 days ago, had to move more west due to the family.
But I'm still running supplies back and forth, and I not seen any negativity against me, more on the checkpost they like WTF why you still here.
Most people I speak with also understand why Nato just not can't close the sky, but the weapons that's coming in are helping.
Those who say this is a loosing battle have no clue about what's going on here on the ground, I don't say Ukraine will win yet, but they dint loose any SET yet if we can use tennis terms.[/QUOTE]After reading some expressions of concern about possible anti-foreigner sentiment, I thought it was worth pointing out how extreme stress can affect people. My hope was to promote a level of patience and understanding for anyone who might have a negative encounter.
I'm very glad to hear about your positive experiences and I fervently hope and pray for your continued safety. You didn't mention your country of origin but, from your writing style (please correct me if I'm wrong) I'm guessing it's not the US or UK, which is one of the variable factors I discussed in my post. You also mentioned two other things: family and the fact that you're helping out by transporting supplies. I'm guessing that people with significant ties to Ukraine, like family connections, speaking the language, residing in the country, helping in the war effort (and similar), are going to be viewed differently. Again, I'm happy to hear about your positive experience. Long may it continue!
BTW, I completely agree with your assessment of Putin's non-progress. This is a war of attrition and the longer Ukraine holds out (with NATO's help) the more the pressure on Putin mounts. I have no crystal ball for the future, but what's clear thus far is that Russia's initial plan has failed and Russia has become a pariah state.
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504103672019513345[/URL]
A bit long, but worth a read, IMO. The author makes the point that Russia's mismanagement of areas it's controlled, such as Crimea and Donbass, has had a negative effect on pro-Russia attitudes.
Those who have lived in Ukraine can validate, or refute, from their personal knowledge. It's beyond my experience, but it does make for an interesting hypothesis as to why cities like Kharkiv are strongly resisting, rather than welcoming Russia.
[QUOTE=PokerLover11;2675508]Russia supplies the world with fertilizer for their crops they have sanctioned the US to not receive any until at least after December, the only thing that is crippling is this administration.[/QUOTE]No single sanction, by or against Russia, is likely to be the definitive and final blow. I'm not a farmer but it won't surprise me if they figure out alternatives, even if those are significantly more expensive.
What matters is the totality of the sanctions regime and which side can hold out longer. Russia is getting some assistance from China, although the Chinese are walking a tightrope and I've read mixed reports of their helpfulness. A few other countries haven't completely cut off Russia but nobody (including China) wants to risk getting caught up in the West's anti-Russia sanctions campaign.
What I don't think gets enough attention is the extraordinary number of private companies that have abandoned Russia, or are refusing to do business with it. How long will Russian planes be able to fly domestically without support and maintenance from Boeing and Airbus? I recently read that one Russian aviation official was fired after he let it slip that China was refusing to supply aircraft parts. But the point is that there are literally hundreds and thousands of variables, with each sanction triggering attempts to evade. It's literally a "Death of a Thousand Cuts" strategy by each side.
Hard, if not impossible, to make a prediction, IMO. My gut feeling, and that's all it is, is that Russia is more isolated and therefore more vulnerable. But sanctions aren't the whole story because, the more pressure Putin feels, the more dangerous he could become.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2675612][URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504103672019513345[/URL]
A bit long, but worth a read, IMO. The author makes the point that Russia's mismanagement of areas it's controlled, such as Crimea and Donbass, has had a negative effect on pro-Russia attitudes.
Those who have lived in Ukraine can validate, or refute, from their personal knowledge. It's beyond my experience, but it does make for an interesting hypothesis as to why cities like Kharkiv are strongly resisting, rather than welcoming Russia.[/QUOTE]Just want to say thanks again. The links you post like the one in this post have some real insight. I remember reading after the annexing of Crimea how Russian judges replaced Ukrainian judges in the court and Ukranians began being stripped of their businesses and property by a system of kleptocracy. Which means Putin was a war criminal even before he invaded Ukraine.
[URL]https://www.ukrweekly.com/uwwp/putin-prohibits-ukrainians-from-owning-land-in-crimea/[/URL]
[URL]https://khpg.org/en/1608809377[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2675612][URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1504103672019513345[/URL]
A bit long, but worth a read, IMO. The author makes the point that Russia's mismanagement of areas it's controlled, such as Crimea and Donbass, has had a negative effect on pro-Russia attitudes.
Those who have lived in Ukraine can validate, or refute, from their personal knowledge. It's beyond my experience, but it does make for an interesting hypothesis as to why cities like Kharkiv are strongly resisting, rather than welcoming Russia.[/QUOTE]It was interesting and tragic to see what Russification has brought to Crimea and the Eastern Ukraine.
I read further on the author's views on challenging Russia to break Putin's continue cycle of scaling up conflict. I have a couple issues with his views. First, the author's comparison to Nazi Germany is fallacious. The Russian military in 2022 is not as effective as Nazi Germany was relative to 1939. Second, NATO has always pursued a policy of containment and avoiding direct conflict. The policy worked until the corrupt and oppressive Soviet system crumbled from its own ineffectiveness.
One might say the invasion of the Ukraine is a brazen move. We however had Soviet violent invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. NATO stood by and let the Soviets bully and dominate their neighbors. Unfortunately, I don't think the United States and NATO can be the policemen of the world. It also appears China is not interested in working with the Western alliance in preserving global peace.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2671240]The Warsaw pact countries led by The Evil Empire invaded Czechoslovakia in August 1968,occupied it for few months, set up a puppet government, then withdrew their armies.
The rest is now history, But how does the Czech Republic now stand in world rankings?
'The Czech Republic Among the 20 Happiest Countries In The World'. [URL]https://www.praguemorning.cz/the-czech-republic-among-the-20-happiest-countries-in-the-world/[/URL].
[URL]https://kafkadesk.org/2019/10/02/czech-republic-ranked-in-worlds-top-10-best-countries-for-expats/[/URL][/QUOTE]The Czech&Slovak people didn't resist, Dubceck didn't ask Nato to intervene, Nato didn't intervene.
Now in March 2022 [URL]https://www.praguemorning.cz/world-happiness-report-[/URL].
2022/ text=Share%20 via%3 A,of%20 Happiness%20 on%20 March%2020.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2675875]The Czech&Slovak people didn't resist, Dubceck didn't ask Nato to intervene, Nato didn't intervene.
Now in March 2022 [URL]https://www.praguemorning.cz/world-happiness-report-[/URL].
2022/ text=Share%20 via%3 A,of%20 Happiness%20 on%20 March%2020.[/QUOTE]So, when the Soviet Union (aided by Poland, Hungary, and Bulgaria) removed the Dubcek government in 1968, it was essentially an internal matter between Warsaw Pact countries. Seen in a Cold War context (and with the US involved in Vietnam) how likely was it that NATO would intervene? Answer, not very.
Fast forward to today: the USSR and Warsaw Pact are defunct, the Czech Republic is firmly ensconced in the bosom of the West AND is now a member of NATO. Therefore, in looking at the totality of historical events, I would argue that Czech happiness is a direct result of no longer being under the Soviet yoke, or being chained by the Warsaw Pact, and being able to freely run their own country.
Also, given what we're now seeing in Ukraine, I'm thinking that Czech happiness is even more enhanced by the security they feel under the NATO umbrella. I wonder if anyone has done a recent opinion poll (among Czechs) re favorable vs unfavorable sentiment toward NATO? I'd love to see the results.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2675806]It was interesting and tragic to see what Russification has brought to Crimea and the Eastern Ukraine.
I read further on the author's views on challenging Russia to break Putin's continue cycle of scaling up conflict. I have a couple issues with his views. First, the author's comparison to Nazi Germany is fallacious. The Russian military in 2022 is not as effective as Nazi Germany was relative to 1939. Second, NATO has always pursued a policy of containment and avoiding direct conflict. The policy worked until the corrupt and oppressive Soviet system crumbled from its own ineffectiveness.
One might say the invasion of the Ukraine is a brazen move. We however had Soviet violent invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. NATO stood by and let the Soviets bully and dominate their neighbors. Unfortunately, I don't think the United States and NATO can be the policemen of the world. It also appears China is not interested in working with the Western alliance in preserving global peace.[/QUOTE]Since the Twitter user I linked to is a historian, it's not surprising he uses historical comparisons. But, as the saying goes about history rhyming but not repeating, there will always be elements that don't fully match.
It's my sense that the author views appeasement as something to be avoided because it will only feed the beast (as with WW-II and Hitler). We don't know how Putin will respond, but we know he views the West as weak and therefore anything less than a strong response is likely to fail. Lots of room for debate, that's for sure, but that's the gist of the author's argument.
You're certainly correct about 1939 German forces vs Russian forces now. Although it seems 2022 Russia had a high estimate of their own capabilities, especially in comparison to their low estimate of Ukraine's. Putin obviously didn't have an accurate and objective assessment, or things would have been done differently. He's had a reality check now, but he clearly believed in Russia's overwhelming military superiority. Hitler made a similar miscalculation when he launched Operation Barbarossa.
About Hungary and Czechoslovakia, both were charter members of the Warsaw Pact. This was in the 1950's and 60's. So, in a Cold War context, Soviet control and suppression of their satellite states, while being publicly and diplomatically condemned, would also have been viewed as internal to the Soviet Bloc. USSR-controlled territory was theirs to command and the West wasn't going to change that.
That's a far cry from today's situation. The USSR has dissolved and former Soviet Bloc countries have mostly gone their own way. Putin is now pursuing an expansionary campaign in a way the Cold War Soviets were not. At least one facet of his scheme appears to be a partial reconstruction of the Soviet era sphere of control, except now using the rationale of uniting ethnic Russians in a New (and Greater) Russia. Both Hungary and the Czech Republic are now NATO members and I doubt either country wants to turn back the clock. I'm not sure mid-20th Century Cold War circumstances are directly analogous here. Again, those tricky historical parallels may not fully apply.
One further problem with the Ukraine situation is that (IMO) it's a mistake to think Putin won't use any victory, or concessions, as license to pursue future aggressive expansions. Why would he hesitate to declare "de-Nazification" campaigns in the Baltics or elsewhere? And Greater Russia surely can't be denied a land corridor to Kaliningrad, right?
That's why the Twitter author takes a strong stand against appeasement. And, after considering the pros and cons of the matter, I tend to agree. How that plays out in a practical sense remains to be seen. But I don't see any indications that Putin will voluntarily stop.
Nuclear weapons changed everything. The game theory part is difficult enough, but the assumption of rational actors is itself irrational.
Nobody posting here knows what Putin's health is like. He might be going mad. And if he is, no amount of history will matter. He gets a nuclear holocaust if he wants one. We are not in control.
But if we do survive, I hope we will finally realize nukes have to be negotiated down and then eliminated. That will be harder than ever, now that the world has seen how third rate the Russian army is.
Prague's beauty is because the Wehrmacht did not destroy it in 1945. Prague has always been at the heart of Western / Central Europe. Lower Bohemia is where the Wars of the Reformation were fight, with 33% fatalities.
Prague has recently been colonized by flotsam, Americans in the main, pricing Czechs out of the market. It is a major centre of off kinds of shtt.
The 1914-45 European Civil War is over. It is time for the USA to pack up and fuck off back home to continue their manifest destiny of slaughtering the Natives and locking up Blacks.
Russia will bring Clown Zelensky and his Azov death squads to heel.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2675964]So, when the Soviet Union (aided by Poland, Hungary, and Bulgaria) removed the Dubcek government in 1968, it was essentially an internal matter between Warsaw Pact countries. Seen in a Cold War context (and with the US involved in Vietnam) how likely was it that NATO would intervene? Answer, not very.
Fast forward to today: the USSR and Warsaw Pact are defunct, the Czech Republic is firmly ensconced in the bosom of the West AND is now a member of NATO. Therefore, in looking at the totality of historical events, I would argue that Czech happiness is a direct result of no longer being under the Soviet yoke, or being chained by the Warsaw Pact, and being able to freely run their own country.
Also, given what we're now seeing in Ukraine, I'm thinking that Czech happiness is even more enhanced by the security they feel under the NATO umbrella. I wonder if anyone has done a recent opinion poll (among Czechs) re favorable vs unfavorable sentiment toward NATO? I'd love to see the results.[/QUOTE]
Either there is some serious scapegoating going on, or the reality is that Putin was led astray by FSB's Ukraine's division. Hence the unexpected (for Putin) outcome of the invasion. Be that either way, it's good news for Ukraine.
Neurosynth's observations about HulaHoop's posts seem valid enough. There was a strong sense of a joke.
Whizzing through so many sources and channels to see what the Future hold for Ukraine, I found this very interesting Article on Ukraine, and I am afraid it doesn't sound like a promising Future for the Brave and Lovely People of this Unfortunate country being destroyed.
[URL]https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/ceasefire-agreement-may-come-too-late-for-ukraine/[/URL]
"Ceasefire agreement may come too late for Ukraine.
To avoid the appearance of failure, Russia may agree to a ceasefire in Ukraine only after ensuring it has turned the country into Syria's identical twin. "
About the writer of the Article, a Wiki search shows what A a Beauty With Brains Born in Moscow.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ksenia_Svetlova[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2675612]A bit long, but worth a read, IMO. The author makes the point that Russia's mismanagement of areas it's controlled, such as Crimea and Donbass, has had a negative effect on pro-Russia attitudes.[/QUOTE]Thank you for the link.
Before this war, I made 3 statements to friends--I guess my predictions. I think I am right with 2 out of 3.
1st: There is no way in hell Russia will invade Ukraine--it just doesn't make any sense. I got this one wrong (2nd: If Russia invades Ukraine, the Ukrainians will fight like hell, and they will be better than anyone thinks they will be.
3rd: If Russia invades Ukraine, they will lose any pro-Russian sentiment they have forever. Instead of gaining an ally, they will make a steadfast enemy.
Yes. Thank you for the link.
Before this war, I made 3 statements to friends--I guess my predictions. I think I am right with 2 out of 3.
1st: There is no way in hell Russia will invade Ukraine--it just doesn't make any sense. I got this one wrong (2nd: If Russia invades Ukraine, the Ukrainians will fight like hell, and they will be better than anyone thinks they will be.
3rd: If Russia invades Ukraine, they will lose any pro-Russian sentiment they have forever. Instead of gaining an ally, they will make a steadfast enemy.
Nobody, could have ever predicted this outcome, but the longer it goes on nobody wins. There will be nothing will be left of Ukraine, Russia will be broke and isolated. The rest of the world's economy will be greatly weakened or worse.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2676131]Prague's beauty is because the Wehrmacht did not destroy it in 1945. Prague has always been at the heart of Western / Central Europe. Lower Bohemia is where the Wars of the Reformation were fight, with 33% fatalities.
Prague has recently been colonized by flotsam, Americans in the main, pricing Czechs out of the market. It is a major centre of off kinds of shtt.
The 1914-45 European Civil War is over. It is time for the USA to pack up and fuck off back home to continue their manifest destiny of slaughtering the Natives and locking up Blacks.
Russia will bring Clown Zelensky and his Azov death squads to heel.[/QUOTE]Bosnia-Herzegovina and Georgia are already in the queue to join NATO, Sweden and Finland are having serious discussions to that end, and I fully expect more countries to follow suit. And, regardless of how many countries formally join NATO, it's a veritable certainty that the number of US troops in Europe will increase, and probably new bases established. Oh, and I don't see any member countries moving to leave the alliance (not Czechia, not anyone).
Putin may have the ability to destroy much of Ukraine, but he's simultaneously flushed the future of Russia down the toilet. Sanctions will last for years, if not decades. There's already a been a brain-drain going on that is likely to continue, if not increase, as young Russians confront the limited prospects of an isolated country. And let's all sit back and watch how long it takes "good friend" China to start tightening the screws on their newly acquired vassal state. I'm getting the popcorn ready now!
Once again it's clearly evident that your fantasies are irrelevant and that reality is firmly pointing in a direction that is guaranteed to make your head 'splode. Putin has strengthened the West, NATO, and the US, in a way that would never have happened had he not invaded. Sposibo bolshoye, Vlad!
P.S. I have no illusions about Ukraine. All their future paths are varying levels of dismal for years to come. But Russia, instead of playing the longer and more patient game (like China), gambled it all and is now staring into the abyss.
Hello all,
Not much to report. It seems we will be leaving Kyiv to the border. We've paid a local to help us with transportation as I've mentioned before.
I had a long post written up as to proving my validity however it didn't get posted for some reason. Ah well.
As I have said before I have no reason to mislead or lie to others. If you let me know any pictures of landmarks in Kyiv you want me to post, I will take a picture and write my name on a piece of paper to prove my validity and that I'm actually in Ukraine.
As for the poster who is also in Ukraine. I don't have the PM facility.
Will every foreigner that comes to Ukraine get attacked? Of course not. We came at a specifically ridiculous and emotionally tense time. I hope other foreigners come to Ukraine and post their reports. If they disagree with my reports that's fine, they just had a different experience. The more reports on the forum the better.
I'm not a troll. If there's anything you want me to do, pictures you want me to take, phone calls or whatever. Please let me know and I will take them. As me and my group are leaving Ukraine, this or early next week. I'm not apprehensive anymore about exposing my identity.
As for me being online, I leave my laptop turned on almost 24/7 while I do other stuff. Plus please also accommodate that when I make a post, it doesn't show instantly but must be approved by admin before it is shown on the board.
Hope that's ok.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2676356]Bosnia-Herzegovina and Georgia are already in the queue to join NATO, Sweden and Finland are having serious discussions to that end, and I fully expect more countries to follow suit. And, regardless of how many countries formally join NATO, it's a veritable certainty that the number of US troops in Europe will increase, and probably new bases established. Oh, and I don't see any member countries moving to leave the alliance (not Czechia, not anyone)..[/QUOTE]Tell me something I don't know. Zelensky, a clown by profession, addresses the Israeli Parliament today. No doubt some Mossad hack will write his speech, just as MI5 wrote his Churchillian speech for the seals in Westminster.
Hopefully, Russia will shut him and his C18 and Azov Nazi pals forever soon.
The USA is the root of all evil, as millions of dead Vietnamese, Afghans and Iraqis could have testified had Uncle Sam not murdered them. (Ukraine helped the genocide in Iraq).
Europe has to get rid of its collaborators and strike deals with Russia and China and treat Americans at all levels as the jerks that they are.
There is a lot of disquiet that is hard to direct when Tolstoy, Dostoevsky, the Bolshoi, Yuri Gagarin, Russia cats, dogs and trees are banned. We have been down this road before in 1914. The EU and USA both run on them pty tanks. That is their weakness. Hopefully this time Uncle Sam will pay.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;2676284]If Russia invades Ukraine, they will lose any pro-Russian sentiment they have forever. Instead of gaining an ally, they will make a steadfast enemy.[/QUOTE]It seems that Russian political ineptitude has fortified the Ukrainian identity and its concept of sovereignty. Crimea and Donbas might even have lost their affinity for Russia.
On the other side, we will have to see how the Russian public views the bloody and costly foray into the Ukraine. This war is clearly not Georgia, Moldova or Crimea. The economic fallout is also something the Russian people have not had to realize from Putin's previous military actions.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2676356]Sanctions will last for years, if not decades. There's already a been a brain-drain going on that is likely to continue, if not increase, as young Russians confront the limited prospects of an isolated country.[/QUOTE]Not exactly what you are talking about, but I wonder if Russian servers will be cut off from the internet. Could Russian hackers be shut out of the World Wide Web or extremely limited?
This is a laymen's question. I would guess that there would be workarounds through neutral countries' servers.
[QUOTE]Tell me something I don't know.[/QUOTE]My previous post had, as its central theme, the increasing influence of the US and NATO in Europe. Since you've not only failed to refute, but also affirmatively conceded the point, the argument has been conclusively won (by me).
[QUOTE]Zelensky, a clown by profession[/QUOTE]Speaking of argumentation, your penchant for ad hominem, whether directed against Zelensky or any who disagree with you, powerfully manifests both the weakness of your position and your lack of ability to effectively defend it.
As a fun thought-experiment, I wonder how you'd describe Putin if you weren't such a sycophant? Would you dwell on his short stature? Some reports list him at 165 cm (5'5") and mention that he uses lifts in shoes. Would you derisively observe that his height deficit makes it deliciously appropriate to wonder whether he suffers from a Napoleon Complex? If so, you'd be perfectly justified in pointing out that his need for macho demonstrations, like riding shirtless on horseback, is evidence of that. Then, for an encore, would you indulge in some hilarious comments about how such overcompensation mechanisms are often indicative of someone having a male "package" that is less than adequate?
Was poor Little Vlad teased and hazed in the KGB locker room? Maybe his friends could tell us? Oh, wait, anyone who teased him has probably been exterminated by now, and anyone left alive knows better than to talk.
Yessiree, I'm betting you'd have quite a field day with Little Vlad, if you ever decided to switch allegiances! He's such a juicy target for your ad hominem barbs, don't you think?
[QUOTE]The USA is the root of all evil[/QUOTE]Yeah, I'm sure that's your first thought in the morning and your last thought at night. I wonder if that attitude is shared by those who lost loved ones to Mao's Cultural Revolution (deaths estimated as high as 20 million)? Or, even more appropriately since Ukraine is our current focus, those who were victims of Stalin's Holodomor (deaths estimated as high as 7 million)?
It's heartening to see that, while your bias is intractable, the vast majority of Europe has clearly rejected Putinism (the new Stalinism) in favor of the Western model. And that model, for the foreseeable future, includes increased influence in Europe for the US and NATO.
[QUOTE]Europe has to get rid of its collaborators [/QUOTE][QUOTE]Hopefully, Russia[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] Hopefully this time Uncle Sam[/QUOTE]Ah, yes! No post of yours would be complete without referencing your (futile) hopes and (desperate) dreams! Too bad for you that all the weight of reality and evidence is heading in the other direction, namely a deeper and more extensive collaboration between Europe and the US.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2676251]
"Ceasefire agreement may come too late for Ukraine.
To avoid the appearance of failure, Russia may agree to a ceasefire in Ukraine only after ensuring it has turned the country into Syria's identical twin. "[/QUOTE]I've thought the same, because the strategy to wreck Ukraine's economics could have been a sure way to prevent it from becoming a member of the EU. But we'll see how the EU will react to this, if it's seen as a purposeful act. If there is need for low-paid workforce in Europe, that could support the acceptance of membership.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2676286]Yes. Thank you for the link.
If Russia invades Ukraine, the Ukrainians will fight like hell, and they will be better than anyone thinks they will be.
[/QUOTE]I have had a profound respect for the Ukrainian people's spirit to fight for their freedom since 2013.
If anyone had been paying attention in 2013 and 2014 when their corrupt president betrayed them and they rose up and protested and the more protesters they killed and kidnapped the more people showed up to protest and fight.
This documentary "Winter on Fire" captured this perfectly. This was them fighting when they had no guns and the people they were fight did have guns. That takes some balls. The video starts dark but just for a few seconds.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzNxLzFfR5w[/URL]
[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2676607]...I had a long post written up as to proving my validity however it didn't get posted for some reason. Ah well.
.[/QUOTE]Please post a wide shot outdoors with a Ukrainian flag in the background, and you in the foreground. Or the classic picture where you are holding a local dated newspaper up would be a good one.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2676777]My previous post had, as its central theme, the increasing influence of the US and NATO in Europe. Since you've not only failed to refute, but also affirmatively conceded the point, the argument has been conclusively won (by me).
[/QUOTE]Thank you! Well said! Salut!
He doesn't need to show his face FFS, the wide shot, and hand showing HulaHoops, ISG and date will be fine.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2676970]Please post a wide shot outdoors with a Ukrainian flag in the background, and you in the foreground. Or the classic picture where you are holding a local dated newspaper up would be a good one.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2676641]Tell me something I don't know. Zelensky, a clown ....[/QUOTE]This guy is totally unhinged and removed from reality.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2677017]This guy is totally unhinged and removed from reality.[/QUOTE]So best to just ignore "Evo" versus wasting valuable time on him.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2676777]My previous post had, as its central theme, the increasing influence of the US and NATO in Europe. Since you've not only failed to refute, but also affirmatively conceded the point, the argument has been conclusively won (by me).[/QUOTE]Americans like to win. The LA Olympics was the best ever, no competition. There is emerging competition in Ukraine in the form of Russian ordnance. Most of Asia, the Lev ant (which the US destroyed) and Africa (which the US rape) are watching, many wondering if Americans will be turned on the way Germans were after 1945.
I have not bothered reading your essay as there is no point. American expansionism is being blocked in Ukraine. That is the first necessary but not sufficient condition. Western Europe is going to take a massive hit because of US / NATO meddling. "Putin" can only be blamed so long.
I have has a productive day so far today and intend to stay on this winning track. No time to squander wrestling with American and their Fox News / CNN / Coca cola injections.
[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2676607]Hello all,
Not much to report. It seems we will be leaving Kyiv to the border. We've paid a local to help us with transportation as I've mentioned before.
I had a long post written up as to proving my validity however it didn't get posted for some reason. Ah well.
As I have said before I have no reason to mislead or lie to others. If you let me know any pictures of landmarks in Kyiv you want me to post, I will take a picture and write my name on a piece of paper to prove my validity and that I'm actually in Ukraine.
As for the poster who is also in Ukraine. I don't have the PM facility.
Will every foreigner that comes to Ukraine get attacked? Of course not. We came at a specifically ridiculous and emotionally tense time. I hope other foreigners come to Ukraine and post their reports. If they disagree with my reports that's fine, they just had a different experience. The more reports on the forum the better..[/QUOTE]I'll try take a picture somewhat close to the motherland monument. I won't post my face, I will write my name on a piece of paper.
Sun begins to set around 6 pm here in Kyiv so I will do it during the afternoon for maximum sunlight.
When I mention exposing my identity, I mean showing proof that I am actually in Kyiv. I cannot show my face as I am sure you all understand.
Kyiv is going into a curfew Tuesday evening, I will try to get it done before then.
Please also accommodate that it takes about a day or two after posting before my posts show here. Because of my low post count.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2677040]Americans like to win. The LA Olympics was the best ever, no competition. There is emerging competition in Ukraine in the form of Russian ordnance. Most of Asia, the Lev ant (which the US destroyed) and Africa (which the US rape) are watching, many wondering if Americans will be turned on the way Germans were after 1945.
I have not bothered reading your essay as there is no point. American expansionism is being blocked in Ukraine. That is the first necessary but not sufficient condition. Western Europe is going to take a massive hit because of US / NATO meddling. "Putin" can only be blamed so long.
I have has a productive day so far today and intend to stay on this winning track. No time to squander wrestling with American and their Fox News / CNN / Coca cola injections.[/QUOTE]Two classic ways of trying to avoid admitting defeat:
1. Change the subject (box checked).
2. Abandon the original argument (box checked).
It must be your worst nightmare that your pathetic ad hominems keep getting pummeled by simple logic and argumentation. Just like it must be Putin's worst nightmare that he's exposed just how weak his military is. As I've posted previously, Ukraine's future will not be an easy one, but Russia's future is in the shitter.
Russia already had a demographic problem, with low birthrates among ethnic Russians. Now they've isolated themselves and tens (hundreds?) of thousands of the youngest, brightest, and best, are leaving. Will that be offset by people emigrating into Russia? Not very likely, given current conditions, except maybe a few Syrians who have it even worse in their own country.
No matter what the outcome of the war, win, lose, or draw, Russia is well and truly fucked. And Putin is solely responsible. The rest of the world already knows all this. Putin's big problem will be when the chickens of awareness come home to roost.
Starts in 45 minutes. Will take pictures on Wednesday.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2677040]Americans like to win. The LA Olympics was the best ever, no competition. I have has a productive day so far today and intend to stay on this winning track. No time to squander wrestling with American and their Fox News / CNN / Coca cola injections.[/QUOTE]Speaking of injections, Russians like to win too, and will go to great lengths to do so by cheating, such as by injecting their athletes with banned substances. So much so that Russia can't even participate in the Olympics as a nation anymore! Rather, doped up Russian athletes must participate under the flag of the "Russian Olympic Commitee": [URL]https://abcnews.go.com/Sports/russian-athletes-competing-roc-olympics/story?id=79069924.[/URL] And even then, a Ruskie [B]still[/B] does not learn a lesson and tries to get away with cheating: [URL]https://www.cbssports.com/olympics/news/winter-olympics-explaining-the-kamila-valieva-doping-scandal-that-is-clouding-the-russian-figure-skater/.[/URL]. The only thing a Ruskie understands is strength. Peace through strength! War (and continued Ruskie cheating) through weakness! Sorry, but I could not ignore such "low hanging fruit".
[QUOTE=MojoBandit;2676948]I have had a profound respect for the Ukrainian people's spirit to fight for their freedom since 2013.
If anyone had been paying attention in 2013 and 2014 when their corrupt president betrayed them and they rose up and protested and the more protesters they killed and kidnapped the more people showed up to protest and fight. [/QUOTE]They had their freedom and then more and more fascistic elements and more and more western psyops and weapons showed up abetting a coup until the 'spirit of freedom?' was held hostage to extreme nationalism which has led to the present situation.
[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2677073]I'll try take a picture somewhat close to the motherland monument. I won't post my face, I will write my name on a piece of paper.[/QUOTE]And while you are at it perhaps you can explain what this means and why it's relevant here:
"I've never been in a place that's racist to white people before. ".
[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2677112]Starts in 45 minutes. Will take pictures on Wednesday.[/QUOTE]So not one pic since you been their? If so be careful no body sees you, hmmmm stay safe.
[QUOTE=RacShack;2677199]So not one pic since you been their? If so be careful no body sees you, hmmmm stay safe.[/QUOTE]I apologise, we haven't taken any pictures. It just hasn't been our main focus since we've been here. I will make an effort on Wednesday to take a picture close to the motherland monument.
In regards to the statement: "I've never been in a place that's racist to white people before."
I am more relaxed and logical now. Basically because I know I will be leaving Kyiv soon and I admit the statement above was an over emotional one.
I realize now that it's not fair whatsoever to judge people based on how they behave during wartime. I understand perfectly now that during wartime, the native civilians are given priority.
At the time I made the statement, I was extremely stressed and not sleeping well whatsoever. As I have said before we made the wrong decision to come here.
That particular statement came from some situations my group and I experienced.
1. One situation was when we went to purchase some items / seek assistance and we were ignored / brushed aside, while Ukrainians were given preferential treatment.
Looking back at the situation now, I am not angry. In wartime, native civilians are given priority. Maybe if we were able to speak Ukrainian, the situation might have been different. However I am not angry whatsoever.
2. An argument with some older Ukrainian men that did become a bit heated / a little physical.
Reflecting on this situation, these men were angry and looking for someone to blame. There were no lasting injuries and as I said before, it's not right for me to judge the actions of people during wartime. They were just jealous that we are able to leave the country and they are forced to stay.
The situations above are outliers but at the time I wrote the post, they were very distressing and it seemed that people were angry.
Are most Ukrainians like the people above? No. Most are just doing their best to stay sane and calm during this crazy period. They just want to go back to their normal lives and for the Russians to leave.
The young man who is helping us. He is going above and beyond for us. He got us resources, translated and has been our guide. He is helping us to leave Ukraine and for that we are paying him a great amount. He has become our friend and even introduced us to his extended family. When we do leave, we are determined to keep in contact with him and he has mentioned that we will always be welcome to stay with him.
My earlier posts are a bit emotional to be honest. All people are going to act differently when their country is being bombed, attacked and they are at war. Especially in the early days of war. If my country was being invaded and attacked, my first priority would be ensuring the safety of my family and those around me. I won't care about anyone else outside of that circle. I will repeat again, it wasn't right for me to judge the actions of people during wartime.
I do admit it saddened me to be called a troll and a liar. I however understand what would make you guys think that. I am a lurker, I read and don't contribute. However I will change that, I will start posting more and contributing value to the forums. I have been to Ukraine many times and this website has been a great resource, Kyiv is a wonderful place as I am sure we all know. Once wartime is over, I am sure things will go back to normal. As long as the Russians don't shell everything to dust.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2677149]They had their freedom and then more and more fascistic elements and more and more western psyops and weapons showed up abetting a coup until the 'spirit of freedom?' was held hostage to extreme nationalism which has led to the present situation.[/QUOTE]By no means am I looking at Ukraine with rose-colored glasses, but it's quite interesting to see criticism of Ukraine for having nationalist elements while completely glossing over the existence of the same phenomenon in Russia. Here are a few comments and observations to consider:
1. Interview of Nikita Khrushchev's great-granddaughter in which she calls out Putin for his poisonous nationalism. And, while she's not shy about criticizing Ukraine, the US, and the West, she's crystal clear about Putin bearing sole responsibility for the war.
[URL]https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/nina-khrushcheva-on-putins-poisonous-nationalism-and-a-new-new-russia[/URL]
2. Russia and Putin have their own history of cultivating nationalist and Neo-Nazi groups. Which means that Putin's pointing the finger at Ukraine is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
[URL]https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535[/URL]
3. The concept of Russkiy Mir, which imbues Russian nationalism with a religious component and fervor. Russkiy Mir (my take) elevates nationalist desires into a crusade in which Russia has both the calling and the God-given right to unite and rule over Greater Russia.
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/03/21/russia-ukraine-putin-kirill/[/URL]
Western and Russian psyops have been going at each other since at least the Cold War. And, even assuming a worst-case scenario of Ukraine applying to join both NATO and the EU, those processes would have taken years, even if those organizations were favorably disposed. I'm no expert but, as I understand it, unanimous votes are required to admit new members. I can think of at least two (Germany and Hungary) that would very likely cast a negative vote.
Before Putin decided to invade, he was in a position of strength and had "soft power" in high degree. He could have chosen any number of paths but chose this one. Nobody forced his hand. Now he and Russia are royally screwed because, no matter how the war turns out, Russia will be a pariah state for years, if not decades.
Here is a 'beauty', an illustration to all clueless w mongers who have no idea about the conflict.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrMwaRzeLJI[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2677107]
Russia already had a demographic problem, with low birthrates among ethnic Russians. Now they've isolated themselves and tens (hundreds?) of thousands of the youngest, brightest, and best, are leaving. [/QUOTE]Unfortunately, you will be right. Being a "Putin Fan" until annex of Crimea, having lived and worked several years in SPb, and several years in the South of UA, I still remember the brain-drain around year 2000, when, because of commercial issues, lot of very smart guys left their countries. I had an acquaintance, former Prof. of CS at SPb-State University, when starting his job in Redmond, with $icrosoft, he told me: 50% of my collegues here speak Russian.
And a lot of the "Russian Beauties" left to the West, too.
I appreciated it.
Looks, like history will repeat. Unless, Putler will be replaced, soon.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2677149]They had their freedom and then more and more fascistic elements and more and more western psyops and weapons showed up abetting a coup until the 'spirit of freedom?' was held hostage to extreme nationalism which has led to the present situation.[/QUOTE]"western psyops and weapons showed up abetting a coup" - How delusional. The fact that the whole situation was public knowledge that the Ukranians did not want to be part of a pathetic Russian economic zone is just common sense. How pathetic is the russian economy! Choosing between russias pathetic 1. 5 trillion fiefdom and a 20 trillion free economy is common sense to anyone who is not delusional.
No sane human being would choose to be part of sadly ran economy that squanders resources on an epic scale and that could create wealth and oppurtunity for everyone but only rewards butt lickers instead of entrepreneurs. Russian does not have an economy. Cronyism where a handful of people are billionaires and everyone else is poor is not an economy. These are the facts.
Russia has more natural resources than any other country in Europe. It should therefor have the largest economy and most oppurtunity as any country in Europe. But hell no. Russia has ten times as many people and yet fewer millionaires than Belgium. Its a fucking economic joke. Russia economic management is the laughing stock of the world. No one needs to use psy ops to get someone to change their mind when its common sense.
I can see that some people do not respond to reason so they must live in a bubble of propaganda - I shall mute all such from here forward
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2677107]Two classic ways of trying to avoid admitting defeat:
1. Change the subject (box checked).
2. Abandon the original argument (box checked).[/QUOTE]I am not wasting my time arguing with you as you are not worth it. I am not going to go through your posts to see if the contrary is true, that you are some Henry Kissinger type into mongering.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2677119]Speaking of injections, Russians like to win too, and will go to great lengths to do so by cheating.[/QUOTE]In the Rambo movie, where Rambo beat the Rooskie, Rambo was jacked up. Lance Armstrong?
And banning Russian Paralympians? That is so sick Americans and the councils they control are.
No sport in politics, as it alludes to Israel, who shoot soccer players to mutilate them.
You are American, today's equivalent of a 1945 German Nazi. The moral high ground is not for oyu.
[QUOTE=Questner;2677292]Here is a 'beauty', an illustration to all clueless w mongers who have no idea about the conflict.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrMwaRzeLJI[/URL][/QUOTE]That fine gentleman is the Mayor of Kiev, is he not? No doubt, he would like some of the swingers here.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2677324]Unfortunately, you will be right. Being a "Putin Fan" until annex of Crimea, having lived and worked several years in SPb, and several years in the South of UA, I still remember the brain-drain around year 2000, when, because of commercial issues, lot of very smart guys left their countries. I had an acquaintance, former Prof. of CS at SPb-State University, when starting his job in Redmond, with $icrosoft, he told me: 50% of my collegues here speak Russian.
And a lot of the "Russian Beauties" left to the West, too.
I appreciated it.
Looks, like history will repeat. Unless, Putler will be replaced, soon.[/QUOTE]You are simply an American mercenary. Crimea has always been Russian, bar a short period when Khrushchev, a Ukrainian lumped it into Ukraine, where Lenin also dumped Donbass and Luhansk to satisfy Ukrainians.
You stick to calling Putin names. The emigration you speak of is part of the American exploitative way. The solution is to kick the USA out of Europe. Hopefully, Russia will soon move things up a few gears. Not a good time to be a Nazi in Mariupol.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2677149]They had their freedom and then more and more fascistic elements and more and more western psyops and weapons showed up abetting a coup until the 'spirit of freedom?' was held hostage to extreme nationalism which has led to the present situation.[/QUOTE]If Putin has such a great case for invading the Ukraine, why has he shut down private media outlets and speech? Shutting down speech and dissent generally means your message is garbage. One thing I can say factually is that the West is still openly discussing and debating the Ukraine war and whether it could it have been abetted. Not every commentator agrees that we should be promoting the Ukrainian resistance. So where are you going to find the best information? From Putin's controlled media or Western media?
Kharkiv in the Eastern Ukraine was suppose to be a pro-Russian city. Why hasn't Kharkiv's Russian sympathies materialized?
Many of us really try to remain objective and not be overly influenced by media. However, there are certain facts that we string together to come to our own conclusions.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2677426]In the Rambo movie, where Rambo beat the Rooskie, Rambo was jacked up.[/QUOTE]As was stated. Totally unhinged and removed from reality. Buh bye!
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2677426]I am not wasting my time arguing with you as you are not worth it. I am not going to go through your posts to see if the contrary is true[/QUOTE]You can try to ignore facts and evidence, but reality keeps rising up to slap you in the face.
[URL]https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/nina-khrushcheva-on-putins-poisonous-nationalism-and-a-new-new-russia[/URL]
[URL]https://theconversation.com/putins-fascists-the-russian-states-long-history-of-cultivating-homegrown-neo-nazis-178535[/URL]
[URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/03/21/russia-ukraine-putin-kirill/[/URL]
Putin is absolutely the worst possible kind of Nazi, because he exploits racism and nationalism and religious fanaticism.
Oh, and I really don't give a shit if you don't read my posts. It makes little difference since you live in your Putin butt-licking fantasy world. My main reason for posting is simply to stomp all over your putrid ideology and expose its poisonous nature for all to see.
I am all against war! For whatever reason it is.
However I can't resist on one thing, the freedom of search of Western Media. The first thing Western policy has done is to Ban all Russian media!
RT is not available anywhere in Europe!! Oops!! We can say its biased! But why is the West / US afraid of the Russian Media!
In short, the west want the people to know only what they want us to know!!
Why I think so? We only need to think about 'Julian Assange', that is more than enough for us to know how the media works, if its in US, west or in Russia!
US just used Ukraine to poke Putin! And Ukraine is going to be another Syria / Afghanistan, and what not!!
Its business (for US)!! Nothing to do with freedom!!
Politicians are supposed to find political solution considering the life of their own people.
If you see press confress my Ukrainian president some 6 weeks ago, you will know, where this was going.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2677501]If Putin has such a great case for invading the Ukraine, why has he shut down private media outlets and speech? Shutting down speech and dissent generally means your message is garbage. One thing I can say factually is that the West is still openly discussing and debating the Ukraine war and whether it could it have been abetted. Not every commentator agrees that we should be promoting the Ukrainian resistance. So where are you going to find the best information? From Putin's controlled media or Western media?
Kharkiv in the Eastern Ukraine was suppose to be a pro-Russian city. Why hasn't Kharkiv's Russian sympathies materialized?
Many of us really try to remain objective and not be overly influenced by media. However, there are certain facts that we string together to come to our own conclusions.[/QUOTE]
IMO the following analysis by Neurosynth provides the sufficient and convincing proof that HH is yet another example of lying lowly life on our Forum. Too much attention paid to him.
Read carefully, and continue no further. Let's forget about the hating trolls, begging for attention here, and not deserving any.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2675587]So I went back to reread HulaHoop's supposed posts from Kyiv. Here are some things I noticed.
He first started posting (other than the single post a year ago) on 2/25. On that very first day he started to allege that Ukrainians hate foreigners.
He uses the Russian version "Kiev" rather than the Ukrainian version "Kyiv". (But that may just be an age thing I suppose.).
He emphasizes that he and his friends are all white more than once.
He reports Russian tanks on the streets of Kiev. Has that happened yet, let alone on 2/25?
In virtually every post he says the locals hate foreigners because their home countries have not come to the aid of Ukraine..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2677426]
Hopefully, Russia will soon move things up a few gears. [/QUOTE]You should be careful what you wish for. Russian has most likely seen over 7000 Russian soldiers killed over a three week period. Every military expert in the world that has weighed in says that Russia has lost at least that many. So when you say Russia will move things up a few gears do you mean they should get even more Russian soldiers killed? Russia is saturating the battlefield as it is, they cannot send more troops they can only get more troops killed Putin is having to recruit outside of Russia. Widely reported.
I guess it does not matter to you how many Russian soldiers die for a war they did not ask for. If only Russians like yourself had as much respect for the people fighting for your country. Apparently Russians like yourself are all about serving the master, a slave menatlity at best. No desire for liberty. How sad.
This situation is going very bad for Russia. That is more troops killed than the USA lost in both Iraq and Afghanistan over a twenty year period. No respect for the Russian soldier and no respect for the mothers who are losing their son to mad power designs of a dictator.
My favorite is the first one it is a video of Russians themselves demanding answers about why their Russian sons have become cannon fodder. Then the Russian soldiers themselves explaining that they are cannon fodder
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIw4kiZDmQ4[/URL]
[URL]https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2022/03/22/ukraine-russia-invasion-live-updates/7123227001/[/URL]
[URL]https://metro.co.uk/2022/03/02/ukraine-russian-prisoners-of-war-say-theyre-sent-as-cannon-fodder-16201609/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Mike963;2677588]I am all against war! For whatever reason it is.
However I can't resist on one thing, the freedom of search of Western Media. The first thing Western policy has done is to Ban all Russian media!
RT is not available anywhere in Europe!! Oops!! We can say its biased! But why is the West / US afraid of the Russian Media!
In short, the west want the people to know only what they want us to know!!
Why I think so? We only need to think about 'Julian Assange', that is more than enough for us to know how the media works, if its in US, west or in Russia!
US just used Ukraine to poke Putin! And Ukraine is going to be another Syria / Afghanistan, and what not!!
Its business (for US)!! Nothing to do with freedom!..[/QUOTE]No matter what people cite as "provocations" (US influence, or other), Putin had options that didn't include invasion, bombing cities to rubble, or displacing and killing civilians.
Most Western countries, especially those in Western Europe, have (correctly, IMO) branded Putin as the aggressor. That doesn't mean Ukraine and Zelensky were saints. It just means that Putin decided to start the fight and threw the first punch. And it's also relevant that Russia is the bigger country, with a larger military, which makes them look like a bully, which is even worse in the eyes of the world. Ukraine was never realistically a threat and even hypothetical future US or NATO membership was years away under the best scenario. And, as I posted previously, Russia had sympathetic countries in Europe, such as Germany and Hungary, that could have vetoed any membership bids.
This is important in any discussion of media because Putin is most definitely seen as the villain by those countries that have banned RT. Also, since the Kremlin has enacted laws that have resulted in the closure or suspension of independent Russian media outlets, it's pretty obvious that any still in operation had better conform to the official govt narrative, or else.
Countries that view Putin as the villain-aggressor are not adopting a neutral stance. They're levying a variety of sanctions on Russia, including revoking the license of RT, which they believe to be nothing more than Putin's mouthpiece.
It's also relevant to note that media companies who left Russia weren't directed to do so by their home countries. They left voluntarily, mostly because of a very reasonable fear of the new "disinformation" laws in Russia.
I'm guessing you can find an RT feed if you try hard enough. But nothing requires Western European countries to be neutral, which is why most are helping Ukraine and shunning Russia.
The poster with a handle Pedro Morales is not Russian. Brain drain, horrors of war, humanitarian disaster are all valid points, however whether most of you are uninformed, misinformed or don't have a clue about culture, history, land, language, origin of this conflict, current situation, I don't know. Please educate yourselves. Ask yourselves if you've got a relative, friend, colleague or a lover there, and when you start loosing sleep over daily news, then come and report.
When everything will be over you all will be welcome back, no hard feelings. I don't plan to convince anyone here to change opinions or alienate anyone.
[QUOTE=Questner;2677652]Ask yourselves if you've got a relative, friend, colleague or a lover there, and when you start loosing sleep over daily news, then come [/QUOTE]Or if you're Khazarian. Anybody from that cohort ought to feel entitled to say anything they want, anytime they want, just like they do elsewhere, without have to endure your self-appointed moderation.
[QUOTE=Questner;2677652]most of you are uninformed, misinformed or don't have a clue about culture, history, land, language, origin of this conflict[/QUOTE]Are you Ukrainian? Do you currently live, or have you previously lived in Ukraine? Do you have some relevant specialized experience or knowledge that others don't have?
You obviously feel you have a higher degree of understanding than others. That may indeed be the case IF you have the credentials to back it up. If you'd care to share, I'm sure everyone would give them due consideration.
In looking at your posting history, most of your recent (2021) interests have been in South America and the Caribbean, not Europe or Ukraine. Again, I'm certainly open to considering what credentials you might have that differentiate you from the average ISG poster, but it's up to you to share them.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2677426]
Crimea has always been Russian, bar a short period when Khrushchev, a Ukrainian lumped it into Ukraine, where Lenin also dumped Donbass and Luhansk to satisfy Ukrainians.
[/QUOTE]And? Whats done, is done.
Looks like, you and Putler do not care about contracts or agreements. Only good to break them, obviously.
Like the "Budapest Memorandum", [URL]https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280401fbb[/URL].
In which also Russia confirmed UAs borders. But Putler feels free, to break this agreement. Like Adolf Hitler did, with Stalin.
So, Putler is in good Nazi tradition.
Hitler brought back the "Sudentenland" back into the "Reich". Like Putler trying to do now with (parts of) UA.
Good old Nazi tradition, again.
The difference is, that the "to be liberated" population even in Eastern UA, which is very based on Russia, is fighting their "liberators".
Something, Putler did _not_ expect.
You are most likely a moron.
You mock Putin, whose father fought the Nazis but you use a nazi name.
Crimea is Russia.
USA should get out of Guam, Hawaii, Puerto Rico, Texas, New Mexico, California and that is for starters.
You have no clue as to what is happening in Ukraine because you have no access to uncensored news. Facebook allows hatred of Russians (community guideline) and praise of Nazis like the Azovs, because they are killing Russian speakers.
Go back sitting on your dildo, Weiner.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2677762]And? Whats done, is done.
Looks like, you and Putler do not care about contracts or agreements. Only good to break them, obviously.
Like the "Budapest Memorandum", [URL]https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280401fbb[/URL].
In which also Russia confirmed UAs borders. But Putler feels free, to break this agreement. Like Adolf Hitler did, with Stalin.
So, Putler is in good Nazi tradition.
Hitler brought back the "Sudentenland" back into the "Reich". Like Putler trying to do now with (parts of) UA.
Good old Nazi tradition, again..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2677426]Lance Armstrong?[/QUOTE]Comparing what Lance Armstrong did to what the nation state of Russia has been caught doing is beyond lame. Lance Armstrong does not stand for an entire, nationalized program of cheating. He represents only himself. This is why there is no ban placed upon the Americans by the International (not American) Olympic Committee. We my compete under our flag. On the other hand the Russian Olympic Committee, and all of the Ruskie athletes who must now compete under its own corrupt flag, is the current standing representative of an entire, nationalized, banned Russian doping program, which actually continues to this very day. Did anybody really think that just because we now have the "Russian Olympic Committee" that somehow the Kremlin-backed and encouraged cheating would cease? Hahaha!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2677624]I'm guessing you can find an RT feed if you try hard enough. But nothing requires Western European countries to be neutral, which is why most are helping Ukraine and shunning Russia.[/QUOTE]Good response. Western Europe (and the USA) is not even trying to feign neutrality.
Furthermore, shutting down RT is not a violation of free speech. Free speech is almost entirely the right of a sovereign country's citizens. This right is certainly not extended to a Russian state-owned media outlet. On the other hand, Americans and most Europeans are free to say and publish any opinion on the Ukraine. Russians are clearly not.
One only has to look at the extensive attention recently given to John Mearsheimer's (University of Chicago Professor) opinions on the Ukraine in various Western media outlets. One might conclude he is a Putin propagandist. However in a very real and pragmatic way. Mearsheimer believes that the West has to allow Russia to dominate and keep the Ukraine in the Russian sphere of influence. He is just one of many commentators opining that the West should avoid getting deeper into the Ukrainian conflict.
[URL]https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2022/03/john-mearsheimer-and-the-dark-origins-of-realism[/URL]
Is this shitty for the Ukrainians? Of course it is. Is this real sovereignty for the Ukraine? Of course not. This might be described as "realpolitik" as the West must back away some from unflinching support for democracy and human rights in certain parts of the world. This doesn't mean Putin is right. Or that he is not evil. Or that the Russian people would not be better off without Putin and his cronies. Realpolitik will likely be practiced as we enter a second Cold War that hopefully is short and evades armed conflict around the globe.
So do our pro-Russian friends understand that we are hearing all sorts of opinions in the West? Hearing them doesn't mean we have to agree with these opinions.
Social media is kind of a haven for pointless analogies and comparisons.
Before the "always Russian", Crimea was Turkish, and Mongolian, and Scythian.
Through the course of history, parts of Crimea were also Genoese, Volga Khazar, Greek, and more.
Russia simply didn't exist during some of those "always" times.
Nazi invasion in 2014 didn't make it Russian, not again, not always. According to the current international law, that invasion made the Crimea an Ukrainian territory temporarily occupied by the terrorist force from Russia.
BTW, take a look at the huge uptick in local real estate postings there. FSB and army moving out their families back to the motherland. As a result Putler issued a new decree preventing the exodus, as he needs more cannon fodder and hostages. He obviously doesn't care about human life, including the serfs of his own country.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2677762]And? What's done, is done.
Looks like, you and Putler do not care about contracts or agreements. Only good to break them, obviously.
Like the "Budapest Memorandum", [URL]https://treaties.un.org/Pages/showDetails.aspx?objid=0800000280401fbb[/URL].
In which also Russia confirmed UAs borders. But Putler feels free, to break this agreement. Like Adolf Hitler did, with Stalin.
So, Putler is in good Nazi tradition.
Hitler brought back the "Sudentenland" back into the "Reich". Like Putler trying to do now with (parts of) UA.
Good old Nazi tradition, again..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2677873]Good response. Western Europe (and the USA) is not even trying to feign neutrality.
Furthermore, shutting down RT is not a violation of free speech. Free speech is almost entirely the right of a sovereign country's citizens. This right is certainly not extended to a Russian state-owned media outlet. On the other hand, Americans and most Europeans are free to say and publish any opinion on the Ukraine. Russians are clearly not.
One only has to look at the extensive attention recently given to John Mearsheimer's (University of Chicago Professor) opinions on the Ukraine in various Western media outlets. One might conclude he is a Putin propagandist. However in a very real and pragmatic way. Mearsheimer believes that the West has to allow Russia to dominate and keep the Ukraine in the Russian sphere of influence. He is just one of many commentators opining that the West should avoid getting deeper into the Ukrainian conflict..[/QUOTE]Here's an excellent, recent academic response to Mearsheimer.
[URL]https://newrepublic.com/article/165603/carlson-russia-ukraine-imperialism-nato[/URL]
"Leftists in particular may think, when criticizing NATO expansion, that they are correcting their own or fellow citizens' biases as citizens of an imperial power that has often acted in bad faith. They may think they are adequately acknowledging this fraught legacy by focusing their critique on what they perceive to be Western expansionism. But they in fact perpetuate imperial wrongs when they continue to deny non-Western countries and their citizens agency in geopolitics. Paradoxically, the problem with American exceptionalism is that even those who challenge its foundational tenets and heap scorn on American militarism often end up recreating American exceptionalism by centering the United States in their analyses of international relations. It is, in Gregory Afinogenov's words, a 'form of provincialism that sees only the United States and its allies as primary actors. ' Speaking about Eastern Europe and Eastern Europeans without listening to local voices or trying to understand the region's complexity is a colonial projection."
Translation? The USSR fell, largely due to their own failures and inadequacies. A number of former countries from that sphere tasted freedom, enjoyed it, then asked for economic integration and protection from tyrants. Ignoring their agency while demonizing NATO is slanted analysis. Also, Russia nor anyone else tells us who can and cannot join NATO. This is decided by a consensus of the members, and Russia and any other country is also welcome to apply.
Furthermore Putin isn't concerned about NATO per se but of a large, thriving democracy operating on his border. That's a threat to his antiquated worldview, as well as to his autocratic power. The largely "westernized" youth of his country represent the same threat, but those are just quickly beaten up, then sent home or jailed.
That said we at the moment are doing both what is right and pragmatic. We are supporting the Ukrainians in defending themselves while calling out war criminals, while crippling the Russian economy, and all while avoiding direct conflict with a nuclear power. Any less projects weakness which is the wrong strategy with someone like Putin.
[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/23/anatoly-chubais-senior-kremlin-official-resigns[/URL]
Before getting into a discussion of this event's significance, if anyone takes exception to the "sinking ship" characterization, I would simply point out that it doesn't matter what you or I think, it only matters what Chubais thinks. As someone who's been in or around senior levels of govt for quite a while, he's obviously in a better position to know than anyone in this forum.
It's also noteworthy that previous Russian military "special operations," including prior incursions into Ukraine, never triggered such a response. Why now? My personal theory is that never has Russia faced such a severe and united backlash. And that Chubais is savvy enough to know that Russia faces a dim future for years to come. In other words, the ship may have suffered blows in the past, but it wasn't in danger of sinking the way it is now.
I haven't done a deep dive into his personal history, but he's described as having been an advisor to Putin. To me that means, at a minimum, that he was acceptable to Putin's circle of insiders and also seen as loyal and non-threatening. To have someone like that not only resign, but also leave the country, has got to be sending a few shockwaves through govt circles and potentially through the public at large.
It'll be interesting to see how the Kremlin handles this over the next few days. Will Chubais be portrayed as one of the "traitors and scum," or will the reaction be relatively low key? So far all I've seen is an acknowledgement that Chubais stepped down "on his own accord," without further comment.
One intriguing question is whether Chubais had an exit plan already laid out, or whether something changed recently that convinced him he needed to get out of Dodge ASAP? I'm leaning toward the former theory, as anyone with money and resources would be foolish not to have a full set of contingency plans.
It's a certainty that no official or media discussions that dwell on the negatives will be allowed. But I'll be keeping an eye out for signals of any possible ripple effects. If other prominent figures feel that the exit door might be slamming shut, who knows how they'll react? Interesting times!
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2677873][URL]https://www.newstatesman.com/ideas/2022/03/john-mearsheimer-and-the-dark-origins-of-realism[/URL]
Is this shitty for the Ukrainians? Of course it is. Is this real sovereignty for the Ukraine? Of course not. This might be described as "realpolitik" as the West must back away some from unflinching support for democracy and human rights in certain parts of the world. This doesn't mean Putin is right. Or that he is not evil. Or that the Russian people would not be better off without Putin and his cronies. Realpolitik will likely be practiced as we enter a second Cold War that hopefully is short and evades armed conflict around the globe.
So do our pro-Russian friends understand that we are hearing all sorts of opinions in the West? Hearing them doesn't mean we have to agree with these opinions.
Social media is kind of a haven for pointless analogies and comparisons.[/QUOTE]Forgot to repost your link, but it's fair to say that Mearsheimer goes further than your analysis, as he places blame for Putin at the feet of NATO. That's neither pragmatic (real politik) or real for the reasons stated in my prior post. And as to you saying that the West needs to back away from "unflinching support for democracy and human rights in certain parts of the world," well it's impossible for us to back away from a place we've never been. "Unflinching" support" would mean direct military intervention in Ukraine, where nukes off the table we'd mop up Russia in short order. We've never had any plans to do that, but we are projecting strength which is important when dealing with war criminals like Putin. We have the world's largest military and economy, and we set the terms, not Putin. He can use nukes assuming the order is carried out, but that's suicide. The more pressure that is put on him the greater the chances his own people will remove him. He's not only bad for the world but for them as well.
[QUOTE=Mike963;2677588]I am all against war! For whatever reason it is.
However I can't resist on one thing, the freedom of search of Western Media. The first thing Western policy has done is to Ban all Russian media!
RT is not available anywhere in Europe!! Oops!! We can say its biased! But why is the West / US afraid of the Russian Media!
Why I think so? We only need to think about 'Julian Assange', that is more than enough for us to know how the media works, if its in US, west or in Russia!
US just used Ukraine to poke Putin!
Politicians are supposed to find political solution considering the life of their own people.
If you see press confress my Ukrainian president some 6 weeks ago, you will know, where this was going.[/QUOTE]You need to understand that this is not me arguing with you. This is me explainging to you the way things are to you. You should think of this as a learning oppurtunity. So if you respond to this post with the same delusional drivel as your propaganda above stinks of I will not respond, I will simply realize that my intervention has failed.
Are you here to make us laugh? I do not think that Ukranians believe that being Putin's slaves is a "political solution". Putin started the war and yet you put the burden on Ukraine, that is not even in the same universe as reality. Putin wants to end their freedom. They did not "poke Putin". That is just repeating the propaganda. All Ukraine did was exercise their freedom. Putin hates freedom. I suppose you hate freedom too. You do not even seem to grasp what freedom is. There is probably no way to expalin it to you since you do not value it. I pity the ones with a slave morality. The free world admires Ukraine becuase they choose to fight rather than be slaves. Anyone repeating the Russian propaganda either does not understand what freedom is or they do not respect it because they have a slave mentality.
RT is still available in the USA. You must be a Russian troll since you just repeat all the same lies that are being echoed there. You are either being dishonest or you believe what you are saying in which case that reflects a slave mentality. Other than the horrific acts of brutalizing Ukraine what is being revealed is the lack of respect people seem to have for your fellow Russians. Ukranians are dying by the thousands and it is really sad to see that Russians have no respect for their young men who had signed up to fight for their country. Thousands of Russian soldiers are dying. Even by the most conservative estimates more Russian soldiers have died in Ukraine than American and allies soldiers who died in Afghanistan and Iraq combined over a twenty year period.
The fact that you repeat what the Russian propaganda machine has spit out means you do not realize that Russia does not have a media. There would be no point in trying to rationally explain to you how a "free press" works. It would be no point in explaining you that in the west Jouranalism is a profession, there are standards and ethics that many follow, not all but many do and if you have a free mind you know how to find them. In Russia they had some of those but they have all been shut down and only the propaganda remains. Russia now only has a propaganda machine. That is not media. When you say "the west want the people to know only what they want us to know! You are delusional. You have obvisouly never lived in a free society and watched time after time as the government takes on the press in courts and loses, something in the west that someone with a slave mentality can never understand. The fact that the press reported everything that Julian Assange reported should be proof enough to you that the western press is free.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2678041]Forgot to repost your link, but it's fair to say that Mearsheimer goes further than your analysis, as he places blame for Putin at the feet of NATO. That's neither pragmatic (real politik) or real for the reasons stated in my prior post. And as to you saying that the West needs to back away from "unflinching support for democracy and human rights in certain parts of the world," well it's impossible for us to back away from a place we've never been. "Unflinching" support" would mean direct military intervention in Ukraine, where nukes off the table we'd mop up Russia in short order. We've never had any plans to do that, but we are projecting strength which is important when dealing with war criminals like Putin. We have the world's largest military and economy, and we set the terms, not Putin. He can use nukes assuming the order is carried out, but that's suicide. The more pressure that is put on him the greater the chances his own people will remove him. He's not only bad for the world but for them as well.[/QUOTE]I do not share Mearsheimer's views on the Ukraine. I used it as an example of the multiple viewpoints that are circulating Western media. I've heard some Fox News commentators have been criticized for not wanting to getting further involved in the Ukraine war. I heard a business commentator saying isolating the Russian economy was self-defeating. Anyway, the point is that the West has a myriad of media perspectives because we have freedom of speech.
I think Mearsheimer's POV is important to consider though. It harks back to the Cold War struggle between the USA And Soviet Union. For several reasons, this is not a great global struggle between two superpowers with opposing ideologies. However, the Russian nuclear arsenal makes for some of the same strategy considerations. Already, we have this tentative (as you point out) physical support for the Ukraine. How much can the West support the Ukraine without provoking Russia? Ground-based anti-aircraft and anti-tank weapons are okay, but Polish MiG's are not. Putin has the diabolic advantage of what we use to joke about with Reagan in the 1980's. He is a crazy, motherfucker and you don't know how he will react.
To paraphrase the late Senator John McCain, Russia is a gas station with a pissed off, violent gas station attendant masquerading as a country.
As far as "realpolitik", Russia cannot project its power as far off and as extensively as the Soviets. However, we are already seeing realpolitik in play. It seems the USA Wants to speed up a reconciliation with Iran and get their oil back into Western petroleum markets. The USA Likely backs off criticizing Turkey, Saudi Arabia and other Mideastern countries for human rights. The USA Is already dancing with India's Modi.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2678006]"Leftists in particular may think, when criticizing NATO expansion, that they are correcting their own or fellow citizens' biases as citizens of an imperial power that has often acted in bad faith. They may think they are adequately acknowledging this fraught legacy by focusing their critique on what they perceive to be Western expansionism. But they in fact perpetuate imperial wrongs when they continue to deny non-Western countries and their citizens agency in geopolitics. Paradoxically, the problem with American exceptionalism is that even those who challenge its foundational tenets and heap scorn on American militarism often end up recreating American exceptionalism by centering the United States in their analyses of international relations. It is, in Gregory Afinogenov's words, a 'form of provincialism that sees only the United States and its allies as primary actors. ' Speaking about Eastern Europe and Eastern Europeans without listening to local voices or trying to understand the region's complexity is a colonial projection."
Translation? The USSR fell, largely due to their own failures and inadequacies. A number of former countries from that sphere tasted freedom, enjoyed it, then asked for economic integration and protection from tyrants. Ignoring their agency while demonizing NATO is slanted analysis.[/QUOTE]I agree that it is erroneous thinking to believe the Ukraine is a matter to be decided by the USA / NATO vis-a-vis Russia. The Ukrainians have agency and as a sovereign nation should have self-determination.
I think people forget that the Ukrainians quickly and overwhelmingly pursued independence after the Soviet Union dissolved.
Per Wikipedia:
"Voters were asked "Do you support the Act of Declaration of Independence of Ukraine?" The text of the Declaration was included as a preamble to the question. The referendum was called by the Parliament of Ukraine to confirm the Act of Independence, which was adopted by the Parliament on 24 August 1991. Citizens of Ukraine expressed overwhelming support for independence. In the referendum, 31,891,742 registered voters (or 84.18% of the electorate) took part, and among them 28,804,071 (or 92.3%) voted "Yes.""
After approximately 250 plus years of Russian domination and control, the Ukrainians amazingly maintained their identity and never really warmed to Russia. The Czars and then the Soviets fucked up the development of all the empire from brutal oppression and mismanagement.
It's the 1939 Winter War all over again, which saw tiny Finland stop the mighty Russian aggressor, inflicting heavy losses and humiliation upon the Ruskie bear:
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_War[/URL]
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2677762]The difference is, that the "to be liberated" population even in Eastern UA, which is very based on Russia, is fighting their "liberators".[/QUOTE]Free men fighting slaves.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2678038][URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/23/anatoly-chubais-senior-kremlin-official-resigns[/URL]
Before getting into a discussion of this event's significance, if anyone takes exception to the "sinking ship" characterization, I would simply point out that it doesn't matter what you or I think, it only matters what Chubais thinks. As someone who's been in or around senior levels of govt for quite a while, he's obviously in a better position to know than anyone in this forum.
It's also noteworthy that previous Russian military "special operations," including prior incursions into Ukraine, never triggered such a response. Why now? My personal theory is that never has Russia faced such a severe and united backlash. And that Chubais is savvy enough to know that Russia faces a dim future for years to come. In other words, the ship may have suffered blows in the past, but it wasn't in danger of sinking the way it is now.
I haven't done a deep dive into his personal history, but he's described as having been an advisor to Putin. To me that means, at a minimum, that he was acceptable to Putin's circle of insiders and also seen as loyal and non-threatening. To have someone like that not only resign, but also leave the country, has got to be sending a few shockwaves through govt circles and potentially through the public at large.
It'll be interesting to see how the Kremlin handles this over the next few days. Will Chubais be portrayed as one of the "traitors and scum," or will the reaction be relatively low key? So far all I've seen is an acknowledgement that Chubais stepped down "on his own accord," without further comment.
One intriguing question is whether Chubais had an exit plan already laid out, or whether something changed recently that convinced him he needed to get out of Dodge ASAP? I'm leaning toward the former theory, as anyone with money and resources would be foolish not to have a full set of contingency plans.
It's a certainty that no official or media discussions that dwell on the negatives will be allowed. But I'll be keeping an eye out for signals of any possible ripple effects. If other prominent figures feel that the exit door might be slamming shut, who knows how they'll react? Interesting times![/QUOTE]Chubais was more than an "advisor" to Putin. Chubais is one of the main creators of Putin. His cast a decisive vote (allegedly) when a small group of Russian oligarchs made Putin a heir apparent to Boris Yeltsin back in 1997.
Having said that, I wouldn't read too much into Chubais' "defection". I've read that 300,000 Russians have fled the country in the last month alone, so you don't have to be sly Chubais to know that Russia is poison right now, and this is not going to change any time soon, no matter what they do (or don't do) next.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2677774]You are most likely a moron.
You mock Putin, whose father fought the Nazis but you use a nazi name.
[/QUOTE]"Most likely"? Wow! You're giving him a benefit of a doubt, ain't you a prince!
Well, I'm not a prince, so I'll give it to you straight. You ARE a moron.
Who gives a fuck that Putin's father fought the Nazis? Of course he fought the Nazis, every man in the USSR fought the Nazis. How does it absolve his homicidal son?
Imbecile!
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2680238]"Most likely"? Wow...
...Imbecile![/QUOTE]I refer you to my previous summary regarding Comrade Morales, which is now known as "The Vindici Code" LOL.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2677017]This guy is totally unhinged and removed from reality.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=VinDici;2680282]I refer you to my previous summary regarding Comrade Morales, which is now known as "The Vindici Code" LOL.[/QUOTE]Like X Partan or whatever the dog's name is, you are an American simpleton. His job here is to litter stupid shit and American Women / Politics threads with his cliches. Guess what. Russia is winning in Ukraine. The Nazis is Mariupol have been vanquished. The Russian / Chinese alliance is strong and all you have is Zelensky, a transvestite clown (look up the videos) who got to act as a President in a TV show and now gets to act the part.
Anyone in Europe paying attention. A small percentage in any country. Sees what is going on. Four million Ukrainian women and children off loaded on us, inflation, unemployment etc. As Europe impales itself, a big reaction is brewing. The American tank is running on empty and soon the bill falls due.
One more thing, you moron. Russia is not a Communist country though the CP, not that Pussy Riot American shill, are the main opposition.
To repeat: you are American and therefore stupid. Look up the futility of arguing with fools.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2680339]Like X Partan or whatever the dog's name is, you are an American simpleton. His job here is to litter stupid shit and American Women / Politics threads with his cliches. Guess what. Russia is winning in Ukraine. The Nazis is Mariupol have been vanquished. The Russian / Chinese alliance is strong and all you have is Zelensky, a transvestite clown (look up the videos) who got to act as a President in a TV show and now gets to act the part.
Anyone in Europe paying attention. A small percentage in any country. Sees what is going on. Four million Ukrainian women and children off loaded on us, inflation, unemployment etc. As Europe impales itself, a big reaction is brewing. The American tank is running on empty and soon the bill falls due.
One more thing, you moron. Russia is not a Communist country though the CP, not that Pussy Riot American shill, are the main opposition.
To repeat: you are American and therefore stupid. Look up the futility of arguing with fools.[/QUOTE]Pedro,
If you are a Russian, I pray for your country.
If you are an Islamist, I pray for your women.
If you are a Marxist, that ship sailed a long time ago. Today's Russia isn't anywhere close to being Marxist.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2680339]Look up the futility of arguing with fools.[/QUOTE]I could not agree more.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2680237]Chubais was more than an "advisor" to Putin. Chubais is one of the main creators of Putin. His cast a decisive vote (allegedly) when a small group of Russian oligarchs made Putin a heir apparent to Boris Yeltsin back in 1997.
Having said that, I wouldn't read too much into Chubais' "defection". I've read that 300,000 Russians have fled the country in the last month alone, so you don't have to be sly Chubais to know that Russia is poison right now, and this is not going to change any time soon, no matter what they do (or don't do) next.[/QUOTE]Is because I was sure there would be different opinions as to how close Chubais was to Putin, and the center of power. But that discussion is not terribly relevant because, whether at the very center or a bit further out, it's inarguably true that he was a member of the elite echelon.
And that very fact, membership in the elite ranks, makes his defection qualitatively different from (assuming your numbers are correct) any of the hundreds of thousands of rank-and-file Russians who have also left. Among the pro-Putin segment of the population, what elites say and do commands a high degree of attention. They may not care if tens of thousands of the youngest and brightest are leaving, viewing them as traitors and scum, but someone like Chubais is bound to raise questions.
Why? Because elites are at the top of the food chain when it comes to status, power, money, etc. They have it all, so why would one of them choose to leave all that behind? Chubais was, as I understand it, an outstanding example of a loyal servant of the regime. His sudden departure has got to be difficult to process for many, and a bitter pill for the Kremlin to swallow. And how will other elites react? That's difficult to say because they're all individuals. But elites pay close attention to such events because they're always looking out for their own survival, shifts in the power structure, and how they can maintain or improve their own status. So it's my gut feeling that, although done in hushed whispers, there must be a heightened level of chatter among some in the privileged class. It won't surprise me if more defections happen. Of course, if they plan and execute well, we won't know until after it's happened.
I've been following the news looking for further explanation, or comment, or condemnation, by the Russian govt. I haven't seen anything and, even if I missed seeing an article, you'd think that any communication from the Kremlin would be repeated and analyzed by others. As of now, it seems like the departure of Chubais is being given the silent treatment. That silence, in and of itself, deserves further discussion and analysis, but that's a topic worthy of a separate post.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2680339]Russia is winning in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]No one who has a clue about history declares a winner before hostilities end, and winning any particular battle does not equate to winning the war. Anyone looking at the early years of WW-II would have thought an Axis victory to be inevitable. It didn't turn out that way, did it? BTW, here's an hours-old article citing Putin's demand for Mariupol to surrender, which makes it clear it hasn't yet happened. In the future you might want to double-check with your master before making premature pronouncements.
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60926470[/URL]
It's also quite revealing that you conveniently ignore Putin's utter failure to take Kyiv. In fact, the many military failures have been obvious to all (except Putin butt-kissers). Not only failures, but also desertions and refusals to fight, have shown the Russian military "machine" to be poorly engineered, poorly maintained, and vastly overrated.
[QUOTE]The Russian / Chinese alliance is strong[/QUOTE]China is happy to engage in any alliance it can dominate. Russia is now a de facto subjugated vassal state, full stop. While it's useful to portray it as a "partnership," Xi controls the puppet-strings and can pull them however and whenever he wants. If Putin should ever balk at a Chinese "request," Xi can just cut the lifeline and watch as Russia sinks and drowns. So by all means fill your head with fanciful notions of supposed positive benefits. The Chinese will be quite content to wait patiently for their payment. And it's certain to be a big one.
Oh, and what do you think will happen if pressure is brought to bear such that China is forced to choose between Russia and Western markets? Buh-bye Russia, do svidaniya Putin!
[QUOTE]The American tank is running on empty and soon the bill falls due.[/QUOTE]It might be one of your wet-dreams that the American tank is running on empty but, as usual, you haven't provided a shred of evidence to support your fantasy. As a matter of fact, America has a multitude of tanks, all fully fueled, and is sending more and more of them to Europe.
[URL]https://www.militaryspot.com/news/colorado-based-armored-brigade-arrives-in-europe[/URL]
More US tanks, more US troops, more US influence. And who was the cause of Europe's current uber-welcoming attitude toward America? Why, none other than Putin, Putin, Putin!
[QUOTE]Look up the futility of arguing with fools.[/QUOTE]In order to come to any conclusion with respect to argumentation, it's an indispensable requirement that one needs to have an understanding of what true argument entails. The elements of argumentation, namely logic, evidence, and sound reasoning, are as foreign to your nature as the truth is to Putin's. In their place you've substituted invective, ad hominem, and wishful thinking. Therefore it's fitting for me to close the circle of this post by making reference to the subject line.
Oh yes, and let me remind you that I couldn't care less whether you read this post, or not. My sole purpose is to point out how vapid and lame your pseudo-arguments are. I'll let forum members read and decide for themselves, but you've thoroughly established yourself as a quintessentially pro-Putin, anti-America, broken record troll. And there is literally nothing you can say that will prevent me from dissecting every one of your posts and exposing their hatefulness, emptiness, and complete lack of foundation.
Troll / troll / troll.
[quote=pedromorales;2680339]like x partan or whatever the dog's name is, you are an american simpleton. His job here is to litter stupid shit and american women / politics threads with his cliches. Guess what. Russia is winning in ukraine. The nazis is mariupol have been vanquished. The russian / chinese alliance is strong and all you have is zelensky, a transvestite clown (look up the videos) who got to act as a president in a tv show and now gets to act the part.
Anyone in europe paying attention. A small percentage in any country. Sees what is going on. Four million ukrainian women and children off loaded on us, inflation, unemployment etc. As europe impales itself, a big reaction is brewing. The american tank is running on empty and soon the bill falls due.
One more thing, you moron. Russia is not a communist country though the cp, not that pussy riot american shill, are the main opposition.
To repeat: You are american and therefore stupid. Look up the futility of arguing with fools.[/quote]
[URL]https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/russia-facing-internet-outages-due-to-equipment-shortage/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.securitylab.ru/news/530708.php[/URL] (article is in Russian but will automatically translate if using Chrome browser).
[URL]https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/70000-russian-it-professionals-have-left-the-country-another-100000-could-leave-in-a-month/[/URL]
Notice that the reported numbers (170,000 estimated) come from Russian sources. And, even though those sources are trying to put a positive spin on things (it's only temporary), you can read between the lines and see the desperation.
Also, anyone who understands tech people knows that they generally have a pretty extensive network of likeminded friends and colleagues. That means, for each person who leaves and is able to establish themselves outside Russia, that will provide an example to others in their network and may incentivize them to make a similar move. And tech people are smart enough to see through the empty (or temporary) government promises being rolled out to persuade them to stay.
In most of the articles I've read about the effects of sanctions, not enough attention (IMO) is being paid to this phenomenon. And, the longer the war continues, the more brain-drain will likely occur and the more long-lasting the damage to the Russian economy is likely to be.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2680543]China is happy to engage in any alliance it can dominate. Russia is now a de facto subjugated vassal state, full stop. While it's useful to portray it as a "partnership," Xi controls the puppet-strings and can pull them however and whenever he wants. If Putin should ever balk at a Chinese "request," Xi can just cut the lifeline and watch as Russia sinks and drowns. So by all means fill your head with fanciful notions of supposed positive benefits. The Chinese will be quite content to wait patiently for their payment. And it's certain to be a big one.[/QUOTE]I found this interesting commentary in regards to Biden saying Putin "cannot remain in power."
Per Holman Jenkins in the Wall Street Journal: "My one disappointment was that China didn't pipe up to say, "No, Mr. Putin must remain in power," to emphasize just how thoroughly the Russian leader, through his own blunders, has reduced himself to a rag doll being fought over by nations that actually matter."
Xi Jing Ping has the pee tape and surprise, surprise Moscow Mitch is involved. Now we know the Republicans in Congress snort coke at orgies. Whistle blower Madison Cawthorne is on his way out the door.
[QUOTE=Beijing4987;2680858]Xi Jing Ping has the pee tape and surprise, surprise Moscow Mitch is involved. Now we know the Republicans in Congress snort coke at orgies. Whistle blower Madison Cawthorne is on his way out the door.[/QUOTE]I'm pretty sure no one in Ukraine, or who cares about Ukraine, gives a rat's ass.
[URL]https://www.proekt.media/en/investigation-en/putin-health/[/URL]
[URL]https://futurism.com/neoscope/putin-cancer-specialist[/URL]
The first article is a longer and more detailed piece of investigative journalism. It includes an analysis of hotel records that show which doctors have been closely associated with Putin over the years. For example, by comparing the doctors' travel records with Putin's known stays in Sochi (or other locations), and with known periods in which Putin disappeared from public view, it's possible to show the connections. Then, by looking at the specialized expertise of each doctor, it's possible to develop a theory (or theories) about health problems Putin may be experiencing, or at least is concerned about.
The second article is a shorter summary of the same information. For anyone interested, I recommend reading both, but especially the first.
Of course, since definitive information about Putin's health is a closely guarded secret, it's impossible to know for sure, but these articles provide some fascinating insights. And they're relevant because, if Putin is dealing with serious (terminal?) health issues, it will almost certainly affect his decision making process. If he thinks his time is short, and sees victory in Ukraine as essential to his legacy, then he will act accordingly even if those actions don't seem rational to others. By the same token, if other Russian elites believe that Putin is seriously ill, that may affect their own attitudes (support vs non-support vs self-preservation) toward him.
[URL]https://www.bitchute.com/video/6ZHPL2pTuadJ/?fbclid=IwAR3X5mTIhCVuEuKIktI9AyrVCIWR6DYkBv3e31ekxchptofTArv7hs1G9Ko[/URL]
Here is some contrary evidence that slipped through the USA net. American censorship means their victims are always playing catch up in these PR wars.
Here is an important question: how do you confront a perpetual liar? We have, for example, some dudes here who lies about their sexual conquests. One guy in the Thai board was bonking armies of upscale women a day. Another guy sent me a message showing how the first guy was a fraud. Although lots of others called out the first guy, my question is more general / generic: how are perpetual liars called out?
Although the USA had plenty on the Nazis in Ukraine, they now deny there are any. President Trump was banned from social media partly, at least, for questioning Hunter Biden. Yet we now know Hunter Biden has very serious criminal questions to answer over Ukraine. The circus continues.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2682070][URL]https://www.bitchute.com/video/6ZHPL2pTuadJ/?fbclid=IwAR3X5mTIhCVuEuKIktI9AyrVCIWR6DYkBv3e31ekxchptofTArv7hs1G9Ko[/URL]
Here is some contrary evidence that slipped through the USA net. American censorship means their victims are always playing catch up in these PR wars.
Here is an important question: how do you confront a perpetual liar? We have, for example, some dudes here who lies about their sexual conquests. One guy in the Thai board was bonking armies of upscale women a day. Another guy sent me a message showing how the first guy was a fraud. Although lots of others called out the first guy, my question is more general / generic: how are perpetual liars called out?.[/QUOTE]No one with a lick of sense thinks that Ukraine was (or is) run by a bunch of saints. But, whatever corruptions and sins they may have committed, or are still committing, Putin has washed them clean by his own actions.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Ukraine was engaged in all the nasty and negative activities of which Russia and Putin and you have accused them. So what? Was Ukraine ever going to be able to threaten Russia militarily? Were Ukrainian tanks and missiles ever likely to reach Moscow, or any other Russian city? Was Ukraine ever likely to be allowed into NATO in the foreseeable future? The answer, for anyone who hasn't drunk their fill of Putin's poisonous propaganda, is an unequivocal no.
As long as Putin maintained the pre-Feb 24 status quo, he could have continued to argue his point of view and many in the West would have been sympathetic. But he threw all that away when he launched his disastrous MudKrieg. He singlehandedly turned a situation that had many shades of gray into one that is starkly black and white. He is now and forever the villain. And he will now and forever be branded a war criminal and a butcher of innocent civilians. It's already done, a fait accompli, and nothing you say or believe will ever change that fact.
Putin acolytes and sycophants (like you) will go to their graves thinking that Putin is the good guy. But 99% of the world has already found him guilty. There is no good outcome for him because, even if he manages to seize and hold parts of Ukraine, he's turned Russia into a pariah-state. And even formerly pro-Russia elements in Ukraine now hate his guts. The sanctions will continue, the brain-drain will continue, and China is sharpening their pencils for all the IOUs that will be coming due.
Whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not, that's Russia's reality.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2682070][URL]https://www.somefakevideo.russiantrolls[/URL]
...I love Putin... Russians can do no wrong... Ukrainians are making everything up... It's the West that's doing all of this...[/QUOTE]Just so we are clear.
The Ukrainians took more than 100 bodies, dressed them up in civilian clothes, then tied them up, blind-folded them, and shot them all in the neck.
When they were done with that, they strew bodies over the streets.
After that they went around to different basements and dispersed even more bodies, as well as a mass grave, which they themselves dug.
In parallel to this rather macabre "false flag" operation, they hired over a 100 actors, who were instructed to tell anyone who asked, that the Russians have tortured and killed their loved ones.
After this operation was concluded, in record time I might add, we're talking literally just hours after the Russians left. The Ukrainians retreated, put back destroyed cars in the middle of the roads, and returned with the International Media in tow.
Also this same set up was repeated multiple times around cities in Ukraine. All just to make Russia look bad?
I am skipping American idiot Vndici, who argues by concocting quotes from me. He should be e tied to a lamp post as Ukrainians do to their minorities and his dick put on view to give everyone a laugh (and gay boys a free feel).
I have scanned your rubbish, will quickly go through it now and make some points.
The white bands BTW are one of many give away. Putin, who you stupidly link to me, does not have to appeal to yokels like you or your government which is complicit in long litanies of war crimes. Geddit? Let's cut.
1. There was no status quo. Ukraine's Nazis, some of whom are still holed up in Mariupol, were going to increase their murder rates. Russia stopped them by fighting Russia's wa, not America's kill and destroy all way.
The USA laughs at al this as the EU, bar Hungary, impales itself.
I am not a Puutin sycophant. Such a stupid comment shows you have watched too many John Wayne white hat black hat cowboy movies. Moron.
99% of the world has not found "Putin" guilty, you moron. By the world, you mean the USA and its West European and Five Eyes allies. China, India and Pakistan are telling the USA to fuck off.
Pro Russian elements in Ukraine? They are Russian, speak Russian, are inter married with Russians etc. They have been persecuted and murdered just for speaking Russian by scum supported by brain dead Americans like you.
China and Russia have excellent working relationships, you dummy. Their BIRI will prevail. It's the economy, stupid.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2682256]As long as Putin maintained the pre-Feb 24 status quo, he could have continued to argue his point of view and many in the West would have been sympathetic. But he threw all that away when he launched his disastrous MudKrieg. He singlehandedly turned a situation that had many shades of gray into one that is starkly black and white. He is now and forever the villain. And he will now and forever be branded a war criminal and a butcher of innocent civilians. It's already done, a fait accompli, and nothing you say or believe will ever change that fact.
Putin acolytes and sycophants (like you) will go to their graves thinking that Putin is the good guy. But 99% of the world has already found him guilty. There is no good outcome for him because, even if he manages to seize and hold parts of Ukraine, he's turned Russia into a pariah-state. And even formerly pro-Russia elements in Ukraine now hate his guts. The sanctions will continue, the brain-drain will continue, and China is sharpening their pencils for all the IOUs that will be coming due.
Whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not, that's Russia's reality.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2682467]...incoherent rambling..[/QUOTE]I think this is your answer to anything.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2682524]I think this is your answer to anything.[/QUOTE]The Russophiles of the Alt Right, USA and around the world have a lot in common with the Putin regime in that anything they don't like, anything they don't want to hear is dismissed out of hand as "fake" "rigged" "staged" etc. Though Ukraine at the moment is getting by far the worst of it, we are talking about a cancer that has infected the much of the world.
P.S. Satellite images confirm that the same dead civilian bodies were laying on the ground in Bucha back on March 18th when the Russians were in control of the city. But of course this likewise will be dismissed as "fake news. " There's no convincing these sheeple and their leaders. All we can do is try to contain them, keep blood off their hands which is proving to be quite the challenge.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2675806]One might say the invasion of the Ukraine is a brazen move. We however had Soviet violent invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. NATO stood by and let the Soviets bully and dominate their neighbors. [/QUOTE]I think the key difference here is that there was consensus, right or wrong, amongst Western nations that Czechoslovakia and Hungary were within the USSR's sphere of influence. Recall the the Cuban missile crisis was the result of the USSR operating in what had previously been agreed to be solely in the USA's sphere of influence. There were lines and although there was a moral argument to be made in favor of supporting the popular uprisings in both CZ and H, the best case scenario would have seen the USSR using western engagement in Warsaw Pact countries as permission to take overt action supporting communists in Western Europe.
Although you could easily argue that Ukraine and the other former Soviet Republics are within Russia's sphere of influence today, but absent a true Cold War (prior to February at least), it's not difficult to make the case that Russia is too poor and insufficiently powerful to have a sphere of influence anymore. Further, the brazenness of Russia's attack is compounded by Russia and Ukraine having a treaty that specifically precludes a Russian attack (which is part of why Russia continues to call it a "special military action", as instigating a war with Ukraine is a violation of Russian law). That treaty was part of the deal that got Ukraine to give up their nuclear arsenal. I have to think that Russia would not have invaded a Ukraine with a nuclear deterrent in place.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2675806] It also appears China is not interested in working with the Western alliance in preserving global peace.[/QUOTE]China plays geopolitics ruthlessly. China has no interest in peace. Rather, China is more focused on making money than war, unless that war is good for China Inc. In this case, sanctions and voluntary actions from the west are making Russian exports cheap for China and making exports to Russia extremely profitable in Beijing. China will only advocate for peace when / if there's more money to be made from peace and / or avoiding western sanctions, or if there's an existential threat to China itself.
Russia has shot down more NATO choppers trying to evacuate their scientists and generals from Mariupol, where they are embedded with the Nazi vermin. Stalin got to Berlin, Tsar Alexander got to Paris. Hopefully, these scum wil get to Siberia in a cattle truck.
The NATO filth are stuck in Mariupol with their Nazi pawns.
Hopefully, if not Siberia, the remains of these American, French, British, German and Israeli dogs will be paraded for the world to see what human filth looks like. The Biden family's bio labs have been caught. Your generals are being caught. Repent. The end is nigh.
P.S.: Don't repent. Suffer the consequences.
At least Western Europe is getting all the Ukrainian hookers, organ harvesters and more. Pity the USA is bankrupting Europe, making even baby oil too expensive for the wankers. Look at the billions Germany is giving the USA for the shit weapons. Russia laughs.
The explosion of nitric acid at the chemical plant in Rubezhnoye was carried out while considering the direction of the wind and a full understanding of the consequences for the civilian population of Donbas. This is a Ukrainian forces chemical attack. This is a major, deadly attack. Time for Russia to take off the gloves.
Reports are coming in a US general has been captured in Mariupol. Though I have the name, I doubt it is is him.
Either way, any Americans captured in Mariupol are not protected by the Geneva Convention.
There is some serious shit going on there.
[URL]https://ricochet.com/1214468/finnish-intelligence-officer-explains-the-russian-mindset/[/URL]
Fascinating insights from someone who had an entire career dedicated to analyzing and understanding Russian thinking and motivation. The article is a translation from a lecture given in 2018.
It's a bit of a read, but well worth it, IMO. It explains the historical basis for Russia's deep-seated insecurities (paranoia?) and constant need for an external villain and a "strong man" leader who will protect the country from outside forces and prevent internal chaos.
One conclusion I drew from the article is that, even if Putin is replaced, any new leader is likely to be cut from the same cloth. And that's simply because Russia isn't culturally or psychologically prepared for anything else. The idea that there will be some type of more liberal or progressive leadership is almost certainly nothing more than wishful thinking.
If Putin's failures in Ukraine cause his downfall, it's more likely that it will come at the hands of those who are more hawkish and militaristic. Putin's problem now is that his propaganda wrote checks that his military can't make good. No matter how he tries to spin things, he's abandoned any attempt to take Kyiv, the Zelensky government remains in power, and that will be seen in Russia as weakness and failure. The article gives insight into how Russians react to such things, which doesn't portend a bright future for Putin. Maybe he'll survive by becoming even more repressive, who knows?
As noted above, the lecture was given in 2018. For the (retired) intel officer's current thoughts on the situation, here's his Twitter handle:
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/maraj60[/URL]
(Most tweets are in Finnish so you'll need to use your favorite translation method).
[URL]https://m.jpost.com/israel-news/article-703209[/URL]
Mikhail Prokhorov, former owner of the NBA's Brooklyn Nets, has fled to Israel and applied for Israeli citizenship.
Q: Why would a rich Russian oligarch abandon his home country?
A: 1) he's had a falling out with the ruling elite and leaves to avoid being killed or imprisoned. 2) he understands that Russia faces a bleak future (sinking ship) and decides to leave while he still can.
I haven't found any information that leads to conclusion #1, which leaves #2 as the more likely explanation. After Chubais left, I posted that I'd be watching for the next one, and here he is. It's becoming clearer that the door has been effectively slammed shut for many Russian elites (by sanctions, etc.) but others, like Prokhorov, may just be waiting for an opportune moment.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2682601][URL]https://ricochet.com/1214468/finnish-intelligence-officer-explains-the-russian-mindset/[/URL]
Fascinating insights from someone who had an entire career dedicated to analyzing and understanding Russian thinking and motivation. The article is a translation from a lecture given in 2018.
It's a bit of a read, but well worth it, IMO. It explains the historical basis for Russia's deep-seated insecurities (paranoia?) and constant need for an external villain and a "strong man" leader who will protect the country from outside forces and prevent internal chaos.
One conclusion I drew from the article is that, even if Putin is replaced, any new leader is likely to be cut from the same cloth. And that's simply because Russia isn't culturally or psychologically prepared for anything else. The idea that there will be some type of more liberal or progressive leadership is almost certainly nothing more than wishful thinking.
If Putin's failures in Ukraine cause his downfall, it's more likely that it will come at the hands of those who are more hawkish and militaristic. Putin's problem now is that his propaganda wrote checks that his military can't make good. No matter how he tries to spin things, he's abandoned any attempt to take Kyiv, the Zelensky government remains in power, and that will be seen in Russia as weakness and failure. The article gives insight into how Russians react to such things, which doesn't portend a bright future for Putin. Maybe he'll survive by becoming even more repressive, who knows?
As noted above, the lecture was given in 2018. For the (retired) intel officer's current thoughts on the situation, here's his Twitter handle:
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/maraj60[/URL]
(Most tweets are in Finnish so you'll need to use your favorite translation method).[/QUOTE]This is the problem with our misguided regime change mindset. Most of these countries don't have the necessary traditions to have a functioning democracy. What you get after you destroy the government is a new one cut from the same cloth. Better to stay out of the mess.
[QUOTE=DickusMaximus;2682668]This is the problem with our misguided regime change mindset. Most of these countries don't have the necessary traditions to have a functioning democracy. What you get after you destroy the government is a new one cut from the same cloth. Better to stay out of the mess.[/QUOTE]There's certainly hope for real change, especially as more time passes. Younger Russian citizens are exposed to social media and function with a lot of western concepts and enjoyment of western culture. Polls regarding Putin's popularity aren't reliable so this is an unknown, though through oppressing the media and his opposition likely has majority support at the moment. We also don't know how many citizens want to speak out but are afraid to. There's other countries in the region that had little to no democratic history but are now functioning democracies. There's a good chance that a replacement for Putin would be a step in the right direction for Europe. We are currently experiencing more instability, genocidal acts and threats to democratic freedoms on the continent than we have since World War II. It's hard to fall out of bed when you're already sleeping on the floor. Plus there's a broader worldwide conflict between democracy and autocracy, with the cancer of the latter alive and well in Europe and the US. We ignore this at our peril.
P.S. As to current events, no we aren't going to "stay out of the mess" while a tyrant is murdering our friends. We will support Ukraine and punish Russia. Likewise we are unlikely to go head to head with Russia unless he touches a NATO country. In any case there's too many Neville Chamberlain's among us, especially in monger forums, for whatever reason. Putin has already stated his objective, to roll back NATO to pre-1997. Now is a time to project strength.
[QUOTE=DickusMaximus;2682668]This is the problem with our misguided regime change mindset. Most of these countries don't have the necessary traditions to have a functioning democracy. What you get after you destroy the government is a new one cut from the same cloth. Better to stay out of the mess.[/QUOTE]Except this one won't keep his murder within his own borders. Maybe the next one will have learned a lesson.
The current government is cleaning up the oligarch issue in Russia and also in Ukraine, where Clown President is the world's richest comedian, with over $1.3 billion in foreign banks.
Russia does not need American comments on its system of governance.
America does not support or export democracy. That is a self serving fallacy.
America has no values, let alone democratic values.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2682711]Except this one won't keep his murder within his own borders. Maybe the next one will have learned a lesson.[/QUOTE]Pretty much this. When the regime meddles with the affairs of other countries by, invading, starting a war and then murdering their civilians, it is not unreasonable to want it changed.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2682597]Reports are coming in a US general has been captured in Mariupol. Though I have the name, I doubt it is is him.
Either way, any Americans captured in Mariupol are not protected by the Geneva Convention.
There is some serious shit going on there.[/QUOTE]There is some serious shit going on in your head.
I had a team in Ukraine, most of them could not give a shit about politics, they were about reading their thesis, making money, going on with their lives. Holodomor was just a distant memory.
Now, they are supporters of Azov, and they ask me about the Blau Division, Spanish volunteers with the Wehrmacht.
These events have turned them into rabid Russian haters. This will not go off in 20 or 30 years. This will linger a long time.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2682256]No one with a lick of sense thinks that Ukraine was (or is) run by a bunch of saints. But, whatever corruptions and sins they may have committed, or are still committing, Putin has washed them clean by his own actions.
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that Ukraine was engaged in all the nasty and negative activities of which Russia and Putin and you have accused them. So what? Was Ukraine ever going to be able to threaten Russia militarily? Were Ukrainian tanks and missiles ever likely to reach Moscow, or any other Russian city? Was Ukraine ever likely to be allowed into NATO in the foreseeable future? The answer, for anyone who hasn't drunk their fill of Putin's poisonous propaganda, is an unequivocal no.
As long as Putin maintained the pre-Feb 24 status quo, he could have continued to argue his point of view and many in the West would have been sympathetic. But he threw all that away when he launched his disastrous MudKrieg. He singlehandedly turned a situation that had many shades of gray into one that is starkly black and white. He is now and forever the villain. And he will now and forever be branded a war criminal and a butcher of innocent civilians. It's already done, a fait accompli, and nothing you say or believe will ever change that fact.
Putin acolytes and sycophants (like you) will go to their graves thinking that Putin is the good guy. But 99% of the world has already found him guilty. There is no good outcome for him because, even if he manages to seize and hold parts of Ukraine, he's turned Russia into a pariah-state. And even formerly pro-Russia elements in Ukraine now hate his guts. The sanctions will continue, the brain-drain will continue, and China is sharpening their pencils for all the IOUs that will be coming due.
Whether you believe it or not, whether you like it or not, that's Russia's reality.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2682555]Hopefully, if not Siberia, the remains of these American, French, British, German and Israeli dogs will be paraded for the world to see what human filth looks like.[/QUOTE]Hmm Israeli dogs. That's an odd reference in a post about the Ukraine war. The NATO countries referenced makes sense. Israel though?
[QUOTE=Cons68;2682790]These events have turned them into rabid Russian haters. This will not go off in 20 or 30 years. This will linger a long time.[/QUOTE]Putin believed his own fantasy, further fed by the lies of his sycophants, that Ukraine wasn't really a nation, that they longed to be part of Russia again, and that the Russian army would be welcomed as liberators.
When that didn't happen he unleashed the kind of brutality one might expect from a rejected and jilted lover. A kind of "If I can't have you then I'm going to completely ruin you" sentiment. Even the formerly sympathetic areas in Eastern Ukraine will be impossible to effectively manage. Sure, Putin can station many troops in areas he manages to seize and hold, but those areas will never be a willing and productive part of Russia. Instead, they will continue to bleed Russia of manpower and resources while the vast majority of the world keeps sanctions in effect.
Putin will have turned Russia into a larger version of North Korea, a true pariah state. That assumes, of course, that he manages to stay in power after such a humiliating defeat and display of weakness. He raised expectations in Russia to an extremely high level such that the general belief was that Kyiv would be quickly conquered and the Zelensky government overthrown. Instead, Putin's army had to retreat from the Kyiv front in humiliating fashion and Zelensky remains in power. No matter how hard the Kremlin spin doctors try, Russian citizens recognize this as a defeat and a profound failure to achieve the desired objective. They may not be able to freely talk about it, but they surely understand what's happened. And that can't be good for Putin's future prospects.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2682959]Hmm Israeli dogs. That's an odd reference in a post about the Ukraine war. The NATO countries referenced makes sense. Israel though?[/QUOTE]It's always the same story with fascists. Blame the Jews.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2683029]It's always the same story with fascists. Blame the Jews.[/QUOTE]It's always the same story with Jews. Blame the fascists.
Oh, wait, except in Ukraine where the Jews are the fascists.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2682959]Hmm Israeli dogs. That's an odd reference in a post about the Ukraine war. The NATO countries referenced makes sense. Israel though?[/QUOTE]Not at all an odd reference in context of the Khazarian Homeland. Ample evidence and likely more forthcoming of the Ashkenazim insinuating themselves into this conflict.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2682726]The current government is cleaning up the oligarch issue in Russia and also in Ukraine, where Clown President is the world's richest comedian, with over $1.3 billion in foreign banks.
Russia does not need American comments on its system of governance.
America does not support or export democracy. That is a self serving fallacy.
America has no values, let alone democratic values.[/QUOTE]And sinking fast, because poor Putin and his pussilanimous posse of pipsqueaks have collectively pulled the plug!
Every passing day the tide turns further against Russia. They're in a constant state of loss: whether it be territory, or status, or support, etc. Even Kazakhstan is distancing itself, which is a shocker since Putin just bailed out the Kazakh leader not long ago. That's gratitude for you, eh?
Oh, and as I predicted, Finland is reportedly submitting their NATO application by April 14th. Which means Putin will have yet another member of NATO sitting on his border. And Poland is buying about $5 billion worth of US (Abrams) tanks and is offering to host NATO nukes.
Everywhere you look, assuming one isn't deluded enough to believe one's own propaganda, Putin is losing ground. Russia is totally fucked and has no future. When that reality dawns on the people, when it can't be hidden any longer and the curtain is pulled back, it's not going to be good for anyone in the Russian leadership, especially Putin.
Buh-bye, tovarisch!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2682605]Mikhail Prokhorov, former owner of the NBA's Brooklyn Nets, has fled to Israel and applied for Israeli citizenship.
Q: Why would a rich Russian oligarch abandon his home country?.[/QUOTE]Russian? His "home country"? LOL.
With his dual passport dusted off, this rat is going to his home country.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2683654]Russian? His "home country"? LOL.
With his dual passport dusted off, this rat is going to his home country.[/QUOTE]The Jpost article mentioned that he applied for citizenship upon arrival and his application was reviewed and approved under the "Right of Return" laws pertaining to Jews born outside Israel.
That puts him in a different category from Russian oligarchs who already had Israeli citizenship like, IIRC, Roman Abramovich. That's because someone with pre-existing dual-citizenship already had an escape door available, but Prokhorov abandoned Russia without having that in place.
So, while I'm sure he had people working behind the scenes to grease the skids, there was still some degree of risk that things could go wrong. So that brings me back to my original point, which is that the easiest path would have been to stay in Russia. As an oligarch he had all the privileges and advantages available to the elite.
So why take on the risk of leaving? Any amount of risk, large or small, is still greater than staying put. It's my guess that he looked at Russia's bleak future and decided it was worth the risk to jump ship when the opportunity presented itself.
The elites don't give a shit about what regular people do, but they watch each other like a hawk. With Chubais leaving, and now Prokhorov, others are probably asking themselves whether they should also head for the exits.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2683654]Russian? His "home country"? LOL.
With his dual passport dusted off, this rat is going to his home country.[/QUOTE]I get it. You hate Jews.
You lost last time.
You will lose again.
The rouble is strong, the Russian Army is strong and the rats remain in Mariupol where Russian and Chechen Special Forces have them by their balls.
If Poland and Finland wants World War Three, bring it on. As long as American cities are also repeatedly nuked.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2683605] Dumb American bs
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2683774].......So that brings me back to my original point, which is that the easiest path would have been to stay in Russia. As an oligarch he had all the privileges and advantages available to the elite.
So why take on the risk of leaving? Any amount of risk, large or small, is still greater than staying put. It's my guess that he looked at Russia's bleak future and decided it was worth the risk to jump ship when the opportunity presented itself.
The elites don't give a shit about what regular people do, but they watch each other like a hawk. With Chubais leaving, and now Prokhorov, others are probably asking themselves whether they should also head for the exits.[/QUOTE]I would put Chubais and Prokhorov in different categories. I sense Putin's tolerance for billionaire oligarchs is waning. It doesn't sound like Putin needs them anymore.
As a man who manipulated the system for his gain after the fall of the Soviet Union, I'm don't think Prokhorov deserves much of our consideration. Besides many of these oligarchs seem to have been more like globe-trotting world citizens than Russian citizens.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2683774]The Jpost article mentioned that he applied for citizenship upon arrival and his application was reviewed and approved under the "Right of Return" laws pertaining to Jews born outside Israel.
That puts him in a different category from Russian oligarchs who already had Israeli citizenship like, IIRC, Roman Abramovich. That's because [/QUOTE]Pre-existing. "Citizen" of the ethno-religious state by birthright.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2683880]I love licking Putin's bunghole![/QUOTE]The ruble is rubble. The exchange rate is meaningless when you consider: 1) The manipulation being practiced by the Russian Central bank, and; 2) The fact that sanctions drastically limit what Russia can buy.
[URL]https://www.dw.com/en/putin-tactics-drive-rebound-in-russian-ruble/a-61363334[/URL]
"It's effectively just artificially supporting the ruble while appearing to be forcing buyers in hostile countries into utilizing the ruble currency," Erlam said. "It's like the measures that have been imposed on Gazprombank and others already in terms of forcing them to convert 80% of their currency payments into rubles. This further supports those types of desperate measures".
"Ruble trading volumes have dried up due to sanctions and many brokers and speculators remain wary of dealing in the currency. This means that the ruble's current market price is being determined by far fewer transactions than usual".
Also, probably the most competent govt apparatchik is the Central Bank governor, Elvira Nabiullina. So what does it say about the Russian economic situation that she wants to resign but Putin won't let her? If she had the same resources as Chubais and Prokhorov, I'm guessing she'd already be gone.
[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/russias-top-central-banker-step-down-ukraine-war-putin-2022-3[/URL]
"state of hopelessness" taking root among Russian central bank employees who fear being cut off from the outside world".
About Putin's paper-tiger army, every analyst who isn't a pro-Russia shill (like you) recognizes that they suffered a humiliating defeat in their attempt to seize Kyiv. They retreated so rapidly they had to abandon any equipment that might slow them down. Any "after the fact" explanation that they weren't serious about taking Kyiv is transparent and laughable bullshit.
I have no idea how the battle for the East and South will turn out, but Putin has already lost because the Zelensky govt is still in place and, after raising expectations about conquering (and denazifying) ALL of Ukraine, he couldn't deliver. So now he's desperately trying to find something, ANYTHING, he can spin as a victory. And he'll need to figure out what how to explain to tens of thousands of Russian widows, orphans, and bereaved parents, that the deaths of their loved ones was worth it. For what, the Donbass (assuming Putin can even pull that off)? Give me a fucking break!
Oh, and about his constant WW-III threats, his conventional forces are a total joke, so all he can do is wave the nuke banner. Even assuming he's insane and suicidal, I've read a few articles about the layers of military bureaucracy that would be involved. So it's equally likely that someone in the chain would say "nyet" just like some of Russia's front-line soldiers have already terminated their own officers.
Putin has completely miscalculated and followed that miscalculation with abject failure. As a result he's united the West beyond anyone's wildest imagination. Poland, the Baltics, and soon very likely Finland and Sweden will be NATO gatekeepers on his doorstep. And Russia's future is already circling the drain. The big question now is whether anyone is able to deliver a Stalinesque retirement to Putin before the country turns into a clone of North Korea.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2683969]Pre-existing. "Citizen" of the ethno-religious state by birthright.[/QUOTE]I don't know what your problems with Jews are, and I frankly couldn't care less.
What I do care about is being factually accurate. If someone is a citizen (sole or dual), that's a factual statement of legal status. And that legal status entitles them to carry the passport of their country (ies) of citizenship.
As a factual matter, Prokhorov was NOT a citizen of Israel until he 1) Arrived; 2) Applied; 3) Had his application approved.
At any point in that process, Israel retained the right to decline approval. Although declination was unlikely, there is still a case-by-case review and certification that needs to happen. Until ALL the requirements were met, and approval granted, Prokhorov was not an Israeli citizen.
Those are the plain facts, whether you choose to accept them or not, that's entirely up to you.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2683944]I would put Chubais and Prokhorov in different categories. I sense Putin's tolerance for billionaire oligarchs is waning. It doesn't sound like Putin needs them anymore.
As a man who manipulated the system for his gain after the fall of the Soviet Union, I'm don't think Prokhorov deserves much of our consideration. Besides many of these oligarchs seem to have been more like globe-trotting world citizens than Russian citizens.[/QUOTE]There are undoubtedly many differences between Chubais and Prokhorov. My main reason for discussing them is because they provide a window into what might be going on in elite circles. I agree that Putin probably needs oligarchs less than they need him, but that doesn't mean they don't (some of them, at least) still have a level of influence and power. If, for example, Putin were to be ousted, it's likely someone from elite circles would replace him.
To my mind there are roughly three types of oligarchs. First, those who are already locked into Russia by existing sanctions. That group, as least publicly, are more likely to double down in their support of Putin because their fates are linked with his. They don't have any easy exit route. Second, those who already lived abroad some or most of the time, perhaps with dual-citizenship status. One notable example is Roman Abramovich who, even though (IIRC) he's subject to some sanctions, still had a relatively easy exit route. Third, those who are in between, like Prokhorov. He had money and status enough to allow him to ride out the storm in Russia, but chose to leave and needed to create an exit strategy to do so.
It's that third group that interests me most. How many more will abandon ship and how will that affect the mindset of other elites?
Interesting times! Stay tuned.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684108]As a factual matter, Prokhorov was NOT a citizen of Israel until he 1) Arrived; 2) Applied; 3) Had his application approved.
At any point in that process, Israel retained the right to decline approval. Although declination was unlikely, there is still a case-by-case review and certification that needs to happen. Until ALL the requirements were met, and approval granted, Prokhorov was not an Israeli citi.[/QUOTE]Show up, announce you want citizenship and voila -- "approved!" Just like it works everywhere else in the world. And for all other peoples.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2680565][URL]https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/russia-facing-internet-outages-due-to-equipment-shortage/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.securitylab.ru/news/530708.php[/URL] (article is in Russian but will automatically translate if using Chrome browser).
[URL]https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/70000-russian-it-professionals-have-left-the-country-another-100000-could-leave-in-a-month/[/URL]
Notice that the reported numbers (170,000 estimated) come from Russian sources. And, even though those sources are trying to put a positive spin on things (it's only temporary), you can read between the lines and see the desperation.
[/QUOTE]I saw a quote of 700,000 people from a reliable source today (Mark Feygin, a human rights activist) with some sources putting it over 1 million. In any case, this number can only be compared with the exodus after the 1917 revolution.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684104]The ruble is rubble. The exchange rate is meaningless when you consider: 1) The manipulation being practiced by the Russian Central bank, and; 2) The fact that sanctions drastically limit what Russia can buy.
[/QUOTE]Yep. A friend in Russia laughed at me when I asked if he could buy dollars at the official rate. He can't, it's all for a show. You can only get cash if you had a dollar account at a Russian bank before March 9, and there are still lots of restrictions. Buying black market can get you a rate over 130 to $ (and up to 7 years of hard labor if you get caught).
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684108]I don't know what your problems with Jews are.[/QUOTE]I can help you with that, since I've had a displeasure of reading Golhinho's takes on Jews before. He's simply a rabid anti-Semite. Easy-peasy.
Once I saw you had posted, I thought: here comes a shit fest.
First off, I see NATO is pouring into Quislingstan ie Norway. The bottom line is: if NATO cross a line, we have nuclear war which would be less of a bad thing if the USA is a direct target.
Now on to the shit fest.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2684193] I saw a quote of 700,000 people from a reliable source today (Mark Feygin, a human rights activist) with some sources putting it over 1 million. In any case, this number can only be compared with the exodus after the 1917 revolution.[/QUOTE]Ukrainians are pouring out in very large part because Ukraine is piss poor. The evidence for that is in its surrogate babies, its fake medical degree mills, its orgn a harvesting and in prior threads here. It is / was the second poorest country in Europe.
The big exodus was at the start of the 20th century when Jews poured out of the Pale in the millions.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2684193]Yep. A friend in Russia laughed at me when I asked if he could buy dollars at the official rate. He can't, it's all for a show. You can only get cash if you had a dollar account at a Russian bank before March 9, and there are still lots of restrictions. Buying black market can get you a rate over 130 to $ (and up to 7 years of hard labor if you get caught).
[/QUOTE]The rouble is tied to the price of gold. It is higher now than it was before Russia took on the Nazis. That is why the USA, the enemy of humanity, is trying to do regime changer in Pakistan and up to similar games in China. This time, it won't work and Americans wil answer for it.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2684193]I can help you with that, since I've had a displeasure of reading Golhinho's takes on Jews before. He's simply a rabid anti-Semite. Easy-peasy.[/QUOTE]Israel and Jews both have a special role in this. That is simply a fact.
Zelensky, the Jew, is the world's richest comedian, worth over $1.3 billion. He didn't do that by royalties from his transvestite dancing shows.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2683880]The rouble is strong[/QUOTE]You should show us all what idiots we are. Convert all your liquidity to RUB and show all of us cowards that you are a man of principle. You believe what you are saying, so of course there is no downside to having your life savings denominated in the strong currency that is RUB.
Escape the tyranny of other currencies, convert everything to RUB and stand for what you believe in.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2684193]Yep. A friend in Russia laughed at me when I asked if he could buy dollars at the official rate. He can't, it's all for a show. You can only get cash if you had a dollar account at a Russian bank before March 9, and there are still lots of restrictions. Buying black market can get you a rate over 130 to $ (and up to 7 years of hard labor if you get caught).[/QUOTE]A Central Bank can do a lot of things if they want to maintain the facade that the currency is stronger than it is. Almost all hurt the economy, but artificially prop up the currency.
Per the Deutsche Welle article Jmsuttr posted below, "The bank more than doubled the country's key interest rate to 20%, restricted local firms' access to foreign currency, and set limits on withdrawals in foreign currency. It also took measures to keep dollars from fleeing abroad, including by banning foreign investors from dumping Russian stocks and bonds."
You are stupid. You are American. Do you understand. Simple - English-?
They are facts.
The rouble is strong, stronger than it was when Russia began stemming the Nazis? Follow so far?
They are facts. They have nothing to do where I hold my money. I am divested of all US $ as I have no need of them.
Nor do I currently have a need of roubles or most currencies listed here. [URL]https://www.xe.com/[/URL].
Just how stupid are you? Have you even learned basic hygiene and not to eat too many hamburgers and drink too much of that awful American beer?
There are threads here slamming American women. Maybe, in rejecting male American libtards, they have a point.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2684262]You should show us all what idiots we are. Convert all your liquidity to RUB and show all of us cowards that you are a man of principle. You believe what you are saying, so of course there is no downside to having your life savings denominated in the strong currency that is RUB.
Escape the tyranny of other currencies, convert everything to RUB and stand for what you believe in.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=VinDici;2684262]You should show us all what idiots we are. Convert all your liquidity to RUB and show all of us cowards that you are a man of principle. You believe what you are saying, so of course there is no downside to having your life savings denominated in the strong currency that is RUB.
Escape the tyranny of other currencies, convert everything to RUB and stand for what you believe in.[/QUOTE]Yeah. Spend next winter sweatered in your apartment in the Nato States and show us what a man of principal you are, shivering for what you believe in.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684108]As a factual matter, Prokhorov was NOT a citizen of Israel until he 1) Arrived; 2) Applied; 3) Had his application approved.
At any point in that process, Israel retained the right to decline approval. Although declination was unlikely, there is still a case-by-case review and certification that needs to happen. Until ALL the requirements
Those are the plain facts, whether you choose to accept them or not, that's entirely up to you.[/QUOTE]Shows up, "applies", and "case by case review" wouldn't you know it -- approved! Just like how it works in every other country in the world, that is every other ethno-religious state that recognizes -- requires! -- citizenship by birthright.
Plain facts.
[QUOTE=MedroPorales;2684311]They are facts. They have nothing to do where I hold my money. I am divested of all US $ as I have no need of them.
Nor do I currently have a need of roubles or most currencies listed here. [URL]https://www.xe.com/[/URL].[/QUOTE]So you won't put your money where your mouth is. I guess we know who the real coward is.
[QUOTE=Golfinho-theAnti-Semite;2684319]Yeah. Spend next winter sweatered in your apartment in the Nato States and show us what a man of principal you are, shivering for what you believe in.[/QUOTE]I have no plans on moving from my abode, so yes I will be a man of principle. Perhaps you should also convert all your liquidity to RUB and show us that you can stand for what you believe in, or are you as cowardly as Medro?
[QUOTE=VinDici;2684421]I have no plans on moving from my abode, so yes I will be a man of principle. Perhaps you should also convert all your liquidity to RUB and show us that you can stand for what you believe in, or are you as cowardly as Medro?[/QUOTE]There you go. Make the Europeans suffer while in the USA (or in the land formerly known as Palestine) you can be securely domiciled. That's real courageous of you, you man of principle you.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684117]Show up, announce you want citizenship and voila -- "approved!" Just like it works everywhere else in the world. And for all other peoples.[/QUOTE]You appear to have a very strained relationship with actual facts.
Fact #1: There are millions of people around the world who might qualify for Israeli citizenship under current Israeli law.
Fact #2: NONE (as in zero, zip, nada) of those eligible people are currently Israeli citizens. They don't have Israeli passports, they can't vote in Israeli elections, they can't exercise ANY of the rights that pertain exclusively to Israeli citizens.
Fact #3: These two groups, existing citizens and those who are prospectively eligible for citizenship, are completely separate and discrete. Non-citizens are, by definition, not citizens. That would seem to be obvious and self-evident, but apparently that truth appears to be lost on you.
BTW, there are a number of countries that allow citizenship by virtue of heritage, so that's not unique to Israel. Israel chooses to define heritage along religious lines, which is understandable in that they see themselves as a refuge and homeland for Jews. I'm not Jewish, but I have no problem with any country making their own decisions about eligibility for citizenship.
[URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/joesills/2020/09/30/these-countries-will-grant-you-citizenship-based-on-your-ancestry/amp/[/URL]
Also, there are plenty of countries for which you can buy your citizenship. Are those rules ok with you? No connection at all with the country is required, not birth, not heritage, not religious connection, nothing except having lots of cash.
[URL]https://www.fodors.com/news/deals/how-to-buy-citizenship-around-the-world[/URL]
Are you similarly outraged at all of these programs and the people who take advantage of them? Or is Israel your sole focus? That last question is actually rhetorical as I think I already know the answer.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2684311]The rouble is strong, stronger than it was when Russia began stemming the Nazis? Follow so far?
They are facts.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.reuters.com/business/finance/russias-rouble-rebound-not-quite-what-it-seems-2022-04-08/[/URL]
*"all is not what it seems and the exchange rate used in everyday transactions is sometimes very different to the official one".
*"anyone who tries to buy foreign currency online at a bank or, illegally, at a foreign exchange booth, or who buys goods and services online denominated in foreign currencies will find the actual rate considerably worse".
*"defending the rouble, never mind the real economy, makes sense as a propaganda strategy".
*"demand for FX was artificially suppressed. Russia banned cash purchases of dollars and euros, introduced a 12% commission on buying foreign currency online, and set the maximum amount that an individual could withdraw from their bank account at $10,000 until Sept. 9."
*"Within a short walking distance of the Kremlin, an exchange office behind an unmarked door offered to sell cash dollars for 93 roubles and euros for 103 roubles on Thursday."
Quite a difference between the official version and how things actually operate in the real world! And that's not even factoring inflation into the mix.
*"I used to buy cans of Dutch-made baby formula for 2,500 roubles before Feb. 24," said Marina, a Moscow resident, with her newborn baby. "Now the same can costs 4,500 roubles."
*"Since Feb. 24, food prices have soared, taking the year-to-date increase in prices for cabbage and carrots to 85% and 54%, respectively, according to statistics service Rosstat. Prices of imported goods jumped even higher, with prices for some foreign-made cars more than doubling."
I wonder how long it will take before the average Russian starts going under as a result of these economic conditions? I suspect it might be sooner than you think.
*"A survey by state polling agency VTsIOM from February showed that 64% of people in Russia had no savings".
As I said, the ruble is rubble and Russia is flushing itself down the toilet. Follow so far?
[QUOTE=VinDici;2684421]So you won't put your money where your mouth is. I guess we know who the real coward is.
I have no plans on moving from my abode, so yes I will be a man of principle. Perhaps you should also convert all your liquidity to RUB and show us that you can stand for what you believe in, or are you as cowardly as Medro?[/QUOTE]I put my money where my mouth is, you American moron. People who know me know I am no coward, quite the opposite. You, on the other hand, are an American, and a guy on a hookers; forum proffering financial advice.
Guess what. I give away 100% of what I earn, all of it.
You are the type of fat, ugly American who threatens America you will leave if your side loses one of your fake elections.
I see The Russians blew up another couple of hundred million dollars of your weapons that cxame v ia the posatage stamp country of Slovenia.
Americans, fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian. With your regime change be s in Pakistan, you have started bombing Afghanistan again, but it might not work as million s of Pakistanis are out on the streets.
Solomon Islands: China advances. Take your McDonalds, your Coca Cola and your KFC and fuck off back to America. I would say Hollywood too only that is gone down the tube. Two wankers slapping each other. Two comedians who have nowhere near the wealth Zelensky has.
Zelensky will win a Nobel Peace Prize, like that mas murderer Zelensky got.
You want cowards? Here are American cowardly scum walking through Hanoi. They deserved to be skinned alive for their crimes. These animals included John McCain who cried like a dog when captured and never even thanking the Vietnamese farmer who saved his life.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684440]You appear to have a very strained relationship with actual ound the world who
of those pertain exclusively to g citizens and those who are prospectively eligible for citizenship, are completely are a number of countries that allow citizenship by virtue of heritage, so that's not unique to Israel. Israel chooses to define heritage along religious lines, which is understandable in that they see there are plenty of countries for which you can buy .[/QUOTE]But, of course. The man who could have chosen to "buy citizenship" anywhere, chooses a little ethno-apartheid settler colonial state that is always crying it is in such mortal peril and needs billions of American taxpayer money to survive. Clearly the logical choice for an oligarchic billionaire seeking expedited service, and wealth-sheltering, especially if he wants a place from where he can't get extradited.
Glad to help you understand how things really work.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684481]But, of course. The man who could have chosen to "buy citizenship" anywhere, chooses a little ethno-apartheid settler colonial state that is always crying it is in such mortal peril and needs billions of American taxpayer money to survive. Clearly the logical choice for an oligarchic billionaire seeking expedited service, and wealth-sheltering, especially if he wants a place from where he can't get extradited.
Glad to help you understand how things really work.[/QUOTE]I don't give a rat's ass about how you think things work. Subjective opinions and biases are tiresome and nearly always lacking in intellectual rigor.
What I care about are empirically verifiable facts. And one empirically verifiable fact, which your biases render you incapable of recognizing, or drive you toward incoherent obfuscation of, is that a non-citizen is categorically not a citizen until they are granted that legal status by the authority empowered to do so.
That's true in Israel and every other country on the face of the planet. It's quite ludicrous to watch your gyrations as you try to ignore or deny the simple, observable, and verifiable, fact that Prokhorov was not an Israeli citizen when he arrived there. All your BS is nothing more than your own projections looking for any nook and cranny into which you can jam your anti-Semitic screeds. And all the pseudo-points you try to make have one thing in common: they're completely tangential and irrelevant to the simple facts I've laid out.
It's quite an illuminating study into the mental contortions someone's biases can cause them to have. I'm happy to have been the instrument of drawing them out for others to witness. Please feel free to continue your mental masturbatory exercises, I'm sure you won't let something as basic as evidence and facts dissuade you. It'll be fun to see what you come up with next. It's rather like an anti-Jew game of Twister, don't you think? I wonder what will your sad little internal spinner will command you to do next? Right hand, Yellow! Left foot, Blue!
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2684465]I put my money where my mouth is, you American moron. People who know me know I am no coward, quite the opposite. You, on the other hand, are an American, and a guy on a hookers; forum proffering financial advice.
Guess what. I give away 100% of what I earn, all of it.
You are the type of fat, ugly American who threatens America you will leave if your side loses one of your fake elections.
I see The Russians blew up another couple of hundred million dollars of your weapons that cxame v ia the posatage stamp country of Slovenia.
Americans, fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian. With your regime change be s in Pakistan, you have started bombing Afghanistan again, but it might not work as million s of Pakistanis are out on the streets..[/QUOTE]How do you eat? And who pays for the phone or computer on which you write your hysterical posts? Even if you're surviving on McDonald's, KFC, and Coca Cola in the Solomon Islands, that shit ain't free. Of course, if you're living in locked down Shanghai that would explain some of it. I see that people there are saying they're starving. Not sure how such a thing could happen in "advanced" China.
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1512974880463114241[/URL]
Does Comrade Putin send you regular shipments of military rations for your sustenance in exchange for your support? And do those shipments also include military uniforms? Or maybe KGB-style poorly-made and ill-fitting suits?
You really should start a blog on the topic of how to live while giving away 100% of your earnings. I'm sure it'd be very popular, and then you'd have even more earnings you could 100% give away. It's really a win-win when you think of it.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2684465]I put my money where my mouth is, you American moron. People who know me know I am no coward, quite the opposite. You, on the other hand, are an American, and a guy on a hookers; forum proffering financial advice.
Guess what. I give away 100% of what I earn, all of it.
You are the type of fat, ugly American who threatens America you will leave if your side loses one of your fake elections.
I see The Russians blew up another couple of hundred million dollars of your weapons that cxame v ia the posatage stamp country of Slovenia.
Americans, fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian. With your regime change be s in Pakistan, you have started bombing Afghanistan again, but it might not work as million s of Pakistanis are out on the streets.
Solomon Islands: China advances. Take your McDonalds, your Coca Cola and your KFC and fuck off back to America. I would say Hollywood too only that is gone down the tube. Two wankers slapping each other. Two comedians who have nowhere near the wealth Zelensky has..[/QUOTE]Pedro, can you disclose a little bit about yourself? Like approximate age, citizenship. I am just trying to get an idea where ideas like yours are popular.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684464]*"A survey by state polling agency VTsIOM from February showed that 64% of people in Russia had no savings".
As I said, the ruble is rubble and Russia is flushing itself down the toilet. Follow so far?[/QUOTE]You are using Reuters, a US echo chamber.
Russians use roubles. The forex rate on the street does not matter. Use $, pay a premium. The rouble is tied to gold, not to the $, which will hopefully collapse as it free lunches end.
Russians have no savings? Quite like the Americans so.
Baby food, which I accidentally deleted, is a problem and it is one I am marginally involved in. However, that is precisely who Americans murder with their sanctions.
Putin has the highest approval rating of any Russian leader. Many, I am sure, would like him to step up the special operation in Ukraine where they arguably should have gone in like the Yanks, blowing up water, sewage, electric and then doing mopping up operations.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684559]I don't give a
What I care about are empirically verifiable facts. And one empirically verifiable fact, which your biases render you incapable of recognizing, or hat's and every other country on the face of the planet. It's quite observable, and verifiable, fact that Prokhorov was not an Israeli citizen when he arrived there. All your
It's quite an illuminating study I wonder what will your sad little internal spinner will command you to do next? [/QUOTE]You are much too illuminating with your intellectual rigor mortis. Don't let your sad little internal sphincter hold you back.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684714]You are much too illuminating with your intellectual rigor mortis. Don't let your sad little internal sphincter hold you back.[/QUOTE]And the only dysfunctional sphincter in this forum is the one between your ears. Speaking of illuminating, you and Pedro M should get together IRL. Think about it, pro-Russia shill meets anti-Semite troll. With the bias-meter redlined, it would most likely result in spontaneous combustion. If you livestreamed it I think people would definitely pay money to watch. In dollars, rubles, or shekels, take your pick.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684464]*"defending the rouble, never mind the real economy, makes sense as a propaganda strategy".[/QUOTE]That's all it is. A propaganda strategy It will only harm the Russian economy even more.
It's hubris to think artificially propping up the Ruble is an act of strength. Historically, countries with weak currencies that attempted to prop it up by limiting free exchange and implementing monetary controls have harmed the economy beyond what fragility already existed.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2684619]You are using Reuters, a US echo chamber.
Russians use roubles. The forex rate on the street does not matter. Use $, pay a premium. The rouble is tied to gold, not to the $, which will hopefully collapse as it free lunches end.
Russians have no savings? Quite like the Americans so.
Baby food, which I accidentally deleted, is a problem and it is one I am marginally involved in. However, that is precisely who Americans murder with their sanctions.
Putin has the highest approval rating of any Russian leader. Many, I am sure, would like him to step up the special operation in Ukraine where they arguably should have gone in like the Yanks, blowing up water, sewage, electric and then doing mopping up operations.[/QUOTE]The main reason I linked to the Reuters article was because they specifically referenced a Russian source for the point about savings. If you don't like Reuters, I'm guessing there are other outlets that might quote the same source. It's noteworthy that you can't refute the data itself, so you once again rely on ad hominem.
If Forex doesn't matter, then any comments you make about the supposed strength of the ruble also don't matter. Forex only matters to Russians trying to buy foreign goods or otherwise transact in foreign currencies.
For Russians who exclusively use the ruble domestically, the biggest problem is the rampant inflation and the fact that some goods aren't available at any price. Putin could end most or all of the sanctions tomorrow by ending his war on Ukraine and withdrawing to the pre-Feb 24th positions.
Of course there's no way he'd do that, because a strongman leader can't ever show weakness or admit defeat. So, while it's clear he has lost when it comes to the primary objective of taking Kyiv and removing Zelensky, it wouldn't surprise me if he escalated by taking some aggressive action against Poland, the Baltics, Moldova, etc. And I wouldn't put it past him to use a false-flag attack on Russia as a pretext.
I have no idea how the next few weeks or months of the war will go. But it's clear that Russia's position weakens with every passing day. There is no independent metric you can cite that shows things getting better for Putin. And, as I've posted several times, there are no good outcomes for Russia. If they lose, it's a catastrophic result for the Russian psyche and Putin will be blamed. If they achieve some level of territorial gain in Ukraine, they'll struggle to hold it and Russia will remain a pariah-state. They already had a demographic problem which will only be exacerbated by a continued outflow of young people who recognize they have no future in Russia.
How did things get to this point? Putin, Putin, Putin!
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2684739]That's all it is. A propaganda strategy It will only harm the Russian economy even more.
It's hubris to think artificially propping up the Ruble is an act of strength. Historically, countries with weak currencies that attempted to prop it up by limiting free exchange and implementing monetary controls have harmed the economy beyond what fragility already existed.[/QUOTE]In futile partnership with a Potemkin economy that's been hollowed out by systemic kleptocracy. And the armed forces are in the same leaky boat.
As time goes on, and stresses increase, we'll see to how many other things the Potemkin label applies.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2684739]That's all it is. A propaganda strategy.
It's hubris to think artificially propping up the Ruble is an act of strength. Historically, countries with weak currencies that attempted to prop it up by limiting free exchange and implementing monetary controls have harmed the economy beyond what fragility already existed.[/QUOTE]It's too soon to tell how this will play out. The Russians have pegged the ruble to gold. They will accept only rubles for their oil and gas -- so far. Whether they extend this to accept only rubles for all their exports and move to make their ruble an asset backed currency remains to be seen. When Quaddafi made a similar move, the USA Had no answer in response except to take him out. Libya, of course, had no nuclear arsenal.
The USA Meanwhile has been shorting gold for years, and has a currency backed by -- nothing. Well, backed by its military and its ability to control the oil market via the petro dollar. For how much longer is this strategy sustainable? Remains to be seen, however it is pure hubris to think artificially propping up the dollar is an act of strength. For all holding dollars, the people running USA Policy seem to realize this which is why they're willing to keep increasing the stakes -- from Iran, Iraq / Syria, Venezuela, Libya, and now finally it has come to Russia. Should we hope the USA Succeeds and realizes the Hitlerian dream to control Russia's resources? Well, as long as you have the USA Passport and USA Currency and like to spend it like a little king lording it over poor, foreign girls you have to hope the American policy of brinksmanship pays off.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684748]In futile partnership with a Potemkin economy that's been hollowed out by systemic kleptocracy. And the armed forces are in the same leaky boat.
As time goes on, and stresses increase, we'll see to how many other things the Potemkin label applies.[/QUOTE]An other thing to which the Potemkin label applies: the USA Economy.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684852]It's too soon to tell how this will play out. The Russians have pegged the ruble to gold. They will accept only rubles for their oil and gas -- so far. Whether they extend this to accept only rubles for all their exports and move to make their ruble an asset backed currency remains to be seen. When Quaddafi made a similar move, the USA Had no answer in response except to take him out. Libya, of course, had no nuclear arsenal.
The USA Meanwhile has been shorting gold for years, and has a currency backed by -- nothing. Well, backed by its military and its ability to control the oil market via the petro dollar. For how much longer is this strategy sustainable? Remains to be seen, however it is pure hubris to think artificially propping up the dollar is an act of strength. For all holding dollars, the people running USA Policy seem to realize this which is why they're willing to keep increasing the stakes -- from Iran, Iraq / Syria, Venezuela, Libya, and now finally it has come to Russia. Should we hope the USA Succeeds and realizes the Hitlerian dream to control Russia's resources? Well, as long as you have the USA Passport and USA Currency and like to spend it like a little king lording it over poor, foreign girls you have to hope the American policy of brinksmanship pays off.[/QUOTE][URL]https://hungarytoday.hu/dispute-between-eu-and-hungary-over-payment-to-russia-in-rubles/[/URL]
Not sure how China and India are paying, but it doesn't seem like it's happening anywhere in Europe. That could certainly change but it's premature to assume it's already a done deal or will definitely happen on a broad scale. Putin can demand rubles but he also needs income, so it might come down to who blinks first. And it's worth noting that, as the weather warms, Europe's energy needs should be less. Not sure how much impact that has on total demand, but the depths of winter have passed.
About the ruble being pegged to gold, I agree that it's too soon to tell as it's a new development that only happened after Putin invaded Ukraine. When the value of the ruble plummeted it was one of the measures Russia adopted to try to stabilize the currency. Whether it will be effective over the medium to long term remains to be seen. Here's one article that discusses some of the issues, including potential downsides:
[URL]https://theconversation.com/why-russia-has-put-the-rouble-on-a-gold-standard-but-its-unlikely-to-last-180632[/URL]
About the dollar, I'm certainly not a general defender of US monetary or economic policies (although I'm not an indiscriminate basher of same), but the relevant question with respect to dollar dominance is what currency (ies) are realistic candidates to replace it? Any such currency would need to be backed by a country willing to endure the Reserve Currency Paradox (aka Triffin's Dilemma).
[URL]https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1011/how-the-triffin-dilemma-affects-currencies.aspx[/URL]
According to that concept, a reserve currency's issuing country needs to accept a permanent trade deficit condition. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of any sizeable world economy, other than the US, that perennially runs a trade deficit. So, while it's always in fashion to bash the dollar, it's hard to see what will move the needle in any substantial way.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684854]An other thing to which the Potemkin label applies: the USA Economy.[/QUOTE]As I noted in my other post, I'm neither an indiscriminate supporter or basher of US economic and monetary policy. But I would note that, with all the demographic challenges around the world (declining birth rates, aging populations, etc.), the US still tends to attract more immigrants than many countries, which should have a generally positive effect on growth going forward. Obviously there are many countries in Africa and Asia with robust birth rates, but they tend to be poorer and less developed. That's not a defense of any specific US policy but rather a broad observation that the tide is still moving in a growth-positive direction.
[URL]https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/04/answering-call-heavy-weaponry-supplied.html?m=1[/URL]
Obviously there will be a lot of things happening behind the scenes, and not announced publicly, but this site aims to keep track of everything it can and keep the list updated as new info comes in. For those still present in Ukraine, or anyone interested in this kind of war-related info, this would be a good site to bookmark. And it should also show which countries are keeping their commitments and which are just mouthing empty promises.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684916][URL]https://hungarytoday.hu/dispute-between-eu-and-hungary-over-payment-to-russia-in-rubles/[/URL]
Not sure how China and India are paying, but it doesn't seem like it's happening anywhere in Europe. That could certainly change but it's premature to assume it's already a done deal or will definitely happen on a broad scale. Putin can demand rubles but he also needs income,
About the ruble being pegged to gold, I agree that it's too soon to tell as it's a new development that only happened after Putin invaded Ukraine. When the value of the ruble plummeted it was one of the
About the dollar, I'm certainly not a general defender of US monetary or economic policies (although I'm not an indiscriminate basher of same), but the relevant question with respect to dollar dominance is what currency (ies) are realistic candidates to replace it? Any such currency would need to be backed by a country willing to endure the Reserve Currency.[/QUOTE]The stock answer in context of the future of the dollar for years has been, 'Yes, long-term it's all bad, but there's no place else to go. ' Anyone who's spent anytime in the industry knows this. And now we've reached the point where it's the linchpin openly behind US foreign policy. Question is will this battle with Russia lead to the endgame.
How it came to this should be general knowledge. See Michael Hudson, Super Imperialism (updated from your edition back in undergraduate economics).
Or his take on current situation: [URL]https://michael-hudson.com/category/articles/[/URL].
Of course Putin needs income, which is why he's not giving oil to belligerents that have frozen Russia's accounts. Sanctions have blowback -- in this case so obvious it can only be assumed to have been intentional to, as like the Nuland woman said, eff the E. You. Meanwhile, China will buy Russian oil and gas and pay in yuan which won't be frozen (stolen). The US confiscated Venezuela's foreign holdings, and they even stole poor Afghanistan's. And now Russia's. What kind of a message does that send to anyone who noticed?
US balance of payments, or trade deficit is the underlying situation-issue-problem that's being exposed. The outcome of the present war determines whether there'll a new world economic order.
It's here in the Title [URL]https://www.politico.com/newsletters/global-insider/2022/04/11/yes-russia-is-still-winning-00024373[/URL].
Whizzing through sources, the above caught my attention and read it more than once.
;If you think Russia isn't winning from its invasion of Ukraine, consider this: Moscow's monthly gas export receipts have tripled from a year ago; Marine LE Pen leads a Russian-sympathizing political bloc that is within reach of the French presidency; and from today, Western leaders will once again start arriving in Moscow to court President Vladimir Putin into a Ukraine settlement.
In other words: You can win even when you're being humiliated on the battlefield.
On the European front, Putin's supporters win elections in Hungary & Serbia [URL]https://edition.cnn.com[/URL] europe h.
Pro-Putin leaders win two elections in Europe, reminding the Kremlin it has friends in high places. CNN.
[URL]https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/04/europe/hungary-serbia-elections-putin-friends-analysis-intl-cmd/index.html[/URL]
But its not all Win, Win for Putin [URL]https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/finland-sweden-set-to-join-nato-war-ukraine-latest-7m8bn6mf8[/URL].
He wins some and loses some!
[QUOTE=Tumeric1;2684601]Pedro, can you disclose a little bit about yourself? Like approximate age, citizenship. I am just trying to get an idea where ideas like yours are popular.[/QUOTE]That's a good question. Pedro, your ideas and words don't sound like a Latin to me.
It might seem like a personal question. Some of us are quite open about our backgrounds. I can also often tell when I am conversing with an American or a European based on their references and their use of written English.
I think most would agree people's backgrounds and life experiences affect the way they look at the world.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684852]Well, as long as you have the USA Passport and USA Currency and like to spend it like a little king lording it over poor, foreign girls........[/QUOTE]Then WTF are you doing on this website? It's one thing to post your pro-Russia political thoughts, but you are trolling American men who travel abroad to meet foreign women on here the International Sex Guide of all places.
Pull your head out of your ass and look around at where you are.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2685132]Then WTF are you doing on this website? It's one thing to post your pro-Russia political thoughts, but you are trolling American men who travel abroad to meet foreign women on here the International Sex Guide of all places.
Pull your head out of your ass and look around at where you are.[/QUOTE]Got your panties in a twist? Keep it real and get some self-awareness. As much as we enjoy our currency's buying power, it wouldn't be worth going anywhere if The Empire of Lies spread its globohomo corruptions to Russian girls and to the remaining fun spots of the world.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684852]It's too soon to tell how this will play out. The Russians have pegged the ruble to gold. They will accept only rubles for their oil and gas -- so far. Whether they extend this to accept only rubles for all their exports and move to make their ruble an asset backed currency remains to be seen. When Quaddafi made a similar move, the USA Had no answer in response except to take him out. Libya, of course, had no nuclear arsenal.
The USA Meanwhile has been shorting gold for years, and has a currency backed by -- nothing. Well, backed by its military and its ability to control the oil market via the petro dollar. For how much longer is this strategy sustainable? Remains to be seen, however it is pure hubris to think artificially propping up the dollar is an act of strength.[/QUOTE]This is actually a fairly good take, but only half the story. I've heard some of this with young tech guys who trade and hold crypto. Basically, their prognosis is that the Mideast oil producers will eventually refuse the Dollar as payment and cryptocurrency will be validated as a major global currency.
It misses the bigger issue. How do chronic trade surpluses eventually wind their way through the global economy and converted into reserve assets? The medium of exchange is not really important from an economic perspective. Whether one talks about paying in Gold or Bitcoin, some exporter has to inevitably circulate the Dollars, Euro, Yen, Renminbi back into their respective countries. If Saudi Arabia only accepts Bitcoin, a USA Petro enterprise has to buy Bitcoin to buy Saudi oil. Even if the Saudis choose to hold Bitcoin, the party selling Bitcoin has to direct their Dollars. So Dollars must keep circulating in the global economy until they find their way back into imports from the United States, assets domiciled in the United States or Treasuries.
China and the Mideast oil producers tend to accumulate United States assets and treasuries to sterilize their chronic trade surpluses. Trade surpluses generally find their way back to countries with political stability, strong laws protecting capital and its free movement. Freezing Russian assets presents a new precedence.
Which brings us to the Russians accepting Chinese Renminbi for oil and gas. In the short-run, the Chinese will likely allow the Russians to hold Renminbi reserves. More likely the Chinese will prefer to sell them goods. Believe me for those of us who have studied the global trade system and balance of trade mechanisms, China does not currently want to be a reserve currency and they are not prepared to do so. One of the big things is that the Chinese would have to eliminate their strict capital controls. See Jmsuttr's note about the Triffin Dilemma. Contrary to popular belief, hosting a reserve currency presents difficult economic challenges.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684916]About the dollar, I'm certainly not a general defender of US monetary or economic policies (although I'm not an indiscriminate basher of same), but the relevant question with respect to dollar dominance is what currency (ies) are realistic candidates to replace it? Any such currency would need to be backed by a country willing to endure the Reserve Currency Paradox (aka Triffin's Dilemma).
[URL]https://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1011/how-the-triffin-dilemma-affects-currencies.aspx[/URL]
According to that concept, a reserve currency's issuing country needs to accept a permanent trade deficit condition. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm not aware of any sizeable world economy, other than the US, that perennially runs a trade deficit. So, while it's always in fashion to bash the dollar, it's hard to see what will move the needle in any substantial way.[/QUOTE]This is kind of a follow-up to my last post regarding global trade and currency.
Jmsuttr, I was impressed that you brought up the Triffin Dilemma. Most financial journalists have no clue what this well-accepted economic principle is. It's very common to generalize that the Dollar's reserve currency status is purely a benefit. It's often brought up in anti-American rhetoric as an unfair geopolitical advantage.
For obvious reasons, Wall Street is one benefactor of surplus Dollars accumulated around the globe and directed back to the United States assets. Wall Street is an important lobby for policies that protect the Dollar as a reserve currency.
For similar reasons as the Dollar, the British Pound acts a reserve currency in a smaller degree of magnitude. For the size of its economy, the you. K. Runs fairly large trade deficits perennially to absorb the inflow of capital from around the world. You. K. Policies protect capital rights and the free movement of capital in and out of the country.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2685132]Then WTF are you doing on this website? It's one thing to post your pro-Russia political thoughts, but you are trolling American men who travel abroad to meet foreign women on here the International Sex Guide of all places.
Pull your head out of your ass and look around at where you are.[/QUOTE]Uncharacteristically strong words from me on social media. However, I think you owe the entire Board an apology.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2684465]
Guess what. I give away 100% of what I earn, all of it.
[/QUOTE]So, not only are you a delusional crackpot, you're also a bum.
Figures.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684932]The stock answer in context of the future of the dollar for years has been, 'Yes, long-term it's all bad, but there's no place else to go. ' Anyone who's spent anytime in the industry knows this. And now we've reached the point where it's the linchpin openly behind US foreign policy. Question is will this battle with Russia lead to the endgame.
How it came to this should be general knowledge. See Michael Hudson, Super Imperialism (updated from your edition back in undergraduate economics).
Or his take on current situation: [URL]https://michael-hudson.com/category/articles/[/URL].
Of course Putin needs income, which is why he's not giving oil to belligerents that have frozen Russia's accounts. Sanctions have blowback -- in this case so obvious it can only be assumed to have been intentional to, as like the Nuland woman said, eff the E. You. Meanwhile, China will buy Russian oil and gas and pay in yuan which won't be frozen (stolen). The US confiscated Venezuela's foreign holdings, and they even stole poor Afghanistan's. And now Russia's..[/QUOTE]Is that they rely on multiple variables that may not play out in the ways envisioned by the predictive models. There are plenty of opinions out there, and I'm happy to let them argue the issues in their ivory towers. And predictions about the impending demise of the US are the most popular of all.
I'm much more interested in the pragmatic, empirical, and observable. The plain fact of the matter is that, prior to the invasion, Russia had a higher position in the world, politically and economically, than it does now. No matter how the war turns out, Putin has shown himself to be a barbaric war criminal. There's no coming back from that. And there's no coming back from the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of young Russians who have fled to make a future elsewhere.
Similarly, the image of a strong Russian military has been exposed and destroyed. Sure, Russia has their Soviet-legacy nukes, but their conventional forces have been exposed as a paper tiger. That's one reason why, IMO, Sweden and Finland are unmoved by Russian threats over NATO membership.
War is an uncertain and dynamic beast. Looking at a snapshot in time, or even a series of snapshots, and trying to extrapolate a prediction, is a tricky business. The sanctions regime, and any effects thereof, is similarly a dynamic beast. I find predictions as to who will prevail in the end, and how things will turn out, to be mostly exercises in vanity by people anxious to show off how much they know. And I generally find them to be reluctant to admit how much is unknown and how easily something that comes out of left field could screw up their predictions.
Here's just one example: All of the discussions I've seen re sanctions have assumed that China will continue to support Russia. What if that changes? I'm not saying it will, but I would observe that China isn't in a happy place right now, with having to lock down Shanghai (plus other cities, ports, factories, etc.) in their efforts to keep COVID from wreaking havoc. So, while I'm not predicting, I can envision a scenario in which a combination of China's vulnerabilities and Western pressures could have a material impact on support for Russia. My sole reason for laying out this scenario is to point out the hubris of those who make predictions without accounting for, or even discussing, variables that would skewer their theories.
It is, however, possible to lay out possible scenarios and, with an appropriate degree of humility, point out the rough probabilities of each one. But such discussions should also contain plenty of caveats as to how things could drastically change if the landscape of variables shift.
For example, I've continued to assert that there's unlikely to be any scenario in which Russia truly wins. Assuming, for the sake of argument, that they can occupy much or even all of Ukraine. That is likely to be a Pyrrhic victory as it's clear the Ukrainians don't see Russia as a liberator and don't want to be occupied or assimilated. Russia would be viewed as an aggressive occupier, perhaps having to brutally suppress insurgents, and the sanctions regime would continue.
Meanwhile, since oil and gas are fungible, most of Russia's former energy dependents will have switched, or be actively looking to switch, to other suppliers. The recent deal Italy signed with Algeria is a case in point. That would be a permanent loss of income for Russia and a corresponding reduction in leverage.
Again, I'm not in the prediction business and, historically speaking, most people who thought they had it all figured out ended up being wrong more often than right. But I am in the business of making observations. And one clear observation is that the state of Russia today is weaker than the state of Russia before February 24th. It's hard for me to see how a weakened Russia, having been devalued on a number of fronts, turns these deficits into a winning position. Much like chess, at some point the loss of material + poor positioning = a loss. I think Russia will play to the last pawn, unless something happens internally to tip over the king, but I find arguments for a Russian win to be singularly unconvincing.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2684852]They will accept only rubles for their oil and gas -- so far. [/QUOTE]They can accept Martian dirhams for what I care. No one is paying in rubles except his buddy Orban.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2685132]Then WTF are you doing on this website? It's one thing to post your pro-Russia political thoughts, but you are trolling American men who travel abroad to meet foreign women on here the International Sex Guide of all places.
[b]Pull your head out of your ass[/b] and look around at where you are.[/QUOTE]
Come on, be realistic. You're asking him to perform an impossible physical exercise.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2685132]Pull your head out of your ass and look around at where you are.[/QUOTE]That's asking a lot! Don't you think? LOL!
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2685057]It's here in the Title [URL]https://www.politico.com/newsletters/global-insider/2022/04/11/yes-russia-is-still-winning-00024373[/URL].
Whizzing through sources, the above caught my attention and read it more than once.
;If you think Russia isn't winning from its invasion of Ukraine, consider this: Moscow's monthly gas export receipts have tripled from a year ago; Marine LE Pen leads a Russian-sympathizing political bloc that is within reach of the French presidency; and from today, Western leaders will once again start arriving in Moscow to court President Vladimir Putin into a Ukraine settlement.
In other words: You can win even when you're being humiliated on the battlefield.
On the European front, Putin's supporters win elections in Hungary & Serbia [URL]https://edition.cnn.com[/URL] europe h.[/QUOTE]I'm doubtful LE Pen will win in France. She made it to the 2nd round in 2017, was polling less than Macron at that time, and lost. She's now made it to the 2nd round again, it's a similar situation to that in 2017, and I'll be surprised if the outcome isn't the same.
Predicting a winner at this point is a fool's errand, of course, but even if she wins she'll be constrained by France's membership in the EU. Hungary's Orban has already encountered similar constraints.
One possible LE Pen victory scenario is that she could certainly set a Frexit in motion. That would free France from EU constraints, but that's a years-long process even assuming she has enough support. Unless and until that happens, any friendly overtures toward Russia would have to conform to EU restrictions.
Politico, CNN, and The Times are certainly entitled to their predictions. But they're not immune to the pitfalls that come with that territory, which I detailed in my response to Golfinho.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2685169]They can accept Martian dirhams for what I care. No one is paying in rubles except his buddy Orban.[/QUOTE]Bonus points if you know where that reference is from!
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2685057] Marine LE Pen leads a Russian-sympathizing political bloc that is within reach of the French presidency; Marine Le Pen is the closest she has been to the French presidency:
He wins some and loses some![/QUOTE]Marene La Pine is the closest she has been to the French presidency but that doesn't mean zilch.
Think of it this way: With a brillant young QB and WR, the Buffalo Bills are the closest they have been to winning the Super Bowl.
Ie the lowest form of human life on the planet.
Your argument (sic) is them ore than 50% of the world the US gangster regime have under sanctions should fuck off to Russia even though you, being American, are on stolen land and therefore belong nowhere. You are, in other words, a bum.
And a stupid one. I have a stock of wealth. I do not need the flow of wealth so I give it away, all of it.
See, you are American. That means you are stupid and prone to violence and crime.
Now fuck off back to your American Politics thread.
And such a stupid thread it is. American wankers screaming at each other as immigrants spit roast their obese women.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2685165]So, not only are you a delusional crackpot, you're also a bum.
Figures.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ReefLostCause;2685198]Marene La Pine is the closest she has been to the French presidency but that doesn't mean zilch.
Think of it this way: With a brillant young QB and WR, the Buffalo Bills are the closest they have been to winning the Super Bowl.[/QUOTE]She's neither brilliant nor young. Persistent maybe. But not brilliant or young!
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2685222]I have a stock of wealth. I do not need the flow of wealth so I give it away, all of it.[/QUOTE]Here's a definition:
"Current usage of the term 'rentier capitalism' describes the gaining of 'rentier' income from ownership or control of assets that generate economic rents rather than from capital or labour used for production in a free competitive market."
[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rentier_capitalism[/URL]
Your statement that you have a "stock of wealth" that attends to your needs puts you squarely in the heart of the above definition. Since you're not exchanging your labor (manual or intellectual) for income then you're literally contributing nothing of value to society.
That revelation certainly explains a lot with respect to some of the bilge you post. Someone who actually works for a living would tend to have a reality-based take on things. Thanks for enlightening the forum as to why your world view is so disjointed and disconnected.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2685189]Bonus points if you know where that reference is from![/QUOTE]I do now, but only because I cheated, LOL.
As for your questions, I have no objection against that currency. Better than rubles, I think.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2685222] I have a stock of wealth. [/QUOTE]Nah, you don't. You're a bum.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2685358]I do now, but only because I cheated, LOL.
As for your questions, I have no objection against that currency. Better than rubles, I think.
Nah, you don't. You're a bum.[/QUOTE]I have tried to explain things to you, in baby language so that you might understand even though baby logic is beyond you. You do not because you are a fool.
"Marine LE Pen leads a Russian-sympathizing political bloc that is within reach of the French presidency; Marine LE Pen is the closest she has been to the French presidency."
European Politics isn't Local unlike American Politics as shown in the recent Elections in Hungary and Orban winning the elections in a mainly Roman Catholic country, and also the first country in the Iron Curtain to revolt against Russian domination.
Here is an interesting article on French Elections worth reading. [URL]https://www.ft.com/content/f1c99456-84b1-4193-b058-f72d0f738849[/URL].
"Marine LE Pen leads a Russian-sympathizing political bloc that is within reach of the French presidency; Marine LE Pen is the closest she has been to the French presidency:
Old age didn't stop Presidents Biden and Trump winning elections, did it!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2685168]Is that they rely on multiple variables that may not play out in the ways envisioned by the predictive models. There are plenty of opinions out there, and I'm happy to let them argue the issues in their ivory towers. And predictions about the impending demise of the US are the most popular of all.
I'm much more interested in the pragmatic, empirical, and observable. The plain fact of the matter is that, prior to the invasion, Russia had a higher position in the world, politically and economically, than it does now. No matter how the war turns out, Putin has shown himself to be a barbaric war criminal. There's no coming back from that. And there's no coming back from the tens (hundreds?) of thousands of young Russians who have fled to make a future elsewhere.
Similarly, the image of a strong Russian military has been exposed and destroyed. Sure, Russia has their Soviet-legacy nukes, but their conventional forces have been exposed as a paper tiger. That's one reason why, IMO, Sweden and Finland are unmoved by Russian threats over NATO membership.
War is an uncertain and dynamic beast. Looking at a snapshot in time, or even a series of snapshots, and trying to extrapolate a prediction, is a tricky business. The sanctions regime, and any effects thereof, is similarly a dynamic beast. I find predictions as to who will prevail in the end, and how things will turn out, to be mostly exercises in vanity by people anxious to show off how much they know. And I generally find them to be reluctant to admit how much is unknown and how easily something that comes out of left field could screw up their predictions..[/QUOTE]Of course, things seldom play out as scripted: The cunning of reason (if you recollect your Hegel), or blowback in the vernacular.
Too soon to know, but I'd suspect the people behind the USA warmongering are willing to play to the last pawn -- and that's us.
We want our currency to continue to enable us to romp in the world's fun spots and-- equally important -- not to have alternative currencies and economies destroyed (temporarily weakened a bit is ok, but not wiped out). We all know what happens when girls start quoting you in dollars -- no good. Anybody remember what good value Ecuador and Costa Rica were before they adopted the dollar? It's from this perspective that we need Russia and it's allies to weather this trial of strength.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2684929][URL]https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/04/answering-call-heavy-weaponry-supplied.html?m=1[/URL]
Obviously there will be a lot of things happening behind the scenes, and not announced publicly, but this site aims to keep track of everything it can and keep the list updated as new info comes in. For those still present in Ukraine, or anyone interested in this kind of war-related info, this would be a good site to bookmark. And it should also show which countries are keeping their commitments and which are just mouthing empty promises.[/QUOTE]Very good idea as well is to list Countries which are helping Russia in its occupation of Ukraine.
Here is one I found earlier, And guess what!! It's the Country that was invaded and we were told" Mission Accomplished."
[URL]https://www.timesofisrael.com/iran-backed-militias-in-iraq-reportedly-smuggling-weapons-to-arm-russian-invaders/[/URL]
"Iran-backed militias in Iraq reportedly smuggling weapons to arm Russia in Ukraine.
RPGs, anti-tank missiles, Bavar 373 missile system and Brazilian-designed rocket launcher systems have made their way from Iraq to Putin's forces, according to the Guardian".
AS for "Mission Accomplished in Iraq " [URL]https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/from-invasion-to-failed-state-iraqs-democratic-disillusionment/[/URL].
"Western-style democracy has failed Iraq, bringing a dystopian economy, an ineffectual government and more pain for its long-suffering people."
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2685358]As for your questions, I have no objection against that currency. Better than rubles, I think.[/QUOTE]Martian dirhams are valuable, but the Venusian Pusso is the most valuable currency in the Universe.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2685413]European Politics isn't Local unlike American Politics .
Old age didn't stop Presidents Biden and Trump winning elections, did it![/QUOTE]Old age wasn't a handicap then, but old age & apparent senility encourages even Old Allies to take the piss out of Politics by Joe President, LOL.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhcCPqc4pk[/URL]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2685422]Of course, things seldom play out as scripted: The cunning of reason (if you recollect your Hegel), or blowback in the vernacular.
Too soon to know, but I'd suspect the people behind the USA warmongering are willing to play to the last pawn -- and that's us.
We want our currency to continue to enable us to romp in the world's fun spots and-- equally important -- not to have alternative currencies and economies destroyed (temporarily weakened a bit is ok, but not wiped out). We all know what happens when girls start quoting you in dollars -- no good. Anybody remember what good value Ecuador and Costa Rica were before they adopted the dollar? It's from this perspective that we need Russia and it's allies to weather this trial of strength.[/QUOTE]I'd have a shitload of dollars, which I'd be glad to have rather than other alternatives. So I hope I'll be forgiven for keeping my financial car in the dollar's garage. It may not be perfect, but it's proven to be more reliable than the most of the competition. As the investing prospectus always says, "past performance is no guarantee of future results," but it's sure nice to have a decent track record.
As for your last point, from a human perspective I hope Russia and its allies crash and burn. I wouldn't shed a tear if Putin was Mussolinied by his own people. And I'm happy to see Comrade Xi hitching his horse to a wagon with a broken wheel (or four). May they keep each other company in the appropriate circle of Dante's Inferno.
Russia is a major exporter of weapons. Ask India.
There is no reason they would need to complicate matters by involving Iraq, a country America, cheered on by the Guardian, destroyed.
The Ukrainian marines did the right thing at Mariupol and surrender, Let's find out what NATO vermin are holed up with the die hard Azov Nazis. Some British cut throats have already surrendered The Geneva Convention does not apply to this surrender monkey or any Yanks that may be holed up there [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10712653/Captured-British-soldiers-family-beg-Russian-forces-treat-humane-dignified-way.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR2cWF1NGZfHl92bRfs3uNb-80eL4VArtR4j0kw6Beoy1Wk74OUZ05_oYEM[/URL].
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2685425]AS for "Mission Accomplished in Iraq " [URL]https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/from-invasion-to-failed-state-iraqs-democratic-disillusionment/[/URL].
"Western-style democracy has failed Iraq, bringing a dystopian economy, an ineffectual government and more pain for its long-suffering people."[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2685422]Of course, things seldom play out as scripted:
We want our currency to continue to enable us to romp in the world's fun spots and-- equally important -- not to have alternative currencies and economies destroyed (temporarily weakened a bit is ok, but not wiped out). We all know what happens when girls start quoting you in dollars -- no good. Anybody remember what good value Ecuador and Costa Rica were before they adopted the dollar? It's from this perspective that we need Russia and it's allies to weather this trial of strength.[/QUOTE]What's worse is when Girls start quoting in Euros. I was and still am comfortable with paying a Benjamin or equivalent in local currency as a benchmark for one hour with an EE / Central European hottie.
The Euro adoption = Higher prices for everything, On the other hand, a weaker Ruuble is great for mongering.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2685523]Russia is a major exporter of weapons. Ask India.
There is no reason they would need to complicate matters by involving Iraq, a country America, cheered on by the Guardian, destroyed.
The Ukrainian marines did the right thing at Mariupol and surrender, Let's find out what NATO vermin are holed up with the die hard Azov Nazis. Some British cut throats have already surrendered The Geneva Convention does not apply to this surrender monkey or any Yanks that may be holed up there [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10712653/Captured-British-soldiers-family-beg-Russian-forces-treat-humane-dignified-way.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR2cWF1NGZfHl92bRfs3uNb-80eL4VArtR4j0kw6Beoy1Wk74OUZ05_oYEM[/URL].[/QUOTE]India has got to be looking at developments and wondering if they're getting their money's worth.
[URL]https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/ukraine-war-russian-tanks-destroyed-outside-kyiv-ukrainian-troops-pose-for-selfies/videoshow/90581720.cms[/URL]
[URL]https://www.urdupoint.com/en/world/russias-moskva-missile-cruiser-seriously-dam-1496883.html[/URL]
[URL]https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/ukraine-claims-missile-strike-on-russian-warship-101649890367848.html[/URL]
Images of Russian tank turrets flying through the air, after being hit by a drone strike or shoulder-launched weapon, are all over the internet. And images of the burning and sinking cruiser Moskva may join them soon. If the ship was out of the range of land-based cameras, I'll be looking for satellite imagery to appear. BTW, I believe this is the ship that was the object of the famous Ukrainian "Russian Warship, Go Fuck Yourself" defiance incident.
I'm guessing that India, being shrewd consumers, will either demand a return clause or a steep discount! Russia would have been better off just displaying their weapon systems in parades, rather than actually using them and letting the world see their shortcomings.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2685523]
The Ukrainian marines did the right thing at Mariupol and surrender, Let's find out what NATO vermin are holed up with the die hard Azov Nazis. Some British cut throats have already surrendered The Geneva Convention does not apply to this surrender monkey or any Yanks that may be holed up there [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10712653/Captured-British-soldiers-family-beg-Russian-forces-treat-humane-dignified-way.html?ito=facebook_share_article-top&fbclid=IwAR2cWF1NGZfHl92bRfs3uNb-80eL4VArtR4j0kw6Beoy1Wk74OUZ05_oYEM[/URL].[/QUOTE]Putin's henchmen must be really desperate if they resort to sending their trolls to a mongering board.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2685516]I'd have a shitload of dollars, which I'd be glad to have rather than other alternatives. So I hope I'll be forgiven for keeping my financial car in the dollar's garage. It may not be perfect, but it's proven to be more reliable than the most of the competition. [/QUOTE]Well, it's not like we have a choice, unless you want to convert your dollars into diamonds and wear them in a little bag hanging around your neck. Or join the procession opening bank accounts in Panama, or start buying aquifers.
We all want to find out who will be The Ultimate Winners in The Ukraine Coflict, don't we?
According to this analysis in the respected Financial Times," The US will be the ultimate winner of Ukraine's crisis.
America stands to gain in stature and influence in Europe, Asia and the court of world opinion."
Written by [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janan_Ganesh[/URL].
Of course it's all a matter of Opinions and we all have more than one.
"Janan Ganesh is a biweekly columnist and associate editor for the FT. He writes on American politics for the FT and culture for FT Weekend."
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2685653]Putin's henchmen must be really desperate if they resort to sending their trolls to a mongering board.[/QUOTE]When China starting cracking down on Hong Kong, saw the same thing with China's trolls on social media.
It's bizarre when national pride translates to subjugating a people who want self-determination.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2685632]I'm guessing that India, being shrewd consumers, will either demand a return clause or a steep discount! Russia would have been better off just displaying their weapon systems in parades, rather than actually using them and letting the world see their shortcomings.[/QUOTE]Russia displays its tanks in a competition called Tank Olympics (or Tank Biathalon). There's videos. It's good watching. Look and see how the tanks from various countries compare. Not battle conditions obviously.
The rap against US armament is expensive maintenance, among other things. There's also a substantial literature on this. But until there's actual battlefield conditions, there's no way to know.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2685744]Well, it's not like we have a choice, unless you want to convert your dollars into diamonds and wear them in a little bag hanging around your neck. Or join the procession opening bank accounts in Panama, or start buying aquifers.[/QUOTE]Best investment as Mark Twain said, Buy land, they're not making it anymore.
What about buying Land in Russia with the Inevitable regime change there!
"Russia is an ideal country for farming business, mostly because the land is still very cheap. Foreigners have already purchased about 5 million hectares of agricultural land in Russia, and there are many reasons for this:
The cost of 1 acre of Russian land is several times cheaper than the price of 1 acre in South America or even in Africa."
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2685845]The cost of 1 acre of Russian land is several times cheaper than the price of 1 acre in South America or even in Africa."[/QUOTE]The price factors in the cost of clearing Stalin's skeletons.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2685808]It's bizarre when national pride translates to subjugating a people who want self-determination.[/QUOTE]Except when America does it, pardner, that's different. That's bringing Freedom.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2685887]Except when America does it, pardner, that's different. That's bringing Freedom.[/QUOTE]I don't remember people choosing Sadaam Hussein and the Taliban. That's self-determination, pardner.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2685808]When China starting cracking down on Hong Kong, saw the same thing with China's trolls on social media.
It's bizarre when national pride translates to subjugating a people who want self-determination.[/QUOTE]Social media is one thing (Putin's "Internet Research Agency" has been doing it for years) but a mongering board? LOL!
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2685845]Best investment as Mark Twain said, Buy land, they're not making it anymore.
What about buying Land in Russia with the Inevitable regime change there!
"Russia is an ideal country for farming business, mostly because the land is still very cheap. Foreigners have already purchased about 5 million hectares of agricultural land in Russia, and there are many reasons for this:
The cost of 1 acre of Russian land is several times cheaper than the price of 1 acre in South America or even in Africa."[/QUOTE]The more things change in Russia, the more they stay the same.
Buying into Russian land, you're also buying into Russian lawlessness, mind-blowing corruption and the lack of basic human rights. Every low-level administrator will hold an overwhelming power over you, unless you have the funds to buy their loyalty.
And god forbid you become successful one day. That's the worst thing that can happen to you in Russia.
Google "raider attacks".
[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/b2d2d226-791f-11e7-a3e8-60495fe6ca71[/URL]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2685744]Well, it's not like we have a choice, unless you want to convert your dollars into diamonds and wear them in a little bag hanging around your neck. Or join the procession opening bank accounts in Panama, or start buying aquifers.[/QUOTE]I could make like an oligarch and open a bank account in Switzerland, the Caymans, or similar location and make deposits in any currency they're willing to accept. And, for US citizens, I've seen guidelines for opening non-resident accounts in both Canada and Mexico. I also lived in a Middle Eastern country for a number of years and had the opportunity (which I declined) to open a local account, denominated in that nation's currency.
I don't claim to have exhaustively researched any of those options, for the simple reason that I'm happy to stick with the US dollar. I'm just making the point that, for anyone so inclined, there are options available other than precious stones or metals.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2685844]Russia displays its tanks in a competition called Tank Olympics (or Tank Biathalon). There's videos. It's good watching. Look and see how the tanks from various countries compare. Not battle conditions obviously.
The rap against US armament is expensive maintenance, among other things. There's also a substantial literature on this. But until there's actual battlefield conditions, there's no way to know.[/QUOTE]I have no doubt the Russians are able to put on a good show, as I'm sure the tank crews and mechanics understand that a good performance is needed to keep their next posting from being someplace in remotest Siberia. But (and I'm not an expert on the topic) I've seen quite a few analyses pointing out that the Russian Battle Tactical Group (BTG) generally has fewer personnel allocated to logistics than its American counterpart. And that issue was exacerbated by Putin's arrogance in assuming his army would only need a short time to achieve victory.
Complicated weapons systems that require expensive maintenance are certainly an issue, but the answer is to have a battle plan that ensures sufficient resources to repair or replace. I completely agree that there's no substitute for experience on the battlefield, and I'm sure every military command in the world, US included, is examining every scrap of information coming out of Ukraine under a high-powered microscope. One clear takeaway is that relatively inexpensive systems, like drones and shoulder-fired anti-tank weapons (Javelin, NLAW, etc.), have dramatically impacted battlefield dynamics.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2685926]I don't remember people choosing Sadaam Hussein and the Taliban. That's self-determination, pardner.[/QUOTE]Saddam and the Afghani Muhjahaddim / Taliban were chosen and put into power by your Uncle Shmuel. That's blowback, son. Apparently you don't remember much.
Again, I stress that these are unconfirmed rumors at this time, but they're certainly something to keep a watch for over the next few days.
1. Defense Minister Gen. Shoigu has suffered a massive heart attack. He's reportedly alive but in hospital intensive care. Also, 20 other Russian generals have reportedly been arrested.
[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10718247/Putins-defence-minister-Sergei-Shoigu-massive-heart-attack-not-natural-causes.html[/URL]
2. Admiral Igor Osipov, Commander of the Black Sea Fleet, has reportedly been arrested (and his adjutant badly beaten).
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/IsraelThreads/status/1514694443345092611?cxt=HHwWhoC97cWko4UqAAAA[/URL]
This Tweet is in Russian so you'll need to use your favorite translation method.
If these turn out to be true, or even one of them, it's indicative of purges at the highest levels and a continued cracking of the system. And it's my fervent hope that it all comes crashing down on pseudo-Tsar Putin's head.
[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2677236]I apologise, we haven't taken any pictures. It just hasn't been our main focus since we've been here. I will make an effort on Wednesday to take a picture close to the motherland monument.
In regards to the statement: "I've never been in a place that's racist to white people before."
I am more relaxed and logical now. Basically because I know I will be leaving Kyiv soon and I admit the statement above was an over emotional one.
I do admit it saddened me to be called a troll and a liar. I however understand what would make you guys think that. I am a lurker, I read and don't contribute. However I will change that, I will start posting more and contributing value to the forums. I have been to Ukraine many times and this website has been a great resource, Kyiv is a wonderful place as I am sure we all know. Once wartime is over, I am sure things will go back to normal. As long as the Russians don't shell everything to dust.[/QUOTE]So no "I made it home" post?
We all want to find out who will be The Ultimate Winners in The Ukraine Coflict, don't we?
According to this analysis in the respected Financial Times," The US will be the ultimate winner of Ukraine's crisis.
America stands to gain in stature and influence in Europe, Asia and the court of world opinion."
Written by [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janan_Ganesh[/URL].
Of course it's all a matter of Opinions and we all have more than one.
"Janan Ganesh is a biweekly columnist and associate editor for the FT. He writes on American politics for the FT and culture for FT Weekend.
Following the end of WW 2, 'The United States had more money than they could spend, more food than they could eat, more steel than they could use, more clothes than they could ever wear' (World At War ep. 25,1975.) Following European conflicts, it would appear the US makes out pretty well.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2685975]Saddam and the Afghani Muhjahaddim / Taliban were chosen and put into power by your Uncle Shmuel. [/QUOTE]Don't know who you mean by Uncle Shmuel! But we know ABU YAER was very popular with Congress.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Jgmds5FIM4g[/URL]
Netanyahu versus Abu Yair [URL]https://www.ynetnews.com/article/BJHyCvJNu[/URL].
"An uninformed visitor to Israel on eve of elections could be forgiven for thinking the PM was running as head of an Arab party due to his efforts to present himself as a lover of the sector."
"We are all with you Abu Yair" LOL.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2685974]...........I completely agree that there's no substitute for experience on the battlefield, and I'm sure every military command in the world, US included, is examining every scrap of information coming out of Ukraine under a high-powered microscope. One clear takeaway is that relatively inexpensive systems, like drones and shoulder-fired anti-tank weapons (Javelin, NLAW, etc.), have dramatically impacted battlefield dynamics.[/QUOTE]The Ukraine military and some NATO members have been training together for several years. The Ukrainians were getting prepared for what now seems like Putin's inevitable aggression.
An interesting quote from am April 13 Wall Street Journal article encapsulates some of the tactical changes: "Soldiers, plus military brass and overseers in parliament, have been transformed from a rigid Soviet-style force into a modern army that thinks on the move." Apparently, NATO was also able to learn from the Ukrainians original Soviet-style thinking.
In addition to changing battlefield dynamics, the Ukrainians are proving out the axiom that the defense has the advantage. Tanks as somewhat large and relatively slow targets might have limited effectiveness against an organized military with modern weaponry.
My fear is that as the longer this drags out Putin will do something crazy out of frustration.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2685513]Old age wasn't a handicap then, but old age & apparent senility encourages even Old Allies to take the piss out of Politics by Joe President, LOL.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WOhcCPqc4pk[/URL][/QUOTE]Now he's shaking hands with Thin Air!!
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_59agcnLAj4[/URL]
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zB0W91E3XOU[/URL]
President Joe Biden has made a "howler" of a gaffe during his State of the Union speech mistaking Ukrainians for "Iranians".
First of all I wanted to give my support to the people of Ukraine and especially the men and women serving in the military and fighting the Russian war machine of Putin. I hope that the Ukrainians will prevail as I have seen them on the internet really giving the Russians a good ass pounding. I hope they regain their independence again and kick the Russians out for good. I also lament I never got to visit Ukraine and meet some of the lovely sex workers over there in the past, guess now I never will. Life is cruel and unfair and that bastard Putin is to blame, he is a real POS.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2686178]Now he's shaking hands with Thin Air!!
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_59agcnLAj4[/URL]
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zB0W91E3XOU[/URL]
President Joe Biden has made a "howler" of a gaffe during his State of the Union speech mistaking Ukrainians for "Iranians".[/QUOTE]Having a senile POTUS, and a cackling buffoon for a VP has its advantageous: they'll make the ideal dispensable fall guys when the shit hits the fan.
[QUOTE=HulaHoops;2677236]I apologise, we haven't taken any pictures. It just hasn't been our main focus since we've been here. I will make an effort on Wednesday to take a picture close to the motherland monument.
In regards to the statement: "I've never been in a place that's racist to white people before."
I am more relaxed and logical now. Basically because I know I will be leaving Kyiv soon and I admit the statement above was an over emotional one.
I realize now that it's not fair whatsoever to judge people based on how they behave during wartime. I understand perfectly now that during wartime, the native civilians are given priority.
At the time I made the statement, I was extremely stressed and not sleeping well whatsoever. As I have said before we made the wrong decision to come here.
That particular statement came from some situations my group and I experienced.
1. One situation was when we went to purchase some items / seek assistance and we were ignored / brushed aside, while Ukrainians were given preferential treatment...[/QUOTE]We left Ukraine sometime ago, I'm back home in Berlin. Far away from the war and Russia's madness.
[QUOTE=SeaBeeJoe;2686410]First of all I wanted to give my support to the people of Ukraine and especially the men and women serving in the military and fighting the Russian war machine of Putin. I hope that the Ukrainians will prevail as I have seen them on the internet really giving the Russians a good ass pounding. I hope they regain their independence again and kick the Russians out for good. I also lament I never got to visit Ukraine and meet some of the lovely sex workers over there in the past, guess now I never will. Life is cruel and unfair and that bastard Putin is to blame, he is a real POS.[/QUOTE]Looking at the current state of affairs, it very much looks like Putin won't achieve his original goal of taking over Ukraine. It remains to be seen whether he'll be able to hold more Ukrainian territory than previously or will be forced to retreat to the pre-Feb 24th borders (or further).
But at some point, hopefully not too long in the future, there will be an end to active hostilities at least in the western areas and likely also in Kyiv and surrounding areas. When that happens, it's my guess there will be some kind of Marshall Plan put in place. If that's the case, money will come flooding in to the areas where Western govt reps and NGOs are based. Many refugees will be returning and a lot of them will voluntarily relocate to those areas. For one reason, their prior homes may no longer be habitable or in safe areas. For another, the money flooding in should create jobs and other opportunities as reconstruction efforts take off.
I'm thinking those hubs of reconstruction activity will attract sex workers as the rest of the country will be too poor (or destroyed) to support them. And it's possible that many of the sex workers will be women who previously worked in non sex-related jobs. Some of them may fall victim to trafficking / coercion, but many will see it as an opportunity to make more money than they otherwise could and thereby rebuild their lives and help their families. While a mongering board probably isn't the best place to moralize, anyone who takes advantage of a woman who isn't free to choose is a reprehensible piece of shit.
And, moving beyond Ukrainian borders, there will be some women who will settle in the country to which they fled, and decide that's the place they want to try to earn a living. Depending on the country and the individual situation, sex work might be their chosen option. It'll be interesting to see where everyone ends up after the dust settles, especially if Ukraine is accepted into the EU (Schengen status?) and residency / citizenship requirements are relaxed for refugees.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2686495]Having a senile POTUS, and a cackling buffoon for a VP has its advantageous: they'll make the ideal dispensable fall guys when the shit hits the fan.[/QUOTE]Touche! Seems like justice is about to catch up with him, as more and more Jan 5 insurgents are directly implicating him in the insurrection. Don't know about the ex-VP, though, since unlike his former boss, he still possessed enough brain matter to avoid breaking the law.
But yeah, the Senile Orange is going down hard. Thank you for bringing it up to our attention.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2686167]My fear is that as the longer this drags out Putin will do something crazy out of frustration.[/QUOTE]I certainly share your concern, but any significant escalation, especially of the crazy variety, will demand an adequate justification, even if it's a fake one. He's already played most of the available conventional warfare cards with Ukraine. What's left? Chemical weapons, tactical nukes, or perhaps drastically ramping up long-distance bombs and missiles? But, even though he could order it on a whim, using any WMD option without a MAJOR (real or pretextual) provocation would almost certainly result in loss of external support (Germany, Hungary, India, and poss China) and internal Russian support from all but his most fervent followers. And he's already pushing most of his conventional chips to the middle of the table. If he starts raining even more missiles on Ukrainian cities, it's my guess Zelensky will start receiving more and more anti-missile systems. If Russian cruise missiles and planes are increasingly intercepted and shot down, Putin will lose even more face than he has already.
Putin's other option is to try to goad a NATO country into crossing one of his imaginary "red lines," but nobody's taking the bait. He can huff and puff all he wants, but if he launches any kind of attack against Poland, the Baltics, the Nordics, etc. , he'll once again be branded the aggressor. And, since his conventional forces have shown themselves to be a joke, NATO could launch a retaliatory strike along conventional lines without crossing any nuke tripwires. Not that policymakers read ISG (or maybe they do?) But I would suggest something like sinking every single Russian naval vessel. Or maybe just every vessel in the Eurasian (Mediterranean, Black Sea, etc.) area. Something proportional, or just above that level, that bloodies his nose or breaks his kneecaps.
Getting back to the pretext problem, with every satellite and SIGINT resource trained on Russia, it's unlikely he can pull off a fake justification without being spotted and exposed. Even his most recent attempt (Ukrainian helo or shelling attack on Russian village) was quickly revealed as a fraud, since no UA forces were within range and a phone call intercept caught a Russian soldier talking about how the attack was being faked by their own forces. The Kremlin can make any claims they want, like they do with Bucha. But nobody believes them and that's likely to be the case if they tried to fake a justification big enough to support a major escalation.
Of course, I don't have a crystal ball, and war is uncertain, but I wanted to point out some potential obstacles Putin would need to overcome.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2686649]I certainly share your concern, but any significant escalation, especially of the crazy variety, will demand an adequate justification, even if it's a fake one. He's already played most of the available conventional warfare cards with Ukraine. What's left? Chemical weapons, tactical nukes, or perhaps drastically ramping up long-distance bombs and missiles? But, even though he could order it on a whim, using any WMD option without a MAJOR (real or pretextual) provocation would almost certainly result in loss of external support (Germany, Hungary, India, and poss China) and internal Russian support from all but his most fervent followers. And he's already pushing most of his conventional chips to the middle of the table. If he starts raining even more missiles on Ukrainian cities, it's my guess Zelensky will start receiving more and more anti-missile systems. If Russian cruise missiles and planes are increasingly intercepted and shot down, Putin will lose even more face than he has already..[/QUOTE]My concern, as I suspect is yours and others, is that Putin is irrational and not in the right mind. If that's the case, hopefully there are rational actors close to him. Assholes nonetheless, but rational to some degree.
Austrian Chancellor Nehammer who recently met with Putin said Putin thinks he's winning the war. Perhaps that's Putin's game face. If Putin actually thinks he's winning the war, perhaps that's a good thing on some level. Maybe we don't want to see what happens when he figures out he is losing the war.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2686879]My concern, as I suspect is yours and others, is that Putin is irrational and not in the right mind. If that's the case, hopefully there are rational actors close to him. Assholes nonetheless, but rational to some degree.
Austrian Chancellor Nehammer who recently met with Putin said Putin thinks he's winning the war. Perhaps that's Putin's game face. If Putin actually thinks he's winning the war, perhaps that's a good thing on some level. Maybe we don't want to see what happens when he figures out he is losing the war.[/QUOTE]I think Putin knows, on a "big picture" level, how bad things are going. He's never been stupid, and I don't subscribe to the irrational or delusional theory. That's because, if he was truly in such a state, that would be seen as mental weakness and, even to those most loyal, unfitness to lead and a danger to Russia.
Consider this: If Putin was irrational (and thought he was winning), it's more likely he would pull forces from Eastern Ukraine to move against Kyiv, rather than the reverse. If he could have taken Kyiv, and killed or captured Zelensky (or caused him to flee), he could have declared victory no matter what happened in the rest of the country. Kyiv and "denazification" success were the big prizes.
That tells me he's rational enough to recognize that Kyiv is out of reach. So now he's desperately trying to find something he can spin as a victory, especially by May 9th, and he's doubling down in the hope that something goes his way. About Putin's meeting with the Austrian Chancellor, he has no choice but to put on a brave face, in the same way that he continues to show false bravado with threats against Sweden, Finland, etc. He's backed himself into a corner, with respect to both internal and external audiences, and currently has no off-ramp or exit.
Putin's biggest problem, and blind spot, is that he is almost certainly in the dark as to how bad things are on a granular level. He won't know, nor will anyone likely have the balls to tell him, how badly corruption has hollowed out his armed forces or how poorly his officers, soldiers, and equipment are performing. And the problem with doubling down is that, if all you have are shitty cards, you can keep playing them but still won't have a winning hand.
Switching to your favorite sports analogy, Putin's in the bottom of the 9th inning, or in extra time of a football match, or at the two-minute warning of an American football game. Options are few, and getting fewer, and time's running short. I can't say I have any great insight as to how things will play out, but here's an article with a few interesting observations and thoughts.
[URL]https://geopoliticalfutures.com/time-for-putins-hail-mary-pass/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2686640]Looking at the current state of affairs, it very much looks like Putin won't achieve his original goal of taking over Ukraine. It remains to be seen whether he'll be able to hold more Ukrainian territory than previously or will be forced to retreat to the pre-Feb 24th borders (or further).[/QUOTE]You're confused over the intent of The Special Military Operation. President Putin has been clear from the outset: goal has been to free Ukraine from the fascists and to keep Ukraine neutral. Your confusion is understandable if all you've ingested is mainstream US and Western propaganda masquerading as news.
Will the objectives of the Special Military Operation change? Depends how determined USNato is to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. So far, Ukraine lives (the Christian ones) aren't worth much to them.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2687205]You're confused over the intent of The Special Military Operation. President Putin has been clear from the outset: goal has been to free Ukraine from the fascists and to keep Ukraine neutral. Your confusion is understandable if all you've ingested is mainstream US and Western propaganda masquerading as news.
Will the objectives of the Special Military Operation change? Depends how determined USNato is to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. So far, Ukraine lives (the Christian ones) aren't worth much to them.[/QUOTE]The military drive toward Kyiv, and attempts at encirclement, are the real-world facts that demonstrate Putin's intent toward that city, which is the seat of government, and against the Zelensky administration itself. Even accepting your Russo-Puti-philic slant, there's no way to free Ukraine from "fascists" (as Russia self-interestedly defines them) or keep Ukraine "neutral" (I. E. , a Russia-dominated state) without getting rid of Zelensky and installing a pro-Putin puppet. As I posted previously, if Putin had been successful at Kyiv he would have been crowing about it and Russian media would have been cheering their dominance and victory. But, after his army's utter failure and humiliating retreat, Putin is desperate to find a face-saving alternative solution.
As far as Putler's current objectives are concerned, the recent purges taking place in military and FSB circles would certainly seem to indicate that, first and foremost, he's looking to ensure his hold on power. That'll be tricky since his military has racked up notable failure after notable failure and his harshest critics are those who are even more hawkish. Of course, your confusion is understandable if all you've ingested is Russian propaganda-excrement masquerading as regular excrement.
But hey, if LilliPutin needs to make a quick getaway, he could always hitch a ride on the flagship of his Black Sea Fleet, right? Actually, the fate of the Moskva is likely to foreshadow the future of Russia. Poor little Vlad will go down in history as having committed the ultimate geopolitical own-goal!
BTW, the fact that you sidle up to the psyop term "Special Operation" is another clear tell of how far up Putin's nether orifice you are. You really should arrange a meet with Pedro M, IRL. Maybe he could direct some of his "stock of wealth" your way?
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNizGwjZbo0&ab_channel=GrahamPhillips[/URL]
I have some reservations about this. Two Brits, two cunts.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2687205]You're confused over the intent of The Special Military Operation. President Putin has been clear from the outset: goal has been to free Ukraine from the fascists and to keep Ukraine neutral. Your confusion is understandable if all you've ingested is mainstream US and Western propaganda masquerading as news.
Will the objectives of the Special Military Operation change? Depends how determined USNato is to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian. So far, Ukraine lives (the Christian ones) aren't worth much to them.[/QUOTE]That you conform closely to the official Kremlin vocabulary is telling.
And what does "(the Christian ones)" mean here? Time to blame the Jews is it? The Jewish Nazis? You think Zelenskyy is a Jewish Nazi?
Presented without comment, the article speaks for itself:
[URL]https://tsarizm.com/news/eastern-europe/2022/04/17/russian-ruble-loses-free-convertibility-status/[/URL]
"The ruble is no longer a freely convertible currency," (former Finance Minister Alexei) Kudrin admitted Tuesday to journalists. Prior to late February, the ruble was one of the world's few dozen fully convertible currencies not even the Chinese renminbi enjoyed such a status, wrote The Bell.
Even Kudrin who is considered to be close to Russian President Vladimir Putin was unable to hide his disappointment. And it was deeply symbolic that it was Kudrin who was the first official to talk publicly about the end of the convertible currency era."
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687386]The military drive toward Kyiv, and attempts at encirclement, are the real-world facts that demonstrate Putin's intent toward that city, which is the seat of government, and against the Zelensky administration itself. Even accepting your Russo-Puti-philic slant, there's no way to free Ukraine from "fascists" (as Russia self-interestedly defines them) or keep Ukraine "neutral" (I. E. , a Russia-dominated state) without getting rid of Zelensky and installing a pro-Putin puppet. As I posted previously, if Putin had been successful at Kyiv he would have been crowing about it and Russian media would have been cheering their dominance and victory. But, after his army's utter failure and humiliating retreat, Putin is desperate to find a face-saving alternative solution.
As far as Putler's current objectives are concerned, the recent purges taking place in military and FSB circles would certainly seem to indicate that, first and foremost, he's looking to ensure his hold on power. That'll be tricky since his military has racked up notable failure after notable failure and his harshest critics are those who are even more hawkish. Of course, your confusion is understandable if all you've ingested is Russian propaganda-excrement masquerading as regular excrement.
But hey, if LilliPutin needs to make a quick getaway, he could always hitch a ride on the flagship of his Black Sea Fleet, right? Actually, the fate of the Moskva is likely to foreshadow the future of Russia. Poor little Vlad will go down in history as having committed the ultimate geopolitical own-goal!
BTW, the fact that you sidle up to the psyop term "Special Operation" is another clear tell of how far up Putin's nether orifice you are. You really should arrange a meet with Pedro M, IRL. Maybe he could direct some of his "stock of wealth" your way?[/QUOTE]Propaganda Street runs both ways. The convoy parked outside Kiev was intended as a feint to keep Ukie troops fixed in place and not moved to the Donbas, you know, military strategy. And now The Comedien has his Ukronazis in Mariupol on no surrender notice: to keep the Z Force in place? Or in hopes they're eliminated and along with them nazism? Time will tell.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2687477]That you conform closely to the official Kremlin vocabulary is telling.
And what does "(the Christian ones)" mean here? Time to blame the Jews is it? The Jewish Nazis? You think Zelenskyy is a Jewish Nazi?[/QUOTE]You haven't been paying attention. The Zionist state extended offer to Ukrainians to relocate to its territories, that is Jewish Ukrainians only. Official Zionist vocabulary.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2687663]Propaganda Street runs both ways. The convoy parked outside Kiev was intended as a feint to keep Ukie troops fixed in place and not moved to the Donbas, you know, military strategy. And now The Comedien has his Ukronazis in Mariupol on no surrender notice: to keep the Z Force in place? Or in hopes they're eliminated and along with them nazism? Time will tell.[/QUOTE]That's like the old PeeWee Herman schtick where he says "I meant to do that" after a huge fall. There's not a single credible military strategist or analyst who believes that, not even in places like Hungary and Serbia that support Russia. What kind of a feint costs thousands of soldiers' lives and hundreds of pieces of irreplaceable equipment? And I say irreplaceable because Russia is having to close military factories that produce tanks and missiles due to lack of components. Thank you Western sanctions!
But hey, if that's what your Kool-Aid drenched brain wants to believe, no worries. If that's a feint, let's have a few more, eh? Then pretty soon we'll have Spetznatz troops in defensive positions around Moscow and the official line will be that the "Special Operation" was a feint to keep foreign troops from marching on Russia.
As far Mariupol is concerned, how many times has Russian propaganda proclaimed "imminent victory" there? It's got to be driving Putin batshit crazy that his pitiful army has been stalled there for so long. As far as no surrender is concerned, any soldier is likely to choose death from a bullet or artillery shell rather than surrender to butchers and animals who are very likely to subject you to torture. And, as far as your "time will tell" comment, I would simply observe that time has been Ukraine's friend and Russia's mortal enemy. With each passing day the noose around Putin's neck tightens while Western aid to Ukraine increases.
If Putin's army fails in Eastern Ukraine as badly as they did in the North, Putin's own war hawks may very well figure out a way to dethrone him. After all, what good is a "strong man" leader who can't perform? Putin's army is in need of some kind of military Viagra, but their prescription's run out, and they have no refills left. Poor, poor, LilliPutin!
Up to 10 available.
That Russia will eventually "win" this war is almost a certainty, size matters.
That Putin survives this "victory" is far from clear, hey, that Russia itself survives is far from clear.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687050]I think Putin knows, on a "big picture" level, how bad things are going. He's never been stupid, and I don't subscribe to the irrational or delusional theory. That's because, if he was truly in such a state, that would be seen as mental weakness and, even to those most loyal, unfitness to lead and a danger to Russia.
Consider this: If Putin was irrational (and thought he was winning), it's more likely he would pull forces from Eastern Ukraine to move against Kyiv, rather than the reverse. If he could have taken Kyiv, and killed or captured Zelensky (or caused him to flee), he could have declared victory no matter what happened in the rest of the country. Kyiv and "denazification" success were the big prizes.
That tells me he's rational enough to recognize that Kyiv is out of reach. So now he's desperately trying to find something he can spin as a victory, especially by May 9th, and he's doubling down in the hope that something goes his way. About Putin's meeting with the Austrian Chancellor, he has no choice but to put on a brave face, in the same way that he continues to show false bravado with threats against Sweden, Finland, etc. He's backed himself into a corner, with respect to both internal and external audiences, and currently has no off-ramp or exit.
Putin's biggest problem, and blind spot, is that he is almost certainly in the dark as to how bad things are on a granular level. He won't know, nor will anyone likely have the balls to tell him, how badly corruption has hollowed out his armed forces or how poorly his officers, soldiers, and equipment are performing. And the problem with doubling down is that, if all you have are shitty cards, you can keep playing them but still won't have a winning hand.
Switching to your favorite sports analogy, Putin's in the bottom of the 9th inning, or in extra time of a football match, or at the two-minute warning of an American football game. Options are few, and getting fewer, and time's running short. I can't say I have any great insight as to how things will play out, but here's an article with a few interesting observations and thoughts.
[URL]https://geopoliticalfutures.com/time-for-putins-hail-mary-pass/[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687748]..........And, as far as your "time will tell" comment, I would simply observe that time has been Ukraine's friend and Russia's mortal enemy. With each passing day the noose around Putin's neck tightens while Western aid to Ukraine increases.
If Putin's army fails in Eastern Ukraine as badly as they did in the North, Putin's own war hawks may very well figure out a way to dethrone him. After all, what good is a "strong man" leader who can't perform? Putin's army is in need of some kind of military Viagra, but their prescription's run out, and they have no refills left. Poor, poor, LilliPutin![/QUOTE]We cannot get any agreement on what is actually happening from Golfinho or Pedro. They are choosing to reiterate Russian media which is now essentially controlled by the government. Doesn't matter that we in the West have no restrictions on speech and we have dissent even on the Ukraine war.
Perhaps if we play out future scenarios and try to nail them down on what would be considered a loss for Russia, we won't have them droning on about Russia's martial capabilities and it prerogatives. Wouldn't Putin being removed from power be a major loss resulting from this conflict? Withdrawal from the Eastern Ukraine? Finland and Sweden joining NATO? A win for Russia would be the removal of almost all sanctions and the occupation of the Eastern Ukraine.
My fear is that Putin's Russia will dig in and occupy the Eastern Ukraine for an extended period and try to destabilize the rest of the country. No winner, no loser. Just stagnation and attrition on both sides. Nothing is resolved. Sanctions maintained indefinitely.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687748]That's like the old PeeWee Herman schtick where he says "I meant to do that" after a huge fall. There's not a single credible military strategist or analyst who believes that, not even in places like Hungary and Serbia that support Russia. What kind of a feint costs thousands of soldiers' lives and hundreds of pieces of irreplaceable equipment? And I say irreplaceable because Russia is having to close military factories that produce tanks and missiles due to lack of components. Thank you Western sanctions!
But hey, if that's what your Kool-Aid drenched brain wants to believe, no worries. If that's a feint, let's have a few more, eh? Then pretty soon we'll have Spetznatz troops in defensive positions around Moscow and the official line will be that the "Special Operation" was a feint to keep foreign troops from marching on Russia.
As far Mariupol is concerned, how many times has Russian propaganda proclaimed "imminent victory" there? It's got to be driving Putin batshit crazy that his pitiful army has been stalled there for so long. As far as no surrender is concerned, any soldier is likely to choose death from a bullet or artillery shell rather than surrender to butchers and animals who are very likely to subject you to torture. And, as far as your "time will tell" comment, I would simply observe that time has been Ukraine's friend and Russia's mortal enemy. With each passing day the noose around Putin's neck tightens while Western aid to Ukraine increases.
[/QUOTE]The excuse it was a feint was an illustration of propaganda. You bought the feint. See how that works.
This war is just getting started. It took the USA nineteen years to conquer mountain tribals in Afghanistan, and a dozen to have victory with honor over Vietnamese peasants.
[QUOTE=Cons68;2687769]That Russia will eventually "win" this war is almost a certainty, size matters.
That Putin survives this "victory" is far from clear, hey, that Russia itself survives is far from clear.[/QUOTE]The Russians have proclaimed victory in Mariupol more times than Hitler did at Stalingrad. Appears inevitable, but what foreign surprises await when all the rats are finally flushed out.
[QUOTE=Cons68;2687769]That Russia will eventually "win" this war is almost a certainty, size matters.
That Putin survives this "victory" is far from clear, hey, that Russia itself survives is far from clear.[/QUOTE]What would constitute a Russian "win" and what would be a considered a "loss"? A month ago, we were thinking Russia would run over Kiev and topple the Zelensky government.
Simply initiating destruction is not considered a victory in modern war thinking.
A likely outcome is that Russia occupies some Ukrainian territory indefinitely. Is that a "win" if the West rebuilds the rest of the Ukraine better than before and invites them into the European Union? Is it a "win" if Finland and Sweden join NATO?
In most wars, the tragic loss of life and destruction does not usually lead to a better situation. Life will suck for Eastern Ukrainians. However, the Ukraine will emerge as a sovereign nation with a stronger identity.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2687777]The excuse it was a feint was an illustration of propaganda. You bought the feint. See how that works.
This war is just getting started. It took the USA nineteen years to conquer mountain tribals in Afghanistan, and a dozen to have victory with honor over Vietnamese peasants.[/QUOTE]Since this is an anonymous fuckboard, nothing posted here has any real-world effect, none whatsoever. In stark contrast, Russia's belief in its internal propaganda, such as the mistaken idea they would be greeted as liberators in Ukraine, has had the effect of tens of thousands of Russian pawns being unceremoniously swept off the board. Meanwhile, closer to the Black King, a number of bishops and knights have also been removed without Ukrainians needing to set one foot on Russian soil. See how real life works?
And no propaganda, feint, or other device is going to bring back those lost pieces. Neither will they raise the Moskva from its well-deserved place in Davey Jones' Locker. Neither will they restore Russia's lost geopolitical status. Those are irretrievably gone, all of them sacrificed on the altar of Putin's ubermensch fantasy, fed by the Kremlin's non-stop propaganda machine.
Afghanistan? Vietnam? Now you're just being stupid. There is no victory scenario for Russia. Zero, zip, nada. They've already lost and it's just a matter of time before that reality sets in. Real life is a b, ain't it? See how that works?
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2687775]We cannot get any agreement on what is actually happening from Golfinho or Pedro. They are choosing to reiterate Russian media which is now essentially controlled by the government. Doesn't matter that we in the West have no restrictions on speech and we have dissent even on the Ukraine war.
Perhaps if we play out future scenarios and try to nail them down on what would be considered a loss for Russia, we won't have them droning on about Russia's martial capabilities and it prerogatives. Wouldn't Putin being removed from power be a major loss resulting from this conflict? Withdrawal from the Eastern Ukraine? Finland and Sweden joining NATO? A win for Russia would be the removal of almost all sanctions and the occupation of the Eastern Ukraine.
My fear is that Putin's Russia will dig in and occupy the Eastern Ukraine for an extended period and try to destabilize the rest of the country. No winner, no loser. Just stagnation and attrition on both sides. Nothing is resolved. Sanctions maintained indefinitely.[/QUOTE]I'm indifferent to the bilge posted by Golfy and Pedrito (or is that perrito?) because their fantasy-based, propaganda-centric musings have no chance when stacked up against reality, facts, and evidence. My main reason for posting is mostly because it's a rollicking exercise to pop their silly bubbles and illustrate just how delusional they are. And it's also my hope that I can perhaps share a few articles and points of information that others in the forum might not yet have seen.
I'm sure you've noticed that, when faced with objective facts such as the sinking of the Moskva, or the rubbleization of the ruble, G & P will shuck and jive, change the subject, or whatever else they can think of to avoid the reality that's slapping them in the face and skewering their BS.
As for how things will play out, that obviously depends on a multitude of variables, some that we know but also others that will only surface over time. But I think it's safe to say that just about every conceivable (and reasonably believable) future scenario will leave Russia worse off than it was before Putin chose to invade. And, by definition, any endpoint in which one has (going back to a chess analogy) lost both material and position cannot be credibly described as a win. That's why I'm confident in my repeated assertion that Russia has already lost. Over time we'll ascertain the magnitude, but the loss itself is a fait accompli.
It's important to note, however, that a loss by Russia doesn't automatically mean a win for Ukraine. There are several plausible lose-lose scenarios so everything will depend on the response of Ukrainians themselves and those countries who step up in support. To that latter point, I'm very heartened by the role being played by some of the less prominent European countries, like Poland, Slovakia, and the Baltics. They're showing remarkable leadership and in many ways shaming their more prominent neighbors into doing more.
So, while it's hard to say if this is the beginning of the end, or merely the end of the beginning, I'm encouraged by how the game is progressing to this point.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2687666]You haven't been paying attention. The Zionist state extended offer to Ukrainians to relocate to its territories, that is Jewish Ukrainians only. Official Zionist vocabulary.[/QUOTE]Israel pointing out the right of return isn't meaningful beyond exactly what it is.
That you want to shift the paradigm away from Putin, and instead pivot to the Jews, is very telling indeed.
[QUOTE=Cons68;2687769]That Russia will eventually "win" this war is almost a certainty, size matters.
That Putin survives this "victory" is far from clear, hey, that Russia itself survives is far from clear.[/QUOTE]What has been shown in this war is that size doesn't matter. Russian military is dominated by armour. Its clear that the armour wasn't successful against Kiev. When you have to meet your enemy on foot in their territory you need significantly larger numbers than the defender as well as good logistic support.
The Russian air force has not even been able to establish air superiority. The Russian military is using dated technology that does not stand up to drones and hand held anti tank and anti aircraft weaponry. In the age of the smart phone there is not a lot of enthusiasm for volunteering to be a grunt that gets their limbs blown off. Not good selfie material hence the low moral.
If the west keeps up sufficient supply of modern weapons then Russia will not be able to hold ground taken. If the west gets bored and tapers its supply Russia will probably grind itself to military victory at the cost of much of its front line armour and aircraft and in 3-4 years the biggest market for its gas gone. Europe (read Germany) has finally worked out that financially supporting Russia is not in their long term interests.
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1516464028729679872.html[/URL]
"Elvira Nabiullina, head of the Central Bank: Logistical blockade hurts even more than financial sanctions. Supply chains are broken."
"Sergei Sobyanin, mayor of Moscow: 200,000 people are at risk of losing jobs in Moscow alone."
"Andrei Belousov, deputy prime minister (this one wasn't reported in the West, but it's crucial): Economic stimulus to fight the crisis without risking further inflation is limited to 7-8 trln rubles and the government has already reached this limit."
When analyzing statements made by govt officials, one way to look at them is that, if they're announcing good news, they're often prone to overstate the positives. And, if bad news, they're often prone to minimize negatives. It's not always the case, but it's in line with human nature in general and also with the natural desire to not upset their superiors. Of course, in this case it's also possible they might be trying to front-run bad news because they want to prepare people for what's coming.
No matter how you slice it, whether the bad shit is already hitting the fan, or whether even more serious shit is just about to hit the fan, these senior officials are painting a bleak picture of the Russian economy.
Oh, and please notice what's conspicuously absent from all of the comments -- any mention of the role of China as even a partial answer to the problems posed by sanctions.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687844]Since this is an anonymous fuckboard, nothing posted here has any real-world effect, none whatsoever. In stark contrast, Russia's belief in its internal propaganda, such as the mistaken idea they would be greeted just being stupid. There is no victory scenario for Russia. Zero, zip, nada. They've already lost and it's just a matter of time before that reality sets in. Real life is a b, ain't it? See how that works?[/QUOTE]The reality of a unipolar world -- won't that be nice. Then you'll get to experience the real life as a be -- globohomo rule, paying girls everywhere in dollars / euros, Americanized women from Moscow, Kiev, everywhere. See how that works?
We don't care about Putin, but if you need a bogeyman for your projections, that's understandable.
[QUOTE=Neurosynth;2687901]Israel pointing out the right of return isn't meaningful beyond exactly what it is.
That you want to shift the paradigm away from Putin, and instead pivot to the Jews, is very telling indeed.[/QUOTE]The Right of Exclusion is exactly what it is, the prerogative of a supremacist ethno-religious apartheid state. Fine by them -- so long as they can get away with it. This state has pivoted to Ukraine by using the sad situation as an opportunity to lure away the Ukiejew population, while the Ukiechristians can remain to get slaughtered.
Now that you've been shifted back to realities, any further of your commentary on this subject would be telling, telling that you've internalized the commands of your oppressors.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687386]BTW, the fact that you sidle up to the psyop term "Special Operation" is another clear tell of how far up Putin's nether orifice you are. You really should arrange a meet with Pedro M, IRL. Maybe he could direct some of his "stock of wealth" your way?[/QUOTE]Maybe they are the same person, Russian bots are everywhere.
That is exactly why I used "quotes".
Those of us old enough to remember the "Mission accomplished" banner. You know.
And yes, the scenario you paint, an Eastern Ukraine sinking in poverty and a Western Ukraine quickly improving their standards of life is the "win" that Russia may not survive scenarios I was thinking of.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2687780]What would constitute a Russian "win" and what would be a considered a "loss"? A month ago, we were thinking Russia would run over Kiev and topple the Zelensky government.
Simply initiating destruction is not considered a victory in modern war thinking.
A likely outcome is that Russia occupies some Ukrainian territory indefinitely. Is that a "win" if the West rebuilds the rest of the Ukraine better than before and invites them into the European Union? Is it a "win" if Finland and Sweden join NATO?
In most wars, the tragic loss of life and destruction does not usually lead to a better situation. Life will suck for Eastern Ukrainians. However, the Ukraine will emerge as a sovereign nation with a stronger identity.[/QUOTE]
It is only 50 days, that I agree is like 45 more than most pundits expected.
However Ukraine is a small nation, they can not take the losses the same way Russians do, forget armor, I am talking about loss of human life.
Compromise will happen most likely, but as I said, it is likely that this will damage Russian more in the medium / long term.
Let see.
[QUOTE=GDreams;2687902]What has been shown in this war is that size doesn't matter. Russian military is dominated by armour. Its clear that the armour wasn't successful against Kiev. When you have to meet your enemy on foot in their territory you need significantly larger numbers than the defender as well as good logistic support.
The Russian air force has not even been able to establish air superiority. The Russian military is using dated technology that does not stand up to drones and hand held anti tank and anti aircraft weaponry. In the age of the smart phone there is not a lot of enthusiasm for volunteering to be a grunt that gets their limbs blown off. Not good selfie material hence the low moral.
If the west keeps up sufficient supply of modern weapons then Russia will not be able to hold ground taken. If the west gets bored and tapers its supply Russia will probably grind itself to military victory at the cost of much of its front line armour and aircraft and in 3-4 years the biggest market for its gas gone. Europe (read Germany) has finally worked out that financially supporting Russia is not in their long term interests.[/QUOTE]
You evil imperialist dog!
The Moskva has not been sunk! It has been upgraded with submarine warfare capabilities, a technology you can only dream of.
More seriously, I am not as happy as you are. My development team was mostly based in Ukraine, and while so far they are all more or less good. And some of them even outside fighting the CyberArmy, the toll is really heavy.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2687858]
I'm sure you've noticed that, when faced with objective facts such as the sinking of the Moskva, or the rubbleization of the ruble, G & P will shuck and jive, change the subject, or whatever else they can think of to avoid the reality that's slapping them in the face and skewering their BS.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2688006]The reality of a unipolar world -- won't that be nice. Then you'll get to experience the real life as a be -- globohomo rule, paying girls everywhere in dollars / euros, Americanized women from Moscow, Kiev, everywhere. See how that works?
We don't care about Putin, but if you need a bogeyman for your projections, that's understandable.[/QUOTE]I personally don't give a fuck about unipolar vs multipolar. But I do care when butchers rise up and, using the pretexts that are always at hand, invade countries that posed no real threat. And please spare us the mindless repetition of the gas that Putin blows out his ass. There is no objective, rational, analysis that supports the notion that Russia faced an existential threat. If you're looking for bogeymen, look no further than the ludicrous hysterics filling Russian media.
I've never been a defender of pre-Feb 24th Ukraine and I'm quite aware of a variety of sins they're likely guilty of. But nothing excuses Putin's war of choice. And nothing excuses the war crimes about which evidence (much of it gathered by third-parties) mounts daily.
The term "bogeyman" implies that the fear, blame, and oppobrium is misplaced. In stark contrast, and based on overwhelming factual evidence, Putin fully deserves his condemnation. All that remains is for a tipping point to be reached within Russia itself. It's instructive to remember that Mussolini was adored and revered, until the moment arrived when he wasn't. May that moment arrive for Putin as quickly as possible.
BTW, even if (when, IMO) Putin is dethroned, the most likely scenario is that his replacement will come from the current crop of Russian elites. That person will blame Putin for everything, and will promise reforms, most of which will be of the token variety if they happen at all. But Russia will continue, most probably along the customary kleptocratic lines, with the only difference being the demonization of Putin.
And demonization is exactly what will happen. Stalin was a butcher but he wasn't a loser. Russian pride can tolerate butchery as long as it's accompanied by victory. What they can't tolerate is a loser, and that's exactly the label they'll stick on poor LilliPutin. Their own pride and self-esteem will demand that they expunge the memory of Putin from the collective consciousness. It will be glorious to witness!
Oh, and China will continue to be a major player, so you can still have you multipolar wet dreams, no worries. But Russia may have cause to worry about China as Comrade Xi looks to take advantage of the power vacuum Putin's downfall will cause. Does anyone remember the Chinese name for Vladivostok? It might be useful to brush up on little factoids like that.
[QUOTE=Cons68;2688102]More seriously, I am not as happy as you are. My development team was mostly based in Ukraine, and while so far they are all more or less good. And some of them even outside fighting the CyberArmy, the toll is really heavy.[/QUOTE]Everything posted in this forum can be appropriately characterized as "comments from the peanut gallery," and thoroughly inconsequential. But the real lives in Ukraine being disrupted, destroyed, and untimely ended, that's what truly matters.
Every analyst and ivory tower pundit who doesn't acknowledge the price being paid by real people isn't worth reading or listening to.
Also, anything I might post that might seem "happy" is only so to the extent that I will be glad to see the just consequences of brutality and aggression visited upon the heads of the aggressors and brutalizers. I would have been truly happy had Ukraine not been invaded.
Great mental stimulation going down memory lane. So glad I enjoyed the golden years but sad it ended this unimaginable way. First one to go was Donetsk.
Originally Posted by Jojosun.
I have a feeling (blondie's party) will win the election, come jan10, and she has pledged to join the ee, then the golden days will come gradually to an end.
The IMF and the EE did not pump 16 billion dollars into the Ukraine economy for nothing.
Ukraine can not be more nationalist than Serbia, which opted for the ee direction, so in a nutshell the ee needs Ukraine, and the Ukraine needs the ee, and they couldn't give a fuck about us mongers.
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?816-Kiev/page1105[/URL]
[URL]https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/04/18/former-sberbank-senior-executive-flees-russia-vedomosti-a77389[/URL]
For clarification, my definition of the elite class is wider than just govt officials, and includes anyone with sufficient money and societal status such that they could (if they chose) ride out the current storm. That's not to say they wouldn't endure some degree of hardship, but their position and wealth would serve as a buffer against severe outcomes.
When someone in that class chooses to leave, that's a de facto vote on how they view their future prospects in Russia. And, when a member of the elite class takes such a drastic step, it's guaranteed that others will notice. And some who take note will start asking their own questions, and perhaps start making or perfecting their own plan of departure.
Sanctions were imposed on Russia but the Folks at Goldman Sacks found a way of getting round it according to NBC.
[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/goldman-sachs-profits-ukraine-war-loophole-sanctions-rcna19584[/URL]
"How Goldman Sachs profits from war in Ukraine, loophole in sanctions.
The Wall Street firm has told the public it is "winding down" its business in Russia, portraying its actions as supportive of USA Efforts to stop Russian President Vladimir Putin."
"An investor who declined a Goldman trader's offer to add Russian debt to his hedge fund's portfolio because of the war said the trader suggested he could "just put it in your personal account" to avoid scrutiny".
Shares in defence stocks are surging [URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/sergeiklebnikov/2022/03/04/war-stocks-are-surging-as-russia-ukraine-conflict-rages-on-lockheed-martin-northrop-up-20/[/URL].
[URL]www.thetimes.co.uk[/URL]
Defence companies having a good war in Ukraine as shares skyrocket.
Such investors aren't really weeping over the Invasion of Ukraine, are they?
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2688025]The Right of Exclusion is exactly what it is, the prerogative of a supremacist ethno-religious apartheid state. Fine by them -- so long as they can get away with it. This state has pivoted to Ukraine by using the sad situation as an opportunity to lure away the Ukiejew population, while the Ukiechristians can remain to get slaughtered.
Now that you've been shifted back to realities, any further of your commentary on this subject would be telling, telling that you've internalized the commands of your oppressors.[/QUOTE]Putin is the one doing all the killing. Your attempt to blame the Jews ultimately didn't work for Hitler, won't work for Putin, and labels you as one in the same for all to see.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2688389]Sanctions were imposed on Russia but the Folks at Goldman Sacks found a way of getting round it according to NBC.
[URL]https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/goldman-sachs-profits-ukraine-war-loophole-sanctions-rcna19584[/URL]
"How Goldman Sachs profits from war in Ukraine, loophole in sanctions.
The Wall Street firm has told the public it is "winding down" its business in Russia, portraying its actions as supportive of USA Efforts to stop Russian President Vladimir Putin."
"An investor who declined a Goldman trader's offer to add Russian debt to his hedge fund's portfolio because of the war said the trader suggested he could "just put it in your personal account" to avoid scrutiny".[/QUOTE]If I understand the Goldman Sachs article correctly, the Russian debt in question is being bought and sold on the secondary market and had to be issued before March 1st. Russia (as the issuer of the primary security) has already received the funds from the initial sale. These secondary sales are between institutions or private individuals trading in those already-issued instruments, and no sanctioned entity can be party to, or a beneficiary of, such transactions.
That's certainly not a defense of Goldman Sachs. It's entirely fair to criticize them as bottom-feeding scum looking to make a profit from the wartime misery of others, so feel free to bash away! I just wanted to point out that this particular sanction "loophole" does not direct money into Putin's war coffers, or (as is so often the case) his personal pocket.
As for defense companies profiting, that's pretty much always been true in times of war. I wonder what the balance sheets and P&L statements of arrow and lance manufacturers looked like in medieval times?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2688619]If I understand the Goldman Sachs article correctly, the Russian debt in question is being bought and sold on the secondary market and had to be issued before March 1st. Russia (as the issuer of the primary security) has already received the funds from the initial sale. These secondary sales are between institutions or private individuals trading in those already-issued instruments, and no sanctioned entity can be party to, or a beneficiary of, such transactions.
That's certainly not a defense of Goldman Sachs. It's entirely fair to criticize them as bottom-feeding scum looking to make a profit from the wartime misery of others, so feel free to bash away! I just wanted to point out that this particular sanction "loophole" does not direct money into Putin's war coffers, or (as is so often the case) his personal pocket.
As for defense companies profiting, that's pretty much always been true in times of war. I wonder what the balance sheets and P&L statements of arrow and lance manufacturers looked like in medieval times?[/QUOTE]I read the same thing. I don't know why our government wouldn't let USA Firms trade already issued Russian bonds. All that happens is investors who want to take on more risk buy the bonds from investors who cannot tolerate the risk of sitting on assets that could be totally worthless.
In my opinion, the headline is a bit of clickbait.
[URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-sweden-begin-nato-application-may-say-local-media-reports-2022-04-25/[/URL]
Where did all the Putin-loving posters go? I'd love for them to explain how this is all part of Little Vlad's masterful (sarc) plan!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2690025][URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-sweden-begin-nato-application-may-say-local-media-reports-2022-04-25/[/URL]
Where did all the Putin-loving posters go? I'd love for them to explain how this is all part of Little Vlad's masterful (sarc) plan![/QUOTE]That's because the Russians are losing. They're losing the war on the battlefield, they're losing the war of public opinion, they're losing their economy, their money, their lifestyles, their soul and their mind. With Finland joining NATO, they're about to lose that one thing they've been fighting for so hard. Keeping the block from expanding to its borders.
Oh well! It's hard to root for a loser.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2690159]That's because the Russians are losing. They're losing the war on the battlefield, they're losing the war of public opinion, they're losing their economy, their money, their lifestyles, their soul and their mind. With Finland joining NATO, they're about to lose that one thing they've been fighting for so hard. Keeping the block from expanding to its borders.
Oh well! It's hard to root for a loser.[/QUOTE]Yes, it was a mistake for Russians to engage in a war with Ukraine and in the near future they will realize that this stupid decision of there's is going to bring a number of negative outcomes.
Sweden is already de facto a NATO member. Finland is a different case. Its pipsqueak naval exercises with the Baltic pimples this month won't amount to much.
The problem in Europe is Americans. Americans do not belong here or anywhere else for that matter. Europe will not improve until it is open season on Americans and Americans are recognized as the genocidal maniacs that they are. Think Vietnam war.
Your Nazi filth remain trapped in the Azov steel works, along with their American commanders. Most of Ukraine's army is bogged down in its east. My own opinion is Russia have given them plenty of warning and they should now unleash hell on them, just as American filth did in Iraq and elsewhere.
But I am not on the Russian command staff.
I have other things to do than argue with brain dead Americans here all day long. No wonder these threads are called Stupid Shit. Stupid Americans might be more apt.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2690025][URL]https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finland-sweden-begin-nato-application-may-say-local-media-reports-2022-04-25/[/URL]
Where did all the Putin-loving posters go? I'd love for them to explain how this is all part of Little Vlad's masterful (sarc) plan![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2690159]That's because the Russians are losing. They're losing the war on the battlefield, they're losing the war of public opinion, they're losing their economy, their money, their lifestyles, their soul and their mind. With Finland joining NATO, they're about to lose that one thing they've been fighting for so hard. Keeping the block from expanding to its borders.
Oh well! It's hard to root for a loser.[/QUOTE]Nobody is winning. This is a total mess. The war needs to end yesterday, somebody needs to win.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2690272]Nobody is winning. This is a total mess. The war needs to end yesterday, Ukraine needs to win.[/QUOTE]Fixed that for you.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2690221]Sweden is already de facto a NATO member. Finland is a different case. Its pipsqueak naval exercises with the Baltic pimples this month won't amount to much.
The problem in Europe is Americans. Americans do not belong here or anywhere else for that matter. Europe will not improve until it is open season on Americans and Americans are recognized as the genocidal maniacs that they are. Think Vietnam war.
Your Nazi filth remain trapped in the Azov steel works, along with their American commanders. Most of Ukraine's army is bogged down in its east. My own opinion is Russia have given them plenty of warning and they should now unleash hell on them, just as American filth did in Iraq and elsewhere..[/QUOTE]And he's on shaky ground. Oh wait, it's not the ground that's shaking, it's Little Vlad's uncontrollable hand, leg, and foot tremors! How sad it must be for Russians who crave a strong leader to witness Putin's obviously failing health. As I understand it, diseases like Parkinson's can impact cognitive abilities and exacerbate irrational behavior. That certainly explains a lot, doesn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if there are some elites snickering in the background and making jokes! I'd be tempted to feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a murderous thug.
No matter, there's not a single metric by which Russia isn't worse off now than before Feb 24th. And, in direct contrast, the influence of US-led NATO is increasing in Europe by leaps and bounds. The West has never been more united and America hasn't been this welcomed in Europe since WW-II.
Most likely scenario: Finland + Sweden in NATO, Ukraine in the EU, and Russia in the shitter.
Oh, and about Mariupol? Russian propaganda-mongers have proclaimed "victory" on a daily basis for more than a month now. So how come they still need to drop bombs on "conquered" territory? I'm guessing there are some Russian generals who are pissing themselves right now because they're frantic to have something they can pretend is a "victory" by May 9th.
Better hurry up, Comrades, that date is only about a week away! And LilliPutin is not in a forgiving mood.
P.S. About Stupid Shit threads, for someone who claims to be above them you certainly post in them a lot. Not just here, but in Medellin, etc. How hilarious it is for the pig to bad mouth the muck he rolls around in (LOL).
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2690272]Nobody is winning. This is a total mess. The war needs to end yesterday, somebody needs to win.[/QUOTE]When you're being attacked by a bigger, more powerful opponent, not losing is the equivalent of a win. Hanging in there while the bully exhausts himself gives you a chance to strike back when the opportunity presents itself.
Ukraine didn't choose this war, Russia did. And Ukraine doesn't have the luxury of dictating terms and conditions. The best they can do is roll with the punch. And, with the support they're receiving from NATO and the West, they now have a fighting chance. Every piece of eqp lost by Russia will be difficult or impossible to replace. Every Ukraine loss is being replaced by weapons that are even newer and better.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2690587]Fixed that for you.[/QUOTE]When your country is destroyed, sorry that is not a win. They will never get into NATO because of the corruption. Yes, both Russia and Ukraine are screwed. Especially they every day people.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2691603]And he's on shaky ground. Oh wait, it's not the ground that's shaking, it's Little Vlad's uncontrollable hand, leg, and foot tremors! How sad it must be for Russians who crave a strong leader to witness Putin's obviously failing health. As I understand it, diseases like Parkinson's can impact cognitive abilities and exacerbate irrational behavior. That certainly explains a lot, doesn't it? I wouldn't be surprised if there are some elites snickering in the background and making jokes! I'd be tempted to feel sorry for him if he wasn't such a murderous thug.
No matter, there's not a single metric by which Russia isn't worse off now than before Feb 24th. And, in direct contrast, the influence of US-led NATO is increasing in Europe by leaps and bounds. The West has never been more united and America hasn't been this welcomed in Europe since WW-II.
Most likely scenario: Finland + Sweden in NATO, Ukraine in the EU, and Russia in the shitter.
Oh, and about Mariupol? Russian propaganda-mongers have proclaimed "victory" on a daily basis for more than a month now. So how come they still need to drop bombs on "conquered" territory? I'm guessing there are some Russian generals who are pissing themselves right now because they're frantic to have something they can pretend is a "victory" by May 9th.[/QUOTE]Great post. I post about MDE because it is shit-hole, but you probably like the place. The difference between Kiev and MDE. 10-15 years ago Kiev was an amazing place, full of energy, great food, fun, amazing night-life, , great theater, good weather and many other wonderful things. Then corruption took over and unfortunately the country fell apart. I really doubt MDE was ever good, unless you have terribly low standards, you like bad service and even worse food. I can go on. If you like cheap sex was average girls and very curvy, then go. I am sure Bogota is much better, but both are very dangerous and full of drugs.
For all you flyover country cowboys and Gotham shtetl crawlers, we hear ya.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AVf7m_YZ2zY[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2691607] Every piece of eqp lost by Russia will be difficult or impossible to replace. Every Ukraine loss is being replaced by weapons that are even newer and better.[/QUOTE]Russia gets million from selling oil and gas, they can use another third country (like Iran or so) to buy Chinese equipment and skip sanctions, will see what happens.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2691607]When you're being attacked by a bigger, more powerful opponent, not losing is the equivalent of a win. Hanging in there while the bully exhausts himself gives you a chance to strike back when the opportunity presents itself.
Ukraine didn't choose this war, Russia did. And Ukraine doesn't have the luxury of dictating terms and conditions. The best they can do is roll with the punch. And, with the support they're receiving from NATO and the West, they now have a fighting chance. Every piece of eqp lost by Russia will be difficult or impossible to replace. Every Ukraine loss is being replaced by weapons that are even newer and better.[/QUOTE]Jmsuttr, I was reading how a country like India buys a lot of military hardware from both Russia and the West. If countries see Russian military hardware underperforming in battle they might adjust their purchases. This war can't be good for future Russia's military exports.
India has always played a decent game of neutrality. However, Indian elites are definitely Western-oriented. Too many affluent Indian ex-pats in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, etc. The Indians are also watching this dance between China and Russia. Needless to say, China is India's rival economically and militarily in the region.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2691624]When your country is destroyed, sorry that is not a win. They will never get into NATO because of the corruption. Yes, both Russia and Ukraine are screwed. Especially they every day people.[/QUOTE]Much of Europe was destroyed in WW-II. It took years of investment and reconstruction, but it was rebuilt. Ukraine already has many commitments for such reconstruction efforts.
Besides, Ukraine has no choice in the matter. Russia is the one who chose the path of destruction, not Ukraine. All Ukrainians are doing is defending themselves as best they can. And, hopefully with Western weapons and support, they can kick the Russians out of most or all of their territory.
So, while I understand your general sentiment, unless you have another solution, the Ukrainians are doing the best they can with the shitty cards they've been dealt.
As far as NATO is concerned, I'm guessing Ukraine will be allowed to enter the EU and that some set of security guarantees will be crafted that don't necessarily depend on NATO membership. Besides, the primary reason for NATO's existence is to counterbalance threats from Russia. If the end result of this war is that Russia is severely weakened and can no longer pose a credible threat to Ukraine, then that problem will be substantially solved.
There are no good answers, obviously, because the best answer would be for the war to have never started. Since that's passed out of the realm of possibility, the only options left are those that deal squarely with the reality of the situation, such as it is.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2691629]Great post. I post about MDE because it is shit-hole, but you probably like the place. The difference between Kiev and MDE. 10-15 years ago Kiev was an amazing place, full of energy, great food, fun, amazing night-life, , great theater, good weather and many other wonderful things. Then corruption took over and unfortunately the country fell apart. I really doubt MDE was ever good, unless you have terribly low standards, you like bad service and even worse food. I can go on. If you like cheap sex was average girls and very curvy, then go. I am sure Bogota is much better, but both are very dangerous and full of drugs.[/QUOTE]In my response to Pedro M, the only reason I mentioned Medellin was because he (Pedro M) was complaining about "Stupid Shit" threads while actively posting in SS threads in both the Kiev and Medellin forums.
So my only reason for posting about MDE at all was for the purpose of pointing out Pedro M's blatant hypocrisy, nothing more.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2691712]For all you flyover country cowboys and Gotham shtetl crawlers, we hear ya.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AVf7m_YZ2zY[/URL][/QUOTE]Nuthin', zero, zip, nada.
Not sure what kind of delusional world you inhabit in which you think that a random YouTube video link, posted by you, would be of general interest.
Pray tell, is it a home video of Hitler celebrating his birthday in a bunker?
[QUOTE=Ringudor;2691716]Russia gets million from selling oil and gas, they can use another third country (like Iran or so) to buy Chinese equipment and skip sanctions, will see what happens.[/QUOTE]Sanctions evasion is absolutely happening, of that I have no doubt. But the question is what items are slipping through the cracks and whether it's happening on a large enough scale to make a material difference. It's also important to consider how far a country is willing to stick its neck out for Russia.
Take China, for example, while they talk about "partnership" with Russia, there's no evidence they're helping Russia militarily. And that's probably because that would risk their relationship with Europe and the West. And China needs the West much more than it needs Russia. Also, the kinds of items that would be important are pretty well tracked. And it's unlikely that advanced technology of value would be sold to either China or Iran. And, when it comes to military tech, Russia has generally been considered to be at a higher level, or at least on par, with China's. Not sure exactly what China has to offer, even if they were inclined to do so.
Since sanctions evasion happens away from the public eye, maybe the best indicator is what's happening inside Russia itself. From every report I'm seeing, Russia is running short of precision munitions and has had to shut down tank and missile factories. I agree that time will tell, although I don't think time is on Russia's side.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2691776]Jmsuttr, I was reading how a country like India buys a lot of military hardware from both Russia and the West. If countries see Russian military hardware underperforming in battle they might adjust their purchases. This war can't be good for future Russia's military exports.
India has always played a decent game of neutrality. However, Indian elites are definitely Western-oriented. Too many affluent Indian ex-pats in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, etc. The Indians are also watching this dance between China and Russia. Needless to say, China is India's rival economically and militarily in the region.[/QUOTE]One foundational fact is that India hates China, with a capital H. One reason they've cultivated a relationship with Russia is because that was seen as way to blunt China's regional influence.
Right now I think many countries, India included, are reevaluating their relationship with Russia. I'm sure India is happy, in the short term, to buy oil at a substantial discount. But I'm sure they're taking a look at long term scenarios.
And I absolutely agree that Indian generals and admirals must be positively horrified at the underperformance of Russian military eqp.
[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10770541/amp/Putin-cancer-operation-near-future-hand-power-hardline-ex-KGB-chief.html[/URL]
As I noted in the post title, this is as yet unconfirmed. But it's certainly something to watch for over the next few days or weeks.
[QUOTE=Ringudor;2691716]Russia gets million from selling oil and gas, they can use another third country (like Iran or so) to buy Chinese equipment and skip sanctions, will see what happens.[/QUOTE]What broke the USSR was military spending trying to match the US. With more sanctions, reduced international access to markets and through the roof military spending the people in Russia are not going to be be happy if the only outcome of this war is to get independence for a couple of breakaway republics that had already broken away.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2691624]When your country is destroyed, sorry that is not a win. They will never get into NATO because of the corruption. Yes, both Russia and Ukraine are screwed. Especially they every day people.[/QUOTE]On May 8 1945, many countries in Europe laid destroyed, and yet, it was a win. What does corruption or NATO have to do with the fact that Ukraine became a victim of an unprovoked aggression? Did Ukraine wake up one morning and decided: what a great day for getting destroyed? Or did Russia do it to them?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Should Ukraine capitulate in your opinion now that they're winning?
You are American and so do not belong in Europe about which you should not comment because you know nothing about it.
World War Two in Europe was a win for the USA who gave the least and took the most.
NATO is an American controlled mafia gang that is fueling the Ukrainian war, just as Sweden and Finland fueled Hitler. If Sweden and Finland carry through and join NATO and thereby allow Russia's Northern fleet to be blocked and Russia's early warning nuclear defences to be countered, nuclear war heads will rain down on New York and Washington.
Corruption has losers, in this case the ordinary Ukrainians. Zelensky, a guy who plays the piano in the nude, is the world's richest comedian.
Ukraine should surrender. Eastern Ukraine is being liberated and the last twelve years of Kiev war crimes are being ended. Western Ukraine will be another Kosovo, another US controlled Kosovo. Victoria NuLand said Fuck the EU. Fuck America as well. And fuck off as well.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2691980]On May 8 1945, many countries in Europe laid destroyed, and yet, it was a win. What does corruption or NATO have to do with the fact that Ukraine became a victim of an unprovoked aggression? Did Ukraine wake up one morning and decided: what a great day for getting destroyed? Or did Russia do it to them?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Should Ukraine capitulate in your opinion now that they're winning?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2691980]On May 8 1945, many countries in Europe laid destroyed, and yet, it was a win. What does corruption or NATO have to do with the fact that Ukraine became a victim of an unprovoked aggression? Did Ukraine wake up one morning and decided: what a great day for getting destroyed? Or did Russia do it to them?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say? Should Ukraine capitulate in your opinion now that they're winning?[/QUOTE]LOL. Ukraine is being ruthlessly used by rogue elements in the USA who think a,weakened Russia somehow helps the USA. On the contrary, USA would benefit from a strong Russia led bloc as an ally against China. USA certainly wasn't threatened by Russia after 1990,-but some people didn't get the message. Or maybe they did get a different message: no Russian enemy means budget cuts. Too shortsighted to see that China would justify plenty of budget for defense, so no need fur Russia as enemy.
Ukrainians are even stupider than USA to have allowed themselves to be used by these USA rogue elements. I say rogue, because according to reports in NYTimes and elsewhere, CIA has been warning for years that Ukraine is a red line for Russia and was advising against arming Ukraine. Even former President Bush the first (previously head of CIA) warned Ukrainians about nationalism in 1990. His son, of course, was the idiot (along with arch warmongers Rumsfeld and Cheney) who insisted on opening NATO for Ukraine,-which is how this mess started. Rogue elements are State and Defense Department. Defense because they never met a war they didn't like, as long as no real risk to USA. State because populated by nsive idealists. In other words, contrary to the natural assumption of a devious CIA plot, CIA are the responsible grownups in this case, and State Department is who has been running amok.
Ukraine is not going to win as long as Putin is alive, because Russia can just escalate to nukes. Furthermore, even without Putin, there is a deep bench of military types behind Putin who are just as hawkish about Ukraine being a red line, so nukes still possible without Putin. Though I don't expect nukes, with or without Putin. Rather, I expect total devastation of southern and eastern Ukraine.
So yes, capitulation is and always has been the best option. If they want, split off west Ukraine and call it Galicia and send all the nationalists there.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2692070]LOL. Ukraine is being ruthlessly used by rogue elements in the USA who think a,weakened Russia somehow helps the USA. On the contrary, USA would benefit from a strong Russia led bloc as an ally against China. USA certainly wasn't threatened by Russia after 1990,-but some people didn't get the message. Or maybe they did get a different message: no Russian enemy means budget cuts. Too shortsighted to see that China would justify plenty of budget for defense, so no need fur Russia as enemy.
Ukrainians are even stupider than USA to have allowed themselves to be used by these USA rogue elements. I say rogue, because according to reports in NYTimes and elsewhere, CIA has been warning for years that Ukraine is a red line for Russia and was advising against arming Ukraine. Even former President Bush the first (previously head of CIA) warned Ukrainians about nationalism in 1990. His son, of course, was the idiot (along with arch warmongers Rumsfeld and Cheney) who insisted on opening NATO for Ukraine,-which is how this mess started. Rogue elements are State and Defense Department. Defense because they never met a war they didn't like, as long as no real risk to USA. State because populated by nsive idealists. In other words, contrary to the natural assumption of a devious CIA plot, CIA are the responsible grownups in this case, and State Department is who has been running amok.
Ukraine is not going to win as long as Putin is alive, because Russia can just escalate to nukes. Furthermore, even without Putin, there is a deep bench of military types behind Putin who are just as hawkish about Ukraine being a red line, so nukes still possible without Putin. Though I don't expect nukes, with or without Putin. Rather, I expect total devastation of southern and eastern Ukraine..[/QUOTE]By far your best post ever. We disagree about a lot of thing, about Ukraine, but I completely agree with you on your assessment. Ukraine loses either way. A tie is not a win, if there is nothing left.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2692070]LOL. Ukraine is being ruthlessly used by rogue elements in the USA who think a,weakened Russia somehow helps the USA. On the contrary, USA would benefit from a strong Russia led bloc as an ally against China. USA certainly wasn't threatened by Russia after 1990,-but some people didn't get the message. Or maybe they did get a different message: no Russian enemy means budget cuts. Too shortsighted to see that China would justify plenty of budget for defense, so no need fur Russia as enemy.
Ukrainians are even stupider than USA to have allowed themselves to be used by these USA rogue elements. I say rogue, because according to reports in NYTimes and elsewhere, CIA has been warning for years that Ukraine is a red line for Russia and was advising against arming Ukraine. Even former President Bush the first (previously head of CIA) warned Ukrainians about nationalism in 1990. His son, of course, was the idiot (along with arch warmongers Rumsfeld and Cheney) who insisted on opening NATO for Ukraine,-which is how this mess started. Rogue elements are State and Defense Department. Defense because they never met a war they didn't like, as long as no real risk to USA. State because populated by nsive idealists. In other words, contrary to the natural assumption of a devious CIA plot, CIA are the responsible grownups in this case, and State Department is who has been running amok..[/QUOTE]You need to include the power hungry Dems that used the Ukraine to gin up fake scandals in your history of this sad event.
As a child of the Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, I know how complex the history of that area is.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2692070]LOL. Ukraine is being ruthlessly used by rogue elements in the USA who think a,weakened Russia somehow helps the USA. On the contrary, USA would benefit from a strong Russia led bloc as an ally against China. USA certainly wasn't threatened by Russia after 1990,-but some people didn't get the message. Or maybe they did get a different message: no Russian enemy means budget cuts. Too shortsighted to see that China would justify plenty of budget for defense, so no need fur Russia as enemy.
Ukrainians are even stupider than USA to have allowed themselves to be used by these USA rogue elements. I say rogue, because according to reports in NYTimes and elsewhere, CIA has been warning for years that Ukraine is a red line for Russia and was advising against arming Ukraine. Even former President Bush the first (previously head of CIA) warned Ukrainians about nationalism in 1990. His son, of course, was the idiot (along with arch warmongers Rumsfeld and Cheney) who insisted on opening NATO for Ukraine,-which is how this mess started. Rogue elements are State and Defense Department. Defense because they never met a war they didn't like, as long as no real risk to USA. State because populated by nsive idealists. In other words, contrary to the natural assumption of a devious CIA plot, CIA are the responsible grownups in this case, and State Department is who has been running amok.[/QUOTE]Is that they become so enamored of their own superior knowledge and insight that they have blinders when it comes to anything that might cast doubt on their conclusions. I don't claim to be a geopolitical expert, but I do have a keen eye for when cherry-picking of agreeable facts, and failing to acknowledge (or look for) disagreeable facts, is going on.
With respect to pre-Feb 24th realities, all of that was mooted by Russia's invasion. With that single act Putin took a situation that was many shades of gray and turned it into one that's starkly black and white. In Europe, the West, and arguably much of the world, Ukraine is perceived as the victim and Russia, personified in Putin, as the villain and aggressor.
I use the word "personified" because it's particularly apt, as Putin's leadership is as much a cult of personality as anything else. But that becomes problematic when the leader weakens or fails. Putin's health is clearly failing, as several videos released by Russian media have shown. And his military is desperately trying to avoid failure and gin up something that can be proclaimed as a victory, esp by the symbolic date of May 9th.
If Putin dies, or becomes unable to function, it's your assumption that another hard-liner will seamlessly take over and continue as before. I would argue that, in a "Royal Court" environment in which Putin has ruthlessly eliminated and suppressed any potential rival, it's equally likely that a bloodbath could break out as possible successors fight among each other. And there's also the question of how well, in a population conditioned to revere and idolize (only) Putin, any successor would be accepted. Any successive leader will be viewed, and evaluated, through Putin-colored glasses.
BTW, it's also worth noting that some strange shit is going on in Russia:
[URL]https://pjmedia.com/vodkapundit/2022/04/28/what-the-hell-is-going-on-in-russia-n1593602[/URL]
Events like mysterious fires and bridge collapses indicate either an extraordinary level of bad luck (or incompetence?) or perhaps an ongoing campaign of sabotage by either internal or external actors. Whatever the explanation, Mother Russia is experiencing a significant case of indigestion. I'm not making any specific predictions, simply observing that any analysis that ignores internal Russian difficulties is flawed.
Equally flawed is the assumption that Putin's army is capable of a conventional military victory, or would be able to effectively hold any territory they might conquer. All the evidence from the battlefield indicates that any gains made by Russia have come at a huge cost in men and equipment. That doesn't mean Ukraine isn't paying a high price, but they're being backstopped and replenished by the West, while Russia remains isolated. So, if a conventional victory proves to be out of reach, nukes are arguably one of the few (only?) cards Putin has left. One possible scenario would be a low-yield strike at a strategic target. But is such a move possible in the context of a "special operation" or would Putin first need to declare war and move toward full mobilization? And would such a move cost Russia the last shred of support or neutrality by countries like China and India?
I don't pretend to know the answers to all the above questions, or the scores of additional variables (known and unknown) that undoubtedly exist. All I know is that most pundits and prognosticators, like those who predicted a quick capitulation by Ukraine, have been proven embarrassingly wrong. Reality tends to play by her own rules.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2692013]You are American and so do not belong in Europe about which you should not comment because you know nothing about it.
World War Two in Europe was a win for the USA who gave the least and took the most.
NATO is an American controlled mafia gang that is fueling the Ukrainian war, just as Sweden and Finland fueled Hitler. If Sweden and Finland carry through and join NATO and thereby allow Russia's Northern fleet to be blocked and Russia's early warning nuclear defences to be countered, nuclear war heads will rain down on New York and Washington.
Corruption has losers, in this case the ordinary Ukrainians. Zelensky, a guy who plays the piano in the nude, is the world's richest comedian.
Ukraine should surrender. Eastern Ukraine is being liberated and the last twelve years of Kiev war crimes are being ended. Western Ukraine will be another Kosovo, another US controlled Kosovo. Victoria NuLand said Fuck the EU. Fuck America as well. And fuck off as well.[/QUOTE]Pedro, you have to be a devout Marxist. You've obviously been sucking down Red Bull all your life.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2692013]You are American and so do not belong in Europe about which you should not comment because you know nothing about it.
World War Two in Europe was a win for the USA who gave the least and took the most.
NATO is an American controlled mafia gang that is fueling the Ukrainian war, just as Sweden and Finland fueled Hitler. If Sweden and Finland carry through and join NATO and thereby allow Russia's Northern fleet to be blocked and Russia's early warning nuclear defences to be countered, nuclear war heads will rain down on New York and Washington.
Corruption has losers, in this case the ordinary Ukrainians. Zelensky, a guy who plays the piano in the nude, is the world's richest comedian..[/QUOTE]If Finland and Sweden join NATO, it's as a direct result of Putin's narcissistic stupidity. He's going to rattle his nuclear saber, no matter what, but that's being seen as a sign of desperation and weakness.
Finland and Sweden are therefore giving LilliPutin the middle finger and calling his bluff. It seems to me they're betting that Vlad's trembling finger won't be able to find the red button, much less push it. And, even if he is a deranged and suicidal psychopath, it's unlikely that everyone in the launch chain of command will be willing to follow him off the nuclear cliff. It's just as likely that someone will give him a classic Stalin-style retirement.
Oh, and about corruption having losers, that's a perfect description of Putin, the uber-kleptocrat, and how he's raped his own country and population. He's losing in every conceivable way someone can lose. And, when he finally crashes and burns, it will be EPIC!
P.S. You know what else will be fun to watch? With all the new NATO bases and European deployments, there are going to be a lot of American soldiers shacking up with and shagging the local women. So that means, in about 9 months to a year, we should start seeing a bumper crop of Finnish-American, Swedish-American, and Baltic-American babies. Yep, thanks to Comrade Putin, NATO is enlarging and is stronger than ever.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2692070]LOL. Ukraine is being ruthlessly used by rogue elements in the USA who think a,weakened Russia somehow helps the USA. On the contrary, USA would benefit from a strong Russia led bloc as an ally against China. USA certainly wasn't threatened by Russia after 1990,-but some people didn't get the message. Or maybe they did get a different message: no Russian enemy means budget cuts. Too shortsighted to see that China would justify plenty of budget for defense, so no need fur Russia as enemy.[/QUOTE]Sure, by all means. Rogue elements. Been missing your bullshit geopolitical word salad lately.
What gives? New instructions from the Internet Research Agency coming in?
Shit, you people are relentless.
Transparent too.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2692170]Pedro, you have to be a devout Marxist.[/QUOTE]Devout Moron more like it.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2692170]Pedro, you have to be a devout Marxist. You've obviously been sucking down Red Bull all your life.[/QUOTE]I have never had a Red Bull in my life and I don't intend to ever have one. I see your Nazi pals in the steelworks are surrendering and the women are predictably giving damning testimony about their captives.
As this is a European thread, you and XPartan should really FK off as you have zilch to contribute, being Americans and therefore being stupid.
I am very busy these days. I have a choice of three local providers. I am amazed prices have not dropped, what with all these Ukrainian hookers fleeing West.
I posted in AW about the Johnny Depp-Amber Heard gig. Heard crapping in the bed, real American class. I find it hard to get around the psychologist, Dr Curry, American, good looking (gym rat?) and intelligent. I guess there's always one.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2692146]Is that they become so enamored of their own superior knowledge and insight that they have blinders when it comes to anything that might cast doubt on their conclusions. I don't claim to be a geopolitical expert, but I do have a keen eye for when cherry-picking of agreeable facts, and failing to acknowledge (or look for) disagreeable facts, is going on.[/QUOTE]What is going on is the world is changing. Pakistan has seen its biggest ever protests against the recent US coup where over 70% of the Cabinet are on bail on corruption charges. The future is a fatwa against Americans, all Americans, scalping and so on, low tech as well as Hi tech, al of which the Pentagon thinks they have planned for.
You mention China and India like they were tiny places. The Great Satan aka USA is now interested in human rights in India (not Saudi) because of Russia. The answer is an all out fatwa on America and Americans. Fat, lazy, stupid and they even defecate in bed, something a dog would not do.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2692458]What is going on is the world is changing. Pakistan has seen its biggest ever protests against the recent US coup where over 70% of the Cabinet are on bail on corruption charges. The future is a fatwa against Americans, all Americans, scalping and so on, low tech as well as Hi tech, al of which the Pentagon thinks they have planned for.
You mention China and India like they were tiny places. The Great Satan aka USA is now interested in human rights in India (not Saudi) because of Russia. The answer is an all out fatwa on America and Americans. Fat, lazy, stupid and they even defecate in bed, something a dog would not do.[/QUOTE]You mention these three countries as though they were bastions of strength, when the opposite is true. Pakistan, India, and China are constantly jockeying for position against each other but those regional struggles are largely irrelevant to the rest of the world. The more they fight, undercut, and devour each other, the less they can make mischief for anyone else.
As far as China is concerned, their zero-covid strategy has backfired in a major way and, having already locked down Shanghai, they're now on the cusp of locking down Beijing. Their biggest problem will be keeping the population employed and fed, which means they'll need to be keenly inwardly focused. And one important point about China's current travails is that it makes them even more dependent on the West. That means their "partnership" with Russia is likely to be more talk than action.
So, in contrast to your delusional fantasies about how the world is changing, all the facts and evidence show that America and the West are in the ascendancy; China, India, and Pakistan are stuck in the mud; and Russia is in a death-spiral. As far as your wet-dream of a fatwa against Americans is concerned, the mouse may proclaim a fatwa against the eagle, to which the eagle responds by calmly and confidently sharpening its talons.
BTW, as far as the actions of any particular individual is concerned, I really couldn't give two shits (in your bed). After all, I don't judge all Russians by Putin's bizarre habit of bathing in deer antler blood (something even a dog would shun).
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2692552]As far as China is concerned, their zero-covid strategy has backfired in a major way and, having already locked down Shanghai, they're now on the cusp of locking down Beijing. Their biggest problem will be keeping the population employed and fed, which means they'll need to be keenly inwardly focused. And one important point about China's current travails is that it makes them even more dependent on the West. That means their "partnership" with Russia is likely to be more talk than action..[/QUOTE]China is on the precipice of a economic crash or a long, cyclical stagnation. All of the years of overinvestment in real estate and infrastructure is catching up with them. The Xi government is kicking the can down the road until after he is given another five year term this year. Instead of stepping down after ten years, Xi wants to be Emperor for Life. Expect the small cracks to turn into big cracks after the re-coronation.
The China cheerleaders on social media say that the Chinese government is so smart and so firmly in control that they can navigate around a deep recession and just keep growing. It's never been done in the history of global economics. Economic cycles are not something that are only prone for Western economies. Even the Soviet Union suffered from economic cycles.
The fear is that years and years of hitting the economic accelerator at every sign of weakness had set the tables for a big crash or a long stagnation similar to Japan after its economic boom.
I believe China with its large economy will find a way to keep everyone fed, but the economic strain will test the CCP's hold on the people.
[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/uii5cd/as_the_martial_law_algorithm_was_not_activated/[/URL]
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1521854118842753025?t=ez22YMgmKdaFm7RBjx6cLQ&s=09[/URL]
Definitely something to watch over the next week since many are talking about the likelihood of a formal declaration of war by Russia on that date. If a significant number of soldiers, sailors, and airmen, exercise their option to leave, it'll be interesting to see how the Kremlin responds. From all accounts, morale among Russian troops in Ukraine is pretty low. Even if this information isn't allowed to be publicly discussed, I'm sure it gets around via the grapevine that runs throughout most military forces.
If Russia declares war and invokes a full mobilization of national resources, there will be many, like our resident pro-Russia shills, who will stress only the (potential) positives while ignoring the (very likely) negatives. Interesting times!
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2692851]China is on the precipice of a economic crash or a long, cyclical stagnation. All of the years of overinvestment in real estate and infrastructure is catching up with them. The Xi government is kicking the can down the road until after he is given another five year term this year. Instead of stepping down after ten years, Xi wants to be Emperor for Life. Expect the small cracks to turn into big cracks after the re-coronation.
The China cheerleaders on social media say that the Chinese government is so smart and so firmly in control that they can navigate around a deep recession and just keep growing. It's never been done in the history of global economics. Economic cycles are not something that are only prone for Western economies. Even the Soviet Union suffered from economic cycles.
The fear is that years and years of hitting the economic accelerator at every sign of weakness had set the tables for a big crash or a long stagnation similar to Japan after its economic boom.
I believe China with its large economy will find a way to keep everyone fed, but the economic strain will test the CCP's hold on the people.[/QUOTE]Both Russia and China, viewed in a long-term and macro sense, are trending in a negative direction. Both face huge demographic headwinds from declining birthrates that are unlikely to be alleviated by immigration, or other means, for years to come (if ever). China's problem is worse because of the "one child" policy that wasn't changed until much too late. Russia's problem was less acute but now has been worsened because Russia is unlikely to be attractive to immigrants as long as their economy suffers under sanctions or reparations. But Russia, with a smaller population, has less of a built-in buffer, and so may feel the effects sooner than China. Add to that the brain drain, and exodus of younger Russians, and the Kremlin is facing a major societal challenge.
Besides the demographic issues, both economies are full of smoke and mirrors and are opaque to any attempt to realistically analyze them. For example, even though Hong Kong has now been pretty much fully assimilated by China, its economic and financial reporting systems are still a product of pre-assimilation times. HK reported a 4% decrease in GDP in Q1 2022 due to COVID lockdowns. China, however, reported a 4. 8% increase over the same period, even though their COVID lockdowns have arguably been more severe and disruptive. No matter how bad things get, China will never report a negative GDP number. That would go against their "CCP brings prosperity" narrative and would pop Comrade Xi's bubble of competent leadership. Speaking of bubbles popping, the one most likely to go soon is the Ponzi scheme that is the China property market. All of China's recent moves have been to engineer a slow deflation and soft landing. I highly doubt that will happen, so Xi will do everything to kick the can down the road until he's elected to an unprecedented 3rd term. At that point, he'll become the new Mao and will try to consolidate his hold on power and become President for life. Whether that works, or for how long it works, will be interesting to watch. China is still China, but it's not Mao's China anymore.
The bottom-line is that both China and Russia will keep doing the same dysfunctional things that got them into their current predicaments. And that's why I laugh whenever I hear someone touting their partnership! Yeah, sure, they're partners in the same way one drowning person grabs onto another to keep themselves afloat. Unless one of them is a super-strong swimmer and experienced lifeguard, they're more likely to pull each other under.
And, guess what, neither Russia nor China is a super-strong, experienced lifeguard.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2693364]Both Russia and China, viewed in a long-term and macro sense, are trending in a negative direction. Both face huge demographic headwinds from declining birthrates that are unlikely to be alleviated by immigration, or other means, for years to come (if ever). China's problem is worse because of the "one child" policy that wasn't changed until much too late. Russia's problem was less acute but now has been worsened because Russia is unlikely to be attractive to immigrants as long as their economy suffers under sanctions or reparations. But Russia, with a smaller population, has less of a built-in buffer, and so may feel the effects sooner than China. Add to that the brain drain, and exodus of younger Russians, and the Kremlin is facing a major societal challenge.[/QUOTE]Comrade Jmsuttr (wink), I suspect your post will generate the typical response that the United States economy and dollar are a house of cards. This even though you and I have presented the well-established academic view that having a reserve currency is a burden.
The real estate market in the United States is in a mini-bubble, but this is mostly driven by supply shortages. First, we weren't building enough houses after the 2008-2009 crash. Second, COVID slowed down real estate construction and materials. Outside a few small, desirable areas where foreigners flock, we don't have empty condo buildings. There is far less speculation than what we experienced in the 2000's.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2693560]Comrade Jmsuttr (wink), I suspect your post will generate the typical response that the United States economy and dollar are a house of cards. This even though you and I have presented the well-established academic view that having a reserve currency is a burden.
The real estate market in the United States is in a mini-bubble, but this is mostly driven by supply shortages. First, we weren't building enough houses after the 2008-2009 crash. Second, COVID slowed down real estate construction and materials. Outside a few small, desirable areas where foreigners flock, we don't have empty condo buildings. There is far less speculation than what we experienced in the 2000's.[/QUOTE]I completely agree that the US isn't free of problems, and neither is the EU. But one big difference is the existence of a sizeable private sector with the incentive to find a way to profit from imbalances and govt mistakes. It may take a recession, or even a depression, but the errors and problems will eventually wash themselves out of the system. Also, most Western countries tend to wash out the politicians they hold responsible for the mismanagement. And one other relevant point is that in the EU and US we don't make a habit of putting such private investors in jail, as long as they keep their activities legal and above-board.
Until the invasion happened, I would have included Russia in the list of generally investable markets. Even though the problem of corruption and kleptocracy existed, many corporations and investors had figured out how to navigate those waters. But Putin changed everything and now the Russian economy has zero upside and nearly unlimited downside. Here's a current assessment from Al-Jazeera:
[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/5/5/the-kremlin-blinks-first-in-the-geo-economic-war-over-ukraine[/URL]
China, however, has systemic problems that stem from the CCP's need to maintain a narrative that supports Xi's "Mandate of Heaven" irrespective of real economic conditions. And that's reflected in their need to control everything, from capital flows to property sales to stock market levels. But central control is a practical impossibility in an environment where a near-infinite number of variables means that unintended consequences will almost certainly occur. In a world experiencing generally positive growth a lot of those problems never break above the surface. But, like a Ponzi scheme that runs out of new money, at some point the chickens come home to roost. It's hard to know exactly where China's stall-speed point is, since everything is so opaque and they have many ways to keep bad news under wraps. It's my sense that, like the proverbial Minsky Moment, it'll be something that seems relatively small that'll trigger the next crisis.
Oh yes, and all the "whataboutism" finger-pointing at the US won't change a thing about the negative direction, and likely hard landing, of the Russian and Chinese economies.
[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/ukca7a/fear_of_mobilization_russians_are_leaving_the/[/URL]
Why? Because Putin is killing Russia's present, just like he's already killed Russia's future.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2693638]China, however, has systemic problems that stem from the CCP's need to maintain a narrative that supports Xi's "Mandate of Heaven" irrespective of real economic conditions. And that's reflected in their need to control everything, from capital flows to property sales to stock market levels. But central control is a practical impossibility in an environment where a near-infinite number of variables means that unintended consequences will almost certainly occur. In a world experiencing generally positive growth a lot of those problems never break above the surface. But, like a Ponzi scheme that runs out of new money, at some point the chickens come home to roost. It's hard to know exactly where China's stall-speed point is, since everything is so opaque and they have many ways to keep bad news under wraps. It's my sense that, like the proverbial Minsky Moment, it'll be something that seems relatively small that'll trigger the next crisis.
Oh yes, and all the "whataboutism" finger-pointing at the US won't change a thing about the negative direction, and likely hard landing, of the Russian and Chinese economies.[/QUOTE]China's economic miracle over the last thirty plus years is nothing but astounding. As you mention, the Chinese government has had an overly-controlling hand on the economy. Market reforms and capitalism are what brought China prosperity. Xi, however, has arrogantly brought back more government control and intervention in the economy to ride out the rough patch.
Many think of economics as some kind of decadent and imperialistic Anglo-American construct. For those who study it, they know its kind of like the gravity of human commerce. Governments can't avoid the inevitable forces of economics.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2694703]China's economic miracle over the last thirty plus years is nothing but astounding. As you mention, the Chinese government has had an overly-controlling hand on the economy. Market reforms and capitalism are what brought China prosperity. Xi, however, has arrogantly brought back more government control and intervention in the economy to ride out the rough patch.
Many think of economics as some kind of decadent and imperialistic Anglo-American construct. For those who study it, they know its kind of like the gravity of human commerce. Governments can't avoid the inevitable forces of economics.[/QUOTE]When a farmer gives a blacksmith meat, milk, or crops, in exchange for a new plow, that's economics. Individual activity, no matter what gobbledygook and complicated intermediate steps are inserted, remains the foundation or "the gravity of human commerce," as you put it. It's fascinating to me that "experts" try to pretend it's anything more than a social science. If it was truly a hard science, like physics, economic prognosticators wouldn't have such a dismal track record for their predictions.
China's economic miracle is undeniable, but the most significant factors that made it possible have either faded or are altogether gone. Some of that is due to natural trends, such as demographic changes (aging, migration to cities, low birthrate, etc.), some of that is due to changes to Deng-era policies, and some of that is due to reactions from foreign countries and companies as they wake up to the true nature of China's leadership.
Low-cost production in Asia has been moving out of China to places like Vietnam, Indonesia, Cambodia, etc. Supply-chain sensitive products have been moving out since the institution of Trump's tariffs, further exacerbated by pandemic lockdowns and disruptions that continue to this day. Hong Kong, once viewed as a safer way to have a piece of the Chinese market, is now just another CCP-controlled metropolis.
In other words, the tide of positive factors and capital flows that once masked all of the bubbles and economic fragilities of China is steadily going out. Xi is like a child trying to use a toy shovel to keep the water on the beach, only to see every attempt end with the water draining into the sand. The end result is that China is stuck in a middle-income trap, from which there is no easy or short-term solution, if ever.
[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2021-09-06/china-s-common-prosperity-goal-ends-in-a-middle-income-trap[/URL]#.
Anyone who buys into the current crop of China hype would do well to remember the lessons of 1980's Japan. At that time it was Japan that was experiencing "to the moon" growth and was widely expected to supplant the US as the dominant economic power. And China? At that time China hardly merited a second thought. With 20-20 hindsight we now see how drastically such hype can collapse. Luckily for Japan, they managed to grow wealthy enough, on a per capita basis, to have reached escape velocity from the middle income trap. China is unlikely to be so fortunate. Demographic wheels grind slowly, even if other factors are favorable. China's biggest problem is that their leaders, intentionally or unintentionally, have been removing or undermining many of the favorable factors. And, just as the USSR's centrally-planned economy was opaque to outside observers and projected strength, when the dam cracks and breaks it tends to happen suddenly.
IMHO, one of the reasons China has been relatively subdued with respect to the Russia-Ukraine war, offering mostly only token support, is because they know how much is currently on their plate and can't afford to be distracted or waste resources.
To sum up all of the above, because the individual is at the heart of economics, systems that don't value both the individual and that individual's rights (like Russia, the USSR, or the CCP) will be constantly fighting against the tide and, sooner or later, will inevitably fail.
[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991[/URL]
Q: How does a country that is rich in natural resources, and had a high level of positive potential, turn itself into an economic disaster?
A: Flawed culture + faulty leadership.
P.S. The article also makes some good points as to why countries like India and China, no matter what kind of "help" they may offer, won't be enough to save Russia from its self-destructive path.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2697795][URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991[/URL]
Q: How does a country that is rich in natural resources, and had a high level of positive potential, turn itself into an economic disaster?
A: Flawed culture + faulty leadership.
P.S. The article also makes some good points as to why countries like India and China, no matter what kind of "help" they may offer, won't be enough to save Russia from its self-destructive path.[/QUOTE]A lot can change quickly. Here's one scenario that would greatly benefit Russia and the globe for that matter.
- Overthrow Putin.
- Promise to make nice.
- Turn on the spigots.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2698053]- Overthrow Putin[/QUOTE]First, whether Putin's overthrow would change things depends on who replaces him. A like-for-like swap is unlikely to have much effect. And, as things stand right now, if he's removed (or dies) it's more probable he'd be replaced by a hawkish nationalist rather than a reformer.
After decades of Putin's autocratic and kleptocratic rule, he's either eliminated or driven out anyone who might be a credible reformer. And even high-profile opposition figures, like Navalny, are still cut from the same Moscow-Saint Petersburg, elite-centric, ethnic-Russian nationalist cloth. One of the reasons Russia seems (IMO) doomed to decades of darkness is that there doesn't appear to be anyone, or any credible movement, capable of leading them toward a different path. And it's my sense that the national mindset has been so conditioned by Putinism that they're incapable, at least at this point in time, of changing course. A rough analogy would be that of an addict who needs to hit rock bottom, with all their lies exposed and rationalizations destroyed, as an essential step toward rebuilding.
[QUOTE]- Promise to make nice.[/QUOTE]Second, nobody believes or trusts Russia anymore. Which means promises would be insufficient and some kind of guarantee regime would need to be crafted. I have no idea what kind of guarantees would be deemed sufficient by Ukraine and at-risk countries like Poland, the Baltics, etc. While I try to "never say never," achieving a workable level of trust may prove to be an impossible task, at least in the near-to-medium term.
[QUOTE]- Turn on the spigots.[/QUOTE]Third, while I agree this would be a positive step, it'll be complicated by the need to garnish all or part of the proceeds from energy sales to pay reparations. Lots of moving parts involved and the devil will be in the details.
To sum up, what Russia needs is a radical roots-up reformation. And even with that it'll be decades before any semblance of "normal" relations will return. Sadly, I don't see the necessary antecedent conditions for such a change. To me it seems more likely that Russia, after full or partial defeat in Ukraine, will retreat into isolation, continue on the path of belligerence and NATO-West blaming and, even though exposed as a (conventional) paper tiger, remain dangerous by virtue of their nuclear capability.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2697795][URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2022/3/4/russias-looming-economic-crisis-will-be-worse-than-1991[/URL][/QUOTE]The problem with this article is it's already 2-month old. Russia has proved that it's capable of weathering the storm for the time being.
For as long as Europe is buying, Russia will be OK. Not fine, but OK. They're getting a billion per day, that's enough to keep them going. Now with time, as Europe is buying less and less, things will get tougher, but that can take up to a couple of years.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2697795]
Q: How does a country that is rich in natural resources, and had a high level of positive potential, turn itself into an economic disaster?
A: Flawed culture + faulty leadership..[/QUOTE]Flawed culture. Yes, with faulty leadership being inevitable effect. All leaders are faulty, but in a democracy they don't usually rule too long (with some exceptions, which are balanced by longstanding democratic traditions). But in the Russian tradition, you can take the best of them and watch them desperately try to stick to power no matter what, descending and degrading into madness and absolutism, unless they're murdered along the way.
Nothing will ever change in Russia unless there is a bulletproof Constitutional and enforcement mechanism prescribing and detailing democratic rotation of power.
If Putin left in 2008, as he was supposed to according to the Constitution, he would've been remembered as one of the greatest leaders ever. He wouldn't have deserved it, but that's another story.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2698268]The problem with this article is it's already 2-month old. Russia has proved that it's capable of weathering the storm for the time being.
For as long as Europe is buying, Russia will be OK. Not fine, but OK. They're getting a billion per day, that's enough to keep them going. Now with time, as Europe is buying less and less, things will get tougher, but that can take up to a couple of years.
Flawed culture. Yes, with faulty leadership being inevitable effect. All leaders are faulty, but in a democracy they don't usually rule too long (with some exceptions, which are balanced by longstanding democratic traditions). But in the Russian tradition, you can take the best of them and watch them desperately try to stick to power no matter what, descending and degrading into madness and absolutism, unless they're murdered along the way.
Nothing will ever change in Russia unless there is a bulletproof Constitutional and enforcement mechanism prescribing and detailing democratic rotation of power.
If Putin left in 2008, as he was supposed to according to the Constitution, he would've been remembered as one of the greatest leaders ever. He wouldn't have deserved it, but that's another story.[/QUOTE]Obviously Russia is bigger, with more resources in reserve, and is dealing with a sanctions regime that is recent and still evolving. Oh yes, and they have nukes. But those differences, and I'm sure more could be named, don't negate the usefulness of the analogy.
Venezuela and Russia are both resource-rich countries, yet both depend heavily on foreign companies to provide the technology and expertise to extract those resources. Those essential companies have, due to sanctions and other reasons, mostly abandoned Venezuela, and the same is happening to Russia. From everything I've read, Venezuela's energy industry is limping along. And they don't have to deal with issues like Siberian winters. So the usefulness of the analogy is that it highlights areas to watch, like whether Russia's oil and gas industries will suffer similar difficulties and declines.
Also, Venezuela continues to sell oil but is constrained by sanctions and is in a weakened bargaining position when buyers like China and India demand discounts. And, whatever funds they get for their oil can only be used to purchase non-sanctioned goods and services. Obviously there's a constant dance to evade the sanctions, but the fact that Venezuela is an economic basket-case is pretty good evidence that the years of isolation have taken their toll.
Has Russia fully arrived at a Venezuela-like state yet? Of course not, and my earlier post wasn't intended to imply or argue that they have, only that their paths and trajectories are similar. Russia is only at the early stages of the process that Venezuela has been burdened with for years and, being bigger and richer to begin with, has more "fat" to burn through before needing to consume muscle and bone. But, with a brain-drain of their brightest and best, and no replenishment from outside, they are truly eating their own seed corn.
About Europe buying Russian oil and gas, that's certainly the near-term scenario but, now that everyone understands what it means to be at the mercy of Russia's "weaponized" energy policy, every European country is looking for alternate supply wherever they can find it. Italy's recent deals with Azerbaijan and Algeria are examples of this. So, while the wheels may turn slowly in some circles, they're still all turning in a direction that's not favorable to Russia and will result in further isolation.
And yes, Russia gets billions for its oil and gas. That sounds great but, because of sanctions they're limited as to what they can do with that money. They can't buy needed semiconductors, as just one example, and I recently read that they're having to cannibalize washing machines to repurpose some of the chips for military use. That certainly doesn't sound like an efficient or sustainable practice. Maybe they should get help from Cuban mechanics. After all, in Havana they've figured out how to keep cars from the 40's and 50's on the road.
How a country declines, by virtue of its own flaws + external sanctions and pressures + faulty leadership, is a process rather than an event. In terms of the progress of that process, two months is nothing. What's relevant is the trajectory, and Russia is clearly trending in a downward, Venezuela-like, direction. With every passing day I see more negative straws piling on the back of the camel and I see nothing on the horizon to suggest any relief or change in the landscape.
Russia has a deep and wide culture. The USA has none, nada.
Venezuela's problems are exasperated by the USA stealing (freezing etc) its financial and other resources.
The rouble is strong, the German economy is in the toilet, all for obeying the USA and its puppets.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2698268] American bullshit bla bla, some points responded to for any non American who has a brain [/QUOTE]
This is a recent short video clip where Mearsheimer clearly explains the extreme danger of current USA policy. To summarize, there are 2 conditions under which Russia will use nukes: (1) someone uses nukes against Russia first; (2) Russia faces threat to its existence. "Threat to existence" is a fuzzy concept, but that is exactly what the USA cheerleaders seems to be hinting at. In particular, humiliating external military defeat that might lead to internal political disintegration sounds like "threat to existence". If you care about Ukraine, then you cannot be hoping for humiliating Russian defeat because of the possibility this causes escalation to nukes. Painful as it will be to the Ukrainians, they need to accept any reasonable settlement with Russia. Which probably means more of south and east Ukraine under Russian control that before.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9YOETL3ICc[/URL]
Russia has clearly shown they don't care about world opinion, so world opinion will not deter them from using nukes.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2698167]To me it seems more likely that Russia, after full or partial defeat in Ukraine, will retreat into isolation, continue on the path of belligerence and NATO-West blaming and, even though exposed as a (conventional) paper tiger, remain dangerous by virtue of their nuclear capability.[/QUOTE]Yes, that's the most likely outcome, as cooler heads have been predicting all along, which is why they warned against trying to pull Ukraine into the Western orbit and thus provoke this war. In other words, Russia with be more like North Korea than before, a thorn in the side of the USA and Western Europe and others. Not so crazy and isolated as North Korea, but vastly more dangerous and with enough of an economy and valuable natural resources to cause far more mischief than North Korea. Note that 60+ years of isolation and sanctions have done nothing to break North Korea's (or Cuba's) defiance of the USA.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2698167]First, whether Putin's overthrow would change things depends on who replaces him. A like-for-like swap is unlikely to have much effect. And, as things stand right now, if he's removed (or dies) it's more probable he'd be replaced by a hawkish nationalist rather than a reformer.
.....................................................
After decades of Putin's autocratic and kleptocratic rule, he's either eliminated or driven out anyone who might be a credible reformer. And even high-profile opposition figures, like Navalny, are still cut from the same Moscow-Saint Petersburg, elite-centric, ethnic-Russian nationalist cloth. One of the reasons Russia seems (IMO) doomed to decades of darkness is that there doesn't appear to be anyone, or any credible movement, capable of leading them toward a different path. And it's my sense that the national mindset has been so conditioned by Putinism that they're incapable, at least at this point in time, of changing course. A rough analogy would be that of an addict who needs to hit rock bottom, with all their lies exposed and rationalizations destroyed, as an essential step toward rebuilding..[/QUOTE]This is all very likely, but I'm a bit more optimistic. A Russian nationalist can politically benefit for a few years from putting things back together, stopping the carnage and getting the economy going again.
I think what extreme nationalist leaders like Putin (and Hitler) benefited from was taking over in a period of chaos. There is only one direction to go from chaos and that is up. Interestingly if you look at crude oil price charts starting from Putin's rise to power in 1999, you will see oil at $20 per barrel rising virtually unstoppable to a price of over $100 per barrel in 2014. I also don't think that the invasion of the Ukraine and the rapid rise in oil prices in 2021 are unconnected events.
Getting back to the question of a new Russian leader. There is certainly a real fear that Russia will be in some form of constant belligerency with NATO and the West. I don't think Russian institutions have improved since 1992. Russian institutions certainly don't appear immediately ready to try another attempt at real democratic progress and free market economics.
My hope is time. The more time that passes from the disintegration of the Soviet Union thirty years ago the more Russia will be able to move forward. Hitler launched his war of aggression twenty years after World War II. Many Germans and certainly the German military were all too willing to avenge the defeat of WWI. The difference is older Russians familiar and somewhat satisfied with life under the Soviets is slowly giving way to younger and more modern Russians. Putin himself is a relic of the Soviet system.
The key is to find a way around a humiliating Russian defeat in the Ukraine or at least the appearance of such. Russian reparations are problematic. I'm also not so sure the Ukrainians will now be satisfied with a draw. I'm not convinced the Biden Administration will be adept at managing the peace.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2698333]Russia has a deep and wide culture. The USA has none, nada.
Venezuela's problems are exasperated by the USA stealing (freezing etc) its financial and other resources.
The rouble is strong, the German economy is in the toilet, all for obeying the USA and its puppets.[/QUOTE]Comrade, you seem to live in a parallel universe.
The United States is a 250 year-old amalgamation of cultures that has the eyes and ears of the world.
Russian culture while amazing hasn't really evolved in 250 years. There is an obvious lack of modernity hindered by a long, long love-hate relationship with the West.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2698469]My hope is time. The more time that passes from the disintegration of the Soviet Union thirty years ago the more Russia will be able to move forward. Hitler launched his war of aggression twenty years after World War II. Many Germans and certainly the German military were all too willing to avenge the defeat of WWI. The difference is older Russians familiar and somewhat satisfied with life under the Soviets is slowly giving way to younger and more modern Russians. Putin himself is a relic of the Soviet system.[/QUOTE]I couldn't agree more.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2698333]Russia has a deep and wide culture. The USA has none, nada.
Venezuela's problems are exasperated by the USA stealing (freezing etc) its financial and other resources.
The rouble is strong, the German economy is in the toilet, all for obeying the USA and its puppets.[/QUOTE]Or did you mean to say "exacerbated" and "culture" instead?
Oh well, your illiteracy aside, both Venezuela and Russia are experiencing the consequences of their own actions. And anyone looking for a foreshadowing of likely future effects on Russia would do well to study the toll sanctions have taken on Venezuela's economy. They've both made their geopolitical beds and now are being compelled to sleep in them. If they have problems with that, they should start by taking a look in the mirror.
As far as Russian culture is concerned, it's actually at the root of their current troubles. Russia's hubris and narcissistic world view has its foundation in a delusional self-image. They have disdain for anything non-Russian and a belief they have a God-given right to rule over other nations, especially those with populations predominantly of Slavic origin.
Actually, when it comes to culture, Kyiv has priority over Moscow as it's the older capital by far and it's where "Kievan Rus" originated, not Moscow. So, by any standard of cultural primacy, Moscow should be paying tribute to Kyiv, not the other way around.
As far as the US is concerned, being a young country, built by immigrants from every corner of the world, we're happy to be an amalgamation of many cultures. One of the benefits of that unique history is that it tends to ameliorate, minimize, and eliminate the worst ideas and tendencies of any single culture. Is it perfect? Absolutely not! But there's a reason why there's a waiting line to get in, and it's because many still see it as the quintessential Land of Opportunity.
What opportunity is there in Russia? You're either a member of the St. Petersburg-Moscow elite or you're a peasant who exists for the sole purpose of being used and exploited by that elite. Russia's problem is that, while past leaders (Tsars and USSR dictators) had an ample supply of cannon fodder, that demographic reality no longer exists. Not only are they running short of exploitable military-age men, but they're dealing with a huge exodus of their best and brightest.
Russia, like Putin himself, is sick and getting sicker.
P.S. As far as Germany is concerned, they've been joined at the hip with Russia for years. Serves them right if their economy is suffering as a result. The sooner Europe cuts any lines that tie them to the sinking Russian ship, the better.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2698445]This is a recent short video clip where Mearsheimer clearly explains the extreme danger of current USA policy. To summarize, there are 2 conditions under which Russia will use nukes: (1) someone uses nukes against Russia first; (2) Russia faces threat to its existence. "Threat to existence" is a fuzzy concept, but that is exactly what the USA cheerleaders seems to be hinting at. In particular, humiliating external military defeat that might lead to internal political disintegration sounds like "threat to existence". If you care about Ukraine, then you cannot be hoping for humiliating Russian defeat because of the possibility this causes escalation to nukes. Painful as it will be to the Ukrainians, they need to accept any reasonable settlement with Russia. Which probably means more of south and east Ukraine under Russian control that before..[/QUOTE]Is that it relies on at least one dubious (if not provably false) assumption. And that is that there is any settlement that will satisfy Russia in the long run. They started this war with the aim of taking ALL of Ukraine. They failed mostly because their "intel" that a sizeable portion of the population would greet them as liberators was dead (pun intended) wrong. So what basis is there for a school of thought that Russia will ever be fully satisfied by taking (only) Donetsk, Luhansk, and other such areas? Such a view is naive in the extreme, IMO, or willfully ignorant.
Based on multiple statements by Putin, and others, a better reality-based assessment is that Russian ambition is to reclaim territory they feel is theirs by historical and divine right. Which means that any agreement or armistice that falls short of that goal is likely doomed to failure.
But, but, they have NUKES! Yes, that's absolutely true. And they'll still have nukes if they decide to "denazify" Poland, Finland, or the Baltics. Or maybe start with non-NATO countries like Moldova? The problem with the nuke argument is that it gives the aggressor carte blanche, and Putin knows this and doesn't hesitate to rattle his nuclear saber.
So where does it stop? Mearsheimer seems to believe it's all the fault of NATO and the West and that Russia would play nice if they weren't provoked. I don't think history and evidence back up that position. For one thing, it denies or minimizes Russia's agency over, and responsibility for, its own decisions and actions. The rivalry between the US and the USSR (and now Russia) is such that each has been provoking the other for decades. I'm not defending any specific action by NATO or the West, merely observing that Russia AFFIRMATIVELY chose to invade, and they CHOSE to launch shells and missiles at targets they knew were civilian. Putin and Russia will go down in history as war criminals, and not just because NATO or the US says so. There will be an innumerable number of voices that will join in a chorus of condemnation.
All the above means that Mearsheimer's proposed solution doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell of happening. And one ironclad piece of evidence to that effect is that Ukraine will never accept it, and there's no political will to pressure them to do so. And, even if there was, Ukraine would destroy any such pressure in the court of public opinion as they're hugely winning the information warfare battle.
As to how things will actually play out, I'd be foolish to predict since there are so many variables still in play. But I will share an insight that I thought was a good one. And by good I mean that it's based on what's actually happening rather than someone's idea of what "should" happen.
[URL]https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/the-ingenious-strategy-that-could-win-the-war-for-ukraine-20220517-p5alz4.html[/URL]
The article, authored by a retired Australian general, points out that Ukraine's strategy so far has been one of "corrosion" with respect to Russia's ability to fight. Rather than pushing for overt victories, which they'd probably find difficult to achieve, they're wearing down the enemy while undermining that enemy's ability and will to fight. Will that prove successful over the long haul? Who knows? But it's the kind of low-key strategy that robs Putin of escalation opportunities. His army is grinding to a halt due to its own logistical and leadership failures, and even everyday Russians are starting to recognize that fact. Russian military bloggers, as just one example, have recently savaged the army's botched river crossing, in which they reportedly lost hundreds of vehicles and troops. Nobody's buying the "NATO did that" BS excuse. And at the same time, many conscription offices are being firebombed across Russia.
I think Putin knows he has a weak hand and that's one reason he passed up a prime opportunity to mobilize and escalate, during the recent Victory Day celebration. Instead, he delivered a nothingburger of a speech that left analysts, inside and outside Russia, scratching their heads.
I can't predict the future, and neither can Mearsheimer, but I'm not buying what he's selling.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2698469]This is all very likely, There is only one direction to go from chaos and that is up. Interestingly if you look at crude oil price charts starting from Putin's rise to power in 1999, you will see oil at $20 per barrel rising virtually unstoppable to a price of over $100 per barrel in 2014. I also don't think that the invasion of the Ukraine and the rapid rise in oil prices in 2021 are unconnected events.
Getting back to the question Hitler launched his war of aggression twenty years after World War II. Many Germans and certainly the German military were all too willing to avenge the defeat of WWI. [/QUOTE]Where Hitler failed to destroy Russia and grab control of their natural resources, the USA can succeed.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2698469]This is all very likely, but I'm a bit more optimistic.[/QUOTE]I didn't include the rest of your post in the quote above because, no matter how rational and hopeful it may sound, I fear it's largely irrelevant.
That's because I believe this war involves issues that far predate Putin, and go back much further than even the USSR period. Here's a thread that, while a bit of a long read, delves deeply into the cultural and historical underpinnings of the conflict:
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1516162437455654913.html[/URL]
After reading this it became clear to me that Russia is not what it is because of Putin. Rather Putin is what he is because of Russia, and is the product of all the cultural, literary, and religious traditions that form the Russian consciousness. Putin is merely the current instrument of that consciousness and, when he's gone, Russia will choose another. Whatever the solution is, if one even exists, it won't be one that only touches the surface and addresses only the current state of affairs. I can't fathom what would be required to change the entire soul, and deep-seated world view, of an entire nation. Yet that might be exactly what's required. That realization, unfortunately, is why I can't share your optimism.
The linked article is not bad. However, it neglects the opinion of the "simple" Russian or Ukrainian.
During my years living and working in St. Petersburg, in the year 1998, I met the boss of a German social org from Hamburg, providing support to people in SPb.
He told me, they had arranged a meeting of former soldiers of the "Wehrmacht" (former German Army) and the Red Army, fighting against each other during siege of SPb.
I was very surprised, but were informed, they drank vodka and beer together, and were singing their old songs.
Asking, how that was possible, I was told: The soldiers said, we had to shoot each other, because otherwise the Gestapo or the NKWD had shot us.
There might be aversions of some Russians against Ukraine; but I think, this is not common private opinion.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2698612]Is that it relies on at least one dubious (if not provably false) assumption. And that is that there is any settlement that will satisfy Russia in the long run.
[/QUOTE]You write about realism but you don't understand what it is and in fact you are another idealist.
Humans are territorial animals. Territorial borders are set largely by assessment of comparative strength of competitors for territory. To take territory from an existing possessor requires being considerably stronger, because no one gives up territory if they can avoid it. These rules about territory apply everywhere in nature. Open conflict occurs when there is uncertainty as to comparative fighting strength (both bodily and mental strength aka willpower or determination). Animals always understand the rules, so senseless fighting (outcome obvious but neither side relents and thus both sides suffer) is rare in nature. Senseless fighting is more common among humans, because mental strength is such a big factor, and far more difficult to assess mental than physical strength of the opponents. In particular, fighting to death over ideologies (like Ukrainian versus Russian language) is unheard of with animals but common with humans.
Neither I nor Mearsheimer approves (or disapproves) of Russia (or Ukraine or USA), any more than we approve or disapprove of animals fighting over territory. Realism is not about morality. It is about understanding what is actually happening. By understanding territorial conflicts, we can resolve them peacefully, so as to minimize damage to everyone concerned.
Russia considered Ukraine an extension of its territory, same as USA considers Canada an extension of its territory. If Putin or the Russian military leadership as a whole had wanted to seize all of Ukraine, they could have easily done so in 2014. Instead, they deliberately limited themselves to taking only Crimea, as a punishment to Ukraine and a warning to other FSU states. They were careful not to put uniformed troops in Donbas and the Minsk accord assumed Donbas remained part of a federalized Ukraine, precisely because Russia was trying to send a message that they respect borders and they want others to respect them. This current war is another dose of punishment and warning because Ukraine didn't get the message the first time.
As it turns out, Russia's fighting strength may not be sufficient to justify the territory it claims, and it is obvious that Russia recognizes this and is already in retreat to some extent. But a powerful and lightly wounded animal that lost a fight and is now retreating is extremely dangerous if pursued, because eventually it will reach a point where it refuses to give up more territory and then it will fight ferociously, to the death if necessary. That means nuclear weapons in the current case of Russia. And if USA / NATO responds to tactical nukes with the same, then strategic nukes is the next step.
The incoherency of your position becomes very clear if you start proposing a full-on USA involvement in Ukraine. Why not? Ukraine is a sovereign country so why can't Ukraine invite the USA military to move in with USA aircraft flown by USA pilots, etc? Unless you are a complete fool, something in your stomach will turn at this idea.
Whereas my and Mearsheimer's position is fully coherent. Like animals protecting our territory, we know there are borders, the borders are somewhat fuzzy, the borders grow and shrink as fighting strength grows and shrinks. We sense, at an intuitive level, that we are not willing to risk nuclear war for Ukraine, but we will risk it at the Poland border. And reality corresponds to our realist understanding of the world. Still no USA / NATO troops or aircraft with USA / NATO pilots in Ukraine, because USA / NATO military commanders are mostly realists, and they understand at the animal intuition level that is pushing too far. Unfortunately, at the conscious level, USA / NATO and Ukraine political, as opposed to military, leaders are all thinking in idealist rather than realist terms, and this led to misunderstanding.
If Ukraine won't take a settlement, then the outcome is obvious: stalemate. Russia digs in and holds south and east Ukraine, most of which will be a destroyed wasteland. Subdued fighting continues for years. USA uses Ukraine to test new weapons technologies. Russia uses war to justify strong central government under Putin's successor (he will surely die of hos various sicknesses soon). Ukraine is impoverished. (Your prediction of Western countries pouring money into Ukraine after the war ends is laughable. Janet Yellen just yesterday started making noises that seizing Russian foreign reserves is illegal, in main Kyiv thread there are comments that Poles are already getting tired of their Ukrainian refugees, Europe going into recession and still depends on Russian gas and other natural resources, divisiveness by Hungary and other countries resentful of Ukraine getting so much money, plus Ukrainian politicians will steal any aid the country does get, etc).
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2698473]Comrade, you seem to live in a parallel universe.
The United States is a 250 year-old amalgamation of cultures that has the eyes and ears of the world.
Russian culture while amazing hasn't really evolved in 250 years. There is an obvious lack of modernity hindered by a long, long love-hate relationship with the West.[/QUOTE]America has no culture, bar song and dance, Silicone Valley, Johnny Depp and snorting coke. The major sources of Western culture are all in Western Europe. Yours is the culture of Gladiator, blood and dildoes.
I am only replying to your note here as the others are too long winded and pompous to bother with. They do, however, show what imperialist pigs Americans are, a truly vile bunch of rejects, who are now trying to beg for oil from Venezuela, a country they ruined.
As regards a clown going on about my English, one of several languages I speak as a second tongue, I cannot edit posts here as American perverts in the Philippines board got me moderated for using the word skank to describe, well, skanks. They too show the same ignorant arrogance.
Don't let your loud mouths and loud Hawaii t shirts fool you. You are loathed by those who have not dumbed down.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2698574]As far as Russian culture is concerned, it's actually at the root of their current troubles. Russia's hubris and narcissistic world view has its foundation in a delusional self-image. They have disdain for anything non-Russian and a belief they have a God-given right to rule over other nations, especially those with populations predominantly of Slavic origin.[/QUOTE]Russian history and oddly the present is littered with this construct that Russia is the Big Daddy and overseer of the Slavic peoples. Throw into it some ancient mysticism from the Orthodox church and you are stuck in the perverted past.
Most of us know part of the origins of World War I. Russia's historic desire to expand West. Their belief in their right and prerogative to "protect" the peoples of the Balkans.
Strangely, Tito and the Balkan Slavs didn't run to Big Daddy Russia after World War II.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2698709]You write about realism but you don't understand what it is and in fact you are another idealist.
Humans are territorial animals. Territorial borders are set largely by assessment of comparative strength of competitors for territory. To take territory from an existing possessor requires being considerably stronger, because no one gives up territory if they can avoid it. These rules about territory apply everywhere in nature. Open conflict occurs when there is uncertainty as to comparative fighting strength (both bodily and mental strength aka willpower or determination). Animals always understand the rules, so senseless fighting (outcome obvious but neither side relents and thus both sides suffer) is rare in nature. Senseless fighting is more common among humans, because mental strength is such a big factor, and far more difficult to assess mental than physical strength of the opponents. In particular, fighting to death over ideologies (like Ukrainian versus Russian language) is unheard of with animals but common with humans...[/QUOTE]I define reality as things that are actually happening, not how I think things "should be," but the facts and evidence on the ground. You make repeated reference to Mearsheimer's world view, which you obviously share. But confusing a world view with reality is exactly the same fatal error that Russia made when they invaded. In their mistaken world view, Ukraine is just a subset of Greater Russia, and of course Ukrainians "should" recognize that fact and welcome the "liberators" benevolently sent by the Kremlin. But reality always has the final say, as tens of thousands of dead Russian soldiers can attest.
I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I'm proposing greater US involvement. I propose nothing, I merely observe, comment on those observations, and suggest possible extrapolations from what's currently happening. And I do my best to focus on the tides rather than the waves. And right now the tide is almost entirely moving against Russia. If or when that changes, I'll do my best to make accurate observations of that new reality. I don't see that happening any time soon, if ever, but that's simply an opinion.
Likewise, your and Mearsheimer's world view about humans as territorial animals, which seems to me to be essentially a "Law of the Jungle" view, is an opinion, nothing more. You're certainly entitled to it and I simply have no inclination to debate it because, as I stated above, my focus is on the current, observable, reality of facts on the ground.
Right now, those facts include a vast amount of money and equipment being funneled into Ukraine from NATO and Western countries. Could that change at some point? Yes, certainly. But that tide hasn't changed and is flowing decisively in Ukraine's direction. And it's worth considering that much of what's happening may not stem from any great love or affinity for Ukraine, but perhaps be driven by fear (or hate) of Russia and a desire to see Russian aggression defeated and Russia itself crippled. But that latter point is simply one theory as to why some countries are helping. The "why" of things is always open to debate, whereas the "what" is objectively observable.
Mearsheimer, IMO, superimposes his view of the "why" on the "what" and conflates the two. All his (and your) claims that his theories and world view constitute objective reality simply fall flat except, of course, to those that share them.
As with any theory, Mearsheimer's might prove to be correct. I don't personally think so, but I could be wrong. It's reality that always wins out in the end, and separates the wheat from the chaff. That's where my primary focus is, and any theory that doesn't account for, or contradicts, observable facts and evidence isn't worth my time.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2698612]Is that it relies on at least one dubious (if not provably false) assumption. And that is that there is any settlement that will satisfy Russia in the long run. They started this war with the aim of taking ALL of Ukraine. They failed mostly because their "intel" that a sizeable portion of the population would greet them as liberators was dead (pun intended) wrong. So what basis is there for a school of thought that Russia will ever be fully satisfied by taking (only) Donetsk, Luhansk, and other such areas? Such a view is naive in the extreme, IMO, or willfully ignorant.
Based on multiple statements by Putin, and others, a better reality-based assessment is that Russian ambition is to reclaim territory they feel is theirs by historical and divine right. Which means that any agreement or armistice that falls short of that goal is likely doomed to failure..[/QUOTE]Mearsheimer's arguments sounds an awfully lot like "Hey if you just give Hitler Austria, Czechoslovakia and maybe a piece of Poland, that will make the ol' boy happy."
I wouldn't totally discount his point of view. You earlier mentioned Russian reparations to the Ukraine. The West has to be very careful about how the peace is built. In fact, having Turkey engaged as a mediator might not be a bad thing. You don't want it to appear that the West is imposing a punitive peace on the Russians.
The Ukrainian "corrosion" strategy is interesting analysis. It's not entirely a new concept. I believe the North Vietnamese employed a similar strategy. They made the USA And French earlier pay such a price that they simply packed up and left. I think by all accounts the Tet Offensive in 1968 was not an attempt to advance and actually hold ground. It was a strategic victory in that it corroded the United States' will to fight. I think at some point the North Vietnamese had swung global opinion to their favor.
The problem I see is will the Russians simply pack up and leave both physically and emotionally. Will they give up on the idea of controlling the Ukraine in one form or another?
Not to be glib, but it's like a divorce where one former partner tries to continue controlling and manipulating the other. In this case, the other partner is clearly saying "we have moved on."
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2698683]There might be aversions of some Russians against Ukraine; but I think, this is not common private opinion.[/QUOTE]Yes, I wouldn't give too much credence to Russian TV working girls. (I'm not directing this pejorative comment specifically at the Russian female commentator in the clip below. It is directed at all of them.)
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2698709]You write about realism but you don't understand what it is and in fact you are another idealist.
Humans are territorial animals. Territorial borders are set largely by assessment of comparative strength of competitors for territory. To take territory from an existing possessor requires being considerably stronger, because no one gives up territory if they can avoid it. These rules about territory apply everywhere in nature. Open conflict occurs when there is uncertainty as to comparative fighting strength (both bodily and mental strength aka willpower or determination). Animals always understand the rules, so senseless fighting (outcome obvious but neither side relents and thus both sides suffer) is rare in nature. Senseless fighting is more common among humans, because mental strength is such a big factor, and far more difficult to assess mental than physical strength of the opponents. In particular, fighting to death over ideologies (like Ukrainian versus Russian language) is unheard of with animals but common with humans.
Neither I nor Mearsheimer approves (or disapproves) of Russia (or Ukraine or USA), any more than we approve or disapprove of animals fighting over territory. Realism is not about morality. It is about understanding what is actually happening. By understanding territorial conflicts, we can resolve them peacefully, so as to minimize damage to everyone concerned...[/QUOTE]Unlike animals, most humans hold a concept of good and evil, right versus wrong.
Your post started off well enough with your analogies to territory in the animal kingdom. But then, you digressed in comparing Russia's relationship to the Ukraine with the United State's relationship with Canada. There is nothing remotely comparable. It's because Western Democracies can cooperate and work together for mutual betterment.
Mearsheimer has some points to consider. I'm not sure they are the points you have gleaned.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2698622]Where Hitler failed to destroy Russia and grab control of their natural resources, the USA can succeed.[/QUOTE]In the near-term, you might be looking at Chinese petroleum executives all over Moscow. I think the Chinese will be all over the Moscow clubs sniffing some of that fine Russian pussy. Perhaps Gazprom Neft, Rosneft and Tatneft, can become Gazprom Snift, Rossnift and so on.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2698724]America has no culture, bar song and dance, Silicone Valley, Johnny Depp and snorting coke. The major sources of Western culture are all in Western Europe. Yours is the culture of Gladiator, blood and dildoes.[/QUOTE]Democracy is kind of a big cultural thing. I hear it's catching on. You might want to actually try it.
California, New Mexico, Texas etc, m stolen at the point of a gun from Mexico.
"Pity Mexico, so far from God, so near to ther United States."
Go off and eat a dozen of your horrible hot dogs (German, as nothing is American, bar shit like Coca Cola) I see your scum are invading Somalia again. The sooner open season is declared, the better.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2698806]Unlike animals, most humans hold a concept of good and evil, right versus wrong.
Your post started off well enough with your analogies to territory in the animal kingdom. But then, you digressed in comparing Russia's relationship to the Ukraine with the United State's relationship with Canada. There is nothing remotely comparable. It's because Western Democracies can cooperate and work together for mutual betterment.
Mearsheimer has some points to consider. I'm not sure they are the points you have gleaned.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2698724]America has no culture, bar song and dance, Silicone Valley, Johnny Depp and snorting coke. The major sources of Western culture are all in Western Europe. Yours is the culture of Gladiator, blood and dildoes.
I am only replying to your note here as the others are too long winded and pompous to bother with. They do, however, show what imperialist pigs Americans are, a truly vile bunch of rejects, who are now trying to beg for oil from Venezuela, a country they ruined.
As regards a clown going on about my English, one of several languages I speak as a second tongue, I cannot edit posts here as American perverts in the Philippines board got me moderated for using the word skank to describe, well, skanks. They too show the same ignorant arrogance.
Don't let your loud mouths and loud Hawaii t shirts fool you. You are loathed by those who have not dumbed down.[/QUOTE]Like the jealous critics of dominant sports teams, you love to engage in masturbatory anti-American critiques, grasping at whatever straws your feeble imagination can conjure up.
Meanwhile, like the dominant force it is, the US just laughs off such farcical comments and continues to outperform. It must really suck to be you as you watch US-led NATO increase its presence and influence in Europe. As I predicted early on, in this very forum, Sweden and Finland have applied for NATO membership. At the same time, it's being reported that Poland and the Baltic states are requesting an additional 20,000 NATO troops for each country (total 80,000). Since a significant proportion of those troops will be American, get ready for an upcoming boom of American babies in Eastern Europe.
America has never given two shits for those who are envious and the response has ever been, and will continue to be, moving onward and upward on a trajectory of success. Meanwhile, America's closest rivals (China and Russia) are demonstrably in decline.
P.S. Nice try to blame the admins for your own deficiencies. Checking the spelling of "culture" is simply an elementary exercise in proofreading, which the "preview post" button provides unlimited opportunity to do. And using the wrong word entirely (exasperated vice exacerbated) is an error that goes beyond proofreading. But that's ok, blaming others is one of the character traits you've demonstrated, so it's not a surprise.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2698830]California, New Mexico, Texas etc, m stolen at the point of a gun from Mexico.
"Pity Mexico, so far from God, so near to ther United States."
Go off and eat a dozen of your horrible hot dogs (German, as nothing is American, bar shit like Coca Cola) I see your scum are invading Somalia again. The sooner open season is declared, the better.[/QUOTE]Since America's past is causing you to hyperventilate, and America's present is giving you high blood pressure, it stands to reason that America's positive and dominant future is about to cause you a debilitating stroke!
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2698830]California, New Mexico, Texas etc, m stolen at the point of a gun from Mexico.
"Pity Mexico, so far from God, so near to ther United States."[/QUOTE]I knew someone would introduce the often repeated but not entirely thought through bad history of the USA-Mexican border.
The few Mexicans that lived in California, New Mexico and Texas didn't give a shit about the ineffective dictatorship in Mexico. The Mexicans in Texas fought Santa Anna. They are buried at the Alamo and other battle sites.
Now if you want to bring up the Native-Americans, they got screwed by European settlement. That was the age of conquest and about that time Russia was invading the Eastern lands inhabited by the Tatars and other peoples.
I suppose you can try to make a 21st century case that Tzarina Catherine the Great conquered the Ukraine in the 1700's. Thereby, Russia has a right to claim the Ukrainian's deference and obedience for all eternity.
This is an interesting thread if we don't count a few idiots, useful and otherwise, LOL.
However, please consider that with all this historical and cultural diggings you might unnecessarily complicate things. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and old-fashioned colonialism is also just that. Colonialism.
Yes, Russia feels that it's entitled to Ukraine. And yes, it hurts the collective Russian psyche that after all these years, Ukraine doesn't want to do anything with them anymore. But there is more to this insanity.
1. After the comparatively painless dissolution of the USSR, Russia is the last colonial power on Earth. Losing colonies is never easy (remember France clinging to Alger merely 50 years ago). Russia's pain from the USSR dissolution was dulled by the fact that most of CIS countries remained Russia's clients states. Ukraine is very different.
2. Russia lives and breathes in terms of geopolitics. It wants to be physically surrounded by satellites that would provide a natural shield to Russia proper. Russia has never been interested in far away colonies in Africa, South East Asia or the Americas. It wants its vassals to be close.
3. Letting Ukraine depart Russia's "sphere of influence" is a huge domestic problem as well. A strong, prosperous, democratic and independent Ukraine is a direct threat to Putin's absolute power. It's too close.
4. Finally, Putin has devolved (evolved?) from a thieving tyrant into a madman. Because one can't not be a madman to start this war.
Your collective comments are not worth reading because you are American and, as you show, ignorant and you think your armed might makes you right. The Nazis thought the same and the Red Army, who defeated them, hated them for it. You are a malign force in the world, nothing to offer but sexual diseases, Coca Cola and porn.
Go check out the American politics thread to see how vacuous you all are. It should really have shit tagged on to the title.
I cannot think of anything more generically repulsive than Americans.
On the positive side, the surrender of your Nazis in Mariupol continues. A surrender not an evacuation as your fake media call it. I'd ask you to enjoy the Cannes film festival but that idiot Zelensky is all over it, trying to fry European brains to make them as mushy as what passes for American brains.
Losers. Hookers should charge an American / lard excess free for dealing with you lot.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699027]Your collective comments are not worth reading because you are American and, as you show, ignorant and you think your armed might makes you right. The Nazis thought the same and the Red Army, who defeated them, hated them for it. You are a malign force in the world, nothing to offer but sexual diseases, Coca Cola and porn.
Go check out the American politics thread to see how vacuous you all are. It should really have shit tagged on to the title.
I cannot think of anything more generically repulsive than Americans.
On the positive side, the surrender of your Nazis in Mariupol continues. A surrender not an evacuation as your fake media call it. I'd ask you to enjoy the Cannes film festival but that idiot Zelensky is all over it, trying to fry European brains to make them as mushy as what passes for American brains.
Losers. Hookers should charge an American / lard excess free for dealing with you lot.[/QUOTE]It's about 60 km from the border and an easy day trip from the Russian city of Rostov-on-Don. And yet, here we are at nearly three months into the war and the legendary (in their own minds) Russian army is STILL not in complete control.
Maybe you should check in with your Russkiy overlords because there's a high level of dissatisfaction and disgust among Russian bloggers and commentators that the "special operation" has taken so long and accomplished so little, especially where Mariupol is concerned.
Meanwhile, Russian troops have turned tail and run like scared rabbits away from Kyiv, and now the same is happening around Kharkhiv. In fact Russia is performing so badly that even on Russian state television the negative comments are starting (video length = 1 min 32 sec, English subs):
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF6TXAIe1tc[/URL]
Since media messaging in Russia is tightly controlled, and since this commentator hasn't been tossed in jail, it's logical to conclude that the Kremlin wants to shape their messaging to include the possibility of less than optimal results, which is simply a euphemism for defeat.
BTW, the commentator warns against the dangers of "informational tranquilisers," so I'm guessing he had you, and your ilk, in mind.
P.S. Keep hitting your head against the brick wall of the US with your anti-American screeds. We don't even notice, unless it's to laugh at your own blood streaming down your face. Putin has guaranteed that the US will be ascendant for decades to come, while Russia spirals downward into an abyss of their own making.
P. P.S. One great thing Russia has gotten from this war is a killer (pun intended) motto. How does "Remember the Moskva!" sound? Pretty good, I think. But feel free to come up with another one, whatever floats your boat.
So then do you secretly enjoy it when terrorists attack america? In your mind is it justified?
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2698724]America has no culture, bar song and dance, Silicone Valley, Johnny Depp and snorting coke. The major sources of Western culture are all in Western Europe. Yours is the culture of Gladiator, blood and dildoes.
I am only replying to your note here as the others are too long winded and pompous to bother with. They do, however, show what imperialist pigs Americans are, a truly vile bunch of rejects, who are now trying to beg for oil from Venezuela, a country they ruined.
As regards a clown going on about my English, one of several languages I speak as a second tongue, I cannot edit posts here as American perverts in the Philippines board got me moderated for using the word skank to describe, well, skanks. They too show the same ignorant arrogance.
Don't let your loud mouths and loud Hawaii t shirts fool you. You are loathed by those who have not dumbed down.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699027]You are a malign force in the world, nothing to offer but sexual diseases, Coca Cola and porn.[/QUOTE]The great thing is you can pour Coca-Cola on any STD and kill it. As far as porn, I have a penchant for watching the natural beauties from Eastern Europe especially the girls from Russia and the Ukraine.
Russian Loren Strawberry is very nice.
[URL]https://twitter.com/lorenstrawberr1[/URL]
[QUOTE=BrasilSoccer0;2699243]So then do you secretly enjoy it when terrorists attack america? In your mind is it justified?[/QUOTE]Americans are the biggest terrorists on the planet. American soldiers have committed unspeakable crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, raping children, killing entire families. The invasion of Iraq was an actual war crime, a crime against the peace, built on a tissue of lies, as was the destruction of Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya, etc etc either directly or through their puppets. You only have to read the be s here or in a few of the other stupid shit threads.
As regards the liberation of Mariupol, compare it to how the American vermin flattened Fallujah and Raqqa. Americans are the new Hitler's Willing Executioners. Ukraine is a mess because of America and Victoria Fuck the EU Nuland.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2698890]I knew someone would introduce the often repeated but not entirely thought through bad history of the USA-Mexican border.
The few Mexicans that lived in California, New Mexico and Texas didn't give a shit about the ineffective dictatorship in Mexico. The Mexicans in Texas fought Santa Anna. They are buried at the Alamo and other battle sites.
Now if you want to bring up the Native-Americans, they got screwed by European settlement. That was the age of conquest and about that time Russia was invading the Eastern lands inhabited by the Tatars and other peoples.
I suppose you can try to make a 21st century case that Tzarina Catherine the Great conquered the Ukraine in the 1700's. Thereby, Russia has a right to claim the Ukrainian's deference and obedience for all eternity.[/QUOTE]Whataboutism is the only refuge at the moment for the Russophiles and / or America haters among us, in ISG, and even within the borders of the US. In this case the whatabouts go back centuries. It's all a debate fallacy, or a take on the ad hominem called the tu quoque fallacy while the topic of discussion is entirely avoided.
[URL]https://www.thoughtco.com/tu-quoque-logical-fallacy-1692568[/URL]#text=Tu%20 quoque%20 is%20 a%20 type,%22 a%20 tu%20 quoque%20 argument. %22.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2699213]It's a....[/QUOTE]Just a message of appreciation. I have enjoyed reading your blogging here, and many of the links you have been sharing have been extremely insightful. So much so, that I'm actually ok with Comrade Morales deranged ravings, since it prompts another superb rebuttal from yourself with good sources and reading materials.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2699213]It's about 60 km f.[/QUOTE]Azovstal is over.
Moscow, May 20. / TASS /. [URL]https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14689499[/URL].
"Russian Defense Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu reported to Russian President Vladimir Putin on the completion of the operation and the complete liberation of the Azovstal plant and Mariupol from Ukrainian militants.
This was announced on Friday by the official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Major General Igor Konashenkov. "On the completion of the operation and the complete liberation of the plant and the city of Mariupol from Ukrainian militants, Russian Defense Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu reported to Russian President Vladimir Putin," Konashenkov said. According to him, the territory of the plant, where a group of Ukrainian militants of the Nazi formation "Azov" has been blocked since April 21, has been completely liberated.
More than 500 militants from the factory as part of the last group surrendered on Friday. "Today, May 20, the last group of 531 militants surrendered," Konashenkov said.
"The so-called "commander" of the Nazis" Azov "because of the hatred of the Mariupol residents and the desire of the townspeople to punish him for numerous atrocities, was taken out of the territory of the plant in a special armored car," the Russian Defense Ministry said.
According to Konashenkov, the underground facilities of the enterprise, in which the militants hid, came under the full control of the RF Armed Forces.
"In total, since May 16 of this year, during the operation, 2,439 Azov Nazis and servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, blocked on the territory of the plant, laid down their arms and surrendered," said a representative of the Russian Defense Ministry."
Now, the Ukronazis can get back to winning the war are finishing off the rebellion.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2698724]America has no culture, bar song and dance, Silicone Valley, Johnny Depp and snorting coke. The major sources of Western culture are all in Western Europe. Yours is the culture of Gladiator, blood and dildoes.
.[/QUOTE]I agree with you. America has no culture because it is beyond that. It is an idea. Let's look at how culture is defined.
Culture: the arts, customs, lifestyles, background, and habits that characterize a particular society or nation.
- The US is a melting pot of different customs, backgrounds, etc. Nothing clearly sticks out as out 'culture' at this point unless you can consider consumerism, grilling, solo cup keggers, and small town America Football Friday nights a culture (actually the last two are unique!).
I suggest a better way to characterize America (I. E. The US), is as an idea or ethos. Let's look at that definition.
Ethos: the character or fundamental values of a person, people, culture, or movement.
- This has more resonance. When immigrants think of America, they think of opportunity, which is core to our ethos. The American Dream is the national ethos of the United States, the set of ideals (democracy, rights, liberty, individualism, entrepreneurship, opportunity and equality) in which freedom includes the opportunity for prosperity and success, as well as an upward social mobility for the family and children, achieved through hard work in a society with few barriers (or less than other countries at any rate).
- Now, the US is FAR, FAR from perfect, but if you are a hard worker and want a leveler playing ground than virtually any other place than the world you should come here.
-Chicago.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699027]Your collective comments are not worth reading because you are American and, as you show, ignorant and you think your armed might makes you right.
On the positive side, the surrender of your Nazis in Mariupol continues. A surrender not an evacuation as your fake media call it. I'd ask you to enjoy the Cannes film festival but that idiot Zelensky is all over it, trying to fry European brains to make them as mushy as what passes for American [/QUOTE]On another positive side, the Russian movie "Tchaykovsky's wife" will compete for the Palm the'or at Cannes.
Looks like some cracks in the NATO.
You were going well until you fucked up. Gallia in tres pars divisus est, Gaul is divided into three parts and so should your post have been.
1. USA has no culture beyond song and dance trash and Epstein.
2. America is not an idea. Americans have no ideas beyond a hamburger (Think Hamburg). I will grant you "small town America Football Friday nights a culture" but that now is mostly Matt Damon Hollywood shit.
3. The American dream. Fuck that shit. Let's trade nukes.
Of all the very many Americans I have met and worked with, I have respect for less than 1% of them and I am far from unique in that. Of that 1%, I have a lot of respect for them. But the perverts who post pics of their cum on the Philippines board, give me a break.
I've just spent a less than enjoyable month in Northern Finland, salmon fishing on the Teno River. And sharing my experiences with wolverines and brown bears made my holiday less than perfect (though the salmon were perfect, God bless Arctic warfare). Let's just say Finnish hospitals are expensive; be insured. Another week or so and I should be recovered. In the meantime, God Bles Russia.
[QUOTE=Chicago85;2699301]I agree with you. America has no culture because it is beyond that. It is an idea. Let's look at how culture is defined.
Culture: the arts, customs, lifestyles, background, and habits that characterize a particular society or nation.
- The US is a melting pot of different customs, backgrounds, etc. Nothing clearly sticks out as out 'culture' at this point unless you can consider consumerism, grilling, solo cup keggers, and small town America Football Friday nights a culture (actually the last two are unique!).
I suggest a better way to characterize America (I. E. The US), is as an idea or ethos. Let's look at that definition.
Ethos: the character or fundamental values of a person, people, culture, or movement.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699259]Americans are the biggest terrorists on the planet. American soldiers have committed unspeakable crimes in Iraq, Afghanistan, raping children, killing entire families. The invasion of Iraq was an actual war crime, a crime against the peace, built on a tissue of lies, as was the destruction of Yugoslavia, Syria, Libya, etc etc either directly or through their puppets. You only have to read the be s here or in a few of the other stupid shit threads.
As regards the liberation of Mariupol, compare it to how the American vermin flattened Fallujah and Raqqa. Americans are the new Hitler's Willing Executioners. Ukraine is a mess because of America and Victoria Fuck the EU Nuland.[/QUOTE]Thanks to your suck-buddy Putin, American troops are going to be all over Europe soon, even more (tens and maybe hundreds of thousands) than they already are. Also, with the Euro-Dollar exchange rate nearly at parity, they'll be visiting FKKs, and massage places, and brothels, and hanging out with every kind of working girl in a major way. And business owners, desperate for a share of those American dollars, will be opening up Coca Cola and burger joints like crazy!
Feel free to share your neighborhood Post Code and I'll make sure to pass along an expedited request for American-style establishments in your area.
And, and, and, you know what's abso-fucking-lutely hilarious? None of this would have happened except for Russia's imbecilic invasion of Ukraine. Next time you speak to Little Vlad, be sure to give him my thanks for guaranteeing decades of NATO and American dominance! And, when your poor, apoplectic self is searching for someone to blame, just look toward those red brick towers in the East.
Barbarians at the gate! ROTFLMAO!
[QUOTE=Chicago85;2699301]I agree with you. America has no culture because it is beyond that. It is an idea. Let's look at how culture is defined.
I suggest a better way to characterize America (I. E. The US), is as an idea or ethos. Let's look at that definition..[/QUOTE]"America is the only nation in history which miraculously has gone directly from barbarism to decadence without the usual interval of civilization."
- G. Clemenceau (I. E. Some Frenchman).
The USA, "it is beyond that".
You're a fucking moron. I was on a suburban train some weeks ago, three loud mouthed Americans and me in my turf, coming from a place where there had been quite a few Americans idling about. When thinking about World War 4, think about those scenarios. In the mean time, get back to shooting up schools, synagogues, mosques and churches. It is what you hamburgers do best.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2699337] Typical American rant ![/QUOTE]Golfinho must not be American. He has read a book.
I hope your Nazi pals from Mariupol enjoy Siberia. Plenty of room for more.
Any ideas on this? Is it just another American ploy to rip off the world? Any connections with America's captured bio labs in Ukraine? Is it one of the side effects of the Covid jabs? The gay guys coming down with it would be vulnerable as they inject themselves with all kinds of crap. It seems Bill Gates won't just FKK off. A real James Bond villain.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699317].........USA has no culture beyond song and dance trash[/QUOTE]You mean like the Russian symphony and ballet that they copied from Western Europe.
I like to think American movies are a big deal. When I travel, locals like to talk about American movies.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2699357]"America is the only nation in history which miraculously has gone directly from barbarism to decadence without the usual interval of civilization."
- G. Clemenceau (I. E. Some Frenchman).
The USA, "it is beyond that".[/QUOTE]"The greatness of America lies not in being more enlightened than any other nation, but rather in her ability to repair her faults."
- A. Tocqueville (some Frenchman).
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699458]Putin is a fucking moron, but I can't resist being his suck-buddy![/QUOTE]As Russia's downward spiral accelerates, Siberia is likely to end up as the luxury vacation destination for former oligarchs. And, as they slurp their thin gruel of potatoes and beets, they'll be dreaming about American hamburgers and wishing they could have one.
Anti-American rhetoric is as temporary as the morning fog. Once it's dissipated by the sun, the real world is clearly seen. And there is no real-world scenario in which Russia wins. Only various scenarios of defeat which range from embarrassment and temporary disruption to utter collapse and disintegration. And, no matter how the details of defeat play out, Putin will almost certainly be blamed and excoriated by the Russians themselves. Nothing worse than a "strong man" dictator who turns out to be a weak loser.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699317]Of all the very many Americans I have met and worked with, I have respect for less than 1% of them and I am far from unique in that.[/QUOTE]The worldwide audience of people who give a shit about the above statement is numbered at one. Of course, when you look at your bilious image in a mirror, then maybe you can fool yourself into thinking that two people give a shit. But hey, that's a 100% increase, right?
[QUOTE] In the meantime, God Bles Russia.[/QUOTE]This last statement says it all, doesn't it? It fully reveals you as a total, and completely pathetic, fascist-loving, Z-idolizing, LilliPutin-sycophant. Even a worm has more dignity.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2699300]Azovstal is over.
Moscow, May 20. / TASS /. [URL]https://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/14689499[/URL].
"Russian Defense Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu reported to Russian President Vladimir Putin on the completion of the operation and the complete liberation of the Azovstal plant and Mariupol from Ukrainian militants.
This was announced on Friday by the official representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Major General Igor Konashenkov. "On the completion of the operation and the complete liberation of the plant and the city of Mariupol from Ukrainian militants, Russian Defense Minister General of the Army Sergei Shoigu reported to Russian President Vladimir Putin," Konashenkov said. According to him, the territory of the plant, where a group of Ukrainian militants of the Nazi formation "Azov" has been blocked since April 21, has been completely liberated.
More than 500 militants from the factory as part of the last group surrendered on Friday. "Today, May 20, the last group of 531 militants surrendered," Konashenkov said.
"The so-called "commander" of the Nazis" Azov "because of the hatred of the Mariupol residents and the desire of the townspeople to punish him for numerous atrocities, was taken out of the territory of the plant in a special armored car," the Russian Defense Ministry said.
According to Konashenkov, the underground facilities of the enterprise, in which the militants hid, came under the full control of the RF Armed Forces.
"In total, since May 16 of this year, during the operation, 2,439 Azov Nazis and servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, blocked on the territory of the plant, laid down their arms and surrendered," said a representative of the Russian Defense Ministry."
Now, the Ukronazis can get back to winning the war are finishing off the rebellion.[/QUOTE]By pointing out Mariupol's proximity to Russia, and the fact that it's taken nearly 3 months to overcome Ukrainian resistance, the clear conclusion is that any portrayal of it as a notable Russian "victory" is ludicrous.
And, at the time of my earlier post, there were conflicting reports as to whether all of the Ukrainian forces has surrendered or left. Please forgive me if I find your reference to an exclusively Russian source as less than persuasive. I prefer to wait for third-party confirmation, or the passage of a sufficient amount of time, as I never base any conclusion on official reports by either side.
But, if Russian sources are good enough for you, why not just declare the successful completion of the glorious "special operation" and we can all go back to our regular lives? I'm sure, if you look hard enough, you can find a Tass article to that effect.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.
[URL]https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2022/05/19/open-letter-to-noam-chomsky-and-other-like-minded-intellectuals-on-the-russia-ukraine-war/[/URL]
See the Open Letter for full details, but here are the main points, or patterns, addressed:
Pattern #1: Denying Ukraine's sovereign integrity.
Pattern #2: Treating Ukraine as an American pawn on a geo-political chessboard.
Pattern #3. Suggesting that Russia was threatened by NATO.
Pattern #4. Stating that the USA Isn't any better than Russia.
Pattern #5. Whitewashing Putin's goals for invading Ukraine.
Pattern #6. Assuming that Putin is interested in a diplomatic solution.
Pattern #7. Advocating that yielding to Russian demands is the way to avert the nuclear war.
A thoughtful, respectful, and civil discussion and rebuttal. Something that's sadly lacking in many circles.
P.S. The pro-Russia characterization of Chomsky, et al, is mine alone, not the article's authors.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699487]Any ideas on this? Is it just another American ploy to rip off the world? Any connections with America's captured bio labs in Ukraine? Is it one of the side effects of the Covid jabs? The gay guys coming down with it would be vulnerable as they inject themselves with all kinds of crap. It seems Bill Gates won't just FKK off. A real James Bond villain.[/QUOTE]Is that what landed you in a Finnish hospital? Or was it your need for a series of rabies shots?
[QUOTE=VinDici;2699294]Just a message of appreciation. I have enjoyed reading your blogging here, and many of the links you have been sharing have been extremely insightful. So much so, that I'm actually ok with Comrade Morales deranged ravings, since it prompts another superb rebuttal from yourself with good sources and reading materials.[/QUOTE]Many thanks for the kind words. As an FYI, my starting point has been the Ukrainian Conflict subreddit.
[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/new/[/URL]
With over 350 K members, it's a dumping ground of pro- and anti-Ukraine posts, and more than a few trolls. But, when you check it regularly, some contributors stand out and the authors and articles they reference prove worthy of following. Then, especially on the Twitter platform, you can further explore the subsidiary level of authors and articles cited. It's a bit like word of mouth, but the key is to separate the wheat from the chaff at the very beginning such that you're not wasting your time reading BS or propaganda. Here are a few I think are worth a look:
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/kamilkazani[/URL]
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/WarintheFuture[/URL]
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/PhillipsPOBrien[/URL]
There are others, of course, but I visit these on a regular basis and, if they cite an author or article they think worthwhile, I'll usually make the time to check it out.
P.S. Poor Pedro M! Just like the Coyote, always trying to catch the Roadrunner but always falling short. And, since it's a purely American reference, he probably won't recognize it and will have to look it up. That makes it even funnier, don't you think?
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2699535]"The greatness of America lies not in being more enlightened than any other nation, but rather in her ability to repair her faults."
- A. Tocqueville (some Frenchman).[/QUOTE]De Tocqueville, 1830's. What faults? LOL. Oh, wait, slavery got repaired.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2699531]You mean like the Russian symphony and ballet that they copied from Western Europe.[/QUOTE]When Mikhail Glinka, who was called the founder of Russian music, left Russia for Germany, he spat on the ground and yelled: "May I never see this vile country again."
For the music itself though, I don't think Tchaikovsky's or Rachmaninov's works were actually 'copied' from the West. Unlike the cars, planes and, oh yeah, the nukes.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2699615][URL]https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2022/05/19/open-letter-to-noam-chomsky-and-other-like-minded-intellectuals-on-the-russia-ukraine-war/[/URL][/QUOTE]This is a great read, and well articulates the issues at hand and what is at stake. Russia is out to erase Ukraine, through murder, subjugation and re-education. They have no interest in negotiations, and any participation in that direction is insincere as they were blowing up maternity wards and bread lines while talks were taking place. Any agreements wouldn't be honored. Ukraine is doing what they have to do if they wish to survive as a people.
And there were never any promises made not to enlarge NATO into Eastern Europe. Russia only questioned expansion as it would relate to troop deployments in the former GDR, as Gorbachev later confirmed in no uncertain terms. Plus these discussions were within the context of the old USSR where the Warsaw Pact was still in force. Eastern Euro countries tasted freedom and requested integration. Knowing Russia too well they asked for protection. It's impossible to have confidence in the analysis of anyone that ignores the agencies of these countries.
[URL]https://www.brookings.edu/blog/up-front/2014/11/06/did-nato-promise-not-to-enlarge-gorbachev-says-no/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2699659]De Tocqueville, 1830's. What faults? LOL. Oh, wait, slavery got repaired.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomlindsay/2019/08/30/after-all-didnt-america-invent-slavery/?sh=12c3e3d67ef6[/URL]
[URL]https://www.freetheslaves.net/slavery-today-2/slavery-in-history/[/URL]
[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Africa[/URL]
Anyone not looking at history through anti-American goggles should have the intellectual honesty to acknowledge the following:
- Slavery dates back thousands of years and was a near-universal practice.
- Slavery was a central feature of both the Greek and Roman empires. And those periods gave birth to many of the legal and cultural underpinnings of Western civilization.
- Slavery was facilitated and introduced to the New World by the Portuguese and Spanish.
-By some estimates, 90% of African slaves were sold into bondage by other Africans. And that occurrence was an essential prerequisite of the Atlantic slave trade.
[URL]https://alphahistory.com/russianrevolution/reform-and-reaction-in-russia/[/URL]
Russia, which is a country relevant to the discussions in this forum, didn't emancipate its serfs until 1861 (the same year the US Civil War began). And here's what that "freedom" looked like:
"Alexander II finally acted in 1861, signing a decree that ruled a line through serfdom. A process of land redistribution was commenced but the detail was left in the hands of corrupt bureaucrats and, in some cases, the land-owners themselves.
As a consequence, the reallocation of Russian land was hardly fair. Russia's serfs became free peasants but they were given a stark choice: either leave their land or commit to a 49-year state mortgage. They had, in effect, traded one form of bondage for anothe."
Moving into the 20th century, Nazi Germany made extensive use of forced labor from 1939 to 1945. "Arbeit macht frei," right? How quickly people forget.
Saudi Arabia and Yemen didn't ban slavery until 1962 and the Islamic Conference didn't renounce the practice until 1990. Oh yes, and there are many who would argue that China is currently the worst offender when it comes to forced labor in the modern world.
So yeah, it's pretty funny how, to so many, slavery is primarily a US-centric issue. Give me an effin' break!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2699619]Is that what landed you in a Finnish hospital? Or was it your need for a series of rabies shots?[/QUOTE]Belgium is now tightening the screws over monkeypox. Fuck off to Reddit and see what 4 chan have to say about it and then return. As regards sources, it is an information to noise thing (look it up, but not on Reddit). Your fan club here are moronic Americans, many of whom probably did disgusting things in Iraq and Afghanistan.
On a positive note, Russia is winning hands down.
On the American simpletons calling me Comrade to appear witty, the Communists are Russia's main opposition party; they are not in government but you go ahead to boil things down to your level.
As regards rebuttals, You haven't rebutted, much as you may be fond of butts. That is because I am not engaging with you because you are nothing to engage with.
You'll be happy to hear I am getting better, another few days to be safe. Then I'll be fighting fit again, as much as age allows me. I've caught up on my reading (no Reddit or 4 chan for me) and I hoped to be back in the saddle, but not with Ukrainians, soon. But then the Yanks spread monkeypox, on which I have my theories.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699833]Belgium is now tightening the screws over monkeypox. Fuck off to Reddit and see what 4 chan have to say about it and then return. As regards sources, it is an information to noise thing (look it up, but not on Reddit). Your fan club here are moronic Americans, many of whom probably did disgusting things in Iraq and Afghanistan.
On a positive note, Russia is winning hands down.
On the American simpletons calling me Comrade to appear witty, the Communists are Russia's main opposition party; they are not in government but you go ahead to boil things down to your level.
As regards rebuttals, You haven't rebutted, much as you may be fond of butts. That is because I am not engaging with you because you are nothing to engage with.
You'll be happy to hear I am getting better, another few days to be safe. Then I'll be fighting fit again, as much as age allows me. I've caught up on my reading (no Reddit or 4 chan for me) and I hoped to be back in the saddle, but not with Ukrainians, soon. But then the Yanks spread monkeypox, on which I have my theories.[/QUOTE]Maybe you should ask the Finnish doctors for another series of shots, or a refund, since you're clearly hallucinating.
There are NO credible military analysts anywhere on the planet (including neutral countries AND those favorable to Russia) who are even remotely talking about Russia winning. The MOST favorable assessment with respect to Russia is that of a stalemate scenario.
Even inside Russia there is pessimism, as I demonstrated with the YouTube link in my recent post, from anyone who has even a shred of a connection with reality. The only ones who speak differently are the propaganda-mongers, who probably don't believe it themselves, and those who are in the throes of rabies-induced hallucinations.
And Reddit, contrary to your delusional babbling, is not a source. Neither is Twitter. But both are platforms where people DO post their sources and those sources can then be vetted to see whether or not they're backed up by credibility and expertise. Every one of my sources has been so vetted and there isn't a single link in ANY of my posts that relies on some random Reddit or Twitter post. I consistently point to the original source, and invite everyone to read and decide for themselves.
Therefore, your attack on the platforms is simply the most lame and transparent example possible of ad hominem. If you have any substantive criticism against either the credentials or content of the numerous experts I've cited, feel free to post for the benefit of the forum. But you can't, so you won't, because you're an intellectual pipsqueak who can't bring himself (or, more likely, isn't able) to rise above the level of personal insults.
And that's where you're stuck, in the gutter with your Russian nationalist buddy Little Vlad and his Neo-Nazi minions in the Wagner battalion, and beyond. As for an actual reBUTTal, you couldn't find one with two hands and a compass.
Meanwhile, every real-world indication is that Russia is in a death-spiral, while the US and NATO (soon to include Finland and Sweden!) are on an ever upward trajectory. Thanks, LilliPutin!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2699615][URL]https://blogs.berkeley.edu/2022/05/19/open-letter-to-noam-chomsky-and-other-like-minded-intellectuals-on-the-russia-ukraine-war/[/URL]
See the Open Letter for full details, but here are the main points, or patterns, addressed:
Pattern #1: Denying Ukraine's sovereign integrity.
Pattern #2: Treating Ukraine as an American pawn on a geo-political chessboard.
Pattern #3. Suggesting that Russia was threatened by NATO.
Pattern #4. Stating that the USA Isn't any better than Russia.
Pattern #5. Whitewashing Putin's goals for invading Ukraine.
Pattern #6. Assuming that Putin is interested in a diplomatic solution.
Pattern #7. Advocating that yielding to Russian demands is the way to avert the nuclear war.
A thoughtful, respectful, and civil discussion and rebuttal. Something that's sadly lacking in many circles.
P.S. The pro-Russia characterization of Chomsky, et al, is mine alone, not the article's authors.[/QUOTE]Chomsky's perspectives have had their moments. As we age, we kind of get stuck in familiar patterns of thought. At 93, I think that is likely with Chomsky. He sees everything through the lens of imperialism. In his mind, the Ukraine is a proxy war between Russia and the United States. I believe Chomsky accepted North Vietnamese agency during the Vietnam War even though they were being supplied militarily by the Soviet Union. On a similar basis, the Ukrainians should have agency over their own sovereignty.
I use the analogy of choosing what to put in the box when making a clearly very biased case. You simply leave things out that don't fit the argument. Jmsuttr, the American slavery argument is exactly like that box. You had to point out everything left out of the box and ignored about global slavery.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699833]
On a positive note, Russia is winning hands down.[/QUOTE]Pants down is more like it.
Their morale is down, their economy is down, their relationship with the whole world is down in the dumps.
Russia has taken two large Ukrainian cities Mariupol and Kherson. The later was taken easily because it had been completely unprotected, while their "great" victory in Mariupol took a 3-month siege, tens of thousands dead civilians and Russian solders, complete destruction of a city with half-million population and a mind-boggling number of crimes against humanity.
3 months to take one city! The Pyrrhic victory wasn't as devastated to the victor as Mariupol.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyrrhus_of_Epirus[/URL]
In the meantime, Ukrainians have cleaned up the Kharkov Oblast from the enemy and reached the Russian border. And the land-lease hasn't even started yet.
Hands down, huh. Keep it up, comrade.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2699833]On the American simpletons calling me Comrade to appear witty, the Communists are Russia's main opposition party[/QUOTE]Nice try.
"Comrade" is still the only official way to address one's superior or colleague in the Russia's Armed Forces, Police, Russian Guard, FSB, GRU and every other military or paramililtary organization in the RF.
As a dedicated info-soldier for Mother Russia you are but a comrade, so don't sell yourself short, LOL.
Capiche, Tovarisch Morales?
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/opinion/putin-russia-sanctions-ukraine.html[/URL]
Short version:
1. Money flowing into Russia doesn't help if it can't be used to buy needed goods.
2. The flow of goods into Russia has dropped drastically, not only from countries formally participating in sanctions, but also from countries that aren't formally participating, including China.
3. Viewed in this context, Russia's trade surplus is a sign of weakness, as it signifies their inability to spend money outside their borders.
4. Since the current conflict has largely become a war of attrition, with significant equipment losses on both sides, time is working against Putin because of the inability to import materials, components, and parts needed to repair or replace war equipment. Ukraine, however, is being replenished by NATO and the West on an ongoing basis.
BTW, for those forum members who have a brain, and understand the difference between platforms and sources, here's the subreddit posting that points to the original article:
[URL]https://www.reddit.com/r/UkrainianConflict/comments/uumoap/opinion_how_the_west_is_strangling_putins_economy/[/URL]
And here's the same type of post on Twitter:
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/BaldwinRE/status/1527972892746588160[/URL]
Seems you guys are all here. Go watch it. [URL]https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1060921954507161[/URL].
Besides the American ghetto dwellers, we have some Reddit schmuck setting himself as an authority. Social media is not where to dive for the main parameters.
The mega surrenders continue.
Ukraine will probably ber divided into three part: Russian affiliated, Polish (and Romanian and Hungarian) controlled, and Zelensky's corrupt rump. Good luck bonking Nazi widows there.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2700152]Seems you guys are all here. Go watch it. [URL]https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1060921954507161[/URL].
Besides the American ghetto dwellers, we have some Reddit schmuck setting himself as an authority. Social media is not where to dive for the main parameters.
The mega surrenders continue.
Ukraine will probably ber divided into three part: Russian affiliated, Polish (and Romanian and Hungarian) controlled, and Zelensky's corrupt rump. Good luck bonking Nazi widows there.[/QUOTE][URL]https://t.me/ukrainenowenglish/6520[/URL]
Quite a thought-provoking map, eh?
Funny how Russia's "partner," China, seems to be sitting on the sidelines, waiting and licking its chops for the possible (likely?) breakup of Russia.
But only delusional fools think they can predict the future. I'm satisfied with accurately observing present realities and proposing reasonable extrapolations from that body of evidence.
And there is no reality-based scenario or extrapolation in which Russia wins. With each passing day they continue to eat their "seed corn," diminishing whatever reserves they may have, while sanctions prevent any meaningful replenishment. Meanwhile, Ukraine is being continually replenished and refreshed by the US, NATO, and a coalition of freedom-loving nations.
P.S. I don't do Facebook. You can suck dick if you want, but that's not how I roll.
[URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/23/russian-diplomat-to-the-un-in-geneva-resigns-over-war-in-ukraine[/URL]
"For twenty years of my diplomatic career I have seen different turns of our foreign policy, but never have I been so ashamed of my country as on February 24 of this year," Boris Bondarev (Russian diplomat, now ex-diplomat) said.
"The aggressive war unleashed by Putin against Ukraine, and in fact against the entire Western world, is not only a crime against the Ukrainian people, but also, perhaps, the most serious crime against the people of Russia," (see a viewable image of the full statement in the link below).
[URL]https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/208ed848-b343-4c13-9157-760178de76bc.jpg[/URL]
Those who've read my earlier posts know I've been keeping an eye out for instances of Russian elites turning their backs on Putin and the Kremlin. This incident qualifies, IMO, because no one in Russia gets to be a career diplomat, much less assigned to the United Nations, without being a member of the "in" group and having gained the approval of other elites.
If the letter and tone is taken at face value, then it would seem Bondarev has been disaffected with the ill-advised invasion from the very beginning. Which makes me wonder if he waited until he was able to settle his affairs in Russia (family, financial, etc.) before handing in his resignation. It's not something he could have done openly, so if it took a few months that would be understandable. He's certainly burned his bridges, so there's no going back. If he doesn't already have a second passport, he'll probably be applying for political asylum soon.
The watch continues! Who will be next?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700002][URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/opinion/putin-russia-sanctions-ukraine.html[/URL]
Short version:
1. Money flowing into Russia doesn't help if it can't be used to buy needed goods.
2. The flow of goods into Russia has dropped drastically, not only from countries formally participating in sanctions, but also from countries that aren't formally participating, including China.
3. Viewed in this context, Russia's trade surplus is a sign of weakness, as it signifies their inability to spend money outside their borders.
4. Since the current conflict has largely become a war of attrition, with significant equipment losses on both sides, time is working against Putin because of the inability to import materials, components, and parts needed to repair or replace war equipment. Ukraine, however, is being replenished by NATO and the West on an ongoing basis.
BTW, for those forum members who have a brain, and understand the difference between platforms and sources, here's the subreddit posting that points to the original article:[/QUOTE]Krugman? That's your idea of third party confirmation? LOL. A prime example of the Nobel Dynomite awards degenerated to political theatre.
If only our "Evo" Morales shared some of the same:
[URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-putin-switzerland-government-and-politics-2019b1448217f57e68d2b18b6727bf99[/URL]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2700378]Krugman? That's your idea of third party confirmation? LOL. A prime example of the Nobel Dynomite awards degenerated to political theatre.[/QUOTE]That's purely a figment of your own imagination.
What I did say was:
1. Nobel laureate.
2. Economist.
3. Analysis of Russian sanctions.
And, as a factual matter, all of the above are absolutely true.
As far as the analysis itself, I posted it primarily for information purposes and, while I included a brief summary, I didn't comment on, or endorse, any of the elements of the analysis. Everyone can read and make up their own mind.
So, if you want challenge or rebut anything in the article, knock yourself out. But when you try to insinuate that there's something in a post that isn't there, you're swimming neck-deep in Pedro M's shit-filled swimming pool. Is that really where you want to be?
One of the key elements of an intellectually honest debate is accurately portraying the other person's positions and statements, even if you disagree. Engaging in distortion or, even worse, ad hominem, is a clear indication that you're unwilling or unable to debate on the merits of the argument itself.
With a second passport and cash in hand, Gone back to Russia!
"One-third of Russian olim left Israel after 1 month with new passport, Cash.
[URL]https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-705369[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700340][URL]https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/5/23/russian-diplomat-to-the-un-in-geneva-resigns-over-war-in-ukraine[/URL]
"For twenty years of my diplomatic career I have seen different turns of our foreign policy, but never have I been so ashamed of my country as on February 24 of this year," Boris Bondarev (Russian diplomat, now ex-diplomat) said.
"The aggressive war unleashed by Putin against Ukraine, and in fact against the entire Western world, is not only a crime against the Ukrainian people, but also, perhaps, the most serious crime against the people of Russia," (see a viewable image of the full statement in the link below).
[URL]https://unwatch.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/208ed848-b343-4c13-9157-760178de76bc.jpg[/URL]..[/QUOTE]The most ex senior advisor lands in Israel.
"Putin's Senior Adviser Reportedly in Israel After Leaving Russia Over Ukraine Invasion.
Russian-Jewish Anatoly Chubais was the Kremlin's special representative for ties with international organizations, and had been an architect of economic reforms and privatization under Boris Yeltsin in the 1990's."
[URL]https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/putin-senior-advisor-reportedly-in-israel-after-leaving-russia-over-ukraine-invasion-1.10783221[/URL]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2700152]Seems you guys are all here. Go watch it. [URL]https://www.facebook.com/watch?v=1060921954507161[/URL].
Besides the American ghetto dwellers, we have some Reddit schmuck setting himself as an authority. Social media is not where to dive for the main parameters.
The mega surrenders continue.
Ukraine will probably ber divided into three part: Russian affiliated, Polish (and Romanian and Hungarian) controlled, and Zelensky's corrupt rump. Good luck bonking Nazi widows there.[/QUOTE]Azovstal steel plant utterly destroyed. Now it looks like Detroit.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2700523]With a second passport and cash in hand, Gone back to Russia!
"One-third of Russian olim left Israel after 1 month with new passport, Cash.
[URL]https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/article-705369[/URL][/QUOTE]As I read the article, it's not talking about high-profile oligarchs but rather Russians from the other levels of Russian society. Those people have the benefit of generally being able to fly "under the radar," while anything done by an oligarch would draw attention.
IMO, any Russian opposed to the war, or worried about their country's future, has probably thought about or made plans for leaving, either temporarily or permanently. And it's not surprising to me that some would straddle the fence for as long as possible, keeping their options open but not making a final decision unless or until the exit door is about to slam shut. So my thoughts are that these returnees (to the extent they haven't burned all their bridges), with 2nd passports in hand, are part of that "straddle" group.
Their biggest problem will be if the exit door shuts suddenly and unexpectedly. Then they'll be mostly screwed. Also, if something happens to put them on the radar of authorities while still in Russia, they'll experience the same result (screwed). Notice that the article makes no mention of Ukrainian refugees similarly gaming the system.
As always, posted as info for those who choose to read and decide for themselves.
[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-economy-imploding-exports-under-pressure-ukraine-war-sanctions-2022-5[/URL]
Of course, there are those who are predisposed to ignore the content itself and attack or ridicule the authors. I think it's become quite apparent which forum members prefer to tread the path of intellectual vacuousness and vapidity.
P.S. I would also point out that this analysis makes essentially the same point as the one I posted earlier, which is that the drastic drop in goods flowing into Russia is its Achilles' Heel.
Funny what can happen when people feel that the anonymity of a crowd enables them to speak freely. I haven't seen an estimate of the crowd size, but it appears to be in the thousands and possibly the tens of thousands.
[URL]https://www.indiatoday.in/world/russia-ukraine-war/story/russians-chant-slogan-anti-ukraine-war-concert-video-1953371-2022-05-24[/URL]
And it's worth noting that St. Petersburg is one of the premier centers of ethnic Russia, and somewhere you'd expect pro-Putin sentiment to be at its highest. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of measures the Kremlin puts in place to ensure this doesn't happen again.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2699606] I prefer to wait for third-party confirmation, or the passage of a sufficient amount of time, as I never base any conclusion on official reports by either side.[/QUOTE]Paging comrade Krugman for third-party confirmation.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700431]One of the key elements of an intellectually honest debate is accurately portraying the other person's positions and statements, even if you disagree. Engaging in distortion or, even worse, ad hominem, is a clear indication that you're unwilling or unable to debate on the merits of the argument itself.[/QUOTE]Without a doubt, but it begs the question, where did you get the idea that a monger forum is a good place to find integrity? LOL Wink.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2700575]Azovstal steel plant utterly destroyed.[/QUOTE]Congratulations.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2700378]Krugman? That's your idea of third party confirmation? LOL. A prime example of the Nobel Dynomite awards degenerated to political theatre.[/QUOTE]For the Nobel Peace Prize (for not invading Austria). Obama, Mr Drone Man, was given it for being a whiter shade of non-pale. Kissinger was given it for murdering Vietnamese children. Our Hasbara troll here should get it for his non stop BS. After all Winston Churchill, the Anglo American drunk, got the Nobel Prize for Literature because the Peace one was already taken.
You got to love Americans, the most stupid fatties on the planet. That said, the question: who gets it right more often: the Simpsons or South Park? I go with South Park though I am not really a cartoon guy.
Funny all these attacks on peace maker Vlad Putin. Anyone know why he walks with a stiff right arm? (to stay near his gun, standard KGB operating procedure). Putin and his pals saved Russia, good people. Now they are saving Ukraine. And sending their remaining shit to Israel.
The game goes on but not, for the moment for me as I am still nursing injuries (age). I might watch a little of Scarface? You know what is the best part of the best Hollywood directors? They acknowledge their debt to Mother Russia (and France, of course).
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2700670]Paging comrade Krugman for third-party confirmation.[/QUOTE]Here's the quote, in context:
"By pointing out Mariupol's proximity to Russia, and the fact that it's taken nearly 3 months to overcome Ukrainian resistance, the clear conclusion is that any portrayal of it as a notable Russian "victory" is ludicrous.
And, at the time of my earlier post, there were conflicting reports as to whether all of the Ukrainian forces has surrendered or left. Please forgive me if I find your reference to an exclusively Russian source as less than persuasive. I prefer to wait for third-party confirmation, or the passage of a sufficient amount of time, as I never base any conclusion on official reports by either side".
So, as is incontestably apparent, to all but the delusional and (or) dishonest, the "third-party confirmation" phrase clearly refers to matters of fact. In this particular case it concerned the actual status of Ukrainian troops in Mariupol because, unlike your reliance on Russian propaganda, I refuse to rely on official sources from either side.
Once again you've dropped your pants and revealed how pathetic and puny your (intellectual) equipment is. Maybe you should invest in a prosthetic?
Or perhaps the problem is that you simply have difficulty differentiating fact from opinion? Here's a primer: Facts refer to things like reality-based events and circumstances that can be objectively verified. And, since objectivity is key, parties who have their own agendas are inherently problematic and confirmation by a reliable third party is both desirable and appropriate. None of that applies to matters of opinion. In that arena, there is no such thing as third-party "confirmation" because that only means that you've found another person who happens to agrees with a certain opinion.
Big fucking deal and so fucking what! You could have a million people agreeing with one side of a debatable issue (like the effects of Russian sanctions) and that still doesn't make it right. Debates are won by evidence and logic. But I guess those two concepts are like a foreign language to you, as is honesty. It must really suck for those in your circle of family and (if you have any) friends to have to endure the odious presence someone with your deceptive and manipulative tendencies. You should conduct an anonymous poll of your associates. I'm betting the results would be mind-blowingly, off-the-charts, negative. Oh, and I'd be happy to volunteer for third-party confirmation!
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2700688]Congratulations.[/QUOTE]It took three months, but after tucking tail and running out of Kyiv and Kharkiv, getting nowhere in the Donbas, and 20 K+ dead soldiers, more than was lost in nine years in Afghanistan, the "super power" finally has something to cheer about, Mariupol, a port city a few miles from their border. And they blew up 20 K plus civilians in the process. It's too bad this fell short of the May 9 celebration, quite a muted affair indeed. Wink.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2700688]Congratulations.[/QUOTE]Destroyed. Along with the nazi criminals, err evacuated freedom fighters who preferred to face trial in the Donetsk Republic which has the death penalty.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2700678]Without a doubt, but it begs the question, where did you get the idea that a monger forum is a good place to find integrity? LOL Wink.[/QUOTE]When people have the cloak of anonymity, their true nature comes out. They have no masks, no facades, and no social pressures to constrain them.
When there's a debate about a contentious topic, you can see exactly who is honest, reasonable, logical, etc. And you can clearly see who is not.
And I think that's proven true right here, as the vast majority of comments in this forum have been just fine. There have really only been a couple of pathetic losers who regularly resort to ad hominem and dishonesty, and everyone knows exactly who they are.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2700718]For the Nobel Peace Prize (for not invading Austria). Obama, Mr Drone Man, was given it for being a whiter shade of non-pale. Kissinger was given it for murdering Vietnamese children. Our Hasbara troll here should get it for his non stop BS. After all Winston Churchill, the Anglo American drunk, got the Nobel Prize for Literature because the Peace one was already taken.
You got to love Americans, the most stupid fatties on the planet. That said, the question: who gets it right more often: the Simpsons or South Park? I go with South Park though I am not really a cartoon guy.
Funny all these attacks on peace maker Vlad Putin. Anyone know why he walks with a stiff right arm? (to stay near his gun, standard KGB operating procedure). Putin and his pals saved Russia, good people. Now they are saving Ukraine. And sending their remaining shit to Israel.
The game goes on but not, for the moment for me as I am still nursing injuries (age). I might watch a little of Scarface? You know what is the best part of the best Hollywood directors? They acknowledge their debt to Mother Russia (and France, of course).[/QUOTE]Your insatiable man-crush on LilliPutin is something to behold! You just can't resist dropping little nuggets (or turds?) about Little Vlad's habits. When are you scheduled to have his baby?
About the Nobel Prize, about 962 people have received it over the history of the awards. And, while I'm sure there are examples that can be criticized or disagreed with, awards in the scientific categories are generally recognized as indicative of expertise in that discipline.
And, when someone is honored with a prize in physics, chemistry, physiology-medicine, or economic sciences, the specific discovery or body of work is detailed. There's certainly room for questioning the Peace Prize, as that has proven to be susceptible to political and popularity foibles. But there's no specific expertise associated with that award.
For the scientific discipline categories, however, if someone wants to assert that a prize is undeserved, then it's incumbent on them to demonstrate some error or deficiency with respect to the specific discovery, or body of work, for which the award was given.
BTW, I'd nominate Putin for the Nobel Peace Prize if he'd be so accommodating as to unholster his KGB gun and blow his own fucking brains out. That would be the clearest and best path to peace. And that goes double if he'd take out Shoigu at the same time. I'd add Gerasimov, but no one's seen him lately. So I'm guessing Putin already took care of him.
Fascinating letter which recognizes (and criticizes) the failure of the "special operation" and calls for full mobilization and total war.
[URL]https://m-kalashnikov.livejournal.com/4243623.html[/URL]
Here's the opening section:
"We, veterans of the Armed Forces and special services of Russia, united in the All-Russian Officers' Assembly, together with the majority of our people, enthusiastically supported the decision of the President of the Russian Federation and Supreme Commander-in-Chief V. V. Putin on the conduct of a special military operation for the armed protection of the inhabitants of the DPR and LPR, the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine. At the same time, carefully analyzing the course of almost three months of hostilities, we came to the conclusion that the special military operation that began on February 24, unfortunately, ended in failure: after a month of hostilities, Russian troops retreated from the captured bridgeheads near Kyiv, left the liberated territories in Sumy and Chernihiv regions in the north and Mykolaiv region in the south of the so-called Ukraine. All this happened under the pretext of displaying the "good will" of the President of the Russian Federation. But the question naturally arose in our minds: whose evil will was carried out by citizen V. Putin, giving the troops a humiliating order to retreat".
And there's much more. This letter is an eye-opening look at the delusion, paranoia, and warped world-view that underpin Russian support for this war, and should be required reading for anyone who believes there's a rational basis for negotiations, or common ground of any kind. In fact, these war-hawk extremists are those who, if Putin ends up getting deposed or sidelined, will most likely be responsible. And then one of their leaders will be calling the shots, both figuratively and literally.
Note: The letter is in Russian so you'll need to use your preferred translation method. Opening the link with the Chrome browser is one easy way, as the translation prompt should open automatically.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700756]When people have the cloak of anonymity, their true nature comes out. They have no masks, no facades, and no social pressures to constrain them.
When there's a debate about a contentious topic, you can see exactly who is honest, reasonable, logical, etc. And you can clearly see who is not.
And I think that's proven true right here, as the vast majority of comments in this forum have been just fine. There have really only been a couple of pathetic losers who regularly resort to ad hominem and dishonesty, and everyone knows exactly who they are.[/QUOTE]You are a bit sequestered here though the word is beginning to get out. Drop in on the American Politics thread in the Opinions section or Stupid Shit in Medellin under Colombia. It's a swarm of logical fallacies, the whole spectrum from straw men to proof by repetition, non-sequiturs to ad hominems and tu quoque, you name it. You'll also get a steady diet of the rightwingnut fake news of the day from youtubes, blogs, and Russian state media. A few of the guys you go at here are found there plus many more.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700765]Your insatiable man-crush on LilliPutin is something to behold! You just can't resist dropping little nuggets (or turds?) about Little Vlad's habits. When are you scheduled to have his baby?
About the Nobel Prize, about 962 people have received it over the history of the awards. And, while I'm sure there are examples that can be criticized or disagreed with, awards in the scientific categories are generally recognized as indicative of expertise in that discipline.
And, when someone is honored with a prize in physics, chemistry, physiology-medicine, or economic sciences, the specific discovery or body of work is detailed. There's certainly room for questioning the Peace Prize, as that has proven to be susceptible to political and popularity foibles. But there's no specific expertise associated with that award.
For the scientific discipline categories, however, if someone wants to assert that a prize is undeserved, then it's incumbent on them to demonstrate some error or deficiency with respect to the specific discovery, or body of work, for which the award was given.
BTW, I'd nominate Putin for the Nobel Peace Prize if he'd be so accommodating as to unholster his KGB gun and blow his own fucking brains out. That would be the clearest and best path to peace. And that goes double if he'd take out Shoigu at the same time. I'd add Gerasimov, but no one's seen him lately. So I'm guessing Putin already took care of him.[/QUOTE]You know I don't really get what any of that has to do with anything. If you've read one of Pedro's posts you've read them all. Yes he believes all of Russia's state propaganda. Yes he hates America, Jews, and blacks. He's elderly as he tells us with health problems and is angry as hell. As the idiom so tells us, there's nothing to see here. At least nothing new or the least bit sophisticated or creative. Even all the insults are juvenile and repetitive. Yawns. You are his new mark I guess as everyone pretty much quit paying attention to him in American politics, and he quit showing up in the Colombia forum. He of course has never been there.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2700678]Without a doubt, but it begs the question, where did you get the idea that a monger forum is a good place to find integrity? LOL Wink.[/QUOTE]Certainly an eye-opening thread here, I would say. We have at least one member / comrade / cheerleader who seems to have benefited (or should I say suffered) from Soviet education and propaganda.
It's kind of bizarre hearing the neo-Marxist perspective recited to attack America and the West. Putin and friends are so far removed from basic Marxist tenets on the distribution of wealth and capital. Basically, Russia over the last thirty years has stripped away the veneer of societal good from the Soviet days and revealed the brutal murderers and thugs.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700640]Funny what can happen when people feel that the anonymity of a crowd enables them to speak freely. I haven't seen an estimate of the crowd size, but it appears to be in the thousands and possibly the tens of thousands.
[URL]https://www.indiatoday.in/world/russia-ukraine-war/story/russians-chant-slogan-anti-ukraine-war-concert-video-1953371-2022-05-24[/URL]
And it's worth noting that St. Petersburg is one of the premier centers of ethnic Russia, and somewhere you'd expect pro-Putin sentiment to be at its highest. It'll be interesting to see what kinds of measures the Kremlin puts in place to ensure this doesn't happen again.[/QUOTE]This certainly doesn't surprise anyone. Measuring Russian support for the war certainly depends on who you ask.
Given the cataclysmic events of the early 90's, one might expect older Russians to be more supportive of Russian intervention in the Ukraine. Younger Russians generally don't give a fuck.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2700976]Certainly an eye-opening thread here, I would say. We have at least one member / comrade / cheerleader who seems to have benefited (or should I say suffered) from Soviet education and propaganda.
It's kind of bizarre hearing the neo-Marxist perspective recited to attack America and the West. Putin and friends are so far removed from basic Marxist tenets on the distribution of wealth and capital. Basically, Russia over the last thirty years has stripped away the veneer of societal good from the Soviet days and revealed the brutal murderers and thugs.[/QUOTE]If you speak of Pedro then I think you way overestimate him. He's a garden variety online attention seeker. It started with deriding Americans for inventing and eating cheeseburgers while he talked of wanting to beat them up as he felt they were too loud in the Euro brothels. Since the war started it's Putin promotion, and the "education" consists of online blogs and new sources made for morons, or at best, the masses. Who knows where he went to school but likely didn't go far. If you were speaking of someone else then scratch all that.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2700851]You are a bit sequestered here though the word is beginning to get out. Drop in on the American Politics thread in the Opinions section or Stupid Shit in Medellin under Colombia. It's a swarm of logical fallacies, the whole spectrum from straw men to proof by repetition, non-sequiturs to ad hominems and tu quoque, you name it. You'll also get a steady diet of the rightwingnut fake news of the day from youtubes, blogs, and Russian state media. A few of the guys you go at here are found there plus many more.[/QUOTE]What seems to be going on over there, although I'm no expert, is a mutual masturbation society in which each participant "gets off" by scoring (usually in their own minds) meaningless points about issues that will never be settled and will always be subject to debate.
Left vs Right, Democrat vs Republican, and Progressive vs Conservative are division lines that have existed for a long time, and will continue to do so. I have zero interest in participating in that kind of environment.
In contrast, even though this is only a "Stupid Shit" thread on an anonymous fuckboard, there are genuine issues being discussed, many of them with important implications for people currently in Ukraine or Russia, planning to travel to either of those countries, or affected by ancillary issues.
I have no great illusions about who reads this forum. I'm well aware it caters to mongers. BUT, those mongers have regular lives, with regular families and friends, so if I'm able to find and post info they haven't seen elsewhere, I view that as a positive thing. And I similarly see it as a positive if I'm able to debunk misleading or propagandistic posts. What I care about is not leaving a vacuum that gets filled with BS by bottom-feeders like the Pedrito-Golfito twins.
And it also helps that I personally care about both countries, having had many friends and lovers (including one fiancee) from Russia and Ukraine. And I'm currently dealing with a close Ukrainian friend, from a pro-Russian area, who is struggling with divided loyalties.
In other words, if not for the real-world issues at stake, and the connections (real or potential) to actual people, I wouldn't be here. As for those other forums, and debate (or posting) for its own sake, I'm simply not interested.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2700861]You know I don't really get what any of that has to do with anything. If you've read one of Pedro's posts you've read them all. Yes he believes all of Russia's state propaganda. Yes he hates America, Jews, and blacks. He's elderly as he tells us with health problems and is angry as hell. As the idiom so tells us, there's nothing to see here. At least nothing new or the least bit sophisticated or creative. Even all the insults are juvenile and repetitive. Yawns. You are his new mark I guess as everyone pretty much quit paying attention to him in American politics, and he quit showing up in the Colombia forum. He of course has never been there.[/QUOTE]Please don't confuse my responses to him as any kind of attempt to convince or persuade, as I'm well aware that he exists in a delusional bubble of his own creation.
Most of the time my responses are to poke fun at him, or show how Putin is a ridicule-worthy "Emperor Who Has No Clothes," or simply to ensure that his bile-filled posts don't exist in a vacuum. And, when I talk about Pedrito, I include his clone (Golfito), as well.
And I'm fine with being the "new mark" for one, or both, as I regularly give much better than they can dish out. I must confess, it is an enjoyable experience when I wipe the debate-floor with them.
Hope that clarifies things.
It's a good read and gives some insight into dysfunctions within the Russian govt, and the prevailing mentality in Moscow, from the perspective of a career officer in the Foreign Ministry.
Here's the article on the original website. It's paywalled but you should see a link at the bottom that allows you to view one article for free. If you don't see that link, try clearing cache and cookies and give it another go:
[URL]https://puck.news/ukraine-must-win-a-kremlin-defector-tells-all/[/URL]
If that doesn't work for you, here's an archived version:
[URL]https://archive.ph/Vh8hb[/URL]
His overall conclusion: Ukraine must win!
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2700979]This certainly doesn't surprise anyone. Measuring Russian support for the war certainly depends on who you ask.
Given the cataclysmic events of the early 90's, one might expect older Russians to be more supportive of Russian intervention in the Ukraine. Younger Russians generally don't give a fuck.[/QUOTE]He discusses how the Kremlin-dwellers are freaked out about the views and mindset of the younger generation.
In an environment that's under near-total govt control, you look for signals wherever you can find them. This is one of those, IMO, as are the spate of recent fires and "accidents" across Russia. Sabotage, especially something like fire-bombing a conscription office, is more of a younger person's cup of chai, although not always so.
It'll be interesting to see if there's any govt response to the concert, whether public or behind the scenes. Either way, I'll be watching for the next set of signaling events from the younger crowd.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2701081]Please don't confuse my responses to him as any kind of attempt to convince or persuade, as I'm well aware that he exists in a delusional bubble of his own creation.
Most of the time my responses are to poke fun at him, or show how Putin is a ridicule-worthy "Emperor Who Has No Clothes," or simply to ensure that his bile-filled posts don't exist in a vacuum. And, when I talk about Pedrito, I include his clone (Golfito), as well..[/QUOTE]Check out your posts in Medellin shit. Not much gets much shitier than that. You have nothing to contribute. You actually clog up threads and are a main reason the mod uses these threads as garbage dumps.
He does that to increase the information to noise ratio on the others. Golfito obviously limits his posts for the same reason.
You Americans do not belong in Europe or an where else, as your most recent school shooting shows. You are sick fucks.
Your (collective) posts here show that. God knows why Europe is allowing American destroy it but that is where we are.
I thought some of you might like the attached poem which summarises American culture (sic).
I see the USA has today stolen an Iranian oil tanker. Tick tock, says the clock.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2701205]Check out your posts in Medellin shit. Not much gets much shitier than that. You have nothing to contribute. You actually clog up threads and are a main reason the mod uses these threads as garbage dumps.
He does that to increase the information to noise ratio on the others. Golfito obviously limits his posts for the same reason.
You Americans do not belong in Europe or an where else, as your most recent school shooting shows. You are sick fucks.
Your (collective) posts here show that. God knows why Europe is allowing American destroy it but that is where we are.[/QUOTE]Not sure what you're talking about, as I have no posts in any Medellin forum. Maybe your rabies hallucinations have now extended to ISG?
Posting a plethora of threads that contribute nothing other than one's own opinion, backed up by zero links to articles, or other references, would certainly leave one open to criticism about clogging up threads. That's actually a pretty apt description of your posting style.
In stark contrast, I've gone out of my way to find and post items that provide information that's not always found in general media sources. The most recent examples include the extended interview of Bondarev and the letter to Putin from retired Russian officers. Whether or not you agree with what I've posted is irrelevant and immaterial. The plain truth of the matter is that I've gone out of my way to add to the level of facts and evidence in this forum.
You, OTOH, are a one-note nanny-goat bleating out incessant anti-Americanism. You contribute nothing but bile, and that seems to be your overarching modus operandi. And it's hilarious how, as you raise your blood pressure to aneurysm levels, Americans just laugh at you and continue to move onward and upward. America is used to the jealousy of pipsqueaks, and the pipsqueaks should know that by now.
Just think, with the growth of NATO and clamoring demand for US-led NATO troops to be stationed in new European locales, you might just be lucky enough to have a NATO base as your neighbor. Wouldn't that be something? ROTFL!
'The War Won't End Until Putin Loses'.
[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/why-ukraine-must-defeat-putin-russia/629940/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2701519]'The War Won't End Until Putin Loses'.
[URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/why-ukraine-must-defeat-putin-russia/629940/[/URL][/QUOTE]The Atlantic Magazine. The mouthpiece of Liberal Zionism. No greater source for your echo chamber than Jeffrey Goldberg. Now, go bleat-bleat anti-seemite.
How to deal with Russia and Ukraine by Kissinger and Soros.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/dueling-approaches-to-world-order-war-ukraine-putin-russia-china-davos-kissinger-soros-foreign-policy-peace-11653509537[/URL]
A reminder of the Churchilian way of dealing with such situations "When Winston Churchill, a man who demonstrated both Sorosian and Kissingerian characteristics through his long career, was asked about postwar planning in 1942, he replied with words Western leaders should remember today. "I hope these speculative studies will be entrusted mainly to those on whose hands time hangs heavy, and that we shall not overlook Mrs. Glasse's Cookery Book recipe for jugged hare'First catch your hare.'"
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2701500] Meaningless bla bla ROTFL![/QUOTE]One of the other Yanks has just posted a link to the Atlantic, not worth reading as it is NATO BS for morons.
I quickly glanced at the Philippines thread / Guys doing their Dear Diary stuff, low information to noise ratio but the mod is necessarily happy with that. He (don't know his pronouns for sure but) also has to deal with the strange issue of photos on the Indian board but that is his call and is of no importance to me. His game, his football.
Let's get on to your bs, which resembles that on transsexuals etc on the Medellin Stupid Shit board. Most posts like yours are not worth reading as they contain no worthwhile information.
You assume if you spew shit on and on, it makes it worth reading. It doesn't. I am on no meds as I like to minimize all shit into my body. That is why I am not vaccinated (sic).
The key to trailer trash like you in in the American women / politics threads. They could be interesting and informative but trailer trash just swamp them.
As regards Ukraine, Russia is winning hands down in the East. The USA is happy to fight to the last Ukrainian and America's NATO puppets seem also happy, at least for now.
Russia will win the east and Nato will make another corrupt Kosovo of the West (Someone is making a fortune with all that US aid). Closer to America's mid terms and hard times this winter in Europe, we might get, if not our omelette, at least our cracked eggs.
Zhukov got to Berlin, Tsar Alexander to Paris. Let's see what happens when hard times hit. You keep on with hijacking ships, shooting up schools and eating hamburgers. Russians don't pull the belt in, They eat the belt.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2701623]One of the other Yanks has just posted a link to the Atlantic, not worth reading as it is NATO BS for morons.
I quickly glanced at the Philippines thread / Guys doing their Dear Diary stuff, low information to noise ratio but the mod is necessarily happy with that. He (don't know his pronouns for sure but) also has to deal with the strange issue of photos on the Indian board but that is his call and is of no importance to me. His game, his football.
Let's get on to your bs, which resembles that on transsexuals etc on the Medellin Stupid Shit board. Most posts like yours are not worth reading as they contain no worthwhile information.
You assume if you spew shit on and on, it makes it worth reading. It doesn't. I am on no meds as I like to minimize all shit into my body. That is why I am not vaccinated (sic).
The key to trailer trash like you in in the American women / politics threads. They could be interesting and informative but trailer trash just swamp them.
As regards Ukraine, Russia is winning hands down in the East. The USA is happy to fight to the last Ukrainian and America's NATO puppets seem also happy, at least for now.[/QUOTE]Not sure where you get your pseudo-facts about the progress of the war but, judging from your past posts, you either get them from kool-aid drinking Russia propagandists or just pull them out of your ass. Or maybe you consult with the transsexuals from Medellin? Goodness knows, you sure love to talk about them a lot (LOL)!
In stark contrast, I studiously avoid propaganda from either side, though it's fair to note that Ukrainian official statements have been more measured while those from the Kremlin resemble the ramblings of Baghdad Bob!
But here's an independent analysis of how things are going, and it's generally updated daily:
[URL]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-may-26[/URL]
One good feature of this site is that you can compare daily summaries and maps to get a sense of either side's progress and setbacks. Here's the most recent entry:
"May 26,6:30 pm ET.
Russian forces have made steady, incremental gains in heavy fighting in eastern Ukraine in the past several days, though Ukrainian defenses remain effective overall. Deputy Ukrainian Defense Minister Hanna Malyar stated that the fighting is currently at its "maximum intensity" compared to previous Russian assaults and will likely continue to escalate. (1) Spokesperson for the Ukrainian Defense Ministry Oleksandr Motuzyanyk characterized Russian gains as "temporary success" and stated that Ukrainian forces are using a maneuver defense to put pressure on Russian advances in key areas. (2) Russian forces have now taken control of over 95% of Luhansk Oblast and will likely continue efforts to complete the capture of Severodonetsk in the coming days. (3) Russian forces have made several gains in the past week, but their offensive operations remain slow. Russian forces are heavily degraded and will struggle to replace further losses.
Key Takeaways.
Russian forces unsuccessfully attempted to advance southeast of Izyum near the Kharkiv-Donetsk Oblast border.
Russian forces continued steady advances around Severodonetsk and likely seek to completely encircle the Severodonetsk-Lysychansk area in the coming days.
Russian forces continued to make persistent advances south and west of Popasna toward Bakhmut, but the Russian pace of advance will likely slow as they approach the town itself.
Russian forces in occupied areas of the Southern Axis are reportedly preparing a "third line of defense" to consolidate long-term control over the region and in preparation to repel likely future Ukrainian counteroffensives".
Anyone trying to predict the future, especially in a wartime situation, is a certifiable imbecile, and you certainly fit that profile. I'm happy to monitor the progress of actual events, which tend to speak for themselves. And at least one thing is crystal clear, the Russian army controls much less territory now than they did at the beginning of the invasion. Funny how the Kremlin spin doctors try to portray a humiliating retreat as something else. But their efforts fell flat and poor LilliPutin had nothing he could report in his "Victory" Day speech.
BTW, as far as all your anti-American caterwauling is concerned, to paraphrase the immortal phrase from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, I (and all Americans) fart in your general direction! And that's probably more effort than your pathetic, self-loathing, existence deserves.
P.S. Today's Russians are far removed from those who fought in WW-II. So it remains to be seen how much, if any, belt-leather chewing they're willing to endure. Also, the USSR would have totally collapsed before Hitler's army had it not been for the HUGE amount of Lend-Lease support from (wait for it) America! Do a web search for yourself, I dare you.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2701081]Please don't confuse my responses to him as any kind of attempt to convince or persuade, as I'm well aware that he exists in a delusional bubble of his own creation.
Most of the time my responses are to poke fun at him, or show how Putin is a ridicule-worthy "Emperor Who Has No Clothes," or simply to ensure that his bile-filled posts don't exist in a vacuum. And, when I talk about Pedrito, I include his clone (Golfito), as well.
And I'm fine with being the "new mark" for one, or both, as I regularly give much better than they can dish out. I must confess, it is an enjoyable experience when I wipe the debate-floor with them.
Hope that clarifies things.[/QUOTE]I'm enjoying your posts.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2701085]It's a good read and gives some insight into dysfunctions within the Russian govt, and the prevailing mentality in Moscow, from the perspective of a career officer in the Foreign Ministry.
Here's the article on the original website. It's paywalled but you should see a link at the bottom that allows you to view one article for free. If you don't see that link, try clearing cache and cookies and give it another go:
[URL]https://puck.news/ukraine-must-win-a-kremlin-defector-tells-all/[/URL]
If that doesn't work for you, here's an archived version:
[URL]https://archive.ph/Vh8hb[/URL]
His overall conclusion: Ukraine must win![/QUOTE]From the interview.
"Today, Henry Kissinger said that Ukraine should find a compromise with Russia and cede some of its territory. What do you think of that? Is it time to negotiate a ceasefire?
'No way. You can't. You just can't make peace now. If you do, it will be seen as a Russian victory. Russia will spend a couple years scraping together some resources and then it will do this again. This won't teach them anything. Only a total and clear defeat that is obvious to everyone will teach them. That's why Putin is so scared of losing, that's why the nuclear threat keeps coming up, because it's his last trump card. That's why I think it's so important to make clear to these people who think, we can hit America or Poland with a nuclear weapon and nothing will happen to us, to show them that, yes, it will. As soon as your finger starts creeping toward the nuclear button, something will happen. That's the only way.'"
The Iranian Navy (IRGC) have captured two Greek tankers in the Persian Gulf in retaliation for Greek and US pirates stealing an Iranian tanker. The 5th Paper Tiger navy is looking into it. Tick tock. Bye bye to your empire of evil.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700772]Fascinating letter which recognizes (and criticizes) the failure of the "special operation" and calls for full mobilization and total war.
[URL]https://m-kalashnikov.livejournal.com/4243623.html[/URL]
Here's the opening section:
"We, veterans of the Armed Forces and special services of Russia, united in the All-Russian Officers' Assembly, together with the majority of our people, enthusiastically supported the decision of the President of the Russian Federation and Supreme Commander-in-Chief V. V. Putin on the conduct of a special military operation for the armed protection of the inhabitants of the DPR and LPR, the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine. At the same time, carefully analyzing the course of almost three months of hostilities, we came to the conclusion that the special military operation that began on February 24, unfortunately, ended in failure: after a month of hostilities, Russian troops retreated from the captured bridgeheads near Kyiv, left the liberated territories in Sumy and Chernihiv regions in the north and Mykolaiv region in the south of the so-called Ukraine. All this happened under the pretext of displaying the "good will" of the President of the Russian Federation. But the question naturally arose in our minds: whose evil will was carried out by citizen V. Putin, giving the troops a humiliating order to retreat".
And there's much more. This letter is an eye-opening look at the delusion, paranoia, and warped world-view that underpin Russian support for this war, and should be required reading for anyone who believes there's a rational basis for negotiations, or common ground of any kind. In fact, these war-hawk extremists are those who, if Putin ends up getting deposed or sidelined, will most likely be responsible. And then one of their leaders will be calling the shots, both figuratively and literally.
Note: The letter is in Russian so you'll need to use your preferred translation method. Opening the link with the Chrome browser is one easy way, as the translation prompt should open automatically.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]enthusiastically supported the decision of the President of the Russian Federation and Supreme Commander-in-Chief V. V. Putin on the conduct of a special military operation for the armed protection of the inhabitants of the DPR and LPR, the demilitarization and denazification of Ukraine.[/QUOTE]A bunch of scumbags who love killing Ukrainians, but protest that's it's less efficient than they'd like to see. In all seriousness, there is nothing eye-opening about this letter. It's completely in line with the views of Girkin-Strelkov, the original "paramilitary" commander in Donbass and former FSB operative. This letter has all the markings of the under-the-rug struggle between [I]Siloviki[/I].
It's either sheer idiocy or treachery to even presume that Russians would be satisfied with the lands they've already conquered. Whatever peace deal the French and Italians are trying to push on Ukraine won't be worth the ink or the paper.
[QUOTE]The second assumption made by those advocating off-ramps is that Russia, even if it were to begin negotiating, would stick to the agreements it signed. Even an ordinary cease-fire has to involve concessions on both sides, and anything more substantive would require a longer list of pledges and promises. But brazen dishonesty is now a normal part of Russian foreign policy as well as domestic propaganda.[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/05/why-ukraine-must-defeat-putin-russia/629940/[/URL]
Ukrainians have to keep fighting not because it's their choice, but because they have no choice. Some western countries must stop smoking whatever they're smoking and give them every weapon in the world they need. Because the West doesn't have a choice either. Carthage must be, well, neutralized.
"The borders of Russia do not end anywhere" - Putin.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou8mI_ce80s[/URL]
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2701766]A bunch of scumbags who love killing Ukrainians, but protest that's it's less efficient than they'd like to see. In all seriousness, there is nothing eye-opening about this letter. It's completely in line with the views of Girkin-Strelkov, the original "paramilitary" commander in Donbass and former FSB operative. This letter has all the markings of the under-the-rug struggle between [I]Siloviki[/I].[/QUOTE]To begin with, I agree with your characterization, in this and your other recent post, of Putin as a murderous evil dictator with dreams of (at least) pan-European domination. For those people who have understood that reality from the beginning, this letter reveals nothing new.
But for those, no matter how well-intentioned, who mistakenly project their own framework of rationality and diplomacy on the Kremlin, this letter (and similar disclosures) should begin the process of opening eyes and hammering home the truth that nothing less than a comprehensive Russian defeat will suffice. Using a European example, I would assert that the Baltics and Poland, at a minimum, have already arrived at the "comprehensive defeat" position. Other countries not so much, as reflected in recent calls for "a few" Ukrainian territorial concessions.
Pulling back the propaganda-curtain, and the facade of "reasonableness" is a process more than an event. And during that process there will be those who refuse to acknowledge the clear evidence even if it's rubbed in their faces. Others will be slow, but will see and understand, and yet others will be shouting "What took you so long?" in exasperated voices. I'm hoping that the constant drip-drip of these kinds of disclosures ends up turning into a flood such that those who aren't (or are trying not to be) engaged will be unable to ignore it.
Funny to see the American ghetto dwellers lose their shit. As well as two Greek tankers to Iran because of American piracy. I haven't read the resident troll here as I am still battling recent injuries (three plus weeks, killing me) and the chimp has nothing worthwhile to say anyway.
If you are American, best you check out the Grand Canyon, Disneyland (no oil LOL) or some other place you have totally cleansed of locals.
Zelensky sues for peace (yawn) and addresses Stanford students, which makes sense. Moronic Ivy league graduates being addressed by a gangster who plays the piano with his cock and a guitar in the nude.
Hugh Hefner without Viagra.
How much to fuck a Stanford Ivy Leaguer? Is CIM extra? More or less than a Ukrainian and are hamburgers extra?
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/generalsvr_en/status/1530125712476225536[/URL]
This Twitter account claims that the info they publish is obtained from active and retired intel personnel with sources within Russia. I have no way to verify that claim, but their threads do make for some interesting reading. Reality is the ultimate source of confirmation and verification, of course, so the true test will be whether or not any of the predictions actually play out.
With that caveat, this is posted in a "something to watch out for" sense. In this particular case, the key event is whether Putin's daughter, Katerina Tikhonova, will be elevated to the top leadership position of Putin's United Russia party. Patrushev, the plan's other component, is already on the Kremlin leadership team so not much more needs to happen with respect to him. It's Tikhonova's chess piece that still needs to be moved into position.
The entire (short) thread is worth reading. Here's an excerpt (2nd to last para):
"Those with access to #Putin's ears view Tikhonova as the only possible guarantor of the stability of the regime without being a direct successor. Being the head of the ruling party & effectively running the State Duma & the Senat, Tikhonova would counterbalance any president."
So the succession plan would involve co-leadership roles for Patrushev and Tikhonova. And, while I'm sure some will reply with all the reasons such an arrangement won't work (I can think of quite a few, myself), that's not the point. The important issue is whether or not the Kremlin elite, faced with few good post-Putin options, might see this as a solution that ensures near-term stability and continuity.
Also, there's always the possibility that Putin will be able to manage his health problems and hang on for longer than expected, which would render this succession plan moot, or at least put on hold. Only time will tell, but I'll be watching for any Tikhonova-related news.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2701748]The Iranian Navy (IRGC) have captured two Greek tankers in the Persian Gulf in retaliation for Greek and US pirates stealing an Iranian tanker. The 5th Paper Tiger navy is looking into it. Tick tock. Bye bye to your empire of evil.[/QUOTE]You really should start a fan club for anti-American pipsqueaks. You could host meetings with pot-luck dinners featuring Iranian-North Korean fusion cuisine! How does kimchi goat & rat casserole sound? Garnished, of course, with strips of the finest Russian belt leather!
Seriously, for how many decades have the Ayatollah's butt-boys been screaming "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" at the top of their lungs? And yet both America and Israel are hanging in there just fine. In fact, with the recently enacted Abraham Accords, Israel now has diplomatic relations with Arab countries who were former enemies. And, in case you've forgotten, the Arabs hate the Persians.
Oh yes, and as far as navies are concerned, "Remember the Moskva" is a phrase that comes to mind.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2701812]Funny to see the American ghetto dwellers lose their shit. As well as two Greek tankers to Iran because of American piracy. I haven't read the resident troll here as I am still battling recent injuries (three plus weeks, killing me) and the chimp has nothing worthwhile to say anyway.
If you are American, best you check out the Grand Canyon, Disneyland (no oil LOL) or some other place you have totally cleansed of locals.
Zelensky sues for peace (yawn) and addresses Stanford students, which makes sense. Moronic Ivy league graduates being addressed by a gangster who plays the piano with his cock and a guitar in the nude.
Hugh Hefner without Viagra.
How much to fuck a Stanford Ivy Leaguer? Is CIM extra? More or less than a Ukrainian and are hamburgers extra?[/QUOTE]Do you have any idea how transparently lame that is? Are you really so deluded that you think you're fooling anyone? I guess you're a perfect example of the truism that, just like a person who stinks becomes nose-blind to their own smell, so will an idiot be blind to their own idiocy.
Too bad for you that everyone else in the forum can clearly see (and smell) the truth.
BTW, you really should find some new sources of anti-American insults. Your current stock is apparently getting thin and you're repeating yourself often. Unless, of course, bitter and miserable rage is also making you forgetful.
But really, more variety would be appreciated as it makes it easier for Americans to have a hearty laugh as they proceed on their upward trajectory! It's amazing how, the same Europe that LilliPutin craved for himself is the Europe that he's pushed away and right into the arms of America!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2701818] for anti-American pipsqueaks. Iranian-North Korean kimchi rat casserole Ayatollah's butt-boys "Death to America" and "Death to Israel" the Arabs hate the Persians.
.[/QUOTE]Leaving the rank racism to one side, though Iran is the world's main Shia nation, many "Arabs", not least in Lebanon, are Shia. There are many Sunni in Iran though Bigot man here would not know that. Plus lots of Christians, Alawi, Druze, Yezidi and other minorities. I think we can all agree that the bigotry, racism and supremacism Mr Hasbara where displays is going to bit back in a big way.
Let's all salute Iran, who paid back American pirates in kind.
Let's all salute British mercenaries Shaun Pinner and Andrew Hill and Moroccan Ibrahim Saadoun, who face justice in liberated Ukraine. Russian military spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov said earlier that the best thing the foreign mercenaries could expect was a "long term in prison. " żTwo scumbags swinging at the end of ropes might send a clear message back to Blighty, no?
Joe is at it again, LOL.
PRES. BIDEN.
A SECOND -- DID ANYBODY THINK ON OUR CALL FOR SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA, IN ADDITION TO NATO? TO Australia? Japan. NORTH Korea, WHICH STAND UP AND SUPPORT THOSE SANCTIONS. THE WORLD IS MOVING SO RAPIDLY. I NEED NOT TELL YOU AVIATORS, WITHIN THE NEXT DECADE, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CIRCUMVENT;.
[URL]https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5016937/user-clip-biden-mistakenly-north-korea-stood-putin[/URL]
[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10862129/amp/Biden-raises-eyebrows-saying-North-Korea-stood-against-Russia.html[/URL]
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2701733]From the interview.
"Today, Henry Kissinger said that Ukraine should find a compromise with Russia and cede some of its territory. What do you think of that? Is it time to negotiate a ceasefire?
'No way. You can't. You just can't make peace now. If you do, it will be seen as a Russian victory. Russia will spend a couple years scraping together some resources and then it will do this again. This won't teach them anything. Only a total and clear defeat that is obvious to everyone will teach them...........[/QUOTE]I don't think Putin will live to see the Russians scrape enough resources to do serious harm. Even if Russia is pushed out of Eastern Ukraine, I think they will continue to fuck with their weaker neighbors. Possibly they will fuck with weak countries as a way to save some face from the Ukraine debacle.
I believe inherently there are Munich 1938 recollections. Hitler's Germany was relatively stronger and Europe weaker in the late 1930's.
A complete collapse of the Russian government could be a lot more volatile and dangerous than some Russian tanks. I believe that's what Kissinger fears. The optimal result is a subtle transition of power to less militaristic leadership. Yes, I know. That's optimistic.
QUOTE=PedroMorales.
Let's all salute Iran.
Let's all.
QUOTE.
Saluting Iran when its Free from Mullahs Rule.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qfEJPjWFoEw[/URL]
QUOTE=Jmsuttr.
And, in case you've forgotten, the Arabs hate the Persians.
QUOTE.
No Love Lost in Iran as Iran occupies their Land according to sources [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_separatism_in_Khuzestan[/URL].
"Since the 1920's, tensions have often resulted in violence and attempted separatism, including the insurgency in 1979, unrest in 2005, terrorist bombings in 20052006, protests in 2011, assassinations in 2017, and the 2018 Ahvaz military parade attack.
Iran officially denies any discrimination or the existence of conflict within the country. It has however drawn strong criticism from human rights organizations including accusations of ethnic discrimination and ethnic cleansing. '.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2701957]Leaving the rank racism to one side, though Iran is the world's main Shia nation, many "Arabs", not least in Lebanon, are Shia. There are many Sunni in Iran though Bigot man here would not know that. Plus lots of Christians, Alawi, Druze, Yezidi and other minorities. I think we can all agree that the bigotry, racism and supremacism Mr Hasbara where displays is going to bit back in a big way.
Let's all salute Iran, who paid back American pirates in kind.
Let's all salute British mercenaries Shaun Pinner and Andrew Hill and Moroccan Ibrahim Saadoun, who face justice in liberated Ukraine. Russian military spokesman Major General Igor Konashenkov said earlier that the best thing the foreign mercenaries could expect was a "long term in prison. " Two scumbags swinging at the end of ropes might send a clear message back to Blighty, no?[/QUOTE]The post to which you replied had literally one sentence that tangentially mentioned Arab-Persian attitudes, and wasn't even the main point of the post. As usual, you try to make mountains out of molehills and end up looking stupid.
Had Arab-Persian relations been my main point, I would have posted relevant articles to support my assertions. I'm happy to do so now and, as always, people are invited to read, make up their own minds, and join the debate if they want. Of course, since this is a forum dedicated to issues pertaining to Kyiv and Ukraine, I don't know if anyone will want to follow you down that particular anti-American rabbit hole.
But, for anyone interested in the topic of Arab vs Persian animosity (which goes both ways), I would invite them to do a brief web search. It took me less than a minute to find several articles, one of which features an interview of an Iranian intellectual, explaining the hatred in both historical and cultural contexts.
[URL]https://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2011%2F10%2F09%2F170927[/URL]
Also, since you mention minorities in Iran as though all is harmonious, here's an article detailing the Iranian regime's treatment of minority groups:
[URL]https://www.arabnews.com/node/1822151/middle-east[/URL]
There are varying levels of evidence suitable for inclusion in an informed debate. Pure opinion, with zero substantiation, is so low that it's not even worthy of being classified as evidence. You continue to search for water in the Sahara of your own desiccated mind, looking for things to say, no matter how stupid. And you continue to twist and mischaracterize what others post. Not to worry, as I'll always be here to expose how empty of substance (albeit full to the brim with bile!) your pseudo-arguments are. Better luck next time!
P.S. Pointing out a true and verifiable fact, namely the existence of a current (and centuries old) hatred between Arabs and Persians, can only be portrayed as racist or bigoted by someone who either chooses to ignore the facts, or is unable to construct a substantive rebuttal. In other words, it's simply a variant of ad hominem employed by those who can't come up with anything better. A truly lame, despicable, and desperate tactic.
Being grounded and pounded in the East, as their wives are pounded elsewhere. EU crying for talks, as is that idiot Zelensky.
Von der Leyen saying to buy Russian oil to stop Russia selling it elsewhere. Now you know why you cannot be taken seriously.
Greece made a big mistake helping the USA steal that tanker of oil. 25% of tankers off the Iranian coast, that can easily be made an Iranian lake, fly the Greek flag.
Go back to your hamburgers and school shootings.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2702072]I don't think Putin will live to see the Russians scrape enough resources to do serious harm. Even if Russia is pushed out of Eastern Ukraine, I think they will continue to fuck with their weaker neighbors. Possibly they will fuck with weak countries as a way to save some face from the Ukraine debacle.
I believe inherently there are Munich 1938 recollections. Hitler's Germany was relatively stronger and Europe weaker in the late 1930's.
A complete collapse of the Russian government could be a lot more volatile and dangerous than some Russian tanks. I believe that's what Kissinger fears. The optimal result is a subtle transition of power to less militaristic leadership. Yes, I know. That's optimistic.[/QUOTE]Kissinger's "fears" aren't helpful. Western fear has been a lot of the problem when it comes to a slowed response and reluctance to send offensive weapons. Russia has no integrity, and any ceasefire just gives them time to regroup and for the West to drop their guard, then they can go in again to annex all of Ukraine, which they feel they are entitled to. Much of the fear is unwarranted. If Russia resorts to tactical nukes they at best completely isolate themselves. On a larger scale it's suicide. There's no evidence that anyone there is suicidal. If you have anything on Putin's health besides rumor please post it. Much of it goes back many years.
[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/putin-health-rumors-cancer-parkinsons-disease-russia-ukraine-1704211[/URL]
P.S. As to Russia becoming more dangerous with a collapse of the government, that also doesn't make a lot of sense. At such a time they would likely be more concerned with domestic affairs, as they were after the fall of the USSR.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2702421]Being grounded and pounded in the East, as their wives are pounded elsewhere. EU crying for talks, as is that idiot Zelensky.
Von der Leyen saying to buy Russian oil to stop Russia selling it elsewhere. Now you know why you cannot be taken seriously.
Greece made a big mistake helping the USA steal that tanker of oil. 25% of tankers off the Iranian coast, that can easily be made an Iranian lake, fly the Greek flag.
Go back to your hamburgers and school shootings.[/QUOTE]Did you also predict a French victory at Agincourt? Or a victory for Rommel at El Alamein? If you're looking for an idiot, try looking in the mirror, because only an idiot looks at a ripple and thinks he can predict the tide.
The supposedly formidable Russian army was forced into a humiliating retreat from Kyiv, which even retired Russian officers (see previously posted letter) acknowledge. They control much less territory than at the beginning of the invasion and are now desperately trying to control Severodonetsk for purely domestic political reasons. Putin needs something, anything, that he can frame as a "victory," so he's directed his army to focus on Luhansk Oblast. The problem is that political pressures are pushing that army to attack without proper preparation or support, and they're losing men and equipment every step (forward AND backward) of the way. You can read an independent assessment here:
[URL]https://www.understandingwar.org/[/URL]
As anyone who isn't a prisoner of their own opinion-bubble can see, the actual state of the war is a grinding give and take. And one piece of information that's being reported today is that a Ukrainian counter-offensive in the Kherson area is underway. So, even if one side is able to take a bit of ground today, that's no guarantee they can hold it tomorrow.
How things will turn out on the battlefield is still an open question, and anyone with a shred of intellectual integrity will admit that there are a vast number of variables, known and unknown, in play. But, as you've consistently demonstrated in this forum, you wouldn't recognize integrity, of any kind, if it walked up and (just like your fave Medellin trannies) bit you in the ass.
P.S. Thanks for mentioning Iran! It seems they recently had some problems at one of their "secret" drone bases, and reportedly it was an attack that was launched from within Iran itself. Isn't it interesting that they apparently lack control over their own territory? Maybe they can ask Greece for some help with that.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700326]Quite a thought-provoking map, eh?[/QUOTE]No, it is mental masturbation.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2700326]But only delusional fools think they can predict the future. I'm satisfied with accurately observing present realities and proposing reasonable extrapolations from that body of evidence.
And there is no reality-based scenario or extrapolation in which Russia wins. Meanwhile, Ukraine is being continually replenished and refreshed by the US, NATO, and a coalition of freedom-loving nations.[/QUOTE]And if the Russians nuke the bridges, airports, and roads, how are all those munitions going to get into Ukraine? And do freedom loving nations seize assets based on nationality with no due process? Maybe we should round up all Russian-Americans and put them in concentration camps like we did with the Japanese in the 40's. Was that freedom loving?
And I do not get the whole concept of victory. The "experts" said the Russian army was going to take all over all of Europe and only the Polish army stood in the way. Then Ukraine was going to win. Now a week later Russia is going to win. What does winning even mean? Did we "win" in Afghanistan or Iraq?
We have this shooter in Buffalo who killed people that were his enemy based on race, and you expect the mentally ill to understand that killing based on race is bad but killing on nationality is good? I think that is confusing to sane people. The whole concept that killing can equal victory makes little sense to me.
There is a better way. To stay in power, dictators need money and if you look at the country with the worst civil rights in the world, only North Korea is one that is not a big time player with oil and natural gas. The war on terror was not won with bullets but by new oil drilling techniques, and that is how the war on dictators could be won as well.
Instead of the disgusting drilling for shale oil and gas, the Europeans went to solar and wind while bragging about climate change and then snuck in oil and gas from Russia. How did that work out? The only nation doing shale drilling in Europe with any scale is Poland.
Trump told the Europeans it was stupid for America to pay to defend Europe while Europe was buying oil and natural gas from Russia. That money to buy gas and oil was used to Russian munitions.
I do not get why we are spending $40 billon on arms for Ukraine versus LNG terminals in Europe and providing loans so Europe can develop their own shale resources. Why spend to destroy versus build? If Russia goes into a NATO nation, they are going to be nuked. Period. Why do we need to buy more bombs when we can blow up the world 20 X over?
I will not even be partisan here. Look at this chart. [URL]https://www.eia.gov/dnav/ng/hist/e_ertrr0_xr0_nus_cm.htm[/URL].
Now look at January 2012 during Obama's rule. There were 2,003 rigs going. Despite oil being higher now and nat gas being way higher, there are only 727 going. I do not care about Ukraine. With that rig count, "victory" against Russia and Putin is a pipe dream.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2702140] Ukrainian Army getting pounded, Israel upset
But, for anyone interested in the topic of Arab vs Persian animosity .[/QUOTE]You know nothing about it. Go beat up an old lady by the Damascus Gate. It is where your strength lies, there and killing Melkite journalists.
Here is Wikipedia on Iranian ethnicities [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicities_in_Iran[/URL].
Allegiances of Turkmen vary from place to place. Big component of your ISIS buddies.
I wonder how your mercenaries are getting on in East Ukraine. Coming up against a real army. I've just been reading US and German ones took a pounding. Let's hope others did too. Off you go now and beat up an old lady and rob her house.
P.S.: I skim your BS as you have nothing to say. Ditto your MB / Saudi links. Off you go now and beat up an old lady and rob her house.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2701988]Joe is at it again, LOL.
PRES. BIDEN.
A SECOND -- DID ANYBODY THINK ON OUR CALL FOR SANCTIONS AGAINST RUSSIA, IN ADDITION TO NATO? TO Australia? Japan. NORTH Korea, WHICH STAND UP AND SUPPORT THOSE SANCTIONS. THE WORLD IS MOVING SO RAPIDLY. I NEED NOT TELL YOU AVIATORS, WITHIN THE NEXT DECADE, YOU WILL BE ABLE TO CIRCUMVENT;.
[URL]https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5016937/user-clip-biden-mistakenly-north-korea-stood-putin[/URL]
[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10862129/amp/Biden-raises-eyebrows-saying-North-Korea-stood-against-Russia.html[/URL][/QUOTE]Looks like he said North Korea when he meant to say South Korea. Big deal, is hardly worth the cap key. Many of Trump's gaffes and word salads are legendary, such as "oranges of the investigation" Ha Ha. But even that isn't worth the cap key or steering us off topic in a Kyiv discussion, even though Biden had enough going on between his ears to mop the floor with Trump in two debates.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPsNgmXR7M[/URL]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2702539]You know nothing about it. Go beat up an old lady by the Damascus Gate. It is where your strength lies, there and killing Melkite journalists.
Here is Wikipedia on Iranian ethnicities [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnicities_in_Iran[/URL].
Allegiances of Turkmen vary from place to place. Big component of your ISIS buddies.
I wonder how your mercenaries are getting on in East Ukraine. Coming up against a real army. I've just been reading US and German ones took a pounding. Let's hope others did too. Off you go now and beat up an old lady and rob her house.
P.S.: I skim your BS as you have nothing to say. Ditto your MB / Saudi links. Off you go now and beat up an old lady and rob her house.[/QUOTE]Maybe Wikipedia can help you improve your repertoire of insults? Because they are lame beyond belief.
Here's a short lesson: In order for an insult to truly hit a nerve, it needs to have some basis in fact, even if only a little. For example, if you happened to be skinny as a rail, then it would be stupid to try to use something like "fat pig" as an insult. It simply lacks any believability which robs it of any efficacy as an insult. But using something like meth-addled anorexic could work, because those would have a connection to the reality of your appearance.
Obviously, on an anonymous fuckboard there's no way to ascertain physical attributes. But there certainly is ample opportunity to examine ideas, or lack thereof, how people express themselves, and to what degree logic and intelligence is reflected in their posts.
And that's why your attempt to insult by calling me racist falls completely flat. Because it's not connected to any reality, except as a figment of your warped imagination. And, if no one except you believes it, then it's as meaningless as if you declared that it's nighttime when everyone else can clearly see the sun shining.
OTOH, if I call you a brainless bile-duct whose only access to information comes (pun intended) when you suck Dickipedia, then that's an insult with some sticking power because it accurately reflects a number of the traits you've demonstrated.
See how that works? Any questions?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2701798]But for those, no matter how well-intentioned, who mistakenly project their own framework of rationality and diplomacy on the Kremlin, this letter (and similar disclosures) should begin the process of opening eyes and hammering home the truth that [b]nothing less than a comprehensive Russian defeat will suffice.[/b][/QUOTE]Let's hope so, but I think MLRS (if and when they finally arrive) might help bring it home much faster.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2702072]A complete collapse of the Russian government could be a lot more volatile and dangerous than some Russian tanks. I believe that's what Kissinger fears. The optimal result is a subtle transition of power to less militaristic leadership. Yes, I know. That's optimistic.[/QUOTE]Well, it's the 21st century and it ain't kind to empires. Even the second half of the 20th century wasn't kind to empires, and France and the UK can attest to that. The Russian empire is going to disintegrate just like many before it, and I believe it'll be better for everyone, this way, including the Russians.
The dissolution of the USSR was definitely a positive thing for Russia, Europe and the world. Not it's time to finish the job.
As to a "subtle transition of power", yes, it would be nice, but Russia has never been known for 'subtleties', LOL.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2702515]No, it is mental masturbation.
1. And if the Russians nuke the bridges, airports, and roads, how are all those munitions going to get into Ukraine?
2. Maybe we should round up all Russian-Americans and put them in concentration camps like we did with the Japanese in the 40's. Was that freedom loving?[/QUOTE]Now, [B]these[/B] are mental masturbations.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2702515]No, it is mental masturbation.
And if the Russians nuke the bridges, airports, and roads, how are all those munitions going to get into Ukraine? And do freedom loving nations seize assets based on nationality with no due process? Maybe we should round up all Russian-Americans and put them in concentration camps like we did with the Japanese in the 40's. Was that freedom loving?
And I do not get the whole concept of victory. The "experts" said the Russian army was going to take all over all of Europe and only the Polish army stood in the way. Then Ukraine was going to win. Now a week later Russia is going to win. What does winning even mean? Did we "win" in Afghanistan or Iraq?
We have this shooter in Buffalo who killed people that were his enemy based on race, and you expect the mentally ill to understand that killing based on race is bad but killing on nationality is good? I think that is confusing to sane people. The whole concept that killing can equal victory makes little sense to me..[/QUOTE]First of all, the map I posted that purports to be from Chinese media was intended as a dig at Pedro M, and anyone who thinks China gives a shit about Russia. It's purely reflective of someone's idea of what a disintegrated Russia might look like, and I took it as a tongue-in-cheek exercise, nothing more.
Second, you seem to take issue with my statement that:
"But only delusional fools think they can predict the future. I'm satisfied with accurately observing present realities and proposing reasonable extrapolations from that body of evidence.
And there is no reality-based scenario or extrapolation in which Russia wins. Meanwhile, Ukraine is being continually replenished and refreshed by the US, NATO, and a coalition of freedom-loving nations".
With which part do you have a problem? With my refusal to engage in predicting the future (and my criticism of those who do so engage)?
Or is it my statement that there is no reality-based scenario in which Russia wins?
Please specify, as I'm happy to defend both of those positions.
As for my statement about Ukraine being replenished, that's simply an observation of the current state of affairs. Could that change? Absolutely! Although I personally haven't seen any observers worried that Putin would use nukes specifically to stop replenishment. Most analyses I've read tend to think he'd only resort to nukes if he perceived an existential threat to Russia which, if Ukraine is only using weapons on its own territory, would seem to not cross those red lines.
But that's getting into the prediction business, isn't it? And that's where I've resisted going and criticized others for doing so. Putin has nukes, that's clearly true. And what's also true is that he can conjure up whatever excuse he wants, whenever he wants, to justify their use. Ukraine, and others, are betting that he's not a madman and they're refusing to allow him to use nuclear blackmail to get what he wants.
Is that the right course of action? Only time will tell. And that touches on your question about what constitutes a win. I would submit that only Russia and Ukraine can answer that. And also that any peace agreement can only happen when their two views get close enough to be within negotiating distance, which is nowhere close to happening.
As far as my statement that Russia has no winnable scenario, that's predicated on their false belief that Ukrainians would welcome them as liberators. With that notion debunked, what's left? Russia leaving Ukraine = defeat. Russia continuing to occupy all or part of Ukraine = continued sanctions + pariah status + impaired future prospects + similar items = more defeat. In other words, they're screwed whether they stay or go. That's not a prediction so much as it's an observation of how various end-game scenarios are likely to play out. If you see another possibility, by all means please share.
As for your comments about the Buffalo shooter and shale oil and Trump, it's my sense that you're venting more than making a specific, coherent argument.
Do you have a solution or prescription that you can articulate? Venting is understandable, as there are so many frustrating elements in the current situation, but what exactly do you think Russia and Ukraine should do?
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2702485]P.S. As to Russia becoming more dangerous with a collapse of the government, that also doesn't make a lot of sense. At such a time they would likely be more concerned with domestic affairs, as they were after the fall of the USSR.[/QUOTE]That's the thing about uncertainty. It's uncertain.
When I wrote "a complete collapse of the Russian government." I was not thinking in terms of the Gorbachev to Yeltsin hand-off with Russia orderly breaking into more homogenous countries. I was thinking of a violent struggle for the leadership of a weakened, unstable nuclear state. I'm not really thinking the conventional Russian military is a threat to the West.
Since I don't have a crystal ball, I considered the possibility of a "subtle transition of power to less militaristic leadership."
Nothing personal, but can you really say with certainty you know how things would go down if the Russian government completely collapses? We don't even have the foggiest idea who might emerge as the leader. What if it's a crazy, Russian nationalist from the military no less?
As Xpartan brought up, the fall of empires have been a good think for humanity but they have also led to instability and violence in the transitory period. So be prepared for the worst.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2702624]First of all, the map I posted that purports to be from Chinese media was intended as a dig at Pedro M, and anyone who thinks China gives a shit about Russia. It's purely reflective of someone's idea of what a disintegrated Russia might look like, and I took it as a tongue-in-cheek exercise, nothing more.
Second, you seem to take issue with my statement that:
"But only delusional fools think they can predict the future. I'm satisfied with accurately observing present realities and proposing reasonable extrapolations from that body of evidence.
And there is no reality-based scenario or extrapolation in which Russia wins. Meanwhile, Ukraine is being continually replenished and refreshed by the US, NATO, and a coalition of freedom-loving nations".
With which part do you have a problem? With my refusal to engage in predicting the future (and my criticism of those who do so engage)?
Or is it my statement that there is no reality-based scenario in which Russia wins?
Please specify, as I'm happy to defend both of those positions.[/QUOTE]Well, first, there is the contradiction. No one knows what is going to happen but there is no way Russia "wins". IMO even if Putin negotiates peace, he is going to declare victory.
As for a reality based scenario, Russia has nukes. Ukraine does not so unless Ukraine has nukes, they are outgunned. The question then is not if Russia can win but how badly it wants to.
As of now, this appears to be more of a land grab / theft versus Ukraine being a true threat to Russia. If Ukraine victory is not defined as retaking their homeland but attacking Russia with a goal of regime change, I think the use of nukes goes from unlikely to possible / probable.
What bugs me is the illogical Democratic view. On one hand, they look at Putin as a crazed mad man who is worse than Hitler and has to be removed from power. OTOH, they think he is rational enough to not use nukes. Worse yet is one hysterical warmonger's case where there is the belief that a nuclear war is winnable:[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-us-show-it-can-win-a-nuclear-war-russia-putin-ukraine-nato-sarmat-missile-testing-warning-11651067733[/URL].
Despite all the tough talk, if Russia uses nukes, there likely will be condemnation from the world community, but I doubt any other nation would respond in kind.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2702624]And that touches on your question about what constitutes a win. I would submit that only Russia and Ukraine can answer that. And also that any peace agreement can only happen when their two views get close enough to be within negotiating distance, which is nowhere close to happening.[/QUOTE]I do not agree. Russia can declare victory with its land expansion. Ukraine can declare victory with saying it protected its homeland from a country with a superior military. The problem is the USA and Biden who let slip that Putin cannot stay in power. Look at the rabid Dems who post here. Is this really a war between Ukraine and Russia or a proxy war between the USA and Russia? The Dems have been fucking around with Russia and Ukraine since 2014. Victory for the Dems is not that the death and destruction stop in Ukraine. No, it is bragging they got Putin out of power so they have something to run on in the midterm elections.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2702624]As for your comments about the Buffalo shooter and shale oil and Trump, it's my sense that you're venting more than making a specific, coherent argument.
Do you have a solution or prescription that you can articulate? Venting is understandable, as there are so many frustrating elements in the current situation, but what exactly do you think Russia and Ukraine should do?[/QUOTE]Before you get to the solution, what exactly is the problem? Russia is going to take over Europe? That is a fear not a problem. How the fuck does Russia do that when both the USA and Europe have nukes?
IMO the problem is that the Dems still feel that Trump won in 2016 because of Putin, and the Dems want payback and the glory of taking him out. And the Dems think what is good for them is good for America. What does Putin being in power mean to the average American's life? Very little. And if he is taken out, what guarantee is there that Putin's replacement will be less evil? None.
The notion of sticking it to the Russians and killing their soldiers may sound satisfying, but you cannot tell me that glorifying killing has nothing to do with school shootings, so that makes me feel less secure. And giving javelin and stinger missiles to Ukraine, a notoriously corrupt country, without proper accountability hardly makes me feel secure either. Stinger missiles cannot just take out airplanes but skyscrapers, and it is just takes one to get into the wrong hands.
The notion that Putin is a threat to Democracy and Russiagate was not is insulting. I do not think this is a war between Russia and Ukraine but between Putin and the Democrats. If the Democrats want to convince me and other Republicans Putin is truly evil and they are not crying wolf, they have to admit that Russiagate was a fraud and agree to investigate and prosecute those responsible. Until then, I think a lot of Republicans will have a hard time believing Putin being a threat is real; it is just the Dems being hysterical again and trying to justify Russiagate.
Assuming they can make that case, what can the USA do to limit Putin's power? You are not going to beat a nuclear power in a war. That is just stupid. The cold war was won economically, and the thing that would limit Putin's power the most is cheap oil and natural gas. The Democrats have to make a choice once again: which is a bigger threat to the USA, Dems? Putin or climate change? You do not get it both ways. Instead of arming Ukraine, to me, investment in oil and gas makes far more sense.
If you are going to use the military or give a nation arms, there has to be a mission and a achievable one at that. So what is the goal with arming Ukraine? Limiting Russia's land grab? So what? We have a repeat of the moronic domino theory that if Russia takes parts of Ukraine, the rest of Europe is next? Please.
I am not in favor of a military solution, but when has the USA military really been successful? The only war I would say the USA was in that was an unqualified success since WW2 was Grenada. It was easily winnable, and the mission was clear.
If you want to use military might and hurt Putin in the name of Democracy, and I am not in favor of this, an invasion of Venezuela makes the most sense. That nation has been hampered by a corrupt dictator and the people have suffered because of it, and it sits on the largest oil reserves in the world. You can use drug trafficking or the Russian presence there as an excuse for an invasion. Developing those reserves would lower the price of crude and hurt Putin, help the Venezuelan people in having a higher standard of living, and help much of the world with cheaper energy prices. Unlike in Ukraine, military action there has an achievable goal with a high likelihood of success but again, I am not favor of this.
It is just that I can see the upside for the USA and the world invading Venezuela. What is the goal of that $40 billion spent in Ukraine? Perpetual war? The Dems say they are spending that money to ensure victory. How the fuck is Ukraine going to beat a nuclear power without nukes?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2702611]Maybe Wikipedia can help you improve your repertoire of insults? Because they are lame beyond belief.
See how that works? Any questions?[/QUOTE]I am only looking in here to laugh at you. Now that the rest of the Stupid Shit in Medellin is here, I will look in less.
Wikipedia is a quick fire reference, used by me to show you know nothing about Iran.
Looking at your Medellin buddies thinking Russia is imploding, LOL.
Zelensky has lost the war but won the billions. Fancy going to Cannes and seeing that creep on the screen. Stanford Uni. Zelensky, what a shit show.
Did you enjoy beating up those old ladies by the Damascus Gate?
Hopefully, there will be an all round day of reckoning.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2702937]I am only looking in here to laugh at you. Now that the rest of the Stupid Shit in Medellin is here, I will look in less.
Wikipedia is a quick fire reference, used by me to show you know nothing about Iran.
Looking at your Medellin buddies thinking Russia is imploding, LOL.
Zelensky has lost the war but won the billions. Fancy going to Cannes and seeing that creep on the screen. Stanford Uni. Zelensky, what a shit show.
Did you enjoy beating up those old ladies by the Damascus Gate?
Hopefully, there will be an all round day of reckoning.[/QUOTE]If Russia has won, why are they still fighting?
Once again, declaring that it's nighttime, when everyone else can clearly see that the sun is shining, just reveals to everyone what a delusional nutjob you are.
Delusion #2 is your obsession with the Medellin threads, and somehow believing that I frequent that forum. Never have, and never will. But that's ok, it's understandable if you can't think straight while engaged in a Dickipedia suck-session.
BTW, please keep us posted if there's anything of interest in the Medellin forums. From everything I can tell, you're the only one, in this forum, who spends time in that one. I guess that must be because of your obsession with transsexuals. Whatever floats your boat. Unless, of course, your boat is the Moskva!
Oh, wait. The Moskva didn't sink, because Russia is winning, right? It must have done a super-secret transformation into a submarine.
P.S. Please message the Kremlin ASAP and let them know they're misspelling the name of their own country. When writing in English, they've been mistakenly using the spelling "Russia" and that's clearly wrong! And we know this because the self-appointed "expert" called Pedro Morales has demonstrated that "Rusisa" is the TRUE spelling. Thanks so much for clearing that up! Oh, and while you're at it, make sure you also tell Dickipedia when you visit them tonight.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2702899]Well, first, there is the contradiction. No one knows what is going to happen but there is no way Russia "wins". IMO even if Putin negotiates peace, he is going to declare victory.[/QUOTE]It's possible to look at a chessboard and, from the positions of the pieces and how much material each side has lost, extrapolate various endgame scenarios. Making an observation that most, or even all, of those scenarios aren't favorable to one side is not the same as making a prediction.
Let me again state my position, as clearly as I can:
Scenario 1:
If Russia leaves Ukraine, either to the Feb 24th boundaries or further, that will be seen as a clear defeat by just about everyone, whether inside Russia or not.
Scenario 2:
If Russia conquers all, or part of Ukraine, then they'll need to occupy it. However, post-2022 occupation is likely to be different, and much more difficult, than it was in 2014. The regions that Putin believed were pro-Russian have resisted strongly and it's highly likely that an occupational force would need to deal with insurgencies and local hostility. Ukraine would continue to be viewed as a victim by many and sanctions would continue to be imposed by many. Compared to pre-invasion Russia, the post-invasion situation would be more isolated and with numerous countries minimizing or eliminating the ties and relationships they once had.
I have no doubt that Putin would call #2 a victory, and might even be able to sell that to the Russian people. But calling it a "win" doesn't make it so, and an objective definition of victory generally means that you've gained more than you've lost. Putin's scorched-earth tactics have essentially leveled entire cities, like Mariupol. If he ends up holding territory that he's ruined, populated by people who will have a blood-feud mentality for generations, and has simultaneously turned most of the world against him, it's hard to see how that can objectively be characterized as a win. But I'm not disputing the fact that Putin will declare victory, no matter what.
What real victory would have looked like can be discerned from what we've learned about the Russian mindset, and objectives, at the beginning of the war. From everything I've seen and read, Russia believed there was a significant proportion of the Ukrainian people who would welcome them as liberators and would have no problem if a pro-Russia government was installed. Had Putin's army marched into Kyiv, removed Zelensky, installed new leadership, controlled the media, and had that new reality been readily accepted by significant numbers of Ukrainians, that would absolutely have been worthy of being declared a true win. But that didn't happen.
To sum up, since the true and unequivocal victory didn't happen, every remaining scenario is some version of failure. And success vs failure can be judged by objective measures, irrespective of what one side or the other says. Monty Python's Black Knight can claim that he's only suffered a scratch, but the reality is evident.
Again, if you see any realistic endgame scenario which lends itself to being objectively classified as a true Russian win, I'm all ears.
This first piece is a detailed look at Russia's military performance:
[URL]https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00396338.2022.2078044[/URL]
One good feature of this analysis is that it discusses the implications of the current conflict for the future military balance of power in Europe. And it also raises the question of whether Western analysts, having overestimated Russia's capabilities, might be making similar errors with respect to their assessment of NATO and other Western forces.
And this one examines a weapons system that Ukraine may get in the near future, and why it may be a game-changer:
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531067601006301184.html[/URL]
Whether or not Ukraine will receive the weapons systems described is yet to be seen. But the author argues that at least one of the MLRS systems will be delivered. There's also a companion piece with a lot of background technical info about various MLRS systems. It's best suited for military geeks but, if you want to take a look, here's the link:
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531012132975910912.html[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2703003]It's possible to look at a chessboard and, from the positions of the pieces and how much material each side has lost, extrapolate various endgame scenarios. Making an observation that most, or even all, of those scenarios aren't favorable to one side is not the same as making a prediction.
Let me again state my position, as clearly as I can:
Scenario 1:
If Russia leaves Ukraine, either to the Feb 24th boundaries or further, that will be seen as a clear defeat by just about everyone, whether inside Russia or not.
Scenario 2:.[/QUOTE]Nobody is winning, this is total mess. The longer this craziness continues, the world economy will tank, this is almost worst scenario, minus a Nuclear War.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2703211]Nobody is winning, this is total mess. The longer this craziness continues, the world economy will tank, this is almost worst scenario, minus a Nuclear War.[/QUOTE]If your neighbor, with whom you've had strained relations for years, breaks down your fence, comes into your house, and starts shooting, who bears primary responsibility for that situation?
If, in response to being attacked, you barricade yourself in a room, get your own gun, and return fire to defend yourself, is that somehow blameworthy? Also, in the event people are killed in the cross-fire, is there any sense in pointing the finger at both, or should it be pointed squarely in the face of the instigator?
I've never been one to defend Ukraine against allegations that they've stirred up shit against Russia in past years. And, considering the fact that they've been fighting each other (directly and via proxies) since 2014, it doesn't surprise me that there's bad blood and lots of antagonism.
But Russia is the bigger and stronger country, and they made a conscious decision to invade, thinking they could swallow Ukraine and bully the West into inaction by virtue of nuclear threats. They were wrong.
Now the bully's nose has been bloodied. They can turn around and go home or double-down on their aggression. It's entirely up to Russia, no one else.
If Russia stops fighting there will be no war, if Ukraine stops fighting there will be no Ukraine.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2703211]Nobody is winning, this is total mess. The longer this craziness continues, the world economy will tank, this is almost worst scenario, minus a Nuclear War.[/QUOTE]You've been singing this same simplistic song over and over since the war begin but it's likely to last another year or longer. Russia is too invested to back down. Ukraine wants them off their land and are willing to fight. The West will continue to arm them. There's wide bi-partisan support for the same in Congress, with only 11 Republican senators voting against the latest aid package. So keep whining but it's not going to change anything.
The first thing we need at when a war happens is who is benefitting! And did anyone do anything to stop it?
The US is not doing anything to stop the war for sure, who's industry is booming with this war!! Or special operation!!
What did we see??
Europe was not investing in military or weapons!!
Now, US has got multimillions $$ contacts for military equipment's from European countries.
Gas contacts for US companies, to mention few!
Who has lost?? The people of Ukraine.
Even the US knew there is a war coming, they asked their citizens to leave Ukraine, but didn't do anything to stop it!
Even now, US is not talking about negotiations to end the war, instead of how to prolong the war!!
Lefts fight till the end of who??
Why will they stop a war, as they know the business opportunity is their hands!!
There is no good in the world anymore, we can only choose the better evil!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2703313]If your neighbor, with whom you've had strained relations for years, breaks down your fence, comes into your house, and starts shooting, who bears primary responsibility for that situation?
If, in response to being attacked, you barricade yourself in a room, get your own gun, and return fire to defend yourself, is that somehow blameworthy? Also, in the event people are killed in the cross-fire, is there any sense in pointing the finger at both, or should it be pointed squarely in the face of the instigator?
I've never been one to defend Ukraine against allegations that they've stirred up shit against Russia in past years. And, considering the fact that they've been fighting each other (directly and via proxies) since 2014, it doesn't surprise me that there's bad blood and lots of antagonism..[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mike963;2703588]The first thing we need at when a war happens is who is benefitting! And did anyone do anything to stop it?
The US is not doing anything to stop the war for sure, who's industry is booming with this war!! Or special operation!!
What did we see??
Europe was not investing in military or weapons!!
Now, US has got multimillions $$ contacts for military equipment's from European countries.
Gas contacts for US companies, to mention few!
Who has lost?? The people of Ukraine.
Even the US knew there is a war coming, they asked their citizens to leave Ukraine, but didn't do anything to stop it!
Even now, US is not talking about negotiations to end the war, instead of how to prolong the war!!
Lefts fight till the end of who?[/QUOTE]So true, they should be forced to negotiate and compromise. Instead of sending weapons, we should say enough is enough. Find a solution and end this crazy war.
[QUOTE=Mike963;2703588]Even now, US is not talking about negotiations to end the war, instead of how to prolong the war!!
Lefts fight till the end of who??
Why will they stop a war, as they know the business opportunity is their hands!!
There is no good in the world anymore, we can only choose the better evil![/QUOTE]I understand your points. I generally agree with the recent posts that you don't want to prolong this war unnecessarily. There's a tendency for us armchair generals to look at a conventional war and think we can master a victory. Beyond the carnage and destruction, it ignores all the political chaos that ensues.
It's a bit audacious to presume the Ukraine itself will emerge a healthy, functioning democracy. I'm still not sure what would happen if Putin was deposed. There are no guarantees in what follows.
However, I do not agree the United States' role is that of peace negotiator. That is probably best left to Turkey or some other nation that doesn't represent a threat to either side. Perhaps China or even India has missed their opportunity to gain respect on the world stage.
[QUOTE=Mike963;2703588]The first thing we need at when a war happens is who is benefitting! And did anyone do anything to stop it?
The US is not doing anything to stop the war for sure, who's industry is booming with this war!! Or special operation!!
What did we see?
Europe was not investing in military or weapons!!
Now, US has got multimillions $$ contacts for military equipment's from European countries.
Gas contacts for US companies, to mention few!.[/QUOTE]I'm sure there are plenty of ways to look at the situation, including views from 10,000 feet that focus on which players (countries and companies) might benefit from, or be taking advantage of, the conflict.
But it's hard for me to concern myself with such issues while Ukrainians are being killed, captured, tortured, and their cities reduced to uninhabitable rubble.
When confronted with that in-your-face reality, there are only a very few questions at the top level of priority:
Q: Who bears primary responsibility for the conflict?
A: Russia.
Q: Who is the only party with the ability to unilaterally bring an end to the conflict?
A: Russia.
Q: How can the conflict be stopped?
A: By Russia deciding to stop, either by their own independent decision, or as a response to external and (or) internal pressures.
While other questions and issues may be valid and worth exploring, they must necessarily take a back seat to the primary issues listed above. I'm certainly open to debating which countries might secretly, or not so secretly, be hoping for Ukraine to fail (Serbia, Hungary, Germany, etc.), or which countries are giving Ukraine their full support (Poland, Baltics, etc.), or which countries (USA, France, Italy, etc.) might be slow-walking assistance because they see upsides to a protracted conflict.
I have no illusions about the fact that there are plenty of bad actors who could, and should, be named and shamed. But Job #1 is ending the war, full stop. And that will only happen if Russia has a change of mind (unlikely), or if a combination of battlefield defeats, attrition, and pressures from within and without, cause them to have that change of mind.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2703621]So true, they should be forced to negotiate and compromise. Instead of sending weapons, we should say enough is enough. Find a solution and end this crazy war.[/QUOTE]Russia is the aggressor and, in case you haven't noticed, there's no country that's currently able to force Russia to do anything. And any attempt at the direct application of force runs the risk of provoking the use of nukes.
So what does that leave as a realistic option? Going through the United Nations is worthless, as Russia (aided by China) is able to veto any attempt to problem solve by that toothless organization.
What else? Well, maybe the application of sanctions and other pressures by Europe, the US, and other nations. That's not force, per se, but rather an attempt to convince Russia that the present and future costs they'll incur will outweigh any benefits.
That's the only realistic path I can see, and that's what's currently being tried (as Ukraine defends itself in a struggle for survival). If you have a better solution, with a realistic chance of making a difference, please feel free to share.
BTW, if anyone thinks that peace is to be gained by forcing Ukraine only, while letting Russia do whatever it wants, I would refer them to VinDici's earlier post. Asking Ukraine to commit national suicide is a non-starter.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2703628]I understand your points. I generally agree with the recent posts that you don't want to prolong this war unnecessarily. There's a tendency for us armchair generals to look at a conventional war and think we can master a victory. Beyond the carnage and destruction, it ignores all the political chaos that ensues.
It's a bit audacious to presume the Ukraine itself will emerge a healthy, functioning democracy. I'm still not sure what would happen if Putin was deposed. There are no guarantees in what follows.
However, I do not agree the United States' role is that of peace negotiator. That is probably best left to Turkey or some other nation that doesn't represent a threat to either side. Perhaps China or even India has missed their opportunity to gain respect on the world stage.[/QUOTE]Every nation other than Russia and Ukraine is at best tangential, and at worst irrelevant.
As I see it, Ukraine's requirements for any kind of cease-fire (or more) would be, at a minimum, Russia's withdrawal to pre-invasion boundaries. I see no indication that's even close to being acceptable to Russia.
Russia apparently believes it can hold out against sanctions and attrition of military resources long enough to seize all of Luhansk, Donetsk, and a land corridor to Crimea. And, from other sources I've recently read, some in Russia believe they can reconstitute their forces enough to make another push at Kyiv.
While Ukraine's thinking, as I understand it, is that they can bend without breaking and, with Western support, continue to grind down Russia's ability to effectively wage war. And, on that front, there are things happening to encourage Ukraine. Putin has failed to call for national mobilization, perhaps fearing backlash or widespread disobedience or avoidance, and Russia has eliminated the upper age limit for military service. Those, and similar developments, indicate that Putin is having a hard time finding soldiers. And any who are recruited today will need to be trained for at least several months before achieving even minimal fighting proficiency.
So, that's a longish way of saying that neither side is anywhere close to believing they need to negotiate. When one side, or both, is sufficiently beaten up, then who the negotiator is, while important, won't be the primary issue.
Also, if I'm Ukrainian and someone tries to raise the issue of whether my country will be a healthy democracy after the war, I think I'd punch them in the mouth. That's because, in Maslow hierarchy-speak, I'm at the bottom of the pyramid, just trying to survive. Self-actualization as a democracy is a great goal, but that's a topic for another day.
I agree that there are a lot of geopolitical chips up in the air, and who knows where they'll fall. But, first things first, please help me and my family keep from being killed.
P.S. It's also important to factor in that the landscape with respect to sanctions and the battlefield is constantly changing. See my recent post about Ukraine acquiring MLRS systems from the US, and why that may have a significant impact. And the latest round of sanctions now includes Sberbank, which is the heavyweight of Russian banks. So, in boxing terms, past banking sanctions were like stiff jabs (painful but moderate damage), while this one is like a heavy body-blow with the potential for major damage.
[URL]https://www.19fortyfive.com/2022/05/putins-nightmare-a-ukrainian-guerrilla-movement-has-emerged/[/URL]
Attacks of a guerrilla or resistance nature will make any occupation a dicey and dangerous affair. And, to the extent that military resources important to Russia are destroyed (ammo, fuel, railroads, etc.), that will have a direct effect on the battlefield. And even just keeping extra Russian troops tied to garrison duty is a positive for Ukraine.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2702552]Looks like he said North Korea when he meant to say South Korea. Big deal, is hardly worth the cap key. Many of Trump's gaffes and word salads are legendary, such as "oranges of the investigation" Ha Ha. But even that isn't worth the cap key or steering us off topic in a Kyiv discussion, even though Biden had enough going on between his ears to mop the floor with Trump in two debates.
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUPsNgmXR7M[/URL][/QUOTE]At it back in 2020. No wonder he Won [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8a2g6tTp0[/URL].
LOL, 2000 Mules.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2703933]At it back in 2020. No wonder he Won [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8a2g6tTp0[/URL].
LOL, 2000 Mules.[/QUOTE]Too bad 60+ frivolous lawsuits were laughed out the door. LOL Better luck in 2024.
P.S. Best wishes on your English language studies.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2703933]2000 Mules.[/QUOTE]2000 mules debunked.
[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/04/faulty-premise-2000-mules-trailer-about-voting-mai/[/URL]
Just another far right yawn, filed away with Hillary's emails, lock her up, Hunter's lap top, Bill Clinton's BJ, and Obama's birth certificate. But D'Souza, a convicted felon pardoned by Trump wanted some money from stupid people also. Why should Trump get it all?
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2703933] No wonder he Won [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8a2g6tTp0[/URL].[/QUOTE]Viral fake news, taken out of context and easily debunked.
[URL]https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jan/12/greg-kelly/newsmax-host-recycles-out-context-clip-call-joe-bi/[/URL]
The only country in the world who has fought wars since WWII is US. I don't have to mention where all they have waged war in the world, in the name of democracy, and how those countries are now.
If we see the histroy after WWII, we will know, there is always an understanding between these powers (US and Russia)! Even there are against each other. Irony!!
So in short, if US can start a war, they can stop a war too!!
Ukrainian president was supper confident of the support he is going to get from the west (especially US), check his speaches before the war.
Now he talks, west needs to do more! That is when we need to think! What went wrong!!
Remember, war brings money / economic growth!! In the expense of people of a country. In this case, its the Arms manufacture of US, with the money fo tax payers!!
When the congress passes a multibillion aid! For arm supply, its taxpayer money paid to the Arms manufacturs!
Check the share prices of US arms manufactures in last 3 months!!
Its important to stop the war, to save the people!! But who cares of the people!!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2703685]I'm sure there are plenty of ways to look at the situation, including views from 10,000 feet that focus on which players (countries and companies) might benefit from, or be taking advantage of, the conflict.
But it's hard for me to concern myself with such issues while Ukrainians are being killed, captured, tortured, and their cities reduced to uninhabitable rubble.
When confronted with that in-your-face reality, there are only a very few questions at the top level of priority:
Q: Who bears primary responsibility for the conflict?
A: Russia.
Q: Who is the only party with the ability to unilaterally bring an end to the conflict?
A: Russia.
Q: How can the conflict be stopped?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mike963;2704120]The only country in the world who has fought wars since WWII is US. I don't have to mention where all they have waged war in the world, in the name of democracy, and how those countries are now.
If we see the histroy after WWII, we will know, there is always an understanding between these powers (US and Russia)! Even there are against each other. Irony!!
So in short, if US can start a war, they can stop a war too!!
Ukrainian president was supper confident of the support he is going to get from the west (especially US), check his speaches before the war.
Now he talks, west needs to do more! That is when we need to think! What went wrong!!
Remember, war brings money / economic growth!! In the expense of people of a country. In this case, its the Arms manufacture of US, with the money fo tax payers!!
When the congress passes a multibillion aid! For arm supply, its taxpayer money paid to the Arms manufacturs!
Check the share prices of US arms manufactures in last 3 months!!.[/QUOTE]All you've done is ignore all of Jmsuttr's points and concerns while repeating the same assertions all over again, but this time tacking on double exclamation marks at the end of each sentence. And you earn a demerit by adding the ludicrous claim that the US has been the only country involved in war since WW II. We should expect better, even in a hooker forum. Why don't you go back and try again? Wink.
[QUOTE=Mike963;2704120]The only country in the world who has fought wars since WWII is US. I don't have to mention where all they have waged war in the world, in the name of democracy, and how those countries are now.
If we see the histroy after WWII, we will know, there is always an understanding between these powers (US and Russia)! Even there are against each other. Irony!!
So in short, if US can start a war, they can stop a war too!!
Ukrainian president was supper confident of the support he is going to get from the west (especially US), check his speaches before the war.[/QUOTE][URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2703784&viewfull=1#post2703784[/URL]
If Russia doesn't want to stop fighting the war, the only way the US could make them stop would require the use of force by the US military, or NATO, or both.
That would a) Play into Putin's hands by allowing him to frame the conflict as existential, with Russia's nationhood at stake, and; b) Exponentially raise the risk that nuclear weapons could be used.
Also, you're mistaken as to a fundamental fact. Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine, not the US and not American arms manufacturers. It was Putin, and he alone, who started the war. And, since he started it, the war will continue until Putin, or his successor, gives the order to stop.
Any questions?
[QUOTE=Mike963;2704120]The only country in the world who has fought wars since WWII is US.[/QUOTE]I wonder what can possibly possess a grown-up to say something so monumentally stupid.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2704072]2000 mules debunked.
[URL]https://www.politifact.com/article/2022/may/04/faulty-premise-2000-mules-trailer-about-voting-mai/[/URL]
Just another far right yawn, filed away with Hillary's emails, lock her up, Hunter's lap top, Bill Clinton's BJ, and Obama's birth certificate. But D'Souza, a convicted felon pardoned by Trump wanted some money from stupid people also. Why should Trump get it all?[/QUOTE]Yeah debunked with leftwing lies.
Same lies the pathetic democrats are trying to spin inflation is because of Putin.
Luckily hardly anyone believes this and the democrats are on their way out like a bunch of dogs.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2703933]At it back in 2020, No wonder he Won [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MA8a2g6tTp0[/URL].
LOL, 2000 Mules.[/QUOTE]Fine talk about reducing emissions, LOL "he is supposed to be committed to reducing emissions but when President Joe Biden produced a little natural gas of his own at the COP26 summit, it was audible enough to make the Duchess of Cornwall blush."
[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10172959/Camilla-stopped-talking-hearing-President-break-wind-chat-Cop26-summit.html[/URL]
The "Sleepy Joe" doze off [URL]https://news.sky.com/video/cop26-joe-biden-appears-to-fall-asleep-before-giving-a-speech-at-cop26-video-12457263[/URL].
Come 2024 he'll be Gone With The Wind.
From some news source: "Of course we want peace, but we also want our territories back," said Anna Ockmanko, 57, whose house in a small village outside of Kharkiv was destroyed when Russian forces invaded. "If not, then what are we suffering for?
Sad truth is that Ukrainians are suffering as punishment for their stupidity. Stupidity is not always punished in this world, but it usually is, and the punishment is typically severe, because that's the only way to get stupid people to learn. Same as teaching a stupid animal: since stupid animals can't / won't learn by logical reasoning, they have to be beaten silly with a stick until pain finally sinks in and forces them to learn.
Not the first to use following metaphor, but worth repeating over and over. If a robber points a gun at your stomach and says "give me all the money in your wallet", then you are very stupid not to comply, because certainly your life is with more than any amount of money. Yes, complying is cowardly surrender. And? Go back and read this metaphor over and over until you understand, because the alternative is what happens in the preceding paragraph: if you can't learn by reason, including via metaphors, then you will be probably be beaten silly with a stick, so to speak, to force you to learn.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2704342]From some news source: "Of course we want peace, but we also want our territories back," said Anna Ockmanko, 57, whose house in a small village outside of Kharkiv was destroyed when Russian forces invaded. "If not, then what are we suffering for?
Sad truth is that Ukrainians are suffering as punishment for their stupidity. Stupidity is not always punished in this world, but it usually is, and the punishment is typically severe, because that's the only way to get stupid people to learn. Same as teaching a stupid animal: since stupid animals can't / won't learn by logical reasoning, they have to be beaten silly with a stick until pain finally sinks in and forces them to learn.
Not the first to use following metaphor, but worth repeating over and over. If a robber points a gun at your stomach and says "give me all the money in your wallet", then you are very stupid not to comply, because certainly your life is with more than any amount of money. Yes, complying is cowardly surrender. And? Go back and read this metaphor over and over until you understand, because the alternative is what happens in the preceding paragraph: if you can't learn by reason, including via metaphors, then you will be probably be beaten silly with a stick, so to speak, to force you to learn.[/QUOTE]From the Ukrainian perspective, they're fighting for their very lives. It's irrelevant whether you, or anyone else, agrees with that assessment. That's how Ukrainians view the situation and that's why their response is what it is. Using your robber scenario, if you believe (or are sure) that the robber intends to kill you, then you'll resist in any way possible and with all your might. The truly stupid reaction would be to do anything else.
So, to anyone sitting in their comfy chair, observing from a safe distance and opining that Ukraine should be doing this or that, I'm guessing a clear and loud "go fuck yourself" would be the likely Ukrainian response.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2704063]Too bad 60+ frivolous lawsuits were laughed out the door. LOL Better luck in 2024.
P.S. Best wishes on your English language studies.[/QUOTE]Based on the swing counties I know. I believe Biden won the election. However, I am also distressed by how lax the Democrats want to make voting standards going forward. I have no problem with moving voting to Sundays, but I have a lot of problems with recent trends towards mail-in voting, unmanned voting boxes and vote harvesting efforts.
You would have to be naive to think that there is a lack of election integrity in some Democratic and Republican cities and counties in the United States. The money in our government is too big for unethical behavior not to follow. The "there's no evidence" line is a cop out. Most people know that you can't detect most voter fraud. And yet, people on both sides have still been convicted over the years.
The Courts really don't want to intervene. They want state and local jurisdictions to get their shit together and keep it that way. Just my two cents.
[QUOTE=Bill1963;2704187]Yeah debunked with leftwing lies.[/QUOTE]Yep Bill, like your cohorts you just cry "fake news" and never read the article, nice and easy and requires little brain power. Here's you're guy. See attachment. His his criminality and history of spreading false information is well documented, as is the flawed methodologies, non-sequiturs, and omissions in "2000 Mules." Better luck in 2024. Wink.
[URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ[/URL]
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2704369]Based on the swing counties I know. I believe Biden won the election. However, I am also distressed by how lax the Democrats want to make voting standards going forward. I have no problem with moving voting to Sundays, but I have a lot of problems with recent trends towards mail-in voting, unmanned voting boxes and vote harvesting efforts.
You would have to be naive to think that there is a lack of election integrity in some Democratic and Republican cities and counties in the United States. The money in our government is too big for unethical behavior not to follow. The "there's no evidence" line is a cop out. Most people know that you can't detect most voter fraud. And yet, people on both sides have still been convicted over the years..[/QUOTE]Then you are "distressed" for no reason. Americans have been voting securely by mail for 150 years. And the FBI and other election security experts aren't distressed don't know what you think you know.
"In a press briefing on election security on Aug. 26, senior FBI officials said they've found no evidence of coordinated fraud with mail-in ballots and also highlighted how unlikely the scenario would be. 'It would be extraordinarily difficult to change a federal election outcome through this type of fraud alone, given the range of processes that would need to be affected or compromised by an adversary at the local level,' the FBI said. ".
[URL]https://www.cnet.com/news/politics/mail-in-voting-fraud-is-nearly-impossible-to-commit/[/URL]
Read the whole article for details and illustrations.
And you erect and knock down a straw man. No one is saying "no evidence" of fraud, but that it's rare and didn't come remotely close to changing the outcome of the 2020 election. And everyone's shit is together. Even the sham recount by a partisan group in Arizona turned up nothing. Yes we get all the conspiracy theories like 2000 mules, like out of all these "mules" none have loose lips and all are keeping the secret. Then there's the 60+ frivolous lawsuits that never got off the ground. Voter fraud is rare, with Trump's top election security official Chris Krebs calling the last election the most secure in US history. And voter fraud involves a felony and is impractical on an individual basis just to get in an extra vote for a preferred candidate, especially for someone here on a green card that would be deported.
Mail in voting is common in a number of countries, and we have seen plenty of success with it in the US. Conservatives are against it while for a number of ways to make it harder to vote because they are increasingly in the minority and cannot win national elections otherwise. They depend on low turnout. It's a solution without a problem, and we get it with the racist dog whistles and all the focus on and imagery of Hispanics in Arizona and blacks in Georgia and Philadelphia processing ballots, "Birth of a Nation" revisited, nothing new under the sun. That was Trump's calling card from the start, backlash from the first black president, and it continues. It sells and is lucrative. Anyway enjoy a bit more reading, or, if you don't like those, Google is full articles that oppose the ideas you are sympathetic towards. I'm taking a break from the monger forum war and politics for a while as I'm overwhelmed with work responsibilities. Plus I already thoroughly hashed this one out with the conservatives in the American politics forum. Am not up for a rerun, at least not so soon.
[URL]https://www.demandthevote.com/truth-about-voter-id[/URL]
[URL]https://news.columbia.edu/in-mail-absentee-ballots-secure-vote-election[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2703802]Every nation other than Russia and Ukraine is at best tangential, and at worst irrelevant.
As I see it, Ukraine's requirements for any kind of cease-fire (or more) would be, at a minimum, Russia's withdrawal to pre-invasion boundaries. I see no indication that's even close to being acceptable to Russia.
Russia apparently believes it can hold out against sanctions and attrition of military resources long enough to seize all of Luhansk, Donetsk, and a land corridor to Crimea. And, from other sources I've recently read, some in Russia believe they can reconstitute their forces enough to make another push at Kyiv.
While Ukraine's thinking, as I understand it, is that they can bend without breaking and, with Western support, continue to grind down Russia's ability to effectively wage war. And, on that front, there are things happening to encourage Ukraine. Putin has failed to call for national mobilization, perhaps fearing backlash or widespread disobedience or avoidance, and Russia has eliminated the upper age limit for military service. Those, and similar developments, indicate that Putin is having a hard time finding soldiers. And any who are recruited today will need to be trained for at least several months before achieving even minimal fighting proficiency.
So, that's a longish way of saying that neither side is anywhere close to believing they need to negotiate. When one side, or both, is sufficiently beaten up, then who the negotiator is, while important, won't be the primary issue..[/QUOTE]I actually enjoy your authoritative posts. As I kind of mentioned with another poster, I would be careful delving into the idea that there are some certain outcomes in the aftermath of this war.
I have avoided making definitive statements about where things will end up. You are correct that the Ukraine is fighting an existential war. However, I don't think we want to push Putin and the Russian military into thinking this is an existential war for Russia. I'm not talking about letting the Russians leverage the nuke card for gain. I am talking about driving the Russians to commit to an extended war that never seems to end.
I have no idea how things will end up. If you think the Ukraine will push the Russians out of the Eastern Ukraine / Crimea and the Russians will just pack up, go home and everything will be settled, I would hope for that but I think it is optimistic.
You're right the Ukrainians on the ground, don't care what I think about negotiations. Since this war is impacting the global economy everyone has a stake in it.
As far as a third party broker being tangential, I would disagree and say they can be helpful at times. Obviously the Ukraine and Russia have to both tire of the war and want to pursue a way out, but there are so many levers and so many implications globally I think there are countries that can help. Just the fact that some prominent European leaders were trying to tell Putin on the phone that the war was not going great for him is an act of trying to drive peace negotiations.
Here's a good quote from the Reuters article. It's entirety is worth a read.
"Listing all of the steps needed to falsify a ballot, Gronke told Reuters: '1) You need a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope. If the claim is that you've somehow obtained 400,000 original ballots without the elections officials or voters knowing, how precisely did you do this?
"2) You need to successfully forge the voter's signature. 3) You need to deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.
Congratulations! Besides committing a felony, you have now cast ONE fraudulent ballot. Now you need to figure out how to do that hundreds of thousands of times, in different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials.'"
[URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ[/URL]
We have fake excuses for voter suppression while scammers make a buck peddling the narrative a la Carlson and the convicted embezzler d'Sousa. That's bad enough but when it undercuts our democracy a la Jan 6th then we need to take a stand.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2704503]Here's a good quote from the Reuters article. It's entirety is worth a read.
"Listing all of the steps needed to falsify a ballot, Gronke told Reuters: '1) You need a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope. If the claim is that you've somehow obtained 400,000 original ballots without the elections officials or voters knowing, how precisely did you do this?
"2) You need to successfully forge the voter's signature. 3) You need to deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.
Congratulations! Besides committing a felony, you have now cast ONE fraudulent ballot. Now you need to figure out how to do that hundreds of thousands of times, in different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials.'"
[URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ[/URL]
We have fake excuses for voter suppression while scammers make a buck peddling the narrative a la Carlson and the convicted embezzler d'Sousa. That's bad enough but when it undercuts our democracy a la Jan 6th then we need to take a stand.[/QUOTE]I'm not arguing about the past election. I just don't like a reliance on mail-in voting. If one doesn't like expanding mail-in voting like myself, they certainly don't like unmanned ballot collection boxes.
This discussion tends to raise the ire of people fixated on January 6. I would have told you the same thing in 2019. I am not even remotely concerned about the results of the 2020 election.
Republicans do benefit from low turnout. However, Democrats benefit from shepherding their voters. The question is how much "shepherding" is too much. As an example when I ordered a mail-in ballot during 2020, I provided my Driver License number. Key words: "I ordered" "Drives License number." Certain requirements seem fairly reasonable and yet still get argued.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2704503]Here's a good quote from the Reuters article. It's entirety is worth a read.
"Listing all of the steps needed to falsify a ballot, Gronke told Reuters: '1) You need a falsified ballot with a unique bar code, printed on special paper, and a special envelope. If the claim is that you've somehow obtained 400,000 original ballots without the elections officials or voters knowing, how precisely did you do this?
"2) You need to successfully forge the voter's signature. 3) You need to deposit the envelope and have it validated by a local official.
Congratulations! Besides committing a felony, you have now cast ONE fraudulent ballot. Now you need to figure out how to do that hundreds of thousands of times, in different jurisdictions, with different ballot styles and different voting materials.'"
[URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-usa-mules/fact-check-does-2000-mules-provide-evidence-of-voter-fraud-in-the-2020-u-s-presidential-election-idUSL2N2XJ0OQ[/URL]
We have fake excuses for voter suppression while scammers make a buck peddling the narrative a la Carlson and the convicted embezzler d'Sousa. That's bad enough but when it undercuts our democracy a la Jan 6th then we need to take a stand.[/QUOTE]I'm not arguing about the past election. I just don't like a reliance on mail-in voting. If one doesn't like expanding mail-in voting like myself, they certainly don't like unmanned ballot collection boxes.
This discussion tends to raise the ire of people fixated on January 6. I would have told you the same thing in 2019. I am not even remotely concerned about the results of the 2020 election.
Republicans do benefit from low turnout. However, Democrats benefit from shepherding their voters. The question is how much "shepherding" is too much. As an example when I ordered a mail-in ballot during 2020, I provided my Driver License number. Key words: "I ordered" "Drives License number". Certain requirements seem fairly reasonable and yet still get argued.
I've posted often that the direction of the tide is more important than the action of the waves. This article sets a similar tone, warning against the mood swings that can accompany positive and negative reports (about either side).
[URL]https://www.ft.com/content/f2f360e0-25f8-4060-83a3-775eb244d1d2[/URL]
Imagine if WW-II (or pick your war) battles had been subject to near-instantaneous comments and analysis on Twitter, Instagram, etc. I'm personally not a huge fan of social media (prob a generational thing) but it's easy to see how such media channels can make it difficult to keep the big picture in clear focus.
P.S. When I used the above link for the first time, I got a readable version of the article. But using it again resulted in a paywalled page. If the link doesn't work for you, try this one:
[URL]https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.ft.com/content/f2f360e0-25f8-4060-83a3-775eb244d1d2[/URL]
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2704492]I actually enjoy your authoritative posts. As I kind of mentioned with another poster, I would be careful delving into the idea that there are some certain outcomes in the aftermath of this war.
I have avoided making definitive statements about where things will end up. You are correct that the Ukraine is fighting an existential war. However, I don't think we want to push Putin and the Russian military into thinking this is an existential war for Russia. I'm not talking about letting the Russians leverage the nuke card for gain. I am talking about driving the Russians to commit to an extended war that never seems to end.
I have no idea how things will end up. If you think the Ukraine will push the Russians out of the Eastern Ukraine / Crimea and the Russians will just pack up, go home and everything will be settled, I would hope for that but I think it is optimistic.
You're right the Ukrainians on the ground, don't care what I think about negotiations. Since this war is impacting the global economy everyone has a stake in it.
As far as a third party broker being tangential, I would disagree and say they can be helpful at times. Obviously the Ukraine and Russia have to both tire of the war and want to pursue a way out, but there are so many levers and so many implications globally I think there are countries that can help. Just the fact that some prominent European leaders were trying to tell Putin on the phone that the war was not going great for him is an act of trying to drive peace negotiations.[/QUOTE]I agree that trying to predict specific outcomes is a fool's errand. I have been pretty consistent, however, in my assertion that there are no reality-based winnable scenarios for Russia, only varying degrees of failure.
And, as I see it, that's not so much a prediction as an observation. To me it's similar to seeing someone who painted themselves into a corner. You can't predict exactly what pattern of steps they'll follow, but you can safely observe that there's no path out of the corner that avoids getting paint on the shoes. Of course, they could simply decide to stay in the corner, but that's just another failure variant. I think the FT article I just posted does a good job of keeping things in the proper perspective, and I think those who are yielding to the temptation of making predictions are getting caught up in a mood-swing mentality.
As far as third-party brokers are concerned, maybe I'm having a brain cramp but for the life of me I'm struggling to recall a circumstance, at least in modern times, in which any have played a substantive role or made a material difference. Do you have any specific examples in mind?
When one combatant surrenders unconditionally it doesn't much matter where the agreement is signed. And if neither side is ready to negotiate, third parties are irrelevant, as witness the Ukraine-Russia meetings that took place in Istanbul. Maybe the best role for a mediator, when the time is ripe, is just to provide a meeting venue and make sure there's plenty of coffee on hand! Oh yes, and pastries would be great, as would a nice lunch. The French would have been prime candidates had not Macron made his recent "let's not humiliate Putin" comment. Whether one agrees with him or not, he's clearly disqualified himself in the eyes of Ukraine. In fact, I think most of the European "great powers" (UK, France, Germany, etc.) have ruled themselves out. So, the million-dollar question is, who is left?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2704863]The French would have been prime candidates had not Macron made his recent "let's not humiliate Putin" comment. Whether one agrees with him or not, he's clearly disqualified himself in the eyes of Ukraine. In fact, I think most of the European "great powers" (UK, France, Germany, etc.) have ruled themselves out. So, the million-dollar question is, who is left?[/QUOTE]Not necessarily. UK and Boris Johnson in particular are very popular in Ukraine (unlike Germany, France and Italy).
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2704955]Not necessarily. UK and Boris Johnson in particular are very popular in Ukraine (unlike Germany, France and Italy).[/QUOTE]Bad on me, I should been more clear about the disqualifications coming from both sides, as in France and Germany would be nixed by Ukraine and the UK nixed by Russia.
Does Switzerland's neutrality allow it to serve in a mediator role? Other than the Swiss, it's hard to think of another country in Europe that hasn't formally or informally chosen a side.
Turkey or Israel could mediate.
However, there is little reason to believe in any good faith from the Russian side since there is not one agreement standing they have respected with Ukraine. I think only a resounding defeat of Russia will be the end of this war, otherwise Russia will simply regroup and do the same again whilst lying in the faces of the International community.
Only way to curtail it's power to wean away the reliance on Russian resources, and ensure that long term, technologies like microchips are not exported to Russia.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2704967]Bad on me, I should been more clear about the disqualifications coming from both sides, as in France and Germany would be nixed by Ukraine and the UK nixed by Russia.
Does Switzerland's neutrality allow it to serve in a mediator role? Other than the Swiss, it's hard to think of another country in Europe that hasn't formally or informally chosen a side.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=VinDici;2705105]Turkey or Israel could mediate.
However, there is little reason to believe in any good faith from the Russian side since there is not one agreement standing they have respected with Ukraine. I think only a resounding defeat of Russia will be the end of this war, otherwise Russia will simply regroup and do the same again whilst lying in the faces of the International community.
Only way to curtail it's power to wean away the reliance on Russian resources, and ensure that long term, technologies like microchips are not exported to Russia.[/QUOTE]Yep.
Russia has recognized Ukraine's borders AT LEAST 4 times in the last 30 years.
1. 1991: Russia recognizes Ukrainian independence.
2. 1994: Budapest Memorandum.
3. 1997: RussianUkrainian Friendship Treaty.
4. 2010: Kharkiv Pact.
What else do they want to realize that Russia can't be trusted. Sign anything with them, and they'll use the break to regroup and start again. They don't give a shit about Donbass, they came to Ukraine FOR Ukraine.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2705211]...2. 1994: Budapest Memorandum...[/QUOTE]Just to refresh people's memory, prior to 1994 Ukraine held over 1700 nuclear warheads on multiple missles, bombers, etc. They had the third largest nuclear arsenal in the world. They gave up these weapons in exchange for international treaty assurances, including (and principally) Russia, that guaranteed the integrity of Ukrainian borders. Russia is clearly the treaty breaker here; however, the US and the UK do bear some responsibility for not coming to their defense in 2014.
You'll appreciate the pun when you watch the short video included in the thread:
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1533800802657124352.html[/URL]
I didn't mention Russia, as its mentioned all over here.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2703685]I'm sure there are plenty of ways to look at the situation, including views from 10,000 feet that focus on which players (countries and companies) might benefit from, or be taking advantage of, the conflict.
But it's hard for me to concern myself with such issues while Ukrainians are being killed, captured, tortured, and their cities reduced to uninhabitable rubble.
When confronted with that in-your-face reality, there are only a very few questions at the top level of priority:
Q: Who bears primary responsibility for the conflict?
A: Russia.
Q: Who is the only party with the ability to unilaterally bring an end to the conflict?
A: Russia.
Q: How can the conflict be stopped?
A: By Russia deciding to stop, either by their own independent decision, or as a response to external and (or) internal pressures.
While other questions and issues may be valid and worth exploring, they must necessarily take a back seat to the primary issues listed above. I'm certainly open to debating which countries might secretly, or not so secretly, be hoping for Ukraine to fail (Serbia, Hungary, Germany, etc.), or which countries are giving Ukraine their full support (Poland, Baltics, etc.), or which countries (USA, France, Italy, etc.) might be slow-walking assistance because they see upsides to a protracted conflict.
I have no illusions about the fact that there are plenty of bad actors who could, and should, be named and shamed. But Job #1 is ending the war, full stop. And that will only happen if Russia has a change of mind (unlikely), or if a combination of battlefield defeats, attrition, and pressures from within and without, cause them to have that change of mind.[/QUOTE]
US fought more wars than any other country after WWII, I guess that is a fact.
The fact is I am not worried about who is at war, but the common people is who will suffer in the end.
Lot of us will debate on the ideologies.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2704172]All you've done is ignore all of Jmsuttr's points and concerns while repeating the same assertions all over again, but this time tacking on double exclamation marks at the end of each sentence. And you earn a demerit by adding the ludicrous claim that the US has been the only country involved in war since WW II. We should expect better, even in a hooker forum. Why don't you go back and try again? Wink.[/QUOTE]
If you read my first post, probably you would have got the point.
I am not bothered about who started the war or who is fighting.
War is bad for sure, and its extremely worse for the common people.
Now it comes to the question of NATO, Why didn't NATO support Ukraine directly, and we could have hoped optimisticaly, that would have stopped the war? Or by now reached a negotiation?
Then we might say, Ukraine is not a NATO member? Kuwait, Vietnam, S Korea to name a few none of them where. In reality if NATO wants to help, they can!
That is the point, there is business in war, more than saving people and ending war.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2704179][URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2703784&viewfull=1#post2703784[/URL]
If Russia doesn't want to stop fighting the war, the only way the US could make them stop would require the use of force by the US military, or NATO, or both.
That would a) Play into Putin's hands by allowing him to frame the conflict as existential, with Russia's nationhood at stake, and; b) Exponentially raise the risk that nuclear weapons could be used.
Also, you're mistaken as to a fundamental fact. Putin made the decision to invade Ukraine, not the US and not American arms manufacturers. It was Putin, and he alone, who started the war. And, since he started it, the war will continue until Putin, or his successor, gives the order to stop.
Any questions?[/QUOTE]
Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.
But no one is trying to stop it.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2704185]I wonder what can possibly possess a grown-up to say something so monumentally stupid.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Mike963;2705674]Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.
But no one is trying to stop it.[/QUOTE]Exactly, it makes no sense. We have created a monster in the Ukraine President. The CIA is promising him the world, mean while, economies are tanking. Great job Biden!!
[QUOTE=Mike963;2705674]Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.
But no one is trying to stop it.[/QUOTE]And, in response, Russia would destroy half the world, and NATO would proceed to destroy the other half.
There, no more war, we've solved it, right?
You sound like a child whining at their parents to make the thunder and lightning stop. It's understandable that a child doesn't know the difference between what's possible and what's not, because they think their parents can do anything.
So, what's your excuse? Please tell us who has the power to make the thunder and lightning stop?
Or, if you prefer, we could simply push the button that ends up decimating the world. Not to worry, if you live anywhere near a population center, you shouldn't feel much. Just a bright flash and it'll all be over. And, as a bonus, your silhouette will be emblazoned on the nearest wall.
But hey, the war will stop. In fact, ALL wars will be stopped. Happy days, right?
P. S. There are two things in the world that are universally hated. There are probably more, but for sure at least two. Mosquitoes are the first. Everybody hates them. The second are people who constantly whine and complain about things, but offer nothing constructive. In school, in the workplace, among acquaintances (and even family), those people are universally hated. So far, your posts in this forum have placed you firmly in that latter group.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2705709]Exactly, it makes no sense. We have created a monster in the Ukraine President. The CIA is promising him the world, mean while, economies are tanking. Great job Biden!![/QUOTE]I'm not defending either pre-invasion Ukraine, or the CIA. I'm simply stating a plain and unassailable fact.
The Russian army, acting solely on Putin's orders, marched into Ukraine on Feb 24th and proceeded to devastate entire cities, with no regard for civilian casualties.
If you want to characterize Zelensky and the CIA as demons, go right ahead. But Putin has demonstrated that he's Satan incarnate, and that he needs to be defeated, and hopefully destroyed.
Every time I see a post that tries to deny, or sidestep, Putin's exclusive agency and responsibility for the war, I will point out the factual error. Every time.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2705722]P. S. There are two things in the world that are universally hated. There are probably more, but for sure at least two. Mosquitoes are the first. Everybody hates them. p.[/QUOTE]Mosquitoes are not universally hated. West Africans have songs praising them because they killed the white colonialists, people like you. But then Africans are not even people to things like you.
Meanwhile, the great Russian Army roll on and American continues to fight to the last Ukrainian.
Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.
BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.
[QUOTE=Mike963;2705674]Who wants war, and we can safely say Russia started, true.
But no one is trying to stop it.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2705726]I'm not defending either pre-invasion Ukraine, or the CIA. I'm simply stating a plain and unassailable fact.
The Russian army, acting solely on Putin's orders, marched into Ukraine on Feb 24th and proceeded to devastate entire cities, with no regard for civilian casualties.
If you want to characterize Zelensky and the CIA as demons, go right ahead. But Putin has demonstrated that he's Satan incarnate, and that he needs to be defeated, and hopefully destroyed.
Every time I see a post that tries to deny, or sidestep, Putin's exclusive agency and responsibility for the war, I will point out the factual error. Every time.[/QUOTE]I have never said Putin is not to blame. He started it, but there also many others that do not want the war to end. We should be demanding a ceasefire and negotiations. Cut off some of the money and weapons, you will see a settlement quickly.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2705799]Mosquitoes are not universally hated. West Africans have songs praising them because they killed the white colonialists, people like you. But then Africans are not even people to things like you.
Meanwhile, the great Russian Army roll on and American continues to fight to the last Ukrainian.[/QUOTE]Is that the best you've got? A post defending mosquitoes? With friends like you, the full and total humiliating defeat of the Russian orcs is assured! The Ukrainian defenders have their mosquito swatters and sprays at the full ready!
Congratulations, you have once again besoiled yourself for all to see. ROTFLMFAO!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2705726]I'm not defending either pre-invasion Ukraine, or the CIA. I'm simply stating a plain and unassailable fact.
The Russian army, acting solely on Putin's orders, marched into Ukraine on Feb 24th and proceeded to devastate entire cities, with no regard for civilian casualties.
If you want to characterize Zelensky and the CIA as demons, go right ahead. But Putin has demonstrated that he's Satan incarnate, and that he needs to be defeated, and hopefully destroyed.
Every time I see a post that tries to deny, or sidestep, Putin's exclusive agency and responsibility for the war, I will point out the factual error. Every time.[/QUOTE]Much of the victim blaming is based on Russian propaganda disseminated in the West 2014 and onwards that goes largely unanswered, or just slanted academic analysis that blames NATO while ignoring the agencies of the Eastern Euro countries that had good reason to want to join.
That was just an excuse anyway as Putin later said he had no problems with Sweden and Finland joining. Ukraine has some very valuable lands, farming and seaports. Putin wants them. Many wars have been fought in that region over the centuries for that precise reason.
[URL]https://www.politico.eu/article/putin-russia-no-problem-finland-sweden-join-nato/[/URL]
Plus Zelensky was democratically elected and Ukraine has a Freedom House score of 61 out of 100, not great but about on par with Hungary. They've made a lot of progress. It's far greater than Russia's dismal 15 and Belarus' 5.
[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL]
Mostly what we get here though is what I'd call monger forum drive by whiners. They lay out conspiracy theories while usually blaming US democrats for anything that may be wrong in their own lives or in the world. No source or proof is linked, and when asked for it it's never forthcoming. They don't return until they have another unproven assertion or if the mood strikes them to repeat the prior one over again. They don't want to tell us that they heard it the other night listening to Tucker Carlson or reading an obscure far right blog or their FB feed. Here's a good article, especially much of what is found through the sourced imbedded links. This source has a fabulous rating in the matter of media bias and fact checks.
[URL]https://theconversation.com/how-russias-unanswered-propaganda-led-to-the-war-in-ukraine-180202[/URL]
[URL]https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-conversation/[/URL]
Here's more that's worth a look.
[URL]https://www.state.gov/fact-vs-fiction-russian-disinformation-on-ukraine/[/URL]
[URL]https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/how-russia-is-spreading-blatantly-false-information-about-the-war-in-ukraine[/URL]
[URL]https://news.stanford.edu/2022/03/03/seven-tips-spotting-disinformation-russia-ukraine-war/[/URL]
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2705999]Cut off some of the money and weapons, you will see a settlement quickly.[/QUOTE]There you have it! Your prescription for ending the war would only affect Ukraine. Russia has already been cut off from money and weapons, to the maximum extent that sanctions can be agreed upon and applied.
Therefore, your "solution" would ONLY have a negative impact on Ukraine. Why don't you drop all pretense and simply declare that you're in favor of Ukrainian capitulation? How pathetic that, instead of having the courage of your convictions (even if wrong) you slink around using weasel-words.
It took a while, but eventually the truth always comes out.
P.S. You can now, once and for all, drop the further pretense that you give a shit about the Ukrainian people. Just take a look at Mariupol if you need a reminder of what Russian "victory" looks like.
It's characteristics and how to counter it.
[URL]https://www.rand.org/pubs/perspectives/PE198.html[/URL]
[QUOTE=Travv;2705814]Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.
BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.[/QUOTE]Whether one is discussing the situation in Eastern Ukraine, or the Israeli-Palestinian strife, or that of Turkey against the ethnic Kurds, it's not possible to make an objective analysis if one has already accepted the preferred narrative of one of the parties in the conflict.
Here's a pretty comprehensive look at the issues, and competing Ukraine vs Russia narratives, authored by a German organization:
[URL]https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2019RP05[/URL]
Reading, or even skimming, through the report, it's quite evident how far apart the narratives of each of the sides are. One can certainly set the starting point of the timeline at 2014, and one can certainly argue that the Minsk Accords are an equitable solution. But intellectual honesty and integrity requires pointing out that such a view is in substantial agreement with the pro-Russia narrative, and is dismissive of the Ukrainian position.
As I've posted numerous times, I'm not interested in defending pre-invasion Ukraine. I frankly don't care what provocations, real or imagined, Russia was enduring. As the bigger and more powerful country, they had a range of options by which they could have responded. Marching in with an army, and lobbing bombs and missiles at civilians, is unacceptable by any moral standard.
Russia is unequivocally the aggressor, and Putin bears sole responsibility. With those facts fixed firmly in mind, my hope is for the most humiliating possible defeat for Russia. And my second hope is that Russia's own people see to a Mussolini-like denouement for Little Vlad.
As for which country ends up paying for its leader's stupidity, there's a compelling argument to be made that Russia will come out the long-term loser.
Just fueled up yesterday at the pump and noticed the prices are skyrocketing. Meanwhile the Russians have lots of gas and oil and are making bank and rolling in the cash from energy sales. This war is boosting the income that Russia receives from its oil and gas. Look in the mirror and figure out who is being sanctioned at the gas pump and grocery store. Tucker: You are about to get a lot poorer. Fox News host reacts to Biden banning Russian oil and natural gas imports on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight. ' #FoxNews #Tucker Biden's Latest Attack on the Middle Class. A youtube video dated March 8, 2022 well worth watching as it accurately describes who is getting screwed with these sanctions. Got a mirror handy? Visited the gas station for a fillup lately?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2706037]Whether one is discussing the situation in Eastern Ukraine, or the Israeli-Palestinian strife, or that of Turkey against the ethnic Kurds, it's not possible to make an objective analysis if one has already accepted the preferred narrative of one of the parties in the conflict.
Here's a pretty comprehensive look at the issues, and competing Ukraine vs Russia narratives, authored by a German organization:
[URL]https://www.swp-berlin.org/10.18449/2019RP05[/URL]
Reading, or even skimming, through the report, it's quite evident how far apart the narratives of each of the sides are. One can certainly set the starting point of the timeline at 2014, and one can certainly argue that the Minsk Accords are an equitable solution. But intellectual honesty and integrity requires pointing out that such a view is in substantial agreement with the pro-Russia narrative, and is dismissive of the Ukrainian position.
As I've posted numerous times, I'm not interested in defending pre-invasion Ukraine. I frankly don't care what provocations, real or imagined, Russia was enduring. As the bigger and more powerful country, they had a range of options by which they could have responded. Marching in with an army, and lobbing bombs and missiles at civilians, is unacceptable by any moral standard.
Russia is unequivocally the aggressor, and Putin bears sole responsibility. With those facts fixed firmly in mind, my hope is for the most humiliating possible defeat for Russia. And my second hope is that Russia's own people see to a Mussolini-like denouement for Little Vlad.
As for which country ends up paying for its leader's stupidity, there's a compelling argument to be made that Russia will come out the long-term loser.[/QUOTE]
You made a racist statement about mosquitoes and Africans. I corrected you. All you can do in your little Habara factory is hurl insults. From a point of view of ignorance.
"Russian orcs" more racism.
Go and beat up some Christians or Muslims, you pig.
Meanwhile, the Russian military roll on to victory.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2706000]Is that the best you've got? A post defending mosquitoes? With friends like you, the full and total humiliating defeat of the Russian orcs is assured! The Ukrainian defenders have their mosquito swatters and sprays at the full ready!
Congratulations, you have once again besoiled yourself for all to see. ROTFLMFAO![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2705709]Exactly, it makes no sense. We have created a monster in the Ukraine President. The CIA is promising him the world, mean while, economies are tanking. Great job Biden!![/QUOTE]So Putin needs to be awarded The Flying Fickle Finger of Fate award for defending Russia and its people by destroying and occupying at present 20% of Ukraine.
Remember Czechoslovakia in 1968 ?? [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Y228MtvAa3I[/URL].
By the way, I am not an American!!
As I said, whatever happend who will lose? The Common people!
[QUOTE=Travv;2705814]Time to you to step up and stop this war yourself by volunteering at the local Ukrainian embassy for a free ticket to a Ukrainian training camp where you will become Rambo and single handedly end this war by stopping the Russian Army! LOL.
BTW, if a country bombarded Jews (or ethnic Russians in the Donbass) for 8 years and refused to sign a peace treaty like the Minsk Accords, as Zelensky refused to do, would Israel (or Russia) be an aggressor if it invaded the country that had been bombarding Jews for 8 years? The difference between children and many Americans is that children grow up and accept reality. Many Americans don't. Pissing off the Russians was a bad idea and now Ukraine is paying for Zelensky's stupidity.[/QUOTE]
And it looks like I already have a compnay in that group.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2705722]And, in response, Russia would destroy half the world, and NATO would proceed to destroy the other half.
There, no more war, we've solved it, right?
You sound like a child whining at their parents to make the thunder and lightning stop. It's understandable that a child doesn't know the difference between what's possible and what's not, because they think their parents can do anything.
So, what's your excuse? Please tell us who has the power to make the thunder and lightning stop?
Or, if you prefer, we could simply push the button that ends up decimating the world. Not to worry, if you live anywhere near a population center, you shouldn't feel much. Just a bright flash and it'll all be over. And, as a bonus, your silhouette will be emblazoned on the nearest wall.
But hey, the war will stop. In fact, ALL wars will be stopped. Happy days, right?
P. S. There are two things in the world that are universally hated. There are probably more, but for sure at least two. Mosquitoes are the first. Everybody hates them. The second are people who constantly whine and complain about things, but offer nothing constructive. In school, in the workplace, among acquaintances (and even family), those people are universally hated. So far, your posts in this forum have placed you firmly in that latter group.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2704863]As far as third-party brokers are concerned, maybe I'm having a brain cramp but for the life of me I'm struggling to recall a circumstance, at least in modern times, in which any have played a substantive role or made a material difference. Do you have any specific examples in mind?
When one combatant surrenders unconditionally it doesn't much matter where the agreement is signed. And if neither side is ready to negotiate, third parties are irrelevant, as witness the Ukraine-Russia meetings that took place in Istanbul. Maybe the best role for a mediator, when the time is ripe, is just to provide a meeting venue and make sure there's plenty of coffee on hand! Oh yes, and pastries would be great, as would a nice lunch. The French would have been prime candidates had not Macron made his recent "let's not humiliate Putin" comment. Whether one agrees with him or not, he's clearly disqualified himself in the eyes of Ukraine. In fact, I think most of the European "great powers" (UK, France, Germany, etc.) have ruled themselves out. So, the million-dollar question is, who is left?[/QUOTE]Third party brokers routinely appear in peace talks. Whether the talks resulted in a permanent end to conflict is another story. The Indians assisted in ending the Korean Conflict. As many know, there was no signed agreement just a cessation of military conflict. The most famous and successful peace talks might be the Camp David Accords where Jimmy Carter engaged the Egyptians and the Israelis. He won a Nobel Peace Prize in the process and the peace has held for forty years. There have been many foreign parties involved in peace negotiations in the series of recent agreements in the Sudan. I am not up on the Sudan to know how successful the peace talks have been in maintaining peace.
You might look at recent talks in Istanbul as a waste of time. Obviously, peace talks work best when both parties are tired and exhausted from the conflict. I have no idea how this conflict will be settled. No one knows if a permanent peace will be attainable.
The Paris Peace Talks went on for four years before an agreement was signed. Clearly, the United States thought (wrongly) they had something to gain to continue on with the conflict. I would hope no one wants to see Russia fighting in the Ukraine for several years. Again, I don't know how it comes to an end.
As far as who is left to be an honest broker (with not too much emphasis on broker), I already have mentioned Turkey, India and even China. Although China praised Putin before the war, I'm not sure they have done anything material to support Russia.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2706016]There you have it! Your prescription for ending the war would only affect Ukraine. Russia has already been cut off from money and weapons, to the maximum extent that sanctions can be agreed upon and applied.
Therefore, your "solution" would ONLY have a negative impact on Ukraine. Why don't you drop all pretense and simply declare that you're in favor of Ukrainian capitulation? How pathetic that, instead of having the courage of your convictions (even if wrong) you slink around using weasel-words.
It took a while, but eventually the truth always comes out.
P.S. You can now, once and for all, drop the further pretense that you give a shit about the Ukrainian people. Just take a look at Mariupol if you need a reminder of what Russian "victory" looks like.[/QUOTE]They need to find a solution to end this, both sides need to compromise. Nobody is winning. Maybe this is what Putin wants, destroying worlds economies, mean while he keeps selling gas. Ukraine is in a no win situation, they need a solution, fast. This part of life, you do not always, get what you want. Take the best deal, live to fight another day. Make a Ukraine a great country, eliminate the corruption, that had been plaguing this county for years. You guys conveniently forgot this.
Yes, I do feel bad for the people, but I have no compassion for either government. Yes, Putin is to blame, but Ukraine government are no saints, far from it. Sorry this is the truth.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2705516]You'll appreciate the pun when you watch the short video included in the thread:
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1533800802657124352.html[/URL][/QUOTE]This is why you don't rely on economic statistics published by authoritarian regimes.
Private investment groups dig into statistics that the regime is not giving attention and manipulating. Western investment groups look at Chinese electric usage and truck traffic to see what is happening inside the China economy.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2706202]You made a racist statement about mosquitoes and Africans. I corrected you. All you can do in your little Habara factory is hurl insults. From a point of view of ignorance.
"Russian orcs" more racism.
Go and beat up some Christians or Muslims, you pig.
Meanwhile, the Russian military roll on to victory.[/QUOTE]This is great stuff! What other mottos do you chant? Is "Give me your juicy arm or give me death" one of them?
Please tell us, do you support ALL mosquito rights? What about trans and same-sex mosquitoes? Or do you only advocate for cishet, gender-normative mosquitoes? And what about genetically modified mosquitoes? You know, the ones designed to mate but not procreate? What's your position on them?
The questions above, and others, are important in determining whether you're consistent in your defense of mosquito rights. For example, do you condemn Russians who kill mosquitoes? And what about West Africans who, while appreciative of mosquitoes troubling the colonialists, still hate them when it comes to their own blood being sucked?
So many questions! Wait, do you also do slugs? It occurs to me that the slug is another candidate for a universally hated organism. Do you defend the rights of slugs against racist gardeners who sprinkle salt on them, or who spread diatomaceous earth on the ground to slice up their slimy underbellies? That underrepresented invertebrate is clamoring for your attention and support!
Oh, and as far as the term "orc" is concerned, it describes any Russian invader in Ukraine, irrespective of race or ethnicity. If you were REALLY concerned about racism, you'd be condemning the white ethnic Russians of Moscow and St. Petersburg, who sit back in relative comfort while they send their racial and ethnic Central Asian minorities to fight and die. Putin's ideal of Russian purity doesn't include those people, so it's perfectly acceptable for them to be used as cannon fodder.
One more important question: Did you have to study to become this stupid, or were you born this way?
[QUOTE=Travv;2706148]Just fueled up yesterday at the pump and noticed the prices are skyrocketing. Meanwhile the Russians have lots of gas and oil and are making bank and rolling in the cash from energy sales. This war is boosting the income that Russia receives from its oil and gas. Look in the mirror and figure out who is being sanctioned at the gas pump and grocery store. Tucker: You are about to get a lot poorer. Fox News host reacts to Biden banning Russian oil and natural gas imports on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight. ' #FoxNews #Tucker Biden's Latest Attack on the Middle Class. A youtube video dated March 8, 2022 well worth watching as it accurately describes who is getting screwed with these sanctions. Got a mirror handy? Visited the gas station for a fillup lately?[/QUOTE]Short-term (wave):
Russia gets an income boost because of higher energy prices.
Long-term (tide):
Russia's customer base is negatively impacted because countries are in the process of switching to other suppliers in order to avoid being victimized by Russia's weaponized energy policies. And the western technology needed to keep Russia's energy industry in operation is being withheld, and is unlikely to return for years, if not decades. Which means that breakdowns and bottlenecks are increasingly in store.
Also, there's certainly an argument to be made that the US has made itself more vulnerable as it's moved away from energy independence. One doesn't have to be a supporter of the former administration to recognize that US energy policy has substantially changed. In fact, critics of the current administration have observed that advocates of "green energy" are using the present situation to advance their agenda. What's that phrase again? Oh yes, "Never let a crisis go to waste," IIRC.
I don't watch Tucker, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that, in his criticism of Biden, at some point he must have mentioned the shift in energy policy, right? And, if that's the case, any discussion of sanctions-related (oil, gasoline, and gas) price increases that doesn't ALSO mention the effects of policy changes is flawed and intellectually dishonest. A balanced argument would explore the notion that, if US energy resources were being maximally exploited, it's quite possible we'd have enough to take care of our own needs and also a surplus to support our allies and world markets.
So, while this topic may make for a compelling TV program and YouTube video, like so many "clickbait" issues, it's really an argument that doesn't hold up to scrutiny.
P.S. I've made several posts addressing Russia's inability, due to sanctions on goods and services, to use their income effectively. And I've also posted references to sources that show the drastic decrease of imports into Russia, even from supposedly friendly countries. Again, the tide is more important than the waves.
You keep conveniently forgetting that anything other than a total loss for Russia will result in them quietly rebuilding and then trying this again as soon as they are able. Ukraine is fighting for its very existence, once that is assured, they can work on things like better governance.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2706344]They need to find a solution to end this, both sides need to compromise. Nobody is winning. Maybe this is what Putin wants, destroying worlds economies, mean while he keeps selling gas. Ukraine is in a no win situation, they need a solution, fast. This part of life, you do not always, get what you want. Take the best deal, live to fight another day. Make a Ukraine a great country, eliminate the corruption, that had been plaguing this county for years. You guys conveniently forgot this.
Yes, I do feel bad for the people, but I have no compassion for either government. Yes, Putin is to blame, but Ukraine government are no saints, far from it. Sorry this is the truth.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2706344]They need to find a solution to end this, both sides need to compromise. Nobody is winning. Maybe this is what Putin wants, destroying worlds economies, mean while he keeps selling gas. Ukraine is in a no win situation, they need a solution, fast. This part of life, you do not always, get what you want. Take the best deal, live to fight another day. Make a Ukraine a great country, eliminate the corruption, that had been plaguing this county for years. You guys conveniently forgot this.
Yes, I do feel bad for the people, but I have no compassion for either government. Yes, Putin is to blame, but Ukraine government are no saints, far from it. Sorry this is the truth.[/QUOTE]Russia's aggression in Ukraine has been labeled genocide by many countries. If you'd like specifics, here's a detailed list:
[URL]https://www.justsecurity.org/81564/compilation-of-countries-statements-calling-Russian-actions-in-Ukraine-genocide/[/URL]
What you conveniently forget, and others who suggest there's a "deal" that allows Ukraine to "fight another day," is Russia's extensive record of elimination a list statements against Ukraine.
[URL]https://www.justsecurity.org/81789/russias-eliminationist-rhetoric-against-Ukraine-a-collection/[/URL]
So, if someone is trying to kill you, by what logic do you have a duty to stop defending yourself? Is it fine with you if those who could help refuse because you're not a saint? Or should we just shout "just work things out and stop" at you and your assailant (who is much more powerful and will annihilate you the moment you stop resisting)?
So, whether you agree or not, there's a clear consensus among many countries that Ukraine is fighting for its very survival against a genocidal aggressor. And, when someone is trying to kill you, every day you stay alive is a win.
FWIW, if there's any justice in the world, the aggressor will be the one who ends up being destroyed, removing them forever from being a future threat.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2706398]
I don't watch Tucker, so I can't say for sure, but I imagine that, in his criticism of Biden, at some point he must have mentioned the shift in energy policy, right? And, if that's the case, any discussion of sanctions-related (oil, gasoline, and gas) price increases that doesn't ALSO mention the effects of policy changes is flawed and intellectually dishonest. A balanced argument would explore the notion that, if US energy resources were being maximally exploited, it's quite possible we'd have enough to take care of our own needs and also a surplus to support our allies and world markets.[/QUOTE]We were far from "energy independent" under Trump though petroleum imports decreased by about 20% over his entire tenure. In 2020 we became a "net exporter" and we still are. None of that though makes us immune to global markets, while blaming Biden for current gas prices in the face of worldwide inflation is silly and politically motivated. Not to mention the fact that you'd consider taking Tucker Carlson seriously is cause for concern. Even his lawyer publicly laughs at people that believe him. LOL.
[URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-energyindependence-explainer/fact-check-which-factors-determine-u-s-energy-independence-idUSL2N2VQ2ZV[/URL]
[URL]https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/31/fact-sheet-president-bidens-plan-to-respond-to-putins-price-hike-at-the-pump/[/URL]
P.S. For those that like roll down the road with a lot of machinery, giant pickups and SUVs, well the chickens have come home to roost. Unless you seriously need those kinds of vehicles for work or to transport large families, I have no sympathy when you pay $5 for a gallon of gas.
[QUOTE=VinDici;2706463]You keep conveniently forgetting that anything other than a total loss for Russia will result in them quietly rebuilding and then trying this again as soon as they are able. Ukraine is fighting for its very existence, once that is assured, they can work on things like better governance.[/QUOTE]You are talking to someone (Drama Free) who claimed he had been to Ukraine and saw their tiny army, then was gloating about how Russia would squash them in a week. That didn't pan out for him so he comes back every few days claiming Ukraine is just as evil and to blame as Russia if not more so. Any evidence presented to the contrary is ignored while the same fallacious arguments are repeated ad nauseum. He does the Chicken Little claiming world economies will tank if we don't stop sending Ukraine weapons, but he said the same about Covid which is now becoming endemic and the world is still standing. Well the West will continue to provide weapons, as Ukraine wants to fight and for the reasons you stated. Plus there's overwhelming bi-partisan support for Ukraine in the US with only 11 Republican senators voting against the latest aid package. Ukraine will fight, and with our weapons. But in any case, ignore Drama Free as he's a broken record that lacks the will or capacity to comprehend and acknowledge the truths others are telling him.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2706588]We were far from "energy independent" under Trump though petroleum imports decreased by about 20% over his entire tenure. In 2020 we became a "net exporter" and we still are. None of that though makes us immune to global markets, while blaming Biden for current gas prices in the face of worldwide inflation is silly and politically motivated. Not to mention the fact that you'd consider taking Tucker Carlson seriously is cause for concern. Even his lawyer publicly laughs at people that believe him. LOL.
[URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-energyindependence-explainer/fact-check-which-factors-determine-u-s-energy-independence-idUSL2N2VQ2ZV[/URL]
[URL]https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/31/fact-sheet-president-bidens-plan-to-respond-to-putins-price-hike-at-the-pump/[/URL]
P.S. For those that like roll down the road with a lot of machinery, giant pickups and SUVs, well the chickens have come home to roost. Unless you seriously need those kinds of vehicles for work or to transport large families, I have no sympathy when you pay $5 for a gallon of gas.[/QUOTE]Because:
1. I'm not the poster who uses, or advocates using, Tucker Carlson as a source. In fact, I specifically noted that I don't watch him.
2. At no point did I stake out a personal position on US energy policy. What I did, however, is delineate the parameters of an argument that could be made. In other words, my point was to show that simplistic pseudo-conclusions are a flawed way to look at things. The reason why I used the phrases "there's certainly an argument to be made," and "a balanced argument would explore," is because much about that topic is open to debate. I don't have a settled opinion because I haven't thoroughly researched the matter. If you have, good for you.
Right now, the policies I'm most interested in are those that directly assist Ukraine in resisting Russian aggression. I have no time or patience for those who whine about high fuel prices while civilians are being killed by Russian orcs. Pretty much everything else, IMO, is tangential noise.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2706588]We were far from "energy independent" under Trump though petroleum imports decreased by about 20% over his entire tenure. In 2020 we became a "net exporter" and we still are. None of that though makes us immune to global markets, while blaming Biden for current gas prices in the face of worldwide inflation is silly and politically motivated. Not to mention the fact that you'd consider taking Tucker Carlson seriously is cause for concern. Even his lawyer publicly laughs at people that believe him. LOL.
[URL]https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-energyindependence-explainer/fact-check-which-factors-determine-u-s-energy-independence-idUSL2N2VQ2ZV[/URL]
[URL]https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2022/03/31/fact-sheet-president-bidens-plan-to-respond-to-putins-price-hike-at-the-pump/[/URL]
P.S. For those that like roll down the road with a lot of machinery, giant pickups and SUVs, well the chickens have come home to roost. Unless you seriously need those kinds of vehicles for work or to transport large families, I have no sympathy when you pay $5 for a gallon of gas.[/QUOTE]Americans have generally been A holes when it comes down to driving big ass vehicles and wanting cheap gas.
I agree with you. Even if the United States was producing more gas at the margin, we Americans would still be paying the global market rate. No Administration is going to tell the oil industry where to set prices. They can of course ***** and moan.
Having said, American and European green policies are a bit off track when it comes to geopolitical realities. I think some on the Left are reconsidering their opposition to nuclear energy.
[URL]https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20220609-putin-compares-his-actions-to-peter-the-great-s-conquests[/URL]
Here are some excerpts:
1. With respect to St. Petersburg:
A) "you get the impression that by fighting Sweden he (Peter the Great) was grabbing something. He wasn't taking anything, he was taking it back".
B) "none of the countries in Europe recognised this territory as belonging to Russia".
C) "Everyone considered it to be part of Sweden. But from time immemorial, Slavs had lived there alongside Finno-Ugric peoples".
2. With respect to Russia's current mindset:
A) "It is our responsibility also to take back and strengthen.
B) "Yes, there have been times in our country's history when we have been forced to retreat, but only to regain our strength and move forward".
The author of the article implies that these comments are aimed at, and restricted to, the Ukrainian conflict. But I don't see any such limitation in Putin's actual language and wording. The same rhethoric and rationalization could easily be applied to Baltic and Nordic countries, as well as Poland and beyond. The plain fact of the matter is that anyone who thinks this war is ONLY about Ukraine is engaging in wishful thinking. The best antidote to Russian ambition is for them to be comprehensively defeated in this current war.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2706601]You are talking to someone (Drama Free) who claimed he had been to Ukraine and saw their tiny army, then was gloating about how Russia would squash them in a week. That didn't pan out for him so he comes back every few days claiming Ukraine is just as evil and to blame as Russia if not more so. Any evidence presented to the contrary is ignored while the same fallacious arguments are repeated ad nauseum. He does the Chicken Little claiming world economies will tank if we don't stop sending Ukraine weapons, but he said the same about Covid which is now becoming endemic and the world is still standing. Well the West will continue to provide weapons, as Ukraine wants to fight and for the reasons you stated. Plus there's overwhelming bi-partisan support for Ukraine in the US with only 11 Republican senators voting against the latest aid package. Ukraine will fight, and with our weapons. But in any case, ignore Drama Free as he's a broken record that lacks the will or capacity to comprehend and acknowledge the truths others are telling him.[/QUOTE]Great idea, let's pull the weapons, consultants, CIA, and the money. Let's see how well the great Ukraine army does, they sure as hell were not calling the shots at the beginning, maybe a little now. They have done amazing up to this point, but now is time for compromise. Yes, Ukraine is partially to blame for this mess they are in and if the get greedy they will end up flattened and broke. That is not a win, even in the liberal world.
If gas prices keep going up and Bidden refuses to drill then Putin can go on for ever. Hell you guys are making him richer and Russia. They can work around the sanctions. We dodge a bullet with Covid, the economies were battered, and started to rebound, but I doubt we will be so lucky this time, I hope I am wrong.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2706729]Right now, the policies I'm most interested in are those that directly assist Ukraine in resisting Russian aggression. I have no time or patience for those who whine about high fuel prices while civilians are being killed by Russian orcs. Pretty much everything else, IMO, is tangential noise.[/QUOTE]I very much agree. This isn't a fight for Ukraine. No, not at all. This is a fight for Western civilization. As VinDici wrote, "anything other than a total loss for Russia will result in them quietly rebuilding and then trying this again as soon as they are able. " Unless he is stopped, his shit will not end. And things don't improve with Age.
After almost 2 years working with Ukrainians on reform efforts, I know they are trying to improve as a rule-of-law Western democracy. They are not where they need to be, but they are making progress. It is far better than what Russia has done.
Any help we (anybody) gives Ukraine is contributing to a safe, prosperous, peaceful, and positive rule of law future. Americans complaining about paying $5 a gallon for gasoline need to read about the real sacrifices people made in past wars. Beating the enemy at the gates--an enemy bent on destroying Western civilization--takes sacrifices. I don't think it would be possible to do too much to help the Ukrainians.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2706828]Great idea, let's pull the weapons, consultants, CIA, and the money. Let's see how well the great Ukraine army does, they sure as hell were not calling the shots at the beginning, maybe a little now. They have done amazing up to this point, but now is time for compromise. Yes, Ukraine is partially to blame for this mess they are in and if the get greedy they will end up flattened and broke. That is not a win, even in the liberal world.
If gas prices keep going up and Bidden refuses to drill then Putin can go on for ever. Hell you guys are making him richer and Russia. They can work around the sanctions. We dodge a bullet with Covid, the economies were battered, and started to rebound, but I doubt we will be so lucky this time, I hope I am wrong.[/QUOTE]You really should drop the pretense that you give even one iota of shit about Ukraine. It's patently clear that you don't, so what's the point of compounding stupidity with dishonesty?
Every single one of your posts simply oozes ill will against Ukraine. And, when the transparently BS window dressing is stripped away, the hateful bile is there for all to see.
At least our other resident haters, Pedro M and Golfinho, are honest shambolic losers. You're just a shambolic loser who lacks even a shred of honesty.
We can all agree the captured British and Moroccan mercenaries are getting off lightly. A firing squad is too good for their types. But then we have full flown racists, Hasbara trolls and Russophobes here, all happy to see the corrupt Zelensky regime figt to the last Ukrainian Nazis, thousands of whom are now POWs (unlike the mercenaries).
All political parties, bar the Nazis, are now banned in Ukraine and their assets confiscated.
Playing Russian roulette with Russia. Tomorrow Bosnia. Tsar Nicholas got to Paris. Drive the Americans and their Nazis and ISIS puppets out of Europe.
A well balanced Article which doesn't read like an Early End to the war.
[URL]https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ukraine-russia-war-donbas-uk-european-allies-b1004824.html[/URL]
Main points of concern. "Correspondents being briefed by Whitehall officials last week were surprised to be warned that the UK and United States now expect the fighting in Ukraine to go on to the end of the year".
"Ukrainian forces realise that they are in for a long fight and British strategic analysts now think the war itself and security crisis is set to run for at least three years more".
Conclusion. 'The war has become like firelighter fuel on the flaring cost-of-living emergency affecting the food and energy security of this country. Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognise, this is no longer a discretionary matter".
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2707007]We can all agree the captured British and Moroccan mercenaries are getting off lightly. A firing squad is too good for their types. But then we have full flown racists, Hasbara trolls and Russophobes here, all happy to see the corrupt Zelensky regime figt to the last Ukrainian Nazis, thousands of whom are now POWs (unlike the mercenaries).
All political parties, bar the Nazis, are now banned in Ukraine and their assets confiscated.
Playing Russian roulette with Russia. Tomorrow Bosnia. Tsar Nicholas got to Paris. Drive the Americans and their Nazis and ISIS puppets out of Europe.[/QUOTE]Please tell us in which country you reside your sorry ass. Because, when Tsar (ina) Putin decides to "retake" it, or "liberate" it, many of the forum members will be excited to cheer your good fortune.
Putin is a murderous, fascist, thug. And he'd smash you like a bug without giving it a second thought. His "best case" scenario is that cancer kills him before he can be put on trial for his heinous war crimes.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2706938]You really should drop the pretense that you give even one iota of shit about Ukraine. It's patently clear that you don't, so what's the point of compounding stupidity with dishonesty?
Every single one of your posts simply oozes ill will against Ukraine. And, when the transparently BS window dressing is stripped away, the hateful bile is there for all to see.
At least our other resident haters, Pedro M and Golfinho, are honest shambolic losers. You're just a shambolic loser who lacks even a shred of honesty.[/QUOTE]Yes, I hate there government and the corruption. Most of all I hate a useless war, that is causing damage world wide. Find a solution.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2707007]We can all agree the captured British and Moroccan mercenaries are getting off lightly. A firing squad is too good for their types. But then we have full flown racists, Hasbara trolls and Russophobes here, all happy to see the corrupt Zelensky regime figt to the last Ukrainian Nazis, thousands of whom are now POWs (unlike the mercenaries).
All political parties, bar the Nazis, are now banned in Ukraine and their assets confiscated.
Playing Russian roulette with Russia. Tomorrow Bosnia. Tsar Nicholas got to Paris. Drive the Americans and their Nazis and ISIS puppets out of Europe.[/QUOTE]Meanwhile, America's greatest ally -- zionist Isreal -- refuses to go along with the sanctions against Russia. With friends like that, who needs enemies.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2706938]At least our other resident haters, Pedro M and Golfinho, are honest shambolic losers.[/QUOTE]Well, I'm not sure that is exactly true. I am fairly confident Pedro knows much of what he writes is not true.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2707007]"All political parties, bar the Nazis, are now banned in Ukraine"[/QUOTE]But maybe your point is that at least they are honest about hating Ukrainians rather than being honest in their arguments.
I actually think DF may be the opposite--I think he actually believes much of what he argues for (if you can call it an argument), but that his perspective is tainted by his hatred for Ukrainians.
[QUOTE=YummyPL.
Any help we (anybody) gives Ukraine is contributing to a safe, prosperous, peaceful, and positive rule of law future. Americans complaining about paying $5 a gallon for gasoline need to read about the real sacrifices people made in past wars. / QUOTE.
LOL, Just run everywhere advises John Kennedy.
[URL]https://www.newsweek.com/john-kennedy-gas-prices-cocaine-run-everywhere-biden-inflation-1713912[/URL]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2707109]Meanwhile, America's greatest ally -- zionist Isreal -- refuses to go along with the sanctions against Russia. With friends like that, who needs enemies.[/QUOTE]Geopolitics doesn't always allow nations to neatly take sides in every global dispute. I suspect a small nation like Israel understands Russia's military meddling in their backyard and doesn't believe it's in their best interest to not aggravate Russia. This is what is described as realpolitik.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2707039]A well balanced Article which doesn't read like an Early End to the war.
[URL]https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ukraine-russia-war-donbas-uk-european-allies-b1004824.html[/URL]
Main points of concern. "Correspondents being briefed by Whitehall officials last week were surprised to be warned that the UK and United States now expect the fighting in Ukraine to go on to the end of the year".
"Ukrainian forces realise that they are in for a long fight and British strategic analysts now think the war itself and security crisis is set to run for at least three years more".
Conclusion. 'The war has become like firelighter fuel on the flaring cost-of-living emergency affecting the food and energy security of this country. Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognise, this is no longer a discretionary matter".[/QUOTE]With the sensibilities of many being influenced by things like social media and sound-bites on the evening news, the idea that there's a simple solution to a complex problem needs to be constantly and thoroughly refuted.
While I'm not criticizing this specific article, it seems to me that most mainstream media outlets tend to be more a part of the problem than the solution. All too often they either restate the obvious or focus breathlessly on every little ebb and flow in the conflict.
Unfortunately, it's not as sexy (or as positive for ratings) to point out that defeating Russian imperial ambitions will require a long and concerted effort. So it's of paramount importance to guard against mental and emotional fatigue among the freedom-loving countries supporting Ukraine. That means continuing encouragement and support, in any way you can, for Ukrainian resistance is the way to go.
Another criticism I have of most media is their tendency to rely on sources that I would describe as low-hanging fruit. Any government source, for example, carries with it an implicit agenda. That doesn't mean the information is necessarily wrong or untrue, it simply means that the agenda needs to be taken into account.
With this current example, it's possible that the UK government, faced with high inflation and economic stresses, is trying to offload some or all of the responsibility onto the conflict. And it appears they're conditioning the public to expect more of the same. That may not be wrong, but it's an effective way for the govt to avoid making specific policy moves to address current conditions. Much easier to say that everything going on is due to factors beyond their control.
But, all criticism aside, I will applaud the authors for concluding the article with "Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognize, this is no longer a discretionary matter," a statement which is not only true but strikes the right tone.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2707106]Yes, I hate there government and the corruption. Most of all I hate a useless war, that is causing damage world wide. Find a solution.[/QUOTE]There, fixed it for you! Happy now?
And, as an added bonus, my proposed solution not only takes care of the current situation, it also addresses the future threat posed to millions who live in places that Russia might decide are their historical birthright, or whatever other bogus (ex. Denazification) justification they feel like using.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2707109]Meanwhile, America's greatest ally -- zionist Isreal -- refuses to go along with the sanctions against Russia. With friends like that, who needs enemies.[/QUOTE]Israel, as it has been for decades, is in a messy situation in the Middle East. Iran, among others (like you), would like nothing better than for Israel to cease to exist. Whether or not one agrees, Israel views Russia's influence as being necessary to keep some of their enemies on a short leash.
Could they be doing more to support Ukraine? Absolutely! But so could Germany, and the Germans can't claim any such existential reason for their tepid and miserly support. When it comes to America's allies, Germany has much more to answer for.
So where's your anti-German criticism?
[QUOTE=YummyPL;2707118]Well, I'm not sure that is exactly true. I am fairly confident Pedro knows much of what he writes is not true.
But maybe your point is that at least they are honest about hating Ukrainians rather than being honest in their arguments.
I actually think DF may be the opposite--I think he actually believes much of what he argues for (if you can call it an argument), but that his perspective is tainted by his hatred for Ukrainians.[/QUOTE]When it comes to haters, there are a couple of points I think are important to keep in mind:
1. They can't be changed. Whatever the root causes of their hate, they're far too deep and pervasive to be changed from the outside. That means, for all practical purposes, that an adult hater is likely to stay that way until they draw their last hateful breath.
2. They can't be shamed. Their twisted world view has necessarily twisted pretty much everything else in their tortured existence. Logic and argumentation have no effect because, even if they're clearly demonstrated to be in the wrong, haters will simply twist, or deny, or otherwise move heaven and earth in an effort to keep their hate-bubble from being popped.
With those points in mind, my responses to haters are never directed primarily at them, but rather at the audience of readers. I simply refuse to allow the hateful posts to exist in a vacuum, without a response. And, to the extent I use logical argument and sound sources to refute them, that's really for the benefit of others because I know that haters are immune to such things. If my responses serve to better expose the bile of the haters, and the desperate illogic of their pseudo-arguments, that's good enough for me.
Oh yes, and let's not forget ridicule. Since logic is lost on haters, a nice dose of ridicule tends to shut them up for a while as they're not terribly clever and it takes some time for them to come up with a response. And it's even funnier when they can't think of one, as with Pedro M's inability to deal with his new role as a crusader against anti-mosquito racism!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707225]When it comes to haters, there are a couple of points I think are important to keep in mind:
1. They can't be changed. Whatever the root causes of their hate, they're far too deep and pervasive to be changed from the outside. That means, for all practical purposes, that an adult hater is likely to stay that way until they draw their last hateful breath.
2. They can't be shamed. Their twisted world view has necessarily twisted pretty much everything else in their tortured existence. Logic and argumentation have no effect because, even if they're clearly demonstrated to be in the wrong, haters will simply twist, or deny, or otherwise move heaven and earth in an effort to keep their hate-bubble from being popped.
With those points in mind, my responses to haters are never directed primarily at them, but rather at the audience of readers. I simply refuse to allow the hateful posts to exist in a vacuum, without a response. And, to the extent I use logical argument and sound sources to refute them, that's really for the benefit of others because I know that haters are immune to such things. If my responses serve to better expose the bile of the haters, and the desperate illogic of their pseudo-arguments, that's good enough for me.
Oh yes, and let's not forget ridicule. Since logic is lost on haters, a nice dose of ridicule tends to shut them up for a while as they're not terribly clever and it takes some time for them to come up with a response. And it's even funnier when they can't think of one, as with Pedro M's inability to deal with his new role as a crusader against anti-mosquito racism![/QUOTE]Interestingly, I want the war to end, and the 2 countries to find a solution. If that is s hater, then I am one. I do not care who wins, just end this ridiculous war, before things really get out of hand. If this drags on and gas hits $6-7, a gallon, in Texas, then you are looking at $10 in other states, this will cause huge financial ramifications and ruin countless lives.
I have bad news for guys, the more expensive gas gets the more Russia wins, Putin will keep this going forever, he obviously does not care. If you want to defeat Russia we must drill now, and keep the sanctions, but you liberals do not want to do this.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707206]
Could they be doing more to support Ukraine? Absolutely! But so could Germany, and the Germans can't claim any such existential reason for their tepid and miserly support.[/QUOTE]The Germans evidently are too preoccupied with increasing production and supplying the rest of the world with oil and natural gas from their vast reserves and oil fields. 🙄.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2707316]Interestingly, I want the war to end, and the 2 countries to find a solution. If that is s hater, then I am one. I do not care who wins, just end this ridiculous war, before things really get out of hand. If this drags on and gas hits $6-7, a gallon, in Texas, then you are looking at $10 in other states, this will cause huge financial ramifications and ruin countless lives.
I have bad news for guys, the more expensive gas gets the more Russia wins, Putin will keep this going forever, he obviously does not care. If you want to defeat Russia we must drill now, and keep the sanctions, but you liberals do not want to do this.[/QUOTE]US Oil companies are also making record profits--they don't need to charge the American consumer as much as they are. Drilling more now in the USA might also not be a bad idea.
Yes, you are a hater of Ukraine if you think genocide is acceptable (and, in this case, allowing Russia anything short of total defeat is consent or acquiescence to genocide)--and clearly you do. Appeasing Russia in any way is a horrible idea and will not lead to the stability that is your justification for wanting to stop the war by any means.
Plenty of Chairborne warriors, Keyboard Commandoes and Call of Duty Rambos posting on this blog that demand the USA fight Russia. What is needed is a law identifying them and automatically drafting them into an Ukrainian legion unit that needs fresh cannon fodder! All Keyboard commandoes, please report to the closest Ukrainian embassy for your ticket to a Ukrainian boot camp! Wave to Zelensky and the other Ukrainian politicians as they flee Ukraine with suitcases full of the $40 billion of cash the USA just sent them! If Ukraine does not survive, where will US politicians and their sons like Hunter Biden get their kickbacks, bribes and no-work jobs?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707184]With the sensibilities of many being influenced by things like social media and sound-bites on the evening news, the idea that there's a simple solution to a complex problem needs to be constantly and thoroughly refuted.
While I'm not criticizing this specific article, it seems to me that most mainstream media outlets tend to be more a part of the problem than the solution. All too often they either restate the obvious or focus breathlessly on every little ebb and flow in the conflict.
Unfortunately, it's not as sexy (or as positive for ratings) to point out that defeating Russian imperial ambitions will require a long and concerted effort. So it's of paramount importance to guard against mental and emotional fatigue among the freedom-loving countries supporting Ukraine. That means continuing encouragement and support, in any way you can, for Ukrainian resistance is the way to go.
Another criticism I have of most media is their tendency to rely on sources that I would describe as low-hanging fruit. Any government source, for example, carries with it an implicit agenda. That doesn't mean the information is necessarily wrong or untrue, it simply means that the agenda needs to be taken into account.
With this current example, it's possible that the UK government, faced with high inflation and economic stresses, is trying to offload some or all of the responsibility onto the conflict. And it appears they're conditioning the public to expect more of the same. That may not be wrong, but it's an effective way for the govt to avoid making specific policy moves to address current conditions. Much easier to say that everything going on is due to factors beyond their control.
But, all criticism aside, I will applaud the authors for concluding the article with "Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognize, this is no longer a discretionary matter," a statement which is not only true but strikes the right tone.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2707316]Interestingly, I want the war to end, and the 2 countries to find a solution. If that is s hater, then I am one. I do not care who wins, just end this ridiculous war, before things really get out of hand. If this drags on and gas hits $6-7, a gallon, in Texas, then you are looking at $10 in other states, this will cause huge financial ramifications and ruin countless lives.
I have bad news for guys, the more expensive gas gets the more Russia wins, Putin will keep this going forever, he obviously does not care. If you want to defeat Russia we must drill now, and keep the sanctions, but you liberals do not want to do this.[/QUOTE]It doesn't matter how much you try to deny it, the plain truth is available to anyone who looks at your previous posts about Russia and Ukraine. Here's a direct link to help with that:
[URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/search.php?searchid=10945092[/URL]
It takes only a few minutes to peruse your posts since the beginning of the war. One thing that's immediately evident is your thoroughly anti-Ukrainian attitude. It ranges from a "they had it coming" kind of tone to advocating for a "they just need to bend over and take it up the ass" position.
Whenever you mention Russia, in stark contrast, you consistently minimize their responsibility for the aggression and, even when the subject of war crimes is raised, your (beyond pathetic!) response is to minimize that, as well, since you believe nobody will be able to hold Putin to account. Really? That's it? There's a rampaging murderer on the loose but it's too difficult and inconvenient to do anything about him (move along, move along). You display absolutely no sense of outrage, zero, zip, nada. Of course, if the raping and pillaging was happening on your street, or in your house, you'd be singing a different tune (assuming you survived).
But wait, there's more! Every time the discussion touches on finding a solution, you EXCLUSIVELY advocate for proposals that would disadvantage ONLY the Ukrainian side. In fact, your recent attempts to claim that you're concerned with both sides is transparently dishonest bullshit, probably caused by the fact that you've been consistently outed (and shredded) as an anti-Ukraine hater by myself and others.
But, but, but, you whine and complain, what about inflation and gas prices and my personal situation? Well, your wallet seems fat enough to enable you to cross the border into Mexico and find fat hookers to fuck, right? So, if cheap fucks like you are having no problem finding an ample source of cheap fucks, things must not be so bad, eh?
But please feel free to continue posting your anti-Ukraine bile. I actually relish the opportunity to keep demonstrating what a cowardly and lying sack of shit you are. And I'm also quite happy to know that all my responses will become a part of the forum-record that contributes to accurately identifying the fingerprints of a hater.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2707533]The Germans evidently are too preoccupied with increasing production and supplying the rest of the world with oil and natural gas from their vast reserves and oil fields. 🙄.[/QUOTE]Germany is going to do what it wants, and Israel is going to do what it wants. But your double-standard, with respect to these two important US allies, speaks for itself.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707225]With those points in mind, my responses to haters are never directed primarily at them, but rather at the audience of readers. I simply refuse to allow the hateful posts to exist in a vacuum, without a response. And, to the extent I use logical argument and sound sources to refute them, that's really for the benefit of others because I know that haters are immune to such things. If my responses serve to better expose the bile of the haters, and the desperate illogic of their pseudo-arguments, that's good enough for me.[/QUOTE]In all seriousness this is a noble cause, and it assures that the Stupid Shit in Kyiv thread will never die. There's no commitment greater than commitment to lies. And as to any lonely attention seekers trolling just for reactions, then you are giving them what they are after and will keep coming back.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;2707578]US Oil companies are also making record profits--they don't need to charge the American consumer as much as they are. Drilling more now in the USA might also not be a bad idea.
Yes, you are a hater of Ukraine if you think genocide is acceptable (and, in this case, allowing Russia anything short of total defeat is consent or acquiescence to genocide)--and clearly you do. Appeasing Russia in any way is a horrible idea and will not lead to the stability that is your justification for wanting to stop the war by any means.[/QUOTE]You are one, whacked guy. Hanging out in Kiev during a war. American's should not suffer for this stupidity. Let Europe deal with this. This is not the oil companies fault, you guys love to blame everyone else, but yourselves. President Biden is at fault for cutting production and increasing regulations.
Funny, I have forgotten more about Ukraine then you will ever know. First, you never talk about the corruption and how the government was stealing from everyone, including there own poor people. Secondly, you never talk about how everyone has been fleeing from the country for well over 10 years. You never bring of this up, you just conveniently forgot about it.
Hanging out in Ukraine makes, no sense even before the war. Most were saying how bad it was. You must not able to get girls in other countries, or too cheap, or both. You are one of the few that was singing the phrases of Ukraine before the war, it was a dump, filled with corruption. Call me what you want. This is endless stupid war. Yes, Ukraine government is partially to blame for all there lies, corruption and silly games, but ultimately most of the blame is on Putin. The Ukraine's that are still in country are incident victims.
[QUOTE=Travv;2707638]Plenty of Chairborne warriors, Keyboard Commandoes and Call of Duty Rambos posting on this blog that demand the USA fight Russia. What is needed is a law identifying them and automatically drafting them into an Ukrainian legion unit that needs fresh cannon fodder! All Keyboard commandoes, please report to the closest Ukrainian embassy for your ticket to a Ukrainian boot camp! Wave to Zelensky and the other Ukrainian politicians as they flee Ukraine with suitcases full of the $40 billion of cash the USA just sent them! If Ukraine does not survive, where will US politicians and their sons like Hunter Biden get their kickbacks, bribes and no-work jobs?[/QUOTE]I've never advocated for the US to become directly militarily involved. Not once.
And the rest of your post is, quite simply, the purest example of vapid idiocy that's been seen in this forum for a long time. It's the ISG version of Coke Zero, without the Coke.
But, hey! You're getting very close to being promoted to a rank equivalent to Pedro M! There's still more work to be done, however. Keep posting about your loser wet-dreams and throw in a few about mosquitoes, and maybe slugs. Oh, yes! And Hasbro toys, don't forget about those.
If you try really hard, you could achieve Pedro M-ness before you know it.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2707660]In all seriousness this is a noble cause, and it assures that the Stupid Shit in Kyiv thread will never die. There's no commitment greater than commitment to lies. And as to any lonely attention seekers trolling just for reactions, then you are giving them what they are after and will keep coming back.[/QUOTE]I've been posting in various forums for a very long time and I keep seeing the mantra about "not feeding the trolls," which I believe is based on a bogus premise.
One way it's flawed is that it presumes that trolls are comprised of a single, homogenous group. There are some who will go away if ignored, but there are plenty who will not.
There are some, IMO, who have a hate-filled agenda and will never go away. Rather they're happy to fill any vacuum with their bile. When I see people being killed on a mass scale, and whole cities turned into piles of rubble, it doesn't put me in a mood to ignore those who gloat about and glorify such evil. So my response is two-fold, expose their lies and humiliate them as much as I possibly can. While they may be attention-seekers, no one likes being made into a laughingstock.
That's my two-cents worth, and I won't be changing my approach. If that doesn't fit your model, feel free to take your own advice and ignore my posts.
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1535582101621420032.html[/URL]
The Russian-born author writes about how the book market (popular, not literature) was used from the 2010's to rehabilitate Stalin and shape Russian public opinion about Ukraine, the West, and more.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707648]But wait, there's more! Every time the discussion touches on finding a solution, you EXCLUSIVELY advocate for proposals that would disadvantage ONLY the Ukrainian side. In fact, your recent attempts to claim that you're concerned with both sides is transparently dishonest bullshit, probably caused by the fact that you've been consistently outed (and shredded) as an anti-Ukraine hater by myself and others.
But, but, but, you whine and complain, what about inflation and gas prices and my personal situation? Well, your wallet seems fat enough to enable you to cross the border into Mexico and find fat hookers to fuck, right? So, if cheap fucks like you are having no problem finding an ample source of cheap fucks, things must not be so bad, eh?
But please feel free to continue posting your anti-Ukraine bile. I actually relish the opportunity to keep demonstrating what a cowardly and lying sack of shit you are. And I'm also quite happy to know that all my responses will become a part of the forum-record that contributes to accurately identifying the fingerprints of a hater.[/QUOTE]He couldn't care less about anyone's life but maybe his own. The main objective though is to whine online playing Chicken Little while all his needs are met and he has hooker money ta boot. If it weren't the war he's be squawking that the end is near about something else. It's a way of life for some people.
As the heroes of the Russian Army finish liberating Sievierodonetsk, the Nazis have retreated with their human hostages to the chemical plant, where they will probably stage a false flag attack. Democracy's enemies. The Zelensky junta and their Western backers. Know they are beaten and their tooth to tail ratio says it all. Zelenksy and the other gangsters have made a fortune selling hardware on the Dark Web (one more reason to be careful of air travel).
The hasbara racists here calling Russians orcs should stfu. Ukraine destroyed, Poland is next.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;.
A well balanced Article which doesn't read like an Early End to the war.
[URL]https://www.standard.co.uk/comment/ukraine-russia-war-donbas-uk-european-allies-b1004824.html[/URL]
Main points of concern. "Correspondents being briefed by Whitehall officials last week were surprised to be warned that the UK and United States now expect the fighting in Ukraine to go on to the end of the year".
"Ukrainian forces realise that they are in for a long fight and British strategic analysts now think the war itself and security crisis is set to run for at least three years more".
Conclusion. 'The war has become like firelighter fuel on the flaring cost-of-living emergency affecting the food and energy security of this country. Supporting Ukraine against Russian aggression is now part of the UK's own survival and prosperity. As many in Washington and Whitehall now recognise, this is no longer a discretionary matter". / QUOTE.
As if they are singing from the same hymn sheet about When, How, the war in Ukraine will ene.
Again I will Highlight the main points in this Article by Richard Hass. [URL]https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/russian-federation/2022-06-10/ukraine-strategy-long-haul[/URL].
1. "But wars end in only one of two ways: when one side imposes its will on the other, first on the battlefield, then at the negotiating table, or when both sides embrace a compromise they deem preferable to fighting. In Ukraine, neither scenario is likely to materialize anytime soon. The conflict has become a war of attrition, with Russian and Ukrainian forces now concentrated against each other in a relatively confined area. Diplomatically, the Ukrainians have little interest in accepting Russian occupation of large swaths of their territory. Russian President Vladimir Putin, for his part, has little interest in agreeing to anything that could be judged at home to constitute defeat. The inescapable conclusion, then, is that this war will go onand on".
2 . "With victory and compromise both off the table for the foreseeable future, the United States and Europe need a strategy for managing an open-ended conflict. "Managing," not "solving," is the operative word here, because a solution almost certainly would require a fundamental change in Moscow's behavior.
3 Conclusion. The solution is in Moscow " Ultimately, what is probably required to end the war is a change not in Washington but in Moscow. In all likelihood, given Putin's deep investment in the war, it will require someone other than him to take steps that would end Russia's pariah status, economic crisis, and military quagmire. The West should make clear that it is ready to reward a new Russian leader prepared to take such steps even as it keeps up the pressure on the current one".
[QUOTE=TravvPlenty of Chairborne warriors, Keyboard Commandoes and Call of Duty Rambos posting on this blog that demand the USA fight Russia. What is needed is a law identifying them and automatically drafting them into an Ukrainian legion unit that needs fresh cannon fodder![/QUOTE]The simple solution would be to supply Ukraine with what it needs most, namely Longer Range Missiles to enable it also to hit targets deep in Russia [URL]https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/06/02/ukraine-donbas-us-military-aid-long-range-missiles/[/URL].
Well we all know why that want happen! [URL]https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/06/05/ukraine-putin-missiles/[/URL].
'Putin threatens to hit new targets if long-range missiles are sent to Ukraine."
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707650]Germany is going to do what it wants, and Israel is going to do what it wants. But your double-standard, with respect to these two important US allies, speaks for itself.[/QUOTE]What color's the sky where you are?
Hasbara trolls crying about 'double standards'. You can't make this stuff up.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2707804]As the heroes of the Russian Army finish liberating Sievierodonetsk, the Nazis have retreated with their human hostages to the chemical plant, where they will probably stage a false flag attack. Democracy's enemies. The Zelensky junta and their Western backers. Know they are beaten and their tooth to tail ratio says it all. Zelenksy and the other gangsters have made a fortune selling hardware on the Dark Web (one more reason to be careful of air travel).
The hasbara racists here calling Russians orcs should stfu. Ukraine destroyed, Poland is next.[/QUOTE]Interesting news, although you were obviously already aware, that Putin's goons collect his shit and piss whenever he goes abroad.
[URL]https://www.news.com.au/world/europe/vladimir-putins-bodyguards-box-up-his-poo-on-trips-abroad-report/news-story/d547e847accdb70c3b00bf7d9e2544f0[/URL]
Do they freeze-dry it so you can restock your pantry, or do you eat it fresh? Does it concern you that LilliPutin's excrement is probably loaded with cancer cells?
Only thing worse than a psychopath is a paranoid psychopath. Or is that an oxymoron?
P.S. Please tell us, what does orc-shit taste like? Is it a little bit like chicken? And do you take your orc-piss straight up, or with ice?
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2707867]What color's the sky where you are?
Hasbara trolls crying about 'double standards'. You can't make this stuff up.[/QUOTE]Wow, it must be pretty bare in that anti-Semitic nano-cranium of yours if the best retort you can muster is a parroting of the lame Hasbro Toys insult trademarked by your Putin-loving troll-twin!
Thanks for conclusively demonstrating your intellectual and rhetorical impotence for all to see. I think there's a pill for that. You should check it out. Alas, I'm not aware of any cure for terminal unoriginality.
BTW, the color of the sky today is Jewish. Oops, I mean blue-ish. Is the color of the sky where you are a shade of orc-ish, or maybe a little bigot-ish?
Jojosun,
Amazing post. They need to find a solution. I also feel they need to force Ukraine to negotiate, if they are unwilling, then there needs to be ramification.
Yes, the United States and Europe need a strategy to deal with this ASAP. Start drilling our asses off. I can care less if the oil companies make money, this a much better option then Putin laughing all the way to the bank.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707698]I've been posting in various forums for a very long time and I keep seeing the mantra about "not feeding the trolls," which I believe is based on a bogus premise.
One way it's flawed is that it presumes that trolls are comprised of a single, homogenous group. There are some who will go away if ignored, but there are plenty who will not.
There are some, IMO, who have a hate-filled agenda and will never go away. Rather they're happy to fill any vacuum with their bile. When I see people being killed on a mass scale, and whole cities turned into piles of rubble, it doesn't put me in a mood to ignore those who gloat about and glorify such evil. So my response is two-fold, expose their lies and humiliate them as much as I possibly can. While they may be attention-seekers, no one likes being made into a laughingstock.
That's my two-cents worth, and I won't be changing my approach. If that doesn't fit your model, feel free to take your own advice and ignore my posts.[/QUOTE]Your defensiveness is unwarranted as I wasn't thinking in terms of any "mantras. " But it does stand to reason that attention seekers will go where they are get it. It takes no keen analysis to figure that one out.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2707867]What color's the sky where you are?
Hasbara trolls crying about 'double standards'. You can't make this stuff up.[/QUOTE]Another British has died for Slava Ukraini. Very said [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908745/British-former-soldier-killed-fighting-frontline-Ukraine.html[/URL].
On the positive side, the weather is good in Kiev and everyone is out enjoying it [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908575/Ukrainians-flock-beaches-Kyiv-defiance-against-Russian-invasion.html[/URL].
Poland, a staunch ally of the Kiev Nazis, is telling its folk to forage for wood, if they don; t want to freeze next winter. One of my Polak servants tells me the price of coal has more than doubled back home. In a country that is half coal [URL]https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/06/03/poland-encourages-people-to-collect-firewood-in-forests-amid-soaring-energy-costs/[/URL].
Slava Ukraine: Glory hole to Zelenskys bank account. I see this utter lunatic who plays the piano with his weiner is now threatening China over Taiwan. We are being troll led by this degenerate [URL]https://www.laprensalatina.com/zelenskyy-calls-for-diplomatic-preventive-action-for-taiwan/[/URL].
Flash your dick, become a corrupt Ukrainian President.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;2707578]US Oil companies are also making record profits--they don't need to charge the American consumer as much as they are. Drilling more now in the USA might also not be a bad idea.[/QUOTE]There is an old adage "the cure for high oil prices is high oil prices".
It's obvious when you break down the logic. High oil prices will encourage more global exploration and production. It does every time. We have lived through these cycles many times. Additionally, I bet sales of big ass trucks and SUVs are slowing down.
A few climate zealots will always proclaim we are running out of oil. It also doesn't help when the USA And Europe are deliberately muting the price signals to produce more gas and oil domestically.
[QUOTE=Travv;2707638]Plenty of Chairborne warriors, Keyboard Commandoes and Call of Duty Rambos posting on this blog that demand the USA fight Russia. What is needed is a law identifying them and automatically drafting them into an Ukrainian legion unit that needs fresh cannon fodder![/QUOTE]This outburst is fallacious on it's face as it attempts to take the focus off the arguments you object to and place it on the personal characters of the persons making them. Yes, if someone comes to my city unprovoked waging war, bombing maternity wards and bread lines I'll take up weapons and defend. I likewise support our allies, the Ukrainians who wish to do the same in their cities. Having an opinion on that doesn't commit one to becoming a professional overseas mercenary, and that especially applies to the AARP members among us. There's thus no hypocrisy involved. Your fallacy is called the tu quoque, which is a take on the ad hominem.
[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque[/URL]
[URL]https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem[/URL]
Go back and try again, and present some arguments as to why you feel Russia is in the right, and why Ukrainians are unworthy of help and / or why the West shouldn't help them. Your buddies could use some help as they are stuck in a loop of refuted arguments and can't seem to find any new material.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707694]But, hey! You're getting very close to being promoted to a rank equivalent to Pedro M![/QUOTE]How do you know they aren't the same person?
[URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/11/the-return-of-banditry-russian-car-industry-buckles-under-sanctions[/URL]
Since Putin's propaganda peddlers will always paint a positive picture, it's informative to examine some real-world examples.
The first part of the article deals with automotive issues. The second part talks about aviation and contains a couple of ominous quotes from Russian pilots:
1. "One pilot who regularly covered midhaul flights to the UK and other European destinations for his airline wrote that the situation was "fucked", adding that he felt his company was ignoring safety concerns brought up by pilots on a regular basis."
2. "According to my information, some (Russian) airlines in their warehouses have enough wheels and pads for another month maximum."
The second quote is extremely interesting as, although not terribly sexy, aircraft wheels, brake pads, and similar parts, are constantly experiencing wear and tear, requiring replacement on a routine (maintenance) schedule or on an emergency basis. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to see a significant incident with a Russian airline (non-missile related) in the near future. Also, as safety concerns rise, will Russian planes be denied certification for landing at airports that are currently open to them (Turkey, China, UAE, etc.)? Just another set of items to add to the Russia Collapse-O-Meter watchlist.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707698] So my response is two-fold, expose their lies and humiliate them as much as I possibly can. While they may be attention-seekers, no one likes being made into a laughingstock.[/QUOTE]Like I said, keep it up. It makes for some fun reading, but few of these will ever feel humiliated. That's because they have a long list of logical fallacies to fall back on. Probably the most used in monger forums is the ad nauseum or proof by repetition. In this they ignore all rebuttals and repeat the same fallacious arguments over and over. Then they save face in their minds and avoid feeling humiliated.
[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-by-Repetition[/URL]
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2707926]I also feel they need to force Ukraine to negotiate, if they are unwilling, then there needs to be ramification.[/QUOTE]Sure, ignore the murderous, rapacious, Z-elephant in the room. What a pathetic piece of work you are. And once again you try to pretend you're being "even-handed" when you're truly anti-Ukraine, right down to your cowardly core.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2707935]Another British has died for Slava Ukraini. Very said [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908745/British-former-soldier-killed-fighting-frontline-Ukraine.html[/URL].
On the positive side, the weather is good in Kiev and everyone is out enjoying it [URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10908575/Ukrainians-flock-beaches-Kyiv-defiance-against-Russian-invasion.html[/URL].
Poland, a staunch ally of the Kiev Nazis, is telling its folk to forage for wood, if they don; t want to freeze next winter. One of my Polak servants tells me the price of coal has more than doubled back home. In a country that is half coal [URL]https://notesfrompoland.com/2022/06/03/poland-encourages-people-to-collect-firewood-in-forests-amid-soaring-energy-costs/[/URL].
Slava Ukraine: Glory hole to Zelenskys bank account. I see this utter lunatic who plays the piano with his weiner is now threatening China over Taiwan. We are being troll led by this degenerate [URL]https://www.laprensalatina.com/zelenskyy-calls-for-diplomatic-preventive-action-for-taiwan/[/URL].
Flash your dick, become a corrupt Ukrainian President.[/QUOTE][URL]https://nypost.com/2022/06/06/two-russian-generals-dead-in-one-day-of-donbas-fighting-report/[/URL]
I wonder what the casualty list would look like if it included officers shot, blown up, or run over, by their own "loyal" Russian troops?
That reminds me, where's Gerasimov? I haven't seen any Putin-propaganda reports about his "victorious" visit to the front lines. You know, the one in which he was wounded and barely escaped with his life. Yes, that one.
And where are the accounts of front line visits by Head Orc Putin? Not even a trip to "friendly" areas? What's up with that?
Maybe there's a critical shortage of Poop-Brigade members? Hey, Pedro M, your services are urgently required!
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2707967]Like I said, keep it up. It makes for some fun reading, but few of these will ever feel humiliated. That's because they have a long list of logical fallacies to fall back on. Probably the most used in monger forums is the ad nauseum or proof by repetition. In this they ignore all rebuttals and repeat the same fallacious arguments over and over. Then they save face in their minds and avoid feeling humiliated.
[URL]https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Argument-by-Repetition[/URL][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]How do you know they aren't the same person?[/QUOTE]I don't. But I'm perfectly capable of humiliating one multiple-personality afflicted troll as easily as two separate ones.
[QUOTE]It makes for some fun reading, but few of these will ever feel humiliated.[/QUOTE]The humiliating effect of the posts is intended for the audience, rather than the humiliatee. Turning the troll into a laughingstock, an object of ridicule and derision, is the aim. I well understand that the trolls have no shame, as they lack the necessary self-awareness.
[QUOTE]Your defensiveness is unwarranted as I wasn't thinking in terms of any "mantras. " But it does stand to reason that attention seekers will go where they are get it. It takes no keen analysis to figure that one out.[/QUOTE]To the first part: If you don't want to provoke an (IMO) understandable defensive response, then you might want to avoid responding to posts, not directed at you, with what can reasonably be construed as a lecturing tone.
To the second part: I don't dispute the attention-seeking characterization of trolls. Rather I dispute the assumption that all of them will simply go away if ignored. It's my assertion that there's a subset of trolls, most notably the hate-filled variety, who will never go away. And that's because hate needs no outside driver or stimulus. Hate is self-perpetuating because it's motivated by twisted internal factors, and it sees the promulgation of hate as its own reward. It's like a horribly troubled child who tortures cats or pulls the wings off flies. Anyone who says it's just a phase, and will go away if ignored, is just wrong.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707973]Sure, ignore the murderous, rapacious, Z-elephant in the room. What a pathetic piece of work you are. And once again you try to pretend you're being "even-handed" when you're truly anti-Ukraine, right down to your cowardly core.[/QUOTE]As, I said I can care less how wins, find a solution.
Both sides are terrible, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt governments ever or an Evil Dictator, pick your poison. Both sides are extremely corrupt, and we should not let them drag the worlds economy down, with there stupid decisions.
Let's do an Audit of Ukraine President and Parliament, I doubt you guys will like what we find.
NATO office boy Jens Stoltenberg, at a meeting with Finland's office boys, has said NATO will trade Ukrainian territory for peace. Too late. Ukraine must meet the demands of Russia and, if Poland and Romania ant a slice, ok. Also, the Biden family and other Americans involved in biolabs must get their day in court, a Russian court.
Stoltenberg would do best by traveling to the north of his country and camping out with polar bears, who need a feed.
Finland, meanwhile, now won't join NATO without Sweden.
Hopefully soon it will be open season.
Zelensky, the gangster who plays the piano with his cock, is abandoned, just like he abandoned his troops in the East.
Other News: There have been over two dozen mass shootings in the USA since those children were massacred in Texas. The Israelis, who are over represented in this thread, continue to slaughter and rob the natives by the day. You people are beyond contempt.
Let's not forget how the war really started back in 2014. Of course no one is talking about these things. And we all know who is behind the coup.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXslPCrN_9E[/URL]
I'm with my Ukrainian girlfriend now in Chisinau. She arrived a week ago and everything is going well between us. For a short while in March / April, she was back in the small town where she grew up, living with her relatives, even had a job in her father's factory. Told me she had changed and might not be able to see me any more. Then after another month she quarreled with her relatives, returned to Kyiv and was back to her normal self. Nothing like a few months of factory work in a small town to make a girl appreciate being sponsored in the big city.
I don't try to put ideas in her head. Just let her talk. She is ethnic Ukrainian, but not nationalist. Mainly worried about the apartment in Kyiv she bought last year, which has escaped damage so far. Doesn't give a damn about Donbas or Crimea. Was complaining that Poroshenko wanted and Zelensky wants war because they can steal more that way. Also complains that all the good young men are dying (in other words, she wants options to being dependent on 30 year older foreigners like me, not that I'm surprised or offended). Bad young men (alcoholics, criminals, stupid) are not at risk because the army doesn't want them or they run off and hide in a dacha somewhere. She predicts the next generation of Ukrainians will be idiots if they keep killing the good young men while leaving bad ones alive. I disagreed: one surviving good man can impregnate 100 young women, if necessary. But not me, I have a vasectomy. Anyway, I don't think she has any interest in children. She got a cat when she turned 30 and her phone is filled with photos of the animal. (he is cute, I must admit.).
War isn't over, but the outcome is increasingly obvious. At the current rate of bleeding, Ukraine will be in no position to launch a counter-attack. New USA artillery enough to stop Russian advances, but not push Russia back. So there will be a stalemate. Russia takes entire southeast, including access to Azov sea. Then they dig trenches and wait 5 years for EU to get tired of hearing about Ukraine. Meanwhile, Russia reconfigures to be immune to sanctions, thus free to cause all sorts of mischief for USA. Predictably bad result for USA, but that's what happens when silly young idealists in the State Department are let to run loose.
Prior to 2014, Ukraine was merely being pressured to accept subordination to Russia, same as Canada and Mexico are subordinate to USA. After the thug-led street putsch of 2014, as punishment for their treasonous attempt to switch from team Russia to team USA, Ukraine was deprived of Crimea and put under pressure to give Donbas some autonomy and renounce treason towards team Russia. This was the situation when Zelensky entered office. By the time Zelensky leaves office, Ukraine will presumably have lost the entire southeast (no longer an option to keep these oblasts but give them some local autonomy regarding language policy), plus it will have suffered immense human and property destruction, plus there will still be an ongoing and costly stalemate conflict. Talk about a disastrous presidency (I'm referring to Zelensky, not Putin or Biden). Maybe the USA and EU will financially bail out what remains of Ukraine, though I wouldn't count on 100% bailout.
Dramafree11 obviously doesn't think highly of Ukraine, but then neither do I, given how stupidly they have behaved these past 30 years. Neither he nor I is praising Russia. But to give another metaphor, if you live next door to a mafia boss and he tells he doesn't want people parking on the street in front of his house, it's stupid argue that he has no right to impose such rules. Is asserting your right to park where you want really worth having your windshield smashed, your skull fractured by one of his goons, your child shot in the stomach, etc?
Some stupid commentators here couldn't understand my previous metaphor about robbery, and no doubt they'll repeat their stupidity in interpreting this metaphor. The very essence of stupidity is to misunderstand threats. Stupid people can't understand anything, so they have to be taught the hard way, by physical pain. You don't know why the mafia boss wants the street kept clear. Maybe he wants to throw his weight around and show everyone he's boss, maybe he has good security reasons related to threats from other mafia bosses. Regardless, his demand is easy to comply with. If every time a mafia boss makes a small demand, you start shrieking like Chicken Little that the sky is falling and it's Hitler and 1938 all over again and next step is genocide, etc, etc then you lack judgement. Which is equivalent to saying you are a stupid fool, and hopefully you will never be given a position of responsibility in the USA. Ukraine is a fine example of what happens when stupid fools are given power. I can personally survive the destruction of Ukraine, since I'm not heavily invested there, but USA is another story.
[QUOTE=AlanXL;2708300]Let's not forget how the war really started back in 2014. Of course no one is talking about these things. And we all know who is behind the coup.
[URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXslPCrN_9E[/URL][/QUOTE]Slava Ukrainia.
[URL]https://t.me/NewResistance/9723[/URL]
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2708309]Slava Ukrainia.
[URL]https://t.me/NewResistance/9723[/URL][/QUOTE]Pure Russian propaganda.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2708307]...After the thug-led street putsch of 2014, as punishment for their treasonous attempt to switch from team Russia to team USA, Ukraine was deprived of Crimea and put under pressure to give Donbas some autonomy and renounce treason towards team Russia...[/QUOTE]This is Russian can't. What is the treason? Treason the crime of betraying one's country (you know, like Benedict Arnold or Trump). Ukraine is a sovereign nation and its territorial integrity was guaranteed by international treaty (and the Russian Federation was a signator) in 1994.
Despite all their disinformation about nazis, oppression of ethnic Russians, whatever, Putin has recently flatly admitted that is war is about territorial aggrandizement and restoring the historic Russian empire.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2708307]I'm with my UKRAINIAN GIRLFRIEND now in Chisinau..............
I don't try to put ideas in her head. Just let her talk. She is ethnic Ukrainian, but not nationalist. MAINLY WORRIED ABOUT HER APARTMENT IN KYIV she bought last year.............
Meanwhile, Russia reconfigures to be immune to sanctions, thus free to cause all sorts of mischief for USA. Predictably bad result for USA, but that's what happens when silly young idealists in the State Department are let to run loose.
Prior to 2014, Ukraine was merely being pressured to accept subordination to Russia, same as Canada and Mexico are subordinate to USA.[/QUOTE]I highlighted a few words that I think might give us a bit more on your girlfriend's perspective. Nothing personal, but she might have more of a mercenary type personality. You travel the third world and find people can have no deep affinity for their own country. I'm not talking about cultural aspects like food and music. The young women have options with foreign men which further pulls them away. I don't know your girlfriend and I certainly don't know her motivations and future plans. However, I don't think my comments are a stretch.
While I don't think anyone should be cheering on this conflict, I am in the camp that Putin's Russia would keep fucking with its neighbors and it would never end. The danger is Putin stupidly underestimates Europe and his military crosses a NATO border. The Merkel appeasement is hopefully over. So there is much more here at stake than a fledgling democracy with corruption. (One by the way should look at the early histories of the democracies in Taiwan and South Korea to understand that not all democracies jump into a Jeffersonian state on day one.).
I believe this came up before. You oversell your opinion projected through your girlfriend. You are seriously comparing Ukraine's relationship to Russia with Canada and Mexico's relationship to the USA Not to mention Canada is a robust democracy, I know some Canadians that would laugh at your comparison. They are not trying to emulate or respond to the United States politically. I'm not sure the Mexicans are either.
If you said Canada and Mexico are economically dependent on the United States, of course they are having long borders with the largest economy in the world. The Ukrainians have essentially voted for closer ties with the European Union. Russia is an economic shit show overly dependent on the price of oil and gas. Why would the Ukrainians hitch their economic future to Russia?
As far as your silly mafia reference, what would one do if they had a known child molester living next door? Would you let your kids play outside unattended? Or would you try to have him arrested for approaching your children?
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2708170]As, I said I can care less how wins, find a solution.
Both sides are terrible, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt governments ever or an Evil Dictator, pick your poison. Both sides are extremely corrupt, and we should not let them drag the worlds economy down, with there stupid decisions.
Let's do an Audit of Ukraine President and Parliament, I doubt you guys will like what we find.[/QUOTE]Putin has blatantly boasted that Russia's ambitions extend far beyond Ukraine. That is the reason that Poland, and the Baltics, are responding the way they are. They rightly see this war as merely the first salvo in a longer-term existential battle.
People who view this conflict as though it only concerns Ukraine are not only ignoring the facts, but also LilliPutin's own words and threats.
Solution: Defeat Russia!
There, fixed it for you (again). BTW, every time you repeat the lie that you don't care who wins, I'll continue to point out your anti-Ukraine posting history AND the fact that every one of your "solutions" would only disadvantage the Ukrainian side. So, not only are you a liar, but you're also a coward because you try to hide behind a facade of even-handedness that is blatantly false and fraudulent. If you had even a scintilla of courage, you'd be up front about your (purely) anti-Ukraine position.
As for me, the reason I'm picking Ukraine, even with their record of corruption, is that there exists at least the possibility of change. Specifically, if they want to join the EU (and they do), they'll need to pass laws and implement significant reforms to meet anti-corruption benchmarks and standards. And EU candidate status can last for years, which would give such reforms a chance to take hold. Even if you don't like Zelensky, he's not going to be president forever. So, on one hand, Ukraine (even with a poor record in the past) at least has the HOPE and possibility for change. Additionally, nothing motivates change more than a traumatic event, like a near-death experience. Ukraine is currently undergoing such an experience on a national scale. Besides, the other choice is unacceptable, as anyone who picks Russia is choosing to side with a genocidal, psychopathic, megalomaniac.
What does the future hold? I have no crystal ball and, as I've stated often, making predictions is a fool's errand. But, based on history, and the way recent and current events have played out, Russia is by far the bigger problem to Europe and the world. And their naked aggression, and commission of war crimes against civilians, demands both resistance and defeat.
P.S. If Ukraine achieves EU candidate status, I have no doubt there will be a number of audits and examinations. Will there ever be such audits in Russia? Nope, not ever.
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2708336]Pure Russian propaganda.[/QUOTE]Of course, it is. Anything that doesn't fit the narrative you've ingested is Pure Propaganda. Baaa, baaaa.
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2708346]This is Ukraine is a sovereign nation and its territorial integrity was guaranteed by international treaty (and the Russian Federation was a signator) in 1994.[/QUOTE]R2P Serbia. But that was different.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2708362]Putin has blatantly boasted that Russia's ambitions extend far beyond Ukraine. That is the reason that Poland, and the Baltics, are responding the way they are. They rightly see this war as merely the first salvo in a longer-term existential battle.
People who view this conflict as though it only concerns Ukraine are not only ignoring the facts, but also LilliPutin's own words and threats.
Solution: Defeat Russia!
There, fixed it for you (again). BTW, every time you repeat the lie that you don't care who wins, I'll continue to point out your anti-Ukraine posting history AND the fact that every one of your "solutions" would only disadvantage the Ukrainian side. So, not only are you a liar, but you're also a coward because you try to hide behind a facade of even-handedness that is blatantly false and fraudulent. If you had even a scintilla of courage, you'd be up front about your (purely) anti-Ukraine position.
As for me, the reason I'm picking Ukraine, even with their record of corruption, is that there exists at least the possibility of change. Specifically, if they want to join the EU (and they do), they'll need to pass laws and implement significant reforms to meet anti-corruption benchmarks and standards. And EU candidate status can last for years, which would give such reforms a chance to take hold. Even if you don't like Zelensky, he's not going to be president forever. So, on one hand, Ukraine (even with a poor record in the past) at least has the HOPE and possibility for change. Additionally, nothing motivates change more than a traumatic event, like a near-death experience. Ukraine is currently undergoing such an experience on a national scale. Besides, the other choice is unacceptable, as anyone who picks Russia is choosing to side with a genocidal, psychopathic, megalomaniac.
What does the future hold? I have no crystal ball and, as I've stated often, making predictions is a fool's errand. But, based on history, and the way recent and current events have played out, Russia is by far the bigger problem to Europe and the world. And their naked aggression, and commission of war crimes against civilians, demands both resistance and defeat.
P.S. If Ukraine achieves EU candidate status, I have no doubt there will be a number of audits and examinations. Will there ever be such audits in Russia? Nope, not ever.[/QUOTE]You are total denial. Ukraine should not be allowed to join anything until they clean up there act. Produce Oil and you defeat Russia, very easy, but you guys do not want to do that.
Secondly, if Russia can not defeat Ukraine and a few Special Force Teams, they obviously can not fight there way out of a wet paper bag. They are not a threat, unlike are ridiculous Media claims and even worse the CIA. There military is terrible.
I do not care who wins, but somebody please win. When The war stops the killing stops. I have bad news for you, Russia is now winning, and the higher gas prices go the more they win. Again I have zero compassion for the Ukraine government. I do care about the incident lives being lost. You guys are playing right into Putin hand. Sorry, but that is what the Ukraine government does is lose, steal and lie. They were winning, but as usual they got greedy and are too stupid to realize it.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2708170]Both sides are terrible, Ukraine is one of the most corrupt governments ever or an Evil Dictator, pick your poison.[/QUOTE]See what I mean folks? Fallacy of the ad nauseam, or proof by repetition. You've equated Ukraine with Russia dozens of times, and been refuted dozens of times. However you ignore the refutations and keep repeating the same lie over and over, and will continue to do the same until hell freezes over. But here it is again, Ukraine has a Freedom House score, which considers corruption and other measures, of 61, about on par with Tucker Carlson's favorite country Hungary. This isn't great but isn't bad for the region and is worlds ahead of Russia at 15 and their buddies Belarus at 5. It's also ahead of a number of Euro countries. So, in the end you are dishonest and refuse to engage other than to repeat the same tired and long refuted sentiments over and over. The first time can be ascribed to ignorance. Persisting after corrections you make yourself a habitual liar which isn't surprising.
[URL]https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores[/URL]
[URL]https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_nauseam[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2707988]To the second part: I don't dispute the attention-seeking characterization of trolls. Rather I dispute the assumption that all of them will simply go away if ignored. It's my assertion that there's a subset of trolls, most notably the hate-filled variety, who will never go away. And that's because hate needs no outside driver or stimulus. Hate is self-perpetuating because it's motivated by twisted internal factors, and it sees the promulgation of hate as its own reward. It's like a horribly troubled child who tortures cats or pulls the wings off flies. Anyone who says it's just a phase, and will go away if ignored, is just wrong.[/QUOTE]There's a reward for the sadist in your example as they get to witness the distress of the animal or insect. Your typical online troll wants feedback. If no one is responding in any way there's none, plus they don't know if anyone is even reading their posts. They'll go someplace else where the fish are biting which isn't hard to do online. In any case your analogy is false, and by default, so is your conclusion. Wink.
[URL]https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-analogy-definition-and-examples/[/URL]
P.S. Regarding humiliation, and based on standard definitions it's tough to argue that you are humiliating a person if they are experiencing no such feelings. From Webster's:
"to reduce (someone) to a lower position in one's own eyes or others' eyes: to make (someone) ashamed or embarrassed: Mortify".
Take DramaFree11 as an example. He's been here and on a thread in another forum about four months equating Ukraine and Russia in the matter of evil. He calls on the West to stop helping the former while doing the Chicken Little, claiming world economies will implode and endless lives will be destroyed if we continue the course. He was around two years saying the same about Covid BTW in the matter of mitigation efforts and with no fulfillment. But where's the new material? Where the humiliation? I just summed up his whole argument in less than one minute, two sentences. There's been no change. Rebuttals are ignored. It's just a couple of talking points one could gather halfway watching Tucker Carlson one night. No "proof" is offered beyond anecdotes and speculations. No links. So what does he get for his two to three minutes of typing each day? A three paragraph, well thought out essay from you in return. That's a good return on his investment, and all with the same two sentence argument, and for about four months. LOL But I'm sure not going in circles with someone like that. It comes down to how you want to spend your time I suppose.
Yours was a good and well thought out post. The replies you elicited come from American and Israeli Nazis who destroyed Libya, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Yugoslavia etc so keep that in mind. It is hard to know which of them are the more despicable. Your girl friend is, of course, like most others. She wants to get by. Not so Israeli and American psychopaths. Abominable creatures.
More war crimes yesterday by Zelensky's Nazis shelling residential areas. Russian batteries seem to have the bead on them now so expect more tears from the Nazis and racists soon.
[QUOTE=Kozerog;2708307]I'm with my Ukrainian girlfriend now in Chisinau. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2708210]NATO office boy Jens Stoltenberg, at a meeting with Finland's office boys, has said NATO will trade Ukrainian territory for peace.[/QUOTE]Primary sources are always preferable, when available. It took all of 5 minutes to find the actual transcripts of NATO speeches and press conferences.
[URL]https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions.htm[/URL]
[URL]https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_196300.htm?selectedLocale=en[/URL]
"So first to the question of whether peace is possible. Yes, peace is possible. The question is what kind of peace? Because if Ukraine withdraw its forces and stop fighting, then Ukraine will cease to exist as an independent, sovereign nation in Europe. If President Putin stops fighting, then we'll have peace. So the dilemma is, of course, that peace is always possible. Surrender can provide peace. But as we have seen, the Ukrainians, they don't accept peace at any price. They are actually willing to pay a very high price for their independence. And again, Finland is a country that really knows the price for peace and also the price for independence and being a sovereign nation. And it's not for me to judge how high price the Ukrainians should be willing to pay. I mean, we pay a price because we provide support, we see the economic effects of the economic sanctions. But there is no doubt, as you said Sauli, that the highest price is paid by Ukrainians every day. And therefore it's for them to judge, not for me, what is the price they are willing to pay, for peace and for independence? So, that's, in a way, the moral dilemma. Peace is possible, but the question, how much are you willing to forsake to pay for getting that peace? The absolute best way to achieve peace in Ukraine is for President Putin to end this senseless war. We have to remember, every morning, every day, every hour during the day, there is one man, one nation that is responsible for that and that is President Putin. Then we have difficult dilemmas, difficult choices, but it is President Putin's brutal invasion of Ukraine that has created those dilemmas. And they can be solved by. . . From his side by ending the war. Then, one more thing on this, is that as President Zelensky has stated many times, this war will end at the negotiating table. The question is what kind of position will the Ukrainians have when they negotiate a solution? Our responsibility is to make that position as strong as possible. We know that there is a very close link between what you can achieve at the negotiating table and your position at the battlefield. So our military support to them is a way to strengthen their hand at the negotiating table when they, hopefully soon, will sit there and negotiate the peace agreement. So that was 'peace is possible' that's not the question anyway, the question is: what price are you willing to pay for peace? How much territory? How much independence? How much sovereignty? How much freedom? How much democracy are you willing to sacrifice for peace? And that's a very difficult moral dilemma. And it's for those who are paying the highest price to make that judgement. Our responsibility is to support them. Then, on escalation, I think it's extremely important that we remember there is a danger of escalation. Also, as you said this morning, a horizontal escalation, we always see a kind of vertical escalation more fighting, more suffering, heavier weapons in Ukraine but escalation beyond Ukraine. And NATO has been very aware of this risk since the beginning, actually before the invasion, because we have to remember that when the invasion came, we were very prepared. In one way, we have been prepared for this eventuality since 2014, with the biggest reinforcement of our collective defence since the Cold War, with the battlegroups in the eastern part of the Alliance, more defence spending, higher readiness, new command structure and all that. And then it was, actually, when we met, I remember we met, we discussed the possibility of an invasion of Ukraine. We had very precise intelligence on the nation. Russia absolutely denied. We had the meeting in the NATO-Russia Council in January, I think it was, where that was the last serious effort from our side to find a negotiated way out of this. Russia said, 'We have no plans whatsoever to invade. ' They actually sent out pictures, days beforehand, showing some battle tanks moving over this bridge (the strait between Azov and the Black Sea, saying that they were actually withdrawing their forces. Then they invaded. And then, that morning, we activated NATO's defence plans and deployed significant additional troops, because we were prepared, and now we have 40,000 NATO troops in the eastern part of the Alliance. Why did we do that? To prevent escalation. Because we have this increased presence to send an absolutely clear message to President Putin, to remove any room for miscalculation, misunderstanding in Moscow about our readiness to protect and defend every Ally. And as long as that's clear, there will be no attack. So our deterrence is to prevent escalation. I'm sad that we are in such a situation, because it would have been better for all of us if we could spend all that money we now are spending on deterrence, more weapons, more artillery, more missiles, more troops, more ships, more planes on education, health, infrastructure. But in a more dangerous world, we have to invest in security and that's exactly what we'll do to prevent escalation. So, I know I'm being a bit long, but we are. . . NATO is actually doing two things to prevent escalation. One is deterrence. As we do and we'll also make new decisions at the Madrid summit to strengthen further our posture: investing more, more troops, more readiness. But the only thing we do, is that we don't move into Ukraine. And that's not an easy decision. In my conversations, my talks, with the Ukrainian leaders, including President Zelensky, it's not easy to tell them that we are not going to impose a no-fly zone. They asked for a no-fly zone, we said no. They wanted us to and some Allies as well there has been some proposals that we should move with creating a humanitarian corridor. We're not doing that. There have also been discussions about NATO reinforcing a naval corridor to get food out. To not do that, it's not easy, because it has a cost for the Ukrainians. But we. . . But the reason why we don't move in with NATO troops in Ukraine is to prevent escalation. So we are always, since the beginning of this war, been very mindful about the need, the moral obligation, to support a country fighting for their freedom, for democracy, for their independence. But at the same time, preventing escalation by not being directly involved in the conflict".
People can read and decide for themselves as to whether or not Stoltenberg is throwing Ukraine to the wolves. The absolute WORST source in the world, I would argue, is a certified LilliPutin dick-licking troll.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2708487]You are total denial. Ukraine should not be allowed to join anything until they clean up there act. Produce Oil and you defeat Russia, very easy, but you guys do not want to do that.
Secondly, if Russia can not defeat Ukraine and a few Special Force Teams, they obviously can not fight there way out of a wet paper bag. They are not a threat, unlike are ridiculous Media claims and even worse the CIA. There military is terrible.
I do not care who wins, but somebody please win. When The war stops the killing stops. I have bad news for you, Russia is now winning, and the higher gas prices go the more they win. Again I have zero compassion for the Ukraine government. I do care about the incident lives being lost. You guys are playing right into Putin hand. Sorry, but that is what the Ukraine government does is lose, steal and lie. They were winning, but as usual they got greedy and are too stupid to realize it.[/QUOTE]It's looking very likely that Ukraine will be recommended for EU candidate status.
[URL]https://www.politico.eu/article/european-commission-urge-eu-candidate-status-for-ukraine/[/URL]
Since your 100% anti-Ukraine beliefs have already been thoroughly outed, I'm sure that this development will cause you plenty of indigestion. I guess that's just too fucking bad for you, right?
If you're looking for someone to blame, you'll find him in the Kremlin. LilliPutin is solely responsible for pushing Ukraine toward the West, and solely responsible for pushing Sweden and Finland toward NATO. Oh yes, and also responsible for significant changes in other countries like Moldova, the Baltics, Poland, etc. My personal hope is that Ukraine's candidacy to the EU comes with a laundry list of conditions and standards that need to be met. I think that will be the case, with the result potentially being a win-win for both the EU and Ukraine, and a HUGE loss for Russia.
As far as producing more non-Russian oil, I'm all in favor of that (and anything else with the potential to deny revenue to Russia). But that doesn't offer an effective near-term solution to Russian murderous war-crimes aggression. Which is why the better answer is to kill more Orcs and drive them back to Mordor (ASAP), because Russians will keep killing until they've been utterly snuffed out or chased back into their holes.
While you say you don't care who wins, I highly doubt that since you exclusively advocate for anti-Ukraine solutions. In stark contrast, I absolutely care who wins, as Russia is evil to the core and has revealed that fact to the world since February 24th. I'm not ignoring Ukraine's problems, or absolving them of past sins, but no country deserves to be swallowed whole by the Orc horde.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2708582]There's a reward for the sadist in your example as they get to witness the distress of the animal or insect. Your typical online troll wants feedback. If no one is responding in any way there's none, plus they don't know if anyone is even reading their posts. They'll go someplace else where the fish are biting which isn't hard to do online. In any case your analogy is false, and by default, so is your conclusion. Wink.
[URL]https://fallacyinlogic.com/false-analogy-definition-and-examples/[/URL]
P.S. Regarding humiliation, and based on standard definitions it's tough to argue that you are humiliating a person if they are experiencing no such feelings. From Webster's:
"to reduce (someone) to a lower position in one's own eyes or others' eyes: to make (someone) ashamed or embarrassed: Mortify".
Take DramaFree11 as an example. He's been here and on a thread in another forum about four months equating Ukraine and Russia in the matter of evil. He calls on the West to stop helping the former while doing the Chicken Little, claiming world economies will implode and endless lives will be destroyed if we continue the course. He was around two years saying the same about Covid BTW in the matter of mitigation efforts and with no fulfillment. But where's the new material? Where the humiliation? I just summed up his whole argument in less than one minute, two sentences. There's been no change. Rebuttals are ignored. It's just a couple of talking points one could gather halfway watching Tucker Carlson one night. No "proof" is offered beyond anecdotes and speculations. No links. So what does he get for his two to three minutes of typing each day? A three paragraph, well thought out essay from you in return. That's a good return on his investment, and all with the same two sentence argument, and for about four months. LOL But I'm sure not going in circles with someone like that. It comes down to how you want to spend your time I suppose.[/QUOTE]You're great at posting links to various logical fallacies, but you seem to have a blind spot when it comes to the holes in your own argument.
For example, you conclude my analogy is false because the sadist takes pleasure from witnessing the outcome of his own sadism, whereas the online troll only (emphasis mine) can take pleasure if their post is responded to (feedback).
The problem with that conclusion is that you have no objective evidence to back it up. It's purely your personal opinion, nothing more. Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong but, without evidence, it's simply a window-dressed pseudo-argument in search of a factual basis. I've never claimed that the way I've decided to deal with trolls is based on anything more than my own personal experience and opinion, and the analogy I offered (for illustrative purposes) doesn't change that fact.
Also, your reliance on a strict construction of the word "humiliation," while clearly ignoring the full context of what I wrote, is disingenuous. Did I not specifically write that, since trolls lack self-awareness, my aim in humiliating them is to make them a laughingstock to others? One of the essential rules of debate is to accurately characterize the argument of the opponent, which you failed to do.
Frankly, this back and forth about the best way to deal with trolls is a quintessential exemplar of a waste of time. At least it is for me, since I've already definitively stated that I have no intention of changing. I'm fine with the fact that you have your own opinion, but apparently the reverse isn't true and you seem to feel a need to "convert" me (newsflash: ain't happening).
Since you're so concerned about the effective use of time, is it really worth your time to dig up "Captain Obvious" references to logic websites when you could simply say ad hominem (etc.) and not insult the reader's intelligence by acting as though they need your assistance to define the term? Does that not strike you as a bit pretentious, or condescending? You might find it a better use of your time to research alternatives to monosyllabic subject lines. Just a suggestion, take it or leave it as you please. In the same spirit, I'm exercising my prerogative to "leave" your suggestion (wink).
It's remarkable how those who delight in pointing the finger at Ukraine fall silent when it comes to Russia. The old expression, "strain at a gnat while swallowing a camel," comes to mind.
"1/ Old rations, faulty vehicles, missing radios, under-strength units: corruption has been blamed for hollowing out Russia's military and undermining its war in Ukraine. It's worth examining this problem and seeing how it's affected the Russian armed forces. 1st 🧵 in a series".
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1531716422220632067.html[/URL]
"1/ What do jewelry, cash, antiques, watches, mansions and Jennifer Lopez have in common? They've all been sought after by corrupt Russian military officials. In this second 🧵 in a series, I'll look at high-level corruption among Russia's military elite".
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1536422857777025024.html[/URL]
I found this to be an interesting article. It analyzes the challenges ahead to bringing peace to the Ukraine. While I might prefer a more resounding Ukrainian victory, I concur with the authors that "winning small" is the most likely and practical resolution to the war.
[URL]https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-06-06/what-if-ukraine-wins[/URL]
Excerpt:
"But a full-scale Ukrainian military defeat of Russia, including the retaking of Crimea, verges on fantasy. It would be far too optimistic to base either Ukrainian or Western strategy on such an outcome. Pursuing it would also send the war into a new phase. Having poured billions of dollars into Crimea's development, a symbol of Russian renewal, Moscow would interpret a Ukrainian offensive in Crimea as an assault on Russian territory, something Moscow would try to prevent by all available means. The hypothesis that Russia's full-scale defeat would excise the cancer of imperialism from the Russian leadership and body politic rests on a clumsy analogy to Germany's unconditional surrender in World War II, and stems from a desire not just to end this war but to foreclose the possibility of Russia starting any future war in Europe. It is an intoxicating vision, but one unconnected to reality."
Russian propaganda proves to be some stupid shit:
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61757667.amp[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jojosun;.
Fine talk about reducing emissions, LOL "he is supposed to be committed to reducing emissions but when President Joe Biden produced a little natural gas of his own at the COP26 summit, it was audible enough to make the Duchess of Cornwall blush. ".
[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10172959/Camilla-stopped-talking-hearing-President-break-wind-chat-Cop26-summit.html[/URL]
The "Sleepy Joe" doze off [URL]https://news.sky.com/video/cop26-joe-biden-appears-to-fall-asleep-before-giving-a-speech-at-cop26-video-12457263[/URL].
Come 2024 ,he'll be Gone With The Wind. / QUOTE].
Biden's big gas crises is taking him to Saudi. Hope he doesn't do Another " long and loud and impossible to ignore" Fart, when he bends the Knee in front of MBS.
[URL]https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/bidens-big-gas-crisis-bet-beg-saudi-arabia[/URL]
Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709062]Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.[/QUOTE]Death? Is that really fair? The Americans only stuck their captives in Abu Gharabi, Guantanamo and who's knows where rendition sites without trials or recourse for the rest of their lives.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2709027]Russian propaganda proves to be some stupid shit:
[URL]https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-61757667.amp[/URL][/QUOTE]Spouting stupid BBC shit. If granny did not back track, your Nazi pals, egged on by the BBC, would put one in her ear.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709062]Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.[/QUOTE]Nothing heroic about fighting in an Illegal and Cowardly invasion of a sovereign state bombarding its cities and killing innocent civilians. Putin and his field commanders should be held responsible.
Nor was that Massive invasion of Iraq which Farty Joe supported and helped to mislead public opinion about it. "More than 4,500 US soldiers, and nearly as many US military contractors, lost their lives; tens of thousands were wounded, with hundreds of thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Estimates of Iraqi deaths run as high as 1 Million". [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war[/URL].
BTW, 19 Ukrainian Soldiers were also killed in Iraq, Sent there by Kuchma.
[URL]https://www.army.mil/article/15056/ukrainians_complete_mission_in_iraq[/URL]
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709062]Russia's heroic forces have captured two American mercenaries. The penalty for mercenaries is death. No Geneva Convention applies, just like the Americans used no Geneva Convention in their war crimes. I think we can all agree they are getting off far too lightly.[/QUOTE]All you do is constantly regurgitate the propaganda emanating from LilliPutin's bunghole.
The fact that foreigners are flocking to Ukraine to fight against the Orc Hordes is a CREDIT to Ukraine. These are people who left their comfortable lives for a noble purpose.
In point of fact, there are volunteer fighters from at least 52 countries fighting against Putin's fascists:
[URL]https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3426983-volunteer-fighters-from-52-countries-join-international-legion.html[/URL]
And, when it comes to Russia, they are so desperate for soldiers that they removed the upper age limit for service and are also recalling people who already retired from the military.
Here's one notable example where a 63 year old retired Orc general was shot down and killed.
[URL]https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10850289/Russia-loses-highest-ranking-pilot-Ukraine-former-Air-Force-Major-63-shot-down.html[/URL]
I guess he should have stayed in his dacha. Or maybe figured out a way to escape the sinking Russian ship, like so many other rats have already done.
Here are the two American mercenaries. They have no protection under the Geneva Convention and will most likely be sentenced to death by firing squad which is a shame as that is a military send off. Keep their victims in your prayers.
I'm a little worried the uptick in Covid will damage my vacation plans. That is none of their concern as they don't catch Covid in hell.
[URL]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/15/exclusive-first-two-us-fighters-captured-russian-forces-battle/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2709132]Nothing heroic about fighting in an Illegal and Cowardly invasion of a sovereign state bombarding its cities and killing innocent civilians. Putin and his field commanders should be held responsible.
Nor was that Massive invasion of Iraq which Farty Joe supported and helped to mislead public opinion about it. "More than 4,500 US soldiers, and nearly as many US military contractors, lost their lives; tens of thousands were wounded, with hundreds of thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Estimates of Iraqi deaths run as high as 1 Million". [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war[/URL].
BTW, 19 Ukrainian Soldiers were also killed in Iraq, Sent there by Kuchma.
[URL]https://www.army.mil/article/15056/ukrainians_complete_mission_in_iraq[/URL][/QUOTE]Putin&Biden got Blood on their hands, But of course Putin has the biggest share.
And another thing, who in Russia would be able to square up to Putin in public and give him a piece of his mind in a similar way this Brave American Veteran confronted Biden! Urlreplacement0}.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709472]Here are the two American mercenaries. They have no protection under the Geneva Convention and will most likely be sentenced to death by firing squad which is a shame as that is a military send off. Keep their victims in your prayers.
I'm a little worried the uptick in Covid will damage my vacation plans. That is none of their concern as they don't catch Covid in hell.
[URL]https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/06/15/exclusive-first-two-us-fighters-captured-russian-forces-battle/[/URL][/QUOTE][URL]https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/16/vladimir-putin-seen-gripping-table-so-hard-his-veins-start-to-bulge-16837200/[/URL]
He's probably a heartbeat (literally) away from some kind of debilitating medical event. In fact, one report I saw said he needed the immediate attention of his doctors at the end of a recent video meeting. And that's the probable explanation for the sudden cancellation of his scheduled "Direct Line" (live Q&A) broadcast.
[URL]https://metro.co.uk/2022/06/10/putin-advised-not-to-make-long-appearances-after-sharp-sickness-16802687/[/URL]
A lot of people have already died in this war, and unfortunately that's not close to ending. And it's an absolute fact that the blood of everyone killed is on Putin's hands, they are all victims of the evil megalomaniacal dictator. Which is why it would be the truest poetic justice if he becomes the highest profile casualty of the very war he started.
But there are two big questions about what happens when Putin croaks. 1) Will the elites manage a smooth transition or start stabbing each other in the back? 2) Will they put his corpse on display like Lenin, or hang him upside down like Mussolini?
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2708777]I found this to be an interesting article. It analyzes the challenges ahead to bringing peace to the Ukraine. While I might prefer a more resounding Ukrainian victory, I concur with the authors that "winning small" is the most likely and practical resolution to the war.
[URL]https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/ukraine/2022-06-06/what-if-ukraine-wins[/URL]
Excerpt:
"But a full-scale Ukrainian military defeat of Russia, including the retaking of Crimea, verges on fantasy. It would be far too optimistic to base either Ukrainian or Western strategy on such an outcome. Pursuing it would also send the war into a new phase. Having poured billions of dollars into Crimea's development, a symbol of Russian renewal, Moscow would interpret a Ukrainian offensive in Crimea as an assault on Russian territory, something Moscow would try to prevent by all available means.[/QUOTE]I have no problem with the article, except it would be nice to see authors include some kind of admission that there are possible outcomes they haven't thought of, or ones they've thought about but don't have a clue as to how things could turn out.
For example, what if Putin dies, or is incapacitated, or is deposed? From my reading of the article, the post-war scenarios assume that Putin's policies will continue along the same trajectory. But, if Russia suffers a humiliating defeat (as defined by Russia's own war-hawks), it's a coin-flip as to whether he stays in power. And even a peaceful transfer of power isn't a guarantee of continuity. If Russia's economy is in bad shape, the new leader could decide to blame everything on Putin.
And then there's the matter of some of their conclusions about battlefield outcomes, most notably regarding Crimea. I certainly don't have a crystal ball but I would certainly advise against making categorical statements. Right now, for example, Ukraine is mounting a counter-offensive in the South (Kherson and Nova Kakhovka areas). One possible result is that they could regain control over the primary source of water for all of Crimea. That may not be the same as retaking the entire peninsula, but it's nothing to sneeze at and would have a dramatic effect on the calculus of any subsequent negotiation.
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1536750514222022657.html[/URL]
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1536833540217876483.html[/URL]
There are at least some military observers saying that one objective of the battle around Severodonetsk is to keep Russian forces from reinforcing the South. Maybe Ukraine will push to control the water source, or maybe they'll use it primarily to force Russia to defend on yet another front. I have no idea, but I'm closely watching developments in the Kherson area.
So my only real point is that war, and especially this one, is full of "unknown unknowns," which I wish more pundits and analysts would acknowledge when writing their articles.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709098]Spouting stupid BBC shit. If granny did not back track, your Nazi pals, egged on by the BBC, would put one in her ear.[/QUOTE]But she did backtrack and obviously didn't know what she was doing hahaha! The Ruskies are so desperate to look good in this that they would take advantage of an old babushka. And sounds like another weakly disguised "fake news" allegation from you.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2709132] Nor was that Massive invasion of Iraq which Farty Joe supported and helped to mislead public opinion about it. "More than 4,500 US soldiers, and nearly as many US military contractors, lost their lives; tens of thousands were wounded, with hundreds of thousands more suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder. Estimates of Iraqi deaths run as high as 1 Million". [URL]https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/feb/17/joe-biden-role-iraq-war[/URL].
BTW, 19 Ukrainian Soldiers were also killed in Iraq, Sent there by Kuchma.
[URL]https://www.army.mil/article/15056/ukrainians_complete_mission_in_iraq[/URL][/QUOTE]No mention of all the Iraqis murdered, tortured and raped by the Americans, who said murdering 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it. To be an American today is like being a German Nazi in 1944.
As I've posted before, it's better to get information from as close to an original source as you can. This site, while it's certainly pro-Ukraine, doesn't feature analysis or commentary. Rather it simply translates interesting items from Russian or Ukrainian into English. As with all sources, you need to use your own judgment and discernment about the veracity and value of any individual item.
[URL]https://wartranslated.com[/URL]
Here are two that recently got my attention:
[URL]https://wartranslated.com/igor-girking-predicts-a-battle-for-the-initiative-10-june-2022/[/URL]
Girkin's (see below) assessment of the battle for Southern Ukraine.
[URL]https://wartranslated.com/lpr-blogger-says-ukrainian-16-june-attack-on-krasnyi-luch-stockpiles-will-halt-russian-offensive/[/URL]
An LPR blogger's assessment of the consequences of a recent Ukrainian strike on a Russian supply depot.
As you browse the site, you'll see quite a few entries that translate comments by Igor Girkin. He's an FSB Colonel (reserves, but still connected) who often gives scathing critiques of Russian military leadership and performance. He's pro-Russia, but he advocates for doing even more, such as full mobilization. So it's interesting to read his critiques and assessments. The site's author is of the opinion that Girkin is allowed to speak out, as long as he doesn't directly criticize Putin, as a way of giving voice to extreme war-hawk views. You can read and make up your own mind.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2709518]Putin&Biden got Blood on their hands, But of course Putin has the biggest share.
And another thing, who in Russia would be able to square up to Putin in public and give him a piece of his mind in a similar way this Brave American Veteran confronted Biden! Urlreplacement0}.[/QUOTE]Here's the Link. [URL]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ojkCKPtcJ54[/URL].
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2709539]I have no problem with the article, except it would be nice to see authors include some kind of admission that there are possible outcomes they haven't thought of, or ones they've thought about but don't have a clue as to how things could turn out.
For example, what if Putin dies, or is incapacitated, or is deposed? From my reading of the article, the post-war scenarios assume that Putin's policies will continue along the same trajectory. But, if Russia suffers a humiliating defeat (as defined by Russia's own war-hawks), it's a coin-flip as to whether he stays in power. And even a peaceful transfer of power isn't a guarantee of continuity. If Russia's economy is in bad shape, the new leader could decide to blame everything on Putin.
......................................
So my only real point is that war, and especially this one, is full of "unknown unknowns," which I wish more pundits and analysts would acknowledge when writing their articles.[/QUOTE]I didn't really take it as that. I think the authors were trying to raise the real possibility that the war might not resolve a lot. I also have thought about how wars achieve complete resolution (many don't) and thought the authors' statement below was insightful.
"The hypothesis that Russia's full-scale defeat would excise the cancer of imperialism from the Russian leadership and body politic rests on a clumsy analogy to Germany's unconditional surrender in World War II, and stems from a desire not just to end this war but to foreclose the possibility of Russia starting any future war in Europe. It is an intoxicating vision, but one unconnected to reality."
I'm sure the authors considered Putin dying, incapacitated or being deposed. It would seem to me to be a risky proposition to continue fighting and forgoing negotiations on this hope alone. Putin's departure by one means or another could possibly bring an ideal conclusion of the war, but it is also predicated on other things happening after his removal.
As far as "Russia suffers a humiliating defeat", I don't see that happening on the battlefield. Without NATO support for the Ukraine attacking Russian targets, I think a grinding stalemate inside the Ukraine is far more likely. So in my opinion, the humiliating Russian defeat only comes about with regime change and capitulation. This gets back to my point do you continue fighting and forgoing negotiations on the premise that Putin is close to being removed one way or another.
In the likely responses to follow, I would not impose too much argumentative meaning to my raising the issue of negotiations. One in disagreement can chastise the idea of negotiations, but there are many matters that need to be resolved to end the conflict. Those who think that the Ukrainians will drive the Russians out of the Ukraine indefinitely including Crimea and possibly incite a regime change in Russia clearly would find much to disagree with my post.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709614]No mention of all the Iraqis murdered, tortured and raped by the Americans, who said murdering 500,000 Iraqi children was worth it. To be an American today is like being a German Nazi in 1944.[/QUOTE]To be one today is more like being an Isreali in 2022.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2709797]To be one today is more like being an Isreali in 2022.[/QUOTE]That is really low. Israelis, most of whom have Ukrainian roots, words cannot describe. I was watching a video of the captured US bio weapons guy (the whitey caught alongside the Viet). Seemed in good spirits. Hope he rats out Hunter Biden.
Just watching those fkers now around the Damascus gate. Though some Americans may have redeeming features (Lot and salt), they haven one. Day after day.
And the Ukrainian Parliament, who will take over? Who will do the snapchat videos when this dead man walking gets his desserts? If Russia was the USA, Zelensky would have been fried months ago. Is Russia just keeping this fool on ice? Would it help if the Nazis just took front stage in Kiev?
Of the USMC (America's equivalent of the Waffen SS) becomes the third American mercenary to be captured by Russian peace keepers in Ukraine. Capt. Kurpasi, from Wilmington, North Carolina, should know that the Geneva Convention does not apply to mercenaries. He is fair game.
No more killing Iraqi kids or Ukrainian Russian speakers for him [URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/16/politics/state-department-american-missing-ukraine/index.html[/URL].
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2709788]I didn't really take it as that. I think the authors were trying to raise the real possibility that the war might not resolve a lot. I also have thought about how wars achieve complete resolution (many don't) and thought the authors' statement below was insightful.
"The hypothesis that Russia's full-scale defeat would excise the cancer of imperialism from the Russian leadership and body politic rests on a clumsy analogy to Germany's unconditional surrender in World War II, and stems from a desire not just to end this war but to foreclose the possibility of Russia starting any future war in Europe. It is an intoxicating vision, but one unconnected to reality."
I'm sure the authors considered Putin dying, incapacitated or being deposed. It would seem to me to be a risky proposition to continue fighting and forgoing negotiations on this hope alone. Putin's departure by one means or another could possibly bring an ideal conclusion of the war, but it is also predicated on other things happening after his removal.
As far as "Russia suffers a humiliating defeat", I don't see that happening on the battlefield. Without NATO support for the Ukraine attacking Russian targets, I think a grinding stalemate inside the Ukraine is far more likely. So in my opinion, the humiliating Russian defeat only comes about with regime change and capitulation. This gets back to my point do you continue fighting and forgoing negotiations on the premise that Putin is close to being removed one way or another.
In the likely responses to follow, I would not impose too much argumentative meaning to my raising the issue of negotiations. One in disagreement can chastise the idea of negotiations, but there are many matters that need to be resolved to end the conflict. Those who think that the Ukrainians will drive the Russians out of the Ukraine indefinitely including Crimea and possibly incite a regime change in Russia clearly would find much to disagree with my post.[/QUOTE]Too many articles verge on the brink of hubris, in that they cherry-pick the variables they claim are significant, while side-stepping or ignoring those that are inconvenient or non-supportive of their thesis.
I'm much more receptive to authors who focus on what's actually happening than I am to those who come up with some kind of construct about how, in their opinion, things could play out. When I read the latter kind of article, I usually spot some assumption they're making which, if things happen differently, substantially undercuts their thesis. And, at that point, I lose interest because they continue writing in a confident voice when they should (IMO) be writing with more humility and admitting how much they don't know, and which assumptions might not hold.
At this point, I'm pretty much done with so-called experts (see my post in the Kyiv main thread) because so many have been so profoundly wrong (and so few admit that fact). What I look for are accurate observations about what's happening right now, as I think such observations hold more promise for extrapolating towards the future. So, when I read an article that doesn't seem to fully embrace or understand what's happening on the battlefield at this very moment, I'm frankly not that interested. I'm happy to trade a pound of "experts" for an ounce of accurate observers.
Gerasimov's trip to the front lines was a disaster, Shoigu (who isn't a real General) is now a hollow figurehead, and the newest revelation is that Dvornikov is an incompetent drunk!
[URL]https://odessa-journal.com/bellingcat-investigator-why-putin-doesnt-trust-general-dvornikov/[/URL]
No wonder the Orc-Generals are dropping like fetid flies. The vaunted Russian military machine turns out to be held together with chewing gum and baling wire. Except that some corrupt General sold the wire, replaced it with twine, and then swapped the chewing gum for gooey piles of shit! No wonder the wheels are falling off. Way to go, Vlad!
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709851]That is really low. Israelis, most of whom have Ukrainian roots, words cannot describe. I
[/QUOTE]Your bashing seems to be all over the place!!
The man from Odessa, Jabotinsky with his brand of Zionism, based on claiming all of the land including Jordan, is not really majority opinion in Israel. More support for it for reasons of their own, is to be found among White American Evangelicals.
[URL]https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_land_without_a_people_for_a_people_without_a_land[/URL]#text=%22%20 A%20 land%20 without%20 a%20 people%20 for%20 a,historicity%20 and%20 significance%20 are%20 a%20 matter%20 of%20 contention.
Jewish Ukrainians who fled Putin's war in their thousands found homes in Germany. "Many Jewish Ukrainian refugees no one know how many, but it is certainly thousands. Are choosing to come to Germany. Why? They are looking for quiet and Israel is seen as being dangerous. In addition, Germany has committed significant resources to help: [URL]https://m.jpost.com/opinion/article-706446[/URL].
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2710049]Too many articles verge on the brink of hubris, in that they cherry-pick the variables they claim are significant, while side-stepping or ignoring those that are inconvenient or non-supportive of their thesis.
I'm much more receptive to authors who focus on what's actually happening than I am to those who come up with some kind of construct about how, in their opinion, things could play out. When I read the latter kind of article, I usually spot some assumption they're making which, if things happen differently, substantially undercuts their thesis. And, at that point, I lose interest because they continue writing in a confident voice when they should (IMO) be writing with more humility and admitting how much they don't know, and which assumptions might not hold.
At this point, I'm pretty much done with so-called experts (see my post in the Kyiv main thread) because so many have been so profoundly wrong (and so few admit that fact). What I look for are accurate observations about what's happening right now, as I think such observations hold more promise for extrapolating towards the future. So, when I read an article that doesn't seem to fully embrace or understand what's happening on the battlefield at this very moment, I'm frankly not that interested. I'm happy to trade a pound of "experts" for an ounce of accurate observers.[/QUOTE]Nothing personal, but I think you are generally too optimistic that the war's outcome will provide a great victory for the Ukraine. I think there is enough uncertainty in this war and any war for that matter to make all predictions specious.
I think many have painted a picture the war is an existential battle for the Ukraine that can be resolved with great satisfaction and achievement. It has also been said Putin himself could very well be in an existential fight over the Ukraine. That sounds like the recipe for a long, grinding war.
What's the best outcome Ukraine "wins small" and the war ends this year or they fight a five year conflict to achieve something possibly more or possibly not? It's not an easy question to answer in my opinion.
Having said that, yes it would be great if Putin felt his world closing in, walks into his office, shuts the door and ingests a cyanide pill.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2710067]Your bashing seems to be all over the place!![/QUOTE]PM is kitchen-sinking (as in everything but the kitchen sink). Impassioned and often illogical partisans bombard forums with any argument they can muster whether it remotely fits the circumstances or not. Sometimes they reveal their motives. Sometimes they do not. They have not really processed the concept of more is not necessarily better. In many instances, their position is untenable. The only thing left is to throw everything and anything out there to defend their point of view.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2709980]And the Ukrainian Parliament, who will take over? Who will do the snapchat videos when this dead man walking gets his desserts? If Russia was the USA, Zelensky would have been fried months ago. Is Russia just keeping this fool on ice? Would it help if the Nazis just took front stage in Kiev?[/QUOTE]It's my guess that, if you talk to many Russians off the record, you'd likely get an earful of how humiliating it is that the "powerful Russian military" has been stymied, and forced back from Kyiv. And right along with that is the fact that Zelensky is STILL in power and going strong. What happened to the "denazification" goal? It's utterly failed and Putin can't credibly claim otherwise as long as Kyiv's govt continues.
To add insult to injury, Zelensky is welcoming significant heads of state to Kyiv (France, Germany, Italy, UK, Poland, Romania, etc.) while the only people who visit Russia are Putin-puppets like Lukashenko, or fellow terrorists-in-arms Taliban mullahs.
And even the President of Kazakhstan, with Putin present, called out Russian propaganda and spit directly in the eye of the Kremlin. I'll make a separate post about that, but Putin must be seething at the blatant disrespect shown at his own conference.
But here's the real question: Who takes over when Putin's uncontrollable tremors, and other serious health conditions, can no longer be covered for? With the Russian military being stretched thin, will Lukashenko make a play? Isn't it interesting that Belarus has avoided putting their military at risk in Ukraine? Even a little bit of research will show that Lukashenko is a highly capable schemer, and that his clown act is only for show.
So, when Putin (naturally or otherwise) kicks the bucket, things could get very interesting.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2710029]Of the USMC (America's equivalent of the Waffen SS) becomes the third American mercenary to be captured by Russian peace keepers in Ukraine. Capt. Kurpasi, from Wilmington, North Carolina, should know that the Geneva Convention does not apply to mercenaries. He is fair game.
No more killing Iraqi kids or Ukrainian Russian speakers for him [URL]https://edition.cnn.com/2022/06/16/politics/state-department-american-missing-ukraine/index.html[/URL].[/QUOTE][URL]https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jun/14/russians-fighting-for-ukraine[/URL]
"I made compromises with myself for a long time. But on the 24 February (the day Russia launched its invasion), any talk of compromise became impossible," he said. "I could not be part of this crime".
"Artyom (not his real name), another member of the unit, said he joined "because it was the only chance to get rid of this regime" and had been engaged in opposition politics in Russia before leaving the country in 2020. He said he moved to Ukraine shortly before the war, sensing an imminent Russian attack. "I love my motherland," he said. "I wish it didn't have to come to this, but we have to end this system. I hope I can return home after the war".
These are Russians with a soul and conscience, noble Russians resisting the evil dictator. Each orc they kill helps to prevent another Bucha, another Irpin, another Mariupol massacre, another kidnapped child being sent off to Russia.
May their aim be true and their weapons swift to mete out justice to the criminal invaders.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2710106]Nothing personal, but I think you are generally too optimistic that the war's outcome will provide a great victory for the Ukraine. I think there is enough uncertainty in this war and any war for that matter to make all predictions specious.
I think many have painted a picture the war is an existential battle for the Ukraine that can be resolved with great satisfaction and achievement. It has also been said Putin himself could very well be in an existential fight over the Ukraine. That sounds like the recipe for a long, grinding war.
What's the best outcome Ukraine "wins small" and the war ends this year or they fight a five year conflict to achieve something possibly more or possibly not? It's not an easy question to answer in my opinion.
Having said that, yes it would be great if Putin felt his world closing in, walks into his office, shuts the door and ingests a cyanide pill.[/QUOTE]While I'm absolutely pro-Ukraine in sentiment, I've done my best to focus on what's actually happening, not on what "should" happen or even what I want to happen. If you can indicate the post, or posts, of mine in which I cross the line into prediction territory, please share.
It seems to me that I'm the loudest voice in this forum shouting that predictions are a fool's errand, as this war is unique in many aspects and there are too many variables, known and unknown. In fact, that's the very criticism I level against your article, is it not?
My personal feelings aside, any optimism I've expressed is generally based on optimistic developments, such as arms commitments and other support measures for Ukraine, or the recent granting of EU candidate status. Any such developments that help Ukraine sustain their war effort are positive things, and I'm not shy about pointing them out.
If, however, support for Ukraine started to fade, or other developments with long-term negative implications occurred, I would discuss those honestly. To this point I would assert that the weight of the evidence leans in a positive direction for Ukraine. And, as I've also posted numerous times, I do my best to focus on the tides, rather than waves or ripples.
That's not to say I have any clue as to how things will turn out. If I discuss the possibility of a humiliating Russia defeat, I do so as only one of several scenarios. The reason that particular scenario is often discussed is primarily because Putin foolishly set the bar too high. If he had gone directly for the limited goal of Luhansk and Donetsk, that would have been more reasonably achievable. But, by going for Kyiv itself, and "denazifying" all of Ukraine, he's made a problem for himself (with his own people) if he can't deliver. That's why I've posited that there are no real-world winnable scenarios for Russia, because:
1. If Russia conquers all of Ukraine, it will be faced with the prospect of trying to subdue and hold a country that hates it deeply. Europe, the US, and most of rest of the world would likely continue the same, or increased, sanctions regime, which is a recipe for continued isolation and tension.
2. If Russia conquers some of Ukraine (Luhansk, Donetsk, Odessa, etc.), then it becomes a kind of subset of Scenario #1, with the exception that the part of Ukraine not conquered would be actively and strenuously resisting Russia.
3. Russia conquers no significant new territory in Ukraine. So, whether the boundaries are exactly the same as before Feb 24th, or substantially so, it's clear to the non-propagandized world that the invasion has failed. And, within Russia, the potential for dissatisfaction with Putin would rise significantly. This, for all intents and purposes would be the "humiliating defeat" scenario.
4. A continuation of the current war-of-attrition, with give and take on both sides. If that were to happen, neither side could claim victory and it would become (even more so than now) a battle of will and resources.
But please note that discussing these scenarios, and examining factors that might make them more (or less) likely, isn't the same as predicting which one will actually happen. What I care most about are the facts on the ground. And, depending on those facts, it may be possible to extrapolate trends that point in one direction or another. As with all things, however, tomorrow's set of facts can change. Which is why I value accurate and knowledgeable observers more than I do analysts and pundits.
P.S. If you have an outcome that isn't one of the four listed above, or a subset of them, I'd love to hear it.
The author of this thread makes a persuasive (IMO) case that, while Severodonetsk (Donbas) is getting most of the attention, the battle for the Kherson region in the South is more strategically important. It's a short and easy read, with some informative maps.
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538237864202452995.html[/URL]
[URL]https://medium.com/@grantpiperwriting/was-putin-right-all-along-b58872a19bef[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2710193] quack quack.[/QUOTE]The first post is a question on S Korea, the 2nd is some useless be s on England and the rest are praising Nazis who are getting their asses handed to them in Ukraine.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2710106]Nothing personal, but I think you are generally too optimistic that the war's outcome will provide a great victory for the Ukraine. I think there is enough uncertainty in this war and any war for that matter to make all predictions specious.
I think many have painted a picture the war is an existential battle for the Ukraine that can be resolved with great satisfaction and achievement. It has also been said Putin himself could very well be in an existential fight over the Ukraine. That sounds like the recipe for a long, grinding war.
What's the best outcome Ukraine "wins small" and the war ends this year or they fight a five year conflict to achieve something possibly more or possibly not? It's not an easy question to answer in my opinion.
Having said that, yes it would be great if Putin felt his world closing in, walks into his office, shuts the door and ingests a cyanide pill.[/QUOTE]I agree that it's going to be "a long, grinding war" but you seem to presume that Ukraine somehow has a power to stop it. It doesn't.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2710218] It's a short and easy read, with some informative maps.
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538237864202452995.html[/URL][/QUOTE]The author dropped one very important issue in the article: The huge bridges in Kherson crossing the Dnjepr. Having lived in this area myself for a few years, I am still wondering, why the bridges have not been blown up by the UA-army, to block further advances of the Russian in the direction of Odessa, via Nikolaev. Some secret deal with the Russians: We do not blow the bridges in Kherson, you do not blow the bridges in Kiev?
Russian warships have destroyed a Ukrainian command center with Kalibr cruise missiles, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Sunday.
"More than 50 generals and officers of the Ukrainian Armed Forces were killed," the statement said. According to the ministry, the strike took place near the village of Shirokaya Dacha in Dnepropetrovsk Region, Ukraine. The missiles hit the compound where commanders of several Ukrainian units had gathered for a meeting, the ministry said.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710231][URL]https://medium.com/@grantpiperwriting/was-putin-right-all-along-b58872a19bef[/URL][/QUOTE]Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710231][URL]https://medium.com/@grantpiperwriting/was-putin-right-all-along-b58872a19bef[/URL][/QUOTE]I don't about others but I generally ignore links that don't at least come with a brief explanation of what it leads to, or some kind of indication that it's worth checking out.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2710280]I live (and love) to suck LilliPutin's raw dick. And no, I'm not worried about monkeypox.[/QUOTE]Unlike some, I don't need a fuckboard to find foreign pussy. I've lived abroad for enough years that I can manage just fine. My two South Korea posts concerned recommended hotels. And my only other post was to suggest a website to a member who posted a question.
How hilarious it is that I've SO thoroughly kicked your ass, and repeatedly wiped the floor with it, that you're pissing yourself in a pathetic attempt to find something with which to attack me. Nothing better illustrates what a low-class scumbucket (or is that cumbucket?) you are.
Oh, and about the remaining 1% of your posts, they were deleted by the forum admins for being pointless, argumentative, wastes of bandwidth.
P.S. On the US forums I have around 1,700 posts. My reasons for posting about Kyiv and Ukraine are self-evident to anyone who doesn't have his head up his ass.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2710313]The author dropped one very important issue in the article: The huge bridges in Kherson crossing the Dnjepr. Having lived in this area myself for a few years, I am still wondering, why the bridges have not been blown up by the UA-army, to block further advances of the Russian in the direction of Odessa, via Nikolaev. Some secret deal with the Russians: We do not blow the bridges in Kherson, you do not blow the bridges in Kiev?[/QUOTE]Obviously you've lived there so you have local knowledge of the bridges. But isn't one river crossing over the Kakhovka Dam? That one, I'd guess, would not be targeted for destruction. As for the others, it might be as simple as Ukraine's military deciding that there's more strategic value leaving them intact. That's especially true if they (UAF) believe they can retake territory in and around Kherson. If Russia is pushed back I wouldn't be surprised if they blew up some bridges to cover their retreat.
As far as the bridges around Kyiv are concerned, Russia hasn't achieved air dominance or even air superiority during this war, and they're reportedly running low on precision-guided munitions. Ukraine has shot down quite a few missiles, although obviously not all. But my point is that it's unclear to what extent Russia can project meaningful force in the area of Kyiv.
Also, IIRC, the troops in the Kherson area aren't regular Russian army, but made up of forces from the separatist areas. That means they're less well-equipped and probably better suited to defend positions rather than to advance and take territory. If you remember, it wasn't long ago that there were concerns about an amphibious landing and coordinated attack on Odessa. That hasn't materialized and Russian efforts in the South have essentially stalled. Now that Ukraine's forces appear to be counterattacking, the next few weeks could mark a significant phase in the war.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2710366]I'm a Russian schmegegge-troll and I gladly swallow Russian Defense Ministry propaganda and spit it back out in this forum. If Russia says it, who cares if it's true?[/QUOTE]Meanwhile, the REAL Nazis, the ones waging genocide on behalf of Russia, are being identified and tracked.
[URL]https://russian-torturers.com/en[/URL]
The trials of these war criminals can't come soon enough.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710231][URL]https://medium.com/@grantpiperwriting/was-putin-right-all-along-b58872a19bef[/URL][/QUOTE]Great article. Maybe Putin is not as dumb as everyone thought. Time is on Russia side and with high gas prices and inflation way up, Russia is definitely starting to win. If gas goes up much more and Ukraine is unwilling to negotiate, support will dry up fast for Ukraine.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2710463]Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.[/QUOTE]Notice that I specifically didn't say that Ukraine is winning. That's because, unlike you and your schmegegge-clone, I actually follow what's happening on the battlefield. And, when it comes to facts vs opinion, facts will win every time.
Russia hasn't lost but neither have they won. And, when you're fighting for survival, it's a win for Ukraine each day they keep the invaders at bay.
[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-leaving-russia-millionaires-invasion-ukraine-war-2022-6[/URL]
Wow! If everything is going great in Russia, why are so many affluent individuals intent on leaving? Ukraine has had its territory invaded, and its cities bombed, so it's understandable that people will want to avoid being in a war zone. But Russia? It hasn't been invaded and these millionaires, most of whom probably live in Moscow or St. Petersburg, are in no danger.
Again, that brings up the fascinating question about why so many are planning on leaving, are currently in the process of leaving, or have already left. Watching what people do, rather than listening to what they say, is useful in evaluating what's really going on.
A millionaire in Russia didn't get that way without being savvy, having connections, and knowing how to navigate and game the system. And, as long as they stay on good terms with Putin's power brokers, their wealth should insulate them from most inconveniences and hardships. Why would someone in that elite tranche of society decide to bail? One reason is arguably that they view their future prospects OUTSIDE of Russia as better than inside. Their money allows them to have many choices, and they've chosen to leave. Rats deserting a sinking ship, IMO, as I've posted several times before.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2710463]Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.[/QUOTE]Yeah, the concept that Putin was right all along (which is what the article was about) looks more and more clear. I do not think the Western Press has expressed the Russian POV very well, and I am not even sure this article got into it. All you hear in the Western Press is Putin is a mad man and they highlight whenever a Russian mentions being anti-war.
My understanding is Putin felt surrounded, and that was what the Atlantic mentioned victory in Ukraine would be, a surrounded Russia. I was told that Russia had only 2 of the 9 traditional choke points against an invasion and now are in control of 5 of the 9. In addition ethnic Russians were being tortured and killed in Donbas and water was being cut off to Crimea. Add in Ukraine being in the EU and Nato, the coup of 2014, and Russiagate where the Dems demonized Putin unfairly and Ukrainegate which showed the Dems had a stranglehold in Ukraine, and far from Putin being a mad man, I can see why he felt the need for a pre-emptive strike. He is a bully but I do not see him as irrational.
Putin is a guy who took over for Yeltsin who was a drunk and ruled at a time Russians were starving. Say you what you want about him ethically, but he gets the trains to run on time almost as well as any Russian leader can. Yes, it is not a Democracy, but Russians have historically preferred a strong armed leader versus an elected one. This again is something most Westerners do not get.
The hysteria has died down. No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. The return on the $40 billion the USA has sent to Ukraine may as well have been lit on fire for all the good it will do, and our nation is suffering with higher oil and gas prices and higher food prices.
Here are two pieces which show the diametrically opposed positions: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/heat-scorched-odessa-texas-has-been-without-water-all-week-due-ageing-infrastructure[/URL].
As residents are hopeful that the crisis finally resolves Saturday, it's worth noting the irony in billions of taxpayer dollars currently being sent to places like Odessa, Ukraine. Even as Americans in places like Odessa, Texas can't even get drinkable water due to "ageing infrastructure".
[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-must-do-more-ukraine-even-if-costs-food-fuel-are-high-western-populations-nato[/URL]
Top officials in the West warning their populations against "Ukraine fatigue", saying that 'sacrifices' must be made for the long-term despite the 'high costs' in blood and treasure of continuing to ramp up support for Ukraine. This time it's NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg making unusually blunt statements, addressing the common masses.
"We must prepare for the fact that it could take years. We must not let up in supporting Ukraine," he began by saying in an interview published Sunday by Germany's Bild am Sonntag newspaper. He stressed this should be the case "even if the costs are high, not only for military support, also because of rising energy and food prices. ".
Why do we have to help Ukraine? The whole notion that Russia was going to March onto the English Channel made no sense to me. So the French, UK, and USA are not going to nuke Russia if that happens? Since when?
The question I have for this NATO General is we know the defense industry gets a return on investing in war but do we the American people get such a return? That answer is not maybe but probably not and in that case, we should not keep committing. If a NATO country is invaded, that is another story. If you look at this economically, Putin was right. The benefit of defending Ukraine was not worth the cost.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2710463]Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.[/QUOTE]Throughout their turbulent history, Russians have taken as much shit as the next guy. They've lost enough battles and wars. Portraying Russia as a perennial winner is ridiculous and ludicrous, and Russian people are well familiar with defeat and humiliation, which is what they are going to experience this time around, as well.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2710280]The first post is a question on S Korea, the 2nd is some useless be s on England and the rest are praising Nazis who are getting their asses handed to them in Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Basically delusional jibber jabber.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2710631]Throughout their turbulent history, Russians have taken as much shit as the next guy. They've lost enough battles and wars. Portraying Russia as a perennial winner is ridiculous and ludicrous, and Russian people are well familiar with defeat and humiliation, which is what they are going to experience this time around.[/QUOTE]The Russian people have taken plenty of shit over their entire history, including probably most of it from their own leaders!
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2710541]Great article. Maybe Russia is definitely starting to win.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] If gas goes up much more and Ukraine is unwilling to negotiate, support will dry up fast for Ukraine.[/QUOTE]I'm sure regulars in this forum are familiar with your consistent anti-Ukraine, pro-Russia, posting history. But, since you're too cowardly to be honest about it, and continually try to hide it, I'm more than happy to point it out.
Your argument that time is on Russia's side is based solely on your cherry-picked view of the situation, in which you see everything leaning toward Russia and leaning against Ukraine. There are plenty of arguments to be made from the pro-Ukraine point of view. But they're wasted on you since you've already made up your mind.
Again, anyone who has any question about where you stand needs only to view the posts you've made since Feb 24th, the date of the Russian invasion.
BTW, please call or email the head of the Russian Central Bank, and also the CEO of Sberbank (Russia's largest bank) and educate them about how time is on Russia's side. After all, you have everything figured out, right?
[URL]https://apnews.com/article/russia-ukraine-politics-st-petersburg-economy-fa80aa4723bc8ec4e12a5ce559bf0055[/URL]
[URL]https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/17/russian-economy-faces-10-years-of-recession-without-reforms-sberbank-ceo-a78031[/URL]
If these pro-Russia officials are expressing such negative assessments in public, I wonder what they're saying in private?
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710598]Yeah, the concept that Putin was right all along (which is what the article was about) looks more and more clear. I do not think the Western Press has expressed the Russian POV very well, and I am not even sure this article got into it. All you hear in the Western Press is Putin is a mad man and they highlight whenever a Russian mentions being anti-war.
My understanding is Putin felt surrounded, and that was what the Atlantic mentioned victory in Ukraine would be, a surrounded Russia. I was told that Russia had only 2 of the 9 traditional choke points against an invasion and now are in control of 5 of the 9. In addition ethnic Russians were being tortured and killed in Donbas and water was being cut off to Crimea. Add in Ukraine being in the EU and Nato, the coup of 2014, and Russiagate where the Dems demonized Putin unfairly and Ukrainegate which showed the Dems had a stranglehold in Ukraine, and far from Putin being a mad man, I can see why he felt the need for a pre-emptive strike. He is a bully but I do not see him as irrational.
Putin is a guy who took over for Yeltsin who was a drunk and ruled at a time Russians were starving. Say you what you want about him ethically, but he gets the trains to run on time almost as well as any Russian leader can. Yes, it is not a Democracy, but Russians have historically preferred a strong armed leader versus an elected one. This again is something most Westerners do not get.
The hysteria has died down. No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. The return on the $40 billion the USA has sent to Ukraine may as well have been lit on fire for all the good it will do, and our nation is suffering with higher oil and gas prices and higher food prices.
Here are two pieces which show the diametrically opposed positions: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/heat-scorched-odessa-texas-has-been-without-water-all-week-due-ageing-infrastructure[/URL].
As residents are hopeful that the crisis finally resolves Saturday, it's worth noting the irony in billions of taxpayer dollars currently being sent to places like Odessa, Ukraine. Even as Americans in places like Odessa, Texas can't even get drinkable water due to "ageing infrastructure"..[/QUOTE]His health has visibly deteriorated even since the beginning of his invasion. That's not just my opinion as plenty of doctors have posted their observations. So, IMO, any discussion of "Putin this," or "Putin that," should honestly address the question of what happens after Putin.
Will there be a backstabbing succession bloodbath among the elite, or will Putin orchestrate a smooth transition? And, depending who the new leader is, what data is there to support the idea that they'll simply continue all of Putin's policies? Did Stalin merely continue Leninism? Did Krushchev simply parrot Stalinism? Or did they chart their own path? And what about the age-old tendency of any new leadership to blame their predecessors for society's problems? Why wouldn't a new leader simply blame Putin? That would be extremely easy to do, especially if Putin was dead.
As far as support for Ukraine is concerned, isn't it interesting that, the closer a country is to Russia, the stronger their support is likely to be. I'm more inclined to look at what Poland and the Baltics are saying, as they know Putin better than anyone. And all of them believe that Putin has no intention of stopping with only Ukraine. And that view is supported by Putin's own words, such as his recent speech in which he talks about reclaiming "historic Russian lands" in the manner of Peter the Great. One doesn't need to read pundits and analysts to figure out Putin's thoughts and ambitions. He speaks them quite plainly.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710598]Yeah, the concept that Putin was right all along (which is what the article was about) looks more and more clear. I do not think the Western Press has expressed the Russian POV very well, and I am not even sure this article got into it. All you hear in the Western Press is Putin is a mad man and they highlight whenever a Russian mentions being anti-war.
My understanding is Putin felt surrounded[/QUOTE]Top of the bullshit to you, too!
Putin felt threatened. Aha. Right. Please tell me more.
Putin has hated Ukraine for at least 30 years. He's been incensed that Ukraine that he'd never thought of as more than yet another Russian province, decided to kick out his errand boy Yanukovich and choose Europe over his wonderful Russian World.
But you know what, Elvis, let's say you're right. You ain't, but what the hell, I feel generous.
Let's say he did "feel" surrounded.
Now why should normal people care how psychopaths feel?
How did Hitler feel? How did Pol Pot feel? How did Saddam feel? How did Gaddafi feel? Who the fuck cares how they felt?
No one threatened Russia. Not a single country or an individual. No one.
Whatever that power-drunk maniac might or might not have felt didn't have any roots in reality. When he tried to bend the reality to his will (presuming that your idiotic theory is true, which it isn't), reality hit him back right in his botoxed mug.
There is no way out for him. Unfortunately, he'll murder tens of thousands more until he meets his end.
Nevertheless, the day will come no matter how many pedros, golphinhos, elvises and other despicable Russian shills keep doing his bidding.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2710655]Let's say he did "feel" surrounded.
Now why should normal people care how psychopaths feel?[/QUOTE]This is a typical Dumb dem POV. You do not care the Russian people who were starving before he came to power or that he can in one second decide to end the war. I love how stupid you Dems are. Putin is a madman, a psychopath, and we should not care how he feels?
You dumb Dems are all lined up combatting each other like you did with Trump over who can give out the best insults. Nothing is off the table.
Why should we care how he feels? Well, another reason is because he can wipe us out with one push of a button, you effing moron.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2710655]Nevertheless, the day will come no matter how many pedros, golphinhos, elvises and other despicable Russian shills keep doing his bidding.[/QUOTE]Understanding someone's POV is not doing their bidding, you fool. It is the first step you take to get to peace.
And seeing how you want war so much, have you volunteered to enlist? Or are you just willing to fight the Russians until the last dead Ukrainian?
How dare you bring up dead bodies while you are cheering on war.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2710463]Russians do not take shit. Anyone who's been there even once should have very quickly found that out for themselves. It should be no surprise how this war is unfolding, yet the self-delusion among the willfully ignorant persists.[/QUOTE]Russians take a lot of shit you twerp as they have no other choice. They took a thorough ass whooping in the Russo-Japanese War. They took an additional ass whooping from the Bolcheviks and backed out of WW I. They were at the standing eight count from the Nazis until the West rescued them through re-supplies. They lost the Cold War, their women sucking Western cock to this day to survive, and now have an economy about the size of Texas. To add insult to injury, they've been forced to tuck tail and tun from Kyiv and Kharkiv, and can barely hold their own against a much smaller neighboring country. They are seemingly all white though excepting the Asian provinces, and anti-Jew, and that's why they get a sympathetic though meaningless ear from you here in ISG. Yawns. Bigots absent intellectual pursuits are a dime a dozen.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2710655]Whatever that power-drunk maniac might or might not have felt didn't have any roots in reality. .[/QUOTE]All these "feelings" were mere excuses on par with the "feelings" Hitler used for his neighboring land grabs. Little Vlad already stated that he has no problem with Finland joining NATO, a country with a 700 mile shared border. The issue with the Ukraine is his false historical narrative and claim that they have no right to exist. Then after that we get to the real reason, that he wants their farmlands and ports, and ultimately a restoration of the old Soviet empire if he can manage to pull it off. With the American far right in his corner, and in power in the US, he'd have a real shot at pulling it off.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2710529] But isn't one river crossing over the Kakhovka Dam? That one, I'd guess, would not be targeted for destruction. [/QUOTE]There is a road on top of this dam, but I doubt, it would be capable of allowing lot of heavy armour to pass. So no good replacement for the bridges in Cherson.
Because the dam is user for water control, and electricity generation, not a valid target for destruction by the UA forces.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2710787]There is a road on top of this dam, but I doubt, it would be capable of allowing lot of heavy armour to pass. So no good replacement for the bridges in Cherson.
Because the dam is user for water control, and electricity generation, not a valid target for destruction by the UA forces.[/QUOTE]All these Nazis can do is destroy, just like the last days of the Reich. Speaking of which, little Emperor Macron lost and Colombia has told the Yanks to f off. Civilisation's only hope is open season on acultural interlopers (Americans, other ferals).
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2710710]Russians take a lot of shit you twerp as they have no other choice. They took a thorough ass whooping in the Russo-Japanese War. They took an additional ass whooping from the Bolcheviks and backed out of WW I. They were at the standing eight count from the Nazis until the West rescued them through re-supplies. They lost the Cold War, their women sucking Western cock to this day to survive, and now have an economy about the size of Texas. To add insult to injury, they've been forced to tuck tail and tun from Kyiv and Kharkiv, and can barely hold their own against a much smaller neighboring country. They are seemingly all white though excepting the Asian provinces, and anti-Jew, and that's why they get a sympathetic though meaningless ear from you here in ISG. Yawns. Bigots absent intellectual pursuits are a dime a dozen.[/QUOTE]Very well said.
The United States and Britain significantly supplying the Russians is an interesting fact that even Stalin and Khrushchev admonished as a major cause for their victory.
I fast forward to today and it would appear Russian military equipment is not a match for Western equipment. Russia's relative isolation and its failure to modernize in a deep sense has always limited the country.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2710716]With the American far right in his corner, and in power in the US, he'd have a real shot at pulling it off.[/QUOTE]What far right wing Americans have voiced support for Putin? It is better to say that we want to hold back on your wanton spending. That $40 billion in weapons money is going to get us nothing. How much "foreign aid" money to Ukraine ended up in Democratic coffers? You expect us to believe Hunter Biden was the only one? All you lefties were and are making bank demonizing Putin. If you are so anti-Putin, go volunteer to fight the Ruskies yourself.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2710517]Unlike some, I don't need a fuckboard to find foreign pussy. I've lived abroad for enough years that I can manage just fine.[/QUOTE]Easy Cowboy. Don't bite the forum that feeds everyone. This is the International Sex Guide.
Similar to me challenging Golfinho awhile back on his post that Americans take their strong currency to buy cheap, third world pussy, we shouldn't criticize the forum and its members inadvertently or not.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2710285]I agree that it's going to be "a long, grinding war" but you seem to presume that Ukraine somehow has a power to stop it. It doesn't.[/QUOTE]I agree with the sentiment. Barring Putin dying or being deposed, I just don't know how the war comes to some type of end without negotiations.
I think there is a strong possibility that when the fighting ceases the dividing line between Russia and Ukraine will look like the Korean Demilitarized Zone. I suspect Russia and the Ukraine will be in a state of hostility for many years to come.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2710206]While I'm absolutely pro-Ukraine in sentiment, I've done my best to focus on what's actually happening, not on what "should" happen or even what I want to happen. If you can indicate the post, or posts, of mine in which I cross the line into prediction territory, please share.
It seems to me that I'm the loudest voice in this forum shouting that predictions are a fool's errand, as this war is unique in many aspects and there are too many variables, known and unknown. In fact, that's the very criticism I level against your article, is it not?
My personal feelings aside, any optimism I've expressed is generally based on optimistic developments, such as arms commitments and other support measures for Ukraine, or the recent granting of EU candidate status. Any such developments that help Ukraine sustain their war effort are positive things, and I'm not shy about pointing them out.
If, however, support for Ukraine started to fade, or other developments with long-term negative implications occurred, I would discuss those honestly. To this point I would assert that the weight of the evidence leans in a positive direction for Ukraine. And, as I've also posted numerous times, I do my best to focus on the tides, rather than waves or ripples..[/QUOTE]Let me clarify. I said all predictions on this war are specious. As far as you making predictions, I can't recall if you specifically did or didn't. I do however think you might be more optimistic for the post-war outcome than I am. My opinion on that can change and most certainly will as time and things progress with the battle, the Russian economy, the global economy and the diplomatic front. (Note: I am not in camp with the pro-Russian or anti-Ukrainian crowd.).
Since I think Foreign Affairs tries to be somewhat objective, let me give you some further background on the article I posted. It was titled "What If Ukraine Wins?" It was a part of a multi article set. The other titles are "What If Russia Loses?" "What if Russia Wins?" "What If Russia Makes a Deal? And "What If the War in Ukraine Doesn't End?" So Foreign Affairs does try to look at all the possibilities for an outcome. I will have to admit they take a relatively pessimistic tone in all the possibilities.
I think you have laid out above the poor scenarios for Russia nicely. I don't have any disagreement there.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2710928]Easy Cowboy. Don't bite the forum that feeds everyone. This is the International Sex Guide.
Similar to me challenging Golfinho awhile back on his post that Americans take their strong currency to buy cheap, third world pussy, we shouldn't criticize the forum and its members inadvertently or not.[/QUOTE]As I noted, I've made extensive use of the US-centric site. I was just responding to the asinine insinuation that one's number of posts has any relevance to the content of those posts. Poor Pedrito has really taken to scraping the bottom of the barrel in his futile attempts to attack me. His latest bleatings truly reek of desperation.
At the recent St. Petersburg Int'l Economic Forum (SPIEF) Kazakhstan President Tokayev raised eyebrows when he said his country would refuse to recognize the separatist republics of Luhansk and Donetsk. Here's the link and quote:
[URL]https://en.trend.az/casia/kazakhstan/3610762.html[/URL]
"It has been calculated that if the right of a nation to self-determination is organized throughout the globe, instead of the 193 states that are now members of the UN, more than 500-600 states will appear on earth. It will be chaos. For this reason, we do not recognize either Taiwan, or Kosovo, or South Ossetia, or Abkhazia. Apparently, this principle will also be applied to quasi-state structures, which, in our opinion, are Lugansk and Donetsk. This is a frank answer to your frank question".
And, in another discordant note, Tokayev refused to accept an award (Order of Alexander Nevsky) from Russia. Putin is reportedly furious at this show of disrespect, especially since the SPIEF was hosted by Russia. And the same reports state that Putin is planning consequences (preparing "gifts") in response.
[URL]https://newsfounded.com/ukraineeng/tokayev-humiliated-putin-dictator-will-answer-unian/[/URL]
Two additional reports state that Russia has placed restrictions on flows of Kazakh oil through a pipeline and that Kazakhstan may be responding by blocking railcars full of Russian coal. Take these last two reports with a grain of salt, as they're still awaiting verification by more established news sources. But still, everything taken as a whole seems to suggest that all is not rosy in LilliPutin's own backyard.
[URL]https://intellinews.com/face-to-face-with-putin-kazakhstan-s-president-refuses-to-recognise-ukraine-breakaway-republics-248002/[/URL]
"Indeed, one of the first developments in relation to Russia and Kazakhstan that occurred on June 17, shortly after Tokayev's words, was an announcement that the Caspian Pipeline Consortium (CPC) would be periodically halting oil shipments in order to allow the Russian Emergency Situations Ministry to defuse around 50 WWII era mines it had found on the Black Sea seabed. Kazakhstan relies significantly on the CPC infrastructure for oil exports".
[URL]https://thesaxon.org/kazakhstan-blocked-1700-wagons-with-russian-coal-media/[/URL]
"Authorities of Kazakhstan decided to block 1700 wagons with Russian coal on their territory. The Telegram channel "We Can Explain" writes about this with reference to its sources".
Again, some of the above reporting needs additional verification, but that won't be easy since I doubt either Russia or Kazakhstan will want to discuss any problems. But it certainly seems like something to keep an eye on and, though it may not result in any major change to the situation, it's an example of one of those "under the radar" variables that no one's really discussed or analyzed. Or, if they have, I haven't seen it yet.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2710928]Easy Cowboy. Don't bite the forum that feeds everyone. This is the International Sex Guide.
Similar to me challenging Golfinho awhile back on his post that Americans take their strong currency to buy cheap, third world pussy, we shouldn't criticize the forum and its members inadvertently or not.[/QUOTE]That's completely irrelevant to the point, as no one in their right mind is thinking of going to the Ukraine or Russia now. But if you are out to give Golfinho a BJ then you need a different angle.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2710896]Very well said.
The United States and Britain significantly supplying the Russians is an interesting fact that even Stalin and Khrushchev admonished as a major cause for their victory.
I fast forward to today and it would appear Russian military equipment is not a match for Western equipment. Russia's relative isolation and its failure to modernize in a deep sense has always limited the country.[/QUOTE]US and British re-supply on their back channel was essential or else the thorough ass whooping of the Russos would have been completed.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2711007]Let me clarify. I said all predictions on this war are specious. As far as you making predictions, I can't recall if you specifically did or didn't. I do however think you might be more optimistic for the post-war outcome than I am. My opinion on that can change and most certainly will as time and things progress with the battle, the Russian economy, the global economy and the diplomatic front. (Note: I am not in camp with the pro-Russian or anti-Ukrainian crowd.).
Since I think Foreign Affairs tries to be somewhat objective, let me give you some further background on the article I posted. It was titled "What If Ukraine Wins?" It was a part of a multi article set. The other titles are "What If Russia Loses?" "What if Russia Wins?" "What If Russia Makes a Deal? And "What If the War in Ukraine Doesn't End?" So Foreign Affairs does try to look at all the possibilities for an outcome. I will have to admit they take a relatively pessimistic tone in all the possibilities.
I think you have laid out above the poor scenarios for Russia nicely. I don't have any disagreement there.[/QUOTE]I didn't realize that was the case. But I tend to be critical of most media, as a general rule, because there's so much shallow reporting out there. And for me the cardinal sin is the widespread reluctance of authors to be honest and humble about how much they don't know. It's as if they think their reputation will take a hit if they don't sound authoritative. Or maybe it's the fault of the editors or corporate managers? I don't know, but I think the opposite would be the case. I know I'd certainly respect them more.
Think about it in terms of historical wars. How often did the learned pundits and analysts, writing in the early stages of those wars, get it right? In the Civil War, for example, the early advantages were held by the South as Lee was more advance-minded and McLellan was more on the back foot. So, anyone writing before the 2nd Battle of Bull Run, to pick one milestone, would have been justified in being pessimistic about the Union's prospects.
In WW-II, Allied butt was being royally kicked by the Axis for most of the early stages of the war. Of course, most US media coverage was of the patriotic cheerleader variety, but I'm sure serious analysts had deep concerns regarding the course of the war. But did any pundit or analyst accurately predict that Hitler would try something like Operation Barbarossa, and thereby squander his advantage?
Maybe I've missed a war or particular pundit in which accurate predictions took place. I'll happily admit to that, if such an example exists. But it seems to me that the record of wartime analysts is about as good as those who make economic projections, which is to say not very good. Don't get me wrong, they're great at pointing out things to watch out for, and also for explaining things that have already happened. But the sheer number of dynamic variables involved in a wartime scenario makes it a daunting challenge.
As for my optimism, it's simply based on my assessment of how tidal forces are currently flowing. One prime example is that I think there's been a paradigm shift in how the world views Russia, and what that means for geopolitical relationships going forward. Putin-Dora's Box has been opened, with all the hatefulness and evil revealed, and there's no closing it again. Putin could order a stop to the fighting, and withdraw his forces from Ukraine, but that wouldn't return us to the status quo ante. They've crossed the Rubicon and will be (rightly) perceived as a threat, and NOT as a partner, for decades (or generations) to come. And I think that new reality will create even more alliances in Europe and beyond as a necessary protective counterbalance. Of course there will be bumps in the road, but I think things will come together, not because of altruistic motives, but because of legitimate security concerns. It'll be messy but I think the West (NATO, EU, etc.) will figure it out. OTOH, I don't see any realistic scenario by which Russia avoids pariah status and a significantly more isolated existence than before. And that's a tidal force I see that's flowing inexorably in a negative direction for Russia.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710920]What far right wing Americans have voiced support for Putin? It is better to say that we want to hold back on your wanton spending. That $40 billion in weapons money is going to get us nothing. How much "foreign aid" money to Ukraine ended up in Democratic coffers? You expect us to believe Hunter Biden was the only one? All you lefties were and are making bank demonizing Putin. If you are so anti-Putin, go volunteer to fight the Ruskies yourself.[/QUOTE]Twerp there's no need to demonize Putin as he does it himself, attacking breadlines and maternity wards while executing people with their hands tied behind their backs in basements. As to me, if someone comes to my neighborhood doing the same I'll take up arms. In the meantime I'll support our allies abroad in a similar predicament. Asking AARP members to become overseas mercenaries when they call out your unamerican isolationlist nonsense represents the Tu Quoque fallacy which is another take on the Ad hominem. Only 11 Republican senators were against the latest aid package, no Dem so you are off on the fringes where you belong.
[URL]https://www.thoughtco.com/tu-quoque-logical-fallacy-1692568[/URL]
P.S. As to Hunter's laptop, that one is filed away with your 2000 Mules, ballots on Chinese paper, Hillary's emails, Barak's birth certificate, lock her up, stop the steal, John Durham, and the array of Covid conspiracy theories you suckers have been pitching for two years. The one grifting in Ukraine is Trump, caught on tape withholding taxpayer funds for personal favors.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2711064]That's completely irrelevant to the point, as no one in their right mind is thinking of going to the Ukraine or Russia now. But if you are out to give Golfinho a BJ then you need a different angle.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry, but I don't think you followed the context of my post as they relate to the posts referenced.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2711097]I didn't realize that was the case. But I tend to be critical of most media, as a general rule, because there's so much shallow reporting out there. And for me the cardinal sin is the widespread reluctance of authors to be honest and humble about how much they don't know. It's as if they think their reputation will take a hit if they don't sound authoritative. Or maybe it's the fault of the editors or corporate managers? I don't know, but I think the opposite would be the case. I know I'd certainly respect them more..[/QUOTE]I would concur with your take on today's journalism. It's moved far beyond reporting. Every journalist seems to be providing commentary. It doesn't matter if we are talking politics, economics, COVID or the war in the Ukraine. The media wants to be viewed as an authority on all matters.
As far as the future regardless of the war's resolution, Putin has put Russia in a very bad place for likely his remaining life. However, I am a cynical and critical American. I think there will be the usual rapprochement by the usual European countries sooner and more amicable than the USA And you. K. You can bet Poland and the Baltic states will not look past this Ukraine aggression anytime soon.
Let's pray Kaliningrad fares well and that Vilnius does not get the mushroom cloud it deserves from either China or Russia, as it has some nice architecture.
I see the two Yankee mercenaries (the Viet and the bio labs guy) are saying they are anti war. Walking corpses often are.
Let the Americans and Israelis troll on. Hopefully, the Lithuanians will get what they want and deserve.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2711251]I'm sorry, but I don't think you followed the context of my post as they relate to the posts referenced.[/QUOTE]You get the benefit of the doubt as I agree with 90% of your content. Keep up the good work.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2711259]Let's pray Kaliningrad fares well and that Vilnius does not get the mushroom cloud it deserves from either China or Russia, as it has some nice architecture.
I see the two Yankee mercenaries (the Viet and the bio labs guy) are saying they are anti war. Walking corpses often are.
Let the Americans and Israelis troll on. Hopefully, the Lithuanians will get what they want and deserve.[/QUOTE]There's prisoners of war on both sides as is the norm. Trades are possible. China isn't interested beyond lip service as Russia is a third rate buttboy, an economy the size of Texas. Push comes to shove they side with the Yanks. As you are a buttboy in a hooker forum, bend, grab your ankles and cringe. LOL.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2711259]Let's pray Kaliningrad fares well and that Vilnius does not get the mushroom cloud it deserves [/QUOTE]Ah, I hear Putlers troll speaking. Since when is a independent state, like Luthania, obliged to allow any type of goods, even military, to transit its borders?
Only Putler might request this "natural right", based on military power. Unfortunately, Luthania is member of NATO, so its not so easy for him to enforce this "natural right".
BTW, may be, Germany should request "repatriation" of Koenigsberg (actually: Kaliningrad), because of being native German for more than 300 years.
Putler is invited to carry goods to Kaliningrad by air. Like the Americans did, during the blockage of Berlin by the Russians.
Or Putler might send ships. No blockage of Kaliningrads ports, like Putler does to the UA.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2711288]...BTW, may be, Germany should request "repatriation" of Koenigsberg (actually: Kaliningrad)...[/QUOTE]Also, how about Karelia and the Kuril islands?
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710598]Yeah, the concept that Putin was right all along (which is what the article was about) looks more and more clear. I do not think the Western Press has expressed the Russian POV very well, and I am not even sure this article got into it. All you hear in the Western Press is Putin is a mad man and they highlight whenever a Russian mentions being anti-war.
My understanding is Putin felt surrounded, and that was what the Atlantic mentioned victory in Ukraine would be, a surrounded Russia. I was told that Russia had only 2 of the 9 traditional choke points against an invasion and now are in control of 5 of the 9. In addition ethnic Russians were being tortured and killed in Donbas and water was being cut off to Crimea. Add in Ukraine being in the EU and Nato, the coup of 2014, and Russiagate where the Dems demonized Putin unfairly and Ukrainegate which showed the Dems had a stranglehold in Ukraine, and far from Putin being a mad man, I can see why he felt the need for a pre-emptive strike. He is a bully but I do not see him as irrational.
Putin is a guy who took over for Yeltsin who was a drunk and ruled at a time Russians were starving. Say you what you want about him ethically, but he gets the trains to run on time almost as well as any Russian leader can. Yes, it is not a Democracy, but Russians have historically preferred a strong armed leader versus an elected one. This again is something most Westerners do not get.
The hysteria has died down. No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. The return on the $40 billion the USA has sent to Ukraine may as well have been lit on fire for all the good it will do, and our nation is suffering with higher oil and gas prices and higher food prices.
Here are two pieces which show the diametrically opposed positions: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/heat-scorched-odessa-texas-has-been-without-water-all-week-due-ageing-infrastructure[/URL].
As residents are hopeful that the crisis finally resolves Saturday, it's worth noting the irony in billions of taxpayer dollars currently being sent to places like Odessa, Ukraine. Even as Americans in places like Odessa, Texas can't even get drinkable water due to "ageing infrastructure".
[URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/we-must-do-more-ukraine-even-if-costs-food-fuel-are-high-western-populations-nato[/URL]
Top officials in the West warning their populations against "Ukraine fatigue", saying that 'sacrifices' must be made for the long-term despite the 'high costs' in blood and treasure of continuing to ramp up support for Ukraine. This time it's NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg making unusually blunt statements, addressing the common masses.
"We must prepare for the fact that it could take years. We must not let up in supporting Ukraine," he began by saying in an interview published Sunday by Germany's Bild am Sonntag newspaper. He stressed this should be the case "even if the costs are high, not only for military support, also because of rising energy and food prices. ".
Why do we have to help Ukraine? The whole notion that Russia was going to March onto the English Channel made no sense to me. So the French, UK, and USA are not going to nuke Russia if that happens? Since when?
The question I have for this NATO General is we know the defense industry gets a return on investing in war but do we the American people get such a return? That answer is not maybe but probably not and in that case, we should not keep committing. If a NATO country is invaded, that is another story. If you look at this economically, Putin was right. The benefit of defending Ukraine was not worth the cost.[/QUOTE]Zero Hedge is not quite the BBC or Reuters in its reporting.
USA Accuses Zero Hedge of Spreading Russian Propaganda.
[URL]https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-15/us-accuses-financial-website-of-spreading-russian-propaganda[/URL]#xj4 y7 vzkg.
Is Zero Hedge a Russian Trojan Horse?
[URL]https://newrepublic.com/article/156788/zero-hedge-russian-trojan-horse[/URL]
[URL]https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Zero_Hedge[/URL]
[QUOTE=JohnClayton;2711303]Also, how about Karelia and the Kuril islands?[/QUOTE]Makes sense. Wasn't Karelia annexed by Soviet Union, having "Security Issues" for Leningrad (now St. Petersburg again), because border to Finland was too close?
Nowadays Putler argues a bit similar.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710598] No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. [/QUOTE]But Putler has learned a few lessons from Adolf Hitler. And Stalin. Hitler annexed "Sudetenland" with same argumentation as Putler uses today.
Only difference: Hitlers army was really welcome with (some) flowers.
Stalin annexed part of Finland having "Security Concerns", because border to Finland was too close to Leningrad (St. Petersburg).
Western contries believed, that Hitlers aggression would be fnished, after grabbing "Sudetenland".
They were wrong.
Not to make same mistake with Putler again. For whom the Baltics or Moldova might be next countries of interest.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2711240]As to Hunter's laptop, that one is filed away with your 2000 Mules, ballots on Chinese paper, Hillary's emails, Barak's birth certificate, lock her up, stop the steal, John Durham, and the array of Covid conspiracy theories you suckers have been pitching for two years.[/QUOTE]Sorry, Hunter's laptop was real. The claims that the laptop was Russian disinformation was complete bullshit. Hiliary kept emails on an unsecure server illegally. That is a fact, and her case should have gone to trial. It was not appropriate for Comey, who we now know was compromised, to have made the decision not to prosecute. That should have been left to a prosecutor but Loretta Lynch was compromised as well.
2000 mules is a theory based on circumstantial evidence. The main charge against it is that the cell phone signals are not that accurate, but anyone who uses Uber and can see how accurate GPS is with phones knows that is bullshit. Durham caught a government lawyer lying on a FISA warrant request. He also caught Sussman lying to the FBI. He was found not guilty but no one said he was not lying. And the lab leak theory has now been accepted as possible even by the WHO.
I do not know about the Chinese paper and yeah, the Obama birth certificate thing was bullshit. Congratulations, you got one right, and that one was 10 years ago.
So all the things you call bullshit conspiracy theory blew up in your face. Russiagate was a total conspiracy and fraud. Trump being spied on during the campaign was conspiracy theory too until it was proven to be true.
Hunter Biden was collecting big money from the Ukrainian aid package, and daddy Joe fired the prosecutor looking into said corruption. Nancy Pelosi's kid and Mitt Romney's kid were cashing in too. That is not illegal but it is disgusting. Giving them money was basically legal bribery.
Then we learned that Ukraine was being run by Democratic operatives in NGOs. Maybe that is not known to the Republicans who voted for this $40 billion in military aid but it should have been. Even the hero to Democrats Marie Yovanovitch, former Ukraine ambassador, admits that had Trump been in office, Putin would not have invaded, and it is not because Trump was Putin's butt boy but because Biden continued to fuck around in Ukraine.
So here we go again. You dumb Dems unload on Putin like you did on Trump. Your litany of analogies to Hitler, Pot Pol ETC are predictable. Thing is in every situation where that kind of language was used, and a despot was kicked out in recent times, that nation's quality of life went in the toilet. Hell, you just demonized Trump to no end and we got Biden. Covid cases soared with him, we have inflation and $6 gas, a bear market, and shortages of tampons and baby formula. Woo hoo! Of course, like so many of the dumbest Dems you are not in America so you do not see the effects like those of us who live here do, but it is not good.
So get beyond the name calling, and what have you got? Nothing. Everything was baked into a Ukrainian victory and that is not happening. That $40 billion that was spent has been pissed away. Who cares? You are not paying taxes. Your lazy ass is getting social security checks and cheap health care. Of course, those of us who have to work for it and pay for it are not pleased. I wonder if all you saber rattling dumb Dem freeloaders would have been this way had your SS checks been cut to pay for said aid.
So now what? You dumb Dems going to continue talking shit about Putin? How does that help? If you want this war over with, and it is pretty clear now you do not, Putin has to be dealt with. He is the only one who can stop it.
Your grand plan of spending billions of dollars to get a huge boost in the midterms from Putin being kicked out of office has gone up in smoke, and that and only that was what all the trash talking was about. If you all gave a damn about the Ukrainian people, this war would be over with. Hell, you dumb Dems are continuing to throw Ukrainian lives in the toilet just to "weaken" Putin.
Ukraine president, Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelensky, addressed the African Union yesterday. Out of 55 invited heads of state only four (4) attended the virtual session. The message is America can keep its Ukrainian pervert, who plays piano with his penis.
Hopefully, the false war will be over soon and Lithuania can be blitzed off the face of the earth as a warning to Canada about treaty obligations. The beggars in Warsaw also need a lesson. The main objective must be to cleanse Europe of Americans, who are behind all this. Can't make an omelette without cracking heads.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710598]The hysteria has died down. No, Russia does not look like it is going to blow up everything in sight and stop at taking areas of Ukraine where there is a predominantly Russian population. He has shown no desire to March to the English Channel as some have mentioned. The return on the $40 billion the USA has sent to Ukraine may as well have been lit on fire for all the good it will do, and our nation is suffering with higher oil and gas prices and higher food prices.[/QUOTE]Well when Russia is blowing up maternity wards and breadlines, shooting down seniors in the street and executing civilians in basements they are pretty much "blowing up everything in sight" aren't they? And if he was only interested in conquering areas with Russian speaking populations then why did he try to take Kyiv? You also erect a straw man when you talk about marching to the English Channel when Putin has been clear that he wants to see the restoration of the former USSR in regard to a rollback of NATO to pre-1997. So in essence, out of your love for arguing, you come to the Ukraine free for all thread sympathizing with our enemies with the usual spurious arguments.
As to your gasoline costs, you deserve to pay double driving an old over sized pickup truck when an economy car will do, no sympathy here. Democracy is and that of our allies is more important than the inconveniences of a selfish twit.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2711322]But Putler has learned a few lessons from Adolf Hitler. And Stalin. Hitler annexed "Sudetenland" with same argumentation as Putler uses today.
Stalin annexed part of Finland having "Security Concerns", because border to Finland was too close to Leningrad (St. Petersburg).
Western contries believed, that .[/QUOTE]The Ukrunazis are conducting scorched earth tactics destroying all the infrastructure they can along with murdering all the civilians they can while razing their homes and running back to their Banderastan capital. They apparently understand how unwelcome they've been in the territories grafted unto their State by the Soviets.
They've learned quite a few lessons from Hitler, with the final ones on the way.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2711375]The Ukrunazis are conducting scorched earth tactics destroying all the infrastructure they can along with murdering all the civilians they can while razing their homes and running back to their Banderastan capital. They apparently understand how unwelcome they've been in the territories grafted unto their State by the Soviets.
They've learned quite a few lessons from Hitler, with the final ones on the way.[/QUOTE]Murdering civilians has long been out of the Russo playbook dating to Chechnya, Syria, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. We are exacting a heavy price, much to their dismay.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2710920]What far right wing Americans have voiced support for Putin[/QUOTE]This is disingenuous as you've offered praise for Tucker Carlson who sucks Vlad's 3 inch cock on a nightly basis. I'm also glad to see you identify yourself as "far right" which is generous given your gullible, kooky views. As to spending, yes, we support democracy abroad as the world is a community. Disorder across Europe effects us at home, Duh. Even cock swallowers like Josh Hawley know this, but pitch the isolationist nonsense to dumbfucks like you for his political advantage.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2711352]So in essence, out of your love for arguing, you come to the Ukraine free for all thread sympathizing with our enemies with the usual spurious arguments.[/QUOTE]LOL. I do not take my marching orders from the NY Times and Washington Post like you do. I like to think for myself.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2711352]As to your gasoline costs, you deserve to pay double driving an old over sized pickup truck when an economy car will do, no sympathy here. Democracy is and that of our allies is more important than the inconveniences of a selfish twit.[/QUOTE]I am glad you are worried about my gas prices. In case you have not noticed the ruble and Russian economy are stronger and why not? They have been getting richer than ever thanks to Biden's bone headed energy policy. I am glad you are concerned about the truck I do not own but I think giving Putin billions more is the issue.
What brought oil prices down before was American drilling. The number of operational rigs peaked at 1900+ under Obama in 2014: [URL]https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/us-rig-count/2014[/URL].
Now even with the price higher than ever, there are only 740 rigs going. [URL]https://www.aogr.com/web-exclusives/us-rig-count/2022[/URL].
As to why, Biden explains: [URL]https://www.zerohedge.com/energy/chevron-ceo-slams-political-rhetoric-scorching-letter-biden[/URL].
First, he pokes fun at "hurt feelings" of the CEO of Chevron. That was pointless and completely fucking stupid. Then Biden says, "we ought to be able to work something out whereby they can increase refining capacity and still not give up on transitioning to renewable energy. " he then says we have plenty of oil fields working now. LOL. You cannot make this shit up.
Of course, this is on Zero Hedge so Biden's own words do not care if you are a Dem. If the same linked video was in the NYT, then and only then it is valid.
So let us get things straight, Paulie, you and your buddy Biden are putting the climate change agenda ahead of all American motorists, many world industries, and the Ukrainian citizens you are crying about whose lives are being taken. Where do you think Putin gets the money for his bombs dummy? Hell, if we were drilling like crazy, that would do more to hurt Putin than anything else. But you dumb Dems are not into actions. Nah, all you do is mouth off about how much you care.
And as far as the earth in Ukraine that getting shelled on a daily basis in part with weapons bought and paid for by us? It is nothing. Mother Earth can handle one country shelled into oblivion. None of those rocket launchers and explosives have anything to do with CO2 emissions right?
Just like you were pro-lockdown back in March 2020, when we actually had fewer Covid cases than we do now, and you have forgotten about Covid, you will forget about Ukraine after the mid terms. Covid was wiped from the front page after you dumb Dems decided you had a new way to attack Republicans. Republicans stupidly were not getting vaxxed and are now in love with Putin. You will not give a shit about Ukraine after the mid terms and you get your asses handed to you. And predictably, you dumb Dems will find something new to be outraged about and demonize Republicans all over again. Your concerns about Ukraine and its people will be long gone, and that per the article I linked is exactly what Putin is counting on.
We Dems care about Covid, we Dems care more about the Ukrainian people, and you will say you care more about whatever comes next. That is being a Democrat. It is not doing anything to fix anything. It is just pretending to care more.
Your insulting me over gas prices instead of Putin's billions of dollars more from higher oil prices shows how brain dead you are. Or is that a straw man too?
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2711326]Sorry, Hunter's laptop was real. [/QUOTE]So is mine is an Acer Spin, love it, Where are the charges again Hunter or Hillary? Where's the lock her up?
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2711326]2000 mules is a theory based on circumstantial evidence. [/QUOTE]No evidence at all, you lost the election and try to do better next time.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2711326]So here we go again. You dumb Dems unload on Putin like you did on Trump. [/QUOTE]It's easy to unload on someone when he sucks the puny cock of our enemy, and with a facial finish each time. That's Trump. That's when he lies about a pandemic suggesting that we drink bleach and shine UV light up our oracfices. Then unleashes a mob of hillbillies on the Capital to kill cops and the VP, that's just for starters.
P.S. As to Obamas birth certificate, as to you admitting to that farce, what makes you think the other conspiracy theories you are chasing are true? LOL.
[QUOTE=ReinerOtto;2711322]But Putler has learned a few lessons from Adolf Hitler. And Stalin. Hitler annexed "Sudetenland" with same argumentation as Putler uses today.
Only difference: Hitlers army was really welcome with (some) flowers.
Stalin annexed part of Finland having "Security Concerns", because border to Finland was too close to Leningrad (St. Petersburg).
Western countries believed, that Hitlers aggression would be finished, after grabbing "Sudetenland".
They were wrong.
Not to make same mistake with Putler again. For whom the Baltics or Moldova might be next countries of interest.[/QUOTE]Good post, there's just no "security concerns. " The only concern is swallowing up Ukraine. They want the farmlands and the ports, and couldn't care less about borders with their refusal to complain about Finnish borders. The only problem here is the American far right, with their insistent on deep throating Putin's puny cock, and swallowing the cum of course. Yo.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2711375]The Ukrunazis are conducting scorched earth tactics destroying all the infrastructure they can along with murdering all the civilians they can while razing their homes and running back to their Banderastan capital. They apparently understand how unwelcome they've been in the territories grafted unto their State by the Soviets.
They've learned quite a few lessons from Hitler, with the final ones on the way.[/QUOTE]I find Chinese media very good. Accented but they understand. I am surprised Chinese advisors are not at the front with Russia, learning the ropes. Russia's main job is to destroy America's satraps and push on to strange Canada and other dictatorships (remember the truckers). There is no point arguing with the Nazis here, some of whom were probably gang rapists in Iraq and Afghanistan.
We can only hope that Russia will up the ante and bring this whole American house of cards tumbling down.
2 Interesting books look back at Ukraine's Past.
[URL]https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250116253/inthemidstofcivilizedeurope[/URL]
"Between 1918 and 1921, over a hundred thousand Jews were murdered in Ukraine by peasants, townsmen, and soldiers who blamed the Jews for the turmoil of the Russian Revolution. In hundreds of separate incidents, ordinary people robbed their Jewish neighbors with impunity, burned down their houses, ripped apart their Torah scrolls, sexually assaulted them, and killed them. Largely forgotten today, these pogromsethnic riotsdominated headlines and international affairs in their time. Aid workers warned that six million Jews were in danger of complete extermination. Twenty years later, these dire predictions would come true.
Drawing upon long-neglected archival materials, including thousands of newly discovered witness testimonies, trial records, and official orders, acclaimed historian Jeffrey Veidlinger shows for the first time how this wave of genocidal violence created the conditions for the Holocaust".
The other Historian [URL]https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/[/URL].
The Historian Whitewashing Ukraine's Past.
Volodymyr Viatrovych is erasing the country's racist and bloody history stripping pogroms and ethnic cleansing from the official archives.
There you have it, both sides of the History of Ukraine.
In the meantime in Israel "This week, the veteran right-wing journalist Andrew Neil tweeted "Israel fails to stand up for Ukraine. Reluctant to impose sanctions Stayed silent after Russian airstrike near Babi Yar memorial, where German Nazis killed tens of thousands of Jews in WW2". [URL]https://inews.co.uk/opinion/israel-failing-ukraine-welcoming-putins-friends-actions-cannot-be-ignored-[/URL].
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2711419]This is disingenuous as you've offered praise for Tucker Carlson who sucks Vlad's 3 inch cock on a nightly basis.[/QUOTE]You will have to show me said clips. TC has always made certain that his opposition for Democratic positions like throwing $40 billion away does not equal support for Putin. TC asks why should we care about the borders in Ukraine when we have porous ones at home.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2711419]Disorder across Europe effects us at home, Duh. Even cock swallowers like Josh Hawley know this, but pitch the isolationist nonsense to dumbfucks like you for his political advantage.[/QUOTE]Sorry, dummy, I am done with your stupidity and am profiting for it. The latest dumb Dem method to solve problems is to destroy the economy and have the government spend money to solve things. Hell, let's lay off unessential workers and then print money to compensate them. Let's ban Russian oil and gas and then print up coupons or stop the gasoline tax to cover the subsequent inflation. Yeah, let's not ban Russian oil and produce more of our own because doing so would give more money to American oil companies which typically support Republicans.
Of course, dummies like you do no see that the cost for this free money is inflation, higher interest rates, and a stock market plunge. I just shake my head at the current Democrat model of "let's destroy the economy to show that we care. ".
So I profited from this. While your buddy and "genius" Eih was long the market and has gotten crushed to the tune of being down 20 to 25% since April, I have been buying triple short ETFs and am up 60%. I am kicking myself though at not going long the ruble after Biden tried to destroy it. I would have been up 100% had I done that.
[URL]https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/13/climate/russia-oil-gas-record-revenue.html[/URL]#text=Russia%20 earned%20 what%20 is%20 very, organization%20 based%20 in%20 Helsinki%2 see%20 Finland.
"Russia earned what is very likely a record 93 billion euros in revenue from exports of oil, gas and coal in the first 100 days of the country's invasion of Ukraine, according to data analyzed by the Center for Research on Energy and Clean Air, a research organization based in Helsinki, Finland. ".
And if you are a Democrat, you call the above news success.
So do not worry about my financial condition. I am doing great seeing how your leader of choice runs our economy into the ground while boosting Russia's. But at least like you, he cares.
The civilian casualties in Hungary. "Soviets put a brutal end to Hungarian revolution".
An estimated 2,500 Hungarians died and 200,000 more fled as refugees. [URL]https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/soviets-put-brutal-end-to-hungarian-revolution[/URL].
The number of Civilians killed in Czechkoslovakia. "Death Toll of 1968 Invasion Published For First Time".
"The 1968 Soviet-led invasion of Czechoslovakia killed at least 72 people and seriously injured 266, a newspaper reported Wednesday in the first official disclosure of the casualty toll"[URL]https://apnews.com/article/b4a9687dbcadae26df1833f87a88797d[/URL].
Initially, some civilians tried to argue with the invading troops, but this met with little or no success. After the USSR used photographs of these discussions as proof that the invasion troops were being greeted amicably, secret Czechoslovak broadcasting stations discouraged the practice, reminding the people that "pictures are silent". The protests in reaction to the invasion lasted only about seven days. Explanations for the fizzling of these public outbursts mostly centre on demoralisation of the population, whether from the intimidation of all the enemy troops and tanks or from being abandoned by their leaders. Many Czechoslovaks saw the signing of the Moscow Protocol as treasonous. Another common explanation is that, due to the fact that most of Czech society was middle class, the cost of continued resistance meant giving up a comfortable lifestyle, which was too high a price to pay".
Decades later at present, Putin's ally is in Hungary and the Czech Republic is number 18 in the league of Happy Nations. Czech Republic Rises To 18th In World Happiness Rankings [URL]https://brnodaily.com/2021/03/24/news/czech-republic-rises-to-18th-in-world-happiness-rankings/[/URL].
Went on a backpacking vacations in my misspent youth to both countries just before The Wall came down and I never met anyone there or in Poland who liked Russia or the Russians.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2711587]The civilian casualties in Hungary. "Soviets put a brutal end to Hungarian revolution".
An estimated 2,500 Hungarians died and
"The 1968 Soviet-led
Initially, some civilians tried to argue with the invading troops, but this met with little or no success. After the USSR used photographs of these discussions as proof that the invasion troops were being greeted amicably, secret Czechoslovak broadcasting stations discouraged the practice, reminding the people that "pictures are silent". The protests in reaction.[/QUOTE]The Hungarians acted indecisively at crucial moments and were ultimately betrayed by their own leadership. Also there was the unfortunate timing of the Suez Crisis.
Prague 1968? Anything else happen that year? Like revolutionary outbreak elsewhere, USA maybe.
Russians don't bluff, and they don't take shit. Putin has said to expect a change of (leadership) in the Anglo-American sphere. Now, there's something to look forward to -- while the globohomos sit rubbing their hands together wetdreaming about how many more dead orthodox Ukrainians it will take until leadership change in Russia.
[URL]https://www.businessinsider.com/mounting-signs-the-kremlin-is-purging-top-generals-in-ukraine-experts-2022-6[/URL]
The above link is the short version. The link below has more detail, as well as the latest battle assessment.
[URL]https://www.understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-june-21[/URL]
"The Kremlin recently replaced the commander of the Russian Airborne (VDV) forces and may be in the process of radically reshuffling the command structure of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, indicating a possible purge of senior officers blamed for failures in Ukraine".
Also, about the battle assessment, any objective observer will note that the give and take continues, with neither side (yet) able to gain any significant strategic advantage.
That latter point brings up an ongoing flaw with most mainstream media reporting. It doesn't make for compelling reading to simply repeat that the war is going through a "long, hard slog" phase in which there's not difference from one day to the next. So MSM outlets have a need to find stuff to attract readers even when not much new is happening.
I wonder if the lack of new developments is at least partly to blame for the lame content of so many recent forum posts? I mean, American Politics, really? Give me an effin' break! First of all, there's a dedicated thread for that. And then there's the simple fact that, except for factors that directly impact (either for or against) the current state of the war, it's completely irrelevant, or at the very least immaterial.
And, of course, there are the regular regurgitations of Russo-fascist propaganda by the schmegegge twin-trolls, with nary a connection to reality to be gleaned from their content-free bleatings. Meanwhile, real Ukrainians are fighting and dying to resist Russian imperialist aggression. Is it too much to ask to at least try to keep the focus on them?
P.S. I would be remiss if I didn't mention a couple of newsbits, like the Ukrainian attacks on both Snake Island and the oil facility in Rostov. Oh yes, and the "promotion" of the Russian ship, Vasily Bekh, to the glorious rank of Moskva-class submarine! But those are novelty items, by which I mean that they're interesting but not likely to have meaningful strategic impact.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2711674]Russians don't bluff, and they don't take shit. Putin has said to expect a change of (leadership) in the Anglo-American sphere. Now, there's something to look forward to -- while the globohomos sit rubbing their hands together wetdreaming about how many more dead orthodox Ukrainians it will take until leadership change in Russia.[/QUOTE]Putin reportedly suffered an unexplained, prolonged, and serious nosebleed. In healthy people, or if there's a physical cause like getting hit in the nose, that wouldn't be cause for concern. But for someone who is obviously unhealthy and reportedly suffering from serious ailments (cancer, etc.) an unexplained nosebleed can be an ominous sign.
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/generalsvr_en/status/1539307709706604548[/URL]
But the real question is what happens when LilliPutin kicks the bucket? Will the successor dance on Little Vlad's grave in public, or only in private? And will the succession happen with only a few casualties, or a full-on bloodbath? Oh yes, and will any of Russia's regions decide that it's a good time to go their own way?
As far as Russians and Putin taking any shit, both Kazakhstan and Lithuania have both just spit in his eye, and Finland has been consistently giving Russia the middle finger. On that note, here's a fascinating thread discussing that, because Putin can't really retaliate against those two (Lithuania protected by NATO and Kazakhstan protected by China and Turkey), he may take out his frustration on Lukashenko instead.
[URL]https://mobile.twitter.com/generalsvr_en/status/1539509583730905089[/URL]
Funny how more and more people and countries are having no problem dumping shit on Putin lately. Maybe his veneer of strength is increasingly wearing off and the depth of weakness showing through? Whatever the reason, I'm looking forward to more of the same!
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2711674]Russians don't bluff, and they don't take shit.[/QUOTE]Russia takes plenty of shit, straight up the corn hole, packed tight. We can start with the Russo Japanese War, and thourough ass whooping. Then we have the Bolchevik reaming and retreat from WW I, then there's the Nazi comprehensive beatdown that only the West could save them from, then the Cold War, their women pulling trains on Western cock even to this day. And if that weren't enough, then we get the twerps invading a much smaller country in jack in the box tanks getting their ass whooped at about every turn. But so yea, want to touch NATO? They do not even begin to have the balls.
Pre-Soviet Russia, the USSR, and post-Soviet Russia, all share the same terrorizing and brutalizing DNA. This thread gives a brief, non-exhaustive list of the grievances many European nations have against Mutha Russia.
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538856994869850114.html[/URL]
What I think this means is that, irrespective of what might be said publicly, there's a deep reservoir of seething antipathy toward Russia that's bubbling away under the surface, just waiting for an opportunity to erupt.
How does the saying go? Payback's a "beech" and her stripper name is Karma!
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2711763]Russia takes plenty of shit, straight up the corn hole, packed tight. We can start with the Russo Japanese War, and thourough ass whooping. Then we have the Bolchevik reaming and retreat from WW I, then there's the Nazi comprehensive beatdown that only the West could save them from, then the Cold War, their women pulling trains on Western cock even to this day. And if that weren't enough, then we get the twerps invading a much smaller country in jack in the box tanks getting their ass whooped at about every turn. But so yea, want to touch NATO? They do not even begin to have the balls.[/QUOTE]You left out the repeated waves of Asiatic hordes that swept across the land enslaving the populace. Why, the very word "slave" comes from "slav" LOL! A ruskie still loves drinking tea and eating Asian-style dumplings to this very day LOLOLOL!
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2711772]Pre-Soviet Russia, the USSR, and post-Soviet Russia, all share the same terrorizing and brutalizing DNA. This thread gives a brief, non-exhaustive list of the grievances many European nations have against Mutha Russia.
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1538856994869850114.html[/URL]
What I think this means is that, irrespective of what might be said publicly, there's a deep reservoir of seething antipathy toward Russia that's bubbling away under the surface, just waiting for an opportunity to erupt.
How does the saying go? Payback's a "beech" and her stripper name is Karma![/QUOTE]It's a real mutha for ya! Makes you want to run from Russia! And if you look you will discover! Putin is a real muthafucka yeah! LOLOLOL!
[URL]https://youtu.be/x-f5iOHYcW4[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2711726]I wonder if the lack of new developments is at least partly to blame for the lame content of so many recent forum posts? I mean, American Politics, really? Give me an effin' break! First of all, there's a dedicated thread for that. And then there's the simple fact that, except for factors that directly impact (either for or against) the current state of the war, it's completely irrelevant, or at the very least immaterial.
And, of course, there are the regular regurgitations of Russo-fascist propaganda by the schmegegge twin-trolls, with nary a connection to reality to be gleaned from their content-free bleatings. Meanwhile, real Ukrainians are fighting and dying to resist Russian imperialist aggression. Is it too much to ask to at least try to keep the focus on them?[/QUOTE]A solider gave a lecture to a class when I was in college in the 1980's. He was captured at The Battle of the Bulge and was moved to a POW camp via a horse drawn vehicle and was fed a potato a day in POW camp. He said when he was captured he knew we had one the war. The Germans were using horses, he said, "And we were eating bread made in the USA 2 days ago flown in by aircraft. ". Point is that money matters in war.
The people who said the Russians not Americans defeated the Nazis have a point, but I had family who worked the railways in Iran during WW2, and the amount of munitions that were shipped into Russia was staggering. The Iranians never saw so much stuff in their entire lives. Many on that side of my family moved to the USA after seeing how prosperous the USA was. I know from them how brutal the Russians can be.
Let's be honest. The Germans had better troops, better generals, and better equipment. They kicked the Russians ass early on as badly as they did everyone else. The Russians just had room to retreat. In the end, the Germans were done in because they lacked money and they lacked oil. Hell, they had to start using coal for oil, an incredibly inefficient process.
I was in Pecos, Texas in 2018. Oil was not even that much. It ranged from $40 to $60 a barrel then. It is a shitty West Texas town but due to the oil boom there, a room in a trailer was $100 a night. Hotels were $250 if you could find them. I talked to a city councilman there. They had so much natural gas they had to waste it and burn it. Carlos Slim of Mexico, a smart man to be sure, was building a natural gas pipeline to Mexico ready to buy up said gas. Oil companies from all over the world were drilling there, and the projects were endless. This part of Texas was producing so much oil they ran out of pipeline capacity and were having to build more. The amount of oil there was virtual unlimited, and the growth was unbelievable. People doing the most routine jobs were pulling in six figure incomes. New project after project was being planned.
Furthermore, shale oil drilling is practically no risk. There are no dry wells and on top of that, unlike conventional wells, you get the most production up front. Conventional wells typically take 5 years to get to max capacity, so this type of oil production is the only type they can quickly make up for the Russian shortfall.
I get there are supply constraints with regards to the sand, water, and cement needed to drill, but if there were 1900 rigs drilling for oil under Obama, there should be 3000+ going now. What is going to hit Putin harder than anything is not these dumb sanctions but $20 oil. You would think a fool would get this but no one in this administration does:
[URL]https://cnsnews.com/article/washington/melanie-arter/wh-press-secretary-we-dont-need-drill-more-we-need-refine-oil[/URL]
DOOCY: Why not drill more here in the USA?
JEAN-PIERRE: Because we don't need to do that. What we need to do is with the oil that's out there, we need them to refine that oil so that prices so that capacity could go up, and then prices, it would go down, would apparently go down.
DOOCY: The president once said he was going to end fossil fuel. Is that now off the table?
JEAN-PIERRE: No, we are going to continue to move forward with our clean energy proposal, the climate change proposal.
DOOCY: Is that the priority. Climate change over.
JEAN-PIERRE: No, that's not what we're saying. We're saying that I'm answering the question. I'm answering the question.
DOOCY: Is the president's priority lowering gas prices or is it addressing climate change?
JEAN-PIERRE: First of all, it's we can do both at the same time. What we're trying to deal with right now is how do we lower costs for American families, and one of the things we are seeing right now with oil refineries is they are using this moment that there is a war in Ukraine to actually make a profit when there are steps that they can take so that we can actually lower gas prices for families, and so the president has taken action, right? We talked about the Strategic Petroleum.
[URL]https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Russia-Sees-Extra-64-Billion-Oil-Revenue-In-June-As-Prices-Rally.html[/URL]
According to estimates released on Friday by the Finance Ministry, Russia expects its additional revenue from oil and gas sales to be 393 billion rubles, or $6. 37 billion, this month. Additional budget revenues are expected at $10.66 billion (656.6 billion rubles) for the months of May and June because of the higher-than-expected oil prices, Russia said.
If oil went to $20 or $30 a barrel, that $10.66 billion would be more like $2 or $3 billion. $7 billion a month buys you a lot of bullets. Instead we are doing sanctions like they ever work.
Russia is getting economically stronger while the USA is getting weaker, and that is the point. There is going to be fatigue, and Putin is counting on that, and your buddies in Ukraine are not going to get US aid nor the money to buy said bullets with a weaker economy here. And if our economy continues to slip and the aid dries up, you can talk about their bravery all you want, but the Ukrainians are fucking doomed. But at least the orphaned children of these brave soldiers will live in a world with cooler temperatures albeit under a Russian dictator. That cooling is the theory anyway.
So you may think I am talking politics but I am actually talking about the war. In war, if resources are not managed right, failure is sure to follow.
What the hell are you talking about? Have you ever wondered why no one responds to your posts? Plan A, go suck a Russian cock and passively accept the load. Plan be, learn to speak English rather than copy and paste. I hope I've been of help.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2711786]It's a real mutha for ya! Makes you want to run from Russia! And if you look you will discover! Putin is a real muthafucka yeah! LOLOLOL!
[URL]https://youtu.be/x-f5iOHYcW4[/URL][/QUOTE]I don't know how far you want to go back Cane, but dogshit is dogshit, as is their sympathizers in the US. They will all be made to pay dearly one way or another. That's for certain.
German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) head Ingo Gerhartz told the Kiel International Seapower Symposium Germany needs nuclear weapons to use against "Putin". Gerhartz is boasting of the speed with which his Luftwaffe have deployed to Slovakia and Bulgaria and how the Ukrainian AF is using them and their US-Israeli systems to murder Russian speakers.
Der Spiegel Editor Dirk Kurbjuweit published an article directly calling for Germany to have and use nuclear weapons. Kurbjuweit believes Germany was blameless in fomenting World War One and the Jews had it coming to them.
The good news is that, when this round is over, Germany will cease to exist. The only consolation is that, if Latin America survives, those who bear ultimate responsibility, will be hunted down there as well. For me, on a personal level, it won't matter, as I and hundreds of millions of others will know what the Japanese felt like after the American terrorist attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As long as America and its satraps come crushing down as well, it is all good.
[QUOTE=Paulie97;2711763]Russia takes plenty of shit, straight up the corn hole, packed tight. We can start with the Russo Japanese War, and thourough ass whooping. Then we have the Bolchevik reaming and retreat from WW I, then there's the Nazi comprehensive beatdown that only the West could save them from, then the Cold War.[/QUOTE]You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.
[URL]https://biblicisminstitute.wordpress.com/2015/03/17/the-truth-about-the-conflict-with-russia/[/URL]
Warning: do not read -- pure, made-up conspiracy propaganda.
[QUOTE=TheCane;2711781]You left out the repeated waves of Asiatic hordes that swept across the land enslaving the populace. Why, the very word "slave" comes from "slav" LOL! A ruskie still loves drinking tea and eating Asian-style dumplings to this very day LOLOLOL![/QUOTE]The Russians kicked the Mongol's fuckin' ass. The Russians kicked their ass so bad they fled west and attacked Eastern Europe.
This is sheer jest of course. LOL.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2711798]A solider gave a lecture to a class when I was in college in the 1980's. He was captured at The Battle of the Bulge and was moved to a POW camp via a horse drawn vehicle and was fed a potato a day in POW camp. He said when he was captured he knew we had one the war. The Germans were using horses, he said, "And we were eating bread made in the USA 2 days ago flown in by aircraft. ". Point is that money matters in war.
The people who said the Russians not Americans defeated the Nazis have a point, but I had family who worked the railways in Iran during WW2, and the amount of munitions that were shipped into Russia was staggering. The Iranians never saw so much stuff in their entire lives. Many on that side of my family moved to the USA after seeing how prosperous the USA was. I know from them how brutal the Russians can be.
[/QUOTE]This is an excellent post Elvis. I know you from the Seeking Arrangements forum here. Your posts there are very thoughtful and succinct. Don't take this wrong way, but even when I agree with much of what you say about hypocrisy in Western foreign policy I have a hard time following all of your points. So yeah, the West have been idiots dealing with Russia and still are to some extent.
As far as your statement, "Point is that money matters in war. " This is very, very true. It's also important to note money isn't just represented by dollars, rubles and how much of a commodity like oil a country is pulling out of the ground. Money represents things like technology, industrial capacity, logistics and know-how. These all win wars.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2711798]A solider gave a lecture to a class when I was in college in the 1980's[/QUOTE]As far as your "solider's" anecdotes are concerned. I applaud him for service and sacrifice but, with all due respect, this ain't WW-II.
[QUOTE]I was in Pecos, Texas in 2018. Oil was not even that much. It ranged from $40 to $60 a barrel then.[/QUOTE]Your personal anecdotes are even less relevant than those from the WW-II lecture you mentioned. And quoting an exchange between a reporter and a WH press operative, really? If you think that adds credibility to an argument, I've got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
[QUOTE]Russia is getting economically stronger while the USA is getting weaker, and that is the point.[/QUOTE]That's your opinion, obviously, but how about some references to back it up? I've posted a SHIT-ton of articles citing how, while Russia can sell oil and gas, they CAN'T use that revenue to buy critical components needed for their war effort. Right now there are reports circulating that Russia is having to scavenge Sony PlayStations to find some of the microchips they need. Is that a sign of a war effort being supported by a robust economy? I think not.
[QUOTE]There is going to be fatigue, and Putin is counting on that[/QUOTE]Maybe yes, maybe no. You obviously think you can predict the future. I merely observe what's currently happening and try to extrapolate reasonable scenarios from there. As of right now, I don't see fatigue setting in. One prime example of support for Ukraine is today's historic granting of EU candidate status. That's something people would never have predicted even a few short weeks ago.
[QUOTE]So you may think I am talking politics but I am actually talking about the war.[/QUOTE]No, what you're actually talking about is your own individual opinion, which you're certainly entitled to. But you've produced no credible or persuasive evidence to advance your position. BTW, it's the exact same position that some others have expressed (albeit with more concise posts) but, unfortunately for you and the other naysayers, Ukraine continues to confound many so-called experts and exceed expectations.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2711877]German Armed Forces (Bundeswehr) head Ingo Gerhartz told the Kiel International Seapower Symposium Germany needs nuclear weapons to use against "Putin". Gerhartz is boasting of the speed with which his Luftwaffe have deployed to Slovakia and Bulgaria and how the Ukrainian AF is using them and their US-Israeli systems to murder Russian speakers.
Der Spiegel Editor Dirk Kurbjuweit published an article directly calling for Germany to have and use nuclear weapons. Kurbjuweit believes Germany was blameless in fomenting World War One and the Jews had it coming to them.
The good news is that, when this round is over, Germany will cease to exist. The only consolation is that, if Latin America survives, those who bear ultimate responsibility, will be hunted down there as well. For me, on a personal level, it won't matter, as I and hundreds of millions of others will know what the Japanese felt like after the American terrorist attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. As long as America and its satraps come crushing down as well, it is all good.[/QUOTE]As long as they continue to follow LilliPutin's trajectory, that death-spiral will continue. Right now they're having to resort to the craziest schemes to try to find soldiers (raise age limits; conscript every male, fit or unfit, in the separatist areas, etc.). Putin can't order mobilization because it would be an admission of failure.
And everyone is spitting in Little Vlad's eye! Kazakhstan, Lithuania, and now Germany! Not only does the "emperor" have no clothes, but now everyone can see what a small dick-army he has. ROTFLMAO!
As for you, who cares? Certainly not anyone in this forum, except maybe for your schmegegge-twin. But, on second thought, (like you) he probably only cares about himself.
P.S. Congratulations to Ukraine on achieving EU candidate status, defying expectations and against all odds!
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2711907]You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.[/QUOTE]You replied to confirms me in my belief that no American should be allowed into Europe (or anywhere else) on any pretext. The poor thing, in its ignorance, attacks the Bolsheviks for pulling out of WW1. The pity is that all others did not too and let the top brass get on with it. The Americans, filth that they are, came lately in both wars just to rob what they could.
Hopefully, beginning with the obliteration of Lithuania, the Yanks will get payback for Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and the firebombing of Tokyo, to say nothing of the overdue bills on Vietnam and Korea). The old saying, don't pick up a weapon if you are not prepared to use it, applies to nukes as well. Hopefully, the Yanks like the smell of nuclear mushroom clouds in the morning. Let them wonder if it smells like victory.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2712056]You replied to confirms me in my belief that no American should be allowed into Europe (or anywhere else) on any pretext. The poor thing, in its ignorance, attacks the Bolsheviks for pulling out of WW1. The pity is that all others did not too and let the top brass get on with it. The Americans, filth that they are, came lately in both wars just to rob what they could.
Hopefully, beginning with the obliteration of Lithuania, the Yanks will get payback for Hiroshima and Nagasaki (and the firebombing of Tokyo, to say nothing of the overdue bills on Vietnam and Korea). The old saying, don't pick up a weapon if you are not prepared to use it, applies to nukes as well. Hopefully, the Yanks like the smell of nuclear mushroom clouds in the morning. Let them wonder if it smells like victory.[/QUOTE]Shall we call you a WAAAH-mbulance?
What's truly hilarious is that, no matter how much you post about your Russian propaganda wet-dreams, reality keeps marching merrily along, laughing at you and farting in your face as it passes you by.
[QUOTE=WyattEarp;2712033]This is an excellent post Elvis.[/QUOTE]This twerp chases down every conspiracy theory that comes down the pike, from Covid to stolen election nonsense. For you to hit your knees is an embarrassment, but hit it Bro, and be sure to swallow the cum when you're finished. What servile wuss.
To begin with, I'm certainly not an expert on nuclear deterrence, but I have lived through the Cold War years, with fallout shelters, duck and cover drills, and all that.
So feel free to correct me if I make any substantially incorrect statements, but it's my understanding that both the US and Russia have enough nuclear capability to obliterate the other. Sure, there might be survivors in remote areas or in hardened shelters, but (if either side desired it) they could destroy pretty much everything that made the other's society viable. I don't know if the terminology has changed, but I recall that being described as Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD).
Also, as I understand it, a significant portion of each side's nuclear arsenal is either mobile (submarine, ship, aircraft) or housed in facilities that would be resistant to being taken out in a first strike. I'm sure there might be other retaliative capabilities, but those are all I need to make my point.
And the point is simply this: Neither side can know with certainty that: a) The other side wouldn't respond; and, b) The other side couldn't respond. They might think the probability is low, or high, or something in between, but they can't know for sure.
So let's assume there are people on both sides who are more hawkish than others. Let's say Russia has some hawks who might be willing to risk launching a first strike. Well, at the moment of launch, it becomes irrelevant how many hawks are on the US side because retaliation becomes a defensive imperative. In other words, the reasons for not launching a first-strike pretty much disappear when you're retaliating against an attacker. And, unless a Russian (or US) hawk can guarantee they can take out each and every nuclear-capable asset of the other, they've essentially condemned both sides to the same fate.
Let's take it one step further. Assume there are some intelligent people in the chain of command on both sides. It's my argument that, for those people, an order to launch a first strike, when your own existence is not being threatened, is the same as an order to kill your own family, hometown, and society. Faced with such an order, why wouldn't the intelligent person refuse to comply? Even if threatened with death, they're dead either way. My personal response would be something like, "If you want to destroy humanity, and our country, I can't stop you. But I'm not going to be the one to do it!" and there's no incentive I can think of that would change that calculus. And this isn't something you can practice. Sure, you can have drills and readiness exercises, but nothing prepares people for the real thing as it's like putting a gun against your own head (and the head of your wife, kids, etc.) AND pulling the trigger when you really want to continue living.
While there's no way to know for sure, there's a huge uncertainty when it comes to the human factor if a first-strike order was to be given. And it's that very uncertainty that is woven throughout the fabric of MAD.
Ah, but what about tactical nukes? There's certainly an argument that can be made about differences there. But what if one tactical nuke is responded to with another, and then a tit-for-tat ensues that leads to escalation and back to the MAD scenario? Once again, uncertainty rears its ugly head.
And isn't uncertainty therefore the fundamental problem that no amount of bravado and chest-thumping (or planning) can overcome? It doesn't matter how big or strong or loud (or clever) someone is, playing Russian Roulette with a gun that has all cylinders full will still have the predictable result. But wait, do we know for sure how many bullets are in the gun? Answer: No, we don't. And there's no way we can know with certainty. Are you still willing to pull that trigger?
I'll close with that, and open the floor to debate. Although I'm sure there will be some who won't be interested in rational debate. But that's to be expected.
[QUOTE=Golfinho;2711907]You poor thing, you can't comprehend. Russia refused to back down and fought the Japanese: win or lose, they fought. A contrast to globohomo that has the balls to take on primitive countries by dropping bombs on them and still can't win a war, so now they use proxies to do their fighting.[/QUOTE]Back down from what, you ignoramus? Russia was so confident that Japanese "wouldn't dare" that Nicolas promised to pelt them with Russian hats. Not unlike the current tsar, he tried to raise Russian nationalism by taking on a supposedly weaker opponent. That arrogance eventually ended in a cellar of a private house in Siberia with him and all his family buchered by bolsheviks.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2711559]2 Interesting books look back at Ukraine's Past.
[URL]https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250116253/inthemidstofcivilizedeurope[/URL]
"Between 1918 and 1921, over a hundred thousand Jews were murdered in Ukraine by peasants, townsmen, and soldiers who blamed the Jews for the turmoil of the Russian Revolution. In hundreds of separate incidents, ordinary people robbed their Jewish neighbors with impunity, burned down their houses, ripped apart their Torah scrolls, sexually assaulted them, and killed them. Largely forgotten today, these pogromsethnic riotsdominated headlines and international affairs in their time. Aid workers warned that six million Jews were in danger of complete extermination. Twenty years later, these dire predictions would come true.
Drawing upon long-neglected archival materials, including thousands of newly discovered witness testimonies, trial records, and official orders, acclaimed historian Jeffrey Veidlinger shows for the first time how this wave of genocidal violence created the conditions for the Holocaust".
The other Historian [URL]https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/05/02/the-historian-whitewashing-ukraines-past-volodymyr-viatrovych/[/URL].
The Historian Whitewashing Ukraine's Past.
Volodymyr Viatrovych is erasing the country's racist and bloody history stripping pogroms and ethnic cleansing from the official archives.
There you have it, both sides of the History of Ukraine.
In the meantime in Israel "This week, the veteran right-wing journalist Andrew Neil tweeted "Israel fails to stand up for Ukraine. Reluctant to impose sanctions Stayed silent after Russian airstrike near Babi Yar memorial, where German Nazis killed tens of thousands of Jews in WW2". [URL]https://inews.co.uk/opinion/israel-failing-ukraine-welcoming-putins-friends-actions-cannot-be-ignored-[/URL].[/QUOTE]So their ancestors did some truly shitty things 100 years ago. Let me give you a hand here. It wasn't the first time. Bogdan Khmelnitsky and his hordes massacred Jews as far back as in 16th century.
And Ukrainians did it again during the WW2.
So your point being is what? That they deserve what's coming to them now, in 2022?
What's your take on today's Germany?
First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.
Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.
I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.
A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .
What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.
[URL]https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/finally-german-mps-back-heavy-weapons-for-ukraine-in-historic-vote[/URL]
So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??
Here's what some commentators in Israel are saying "The prime minister's 'neutrality' in the Russian war against Ukraine is outrageous" [URL]https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-703432[/URL].
And Zelensky who also has family in Israel singled out Israel. . [URL]https://www.jta.org/2022/06/23/global/zelensky-singles-out-israel-for-refusing-to-join-international-sanctions-against-russia[/URL].
LOL. You do not get it. The American POW knew Germany had lost the war because they had no money. That is just as applicable today as then.
Here are the facts. Oil has gone up in price since the invasion. The Russian ruble is stronger than it was before the invasion, and Russia is exporting as much oil as before the invasion. A press release came out and said that USA oil production was the highest ever under the Biden administration. That is a good sign right? Uh, no, peak production was 12.9 million BPD under Trump and is 11.5 now. Under the Biden administration, that amount of oil produced is the most that has been produced. It is not the most the USA has ever produced. Cute eh?
Matt Taibbi is one writer I trust who worked in Russia in the 90's. He thought Putin was a tin pot brutal dictator long before anyone else. Back then, when he tried to write articles about how Russia was recirculating its dictators, no one would publish the article. If he wrote an article about how well Democracy was working in Russia, everyone would publish it. Point is I do not expect any press articles about the sanctions in the Western Press except saying how great they are working. I saw a pictorial / video of the McDonald's being re-opened in Russia under a new name in the WSJ, and it does not look like the Russians are hurting exactly because of the sanctions.
Fentanyl is illegal in the USA, and China has a history of making it and the government said they would crack down on said production, yet it is still being sold, and USA deaths from it have never been higher. What critical components these days are not made or could not be made in China? And do you think China is really not going to sell the Russians what they need? Chips are not a good example because they are in short supply everywhere.
EU Candidate status? Really? That sounds meaningless. I am reading stuff like this.
Biden said he "knew we had data to sustain" that Russian President Vladimir Putin "was going to go in, off the border."
"There was no doubt, and Zelensky didn't want to hear it, nor did a lot of people," Biden said, according to Bloomberg. "I understand why they didn't want to hear it, but Putin went in."
Ukrainian officials, however, rejected Biden's account.
End of quote. That sounds like typical pol finger pointing when things are not going well.
As for my POV, my question is where? Show me anyone who said you win the war in Ukraine by drilling for more oil in Texas? If America produces more oil and the price goes down, we have more money and Russia has less. That is a much more effective way to hurt Russia than sanctions.
I do not know enough about what is really going on in the negotiations to have an opinion on if there is a realistic settlement offer on the table to stop but my preference would be the war stop ASAP. I think Ukraine winning this war as some pols have said is not realistic. My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have. My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.
If you read David Ben Gurion's (real name of Israel's founder is David Grün) autobiography, you will see the founder of Israel, a war criminal by any definition, stating it was he and his fellow Jewish thugs who attacked Poles in an area with no anti-Semitism. The founders of Israel's (Mandate Palestine's) Irgun had 30,000+ armies of Jewish fascists in pre war Poland. Their leaders were trained by Mussolini's Italy.
Get your facts on Israel some way right. The 1st Galician SS, drawn from Western Ukraine, were so bloody in killing Jews they shocked the SS.
As did the Croats, whom you praise. They slaughtered the Serbs. The same Serbs. Your USAF bombed relentlessly for months on end.
You are ignorant on all that as you draw your sources from the Atlantic and similar tainted sites. You and it are part of the reason no American should be allowed in Europe, except as an exhibit in a zoo.
As regards the monkey Zelensky who plays the piano with his penis, his shelf life shortens by the day as the heroic Russian forces make further advances. English folk are at the Glastonbury Music Festival June 22-26. Instead of music, they have to listen to that idiot. Then they wonder why no minority groups go there.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2712298] I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.
A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .
What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.
[URL]https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/finally-german-mps-back-heavy-weapons-for-ukraine-in-historic-vote[/URL].[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2712298]First things First, I am a fucking monger not a Political Analyst or Military Expert. Found my way to this thread as there's Fuck All Mongering in Ukraine following Putin's Invasion.
Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.
I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.[/QUOTE]Well, now you know. There are no innocents when it comes to atrocities against Jews in Eastern Europe. In almost every country occupied by the Nazis during the WW2, the local population was more than happy to join in on the fun. Ukraine, Poland, Romania, Hungary, Russia, you name it.
The question is if your history lessons are applicable to contemporary Ukraine.
The answer any sane person would come up with IMHO. No, they aren't. Today's Ukrainians have nothing to do with it.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2712298]A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
And who are better to inform us of all people, than reading what Jewish & Israeli Historians had to say? .[/QUOTE]Well, I would take an issue with "vast majority" but yes, a lot of Poles remain deeply anti-Semitic. Ukraine also used to be very anti-Semitic during the Soviet times, but times have changed. 73% Ukrainians did vote for a Jewish President. That accounts for something. Hey, you don't have to be a Pole or Ukrainian to be a vicious anti-Semite. Look at our own Merdo Immorales, what else do you need?
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2712298]What have I got to do with Germany! IF its to do with sanctions and aid, reading sources reveals, Germany has done much more than Israel.[/QUOTE]It has everything to do with Germany. If you believe that Ukrainians must be held responsible for the atrocities committed 80-100 years ago, then how come you don't treat today's Germans with the same contempt? They did murder 6 million Jews after all.
So my question is DO YOU PERSONALLY BELIEVE that Ukraine must be held responsible for something that happened back then.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2712298]So what's your take on Israel's refusal to apply sanctions against Russia??[/QUOTE]Israel is in a difficult position. It's a tiny nation completely surrounded by enemies. Russia has troops stationed in Syria, and it could make life incredibly difficult to Israel. And not in terms of gas prices, mind you, but the blood of Israeli citizens. If there is one country on Earth that has legitimate reasons to avoid being pulled into this conflict, that's Israel.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2712322] My point was not to pick a side though clearly you have.[/QUOTE]Uh, yeah. I've picked the side who are having their country invaded, their civilians killed, their women raped, and their children kidnapped and sent to Russia. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Hope you're nice and comfy in your La-Z-Boy as it seems your morality meter is apparently immune to such atrocities. And I'd point out that "atrocities" isn't my own personal assessment, but rather the consensus of many human rights organizations and a host of nations that have already gone on record as calling Russia's actions genocide.
[URL]https://www.justsecurity.org/81564/compilation-of-countries-statements-calling-Russian-actions-in-Ukraine-genocide/[/URL]
If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.
[QUOTE]My point was to say if you are going to fight this war, this is how you win it, and what should be done is not being done. Period.[/QUOTE]And my counter-point is that ALL you've offered is purely PERSONAL opinion, nothing more. Period. Are you a military expert? Are you referencing the analyses of any credible experts? All I've seen is a 40+ year old anecdote from a WW-II vet which, in your OPINION, is the key to understanding the current conflict. There's so much wrong with that pseudo-argument that it boggles the mind.
But, as I responded to your earlier mindlessly meandering post (the one without the fentanyl and Matt Taibi references), you're perfectly entitled to your own OPINION, as is every other poster in this forum. What you're not entitled to, and what I'll call you out on every time, is pretending that it's anything else.
BTW, I would also like the war to stop ASAP. I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.
Same goal, different opinion about how to get there.
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2712298]
Trying to educate myself about the country which I really liked since 2009 especially the Hot Blondies. I started reading about its history. The links and articles which sounded credible and informative, I posted them here for reference.
I never knew Ukraine had such a tainted black history of killing Jews!! As I always thought it was The Russians. And I also discovered by reading Israeli sources that Jew hating goes back a long time "Yes, Poles Imbibed anti-Semitism With Their Mothers' Milk.
A vast majority of Poles and others remain haters of the Jewish people, but some Israeli politicians, diplomats and Holocaust researchers are foolishly saying they're shocked by this 'generalization'.
[/QUOTE]In fairness to the Poles, as their lands were designated as primary part of the Pale of Settlement, they were forced into closest proximity of these people, and while they endured the sufferance inflicted upon them, a peoples' forebearance and rectitude could only be expected to go so far.
As for Ukrainians, missing from the current conversation is any mention of the Hiwis. How in the world could the nazis have managed the camps without their indispensable Ukrainian helpers? Many of whom post-war resettled to Canada or became industrial workers in Ohio. Given that a number of the mercenary freedom fighters in Ukraine currently hail from Canada you can readily imagine what wonderful stories from their grandparents they grew up on.
A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.
No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!
Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.
There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.
Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.
As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.
[URL]https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-politics/religious-extremism-is-a-greater-threat-than-nuclear-iran[/URL]
And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.
Sowing the seeds for more conflicts [URL]https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-03-27/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israeli-settlers-grim-offer-to-ukraines-jewish-refugees/00000180-5ba2-dc66-a392-7ffb49550000[/URL].
[QUOTE=Jojosun;2712662]A very toxic and controversial subject, But here we go.
No sane person holds Ukraine responsible for anything, if anything they are the victims of an occupation, Where did you get that contempt feel towards Ukraine in my posts from!
Germany of today isn't Nazi Germany either. Thousands of Jewish Ukrainian Refugees chose Germany as a home. Thousands of Young forward looking Israelis also reside in Germany.
There are many brave voices in Israel who touch the untouchables in The West by discussing and researching history and examining records.
Ever heard of David Fisher and his Film, The Round Figure, re 6 Million, at The Jerusalem Film Festival?.
As for Our Best Friend and I mean it, The small nation with More than 200 Nuclear heads and an Air Force one of best in the world, its main Enemy is within and its called, Religious Extremism.
[URL]https://www.jpost.com/diplomacy-and-politics/religious-extremism-is-a-greater-threat-than-nuclear-iran[/URL]
And the irony is one of it's present leaders is Called Bezalel Smotrich whose roots go back to The town, Smotrich in Ukraine.
Sowing the seeds for more conflicts [URL]https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-03-27/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israeli-settlers-grim-offer-to-ukraines-jewish-refugees/00000180-5ba2-dc66-a392-7ffb49550000[/URL].[/QUOTE]The links to David Fisher and his Film The Round Number. " David Fisher was born to Joseph Fischer (born in Romania) and Mali (born in Ukraine), both Holocaust survivors".
[URL]https://www.timesofisrael.com/a-new-israeli-film-tackles-the-taboo-did-six-million-jews-die-in-the-holocaust/[/URL]
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2712403]Uh, yeah. I've picked the side who are having their country invaded, their civilians killed, their women raped, and their children kidnapped and sent to Russia. Seems like a no-brainer to me.[/QUOTE]Yeah, the good guy-bad guy narrative is too easy for me. Usually when there is a fight both parties could have stopped it, but your story prompted me to go look at what the Russian side was so thank you for that.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2712403]Hope you're nice and comfy in your La-Z-Boy as it seems your morality meter is apparently immune to such atrocities. And I'd point out that "atrocities" isn't my own personal assessment, but rather the consensus of many human rights organizations and a host of nations that have already gone on record as calling Russia's actions genocide.[/QUOTE]I am more of a couch guy and am comfortable as can be. Sorry, my morality meter does not kick in unless the good guys are being killed and I am not sure there are any good guys yet. Are these the same "experts" who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation or was a new crew employed this time to say how awful Putin was?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2712403]If you personally don't give a shit about such things, that's your fucking problem. I have ZERO doubts that I've picked the correct side. And people who feign a faux-neutrality are moral pygmies who make me want to puke. They're the same people who would stand by, even if strong enough to help, while an old lady gets mugged right in front of them by some street thug.[/QUOTE]Helpless little old lady? Nah, it turns out Biden and the Ukrainians were not as helpless and innocent as that. Later on, you asked a question if I am a military expert? And I am not. That ranks us up there with having to be a biologist to know what a woman is, but it shows the point. If I am on your side, then I can be anything, but if I am neutral based on a lack of understanding of both sides, well that ranks up there with being a stupid coward.
You should know both sides of the conflict: give me both sides perspective and then say why yours is right. Instead, you went with name calling and shaming. That tells me there are issues with your POV you do not want to talk about.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2712403]All I've seen is a 40+ year old anecdote from a WW-II vet which, in your OPINION, is the key to understanding the current conflict. There's so much wrong with that pseudo-argument that it boggles the mind.[/QUOTE]Sorry, guy, you are just making stuff up. If you want me to go to war, you have to show me you are all in. I am not going to war when our government has policies that enrich the enemy shooting at me Fuck that. With Biden putting climate change above oil production and enriching Putin and hurting us, you lost me. That you acted hostile when I said that made it doubly bad.
The USA has a great history when it goes all in on a war. When it goes in half ass, trouble always follows. If you had said during World War 2, you did not want companies drilling for oil because of what it does to the planet, you would have gotten your ass kicked. The entire notion that Putin is bad but climate change is worse tells me this is not a real war where our way of life is threatened, not at all.
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2712403]I simply believe the fastest way to stop this war, and the likelihood of future aggression, is to kill as many Russian combatants as possible, and blow up as much Russian war machinery as possible.
[/QUOTE]Yeah, you lost me there. If you feel that way, you should get out of your Lazy-Boy, pick up a gun and go fight. You think war is like going to a UFC fight where you cheer on your favorite.
Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.
Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.
The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.
Russia has a no first strike priviso. Rusaisa should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.
This article is from the WSJ, which is usually paywalled. But this link is from the author's Twitter feed and should give you a readable version. When I opened it on my phone, I got a couple of "subscribe now" boxes but I was able to close them and keep reading.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-far-do-putins-imperial-ambitions-go-11656085978?st=p5px4obeu0ixbgv&reflink=share_mobilewebshare[/URL]
Here are some quotes:
"At a ceremony honoring young geographers in 2016, President Vladimir Putin asked one boy about the capital of Burkina Faso and then quizzed another about where Russia's borders end. At the Bering Strait with the United States," the 9-year-old boy ventured hesitantly. Mr. Putin, who chairs the board of the Russian Geographic Society, contradicted the boy to triumphant applause. "The borders of Russia," he pronounced, "never end".
"Earlier this month, Mr. Putin said that he views Ukraine as just the first step, with many other territories potential targets".
The article then raises the possibility that Putin, rather than lowering his ambitions because of his military's underperformance in Ukraine, might be motivated to double down on his aggression.
"Yet it is precisely the embarrassing setbacks in Ukraine that may push Mr. Putin to expand the conflict, cautioned Marat Gelman, an opposition politician who once advised the Russian president and served as a senior executive for Russian state TV. "There is a threat to his ratings inside the country. He cannot explain to Russian citizens why the great army that he has been expanding and financing all this time cannot deal with the Ukrainian resistance," Mr. Gelman said. "So he needs to turn everything into a new dimension, where he is at war not with Ukraine but with the entire world. Therefore, there is a danger that he will choose another victim. " A broader conflict, Mr. Gelman said, could justify mobilizing civilians into the military and removing the few civil liberties that still exist in Russia".
"Putin's imperial ambitions have grown over time because his previous acts of territorial aggression went largely unchallenged. The 2008 invasion of Georgia wasn't sanctioned in any serious way and was followed by President Barack Obama's attempt at a "reset" with Moscow. The 2014 intervention in Donbas and annexation of Crimea during Mr. Obama's second term prompted only halfhearted sanctions. Until last February, Germany pushed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project that would have allowed Russia's gas exports to bypass Ukraine. Up until April, the USA And its allies refused to provide Kyiv with the heavy weapons that could have deterred this year's war".
"Putin simply does what he can get away with, like a hooligan," said Mikhail Kasyanov, a Russian opposition politician who served as Mr. Putin's prime minister from 2000 to 2004. "If he is allowed to conquer some territories and Europe and the USA End up swallowing that fact, he will simply keep going forward".
There's more in the article, like discussions of Russia's history of brutal conquests, but hopefully the above quotes convey the gist of the argument.
One point this reinforces for me is that any peace proposal that doesn't take into account Putin's own statements of intent (along with the hardliners in Russia), and his past record of false peace phase, followed by a pause, followed by a new aggression phase, is fatally flawed.
My personal conclusion: While the most effective method of defeating it is certainly open to debate, Putin-perialism must absolutely be defeated in order for any meaningful peace to be achieved.
I am not siding with either Ukraine or Russia, but it is pretty clear that the Western media has put together the innocent Ukrainians and evil Russians / Putin narrative. I had used google to look for an explanation and was frustrated. I realized that search engine was the problem and once I used a new one, I got the link below. Again, I am not sure how much of this is truth and how much is propaganda. What I do know is anyone who has even attempted to justify Russia's invasion has had their microphone taken away. I will say after Ukrainegate and Russiagate I was very suspicious that Putin was provoked into action. It does not justify what he did but the claims of innocence are hard to buy. IMO it is very rare a fight like this happens between a good and bad guy. It is typically more like between two bad guys.
[URL]https://mronline.org/2022/06/23/is-the-west-finally-realizing-that-russia-will-win-the-war-in-ukraine/[/URL]
This article is the fourth in a series of articles I have written covering the US proxy war against Russia in Ukraine. While this civil war in Ukraine actually began 8 years ago in 2014, the Western media narrative has portrayed this conflict as an unprovoked invasion by Russia that began on February 24,2022. The 8 year civil war in the Donbass Region is a direct result of the US backed coup and color revolution known as the Maidan Revolution, that ousted the democratically elected President Viktor Yanukovych and installed an ultra-nationalist, anti-Russian, Nazi government.
The coup government was rejected by the majority ethnic Russian population in the eastern and southern regions of Ukraine, who had supported Yanukovych. The result was protests throughout eastern Ukraine and Odessa in the south. The Russian speaking population understood that they would experience harsh persecution under the new, anti-Russian government. On May 2, 2014 in Odessa, protesters took refuge in the Odessa Trade Union Hall trying to escape the attacks of Neo-Nazi vigilantes, who then set the building on fire. Forty-eight protesters were either burned alive or died jumping out of the building. No one was ever prosecuted for the Odessa Massacre.
Crimea voted to secede and was annexed into Russia. Donetsk and Lugansk became breakaway provinces thus leaving Ukraine, but were soon invaded by Ukrainian Nazis who refused to give up the region. Western media rarely acknowledged the huge civilian death toll in eastern Ukraine.
Minsk 1 (September 5, 2014) and Minsk 2 (February 12,2015) Peace Agreements contained a ceasefire and were ratified by the United Nations with Ukraine, Russia, Germany and France as signers. The agreement called for the breakaway provinces to be reabsorbed into Ukraine, but receive regional autonomy which essentially meant the right to use the Russian language. The 2014 coup government outlawed the use of the Russian language in media and schools. For the agreement to be finalized it required that the leaders of the Ukrainian government had to negotiate the terms with the leaders of Donetsk and Lugansk. Negotiations never happened, nor was the ceasefire even honored by Nazi paramilitaries. On February 13,2015, Minsk 2 was immediately rejected by the Right Sector leader, Dimitri Yarosh, who vowed to keep fighting. The rocket shellings of the Donbass by Nazis continued for almost 8 years resulting in 14,000 mostly civilian deaths.
The United States had endorsed the Minsk Agreements and Obama was reluctant to supply Ukraine with weapons. This changed under Trump who was convinced to sell arms to Ukraine to prove he wasn't Putin's puppet. Zelensky was elected in 2019 by 73% of Ukrainians because he ran as the peace candidate, stating that he would implement Minsk 2. US media hardly acknowledged this fact, and focused on Trump's phone call to Zelensky regarding investigating Hunter Biden and Burisma, after he temporarily withheld a weapons shipment to Ukraine. Zelensky received death threats, over his goal to implement the Minsk agreement, in an interview with the Right Sector (a Nazi Party) leader, Dimitri Yarosh, who said "he will hang on some tree on Khreshchatyk if he betrays Ukraine and those people who died in the Revolution and the War. " Zelensky was powerless to achieve the goal of peace without strong backing from the United States, which instead was more interested in arming and training a proxy force to fight Russia.
The Biden Administration took things to new level in 2021 by sending more weapons and giving special forces training to Ukrainian Nazi paramilitaries. In April 2021, Zelensky said he was not going to honor the Minsk 2 Agreement and was planning to retake the breakaway regions and Crimea by force. The US created this war by preparing Ukrainian forces for the invasion.
OSCE (Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe) reports show ceasefire violations, the majority by Ukrainian forces, increased from 57 on February 14,2022 to 1,927 on February 21,2022. It was an invasion by Ukraine on Donetsk and Lugansk that caused Russia to intervene on February 24,2022. Putin described it as a "peacekeeping mission. " Certainly the people and soldiers of the DPR and LPR were glad the Russians finally intervened. Over 150,000 Ukrainian troops were lined up west of the line of contact, about to fight 31,000 mostly volunteer soldiers of the DPR and LPR. It would have been a genocide had Russia not intervened. Russia had multiple reasons to finally intervene, including protecting Crimea and preventing Ukraine from joining NATO, which would have led to nuclear missile bases on its borders.
I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.
[QUOTE=MamaGuevos;2712808]I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.[/QUOTE]This thread has been hijacked by a real ASSet.
[QUOTE=Elvis2008;2712781]Yeah, the good guy-bad guy narrative is too easy for me.[/QUOTE]Yeah, looks like that's your problem with a lot of things. I guess it doesn't bother you that the ONLY people in the world who would even think to characterize the Russians as having any shred of justification are the propaganda mongers themselves and the trolls who parrot their BS. Which one are you?
[QUOTE]Sorry, my morality meter does not kick in[/QUOTE]Yes, with this post you've made it abundantly clear that you have none.
[QUOTE]Are these the same "experts" who said Hunter Biden's laptop was Russian disinformation[/QUOTE]Wow, you really are the master of the non sequitur, aren't you? Since you're asking, maybe these are the experts who gave fentanyl to Matt Taibbi, since your earlier posts demonstrated your bizarre infatuation with such irrelevancies.
[QUOTE] With Biden putting climate change above oil production and enriching Putin and hurting us, you lost me.[/QUOTE]Yeah, I think you were lost a long time ago. But I bet you'd kill it over in the American Politics thread, since you and Pedro M are basically two sides of the same inane coin.
[QUOTE]You think war is like going to a UFC fight where you cheer on your favorite.[/QUOTE]No, I think war is like war, with people killing and being killed. And, while it's not always possible to discern the good from the bad, sometimes it's quite easy. For example, on September 1st, 1939, Hitler invaded Poland. The US had no problem recognizing who the bad guy was because naked aggression made it clear. And the US, even with the existence of Neutrality Acts passed in the 1930's, figured out ways to help. We didn't go to war ourselves until Pearl Harbor, but we were already involved by virtue of our support. Had we not given it, we'd probably all be speaking German right now.
BTW, nowhere have I EVER suggested the US needs to, or should, be directly involved in the conflict. The Ukrainians are doing quite well. They just need the continuing support of countries that, unlike you, have figured out that Putin is the bad guy here. If you like him so much, feel free to move to Russia and let us know how that works out for you.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2712782]Russia is giving Belarus Iskander-M missiles capable of carrying nuclear loads. Unless Lithuania surrenders the Suwalki Gap, Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.
Romania, like Finland and Sweden, have learned before it is too late.
The British and Americans are driving all this madness. If it takes nuclear weapons to stop it, fair enough. Little Baltic and Polish monkeys must pay, as must their organ grinders. A pity it has come to this but fuck it all, enough is enough.
Russia has a no first strike priviso. Russia should renounce that. Or just get on with it and wipe the Baltics and Poland off the face of the earth as opening salvos.[/QUOTE][URL]http://www.internationalsexguide.nl/forum/showthread.php?4028-Stupid-Shit-in-Kyiv&p=2712127&viewfull=1#post2712127[/URL]
Which is, very simply, that there is no way to know with certainty that any use of nukes could be contained. Any strike would provoke a response. And sub-launched nukes (to name just one platform) would be difficult or impossible to defend against.
A couple for Moscow, a couple for St. Petersburg, one for Vladivostok, a few others here and there, and Russia would be a stone-age skating rink.
And that means, if Putin follows your advice, you and everyone you know might be dead or, if unfortunate enough to survive, as good as dead.
But that's fine, I'd expect as much from a pathetic schmegegge-troll.
[QUOTE=MamaGuevos;2712808]I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.[/QUOTE]And that's because this is where all the Stupid Shit that may not be directly mongering-related ends up. If you're looking for specific hooker recommendations, you're in the wrong place and should check out the specific city threads instead.
Also, it's a bit odd that you're so quick to criticize political discussions yet, in the same post, you have no problem talking about anti-Semitism and Jewish presidents. I would respectfully suggest that's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?
[QUOTE=Jmsuttr;2712783]This article is from the WSJ, which is usually paywalled. But this link is from the author's Twitter feed and should give you a readable version. When I opened it on my phone, I got a couple of "subscribe now" boxes but I was able to close them and keep reading.
[URL]https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-far-do-putins-imperial-ambitions-go-11656085978?st=p5px4obeu0ixbgv&reflink=share_mobilewebshare[/URL]
Here are some quotes:
"At a ceremony honoring young geographers in 2016, President Vladimir Putin asked one boy about the capital of Burkina Faso and then quizzed another about where Russia's borders end. At the Bering Strait with the United States," the 9-year-old boy ventured hesitantly. Mr. Putin, who chairs the board of the Russian Geographic Society, contradicted the boy to triumphant applause. "The borders of Russia," he pronounced, "never end".
"Earlier this month, Mr. Putin said that he views Ukraine as just the first step, with many other territories potential targets".
The article then raises the possibility that Putin, rather than lowering his ambitions because of his military's underperformance in Ukraine, might be motivated to double down on his aggression.
"Yet it is precisely the embarrassing setbacks in Ukraine that may push Mr. Putin to expand the conflict, cautioned Marat Gelman, an opposition politician who once advised the Russian president and served as a senior executive for Russian state TV. "There is a threat to his ratings inside the country. He cannot explain to Russian citizens why the great army that he has been expanding and financing all this time cannot deal with the Ukrainian resistance," Mr. Gelman said. "So he needs to turn everything into a new dimension, where he is at war not with Ukraine but with the entire world. Therefore, there is a danger that he will choose another victim. " A broader conflict, Mr. Gelman said, could justify mobilizing civilians into the military and removing the few civil liberties that still exist in Russia".
"Putin's imperial ambitions have grown over time because his previous acts of territorial aggression went largely unchallenged. The 2008 invasion of Georgia wasn't sanctioned in any serious way and was followed by President Barack Obama's attempt at a "reset" with Moscow. The 2014 intervention in Donbas and annexation of Crimea during Mr. Obama's second term prompted only halfhearted sanctions. Until last February, Germany pushed the Nord Stream 2 pipeline project that would have allowed Russia's gas exports to bypass Ukraine. Up until April, the USA And its allies refused to provide Kyiv with the heavy weapons that could have deterred this year's war".
"Putin simply does what he can get away with, like a hooligan," said Mikhail Kasyanov, a Russian opposition politician who served as Mr. Putin's prime minister from 2000 to 2004. "If he is allowed to conquer some territories and Europe and the USA End up swallowing that fact, he will simply keep going forward".
There's more in the article, like discussions of Russia's history of brutal conquests, but hopefully the above quotes convey the gist of the argument.
One point this reinforces for me is that any peace proposal that doesn't take into account Putin's own statements of intent (along with the hardliners in Russia), and his past record of false peace phase, followed by a pause, followed by a new aggression phase, is fatally flawed.
My personal conclusion: While the most effective method of defeating it is certainly open to debate, Putin-perialism must absolutely be defeated in order for any meaningful peace to be achieved.[/QUOTE]Russia may win the battle, but Putin has already lost the war.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2712782]Lithuania must be nuked. And Poland too if those beggars don't STFU. The three Baltic states could be taken out with 1 nuke, 2 max. Poland would take 3-4 max. That would leave plenty for London and the USA.[/QUOTE]Pedro should be banned permanently.
And Morales too if he doesn't STFU.
[QUOTE=TConor;2712834]Russia may win the battle, but Putin has already lost the war.[/QUOTE]Nope, at $5-7 a gallon Putin is winning. As usual Ukraine will lose because of corruption and greed. They were winning, but there leadership was too stupid to make a deal.
Stop reading the NYT and WP for a start. There are alternative American sources available but you have to dig for them.
Almost all Americans posting here are semi literate low life with no sense of self. Look at the American Politics thread which is as incoherent as POTUS Biden and as incontinent as his ass. They do serve the purpose of tel; ling us most American mongers / tourists should be avoided.
The moderator's problem is where to allow all the American crazies shoot off without jamming up the site overall. The Crazy Shit threads help him a lot in that regard but it is really pushing shit uphill.
As regards sexual services, folk have bigger things afoot now. Though many women now have to do what women have to do, there are all kinds of extra risks involved.
That said, there is a famous account of a Japanese banker in Germany in Weimar of the hyper inflation. Sex for (inflation adjusted) pennies / pfennig.
The Ukrainian gangsters are being kept artificially afloat by massive EU / US suibventions. When that ends and Zelenskystan is a Bosnian style rump state, you will get all the sex you like from the surviving Nazis for pennies.
If you don't mind getting in line behind the Germans who are suffering a lot as they have no seasonal Ukrainian workers to pick their fruits and vegetables.
Give the EU the far side of winter and there will be plenty of cheap picking all across it, if you don't mind nuclear fall out, that is.
[QUOTE=MamaGuevos;2712808]I have been reading this thread faithfully because it is a different view of the war that one gets in the NY Times of the Washington Post. However, to be honest guys, this is the wrong forum for these debates.
The ISG is about getting sex, generally paid sex. Historically, prostitution has flourished in wars (as have brutal forms of sexual assault). If you want to argue politics, and you want people to pay attention, try another web site. But if you tell us about P4P and other forms of sexual intimacy in this war situation, you will be telling us something really novel.
I am not taking sides here (although I admit to having strong feelings about the war as well as the long history of antisemitism in Ukraine despite a Jewish president). I just think contributions about getting laid would be far more interesting here and your long discourses about politics are a waste of your time.[/QUOTE]
Is only about 35 km, well within artillery range. Though the A4 could accommodate Russian heavy equipment, there are some low lying hills that would make a good defensive position of sorts. All in all, liberating Lithuania. Again - would be little more than a field exercise.
Either way, Lithuania's goose is cooked and the Polish paupers will be next.
Awful what horrible things happen to people who listen to American propaganda.
The bigger game is that America and its British messenger boy must be destroyed. The only other alternative is for France, Germany, Italy and Romania to get rid of their autocrats, tell Zelensky to go fuck himself in Israel and try to build Europe anew.
I don't know what America, Epstein etc have on the French, Germans etc but it must be some seriously sick shit. Vilnius is easy. They just want to make money by pimping their young boys out to American GIs. But the others, God knows.
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2712976]Is only about 35 km, well within artillery range. Though the A4 could accommodate Russian heavy equipment, there are some low lying hills that would make a good defensive position of sorts. All in all, liberating Lithuania. Again - would be little more than a field exercise.
Either way, Lithuania's goose is cooked and the Polish paupers will be next.
Awful what horrible things happen to people who listen to American propaganda.
The bigger game is that America and its British messenger boy must be destroyed. The only other alternative is for France, Germany, Italy and Romania to get rid of their autocrats, tell Zelensky to go fuck himself in Israel and try to build Europe anew.
I don't know what America, Epstein etc have on the French, Germans etc but it must be some seriously sick shit. Vilnius is easy. They just want to make money by pimping their young boys out to American GIs. But the others, God knows.[/QUOTE]It does not look like any of the crap you post is getting any attention. Are you being paid in rubles for posting here?
[QUOTE=PedroMorales;2712976]...Either way, Lithuania's goose is cooked and the Polish paupers will be next...[/QUOTE]I think there should be a CAPTCHA test to prevent this account from posting on this forum.
[QUOTE=Tumeric1;2684601]Pedro, can you disclose a little bit about yourself? Like approximate age, citizenship. I am just trying to get an idea where ideas like yours are popular.[/QUOTE]Take the population of the world. Subtract brain dead Americans and those on America's payroll. I represent the rest. Go back to America's genocide campaign of shock and awe in Iraq. Remember the fake marches against it. (being American I am sure you don't remember the 1 million dead Iraqi children and the many others American and Ukrainian troops raped).
Many people don't buy America's repetitive bullshit.
I note you go on about small dicked Russians, a typical American and G7 obsession. Did you consult this?: [URL]https://www.worlddata.info/average-penissize.php[/URL].
Though Cambodia (where the US slaughtered all round them and then helped the Khmer Rouge fight the Vietnamese) ranks lowest, Isaan women told me small but strong. Your compatriots would be better placed to fill you in on dicks as that turns them on.
Your power is crumbling. I am not here for debate as one cannot debate pigs. Just look at the other Stupid Shit but especially American Politics thread. Rambling nonsense.
The good news?: Russian High Command again hinting at heavy action in Lithuania. Kaliningrad, BTW, is nuked up to the hilt.
Me? I am getting my affairs in order for whoever might survive what is coming. One thing is sure: Lithuania is burned toast.
[QUOTE=TConor;2712834]Russia may win the battle, but Putin has already lost the war.[/QUOTE]The WSJ article I cited was about Putin's imperial ambitions, which is why any notion that the current conflict is only limited to Ukraine is naive and shortsighted.
I agree with the part of your post about Putin having already lost the war. But, with respect to Russia winning the battle, I would assert that the jury is still out on that. Also, the subject line of your post is a bit confusing to me, since it seems to be at odds with what you wrote in the body of your post.
[QUOTE=DramaFree11;2712853]Nope, at $5-7 a gallon Putin is winning. As usual Ukraine will lose because of corruption and greed. They were winning, but there leadership was too stupid to make a deal.[/QUOTE]Because, as I've demonstrated numerous times, you hide behind a cowardly pretense at even-handedness, yet your every comment or proposed solution is pro-Russia and anti-Ukraine.
You should at least have the balls to admit the truth. And, for any who are new to this thread, I invite them to view your posting history as it provides ample evidence about your bias.
[URL]https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/06/25/ukraine-says-russia-aiming-to-drag-belarus-into-war-after-strikes-a78105[/URL]
I've seen reports that Putin is very unhappy with Lukashenko as he (Putin) wants Belarus to be more engaged in the war against Ukraine. Lukashenko has so far avoided direct involvement by his forces, but the recent meeting between the two leaders may be part of an ongoing effort to pressure Lukashenko. That's worth watching for any developments that go beyond window-dressed "feel good" pronouncements.
Also, it's important not to overlook or underestimate Lukashenko. He's a savvy political operative and has a long carrot-and-stick relationship with Russia. It's my opinion that he might be trying to maneuver himself into a position where he could be seen as a possible successor to Putin. Here's a thread that gives an in-depth look at Lunashenko's personal history:
[URL]https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1518240030967406593.html[/URL]