Pattaya Reports

[QUOTE=Daddy07]So nice to see an honest unbiased report here for a change. :) It's such a pleasant contrast to all the slobbering knuckle dragger stories we usually see on this thread.

Please don't make us wait 3 years for the next one.

Maybe if you had a business located in Pattaya you might like it better.[/QUOTE]

I think the problem Daddy is that you guys in Patts get so conditioned by the low-standard of women available there that you lose sight of what a good-looking Thai woman really is. I think Giotto's reaction to the women is because he probably sees women of such quality on a daily basis that one would never see in Patts.

A solid '10' in Patts would be lucky to be rated a '4' in Bangkok.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]I think the problem Daddy is that you guys in Patts get so conditioned by the low-standard of women available there that you lose sight of what a good-looking Thai woman really is. I think Giotto's reaction to the women is because he probably sees women of such quality on a daily basis that one would never see in Patts.

A solid '10' in Patts would be lucky to be rated a '4' in Bangkok.[/QUOTE]
No problem at all, OTH. I always get a chuckle at all the sophisticates’ from Bangkok stumbling over each other in their over the top exaggerations about the shit hole of Pattaya.

You know ... stuff like: "A solid '10' in Patts would be lucky to be rated a '4' in Bangkok." Very comical.

I'm sure you must be correct, but I'm happy I've not discovered the awful truth yet. :)

[QUOTE=Giotto]I was in Pattaya last week. Really!

Everybody knows that I am a big Pattaya fan, and now that I haven't been there for at least 3 years it was time to go there again [nonsense, simply business].

It has changed. New buildings, hotels, shopping centers/areas everywhere. Much more modern now. Not good, not bad, somehow a crazy mix, all the bar areas next to modern buildings.

Many Russian tourists now, and surprisingly also many couples and families. May be because I stayed in North Pattaya ..., a nice resort (Green Garden Resort ?!?, not sure about the name), huge pool, reasonable rooms, clean, TV, average quality breakfast and food. Beds not too good, old matrices, simple sheets. Internet - wireless, 70 min THB 100, 10 min. to display one page, SMTP blocked - unusable. I went to Starbucks (in Royal Garden Shopping Center), there it works very well.

Nightlife:

Beer bar areas everywhere, extremely boring, providers quality - no quality at all. I have no idea why there are still some customers visiting those beer bars. The closer you come to Walking Street the more customer those beer bar areas have.

Gogo's: Happy A Gogo was somehow ok. Provider quality average ... but no reason to run away immediately. No smoking in that bar ! I was surprised. Bar had customers.

Diamond a GoGo - the hit a few years ago - now dead. No customers, no quality providers. I left immediately.

Tahitian Queen - bar is still good, has customers, providers quality average, good music.

Beach Road at night:

I don't see any difference to what I have seen some years before. Still lots of lonely [horny???] ladies waiting for customers - ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW!!! Yikes, I have no idea how this ladies can ever find somebody - but obviously it does happen sometimes.

Next update on Pattaya then in 3 years [earliest] - I hope I can avoid it, I definitely don't like it.


Giotto[/QUOTE]

Come on Giotto. As a moderator you might consider a little moderation. This post smacks of a bit of a negative marketing campaign coming from someone who obviously has some financial interest in promoting BKK and Soi 33 and the establishment you are associated with.

I would humbly suggest that one very short visit in 3 years doesn't qualify you as an expert in the quality of the girls in Pattaya.

I read a lot of your material re: BKK and found it quite informative. This was not one of your best efforts.

I've seen both gorgeous and exceptionally unattractive girls in both places. The proportion of gorgeous vs. unattractive varies from time to time in both places. IMHO, attitudes and price of the girls are a bit better in Pattaya. But, that's just from my experiences. I've had great and beautiful WGs in both venues. I've also had less than great encounters in both places.

I've visited Soi 33 a number of times (5 or 6) and in all cases I found attractive and unattractive girls just like Pattaya. The issue I have encountered with Soi 33 girls was attitude and price. There have been a number of Soi 33 Painter bars that I visited with girls that made many of the Soi 7 beer bar girls look really good.

Still Soi 33 is still worth a visit. The prices for the girls and the drinks are a bit over the top.

I don't pretend to be an expert on all that is the LOS. I'm just a tourist. Just like you were a tourist in Pattaya. How many nights did you spend in Pattaya before you came to the conclusion that it wasn't worth a visit for the next 3 years or maybe never?

Given your very informative reports on BKK; you could have been a little more honest or at least informative with your post.

Here is my edited version of your post. "I have a vested interest in a hotel/resort on Soi 33 in BKK. As a smart business man, I must suggest that you never visit Pattaya. This place really sucks and 99.99% of the girls in that butt hole of a place are exceptionally fugly. On the other hand, a vast majority (99.99%) of the girls on Soi 33 are stunners. Pattaya sucks! Why would any punter in his right mind go there? BTW. Check out my place on Soi 33 in BKK."

That may or may not have been your intention. But that's the way I interpreted your post. I'm pulling your chain a bit here. No harm intended. I seriously have found your BKK posts informative.

Take care,

N1

[QUOTE=Daddy07]So nice to see an honest unbiased report here for a change. :)
...
Maybe if you had a business located in Pattaya you might like it better.[/QUOTE]Daddy07,

Hmmm, I think I feel the irony in your words ... :)

Anyway, I tried to write my report as unbiased as possible - I never liked Pattaya, so I am biased, for sure.

I definitely find the providers quality low there, compared to Bangkok. This has a lot to do with the type of bars I visited, the way the girls are dressed, the way they behave, the way they carry themselves - not my thing. But - to each his own. There are obviously lots of customers which like this style.

No way that I start a business in Pattaya. I checked out some boutique hotels which are to be sold, and my decision was very clear: No business in Pattaya, I don't want to spend a lot of time there to start it up. I also don't see a real chance of making money there, it is mass tourism, and money can only be made with quantity, most likely not with quality. I thought about giving it a try, but I put that plan to the files.


Giotto

[QUOTE=Nuevo]Come on Giotto. As a moderator you might consider a little moderation. This post smacks of a bit of a negative marketing campaign coming from someone who obviously has some financial interest in promoting BKK and Soi 33 and the establishment you are associated with.

I would humbly suggest that one very short visit in 3 years doesn't qualify you as an expert in the quality of the girls in Pattaya.

I read a lot of your material re: BKK and found it quite informative. This was not one of your best efforts.
...
[/QUOTE]Nuevo,

I visited Pattaya, and I wrote a report. I can stop writing reports about Pattaya, if you wish ...

When I read my report again - I mentioned, that it was my first visit since 3 years - that definitely doesn't qualify me as a Pattaya expert. I simply wrote about what I saw. My personal impression.

There was no marketing approach for Livingstone's Lodge in this report at all. Pattaya customers are usually not customers of Soi 33 in Bangkok. Those worlds obviously don't really match.

Regarding the quality of girls: There is a huge difference between Soi 33 and what I saw in Pattaya. But there is no area like Soi 33 in Pattaya from which I know - so it does not really surprise me. You can compare the Go-Go bars of Pattaya with the Soi Nana / Soi Cowboy area and possibly the beer bars with those we have here in Bangkok in Soi 22 and Soi 5/7. And even then - there are differences in the behaviour, dresses etc., in my POV.

But I hope that I am allowed to write a report about Pattaya when I have visited it without being qualified as a Pattaya expert - everybody else writing here is for sure more expert about Thai service provider quality and Pattaya than me.


Giotto

[QUOTE=Nuevo]...
Here is my edited version of your post. "I have a vested interest in a hotel/resort on Soi 33 in BKK. As a smart business man, I must suggest that you never visit Pattaya. This place really sucks and 99.99% of the girls in that butt hole of a place are exceptionally fugly. On the other hand, a vast majority (99.99%) of the girls on Soi 33 are stunners. Pattaya sucks! Why would any punter in his right mind go there? BTW. Check out my place on Soi 33 in BKK."
...
[/QUOTE]Nuevo,

LOL, no, that is definitely not the message - please not!

The experiences we have here in Livingstone's with the tourists who usually visit Pattaya is - let's say difficult. And this is not meant to be any kind of valuation ...

Pattaya is relatively cheap, you can get everything cheap there, cheap hotels, cheap food, cheap girls. Soi 33 is definitely not cheap - that doesn't fit together. Some Pattaya tourists visit Bangkok and Livingstone's, and when they start to compare it always comes down to one point - everything is so expensive here in Soi 33, compared to Pattaya.

Then the quality approach - are the girls "better" than in Pattaya? What justifies a higher price? What is "better" ? The performance in the sack? I don't think that the higher prices for girls guarantee a better performance ...

There are people staying in Khao San Road area, in the lower Sukhumvit area, in the 5 star hotels at the river, in North Pattaya, South Pattaya - to each his own. All the areas have a different style and provide different entertainment options. Everybody should just accept that and do whatever he likes.

The most problematic customers for us here at Livingstone's are the unhappy ones - i.e. the ones who like to stay in this place because so much was written in the forums, but they expect something like Pattaya - and then the rooms, food, girls are more expensive here. And the complaining starts ...

For me - Pattaya sucks. But obviously for many others not. To each his own, let's leave it like that.


Giotto

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]
The only people that eat this street food are Thais on a budget and tourists. I don't know anyone among my aquaintances, both Thai and Farang who eat on the street, except maybe for the occasional snack.

There are many good Thai restaurants everywhere, many of which are also reasonably prices where the quality is far superior and safer.

Besides all of this, I think street food just doesn't taste all that good.[/QUOTE]
In many budget Hotels, the food quality is not that great.
Off the street often tastes a lot better.
There are many crap expensive restaurants around as well.

Street sellers wouldn't do well if their food tastes bad.
The times I have been sick were from eating in restaurants, although not may be top class expensive ones.
I have never been sick from eating off the street vendors.

A large portion of Thais are poor and cannot afford expensive restaurants. They are quite happy to eat from selected street vendors that they trust to have fresh produce. Some will buy at the markets and prepare for themselves especially when nearby street vendors don't have the variety.

[QUOTE=Ken Orvik]I like to eat SOM TAM myself, but I never heard about they use mango to make that. Everyone I ask will use pappaya to make SOM TAM

Maybe you are not so experienced as you try to make the impression of??????

Ken.

[/QUOTE]
OTH knew that Som Tam was made with Malagor (papaya) but miss translated into English. (just a slip)

However a variation made with mamuang (mango) does exist, but not so commonly ordered.

There are many Thai dishes where we know what it is in Thai but rarely have to speak its English names.
Some we wouldn't have a clue what it is called in English.

The reason food from street vendors has that unique, hard to identify flavor, is Road Spice. This is the dust that is thrown up by every passing motorcycle, car, truck and bus. It is a combination of dirt, garbage, particulate pollution, spit, cigarette butts and ashes, and dried, pulverized droppings from stray dogs. The street vendors are aware of this 'Manna from the tires' and position themselves to take the best advantage of it. Witness the BBQ chicken carts right next to Sukhumvit Highway.

Street food is not the only beneficiary of this free seasoning. If you eat in one of the open air restaurants, along Beach Road for example, you'll notice they wipe the table when you sit down. After you finish your meal, wipe your finger on the table and notice the black grime on your finger tip. What falls out of the air onto your table fell on your food as well.

Think about it.

Khun Talung

[QUOTE=Daddy07]No problem at all, OTH. I always get a chuckle at all the sophisticates’ from Bangkok stumbling over each other in their over the top exaggerations about the shit hole of Pattaya.

You know ... stuff like: "A solid '10' in Patts would be lucky to be rated a '4' in Bangkok." Very comical.

I'm sure you must be correct, but I'm happy I've not discovered the awful truth yet. :)[/QUOTE]

The exception might be the nurses at Bangkok Hospital Pattaya. Some of them are pretty hot.

Anyway, I'm sure you and I have quite different tastes. So, my condemnation of the dark lovelies of Patts comes from my rather un-Farang view of what constitutes Thai beauty. I'm not going to get into any more debates about that because my view is the minority view on here and I respect that fact.

[QUOTE=Superman79]I've had no problem as a black american in Thailand. The girls love the "chocolate man" as they will yell at you constantly. As I said before, you will love Lucifer's at night on Walking street.[/QUOTE]

Everything is Ok for the Chocolate Man, as long as he has money (possibly overspends)....and doesn't take too long. Trouble starts for the Chocolate Man when there is a money dispute, a cultural dispute or a babe who just doesn't like you dispute. The Chocolate Man would not be happy if he heard the girl's comments behind his back...and neither would the the Vanilla Man. Thai rak Thai for the most part.....Chocolate and Vanilla welcome to play....with money for the honey!!

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]

However a variation made with mamuang (mango) does exist, but not common.

[/QUOTE]

It is very common here in Isaan. Perhaps you Bangkok types should spend a weekend out here sometime and see what you are missing, in both types of food!

[QUOTE=Mick Licker]However a variation made with mamuang (mango) does exist, but not common.[/QUOTE]

True. It's not common with street vendors largely because mangos are so much more expensive than papaya. The same would be true for Isaan people at home. They're less likely to make somtam mamuang when they can make somtam malagor for a lot less money. But, they still often do. Also, pra ra and those black crabs don't really go with mango, IMO.

But, mango somtam is readily available in any Isaan restaurant or Thai restaurant that has somtam on it's menu. Even that Isaan chain 'Yum Saep' has it. They have a lovely fried fish with mango somtam dip - sweet, sour and spicy and quite good.

[QUOTE=ThaCTJohn]I have never mongered outside the US and I have finally chosen a destination. This would be Pattaya. I have never traveled outside of hte country before so excuse my ignorance. What exactly do I need to travel from the U. S to Thailand. How easy is it to find party favors in Thailand besides the liquor. I am not le. Everybody seems to think that when I ask this question. I have been jumped on in other rooms. I have planned a pre disneyland trip to DR in oct anybody going to be there from this room let me know. I am doing this to get my feet wet so I have a little experience before hitting disneyworld. I am planning on spending three days in Pattaya and 2 in Bangkok and I have a few questions and by the way I am 28 years old and love to PARTY that's why I asked about the party favors in the intro. Thanks for the help.

1. Outside of mongering what other activities are there I love jet skiing and waverunning?

2. Should I rent a car to get around?

3. Will a U. S liscense work in Thailand for renting cars bikes jet skiis etc?

4. What places do you recomend to eat I am a chillis and steakhouses and hibachi type of guy?

5. I am planning on going alone should I drag someone with me or am I safe by myself?

6. I work out 5 days a week what gyms are there and how much should I pay to use their facilities?

7. How do the thai people view black americans?

8. Would you check out Bangkok or just focus on Pattaya?

9. Are all hotels girl friendly in Pattaya?[/QUOTE]

You need a passport and some time to read the thousands of posts on this forum. There are many gyms all over major cities with many different pricing plans. Don't rent a car.....and don't focus on Pattaya alone....and no.....after working out five days a week.....you won't need to drag anyone along.......

Giotto you are quite right that Pattaya is worse than it used to be, due to 'modernization'. But I'd like to comment on two of your observations:

[QUOTE=Giotto]
Beer bar areas everywhere, extremely boring, providers quality - no quality at all. I have no idea why there are still some customers visiting those beer bars. The closer you come to Walking Street the more customer those beer bar areas have.[/quote]

These establishments have customers, Giotto, because men from certain countries, such as England, Germany, and the US do not have access to sex in their homelands. They come to Thailand and a few other destinations because these are the only places where they can have easy access to sex.

[QUOTE=Giotto]Beach Road at night:

I don't see any difference to what I have seen some years before. Still lots of lonely [horny???] ladies waiting for customers - ROCKY HORROR PICTURE SHOW!!! Yikes, I have no idea how this ladies can ever find somebody - but obviously it does happen sometimes.
[/QUOTE]

You are quite correct that the quality is low on the Beach, but this is a major change from years ago. Police action has led to fewer good looking girls on the beach. However, those who still brave the authorities can easily make 1,000-2,000 baht per day, as there are far more customers on the beach than in any bar. Many men simply hate the bars, and the annoyance of having to drink so much liquid for no good reason. Also there is something very irritating about having to sit in a place where there are only maybe 5-10 girls for even 15 minutes, not to mention paying 40-100 baht for the privilege. Keep in mind that the wonder of prostitution is Convenience, Giotto. You get to have lots of sex with lots of women, and most importantly without having to put up with many impositions.

[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]The oil, which is usually a poor quality, inadequately recycled oil is then re-used over and over again when they cook. Carcinogens build up from all the frying and grilling. The grills are rarely that clean to begin with and have carcinogenic tar residue build-up on them over the course of day-long cooking.

The only people that eat this street food are Thais on a budget and tourists. I don't know anyone among my aquaintances, both Thai and Farang who eat on the street, except maybe for the occasional snack.[/QUOTE]

OTH, I eat in small restaurants and on the street constantly, but I do not eat 'pad' whatever - or anyway rarely. I also dislike the noodles soup which makes up some 80% of street food. What I eat, and recommend, are the pre-prepared foods which are set out in pots and pans. These are mostly delicious curries and soups rather than stir fried dishes. Alas this type of restaurant is getting rarer in Pattaya and Bangkok as it requires more trouble and space while development is destroying all that is good in the this country (and the rest of the world), and while up in Isaan though they are plentiful nearly all only offer take-out in the little plastic bags.

At any rate, the only times I have ever gotten even slightly sick in Thailand has been when I have eaten at more expensive Thai or Farang restaurants - in fact in these I've come to rather expect it. I've never gotten sick from street food. The key is quite simply that you must eat where the owner or a member of the owner's family cooks the food - paid cooks don't much care, and this is true anywhere in the world. Also always remember that Thais don't eat farang food, and therefore farang food is cooked with great indifference by Thais, who dislike farang.