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It does not bother me that the Clubs or Girls read this Forum, The Internet has created lots of jobs and money for "Underground" Services.
I had a Girl at Oase ask me where I found out about the Place and I told her the Net, not this Forum but a Quick search of any FKK would probably bring them to ISG or other Forums.
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I agree
[QUOTE=MoneyShot; 1273477]It does not bother me that the Clubs or Girls read this Forum, The Internet has created lots of jobs and money for "Underground" Services.
I had a Girl at Oase ask me where I found out about the Place and I told her the Net, not this Forum but a Quick search of any FKK would probably bring them to ISG or other Forums.[/QUOTE]I don't think it makes any difference if the girls or the clubs know about the forums, its a service oriented business and the clubs are legal entities so I doubt they are bothered about any comments or reports. Moreover all of us use alias here and at the clubs so its very hard to link the reports to the customers, unless until someone posts a very specific incidence with the girl or the club like a fight / argument or created a scene which anyways would not be looked upon nicely at the club.
I think in the bigger clubs the average footfall would be about 200 people per day and most girls would average about 10 sessions per day that means even if you are a regular and go there on a weekly basis the chances are they hardly remember you till you showed up again or link you to a report posted by some xyz on a xyz forum. I once met a girl in former La Bedo club, Dusseldorf a few yrs ago and she asked me how I came to know about the club being a tourist and I told her I had read about it on the Internet, a little more digging and I gave out the name, she was happy that such forums existed at it would mean better business for the girls giving good service and free promotion for the clubs.
Since most clubs also post pictures and names of the girls it hardly makes any difference to the girls I think if someone is writing about them, ofcourse bad publicity is not good but that only means they would try to give better service in fear of being monitored.
I would understand apprehension if this was a underground operation like in the USA, Middle east or other countries where things are not legal and chances of girls / clubs identities being revealed could lead them into trouble but I doubt reporting on FKK, Partytreff's (Where they even post party pictures with customers consents at times) makes any difference.
Having said that I am still against posting real names, Ph numbers, Address or any private information that the girls / clubs may have shared with you in good faith.
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Minority report
[QUOTE=Travelforfun;1273547]"it hardly makes any difference to the girls I think if someone is writing about them, ofcourse bad publicity is not good but that only means they would try to give better service in fear of being monitored."[/QUOTE]Since those who read or write on the forums are a small percentage of clients only, I would assume, that the girls don't care of being "monitored" by "professional" mongers. This would be even more true in clubs, where most of the clients are travelling business man, who only visit a special club once, twice or three times a year while being on a business trip in Germany.
Some of us here really greatly overestimate the influence we have using such a forum! In fact we are representing the minority of clients visiting the FKK-Clubs!
Sure thing, it is good to exchange our experience, but I would guess, that statistically seen, we are one out of 20 or maybe maximum one out of 10 of clients who visit a club.
Since the girls know that I am writing (sometimes) in the internet, some of them (who know me for longer time) even approached me and wanted to know, if there had been something written about them during the last weeks. Believe it or not, if I said,"Sorry, I don't know" or "No, you haven't been mentioned", they were disappointed. And some of them asked me: "can you please look again, I don't believe"! Usually, because some guy had told them that he had written a good report about them!
Most of the girls coming from the countryside of Romania or Bulgaria don't have a computer with them or have the knowledge or time to search for information in the internet.
Girls who come from the big cities or have good education use the internet. But even they use it most of the time for other things than to read in PaySex forums. That's the female perspective!
The male assumption is, once you enter such a forum and become an active member, you become an "important one" and you can influence or even control / monitor things.
IMHO you fool yourself!
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As the one who (partly) started this discussion can I clarify my intention.
I do not have any problem with girls or clubs reading my reports. Nor do I consider what we write to be of great import.
What I was asking is that no member should ever show or read reports to a girl, (and this is the key bit) with added interpretation, comments, and information by him, in order to make himself look important and to criticise or belittle the author of the report concerned. This is completely different matter.
I also have a problem when such men also tell the girls whatever personal details they have managed to find out about me.
As Nick has said, my request may do very little to stop such (very rare and) uncouth loutish behaviour, but all I can do is ask
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[CodeWord908] in Europe
Yesterday, there was a report on the second german televison about the sex paradise in Germany with customers from many other countries heading for Germany!
Here you can see it! And a little bit of Romania too and the type of "business partner" involved!
[url]http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/1626206/Menschenhandel-in-Europa#/beitrag/video/1626206/Menschenhandel-in-Europa[/url]
All the Romanian girls say in these interviews, that they came to know about the clubs "via the internet"! Of course they were "instructed" to tell the police this.
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[QUOTE=Optimist; 1273586]I do not have any problem with girls or clubs reading my reports. Nor do I consider what we write to be of great import.
What I was asking is that no member should ever show or read reports to a girl, (and this is the key bit) with added interpretation, comments, and information by him, in order to make himself look important and to criticise or belittle the author of the report concerned. This is completely different matter.
I also have a problem when such men also tell the girls whatever personal details they have managed to find out about me.[/QUOTE]Very good point and clear statement!
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The girls know about us and the forums, not only ISG, but also French and Dutch forums. They can even read the forums with their smartphones.
Some girls ask me not to write any thing bad about them or write about them at all. I remember after a poor session (we simply didn't clicked) with a babe at GT, she begged me not to write a bad report about her.
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[QUOTE=Nick The G; 1273588]Yesterday, there was a report on the second german televison about the sex paradise in Germany with customers from many other countries heading for Germany!
Here you can see it! And a little bit of Romania too and the type of "business partner" involved!
[url]http://www.zdf.de/ZDFmediathek/beitrag/video/1626206/Menschenhandel-in-Europa#/beitrag/video/1626206/Menschenhandel-in-Europa[/url]
All the Romanian girls say in these interviews, that they came to know about the clubs "via the internet"! Of course they were "instructed" to tell the police this.[/QUOTE]That is the negative reality of flip side of the coin. We tend to closed our eyes on this topic.
The Romanian girls said also there were no jobs in RO so they are aiming to come to Germany to work.
Artemis and King George was mention.
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The girls in NRW definitely know about the forums and probably also most regulars that write reports. Through the dutch and german forums (maybe the french too) there are often birthday parties where the birthday boy (s) get free entry and the 'guests' a reduced entry. It will be very clear that the whole group eating cake and drinking the champagne that is offered by the club, know each other through a forum. Hell, when there are live reports being written some girls but in and 'demand' that certain forum members show up that night (all in jest of course).
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[QUOTE=Free Dude;1273733]The girls in NRW definitely know about the forums and probably also most regulars that write reports. Through the dutch and german forums (maybe the french too) there are often birthday parties where the birthday boy (s) get free entry and the 'guests' a reduced entry. It will be very clear that the whole group eating cake and drinking the champagne that is offered by the club, know each other through a forum. Hell, when there are live reports being written some girls but in and 'demand' that certain forum members show up that night (all in jest of course).[/QUOTE]Yes, this has been my experience too. I attended one such forum "meet" about three years back (in this case French, and a meeting not in NRW as it happens) , and a lot of fun it was too. It was arranged with full cooperation from the club.
The only ones who seemed (initially) not to be informed were the girls. LOL. But they soon drew their own conclusions. The atmosphere was very good, and I was soon being quizzed by girls about the forum, and they were very excited by the possibility that they might be the subject of reports themselves. Not an hour had passed and they were clustered around smartphones desperate to find one of their number who spoke French. Of course, none of the guys was giving anything away as to identities, and it was all harmless banter anyway.
Of course some will remember our own modest ISG meets in Hessen a few years back too, and there were girls there too who realised the situation.
I personally have long chosen not to have any qualms about reporting, and what consequences it may have. I always tell it as I saw it, and if a girl has a problem with that, she is welcome to her problem. Even if she refused me service (has not happened, I have never been accosted in how many years?) , there are many, many other lucky girls unable to resist my Fuffiger. Or I can go to the next club.
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[QUOTE=Optimist;1273586]What I was asking is that no member should ever show or read reports to a girl, (and this is the key bit) with added interpretation, comments, and information by him, in order to make himself look important and to criticise or belittle the author of the report concerned. This is completely different matter. I also have a problem when such men also tell the girls whatever personal details they have managed to find out about me.[/QUOTE][font=tahoma]I certainly would condemn anyone who would cause difficulty for any ISG Member who has reported on this forum [b]Optimist[/b]. As you well know I have a track record of defending those who offer this forum good and interesting reports. I therefore extend this same courtesy to you. It is my opinion that we all take a risk when offering up personal details to other forum members. Bad things have happened before and who knows what might happen again. I would definitely encourage you to exercise more caution and to be more circumspect with regard to any details which you might communicate. I will certainly endeavour to do the same! Good luck to you and I hope that this matter will not occur again. [/font]
[QUOTE=Nick The G;1273588]Yesterday, there was a report on the second german televison about the sex paradise in Germany with customers from many other countries heading for Germany![/QUOTE][font=tahoma]Most European Union citizens are unaware of what goes on in Germany with regards to Sex Clubs and Sex Tourism. Hamburg is known as a naughty city much like Amsterdam in the Netherlands. One city in Germany (i.e. Hamburg) is just one city and not too much attention is paid to what occurs. Very little is commonly known in the rest of Europe about how the Sex Business is organised in Germany. If knowledge were to spread, I would suspect that pressure would be put on your country, by EU partners, to seriously amend legislation. Attitudes to prostitution in the rest of Europe are very different particularly in Scandinavian, UK / Irish and some Southern European Countries. The general opinion in France is still against legalization of the Sex Business. You might argue that the German attitude is more enlightened and that other European Countries practice double standards etc. Another argument is that Germany is fast becoming the Thailand of Europe BUT even worse, the Sex Clubs are full of "victimized women" from poorer Eastern European EU countries forced through poverty to work in the Sex Clubs of Germany. Obviously this is not an argument with which I would personally agree, but saying that, the German attitude to how this business should be organised is definitely NOT shared by most other European Union members. The bigger the Sex Business in Germany becomes the more noticeable it will be to other EU countries with a very, very different perspective on this issue.[/font]
[QUOTE=Nick The G;1273579]The male assumption is, once you enter such a forum and become an active member, you become an "important one" and you can influence or even control / monitor things. IMHO you fool yourself![/QUOTE][font=tahoma]Yes indeed [b]Nick The G[/b], very well said and I could not agree more! [/font]
[QUOTE=Toscana;1273747]I personally have long chosen not to have any qualms about reporting, and what consequences it may have. I always tell it as I saw it, and if a girl has a problem with that, she is welcome to her problem. Even if she refused me service (has not happened, I have never been accosted in how many years?) , there are many, many other lucky girls unable to resist my Fuffiger. Or I can go to the next club.[/QUOTE][font=tahoma]Good for you [b]Toscana[/b], a very different and refreshing perspective on the dangers / non-dangers of report writing. In my opinion a very sensible attitude! [/font]
Cheers to you All.
[b]CD[/b]
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It could be interesting and fun to have the girls joining this forum and report on the guys, who are good in bed and are nice and who guys are asshole.
In the Danish forums, we actually have a number of SWs who are also telling their stories about their experiences and many stories are really funny and also some morbid stories, like some guy died during the sex act. Also I remember she told a story about a regular of hers, he would only have BJ and he never spoke a word during the session and he had a stone face the whole time, not even a sign of pleasure when he came, what a weirdo.
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Germany
[QUOTE=Captain Dan;1273762]Most European Union citizens are unaware of what goes on in Germany with regards to Sex Clubs and Sex Tourism. Hamburg is known as a naughty city much like Amsterdam in the Netherlands. One city in Germany (i.e. Hamburg) is just one city and not too much attention is paid to what occurs. Very little is commonly known in the rest of Europe about how the Sex Business is organised in Germany. If knowledge were to spread, I would suspect that pressure would be put on your country, by EU partners, to seriously amend legislation. Attitudes to prostitution in the rest of Europe are very different particularly in Scandinavian, UK / Irish and some Southern European Countries. The general opinion in France is still against legalization of the Sex Business. You might argue that the German attitude is more enlightened and that other European Countries practice double standards etc. Another argument is that Germany is fast becoming the Thailand of Europe BUT even worse, the Sex Clubs are full of "victimized women" from poorer Eastern European EU countries forced through poverty to work in the Sex Clubs of Germany. Obviously this is not an argument with which I would personally agree, but saying that, the German attitude to how this business should be organised is definitely NOT shared by most other European Union members. The bigger the Sex Business in Germany becomes the more noticeable it will be to other EU countries with a very, very different perspective on this issue.[/QUOTE]Well, at least the good thing about it is that Germany is the economic powerhouse of Europe, and indeed a major player on the world stage both economically and politically. Germany does not have to bow to the hypocritical moralizing of any other EU member. Hell, several countries are looking to Germany to help save them and make things right in Europe. Perhaps some of them can use a few pages out of Germany's book to figure out how to be a successful nation. Even with legalized prostitution. Imagine that!
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[quote=the cane;1273814]well, at least the good thing about it is that germany is the economic powerhouse of europe, and indeed a major player on the world stage both economically and politically. germany does not have to bow to the hypocritical moralizing of any other eu member. hell, several countries are looking to germany to help save them and make things right in europe. perhaps some of them can use a few pages out of germany's book to figure out how to be a successful nation. even with legalized prostitution. imagine that![/quote][font=tahoma]first off i think to get an accurate impression of my original comments you must look at what i have written in conjunction with the german tv current affairs programme, the link to which was originally posted by [b]nick the g[/b] and which i also link to here: [url]http://www.zdf.de/zdfmediathek/beitr.ndel-in-europa[/url]
even though i cannot agree with much of what you have said [b]the cane[/b], thank you for your reply anyway. let me explain why i cannot agree with you.
true, germany is indeed the strongest economic power within the european union but current economic analysis predicts that the german economy will at best slow dramatically this year and probably enter recession.
[url]http://www.spiegel.de/international/business/0,1518,808582,00.html[/url]
with four of germany's top five trading partners (france, netherlands, uk and italy) in a precarious financial situation, the economic outlook for germany cannot be all that healthy. just like california is unlikely to prosper during recession in the rest of the united states; germany cannot expect to survive unrep001hed when the rest of the european union is in economic difficulty.
i would also question your reasoning with regard to germany saving other countries. if spain or italy were to default (like greece) the shock to germany would be catastrophic. so much money has been lent by german banks to italy (3rd largest european economy) and spain (4th largest european economy) that should these countries be unable to make repayments, the german banking system would at best require massive bailouts from the german taxpayer, so much so, that the country would probably move from recession to severe depression. at worst the german banking system would probably collapse. all the countries within the eurozone are in this mess together and germany lends financial assistance to its european partners (primarily via the european financial stability mechanism, an €800billion financial war-chest funded by all eurozone members) as much to help itself as to help fellow europeans.
you also might be surprised to learn that prostitution is legal in most (if not all) european union countries. it is the sex business in the form of brothels (including sauna clubs) that is illegal in many. that is to say that it is illegal to profit from the proceeds of prostitution (i.e. pimping or brothel ownership) in many european countries. strangely enough i believe that this is also the law in germany, but that ways around these restrictions are more easily managed and tolerated. i would also question your view that because prostitution and the sex business is currently legal in germany that this will always be the case. i don't for one moment believe that the german people are less moral than any of their european neighbours. however, i also don't think that the average german citizen (particularly the average german female citizen) really wants their country to be turned into a sex park for the rest of europe and north america. in my opinion the sex business in germany is beginning to get too big and is starting to attract unwanted attention from both inside and outside germany.
[b]cd[/b]
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[QUOTE=Captain Dan; 1274106][font=tahoma]
You also might be surprised to learn that prostit I would also question your view that because prostitution is currently legal in Germany that this will always be the case. I don't for one moment believe that the German people are less moral than any of their European neighbours. However, I also don't think that the average German citizen (particularly the average German female citizen) really wants their country to be turned into a sex park for the rest of Europe and North America. In my opinion the sex business in Germany is beginning to get too big and is starting to attract unwanted attention from inside and outside Germany.
[b]CD[/b]
[/font][/QUOTE]Nonsense, the sex business in Germany is not getting too big, it stays the same for the last few years or so.
Actually due the crises there are less customers. And customers have less money and spend less money. That why you also see many FKK clubs have closed or have been transformed to PTs and flatrate clubs.
The main customer base is from German customers and other neighbour EU countries and a very small percentage
From North America.
I used to attend the big Venus Erotica Messe in Berlin and visit Artemis, the Messe has be very small or even skipped during the lasts years simply because there were not enough attention and customers.
German are quite relax about prostitution, prostitution is legalized and regulated, it's a job equal to other jobs. And the girls have rights and can join the unions and pay to job insurances. Pimping is not allowed. I don't see why other EU countries should interfere
With the German prostitution law. Each EU countries have their own prostitution law, I believe it's the same with the different states in US.
Once and a while the media pick up [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord908][CodeWord908][/url] stories to create some noise, but this has been going on for years.
Prostitution money are mainly black money and most of the money are going out of the country with the girls and the pimps. (
So indirectly we mongers and Germany are supporting the girls home-country)
NC