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Freeler, I've twice mentioned Ad-Aware as a program that doesn't fit TNH's assertion that removal programs cause problems. It's free for personal use, has numerous options, and is solid and safe. I've used it for several years with no problems. One of the nice things about it is that it will also clean out cookies left by ad-tracking sites you might come across during normal surfing.
I agree with HeadHunter2000s that Spybot - Search & Destroy is an excellent program, and it's also one that works nicely (and is aware of) Ad-Aware. It has a somewhat looser interpretation of spyware, also including various Microsoft issues, and also has one of the best language options I've seen on any program. I didn't mention is before because I've only been using it for a couple of months and I like to see results over a longer time before I recommend such products.
And if you notice, in addition to syntax discussion (which came up in the first place to clarify overly broad technical advice) I [i]have[/i] been posting specific on-topic information regarding spyware in those previous posts.
Also, TNH's cleanup.bat won't work properly on Win98 because the file locations it references are different in XP, which is what it's built for. 98's not the true multi-user OS that XP is and it handles user accounts in a different manner.
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Freeler, yes I'm talking about XP. I thought you know where the directories are in 98? Just replace my directories with whatever names you see in DOS or command prompt, or the full windows names. I think some could be under C:\windows.
JZ, out differences regarding THE is slight. I would think if I didn't define the specific reference, nobody can hold me accountable. If I'm guilty, that's the problem of English, or my English, which doesn't bother me a bit. Because my mind have to be more precise than that to get by.
Spybot hasn't got a good history. If it still claims loudly to 'use it at your own risk' nowadays, I'll think twice about it.
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TNH, would you be a bit more specific on your negative statement about Spybot's history? Most of the research I did on it gave it a strong positive recommendation, and many Spyware forums include it as a must-have utility. I've certainly had no problems with it.
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This software is unmistakable - on the title bar it says "Use it at your own risk!" Need I say more?
It also has the recovery option for you to UNDO what you have destroyed. IMO this reflects try and error approach, and that undo gives you a false sense of security.
It's much more picky than Adware. I guess it's using simple name pattern matching to find known adwares in the registry rather than understanding adware at the functional level.
In the earlier versions, some reported errors are:
After removal, you get error message whenever you boot, ie, windows is trying to run something that is missing.
OS corrupted. Some adware turn themselves into system components. If you delete them without restoring to the old state, you have to repair the OS.
Undo doesn't work, doesn't recover.
Can't say these errors/features are unique to Spybot, but I would be very worry about software that just detect some keywords in the registry.
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Again I disagree with you -- the admonition to use the program at your own risk is a reflection of the power of the software and the warranty provided: "removing the threats targeted by Spybot-S&D sometimes involves cutting deep into the system sometimes, and I cannot guarantee that your system will be running the same as before. For example, spyware hosts may stop working. I can also give you no warranty that Spybot-S&D will remove every spy on your system, or that it will give you no false positives. For your own verification the location of the problem is shown with every entry, and if you have any questions remaining you can visit the support forum for more information."
In my opinion that's simply a realistic statement rarely found in software user agreement, as people who use ANY tool for removing software from their system can put themselves at risk. I've had to clean up after lots of people who've screwed up their system by using the standard Windows program uninstall options.
The error examples you give can also appear when you clear your system of viruses or trojan horses, or even disable them, regardless of the program involved. An understanding of the operating system and its ability to repair itself (such as XP's digital signature or system restore options) is critical if you're going to mess around with this stuff.
Undo options are available on most decent utilities that involve uninstalling things, such as Norton's Cleansweep, GoBack, etc. That's not a "trial and error approach," it's a sensible way of letting people undo possible mistakes they make when rummaging in a system, and is especially important when you're talking about powerful tools that let you modify system settings and features. I personally don't deal with utilities WITHOUT an undo option, and I don't want to deal with utilities too weak to let me have a fair amount of control over what I'm doing.
The bottom line with the program is that it gives you a huge amount of control over what you're doing -- from defining specific things you want to exclude (I exclude my Adobe and Macromedia products, for example) to providing you a lot of specific information about each "threat." To me, that's a responsible utility.
Yes, people can screw up their systems if they just start poking buttons without paying attention to what they're doing. But they can do the same thing by using your cleanup.bat file if they happen to have a typo in it.
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This is my end game on this issue. One of the 'highly recommended' adware removal program has to put a warning on it's title bar. That's why I try to imply that some can be more dangerous than the adware themselves. That warning is not enough. Some adware cannot easily be removed as they don't come with uninstall instructions to restore to the original state, resulting in missing system components. Undo can be too late as you already crashed and will fail to boot.
The other 'highly recommended' removal program Ad-aware don't have an undo button, and don't come with warning on the title bar. Either it deal with only the adware it can deal with, or it's 100% effective and 100% safe.
At the end we come back to the 1st dilemma that I mentioned. To remove or not to. You know that they don't guarantee to remove everything. Ad-aware typically report less problems than Spybot. Either you still have adware after removal or you are going to destroy something that isn't adware. Virus and Trojan horse are different things. They have to be removed by ALL means and you have to take the consequences. At least as a public service you have to remove them. Another good reason is that your friends will not talk to you anymore.
It's the responsibility of these software to sell to the right users they intend. Average home computers and users, where the money is, should be scared away by the Spybot warnings. It's well known that MS uses windows to screw it's competitors at the OS level. Small developers hate to pay the sum to get the documentation or development system in order to integrate their application into Windows. If you don't deal with Windows OS for a living, only the rich-in-time class can afford to know what the registry means other than a keyword.
For any further questions I suggest to ask the Ad-aware people to hold a debate with the Spybot authors.
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You are mistaken on Ad-Aware, TNH. It maintains "quarantined objects" which are basically archives of what's been removed, the same as most antivirus programs do, and these can be restored (or deleted) at any time.
Your statement that "Either you still have adware after removal or you are going to destroy something that isn't adware" is simply untrue. The difference in what the two programs detect is due to differing definitions of adware, and in both cases those definitions can be user-adjusted. And in both cases those definitions are very well documented. In addition, these programs do not "destroy" anything -- they place it in an archive where it can be deleted, restored, examined, etc. Both of these products, used correctly, are excellent and do the job they were designed to do.
Both of these programs, as is the case with countless utilities, are shareware/freeware, (no big money being made here) and, yes, users shouldn't use them unless they can actually read and follow directions. Of course, drunken people shouldn't drive, and casual users also shouldn't activate viruses, say yes to installing spyware in the first place, or create and use .bat files that delete things on their hard drives based on quasi-anonymous postings in non-technical forums unless they actually understand what such files really do, etc., but they still do all this stuff. You can't protect people from themselves merely by suggesting to the rest of the world that they avoid doing things they're perfectly cabable of doing. Unlike spyware and adware, both programs are quite explicit about exactly what they do. Anyone who can actually read and follow documentation will be fine using either of the mentioned products.
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To those who are really woried what tracks wife/gf/kids might find I recommend again Microsoft Virtual PC and VMWare.
You have your very own (virtual) PC for mongering, or whatever you are into. The virtual machine is a single file on your HDD, which can be password protected. The virtual machine can be securely deleted if required. By keeping a baseline copy of this file you can restore a complete machine configuration in seconds. Any internet usage tracks only exist within the VM. You can install whatever software you want without upsetting your host machine configuration.
You can get a 30 day trial copy of VMWare from
http://www.vmware.com/vmwarestore/newstore/wkst_eval_login.jsp
Remember you'll need some OS install disks for your new virtual PC.
In terms of peace of mind while the wife/gf/mother-in-law are using your PC, I really think this is the best solution there is.
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Let me slip in my final moves. Ad-aware do NOT have an UNDO button. Calling it something else is a good philosophical move, otherwise you have to warn 100's of times, as in Spybot, that this UNDO is not the usual UNDO in word processors, a lot more dangerous.
In Ad-aware, remove = quarantee, remove NOT= delete. I don't blame them, it all started with DOS, who doesn't want to call unix remove remove, but delete instead. Most annoying is \ instead of /.
You want to remove adware that give away your privacy when you are not aware of it. If that's defined any differently either you don't get what you wanted, or you get more than you bargained for. In the latter case you might detect something like spy / monitoring software that is secretely installed on your computer. But much more likely you spend much more time to avoid deleting legit components.
There is big money here. People will pay a few dollars to buy adware removal programs when they are bombarded with pop-ups even when they are not surfing (though this is marginally counted as adware). Nowadays, it's better to have millions paying you a few dollars, rather than a few people paying you thousands. You don't even need to buy it. Yahoo probably brought up the best (or whatever) pop-up stopper and put it in their tool bar. People don't pay a few dollars and then consult the MS technical manual on registry entries.
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I found a better way for myself, I go thru proxy server. There's plenty of them. I proxy thru local cable or dsl or whatever I can find. But Since I use Unix I don't worry much.
You window people should watch out, look in this folder. I had to do a clean-up for my bud & the shit I found, he is really thankful.
In Win XP WATCH THIS FOLDER & THEN THANKS ME LATER
"C:\Documents and Settings\root\Local Settings\Temp"
Loverboy
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Lots of virus out this week for vindow so stay away from porno & gaming sites & hopefully you got a antivirus software. If not go get your your for free at
http://www.download.com/3120-20-0.html?qt=antivirus&tg=dl-2001&search.x=0&search.y=0&search=+Go%21+
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Just a note about using a non-identifiable e-mail address when registering for wsg. SOMETIMES, not always, but 1 time out of 30-40, when you click on http://www.wsgforum.com/ You will be served up with ANOTHER member's header page (the very top part) as in:
Welcome back 11Bravo. You are currently a Senior Member
If you are a Regular Member, then you don't need to apply for an upgrade to Regular Member. Thanks
Your current membership email address is: xxxxxxxxx
Is your email address active? Have you checked your email recently for WSG Forum messages?
Maybe it has something to do with having the options set to yes for:
Automatically login when you return to the site? (uses cookies)
Browse board with cookies?
As an example, I was just served up with: Member2326's info. I know his e-mail address used to register for the forum, and I know he has 0 messages. Hitting the reload button will bring up YOUR correct page.
So, use an e-mail address that you don't mind others seeing.
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11Bravo,
you need to click on forum logoff & it will log you off completely.
See the wsgforum.jpg
loverboy
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Attention all,
Senior Member HarryR
Posts: 318 Is the owner of Pic 0bj04.jpg. I got PM saying I did not give him credit. But discussion here is Internet Security anyway dosen't matter to me?
Lets give
Senior Member HarryR 100 POINTS Credit
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I use Spy Sweeper. It seems to work well and I get regular updates. I even caught a key-logger on a work computer.
QUESTION: How secure is WSG? Can a hacker or LE "hunt you down" from our posts or invading the site?
Da Bone
[blue]Short Answer: No.[/blue]