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Thank you Jackson!!!
Russian Women; my personal study, my thesis subject, my objective of existance (ATM)
I've been studying the minds of these beautiful and yet perplexing creatures, why them? Because quite honestly they seem to have their 'sh*t' together.
In comparison to all other races I've encountered, I understand the Russian girl more.
It comes down to a simple question you can ask the average girl from the average culture, Whats the top 5 goals of their current life? Honestly I think you'll get vague, uncountable, immesuarble ideas. Things like, fun, fast cars and cute boys. Get them to get closer to define it, and they (for the most part) cannot.
Ask the same question to a Russian girl and they seem to have a far more clear cut understanding.
Marriage temp req, permanent preferred.
Children, One. Usually, because they honestly cannot fathom a second.
House, Comfortable, but add a dasha in there.
Car, Also comfortable, but actually they would just prefer a driver.
Good Job, This is. Vague, a rich husband does not actually take this out of the equation for many.
This said, Because they are so straight forward, so obvious in their attentions, they concentrate on these things with EVERY man they size up. Sure, having fun is not off the books, and quite honestly the concept of a ****, does not really exist here, a girl who has many many boyfriends is maybe frowned upon, but having less than a handful by 20 is far far worse.
More than once, a girl I've encountered, who had little to no experience is quite offended that I might even consider her a virgin. Yet in western society, it seems less prevalent, yet more desired?
Also, the Deep Mysterious Russian Soul, The girls are just gluttons for punishment. Life has been so friggin hard, so f'd up, price crashes, unable to eat, plan ahead, so anything, that they honestly just live for today, sure this is slowly changing with Putin/Medvedev and the stability fund, but many girls are still throwing caution to the wind, going out and having as much fun, as the boys will buy them.
And this ties in with their natures. Men, Must pay. Be you a friend, a lover, a husband or just the only man at the table. Men, Pay. Thats their goal, their nature, their explanation for existance. And what should the girl do for this? Sex? NO. Love? NO. Looking good. Thats all.
Alot of modern moscow seems to be all about looking good, showing off, being the best shiny star in the cafe, the envy of everyone around. Having an Entourage of girls around you is status. Gay guys even surround themselves with hot women, as status.
Ae the girls required to do anything else? Nope. Just BE PRETTY.
For some of us, this is such an archaic premise, outdated by a few hundred years maybe. But, as a result, predictable.
For me, this means I feel like I'm a man from the future, armed with the knowledge of where the movement of females will go next, like knowing the stock market weeks before hand I can plan and take advantage of new movements in the flow of female logic. But this is slow stuff, and I'm decades ahead.
My best experiences, when I just treate them like cattle. My worst? When I treat them like human beings.
Respect a girl, treate her with kindness, with compassion, with clarity, and you get your ass handed to you on a plate, and your engagement ring thrown back in your face in McDonalds.
Treat her like your personal slave, and she'll love you forever.
Theres a saying in russia:
?.? : If he hits you, He loves you.
While the saying is outdated, the feeling remains in their collective souls.
---------------------------
What this means to this forum?
Pat and Squeeze an Ass, if she looks around, she's merely checking if she wants to sleep with you.
Tell her what your going to do, so she has time to object, but don't ask, its too wussy.
Lead her from A to B to C, she'll follow. Cafe, to Bedroom, to BBBJ.
Take no shit, weak boys take shit, Strong men set the standards.
Freebees are easy with these girls, if you say so.
[size=-2][b][u]EDITOR'S NOTE[/u]:[/b] [blue]I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please [url=http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/announcement-reportsofdistinction.php?]Click Here[/url] for more information.[/blue][/size]
[QUOTE=Solntsa Yada]
Pat and Squeeze an Ass, if she looks around, she's merely checking if she wants to sleep with you.
Tell her what your going to do, so she has time to object, but don't ask, its too wussy.
Lead her from A to B to C, she'll follow. Cafe, to Bedroom, to BBBJ.
Take no shit, weak boys take shit, Strong men set the standards.
[/QUOTE]
pretty much sums it up in 4 lines
[QUOTE=Solntsa Yada]My best experiences, when I just treate them like cattle. My worst? When I treat them like human beings.
Respect a girl, treate her with kindness, with compassion, with clarity, and you get your ass handed to you on a plate, and your engagement ring thrown back in your face in McDonalds.
Treat her like your personal slave, and she'll love you forever.
Theres a saying in russia:
?.? : If he hits you, He loves you.
While the saying is outdated, the feeling remains in their collective souls.
[/QUOTE]There is a lot of wisdom in this and especially important if you are managing several girlfriends or girl contacts you hope to fuck at one time.
One mindset that works for me is if you look at women like animals (your cattle metaphor is essentially the same) and stimulate very basic things in their psyche. It works more often than one would think.
I disagree however that you can't approach women on a kindness/emotional level though. I get LOTS of pussy that way, but it has to be under special circumstances and the target audience is a different (and generally older, 25+) one. You have to open that can of worms at the right time, otherwise it will just get you a confused look. Teens and early Twens are usually not tuned into the emotional aspect and are more superficial.
Nonetheless, effectively employed the emotional factor can be a gold-mine... or a double-edged sword. Once they become smitten with your emotional side, they'll never let go. I get lots of calls and sms's from ex-gfs in relationships with other guys longing for the passion, 'craziness' and emotion of their time with me, and I don't think I am exceptionally emotional even. Important thing is to combine this "emotion" with lots of sex. We can do that, right? If you get them hooked on passion, emotion and SEX they won't leave you alone. They are like vampires. I even joke with them and call them that and they almost always laugh... I think they feel complimented.
Coldness shouldn't be mistaken for strength. Coldness and pseudo tough-guy-ness* will not get you very far IMO. Strength is expressed in other ways, most of them thankfully simple.
* not a real word, sorry
[QUOTE=Solntsa Yada]What this means to this forum?
Pat and Squeeze an Ass, if she looks around, she's merely checking if she wants to sleep with you.
Tell her what your going to do, so she has time to object, but don't ask, its too wussy.
Lead her from A to B to C, she'll follow. Cafe, to Bedroom, to BBBJ.
Take no shit, weak boys take shit, Strong men set the standards.
Freebees are easy with these girls, if you say so.
[/QUOTE]That's great in theory and in principal correct. Strong and direct are really the only effective forms of mating in Russia, at least for those looking for multiple partners and scoring as quickly as possible.
But just how effective is ass-grabbing for you actually? Do you grab asses in the line at McDonalds too? :)
Just curious.
I'm not an ass-grabber myself, prefering other methods of getting my point across. Can't complain about the results either, even though opening night/first night scores directly from the club to the crib are rarer than they used to be. I find daytime or especially early evening dating (whether first or second date is statistically irrelevant in my opinion) to be much more effective in terms of actually getting your dick wet.
I have limited experience with Russian women but in my opinion they act robotic. So you don't need any game at all.
For example I was once in a train station in Germany, I talked to a blonde, tall girl, she was from Moscow. In 10 minutes we were holding hands although she waited for her parents.
Another time I noticed a drunk girl talking to another girl sitting next to her while I was travelling in train. When the train stopped and the girl went out, I sat next to the drunk girl. I had only 5 minutes available because I should get down to the next train station. She told me she is from Russia and then I tongued her down for five minutes.
Other times I picked up Russian girls in vaccations who talked to me very openly but were not willing to progress. The Russian girls I dated brought me to their room on the first date. So I came to the conclusion (not sure 100%) that with Russian girls no game is needed and your fate has been decided from the first second you appear. They are not like Polish or Czech or belarus girls. They do not respond to what you say but they run their own game like the ukrainian girls. (who are different in many aspects but this is another story).
[QUOTE=Hecker]Other times I picked up Russian girls in vaccations who talked to me very openly but were not willing to progress. The Russian girls I dated brought me to their room on the first date. So I came to the conclusion (not sure 100%) that with Russian girls no game is needed and your fate has been decided from the first second you appear.[/QUOTE]
Huh?
I will agree that first impression is big with Russian girls - but then again - it's important with girls all over the world. It's not difficult to be DFKing any (esp drunk) girl from any country within a few minutes of meeting her, as long as she likes the way you look/act. But closing the deal (ie your dick inside one of her orifices - preferably all) with a low-mileage freebie is a totally different matter. That does take some game, as the horny little bitches normally *do* want to fuck you, but on the other hand, they want to maintain some of their dignity at the same time.
[QUOTE=Hecker]
So I came to the conclusion (not sure 100%) that with Russian girls no game is needed and your fate has been decided from the first second you appear. They are not like Polish or Czech or belarus girls. They do not respond to what you say but they run their own game like the ukrainian girls. (who are different in many aspects but this is another story).[/QUOTE]
In my limited experience with Russian and Ukranian women, I must say that I agree with Hecker. I've met a couple of Russian girls who since the first date told me "they wanted me for something more than friends" and they proceeded to show me what they meant. While with others ladies was near impossible to score even though they were open to some sort of friendship.
In my first steps with Russian ladies I remember some who initated contact with me, a little time passed and they gave me their phone numbers and later (in a next meeting) gave me her address and proposed going to the bed without me asking them any of these things (no kidding). I was absolutly shocking to find that degree of openness and willingness in such beautiful women unlike in other parts of the West.
If the ladies like you I think those Slavs are really easy to get in bed.
My contribution to this discussion around russian girls. I generally speaking do agree with what was written below.
To be more precise, I think that the market is divided into 2 main categories, and you should keep this in mind when you go out for some hunting action.
First category is the young and beautiful russian babes. You will quickly get a date, go to restaurant, with an amazing - as per european standart - beautiful girl. She could be 10 or 20 years old younger than you, but it seems that they don't care. These girls act like princess. i think that these girls are a complete lack of time, unless you only need the pleasure to have a dinner with a beautiful girl. You will need several dates, pay several high restaurant bills in order to get, maybe, a kiss. These girls are looking for the big love (marriage, child, datcha...).
in the second caterogy, you will meet here all 30+ years old, all MILF who has a child at grandma' house for the night. Yes, they are usually not as beautifu as the first category, but guys, these girls know what they want, they know that the next day at 10.00 AM they have to pick up their child... So, when you arrive in their game (usually they go out in 4 -5 girls band, have a dinner, and drink a lot), it doesn't take long for you to kiss her and then, find a way to make her accept to go back home with you.
In that category you can put also all 4-6's, as they have to face so much competition in moscow with the 7,8 and 9. They are usualy happy to meet a gentleman, and I know that we are all gentlemen here.
So up to you: to have a great chance to loose your time with a young and beautiful princess, or to be sure to score a 6 / MILF... As for me, i like both. It just depend on the night... and sometimes, the first category can also finish in your bed...
I live in Moscow and my girlfriend is not russian. I have the feeling the i never met a single russian girl i would like to live with. They are beautiful, usually skillfull in bed, they respect a lot you as "a man" (no feminism in russia), but I consider their mentality as too different from what i can accept (in 2 words: importance of money, lack of humour, lack of smile, lack of desire of travelling, etc...).
[QUOTE=Passepartout]
To be more precise, I think that the market is divided into 2 main categories, and you should keep this in mind when you go out for some hunting action.
[/QUOTE]
That's a nice and tidy taxonomy, Ppt, but there's an important archetype which you overlooked. It's what I call Karnaval Girl (ref: [url]http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082602/[/url]). This is your college-aged provincial girl, often from outside of Russia, who's come to Moscow to improve her life through either study or work. She often has multiple boyfriends/sponsors at a time, given that she has to make ends meet by herself. It's important to ask a girl where she's from within the first couple minutes of meeting. If from Moscow, she'd better be gorgeous, cuz it's gonna take some serious work to crack those legs open. She's most likely living with mama and taking her time to find the right guy to marry. But if she's from someplace you've never heard of (eg Bum Fuck Belarus), you may have hit paydirt. That said, you need to be careful, as these girls are often the biggest gold-diggers as well.
[QUOTE]
I live in Moscow and my girlfriend is not russian. I have the feeling the i never met a single russian girl i would like to live with. They are beautiful, usually skillfull in bed, they respect a lot you as "a man" (no feminism in russia), but I consider their mentality as too different from what i can accept (in 2 words: importance of money, lack of humour, lack of smile, lack of desire of travelling, etc...).[/QUOTE]
Well, you may not be surprised to hear that Russian dyevs probably feel the same way about you. And not just you, Ppt, but all foreigners. It's common knowledge among Russians that Russian girls can only find a soulmate in a Russian man (despite their faults), as every other nationality lacks the highly esteemed русская душа (Russian soul). Of course you'll find plenty of girls willing to test the waters outside, but I honestly believe that undercurrent of "only Russians understand Russians" runs deep and in every Russian person. Maybe that truly is the Russian soul.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Well, you may not be surprised to hear that Russian dyevs probably feel the same way about you. And not just you, Ppt, but all foreigners. It's common knowledge among Russians that Russian girls can only find a soulmate in a Russian man (despite their faults), as every other nationality lacks the highly esteemed русская душа (Russian soul). Of course you'll find plenty of girls willing to test the waters outside, but I honestly believe that undercurrent of "only Russians understand Russians" runs deep and in every Russian person. Maybe that truly is the Russian soul.[/QUOTE]
I think that is very true!
I dated a couple of Russian girls here (in Canada).
Despite everything they said about the bad habits and mentality of Russian men, and all the advantages they had (great looks, great sex) they still ended up with Russian boyfriends! In Toronto! Go figure!
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel]I think that is very true!
I dated a couple of Russian girls here (in Canada).
Despite everything they said about the bad habits and mentality of Russian men, and all the advantages they had (great looks, great sex) they still ended up with Russian boyfriends! In Toronto! Go figure![/QUOTE]
Well coming from two different worlds, thats not shocking at all...
But as with everything, you have those that no matter how well matched they may be with their own men, they desire a "western" standard of living, which is why they are IN Toronto, NYC or Los Angeles....
Can you find a Russian man in Los Angeles? Of course, I know at least one.
But for many their faults outweigh their advantages which has given rise to the "Mail Order Bride" market in Eastern Europe.
In my very LIMITED sampling, this isn't specific to Russians really, but Slavic women; they share all the same desires most women share which puts Helena's post on point.
If you're looking to get married, forget young, fresh and tight, even they want young, handsome and exciting more than older, establish and steady. You can strike a happy medium I believe if you seek those women in their mid to late 20's which are heavily populated with 8's, 9's and 10's, so your not loosing much if you desire somebody "Hot". But they are more "ready" for a serious relationship with, well ANYBODY. Might as well be YOU if you can deal with all the nonsense, the INS and money issues.
People like Doc can provide you with more day to day information about Russia because this is his hunting ground, I have done a ton of research about; well getting married to one of these creatures and can I afford it... So if you want THAT information, let me know - :)
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]But as with everything, you have those that no matter how well matched they may be with their own men, they desire a "western" standard of living, which is why they are IN Toronto, NYC or Los Angeles....
[/QUOTE]
DJ... are you claiming they want a high standard of living, or that they want to live in the west? And if you equate wealth with the west, then you've never been to Moscow. :) Sure, when I first visited 10 years ago, there were tons of Russian girls who wanted to get the hell outta dodge. But now? The girls I know in Moscow - at least the young, smart and attractive ones - are very happy living here and have no interest in moving elsewhere, especially not the US or Canada.
[QUOTE]
If you're looking to get married, forget young, fresh and tight, even they want young, handsome and exciting more than older, establish and steady. You can strike a happy medium I believe if you seek those women in their mid to late 20's which are heavily populated with 8's, 9's and 10's, so your not loosing much if you desire somebody "Hot". But they are more "ready" for a serious relationship with, well ANYBODY. Might as well be YOU if you can deal with all the nonsense, the INS and money issues.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, Russian girls aren't very concerned about age differences. Much less than in the west. For example, Doc and I aren't that young, yet neither of us has much problem hooking up with girls half our age (though by my own admission he has even less problem than I do :) ). One 19 y.o. I dated said that she wouldn't date any guy under 30, and that she preferred guys around 35. In their minds, guys under 30 might look good, but they aren't marriage material. That said, Russian girls (like any in the world, frankly) do value confidence and charisma. Being handsome and/or stylish helps you score from the start, especially when picking up in bars, clubs and cafes. But that can be offset by personality and humor if you've established a rapport in advance over mamba, odnoklassniki or icq.
[quote=pizdyets]dj... are you claiming they want a high standard of living, or that they want to live in the west? and if you equate wealth with the west, then you've never been to moscow. :) sure, when i first visited 10 years ago, there were tons of russian girls who wanted to get the hell outta dodge. but now? the girls i know in moscow - at least the young, smart and attractive ones - are very happy living here and have no interest in moving elsewhere, especially not the us or canada.
actually, russian girls aren't very concerned about age differences. much less than in the west. for example, doc and i aren't that young, yet neither of us has much problem hooking up with girls half our age (though by my own admission he has even less problem than i do :) ). one 19 y.o. i dated said that she wouldn't date any guy under 30, and that she preferred guys around 35. in their minds, guys under 30 might look good, but they aren't marriage material. that said, russian girls (like any in the world, frankly) do value confidence and charisma. being handsome and/or stylish helps you score from the start, especially when picking up in bars, clubs and cafes. but that can be offset by personality and humor if you've established a rapport in advance over mamba, odnoklassniki or icq.[/quote]pizdanutsa! right on target...
in terms of moscow girls (and st.petersburg essentially the same) there is little desire for youngish, educated girls to leave the country.
the "i must leave russia!" generation is already the 35+ crowd and even many of them have figured out that the west is not necessarily the promised land.
that said, in my experience those that do desire to leave russia are usually looking at it as a temporary career move and by far the most popular places are london and italy. my pov might be a bit skewed since i know a lot of girls in finance, but i think the trend is pretty representative for most 25-35 year old yuppie dyevs.
i have however met a lot of girls that went to the us on work/study programs or worked in the us for a year or so, mostly menial labor cleaning hotels etc. same goes for girls who worked on cruise ships, i personally know 5 or 6 so the overall numbers must be very high. they almost all end up back in russia however.
as for age, of course there are girls that prefer dating in their peer group and sometimes this is made obvious, but i've never been outright rejected just because of age.... there are other reasons to reject me.. .:)
i've had a enough cases where girls said i was "a bit old" for them but still ended up in bed with me. nonetheless, i do think the trend of dating within the peer group will grow in ee as well as younger guys start making more money (or getting more from mom and pop) and become more attractive to younger girls.
still, russia is very much a dating paradise for guys 35-45 with a little cash and average to above average "game". in a nutshell, i feel no shame hitting on 18-22 year olds in russia and get very little negative response from others. the girls themselves aren't surprised at all.
contrarily in europe or the us, it is often apparent that this is not in "the comfort zone" socially.
[quote=doctor_skank]pizdanutsa! right on target...
in terms of moscow girls (and st.petersburg essentially the same) there is little desire for youngish, educated girls to leave the country.
the "i must leave russia!" generation is already the 35+ crowd and even many of them have figured out that the west is not necessarily the promised land.
that said, in my experience those that do desire to leave russia are usually looking at it as a temporary career move and by far the most popular places are london and italy. my pov might be a bit skewed since i know a lot of girls in finance, but i think the trend is pretty representative for most 25-35 year old yuppie dyevs.
i have however met a lot of girls that went to the us on work/study programs or worked in the us for a year or so, mostly menial labor cleaning hotels etc. same goes for girls who worked on cruise ships, i personally know 5 or 6 so the overall numbers must be very high. they almost all end up back in russia however.
as for age, of course there are girls that prefer dating in their peer group and sometimes this is made obvious, but i've never been outright rejected just because of age.... there are other reasons to reject me.. .:)
i've had a enough cases where girls said i was "a bit old" for them but still ended up in bed with me. nonetheless, i do think the trend of dating within the peer group will grow in ee as well as younger guys start making more money (or getting more from mom and pop) and become more attractive to younger girls.
still, russia is very much a dating paradise for guys 35-45 with a little cash and average to above average "game". in a nutshell, i feel no shame hitting on 18-22 year olds in russia and get very little negative response from others. the girls themselves aren't surprised at all.
contrarily in europe or the us, it is often apparent that this is not in "the comfort zone" socially.[/quote]
you can both correct... i don't equate "west" with "wealth". if bailing out wall street, something i know many that post here are connected too equals "corp welfare" then that is closer to the truth.
and i agree that many rather go to stylish places like italy or france i suppose, america has really gone down the tubes hasn't it???
that's why i get the feeling i've come to this party a bit too late... we shall see however, i still got bullets to shoot....
Just some thoughts with an invitation for comment and expansion...
Things that do work with Russian girls:
* success
* mystery
* gifts (needn't be big or inappropriately outlandish)
* humor (can be tough to communicate however)
* passion (not only sexual... passion about anything will do)
* jealousy (them jealous of you)
* talent (girls love guys who are good at something)
Things that don't work:
* anger
* violence
* coldness
* stinginess
* indecisiveness
* jealousy (you jealous of them)
* laziness (there is no "slacker" culture in Russia)
[quote=doctor_skank]just some thoughts with an invitation for comment and expansion...
things that do work with russian girls:
* success
* mystery
* gifts (needn't be big or inappropriately outlandish)
* humor (can be tough to communicate however)
* passion (not only sexual... passion about anything will do)
* jealousy (them jealous of you)
* talent (girls love guys who are good at something)
things that don't work:
* anger
* violence
* coldness
* stinginess
* indecisiveness
* jealousy (you jealous of them)
* laziness (there is no "slacker" culture in russia)[/quote]
i agree with you on all points.
the only [i]slacker culture[/i] is here, canada and the uk.....
the amount of single russian women is crushing. i need to find a good english speaker!
i guess this is the place were we can talk about web sites? i'm still on elena's where a 41 year old has tried to contact me, funny but interesting. lucky lovers, i haven't been on lately. low scam factor is nice, but not quite having the selection i want.
any other sites you peeps can suggest? i just don't want to join any old site...
[quote=dj fourmoney]i agree with you on all points.
the only [i]slacker culture[/i] is here, canada and the uk.....
the amount of single russian women is crushing. i need to find a good english speaker!
i guess this is the place were we can talk about web sites? i'm still on elena's where a 41 year old has tried to contact me, funny but interesting. lucky lovers, i haven't been on lately. low scam factor is nice, but not quite having the selection i want.
any other sites you peeps can suggest? i just don't want to join any old site...[/quote]for long-distance chat lucky lovers is pretty decent, although i do not use it anymore myself.
i also used to use this site, got laid there a few times:
[url]http://www.bride.ru/[/url]
there is some spam and scamming there, but pretty easy to filter out.
now i use [url]www.love.mail.ru[/url] a lot... it's also sometimes called "mamba" on this forum since there are many mirror sites that use the same database.
also [url]www.dating.ru[/url].
you'll need to learn some russian to navigate the sites... and knowing even a little bit will help you be successful there... most people are looking for people living in their own city and not looking for long-distance relationships. also, avoid the super hotties. their pics are great to slobber all over, but they are looking for local rich guys in most cases. just my 2 cents.
if you want to stick to english, you might try any of the sites popular in the us like facebook or myspace. russians on there too, although i am certain they get lots of attention.... which is probably why they are there in the first place.[quote=dj fourmoney] the only [i]slacker culture[/i] is here, canada and the uk.....[/quote]lots of slacker culture in europe and asia as well... basically anyplace that has had a stable, secure economy over the last 2-3 decades will inherentely develop a culture of chronic underachieving and boredom. it is a shame that pop culture celebrates it so much and that society supports it.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Just some thoughts with an invitation for comment and expansion...
Things that do work with Russian girls:
* success
* mystery
* gifts (needn't be big or inappropriately outlandish)
* humor (can be tough to communicate however)
* passion (not only sexual... passion about anything will do)
* jealousy (them jealous of you)
* talent (girls love guys who are good at something)
Things that don't work:
* anger
* violence
* coldness
* stinginess
* indecisiveness
* jealousy (you jealous of them)
* laziness (there is no "slacker" culture in Russia)[/QUOTE]
"Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac" - Henry Kissinger
On the other hand, it's a turnoff if you're bragging. Powerful men don't need to brag.
Of course this is bad news if you're a "sanitation engineer", but I don't think many of those types are visiting Moscow in today's economic climate.
In my opinion,things that work with russian girls.
1. Intelligence.Awareness about literature,cinema,music,philosophy,they like to discuss.Languages,travel.
2. Psychology.Able to quickly calibrate the girl,understand their needs etc.
3. Money.This is the success element.
Generally the less intelligent the girl,the more value they put on material things.Communism,atheism,slavic character shaped the girls.
No market value of girls in communism.
No morals during atheism.
No restrictions from slavic soul.Freedom.
It comes like this.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]"Power is the ultimate aphrodisiac" - Henry Kissinger
On the other hand, it's a turnoff if you're bragging. Powerful men don't need to brag.
Of course this is bad news if you're a "sanitation engineer", but I don't think many of those types are visiting Moscow in today's economic climate.[/QUOTE]Good point.
Bragging is risky, but still you must convey a message of success/power to her.
Of course blatant braggards or braggards that cannot back up their stories in any way will get called out sooner than later... but you must give her clues or signals that you are successful. Pure confidence is the best way to convey that, but being careful to avoid appearing aloof or conceited... which are negative signals.
If you've got good mojo you'll automatically be sending the right signals however.
Another positive aspect is that in most issues you can be very upfront with them. The only thing you absolutely cannot afford to do is appear unmanly or weak. You might get away with emotional weakness at times.. all women like that or can at least respect it... but weakness of character or weakness of drive to succeed are things they won't tolerate more than a few isolated incidents. If she is a quality girl she can get a percievably quality guy (upwardly mobile) elsewhere pretty easily in this economy. When it comes to ladder climbing, looks are secondary to girls, so no amount of charm will help you there.
In a sense foreigners still have certain inherent advantages they can use. Of course not all women will be interested in meeting a foreigner and some even against it, but you'll always find a significant amount that are actually interested, even if initially just out of curiousity. If you play your cards right, this curiousity will get you laid in a very short time. Some girls do still seemingly get turned on by the idea of fucking a foreigner, especially the student type girls or girls working for western or international companies where English is spoken. These girls aren't usually the absolute hotties, but more the 6-8 type. Very fuckable and often beautiful, but not absolutely top drawer. Top drawer expects more from a foreigner than nice words, some presents and some fleeting romance. She expects "perspective" for herself and will hold out to get it as long as she can. Foreigners welcome, but they must bring considerably more to the table than just "fun". If your power and success are faulty or even just a facade, you'll not make the cut. Bagging this category of bird will cost you more time meaning will cost you more coin. There are exceptions to every rule, but that's the way it's shaping up. Thankfully for me, I'm happy with 7-8s, but draw the line at 6s. I also enjoy getting the occassional 9. It does feel better.
There are also disadvantages beyond the language handicap most have or cultural issues, for example there is the disadvantage of expectation. It is actually an opportunity to gain advantage... this expectation combined with curiousity will get your foot in the door... however if you don't meet expectations, you're doubly punished. A local boy might get away with going cheap on his girlfriend a few times if they are both students for example, however a foreigner in Moscow is naturally assumed to be successful and somewhat monied... as most are. Anything less confuses them in a decidedly negative way.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank] A local boy might get away with going cheap on his girlfriend a few times if they are both students for example, however a foreigner in Moscow is naturally assumed to be successful and somewhat monied... as most are. Anything less confuses them in a decidedly negative way.[/QUOTE]
You can say that again. And it's slippery slope too. If you get latched up with a Muscovite girl of good breeding and show her a 1st class time on date #1, things are certainly not going to go on the cheap from there. If these girls are going out with a "pretender" and not a "contender", they will want to find out quickly and drop you before there's any collateral damage.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Just some thoughts with an invitation for comment and expansion...
Things that do work with Russian girls:
* success
* mystery
* gifts (needn't be big or inappropriately outlandish)
* humor (can be tough to communicate however)
* passion (not only sexual... passion about anything will do)
* jealousy (them jealous of you)
* talent (girls love guys who are good at something)
Things that don't work:
* anger
* violence
* coldness
* stinginess
* indecisiveness
* jealousy (you jealous of them)
* laziness (there is no "slacker" culture in Russia)[/QUOTE]
Dude! That list works everywhere!
But I do want your advice since I'm gun shy with foreign women approacing online. Since the African internet scam is SO HUGE- You know, using fake pics to try to scam you!
When I get Russian women sending me a shout , I imagine some vodka swilling commie cabbie trying for extra income from me. When it comes to the African pics, it seems the poorer looking women are for the most part real. The high quality, super model pics that come in, I doubt right away.
But those Russian pics are usually all very hot. So you say those Russian are genuine for the most part?
[QUOTE=Naked Gunz]Dude! That list works everywhere!
[/QUOTE]NG, essentially, yes. ) As we've often said on this board, in many ways everywhere girls are girls.
It's the details that make things more interesting, and culturally there are of course differences. That's why we have finally gotten our own threads on the subject... in fact, 2 threads.
Cultural differences... for example IMO European women place a big emphasis on intelligence, Chinese women on family or social status and American women on looks, style or coolness. Age and one's own social position in life of course affect these factors, but the validity is essentially the same.
Russians put more emphasis on certain factors than other cultures do, at least in my experience.
For example, as Hecker correctly said awareness of Slavic history, traditions or culture will go a long way with the girls, just as intelligence in general would. This is surprisingly a prominent theme among different social groups in Russia. You'd of course expect it among academics, but not among average girls.
IMO Russian girls put even a stronger emphasis on success than American or European girls do. This is probably something that established itself in the last 20 years and isn't based purely upon greed as one might initially suspect, but rather on security and tradition.
Besides the need for the shiny things that girls want and need in a hyper-capitalist economy, there is the underlining notion that harder times could come again and it is vital to establish oneself in the upper class. Traditionally the upper class ruled the lower classes, who were peasants. It often amazes me the way the upper classes and nouveau riche treat the lower and even middle classes. Again this may change with time, however the traditional second question girls ask "what do you do" isn't ONLY a question to determine how much money you make, but rather to gauge your social position and what you want from life. The first question is of course "where do you live?". For girls who see their future in Moscow and especially those from good or upwardly mobile families, guys who don't live locally or spend a lot of time locally are essentially useless, although you may get lucky as a tourist every once and a while a tickle some girl's fancy as a novelty fuck. Girls from regional cities are more likely to be interested in meeting guys who might get them out of their provincial cities, even though life there has improved considerably in the last 5 years.
[QUOTE=Naked Gunz]But those Russian pics are usually all very hot. So you say those Russian are genuine for the most part?[/QUOTE]Are you talking about normal dating sites, i.e. non-pros? On those sites virtually all the pictures are real. I've never met a girl that wasn't the same girl as in her pictures... sometimes better-looking than the pictures, sometimes the same, sometimes slightly worse. It was always the same girl though.
The pro sites are another story.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]For long-distance chat lucky lovers is pretty decent, although I do not use it anymore myself.
I also used to use this site, got laid there a few times:
[url]http://www.bride.ru/[/url]
There is some spam and scamming there, but pretty easy to filter out.
Now I use [url]www.love.mail.ru[/url] a lot... it's also sometimes called "mamba" on this forum since there are many mirror sites that use the same database.
Also [url]www.dating.ru[/url].
You'll need to learn some Russian to navigate the sites... and knowing even a little bit will help you be successful there... most people are looking for people living in their own city and not looking for long-distance relationships. Also, avoid the super hotties. Their pics are great to slobber all over, but they are looking for local rich guys in most cases. Just my 2 cents.
If you want to stick to English, you might try any of the sites popular in the US like Facebook or Myspace. Russians on there too, although I am certain they get lots of attention.... which is probably why they are there in the first place.Lots of slacker culture in Europe and Asia as well... basically anyplace that has had a stable, secure economy over the last 2-3 decades will inherentely develop a culture of chronic underachieving and boredom. It is a shame that pop culture celebrates it so much and that society supports it.[/QUOTE]
Thanks, Bride.ru in "Going For the Gold" mode is just what the doctor ordered, its hard to believe that many attractive women are out there, waiting to be scooped up.
Considering paying for it and glad to hear you have had some success with it.
English speaking is somewhat important but not so important that I won't consider somebody with seriously broken English.
I can't bring myself to do Facebook and My Space. I already have a My Space page and hardly use it, update it or visit it. I feel I'm too old to be on My Space, well besides all the music artist from my youth having pages on there....
Elena's cost too much to join for a limited amount of success so I just buy email addresses as needed. I don't think Bride has those options...
Thanks again, you are the man!
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]Thanks, Bride.ru in "Going For the Gold" mode is just what the doctor ordered, its hard to believe that many attractive women are out there, waiting to be scooped up.
Considering paying for it and glad to hear you have had some success with it.
English speaking is somewhat important but not so important that I won't consider somebody with seriously broken English.
I can't bring myself to do Facebook and My Space. I already have a My Space page and hardly use it, update it or visit it. I feel I'm too old to be on My Space, well besides all the music artist from my youth having pages on there....
Elena's cost too much to join for a limited amount of success so I just buy email addresses as needed. I don't think Bride has those options...
Thanks again, you are the man![/QUOTE]Give it a shot.... I don't know if things have changed since I was using the site 2003-2004, but when I was you could set up a profile for free and girls would write you. You could also click on girls and get their email addresses. I got dozens of letters and chose a few I liked to communicate with which were in cities that I could theoretically visit. The girls I actually ended up meeting (many of which I slept with eventually) were genuine and thankfully not ONLY interested in marriage, although they were more the serious type and not just hobby daters like you find on some other sites.
In any case I think it's worth a shot, especially if you are indeed looking for something genuine.
As for Facebook/My Space... I don't have the time and patience for that stuff.
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]Thanks, Bride.ru in "Going For the Gold" mode is just what the doctor ordered, its hard to believe that many attractive women are out there, waiting to be scooped up.
[/QUOTE]I got a couple of requests for info about bride.ru, as I had mentioned that I had gotten laid off the site a couple of times.
Essentially the situation is the same with the dating sites like mamba:
1) post a good (but real) picture
2) write some things about yourself
3) convey the message that you are often in Russia/Ukraine
4) begin a conversation/banter
5) visit her/meet her within a relatively short time after starting contact
For some people points 3 and 5 are difficult, however both will increase your scoring chances tremendously.
For those who really are looking for a serious relationship/marriage and not just sex, points 3 and 5 can be put on hold, as the marriage-oriented girl is probably open to the idea of leaving Russia. That said, many of the girls on bride.ru were also open to a casual relationship. I never promised the girls anything relationship-wise, so this functioned the same way as the dating sites for me. Bride.ru worked mostly as an email communication platform for me, whereas now I prefer the chat oriented sites as communication is faster.
For a more serious approach, the email will work just fine or maybe even better.
One tip for developing serious relationships. I actually learned this from a girl who was writing me. She would ask specific, somewhat provocative questions, like: "If your house was burning down and you could only save one thing, and you had the choice between your cat and an old family photo album with the last portraits of your grandparents, which would you save?"
Interesting way to get into someone's psyche. By the time we actually met, it was like we knew each other. Still took 2 dates to bed her though.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I got a couple of requests for info about bride.ru, as I had mentioned that I had gotten laid off the site a couple of times.
Essentially the situation is the same with the dating sites like mamba:
1) post a good (but real) picture
2) write some things about yourself
3) convey the message that you are often in Russia/Ukraine
4) begin a conversation/banter
5) visit her/meet her within a relatively short time after starting contact
For some people points 3 and 5 are difficult, however both will increase your scoring chances tremendously.
For those who really are looking for a serious relationship/marriage and not just sex, points 3 and 5 can be put on hold, as the marriage-oriented girl is probably open to the idea of leaving Russia. That said, many of the girls on bride.ru were also open to a casual relationship. I never promised the girls anything relationship-wise, so this functioned the same way as the dating sites for me. Bride.ru worked mostly as an email communication platform for me, whereas now I prefer the chat oriented sites as communication is faster.
For a more serious approach, the email will work just fine or maybe even better.
One tip for developing serious relationships. I actually learned this from a girl who was writing me. She would ask specific, somewhat provocative questions, like: "If your house was burning down and you could only save one thing, and you had the choice between your cat and an old family photo album with the last portraits of your grandparents, which would you save?"
Interesting way to get into someone's psyche. By the time we actually met, it was like we knew each other. Still took 2 dates to bed her though.[/QUOTE]
I agree with #3 and #5. I started speaking with the girl from Kiev from Lucky Lovers. She actually contacted me first.... I haven't had such luck since however. No dates, just spent time together, child in tow at all times, finally hit it twice on the 3rd day. She couldn't resist anymore...lol
But it wasn't worth it, she hit me over the head with second thought nonsense.
I'm dead serious about LTR with a EE babe, I think it can be done and on many times cheaper than many people that use agencies. By using this site, the ISG network of information, I can spend less, beat the odds and come out away ahead.
I think I'll join Bride.ru in Dec, because I'm going to try and go back to Europe in March/April, which would give me time to get closer to somebody before I visit.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]5) visit her/meet her within a relatively short time after starting contact.[/QUOTE]
Right on the money Doc. It literally *boosts* your position to say that you will be on site shortly, especially for secluded destinations such as Tashkent and surely provincial Russia.
I've personally stopped to prepare travel adventures too well in advance, and use dating sites only when I have travel plans within one month at max (or during a stay).
PS : Bride.ru seems not nearly as good as love.mail.ru and LL but maybe worthwhile though ; is there a search fonction by location (city) when you're a silver member ?
[QUOTE=Prosal]I've personally stopped to prepare travel adventures too well in advance, and use dating sites only when I have travel plans within one month at max (or during a stay).[/QUOTE]Exactly. I don't start shopping until max 10-14 days before arrival. It usually works out that I'll have 5-6 good contacts set by touchdown.
If you start too early, 2-3 months before say, you are wasting everybody's time in my opinion... especially your own... unless of course you are "relationship building" on a major scale... however this is bound to lead to disappointment if your only goal is really just 1-2 dates + sex.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]2) write some things about yourself.[/QUOTE]
I find that russian dyevs are more witty, learned, conversant, interesting and susceptible to be charmed with humor and wit than their ukrainian cousins. As they are my main target on LL, I've wrote on my profile (among other entertaining nonsenses but also, to counterbalance, some russian culture references) as "My Likes" : Бухло, секс и шашлыки (booze, sex and pelminis).
It works quite well particularly with the most cosmopolitan and fun ones from Moscow and SPb.
Why cheating anyway ? :)
[QUOTE=Prosal]I find that russian dyevs are more witty, learned, conversant, interesting and susceptible to be charmed with humor and wit than their ukrainian cousins. That's why on my LL profile I wrote (among other entertaining nonsenses but also, to counterbalance, some russian culture references) as "My Likes" : Бухло, секс и шашлыки (booze, sex and pelminis).
It works quite well particularly with the most cosmopolitan and fun ones from Moscow and SPb.
Why cheating anyway ? :)[/QUOTE]True enough, Russian girls are easier going, more "up-to-date" and open than their Ukrainian sisters in my opinion, especially those based in big cities.
BTW: шашлыки translates better as BBQ. Pelmeni is something different, although equally delicious.
You have been warned and don't even think about bringing them to the UK
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank] Pelmeni is something different, although equally delicious.[/QUOTE]
As an expat friend in Moscow pointed out on my last trip to Moscow, the Russian Pelmeni bears a striking similarity to its Ukrainian cousin, Vereneki.
Basically the same food (a dumpling of sorts) Pelmeni differs in shape to Vereneki just a little at point where the two "lips" of dough come together. In the Pelmeni the join often puckers a bit to reveal a small view of stuffing (which can be meat, cheese, or potato) to reveal a hint of what's inside.
Often called Perogi on this continent (NA) the Vereneki are very similar to the Pelmeni in shape but the fold of dough comes together to form a vertical pair of lips (depending on how you hold it) but rather than revealing any of the goodies inside come together to form a smooth join that can be easily parted given the right additive like butter, sour cream or even olive oil.
Does this remind anyone of anything?
Funny how food can often imitate anatomy.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]True enough, Russian girls are easier going, more "up-to-date" and open than their Ukrainian sisters in my opinion, especially those based in big cities.
BTW: шашлыки translates better as BBQ. Pelmeni is something different, although equally delicious.[/QUOTE]Yes, I confirm that. Especially ukrainian girls from provincial cities are very primitive. You can observe the difference when you talk to an ukrainian girl who has a russian friend. Great difference indeed.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Russian a striking similarity to its Ukrainian cousin...Basically the same two "lips" ..what's inside...pair of lips that can be easily parted like butter[/QUOTE]Uh, I get it. But damn, I'll never look at pelmeni the same way again.
Once met a girl on a website who had listed under "things I like": kolbaski/sausages
I met her think it was hide the salami time, unfortunately she really just liked sausages. Took me 3 (!) dates and way too much effort to get her to like mine. )
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Uh, I get it. But damn, I'll never look at pelmeni the same way again.[/QUOTE]
Glad you do Dr. S.
Let me illustrate my point for those who don't quite get the finer points of Slavic cooking.
Bon appetite.....
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
1) post a good (but real) picture
2) write some things about yourself
3) convey the message that you are often in Russia/Ukraine
4) begin a conversation/banter
5) visit her/meet her within a relatively short time after starting contact
For some people points 3 and 5 are difficult, however both will increase your scoring chances tremendously.
[/QUOTE]
As someone who lives in Moscow, I'm envious of all you visiting guys. When I'm travelling (eg Kiev, Piter, Minsk...), it's always easier to schedule my deffki, but when the dyev knows that you live there permanently, they seem less willing to adopt your schedule as when you'll only be in town for a few days. I thought about cooking up a story that I'm just visiting at my brother's place (who's on vacation or a business trip), but not sure I'd be able to sell it. I'm not a very good liar...
[QUOTE]
"If your house was burning down and you could only save one thing, and you had the choice between your cat and an old family photo album with the last portraits of your grandparents, which would you save?"
[/QUOTE]
Shashlik iz kiski anyone? :)
[QUOTE=Jake993]Glad you do Dr. S.
Let me illustrate my point for those who don't quite get the finer points of Slavic cooking.
Bon appetite.....[/QUOTE]I'm hungry.
By the way, ever had those Siberian/Kazakh "manti" type pelmeni, where you have to suck the hot juice out of?
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I'm hungry.
By the way, ever had those Siberian/Kazakh "manti" type pelmeni, where you have to suck the hot juice out of?[/QUOTE]
I need to dig up an old post from my first trip to Almaty. Yikes - I'm starting to shiver just thinking about it......
[QUOTE=Jake993]I need to dig up an old post from my first trip to Almaty. Yikes - I'm starting to shiver just thinking about it......[/QUOTE]Well just in case you forget what it looks like. Don't forget to suck the juice out.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Well just in case you forget what it looks like. Don't forget to suck the juice out.[/QUOTE]
Jeepers Skank, I know you like them skinny but come on! How did you not impale yourself on the girl's pelvic bone?
[QUOTE=Jake993]Jeepers Skank, I know you like them skinny but come on! How did you not impale yourself on the girl's pelvic bone?[/QUOTE]Doggy style?
She wasn't that skinny.. just tall.:)
Sometimes I like a bit more though too. Like this fat ass.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Glad you do Dr. S.
Let me illustrate my point for those who don't quite get the finer points of Slavic cooking.
Bon appetite.....[/QUOTE]Pelmini3 must be one of the most surreal shots I've seen for a while. Is it art, or is it just tasty pelmini? ;)
[QUOTE=Piper1]Pelmini3 must be one of the most surreal shots I've seen for a while. Is it art, or is it just tasty pelmini? ;)[/QUOTE]
Just good investigative photo journalism.
I recently wrote a regular girlfriend that she was something like "super, wonderful, beautiful, loving, sexy, beautiful, passionate, fun, adventurous and wild." Moments later I got back a big mail that 'no one had ever told her such words and she was crying with joy'.
Huh?
I was a bit surprised, as she is the kind of girl I'd expect gets compliments all the time. At the same time, I have often heard from girls that Russian men are terrible about making compliments, preferring to "not spoil" their girls. I am certain there is some cultural value to what they are saying long-term, but it does open the door for us free-tongued foreigners.
Nonetheless, going too early with the "you are beautiful" could come off cheap and slimy.
What are your guys thoughts on using the "b" word, and subsequent compliments?
1) when should it be used?
2) what immediate effect does it have? (positive and negative)
3) what long-term effects can it have? (positive and negative)
Of course I realise there is no standard recipe for everything, but it is worth some thought and discussion in my opinion, as it does get us thinking about what they're thinking and feeling.
Thoughts fellas?
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
Of course I realise there is no standard recipe for everything, but it is worth some thought and discussion in my opinion, as it does get us thinking about what they're thinking and feeling.
Thoughts fellas?[/QUOTE]
Skank,
You bring up a REALLY good topic which is very timely for me personally as I am in the process of courting a 20 something Muscovite lass of good position and breeding. Why? Good question - but let's table that for a moment.
It has been my experience that Russian women have one of the most finely turned bullshit detector systems out there when it comes to false compliments. Unlike other cultures where false praise is expected to be heaped on women like so much manure, Slavic women tend to be more skeptical of praise from men..... especially ones who are trying to get into their pants. For example, you might casually greet a good looking woman acquaintance or colleague by saying, "Hi gorgeous". Try that with a Russian woman and except for the firs time, it will likely be met with a slight cock of the head a slight squint. You know darn well that she's thinking, "OK - what does this pecker head want now?" Try that with a Brazilian woman, and whether it's the first time or the hundred and first time you say it, it's always met with a little twitter and a flirtatious giggle. The Latinas love it.
However, when you offer a carefully considered complement about a Russian woman's inner self, or her a whole (including her drop dead gorgeous body) the response seems to be much more emotional. I agree with you, I don't think Russian women are accustomed to getting sincere compliments from Russian men. It's not a bad thing it's just not in the culture.
For example, I was dating a beautiful blond Muscovite about a year ago. Late 30's, investment banker, smart as a whip, body like a dancer. Could treat the whole world like shit if she wanted to but when it came to waiters, waitresses at Coffee House, the guy collecting tickets at the theater, store clerks, the babushka at the metro begging for money, etc she had a very kind and gentle way about her that made people "beam" when she interacted with them. She was one of these people who would just stick out and shine in a crowd. One night during "pillow talk" I mentioned to her (can't remember the exact words) what a beautiful person I thought she was - not just from her physical appearance but her as a complete person and I told her why I thought so. To my surprise she broke down in tears and told me that was the most wonderful thing anyone had ever said to her and proceeded to screw my brains out. But I digress...... although I was quite sincere in my comment, I really was not prepared for that reaction and it told me something about her and Russian women in general.
Again, try that with the Latinas, and will get the same curious stare that you get when trying to explain quantum physics to your dog. They hear the words but it just does not compute.
Now, this carefully considered praise can have unintended consequences. As we have discussed ad nauseum, Russian women have a whole different attitude to sex and casual relationships than the ones we grew up with in this repressed sex prison we call "the West". BUT - when you dare to cross the emotional threshold, you can get yourself into a whole lot more than what you bargained for. While I have no first hand experience with this myself, I understand that if you get a Russian girl into a relationship that progresses beyond casual sex and then break up with her, you had best be prepared for Armageddon. The old saying about "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned***", was probably coined when dealing with a bad breakup with a Russian chick. Pots and pans - cleavers and knives - daggers and axes - it will get very messy if you choose to sever a relationship with a girl with whom you have taken a voyage with the "B" word. Consider yourself warned.
*** Most people think this phrase was coined by William Shakespeare. In fact, it actually comes from a play called the "The Mourning Bride" (1697) by William Congreve. The complete quote is "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned / Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned."
My 2 kopecs worth....
My email friend recnently decided that she wants to come to US to meet me but, at the last moment, was told that she had to produce $2200 to demonstrate to immigration that she had sufficient funds for her trip, and would not become a burden on either government by being stranded in the US.
The US Embassy website says that there is no such requirement, while the US Dept. Of Homeland Security website does say that Russian tourists will be asked to produce proof of sufficient cash resources.
I don't want to accuse my Russian hottie of a scam. Any advice from those of you with experience would be very helpful!
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I recently wrote a regular girlfriend that she was something like "super, wonderful, beautiful, loving, sexy, beautiful, passionate, fun, adventurous and wild." Moments later I got back a big mail that 'no one had ever told her such words and she was crying with joy'.
Huh?
I was a bit surprised, as she is the kind of girl I'd expect gets compliments all the time. At the same time, I have often heard from girls that Russian men are terrible about making compliments, preferring to "not spoil" their girls. I am certain there is some cultural value to what they are saying long-term, but it does open the door for us free-tongued foreigners.
Nonetheless, going too early with the "you are beautiful" could come off cheap and slimy.
What are your guys thoughts on using the "b" word, and subsequent compliments?
1) when should it be used?
2) what immediate effect does it have? (positive and negative)
3) what long-term effects can it have? (positive and negative)
Of course I realise there is no standard recipe for everything, but it is worth some thought and discussion in my opinion, as it does get us thinking about what they're thinking and feeling.
Thoughts fellas?[/QUOTE]I agree with Russians.I don't compliment them often.And I never say ''I love you'' although they press for it.
grapelli,
every foreign citizen applying for a visa to visit the u.s. must prove to the satisfaction of the consular officer at the embassy where they apply that they intend to return to their country. the decision on whether or not to grant a visa rests solely within the discretion the consular officer, who, may require that the intending applicant provide proof of employment in their country, permanent assets such as real estate, or family members living with them in their country as proof that they will return. a young russian woman applying for a visa to the u.s. is going to get a lot of scrutiny and it's not unusual for the embassy to require that she provide proof that she has the financial assets to pay for her trip.
so, she could very well be telling you the truth or, she could be trying to pull a scam on you. or both.
just how badly do you want to ball this babe anyway?
[quote=grapelli]my email friend recnently decided that she wants to come to us to meet me but, at the last moment, was told that she had to produce $2200 to demonstrate to immigration that she had sufficient funds for her trip, and would not become a burden on either government by being stranded in the us.
the us embassy website says that there is no such requirement, while the us dept. of homeland security website does say that russian tourists will be asked to produce proof of sufficient cash resources.
i don't want to accuse my russian hottie of a scam. any advice from those of you with experience would be very helpful![/quote]
dude, go there instead. if she's serious about you, you can work out all the vista/ins bs later. plan on visiting her at least twice however, as it takes 10-11 months (if no mistakes have been found) to get green card status for russians.
this is why i still like my western european option. its pretty much a "snap" process for eu members to get permits into the us. in fact you can get around it all together and while on a visit you can marry her and complete the process state side but it takes longer to get done, man our red tape is incredible...
a friend of mine (brotha) married an attractive swedish woman (brunette/ice blue eyes) in sweden, got the paperwork done locally and within 6 months of tying up loose ends she's now a us resident of boston, ma
try that with ee women, no way fast track that process...
Many thanks for the replies! The girl in question is very beautiful, but looking for a husband, while I'm more interested in an audition. Meanwhile, I'm getting tearful emails (if you can imagine) about how much she wants to come here, but now she's stranded in Moscow.
[quote=grapelli]my email friend recnently decided that she wants to come to us to meet me but, at the last moment, was told that she had to produce $2200 to demonstrate to immigration that she had sufficient funds for her trip, and would not become a burden on either government by being stranded in the us.
the us embassy website says that there is no such requirement, while the us dept. of homeland security website does say that russian tourists will be asked to produce proof of sufficient cash resources.
i don't want to accuse my russian hottie of a scam. any advice from those of you with experience would be very helpful![/quote]
grapelli
e-mail friend?
she is scamming you. give her the $2,200 and that’s the last you will see of the dev or your money. imho
next thing you will hear is her computer is broken or granny is sick and needs medicine.
there is no set dollar amount that is mandatory to allow the devs to visit the usa.
the consulate looks for ownership of an apartment or house, child, long-term job with verifiable income and a bank account.
also there will be an interview where the consulate will do their best to ask trick questions and find a reason to disqualify her.
the worst thing she can say is she is visiting a friend in the usa.
better she has always wanted to visit hollywood ect….
this advice given to me from a friend in piter allowed me to bring a dev to the states for a few weeks. key thing is i already knew her, not an e-mail friend.
most that apply with out fitting the criteria will not be given visas. do not give her cash up front.
if you end up buying her a plane ticket either use your air miles or buy the ticket with your credit card so it cannot be refunded in cash.
aside from being so cute the devs are both clever and cunning. your dick is not the only thing they are milking.
best thing is to fly there and poke her. while you are there poke another 20 devs for good measure.
thats worth $2,200
guido88
grapelli,
just call the us embassy in moscow and ask what the requirements are in these cases.for example maybe they need documents from your side she never told you about.
[quote=grapelli]my email friend recnently decided that she wants to come to us to meet me but, at the last moment, was told that she had to produce $2200 to demonstrate to immigration that she had sufficient funds for her trip, and would not become a burden on either government by being stranded in the us.
the us embassy website says that there is no such requirement, while the us dept. of homeland security website does say that russian tourists will be asked to produce proof of sufficient cash resources.
i don't want to accuse my russian hottie of a scam. any advice from those of you with experience would be very helpful![/quote]this one of the most frequent scam procedures!
It's true, I have always admired the detached attitude that Russian men have towards their women and we should all be grateful to them for not spoiling them. I guess everything is relative; when you live in a country full of gorgeous women, it takes a lot to impress. Snow is snow, as far as I'm concerned, but the Chukchi can distinguish between a dozen or more different varieties. At some point, Russian men begin to distinguish between different levels of gorgeousness (is that a word?). Wouldn't we all like to live a life like that. (sigh)
I agree with Jake, I'm not sure the "b" word has that much effect on Russian women. They expect it, and as we all know... men only have 1 thing on their mind, right? Despite their cynical exterior, however, Russian women are actually extremely fragile and delicate. But you can't get at them with money and power. Somehow, you have to touch their Русская Душа (Russian Soul).
The two qualities that Russian women admire most in a man are kindness and generosity, probably because these are the qualities that are most lacking in Russian men. But this is not the kindness of, "I will let you shine my shoes", or the generosity of, "I have a billion Euros, so I can pay you 1,000 to sit at a table in your nightclub".
Russian woman have a wonderful way of separating sex from emotion. Give her the keys to a new Beemer and she will squeal with delight and give you a peck on the cheek and, after she returns from her joy ride, most likely, fuck your brains out, because she understands that payment is expected. But, if you stop to give the flower girl an extra 200r and present her with a fresh bouquet of vasil'ki, she will glow like the sunrise of a Siberian dawn. From that point on, she better not catch you fucking anyone else.
And that gets back to the concept of the Russkaya Dushah. Because no matter how much money or power may be offered to her, for a Russian woman, the ultimate goal of life is the satisfaction of the soul.
So, yes, use the "b" word as much as you want, shower her with gifts and take her out on the town, that is the safest approach. Just be careful not to touch her Russkaya Dushah unless you are absolutely serious about her. Because as Jake has pointed out, an enraged slavic female is like a force of nature. It cannot be stopped, it cannot be controlled or even directed, all you can do is find a safe refuge and wait until the storm passes.
But, it's a hell of a ride! :)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]I agree with Jake, I'm not sure the "b" word has that much effect on Russian women. They expect it, and as we all know... men only have 1 thing on their mind, right? Despite their cynical exterior, however, Russian women are actually extremely fragile and delicate. But you can't get at them with money and power. Somehow, you have to touch their Русская Душа (Russian Soul).
So, yes, use the "b" word as much as you want, shower her with gifts and take her out on the town, that is the safest approach. Just be careful not to touch her Russkaya Dushah unless you are absolutely serious about her. )[/QUOTE]I've got a bit of a mystery girl on tap tonight. We've fucked several times already, but still there is nothing automatic about it. Most girls once you've had them will fuck you every time you meet. Not her.
I like to call her a "wind-up doll". I have to entertain her before she'll put out. Nothing terribly expensive, just dinner and dancing.. but still more than I am used to with the regulars who are often happy staying in. Normally I wouldn't put so much effort into a girl, but the sex is out of this world. Great body, perfect sensual blowjobs and loud, grunting and moaning her-ankles-by-her-ears sex.
Maybe she is just a good player. She knows how to make herself more desirable.
Even though we both know that it doesn't have a future since she has often stated that at 23 she needs to find a husband and I've told her I am not it, I still honestly have to ask myself how far I want to push it. What will I do with her if she suddenly does crack and really become smitten, her russkaya dusha having been touched? That'll make the inevitable break up that much harder.
One of the hazards of this game. It can be rough on the psyche if one is not careful. I shudder to think of what we put these girls through sometimes.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank] That'll make the inevitable break up that much harder. One of the hazards of this game. It can rough on the psyche if one is not careful.[/QUOTE]
I think David Bowie said it best.... [I]"putting out the fire with ....<da da da> .....gas-o-line!!!!!!"[/I]
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Even though we both know that it doesn't have a future since she has often stated that at 23 she needs to find a husband and I've told her I am not it[/QUOTE]Doc,
There is the reality of what we are told, and the reality of what we believe. It can be difficult sometimes to sort them out. Maybe you told her that you won't cum in her mouth, do you think she [i]believes[/i] that? :)
If you think she's holding back now, imagine what the sex will be like when she finally does become smitten? Боже мой (my God)! If I were you, I'd gather up all the knives in the kitchen now, and put them away for safe keeping. ;)
Either that, or you could always get married.... :D
I'm never one for second hand info but...
Does marry the chick overseas qualify you to bring her back home (the US) ASAP?
I figure the easiest way to get away from all the US Gov BS - endless questions and forms for both you and her (which gotten worst under W) is to just marry the girl in her homeland.
Egads, what am I saying? :)
[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney] A friend of mine (Brotha) married an attractive Swedish woman (Brunette/Ice Blue Eyes) in Sweden, got the paperwork done locally and within 6 months of tying up loose ends she's now a US resident of Boston, MA
Try that with EE women, no way fast track that process...[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Doc,
If I were you, I'd gather up all the knives in the kitchen now, and put them away for safe keeping. ;)
[/QUOTE]I'm a slow learner. :)
Actually this is a pic of a different girl... also totally different character than the wind-up-doll. Just wants to stay in and fuck. I can deal with that.
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]Does marry the chick overseas qualify you to bring her back home (the US) ASAP?[/QUOTE]Cruiser,
No, marrying a Russian girl in Russia does NOT automatically qualify her to return to the U.S.
It DOES qualify her to apply for a visa to the U.S. as an immigrant, based on the fact that she is the spouse of a U.S. citizen. But, you will still have to go through all the BS and paperwork, six months to a year. As your spouse, however, her approval is (theoretically) guaranteed.
Why don't you try a Fiance visa, can't remember the letter off-hand, I'm thinking it's an F? With a Fiance visa she can come to the U.S. for 90 days so that you can try her out. :) You will need to prove that the two of you have actually met, in person. And you can only apply for 1 at a time. After the 3rd or 4th, the Embassy might start to doubt your sincerity. :)
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Actually this is a pic of a different girl...[/QUOTE]HA!
OK, fess up, was this pic posed? Or did you just fetch it from your vast foto gallery?
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]HA!
OK, fess up, was this pic posed? Or did you just fetch it from your vast foto gallery?[/QUOTE]I like the girl with knife imagery. Actually I have several girl with knife pictures... it's a new one though, just happened to match your post. If you have any requests however, I'll be happy to arrange something. Girl with RPG? )
I still have a lot of test driving to do in the FSU before I want to change venues. I was just curious. You would think given the 12 million or so illegals in the country they would give a citizen the benefit of the doubt that he married for all the right reasons.
From what I understand the fiancée visa rules changed with the new mail (internet) order bride regs a couple of years ago. Making it, of course, more restrictive and harder to do. It's too bad the current administration and Congress didn't feel the finance regulations needed to become more draconian too.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky] Why don't you try a Fiance visa, can't remember the letter off-hand, I'm thinking it's an F? With a Fiance visa she can come to the U.S. for 90 days so that you can try her out. :) You will need to prove that the two of you have actually met, in person. And you can only apply for 1 at a time. After the 3rd or 4th, the Embassy might start to doubt your sincerity. :)[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]I still have a lot of test driving to do in the FSU before I want to change venues. I was just curious. You would think given the 12 million or so illegals in the country they would give a citizen the benefit of the doubt that he married for all the right reasons.
From what I understand the fiancée visa rules changed with the new mail (internet) order bride regs a couple of years ago. Making it, of course, more restrictive and harder to do. It's too bad the current administration and Congress didn't feel the finance regulations needed to become more draconian too.[/QUOTE]
Actually that information isn't really second hand.
First Sweden is on that "list" of countries that Russia, Ukraine, Moldova and most EE countries are not on, which makes movement as a citizen of say Russia a bit more difficult.
Because of the cozy relationship with the EU, you don't need a visa to visit America for 90 days and paperwork is a SNAP if you get married, they don't assume something shady...
US Military men marry women from where they are stationed OFTEN, they don't have any problems bringing them back, neither should you.
Now if we had a nice relationship with Russia.... Things would be MUCH easier.
As you, I'm still kicking tires.....
I've been trying to get a few Ukrainian girls to do the hot Commisar Girl vs the American Capitalist Dog but no one has bitten yet. Of course I only do this with the educated slightly older (who know what I'm talking about) girls.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I like the girl with knife imagery. Actually I have several girl with knife pictures... it's a new one though, just happened to match your post. If you have any requests however, I'll be happy to arrange something. Girl with RPG? )[/QUOTE]
And DJ, I'm not trying to discredit you. But by defination unless you are the one who did it it's second hand.
[QUOTE=Cruiser D]I've been trying to get a few Ukrainian girls to do the hot Commisar Girl vs the American Capitalist Dog but no one has bitten yet. Of course I only do this with the educated slightly older (who know what I'm talking about) girls.
And DJ, I'm not trying to discredit you. But by defination unless you are the one who did it it's second hand.[/QUOTE]
I agree, it just usually "second hand" in our culture means " not creditable"
No offense taken playa... Cruiser Zhivago... I thought you were Cruiser "D" though - ;)
I'd like to play the role of Sasha Dith in the Russian Girls video. :)
Doc, just to let you know he came out with a super lame American Boy song.
I haven't read everything about your matter, just I wonder I was unlucky because all my Slavic women wanted a phisical and mental strong man, always with a smile on his mouth, a very fast decisionist (sorry for my english), a cynical behaviour where each one tries to get the maximum from the other and no respect for the "good boy" or the "gentleman": this is the meaning of "? " that we often read in profiles.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]It's true, I have always admired the detached attitude that Russian men have towards their women and we should all be grateful to them for not spoiling them. I guess everything is relative; when you live in a country full of gorgeous women, it takes a lot to impress. Snow is snow, as far as I'm concerned, but the Chukchi can distinguish between a dozen or more different varieties. At some point, Russian men begin to distinguish between different levels of gorgeousness (is that a word?). Wouldn't we all like to live a life like that. (sigh)
I agree with Jake, I'm not sure the "b" word has that much effect on Russian women. They expect it, and as we all know... men only have 1 thing on their mind, right? Despite their cynical exterior, however, Russian women are actually extremely fragile and delicate. But you can't get at them with money and power. Somehow, you have to touch their Русская Душа (Russian Soul).
The two qualities that Russian women admire most in a man are kindness and generosity, probably because these are the qualities that are most lacking in Russian men. But this is not the kindness of, "I will let you shine my shoes", or the generosity of, "I have a billion Euros, so I can pay you 1,000 to sit at a table in your nightclub".
Russian woman have a wonderful way of separating sex from emotion. Give her the keys to a new Beemer and she will squeal with delight and give you a peck on the cheek and, after she returns from her joy ride, most likely, fuck your brains out, because she understands that payment is expected. But, if you stop to give the flower girl an extra 200r and present her with a fresh bouquet of vasil'ki, she will glow like the sunrise of a Siberian dawn. From that point on, she better not catch you fucking anyone else.
And that gets back to the concept of the Russkaya Dushah. Because no matter how much money or power may be offered to her, for a Russian woman, the ultimate goal of life is the satisfaction of the soul.
So, yes, use the "b" word as much as you want, shower her with gifts and take her out on the town, that is the safest approach. Just be careful not to touch her Russkaya Dushah unless you are absolutely serious about her. Because as Jake has pointed out, an enraged slavic female is like a force of nature. It cannot be stopped, it cannot be controlled or even directed, all you can do is find a safe refuge and wait until the storm passes.
But, it's a hell of a ride! :)[/QUOTE]
just a question for you, u.s. citizens abroad, but do your embassies and consulates work and help you around the world?
because italian embassies do less than nothing and italian citizens abroad prefer to avoid them.
[quote=hecker]grapelli,
just call the us embassy in moscow and ask what the requirements are in these cases.for example maybe they need documents from your side she never told you about.[/quote]
[QUOTE=Acolonizer] a cynical behaviour where each one tries to get the maximum from the other and no respect for the "good boy" or the "gentleman": this is the meaning of "? " that we often read in profiles.[/QUOTE]Not sure what is your question.
It sounds like you met many slavic women who want a strong decisive man, but this is a problem because the relationship is cynical and manipulative?
[QUOTE=Acolonizer]Just a question for you, U.S. citizens abroad, but do your embassies and consulates work and help you around the world?
Because Italian embassies do less than NOTHING and Italian citizens abroad prefer to avoid them.[/QUOTE]
I've only needed American Citizen Services for simple clerical stuff, but they've always treated me promptly and politely.
The fiancee visa is the K-1 visa. If you bring a woman over here on a K-1 and then send her back, you have to wait two years until you can do it again.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Cruiser,
No, marrying a Russian girl in Russia does NOT automatically qualify her to return to the U.S.
It DOES qualify her to apply for a visa to the U.S. as an immigrant, based on the fact that she is the spouse of a U.S. citizen. But, you will still have to go through all the BS and paperwork, six months to a year. As your spouse, however, her approval is (theoretically) guaranteed.
Why don't you try a Fiance visa, can't remember the letter off-hand, I'm thinking it's an F? With a Fiance visa she can come to the U.S. for 90 days so that you can try her out. :) You will need to prove that the two of you have actually met, in person. And you can only apply for 1 at a time. After the 3rd or 4th, the Embassy might start to doubt your sincerity. :)[/QUOTE]
I was out the other night in Moscow with a friend whom I'll call Steve. On an average night, Steve's hooking up with twice the number of girls I am, maybe because of his looks but just as likely because he's completely fearless on the approach. I'm the type that requires some "liquid courage" to improve my approach/odds. Anyway, we're at Che and a couple of cute girls pop in at 1am looking for a table. Steve motions for the girls to join us, and after a few seconds of glancing at us and discussing between themselves, they sit down at our table.
The blonde (Tanya) is the less attractive of the two - not fat, but not fit either - C cups, dirty blonde curly hair and a gap between her front teeth which doesn't bother me, but turns Steve off big time. Steve's big on straight teeth and hygine. Once at HD, he scolded me for flirting with a wasp-waisted girl with big natural tits and ass. "Did you see her [i]hands[/i]? They're fucked up, dude. You do [b]not[/b] want those wrapped around your cock - I'm telling you that." Anyway... the brunette (Natasha) is a total spinner sporting a short, skin tight dress with wide cinch belt highlighting her impossibly small waist (I'm guessing no more than 22 inches), pert tits (somewhere between an A and a B cup) and modestly sized but shapely behind. Her face is quite cute, and she looks to be around 21 (she turned out to be 24, while the blonde is 27).
Tanya tells us she wants to dance and so I hit the floor with her. I'm not exaggerating to say that she dances better than any go-go dancer I'd ever seen - spinning, grinding, shaking, flipping her hair... the entire bar is gawking at her while she does her thing. When we return to the table for a break, Natasha and Steve are getting cozy. Well - I thought - he's getting the younger and better looking one, but mine looks like she'd fuck like a banshee. Among other things, I ask them where they met - if they went to university together or worked together. Well, they're sisters! Given the difference in hair and eye color, it hadn't occurred to me that their nose and face shape in general were nearly identical.
We chat a bit but the girls speak zero English and Steve doesn't speak any Russky. So I play interpreter for a while, entertaining myself by "spicing up" the conversation by adding a little sexual innuendo here and there. But I can't keep that up for too long, and return to dance some more with Tanya, making out on the dance floor. Surprisingly, she doesn't kiss nearly as well as she dances - her tongue is rigid not soft and the motions she makes with it are jerky and not at all fluid - maybe I'm just a kissing snob but I've had a lot better. When we return from our make-out/dancing session, Natasha is now doing her nails at the table, looking bored out of her mind, and I ask Steve why he hasn't asked her to dance. Turns out he's asked her no less than 7 times and she has turned him down each time. I then ask Tanya what the hell is up with her sister, and why she doesn't like a good looking guy like Steve. She giggles a little, and then says so softly I can barely make it out in the loud club "It seems to me that she likes you."
Meanwhile Steve is checking out other viable options in our immediate vicinity: 2 brunettes at 11 o'clock, a blonde at 6 o'clock and a tall, buxom girl in a leopard-print dress at 9 o'clock who's had uninterrupted eye contact with him for the past 5 minutes. He gets up to talk to her and I look over at Natasha to see her burning holes in me with her eyes and unabashedly biting on her dark, silky locks. I ask her to dance and after a minute, she straddles my right leg and starts humping it like a dog for the remainder of the song, her face pressed hard against my chest. She'd already confessed that she has a pierced clit that gives her orgasms easily, so I was thinking she might start coming right then and there! God, I love Russia!
So, to recap. Both sisters are hot for me. Steve doesn't want to leave me without a wingman, but he's getting no love despite his efforts. I don't want to subject him to any more abuse. I also don't get the feeling that the girls would split up. In my alcohol-addled brain, I enumerate the following possible strategies:
A) Make a play for a Pizdyets sandwich on Russian sister bread
B) Switch my focus to Natasha completely and try to convince Steve to pursue Tanya, despite that she's a step down from her little sister
C) Continue drinking and hope that Natasha warms to Steve as her blood-alcohol ratio reaches 1:1
Despite the fact that a menage-a-trois with sisters would fulfill a major fantasy of mine, I didn't get the feeling that it'd actually happen. Still - it was worth a try and I floated the idea with each of them only to get "as if I would share you with [b]her[/b]" expressions in return. Yeah, this was only gonna happen in my dreams.
Though Steve would have jumped on the grenade for me and started working it with Tanya while I closed the deal with Natasha, I opted for choice C and ordered another round of drinks. Long story short (well, shorter) - Natasha got an SMS and started pushing for a change of venue - namely to Parisian Life. Tanya didn't want to leave, but most of Steve's potential targets had already packed up and left, and I was hoping there might be more available meat waiting for him there. So, we hopped in a taxi and headed over.
The crowd density was about the same as Che, with a few cute girls still left. More drinks, more dancing... Occassionally, the girls were both talking to other guys whom they obviously knew. When we accused them of having boyfriends and duping us, they would promptly shove their tongues down our throats (and in Steve's case, Natasha was even flashing him her pierced pussy). At 5am, it was emptying out, and I asked them if they'd like to continue the party at my place. That's when Tanya told me that she needed to be home in an hour to pick up her 6 year old daughter from babushka, but that she wanted to fuck me later in the week. I then asked Natasha what sort of plans she had, and she said that she would do whatever her sister did. No surprise there - just as I expected. At this point, both Steve and I were blitzed drunk and decided they just weren't worth it. We bailed without bothering to get digits or even say goodbye.
Now, the question... where and when did we go wrong? This had one-night-stand written all over it from the start.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Now, the question... where and when did we go wrong? This had one-night-stand written all over it from the start.[/QUOTE]Sounds like you ended up in a sub-optimal, non-cooperative Nash equilibrium. Instead of everyone working together for the optimal outcome, to wit: the fuck of the century, each of the players dissipated their energy on their own specific goals, until finally, there was no incentive to play.
I can guarantee you the outcome would have been much different with a wingman who spoke Russian.
But then, armchair mongering is always easier than when you're drunk and horny and Natasha is riding your leg and Tanya has her tongue down your throat. :)
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Now, the question... where and when did we go wrong? This had one-night-stand written all over it from the start.[/QUOTE]I think you played it pretty well, but 3 thoughts:
* one of the best times to go home is when changing the venue (just go to apartment instead of actually going to second club). It's gutsy, but it does actually work sometimes, especially if you sell it cheekily.
* with 2 sisters, you were probably doomed from the start. Perhaps giving the one you liked the "now or never, I'm leaving" would have been more effective.
* your wingman had to jump on the grenade. MOH time.
You know this as well as I do, but the ONLY thing that matters is getting back to the apartment. Any excuse or reason to do so is acceptable.
But back to point 2, if she had to pick up her kid (provided the story was true and not some copout) you had virtually no chance. The girls enjoyed the windup and would have almost certainly given you the gratitude fuck later in the week, but you were swimming against the tide for the ONS.
Am jealous anyway, she sounded hot as bricks.
Good analysis, Doc.
Yeah, I could have possibly pulled Tanya for a quick poke at my pad after Che, when her sister was going to Parizhskaya Zhizn. She was clearly not happy about going there, and in the car I could hear her whispering that she might leave Natasha at the club (after I learned about her kid - it makes sense).
Maybe I should have gotten their digits before jamming. But here's why I didn't. Tanya was a great dancer but a poor kisser. Poor kissers usually make poor lovers (at least in my experience). As for the hot younger sister, even when I was speaking with her when we were alone, it wasn't clear she was really interested in [i]me[/i]. More like it was a game and she couldn't let her sister win. Had her sister been sitting at home with her kid and she had been out with girlfriends instead, she may have behaved completely differently (that's to say, completely indifferent towards me).
Strav - yes, probably would have had a different dynamic if my wingman spoke Russian. But I'm rarely in that situation, as I don't party often with Russian guys and most of my expat friends speak little/no Russian. Though it's tiring to play translator all the time, it does at least make you feel needed!
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Maybe I should have gotten their digits before jamming. But here's why I didn't. Tanya was a great dancer but a poor kisser. Poor kissers usually make poor lovers (at least in my experience). As for the hot younger sister, even when I was speaking with her when we were alone, it wasn't clear she was really interested in [i]me[/i]. More like it was a game and she couldn't let her sister win. Had her sister been sitting at home with her kid and she had been out with girlfriends instead, she may have behaved completely differently (that's to say, completely indifferent towards me).[/QUOTE]Could be.
I find that if I get a girl's digits at a club, even if we've had each others tongues down each others throats and hands down each others pants, there is absolutely no guarantee that a second date will even occur. Especially the younger girls (18-20) are often just looking to make out with some guy in the club to complete their club experience, but don't want it to go any farther and often enough are in a troupe of like-minded dev guards who'll make sure she doesn't leave alone. If her group is more than 2 your chances diminish significantly, although on a few occasions I've taken groups as large as 4 back to the apartment to screw one of them while the other three raided the fridge and watched TV.
Digits are easy enough to get and if the second date does happen however, it'll result in sex the vast majority of the time... still I've pursued numerous second dates with cuties that never ended up happening though. Moscow has a way of swallowing girls up.
You might find this funny. For me it is proof once again that being forward is the only way to go.
A while ago I met a 22-year old online and we'd had cocktails at Pyramida and I tried to take her back to my apartment on the first date, but she balked and ran off into the night. So rather than setting up a second date at some neutral location, I told her to meet me in my hotel where I was staying at the time, specifically in the hotel bar at 11.30 pm since I had been working all day and still had some things to do. She agreed and when she arrived I put 2 glasses of Shiraz into her 45kg body, the subject turned to sex and I told her I didn't want to talk about sex since I knew so much more about it than she did and she couldn't teach me anything or tell me anything of interest. Her eyes got big and she apologized for not fucking me on the first date and we went upstairs.
It was pretty funny because there was a guy at the adjacent table struggling to get his girl upstairs with romantic words and she wasn't budging.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]although on a few occasions I've taken groups as large as 4 back to the apartment to screw one of them while the other three raided the fridge and watched TV.
[/QUOTE]
This is as impressive as any of your stories, Doc. Hats off.
[QUOTE]
I told her I didn't want to talk about sex since I knew so much more about it than she did and she couldn't teach me anything or tell me anything of interest. Her eyes got big and she apologized for not fucking me on the first date and we went upstairs.
It was pretty funny because there was a guy at the adjacent table struggling to get his girl upstairs with romantic words and she wasn't budging.[/QUOTE]
It's amazing how effective the cocky asshole approach can be. But in essence, it's the same reason we're intrigued by girls who play hard-to-get (to a point) while we quickly bore of the easy lay. Part of it is the personal challenge, but there's also something hardwired in all of us - that good things always come at a price.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets] But in essence, it's the same reason we're intrigued by girls who play hard-to-get (to a point) while we quickly bore of the easy lay. Part of it is the personal challenge, but there's also something hardwired in all of us - that good things always come at a price.[/QUOTE]Right on.
Yeah, the old psychological crutch. If he/she wants me, how great can they be?
Thankfully, sometimes hormones prevail. )
Two beautiful Russian women. I do not speak Russian I wish I did. Why do I get the feeling that it is fake? I do not speak french either. The guy speaks french.
[url]http://www.keezmovies.com/394070[/url]
[url]http://www.keezmovies.com/430014[/url]
Dr X first girl is Hungarian actually, porn star named Victoria something.
She made numerous porn flick like more than 10 years ago.
Second girl is actually from Ukraine she made few porns under name of Stella and is long gone.
They can be found on EBI.
The guy is Pierre Woodman, french cop turned porn producer and the clips are from his "Casting" series made in 1992-95 or something.
All have the same scenario going like girl comes answering modelling ad, then she dicovers it's actually porn and she don't want to do it. But Pierre convice her to do sex in various way including anal.
It' not real situation but script girls are payed of course.
I
Thanks Kurenda you have confirmed my doubts.
[QUOTE=Kurenda]Dr X first girl is Hungarian actually, porn star named Victoria something.
She made numerous porn flick like more than 10 years ago.
Second girl is actually from Ukraine she made few porns under name of Stella and is long gone.
They can be found on EBI.
The guy is Pierre Woodman, french cop turned porn producer and the clips are from his "Casting" series made in 1992-95 or something.
All have the same scenario going like girl comes answering modelling ad, then she dicovers it's actually porn and she don't want to do it. But Pierre convice her to do sex in various way including anal.
It' not real situation but script girls are payed of course.
I[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Kurenda]
The guy is Pierre Woodman, french cop turned porn producer and the clips are from his "Casting" series made in 1992-95 or something.
All have the same scenario going like girl comes answering modelling ad, then she dicovers it's actually porn and she don't want to do it. But Pierre convice her to do sex in various way including anal.
It' not real situation but script girls are payed of course.
I[/QUOTE]
Woodman fake!!!!
Please say it ain't so Joe.
[QUOTE=Kurenda]
They can be found on EBI.
[/QUOTE]
First girl is:
[url]http://www.eurobabeindex.com/sbandoindex/viktoria.html[/url]
Don't think the second girl is on EBI, nor did I detect a Ukrainian accent.
I did have a really hard time understanding Pierre's translator (as did the model - you could see the "WTF?" face more than once trying to understand what the hell she's saying).
[QUOTE]
All have the same scenario going like girl comes answering modelling ad, then she dicovers it's actually porn and she don't want to do it. But Pierre convice her to do sex in various way including anal.
It' not real situation but script girls are payed of course.
[/QUOTE]
I think most are real, in the sense the girls aren't acting. Sure, the "virgins" have probably had sex more than they claimed, but they're real girls who probably haven't done porn before. I love the way Pierre is able to manipulate some really hot amateurs into becoming porn stars. Of course he's greasing the wheels with cash, but it's damn impressive all the same.
Have a copy od DVD with second girl I think it's "Castings #25" or something.
Basically in the clip it leads to conclusion that girl is from St. Petersburg but listening to conversation where Woodman says like "you're from St. Petersburg, I know I payed for your ticket" and later the girl answers something like "I ARRIVED from St. Petersburg" which can mean she took the plane from St. Petersburg but can actually be from any place in FSU.
Also before her segment starts there's a "you can see her in. " and images of 4 films with her.
About the first girl, Victoria from Hungary I've read on some forum that she had a short career in porn, moved to Uk and is now married to a guy in Newcaslte upon Tyne who owns a butcher shop!
In the full movie there is behind the scenes secmeng where Woodman explains the girl what will be done and the girl signs document they are of the full age and doing this by their free will (and for money of course) and Woodman take the picture of the girls face where she holds the passport with data in one hand and newspaper from the day of the filming.
I like Woodman works too minus all those body hair on him.
He made a mistake of marrying a Russian woman, pornstar Tania Russof who later divorced him and the story is she took big money from Woodman and invested in TV station back in her native Lithuania. Or maybe Latvia, I'm not sure but she's from a Baltic state. Woodman is today married with another porn girl but I'm not sure which one. Maybe this one:
[url]http://www.eurobabeindex.com/sbandoindex/kathy.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Kurenda]
About the first girl, Victoria from Hungary I've read on some forum that she had a short career in porn, moved to Uk and is now married to a guy in Newcaslte upon Tyne who owns a butcher shop!
[/QUOTE]
LOL Kurenda!
Do you think she's taking advice from Evgenia Tymoshenko, perhaps :)
[QUOTE=Angus Magee]Woodman fake!!!!
Please say it ain't so Joe.[/QUOTE]
Hey Angus!
What are you doing in here? :)
Gergiev no because this Hungarian girl did it before Evgenia Tymoshenko back in 2002 if the info is correct. Evgenia Tymoshenko married her Britt in 2005 and they are living in Kiev and not in UK.
[QUOTE=Gergiev]Hey Angus!
What are you doing in here? :)[/QUOTE]
Just checking out one of the more interesting threads (other than the Berlin thread of course;-) on the ISG.
[QUOTE=Angus Magee]Just checking out one of the more interesting threads (other than the Berlin thread of course;-) on the ISG.[/QUOTE]
Angus, you’re far too modest…
In fact, your appearance here may yet turn out to be possibly the most serious incursion from Germany into our sovereign Russian space since Matthias Rust flew his Cessna into Red Square in 1987!
What I need to know now is whether the German government had foreknowledge of your intervention here?
And what is the nature of your mission?
Now, let me hazard a guess…
…scouting for the next Ella or Aida, perhaps? :-)
[QUOTE=Gergiev]Angus, you’re far too modest…
In fact, your appearance here may yet turn out to be possibly the most serious incursion from Germany into our sovereign Russian space since Matthias Rust flew his Cessna into Red Square in 1987!
What I need to know now is whether the German government had foreknowledge of your intervention here?
And what is the nature of your mission?
Now, let me hazard a guess…
…scouting for the next Ella or Aida, perhaps? :-)[/QUOTE]
Egads!!! My cover may have been compromised.
I am in fact an international man of mystery and the German government will disavow all knowledge of my identity.
Having tasted, and indeed almost drowned in, the nectar of the Russian women (Ella, Aida et. al.) in that den of iniquity known as Artemis, I find myself drawn to the source with the hope of finding a cure for my cravings.
Perhaps all is indeed lost....
OK, all right, I give up, who the *&%~ is AngusMagee? :)
And what is Artemis? If there is a den of iniquity in Moscow I haven't heard of, then I want to find out about this place.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]OK, all right, I give up, who the *&%~ is AngusMagee? :)
And what is Artemis? If there is a den of iniquity in Moscow I haven't heard of, then I want to find out about this place.[/QUOTE]
Strav, you gotta start posting in the "Berlin" and "FKK Artemis - Berlin" threads - just for grins. :)
[QUOTE=Angus Magee]
Having tasted, and indeed almost drowned in, the nectar of the Russian women (Ella, Aida et. al.) in that den of iniquity known as Artemis, I find myself drawn to the source with the hope of finding a cure for my cravings.
[/QUOTE]
And to think how long it was before you darkened the door of that (Artemis) establishment ...
Talk about the zeal of the convert :-)
Well I did get to pop the cherry ass of a 45 kg 19-year old spinner last night, but in her post-coital glee the silly cow posted some pics I took of her a while back on my profile of one of those networking sites and another girl saw them before I could take them down.
So while I am happy about busting the booty of the one girl, now I have to deal with an extremely irate gf going all drama on me. Regrettably, she is one of my favorites and one I actually like a lot. She seems really, really, really, really angry. Probably gonna throw all our lovey-dovey memory shit into the Neva. Hope she doesn't go crazy Ivana on me and carpet-bomb my contacts with vengeful garble.
Am in a bit of a tailspin now, gonna have to fuck my way out of it. )
Fucking transparency of technology. It's a killer.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Well I did get to pop the cherry ass of a 45 kg 19-year old spinner last night, [/QUOTE] Yikes!!! Congratulations on the conquest but "damn", that does seem like a bit pickle you've ended up in. I have often wondered how long it was going to take me to get caught in my little "webs of sin" I have created for myself in both Moscow and Rio de Janeiro. Reading your story makes my sphincter tighten. I think it's time to start another degree of separation and start changing up usernames and taking more effort to disguise my photos.
[QUOTE=Jake993]Yikes!!! Congratulations on the conquest but "damn", that does seem like a bit pickle you've ended up in. I have often wondered how long it was going to take me to get caught in my little "webs of sin" I have created for myself in both Moscow and Rio de Janeiro. Reading your story makes my sphincter tighten. I think it's time to start another degree of separation and start changing up usernames and taking more effort to disguise my photos.[/QUOTE]Well, it was ugly for awhile but drama does have a way of getting a girls juices flowing and it ended up in the perfect situation. I've got my backdoor out and she's still up for booty calls. C'est la vie... :)
"я понимаю, что я не одна девушка в твоей жизни, но смотреть на других -это слишком больно для меня!! я никогда тебя ни о чем не спрашивала, но эти фотографии...ты сделал мне очень больно...
мне так плохо сейчас, мне так плохо без тебя!!!!!! ты слишком важен для меня!!!
но......я все ещё злюсь на тебя!!!!!!!!! "
She's still angry, but wants to see me again... which only means she's going to bite and scratch the hell out of me when we fuck... :)
It really doesn't hurt to be the jerk now and again as long as you can sweet talk them when they need that. Being only a jerk or only nice will not work.
But still, this damn technology thing is a nightmare. ) Be careful gents!
Reason No. 6
Your Russian girlfriend calls you. She has just found out that you gave another girlfriend a new BMW. She is furious because:
a) she is shocked to discover that you have another girlfriend.
b) she just realized that you have been fucking someone else.
c) she wants a BMW too.
The answer is... C.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Reason No. 6
Your Russian girlfriend calls you. She has just found out that you gave another girlfriend a new BMW. She is furious because:
a) she is shocked to discover that you have another girlfriend.
b) she just realized that you have been fucking someone else.
c) she wants a BMW too.
The answer is... C.[/QUOTE]
Not any BMW. But a better one. :)
So, I realize this site is for P4P discussions, but I had a question for those more familiar with Russian culture. I'm headed out for a 2 week trip to Moscow and St. Petersburg and will have a Russian colleague accompanying me. Question is: has anyone tried using locals to do the picking up for them at local bars/clubs? Is is successful? I'm talking about the non-expat places where you may find a few students or regular women looking to make a few extra bucks. I'm definitely going to ask my colleague about such places but wanted to know if anyone has done this before.
[QUOTE=Dr X Man]Two beautiful Russian women. I do not speak Russian I wish I did. Why do I get the feeling that it is fake? I do not speak french either. The guy speaks french.
[url]http://www.keezmovies.com/394070[/url]
[url]http://www.keezmovies.com/430014[/url][/QUOTE]LOL That was tough... (especially the anal in the end, she must have suffered)
I wonder if the situation is real or if it is a scenario, the girl says she does modelling and he convinced her to do porn to get more money.
This guy is one of the biggest porno maker, and all his videos are the same: he is making the recruitment himself.
This is why the girls are always models, and he tries to convinces them to work for him for better money. I think that all videos are real as really, he might be the biggest porno maker, so...
I personally do not like such videos as the guy is always insulting the girls in french, treating them really like shit. Disgusting for me. But models usually are of the highest level.
[QUOTE=Passepartout]This guy is one of the biggest porno maker, and all his videos are the same: he is making the recruitment himself.
This is why the girls are always models, and he tries to convinces them to work for him for better money. I think that all videos are real as really, he might be the biggest porno maker, so...
I personally do not like such videos as the guy is always insulting the girls in french, treating them really like shit. Disgusting for me. But models usually are of the highest level.[/QUOTE]I like his videos and his way of "disarming" women with personal questions etc. It's a study in sociology.
I don't believe all of the background stories though... for example his "first time girls" who have never touched a cock and then give a professional blowjob.
I've been with several virgins and they almost all require training before they get it right.
[QUOTE=Passepartout]the guy is always insulting the girls in french[/QUOTE]
Not really. I personally find him rather witty and entertaining during his "interviews".
Nonetheless, agree, he uses quite rude words when he fuks ....but isn't it a must-do with russian dyevs ? :)
He is Pierre Woodman and there is a whole series of these called Private Castings.
[QUOTE=Prosal]Not really. I personally find him rather witty and entertaining during his "interviews".
Nonetheless, agree, he uses quite rude words when he fuks ....but isn't it a must-do with russian dyevs ? :)[/QUOTE]
Prosal, I'm with you on this. Most of my friends would say I'm one of the nicest people they've met. And so it took me most of my adult life to realize that girls really don't want to be treated nice (no matter how often they say that they want to find a nice guy). Nice = boring. And nothing is worse than a man who constantly dotes on a girl. At first she'll be flattered with all the attention, but before you know it, she'll take him for granted, start using him as a doormat, and be looking elsewhere (unless she, too, is boring). The secret is to balance between your desire/respect for her, and keeping her interest level high. And "insults" are one way (when done correctly - and I personally believe that Woodman is THE MAN in this respect) of establishing yourself as a confident and powerful man who's in control of the situation. No matter how independent or beautiful they are, all women NEED to be controlled to a certain degree. Have you seen chickens fuck? It's a pretty violent act. But if you don't get your hens a good, violent fuck now and then, they're not going to produce eggs how you'd like. Women are not much different, even if we're hundreds of millions of years detached. They're still looking for a powerful/able man who can control the situation - and THEM in the bedroom - while still feeling safe. And for me, that means cursing, spanking, hair pulling, and even spitting, light slapping and choking. And guys... they love it. You just need to balance it with the right level of respect and affection or they'll run screaming from your flat.
Hungarian rather than Russian.
Not that it makes any difference in either the discussion on Russian women or in Pierre Woodmans masterful handling of the same.
E.
There already was a talk about this.
The girl in green is hungarian, went by name Viktoria. Before going into porn she already had a career in prostitution so she's hardly a "first timer". Today she's married in England, living in Newcastle upon Tyne and he husband owns a butcher shop! Is he familiar with her previous career - don't know.
Woodman made most of his castings in Hungary and Czech Republic. Actually I remember one of his interview where he stated he never been to Russia but don't know if this is true. And how two hungarian girls sued him in France because he secretly filmed them during casting but as former police officer he was protected by his former work mates. He had to pay big money compensation and left France, today he lives in some tropical island I think. Also interesting to know is that his former wife is Tatiana Russof porn star. She's half russian on her father's side and half latvian on her mother's side. When she divorced Woodman she took lots of his money and opened a chain of hair saloons in Russia under name "IB" with woman Irina Baranova.
About russian girls in porn most of them are at their home country mostly in St. Petersburg which is porn capital of Russia. Russian has big porn production but strict laws about it which doesn't allow export of russian porn movies.
[QUOTE=Kurenda]There already was a talk about this.
The girl in green is hungarian, went by name Viktoria. Before going into porn she already had a career in prostitution so she's hardly a "first timer". Today she's married in England, living in Newcastle upon Tyne and he husband owns a butcher shop! Is he familiar with her previous career - don't know.
[/QUOTE]
Diverging from the Russian women thread but your story of Viktoria rings a bell. I knew a Hungarian SP working for an escort site in Budapest (well actually knew quite a few of them, and it is still operating :-). Spent a great overnight with her, and she was very partial to Doggie. She flew off the next week to marry an English guy in the UK who she had met as an Escort customer. A lot of the Hungarian SP girls flew over for the wedding, hopefully it worked out OK. Didnt attend myself but it must have been a great Wedding party for the new English relatives.
[QUOTE=Excess]Diverging from the Russian women thread but your story of Viktoria rings a bell. I knew a Hungarian SP working for an escort site in Budapest (well actually knew quite a few of them, and it is still operating :-). Spent a great overnight with her, and she was very partial to Doggie. She flew off the next week to marry an English guy in the UK who she had met as an Escort customer. A lot of the Hungarian SP girls flew over for the wedding, hopefully it worked out OK. Didnt attend myself but it must have been a great Wedding party for the new English relatives.[/QUOTE]
Great story, Excess...
[QUOTE=Pacific1]So, I realize this site is for P4P discussions, but I had a question for those more familiar with Russian culture. I'm headed out for a 2 week trip to Moscow and St. Petersburg and will have a Russian colleague accompanying me. Question is: has anyone tried using locals to do the picking up for them at local bars/clubs? Is is successful? I'm talking about the non-expat places where you may find a few students or regular women looking to make a few extra bucks. I'm definitely going to ask my colleague about such places but wanted to know if anyone has done this before.[/QUOTE]
It may be too late but I'll reply anyway...
Do you speak Russian? Away from Expat establishments and no Russian might make it harder for you, even if you have somebody that speaks Russian with you, having a "Wingman" can either work for you or against you.
You find "part-timers" in regular haunts, not just expat places.
[QUOTE=Buckinup]He is Pierre Woodman and there is a whole series of these called Private Castings.[/QUOTE]Woodman recently launched his own website woodmancastingx with all his old and NEW castings... +1000 and more.
I do not know in which thread to place this, but here it comes. Before you start reading I will give the following background:
Before summer and before going at that time to St Petersburg I communicated with several girls/women on Mamba. This one was 32 and I suspected that she was a pro, but I was quite uncertain. We exchanged some messages, but then she said I was too old for her, so I thought she was not a pro after all.
She then suddenly contacted me again on November 10 and wanted to communicate, which we did for a few days. I will emphasize that during our talk I NEVER indicated that I wanted a longterm serious relationship or marriage, she actually offered me that!
Maybe somebody wants a wife? She looks for husband!
I think the talk is selfexplanatory! I just call her "Her".
Her: 10 November 2009 at 14:03
"hello! How are you? Why you are again to come here? I glad to see you here! Let comunication"!
I asked why change when she did not want to communicate earlier?
Her: 10 November 2009 at 14:08
"I am so sorry, before I have many contact here and of cours I don't was ready to spoke with you long time. Sorry but now I have very interesting life and I ready to speak with you"!
Me: 10 November 2009 at 14:21
"in your profile you say that you look for sponsor"!
You also say that you look for men age 25-30, so maybe I am wrong for you"?
Her: 10 November 2009 at 14:24
"before I was can to say this but now I chanch my look on life".
I asked her what she was looking for: fun, money, etc.
Her: 10 November 2009 at 14:33
"I look for husbend! I consider that from me the good wife because I was the prostitute will turn out, and I know that is necessary for the man. Certainly I am not able to cook food, but it can be corrected, for you this problem"?
We continue to talk and I ask her about her work.
Her: 10 November at 15:17
"Now I leave prostitution because feel full up from this life"
Her: 10 November 2009 at 15:23: "I studied as the designer, now I am pregnant from the client which ugly creature! When we will meet you can accept my child? I was engaged in prostitution long time".
I asked why she did not take abortion?
Her: 10 November 2009 at 15:27
"You consider what correctly to make abortion"?
Me: Yes!
Her: 10 November 2009 at 15:29
"! You have sharply fallen in my opinion".
I asked how this happened, did she not use condom?
Her: 10 November 2009 at 15:34
"At me now 3 months. Well as you could suggest to make to me abortion, I thought that you the especial man. But you as all men and I am shoked! You are! How did you can to think about this"?
I again asked how this happened
Her: 10 November 2009 at 15:43
"It has happened as usually, I have arrived on a call to a sauna, I often there go, I should serve 5 men for 2 hours, and so, I was fucked by 3 men simultaneously, and one of them has terminated in me inside"
I asked how she looked upon men?
Her: 10 November 2009 at 16:00
"every woman to dream about High growth and I am too. I consider men of all identical, they often lie. Also it is the truth, they often have several women, and speak: "at me only you one" are possible somewhere subconsciously I do not trust also to you. Concerning girls. I am assured that you communicate and with other girls and give them promises. I look at this life really, without pink glasses. Certainly my relation now to men rigid because I know their essence. As had sex probably approximately in my life of 2000 persons and communicated with them. Certainly at each man the truth, but they as a matter of fact all dogs. The woman for them only means to satisfy their lust no more".
I asked her if she had pleasure from sex sometimes?
Her: 10 November 2009 at 16:18
"Pleasure from sex? No. It is excluded, I do not look at the man already as on the man. I any more do not see its high qualities. I see simply a body. And all. I did not test for a long time already orgasm".
Her: 10 November 2009 at 16:22
"boyfriend I had few day ago. But I don't love his. And orgasm I don't felt may be 1 year".
Her: 10 November 2009 at 16:31
"he love me but I tired from his love. Of cours it gave me expensive gifts, and beautifully looked after me, but I do not love it, I simply tired to give the body to men without feelings".
I asked her if she worked as a prostitute when she had a boyfriend who supported her?
Her: 10 November 2009 at 16:38
"support in how sense material or moral? Yes I did. I worked. Becous it is my habits"
Her: 10 November 2009 at 16:58
"I suspect that I am interesting to you only as as a novelty in yours in a daily life, is simple as a modern history for you. It is pleasant to you unusual. I have understood it. And I for you only a riddle which you wish to solve. No more. Therefore I will better stop with you dialogue in general. I do not wish to spend time is useless. You do not take offence at me. But I search for the man serious which can understand me with all my lacks. Any more do not write to me please. Otherwise I will ignore. With the best regards".
However, she came back and started to chat again 2 days later. We talked about different things, she told me she still worked a sprostitute, she asked me when I had sex last, I told her it was yesterday.
Her: 12 November 2009 at 10:06
"Interestingly as! And how many years to the girl? Yes I have now sex, pregnancy to me does not stir. There is no I not for money fucked. Simply so".
The funny thing is that she don't only had sex for money, more out of habit?
Her: 12 November 2009 at 10: 15
"Yes I had sex not for money. I liked which guy I did not meet before earlier. We with it had sex. Certainly I have not terminated, but to me it was pleasant".
We talked more about sex and what we like in sex
Her 12 November 2009 at 10: 25
"And what you love in sex most of all? Probably to lick? I very much like to fuck in an ass".
I asked if she loved anal sex?
Answer: "When I worked as prostitute, two men fucked me simultaneously in my pussy"
I asked if it was not painful to have 2 dicks in her pussy?
Answer: "No, this not painful, I like feel dick in my pussy. Tell to me at what you size of dick? I like very much to suck very deep in throat and lick balls! Such we can to trey when you arrive in St peter".
I told her my dick was "normal" sized, but did she want it big?
Her 12 November 2009 at 10: 40
"no I don't like bigger dick I like normal size about 17 smtr"
We discussed more what she likes in sex!
Her 12 November 2009 at 11:12
"More I love anal sex and also I like a shower of gold you sometime tried it? And also I like to fuck a cancer".
I never got explanation what it is to fuck a cancer?
Her: 12 November 2009 at 11:14
"It is pleasant to me when the man to me licks a lips pussy, it is pleasant to me when it uses the vibrator.
We discussed use of vibrators.
Her: 12 November 2009 at 11:25
"I like to use both and my pussy and in my ass".
Her: 12 November 2009 at 11:33
"yes I use 2 vibrators at the same time"!
She then told me she had sex first time in her life at the age of 11 with her father!
Her: 12 November 2009 at 11:52
"no I had my first time with my dad, I like it"
She then told that the first time she had sex with somebody else was at 15, and she has been working as a prostitute since she was 16, now she is 32!
Her: 12 November 2009 at 12:05
"yes I workied 16 years this my real age. But now I stoped this work and sometimes I come back on it becous it already habits and this easy money".
Her: 12 November 2009 at 12:14
"that very easy way for money for girls, yes may be 2000 men may be more I don't remember".
She asked me how many girls I had fucked?
Her: 12 November 2009 at 12:22
I think only for sex I can will bee good wife not more, you did had about 500-1000? Do you like so much I see to fuck? You are really man. And all girls young"?
Our discussion continued.
Her 12 November 2009 at 12:38
"I do not like condoms, therefore I had such infections as a gonorrhea earlier, the syphilis is a lot of infections, but now I am engaged exclusively in a condom. But I do oral sex without".
Her: 12 November 2009 at 12:46
"no I don't like to get sperm in my mouth becous at me an emetic reflex and I do not love taste of sperm"
I told her that I may be interested in meeting her, but only for a short meeting!
Her: 12 November 2009 at 13:37
"I do not wish to be disposable at you"
Her: 12 November 2009 at 13:40
"may be you want only short the meet but I am not"
Her: 12 November 2009 at 13:44
"Why you as all men? All want only short appointment and all? You have disappointed me. I wish to be the wife, instead of the mistress for some days, understand that I want"?
Her: 12 November 2009 at 14:16
"Well I have understood all, thanks for dialogue, I have made the choice, I any more do not wish to be your wife. And the mistress. Because you I type of the man, I always know at once that I want, and you fly in clouds, I am not assured that after our first meeting you will visit again me, you simply wish to pass away the free time in Peter, no more. And I will be at you the next trophy in yours to a trip, I do not want. Better we now will stop our dialogue not to hurt each other, I wish your of good luck".
Then she sent me the following message 2 days later
Her: 14 November 2009 at 09:15
"You as all men,, A fool, Everyone want your money, instead of you. At us in Peter everyone look at men as on a purse no more. Don't belive anybody".
THE END OF CONTACT!
[quote=explorer69]"well i have understood all, thanks for dialogue, i have made the choice, i any more do not wish to be your wife. [/quote]well... i for one am very disappointed! i thought you two would get married and live happily ever after. :(
quite a story: raped by her father at 15 and spent the rest of her life working as a prostitute. thanks for sharing.
cancer is the sign of the crab. the crab moves sideways. the guys on sextalk refer to fucking sideways, like a crab. i don't know for sure, but i think this refers to a position where the woman lays on her side, lifts her leg in the air and the man approaches her straight on, with her raised leg over his shoulder. just my guess.
Or if no, anyone else can answer?
I do a fair amount of copy (Russian) and paste (into google translate).
And it comes out so bad.
OH, I see why. 'the text! It does not have spaces. They just keep typing right along. Why do they (Russian speakers) do this? I see it all the time!
Do you understand my question? It is some kind of 'logic' reason?
Expolorer69, pretty funny story.
What a princess that one... :)
And to believe there are still some guys out there who fall in love with prostitutes... should be required reading for them!
[quote=stravinsky]well... i for one am very disappointed! i thought you two would get married and live happily ever after. :(
quite a story: raped by her father at 15 and spent the rest of her life working as a prostitute. thanks for sharing.
cancer is the sign of the crab. the crab moves sideways. the guys on sextalk refer to fucking sideways, like a crab. i don't know for sure, but i think this refers to a position where the woman lays on her side, lifts her leg in the air and the man approaches her straight on, with her raised leg over his shoulder. just my guess.[/quote]she was actually raped by father at 11, had first sex in addition to father at 15, started as prostitute at 16!
[QUOTE=Freebie Sevman]They just keep typing right along. Why do they (Russian speakers) do this? I see it all the time![/QUOTE]It seems to me this is just SOP for texting, everywhere. If you think Russians are bad, you should see how American teenageers are re-creating the English language with their cell phones!
If you speak Russian, then it's no problem to parse out the words. If you don't, then it will just look like gobbledegook. Moral of the story? Learn how to speak Russian.
BTW - I am not a native Russian speaker, just an avid dilettante. After 10 years of study, I am at the beginning-intermediate level. I figure I should be able to master the language by the time I die. :)
As they say in Russia, "All your life you live, all your life you learn, and you die a fool."
TY
GB
A maitresse of mine since 2 years, who is a "dancer" in Bordo, asked me to marry her.
She was pretty serious, during 2 hours she told me all the good things she will do for me. Now she has stopped working in Bordo because she wants to be married and need to be "like a virgin".
amazing story :-)
I have to admit that I was thinking of it a whole night as she is young and amazingly pretty (like all girls in Bordo) :-)
[QUOTE=Passepartout]A maitresse of mine since 2 years, who is a "dancer" in Bordo, asked me to marry her.
She was pretty serious, during 2 hours she told me all the good things she will do for me. Now she has stopped working in Bordo because she wants to be married and need to be "like a virgin".
amazing story :-)
I have to admit that I was thinking of it a whole night as she is young and amazingly pretty (like all girls in Bordo) :-)[/QUOTE]I heard a rumour that Bordo was closing at the end of the year. Anyone know if it is true?
I dated a Russian chick in US a few years ago. She was out of a visa and soon to be illegal and taught she could try to get a Greencard out of me but I told her right away that I was not the man to do that. She cried and accepted her fate.
I helped her find a job and a place to live as her current situation wasn't good. She treated me like her everything and took care of me well. She'd cook for me, clean for me and even let me stay at her place as long as I wanted, without charging me rent. I took care of her aswell by taking her with me to college and having her sit through classes, showing her around life in US, having her try experiences,etc. those were probably one of the best times of my life.
she told me she'd fuck me if i ever visited her back in russia. problem is, she's never been back to russia. haha. anyways, she's one of the sweetest gals ever. i havent had similar experiences with rest of the russians but depending on if you'r efrom ukrain, or belaruise, or whever, u'd find different personalities. Chicks from belaruse are like jews. they're only looking out for them selves. russian chicks on the other hand, will take care of you. they may leave you, but while they're with you, they'll take care of you.
Here's a challenge:
Super hot, extremely popular chick you've already fucked.
Had a great vibe going.
She goes silent.
Doesn't answer 90% of your messages and cancelled a date (although excused), i.e. doesn't show you respect.
Lives in a city where you can only meet her once every 6 weeks or so.
At this point there are several acceptable options to end it, BUT... you still want to fuck her again, so you can't cut off all ties.
Options?
Chasing her likely only makes you weaker in her eyes.
Calling her out on it/chastising her probably ends things forever.
Going silent has the same effect.
Maybe the only option is a write off?
I think the only real option is to somehow make her come back to you... therein lies the challenge.
Ideas? Thoughts?
Well, one thing is clear... it's either about something you did, or something you didn't do.
Life in a small out-of-the-way city in Russia can be tough and women can get into a lot of strange situations just trying to survive. The advantages of living in modern Russia, post Soviet Union, decrease exponentially with your distance from Red Square. Once you get beyond the MKAD, modern Russia is still pretty much indistinguishable from it's Soviet predecessor.
Men tend to think that it's all about me (myself in particular :) ), but the fact that she doesn't answer your messages and cancels dates is not necessarily lack of respect. When a woman disappears like that, most likely something significant has happened in her life, and it may not have anything to do with you.
You're right, berating her will not help, nor will the silent treatment. Probably the best thing to do is to write her off.
However... if you are still lusting after the thrill of sliding off her troosiki, then you have to take your relationship to the next step and become her friend. Stay in touch, let her know that you are still around and that you are not going anywhere. The next time you are in her city, find her and confront her about what happened. She may not be proud of what happened to her and she may not want to talk about it, but the more determined you are, the more she will believe in your sincerity. There's no predicting what will happen, but I think that's your only way to bring her back. Patience will help you more than anything else.
Unless, of course, this really [b] is [/b] about something [b] you [/b] did, in which case you need to 'fess up and give us all the juicy details! ;)
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Chasing her likely only makes you weaker in her eyes.
Calling her out on it/chastising her probably ends things forever.
Going silent has the same effect.
Maybe the only option is a write off?
I think the only real option is to somehow make her come back to you... therein lies the challenge.
Ideas? Thoughts?[/QUOTE]
Need more details, but here goes...
Definitely do not chase her. Same goes for whining to her about her bad behaviour. Both will make you look weak. I know, because I've made the same mistake myself, and more than once.
Best is to make her jealous, but not in an obvious way. Russian girls are ridiculously competitive - so much so that they'll even compete for guys whom they don't really want. If you have any common acquaintances, you could tell them that your girl in question isn't that interesting to you anymore - not smart enough, not classy enough, etc - and you're looking to upgrade.
Going silent may not be such a bad ploy either. I'd suggest calling her to chat a bit, let her know that you'll be in town the following week, and that you're interested in meeting up. You'll be busy with business dinners (which many girls here interpret as being dates with other girls), and will need to call her back once your schedule solidifies to settle on an exact date. Then, don't call. She'll either have written you off, or (hopefully) you might have regained some of her interest. Either way, doesn't sound like you have much to lose.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Definitely do not chase her. Same goes for whining to her about her bad behaviour. Both will make you look weak. I know, because I've made the same mistake myself, and more than once.
Best is to make her jealous, but not in an obvious way. Russian girls are ridiculously competitive - so much so that they'll even compete for guys whom they don't really want.
Going silent may not be such a bad ploy either.
Either way, doesn't sound like you have much to lose.[/QUOTE]Well she's been getting the silent treatment, I've been able to restrain myself from calling her out on lack of culture etc., which of course she would neither understand nor respect.
Funny thing is, originally she picked ME up. Introduced herself to me at a party, suggested we go get a bite to eat.. at midnight.
We fucked a couple of times in November and December last year, but she kind of blew me off... although politely... in January, and has more or less gone silent since then.
Anyway, maybe something did happen to her:
* got bored with long-distance once-a-month meeting
* found somebody else
* just wasn't that much into me
But I'll follow your advice... contact her when I have a chance to meet her personally and see how things go. Until then, silent but try to pop up in her reality every once and awhile and hopefully get noticed in a positive way. ))[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Men tend to think that it's all about me (myself in particular :) ), but the fact that she doesn't answer your messages and cancels dates is not necessarily lack of respect. When a woman disappears like that, most likely something significant has happened in her life, and it may not have anything to do with you.
You're right, berating her will not help, nor will the silent treatment. Probably the best thing to do is to write her off.
...then you have to take your relationship to the next step and become her friend. Stay in touch, let her know that you are still around and that you are not going anywhere. The next time you are in her city, find her and confront her about what happened. She may not be proud of what happened to her and she may not want to talk about it, but the more determined you are, the more she will believe in your sincerity. There's no predicting what will happen, but I think that's your only way to bring her back. Patience will help you more than anything else.[/QUOTE]I agree with the premise that the whole thing may have been beyond my control anyway, but I disagree with the friendship ploy. It has never worked for me.
I don't think it was specifically something I did or didn't do, but that is still a possibility... although she was cordial and flirty at times in her messages since we last met before going silent, so I doubt it was something directly related to my behavior.
I'd prefer giving her the silent treatment until I have a chance to put my hand on her ass. )
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Here's a challenge:
Super hot, extremely popular chick you've already fucked.
Had a great vibe going.
She goes silent.
Doesn't answer 90% of your messages and cancelled a date (although excused), i.e. doesn't show you respect....etc[/QUOTE]
Hi, Doc. Hope you don't mind me butting in.
And sorry if this sounds a bit brutal: I suggest you re-read your original post as if it were a female friend talking to you about a guy she likes. She's been sleeping with him for a while, thinks it's all going great and then suddenly he just drops out of her life. She really wants to get him back, but he won't even answer her calls. What advice would you give her? How would you explain her man's behaviour? More importantly...what would you recommend she do about it?
[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Hi, Doc. Hope you don't mind me butting in.
And sorry if this sounds a bit brutal: I suggest you re-read your original post as if it were a female friend talking to you about a guy she likes. She's been sleeping with him for a while, thinks it's all going great and then suddenly he just drops out of her life. She really wants to get him back, but he won't even answer her calls. What advice would you give her? How would you explain her man's behaviour? More importantly...what would you recommend she do about it?[/QUOTE]I'd advise her to write it off and tell her he's got another girl or simply isn't interested anymore and that at this point, there is nothing she can do but wait it out and see if he comes back and when he does, decide if he is worth taking back. In any case, whatever "magic" was originally there is gone forever.
I've understood this already in my case as well, essentially it is a write off under any normal circumstances, however I still want to preserve any chances I have and still get in her pants down the road. I don't expect things to be wonderfully romantic again, which my relationship with her was for only a short while. For a few weeks I was genuinely smitten.
Although similar (boy-girl vs. girl-boy) I do think there are differences however.
For example I am actually a little happy things went as they did, as now I don't have to worry about how to initiate the inevitable end. It's already been done.
Could also very well be that she simply recognizes the situation for what it actually is... me just using her for entertainment and sex... and decided she doesn't need me for that.
Nonetheless I'd be perfectly happy if we were fuck buddies, trading some entertainment and chit-chat for sex and passion. I have several of these arrangements already and for the most part, they function just fine, in some cases for years.
On a side night, I have this Russian prostitute friend with whom I chat about all subjects. She is one of the extremely rare cases where I meet a pro more than once... we meet every couple of months. Great sex and interesting company, even if we argue a bit sometimes. In any case, we didn't specifically talk about this case, but she claimed I was a user (she used the drug addict term)... a user of women, it was "written all over me". She had no problem with that per se, but said (and this makes sense in the Russian context) that I was far too mild to do this effectively. In her opinion, life in Russia was brutal in every way, even if on the surface things have gotten milder, and that Russians are culturally taught that brutality is life, mastering it is strength.
This isn't the first time that a Russian girl has told me to be more firm in my relations with other girls.
Of course I already know this, and I am by no means overly mild or emotional, nonetheless it is interesting to hear from girls themselves on how I come across. Sometimes it is absolutely flattering, sometimes it is brutally candid.
And you are always welcome to butt in RN... even with brutal candor.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]Although similar (boy-girl vs. girl-boy) I do think there are differences however.[/QUOTE]
There are subtle difference between genders and in this case, between cultures, but I think some things are universal - like fear of rejection, fear of humiliation, and the inability to deal with breakups like responsible adults. :)
Just like men, some women choose to run away when faced with the idea of confrontation. I've been guilty of taking the "Just ignore him and he'll eventually go away" approach myself and I've also had it done to me countless times by men. It's a cruel, immature, crap way of dealing with a breakup, but it's unfortunately pretty common.
There's also another angle to that, especially in your particular case, which isn't intentionally callous or disrespectful. She may have underestimated your emotional investment and figured you wouldn't expect (or want?) an explanation on why she's ending it. That is, she may have wanted to call you up and talk things through with you, but was afraid to look 'weak' or clingy for viewing the relationship as something more than you did. I remember, many years ago, gathering all my strength to tell a longish-term sexual parter that I wanted to end it, only to have him shrug and sneer and tell me we didn't "have something" to end... and basically that I was a silly little girl for thinking it was anything more than just sex. He later apologised and admitted it was just a self-defence mechanism, but it really hurt at the time and it influenced the way I dealt with breakups for a long time after.
Anyway, what's done is done and for whatever reason, she's chosen to walk away. What can you do to stay in her good books for potential future fun times? My 'female perspective' advice would be to send her a text message saying you're really sorry to see her disappear from your life, but that you get the picture and respect her wishes and won't hassle her any more. Tell her to give you a shout if she ever wants to catch up in the future ("in the future" is important) and thank her for the time you had together ("thank you" is also important). Then DON'T MESSAGE HER AGAIN. Leave the ball in her court. If she never calls back, there's not much you can do about it. Move on. But she may just change her mind if you make it feel like it's HER decision. Also, if you keep chasing her she might think you're too in love, in lust, desperate, etc and start thinking it's too risky to call on you for no-strings fun.
Mind you, that advice comes with a warning. Two warnings actually, but both are related. One is that if you come crawling back into her bed in the future, even after she treated you so badly, she's likely to see you as weak and easily manipulated. The other is that if she later decides to 'grant you access' to her body, it will be solely on HER terms and the power dynamic of your relationship will shift significantly. Only you can decide if that's a price worth paying.
Sorry to ramble, but your problem happens to mirror a situation that's been happening in my own life for the past few years (that's why I couldn't resist sticking my nose in when I saw your post). I certainly hope your situation doesn't drag on and drive you crazy for as long as mine has! Best of luck. x
[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]I remember, many years ago, gathering all my strength to tell a longish-term sexual parter that I wanted to end it, only to have him shrug and sneer and tell me we didn't "have something" to end... and basically that I was a silly little girl for thinking it was anything more than just sex. He later apologised and admitted it was just a self-defence mechanism, but it really hurt at the time and it influenced the way I dealt with breakups for a long time after.
[/QUOTE]
Funny enough, I had a girlfriend here in Moscow do the exact same thing to me just a few months ago. Big difference is that I got no apology, just insistence (with a lot of resistance from me) that we stay friends. As it's turned out, she's tried to milk whatever she can from me - dinners, drinks, male attention, emotional support, status - without offering anything but her "friendship" in return. I'm beginning to think like Skank on this one... it's difficult if not impossible to stay friends with a former lover. Best to part ways and never look back.
BTW, really nice to see a female perspective in this forum! :)
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]Big difference is that I got no apology...[/QUOTE]
I should probably have added that the apology came LOOOOONG after the breakup. YEARS later, when we ran into each other by accident via a mutual friend.
Your situation is exactly what I was warning the Doc about: when the balance of power shifts, one party (the one in love/lust, who didn't want the relationship to end in the first place) is often taken advantage of. They only have two choices...hang around on the sidelines and put up with whatever is thrown at them, or get dumped completely. Either way, they lose. And yeah, this shitty tactic is routinely employed by BOTH genders.
Good luck with your situation, as well! And thanks for the compliment. :) x
RN, Pizdyets and Strav,
Thanks for your advice!
I'm writing her off. If our paths cross again someday which they probably will since we do circulate in the same professional circles, I'll deal with it then.
She gets no "let's be friends" or whatever message, nothing. She can contact me if she wants, but I suspect she won't. In any case, as mentioned before the dynamic is out of the mix and I really believe that if there was a good vibe and it ended for whatever reason, it is virtually impossible to go back.
Really a shame, as not only was she smoking hot, she did make a very good impression on me as a person as well. No hard feelings (beyond the hurt that always comes with being ignored or brushed aside) as I don't know what her reason was.
Moving on to new things... )
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
I'm writing her off. If our paths cross again someday which they probably will since we do circulate in the same professional circles, I'll deal with it then.[/QUOTE]
Skank,
Sorry to be late to the party, but I certainly agree with your choice of action plan. Sometimes silence is the best way to deal with an awkward situation. With the attempts you have made there cannot be any confusion about your desire to re-connect. If she has continued to rebuff this far, there is probably a reason. Since (as you state) you still move in the same professional circles, you are both in a way friends if not colleagues so there is always a possibility of reconnecting in the future. Pursuing a friendship at this point will just confuse the issue leading to more awkwardness and amount to a big waste of your time.
Don't discount the possibility (as RN suggests) of a reconciliation down the road. I too have had that happen after the passage of years. We had an awkward situation that we reflected upon years later, had a good laugh, and ended up in the sack. But it was only after we were both able to put some distance between ourselves and (more importantly) the situation in general that was going on in both our lives at that time. It's quite possible that it's not "you" and it's not "her" but the situation that happens to exist at the moment. If the chemistry that you once had is not enough to overcome that set of current circumstances then......... well, it's just not enough is it?
To badly paraphrase Sun Tzu, "retreat and live to fuck another day".
:)
I'm not exactly on a roll with chicks lately.
Here is another case. Curious about your opinions.
Do you think it makes any sense to "try and make up" with a girl that told you she never wants to see or hear from you again?
I'll keep the story short.
I remet a girl I've already slept with, called girl A. We have something really special going spiritually, sexually, intellectually. One of those rare creatures that pushes every button you have on your body. She did it for me in every way and apparently, she was genuinely interested in me.
Being an ass however, I wasn't satisified with just her.... at least not when I had invited another very cute girl to stay with me.
So the night after sleeping with girl A, girl B arrives into town and I lie to girl A about going out with business partners on Friday night and instead girl B and I are going clubbing and she is staying over.
Of course, girl A sees me with girl B who is dolled up to the max. I get an SMS "so what kind of business do you have with a girl at 11:41 pm?". I answer about being out in a group going to a club and she doesn't reply.
The next day, I send girl B away. She's very cute and looks super sexy, but doesn't do it for me intellectually at all and despite passionate bed manners, doesn't have the kind of voracious sexual appetite I have, which girl A has and demands, who is a volcano.
Girl A is still pissed, but somehow after a couple hours of effort, I convince her to meet Saturday night. She agrees and after talking on the phone and exchanging SMSs over the course of the evening, we finally meet at 3am or so. Unfortunately I am a bottle and a half of vodka roaring drunk and she's stone cold sober.
We fight, yell. She probably slapped me. Security told me to leave the place, I told them to give me time with my girl. They leave us alone when she tells them it is ok. Her friends leave.
We argue near the WCs, on the stairs, at the bar.
She leaves the club. I chase her onto the street, we yell and fight. Finally, she runs off into the night and I stumble back into the club and back to the bar.
5 minutes later she comes back for me and literally grabbing me, drags me out, worried that I am going to get myself killed being drunk in a bar full of strangers.
We go home in a taxi, after getting back to my apartment we argue but in softer tones. Kind truthful words are spoken from me. Mean yet appropriate words are spoken from her. Hurt hangs in the air. I've wronged her and I know it, and it wasn't just about the other girl. She felt that I had betrayed what we had begun and after hanging on my words, now feared they were meaningless. (I didn't use the L word or say any future plans, just made some compliments that touched her. She also claimed to be happy being a lover, but a special one)
At some point there is nothing left to say and I pass out.
Finally waking in the morning, she asks " are you ok?".
"Yeah" I say.
"Do you remember what you said last night?" she says with sad puppy dog eyes, refering to the kind words I spoke to her.
"Yeah, I remember" I say.
"Well never forget them and never contact me again". She says and storms out.
We haven't spoken since. Is there any point?
I want her to know what I said was true, but somehow think that won't make things better at all.
I know sometimes girls like to be chased or enjoy the drama, but she seemed genuinely fed up and hurt.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]
Do you think it makes any sense to "try and make up" with a girl that told you she never wants to see or hear from you again?[/QUOTE]
Skank,
First let me say that it does my heart good to know that EVEN YOU can have an off streak. Thanks for "keep'in it real".
To answer your question - there is little good that can come from you appearing to chase her. You are a dog. You know it. I know it. And she knows it. Just let it be for a while. A period of remorse will set in and you can re-engage once she gets perspective on the matter. Good guys are hard to find. Despite your tendency to wh*re around [a trait I recognize and admire, I might add ;)] you are basically a decent guy who treats girls well (ie. no beating, practices good hygiene and actually has a job which pays money) so once she meets a few guys who exhibit none of these traits, I suspect her receptivity towards you will return. But during this period, you need to let her bask in the glory of her own indignity. Let feel she has won. Let her enjoy having "cast you out" for a while and reinforce her sense of dignity. She will tell her girl friends all about how you cheated on her and they in turn will probably tell her she was crazy to have treated you that way and that she should try to get you back. Of course that would NEVER happen with American girls, but with Russian girls...... well, you know.
Deep down, you know what I am saying is true. Give her some time and then circle back with a gesture of contrition. Maybe a green beer on Saint Paddy's day. Who knows? Before you know it, you will be sweet talking her back into your bed.
Doc, no suggest from me, but thanks for sharing your truly pieces of real life....
I would pay to live such situations with girls in my home town.....
I have to comeback to Russia ASAP !
Oh yeah ! :D
Doc,
First, thanks for letting us kibitz on your love life. I'm sure we would all like to have your problems. Some of us would probably be willing to pay to have your problems.
But, as we all know, you don't have any problem. This girl obviously has some genuine affection for you, otherwise she would not have rescued you from the bar and then waited patiently to make sure that you were safe and sober, before dumping you.
However, after your excellent imitation of a horse's ass, you must do penance. I should think 50 "Hail Mary"s and 60 "Our Father"s would be sufficient. :) After she's had a chance to cool off, I'm sure she will start missing you again and you can reconnect. You would know best how to do that.
The only advice I can give you is lay off the booze for a while, at least until you can get back into her good graces. Nothing is more flattering to a woman than to believe that a man is willing to change. Just for her. The fact that you are actually willing to stay sober long enough to make up with her could be just what she needs to believe in your sincerity.
doctoring ain't no science, its an art, that is practiced.
but don't forget the studying of all the science we did to get there.
your problem is the same as the rest of us, you are over-thinking it with the big head. we are by nature, dogs that fuck any hole, even a knot in a tree. its in our dna, we are all rotten to the core, un-faithful, wanna-be alpha bulls and bears protecting our own dominance over our pack of breeding females. a few thousand years of society's behavior modification can't undo millions of years of evolution. don't listen to me, listen to your primal instincts, you big fucking ape! (that's a compliment, by the way.) release the wild side!!
would a kingly lion or a proud stallion worry about which of his females he can connect with on an intellectual level?? please! grow down! get back to your animal genes, mark the corner of your apartment building with your scent, scratch your hide against a tree. stick your head out the window tonight and bay at the moon. grunt for a day without speaking. that will clear your head, and show you the way.
you just let your guard down, a slav's truest weakness, inside a bottle of fermented potato juice.
next time, if there is one, you need to pour a bottle, or two, into her, drag her up the stairs by the hair, and fuck her into unconsciousness, then ask her after she passes out and wakes up, if she can walk without walking funny.
when i'm right, i'm right. all you pussies that disagree can go wank it.
well, don't be offended by my over-macho-isms. there are lessons to be learned here. don't fuck with science, or evolution. that's when things go bad. we all need to be reminded once in a while, how we got here. its always best to honor our ancestors, even if they were really bad [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord130][CodeWord130][/url] motherfuckers, mother-in-lawfuckers, sisterfuckers, daughterfuckers, or whatever horrible knuckle-scraping shit they did. we owe our fucking existence to them, so don't them let down. now shut up and go fuck your sister! all right, all right, fuck your sister's best friend, does that make you feel better?
this ain't the international feelings guide!
its time to put your donzhuansky spisok in order, doctor, or take down your shingle.
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra]Doctoring ain't no science, its an art, that is practiced.
But don't forget the studying of all the science we did to get there.
Your problem is the same as the rest of us, you are over-thinking it with the big head. We are by nature, dogs that fuck any hole, even a knot in a tree. [/QUOTE]Mongga pleez!
My experiments in being Mr.Sensibility always fail, so I guess I am just better at being that ape you mentioned.
A third love triangle seems to have imploded on me last weekend, but I did get some great fucking in before it collapsed.
Fuckville, here I cum!
I have realized that its not in two days that the girl will want you in bed.
Especially because those students girls are scared of men playing with them.
And you the foreign with big money in the pocket, make it obvious that you only want her pussy.
It is difficult for me, because I don't have patience, and it makes me stressed a lot talking with those freebies, I feel like a waste of time, because at the end, all I want is sex, not all the blah blah.
And I am scared in getting on something serious, because a romantic girl want you 10x times more, everything from you, your time your money everything.
And when you play with a lot of girls in the same time, it is obvious that you have to keep a certain distance from every of these girls, but how?
But how long should I communicate with a girl, before I can start talking about sex?
Regards
Following my 2 years experience of Moscow, i can say that you got basically 2 kind of girls:
- the one who wants love, children and a datcha: it will be difficult, if not impossible, to keep distance with her and have free time for other girls
- the one who already had a children, knows what is a man, and have very few spare time to share: these girls are for me the real gem of moscow.
I am now concentrating on these divorced girls, 25-35 y.o. who will not try to call you every night, because they already have their own life and children to take care.
I am managing to be with 4 girls in the same time, while keeping free nights to go out with my friends, try to get new diev, or even to monger. Believe it or not; this is not because i got many girlfriends that i stop paying for sex. I must be sick or something is wrong in me, but in fact i like it...! :-)
[QUOTE=Passepartout]i can say I must be sick or something is wrong in me, but in fact i like it...! :-)[/QUOTE]Ppt,
молодец! Nothing wrong with you. Single moms between 25 & 35 are the undiscovered Mother Lode of Russia. The sadder but wiser girl for me, I always say.
You are very fortunate that you have the time to cultivate these kinds of relationships. Take full advantage of it while you can.
[QUOTE=Passepartout]I must be sick or something is wrong in me, but in fact i like it...! :-)[/QUOTE]
My oh my... I do say that our little Passepartout has become a man! ;)
Now to free up some time on [b]my[/b] calendar to hit Up and Down with you. See... unlike you, most of my girls are in Category I, so it poses a lot more problems! :)
[QUOTE=Passepartout]Following my 2 years experience of Moscow, i can say that you got basically 2 kind of girls:
- the one who wants love, children and a datcha: it will be difficult, if not impossible, to keep distance with her and have free time for other girls
- the one who already had a children, knows what is a man, and have very few spare time to share: these girls are for me the real gem of moscow. [/QUOTE]You are absolutely forgetting the 2 kinds I always end up with:
- the 18-22 year old experimental student assembling her first sexual experiences and looking for intellectual, sexual and life-enhancing adventures of any kind. She knows these are her best years, so she had damn well use them.
- the 24-28 year old office employee with at least one bad relationship behind her just looking for occasional fun, some sex and a nice meal now and then.
Both of these kinds know that I am not the guy for the long haul. Thus, they are perfect and don't mind being one of the "stock", just as long as they aren't confronted by evidence of the other girls directly. Some even ask about the other girls though and openly don't care.
These are even easier to get then the moms sometimes, who can have totally unrealistic expectations... and really terrible schedules. At least that has been my experience.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]You are absolutely forgetting the 2 kinds I always end up with:
- the 18-22 year old experimental student assembling her first sexual experiences and looking for intellectual, sexual and life-enhancing adventures of any kind. She knows these are her best years, so she had damn well use them.
- the 24-28 year old office employee with at least one bad relationship behind her just looking for occasional fun, some sex and a nice meal now and then.
[/QUOTE]
For the 18-22, i am 36 and starts to feel the difference. I would even say that I am not that interesting by them.
For the 24-28 office employee with recent bad experience, you are right there are plenty of them, looking for the kind guy we all are. Because we are very kind with them, we know that... :-)
Hey Pizdyets, we need to go to u&d, you are right... i'll be there probably on Friday with friends. If you are free, send an sms...
[QUOTE=Passepartout]For the 18-22, i am 36 and starts to feel the difference. I would even say that I am not that interesting by them. [/QUOTE]I hear you there.[QUOTE=Passepartout]For the 24-28 office employee with recent bad experience, you are right there are plenty of them, looking for the kind guy we all are. Because we are very kind with them, we know that... :-)
[/QUOTE]Quite frankly, we are!
Usually...
Bitchology : Russian women taught how to get their man.
"[I]With the number of eligible bachelors dwindling in Russia, women are now taking lessons in how to snare the man of their dreams .....
.... It seem increasing number of Russian women are flocking to "bittch schools" that claim that they can arm the ladies with the competitive edge needed to snare a man, or even bring their own partners to heel[/I]...."
[url]http://dimapics.com/gallery.php?photo_id=1726&screen=0&cat_id=138&action=view&lng=[/url]
[url]http://rakovsky.ru//?s=5&d_id=186[/url]
[url]http://rakovsky.ru//?s=5&d_id=188[/url]
[QUOTE=Prosal]Bitchology : Russian women taught how to get their man.
"[I]With the number of eligible bachelors dwindling in Russia, women are now taking lessons in how to snare the man of their dreams .....
.... It seem increasing number of Russian women are flocking to "bittch schools" that claim that they can arm the ladies with the competitive edge needed to snare a man, or even bring their own partners to heel[/I]...."
[url]http://dimapics.com/gallery.php?photo_id=1726&screen=0&cat_id=138&action=view&lng=[/url]
[url]http://rakovsky.ru//?s=5&d_id=186[/url]
[url]http://rakovsky.ru//?s=5&d_id=188[/url][/QUOTE]Haha... :) I read aboout these classes a while ago and they even had something on TV about it.
I bet the classes actually work.. seriously. We men are simple creatures. :)
[QUOTE=Prosal]Bitchology : Russian women taught how to get their man.
"[I]It seem increasing number of Russian women are flocking to "bittch schools" that claim that they can arm the ladies with the competitive edge needed to snare a man, or even bring their own partners to heel[/I]...."[/QUOTE]очень интересно...
Not sure how a woman will catch or keep a man by becoming a "sterva". American women have long since perfected the art, and it hasn't helped them at all.
Why else would American men be looking for women in Russia? And the Ukraine, and Thailand, and Brazil, and Argentina, and everywhere else in the world.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]очень интересно...
Not sure how a woman will catch or keep a man by becoming a "sterva". American women have long since perfected the art, and it hasn't helped them at all.
Why else would American men be looking for women in Russia? And the Ukraine, and Thailand, and Brazil, and Argentina, and everywhere else in the world.[/QUOTE]I think it works just fine for American girls, it is only the enlightened few that are smart enough to venture beyond the borders...
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I bet the classes actually work.. seriously. We men are simple creatures. :)[/QUOTE]
[url]http://rakovsky.ru/?s=16[/url]
:)
In Russia the statistic is simple.
In the age 15-45 females outnumber males 100:88.
Which means on 100 females age 15-45 comes 88 males the same age.
So russian women are at war among them in order to get the best man.
This is statistic only but in reality the number is much bigger since russian man have faster duying rate.
It's obvious in real live. If you visit a russian school for example in the class of 30 pupils less then 10 will be boys, usually 5-6.
So next time when you visit some fancy night club in Moscow no need to write in your report "women to men ratio is 3:1" since this is normal in Russia.
On the other hand in USA for example the situation is reversed. More men then women. Maybe this is the reason USA men are looking for women elsewhere.
Especially those who are over 55, bold, fat or whatever.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]I think it works just fine for American girls, it is only the enlightened few that are smart enough to venture beyond the borders...[/QUOTE]Hmmm...
Have to disagree with you there, Doc. I think it probably worked for a while, but there's a whole new generation of men here in America now and the strategy seems to be backfiring on them (women that is). But then, that's a whole 'nother subject for a whole 'nother time.
And it's not only the enlightened men who are venturing beyond our borders, the great unwashed are also beginning to catch on. Of course, it is still only the enlightened few that make the journey to eastern Europe. :)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Hmmm...
Have to disagree with you there, Doc. I think it probably worked for a while, but there's a whole new generation of men here in America now and the strategy seems to be backfiring on them (women that is). But then, that's a whole 'nother subject for a whole 'nother time.
And it's not only the enlightened men who are venturing beyond our borders, the great unwashed are also beginning to catch on. [/QUOTE]For the sake of my brethren, I hope you are right!
But yeah, it's another topic entirely.
[QUOTE=Kurenda]So next time when you visit some fancy night club in Moscow no need to write in your report "women to men ratio is 3:1" since this is normal in Russia.[/QUOTE]It has been nearly a decade since I've been to a fancy nighhtclub in Moscow with a 3:1 female:male ratio.
Most places are roughly 50:50 and regrettably there are even many places now with more men than women.
The mix at upscale (or even medium-scale) clubs has nothing to do with national demographics.
Where demographics play out positively are in student places, but even there it certainly isn't 3:1.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]It has been nearly a decade since I've been to a fancy nighhtclub in Moscow with a 3:1 female:male ratio.
Most places are roughly 50:50 and regrettably there are even many places now with more men than women.[/QUOTE]
I fully confirm this 50:50 ratio. Starting from 2.00 it becomes worst and worst in most of places.
[QUOTE=Kurenda]In Russia the statistic is simple.
In the age 15-45 females outnumber males 100: 88.
Which means on 100 females age 15-45 comes 88 males the same age.
So Russian women are at war among them in order to get the best man.
This is statistic only but in reality the number is much bigger since Russian man have faster duying rate.
It's obvious in real live. If you visit a Russian school for example in the class of 30 pupils less then 10 will be boys, usually 5-6.
So next time when you visit some fancy night club in Moscow no need to write in your report "women to men ratio is 3:1" since this is normal in Russia.
On the other hand in USA for example the situation is reversed. More men then women. Maybe this is the reason USA men are looking for women elsewhere.
Especially those who are over 55, bold, fat or whatever.[/QUOTE]You are so wrong, I was in wikipedia and the demographics for 15-45 is that there are more men than women. Even for the younger people there are more males. The only age group for fewer females is that group that are 60 or above. There is no more oversupply of women. That age is long gone.
[QUOTE=Castonthis] I was in wikipedia. Even for the younger people there are more males. There is no more oversupply of women.[/QUOTE]
What wikipedia doesn't say is that a significant percentage of the younger guys in FSU are rather uncultured, badly dressed, broke and dumb (well, this is maybe not valid for Piter or Moscow, but this is undoubtedly true in most Russian provinces, as in Caucasus, Stans, Moldova, ect, at least when you leave the big cities cosmopolitan bowels).
The demographics for 18-45 is maybe a 50:50 male to female ratio, but IMO the "eligible male" to female ratio in this part of the world is more something like 1:5.
[QUOTE=Prosal]What wikipedia doesn't say is that a significant percentage of the younger guys in FSU are rather uncultured, badly dressed, broke and dumb (well, this is maybe not valid for Piter or Moscow, but this is undoubtedly true in most Russian provinces, as in Caucasus, Stans, Moldova, ect, at least when you leave the big cities cosmopolitan bowels).
The demographics for 18-45 is maybe a 50:50 male to female ratio, but IMO the "eligible male" to female ratio in this part of the world is more something like 1:5.[/QUOTE]
Key word in that slew being [b]broke[/b]. No money, no honey...
[QUOTE=Prosal]What wikipedia doesn't say is that a significant percentage of the younger guys in FSU are rather uncultured, badly dressed, broke and dumb (well, this is maybe not valid for Piter or Moscow, but this is undoubtedly true in most Russian provinces, as in Caucasus, Stans, Moldova, ect, at least when you leave the big cities cosmopolitan bowels).
The demographics for 18-45 is maybe a 50:50 male to female ratio, but IMO the "eligible male" to female ratio in this part of the world is more something like 1:5.[/QUOTE]
So many Russian men are just 'gopniks' - sort of like white trash - they drink and smoke in the corridors of their Soviet housing blocks, don't know how to dress and live with their mothers until they are 30. It's a wonder that Russian women don't throw themselves at ANY foreigner. I mean - most women here can't look forward to anything more than living in a cramped 3-room flat with their mothers and children. I think that the girls that most foreigners have the best chance with are ones that have actually been abroad and know what normal Europeans are 'sposedta live like.
[QUOTE=Blaked]So many Russian men are just 'gopniks' - sort of like white trash -[/QUOTE]
Yeah, gopniki. I like this word!
To be witty with new Russian girls i-contacts, I often qualify myself of "gopnik" whose hobby is to get drunk (well, there's a part of truth in that!), which they usually find really fun coming from a Western guy, and much more entertaining than the boring BS they usually hear, like "...I'm a true gentleman, with good manners and strong values, decent, honest, faithful, serious, blah blah blah..".
:)
[QUOTE=Prosal]Yeah, gopniki. I like this word!
To be witty with new Russian girls i-contacts, I often qualify myself of "gopnik" whose hobby is to get drunk (well, there's a part of truth in that!), which they usually find really fun coming from a Western guy, and much more entertaining than the boring BS they usually hear, like "...I'm a true gentleman, with good manners and strong values, decent, honest, faithful, serious, blah blah blah..".
:)[/QUOTE]
Yeah - in a kinder world, being a 'true gentleman' would get you somewhere. I think such people are the most likely to end up raising another man's children.
[QUOTE=Passepartout]For the 18-22, i am 36 and starts to feel the difference. I would even say that I am not that interesting by them.
For the 24-28 office employee with recent bad experience, you are right there are plenty of them, looking for the kind guy we all are. Because we are very kind with them, we know that... :-)
Hey Pizdyets, we need to go to u&d, you are right... i'll be there probably on Friday with friends. If you are free, send an sms...[/QUOTE]
I've never been able to fall in love with anyone from category B. It's that category A that's always been interesting to me, and I'm 33. Girls from category B just seem a bit used up.
[QUOTE=Blaked]So many Russian men are just 'gopniks' - sort of like white trash - they drink and smoke in the corridors of their Soviet housing blocks, don't know how to dress and live with their mothers until they are 30. It's a wonder that Russian women don't throw themselves at ANY foreigner. I mean - most women here can't look forward to anything more than living in a cramped 3-room flat with their mothers and children. I think that the girls that most foreigners have the best chance with are ones that have actually been abroad and know what normal Europeans are 'sposedta live like.[/QUOTE]And the farther away you get from Moscow and St.Petes the more gopniky the guys get.
It's like corruption and xenophobia in Russia. Despite the best efforts anybody could make, it'll take a couple of generations to weed it out of them. If ever.
I say, long live the gopniks!
[QUOTE=Blaked]Girls from category B just seem a bit used up.[/QUOTE]Really???
Seems to me they're just getting started!! ;)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky]Really???
Seems to me they're just getting started!! ;)[/QUOTE]
I think a lot of it has to do with the age of the man, too. As I get older, I'm obviously still very attracted to the looks of 18-22 y.o. girls, but the whole silliness and immaturity really grates on me. Sure, a few girls in that age bracket are wise beyond their years and can talk about things other than which popstars they think are hot... but in my experience, they're few and far between, and tend to not be as hot as the sillier/stupider girls. Bimbo stereotype? Maybe. But that's my experience.
[QUOTE=Pizdyets]I think a lot of it has to do with the age of the man, too. As I get older, I'm obviously still very attracted to the looks of 18-22 y.o. girls, but the whole silliness and immaturity really grates on me.
Bimbo stereotype? Maybe. But that's my experience.[/QUOTE]I've been thinking the same thing myself, and stereotypes do exist for a reason. No matter how gorgeous that 19 y.o. might be, it's still tiresome having to explain everything to her. The irony is: you have this gorgeous teenage babe who is like a big gland, just walking around. But at the very moment in her life when she has the most potential, she has the least understanding of how to use it. It's a little like giving an atomic bomb to a chimpanzee.
Whereas... in 4 or 5 years, she will still have 90% of the potential, but 100% of the understanding. That's the kind of girl I want to meet.
As soon as I got to this town, I realized the use of salons and brothels would have to wait until I had some friends. Another problem is the nasty weather which has made the bars and nightclubs less than what I expected. My world in Moscow has been the Metro, Mcdonalds, and Starbucks.
When I was on the Metro later in the evening, I noticed all the 30 something devs going home. Attractive women with no wedding bands and probably not going home to a man. The surprising thing was I could not establish any eye contact whatsoever with these gals. I'm not Brad Pitt but I know that my looks are in the same league with these girls. Should of been some curiosity. Then there was the sweet and pretty girl behind the counter at Starbucks, again another girl that should have checked me out and did not. So after four days, it finally dawned on me, that I was just a foreigner passing through.
So this is what I changed. Instead of my cargo shorts and t-shirt, I grabbed some dress slacks and shoes and specifically targeted the girl at Starbucks. Everyday day I would show up in the morning at exactly the same time and made myself appear part of Corporate America. In her eyes, I was an employed man in Russia and not a tourist. Also, I took the ride through the Metro in the evening and yes I did get the looks.
As to the girl at starbucks, she will be escorting me to a museum tomorrow. So after spending almost $4000 dollars(flight hotel), I found a girl, who may actually like me, to take me to a mausoleum.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow]
So this is what I changed. Instead of my cargo shorts and t-shirt, I grabbed some dress slacks and shoes and specifically targeted the girl at Starbucks. [/QUOTE]
Molodets! Yes, Moscovites are highly attuned to style. I know it's impossible in this weather, but try wearing a suit to a club some time. It's deadly effective - take my word for it. I'm literally pushing girls off of me.
Best of luck with the Starbucks dyev!
[QUOTE=Climaxnow]Attractive women with no wedding bands.[/QUOTE]As a parenthesis, Russian women wear their wedding ring on the RIGHT hand (still on the finger next to the "pinky").
[QUOTE=Climaxnow]So this is what I changed. Instead of my cargo shorts and t-shirt, I grabbed some dress slacks and shoes and specifically targeted the girl at Starbucks. Everyday day I would show up in the morning at exactly the same time and made myself appear part of Corporate America. In her eyes, I was an employed man in Russia and not a tourist. Also, I took the ride through the Metro in the evening and yes I did get the looks.
As to the girl at starbucks, she will be escorting me to a museum tomorrow. So after spending almost $4000 dollars(flight hotel), I found a girl, who may actually like me, to take me to a mausoleum.[/QUOTE]
I guess you RTFF beforehand but did not absorb some of the lessons.
It has been repeated here many times that dressing well is a big factor for success.
So you could have saved yourself four days of frustration.
But hopefully the lesson is well-learned now and you are on your way to success with the Starbucks girl (and the subway girls).
Best wishes!
[QUOTE=Climaxnow]
I realized salons and brothels would have to wait until I spend $4000 dollars to find a girl to take me to a mausoleum.[/QUOTE]We're all a bit different, aren't we.
[QUOTE=Blaked]. It's a wonder that Russian women don't throw themselves at ANY foreigner. I mean. Most women here can't look forward to anything more than living in a cramped 3-room flat with their mothers and children.. QUOTE]This sounds like the situation from 1990's to me.
I have never been to Russia but am desperate to make it next year because what I hear is this:
Russia is fast turning into a western society. Moscow apparently resembling more something akin to Tokyo or NYC.
The other day I talked to a young (18 year old) Russian student here in the USA, and I asked him how he likes NYC. His answer was: "I'ts pretty cool, but in general, clubs ind the overall vibe in Moscow is more fun, more hip, more interesting".
I was really surprised and decided to re-check my assumptions. So I wonder if someone on this board would mind sharing a little about the OVERALL EXPERIENCE of being in Russia, not necessarily just St. Pete or Moskow. Maybe someone has been to more far-flung places like Vladivostok or even Blagoweschtschensk or Novosibirsk, Odessa. You know. The "real" russia.
I'm super-super-super curious about everything people write here. I love this forum. Seriously, all you guys who take the time to report on your goings-on, it is utterly appreciated by us newbies.
It seems to me things really have chenged a lot from 2002. Lots of posts from those years quote prices and experiences that I am almost certain are no longer true in 2010.
Anyone feel like sharing some recent insights?
Thanks in advcance.
[QUOTE=Timtimtimtim]
Odessa. You know. The "real" russia.
[/QUOTE]
Or maybe even the "real" Ukraine :)
[QUOTE=Timtimtimtim][QUOTE=Blaked]. It's a wonder that Russian women don't throw themselves at ANY foreigner. I mean. Most women here can't look forward to anything more than living in a cramped 3-room flat with their mothers and children.. [/QUOTE]This sounds like the situation from 1990's to me.
I have never been to Russia but am desperate to make it next year because what I hear is this:
Russia is fast turning into a western society. Moscow apparently resembling more something akin to Tokyo or NYC.
The other day I talked to a young (18 year old) Russian student here in the USA, and I asked him how he likes NYC. His answer was: "I'ts pretty cool, but in general, clubs ind the overall vibe in Moscow is more fun, more hip, more interesting".
I was really surprised and decided to re-check my assumptions. So I wonder if someone on this board would mind sharing a little about the OVERALL EXPERIENCE of being in Russia, not necessarily just St. Pete or Moskow. Maybe someone has been to more far-flung places like Vladivostok or even Blagoweschtschensk or Novosibirsk, Odessa. You know. The "real" russia.
I'm super-super-super curious about everything people write here. I love this forum. Seriously, all you guys who take the time to report on your goings-on, it is utterly appreciated by us newbies.
It seems to me things really have chenged a lot from 2002. Lots of posts from those years quote prices and experiences that I am almost certain are no longer true in 2010.
Anyone feel like sharing some recent insights?
Thanks in advcance.[/QUOTE]Yeah a hears my advice if you plan to venture into gopnick territory. Have balls of steal!
I met a 30 year old Russian on a beach in Thailand, we spent the evening talking until 2am until finally swapping email addresses and going our seperate ways.
1. She was sharing a hotel room with a Russian guy who she maintains was not her boyfriend.
2. Does not drink alcohol
3. Works in a corporate office as a beancounter
4. I could not see any emotions as to whether she was interested in anything more than chat.
I have no exposure to Russian women so I could not read the situation.
What's the deal here?
[QUOTE=Borisut]I met a 30 year old Russian on a beach in Thailand, we spent the evening talking until 2am until finally swapping email addresses and going our seperate ways.
1. She was sharing a hotel room with a Russian guy who she maintains was not her boyfriend.
2. Does not drink alcohol
3. Works in a corporate office as a beancounter
4. I could not see any emotions as to whether she was interested in anything more than chat.
I have no exposure to Russian women so I could not read the situation.
What's the deal here?[/QUOTE]
How old are you? 16?
Stayed chatting with a woman until 2am ... ... and can't read her?
What was your investment/return ratio?
Get real!!!
P13
[QUOTE=Pushkin13]Stayed chatting with a woman until 2am ... ... and can't read her?[/QUOTE]I can just imagine the text messages she's sending to her friends back home, "Went on vacation, met a foreign man, stayed up until 2:00am with him waiting for him to fuck me and the guy never made a move. What's wrong with these foreign guys, anyway???"
So what about the staid character?. Is it normal for Russian girls to sit there showing no emotions but all the time thinking "I wish he would take me home and fuck me senseless. "
Like I said I have no exposure to Russian culture, the way I read it was she was a girl that would take some working on and there wasn't going to be any fun that night, but you seem to think otherwise?
[QUOTE=Pushkin13] Stayed chatting with a woman until 2am ... ... and can't read her?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Borisut]I met a 30 year old Russian on a beach in Thailand, we spent the evening talking until 2am until finally swapping email addresses and going our seperate ways.
1. She was sharing a hotel room with a Russian guy who she maintains was not her boyfriend.
2. Does not drink alcohol
3. Works in a corporate office as a beancounter
4. I could not see any emotions as to whether she was interested in anything more than chat.
I have no exposure to Russian women so I could not read the situation.
What's the deal here?[/QUOTE]
You either have a problem selling yourself or with closing the deal. Given the fact that you were able to bore her out of her mind until 2AM & she still gave you her email, I suspect the selling wasn’t too bad, but the closing must have sucked.
So, here is some advice from an expert on how to seal the deal:
[QUOTE=Glengarry Glen Ross] “… You can't play in a man's game if You can't close them…
A-B-C. A-always, B-be, C-closing. Always be closing!
Always be closing!!
A-I-D-A. Attention, Interest, Decision, Action!
Attention -- do I have your attention?
Interest -- are you interested? I know you are because it's fuck or walk. You close or you hit the bricks!
Decision -- have you made your decision for Christ?!
and Action!
A-I-D-A! Get out there!!
Are you gonna take it? Are you man enough to take it?”[/QUOTE]Your case analysis:
Attention- you certainly caught here attention & you started playing the game.
Interest- you got her interested in yourself, otherwise why the hell would the two of you be talking until 2AM
Decision- have you made your decision for Christ?! WELL, HAVE YOU?! Looks like you didn’t
Action- what were you waiting for- a permission from her daddy to kiss her? This isn’t Victorian England. She told you herself that the Russian guy she was staying with is not her boyfriend!
Jesus, a woman is on vacation at an “exotic” destination chatting with you until two in the morning and tells you that the dude she is here with isn’t here boyfriend- she couldn’t make it more obvious that SHE wants YOU to take her back to YOUR room (or a secluded part of the beach) and fuck her, even if she had that written in capital letters all over her forehead.
Oh, fuck me twice! I forgot the best part- she doesn't drink. That means she is telling you all of this while sober. Why would someone of opposite sex stay up late into the night talking to a complete stranger while their "friend/sugar daddy/significant other/companion/looser" was holed up in their hotel room??
Do you still have her email address? You wouldn’t mind sharing it? Maybe I could get her to accompany me to a bean counter convention when I’m in Москва early next year. Then I’ll be able to talk business with her :) After all money is the most powerful aphrodisiac, her being a bean counter- she knows that!
You ask what's the deal. Here's the deal: Give me her email and when I'm back from Moskva next year I'll send you here naked pics. Sounds fair?
A recent adventure banging a Russian MILF freebie in Washington reminded me of one of the differentiating factors between Russian women and American women - pre-coital showering. I guess it's a good thing to get clean before getting dirty, but it is always a bit distracting. I mean you are working your way through the foreplay and trying to tease off those first few bits of clothing, when she abruptly excuses herself and heads for the bathroom. But then when you hear the shower running you know you are home (as if you did not already when she came up to your room)!
I guess Russian women are expecting more orifices to be in play and a lot of mouth-to-body part contact, so cleanliness is key. It is not uncommon for them to have both pre & post-coital showers, like my MILF did. Happily by the second round we were on sufficiently intimate terms to shower together, which usually leads to a second round of getting dirty again...
Whereas with a western woman (or my wife at least) an evening shower means "don't touch me - I just got clean, I don't want to get all sticky and dirty again".
[quote=timtimtimtim][quote=blaked]. it's a wonder that russian women don't throw themselves at any foreigner. i mean. most women here can't look forward to anything more than living in a cramped 3-room flat with their mothers and children.. quote]this sounds like the situation from 1990's to me.
i have never been to russia but am desperate to make it next year because what i hear is this:
russia is fast turning into a western society. moscow apparently resembling more something akin to tokyo or nyc.
the other day i talked to a young (18 year old) russian student here in the usa, and i asked him how he likes nyc. his answer was: "i'ts pretty cool, but in general, clubs ind the overall vibe in moscow is more fun, more hip, more interesting".
i was really surprised and decided to re-check my assumptions. so i wonder if someone on this board would mind sharing a little about the overall experience of being in russia, not necessarily just st. pete or moskow. maybe someone has been to more far-flung places like vladivostok or even blagoweschtschensk or novosibirsk, odessa. you know. the "real" russia.
i'm super-super-super curious about everything people write here. i love this forum. seriously, all you guys who take the time to report on your goings-on, it is utterly appreciated by us newbies.
it seems to me things really have chenged a lot from 2002. lots of posts from those years quote prices and experiences that i am almost certain are no longer true in 2010.
anyone feel like sharing some recent insights?
thanks in advcance.[/quote]stop the presses, i'm here to do the unforgivable, share info!
oh no! not that bez!!
yes yes, because timmy inadvertently revealed my home base of blagoshitstainunchuks. well, not exactly that oblast, but it sounded good.
but anyway, not about st pitr or moskva either, because they are the most western cities in the country. which is what most mongers want, so most go there, because its easier. but also expensive, for a tourist. for ex-pats, they get long term discounts and learn to live within the system.
but for you timmy, with your understandable urge to explore, in search of the still slightly unspoiled sweet slavic passion that only a girl from the real heart of the motherland has burning in her loins.....yes, you sort of guessed right that prices and experiences from 2002 are no longer true. depending on your decision between a hotel or apartment, between supermarkets and cooking or eating in restaurants, bars, and clubs, or drinking and strippers and saunas, you could budget $100 a day or $300 a day or $500 a day. you can be lazy and pay to have your food, drinks, and bed made for you, or you can do it yourself, and save 80% of your capital for generous sponsorships, which could make you popular and keep your schedule busy.
but guess what, its always changing, and that will always stay the same. its even different at different times of the year. in the summer, girls from the towns and small cities around the oblast capitals come in, and some come to make money. it could depend on what you are willing to invest, as to the degree of gfe you are given. the key, and the point, is to keep trying as many different approaches as you can, some will not be productive, and some will.
on the standard end of the agency biz, it seems that the old quickie 1 hour session that used to be about $80 is now back to $50, but that includes almost nothing but the "here's my hole, stick it in, and get it over with cause i gotta go they're waiting downstairs in the car for me and they're gonna beat the shit outa me of i don't hurry up and get the fuck out of here now" attitude.
or, on the other side of the coin, if you get dumb and lucky and meet someone that stands out from the drunken crowd of skanks, usually someone fairly new, you can pay those fuckers waiting down in the car to come back in a few hours, pour some wine for your new girlfriend , fill up your bathtub, light a candle, and then you can take it from there, i hope. and if you have enough style, there are some that you can help transform from quiet well behaved young ladies into depraved nymphos.
but what doesn't change, is the range of the variances in the girls. its wide. bad girls, nasty girls, nice girls, really nice girls, too nice girls, bitchy girls, and itchy girls. oh, and more importantly, greedy ones, and not so greedy. you get it? it means, that you can be sure you will find situations where your degree of success depends on your flexibility to go above and beyond. when the situation calls for that, you can buy an expensive ticket and ride the new roller-coaster. you know, the kind that drops 1000 feet vertical and then almost twists you in half at 120 mph, that when its over and you step off , you just let out a big breath of 'whew!", and you realize, that was amazing!
well, those girls are there. i never failed to meet and eat at least a few on every adventure.
the rest of the 'overall experience' that you are wondering about, is boring in comparison.
and i don't agree with climaxcow, that you need stalin's sack if you want to venture into gopnick territory. and though blaked had a point, that there probably was a short time when dyevs would think throwing themselves at a foreigner meant that their life would improve, i think they've now figured out, that foreigners are just not even around enough that it would ever make any difference anyway.
but, if you go back again, and again, and again, and some more after that, you can make a difference.
its really better explained by the new guy, saltypooperscooper, who did have the gopnicky steel balls to post not just one, but 3 fucking fotos of the greatest sales freak, alec the maniac, from the all time classic glenggr, espousing the mantra of close the deal because its fuck or walk, if you're god damn man enough.
check s7 sibair website, there's enough choices to choose, that you can fling yourself as far as you could possibly want to be flung. you don't need a guide book here for your 'overall experience', go out and create your own, its much more fun that way. ride a bus, ride the underground, sit in the park, blend in. make a lot of friends. you can learn how to play the game, its easy. all you need is balls.
the whole country of russia is not fast turning into a western society. moscow, tokyo, new york? those only represent what the biggest country's biggest city means. nobody goes to nyc or tokyo to find the nicest sweetest girls. in the non-tourist normal cities and towns, russia is still russia, and will still be russia for a long time, don't worry. and nothing could be better. it won't change, cause nobody's going there. its too big, and too far east.
What happened Bez - did Jackson delete all your offensive remarks?
Can we expect more of these pithy, informative posts?
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1095779]A recent adventure banging a Russian MILF freebie in Washington reminded me of one of the differentiating factors between Russian women and American women. Pre-coital showering. I guess it's a good thing to get clean before getting dirty, but it is always a bit distracting. I mean you are working your way through the foreplay and trying to tease off those first few bits of clothing, when she abruptly excuses herself and heads for the bathroom. But then when you hear the shower running you know you are home (as if you did not already when she came up to your room)!
I guess Russian women are expecting more orifices to be in play and a lot of mouth-to-body part contact, so cleanliness is key. It is not uncommon for them to have both pre & post-coital showers, like my MILF did. Happily by the second round we were on sufficiently intimate terms to shower together, which usually leads to a second round of getting dirty again.
Whereas with a western woman (or my wife at least) an evening shower means "don't touch me. I just got clean, I don't want to get all sticky and dirty again".[/QUOTE]That's something I noticed of Russian women too, they like to get incredibly clean before and after sex, including brushing their teeth. They can take an age in there but in my experience it hasn't been about 'expecting more orifices to be in play' merely that's how they're brought up. They also often insist that you shower too and give your dick a good clean. A few times I've taken my shower and will be getting it on with her giving me a BJ only for the girl to insist I go back and wash my dick again because she can taste my pre-cum juices. That IS annoying. I dated a Russian girl for a while who as soon as I got out of the shower would pull my foreskin back and smell it and if it wasn't up to her standards would insist I scrub it again, a kind of penis OCD. Once I passed her test however she would reward me with awesome head.
[QUOTE=Borderland;1211664]That's something I noticed of Russian women too, they like to get incredibly clean before and after sex, including brushing their teeth. They can take an age in there but in my experience it hasn't been about 'expecting more orifices to be in play' merely that's how they're brought up. They also often insist that you shower too and give your dick a good clean. A few times I've taken my shower and will be getting it on with her giving me a BJ only for the girl to insist I go back and wash my dick again because she can taste my pre-cum juices. That IS annoying. I dated a Russian girl for a while who as soon as I got out of the shower would pull my foreskin back and smell it and if it wasn't up to her standards would insist I scrub it again, a kind of penis OCD. Once I passed her test however she would reward me with awesome head.[/QUOTE]This is has nothing to do with Russian women. It has to do with normal cleanliness that differentiates people who want to be clean vs. People who do not care about it. In German FKKs I have gotten many complements of being clean just by taking shower before the deed. My advise to you all is that take shower as much as you can and you will be rewarded more then you think you will.
H
All "players" hunting in the FSU territories know that attractive and charming MILFs, who are sexually and emotionally starving, are available ad nauseum in this part of the world.
I love early 20's girls, but more and more I opt for the option of hunting 28 + ladies. Although I have never specifically pursued single moms, I have run across more than a few. And many of them are still looking really really great. With this group, what has worked for me is the basic romantic dating approach. A date over dinner with wine usually does the trick. The only thing they are really looking for is spending nice time. Romance and personality go far with them. And especially experience, refinment (not only but including in dressing style) witt and intelligence. Also what is great with this group is that once they are yours they tend to fuck you like true freaks, as they know that the end of their sexual life approaches. And they have absolutly no materialistic expectations.
Was this week: 36 yo, no kids. 1.75 cm (5'8") , great slender body, vacationning in Paris. Dated through mamba, meeting in Saint Germain des Pres. Three bottles of Chardonnay in a nice cafe, a few Baileys in another one. Et voila, making up in my apartment at noon after a night (we fucked during something like five hours) of 1000 mph passionate, no holds barred (as usual with Russian women) sex.
[QUOTE=Hedonian;1211666]This is has nothing to do with Russian women[/QUOTE]What makes Russian women special (beside their striking beauty, their emotional generosity, their deap-seated wish for submission, their loyalty, their cultural knowledge, and their ardor for sex) is that they not only dress to impress, but also to seduce. Stockings, heels and fine lingerie are mandatory accessories for them. Which is great.
[QUOTE=Prosal; 1214367]All "players" hunting in the FSU territories know that attractive and charming MILFs, who are sexually and emotionally starving, are available ad nauseum in this part of the world.
I love early 20's girls, but more and more I opt for the option of hunting 28 + ladies. Although I have never specifically pursued single moms, I have run across more than a few. And many of them are still looking really really great. With this group, what has worked for me is the basic romantic dating approach. A date over dinner with wine usually does the trick. The only thing they are really looking for is spending nice time. Romance and personality go far with them. And especially experience, refinment (not only but including in dressing style) witt and intelligence. Also what is great with this group is that once they are yours they tend to fuck you like true freaks, as they know that the end of their sexual life approaches. And they have absolutly no materialistic expectations.
Was this week: 36 yo, no kids. 1.75 cm (5'8") , great slender body, vacationning in Paris. Dated through mamba, meeting in Saint Germain des Pres. Three bottles of Chardonnay in a nice cafe, a few Baileys in another one. Et voila, making up in my apartment at noon after a night (we fucked during something like five hours) of 1000 mph passionate, no holds barred (as usual with Russian women) sex.[/QUOTE]Great work Prosal, she looks very nice indeed.
As a man entering middle age it's great to have it confirmed that the over 30 age group in Russia is far from being a disappointment, and in fact seems to be one that should be targeted specifically for the high standard of women contained within. Great news.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1214460]What makes Russian women special (beside their striking beauty, their emotional generosity, their deap-seated wish for submission, their loyalty, their cultural knowledge, and their ardor for sex) is that they not only dress to impress, but also to seduce. Stockings, heels and fine lingerie are mandatory accessories for them. Which is great.[/QUOTE]Prosal, these dispatches are most heartening and also chime with this writer's experiences.
Keep up the good work, old boy!
VG
[QUOTE=Prosal;1214460]What makes Russian women special (beside their striking beauty, their emotional generosity, their deap-seated wish for submission, their loyalty, their cultural knowledge, and their ardor for sex) is that they not only dress to impress, but also to seduce. Stockings, heels and fine lingerie are mandatory accessories for them. Which is great.[/QUOTE]Amen brother. Yesterday was our really first cold snap in Moscow. We woke to a chilly minus 10C which eventually crept up to near freezing. But this first cold snap has a bight side as it brought out all of the winter regalia that the Moscvitcha's are famous for. On the walk from the the metro to my office I was treated to a beautiful display of shapely legs in tight pants slid into knee high leather boots. Now, it's no substitute for the scanty summer outfit these girls wear to the office, but there was just something about seeing all of the new winter clothes these girls have bought for the season that gives me a little tingle. New coats with fur collars and hoods, furry little hats and tight leggings that seem to have been spray painted on. Almost makes the Moscow winter bearable.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1214999]Amen brother. Yesterday was our really first cold snap in Moscow.[/QUOTE]In Paris also yesterday was a bit cold, but nothing to prevent a Russian dev from strolling around with a bareback stomach. (wink)
[QUOTE=Borderland; 1214874]Great work Prosal, she looks very nice indeed.
As a man entering middle age it's great to have it confirmed that the over 30 age group in Russia is far from being a disappointment, and in fact seems to be one that should be targeted specifically for the high standard of women contained within. Great news.[/QUOTE]Those Russian 30 and so women who travel extensively usually are working mentally and physically draining jobs and need some adventure, romance and sex, provided that it is with a man of same cultural and social level. At this age a woman expects a man to be successful and intelligent, anything less isn't a man worth fucking.
By the way, we finished pretty drunk yesterday night in the designer's apartment where she lives during her week in Paris (which belongs to her best friend's sponsor). I took some pics (smilie).
[QUOTE=Borderland;1214874]As a man entering middle age it's great to have it confirmed that the over 30 age group in Russia is far from being a disappointment[/QUOTE]I myself already got into middle age and honestly, I find the late teens BS more and more insufferable. I had a 19 yo GF last winter (who came straight from Omsk) who couldn't take her hands from her smartphone to constantly SMS her friends, check her FaceBook or Vkontakte "walls", ect ect. Even at cinema. It was simply silly. Even the way she dressed sometimes embarrassed me, very "Russian provinces hot teen" style. She was fun to be with though, which counterbalanced. (smilie)
[QUOTE=Prosal;1215466]. I had a 19 yo GF last winter (who came straight from Omsk) who couldn't take her hands from her smartphone to constantly SMS her friends, check her FaceBook or Vkontakte "walls", ect ect. Even at cinema. It was simply silly. Even the way she dressed sometimes embarrassed me, very "Russian provinces hot teen" style.[/QUOTE]Wait. I am a little confused. This photo is of the teeny-bopper provincalka. Right? Surely not the 30 year old. Right?
[QUOTE=Jake993;1215701]Wait. I am a little confused. This photo is of the teeny-bopper provincalka. Right? Surely not the 30 year old. Right?[/QUOTE]Right. Last pic is the 19 yo Siberian gopotelka (well, she doesn't deserve this epithet, just to joke) playing with her mobile.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1215466]I myself already got into middle age and honestly, I find the late teens BS more and more insufferable. I had a 19 yo GF last winter (who came straight from Omsk) who couldn't take her hands from her smartphone to constantly SMS her friends, check her FaceBook or Vkontakte "walls", ect ect. Even at cinema. It was simply silly. Even the way she dressed sometimes embarrassed me, very "Russian provinces hot teen" style. She was fun to be with though, which counterbalanced. (smilie)[/QUOTE]Yeah, I even notice the difference between the 18-19 yo and the 22-23 yo. Leila, who I have been sponsoring since March '08 turned 22 this last October. I picked up her little sister this summer, she turned 18, and I can see a big difference between the two, as well as my attitude toward the younger versus the older.
In '08 I didn't notice all of those annoying 18 yo habits. The phone, the tardiness, the "whatever" attitude. Now they annoy me. But still, not annoying enough to kick her out of bed in the morning. Even when the first thing she reaches for is her phone.
Cheers
Gentlemen:
I have a friend. Mid 50's. Just got put on disability a year ago because of an accident at work. Approximately 10 years ago he goes to Russian and meets "the love of his life" at a romance social. 1st mistake. The letter's flow and he goes back and sees her and files for a Fiancee Visa with immigration and brings her and her teenage son and daughter to "the land of the big PX".2nd mistake. He is from Wyoming and has no education except a GED. Has a good union job and makes a 110K per year. She doesn't like Wyoming (she is from Kingissep) and talks him into giving up his seniority and moving to the Pacific Northwest. Well, her being a city girl she wants the best house, car, money. 2K purses. The list goes on an on. Fast forward 9 years. He's injured and placed on disibility and she now has a green card, good job, and her kids have been educated compliments of his 401K. On top of that he got her son out of being drafted into the Russian army. She decides that she doesn't want him around all the time and says she wants out. THEN the credit card bills arrive to the tune of 57K. He get's hung for all of it and has to declare bankruptcy. The house is stripped of the leather couches and all the goodies when he come home to a restraining order. He has to pay income tax on the 401K loans and is virtually BROKE. And disabled with no job. When you meet these girls BEWARE! They are no different than the ladies here in the US. Sometimes worse and the legal system protects them to no end from the "sex-maniac" Americans. Trust me gents the word is out over there on how to clean someone out and leave. P4P for ever!
[QUOTE=PeterTheGreat; 1234895]Gentlemen:
I have a friend. Mid 50's. Just got put on disability a year ago because of an accident at work. Approximately 10 years ago he goes to Russian and meets "the love of his life" at a romance social. 1st mistake. The letter's flow and he goes back and sees her and files for a Fiancee Visa with immigration and brings her and her teenage son and daughter to "the land of the big PX".2nd mistake. He is from Wyoming and has no education except a GED. Has a good union job and makes a 110K per year. She doesn't like Wyoming (she is from Kingissep) and talks him into giving up his seniority and moving to the Pacific Northwest. Well, her being a city girl she wants the best house, car, money. 2K purses. The list goes on an on. Fast forward 9 years. He's injured and placed on disibility and she now has a green card, good job, and her kids have been educated compliments of his 401K. On top of that he got her son out of being drafted into the Russian army. She decides that she doesn't want him around all the time and says she wants out. THEN the credit card bills arrive to the tune of 57K. He get's hung for all of it and has to declare bankruptcy. The house is stripped of the leather couches and all the goodies when he come home to a restraining order. He has to pay income tax on the 401K loans and is virtually BROKE. And disabled with no job. When you meet these girls BEWARE! They are no different than the ladies here in the US. Sometimes worse and the legal system protects them to no end from the "sex-maniac" Americans. Trust me gents the word is out over there on how to clean someone out and leave. P4P for ever![/QUOTE]Thanks for sharing! And I think this post will benefit many out there. I feel sorry for your friend and hope he will survive this.
In fsu mothers tell too daughters, find rich and educated. In fsu coutreys money and status is by far most important to people and in this case girls.
Now women in western world are not perfect, yes they have some amazing expectations too the man. And are extremly spoilt. At least many of them. But at least most of them are honnest!
I am going too have fun with fsu girls in the future for many years. Tho if one day I deside to marridge am pretty sure its going to be western woman.
[QUOTE=PeterTheGreat; 1234895]Gentlemen:
I have a friend. Mid 50's. Just got put on disability a year ago because of an accident at work. Approximately 10 years ago he goes to Russian and meets "the love of his life" at a romance social. 1st mistake. The letter's flow and he goes back and sees her and files for a Fiancee Visa with immigration and brings her and her teenage son and daughter to "the land of the big PX".2nd mistake. He is from Wyoming and has no education except a GED. Has a good union job and makes a 110K per year. She doesn't like Wyoming (she is from Kingissep) and talks him into giving up his seniority and moving to the Pacific Northwest. Well, her being a city girl she wants the best house, car, money. 2K purses. The list goes on an on. Fast forward 9 years. He's injured and placed on disibility and she now has a green card, good job, and her kids have been educated compliments of his 401K. On top of that he got her son out of being drafted into the Russian army. She decides that she doesn't want him around all the time and says she wants out. THEN the credit card bills arrive to the tune of 57K. He get's hung for all of it and has to declare bankruptcy. The house is stripped of the leather couches and all the goodies when he come home to a restraining order. He has to pay income tax on the 401K loans and is virtually BROKE. And disabled with no job. When you meet these girls BEWARE! They are no different than the ladies here in the US. Sometimes worse and the legal system protects them to no end from the "sex-maniac" Americans. Trust me gents the word is out over there on how to clean someone out and leave. P4P for ever![/QUOTE]This could of happened if he married his high school sweetheart from Wyoming. People do shitty things to one another. Tough break.
[QUOTE=PeterTheGreat; 1234895]Gentlemen:
I have a friend. Mid 50's. Just got put on disability a year ago because of an accident at work. Approximately 10 years ago he goes to Russian and meets "the love of his life" at a romance social. 1st mistake. The letter's flow and he goes back and sees her and files for a Fiancee Visa with immigration and brings her and her teenage son and daughter to "the land of the big PX".2nd mistake. He is from Wyoming and has no education except a GED. Has a good union job and makes a 110K per year. She doesn't like Wyoming (she is from Kingissep) and talks him into giving up his seniority and moving to the Pacific Northwest. Well, her being a city girl she wants the best house, car, money. 2K purses. The list goes on an on. Fast forward 9 years. He's injured and placed on disibility and she now has a green card, good job, and her kids have been educated compliments of his 401K. On top of that he got her son out of being drafted into the Russian army. She decides that she doesn't want him around all the time and says she wants out. THEN the credit card bills arrive to the tune of 57K. He get's hung for all of it and has to declare bankruptcy. The house is stripped of the leather couches and all the goodies when he come home to a restraining order. He has to pay income tax on the 401K loans and is virtually BROKE. And disabled with no job. When you meet these girls BEWARE! They are no different than the ladies here in the US. Sometimes worse and the legal system protects them to no end from the "sex-maniac" Americans. Trust me gents the word is out over there on how to clean someone out and leave. P4P for ever![/QUOTE]And the moral of the story, if you're crazy enough to marry one of these girls, live in her country.
I don't trust any woman! I always tell these guys on here p4p is the way. I got buddys, I want love! Cry me a fucking river, stop being stupid. Just enjoy a woman and realize that its going to end. I got one buddy that says he is unhappy at home thats why he wants to leave and be with his new girlfriend. (His wife is a pretty damn good wife to0) I say you stupid mother fucker if you think your unhappy now wait till your wife and three yound kids are done with you, this guys been married 20years, big house, toys and has nothing to be unhappy about. Anyway thank god the relationship with the mistress tanked because I really think the dumb fuck was going to leave his wife. Now he is happy he didn't do that! This ***** he was running with was 20 years younger then him I said sure she is fun but dotn leave your wife for her you dumb fuck! Kind of got off the storry but fact is all women do this to men. Most men are fuking stupid, thank god I had a dad that taught me right.
[QUOTE=PeterTheGreat; 1234895]Gentlemen:
I have a friend. Mid 50's. Just got put on disability a year ago because of an accident at work. Approximately 10 years ago he goes to Russian and meets "the love of his life" at a romance social. 1st mistake. The letter's flow and he goes back and sees her and files for a Fiancee Visa with immigration and brings her and her teenage son and daughter to "the land of the big PX".2nd mistake. He is from Wyoming and has no education except a GED. Has a good union job and makes a 110K per year. She doesn't like Wyoming (she is from Kingissep) and talks him into giving up his seniority and moving to the Pacific Northwest. Well, her being a city girl she wants the best house, car, money. 2K purses. The list goes on an on. Fast forward 9 years. He's injured and placed on disibility and she now has a green card, good job, and her kids have been educated compliments of his 401K. On top of that he got her son out of being drafted into the Russian army. She decides that she doesn't want him around all the time and says she wants out. THEN the credit card bills arrive to the tune of 57K. He get's hung for all of it and has to declare bankruptcy. The house is stripped of the leather couches and all the goodies when he come home to a restraining order. He has to pay income tax on the 401K loans and is virtually BROKE. And disabled with no job. When you meet these girls BEWARE! They are no different than the ladies here in the US. Sometimes worse and the legal system protects them to no end from the "sex-maniac" Americans. Trust me gents the word is out over there on how to clean someone out and leave. P4P for ever![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1234935]Sad story but not a reason to down Russian women.[/QUOTE]+1. I'd even say that this (admittedly sad) story is more likely to happen with a western woman. For Russian women, passion and emotions dominate above logic and reason. The feminine characters of Russian classic literature (Aglae Epantchine in "The Idiot", Grouchenka in "The Brothers Karamasov", Natasha Rostova in "War $ Peace", ect) are very representaive of this frame of mind. A Russian woman will follow you in hell if she has decided that has to do so.
Good approach, but don't thank god and father, thank yourself: most users here have god and father and they haven't understood that yet! From a different point of view, a beautiful and piggish "wife" (but not marriage, just co-living) is the cheapest and best solution for a man. The real and genuine people live in a thousands-years-old social system that works with the misinformation, the misinformation is the social system! For the real and genuine people, the real love exists just with a glance of complicity, it never needs contracts, marriages, religions, real estate, cash. And therefore 90% of the stable relationships are lasting just because of good lifestyle, surely not for love. As you said, your friend has a good lifestyle and this is the reason for what his wife still stays with him (until she won't find anybody better).
[QUOTE=You Can;1234989]I don't trust any woman! I always tell these guys on here p4p is the way. I got buddys, I want love! Cry me a fucking river, stop being stupid. Just enjoy a woman and realize that its going to end. I got one buddy that says he is unhappy at home thats why he wants to leave and be with his new girlfriend. (His wife is a pretty damn good wife to0) I say you stupid mother fucker if you think your unhappy now wait till your wife and three yound kids are done with you, this guys been married 20years, big house, toys and has nothing to be unhappy about. Anyway thank god the relationship with the mistress tanked because I really think the dumb fuck was going to leave his wife. Now he is happy he didn't do that! This ***** he was running with was 20 years younger then him I said sure she is fun but dotn leave your wife for her you dumb fuck! Kind of got off the storry but fact is all women do this to men. Most men are fuking stupid, thank god I had a dad that taught me right.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Bez Bezarra; 1095954]
[QUOTE=Timtimtimtim]The whole country of Russia is not fast turning into a western society. Moscow, Tokyo, New York? Those only represent what the biggest country's biggest city means. Nobody goes to NYC or Tokyo to find the nicest sweetest girls. In the non-tourist normal cities and towns, Russia is still Russia, and will still be Russia for a long time, don't worry. And nothing could be better. It won't change, cause nobody's going there. Its too big, and too far east.[/QUOTE]Sure. As long as you are not embarrassed when people point at you "vot inastranse". He is here looking for girls for sex, the sex tourist. So, enlighten me, what do you tell people when they ask you what is a Western man doing in some remote eastern oblast in Russia, in a place where all Russian men want to get out? I bet you are going to say that you like their culture and you want to explore or you are some journalist writing an article.
Bo ha ha. They may be poor but they are not stupid.
[QUOTE=Borisut; 1094360]I met a 30 year old Russian on a beach in Thailand, we spent the evening talking until 2am until finally swapping email addresses and going our seperate ways.
1. She was sharing a hotel room with a Russian guy who she maintains was not her boyfriend.
2. Does not drink alcohol.
3. Works in a corporate office as a beancounter.
4. I could not see any emotions as to whether she was interested in anything more than chat.
I have no exposure to Russian women so I could not read the situation.
What's the deal here?[/QUOTE]Please don't take notice of the negative replies who got, labeling you as "inexperienced" etc. I have rooted scores of Russian and Ukrainian girls over the past decade, normal girls / not prostitutes, and I can tell you that if I were in your situation, I would get a mixed signal.
1. The fact that she was with a man sharing the hotel room means nothing. She is staying with you, not with him, till 2AM. I have fucked many Russian women, who were with their husbands vacationing, even when the husband was a few meters behind. It is dangerous because these guys have no mercy, they will bash you till you become a vegetable, so you must be careful.
Anyway, she was game regardless of that dude in her room.
2. The fact that she did not drink alcohol tells me that she does not want to have sex. All Russian women lie about their drinking, that they do not drink etc. But as the night progress, they start drinking. And the more they drink, the more it is an invitation for sex. I mean when you are only 2, alone, together.
Also note, that Russian women are serial liars, so I do not believe one word that comes out of their mouth.
You were in a difficult situation, you got mixed signals, and please do not feel bad for not having sex with her. Even the most seasoned experienced guy may have done nothing in that situation.
But I hope this experience shed some light on the true natural character of these Russian women. In my opinion, great for sex. But as human beings, they are the lowest of the lowest.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 996156]Ppt,
&1084; &1086; &1083; &1086; &1076; &1077; &1094; ! Nothing wrong with you. Single moms between 25 & 35 are the undiscovered Mother Lode of Russia. The sadder but wiser girl for me, I always say.
You are very fortunate that you have the time to cultivate these kinds of relationships. Take full advantage of it while you can.[/QUOTE]Please guys. Do not mess with those single mother type of women. I mean, honestly, is it not a VERY LOW ACT to pray on an injured vulnerable woman, leading her on, insinuating that you are going to get serious and marry her, even worse, insinuating that you will become a step-father for her children.
Is it not a VERY LOW ACT to get the children attached to you, being nice to them, may be buy them toys and gifts, play with them, lead them to believe that you will become their future step-father, only to dump them with their mothers when you feel that it is time to move on to another victim and prey?
All this emotional mess to have sex?
Please get back to your senses. I say this because I have a very close friend who has done this, only last year, and he now regrets it. He cannot overcome his guilt.
I would rather masturbate, to be honest.
[QUOTE=Markharding; 1236875]Please guys. Do not mess with those single mother type of women. I mean, honestly, is it not a VERY LOW ACT to pray on an injured vulnerable woman, leading her on, insinuating that you are going to get serious and marry her, even worse, insinuating that you will become a step-father for her children.
Is it not a VERY LOW ACT to get the children attached to you, being nice to them, may be buy them toys and gifts, play with them, lead them to believe that you will become their future step-father, only to dump them with their mothers when you feel that it is time to move on to another victim and prey?
All this emotional mess to have sex?
Please get back to your senses. I say this because I have a very close friend who has done this, only last year, and he now regrets it. He cannot overcome his guilt.
I would rather masturbate, to be honest.[/QUOTE]You state that all Russian women are serial liars than you go to some high moral ground of not messing with single mothers. Confused hobbyists, such as yourself, tarnish the image of men and women that simply would like to meet and enjoy themselves. There is no need to lie, manipulate, or what ever shit you think it takes to score women in the FSU. Russian milfs, all milfs of the world as a matter of fact, at times would like to take breaks from there mundane world and enjoy the companionship of another person. Is it so hard to believe that a single women may like to go out on a date and have sex with a stranger with no strings attached? Regardless of what you believe, true mongers do not spread grief only scary amateurs like you can do that.
[QUOTE=Markharding; 1236875]Please guys. Do not mess with those single mother type of women. I mean, honestly, is it not a VERY LOW ACT to pray on an injured vulnerable woman, leading her on, insinuating that you are going to get serious and marry her, even worse, insinuating that you will become a step-father for her children.
Is it not a VERY LOW ACT to get the children attached to you, being nice to them, may be buy them toys and gifts, play with them, lead them to believe that you will become their future step-father, only to dump them with their mothers when you feel that it is time to move on to another victim and prey?
All this emotional mess to have sex?
Please get back to your senses. I say this because I have a very close friend who has done this, only last year, and he now regrets it. He cannot overcome his guilt.
I would rather masturbate, to be honest.[/QUOTE]Mark, I think you're missing the point here.
As Climaxnow said: [i]Russian milfs, all milfs of the world as a matter of fact, at times would like to take breaks from there mundane world and enjoy the companionship of another person. Is it so hard to believe that a single women may like to go out on a date and have sex with a stranger with no strings attached? [/i]
I don't think for a second that Stravinsky was advocating an amoral, sexual scorched earth policy but just recognising what is basically true the world over.
And particularly so in Russia where many middle-aged women lead lives of 'quiet desperation' and are quite capable of spicing it up with an occasional, no-strings romp or two without convincing themselves or even desiring that a door has been opened into a new life in the sun.
I've finally reached my FILF (I hope!) Years and enjoy meeting this type of lady 'on tour' and assure you there are seldom any misunderstandings on either side.
VG.
[QUOTE=Markharding;1236875]I mean, honestly, is it not a VERY LOW ACT to pray on an injured vulnerable woman[/QUOTE]Markharding,
I am sorry for you that you have such a low opinion of Russian women. If you spend more time with them, you will understand what Gergiev is trying to say. They are much more resilient than you might think (God bless 'em).
Perhaps you are the one who cannot overcome his guilt?
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1237880]Markharding,
I am sorry for you that you have such a low opinion of Russian women.[/QUOTE]Don't know why you guys bother answer to such raving negative BS.
Dasha (32yo) and Tatiana (31yo) , last week at a georgian place. Shashliks were to die for. (smilie)
[QUOTE=Gergiev; 1237820]Mark, I think you're missing the point here.
As Climaxnow said: [i]Russian milfs, all milfs of the world as a matter of fact, at times would like to take breaks from there mundane world and enjoy the companionship of another person. Is it so hard to believe that a single women may like to go out on a date and have sex with a stranger with no strings attached? [/i]
I don't think for a second that Stravinsky was advocating an amoral, sexual scorched earth policy but just recognising what is basically true the world over.
And particularly so in Russia where many middle-aged women lead lives of 'quiet desperation' and are quite capable of spicing it up with an occasional, no-strings romp or two without convincing themselves or even desiring that a door has been opened into a new life in the sun.
I've finally reached my FILF (I hope!) Years and enjoy meeting this type of lady 'on tour' and assure you there are seldom any misunderstandings on either side.[/QUOTE]I think the key here is not to mislead her with all kinds of marriage BS.
I agree with most of the posts here, that this can be a fun outing for them, of which they have too few in their difficult lives.
Focus on giving them a good time and they will remember the experience fondly.
But they know the score -that you are not going to "take them away from all this" - except for a night, a weekend, or a week in Paris!
[QUOTE=Gergiev;1237820]I've finally reached my FILF (I hope!) Years and enjoy meeting this type of lady 'on tour' and assure you there are seldom any misunderstandings on either side. VG.[/QUOTE]It is personally with mid to upper class Russian MILFs (30-40 yo) that I've had some of the best uninhibited and UNCOMPLICATED sex. That said, they are often so attractive, nice, witty, smart, cultured, indulgent, fun, honest, emotional, passionate, loyal, unselfish and incentive that it is hard not putting a bit too much of emotions and commitment in the relationship. You can't find better women.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1237985]But they know the score -that you are not going to "take them away from all this"[/QUOTE]None of the Russian women I've had an adventure or a relationship with had any desire to be "taken away from all this". Despite their often intellectually and physically draining jobs and the harshness of Moscow or Piter's everyday life, they had NO desire to leave Russia. They have there a busy cultural and social life, they travel a lot, they have access to some of the best things their society has to offer, ect.
Of course, the Ukrainian MILF in Harkov or Nikolaiev working a modest job, having difficulties to make ends meet, single with a kid, ect, is a whole different matter, but personally it is not my target. I don't want to touch a "desesperate" woman with a 10" pole. Too complicated.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1237985]I agree with most of the posts here, that this can be a fun outing for them, of which they have too few in their difficult lives.
Focus on giving them a good time and they will remember the experience fondly.[/QUOTE]Actually, often it is not even about giving them a break from the everyday hardships. Is it about making them feel desired.
Russian women want to be admired and sexually desired. This is not unique to Russians, but is very much central to their psyche and culture, much more so than in North America.
And as a woman ages past her "best before date", and acquires the trappings of Russian womanhood (divorce, kids) she is less and less likely to experience this in her daily life.
So your pursuing her, admiring her, wining & dining her, and fucking her brains out, gives her a sense of self-worth and validates her as a human being.
She is likely to sincerely thank you for your attentions. She should be paying you.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1238050]She is likely to sincerely thank you for your attentions. She should be paying you.[/QUOTE]GT, with all due respect to your expertise, I think you miss the point, or maybe we don't talk about the same "target group". A sophisticated 8+ Russian woman, even at 30 yo, gets hitted 20 times a day, be it in her hometown or in vacations. I talked this weekend at a restaurant with a 33 yo professional from Moscow working for a big pharmaceutic firm and currently in business trip in Paris, who told me she had been hitted 100 times since she was here, and that she rejected all 100. All of my GFs told me the same thing. Those 8+ sophisticated MILF are perfectly aware of their "value". What they look for is not only to be desired (there would have millions of men able to fulfill this task) , but to be charmed by a CORRESPONDINGLY refined man aware of their culture and their psyche. That said, you are right in a way, they want to be sex objects to be seduced and dominated over and over again. But with the right man. Just to put things in perspective, so that the guys who read this thread don't get wrong. Russian women, MILFs included, are NOT easy targets.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1238066]Just to put things in perspective, so that the guys who read this thread don't get wrong. Russian women, MILFs included, are NOT easy targets.[/QUOTE]Well, at least not in Pareezh, anyway. (big smile)
[quote=prosal;1238066].but to be charmed by a correspondingly refined man aware of their culture and their psyche. that said, you are right in a way, they want to be sex objects to be seduced and dominated over and over again. but with the right man. just to put things in perspective, so that the guys who read this thread don't get wrong. russian women, milfs included, are not easy targets.[/quote]prosal,
you bring up an excellent point. i think that a lot of people who read this forum get the impression that russian women are easy targets. but they are not. and most certainly not if they are 8. 5+. i agree with you in that they know their relative worth and are not an easy target just because some dude says,"hey, honey, let's fuck". having said that, the sheer volume of such creatures in moscow (and some other places in russia) really helps the law of averages. i look at moscow as being one big "speed dating session". i was at a professional networking function earlier in the fall. the make up of the attendees were about 75% russian women (english speaking to one degree or another) and 25% foreign guys. it was clear that a significant percentage of the women (milfs included) were interested in "hooking up". but they were not going to hook up with just any guy. they were looking for the right combo of looks, charm, x-factor, etc. and it takes no more than about 60 seconds for one of these girls to decide if you are "dateable" or not. and if you aren't? hey, move on to the next one. if only a matter of time until you find one who's willing to take you for a spin.
in other societies, getting rejected within 60 seconds might make a guy reel and want to re-evaluate his approach, his wardrobe. whatever. but in moscow, it's just a signal to move on and try the next one. because there will be a next one.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1238267]But they were NOT going to hook up with just any guy.[/QUOTE]In my experience, Russian women put the highest emphasis on intellectual harmony, and if you fit in, there is no door really closed, contrarily to other countries (notally in Asia or SA) where it is virtually impossible for a foreigner to score in the higher strats of the society. I was lunching last summer with a Russian GF when two gorgeous high-class Russian women sat at the table adjacent, one was Vika Bonia (the other a well-known singer whose I forgot the name). We wittily chatted with them during one hour, and I intuitivelly felt that it was very very doable with Vika. Too bad I was accompanied (sight). It cemented my feeling that no girl is really "off limits" in Russia as long as you intellectually, socially and physically fit in.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1238066]GT, . maybe we don't talk about the same "target group". A sophisticated 8+ Russian woman, even at 30 yo, gets hitted 20 times a day, be it in her hometown or in vacations. I talked this weekend at a restaurant with a 33 yo professional from Moscow working for a big pharmaceutic firm and currently in business trip in Paris, who told me she had been hitted 100 times since she was here, and that she rejected all 100. All of my GFs told me the same thing. Those 8+ sophisticated MILF are perfectly aware of their "value".[/QUOTE]I don't pretend to be an expert. You and Jake each have 10X the experience I do, but I am surprised to hear that.
Maybe I am working further down the food chain than you are, because this is not my experience.
I am talking about women slightly older, maybe 35+- and maybe below 8 on your scale. I really get the sense they are under-serviced in the dating market.
I have had reasonable success getting dates with these women and probably 50% success rate of sex on first or second date.
Some of these have been in North American cities, where I certainly could not get a date with their North American equivalent.
These women are past the "first blush" of youth and feel it acutely. Sure they are still good looking and stylish. But there is a mass of younger and prettier girls crowding them out of the market. Somewhere between the girls I contact and the ones you contact, the mass of men must stop calling.
As for "easy". Well, that depends on your point of reference. Easy compared to dating and scoring with a North American woman in my situation (middle-aged and married)!
One of the fun features of dating Russian women is that sex is always on the table (well, maybe not literally) , and both parties know that. But it is relatively easy to get into the topic, even in early e-mails and on a date. Not that it is a foregone conclusion, but the woman is under no illusions about how you expect the evening to end, and will be seriously considering that possibility throughout.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1237995]. Of course, the Ukrainian MILF in Harkov or Nikolaiev working a modest job, having difficulties to make ends meet, single with a kid, ect, is a whole different matter, but personally it is not my target. I don't want to touch a "desesperate" woman with a 10" pole. Too complicated.[/QUOTE]Hello, Prosal,
Speaking about desperate women. I once dated a barely 18 years old girl from one of the Ukrainian provinces. She was slender and cute but spoke no English. She wanted me in spite of a 30 years age difference. The reason was that she had a child and wanted a sponsor. I could have had her for a few hundred euros a month. I passed.
I think there is a big difference between a pharmaceutical representative who goes on business trips to Paris, and a secretary, nurse, dentist or adminsitrative asssitant living in Kherson or even Kiev. One already lives among the bright lights and the other leads a dull and hard life and welcomes any chance to escape it.
When I travel to Kiev some of my best paid experiences have been with slightly "older" women, perhaps 30-35, who, despite being paid for the deed, appreciated being some gentle and hard sex with a (still relatively) handsome guy. HOW do I know they were genuine? Well, they performed well beyond the call of duty, cuddling for a while after the sex was over, staying the night, and doing it again in the morning or in the middle of the night, making me breakfast, making the bed, or giving an spontaneous good-bye BJ. I live in eastern Europe and most of my "free" action also comes from this group.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1238494]I don't pretend to be an expert. You and Jake each have 10X the experience I do, but I am surprised to hear that.
Maybe I am working further down the food chain than you are, because this is not my experience.
I am talking about women slightly older, maybe 35+- and maybe below 8 on your scale. I really get the sense they are under-serviced in the dating market.
I have had reasonable success getting dates with these women and probably 50% success rate of sex on first or second date.
Some of these have been in North American cities, where I certainly could not get a date with their North American equivalent.
These women are past the "first blush" of youth and feel it acutely. Sure they are still good looking and stylish. But there is a mass of younger and prettier girls crowding them out of the market. Somewhere between the girls I contact and the ones you contact, the mass of men must stop calling.
As for "easy". Well, that depends on your point of reference. Easy compared to dating and scoring with a North American woman in my situation (middle-aged and married)!
One of the fun features of dating Russian women is that sex is always on the table (well, maybe not literally) , and both parties know that. But it is relatively easy to get into the topic, even in early e-mails and on a date. Not that it is a foregone conclusion, but the woman is under no illusions about how you expect the evening to end, and will be seriously considering that possibility throughout.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Prosal;1237936]Dasha (32yo) and Tatiana (31yo) , last week at a georgian place. Shashliks were to die for. (smilie)[/QUOTE]Ah, Prosal, come on now, please stop it!
You're damaging our morale with all these outstanding conquests. :)
[QUOTE=Prosal;1237936]the other a well-known singer whose I forgot the name[/QUOTE]Not Alla Pugacheva, I hope.
Or on second thoughts, maybe better if it was.
About time you pulled a dud!
[QUOTE=Jake993;1238267]I think that a lot of people who read this forum get the impression that Russian women are easy targets. But they are not. But they are not. And most CERTAINLY not if they are 8. 5+. I agree with you in that they know their relative worth[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Prosal]That said, you are right in a way, they want to be sex objects to be seduced and dominated over and over again. But with the right man. Just to put things in perspective, so that the guys who read this thread don't get wrong. Russian women, MILFs included, are NOT easy targets.[/QUOTE]Another good point, gents.
A number of years back, I had a great night with a real beautiful 40-ish Russian ex-pat back to see her family in St Petersburg.
When we returned to our respective countries, we stayed in contact via e-mail on the possibility we would hook up again some day for another tryst.
The opportunity arose after another 2 years when I made a detour to meet her in her home town when flying back across Europe.
However I arrived jaded, drank a little too much to try and liven myself up and the final straw was when she discovered I'd booked a very average hotel in a dodgy part of town.
She took her leave of me on the street, there and then, leaving me with a chaste night and ample time to reflect on my technique!
Moral of the story: treat these girls like the diamonds they believe themselves to be.
VG
This joke seemed particularly appropriate considering this current thread. I was talking to a friend of mine this morning who reminded me that;
"It's easier to get laid in Moscow that it is to rent a car"
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1238267]Prosal,
In other societies, getting rejected within 60 seconds might make a guy reel and want to re-evaluate his approach, his wardrobe. Whatever. But in Moscow, it's just a signal to move on and try the next one. Because there WILL be a next one.[/QUOTE]That made me smile, so true. I've been rejected numerous times in the FSU and I've never let it get me down for a moment, you just immediately move onto another without a second thought. I think the reason for that in part is because as long as you approach politely, every Russian woman, no matter how hot or high class, will hear you out and give you a chance, a shot at the title so to speak. And then if she is not interested she will let you know with tact. Compare that to the UK where when I'm in a club and walk up to a table of semi attractive girls, due to their own self esteem issues they will often tell you to 'fuck off' before you've opened your mouth! That hurts more because you've been disrespected by a girl who was not even a tenth as hot as the 24 year old hot Lomonosov educated student you were banging last week in Moscow. It's something I've noticed about Russian women; they have a surprisingly lack of ego and chips on their shoulders considering their level of attractiveness. Pope John Paul the second put it down to Soviet cartoons having a great influence on Soviet children. Maybe the BBC / NBC / Canal Plus etc. Should start playing re-runs of Cheburashka and Nu Pogadi.
[QUOTE=Borderland;1243484]I think the reason for that in part is because as long as you approach politely, every Russian woman, no matter how hot or high class, will hear you out and give you a chance, a shot at the title so to speak. And then if she is not interested she will let you know with tact. It's something I've noticed about Russian women; they have a surprisingly lack of ego and chips on their shoulders considering their level of attractiveness. Pope John Paul the second put it down to Soviet cartoons having a great influence on Soviet children. Maybe the BBC / NBC / Canal Plus etc. Should start playing re-runs of Cheburashka and Nu Pogadi.[/QUOTE]BL, I suspect this is because they are still in touch with their own natural selves and haven't been completely feminised like many women in the West.
Once upon a time, women knew how to think for themselves and understood that any approach was to be appreciated and accepted/rejected with decorum.
In fact, it was a validation of their womanhood and attractiveness.
Has to be said men were less boorish then too and knew the signals that meant it was time to move along and not pursue an impossible cause.
Ah, the good old days...
[QUOTE=Gergiev; 1243694]BL, I suspect this is because they are still in touch with their own natural selves and haven't been completely feminised like many women in the West.
Once upon a time, women knew how to think for themselves and understood that any approach was to be appreciated and accepted / rejected with decorum.
In fact, it was a validation of their womanhood and attractiveness.
Has to be said men were less boorish then too and knew the signals that meant it was time to move along and not pursue an impossible cause.
Ah, the good old days.[/QUOTE]Despite this thread is for opinions about Russian women (and I value them). You are all getting too philosophical.
My point it's easy. Who cares about a 200 pound cow in England. We have the best women we could ever want. Open minded. Easy to talk. They can also easily turn you down. What the hell. Let's be honest. This is part of the game and the fun. If we were always succesful. It would be also boring.
We have to laugh about ourselfs and the missed oportunities. The times the girl look at you. And say ¨no thank you¨. We have all suffered it and enjoy it. And most probably the most pleasant thought is when you are screwing a hot girl. And you think at the same time about the comments your post will get.
I love this game.
It's Friday and awfully cold. Let's see what we score this weekend.
Good luck!
Russian Interior Ministry statistics (seconded by UNHCR and some ONG) say that a total of 14, 000 women die annually from domestic violence in Russia, which makes one each 40 minutes.
[url]http://www.allvoices.com/contributed-news/7441370-russia-domestic-violence-against-women-on-the-rise[/url]
No wonder why foreigners are successful in FSU.
I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread or the one called "Dating Russian Women", but here goes.
As many of you know I live in Moscow now for all practical purposes. I keep an apartment, date a few Russian women and consider myself beyond the novice level (but by no means an expert) when dealing with Russian females both on a personal and professional basis.
Recently, one very interesting observation has come to mind. Russian women are extremely pragmatic. OK, I suppose I am not the first one to bring this up, but the other day I came across a sparkling example. I was having drinks with some business associates on a Thursday night when the the subject of extra marital affairs came up. Now, we had all had plenty to drink and one very attractive woman in her late 20's said without any hesitation that she was having an affair with a man (who was also married) and that it was not her first affair since being married from the age of 23.
I decided to inquire a little deeper into the subject and she quite freely explained that while her husband was kind, stable (read a good provider) , a good father to her child (and future children) , and a good husband insofar as he did not beat her and did not come home drunk every night, she was not in love with him and never had been. She went on to say that she chose him 'FOR THIS PURPOSE" of making a family and that love and sexual satisfaction had little to do with it. She found northing wrong with seeking love and sex elsewhere so long as she took steps to be discreet.
She could see that I was intrigued (if not puzzled) by her response and went on further to say that in Russia you don't go seeking the perfect life unless you are an oligarch's daughter. The idea of falling in love, getting married, making a life and having children (in that order) is a bit of a fantasy and if you go into a relationship with this ideal, you will surely be disappointed and live your life in misery. She told me that she and her friends all believe that girls always fall in love with the "wrong man".
In the wake of the Presidential election on Sunday, I am starting to understand why Putin won 64% of the vote. People may not be in love with Vladimir Putin, he is clearly a good provider and a source of stability.
Jake,
Interesting observation.
There is an excellent book out there called "The Whisperers: Private Life in Stalin's Russia" by Orlando Fidges. In it, there is an insight into why Russian women still today marry and have "affairs" as we know them. First and foremost the young women from that period looked for an older man because he could usually offer them more than a younger man could. He was set in life, offer a bigger apartment, car, more rations etc. While these men may not have been exciting, they were stable, good providers and offered a future. Did they always scratch that itch between the legs? No, so the younger men sometimes filled that role, or other older men who may have been able to offer them short term benefits. Conversely, those who married a young man and lived five to a 10m2 apartment would see her short term affairs as being with an older man to get some advantages.
I've experienced that same thing. Not only in my sponsorships but in everyday life. I have been surprised by some of the offers I have received (well, in the early days anyway) and until I read about it in the book I had never really understood it.
So, how was she? .
[QUOTE=Dogger862; 1255034]Jake,
Interesting observation.
There is an excellent book out there called "The Whisperers: Private Life in Stalin's Russia" by Orlando Fidges. So, how was she? .[/QUOTE]I have heard of that book and have meant to read it. I have read,"A People's Tragedy" also by Fidges, and really enjoyed his writing style. BTW. Did yo know that "The Whisperers" is banned in Russia?
Not to put too fine a point in it, she was (is) spectacular. I am in my 50's and THIS is where it's at. Forget the hookers, forget the single girls. These married girls KNOW what they want. They KNOW why they are doing it. No drama, no games. They don't want to go to the clubs, they don't want to go to fancy restaurants, and they don't want money. They just want to come to your place, get some attention and fuck. You have great sex for several hours after work and then at about 23:00, they have to go home! So you walk them to the metro like a gentleman and head to the bar!
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1255012]I'm not sure if this belongs in this thread or the one called "Dating Russian Women", but here goes.
As many of you know I live in Moscow now for all practical purposes. I keep an apartment, date a few Russian women and consider myself beyond the novice level (but by no means an expert) when dealing with Russian females both on a personal and professional basis.
Recently, one very interesting observation has come to mind. Russian women are extremely pragmatic. OK, I suppose I am not the first one to bring this up, but the other day I came across a sparkling example. I was having drinks with some business associates on a Thursday night when the the subject of extra marital affairs came up. Now, we had all had plenty to drink and one very attractive woman in her late 20's said without any hesitation that she was having an affair with a man (who was also married) and that it was not her first affair since being married from the age of 23.
I decided to inquire a little deeper into the subject and she quite freely explained that while her husband was kind, stable (read a good provider) , a good father to her child (and future children) , and a good husband insofar as he did not beat her and did not come home drunk every night, she was not in love with him and never had been. She went on to say that she chose him 'FOR THIS PURPOSE" of making a family and that love and sexual satisfaction had little to do with it. She found northing wrong with seeking love and sex elsewhere so long as she took steps to be discreet.
She could see that I was intrigued (if not puzzled) by her response and went on further to say that in Russia you don't go seeking the perfect life unless you are an oligarch's daughter. The idea of falling in love, getting married, making a life and having children (in that order) is a bit of a fantasy and if you go into a relationship with this ideal, you will surely be disappointed and live your life in misery. She told me that she and her friends all believe that girls always fall in love with the "wrong man".
In the wake of the Presidential election on Sunday, I am starting to understand why Putin won 64% of the vote. People may not be in love with Vladimir Putin, he is clearly a good provider and a source of stability.[/QUOTE]Jake,
Thanks for this enlightment on Russian women psyche. Interesting indeed. But don't you think that what is rather unique is that they can mix pragmatism with an enormous potential of emotion and passion? . My experience is that in every Russian woman there is a Anna Karenine or a Natasha Rostova, and that there is a deep-seated belief, typically Russian, for fate and tragedy, which make them the most passionate and emotional creatures on the planet (and wonderful lovers). This per example doesn't exist in Asian women, who are usually very very pragmatic, but also totally cold-hearted and unpassionate.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1255357].But don't you think that what is rather unique is that they can mix pragmatism with an enormous potential of emotion and passion?[/QUOTE]I could not agree with you more. Taking it one step further, I believe that Russian women can find it possible to be IN LOVE with a man who is not her husband and carry on a quasi affair for years while remaining married to another man. This ability to "compartmentalize" different aspects of their lives is astonishing. And in keeping with the spirit of International Women's Day, I would like to congratulate ALL women out there and wish you peace and happiness.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1255012]In the wake of the Presidential election on Sunday, I am starting to understand why Putin won 64% of the vote. People may not be in love with Vladimir Putin, he is clearly a good provider and a source of stability.[/QUOTE]
Leaving the, erm, 64% (no laughing at the back, please) out of it, a better summation than all the thousands of other words in various articles I've read in the last few days!
[QUOTE=Jake993]
Did yo know that "The Whisperers" is banned in Russia? .[/QUOTE]
Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat???
For real???
[QUOTE=Jake993]
So, how was she?
Not to put too fine a point in it, she was (is) spectacular.[/QUOTE]
I must be slowing up, Jake, as I hadn't taken it for granted from your report that you moved in for 'Coup de Grace'??? :)
[QUOTE=Gergiev;1255953]I must be slowing up, Jake, as I hadn't taken it for granted from your report that you moved in for 'Coup de Grace'??? :)[/QUOTE]I just assumed after a conversation like that, a seasoned professional like Jake wouldn't let that past him without having a go. And I'm glad to hear she was worth it!
I've been the married route a few times (one memorable one was the mother / daughter combo of '07) but always paid for the service. Never really followed the freebie trail. We have plenty in the office who would fall into this pool of potential. Might be worth exploring. I'm short of a couple of sponsorettes from the doghouse, might look at this to fill the gap?
Cheers.
Dog
[QUOTE=Dogger862; 1256038]I just assumed after a conversation like that, a seasoned professional like Jake wouldn't let that past him without having a go. And I'm glad to hear she was worth it!
I've been the married route a few times (one memorable one was the mother / daughter combo of '07) but always paid for the service. Never really followed the freebie trail. We have plenty in the office who would fall into this pool of potential. Might be worth exploring. I'm short of a couple of sponsorettes from the doghouse, might look at this to fill the gap?
Cheers.
Dog[/QUOTE]You guys are giving me too much credit this time. She was quite aggressive and made it quite clear that she wanted sex. She was and still is worth it. But there's a downside too. She's got her own life and her own schedule. I can't just call her whenever I feel like it and ask her to come over for a "roll in the hay". But it's certainly worth exploring as an alternative source of talent.
i was in piter for the last five days. i sticked to freebie scene in rossi club. unfortunately i have to admit that had no score but two balls hit the goal post.
one was a a bit fat blonde. she was drunk and she was pushing me for a moment and hugging and giving me a kiss another point. you should see that. she was telling me go and pulling me with her hands for a dance.
another was a woman with a daughter and good carreer named olga. i left her home with taxi and she wanted to meet me in hermitage museum tomorrow. unfortunately i had to get back tomorrow so i couldn't accept her offer.
except these two, i get thousands of "no!","i am sorry" and push with hands. something i am very curious about is these close friends. i really don't understand them. you talk to a girl. she looks ok with this and suddenly in a second her close friends come and grabs her and bring to a far corner and tell me "sorry we have to go!"i really don't understand this and feel very angry with it. is this a protection for her or what? yeah but she can go easily if she doesn't want to talk or is this a jealous behaviour or what? look at the third night on this post.
[url]http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?770-moscow&p=1193955&viewfull=1#post1193955[/url]
and the second thing that i want to understand is they are ok with foreign guys or they always prefer to be with a russian man? because when i was there many russian guys had gf's easily. i am 33 years old and fat. moreover i can't speak russian. maybe it's the reason but i am really confused about it. yes a russian guy will be more stable more hopefull for a ltr but when i was talking to olga she told me she wouldn't be with a russian guy because of level (she shows her head with a finger and make a circle. she works in a italian company btw.) and then why i get these so much no? anyway at the end of night she didn't accept my offer to come to my house and didn't deceived my other games in the taxi (can i come to your apartment? please i really drink too much beer! i must [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] asap!)
finally i discovered maybe i am using the wrong methods to approach and probably many foreing guys making the same mistake. go directly touch her and try to kiss on dance floor. they don't like it. maybe a true aprroachment strategy must be something like that;
1) smile her on dance floor.
2) do some remarkable dance figures and smile her again.
3) say something to her ear. (priviet, kak vaz zavut? do you speak english?)
4) if she is ok with it. get closer and dance with her together during a song and don't forget to keep smiling and to look happy with it.
5) ask for a drink. they usually don't refuse for a drink and if she is a * she takes the drink and go talk with other guys.
6) when you are having the drink, talk to her as much as possible. talk about her preferrations of food, music, life. you like here so much and another important point; you are really here in this club for the first time."my hotel or apartment is very close to here. normally i don't come such places."
7) if everything goes fine, ask for a second drink. talk more sincerely. (again a very important point. pay attention for close friends. be in a good relationship with them but not too much! they shouldn't think that you are hanging on both of (or three of) them. in this short time period they should visit her for a few times to check everything fine or just give her bag because she will go toilet. (of course they are checking if everything fine or very curious about what kind of a man is this that my friend talk to)
8) get closer. touch her. say something directly to her ear. ask for dancing again. try to touch and hug and kiss as much as possible on that second dance. get back to bar. drink one more. if you can make her drunk you will have three times more luck for a happy end in your hotel. touch her, hug her, get closer. leave the stupid chat about what is your favourite color, how much you like russian cuisine or how cold is your country bullsheet. now it's time to get closer and closer.
9) tell her you want to be sure that she arrive home safely so you want to leave her home or ask for just a coffee in your room. if you are on first option try i need to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord134][CodeWord134][/url] tactic or other thing. if you are on second option you did it. congratulations!
i am open for your furher discussions or advices. i am just a few times in russian clubs. just wanted to share my experinces with newbies.
ciao.
or even for forgiveness!
This is from a thread on the Kiev board, but I thought it had more general application to all EE women, and in fact to women almost anywhere. Including the West / USA.
[Quote=Gentleman Travel]The (too few) times I have been bold have led to my greatest successes with Ukrainian & Russian women and EE women living in the West.
The times I have acted like I was dealing with western women, I have had to struggle to succeed.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Barba; 1263107]I was once upon a time also just a western guy doing it the western way, but realized that command is a better way to go with most women (also in the west and also after 10 years of relation). No experience in Ukraine yet, but the "don't ask, just do" principle works everywhere. Photos, anal sex, videos, gagging, just do it without asking for f*cking permission always. She can say NO easily so why put her in the awkward position of saying YES to something that will clearly make her look like the first class cum sl*t she might be?
Barba[/QUOTE]I think this is excellent advice, especially for EE women, but probably for almost any women.
We have been conditioned to be timid and to seek "permission" at every step of a relationship / make-out session and this is bad for everyone.
Bad for us, because it denies us the pleasures we desire, plus the dominance we yearn for.
Bad for her, because it puts her in the position Barba describes, of having to say YES to our dirty-minded suggestions, when she can simply acquiesce and have the pleasure of being a sex toy without having the embarrassment of admitting she wants to be.
Bad for the relationship, because fundamentally women want to be dominated and are disappointed by our hesitation to be "real men".
I have found this in my relationships with EE women and I have found this with my relationship with my wife, which got a lot better after I refused to accept excuses from her and demanded regular sex, which made both of us a lot happier.
I realize that I have still been reluctant to force a more aggressive sexual agenda (different positions, more oral) on her, instead trying to get her to talk about new things. Like marriage counselors tell you to.
That is a dead-end, she is never going to want to talk about blow jobs or being tied up, if I want it, I will just have to keep pushing until she says NO (with meaning).
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1265022]or even for forgiveness!
This is from a thread on the Kiev board, but I thought it had more general application to all EE women, and in fact to women almost anywhere. Including the West / USA.
I think this is excellent advice, especially for EE women, but probably for almost any women.
We have been conditioned to be timid and to seek "permission" at every step of a relationship / make-out session and this is bad for everyone.
Bad for us, because it denies us the pleasures we desire, plus the dominance we yearn for.
Bad for her, because it puts her in the position Barba describes, of having to say YES to our dirty-minded suggestions, when she can simply acquiesce and have the pleasure of being a sex toy without having the embarrassment of admitting she wants to be.
Bad for the relationship, because fundamentally women want to be dominated and are disappointed by our hesitation to be "real men".
I have found this in my relationships with EE women and I have found this with my relationship with my wife, which got a lot better after I refused to accept excuses from her and demanded regular sex, which made both of us a lot happier.
I realize that I have still been reluctant to force a more aggressive sexual agenda (different positions, more oral) on her, instead trying to get her to talk about new things. Like marriage counselors tell you to.
That is a dead-end, she is never going to want to talk about blow jobs or being tied up, if I want it, I will just have to keep pushing until she says NO (with meaning).[/QUOTE]We all know that with Russian women, one has to be manly, forward, direct and uncompromising. BUT you need combining it with humour, intelligence, empahty, respect, sentimentality and sensitivity. Being solely rude and oafish will lead you nowhere. I find Barba statements about photos and videos a pretty ugly behavior. When a girl understands that you don't respect her, she'll give you no respect either.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1265022].
I have found this in my relationships with EE women and I have found this with my relationship with my wife, which got a lot better after I refused to accept excuses from her and demanded regular sex, which made both of us a lot happier.[/QUOTE]I agree. Being a little pushy with the pretty lady can eventually pay off in a big way.
I was involved in a steady relationship with an attractive woman. At first our sex life was okay. But it went downhill, and we weren't having as much sex as I wanted to. So I decided to take this matter literally into my hands. When she was stepping over me to get on the other side of the bed, I grabbed her pussy through her panties and gave it a good rub. It was an opportunity I couldn't resist, because her legs were spread wide apart. She didn't say anything in response and just lay down on the bed with her back towards me. Without thinking twice, I quickly reached between her legs, plunged my hand inside her panties, spread her pussy-lips, found her clitoris and started masturbating it a little using her own pussy-lips. Then all of a sudden I heard a loud slap and felt pain on my pussy-hand. Apparently, my pretty lady slapped my hand real hard as a way of saying a big 'No! ' to me.
I didn't know she could be so strong. Her slap on my hand was painful indeed, and quickly remove my hand from her pussy I certainly did. I was upset about it of course. And the next morning I was ready to leave her. But she took my hand and rubbed it on her tits and on her pussy. And such persuasion from her I couldn't resist. I grabbed her pussy through her pants. She spread her legs to let me feel her pussy. And I proceeded to massage her pussy right through her pants with a firm hand, until she shuddered in what looked to me like a reasonable orgasm.
After this, she let me massage and masturbate her pussy, whenever I felt like it. And I took advantage of her good will to create a sexual habit for her. I bought plenty of lube and set up a masturbation program for her, where I would masturbate her pussy to orgasm every day at exactly the same time of the day. I even set an alarm clock to make sure I started massaging and masturbating her pussy at exactly the same time of the day, every day. She got so used to having orgasm at this time of the day that after a while I didn't need my alarm clock anymore. She started to remind me gently it was that time of the day for her.
In psychology, this kind of habituation is called temporal conditioning. Basically, her body got used to being sexually aroused at the same time of the day every day. And because of this, her sexual arousal began to happen automatically, just because it was that time of the day.
Our relationship improved a lot as a result of such daily pleasure for her. Whenever we would have a disagreement and she would get angry at me, I would do whatever was necessary to resolve our disagreement quickly. And then I would grab her pussy and masturbate her to orgasm right through her clothing to seal our peace deal. After a while she even started to joke about it. First, she would point to her pussy and say to me that this is my wife. And then she would point to my right hand and say that this is her husband.
[QUOTE=PeterTheGreat; 1234895]Gentlemen:
I have a friend. Mid 50's. Just got put on disability a year ago because of an accident at work. Approximately 10 years ago he goes to Russian and meets "the love of his life" at a romance social. 1st mistake. The letter's flow and he goes back and sees her and files for a Fiancee Visa with immigration and brings her and her teenage son and daughter to "the land of the big PX".2nd mistake. He is from Wyoming and has no education except a GED. Has a good union job and makes a 110K per year. She doesn't like Wyoming (she is from Kingissep) and talks him into giving up his seniority and moving to the Pacific Northwest. Well, her being a city girl she wants the best house, car, money. 2K purses. The list goes on an on. Fast forward 9 years. He's injured and placed on disibility and she now has a green card, good job, and her kids have been educated compliments of his 401K. On top of that he got her son out of being drafted into the Russian army. She decides that she doesn't want him around all the time and says she wants out. THEN the credit card bills arrive to the tune of 57K. He get's hung for all of it and has to declare bankruptcy. The house is stripped of the leather couches and all the goodies when he come home to a restraining order. He has to pay income tax on the 401K loans and is virtually BROKE. And disabled with no job. When you meet these girls BEWARE! They are no different than the ladies here in the US. Sometimes worse and the legal system protects them to no end from the "sex-maniac" Americans. Trust me gents the word is out over there on how to clean someone out and leave. P4P for ever![/QUOTE]Perhaps the lady this guy married wasn't a P4P lady. She was just an average woman from Russia with unrealistic expectations in USA.
I've known a couple other guys who married Russian women. These women probably never worked P4P, and their sexual attitude sucked. Their guys these ladies labeled as sex maniacs, when they found the guys' porn stashes. And of course, these guys didn't get to have much sex with their Russian wives, even the most simple sex in the missionary position.
I'd say that if you are going to marry a Russian woman, then marry a P4P lady, who has decided to retire. Because you probably will have a lot better understanding with her than you will have with a woman, whom you meet through a dating agency.
[QUOTE=Dan7373;1268771]I'd say that if you are going to marry a Russian woman, then marry a P4P lady, who has decided to retire. Because you probably will have a lot better understanding with her than you will have with a woman, whom you meet through a dating agency.[/QUOTE]This is total BS nonsense. I have never met a Russian woman that wasn't a freak in bed. They are into the hard-core, long and passionate no holds barred sex. They like it rough and dirty. They are sexual bombs. All of them.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1268887]This is total BS nonsense. I have never met a Russian woman that wasn't a freak in bed. They are into the hard-core, long and passionate no holds barred sex. They like it rough and dirty. They are sexual bombs. All of them.[/QUOTE]It sounds like you've met only P4P Russian ladies and not normal people off the street.
If you go to bars and look for ladies to sleep with, then you will probably find them. But they aren't necessarily representative of the general population.
The Russian women I've known were religious women, whose anti-sex attitude was a part of their religious beliefs. And women like this you might meet and become friends with through non-P4P dating websites and places.
And if you think that a religious woman won't take advantage of you financially, then you are wrong. Because if she thinks that you are a sinner, then this justifies in her mind her punishing you financially during divorce and separation.
[QUOTE=Dan7373; 1269403]It sounds like you've met only P4P Russian ladies and not normal people off the street.
If you go to bars and look for ladies to sleep with, then you will probably find them. But they aren't necessarily representative of the general population.
The Russian women I've known were religious women, whose anti-sex attitude was a part of their religious beliefs. And women like this you might meet and become friends with through non-P4P dating websites and places.
And if you think that a religious woman won't take advantage of you financially, then you are wrong. Because if she thinks that you are a sinner, then this justifies in her mind her punishing you financially during divorce and separation.[/QUOTE]You're talking about something you don't know shit about, as after a quick search on your post historic, it seems that you have never been nor in Russia nor in any FSU country.
Man, you are really full of shit.
Don't know why I even bother to answer to such raving nonsense.
[QUOTE=Dan7373;1269403]The Russian women I've known were religious women, whose anti-sex attitude was a part of their religious beliefs. And women like this you might meet and become friends with through non-P4P dating websites and places.[/QUOTE]I have never crossed an anti-sex attitude among Russians. To be honest, the real sex demons can be found in the church.
[QUOTE=Dan7373;1269403]The Russian women I've known were religious women, whose anti-sex attitude was a part of their religious beliefs.[/QUOTE]WTF?
Russian women have no problem reconciling their religious beliefs with their sexual desires. Forget about the strip clubs, the night clubs, the bars and watering holes. Probably one of the most lucrative hunting grounds for mongers are the Russian churches.
Today is Easter in Russia, and the churches are full of gorgeous babes, their heads bowed low, covered with scarves, asking forgiveness for their sins. After the services, their religious passion can easily be turned into another kind of passion.
Wondering where all the Aurora and Penthouse girls disappeared to today? That's where you guys should be!
As they say in Russia," There can be no confession, without sin!"
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1269583]As they say in Russia," There can be no confession, without sin!"[/QUOTE]Amen brother. Last night about 22:00 there were about 300 gorgeous babes in White Square observing an Easter multi-media presentation on the wall of the old white church. Funnily enough, when the presentation was over they all took off their headscarves piled into the local bars.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1269583]WTF?
Russian women have no problem reconciling their religious beliefs with their sexual desires. Forget about the strip clubs, the night clubs, the bars and watering holes. Probably one of the most lucrative hunting grounds for mongers are the Russian churches.
Today is Easter in Russia, and the churches are full of gorgeous babes, their heads bowed low, covered with scarves, asking forgiveness for their sins. After the services, their religious passion can easily be turned into another kind of passion.
Wondering where all the Aurora and Penthouse girls disappeared to today? That's where you guys should be!
As they say in Russia," There can be no confession, without sin!"[/QUOTE]My views are based on my experience with Russian women and not on logical reasoning. What seems logical quite often isn't true, because some of your assumptions often are wrong. That's why science based on evidence and not philosophical reasoning is the way to know what's true and what's not true.
There are many non-religious people who pretend to be religious during Easter and during Christmas. And they of course behave like atheists in their lives. But there are also Orthodox nuns who never drink at bars or sleep with guys. And of course, there are many religious women who aren't nuns, but they behave somewhat like nuns, because this is their ideal model of behavior, even when they are married. Marriage for them is to have children and not for sexual entertainment.
In any country, there is a diversity of people. Not everybody is the same. Only those who are ignorant about the country say that everybody is the same. They stereotype the whole people due to their limited experience with the people there.
[QUOTE=Dan7373;1269824]My views are based on my experience with Russian women and not on logical reasoning.[/QUOTE]So are mine.
[QUOTE]What seems logical quite often isn't true, because some of your assumptions often are wrong.[/QUOTE]I agree, absolutely.
[QUOTE]That's why science based on evidence and not philosophical reasoning is the way to know what's true and what's not true.[/QUOTE]You're absolutely right.
[QUOTE]In any country, there is a diversity of people. Not everybody is the same. Only those who are ignorant about the country say that everybody is the same. They stereotype the whole people due to their limited experience with the people there.[/QUOTE]I couldn't agree with you more. You have described your position very well.
Can we stop this silliness now? You're using up valuable bandwidth.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1269867]Can we stop this silliness now? You're using up valuable bandwidth.[/QUOTE]This thread is for opinions and advice about Russian women. But not everybody's advice and opinion is equally good to follow. It's important to get at the truth, especially when opinions contradict each other.
I think in every relatively free society, including Russia, people range from sexually conservative to sexually liberated in their behavior. And some people are unstable in their behavior. They keep swinging back and forth between conservative and liberated sexual behavior. And these undecided people are the ones you need to be very careful with. Because you may marry a Russian woman who seems to be sexually liberated, but then a couple years later she may decide to get religious and start behaving almost like a nun with you.
This kind of thing does happen. I've seen it happen. And that's why you need to look at how stable the woman's beliefs and behavior are, even if she seems to be sexually liberated now.
[QUOTE=Dan7373;1270017]Because you may marry a Russian woman who seems to be sexually liberated, but then a couple years later she may decide to get religious and start behaving almost like a nun with you.[/QUOTE]Sounds like you've had some very specific experiences with [b]a[/b] Russian woman. Why don't you tell us about it?
I mean, other then jerking off your girlfriend on cue.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1255357]. Russian women psyche. Interesting indeed. But don't you think that what is rather unique is that they can mix pragmatism with an enormous potential of emotion and passion? . My experience is that in every Russian woman there is a Anna Karenine or a Natasha Rostova, and that there is a deep-seated belief, typically Russian, for fate and tragedy, which make them the most passionate and emotional creatures on the planet (and wonderful lovers). This per example doesn't exist in Asian women, who are usually very very pragmatic, but also totally cold-hearted and unpassionate.[/QUOTE]Hello Prosal, what about a dinner again in Deda?
My recent experience with A FSU woman. First year she was romantic like Ana Karenina. Fantastic sex, no holds barred. Second year she became cold, and calculating. It seems like the romance never existed.
In opposition, the passion of Brazilian women seems to be longer lived. After breakup either they still love you for life. Or they hate you. And could kill you (I am serious).
I romanced seriously with 3 FSU women and 3 Brazilian women. My first conclusion based on this limited data is that FSU women can be romantic, but intellect and calculation always dominate. With Brazilian women it seems to be exactly the contrary.
Now I am dating a Turkish girl. She only speaks Turkish and I don't. We communicate through Google translator on the iPhone. I'll report on this board.
By the way. After a few years of mongering, I fucked the most beautiful women on the planet, and I have lost interest in it. What I am looking for now is affairs and real passion. There is nothing like sex with a woman that truly desires you, whose sex is dripping wet when you touch her and that you can screw bareback and train to your desires.
Do you guys know of a useful forum for guys like me?
Best regards to all.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy;1270320]By the way. After a few years of mongering, I fucked the most beautiful women on the planet, and I have lost interest in it. What I am looking for now is affairs and real passion. There is nothing like sex with a woman that truly desires you, whose sex is dripping wet when you touch her and that you can screw bareback and train to your desires.[/QUOTE]Wow, after 525 posts on ISG, you came to that conclusion.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy;1270320]Do you guys know of a useful forum for guys like me?[/QUOTE]Yeah. ISG
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy; 1270320]Hello Prosal, what about a dinner again in Deda?
By the way. After a few years of mongering, I fucked the most beautiful women on the planet, and I have lost interest in it. What I am looking for now is affairs and real passion. There is nothing like sex with a woman that truly desires you, whose sex is dripping wet when you touch her and that you can screw bareback and train to your desires.[/QUOTE]Hey BB, what's up? Deda is unfortunatly closed now. Let's organize something by sms. Anyhow, I understand you, sex with a pro or a sponsorette isn't the same as having a girl who is in your bed because she REALLY wants to and not because you pay her or because she sees some financial benefit to do so.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow; 1270340]Wow, after 525 posts on ISG, you came to that conclusion.
Yeah. ISG[/QUOTE]Wow. 162 posts, but the added-value of your last one was below zero.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy; 1270320]Hello Prosal, what about a dinner again in Deda?
Now I am dating a Turkish girl. She only speaks Turkish and I don't. We communicate through Google translator on the iPhone. I'll report on this board.
By the way. After a few years of mongering, I fucked the most beautiful women on the planet, and I have lost interest in it. What I am looking for now is affairs and real passion. There is nothing like sex with a woman that truly desires you, whose sex is dripping wet when you touch her and that you can screw bareback and train to your desires.
Do you guys know of a useful forum for guys like me?
Best regards to all.[/QUOTE]Is this the girl you are with now? A while ago after getting divorced and 250+ different P4P women, I also fell in love with a women I met in Prague, she was Croatian though. She was the most incredible thing that happened.
I am not sure it was entirely her or something I had built up in my head. This mongering thing can be a lot of fun, but sometimes you feel like something is missing and if a woman shows you real love, it is amazing.
Does that mean she is perfect, far from it, but there is such a thing as real love. The problem with being with so many women is that your standards become very very very high and you can no longer settle for the ordinary.
Go for it and Good Luck to you man.
[QUOTE=Delta Indigo;1270390]This mongering thing can be a lot of fun, but sometimes you feel like something is missing and if a woman shows you real love, it is amazing.[/QUOTE]It is my impression that almost all of the senior members that contribute to the EE threads are looking for something beyond straight P4P. This forum is not only a guide of how to find prostitutes, it is also a guide of how to find women. Sooner or later, the empty feelings of consistent prostitute use will catch up with most mongers unless they can balance it with some real relationships.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1270283]Sounds like you've had some very specific experiences with [b]a[/b] Russian woman. Why don't you tell us about it?[/QUOTE]My experience has been mostly non-sexual with many Russian women and not just one. That's why I know the non-sexual part of Russian women so well.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1270405]It is my impression that almost all of the senior members that contribute to the EE threads are looking for something beyond straight P4P. This forum is not only a guide of how to find prostitutes, it is also a guide of how to find women. Sooner or later, the empty feelings of consistent prostitute use will catch up with most mongers unless they can balance it with some real relationships.[/QUOTE]I've met a number of guys who married so called prostitutes in Thailand. Of course, these women retired from prostitution, when they got married. Some of them I've known for years, and they seem to be happy in their marriages.
If you like sleeping with prostitutes, then don't marry a woman who hasn't been one. Because you will likely end up being very disappointed in the sexual part of your marriage.
A good thing to remember is that it takes two to have sex. And if you are having sex with prostitutes, then you are no better than they are. They are in fact the kind of women you have the most common with. And if you try to marry some other type of a woman, then you will likely end up with serious marriage problems. Because other types of women won't be what you are used to or have much experience with. Their attitudes would be different, too different for you.
[QUOTE=Dan7373; 1270586]I've met a number of guys who married so called prostitutes in Thailand. Of course, these women retired from prostitution, when they got married. Some of them I've known for years, and they seem to be happy in their marriages.
If you like sleeping with prostitutes, then don't marry a woman who hasn't been one. Because you will likely end up being very disappointed in the sexual part of your marriage.
A good thing to remember is that it takes two to have sex. And if you are having sex with prostitutes, then you are no better than they are. They are in fact the kind of women you have the most common with. And if you try to marry some other type of a woman, then you will likely end up with serious marriage problems. Because other types of women won't be what you are used to or have much experience with. Their attitudes would be different, too different for you.[/QUOTE]What are you talking about? I don't date prostitutes, let alone want to marry them. Dating regular girls and using a prostitute are two things I never mix. You are posting some really annoying reports. This is the last time that I reply to your posts and I hope the other members follow.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1270600]This is the last time that I reply to your posts and I hope the other members follow.[/QUOTE]His posts are pure BS nonsense, I've put him on ignore list.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1270600]What are you talking about? I don't date prostitutes, let alone want to marry them. Dating regular girls and using a prostitute are two things I never mix. You are posting some really annoying reports. This is the last time that I reply to your posts and I hope the other members follow.[/QUOTE]I said "If you like sleeping with prostitutes". Which means that my advice doesn't apply to you, if you don't like sleeping with prostitutes.
As for getting annoyed about straight and honest talk about sexual matters, perhaps you are in a wrong forum. Because the title of this forum is InternationalSexGuide. This forum is for open and honest talk about sex and sexual relationships.
[QUOTE=Dan7373;1270581]My experience has been mostly non-sexual with many Russian women and not just one. That's why I know the non-sexual part of Russian women so well.[/QUOTE]OK, I get it. You're a priest! (smile)
Seriously, I think you are confused. I hate to rain on your parade but the ISG is not a forum for,"open and honest talk about sex and sexual relationships". The ISG is a place where men can exchange information about where to meet women for sex. That's not my interpretation, those words come straight from the lips of El Jefe himself.
If you're looking to get all touchy-feely about sex-[i]uality[/i], you might try the Women's Studies program at U. C. Berkeley. Otherwise, it seems that you really have nothing to offer this forum.
BTW. Just exactly which part of the Russian female is the non-sexual part?
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1270678]BTW. Just exactly which part of the Russian female is the non-sexual part?[/QUOTE]Um, the corpse? :D
TT
Day one: I meet this Russian diev on the internet site. She writes to me first and seem very keen.
We talk on skype and she writes to me as we talk about traveling "maybe we can meet some place, for me its eases coming to turkey since I don't need visa"
After more talking we will spend weekend together in Kiev to start with. I think to my self great. Young, blond and model looking girl. I can't ask for more. She is children psychologist BTW.
Day two: We talk again on skype now with video call. She looks even better then her pictures that she her self ask me if I would like she send.
Now we having great conversation. And talking that after Kiev meeting we could go some warmer place for a week or two. And after a while her mother entrance her rom. And she say "this is my mom and she says hi to you" Same story same evening with her father after he comes home from work.
And now I am confused. I meet her not on dating or marriage site! I met her on travel site. WTF is going on here?
She even send me picture in under where without me even mentioning one thing and is telling me she is shy and last bf she was staying with for a year they did not had sex.
Her parents in this story, under-where pictures and talk about being shy confuses me. She gives me impression about wanting a cute guy to take here away some place.
Can you guys give me logical explanation for this, what should I expect here? Since I don't see any logics.
P. S I am sure her parents are normal mother dentist and father tax police ex military.
[QUOTE=Tomux 22;1271013]Her parents in this story, under-where pictures and talk about being shy confuses me. Can you guys give me logical explanation for this, what should I expect here? Since I don't see any logics.[/QUOTE]From what I can decipher from your description, she is your typical honest, emotionally generous AND naughty Russian girl. Keep in mind that many don't look at relationships in a logical or conniving fashion, they tend to follow their childishly naive instinct. She feels at ease with you, and is honest about herself. Nothing wrong with that. (smilie)
Tomux,
Where, in Russia, does she live?
[QUOTE=Tomux 22;1271013]Day one: I meet this Russian diev on the internet site. She writes to me first and seem very keen.[/QUOTE]I'd say that if the situation looks too good to be true, then it probably isn't true. It's a set up to take advantage of you.
But of course, there is no way for you to know for sure now, if this situation is true or not. That's why set ups work on so many people.
You can go along with her and see where she leads you. But I suspect that she will try to get some money out of you, like money for travel to Turkey. And after she gets your money, then that might be the last you'll hear from her.
[QUOTE=Tomux 22; 1271013]Day one: I meet this Russian diev on the internet site. She writes to me first and seem very keen.
We talk on skype and she writes to me as we talk about traveling "maybe we can meet some place, for me its eases coming to turkey since I don't need visa"
After more talking we will spend weekend together in Kiev to start with. I think to my self great. Young, blond and model looking girl. I can't ask for more. She is children psychologist BTW.
Day two: We talk again on skype now with video call. She looks even better then her pictures that she her self ask me if I would like she send.
Now we having great conversation. And talking that after Kiev meeting we could go some warmer place for a week or two. And after a while her mother entrance her rom. And she say "this is my mom and she says hi to you" Same story same evening with her father after he comes home from work.
And now I am confused. I meet her not on dating or marriage site! I met her on travel site. WTF is going on here?
She even send me picture in under where without me even mentioning one thing and is telling me she is shy and last bf she was staying with for a year they did not had sex.
Her parents in this story, under-where pictures and talk about being shy confuses me. She gives me impression about wanting a cute guy to take here away some place.
Can you guys give me logical explanation for this, what should I expect here? Since I don't see any logics.
P. S I am sure her parents are normal mother dentist and father tax police ex military.[/QUOTE]Look, it is good you are suspicious and aware.
But on the other hand she could be the real deal, unlike our friend Dan, everyone else, me including, really rate the passion of Russian girls.
They are some of the sexiest creatures alive and something who does not think so has to be asexual at the very least.
I fell in love with the wrong girl once, but I was alert and all I suffered was a broken heart.
Just guard your finances and career and health and all you can suffer is a broken heart, big deal.
It is better to try, if she is pretty and wants to get your attention, give it a go, at least you will get some great sex out of it.
When I suffered my broken heart, I had some great sex with a girl who looked like a super model before hand.
She was 6 feet tall, slender, blond and blue eyed.
I suggest you try to visit her in Moscow or Kiev, so if she does not work out, you will still have fun. At least some major city.
Keep your head and senses, and go for it.
[QUOTE=Delta Indigo;1271097]Look, it is good you are suspicious and aware.[/QUOTE]I personaly value indulgence over suspicion. Anyway intuition is the monger's best weapon. Every "skilled" monger should be able to say within 30 seconds which girl is a greedy piranha and which is a genuine freebie with no materialistic expectations. Many guys fail miserably at that though.
Stravinsky. She comes from the second biggest city in Ukraine but her parents is Russian.
So I did book flights and hotel today. Going to Kiev with her from 4th-7th of May. Will report how this story ends.
The vets of this site know the "real" and while this forum is for finding women for sex, nobody said those encounters don't turn into relationships. Nor is the only subject here screwing P4P women.
Actually this forum runs the whole gambit from pure sexual relationships with prostitutes, to hooking up with the clerk at the local clothing shop, marrying that girl and having kids.
Though its not often discussed here, it does come up from time to time.
I find information here much more accurate and up-to-date than other sites that talk about for instance marrying Russian women from Western Men mostly with limited social skills, limited time off, usually both.
There those men often dream about model types, here through various means we date those women!
I personally am looking for a LTR but I don't have an out of order sign on my dick. I am just very selective with who I pay and who I don't pay.
Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1271109]I personaly value indulgence over suspicion. Anyway intuition is the monger's best weapon. Every "skilled" monger should be able to say within 30 seconds which girl is a greedy piranha and which is a genuine freebie with no materialistic expectations. Many guys fail miserably at that though.[/QUOTE]I consider myself a pretty clever guy, but I do not always succeed in this endeavour. I am pretty good at picking the right p4p girls in an FKK and so forth, but can not always tell genuine freebies who care for you apart from parasites. I usually can but not always and am always a little suspicious.
What signals do you look for and how do you differentiate? Please let us know.
[QUOTE=Delta Indigo; 1271729]I consider myself a pretty clever guy, but I do not always succeed in this endeavour. I am pretty good at picking the right p4p girls in an FKK and so forth, but can not always tell genuine freebies who care for you apart from parasites. I usually can but not always and am always a little suspicious.
What signals do you look for and how do you differentiate? Please let us know.[/QUOTE]I simply avoid the "glamurnoe kiso" type (smilie)
[url]http://lurkmore.to/%D0%93%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%BC%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE[/url]
(funny page, worth a google translation)
I am "relationship building" through my fav dating site with a 27 yo girl from Moscow. 8+ in looks, working as a presenter on a TV channel. What strikes is that a girl of such a social level needs to put a profile on a "east meets west" dating site to find eligible men (that said, after being harassed on the site by dozens of silly sex-weaned turk and italian guys, she has quickly deleted her profile, so now we communicate via FB or sms).
This confirm the fact that there is thousands over thousands fine and genuine Russian women of high social and cultural level who are literally emotionally and sexually starving and who are genuinely seeking for nice adventures / relationships with a refined foreigner of same social level and with some cultural knowledge, and this without any materialistic expectations.
Once more, thanks to the loutish and rude Russian men population.
PS: some might be suspicious about the reality of her profile, but because among others of her Facebook account I can attest that she is "real".
[QUOTE=Prosal; 1286652]I am "relationship building" through my fav dating site with a 27 yo girl from Moscow. 8+ in looks, working as a presenter on a TV channel. What strikes is that a girl of such a social level needs to put a profile on a "east meets west" dating site to find eligible men (that said, after being harassed on the site by dozens of silly sex-weaned turk and italian guys, she has quickly deleted her profile, so now we communicate via FB or sms).
This confirm the fact that there is thousands over thousands fine and genuine Russian women of high social and cultural level who are literally emotionally and sexually starving and who are genuinely seeking for nice adventures / relationships with a refined foreigner of same social level and with some cultural knowledge, and this without any materialistic expectations.
Once more, thanks to the loutish and rude Russian men population.
PS: some might be suspicious about the reality of her profile, but because among others of her Facebook account I can attest that she is "real".[/QUOTE]I have always been under the notion that one must find the diamond in the rough when it comes to EE girls. This is where me and you apparently differ in ideology. Prosal, with all due respect, you always talk about high society and glam. It is my personal belief that once EE girls are introduced to these things that your chance as a foreigner becomes almost zero. My luck has always been with catching girls when they are still impressionable and in needy moments of life. When I was in Kiev, I did notice the good looking 40 plus guys with what appeared to be hot village girls and not Kiev high society. Yes I know that I am but a newbie to you in actual EE land but I can only preach what I know to be fact.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1286802]This is where me and you apparently differ in ideology. Prosal, with all due respect, you always talk about high society and glam. It is my personal belief that once EE girls are introduced to these things that your chance as a foreigner becomes almost zero.[/QUOTE]Well, as usual YMMV, but from my experience, it's often with the higher class women that I've had the best uninhibited and uncomplicated adventures. They already have access to the best their society has to offer, have no materialistic expectations, and only feel that what the one thing they miss out in life is romance and adventures.
I never talk about "glam" women by the way (and I am not interested in them) , but about women of an above-average social and cultural level, which is different.
6 month ago I met a sweet pie from one of the escort sites.
The first meeting was sweet and GFE so I asked her to meet me again without the agency involvement
I visit Moscow at least once a month for 2-3 days so she accepted the idea of monthly bank transfer of 500$
On my visits she waits at the airport and spend the evenings with me.
Without this arrangement I would spend around 1000$ for 3 nights.
I don't care what she is doing on the rest of the time
[QUOTE=Zamziv; 1289991]I visit Moscow at least once a month for 2-3 days so she accepted the idea of monthly bank transfer of 500$
On my visits she waits at the airport and spend the evenings with me.
E[/QUOTE]Sounds like a very nice and cost effective arrangement to me!
Well done!
[QUOTE=Prosal; 1286819]Well, as usual YMMV, but from my experience, it's often with the higher class women that I've had the best uninhibited and uncomplicated adventures. They already have access to the best their society has to offer, have no materialistic expectations, and only feel that what the one thing they miss out in life is romance and adventures.
I never talk about "glam" women by the way (and I am not interested in them) , but about women of an above-average social and cultural level, which is different.[/QUOTE]Just to illustrate. Those "socially above-average" Russian women are not only emotionally starving, but they are also very forward and direct when it comes to sex. They think like men. If they like you, they will fuck you sooner or later, and most often sooner than later. Here is a sms that a 36 yo moscovite sent me the very next day after our first meeting in Paris (which nicely finished by a frenchkiss) , inviting me for a so-called "pyjama party" (ie a booze and wild fuck evening) in her flat. She actually welcomed me in short nightie. And stilettos! (and two bottles of Chardonnais). A tall girl, about 1. 84 m, super good job (something like international sales manager, I didn't understand well) at Merck Moscow.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1286802]It is my personal belief that once EE girls are introduced to these things that your chance as a foreigner becomes almost zero.[/QUOTE]Just for the record, for her five days stay in Paris, she rented a super nice 300€/day flat in the heart of Montmartre.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1303337]inviting me for a so-called "pyjama party" (ie a booze and wild fuck evening) in her flat. She actually welcomed me in short nightie. And stilettos! (and two bottles of Chardonnais)[/QUOTE]By the way, here is what she says about her "desired partner" on her profile.
"[I]I am looking for marriage with a man from 40 up to 55 years old, reliable, serious, kind person who would like to create the family in the future. My name is Evgeniya. Single. I have no children, but I would like to have them very much in the future marriage. I speak fluent English. I am optimistic, kind, romantic, good-tempered, honest, cheerful and reliable. I like nature, walking, traveling, music and cinema. [/I]"
Hum. She looks for marriage with a reliable and serious man but she invites a semi-stranger for a pyjama party the next day after the first meeting (first meeting where she got passably drunk). LOL.
Just to say that what a Russian girl writes on their profile must be taken with a grain of salt. (rolleyes)
[QUOTE=Prosal; 1286819]Well, as usual YMMV, but from my experience, it's often with the higher class women that I've had the best uninhibited and uncomplicated adventures. They already have access to the best their society has to offer, have no materialistic expectations, and only feel that what the one thing they miss out in life is romance and adventures.
I never talk about "glam" women by the way (and I am not interested in them) , but about women of an above-average social and cultural level, which is different.[/QUOTE]"MILF market" seems like a more accurate term than "higher class women". (smile)
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1303935]"MILF market" seems like a more accurate term than "higher class women". (smile)[/QUOTE]Hum, you say that because I just reported about a 36 yo. Ok, fair enough. Admittedly, there is surely many Russian women with good social positions who are in their 30s. That said, I know many moscovite women in the 25/30 yo range (MILFs?) with good jobs, who have an enjoyable life and who travel extensively. And who are available for some hot adventure and romance with a foreigner of same social level who would tick all the boxes. My opinion is that there is thousands over thousands of this target group available in Moscow or Piter. Very available. I could be wrong though. Maybe Jake could confirm or belie.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1303957]Hum, you say that because I just reported about a 36 yo. Ok, fair enough. Admittedly, there is surely many Russian women with good social positions who are in their 30s. That said, I know many moscovite women in the 25/30 yo range (MILFs?) with good jobs, who have an enjoyable life and who travel extensively. And who are available for some hot adventure and romance with a foreigner of same social level who would tick all the boxes. My opinion is that there is thousands over thousands of this target group available in Moscow or Piter. Very available. I could be wrong though. Maybe Jake could confirm or belie.[/QUOTE]I have only met two kinds of Slavic women. The young with absolutely nothing and the mature with some kind of depressed husband / boyfriend at home. I never found a single girl with a good job. I only found single girls with the potential for a good job.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1304265]I have only met two kinds of Slavic women. The young with absolutely nothing and the mature with some kind of depressed husband / boyfriend at home. I never found a single girl with a good job. I only found single girls with the potential for a good job.[/QUOTE]Funnily enough, I have met more and more single Russian women lately in their 20's who are becoming more successful in their jobs. But I do concede that it IS still a bit rare. The problem is that these girls are not really all that interested in foreigners from the perspective of what we can do for them. These girls have their own money and their own circle of friends. HOWEVER, when they do date guys like us, they make it pretty clear that they will pay for NOTHING (restaurants, clubs, etc). If you are out with one of these young successful, good looking babes and she offers to pay for her own drinks, then sex is probably not on the menu. She just wants to "be friends".
We discussed this in detail about a year ago and I believe it to be true now even more. The mentality of Russian women is that, even if they are successful and are financially independent, if sex is anywhere in the realm of possibility, then YOU are going to pay for EVERYTHING. It's just the way it is. They spend their money on clothes, hair, nails and makeup to look good for you and you pay for the entertainment. Un-written rule.
Ooops, have I wandered off topic?
[QUOTE=Jake993;1304566]If you are out with one of these young successful, good looking babes and she offers to pay for her own drinks, then sex is probably not on the menu. She just wants to "be friends".[/QUOTE]Totally agree. It sends a pretty clear message. Same for alcohol. I tried to explain that to a guy on another board, as he complained that on the four dates he got in Piter, three was girls who "didn't drink". So I tried to explain him that a girl who doesn't drink WITH YOU is not necesserely a girl who doesn't drink. She is just sending the message that she is not available to let herself go for you. A very clear message. Maybe later in the evening this same girl will dance on the bar at Coyote Ugly totally drunk with her friends. .
This reminds me a Russian girl that I've dated this winter. We already had four or five mojitos each. And I perfectly know that when a Russian girl begins to drink, it's that she wants to fuck. It's a VERY positive message that she sends you. But she still tried to "test" me. She looked at me very seriously and said that I was a super nice guy, but that we could only be friends. I knew it was BS. It was a test. If I had answered "ok", I would have appeared like a weakling, a guy who not even able to be forward about what he wants, a guy not worth a adventure. So I just looked at her without a word and smiled in a ironic but indulgent way, to make her feel that what she just said was only total childish BS. And I ordered two other mojitos. One hour later she was in my bed for some 1000 mph rough and dirty sex.
As for paying, you are right, it has been discussed dozens of time. In Russia and out on the town, a man pays for everything, period.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1304587]Totally agree. It sends a pretty clear message. Same for alcohol. I tried to explain that to a guy on another board, as he complained that on the four dates he got in Piter, three was girls who "didn't drink". So I tried to explain him that a girl who doesn't drink WITH YOU is not necesserely a girl who doesn't drink. She is just sending the message that she is not available to let herself go for you. A very clear message. Maybe later in the evening this same girl will dance on the bar at Coyote Ugly totally drunk with her friends. .[/QUOTE]I have always viewed alcohol as something they could lay blame to for being so quickly promiscuous in case the relationship developed into something. That's the great thing about Slavs. When they are into you, they need to f* fast.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1304587]This reminds me a Russian girl that I've dated this winter. We already had four or five mojitos each. And I perfectly know that when a Russian girl begins to drink, it's that she wants to fuck. It's a VERY positive message that she sends you. But she still tried to "test" me. She looked at me very seriously and said that I was a super nice guy, but that we could only be friends. I knew it was BS. It was a test. If I had answered "ok", I would have appeared like a weakling, a guy who not even able to be forward about what he wants, a guy not worth a adventure. So I just looked at her without a word and smiled in a ironic but indulgent way, to make her feel that what she just said was only total childish BS. And I ordered two other mojitos. One hour later she was in my bed for some 1000 mph rough and dirty sex.[/QUOTE]This one brought me a chuckle, remembering my Moscow conquest a few months ago. The second night that I met "N" we went to dance and drink at Petrovich (if I'd been there more I'd have known that was a big clue). She got pretty hammered, as did I, but I got her back to my hotel about 4 am. With only a thong on, she looked at me and said "We're just going to be friends right?" I told her no fuckin way, not now. And she was riding the red horse immediately from there. Interesting corroboration there. Hehehe.
The Tanuki
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1304744]That's the great thing about Slavs. When they are into you, they need to f* fast.[/QUOTE]+1. And the first "fuck-me message" they send you is when they start to seriously drink with you.
BTW one of the Russian girls with who I've had some of the most boozing nights out (and I've had MANY seriously boozing nights out with Russian girls) was a girl who had on her mamba profile "drinking habits: teetotal". LOL.
Once more, what a Russian girl writes on their profile must be taken with a grain of salt. (rolleyes).
[QUOTE=Prosal;1305478]And the first "fuck-me message" they send you is when they start to seriously drink with you.[/QUOTE]My experience has usually been that if a Russian/Ukrainian woman has more than 2/3 drinks with you, then she will be offended if you don't at least try to have sex with her...
Russian women's cultural knowledge is often astounging. They are not only beautiful, but also intelligent (a huge turn-on for me).
The last OEDC education report says that Russia is the most educated country in the world, with some 88% of the adult population that have attained at least upper secondary education, and 54% that have a tertiary qualification.
[QUOTE=Prosal; 1327999]Russian women's cultural knowledge is often astounging. They are not only beautiful, but also intelligent (a huge turn-on for me).
The last OEDC education report says that Russia is the most educated country in the world, with some 88% of the adult population that have attained at least upper secondary education, and 54% that have a tertiary qualification.[/QUOTE]Interesting stats Prosal,
Not that surprising I suppose considering 80 years of a centralized education system. However, if you were to stop any professional over the age of 40 on the streets of Moscow and ask him (or her) what he (or she) thinks of the current state of education in Russia, they won't hesitate a moment and tell you that it has "gone to shit". While those statistics are probably correct, there is a huge debate here in Russia about the QUALITY of the education being administered. A young woman I know with top marks from a prestigious economics school said that many (if not half) her classmates are just "warming a seat" until they graduate and move to a job at a Western firm that has been purchased for them by their wealthy fathers.
What was that old saying?"There are lies, damned lies and statistics".
[QUOTE=Jake993;1328317]What was that old saying?"There are lies, damned lies and statistics".[/QUOTE]Totally agree. That said, I find Russian girls intelligence, or at least cultural knowledge, astounding, even among the ditzier ones. Most are very well read in my experience, and by-and-large, far more learned in classical arts (literature, painting, music) than Western or American girls. Not even talking about Asians, who are, for most of all, culturally totally hopeless. I guess this is because of the Russian schools, which are still very Soviet in many ways, which does involve lots of repetitive learning and studying the classics.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1328383]Totally agree. That said, I find Russian girls intelligence, or at least cultural knowledge, astounding, even among the ditzier ones. Most are very well read in my experience, and by-and-large, far more learned in classical arts (literature, painting, music) than Western or American girls. Not even talking about Asians, who are, for most of all, culturally totally hopeless. I guess this is because of the Russian schools, which are still very Soviet in many ways, which does involve lots of repetitive learning and studying the classics.[/QUOTE]Prosal,
I absolutely agree with you there. I find that any evening with a Russian girl (even if it does NOT end in sex) is interesting and often educational.
Jake
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1328776]Prosal,
I absolutely agree with you there. I find that any evening with a Russian girl (even if it does NOT end in sex) is interesting and often educational.
Jake[/QUOTE]Right. Most of them are great conversationalists. And if you can get them into a witty and interesting conversation (accompanied by a few mojitos LOL) and break down any defensive barriers they have, that will usually lead to sex if you play your cards right.
It had been my experience as well that the Russian girls are really high-quality women. Even ones that grab you by their looks, when you talk to them, are very well read, and many of them have an artistic talent, like they play the piano, or ballet.
I have not mixed much with Russian girls before my last trip to Barcelona. But honestly, I am impressed with both their looks, and their level of education.
They have a thing though where they are very direct, more blatantly honest than I am used to. As in, they will tell you the truth, rather than deal with it in the politically correct way.
Things like : "Your Russian is really bad". They say it, as if it's not a big deal, and I am not culturally used to that. LOL
[QUOTE=Sympalogy;1328802]They have a thing though where they are very direct, more blatantly honest than I am used to. As in, they will tell you the truth, rather than deal with it in the politically correct way.[/QUOTE]There is a deep feeling, specifically Russian, of contempt for everything conventional, for everything that most Western people consider as "good" (in a moral sense),"reasonable" or "politically correct".
[QUOTE=Sympalogy;1328802]Things like : "Your Russian is really bad". They say it, as if it's not a big deal, and I am not culturally used to that. LOL[/QUOTE]Sympa, the correct response in this situation is to immediately fire back to the Russian girl,"Great, because I like my Russians to be really bad". Keeps things in the right spirit that they like. A number of Brownie points won with this and similar. Some girls, LOL.
E.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1328933]There is a deep feeling, specifically Russian, of contempt for everything conventional, for everything that most Western people consider as "good" (in a moral sense),"reasonable" or "politically correct".[/QUOTE]This is an interesting quirk of EE behavior. When well educated EE's are initially thrown into Western society, it is shocking how they are almost disgusted by the culture of the well educated and there specific cliques. Yet, with time, as they slowly assimilate into those groups, the social circles that once made them comfortable in the beginning become low class and beneath them. Very weird, but saw it many times.
[QUOTE=Excess; 1329181]Sympa, the correct response in this situation is to immediately fire back to the Russian girl,"Great, because I like my Russians to be really bad". Keeps things in the right spirit that they like. A number of Brownie points won with this and similar. Some girls, LOL.
E.[/QUOTE]In hindsight, I can come up with a million and one ways to have fun with what she said LOL.
However, I did not expect it at all. It came out of left field, and I was just like: "WTF? Is this really happening?"
But hey, I actually appreciated the honesty. I prefer to have an honest answer, than a lie.
Still, it's the first time that a girl, who is otherwise very cool and highly educated, just does not care how well or badly I'd take criticism.
She said it with a good heart though.
I can tell. It wasn't rude at all, like some American or Argentinian girls can be absolutely rude and even condescending.
She said it with the innocence of someone honest, who thinks that honesty is the way things should be. It just was direct, in an unexpected way. Haha
Just for the record.
[QUOTE=Prosal;1381572]Just for the record.[/QUOTE]Hmmm. Forgot to finish the post.
Anyway. About tattoos. I have big and colored japonese-style Kois (carps) tattoos on the arm, covering the shoulder and the arm till the wrist (which doesn't prevent me to wear refined and styled clothes) , and I noticed that it was a magnet for many Russian girls, especially the most cosmopolitan and "arty" ones. Art tattoos are not really popular in FSU, but from a recent stay in Moscow, I remarked that a wider cross section of society, especially the cosmopolitan and trendy upper-classes, get them.
Tattoos in FSU are rather a gopnik thing, but I think the days where middle classes looked down their noses at people who have tattoos infering that it's soley a working class (white trash as yanks say) practice are happily gone.
Any thoughts?
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There was a section of the forum regarding semi pros or just a link for a report of distinction somewhere I couldn't find it if someone remembers please tell me. Anyway let me tell you my story and you guys make the analysis because I am really so conficious about it.
I am in Evpatoria / Ukraine for mongering purposes mostly for freebies and semi pros. (I didn't put this Ukraine forum because many russians here and some of them that I talk to were russians. I had gone to Frigat restaurant because a taxi driver told me all p4p action going on there. About ten o clock the place was crowded and before I leave I had decided to take the shot. I had approached a table just next to stage and asked them to drink smt with them. They hardly understand what I tell them. I don't speak Russian by the way. Not even basic. The younger one shake her head and the older one said no after her. I moved to the other table and I was lucky the woman was an english teacher in novosibrisk and she allowed me to sit. There are three women two middle age Tatiana and Elena an the third one is 37 whyear old named Lina. Elena told me that only Lina is single an her and Tatiana are married. Very good news so I can easily focus on her. Tatiana and Elena are just 5 and Lina is 7. Lina has very little english and very cold and distant in the beginning. I am pushing and I am lucky because Elena is supporting me a lot. Tatiana and Elena going to dance and pass the seat next to Lina. She is getting warm and warm. Tells me a th&305; usand thing in Russian but I only understand 5% of it. I repeatdely use the phrase that I had memorised from Russian dating site. Ty takaya dobraya and some other versions of this. She is getting bored of these and says harasho harasho but things are going on a funny way. We go to stage for a slow dance and things really going fine but she is asking me to go to dance floor and try other girls I say no and telling her to marry me. This is being done in a joyfull atmosphere and Elena and Tatiana are having a lot or fun. They have this bottle of champagne and she drinks a bit more and telling me she is drunk. We go to dance floor a few times more and I succeed to take a few french kiss from her. Showing me her bra. I put my hands all over her body and she is comfortable with it. While we are dancing she puts her on my back She is asking why I just drink water. I tell her it bothers me if I drink too much (the real reason is to be able to make hard mr. Dick if we go to my hotel.) At the end they are telling me they will be here tomorrow at 9 o clock and they have to go to Randevu club because they have some friends there that waiting.
My questions;
1) I ask maybe 50 girls here mostly semi pros but I always take no it s just because that I can't speak the language or they are not very much into Turks by the way I am 34 years old average look and overweight.
2) If I go tomorrow night I should see them waiting me and should I have a chance with her.
I am very open to your analysis please feel free to comment any part of the story. Not just focus on questions
[QUOTE=Iceberg27; 1457284]
My questions;
1) I ask maybe 50 girls here mostly semi pros but I always take no it s just because that I can't speak the language or they are not very much into Turks by the way I am 34 years old average look and overweight.
2) If I go tomorrow night I should see them waiting me and should I have a chance with her.
I am very open to your analysis please feel free to comment any part of the story. Not just focus on questions[/QUOTE]I feel ya Iceberg.
I'm following your posts from Ukraine thread and came here. I understand this is Russian / Ukraine forum / topic. However, the amount of time, energy and money you spent to get laid with freebies would have gotten you 100 lays in The Philippines easily.
I feel this is way too much effort on your side to get laid. This shouldn't be this way. I'm not sure your taste on women. May be you only like blond Caucasian women. But if you are just looking for fresh P***y all day and night for free (plus usual dinner etc). You should try Philippines once in your life. I guarantee you will be Sexed Out.
I'm now realizing how easy it is in Philippines. As grass is greener on the other side thingy and people get bored eating same food everyday, I started researching on Ukraine / Russia and due to visa issues, got it delayed. I just wanted to find a new place for vacation after spending couple of years in Philippines.
If you just want pure fun with no hassle and drama. Go to Philippines. This is way too much work for mongering to get laid when you have money and time. You should be getting laid every hour.
I understand the taste in women. Its good to have change. But, just to keep a BASE, where P*sy will be waiting for you 24/7 I would suggest go to Philippines and to hunt and wait and play the endless game, we can try all over the world.
I'm sorry if this was off topic regarding your travel. I just felt you should know other places where you could easily get laid with 1/10th the effort.
Everyone speaks english in Ph and there is no issues of discrimination etc. You will feel like a king in Philippines.
As they say." Once You Go Asian. You Never Go Caucasian") good luck
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[QUOTE=Starchild2012; 1457310]I feel ya Iceberg.
I'm following your posts from Ukraine thread and came here. I understand this is Russian / Ukraine forum / topic. However, the amount of time, energy and money you spent to get laid with freebies would have gotten you 100 lays in The Philippines easily.
I'm now realizing how easy it is in Philippines. As grass is greener on the other side thingy and people get bored eating same food everyday, I started researching on Ukraine/
Everyone speaks english in Ph and there is no issues of discrimination etc. You will feel like a king in Philippines.
As they say." Once You Go Asian. You Never Go Caucasian") good luck[/QUOTE]I understand very well what you mean because I was in Thailand two years ago. Philippines must be similar. I also know pinays very well because when I am twenties I was a fun of yahoo messenger Philippines chat rooms. They are also passionate women. First reason that I don't go there is my taste I am much more into blonde and tall women. And second reason is Philippines is about 12 hours flight from here so you need at least ten days vacation for it nless not worth to get 24 hours total flight.
EE is just 1 to 3 hours flight from istanbul. Thanks for your advices. If I can learn how to deal with EE women it will payback a lot to me.
I'm just curious. I have not told any of my Russian girls that I love them. The most I have done is say "I adore you."
That said, I am almost certain that two of the girls I am dating would say "Yes" in a heartbeat if I asked them to marry me. Yet neither has said that they love me. Is it a forbidden thing for Russian girls to say "I love you" first? I have never had a girlfriend that did not say those words before I did.
No it's not forbidden for girls to say I love you before you do. I have had Russian girlfriends do this. But it does mean a lot for them to say it, I have pushed girls in the past to say it and it has not gone well. But also remember that just because they would marry you does not mean they love you. Marriage in Russia is more of a business like arrangement and especially for older girls love is difficult to be told)
[QUOTE=YummyPL; 1477373]I'm just curious. I have not told any of my Russian girls that I love them. The most I have done is say "I adore you."
That said, I am almost certain that two of the girls I am dating would say "Yes" in a heartbeat if I asked them to marry me. Yet neither has said that they love me. Is it a forbidden thing for Russian girls to say "I love you" first? I have never had a girlfriend that did not say those words before I did.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1477373]That said, I am almost certain that two of the girls I am dating would say "Yes" in a heartbeat if I asked them to marry me.[/QUOTE]Yes, of course, but do they [i]love[/i] you? Jonners is right, don't confuse love with marriage, they are two different things.
Is it important to you that they express their love for you?
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1477687]Yes, of course, but do they [i]love[/i] You? Jonners is right, don't confuse love with marriage, they are two different things.
Is it important to you that they express their love for you?[/QUOTE]Well, I certainly would not get married to a girl that I thought did not love me or even one that would not express it if I did think they in fact loved me. But I am not looking for marriage or love here. I was just curious as I have dated many girls in my life and any other that I have gotten this far in a relationship had already said it. I was just wondering if it were some kind of cultural rule that the guy say it first in Russia.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1477870]Well, I certainly would not get married to a girl that I thought did not love me or even one that would not express it if I did think they in fact loved me. But I am not looking for marriage or love here. I was just curious as I have dated many girls in my life and any other that I have gotten this far in a relationship had already said it. I was just wondering if it were some kind of cultural rule that the guy say it first in Russia.[/QUOTE]Yummy,
This is a REALLY complicated topic. Strav is right. Love and marriage do not necessarily go hand in hand. Russian girls are VERY pragmatic. Any that are over the age of about 22 understand the importance of security and stability. IE, post soviet instability and 1997 financial crisis. Many turned to prostitution to survive and others married to men they did not love. Their daughters are now in their late teens and early 20's and have been taught the value of stability. Having said that, the IDEA of love and marriage is still something Russian girls dream of. Will a Russian girl marry a stable, kind man whom they did not love romantically? Absolutely 100% for sure, yes.
Now, just because she's married does not mean she is not looking for romance. This is where it gets tricky. Just because a 32 year old hottie is married to a stable (but boring) husband does NOT mean she is not looking for action. To me, this sub group is the most interesting of all. Aw hell, who am I kidding? I just like the fact that once they screw your brains out for 3 hours, they shower up and go home to their families and EVERYONE is happy!
Sorry, I wandered a little off topic. To answer your question, no there is no cultural rule. There are romantic girls and thee are pragmatic girls. A lot will say they love you because they think you want to hear it. But then again, just because they don't say it does not mean they don't love you for fear that they will scare you off. I had an unfortunate experience lately where I split up with a very nice divorced lady I was (am) very fond of. Sex was great, we got a long good and I thought we had a really nice casual relationship because she never said she loved me. She did say she liked me and I thought this was just great because I really liked her too. But when the relationship started getting a little too close I started putting a little distance betweens us. She pressed me for answers and when I told her that we really did not have a future together, she was destroyed. Turns out she WAS in love with me. I just did not know it. Of course I am giving you the short version, but that's it in a nutshell.
By being honest, I drove her away. I'm sure I will look back and see that I did the right thing. But it sure does not feel very good.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1477870]I was just curious as I have dated many girls in my life and any other that I have gotten this far in a relationship had already said it.[/QUOTE]Interesting... obviously you are not talking about the Russian girls you have met.
Can't help but be curious, what are the nationalities of these other girls? Are you talking about; American, European, Latin, Asian?
[QUOTE=YummyPL; 1477373]I'm just curious. I have not told any of my Russian girls that I love them. The most I have done is say "I adore you."
That said, I am almost certain that two of the girls I am dating would say "Yes" in a heartbeat if I asked them to marry me. Yet neither has said that they love me. Is it a forbidden thing for Russian girls to say "I love you" first? I have never had a girlfriend that did not say those words before I did.[/QUOTE]You should be the first to say that and wait for their reply. Maybe Russian girls are a bit nervous that's why they are not the first one to say it, they are afraid of rejection.
A more philosophical question for the older married / divorced guys. In your personal case, what was the turning point in the marriage where things changed with the wife?
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1485204]A more philosophical question for the older married / divorced guys. In your personal case, what was the turning point in the marriage where things changed with the wife?[/QUOTE]When she went to college. Was all down hill from there and she left in her first year of medical school. Left me and our kid and never looked back. Men were constantly trying to get to her once she started leaving the house on her own. Word to the wise, keep her happy but keep her close. She finally admitted she used me for a green card and getting pregnant was an accident. Oh well, I got a great kid out of it.
[QUOTE=TexasMorrell;1486663]Oh well, I got a great kid out of it.[/QUOTE]... and the child is worth 10 of the mother. ;)
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1485204]A more philosophical question for the older married / divorced guys. In your personal case, what was the turning point in the marriage where things changed with the wife?[/QUOTE]Definitely after the kid was born. We were married for almost 10 years before having a daughter. But with the stress of parenthood, the quality of our sex life dropped like a stone off a cliff. We are still married and coming up on 30 years, but for all practical purposes we live apart. I live and work in Russia and she lives and works back in the USA. I endured an almost sex-less marriage for 10 years while remaining faithful. On my first trip to Russia I fell off the wagon and have not looked back. My wife and I still get along great when I do come home, but if I lived at home, we would probably be divorced by now. It's better this way.
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma;1485204]A more philosophical question for the older married / divorced guys. In your personal case, what was the turning point in the marriage where things changed with the wife?[/QUOTE]My wife and I got married in 1990 and had a great marriage and sex life with no kids for 11 years. I got a vasectomy when I was 22 by both of our choice. During this time I was in the Army Reserve but in a very specialized field. From September of 2001 to November of 2009 I was deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan for 5 of those 8 years. During those years my wife turned from a vibrant and happy 5'2" 105 pound person to a 150 pound total neurotic. We blame the Army but I really blame myself. I know deep down it is my fault. Like Jake, I am still married but 90% of the time we are apart. In 2007 while I was away from home I went to a strip club and took one of the strippers to my hotel. After 2009 I fucked a few more American escorts but I started traveling to Germany and got into the FKK scene and the rest is history. My wife and I are good friends but if we lived together I am sure we would be divorced. We just had our 23rd anniversary.
Does anyone have a good excuse for having lots of scratches down your back that look remarkably like fingernail scratches?
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1486924]Does anyone have a good excuse for having lots of scratches down your back that look remarkably like fingernail scratches?[/QUOTE]Tell her her you had a fight with a bear who was trying to eat you.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1486924]Does anyone have a good excuse for having lots of scratches down your back that look remarkably like fingernail scratches?[/QUOTE]You live with a neurotic cat?
You used to work with Siegfried and Roy?
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1486924]Does anyone have a good excuse for having lots of scratches down your back that look remarkably like fingernail scratches?[/QUOTE]Nice problem to have.
Examples which I thought would be mentioned. When I was courting Russian girls and they responded with being cautious or that they have something to lose, I often responded with an example of a friend of mine which is not dissimilar, who married and looked after a Russian girl for a number of years before she just left him for something slightly higher middle class. I'm sure she was just stepping her way up and it continued after the next guy. For the person I was presenting to be, I had a lot more to lose than they did if they decided to use me.
Russian girls are well aware that the west is a new lease on life for them if they are over 25. I'm sure you guys know that this is the turning point for girls in Russia. It has to be children and marriage before 25 or they are too old. In the west they could push this until 35 in modern times. I wouldn't want to be the guy who has fallen in love and used for this gateway.
I come from the mind set that relationships have expiry dates and I'm probably a rather cold bastard when it comes to the end.
Otherwise, a country full of beautiful women who largely come from broken families with either no father, or worse, that have 'father issues' proved to be quite the dream destination for an older guy. The very last girl (26 yo) I was sleeping with told me, among many other things, that her first boy friend was over 10 years her senior. Her Italian sugar daddy was over 40 with her being 20 or 21 travelling to and from Italy to be with him, and a string of other older men in her life. Her reasoning was that she lost her father when she was 13 and was attracted to older men.
I have never been married but have dated quite a few fresh "off the boat" girls. The change in mentality with these women occurs when they come to realize that their will ALWAYS be a man to take care of them in America. They will most certainly seek a man that gives the best balance to age, job / social prestige, and compatibility.
[QUOTE=YummyPL; 1486882].
My wife and I are good friends but if we lived together I am sure we would be divorced. We just had our 23rd anniversary.[/QUOTE]You are 'good friends', not living together. Why are you afraid that she might see your scratches on your back?
Is this relationship still more intimate than you admit to yourself? You don't help your wife to make a new start in life, when you don't know for yourself what kind of relationship you wish to have for your future life. The scratches are not the problem, they are just a symptom of your screwed up sexual life traveling around the FKK scene. As is your wife's overweight. You might think about a consensual divorce, making space for a start into new real-life relationship. This fucking around in the scene means avoiding a sexual activity embedded in a love relationship. I wish you all happiness for your future life!
[QUOTE=Ganesha;1487444]The scratches are not the problem, they are just a symptom of your screwed up sexual life traveling around the FKK scene. As is your wife's overweight.[/QUOTE]Well, this is always the problem with being honest-some sick fuck will try to use it to their advantage. As always, a rant like this reveals more about the accuser than the accused. I'm sure we're all sorry for the emotional scars you carry around with you, Ganesha. If you would like to speak honestly about yourself, as Yummy did, you might get a sincere response. Otherwise, you're just taking up valuable disk storage.
[QUOTE=Climaxnow;1487430]I have never been married but have dated quite a few fresh "off the boat" girls. The change in mentality with these women occurs when they come to realize that their will ALWAYS be a man to take care of them in America. They will most certainly seek a man that gives the best balance to age, job / social prestige, and compatibility.[/QUOTE]I think you've got it all wrong Climax. The change in mentality with these women occurs when they come to realize that they DO NOT need a man to take of them.
[QUOTE=DavidVanSchuma; 1487420]Russian girls are well aware that the west is a new lease on life for them if they are over 25. I'm sure you guys know that this is the turning point for girls in Russia. It has to be children and marriage before 25 or they are too old. In the west they could push this until 35 in modern times.
Otherwise, a country full of beautiful women who largely come from broken families with either no father, or worse, that have 'father issues' proved to be quite the dream destination for an older guy. The very last girl (26 yo) I was sleeping with told me, among many other things, that her first boy friend was over 10 years her senior. Her Italian sugar daddy was over 40 with her being 20 or 21 travelling to and from Italy to be with him, and a string of other older men in her life. Her reasoning was that she lost her father when she was 13 and was attracted to older men.[/QUOTE]My thoughts exactly. I dated a Russian cougar here last year and all she had was her body as she must have looked at least 10 years younger. Basically she used some older guy for immigration to the country, and she lives a better life here then she could ever back come. She dates way more men here and younger too compared to Russia and FSU where women approaching 40 are a pretty much ignored she is living it up.
[QUOTE=Ganesha;1487444]You are 'good friends', not living together. Why are you afraid that she might see your scratches on your back?[/QUOTE]Ha ha ha. No I am not worried my wife seeing the scratches. I am thinking about Lana and Olga, the girls I am "dating" in Moscow seeing the scratches. I don't think Olga would say anything and will probably try harder to please me, but I am certain that Lana will say something.
My wife knows I have sexual relationships outside the marriage. I am almost totally honest with her. Probably far more honest than most men. I have nothing to hide from her. We are still "together" (not divorced) because it works for us. I suspect we will get closer as we grow older and simple companionship becomes more important.
[QUOTE=YummyPL; 1487776]Ha ha ha. No I am not worried my wife seeing the scratches. I am thinking about Lana and Olga, the girls I am "dating" in Moscow seeing the scratches. I don't think Olga would say anything and will probably try harder to please me, but I am certain that Lana will say something.
My wife knows I have sexual relationships outside the marriage. I am almost totally honest with her. Probably far more honest than most men. I have nothing to hide from her. We are still "together" (not divorced) because it works for us. I suspect we will get closer as we grow older and simple companionship becomes more important.[/QUOTE]I think Ganesha now knows he read way too much into your original question.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1487776]My wife knows I have sexual relationships outside the marriage. I am almost totally honest with her. Probably far more honest than most men. I have nothing to hide from her. We are still "together" (not divorced) because it works for us. I suspect we will get closer as we grow older and simple companionship becomes more important.[/QUOTE]Yummy,
You bring up a good point. I was watching a movie the other day about a guy who was about to be married to a girl who he just learned liked other women better than men. The movie was set in the 60's so it was important for this "society girl" to be seen married with children despite her orientation. Before the wedding she comes clean with the young man and offers to let him have a mistress after they are married so that he can still keep up appearances. The young man in question is confused and his father tries to counsel him saying, "son, a lasting marriage is not always about love. Sometimes it is more about the partnership". You may not be "in love" anymore, but it does not man that you don't respect each other, care for each other and make a good team. While not a popular topic in this modern day, it IS possible to separate sex from love.
Nadya: Russia teaches you to do bad things more often.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1488174]Nadya: Russia teaches you to do bad things more often.[/QUOTE]Out of the mouths of babes.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1487776]My wife knows I have sexual relationships outside the marriage. I am almost totally honest with her. Probably far more honest than most men. I have nothing to hide from her. We are still "together" (not divorced) because it works for us. I suspect we will get closer as we grow older and simple companionship becomes more important.[/QUOTE]YPL, does that work the other way around?
In other words, does she see other men when you're away?
[QUOTE=Gergiev; 1488455]YPL, does that work the other way around?
In other words, does she see other men when you're away?[/QUOTE]I'm not sure. She has never told me she is having sex with other men (and I never asked) but I know she has male "friends" that she goes out with. She is 4 years older than me (now 49) and seemed to reach he sexual peak when she was in her early 30s. She certainly has no significant interest in fucking me but I guess it is possible. I think it is clear to her that I don't have any problem with her having sex with other men.
Yummy, I think that you have a great understanding in your relationship. Libido mismatch is a huge point of difference as a married couple ages and your wife is very realistic and understanding if she can live with this.
My friend, I can totally agree with you. Russia & ukraine is great destinations if you speak langue. Otherwise both countries are crazy expensive, mostly hard to find semi pros and mongerings restricted with some night clubs and websites (mamba).
In Thailand girls are waiting for you with wet pussy and praying for you to drill them one day only for 1500 baht (50$). Just my 2 cents.
But another thing is thailand is 10 hours from Istanbul while Kiev 2 hours and St piter 3 hours.
Happy mongering for all.
[QUOTE=Starchild2012; 1457310]I feel ya Iceberg.
I'm following your posts from Ukraine thread and came here. I understand this is Russian / Ukraine forum / topic. However, the amount of time, energy and money you spent to get laid with freebies would have gotten you 100 lays in The Philippines easily.
I feel this is way too much effort on your side to get laid. This shouldn't be this way. I'm not sure your taste on women. May be you only like blond Caucasian women. But if you are just looking for fresh P*why all day and night for free (plus usual dinner etc). You should try Philippines once in your life. I guarantee you will be Sexed Out.
I'm now realizing how easy it is in Philippines. As grass is greener on the other side thingy and people get bored eating same food everyday, I started researching on Ukraine / Russia and due to visa issues, got it delayed. I just wanted to find a new place for vacation after spending couple of years in Philippines.
If you just want pure fun with no hassle and drama. Go to Philippines. This is way too much work for mongering to get laid when you have money and time. You should be getting laid every hour.
I understand the taste in women. Its good to have change. But, just to keep a BASE, where P*sy will be waiting for you 24/7 I would suggest go to Philippines and to hunt and wait and play the endless game, we can try all over the world.
I'm sorry if this was off topic regarding your travel. I just felt you should know other places where you could easily get laid with 1/10th the effort.
Everyone speaks english in Ph and there is no issues of discrimination etc. You will feel like a king in Philippines.
As they say." Once You Go Asian. You Never Go Caucasian") good luck[/QUOTE]
Monger fends off attempted murder / robbery perpetrated by vicious bloodthirsty bandit tramps and their gang of hooligans!
Yes, I'm pleased to report that although I received a hell of a scare, I was fortunately in good enough physical condition to fight back against a face full of pepper spray and a deep laceration inflicted by an undetermined weapon, to lift up and throw two really fucked up podsirushkas by their hair against the wall and out on their asses in the hallway.
If there is one thing that's obvious, its that bandits are not necessarily known for their forethought in planning robberies. If your plan is to blast your victim in the face with a cloud of pepper spray, in the very small area just inside an apartment doorway, where you hang up your coats, you really should keep in mind that half of the cloud of pepper spray will blow right back into your own face.
Now I, being respectful of police doing their jobs, and not being a radical protester type, had never experienced being pepper-sprayed before. When I get pulled over for a traffic violation, I am polite to the officer. And I don't March in protests where police need to use crowd control to disperse angry mobs.
I met Tanya a few years ago, through an agency. I was certainly aware that she was not from a good family, but she never tried to pull any scams on me. She had some interesting girlfriends that she introduced me to, typically they were brunetkas in their early 20's and while far from being hot models, they were hungry for a chance to release a lot of pent-up sexual frustration upon lucky me. Through all those encounters, Tanya always told me that she was satisfied with the level of my generosity, for the gifts she received for those introductions.
So, Tanya had been in my apartment at least six times, maybe more. Sitting on the sofa, having some brief but pleasant conversations, she never gave me any extra reason to suspect that the day would come when she would greet me with an attempt to incapacitate me with a toxic agent, so she could let her boys in to rob me and throw me out my 7th story window!
But that was her plan this year. I suspect that either her new husband or his gang proposed the robbery. In the months leading to this Pearl Harbor, I had coincidentally been doing five or six hundred stomach crunch exercises every morning. That preparation, combined with a heavy dose of adrenaline, was likely what saved my life. I certainly could not see or breath, once I was blasted at point blank, with a face full of pepper spray. Instinctively, I immediately realized that my only hope was to grab the key in the lock that I had just turned before turning around to say "Come in", unlock the door, and open it, to push them out of my apartment and into the hallway, and then lock my door. They had the same idea, and so we struggled for the key. I managed to elbow and punch and kick Tanya and her girlfriend in the face, head, and chest to get their hands off the key, though while I was doing that, Tanya stabbed me with something, fortunately only in my knee, and probably while I was executing a roundhouse kick to her head.
In a brawl that only took 15 or 20 seconds, I beat them off just long enough to turn the key twice to unlock the door. Fortunately for me, their gang was still waiting downstairs, thinking that the pepper spray would be enough to subdue me. If they had been waiting in the hallway, I would have had no chance once I opened my door. More evidence that their bandit planning is not very good.
Once I had my door open, my panic immediately change to rage and fury, and I grabbed them one at a time by their hair and slammed their heads as hard as I could into the wall, and then lifted them up and threw them on their asses into the hallway. I locked my door, and headed straight for the bathtub to run the hand held sprayer over my head and face with cold water. It was only at that point that I realized that my entire head and face felt like I was on fire, and that I could not see or breathe. After a few minutes when I could open my eyes to see just a little, I noticed the deep gash in my knee bleeding profusely, and so I started applying direct pressure to stop the bleeding.
The lessons to be learned here. Don't ever trust anyone, especially someone that you think that you can. Never turn your back on anyone, without being mentally and physically prepared to fight off an attack. Always try to plan meetings at a cafe.
A few months after this happened, I was heading out of the center one evening to meet a new lady, as she insisted that I go to her neighborhood for our first date. I found a good taxi who I hired to be a temporary bodyguard, (not the best idea though) , and then I explained to Zhenya that we will have a pleasant meeting, but I also warned this new acquaintance that if she was planning to pull any bandit shit on me, I promised her that she would be sliced up into little pieces after my army buddies had a long initiation party with her.
[QUOTE=Suka Shalava;1493221]Monger fends off attempted murder / robbery perpetrated by vicious bloodthirsty bandit tramps and their gang of hooligans![/QUOTE]What a strange tale...
So, what happened to Tanya?
And why on Earth would you open your door to gang of strange men?
[quote=stravinsky; 1493351]what a strange tale.
so, what happened to tanya?
and why on earth would you open your door to gang of strange men?[/quote]i was writing in too much of a hurry yesterday, which caused me to omit some key info. actually. 6 months prior to this incident, tanya had pulled one scam on me. since over the years, i had established a pretty good track record of trust with her for not scamming me, we had met up and i gave her a nice gift on one particular evening when she came over with a new girlfriend. as had happened many times before, then tanya left us to go on her way. but five minutes later, her girlfriend's phone starts ringing and she jumps up and runs for the door and takes off.
so i actually did have ample reason not to trust her anymore, though to ensure she couldn't pull the same scam again, i simply told her that i can't agree to give her any more gifts, until after everything went smoothly. tanya tried some bogus explanation of an excuse for scamming me, and if i had any sense at all, i never would have called her again, but i broke the monger rule that requires us to always move on and not look back, and show no mercy and no forgiveness, once one of these tricky tramps takes advantage of our generous trusting good nature.
but i did give her another chance, and that's what led me to let my guard down. we met up, and i invited her and her girlfriend to come to my apartment for a visit. her girlfriend was actually a lady that tanya had introduced to me before. tanya was hoping i would agree to spend another evening with her. but i was not interested. instead, we spent almost an hour long pleasant and interesting conversation on the couch, catching up and drinking tea and juice. if they had wanted to rob me, that certainly would have been a much easier chance for success, especially because the girlfriend she had brought with her that evening, was about 5'8" and weighed 160 pounds. tanya herself is a built like a tough little tank. while sitting on the couch, either one of them could have probably tried garotting me from behind as they were coming back from the bathroom, while the other one would have had a simple time getting the key out the door. in comparison, the girlfriend tanya brought over on the pepper-spray attack night was about 5 feet tall and only weighed 95 pounds, and much easier to fight back against.
anyway, after a nice talk that evening, and my declining to repeat dating tanya's girlfriend, tanya and her friend said goodnight and left, and so i just did not think i should be worrying that she had some evil murderous plans in store for me. that's kind of why i suspect her criminal husband or their gang put her up to it, though i know tanya herself has been locked up more than once for shoplifting and breaking into cars, etc.
i'll repeat the lesson again for anyone reading. if you have any reason at all, not to completely trust someone that you know is not a very good person, don't even give them an opportunity to pull shit. meet at a cafe, and preferably in the daytime, and spell out some clear warnings, that if they are even thinking about fucking with you, that you will have them chopped up into pieces and then their whole family will be disappeared.
let me be very clear, i am certainly not advocating the perpetration any kind of criminal acts upon the citizenry of the glorious motherland! always obey all laws! but you have the right to defend yourself, and it never hurts to eliminate any suspicion your new acquaintance might have about your willingness to use maximum violence and deadly force against them and their associates, if they have any ideas about pulling some bandit shit on you.
now strav, you must have mis-read my post, because i was not willingly going to open my door if i thought tanya's gang was waiting for me in the hall. they were waiting downstairs outside, though that was their mistake. as i tried to explain, the moment after i opened my door to let tanya and her girlfriend in, i turned my back on them to lock my door. when i turned around, to help them off with their coats, i was greeted by a blinding cloud of pepper spray. in the first instant, i had no clue what the fuck had happened, but it only took me a second, even though i was blinded, to see the dark black evil in their eyes and their faces, that this was not going to be just a robbery, because i was certainly not going to give up easily, which meant they were trying to secure my key, then call their pals to come up, let them in, and cut my throat and throw me out my seventh floor window.
at that point, i just knew that i had to get the key turned, open the door, throw them out, and lock myself in. i did not want any kind of drawn out fight with them, because i would have eventually had to inflict more than just bruises, and by nature, i don't beat up women. not my thing. all i wanted was to immediately throw them out.
when i first opened my door to let them in, of course i looked through the passport window to make sure they were alone, and even after i opened my door to let them in, i peered down the hall and listened to make sure there was nobody else around.
[QUOTE=Suka Shalava; 1493600]I was writing in too much of a hurry yesterday, which caused me to omit some key info. Actually. 6 months prior to this incident, Tanya had pulled one scam on me. Since over the years, I had established a pretty good track record of trust with her for not scamming me, we had met up and I gave her a nice gift on one particular evening when she came over with a new girlfriend. As had happened many times before, then Tanya left us to go on her way. But five minutes later, her girlfriend's phone starts ringing and she jumps up and runs for the door and takes off.
So I actually did have ample reason not to trust her anymore, though to ensure she couldn't pull the same scam again, I simply told her that I can't agree to give her any more gifts, until after everything went smoothly. Tanya tried some bogus explanation of an excuse for scamming me, and if I had any sense at all, I never would have called her again, but I broke the monger rule that requires us to always move on and not look back, and show no mercy and no forgiveness, once one of these tricky tramps takes advantage of our generous trusting good nature..[/QUOTE]I had a chance to meet 2 beautiful girls that wanted to come to my apartment when I was staying in Yekaterinburg, sure I was only speaking to one on vk for months but she insisted that her friend come also.
That being said, customarily I meet girls outside of the building and bring them upstairs to avoid anything bad happening. 10 minutes before their arrival her friend who knew English well (I speak average Russian) demanded I tell them my floor and apartment number.
Now, these girls were both incredibly beautiful and sexy. But I turned it down.
Your thoughts?
You probably did the best thing, under the circumstances. Particularly when they start demanding to know floor and apartment number.
[QUOTE=Suka Shalava;1493600]I'll repeat the lesson again for anyone reading. If you have any reason at all, not to completely trust someone that you know is not a very good person, don't even give them an opportunity to pull shit. Meet at a cafe, and preferably in the daytime, and spell out some clear warnings, that if they are even thinking about fucking with you, that you will have them chopped up into pieces and then their whole family will be disappeared.[/QUOTE]Wow. Glad you are safe. I now firmly believe this shit is happening all over the world as human beings are basically same. I had the same experience in the Philippines. The Evil which has possessed these women. Had me in her "TRUST" and then she played her game. Once she knew I'm into her. She made the move. I was very hurtful of even going to Philippines again and browsing through ISG that I came across your post.
Co-incidence & Similarities half way across the world.
1. I met her in dating site.
2. Not of good background but not that bad. Kinda in the middle.
3. I liked her and she was thankful for my gifts.
4. Was planning Live in relationship with her.
5. I think girls have some kinda love sense. Once she sensed I'm totally into her. She made the move. However, as in your post. If she wanted to kill me. She would have had better opportunities. May at that time. She couldn't find where I put my credit card and cash. Or she couldn't size my worth?
6. It did not get violent but she brought one of her friends on that day. It was just pure luck that I only lost money not my life with the stuff they mixed on my drink.
7. They are not too smart, just zombies. If she had been good. She would have anyway made 10 times more and good condo to live.
Your words are different but the trust you had with the women is the same I had built and she broke it. I never thought she would do this to me. BUT I don't know exactly how did she found out. I have reached that level of trust in her before she made the move. I mean it was perfect. I had totally let my guard down around her for few weeks before this happened. And I never do that.
I have been mongering for 15 years now and been single all my life and this is the first time I decided to go long term as frankly I was tired of chasing. I'm getting old nearing 40's and pressure from parents to get married. I thought she is the one after screening 100s of girls during last few years.
I'm honestly scared, paranoid and If I will ever trust any girls that come in contact with me in this line. I will let my parents pick a girl If ever I think of long term relationship. I'm self employed so finding a girl in work is also not possible. But this whole online dating is filled with risk that could cost life itself one day.
I'm fine if I die in car accident or some disease but getting killed by the one you gave your heart is truly tragic.
[QUOTE=Suka Shalava;1493600]I'll repeat the lesson again for anyone reading. If you have any reason at all, not to completely trust someone that you know is not a very good person, don't even give them an opportunity to pull shit. Meet at a cafe, and preferably in the daytime, and spell out some clear warnings, that if they are even thinking about fucking with you, that you will have them chopped up into pieces and then their whole family will be disappeared.[/QUOTE]This is terrible advice. Once you have a bad vibe, cut your losses immediately in EE. What wrong with you man? Making threats in foreign country get you bullet in head.
[QUOTE=Starchild2012;1519972]But this whole online dating is filled with risk that could cost life itself one day. I'm fine if I die in car accident or some disease but getting killed by the one you gave your heart is truly tragic.[/QUOTE]Yes, I'm afraid we are, all of us, fools for love. Fortunately, you are still alive and well to tell us about it.
"I don't like you because I think you are beautiful. I think you are beautiful because I like you..."
Just wanted to share my buddies story. Less than a year ago, my good friend was assigned a temporary job with a financial institution in Moscow. Well, he met Sveta and fell in love. She 23 and him 38. They married quickly and he was able to secure her visa into the US. I told him that he was making a mistake. He reasoned that he had a prestigious job, good finances, and was a healthy attractive male. She would be unlikely to leave that. Well, it was a big mistake and now he feels like a fool. Apparently, his home city is flooded with cheap labor Russian IT guys. All it took was one night out with some Russian girls she had friended on FB. She moved into a condo with Sergei literally three blocks away from where my friend lives. Ball buster of all ball busters.
[QUOTE=Leggio1;1533320]Just wanted to share my buddies story. Less than a year ago, my good friend was assigned a temporary job with a financial institution in Moscow. Well, he met Sveta and fell in love. She 23 and him 38. They married quickly and he was able to secure her visa into the US. I told him that he was making a mistake. He reasoned that he had a prestigious job, good finances, and was a healthy attractive male. She would be unlikely to leave that. Well, it was a big mistake and now he feels like a fool. Apparently, his home city is flooded with cheap labor Russian IT guys. All it took was one night out with some Russian girls she had friended on FB. She moved into a condo with Sergei literally three blocks away from where my friend lives. Ball buster of all ball busters.[/QUOTE]Sadly, this is a very common story.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1534486]Sadly, this is a very common story.[/QUOTE]Very sad and common story. I primarily do on-line sites for finding Slavic women and for instance rarely get response from women who already living in a foreign country especially the West.
These are not super hot women either. Just average 7's that mostly likely I would have no problem dating in their home country. Let's not kid ourselves. Once Russian women come to the West and realize their sexual value. A 20 year difference is not that common anymore in their thinking. LOL
They want the same rights as their "feminist sisters" here. Anybody who thinks otherwise is in for a rude surprise.
Yes, that's an old story. Everybody knows that. But people prefer to live in feelings, drugs and religions instead to face the real world.
However, it is sure that Russian girlfriend would abandon his Western boyfriend sooner or later. That's Moscow. There are no Russian girls like 20 years ago, anymore. That's Western men's fate.
Moreover, we should fight women's power in our Western countries, by changing our personal attitude (no more courtesies and gifts) , our electoral vote, our religious belief: who supports women is against our survival!
[QUOTE=YellowPaul; 1534551]Very sad and common story. I primarily do on-line sites for finding Slavic women and for instance rarely get response from women who already living in a foreign country especially the West.
These are not super hot women either. Just average 7's that mostly likely I would have no problem dating in their home country. Let's not kid ourselves. Once Russian women come to the West and realize their sexual value. A 20 year difference is not that common anymore in their thinking. LOL
They want the same rights as their "feminist sisters" here. Anybody who thinks otherwise is in for a rude surprise.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Leggio1;1533320]She moved into a condo with Sergei literally three blocks away from where my friend lives. Ball buster of all ball busters.[/QUOTE]
It's true, the Slavic female is a variety best enjoyed in its native habitat. In particular, the Post-Soviet variety has a very shallow and fragile root structure which can yield unpredictable results when transplanted outside of its own native soil.
Your friend is actually in an excellent position, almost enviable. Given the circumstances of his marriage, he should not have any problem obtaining a summary, no-fault divorce which will not require him to pay Sveta a dime. His wife has actually helped him in this by, "abandoning the marital abode".
In fact, I have met American men who actually do this kind of thing [i]on purpose[/i]. They are SSMs (Serial Slavic Monogamists). They go to Russia or the Ukraine, find some wide-eyed, innocent young thing and woo her with promises of marriage and life in America. And she, in turn, is grateful to her man in a way that only a slavic woman can be grateful. Then, after they have returned to America, and the fun is over (as it inevitably will be) they dump the sooka and head back for another.
I give Sveta and Sergei 6 months, maybe a year at most. I have known a few Russian women here in the States who tried to hook up with a Russian man and it is always doomed to failure. Of course, there is a natural attraction between them based on their common background: country, culture, language. But, at some point, Sveta will remember all the reasons why she never liked Russian men to begin with and also that there really is no future for her with a Russian man who has nothing more to his name than an H1B visa.
Without a husband, when her temporary Green Card comes up for renewal, her application to adjust her status will certainly be denied. She could try to find another man to marry her, but, given her history, that will be almost impossible to do, now that she is here. She will then be faced with the same question that thousands of other young slavic women have been faced with - do I return to my country? or do I stay here, tough it out and hope for the best? I can tell you very few of them return.
America is full of young women from eastern Europe who came here under similar circumstances. And I tell you my friends, it is a sad sight to see these beautiful young women working so hard, struggling to survive here in America, taking whatever work they can get, relying on the kindness of strangers. [i][b]Some[/b]one[/i] needs to help them, don't they? :D
So, tell your friend to buck up. Extend to him my heartfelt thanks for increasing the stock of desperate young Russian women here in America. And remember, all is not lost and there are better days ahead.
Unless, of course, he still thinks he's "in love". In which case, I'm afraid there is no helping him.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1534570]Your friend is actually in an excellent position, almost enviable. Given the circumstances of his marriage, he should not have any problem obtaining a summary, no-fault divorce which will not require him to pay Sveta a dime. His wife has actually helped him in this by, "abandoning the marital abode".[/QUOTE]Yes, his lawyer immediately filed papers to void the marriage by reason of fraud. Normally, one would try to save a marriage, but in these cases reality hits you hard and it becomes all about how your attorney can get you out of the mess.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1534570]here in the States who tried to hook up with a Russian man and it is always doomed to failure. Of course, there is a natural attraction between them based on their common background: country, culture, language. But, at some point, Sveta will remember all the reasons why she never liked Russian men to begin with and also that there really is no future for her with a Russian man who has nothing more to his name than an H1B visa.[/QUOTE]Hear, hear Strav! Well stated. It's the goofiest phenomenon but it's true. What is crazier still is that I recently met a Russian woman here in Moscow who left Russia in the early 2000's with an American husband. Left him after a couple of years to hook up with a "Sergei" only to dump him as well when she realized why she hooked up with the American in the first place. NOW, here's the strange part. She's BACK in Moscow looking for another American to hook up with! She says that she can't find a man in America because she thinks that American guys in America don't understand her culturally and view her as a gold digger. She thinks she will do better finding an American expat who is here in Russia and looking for a wife. How fucked up is THAT? Half of the Americans are here with their wives and the other half are here to get away from their wives. Hope's spring is eternal!
[QUOTE=Jake993;1534803]Hear, hear Strav! Well stated. It's the goofiest phenomenon but it's true. What is crazier still is that I recently met a Russian woman here in Moscow who left Russia in the early 2000's with an American husband. Left him after a couple of years to hook up with a "Sergei" only to dump him as well when she realized why she hooked up with the American in the first place. NOW, here's the strange part. She's BACK in Moscow looking for another American to hook up with! She says that she can't find a man in America because she thinks that American guys in America don't understand her culturally and view her as a gold digger. She thinks she will do better finding an American expat who is here in Russia and looking for a wife. How fucked up is THAT? Half of the Americans are here with their wives and the other half are here to get away from their wives. Hope's spring is eternal![/QUOTE]That makes perfect sense. Educated Russian women in their thirties are not accepted by American men and women. Exceptions are if they are stunners or have well paying jobs. The Russian IT guys working in US cities are generally young and have no interest in haggards.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1534803]She thinks she will do better finding an American expat who is here in Russia and looking for a wife. How fucked up is THAT? Half of the Americans are here with their wives and the other half are here to get away from their wives. Hope's spring is eternal![/QUOTE]
She may not be as crazy as you think.
I have known many cross cultural marriages here in the States over the years; American man/Russian or Ukrainian woman. Only a very few have lasted, even of the ones that began with truly sincere intentions on both sides. Which is not a condemnation of marriage between American men and Russian/Ukrainian women necessarily, because very few marriages survive in America today, between anyone.
Almost all of these marriages began when an American man traveled to either Russia or the Ukraine to meet his prospective bride (or brides, as the case may be). And they got along fine, as long as they were in her country. I think this is because when the American man is in a foreign country, he is out of his element, so he is not able to exercise his normal predilections or follow his usual habits, and he doesn't look so, well... American. It's not until they marry and return to the States that the problems begin. He doesn't understand why his new bride gets pissed off every time he gives her a dozen roses, instead of 11, or 9. She doesn't understand why all he wants to do on the weekend is plant himself on the sofa with a 6-pack and watch a bunch of grown men chasing a silly ball. Particularly not when he could take her out and spend money on her.
As you say, this Russian woman will have an enormous challenge to find an American expat in Russia who is not already married. But, if she can find one, who is also committed to a long term residency in Moscow, then it may actually work.
I believe you and I have a mutual friend who was in this exact same situation ;)
For myself, I have found that you don't want to be out there fighting, in the thick of the fray. It's better to remain on the sidelines and pick up the pieces. The sadder but wiser girl for me...
Which reminds me, does anyone have Sveta's number here in the States? By my calculations, on August 21st, that poor, dear, sweet young girl will be in desperate need of the kind of comfort and counsel that only a mature, older gentleman can give her.
Ain't I a stinker? :D
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1534924]As you say, this Russian woman will have an enormous challenge to find an American expat in Russia who is not already married. But, if she can find one, who is also committed to a long term residency in Moscow, then it may actually work.[/QUOTE]Ha, ha, ha. That's a good one. As a foreigner, there are a lot of hoops that need to be jumped through in order to get permanent residence status. It's probably MORE difficult for an American man (regardless of professional status) to get permanent residence in Russia than it is for a Russian woman to get a green card. Not that I want permanent residence status, but you get my point.
All kidding aside, your assertion makes sense. I DO find myself (even after 3 years) doing things with and for women here in Moscow that I would NEVER do back in the USA. Not being in one's own element does have an effect on how you behave. Very interesting observation.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1536099]Not that I want permanent residence status, but you get my point.[/QUOTE]There are any number of reasons why an American might want Russian residence status. You might be an American snowboarder who is fed up with the lack of support given to your chosen sport by the U.S. Olympic Committee, so you marry a Russian girl and compete for Russia. Of course, it's never easy, but in Russia, as in the U.S., the quickest and surest path to residency is to marry a citizen.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1536208]Tas in the U.S., the quickest and surest path to residency is to marry a citizen.[/QUOTE]Now you are starting to SCARE me!
Jake,
No worries, I have no intention of going over to the dark side, any more than you do. I'm just pointing out that there are different strokes for different folks.
After all, this guy did end up winning 2 gold medals, so maybe the joke's on us? :o
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1536764]Jake,
No worries, I have no intention of going over to the dark side, any more than you do. I'm just pointing out that there are different strokes for different folks.
After all, this guy did end up winning 2 gold medals, so maybe the joke's on us? .[/QUOTE]Hmmm, let me think. He has two gold medals, a hot wife but lives in Novosibirsk. Damn, that's a tough one. He can probably teach snow boarding for the rest of his life but since his Russian language skills are limited, he's going to have a difficult time getting a coaching job. I dunno man. I hope he's happy.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1534570]It's true, the Slavic female is a variety best enjoyed in its native habitat. In particular, the Post-Soviet variety has a very shallow and fragile root structure which can yield unpredictable results when transplanted outside of its own native soil.[/QUOTE]Thank you Professor Stravinsky, for your scientific observations and analysis of the species 'Devuska ex-Ruskie'.
But it is a very sad story. I would have thought given the age and socio-economics of the gentleman in this case that his chances of success were good.
I guess you can take the girl out of Russia, but cannot take the Russian out of the girl. And here I mean both the longing for cultural connection (understanding her deep Russian soul which can only be penetrated by reading impenetrable Russian literature) , but also the inbred stupid self-destructive behavior. When she is in Russia she longs for a clean, decent American man. When she is in America she hooks up with a Russian guy who is likely to treat her much the same as if they we back in some ghastly apartment flat beyond the ring roads of Moscow.
C'est la vie!
GT
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel; 1537113]When she is in America she hooks up with a Russian guy who is likely to treat her much the same as if they we back in some ghastly apartment flat beyond the ring roads of Moscow.
C'est la vie!
GT[/QUOTE]When my friends relationship soured in America with his Russian bride, the first thing she told him was that he was too nice and how good it felt when someone treated her bad.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1537113]Thank you Professor Stravinsky, for your scientific observations and analysis of the species 'Devuska ex-Ruskie'.[/QUOTE]GT,
Good to hear from you! Strictly speaking I would classify the "Devushka ex Russkii" as a genus, with the "Devushka ex Sovietskii" as more of a species of that genus. Both of which are of the family "Devushka ex Sclavus".
Cherchez la femme
[QUOTE=Jake993;1536900]Hmmm, let me think. He has two gold medals, a hot wife but lives in Novosibirsk. Damn, that's a tough one. He can probably teach snow boarding for the rest of his life but since his Russian language skills are limited, he's going to have a difficult time getting a coaching job. I dunno man. I hope he's happy.[/QUOTE]Novosibirsk? Novosibirsk??? Now [b]you[/b] are scaring [b]me[/b]!
Jake, Jake, Jake, my man, this is not 1954, this is 2014. There is brave new world out there; wake up, open your eyes and smell the coffee.
Half the Russian Olympic hockey team plays for the NHL, which is probably why they lost to the U.S. team. A Russian Olympic athlete who earns 2 gold medals for the glory of the Fatherland does not live in Novosibirsk. He lives in his private apartment in Moscow, together with his Russian wife. He is awarded a position as a captain of industry, which accords him the social and financial status worthy of a Narodi Geroy. He has no need of Russian language skills because his good buddy Vladimir Vladimirovich already speaks English, as well as you or I.
He is living the American dream, he's just doing it in Russia.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1537156]He is living the American dream, he's just doing it in Russia.[/QUOTE]Amen brother. He's not the ONLY one! .
It is almost unbelievable how emotionally starved Russian girls are. It is incredible how just a little bit of attention and appreciation get to them.
I wonder if recent events will revive the desire of FSU women to mate with Western men in order to migrate to the West.
That seemed to be a strong motivator 10 years ago and more, but since then seemed to soften a lot, as women (especially Moscovites) realized that there was no place like home. Even if it was a pretty tough life for a young woman to survive and prosper in Moscow or Kiev, many girls believed that was where they wanted to live, for cultural and family reasons, and there was some trickle down of crumbs from the wealthy.
But now surely girls in Ukraine (and possibly Russia also) must see how fragile their world is?
That they live in dangerous kleptocracies where the autocrats are tightening their grip.
And that personal and financial security cannot be found in Eastern Europe.
So will they turn in droves to 'Russian Bride' and dating sites hunting Western men as a safe harbor?
Is the 'white god factor' coming back?
GT
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1546635]I wonder if recent events will revive the desire of FSU women to mate with Western men in order to migrate to the West.[/QUOTE]Can't imagine why anyone would want to leave Russia, they are sitting on top of the world right now.
Young women in the Ukraine may have more of an incentive to find a life outside of their home country, but the days of the "White God" are gone. It was fun while it lasted, but I think we will never again see the same confluence of events that ended the Soviet Union. At least not in our lifetime.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1547070]Can't imagine why anyone would want to leave Russia, they are sitting on top of the world right now.[/QUOTE]It depends how aware they are of the path the country is on.
Sure, nationalists might be feeling pretty pumped just now, especially men. But young middle class women and even (especially) elitny have reason to worry. The rulers have tightened their fists and freedoms are eroding. Equally importantly, Russia has indulged in a series of expensive adventures the country cannot really afford (Olympics, Crimea and, frankly the whole basic rent-seeking economic structure). This means bad things for social services, education, medical care and exchange rates (for luxury goods).
Women are more interested in bread & butter issues, and less enamored of macho rhetoric.
Still, it would be hard for any Russian to see their country clearly now with the media so heavily controlled.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1547408]It depends how aware they are of the path the country is on.[/QUOTE]And what path would that be???
Your position is well reasoned, but it's the reasoning of a Westerner. Nothing wrong with that, but if you truly want to understand what Russians will do, particularly Russian women, then you need to think like a Russian. They are much more interested in security and stability than nebulous concepts like "Freedom".
Time will tell, but I don't think you will see any kind of mass exodus of Russian women to the West, for them it would be like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. They will be very happy to sacrifice their Jimmy Choo's and D&G for the benefit of the motherland.
Now... if you're talking about giving up their iPhones, then that is cause for a Revolutsia!
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1547469]They are much more interested in security and stability than nebulous concepts like "Freedom".[/QUOTE]Authoritarianism does not necessarily translate into security and stability, just lack of opposition or protest.
Russia's actions are undermining its (and everyone else's) economic security and stability.
There was never any threat to political security and stability in the first place, except from inside Russia itself.
[QUOTE]They will be very happy to sacrifice their Jimmy Choo's and D&G for the benefit of the motherland.
Now. If you're talking about giving up their iPhones, then that is cause for a Revolutsia![/QUOTE]Really, I thought the Jimmy Choo's would be a step too far also!
I was advocating to my government they should focus on a luxury goods import ban.
It would affect only the upper classes, and remind them of the benefits of being "western".
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1547497]Authoritarianism does not necessarily translate into security and stability, just lack of opposition or protest.[/QUOTE]Possibly, but Russia today is significantly more stable and secure under Putin than it was under Yeltsin.
[QUOTE]Russia's actions are undermining its (and everyone else's) economic security and stability.[/QUOTE]Yes, Putin's decision to annex the Crimea will have a serious effect on the Russian economy, but Putin knew this going in, it was a calculated risk on his part and he is willing to pay the price. Unfortunately, the Russian people will also have to pay. If you're interested, the full text of Putin's address of March 18, is posted on kremlin. Ru, in Russian and English. It's a fascinating insight into how he thinks.
How will it effect "everyone else"?
[QUOTE]There was never any threat to political security and stability in the first place, except from inside Russia itself.[/QUOTE]The early 90's were complete and total chaos in the FSU, with threats to security coming from everywhere, inside and out. Without someone like Putin to take control, Russia would probably still be a mess.
But I agree with you, probably the single most effective sanction the West could impose would be a total ban on the export of Apple products to Russia.
[quote=stravinsky; 1547560]possibly, but russia today is significantly more stable and secure under putin than it was under yeltsin.
yes, putin's decision to annex the crimea will have a serious effect on the russian economy, but putin knew this going in, it was a calculated risk on his part and he is willing to pay the price. unfortunately, the russian people will also have to pay. if you're interested, the full text of putin's address of march 18, is posted on kremlin. ru, in russian and english. it's a fascinating insight into how he thinks.
how will it effect "everyone else"?
the early 90's were complete and total chaos in the fsu, with threats to security coming from everywhere, inside and out. without someone like putin to take control, russia would probably still be a mess.
but i agree with you, probably the single most effective sanction the west could impose would be a total ban on the export of apple products to russia.[/quote]by "never" i did not mean never in history, but there was no current threat to russian security.
it will effect "everyone else" because sanctions will hurt everyone economically (although i still am in favour of significant sanction) and will harm the fragile global recovery. europe couldn't really afford to bail itself out (greece, spain, et al) and cannot really afford to prop up a wounded ukraine, but they and a heavily mortgaged us will have to anyway. russia will end up confirep001ing or otherwise stealing western corporate investment. and then there are security issues. this will put an end to cooperation on weapons destruction (which was winding down anyway, but not completed) , and syria and iran, which were tenuous projects at the best of times. and then there are future potential conflicts if the putin doctrine prevails: transdnister, eastern oblasts, territorial disputes in asian waters and not just by russia, this is a valuable doctrine for anyone (like china) to adopt when convenient. and russia's claim to the arctic, if they are not to be bound by international law or norms.
if putin just wanted to secure the crimea, he could have done that politically with very little cost (have them agitate for a real referendum and greater autonomy until they were more aligned with russia than ukraine). the fact that he decided to do it militarily means two things: he wanted to kick sand in our faces (and having found that to be an enjoyable and pain-free experience he is bound to bully again) and he wanted to establish a principle that he back up any claim he has to a greater russia with the force of arms and no international regulation.
other than that it is just a minor domestic issue that is really none of our concern.
omg--i never thought of it that way! what'll we do? what'll we do???
relax gt, the crimea is not the beginning of russian expansion, it is the end.
[quote]by "never" i did not mean never in history, but there was no current threat to russian security.[/quote]
from your perspective, it may seem as if here was no threat, but for putin, there was a very real threat to russian security. russia is essentially a land-locked country, the only warm water port they have is savastopol. yanokovich was putin's man, he was hand-picked by putin to be the president of the ukraine. as long as yanokovich was in control of the ukraine, putin could be sure that the crimea would be within his control. but when yanokovich was kicked out, everything changed. putin could not allow savastopol and the crimea to fall into the hands of the west.
putin will go no further than the crimea, partly because he understands that russia will have its hands full digesting its conquest, but mainly because he understands that if he does, everything will be up for grabs and he could lose the very thing he values most: the crimea.
[quote]europe couldn't really afford to bail itself out (greece, spain, et al) and cannot really afford to prop up a wounded ukraine, but they and a heavily mortgaged us will have to anyway.[/quote]
it's true, the ukraine is a mess. europe can't afford to take on all the responsibility of bailing them out. it's different for the u.s., if we need more money, we can just print it. but money is the least of the worries, the ukraine is so divided right now, it seems to be almost ungovernable and it's the average person who will suffer the most.
[quote]russia will end up confirep001ing or otherwise stealing western corporate investment.[/quote]
putin is not stupid, and he is not a hot-head. he understands the interdepencies of the modern day world. if he nationalizes foreign assets in russia, that will be the end of foreign investment. putin wants to present russia to the world as a modern nation, that's what sochi was all about. he does not want to take it back 40 years into the cold war.
so far, the sanctions have been very high level and very limited. i don't think john boehner gives a toot if he ever gets to visit russia and i doubt if john mccaen has millions of dollars invested in moscow real estate. there will be a lot of tit-for-tat, and then everyone will settle into some kind of workable solution.
so, buck up gt, all is not lost. you may not find as many russian women looking to hook up with western men as you had hoped, but there should be plenty of ukrainian ones. and if you look on the bright side, your russian visa will now get you into the crimea! :)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1547627]OMG-I never thought of it that way! What'll we do? What'll we do?
Relax GT, the Crimea is not the beginning of Russian expansion, it is the end.[/QUOTE]Good analysis Strav. Nicely thought out and presented. Thanks for your opinion.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1547627]Putin is not stupid, and he is not a hot-head. He understands the interdepencies of the modern day world. If he nationalizes foreign assets in Russia, that will be the end of foreign investment. Putin wants to present Russia to the world as a modern nation, that's what Sochi was all about. He does not want to take it back 40 years into the Cold War.[/QUOTE]I hope you are right about that, Strav. And in recognition that this is the "Russian Women" thread and not "Russian Politics", I will drop the subject.
However, this discussion did start with how all this might affect EE women's views of westerners, so let's end it that way also.
[QUOTE]So, buck up GT, all is not lost. You may not find as many Russian women looking to hook up with Western men as you had hoped, but there should be plenty of Ukrainian ones. And if you look on the bright side, your Russian visa will now get you into the Crimea! :)[/QUOTE]And happily it is to the Ukraine that I am headed next, for an extended tour, so I will find out how eager the dyevs there are to cozy up to a western man.
But the Crimea part really pisses me off. I would already be in UA if not for the wrench that threw into the works. Plus I had hoped to visit Crimea (visa-free). Now I don't think they will be letting in a lot of westerners and even if they were, the nationalists there might take exception to mongers taking their women.
[QUOTE=Gentleman Travel;1547850]But the Crimea part really pisses me off. I would already be in UA if not for the wrench that threw into the works. Plus I had hoped to visit Crimea (visa-free). Now I don't think they will be letting in a lot of westerners and even if they were, the nationalists there might take exception to mongers taking their women.[/QUOTE]
OK, gotcha, basically you're just pissed off because Putin screwed up your vacation. Fair enough, you're not the only one. I've already had this same conversation several times with other people in the same situation.
It is interesting how quickly, "Damn Putin fucked up my travel plans", turns into, "We must contain Soviet expansion in the West". ;)
[QUOTE]And happily it is to the Ukraine that I am headed next, for an extended tour, so I will find out how eager the dyevs there are to cozy up to a western man.[/QUOTE]
GT, if you are going to the Ukraine soon, be careful; very careful. Particularly in the eastern Ukraine: Donyetsk, Kharkiv, Dniepopetrovsk, etc. I imagine you are traveling with a Canadian passport, so that may help you. Americans are pretty much persona non grata right now (or is that personae non gratae?).
Remember, in the Chinese language, the character for disaster is also the same as the character for opportunity. If you play your cards right, you could have the time of your life. I envy you, lucky bastard! :)
Jake,
It is interesting how quickly a simple question about where to meet Russian women can turn into a political debate. Russia may be unique, I'm not sure there is any other country like that--politics is just part of the territory. It's been quiet in Russia for so long, we just sort of forgot, but now it's part of the landscape again.
As you so aptly put it: Russia is not for sissies. ;)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1547950]Jake,
It is interesting how quickly a simple question about where to meet Russian women can turn into a political debate. Russia may be unique, I'm not sure there is any other country like that-politics is just part of the territory. It's been quiet in Russia for so long, we just sort of forgot, but now it's part of the landscape again.
As you so aptly put it: Russia is not for sissies. .[/QUOTE]The saga continues.
I had coffee with the GF on Wednesday and she corrected my initial impression.
In fact there probably WAS a plan to post formal notices on the street informing motorists that this section of the street was going to be converted to a "no parking zone". What probably happened was that the guy in charge of posting the notices made a deal with the guy who ran the tow truck and impound lot to accidentally on purpose FORGET to post the notices so that they could catch everyone unawares and hence shake down all of the car owners more effectively. Got to love the new style of corruption in Moscow.
And since is the "Russian Women" thread, I suppose I am obligated to say that after we had coffee, we went back to my place and screwed like rabbits. ;)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1547946]OK, gotcha, basically you're just pissed off because Putin screwed up your vacation. Fair enough, you're not the only one. I've already had this same conversation several times with other people in the same situation.
It is interesting how quickly,"Damn Putin fucked up my travel plans", turns into,"We must contain Soviet expansion in the West". .[/QUOTE]Actually Strav, my foreign policy views are slightly more principled than that.
Despite the hiccup in my own travel plans, I believe this "Cold War Redux", and all of Putin's domestic thuggery, are actually very good for mongering. Keeps out the tourists and faint-hearted. Despite these obvious and very material benefits, I still oppose it on humanitarian and global security grounds!
[QUOTE]GT, if you are going to the Ukraine soon, be careful; very careful. Particularly in the eastern Ukraine: Donyetsk, Kharkiv, Dniepopetrovsk, etc. I imagine you are traveling with a Canadian passport, so that may help you. Americans are pretty much persona non grata right now (or is that personae non gratae?).[/QUOTE]Since those cities, along with Luhansk, are fairly likely destinations for me, I will keep your travel advisory in mind. As for my passport, I'm not sure drunken gopniks always check before they pound the crap out of you. It's only when they rob me afterwards they will discover the error of their ways, having mistook an inoffensive advocate of "Peace, Order and Good Government" for an imperialist Yankee warmonger. Won't they feel silly then?
[QUOTE=Jake993;1547709]Good analysis Strav. Nicely thought out and presented. Thanks for your opinion.[/QUOTE]Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking.
I've been reading reams of material on this subject for weeks now and Strav's concise analysis is one of the best summaries I've come across.
Those of us with an understanding of the Russian mindset and observing this part of the world from week to week, over a period of years - rather than just reacting to events, forming an opinion and then moving on to the next act of the global political circus - will not have been too surprised by Putin's annexation of Crimea.
Like Strav, I believe this is a 'stand-alone' intrusion but I would qualify it by saying that Putin will give the West or any other potential protagonists as much war as they want in this part of the world, or 'near abroad' as he terms it. Russian nationalism is an atavistic impulse and not one mediated by the financial effect on their collective pocket.
On the subject of the all-important White God Factor (sorry Vladimir Vladimirovich, not you this time!), I'd venture to say it is still alive to some degree in rural and provincial Ukraine.
Unlike Russians, a huge amount of young Ukrainians while loving their country (they're still Slavs!) recognise that it is a 'failed state' and know they may need to seek a secure future elsewhere.
This constitutes a certain part of the movement at Maiden last winter as youngsters want to have the freedom to migrate and are not necessarily thinking of EU membership miraculously elevating Ukraine to western levels of prosperity. They just want the freedom to get out.
Which would be fine for them but no good for Europe as Ukraine as a commercial entity is unsalvageable, in my opinion.
Anyway, it looks like I may soon have the opportunity to research my theories first-hand as a return to the +3 hours time zone beckons! :)
[QUOTE=Gergiev;1548803]Anyway, it looks like I may soon have the opportunity to research my theories first-hand as a return to the +3 hours time zone beckons! :)[/QUOTE]G,
Good to hear from you! Glad to know that you will be back-in-the-saddle again. Let us know what you find in the +3 hour time zone. Myself, I think the train ride from Moscow to Simferopl would be an interesting trip. Probably the best 2,500 руб. you will ever spend. ;)
i've been thinking about the "white god" factor recently as it applies to russia. i have been to rural philippines and have seen what i suspect was some real white good factor as it applies to a search for sex. it is unbelievably easy to pick up a philipino girl for just a night of fun. and beyond that, many of them are a lot of fun to be with. if i like the look more, i would certainly spend more time there than i have.
but what of this factor in russia and ukraine. jake suggested that it might still be alive in rural ukraine, but what of the rest of our area of interest?
let's look at some of what i consider facts:
1. slavic girls for whatever reason (cultural norms, security, money, etc.) seem less concerned about age difference. while it may not be as common in the past, russian and ukrainian girls will still consider a man 15-20 years (or even more) their senior as viable mating partners and nobody seems to think it unusual to see young girls with older men.
2. putting aside racism which certainly plays a factor, girls all over the world find foreigners intriguing or exotic. each girl has their own reason, but it is an icebreaking factor and maybe even a getting into the bedroom factor. both in togliati and in samara i met girls that had never met an american before and these are cities with a fairly big foreign presence. it was the basis to easily start and continue a conversation.
3. western men have a reputation for treating their women well-materially and inter-personally. obviously this can be problematic, but it can be worked to our benefit for sure.
4. there are still plenty of girls in russia and ukraine that are scraping by on $300 or less per month.
5. almost all girls know someone or at least know of someone that that has immigrated to the west and is living a better life.
to me it seems russian nationalism is a positive thing for the man looking for sex but not looking for a wife. i think for all the reasons they did before, you can find a girl that will have sex with you, but at the same time these nationalist girls that love mother russia are less likely to push for marriage. this seems especially true with the younger girls.
clearly there are a lot more factors involved and i could write all day about this, but opportunity still exists in russia (and ukraine, for now). on wednesday i am headed back to russia for my 6th trip in less than 12 months. i am happy if the current political climate keeps people away. nobody has ever accused me of being a sissy. the more i learn, the better it gets. i just need to be more disciplined in practicing my russian language.
Any of you who have spend any time in Russia will recognize this phenomenon fondly.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1549557]Any of you who have spend any time in Russia will recognize this phenomenon fondly.[/QUOTE]I mentioned in a recent post how pleased I was to find normal, even relatively conservative girls wearing thigh-highs as part of their normal wardrobe. It is so unusual in the West. I love it.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1549618]I mentioned in a recent post how pleased I was to find normal, even relatively conservative girls wearing thigh-highs as part of their normal wardrobe. It is so unusual in the West. I love it.[/QUOTE]Actually Yummy, this is a thong which has been washed out and hung to dry on the hot water pipe in my bathroom. This is a classic technique of Russian girls who attend a sleep-over. In fact, however, this particular girl DOES wear thigh high stockings!
[QUOTE=Jake993;1549953]Actually Yummy, this is a thong which has been washed out and hung to dry on the hot water pipe in my bathroom. This is a classic technique of Russian girls who attend a sleep-over. In fact, however, this particular girl DOES wear thigh high stockings![/QUOTE]Ahhh. Makes sense. Looking at pictures on the iPhone is sometimes deceptive. I knew it was a bathroom pipe. I do think it is interesting that having hot water pipes set up as towel racks is so common (and ingenious) in Russia but basically non-existent in the USA even in houses with radiator heat.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1547627]Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep...
OMG-I never thought of it that way! What'll we do? What'll we do?
Relax GT, the Crimea is not the beginning of Russian expansion, it is the end.
Putin will go no further than the Crimea, partly because he understands that Russia will have its hands full digesting its conquest, but mainly because he understands that if he does, everything will be up for grabs and he could lose the very thing he values most: the Crimea.
[...]Putin is not stupid, and he is not a hot-head. He understands the interdepencies of the modern day world. If he nationalizes foreign assets in Russia, that will be the end of foreign investment. Putin wants to present Russia to the world as a modern nation, that's what Sochi was all about. He does not want to take it back 40 years into the Cold War.[/QUOTE][QUOTE=Gentleman Travel].And then there are future potential conflicts if the Putin Doctrine prevails: Transdnister, Eastern Oblasts, territorial disputes in Asian waters and not just by Russia, this is a valuable doctrine for anyone (like China) to adopt when convenient. And Russia's claim to the Arctic, if they are not to be bound by international law or norms.[/QUOTE]Stravinksy, I bow to your superior knowledge about Russian language and culture, but I hope you are not advising Mr. Obama on geo-politics.
Putin has the Eastern Oblasts simmering nicely now and may come to a full boil at any time. Whether he intends to turn up the heat more in Transdnister or not is unclear; he will probably just keep that simmering.
If he wanted to just keep Crimea, he would be making nice now. But as a minimum he wants to cripple the UA government and create grief for the West. More likely he wants to take over the eastern oblasts, whether by force or (more likely) by stealth.
But it is far from over.
[quote=gentleman travel;1555505]but it is far from over.[/quote]gt,
i think it is significant that jackson has waived his long standing ban on political discussions and allowed someone to create a thread in the ukraine forum for "ukraine politics". even jackson understands that you can't meet women for sex in the ukraine without understanding the politics.
i have no superior knowledge--all i know is what i read in the papers. is the ukraine a wildcard? absolutely. no one has any special understanding of the situation there and no one can predict what will happen. what is happening there is tragic. you are talking about a land with cultural, social and linguistic differences that have existed for centuries. in this environment, i don't think putin needs to do much of anything. all he has to do is stand by and let it happen.
it should be pointed out that putin has not actually traveled to the ukraine and stood up in front of its people and advocated for revolution, as john mccain did. this was irresponsible and reprehensible. but then, he's an american and we americans can't resist a good revolution. we like to go in with our six-shooters drawn, guns blazing and sort it all out after the smoke has cleared. we then return to the comfort of our lives and let someone else clean up the mess.
so, neither side is free from blame.
yatsenyuk has proposed a referendum, during the election in may, to allow the people in eastern ukraine to decide if they want to be a part of russia or ukraine. so, the borders may in fact be re-drawn, hopefully without a shot.
but, back to your concern about containing soviet expansion in the west...
could putin decide to send russian troops and tanks across the border of eastern ukraine? yes, of course, that is his decision to make. but this would be a de facto declaration of war; not only against ukraine, but also against europe, and that would unleash a completely new set of circumstances that even putin could not predict or control. and there is nothing more important to putin than being in control.
instead of speculating, i urge you again to read putin's speech of march 18th. normally putin keeps his cards pretty close to his vest, but in this speech he lays it all out there on the table. of course, there is a lot of bs and double talk, just as there is when any political world leader speaks, but there are also some excellent insights into how he thinks and what motivates him.
this is the link: [url]eng.kremlin.ru/news/6889[/url]
the situation in ukraine is truly tragic, but i have to confess, all this hand-wringing over transdnistria is simply laughable. it is a tiny little sliver of land sandwiched between moldova and ukraine. there is absolutely nothing there that putin could want, aside from the ethnic russians and maybe the kvint factory (which makes excellent cognac-btw). it's only hope is to become a kind of disney-style theme park for the soviet union. bring the family, thrill to the harassment and insults of the border guards as they pick through your documenti, marvel at the accurate reproduction of a genuine third-world culture from days gone by, have your picture taken in front of lenin's statue, ride in a t34 and buy a bottle of kvint, before boarding your luxurious marshrut and chugging back to chisinau.
where do i sign up!!
the moscow times has an excellent article here: [url]http://www.themoscowtimes.com/beyond_moscow/tiraspol.html?sphrase_id=4430803[/url]
no one can predict what will happen in ukraine, but i guarantee you: absolutely, positively, cross-my-heart-and-hope-to-die, putin will not annex transdnistria.
what i cannot guarantee is that merkel won't decide to annex kaliningrad. :d
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1555605]The situation in Ukraine is truly tragic, but I have to confess, all this hand-wringing over Transdnistria is simply laughable.[/QUOTE]I have to agree with Strav on tis one. Transdnistra to Putin is like your mother's half brother who shows up unannounced for Thanksgiving every three years. You don't dare invite him because he's an embarrassment, but if you tell him to "fuck off" you look like an asshole front of the rest of your family. So you shrug your shoulders, set another plate and welcome him in hoping that he just go away.
My Moscow land-lady (a very sophisticated entrepreneur) came by yesterday so that I could re-sign the lease on my flat. Yeeees, I am going to stay in Moscow for another year (sigh) and she could not HELP but ask me what I thought of what's happening in Ukraine. I gave the usual perfunctory "tap dance" around the subject and while she was initialing all 45 pages of the agreement, I asked her what SHE thought. She put down her pen, gave me a stern look and said,
"I'm glad that I Crimea is part of Russia again. As a child I spent every summer in Crimea and I have not been back since 1991. This summer I will go back to Crimea and I hope to buy a flat there before prices get too high. But I think that if one Russian soldier sets foot in "Ukraine proper", Mr Putin will be making a serious mistake that will threaten all that we have struggled to achieve over the past 20 years".
This woman is not part of the Russian elite. She is part of the small (but growing) middle class that were well educated during Soviet times. They work hard, stay out of politics, pay their taxes and try to make a better life. She and her husband are nice people, both fluent in English who take calculated business risks and understand how Western business works. Just when I think Russia can't get any more fucked up, I think of my land-lady and realize that maybe there's hope for Russia yet.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1555796]I have to agree with Strav on tis one.[/QUOTE]Yes, another excellent contribution from Comrade Strav.
Not sure that referendum will offer the option of the eastern provinces transferring to Russia; greater autonomy is the more likely question, I would say.
[QUOTE=Gergiev;1556610]Not sure that referendum will offer the option of the eastern provinces transferring to Russia; greater autonomy is the more likely question, I would say.[/QUOTE]G,
I agree. Vladimir Vladimirovich was uncharacteristically "warm and fuzzy" during his telethon last week. He is obviously feeling very full of himself and can afford to be generous.
It was a major mistake for the new government in Kiev to allow itself to be coerced by the nationalists into the position of declaring Ukrainian the only official language. Yetsenyuk has taken every opportunity to make it clear that anyone in the Ukraine my speak any language they want. Apparently his wife is Russian and they speak Russian at home.
It's fascinating how elemental language can be to a person's identity. If cooler heads will prevail and the government in Kiev will allow Russians to live like Russians, then that may be the salvation of the Ukraine.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1556649]It's fascinating how elemental language can be to a person's identity. If cooler heads will prevail and the government in Kiev will allow Russians to live like Russians, then that may be the salvation of the Ukraine.[/QUOTE]I agree. We live with this in Canada. Whenever the government of Quebec is in trouble they pick a fight over English language rights (I. E. Suppressing them). We (the Rest Of Canada) could put up with all the rest of their bullshit (socialism, nationalism, corruption, incompetence, economic suicide) but creating phony linguistic wars really gets us angry!
This also ties into something else Jake (I think) was saying. It used to be that everyone seemed to speak Russian in Ukraine, it wasn't until my fourth visit in 2010 that I came across a situation where Ukrainian was dominant. And now I find that my feeble attempts to speak Russian are not necessarily welcome,"Why don't you speak Ukrainian?" But who wants to invest time and energy into learning a niche language like that?
I understand the reaction of Ukrainians who feel their language and culture were suppressed for so many years, and their desire to be Ukrainian, not wannabe-Russians. But seriously, if a large fraction of your population already speaks (some) Russian, don't turn your back on that. Again, to go back to the Canadian example, it is like the government making sure that French in the dominant (or exclusive) language in business and school. Sure it makes you feel good in a nationalistic sense, but all those people would be a lot better off in life if they learned more English. Of course, all the elites speak English, but are happy to keep the peasants prisoners of their language.
[QUOTE=Suka Shalava; 1493221]Monger fends off attempted murder / robbery perpetrated by vicious bloodthirsty bandit tramps and their gang of hooligans![/QUOTE]Wow, that was a hell of a dangerous situation. You are lucky that they just have a spray with them. There are some soft weapons (or or white weapons or whatever is called) which uses an kind of gas to blind the opponent for few moments, similar to Pepper but kind of more effective.
I am also a foreigner living in Russia, but thanks god I never caught myself in a similar situation. Of course I am cautious and use my common sense, but we can never know what will come out of a devushka, so basically I was lucky until now.
So what happened afterwards, did you report them to the cops? Anyways be careful, some people doesn't accept defeat for long time and someday seek vendetta.
San
[QUOTE=Stravinsky; 1556649]It was a major mistake for the new government in Kiev to allow itself to be coerced by the nationalists into the position of declaring Ukrainian the only official language. Yetsenyuk has taken every opportunity to make it clear that anyone in the Ukraine my speak any language they want. Apparently his wife is Russian and they speak Russian at home.
It's fascinating how elemental language can be to a person's identity. If cooler heads will prevail and the government in Kiev will allow Russians to live like Russians, then that may be the salvation of the Ukraine.[/QUOTE]Strav, it was a dreadful and indeed almost juvenile error. At least acting president Turchinov had the good sense to veto that language law a day or two later.
The Russian language in the east of Ukraine is no guarantee of ethnicity as approximately 50% of those speakers would consider themselves Ukrainian.
[QUOTE=Gergiev; 1562434]Strav, it was a dreadful and indeed almost juvenile error. At least acting president Turchinov had the good sense to veto that language law a day or two later.
The Russian language in the east of Ukraine is no guarantee of ethnicity as approximately 50% of those speakers would consider themselves Ukrainian.[/QUOTE]Wow. This is an issue that seems to be getting less and less clear with each passing day.
Are telling us that just because a person who lives and the eastern part of Ukraine speaks Russian as his (or her) primary language, it does not necessarily mean that he considers himself Russian?
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1563328]Wow. This is an issue that seems to be getting less and less clear with each passing day.
Are telling us that just because a person who lives and the eastern part of Ukraine speaks Russian as his (or her) primary language, it does not necessarily mean that he considers himself Russian?[/QUOTE]Jake, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. Apparently several reports and formal polls show that a (small) majority of Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine see themselves as Ukrainian and support a unified Ukraine. This is not to say they don't prefer ties with Russia over ties with Europe, just that they support the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Of course there are many conflicting reports.
[QUOTE=Gergiev; 1562434]Strav, it was a dreadful and indeed almost juvenile error. At least acting president Turchinov had the good sense to veto that language law a day or two later.[/QUOTE]No it was not an error. People in Western Ukraine have been demanding that Ukrainian be the only official language for years. They slogans are "One language, one nation, one country" and "hang the Russians". See here.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go4Wwjuzm-s[/url]
[QUOTE=YummyPL; 1563503]Jake, I can't tell if you are being sarcastic. Apparently several reports and formal polls show that a (small) majority of Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine see themselves as Ukrainian and support a unified Ukraine. This is not to say they don't prefer ties with Russia over ties with Europe, just that they support the sovereignty of Ukraine.
Of course there are many conflicting reports.[/QUOTE]Yummy,
I am only being a little sarcastic. I just assumed that the native Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine would, if given the chance, gravitate towards Russia and vote for separation from the rest of Ukraine and perhaps union with Russia. I think what Gergiev is saying is that many native Russian speakers who were born and live now in Ukraine would actually FAVOR staying as part of Ukraine. I find this a little surprising.
[QUOTE=Bimbo Boy; 1563680]No it was not an error. People in Western Ukraine have been demanding that Ukrainian be the only official language for years. They slogans are "One language, one nation, one country" and "hang the Russians". See here.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Go4Wwjuzm-s[/url][/QUOTE]Sorry to disagree with you BB, but it WAS a rookie mistake. Unless of course, President Turchinov was deliberately trying to provoke a civil war and invite Russia to come and protect the linguistic freedom of Russian speakers. By attempting to pass this law, he drove wedge between hardline Ukrainian nationalists in the West and the Russian speakers in the East. This issue is a tinderbox that has been sitting near an open flame for many years. IMHO if he was the least bit interested in national unity, he would have steered clear of this contentious issue.
I AGREE with you that a very large percentage of Western Ukrainians never want to hear the Russian language spoken in Ukraine again. That is quite clear. But as a national leader, Turchinov fucked this one up. Mind you, he may not have had a choice in the matter and was forced to support a wave of anti-Russian sentiment. Who knows? But I am afraid that the situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1563801]I am only being a little sarcastic. I just assumed that the native Russian speakers in Eastern Ukraine would, if given the chance, gravitate towards Russia and vote for separation from the rest of Ukraine and perhaps union with Russia. I think what Gergiev is saying is that many native Russian speakers who were born and live now in Ukraine would actually FAVOR staying as part of Ukraine. I find this a little surprising.[/QUOTE]That's about the gist of it, Jake. Don't forget that language is not always the badge of ethnicity, in the same sense that in the north of Ireland both nationalities there speak English but, of course, the majority of one side consider themselves Irish and want to break the union with England.
Likewise in Ukraine, approx half of the Russian speaking population consider themselves Ukrainian and also give their allegiance to the Kiev Patriarchy of the Orthodox Church, while the Russians cleave to the Moscow Patriarchy, so closely aligned now with Putin. If you recall last month, then you had both Patriarchs preaching on the opposing sides of the Crimean developments.
Also, don't forget that in the original 1991 referendum, over 90% voted for Ukrainian independence and not just along crude 'language lines'...
[QUOTE=Jake993; 1563804]Sorry to disagree with you BB, but it WAS a rookie mistake. Unless of course, President Turchinov was deliberately trying to provoke a civil war and invite Russia to come and protect the linguistic freedom of Russian speakers. By attempting to pass this law, he drove wedge between hardline Ukrainian nationalists in the West and the Russian speakers in the East. This issue is a tinderbox that has been sitting near an open flame for many years. IMHO if he was the least bit interested in national unity, he would have steered clear of this contentious issue.
I AGREE with you that a very large percentage of Western Ukrainians never want to hear the Russian language spoken in Ukraine again. That is quite clear. But as a national leader, Turchinov fucked this one up. Mind you, he may not have had a choice in the matter and was forced to support a wave of anti-Russian sentiment. Who knows? But I am afraid that the situation is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.[/QUOTE]Jake, I agree with the overall point you're making but I think you've slightly misread the detail. It was the new government that passed that law but Turchinov used his presidential powers to veto it, literally a day or two later.
I think BB's difference with me is a language issue in the sense that he thinks that I mean that they just made this decision erroneously rather than deliberately...
[QUOTE=SukaShalava;1493221] Fortunately for me, their gang was still waiting downstairs, thinking that the pepper spray would be enough to subdue me. [/QUOTE]This is very strange. One person can be that stupid to think she or he can knock a adult guy down with a shot of spray, ok. But this was a GROUP of people as you describe, somebody at last one there must have known that it is impossible for a female or even two to subdue a normal built (doesn't have to be strong) man with just a spray in the hand. This is at least stupid in a collective. Even more interesting is the fact that the same event happened a while ago in Kiew with another post. Something is weird here.
Im going to ask everyone about a situation and I would appreciate feedback from people that have experience here.
I now have what I consider a real girlfriend in Moscow. I call her Ariel as her name is unusual and I dont want anyone connecting this report with her. So much so that I am not really exploring options for new girls and am doing minimal work to maintain old girls. So the last two times I was Moscow (in May and this past weekend) my girlfriend stayed with me in my apartment for the whole trip (8 nights and 2 nights, respectively). On both trips, we invited her friend Ksusha to stay with us for the night on one of the nights and went out to a activity called Клаустрофобия before returning to the apartment. For my taste, except being tally than I like, Ksusha is a knockout. I love her look.Fantastic body and lovely face. For my personal taste, she is a solid 8.
When we were out together, and when we were at the apartment together before sleeping, Ksusha was friendly, a little flirty, and very nice. She smiled a lot and seemed to be enjoying herself. There was alittle sexual talk but it was just talk and there was zero physical contact of sexual or even flirty nature during either evenings (she didnt put her hand on my knee or touch my arm while talking or any of that standard flirty stuff. We sat next to each other a couple of times so there was contact then). So that was our interaction.
Now a note about me. I personally have 2 strong fetishes, with an additional ancillary fetish that goes along with one of the others. My first fetish is a girls tummy. I love a bare tummy and low rise jeans and a cropped shirt is about as sexy as anything can be to me if the girl has a thin, flat tummy. My other fetish is panties with the ancillary fetish of a girl wearing MY tshirt and her panties. Although I have never talked about them explicitly, Ariel has to be very aware of both of these fetishes. I have given her a dozen pairs of panties and I pay a LOT of attention to her tummy especially when she is wearing clothes. Ariel is very smart so I cant imagine she has not noted this.
Now I find it hard to believe that Ariel coordinated Ksushas wardrobe, but both times Ksusha wore something that is exactly my taste. She wore low rise jeans and a top that basically exposed her exquisite tummy the entire time we were out together. If she were showing cleavage, or had a short skirt on, I would have easily been able to enjoy it without having problems with staring or anything, but her exposed tummy was very difficult for me to ignore. Despite my arousal, I managed to contain my composure most of the time we were out.
Back in May Ksusha arrived at the apartment at around 22:00 and we sat around a table playing a board game until about 00:30 when we went to get food then went to the Клаустрофобия activity. We got back to the apartment about 04:00 and got ready for bed. Despite Ksusha already wearing a tank-top that I thing should have been fine for sleeping, Asya asked if I had a tshirt for her. OF COURSEI had a tshirt she could wear. The tshirt I chose for her was my Sublime tshirt which is old and very thin. I handed Ksusha the shirt and she went off to her bedroom not to be seen again (the apartment has a small second bedroom I had prepared for her). Ariel and I went off to our room which was right next door. When we got in the room we practically ripped off our clothes and started having sex. Ariel was her normal very vocal self. I can only think that Ksusha heard everything of our hour+ session.
Ariel and I woke up around noon and after coffee, she went to take a shower. Moments after she closed the bathroom door, Ksusha appeared in, guess what, my tshirt and no pants. I assumed she was wearing panties but the tshirt was long enough that it covered them. Ksushas legs looked great, and the tshirt was showing off her body very nicely.
I asked Ksusha if she wanted coffee, she said yess, and she came in the room to talk to me. I was wearing a tshirt and jeans so I was fully covered. We sat on the couch, and instead of sitting very lady like, she sat indian style on the couch facing me which gave me an excellent view of her braless breasts in my thin tshirt and also gave me an excellent view of the crtch of her very skimpy panties. She also shifted several times and gave me better views. She stood up and walked around and gave me a great view of her ass. I was in voyeur heaven, but I maintained my composure and did not give any overt indication that she was doing anything to me.
When the shower stopped (it was a long shower), Ksusha disappeared and apparently went into the bathroom, because soon after that Ariel came out and I heard the shower running again. Ariel was just wearing a towel and we fooled around some until the shower stooped and then Ariel went to get dressed. Not long both girls came out fully dressed and soon after they left because Ariel had to go to work. That is the end of Ksusha part 1.
The next day Ariel and I were talking. We had been planning a trip to Bali together. I was showing her pictures of the place we were staying and it was big and had 5+ beds. I was thinking that it would be fun to have sex all over this place, but Ariel came up with the idea of inviting Ksusha. I wasnt sure about it, but I was open to it. Ariel asked how much it would be for Ksusha. I told her that I would pay for everything for food, accommodations, and entertainment, and that Ksusha would only need to get her airline ticket and could get whatever she wanted with that. Ariel thought that was great. So with this, it is clear to me that Ariel is comfortable with Ksusha and me, but based on what had happened with Ksusha, I had zero clear indication whether anything sexual would occur. I thought the only thing I could count on for sure was that there would be friendly eye-candy running around.
In any case, cutting out the details, Ksusha did not end up going to Bali with us, but when I returned to Moscow dfor the weekend, we again invited Ksusha over for the night to go to do Клаустрофобия. Ksusha said she would arrive at the apartment around 21:00. Ariel said it was more likely she would show up around 23:00 so wanted to watch a movie in bed while we waited for her. So Ariel and I are in bed, Im in my tshirt and boxers and Ariel in my tshirt and her panties watching the movie on the TV and DVD player in the room (Butterfly Effect in English with Russian subs). Ariel seemed shocked that around 21:00 (30 minutes into the movie), Ksusha sernt a SMS saying she had arrived.
So Ariel ran downstairs (1 flight, the owner had not given us the door code) without putting pants on and brought Ksusha upstairs. They talked some in Russian (I understood almost none of it) but Ariel said she wanted to finish the movie. So Ksusha took off her pants and joined us in bed. I was on one side of the bed and Ariel was in the middle with Ksusha on the far side. For most of the movie Ariel was laying against my chest and I had my arms around her with the occasional sexual touching. There was almost no contact with Ksusha during the movie, but it was nice knowing she was in bed next to us.
So when we get out of bed, Ksusha puts her pants on immediately, and I followed her lead and put my jeans on but Ariel stayed in my tshirt and her panties.
We hung around the apartment some, ate food, did some Russian language practice (mostly swear words and slang), and then at 01:30 we went to our activity. We got back home around 04:00. This was a different apartment from last time and theer was no second bedroom. Ksusha was set to sleep on the couch. Again Ariel asked if Ksusha could use one of my tshirts and I said of course. I actually had the same Sublime tshirt she wore the previous month, and brought that to her. She asked me if that was going to be her tshirt, and I said something like no, I just liked it better after she wore it. She gave me the biggest smile.
In any case, she still had her jeans on but instead of waiting or going into the other room, she turned her back to me and Ariel, she took her own shirt and bra off, and put my tshirt on. She then took her jeans off. It seemed very erotic to me. Only after she changed clothes did she walk into the bathroom. She could have easily changed clothes in there. While Ksusha was in the bathroom, Ariel and I headed off to the bedroom, and again had a very nice session of very vocal sex.
Around 11:00 in the morning Ariel and I went to the living room and Ksusha was still asleep. We woke her up by Ariel pouncing on her. I was wearing my tshirt and boxers and Ariel was wearing my tshirt and some very skimpy and VERY sheer panties I had given her. Ksusha woke up and stayed in my Tshirt and her (also quite skimpy) panties. We had coffee and Ariel made us breakfast. Both girls looked great but neither was being particularly flirty with me. They had a converstation in Russian that I hardly understood any of but after the conversation Ksusha went to the bathroom. Ariel told me she had an appointment at 14:00 and so had to go soon for a couple of hours and that Ksusha was going for a massage so would leave at the same time. At that point Ksusha returned from the bathroom wearing only her own tanktop which was white and tight fitting and no bra, and her panties. Her body was devine and what she wore left very little to the imagination.
I am observing the situation sitting on the couch drinking coffee. The girls talked more in Russian and then Ksusha started doing some yoga-like exercises. Ariel then left the room to take a shower. So I am sitting on the couch and Ksusha is talking to me while wearing very little and bending and stretching and spreading her legs and showing me pretty much everything she could without actually getting naked. I am very casual about it all and dont get off the couch and dont comment on her activities. I am sitting there in my boxers with an absolute raging hard-on and I cant get rid of it, and I cant stand up. It was a mix of heaven and torture. Not long later Ariel completed her shower and moments later came back in the room wearing just a towel. Ksusha does not stiop her exercising and Ariel joins her for a few stretches and bends exposing her bare ass and pussy repeatedly. Afeter a while she comes over and sits on my lap and starts to laught when she finds my state of arousal. She says a few things to Ksusha and then just sits on my lap with her arms around me with a big smile while Ksusha finishes up her exercises.
When Ksusha is done, she goes off to the shower and Ariel and I play a bit until the shower stops. After her shower, Ksusha comes back in the room briefly wrapped in just a towel and then goes back to the bathroom. Ariel and I go to get dressed (I said I would shower when they left) and when we went back out Ksusha was already dressed. Not long after, both girls left. A couple of hours later, Ariel returned to me and we went immediately to the bedroom for some sex. Afterward we just rested in each others arms for a couple of hours until it was time for me to leave. We walked to a restaurant, had a late lunch, then she drove me to the aeroexpress and I was gone.
In my three previous experiences with Russian girls inviting over their girlfriends, it was obvious to me that it was both expected and invited for me to be both verbally and physically flirtatyious with the girlfriends. All the other relationships I had were super casual and I dont think the girls really thought of me as their serious boyfriend. Diana invited over Katya and later Katya and I hooked up. Katya invited over Nadya, we had significant physical flirting and later Nadya and I hooked up. Kori invited over Sveta and overtly suggested I start seeing Sveta and basically invited me to be physically flirtatious with her.
In this case, Ariel and I have become more serious. Ariel says she loves me and I believe she at least thinks she does. I am also pretty smitten with Ariel and have strong feelings for her. There is certainly no overt suggestion I should be physically flirtatious with Ksusha and certainly no invitation to start seeing her. As far as I know, Ksusha and Ariel do not have a history of sharing sexual activity with a man (3-way). I also note that Ksushas most provocative actions are when Ariel is not in the room.
So here is my question. I see 3 different possibilities here.
1. This is just a normal and natural way for these Russian girls to act. Getting practically naked in front of a best friends boyfriend the night you meet is cool, and they dont see it as provocative or problematic at all.
2. Ksusha (or both girls) is testing me to see if I will make a move on her so that she will know if her best friends boyfriend is only out for sex or is true to her and as a way to protect Ariel.
3. Ksusha is actually interested in me in some form.
I am curious to know based on what I have said here what you guys think is going on. And please dont just say Id fuck Ksusha.
For those interested in a reference I included a picture of Ksusha.
[QUOTE=SanGaetano;1584849]This is very strange. One person can be that stupid to think she or he can knock a adult guy down with a shot of spray, ok. But this was a GROUP of people as you describe, somebody at last one there must have known that it is impossible for a female or even two to subdue a normal built (doesn't have to be strong) man with just a spray in the hand. This is at least stupid in a collective. Even more interesting is the fact that the same event happened a while ago in Kiew with another post. Something is weird here.[/QUOTE]What WAS the similar post in the Kiev thread? I would very much like to read that!
That some bandit-gang puttanas in another Russian city tried the same plan? Well, you can bet they're proud enough to post their 'How to Roll a Mark' videos on YouTube.
You're also forgetting, or did not understand a few key points of what went down. I had already known Tanya for TWO years, sat in my place drinking 5 or 6 times before, and she was always cool. Yes, I knew about her being gang-connected. But I've had other girlfriends like that before, where I live, and I never got rolled by any of them. One afternoon I was at work, two wasted hoes came to my building to blow me, when they saw I wasn't home they got mad and spray painted "FUCK-SHIT-BIX# in the laundry room, HAHA! Though, now that I think about it, if there was ever a crime scene on the news here about a tourist-robbery-gone-wrong-turned-grisly-murder, it was always some fool foreigner! Guess I needed to be taught a hard fucking lesson, because all I ever really watched out for was hoes trying to put roofies in my drink glass.
Tanya's plan was really counting on the element of surprise, and it almost worked. When I say almost, I really mean that it was as close as it could get. It must have been the first time they tried this. The "shot" of spray you imagine, was not a like a small stream or jet, it was really a giant fucking cloud. It was SO much, and because she blasted me from point blank and right at the small space of the doorway, it looked like half of the cloud blew right back in HER face.
The plan was for Tanya to confuse me, keeping me busy JUST long enough so her girlfriend could grab my key out of the lock. The first part DID work. I don't think in all my life I have ever been THAT confused, in that moment when she pressed the valve to blast the gas in my face. At the same moment in my brain, I did not know what happened, I couldn't believe it! But then somehow I realized instantly that if her girlfriend got the key, then I couldn't GET out, OR push THEM out. I knew if she got the key out of the door with it still locked, I would have to fight them to get it back, while they would be gassing me more, and that it probably would have gotten extremely and terribly violent, and that either I was going to have kill them or they would have to kill me, one or the other.
And it would have worked, because that gas really fucking chokes you and blinds you, but it does take about 15-20 seconds to completely immobilize you, when the fire ignites in your eyes, ears, nose, mouth, lungs, and all the skin on your face, scalp, and neck.
But because Tanya got surprised too, by so much gas blowing back in her own face, she lost her concentration for just long enough, that instead of jumping ON me, I immediately lunged at her, lifting her up off the floor to throw her against the closet door. So because I got the jump on HER, when she bounced back towards me off the closet door, she was only able to stab me in the knee as I put her down to the ground with a roundhouse kick.
Stopping Tanya gave me just enough time to get my hand on the key in the door, before her girlfriend reached for it to take it out of the door. The moment I got my hand on the key, her girlfriend grabbed my hand with BOTH of her hands, desperately pulling and trying to make me let go of the key. I still had one hand free to pull her hands off of my hand, so I did that, pushed her down to the floor, and turned the key. That was it, that was everything, I opened the door, air to take a breath! I grabbed them one at a time, throwing their heads against the wall in the hallway hard enough to fall down. When they hit the floor, I closed and locked the door, GAME OVER.
Well, for them. I still had to deal with the neighbors and the Militsia, and bleeding for hours. And that was after sitting in the tub with ice water pouring over my head for 30 minutes.
So finally to your question, yes, about the GROUP. When I first buzzed Tanya in on the domafon, just the two of them came up in the elevator. If they had brought in guys, to come up the stairs and wait, when I opened the door to throw out Tanya and her girlfriend out, if guys were waiting there, they would have a chance to rush the door, and I would not be here now writing this. Seriously.
I learned my lesson, everybody please pay attention now, OK???? ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS be careful. When it doesn't feel right, BE EXTREMELY CAREFUL. Just don't associate with gangs. Always obey ALL laws.
There's a few cool places, by the way, that sell very sharp hunting knives, not expensive at all, they are very effective for self defense. The last thing that anyone should EVER get involved with is violence. Always obey ALL laws!
Never hurts to let anyone know, and I always do, that as long as they behave themselves, everything will always be pleasant and actually they'll be very happy, BUT, IF they even get ANY ideas about trying to pull some shit like robbing me, I will of course be legally justified and very practiced to act in self defense, and prepared to use excessive deadly force with those very sharp hunting knives, and that would be a shame because there will only be pieces left of them to scoop up for their funeral.
Just so, you know, they don't get the wrong idea, you know what I mean?
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1586939]
So here is my question. I see 3 different possibilities here.
1. This is just a normal and natural way for these Russian girls to act. Getting practically naked in front of a best friends boyfriend the night you meet is cool, and they dont see it as provocative or problematic at all.
2. Ksusha (or both girls) is testing me to see if I will make a move on her so that she will know if her best friends boyfriend is only out for sex or is true to her and as a way to protect Ariel.
3. Ksusha is actually interested in me in some form.
[/QUOTE]You got it on the first try. While not universal amongst Russian girls, this kind of thing is quite usual. I have seen this kind of "looney" behavior before. Makes very little sense to the Western mind. The best way for Ksusha to show her approval of Ariel's choice in boyfriends is to tease you and perhaps even hit on you. I doubt very much that it is a test. If you like her, make a move on her and see what happens. You may well end up in a 3-way!!
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1586939]As far as I know, Ksusha and Ariel do not have a history of sharing sexual activity with a man (3-way). I also note that Ksushas most provocative actions are when Ariel is not in the room.[/QUOTE]And the answer is...
4. All of the above.
I think Jake is right, although their casual attitude does seem to go beyond BFF's, particularly when displaying their erogenous zones, it's not particularly scandalous.
The question is, should you respond?
Don't take this personal, but much of what you report in your post says more about you, specifically, as an American male and your attitudes and predilections regarding sex than it does about the dyevooshki you're with. I know, because I'm an American male myself (reformed).
Regardless of the reason, I think they are deliberately trying to provoke you. I imagine they are curious to see just how long it will take before you take that bad boy out of your pants and actually [I][b]do[/b][/I] something with it. The next time you find yourself with a raging hard-on while Ksyusha is bending over in front of you, you should put it where you think it will do the most good. If the girls call you on it, you have the ultimate excuse--you're a man.
Remember, in Russia, it's OK to be a man. Not only is it OK, it's actually expected.
There is another possibility that you didn't mention--Ariel and Ksyusha have a thing for [I]each other[/I] and they want to lure you into a 3 way for their own purposes.
You are being seduced, buddy boy, lose the Puritanical American upbringing and enjoy it.
удачи Вам
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1587912]
Remember, in Russia, it's OK to be a man. Not only is it OK, it's actually expected.
[/QUOTE]Hear, hear Stav. Well put.
As strange as it may sound, it's the single thing that Westerners here forget most often. We are EXPECTED to respond to our most primal of instincts. Russian girls are raised to EXPECT men to want sex. If a Russian girl is prancing around half naked in front of a man, then she expects to get some sort of a response. This puritanical Western idea of controlling our urges is, to some degree, irrelevant here. Of course, it does not give a man license to behave badly in public or even to be rude to woman. But if a girl is doing something to arouse you, then there is nothing wrong with letting her know that you are aroused. More often than not she will give you the "green light" to proceed or she will slink off in embarrassment.
Bubba Ho-Tep (2002), 13 minutes into the film, just after Callie (blonde, blue top, very short black skirt) throws her father's stuff into the trash bin.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1587912]
Regardless of the reason, I think they are deliberately trying to provoke you. I imagine they are curious to see just how long it will take before you take that bad boy out of your pants and actually [I][b]do[/b][/I] something with it. The next time you find yourself with a raging hard-on while Ksyusha is bending over in front of you, you should put it where you think it will do the most good. If the girls call you on it, you have the ultimate excuse--you're a man.[/QUOTE]And this is exactly why I did not ask you directly. I have no doubt she is trying to provoke me. My question is more what can I expect the fallout from that provocation to be?
Strav, you basically say you are a reformed American male and that in Russia men are expected to act on their sexual urges, but I often think there must be a reason why attractive, young Russian girls would go for a man like me. As totally good looking and charming as I am (not), maybe a Russian girl falls for me precisely because I am different than my Russian brethren. I am doing better in Russian than I ever thought would be possible. I don't want to fuck up a great thing.
The fact is, if I can get away with fucking both girls without losing Ariel, then I am all for it. It would not be the first time. But in reality my relationship with Ariel is more important to me than fucking Ksusha. This is why I am asking the question.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1588893]
The fact is, if I can get away with fucking both girls without losing Ariel, then I am all for it. It would not be the first time. But in reality my relationship with Ariel is more important to me than fucking Ksusha. This is why I am asking the question.[/QUOTE]OK Yummy, I suppose it's POSSIBLE that this is all an elaborate scheme on Ariel's part to "test" you. And that she has enlisted her friend Ksusha to seduce you to the point where you show your true colors thereby breaking the faith with Ariel proving to her once and for all that you are a dirty dog just like her Russian country men. IF this is true (and that's a big IF), then Ariel is a very calculating customer not typically characteristic of Russian women in this day and age.
Because of the "live for today" attitude that has been so prevalent in post-Soviet Russia, girls of that age tend to take their chances with what they have in front of them at that moment. Opting for "Mr. Right-now" rather than holding our for "Mr. Right". Again, IF this true, then perhaps you are dealing with a woman who has evolved beyond her Russian roots into something that more closely resembles a "Western Woman". Which, of course, begs the question "what's the point?
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1588893] I am doing better in Russia than I ever thought would be possible. I don't want to fuck up a great thing.
But in reality my relationship with Ariel is more important to me than fucking Ksusha. This is why I am asking the question.[/QUOTE]
OMG... we've lost him. He's in love. :)
You need to take a moment, step back from the situation, and get some fresh, well-seasoned perspective. When you first set your sights on Moscow, you were absolutely fearless. You jumped in feet first, locked 'n loaded, guns blazing. But now, it seems, you've got your paw stuck in the honey pot and you're not quite sure what to do about it.
First, you need to separate the dancer from the dance. Of course you've been fabulously successful and are having the time of your life. For the first time in your life, you are in Russia. You need to understand, any man in your situation, willing to make the kind of commitment of time and effort that you have made will also be fabulously successful. There are some members of this forum who hardly report anymore because they are too busy managing their stable of Russian girlfriends (you know who you are).
Second, you need to get a perspective on Russian women. For American men, Russian women are a little like jet fuel. You need to take a step back and make some changes in your operating parameters before you self destruct; install some oversize injector ports, adjust the fuel mixture, maybe open up the exhaust a little and then get used to running at the higher RPM's that Russian women require before before you take any serious decisions.
As to your question about the specific consequences of fucking Ariel's girlfriend, I concur with Jake, there is no reason for concern. Only American women are so insecure about their sexuality that they need to invent elaborate plots to trick their boyfriend/spouse into exposing themselves as the dogs that they know all men to be (again, need to stop thinking like an American). Russian women don't need to do this because they already know that all men are dogs, and they're fine with that--up to a point of course.
When Ariel sat down in your lap and discovered your new found affection for Ksyusha poking up between her thighs, she had all the evidence she needed to condemn you, if that was her purpose. The fact that she, and Ksyusha, were able to laugh about it shows that it was not a big deal for them.
You need to consider the possibility that Ariel and Ksyusha are just as perplexed by your behavior as you are by theirs.
So, go ahead and enjoy yourself, buddy boy--grab that brass ring. But you do need to be a little discreet about it, I mean you [i]are[/i], after all, a gentleman. Probably not a good idea for Ariel to step out of the shower, walk into the living room and find you porking her girlfriend. But the next time your girlfriend invites her girlfriend to join you in bed, you might try something, you know, subtle. Take Ksyushas hand, gently, and wrap it around your cock.
It's those simple gestures of intimacy that get a girl's heart racing. :)
счастливо
BTW - I still think it's possible that Ariel and Ksyusha may have a whole 'nother agenda that you haven't even thought of yet, just between themselves.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1589004]IF this true, then perhaps you are dealing with a woman who has evolved beyond her Russian roots into something that more closely resembles a "Western Woman". Which, of course, begs the question "what's the point?[/QUOTE]Thank you gentlemen for a great exchange of ideas. It is the best exchange we have had in a while.)) I hope it will give others some insight, too.
Really, I am not as pathetic as I sound here. Nothing either of you have said is a surprise to me and clearly you are right.
Just this afternoon I basically dumped Anna, rejuvenated Sveta, and skyped with Ariel for an hour where she spent a good chunk of time showing me some clothes she bought which included stripping down to nothing or almost nothing about 15 times and showing herself off to me.
Before I even started this discussion I promised myself the next time I will make a play for Ksusha. I am learning some new phrases that might come in handy. I came across an old CityXGuide Forum where some familiar characters had some lively discussion on that exact topic.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1586939Клаустрофобия .[/QUOTE]But what the bleep is a "claustrophobia activity"?).
Sounds like "clubbing", according to the hours you said.
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1589316] I promised myself the next time I will make a play for Ksusha. I am learning some new phrases that might come in handy. I came across an old CityXGuide Forum where some familiar characters had some lively discussion on that exact topic.[/QUOTE]So, enlighten us!
[QUOTE=SanGaetano;1589326]But what the bleep is a "claustrophobia activity"?).
Sounds like "clubbing", according to the hours you said.[/QUOTE]Hard to explain. Look it up on Trip Adviser or phobia.ru. It is like a puzzle activity. Not clubbing at all. Moscow has lots to do in the middle of the night.)).
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1589701]Hard to explain. Look it up on Trip Adviser or phobia.ru. It is like a puzzle activity. Not clubbing at all. Moscow has lots to do in the middle of the night.)).[/QUOTE]Oh ok, thanks for the answer. I found a reportage about these kinds of activity on the net. Exotic, but not very safe I would say, specially the pat where you guys enter old, abandoned properties. Not my cup of tea, but anyone has his own taste. Maybe I am too old for such adventures.
What about swinger clubs? Does anyone have experience on that? I recently found an upcoming event, that I would consider visiting (see details bellow), anyone else would like to give it a try (I translated it via google translator)?
Dear friends!
July 4, club "Fortuna" invites you to "Southern Coast"!
Soaking in a corner of southern landscapes and sun.
Enjoy a hot bath, warm sand and gentle water.
Party Format: Gang-Bang, welcome couples, single men and women.
Cost of participation:
Couple -2000 rubles.
Man - 3000 rubles.
Women. For free!
Great music from our favorite DJ.
Leading (I am not sure what this is supposed mean).
Our parties are held on the system.
All Inclusive!
Hot and cold snacks.
Whiskey, cognac, wine, champagne, beer, b / a drink.
All this does not end until the end of the party.
We do not skimp on the organization of your stay.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1589216]Russian women are a little like jet fuel. You need to take a step back and make some changes in your operating parameters before you self destruct; install some oversize injector ports, adjust the fuel mixture, maybe open up the exhaust a little and then get used to running at the higher RPM's that Russian women require before before you take any serious decisions.
[/QUOTE]Ha ha ha. Good one!!
Hi guys,
Regards from a Ramadan month in Istanbul. I am thirsty hungry and abhaza for a long time and planning a new trip to Odessa in the end of month. Where are all of you?
Strav how was St. Pete?
Yummy did you receive my mail?
And Jake how is Moscow?
And another question for Jake. After the last conflict between Ukraine and Russia where all the young Russian girls are going for their sun and beach vacation? Odessa and Evp isn't an option for them anymore. Also I am happy Russian men are out of game by this way but I am still curious where all the Russian girls in summer? I think for Tiraspol Moldovia but there are some negative reports about there.
[QUOTE=Iceberg27;1592517] After the last conflict between Ukraine and Russia where all the young Russian girls are going for their sun and beach vacation? Odessa and Evp isn't an option for them anymore. I am still curious where all the Russian girls in summer?[/QUOTE]Iceberg,
I think you may be a little disoriented after all that fasting and praying. The Crimea is now a part of Russia. It will be jammed with Russians this summer, some of them making their first trip since the end of the Soviet Union. That includes Yevpatoria. If I were you, I would be checking for airfares from IST to SIP. If you play your cards right, the Crimea could be your playground this summer.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1592582]Iceberg,
I think you may be a little disoriented after all that fasting and praying. The Crimea is now a part of Russia. It will be jammed with Russians this summer, some of them making their first trip since the end of the Soviet Union. That includes Yevpatoria. If I were you, I would be checking for airfares from IST to SIP. If you play your cards right, the Crimea could be your playground this summer.[/QUOTE]Strav,
Yeah but I don't want a gun shot on my head!
Moreover Yummy thinks Ukraine women are easier than Russian and I guess place would be full of Russian women and Ukranian will be out of there.
Also please check Reiner 's last posts in Odessa section. He is experienced on this region and thinks Crimea isn't an option anymore.
Regards.
So basically nobody on this giant sex forum never ever tried a swingerclub in Moscow, a city with 10 million people. Wow.
Anyway, maybe there is a special forum for this somewhere, but it will be in Russian tough.
[QUOTE=Iceberg27;1592643]Yeah but I don't want a gun shot on my head![/QUOTE]
Crimea is secure, it is under direct Russian control. No shot in the head there, Vladimir Vladimirovich will not allow it. Only possibility for shot in the head will be in Ukraine, particularly eastern Ukraine, and also Odessa.
Only problem with Crimea is that it has been under Ukrainian control for so long it's falling apart.
Any other excuses? :)
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1592744]Crimea is secure, it is under direct Russian control. No shot in the head there, Vladimir Vladimirovich will not allow it. Only possibility for shot in the head will be in Ukraine, particularly eastern Ukraine, and also Odessa.
Only problem with Crimea is that it has been under Ukrainian control for so long it's falling apart.
Any other excuses? :)[/QUOTE]Yeah I think I need a friend on this insecure land. Maybe you want to join me.)).
I am new to this site, but not too new into the jon scene. I am still getting use in posting messages / reports and hope that this forum is not only about P2P & prostitute. Because to honest I have fun in hunting too, despite the fact that sometimes the hunter go home with an empty bag: It is a different thing if you are, let's say, in a state like Alaska and you go to a walmart to but a salmon almost ready to eat, maybe you just have to warm it up at home, you are eating "their" fish; if you compare it with "that" salmon you fished with your own hands and with your own skills, with your brain, it was not easy, but you did it you got it, oh yes "this" salmon is your wild thing, it is "your" fish, for me it is another feeling, another experience, same family of fish, but different tastes.
Nothing against professional hoes, again I do it myself many times a year.
But hunting a Russian woman in a bar or club is fun too, and it is a very different action than in the west, specially different than the US, maybe a little bit similar to West / North Europe. I could observe that Russian women are not ashamed to be considered "gold digger" and to frankly confirm that they have a fetish with material things (expensive western bags, shoes, perfumes), and many are " gift junkies" (I give you an example: I once brought a totally strange woman to my flat just because. After a long small talk of course. I convinced her that I have a present for her at home, after sleeping with her I said "this was just a bait", she didn't like the "trick", of course, and I only did this because a friend of mine did it too and told me it works, but I didn't believe him, I thought this was a joke from him, well the next day I told him my experience and he said: I told you, it always work).
I was dating a girl who used to dance for the Bolshoi, but then after some weeks an Oligarch who was sponsoring that ballet showed interest for her. I am not a poor person, but of course I can't compare myself with an Oli, no way.
So yes he took my lady, what should I say? That's life. It could be worst: leaving me be to stay with a poorer guy. Jut kidding, but well this would at least contradicted my opinion about diewushkies as well.
I've been in a expat party some months ago. I will put the Russian girls in 4 groups: the nogos, the illiterate, the hunter and the booties.
The nogos were -to my surprise- the most open and, frankly, the most hot of all 4 groups. The only problem, they were either married (most of them married to expats) or had boyfriends (even if they were not present, I didn't like the idea at all). Fortunately a small group. In my first expat party I was flirting with one exemplar of this species, she (lets call her Svetlana) smiled all the time, was friendly and I thought that was a done deal. But at the end of the party I invited her to my place when she confessed she is married to a American man who is waiting for her at home, and I lost my precious time with her, many nice women were there. Since then I never fall again in this "trap". Now I can spot a nogo from 500 miles away in my pussymeter radar.
The illiterates were the women who didn't speak any other language other Russian. Some looked good (I could invest in some of them with help of google translator, but I asked myself "why?" to do it with plenty of girls present who spoke English), some not. A small group, in order to save time and misunderstandings, I preferred to avoid them. Let them to the fellow lucky mongers who speaks Russian.
The hunters were the one looking for a rich husband end / or a Language teacher for free. Not more then that, not less than that.
Those looking to somebody to teach them English (or the relevant language you speak) for free or at least make some "cost free" efforts in order to help her improve her English skills were quite young (Ok now some of you will say: Accept it and fuck her and say goodbye. No, sorry but in my experience, most of these women are solely looking for a "gratis teacher", not a lover, not a fuck buddy; if you are lucky they will put you in the friendzone). Unfortunately the biggest group in the house. Since I am neither a teacher nor wannabee hubby, I can also put them in the "nogo" group as well.
And finally, the booties were nice looking ladies who spoke English, were single and looking for fun. Unfortunately a small group. And damned, they are hard to spot from the nogos and hunters: Svetlana for example, can be easily be mistakenly considered a "bootie". Until she start to be honest to you, then you classify her immediately as a nogo, after loosing time and in the worst case, money with drinks.
[QUOTE=WingForwing;1609518]The illiterates were the women who didn't speak any other language other Russian. [/QUOTE]You must be an American.
To deal with Russian women, you have to take into account at least 3 points:
A. The level of education of average people is very high. Most of the girls I meet have read Maupassant and Balzac (especially these 2 writers), even the girls who have an average job and who live in a small studio way out in the suburbs. For me, part of the fun is to talk to the girl like with a good friend; even with the language gap, it way better than with Cariocas GDP and that with Asian girls.
Be. These girls know what they want. They are very romantic but also very realistic. They KNOW that "1042; М1086;1089;1082;1074;1077;, с1083;1077;1079;1099; н1077; п1086;1084;1086;1075;1091;1090; "in Moscow, tears don't help", Russian version for "There is no such thing as a free meal". The Russian have a strong feeling of belonging to the Russian people, but every single individual knows he has to build his life by himself, and for the women not relaying on the men.
See. For a Russian woman, sex is just normal, very little moral issue, and little social issue. She knows the male behavior, she does not dream to change it; so she has sex when she thinks it is good for her, whatever "good" is for her.
If you were in an expat party with Russian girls, you tried to find out the ones that could be of any interest to you, that is exactly what they do. They can be the fishes and you the fisher, but they also can be the hunter and you the rabbit.
Now it can be very very fun if you can show them, you are not a rabbit, but you are a bear (they like strong men), a mink (they like rich men), a fox (they like clever men), or any other animal of high interest.
Good luck, as for me, Moscow is the very best place if you like beautiful women and sex.
[QUOTE=WingForwing;1609518]The illiterates were the women who didn't speak any other language other Russian...[/QUOTE]Don't fool yourself. They might have read more books from the beginning till the end than you ever held in your hands.
Russia has a long tradition translating literature as well their own fabulous writers.
[QUOTE=Stravinsky;1609655]You must be an American.[/QUOTE]Mostly they are zhutkie inostrancy and zhutkie inostrancy izvrashhency. Only their gender is consistent. Sina Weibo has been chronicling their exploits for years (thousands of threads and hundreds of thousands of posts devoted to them) and both Asian and Russian girls often get the party started with the line: ty ne poverish', chto jetot zhutkij inostranec skazal mne segodnja! After that, every time someone says "CFG" everyone has to do a shot.
[QUOTE=Skwiskwis;1610043]ты не поверишь что же тот жуткие иностранец сказал мне сегодня! (You will never believe what that creepy foreigner told me today!)[/QUOTE]True, illiteracy is a relative term. In China, I would be a complete fool (which might not be a bad occupation).
I imagine this is what most of us жуткие иностранцы (creepy foreigners) look like to Russian dyevooshki
BTW - go ahead and post in Cyrillic, Jackson seems to have become much more enlightened about that. The only thing more difficult to understand than the Cyrillic alphabet is a Romanization of the Cyrillic alphabet. Just include an English translation (for all of us illiterates) and the Admin Gods should be happy.
[QUOTE=Ganesha;1609944]Don't fool yourself. They might have read more books from the beginning till the end than you ever held in your hands.
Russia has a long tradition translating literature as well their own fabulous writers.[/QUOTE]Well I did not want to offend any Russian lady (I suppose you are a Russian woman yourself?) here, who does not speak any word of English or French etc. I just looked for a name for that group of girls. Maybe this was a bad choice of name. But it is not to be understood in the literally meaning of the word "illiterate" either. Besides that, just the fact hat somebody reads "a lot of books" doesn't make that person intelligent. And BTW, I read many many books myself to begin with, this is one of my hobbies.
Most of the women in that party seem to feel quite good with us foreigners, specially with the "bad boys". In fact there were more women than men (not unusual in Russian, they use to explain that with the many men killed in WW2). Specially young Russians ladies liked very much the company of, well Americans for example.
Actually I don't need to write this, since it is more than logical: -Which Russian lady would "pay" to go to an event full of foreigners guys with very bad, aroused, exotic well lets say creepy behavior. I don't see any logic in going to meet people I don't like. And we are talking here about very intelligent girls (who read millions of books LOL), they know exactly what to expect in such parties, some are even veterans.
Aren't we all fortunate that we all don't prefer the same thing? Isn't that what makes life more interesting? How boring would it be, if we all preferred the same thing?
For others here, some actually prefer ladies that can not speak any English at all. For some, we actually prefer to be the first lover from a far away country that a Russian lady has.
When I'm faced with a choice, I would always choose a lady who speaks no English, and the reasons for that are several, and various. If I am seeking a lady to discuss literature with, I will go to the library!
When a lady is properly and sufficiently sexually stimulated, her moaning, squealing, heavy breathing, wry smile, mild embarrassment, and lip biting needs no translation, and that's more than enough for this monger. No conversation required.
No English is certainly more difficult, granted. But since when is easy, better? Some of us prefer the greater challenge. Others will find it difficult to understand that, UNTIL they journey to destinations less traveled, out in the provinces, where it's typical to find few or no English speaking ladies.
Taste is a personal choice. And BTW, in the worst case there will be always our old good friend "google" to translate at least the basic stuff. (be sure there is enough battery).
[QUOTE=SukaShalava;1610427] If I am seeking a lady to discuss literature with, I will go to the library!
[/QUOTE]Now, that is very funny. You made my day.
[QUOTE=WingForwing;1610157]Most of the women in that party seem to feel quite good with us foreigners, specially with the "bad boys". In fact there were more women than men (not unusual in Russian, they use to explain that with the many men killed in WW2). Specially young Russians ladies liked very much the company of, well Americans for example.
Actually I don't need to write this, since it is more than logical: -Which Russian lady would "pay" to go to an event full of foreigners guys with very bad, aroused, exotic well lets say creepy behavior. I don't see any logic in going to meet people I don't like. And we are talking here about very intelligent girls (who read millions of books LOL), they know exactly what to expect in such parties, some are even veterans.[/QUOTE]Some years ago, most of the Russian girls who attended "expat events", were on the hunt for a husband. Today, mos t of the girls who attend and can speak English are looking for new clients. They work for logistics companies, temp agencies, recruiters, etc and come to these events looking to network and get your business. IMHO, these events are a waste of time if you are just looking for sex.
[QUOTE=Jake993;1610452]Some years ago, most of the Russian girls who attended "expat events", were on the hunt for a husband. Today, mos t of the girls who attend and can speak English are looking for new clients. They work for logistics companies, temp agencies, recruiters, etc and come to these events looking to network and get your business. IMHO, these events are a waste of time if you are just looking for sex.[/QUOTE]That's not only true in Moscow but also for ambitious Russians living in major world cities. Years back, I use to attend real estate mixers held by Russians and Polish agents and always a good blow job to be had in the restaurant parking lot. Now, it is what it is, a networking event.
[QUOTE=Leggio1;1610462] always a good blow job to be had in the restaurant parking lot. Now, it is what it is, a networking event.[/QUOTE]That's perfectly put!! A sad testament to the fact that Russia truly has evolved. Not to pour cold water on the topic of blow jobs, but it really is interesting to watch how a society evolves over time and to track key indicators to get hints into relative prosperity and how this impacts social behavior and perhaps even self esteem in young women. I mean, did they stop giving blow jobs in the restaurant parking lots because they no longer liked giving blow jobs? I doubt it. They stopped giving blow jobs in the parking lot because they felt they no longer NEEDED to. I think this is a key point to keep in mind when trying to understand how the sex scene evolves over time in a particular city or country.
What's to understand? The history of all fabled mongering destinations (Once upon a time, when I was a soldier in Vietnam. Once upon a time, when I was in Russia just after the default. Once upon a time, when I was in Paris after the war ended) is tied to the economic state of that destination, which is why the Ukraine threads are full of wishes for a full-fledged economic meltdown, so as to bring Ukrainian girls back on their knees into the parking lots. For the price of a cigarette, presumably, and why more and more you see postings about finding the promised land in rural areas of Russia, I. E. the still grimly impoverished areas, where the girls are real girls and on their knees.
The simple truth is the girls didn't and don't like or want to swallow genetic material in a parking lot from FGs they just met, because if they really did like and want it they would still be doing it, and clearly they are not, at least not with FGs, not like they were doing it 'once upon a time' when men were real men and women were real women and 9's and 10's were on their knees in such numbers in parking lots you would have thought you were at a Milan fashion show, only better. Times, they have changed for mongers, and the parking lots of the major and inferior urban centers of Russia (I steadfastly refuse to name the alleged southern capital, even to diss it) are no longer that which they once were.
Of course they may doing it with Oligarchs, but that's a different thread and different parking lots, and tied to what they now expect for BJs, which your average FG can't offer (since we all know Oligarchs have superior genetic material to offer).
[QUOTE=Jake993;1610825]That's perfectly put!! A sad testament to the fact that Russia truly has evolved. Not to pour cold water on the topic of blow jobs, but it really is interesting to watch how a society evolves over time and to track key indicators to get hints into relative prosperity and how this impacts social behavior and perhaps even self esteem in young women. I mean, did they stop giving blow jobs in the restaurant parking lots because they no longer liked giving blow jobs? I doubt it. They stopped giving blow jobs in the parking lot because they felt they no longer NEEDED to. I think this is a key point to keep in mind when trying to understand how the sex scene evolves over time in a particular city or country.[/QUOTE]
I don't think we are necessary dependent on economic factors / wars in order to get that special BJ in a parking lot, lift, park or any other location you can think of. If you have the necessary charm and the girl likes you, well then go for it guys, it is still possible. I had a lady some weeks ago who said quite openly "I like it also", she had money, she had Porsche (not unusual for a woman in big Russian cities). So IMO it is a question of fun (for both) too, not only money, but yes money and power are some of the "worlds greatest aphrodisiacs". But it seems that some dinosaurs think the women are still reacting the way they did on the past. They are dynamic, women in change. And again, women are different, you can not generalize it, specially in a multiethnical, multicultural country.
I saw a strange situation yesterday: A foreign (tourist or business I don't know, just guessing because he spoke English) went to a bar. Two girls approach him or he approached the girls I don't know exactly I was a bit far and busy myself with a lady, but suddenly all of them were in the same table off the bar speaking in English. One woman was taller then him with black hair, the other blond and small, both not really very attractive imo, but maybe he was just looking for fun. After some vodkas and other drinks all 3 seem to have fun, I said to myself, what a lucky bastard. I guess I would have stopped by then and go home at that time since they consumed way too much alk. But again, we are all adults and lord of our behavior.
Two guys came into the pub, joined the table as if would be no big deal for the ladies, the man wondered who what was going on, but the ladies said something and he smiled. After a while they all left the place (after the poor bastard have paid all the bill, of course).
The 2 guys seemed to be normal (not mafiosi looking guys, they were wearing those small wallet with handles. Very typical for Russian men, see the picture bellow, very similar to the picture but a little smaller), I will not judge them or the ladies here, this could happen in any country BTW. But I confess to have a bad feeling about the happy ending of that event. I hope everything went fine for him.
As we saw on the post of Suka, we should never trust a hooker (which is valid for all countries, not only for Russia), to be always polite and respectful to her is ok, but don't put too much believe on their words. I am not saying they were hookers though.
[QUOTE=SukaShalava;1493221]Monger fends off attempted murder / robbery perpetrated by vicious bloodthirsty bandit tramps and their gang of hooligans!
Yes, I'm pleased to report that although I received a hell of a scare, I was fortunately in good enough physical condition to fight back against a face full of pepper spray and a deep laceration inflicted by an undetermined weapon, to lift up and throw two really fucked up podsirushkas by their hair against the wall and out on their asses in the hallway.
If there is one thing that's obvious, its that bandits are not necessarily known for their forethought in planning robberies. If your plan is to blast your victim in the face with a cloud of pepper spray, in the very small area just inside an apartment doorway, where you hang up your coats, you really should keep in mind that half of the cloud of pepper spray will blow right back into your own face...[/QUOTE]
If you are looking for quality, Moscow is really the place to be, women are very attractive, very open to sex, and very passionate.
There are a lot of options for free sex, but for me it is too much time consuming and you can end up in a delicate situation, so my choice is pay sex.
Out of the 15 different women I did fuck during this stay:
- 2 are real professionals from INTIMCITY.
- 13 are from MAMBA and at least 9 of them have a regular job and / or a husband and do pay sex for extra money.
- 10 were new to me and 5 I knew from a previous trip.
- 12 are attractive (7-8) or very attractive (9) (I like white skin, slim body, with curves).
- All but one make sex like a regular girlfriend and made me forget I was paying for it. 9 are very good lays and are very passionate in having sex and in those 9, 4 are outstanding: very attractive 8 or 9, and very passionate.
- 9 came to my apartment, 4 I went to her apartment sometimes way out in the suburb and one we met in a love hotel near Kitaï-Gorod.
- Only one did prefer to talk to me in English.
Most of the times I did pay 10 kR ($280) for 2 hours, and a few times 5 kR or 7 kR.
I also went to private parties in a sauna, cost 5 kR ($140) for the whole afternoon, that includes food and fucking with 2, 3 or 4 women. You have to wait for a woman to be free and sex is less intimate and shorter, but you also meet real Russian people.
I do speak a little Russian and that helps a lot, but there are so many women on the market that the English speaking ones still make a good offer, probably more expensive.
Getting plenty of good sex in Moscow is very easy, but you have to do your own work, RTFF and spend some time on internet and / or in the right bars and clubs.
Budget is $500 a day, that includes accommodation (renting an apartment), eating and a 2 hours meeting every day.
I am already longing to go back to Moscow.
I agree regarding that Russian ladies have one of the highest quality. In other countries you have quality but not in that quantity; or quantity but not quality. In Russia, mostly you will have both Qs.
Plus, in my opinion, depending on what one is expecting, he will be better off with hooker. Why? Well it saves a lot of time, money and stress.
If you go stay with a girlfriend, you must spend your quality time (if you don't invest your quality time in her, she will think, she is not your main girlfriend, and that's where the jealousy stress begins, we don't need that stress). And on the long run it is even more expensive than the pro: Remembering that this is a culture of giving small presents and flowers (they will expect this from you, no excuses) and f course paying the bill at the pectopah.
Especially if one is in Russia for a short while (as tourist for example), time is his most precious good. And in order so save it, he got go to a pro or similar. What many guys want from GF: sex (not talking about literature, not talking about business). What most (if not all) guys want from pros: sex.
So IMHO don't see the real advantage in having a relationship. Well except the 1 night relationships.
Besides that you can order a GFE anyway.
[QUOTE=Chercheur;1614247]If you are looking for quality, Moscow is really the place to be, women are very attractive, very open to sex, and very passionate.
There are a lot of options for free sex, but for me it is too much time consuming and you can end up in a delicate situation, so my choice is pay sex.
Out of the 15 different women I did fuck during this stay:
- 2 are real professionals from INTIMCITY.
- 13 are from MAMBA and at least 9 of them have a regular job and / or a husband and do pay sex for extra money.
- 10 were new to me and 5 I knew from a previous trip.
- 12 are attractive (7-8) or very attractive (9) (I like white skin, slim body, with curves).
- All but one make sex like a regular girlfriend and made me forget I was paying for it. 9 are very good lays and are very passionate in having sex and in those 9, 4 are outstanding: very attractive 8 or 9, and very passionate...[/QUOTE]
BTW. There is a free magazine out there called "Flirt". On the middle of it (page 24) there is a map of the Moscow subway stations. For each station they placed one or more girls with their respective phone numbers. See picture bellow.
Does somebody has any experience with the accuracy of this publication? Some ads are fake for sure. The idea is good IMO, would help some guys with orientation and distances.
[QUOTE=Chercheur;1614247]If you are looking for quality, Moscow is really the place to be, women are very attractive, very open to sex, and very passionate.
There are a lot of options for free sex, but for me it is too much time consuming and you can end up in a delicate situation, so my choice is pay sex.
one we met in a love hotel near Kita-Gorod.
I also went to private parties in a sauna, cost 5 kR ($140) for the whole afternoon, that includes food and fucking with 2, 3 or 4 women. You have to wait for a woman to be free and sex is less intimate and shorter, but you also meet real Russian people.
I am already longing to go back to Moscow.[/QUOTE]Nice work, Chercheur, and well summarised!
Mind if ask the name of the 'love hotel' near Kitai Gorod?
And how did you manage to crack the sauna sex party scene? :)
[QUOTE=Gergiev;1617325]Nice work, Chercheur, and well summarised!
Mind if ask the name of the 'love hotel' near Kitai Gorod?
And how did you manage to crack the sauna sex party scene? :)[/QUOTE]Love hotel: they are all over the city.
[URL]http://www.podushkin.ru/[/URL]
I went to 2 sauna sex parties:
One I got from SEXTALK, I went once. 10 K 4 young attractive girls (2 are on INTIMCITY for 8 K / hour) for about 10 men. I did not manage to well to get the girls, because you have to sort of "grab" them and take them to a private room, and that is not my way of doing it. On top of that, when I was with a girl, she did not want to have very personal intercourse in a public place. It was hard for me as I can speak to a person in Russian but I cannot enter into the discussion with several people speaking Russian. I end up talking to a cutie who was very interested in talking to a foreigner, but she had to leave before I could take her to a room.
The other one from MAMBA. I went several times, 5 K, more personal, held by a woman who looks after everything, girls are not professionals, a few young ones, but most are in their 30/40's, some even more. The mamasan made it easier for me to be in the discussion and the girls are open to personal intercourse, very interesting!
[QUOTE=Chercheur;1619545]Love hotel: they are all over the city.
[URL]http://www.podushkin.ru/[/URL]
I went to 2 sauna sex parties:
The other one from MAMBA. I went several times, 5 K, more personal, held by a woman who looks after everything, girls are not professionals, a few young ones, but most are in their 30/40's, some even more. The mamasan made it easier for me to be in the discussion and the girls are open to personal intercourse, very interesting![/QUOTE]Sounds fascinating, Chercheur.
Thank you for elaborating!
[QUOTE=YummyPL;1586939]Im going to ask everyone about a situation and I would appreciate feedback from people that have experience here.
I now have what I consider a real girlfriend in Moscow. I call her Ariel as her name is unusual and I dont want anyone connecting this report with her. So much so that I am not really exploring options for new girls and am doing minimal work to maintain old girls. So the last two times I was Moscow (in May and this past weekend) my girlfriend stayed with me in my apartment for the whole trip (8 nights and 2 nights, respectively). On both trips, we invited her friend Ksusha to stay with us for the night on one of the nights and went out to a activity called Клаустрофобия before returning to the apartment. For my taste, except being tally than I like, Ksusha is a knockout. I love her look.Fantastic body and lovely face. For my personal taste, she is a solid 8.
When we were out together, and when we were at the apartment together before sleeping, Ksusha was friendly, a little flirty, and very nice. She smiled a lot and seemed to be enjoying herself. There was alittle sexual talk but it was just talk and there was zero physical contact of sexual or even flirty nature during either evenings (she didnt put her hand on my knee or touch my arm while talking or any of that standard flirty stuff. We sat next to each other a couple of times so there was contact then). So that was our interaction...[/QUOTE]Ok I understand your position. Their behaviour is highly suspicious but if you do not react soon such occasions will be never presented to you again!
Here is a low risk technique to find out what all this means. When you all 3 are together start talking enthusiastically on how good a 4 hands massage techique it feels I. E. It is like a double pleasure, it feels like all your body is touched, it connects with the spirit etc. Convince them and then start massaging together with one lady the one who is more likely to be jealous I. E. Your girlfriend. Order your gf to lay down, lead the massage, sit opposite from each other. While massaging stimulate you GF, arousal will grow something might happen then, if not ask to be massaged by them two, chances are they will start making out if they are courious, then switch again, you and your gf massaging her now, start kissing with your gf while massaging the other lady. You will find soon what will happen if is ok for your gf going on with that. Initially try to make them kiss each other and observe until they will make the first move to you, needless to say, before prepare a cosy atmosphere, make time management and have massage oil with you! Ah and let us know what happened after!
Cheers
[QUOTE=Comvos2002;1620244]Ok I understand your position. Their behaviour is highly suspicious but if you do not react soon such occasions will be never presented to you again!
Here is a low risk technique to find out what all this means...[/QUOTE]Thanks for the words Comvos. I'm a little beyond that now but I appreciate the effort.
Question for the more experienced mongers well versed in the macro-economy of the hobby:
Which country and / or city in the world would you say is the best value (quality vs price) for mongering with Slavic girls (Ukrainian, Russian, CIS, etc)?
I'd like to begin planning a vacation and can't make up my mind between Ukraine, Russia, or perhaps other places that might be better than I'm unaware of.
And in which destination would you say the girls are more open minded about uncovered play?
[QUOTE=Arevir;1814908]
Question on the macro-economy of the hobby:
Which country / city is the best value (quality vs price) for mongering Slavic girls (Ukrainian, Russian, CIS, etc)?
I like girls more open minded about uncovered play.
[/QUOTE]The Russian economy is tied to the price of oil. Sanctions, embargoes, wars, and lack of business investment only add to the struggle they are experiencing, that continues to drag opportunities for growth in the wrong direction. This means that our support and generosity are needed more than ever.
The regional capitals, in the heartland of this culture and custom, each have centers that are reachable by buses and trolleys for most of your new acquaintances. Since its feasible for them to come to you, that's where you should be renting a nice flat.
Remember that in general, the typical average monger won't do this. That's exactly why you should. You can be just another sucker and take the well-traveled low-risk path to go with the crowds to chase pros in Moscow, Pitr, or Kiev, or you can blaze your own trail into the unknown where there are less sponsors. Take care of the Motherland, she does not expect this from most of us, so she will be pleasantly surprised. If in return, the Motherland takes care of you, it shouldn't be a surprise.
If you can wait until May / June, for the coats to come off, blouses will reveal jiggling beauty and skirts blow in the breeze.
[QUOTE=SukaShalava;1816002]The Russian economy is tied to the price of oil. Sanctions, embargoes, wars, and lack of business investment only add to the struggle they are experiencing, that continues to drag opportunities for growth in the wrong direction. This means that our support and generosity are needed more than ever.
.[/QUOTE]Hear, hear. So true. Krasnoyarsk, Tomsk, Tyumen, Ufa. Pick one and enjoy.
[QUOTE=SukaShalava;1816002]The Russian economy is tied to the price of oil. Sanctions, embargoes, wars, and lack of business investment only add to the struggle they are experiencing, that continues to drag opportunities for growth in the wrong direction. This means that our support and generosity are needed more than ever.
The regional capitals, in the heartland of this culture and custom, each have centers that are reachable by buses and trolleys for most of your new acquaintances. Since its feasible for them to come to you, that's where you should be renting a nice flat.
Remember that in general, the typical average monger won't do this. That's exactly why you should. You can be just another sucker and take the well-traveled low-risk path to go with the crowds to chase pros in Moscow, Pitr, or Kiev, or you can blaze your own trail into the unknown where there are less sponsors. Take care of the Motherland, she does not expect this from most of us, so she will be pleasantly surprised. If in return, the Motherland takes care of you, it shouldn't be a surprise.
If you can wait until May / June, for the coats to come off, blouses will reveal jiggling beauty and skirts blow in the breeze.[/QUOTE]One thought I had about this, is that the quality of your playtime is directly connected to how well you connect with these girls (speak Russian). When I was in StP, as well as I got along with the girls there, ultimately, it was hand-party only. There is not a doubt in my mind that this experience was reserved only for me because I did not speak Russian and I was a transient. It seems that a Russian girl won't feel comfortable enough with you unless she has something upon which she can relate. Regardless of the city, it seems that the working girls are primarily from the far off areas of the country, so in essence it will be more of the same if you go to their hometowns. If only I could speak Russian fluently, the other obstacles may be negotiable. Translators are mostly garbage, you can't rely on them. Moscow was the actually the last time I got past third base. I guess the girls that show up to that city aren't fuckin around. Or rather, they ARE hehe LOL.
Same days ago I had a nice time with a sponsorette. As I gave her the Money she said "put it on my pocket". A person who was about to give me one of my best sex ever including an authentic GFE with long kissing, BBBJ etc. Did not want touch my hand? Hmm, interesting. In other countries you pay the lady and she counts it in the front of you in a second. Well anyway, maybe because this Russian is a beginner or so. I didn't care much, the sex was great.
But when similar behavior happened again with another girl yesterday I became curious, but this was result from dating. When I gave her money for taxi (it was around 2 am, metro closed) she showed her purse. Was it me / my hand, was it the Money, was it she being embarrassed for taking the money? None of the above, the reason is superstition / custom, at least this is the info I got from the web so far (as her English was basically absent I couldn't ask her myself).
It is quite normal if you meet with normal girl who need just a bit support. They do not want to feel like hooker and therefore they prefer you give the money and they don't take it. Only prostitutes take money. Same happened to me after creaming the whole night several times a 18 years young student. I had to put the money in her backpack and the was not asking.
[QUOTE=SanGaetano;1891507]Same days ago I had a nice time with a sponsorette. As I gave her the Money she said "put it on my pocket". A person who was about to give me one of my best sex ever including an authentic GFE with long kissing, BBBJ etc. Did not want touch my hand? Hmm, interesting. In other countries you pay the lady and she counts it in the front of you in a second. Well anyway, maybe because this Russian is a beginner or so. I didn't care much, the sex was great.
But when similar behavior happened again with another girl yesterday I became curious, but this was result from dating. When I gave her money for taxi (it was around 2 am, metro closed) she showed her purse. Was it me / my hand, was it the Money, was it she being embarrassed for taking the money? None of the above, the reason is superstition / custom, at least this is the info I got from the web so far (as her English was basically absent I couldn't ask her myself).[/QUOTE]Where did you find the girl (sponserette)?
[QUOTE=CumerBareback;1891857]It is quite normal if you meet with normal girl who need just a bit support. They do not want to feel like hooker and therefore they prefer you give the money and they don't take it. Only prostitutes take money. Same happened to me after creaming the whole night several times a 18 years young student. I had to put the money in her backpack and the was not asking.[/QUOTE]That's true Cumer. No woman wants to be seem as hooker, even if she is a hooker: If one tells a WG that she is one, it can be interpreted as insult by her.
On the other hand (talking abut hands), there is still a bit of superstition around. Here is the article I found on the net: [URL]http://rbth.com/articles/2010/09/07/twelve_russian_superstitions04931.html[/URL].
It says "It is believed that the money can transmit energy from its owner, including negative energy. ".
I didn't have much problem giving the cash direct into the hands of the female cashiers in "magazin" or "produkti" thou, maybe they got used to foreigners.
Absolutely. And since they are just normal girls, it may also happen that they will meet you again for free. That was the case with me and the following two nights I had great sex for free.
The Venturers.
Is a woman or girl who comes from other Oblasts in Russia, some even from other continents in Russia (Asia) to cities like Moscow or St. Peterburg to try their luck. Some of them comes, sees and wins (for example those who married an oligarch). Other come and see, does not win but stay anyway, working as Bugalter or something similar that a female Moscovites don't want to do. If you are a provider type or sugar daddy, you have good chances with those.
The Semi returnees.
Is a woman who lives in the West (Usually North America or Europe) and / or is married in the West but comes regularly to visit her parents and / or friends in Russia. For ex. I dated a woman who lives in France with her French husband, but comes to Moscow sometimes to visit her relatives and. Well spice up her sexual life. I was impressed with her sexual talent. I asked why she cheated on her hubby, she said, well, "he also cheats on me".
The Final returnees.
Is a woman who lived in the West (Usually North America or Europe) and / or was married in the West but decided to come back to Russia. For ex. I dated some of this kind and I can say one thing: They are quite simple to deal with and pretty much open minded regarding ONS. In my experience, they are the easiest of these 3 categories.
There are many other kinds of women, maybe someone knows other interesting types.
"Russian women are not different than other women in the world".
I listen this phrase a lot from Russian girls, but in reality they is different, as different as Asian women from African women or Canadian women from Latinas etc.
Regarding to sex, I discovered huge differences. There are some techniques that most Russian women love more than other women. It took me long time but I discovered it. But even among Russian women there are. Of course. The exceptions. I will continue to use this technique in order to find a real benchmark, until now it is working.
What sets Russian women apart? Difficult to generalize. Russia certainly has many poor girls, who know they are Pretty and who know they can capitalize on this. Russia has many women who believe, that without contacts to the powerful, they cannot Advance their cause. Feminism is not strong in the Western sense. There are many strong women, but they equate the roles of men and women less than some in the West do. Also strong women use their femininity, their Looks, their Charms and their sex Appeal to get what they want, probably more so than in the West. Nevertheless, women despise prostitutes, even if they slept around in younger years, probably for fear of their Partner falling prey to one. Discretion in such as matters is paramount. The disruptiveness of sexual Relations in the work context is well known. The Worlds of private Play and work are largely separated. Mixing them is a no no. Girls with many contacts to Sponsors are usually somewhat lonely and enjoy few social Relations. Relations over Long distances, like to mothers in the far angles of Russia, are maintained of Course. I had over the many years a Variety of sweet contacts to colleagues, but would never have been so foolish as to burden my work Environment with sexual side Shows. Once a really sweet slender and tiny, curly Long haired 21 year old Intern who was assigned to me was awfully Aware I thought her attractive. Oh well, no male beknownst to her on this planet thought otherwise. And, full disclosure, she also was smart and efficient in her Project. Whatever, on her last day we worked late to finish and I proposed to have a coffee in the City on the way out. She smiled and knowingly said "better not". I told her something shy and stupid like I l had liked the tacit sensual aspect of having worked with her and said farewell. Probably made no sense in Russian, whatever I said. She replied that she would take a bath in the river the next morning, and whether I would like to join. (She had talked about regular swimming in the morning before, I knew it to be no game of hers). I replied sure. She proposed 7 o Clock in the morning at a beach on the other side of the river. I agreed and thought to myself, discretion is the better part of Valor. In the morning, we met, no soul around. She looked simply awesome in her bikini, really a 5 foot 2 princess with a great face and shapely breasts. Her tummy was stunning. She dashed towards the water and we took a swim. At a distance from the beach she took her bikini off and proposed I take my swimming trunks off too. I did and of course it felt and looked great (she looked great! We swam for a while, dressed in the water and got out. I thanked her for the teasing experience and that was that. She said she wanted to give me a nice memory. Hmm. It worked. Years later I was able to recommend her, but I did so on the merits of her work. Nevertheless, she knew how to keep me grateful without crossing the border irreversibly. Anyway, this was her move, would not call it particularly Russian. Will not report her to the MeToo Website.
[QUOTE=Philosophus;2261040]What sets Russian women apart? Difficult to generalize. Russia certainly has many poor girls, who know they are Pretty and who know they can capitalize on this. Russia has many women who believe, that without contacts to the powerful, they cannot Advance their cause. Feminism is not strong in the Western sense. There are many strong women, but they equate the roles of men and women less than some in the West do. Also strong women use their femininity, their Looks, their Charms and their sex Appeal to get what they want, probably more so than in the West. Nevertheless, women despise prostitutes, even if they slept around in younger years, probably for fear of their Partner falling prey to one. Discretion in such as matters is paramount. The disruptiveness of sexual Relations in the work context is well known. The Worlds of private Play and work are largely separated. Mixing them is a no no. Girls with many contacts to Sponsors are usually somewhat lonely and enjoy few social Relations. Relations over Long distances, like to mothers in the far angles of Russia, are maintained of Course. I had over the many years a Variety of sweet contacts to colleagues, but would never have been so foolish as to burden my work Environment with sexual side Shows. [/QUOTE]Great story Philosophus. I think you did a nice job of capturing the condition of the Russian woman. In particular to the way in which they use their femininity to help achieve their goals both at work and at home and how it contrasts from their Western counterparts. Sex with more senior colleagues and bosses is not uncommon in Russia and women seem to take it all in stride knowing that it will often open doors for them that might not otherwise be so. And sometimes, as it is in the West, it means that they are NOT branded with the stereotype of "office tramp" but as a women who will do what needs to be done in order to achieve a goal. Incidentally, this is the same stuff (in my opinion) that these so called "spies" are made of which you see pop up in the news and on TV shows (The Americans) now and then. OK, maybe they don't commit murder for their country, but fucking your boss in order to gain preference over male colleagues is not unheard of in Russia. I once over heard an office conversation between two women (who thought I was just a dumb foreigner that did not understand what they were saying) where they were praising the actions of a female co-worker who did the aforementioned. The phased that made me laugh was " After all, she's just having sex with him; it's not like she's bearing his children!
And that's all I am going to say about that!
[URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QslnGieHc_c[/URL]
OK, so you guys that marry Russian women, look at this and be aware that they are coming away with this BS in their head! She's learned to not give a shit about her weight, not keep her man happy with good food, he will be slapped by society into loyalty, and that he can fucking take care of himself-no doubt while she's out spending your money. Fair Warning!
[QUOTE=NakedGunz;2274113][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QslnGieHc_c[/URL]
OK, so you guys that marry Russian women, look at this and be aware that they are coming away with this BS in their head! She's learned to not give a shit about her weight, not keep her man happy with good food, he will be slapped by society into loyalty, and that he can fucking take care of himself-no doubt while she's out spending your money. Fair Warning![/QUOTE]Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. Good post! You, sir have performed a valuable public service.
[QUOTE=NakedGunz;2274113][URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QslnGieHc_c[/URL]
OK, so you guys that marry Russian women, look at this and be aware that they are coming away with this BS in their head! She's learned to not give a shit about her weight, not keep her man happy with good food, he will be slapped by society into loyalty, and that he can fucking take care of himself-no doubt while she's out spending your money. Fair Warning![/QUOTE]Good one. The title says it all "Benefits. " sadly that's what a lot of them look for when getting a husband.
But let's be fair, some well intention women can also be found in Russia. Or at least I have been told so.
Russian women have a bad rep for doing a runner when they reach western countries so embassies are hard on them to give out visas unless they have a good job to return too. Many guys got married and then couldn't get them over to their country unless their credentials were top notch. Such a violin player or a piano player.
[QUOTE=Member#4615;2281944]Good one. The title says it all "Benefits. " sadly that's what a lot of them look for when getting a husband.
But let's be fair, some well intention women can also be found in Russia. Or at least I have been told so.[/QUOTE]Based on my own experience with relationships and women, I'd say that you don't really know if you are compatible with somebody or not, until you live with that person for about a year or so.
So, if you are marrying someone without having lived with that person for a substantial period of time, then you are jumping into the unknown and hoping for the best. Sometimes it works out well, and sometimes it doesn't.
People usually break up because of some conflict or disagreement. So, if you want to reduce your risk of such a break up, then you need to observe and find out how the two of you handle your disagreements, even minor ones. Do you resolve your disagreements quickly and easily for mutual satisfaction? Or does one of you win and the other loses all the time? Or do you just leave your disagreements festering for a long time without any resolution?
I'd say that only your ability to resolve your disagreements quickly and easily for mutual satisfaction bodes well for your future relationship. The other two usually lead to a break up eventually.
So, how you resolve your disagreements is definitely something to look for. And if you haven't yet had disagreements, and you don't know how you usually resolve your disagreements, then you don't really know what you are getting into, when you marry such a person. This is like jumping into the dark and hoping for the best.
But the problem with my advice is that you don't usually have an opportunity to live with someone and find out how you resolve your disagreements. So, it's common for people to take a risk, jump into the dark so to say, and hope for the best. But when you do this, then you need to be realistic and not be surprised, when your relationship fails. You need to be prepared for a failure of your relationship, when you take such a big risk.
And of course marrying someone from another country and culture is even more risky than marrying someone from a country and culture you know. Because in such a situation even common sense can be misleading. What's common sense in her country and culture might not be common sense in yours. So, you can have conflicts and misunderstandings about things that you don't even normally think about. And this is something you won't necessarily experience, until you live with that person for a while.
Since no more wall, Russian women turned to really love money, many wait their man to give them money and buy them jewels, fashion. For my tastes, they are the prettiest and one of the more elegant, but not anymore the prettiest when getting older. Better to speak Russian with Russian girls. Going to Russia without speaking Russian may be a bit complicated to meet women. Maybe easier to find a nice, really honest one in far deep poor Siberia or Oural or Kamchatka.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2514224]Since no more wall, Russian women turned to really love money, many wait their man to give them money and buy them jewels, fashion. For my tastes, they are the prettiest and one of the more elegant, but not anymore the prettiest when getting older. Better to speak Russian with Russian girls. Going to Russia without speaking Russian may be a bit complicated to meet women. Maybe easier to find a nice, really honest one in far deep poor Siberia or Oural or Kamchatka.[/QUOTE]I'd say it's not the removal of the wall that changed people's behavior. It's increased economic insecurity.
When people have trouble paying their bills, and they aren't sure if they'll be able to pay their bills in the future, then of course they will care about money. Because this is worry about survival and being able to fulfill your basic needs. Which is perfectly reasonable for people who are economically insecure. Money is just a means for getting what you need and want.
Women know that they lose their attractiveness, when they get old. So, it makes sense for them to accumulate some money, while they are able to do so. Or else they might end up in a bad situation, when they get old. And of course, women also worry about money because they often have children or can potentially have a child, whom they need to support. And women don't always have a man to help them out with that. There is some insecurity in this too.
So, it doesn't make sense to blame women for wanting money, as long as their demand is reasonable and they are willing to do something in return for it. There can be some unfairness in this. But this unfairness comes from the government, rather than from women. It's governments who make all kinds of rules and laws for regulating relationships between men and women. Politicians are seldom nice people. They are good at quarreling and blaming each other to make the other look bad and themselves look good. So, it's no surprise that the rules and the laws they make aren't always fair and nice.
Arbitrary and unfair rules and laws is what you really need to worry about, when you marry someone. This is what makes men feel insecure about marriage and long-term commitment.
When people are insecure, and they don't fully trust each other for good reasons, then they avoid making any big and long-term commitments. Because the bigger and the longer your commitment, the greater is your risk of things turning out bad for you. It makes more sense to have short-term relationships, without any permanent commitment, to reduce your risk. Because if your short-term relationship doesn't work out, and you lose something, then your loss is limited and it doesn't totally ruin your life. And of course, in this situation it also makes sense for people to avoid having children. Because having a child is a long-term responsibility and a big commitment. Which doesn't make sense to do, when you feel insecure and unsure about your future. This is true for both men and women.
Men and women still need and want each other for companionship, sex, pleasure, and economic support. And they both can still get some of that by having short-term relationships with each other. This is making the best of a bad situation. And of course, not everybody is in a good position to find a long-term partner, even in an ideal society. You might be sick, shy, unattractive, relatively poor, or old. And in this situation it makes no sense for a woman to have a committed, long-term relationship with you. But some women are still willing to take a good drilling even in such a situation. Because they are doing it as a favor for the guy in exchange for compensation. Which is essentially work, or sex-work in this case.
There is always a need for short-term relationships, even in an ideal society. But when society is screwed up and people feel unsure and insecure about their present and their future, then having short-term relationships might be what makes the most sense for most people.
So, instead of thinking about marriage and looking for someone, you might be better off looking for a lady, who is a short-term baddie with cocky guys like you.
In Russian language there is a word 'Poklonnik'. It literally translates into English as 'worshipper'. But its actual meaning is that of a guy worshipping the ass of a hot lass.
Poklonnik is a guy who falls for some hot woman and lusts after her with a lot of deference and respect. And he isn't the only one lusting after her pussy and bum. Such a lady usually has many guy liking her and doing favors for her.
Some Russian guys use this word 'Poklonnik' to describe their relationship with a hot sex-worker lady, who does it for money with them. They refer to themselves as this lady's Poklonniks. I've seen the word 'Poklonnik' being used this way in some Russian sex-forums.
There is no equivalent word for this in the English language. Because people in the West usually see sex-work as a kind of commercial transaction. In the West, guys might even feel superior to the sex-worker lady and look down on her. Which is the opposite of being the lady's Poklonnik, where you get down on your knees and worship the ass of your hot lass, like she is doing a favor for you by spreading her cheeks for you.
Perhaps there is a somewhat similar idea in Western culture. It's that of a porn fan. A hot porn-star is a like a sex-goddess for many fans lusting after her. And many fans do admire and desire such ladies. But of course, porn-fans only watch the hot lady's debauch. They don't do any personal favors for the lady. She doesn't meet them and doesn't even know them. So, it's all very impersonal and not quite the same as being a Russian Poklonnik of some hot lady you like.
And for some reason, people in the West don't usually transfer this idea of being the hot lady's fan to sex-worker ladies who actually meet guys and have sex with them. Most people see some fundamental difference between porn-stars and sex-worker ladies who do it for money with guys. It's like porn-stars doing it for money are like sex-goddesses. But similar women doing it for money with ordinary guys are like lowly, fallen women, who perhaps need to be pitied, rather than respected and worshipped.
Perhaps being the lady's Poklonnik isn't the only way Russian men relate to sex-worker ladies. But this is more of a thing in Russia, than in the west. And it's not just guys who see themselves this way. The hot ladies also play their part in response. They see themselves as Beauty Queens who descend from their thrones to play around with cocky bones. Her subjects have a need, and she does the deed. But she is the one superior to them, doing her royal favors for them. And the guys agree with that, even while they pound her sexy butt.
[QUOTE=Dan7373;2514593]I'd say it's not the removal of the wall that changed people's behavior. It's increased economic insecurity.
When people have trouble paying their bills, and they aren't sure if they'll be able to pay their bills in the future, then of course they will care about money. Because this is worry about survival and being able to fulfill your basic needs. Which is perfectly reasonable for people who are economically insecure. Money is just a means for getting what you need and want.
Women know that they lose their attractiveness, when they get old. So, it makes sense for them to accumulate some money, while they are able to do so. Or else they might end up in a bad situation, when they get old. And of course, women also worry about money because they often have children or can potentially have a child, whom they need to support. And women don't always have a man to help them out with that. There is some insecurity in this too.
So, it doesn't make sense to blame women for wanting money, as long as their demand is reasonable and they are willing to do something in return for it. There can be some unfairness in this. But this unfairness comes from the government, rather than from women. It's governments who make all kinds of rules and laws for regulating relationships between men and women. Politicians are seldom nice people. They are good at quarreling and blaming each other to make the other look bad and themselves look good. So, it's no surprise that the rules and the laws they make aren't always fair and nice.
Arbitrary and unfair rules and laws is what you really need to worry about, when you marry someone. This is what makes men feel insecure about marriage and long-term commitment..[/QUOTE]My meaning was a man who is not able to bring money to his woman, is not a real man for many Russian women. In France, many women are proud to be independent, making their own money.
I believe what you are describing is termed a lapdog in English. It doesn't have a very good connotation. It may be different in Russia.
[QUOTE=Dan7373;2514612]In Russian language there is a word 'Poklonnik'. It literally translates into English as 'worshipper'. But its actual meaning is that of a guy worshipping the ass of a hot lass...
There is no equivalent word for this in the English language. [/QUOTE].
[QUOTE=Dan7373;2514612]In Russian language there is a word 'Poklonnik'. It literally translates into English as 'worshipper'. But its actual meaning is that of a guy worshipping the ass of a hot lass.
Poklonnik is a guy who falls for some hot woman and lusts after her with a lot of deference and respect. And he isn't the only one lusting after her pussy and bum. Such a lady usually has many guy liking her and doing favors for her.
Some Russian guys use this word 'Poklonnik' to describe their relationship with a hot sex-worker lady, who does it for money with them. They refer to themselves as this lady's Poklonniks. I've seen the word 'Poklonnik' being used this way in some Russian sex-forums.
There is no equivalent word for this in the English language. Because people in the West usually see sex-work as a kind of commercial transaction. In the West, guys might even feel superior to the sex-worker lady and look down on her. Which is the opposite of being the lady's Poklonnik, where you get down on your knees and worship the ass of your hot lass, like she is doing a favor for you by spreading her cheeks for you.
Perhaps there is a somewhat similar idea in Western culture. It's that of a porn fan. A hot porn-star is a like a sex-goddess for many fans lusting after her. And many fans do admire and desire such ladies. But of course, porn-fans only watch the hot lady's debauch. They don't do any personal favors for the lady. She doesn't meet them and doesn't even know them. So, it's all very impersonal and not quite the same as being a Russian Poklonnik of some hot lady you like.
And for some reason, people in the West don't usually transfer this idea of being the hot lady's fan to sex-worker ladies who actually meet guys and have sex with them. Most people see some fundamental difference between porn-stars and sex-worker ladies who do it for money with guys. It's like porn-stars doing it for money are like sex-goddesses. But similar women doing it for money with ordinary guys are like lowly, fallen women, who perhaps need to be pitied, rather than respected and worshipped.
Perhaps being the lady's Poklonnik isn't the only way Russian men relate to sex-worker ladies. But this is more of a thing in Russia, than in the west. And it's not just guys who see themselves this way. The hot ladies also play their part in response. They see themselves as Beauty Queens who descend from their thrones to play around with cocky bones. Her subjects have a need, and she does the deed. But she is the one superior to them, doing her royal favors for them. And the guys agree with that, even while they pound her sexy butt.[/QUOTE]Poklonnik means "fan. " Just like that. "Ya vash poklonnik" means I'm your fan. This word is usually used when meeting a celebrity (a porn star will qualify, though). It's a bit old-fashioned, and it's not normally used in sexual context, although nothing is impossible.
[QUOTE=Xpartan;2514804]Poklonnik means "fan. " Just like that. "Ya vash poklonnik" means I'm your fan. This word is usually used when meeting a celebrity (a porn star will qualify, though). It's a bit old-fashioned, and it's not normally used in sexual context, although nothing is impossible.[/QUOTE]In English, the word 'fan' comes from the word 'fanatic'. It originated in USA in 1880's, when sports became popular, and many people became sports fanatics, which was shorted to the word 'fans'.
[URL]https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fan[/URL]
But the Russian word 'poklonnik' has much older origins. It originally had religious meaning. It meant worshipper, and it still has this meaning. This word has also acquired sexual meaning. It means that someone is in love with a woman, whom he wants but doesn't have a permanent relationship with. And a common use of this word is where a beautiful woman is surrounded by poklonniks. Which certainly applies to hot women, who do it for money with guys.
[URL]https://slovarozhegova.ru/word.php?wordid=22170[/URL]
So, the origin and the connotation of the Russian word 'poklonnik' is totally different from that of the English word 'fan'. Being a fanatic is totally different from being a worshipper. Fanatic doesn't imply any deference or respect. But the Russian word 'poklonnik' does imply that.
This difference in meaning is lost, when you translate from one language to another. Because if you use Google Translate, then poklonnik does indeed translate into the word 'fan'. But this isn't an accurate translation. Because it changes the meaning and gives it a different connotation.
There is no equivalent word in English, and that's why you get this bad translation. It's the best translation that can be done. But for a Russian guy describing himself as the lady's poklonnik, it clearly means respect and admiration almost bordering on religious worshipping. And this is something English speakers don't get, when they translate the word 'poklonnik' into the word 'fan'.
[QUOTE=HarvestBoi;2514744]I believe what you are describing is termed a lapdog in English. It doesn't have a very good connotation. It may be different in Russia.
[/QUOTE]Yes, I agree. The English word 'lapdog' captures more meaning of the word 'poklonnik', than the word 'fan'.
But lapdog isn't an accurate translation either. Because this word implies disrespect for the guy worshipping the lady. It's like his behavior is inappropriate, and he shouldn't be doing that.
'Lapdog' is something other people say about a guy. It's not a word that a guy would use to describe himself. And a hot lady wouldn't normally say that she surrounded by lapdogs as a way of liking and accepting this situation.
But the Russian word 'poklonnik' doesn't have any such bad meaning either for the guy or for the lady. So, guys readily describe themselves as the hot lady's poklonniks. And when someone tells the hot woman that she surrounded by poklonniks, then this is a complement for her, rather than some kind of a joke to laugh at. Both the guys and the lady accept their roles in this kind of a relationship. And that's what makes the word 'poklonnik' different from the word 'lapdog'.
I think the reason why Russians have the word 'poklonnik' but the English don't have an equivalent word is because such relationships exist in Russian society between hot women and guys, but in the English world such relationships don't exist. So, this is really a difference in culture and relationships, rather than just a difference in language.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2514704]My meaning was a man who is not able to bring money to his woman, is not a real man for many Russian women. In France, many women are proud to be independent, making their own money.[/QUOTE]When a woman is independent and is making her own money, then guys often feel uncomfortable with that. Because they have nothing to offer to the lady in a way of trade and exchange. It's like why would she choose you and not someone else? And why would she want to stay with you, if you have any kind of serious disagreement?
I haven't been in France, but I've seen proud and independent women marrying guys in another place. They were older white women marrying much younger, good-looking, big and tall black guys, who came to their country as temporary agricultural workers. These were the kind of guys that an older, not so-good-looking woman might want but never get under any other circumstances.
A guy who can't be the breadwinner for the family isn't a 'real man' in most places. This isn't just a Russian thing. It's like this almost everywhere. That's why economic insecurity, where women normally work and earn their own money, usually leads to decreased marriage rates and decreased birth rates. And of course, it's all relative. Because it's not whether the guy is earning any money or not. It's whether he is earning more money than the woman or not. If the woman earns more money than a lot of guys, then a lot of guys aren't real men for her, and she has trouble finding someone.
But even economically insecure guys often have some disposable income that they can spend at one time or another. And when there are economically insecure women who also need the money, then these ladies and guys are a good match for each other for short-term relationships. That's how sex-work arises and thrives.
The point is that the word 'poklonnik' in today's Russian is mostly used as in "I'm your fan," when you're being introduced to a celebrity of any kind. It's the most precise CURRENT interpretation despite not being a literal translation. Otherwise, 'poklonnik' is an old-fashioned word rarely used in real-life conversations.
I probably should've mentioned that Russian is my native language, but I didn't expect such an elaborate argument, LOL.
I'm not going to argue about the old-book usage of this word (although even then it wasn't used sexually, but in romantic context).
Lapdog? That would be 'ruchnaya sobachka', and it has a very negative, disdainful meaning.
'Poklonnik' has never meant 'god worshipper'. But in this case, I, at least, know where you're coming from. People who worshipped deities in pre-Christian Rus, are called 'idolopoklonnik. ' So there is that.
Back to the Present. Saying to a Russian sex worker "I'm your poklonnik" would sound weird. Russian men would never do that (maybe jokingly). I mean she might give you an "A" for the effort, but there are better ways to compliment a Russian woman.
If you insist, here is how I can imagine using this word in real life.
If you keep coming to a brothel picking the same regular every time, you might say eventually: "Here I am -- your loyal poklonnik. ".
And BTW, 'poklonnik' easily and literally translates to English. It's 'admirer'.
[URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talents_and_Admirers[/URL]
[QUOTE=Dan7373;2514833]In English, the word 'fan' comes from the word 'fanatic'. It originated in USA in 1880's, when sports became popular, and many people became sports fanatics, which was shorted to the word 'fans'.
[URL]https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fan[/URL]
But the Russian word 'poklonnik' has much older origins. It originally had religious meaning. It meant worshipper, and it still has this meaning. This word has also acquired sexual meaning. It means that someone is in love with a woman, whom he wants but doesn't have a permanent relationship with. And a common use of this word is where a beautiful woman is surrounded by poklonniks. Which certainly applies to hot women, who do it for money with guys.
[URL]https://slovarozhegova.ru/word.php?wordid=22170[/URL]
So, the origin and the connotation of the Russian word 'poklonnik' is totally different from that of the English word 'fan'. Being a fanatic is totally different from being a worshipper. Fanatic doesn't imply any deference or respect. But the Russian word 'poklonnik' does imply that.
This difference in meaning is lost, when you translate from one language to another. Because if you use Google Translate, then poklonnik does indeed translate into the word 'fan'. But this isn't an accurate translation. Because it changes the meaning and gives it a different connotation.
There is no equivalent word in English, and that's why you get this bad translation. It's the best translation that can be done. But for a Russian guy describing himself as the lady's poklonnik, it clearly means respect and admiration almost bordering on religious worshipping. And this is something English speakers don't get, when they translate the word 'poklonnik' into the word 'fan'.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Dan7373;2514848]When a woman is independent and is making her own money, then guys often feel uncomfortable with that. Because they have nothing to offer to the lady in a way of trade and exchange. It's like why would she choose you and not someone else? And why would she want to stay with you, if you have any kind of serious disagreement?
I haven't been in France, but I've seen proud and independent women marrying guys in another place. They were older white women marrying much younger, good-looking, big and tall black guys, who came to their country as temporary agricultural workers. These were the kind of guys that an older, not so-good-looking woman might want but never get under any other circumstances.
A guy who can't be the breadwinner for the family isn't a 'real man' in most places. This isn't just a Russian thing. It's like this almost everywhere. That's why economic insecurity, where women normally work and earn their own money, usually leads to decreased marriage rates and decreased birth rates. And of course, it's all relative. Because it's not whether the guy is earning any money or not. It's whether he is earning more money than the woman or not. If the woman earns more money than a lot of guys, then a lot of guys aren't real men for her, and she has trouble finding someone.
But even economically insecure guys often have some disposable income that they can spend at one time or another. And when there are economically insecure women who also need the money, then these ladies and guys are a good match for each other for short-term relationships. That's how sex-work arises and thrives.[/QUOTE]But when many Russian women love money more than everything else, so, even Russian women are among the prettiest with highest care for themselves and most elegant with really attractive Slavian charm, some being fire in bed, but not so interesting than many independent women making their own money, but looking for love, pleasure to feel woman, and choose you and ask you for this, and if you are able to take care of her to make her feel woman, then you are her one, not your money. Russian women look for money because they know they are woman, independent women look for feeling woman, more interesting playfield to make them feel, than just paying for a woman.
[QUOTE=Sirioja;2515325] Russian women are among the prettiest with highest care for themselves and most elegant with really attractive Slavian charm they look for money because they know they are woman, independent women look for feeling woman, more interesting playfield to make them feel, than just paying for a woman[/QUOTE]This was simple yet very deep. An eye-opener for me to be honest.