Thread Starter
Printable View
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]...
BTW, here's a general tip for all those guys who walk in the bars and "wai" the staff and the girls: stop doing it. It's really not appropriate and you look like jerks for doing it.[/QUOTE]That's something that would belong here. I see it daily in my bar - customers "wai"ing to the girls, and the girls giggling afterwards.
Giotto
i am newbie to the thailand forum as i usually do my mongering in cuba,i'm trying to learn thru reading the forum b4 my arrive in 4 weeks.
LOS-land of smiles
FL---?
what is "wai"
each place here has it's own sayings & to be more helpful,a general guide of short forms would be to newbies to the thailand board,instead of the ever so popular & rude at times--RTFF
thank you very much friends & happy hunting
[QUOTE=Member #3200]...
what is "wai"
[/QUOTE]Member #3200,
Result of a fast google (better some specialists describe the "wai"):
[URL]http://www.1stopchiangmai.com/how_to/wai[/URL]
Giotto
[QUOTE=Member #3200]i am newbie to the thailand forum as i usually do my mongering in cuba,i'm trying to learn thru reading the forum b4 my arrive in 4 weeks.
LOS-land of smiles
FL---?
what is "wai"
each place here has it's own sayings & to be more helpful,a general guide of short forms would be to newbies to the thailand board,instead of the ever so popular & rude at times--RTFF
thank you very much friends & happy hunting[/QUOTE]
wai = traditional Thai greeting. Put hands together, as if in prayer, place the thumbs in your solar plexis so that the tips of your fingers are touching your chin, and bow slightly. it is meant for those of equal social status (in which case the bow can be dispensed with) and more importantly for those of higher social status. If the person is of much higher social status (such as a boss), thumbs go in the groove above your lip, so the that tips of the fingers are touching just above the "third eye" (between the eyebrows). The 2 additional forms of the wai are of little use to foreigners unless, a/ you plan to visit a monk, b/ you plan to meet the King.
Don't EVER...wai children, bargirls, barstaff, maids, shop people, hotel receptionists, flight attendants or basically anyone below you in status. It embarasses Thais and makes you look like a dope.
To what extent is Thai culture the real thing?
I found that often the Thai girls fall back on Thai culture as a bastion in order not to allow the male visitor from engaging in something with the Thai girl. It seems to be like somekind of modesty protection for Thai girls.
For example, try as hard as I wished to get physically close to a Thai girl whom I knew after dating her for several months, she would not even physically hold my hand. Her defence : that it is not in keeping with Thai culture for a girl to physically touch a man.
Like the time when I was visiting her alma mater. I was not alert while trying to make a walk across the road. She caught my shirt sleeve between her index and middle finger and pulled me away from an oncoming vehicle. I was stunned for a moment or two when she did that. Apparently she meant what she said.
And back at the Office, I would always hear the Office girls repeat to me, "Mei dai, mei dai Khun Pete. Thai culture don't allow it", to a point where I began to feel that hailing their Thai culture was becoming an impediment to ever being a normal human in that country.
[QUOTE=PeterPanCan]To what extent is Thai culture the real thing?
I found that often the Thai girls fall back on Thai culture as a bastion in order not to allow the male visitor from engaging in something with the Thai girl. It seems to be like somekind of modesty protection for Thai girls.
For example, try as hard as I wished to get physically close to a Thai girl whom I knew after dating her for several months, she would not even physically hold my hand. Her defence : that it is not in keeping with Thai culture for a girl to physically touch a man.
Like the time when I was visiting her alma mater. I was not alert while trying to make a walk across the road. She caught my shirt sleeve between her index and middle finger and pulled me away from an oncoming vehicle. I was stunned for a moment or two when she did that. Apparently she meant what she said.
And back at the Office, I would always hear the Office girls repeat to me, "Mei dai, mei dai Khun Pete. Thai culture don't allow it", to a point where I began to feel that hailing their Thai culture was becoming an impediment to ever being a normal human in that country.[/QUOTE]
Well, I essentially think this is bollocks (not what you're saying). But, what the girls were saying to you. It's true that there are some TGs that still adhere to the old-fashioned ways. Oddly enough, many come from Isaan, the source of most BGs.
But, in my experience, EVERY TG is available, even the "good girls". I've never been refused by any that I've made a move on and I'm most certainly not exactly Don Juan. But, the thing is that the culture requires that a good TG put up a front to show they're good girls.
I'll give you an example. I used to have a class of girls and one girl was ostracized by the others because she was honest, i.e. spoke about staying over-night with her BF. The other girls feined shock and wouldn't talk to her, or even work with her in class projects etc. etc. They'd say things like, "I'm a good girl. I don't drink or smoke or go out to the disco. I don't even have a BF." and so on.
One night I was out at Route 66 at RCA and who should I run into, but the so-called "good girls" off their faces drunk, dancing they asses off, and making out with their "non-BFs". Needless-to-say, that on Monday morning in class, they were a little subdued.
There is a double-standard here that requires a certain type of behaviour on the part of women. But, that doesn't mean that they in reality adhere to this.
Finally, I'd like to add that there is still a stigma being seen to associate with a Farang. This is changing rapidly, especially in Bangkok. But, in some more tradition-bound families, especially HiSo families and in certain conservative parts of the country, a girl is damned if she's involved in anyway with a Farang.
[QUOTE=PeterPanCan]
Until someone must have discreetly related this to the person in charge of Human Resouce Department. I was summoned to the Head of HR Department and was told not to return a "wai" (like you just said) to any person who is below me in status.
[/QUOTE]
That brings up a question I'd like to ask. As a foreigner, is there a typical way of assessing your personal status relative to other thais? Obviously, your status is higher than servants, but it gets a little unclear (to me) with regard to normal everyday folks, professional and business associates.
Cheers,
Fox Two
[QUOTE=Fox Two]That brings up a question I'd like to ask. As a foreigner, is there a typical way of assessing your personal status relative to other thais? Obviously, your status is higher than servants, but it gets a little unclear (to me) with regard to normal everyday folks, professional and business associates.
Cheers,
Fox Two[/QUOTE]
Simple. If they are colleagues, and younger, wait until they wai you and then wai them back. If they are older, wai them first.
If you're concerned about what to do in the general population, basically consider as a Farang, you're above almost everyone, (except the HiSo crowd), and so they should all, young and old alike wai you. If they don't (and many don't), you most certainly shouldn't wai them. if you happen to run with the HiSo crowd, just act like you're one of them; i.e. the mutual wai.
I conplained to my students that they will wai a Thai professor right in front of me, but don't wai me. They said, "You're a Farang. We didn't think you would want or expect it. Do you want us to wai you?" Then one of the girls (a real cutie, actually) who went to International school before university said, "We always just hugged our Farang teacher in high school. Do you want us to do that?" and she gave me a little sexy, wink. So, I may have to select option 2. LOL
Difficult one, this one.
A while back, I was in the VIP section of the Thai restaurant at Don Muang Domestic Terminal (don't ask why, it's a long, boring story). The clientele of this nice little enclave consisted of myself and my travel party, and a large group of khun Thai. About 15 minutes after the large group of khun Thai entered, two suits and two armed forces fatigues entered. Khun Thai all stood up and applauded the suits voraciously. The suits humbly acknowledged the applause and gestured their bodyguards to take their ease and, I presume, order some food, which said bodyguards did whilst thanking the suits profusely.
My first question is: Would the suits be armed forces or civilians?
My second (presumptious) question is: If the suits were governing politicians, would Thai society show the same respect after the suits' government had been ousted? What would the suits' positions be in the orthodox Thai heirarchy in this situation?
[QUOTE=Terry Terrier]Difficult one, this one.
A while back, I was in the VIP section of the Thai restaurant at Don Muang Domestic Terminal (don't ask why, it's a long, boring story). The clientele of this nice little enclave consisted of myself and my travel party, and a large group of khun Thai. About 15 minutes after the large group of khun Thai entered, two suits and two armed forces fatigues entered. Khun Thai all stood up and applauded the suits voraciously. The suits humbly acknowledged the applause and gestured their bodyguards to take their ease and, I presume, order some food, which said bodyguards did whilst thanking the suits profusely.
My first question is: Would the suits be armed forces or civilians?
My second (presumptious) question is: If the suits were governing politicians, would Thai society show the same respect after the suits' government had been ousted? What would the suits' positions be in the orthodox Thai heirarchy in this situation?[/QUOTE]
The suits would most likely be government, not military.
It depends on who they were, meaning both the politicians and the Thais. If the politicians were TRT, and the Thais were Bangkok Thais, it's unlikely that they would have applauded even if TRT were still in power. Maybe the suits were something else, Democrats or the Governor of Bangkok, who's very popular. It's hard to answer the question, really. Politicians, even recently ousted rich ones have been booed by people of lower rank to them. If a Thai was confronted one on one with a politician, they would probably wai first, out of respect, even if not liking the politician just because of their position. But, it would also depend on the Thai's status. I know lots of HiSo Thais who would never have wai'ed Taksin when he was Prime Minister because they considered him below them in social status. Taksin is Chinese, not even Thai-Chinese, so is viewed by many true middle and upper-class Thais as not warranting respect. When Thais are in-doubt about when to wai, and it happens, they just end up wai-ing almost simultaneously. I see it happen all the time.
Pete
"The fact that you've already been in Thailand and still don't know what a "wai" is, clearly shows you need help. BTW. It's that funny thing Thais do with their hands when they greet you."
Mate, of course I know what it is, I just didn't know what it was called and couldn't be arsed looking it up when I was tired.
It seems as though I will be recognised as a monger immediately by the entire Thai population when I am with my BG. Fair enough.
Now, tell me this. In two cases of no chance of a return match, my BG walked with me hand in hand as I dropped them off, actually three cases.
Having been fucked and being paid, are these girls not embarassed by being identified as prostitutes, or are they professionals, or do they just not care?
Shit, even my little 21 year old who I spent those days with held my hand on the Bhat busses and snuggled up with me. I was a bit embarassed for her- me a 42 yo white guy, she a 21 yo Thai girl, but yet she did it!
I don't expect you or anyone to be able to understand individual behaviour, but I just wondered what the take is on how BGs act with you and how you can make the experience as hassle free and acceptable as possible?
Am I making sense? Probably not- shouldn't have had those beers after a double shift. If anyone can understand what I am getting at, can i have the benefit of your wisdom please?
Pete
[QUOTE=Petemcc]Pete <...>
It seems as though I will be recognised as a monger immediately by the entire Thai population when I am with my BG. Fair enough.
Now, tell me this. In two cases of no chance of a return match, my BG walked with me hand in hand as I dropped them off, actually three cases.
Having been fucked and being paid, are these girls not embarassed by being identified as prostitutes, or are they professionals, or do they just not care?
Shit, even my little 21 year old who I spent those days with held my hand on the Bhat busses and snuggled up with me. I was a bit embarassed for her- me a 42 yo white guy, she a 21 yo Thai girl, but yet she did it!
I don't expect you or anyone to be able to understand individual behaviour, but I just wondered what the take is on how BGs act with you and how you can make the experience as hassle free and acceptable as possible?
Am I making sense? Probably not- shouldn't have had those beers after a double shift. If anyone can understand what I am getting at, can i have the benefit of your wisdom please?
Pete[/QUOTE]
Pete,
It's probably not so hard to understand: all of us, have our little dreams and fantasies. Perhaps she was just indulging in hers a bit.
In my experience, at least two non-BGs - not at all in or around the business - have acted much more intimtately in public than I would've thought, even 6 months ago. To be sure, both were older than 21, but still... We're talking in very public places like pubs (maybe not such a big deal), but places like bowling alleys. (BTW, take a Thai bowling sometime - it's a hoot!)
BTW, I can't believe you're taking Baht-busses. Taxis are so cheap here, with a companion, I won't even take the BTS or MRT - it ends up being very close in cost (except when traffic conditions warrant).
Cheers,
-Y
[QUOTE=Yi Ren]
In my experience, at least two non-BGs - not at all in or around the business - have acted much more intimtately in public than I would've thought, even 6 months ago. To be sure, both were older than 21, but still... We're talking in very public places like pubs (maybe not such a big deal), but places like bowling alleys. (BTW, take a Thai bowling sometime - it's a hoot!)
Cheers,
-Y[/QUOTE]
The "good" girl I was saw the other night was not afraid to hold my hand in public. She is probably a lot more self confident than most Thai girls though. She works hard and makes good money. She told me she thinks half-Thai and half-farang. But like all Thai girls, more than once she told me she was shy.
I do think there are no real stereotypes. The culture is changing here as in other places. Remember that these girls are exposed to Western TV, movies, books, etc. Think about what gets depicted there as normal. It does rub off. Blanket statements as to what a "good" girl or bar girl is or isn't just don't hold water. Each girl while similar to others, is also unique in her own way. They all hold surprises for the man who takes the time to know them.
[QUOTE=Yi Ren]Pete,
BTW, I can't believe you're taking Baht-busses. Taxis are so cheap here, with a companion, I won't even take the BTS or MRT - it ends up being very close in cost (except when traffic conditions warrant).
Cheers,
Y[/QUOTE]Mate, it was Pattaya and all were 5-10 minute trips maximum on teh Bhat bus routes, so no point in taking a taxi!
Also, the girls who held my hand etc will have been indulging me in my fantasy, and in fact I would be less than a half wit if I thought otherwise, but they, and particularly my 21 YO didn't seem to care about the public image- that was the point I think I was trying to make, but with 10 more beers inside me than now!