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[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Wow. So I guess by sticking with the 'official' number of 75,000, they're only really admitting to the existence of the Farang-oriented industry, not the local industry?
Do you think that's just a cheeky attempt to make the 'problem' look smaller than it is, or is there perhaps a distinction made in Thai society between the Farang market and the Thai market? You know...servicing tourists seen as more of a commercial enterprise, whereas women (of a certain class) servicing locals is, I don't know, an expectation? A duty? A tradition?[/QUOTE]
The Thais like to blame the Farang for the existence of the sex industry. The visibility of it makes it quite easy to point a finger. Ironically, the power elite own large segments of the sex industry, have made their wealth from it and the true origins, if one wants to point a finger can be laid at the feet of the Chinese.
As an interesting sidebar, the Thais had brothels attached to their temples 500 years ago. Of course, revisionist historians and cultural defenders don't like to be reminded of this.
[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Actually, on that note, is there a difference in the way sex workers are treated in Thai society depending on whether they work in the Farang or Thai sectors?[/QUOTE]
The ones from the Farang-oriented industry might be treated better on the surface because they have money. But, just below the surface, they are universally vilified by all levels of Thai society. Such is Thai hypocricy.
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[QUOTE=Bumholes1]Probably 1 million + occasional prostitutes - ie once a month or less. Regular prostitutes, (full time bar, massage or brothel workers) and street girls likely to be around 500,000.[/QUOTE]
In western society we have a lot of girls who just go out and pick someone up for some casual sex.
I think this is less prevalent in Thailand (due to culture). So the majority of girls going to a pick up place will be looking for some financial help (and needing it). And yet these girls can be very choosy about who they go with, in many cases going empty handed because they didn't like the guys who approached.
In many cases no money was discussed with me at all. They were too shy. On the other hand they did not refuse to accept money when leaving and sometimes were surprised that I was reasonably generous. Many of these girls were very much part timers and only going out when short of money. So there are very large numbers of casual P4P girls that have regular jobs as well (or maybe between jobs) and may well be able to keep their P4P status secret. However girls will often be suspected of being some old man's 2nd wife (or 3rd).
One Thai girl I know, who has lived abroad for many years, picked up a Thai man in a BKK club, and although she wasn't expecting him to pay, was very shocked when found that he was expecting her to pay. She claimed he was lousy too.
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[QUOTE=Bumholes1]Unlikely to be a joke! Will you go without for a year? I doubt it, especially if it is handed to you on a plate. Why should she? Women used to be about keeping their men happy, but nowadays they consider themselves, and unless there is something wrong with her, she will have a hungry pussy many times during the next year!
There are 10 Thai girls in my village with either husband or boyfriend away, all sending money regularly. And every one of them has another man! As Trink would say TIT[/QUOTE]
My girl may or may not have a gig, I am not to know or care. I know enough to know it is a possiblity. Maybe OTH's girl also has a gig as may Mick Lickers girl, can either of them be sure. I have meet a number of girls in my travels that have foreign husbands and local boyfriends, I even know a girl that has two Thai boyfriends in the same city.
But in saying that I know girls that are only interested in have one husband/boyfriend. It all depends on the girl I guess.
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SE Asain woman can NOT deepthroat!. That is all. Return to your regularlly scheduled postings!:D
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[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]....
Actually, on that note, is there a difference in the way sex workers are treated in Thai society depending on whether they work in the Farang or Thai sectors?[/QUOTE]
I don't know if Thai society treats them any different. But I've seen how Thai men treat P4P ladies in Thailand. And it was a lot different from the way Farangs treat them.
The Thai P4P lady I knew worked at a road-side restaurant near a small town in north-east Thailand. And some of the Thai men who stopped there apparently wanted more than just the food service from her. Which she was willing to provide.
I was sitting in that restaurant. And I've seen how one Thai man wooed this P4P lady. Basically, he tried to show his generosity by buying some expensive dishes, including alcoholic beverages for himself and her. And he treated her like a beautiful lady (which she was) with respect and some admiration.
A year later I've heard about this P4P lady that she listened to some people's advice and went to Pattaya to try her hand with the farangs. And she couldn't stand it. She left Pattaya and went back to her P4P work with Thai men.
The Thai men didn't pay her as much as farangs did. But she prefered the Thai men anyway. Perhaps the farangs were a little too business-like for her. And they didn't show her enough respect.
But on another note. My impression is that there isn't any clear separation in Thailand between P4P ladies and those who are not. Any single Thai lady is fair game for Thai men, when she is alone without any male escort. And if she is attractive enough. Then she gets plenty of offers from the men all the time, whether they can pay her or not. And whether she accepts these offers or not is often a matter of whether she can do it in a discreet way without ruining her reputation. A lady who is travelling far away from her home village is more likely to accept such offers.
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[QUOTE=Dan7373]My impression is that there isn't any clear separation in Thailand between P4P ladies and those who are not. Any single Thai lady is fair game for Thai men, when she is alone without any male escort. [/QUOTE]
There is a separation but you may not be looking at the country conceptually which is why you made the statement above. Hookers always stand out in any society, they act different, they look different and their make up change after being involved in the life for any prolong period and their views and thinking change. Of course there are exceptions and this issue has been discussed here many times but many posters who will tell you there are vast contrasts between Thai hookers and regular Thai women and in my experience I have also found this to be true but then again it would be true in any society or country.
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[QUOTE=Run Mann] Hookers always stand out in any society, they act different, they look different and their make up change after being involved in the life for any prolong period and their views and thinking change....[/QUOTE]
Many single women in Thailand do some hooking until they get married. And their hooking period may not be that prolonged, especially if the lady is attractive.
I'm sure you can find ladies at both extremes of the hooking spectrum. Those who are very professional and go all out to make money from men. And those who hook reluctantly, only when the men are persistent enough with them. But there also are plenty of women who are in between these two extremes.
The reason why westerners insist on a clear separation between P4P ladies and those who are not is perhaps due their cultural conditioning in the West.
Most western women never hook for money directly. And only some western women do. But there is no reason why people of other cultures must have the same mind-set as the westerners have. And in many cases, such as in Thailand, they don't have such a mind-set.
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[QUOTE=Dan7373]Many single women in Thailand do some hooking until they get married.
[/QUOTE]
You are making this claim based on what?
[QUOTE=Dan7373]
The reason why westerners insist on a clear separation between P4P ladies and those who are not is perhaps due their cultural conditioning in the West.
[/QUOTE]
I'd say there are many Thai women who want and insist on the separation, they don't want to be grouped with the P4P women for obvious reasons. Most westerners (men) probably don't want the separation for even more obvious reasons.
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[QUOTE=Run Mann]There is a separation but you may not be looking at the country conceptually which is why you made the statement above. Hookers always stand out in any society, they act different, they look different and their make up change after being involved in the life for any prolong period and their views and thinking change. Of course there are exceptions and this issue has been discussed here many times but many posters who will tell you there are vast contrasts between Thai hookers and regular Thai women and in my experience I have also found this to be true but then again it would be true in any society or country.[/QUOTE]
Of course these women are 'in character' when they are in their working environments, and most of them will stand out at least a little even when they are going about their non-work-related daily business in places like Bangkok and Patts. But put them back in their home towns in the provinces and it's a very different story. So much money, for several generations, has entered these regions from Luk/Nid/Noy's daughter going working away from home, the lines have become very blurred. The locals tend to be quite blase about it and generally don't care.
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[QUOTE=Run Mann]You are making this claim based on what?[/QUOTE]
I've visited many times and staid in a rice-farming village in Isaan. And through my Thai lady there I got to meet many other Thai women. That's how I know about their pre-marital hooking and their marriages afterwards.
Perhaps you have some difficulty understanding the lack of separation between hookers and non-hookers in Thailand because you focus too much on the women and forget the men's role in it all.
As I said earlier, a single attractive Thai woman out and about on her own is considered fair game by Thai men. Which means that they make lewd suggestions to her at every opportunity, when the social circumstances allow for it. And they don't just ask her to fuck for nothing, the way some westerners do. They offer her some favor or money.
Sooner or later, the attractive lady is going to see something in the store that she wants to buy but doesn't have the money for it. Sooner or later she might need some favor from a man. And sooner or later she will happen to be a little in the mood for sex due to her hormonal changes.
And unlike in the West, this lady doesn't need to paint herself up, dress in outrageously revealing clothing, and stand on the street corner to attract the men. She already knows many men who have an outstanding order for sex with her. These men keep reminding her about it all the time. All she needs to do is say 'yes' to one of them. The deed will be done without much trouble for her. And she will get what she wants.
In the West, it's considered a great insult to mistake an ordinary woman for a hooker. And most western men are extremely careful not to make such mistakes. That's why it's so difficult and unusual for western women to do P4P. Western women don't get many offers from men, unless these women really advertise themselves as hookers to everyone. And not many western women are willing to do that and spoil their reputation as a result.
But in Thailand, it's all a matter of putting up a good appearance. If the horny Thai man discreetly offers P4P to a lady he likes. Then there is no insult to her. An insult occurs only when the man is so indiscreet about it that their interaction becomes too obvious and unambiguous for others. The lady looses her face as a result. And that's why she feels insulted.
It's the behavior of men that makes all the difference between Thailand and the West. Western men clearly and rigidly separate women into hookers and non-hookers in their minds and in their behavior. But Thai men tend to see all unatached women as potential P4P ladies. And since men are usually dominant in male-female relationships. It's the men who create their P4P reality both in the West and in Thailand.
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[QUOTE=Dan7373] ... As I said earlier, a single attractive Thai woman out and about on her own is considered fair game by Thai men. Which means that they make lewd suggestions to her at every opportunity, when the social circumstances allow for it. And they don't just ask her to fuck for nothing, the way some westerners do. They offer her some favor or money...
...But in Thailand, it's all a matter of putting up a good appearance. If the horny Thai man discreetly offers P4P to a lady he likes. Then there is no insult to her. An insult occurs only when the man is so indiscreet about it that their interaction becomes too obvious and unambiguous for others. The lady looses her face as a result. And that's why she feels insulted.
.[/QUOTE]
Very interesting! Does this apply to westerners too?
Do you mean that older farangs like me can whisper lewd suggestions into the ears of pretty young Thai waitresses or shop girls, including promises of money, and they will not feel insulted as long as the propositions are discrete?
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[QUOTE=Dan7373]I've visited many times and staid in a rice-farming village in Isaan. And through my Thai lady there I got to meet many other Thai women. That's how I know about their pre-marital hooking and their marriages afterwards.[/QUOTE]
All this knowledge based on many VISITS and staying in an Isaan farming village. My, my, you have an incredilbe incite into the greater Thai female population, don't you?
Dan, you've only run with one limited sector of the female population in one locale and as an outsider (no matter how many times you've been here).
Making blanket statements about Thai women with your incredibly narrow-focused experience is, to say the least inaccurate and incredibly biased.
Just as Isaan women (not Thai, by the way) are a particular breed and quite apart from women in other areas of the country, (Lanna women in the north, different from central plains Thai women, different from southern Thai-Chinese/Thai-Malay women, different from Bangkok Thai-Chinese women, different from Indian-Thai women) so too are Isaan men different from Thai men elsewhere. Then, there's also the differences in Isaan itself between poor rice farmers and urban and middle-class Isaan people, between women from the different provinces and between Isaan-Lao and Isaan-Khmer.
It's obvious the type of people with whom you've had experience are poor and from the lower classes. Isaan men from that strata are generally pretty much scum. Maybe they can whisper lewd suggestions into the ear of some poor and needy Isaan farm-girl and get a response and therefore think that all Isaan women are fair game. But, I can tell you that if they try it with an Isaan woman who doesn't need their money, or a Thai girl from somewhere else, or from a higher social strata, they're going to get shut down so fast, it'll make their heads spin.
Before you set yourself up as some expert on Thai women and Thai men, I suggest you widen your area of experience and actually try to discover how diverse this country and it's women (and men) are.
And, BTW. I've lived here going on 12 years, have dated women from just about every corner of the country, from every strata of society and I'm still discovering new things all the time about the country and it's people.
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[QUOTE=Daddy07]Very interesting! Does this apply to westerners too?
Do you mean that older farangs like me can whisper lewd suggestions into the ears of pretty young Thai waitresses or shop girls, including promises of money, and they will not feel insulted as long as the propositions are discrete?[/QUOTE]
I think that's what he meant. Believe me, waitresses and shop girls are hit on times and times again by Westerners, I see it all the time, Old men constantly flirting with the Thai girls. I am sure they do it for a reason: it works.
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[QUOTE=NicFrenchy]I think that's what he meant. Believe me, waitresses and shop girls are hit on times and times again by Westerners, I see it all the time, Old men constantly flirting with the Thai girls. I am sure they do it for a reason: it works.[/QUOTE]
Yes. Nic. But, these girl are probably all in need of money/patronage. A good friend of mine met his wife at Robinson's on Silom. She was working on the make-up counter, he spotted her, chatted her up and the rest is history. Another friend dated one of the waitresses at Robin Hood for awhile. One of my long term GFs here (4 years) was a waitress at a famous seafood restuarant on Rachada. In ever case, financial consideration played a part.
Move up a notch or two on the social ladder, even if still dealing with those in the service industry or trade and you'll get a very different response. My GF works at a top 5 star hotel in BKK. She tells me that she and her staff are constantly hit on by Farang. But, there's absolutely no interest at all. The thing she finds the most curious is that the Farang, when rejected seemed genuinely surprised and shocked, as if it's a foregone conclusion that every TG would want to be with them.
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[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]All this knoweldge based on many VISITS and staying in an Isaan farming village. My, my, you have an incredilbe incite into the greater Thai female population, don't you?
[QUOTE=Old Thai Hand]Dan, you've only run with one limited sector of the female population in one locale and as an outsider (no matter how many times you've been here).
Making blanket statements about Thai women with your incredibly narrow-focused experience is, to say the least inaccurate and incredibly biased.
Just as Isaan women (not Thai, by the way) are a particular breed and quite apart from women in other areas of the country, (Lanna women in the north, different from central plains Thai women, different from southern Thai-Chinese/Thai-Malay women, different from Bangkok Thai-Chinese women, different from Indian-Thai women) so too are Isaan men different from Thai men elsewhere. Then, there's also the differences in Isaan itself between poor rice farmers and urban and middle-class Isaan people, between women from the different provinces and between Isaan-Lao and Isaan-Khmer.[/QUOTE]
What an extraordinary post! OTH finally acknowledges that Thailand is not a country populated by pre-programmed robots that all fit into identikit images. Welcome to the real world OTH. It's technicolor, not black and white.