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Pupsnu,
You are correct, the Kievescort site is up but the problem is not the prices. That is another story although I would enjoy meeting with a few of their ladies. The real problem is that their phones, local and mobile are shut off. Now and for the last few days, at least, there has been no way to get in contact with them. I just called a minute ago and the same messages came on.
Lots of saunas here with and without the ladies. You can bring in your own, you can ask the sauna if they have a "delivery" service, many of them do, or you can even call one of the "nannie" services in the back of the free advertising paper called RIO and have them come to you. I am not a big fan of saunas, I have gone a few times but it is not my way to enjoy the ladies.
As a start, since you say you know Russian, go to this site that lists most, if not all the saunas in Kiev. http://prosex.com.ua/spravka/sauna.php
I will try and get you a list of some of the more interesting and reliable saunas later. There is no need to reserve unless you have a big party or have special needs or it is a weekend night.
Once you get here, also get one of those complete Kiev Street Atlas books that will help you locate these places. It is in almost all in Ukrainian but does have a good 10 pages of street and building details of the center in English. I recommend this to anyone coming here and trying to get their way around town. Very good and very detailed.
My suggestion is to not try and blend in since that will likely end in failure. No matter how slight the accent, you still have one and you will be asked where you are from. Better to be who you are, tell them if they ask and then you will likely bowl them over. Much more impressive and a better way to connect, it would be the best method of meeting ladies who will instantly want to speak with you about everything, most of all about you and how you learned Russian. Your chances would be immeasurably enhanced. I suspect you may not even get near any sauna!
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To change the subject from language to something a lot more serious. Just so you all understand that this is not a risk-free area. The same is true of Russia. This is not to scare you away, just to make you aware.
The problems today really are mostly amongst drug users and former prisoners (the TB issue) but it is slowly spreading into the general populace.
Ukraine Leader Takes Loan to Fight AIDS
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: December 3, 2003
Filed at 10:22 a.m. ET
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) -- Ukraine's president accepted a $60 million World Bank loan on Wednesday to fight AIDS and tuberculosis in this former Soviet republic.
Ukrainian President Leonid Kuchma's approval came after the bank agreed to provide the funds to prevent and control the two diseases that have spread rapidly since the collapse of the Soviet Union.
Ukraine, is the epicenter of the AIDS epidemic in Eastern Europe, has the highest HIV infection rate in the region. An estimated 500,000 people -- 1 percent of the population -- are infected.
The Health Ministry said this month that more than 60,000 Ukrainians are officially registered as HIV-positive, but the United Nations estimates actual infection rates to be 10 times higher.
Intravenous drug use has helped to fuel the spread of AIDS.
Tuberculosis cases in Ukraine have doubled in recent years to almost 700,000, and the death rate from the disease is mounting, Interfax reported citing health officials.
Ukraine's post-Soviet economic meltdown and the degradation of its state-run health care system have contributed to the spread of both diseases.
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Avoiding to change this in a filological forum....
but... Doctor Skank, I NEVER said that Italians are able to learn foreign languages better! I said that, generally, Italians help theirselves with hands, signs, face movements..... much more than other Nations.
And thanks to you all for the info
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RIC,
I'll drop the subject as well and leave room for the Ukraine experts to use the forum for its intended purpose, but do allow me to agree that Italians are excellent at expressing themselves regardless of language and trying to communicate in any way possible rather than being shy wall flowers and we can all learn one thing from the Italians, they know how to make women feel special and making a woman feel special (even if just for a night) is a fantastic way to awaken her sexually.
All guys on the Ukraine board, thanks for all the good info and keep it coming.
Ciao
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RIC,
Your first trip to Ukraine. You've received some really good advice here, but the following has not been said yet. One old G to another, as it were. Apart from the odd "bon mot" in Russian, they all react incredibly well if you give flowers (works especially well if you hand them over before telling 'em you want their body) :-) :-) More so in Russian-culture countries than in others, I find. I guess this applies especially to your unpaid ambitions (FTF - like it!), but why not all of them? These are usually girls with pretty romantic hearts.
BUT, BUT, BUT. Only an odd number of flowers (1,3,5,7,etc). Even numbers (2,4,6) signify death, for example at funerals. This will hopefully only apply to your physical state towards the end of your 18 days :-) :-)
Don't fall hopelessly in love now. It's "dead" easy.
Tosc
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Hi,
I am new member on this board but I have visited Ukraine and many Eastern European countries, Latin American and Asian countries, can speak some Russian, and had some nice girls to help me around on my trip to Ukraine.
I read through this board but I don't understand a few things:
1: What is a semipro?
2: Is a semipro half the usual fullpro rate? Why do they give special half price offers? Some kind of quiet period promo?:)
3: What is a sponsor girl? Somebody mentioned a site where you can sponsor a sex slave? What is the site?
4: Some of you guys seem to be able to score multiple girls every night even when you just met, i.e. vegamars and cundum, so how do you identify an easy girl?
5: For student amateurs, and shyer girls you just met but friendly with you, where?, when? and how? do you propose sex?
Thanks for any info. I will be going to Ukarine again soon and will try out you guys advice then give a report.
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Hi guys,
I am planning a trip and trying to pick up a few more words and phrases of Russian.
For a first time visitor to Ukraine I assume it is pointless trying to learn any Ukrainian - just stick to Russian? OK i am one of those that knows about 50 words, but all learned before and during just one visit to Russia!
The phrases posted on here recently - are they Russian or Ukrainian? Has anyone got time to post a few useful 'cute' phrases which may help all us desperately trying to get to grips with enough Russian to survive a trip to this fascinating country!
Many, many thanks in advance to anyone who'd got the time.
By the way - would it be worth going to Odessa in March after Kiev, or is there somewhere better to go?
Cheers all,
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Pupsnu,
Since you are a "local" head for this site. It is all in Russian, giving ratings and reviews for the saunas. The most famous is of course the infamous multiplex known as Resttown. But as you will see from the site, there are also lots of others.
http://www.kievsex.com/kievinfo/?id=2
Your having been born in Kiev does change the dynamic. I don't know your present age but your English is such that you likely left as a child likely no more than 8-10 years old. I guess you are also now a US citizen.
I am not sure why you are even asking any of us for advice, to be honest. It all depends on what your reasons are for coming here. My first thought is of course family/nostalgia but your coming to this forum, that is not the sole reason. Is it sex only, is it a relationship, is it Lord know what else? You have the best of all worlds here as a returnee who knows the language and customs (I assume) but also has a non-Ukrainian passport.
If you are young, single, good looking, know both languages I don’t see any problems for you anywhere here.
I am not sure anyone here can help with your real problem which is how the locals will actually look at you and how they will react to you. I am not sure that there are any "locals" as yet on this board. That is something you will only find out when you get here.
Toscana
If you are looking at wooing a lady, you are absolutely correct, flowers, odd numbers, and the more, the better help big time. Do not also forget the box of chocolates as well as some refreshment in the form of local champagne, quite cheap and good or a bottle or two of wine. The champagne and wines should be semi-sweet. Most folks here hate dry wines or brut champagne.
Sir Knight
If you are heading to Lviv and western Ukraine, then by all means learn some Ukrainian. If you are headed for Kiev, Odessa, Kharkov Crimea or any other place, Russian will do just fine. There are plenty of web sites and guide books that will give you the lowdown on the appropriate phrases.
Odessa is OK in March, but better in June and July. Of all the cities in Ukraine to go to in March, though, it is likely the best choice.
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Uke Boy,
Your comments about language are true about most Westerners, most people just don't take the time to learn. If they don't want to, it's their business and I'm sure they'll get by just fine but I am equally sure they are missing out on a lot of cultural aspects and if they are really into sport sex they are missing out on a large chunk of the market.
As far as having a English-speaking Russian or Ukrainian girlfriend, it can be a wonderful thing and I have found Russian girlfriends to be less money-hungry or anxious to leave Russia than most people assume and Vegamars confirms the same is true of Ukrainian girls, nonetheless always conversing in English will actively prevent you from learning the language. It's like a trap but frankly speaking, it is nearly unavoidable.
To each his own, I really enjoy hearing all the guys opinions on what works for them. The forum and the tips and advice given here have definitely helped me a lot.
Toscana is right on about the flowers. Slavic girls adore surprises as well, but I think that is true of all women.
BTW: I'll be in Kiev in February.
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1 photos
Hey already! C'mon you guys. I mean PLEASE! Da-freaking-vay!
Yes fine, some of the devs love to practice their foreign language training on us genuine foreigners, and yes we all need to fumble our way through the "Oh baby , you're so krasivy and oochin zharka!" lines, for the rest of them that weren't listening in english class. Bla bla!
But really where's the focus here? Where's all your damn sense of urgency? Flowers? Shite, give em the flowers!
Look, maybe I'll get flamed for this, but all I'm saying is, WHERE IS THE SUBJECT MATTER? Isn't it so obvious how badly its missing here? Holiday season's supposed to be about sharing, right?
All right, so that's it! Less talk, more sharing. There's like, I don't know, what, like a million girls, duh?
Little minky Marina wishes you all Happy Mongering Holidays! The girl turned into the tasmanian devil after 6 shots of tequilla. $50, and a banana, she was g.t.g.
Let's see ya try that in Tokyo/Shanghai or London/Paris!
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Theknight,
Below are some phrases, all in Russian. TRUST ME, you do not need Ukrainian. Please note that I am using "ti" which is singular, although a more respectful way to address someone you don't know is "vi" which is plural. So that's up to you to replace.
Here are some:
-ti takaya krasivaya (you are so beautiful)
-U menya duh perehvatilo kogda ya tebya uvidel (I stopped breathing when I saw you)-- I know this is long...but it seems you have few months
-Ti samaya krasivaya zhenschina (you are the most beautiful woman) I could have added "that I have ever seen" but that's way too advanced of Russian
- Mogu li ya tebe kupit drink (can I buy you a drink. Yes, they poisoned the language with whole bunch of english words, so it is drink, just use hard r)
- Davai potantsuem (let's dance)
All right...hopefully that helps. If you need more, PM me
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Doc,
The WSG Moscow Forum is heavily weighted to the paid scene. With all the money coming into that city, it is no surprise that the ladies would also want to take advantage of that as well. The atmosphere is completely do-as-you-want as long as you can pay the price.
If Moscow is New York, then Kiev is more like Kansas City. The paid scene exists but it is not as raucous and overt as it is in Moscow. Part of it is due to more conservative mores. There are working girls here as well, but not as many as in Moscow and harder to find. There are the usual places such as River Palace, Rest Town, and many others mentioned in this forum. There are only a handful of online sites that offer the same services the Moscow sites offer if all you want is a quickie or you are into serial sex with a variety of talents.
However, since Kiev seems to be 3-5 years behind Moscow in most ways, we can only hope for a similar improvement soon in these areas as well. But it seems to me that guys coming here are much less geared to the paid scene (go to Moscow if that is really all that you want) but more to finding possible girlfriend or wife options.
A few days ago, Gemini2 was asking that he as a "mid 30’s, tall(ish), handsome guy can’t get it for free in Kiev" "better stay in London then, coz here I can." I commented that free is a relative term. I am older, normal in height and in looks. I do not go about arrogantly flashing job, money or nationality as that is the surest way to end up either alone at night or simply end up paying for the pleasure.
I went to a company's product launch two days ago with lots of ex-pats and locals, model types and regular ladies. I struck up a few conversations. Then with one lady, not a model type but attractive, late 20s, we started to hit it off very well. We left the party, went to a nice restaurant, continued the talking, I paid for the meal and transport to my place, some more drinks and then all night fun.
Would I consider this a paid scene? No. Was it free? No, it did cost me some money, dinner, about $75, car fare. What I also think helped is that at least part of the time we were able to converse in Russian, that she seemed more at ease.
In clubs, in restaurants, on the street or wherever you meet the ladies here, being polite, and what they consider "gentlemanly" will go a long way. What differentiates the West from here is that there is still a definite separation of the sexes. Women have women's roles in their minds and men have men's roles. Feminists have made no inroads into the locally psychology and are not likely to do so for many centuries, if ever.
But I hope you all understand that no matter the woman here, be she wife or prostitute, the basic man's role here is that of provider. The man must be the support for the woman in all ways. How each woman here defines that is of course something individual. If you want your woman here to be a woman, then also understand that she wants you to be a real man, and make sure you understand how she defines that. Lots of room for miscommunication here. Believe me, I know since I had to learn more than a few hard lessons.
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What makes Kiev attractive over Russia and other countries is not just the chance to feel girlfriend experience,living everything naturally up to the limit leads to perfect performance both at daytime and at night rather than very limited and mechanical performance ( the overview of a great performance can differ a lot and you'll never understand that what you see as perfect can indeed be very regular till you get aware of a much better option!!?! )
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Mangus Man,
Sharing? So share. A stunner. Where is she from? Ukraine, Russia?
You give us the false impression that this was taken recently. The properties show it was actually taken 5/24/2002 at 4:12 PM.
Care to explain the 19 month delay? Tough to wish us all a happy 2004 holiday season during late spring 2002.
I would like to discuss more than language or flowers, which are very important parts of the equation here, but it does help if others actually do honestly share. That means sharing on a very wide variety of topics and issues, from how to find someone for an urgent hour to those involving the hazards of ladies who want long term relationships.
Do you want to explain what your post added to the subject matter except a possibly empty boast about your possible prowess with a lady whose photo is questionable?
If you are so adept and talented, then tell us how to be focused and how to urgently find ladies such as this, tell us the where, the when, the how, all this and more, along with the picture. Try and do as you say and then maybe I can say you have actually contributed.
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I’m not sure if I can add too much to the excellent advice given by Vegamars and Uke Boy, but having been able to get some great tips from the board about Kiev I thought I should try and contribute something too. I suppose my report is really aimed at the novice Kiev traveller. I should start off by saying I thoroughly disagree with Vegamars assertion that English people shouldn’t come to Kiev! You should! The women are just smack you in the mouth stunning and most you meet are friendly and really easy to talk to. Come – you’ll have a wonderful time.
I’ve just come back from 10 days in Kiev. I have to agree with Uke Boy about the weather – maybe Vegamars was staying in a different Kiev! The last day I was there (Tuesday) the temperature dropped a few degrees, but the sun made an appearance and the whole city was transformed. Anyone who is worried about going to Ukraine (or Russia) during winter really shouldn’t – yes the weather is cold, but you know it’ll be cold! Dress warm and you’ll have a blast. I can also vouch that winter weather in London feels far worse than the far colder temperatures in many places in Russia and Ukraine. If you haven’t been before, this will make more sense when you experienced your first sunny –20 day. You’ll be warmed up by all the women trotting around in their fur coats – I was always led to believe that fur was bad and looked better on the animal. After every trip to Eastern Europe I have to revise this – you show me a mink who looks as good in it’s skin as a 6ft Ukrainian blonde!
There’s been lots of interesting views on the best way to communicate. I speak passable beginners Russian, although this means that I can speak far better than I can understand. I’ll be led by the circumstances – sometimes I’ll only communicate in Russian, sometimes just in English, but usually I’ll try a mixture of everything. In my experience the key is the willingness to listen to and communicate with the person you’re talking to and have fun (also be prepared to make an ass of yourself in trying to communicate). Sometimes this means a mixture of a whole load of communication techniques – one of the best 24 hours of this trip was with a girl who spoke hardly any English. We communicated using Russian, her German, my French, a lot of drawings and a lot of charades. Every successfully understood sentence was celebrated! She was a lovely girl and we spent a great day or so together and, depending on your definition, all “free”.
With this said, if you don’t speak Russian…learn some! It isn’t that difficult to pick up a few basic phrases and to learn the alphabet. It will add immensely to your enjoyment and open you up a wider spectrum of people. It will also make even those girls who speak good English that much more responsive to you. I would also recommend something like the pocket Rough Guide Russian/English dictionary. Fits in the back pocket and can be a bit of lifesaver; for some reason the girls also seem to really like looking through it and find it hysterical.
My five basic tips would be:
Get a flat, don’t stay in a hotel. It’s been said many times before, but it’s worth reiterating. I found a really nice one bedroom flat right in the centre for $50 a night.
As Uke Boy says if you don’t speak Russian you need to get some sort of map. You can buy an excellent map with the street names in both Cyrillic and English from the Hotel Dnipro (and I’m sure other hotels) for around 20UAH. It’s got an index ordered by both alphabets so you can look up street names for any club, restaurant etc. I know Vegamars just favours diving in and exploring, but Kiev is not a small city and if you aren’t familiar with the Russian alphabet, a map will make life a lot easier.
Taxis – Yes, no-where should cost more than 20UAH to get to (which is already over-priced), but they’re taxi drivers and, as in any large city, their natural inclination will be to rip off the tourist (sorry if this offends anyone!). When I got back to London I was tired and my taxi driver thought I was from out of town and immediately took a longer route – it’s simply the nature of the beast to do this. In Kiev they will try for 25, 30, 40UAH for a trip. Personally I lay down a marker every few trips to make a point, but do you really want to spend your holiday arguing over $2? Always ask for the cost before you start the journey (just say something like “Skolka?” or “Sto ee mast?”) and stick to the price quoted. Incidentally journeys back from clubs when you’re with some gorgeous women always cost more. They know you just want to get home and won’t argue too much.
Don’t be shy – just being a tourist with cash will not really get you anywhere, even in places like River Palace. Smile and go and introduce yourself to anyone you like and see what, if anything, transpires. It’s amazing how many dates you can get from doing this on the street….and for god’s sake don’t treat all the girls as hookers! You may not get to sleep with every girl you meet when walking round, but if you aim to meet people, go out for a meal, some drinks, a club, good things will often happen (I think I had a success rate of something like 70% for street meetings to getting a phone number or a date). If you go up to someone, get talking and within 2 minutes say “how much for a shag?”, your success rate will be minimal. On the street or in a club, if the girls a pro, she’ll bring up the subject of money quick enough.
Gifts of some sort are always a good idea, however small and simple. My best idea was to bring loads of the new thin ice gum; this went down a storm. I had around 10 girls flocking round me at Freedom wanting to try it! Ultimately this led to one of the bouncers thinking I was selling drugs, but even this worked out well (having convinced him it was breath freshener and that he shouldn’t beat the crap out of me I was his new found best friend for the rest of the night in return for a pack).
Clubs – general tip – no club seems to start getting even faintly busy until midnight/1am.
River Palace – it is what it is! Every girl there is available. Opening bids start as high as $300 – raise a knowing eyebrow and don’t even respond. $200 is the genuinely top level, $150 their preference, $100 what you’ll settle on. There are a wide range of girls, with some absolute stunners. It’s a fun place and, as an introduction to the joys of Ukrainian women, a good place to start. Most of the action is in the disco (where just watching the girls dance is a treat – there are quite a few who clearly love themselves!), but you shouldn’t dismiss the bar downstairs. Quieter and far less crowded and a lot of girls from the disco will come down for a bit, if only to escape someone who’s annoying them. I only met one girl I really liked here, but talking to some other guys everyone else seemed to have a good time and find lots of great girls. The one tip from everyone seemed to be to make sure you negotiate quite clearly what you are paying for – how long she’ll stay, what she will and won’t do etc. They will usually say it’s ‘till morning, but if you leave the club at 4am “morning” can mean 5am or it can mean “when we wake up the next day”. Unsurprisingly, a lot of the girls here are more likely to assume that it means nearer to 5am!
RP is the a good place, but is an easy out . All the best action I found was walking around and at other clubs. I wouldn’t describe myself as a looker (actually, no-one would describe me as such, I’m an ugly bugger!), but through chatting to girls on the street and in other bars I had 3 threesomes and 6 solo encounters in 10 days, and with some gorgeous and great women. If you can, I would avoid the more obvious paid scene and just focus on meeting the locals anywhere but RP. The other clubs I tried were:
Freedom – not simply a good Ukrainian nightclub, but just a great nightclub for any city. Expensive for Kiev, this place is great if you like to dance. A lot of girls will want to go to this place and if you meet someone and ask them where they might want to go for a night, a lot will suggest Freedom. The girls here, and I’m not sure there were any pros, are simply breathtaking – I felt like one of those cartoon characters with eyes bulging out and my tongue rolled out across the floor. Two of the best evenings of pure hedonistic fun of my life.
Moda Bar – I wasn’t taken by this place, but a lot of the girls and tourists I met seemed really keen. Some of the more experienced tourists I met said it was a like a subtle version of River Palace and was a great place to meet different girls. It’s a good looking bar, I just found the atmosphere a bit cold.
Cocktail 111 – I really liked this place as a bar (quite intimate, with a circular rotating bar in the middle). Friendly, quite a few girls to chat to and not that popular with tourists, which is no bad thing!
For other bars and clubs, ask the girls you meet where they would recommend going for a good night (Freedom and Moda are the most popular answers) - pretty obvious but really successful for getting a date.
Summary – I loved Kiev (to stress again - I don’t care what Vegamars says – English people should go!) and can’t wait to go back in the summer. I’ve never been too taken with Moscow, although I love St Petersburg, but I found the whole city an interesting place, far friendlier than Russian cities, the women stunning and the opportunities nearly endless.