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[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]My comment was that the [i]bitter and twisted amongst you[/i] can wallow in your collective (largely self-inflicted) misery, while the rest of us go to another thread and engage in meaningful conversation.
I'm sure I'm not the only person who's noticed SOME of the men on this thread have huge chips on their shoulders. If they treat women in real life the same way they do here, then it's little wonder they aren't getting laid and yes...I would consider their loneliness to be largely self-inflicted.
As for what your co-worker went through, I think you'd be battling to find someone on this site who HASN'T been through that shit. Myself included. I started wh*ring after leaving a violent drunk husband and almost ending up homeless while struggling to pay off HIS debts that had somehow attached themselves to me. And that's just one in a long line of failed relationships. Do I hate all men because of it? No. I'm cautious and slow to trust these days, but I try to see every new man with a fresh eye and an open mind.
Wallowing in self pity and tarring all men/women with the same brush isn't helpful. It just pushes people further away and perpetuates the cycle of disappointment and loss. That's what I meant by self-inflicted misery.[/QUOTE]
Your quite correct RN as usual...
I am alone, but not lonely there's a difference...
Much of it self-inflicted because if I settled, I would be miserable!
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I don't understand why a British hooker would be interested in a thread about American women. Similarly I like RN but she is often way off base because she isn't American and has never even been there.
British men are a bunch of snobbish poofs but I wouldn't waste time participating in a thread discussing same.
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[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]Can I ask where that came from? Your family, your school, the media...?
I can't tell you how horrified I was to read that comment. That's awful.[/QUOTE]
It was all around me like I am sure it was for many other americans.
By the way YES that is awful.
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[QUOTE=D Etat]
He lands the job where I met him and works his way back and is making decent money then she finds out about it through the kids asking where he is. She takes him back to court and gets more money because of the salary of our position.[/QUOTE]
These kinds of stories about divorce play an important part of the discussion on this thread, but I've had a couple of close friends go through divorces with American women and the experiences were not as bad as all that. It seems like if children are involved it's significantly more painful.
One of my buddies thinks his ex-wife is "insane", but I've never heard him complain about alimony or the kids. He is a lawyer, and not stupid, so maybe he was able to work the system more effectively than an average guy.
Still, the thing that shocks me most about the divorces my friends have gone through is how mundane and uninteresting they seem to be. Just part of the fabric of everyday life, nothing like the movies. When I was a kid, a divorce was something interesting and dramatic, but today, as an adult, it's so much less so.
Anyway. RN. What makes you think a constructive discussion of male and female issues is going to take place within a forum dedicated so significantly to prostitution? It doesn't seem to me that the men who post here are interested in "serious" relationships, while the women who post are, for the most part, mercenaries in the game of love.
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[QUOTE=Jelly Donut]What makes you think a constructive discussion of male and female issues is going to take place within a forum dedicated so significantly to prostitution? It doesn't seem to me that the men who post here are interested in "serious" relationships, while the women who post are, for the most part, mercenaries in the game of love.[/QUOTE]I for one am not at all interested in "improving my game" or how to change myself so that I can pick up women better. I as well as most other forum members know what the overall situation with western women is and what it takes to "get laid". Doesnt mean we necessarily want to do it. There are those that prefer to pay money for sex instead.
I would definitely welcome a female members honest advice on how to save a few bucks on a session, get overall better service from a provider and best way to check for STDs on them. I am sure that Natasha or other female members will get a lot more respect and be welcomed if they can assist us in matters of business P4P not personal relationships.
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DH: Much of the discussion in this thread focuses on the flaws of 'western women' and the feminist impact on 'western society'. Aussie, Brit and European men also contribute. I generally avoid butting in when the discussion is more AW-specific.
JD: Because we (hookers and mongers) see the world differently. Many of us have alternative views on 'traditional' relationships and/or what constitutes 'normal' sexual behaviour. The Morality thread spends over half its time discussing personal relationships, like having working girlfriends, or being found in a massage parlour by your wife, or dealing with the guilt of living a P4P 'double life'. (Imagine the response some of those questions would get in a 'real life' relationships forum!) I think there's more than enough interest in the topic to sustain its own thread.
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[QUOTE=Rubber Nursey]DH: Much of the discussion in this thread focuses on the flaws of 'western women' and the feminist impact on 'western society'. Aussie, Brit and European men also contribute. I generally avoid butting in when the discussion is more AW-specific.
JD: Because we (hookers and mongers) see the world differently. Many of us have alternative views on 'traditional' relationships and/or what constitutes 'normal' sexual behaviour. The Morality thread spends over half its time discussing personal relationships, like having working girlfriends, or being found in a massage parlour by your wife, or dealing with the guilt of living a P4P 'double life'. (Imagine the response some of those questions would get in a 'real life' relationships forum!) I think there's more than enough interest in the topic to sustain its own thread.[/QUOTE]
Again I agreed, I am not a monger (at least I don't believe so)
Its because save for most of Europe, sex is a taboo subject and paying for it carries a large burden with it as well. When you try to tell dummies that they are paying for it too, they scoff and justify that cost as a part of dating and if you end up not having sex that's just goes with the territory...
Overall we have some interesting people on here.
Some posters want to visit remote countries just for P4P, while bypassing great locations for the hobby such as Germany, Thailand or Brasil.
Why would you wanna go to a country or a location where P4P is largely non-existent and you'll have an easier time getting it from "freebies"??
I would say that a good 80% of the forum does not look like Jabba The Hut, so you really shouldn't have any problems pulling "normal" women. No reason to go to some remote town in Moldova for example, were as a "stranger" you'll generally be rejected and with the local P4P trade overcharged.
But I digress -
Providers only have a different mindset because they get to see a side of men that many other women don't. Plus they can't be high and mighty about a career choice that others take opinion with and have arguments about it on "Dr Phil".
But I dunno, why won't escorts and porn stars date me??? Am I not looking in the right place? I live in Porn Valley (San Fernando Valley) I know there "around" here, instead of dating some dirt bag, why not me???? lol
Oh well..
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[QUOTE=Artisttyp]It was all around me like I am sure it was for many other americans. By the way YES that is awful.[/QUOTE]
Have to admit, I was slightly relieved to hear you say that. Your original comment gave me this mental image of your mother beating you with a stick, screaming 'all men are dogs'!
But the reality doesn't make it any less awful. The messages I grew up with were a happy blend of old and new, but that's all changed now, thanks largely to those same ideas and attitudes imported from the United States. This has really screwed with us as a nation, because gender roles are very closely tied in to who we are as Australians. We are not a 'Christian country' in the true sense. As a convict settlement in a harsh and isolated environment, our values and culture were moulded by adversity, not doctrine.
Women had an important role to play in society. We weren't pretty playthings who embroidered hankies while our menfolk worked and we still aren't. We have always been emancipated. Many of the messages coming from America just don't fit with Australian values and culture, which has resulted in mass confusion. Women's rights actually appear to be going backwards in this country. Women who want to stay home and raise children are being forced into the workforce. Our beautiful rough diamond Aussie blokes are being encouraged to behave and dress like 'sensitive new age guys'. American concepts like alimony and censorship and political correctness are sneaking into our lives, even though none of us seem to agree with them.
Our once symbiotic male/female relationships - traditional and equal at the same time - have been decimated. Nobody knows what their role is any more. While I wouldn't say that Australian men are being raised to think they're dogs just yet, they ARE being raised to think the Australian idea of masculinity is wrong - based on the American (female) idea of how a woman should be treated and how a man should behave. Australian culture is often described as sexist by Americans, but they just don't understand how it works. Now our men are being made to look like drunken misogynist fools in our media. Time-honoured 'sexist' Aussie traditions like the skimpy (lingerie-clad barmaids) are being regulated into non-existence.
Sorry. I'll shut up now. :) But this is a subject I feel really passionate (and angry) about, which is why I often pop my head into this thread when the topic is being debated. This insane battle of the sexes needs to stop before our entire way of life comes crashing down around our ears.
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[QUOTE=Natasha]I...Most of my clients are regs! If they checked my website and feedback on AW they would see![/QUOTE]Hi Natasha,
Like you I'm a newcomer to ISG. Posters on this site seem to use a lot of acronyms, and AW generally seems to mean "American women". I suspect you meant "AdultWork" - correct?
If so, I'm off to that site to look you up! I'm a British punter, and use Adultwork almost exclusively when I'm looking for fun - I've posted a dozen or so Field Reports there. I like to think that I respect the wonderful women I've met via that site, and I'm aghast at some of the misogynistic opinions I'm reading here.
[QUOTE=Dickhead]British men are a bunch of snobbish poofs[/QUOTE]I'd like to think that your tongue was in your cheek when you wrote that, but I fear that it wasn't. But as someone else said, maybe it's best not to take anything written here too seriously ;)
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First my cell phone, now my sex site! Is this a joke? Dude, I hope your first post is your last.
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American Exporting
Hmm.... RN makes a good point about the strange and unique phenomenon of American "exportation" of its culture around the world - for better or for worse.
American television, music and products seem to inevitably infiltrate other countries and cultures. I can't tell you how annoying it is to walk into a bar in Eastern Europe and they're blaring Elvis, the Beach Boys, etc. I mean, here I am in Vienna, the home of Strauss and the Waltz and I'm listening to California surf music. Oh yeah, then at your hotel you turn on the TV and they have Cheers on with Sam Malone dubbed in German???
OK, I can live with this but we also export vile stuff like alimony, feminism, political correctness and all kinds of other cultural misery and buzz words. This invariably leads to conflcit and confrontation when these issues filter over to other countries and cultures. Hey, maybe in the next several decades the rest of the world will be as miserable as we American men!
Paddy
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Here, check out this American kunt:
"I am 44 and have attracted cheap men all of my life. Looking back, I realize that my boyfriends were cheap. My husband is cheap (we live comfortably), my lovers have all been cheap with me, but what's even more painful is that they have told me about the gifts they bought for their wives and former mistresses.
My current lover and I have been together for more than two years. He is a successful physician and enjoys a nice lifestyle. I have enough "things," but it is the attention and thought that counts, and I think that a long-term relationship warrants gift-giving "just because" — to make your lover happy.
He once said that he is afraid that my husband would see a present and question it, and I assured him that I would make sure my husband didn't see it. He also said I should not give him anything because his wife might see it. I need to know what I am doing wrong."
What are you doing wrong? Breathing, for one thing!
Hey Paddy, are you still marooned in SP? What's up with all of that?
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[QUOTE=Paddy] inevitably infiltrate [/QUOTE]
It's the same deal here in the United States with Austrian culture - it's seems like every Sunday morning you can't walk into a cafe without hearing Mozart. And everybody is trying to "psychoanalyze" this or that. And there's an Austrian Governor of the U.S. state of California - home of so much of the culture we use for "infiltration". Freakin Austrians, almost as bad as the Australians. Why can't they just leave us alone?
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Hard to view Mozart as Austrian since there was no Austria back then. Now Schwarznegger should be killed.
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RN, I've been saying on this thread for a LONG time that I think many posters' anger is WAY misplaced. They bring the gender thing into it just like in America the race thing finds its way into everything, no matter how grossly inappropriate.
People should be concerned about the machine that's eating societies up from the inside out, and our bleak outlook for the future in general instead of hating on each other for stupid bullshit.
For the record, I'm divorced, we settled out of court, I pay on time like a responsible motherfucker and my ex doesn't bother me. I'm there a lot for the kids, as much as I can be, and when I can't watch the kids and she needs somebody she finds somebody else.