Re-read my post. A guy doesn't even have to get a gal pregnant to get stuck with a child support obligation. True, that's not the norm, but, it IS indicative of where we are in this country.
Spike, out...
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Re-read my post. A guy doesn't even have to get a gal pregnant to get stuck with a child support obligation. True, that's not the norm, but, it IS indicative of where we are in this country.
Spike, out...
I don't think that is necessarily so. Marriage can work when there is a mutual understanding of the differences between and value of the contribution of each gender to the relationship. That is one of the reason's I am infatuated with Asian women. They are much closer to the "real world" as are their male counterparts. I have a pet theory; Asian women tend to be very focused on food (why aren't they fat??) because they are much closer to being hungry than American women are. Is that a good thing? No, I wouldn't say so, but, in OUR country, female independence has become almost malignant. In the good ole' U.S. of A., the male role has become superfluous. MEN are the anachronism, NOT marriage.
Give me someone who respects me and what I do every time. I have no interest in living with some gal who is doing me a favor by allowing me to be in her presence. I will respect, honor and love a woman who feels the same towards me, but I won't be caught dead (again) with any ***** on a superiority kick. BESIDES WHICH.... Asian women are physically so much more attractive to me.
Spike, out...
I'm not saying marriage can never work but what the fuck is the point of it, as opposed to just living together in an open-ended arrangement that doesn't require the legal system to get involved when one of the parties wants to move in a different direction?
If parties can split easily and equitably, then such arrangements can work well. But the truth is that a fair majority of breakups aren't necessarily either without children being involved or amicable, hence the courts and lawyers. From what I've read, four out of five marriages that end do so unilaterally, with one spouse deciding they want out and the other disagreeing. So there's going to be disputes over who owes who, assets, custody, etc. Since studies show that those who live together before marriage actually have a higher divorce rate, (haven't been able to track down a good stat on percentage of cohabitations that last or causes for failure) I'm not so sure the "go your separate ways" formula fits all either -- there's a big difference in the kind of breakup that happens when someone's been together for a year or two or for a couple of decades in terms of how easily people move on.
How do you stop a woman from having sex??????? YOU MARRIED HER.....
Yes in good old US of A women are not on par like women/Asian from the rest of the world. And one is more appreciated for himself, then how much he has in his pocket from overseas women.
Nevertheless, my best relationships here in the USA were with women I dated. When we were finish I go to my home and she goes to hers.Unless you are living in expensive New York or California areas, and you considering living together.
I remember seeing one of the morning talk shows and it featured a guy who got married to a chick who fucked around on him, had the kid and she didn't tell him it wasn't his until the kid was SEVEN YEARS OLD!! The husband then went to the courts with IRREFUTABLE PROOF (DNA test) that the child wasn't HIS, but the nut-less judge decreed that he must STILL take care of the kid until he's 18 AND (it gets BETTER) the BIOLOGICAL FATHER didn't have to shell out a god damned nickel toward child support, because the child was seen as being under the care of the STEPFATHER. The judge didn't even so much as fucking SCOLD the scheming ho of a mother! She spun the whole thing around by saying that he has to take care of the kid (financially) even though she got dicked by someone else! This case occured in Pennsylvania and what's so scary is that it's NOT an isolated incident!
As for marriage, the very institution HEAVILY favors women. Hypothetical situation: I get married to some broad who puts her best foot forward BEFORE the wedding and does a "Sybill' after the wedding. Where I would have been getting regular sex and a caring attitude BEFORE, I would be NOW getting it IF she felt like it when she's not in a pissy mood and IF she can get something MATERIAL out of it. ALSO, said broad would be entitled to HALF MY SHIT just by being a fucking BARNACLE and hanging on, but contributing nothing of worth to the relationship. After THAT happens, through the legal system, I effectively subsidize her lifestyle of nights on the town, new clothes on a VERY FREQUENT BASIS and fucking someone ELSE while I gotta grin and bear it. Two female coworkers recently asked me why I wouldn't get married. I IMMEDIATELY bit my tongue after I found myself about to blurt out a sanitized version of what I just told my bretheren here...
Sinanju-I didn't want to finish carrying the ball into the end zone there with "the search for bad boy schlong continues". It was good of you to do it for me. This has inadvertently tied back into our discussion about biological fatherhood of children. There is a whole lot of unsanctioned screwing going on after the girl has "landed the schlub" to foot the bills. This is essentially the heart of a primary issue-American Women absolutely refuse to "play fair" (in even making an exchange of their slightly used up asses for continued financial security), so they, find a way to "have their cake and eat it too", by procuring the unwitting sponsorship for their screwing around from said schlub.
Dickhead-I'm inclined to agree with you to some degree that marriage is an anachronism. I believe however that it does have some utility in in the desire to reproduce (it has been my experience that the single mommy model doesn't work very well, and some kind of permanent pairing is optimal). However, although I will someday probably want a child or two, I will never subject myself the life wrecking potential that is the American Marriage.
Which leads onto another topic:
Could one of you more learned and world travelled gentlemen let me know what marriage laws are like in some of our "hot spots" (Europe, South America, Asia etc)
your tongue. Tell them what the f*ck is going on! These women need to know this.
When all is said and done, I still believe marriage is viable for the right couple. The commitment can make for a much deeper relationship than that realized through a casual "dating" type of deal. Call me a sucker or a hopeless romantic; I don't think there is anything inherent in the female of the species that makes her impossible to live with after marriage.
I want to make a distinction here, though. I think marriage took a BIG hit when it morphed from a relgious institution to one that is licensed by the State. State licensing brings State control; hence the mindless f*cking screwing over that men are subjected to now through divorce, custody rules, etc.
My last marriage ended when my beloved B*TCH decided it was time to branch out and experience "variety" in life. Unfortunately for me, that variety included my best friend (among MANY others). Unfortunately for her, I ended up with custody, which happens for a man about 75% of the time when he contests it. The County wasn't up to the task, though, so I continued to have my pay checks attached, liens placed against my personal and real property... even my drivers license was revoked!!! This is while I have FULL custody!!!! It took 3 YEARS to get them off my back. Now, the B*TCH owes ME money, which I won't take. I love holding it over her, though. Stupid cow has gone on to another sucker, but she still owes me money. Someday I'll pull the string on her and she'll have to come up with "back pay", hopefully with interest!
But, I digress... the problem seems to me to be State control and interference, NOT the institution itself. Commitment in any relationship should be a good thing, but we are so far over a barrel now that women feel NO obligation to play fair in any way.
Spike, out...
I suggest that everyone here read a little book called The Moral Animal (look it up on Amazon. The Economist magazine called it the most important book of insight into humanity since The Origin of Species). It gives a very insightful analysis of how human nature has developed in response to the evolutionary demands of our ancestors. Basically it’s one of the first books in the new science of evolutionary psychology. I’m not saying evolutionary psychology explains everything or makes certain actions right (people are still very complex) but it’s starting to explain a lot of things we know about people. Guys like pretty, young girls because those are the girls who are most likely to have a lot of healthy babies with you. Girls like guys for a lot more reasons because guys had more ways of being successful – being a player, having money, power or fame. So each sex has a different strategy to be successful reproductively and sometimes these strategies come into conflict.
Divorce isn’t an anachronism. The whole idea of marriage to a single other person with monogamy is actually a relatively recent invention. But divorce makes a lot of sense in an evolutionary reproductive view. Anthropologist Helen Fisher has gathered divorce data from 62 societies around the world and founds that "human beings in a variety of societies tend to divorce between the second and fourth years of marriage, with a divorce peak during the fourth year". She also finds that the divorce statistics for the US in 1986 fit the same pattern, with most divorces taking place between the second and third year of marriage.
Fisher's evolutionary explanation attributes the universality of the divorce statistics to the "remarkable correlation between the length of human infancy in traditional societies, about four years, and the length of many marriages, about four years.” She concluded that, “The modern divorce peak--about four years--conforms to the traditional period between human successive births--four years....Like pair-bonding in foxes, robins, and many other species that mate only through a breeding season, human pair bonds originally evolved to last only long enough to raise a single dependent child through infancy, the first four years, unless a second child was conceived.” Incidentally, over 95% of marriages that don’t produce children in the first 3 years ended in divorce.
As for girls screwing every pretty boy punk they can find while they’re young, it’s just part of a strategy to maximize the chances of spreading their genes. Let’s face it, pretty/bad boy players get a lot the babes. They’re the most likely to have a lot of kids. Those genes are then most likely to get spread. The downside to having the pretty/bad boy as a father is that they usually make lousy fathers to the kids--that’s where marrying us nice guys comes in. The optimal strategy for the woman to spread her genes would be to have kids with the pretty/bad boys (who have the potential to screw a lot of people) but have a stable/nice guy who can provide a lot of resources help raise the brats. That 10% figure for kids not belonging of the father is correct but it’s much higher in many other areas. In the more urban areas of cities, that figure is actually 25%! Think how many girls get knocked-up by a player and then bed some schmoe the next week who then ends up raising that little bastard. Studies also show that the type of guy a girl finds attractive varies with her cycle. When she’s most fertile, she wants the bad boy player but just two weeks later it’s Mr. Nice who’s her favorite.
Guys shouldn't kid themselves about how many woman cheat. They are better at getting away with it because most of guys are working so damn hard. The figures I’ve seen says 55% of guys cheat on their wives while 25% of wives cheat on their husbands. (Heck, there’s this woman in the office who is so f’ing brazen about it. She’s Chinese and 1/4 white and has been married some white dude 8 years ago-don't assume Chinese women stay traditional in the US. I see her with her Chinese boyfriend of 9 years way more often than with her husband. She was so relieved when the baby looked like her husband.) Of course this info wasn’t known when almost all states enacted laws that say any kid born during the marriage belonged to the father. That’s true in most cases, but we didn’t have DNA comparison technology until very recently. Some of those laws might get changed if enough men with balls do something about it.
I also have a pet theory as to why American woman are such spoiled princesses. It's not just because we treat them so well in dating but it's because of how we raise them. Do any of you have daughters? I don't but I practically raised my sister. We want the best for our kids and that includes our daughters. We teach them to expect and demand the best both in terms of personal treatment and the rights they expect from society at large. (Title IX is only part of the proof.) Sometimes parents go overboard in this regard and the girl turns into a brat (but they probably would've been a b*tch anyway). I'm not saying that girls should have equal rights or be free to do what they want, I'm just saying that a percentage of spoiled women is the price we pay for that.
I don't mean to be insulting but I'll come out and say it. Some of the guys here are complaining about shoddy treatment from women do so because they're suckers, jerks or losers. Hell, I'm probably the biggest loser here. I never had a real girlfriend. I've got more issues than Newsweek because of the horrific physical and emotional abuse I recieved from when I was a kid till I was a teen. I've suffered suicidal bouts of double depression cause of all that stuff. Despite all that I still manage to put myselft through grad school but all that working and studying meant I'm still a virgin at 27. Which is why I've had to resort to "professional help" although I haven't gotten FS since it would probably just depress me further knowing that I had to pay for FS my first time). All the women in my life have only wanted to be friends but I don't blame them for anything--many have been supportive as friends. So on to my point: I've seen way more women abused and treated much, much worse than what guys here complain about coming from women. Much of it was eye-witness stuff because it was happening to my mom. (Hell, some of my depression stems from the fact that I'm the son of such an asshole.) Do divorce laws favor women too much? Yes but 75% of guys don't even pay any of the child-support they're suppose to. I'm sure that guys here have been unjustly screwed by women. I'm just trying to give some perspective as to why some good women are wary of men.
The only women I can't stand are the god-damn wh*res who constantly complain about not being able to find a nice guy. There are plenty around. I'm a nice, hard-working, smart, funny guy you wh*res keep saying you want to find before you go f*ck those drunk frat boys. For some reason women love to talk to me (as a friend of course) so I'm the one who always has to hear those complaints. Well not anymore you wh*res. You women are the gatekeepers of that vagina, you're the ones who should know what sort of pricks you're letting in. My reponse to every complaint in that regard will be, "You deserved it. You were stupid and you deserved to be played. What the hell else were expecting? Get away from me you wh*re. Don't expect me to be your fallback position. Find some other idiot to be your baby's daddy." I will no longer serve as an emotional ***** (check out [url]http://www.laddertheory.com/ratingsystem.htm[/url] for a definition of the term and to learn more about what women are really like) for my women acquiantances.
Re: All the recent posts.
This subject of marriage seems to be bringing out some very strong emotions in some of our WSG members. No exception here, but as I was reading some of these posts I decided to "step back" and think about what I was feeling.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not opposed to the idea of getting married. However, isn't it obvious that marriage isn't for everyone? Why even bother to get married anyways? Does one need to be married to get laid? For that matter, do you even need a girlfriend? For companionship? Maybe, but I get the same kind of commitment from a long-term girlfriend without the shitty (and legally-binding) hassles that come with being married.
Why are women somehow "better" when they're just your girlfriend? Maybe it's because they don't have that certainty that they've GOT you. Maybe it's because they still need you somehow.
On the flip side, it occurs to me that the best thing to do might be to let some other guy do the marrying. Then you could be the one to come along and fuck her while the other guy pays the bills. Not exactly my style, but hey..... this would probably work pretty good for some guys.
I've always held off on getting married myself precisely because of the things I've seem my best friends going through. The exact same things that have been discussed in all of the recent posts.
If I found the right girl I'd defintely go for it. However Sinanju brings up a pretty good point. Often, you never know for sure about someone until it's too late. If that ever happened to me, I think I'd just go back to doing what I do now and travel the world sampling the variety until I'm too old to get it up anymore. If it wasn't for wanting to have some kids someday, there'd be no reason why any right-thinking man would ever want to get married.
Rock
PS. Donald Trump, he may know business, but what a dumb fucking schmuck when it comes to women. I see he's looking to get married AGAIN.
PPS: And don't start yakking on about how he's got a pre-nup. She's still gonna take him for a bundle.
Same thing here in Texas, I read an article in Texas monthly about a bunch of guys that are still under court orders to pay child support for children they didn't Fater. The rational being "undue hardship on the single mother (fucker)" because in most of the cases the biological Father (sperm doner) couldn't be found. I wonder how long this situation would last if it were possible for the gender issue to be turned. Can you see a judge saying "Yes Ma'am the court knows you didn't bear this child however you must support it regardless." When pigs fucking fly!
Personally if I had found out that my son was not my biological child after a number of years I would have continued to pay regardless of the legal issues. Mine is an unusuall case, his mom was a a ***** before I married her (please don't ask me why I did, I was much younger and stupider) and a bigger ***** during the marriage but after the fact not so much. Probably because I didn't hesitate to tell her to shut up during a rant, hang up on her as needed and told her when she was being a ***** after we divorced.
Perhaps a lesson there.
We get along well, she never played access games and we never used my son as a weapon against the other. (If I would have gotten periodic blow jobs she probably would have been the perfect ex wife) So him neing my son is much more a relationship issue than a biological one.
The guys I feel for are those poor fucks that just thought they were getting some pussy and ended up paying WAY more than 150 pesos.
My 02
Who Cares #2,
A lot of the points you made that required stepping back for perspective -- I'll give you that. Don't get me wrong: I may spray venom regarding these b*tches who have no problem with displaying a confusing duplicity, but it's only 'cos I played by the rules for so long layed out by the parental units; treat women with respect, courtesy, blah blah blah... it only got me the role as "friend". Now, whenever I hear an attractive woman whine about her b/f, I just instantly cut her off by saying: "I'm not your girlfriend. I'm only interested in getting into your pants". That will stop that shit COLD. If the REMOTE possibility exists that said whining princess admires such cojones and acquiesces, so be it, but such a reply is intended to stop her from wasting my time.
As for your "nice guy" issue, I feel your pain. Whenever I'm in a social setting and I hear women whine about this bullshit of wanting a nice guy, I just wanna call them on it by asking if they've ever fallen for a guy they INSTINCTIVELY knew was WRONG for them. In the same breath, I want to ask them how many times they've turned down a guy that is level-headed, has a good job and is steady as a rock. More than likely, they don't have enough fingers and toes to count them.
Rock Dog,
Sometimes, I'm such a clueless bonehead that I experience a "Eureka" moment when I come out of it. Your idea of flipping it around and letting SOMEONE ELSE do the marrying (and harvesting the crop) while I plant the seed is utter simple brilliance.
The male bears 100% of the responsibility for contraception, as does the female. Yes, I know that adds up to 200% but if you are going to fuck someone you don't know very well, why would you believe her if she says she is on the pill, not at the fertile time of her cycle, surgically sterile, or whatever? I [b]am[/b] surgically sterile but constantly surprised at the number of women who are willing to believe me when I tell them this. Down here in BA, after about the fifth time you are with a woman she will usually suggest doing it without a condom and will tell you that you are the only one she is doing with that way. Yeah, right. Then in the US a lot of women, especially older ones, are insulted if you want to use a rubber, like you are implying they have some disease (which of course you are).
The bottom line is that if you fuck them and do so with no contraception, then you should pay to support the little bastard for 18 years. However laws saying that you are responsible for whatever kids are born during your marriage regardless of whether they are yours, are just another obvious argument against marriage.
New Bound asked =
[i][quote]If an American guy gets an American women pregnant, and they are not married-- can the guy be held liable for child support or other payments?[/quote][/i]
Joe already told you the Basic Answer = [b]YES!![/b] , but that's not even the whole story
If you are ever legally declared the father of some brat , the Federal and State Governments here will track you down like a common criminal for 18 yrs if you fall behind on your court·ordered payments
Every time you fill out a W-4 form for a job ; win a State Lottery Jack·pot ; recieve a Worker's Comp settlement ; win a Judgement in a state or federal lawsuit ; or any other way that brings you , money , and Big Brother together = your Social Security number will be run ; and any arrears you owe will be deducted automatically and forwarded to the kid's mom so she can buy drugs and booze
Usually you hear stories from the perspective of the guy getting screwed , like Joe's friend
But it works the other way , too =
One chick I know was divorced from a guy who always worked 'under the table' on the rare occasions he was sober enough towork at all . He never paid a dime of child support for his kids in over ten years ; plus he had moved to another state far away which made hounding him in Family Court nearly impossible
One day he got seriously hurt on the job and was laid up for over a year waiting for his Worker's Comp settlement [ his 'un·documented' status slowed the process down , but didn't matter in the end ]
With medical bills and lost wages , he was awarded over *** $$ 60,000 *** , but when he got the Check , it was for less than Ten Grand !! 'They' had dutifully deducted the Child Support he owed and mailed it to Momma , who promptly bought a new car and took a vacation to Hawaii ; while the guy ended up getting evicted and living in a home·less shelter !!
All this reminds me of a Joke =
Have you heard about the new Morning After Pill for Men ??
It changes your Blood Type !!
Your posts are excellent and the statistics you quote are eye-opening, but I come to a slightly different conclusion. I think the biological imperative for BOTH genders dictates the necessity of a strong partnership in child rearing way past the 4th year of life for the child.
I don't think a mother/child unit reaches optimum viability until the child attains the age of 10 years old, maybe more. This would be particularly true in a "primitive" society. Any earlier and the child would be too much of a burden on the survivability of the un-aided mother, thereby limiting her contribution to the gene pool. Marriage is simply a way of formalizing the bond between father and mother for the purpose of enhancing survival of offspring.
Marriage, as an institution, certainly favors the mother. It attempts to restrict and control the biological imperative of the father. That is why women (in the past) resorted to cooking, cleaning and readily/regularly available sex to keep their partners around after child birth. In historical societies where polygamy was the accepted norm, the oldest wife was traditionally the senior member of the household. It was common for a man to take a younger wife for purposes of sex (reproduction) while retaining the older woman as advisor and manager of the household.
From the male perspective, the biological imperative is to f*ck women and kill other men. Killing other men is easier when you have someone who will prepare a meal and tend to a nice warm place to eat it.
Raising children is easier for the woman if she has someone around who will kill other men. The limited reproductive capacity of a woman is best served when she can conserve what offspring she has until they reach a level of maturity sufficient to protect themselves. In the "old days" it was common for warriors to kill the offspring of their vanquished foes. From the male perspective, this limited competition in the gene pool, but it is NOT in the best interests of the mother because it was a waste of her limited "reproductive potential".
The problem in our modern society is that we no longer need men in the way we used to need them. WE have become unnecessary, at least in our modern society. Sure, there are still wars, and we still need to kill other men, but wars are now based on vague geo-political principles as opposed to the old "man to man" direct conflicts. Even worse, we are now allowing our women to fight for us!! Women thusly need us less and less (and so they are taught), are becoming more and more independent, and are therefore no longer restrained by any social or cultural boundaries. Men are still trying to do the same old thing with a shrinking pool of women who will appreciate it; women can now do anything with no negative consequence. Maybe that is one reason so many of us seem to favor women from less "developed" countries; those women are much closer socially and culturally to the time when a man was a valued commodity.
This is a theoretical "work in progress". Sorry for rambling.
Spike, out...
The Old Days, huh? Hm... Gee, I kinda like the idea of delivering a deathblow to my opponent's ribcage, watching the life ebb from his body and then taking his woman from the stunned village as my own for all to see!
Seriously though, the women who feel that they don't need men all eventually experience a moment of weakness. AND who is the FIRST one to start whining about not having any help raising the little rugrat when they fail to live up to their Superwoman ideal? WOMEN!
I've gotta admit, PZ, that reading your example of the woman who ended up raising two kids on her own for ten years while her ex basically drank and ignored any responsibility for the kids he produced didn't give me much sympathy for the guy and frankly made me feel she eminently deserved a new car and Hawaii vacation. The small percentage of guys who don't deal with it simply mess over the kids they produce by not taking proper care of them, which by extension ends up screwing me, as I'm part of society that foots the bill for someone else's messed up or deprived kids. The issue in child support is not the guy or the woman, it's the kids, and if you're not gonna pay for who you produce then either wear a condom, get snipped, or keep it zipped up.
I absolutely agree that men very often get screwed in the support and custody situation, (especially given one report I read says that 50% of divorced mothers see no reason for kids' continued contact with their fathers and 40% have interfered with visitation) but the truth also is that most guys step up to the plate -- 75% of fathers pay their child support (though about 24% of those aren't managing the full amount) and in the cases where there is some sort of joint custody the father is up-to-date on payments over 90% of the time, and it's close to 80% if the father has at least some timeshare. Low compliance (around 44.5%) happens when the father has no access at all to the kids. And of the women who don't get child support, 22% said it was because they didn't want it, and 14.5% said they didn't pursue it because the father wasn't able to pay. (Source of stats: Federal report "Child Support and Alimony," U.S. Department of Commerce and the Bureau of the Census.) Even in 60% of the cases where the father is behind in payments when the family is on public assistance, he's working to catch up.
And for what it's worth, non-custodial mothers totally default on support to the rare custodial fathers 46.9% of the time, compared to men's 26.9% default rate.
Intriguing stuff, Spike. Thanks.
JZ makes a simple, yet brilliant point in his recent post. Just take one or two precautionary steps and don't get the woman pregnant in the first place! What was it that someone once said? An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
It's bad enough when they try to get their hooks into you just for living together for too long.
There was a post by Darius32 (I think that's his handle) where he mentioned having a woman in the Dominican Republic. He goes back and forth to visit. That's probably a good idea when you consider the potential cost of an unintended pregnancy. Lawyers bills, child support hassles and all that other crap for 18 years. I haven't worked out the numbers, but wouldn't it be cheaper to do it the way Darius is doing?
How much is the average support bill anyways? I was also wondering how they calculate it. it wouldn't surprise me if guys that earn more might get stuck with a higher payment.
Rock
Spike, thanks for the compliment. I think you’re looking at the viability issue a little wrong. Kids are surprisingly intelligent and adaptable. Today, in the Smoky Mountain trash dump in the Philippines, there are kids younger than 4 who can scavenge for food by themselves. The other problem is that I think you’re comparing today’s standard of what constitutes viability with what was required for viability during evolution in our ancestral environment.
As radical as this sounds, monogamous marriage is actually more beneficial to the average man. Consider how famous, wealthy, powerful people are for all intents and purposes, polygamous. They get as much tang as they want, whenever they want and if polygamy was legal, that would be a whole lot less women for the rest of us. Serial monogamy is the same thing; that is tang the rest of us aren’t getting. So monogamy actually forces the elite people that engage in that ‘hogging’ behavior to share potential wives with the rest of us.
Polygamy is actually better in some ways for women. Hypothetically, let’s rank 1000 guys 1 to 1000 and 1000 women from 1 to 1000. Number one guy gets number one girl (I know real life isn’t this simple but this is just a thought experiment). Now let’s look at girl number 100. If polygamy were legal, she could move up the ladder and say get guy number 5. She’s better off by having the 5th best guy available. Girl number five isn’t going to notice much of a difference in the resources she now has available but she’s only a little worse off. The one person who is royally screwed in this move is guy number 100. In our monogamous society, those moves up and down the ladder aren’t permanent. So the strategy for those predatory women is to get the baby of the alpha males and make him or some other schmoe pay. (So keep it under wraps folks for everyone's benefit.)
Polygamy is part of what’s wrong with the Middle East (that and they marry their cousins at a 50% rate in many countries), their supply of tang is so skewed, it has wrecked their whole culture and society. They’ve got people killing themselves and others to try and get some sex in the afterlife.
In California, child support is based on the percentage of time the child spends with each parent, then factored proportionately into the combined income of the two parents. The formula is set in stone and isn't adjusted unless there are chldren from other relationships involved (there is a "hardship" adjustment for the parent with these other children).
The system is fair in theory, but in practice, the court is much more likely to favor the mother in subtle ways. For instance, my ex works as a "hobby"; she doesn't care what she is paid, so she actually accepts pay CUTS with a smile! She doesn't want to work, so she manipulates the system to minimize her earnings. In my case, though, because I have 100% custody, a percentage of ANYTHING she makes goes to child support. I wouldn't take her money if I were starving, but I want the kids to have it and they won't touch it either.
So if you take WC2's last post seriously, the obvious solution is polyandry. However his math is interesting. If you assume each polygamous man gets the same number of wives, Number 1 guy will get gals 1 through "n" with "n" being the number of wives each guy takes, Number 2 will get gals #(n+1) through 2n, etc. leaving Gal #100 with guy 100/n. So if gal #100 can move up to guy #5 that implies 20 wives for each guy.
But I think what would happen, and does happen, is that guy #1 gets more wives than guy #2, who gets more wives than guy #3, and so forth. Now my question is: is this self perpetuating or self destructing? I mean, guy #1 will have more children than guy #2, who will have more than guy #3, all else equal. Does that mean that guy #1's wealth gets diluted more than guy #1000's, leveling the playing field? Or does it mean that guy #1's kids become the next generation's guy #1 through "x," with "x" being the number of average children and guy #2's kids become the next generation's (x + 1) through 2x?
The answer obviously depends on whether agnatic primogeniture, primogeniture, gavelkind, or partite inheritance (also known as partible succession) is being practiced. Since (male and not agnactic) primogeniture tends to be the norm in polygamous societies, we lean towards guy #1's first son being next generation's #1 and guy #2's first born being next generation's #2 and et cetera. And, all the younger sons are fucked. All the daughters are also fucked, both metaphorically and also actually by all the disenfranchised brothers and cousins.
Go to Colorado City, Arizona to experience the effects of this first hand. Primogeniture is really fucked and it ruined Ireland just as much as did the potato famine. Compare to France where gavelkind and partite inheritance (introduced after the French Revolution) led to improvements in horticulture and especially vinticulture (due to the need for increased efficiency brought on by the diseconomies of scale of smaller plots of land).
However, WC2's conclusion only tends to support the postulate that monogamous marriage is better than polygamous marriage, while failing to address the more trenchant question of whether marriage itself is worth a shit.
Dickhead,
I was being a little facetious in my last post. I just wanted to point out that no system is really perfect and wasn't really suggesting that we adopt any specific marital system. What I really wanted to talk about was how successful reproductive strategies of the past shaped our evolution as a species. Even if those various inheritence systems screws over the other sons and daughters, the point is that person is still producing a lot of sons and daughters and allows at least one son the opportunity to produce just as many. Each individual has to sort out how they want to live for themselves but I think we would all be better off if we understood how we developed. I know of several people with multiple 'wives' who have a dozen or more kids - my maternal grandfather has two wives, 14 kids and 20 grandkids and counting.
Consider that Ghengis Khan is one of the most prolific men in history. About 16 million men carry his Y chromosomes today, about .5% of the world's population and that doesn't include his daughters. Muhammad might have come close although he didn't conquer as much territory or women. [url]http://www.kuro5hin.org/story/2003/2/8/214236/6651[/url] Those are the type of people that we came from because those are the type of people who were best able to 'spam' their genes as widely as possible into the world.
But back to American women who are really no different than women anywhere else. They want the best mate possible but in the US the bar is set pretty high because we have a lot of media. Every girl is trying to get a Brad Pit, a Larry Ellison, or a Tom Brady. Girls in other countries also want an alpha male with a lot of resources but their perspective as to what a lot of resources and what constitutes an alpha male isn't as skewed as it is here in the US. Or rather, the average guy from the US might as well be as good looking as Pit and as wealthy as Ellison in comparison to some third world country girls' fellow male countrymen. Americans have more money, live in a nicer country, and are much more civlized (or wussified depending on your view) than guys pretty much anywhere else.
Hey there DH,
Please don't take this the wrong way but, that post of yours kind of left me more confused afterwards than I was before I read it.
Maybe it's just me but I had a bit of a hard time with this part...
"Number 1 guy will get gals 1 through "n" with "n" being the number of wives each guy takes, Number 2 will get gals #(n+1) through 2n, etc. leaving Gal #100 with guy 100/n. So if gal #100 can move up to guy #5 that implies 20 wives for each guy."
Also gavelkind, agnatic(agnactic?), I consider myself to possess a fairly extensive vocabulary and even I don't know what those words mean.
As for polygamy and polyandry, it seems self evident that if you assume a roughly 50/50 male to female ratio, for every guy that gets more than one woman, there will have to be another guy who won't be able to get one.
If you have polyandry the same thing will happen with all the unattractive women. Oddly enough, this isn't that far off from the situation that we currently have.
As for the first son of the first wife inheriting everything, it's a moot point since we don't have polygamy (or polyandry) here and likely never will.
A combination of these two systems would, in my opinion, lead to a free-for-
all with everyone desperately trying to hook up with the most desirable members of the opposite sex in great interlocking chains of matrimony.
As to the trenchant question regarding marriage itself, I do believe it's worth it. At least it is the first time you do it. After that, I consider it to be nothing more than a very expensive (and legally-binding) form of dating.
My 2 cents for today
Rock
ps. Maybe I can't have two wives, but how about hiring a couple of full-time live-in maids? Then I could bang them both all the time. That would be legal and a lot more un than being married. Does anyone here know of anyone who's tried this?
Joe Zop writes =
[quote][i]The issue in child support is not the guy or the woman, it's the kids, and if you're not gonna pay for who you produce then either wear a condom, get snipped, or keep it zipped up.[/i][/quote]
Your 'get snipped' comment leads me to tell the following Cautionary Tale
The Wise Monger always assumes that the P4P gals we deal with are thieves , liars and con artists
[ except for [b]RN[/b] , natch = she's a saint ]
But most amateur women will also take you for a ride if they can
Yours Truly 'got snipped' about 17 years ago ; and ~ 15 yrs ago I met this hot little blond through a business contact ; and we [i]really[/i] got along well and soon found our·selves drunk and in bed 'making the beast with two backs'
The subject of Contra·ception never came up = obviously I wasn't worried about it , and she didn't mention it either
[ Usually , when a woman freebie doesn't mention contra·ception , that means they're on The Pill .
Just *pray* that 'The Pill' isn't AZT !! ]
Well , Lo and Behold! About six weeks later , she calls me in a very distressed state and wants to meet me 'to talk'
At the meeting , she is tearful and upset , because she's [b]Pregnant[/b] !!!
I congratulate her , but just delivering that News wasn't the Real Reason she wanted to see me
The Real Reason , it turns out , is that she wants $$$$ to pay for an Abortion , which she insists she can't afford
My turn =
"Uhhhhh... I'm very sorry you feel that way about your Baby , but I had a vasectomy three years and so can't possibly be the Father and so I hope you'll forgive me for not contributing to your Abortion Fund . I'd recommend you talk to the Real Father and hit [i]him[/i] up for some Cash "
Man , the look on her face at that point was [i]price·less[/i] !!
Even though 'that Look' made me suspect that I had just narrowly dodged a Scam , I ultimately chalked that one up as a Real Dilemma for the gal . But then two years later the Exact Same Scenario happened !!
It was only then that I realized for sure that there is a sub·set of women con·artists who seduce guys and then extort money from them using this 'Preggers Scam'
A woman doing this only a few times a year can easily afford a Jaguar instead of a Chevy Escargot ; not to mention the mental satisfaction a good Con Artist always feels when they've successfully fleeced yet another Sucker
If you're a parent, you must pay your fair share. It's not about the ex, it's about the kid, who didn't ask to be put in the middle of any dispute you may have with your ex.
Unfortunately, the parent who has custody winds up being the administrator / manager of any child support payments that they receive and sometimes, the parent uses the money to buy something for theirself rather than the kid. I still say this is not a reason to stop paying, but rather ammunition to use against the ex whenever you go back to court for a child support/custody hearing.
Spike,
A couple of posts back, you mentioned that you "refuse to accept" any child support payments from your ex but also mentioned that somewhere down the road you might take her to court to get all the back payments in a lump sum - GOOD LUCK! If she ever made any attempt to pay you (and she has documentation) & you refused the payment, I'm pretty sure she could use that one refusal as grounds for never paying. At best, I think the court would make her start paying from the time you started asking her to pay, but back pay may be out of the question due to your refusal of an attempt at payment. She would of course, need a good lawyer.
Happy Holidays everyone,
CW
Gavelkind is when all the sons share equally in the estate. Agnactic primogeniture is when the oldest child gets everything whether that child is male or female. Traditional primogeniture is when the oldest son gets everything. Partite inheritance is when all the kids, both male and female, share equally.
Gavelkind was the norm in England prior to the Norman conquest. After that they went to male primogeniture. The effect of this is to leave the large landed estates intact, strengthening the gentry class (or at least not weakening it). When France went to partite inheritance in the aftermath of the Revolution, this meant that every time a patriarch (or matriach) died, the land got divided up and that led to agricultural diseconomies of scale. The French responded by increasing their efficiency to compensate (all though some may feel that "French efficiency" is a bit of an oxymoron, especially those who have ever owned a French car).
While the US does not have primogeniture, there is still a bias towards it. The eldest son is the most likely to inherit the family business or the family farm, for example. So, [i]to tie it in to the subject at hand[/i], he can command a premium in the marriage market. Also it often happens (more so in other countries, but it still happens in the US) that the family runs out of money to educate the younger children. That happened in my own family. The effect of primogeniture, whether explicit or implicit, is to increase the level of social and economic stratification.
Economic status is relative of course, and whereas in the US I was not wealthy enough to interest too many women, down here they are throwing themselves at me right and left in hopes of gaining financial security. Lots of luck, ladies!
BTW I actually had a woman go so far as to sue me for paternity, even though I am vasectomized. I let the (prohibited word) waste money on lawyers and court costs and then I showed the medical records and up to date lab results. It was great.
I've got a friend who was hit twice by abortion requests and found a great way to defuse things: he said he would pay the clinic directly when they went there, as of course he wouldn't be so ungentlemanly as to let her go alone. His take was that in the event she really was pregnant he was also cutting down worrier for the future. In one case it was a scam that quickly fell apart and in the other he ended up at the clinic (and a few weeks later back in bed, this time with a condom, with the same woman, who felt he was "emotionally supportive.")
On the other hand, folks here are always bemoaning the fact that it's a pain to get AW to have sex without prolongued hassle, so if you [i]do[/i] find someone who will do so easily I suppose it shouldn't be a major surprise if another guy finds her as well. If a girl's going bareback these days she's asking clearly not someone who worries a lot about the possibility of future bad news.
PZ, given that the "pregnant scam" is a time-honored way of generating marriage, I guess it's no surprise it's also used for economic gain.
[QUOTE=Cash Works]If you're a parent, you must pay your fair share. It's not about the ex, it's about the kid, who didn't ask to be put in the middle of any dispute you may have with your ex.
Unfortunately, the parent who has custody winds up being the administrator / manager of any child support payments that they receive and sometimes, the parent uses the money to buy something for theirself rather than the kid. I still say this is not a reason to stop paying, but rather ammunition to use against the ex whenever you go back to court for a child support/custody hearing.
Spike,
A couple of posts back, you mentioned that you "refuse to accept" any child support payments from your ex but also mentioned that somewhere down the road you might take her to court to get all the back payments in a lump sum - GOOD LUCK! If she ever made any attempt to pay you (and she has documentation) & you refused the payment, I'm pretty sure she could use that one refusal as grounds for never paying. At best, I think the court would make her start paying from the time you started asking her to pay, but back pay may be out of the question due to your refusal of an attempt at payment. She would of course, need a good lawyer.
Happy Holidays everyone,
CW[/QUOTE]It's a legal principle called equitable estoppel. If you refuse the right to receive payment (technically it's the child's money) then not only would the mom not have to pay, but theoretically the court could order you to make-up any potential difference since you're essentially mishandling the child's right to the money.
All this talk reminds me of when I was channel surfing and I came upon Reno 911 (I THINK that's what it's called) and a female officer got knocked up. One officer asked another who the father was and the guy looked around for a phone book. He couldn't find one, but he said: "If there was a phone book here, just pic a page and you'd probably find the father". I laffed HARD at that one.
DH's patience to pull off that HILARIOUS bombshell (IN COURT NO LESS!!) that eventually exposed the plaintiff as a gold-digging ho is a CLASSIC! He HAD to have strutted around the rest of the day with a large grin on his face thinking: "IN YOUR FACE, B*TCH!!"
GawwwDAMN!
My face turned red when I saw those last few posts. That almost happened to me back when I was 21 years old. This girl I'd been screwing came after me shortly after we broke up. She had this friend who was a total C*nt from hell.
I used to have a job at a fast food joint and one night the friend phoned me up while I was working. She told me that so-and-so is pregnant and if I didn't want to be a father and get stuck paying support, I'd have to cough up the bucks to pay for her abortion. I was young, stupid, and scared shitless... so I did the dumbest thing imaginable. I told her the exact truth. "Where am I supposed to get money for that?" I said, " I just work at this craphole for minimum wage and I haven't even got fifty bucks right now!"
Well, I guess that must have worked, because I never heard from her again. I saw my ex-girlfriend about a year later and there was absolutely no mention at all about any pregnancy or abortion or anything. It wasn't until I read Joe Zop and PsyberZ's posts that I realized that they tried the same thing on me.
WSG, who knew it could be so educational?
Rock
ps. Dickhead, thanks for the extra info. It helped make a lot more sense out of your previous post. With that word agnactic, I might just be the new scrabble world champion :).
This happened here in my own neighborhood in Warwick
One of my friends , a guy we affectionately call [b]Rusty Scupper[/b] , threw this big Christmas Party for all the neighbors at his Georgian manse
At the party , as will happen at these affairs , Vino led to Veritas and one of the younger of the couples began bemoaning their lack of a Child ; and how medical testing determined that it was a problem with the Husband that was to blame
Some·one suggested Artificial Insemination ; some·one else suggested Rusty him·self be the Donor
Rusty is very wealthy and successful and would generally fit any·one's definition of an 'Alpha Male' , so the couple approached him about it
"Okay" , Rusty sez "But none of that 'artificial' stuff... it's gotta be done the 'old·fashioned' way to work right" .
Yeah , Right... the woman was a little Hottie , and I'm sure that had some·thing to do with Rusty's 'Logic'
The Couple agreed , and the next time the woman was ovulating [ it's very easy to determine this ] , the husband took a Loooong Walk and Rusty dropped by to 'do his duty'
The woman did Not get pregnant , though ; so a 'date' was arranged for the following month .... and then the next month ; and then the next
After six months of this Plan not working , the guy got really depressed
He was in a Bar with some mutual friends of us all , and sez =
" I just don't under·stand why this isn't working "
One of the friends says =
" May·be it's because Rusty had a Vasectomy twenty years ago "
... which he had , in fact !!!
Boy , would I have loved to be a fly on the wall the next time those three got together !!
GREAT post, Dr. Math!! The missing link, though (alluded to by WhoCares in his follow up) is the varying definition of "Alpha Male". There are many standards by which a male human can be adjudged worthy by a female of the species and WC lists many of them, but, as is the case with Ghengis Khan (pronounced "jengis" if you are a democrat), the ultimate selector isn't what a woman wants. The cold harsh biology is that the dominant male will be most successful.
Males in civilized society simply aren't killing each other off as much as they used to. That is the ultimate biological selector; the less capable are killed by the most capable, and the most capable spreads his genetic material to as many women as he can get his hands on. This is the biological imperative.
but my ex has never made any effort to pay anything. She was only too happy to take MY money, but now it's like she's never been to court.
You may be right about her avoiding future payment, but not for the reason you think. There is still a great institutional bias against men in the system, even though the system is supposed to be fair. I can document cases of men who have actually PAID child support directly to the "little woman" only to have to pay again because the court wasn't happy with the form/timeliness/documentation of such payments. I have never heard of this happening to a woman.
Who Cares: Legal principles aside, I suspect things may be different in different jurisdictions. I have never actually REFUSED payment, certainly not through the courts, but she just hasn't made any. In my county, support payments are collected through the Family Support Department. All payments go through them upon request of the custodial parent. I've just never requested it. Also, support payments aren't treated like any "normal" indebtedness. Because the money actually belongs to the minor child and is only adminstered by the custodial parent, there is no statute of limitations and no penalty for misappropriation of those funds. By definition, the custodial parent is assumed to have the best interests of the child/ren at heart. That was the state of the law locally as recently as 5 years ago. It may have changed, and it is always subject to judicial "interpretation".
[QUOTE=Who Cares #2]It's a legal principle called equitable estoppel. If you refuse the right to receive payment (technically it's the child's money) then not only would the mom not have to pay, but theoretically the court could order you to make-up any potential difference since you're essentially mishandling the child's right to the money.[/QUOTE]
The child is the one who has the right to the money, even when he turns 18 if not paid he or she can sue to recover.
The wrong of one parent, in not collecting or going after the child support is not imputed to the child and does not bar an action on the child's behalf, whether by the custodial parent, a governmental agency or whomever has a right to reimbursal or collection.
The court would have no reason to order a custodial parent to make-up what the other parent was ordered to pay. Where did you get this lame-brained idea? The judge could only order the payor to pay, either to the custodial parent or the child (if over 18) or any welfare agency that paid to support the child during his minority, for reimbursal.
Furthermore, a custodial parent cannot waive or give up the child's right to support. It is a right vested in the child and can be enforced by anyone who has the parental right to do so, or the child himself after age 18.
Every guy who's interested in picking up chicks for a 'freebie' is familiar with the concept of the 'Wing Man'
There have even been Beer commercials dedicated to this self·less soul ; and every guy is Duty·bound to take on the role of Wing Man at least once at some point in his life
The down·side of the Wing Man is = every chick out there is *also* familiar with the concept , and they immediately see right through it
So now comes the WING WOMAN , and you can even hire her for the evening !!
[URL]http://www.wingwomen.com/NewYorkTimesArticle.html[/URL]
Actually , this concept isn't new = back in the day when my brothers and I used to hit the Singles Scene , we used to always drag our sister along for this very effect
My sister , who we affectionately call [b]FELLATIA[/b] , is a stunning blond who has been compared to many famous actresses & models , but who is a real döppelganger for actress / singer Susan Anton , [i]always[/i] broke the ice for us with chicks we'd end up meating [ and No , that last word is NOT a mis·spelling ]
Now , the concept of *hiring* a Wing·Woman seems bizzare to Yours Truly =
if yer gonna pay a woman , why not just make it a P4P deal with a Pro and skip the middle·man , and all the extra Time and Effort involved ??
And why should you have to pay a Wing Woman ?? You know how women are always wanting to be 'friends' ?? [ And I don't just mean women you've dated who've broken up with you ; I mean women in your day·to·day life ]
Cultivate and Cherish these 'friend·ships' , Gentle·men , for Two Reasons =
First : she may eventually introduce you to some·one you really want to get it on with , and
Second : this 'friend' can be invited out —— preferably not just the two of you ; but in a group ——to prowl the Club and Bar scene , with her serving as your very own , *free* Wing Woman
Heck , she's an 'Equal' , Right ?? So make her pay her own Cover Charges , and take her turn in the Rounds of Drinks rotation , too
And at the end of the night , Don't forget to tell her what a Great Friend she is = especially if she's your Designated Driver
[QUOTE=Npaul]The child is the one who has the right to the money, even when he turns 18 if not paid he or she can sue to recover.
The wrong of one parent, in not collecting or going after the child support is not imputed to the child and does not bar an action on the child's behalf, whether by the custodial parent, a governmental agency or whomever has a right to reimbursal or collection.
The court would have no reason to order a custodial parent to make-up what the other parent was ordered to pay. Where did you get this lame-brained idea? The judge could only order the payor to pay, either to the custodial parent or the child (if over 18) or any welfare agency that paid to support the child during his minority, for reimbursal.
Furthermore, a custodial parent cannot waive or give up the child's right to support. It is a right vested in the child and can be enforced by anyone who has the parental right to do so, or the child himself after age 18.[/QUOTE]I wrote my last post very badly. Everything you say is right about it being the child's money and I was actually trying to emphasize that point since it appeared that the other poster was playing games and messing around by not accepting the ex-wife's money. My friend's uncle screwed himself over by refusing the ex-wife's money. He told his ex-wife that he didn't need her money and that he would pay all of their children's expenses. He did pay for everything but later when he was having financial difficulties, he then wanted the ex to pay him back for all the money he had shelled out. She argued equitable-estoppel and the court sided with her. The point I was actually trying to make is that if you don't accept the ex's money and later the ex can't pay-up, the kid might be able to sue you for the money. Of course it all depends on the law in your jurisdiction.
Guys, don't scoff at Psyberzombie's suggestion. The "wing woman" concept has been used quite a few times, and to great effect. Hell, I still use it myself (when I get the rare chance to do it), and it (almost) never fails.
If you think about how women (especially American women) think, then you'll understand why it works: if they see a dude out with some hottie, then they seem to come to some conclusion that this guy is, in some way, desirable. I've seen the same effect with guys wearing fake wedding rings (me knowing damn well they're not married). For these women it's as if seeing that some chick actually "wants" you makes it okay for them to think of you as a decent catch. In my part of the world the term for this phenomenon is called "social proof" (as in the girl on your arm somehow "proves" that you're not some undesirable dork).
I know all of this sounds odd (and maybe a little dumb), but I've seen this shit actually work with my own eyes. Repeatedly.
Besides, when have you ever known females to be completely rational?
or lack thereof:
"Their latest escapade concerns Viola Trevino, who discovered she could obtain a child support order against a man without the inconvenience of actually having a child. Steve Barreras was forced to pay $20,000 for a child that, it turns out, never existed. Barreras protested for years and produced documentation that no child could possibly exist, but he was ignored by New Mexico's Child Support Enforcement Division. 'The child support system in this state is horrible,' an Albuquerque woman tells a reporter. 'A woman can walk into their office with a birth certificate and a ‘sob’ story and the man on that birth certificate is hunted down and forced to pay child support.' Yet the agency – which ironically claims to be keeping an eye on other people's parental 'responsibilities' – claims they were not responsible for the shakedown of Barreras, because they were 'merely enforcing child support already ordered by a judge.' No automatic provision requires the return of the fraudulently ordered payments, so to recover his money Barreras must hire more attorneys and sue.
"Though officials try to dismiss such shenanigans as aberrations, they proceed logically from the child support system, which was created by lawyers and feminists not to provide for children but to plunder fathers and transfer their earnings to other grown-ups. In an increasingly typical decision, a Massachusetts Appeals Court ruled in November that a mother could collect full child support from two men for the same child."
See link for the rest of this story: [url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/baskerville6.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Who Cares #2]The point I was actually trying to make is that if you don't accept the ex's money and later the ex can't pay-up, the kid might be able to sue you for the money. Of course it all depends on the law in your jurisdiction.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for your clarification. However the point I was trying to correct, and that you do have wrong, is that THE KID WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO SUE THE CUSTODIAL PARENT FOR THE MONEY. To have a cause of action in the courts, there must be a statutory basis, a contract or a tort, or a prior court order that established the right to support from the parent WITH custody. It would be an abuse of discretion for the court to order a parent with custody to pay the other parents child support. If this is the fiction or fear that you are trying to create and it is not consistent with law or equity.
Here's the only possible situations I could think of where a bizare result could occur:
1. Custodial parent denies visitation, thereafter Judge erases the other parents duty to support for that period of time. (this was the traditional way of thinking but no longer. the judges will simply give the other parent extra visitation to compensate for the lost contact)
2. The child is kidnapped by the custodial parent or someone else and the payor parent cannot pay (impossibility to perform) In this situation the judge might erase some of the unpaid support. However the payor child would have to go before the judge on his initiative to stop the child support from continuing and not "sleep on his rights" and wait and use it as a defense later.
But remember also that child support is a vested right of the child, and wrongful actions in denying visitation are not to be offset by also denying the child his or her support money. The two are no longer linked like in the past.
The wrongful actions of the payor parent would never be imputed to the custodial parent, so the custodial parent would be ordered to pay child support. If so it would be reversible error.
[QUOTE=Npaul]...It would be an abuse of discretion for the court to order a parent with custody to pay the other parents child support. If this is the fiction or fear that you are trying to create and it is not consistent with law or equity.[/QUOTE]I'm sorry for confusing the issues. It just seemed to me that there are so many bizarre and unjust results out there that I just assumed this to be a theoretical possibility. Just a few years ago, I never would've believed it if someone told me that smokers could sue tobacco companies and win but those people are now billions of dollars richer...
I just read that Westley Snipes had an arrest warrant issued against him because some woman wanted a sample of DNA to prove that he was the father of her child but he had refused. This same mentally ill crack user had previously made false claims against half a dozen other celebrities in several other states. As that woman and Viola Trevino proved, you don't need a basis in reality to make the law work for you.
Spike,
Paying child support for a kid that doesn't even exist? Yet another sign that the end times are upon us.
It would have been worth a good laugh, except for the part where the poor SOB has to go to court AGAIN to get his money back.
It's hard to believe that a scam like this could actually work.
Rock
I beg to differ...
The court doesn't HAVE to issue an order for Family Support Division to attach wages and/or sue. I was billed child support for THREE YEARS while enjoying full custody of my two daughters. The courts will look the other way rather than challenge FSD. It is a very tight knit group, and they all know each other. The mechanism works this way: 1. Ex wife goes on welfare. 2. FSD collects money for child support from father to reimburse county for welfare paid out. 3. Family Court covers for FSD because it means money in county coffers. By the way, this was CHILD SUPPORT, NOT alimony! Believe me, I know the difference.
I had my car registration renewal refused and actually had my drivers license suspended WITHOUT MY KNOWLEDGE (I found out when pulled over for a broken turn indicator; I missed a very important business meeting that probably cost me a couple thousand dollars. The cop damned near impounded my car!). FSD proceedures are very much like all of the (unconstitutional) property forfeiture laws now being enforced against suspected drug dealers (and mongers in some jurisdictions)... it is a system run amok with absolutly NO checks and balances.
You may be right about the court not ordering the custodial parent to pay child support, but... in my experience, the court can do whatever it wants to do. In California, the review/appeal process for a Family Court decision is almost impossible; higher courts as a rule don't like to get involved with the mess that is Family Law. The court didn't rule as such in my case; I had custody and there was no support issue, but FSD just went ahead IGNORED the court order giving me custody and continued to pursue child support for my dead-beat ex. The welfare department was paying her as if she had children living with her, and FSD, by damn, was going to have the county reimbursed! If you don't believe me, I can pm you with my attorney's name and phone number. All you'll have to do is pay his $275 hourly fee for the one hour minimum consultation.
By the way, I just finished reading your post. Are you a lawyer? If so, what jurisdiction? You are spreading some very inaccurate information. See my last post. Parents (almost always Fathers) are regularly screwed by FSD with the court's acquiescence or approval. I went to Famly Court once and waited for one of my many "hearings". I'm dressed up in my standard business attire, nice suit and tie. A scrungy looking bum type comes and sits next to me and starts talking about his case. I'm thinking "Shit, why do these losers always sit next to me?". He goes on and on about his new job, how he is finally making $10 per hour, the most he has ever made in his life(!). He tells me his wife left the county, he doesn't know where she is, and he hasn't seen his kids for two years. Now I'm starting to listen.
Before actually appearing in front of the judge, FSD attorneys "conference" with the "defendants" to try to stipulate for the purpose of saving the judges time (judges don't like to work very much). I was sitting there, so when the FSD guy came to talk to my new "friend", I heard the whole thing. The upshot was, my "friend" wasn't going to see his kids because there was no obligation to tell him where his ex was living. She was on welfare, and they were getting her checks to her, but they wouldn't tell the father where the kids were. Not their problem the FSD attorney explained. What FSD WAS worried about was the arrearage. It seems that my new "friend" owed (sit down now, and hold onto your hat) $55,000 in back support!!!!! This from a guy who was just now making $10 per hour!!!! When the victim said that it would take him 30 years to pay it all off, the smart-assed FSD attorney said: "Just consider it to be a house payment, but without the house". I damned near reached over and slapped that son-of-a-*****!! I was being dragged through the same pile of shit, but I at least had the money to pay the f*cking leaches.
Get real, N, your theory sounds good, but you ain't living in the real world, at least not in MY neighborhood!
I do tend to get obsessive about this topic.
You wrote:
"1. Custodial parent denies visitation, thereafter Judge erases the other parents duty to support for that period of time. (this was the traditional way of thinking but no longer. the judges will simply give the other parent extra visitation to compensate for the lost contact)"
I could find a dozen cases, RIGHT NOW, in which arbitrary denial of visitation by the custodial parent DOES NOT REDUCE THE SUPPORT OBLIGATION. If you EVER go to court and explain that you aren't paying because you have been denied visitation, you will offered two choices: 1. PAY UP, or... 2. GO TO JAIL. No disrespect, and I don't want to start a flame war, but you are WAY off base. I KNOW what happens in California, and I have been in contact with a couple of Father's Rights groups who confirmed that this kind of thing DOES happen all across the country, ALL THE TIME.....
Don't count on logic or the law to save you from the child support scam. In my experience, NOBODY wields more power on the local level than a Family Court judge and their henchmen at Family Support Division.
Spike, out....
A guy walks into a lawyer's office and says, "Can I ask you two questions for a thousand dollars?" The lawyer says, "Sure, what's your second question?"
PsyberZombie and Smut Villian are absolutely correct. Wing women work much better than wing men. Women are much more apt to trust the opinion of another woman regarding a man than they would be to trust that man's male friend. Having a woman friend basically says to other woman that you've been vetted by another woman and been found to be somewhat worthy. It also conforms to the evolutionary psychology theories I touched upon earlier. Woman want a man who can be prolific. If you already have women with you, you're signaling to other women that you already have a good start in that area. Of course there are a lot of strategies to finding a good mate and to mating in general, so not all girls will respond to this. But any signals you can send to potential mates that you are a good catch will help you.
The only good thing about having a lot of girl friends is that they can be useful as wing women. While the girls I'm friends with are often as dorky as I am, they still get me more dates than I can by myself. In fact the only time I've gotten bump-n-grind dances, phone numbers and dates at clubs is when my girl friends bring in other girls to meet me. I suppose I should make more use of them since I've helped them out so often.
Spike, I'm going to defend Npaul a bit and say that he's right about there being no basis in law for a person to be forced to pay the other spouse's child support obligations. He said for a judge to order it would be an abuse of their power. But going with your experiences and what I've witnessed, judges and FSD abuse their discretion all the freaking time. It's just another reason to be careful.
You are absolutely right. Thanks for helping me regain perspective. Npaul IS corrrect, and he is making a statement about the way things are (should be). I missed that point, sorry, by being so wrapped up in my own involvement with the pirates in question.
The FSD and Family Law Courts,and my experience with both of them, have been one of the few areas in my life where I felt totally and completely powerless. They are abusive and beyond any reason or comprehension. I guess I let my bitternes get the better of me.
Npaul, I apologize if my post was too harsh.
Happy New Year to all!!
Spike, out...
The wingwoman concept is an interesting one. It illustrates a profound difference between women and men in the way they think.
Think about it. Let's say you see a woman in the bar or at some social event. She's with a fairly good-looking guy, or even a couple of guys. Most of us would look, and think to ourselves "She's probably taken, ah well just keep looking".
Now, if we are to believe the wingwoman concept, women think a completely different way. The woman sees you with some good looking women and thinks "wow, that guy has those girls with him.... he must be interesting". I guess it makes sense if you think about it. I would have thought that they'd suspect you were some kind of player, but I guess that's not how the female mind works.
In fact, that might be a really good explanation why so many women DO fall for players all the time.
Rock
Rock Dog notes =
[quote][i]Now, if we are to believe the wingwoman concept, women think a completely different way.[/quote][/i]
[i]Of course[/i] women think completely differently than men do , R•D
You noted this your·self over the 'Morality of Prostitution' Board when you wrote that women are looking for 'value' in the men they have sex with ; whereas men just want to have their jollies with a hot young babe
Any·one with any inkling about Human Nature knows that women value Power and Wealth while men value Youth and Beauty
So when you see a beautiful young woman with another guy , you take it to mean that some other guy has already snapped her up
.... but when a woman sees YOU with another woman , that means you've already been 'vetted' for Power and Wealth ; and that you must have some even if it isn't apparent to the naked eye ; and that there·fore you are a better 'target' to zero in on than some poor schlub who's standing there with his buddies , none of whom seem to able to get a date
One other thing about this 'Wing Woman' Concept =
Once the ice is broken with a chick , it's up to you to now convince her that you're the Alpha Male she's been looking for
My brothers and I frequently 'dress down' and even though I own a tuxedo and even wear it on formal occasions , my usual 'uniform' consists of Hawaiian shirts or long sleeved tees ; Jeans or khaki shorts ; and sandals or boat shoes [ or boots in the snow ] . So I don't look wealthy or power·ful , but I *must* be , or I wouldn't have this gorgeous blond chick [ my sister] hanging around , now would I ??
It doesn't take more than a few minutes of conversation for a chick to figure out that in fact we all are doing pretty well ; and then her attention turns to my sister Fellatia = usually some comment like : " Doesn't your friend there mind you talking to me ?? "
My answer : " Who , Fellatia ?? She's not my friend ; she's my sister "
That [i]always[/i] kicks my new companion in·to the next gear = she figures she better 'lock me in' before some·one else can
This Wing Woman Concept *really* works , Gentle·men , so I recommend you use it while you're still young enough to get away with it [ when you reach my age , the only ones it still works with are the Gold·Diggers , although they can be 'loads' of fun , too ]
Yes, I would be more likely to talk to a man who had women in his group - but it's nothing to do with power, money or trying to steal another chicks man. Noticing that he has girls in his group tells me, among other things, that:
a) He's probably not a sexist pig that only feels comfortable going out with 'the boys' and he obviously treats women well enough to have collected a few female mates,
b) He's probably not a pervert or sleaze, because other women feel safe around him, and
c) He's probably not violent and/or obnoxious when he gets drunk, again because other women feel safe around him.
And later on, if he asked me to leave the club with his group for a nightcap or whatever, I would be more likely to say yes if other women were going to be joining us.
I would say the 'Wing Woman' concept DOES work, for exactly the reason that Who Cares #2 gave in his recent post ...
"Women are much more apt to trust the opinion of another woman regarding a man than they would be to trust that man's male friend. Having a woman friend basically says to other woman that you've been vetted by another woman and been found to be somewhat worthy"
... although I would add SAFE to that, as well.
Thanks RN,
NOW that stupid wingwoman thing makes sense. I practically smacked myself in the forehead after reading your post. Once again, we see how valuable it is to have a female point of view expressed here.
I think the key concept is that being around other women makes you look good to other women. However, this doesn't work unless you quickly establish that you are still available (without looking too eager :D ).
Hmmmm, I guess I'm just a slow learner.
Rock
"I think the key concept is that being around other women makes you look good to other women".
Yep - I would agree with that. Another thing that came to mind after I posted last was the 'pack mentality' that often seems to occur among men, especially when alcohol is involved. When a group of men are out together on the hunt, filled with false bravado and egging each other on, they can appear quite intimidating to their female 'target'. When their group includes women, men tend to be a little better behaved - I guess because they know they will suffer the wrath of their female friends if they're disrespectful to another woman!
As for establishing that you're still available, I don't think that's a hard task. Most women can tell from a mile away whether or not the girl you're with is your girlfriend. It can be a little difficult with REALLY close friends, where there's a high level of comfort and/or intimacy between you, but as a general rule I think women are pretty darn good at reading body language and determining whether the girl by your side is a threat or an ally. Just make sure you don't go out with a girl who has a crush on you or that you have a romantic history with - she's likely to come off as jealous and protective and make it clear to every woman in the room that you're off-limits.
Come now, RN, would you not apply the same attributes to a pack of women on a girl´s night out? Certainly no suitor could get within touching distance without meeting the approval of at least the majority of the sisterhood.
I agree that any unescorted ladies are generally seen as fair game by men on the prowl, but for sheer scale of bravado, you ladies have it all over the men. Ever seen or heard about "hen nights" and male strippers?
Uptight, repressed women acting like randy 18 year olds.
Sounds like fun! ;)
Cheers,
Sporadic
Women can be shocking when they get together - especially when male strippers are involved! I think we're all a little better behaved when we're in a mixed group. Too much oestrogen in one place can be just as dangerous as too much testosterone!
Was listening in to a radio show based in San Diego and this woman was ragging about how her boyfriend gave her inexpensive jewelry as one of her main Christmas gifts and when she took it to her jeweler to get it appraised it wasnt worth as much as she thought and was outraged. Not because he boyfriend lied, but because she didnt score the bling bling! The female co host was totally saying crap about the guy too because she also believed that love = spending tons of money on her. Dang just put on sign saying 'Will put out for gems." and stand on the corner of the red light district. The guy callers and guy cohost said maybe the guy was down on his luck or thought it still looked pretty but wanted to do something for her but the women just talked about 'deserving high class gifts' and so forth. The 'no money-no honey', attitudes of so many american women is so irritating to me when they dont realize that they are just being escort service girls and not 'classy' or 'discriminating'. At least with a bargirl I know she'll stop being sweet when I stop buying her drinks and stuff but I dont want to ever think the girl that says she loves me forever no matter what would cut me off because maybe money got tight and I had to get something pretty from the local mall for once instead of Gucci or Cartier's.
Belgrath, that is SO true! Wedding vows don't mean JACK SHIT to American Women. For Better or Worse? Get real! She's out searching for another dick supply the minute things get bumpy instead of pitching in and attempting to work things out as a team. For Richer or Poorer? PLEASE! I'm supposed to shell out FUCKING JEWELRY and other pricey trinkets JUST to stay on her good side and occasionally get laid IF she feels like it? I swear it's like what Montel William's brother said once about (American) women: their listening skills are like a sale; they hear what they want to hear (50%) and the other stuff (what they don't find palatable) is HALF OFF.
That poor schmoe is gonna end up paying (literally and figuratively) for sex that will eventually have all the fun of a necrophiliac experience and SHE will think that she's giving him the best sex since Adam and Eve got kicked out of the Garden!
P4P is the Great Humbler, 'cos it gives a woman perspective that her shit AIN'T all that!
Marriage is a total waste of time, money, and sanity in the 21st century, prostitutes and part time girlfriends are the new reality, at least in the USA.
Belgrath,
If that woman tried that kind of crap on ME, I'd do what any guy still in possession of both his balls would do. I'd tell her what an ungrateful kunt she is and then I'd tell her to go fuck herself (after I took the gift back).
There's way too many women out there with this kind of problem attitude. What causes it? I don't think anybody knows for sure, but I suspect that jealousy plays a big part. The average american female usually has an overly high sense of her self-image. This is especially true if she's even a little bit good looking. Then they look to see what other women are getting and that's where the trouble starts. "Hmmmm, I'm better looking than her, and her boyfriend got her a $2,000 item of whatever." Now they think that they should get something of at least equal value.
Not all women are like this. But, like I said once before, these are the ones we keep running into because these are the ones that are usually available.
Maybe we should borrow a page from the womens' operating manual. Don't just check her out, but take a good look at her friends as well. How do they all act? What do they talk about? If they seem materialistic and have that sky-high sense of entitlement, we might be doing ourselves a big favor if we just keep on looking.
Rock
Rock
Greetings everyone,
First off, this is going to be just a little bit off topic, but it kind of relates to this forum so here goes.
I've been watching all the news coverage about the tsunami for the last 2 weeks. Quite a few times they have shown people who are trying to help as well as people who are looking for lost or missing relatives. There's been people from North America and Europe too.
What I noticed was that most of the guys from the States were there with their wives. I never saw one single one of these women that were good looking. Without exception, they were loud and ho-hum looking with fat, out-of-shape bodies. The guys were no hell either, but still.
The european guys seem to be a different story. Lots of the swedish guys have swedish wives and I was a little surprised to see that they still look pretty good even after being married and having kids. Also, the euro guys seemed a lot more likely to go off and marry asian, african and latina women as there were quite a few interracial couples.
Hmmmm, maybe it's a trend. We've got foreign competition for jobs. Why not give women some foreign competition for men. I'd love to do a questionnaire type of survey and see what women think about THAT.
Rock
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Marriage is a total waste of time, money, and sanity in the 21st century, prostitutes and part time girlfriends are the new reality, at least in the USA.[/QUOTE]
It really gravels me [ and it takes a LOT for me to use 'gravel' as a verb ] when people say that Hookers "sell their bodies"
Hookers only [i]Rent[/i] their bodies ; it's the Wives who've 'sold' them....
Hookers divulge UP FRONT the bill of goods they will sell you; Wives include a lot of FINE PRINT that is NOT divulged and will take advantage of the sucker who fails to read it.
... not to mention that Wives sell their bodies the way those pushy sales·people
sell Time Shares =
You can only use it once a year ; but most wives don't even offer a 'Roll Over' Option , if you get my drift
Hey guys, Jackson's worked most of the bugs out of the system caused by the DOS attacks, but nobody's posting! I know we didn't run out of things to say, did we?
Server's back up, and it's safe to come out and play again ;)
Yay Hooray!
I noticed the exact same thing as Smut V. Maybe everyone is waiting for someone else to make the first post. So here goes.
Does anyone ever watch Maury Povich? I've noticed that a lot of the time a woman will have a paternity test done to prove to her boyfriend/husband that the kid is really his. What's interesting is that, every now and then, it turns out he isn't the dad.
Then the girl usualy gets a shocked look on her face before she runs to the backstage in tears. Seems like quite a few women are out there screwing around. I'm wondering if there's any good surveys out there that give some idea of how often this goes on.
Rock
Hey, Smut!
I was gonna make a comment on something I saw on Oprah a little over a month ago (or was it longer than that?). It involved something that occurred on 'Sex in the City", which, by the way, I have NEVER seen a full episode EVER. Anyhoo, on Oprah, the subject was when a woman falls for a guy but he gives her a "polite" brushoff. The phenomenon is called: "He's Just Not Into You". She goes onto interview this guy who readily gives millions of women the so-called signs of when a guy brushes off a woman and I immediately thought to myself: "Where is the fucking show that tells GUYS about the MYRIAD bullshit excuses and mindgames that WOMEN toss at men SOMETIMES for FUN"? I know I was talking to myself at the moment, but I was frustrated at the one-sided issue.
Sinanju Master,
That guy on Oprah was pushing his book.
This is from a description on Amazon.com:
"He's Just Not That Into You --based on a popular episode of Sex and the City -- educates otherwise smart women on how to tell when a guy just doesn't like them enough, so they can stop wasting time making excuses for a dead-end relationship. He's Just Not That Into You is provocative, hilarious, and, above all, intoxicatingly liberating. It deserves a place on every woman's night table. It knows you're a beautiful, smart, funny woman who deserves better. The next time you feel the need to start "figuring him out," consider the glorious thought that maybe He's just not that into you. And then set yourself loose to go find the one who is."
I read most of the synopsis and a few reviews. Basically, the book is saying to the female, "Look, if he doesn't call you, doesn't email you, doesn't ask you out on a date, well, maybe he just doesn't want anything to do with you."
And that's the hilarious part! Apparently, even women themselves understand that there is a tremendous need for a book that helps them THINK LOGICALLY when it comes to relationships. (not that there's any hope for that ever happening)
P.S. I have watched Sex in the City on a few occasions (never by choice) and have found that it can at times offer truly incredible insight into the fucked-up female mind. Kind of like watching a car accident........
LS,
I remember watching a few minutes of it once, and from what I was able to piece together, the broad Samantha had just lured an old flame into bed (it was morning and they had just finished doing the deed god knows how many times) with the intention of dumping him because (get THIS) he dumped HER sometime ago! ANYWAY, they get to talking and experiencing the afterglow and although he was oblivious to her plot, he dumps her AGAIN!! She then freaks out, throws a tantrum and says OUTRIGHT (I don't think this is VERBATIM, but it's very very CLOSE): "That's not supposed to happen! YOU'RE supposed to get dumped by ME"! I was laffing my ASS OFF!
Rock Dog,
"Seems like quite a few women are out there screwing around. I'm wondering if there's any good surveys out there that give some idea of how often this goes on."
This is interesting. After DNA paternity tests became common, biologists started using them on various animals. For many years, people thought some species of birds bonded with a single male for the whole season (and in fewer cases, for life). Anyway, it turned out that about 20-25% (on average) of nestlings in such species were fathered by a different male! Of course, to do these kinds of tests in humans would be unethical. But estimates are about 5-10% of the babies in the US are not fathered by the male that is supposed to have. Of course, both men and women are screwing around; and studies in other animals show that females screw around lot more than people previously suspected (but probably less than men).
Crypton
Programmes like sex in the city have an awful lot to answer for! Women in the west see it and suddenly believe it is ok to apply aggression to the jealous/revenge streak in them. This results in unnattractive witches such as that Samantha character. Personally cant watch the programme for more than 5 mins without filling with rage. Hopefully such shit will never be essential viewing for girls elsewhere in the world.
On the topic of infidelity, I read from a reputable source a year or so ago that approx 1 in 20 men in the US and UK were family men and fathers to kids that were not their own and completely unaware of the fact. This figure was derived from a relatively large random survey of couples. I still find this figure hard to believe, but made me think, and i guess yeh, i can see why a woman would do anything to keep a guy supporting her child even if she doubts the true paternity.
Means theres alot of poor dumb guys out there living a lie.
This TV program makes me wonder:
(1) How can women be so damned illogical but such perfect scheme artists at the same time (actually I think the 2nd part of that question is because we men fall for their schemes almost every time).
(2) Ever notice that this show was based on American women? Why not Asians or Latinas, or some other culture? Gives you something to think about, doesn't it?
Oh well, why should it matter; as soon as my financial situation is straightened out I plan to become an expatriate anyway.
P.S. Welcome back Sinanju Master, et al. Nice to hear from everyone again!
Since Infidelity seems to be the Topic du Jour , here's a link to an Article on the Subject =
[URL]http://*******.com/5uf9r[/URL]
Not that I totally agree with it ; fer ex , a psychologist is quoted as saying =
" There are some cases when someone is just having sex with different people out of a need for variety, but most people really think before they go off in that direction. If you have a good relationship, you're less likely to jeopardize it "
"SOME Cases" ??
I would guess that for the over·whelming majority of my fellow Mongers , the desire for a little Variety is the Primary Motive for why they're in the Hobby
Seen this movie "Hitch" last week. Funny flick. Alot of interesting things going on in the movie. First off it pisses me off because it kind of gives away some of the methods and tricks to get a womans attention. With that being said we need all the help we can get. In America anyway. anyways, Hitch is a date doctor who helps men get with chicks through various means. The guys contrive the meeting and do what they do, cause otherwise they dont have a chance. The womans ideal encounter is spontaneous and makes them feel special. We all know for normal guys this don't happen often. Unless you got money or are famous this don't apply. Thats another topic though. One good part is when eva mendes accuses will smith of " tricking, lying, and deceiving woman into getting, getting,"....and will smith says "getting out of their own Goddamn way". Now that there should be an eye opener for woman. Hopefully.
I am starting to realize, just about wherever you go in the world, you are bound to meet some crappy women. In many parts of the world, globalization has a lot to do with this pattern. I have seen a lot of lazy fat stupid women who watch TV all day in Europe and in Australia. In the past, things were different. Still compared to the States, beautiful women in both places are more approachable for the average male. I think it has to do with economics, there aren't a lot of guys with money in these places, so an average guy has a chance of picking someone up through his own charm and appeal rather than playing the meal ticket. Regardless, women around the world look at a man as meal ticket. Its just that some have lower expectations and some have higher expectations. I think in some parts of the world, if a guy has a job and a haircut, that is good enough for most women. However, in America, women have some ridiculous expectations. Those women that come from foreign countries to America can turn out to be the worst American females, greedy and expecting everything from their prospective mate.
mike12,
when i saw the trailer for hitch, i also became a little concerned that will smith might be giving away too much information. as you may be aware, some of that shit actually works! i mean really amazing jedi-mind-trick type shit.
perhaps the most extreme (and thus potentianly untenable) version of this type of thinking is ross jefferies speed seduction program. i'm not promoting it, hell i never even bought it. too bad for ross, much of this info is available for free on the internet.
basically what it comes down to is getting totally inside her mind, finding out her likes and dislikes, and artificially creating that reality for her without her having any idea what you are up too. in effect, you are programming her to like you and want to fuck you. sub-themes also involve ignoring her from time to time, just to remind her she's only a ho to you (recommended by 50 cent in one of his new songs, incidentally) and learning how to be that jerk all girls love so much.
it can be tricky to get the hang of, and certainly doesn't always work. but if you can find a simple-minded enough chick, the odds can be good. i've had some amazing results with chicks i thought were out of my league.
unfortunatly, as you may suspect, this type of technique is only sustainable over the short-term. in other words, obviously, the basis for the whole relationship is a lie (i.e. the fabricated world that you have created for her) and will last only as long as you choose to carry the facade.
also, it gets tiring being an asshole all the time. (at least it does for me.) i happen to love women. they are nature's most perfect creation in my eyes - physically, at least, mentally is another story. inevitably, you reach the point in the relationship where you want to reveal your true feelings for the girl, but this you can never do. for to admit this is to admit defeat and to hand her the victory. from this point, only two outcomes can occur: either she'll want to get married or she'll dump you. considering that neither one of those is a desired outcome, there exists no reason for continuing past a short-term relationship.
therefore, in these situations, its still 3f baby, all the way.
and the sad thing is, they'll love you all the more for it.
Guys,
If this trailer cums anywhere near the way American guys act around women, we really need an 'American Men' section...:D
[url]http://www.apple.com/trailers/sony_pictures/hitch/high.html[/url]
Well, you know, Long Stroker, there's always the other side of the coin that doesn't involve living a lie -- such as actually caring about her likes and dislikes and trying to genuinely bring them into the equation as opposed to creating a fake world.
But you're right -- that could mean really getting emotionally involved and possibly into a sustainable relationship, which would be "defeat."
"But you're right -- that could mean really getting emotionally involved and possibly into a sustainable relationship, which would be defeat."
Ain't that the truth - speaking as a woman who recently got dumped because she was (apparently) everything this guy ever wanted, which scared the hell outta him and made him run for the hills.
My now ex-boyfriend spent most of our last official day of coupledom talking about marriage and babies and how I was so different to any other woman he'd met and how much he adored me, blah, blah, blah. Two days later, he emailed me (yes...email, not phone) to say that he was scared by the intensity of what he was feeling and that maybe we should just cool it for a while. Two days after that, I was offically dumped (on the phone) and he started shagging a girl practically half my age. When I asked him what she had that I didn't have, he said it wasn't like that at all - being with her was just "easier". Easier than what? "Easier than being in love" he says.
Two weeks later and he's already dumped his little diversion. We still talk pretty often and he's made it quite clear he doesn't want to get back together. Even so, he gets nervous and tongue-tied every time he sees me and prefers to contact me via email because apparently "hearing your voice makes it harder". He said he would offer me a place to stay when I'm in town, but he "doesn't trust himself". He caught me in flagrante delicto with a 25 year old Justin Timberlake lookalike 'diversion' of my own last Saturday night and almost cried before storming out of the club - but noooo...he doesn't give a shit about me at all.
Do I love him more for treating me like dirt? HELL NO! I loved him (still do...very much) because he treated me with respect and we laughed and we had so much in common and he was the kind of BEST FRIEND I could picture having by my side for the rest of my days. I HATE players. I HATE not knowing where I stand with a man. I HATE being treated like a princess one minute and a wh*re the next. DON'T DO IT, GUYS!!!
Honesty is what most women want. And respect. And security. No, not financial security...EMOTIONAL security. We want to know how you REALLY feel about us, not sit at home by the phone wondering whether you're thinking about us or whether you're out doing a 20 year old barmaid. If you're picturing marrying us and having babies - tell us. If you're just attracted to us and wanna have drunken monkey sex here and there without commitment - tell us THAT! But for God's sake...just tell the TRUTH!
As for me, I'm going back to being the feminazi 'all men are bastards' man-hater that I was a few months ago. Hopefully, one day I'll find a guy who can prove me wrong.
Just so you know that the truth really CAN work (no matter how politically incorrect that truth may be!) here's how I ended up going at it like a teenager in the corner of the club with a cute stranger on Saturday night.
To cut a long story short, I was depressed as hell being in the same club as my ex and not being able to go near him, I met a fabulous chick who forced me out onto the dance floor, bitched with me about how much men suck (we don't actually believe all that stuff, but it always makes us feel better - call it a female bonding ritual ;) ) and introduced me to her Justin Timberlake lookalike friend. After an hour or so of me subconsciously looking over at my ex every three seconds, 'Justin' put his fingers into the belt loops of my jeans and pulled me towards him until my pelvis was against his, looked me straight in the eye and said "I could give you something to take your mind off him..." I laughed and told him that it wouldn't be very fair to use him as a diversion. He just put his arms around me and said with a grin "I'm a guy...I don't care WHY you're doing it, so long as you're doing it with me". Add a couple of cheesy "The man is a fool - you're the hottest woman in the room" type comments and how could I not take him back to my hotel room? :)
Thing is, he told me exactly what he wanted - no bullshit and no false promises. I like knowing where I stand. Don't tell a girl you want something that you don't, or make it out that you're something that you're not. If you think she's a hottie and you just wanna take her home for the night and bang her senseless, then tell her. You never know - that might be exactly what she's looking for!
The fact that many guys feel they have to use all kinds of tactics and strategies just goes to show how bad things really are.
Honesty? Just be yourself? Let her know how much you really want her? Naively, one would expect that openness and honestly would be the best way to go. Sadly, it isn't...... not where our women are concerned.
They really do seem to be more attracted to a guy who is interesting, but not interested.
Strange.
Rock
Exactly right, Rock Dog. "Just be yourself" is for SUCKERS. You MUST run game if you want to get anywhere with chicks in America these days. I know because I used to be the nice guy.......who always finished last when it came to women. Not anymore, baby. It's funny, acting like a jerk reduces the need to jerk-off! (I just came up with that.)
Rock, you nailed it too when you said: "They really do seem to be more attracted to a guy who is interesting, but not interested."
"Interesting", because you have to create that sense of adventure, that devil-may-care, "who knows what could happen next?" type attitude which sets their little hearts all atwitter and......
not "Interested", because the second they get the sense that you are too much into them, they'll drop you like last month's Cosmo magazine.
RN: I forgot that there are female regulars that post here or perhaps I would not have been so brusque with my earlier comments. I didn't mean ALL women are like this. I am primarily referring to 20-30 year old range American women. (My target audience.) In my experience, all they seem to want is fun, fun, fun.
P.S. Truly sorry to hear about your breakup RN. It certainly does sound like the guy was scared of commitment.
To paraphrase Dave Barry: "One of the married guy's biggest fears, constantly gnawing at the corners of his mind, is that at any given moment in time, some single guy, somewhere in the world is having more fun than he is right now." This constant distress is more than some can bear.
.... for [b]RN[/b] =
[URL]http://*******.com/6rqox[/URL]
... for the guys =
[URL]http://*******.com/66k4f[/URL]
Long Stroker, you read my mind to the "T"! Be yourself? Get REAL! American Women are like moths. DRAWN to the bad-boy fire. They know instinctively it's bad for them, but they STILL flock to it. When I was nice, I was stupid, and I'll agree on that with ANYONE who says so. A few years ago, I fell for a former coworker. Her bf had just left town and dumped her and left her in financial dire straits. Dumbass fool that I was, I moved in to fill the vacuum, offered her my shoulder to cry on and my ear to bend and I made her aware of my feelings for her. As RN would have advised, I was up front, so there was no ambiguity. I instinctively felt that she was eventually moving away from me. Because I was doing what women said I should do, I was crushed when I eventually learned that she found someone else. I vowed then from that moment forward NEVER to be fool enough to lower my shields, and I also tossed the heart out the window, because it would get in the way.
I'm not bashing RN, but women, in their need to feel politically correct, will put forth the appearance that they are fair in their dealings with men and that they will give any suitor "a chance". Anyway, I then began reading the material of Doc Love and the stuff he says makes so much sense. In a nutshell, you have to keep the woman off-balance by NOT being predicatble (translation: doing what 999 other guys do to try to win her over) and being a Challenge. I haven't seen HITCH yet, but I think I have the idea: "If you gotta fake the funk to make a slam dunk" by all means DO SO. I'm not advocating falsifying the very essence of who you are, but add "LIFE" and mystery to your public persona, and a chick will have to work to solve the puzzle. After all, don't we all feel better after we've EARNED something instead of having it given to us?
RN, I await your hatchet....
the kick in the gut (the most tangible beginning of the end) came when I told her of my feelings for her and she uttered the death sentence: "I'll ALWAYS be your friend".
With all due respect, Sinanju Master, it sounds as though the real mistake you made was being the rebound guy. I don't disagree in the least that tons of women have a bad boy thing (perhaps in the same way than many men have a sl*t thing that disappears when the start thinking about the Madonna who's chosen to pop out their babies, when it's suddenly time for the pure and virginal) but being the one who picks someone up off the floor after they've been put there does indeed very often set you up for gratitude and friendship but not more.
JZ and SM,
Rebound guy = Emotional tampon
To be used in pretty much the same way. You're there to absorb their crap and then, when no longer needed, get tossed without any second thoughts.
Possible countermeasures = a 5 minute time limit on listening to any pissing, moaning or whining. When the time is up, just tell her things will get better, the right guy is out there etc. and then tell her you've got to go because you have "things to do".
Rock
Joe Zop: To clarify, I wasn't meaning to equate a sustainable relationship with defeat. What I mean was that once you've confessed your true feelings to a woman, there are only two possible outcomes: Marriage or getting dumped by the girl. Either of these outcomes I would view as defeat. On the contrary, a sustainable relationship built on truthfulness from both parties would be my ideal, but I don't see how that is possible, given the way the economic and social system is currently set up in the US.
"Actually caring about her likes and dislikes" is okay if done superficially, but it's been my experience that once they get the idea that you're really into them, they're gone.
Sinanju Master: I see that you have experienced first-hand the hopelessness and despair of falling into the trap of the "Friend Zone." Haven't we all? This is one of the worst positions a man can find himself in. Being close enough to touch and smell the object of his desire, and yet powerless to consumate that desire. The literature suggests a way of dealing with this dilemma (which has its own acronym, by the way - LJBF - which stands for "let's just be friends.") I don't know if Doc Love has covered it, but it goes something like this:
At the very beginning, when setting up the first date (even though you never call them dates, you call them get-togethers, but that's a whole 'nother topic) on the phone you say something to the effect of:
"Let's get together for some coffee, get to know each other, if nothing else, I'm sure you'll make a great FRIEND."
This fucks with their little minds like you wouldn't believe. It plays to their insecurities, their fears, and even their self-esteem. Ironically these are all emotions they would hold YOU hostage with if you allowed them to.
Let her think that you will be evaluating her to determine if she is worthy of your friendship. Your reward will be clearly visible in the thought bubbles that form above her head:
"Who does this guy think he is, judging the value of me? What makes him so special? Hmmm, maybe I had better find out just what it is that makes him special, before some other girl beats me to it."
and
"I can't believe this guy just wants to be friends! Why doesn't he want to fuck me, like all the other guys I date? Am I not attractive to him? What's wrong with me?"
Logic would dicktate that if 99 guys wanted to fuck you and 1 guy didn't, that the problem must lie with that 1 guy. Statistically speaking, that 1 guy is an anomaly. But not to the female mind! That 1 guy is a riddle wrapped in an enigma. She will ignore the 99 other guys until she can "figure out" this one guy. And if he can get in her pants before she gets to the last chapter, he's golden!
(Which, upon review, pretty much echoes most of what you said in your post, SM. I didn't realize that I was making a similar point until I went back and re-read your comments. So I guess we're in agreement!)
PsyberZombie: That Pearls Before Swine cartoon was great. Lord knows I've been there before.
'Emotional Tampon"... A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! I LOVE that one! That's gonna have me chuckling at inappropriate moments for a WEEK! Hehehehe
JZ, you're correct. I made the MISTAKE of being the rebound guy. For that, I needed to be temporarily branded. Instead of an "A" across my chest that adulterers would receive in the early days of this country, I should have worn an "L" across my forehead for LOSER. Rock Dog's countermeasures seem great. Too bad I didn't use such logic when things transpired at the time, but when you're too close to the situation, perspective is an alien concept.
Sinanju -- "I'm not bashing RN, but women, in their need to feel politically correct, will put forth the appearance that they are fair in their dealings with men and that they will give any suitor a chance."
I never said I was 'fair' when dealing with men. When it comes to attraction, there's just no room for political correctness. I'm NOT gonna have sex and/or start a relationship with you if I think you're too fat, thin, smart, stupid, old, young, driven, lazy, etc for what I'm looking for at that particular moment in my life. You either turn me on, or you don't. You're either the man of my dreams, or one of my mates. There's either chemistry, or there's not. I'm not going to apologise for that. I'm hardly gonna bump uglies with a man I'm not attracted to, just so I don't hurt his feelings.
But as for giving any suitor a chance - if you mean do I go into things with an open mind and without prejudice, then yes. I do. I don't have a 'type' of man that I go for, as such. There ARE certain characteristics that I generally find attractive, but I never go specifically looking for those things. I rely VERY heavily on chemistry and instinct. If I'm not turned on (or at the very least, intrigued) within the first few minutes, its not gonna happen. But I'll give ANY man those first few minutes to at least have a go.
Rock -- "To be used in pretty much the same way. You're there to absorb their crap and then, when no longer needed, get tossed without any second thoughts".
Don't try and tell me that men don't do that as well. And often they are much more callous about it! Look at the poor girl that my ex used to help get ME out of his head. Here she is thinking he's got rid of me to be with her ("I must be pretty special for him to dump his girlfriend for me") and then he just gives her the flick when he realises it's not working. I actually feel sorry for her.
PS. Congrats on your senior status!
Long Stroker -- "RN: I forgot that there are female regulars that post here or perhaps I would not have been so brusque with my earlier comments"
Don't hold back on my account. I wouldn't have stayed with this board for all these years if I was THAT easily offended! And thanks for the kind words. :)
To all of you -- You're all sick to death of women scheming and conniving and playing with your heads, so your answer is...what...scheming and conniving and playing with THEIR heads??? Got news for you boys - the more YOU do it, the more THEY are gonna feel they have to do it. And the more THEY do it, the more YOU are gonna have to do it to keep up.
Here's my theory - if the woman is a lying, scheming b*tch, why would you want her? Just walk away, for goodness sake. She's not worth it. And if the woman is a genuine, honest person, then she deserves the same honesty in return. Don't play with her head. It's not fair. There's no excuse for game-playing from EITHER sex. Period.
RN, I don't ever remember begrudging a woman having the requirement of chemistry. It's that a lot of them say that they would give ANY suitor a "chance". They never state the requirements you did, which is why I hold their feet to the fire. That omission makes them appear blameless from the beginning, but when things turn bad, THEN they add the caveat. Even in our private conversations I don't remember EVER chiding you for turning up your nose at someone who didn't physically attract you or didn't stir your chemistry. If I ever DID, please produce the evidence. If a woman said UP FRONT the things you did about her requirements, that'd be cool and I would have no reason to chide her. HOWEVER, American women have mastered omission in order to manufacture the situation to make them come out smelling like a rose. As for men adopting underhanded techniques to make it with women, in early life, WOMEN BEGIN with a headstart on men in the arena of relationships and therefore develop more techniques of "guile". We are (admittedly) less developed as a whole in the arena of relationships than women and women KNOW THAT. The result is that they will take advantage of that fact and not feel ANY guilt about it WHATSOEVER. When a man engages in such underhanded behavior, it is no less abhorrent, BUT it is a lesser skilled participant playing catch-up to his more skilled opponent. I applaud any victory a man achieves in that fashion. It's wrong to feel that way, and if you truly want to bury the hatchet in my head, feel free to do so.
You seem like a cool chick who would be a great find, but I truly wonder if a man came at you with all the intangible requirements you described would last very long since you would have him all figured out in no time flat. You would be bored very quickly and looking for the guy who could keep you metaphorically (read: NOT NEGATIVELY) off-balance.
Accept my sharpening stone if you feel offended...
RN,
You're right of course. Lot's of guys will go after whatever girl is available just to get over their last flame. Use 'em then dump 'em once one's self esteem has been rebuilt.
We do it to women and the women do it to us.... each in our own particular way. Neither is admirable, but that's the way things are. I just happen to feel a bit more sorry for the guy who hangs in there, desperately hoping that the woman will give him a break.
Kind of like Charlie Brown hoping that Lucy won't pull back the football so that he can finally kick it instead of missing and landing on his ass every time.
Rock
Sinanju -- "I applaud any victory a man achieves in that fashion".
That is what disturbs me most about the conversations being held in this section. Call me old fashioned, but isn't love supposed to be a win-win situation? There shouldn't be a winner and a loser. If there is, then it seems one of you probably doesn't give a shit about the other - in which case, why the hell would you even be trying? Spite? Malice? To have another conquest to write about in your black book? Since when did love and attraction become a competition???
"You would be bored very quickly and looking for the guy who could keep you metaphorically (read: NOT NEGATIVELY) off-balance".
I don't like feeling 'off-balance'. I HATE feeling off-balance. I like to know exactly where I stand at all times. Fact is, I'm a very cynical, very jealous woman, with an overactive imagination. If my man takes that bit too long to return my calls, or acts cagey or does anything else that is too dramatically different to how he normally behaves for no obvious reason, I will start to worry. The more he puts me 'off-balance', the more I worry about his motives. Before long, I will have him written off in my head as a lying, cheating womaniser and I will be off looking for a young cutie to take my mind off him. Yes, I know that's not very grown-up behaviour - but neither is someone who apparently loves me 'treating me mean to keep me keen', as they say. There's a difference between keeping her interested and keeping her wondering. Nobody in a HEALTHY relationship should have to constantly wonder whether or not his/her partner gives a damn.
I think you're giving women way too much credit. We are already VERY insecure individuals. It doesn't take much to tip us over the edge.
To : [b]RN[/b]
While we all surely appreciate a woman's point of view here , there's one Basic Issue that's hard to over·look when we read your posts , RN =
This Board is about [b]American[/b] Women ; and YOU are not American
Even though I'm not the most widely travelled guy here , I have been to many different countries and have three pass·ports full of stamps to prove it and one thing I've learned is that American Women are Unique in their out·look and attitudes towards life
Allow me , if you will , to re·post this Article on Thai Women and why American guys fall so hard for them [ "Farang" is Thai for "foreigner" ] =
[i] " Farang men often fall madly in love with the first Thai girl they meet – even if she’s a rough street prostitute who doesn’t speak English. Love-sick farang men are queuing up at the altar to tie the knot with their dubious Thai mail-order brides but why don’t farang girls stir their passions in the same way?
Thai girls and farang girls could hardly be more different. Put simply, Thai girls are family-orientated and farang girls are increasingly career-orientated. In America, 44% of women aged 15 to 44 have chosen to remain childless and the trend is gathering pace. It’s easy to understand their point of view because, as men, we’ve always pursued our ambitions.
Farang girls enjoy opportunities that their Thai sisters can only dream about. In many ways, life in the West has never been better but it doesn’t seem to have translated into greater human happiness. We are witnessing an epidemic of relationship breakdown. Western men and women seem increasingly ill-matched and unhappy. Statistics reveal that dissatisfied western wives are divorcing their husbands in ever-increasing numbers and they can’t seem to find suitable replacements either. Does this mean that we farang fellas are all useless?
No, of course it doesn’t and I’m going to explain why. Despite the far-reaching changes in western society, the underlying attitudes of men and women remain broadly the same. Men still have a provider mentality and women still have an entitlement mentality. Men have always been attracted by youth and beauty and women have always been attracted by wealth and status. Inevitably, the mismatch between our utopian aspirations and the situation on the ground has created problems.
For the sake of his self-esteem, a man needs to be the breadwinner. Taking on the domestic role makes him feel like a failure. Women, on the other hand, feel uncomfortable in the role of provider. A woman would quickly lose respect for any man who appeared to be living off her. Women still feel entitled to a partner more successful than themselves. Consequently, the more successful a woman becomes, the harder it is to find someone suitable.
On the face of it, men are more easily satisfied. All a man needs is a girl who is cute and kind-hearted. Career status is unimportant – it’s her personal qualities that count. He needs to be her protector and hero. A brash career-orientated woman will never excite a man’s passion. If she’s pretty, he might humour her for long enough to get into her pants but a long-term relationship is unlikely to succeed.
Women who don’t touch a guy’s heart but who have soaring expectations are never going to find husbands. Men seeking unconditional love and respect from aggressive ladettes are never going to find wives. As a result, more people than ever are living lonely single lives between brief affairs. Throughout the western world, we are seeing explosive growth in the number of single person households. In the UK, for example, census data reveals that the number of single person households grew by 14% between 1991 and 2001. An unhappy world of selfish people living alone is now becoming reality.
Returning to the original question, I think that many farang men fall madly in love with a random Thai bar girl because they’ve never met a truly feminine woman before. Men feel a deep need to care for these needy fallen angels and to receive affection in return. Even when the affection is insincere, the compulsion is so great that few farang guys can resist. Thai girls play the role perfectly (See In praise of Thai girlfriends). They wield a power over men that their farang sisters have forgotten how to use. " [/i]
While at the gym yesterday, I was doing some cardio on one of the recumbent bikes when the new song from American Idol winner Kelly Clarkson came on the radio. There was an audible increase in the level of chatter coming from a few college girls exercising behind me. When the chorus came on, they couldn't help but to sing along:
"Since you've been gone
I can breathe for the first time
I'm so movin on
Yeah, yeah
Thanks to you
Now I get
I get what I want
Since you've been gone"
It turns out that one of the best things ever to happen to Kelly Clarkson was breaking up with her wretched boyfriend. He probably did terrible, controlling things to her, like ask her for a BJ every once in a while. Now that he's gone, she can "breathe for the first time!" Here's to "movin on!"
All of which got me to thinking. It's exactly as a poster here recently said. It's not marriage that's the anachronism in 21st century America, it's the male species! Other than providing a paycheck (or simply being the paycheck, in many cases) there is no reason to need a man around anymore.
Harvard's president Larry Summers is under pressure because he (correctly) speculated that differences between male and female brains explain why there are few women at top universities in science and maths. The feminists are using this to point to yet another example of a glass ceiling in which women are held back from the high paying jobs. All of which is irrelevant, as this firestorm of controversy obscures that fact that within 10 years or less, many of the high-paying math and science jobs (which men excel at) will be gone, having been sent to India or China. All that will be left in this country will be soft social-skills jobs that require high degrees of personal interaction and empathy (which women excel at).
As women begin to earn more of the money and become the primary breadwinner in more and more households (it is happening today, look at the numbers) the importance of the male in the American family will furthur diminish. President Hillary is only the beginning.
Probably within 50 years, masculinity itself will be viewed as a vice, not a virtue, and assailed as a primary contributor to violence in society. Laws will be passed, re-education camps will be formed, where men get together to "talk about their feelings" in order to coerce the last bit of manhood out of them.
Even further into the future, one can imagine a worst-case-scenario where men are born in slavery, kept in pods contained in vast fields, and periodically harvested, milked if you will, of their sperm at the whim of the female rulers. Because, despite the female's greatest efforts, asexual reproduction is simply unachievable. However, when engaging in recreational intercourse with each other, the females will still rely on that old standby, the strap-on dildo. (beacause a tongue is no substitute for that feeling of fullness!)
Myself, I hope by then to either be retired to a 3rd world country or dead.
No need for sperm farms - there's always cloning if we want to have babies. ;)
Long Stroker, what you described is a science-fiction variant of Amazon society from ancient Greek mythology. Men were seen as the enemy and useful ONLY for propagating their society. Upon capture, they were killed either outright, or they were made to be sperm donors and THEN killed after they served their purpose.
I also see such a grim (distant?) future upon us; the eyes and minds of men are blinded and dulled while we are led around by the only part that seems to do the thinking for many of us. Being used only as a harvesting vessel and existing at the whim of someone who is IL-LOGICAL for about one week out of the month is scary as shit.
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you...."
Gosh, yes, why, it sounds almost as bad as being seen as basically a baby factory and scullery maid... :D
And Larry Summers' primary point was that the expectations of the jobs -- which require single-minded focus, often to the detriment of family, were the greatest factor, with possible brain differences being secondary, and socialization and job discrimination pressures being third.
Yes, there are tons more women in the US workforce -- basically half of all workers. The AFL-CIO (also the source for the rest below) says that in 2000 17.8% of families were maintained by women, and that is definitely more than previously, when it was around half of that.
Now, I know I'm gonna get reamed for this but...
Before we start just throwing blame elsewhere, and saying marriage clearly doesn't work because women just don't need men, perhaps it's also time for men to admit their own complicity in the equation. The average husband does about 37% of the household labor, regardless of whether the wife works or not. Sixty percent of working women have full-time jobs, 63% of those work more than 40 hours per week, and 68% of working mothers work more than 40 hours. Americans are workaholics -- we average nine weeks more work in hours per year that do our brethren in Europe. And the vast majority of parents describe themselves as "used up" by the end of the workday. The truth is that guys simply can't lean on the "I'm the breadwinner so when I get home I deserve to relax and get what I want" argument any more because women are working every bit as much.
Here's the bottom line -- women in relationships with an equitable division of household labor are less prone to depression, more likely to be sexually attracted to their spouses and have better sexual relations.
To me, that's not an argument that women don't need men; it's an argument that they do.
Long Stroker wrote =
[quote][i] " Probably within 50 years, masculinity itself will be viewed as a vice, not a virtue, and assailed as a primary contributor to violence in society. Laws will be passed, re-education camps will be formed, where men get together to "talk about their feelings" in order to coerce the last bit of manhood out of them. "[/quote][/i]
Can we guys get together to "talk about our feelings" at the local Strip Club ??
Better still = how about at the local Brothel ??
If so , Count ME In !!
Confucious say :
" Wife who send Husband to Dog House
... soon find him in Cat House "
LOL PZ, pearls of wisdom like THAT are why many sought the counsel of Confucius
Lots of good posts here, funny, informative, and right to the point. Makes for good reading and learning all around.
On the subject of games, come on now, most women love them. They play games, act like drama queens, and throw invisible gauntlets down for the man to surpass in their mind. Why do you think women love soap operas, Housewives, Sex and the City, and gossip magazines. They can include this drama in their lives by manifesting it in Games. Create drama to feel like they are a character out of Sex and the city. I was a participant in "The Life and Times of a NYC Courtesan" starring ..... ..... until I wised up before my wallet went bust. When I was straight up with no games and just a gentleman it got me nowhere. Now that I can dish out the business, things are more on an equal level. It's a shame though. When traveling to other countries I get by on my own merits with no games for the most part.
Have a friend that pulls lots of chicks. The way he does it is by maintaining the big willie rap star image. He's got the fur coat, bling bling, Prada shirt, luxury cars, etc etc. Pulled one aspiring model type by telling her "you might have seen me in a 50cent video". Another one by flashing cash, and still more by alluding to big money connects and entertainment hookups. Hey, Who can resist a non-threatening, cool, rapper type anyway? Most of these chicks are barracudas though, so it hard for him to keep their company. They have real ambitious goals like copping E, emulating Brittany, meeting rapstars, partying hard, driving Lexuses, and being shallow. I dealt with one dancer chick one time and her behaviour was such a turnoff I didn't even bang her when the chance came. He's a great guy, good looking, and real personable, but this is what he has to do to get with these girls.
Confucious say =
" Women's panties not best thing in world , but next to it !! "
Confucious also say =
" Man who put cream in tart not necessarily baker "
Mike12, it's precisely that kind of bullshit that makes me think: "You say you want a gentleman, but you treat him like a fucking butler when you meet him! When you meet a shark in dolphin's clothing, you run to him like a mindless lemming and WONDER why your heart has been gutted from your chest cavity!" IN-FUCKING-CREDIBLE!
[quote]Mike12, it's precisely that kind of bullshit that makes me think: "You say you want a gentleman, but you treat him like a fucking butler when you meet him! When you meet a shark in dolphin's clothing, you run to him like a mindless lemming and WONDER why your heart has been gutted from your chest cavity!" IN-FUCKING-CREDIBLE![/quote]
Sinanju,
It's called LOGIC. The problem is not that women [u]can't[/u] think logically- it's that they often [u]don't[/u].
the following is from an advice column in the most recent edition of a tabloid called the [b] new york press[/b] =
how many hookers have the horndogs hired?
by judy mcguire
[email]dategirl@nypress.com[/email]
i've had girlfriends, and now a wife, but i've never been with a
pro. drawing on your extensive research, can you tell me how those
experiences differ from dating or marital sex? is it the attraction
of the illicit, or just the desire of a professional to please a
client, or is there something more to it?
—name withheld
there are about a million different reasons one decides to go the
pay-for-play route. a girlfriend of mine hired a variety of male
escorts in order to get back at her philandering husband. another
pal is very specific about his physical specifications—he likes big
butts and he cannot lie! he can't always find these qualities in
the women he dates, so he occasionally leases.
the rent-girl/boy's appeal is obvious; an attractive someone comes
over to your apartment (or, even better, a hotel), you give him/her
an agreed-upon fee, he/she gives you an orgasm. there's no need to
sit through his band's cd or feign interest in her extensive
collection of troll figurines. you both know what you're there for,
so you don't have to engage in that sometimes exciting, but
all-too-often-exhausting, mating dance.
we womenfolk like to think it's just the grotesquely disfigured
fella who's hiring all those hookers. you know, the man so
physically repulsive it renders him completely unfuckable by all
but the most strong-stomached and well-paid professionals. but
contrary to what we ladies might want to think, these poor souls
are the minority. lots of guys—lots of perfectly good looking,
normal guys—either have paid or will pay for sex at some point in
their life.
it's not like you can tell a potential hooker-hirer just by looking
at him. sure, some guys are easy—the leghumping douchebag you
caught peeking through the crack in the ladies room door, the
asshole misogynist who works in sales, the cripplingly shy nerd who
walks your dog—these guys are all likely candidates. but what about
that sweet elderly gentleman who's dating your aunt sarah? he may
be ponying up sawbucks to have an **** tranny take a crap in
his mouth.
then there's the dude who wants what he wants when he wants it.
when he decides he'd like a little oral action and he's either
temporarily single, or out of town or in the mood for a redhead
instead of a blonde, he dials 1-800-blowjob, much in the way he
orders a new pair of pants. for him everything boils down to
commerce, and he gives getting laid about as much thought as he
does getting a boil lanced.
of course there are the scamps who get off on the thrill of doing
something naughty. much like so many young girls think themselves
all scandalous by playing lesbian 'til graduation, these guys will
eventually grow up and realize that there's really very little that
will shock anyone anymore.
then again, there are the women-haters who feel that at base all
dames are *****s anyway, but i like to think that there aren't too
many of them.
some johns are just bored and horny, still others have a kink
that's not easily negotiated in "mainstream" society. i mean, there
are women who won't put a dick in their mouths. imagine what
happens to a guy who is really out there in terms of what gets him
hot? can you understand how frightening it is for the average guy
to tell his new girlfriend he can only get off if he's dressed in
full stinky [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord131][CodeWord131][/url], with a ball gag in his mouth, the soundtrack
from diva on volume 11, all the lights on and the curtains open? at
best, your average woman would think him a freak; at worst, she's
laughing at him, then running out the door while screaming. but
with a hired helping hand, he doesn't have this worry because
anything that he could possibly cook up, there's no doubt she's
seen weirder.
volume 18, issue 9
©2005 all rights reserved.
no part of this website may be reproduced in any manner without
written permission of the publisher yeah right
[url]http://nypress.com/18/9/news&columns/dategirl.cfm[/url]
A good way to get an idea of American women versus foreign women is to visit Canada. In Montreal, for example, a good escort costs about $100 US, a similar quality girl in a medium sized US city will charge at least $300 and in bigger cities it will get even more expensive. In Montreal prostitution is legal, and the more European culture tends to look at sex as less of a big deal. A woman isn't a sort of prize that she is in the States. In fact, walking down a street in Montreal during the summer one will be amazed at the sheer quantity and quality of women.
If you go to Europe or Latin America it gets even better as there are gorgeous ladies everywhere. I vacationed recently in Austria(not to be confused with Australia where I currently reside as an expat) and the houselady was this rather attractive Bulgarian 20 something. She was a very stunning women, yet was amazed me was how approachable and friendly she was, she even offered to personally take me on a tour of the city where I was visiting, Vienna. Most of women of her caliber in the States are often arrogant and condescending yet this girl was nothing like that. I was walking down the street in Vienna and I saw a lot of elegant looking European women who were completely approachable. Similar women in the States(if you could find them) would not be so friendly. If I walked up to a total stranger and played stupid, I would get a friendly smile. In some instances, I would be able to get their phone number for a date, and this was in a middle of a large European city!! Some mild diplomacy went a long way. Something like this would never happen with women in Boston or some other big city in the States.
No sex thanks - I'm Australian
March 09, 2005
From: AAP
AUSTRALIAN women are fatter and less interested in sex than a decade ago with many more single and childless, according to a government report released to mark International Women's Day today.
The Women in Australia 2004 report also shows that almost three quarters of the nation's women do little or no exercise and continue to earn less than males, receiving on average 84 per cent of the amounts earned by the opposite sex.
But more women than men are studying and women's labour force participation has hit its highest level with 66 per cent of all women working.
"Today is about celebrating those achievements and inspiring a commitment to sustaining and improving the position of women in Australia," Family and Community Services Minister Kay Patterson said.
The report shows the median age of Australian women has increased to 36.9 years in 2003 from 30.8 years in 1983, more than half are not interested in sex and about a quarter will not have children.
The number of women living alone rose to 13 per cent in 2003 from 11 per cent a decade earlier, while about 43.2 per cent of women were now likely to be overweight and 17.4 per cent were likely to be obese.
The report was compiled using a variety of studies from the Australian Bureau of Statistics and health organisations.
In his 1914 book, "America and the Philippines", writer Carl Crow views the first decade of the American colonization as a Golden Age of sorts. It was an era, he tells us, where Filipinos and Americans socialized freely, ignoring the strict racial divisions that were so prevalent elsewhere in the world at the time. This meant, of course, that American men were free to socialize with the local women. He writes,
“During the period just after the war Americans attended parties given by the prominent Filipinos and danced with the wives and daughters of their hosts. For a time they were on a social equality and it appeared that all men were really free and equal just as they are in the Constitution of the United States and nowhere else.”
Yet Crow laments that this paradise was soon to be spoiled. As the Philippines grew more politically stable and thus safer for foreigners, the wives and families of the American men in the Philippines began to arrive by ship. If the author is to be believed, the arrival of foreign women in the Philippines meant an end to the social and racial equalities that had been enjoyed by Filipinos to that point.
“Enter, then, the American woman. Peace had been secured and wives came out to join their husbands. At once another campaign against the Filipinos began. The social barriers set up by the American woman were quite as impregnable as those their hero husbands had built against the insurrectos (Filipino insurrectionists). The engagement was short but decisive, and ended with a second defeat for the Filipinos, for they were barred from the American drawing rooms...The American man, as usual, allowed his wife to regulate his social affairs, and as a result no Filipino is admitted to the clubs, and there is no place in Manila where the two races can meet socially on an equal footing.”
Thus, in Crow’s view, the arrival of American women in the Philippines was directly responsible for the segregation of Filipinos and Americans. Should a reader be unclear as to this accusation, Crow states with more emphasis that,
“The social seclusion of the American woman (i.e., her unwillingness to socialize with Filipinos) would not be so deplorable if there was any justification for it, other than race prejudice!”
-from filipinawives.com
Simply amazing stuff! 100 years and nothing's changed. Everyone hates competition, especially American Women.
As bad as those stats are for Australia, almost 70 percent of American women are either overweight or obese. So you have a seven in ten chance of meeting a fat American woman. If 43 percent of Australian women are overweight or obese, it means more than half of them are in reasonable shape. The best thing about Australia is that I get longer vacations than in the States, about 5-6 weeks a year versus the measly 2 I used to have in the US, so i get plenty of time to escape and visit other countries.
Maybe that's why Aussie gals are getting fatter - too many holidays (and as you know, holidays mean BBQs and copious amounts of beer!) and not enough sex to burn it all off!! :)
By the way...does anyone happen to know what percentage of American MEN are overweight or obese?
***Edit: Answered my own question. [url]http://www.obesity.org/subs/fastfacts/obesity_US.shtml[/url]
Seems American women might just have as much to complain about as American men do!
RN,
"and not enough sex to burn it all off!! :)"
I'm puzzled about the :). What's so funny about not enough sex:(?
On a whole different note,
A Dutch uni professor said that polygamy is the way for the future with so many women working and not enough cuddle time at home. The ladies should consider sharing their man.
I give that idea a big 'YEA!'.
American women are simply the mirror images of American men. I know at least a dozen men in their fifties with the big beer gut thing going on, and wearing sweats, and the grey disheveled beard who would not consider going out with a woman any older than forty, particularly if she was twenty or more pounds overweight. They have really high standards for their women and rarely compromise. Guess what? Most haven't been laid lately and their prospects aren't getting any better.
It really amazes these guys that a hot woman in her twenties or thirties who can get any guy she wants, picks a younger more attractive man or a guy who makes lots of money. Duh! Just as we American men don't give the time of day to unattractive women, neither do American women give the time of day to beer bellied guys with lousy jobs. It's supply and demand.
It's funny though. I work with a lot of young, tall, good-looking guys and I never hear them complain about American women. Usually just about how often they get laid and such. Even in other countries another factor might be in play. Given a choice between Tom Cruise or Danny DeVito, most women of other countries would pick Tom, however Danny would have chicks lined up around the block. I think people in other countries think Americans all have tons of money and that helps. It's interesting that when they get to the states they become instantly as picky as American women. It would appear to me they just don't have as many wealthy guys to pick from over there. I just don't believe they pass though a force-field as they step off the plane that turns them into gold-diggers instantly.
But other than that I agree with you guys. The days have long since passed that I can go into a night club and walk out with a hot chick. So I pick up hookers, and every so often travel to foreign countries where I pay women to pretend like I'm still young and handsome. And then I go home to my forty-eight year old S/O with the saggy boobs and wake up.
Civ2000
There's NOTHING funny about not having enough sex!!! Aside from the fact that I miss the sex itself, I've never been fitter than I was when I was a working girl. It tones up every muscle in your body and (depending on how enthusiastic you are, I guess) is an excellent cardio-vascular workout as well. It's also a brilliant stress-buster.
Here's a bizarre theory...what if it's the fact that we're not having as much sex as we used to, that's contributing to the ridiculously high rates of obesity and stress-related illness in Western society? What would happen if all those overweight and/or stressed out people started having regular sex? The physical exercise is obviously going to help tone bodies and reduce stress and frustration. The endorphins released at orgasm are much more potent than chocolate or icecream, reducing the desire to indulge in 'comfort food'. Having someone worship your body on a regular basis is exceedingly good for your self-esteem (low self-esteem is a very common excuse for depression and overeating) and when you feel sexy and desirable, you pay more attention to how you're treating your body and what junk you're putting into it. And it's well documented that the more sex you have, the more you want. Not to mention the more sex you're having, the more other people find you physically attractive (its true!) Eventually everyone would be banging away like rabbits and obesity and stress would become a thing of the past.
So what are you politicians waiting for? The only way to kick-start this thing is to decriminalise sex work, recognise hookers as health professionals and brothels as treatment clinics, subsidise escort appointments for both men and women and lets get F*CKING! The health of the Western world depends on it!!! :p
"Just as we American men don't give the time of day to unattractive women, neither do American women give the time of day to beer bellied guys with lousy jobs".
AMEN TO THAT! Everyone here knows that's the truth, but they very rarely say it out loud. I don't know how many times over the years I've been called 'frigid' etc, by men 20 or 30 years older than me, with beer bellies, BO and ketchup stains down the front of their unwashed shirts, because I said no to their advances. Face it - as frustrating as it is, most of us will never sleep with a supermodel. Most 50 year olds will never do it with someone under 25. Most overweight and/or unattractive people won't be able to pick up the hottest person in the room. Doesn't mean that it will NEVER happen - but the chances are pretty darn slim.
And us girls aren't immune to this, either. There are plenty of women out there targeting men who are waaaay out of their league. They're passing up the good-natured, cuddly gentleman their own age, in the hope of scoring themselves a young, fit toyboy with buns of steel. And they end up going home alone. Why would a young stud choose a thirty-five year old mother of two, when there are 100 young, fit cuties in the club that he can take his pick from?
"Why would a young stud choose a thirty-five year old mother of two, when there are 100 young, fit cuties in the club that he can take his pick from?"
This is why the term.............."So many women, so little time" applies to guys like me :)
That's the spirit, Tang!! :)
Money plays a big role in finding an American woman, but it plays a role with women anywhere. Women around the world will rarely consider a foreigner unless he is perceived to be affluent. That is why people who come from more affluent countries to less affluent societies are treated well by women. I think in America a man's looks are irrelevant, there are many cases of good looking women marrying rather unattractive men for the sole purpose of finding a meal ticket. If you bring a foreign woman into America she will most likely behave no differently from an American woman and will go after a guy with money. In fact a foriegn lady might even be worse because she will have some ridiculously high expectations. I have heard of guys bringing in foreign women only to be dumped/divorced once the green card came or they found a richer better looking guy. The general consensus around the world associates American males with being financially well to do. The best situation is for American men living abroad to take advantage of the fact that there is little competition outside the US in finding a good date.
Ever look at the ladies who are in first class?
If you are well-heeled enough (or lucky enough to get the upgrade from Biz, as is my case) you know what I am talking about.
Musicians, board level businessmen, celebrities of almost any stripe, are almost exclusively accompanied by stunning partners (RN, please note the gender neutrality here before you blast me!)
While there are seriously powerful/wealthy/important people who fly coach, the first class types are either serious trash or seriously wealthy. The wealthy ones are never ugly/fat/unfashionable, unless they are the man.
Money = power = attractive. Nothing new here. I do not think this is an exclusively "American woman" problem. "Trophy partners" cross all borders and cultural lines IMHO.
Cheers,
Sporadic
rn, you're right about anyone going toward the deep end when he/she can't even stay afloat without a flotation device, much less being able to swim in those waters. when i was a lot younger (my teens) i had tastes that gravitated toward the ubermodel. as i've accumulated a few years, i've relaxed my standards (not lowered them) to include those who could possibly bring something to the table that i may not be able to perceive at the moment. i still like ultra-attractive women, but i refuse to play their game by falling at their feet like some sailor made mad by the song of the sirens. i've looked twice (discreetly) at some women that my friends may turn up their at. i have my tastes and they have theirs.
my peeve is when women expect the sky when they are in need of a serious reality check that will show them they are worthy only of the soil the stand on. the following is an example from which i posted quite a while back.
i was chatting with a friend (a czech chick who was a former model and yes, i wanted to fuck the shit out of her) and she told me that a mutual acquiantance was lamenting the fact that she was w/o a bf. this chick told me that elizabeth was too picky and that she wanted to date guys who wore italian suits, drove high-end sports cars and either had cash like no tomorrow or were high-powered executives. i won't begrudge a woman that fantasy, but this was her standard and she was wondering why she had ni man in her life! to put things in perspective, elizabeth would rate a 4 at best on any man's scale. this level of cluelessness in women amazes me. and rn, before you reach again for the hatchet to bury in my skull, take note that in the past, i've acknowledged that i'm no adonis and i've never held a double standard regarding said subject. it's the "fork-tongued" phenomena (women saying one thing and meaning another and expecting a man to believe it outright) that has me yelling foul.
In order to see this issue more clearly, we must focus on the vast middle area in this discussion. I'm not crying because I can't go out to a bar here in the states, bring a 10 home and bang her. Super-hot girls (and guys) have always lived in a different universe than you or I, and that's only natural.
For all intents and purposes and for the sake of my argument, I'm referring to average looking males and average looking females. No massive beer-bellies or heifers. I'm talking about young and middle-aged people in the prime of their dating and babymaking lives.
As I see it, the problem is not 10s acting like 10s. That kind of behavior is to be expected. The problem is 5,6, and 7s acting like they're 10s. It's this artificially inflated idea of self-worth that has no basis in reality that really disgusts a lot a guys I know. She's an average normal looking girl, not a super hot chick. And yet she won't give an average looking guy the time of day.
A perfect example of this is Sinanju Master's Elizabeth who will only date guys who wear Italian suits and drive Ferraris. And she's a 4! One might be forgiven for thinking that this girl is simply out of her mind, an insane anomaly not to be concerned with. Sadly, her belief system is shared by many of her sisters.
Where does this type of thinking come from? It's no big mystery.
From the moment they sprout boobs, females in this country are taught that the world, no, make that the universe, revolves around them. Hollywood, MTV, Cosmo reinforce this idea of "Girl Power!", advising females to "Kick Butt!" like your favorite Charlie's Angel, and don't worry, because you don't need a man to be complete.
Does anyone remember the last song from one of pop's current princesses, Avril Lavigne, called Don't Tell Me?
Avril's song is basically about this poor slob who has been spending time with her lately. He has listened to her crying about whatever bullshit crisis is currently embroiling her life. Yes, he is functioning as an emotional tampon, but that's not the key point here. The point is her response to his advances. Not content to simply brush him off and move on, she threatens to assault him:
"Don't think that you're charming, the fact that your arm is now around my neck
If you touch my pants I'll have to kick your ass and make you never forget"
She ends the song with:
"Better off that way ...
I'm better off alone anyway"
Well, baby, if present trends continue, you will get your wish. As noted here recently by PsyberZombie, in his most excellent post which can be read here:
[url]http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=342344&postcount=2129[/url]
Throughout the western world, the number of single person households is on the rise: "In the UK census data reveals that the number of single person households grew by 14% between 1991 and 2001." Nearly 15% growth in ten years. That's not a demographic blip, that's a full-on shift.
CBGBConnisur, I agree with you when you say: "If you bring a foreign woman into America she will most likely behave no differently from an American woman and will go after a guy with money."
Perhaps this thread would be more appropriatly titled "Women in American Society," because any woman, once exposed to the atmosphere and options available in this great country of ours, will most likely begin behaving, and making decisions similar to her native American sisters.
I am reminded of an old saying (actually posted by somebody here, I think) that goes something like:
"The man has all the money, but the woman has all the pussy."
Each party has something the other wants, so arrangements are made, agreements are arrived at. Right or wrong, that's how it's worked for thousands of years.
But that expression is no longer accurate. Revised for this modern era, to reflect the ascendence of the two-income household and female financial independence, one might say:
"The man has half of the money, but the woman also has half the money and still all of the pussy." (not to mention ALL of the rights when it comes to divorce court and family court.) How can you arrive at a deal when one side holds vastly more bargaining chips? I mean, really?
Some will no doubt object to my boiling down of the vast complexity of male/female relationships to something as simplistic as "dealmaking." But when you get down to it, isn't that all it truly is?
So, what then? Am I advocating a return to the days of female servitude and 2nd class citizenship? Of course not. But, I for one am truly concerned for the future. Birthrates in ALL of the major western countries are falling, with the exception of the U.S. Men and women are so sick of each other's perceived bullshit that they have just about given up trying to get along, settling for loveless marriages or no marriage at all. And the only reason the U.S. birthrate isn't falling as well is due to the projected increase of the Hispanic population, through immigration and through the relatively high birthrate of Hispanics already here.
I feel that the gulf of perception that exists between the sexes in the industrialized world is practically insurmountable. The wants and needs of each gender are so far apart from what the other is willing or able to provide as to be laughable. I have no answers, only dread for the future.
LS, actually, I posted your paraphrased saying a while back. A friend told it to me a LONG TOME AGO and it goes like this: "Women have HALF the money and ALL the pussy", but you got the idea.
In your analysis, you also pulled back the curtain to expose the Great and powerful OZ. Women will gush about finding the perfect partner (making you believe YOU are the one) gush about the wedding (after all THAT is what it's all about; a day dedicated SOLELY to THEM to feed their ego) but fail to plan ahead of time for the feelings that will be most common the day AFTER "Happily Ever After". If a guy feels trapped when a woman brings up the issue of marriage, he has good reason as stated by LS in his most recent post. Coming to the table BEFORE marriage, the balance of power is about as evenly balanced as it's ever going to get because the woman has no legal and sexual "Sword of Damocles" hanging over his head to force compliance if something makes him balk. After the paper is signed and the wedding completed, he can kiss half his assets and ALL his freedom (NOT freedom to fuck around, I don't advocate cheating by EITHER sex) goodbye. Regarding LS's post on increasing single-dom and the dears I just stated, why WOULD a guy want to enter into such a situation? Especially if the party that gains power after the marriage ALREADY has an inflated sense of ENTITLEMENT?
CBGB has the perfect solution: marry them but keep them in their own country.
Seems like women always ask that age-old question: "why are men so afraid of commitment"?
Reading the last few posts here seems to pretty much answer that question.
I think an American male who visits a foreign country with a lower standard of living than the US will find that his rapport with local women will be better than with women back home. The perception being that Americans are rich, what criteria makes a person "rich" varies around the world. In some parts of Europe, where there is double digit unemployment most women will be happy with a guy with a job. The more affluent the society the more they will expect. Go to a Latin American country and any American male in good health will be treated like Hugh Hefner.
The Czech girl mentioned below lives in the States so her expectations and attitude are no different than most native born American women. Go to her home country and the attitude of local women will be much different.
'The World' doesn't see Americans as rich. POOR PEOPLE see Americans as rich - just as they see people from Australia and Britain and any other 'developed' country as being rich. If *I* travelled to a developing nation, I'd probably have local men falling over themselves to impress me enough to get a plane ticket to Australia. There are people in every country looking for a free meal ticket, including your own. Go down to your local 'trailor park' in an Armani suit and a BMW and you'll be beating women off with a stick! Its not because you're American - its because you can give them a way out of the hell they're living in.
And then, of course, there's gold diggers - who exist in every country and in BOTH genders. Men and women who are willing to lie, cheat and prostitute themselves in order to live a life of luxury at someone else's expense. (For the record, I can probably overlook deception from a person motivated by the desperation of poverty - I have nothing but contempt for gold diggers).
But one thing many of you seem to be forgetting when comparing 'foreign' women in their OWN country to American women, is the power of the 'holiday romance'. If I have the choice of an Aussie bloke or an American tourist for a one nighter, who am I gonna pick? The guy with the sexy accent who is leaving the country in a few days, or the ordinary guy on the street who is probably gonna ask for my phone number and hassle me for sex at a later date? The American guy is also in 'holiday mode', so he's more likely to take me out and show me a good time, PLUS he's more likely to spoil me rotten and treat me like a princess in order to get into my pants as quickly as possible, because time is not on his side. Local girls are always gonna find a tourist an attractive option for a no-strings shag.
And 'foreigners' are exotic (especially if you are a white person in a dark-skinned country or vice versa). I'm sure my Aussie accent and tanned skin would have a good degree of pulling power in other countries (certainly more than it has here, anyway!). And I, personally, love African-American men and Latin women. And I could sit and listen to an Irishman or an Eastender or a Texan cowboy all night long. A black man with a Southern drawl who can't pick up in his own country, would have a whoooole lotta luck in mine. :)
It's not ALL about the money, you know. Some of us just like to f*ck exotic strangers who are guaranteed to bugger off in the morning and never come back! LOL
holy crap! it's... like... rn peered into my head regarding the "holiday romance" thing! lolol
If we go with the equation that Long Stroker notes, which is that women in American society are earning pretty much the same as men with the same opportunities, and are working in much the same numbers, then doesn't that shift the "divorce is hell because she gets half of my shit" equation? Doesn't it really become "our shit" in a much truer sense?
Well said, RN, regarding the attraction of foreigners and the exotic.
RN are you telling us that sometimes you just want to pick up a stranger and fuck him blind and not see him again? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!!!
By the way Daddy lives in The Great State of Texas Hmmmmmmmm maybe I should be going to Oz?
I am quited interested in this discussion now that I have checked out this board. Thanks Long Stroker. This doesnt necessarily pertain to American women, but I think I am in love with a Peruvian girl I met on my recent trip. I have been extremely cynical and jaded about women in recent years and to discover mongering in foreign countries has been like a godsend to me. Now I dont look at American women or make any attempt at all to even befriend them, much less date or bang them. Anyway I met this girl and she was a real sweetheart and I felt enamored very quickly. She was just so completely opposite (so I think) of anyone here in the states I had ever dated.
I have thought about the quotes I have heard here recently that love equals defeat. The other night on the phone I uttered the dreaded phrase, "I love you." She had been saying it to me repeatedly in peru and on the phone after I returned. AS soon as the words left my mouth I thought, "oh shit, now you've fucked up. Why did you say that you fucking idiot?" I felt like I had just lost all the power leverage, or power, I possessed in the relationship and handed it over to her. Now I feel like I have lost what got her to want me in the first place. The fact that I was so unattainable to her. There has been no apparent change in her attitude that I can detect. Still sweet as sugar, still asks me for nothing, pays her own english lessons and turned down my offer to help her out a little. As in, too good to be true. But now theres no going back, I cant call her and say, "hey, Im not really sure if love you or not, I was in a good mood and happy to here your voice and got carried away. Lets take it slow and see what happens." This would effectively fuck everything up.
Do most of you guys really believe that to love is to lose with the vast majority of women, or just american women? How do you feel in these matters when it comes to foreign women in third world countries such as Peru? Is there no hope anymore for loving someone and winning? Sometimes I feel that way, more often than not. I had become convinced that I would remain single forever and just find a nice girl or two to visit in other countries as often as I can, or just go and monger exclusively and forget finding a nice girl altogether.
If I sound confused and fucked up about all this its because I am. I dont know what to believe anymore or what to do when it comes to potential relationships. I always feel that no matter what I do, I am going to either make the wrong decision, or lose no matter what I do. Well, I guess thats all for now. maybe someone can straighten me out.
Later
Milkster
Sounds like [b]Mikster[/b] has finally met a Trvly Feminine Woman for the first time in his life
Go back and read Post # 2129 here to see what I mean , Mikster
I agree with PS as an American it's difficult for us to understand the depth of love latinas are capable of. Even the pro's engage in a way that American women don't. Like you I found a really wonderful women in South America and sometimes it's difficult to accept that She does love me as She says She does. Is it a forever thing? It's too soon to tell but Shes as amazing as anybody I've ever met. I understand your conundrum though, perhaps you do have loving feelings for this woman but are still unsure if it's a lifelong thing who knows. Good luck sorting it out.
Having been married to an American women and my first Mongering adventures to Asia in 1992. I realized 6 years into my marriage that I needed to somehow dump the *****...It took my nearly 6 years longer to grow the balls to do just that. During the time loving those asian babes. Koreans, chinese, Thai, Phillipinas. I got caught with a Korean babe. Finally I was able to get out.
Since then I have been happy chases Asian and Latina girls. I really enjoy the Asians... I will finally marry a great Chinese Babe...She's even a sales rep who makes great money... Can anyone say whoooyeah!!! Retirement....Any way stay away from American women they suck money hungry bitches who should all learn that they need to take care of their men not squeeze them for everything they have.
Chicago62
I know I'm probably biased because of my own recent experience, but here's my opinion....cherish the moment, darlin'. The woman you care about, cares about you. It may be love or it may be just lust, but you'll never know if you don't give it a chance. Don't question it. Don't jinx it. And for gawd's sake, don't run away from it!!! Just enjoy it, babe. You're a lucky man. :)
..the divorce equation should shift toward a more even and equitable distribution of assets. But, isn't it true that the wife gets the house in 9 out of 10 cases and custody of the kids, too? American family court will presume that the man has neither the desire nor the ability to care for his offspring by himself, unless he can under burden of proof prove otherwise. Kind of like guilty until proven innocent?
Yes, both husband and wife may toil equally to build a home and a family, but if in the end, the woman takes possession of all that really matters, where does that leave the man?
... is the title of a book that is highly recommended reading for men every·where
Not only do women hold all the aces when it comes to Divorce Court , but they also have out·rageous advantages in [u]every[/u] area of Life : from the criminal justice system to the work·place to health care [ just as many men die of prostate cancer as women do from breast cancer , so where are [i]our[/i] little ribbons and billions in Research ?? ]
Here's a small taste of the book , and bear in mind that it was written before the phrase "hostile work·place environment" turned every female co·worker in·to a little Femi·nazi who keeps her male compatriots quaking in their boots at even the thought of telling an off·color Joke let alone hanging a pin·up calender in their cubicle =
[URL]http://*******.com/6t2ly[/URL]
LS, I think it's too early to tell how things will shake out, given that the serious rise to working equity is a relatively recent phenomena. Yes, in most cases custody is awarded to the woman, but it's also true that most guys do not request primary or sole custody and when they do fight for custody they have a far better chance of getting it. The difference in the percentage of men and women who don't seek custody is massive, and that can't simply be dismissed as a contributing cause for the disparity in custodial or asset distribution situations.
Unless men SAY they want custody they're not going to get it. And those guys (and I know several) who fight for custody out of a desire to continue to control their soon-to-be ex-spouses (generally guys who did the same during the marriage, but given that men tend to view wife and kids as a package deal also some more) certainly don't help the equation. The truth is that child support isn't really awarded as disproportionately as you might expect -- it's about 60/40 in favor of women. And given that, the majority of all marriages that end in divorce do so where there are kids, the issue really comes down to handling the kids.
Joint custody is really the wedge issue -- according to a study done in 1997, in states that had a high level of encouraging joint physical custody the divorce rate declined approximately twice as much as in states that did so in a moderate sense, and eight times as much as in places that heavily favored sole custody. That reduction may have to do with custody, control, or perhaps just how a court may potentially view splitting up assets.
But joint custody also makes it a bit inaccurate to say that 9 times out of 10 the woman gets custody -- women get sole custody about 72% of the time, with joint custody in about 16% of the cases. Still a disparity, but if I recall correctly it's not that dramatically different than the actual percentage of requests by guys to get all or a portion of custody of the kids.
I don't think it's really guilty until presumed innocent: I think it's guilty until demonstrated interested.
Thanks for the input to my posting, I appreciate it. We'll see how things shake out. I had a couple other things on my mind as well.
She told me the other day that she wanted to get a job so she wouldnt need me to help her with english school. Its a long story why she is not currently working, but trust me I verified it and its not an issue. Anyway, she wrote me last night and said she had obtained employment at a nearby casino as a waitress, the beverage kind, not in the restaurant if they even have one. I have been to casinos in Lima and elsewhere and I know what she is in for, and I suspect that she also knows. As in getting hit on by customers constantly, as well as other workers there. She probably has to wear a short skirt. I am wondering if this is a red flag at all. I was upset at first, and she got real upset for me not liking the idea and taking up some of these issues. Anyway, what are your thoughts on this? Anything to worry about in your opinions?
On a more topical note i am also wondering about how we act and treat the ladies from places like Peru. WE all know in America you need to be kind of a jerk and have the I dont give a shit attitude, dont say I love you, dont be sweet and dont act like a sensitive pus, etc. etc. When some of you guys were romancing the latin women, did you have the same attitude, as in being a jerk, a bad boy, etc? Or did you give show them your feelings and be a nice guy and truly be yourself and give in to how you really wanted to be? I had mixed feelings about this when I was there, I wasnt sure exactly if they really wanted a nice guy or not, or if it was just bullshit. They all say they hate the "machistas" so on would think being the nice guy would be the way to go. Its just so unnatural to be that way after living in the states all my life and learning how to get women here.
Thanks in advance for any opinions.
Later
Mikster
Of course she's upset. You may be only concerned for her welfare, but she's only hearing you say two things -- a) she belongs to YOU and you don't want any other men looking at her and b) you don't TRUST her.
Women are going to be hit on in ANY job they take, short skirt or not. I've been sexually harassed in a number of workplaces and innocently chatted up in others and none of those jobs involved me wearing a short skirt or serving drinks. It's just what happens to women in a public place, period. She has just as much chance of getting hit on while she does her grocery shopping.
She's a big girl. If a man hits on her, she'll deal with it. A man asking her out is completely harmless - it's how she responds to the offer that matters. And that's what she's upset about. That you obviously don't trust her enough to make the right decision when the time comes.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but the only thing that's really at risk of harm if she takes this job, is your ego. I'm sure the thought of her being ogled by other men every night will drive you crazy and play on your insecurities. It happens to ALL of us. But the fact is, if she loves you, you have nothing to fear. And if it turns out she *is* the type to sleep around, then it's better you know now than later when you're talking about marriage and babies.
And don't forget - other men may be drooling all over her, but YOU are the one she's sleeping with. Being with someone hot enough to attract that sort of attention should be BOOSTING your ego, not denting it. :)
Mikster,
RN has just given you some very sage advice. If your girl is a real "looker", then she's been getting hit on constantly anyway. She'll be okay.
And regarding the second part of your question: having lived in Mexico for 5 years really spoiled me rotten. I guess it was because I DID"NT have to play the "jerk" game while I was there. It was the only case I could ever recall (in my experience) where "just being yourself" actually did work for me. Maybe that's why I always felt more comfortable south of border than in my own country; playing the jerk role doesn't feel so natural when it doesn't match your real personality.
I just wanted to let you know that I think your job concerns are overblown. I have been living in Lima for the past year and am a regular at all the major casinos here.
First off I am 51 and recently married a 23 y/o peruana. Before everyone spams me, I am aware there is only one good reason to get married in Peru and my wife is definetly it!
There are only a couple of casinos in town that would attract foriegn men with money. Marriott/Miraflores/Hacienda. It is more likely your girl is working at a tragemoneda which is just a penny slot place filled with old women.
My friends(all mongers) and I go to the casinos 2-3 times a week and I have never seen one try to pick up a casino chic. I admit they are great to look at but as you well know it is way too easy to just pick them up on the street.
In fact I would be more concerned if she were working as a liquor model in her miniskirt or seethru jumpsuit at santa Isabel on a friday afternoon. ohoh just gave away a little secret.
Anyway before I moved down here I made sure my wife had no desire to live in the states and was happy with her life down here. I truly believe that is the key.
Buena Suerte,
LimaBusy
I'm involved with a wonderful Portena and as Smut Villian says you can indeed be yourself. However their are crucial differences between Latina's and American Women. They really, really no shit about it want you to be a strong alpha male. They will look to you for leadership and to take care of them. Regarding major desicions they enjoy having a say but are most comfortable if you make the desicion. Most of the men there treat them as children and think they have nothing to contribute, if you show them more respect and love they will pay it back 10 fold. However and I have found this to be important, they will test you to guage the size of you heuvos. Do not be afraid to lay down the law, never be afraid to say "No this won't work", forcefully if nessicary. If they discover that your afraid or intimidated by them forget it, it's over. I'm not advocating any kind of violance, when I say forcefully I'm talking about excersizing your power by will not violantly.
The responsibilty I think comes in making desicions not based on what's best for you but what's best for both of you. Treat them well, bring them gifts, tell them how much you love her if you do, in general the idea of "giving themselves compleatly" has more value there. Personally knowing the woman I refer to has taught me more about being a "man" than anything else I've ever experianced.
This information while not true in 100% of the cases I've experianced has proved to be so in over 90%. It's not everybody's cup of tea but I sure like it.
Oh yes and my girl has this delightful way of using sex to manipulate me, it's not a power struggle as we are used to here but rather a ratcheting up of enthusiasm when I've made her really happy.
I'm in agreement with RN as far as the job. It doesn't matter where she works, if she's attractive she's going to be hit on. Personally I get a kick out of it when other men desire the woman I'm with because she's shagging me and not them.
Enjoy
Guys,
Here is a fairly young monger... I'm 29 y.o. I traveled to Thailand, Russia, and Cyprus to practice the hobby. Currently I'm not practicing the hobby because I am involved with a wonderful woman. I am seriously torn inside. On the one hand, I like the company of this woman and feel that I can have a future with her. On the other hand, I know, if I marry her I'll miss activities like picking up gorgeous women from Moscow nightclubs or fucking Thai go-go girls. When I do a reality check, I have only four weeks of time for the hobby, the rest of the year I live my ordinary life with friends, family etc. It doesn't seem very reasonable to sacrify an entire life for a few moments of wild fun. But, then marriage... is it any good? People who've seen more of life, I appreciated your input. How was your marriage experience like? Would you prefer a stable OK marriage to the hobby? Why- why not? People who are older than 35, single and committed to the hobby- how do you feel inside? Is the hobby sufficient for your satisfaction and happiness or are you craving for a deeper connection with a special someone? And those of who are cheating on your wives- how do you guys feel? Lots of questions... I appreciated if you would offer your two cents...
If I were you, I would go for the lady. Mongering is a dead end and the mongering destinations will always be awash with poor, unfortunate women in search of a pay check. Of course, a commitment takes, well, commitment. Next time you go to Bangkok or somewhere, check out the old dudes sitting around the lobby of the Nana Hotel. Even the hookers joke about them. If you want them to be joking about you in the years ahead, stay the course. All it takes is a little bit of money and some free time to burn. You can boast to the world about your lady friend but you cannot do the same about some cheap pick up you found in Nana parking lot.
Hedonist, I agree with Domino. The upside of getting into a relationship that really works is much higher than the upside of mongering. Yes, as is repeatedly testified here, it doesn't always work out, but for a good deal of people it does. I'd take a good marriage over mongering any day. In your judgement the woman you're with is wonderful, and if that's truly the case then tossing that away doesn't make sense.
I think you state the equation correctly -- and in a decision between how much you're going to get laid on vacation and how you're going to live in your normal life, I say make the normal life work.
Headonist you don't say where this lady is from. If she is American and hasn't been raised in a cave by a pack of wolves than I say run like the wind my friend, run as you have never run before. I've been married twice to local talent and I can honestly say I will never again so much as date an American woman.
I don't disagree with totaly with Joe and Domino. There is something pathetic about 70 year old men propped up on V or C nailing 20 year old women. However; the ones I've talked to could give a fuck less what anybody thinks of their mongering, they thank god for the advanced pharmacuticle industry and grab another chica.
Personally, after a half a million visits to BsAs I found a really sweet woman not in the life. I've never in my life been treated by a woman as I am by her. If you found a nice Dyve, or Chica or whatever they call them in the orient I would suggest looking at the relationship. But with an American, no way. I really think it comes down to an issue of socialization. In most parts of the world the son's in a family are treated as Prince's and the daughters are expected to serve the family. Here they get treated as Daddy's little girl and they grow up with an expectation of entitlement, their needs and desires are what is important to them.
On this forum and in countless other places the experiance is the same. Sweet, sweet, sweet until they pop a few kids, their girlfriends start telling them what a looser you are for not being C level at some fortune 500 company, then file for divorce and turn you into a paycheck.
So there you have it, my dos centavos.
Daddy
[QUOTE=Domino]Next time you go to Bangkok or somewhere, check out the old dudes sitting around the lobby of the Nana Hotel. Even the hookers joke about them. If you want them to be joking about you in the years ahead, stay the course. [/QUOTE]And I'm still able to go to Bangkok and bang 20 year-old girls, then I did something right.
Laughing at me? Any 70 year-old who still gets joy out of sex has my respect. They have the last laugh.
SL
Marriage (even a happy one) doesn't guarantee a happy life. Remember, once you cross that threshold of matrimony, certain things will be unavailable to you. For instance, depending upon your own composure and the self-esteem and confidence of your spouse, that equation will determine if you can even LOOK at another woman, much less have a conversation with one. As much as I hate to admit it, overwhelmingly, it is the WOMAN who controls the emotional and sexual direction of the relationship. If she commits marital fraud by being Ms. Wonderful in the beginning and then turns into Mrs. Hyde and changes the geography of the playing field after the wedding, you can kiss a sane home life goodbye. To be fair by exposing the underbelly of BOTH sexes, when the afterglow of the wedding has faded, BOTH spouses get too comfortable (lazy) and that familiarity eventually breeds contempt. The spouses are no longer forced to present their best side to the other, because the incentive to impress no longer exists. “I have him/her now and I don’t have to work as hard to keep him/her happy” is the law of the land. That is a HUGE contributor to each spouse having a jaded view of the other. Examples of HIS thoughts: “Man, she’s letting herself get fat”, “She doesn’t dress up anymore”, “She doesn’t want sex as much anymore”. Examples of HER thoughts: “He’s turning into a slob”, “That spare tire is growing every time I look at it”, “He used to rock my world in bed, now he just wants to make his deposit and roll over and sleep”. BOTH eventually look outside the marriage to regain what they had BEFORE they got married.
Hedonist, I can only speak from my own frame of reference. Therefore, IF I ever got married, it would be to a woman who has many intangible traits that would be admirable by ANYONE’S standard. If I ever DID land such a woman, you can bet your ass that I would CONTINUE to do the things I did to attract her BEFORE we got married LONG AFTER the wedding day. Like anyone, I’ve done a lot of stupid shit in my life, but having the knowledge I do NOW, engaging in behavior that would turn such a spouse OFF would NOT be one of them.
On the other hand, if a 70 year old dude is STILL getting his freak on, I can't hate on that! More power to ya Gramps!
hedonist,
each of these guys make a good point in his own way, but the only correct answer can come from only one place - [b]you[/b].
like many here, i monger because i happen to like sex and don't feel like jumping through a bunch of hoops to get it, i don't do [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], and i don't feel like having pussy being used as a weapon against me. but let's face it: life is more than getting some strange ass on a saturday night in tijuana (or bangkok, or...). you can always get some p4p nookie, but it's damned rare that you get to share it with someone who might actually be worth it. but make damned sure she's worth the commitment; if you chose wisely then she may make you forget about mongering :) if not, then you'll end up right back here (trust me on this one!).
bottom line: it's better to have tried, and failed, than to spend the rest of your life wondering "what if...?". but it still helps to know what you're getting into before diving right in.
"Bottom line: it's better to have tried, and failed, than to spend the rest of your life wondering "what if...?"."
Can I get you to pop down here and have a chat to the man that *I'm* in love with???? :)
The Nana Hotel Lobby guys are ok and seem happy enough with life in general and, no doubt, the price of Viagra in particular. I am sure they get their rocks off on occasion and we can all nod and wink at that. But it is not a life in the same way a relationship is. Sure, they sit around talking of their back aches, their 401 ks and the cute ladies they joked with in the bar the previous night. They are not drunken European soccer hooligans and they all seem to be well set financially: lots of talk of their top of the range cars back home. But they don't really have a home anymore coz they are now Nana lobby lizards, forming tangential relationships with ladies, bell boys and other mongers who treat them tangentially. A relationship, on the other hand, has to be more than a good roll in the hay which, when phrased like that, seems like something juveniles do.
I hope this advice is useful. See me in Nana lobby for more;)
Hedonist,
At a very tender age I tried marriage for six faithful years. Thankfully, a lack of good sex was never an issue. It was the other things that finally made me get out. I was a very frugal person and most of my paycheck went to maintaining my wife and kid. If my wife wanted something she always got it from me. For the most part I lived to support my family and didn't spend much on myself, however one payday I bought something for less than $30 to entertain myself at home since I was no longer allowed to go anywhere unaccompanied. Well, that turned out to be a mistake because she bitched at me for a week about being selfish. Visiting my parents without her was out of the question even though she hated them, so I was expected to not visit them period. She read all my letters from friends and family, privacy was a thing of the past. I couldn't even run to the grocery store or pharmacy without her wanting to come along. Her friends added to the drama with stories about how their men did them wrong. I was prohibited from sending gifts to my parents at Christmas because "they didn't need it" but she sent to hers.
Eventually, I re-grew my balls and asked for a divorce. She flew into a rage and vowed to make me pay for "ruining" her life, and pay I did. Now tens of thousands of dollars later I'm finally free again. You don't know what freedom is until you've lost it and then regained it. I'm not saying that mongering is the best way to spend the rest of your life and neither am I saying that marriage is always bad. However, I will say this. Never marry an American woman, and never marry any woman and bring her into the USA or any Western country where the divorce laws are biased against men. You will regret it. Of course, you can choose to ignore my advice and find out all of this yourself much like I did when wiser folks warned me.
There is something in North American society that causes women to believe that men exist solely to provide for their needs. I'm not interested in finding out exactly what that is, but at least I can help stop someone else from unwittingly becoming a slave or a lap dog. It will always be sweet and nice before you sign that contract, then it will change. The change might be overnight or it might be gradual but it's guaranteed to be more than you bargained for.
If you want to stop mongering and enjoy your relationship with your girlfriend then by all means do so, but do not marry. Eventually, when you do not give her the diamond ring, the house in the suburbs, the SUV and a few kids she will move on and look for another sucker. Meanwhile, save and invest your money so that you can move abroad to a country where women still care about men and don't use kids as the ultimate weapon. You have more time than you realize. At 40-45 yrs of age you can settle down somewhere and have a family if that's what you want. For now enjoy your girlfriend, mongering or both because you'll only be young once.
Ouch, not sure if they had grown kids or anything.
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/25/divorce.settlement.ap/index.html[/url]
Not sure the court system would award a cheating husband that much if she was the wealthier partner.
Choca Monger, it's great to have the voice of experience to chime in every now and then with words of wisdom. I'm glad for you that only SIX years were spent in incarceration.
A friend of mine who got married on November 15 2003 (he jokingly refers to it as 11/15, much in the same manner the general public SERIOUSLY refers to 9/11) has all but been totally written off by our social circle. After the honeymoon was well behind them, I would drop by his house for about an hour on Sunday afternoons (when I was sure that they would be winding down the day's activities) to say hello and chat. I then felt that the wife resented my company and I eventually stopped seeing him. In fact, I haven't even CALLLED him on his work cell for months. The last time he got to go out with us (we don't go out to strip bars or anything, just a night of video games and beer) the warden (whoops! I meant WIFE) said: "This counts as your time with the guys". He didn't even get to spend TWO HOURS with us. I saw the beaten down, broken look on his face and I thought of prisoners on Death Row. Poor bastard... On TOP of all this, this is his second marriage! His first wife was a MAJOR LEAGUE B**** and is at this very moment, trying to squeeze MORE $$ out of him for child support. His current wife has issues that I think may fester to the point where they will cause her to walk. I won't go into details, but it was just an illustration of my point.
I've been married well over 20 years and not [i]once[/i] have I ever had to ask "permission" to spend money on myself or spend time with my friends. Yes, if it's a notably large purchase we'll talk about it, but that's the nature of any two people dealing with a budget, and even then it's a question of when and not whether. Now, I'm not racking up a garage full of extra sports cars just because I like them in lieu of paying the gas bill, but I sure as hell don't have to worry about whether I want some $50 trinket at any point. And I most definitely don't ever have to worry about having friends over, going over to hang out with them, heading off to say, spend all night playing poker or hitting the bars or whatever. Do I consider what's going on at home? Do I consider whether I'm spending more time with my friends than with my wife and make sure she's getting enough attention and affection? Sure I do -- that's how actual adults in relationships act -- but I make the decision. And my wife has the same options. I can certainly manage on my own if she wants to go out with her friends once in a while.
Anyone, American man or otherwise, who puts up with the previously mentioned types of obnoxious controlling conduct fully deserves to have his balls kept locked in a drawer and have his wife keep the key. And the shrew wife is not simply a US phenomenom by any means -- I know guys elsewhere in the same boat, and most of the examples of the battle-ax woman type that are found in literature aren't from American writers...
Those kind of "rules" often come into effect because the guy isn't doing enough to make things work at home in the first place. Or because he's made so big a point of marrying some gorgeous hot piece of ass that he doesn't bother to figure out whether or not she's a total manipulating b*tch the rest of the time.
If you let a dog think it's ok to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] on you, it will. And you deserve it.
Some of you on this thread always post the worst that can happen. Myself, like Joe, have been married (and to an American woman, twice) and what Chocha Monger describes doesn't come close to my reality. I, as well, never needed permission to spend money on myself, nor did I need permission to visit my family and/or friends. I would have laughed at the mere suggestion and then did it anyway. And reading my personal mail? No way. It sounds like he got stuck with an insecure controlling *****. A lot of women get stuck with guys like that too.
Now, I've been divorced twice, as well as have most of my friends and there's not a single one of us paying alimony. Most of us got married to college educated women and were in two income households. Sure you could marry some gold-digging, lazy, and unemployable clout, but most of us didn't. Things didn't work out for a variety of reasons. Most of the American men and women I know got married because they love each other, not for the financial gain. Of course most of us are not rich; myself a journeyman welder making $28.72 an hour currently. Not bad money, but nevertheless the gold-diggers don't line up at my door.
So, my advice to hedonist is this: Get Married. Yes, even if she's an American woman. I'm glad for both my marriages and still wouldn't go anything differently. I'd still marry both of them. The fun of traveling thousands of miles to pay for sex pales in comparison to waking up each morning with a woman you truly love and who loves you as well.
Now if you ask these guys if they'd get married if they knew the gal wouldn't sue for alimony, the sex would continue to be good, they could still have their personal lives, etc, etc., most would be singing a different tune. It's hard for a lot of guys (women too) to want to get hurt all over again. So, there's a tendency not to risk it.
The one out of two marriages ends in divorce statistic is a bit askew. If that's the case (and they never mention this), then one out of two marriages survive until one partner dies. Pretty good odds there. And then you figure in the Johnny Carsons and Elizabeth Taylors who they also figure into the stats and that artificially affects the odds. I think if you did a study of how many marriages survive where the partners get married for the right reasons, are committed to making the marriage work, and remain faithful, I think you'd probably be up to 2 out of 3 marriages last.
So, give the relationship a chance. And if you're really worried get a prenup.
Civ2000
Civ is right. I DO present the worst case scenario ONLY to shed some light on what COULD happen if a guy doesn't keep his wits about him or do his research. An ounce of prevention is worth 18 years of cure!
If Hedonist's girl is a true gem worthy of walking down the aisle and later walking together upon the path of Life, then by all means he should marry her with alacrity! Hell, I'd even volunteer to throw rice as they walk out of the church!
I spent a couple of weeks in Europe and came back to my sobering everyday reality. I got on a train to work and this complete fatass chick sat right next to me and squeezed me in. It was kind of a punch in the face bringing me back to reality that American women simply don't cut it anymore. After spending some time in Europe seeing slender statuesque beauties that would actually give me the time of day, it was very sobering that I only get two weeks a year to escape my hellish experiences with American women. Traveling around the world in search of women is the greatest pleasure in the world. I have traveled to nearly 24 different countries in every region of the world, what amazes me is that everywhere I have gone, I have seen textbook examples of class, beauty, and womanliness, that doesn't seem to present itself in the US, UK, and Canada. I have ruled out bitchiness as being an Anglosaxon trait because Australian and Kiwi women are very ladylike compared to their North American and British counterparts. It really sucks with the current geopolitical situation that travel abroad is getting tougher and tougher. Still with some of the women I have met while abroad I don't mind sticking my neck out for them. I get only a measly two weeks a year, a lady I met in Australia says she gets 8 weeks a year, I think I am migrating to Ozzie.
Have you ever noticed that the eagle on our nation's emblem holds an olive branch in one set of talons and arrows in the other? We wish for the best case senario, world peace. On the other hand we are prepared for the worst case senario which is having to wage war. In fact, we're so well prepared that we're better than anyone else at waging war.
Now, I'm aware that my case was pretty close to or at as bad as it gets. This will not be the case for everyone. People will have different experiences and that is why we come to this forum to exchange the lessons learned from them. Every fisherman will not catch a sardine, some will catch a shark and have to cut it loose. Anyway, that is just probability at work and not necessarily due to any action on the part of the hapless fisherman who gets ripped apart by the shark.
Another thing I would like to mention is that these women who sound as though they've come right out of a Grimms Brother's fairytale work pretty hard to conceal their evil side until they get the one ring. After my disaster I learned to flush out even the most skillful actresses but sometimes it can take a while depending on their talent. I'm sure that bad women are not limited to the USA I have met a few from abroad also, hence my advice to Hedonist to stack the odds in his favor as much as possible.
Maybe Lady Luck will smile on Hedonist and he will never know the pain of being neutered by his woman. In the end he will read all these posts and make his own decision. If he walks down the aisle I'll be right there with Sinanju Master throwing rice, and if she lops off his balls down the road I'll be there to comfort him too.
Guys,
Thanks a lot for your input. They were all very helpful. I have a lean towards marrying her. Right now it feels OK to give up mongering. I just don't know the degree of my addiction to mongering. A good friend mine got married three years ago. He and her wife sweared to remain faithful no matter what. They were really in love. He was faithful until one day he came accross a pair of big breasts freely bouncing under a sweater without limitations bra... If fucked her, he would break his promise. If he didn't fuck her, he would cheat himself because he wanted to fuck her as hell. Well, eventually he fucked her and didn't tell his wife... He is still married and loves his wife, but he also fucks other women at certain intervals. This is of course hypocrasy, but I really can't blame him. Pretty much all my friends are doing the same. It seems to me that this is the only way men can satisfy their natural sexual instincts and at the same time conform to the requirements of our societies- have a warm home with a loving wife and fuck a ***** once in a while to get rid of any tension caused by the monotony of commitment... The reason of my hesitation is that this is not something that I want to have in my own life...
Anyways... I thank you all for taking time to share your thoughts with me.
Court dismisses man's theft claim against lover who kept semen
CHICAGO - An appeals court said a man can press a claim for emotional distress after learning a former lover had used his sperm to have a baby. But he can’t claim theft, the ruling said, because the sperm were hers to keep.
The ruling Wednesday by the Illinois Appellate Court sends Dr. Richard O. Phillips’ distress case back to trial court.
Phillips accuses Dr. Sharon Irons of a “calculated, profound personal betrayal” after their affair six years ago, saying she secretly kept semen after they had oral sex, then used it to get pregnant.
He said he didn’t find out about the child for nearly two years, when Irons filed a paternity lawsuit. DNA tests confirmed Phillips was the father, the court papers state.
Phillips was ordered to pay about $800 a month in child support, said Irons’ attorney, Enrico Mirabelli.
'Trapped in a nightmare'
Phillips sued Irons, claiming he has had trouble sleeping and eating and has been haunted by “feelings of being trapped in a nightmare,” court papers state.
Irons responded that her alleged actions weren’t “truly extreme and outrageous” and that Phillips’ pain wasn’t bad enough to merit a lawsuit. The circuit court agreed and dismissed Phillips’ lawsuit in 2003.
But the higher court ruled that, if Phillips’ story is true, Irons “deceitfully engaged in sexual acts, which no reasonable person would expect could result in pregnancy, to use plaintiff’s sperm in an unorthodox, unanticipated manner yielding extreme consequences.”
The judges backed the lower court decision to dismiss the fraud and theft claims, agreeing with Irons that she didn’t steal the sperm.
“She asserts that when plaintiff 'delivered' his sperm, it was a gift — an absolute and irrevocable transfer of title to property from a donor to a donee,” the decision said. “There was no agreement that the original deposit would be returned upon request.”
Phillips is representing himself in the case. He could not be reached for comment Thursday.
“There’s a 5-year-old child here,” Mirabelli said. “Imagine how a child feels when your father says he feels emotionally damaged by your birth.”
© 2005 The Associated Press
i had read that article posted by long stroker a while ago and debated it with a few of my buddies. the whole not swallowing the semen thing is indeed extreme but the artificial insemination part is not new. while i was in college i heard of cases where guys had sex with girls and used a condom but then left it in girl's waste paper basket or somewhere else within her reach, the guys would think that it was all over after cumming and going in a hurry. however, once in a while a scheming girl would apparently use the still viable sperm in the condom to inseminate herself. given the age group involved, i wouldn't imagine that anything more complex than a finger dipped in the sperm and then inserted in the vagina would be necessary to accomplish the goal.
girls can get very serious about trapping mr. right by any means necessary once they hit that 25 to 30 yrs old stretch and the looks start fading and the ass widening. therefore, be sure that you use spermicidally lubricated condoms to render your gift useless and if you blow your tor**** in her oral cavity then confirm ingestion. this all sounds like a hassle but it might save you $800 per month in child support payments and the mental anguish. ;-)
young mongers beware! i stand ready to be chided for posting the negative.
Its interesting reading the last two posts. I had a very similar thing happen. And to be fair to this board and its subject, it was not with an American woman. All I can say is be careful if you are with a female that might want to latch on to you. Most importantly when she has reached/passed the early 30s mark and has (I suppose) become deperate. It is a lot easier than I thought for them to become impregnated.
Fellas, also beware the chicks who will take a needle pin and insert it into the center of an unopened condom while your away, in the bathroom, whatever. It happens more than we may know. I have heard numerous bitches call in to talk radio shows and confess that they do it to get pregnant.
There is an evil, but hightly justified, way to get back at a girl who you know is going into the toilet trash can to get some of your jiz out of the used condom. I dont remember the name of the stuff you buy, but its 1000 times hotter than hot sauce and when she inserts it into her vagina lets just say that she will think a million times about ever doing it again. After she's out of the hospital that is. hehehe Protect your love gunk like a treasure chest, that's what it is.
My opinion on the other topic, is never marry an american woman. Just not worth any risk to me no matter how she looks or acts. Not anymore. Take you chances with foreign women, preferably latinas or asians in my opinion.
Milkster
Mikster, that stunt reminds me of the prank that the geeks pulled on the jocks in "Revenge of the Nerds". Does anyone remember that? The stunt where they washed the jockstraps of the athletes in BEN GAY and when the athletes donned their jockstraps, they were writhing in ball-burning agony! Hehehehe! MAN, who comes UP with this stuff??
I might admit that there are few American women that are actually okay, but they are in a very small minority. I think American women as a whole are very narrow minded and shallow. Its not uncommon for an American man to have a relationship with a foreign women but you will never see this situation vice versa. A foreign man who comes to the US will probably be asked to get lost by most American females. To most American women an immigrant is someone who is poor and less of a man. Its all about money with American females. To American men an immigrant woman can be seen as exotic, different, and exciting, an escape from the ordinary. It just proves that men are more open minded and tolerant than women.
Amen brother, you nailed it right on the head. I know this firsthand being an immigrant myself.
I have met a lot of idiots in other countries who think that the typical American woman looks like Angelina Jolie or Jennifer Aniston. I remember this one idiot, a total loser and a bum with no job, he was Bulgarian and had a knockout good looking girlfriend who went to work while he sat on his ass. He kept talking about Jennifer A in front of his girlfriend, and I said to myself,"You *******, you got a fine woman next to you who takes your shit, even though you're a bum without a job, what makes you think you're gonna get Jennifer A???!!". There are millions of these idiots around the world who believe everything they see on TV and movies. They don't know good they have it, the same applies for Australia, most Australian dudes are total idiots.
If American women are so awful, what should we make of American men? Can they be so totally different? I think lots of posters here have just got burned by a handfull of American women and they are bitter. Fact is, most American women are in stable relationships, often with jerks, and you canot deny that. What about your American mothers, sisters, cousins? Are they all jerks too? Maybe America's social dynamics are different from those of dirt poor countries but I would like to hear someone praise American women for achange, if only to break the monotony of this thread.
I, for one, don't bash American women. I love American women. Although I often agree that some are just out to take you for all you have, that doesn't remotely describe most of the women I know. I have quite a few women friends and none of them are the gold-digging, conniving types you read about here. And like I've said before, they are simply mirror images of American men.
This isn't meant to insult anyone here, but when I was twenty-years-old I did not pick up hookers. Why? Because I didn't need to. I could get all the young fresh meat I wanted. So, now that I'm approaching fifty, and still like to bang twenty-year-old girls, it does get frustrating that I can't just take them home like I used to. I could start bashing American women because one half my age won't go out with me, and say how wonderful some Chilean woman is because she will, but it doesn't change the fact.
I think if us guys were to chase the chubby fifty year old who goes to work everyday and is lonely like us, we wouldn't be bashing American women. We would find them great companions who weren't looking to break the bank. The problem with me is I just don't find them attractive (even though I'm a chubby, greying, fifty-something). I still chase the young girls and in the one in fifty times she actually wants to go out with me, quess what? She's after my money. Shock!
Bottom-line: I love American women. If I want some eighteen-year-old girl to gush over me like I'm God's gift to women: I'll hop a plane and visit Cambodia.
Civ2000
OK I´ll come out of the closet. Although my mother and sister are decent and not bad for being American women, my dad and brother in law deserve and would have done 1000% better overseas (where I live). One of my female cousins is a dike (although she is great an I love her as a cousin), the other three are also great but basically nasty skanks. American women suck in every way. Sure, before leaving the US I had been with A FEW nice ones, but you can go years there between those streaks of luck. In many places in Europe and S America you are simply inundated by beautiful, sexy, educated, sweet, friendly babes 24/7. I just nailed one that I met in my internet cafe last week. It wasnt even intentional. That never happened to me in the USA.
BTW, last night I was in a pool hall and there was an American girl playing 2 tables away. She stuck out like a sore thumb due to her LOUD OBNOXIUOS VOICE, repulsive masculine appearance, attitute, clothes, gestures, gait, etc...She also was wearing those stupid thick nerd bumblebee glasses that about 80% of American women that come down here seem to wear. What is the deal with that, do they all wear those now in the USA. One thing that amazes me is that you would think that something would wear off on these US biatches when they spend time in Europe/SA all day with real women running around. But they look/act even worse! Maybe just a defense mechanism or just oblivion.
M
Young women are made pretty so young guys will bang them so the species will carry on into the void. Nature has programmed it so that most human couples grow old together, much like swans who are higher up the ladder of being than we are. There are exceptions to this general rule. Some guys, Civ2000 and Domino being two, like to bang younger women. Nature does not mind as long as most people do not follow suit.
American women know if they give away their pussy too early, they will pay big time for it. They are caught in a rapidly changing society and must protect themselves. Lots of men feel threatened by them but not by some 2 bit disposable Third World skank
When I hung around Mexico with the super rich, I used to often share a car with this young Mexican dude who used to flit up to San Diego where he would bang rich white chicks. He thought it amazing that they never even asked him his name. I didn't as I was more interesed in banging his maid.
I find white women are still attracted to me for the same reasons they have always been attracted to me. Like Frank Sinatra, as I get older, I simply modulate the notes I sing and I leave the high notes to the young guys who are all dick and no brains.
You must also remember women, much more than men, are social creatures. They like to hang around together, chat, shop, ***** etc. Look at Sex and the City type cluck cluck all together stuff. Men are more the loner type. What does this mean? It means if you are banging a younger chick, all her friends are telling her you are an old creep and thye should bail out/whack you/go on Jerry Springer/fuck Domino instead. This even happens to
John T Domino
I'm just a regular average guy. I certainly don't look like Denzel Washington and I don't have a million dollars in the bank(screw banks by the way) but I have a great personality. So naturally, no American women will acknowledge me.
I travel once in a while, I have been with hot women, hotter than I could have imagined being involved with. Their reasoning, it's simple. They liked me because I'm trustworthy, respectful and have a great sense of humor. American women don't value those things. Unless it comes in an 80,000 dollar car. Then they have all the interest in the world.
More power to you and its your opinion and right to voice it. I couldnt disagree with you more. Sure, there are some good ones, but who cares? We are talking in vast generalities here and in general American women are nothing like their cousins from many, many other countries. Any guy who thinks the average American women is equal to, or superior, to the other ladies of the world is a possible pussy, and idiot, or has simply given up and is living with the fact that he doesnt want, or cant get for whatever reason, anything better. More power to you again. Its your life. You can have all the American bitches and the rest of us will go and take the real women who know the real meaning of the word relationship.
American men have been pussified beyond belief, beaten down by a society that doesnt want them to behave like men, and convinces them that "sex in the city sluts" are about the best there is out there for them. You can have them. Be my guest.
As for me and most of my brethren here, we know the real truth of the American society, women in general here, and the complete foolishness to believe that these creatures calling themselves women are remotely tied to any of their past ancestors in this country.
I, for one, am amazed at the men of seattle. They carry their male "purses" around, take orders from their girlfriends, lose their friends on orders from the wives and girlfriends and have their balls in her purse. If you ever want to see the absolute epitome of what has happened to the american male one need only walk around Seattle and see the pussified idiots calling themselves men.
I dont know how to explain it better, you have to see if for yourself to believe it. The only place left in this country where men still are men is the deep south, and that is quickly evaporating as even they are feeling the heat of being a "sensitive, sweet guy." Fuck that shit. You can have it.
You may think these dikes in womens clothing are into you, but you are a fool. They are only into themselves. They fool you with their hot young looks and then go for the kill. Any man is a fool to get married to an American snobby *****. They are all bitches in my book, not worthy of my cock or my time.
No, I have not been burned. I have personally dumped all American sluts that I have dated because I am a realist and learned their game early on. I am the "asshole" that American women love, but could care less about. I pride myself on that. I used to be a nice guy with women and I ended up jacking off to Swank Magazine every night. When I turned ugly, nasty, and bad I got balled whenever I wanted. Two plus two is four baby. I can add. I know what works here and I dont like it. I am sick of it. I can be myself in other countries and not put on the facade of being an asshole and I love it.
My two cents. Take it or leave. Could care less. Thats my attitude in country, only way to get laid by hot ass. In peru, colombia, japan, I can be Mr. Nice and get all the pussy I can handle and actually have feelings. What an idea!!!!
Later boys.
Milkster the enlightened
Hey Mikster,
I must say that you have truly summed it up. You are very real and you actualy hit the nail on the head multiple times.
I wish more guys had the balls to see it all for what it is. In fact, what you've said is lilke gospel, and I will review your words twice a day in the morning and in the night before I go to sleep.
Peace
When referring to American Women, I think this term also applies to those who have become "Americanized" because in essence, they're the same as those who are "natives". I say this seeing how all women (or approx. 98%) in the U.S. share the same virtues and values regardless of race, culture and creed. In this aspect there are no barriers or differences (I wish the same was true in the workplace). It's really amazing and alarming. The expectations from a Latina, Asian or European in the U.S. are the same as those of any American woman. Back in their homelands, things are different; for the most part they're not like that, but once they become "Americanized" - it all goes to waste. One rather alarming factor I noticed was how much of this "Americanization" has come into play in other countries as well. I'm not saying that it is equivalent (thank God for that) but I have noticed it more than before when I've visited South America and Mexico. Especially the big border towns of Mexico on the north where they are so close to the U.S. and by proximity would seem to have gotten "infected". This is something I would like to hear more about in this site because even though it is not as bad, similar attitudes do also exist elsewhere. Just my two cents worth!!!
Civ 2000,
When I was 20 yo living in the USA I wasnt banging hookers either, you know why? Because I had no money. If you were getting fresh meat 24/7 in college in the USA, you werent the only one but I would say pertain to a segment of less than 10% of guys. Most of whom had the only kind of power you could have at that age (non-monetary) like being on the all-american football team. College is only 10 years ago for me. What are you talking about.
Is rhyming slang for a Yank. If you think 1st world babes are waiting for American men to fuck them, jump in a time capsule. This is 2005, not 1945. England has been off rationing for over 50 years, Germany surrendered 60 years ago, the Korean war is also over (an armistice was declared oh around 1954 or so) and all that influences attitutes. Today, you will only be seen as a check waving liberator by the wretched of the earth, by those who are dirt poor. In 1st world Japan, for example, only a very small minority of women are interested in the white trash of Asia; they are the small minority who want out of Japan's social straight jacket. Girls just wanna have fun and if you are a fun living, free psending wooden plank, your dick will get a yank.
If anyone thinks some upper class Latina will fuck them or even look at them with anything but contempt, they know nothing about society south of the Rio Grande, imho. So, by all means ***** all you like about American women. But just remember: another American, or two, is banging each and every one of them. If you are not and if they are burning you, to paraphrase the great monger, JFK, ask not what their **** can do for you but what you can do for their ****. Develop some more strings to your bow, take a few leaves out of my book and you too will be a happy, AW loving monger.
Peace and pussy to all.
"Lonely women make good lovers".
[QUOTE=Domino]Young women are made pretty so young guys will bang them so the species will carry on into the void. Nature has programmed it so that most human couples grow old together, much like swans who are higher up the ladder of being than we are. [/QUOTE]
You've posted a bunch of debateable things here. I'll just comment on this one. Growing old together is a fairly recent phenomenon - maybe 200 years at the most. Prior to that it was lucky if either partner lived past 40. That leaves about 199,000 years of "nature's programming" exactly the opposite of your assertion. Whatever point you're trying to make, please keep your pseudo-biological facts accurate.
Global life expectancy is, according to the CIA Factbook, Weighted Average 67.47 years [url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/hea_lif_exp_at_bir_tot_pop&int=-1[/url]
This, of course, does not break down for sex. In Mozambique, it is 31.3, something similar to what it may have been in Europe and White America some 200 years ago. One would also have to stabilize the variance over time and take out extraneous variables such as wars, famines and diseases past and present. Then, whilst noting that marriage itself and the nuclear family are both relatively recent byproducts of economic advance, one could still comfortably assert that most humans, like swans, are pre programmed to form one relationship with a member of the opposite sex and grow old with that person, whilst nothing that the definition of age, like Bill Clinton's definition of sex is rather mercurial and changes with the ages (which is why we would have to stablize the variance). Priests, mongers and others are exceptions to this general rule of society.
The mongers here, though they are an eclectic bunch, are not representative of society at large. For example, the sexual revolution of the 1970s was not as widespread as we were held to believe. Many did not partake in it.
Now that that is clear: let us hear it for American women and try to go at least a day without bitching the same hoary bs about them.
Bottom line: Some opinions here need to be challenged so that those who have been burned by American or other women may pick themselves up and get on with life. If you want to go to a third world country and buy love, by all means do. But don't expect Oprah Winfrey to hold you up as a role model.
[QUOTE=Domino]whilst nothing that the definition of age, like Bill Clinton's definition of sex is rather mercurial and changes with the ages [/QUOTE]
The definition of age changes with the ages? Is that like saying that it depends on what the meaning of "is" is?
Now you've moved on to complete nonsense. The only thing you've said that is pertinent, and may be true, is that you can assert anything you want. That doesn't make it so.
The bottom line is that you insist humans are "pre-programmed" to grow old with one partner. That is not only unsupported, it is contrary to the facts. For almost all of human history, it was lucky if the parents were alive long enough to get one set of kids out the door. Until the industrial revolution people simply didn't grow old in any sense of the word. Since as a species we didn't live long enough to get old, we aren't pre-programmed for any kind of old age. Neither are we programmed for monogamy, or to become swans, or any other mystical claptrap you choose to make up. Quoting off-point statistics from the CIA doesn't change that.
As for American women and Oprah, I expect her to continue to tell them that they remain oppressed, and that their oppressors are American men. The women in the audience will all nod for the camera, and they, along with all the ladies in TV land will once again be validated in their permanent resentment towards American men. All except the ones that you encounter of course.
Hardbarg: Global life table are relevant as life expectancy and the definition of old is different in different parts of the world and for different classes, just as they always have been. 31.3 is the expected life expectancy in Mozambique but it is considered young on this board. The norm for humans, as for swans is monogamy.
Your last paragraph about Oprah is well written and has a witty barb against me. However, please pause and consider the cynical attitude it displays towards American women. My bottom line is continually droning on in this thread about how awful American women are helps nobody, least of all those who may have suffered at their hands.
I do not think that anyone wakes up in the morning and decides to log into the WSG Forum to bash American women just for the hell of it. I'm sure most guys would rather be off somewhere engaged in sordid acts of debauchery.
American women are not bad in all respects. I have several who I would consider to good friends and decent people in general. They can be generous and even dependable up to a point. However, this only applies if your relationship is strictly platonic. The moment that you stick your dick into them things will change quickly and the entitlement mentality will come into force. These otherwise nice women would begin to think that you owe them big time because they let you stick your cock in their precious hole. A relationship where each person took care of their share of the tab suddenly becomes one where you are expected to foot the entire bill. Most American women regard pussy as a commodity and if you indulge in it you are expected to pay a high price. Seeing pussy as a commodity is not uniquely American but you have to admit that the women here place an outrageous value on their goods while trying to cheat you out of a fair deal. They even go so far as to pretend that they don't expect any returns for their services rendered. The really audacious ones will attempt to make you pre-pay without any intention of completing the transaction. What truly amazes me though is that my female friends think that this behavior is totally normal and acceptable. Yet still, they would never attempt to steal from a store or swindle someone out of money under other circumstances. Of course, this might just be due to the fact that the law would penalize them for such behavior, but there is no pussy police as it were when it comes to sex so they can get away with it.
We twenty-something guys in America can often get nice young tight "teaser pussy". It's called teaser pussy because the first piece is free and usually very good. The goal here is to get you hooked so that you come back for repeat helpings. If you go back for more you'll find out that the poor girl has a ton of credit card debt, can't make her rent or car payment that month, or that she ran up her cell phone bill and it's about to be cut off. The key to dealing with this is to take the teaser but avoid signing up for the service. This can be good for occasional relief but since it is always a one time deal you can forget having a relationship.
I just want to say one more thing to the older guys on here. Don't think that the young girls target only older guys for their money because they do the same thing with young handsome guys with rock hard bodies. I think that the young guys might fare better with girls looking for marriage along with the cash but that's about it.
Domino, sorry pal, but you dont know what the fuck your talking about. You say that high class women south of the Rio Grande wont even look at us gringos, or if they do, look with contempt. I have never heard such bullshit in all my life. Thats all I go for when I go after "regular" girls in Peru. I was engaged to an upper class Peruvian who was white as rice and her family lived in a compound. She was nuts for me. The high class girls hate the machista attitude as much as the lower class girls do. It was so easy for me to pick up hot, white, well off chicks in Peru its laughable. Did the same thing in Cali Colombia. In Peru, its easy to find them. Go to the most exclusive clubs, high end restaurants, the mall, and they are all over the place. I had another girlfriend in Lima who was so hot I could cum just watching her undress. Upper class family, she was chief of an entire office for Nextel and her father was a high ranking government official who had other companies on the side.
It was SO fucking easy I still cant believe that you said that. I dont know what your problem is, but apparently you too, have become a pussified american male who doesnt know it yet. Go out with the Oprah clones brother, you can have them.
As for me, I will keep banging hot, white, upper class Peruvians while mongering the day away.
Enjoy your lovely, misjudged American she males.
Later
Milkster
A few months ago, I was sitting in an airport lobby, saw two beautiful Russian twins, they were gorgeous, and they were immediately making passes at me. So I went up to them and talked someone into switching seats, got to sit next to them on the flight, and I have to defend American women is just futile, when so many better looking and better behaving women are found elsewhere.
mikster: i am not sure why you are making smart assed remarks about me and american shemales; maybe it is some way of having a shot at american females and me, the messenger. the whole key with getting on with women is bringing something they want to the party. that something is not money. women will always opt for freedom (give me liberty or death) if given half a chance.
i know fat, balding, ugly guys in their 50s and 60s who have young american women lining up for the privilege of being banged by them. why? because they bring romance and music into their lives; they sing their way into their panties. look at bill clinton, mr smoothie; he would have no trouble sweet talking his way into many girls' panties even if he never rose to political prominence. he is a charmer and, more importantly, he plays the sax.
interesting you mention peru where a small group of white crypto fascists have bled the country since pizarro and spain's other thugs raped it centuries ago. forgive me if i don't fully believe you. check out the japan-nampa board. the all conquering white american guys there can't even get a fucking date, because they don't know how to get a date in japan, the usa or anywhere else. did thye ever go to high school?
if these peruvians/russians are the diamonds you say they are, they would be very much americanized and would be into shopping malls etc and would know ameircans tend to have more $$ than sugar cane farmers down the road.
sure, many guys here have been hit hard by american/british/australian women. shit happns, learn by your mistakes, stop bitching, get on with your life and look at the sunny side of things.
Domino,
I, for one, actually appreciate your comments as of late. You remind us that before we start going too far in ripping on American "b_tches" we should take a hard look at ourselves. It helps give a balanced viewpoint on this particular subject.
[b]HOWEVER...[/b]
Many of those same viewpoints probably come from guys who speak from experience. Speaking only for myself, I have personally witnessed most of the feminine shortcomings mentioned here. My theory is that some people don't see those shortcomings because, let's face it, not everyone has had the opportunity to travel abroad and see the differences; if you've been raised on nothing but beans and rice then it's hard to believe someone who tells you of the Porterhouse steak they just had last night.
In addition, a lot of those differences exist because of different cultures. If a Latina, for example, is used to nothing but macho jerks in her dating pool, then imagine what a refreshing breath of fresh air a polite foriegner can be? Likewise, if a Westerner sees mostly gullible, pussified men in her dating scene then I imagine a more "manly" (not necessarily macho, but manly) male can be an intriguing prospect for her (as an example, the first time I ate dinner at my Mexican ex-girlfriends' house she was floored when I helped wash the dishes - go figure?).
I guess what I'm trying to say is this: (1) I agree this is more than a matter of "all Western women are fat, emasculating b_tches"; but (2) there is a distinct reason why soooo many of the guys posting here are saying basically the same things.
And I agree with you. In Australia, guys bomb the family courts: you get serious time in jail for stunts like that. I know guys there holding down 3 and 4 jobs to pay their alimony; totally stressed out and they love a good bar room brawl just to relieve the stress. I know one lady deliberately got pregnant by a very nice guy because she knew he would fork up for her and baby. I have no complaints with any of that and it is not confined to the USA.
My complaint is: this thread in particular sounds like an Oprah Winfrey for males show. A long long time ago, when I had free afternoon time, I would watch some Oprah or Jerry Springer or whatever, just the same way I drift in here. Two or three episodes were more than enough. It is the same with constantly bitching about American women. It takes two to tango.
Here in Japan, women pick me up for a bit of rough. I have actually been picked up on the street and paid to butt fuck a lady. Others pick me up because I am upper class. Others pick me up because of my artistic talents. Whatever floats their boat.
There is nothing new in any of this. Sailors have always scored well becauce they spend when they hit town and they are exotic. They give the illusion of a dream. Look at Thailand. When Operation Cobra hits town and the US Marines, Navy - and Coastguard :) - swarm ashore, the women come out of the woodwork to fuck them. Why? Because the Americans are the dream prize. And women, all women, every single woman in the world, love a dream. Your job is to be that dream. And the one card not to play is the money card.
CBGB,
Yes, I would have to agree with your last paragraph 100%; I've definitely found the action much easier while travelling abroad. In fact, your entire post only illustrates my point about cultural differences being a key factor. Some speak of these differences as if they were genetic, but if that were true then these women wouldn't change when relocating to the States.
Domino,
You weren't in the Coast Guard by chance, were you? I'm former Navy myself (and I've had the opportunity to swim ashore in Thailand a few times BTW ;) )
Domino, didnt really mean to attack you, sorry. The comments you made about upper class latin women was so foreign to me that it actually did make me laugh. I have never had the experience you mention. Those girls dont have to go for me, they usually stay in their own social circles and marry other well off, upper class latino men. They dont need me at all and had full knowledge that I was not rich because thats the first thing I tell women south of the border. I make no bones about it because I dont have time to waste. They still go out with me, fall in love from time to time and want me to live in their country rather then vice versa. I am no stud or Don Juan, I just dont care and I put the moves on anyone who makes me hot. As for them being fascists, I havent run across that too much but thats another topic for another day. This isnt only confined to Lima, I had the same experiences in Cali and Bogota. I simple think your wrong so we can agree to disagree.
I also disagree that most, or all, of imported third world women change and become americanized when they show up here. We will have to disagree with that one too.
As for Japan, I seriously dont know what any decent guys problem is in picking up women there. I was in Tokyo and had no problems whatsoever. I have posted in the past my method of "importing" japanese women to come here to visit me. They hop on planes and stay in my apartment for a week or so and then leave. Their not *****s, not bad girls, and have regular jobs and lives. Half of them have turned out to be smoking hot upon arrival. Next one due in May. I have no reason to bullshit you on any of this, I am anonomyous and will receive no accolades for my exploits. Its just a simple contribution to the board. I like Japanese women alot. I find them much much softer, sweeter, and more sensual then American women.
I never said ALL American women were bad. I distinctly remember saying I am talking in vast generalities and that is because in general its true. I am not going to search out for the one diamond in a sea of shit. Not when I can go elsewhere, or have them come here so easily and readily available. I have met 6 women from down south with USA Tourist Visas (an obvious sign they are well off) who have payed their own way here just to stay with me and see if there is a future between us. I usually get the itch for them to leave because I believe that I am simply not the marrying type. I know my weaknesses and my biggest one is strange pussy and until I either master it, or grow up, or whatever I will probably remain single. Giving in to my base desires is too easy and too much fun. hehehe
If it seems to bother so much I will cease bashing American women. You want them, their all yours. Good luck.
Later
Milkster
Maybe not all third-world women change or become Americanized when they show up here, but they certainly catch-on very quickly to the standards and expectations enforced and put forth. Practices that have been commonly accepted and interwoven into American society (read she-males and pussified/chump males).
Personally, I agree with the equal rights, opportunities and treatment of both sexes. What I don't agree with is when this is used, often times, to take advantage - and be protected while doing so - by the crazy and insane divorce laws that exist in this country.
Experiences certainly vary here, and what some are able to do successfully, others have failed or are just not able to. My hat off to those who have managed to pull off their stunts with these ladies; seriously, and my sombrero off especially to those who have done/ do so with American women. By all means.
Is [b][u]THIS[/b][/u] what it takes to get with American females?!?!
[quote]he hit me so what?
Reply to: [email]anon-66746441@**********.org[/email]
Date: 2005-04-03, 5:12PM EDT
i dont CARE what my friends and family say! im in LOVE!!!! my boyfriend hit me the other night and gave me a black eye but it was MY FAULT! Why cant people understnd that? he loves me if he didn't then he wouldn't care when I messup. SO QUIT TELLING ME I SHOULD LEAVE HIM BECAUSE IM NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!
[u](quoted from **********.org, "rants and raves" section)[/u]
[/quote]
Call me crazy if you want, but in my experience logical people do not think like this. Two decades of "men should be more sensitive" and [u]this[/u] is what we get.
And people wonder why guys on in this forum keep complaining.
There are plenty of women who will stay in their home countries, especially with the news and media in a lot of countries, a lot of people know that life in America is no fairy tale. I think in more developed societies(Europe, Australia, Japan, etc.) there is less incentive for them to pick up their bags and leave. Considering the events of the past few years and the huge conservative shift in US politics and culture, you might see more people trying to get a taste of life in other places. Even in less developed places like Brazil, women have no problems finding a good local guy.
I do believe that if you bring a woman back home, expect that she will change, it also depends upon her ability to assimilate into American society. For this reason women from minority groups tend to change less than those who can fit in with the majority.
when in rome do as the romans do. that is what the last few posts on foreign women coming to the u.s. brings to mind. like cyberdas mentioned some men are fortunate to have things work out for them. it might be due to having carefully selected an honest woman with a belief in retaining her culture, or due to pure luck. no one knows for sure. it can go either way even if you stack the odds in your favor. i guess it depends on whether one thinks the prize to be won is worth the risk of a crushing devastating defeat.
i have seen women from equality conscious countries like sweden where women pay their share of the bill on dates rapidly adapt the american model of having the man pay for everything. the story of women from third world countries filing for divorce after receiving their permanent visas is a common one. in fairness some guys bring this on themselves by not taking the time to screen out the visa hunters. average joe suddenly finds himself the object of the amorous attentions of a perfect 10 and throws caution to the wind. i have seen this too many times. in fact, i had to mediate for one such couple a few weeks ago.
however, american women usually take it upon themselves to show "poor ignorant" immigrant women how things are done in america. they let them know that a petite exotic beauty does not have to cook, clean or wash for her mere middle class husband and that she should in fact be ruling the roost. she is educated on the favorable terms of divorce and child support, sometimes these incentives prove to be too much to resist for a woman who spent all of her life in poverty.
as a young man i sometimes find myself here in the u.s. yearning to awake in the arms of an olive-skinned, dark-eyed, raven-haired beauty whose company i share when abroad. yet still, i sleep alone in the u.s. because it wouldn't take much to tor**** my battle damaged finances and send them to the ocean floor permanently. i literally can't afford the risk of a marital relationship in the u.s. i am thankful that in my twenties i was finally able to temper the impetuous nature of my cock with wisdom. i hope to save enough money over the years to expatriate and start a business. if that is not possible and i must bring a woman into the wild west then at least i'll have a secret stash in an off-shore haven as an insurance policy.
wsg provides more than just information on mongering. it lets guys know that they're not out there alone in the quest for a relationship with women that doesn't involve financial ruin. thanks to all for sharing their often hard earned experience.
I honestly believe that if you bring a good foreign woman back to the US, she will change. She will realize how much more she is worth in the US than back home, where there are many women who can easily replace her. Bring a beautiful and exotic woman back home and she will be stared and drooled at like a Lamborghini, and like a Lamborghini, she will get real expensive. If you keep her in the lot, you won't have to deal with maintenance costs, in other words stay with her in her home country. I think self-employed people and business owners tend to have the best chances of moving abroad than anyone else in this respect. A lot of countries welcome Americans to open up businesses in their countries, I have seen this all over, in Europe, in Asia, in SA, all over.
chocha monger - it looks like we're in similar boats, my friend. i more than halfway through my twenties, thanking god that i didn't fall victim to the siren call of some young lovely, only to experience first the dull pain of marriage and second the sharp pain of divorce. came close, though.
my game plan now is to attempt to position myself to profit from this new emerging global economic structure. we are in for an amazing fucking ride, believe me. i've been reading thomas friedman's newest book, "the world is flat." a good read, if only to get an idea of the groundwork and underpinnings of this new economic era. friedman's observations are astute, but i believe some of his conclusions are way off base. he does say that the next ten years will be "creative destruction on steriods," which i think is accurate.
in my estimation, the social incentives for living in the us have long been fading. trying to build a meaningful relationship with a female in america is next to impossible, unless you are willing to sumbit to a lifetime of financial servitude to her. fuck that. i'm not that stupid.
i've seen here posted by many different mongers something to the effect of: make your money in the us, and then go abroad to spend it with friendly, happy women. good advice.
however, if friedman is to be believed, the ecomonic incentives to living in the us are also fading as well, with more speed than we would like to believe. in the next ten years, disruptive technologies are going to put downward pressure on the us labor market like never before in history.
so i realized, that without these social or economic benefits to living here, why the fuck should i stay? to bear witness to the slow, inexorable decline of this once great nation? no, thanks, i'd rather be boning some little hottie in a country somewhere not polluted by the socially corrosive forces of feminism. i might even want to get married and have a family someday. but, sadly, not here in the us.
so, that's it. i'm making my long term plans for escape. this is for real. i would appreciate any comments, both positive and negative. if you think this is the stupidest shit you've ever heard of, please tell me.
p.s. cbgb - in your experience, can you tell me what kinds of businesses you've seen americans run successfully in sa and asia?
Just come to India once and see the attitude changing fast enough, to see the trend in globalization, if you thought american women are worst, you might get her a partner here in india, unlike in america, in india, women are being paid 3 times more than men salery on average, result, more and more women, are single in 30's, unless ofcourse they have it all beauty and brains.
The trend is fast catching up, Atleast here was a saying american women are givers, well, it never was in india, indian women will always be a "TAKER".
Folks,
Its greener always on the other side, who wants to get on with a single girl anyway, its global economy, global adventure, so get with the trend :)
cbgb, i must agree with your analogy between hot imported foreign women and the lamborghini. i have seen the drool factor in effect and it is certainly not to be under-estimated. the incessant stares from guys and the and the lectures from local women on how much better she could be doing are sure to send an exotic beauty's ego on a rampage.
also, i must mention something that i saw today. this guy that i met latin america imported a woman who already had a voracious appetite for junk food. however, while she was in her home country junk food was not widely available and it was quite expensive so she wasn't able to consume it in enough quantities to turn into a lactating sow. he was warned numerous times not to take this chick back to the u.s. since she was obviously very hungry for a taste of the american lifestyle. instead of taking heed he accused everyone of being jealous, he hung out in the shop where she worked to ward of any would be suitors. things finally came to a head one day when he almost traded blows with a customer. the american shop owner promptly fired the girl after that. imagine all of this over what was an average girl when compared to her much more beautiful peers. anyway, the dumb ass married her and brought her over. when i saw them i didn't recognize her at first because the poor fool's lamborghini has now turned into a ryder truck. i couldn't help smiling to myself and wondering if he still gets into fights over her.
long stroker, i think that you're headed in the right general direction. i haven't done any in depth analysis of global economic trends but i think that it is safe to say that the old model of finding an employer and committing yourself to 20 or 30 years of serfdom in return for a pension is well on the way out the door. employers can no longer be counted on to keep their part of the bargain. no one knows what the u.s. dollar will be worth in the future, therefore it would be prudent to have a means of generating income in the country where you establish your residence. serfdom in the u.s. should probably be no more than a means of amassing some capital to fund your relocation. if you have no obligations to remain in the u.s. then your youthful viagra-free years would definitely be better spent abroad indulging in beautiful women and seeking wealth.
I find that these days, there are few social incentives to stay in America, thats why I have not returned and have no plans to return in the future. American women are HORRIBLE. Some people might think that they are not so bad but when you get to meet some women outside of the USA, you will find textbook examples of femininity, class and elegance that still exist in the 21st century. The few high quality foreign women who make it to the shores of the US often get taken by superrich Alpha types, which means regular guys have no chance whatsoever of meeting their dream woman in the US. Combined with recent politics making travel difficult, like the fall of the US Dollar relative to other foreign currencies, is making travel very expensive. I remember my first trip to Eastern Europe, I was traveling around Germany, Hungary, Latvia, the Czech Republic, and Poland. I was absolutely stunned by the sheer number of beautiful, elegant, and friendly women that I ran into, when I went back to the States I couldn't help but notice how a lot of American women I found attractive suddenly seemed so plain to me.
Occasionally I run into some fuckwit lady that thinks because I'm American I will take her back to the USA to my penthouse home and where the streets are made of gold and everyone lives in mansion and drives some fancy car and thinks life there is a bundle of roses. There are some delusional retards like this that you will run into. Better to keep them where they are then to bring them back and see you in a different light.
hi all! i just got back from the philippines and i may need an entire day in confession for the things (and women) i've done.
to touch on a couple of recent posts, (and not criticizing anyone at all) i have quite a few american women friends, but there is no way in hell i'm gonna chance it by trying to start a relationship with one unless she makes the move first. i've had my heart ripped from my chest too many times (and watched it beating as it was ripped from my chest cavity) to be a fool again. i'll be friends with them and party with them, but as far as any romantic situations may go, i turn into a robot. hell, i still have american female friends from 15-25 years ago that i'm still close to. it may seem i love to bash american women for the sheer joy of it, but that's not true. i just still get angry (more at myself nowadays) for falling for the chicanery that american women will employ simply to boost their ego.
anyway, while in the philippines, i noticed thet stark difference between the american women i saw (homely and fat, not really obese, but fat) and the native women. in general, it was like watching utter rejects from american idol trying to fit in with professional beauties. i also noticed the typical monger; in his 40's extremely pale skin (not poking fun at my bretheren without color), sandals with socks (i swear i saw this!) and loud hawaiin shirts. hey, if that floats their boats, so be it, but what really made me sit up and take notice is that the chicks these guys were with seemed to be emotionless pros. for instance, i noticed one guy who had his hand in the small of a filipina's back and she seemed to try to be at least an inch ahead of that hand, as if it repulsed her. i felt sorry for the guy because he seemed (to me at least) to want some emotional attachment to her. that example was just one of several (and similar) that i observed. to the guy to said that (paraphrasing) 1st worlders are economic liberators that foreign women clamor for, you hit the nail on the head. i was never under the illusion that the relative "exotic factor" or economics doesn't play a part in nailing a foreign honey, but so what? if i can play on that advantage, so be it!
to loosely quote a recent post (sorry i can't find it, much less look for it again, 'cos i'm tired as hell right now and i wanna get some sleep) i need ta take a few pages outta clinton's book and be a silver tongued smoothie. yes, peeps, i'm admitting to the world my shortcomings and that i gotta get my act together a little more.
ciao, fellas!
Sinanju master, CBGB Connisur:
Agreed that american women are inmatch, But one thing I fail to get being in a third world country is, how the porn industry gets regular supply of teen and amatuer beauties.
It amazes me the kind of beauty they churn out and all gets fuc**d right in front of the camera, the kind of women I dream about whole day and night.
It hardly seem unlikely the other way as is mentioned in this forum going by the attitude of the porn cuties, the american women seem to be true "GIVER's ".
Whts wroung, Am I missing something. Please Help! I'm really confused in this one!
[quote]But one thing I fail to get being in a third world country is, how the porn industry gets regular supply of teen and amatuer beauties.[/quote]This one, even I can answer.
[b]MONEY[/b]
For $2500, for a couple of hours work, you too can have any "dream" woman you want.
I am not trying to be flip about this. These porn actress "dream girls" are very well compensated for their time. It is just that simple.
Very top-drawer call girls also get such rates (not from me!) but they provide an important commodity... discretion.
Cheers,
Sporadic
BL5, Sporadic cut right to the chase and laid out the answer for you; MONEY.
I had three teenage Philippine honeys that would turn the head of ANY guy whose dick gets hard. I can say with confidence that two of them could be in front of a porn king's camera on their way to amateur stardom.
When I go to Hell, Satan is gonna say: "Whooooooooooooa! Welcome, Sinanju Master, you're a minor celebrity down here! You can go STRAIGHT to the FRONT OF THE LINE! Your suite is in between Bill Clinton's and Tommy Lee's!"
Born Loser,
I was going to answer your post, but Sporadic and Sinanju took the very words from my mouth. There is no level of depravity too low for a woman when the money's right.
If this were not the truth then half the prostitutes in the world wouldn't even be prostitutes to begin with.
I think pornography is a tool of psychological warfare against men in America, other than topless bars its the only legal sexual outlet for men in America. Most pornography is use to tease the fewer into seeing what he will never experience in real life. In countries that have legal prostitution, just about every country in Europe, Canada, and Australia, has legal outlets to visit prostitutes, however pornography is not as prevalent as it is in the USA. Why spend money on crappy porno movies when you can have the real experience with a real woman? Pornography has no use to me whatsover, when I get real sex with real women, porno movies and magazines have no use to me whatsoever.
CBGB, I don't know if pornography has NO USE WHATSOEVER. Were it not for pornography (or conversations with my friends when I was growing up) I probably would have believed that sex is some (literally) magical event that happens when your eyes are closed while partially or fully clothed. I wouldn't have developed my taste (and appreciation) for certain types of women's bodies. I wouldn't have discovered the fact that women's bodies are a minefield of erogenous zones and so on. Pornography has its uses, but it goes only so far. It will NEVER replace the experience of running your lips over a woman's warm soft flesh while her breathing becomes shallower, or experiencing the moment of being inside her. It has its uses but makes for a poor substitute for the real thing.
Pornography is nothing more than a psychological weapon, in a society like the US where sexual images are present all over the media but prostitution and other sexual outlets are illegal, this is the most obvious proof. I have visited other countries where sexual services for fees are legal and the level of pornographic content in the media is considerably lower. In countries like England and Germany, you can walk into a local brothel, screw a gorgeous woman for a small sum of money, and be on your way. Yet in the US, this is not okay, but its okay to tease men with sexual images on TV and printed media, its completely contradictory.
Born Loser 5,
Definately money is a primary motivator for girls to get into the porn biz like other posters have mentioned, but there are other factors. Many women in adult entertainment were molested as children. Daddy diddled with their doodle when they were young and now they want the world to see how fucked up they are. Engaging in the sexual act (mirroring the episodes of child abuse) over and over on film becomes a kind of coping mechanism for the victim, a cathartic release and the only way to make sense of the circumstances they find themselves in.
It's kind of funny. I to some degree lost my taste for porn after a trip to Prague. It's like "I don't need to watch this crap, as the memories bouncing around my head are far superior to most of what I am seeing".
"Bart"
IMHO you are painting with pretty broad strokes there LS.
I have no doubt that there are victims of child abuse in the porn/stripper industry, but I would suggest there are also victims in every other profession or trade as well.
I would look for a new textbook.
Cheers,
Sporadic
I was thinking about it and I've never once looked at porn in BsAs, there is simply no need. I do see a fair amount of porn in the sex shops but I've never seen anybody looking at it or bying it. I'm sure that some people there make use of it but I don't think many.
Why watch when you can be involved, unless it's watching two chicas lick each others pussy's before you fuck them. Or watch the one your fucking lick her amiga's. Live porn, now that's something I can get behind.
Oh yes before I forget. In keeping with this boards subject, American women suck.
If you have ample access to the real thing, then yes, porn has no use. My recent vacation in the Philippines emphasized that BIG TIME. The only place I really saw any porn whatsoever was on the streets being sold by flea market vendors in the form of DVD's.
Perhaps my generalization was a bit too sweeping - certainly not all women who are in the adult entertainment industry were victims of child abuse. But I would suggest that the percentage working in porn is higher than any other profession one could name.
By the way, calling me Broad Stroker, that was pretty clever. You had me chuckling over my afternoon tea today!
What a pile of horseshit in that last post. "Severely Sexually Abused" = some guy put his hand on my ass. "Multiple Personality Disorder" = confused about what I want to be if I ever grow up. "Major Depressive Episode" = waah waah waah snivel I didn't get what I wanted.
One the other hand there are men who do sick things to young girls and the solution to this is castration, as the disorder cannot be effectively treated. However, the bleeding heart pussified limp dick whining pseudo-liberal jack offs compiling the statistics will always grossly overstate the prevalence to justify their own pathetic existences.
Long stroker,
The "study" you site sounds just a little sensational to me. It could very well be, I do not know, but I detect a bit of over-enthusiastic psycho-babble, as is typical in most advocacy groups. No harm in it I suppose.
Depending on who writes the questions you could probably say 90% of the world population suffers from "Major Depressive Episodes."
Please do not misunderstand, I am NOT defending child abuse (or any type of abuse for that matter.)
As to the matter of porn: Gentlemen, two things have revolutionised this industrty, the Internet and Viagra.
People no longer have to skulk around shady shops to get a thrill, they can just do a google image search in the privacy (har!) of their own home.
I do agree with your premise that when plenty of the real thing is on offer, photos and videos are pretty pale.
Taking my cue from Daddy Rulz, American women suck (or not very well!)
There. On topic.
Cheers,
Sporadic
let me just make a few points.
First, I'm not trying to be the morality police here. I like my porn and my ho's just as much as the next guy.
Second, and this is just speculation, but I think this problem is in some ways uniquely American, rooted in the Puritanical repression of our history. This ties in with what some of you guys were saying about the prevalence of porn overseas. It exists, but it isn't nearly as necessary. Sex is much more readily available over there.
I've been with plenty of prostitutes in Central and South America, and I didn't get the same victim vibe off them as I do with North American prostitutes. Latin American females generally have a much healthier view of sex, and most often engage in prostitution out of economic neccesity, not as an acting out from abuse.
Lastly, the only reason I posted all of this was in respone to Born Loser's question. I hope you're reading this, dude!
I was reading some more of that website, and it did begin to seem to me a bit like some "over-enthusiastic psycho-babble" as you said, so I removed the post due to lack of credibile sources. I'm not trying to start a war here, just trying to help Born Loser see a side of the issue he might not be aware of all the way over there in India.
BTW, this topic is apparently some real third-rail shit here so, as of right now, I am done discussing it.
Long Stroker,
It would appear that I am sending the wrong vibes here. I was not trashing what you posted, just trying to discuss it!
Indeed you make an important point[quote]but I think this problem is in some ways uniquely American, rooted in the Puritanical repression of our history.[/quote] I think you may have hit the nail on the head here. I have been living the expat life so long that I am seriously out of touch with the good old USA, but thinking back (way back!) to providers in the US, yes, I think you are correct.
The "repressed" attitude in the US certainly must play a part. I remember what an eye-opening experience my first overseas jaunt was during college days. The shock of understanding that there were alternative ways of looking at sexuality (and life) was a shock to a serious WASP.
Seriously, I was not trying to bully you. If I gave you that impression, please accept my apologies.
Cheers,
Sporadic
Dickhead:[quote] However, the bleeding heart pussified limp dick whining pseudo-liberal jack offs compiling the statistics will always grossly overstate the prevalence to justify their own pathetic existences.[/quote]
Mr. Dickhead Sir, I tip my hat in your general direction :)
I get seriously worked up when well meaning but uninformed (or over educated) jag-offs mislead the "public" with distorted or fabricated "results" designed to justify a victimised position.
[b]If I have to say this, this comment is not directed at the messenger... Long Stroker was only reporting info he found to support a position.[/b]
At all events, your description Mr. Dickhead is erudite, concise and IMHO correct.
Cheers,
Sporadic
Like a popular soft drink "Can't beat the real thing." Porn can't substitute for the real experience. When you go to a country where the real service is available, why bother with crappy porno movies and magazines? They become useless after that point.
I don't know what type of people end up in the porn business but some of them actually come from very "normal" backgrounds. I believe one of the biggest porn stars was once a special education teacher.
As far as the theme of this discussion topic: "AMERICAN WOMEN SUCK!!!". If you get disrespected by an American women don't take it personally and remember the motto, American women suck.
AMERICAN WOMEN SUCK
(not very well though)
Or maybe
AMERICAN WOMEN SUCK
(not very well though)
((except the fat ones))
Thanks sporadic
Only a few regions of the US truly have desirable and approachable women. Frankly I thought South Florida was pretty good but then again that region has a large Hispanic population, and Hispanic women are well known for both their beauty and approachability. Then again not everyone can have the opportunity to live in South Florida
Regions like the West Coast and Northeast are probably the worst and have the most stuck up women on the planet.
Still the best way to go is international, South America, Eastern Europe, and Asia are worlds above the USA. Western Europe is actually okay because its easy to find women from the former Eastern bloc in those parts.
Speaking of pornography, the general US media, has a major role in contributing to American society's idea of what is beautiful and who can be beautiful. Typically the mass media in the US sees mostly white American women as the most desirable in the world. When I first traveled abroad and saw the stunning array of beautiful women of many nationalities, races, and ethnic origins, I came back to realize that the US media is full of shit. Hollywood and the TV executives only show what they believe is beautiful, they also act as a propaganda machine to a degree, that's why certain nationalities of beautiful women are never represented in the US media because a beautiful woman of a certain nationality or ethnic origin can send an indirect political message. So Hollywood will portray certain ethnicities of women as being ugly. Note the Bennigans' commercial with Russian women being portrayed as fat and ugly in the 1980's, I have been to Moscow and during the summer months you will get a neck ache from turning your head every other second to look at the beautiful cyrillic babes. Few ethnic women are ever portrayed as an ideal woman. I have met real women in many countries around the world who can put the best looking American actresses to shame. When you look at the image of a hollywood celebrity you are looking at the image of what some stuffy exec thinks is beautiful.
We were discussing pornography. I have a "little friend" in the Czech Republic that I regularly amuse with stories of how stupid, obnoxious and annoying American girls are. Currently, as a further example of said annoying behavior, I am considering sending her some samples of the "Girls Gone Wild" videos. Amid bouncing titties, and borderline lesbianism (generally good things), there are some simply wonderful examples of Paris Hilton level obnoxious bi--ch behavior-which we of course excuse when the tits start seeing sunshine.
Just to make it short, American women are getting fatter and fatter and fatter and fatter and fatter and fatter!. I was at a bus stop in my hometown and I saw this woman sitting at a bus stop eating a $2.00 bag of onion rings munching away as if there wasn't a worry in the world.
Looking at her, I can see she was attractive at one time...but not anymore! She had rolls on top of rolls. The kicker was she saw me looking at her and gave me a ugly scowl as if she were saying: "What the fuck are you looking at?" or " Your not getting any!!"
If they keep this up, American women are doomed!! DOOMED I TELL YOU!
*Shakes Head*
Yanno, before I went on my trip to the Philippines, two of my female coworkers asked me if I was gonna bring back a Filipina (or at least hook up with one when I was there) to the US. They then made it a point to compare them to US females (being more "man-friendly" to put it in a nutshell). I joked around with them, but I could sense their barely-contained hostility at the thought of me forsaking an American woman for the comfort and pleasure of a Filipina. Take note of the fact that I did not even ONCE recite to them an item-by-item comparison between the two. If I DID, they would certainly have ganged up on me and slung unsupported accusations my way. This is how they (American Women) act when they perceive that their grip on power is slipping...
I met a Czech girl in Germany who was as hot as Paris Hilton but didn't have the Paris Hilton ego, her personality was a big difference compared to attractive blondes in North America.
Yea buddy I hear you. The vibe that I got off of the girls I met in Prague was like "I am just girl, nothing special". Infinitely preferable to the "Why Becky, didn't you know that the world revolves around my pussy?" of our lovely domestic models.
European women behave differently probably due to cultural reasons, disrespect and irreverance is largely seen as a negative in Europe, whereas in America its 'cool' to be a rebel. American women act the way they do as a way of rebeling against men. The major players and figures in the women's liberation movement are mostly American women.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]European women behave differently probably due to cultural reasons, disrespect and irreverance is largely seen as a negative in Europe, whereas in America its 'cool' to be a rebel. American women act the way they do as a way of rebeling against men. The major players and figures in the women's liberation movement are mostly American women.[/QUOTE]I live in Hong Kong spent some time in the US and mostly found the women there incorrigable and irritating! How can they be so successful in making the life of men so miserable! The truth is guys do need their egos flattered with a range of subtle behavioural traits by women and it makes life so much more pleasant! I see no evidence of American women being happier for their rebelliousness!
My query is who is to blame! I understand the US is a transient population but how come every corner of the continent seems to have this feature in women! Having lived in Asia I find the answer is not equality in the workplace etc , but quite simply in the hands of the media! In Asia women are not constantly fed BS on TV/magazines showing women stropping out and being bitches in public! Asian women wouldnt know how to behave in this way!
I caught a glimpse of a program called the gastineau twins/sisters on E channel yesterday! OH MY GOD! Who would want to spend a second in the company of that pair! Truely, hell on earth and i pity any guy that gets stuck with them........im sure i will get no rebuttle on that point!
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]When you look at the image of a hollywood celebrity you are looking at the image of what some stuffy exec thinks is beautiful.[/QUOTE]In addition, those same so-called beautiful actresses are not that great looking if you take away the makeup. I have ordinary women, without acting contracts who are far prettier. Not be gay bashing, however, how much of that image is fostered by those gay/bi/downlow execs in particular?
[QUOTE=Jaswells]I live in Hong Kong spent some time in the US and mostly found the women there incorrigable and irritating! How can they be so successful in making the life of men so miserable! The truth is guys do need their egos flattered with a range of subtle behavioural traits by women and it makes life so much more pleasant! I see no evidence of American women being happier for their rebelliousness!
My query is who is to blame! I understand the US is a transient population but how come every corner of the continent seems to have this feature in women! Having lived in Asia I find the answer is not equality in the workplace etc , but quite simply in the hands of the media! In Asia women are not constantly fed BS on TV/magazines showing women stropping out and being bitches in public! Asian women wouldnt know how to behave in this way!
I caught a glimpse of a program called the gastineau twins/sisters on E channel yesterday! OH MY GOD! Who would want to spend a second in the company of that pair! Truely, hell on earth and i pity any guy that gets stuck with them........im sure i will get no rebuttle on that point![/QUOTE]
That show was about Mark Gastineau's wife and daughter. Well American women are spoiled rotten, they are accustomed to getting whatever the hell they want, especially the rich ones. Then again, America's got one really important thing that isn't as present in other countries, Money!!! I have traveled to other countries and figured this out quickly, women elsewhere like money, but American women bring to a whole new level.
As far as comparing American women to foreign women, I think the reasons for the former's bitchiness is due to culture and society. Some of the most arrogant American women that I have seen have came from abroad, particularly Eastern Europeans, Middle Easterners, and South Americans, they integrate into American society quite well due to America's habit of absorbing and 'liberating' women who come from societies where they were human door mats. I actually met a woman who was an American citizen but was raised in Europe and noticed how different she was from her counterparts that lived in the US. The lesson is that if you bring that nice foreign woman back home, chances are that she will change, and it will mostly be the fault of society.
It's easy to meet women in other countries, I have met some perfect examples of beauty and class over the years, some real gems. However it seems the best way to keep a good relationship with them is to live with them in their society. This is so for a number of reasons:1) Long distance relationships are stressful especially in this day and age when anything can up between the two of you while you are seperated. ( A beautiful woman I met in Europe who I knew was the one for me was killed in a car crash. ) 2) Cultural, she might change if you bring her back. 3) The first reason, it will be expensive as hell to travel back and forth and with the vacation time that most Americans get travel will be difficult if not impossible.
Back on the subject of woman and food. This chick that sits next to me in class pull out a pack of pop tarts, laffy taffys, 20 oz bottle of coke, and buttered bagel and eats it all at 9 in the morning. At 10:30, 20 oz bottle of Pepsi, cheese doodles, and candy bar. She has a pretty face but is on the way to being chubby. I just watched this and couldn't wait till the next week to see what was for breakfast which turned out to be more of the same.
An Filipino-Chinese friend of mine is engaged to an American girl of Irish-German Descent.But She was born in the Philippines,Went to school until College in the Philippines and only goes back to visit family in the States.She is very sweet,giving,considerate and really knows to treat her man well.Actually she is a good friend of mine also.She is about 80% filipinized with her indupendent spirit and self reliance the only things American about her.I thought of her,when you guys were talking about bringing a foriegn girl to the states and how they develop bad attitudes.Apparently raise an American girl outside the US,and you get the opposite American girls with better attitudes.An american babe that takes better care of herself and with a more Filipina attitude towards men.A French friend of mine in Malaysia is married to American girl who grew up in thailand.Same thing,She had adopted many Thai attitudes towards Men.She speaks thai,Cooks Thai Food and does regular foot massages and back massages for my friend.Yes there are still diamonds out there in the sea of mediocore American women
An American woman who is raised in another country usually contrasts in comparison to an American woman who was raised in the states, unfortunately such an American woman is hard to find. The definition of an American woman is rather loose since the USA is an immigration country and people of virtually every country live there. Any foreign women can become legally "American" after residing in the States for five years with their husband. Many foreign women not only become legally American but culturally American, and that is the problem with most local American, women their culture and behavior is what drives a lot of us to go abroad in search of women. For this reason, I sincerely believe that if you bring a foreign woman back to the US and in the likely case that she integrates into American society well, she will be as bad if not worse than most local American women. I think only East Asian women are the exception as many seem to retain their ways for a number of reasons, they are discriminated against more compared to South American and Eastern European women, so they feel a bit alienated and become more dependent on their boyfriend or husband.
Additional update
Told her about this post and she wanted me to add that It is also a matter of common sense,If she has a bitchy typical American attitude,how would she find anybody decent competing with plenty of sexy sweet filipinas.But one she will never be is totally helpless like many Asian women.She has a career and is indupendent,But She knows her man and family to be is first.It is a pity there are not more of American women like her
Here's an interesting article that is in line with what we often discuss in this forum:
[url]http://www.askmen.com/dating/curtsmith_100/142_dating_advice.html[/url]
On a Saturday evening in July 1995, a man named Rich Zubaty (author of Surviving the Feminization of America and founder of MENTOR, an organization advocating healthy masculinity) staged an impromptu rally in Harvard Square to protest the swelling tide of anti-male propaganda and the shaming of men in the media. Calling it "Take Back the Penis," Zubaty thought the rally would register only a minor blip on the sociological radar screen. But amid strident female shouts of "Lorena Bobbitt for Surgeon General," scores of frustrated men began to flock to his banner, all intent on demonstrating their intrinsic belief that "It's O.K. to be a man."
That was almost 10 years ago. Have guys like Zubaty ushered in a decade of change? Not really. The average guy is still P-whipped by our culture, emasculated by the media, forced to cater to women, and pressured to act in a "politically correct" manner. TV, movies and advertisements increasingly portray men as simple-minded buffoons and as pawns to female "strength" and "competence."
what women want
At least books other than Zubaty's have appeared in the meantime -- The War Against Boys by Christina Hoff Summers, No More Mr. Nice Guy! by psychologist Dr. Robert Glover and Being a Man in a Woman's World by Dennis Neder -- all arguing that contemporary men are being robbed of their essential masculinity. But unfortunately, far more influential are movies like Mel Gibson's cotton candy pander-fest What Women Want, in which macho ad exec Nick Marshall (Gibson) loses a promotion to a female coworker because he doesn't understand that "It's a woman's world out there," and he only can redeem himself by learning to think like a female.
So the problem remains. As women continue to usurp positions of power and influence, as our culture exponentially coddles and panders to the female gender, as "equal rights" come to mean a kick in the balls, our society has learned to deify women and demonize men. The message is clear: women are good, men are bad. And what men need, the females trumpet, is to be more like women -- to be thoroughly feminized. This is especially true in the dating/mating arena.
the sad sitcom story
Any typical television sitcom tells the sad story. On Everybody Loves Raymond, the perpetually henpecked Ray Barone is expected to endure his wife Debra's bitchiness, lack of sexual desire and anti-male barbs as she castigates every aspect of his behavior. When he wants to take off for a couple of hours to play golf, he's "not taking care of his family" (the symbolism of her denying him golf -- his putter and balls -- should be obvious); when he wants to relax in front of the TV after a hard day on the job, he "never talks to her or shares his feelings;" and when he wants sex, he's "constantly mauling her."
Poor Ray is not alone...
As every aspect of Ray's masculine nature is demeaned and belittled, he is portrayed as inferior to Debra, while she is lionized as a superior human being. If he does try to stand up for his male rights, she berates him mercilessly, usually threatening to withhold sex until he backs down and rolls over. No mention is ever made that he works all day to pay for her mortgage, car, clothing, food, insurance, and entertainment, while she spends her afternoons at home trying to learn how to cook meatballs, the most important ingredient of which, according to her mother-in-law Marie, is "love." Notice that no one points out that someone has to sweat and toil to pay for this "love."
In essence, Ray is humiliated and punished because he acts like a man and not like the "perfect" Debra, a woman. His response? He apologizes -- Debra's right, he's wrong. He should be more sensitive, romantic and sharing of his feelings. He might just as well cut off his testicles and hand them over to her on a plate.
men who act like women
The problem is that we are turning into a nation of Rays. The standard held up to us is entirely female. This can be easily witnessed in the rise of the "metrosexual," the straight man so feminized that, like a woman, he is obsessed with his appearance, daubs on makeup and opts for cosmetic surgery. Today, men are supposed to have "relationship skills," and they are expected to be capable of achieving "greater intimacy" and to openly express their emotions. They are supposed to be "soul mates" and to "communicate" like girlfriends, not act like testosterone-charged lovers. But at the same time, today's woman has still not shed her typical female hypocrisy; as usual, she still wants it both ways. When there's hard work to be done or bills to be paid, that's when she wants us to act like "real men."
The result? A generation of guys totally bewildered, confused and disoriented. Let's face it: A man's needs are pretty minimal. All he really asks for is regular sex and a cold one. But instead, what he gets are allegations that he's "too aggressive" and trumped-up charges of "sexual harassment" for what is simply a natural appreciation of the opposite sex. If he wants to keep his job or go on a date, he's forced to endure a gut load of female bullying.
the role of feminism
It's tempting to blame the whole mess on the so-called "feminism" that has cut the heart out of Western culture. But mainstream "feminism" is a self-serving movement that grants societal license to female greed. The real culprit here is sex. As always, women -- shrewd and manipulating as they are -- know full well that most guys will do just about anything to get laid. So, as females feel their oats with their newfound power, they do what comes naturally to them: They use it for sexual blackmail. If guys want access to our bodies, they say, they're going to have to dance to our feminizing tunes.
It's completely lost on today's woman that females are too emotionally immature, greedy and self-indulgent to do anything but abuse and misuse this power, and they can't see that their short-term selfish thinking really equates to shooting themselves in the foot. The truth is, men are supposed to be men and women are supposed to be women. Mother Nature has made us this way through five million years of evolution. And it's not nice to fool Mother Nature.
time to take it back
So what can we do about it?
It's time to take our territory back. Take back the penis. This is why Rich Zubaty's rally touched such a raw nerve. Men certainly didn't ask to have their territory redefined. But redefined it has been, right under our noses. Now it's time -- before it's really too late -- to stand up to women, to let them know that we're not going to take it anymore.
As Zubaty writes: "Our job is not to get along with the Goddess. Our job is to f**k the Goddess."
Amen.
Article Suggested By: Gary Smith, Des Moines, IA
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Hmm... I bet that article first appeared on two stone tablets carved from Mount Sinai! lol
I've done a good amount of traveling in the US, and it is important to note that women are more friendly and flirtatious in different parts of the USA-- and thus more fun to be around. Of course as a whole the US is a terrible place for casual non pro sex when compared with international destinations. I'm only talking about the USA here. I thought I'd give my opinion on the 10 best and worst USA cities to be an American male looking for a little nookie when you don't have much money. Of course if your Bill Gates you could have fun in Topeka, Kansas with 50 models no problem-- but how many of us have 45 billion to blow on babes?
Ok, here is my 10 best and worst city USA city list:
10 worst US cities -- with the most stuck up, full of attitude, women--
1. Very worst -- Seattle, WA-- in the entire world.
2. Portland, OR
3. Boston, MA
4. New York, NY
5. Anchorage, AK
6. Chicago, IL
7. Dallas, TX
8. Kansas City, MO
9. Norfolk, VA
10. Phoenix, AZ
11. L.A., CA
10 cities where USA women have less attitude, are more fun, and dating is much more enjoyable:
1. Miami, FL -- best city in the USA in my opinion. Many stuck up American women, but also a lot of women who are pretty sexy, and don't have so much attitude. With a little time you can find a gem.
2. New Orleans, LA
3. Tampa, FL
4. Orlando, FL
5. Memphis, TN
6. Nashville, TN
7. Washington, D.C.
8. Louisville, KY
9. San Francisco, CA
10. San Diego, CA
11. Atlanta, GA
12. Philadelphia, PA, (the women are friendly, but very fat. Possibly the most fat in the country in my opinion.)
Also, of interest. The US Mexican border town women, El Paso, Laredo, Brownsville, etc, all have less attitude as well compared with the average American women.
Just my opinion. Of course nothing in the USA comes even close to Brazil, Thailand, or other international destinations.
Good luck with your adventures,
NB
[quote=New Bound] The US Mexican border town women, El Paso, Laredo, Brownsville, etc, all have less attitude as well compared with the average American women.[/quote]
Having spent time in half these towns, as well as San Diego and Norfolk, I can say from experience that you are quite right. When a town is located close to the border, the men realize that their American female counterparts aren't the only game in town. The female realize this, too, so the attitude factor goes down considerably. Good post!
[QUOTE=Smut Villain]Having spent time in half these towns, as well as San Diego and Norfolk, I can say from experience that you are quite right. When a town is located close to the border, the men realize that their American female counterparts aren't the only game in town. The female realize this, too, so the attitude factor goes down considerably. Good post![/QUOTE]
The same goes for American Women living overseas in Asia and Europe.With competition from the local Asian and European women,they have to adopt new attitudes and learn new skills or end up with lonely nights
I know of course that some of you gentlemen are fathers, but I have to say that I am generally not too fond of children here in the US (at least after they start to talk, they are kind of cute before that). I find that they are in most cases, spoiled, over-indulged, obnoxious, loud, etc...(disclaimer of hypocracy-I'm sure I was like this too as a child). However, I saw just the greatest thing the other day.
I'm currently paying the bills working as a waiter in a restaurant. One of my customers was a heavily accented (recent imigrant, or visitor) 40ish Polish mother, her 12-13 year old daughterh
I know of course that some of you gentlemen are fathers, but I have to say that I am generally not too fond of children here in the US (at least after they start to talk, they are kind of cute before that). I find that they are in most cases, spoiled, over-indulged, obnoxious, loud, etc...(disclaimer of hypocracy-I'm sure I was like this too as a child). However, I saw just the greatest thing the other day.
I'm currently paying the bills working as a waiter in a restaurant. One of my customers was a heavily accented (recent imigrant, or visitor) 40ish Polish mother, her 12-13 year old daughter, and a maybe 7-8 year old son. As I was taking the order of the Mother and daughter, the boy very politely RAISED HIS HAND and waited patiently for me to acknowledge him. When I noticed this, I did acknowledge him, and he asked (in accented English of course) "Please may I use the restroom?". I of course sent him on his way astounded at the courtesy and politeness (more typical American behavior would be brashly interrupting his Mother or Sister, or running off on his own)
If (most) American children acted like this, I would be much less prone to refer to them as "womb sh*t".
It doesn't matter what part of the world you are talking about. The higher the supply of guys with jobs/money, the higher the women will value their vagina.
Make the situation a bit more competitive, ie: less guys with money, or more women competing for the available supply of good men .... and all of a sudden attitudes dissappear and p*ssy becomes plentiful. It seems like mogic, but it's just the power of supply and demand.
I would imagine that the typical american chick overseas would be at a terrible disadvantage to the local girls. In my own travels overseas, I've noticed that other western guys often go a little bit nuts when they arrive. It's kind of like getting out of jail or something. First, you can't get over how great these other women are. Then you realize that these women are just being the way women are supposed to be, and that it's the women back home who are all fucked up.
Rock
The media story about the so-called Runway Bride solidified my negative feelings towards American women. Jennifer Willbanks ran away on a bus and told authorities that she was kidnapped. Her boyfriend is absolutely and completely in need of visiting the doctor to get some testosterone injections so he could be a man and not put up with absolutely psychotic and twisted behavior like this.
CBCG: Can't agree dude. When I lived in Latin America, there was a certain family of females who all had lovely jugs. Everybody had fucked them; I am sure their own parents even fucked them as that is the way they were. A friend of mine, an innocent redneck straight out of central casting, fell for one of them. He was in love. But she wanted dick and plenty of it. So she let him high and dry with his dick in his hand and fucked off to France with some French loser (loser as he got stuck with that witch from hell). That run away bride is obviously a problem case (why the big dumb and expensive wedding anyway). But there are lots of good apple pie eating American women out there who just want to meet a nice innocent boy like
John T Domino
and they will (as long as they stay off the apple pie:))
Here's my take on the so-called "runaway bride".
She is a typical, modern, western female. She's been raised to believe that she can have whatever she wants. Whatever, whenever and however much it may be, she can have it because she is the keeper of that most valued resource.... the vagina.
Now comes the wedding. Uh-Oh! Getting the guy means giving up on some of her other options. Remeber this type of woman likes to have her cake and eat it too. What happens? A typical approach/avoidance conflict. Her solution? Run away, thereby putting of the wedding and still (hopefully) keeping all her options open. Lot's of guys get the same feelings right before they get married so no big deal if it happens to a woman.
What really dissappoints me is that this pathetic dork would actually still be interested enough to take her back.
IMHO, the groom's friends should send him on a short trip to Brazil or Argentina where he can see what a quality woman REALLY is.
Rock
Great fuckin' post, man. Excellent information. Thanks for sharing.
Anybody here watch The Daily Show with Jon Stewart? He recently had on as a guest Christina Hoff Sommers. She was promoting some new book of hers, but I was reminded of a work she put out some years back called "The War Against Boys." Great reading, very informative stuff. The feminazis unleashed a firestorm on her at the time, calling her research methods flawed and so forth. The intensity of the criticism she received leads one to believe that she was probably very close to the truth.
New Bound - thanks for your top ten (and bottom ten) list. I am going to be relocating in about 20 months and a top consideration, aside from salary of course, is availability of friendly females. Oh yeah, and let's not forget the proximity of the closest international airport! Boo-yah!
Any other sugesstions for top US pussy cities? I have seen posted on WSG to stay away from the Bible belt (in general, exceptions exist of course.)
In my experience, in the US, most of the sunbelt states are good. South Florida is my favorite, although there are a lot of snooty women, that area has a large hispanic immigrant population, so its easy to find someone desirable. I saw a similar trend in Texas, Arizona, Nevada, and California. Up North, I thought French Canadian women were very attractive and also quite approachable.
more women are deciding that marriage is not inevitable, that they can lead a fulfilling life as a single. it's an empowering choice, but for many not an easy one
by tamala m. edwards, time magazine
jodie hannaman grew up in houston, a city as fond of formal weddings as of barbecues and rodeos. so it was saying something at duschene academy, her roman catholic girls' school, that hannaman was chosen as most likely to be married first. but her teenage fantasies of buttercream frosting and silky bridesmaids dresses first began to crack with her high school sweetheart. he dated her for more than a decade before she finally got tired of waiting for a marriage proposal that was never going to come. there were other men after that, but it was hannaman who repeatedly decided against a life built for two. marriage, it began to dawn on her, wasn't an end in itself but rather something she wanted only if she found the right guy.
now hannaman, 32, spends 60 hours a week in her job as project manager for chase bank of texas in houston, in an office decorated with art-museum magnets and cathy cartoons. she extends her business trips into the weekends for solo mini-vacations, enjoys the social whirl of the junior league volunteer circuit, and has started looking for a house. while she would love a great romance that would lead to marriage, she no longer feels she has to apologize fr being single. "i've finally matured enough to acknowledge that there's more to life than being married," she says. "i'd like to get married and have kids, but something in the past few years has changed. i'm happier being single."
hannaman might seem to have little in common with the four lead characters on tv's sex and the city, single women who live the supafly life and discard men quicker than last season's bag and shoes--and look damn good doing it. her sex life isn't nearly as colorful, for one thing. all of them, nevertheless, are part of a major societal shift: single women, once treated as virtual outcasts, have moved to the center of our social and cultural life. unattached females--wisecracking, gutsy gals, not pathetic saps--are the heroines du jour in fiction, from melissa bank's collection of stories, the girls' guide to hunting and fishing, to helen fielding's bridget jones's diary, the publishing juggernaut that has spawned one sequel and will soon be a movie. the single woman is tv's it girl as well, not just on sex and the city, the smash hbo series in the midst of its third buzz-producing season in the u.s., but also on a growing number of american network shows focused on strong, career-minded single women.
the single woman has come into her own. not too long ago, she would live a temporary existence: a rented apartment shared with a girlfriend or two and a job she could easily ditch. adult life--a house, a car, travel, children--only came with a husband. well, gone are the days. forty-three million american women are currently single--more than 40% of all adult females, up from about 30% in 1960. (the ranks of single men have grown at roughly the same rate.) if you look at women of the most marriageable age, the numbers are even more dramatic: in 1963, 83% of women 25 to 55 were married; by 1997 that figure had dropped to 65%. "are you kidding? an 18% to 20% change? "this is huge," says linda waite, a sociologist at the university of chicago.
to be sure, the rise in single women encompasses some other important trends. an estimated 4 million of these unmarried women are cohabiting with their lovers, and a growing number are being more open about gay relationships. nevertheless, single women as a group are wielding more and more clout. a young and rubicam study released earlier this year labeled single women the yuppies of this decade, the blockbuster consumer group whose tastes will matter most to retailers and dictate our trends. the report found that nearly 60% of single women own their own home, buying them faster than single men; that single women fuel the home-renovation market; and that unmarried women are giving a big boost to the travel industry, making up half the adventure travelers and 2 out of 5 business travelers.
equally important is the attitudinal change. the dictionary once defined a spinster as an unmarried woman above a certain age: 30. if you passed that milestone without a partner, your best hope was to be seen as an eccentric auntie mame; your worst fear was to grow old like miss havisham, locked in her cavernous mansion, bitter after being ditched at the altar. not any more. "we've ended the spinster era," says philadelphia psychotherapist diana adile kirschner, who has made single women a focus of her practice. "women used to tell me about isolation, living alone, low level of activity, feeling different. now there's family, lots of friends, they're less isolated and more integrated into social lives."
more confident, more self-sufficient, and more choosy than ever, women no longer see marriage as a matter of survival and acceptance. they feel free to start and end relationships at will--more like, say, men. in a yankelovich poll for time and cnn, nearly 80% of men and women said they thought they would eventually find the perfect mate. but when asked whether, if they didn't find mr. perfect, they would marry someone else, only 34% of women said yes, in contrast to 41% of men. "let's face it. you don't just want a man in your life," says author bank, 39. "you only want a great man in your life."
single by choice--it's an empowering statement for many women. yet it's not a choice that all women arrive at easily or without some angst, and it raises a multitude of questions. are women too unrealistic about marriage--so picky about men that they're denying themselves and society the benefits of marriage while they pursue an impossible ideal? does the rejection of marriage by more women reflect a widening gender gap--as daughters of the women's movement discover that men, all too often, have a far less liberated view of the wife's role in marriage? do the burgeoning ranks of single women mean an outbreak of sex and the city promiscuity? and what about children? when a woman makes the empowering decision to rear a child on her own, what are the consequences, for mother and child?
society, to be sure, is far more accepting of single women than it was even a few years ago. when barbara baldwin, the director of planned parenthood in tennessee, divorced her husband in 1981, she needed her father's help before anyone would give the then 29-year-old single mother a car loan and a credit card. beverley dejulio, a divorced chicago mother who hosts handy ma'am, a weekly home-improvement show on pbs, says she dreaded the hardware store for years, because salespeople kept asking, "where's your husband?" and the stone age year when anne elizabeth, a chicago artist, then 35, had to fight to not be listed as spinster on the mortgage application for her lakeside home? it was 1984.
in many cases, women who choose the single life have looked at those around them and vowed not to make their mistakes. "my mother married her first boyfriend. all my relatives stayed in marriages that are really tough," says pam henneberry, 31, an accountant who lives in manhattan. "when i looked at the unhappiness that was in my parents' marriage, i said, i can't do that.'" if cynthia rowe, 43, a los angeles* area store manager and divorcé, gets depressed, she thinks of her five closest girlfriends. "they are all just existing in their marriages," she says. "two of them got married when they were young. twenty years later, they had outgrown each other. one has not got over her husband's affair. two friends aren't even sleeping in the same bedroom with their husband anymore. their personal happiness is placed last, and their kids know they are miserable."
some women, of course, have learned from their own life. "at 28, i was terrified of the world," says mary lou parsons, a raleigh, n.c., professional fund raiser, recalling her 1980 divorce. "i'd been raised a southern woman, sheltered and protected by my family, then by my husband." in the ensuing 20 years she learned to raise her kids on her own--and how to start her own business, buy a town house, move to alaska and back and, most of all, relish life on her own. "i had to get beyond that thinking in a lot of women's minds that aloneness is not o.k. but now i find solitude exhilarating." marcelle clements, author of the improvised woman: single women reinventing the single life, notes that there are many women, like parsons, who were "taken by surprise. they were in relationships that broke up, hit what they thought was catastrophe, only to find that they were o.k., and [they] adopt an attitude that said, i'm fine, i don't need to be with anyone else."
not surprisingly, many conservatives are disturbed at this growing acceptance of singlehood and its implied rejection of marriage. danielle crittenden, author of what our mothers didn't tell us, argues that women have set themselves up for disappointment, putting off marriage until their 30s only to find themselves unskilled in the art of compatibility and surrounded by male peers looking over their chardonnays at women in their 20s. "modern people approach marriage like it's a bosnia-serbia negotiation. marriage is no longer as attractive to men," she says. "no one's telling college girls it's easier to have kids in your 20s than in your 30s."
women who have chosen the single life sometimes have their own qualms. singlehood does not yield itself to a simple, blithe embrace. it's complicated, messy terrain because not needing a man is not the same as not wanting one. for all the laughs on sex and the city, one can feel the ache that comes when yet another episode ends with the heart still a lonely hunter. and if you think being a single woman is all fun and games, just listen to star parker, who is married to actor matthew broderick. even as she's become a mascot for the feisty new single woman, parker says she often stands on the set in her spike jimmy choo open-toes and see-through shirts, worried that she isn't being a good traditional wife. "i know he doesn't have his laundry done, that he hasn't had a hot meal in days," she says of her husband. "that stuff weighs on my mind." parker regales single friends with tales of how boring married life is and how much luckier they are to have freedom and fun. does she really believe it? "well, no," she admits. "it's just a fun thing to say to make single people feel better."
even women who generally reflect on their choices with assurance find themselves sometimes in the valley of what-ifs: what if i made the wrong choice to walk away? what if singlehood turns out to be not a temporary choice but an enforced state? "my sister knows that i'm good for a call every couple of months just crying, what's wrong with me?'" says henneberry. "i'm not willing to accept someone who's going to make me unhappy. but there are days when i have a physical need to go to sleep and wake up with someone there." mary mayotte, 49, has a successful bicoastal career as a public-speaking coach. but she admits the occasional pang of regret. "there was a point where i had men coming out of my ears," she says. "i don't think i was so nice to some of them. every now and then i wonder if god is punishing me. sometimes i look back and say, i wish i had made a different decision there.'"
some feel women are on an impossible search for the perfect man, the one who not only makes you feel, as julia roberts said of meeting benjamin bratt, "hit in the head with a bat," but also better for it. "marriage is not what it used to be, getting stability or economic help," says the national marriage project's whitehead. "marriage has become this spiritualized thing, with labels like best friend' and soul mate'" some sociologists say these lofty standards make sense at a time when the high divorce rate hisses in the background like darth vader. but others suggest the marriage pendulum has swung from the hollowly pragmatic to an unhealthy romantic ideal.
michael broder, a philadelphia psychotherapist and author of the art of living single, decries what he calls the "perfect-person problem," in which women refuse to engage unless they're immediately taken with a man, failing to give a relationship a chance to develop. "few women can't tell you about someone they turned down, and i'm not talking about some grotesque monster," he says. "but there's the idea that there has to be this great degree of passion to get involved, which isn't always functional. so you have people saying things like, if i can't have my soul mate, i'd rather be alone.' and after that, i say, well, you got your second choice.'"
single women are used to hearing this complaint, and most don't buy it. "some in my family think i'm not stopping till i find perfection," says henneberry. "i don't feel like that. i just want the one who makes me go, finally.'" harvard sociologist carol gilligan notes, "there's now a pressure to create relationships that both men and women want to be in, and that's great. this is revolutionary." even ellen fein, co-author of the notorious 1996 dating guide the rules, says her man-chasing disciples don't settle for just anyone. "most of my clients have jobs; they can pay the rent; they can take themselves out to dinner," says fein. "they want men to value them." many women can tell the story of a friend or relative who looked at her and said, "if you really wanted to be married, you'd be married." the comment can sometimes slap like a wet towel, in part because it is true and in part because of its implicit message: you could have compromised, perhaps settled, and been among the married. and so, the logic follows, you have no one to blame but yourself.
but these women have fought for years to be themselves--self-reliant, successful, clever, funny, willful, spirited--and for all the angst that the single life can bring, they're not willing to give it up for any arrangement that would stifle them. "it would be great if i found a relationship that allowed me to be as i am and added something to that," says documentary producer pam wolfe, 33, sitting in her one-bedroom condo in new york city. "but i'm not going to do anything to attract a person that means changing. i've worked long and hard to be myself."
--with reporting by tammerlin drummond/new york, elizabeth kaufman/nashville, anne moffett/washington, jacqueline savaiano/los angeles and maggie sieger/chicago
No doubt about anything said in the article. Some good stuff Long Stroker, thanks for sharing it man! Some scary shit too.......... I just don't know what to think of anymore, really, and far less so - what to expect of American / Americanized women. From very early ages they seem to evolve into becoming these feminazis / anti-man creatures. It's really scary. It's a good thing that I live approx. 2 hours away from TJ heaven because otherwise, I wouldn't even imagine what to do.
Thanks for posting that Time article Long Stroker. I looked it up on Google and I think its worth mentioning that its already 5 years old (2000). I have no problem at all that a woman isn’t interested in marriage these days. I know I´m not based on what Ive seen and what so many married guys have told me (never get married). Read about trends in Europe, which tends to lead the US in social issues, and you´ll see that the % of single parents, by choice (female and male) has skyrocketed over the last generation. IMO marriage is not the issue here.
American women are rejecting being women, not marriage. Of course the career excuses are always intertwined in this issue, again just an excuse. I believe that women should be fully liberated, have all the equal opportunities in the workforce/society etc. And they do in most “developed” nations and many less developed countries like my home country, Argentina.
To use Argentina as an example, there are more females than males enrolled in higher education in nearly all fields here (medicine, law, business) and I know from meeting with my lawyers, going to the optometrist, seeing the politicians in the news, that the presence of women is overwhelming everywhere (and I love it!) The difference is these women relish in their femininity and apparently (and from personal experience) love men. They don’t spend 16 hours a day in an office and 8 hours hibernating in a Manhattan apartment ignoring men until they are 35, then decide maybe it is time to try to find “one” only to realize that men aren’t lined up around the corner like when they were 25. They are socially and sexually active throughout their young adulthood.
I have visited Europe many times but only lived there briefly. Again the women there seem so much more beautiful, elegant, and male-friendly than American women, even though they also have areers and may not give a sh*t about some silly fairy-tale white wedding.
The US female is completely f*cked-up and not even worth considering. I couldn’t care less why they are like that, I'm just glad I'm 5000 miles away from them.
I often hear that women are the smarter of the species, but then encounter a situation that makes me think that a WOMAN coined that phrase.
I was watching 20/20 (I think that was the show) and they featured career women who were now too old to have children naturally because they had forsaken having children during their most fertile years. Can you BELIEVE that they thought they could beat Nature and have kids NATURALLY when they reach(ed) their very late 30's or 40's?? These same women were lamenting the fact that they never had kids and some of them lamented the fact that they didn't have a life partner (spouse, if you will). In their eagerness to rub men's noses in the dirt and express their freedom, they neglected to look at the whole picture.
Their younger sisters are relishing the here and now, what with men lining up to be with them, but they feel that can go on forever. They will eventually make the same mistake the aforementioned women made. After years of having their head in the clouds and having its weight supported by their own egos, it comes crashing to earth when they realize that A] they have some SERIOUS competition from babes who are now younger than they and B] they didn't act in their best interests when time was on their side. Now they are bitter and instead of assigning the proper amount of blame to a narrow-minded view that produced less than wise choices, they lay most if not ALL the blame on men not being the picture of perfection in order to fit the bill. The Superwoman myth was busted quite a while back; when they realize this and start thinking pragmatically, maybe they won't be such abominable creatures. Then again, I'd have better luck expecting Bush to wear a thong and pasties while pole dancing in a gay nightclub.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4542827.stm[/url]
I have just been listening to Dr. Laura (C.Schlessinger). Here are some of the phone ins:
1. Some lady who is 5'3'' and weighs in at 160 lb does not like her husband saying she is too fat and should lose weight.
2. Some lady has complained about her toddlers playing with plastic guns. She worries they might shoot up schools when they are old enough to go to school.
3. Some lady went with a married man for 6 months and then broke it off. Dr Laura advises her to phone up the guy's wife and say her husband plays around.
4. Some lady is pissed at her husband complaining about not liking his job.
I wonder what Dr Laura would think of this site.
Oh! As regards AW, gimme one before a "lady" from the "emerging democracy" of Saudi Arabia.
Impotent ex-husband ordered to pay damages.
Italy's Supreme Court backs woman's 'right to sexuality'
REUTERS
May 12, 2005ROME - An impotent Italian man who kept his problem a secret from his wife until after their wedding must pay her damages for "eroding" her right to have a family, Italy's Supreme Court has ruled.
The woman, identified by the Italian media as Cristina S., was quick to get her marriage annulled in the 1990s after learning to her horror that her husband could not consummate it. She then demanded damages, saying she had been robbed of her "right to sexuality" and the promise of a family. Despite losing legal battles in lower courts, she kept appealing, and finally the Supreme Court found in her favor.
"Her fundamental right (was) eroded to fully realize a family, as a woman and a wife, and eventually as a mother," according to excerpts from the court ruling published in Italian newspapers on Thursday. -Reuters
Gentlemen, the basic point here is that Western women in general believe that they have all the rights in relationships and that men have none. This attitude is no longer just limited to the USA. In fact, it is like cancer spreading throughout the body. It is no secret that contemplating marriage in certain countries is foolish. I wonder if a man could get damages awarded to him if his wife hid the fact that her pussy was loose or that she was barren until after the marriage?
I concede that the husband was wrong to have concealed his condition but the marriage was quickly annulled and the woman was free to exercise "her right" to a family at some other man's expense. The way in which she dogged this man until she got some money out of him smacks of extreme vindictiveness.
I think that the majority of us agree that American women are not the best choice for relationships that exceed a few hours or less in duration. However, I am interested in seeing some real alternatives besides the occasional mongering foray beyond our national borders. Some mongers may wish to go into retirement, mitigate the risks of the hobby by having one partner for a long period of time or they may not have much time for travel and are unable to relocate overseas for one reason or another.
I have noticed that in Latin America many women have husbands who have immigrated to the USA or Canada to work while their wives remain at home. I am sure that there must be American men who work in the USA and have foreign wives who remain in their country of origin and only visit the USA on tourist visas. This arrangement might actually work quite well since the woman would not be living in the USA and would be unlikely to become Americanized especially if she does not speak English and only visits for a short period of time.
I would like to see some posts from people who know of such or similar arrangements where guys are pretty much tied to their jobs with little vacation time. Hopefully, some useful ideas and options will appear for guys who are fed up with American women and really want to do something about it apart from going on parole from sex prison.
Chocha Monger,
Actually, frigid and barren women CAN be divorced or annulled ( the marriage, not the woman!) very easily in a canonical marriage. Particularly if she was aware of her inability to reproduce and concealed this fact.
As to looseness, that is relative. How well is the individual hung? ;)
Cheers,
Sporadic
Chocha Monger,
That sounds like an idea I posted on the "Suggestions" section of this forum some time ago: my idea was to have an "expatriate" forum where present, former, and wannabe expatriates could share notes pretty much along the same line as what you're talking about.
The inspiration struck me because, as a member of this forum for some time now, I've noticed that quite a few guys here pretty much agree that Westernized women basically suck eggs. The problem: not all of us can relocate at the drop of a hat, and probably wouldn't know how to do so, anyway (things like where to get a job, citizenship issues, buying/renting a house, etc.). A lot of us here apparently want to do it but just don't know where to start.
I guess that's why I like Mexico so much: besides being shackled with a weakness for Latinas, I was able to live as a "de facto" expatriate for five years by living (and exclusively mongering and dating) in Tijuana and Ensenada, and working in San Diego. The advantage was that (1) a man could live like a king on an American salary that would be considered "small potatoes" in the U.S., especially in Southern California; and (2) relatively little work needs to be done to establish one's self in a Mexican town, espacially one bordering a major U.S. metropolis.
As you can see, Mexico was a very easy foriegn country for relocation. But what about the guy who wants to go to Australia? Or Thailand? Or (for that matter) any other country not so close to U.S. shores?
That's one hell of setup, Smut Villain. Did you cross the border each day? What was your average round trip commute time?
Dude, the more I think about this, the more attractive it sounds. Vastly reduced cost of living, like you said. All the benefits of 3rd world living with a first world salary, without the inconvenience of living overseas. Can you elaborate more on the overall mechanics of how this thing worked for you?
Smut Villain,
Your arrangement where you lived in Mexico and worked in San Diego was very ingenius and a great compromise between having to move entirely to another country. Straddling the border can be a good solution for Mexicana lovers who want to avoid citizenship issues and the challenge of finding a job in Mexico that would pay enough to support their needs. Thank you for sharing your experience.
How, as you mentioned things get a bit more complicated as you move further afield. Countries that have relaxed immigration policies are being forced to tightened up and enforce tougher regulations as part of the "War on Terror" and the drive to keep illegal aliens out of the USA. This has inadvertently affected Americans overseas because there are no exceptions when foreign immigration officials start checking to see who overstayed their visit without going through the necessary bureaucratic red tape. The increased scrutiny has landed the Honduran Chief of Immigration in jail when it was discovered that he granted visas for Chinese illegals enroute to the USA via Honduras and sold passports to Colombians and other foreigners living in Honduras.
The ideal thing would be to bring a girlfriend to the USA to visit from time to time but this is much easier said than done. It is almost impossible for a female from a lesser developed country to get a US visa, especially if she is young and sexy. I have known a few who actually managed to get one but I think that it was due to pure luck and the consular official having had a marvellous BBBJ that morning before showing up for work.
Getting a tourist visa for a foreign wife may be easier and might offer a way around the pitfalls of permanently transplanting a nice woman to the USA only to have her become American. Marriage even overseas is still a big step but I think this might be a way to cut down on the risk and enjoy the best of both worlds. You don't have to file any papers swearing to support your wife for the next ten years in the USA since she is just visiting for a short time and there is very little incentive for her to try and run off and marry a wealthier man because: (1) She is already married (2) As a non-immigrant she is only legally in the country for a limited amount of time and cannot adjust status without first leaving, assuming that she is able to divorce and marry someone else willing to file the necessary paperwork. I think that these are two possible safeguards for those who want to go that route.
[quote=Long Stroker]Dude, the more I think about this, the more attractive it sounds. Vastly reduced cost of living, like you said. All the benefits of 3rd world living with a first world salary, without the inconvenience of living overseas. Can you elaborate more on the overall mechanics of how this thing worked for you?[/quote]
Well, I'll try to keep it short but to the point. I was in the Navy at the time and wound up getting stationed in San Diego. Nobody really likes staying on base, but when you consider the price of living in Southern California (even 10 years ago) this was a prohibitive option, at best. That's when a Hispanic-American friend told me about living in Tijuana, and I took the bait (haven't regretted it either). Here's how it stacks up:
[b]Commuting to/from work :[/b] I lived in Las Playas (literally, "the beach") so I chose to drive. A good way to avoid the infamous hours-long waits at the San Ysidro line (the main point of entry) one only needed to go to the next entry point (was it I-805? I can't remember now). Otherwise, the S.D. trolley only takes 30 minutes to go from the border to downtown San Diego. You usually get no hassle from U.S. Customs when crossing, but be careful about who/what you bring across.
[b]Housing :[/b] Average rent in Tijuana was WAY less than in the U.S. (I was paying $400/month for a five-bedroom house). Yes, Mexico does have cable TV and other amenities, but at a much lower cost IMHO. $30 easily got me a week's worth of groceries. Most of the heating /cooking power is via natural gas (don't forget to turn your bottle in to the neighborhood truck every week!). [u]CAUTION[/u]: It's very, very true what they say about the water, do NOT drink it from the tap - use bottled water instead (you'll immediatley notice how NONE of the locals will drink their own tap water). You can safely bathe and do laundry in it, though.
[b]Emergency Services[/b] : Comparable to being in a rural part of the U.S. in a lot of cases: the doctors aren't bad in an emergency (but stick to the U.S. for more serious stuff), and when you get away from downtown the cops aren't even that bad (a lot of them are even honest - imagine that!).
Depending on the neighborhood, the natives can be very friendly indeed (just great for dating/messing around). Just don't live near the fence, as that's like the ghetto (crime included).
I could go on but there's too much to talk about. Best thing about all this was that one only needed to move across the border to get the ball rolling, that's it. No passport, no visa, just go there.
SM,
Thats an informative post about TJ, I wouldnt have ever considered doing that. Not because Im lazy, I just have heard nothing but horror stories about Tiujuana. I have been to Mexico several times but mostly just the tourist areas like Cancun and the Texas border towns. I did go to Monterrey once and that place is not bad. However moving there would be something else since there are other places that are so great like Brasil / Argentina and also much cheaper. Also and most importantly, is there anything good about mexican women? Most of them I knew in the USA were so ugly I was turning them down. Also from my experience they tend to be quite conservative and religous (quite the contrary in other Latin American countries). One of the last girls I dated before leaving the US was mexican, she didnt give blow jobs, whats up with that.
Forgot to ask, are there any Caucasian women in TJ, or are they all aboriginies / indians like the Mexicans in the US?
Moving overseas has its own set of complexities, most of the Americans that I have met, who have succesfully moved abroad, tend to be highly successful. This is especially true for Americans who have moved to Europe. Australia isn't a difficult country to migrate to if you are under the age of 45 and are a skilled professional. Europe(at least the 15 original EU states, Norway, and Switzerland) and Australia have a standard of living that is comparable to the USA but both places offer a more relaxed lifestyle, in the form of longer vacations(Australians get about 5 weeks to 8 weeks off per year, Europeans in EU countries get 6-8 weeks).
[quote=CBGBConnisur]Moving overseas has its own set of complexities...[/quote]
Yeah, that's my point exactly; hence my proposal for an "expatriate" forum. Moving to another country is not exactly the [u]easiest[/u] undertaking in the world, and does indeed have its own pitfalls. But, if done right, it can be worth the trouble for the right people (for example, [u]you[/u] seem to be happy... :) )
[quote=Moore]I just have heard nothing but horror stories about Tiujuana...[/quote]
Actually it's no coincidence that most of those horror stories occur in the tourist areas. Kind of like judging the entire U.S.A. from what you see on only one street in only one town.
[quote]Also and most importantly, is there anything good about mexican women?[/quote]
Aside from the fact that I haven't experienced [u]half[/u] the head games from them as I have from American women, and that they seem much more approachable (of course, speaking fluent Spanish doesn't hurt ;) )
[quote]Most of them I knew in the USA were so ugly I was turning them down...[/quote]
Of course, you were in the U.S. at the time. Besides, three of the most attractive women I've ever dated were south of the border (just stay off the well-beaten tourist path).
[quote]Forgot to ask, are there any Caucasian women in TJ, or are they all aboriginies / indians like the Mexicans in the US?[/quote]
Actually they come in all flavors (just like American women). When you consider that the Spaniards had a colony there at one time, it makes sense that some of the people actually have European bloodlines (ever watch blond-haired blue-eyed [u]Christina[/u], the Univision talk show? And how do you explain Shakira?). I've even seen Mexicans with African bloodlines (they tend to come from the southern regions of the country).
I had many of the same doubts the first time I visited Mexico, but spending a week down there quickly erased any preconceived notions I may have had. Now I miss the damn place.
Hi All,
There is a comprehensive source of information about expatriation on the internet:
[url]www.escapeartist.com[/url]
I also would like to see an expatriation forum here on WSG.
"Bart"
Well, I have met Moore and he does speak good Spanish. I have successfully expatriated myself and I think the following are keys:
1) Language skills. I speak good Spanish and some French. You need to research your areas of choice and learn the language [b]before[/b] you show up there!
2) Portable job skills. This is a tough one. If you are a white collar professional, you will find that many of your skills don't transfer. You may need a more blue-collar type of skill. In my case I am a skilled cook, can operate a variety of heavy equipment, and am a landscaper.
3) Cultural knowledge. You'll likely not fit into the society you move to if you don't know anything about its history, for example.
4) Patience, flexibility, and initially reduced expectations. You'll be uncomfortable at times, lonely at times, and frustrated at times. How will you handle this? Will you cut and run back to the US or whatever your home country is at the first sign of problems, or will you give the situation some time to develop?
5) Some money saved up. This may seem obvious but you will not be increasing your Social Security benefits while living abroad, in most cases. At some point you will be old. Once your dick can no longer get hard it might or might not be worth it to live abroad any more. You may need to move back to the US, Canada, or wherever you are from at that point and eating cat food would not be a fun thing in your dotage. So I am talking about money saved up that you [b]never touch[/b] while you are an ex-pat.
6) Guts. Balls. A sense of adventure. The ability to make a decision and never look back, only forward.
México, while it may be the easiest for Americans and Canadians, is far from the best. And I love México. It is just that it is sexually conservative and not that cheap any more. And, you cannot drink the water. The poster who talked about commuting from TJ to San Diego I am sure had a good deal given his situation, but these border towns are not really México. The central highlands of México are awesome. San Luis Potosí, for example.
However definitely avoid Argentina. Crime is rampant, the women are fat, and the country is overrun with rats and bugs of all kinds.
Dickhead, are you sure you are referring to Argentina? If that was a description of Brazil, I would believe it but not Argentina.
That was a joke. I just don't want any more fucking gringos coming down here and messing everything up.
I'm sorry for you Dickhead but I think that the gringo invasion is inevitable. Eventually there will be so many gringos that the price of real estate and pussy will sky-rocket. History tends to repeat itself in many places, for example Costa Rica. Puerto Rico is a really extreme case of the results of this pattern. The island is not a state but it might as well be. The women there are almost bad as the ones on the mainland US except that they look better inspite of all the fast food joints on every corner.
Think of Argentina as California during the gold rush. However, prospectors are searching for a different kind of gold. If it is any consolation you can blame American women for pushing the gringo hordes ever further South. Now give me some tips on how to go about staking my claim on Argentina's pussy market before the other monger's price me out of a good deal! ;)
Well, you want to learn to speak Portuguese which is the official language of Argentina. You also have to get used to living in a tropical climate. Most people won't be able to handle the spicy food here, either, so get used to that. Plus, you have to learn to get along with black people as Argentina is about 70% black. Buenos Aires still has mostly unpaved dirt streets with open sewers or "jubes" running through them, and the donkey and ox carts tend to make getting around very difficult. But it's fun seeing the indigenous people in their native garb, placidly carrying their laundry on their heads to go wash it in the river.
OK all that is bullshit too but please go to Costa Rica instead.
[quote=Dickhead]OK all that is bullshit too but please go to Costa Rica instead.[/quote]
Dickhead,
Too late - I think you already fucked up (get ready for the Gringo invasion :) !)
Seriously, I don't think you have too much to worry about. From my experience, most Americans (while not entirely averse to visiting a foriegn locale) are a little too closed-minded to consider becoming an expatriate by choice (remember your [u]rule #6[/u]?). Or, in some cases, they're so ignorant of other cultures/countries that they have no idea of what they may be missing; you know as well as I do that a lot of people in the U.S. haven't had the opportunity to experience other cultures as we have (as an example, despite the proximity of San Diego to the international border you'd be surprised that more guys haven't taken advantage of the situation the way I did; I was sort of a rarity, actually).
So don't worry - most of the Gringoes will probably stay home by uninformed choice.
"From my experience, most Americans are a little too closed-minded to consider becoming an expatriate by choice. Or, in some cases, they're so ignorant of other cultures/countries that they have no idea of what they may be missing"
Smut,
What they are missing may be quasi-legal SW's and low priced pussy, I'll grant you that. But try to earn a decent living in Mexico or Argentina or Ukraine. Good luck. There is a reason that people wait in line or risk their lives just to get to the US. Economic opportunity, stability, freedom. I don't want to be the "I Love the USA" cheerleader, but I have been to TJ quite a few times. Call me crazy, but I would still prefer to live here. I like to drink the water. But even if I didn't, the opportunity to get ahead, support one's family and earn some serious cash is going to decide the day for most . . .
_P
The degree of freedom I experience now is far, far, FAR greater than the degree of freedom I experienced in the United States, which is rapidly becoming a fundamentalist theocracy.
So true DH. Since 9/11, laws have changed that IMHO change the character of American freedom.
The fundamentalist wave, though nothing new, has moved into the political area like never before. The "moral majority" of the early eighties was nothing more than a taste, a tiny taste of what is happening now. Scary, very scary.
Where I now live (Europe), I have to carry a national ID card, and the police have powers to stop you on the street or in your car without probable cause. Guess what? They only bother "troublemaker types." The John Q. Citizens never get bothered.
Who is more "free?"
Cheers,
Sporadic
"the police have powers to stop you on the street or in your car without probable cause. Guess what? They only bother troublemaker types" . . .
Well, that could put me in possible jeopardy. And Dickhead for damn sure.
While a want the freedom to buy some pussy or smoke a joint, I also want the chance to have a decent job or start a business. Or drink the water for that matter . . .
Pro, let me clarify.
When I said troublemakers, I was talking about very shady types... the kind that would get extra attention in any airport immigration queue. I am not talking about t-shirts, or long hair, but unkempt. Not unshaven, but unwashed.
Begging in the street, obviously shit-faced at 9am, slept in the gutter kind of "troublemakers." Any reasonable person, certainly anyone with the disposable income for p4p would not qualify.
Cheers,
Sporadic
Well, sometimes I am shit faced at 9 AM but that's only when I'm on my way HOME. Anyway down here you can get laid for $6 US if you want to so it doesn't take a whole lot of disposable income to monger. BTW I have had zero contact with cops in the 14 months I've lived here but in México they definitely can and [b]do[/b] stop you and search you with no probable cause. That happened to me in Guadalajara in 2004 and no, I wasn't drunk, and no, I wasn't mongering.
Actually there are some pretty hot looking female cops here. Nicely made up, cute hairdos, a little jewelry, not like the [b]fucking bull dyke macho ball busting pit bull female AMERICAN WOMEN cops[/b].
Multiple comments
1st I think we should be on another thread since this is the American Women section.
2nd I agree with DHs last post, which at least partially pertains to the proper subject. I have sprained my neck a few times looking at female cops in Buenos Aires.
3rd Prokofiev, right on. The US may suck in some fundamental ways but theres no doubt where Id go as an immigrant looking for the best overall prospects for my family and I, the USA, like my grandparents did.
4th Smut Villian, are there any sexy non-indigenous women in Mexico other than movie stars, pop stars, and rare decendants of ancient Spanish colonies that "actually have European bloodlines" (lets talk about the common women you see all day everywhere in the street for a second)? I havent watched Univision lately so I dont know who Cristina is. Pretty sad when you have to think of soap operas and MTV to come up with a "mexican" (isnt Shakira Colombian?) woman that you wouldnt have to headdress with a grocery bag. To me the point of relocating is to go to a place overridden with attractive sexual women (ie supply far exceeds demand). I just never saw that in Mexico anywhere. Its the worst country I believe Ive ever visited for women, although well-travelled colleages have told me that Bolivia is worse.
5th Argentina will never be Puerto Rico or Costa Rica. Its simply to far away for that to happen, which has been proven well my many other great places that have existed for many years. See other threads for more posts.
M
Shakira is indeed Colombian, born in Barranquilla. I love México. It is deep in my heart and in my soul and I have been going there since I was six years old. However, it is chronicly fucked for reasons that are very complex to explain, upon which I have expounded in earlier posts. [b]But and importantly[/b], although the [b]average[/b] quality in México is fairly low, [b][i]some[/i] of the most beautiful women on the planet[/b] can be found there. Just so fucking gorgeous that when you look into the liquid pool of their eyes, you melt clean away like the tigers in "Little Black Sambo." And to fuck a Méxican chica takes the time and patience that I once had before I discovered South America where pussy is on a rack by the door. Catholicism is a serious thing in this country. But once they give it up, IME, they give it [b]all[/b] up; heart, soul, pussy (ass not really but homey don't go there), and they are [b]loyal[/b]. However, being loyal also means they are [b]jealous as hell[/b]; it's unbelievable.
But as Moore points out, this is the [b]American[/b] Women thread. So, in conclusion, I would state that the average American woman could not fuck her way out of a dry cleaning bag. In contrast, Méxican women have handed down through the ages an excellent pussy control that they will only show you if they actually like you. Otherwise, they just lie there. And yeah, they would rather fuck than suck.
[QUOTE=Dickhead]That was a joke. I just don't want any more fucking gringos coming down here and messing everything up.[/QUOTE]
I don't have any plans to live in Argentina, currently I'm in Australia and am very happy here, Australia's got all of the comforts of the US but the women are not as prudish as American females, especially towards sex. I could get laid buying a couple of beers for a 20 year old blonde Elle lookalike. For obvious reasons, leaving the US and moving to another country is not an option for many. I tried Europe and wound up severely dissappointed(seeing a security guard in a Budapest Supermarket with an AK-47, living in an apartment with no heat, sticking out like a pimple on a donkey's ass because I only speak English, etc.), they just don't accept foreigners over there, even Americans will have substantial hurdles to climb in order to live and work legally there. The economy is in the complete shits over there because of the overvalued Euro.
Why is it Europe's fault that you only speak English?
[quote=Dickhead] Why is it Europe's fault that you only speak English?[/quote]
Dickhead, I don't think that's what CBGB meant by his statement. Gringos can stick out like a sore thumb in a lot of places, even Australia (I know I did when some "Sheilas" heard my American accent).
Anyway, there doesn't seem to be a concensus on which country is the best for relocating. I think one man's princess is another man's troll, and the only thing anyone here seems to agree on is that Westernized women pretty much drive us to consider such drastic measures.
P.S. to Prokiev: I never said I wanted to [u]work[/u] in Mexico - I'm not crazy ;). Maybe that's why I liked "straddling" the border; I get to have my U.S. $$$$ while spending what is (even during present times) considerably less on living expenses than in a lot of American locales.
What is so "drastic" about relocating to another country? Look at the EU (another reason CBGB's post is suspect); you have 20 countries with different languages, customs, cultures, and cuisines, and the people are all moving freely about. Look at Amsterdam. It's absurd to say they "don't accept foreigners there."
Why is relocating to another country such a big deal as compared to relocating to another state or another city? It's fucking easy if you do some research and preparation. I've lived in six countries in my life. Four of them I enjoyed more than living in the US. I bet I will live in at least five more countries before I die.
Don't know the language? Learn it. They won't let you work legally? Work illegally. Don't have any money saved up? Sell your house and your car and your stupid assed jet skis and ATVs.
How many people have ever robbed a bank? How many people have ever wanted to rob a bank? Well, one way to rob a bank is to default on your credit cards. Buy an RV with your credit cards. Stock it with food, clothing, and other supplies on your credit cards. Drive it into México and disappear.
FUCK Bush.
FUCK American cows.
FUCK the religious right.
FUCK anything that will stand still long enough.
DH!,
"How many people have ever wanted to rob a bank? Well, one way to rob a bank is to default on your credit cards. Buy an RV with your credit cards"
Hey, thanks for the sound financial advice. How's that illegal job coming along at the Mansion?
Have you been hitting the sauce again tonight???
During my divorce, my ***** of an American ex-wife filed a number of false accusations against me to get as much money as possible. One of her allegations was that I had intentions of fleeing to South America. The judge recognized that as bullshit immediately since there was no evidence of me liquidating or transferring assets. Anyway, when I discovered how much money I had to pay in alimony and child support combined I actually contemplated making good on her lie.
However, there is one little detail that must be taken into account when becoming a fugitive from financial obligations. You can never return. This includes transitting through the US when travelling by air. For some reason most international flights from South America to other regions seem to transit through the US which would not be good for you if you're a wanted man.
What happens if they were to cancel your passport? If you only have US citizenship then you're screwed. I'd rather find a way to send the old hag a check rather than having to look over my shoulder for the rest of my life. Being an American illegal overseas sounds quite adventurous but I'd check out the alternatives first.
No problem, PK. Any time. Another great way to make money here is to buy all your beer at Norte where the deposit is 60 centavos and then return them all at Disco for 65 centavos. It's huge.
Or marry a rich American woman. I've married four American women and been widowed each time. The first three died from eating poisoned mushrooms and the fourth one died from a blow to the head. That's what she gets for not eating the mushrooms.
I don't work at the mansion, though. I tried to talk them into paying me 50 pesos to cook the dinners, so that there would not be 20 steaks, all medium well, and so the chicken would not sit out at room temperature all day long, but they were too cheap to do it.
Fuck banks. They lie all the time. For example "18% APR" is really over 19.7% effective interest.
[QUOTE=Dickhead]What is so "drastic" about relocating to another country? Look at the EU (another reason CBGB's post is suspect); you have 20 countries with different languages, customs, cultures, and cuisines, and the people are all moving freely about. Look at Amsterdam. It's absurd to say they "don't accept foreigners there."
Why is relocating to another country such a big deal as compared to relocating to another state or another city? It's fucking easy if you do some research and preparation. I've lived in six countries in my life. Four of them I enjoyed more than living in the US. I bet I will live in at least five more countries before I die.
Don't know the language? Learn it. They won't let you work legally? Work illegally. Don't have any money saved up? Sell your house and your car and your stupid assed jet skis and ATVs.
How many people have ever robbed a bank? How many people have ever wanted to rob a bank? Well, one way to rob a bank is to default on your credit cards. Buy an RV with your credit cards. Stock it with food, clothing, and other supplies on your credit cards. Drive it into México and disappear.
FUCK Bush.
FUCK American cows.
FUCK the religious right.
FUCK anything that will stand still long enough.[/QUOTE]
I lived in Europe for nearly, a year, I didn't think that I was free to move about in any way. In most European countries you have to register your address and purpose of stay(if more than 3 months) with the local police department. One of the below posters mentioned that Europeans carry national ID cards and can be arrested by police without probable cause and for merely their appearance. I talked to locals, especially immigrants(who are pressured to 'assimiliate') who feel very ostracized and left on the periphery of society. The economic situation in Europe is absolutely terrible, most European countries have 10+% unemployment, Germany has 12.6%(some regions of the country have joblessness as high as 30%) and it is considered to be the richest country with the best standard of living in Europe. What good is it to go to a country where even the local people can't find a job?
Honestly its better to take off for a year, find your girl, charm the hell out of her and bring her back home to some small town. I think if you a bring a foreign women to a big city in America, the glamour and lights might change her, if you go someplace more low key it might be different.
CBGB,
Try looking at your last post from the perspective of an immigrant to the US.
Not expected to assimilate? Having to register? ever heard those PSA´s on the radio? All Immigrants must register etc?
30% unemployment, granted in some cases, but with free medical care and basic social services in most countries.
Cops being more tuned in to "shady types" is a worldwide fact, try it sometime with a southern Sheriff!
Hey, do whatever you want, but I suggest a US citizen will have an easier time all-around than would a non-Us citizen emigrating to the States.
...and to keep things topical, my first wife was ´murican, the second European. Guess which one is better. ;)
cheers,
Sporadic
Hey gents!
I've been reading the recent subject matter and I find it very intriguing. I think all of you (especially you, ChochaMonger) should purchase and read the book by J.J. Luna titled: "How to be Invisible". The stuff is ALL legal and will keep you below the radar of the constabulary and the government WHEREVER you may reside. Many of the tactics laid out are those that I myself will employ in the not too distant future when I am able to do so. The book was written BEFORE 9/11 BUT this guy has survived and PROSPERED "underground" in a society that was even MORE repressive than today's "DubyaLand".
Heh, looks as if this discussion on expatriates has taken on a life of its' own. I was tempted to comment on how we might be getting a bit off subject, but when you think about it this really isn't that far off topic; after all, why wouldn't any man consider moving elsewhere when trapped in a nation of self-centered, manipulative, and sometimes emasculating little trolls masquerading as "women"? Perhaps this discussion actually deserves its own forum after all?
I don't know if this expatriation thing is right for [u]everyone[/u], but admit it - it's probably crossed your mind at least once in your lifetime :)
I'm gonna do it for sure.
My plan is to save up as much as it takes. Then I want to have one house here and another one in my country of choice. Then I'll live a 6 month 50/50 split btw the two.
That way one can get the benefits of both, enjoy good weather all year 'round without missing out or getting homesick.
Just in case you guys think this sounds too expensive, remember that in many countires it cost maybe a grand a month to live like a king. That will pay for the airfare. In fact, I'll actually need LESS money to retire..... even factoring in the extra $$$ for a second house.
Rock
Smut,
I usually don't post stuff like this since I truly believe that most of Mexico, including Mexico City is SAFER than my own neighborhood. After all, the US is one of the most violent countries on earth and my area is worse than most. But this post from the TJ board seems relevant.
And if you live somewhere but don't work there, well the little problem of supporting yourself rears it's ugly head. I am a long time advocate of earning your money in the US and retiring or living part-time abroad and have done so in various countries - Spain, Mexico. But packing it in early to move and live in most foreign locales is usually an economic mistake IMHO.
As to getting back to the topic of American Women, I also am a big supporter of the gals here in the US of A. Too often you guys compare having a marriage or LT relationship of equals here in the US with some 18 yo Latina SW without shoes who you met on a weekend vacation and blew you for an ice cream cone. Apples and oranges. Until you've had some reasonable LT relationship with a professional Mexican or Argentinian woman, you simply can't make any meaningful comparisons. I've dated several upper class Mexican women - lawyer, college professor, store owner, etc - and believe me, they were very conservative and wanted much the same things as Am. women. In Argentina, I found the ladies to be surprisingly status concious and very concerned with appearances - especially yours. Same thing in Spain. Yes, the street pussy is better and cheaper but the comparison ends there. And looking over my lifelong list of conquests, I must confess that the best lover's I have known were all Americans. And one of them was other here last night . . . Thank God. Have Fun, -P
_______________________________________________
--Tijuana Awash in Wave of Violent Crime
The slaying of a police official Saturday is the latest in the region's string of killings, many targeting wealthy businessmen.
By Richard Marosi
Times Staff Writer
May 22, 2005
TIJUANA — The exploits of the Comando Negro, or Black Commandos, are part of a dark season of violence that has set new standards for brazenness and frequency in this crime-weary city
Fueled in part by warring drug cartels, bodies in recent months have been turning up almost daily in empty lots, ravines and streets. Many victims were mangled by torture, their heads wrapped in tape. Some bodies have been dissolved in tubs of acid. One body, the son of a local magistrate, was missing its right hand.
Homicides in Tijuana totaled 163 in the first four months of this year, compared with 92 in the same period last year — a 77% increase.. In April, 55 homicides, a monthly record, were committed, police said. Los Angeles, by comparison, a city more than two times larger, had 36 homicides in April.
Tijuana's crime surge is part of a wave plaguing many Mexican border cities. Crime in the Tijuana metropolitan area, Shirk said, has reached unprecedented heights. "This is probably the most bloody period of Tijuana's history," he said.
Crime waves are nothing new in this sprawling border metropolis. Previous surges in violence have claimed the lives of politicians, high-ranking police officials and prosecutors. But some recent incidents have spilled into public places in upscale neighborhoods that in the past had been mostly free of violent crime.
Prokofiev,
You said that we were "comparing apples and oranges" when talking about US women versus Latinas. Then you went on to state that several high-class mexican women that you dated wanted similar things to north american women. I'm gonna make one assumption here... and will take it for granted that these were fairly attractive, professional type women.
The thing is, you actually got to go out with them in the first place! So many women here are homely, average, or out of shape. So many of the pretty ones are already taken. The ones that aren't frequently turn out to be lesbians, man-hating or just plain loaded down with so much emotional baggage from past relationships that they aren't worth the time and effort it takes to get to the fun part.
Sure, you can't just expect to get laid right off the bat with an upper class hispanic woman. But at least you have a decent chance of finding a good one who will like you.
Rock
Rock Dog, thanks for taking the words from my mouth :).
Prokofiev (sorry about getting your name wrong the first time), none of this is really news to me - remember, I lived there for five years. While there is truth to what you say (I've even seen it myself), the dating scene still tops what I'm experiencing back in my home territory. And no, I'm not necessarily talking about street girls. Like I mentioned earlier this isn't everyones' cup of tea; it's just something that worked for [u]me[/u]. Doesn't mean it's the ultimate solution. My fault for not clarifying that earlier, but I'm sure you know what I'm saying anyway.
Besides, there were other reasons I preferred life south of the border; I love the culture, and that city seems to have a certain [u]energy[/u] flowing through it, even during the weeknights. I really enjoyed myself there.
But you do bring up some [u]excellent[/u] points for one to consider before taking the plunge.
prokofiev and i have never met but we were in argentina at the same time, banging the same hooker on basically alternating nights. now [b]she[/b] sure as hell wasn't status conscious or concerned with appearances. i dated a lawyer down here and she raped me on our first date. i met another young lady, 19 years old and from an upper class family. it took me two coffee dates and showing her how i worked over the internet to get into her pants.
so obviously my argentinean experience was a lot different than his, probably because he is more of a classical violinist while i am just a fucking dickhead. either way it sure beats the us of a. my best lovers have all been latinas. i happen to know where pk lives and i think the women there are probably way above average by us standards but the weather there sucks. here we have a nice four season climate and more women than you can shake a stick at.
but don't forget about the snakes and the malaria here. leprosy too. stay away.
Thank you for your recommendation of that book Sinanju Master. It seems that it has quite a bit of useful information for guys in my situation. I will acquire a copy and study it deligently.
"As to getting back to the topic of American Women, I also am a big supporter of the gals here in the US of A." Prokofiev, I can't blame you for feeling that way. Hell, today I got the best BBBJ of my young life from a hot blond all American girl. She sucked my dick like a candy cane! She didn't touch it with her teeth even when the truck hit a curb and lurched wildly sending my shaft deep into her larynx. When my volcano blew its dome, she didn't try to back off as my scalding load blasted her tonsils. The best thing about this meaningful life experience was that it only cost me $25. It seems that when American women want or need money really badly they can surprise you and step up to the plate. When the going gets tough, the tough get blowing. The best part is that I really didn't think that she would go for it when she was told what I wanted in return for my kindness. Anyway, American girls do have their purpose in life just as long as things are kept in perspective. ;)
My two cents on professional Latina women is that it is true that they are concerned about appearances in their community. However, this can be misleading if taken out of context. These women may ask you to dress or behave conservatively in public but in private they will screw your brains out while begging you fuck them in the most inappropriate manner. One particular woman comes to mind now. She had a very serious face and though she was very beautiful it made one hesitant to approach her. After some time of enduring reproaches from her for my vulgar language I finally got into her pants one night. She hadn't had a shafting in a while and she was hot and explosive. Later she confided in me that she was wet and craving for cock but had to behave conservatively since no one in the community knew that she was dating me. Apparently, once she introduced me as her boyfriend her colleagues in the neighborhood understood my extremely late comings and goings. :)
"I happen to know where PK lives and I think the women there are probably way above average by US standards"
Well, I live in New Orleans and if you mean prettier, that's a long shot. But the women are probably more friendly and more drunk and the tourists are always looking to get into trouble.
Still, I would prefer to think that my luck with American women has something to do with ME . . . Perhaps not.
As to María, she dropped out of school at 13 to be a maid. As a broke single mom without education, I wouldn't consider her a valid comparison to American Women in general. And we WERE paying her $money and could both be her father. A sweet girl who gives great head and then washes the dishes, but I can't say I learned much about Argentinian women from her. What you learn is that prostitution is legal in much of the world and the girls will work a lot cheaper. With that, we have no arguement.
The point that American women are crap has been made thousands of times. That is a simple deduction, but getting to move abroad, particularly in this day where there is a lot economic slowdown around the world is an issue.
". . .The thing is, you actually got to go out with them in the first place! So many of the pretty ones are already taken. The ones that aren't frequently turn out to be lesbians, man-hating or just plain loaded down with so much emotional baggage . . ."
Well, yeah you have to be able to get a date to begin with, that's a given. And the pretty ones are taken? Usually works out that way. Taken by whom? By other guys that they would prefer to be with. And I suppose the definition of a man-hating lesbian is that she won't sleep with YOU.
Look, if you can't score a date in the US you are not going to be a chick magnet in London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona . . . or even Buenos Aires or Mexico. Yes, you will get laid if you bring some extra cash and not very much is required. Most of the guys I met or have knowledge of down in BA are 40-65 and looking to bang a cute 18-25 y/o prostitute. Can't blame them. Me too. But most can't even communicate on a basic level with the girls and sure the hell aren't getting to 1st base without cold hard cash. The fantasy of any kind of mutual relationship with these women is just that - total fantasy. It is a job to them and they do it very well. But getting a great $25 blow job in BA or Thailand doesn't say shit about the American wife(s) who divorced you back in the US. Try bringing your little toy back home. A Russian bride, or Chinese immigrant, or Mexican hottie with 3 kids - it usually ends up the same, except she can't read . . .
Peace, -P
Well PK I don't agree with you. Perhaps it is the sheer economic differential but [b]regular professional women who are not hookers[/b] are much easier to get dates with down here as compared to the United States, at least for me. It is as if when I ask an American woman out, her attitude is "Why?" whereas here their attitude is "Why not?"
I'm certainly open to the possibility this has less to do with me and more to do with the fact that my income is in the 90th percentile here vs. the 30th percentile there, but that in and of itself says much about what American women are looking for. Here a woman needs a man to achieve economic security in many cases. In the US that is not the case but they are still looking for a guy with money.
Then again, it might also have something to do with the fact that out of every 100 American women I meet, I would want to go out with maybe 5 of them, whereas here out of every 100 I would want to go out with maybe 35 of them. Of course usually I don't bother and just fuck hookers but it's a nice option to have.
Maybe tonight I will fuck María's sister. She's not lactating any more.
[QUOTE=Prokofiev]". . .
Look, if you can't score a date in the US you are not going to be a chick magnet in London, Paris, Madrid, Barcelona . . . or even Buenos Aires or Mexico.
[/QUOTE]
I strongly disagree, women around the world have different attitudes and different tastes, something that maybe desirable to one group of people, may not be so to others. When I go abroad, I find it easier to build rapport with local women, the quality of which is remarkably better than the US. I have a lot of friends who live abroad, one of them is in Sweden, and hooks up with 9+ gorgeous blondes that wouldn't give him the time of day back home. He's a decent looking guy but not with a lot of money, Swedish women don't tend to be as materialistic as American women, so he is able to get women on his own merits. Money is a big thing with American women, the best looking American women almost always go for guys with money. In other countries, other factors are more important, looks, personality, etc..
I think someone who goes to a country where he is 'exotic' will have an easy time hooking up with women simply for the mere fact that he is perceived to be different. Someone could be the artiste in Paris but a shithead in New York.
Dickhead is right, I've never once asked an Argintine out on a date, dinner movie etc. that they didn't say yes. I didn't always hit it out of the park but they always let me up to bat. I agree 100% that their attitude is "why not" verses the "why?" here in sex prison.
Oh yes, in keeping with the thread, American women suck.
That is an great comparison of the AW's attitude to that of her overseas sister. The single word "why" effectively encapsulates many of the opinions that American women hold about themselves, while "why not" accurately reflects the more easygoing (and inherently more feminine) attitudes of women abroad.
I've been working on a Grand Unified Theory concerning American Women, and I believe that I'm getting pretty close. Here's a sample:
American women today truly believe that one of the primary reasons that men exist is to boost their self-esteem. Only by rejecting men's advances, criticizing their opinions and beliefs, and in general reminding men that they are no longer needed in this society can they truly feel good about themselves.
Why do you think they get all dressed up on Saturday night and go out to the club in packs of four skirts to a table? To dance, drink and be merry, and shoot down guys all night long, of course. Certainly, if there happens to be any thugs in the house, recently released from prison or otherwise, at the club that night, she'll probably go home with one of them and let him come on her face after fucking her up the ass. But, hopefully, there will be plenty of regular, average, decent guys there that she can shoot down instead in order to make her feel good about herself.
Now, mind you, considering the sorry state of most women's self-esteem these days, being so responsible for a woman's well being is a pretty tall order. It's even worse for a man in a relationship. The average man must shoulder a tremendous amount of abuse before the woman he's with even begins to start feeling as good about herself as Oprah tells her she should feel everday. (Her "Spirit" I believe Oprah calls it.) You see, male-female relationships in America today have become a zero-sum game. Benefits for one party can only come at the expense of the other. Don't ask me why, though, because I haven't figured that part out yet. Maybe it has something to do with this creeping commercialism that's infesting all of modern life. I don't know.
P: Yet again, you sum things up beautifully. These guys are going out looking for a good time on their terms and they object that women do the same, like fucking a bit of rough just out of the State Pen. Sometimes, many times, I have been that bit of rough and I have made the best out of it:D
Guys,
You are not going to believe this. I have met the girl of my dreams and she is an American Woman. I just met her yesterday but we are madly in love. She has taught me the error of my misogynistic ways. I always approached a relationship from the standpoint of what I would get out of it. She has taught me that this is terribly wrong! A sustainable relationship should be based on a partnership of equals who engage in sharing, learning and loving together. She helped to open up my heart to all the possibilities of love right after we moved all my money to a joint checking account! We're getting married next week!
I'll say it's about time cupid took an interest in a good little boy like
Long J Longstroker
Take care guys! I'll probably be too busy fucking my wife to post here anymore. She told me I can have sex with her whenever I want after we're married!
American women can have as much fun as they want on their terms as long as it's not at my financial or mental expense. I will surely not be in line to go up to them in a bar or club only to be shot down for the sake of entertainment. Neither will I buy them drinks with the hope of being acknowledeged as a supplicating fool.
I have no problem with them fucking thugs. I have reaped benefits from this phenomenon when I have been mistaken for one at some time or another. The problem is that they get drunk on liquor paid for by the decent guys so they can have an excuse for fucking the thug when they see their friends then next day. It's the hypocrisy that annoys men when these same women try to convince them that they want a nice guy. What they want is a nice (stupid) guy to finance their fun.
Girls can have fun as long as they're not looking for someone in whom they have no interest to finance that fun. I don't think that women would be thrilled if men got together in a group dressed with expensive suits and flashing wallets stuffed to the seams with hundred dollar bills for the sole purpose of attracting decent women and then blowing them off for laughs, especially if at the end of the night the guys chose the roughest looking bar-fly to go home with.
I realized what this little game was about a long time ago so I only go to bars here in the US to get sauced with drinks that I can't mix myself. The pack of she-wolves in the corner look mighty thirsty. Maybe, some sheep will come along and help them slake their thirst.
After a year and a half out of the US, I would not [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in their mouths if their teeth were on fire. This is only my opinion and relates to them as sex partners only. They can be decent as friends, in situations where they don't have your balls in their hands.
[quote=Chocha Monger]I realized what this little game was about a long time ago...[/quote]
Chocha Monger,
Your last post sounds disturbingly familiar to me. Back when I was in the San Diego/Tijuana area there used to be a nightclub just outside the Navy base called the "Trophy Lounge" (anybody here ever heard of it?). This place was known for being a notorious "meet market" for Filipina wives and their friends, and most young wannabe studs figured they could get a easy lay there (I should know - I was one of those wannabes).
Anyways, I was talking with a close female friend there one night and she broke the game down for me like this: a lot of the girls there, before the night is over, already have three guys picked out - one to buy them drinks, one to take them to breakfast after the club, and one they actually intend to fuck. I didn't believe her until, at her behest, I started looking around; it was fucking incredible! These young horny guys were getting played [u]big-time[/u], and in exactly the way she described!!! You'd see them dancing or sitting at a table with a couple of guys, and leaving the club with someone entirely different. Later on, just as she predicted, you'd see them leave the restaurant with a [u]third[/u] guy. It wouldn't have been such a big deal were it not for the fact that I saw this same game being played by (what seemed to be) half the females in the club (or that a large number of the female patrons were Navy wives whose husbands were at sea). I couldn't believe I often fell for the same shit myself :) !
My eyes were rudely opened that night, and 10 years later I still haven't forgotten that lesson. Seems that men aren't the only pigs.
I haven't been to the US much in the past 5 years, as far as mongering is concerned, the US is a waste of time. Even if you have money, the pickings are slim, its better to go either north of the border to Canada or South to Mexico. Personally, crossing from the Northeast US into Quebec Canada there is a big difference in the overall attitude of French Canadian women compared to their US counterparts, there's also a big difference in their outward appearance, walk down a street in Montreal during the summer and you will be amazed, and this little pussy paradise is only a few hour drive away from the States. As far as my earnings are concerned, I wasn't earning much in the US, and making an average income in Australia, yet in the latter I get more rapport with women, and women don't ask me how much I make or what I do for a living, like what happens in the US. One Australian woman I knew even said most Australian girls don't care to be rich or care about money, that comment sold me on staying in Oz. I wanted to live in a country with better women than the US but also wanted to live in a place where I could drink the water and live in a relatively free society. I was considering a western European country and spent some time there but realized, that it is difficult for a foriegner to migrate there so the choice came down to Quebec Canada or Australia, I picked Australia for its near perfect climate.
You can drink the water here in Buenos Aires. I drink several liters of it every day. Also the toilet situation is much better than in Europe although not as good as in Australia which may have the best toilets in the world.
When I told one favorita that there are no bidets in the US, she asked, "Then how do American women wash their pussies?" and I have no answer to that. I don't recall seeing bidets in Australia either but it's been a while.
Furthermore Buenos Aires has the best ice cream in the world. But stay away anyhow because of the many huge, poisonous snakes and the fact that you can get ten years in prison for patronizing a prostitute.
I wasn't specifically referring to Argentina but other places that are popular for mongering(Brazil, Thailand, Russia, etc). I have not been to Argentina specifically, I actually know an Argentinian woman who lives in Australia, from her accounts its supposed to be very modern and resembles a European country more than one in South America. Australian employers grant their workers between 5 to as many as 8 weeks of vacation a year, so I get plenty of opportunity to visit many places. Traveling abroad isn't as expensive as most people think, if you try to stick to more modest accomodations, food, etc. you can do a lot with a little.
Anyone who lives in the Northeast US should visit Montreal for a weekend, even though its just across the border, the women there are on a completely different wavelength compared to their counterparts to the south. Its such a weird experience that a place so close to home could be so different.
Most women wash their pussies with Douche solutions in the US and other anglo countries, that's why they don't use bidets. I went to Germany, German women have the cleanest undercarriages around, almost always shaven, and they don't use bidets.
It's a dream job - a high-level position in Bangkok with an interesting company and an expatriate's salary. A beautiful, company-subsidised apartment that takes up one floor of a luxury building. A maid, a car and a driver on call 24 hours a day.
But for Julie Sleva, a Canadian citizen who is an executive with French cosmetics firm L'Oreal, the dream becomes hollow when she leaves her office. Although young and attractive, Sleva lives the often lonely life of a Western female expat professional in a culture where men rule - a life with no serious relationships and few dates. "Outside of the office, it's tough," thirtysomething Sleva says.
For single Western men, Asia can be a paradise of exotic, beautiful women more than willing to pamper them and inflate their egos. The perks of an expat life - cheap maids, company-paid drivers and members-only clubs - relieve married couples of many of life's daily hassles, including the chores of child-rearing.
But for single Western caucasian women like Sleva, it's a different story. Accomplishments in the office are often overshadowed by solitary private lives, and even the most casual Saturday night date with a man is a distant memory. Many such women feel their chances of having relationships are negligible while they are in Asia.
For Sleva, whose marriage to a Canadian man ended seven years ago, it is a constant frustration. Although she's happy to date both Thai men and foreigners, she says "you never see Thai men with expat women, and expat men are either married, gay or have a young Thai girl hanging on to their arm. You sit in a car near Soi Nana [a popular night-time entertainment district] and you can't believe what walks out of that place - the ugliest, grossest men with beautiful Thai women. It's so easy for the Western man."
Sleva's experience is far from unusual. Many other expatriate women I meet agree with her.
Yet the subject is taboo. Beyond the fact that it is a deeply personal, often painful element of life for women such as Sleva, discussing it opens up a minefield of sexual and racial stereotypes.
In many cases, the stereotypes are accurate, but not always. Some Western men in Asia meet and marry smart or high-powered Asian women - or overseas-born Asian women who are far more interested in succeeding in their careers than in indulging their husband's every whim.
Some Western women are happy to be out of the dating game and in a world where they - like their workaholic male counterparts - can devote themselves to climbing the corporate ladder with more visibility than they might enjoy in the United States or Europe.
The difficulties of many single white women in Asia are so widespread that counsellors are dealing with it every day.
"It takes a toll," says Melanie Bryan, a psychologist in Hong Kong. Bryan's client base is telling: half of them are are single Western women.
"People don't get a sense of self-worth from just one part of their lives," she notes. "Because a woman is a professional doesn't mean she lacks aspirations for a relationship as well, and quite often these aspirations have to be put on hold. I see women drink more. I definitely see them depressed. I had a new patient the other day who was just hammering away at herself. She felt washed-up at the age of 36."
Many of the women who agree with such views are willing to tell their stories only if their names aren't attached. Two women I meet, who have had various Asian postings for United Nations agencies, described their dual lives - great accomplishment and loneliness.
One of them, a US citizen, has given up hoping for a relationship or children, but the rewards of her work over more than a decade in Asia have made the sacrifices worthwhile. She wants to use her name, but says "this wouldn't go over well with the UN".
Another woman, an American who has worked in Asia for a consumer-products company for four years, says it didn't take her long to learn what awaited her. "Before they transferred me, my company sent me to Asia for a look-see," she says. "On the plane coming back I met a woman leaving Asia after eight years. After a few Jack Daniels, she told me, 'Honey, Asia is single-man heaven and single-woman hell'."
Forget dating, she says. "Most Western men are married, and if they're not married, they're playing around big time. And I don't look anything like those sweet little Thai women."
The loneliness is compounded by a lack of understanding in others. "Why do you not have a husband?" is a question taxi drivers, maids, shop assistants and even the most casual Asian acquaintances don't hesitate to throw at single women both Western and Asian.
"It certainly is difficult for a single Western career woman anywhere in Asia to have a fulfilling life," says David Bailey, a counsellor in Bangkok with Psychological Services International. "Most companies don't adequately prepare their executives for living overseas, and they assume they have their personal lives sorted out."
The contrast between the lives of single expat men and women in Asia is illustrated by Sleva's friend and co-executive, Martin Mirmand, who manages L'Oreal's luxury division. Like Sleva, Mirmand is young and attractive. But there the similarity ends. Mirmand, a 32-year-old Frenchman, says his expat existence is "very easy from a lifestyle point of view - the comforts of living, the opportunities to do things after work." "It's very easy to be a man in Thailand, that is for sure," he says.
By contrast, except for nights when she has a work function, Sleva's evenings are spent far removed from bars and nightclubs. She often stays home and eats a spicy Thai salad prepared by her maid.
Marisa Vidaurre, director of St John's Cathedral Counselling Services in Hong Kong, says Sleva's story is typical. "What they relate to me is that expat men are not interested in women who are going to be challenging," she says. "A lot more Asian women culturally find it easier to make men feel better about everything they do. It's hard for a man to resist when every word out of your mouth is a pearl of wisdom and every joke is funny."
So why don't these lonely women return to the West?
"Your career track can be quite rewarding in Asia," says Vidaurre. "When you go back, you are one among the many. It's harder to do special things."
Despite her loneliness, Sleva won't consider asking for a transfer back to Canada or the US. She still wants her satisfying job and to immerse herself in a new culture.
PZ: Jesus. At least post a source or a link to the article. I can Tell you Did not Write it YouRself.
CB: So do they carry these Douche solutions with them so they are handy after every time they take a dump? No, I didn't think so.
In general, I have found that American women excercise relatively poor hygiene, especially for the richest country in the world. Australian women are the world's cleanest ladies, followed by Italians, Spaniards, and Scandinavians, I have never noticed any pussy odor, body odor, smelly feet, or bad breath on an Australian woman, something that I have seen on many American ladies even those with money and "Class"(whatever that is).
Dickhead, let me guess, since Argentina is south of the equator like Australia, the seasons are in reverse, that would mean the warmest time of the year there would be from December to February? I was looking into some travel packages for Buenos Aires, the cost of a one month package in December is nearly double that of July and August, so I am guessing those are the colder months.
Sure, CB, that's right. The climate here is similar to what you might find in maybe coastal Virginia. Four distinct seasons, rainfall fairly evenly distributed, can be uncomfortably warm and humid in January particularly. Never snow in Buenos Aires (once per century) but can be bitingly cold a la San Francisco in July particularly. Right now it is late fall and today it was about 14 C but yesterday was 20 C. The night time temperature doesn't change all that much from the daytime temperature. Overall I give the climate a solid B. Best times to visit are thus spring and fall. Don't come in January cuz everyone including the hookers are on vacation. Me, I don't really like hot weather. You probably do if you think Australia has the perfect climate. I was there in Feb. and March and I thought it was fucking HOT. I prefer the winter here to the summer here. I lived in cold climates all my life in the US so if it is 5 degrees C here, about as cold as it normally gets, it doesn't bother me.
But really, if you can't speak Spanish, it wouldn't be worth the trip just for mongering. That is the honest truth and plus of course there are all the snakes. It is only moderately touristically interesting and if you have seen Europe even less so. If I lived in Australia and didn't speak Spanish, I wouldn't come here. English is much less widely spoken here than in say Barcelona. Plus the accent is so peculiar that it took me, a life long student of Spanish, about three days before I understood anyone. And, that was forearmed and forewarned about the differences by a native Argentinean friend.
And yeah, I've run into a lot more stinky pussies in the US than anywhere else. I remember one I took home from a bar and when I got it unwrapped i thought I had wandered into a carp farm. Here never, but I do run into some dog breath from time to time. I attribute that to a much higher percentage of smokers plus the lower social classes don't go to the dentist. I don't think flossing is too prevalent either. Socialized medicine here but not dental.
The best pussy in Buenos Aires tends to be Paraguayan in origin. Buenos Aires women have a bit of a superiority thing going. Women from the northern provinces such as Santiago del Estero, Salta, Misiones, and Tucumán are total fuck monsters.
Why don't you go to Perth and fuck RN?
DH, that VERY SAME ARTICLE was posted on this board quite a while back. I feel NOW as I did THEN: it's great to see an American Woman experiencing being on the short end of the stick in a foreign land when she has been so used to turning up her nose at well-meaning guys and/or crushing their egos for the sheer sport of it and to have a laugh with her pack at the poor's schmoe's expense. If they wanna be MEN by focusing ALL their drive on their career, so be it, but if they can't also have the ideal relationship that they demand (without wanting to meet a guy halfway) then they should shut the fuck up and bite the bullet and stay home on Saturday night with a hot Thai meal and the company of their maid...
I actually speak some Spanish since I took it in high school. The vacation package I was looking at included a month and half at the best hotel in Buenos Aires with roundtrip airfare, it looked cheaper than destinations in Europe. I figure I might get more "bang" for my buck. I also learned quite a bit of Deutsche in a *****house south of Dusseldorf. I was considering Argentina over Germany and the Czech Republic, my usual mongering favorites.
Oh hell for sure it is WAY cheaper here than in Europe. But a month and a half in a hotel? Why not rent an apartment? Much better. BTW what are they saying is the "best hotel in Buenos Aires?" But high school Spanish is unlikely to cut it because of what I said about the accent and vastly different grammar. Better than nothing, though, for sure.
And for a month and a half the length of the flight is of course a lot less relevant.
But we are far afield so PM me if you want more info. I have not been to the Czech Republic but I lived in Germany and it is so much better here that there is not even any comparison.
The skankest pussy that I have ever ran into was Swedish, and that was after she "freshened up"! It was shaved but apparently that didn't prevent it from smelling like rotting cod in the sweltering heat of summer. American pussy can be pretty raunchy too. Frankly, I think that they get a kick out of trying to make you eat their stinking snatches. Some of them will even be so bold as to tell you that you have to lick it before you stick it. Some guys do, and they end up with a bad yeast infestion in their oral cavity. Ever seen those guys with a white tongue and dragon's breath? Unhygienic pussy will do that shit to you.
I think that I am going to try some of that clean porteña pussy that Dickhead mentioned.
sorry , peeps... i forgot to post the reference to the article in # 2347
here it is =
[url]http://www.nomarriage.com/articleasia.html[/url]
that entire web site is worth reading if you've got an hour or so to kill
start here =
[url]http://www.nomarriage.com/[/url]
there's several good links given , too , one of which helps prove one of psyberzombie's laws , to wit :
[i]" free sex is the most expensive kind " [/i]
if you have a wife or girl·friend , or are in·to picking up 'amatuers' , here's a calculator to help you figure out exactly how much that 'free' sex is actually costing you =
[url]http://www.costofsex.com/[/url]
I have found no way to predict the clean ones from the unclean ones.
The "shankest" one I can remember was an Argentine girl. I was dating her; she was very meticulous about her appearance and everything else as most argentinas are, from a relatively wealthy family, etc...My entire apartment stank, believe me my mouth never came within 4 feet of it. On the other hand, Ive been with nasty *****s that I would expect to not be so clean but were fresh as a rose. I have seen no patterns travelling around the world either.
Hey fellas,
I was watching the news & they were talking about some woman who abandoned her children so she could run errands. As sad as that is, I wasn’t disturbed by her actions (although the fact that I have become so used to hearing about women abandoning their children for long periods of time should be disturbing). What did disturbed me was finding out that if a woman in SE Florida decides that she no longer wants to be a mother, she can drop off her infant at any fire station – no questions asked! Apparently, there are baby drop-offs set up at the fire stations to make it easier for women to leave their children.
Isn’t it amazing that for all of the rhetoric we hear about how MEN need to shoulder more of the burden of child rearing within the home, and child support outside of the home, our society has made it so easy for women to potentially discard every responsibility they have, no matter how basic?
One time I talked to an American woman who claimed that she didn't like superficial people who are obssesed with money. The obesession with money is one of the biggest problems with American women. She said she would rather do something she loved than do something that made her rich. I asked her if she saw two men, one in a suit, the other in a fast food uniform, which one would be more attractive. She said the one in the suit because the one in the fast food uniform is not ambitious enough. I asked her "What if the fast food worker liked what he did?" She totally contradicted herself, its this kind of bullshit I can't stand with American women.
I asked her if she saw two men, one in a suit, the other in a fast food uniform, which one would be more attractive. She said the one in the suit because the one in the fast food uniform is not ambitious enough.[/QUOTE]Funny you should use the fast food employee as an example because I have a friend whose family owns a couple of Burger Kings. He told me a story about when a nice looking woman came into his restaurant & he hit on her, but she blew him off because she could not bring herself to date a "burger-flipper".
He informed her that he was filling in for someone else who called in sick, & that he owned this & another BK restaurant in the area. She responded with this shocked look on her face, "Oh, you own these?!"
Well, once he corrected her misconception about his appearance she magically became interested - very interested. Ironically, my friend became disinterested, blew her off & returned to work. I was so proud of him (keep in mind though that he did have a girlfriend, which probably made blowing the witch off easier to swallow).
Oh, I almost forgot: American women suck!
I LOVE that story! I love it ESPECIALLY because of the fact that I always hear women spew bullshit about how fair they are when considering whether or not they will give a guy a chance/he time of day. If they didn't engage in this outlandish doublespeak, I wouldn't have any problem with their shallowness. It DOUBLY pisses me off when they get indignant after you expose them for the fork-tongued liars they are. I'm not employing a double standard here, 'cos yes, guys are shallow too. BUT we don't lie about it and EXPECT women to believe it hook, line and sinker...
I think this is a good idea. Much better than beating the baby to death. Baby battering is a widespread problem, as is dumping newborns in the nearest river. I support anything, however imperfect, that reduces such sad things.
Do you think you guys can go a week without attacking AW. You go on about them judging by appearances (no burger flippers please). Yet, most of the hits on this site entail looking at photos of women's genitals. In the age of uncertainty we live in, when old Freddy Flinstone type structures are vanishing (long term marriages etc), women will always choose the money and keep an option to walk. Wouldn't you?
If you cannot do the 12 steps to like AW, I suggest you read the wise words of Prokofiev, our wisest sage. Either that, or go to Haiti and do some voodoo magic on the AW you hate.
Your friend
Domino
About 5 years ago, I fell hard for this girl I briefly dated. She subsequently left me for this guy who was basically an unmotivated-living with his parents-partyboy-loser with a near room termperature IQ (and per popular rumor, a little dick). They became serious, and eventually got engaged, and married. At the time, I was quite distressed about the fact that the girl picked this useless lump of crap over me.
I now realize that in actuality, I was the winner of that little escapade. Five years later, I still have my freedom, and damn few financial obligations (It sure is fun to screw hot European chicks isn't it?). He however is saddled with a screaming infant, a world class mental b-tch of a ball and chain (I overlooked this at the time because at 22 she was hot and sexy) who isn't getting any better looking, and will, I am fairly certain, someday take him to the cleaners. In the meantime, they she already has him leveraged to the edge-I saw her driving around town in an SUV that had to cost a year of his income.
Regarding Domino's last post, I view this forum not so much as bashing American Women (as much as they may deserve it), but a support group (sorry to break "huggy touchy") for having the courage to go against the bull#hit bag of goods that American Society overwhelmingly tries to hang on us, much to our detriment.
Domino,
I agree that the baby drop-off sites are the lesser of two evils. My problem is not with the baby drop-offs as much as it is with our apathy toward negative female behavior.
For example, if a man argues with his wife, he needs anger management to properly deal with his emotional problems to ensure that he never behaves that way again. Will baby drop-offs help women deal with the problems which are causing them to discard their children?
We have a hard time telling women when they need to shape up. When a woman commits an abominable act, well, she’s suffering from post partum depression, PMS, battered wife syndrome, low self esteem, or some other psychological disorder which absolves her from her actions.
Remember the 2 ladies who drowned their kids? One lady lived in SC (Susan Smith) & there was another who drowned 5 kids in Tx. The women’s rights groups, along with the rest of the world, were so ready to support these murderers, never once referring to them as animals or demons.
Now, contrast those attitudes with the way the media demonized Scott Peterson. Now, I’m not defending Scott! I do wonder, however, if our society would have been so willing to entertain the notion that Scott may have been suffering from some psychological disorder?
Male executives who lie, cheat & steal are viewed negatively according to public opinion, whereas Martha Stewart is viewed as a victim (but only Martha, her male co-defendant was not viewed as a victim).
It just seems to me that our society is all too ready to correct men in an effort to eradicate the undesirable male behavior, while at the same time all too ready to explain & excuse undesirable female behavior.
As far as going a week without attacking AW, I doubt that you can expect that to occur in a forum dedicated to discussing AW any more than you could expect to go a week without discussing football in a forum dedicated to football. Besides, research says that men do not express themselves enough; so I say, MEN - EXPRESS YOURSELVES.
And Domino, I hope you continue to express yourself, too. It is good to consider differing opinions. Thanks for responding to my post.
-ILAS
P.S. American women suck - IMO
Well American women have the global media and Hollywood behind them, our rants are nothing compared to what is presented on the big web portals and tv screens around the planet. People around the world have this image that a typical American woman looks like Angelina Jolie or Cindy Crawford. I used to live in New York, and most of the women I saw were nowhere near that level. In fact, a few times traveling around a small town in Northern Europe, I saw far more classic examples of beautiful women, many of whom were just normal working class women doing rather normal jobs( cashiers, cleaning ladies, bank tellers, etc.). American women are crap compared to what I have seen abroad, that is THE TRUTH, AND I AM GOING TO TELL IT LIKE IT IS!!!
I bash American Women because they deserve some of the same medicine they feed US. American Women can get away with MUCH MORE than American Men can.
Examples: Mary Kay Letourneau, the teacher who engaged in sex with a SIXTH GRADER and only got seven(?) years in prison. If the situation were REVERSED and she were a MAN, and the sixth grader were a GIRL, the guy would have been buried so far UNDERNEATH the god-damn jail that his very existence would have been forgotten save for his family and prison officials.
Scott Petersen; guy murders wife (and in the process, his unborn child) and gets a free lethal injection, courtesy of the State. Abominable? Damn straight! Fair treatment for a convicted murderer? Hm... Susan Smith DROWNS ALL OF HER CHILDREN (not ADULTS, DEFENSELESS CHILDREN) and gets what, LIFE? That and some counseling?
These are but TWO shining examples of how we have all been hoodwinked and continue to do so. Give American Women a fair chance? They RUNNING THE GOD-DAMN SHOW!
If you wanted something from someone (very badly) and the only way you could get it on a regular basis was to jump through hoops and in the process, make a fool of yourself and eventually have an eroded sense of self-worth, would you continue to go through with it, or would you wise up and get it from someone who acted as if they had common sense and decency instead of constantly engaging in a power play to metaphorically SUBJUGATE you? To those of you who are of the masochistic way of thinking, so be it. It takes all kinds to make a world. I simply REFUSE to waste my time and effort on such insanity. I (grudgingly) admire DH and CBGB, 'cos they got fed up and too the step that I have yet to take. When the time comes, my path will be different from theirs (only slightly) but I will have made my declaration of rebellion.
linda lee smith has spent over 25 years in prison for the murder of her 2-year-old daughter, amy. although the parole board has declared her suitable for release six times since 1989, california’s state's governors have decreed otherwise. smith was convicted of second-degree murder in san luis obispo county in 1980 and sentenced to 15 years to life after she did not stop her boyfriend from fatally beating amy. whether smith participated in amy's abuse was hotly disputed at her trial. the prosecution argued that by not aggressively intervening, she condoned the violence; the defense argued that she got merciless beatings herself whenever she intervened.
in lake county, indiana, felicia gordon of gary, was charged with murder because she did not intervene after her boyfriend repeatedly hit, punched and kicked her son george, aged 7, to death in march 2005; her attorney, lemuel stigler, argued in vain that she stayed in another room during most of the incident because she was trying to protect her other son, a 1-year-old. arlene haines, of ulysses, pa., pleaded guilty to child endangerment because she didn't stop her boyfriend from fatally abusing her 2-year-old daughter, serena, in 2004. illinois prosecuted kathy cecil of wood river for the first-degree murder of her 2-year-old son, michael. she didn't participate in his fatal beating and had been repeatedly punched, choked and raped by her lover for months. cecil was sentenced to 35 years in jail.
.................
not all aw are on easy street. using trailer trash and celebrity examples are not the way to go. susan smith is not right in the head; scott petersen knew what he was doing and will be no great loss. all i can say is: read prokofiev.
There is a website solely dedicated to thrashing American women called americanwomensuck.com, its becoming a trend all over the web to use as a forum for telling what most American women are really like. I have been to places that have plenty of gorgeous women. One time in a brothel in Germany which was filled with about three dozen beautiful nude women, a customer asked me about American clubs, I told him no such clubs exist in the States, since prostitution is outright illegal in the US except in some parts of Nevada. I told him that escort services existed but would cost him ten times what he pays in Germany.
I live in Southern California, two hours away from Tijuana, Mexico where a lot of mongering takes place and what have you. I've been going down there frequently and not only to take care of business (if you know what I mean?? he.he.he.) but also to do some shopping and looking for alternatives to the tourist trap section of town while visiting there. I also buy a lot of health and natural foods-related products there for a fraction of the cost here in the U.S.
Anyway, I headed down there during this Memorial Day weekend, being careful to return on Sunday night in order to avoid the crazy traffic on holidays. After visiting the ZONA, I took a cab to the shopping center/mall called Plaza Rio Tijuana (I believe) and went about my shopping mission. Walking through the aisles of this one huge supermarket, I was able to talk to many of the young ladies who stand there giving information and answering questions if you had any. My first question to them (there were 4 in one spot) was if they earned commission, to which they replied in unison "NO". So this meant there was no intention on their part to sustain a conversation with you given that it made no difference to them whether you bought anything or not. So we engaged in small talk about the products I was buying but quickly and with no trouble moved into other, more interesting topics. I was able to get their phone numbers and emails without a problem. Given that it was Sunday afternoon and they had to work on Monday (no holiday in Mexico) they recommended I give them a call to go out on the following weekend instead.
Try doing that in sex prison. Nice, young, pretty and smart girls too. Just the conversation itself was worth feeling good about, the rest, let’s see what happens. The point I'm trying to make is that it is not the end of the world meeting a suitable lady oversees. This happened only a couple of miles (if that) from the border. It’s really amazing to run into a situation like this because, not being used to it or remotely even thinking about it ever occurring in sex prison, it gives one a sense of hope and opportunity: life exists outside of such confines.
domino:
i don’t understand why you feel the women in your examples should not have been punished. i was always under the presumption that if you were present during the commission of a crime, you are an accessory to the crime. hell, if you let someone in your home or car after he/she has committed a crime, you made be charged with aiding & abetting (whether you were a participant or not).
did any of these women bother to make a phone call to 911 when the men began beating their children? and why did these women stay with the men in the first place? the way your post reads gives me the impression that those relationships had a history of violence long before those children ended up dying. why did these women chose to stay in those relationships after the men exhibited violent behavior toward them?
you say susan smith is not right in the head. well, that is pretty obvious. i’d step out on a limb & say that any person, male or female, who can take another person’s life is not going to be right in the head.
and by saying that these women were not on easy street, you have just done the very thing that i complained about in my previous post by making excuses for aws. there are plenty of american men who are not on easy street, and for that matter there are plenty of people outside of the us who do not have a pot, nor a window. yet somehow everyone else seems capable of taking the bitter with the sweet, so why must we make special concessions for aws.
however, i do love to hear your opinions. isn’t free speech fun?! keep the posts coming guys.
-ilas
btw, american women suck!
Perhaps all hope is not lost guys. Earlier today I was watching MTV Hits at the higher end of the digital spectrum (a good way to stay current and vastly superior to regular MTV or even MTV2 in that only music videos are played 24-7, no reality TV crap or real world soap operas)
The beautiful Beyonce Knowles and her back-up singers Destiny's Child came on with their new music video, "Cater 2 U." I about fell out of my chair when I heard the lyrics. "I'm here to serve you?" What the fuck? How on earth did that lyric get through the NOW censors?
Could this be a new trend? Millions of American women respect and admire Beyonce. In the second verse, she makes the promise:
"When you come home late
Tap me on my shoulder, I’ll roll over"
My God, maybe there is hope for the future!
Sing it, Beyonce!
***********
Let me help you
Take off your shoes
Untie your shoe strings
Take off your cuff links
What you wanna eat boo?
Let me feed you
Let me run your bath water
Whatever you desire
I'll supply ya
Sing you a song
Turn the game on
I’ll brush your hair
Help you put your do-rag on
Want a foot rub
Want a manicure
Baby I’m yours
I wanna cater 2 u boy
Baby I’m happy your home
Let me hold you in my arms
I just want to take the stress away from you
Makin’ sure that I’m doing my part
Boy is there something you need me to do
If you want it, (I got it)
Say the word and (I will try it)
I know whatever I’m not full fillin’
another woman is willing
I’m gone fullfill you my body and spirit
I promise ya
I'll keep myself up
remain the same chick
you fell in love with
I'll keep it tight
I'll keep my figure right
I’ll keep my hair fixed
be rockin the hottest outfits
When you come home late
Tap me on my shoulder, I’ll roll over
Baby I heard you,
I’m here to serve you
this love you need
to give it is my joy
All I wanna do is cater to you boy
Besides probably there is other songs on her album boasting of how she dont need a man or about kicking em to the curb if they dont kiss her big booty. She seems to be pretty much a diva and doesnt seem to humble now. Maybe she'll do that stuff for Jay-Z or another mega rap star but for us mortals? Forget it!
I guess our differences here reflect other differences. I believe a woman of any nationality in an abused relationship is different from a calculated killer. Men often physically dominate women and I would pity any woman in such a relationship, as well as any kids that might be in the way of the man's wrath. I am not making excuses for them; I would imagine any mother killing her off spring would not "have a good day" but ymmv. Now Paris Hilton is on the news. You can keep her. I know many of you guys have been burned but, hey, shit happens. Rush Limbaugh is now on the radio:(
domino, do you really believe these women are not calculated killers?
with her 2 children sleeping in the back seat of the car, susan pushed the car into a lake where it bobbed for several minutes before sinking to the bottom, drowning her children. then to make matters worse, susan made up a story about some random black man coming along & carjacking her at gunpoint with her children in the back seat, gave the police a composite sketch of this alleged black man, pleaded on tv for the safe return of her children, & inspired a nationwide man-hunt for a person who did not exist regarding a crime that did not occur. if this isn’t a calculated killer, then what is? how are susan’s actions different from scott peterson’s? susan smith was single, divorced actually. there was mention that susan had had a boyfriend since her divorce, but he had broken up with her shortly before she committed the murders because he was not ready to be a father (or maybe the boyfriend just did not like susan anymore for other reasons & figured that he could get out of the relationship pain-free by saying i don’t want to be a daddy, not thinking that this chick would kill her kids to be with him). conclusion, susan does not have the abusive relationship excuse.
andrea yates of texas filled a bathtub with water, chased her 5 children around the house and, one by one, drowned them in the bathtub. if this isn’t a calculated killer, then what is? how are andrea’s actions different from scott peterson’s? she was married, but there was no mention of any abuse in her relationship. actually, she was portrayed as the quintessential soccer mom, and the day of the incident, andrea’s mother-in-law was due to come over to help with the children only an hour after andrea’s husband left to go to work. conclusion, andrea does not have the abusive relationship excuse.
like i explained in my earlier thread: my problem is not with the baby drop-offs as much as it is with our apathy toward negative female behavior… it just seems to me that our society is all too ready to correct men in an effort to eradicate the undesirable male behavior, while at the same time all too ready to explain & excuse undesirable female behavior (ilas post #2363). i find it funny that you refer to men as calculated killers, while women are merely not having a good day (domino post #2371). your statement fuels my argument regarding our society’s disregard for unacceptable – even criminal female behavior. i bet if you really tried, you could come up with a good explanation for louise woodward’s behavior. remember her, the british au pair working in massachusetts who killed the child she was watching in february 1997?
as far as the other women you used as examples, these women say that there was a history of abuse. whether these ladies’ stories concerning abuse are true, i don’t know. i do know that people will say anything & blame anyone if they believe it will save their own hide (ask anyone who has been through a divorce). but even if i were to give these ladies the benefit of the doubt, according to terry patton, the state's attorney in henry county, ill., "that's [domestic violence] not an excuse for standing by and letting someone beat your child to death,"! besides, each of these women had a trial of their peers, & their peers chose to reject their defense.
i know it sucks to be in a bad relationship, & most people (men & women) carry scars from those terrible experiences. i feel for every one of them, sincerely. however, we chose the relationships we are in. and just like any other circumstance we chose, when you are not pleased with your choice, chose again. you cannot let your previous choice be the crutch you use to justify every indefensible act you commit from then on. whether the act was abandoning the children, murdering the children, or standing by & watching someone else do the dirty work for them, these women have no excuse for what occurred, making them as calculating as adolph hitler, jeffrey dahmer, scott peterson, or any other man you could compare them to.
i’m having fun with this, aren’t you?
-ilas
and as you all know, american women suck!
Bringing Mr Hitler et al into it slants the argument somewhat. I have no problems with calculated killers, male or female, paying their tariff. I do not think the female cases we both brought up entirely fit that category. I guess I am on the wet side of the house which is fine by me. When I think of those women and what they have done, it just makes me sad. I do not regard them as calculated killers but as sad dysfunctionals in need of medical care.
Though I believe women get depressed and some of them do bad things, cops, crims and judges all tell me crime is largely a male preserve, just like violence.
I do not subscribe to the "choose" school of thought as one of the prosecutors you mention do. I believe the weak are easily led. I also believe many men use physical violence and the threat of physical violence to intimidate women and I believe the men in the cases I cited did.
Louise Woodward had her conviction reduced to involuntary manslaughter on appeal. She is a trained lawyer now but gave it up for dancing. I do not believe in hiring au pairs so yes I make mitigating circumstances.
I also believe it is personally damaging - though somewhat catharctic - for the regular posters here to ***** about the AW they have known. Usually when I am with women, I do the screwing. Guess the same goes for Mr Music to my ears, Comrade Prokofiev. With others, the mileage varies and thus this thread.
Yyou just used the “W” word – WEAK. I’m sure that AW would not appreciate being seen by you or our society as weak. Remember, this is the same gender that fought to be able to serve in combat in our US military (an issue that was revisited just a week or two ago). Women fought for decades to be seen as equal, opposing the notion that they are the weaker sex. Be careful, your sisters may turn on you for that one.
Now, there are more male convicted criminals in this country than female convicted criminals. The statistics show us that. The statistics also show us that there has been a steady increase in crimes committee by women, especially violent crimes. But that is not our point of contention. Our disagreement is in the fact that unacceptable male behavior is viewed abhorrently by society, whereas unacceptable female behavior is accepted by society.
You said, “Though I believe women get depressed and some of them do bad things, cops, crims and judges all tell me crime is largely a male preserve, just like violence” (Domino Post #2374). Now, I don’t think you are suggesting that we completely ignore female criminals until the statistics balance out, so the point of your statement must have been to justify women’s criminal behavior through depression. Domino, would you say that someone who commits suicide is depressed? Does it make it OK if a man kills his family, then commits suicide? Since he killed himself, he was obviously depressed. If the terrorists of 9/11 had a well documented history of depression, would that change your opinion of their suicide attack? Hitler committed suicide; he must have been depressed. I use Adolf Hitler not to slant the argument, but only to make the point that calculating is calculating, no matter who is committing the act.
Based on your theory, I should be able to excuse the August 2004 Soviet airline terrorist attack committed by the 2 women from Chechnya because they are weak, possibly dysfunctional, could be suffering from depression, or may have been involved with an overbearing husband/boyfriend (FYI, these two women were single & shared an apartment, so don’t try the post partum domestic abuse thingy with this one). Hey, does your theory also apply to lesbians; I’m sure there are some dysfunctional alternative relationships comprised of aggressive & overbearing lesbian lovers.
You believe that all women are inherently good, & if they behave badly, it is not their fault. Instead they are reacting to an unrelated experience which is manifesting in the woman’s behavior, no matter how outlandish the behavior. In other words, it isn’t Eve’s fault, the Devil made her do it!
Domino, there are evil women out there, just like there are evil men out there. So if it walks, swims, & quacks like a duck, I’m calling it a duck – even when the duck is an AW.
-ILAS
American women suck – I stand firm on that!
For further evidence that American women suck, live in a dream world, and have themselves way overrated, check out what this hag posted in the Argentinaprivate forum today. Note the capital M in "me." She wants $400 US just to meet for cocktails. In Buenos Aires! Next time do a little research, honey.
"Hi Gents!
I'm available for outcall in Bs. As. From June13 to July 1st . Sexy, intelligent, and sometimes naughty is the best way to describe myself.
A true gentleman that is generous and respects a woman is my ideal man. I specialize in repeat clients, if you see me you may get hooked, so be forewarned!
After a few moments with me, you'll realize that I'm very sensual, affectionate and completely down to earth. I cater exclusively to mature, professional gentlemen (40 years of age and older) who yearn for only the best and appreciate the finer things in life.
When you are ready for the ultimate in upscale, exclusive female companionship , just contact me .Please visit my site for more on Me.
[url]http://www.corporate-corner.com[/url]
Kisses,
Elizabeth"
Actual ad from a website "women seeking men"
Quote:
I am 21, working on a BA right now and work part time. Speak 3 languages fluently, dress stylist, 101 pounds- slim body, light brown eyes, long VERY dark hair with bangs, known to WOW places just by walking in. I'm confident because I feel confident and hold my weight. Picture will be sent only to serious inquiries: (YOU MUST SEND PHOTO AND PROOF OF IDENTITY AS WELL AS BIO/WILL BE KEPT EXTRICTLY CONFIDENTIAL-HOLD ME TO IT promise)
looking for:
Stylish/educated/wealthy/clean man
Who provides:
Allowance: 60k-90K
Gifts
Corvette (always had one till I severaly crashed mines last month)Black with Rims.
Manolos
Credit cards
Extremely sweet, baby face, with a voice, sensual, looking for my half :), you must be understanding, open minded, sexy, smart, outgoing and fun
and not cheap PLEASE
Unquote
You judge what she is.
I LOVE to see these ads. These dumb bitches are thinking that I'd pay serious coin just to be in their presence?? THIS is the American Woman at her most BRAZEN. The sad thing is that some guys FALL for this bullshit. I'm supposed to believe that her pussy (sex isn't even IMPLIED in some ads) is so magnificent that it could make me 18 again? Sadly, it is THIS attitude (too full of one's self) that is rampant in American Society where women are concerned. I understand that they are peddling a product, but they are no better than the conniving snake oil salesmen who promise all but deliver little if at all. I remember chatting with a friend (female) who basically said that she was worth AT LEAST a bottle of Cristal champagne (roughly $1600/bottle). I thought to myself: "Let's see, you're OVERWEIGHT, your face does NOT stand out in the crowd, and the clothes you wear show your large ass and your rolls"... I almost equated her to a used car salesman...
Gentlemen: Your latest posts concern common prostitutes, not American women per se. If A skank wants $400 to meet a moron for a few minutes, why criticize her? Remember there are no $400 skanks, only $400 mongers. Elizabeth's site sucks btw. Yet, I am sure she will get customers with her naked dogs and overall childish marketing angle.
Gentlemen: I wish you luck with your next American woman. Try home grown beef next time. You might learn to love it.
Homegrown beef on a platonic, friendly level and no bullshit games? Sure! On a romantic level where she is more experienced in said arena and will seek to get what she can while giving as little as is humanly possible while trying to drain me of my resources? Sorry, but I'm not a sucker. I'd rather have fire ants crawl into my shorts than to pledge my "undying love" to a woman who is ALWAYS seeking better pastures while I'm taking the leap to meet her more than halfway. And believe me, I HAVE had the unfortunate experience of fire ants crawling in my shorts! It's WAY more preferable than to be converted into a notch on an AW's lipstake case..... I'll PASS thank you
Fucking hilarious piece of satire about falling into the dreaded "Friend Zone."
[url]http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4122&n=3[/url]
Here is a typical 28 y o American woman's personals ad
Interestingly , the only things she says about herself is that she is lazy , bitchy , ugly , and does not like giving blow·jobs =
[i] " This is my ideal guy :
He has talent I can respect. Either he is a great artist or a musician with his own style or otherwise great at some craft. His talent doesn't follow the herd.
If he is not artistic than at least he enjoys the arts, music and books. If he has an interest in anything beyond mindless pop culture, video games and TV, that would be ideal. Not that any of that is too bad, but there is just so much more to life.
He has goals, not dreams. He strategizes on how he can realize his goals in light of whatever life has handed him as his fate.
He is an animal lover and has compassion for people.
He is financially solvent. He doesn't spend money he doesn't have and doesn't try to buy a woman's affection. He plans his livestyle to be uncomplicated and has common sense in regards to what is a wise investment or not.
He is not selfish and self-centered.
He likes his mom and female siblings and is nice to them.
He takes care of his emotional health as well as being conscious of his physical health.
He lives to travel and be spontaneous.
He is a one woman guy. He is not constantly searching for new ass. He's not an oral freak and wants to be with a girl who isn't into it either. He likes touching, kissing, giving and receiving massages. He knows where tha g-spot is.
He likes an independent lady who has her own interests, goals, and ideas and is supportive of her reaching them, as opposed to competing with her or taking no interest.
He wants to have a child. Not immediately, but he does see that in his future. He doesn't currently have any.
He's never been told by a girlfriend that he needs professional psychological help. If he has, he has gotten it and its been at least 5 years since he's gotten better.
He would rather do the right thing than try to get away with something.
He was not raised catholic.
He can cook and do his own laundry and doesn't expect his girlfriend to do it.
He believes in karma.
He listens to his inner voice and doesn't deny his real feelings. He can discuss issues and conflicts civily, even though a complete resolution may not come about.
He is not looking for a super model, but a real, normal person " [/i]
******************************************************
Dream on , Honey !!
Psyberhead: Interesting post. Can the board answer the following questions without sarcasm:
1. Does she want a dreamer (penniless musician, dope smoking Zen head; she seems to be big into this) or a worker bee? How great does one have to be to be a great musician. (If I played with Black Sabbath, would that do? How about Prokofiev?)
2. Is Samus Aran out? He is into video games but has lots of cash (not mentioned)., is into meditation etc. I don't know his policy on blow jobs but surely they could talk that through.
3. What kind of goals? Obviously getting into the Guinness Book of Records for fucking more ass than anyone else in history is out, but are these career or Zen goals?
4. What is the bottom line for wealth and do risky stocks and/or unethical cash flow sources count? Are Goodfellas in touch with their inner child out?
5. I like my mom but what if I have no female siblings? Do we have to like female siblings more than males? What if we are into wearing their clothes and watching Psycho?
6. Dickhead is a one woman cook able guy but he was raised Catholic. What percentage of US male adults were raised Catholic? What if one was raised a Satanist?
7. How important is it to be a human dildo? What if one does not believe in sex outside marriage?
8. What if the applicant can fool his shrinks into thinking he is not Freddy Krugar/Jason Voorhees?
9. What if he wants lots of children?
Interesting ad and lots of issues arising. She strikes me as a downwardly mobile, pseudo artistic, anal retentive type who is unsure of what she really wants. Not my type. More ads for objective analysis would help.
In some places around the world, about $50 will buy you a really good time with a dream type woman.
I've been there [the friend zone] before. Thanks for the link.
ILAS
The women placing those outrageous ads are seriously out of touch with reality. The one looking for a 60K-90K "allowance" obviously doesn't know that a man can get a nice house and excellent help for many years in Latin America for that kind of money.
American women need to wake up and face the harsh realities of globalization. Due to the high prices they place on their pussies they are facing the same faith as manufacturing jobs in the US. It is now cheaper to take a short trip on a long weekend to a foreign destination with better looking women who have nicer attitudes.
If you have to put out that kind of money for female companionship then you should not accept anything less than the best. Unfortunately, the domestic product can't compete with what is available overseas so increasingly consumers will vote with their dollars. That is the beauty of a free market economy in action.
I took a sociology class several years ago and learned about the "heirarchy of prostitution". The heirarchy goes rougly like this (no surprises) streetwalker, massage parlor type girl, call girl, "kept woman". The 60-90K girl was auditioning for a job as a "kept woman" who is basically a "piece on the side" for a wealthy, possibly married, possibly high profile executive or celebrity man (who may have a lifestyle that doesn't allow them to sneak off to BA. at least without bringing the wife along), who is "kept" in luxurious conditions. It does happen. Is that kind of money too much to pay for a vagina with an American Girl attached to it. ABSOLUTELY. However, from the perspective of a high profile wealthy guy what would you perfer-shelling out some cash, or a headline like "Major Fortune 500 Executive caught in call girl sting".
On another note, I happened today to meet a 50ish Russian Woman. WOW. I think that I could actually handle looking at that every day when I get to be 65 or so. The girls around where I live (the sticks), start looking dumpy around 28, or their illegitimate third baby, whichever comes first.
Pizza man/Skinhead: It is a bit of an overstatement to say I was raised Catholic. Originally I was baptized Protestant but my mother converted to Catholicism when I was four or five. My father was not Catholic. For a while they took turns and we would go to the Catholic church one week and the Protestant church the next. I did take my first communion which I refuse to capitalize and took maybe three years of catechism before getting thrown out for continually questioning the dogma. I believe I was eleven when I finally refused to go to church any more. I was never confirmed. I did sing in the choir for a while but got thrown out of that for hitting John Washalefsky over the head with a chair.
But I sure as hell don't need a women to cook for me or do my laundry. Shit down here I just drop my laundry off for 5.50 pesos a load, about two bucks, and I don't have to fold it. Women down here are amazed that I don't have a maid. One even asked me recently if my maid had any days available and I said, "What maid? I clean my own place. It is 40 square meters," and she was just amazed.
The men down here are such chauvinist pigs that just opening a car door for a woman or clearing the dishes off the table virtually guarantees animal sex afterwards.
1. OK, it look like Dickhead can apply to be a human dildo for this babe. Reading the ad, though, it looks advisable to bring rosary beads and an I love Oral Sex t shirt along to the first date.
2. I think one of the problems is a mismatch of expectations. The guys here all put the emphasis on money, power and goof looking women. The women want something less tangible.
3. I took a young Muslim babe out a few nights ago, doing my little bit for intenrational goodwill. She is liberated but from a very conservative Asian backwater. She too wants a gentle guy, someone in touch with his inner soul, who respects her etc. She got me.
4. I guess mutual distrust is also a bigger factor these days. There are certainly a lot of embittered folk out there. And not all that much demand for human dildos when all is said and done.
5. Why can't she stroke her own g spot anyway?
Women in general and with some exceptions cannot masturbate nearly as well as the average man can. This has important implications in that for one thing they waste a lot of time. Ever notice how women are always late? I often wonder if this is because they decided to masturbate but it took them too god damn long to get it done.
I was complaining about women in Argentina always being late to a friend of mine there. She mentioned how I was always raving about how beautiful Argentinian mujeras are. I agreed that I have been known to state that they are the most beautiful women in the world from time to time. She asked me "how do you think we get that way?"
My question is this, why here in sex prison are they late as well but show up wearing no makeup in a track suit? Could it be the masturbating?
Maybe they were jogging? No, wait, you said American women. Nevermind.
hearing held for notorious canada inmate by phil couvrette, associated press writer thu jun 2,10:56 am et
canada's most notorious female inmate, who has completed most of her 12-year prison sentence in the slayings of two teenagers, appeared thursday at a hearing where authorities will try to restrict her freedom once she is released.
karla homolka pleaded guilty to manslaughter in 1993 in the sex slayings of leslie mahaffy and kristen french and is set for release from a quebec prison july 5, although federal guidelines may allow her to be freed as early as june 23.
the appearance at the quebec superior court was the first in public for homolka, 35, since she went to prison. she was escorted into the courthouse in a police van, said benoit richard, a police officer in joliette, 50 miles north of montreal.
homolka got a reduced sentence by testifying against her ex-husband, paul bernardo, at his murder trial. he is serving a life sentence.
as part of the plea agreement, she was not charged in the death of her younger sister, 15-year-old tammy homolka, who died in 1990 after choking on her own vomit after she was drugged and raped by the couple.
canadian media labeled her plea bargain "the deal with the devil."
tim danson, the lawyer representing the mahaffy and french families, said he would ask the judge to block homolka from visiting parks, playgrounds or other areas frequented by children.
"my clients, more than anyone, appreciate how dangerous karla homolka is," danson told cbc-tv outside the courthouse. "karla homolka got away with murder. they recognize she represents a serious threat to the public and they want to do what they can to protect the lives of other canadians."
homolka's father, karel, told cp24 news channel that his daughter should face no restrictions once she's out of jail.
"this is canada, not russia, right?" he said from his home in st. catharines in southern ontario. when asked if his daughter had done her time, he responded: "she sure has, and then some."
ontario premier dalton mcguinty said tuesday that people were justifiably afraid of homolka and he would press authorities to impose as many restrictions as possible after her release.
"people are very concerned about what she might do again, and we have a responsibility to protect the public interest," mcguinty said. "this is something that has profoundly affected the psyche of ontarians."
the montreal gazette reported earlier this week that homolka has lost weight and dyed her blond hair black and cut it to shoulder length.
the newspaper also said she was "despised" by many inmates for her lack of remorse and for getting special treatment.
the ontario government will use section 810 of the criminal code, which only applies to individuals who may commit another offense or be a danger to the public, in arguing that her movements should be restricted. they also will seek a court order requiring her to submit a dna sample for a criminal database, said michael bryant, the province's attorney general.
bryant said officials fear she might commit new crimes.
"we are seeking a recognizance order, and will be making submissions to try and meet the test, which is that there's a reasonable likelihood that the person will commit another offense," he said.
bryant said he met recently with two of the couple's other [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] victims to get their input into what restrictions they would like to see imposed.
bryant wouldn't say if the province would — or could — consider new charges against homolka in connection with one of the victims, known as jane doe, who told the toronto sun this week that she wanted homolka to face trial for drugging, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord125][CodeWord125][/url] and almost killing her.
I had never heard of that case before, but I'm not surprised that the State (Canada) is trying to add on to her original sentence. In Florida, they want to pass restrictions on living within a certain distance of a school, park or daycar center if you've been convicted of a sexual crime against a minor. They are also considering legislation to allow life-long monitoring of convicted child molesters using the GPS ankle bracelet system (like the one Martha Stewart has). It looks like Canada is following suit.
Your usually an advocate of AW on this board. Was this last post to show that women of other countries do this kind of thing? Just seeking clarification.
I had just finished watching Jeopardy when a trailer for a new Heather Locklear (She’s so Hot!) movie was advertised. Locklear plays a middle aged mother who has not been able to find her perfect mate (I’m not sure if she’s divorced or never married). I gather the premise of the movie is that Locklear’s friends & daughter hunt around to find “Mr. Right” so that Locklear will not spend the rest of her life as a spinster. Guess what the title of the movie is: The Perfect Man.
Now, I’d love to find out how the perfect man is defined in this movie. Even more interesting will be how all of the almost certain numerous imperfect men will be portrayed. I’m sure some of the men in the movie will be a bit over the top (for example, I think I did see a gay bartender/waiter in the trailer) & I don’t know anything about Locklear’s character’s standard of living or personality, but I’m curious to find out how an ordinary decent guy will be depicted in this movie (if the movie decides to even show any ordinary folks).
Hopefully Roger Ebert will review this movie in the coming weeks because as curious as I am to find out, I don’t think I can bring myself to pay money to sit in a theater surrounded by a horde of desperate women relating to Locklear’s situation (if you know mean). Should any of you gentlemen happen to be dragged by your significant other to see the movie, please post a report on it.
-ILAS
American Women suck, still.
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/austria_freezer_infants[/url]
The Canadian lady won't win many popularity polls. I wonder what future she has. I imagine the guy got her up to a lot of it, maybe a little like Myra Hindley in England. There women are on the extreme and I sincerely hope there are not many of them out there helping guys do bad things.
I hope this example might provoke some debate/insights. I think examples like Psyber's ad would help a lot in highlighting and discussing relevent issues here in a productive way.
The Austrian babies case is, again, sad.
The woman, whose name was not released because of Austrian privacy laws... -WILLIAM J. KOLE, Associated Press Writer
Now that is interesting. In the US, an arrest is public domain & the authorities will relase your name immediately. Hell, they will release your name even if you are not considered a suspect (I like that one. You're not a suspect, but we just decided to investigate you & put you out in the limelight for shits & giggles.)
If you notice again and again in that article the writer is trying to absolve the woman. "Calls for more assitance from women in crisis pregnancies" When a woman does that immediatly after a pregnancy it's clear that she does so because she sees no other way out." I don't disagree with the conclusions but I don't think they are a valid excuse. Had a man taken the babies from her, killed them and stuffed them into a freezer it would be page one on the world press and the call would be for his immediate execution.
The justice system in the US is completely tipped in the favor of women compared to men it is just ridiculous. Not that the system in the UK or Australia is much better. I don't believe in marriage, and show most women the door after 90 days, its the best way I know to minimize my liabilities.
You're correct. When a woman does something wrong, everyone wants to try to understand how she could do something like this, but when it's a man, no one cares - just fry him.
That's interesting. Any reason why you chose 90 days? Just curious.
The tendency for people to rationalize heinous crimes committed by Western women is a reflection of the feminist grip on society. If one were to believe the propaganda in the media, there is an evil man behind every crime committed by a woman. The excuse that the Devil made me do it has now been replaced by the man made me do it.
It seems that only men are capable of criminal acts these days. If a woman murders her children it was most likely because she was depressed due to her husband/boyfriend abusing her or threatening to abandon her. Female criminals are victims who need understanding and male criminals are animals who must be severely punished.
I wonder how Lady Macbeth's behavior in the Shakespearean play "Macbeth" would be interpreted by those who are quick to excuse female deviants. The Greek play "Medea" by Euripides, shows exactly what women can be capable of. Perhaps, her husband Jason was to blame for Medea murdering their children as part of her revenge plot against him?
Medea:
"In vain, my children, have I brought you up,
Borne all the cares and pangs of motherhood,
And the sharp pains of childbirth undergone.
In you, alas, was treasured many a hope
Of loving sustentation in my age,
Of tender laying out when I was dead,
Such as all men might envy.
Those sweet thoughts are mine no more, for now bereft of you
I must wear out a drear and joyless life,
And you will nevermore your mother see,
Nor live as ye have done beneath her eye.
Alas, my sons, why do you gaze on me,
Why smile upon your mother that last smile?
Ah me! What shall I do? My purpose melts
Beneath the bright looks of my little ones.
I cannot do it. Farewell, my resolve,
I will bear off my children from this land.
Why should I seek to wring their father's heart,
When that same act will doubly wring my own?
I will not do it. Farewell, my resolve.
What has come o'er me? Shall I let my foes
Triumph, that I may let my friends go free?
I'll brace me to the deed. Base that I was
To let a thought of wickedness cross my soul.
Children, go home. Whoso accounts it wrong
To be attendant at my sacrifice,
Let him stand off; my purpose is unchanged.
Forego my resolutions, O my soul,
Force not the parent's hand to slay the child.
Their presence where we will go will gladden thee.
By the avengers that in Hades reign,
It never shall be said that I have left
My children for my foes to trample on.
It is decreed."
[quote=iloveanalsex]that's interesting. any reason why you chose 90 days? just curious.[/quote]
don't know how it is in australia, but in some jurisdictions in the u.s. a female doesn't have to be married to be entitled to 50% of a man's assets upon dissolution of the relationship; she only needs to have lived (and have been in a relationship) with the man for a certain time period (usually about a year). in states where this horrid law is observed the concept is known as a "common-law marriage" (some may even call it a "de facto" marriage). she doesn't need a ring on her finger to ass-[url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] you in court :(.
maybe that's what cbgb is trying to avoid.
Ahhh! So infanticide is not a trend nouveau, but women have engaged in this activity for centuries.
Well, I guess women feel that revenge is a right; therefore, women are blameless if they exercise that right & Medea follows closely to this premise.
It’s sad that a woman’s reaction (or overreaction) to rejection is seldom criticized. I recall the scene in the Terry McMillan movie, Waiting to Exhale, when Angela Bassett loads her husbands BMW with his possessions & sets the whole thing ablaze.
Now, Angela’s husband had just told her that he wanted a divorce (he was going to leave her for another woman, a co-worker I think); but I don’t think the theater would have erupted with applause if a man were to have set a bonfire after receiving a Dear John letter from his wife. Hell, everyone probably would have rationalized why the woman needed to leave the guy.
You know something, Maybe All Women Suck, but American Women Suck More
ILAS
Common Law Marriage, now that’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Do they really enforce that nowadays? I know any domestic relationship is a potential powder keg, but has anyone ever had their assets taken under common law?
I read a book about the Paul Bernardo-Karla Homolka murder case and although it has nothing to do with the topic at hand it is some really sick shit. Again it was the battered woman defense and it was all the man's fault and he got life and she gets out, even though she was recruiting the victims. So he beat her. So what? Pack your bags and get the fuck out.
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger] The Greek play "Medea" by Euripides, shows exactly what women can be capable of. Perhaps, her husband Jason was to blame for Medea murdering their children as part of her revenge plot against him? [/QUOTE]
CM: Good to see I have a fellow thespian here. All of these cases here involve relationships/spouses squaring the score with their spouse by killing their issue. I believe these crimes are in a different class; the French, for example, have a defense of crime of passion to murder. I also believe most of the anger here from posters is becasue of the failure, for whatever reasons, of their relationships with AW.
As AW are mortal like us, they can created heaven as well as hell. But crime, by and large, remains a male preserve.
In certain European countries, the women are as independent and rabidly feminist as American women, Sweden, Denmark, and the UK are the three best examples, then there are countries that are still quite traditional, most of them are in the former Eastern bloc. The woman that most guys will want for a long term relationship or that dedicated lady will not come from a first world country. She will most likely be in Eastern Europe, Asia, or South America.
What the fuck does a monger want with a long term relationship anyway? I have now been seeing the same gal for a record breaking eight months. I've only ever dated three AWs for longer than that, ex-wife included. But the difference is I see her every five days or so (less often lately) and I never see her twice in a row without fucking at least one other woman in between. This is perfect. We have continuity; we know each other; we can have that whole caring/sharing thing. And, we don't get bored. However pretty soon I will still have to cut her. When I do, I will give her a big hug and wish her well.
Never fuck the same woman two nights in a row, I say.
Domino, I still do not understand your point of saying that crime is primarily a male preserve. Are you saying that we should ignore the preferential treatment of female criminals because there are fewer female criminals than male criminals?
When you compare the numbers, there are fewer children who shoot up schoolyards than there are women who commit murder, but when a school shooting occurs, people do not say, “ well, crime is largely an adult preserve.” Instead, the police investigate the circumstances & no one tries to explain away the child’s behavior. These kids are held solely responsible for their behavior (although they may question whether or not the parents were as involved with their kids as they could have been). In some cases, the State will even attempt to try the child as an adult, which places the child in more jeopardy than if he/she were tried as a minor. No one presumes that the kid was abused, & no one tries to get the child to implicate the parents in return for leniency. In the case of the DC snipers, an adult was with the child; yet the State of Maryland made a deal with Virginia to try the child’s case in Virginia where they could go after the death penalty for the minor (The US Supreme Court has just ruled that the death penalty is unconstitutional in cases involving minors).
I believe that minors are much more impressionable, easier to manipulate & less stable emotionally than adult women. So if children can be held to “Adult” standards with regard to criminal behavior, why must we always find a scapegoat when it comes to adult women & their behavior?
ILAS
American Women started it, so American Women suck the most!
What about that "I hate Mondays" chick who shot up the schoolyard? Boy was she ugly.
I have a very good AW friend whose sister has just been admitted to rehab. Drug rehab? Alcohol rehab? No. Shopping rehab. It seems she blew through a half million dollar inheritance in about four years, and is "depressed" and has "used shopping as an escape." Her husband is a minister (pussy whipped to begin with) and even he finally asked for a divorce due to lack of sex.
So now the mother, whose father's legacy this gal squandered on god knows what, has placed her in an expensive rehab facility where she is now getting intravenous magnesium and vitamin C (I am not kidding) and some other shit until they can "figure out what type of chemical imbalance led to this behavior." OK, fuck, I don't know; maybe it is potassium. You get my point. Definitely intravenous vitamin C, though.
This is not a wayward teenager but a 40 something (fat cow) woman with a graduate degree. May I now please be excused to vomit?
Oh god now plus I just looked at the America's Most Wanted website. Apparently a lot of hookers are getting whacked. But take a look at these poor, unfortunate, [b]dead[/b] alleged hookers. Who in the hell would pay to fuck them? De mortuis nil nisi bonum notwithstanding.
This really concerns me.
[url]http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=442[/url]
[url]http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/bernardo/10.html?sect=5[/url]
Above are the whacked cuties and the strange and scary XXX of the Canadian killers. Going around whacking hookers or getting into the sick shit the Canadians did stems from something and is aggravated by surroundings and lack of personal control. The Canadian babe wrote her parents asking them to forgive her for whacking her sister. She wrote from the State Pen.
Not all women are angels and not all kids are either. There is a cautionary tale in the Canadians: "everything" in moderation only.
I personally think your arguments are flawed. Why do kids shoot up schools and not somewhere else? There is a mitigating reason, as there is with women killing spouses and children. These people are, thankfuly, marginal to society and to crime, which remains a largley male preserve from armed robberies, muggings, pimping etc. Not to play the old soldier but I know right wing, street smart, ass kicking cops and they agree a lot of these women and children are beaten before they are born.
Also, as regards Dickhead's addiction to hired holes, many guys here are just passing through until they meet the AW of their dreams.
I neither want nor expect agreement on this as our views on crime and punishment differ. However, I feel the diagreement might shine light for all of us; it does for me.
I actually like I don't like Mondays as that song was out in 1979, a year I spent mostly in the most perfect pussies I have ever known.
how are a lot of these women beaten before they are born?
fact - in today’s society we have more women attending & graduating from university than men.
fact - in today’s society women earn more money than men (now you have to pay attention to this fact. for example, you cannot compare the average male physician’s salary to the average salary of a female housekeeper working in the hospitality industry. but when you compare the average female starting salary to the average male starting salary within the same industry, women earn more than men. it is when women leave the workforce to raise children that they lose ground to their male peers, as well as their female peers who did not leave to have children. this explains why women want to put off having children until later & later, which unfortunately does not coincide with their biological clock).
fact - in today’s society women have more political influence than men. politicians are constantly courting the urban career woman & the suburban soccer mom.
so i do not understand how women are behind the power curve compared to men.
mitigating factors are irrelevant; there is a mitigating factor behind every action, criminal or legal, male or female. so i do not understand how mitigating factors invalidate my “women vs. children” argument. the point of my comparison between women & children is how society holds minors accountable for their criminal behavior, not readily willing to explain it away like it does for women.
in your earlier post, you referred to women as being mentally, physically & emotionally weaker than men, therefore requiring special consideration with regard to their behavior, even when the behavior is murder. my point is that minor children are obviously the weakest segment of our society (well, maybe not when compared to the mentally handicapped), yet society is quick to prosecute minor children as adults, holding the minors to adult behavioral standards.
so if the weakest segment of our society is expected to behave like adults, why must we sympathize with adult women when they fail to behave likewise? i’m sure no one expects more from minor children than from grown women, but i do not want to be presumptuous. it is possible that you believe that a 12 year old minor is physically, mentally & emotionally more mature than an adult woman, & therefore should be held to a higher standard.
ilas
american women suck, until proven otherwise.
Dickhead to answer your question, not everyone wants to remain alone for life. Sometimes you do find someone in the crowd that you are especially attracted to in a more intimate way. Anyway I find that the local women in Australia serve their purpose as short term entertainment quite well. Not all Australian women are sex machines, there are some that are quite homely, but then again there is a substantial supply of the beach volleyball types too.
There are disadvantaged sections of society, like the poor and minorities but rich women hardly fit into that. I looked at the dead hookers from the story Dickhead alerted us to and I wondered what the life story of those former lot lizards was. I then read up on some notorious female criminals from the same site - though none of them seems to have been as depraved as the Canadian babe.
Most of us, I hope do not want to meet these dangerous outliers. Instead, we prefer ordinary, cuddly, beefy, stocky, lovable American women. God bless them and their healthy appetites!
In some countries, some of the best looking women are "outliers" in the societies in which they live. I can think of several European countries, the women from the minority groups are almost always the best women in those societies.
domino probably looked at those dead hookers and got a woody. i just flew back from uruguay to argentina and the aws were acting [b]so[/b] fucking stupid. one fat slob had lost her entry form she got in uruguay and so at the montevideo airport i nicely offered to go with her to the immigration desk to translate for her. she looked at me suspiciously like i was a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126][CodeWord126][/url] and declined. later i heard her on her cell phone calling her mom in the us (this woman was in her late 20s) and asking her what she should do. still later i ran into her at the immigration desk, where she was attempting to communicate with the non-english speaking immigration officer by speaking [b]really loudly[/b] in english while holding up everyone else in the line.
then on the plane there was a whole group of students from dartmouth, an ivy league college for christ's sake. the two women in the group's entire speech was like you know i like um you know totally like um wow like thought uruguay was so like, um, really um like i don't know ... like different.
then there was the woman who, while also speaking in really loud english to the guy at the snack bar, got extremely huffy when she found out she could pay in dollars (with a $20 bill for a $2 item) but would get her change in uruguayan pesos, instead of being grateful for the option to pay in a foreign currency. this gal was just a biscuit or two shy of three bills. she was literally dragging her pussy of a husband by the arm over to the snack bar to "talk some sense" into the snack bar guy. she asked me if i was american and i said in spanish that i was from bulgaria.
oh yeah and all the female united airlines flight attendants were fat and ugly and did not speak spanish while most of the male flight attendants were trim and did speak spanish (and were totally gay). one of the female flight attendants looked like she had been dumped out of a vacuum cleaner bag.
anyway good luck with these hags. i'm sure you will need it.
[quote=Iloveanalsex]Common Law Marriage, now that’s a disaster waiting to happen.
Do they really enforce that nowadays? I know any domestic relationship is a potential powder keg, but has anyone ever had their assets taken under common law?[/quote]
Plenty of horror stories in California, one of the states where is is actually enforced.
Dickhead: Your last post should be edited. There is no excuse for bumping off aging hookers; they are people and should rip. The same goes for the naive kid bumped off in Aruba. The Ivy League kids are just that, naive all [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] and wind kids, going out to see the world, talking in the vernacular and not about Proust or whatever you imagine they should talk about. We all have met the ugly Americans abroad but the ones you mention were probalby just scared of the foreigners, as many Americans are and, being unused to foreigners, speak loudly, in English and thereby compound stereotypes.
American Armed Forces Radio run ads like that, telling their listeners that speaking loudly doesn't help and that they should learn the native language. Interestingly, in the military outposts of the American Empire, in places like Japan, they construct little Americas on base, complete with shopping malls, soccer moms, picket fences and PTAs. Very many of the housewives never venture off base and end up having to see shrinks. But I am kind to them as I am a nice, loving and caring monger. I take care of AW. And so should you. They need our love.
Now, gentlemen, to get fully back on track. Do not blame American women. Blame the system that instigates and perpetuates the problems, both real and imagined.
Bad Girls Go Wild
A rise in girl-on-girl violence is making headlines nationwide and prompting scientists to ask why.
Wounded: Jennifer Clayton, 14, was beaten by three girls as she walked home from school
By Julie Scelfo
Newsweek June 13 issue - When police arrived on the scene of a fatal stabbing last week in Brooklyn, N.Y., they were stunned by what they saw. The victim, an 11-year-old girl, lay crumpled on the floor, the front of her "Dora the Explorer" T shirt bloodied. The weapon, a steak knife, was in the kitchen sink. And the perpetrator, visibly upset and clinging to her mother, police say, was a little girl in a ponytail, only 9 years old. A few days later, she stood in white socks and shiny black dress shoes before a judge, listening as her lawyer entered a plea of not guilty.
The tragic event, which took place after the girls came to blows over a pink rubber ball, was a sad reminder that children can possess the same brutal instincts as adults. But for experts on youth crime, the killing was another instance of what they view as a burgeoning national crisis: the significant rise in violent behavior among girls. According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, the number of girls 10 to 17 arrested for aggravated assault has doubled over the last 20 years. The number of boys arrested for weapons possession rose 22 percent between 1983 and 2003, while the number of girls increased by a whopping 125 percent. Today, one in three juveniles arrested for violent crimes is female. "Girls are not what people think they are," says Dr. Howard Spivak, director of Tufts University Center for Children and coauthor of a new book, "Sugar and Spice and No Longer Nice: How We Can Stop Girls' Violence." "The change in girls' behavior is overwhelming."
A quick look at recent headlines is overwhelming indeed. On April 20, a 17-year-old from Lexington, Mass., allegedly slashed open the neck and face of another girl with a bottle of Twisted Tea. The next day, three teenage girls in Ayden, N.C., were charged with first-degree murder for participating in a drive-by shooting that left a 10-year-old boy dead. On May 3, a 17-year-old from Chicago was stabbed in her left breast and right armpit; a 16-year-old female classmate has been charged. And the teen daughter of former "Law & Order" star Dianne Wiest was recently arrested in Manhattan with two girlfriends for allegedly roughing up a male classmate and stealing his iPod. A court hearing is scheduled.
Schoolyards, where boy bullies once reigned supreme, are increasingly arenas for skirmishes between girls. "There are actually more physical girl fights now than between boys," says Bill Bond, a former school principal in Paducah, Ky., who travels the country studying safety issues for the National Association of Secondary School Principals. "I was just on a Cheyenne reservation yesterday and the principal said he had had one fight this year between boys and six between girls." Jennifer Clayton, 14, was beaten up in May by three other girls as she walked home from her school in Guelph, Ont. "I could hear them saying, 'Punch her in the face'," she told the local newspaper.
Jennifer Orangio, the 18-year-old slashing victim in Massachusetts, says that when she came upon her boyfriend hanging out with an ex in the school parking lot, the heat of her own reaction took her by surprise. Orangio went up to the other girl, Jamie Pelletier, and pushed her. Pelletier "threatened to smash a bottle over my head ... I was, like, 'Go ahead, do it!' And she did it." Pelletier, 17, now faces felony charges of assault and battery with a dangerous weapon (to which she pleaded not guilty). She declined to comment.
Part of this spike in violence is related to evolving sex roles. Historically, boys have received messages from the culture that connect masculinity with physical aggression, while girls received opposite messages, encouraging passivity and restraint. Now girls are barraged with images of "sheroes"—think Sydney Bristow on ABC's "Alias" or Uma Thurman's the Bride in "Kill Bill: Vol. 2"—giving them a wider range of role models and tacit permission to alter their behavior. Accordingly, says Spivak, some girls have "shifted from internalizing anger to striking out."
The women's movement, which explicitly encourages women to assert themselves like men, has unintentionally opened the door to girls' violent behavior. "I was at a JV lacrosse game, watching my granddaughter. We cheered like hell because she was being aggressive on the field," says Joan Jacobs Brumberg, professor of history, human development and gender studies at Cornell. "I don't want to blame women's liberation for violence among girls," cautions Brumberg, but "traditional femininity and passivity are no longer valued in young females." James Garbarino, professor of human development at Cornell, puts it more bluntly. "We rely on boys to get out there and block a football, go in the Army and defend the country, carry guns and be cops. One of the side effects is that some boys take [physical aggression] too far." Now that girls have the same opportunities, he says, they can encounter the same blurry boundaries.
Research suggests that the best predictor of violent behavior, however—for girls and for boys—is not hours logged playing videogames or competitive pressure, but firsthand exposure to violent behavior. And social scientists warn that the number of children who see guns, fights and other kinds of physical abuse on a day-to-day basis is on the rise. "Violence in girls, like violence in boys, is really rooted in the individual and the individual's situation. I don't think you can blame the culture entirely for this phenomenon," says Brumberg.
After Ella Speight's 17-year-old daughter was attacked by a 16-year-old classmate last month, she spent hours in the hospital, tending to her child. Speight says she isn't angry: she prays for the assailant and even embraced the girl's mother when they met in court. "My heart hurts for her family," says Speight. "I know her mother didn't send her out to do that." Sugar and spice and everything nice: maybe Speight's forgiving nature represents an ideal that even boys can aim for.
With William Lee Adams
© 2005 Newsweek, Inc.
Chocha Monger: Very good post. I will have to masticate on it. I think posts like that are much better and informative for all of us than just shooting off about what bittches AW are. I am sure there is a class dimension to all of this.
It as not like that in my day, dear;)
'Vice ring madam', 80, arrested
Police say a woman arrested on suspicion of running a prostitution ring in the US state of New Jersey may have a unique distinction. At 80 years old, they say, Vera Tursi could be the world's oldest operator in the world's oldest profession. New Jersey authorities say Mrs Tursi has admitted running prostitutes through the "August Playmates" agency.
Mrs Tursi, who is reported to use an inhaler and a walking frame, was arrested as part of a vice crackdown. Police raided several illegal prostitution rings masquerading as legal escort agencies.
'Sounded old'
Officers said they began to suspect her advanced age when they spoke to her on the phone during the undercover operation. She could be heard catching her breath and used old-fashioned language, they said.
"She used the word 'dear', as in, 'That's all-inclusive, dear'," reported the New Jersey Star-Ledger.
"You get a feel for how old someone is when you talk to them," State Police Detective Sergeant Thomas Cornely told the Newark newspaper. "She sounded like an 80-year-old woman."
She is thought to be the oldest suspect in a US prostitution case - though a 78-year-old woman was called "America's oldest madam" after court case in the early 1980s.
Police say Mrs Tursi ran the business from her two-bedroom flat. She reportedly admitted taking over the business from her daughter, who died a few years ago, to supplement her retirement income. She is alleged to have skimmed off $60 (£33) from every $160 (£88) clients were charged for an hour with a call girl.
Mrs Tursi faces up to five years in prison if she is found guilty - but police say because of her age, health and clean record, she would be more likely to be given probation.
Story from BBC NEWS:
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/4612401.stm[/url]
Amazing post Chocha Monger - thanks for sharing.
I, for one, welcome the day when the US female population will be comprised of nothing but "sheroes." We will need aggressive women to serve in the Army to protect our borders and fight our wars after President Hillary orders the chemical castration of the US male population.
Don't worry - you won't feel a thing.
Outstanding post Chocha.
It amazes me that so many people today cannot fathom the idea that women, especially the women of the last couple of generations, are in fact violent creatures. I'm 35 & over the course of my life the worst fights I've ever been in were with women.
It's good see a respected news organization dispelling some of the gender myths we have running around. This could be the beggining of progress.
Here’s an interesting article from Reuters. A Russian diplomat believes that Russian women are most beautiful in the world. I've not been to Russia so I cannot comment on their women, but I’m sure everyone says that the women of their home country are the best around. I’d like to be able to develop an unbiased way to really determine which country had the best women - looks & personality.
Anyway, here is the link if you want to see the article in its original form, however, I have posted the article below in its entirety: [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050606/od_nm/russia_marriage_dc;_ylt=AhP17b6iujipTizaBRgaRCWs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2YnFncG91BHNlYwNvZA--[/url]
----------------------------------------------------
MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russians who marry foreigners could be exiled and stripped of their citizenship under a bill being drafted by a group of members of parliament, a deputy said Sunday.
One of the bill's authors, Duma deputy Nikolai Kuryanovich, a member of the ultra-nationalist LDPR party, admitted parliament was unlikely to approve the measures but insisted they were necessary. "Our women, the most beautiful and best in the world, are going abroad. By doing this, they are wasting the most valuable thing we have -- the gene pool of our nation," Kuryanovich told Ekho Moskvy radio.
But while condemning women for going abroad, he also said he did not want people bringing foreign spouses to Russia either.
Newly-weds would be forced to go and live in the country where their spouses were from, Kuryanovich said, to protect Russia from "an invasion of alien elements."
"Adapting to life in Russia ... foreigners impose their own rules, which are unacceptable to us," he said.
Since the fall of Communism, the numbers of Russians marrying foreigners has increased significantly and a poll cited in respected magazine Ogonyok last year said one in three 17 to 25-year-old girls wanted to marry a foreigner and live abroad.
The LDPR party's leader, Vladimir Zhirinovsky, is known as a maverick who enjoys stirring up controversy and has traded punches with fellow deputies during parliamentary sittings.
The Dartmouth College ladies were just acting like typical affluent suburban brats. I had the opportunity to see a group of German women and American women side by side at a nightclub in Australia. Carefully observing both groups of women, there were stark differences in the behavior, demeanor, and appearance of both groups. The Germans were far more attractive(the German ladies were slim, and fashionably dressed while the American women seemed hefty and dressed in a gaudy manner, the Germans held better composure, and seemed a lot friendlier than the American ladies, it was like comparing a fleet of S-Class Mercedes Benzes to some noisy Chevy's.
An arcticle from The Sunday Times:
Women have it both ways
Rod Liddle
Women, it seems, are far too tired to sleep with us these days. They are also too tired to do paid work and that unpaid domestic servitude we males glibly pass off as “housework”. Women, in short, are completely whacked.
They could do with sitting down on the sofa with their legs up and a nice cup of tea.
Two reports out last week show just how exhausted women have become: they do not, at first sight, seem to be linked — but when you think about it for a bit, the connection is pretty obvious.
The first and most startling came in the magazine Mother & Baby (to which journal, as you might imagine, I am a subscriber). This was the place where we discovered that women who have young children are too bushed for sexual intercourse, even that sadly familiar form of congress that lasts only a nanosecond. The report also came up with this statistic: about 77% of women who have recently had babies say they are “unable to work effectively” because they are up all night breast-feeding.
This is interesting for two reasons. First, most women who have babies and continue working (after their fairly long, mandatory maternity leave) tend to do so on a part-time basis, to the frequent chagrin of their bosses. But they’re still exhausted.
Second, while we might empathise with their insuperable weariness, should we not also spare a thought for the curmudgeonly bosses, especially those of small firms, who have complained endlessly about women staff with very small children working on a part-time basis and are usually designated antediluvian chauvinists when they dare to do so? Here we have it from the horses’ mouths, so to speak: the vast majority of women with very small children are, by their own admissions, useless at their jobs. They are “ineffective”. This is not sexism in the workplace, it is down to the sexism of biology: women lactate and men don’t.
The second report cropped up in The Economist. Here we were told the excellent news that women have made startling inroads into three previously male strongholds — law, medicine and the church. More than half of those now called to the bar are women.
Further, more women than men are entering the medical profession (and have been for 10 years or so). Once again, they are doing so on a part-time basis and hence are not receiving quite as much pay as their male counterparts. More than half of all female GPs
work part-time. Ring them at two in the morning with the DTs and you’ll take second place to the baby. The fact that women don’t earn as much as men is seen as a “bad” thing.
So too is the fact that far more women than men work part-time. Yet the individuals and organisations that agitated — bravely and correctly — for maternity leave and the introduction of flexitime, job sharing and term-time working practices (all of which have massive take-up among women and negligible take-up among men) now bemoan the fact that women seem ghettoised in less remunerative part-time work. There is a whiff of having one’s cake and eating it here.
If you enact legislation that makes it easy for one sex not to go to work, without much in the way of penalty, they are likely to take it up. That’s human nature, male or female. However, little such legislation or cultural latitude applies to men. We chaps get two weeks of paternity leave, like it or lump it — and only if we can attest that we are the real fathers (which, at The Spectator magazine, is a perennial problem).
Similarly, we have recently discovered, in The Journal of Human Resources, that the greatest redistribution of wealth since the sale of council houses has been the transfer of vast sums of cash to divorced women. These days, when courts pass judgment in divorce cases, they have in mind the proto-feminist notion that the woman who “sacrifices” her career in order to support her husband has made a 50% economic contribution to the household, regardless of the fact that “progressive” legislation has made it likely that many of them are pursuing their own careers.
Likewise, in custody cases, the mother needs to be a rancid, drug-addled termagant to lose control of her children: this part of the legal system accepts, beyond all doubt, that a child’s place is with his or her mother. In this regard, men are never equal and the mindset of our family courts is yet another moral and economic disincentive to women to compete on an equal footing in the job market. Why bother working when divorce will net you a fortune? Why shun your young child and go off to work when the courts insist that you are their natural care-giver? And the law is probably right, both in divorce and custody cases. But you cannot have it both ways. At the moment, one part of our judicial system and our culture insists that women, effectively, should stay at home and look after the kids. While another — the employment tribunals, the Equal Pay Act — insists that women should be paid the same as men and given the same working opportunities. Woe betide any employer who dares to cavil when the woman goes part-time and turns up to work half wrecked two days a week.
Call it post-feminist male bleating, but this is a dichotomy. Whichever way you look at it: it simply does not add up.
Oregon Researcher Finds Young Women More Likely to Engage in Interpersonal Aggression than Men
By Brian Carnell
Tuesday, March 15, 2005
Research involving domestic violence has suggested that men and women tend to be equally likely to engage in acts of violence, though due to size and other differences women are more likely to sustain a serious injury from such violence. Deborah Capaldi, a researcher at the Oregon Social Learning Center wanted to study interpersonal violence in a controlled setting and was surprised by the results -- young women in her study were four times more likely to initiate physical aggression such as slapping, poking and kicking.
Capaldi brought young couples in to her lab and gave them problem-solving exercises they had to work together to solve. Capaldi then recorded their behavior and analyzed who initiated physical aggression. She found that women aged 18 years old were four times more likely to initiate aggression than men. This effect gradually went away with age, until 26 when women initiated aggression only slightly more often then men.
Capaldi told The Register-Guard (Oregon),
Who were the primary initiators of such slaps, pokes and kicks? The women. . . . Women engage in aggression and we're not doing them any favors by denying they have any part in it.
According to The Register-Guard, Capaldi was surprised at some of the acts of physical aggression they observed in a laboratory setting,
Capaldi said she and her colleagues expect some verbal arguments but were surprised by the extent of slaps, pokes and kicks as partners discussed such assigned topics as planning a party, where to go on a date, or how to deal with such issues as jealousy and lack of money.
If hit or poked, the men and women were about equally as likely to respond in kind. None of the physical aggression was severe, which researchers would have halted, Capaldi said.
Capaldi's research is scheduled for publication in the Journal of Family Violence.
Finally, The Register-Guard interviewed for its story Margo Schaefer, who runs Womenspace which is a domestic violence shelter. Schaefer told The Register-Guard that there is a difference between men and women when it comes to violence,
The most common cause of injury for women between the ages of 15 and 44 is domestic violence -- you don't see that for men.
The claim that domestic violence is the number one cause of injury for women or some subset of women is one of those myths that simply won't go away. In fact, the number one cause of injury for both men and women are accidental falls. Domestic violence doesn't occupy the second spot either, with that being claimed by automobile accidents. In fact, only about 1 percent of women's injury-related visits to the emergency rooms appear related to assault by a male intimate.
It doesn't benefit anyone to either downplay or exaggerate the extent of domestic violence as Ms. Schaefer and other domestic violence advocates routinely do.
Source:
Fingering the aggressor. Jeff Wright, The Register-Guard, January 29, 2005.
The term "pussy whipped" can have many connotations but in the USA it increasingly means American women literally whipping men's asses. While women are more likely to be injured in their physical engagements with men, it seems that they are much more likely to have a hankering for a good old brawl. With the size of women increasing steadily, in the future men will probably sustain more injuries as a result of these domestic combat engagements.
It is no secret that men in professions that require the bearing of arms such as law enforcement officers and military personnel often take their blows without retaliation from their loving wives; fighting back can mean the end of their career when the little lady accuses them of beating her. American women know how much leverage domestic violence charges can have against men in a divorce and they are not shy when it comes to using it. It's good to see that research is beginning to shed some light on the dynamics behind the scenes. However, men still face the "wife beater" stereotype in the family courts.
For years women have been kept out of ground combat in the military. Maybe, it's time for the government to reconsider this position. US women are now beefier with greater body mass than previous generations. They are even more aggressive than the average hen-pecked male. The Iraqi prison scandal showed that our women are more than capable at subjugating and breaking male insurgents on a leash. Perhaps we'll actually have a chance of ending that war if we put more women in uniform and send them over there. In no time the other side will be begging for a truce!
The American Amazon may just be the key to protecting this wonderful land. Then we American men can travel the world mongering secure in the knowledge that our women are out there making it a safer place. ;)
Marriage is a waste of time, end of story.
Hey fellas,
Check out this story. This poor guy didn’t even get to fuck the ***** & has to shell out $1,500/month. Is this a great country or what? Here’s the link if you want to read the article at the website: [url]http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05140/507736.stm[/url]
Sperm donor fights order to support 2 children
Friday, May 20, 2005
By Barbara White Stack, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
The Pennsylvania Supreme Court is weighing a case with the potential to strike fear in the hearts of sperm donors who thought they were getting $50 for their genetic material and nothing more -- certainly no responsibility for babies created with it.
The justices heard arguments this week in a case that forces them to weigh the right of children to financial aid from two parents against the right of men to provide sperm for in-vitro fertilization without the donors being held responsible for any offspring.
"There is a lot of fear surrounding this court case because if the court extends this beyond support, to rights and obligations, then I think it will create a serious chilling effect," said Lawrence Kalikow, a Bucks County lawyer who is an expert in surrogacy, sperm and egg donation cases.
The genesis of the case is a decade-old deal between ex-lovers, Joel L. McKiernan, now of Mt. Lebanon, and Ivonne V. Ferguson, now of New York. He agreed to provide sperm for babies she wanted and she agreed to absolve him of responsibility for their progeny.
Through in-vitro fertilization, she bore twins and raised them alone for five years. Then she sued McKiernan for child support in Dauphin County.
The Common Pleas Court judge there acknowledged that the couple had a binding verbal contract that released McKiernan from the normal responsibilities of fathers. But he decided the contract was invalid because the two had wrongly bargained away rights of the twins, particularly their right to child support from two parents.
Then the court ordered McKiernan to pay $1,500 in support a month. He appealed. Last July Superior Court said the lower court judge was right. That's what got McKiernan before the Supreme Court this week.
There Justice Ronald D. Castille asked Elizabeth A. Hoffman, the Harrisburg lawyer representing Ferguson, whether the court's invalidating the verbal contract between Ferguson and McKiernan would make it difficult for infertile couples to obtain sperm donors.
Hoffman's argument was that anonymous donors to sperm banks wouldn't be affected because their contracts are with the banks, not with the potential mothers.
And she stressed that only cases involving single mothers are relevant because in Pennsylvania children born to married women are assumed to be those of the husband. In those cases, then, the children have two parents to provide support.
At this point, sperm donation centers don't seem to be in panic. One of the largest in the country, Cryobank of California, mentions the Pennsylvania decision on its Web site but assures its donors they're unaffected. California has a law protecting donors from support actions. Pennsylvania does not.
A supervisor at Cryobiology Inc. of Columbus, which has a sperm collection center in Pittsburgh, was unaware of the case as was the executive director of the Reproductive Science Institute with three offices outside Philadelphia.
Both Donna Ridder of Cryobiology and June Amarant of Reproductive Science said they thought their contracts would protect donors.
The lawyer representing McKiernan wasn't so sure. Attorney John W. Purcell Jr., of Harrisburg, said that if a judge decided that a contract between mother and father was invalid because it denied children their rights, it could nullify a contract between a man and a sperm center denying children rights.
And such anonymous donors are traceable. Banks ordered by courts to find and identify donors have the means to do it.
Donors should have some concern, said Erie lawyer Joe Martone, who is handling a case that is the reverse -- an egg donor seeking custody rights to triplets she didn't bear and has never supported.
The vast majority of cases in which children are conceived from donated eggs or sperm work out happily ever after, Martone said.
But if the Supreme Court upholds the lower courts' decisions in this case, Martone said, it's possible that single parents who conceived with donated genetic material will demand the names of the donors and seek support.
He and attorney Kalikow agreed the problem would be resolved if Pennsylvania passes legislation -- as at least a dozen other states have -- regulating sperm and egg donation.
Although this is a Pennsylvania case, it could have repercussions elsewhere, Purcell said. If a bank in California ships sperm to the doctor of a single woman in Pittsburgh, it is conceivable that the Pennsylvania-born child would be covered by the Pennsylvania decision, he said. Or, he said, it's possible a child would be covered if the mother moved to Pennsylvania to deliver.
If the court rules that McKiernan must continue to pay, he said, that could chill donation everywhere.
And that, Kalikow said, would hurt infertile couples. "If donors don't want to donate, then intended parents have that option foreclosed."
Both he and Percell said there is an example in Pennsylvania law that would enable the Supreme Court to release sperm donors of obligations to be the second parent to children born to single mothers.
In cases of abused or neglected children, it is fairly common now for courts to terminate the rights of both parents then permit one person, usually an unmarried or widowed foster parent, to adopt. That action leaves the child without two parents to support him.
(Barbara White Stack can be reached at 412-263-1878.)
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]Marriage is a waste of time, end of story.[/QUOTE]
CBGB,
I know that you have a 90 day limit when it comes to relationships with women. I myself have found that I need some personal time after 180 days of contact, if the woman in question is from the US or Western Europe my survival time falls to 180 minutes. If I can take care of business in less time then I'm out of there.
However, does your view on marriage include Latin America and Asia?
Let me comment on marriage in Latin America. In México, getting formally married is a huge big deal and in my experience very important to the woman. In Argentina, people often say they are married when they are merely living together, and even if they do get legally married, often when they separate they do not bother to get legally divorced. Formal marriage and divorce are viewed by many as a waste of money that could otherwise be spent on soccer or movie tickets, or wine, or a good steak.
In Bolivia they have trial marriage. They live together for one year and at the end of the year if the [b]man[/b] is not satisfied with the arrangement, he can cut her loose even if she is pregnant or they already have a child. The woman has no such option. No, I do not think this is right. If they decide to stay together there is a second ceremony where all the townspeople gather and throw rocks at them, the idea being that if they can endure being stoned they can endure marriage. NO, not that kind of "being stoned" you leftover 60s acid casualty burn out.
Anyway, my overall point is that you cannot generalize about marriage over a region comprising many countries and two continents. It is specific to the norms of more localized societies.
BTW my current favorite prostitute here in Argentina is married (she is from Paraguay and he is from Argentina) and she says he knows what she does and does not care. He often waits in a local coffee shop while I fuck his wife. A year or two ago this would have bothered me but now it does not.
Ferdinand of Aragón and Isabella of Castille married at their parents' behest to unite Spain and proceeded to cheat on each other from day one so if a person [b]were[/b] to generalize one could say that model has been very popular in the former Spanish colonies for a very long time.
ILAS,
An American woman couldn't afford to purchase my leche for in vitro fertilization because she'd have to pay an amount equal to the cost of raising any potential offspring to adulthood per individual sperm. What kind of moron sells off his leche for a paltry $50 anyway? That is barely a tank of gasoline these days. A man's love [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] in this country is a WMFD (Weapon of Mass Financial Destruction). It should be handled with great care under the most stringent security measures. Giving your leche to American women is the equivalent of letting the terrorist have nukes because they promised not to use them against us.
I have had solicitations for the donation of my precious leche. The woman involved was willing to have a lawyer of my choice draft up an agreement absolving me of any liability concerning the use of the material. Needless to say, I passed on the offer. I'd rather squander my leche in squalid foreign locales while facing the dangers of death and disease. As far as I'm concerned the risks pale in comparison to what I would face back home in the good old USA.
I guess some women are genetically adverse to sex... would explain things.
[url]http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20050607-1127-orgasm-genes.html[/url]
By Emma Ross
ASSOCIATED PRESS
11:27 a.m. June 7, 2005
LONDON – A woman's ability to have an orgasm is at least partly determined by her genes and can't be blamed entirely on cultural influences, new research suggests.
Experts say that's likely to be interpreted as both good and bad news.
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"It'll be upsetting because some women will think, 'Oh my God, maybe I just can't.' On the other hand it takes away a kind of guilt or pressure," said Dr. Virginia Sadock, director of the human sexuality program at New York University Medical Center.
Either way, specialists say the findings don't mean women who inherit an unfortunate gene package are doomed. They just mean that more work, or patience, is required.
The main benefit of discovering the genetic elements of sexual function, experts say, is to help scientists find better treatments for sexual problems. The study was reported this week in Biology Letters, a journal of the Royal Society, Britain's independent academy of science.
In the study, scientists from St. Thomas' Hospital in London sent questionnaires to 4,037 women who are part of the British twin registry. About half of them were identical twins and half were non-identical twins.
One in three of the women reported never or hardly ever reaching orgasm during intercourse and 21 percent said they hardly, if ever, achieve climax during masturbation. Those figures are consistent with other surveys conducted over the last few decades.
However, the questionnaires revealed a significant genetic influence on the ability to reach orgasm, said lead researcher Tim Spector, a genetic epidemiologist at St. Thomas' Hospital.
The similarity in orgasm experience was greater in identical twins than it was in non-identical twins, Spector said. Because the only difference between the two groups was genetic, the researchers concluded that the gap between the groups was the genetic component.
After taking into account other factors that could influence orgasm, the scientists estimated that 34 percent of the difficulty women face in reaching orgasm during intercourse is due to genes.
Problems in sexual response during masturbation seemed to be more genetically influenced than orgasm ability during intercourse. The study found that 45 percent of the difficulty women have in climaxing during masturbation can be attributed to genetic makeup.
The results were similar to those of a study on Australian twins published earlier this year.
The idea that orgasm ability has a genetic component makes sense, said female orgasm expert Laura Berman, a professor at the Feinberg School of Medicine at Northwestern University in Evanston, Ill.
"A lot of the women that I treat will tell me that when they talk to their siblings or mothers they very often have similar challenges," said Berman, who was not involved with the study. "One could make the case that it's nurture, not nature because these twins were brought up together, but you can't rule out the genetic argument."
But Spector said effects of the twins' shared environmental influences did not alter the study results significantly.
Even if women do inherit an unfavorable genetic mix, as with many other conditions, it does not mean they are doomed, experts said. Many approaches can help most women enhance their ability to achieve orgasm.
"Factors influencing the ability to (reach) orgasm vary from woman to woman. What we do know is that psychologically women are more complex sexually," Sadock said. "For women, being in a relationship where they feel loved and feel secure, is a big factor. Other big factors are how they feel about themselves and about sex and what their first experiences were."
"Maybe there are some women ... who can never. That is a possibility, but that would be a small amount," Sadock said.
And even if they can't, that doesn't mean there's no joy for them in sex, Berman added. A survey she recently conducted found that among women enjoying satisfying sex lives, orgasm did not rate as a key element for fulfillment.
You’re correct, $50.00 is not much money at all, but in the case of the Pennsylvania guy, I don’t think money had anything to do with it. The guy seems pretty well off (not many people pay $1500/month child support for 2 kids).
I envision a scenario where this single girl wanted to have kids, knew the guy already but wasn’t involved with him (hence the in-vitro fertilization), and asked the guy for his sperm. The guy probably said yes figuring that he’d be doing a nice thing for this lady, especially since he already knew her. I’m sure many sperm, egg, blood, or any other type of donor feels that they are performing a humanitarian act when they give of themselves.
The sad part is that she turned on him years later & sued him in court for child support. This wasn’t a guy who fucked her then ran off. She was impregnated through in-vitro fertilization!
I thought the dumbest case I’d ever heard before was when the lady sued McDonald’s after she placed the coffee between her legs & drove off, spilling the coffee & burning herself. I was wrong; this case takes the cake. Cases like these perpetuate the notion that American Women do not have to take responsibility for any of their actions. What’s next, adoptive mothers suing biological parents for child support?
Choca Monger, I know you don’t donate sperm in the first place, neither do I, but unfortunately, genuine people everywhere will probably stop donating anything anymore for fear that they may be liable in the future should the donor become dissatisfied with the donation.
I once went out with an Eastern European girl, and we got into an argument on vacation, because she wanted me not to spend too much on her. I wanted to stay at a nicer hotel, and she chided me that I should save the money and stay someplace cheaper. You will hear the exact opposite from an American woman, most of them would argue with me for not spending more money on her.
ILAS,
In America the fastest way to get your ass sued is through good intentions. I agree with you that this poor sap thought that he was helping that poor single unattractive AW and that she would be forever grateful to him for donating his gunk. Well he helped her alright, he helped her right into his bank account for the next decade and a half at least.
What I don't understand is the grounds for her dissatisfaction with his donation. The product functioned exactly as intended. She used it of her own free will to produce children which cost a lot of money to maintain. What did she think having kids was about? I don't find it amazing either that she sued for child support a few years later just as the cute baby phase came to an end. I guess if you donate a car you can be sued for the cost of the fuel, oil and tires needed to keep it running.
I actually met a guy several years ago who entered into one of those deals with a single AW who was rapidly approaching 40 yrs of age. In other words she was well into old maid country. Anyway, he never poked her; he just donated his sperm. There should have been several warning signs for him. She insisted on using his sperm instead of an anonymous donor; she wanted any resulting kids to know their father. Well, after she finally got pregnant she played on this guy's emotions and got him go to her prenatal appointments to see the kid on sonogram. The next thing you know he was there for the birth too because he had good intentions and couldn't leave a single woman to go through that on her own. Eventually she would leave the baby to spend time with him, and so he progressed slowly from donor to father. Once he was attached to the kid she started disrupting his relationships with other women. I don't know how it all finally ended but his "son's mother" was gaining more and more control over his life with each passing day. It was always interesting to see this guy in his early 20's explaining his relationship with this older woman to hot young chicks.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that single women who chose a "friend" to be a sperm donor sometimes do so because they secretly want more with that particular person, or they expect help financial or otherwise. They really don't want a donor, they want a father.
In general, while American women love kids, big houses in the suburbs and SUVs more often than not they expect a man to pay for it all.
If your sperm helps to make a baby, you should support that baby. Sure, some women want stringless babies and will trick a sucker into filling her belly. But child support in those cases is the price to be paid. I have known far too many prostitutes in Thailand and other cess pits who have been abandoned by the men who impregnated them, leaving them to literally hold the baby. I think you guys have two major issues:
1. you reduce everything to your control of your checkbook which is selfish and not very romantic.
2. you do not appreciate the good points many AW have and, having been burnt, you dare not sip from the chalice of love again.
Domino:
Please define romance for us neanderthals.
After reading the bizzare war he was having on the Thai board I've come to this conclusion. He needs to be ignored. He will take a contrarian position no matter what's posted. If AW are so great why is he all about the Thai board. This will be the last post I respond to anything He has to say.
I wish there was a way to mute people so I couldn't even see their posts. If there is and I don't know about it somebody please enlighten me.
ILAS, I used to feel the same way as you did about the McDonalds/Coffee thing until I talked to a friend that studied that case in law school. Seems there was a shitload of people involved as it was a class action thing and a lot of people actually lost their genitalia due to a defective cup and coffee that was hot enough to actually burn through skin.
As far as the guy that got sued for child support. Only in America when it is an AW with her hand out. We as a people are incapable of forcing THEM to be responsible for THEIR decisions. Somebody always has to bail them out when they are over their heads due to their own failure to anticipate the results of their decisions. I'm still reeling about the guys here in Texas that the courts will not release from their child support orders even AFTER dna proves them to not be the Fathers. Seems AWs can even lie about fucking around and still make a man pay.
DR: Here is the McD coffee case.details [url]http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/1287038/posts[/url]
The problem with this thread is you can only see with one eye. I have always been polite here but you refuse to even contemplate that there might be another side and so you lump all AW in together.. That, my friend, is very much your problem and not mine. Think about it: you just want posts here to confirm your own prejudices. I personally found the contrary cases others posted to be of interest. The rest I find irritatingly boring.
Hardbarg and other wanna be modern men: Women are looking for something else, not someone with a checkbook though that is important. They want someone to uplift them, weep them off their feet. As they get older, they want someone to gently lift them, to sing their way into their hearts.
It is interesting to compare this thread to the Japan_Nampa thread where the emphasis in on seducing one's way into their panties. The Japanese women they are nampa_ing are, by American standards, very repressed.
Anyway, that new thread is coming along nicely.
Domino must have his balls in a vise to write the shit he has been writing lately. I liked Skinless much better. But for sure this idiot that Choca Monger is writing about had his balls in one. Imagine: all the duties of fatherhood without ever any pussy.
After leaving the US, I now have all the pussy I want without any duties whatsoever, and it is highly affordable as well.
dickhead
after attacking my spanish, what shit are you talking about? i do not think it serves anyone's interests to constantly attack a group of people, aw in this case. if guys here want a 12 step recovery program ok but opinions are like nipples, everyone has one or more.
on the specific subject of being pussy whipped: one guy on the indonesian board seems set for that and another on the thai board allows his hooker gf to confirep001e his phone, camera and more. i couldn't even make up shit like that. but shit like that interests me and also serves as a red flag.
the new thai thread, which is proving popular (more popular than that shit in the phil section anyway) is not serious. it is a joke, a waste of bandwidth like so much more but a joke like so much more.
now i will go back to my new sandbox and wish you all the best of luck in this one.
Domino:
I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from trying to insult me ("a wanna be modern man"), especially in the same post where you claim you "have always been polite here".
Now please describe the woman's contribution in this romantic world you envision.
One of our fellow mongers is locked up till the end of the year thanks to a charge brought up by his ex wife. Maybe he missed his child support payment, pissed her off somehow, or didnt do her bidding fast enough. She's a real sawed off ***** on the reel, I know firsthand. Anyways He has no credit cards or bank account since she gets all his dough for the 10yo.
Another dude used to work as a security guard in my building and his babys mother cut through one day to get to the next street. She had a few words with him and he ended up quitting after his shift as he was gonna get his check garnished. He was working 2 or 3 jobs anyhow to keep up.
[QUOTE=hardbarg]Domino: Please define romance for us neanderthals.[/QUOTE]
You call yourself a neanderthal. so I call you a wanna be modern man, ie a neanderthal trying to come into the modern world. Sorry this offends you. The trick with women is to listen to them, to show you care, or at least to pretend. Now, my sandbox awaits.
Good luck gentlemen and may all your Christmases be white.
Answer the question.
Check this out:
A technique for recovery of eggs from the ovary is described below. It uses a sonographically-guided needle to replace the surgical procedure which previously was used to recover oocytes (eggs). This procedure, called Transvaginal Oocyte Retrieval, requires neither hospitalization nor general anesthesia.
In order to prepare a proper environment in the woman and to increase the chances of recovering several healthy and mature eggs, the woman will undergo about two weeks of intensive preparation. This will include hormonal therapy with "fertility drugs." Blood tests and ultrasound scans of the ovaries are used to determine the optimal time to retrieve the eggs from the ovary. This optimal time is just before ovulation when the oocytes are almost ready for fertilization.
At the proper time, an outpatient procedure under local anesthesia will allow the female's eggs to be visualized by ultrasound and retrieved from the ovary by placing a needle through the vaginal wall. The mild discomfort that the patient feels has been described as similar to a Pap smear or endometrial biopsy. After a short rest, the patient will be able to go home and resume normal activities.
The fluid from the follicles is examined under the microscope by the embryologist, who locates the eggs and keeps them in the laboratory under physiologic conditions. The embryologist will place the sperm with the eggs when they are ready for fertilization. Usually, the eggs will develop into cleaving pre-embryos, whose cells divide 2 or 3 times to become preimplantation embryos (pre-embryos). They are maintained in laboratory dishes, in a nutrient mixture which acts as a substitute for the environment that would otherwise have been provided by the fallopian tubes.
Using a special catheter, the couple's pre-embryos will be passed through the vagina and into the uterus at the time the pre-embryos would normally have reached the uterus (2+ days after retrieval).
After the pre-embryo placement in the uterus, the patient will lie quietly in a bed for about an hour, and then will return home.
Here’s the link to the original website if you want to check it out for yourself: [url]http://www.ivf.com/ivffaq.html[/url]
Now Domino, how can you compare a prostitute in Thailand who has been impregnated & abandoned by her trick to an AW who goes through the process of in-vitro fertilization? We are talking about a woman, an American Woman mind you, that sought out the services of a fertility clinic so that she could become impregnated, not a woman who picked up a guy at a bar & had unprotected sex. Obviously, any single woman who employs a third party fertility specialist & endures this process does so with the intention of raising the baby alone. No one here is arguing against child support, but for this single woman to then sue this guy who was doing this woman a favor is just plain WRONG. What next, single or recently divorced women will decide to sue the biological parents for children they adopted?
Domino, I know you believe that AW can do no wrong, but there is no way you can justify this type of behavior, nor can you disagree that this behavior perpetuates the attitude that women should not be responsible for their decisions. However, I have a sneaky suspicion that you will try to, & I eagerly await your defense my friend.
Maybe we should outlaw in-vitro fertilization for single women; now that would go over well with the feminist movement! In the Old Testament, a woman is not allowed to enter an agreement with anyone without validation from her father or her husband (unless she is a widow). If she does, it may be canceled by her father / husband. Maybe the old Hebrews had it right, but I bet this idea wouldn’t go over well with the feminist movement either.
Chocha Monger is correct. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, & lined with AW.
ILAS
American Women Suck – and they know it.
Daddy Rulz & Domino:
I did not know the details of the McDonald’s case. All I knew was that a woman spilled coffee in her lap (Hell, I do that all the time)
I looked at the posted McD. link, & now my opinion has changed regarding that case. Thank you guys for enlightening me.
See Domino, I can admit when I’m wrong & change my opinion.
ILAS
American Women Suck – I have not changed my opinion on that.
I owe you 1/4 of a BBBJ from the provider of your choice. I just discovered the freaking ignore list. It's so cool! Now whenever the pizza guy posts it say "this post hidden" I love it! Is there also a hidden spell check I don't know about?
So now we can get back to the serious business of telling the world why AW suck, instead of responding to the horseshit of a 16 year old hunched over his keyboard hoping his Mom doesn't walk in and see "*************" at the top of the page. Break out the Brahmas!
A very famous pornographer once said its better to visit a prostitute for sex than get married to an American woman, he mentioned its a lot cheaper and less stressful. I totally agree, anyone considering marrying an American woman or who considers her desirable knowing that there is a world of alternatives available outside the US is a fool. Still around the world, in places where the average lady is gorgeous, some idiots still think AWs are appealing, the reason? They watch TV and see movies, so they think the typical American woman looks like Angelina Jolie.
CBGB,
If you want to discuss all the baggage that AW carry, and the sh*t that the typical AM puts up with vice our brethren overseas, more power to you.
Sadly, in my experience, fugly women, and men for that matter, exist everywhere. It is not a geographical problem. It is the gene pool.
You want fair haired? Try Finland. Dark and dusky? Try S. America or Uzbekistan.
Attitude, Sir. Attitude and cultural programming are the real difference IMHO.
Cheers,
Sporadic
Here's the link:
[url]http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/state/11715725.htm[/url]
Posted on Mon, May. 23, 2005
State high court set to weigh gay parents' post-split rights
By Howard Mintz
KNIGHT RIDDER
It would seem to be the most ordinary of family court conflicts -- two people in love who decide to have a child, split and then find themselves at war over parental power.
But mix into that equation the difficulty of applying long-standing family laws to same-sex relationships and artificial reproductive technologies, and the result is California's latest legal standoff over gay rights.
With the parental rights of thousands of same-sex couples at stake, the state Supreme Court on Tuesday will consider three custody and child support cases involving lesbian partners who agreed to bear children through sperm and egg donors and then later broke up. The cases give the justices another opportunity to shed light on how they will deal with the civil rights of gay couples as a legal challenge over a state ban on same-sex marriage bears down on the court's docket.
Even with the state's new domestic partnership law establishing firmer rights for gay couples and recent court rulings allowing second-parent adoptions, the Supreme Court's ruling is expected to be crucial for many same-sex couples with children.
"You are going to have people that don't register as domestic partners, just as you have people who don't get married," said San Francisco lawyer Jill Hersh, who represents a Marin County woman seeking to gain parental rights in a case against her former partner. "That's as old as the ages."
The three cases present very different factual scenarios that force the Supreme Court to balance the rights of biological mothers against partners who can stake a claim to parent status because of their bond with the children.
Medical advances further muddy the waters on the traditional definition of parent. For instance, two women can become mothers of a child by one partner donating eggs to the other. By using a surrogate mother and artificial insemination, two men can become parents together.
The appeals courts have been divided on how to proceed, but the Los Angeles-based Second District issued an unprecedented ruling last year finding that a nonbirth mother in a same-sex relationship could have equal parenting rights.
In that case, Lisa Ann is arguing she should have parenting rights equal to those of Kristine Renee, who bore a child through artificial insemination during their 10-year relationship. In the Marin County case, K.M., who donated her eggs to her lesbian partner, E.G., argues that she should be legally recognized as a parent, despite signing a routine form that relinquished her parenting rights when she provided the eggs. The couple raised twin girls together for more than five years before splitting in 2002.
The third case pits Emily B., an El Dorado County woman who bore twins through artificial insemination, against her former partner, Elisa Maria B., who left her partner when the children were 2 years old. Emily, who is backed in the case by Attorney General Bill Lockyer, is seeking child support payments from Elisa, who she argues was committed to raising a family before leaving and is now the equivalent of a deadbeat dad.
"Deadbeat parents are not exclusive to heterosexuals," Emily said in an interview last week.
Since the split with Elisa, Emily has been unable to spend time with Elisa's son, whom she helped parent during their relationship. Emily said she sides with the nonbiological parents in the other two cases who are seeking equal parenting rights.
"Both of them are parents," she said. "They held themselves out to be a family unit. I know what it's like to lose a child."
Elisa's lawyers could not be reached for comment. But in court papers, they argue that there is no basis in current law to force a nonbiological partner in a same-sex relationship to support a child if he or she hadn't adopted the child.
As with the child support issue, the Supreme Court must take laws that have been crafted for heterosexual couples and figure out how they apply to same-sex relationships and the evolving world of sperm and egg donors. For example, under current law, a man is the presumed father if he "receives the child into his home and openly holds the child out as his natural child."
The justices will rule on whether that provision applies to a birth mother's lesbian partner.
In the Los Angeles case, Kristine argues that she has as much right to terminate her partner's role in raising her child as a mother who breaks up with a long-term boyfriend who was not the biological father of her child. Liberty Counsel, a conservative religious organization, has sided with the arguments of biological mothers like Kristine, urging the Supreme Court to reject the arguments of same-sex partners who don't adopt.
But in court papers, lawyers for Lisa Ann say Kristine's position deprives their child, Lauren, of a true parent because Lisa Ann had been identified as a co-parent on everything from birth announcements to financial matters. "This is Lauren's case," Lisa Ann urged the court. "Lauren has two mothers."
K.M., the Marin County woman who donated her eggs to her former partner, E.G., shares the same view as Lisa Ann, although K.M. stakes an additional claim that she has a biological link to their twin daughters. E.G. was infertile, so K.M. donated the eggs and the twins were conceived through artificial insemination.
In a 2003 interview, K.M. told the San Jose Mercury News: "We always knew we would be parenting together. Never, ever, ever would I have dreamed that something like this was possible."
But E.G. argues that it was clear that she would be the sole parent of any child born from the donated eggs. Diana Richmond, E.G.'s attorney, said the subsequent relationship between the women doesn't outweigh the birth mother's right to control custody of her children.
"I think all three cases present parallel issues that give the court a good opportunity to make a consistent standard," Richmond said. "It's going to be a much clearer and familiar atmosphere for same-sex parents to establish parentage, however the court decides these issues."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think it was easier when the stork delivered babies.
-ILAS
Walking down a street in a Southern European country, and seeing all the gorgeous women walking around, some locals were curious about the US, New York in particular. I told them the best New York women weren't equal to the the middle 50th of what I saw in this sun drenched town in Spain.
CBGB,
I appreciate that this is generalizing, but IMHO the actual percentages of good looking to poor lookers is about the same worldwide, depending of course on your personal likes and dislikes.
You might like Dyevs, but there are some really ugly slavic women. You might like Italians, but I have seen plenty of honkers there as well.
As for "Spanish women" they run the gamut from dark, dusky gypsy types, to lily white, blonde, blue eyed Galicians, and everything in-between.
I will grant you that if you have spent your whole life looking at Cinnabon-enhanced fat assed American princess´ the ladies in Europe or elsewhere might just turn your head.
I still maintain that the attitudes are what really distinguish non-AW.
Cheers,
Sporadic
One good thing about American woman is that they come in all nationalities and colors. The average AW that we all hate on isn't blonde and blue eyed and talks in a gum chewing valley girl accent. I have seen china dolls and little miss Moscows that opened their mouth and start talking in braying superior tones and you know they have been indoctrinated/acclimated to the AW way of things. As a man you just get turned off real quickly. Niceness, female grace, and class are lacking here and in abundance outside US borders.
Now with that being said some issues come to mind. Foreign chicks are very appealing as they retain that class and dignity that AW's don't know anything about since the MTV era portrays it as not cool. Cursing, celebrityism, and materialism are the main values here. On the streets of NYC chicks learn quick to not smile and be as unfeminine as possible. The ***** shield is in full effect. As a man you dont exist here often. There has been times when I got looks that would freeze my blood just for tilting my head. One guy I know from Albania remarked on woman being so unwomanly here and made the observation that "all the woman here think men want to bang them and hate us for it".
Attitude and culture are important factors in a woman's behavior. American and British women tend to be materialistic, status climbing, and superficial. Australian women are different(even though their culture is similar to America/Great Britain), most are down to earth and outgoing, they want to know what type of person you are rather than what you do for a living. A lot of women in different countries vary in their attitude. There are plenty of Asian women who are as obsessed with money and status as Americans and British. I live in New York, which has a large Asian population, mostly Korean and Chinese, and most of the Asian women of Korean and Chinese origin I knew always went after money(Thai and SE Asians were a lot different from their Northern counterparts). Someone I knew from Turkey said the same of beautiful Turkish women, they go after money. The biggest bit*ch I ever met actually came from Hong Kong, an Indian woman whose parents lived in HK, she immigrated to the US and became an American citizen, she was one of the most shallow people I ever met. German women, coming from a country that makes $100,000 cars, tend to be the least materialistic of all European women, which is kind of ironic considering Germany's affluence.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur](Thai and SE Asians were a lot different from their Northern counterparts)[/QUOTE]
In Thailand and SE Asia there is a TON of emphasis on money -- this is one of the flaws of your analysis, and it's why I agree with Sporadic that it's absolutely attitude that counts most. And money given to them equates to increased face and to social status, so the idea that women there somehow not about social climbing while Americans and Brits are is hooey. Yes, Thai and SE Asian women there will absolutely turn your head with attention, pampering, total focus on your needs, etc., but saying they're not interested in/focused on your money is beyond ridiculous -- everything there is all about support of the family, with family being defined as anyone even loosely related, and to keep the affection coming the money has to keep flowing (and I'm not talking just about P4P scenarios.) "Love" and the slaving attention to your needs that blows western guys away and makes them lose their heads is very directly connected to monetary support, and a lack of money winding to the family is seen as evidence of lack of a guy's true affection.
And the truth is, most guys here are every bit as shallow and bad as the women they criticize in terms of being focused on the almighty dollar. They just object to the idea that they would have to part with some portion more than they want in order to get laid, despite the fact that most aren't anywhere near as "hot" as they expect their women to be, and their attitudes are anything but endearing or respectful. If all you want to bring to the table is your dick and your sense that women are there only to serve your needs then that dick damn well [i]better[/i] be liberally wrapped in cash.
I have a question for you, Joe. Consider this scenario between Airline ABC & Airline XYZ.
Airline ABC charges $430 round trip from NY to LA on a 17 year old airplane, does not provide an in-flight meal, & makes you pay for head phones so that you can listen to the in-flight movie.
Airline XYZ charges $325 round trip from NY to LA on a 4 year old airplane, provides an in-flight meal, & has 35-station satellite TV in the seat directly in front of you so you can watch whatever you want to, including complementary headphones.
My question is in your opinion, which Airline would be the wiser choice? I’m going to go out on a limb & say that you will choose Airline XYZ because it’s a better value for the service provided.
Now consider the following comparison:
Scenario #1 - The expense, social expectations, legal ramifications & the return on investment associated with dating AW.
Scenario #2 - The expense, social expectations, legal ramifications & the return on investment associated with dating foreign women.
I'm sure most people here know that money is involved in any relationship with any woman, American or foreign. We're mongers, & for most of us that is why we choose to be mongers in the first place. But, according to your statement in post #2455:
…Thai and SE Asian women there will absolutely turn your head with attention, pampering, total focus on your needs, etc.… "Love" and the slaving attention to your needs that blows western guys away and makes them lose their heads is very directly connected to monetary support…
I’ve only been to Japan, which is more expensive than the US. But from what I read in traditional publications, as well as the postings on this board, I gather that many other Asian countries are dirt cheap compared to the US.
So if a man would be wiser for choosing one airline over another because that airline provides better service for a cheaper price, wouldn’t that same man be wiser for choosing one woman over another, foreign or domestic, who offers better service for a cheaper price?
AW want value; most of them love to take advantage of sales discounts. So what’s wrong with a man wanting to get a sales discount on the pussy? I think to do so is the stamp of a wise & prudent fellow.
ILAS
American Women Suck – now & forever
I have been to 29 countries and fucked women from 26 countries that I know of and Paraguayan women overall are the best fucks I have found. That has nothing to do with the subject at hand but I wanted to give them the credit they deserve. Méxican women can be super good but the median or average is not that high. Chileans are very good based on a relatively small sample size of six.
British women are the worst fucks I have found. This is merely my own personal opinion based on my own experience which is somewhat extensive (and was somewhat expensive as well).
1. you reduce everything to your control of your checkbook which is selfish and not very romantic.
2. you do not appreciate the good points many AW have and, having been burnt, you dare not sip from the chalice of love again.
Point 1] If I DON'T pay attention to my checkbook SHE will certainly do so FOR ME, thereby draining me dry in order for me to finance her trysts with other guys and shopping trips and whatnot.
Point 2] WHAT GOOD POINTS? So many times I've listened to female friends and acquaintances who bitched about their men, but when I observed them in the company of other friends WITHOUT their S.O. present, I got the true story. It all boils down to wanting to be in the position of power to get her way and HER WAY ONLY.
My best friend, whom I love dearly, cheated on her hubby. Granted, he was an emotional clam, but she cheated on him in less than two years of marriage! She finally left him after about 4-5 years. She was (and still is) very materialistic, always occupied with the material things hubby bought her. If she wasn't doing THAT, she was planning on getting him to loosen his wallet to get her MORE STUFF. I have NEVER heard a woman say what she did or would do for her S.O., as if that was something a man is supposed to do for a woman. In that case, what is NOT said reveals a woman's nature. I'll be DAMNED if I feed her my innermost emotions into what would amount to a botomless black hole, never to be rewarded for my effort. I refuse to drink from a poisoned chalice....
Joe, I live in Sydney Australia. Sydney has a sizeable Asian population, there are many people from different Asian countries that in this city. I know a lot of women from Southeast Asia and I have found them to be very approachable and much nicer than women who come from the more wealthier Asian countries like Japan and South Korea. I am not wealthy in anyway, I consider myself to earn an average income, I consider myself fairly good looking and athletic but was never good with money. Compared to women from the more affluent Asian countries like Japan and South Korea, I thought the Southeast Asian women I met were a lot less arrrogant and status oriented at least IMHO. There are large numbers of women from Thailand, Vietnam, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, and the Phillipines living in my area of Sydney. Women from Japan, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and S. Korea almost always have boyfriends(who are also Asian) who drive BMWs and Benzes(which cost over $100K in Ozzie twice what they cost in America) who have bottomless bank accounts. The SE Asian women aren't as stuck up as the Korean and Japanese women I have met, the latter tend to be very affluent. In fact if I compare an Australian woman of European/Anglo-Celtic origin, they are far more approachable than some of the Japanese and Korean ladies who are really stuck up nose in the air types, they are also racist as hell, a African American friend of mine got some really unfriendly looks in a Japanese restaurant where we had dinner, when we went to a Vietnamese place the waitresses there treated him with respect.
I don't disagree that there's a lesser amount of arrogance from SE Asian women, but that still doesn't mean that money isn't an important issue and consideration for them. Of course, when you consider general economics, wealth is a very relative thing -- life is far cheaper in SE Asia than in Japan or Korea, so it doesn't take much in a western context to provide for a family. Saying it doesn't take as much to make them happy is different from saying it's not an issue. I also agree that there's a lot more xenophobia from the north, but again, it's relative -- Thais, for example, take the issue of who is and isn't Thai very seriously (you can't become a citizen unless you can prove you've got Thai DNA.) The racism thing regarding dark skin is also something you can find often and easily in SE Asia; it simply manifests itself differently, as the cultures have a more ingrained sense of not wanting to give offense.
And I absolutely loved the Asian influence I found in Sydney (spent a lot of time in the Garden of Friendship while I was there, for example) with its lovely amalgam and mix, but it is a bit different than being in the cultures directly. I'm also with you as far as Aussie women go, as I enjoyed them immensely.
[QUOTE=Mike12] One guy I know from Albania remarked on woman being so unwomanly here and made the observation that "all the woman here think men want to bang them and hate us for it".[/QUOTE]It is iteresting that you say that because I have a lot of Hispanic & Haitian friends (I live in SE Florida) who are always telling me about how great their women are. They love the US because of the economic opportunities, & they have plenty of male American friends, but they do not like AW at all. They are always telling me, "you need to get yourself a Hispanic girl/Haitian girl. They will take good care of you".
I know that Americans tend to be insular & arrogant in our thinking, so it is necessary sometimes to obtain an outsider's perspective. And since the immigrants have first-hand experience with both countries, I tend to lend more weight to their comparisons. Funny thing is, when immigrants make the comparison between AW & the women from their country of origin, immigrants make the same observations about AW that I have made, letting me know that it's not just me.
It seems that once the immigrants arrive in the US, they still want the American dream, but not the American woman.
ILAS
American Women Suck - the whole world knows it
"One good thing about American woman is that they come in all nationalities"
Umm, no, by definition.
Not sure if this clip was seen yet but I found it intesting how the American guy said his Columbian wife became "Americanized". I guess you American guys do speak some fact here.
[url]http://www.latinlifemates.com/fox-tv-special.asp[/url]
Thanks for posting that video clip. I found it to very insightful.
Isn’t it amazing that today there is an industry which profits from sending American men to other countries just so they can find a decent woman to marry? There is no way in hell a business like this would have gotten off the ground back during the President Eisenhower era; men would have laughed at you. How times have changed.
ILAS
That video clip was very interesting. I was surprised, however that the guy was once married to a Colombian chick who became Americanized. I wonder if he thinks his next choice isn't susceptible to the phenomenon of "Americanization". My heart goes out to him, though...
Most of the "Dating Services" I have seen are all scams, honestly, its not difficult to meet wonderful women in foreign countries, and getting a phone number from a woman is as easy as simply asking for it. There are many venues where you can meet women. In Europe, I have met a lot of ladies just simply walking the streets, women aren't afraid to approach you and vice versa, a lot of European women aren't neccesarily ready to jump on you to get a VISA to the US because the living standard, at least in Western Europe, is comparable to the US. The situation maybe different in the EE/CIS countries, but even many Eastern European women I have met don't have a desire to leave home, particularly those from the Czech Republic and Hungary, which are the more modern of Eastern European countries.
Greetings all,
Not all dating services are a scam. I joined one a little over a year ago and was able to make contacts with a good number of super-hot girls.
Some of them were scammers and visa-hunters, to be sure. But, there were lot's of them that seemed to be on the level. The site had a chat feature and I would often be able to chat with any number of attractive young women.
It was such a good experience that I eventually went to visit one of these girls in her own country. It wasn't easy to decide where to go because I had 3 really good ones to choose from. The girl I met exceeded my expectations in pretty much every way imaginable, so I'd have to say it was worth the trip.
I seriously doubt that I could get with this level of woman here. A dating service isn't the only way to go, but it can give you a chance. That's way better than the chance you have of finding a good looking cheerful and trustworthy woman here at home.
Rock
ps. I liked her so much I married her.
pps. She's living here with me now, things are going very well and that's the
reason why I haven't been posting much lately.
American women just are not orgasmic enough. You have to all but paint them green. Maybe they are hung up from religion. Maybe they don't masturbate enough. Maybe they are so fat their clitorises become hidden. Maybe many American men are inept so they don't get into the habit of coming. All I know is my techniques and procedures haven't changed and the percentage of my bed partners who obviously orgasm has increased dramatically. Also simultaneous or near simultaneous (mutual) orgasms are much more frequent. And no, they aren't faking (not to say that women here never fake cuz they do but I know the difference) cuz spasms and fluids don't lie.
But still stay away from here because of the rats and snakes and earthquakes and floods and machine gun toting cops and stuff.
[QUOTE=Rock Dog]
ps. I liked her so much I married her.
pps. She's living here with me now, things are going very well and that's the
reason why I haven't been posting much lately.[/QUOTE]
Can you share with us from which country is she?
And are you taking any steps to keep her from becoming americanized?
How long have you been in the US with your new wife? I ask because I read somewhere (I do not remeber where) that the 3-year mark is when they begin to convert to the American way of thinking .
Just Curious. Best of luck
ILAS
Rats, snakes, and machine gun toting cops? Are you sure you're talking about Argentina? From what I heard, its supposed to be the Switzerland of South America. When talking about Buenos Aires, an Australian friend, said Paris is the Buenos Aires of Europe. With those kinds of comments it can't be too bad.
No CBGB, Argentina have some of the best public relations firm is the world in order to perpetuate these myths. Personally I found the "rats and snakes and earthquakes and floods and machine gun toting cops" to be the easiest things to deal with. The hard part was the crazy pimps prone to castration when the Johns wouldn't give them 10 times the agreed upon rate.
STAY AWAY, STAY AWAY It's not civalized like OZ at all. If you do come make sure you hire body guards at the security booth in the airport. It's on the left as you leave customs. Also the water is so bad that even the rain will make you sick. Get your shots before you come.
[QUOTE=Iloveanalsex]How long have you been in the US with your new wife? I ask because I read somewhere (I do not remeber where) that the 3-year mark is when they begin to convert to the American way of thinking .
Just Curious. Best of luck
ILAS[/QUOTE]
ILAS,
I believe the three year mark has to do with the fact that their conditional permanent resident status is removed after 2 yrs from the date of entry into the US. At that point they cannot be deported if divorced, therefore the incentives to cater to horny hubby's needs rapidly decline. They soon begin to Americanize and there isn't a thing that can stop them from assimilating then. They are now legal permanent residents with the right to put their husband's balls in a purse or pickle jar if they so desire.
The women who aren't very smart usually show signs of Americanization within 6 months of arriving when they can be divorced and deported when their 2 year condition permanent resident status expires. The others who do their home work know that they have to wait a bit longer. That is always the risk that you take when importing a wife. Anyway, who knows? Rock might have struck gold.
Marriage within the US is fraught with risks regardless of where the woman originates from. Unless you live somewhere out in the wilderness I just don't see how you can prevent American women from "educating" your immigrant wife.
If you guys wanna see a funny example of the Americanization of a female, (educated by her American counterparts) watch the Eddie Murphy concert movie "Raw". It's funny as shit, but true to the letter....
That's why you shouldn't take them back home with you. A lot of the reasons American women are the way they are is due to American culture and society. Take them back to the middle of nowhere. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable bringing back women to Australia because Australian society doesn't value success and wealth as it is in the States.
The biggest example of an Americanized foreign woman has to be Gisele Bundchen, who is Brazilian. She showed up in Forbes as one of the richest entertainers, making over $15 million a year.
(Hmmm.... I wonder why this is happening?)
Wednesday, June 15, 2005
By Wendy McElroy
Some researchers call them the "Lost Boys." They are the students you don't see on college campuses.
The National Center for Education Statistics (NCES) tracks the enrollment in all degree-granting institutions by sex. From 1992 to 2000, the ratio of enrolled males to females fell from 82 to 78 boys for every 100 girls. The NCES projects that in 2007 the ratio will be 75 males for every 100 females; in 2012, 74 per 100.
In short, your son is statistically more likely than your daughter to work a blue collar job.
Thomas Mortenson, senior scholar at the Pell Institute for the Study of Opportunity in Higher Education, argues that leaving a generation of boys behind hurts women as well. In a Business Week cover story, Mortenson observed, "My belief is that until women decide that the education of boys is a serious issue, nothing is going to happen."
He believes some women feel threatened by even admitting the problem because "it will take away from the progress of women...What everyone needs to realize is that if boys continue to slide, women will lose too."
That realization still seems distant among educational experts, who continue to downplay the NCES statistic as well as other data that indicate schools are hurting boys.
Jacqueline King — author of the influential study "Gender Equity in Higher Education: Are Male Students at a Disadvantage?"— is an example. She found that 68 percent of college enrollees from low-income families were female; only 31 percent were male.
Yet King insists there is no "boy crisis" in education despite the fact that data from Upward Bound and Talent Search show a comparable gender gap. (These college-preparation programs operate in high schools and received $312.6 million $144.9 million in tax funding, respectively, in 2005.) Of the students who receive benefits from those college-preparation programs, approximately 61 percent are girls; 39 percent are boys.
King's quoted explanation of the gender gaps: "women make up a disproportionate share of low-income students" who go on to college. Since low-income families presumably give birth to boys in the same ratio as the general population— worldwide the ratio is between 103 to 107 boys for every 100 girls — why are so few boys applying for assistance? A higher drop-out rate might be partly responsible, or boys may have no interest in higher education.
King comments on the latter explanation: "male low-income students have some ability in this strong economy to make a decent living with just a high-school diploma." In particular, she points to the construction industry.
King may be correct. The fact that low-income boys gravitate toward manual labor may account for some of the educational gender disparity. What is striking, however, is her apparent dismissal of that disparity as important. She seems to accept the reality that far fewer men than women enroll in college and that poor boys enter "the trades" while poor girls become professionals.
Imagine the gender ratio being reversed, with 78 girls for every 100 boys entering college. Imagine a generation of poor girls being relegated to low social status labor while tax funding assists poor boys. It is difficult to believe King would be similarly unconcerned.
Nevertheless, merely by acknowledging the situation, King shows far more balance than prominent voices, like the American Association of University Women, which still maintains there is a "girl crisis."
Fortunately, researchers like Judith Kleinfeld of the University of Alaska see that boys are in distress.
Kleinfeld — author of "The Myth That Schools Shortchange Girls" — states, "In my own college classes, I see a sea change in the behavior of young men. In the 1980s, the young men talked in my classes about the same as young women. I know because each semester I measured male and female talk. Now so many young men are disengaged that the more articulate, ambitious women dominate the classroom ....and my office hours."
Kleinfeld tried to trace the problem backward by interviewing high school students on plans for their future. She states, "The young women almost always have a clear, realistic plan—-go to college, have a career, often directed toward an idealistic goals about improving the environment."
This clarity of vision and was generally absent in young men.
Among those who acknowledge the "boy crisis," explanations are vary and may all be true. Some point to the "feminization" of education over the last decade, which occurred largely in response to a perceived need to encourage girls. But, if boys and girls learn differently, then the changes may be placing boys at a disadvantage.
Others point to explicitly anti-male attitudes — that is, political correctness — within education. The website Illinois Loop lists "22 School Practices That May Harm Boys." One of them: "'Modern' textbooks and recommended literature often go to extremes to remove male role models as lead characters and examples."
Kleinfeld points speculatively to the impact of increased divorce and fatherless homes on the self-image of boys who lack a positive male role-model.
Approximately 40 percent of American children now live in homes without their own biological father.
Ultimately, explanations of and solutions to the "boy crisis" will come from exploring a combination of factors. My solution: privatize education and place it under the control of parents or adult students.
The first step to any solution, however, is to acknowledge there is a problem. We are not quite there yet.
Chocha,
I did not know about the 2-year conditional resident status thing. It all makes sense now; I learned something today.
I tell you women can really be slick. I just don’t know how women, as cute as they sometimes are, can be so damned devious. I guess I’ll never understand that one.
Btw, I remember the Eddie Murphy comedy video that Sinanju was referring to. It is hilarious. And to think we still have the same issue 2 decades later. What a shame.
ILAS
The biggest and most famous example of a foreign woman turning renegade is Ivana Trump. When Ivana filed to divorce Donald Trump, she demanded a Billion dollars from her husband. At first Trump did not want to give in, but on the advice of his lawyers he was told that it was the best option because she might have sued for more. So Trump called Ivana and told her that he would give her a bank certified check for a billion dollars. You want to know her response? She said she did not want a check instead, she wanted a billion dollars in 1 dollar bills, that's correct this b*itch wanted a billion dollars in 1 dollar bills. It took Trump and his lawyers a month to convince the United States Treasury to print a billion 1 dollar notes. Many poor workers at the US treasury had to work double overtime in order to complete the request, which took 48 days to finish. When it was done Trump called an armored car service, they asked him how he wanted the money to be delivered. Trump said he didn't care, he even said it was okay to dump it on Ivana's front lawn of her Miami estate. A convoy of 128 armored cars delivered the money to Ivana Trump's address in Florida. When the convoy arrived, Ivana refused to take delivery of the money, she then phoned up Donald Trump, and told him "You know what? I changed my mind, I don't want a billion one dollar bills, just send me a certified check.". Yes so big time stinkers like Ivana Trump can be found abroad too. The best advice, don't bring them back to the States.
I was watching NBC News at 6PM today & they were discussing the Michael Jackson verdict with the prosecuting attorney. The story mentioned that the jury did not believe the story & felt that the mother may have put the boy up to it in order to extort money from Jackson. When the prosecutor was asked about the jury’s perception of the mother, his response included that she had been the victim of domestic violence.
Now I did not follow the Jackson case closely, so I am trying to give the prosecutor the benefit of the doubt, but I thought this case was about alcohol & child molestation. When did mom’s domestic violence come into it?
My question is if anyone on here knows what domestic violence had to do with mom’s credibility on the witness stand? I could be wrong, but I have a sneaky suspicion that this is an attempt by the State to justify their failure to win a conviction in this case by using the “women are always victims” tactic. The idea that mom could be a liar & the eight women & four men on the jury saw through her charade could not possibly be the reason they did not believe the story. Of course not; the jury was somehow blinded by mom’s past subjection to domestic violence!
My God, US women can’t even lose a case in court without someone trying to use some psychological buzzword to explain it away.
Also today, the Florida Medical Examiner’s autopsy findings completely exonerated Terri Shiavo’s husband of any wrongdoing, and of course there has not been any response by Terri’s parents or siblings about the autopsy findings even though they demonized this calling him a spouse abuser, womanizer & anything else they could think of (It’s amazing how silence overcomes the noisy once the truth comes out).
I’m just waiting for someone else in this country to attempt to counter the autopsy findings & explain to the rest of us why they should not have removed the feeding tube from a 15-year brain dead patient with her legally married husbands consent. Now, the autopsy shows that she was not abused, so domestic violence is not a viable ploy. I got it! Maybe Terri was suffering from post-partum depression at the time they removed her feeding tube. Surely that will make Terri a victim once again in the eyes of our “women are always victims” society.
ILAS
American Women Suck – and society isn’t helping it any.
That story is complete bullshit.
Ivana Trump got $25mil from "The Donald" after thirteen years of being married, because of a pre-nup. That's pretty small potatoes from a billionaire.
I saw a similar story (Long's college article) but it was oriented more towards the college social life-basically, in the man deficient environment, girls compete aggressively for boyfiriends, and even basically engage in public lesbian behavior in order to get the attention of men. Maybe I should go and pick up that PhD before splitting the country. I likes me some coeds (but not what they balloon into unfortunately).
Incidently, I'm also aware of another coping mechanism that is I'm sure partially inspired by the above mentioned deficiency. There is a class of girls that have evolved on college campuses who are known as LUGs...that is (L)esbians (U)ntil (G)raduation. Basically, they dyke it out all over the place for four years, and forego all of the terrible difficulties that men cause them, and then after graduating, switch teams, and start hunting for a guy to give them babies and a white pickett fence. It's good to know that we can be eliminated, even on a short term basis.
One other thing. Where I live (the sticks), don't so much see the sexless career women that you guys describe, as pretty much well...hillbilly chicks (the world would be a better place if they were sexless, instead of replicating themselves and the local losers 3-8 times each. I'm not kidding about the 8 incidently). However, in a major bookstore chain, I laughed my head off as I saw exactly what you guys were talking about (I used to work downtown Chicago, but it's been several years). There was this obvious dressed down career women (with her own big silver cofee mug), and if she could have possibly radiated any less femininity, I can't imagine how.
CbGb you have been misinformed. The Donald kept the Florida estate and Ivana did get something like 25 million.
However in this mongerers estimation, $25,000,000.00 was a lot of money for bearing two kids and having brazilian waxes done. I don't care if she was having to fuck that ugly prick, 25 million bucks is a shitload of money when you weren't going to the office to make it. I also could give a good fuck less how much money the ex is worth it's a shitload. I'm also not interested in how she helped him make by helping maintain his network, a good secretary could do the same for a lot less severance.
Let's see, that's almost 2 million/year (actually, it's 1.923 million/yr).
Now I don't earn 1.923 million per year, so that's a nice sum of money in my eyes. In fact, most people, single or married, will not earn 1.923 million in a lifetime.
Maybe if I were a millionaire, I would feel Ivanna's pain & wonder how she could live on such a paltry sum of money.
Then again, maybe I'm in the minority & this board is full of aristocrats.
CBGB, sorry, but you are yet another taken in by an urban legend.
There are dozens of myth debunking websites if you are interested, but this is a cute introduction.
[url]www.science.howstuffworks.com/urban-legend.htm[/url]
Cheers,
Sporadic
Here's an atricle that I found to be interesting. I've posted the link in case you want to read the article at the Fox News website: [url]http: //www. foxnews. com/story/0, 2933, 158227, 00. html[/url]
Fathers' Rights Victory In Massachusetts Wednesday, June 01, 2005 By Wendy McElroy
A determined father in Massachusetts has delivered an early Father's Day gift to non-custodial parents, the overwhelming majority of whom are dads.
Dr. Henry M. Fassler has successfully contested a 1998 Massachusetts law that requires a non-custodial parent to have court certification as a non-batterer on a yearly basis before he (or she) is allowed access to their children's school records. The school system currently views all non-custodial parents as guilty of battery until proven innocent. But all that is going to change.
The specifics of Fassler's case: he wanted to see the academic class list for his 17-year-old daughter Lindsay, who had asked him for help. No charge or complaint had ever been filed against Fassler; he is on good terms with his ex-wife and children.
When the school refused the class list, Fassler not only got angry, he also got active. Last October, he complained to the Family Policy Compliance Office at the U. S. Department of Education, challenging the statute as discriminatory. On May 6, the DOE sent a letter to Massachusetts' Education Commissioner David P. Driscoll, which warned that "the commonwealth and every school district in Massachusetts is in violation of federal law, and has been for years. "
The letter explained, "non-custodial parents cannot be denied access to school records unless there is evidence those 'rights have been specifically revoked'. " The government cannot stand between parent and child when no evidence of abuse is present.
Father's rights advocates had fought against the law since its passage. (Indeed, Fassler belongs to Fathers and Families, a leading voice in that battle.) Suddenly, however, with millions in federal funding at stake, Driscoll has indicated that a "new policy" will treat divorced parents more fairly.
The struggle in Massachusetts for non-custodial rights offers both hope and lessons to divorced parents across North America.
One lesson is cautionary: even well-intended laws can be hijacked and used for unintended political purposes. This one fact alone should prejudice reformers in favor of repealing bad laws rather than stacking the new ones ever higher.
According to Fassler, the 1998 statute was first pushed by father's advocates who wanted to clarify their parental right to school records. Then, anti-domestic violence groups -- especially a Boston-based victims advocacy group, Jane Doe Inc. (JDI) -- amended the measure to make a distinction between custodial and non-custodial parents. Fassler claims the changes converted the statute into an "abuse-prevention bill" that discriminated against the very fathers who suggested it.
JDI has a history of receiving large tax-funded contracts to handle the training and other assistance necessary to implement anti-abuse programs in Massachusetts; it seems natural to assume that JDI wielded influence over the policy-makers with whom it has established a long and remunerative partnership. Nancy Scannell of JDI helped to draft the statute.
By contrast, the father's rights advocates against whom JDI is often pitted consist almost entirely of volunteers.
This is another lesson from the Massachusetts struggle. Grassroots organizations and actions can prevail over generously tax-funded agencies, but it is crucial to "follow the money. " The crusade against the 1998 statute won out only when Fassler called federal funding into question.
But following the money means more than this; the tax-funding of JDI should be tracked and made public. As taxpayers, fathers have a right to know how such funds are dispensed and to expose any political bias in the granting of contracts.
Moreover, any organization that will profit from a legislative measure should be excluded from drafting it. The exclusion is important. The Boston Globe quotes Scannell as saying she "will eagerly participate in any discussion to rewrite the bill. " If the "non-profit" JDI will eagerly cash checks based on such a rewrite, then JDI should not shape its language.
Yet, despite words of caution, the news from Massachusetts is heartening. Non-custodial parents will no longer be viewed as abusive until proven innocent. Fathers can play a greater role in their children's academic lives.
Radio host Glenn Sacks, who campaigned against the 1998 statute, explains the importance of a father's presence. "As a former high school teacher…I could teach a class for a few weeks and then have a pretty good idea which kids had fathers in their lives and which ones didn't. I had few discipline problems…but I always knew that there was one truly effective way to get an errant boy to change his ways--call his dad and explain…that he needs to leave work and come to the school to talk to me about his son's behavior. It was 100 percent effective. "
That option may now be available to all of Massachusetts' teachers, parents, and children.
Wendy McElroy is the editor of ifeminists. com and a research fellow for The Independent Institute in Oakland, Calif. She is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, "Liberty for Women: Freedom and Feminism in the 21st Century" (Ivan R. Dee/Independent Institute, 2002). She lives with her husband in Canada.
maybe desiree nall lied because she's a victim of domestic violence.
i used to live in brevard county, florida (that's where i got my first divorce. here's the link: [url]http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,153969,00.html[/url]
false [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] claim hurts real victims
wednesday, april 20, 2005
by wendy mcelroy
on april 8, the president of the brevard, fla., chapter of the national organization for women was charged by the florida state attorney's office with filing a false [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] report and making a false official statement.
she could be imprisoned for one year on each count and forced to pay for the police investigation she incurred. the case has far-reaching implications for gender politics and for women who report sexual assault in the future.
the facts are as follows. on nov. 17, 2004, part-time rollins college student desiree nall reported being raped in a campus bathroom by two men. the winter park police department put rollins on ‘high alert,’ advising students to remain indoors when possible.
the dean immediately dispatched a campus-wide email to assure students that extra security measures were being taken.
in a sandspur article entitled "a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] hoax is no way to get attention,"jean bernard chery relates how the incident impacted campus life.
"it was a nightmare for every female student and faculty/staff at rollins. they were afraid to go to the bathroom or walk on campus alone after dusk….the incident prompted a candlelight vigil on campus in support of the alleged victim [then unnamed]," chery wrote.
the police had reason for skepticism. nall could not assist with composite sketches, offered inconsistent details and did not wish to press charges. an examination at a sexual assault treatment center after the alleged attack produced no evidence of foreign dna.
due to publicity and campus panic, however, a police investigation continued at a final estimated cost of more than $50,000. the report of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] was judged a hoax.
according to police, on nov. 19,nall phoned and asked to have the case dropped. when detective jon askins questioned her original report, nall reportedly confessed that she was "not a victim of a sexual batter." the police speculate that nall, a vocal feminist, may have been trying to "make a statement" about violence against women. the allege raped occurred during sexual assault awareness week, which was intended to highlight the issue of sexual violence against women.
jeff nall, desiree’s husband, has been speaking publicly on her behalf. he claims the charges will be appealed on the grounds that an attempted assault did occur. he denies that she confessed to lying. he claims she has been targeted by police because "she is a women's-rights activist."
he also distances now from the unfolding fiasco by pointing out that his wife became a chapter president only recently, prior to the incident. moreover, according to one article in the sandspur, he argues "that sexual assault cases such as this are not one of the platforms of now."
now apparently wishes to maintain distance as well. as of monday, searching it’s website for the term "nall" returns no results. after all, now has argued that women do not lie about [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]. catharine mackinnon--a founding mother of the gender feminism that now promotes -- stated in her book, feminism unmodified, "the reason feminism uncovered this reality [of male oppression], its methodological secret, is that feminism is built on believing women's accounts of sexual use and abuse by men."
if this methodology is debunked, if women are viewed as no more or less likely to lie than men, then the foundation of gender politics collapses.
it is premature and grandiose, however, to see the collapse of gender feminism within the nall news story. a false account of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] in a bathroom is a much smaller and more tawdry tale: a tempest in a toilet.
assuming that nall lied, she has achieved the opposite of what i believe she intended. by "crying [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]" she has made every woman who is a victim less credible and less likely to receive justice from the police or the public. she has made women less safe.
rollins student elizabeth humphrey states the point simply: "lying about that story is absolutely horrible because women are victimized every day. and if we get the reputation of lying, then people won't start to believe us if it does happen."
instead of publicizing sexual violence against women, nall has spotlighted the problem of false accusations against men. her case also raises the question of whether now-style feminists encourage false accusations when they flatly insist that women must be believed.
in the ‘60s, feminists fought to have [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] taken seriously. but taking an accusation seriously is not the same as granting it automatic validity. rather, it means investigating the facts and weighing them in an unbiased manner that favors no one and nothing but the truth.
a lot of ugly truth may surface in the coming months. the state of florida seems determined to pursue its case against nall, who seems determined to fight back.
winter park sgt. pam marcum explained to the orlando sentinel that bringing charges against nall had taken so long because the police department sought a second opinion from the state attorney’s office. it is rare for those who file false reports of sexual abuse to be prosecuted. in short, the prosecution is carefully constructing a case; the defense is loudly crying ‘political persecution!’ in the process, the definition and legal status of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] within our society continues to evolve.
where it comes to rest depends largely upon the honesty-- not the now-like silence -- with which women confront the problem of false accusations.
wendy mcelroy is the editor of ifeminists.com and a research fellow for the independent institute in oakland, calif. she is the author and editor of many books and articles, including the new book, "liberty for women: freedom and feminism in the 21st century" (ivan r. dee/independent institute, 2002). she lives with her husband in canada.
If they had sex twice a week it works out to $18,491 per fuck. Hell, if they had sex every dang day it is $5,283 per fuck. That is $15,057 Argentinean pesos so I could fuck Pandora 125 times a day. Or I could go to Oba Oba for 1,004 half hour sessions per day. Oh, wait a minute; there are only 48 half hours in a day. And Pandora is probably already getting fucked 125 times a day.
Personally for $5,283 a day I would go to Amsterdam and get Yab Yum's limousine filled with a wide ethnic variety of chicas, get some monster dope, and just drive around all day buried in pussy. It's hard to run a financial empire that way, though.
If you think american women are bad you should meet british women. Polyester is not sexy. Really.
Its quite funny, I come back to the forum after 6 months and the first post I see is from Dickhead, some things never change!
Anyway, I totally agree with Dickhead, stay away from Argentina, its really dangerous, the pimps are evil, the pr is overblown, prices are overinflated, girls aren't that great either. I know, I've been there.
Recommend you go to Chile instead.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur] Many poor workers at the US treasury had to work double overtime in order to complete the request, which took 48 days to finish.[.quote]I think CBGBConnisur got this part all wrong too. Since when are the federal workers at the US Treasury considered poor? I think the average starting wage is about $20 an hour and with all that overtime they probably all bought new cars that year. And what would Ivana have done with all those $1 dollar bills? Think and verify before you write anything, dude.
$5000 would pay to spend some time with a bunch of Yab Yum women for the entire day? I would be surprised about that, I bet the real cost would be $50,000 plus.
But then you thought Ivana got a billion dollars, specially printed by the US treasury. So, Yab Yum probably would charge [b]you[/b] $50,000. Anyway the dope would put me to sleep after a couple of hours and then if I had any money left they would just steal it so I don't see where it is a problem as long as I save 40 Euros for a hostel every day.
Tell you what. You go to their website and send them a message saying you want five hookers for all day for 5,000 Euros and do it in English. I will do the same thing in Dutch and we will see what they say.
Honestly, I would rather rent Cafe Foto in Sao Paulo or K5 in Prague for a weekend with that much cash. The Prague women completely blow away the women in Amsterdam.
Well, to get back on topic, why is it that all American women, including my ex-wife were seriously twisted? With the notable exception of my Mother (yours too!), it goes without saying. ;)
In my case, when I look back at the good old USA from the perspective of a 25 year expat, I am very saddened. Oh, how things have changed.
A wise friend of mine once asked me, "have they changed, or have you?"
Damn good question.
Cheers,
Sporadic
Longstroker and ILAS,
Thanks for the recent kind words and sorry about the delay in posting.
The question was asked about what steps I had taken to prevent the "americanization" of my new wife. I think there are some things that can be done.
First, selection is everything. I went through a LOT of women before I decided which one was right for me. Just like you have to taste a few mediocre wines before you can know a good one, so it is with women.
Second, I had an age cutoff point of 25 years old. Any younger than this and it will be too easy for most women to take on some of the more undesirable aspects of our western culture. My theory is that the older the girl, the more set in her ways she will be. Her traditional culture and values should hopefully be more deeply ingrained.
Third, I chose a girl that already had a decent (by local standards) job. It's been my experience that girls claiming to be students, models or hairdressers are usually part-time hookers. A girl with a regular job is way more likely to appreciate your money and what it takes for you to earn it.
Fourth, I took a lot of time to get to know my girl. That meant long hours at 1 AM chatting online, hundreds of dollars in phone bills and 2 separate trips to go visit her in her own country. Unlike those guys in that video clip that went down to Colombia and blindly picked out some chica because she was the prettiest one in the room.
While I was there for my visits, I met many of her friends and most of her family as well. Often times, a girls friends and family can tell you a lot about what kind of person she is.
Now that she is here with me, I encourage her to spend her social time with some people from her country that happen to live here. I subtly discourage her from making too many friends with the girls that live around here.
All in all, if it's gonna happen, it will eventually. The best policy is probably prevention by picking a woman who will be less susceptible to our bad western influences.
Hope this helps out anyone who is looking to do the same as I did.
Rock
Even though I have had two failed marriages, I am not anti-marriage. My parents are still married after 35 years, their only marriage, high school sweethearts. Now I do recognize that my parents are from a different generation. Nonetheless, I still believe that marriage can work for generation-Xers, so I wish you the best, Rock.
A few days ago while having a cup of my favorite brew at a coffee shop I was reminded why I have nothing to do with American women.
Maybe it was the caffeine that caused them to chatter so freely, but I couldn't believe what I was hearing. None in the group was over a 7 on a scale of 10, but neither were they obese either. It would be safe to say that they all were under 26 yrs of age.
They were talking about how lame guys were for buying them lunch or asking them out on a date. They criticized the physical attributes of particular men and laughed in amusement. Every man who made an attempt to get to know them was considered a stalker. Compliments on their dress or hair were seen as supplications for access to their vaginas. It seemed that these women grew happier and felt better about themselves by the minute as they busted balls.
I felt concerned, not for myself but for the unsuspecting men who were going to try date these women. The best that they could hope for was to be shot down and laughed at. The worst that could happen would be to get into a relationship with one. I have always known that American women were materialistic but I forgot that they also thrive on inflicting emotional damage on men. They thrive on dealing blows to the male ego. I recall that this was quite common among teenagers at school but I always thought that girls grew out of it as they became women. Perhaps I was wrong, it may be the viciousness only becomes more sophisticated and covert.
These same women will be wondering why they can't get a date tens years from now. They will try to figure out why they get fucked and chucked. I sipped my coffee and savoured memories of the land from whence it came. Some things will never change.
Chocha,
Those women are losers. Quite often, people will criticize something and make negative comments because they can't have that same thing. Making it seem bad makes them feel better about not having it.
Consider this example. You're sitting with a friend at a cafe as a brand new Mercedes drives past. Then your friend starts up about how stupid that car is, costs as much as a house, too much for insurance and maintenance etc etc. Deep down inside he would dearly love to be able to afford such a car, but he can't..... so he makes himself feel better by trying to convince himself that having one is a bad idea.
I think that's what those women were really trying to do. Make themselves feel better by cutting someone else down. Sexism isn't limited to men.
As an aside, I recently heard a statistic that claims over 70% of women are unable to have an orgasm. I'd bet that these women are probably in that group. Otherwise, they might be enjoying a good lay instead of sitting around criticizing men and complaining to each other in some stupid coffee shop.
Rock
I bet that excluded Latinas, they are the most orgasm happy group I've ever seen.
American women just suck, why waste your time? Even the ones I love as friends I would never, ever get involved with.
The reasons that American women suck are numerous and complex, you could write volumes about it. But the underlying reason is contemporary American culture and society, which is full of contradictions and conflicting views. On one hand women are taught to be women and on the other they are taught to be something else. The superpowerful US media pretty much has brainwashed about 98 percent of the American male population, most of us on this board represent an enlightened minority, who have traveled the world and have seen how life can be different. The Domino's Pizzas and the other ones who defend American women are just hooked into the US media mind manipulation.
Chocha, sad but true, these women will probably go out on dates and land someone to cling on to - some pussified/chump male - which abound by great numbers.
I totally agree with CBGBConnisur which pretty much explains why these women will go out on dates but probably (and hopefully) not with those of us on this forum who "represent an enlightened minority".
Before, I used to drool over American/ Americanized women, now I know better. It's funny actually because of the way in which I view them. They might take me for being one of those unenlightened majority, but they're dead wrong. When I deal with them (not very often) inside I'm cracking up and saying "yeah right, dream-on, whatever!!".
I've not heard from Domino in some time now. I guess he really has abandoned the AW thread for the Thailand thread, which brings me to my question.
I don't know if Domino has ever made this comparison before, but I'd love to know what he thinks about Thai women. Or better yet, which does he prefer, Thai or AW & why?
I'm just really curious to know his response.
ILAS
Hi All,
I am amazed reading this threat. Are really American women so bad?
Granted I do not leave in the USA, but I did had Australian and British girlfriends that basically do come from the same Anglo-Saxon culture tradition. I have done my bit of travelling around the globe and have had esperiences with Latin and Slavic women. And I find that in many respects it maybe far easier to be with a western woman.
True with Latin/Slavic woman, you can be a king, and everything is at your wish, but you always have to pay, as a woman never pays. You have to pay while taking her out, buying her presets, and entertaining her. You are a breadwinner, and a woman takes care of your domestic and sexual happiness.
A western woman is different. They tend to be mere independent and do what they like. The relationship is more like a partnership. They would fuck you only if they feel horny, not just to please you. But there are advantages. You never have to pay for them, as they pay there way, be it a restaurant bill, or 50% of holiday expenses.
In my experience it works out to be this way. You can go and have a beach/skiing holiday with Latin/Slavic 8s and 10s but you have to pay 100%. You can also go and have a holiday with a Western woman which would be 5s-7s, but she would pay her half of the costs. Experiences would be different but equally enjoyable. Sex with Latina probably would be more caring / passionate / sweet. But with a western woman it is likely be more “dirty”, as they have seen a fair amount of porn as well, and quite easily can act as a porn actresses and are fluent in dirty talk.
I see the above as a fair trade-off, and I think this thread is well anti-western women biased, and perhaps driven by man, who simply do not know how to handle a western woman?
a) There is no way in the world that American women are more "dirty" than Latina women, unless you are referring to personal hygiene.
b) Which is it, you don't leave the US or you have done your share of traveling around the globe? The two are mutually exclusive.
c) While I agree AWs pay for more than Latinas do, in the initial stages the man is still paying for most things most of the time.
d) "They would fuck you only if they feel horny, not just to please you." Thus getting back to one of the roots of the issue, which is that AWs aren't nearly horny enough.
e) Latina women also watch porn, not that this is any particular advantage.
You need to get your feet wet in order to understand what it is we're talking about regarding American Women. The horror stories of watching them crush a guy's ego in front of their friends for the pure sport of it, the manupulation in order to separate a guy from his money and resources, the ease with which they will lie in order to fuck with a guy's mind just so she can have some fun... these are REAL EVENTS, not some fabrication. My advice to you, beware...
In my travels overseas (even to some countries that have robust economies that have high standards) I encountered women that are the complete OPPOSITE of American Women: Polite, well-mannered, pleasant, easy to talk to, and a complete delight to be around. In over 20 years of traveling, I've met LESS THAN a handful of foreign women that I'd kick to the curb for their attitudes alone.
It's as if the rest of the world's women has the maturity and class that American Women LACK. Mingle with them some more and THEN I'd like to see the nature of your posts
The irony is, Siesta has probably been played by some of those same American Women without even knowing it. They can be sneaky that way, you know?
I misunderstood him. He said he did not "leave [b]in[/b] the USA." I think he meant he did not "[b]live[/b] in the USA." So, he is not American and English is not his first language, most likely. So this means he has met the American women who are willing to travel and/or meet foreigners, which is not the majority.
Anyway Siesta, I apologize for misreading your post. American women still suck but that is not my problem any more.
You all may or may not agree with what this guy has to say, but don't beat him up for what he doesn't say. If I read his post correctly, he is talking about brits & aussies, not american women. There's plenty in what he does say to call him on. I think we should stick to that. For instance, if he's having sex only when his western gf is horny, he can't have very much experience. Who cares what he thinks.
This Siesta character has not been to the USA, from his wording English isn't a first language for him. Yet still, he doesn't have one clue about what life in the US is really like.
I wasn't bashing Siesta (if it seemed that way) but I DO think he was making a comment about something of which he has very little if any experience. I tried to bring that to his attention, and it may have seemed coarse. For that, I offer apologies. Many comments here are aimed at WESTERN women and their attitudes and I won't dispute much of that. My comments are aimed at AMERICAN WOMEN and come from experience as do the comments of many of you here. I feel that I was telling Siesta that he needs to pull back the curtain to expose the Great All-Powerful Oz what for what it is.
There is a good chance that these AW's that travel overseas do NOT travel in such a large pack like back home, and therefore the evidence of the sport of ego-crushing is minimal or nonexistent. Having not witnessed this despicable practice very much if at all, I feel, may have shaped his current opinion, which is different from the prevailing school of thought on this board.
"A western woman is different. They tend to be mere independent and do what they like. The relationship is more like a partnership. They would fuck you only if they feel horny, not just to please you. But there are advantages. You never have to pay for them, as they pay there way, be it a restaurant bill, or 50% of holiday expenses."
It's obvious that Siesta has no experience with American women. The statement above might be true of Swedish women for example but not American women by a long shot. It is true that AW will do whatever they want, but they have a serious problem with a man trying to do the same. The relationship is a partnership where the woman seeks to make 95% of the decisions. It's also true that they will only fuck you when they are horny or they want you to purchase them the latest "must have" item. As for never having to pay for them, that is a total fallacy. Some women may pay some portion of the expenses initially, however once they start putting out the pussy this comes to an abrupt end. The man is then expected to pay 100% of all expenses even though the woman only fucks him when she feels horny. You can be assured that she will feel horny less frequently as the relationship progresses.
With a Western woman you will still have to be the "breadwinner". If you don't pay up front you will pay on the way out. Just ask all the divorced men about the back loaded fund called marriage in the West.
While Western women can talk dirty and might even be mechanically proficient at sex, it is often sex without soul or true emotion.
Why settle for cold sex with a woman who only fucks you when she has nothing better to do? Latinas have hot pussy and whatever you spend on them is peanuts compared to the cost of having a Western girlfriend/wife.
I don't believe that dealing with Western women's bullshit is a "fair" trade-off for occasional mediocre sex. You may have to pay a Latina's way but that is only because she is a queen and deserves to be treated as such. In return for this you will be her king. She will suck you, fuck you, even cook and wash for you when you wish. It's good to be king!
i heard one of a kind of funny one regarding the women paying. i once read a rant online by a guy who felt a need to explain to his girlfriend with whom he was supposed to be sharing expenses equally that $20 was not half of anything except $40. when they went to aruba, and the whole deal went on his credit card, she gave him $20. he spent $160 taking her parents to a nice restaurant, and she gave him $20-you guys get the idea-"fair and equitable"
regarding siesta's post, what he is describing as appearently in his opinion less than optimal behavior in latinas and ee women, sounds like paradise to me. i personally will gladly foot the bill for a woman who is faithful, and makes her priority my well being-that is actually "fair and equitable", a concept that our lovely domestic models don't have a grasp on. have your cake and eat it too(until you get very fat) is more their speed
regarding the "bashing", yes, this forum may seem to be "over the top" at times, but basically it is one of the very few tiny voices raised against the din of the media, our culture, our education system, feminist academia, and our government and judiciary bodies.
waiting for an elevator in manhattan office building and out pops 2 women with luggage. one looks at me and smiling says hello in a friendly way with a european accent. i nod. her friend says to her "see the men here in ny don't say hello". actually i was speechless because they were both gorgeous and the american one was near 6ft tall and looked like a combination of naomi campbell and stacey dash with tight jeans plastered on.
to the guy who wants to know what life is like here in the us in regards to women-it sucks. you are constantly on guard with females when it comes to talking. one girl moaned "he always says the wrong things". it's like verbal chess. the in thing now for females is to brand the guy a stalker! and watch out you might be called a weirdo guy if you want to park in a less crowded section of the parking lot.
I was on vacation in Spain, and in this grocery store, the checkout lady working there was a gorgeous Spanish blonde with a honey complexion, yet some knucklehead next to me kept talking about Jennifer Aniston, this local didn't have a clue that a really nice piece of woman was only a few feet away from us. Jennifer A on her best day couldn't compare to this beauty.
Mike I know exactly what the fuck your talking about being on guard. If you are not their compleat package then addressing them is something your simply no allowed to do or you are a stalker. How many time i have heard my friends that are girls here ***** about two things
1. Too many LOSERS hitting on them.
2. Not meeting any GOOD guys.
Siesta, I have yet to meet the AW that paid their 50%, my experiance is that their 50% is telling me what we should do that I will pay for. Once I was leaving a movie with a girlfriend here and she said "next time I pick the movie" and was pissed when I told her I would be happy to go to any movie that SHE paid for. She hit the fucking roof, her responce "just because your paying for it doesn't mean you get to pick it." I told her that because I was paying for it was WHY I get to pick it.
I still pay for all the dates with my girl in BsAs, but when she has something she would like to do, she whispers it in my ear says please and lightly pinches my nipple or something. I'm all in for that kind of manipulation, but the bitches here just DEMAND it. My problem with AW has always been their idea of entitalment, as if I am expected to put up with anything just for the privalage of being around them.
I'm happy to pay for all the dinners and movies and trips if it means I'm the King of the castle and she is my Queen.
Well said, my bretheren! However, I feel that Siesta is rooted in his opinion, as are WE (at least experience taught US). He is on his way to what he thinks is a wonderful acquatic petting zoo, but is in actuality, open water littered with chum while he tries to pet the Great Whites he adores. If he needs to lose a limb in order to learn a lesson, I will be the LAST ONE to stand in his way...
I concur that Siesta probably has not been to the USA or at least not for long. That said, I have had several European friends that have visited the USA for a week or so and hit major cities like NY and Miami. Several scored with the locals and reportedly had great experiences. Nothing but praise for AW, or at least the ease of bagging some decent ones in bars. I once went out with one of these guys and the girls were on him like flies on shit, I couldnt believe it, this guy is decent-looking but not outstanding. Could it be that AW treat them differently or that they know something we dont about handling our women? I really dont/didnt think that the foreign=interesting concept applies to AW.
There is another site americanwomensuck.com, I heard the guy who runs it was getting bombarded with threats of all kinds because of it from AWs, he even has AW sympathizing homos threatening him. This Siesta dude is going to get bit in half by those AW sharks.
Thank you for posting your comments in this thread. I am a firm believer of open dialogue & I always welcome opposing viewpoints, so welcome aboard!
Siesta, American Women Suck. I know this first hand. I am originally from Chicago, I served in the Armed Forces & lived in Japan & England for a total of 5 years, I now live in SE Florida & I’m twice divorced (both American Women – one white & one black).
I would like to know where you are originally from, where you live now if different from your origin & how many British/Anglo women you have had relationships with (ballpark figure is good enough). I’m just trying to get an understanding of the basis of your opinion in order to better appreciate your viewpoint.
ILAS
American Women Suck – Siesta will learn this soon enough
I just took a look at the site and I LIKE IT! The caretaker of the site must have known that ball-less, feminazi-sympathizing gay men and their soul-sucking, wallet-draining, man-hating female co-conspirators would mount an effort to collect a bunch of pitchfork-carrying villagers to hound him. The dude has MY support 100%. He lays out his points pretty eloquently, and that is sure to [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] off the shemons (whoops! I meant DEMONS)
[QUOTE=Moore]I concur that Siesta probably has not been to the USA or at least not for long. That said, I have had several European friends that have visited the USA for a week or so and hit major cities like NY and Miami. Several scored with the locals and reportedly had great experiences. Nothing but praise for AW, or at least the ease of bagging some decent ones in bars. I once went out with one of these guys and the girls were on him like flies on shit, I couldnt believe it, this guy is decent-looking but not outstanding. Could it be that AW treat them differently or that they know something we dont about handling our women? I really dont/didnt think that the foreign=interesting concept applies to AW.[/QUOTE]
The dude must be seriously smoking some potent shit, he can find better women in his part of the world with ease. Anyway if you get a chance to go to Europe, you can turn the tables, and get Euro chics to fall on you.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]The dude must be seriously smoking some potent shit, he can find better women in his part of the world with ease. Anyway if you get a chance to go to Europe, you can turn the tables, and get Euro chics to fall on you.[/QUOTE]No one is saying by any means that the AW are better. Ive been around the world and know that they have got to be among the worst in all aspects. I was only saying that my Euro buddies seems to score some relatively decent AW with ease.
The American women who were on the European dude like flies on shit probably thought that he had a pocket full of Euros, and he was an easy mark. Given the fact that the Euro is handing the dollar a serious ass-whipping these days, AW will look for new ways to finance that all important trip to Europe. Also, if the guy casually mentioned his chateau back in the Old Country that would explain why he was being mobbed by the AW gold-diggers.
On the other hand, some AW enjoy trying strange foreign cock simply for the bragging rights that it may bring among their friends. This seems to be more common in the North than in the South. Southern females prefer their cock to be home grown.
Remember, when you're a foreigner, you are whoever you say you are unless someone goes through quite a bit of trouble to verify your identity, assets, etc. Don't under-estimate the allure of the wealthy foreign boyfriend to American women. They may have assumed that since this guy was from Europe he must have had money in order to be vacationing in the US. I wonder if the reaction would have been the same if this same guy was a Mexican national or even Canadian perhaps? Even post 9/11 with all the supposed anti-Arab backlash any Saudi college student can walk into a bar and walk out with more pussy than he knows what to do with.
There is nothing that the foreign guys know about handling American women that we don't. AW are not that complicated or complex, just follow the money and you'll have them figured out everytime. ;)
I found this article quite amazing. Even though it only explains why white men prefer asian women over white women and the like, it also explains alot of things about attraction, behaviours found in women that can not be explained any better then this.
Why White Men Prefer Asian Women
By Fred Reed
There is near me an Asian sushi-beer-and-dinner establishment that I´ll call the Asia Spot. The region is urban, so the clientele is a mix of some of just about everything, but the waitresses are all Asian, principally Japanese, Indonesian, Vietnamese, and Thai. The Spot is a neighborhood bar. A large after-work crowd, many of them regulars, gather at happy hour. The social dynamics are curious. It would be an exaggeration to say, as someone did, that the black guys come to pick up white women, and the white men come to get away from them – but it would be an exaggeration of an underlying truth. The waitresses are a large part of the Spot´s appeal.
A common subject of conversation among male customers is how very attractive these women are when compared to American women. It is not a thought safe to utter in mixed company. It is a very common thought. American women know it.
Why are the Asians attractive? What, to huge numbers of men, makes almost any Asian more appealing than almost any American? The question is much discussed by men at the Spot. (I should say here that when I say “women,” I mean the majority of women, the mainstream, the center of gravity. Yes, there are exceptions and degrees.)
American women of my acquaintance offer several explanations, all of them wrong. For example, they say that Asian women are sexually easy. No. American women are sexually easy. The waitresses at the Spot are not available. They date, but they cannot be picked up.
Another explanation popular among American women is that men want submissive women, which Asians are believed to be. Again, no. For one thing, submissive people are bland and boring. In any event the waitresses aren´t submissive. Many compete successfully in tough professions. Among Asian waitresses I know I count an electrical engineer who does wide-area networks, and a woman with a masters in biochemistry who, upon finding that research required a Ph.D and didn´t pay, went back to school and became a dentist. Both of these wait tables to help out in the family restaurant.
At the Spot I know a woman waitressing her way through a degree in computer security, a bright Japanese college graduate making a career in the restaurant business, and the manager of the Spot – not a light-weight job. Submissiveness has nothing to do with their attractiveness.
Why, then, are they so very appealing?
To begin with, look at the American women in the Spot. Perhaps a third of them are stylishly dressed. The rest of the gringas run from undistinguished to dumpster-casual: baggy jeans, oversize shirts -- often male shirts -- with the tails out. They seem to affect a sort of homeless chic, actually to want to look bad, and do it with more than a touch of androgyny. A high proportion are at least somewhat overweight. (So are the men, but that´s another subject.) The Asians, without exception, are sleek, well-groomed, and dressed with an understated sexiness that never pushes trashy.
Further, the Asians are what were once called “ladies,” a thought repellant to feminists but very so refreshing to men. Listen to the American women at neighboring tables, and you will frequently hear phrases like, “He´s a f---ing piece of @#%$.” In what appears to be a determined attempt to be men, they have adopted the mode of discourse of a male locker room and made it their normal language. The Asians, classier, better students of men, do not have foul mouths. They presumably know about body parts and bathroom functions, but do not believe that a woman raises her stature by referring to them constantly in mixed company.
Men at the Spot, I have noticed, instantly understand that colloquial commentary is not wanted, and don´t engage in it: In the presence of the civilized, men adopt the standards of civilization. Men also tend to think of women as women think of themselves. The Asians, without displaying vanity, clearly think well of themselves. And ought to.
All in all, they give the impression that they do not want to be one of the guys. They want to be one of the girls. Here we come to the core of their appeal. Let me elaborate.
The default position of American women is what men refer to as “the chip,” a veiled truculence, mixed with a not-very-veiled hostility toward men and a shaky sense of sexual identity. The result is a touchiness reminiscent of hungover ferrets. There is a bandsaw edge to them, a watching for any slight so that they can show that they aren´t going to take it. They are poised to lash out in aggressive defense of their manhood.
As best as I can tell, they don´t like being women. Here is the entire problem in five words.
The Asians at the Spot show every indication that they do like being women. They do not seem to have anything to prove. Being happy with what they are allows them to be comfortable with what they are not – men. They are not competing to be what they can´t be with people who can´t be anything else. They don´t have to establish their masculinity because they don´t want it. They do not assume, as American women tend to, that femaleness is a diseased condition to be treated by male clothes, gutter language, and bad temper.
I´ve spent many dozens of hours chatting with the gals at the Spot, and never seen a sign of the chip. For a man, the experience is wonderful beyond description – smart, pretty, classy women, who are women, and are not the enemy. As long as American women carry the chip, the Asian gals will eat them alive in the dating market.
Astor Bryan,
Come to southern South America or visit southern Europe and you´ll encounter civilized sexy women everywhere, not just in a Spot bar. Even better, the women are not orientals.
The average European often behaves and dresses in a manner that can make them appear to be rich to a North American. I traveled quite a bit in Europe, and people in that part of the world are very particular about their dress and appearance. I'm guessing the European guy who got lucky with some AWs was percieved as "rich" and "classy". I used to date a European lady, she was particular about her appearance and how she dressed that when I initially met her, I thought she would be some rich nose in the air snob that I wouldn't have chance with. In reality she was the daughter of a carpenter in Germany, and she turned out to be one of the nicest and most down to Earth people I have met. When I go to Europe, I pick up women left and right, and in some of the most unlikely of locales, I've gotten phone numbers and dates out of European women at bus stops, the subways and train stations, hotel lobbies, the street, wherever. They become especially friendly when they find out I'm American. In Australia, a lot of women often say "Wow, you're American.", and are just amazed to hear an American accent, I've picked up a lot of women this way, and I am not rich or super good looking, to them its exotic. Some of it has to do with the media, and the stereotype of the strong American male, the same media that I complain about which makes a big deal out of a select few American women(Madonna, Angelina Jolie, etc).
CBGB,
While I would agree with your statements ten years ago, take a look at Europe today. Granted, it has not fallen to US levels yet, but Europeans are sporting crappy clothes and dressing down nowadays. Ten years ago, only American men and children wore shorts. No longer.
There is also a serious trend toward "broad beams" in the EU nowadays.
Thank globalisation. Thank McDonalds.
Cheers,
Sporadic
Astor Bryan's post should be required reading for every fucking male in the Western Hemisphere. That article eloquently summed up a lot of the problems us Western men have with dating our piggish female counterparts.
Siesta, are you taking notes? You should be.
man that post hit the proverbial nail on the head! women liking being women instead of trying to be men. enjoying the differences of the sexes... carrying one's self with class... man, i feel like i'm stranded on a desert island limited to a diet of aw's while at the same time, i'm able to peer at another piece of land that is lush with the cure for obnoxious behavior, blandness, and mediocrity... excuse me guys, while i step out and drink myself to unconsciousness while my dilemma sets in! lol
Saw a great T-shirt worn by a knockout brunette that sums up the majority of relationships:
"I got the pussy, so I make the rules"
Comments welcome.
Angry Wife Gets Revenge Via eBay
Wednesday, June 22, 2005
Tim Shaw has gotten in trouble again — and this time it counts.
In February the obnoxious British shock jock was suspended "indefinitely" from his radio DJ job for the on-air trashing of his boss' house.
Last Thursday night, he was doing his usual 10 p.m.-to-1 a.m. shift at Birmingham-based Kerrang! 105.2 FM when he told pin-up girl Jodie Marsh on air that he'd be willing to leave his wife and two kids for her.
Unfortunately, his long-suffering wife was listening — and quickly put up his Lotus Esprit Turbo sports car for sale on eBay.
"I need to get rid of this car immediately — ideally in the next 2-3 hours before my cheating [jerk] husband gets home to find it gone and all his belongings in the street," Hayley Shaw wrote on the eBay description page, which as of Wednesday afternoon was still up.
"I am the registered owner and I have the log book. Please only buy if you can pick up tonight," she added.
The auction lasted exactly five minutes and three seconds. The car, estimated to be worth $45,000, sold for 50 pence (90 cents) and was soon driven away by a buyer who wishes to remain anonymous.
"I am sick of him disrespecting this family for the sake of his act," Hayley Shaw told a Birmingham newspaper. "The car is his pride and joy, but the idiot put my name on the log book [registration], so I just sold it. I didn't care about the money. I just wanted to get him back."
Last July, according to The Independent of London, Shaw upset his then-pregnant wife by saying on-air that he fantasized about sex with her sister. When she tearfully called to complain, he put her on air as well.
A month later, he nearly choked to death when a sausage he was simulating a sex act on broke in half.
A Kerrang! 105.2 spokesman said Tuesday that Shaw had taken a few days off to try to patch things up with his wife, who told newspapers "there is no hope for a reconciliation."
....has moved over to the AIDS forum. His writings are interesting.
Regarding LongStroker's post, it is highly ironic that this poor chap's wife is getting ready to take him for all he is worth for doing exactly what presumably got him something (wealth and materially speaking). Had this schlub gone on his radio show and said "I love and revere my wife, respect the sanctity of my marriage, and don't even notice attractive young women", his listeners would have said "what a wussy" and changed channels-no job, no fat paycheck, no stuff etc.
If you guys would like a good laugh, take a look at the latest episode of
"30 Days" with Morgan Spurlock (of "Supersize Me" fame). Morgan put's a 34 year old pudgy former "prettyboy" athlete on a regiment of anti-aging testosterone and growth hormone, plus supplements, and an intensive regiment of cardiovascular exercise and weight training. The funny thing was this guy's wife (whose physical appearance I will not comment on), who early in the program was actually acting to de-rail his progress (in an incredibly bitchy manner), appearently due to fear that if he becomes a "stud" again, he will again have access to younger more attractive women. Of particular appearent concern to her was the hot little blonde cardiovascular trainer with whom her husband was spending large amounts of time training.
GRANTED of course (I apologize for spoiling the show-promo's showed some of this anyways) the husband did later develop some health complications, and at that point,the bitchyness was to some degree justified, but early on, she didn't know that was going to happen. Her biggest concern was appearently jealousy and self interest, at the (appearent) expense of her husband's health and quality of life.
In these three paragraphs Astor has said what we have all been trying to express. It is "the chip" that drove me to BsAs and has me planning on moving there. I don't think the rest of you would like it because of the snakes and machine gun packing cops but it's for me.
Thanks again
DR
[QUOTE=Astor Bryan]The default position of American women is what men refer to as “the chip,” a veiled truculence, mixed with a not-very-veiled hostility toward men and a shaky sense of sexual identity. The result is a touchiness reminiscent of hungover ferrets. There is a bandsaw edge to them, a watching for any slight so that they can show that they aren´t going to take it. They are poised to lash out in aggressive defense of their manhood.
As best as I can tell, they don´t like being women. Here is the entire problem in five words.
The Asians at the Spot show every indication that they do like being women. They do not seem to have anything to prove. Being happy with what they are allows them to be comfortable with what they are not – men. They are not competing to be what they can´t be with people who can´t be anything else. They don´t have to establish their masculinity because they don´t want it. They do not assume, as American women tend to, that femaleness is a diseased condition to be treated by male clothes, gutter language, and bad temper.
I´ve spent many dozens of hours chatting with the gals at the Spot, and never seen a sign of the chip. For a man, the experience is wonderful beyond description – smart, pretty, classy women, who are women, and are not the enemy. As long as American women carry the chip, the Asian gals will eat them alive in the dating market.[/QUOTE]
I thought European women were fine with me, they're are much different fromt their US counterparts. Even French Canadian women were on a much different wavelenghth compared to AWs.
Astor Bryan,
Great post. I agree that the writer has hit the nail on the head. You know, with all the cerebral Dr. Phil, Oprah type talk shows around, I wonder why know one addresses this issue. Isn’t self acceptance the first step to self fulfillment?
Sporadic, tell me it isn’t so. Don’t tell me the European girls are now becoming fat & androgynous like AW. It’s been about 10 years since I was last in Europe & I have pleasant memories of how the European women were. I guess in another decade you won’t be able to tell any difference between Cambridge, Massachusetts & Cambridge, England.
Magic501, funny post. It's amazing to think that there are people who actually believe that the source of their power is their pussy. I though girls were suposed to mature faster than boys?! Unfortunately for knockout brunette, she will come to realize that by her mid thirties, those rules will change because her pussy will no longer be in demand. I hope someone who knows this girl takes a photo of that T-shirt to show her 10 years from now. I’d love to see what kind of shirt she wearing then, probably a frock.
Hi all,
It was interesting to read your replies guys.
Granted that most people did not read well into my post. I was reporting on my experiences with Western Women, that included British and Australian, and compared them to Latina and Eastern European women. I tried to report on my experiences with both.
I have NEVER yet shagged a USA woman, and did not claimed so in the post The closest I guess, was a Canadian (French) and the experience was not that bad.
Although, I a have travelled on varios ocassions to the USA, I was accompanied, thus did not had a chance to try pullng a US woman.
Perhaps I should add it to my hot-list of nationalities that I still have to shag.
It was very interesting to read about guys reporting that an American Woman never pays. Is it really so? She would never split the bill, even if she earns more than you? I lived in Wester Europe for many years, and even my long-term girfriends were happy to pay their half after years, of dating. In fact, personally I would only pay for a woman if I know that she has no money or earns considerably less than me. If she earns same as me, or more than me, I EXPECT 50/50 sharing of costs.
Interesting article about not marrying in general, even though it doesn't directly specify AW, it is obvious that they're the ones it makes reference to (and applies perfectly too).
By Fred Reed
Were a young man to ask me, "To marry perchance, or remain forever single?" I would, given the hostile circumstances today of law and love, urge caution. "Marriage is a commitment of several years of your life, plus child support," I would say. "Do not make it rashly."
The question is simply, "Why marry?" As a young man full of dangerous steroids, your answer will probably be, "Ah, because her hair is like corn silk under an August moon; her lips are as rubies and her teeth, pearls; and her smile would make a dead man cry." This amounts to, "I'm horny," with elaborations. It is as it ought to be. The race continues because maidens are glorious, and striplings both desperate and unwise.
Note, incidentally, that by the time October rolls around, corn silk is shriveled and brown.
Why marry, indeed? In times past, marriage occasionally made sense. Life on a farm required two people, a woman to work herself ragged in the cabin while the man carried heavy lumpish things and shot Indians. Later, come suburbia, the man did something tedious in an office and the woman did two hours housework and stayed bored for six. It worked, tolerably. In the Fifties, nobody expected much of life. It generally met their expectations.
And there was sex, though not enough of it -- the scarcity being the propellant behind matrimony. Back then, before the miracle of feminism, women had not yet commoditized themselves. A lad had to pop the question before he got laid regular. Women controlled the carnal economy and, in a world that was going to be boring anyway, that was probably a good thing. At least kids had parents.
Times change. Some advice to young fellows setting forth:
First, forget that her lips are sweet as honeydew melon (though not, of course, green). It doesn't last. One of nature's more disagreeable tricks is that while men are far uglier than women, they age better. Remember this. It is useful to reflect in moments of unguided passion that, beneath the skin, we are all wet bags of unpleasant organs.
Soon you will be a balding sofa ornament and she will look like a fireplug with cellulite. Once the packaging deteriorates, there had better be something to get you through the next thirty years. Usually there isn't.
Prospects have improved for the single of both genders. Sex is nowadays always available. If you don't marry Moon Pie, which would be wise, you may get another chance when she comes back on the market with the first wave of divorcees. It's never now-or-never. Getting older doesn't diminish your opportunities. As you gain experience, you will recognize the tides, the eddies, the whirlpools of coupling -- the urgency of the biological clock, the lunacy of menopause. Men by comparison embody a wonderful clod-like simplicity.
As you ponder snuggling forever with Moon Pie, compare the lives of your bachelor and your married friends. The bachelors come and go as the mood strikes them, order their apartments with squalid abandon, drive Miatas or Harleys if they choose, and live in such pleasant dissolution as is consonant with continued employment. The married guy lives in a vast echoing mortgage beyond his means, drives sensible cars he doesn't like, and loses his old friends because he isn't allowed to hang out with them.
Self-help books to the contrary, marriage does not rest on compromises, but on concessions. You will make all of them. Perhaps it doesn't have to be this way. But it is this way.
Moon Pie has only one reason for marriage: to get her legal hooks into you. She doesn't think of it in these terms, yet, and she has no evil intentions. She just wants a nice quiet home in the remote suburbs where she can live uneventfully, raise progeny, and keep her eye on you.
If you think surveillance isn't part of the contract, try going out late with your old buddies. Marriage is an institution founded on mistrust. If she thought you would stick around if not compelled, she wouldn't need marriage. She wants monogamy, at least for you and, with some frequency, for herself. She knows viscerally that you would prefer the amorous insouciance of an oversexed alley cat. You know it consciously. Marriage exists to control the male, until recently a good idea. Now, however, she can support herself, and doesn't need protection. She doesn't need you, or you, her.
She will, however, want to have children. Women do. At which point, God help you.
Given the schools, drugs, latch-keyism consequent first to working parents and then to divorce, and the cultural pressure on children to be slatterns and dope-dealers, reproduction is a gamble. You may not even particularly like them, or they, you. Nobody talks about this, but how many people do you know who hardly talk to their grown children?
And you've just tied yourself into twenty years of raising them.
The moment Junior enters wherever it is that we are, Moon Pie will have you screwed to the wall. She won't think of it this way, yet. She'll be delighted with the cooing bundle of joy, his little fingers, his little toes, etc. But divorce usually comes. The chances are two to one that she will file: Women are more eager than men to enter marriage, and more eager to leave it -- with the kids, the house, and the child support. It won't be amicable, not after seven years. You will be astonished at how ruthless she will be, how well she knows the law, and how utterly hostile to divorcing fathers the law is.
You don't understand how bad the divorce courts are. You probably don't know what "imputed income" is. You think that "joint custody" means "joint custody." Think again. Quite possibly you will have to support her while she moves with your kids to Fukuoka with an Air Force colonel she met in a meat bar.
In short, marriage often means turning twenty-five years of your life into smoking wreckage. Yes, happy marriages exist (I personally know of one) and there are the somnolent marriages of habitual contentment or, perhaps, of quiet resignation. But the odds aren't good.
Permit me an heretical thought. In an age when neither sex economically needs the other, in which women do not need protection from wild bears and marauding savages, not in the suburbs anyway, perhaps marriage doesn't make sense, at least for men. The divorce courts remove all doubt. A young fellow might do well to stay single, keep his DNA to himself, pick such flowers as he might find along the way, and live his life as he likes.
Another interesting article by the same fellow:
Sex, equality & kidding ourselves
By Fred Reed
Men of today's older generation grew up in the chivalric miasma of their time, which held that women were morally superior to men, and that civilized men protected women against any available vicissitude. A corollary was that women needed protecting. So common has this understanding been throughout history that one may suspect it of being based in ancient instinct: In a less hospitable world, if men didn't protect women, something disagreeable would eat them, and then there would be no more people. So men did. And do.
Instincts have consequences, particularly when the circumstances requiring them cease to exist.
Because women were until recently subordinate, and in large part played the role of gentility assigned to them, men didn't recognize that they could be dangerous, selfish, or sometimes outright vipers. They were no worse than men, but neither were they better. Men believed, as did women, that women were tender creatures, caring, kind, and suited to be mothers. Males deferred to women in many things, which didn't matter because the things women wanted were not important.
When women came into a degree of power, it turned out that they were as immoral, or amoral, as men, probably more self-centered, and out for what they could get. Not all were, of course, as neither were all men, but suddenly this became the central current. This too followed lines of instinctual plausibility: Women took care of children and themselves, and men took care of women. It made sense that they should be self-centered.
These newly empowered women knew, as women have always known, how to wield charm, and they quickly learned to enjoy power. The men of the old school didn't notice in time. They deferred, and they were blind-sided. They gave gentlemanly agreement to one-sided laws hostile to men.
Political deference became a pattern. It remains a pattern. It probably springs in part from the male's instinctive recognition that, by giving women what they want, he gets laid. Between individuals this worked tolerably well, but less so when applied to abstract groups.
When women said they wanted protection against dead-beat dads, the old school fell for it. They were attuned to saving maidens and the sheltering from life's storms of white Christian motherhood. "Dead-beat dads" was of course that sure-fire political winner -- an alliterative slogan of few words that embodied a conclusion but no analysis. So sure were men that women were the kinder gentler sex that they never bothered to look at the statistics on abuse of children, or the track records of the sexes in raising children.
The romantic elderly male believed -- believes -- that women were the natural proprietors of the young. This led to laws virtually denying a divorced father's interest in his children, though not the requirement that he pay for their upkeep. The pattern holds today. Male judges in family law defer to women, almost any women no matter how unfit, and female judges side with their own. The demonstrable fact that women can and do abuse and neglect children, that a female executive clawing her way up the hierarchy may have the maternal instincts of a rattlesnake, that children need their fathers -- all of this has been forgotten.
The reflexive deference continued. Feminists wanted congress to pass a vast program of funding for every left-wing cause that incited enthusiasm in the sterile nests of NOW. They called it the Violence Against Women Act, and men deferentially gave it to them. Of course to vote against it, no matter what it actually said -- and almost no one knew -- would have been to seem to favor violence against women. A law to exterminate orphans, if called the Domestic Violence Prevention Act, would pass without demur.
There followed yet more male deference to female desires. When women wanted to go into the military to have babies, or a Soldier Experience, men couldn't bring themselves to say no.
When the women couldn't perform as soldiers, men graciously lowered standards so they could appear to. It was the equivalent of helping a woman over a log in the park, the legal and institutional parallel of murmuring, "Don't worry your pretty little head about a thing."
On and on it went. The aggregate effect has been that women have gained real power, while (or by) managing in large part to continue to exact deference and, crucially, to avoid the accountability that should come with power. A minor example is women who want the preferential treatment that women now enjoy, and yet expect men to pay for their dates. In today's circumstances, this is simple parasitism.
Today men are accountable for their behavior. Women are not. The lack of accountability, seldom clearly recognized, is the bedrock of much of today's feminist misbehavior, influence, and politics. Its pervasiveness is worth pondering.
A man who sires children and leaves is called a dead-beat dad, and persecuted. A woman who has seven children out of wedlock and no capacity to raise them is not a criminal, but a victim. He is accountable for his misbehavior, but she is not for hers. It is often thus.
Consider the female Marine officer who complained that morning runs were demeaning to women. A man who thus sniveled would be disciplined, ridiculed, and perhaps thumped. Yet the military fell over itself to apologize and investigate. Again, men are held accountable for their indiscipline, but women are not. Men expect to adapt themselves to the Army, but women expect the Army to adapt to them. And it does. The male instinct is to keep women happy.
Note that a woman who brings charges of sexual harassment against a man suffers no, or minor, consequences if the charges are found to be unfounded -- i.e., made up. A man who lied about a woman's misbehavior would be sacked. He is accountable. She isn't.
Yes, large numbers of women are responsible, competent, and agreeable. Few engage in the worst abuses, as for example the fabrication of sexual harassment. Yet they can do these things. A man cannot throw a fit and get his way. A woman can. Only a few need misbehave to poison the air and set society on edge. And the many profit by the misbehavior of the few.
People will do what they can get away with. Men assuredly will, and so are restrained by law. Women are not. Here is the root of much evil, for society, children, men and, yes, women.
What’s up Siesta?
I think the confusion may have come from your statement that
“Australian and British…basically do come from the same Anglo-Saxon culture tradition.” From then on you referred to the collective group as “Western Women,” which was understood to include AW according to your “same Anglo-Saxon culture” statement. Throw in the fact that the US is in the Western Hemisphere, & of course everyone assumes you were making statements about AW when you referred to Western Women, not differentiating between Australian/British & American Women. Now, something may have gotten lost in the translation. It is obvious to us that English is not your primary language (some of the members stated this in their response to you), so the misunderstanding is understandable.
As far as the horror stories you’ve read in this thread, more likely than not, they are true. Stay away from AW – stay away I say.
ILAS
This guy has written a number of very enlightened articles posted all over the internet, including those in this thread. Just look him using Yahoo.
"It was very interesting to read about guys reporting that an American Woman never pays. Is it really so? She would never split the bill, even if she earns more than you? I lived in Wester Europe for many years, and even my long-term girfriends were happy to pay their half after years, of dating. In fact, personally I would only pay for a woman if I know that she has no money or earns considerably less than me. If she earns same as me, or more than me, I EXPECT 50/50 sharing of costs."
Expect in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first.
Now I know why I get laid so easily after date in Ozzie, most dudes pay only for their share of the meal, I always pay for the lady.
The difference is the sheila's appreciate it, they don't EXPECT it unlike the skanks here.
This asymmetry of payment is one reason why by the third date, you need to talk about the hereafter.
As in, "If you're not here after what I'm here after, you're going to be here after I'm gone."
I'm born and raised in the USA. One thing that has always astonished me more than AW-- is American men. I simply can't figure out why the average American guy breaks their backs over these often fat, greedy, socially unpleasant, women. Sometimes I don't really blame the women, I suppose any countries women would eventually begin to act like American women if they were surrounded by American guys. I simply think American guys bend over backwards, go way over the extra mile, on many different levels, to give AW an undeserved dose of self-esteem.
For example, last night I was at an American bar. I sat down next to a plump, plain, obnoxious, AW college girl. Nothing special-- believe me. Yet the guys were just tripping trying to talk to her. Buying her drinks and looking her as if she was the last women on earth, and so on. It was just plain crazy. Of course these AW often gain an unjustified sense that they are a hot commodity because the American guys treat them as such. Just another day of American guys giving undeserved self-esteem to an AW.
From a sociological, historical perspective, I find the entire AW phenomenon rather bizaree. Why America? Why over the last 50 years did gender relations take such a strange path in the US? Why have American men been so willing to allow women total equality in everything, yet allow them to play the innocent, helpless, princess card, whenever it suits their fancy?
While the roots to this question lie in geography and Puritan culture, I believe the rapid disembowelment of American male in recent decades is nothing less than pathetic. I can't figure out why American guys don't simply act more like Aussie guys, or South African guys. Gender roles are stronger in these countries, and men, and women, are happier because of it. That is the funny thing about AW, they have unintentionally made themselves miserable in their lust for power, and American men are partly to blame for not having the common sense to keep their silly whims in check. Even if an AW gets a high-powered job, I have met many that often feel lost in their personal life because many guys simply aren't attracted to women who behave like men. It is difficult for a women to act like a man in the business world, then come home and be a loyal, sweet, funny, sexy, wife. And believe or not, very few American women want to be alone, yet this is exactly what happens.
Stay cool guys, good posts lately,
NB
[QUOTE=New Bound]
I can't figure out why American guys don't simply act more like Aussie guys, or South African guys. Gender roles are stronger in these countries, and men, and women, are happier because of it. That is the funny thing about AW, they have unintentionally made themselves miserable in their lust for power, and American men are partly to blame for not having the common sense to keep their silly whims in check. ... It is difficult for a women to act like a man in the business world, then come home and be a loyal, sweet, funny, sexy, wife. And believe or not, very few American women want to be alone, yet this is exactly what happens.
[/QUOTE]
Excellent analysis, NB. I think you are totally on point here. American men feed the monster by prostrating themselves before these AW beasts, hoping to get a little piece of pie. But women are instinctively repelled by this type of pussy behavior from the male, even though the media constantly promotes the stereotype of the feminized male as the ideal companion.
End result - everybody loses.
So how did we arrive at this sorry state of affairs? These are great questions which need to be addressed:
[QUOTE=New Bound]
From a sociological, historical perspective, I find the entire AW phenomenon rather bizaree. Why America? Why over the last 50 years did gender relations take such a strange path in the US?
[/QUOTE]
Personally, the more I think about it, I believe that we have unwittingly disturbed some natural human social order. Homo sapiens have existed on this planet for eons. What the fuck happened in the last 50 years? Certainly there have been some matriarchical societies in history (albiet few in number and not very successful.) I fear that our nation - and the West - may have started down a path which leads to where no sane individual or group would want to go.
hey guys,
here's an absolutely awesome article by fred reed. when i read it i felt like someone had been writing about my own life. here it is.
marriage, horror, and susan reimer
take horror. it's a better bet.
july 14, 2003
were i to offer thoughts on marriage to young american men today, in these the declining years of a once-great civilization, my advice would be as follows: don't do it. or, if you do, do it in another country. in america marriage is a grievous error.
and why so? because of the chip. the attitude. the bandsaw whine of anger, anger, anger that makes american women an international horror. it's there. it's real.
you, a young man, may not recognize the chip if you have never seen normal, warm, happy women. if you are twenty-something and haven't been out of the us, you haven't seen them. they exist by the billion--in latin america, singapore, taiwan, malaya, china and, last i looked, france and holland. and of course not every woman in america carries the chip. none of them think they do. yet it is the default, the usual, what comes out of the box.
the following is a perfectly ordinary, everyday, bulk-lot example, suitable for poisoning a cistern:
"other than a 29-inch waist and a full head of hair, there isn't much to recommend the twentysomething male…he is living an extended adolescence -- an adult-olescence -- and every immature, irresponsible, self-absorbed thing he does is reinforced by the latest issue of his favorite men's magazine." (susan reimer, a columnist for the baltimore sun. i bet she goes out a lot.)*
hers is the attitude--and what they think of you. it is the defining trait of american women. exceptions exist, and they have my apologies, but they are few and no, sport, your sally probably isn't one of them. they're coiled to bite. as soon as problems arise in the marriage, they turn into susan.
susan reimer is what is out there, guys: bitter that no one wants her (as who in his right mind could?), sure that no one is good enough for her, never having grasped that those who would be loved must first be lovable. understand this: susan is america. some hide it better, springing it on you after the ceremony, but susan is the rule.
the susans do not like men. sometimes they actually take courses in disliking men ("women's studies"). yet they want to marry one and have babies. for them, the contradiction actually makes a kind of sense, because (and they know this, believe me) they will get the house, the children, and the child support. for you, it makes no sense. you will get raped in the divorce courts. you don't know how bad it is. don't do it.
a prime effect of marriage is backbreaking financial overhead: the excessive house in the prestigious suburb, the pricey but boring cars, all that. but if you don't fall into the trap, keeping your expenses down means you can live in alaska or overseas and enjoy existence. there is more to life than debt service. although these are bad times for marrying, they are extraordinarily good times for being single.
now, children. this is sticky. you may want them, or think you want them, or think you may want them. she wants them. my advice is to move to almost any country where english isn't spoken and women don't want their husbands to be the mothers of their children. any country inhabited by the chinese would do nicely.
incidentally, remember that it is never now or never. your prospects improve with time. at thirty-five or fifty you will be perfectly able to find a good woman if you know where to look. see above list.
remember also that these are not good times for having children in america. it is almost irresponsible. the schools are scholastically poor, drug-ridden, given chiefly to political indoctrination, and hostile to male children. the universities are little better. divorce is hell on children and their fathers, and nearly universal. the country lunges to police-statedom and isn't, i suspect, as stable as it might be. worse, worst, there is susan reimer. her name is legion, and she seeps everywhere, like the effluvium of unwashed socks.
further, there is no social duty to have children. some argue that the white population is in decline. tough. if the country chooses to make having kids undesirable, then let it decline. it is not your problem.
now, you might well wonder, why are american women carrying the chip? practically, it doesn't matter: they do carry it, and will continue. still, it is partly because from birth they are fed the notion that they have been oppressed, battered, cheated, deprived, harassed, used as sex objects, not used as sex objects, on and on. being rational, you are perhaps inclined to point out that never has a female population been less any of these things, but don't bother. it will have no effect. the chip is an emotional artifact to which they respond emotionally.
the bedrock of the attitude is that everything is the man's fault. wonders reimer, "what is the answer, especially if the 20- and 30-year-old male is such poor marriage material?" she does not wonder, "if i am such a grindingly awful termagant that men on three continents are crossing their legs and feeling queasy over my mere column, and won't come near me except in a kevlar bathysphere with a disinfectant system, maybe i'm doing something wrong. gosh. i wonder what?"
yet something more is going on, though one does not easily see just what. note that in recent decades we have seen the invention by women of bulimia and anorexia, which no one had heard of in 1965. men made them do it. at roughly the same time women began getting breast implants, which men also made them do, and then suing about it. in the same period they began having induced memories of being raped or satanically abused by their fathers. men again. the psychotherapy racket grew like kudzu, a sure sign of deep unhappiness over something.
all of this is recent. you have to be fifty to remember women who were resilient, sane, psychically strong and, within the limits of an often sorry existence, content. but whatever the answer, guys, the problem isn't yours.
spend a year overseas, however you have to do it. for smart, classy, just plain glorious women who often speak english, try singapore. argentina is splendid. many places are. you would be amazed. see what's out there before you marry a gringa with her inner susan, who will one day burst from her chest like one of those beaked space-aliens in the movies, dripping venom. they're death.
hope you all enjoyed reading it as much as i did, :)
rock
Hey Fellas:
Here's a little humor for you guys (at least I thought it was funny). Here's the link if you want to see the original website: [url]http://www.phillytalkradioonline.com/humor/marriage.html[/url]
Enjoy!
Being Married and Men vs. Women
Being Married.
I married Miss Right. I just didn't know her first name was Always.
It's not true that married men live longer than single men. It only seems longer.
Losing a wife can be hard. I in my case, it was damned near impossible.
A man complaining to a friend: "I had it all; money, a beautiful house, a big car, the love of a beautiful woman, then,pow! It was all gone!" "What happened?" asked the friend. "Ahhhh, my wife found out."
Wife: Let's go out and have some fun tonight. Husband: Okay, but if you get home before I do, leave the hallway light on.
How many men does it take to open a beer? None. It should be opened by the time she brings it to the couch.
A man rushes into his house and yells to his wife, "Martha, pack up your things! I just won the California lottery!" "Shall I pack for warm weather or cold?!" "I don't care, just so long as you're out of the house by noon!"
Women will never be equal to men until they can walk down the street bald and still think they are beautiful.
I haven't spoken to my wife for 18 months. I don't like to interrupt her.
A man without a woman is like a fish without a bicycle.
If your wife and a lawyer were drowning and you had to choose, would you go to lunch or to a movie?
A man is incomplete until he is married. After that, he's finished.
Marriage is a three ring circus: 1. engagement ring 2. wedding ring 3. suffering
Before marriage, a man yearns for the woman he loves. After marriage, the "y" becomes silent.
A man meets a genie. The genie tells him he can have whatever he wants provided that his mother-in-law gets double. The man thinks for a moment and then says, "OK, give me a million dollars and beat me half to death."
A little boy asked his father, "Daddy, how much does it cost to get married?" His father replied, "I don't know, son, I'm still paying for it."
A couple was having a discussion about family finances. Finally the husband exploded, "If it weren't for my money, the house wouldn't be here!"
The wife replied, "My dear, if it weren't for your money, I wouldn't be here."
A man's credit card was stolen but he decided not to report it, because the thief was spending less than his wife did.
Boring husband: "Honey, why are you wearing your wedding ring on the wrong finger?" Bored wife: "Because I married the wrong man!"
First Guy (proudly): "My wife's an angel!" Second Guy: "You're lucky, mine's still alive."
Marriage is grand, and divorce is about 10 grand.
Married life is very frustrating. In the first year of marriage, the man speaks and the woman listens. In the second year, the woman speaks and the man listens. In the third year, they both speak and the neighbors listen.
When a man opens the door of his car for his wife, you can be sure of one thing: either the car is new or the wife is.
Before marriage, a man will lie awake all night thinking about something she said. After marriage, he will fall asleep before she's finished."
Men vs. Women:
A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend.
A successful woman is one who can find such a man.
The Style: Men wake up as good-looking as they went to bed.
Women somehow deteriorate during the night.
A man is a person who will pay two dollars for a one-dollar item he wants.
A woman will pay one dollar for a two-dollar item that she doesn't want.
To be happy with a man you must understand him a lot and love him a little.
To be happy with a woman you must love her a lot and not try to understand her at all.
Marriage: A woman marries a man expecting he will change, but he doesn't.
A man marries a woman expecting that she won't change and she does.
Men marry because they are tired.
Women marry because they are curious. Both are disappointed.
A woman worries about the future until she gets a husband, while...
A man never worries about the future until he gets a wife.
A woman will always cherish the memory of the man who wanted to marry her;
A man, of the woman who he didn't.
There are two times when a man doesn't understand a woman - before marriage and after marriage
Husbands: Only two things are necessary to keep one's wife happy. One is to let her think she is having her own way, and the other is to let her have it.
Married men live longer than single men, But married men are a lot more willing to die.
Any married man should forget his mistakes - no use two people remembering the same thing.
The Battle: A woman has the last word in any argument. Anything a man says after that is the beginning of a new argument.
For those of you who think Asian women are different, I direct you to the term "dragon lady." She is every bit a full blooded American woman. Freed from the shackles of her Asian roots she will exploit every opportunity to be his equal or better.
Those who appear sweet and differential are only manipulating behind the scenes. They make the male think he is in control while she wields power only Hillary Clinton and Nancy Reagan can appreciate.
Akibono, I think the acronym you used is key... Asian American Women. When the guys here contributed their positive comments about Asian Women, I THINK it was in regards to Asian Women who still live in their native countries, and therefore, do NOT have the predatory nature of American Women. HOWEVER, if you have observed OTHERWISE about the women who live in their native countries, it wouldn't be the FIRST (or the LAST) time I was wrong. Myself, since my recent trip to the Philippines, I've developed a HEALTHY attraction to them. From what I've been reading, Japanese and Korean chicks think they are at the top of the food chain and have a similar attitude to AW's. I'm still attracted to them, but wary now of the possible attitude. Next on down are the Chinese (some VERY hot flight attendants I saw on my trip TO and BACK from the Fils) and Filipinas. The BEST advice: nip any rebellion in the bud (tactfully) BEFORE it takes place and thrives.
Akibono, that was a great post, I totally agree. It is funny because this exact subject had been on my mind for some time.
Ok, question for the guys:
Question: What has a more unpleasant, bitter, stuck-up attitude, anger, and pent up aggresson towards men than an American women (born and raised in the US)?
Answer: A femi-nazi, "dragon lady," ( Asian female, born and raised in the US-- probably with Korean, Japanese, or Taiwanese Ancestry).
This really is true from what I've seen. What is so interesting and fascinating is how AAW not only excude femi-nazi attitude and bitterness, but often seem to be in the vanguard and forefront of the entire war on men in America. In other words, taking a word from the Fred Reed article, Asian American women have a "chip" and "bite" worse than most white, black, and definately Hispanic women in the US. (born and raised in the US.)
However, native born and raised Asian women are typically very sweet, have good sense of humor, and generally hold men in reverance. The contradiction is striking.
True example, from when I was at my local university a few years ago. The AAW would put together these films about how American women had been oppressed, deprived, harassed, and used as sex objects by American men. Their films directed American women to stand up together and fight the exploitation by the media, culture, and in particular men. Then these big rallies would take place among the women that it was ok "to be 300 pounds" and other nutty messages that encouraged American women to behave like a femi-Nazi's. Anyway, I always thought it was interesting how the Asian American women were making the films, and leading the rallies, in the war against men. The white, black, and Hispanic American women were on the sidelines learning from them.
The typical dragon lady one should avoid at all costs in a relationship is -- someone like Lucy Liu -- from the Charlie's Angels movies. A total dragon lady. Maybe you would want a little one hour short-time, but make it a 1 hour limit. On second thought maybe you could do a Vegas style wedding with no promissory, and then see your attorney in the morning for the divorce.
Stay cool guys,
nb
Hey Fellas:
OK, I often hear that men in other countries treat their women rather harshly when compared to the way men in the US treat AW. Yet, women in these countries remain sweet & relatively submissive. These women will work & do pull their own weight, but they are also willing to accept a traditional feminine role.
So what are the men in Latin America, Asia & Africa doing that US men in are not? It has to be something more than child support & skewed domestic violence laws that is causing this power struggle in the US.
Any ideas?
ILAS
Funny you should mention her. I had her a bit farther down the ladder, but MY top Dragon Lady is Lisa Ling, the "journalist" formerly of "The View". The one or two times I had the misfortune of watching that show for a whole five minutes, it seemed she centered her "reporting" on "the oppression of women". Reporting on the oppression of women is fine, BUT she seemed to do so in a manner that exposed her glee at castrating men to the point where I was expecting her mouth to produce a heavy froth. Leeza Gibbons, is in the same league as Lisa Ling, although this particular subject is Asian Dragon Ladies.
Yeah, I forgot about Lisa Ling. She probably wins the award as queen of the Dragon ladies. I just love that name dragon lady, it makes me laugh just hearing it. I had had never heard that reference before.
To be fair, the average AAW is not that different from the average AW. The bottom line, if you like Asian women, go to Asia.
Stay cool,
nb
I accept the concept of multiculturalism as something that is not going to go away, therefore women like Lucy Liu and Jessica Alba, in my opinion are not Asian and South American, but are hardcore American women to the extreme. It's whats inside a woman's head, contributed by the society and culture that she lives in is the issue, not where her parents came from.
CBGB is correct. I understand that the US is a mixture of cultures & nationalities, but once you throw the "American" identifier behind it, it cancels out everything else.
Lucy Liu & Lisa Ling still look oriental & are classified as Asian-American, but they are no more Asian than Oprah Winfrey is African.
From some of the posts it has been implied when talking about American women, some posters mention "Western" women, when they say this they are referring to white women(using Western as a pc term) and lumping them all with American women. I totally disagree with this, American women, whether they are white, black, asian, native, hispanic, or anything else are all the same. As far as placing the blame on all Western or white women, the less pc term, this is bullsh*it. I have been to many Western countries in Europe and currently reside in Australia, all these countries are part of the "West", and have found that women in these places that I have visited contrast sharply with white American women as well as American women of color and AWs of other minority groups. I would take a good caucasian blonde hair blue eyed Swedish or Australian lady over an Asian American woman any day of the week. During the time I spent in New York, I met a lot of hispanic women, and I thought most of them were not friendly at all. When some guys talked to me about South American women I looked at them weird, I realized then(after visiting SA myself) that they were talking about hispanic women living in South America, not the USA. I think if you meet the woman of your dreams abroad, I will give you my congratulations, but stay with her in her home country, because when you bring her back she will change, she will realize who she is relative to a lot of the rather plain and ordinary AWs, and she will develop an ego.
Gentlemen,
Correct me if I am wrong, but I was kind of under the impression that undesireable behavior and attitudes are on a continuum, with AW's the worst, followed at a (great)distance by Canadians (less so the native french speaker types), Aussies, Brits, and other Western European countries (e.g. Germany, Finland, Switzerland etc).
Also, I saw something greatly disturbing. I watched part of a documentary purportedly about a woman going to one of the former Soviet states (the Ukraine I think) to search for living relatives of her Grandmother. Locating them took about 20 minutes into the film, and the rest was mostly about attempts to start a feminazi movement there in the Ukraine. It was highly disturbing. I'm sure that by the time that something like that effectively takes hold there, I will be worried about things like not being able to chew a steak, and soiling myself in public, but I could be wrong too. The world could be doomed.
Short story, I swear it is true.
I was dating a black women in Panama a few years ago, and she stated to me one day, -- "why do American black girls have so much attitude? Are they really like that?" She then gave me an imitation of an American black girl based on what she had seen on TV. It was pretty hilarious with her putting her hands on her hips, and pretending to be really angry about everything.
My response to her was, "No, all American women are like that."
Yes, don't confuse United States women with western women. The women from mainland Europe are very pleasant in general, and of course a large % are very sexy.
United States women are androgynous, and typically lack grace, beauty, and humor. I'm not speaking about every women in the US, only the vast majority.
Based on my own personal experiences, I think African American women have the worst attitude of all AW. I generally have no issues with other black women from other countries or AW of other ethnic groups. Simply put, most women want a man to behave like a man. I tend to inter balance my relationships with real kindness and a take no bullshit attitude, this tends to keep women offbalance. I would not recomend this with an African American woman, because she might just cap your ass.
From the gist of the posts here, I was under the impression that "Western Women" (or Western-IZED Women) are the undesirables who have an overly developed sense of entitlement. They are the ones who would think nothing of making a man jump through multiple hoops under the guise that he will be rewarded for his time and effort, only to end up giving a reward DISPROPORTIONATE to the amount of effort put forth, or NO REWARD AT ALL. White women certainly don't have a monopoly on this description, as I have seen black women (and American Latinas) voice their demands as if it were a constitutional right.
Here's some good advice, if you run into the woman of your dreams while overseas in another country, its much better just to remain with her in her country than bring her back. One thing that is certain is that she will change, and depending upon the nationality, the change will occur rather quick. I have met women in Australia hoping that I would take them back to the States, these type of ladies I avoid, they maybe nice to me, but they are obvious visa hunters, besides it took a lot of effort and discipline for me to move there, I am not letting no woman take away the fruits of my labor.
[url]http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2005/07/04/homolka-monday050704.html[/url]
This babe is now out. She might be just right for a few of the AW hating losers. Worth a shot anyway. And she is - or was - open to ideas.
Domino, I knew you couldn't stay away from this thread for too long. How's Thailand?
Anyway, the story you posted is about a French speaking Canadian, so I wasn't initially sure why you posted it here. However, there is one interesting point about the story that does validate what we AW hating losers (your words) see all too frequently, which is society's assumption that women are not inherently evil but that any evil act of any women is somehow caused due to the influence of a man. This presumption is what leads the Canadian government to eagerly strike this deal with the devil, only to later realize their mistake. I just hope that the Canadians are smart enough to realize that it is this presumption that allows this type of behavior to perpetuate.
Think about it, if you tell your son to do his chores & you do not punish him when he fails to do them, do you think you son will do his chores? Would your daughter behave any differently? People will always do that which they are allowed to get away with. This is not only man's nature - its human nature.
Domino, I'm really surprised that you posted that story for us to read. Does this mean you are beginning to come around to the AW hating loser way of thinking?
Good to hear from you, Domino. Don't stay away so long next time.
ILAS
American Women Suck - I think Domino is starting to see this!
I found this to be kind-of curious.
My American Size Doesn’t Fit My Asian Clothes
By Thuy Ngo, Silicon Valley De-Bug. Posted June 27, 2005
A young Vietnamese American woman is medium-sized by American standards. But when she walks through the doors of her local Vietnamese store, she balloons to an "extra-large" -- and feels less beautiful, and less Asian.
I went out with my mom one night to the Asian plaza a little ways down from our house. I needed some dress pants for an occasion that was coming up. My mom said she knew of this particular Vietnamese store where she had shopped for pants.
The lady in the store was an acquaintance of my mom's. She handed me a pair of size small pants. My mom held the pants up to me, shook her head in disappointment, and asked for a larger size. We all finally settled on a Size XL: extra-large.
I felt so humiliated. Here I was with my mom, in this Vietnamese store, and she's explaining to me in Vietnamese something that roughly translates to, "Honey, you got too much junk in the trunk."
Vietnamese stores are like huge department stores condensed into one little room. They sell clothing, shoes, perfume, lotions, toys, calendars, undergarments -- the list goes on and on. The clothes are meant for juniors, in terms of fashion sense as well as size. They are brightly colored and meant to be very chic -- which they are, depending on who's wearing them.
I knew I'd gained a little weight, but this situation at the store was horrible. As I remember, I used to be a medium in Vietnamese sizes. I still am in American sizes. At 21, I'm 5'7" and weigh 130 pounds. These proportions are considered average for an American woman. But by Vietnamese fashion standards, my current dimensions are definitely not "medium."
This made me think that I simply am not Asian enough. American beauty standards may be harsh, but at least there is room for the plus-sized woman in American fashion. With 130 pounds being considered "extra-large," there is no room at all for the plus-sized woman in these Vietnamese stores.
That's me: the extra-large Asian. As a Vietnamese woman, I feel I am not Asian enough to shop in Vietnamese stores. Your question might be, "Why not shop at another store? Wouldn't it be easier?" I could, but why should I have to stop shopping at stores that carry my culture's fashions?
At first, I could not figure out what it was about wearing a size extra-large from the Vietnamese store bothered me so much. After all, the pants fit me the same as the Size 8's I gladly purchase at American stores. Then it came to me. "Small" means you are cute and adorable. Small means you are beautiful. Small means you are Asian.
My own standards have been somewhat distorted by hanging around my friends from the Vietnamese association at my school, with their model-like proportions. Everyone is so thin, and many are practicing careers as fashion models in the community by doing Vietnamese pageants. I consider myself healthy, but I will never be as thin as they are.
At the Vietnamese store, I was left thinking, "What am I going to do? I need pants!" I do not want to go on a diet. I do not want to join a gym. We average Asian American female folks ought to be able to shop at clothing stores that reflect our cultures without having to wear the "XL" tag -- if we can find clothes that fit us at all.
In the end, there was nothing else to do. I bought those pants. I was humiliated and enraged. My mom shouting "Her butt's too big!" didn't help. After we left, I told my cousin what had happened. She comforted me by saying, "Don't be ashamed. Booty is a beautiful thing."
PNS contributor Thuy Ngo, 21, is a writer for Silicon Valley De-Bug.
[QUOTE=Cyberdas][/QUOTE]Ha ha, that was funny.. :)
I have pretty much the opposite "problem". I have quite narrow shoulders, and size "S" shirts fit me best. And I am definitely not "small" per se.
And European "S" is usually smaller than American "S", I understand.
Don't listen to the pizza man, he sits in in his mom's living room acting as a troll on this discussion board topic. I am having suspicions that he is an American woman posing as a guy. Either that or he is unemployed and can't afford the international airfare and exotic vacations that us on this board can afford, so who is the real loser? I travelled the world, and much of my negativity towards American women is for the simple fact that they suck.
Also relevant is his sheer number of posts. Granted, not all of mine have been chock full of substance, but (in my estimation), the only way that someone could have that many (presumably over what, a couple of years) is to spew a lot of crap.
Pizza man kind of half way reminds me of CB's description-loser troll in mom's living room, and then also (unless it is all just a trollish put on), one of those Sensative New-Age Guys who believe that they are going to get somewhere with women because they toe the line and spout off about opression, feminism, etc etc.-and aren't smart enough to realize that AW's respond to this by soaking them for drinks, and then going off to bone a neanderthal.
I found out something that kind of depressed me. An old friend of mine who I had lost touch with for many years got conned into playing "white knight in shining armor" for (I'm fairly confident-haven't gotten the whole story) some slug and her multiple kids. He (great guy, smart and funny)of course never really had self esteem, and was probably thrilled beyond comprehension to have any woman accept him. Poor guy. All I can do is let him know that there are alternatives out there (like hot EE girls who don't care that you are 36 years old with a 44 inch waist), and hope that he comes to his senses some day.
B9K, your friend reminds me of the old game show "Let's Make a Deal". He "settled" for what he thought was the best he could get without taking the risk of going abroad and seeing what was behind the curtains of other countries. Now he's living with a third-rate skank appliance that he found behind curtain number One instead of owning the penthouse condo behind curtain number Two or the Enzo Ferrari behind curtain number Three. Poor guy... I just hope he gets fed up SOONER rather than later, and discovers whats out there...
If you want to know what the problem with many AW is, maybe look in a mirror. I went through some of CBCG's very many posts:almost all of them were on AW, the morality of skanking or German clubs. If Aussie women are so great, go out and fuck them, if you can, and quit complaining about women an ocean away from you. Get over the fact that AW rejected you for the loser that you are. Bart loser: your "logic: is that anyone who disagrees with you and has a lot of posts "spews out a lot of crap". Granted CBCG and other perpetual moaners on this thread of rejects does spew out crap but not everyone does.
iloveanalsex: The French Canadian woman had first been mentioned by Dickhead some weeks ago when an interesting discussion was, for once, taking place here. But then one of the retards stopped that. I just figure most guys posting on this thread are not worth it. They have hangups about women, and they are social retards who, lacking social outlets, have to come here to biatch about their failures, leaving the fields to their betters.
I sometimes mention this thread of losers to my friends and I almost always think of the guys who post here when I read about violent crimes against AW. Motive is certainly present. But hey, don't let me stop your hen's party. Biatch on.
I did not know about the previous discussion concerning the Canadian, so thank you for the follow up.
When you posted the story about the Canadian lady, I thought for a moment that you were coming around to our way of thinking. I guess I should have known better.
Hey Domino, you know it’s not too late to come over to the light.
Oh now I know who pizza man is, he is a homo from San Francisco that has full blown AIDS, and can't get butffucked by his boyfriend Sergio because he has AIDS induced lesions in his ass. Since he cannot get any anal sex from his buddy he has decided to be the faggot gofer for some AW feminazis. Yes its great to live in ocean away from American women. Oh whenever I see a walking human whale in Australia, she is almost 95 percent of the time, an American female tourist. I had the same experience in Germany, a fat American woman(after she nearly finished half of the breakfast buffet meant to serve a hotel with 100 guests) got into an elevator made for more slender Europeans, and got stuck in the door, rather than help her I laughed. Is Donald Trump a loser for marrying a Slovenian? Is George Clooney a loser for dating a European? Please, there are world class women in many countries of the world and I intend to shag as many as possible.
Only one way to deal with a troll - ignore it.
CBGB,
When you were in Europe, you must have been wearing fat blinders or something. I spent a large part of a decade there and have to say there are plenty of fat people. The US does however, seem to be leading the field.
CW
apparently obesity is an epidemic in europe as well as the us. here’s an article about a residential weight loss camp for children, or fat camp. however, note that the camp was fashioned after the us style camps, so it appears the us does lead the way in obesity. here’s the webpage: [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/397323.stm[/url]
uk
fat camp opens its doors
critics of the camp say it could make children feel worse
britain's first residential camp to help obese youngsters lose weight has opened.
based on us 'fat camps', it caters for 40 children whose parents have paid up to £2,000 for a six-week stay.
on arrival at leeds metropolitan university, the youngsters had their height, weight and body fat measured.
one of the group is a 12-year-old boy who weighs 20 stone, while the average weight of the children is 13 stone.
they are to be put on a low-fat diet and taught how to moderate their eating.
they will also be encouraged to play different types of sport and and will be given cookery and nutrition classes.
camp director paul gately, 28, a former british junior athlete who has worked at similar camps in the us, said: "it's a holiday camp for kids with a by-product that they change their lifestyles and body shape.
"they might not lose any weight but they will have gained muscle and lost fat.
"children who are overweight tend to suffer a great deal of ridicule at the hands of their peers.
"this camp will raise their self-esteem so they can join in sporting activities without embarrassing themselves," he added.
camp under-subscribed
most of the children at the camp will stay for a month, some for the minimum two weeks and the rest for six weeks.
although 150 places were offered, only 40 have been filled.
mr gately believes this is because of the cost, which has been partly or fully-funded by the local authorities of just three children.
research shows that 9% of girls and 13% of boys are now classed as overweight.
similar camps in the us have helped children lose up to five stone in eight weeks under strict diet and fitness regimes.
pressure to look perfect
but there are critics who claim that such a summer camp is indicative of society's growing obsession with having the perfect image rather than informing youngsters about leading a healthy lifestyle.
child psychologist dr charlie lewis said: "although there are benefits to children staying slim, i wonder whether incarcerating children in such camps is not just another way of trying to get everybody to conform to the norm.
"parents who might think their children don't have the right look could see this as a quick way of giving them a makeover.
"they could treat these camps as teenage health farms expecting to have the children returned manicured, groomed and re-styled.
"i'm sure if i had obese children i wouldn't consider sending them to such a place. children change so quickly when they are growing up it might just be that they have puppy fat."
but mr gately said children attending the course had been hand-picked for suitability.
he said: "we are not talking about youngsters who are a few pounds overweight. those coming on the course have all been identified as being obese according to world health organisation guidelines.
"they will take part in a range of activities which encourage them to take up sport and exercise for their own long term health benefits.
"unlike the us camps we are not just aiming to get kids to lose weight. what happens over there is that they lose weight and then put it all back on again as soon as they go home.
"children at their camps are only allowed 1000 calories a day while our students will be allowed between 1300 and 2300 a day. the menu includes roast beef, chicken fajitas and cottage pie - so you can see we are not trying to starve the kids.
"parents will also be involved in an educational programme to help their children."
but professor nick finer, of the obesity research centre based at luton and dunstable hospital, bedfordshire, said: "you have to consider the psychological effects of sending your child away to such a place.
"society already discriminates against fat people and i'm concerned that children might see being sent to these camps as a punishment for being fat."
This is the sound of me not feeding the pathetic little troll.
[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]From the gist of the posts here, I was under the impression that "Western Women" (or Western-IZED Women) are the undesirables who have an overly developed sense of entitlement. [/QUOTE]
SM,
Did you mean Western-IZED or Western-SIZED?
Seems like the latter might be a more apt description of the large lovelies so common in America these days.
I guess if you bring a girl back to the states you have to worry about her becoming Western-sized as well as Westernized.
A-HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I LIKE that one, LS! Western-SIZED.... Hehehehehe.... that's gonna have me chuckling all day
I havent posted for over a year but after the last few weeks of being beat up i thought i would share some of the latest here from the EV of Manhattan USA.
I have a rommate here from Australia, a 33 yr old Chinese Australian woman. She is, to me, a sort of average looking woman, not terribly interesting although she does have an unusually large upper body. =-)
This woman, even as average as she is, has been propositioned at least a dozen times in just a few weeks. She seems to just expect to be fawned over and last night at the bar was a great example.
She had at least 3 men hanging on her more or less begging for some lovin. She again turned them all down.
I, on the other hand, sat there with my dick in my hand for about a 1/2 hour looking around for someone to talk to. Nada.
What would it be like to have so many options? I mean, i am a successful entrepreneur, with decent looks, great health, freedom, great family etc, etc, and i cant catch a fucking cold in this city.
I keep hearing that women outnumber men here? I have to be looking in the wrong places. Even the female dogs here have multiple multiple options for relationships.
WTF is going on?
That's why I left New York Fucking City, I now actually live in Australia, the women down under are alright by me, have treated me good. New York is a shitty place, its dirty, the people are aggressive and nasty, and you get ripped off for everything. Things aren't going well for you, then leave, who gives a shit if things didn't go well for you in NYC, visit other places, you won't even remember New York after you do.
I wish it were that easy CBGB, but when youve got your business set up here, family and friends its not easy to pick up and move to a place like CR. Although over the coming years I may do just that.
Another trend and characteristic of the AW that is a sure tip-off is their ability to cook. This woman here does not know how to cook. How is that possible? Think about it, it means she was raised in a home where things must have been chaotic. How would a mother not teach her own daughter how to cook?
When I meet a woman and she says her ability to prepare a meal does not go past ordering from a local place it is an immediate X in the negative column.
I think it has to do with the total rejection of the concept of the housewife that these women strive toward. The whole idea of Susy Homemaker is all but evil and with that the beautiful art of preparing a wonderful meal for someone else gets removed from the equation.
This manipulative "c-word" that is my roommate doesnt know how to cook at all. She wont do her laundry but yet shes got about 10 hopelessly fawning NYC losers just hoping for attention from her. Its sickening.
[url]http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0705/242170.html[/url]
[QUOTE=mister_smooth] Another trend and characteristic of the AW that is a sure tip-off is their ability to cook. This woman here does not know how to cook. How is that possible? Think about it, it means she was raised in a home where things must have been chaotic. How would a mother not teach her own daughter how to cook?,,, The whole idea of Susy Homemaker is all but evil and with that the beautiful art of preparing a wonderful meal for someone else gets removed from the equation.[/QUOTE]
Hey, I'm a good cook and so is Dickhead. Sorry but the idea of making you food does not enthrall me. Maybe sign up for a cookery 101 class and pick up a nice AW there. Or do you prefer your women pre packaged and pre loved?
Boy, out of all the Australian women that you could have ran into, you ran into a bad orange. I personally avoid the majority of Asian women in Australia. The only ones I have found to be decent come from Malaysia, Thailand, and Singapore. You can't collectively label all Asian women as one entity, there are different cultures in the region, and some Asian women are ultra materialistic and as superficial as an upper class American woman, especially those from Japan, S. Korea, and HK. As far as getting laid, regular European Australian girls serve my purpose just fine, they don't seem to be as motivated to get into gold digging since these long time Australian women live in one of the most comfortable societies in the world . The theory of East vs. West is bullshit, I have met a lot of white women from Eastern Europe, Western Europe, South America, and Australia/NZ that are quite honest and don't bullshit with me and were the most honest and true women I have known. I never go for some broad from some ultra desperate country, those issues cloud her true reasons for her interest in me.
Did your roommate tell you why she left Australia in the first place & did she ever comment on her treatment while she lived down under? Just curious.
As far as cooking, Domino’s article in post #2589 is a good one. I think the article is dead on about all of the pressures pulling people out of the home.
Part of the reason is family life is not valued anymore. Remember when schools taught home economics? Not anymore, I guess the school board feels that home-ec is no longer important (however, passing out condoms, informing kids of their abortion rights & teaching kids about alternative lifestyles/alternative families – now that’s important). Throw in television, pop music, feminism & government, and the traditional family is being attacked from all angles, so it is inevitable that traditional activities would begin to suffer.
Another reason is people are too busy to do anything but work. People say they are too busy to exercise, too busy to sleep more than 5 hours a night, & so busy that they are too tired for sex. Now I don’t know if people truly are too busy, or if people have become spoiled & are just too impatient, but time wasting activities like cooking are no longer high on the list of priorities.
Anyway, thanks for posting Mr. Smooth.
Here are some articles about the busy lifestyles of modern people.
[url]http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Health/story?id=868775[/url]
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/3053186.stm[/url]
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]you ran into some slant eyed reject.[/QUOTE]
Gee, and in a post such as this you come off as such a charming racist and so full of overall good will it's hard to imagine that all women, including those in NYC, don't simply flock to you!
I understand that this is the unofficial "trash women and get your overall bile out" thread, but even here the limits and guidelines of the forum should be observed. Your attack on Domino was also over the line -- whether you care for his posts or not, personal attacks of that ilk are really inappropriate.
I've spent time yakking in this thread in the past because at times there's very interesting discussion, but other times this ends up simply being a pool of catty whiners who simply relentlessly attack anyone with a divergent point of view. I recall a post a while back discussing the horrifying conversation someone overheard from a group of women at a table -- this discussion of late could make that one seem downright friendly. Lighten up, guys!
Joe, a friend of mine who visits Thailand three times a year, uses that term quite liberally. Anyway I'm trying to make a point on the East vs. West dichotomy. This thread was originally trashing American women, as they deserve it more than any other identifiable group of women. Some people have made additional insinuations about "Western" women, referring to European, Canadian, and Australian women. They use the term "western" as a pc way of mentioning white women. Some have used the collective label of Western women to include all American, Canadian, European, and Australian women as being in the same boat. This is highly inaccurate, as I have found some beneath the surface differences between all these groups. Some have tried to compared Asian ladies to Western women, I have actually met many caucasian women who are perfectly fine and turned out to be some of the best experiences I have had. I have met Asian ladies who turned out to be the biggest dragon ladies I have met, thinking they would use me as a bank account and a ticket to a visa to a more comfortable western country. I think the real problem women are American women, other than that only British women are almost as bad but less obnoxious than their US counterparts.
I've spent plenty of time in Thailand, and I've never used the term, so what the heck does your comment mean? Liberally used racist remarks are still racist remarks, and the use of them undermines rather than strengthens your point. [i]My[/i] point is that there are standards for discussion on the board, including not using racist terms and not engaging in personal attacks on other members, and I'm calling on folks here to keep them in mind.
As far as your point about Asian women -- if you think money and potential economic status isn't an important factor in basically all economically depressed areas you're fooling yourself. The fact that it's seen as a normal and understood thing in many Asian cultures simply makes it more apparent, as there's no reason for subterfuge. Keep in mind that in many cases daughters are sent into prostitution because it's seen as a viable way for them fulfill their obligation to support their family -- why would a foreign male be looked at as some sort of special case where economics is not a factor? Social climbing is world-wide -- I remember reading newspapers in New Delhi where families were hawking their "rich, handsome merchant-class" kids to "poor and plain" Brahmins for marriage as a way of moving future generations up the caste ladder.
I agree that there is a difference between Eastern and Western women, and I agree that there is variation between "all Western women" and American women, in the same way that there are differences between, say, Italian and Russian women, as cultural differences obviously come into play. This is hardly a deep point.
I changed the phrase "slant eyed reject" to " bad orange " to make it more pc. However the Asian women I was mentioning come from rich countries, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Singapore, these places are hardly economically depressed and match the big four EU countries in terms output. I have met nice women from the former Soviet bloc and they weren't so aggressive about money as their Asiatic counterparts. A Bulgarian woman I met in Germany, earned my trust so much, that I kept the doors of my apartment open and never had one thing of mine missing. She wasn't as materialistic as some Asian women I have met in the States.
One of the reasons I am iffy about Asian women is the way an African American friend of mine was treated by a Japanese waitress, its absolutely unacceptable, if the waitress was a waiter, I would have punched his lights out. The same friend of mine went everywhere else in Sydney and was treated good by the local ladies, a lot of women stopped him and tried to get his number, some wanted his autograph or to take a picture with him. If the same guy gets treated like a superstar by blonde hair blue eyed Australian women, I don't know what some slant eyed twat has against him. I have noticed on quite a few occasions that East Asian people are very racist towards darker skinned folks. This is the same friend of mine who was stationed with me in Germany in the early 90's, who also got plenty of good attention from German chics. I ain't racist, I got friends of many ethnic backgrounds.
Karla Homolka is not a French-speaking Canadian. She is from Ontario and is an English-speaking Canadian.
French Canadian women are okay by me, I thought they were among the best in the world.
The more I read CBGB's posts, the more I come to the conclusion that he just doesn't like women. I don't think its the case with most of the guys on this thread, but a lot of men who patronize hookers actually hate women despite loving sex. CBGB seems to fit that profile.
Travis Bickle.,,aka Civ2000
[QUOTE=Domino]If you want to know what the problem with many AW is, maybe look in a mirror. I went through some of CBCG's very many posts:almost all of them were on AW, the morality of skanking or German clubs. If Aussie women are so great, go out and fuck them, if you can, and quit complaining about women an ocean away from you. Get over the fact that AW rejected [/QUOTE]
Domino, Exactly! I've always noticed with me and all my friends that we quit complaining about the ex as soon as we're with a new woman and getting laid. If I am living in Australia and getting laid by beautiful women, the chances are almost nil that I'll post a hundred reports bashing AW. I'd get over it pretty quickly I'm sure.
These guys sound like a bunch of nerds who still haven't gotten over that Jr. High cheerleader that wouldn't go to the dance with them. They are middle-aged men with balding heads and beer bellies who are whining because some twenty-year-old won't date them here in the states. On the other hand, they refuse to date forty-year-old women that would probably treat them great. Hmmm...how strange a man complaining about American women, when they are the exact mirror image.
Of course the only reason a hot young American woman would date a guy like you is for your money. If they want to get laid they would pick a young hot guy. Its even that way in every country. Maybe in Australia there is less competetion for good-looking women. Anyway, none of the semi-good looking, and semi-successful guys I know in this country have any problem finding good women, and they certainly don't have to travel 8000 miles to get laid.
I can see maybe 1-5 posts complaining about American women: but when you do it everyday for months, a single word comes to mind: LOSER!!!
Travis Bickle
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]I changed the phrase "slant eyed reject" to " bad orange " to make it more pc...
One of the reasons I am iffy about Asian women is the way an African American friend of mine was treated by a Japanese waitress, its absolutely unacceptable... If the same guy gets treated like a superstar by blonde hair blue eyed Australian women, I don't know what some [b]slant eyed twat[/b] (yeah, this is Mister PC all right --JM) has against him. I have noticed on quite a few occasions that East Asian people are very racist towards darker skinned folks. This is the same friend of mine who was stationed with me in Germany in the early 90's, who also got plenty of good attention from German chics. I ain't racist, I got friends of many ethnic backgrounds.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, you ain't racist, except agin dem dam Asians, what make up more'en haff the world. Puhleeze! This has nothing to do with being PC, it has to do with following forum rules. Being "iffy" would be a major improvement.
And again, you show that you have little understanding of Asians and their perspectives regarding social mores. A dislike of dark skin is not at all uncommon in Asian countries, but it's not about race, it's about class -- many Asians are leery of getting out in the sun lest they get darker, and thereby look like farmers, that is, poor folk. And no one wants to look poor, even if they are, because that means you're from the lower class and are treated accordingly. There's no question that there is a strain of xenophobia among the Japanese and Thais, among others, but you could also take a look at the posts of Meatman, who's reported what a benefit it's been to him to be African-American in Thailand, as hip-hop culture, the NBA, etc., has put him into the class of rich, hip, and culturally significant, and he is treated accordingly. As an American, you are used to a largely classless (or at least transparently, based on money, classless) society, so judgements on how other places deal with issues of class and social status require stepping outside of your natural perspective.
Extrapolating from one Japanese waitress to an entire region is one of the reasons your perspective comes off as being suspect. If you want to just date blonde and blue-eyed Aussies, great, and if you want to have cogent discussions on things, even better, but enough already of the racist crap.
This was sent to me in an e-mail & I got a kick out of it (I know, I'm easily entertained). Enjoy
The Guys' Rules - Finally, the guys' side of the story.
We always hear "the rules" from the female side. Now here are the
rules from the male side. These are our rules!
Please note... these are all numbered "1" ON PURPOSE!
1. Men ARE NOT mind readers.
1. Learn to work the toilet seat. You're a big girl. If it's up, put it down. We need it up, you need it down. You don't hear us complaining about you leaving it down.
1. Sunday sports. It's like the full moon or the changing of the tides. Let it be.
1. Shopping is NOT a sport. And no, we are never going to think of it that way.
1. Crying is blackmail.
1. Ask for what you want. Let us be clear on this one: Subtle hints do not work! Strong hints do not work! Obvious hints do not work! Just say it!
1. Yes and No are perfectly acceptable answers to almost every question.
1. Come to us with a problem only if you want help solving it. That's what we do. Sympathy is what your girlfriends are for.
1. A headache that lasts for 17 months is a problem. See a doctor.
1. Anything we said 6 months ago is inadmissible in an argument. In fact, all comments become null and void after 7 days.
1. If you think you're fat, you probably are. Don't ask us.
1. If something we said can be interpreted two ways and one of the ways makes you sad or angry, we meant the other one.
1. You can either ask us to do something or tell us how you want it done. Not both. If you already know best how to do it, just do it yourself.
1. Whenever possible, please say whatever you have to say during commercials.
1. Christopher Columbus did not need directions and neither do we.
1. ALL men see in only 16 colors, like Windows default settings. Peach, for example, is a fruit, not a color. Pumpkin is also a fruit. We have no idea what mauve is.
1. If it itches, it will be scratched. We do that.
1. If we ask what is wrong and you say "nothing," we will act like nothing's wrong. We know you are lying, but it is just not worth the hassle.
1. If you ask a question you don't want an answer to, expect an answer you don't want to hear.
1. When we have to go somewhere, absolutely anything you wear is fine...Really.
1. Don't ask us what we're thinking about unless you are prepared to discuss such topics as baseball, the shotgun formation, or monster trucks.
1. You have enough clothes.
1. You have too many shoes.
1. I am in shape. Round is a shape.
1. Thank you for reading this.
Yes, I know, I have to sleep on the couch tonight; but did you know men really don't mind that? It's like camping.
Okay, well back to the topic at hand. American women, to put it mildy, suck. I don't care if they're white, black, yellow, brown, orange(believe it or not I met a person with orange skin), blue, etc., whatever God they pray to, they are all the same($$$$) regardless of their ethnicity. Some posters I have noted had used the term "Western" women as a collective term to place women from all Western countries in the same boat. This is highly inaccurate, because I have met some rather open and friendly women from many highly affluent and technologically advanced Western countries. The facts are the facts, American women suck.
Here is a true story of mine.
Two years ago I dated a 35 year old American woman who seemed like she had it all: attractive, smart, friendly, talented, single, & no baggage. I could not believe that she was still single at her age & had never been married. She admitted to me that she dated a lot, but no guy had ever asked for her hand in marriage.
So, I asked her some questions.
She told me that wanted to marry a guy soon, then quit work & do hobbies. She didn't want children, at all. She didn't do any housework, at all. She said that she wanted her future husband to work & pay all her bills.
She said that if he wanted to quit work, stay home, & do hobbies, then "That would be a problem...I would have a problem with that." She said that she wanted a traditional household. Yet the only traditions she really wanted were male responsibilities (work, support her, & pay all the bills).
She would do nothing. No traditional female responsibilities (no cooking, no cleaning, no childbirth, no child raising, no second job, Nothing except sexual favors rationed out 1 to 4 times a month & oral sex once a year, on the guy's birthday). Wow! What a catch she was! After hearing all this I understood how she was still single at 35 years old.
I thought about her character, or lack of character. And, I dumped her the next day.
End of story.
Well that Chinese Aussie chick is out of my life what a nightmare.
Last night, i forced myself to watch a little Sex & the City, which to me typifies a lot of the problems in America. I wanted to barf at this show.
This show is written by gay men about hetero women. The difffernce is that men in general are more influenced by looks/esthetics than women...historically. It is stressed in this show, often subtely, that a man has to have a certain look. In one scene there was this 40 something dog of a blonde in a shower with what mustve been a gay teenage guy with big pecs, collegiate chin and a full head of hair. At one point he asks if he can shave this broad's p*sssy. he he. Only on tv....
Forget it if you have thinning hair (which most men over 35 yrs have) are a little overweight or arent a pretty boy.
I think this show manipulates the power of a relationship and instills a lot of stereotypes in younger women that they may not be aware of.
The male, "Big", as they call him was such a wimpy, tall and handsome, kiss-ass and i think that is what women expect now. They want a guy who will bend over backwards in all situations to appease the woman. Have a full head of hair and act like a wimp. This show is the beginning of the end.
My advice, New York and San Francisco are homo towns, and they are pretty much run by effiminate homos. Unless you are an anal raider, you are wasting your time living in either place. New York what a shithole.
What’s up Travis?
I thought your latest post, #2599, appeared to express an extraordinary amount of resentment. In fact, I was so intrigued that I searched some of your previous postings. There seems to be a striking resemblance between your past arguments & your recent condemnations. This is what I found:
***Then (post #2203/American Women: 03-31-05)***
[QUOTE=Travis Bickle 2] ...they are simply mirror images of American men.
This isn't meant to insult anyone here, but when I was twenty-years-old I did not pick up hookers. Why? Because I didn't need to. I could get all the young fresh meat I wanted. So, now that I'm approaching fifty, and still like to bang twenty-year-old girls, it does get frustrating that I can't just take them home like I used to. I could start bashing American women because one half my age won't go out with me, and say how wonderful some Chilean woman is because she will, but it doesn't change the fact.
I think if us guys were to chase the chubby fifty year old who goes to work everyday and is lonely like us, we wouldn't be bashing American women. We would find them great companions who weren't looking to break the bank. The problem with me is I just don't find them attractive (even though I'm a chubby, greying, fifty-something). I still chase the young girls and in the one in fifty times she actually wants to go out with me, quess what? She's after my money...Civ2000[/QUOTE]
***Now (post #2599/American Women: 07-13-05)***
…These guys sound like a bunch of nerds who still haven't gotten over that Jr. High cheerleader that wouldn't go to the dance with them. They are middle-aged men with balding heads and beer bellies who are whining because some twenty-year-old won't date them here in the states. On the other hand, they refuse to date forty-year-old women that would probably treat them great. Hmmm...how strange a man complaining about American women, when they are the exact mirror image.
Of course the only reason a hot young American woman would date a guy like you is for your money. If they want to get laid they would pick a young hot guy. Its even that way in every country. Maybe in Australia there is less competetion for good-looking women. Anyway, none of the semi-good looking, and semi-successful guys I know in this country have any problem finding good women, and they certainly don't have to travel 8000 miles to get laid.
*****************************
First let me say this - I AM NOT A PSYCHOLOGIST. However, it does seem to me that you may be harboring some latent psychological pain that has manifested in your writing. Mirror image is a recurring theme with you, which causes me to wonder when you created your last post, if you were writing to the members of this board or if you had a mirror image of yourself. The similarities are too coincidental to ignore.
Understand that I am not attacking you, Travis. I just know that our experiences, even the subconscious ones, have a way of showing up in the things we do today. When I read your last post, I detected a lot of personal hurt as opposed to outward hostility & I’m merely trying to understand the source of your resentment.
I do enjoy the open exchange of ideas & I thank you for sharing your thoughts. I hope it will continue.
ILAS
CBGB,
Thanks for all this important info. The Board appreciates it.
Now isn't it time for your medication? Please???
Smooth,
Thank you for commenting about that damned show. I have been meaning to do so for some time, but couldn't bring myself to watch it enough to analyze and comment on it. I personally view "Sex in the City" as a harbringer of the apocolypse, having witnessed groups of young girls stand around and discussing how "Sex's" protagonists "really know how to handle men". Yeah, there you go, demand physical and financial perfection from men while your ass continues to age and widen.
I purposely missed it, I'm pretty sure the show premiered last night on one of the networks (ABC?) - According to the commercials, it's about a handful of women in New York (?) trying to "find the right man" via online dating services.
The reason I mention it here is due to one of the clips they showed during a commercial for the show:
There's a woman on her cell phone, presumably telling her friend about a date she just went on. Her side of the conversation went something like "GOD! What an experience! I actually had to PAY! At one point during dinner he was licking his fingers - PULEEZE! - We're in a Restaurant!" [Pause while she's listening to her friend] "Did I sleep with him? - PULEEZE! - I had to PAY!"
I had to wonder, if he paid, then would she have slept with him? I'm pretty sure she was pissed off about having to pay, the "finger licking" was probably just thrown in as added justification for being disgusted.
CW
ILAS, Hey if you guys can post the same crap day in and day out, I certainly can rehash my opinion when I want to. There is really no resentment here. I think resentment usually manifests itself in the need to put others down, ie.American women. I love women; especially American women and have had great experiences with them. I have also had a long-term relationship with a Filipino lady and a woman from Singapore. I've definately had better luck with the American women. I have found Asian women (when they get over here) to be the biggest gold diggers and materialistic women in the world.
Right now I've slowed down with the hookers and am dating women my age and have found them to be delightful. Most offer to pay when we go out to dinner (well, at least every other time) and I really don't see anything remotely resembling the things you guys say here on the board. Of course, when I pick up hookers, I generally go for the twenty-year-olds because they are the ones I generally can't pick up in bars anymore. I'm sure if I were to focus merely on youth and beauty I would probably not have as good of luck and maybe start putting down American women like you guys do.
I bet if you look at the guys posting here frequently: CBGB and others, you would find some duplicity in their posts. Even if not, posting a hundred reports bashing any nations women is tiresome and boring. Get a life!
Travis
CBGB, Why all the deleted reports? Obviously you had something to say or you wouldn't have typed them in the first place. I notice there is a deleted report right after someone had something negative to say about you. You angrily type a rebuttal and then hit the delete button. Suggestion: Have some balls and say what you really think. Travis
Thanks for answering my post.
I think you misunderstood my last comment. I wasn’t referring to repetition at all. The Bible says “there is nothing new under the sun.” So anything that is said, thought of, or done has already been said, thought of, or done before. Men & women have been bitching about the opposite sex since Adam & Eve, so no one here is breaking any new ground.
Instead, I was trying to bring your attention to a psychological theory called transference, which is when emotions, thoughts and desires originally associated with one person (usually the advisor) are unconsciously shifted to another person (usually the person being counseled).
The latest posts had been talking about Asian-Americans, Western women & non-American Caucasian women. Yet, your post addressed these topics with this recurring theme from American Beauty (American Beauty is the 1999 Kevin Spacey film about a middle aged man wanting to bang his high school daughter’s classmate). You referred to only desiring twenty-year-olds; being fat, bald & undesirable; & not getting over high school cheerleaders. As I thought about the latest topics, your response just seemed to come out of left field. Then after reading your earlier posts, transference came to mind.
I was just wondering if you were harboring some deep seated unresolved issues. It’s no big deal. Most people in this forum have been scarred at some point in their life. And this is probably the best way to get it out. As men, we do not have many other avenues; mainstream society doesn’t care to deal with male issues.
Anyway, I’m glad to read everyone’s comments, so post away fellas.
ILAS
[QUOTE=Travis Bickle 2]CBGB, Why all the deleted reports? Obviously you had something to say or you wouldn't have typed them in the first place. I notice there is a deleted report right after someone had something negative to say about you. You angrily type a rebuttal and then hit the delete button. Suggestion: Have some balls and say what you really think. Travis[/QUOTE]
Well up yours faggot boy. You're same idiot who said he found Jesus in the middle of the cleavage of some streetwalker. Go fuck yourself.
Hey, that's better. It seems that even banging beautiful Aussie chicks has you in a fowl mood per usual. I believe you probably still live at home with your mother and are resentful of American women because mama doesn't approve of the ho'ers you try to bring home. Anyway, I'm going to stop viewing this thread. Despite some thoughtful and interesting posts by Joe Zop and others, this continuation of the same BS month after month is dull. You guys who are getting laid by gorgeous young chicks can continue to bash women for another 100 years for all I care. Later. Travis
In case some of you are thinking that Australia is heaven on earth for women, let me point out that a lot of CBGB's comments sound a bit over the top. As an Australian, I don't find the utter friendliness that he does. Granted, Aussies are more friendly than most Western women. But the ***** factor is still there. I've seen far too many horror stories of girls taking off, cleaning out guys totally, expecting everything to be paid for and giving nothing in return (ever), total psycho chick behaviour etc, to think that the western woman disease hasn't made its way to Australia yet.
Sure, CBGB may be black, and american, which for sure should improve his chances down here - but saying that women are stopping his friend on the street and handing over names and phone numbers, well that's pushing the believability levels.
Some of the information he has provided is factually wrong as well. The one that stands out for me especially, is a quote that Australians have five weeks holidays. Well, if you have read the news down here lately, it is quite apparent that by law it is four weeks. I don't know anyone (outside of harsh conditions like mining and exploration) that have more than four weeks granted, without losing pay. The facts are often distorted enough about things very commonly known to Australians, that I wonder just how much he does know about the country.
I hear many times from other women (mainly asians) how sexy and attractive Aussie women are. Well yes about 5% can be pretty awesome in that way. The same with the USA too. But a recent survey reported in a major newspaper bore the truth: around 60% of women under 35 are overweight, and 50% of the under 35's have NO INTEREST in sex.
Run away while you can!
By the way, I have found aussie born asian girls to be some of the nicest girls around. They get the Asian niceness from the parents upbringing, and the aussie easy going nature from the environment. Despite the initial protestations about being a good girl, I've also found it not so hard to get it out of an asian student, and get it better, than the locals.
But your mileage may vary.
ILAS, Thanks for the information. I too, am familiar with King Solomon's writings in the book of Ecclesiastes. And sometimes I think that finding the perfect GFE is merely chasing after the wind.
Perhaps you are right and I do have some deep-rooted resentment that so far therapy and 12-step work haven't discovered, but I don't think so. But hey, I surely wouldn't rule it out.
To you it may have seemed my response was out of left field, but I haven't been reading the American women thread in a while. So my response came after reading about three weeks worth of posts. Perhaps I should have quoted some relevant post that I was ranting about. BTW, American Beauty is one of my all-time favorite movies. I actually preferred his daughter however, cheerleaders have never done a thing for me. I always preferred the more slutty looking punk type chicks.
Since you are into psychoanalysing folks, what's up with CBGB? Now, that's what I'd call resentment. The post he's referring to where I supposedly found Jesus in the cleavage of some SW, was a post where I responded in the morality of prostitution section about sometimes feeling guilt and remorse when picking up a young prostitute who's spending my money feeding a drug habit. That sent him into an attack mode where the moderator actually deleted his post. Hmm...someone that actually has a conscience caused a meltdown in him. Interesting. Now when I disagree with him, I get lambasted again. Hmm...obviously not a happy guy who is gleefully fucking Aussie's. I usually find when I attack others it stems from a dislike of myself.
I can (and have) disagreed with many members of this board (Joe Zop for instance) and have received a well-thought out rebuttal that actually makes me think and change my mind. What do you make of a guy that continually has to be right?
Anyway: American Women Rock, I'm going to bang one tonight for sure.
Travis
Hey Travis,
Thank you again for responding to my post.
Like I said before, we all have issues. I don’t think you can go through life without any.
As far as CBGB, I enjoy reading his posts as much as I enjoy reading everyone else’s. I haven’t psychoanalyzed CBGB, & I will not speak on his behalf. I much rather let the men in this forum speak for themselves.
Enjoy your AW tonight. AW can be awesome lovers when they do put out, although I still say overall, AW suck.
ILAS
[QUOTE=Hung Man 1808]
around. They get the Asian niceness from the parents upbringing, and the aussie easy going nature from the environment. Despite the initial protestations about being a good girl, I've also found it not so hard to get it out of an asian student, and get it better, than the locals.
But your mileage may vary.[/QUOTE]
I thought Asian women are some of the most cunning bullshit artists on the planet. They're only nice to you because you're the rich Westerner, for them white male from first world country = money + plush lifestyle. From my experience Asian women will warm up quickly because you are a potential ticket to the West and a more comfortable lifestyle. I find European women to be a lot more honest than Asians, followed by Latinas. I have met working class women from Europe, who I clicked with very well, and weren't expecting me to take them back home. I heard similar things from some South American women. Some actually invited me to stay in their countries. Even women I have met from poorer parts of Eastern Europe weren't trying to hit me up for money, even when I tried to offer them something, they would refuse.
As far as LTR, I have not met an Australian woman that I would marry, but many of them are still great to party with, which is okay by me.
BTW, I am not black, I'm white. I have a lot of black friends back in the States. One of them visited me here in Australia, and a lot of people looked at him like they have never seen a black person before. He was treated real good. There was another poster on this board, an African American guy, who was also experiencing some very warm treatment from local Australian women. The main issue is that there aren't many black people in Australia, so for some people its kind of exotic.
As far as Australia's obesity stats are concerned, Time magazine, ran an article last year on the worldwide obesity epidemic. According to the article, the US, the UK, Ireland, and Germany have the fattest populations in the Western world. France, Spain, the Netherlands, the Scandinavian countries, Greece, and Portugal were the thinnest first world countries. In that same article, Australia, Belgium, Canada, and Italy were listed as countries in between. It stated that about 30 percent of Australian women are either overweight or obese and about 40 percent of Australian men can be classified as either. This is nowhere near the 60 percent someone listed below. By the way, the US obesity rate according to the same magazine is on the order of 30 percent, with 65 percent of American women either overweight or obese. I was surprised about Germany because I could have sworn that most of the women I knew in Deutschland looked pretty thin to me.
When it comes to attraction, sometimes you have to do things that seem 'mean' or 'inconsiderate' on the surface in order to give a woman what she 'really' wants. If you don't do these things, you will fail the test, and ultimately fail with women.
We humans don't want what everyone else has... we want what everyone else has AND MORE. WOMEN AREN'T ATTRACTED TO GUYS THEY PERCEIVE AS AVERAGE.
Remember, ATTRACTION doesn't make logical sense... Women don't say "Oh, he's a kind, honest, loyal type of guy from a good family... AND THAT REALLY TURNS ME ON."
Nope.!!!!!! never( maybe some)
Women say things like:
"He's sexy"... "There's chemistry between us"... "I really feel something for him"... etc.
And also remember: If a woman feels a strong ATTRACTION for you, then the rest of the equation isn't as important. If she feels it, she'll go out of her way to find good reasons to be with you..even if you're not her "physical type".
On the other hand, no amount of gifts, favors, dinners, kindness, or a good family will make her feel ATTRACTION... at best these things can only make her feel a more "loyal" kind of love. So if women don't like "average" guys and the most important thing is to make her feel ATTRACTION towards you, then how do you do it?
Let's talk about the word "average" and what it REALLY means. As far as women are concerned, and especially the ATTRACTIVE ones, men are EVERYWHERE. They're like cars. Every once in awhile one stands out and makes you say "Oh, that one is nice."
A lot of guys take this concept too far and say "Well, I'm not rich, and I'm not famous... so no really hot woman is going to find me attractive." My opinion, women are far more ATTRACTED to things like attitude, confidence, body language, humor, etc. than looks or money. Sure, those things might INITIALLY get a woman's attention, and there are those women that will only settle for a rich or unusually handsome guy... but this is the extreme minority.
In fact, it's very easy to be seen as "above average" if you know what women are looking for, and you know how to deliver. Remember the danger: If you are perceived as "average" early on, then a switch goes off in her mind, and the game will be over before it's even begun.
Two things:
1) What most guys do that women see as "average", and...
2) What you can do to instantly be seen as "ABOVE average" and, most importantly, ATTRACTIVE.
First, let's talk about what most guys do in most situations (more specifically, what most guys do WRONG). Here are some of the things that I've seen...
If the setting is a bar or a club, most guys will either say "Can I buy you a drink?", "Wanna dance?", or "Hey baby, how YOU doin'?"... or they do crass things like stare at women with wanting eyes or grab them as they walk by.
If the setting is a public place, like maybe a woman working at a clothing store, a waitress, or some other similar high-traffic situation, most guys will ask a lame question like "Do you have a boyfriend?" or "Can I take you out sometime?"
Ugh.
These kinds of approaches can only result in you being seen as another lame, average guy.
Here are a few ideas to try instead...
If you're in a bar or club setting, try asking a woman or a group of women THEIR OPINION on something. I personally like this one:
"Hey, my friends and I were talking and we need a female perspective... What do you ladies think about this new trend of women being proud of paying their own way and buying their own things? Like the Destiny's Child song "Independent Woman?"
Women will usually ENTHUSIASTICALLY join into a conversation like this one. (I personally like this topic because it starts off by talking about women taking care of themselves in a positive light, which sets the stage for not having to pay for a lot of things right up front!)
If you're out in a public place, at a store where a woman is working or some other high-traffic place, you might try something like this:
After chatting about whatever business you're doing there, say "Hey, are you single?"
I love this question! It's such a shocker, and it says all the right things. Most guys say "Do you have a boyfriend?" which is the usual question. "Are you single?" is much more forward, and most women have to do a double take to think for a moment.
If she pauses, I say "I'll take that as a YES...", which is pretty funny and usually gets a laugh.
In either of these cases, it's now time to get the digits and get out. You already know that I'm not a fan of standing around and trying to keep a conversation going for any longer than you have to.
So after two or three minutes of small talk and general conversation, just go into the "3 Minute Phone Number"
Say "It was nice talking to you, I'm going to get back to my friends... (or shopping, or whatever)" and as you turn away, turn back and say "Do you have email...?" etc.
These two scenarios are obviously very simple, and also very easy.
[b]MeatMan[/b]
Hiya MeatMan! I like your post, but I take a slightly different (almost neglible in the difference) approach to the same thing. I've been reading the writings of Doc Love and the things he explained are WHY a woman STAYS with a man she chooses. Most of it all boils down to whether she perceives you as a CHALLENGE. Most guys will meekly ask a woman out without the confidence needed to close the deal. Most women realize after reaching a certain age that they can bend men to their will to a certain degree and will not hesitate to try and do so. HOWEVER, if you DON'T conform to the mold that she has seen so often, she will be intrigued and she will go on the hunt for this guy that has caught her "challenge scent". Myself, I now apply the rules faithfully. For instance, when I see a woman I've GOT to have, I simply walk up to her (in a setting that is comfy for her) and come right out and say: "Hi! I'd like to take you out. Can I have your number"? I haven't met very many women who are used to a guy having such cojones to risk rejection and come straight out to cut to the chase in a way they are not used to experiencing very often. Also, it serves as a tool to weed out the undesirables BEFORE you get your heart stomped on. The ones who have turned me down were barely able to contain their astonishment that I wasn't afraid to go after what I wanted. One even complimented me on my cojones to ask her in front of her coworkers, all who were standing around her waiting for her to answer my query. Anyway, I guess the gist is to carry yourself like you DESERVE to to be in the front of the line while the others wait in the background, never willing to take a risk.
Nice post Meatman, but I seem to recall someone else wrote that on sosuave.
Meat Man,
I read your post and it looks like you have a few good points. This is especially true when it comes to being seen as being special or exceptional in some way.
However, you're sadly wrong when it comes to making an approach. Think of a woman who is let's say, a 9 out of 10. She's ALWAYS getting hit on, approached, talked to....whatever, pretty much on a daily basis. I know this for a fact because my last 2 girlfriends and my wife all tell pretty much the same story. Guys are always trying to make contact in some way. It could be just saying hi, or asking fro directions, a cheesy pickup line or even asking them for an opinion on something (as you suggested).
Guess what? They see you coming from a mile away. 9 times out of 10 a woman will know that you're going to attempt contact before you even open your mouth. They already knew it was coming just from the way you were looking at them. What's more, there is virtually no approach they haven't seen..... nothing is original to them. All the while you are engaging in your "clever off-angle approach" they are thinking to themselves " hm, I give it 2 more minutes before this dufus tries to ask for my number."
Imagine that YOU got hit on once a day every day since you turned 17. By the time a beautiful woman reaches her mid twenties she will have been approached at least a couple of thousand times. You can rest assured that whatever strategy you come up with has surely been tried before.
The women do the choosing, we merely present ourselves in the best possible way.
Rock
Here's something slightly off topic, but relevant to this forum.
My list of TV's most annoying women.
1. Nancy Grace. Surely the perfect example of what a woman should NOT
be.
2. Sex in the City. Don't even get me started on this one.
3. Oprah Winfrey. Political correctness, empowerment and self-improvement
refined to a nauseating degree. All from a 50 year old woman who has no
kids, and is afraid to get married.
4. The View. Five loud, obnoxious, menopausal old hags yakking away for an
hour every morning...... what's not to like?
5. Desperate Houswives. Hot suburban American housewives, a good
(though unrealistic) premise. It's not how they look, but what they do
that really annoys me. Screwing around on their husbands, getting
divorced. Yeah, that'll set a real good example.
Well that's it, my top 5 most annoying shows. If anyone wants to share their own examples they are more than welcome.
Rock
by lorie a. parch
msnbc contributor
updated: 9:14 a.m. et july 14, 2005
when anne-marie,* the president and ceo of a start-up medical device company in philadelphia, first began thinking of having a child on her own, she was 37 and her biological clock was ticking loudly.
as much as she wanted to be in a great, loving relationship with a partner, she wanted a baby even more. “if i turned 50 and didn't have children," she says, "i'd be pretty devastated."
so after about a year of weighing her options and considering what it would be like to be a mother on her own, she did something a growing number of single women are doing: she chose an anonymous donor through a sperm bank and started her attempts to get pregnant, using drugs to encourage the growth of egg-producing follicles.
for seven months, anne-marie, now 42, did monthly inseminations, stopping for a year after she began, and then ended, a relationship. when she resumed her efforts, and after a total of 13 tries, she conceived her first son, pierre, born in november 2002.
birth of a movement
experts who follow single parenthood say more women than ever are choosing to get pregnant on their own, or adopt a child without a partner. but there are few hard numbers to point to.
the centers for disease control and prevention notes that preliminary birth data for 2003 show a 4 percent jump from 2002 in the number of births to unmarried women; nearly 35 percent of births in 2003 were to unmarried women. but that number includes women whose partner may be in the picture as well as women who go it alone.
children’s hope international, an international adoption agency, notes that nearly 13 percent of their adoptions are by singles.
and in the 24 years since starting single mothers by choice (smc), jane mattes, a psychotherapist and author of "single mothers by choice: a guidebook for single women who are considering or have chosen motherhood" (three rivers press, 1994), says she's seen tremendous growth in numbers. she started with eight members and now has more than 2000.
so what’s driving this trend? it comes as no surprise to hear that much comes down to timing. “the majority of women who become single moms by choice did want to get married," says mattes. "the reasons why they make this choice haven’t changed: they want to have children and if they’re not married or they’ve divorced they want to have them before it’s too late.”
for many women, the much-mocked biological clock may seem to wind down all too quickly, especially for those who are enjoying a wonderful time in their lives with good friends, a nice home and interesting, well-compensated work. then they realize they have little time left — and sometimes none — for having children.
“i think a lot of the reason there are more single women becoming pregnant on their own is because of careers,” says anne-marie. “i went to a big-name undergrad school and a big-name grad school, i traveled a lot, i worked overseas. it’s hard to meet somebody, if you didn’t want to date someone from work. all of a sudden you’re 37, 38 and you think ‘i should have prioritized this more.’ but you’re just doing what you enjoy.”
after her own wake-up call, anne-marie put on what she calls “the full-court press.”
“i joined a dating service and for six, nine, 12 months, i was dating more than i ever had," she says. "nothing came out of it, which is no surprise because with every man it was like, are you marriageable? do you want kids?”
mattes, who is arguably the midwife to this movement, says she has seen big changes in both the perception of single motherhood by choice and the choices women are making about how to create their families.
“the biggest change is that people know about it,” says mattes. “it’s not such a shock when someone says they had a baby alone; people always seem to know someone now.’”
women pursuing parenthood without a partner have also become something of an economic force, mattes notes. “we are a big consumer base of the sperm banks. they’re advertising in [the smc] newsletter; i think they’re looking at our growth — and we don’t represent half of the number of women who are doing this.”
in 1998, california cryobank, the biggest sperm bank in the united states, had about 60 percent couples and 40 percent singles as clients. today, that figure is reversed: about 60 percent of their customers are single women and/or lesbians. xytex, a bank based in atlanta, sees a similar trend. “at least 50 percent, and probably closer to 75 percent of our patients, are single women, meaning unmarried, whether heterosexual or homosexual,” says sheridan rivers, a supervisor of customer service and sales at xytex.
women’s — and, arguably, society’s — comfort level with single motherhood has come so far that more single moms are having a second child with donor insemination or adoption than in years past. “one child was the norm for the first 10 to 15 years [of smc]," says mattes. "now it’s very common to have more than one. they say, ‘if i had one child, i can have two.’ it’s much more normalized.” in march, anne-marie gave birth to her second son, henri.
more women who've hit a roadblock to motherhood owing to infertility are turning to adoption. adam pertman, executive director of the evan b. donaldson adoption institute and author of "adoption nation: how the adoption revolution is transforming america" (basic books, 2001), says current trends include more single african-american women adopting children from foster care and more single women adopting a child of a different race or ethnicity, or an older child.
difficult choices
single motherhood by choice may be a sizeable and still-growing trend, but it is the result of a series of personal and often very painful decisions made by every woman who considers it.
when she was about 30, holly vanderhaar decided that if she hadn’t met the man she thought would be her husband by 35, she’d start thinking about going it alone to become a mother. “i thought i had to meet someone — or go into a potentially bad marriage for the sake of having kids,” says the mesa, ariz.-based mother. “i said to myself, there is another option and that took the pressure off me for a while and i put it on the back burner.” (mattes notes that more older women and younger women are coming into smc as members. “we used to see a lot between 35 and 40. now we see more women in their mid-40s and late 20s. some people are very clear that they don’t want to wait until their fertility might be at risk.”)
at 35, with no husband material is sight, vanderhaar began eight months of treatment for a fibroid and an ovarian cyst so she could start trying to get pregnant; her first insemination, using donor sperm, took place two months before she turned 36. “it took five tries and i got pregnant on my only unmedicated cycle,” says vanderhaar. “it was twins — identical.”
at 15 weeks of pregnancy, she found how she had twin-to-twin transfusion syndrome, a rare, high-risk condition that required vanderhaar to fly to florida for surgery — but not before making the excruciating choice about whether to continue the pregnancy. “it was really, really hard to hear the news and be by myself and feel this huge, incredible responsibility and not have anyone to share the decision with,” she recalls. fortunately, the surgery went very well and daughters sian and sophie were born in april 2003.
in weighing the pros and cons of having a baby alone, a woman naturally looks at traditional families, in part to see what she would miss out on as a single mother. some women "grieve the dream," says mattes. “the majority of women who become single moms by choice did want to get married."
but others who opt to go this route don’t think they’re missing much. “with a lot of the relationships i see with my friends, you have a couple of kids and a husband you need to manage — it’s a lot of work to have a great marriage,” says anne-marie. “am i working harder as a single mom than a married mom? i don’t think so. in some ways, i’m working less hard because i don’t have another adult to work around and manage. in some ways it’s simpler.”
it takes a village
for women considering getting pregnant and raising a child on their own, single moms have one piece of advice that rises above all others: “you need a support system,” says mattes. “when you’re married it’s built in — you have him and his parents — but when we’re alone, we have to create it.”
anne-marie moved to new jersey to be near her parents; her neighborhood also includes two other single moms by choice.
vanderhaar also moved towns in the phoenix area to be closer to her mother and sister. “they’re so much help to me on a day-to-day basis,” she says.
local smc chapters can be a boon in finding other single moms, as well as women who are thinking about single motherhood or trying to get pregnant.
“you can do this single, but you really cannot do it alone," mattes says. "without a support system, it’s 10, 20 times as hard.”
Hmmmm, no husband to pay the bills, and no support payments if things aren't going so great. Kind of hard to take a test tube to court! :)
What do they tell their kids on father's day? Makes you wonder what this world is coming to.
Rock
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/london/4714731.stm[/url]
Gentlemen: If we agree the lady in question here deserved what she got, what is the best way to deal with troublesome %$^& like this? Also, if we green card a sperm receptacle and she does not work out, should we snuff her or let her walk? This guy was just an amateur but his case and that of his late lamented wife do raise some issues. Maybe he should have married an Australian but they don't speak English:). Or perhaps a Thai hooker? Anything but an AW, right guys? Any insights?
... is a dish best served cold. If said lady lunged at ME, I wouldn't clock her with my Sunday punch, but I WOULD put her in a joint lock that she'd remember to the grave. After cooler heads would prevail, I'd lay plans to fuck the foundation of her world. Gratification derived from cold, calculating planning is so much better than gratification achieved in an instant: you get to watch the puppet dance to your pulling of the strings. I'm not one to hit a woman if she wants to duke it out. HOWEVER, if she wields a weapon that could take me out, she may have to learn to use her weaker hand for a while...
Quite a while ago, CBGB made the wise suggestion of living in THEIR country (if you MUST get married) when the knot is tied. That is a big test of her character (will she develop an overwhelming Gold-digging drive to move to the US of A and suck the man dry of all he owns or will she be content living in her home country with her new hubby where the streets are NOT paved with Gold?). A perfect test of character? No. But bringing up the subject the moment matrimony is mentioned (from HER) will force her to show her cards.
As for AW's, they are EDUCATED on the means of sucking a man dry of his resources. Just look at any divorce/child custody case. Having to live in fear of being a slave to a witch's whims (backed by a spineless, biased court system) is no way to live.
My opinion of AW's stands firm, since I've witnessed (and continue to witness) close friends who grapple with vengeful, greedy spouses (or exes) whose only purpose in life, it seems, is to cause pain to another.
I like that line from Taxi Driver. Anyway, SM, it turns out female on male violence is quite common and military men are often on the receiving end for a variety of reasons. I know of cases myself and it can be very difficult for the men involved to walk. The Brit here who married the Korean did not know what he got himself into. That is what it all boils down to.
When the Thai thread weas in its heyday, some posters lke Skinless, Tapioca and PurplenGold all get access to the email accounts of Thai hookers, who are an education in themselves and who, given the nature of their jobs and lifestyle, are not representative of Thai women as a whole. Some guys cannot be warned and they get into self destructive modes. This Brtiish guy was one of them. He got in over his head and drowned. Thailand is full of losers like him.
Most of the world's women are ok. Most of us here, given the nature of this site, end up shopping in the wrong places. No wonder you guys biach so much and are so embittered.
Anyone here ever check out the AW in prison sites? Now they are really fun sites and Domino likes to visit them on occasion. He wonders how so many women with such wholesome hobbies and selfless ambitions can end up doing 10 to life and he is more than happy to send on money to them to get them by until the day when they regain their freedom when they can spend happy days horse riding on the beach, going for quiet romantic walks in the woods or making love with Domino in front of a log fire; women in jail do not worry about how old you are or even what sex you are. Domnino finds all of that funny. But not half as funny as the guys who think they will find love in such places. Horses for courses.
Military and law enforcement personnel are often the victims of female on male domestic violence because it can be a career killer for the man if he retaliates. Apparently, it doesn't bode well for soldiers and cops to disclose the fact that their wives are sharing out ass-whippings at home. How many people would trust a guy to protect them when he can't protect himself from his wife?
Often domestic violence in these professions comes to light too late for both genders. The teacher got tired of his wife using mental and possibly physical ku fung on his ass, he loss it and made a really bad split second decision and his efforts to mitigate the consequences were even worst. However, the most timid of creatures will attack if cornered with enough provocation. In unfortunate circumstances tormentors sometimes find themselves in zip lock freezer bags or as the main ingredient in fried rice.
I'm going to repeat myself again, if you want to keep in good terms with the woman you meet abroad, my suggestion is to live in her country. It might be an adjustment but it is doable. This is not recommended for those of us who have careers and family in the US. You will really have to evaluate what is important to you and then make a decision. Its not easy but life is short, you might as well make the most out of it. Years ago, I ran into a woman who I was certain was the lady of my dreams, and she felt the same way about me, I made the foolish mistake of not spending more time with her in her home country and getting to know her better. And this was while I was in between jobs so I had some time. I flew back to her home city in central Europe last year, and got the sad news that she died in a car accident. If you find that special lady, don't make my mistake of hesitating, don't let her go at all.
CBGB,
Your point cannot be emphasized too many times, it is one that bears repeating. Everytime I see some guy out shopping with a hot foreign spinner I can't help but wonder how long he will last before his luck runs out. A good foreign woman is a dish best enjoyed in the country of her origin. Importing delicate fruit to different climates often produces undesirable changes in the flavor.
I have known a few cases where guys have gotten lucky and the women continue to adore them after reaching the Promised Land. However, not surprisingly these women are cute but they are not spinners with smoking hot bodies. These average women tend to be contented with their husbands and are less likely to try and trade up to a better economic benefits package. On the other hand, the Play Boy centerfold material soon begins to hear whispers that she can do much better.
I agree that one should not let that special woman go once you've found her, such women are an endangered species which is all the more reason why you should never remove them from their natural habitat.
I remember a Polish girl I met in Europe last year, who told me that she lived in Atlantic City for a couple of years. She talked about how she loved going to Chilis and eating a big slab of baby back ribs, and getting a big dessert. She said she gained about 25lbs while she was there. Honestly, if you a bring a woman back home, you might deal with something like this, there are other cases if the woman is particularly attractive or exotic, she will get whispers from people to "play the market", in other words look for a better guy with more money and better looks. I have met a lot of women abroad who immediately warmed up to me for simple fact I was American, I even caught one talking to her friend that she was going to seduce me so that I would take her home. The best way to weed out these women is to simply be yourself, don't be tempted to show off or act like a big shot, see how the locals approach the women, and try not to do anything too different that will make you stick out too much. The best path is to live with her in her home country. I have known quite a few people who have done this, it takes a lot of work to be able to live in another country. There are a lot of places abroad that are actually quite pleasant, I'm living in one such place right now. There are quite a few places in Europe and even Asia that are very liveable, where there are a lot of women.
Hey there guys,
Speaking of weight gain, my wife has put on about 12 pounds since she got here back in February. It's true, in their own country, they tend to be much slimmer. It's not the womans' fault, it's the difference between what they eat over there and what we eat here.
I told her that I don't want her porking out any more. Guess what she said? "OK, I'll try watch what I eat", she even offered to start coming to the gym with me more often and has also taken up swimming lessons.
A+ for attitude!
Still, 12 pounds in 5 months.... I'm starting to worry.
Rock
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050729/od_uk_nm/oukoe_odd_worldcup_brothel[/url]
Interesting thread. But no need for AW bashing. I have met some huge and truly revolting behemoths here in Asia, mostly Europeans and Asians and not just Arab serving hookers in Bangkok. It comes down to diet AND exercise AND lifestyle. Though Japanese are slimmer than Americans, many of them are grossly unfit and have much more fat than muscle.
I have fucked many Thai hookers, including bar girls between 20 and 25 years old. The interesting thing about these rice farmer daughters, from the perspective of this thread, is the spare type they carry, not from having babies but from doing no exercise except bonking. They are picked up at their bar, driven or walked to a nearby hotel, bonk, bonk, bon and motor bike taxi back to their pad. So muscle turns to fat very quickly.
If you read my recent Pattaya reports, you will see I was pounding the beach front pavements Rocky like in the early hours. Plenty of nice, fit, clean living (:)) Thai babes out then but the hookers still about were sleepy/sleeping it off. The hooker lifestyle does not lend itself to a fit mind in a fit body.
Rural Americans seem to be much bigger than urbanites, New Yorkers etc as they do no exercise, except bonking and eating quarter pounders. New Yorkers at least walk to the subway.
My advice, for what it is worth, is to find a woman who shares your hobbies (not p4p bonking) and take it from there.
I obtained this information from a new Dorling Kindersley Atlas I recently purchased. It contained some interesting statistics on every country of the world. One statistic caught my eye: calorie consumption per capita. In other words, how many calories does the average person consume in different countries. Here is short list of how some of the countries ranked:
Calorie consumption per capita.
United States: 3772 (kilocalories)
Ireland: 3613
France: 3591
Israel: 3562
Germany: 3451
Turkey: 3416
Poland: 3376
Spain: 3352
United Kingdom: 3334
Switzerland: 3293
Finland: 3227
United Arab Emirates: 3192
Argentina: 3181
Australia: 3176
Canada: 3174
Mexico: 3165
Sweden: 3109
Czech Republic: 3104
South Korea: 3093
China: 3029
Brazil: 2985
Algeria: 2944
Russia: 2917
Iran: 2913
Indonesia: 2902
Belize: 2888
South Africa: 2886
Saudi Arabia: 2875
Ukraine: 2871
Latvia: 2855
Nigeria: 2850
Japan: 2762
Vietnam: 2583
Cuba: 2564
Panama: 2488
Pakistan 2452
Bahamas: 2443
Venezuela: 2256
Kenya: 1965
Afghanistan: 1523
Congo, Dem. Rep.: 1514
Yes, the good old USA is the fattest country in the world in terms of calories consumed. It also doesn't help that those in the USA probably exercise less than in any other country on average. Of course their are exceptions to this rule like the American WSG stud members who are always totally buff and have a six pack. To be fair, life is rougher on women then men when it comes to carrying a few extra pounds. Men can be little heavy and the guy still looks fine. For a women, ten extra pounds can look really bad.
Stay cool guys,
NB
The source of caloric intake is another factor you should look at. A few decades ago in the 1970's Americans consumed more fat and protein, while consuming less refined sugar and carbohydrates. Have you ever looked at television and movie footage from the era? People looked really slim back then. These days in the US, the diet consists more of sugar and carbohydrates. People eat a lot more fast food in bigger portions, which consist of a large amount of sugar and carbohydrates(notice the supersized soda and fries???). The French, while I am not too fond of them, tend to eat more fat and only a fraction of the sugar of the average American, it happens to be one of the slimmest industrialized countries. Britain has followed the US in increasing the amount of sugar and carbohydrates, even though the average Briton consumes less calories than his counterpart across the channel, Britain is a very fat country.
Britain is not a country at all. The [b]United Kingdom [/b](of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is a country. England + Scotland + Wales = Britain. Add in some islands and you get Great Britain. England isn't a country. Scotland isn't a country. Wales isn't a country. Great Britain isn't a country.
American women and British women are both fat but British women have bad teeth on top of that. On the other hand, American men are ridiculously fat too, and British men have bad teeth as well. And yes, I have lived in both the US and Britain.
An average size middle-age male needs roughly 2400 calories so I don't really believe those numbers for country averages.
I did a google search under "calories daily requirement" and found this (BMR = basal metabolic rate):
"The Harris-Benedict Equation for calculating calorie needs.
Use the appropriate formula for men or women.
Men: BMR = 66 + (13.7 x W) + (5 x H) - (6.8 x Age) = Daily calories required
Women: BMR = 665 + (9.6 x W) + (1.8 x H) - (4.7 x Age) = Daily calories needs
Where:
W = weight in Kgs Convert body weight here!
H = Height in cms ( 1 foot = 12 inches, 1 inch = 2.54 cms)
Age = Years
An example for a 30 year old women weighing 80 (176 pounds) Kgs and 5 foot 6 inches tall would be..
665 + (9.6 x 80) + (1.8 x 168) - (4.7 x 30)
665 + 768 + 302 - 141 = 1594 calories per day!
The values in the above equation are based on averages within the population. Therefore the problem with this equation is it doesn't take into account the amount of lean body weight a person may have. For this reason people who are very muscular or those who are obese may not obtain a very accurate calculation of BMR. Muscular individuals may need more calories than the formula suggests and, very overweight people may need less than the calories needs from the calculation.
The above equation calculates calorie needs for the BMR, you still need to work out calorie requirements for the day including any activities.
Multiply your BMR by an activity factor which more closely suits your lifestyle
Sedentary - none or very little exercise = BMR X 1.2
Light activity for average of 2 days/week = BMR X 1.375
Moderate activity level exercising 4 days/week = BMR X 1.5
High activity levels exercise & sports more than 6 days/week = BMR X 1.7
Higher activity levels = up to 2 x BMR"
If women have it rougher than men, then why is it that the way men carry fat is more a health risk than the way women carry fat? Men tend to accumulate fat around their middles more so than women, who tend to carry it more around their lower body (the area around the hips and thighs). A recent medical study pointed this out and concluded that from the accumulation of fat and all the health risks associated with it, MEN have a higher risk of fatality from carrying fat than women do. So, sorry, I don't buy into it that women have it rougher than men. Maybe so when it comes to attracting a mate if they have a lot of fat, but that's not a health-related issue.
[QUOTE=Rock Dog]
I told her that I don't want her porking out any more.
[/QUOTE]
Rock,
I sure hope that you asked her nicely. Bad things have been know to happen to guys in this country after bringing a woman's widening ass to her attention. The last thing you need to happen now is for some American orca to explain to her that she really doesn't need to take your shit, and that she can in fact get as fat as she damn well pleases and if you don't like it then she can take half of everything if not more.
Sincerely,
CM
CM, I thought the same thing, but I didn't wanna rain on RD's parade by acting like a warning sound on a submarine during DEFCON1. RD, not to be the bearer of bad news but she IS gonna run into the type of women CM described. Whether or not she shrugs off the attempts by the agents of Loki to poison her mind and takes your advice is up to her. I just hope that your euphoria at meeting the woman of your dreams hasn't clouded your judgement.
I agree with you that living with the girl in her country gives you the best chance possible. That being said, all the sterotyles about the hot asian or latin girl make make a rude awakening call once your living with her. However, at least you are the greater prize and she may think twice before creating problems in the relationship. It also depends on the type of girl you pick. The playboy stunner is always going to be a problem. Living with a cute/goodlooking girl in her country I think gives you the best chance.
The problem as it appears to me seems to stem from a variety of sources.
First, AW have seriously screwed up expectations. Many think they can bring nothing to the party, but for the price of admission to her pxssy, she has a right to a life.
Second, the media pursues a major sterotype. Once girl recently told me that she ended our relationship from a while ago because she read the book "He's not that into you." The problem with that book, isn't that it discern's mens behavior when they are only warm and not hot for a girl. The problem is that women are taught that men should be chasing them and available for every whim. The Mr. Big from Sex in the City is the model of man the women are taught to look for. Unfortunately, Mr. Big is a Big Pussy and that isn't a man at all. the fact I wasn't catering to her ever whim or chasing her enough. I know it's laughable but seriously true. This girl has seriously screwed up expectations that she got from a book. Other girls have the same seriously screwed up expectations they get from the media, or shows like Sex in the City.
Third, no man should ever get married to an AW without first at least having a serious relationship with a woman from another country. Asian and Latin girls (whichever your preference) who are not from this country, will at least give you an idea how you deserve to be treated. AW just don't have a clue.
Fourth, the marriage laws in this country are designed to punish the spouse (usually the man) who makes more money. It's like having a business partnership, where I contribute all the money and if the business goes under I take all the loss and pay my partner. Make sense? No. It actually creates an no lose incentive for the woman most of the time, to simply pack up take half and have a nice income of child support and/or alimony. There's no incentive to stay and make it work. At least the guy thinks twice before running off with the younger woman, that if leaves the wife, its going to include alimony and child support. The man has the incentive to stay and the woman has no incentive to stay. Screwed up to say the least.
Fifth, AW flock to guys and judge men by the amount of success they have. The more success you have- the more AW will chase you. This, I'm sure, is the same in whatever country you are in. However, the difference I've noticed is that AW think they have a right to your success and deserve to be handed like on a silver platter for admission to her pxuussy. It's this unreasonable expectation that is the sinister problem.
This is a real problem since 60% of the marriages end in divorce and can trigger a huge economic hardship for the guy. What do you do?
I never get serious with an AW. Many complain that I'm not romantic for not chasing their ass enough. I have no problem once the complaints start to cut them loose. I'm romantic to the women who deserve it- which in my experience has been foreign women who've already become accustomed to living in the USA. Why? Well, it seems to me to be the best of all worlds unless I'm going to live in her country with her. Foreign women can get very americanized or only modestly americanized and it's pretty easy to tell if you keep you eyes open. They generally know how to act like women better and treat their men FAR FAR better than AW. If I ever marry again, I'll get a prenup to at least even the playing field and not give her an incentive to leave. She will at least think twice that she's not gonna get my house or alimony if she takes off. If I have another kid- I have no problem paying child support since the money is really for the kid. At least, she will not have an economic advantage to leave me.
Why not AW. Date a girl from another country like brazil for a year, and you'll have your answer,. Foreign women have their problems and there is always the risk of oversterotyping (they are not all sex goddesses by any stretch of the imagination and better to plan on dealing with a demanding and dependent girl). However, the level of respect and treatment is much higher and it's worth it to me. I'll take a foreign woman who can be demanding of my time with her over an AW who has expectations that life will be handed to her on a silver platter any day.
Ive found alot of AW to be very needy and insecure. The ones in their 30s are especially dangerous. Their biological clock make then hunt for a husband and to start popping out babies, and that is their focus. I try to follow the bullshit rule. I don't bring bullshit to the relationship and cut ANY woman loose the minute she pulls bullshit with me. I'll date and bang AW but don't get serious with them- at all. I try to screen out the Foreign girls by seeing how materialistic they are. Some foreign girls have been worst that AW in some ways, but I have met several potential keepers. This approach has worked so far for me.
Australian women have pretty good teeth if I may say so.
Rock Dog is a Canadian from Manitoba, and not an American, I think. Yes or no, Rock Dog? And if so, why post all this shit about your wife in the AW forum? And what country did you get her from? And was she a hooker?
Dickhead,
Are there any marriageable Argentine hookers in Buenos Aires besides Maria?
María is not marriageable because she is extremely stubborn, and is getting fat. If I were going to get married again, which I am not, and if I were going to marry a hooker, which I am not, and if I would marry a woman with children, which I would not, I might marry Rosa María now that she has allegedly quit smoking. Very smart (so is María for that matter), only one kid, no tattoos (María doesn't have any either), and just a lot of fun to be around. But why buy a cow when milk is so cheap?
I'd rather marry an Argentinean prostitute than an American woman, that's for sure. See? The post is on topic.
Something that doesn't seem to have gotten any mention here is the biggest ***** weapon of all: "Sexual Harassment". Now, I'm mostly a leftist, but I have to say that my side really screwed up society on this one.
A. A very good friend of mine just got fired for the above mentioned. His purported "victim" is both a major perpetrator of, and comfortable recipient of all kinds of behavior that could theoretically be actionable. The actual problem in this case (my personal opinion) religions intolerance. Girl is a (highly hypocritical) member of an extremely intolerant fundamentalist christian sect. After a (failed) attempt to prostheltize my friend, which resulted in a discussion of his beliefs (pagan, new agey type), she decided to take him out, but you can't fire someone for their religious beliefs. Fortunately society has seen fit to give AW the ultimate multi-purpose ***** weapon.
B. I also was the recipient of a Sex Harassment "witch hunt" about 10 years ago. Hot little MILF and I happily flirted and played "grab ass" at work. Everything was just fine until friends of the little redneck she was married to witnessed us playing around. He confronted her, and suddenly, I became the "evil predator", who she agreed to get rid of, or he was going to make her quit her job. So she called the company hotline (and "twisted" a lot of mostly innocent behavior), but quit when she found out that they were going to investigate the situation, and not just fire me on her word. Unfortunately, I still had to endure the witch hunt, spending 2 hours with an interrogator, and the humiliation of seeing friends and co-workers dragged in as witnesses. Following all of that, I was COMPLETELY EXONERATED, and found to be without blame, but still, I was cautioned that should any woman make any complaint about my behavior, that I would be fired immediately-in light of the fact that I had been found "innocent", that is pretty interesting.
C. I have a problem with the whole concept. Imagine this theoretical situation. Brad Pitt commits action X (grabs her ass, makes a suggestive remark whatever)-what is woman's reaction? Most likely favorable. Drew Carey commits identical action X, and what happens-negative reaction, followed by possible persecution for sexual harasment if action took place in the workplace. In other words, Drew is exposed to punative action not because of his action (action X was fine after all coming from Brad), but because of what Drew is-a guy who is not considered to be sexy (by most women). In other words, to quote Chris Rock "Sexual Harassment ain't nothing but an ugly guy trying to get some pussy!"
4. I suspect that all this "crying wolf" will someday take away from REAL sexual harassment-some derivative of a woman being deprived of a job because of her refusal to sleep with someone.
That is all
Bart9K
I heard the greatest story about Sexual Harassment. A friend of a friend is faculty at a major University. Appearently a few years ago, there was a gigantic, cross departmental meeting on the topic of...you guessed it. Of course, the freaky feminist types were all up railing..."This is terrible, this is horrible, the whole world is going to end" etc. After a protracted period of this, a little old female professor (she was EE or maybe Greek, probably taught like sociology), and said in heavily accented English: "Only problem with Sex Harassment here at University is that it is of POOR QUALITY and INSUFFICIENT QUANTITY". The whole place (except for the feminists) lost it.
DH,
What you said is correct. However, in none of my posts at any time have I claimed to be something that I am not. Come up to Canada sometime and you'll see that we have a great deal in common. We look the same, dress the same and talk the same.
What's more, everything I've ever read in this forum applies quite well to many of the women here. Maybe I'm not an American, but I am a north american. Since there's no forum called "canadian women", I choose to share my thoughts here.
I am sure that many of the guys here can relate to my situtation.... especially how I went overseas to get a decent girl since the women here at home generally suck.
To answer your last questions, I met my wife in Africa last year.... and no she is (and was) most definitely NOT a hooker.
I hope this post serves to clear up any possible misunderstandings you might have had.
Rock
Thanks, RD. Cleared everything up except what country your wife is from. But it doesn't really matter, I guess.
You guys do talk abooooot the same.
RD, DH,
Come on now, everyone knows that folks from Canada are exactly like Americans, except that they speak English, and can get decent, free health care, and tend not to be universally reviled.
Hail to the red, white and... Maple leafed!
Regards,
Sporadic (American but hockey fan)
I one time talked to a women from Eastern Europe who said she like guys with shaved heads or just bald. Something that is for sure with a lot of US women is that they like men with a full head of hair. Some guys spend as much as 10K for an operation to get more hair or spend several hundred dollars a year on medication to grow more hair. Women abroad will often have a perspective that is different from those in North America, it is sometime refreshing to see something that is one woman's garbage is another's treasure. Traveling abroad is good.
Dickhead, I would have rather married a Central European prostitute than a regular American woman.
With all due respect, CB, my experience is quite different. I found from the moment I shaved my head many years ago that I got far more attention from AW than I did before, and that's continued to be true. Perhaps that's related to the "bad boy" fetish many have.
As a friend used to say, it's clearly seen to be a solar panel for a sex machine. :)
I remember being at a party a couple of months ago, when I was introduced to a woman that I fancied a bit. The three of us were chatting for a few minutes when all of a sudden (after quite a bit of staring on her part at my shaven head) she asked if she could feel my head. I said: "Go ahead, you KNOW you wanna touch it". That got a good laugh out of her. End result, I found out she had two rugrats and was in a relationship that seemed more complicated than the U.S tax laws. I quietly slid outta there....
[QUOTE=Dickhead]Britain is not a country at all. The [b]United Kingdom [/b](of Great Britain and Northern Ireland) is a country. England + Scotland + Wales = Britain. Add in some islands and you get Great Britain. England isn't a country. Scotland isn't a country. Wales isn't a country. Great Britain isn't a country.[/QUOTE]What are Scotland, Wales, and England? In the world cup, England has played Argentina, Italy, Nigeria. Scotland has played Uruguay, Sweden, Morocco. Wales has played Brazil, Hungary, Mexico. The opposing teams all appear to be countries. If Scotland, Wales, and England are not countries, what are they?
A few years ago when I was in the States, there was a moment when my hair started to thin, and it made a very large dent in my social life. Some women that I met at work who were initially interested in me noticed it and it definitely affected my rapport with them. One them went up to me and told me "You look different", and they were referring to the thinning on top of my head. I took some medication and it eventually came back. I haven't had this problem since moving down under, maybe its the more relaxed lifestyle that's present here. Stress seems to be a major factor in hair loss. The one thing I have noticed about visiting places abroad is that women don't quiz you about what you do for a living, which is a common practice in the US. This is quite evident even in some very well developed countries.
Now I don't cut AW's a whole lot of slack, but it has been my experience that some degree of hair loss (I have a moderate "widow's peak" going) is not a big deal to them, as long as it isn't styled into a way which the man "can't pull off" any more (example, I used to know a guy who used a dork knob to try and cover his rapidly increasing bald spot). I have heard girls say that they think it looks very masculine and they have all heard that it is a sign of high testosterone.
In 1999, a very bald Sean Connery was voted "Sexiest Man Alive". In the mid-late nineties, a very bald Terry O'Quinn's character was returned to the television show "Millenium" (a Chris Carter Production), to "increase female viewership. Then we have Bruce Willis, who hasn't had a full head of hair since he was a nobody bartender.
Like I said, no big deal. Now my beer gut on the other hand is an "unforgiveable sin".
Women in the USA are no different than Euro or Latin women in that all love guys with shaven heads. This is absolutely true. I'm speaking from experience. I have worn my hair several different ways, in the end women really go for that shaven head.
I have to mention Canadian women, except for those in Quebec, are HORRIBLE, with capital H. I'm also including British women, I was in the airport in Vancouver, saw a family of fat people, I could have sworn they were Americans, but the father pulled a passport which said United Kingdom. I have seen some fat women in Australia, but not the behemoths found in the United Kingdom.
CBGB,
The reason why women from Quebec tend to look nicer is because they are mainly of French european descent. Another, equally important, factor is that they generally put more effort into maintaining their personal appearance.
Anywhere else in Canada and you can't tell the difference. You can walk into a Burger King and you'll see big women eating their Supersize burger and fries. However, they don't want to get too fat, so they wash it all down with a diet coke.
Rock
Australian women are of the same European background as English speaking Canadians, but as a whole Australian women are better looking than most English speaking Canadian and American women. Sure there are some dogs, but I find it easy to find fuckable women in Ozzie, I would say 1 out of 3 Australian women that I see on the streets of Sydney are an 8 or better. I looked around outside of Montreal, and some of the women were horrific. Vancouver even had a lot of nasty looking women. Other factors are at work, Australia gets no snow, except in some mountain regions in Victoria, they are as a whole active in sports and fitness. Australia is also far less polluted than North America, it has a secure socialist system that provides a healthy normal life for all of its citizens.
What do you guys think?
'Worthless' gifts get the good girls
13:21 27 July 2005
NewScientist.com news service
Anna Gosline
Men who spend big money wining and dining their dates are not frittering away hard-earned cash. According to a pair of UK researchers, they are merely employing the best strategy for getting the girl without being taken for granted.
Using mathematical modelling, Peter Sozou and Robert Seymour at University College London, UK, found that wooing girls with costly, but essentially worthless gifts – such as theatre tickets or expensive dinners out – is a winning courtship strategy for both sexes.
Females can assess how serious or committed a male plans to be and males can ensure they are not just seducing 'gold-diggers' – girls who take valuable presents with no intention of accepting subsequent dates.
Sozou came about the idea after reading about a man in his local newspaper. The man had been paying the rent of a woman he considered was his girlfriend – he was giving her a valuable gift. But she had been heartlessly manipulating him, dating another man on the sly while accepting money from her unwitting sugar daddy.
"It spurred me onto thinking that if he had just been buying her expensive dinners, and not paying her rent, she wouldn’t have strung him along so much," says Sozou.
Dating and mating
So he and Seymour built a model based on a series of dating decisions. In the model males had to decide what kind of gift to offer females – valuable, extravagant or cheap – based on how attractive he finds her. The females had to either accept or decline the gift and then decide whether to mate with the gift-giver – a decision also weighted on the 'attractiveness' of their prospective partner.
When they measured the different outcomes of all the steps, they found the best solution for the males was to give extravagant, but intrinsically value-free gifts the vast majority of the time, while giving gifts of material value very occasionally.
The model showed that if males gave valuable gifts too often, the females would start to exploit them: the males have no clue as to the females’ real intentions in the model. Put simply, the females just take the diamonds and run. But when the gifts are worthless, an uninterested female has little incentive to accept, gaining no return on what could be just turn into the simple waste of an evening. Only girls who are serious would bother to go the distance.
Worthless balls
Sozou and Seymour believe their conclusions about people find support in the actions of animals, such as the dance fly. Males of this species give worthless cotton balls to entice partners into mating – and they work – although other scientists interpret this as male trickery.
Alison Lenton, a social psychologist at the University of Edinburgh, UK, questions some of the model’s assumptions, however. For example, one assumption is that females obtain a negative outcome for accepting an unattractive, though committed, male. Women have been shown to prioritise traits associated with good parental care above physical attractiveness, she says.
The model also fails to take the potential effects of cheating females into account. “Some female birds raise their chicks with a 'nice' male and engage in short-term copulations with an attractive male - there is similar evidence among humans. In this way, females may get the best of both worlds.”
And what is more, says Lenton, psychologists have found that experiential purchases – like theatre tickets – make people more happy in the long run than material purchases. "I do not necessarily agree that theatre tickets are 'worthless'," she says.
Journal reference: Proceedings of the Royal Society B (DOI: 10.1098/rspb.2005.3152)
I think that article was interesting, but I think that in the beginning, if the woman DOESN'T have enough interest in you, it ain't gonna work PERIOD. IF she has enough interest level in the beginning that would make her decide to keep you around, then the gifts (in moderation) would work. If she has LESS THAN a practical amount of interest level in you and you give her gifts ANYWAY, then she's just biding her time with you until a more interesting candidate comes along.
i have no way of knowing if this is true, but i read on a rumor mill site, that the wsg had been busted and secretly taken over by le and international le agencies too. they basically have everyone's ip and are running a huge sting operation. this supposedly happened during the time it was shut down for a few weeks then brought back up under a different host, server and location?!?!?
it does make sense if you think about it. can anyone substantiate this? after all, there is a lot of shit on this forum from endless information to people having sex with **** girls, to hiv infected mongers going bareback, to groups and individuals promoting prostitution, which is illegal in any capacity. simply referring another to prostitute is in violation under many states law's under the "aiding prostitution" statutes. these are very vague in their orientation, but could be interpreted as aiding prostitution, by what goes on in these forums. not to mention posting photos of innocent people and indicating they are prostitutes. this is grounds for huge slanderous , liabel, damages suits at the very least. once a suit is filed on behalf of the photos taken, then le can access your information in a heartbeat. i know jackson keeps ips, and states he would never give them up, but trust me, if le wants your ip from posting here............they already have it.
i ask this questions out of concern only. i will try and locate the rumor mill site that had the postings about this.
Tang,
That sounds way too paranoid to me. Even if it was true, the defense lawyers would be having a field day!
More likely the rumor itself was initiated by a competing website, or by one of the many losers who has been banned from this one.
Rock
... besides, there would be issues such as extradition and other related stuff that wouldn't be worth a prosecutor's time for such "small" crimes...
This post is a damn good read. It should be called "The Men's Bible":
[url]http://www.the-niceguy.com/forum//index.php?showtopic=5425&st=0[/url]
men as beasts of burden
marty nemko
there are five widows for every widower.
kevin, 37, is a computer programmer, making $80,000 a year, $48,000 after taxes. his wife, lisa, stays home to take care of their two-year old. she is pregnant with another child, and eager for them to buy a home. kevin doesn’t like being a programmer, but fears that a career change will mean a salary cut.
i asked kevin, “is owning a home important to you?” he replied, “it’s very important to lisa.” i asked him how he felt about having the second child. he sighed, “okay, but lisa really wants it.”
i asked, “when you first called me, you said you feel the stress is killing you. should you be shouldering all the family’s financial responsibilities?” he pursed his lips: “lisa reminds me that before we got married, i agreed to have two kids. she says, and i guess i agree, that to bring our kids up right and maintain a home is a full-time job. and she doesn’t have my earning capacity.” kevin rubbed his head.
over the past 17 years, i have been career coach to 1,500 middle and upper class women and to 500 middle-to-upper class men. because of our relationships’ confidentiality, i have learned much about what women really think on a number of issues.
most surprising to me, is that at least half of the women, including many graduates of elite colleges, either don’t want an income-earning job or will only work part-time in an unusually pleasant job.
a recent new york times article suggests that my clients are not an anomaly. it reported that the number of stay-at-home moms has increased 13 percent in less than a decade, and among working women, 2/3 work part-time. this is true even of graduates of prestigious colleges, women who were bestowed a fiercely competed-for slot at an elite college on the assumption they would use that coveted degree to make a big difference in the world.
few of those women’s application essays indicated they planned to be housewives. yet among stanford’s class of ’81, in just their first decade after graduation, 57 percent of mothers spent at least a year at home full-time. one in four stayed home full-time for three or more years. a survey of the women from the harvard business school classes of 1981, 1985, and 1991 found that only 38 percent of all women—even if childless--were working full time. and beyond the elite colleges, among white men, 95% of all mbas in the u.s. work full time, while the number for white women was just 67 percent.
and “full-time” doesn’t mean the same for men and women. among my 1,500 female clients and many friends, very few are willing to sacrifice work/life balance to work the 60+ hours a week it normally takes to rise to the top of a profession.
yet women’s groups complain that women are “underrepresented” in the power professions: senior executives, professors, etc., because of a glass ceiling they claim is erected by men.
of course, there are many ambitious, achieving women who are men’s equals or superiors. but many of my female clients and friends prefer the life of a housewife, perhaps augmented by a pleasant little part-time job, even if it means their husband, whom they claim to love, must work long, hard hours on jobs few women would consider. for example, the vast majority of people who work in iron foundries, coalmines, and other clanging, polluted environments are men. according to the united states bureau of labor statistics, 92 percent of workplace deaths occur to men.
dan, a client of mine (name changed) avoided breathing carcinogenic air, but his life is still at risk. he has two masters degrees in counseling, but in the big city, where it seems there’s a therapist under every rock, hasn’t been able to land a job as a counselor. he has a few private clients, which in total earn him $6,000 a year. he adds $8,000 as a mock patient in a medical school, and at night, dan, 54, moonlights as a waiter at a large restaurant. he says, “it’s almost ¼ mile from the kitchen to the farthest table, so when i get home at one in the morning, i’m exhausted. but i’m still so wired, i need a couple of glasses of wine to get to sleep. if i’m lucky, i get five hours of sleep before i have to get up again.”
dan’s wife denise, a cornell graduate, is 47 and says she’s a musician. but in their years together, her net income has averaged just $800 a year. when dan encourages denise to get a job that pays, she objects:“ but i love being a musician. i’m trying to make a living at it.” he keeps urging her to get a paying job, but after a while, he gives up. he can’t make her get a job.
meanwhile, dan continues to drag himself through life like an ox yoked to a plow, a beast of burden. “i don’t know how long i can keep this up.” statistically, he’s right. medical science is unequivocal that stress and overwork kills. no doubt, that contributes to their being five widows for every widower.
to be fair, many men prefer their wives to stay home, but often, the impetus comes from the woman. many women use dubious arguments to convince their husbands that they should have, at most, a part-time job:
it’s better for the children. yes, on average, kids with a stay-at-home-mom do somewhat better, but that is largely because couples that can afford to have mom staying at home are, on average, from a higher socioeconomic class, which confers many other benefits on the child.
a number of studies indicate that being a working mom doesn't hurt and may even help the child. for example, the most recent study (july 2003) caring and counting: the impact of mothers' employment on family relationships by tracey reynolds, claire callender and rosalind edwards, reports, "...the mother's work had a positive impact on their family relationships. the mother's employment provided skills and resources that meant they could meet their children's emotional, developmental and material needs better. their relationship with their partner was enhanced because they shared the financial burden of providing for their family and had more common interests." the book, ask the children, is based on in-depth interviews with 600 parents and more than 1,000 children in the third through twelfth grades from diverse backgrounds. it found that "having a working mother is not predictive of how children assess their mothers' parenting skills, based on a number of attributes strongly linked to children's healthy development and school success. these include 'being someone i can go to when i am upset' and 'knowing what is really going on in my life.'" this study's results were reported to the public in a cover story in working mother magazine called "hey moms, drop the guilt!" millions of children with working moms do just fine. what counts most is quality time: reasonably consistent, loving, limit-setting but not punitive parenting, even if it begins after the workday.
lest you think i haven’t practiced what i preach, my wife went back to work full-time, nine weeks after our daughter was born, and she turned out just fine: well-adjusted, voted ucla’s outstanding undergraduate student, whereafter she got a white house internship, after which she went to yale law school, is now a successful attorney and about to marry a wonderful guy.
and even if a child accrues some advantage from having a stay-at-home mom, that advantage is usually more than outweighed by the pressure added to the husband’s life and the lifestyle decrement that comes from the lack of a second income. one such decrement is that men who must earn all the family income are precluded from considering rewarding but not lucrative careers such as teaching, and most jobs in non-profits, the arts, journalism, etc.
adding to the unfairness, women, on average, are more motivated than their husbands to have children to begin with. the man is often pressured, subtly or not subtly, into parenthood, with all its added financial and time demands.
taking care of the kids and home is a full-time job. these women stretch homemaking into a full-time job with activities far less beneficial than a second income to the family and certainly to her husband’s health and quality of life: preparing home-cooked dinners most nights, sitting with other moms watching a playgroup when a babysitter could do that, etc.
being a homemaker is at least as stressful as being in the work world. these women point to their having to deal with a frequently crying baby or claim that being at home is a three-ring circus. but fact is, a significant percentage of many stay-at-home moms' days are spent on low-stress tasks such as supermarket shopping, playing with the baby, making dinner, and chatting with friends while baby is napping.
that life is much less stressful than most out-of-home jobs, which are filled with unpredictable commutes, ever increasing workloads because of the relentless downsizing, bosses with unrealistic expectations, co-workers who don’t pull their weight, and tough tasks, which if not completed satisfactorily can result in criticism or even firing.
i don’t have your earning power. dr. warren farrell’s research debunks the flawed research that claims women earn 79 cents on the dollar. when controlled for hours on the job, performance evaluations, and years of experience, women earn $1.01 for every dollar men earn.
and the reason women have fewer years of experience is that they disproportionately elect to stay home with their children, or even if they work “full-time,” they work far fewer hours than their male counterparts so they can spend more time with their kids or on their avocations. many more women than men —full-time workers and not-- ensure they have time for yoga, get-togethers with friends, art class, gardening, and visits to the day spa. since 2000, despite the economic downturn, the number of spa visits nationwide, the vast majority of which are made by women, has doubled!
women don’t just spend on day spas. they’re, overall, the bigger spenders. yes, men buy more tools and technotoys but women, even when they contribute little or nothing to the family income, are the predominant spenders: clothing, jewelry, therapy, home redecorating of no interest to the man, etc. most shopaholics are women. every expenditure loads additional pressure onto the primary breadwinner, which is usually the husband.
most of my male clients have accepted their plight of having to work, work, work at unrewarding, even dangerous jobs. biology, parents, and society have programmed men to be the hunter, the provider, to keep their nose to the grindstone, no matter what. too many wives only encourage it. just today, a client of mine who earns more than $200,000 a year as a not-partner attorney at a major law firm, exclaimed, “if i don’t push now to make partner, my wife will kill me!”
usually, the wife won’t kill the husband, but often will divorce him, at least in part because “he wasn't a good provider.” and most courts reward her with custody of the child and a requirement that the father pay child support and/or alimony.
when i ask a male client to step back and think about it, many of them realize that their wives have tried—usually successfully--to subtly or not so subtly coerce them into being the primary or sole breadwinner, the beast of burden. those women make the above arguments, plus use manipulative techniques such as crying, guilt-tripping, screaming, avoiding the topic of getting a job, and forever promising to look for work but making feeble efforts.
meanwhile, many men live bleak lives: work 10+ hours, commute home, and drop into the couch exhausted. and their reward: an early grave. despite obesity being more prevalent among women, there are five widows for every widower. yet all we hear about is another fundraiser for breast cancer.
if a husband hasn't done so already, he should consider having an open discussion with his wife about work and money. for example:
“will buying a house or having another child put too much financial pressure on us?”
“if we decide to make those high-cost expenditures, do we want to put all the financial burden on one partner so the other can stay home to raise the child? or should it be divided more evenly?”
“should i refuse to work at an unrewarding high-stress or dangerous job?”
the elite colleges should issue the following exhortation to their students, male and female: "as you well know, the diploma you will receive from this institution will open the doors of influence: from medical research to non-profit directorship, from corporate leadership to stewardship of the arts. in accepting one of the precious few student seats at this institution, you tacitly accept the responsibility to society to make the most of that coveted degree. we encourage you to aim high, to use that degree to make the biggest difference you can for humankind. as important as being a good parent is, you don't need an elite degree to do that."
(i changed a few irrelevant details about my clients to protect their anonymity.)
Hmm... so I guess mongers can expect smoke, flash bang and tear gas grenades to come smashing through the windows at some inopportune moment, followed by a door breach as the SWAT team takes down the poor horny bastards in the midst of posting their irreverent memoirs of debauchery.
I didn't think that the Patriot Act covered middle-aged men with beer guts seeking sexual release on foreign shores. It just goes to show what happens when you don't pay attention to legislation being passed in this country.
[quote=gettingtang]i have no way of knowing if this is true, but i read on a rumor mill site, that the wsg had been busted and secretly taken over by le and international le agencies too. they basically have everyone's ip and are running a huge sting operation. this supposedly happened during the time it was shut down for a few weeks then brought back up under a different host, server and location?!?!?
it does make sense if you think about it. can anyone substantiate this? after all, there is a lot of shit on this forum from endless information to people having sex with **** girls, to hiv infected mongers going bareback, to groups and individuals promoting prostitution, which is illegal in any capacity. simply referring another to prostitute is in violation under many states law's under the "aiding prostitution" statutes. these are very vague in their orientation, but could be interpreted as aiding prostitution, by what goes on in these forums. not to mention posting photos of innocent people and indicating they are prostitutes. this is grounds for huge slanderous , liabel, damages suits at the very least. once a suit is filed on behalf of the photos taken, then le can access your information in a heartbeat. i know jackson keeps ips, and states he would never give them up, but trust me, if le wants your ip from posting here............they already have it.
i ask this questions out of concern only. i will try and locate the rumor mill site that had the postings about this.[/quote]
getting tang, very interesting stuff. it's funny, you've spent your last 25 posts arguing and basically telling us all what dumbasses we are and being caught in lies and contradictions each and every time, so what do you do? start a rumor about a rumor mill that says wsg has been taken over by le. as always, whenever you make a controversial post (see writing style recognition software for example) you conveniently forget the site or come up with some other bullshit for not providing it.
it's been obvious for a long time (ever since you watched the passion of the christ) that you are against mongering and prostitution in general. as i've said before, for someone like you, perhaps viewing sex review boards on a regular basis is probably not a good idea. perhaps your pastor or a christian brother can enlighten you in these areas. travis bickle "you talkin to me?"
i'll spend some time this evening trying to track down the site i read the post on. funny thing is, this message board had about 8 responses to this rumor. if i recall 2 or 3 of the responders said they were members of this forum.
i agree, le has better things to do then round up the "passive monger", however, there is more then that going on within these forums. this has nothing to do with some form of a mission on my behalf. i tell stupid fuck heads to use condoms and i'm a bad guy? ??? how is that? someday you too shall know someone close to you, to come down with a bad disease as a direct result of this hobby and i assure you, it will change your thought process on this matter. i just hate idiots that try and beat the system (hiv) based on chicken soup wives tales. they act as if the virus knows they are not gay or an iv drug user, therefore it knows better to infect them.
there are also poster on this forum, who have posted photos of their ex wife or girlfriend as a means for revenge. lots of mongers over the years promoting the idea of **** girls, lots of infected mongers shown to be having unprotected sex. these topics will get the attention of le.
and when le wants to bring down a big house of cards, you had better bet, they can and will use a technicality within the law to bring you to your knees. if nothing else to embarrass the hell out of you. when you read the sex offenders website and see all those 19 year old guys who have to register as a sex offender because they has a 16 or 17 year old girlfirend, you quickly realize, "technical law enforecemt" does happen.
aiding prostitution in any capacity, even subtle referrals is "technically" against the law in almost all states! this was my point.
One pertinent fact about the data that no one has pointed out is that the study population is comprised of UK women, not American (who per popular lore are maybe 75% as bad). It has been my experience that a goodly number of AW's will accept anything that you give them as "their due", and that they will look disdainfully upon you for utilizing your resources to provide them with something in a pathetic attempt to get some of their overpriced pussy.
Thanks for the article Chocha. I will send that (from it's original source of course) the next time that someone pressures me to settle down and "play by the rules": Get wife, make baby, work hard to make money to buy stuff.
By the way (completely off topic-all apologies profered), could anyone who has used jet lag remedies please PM me with your experiences. I'm particularly interested in melatonin. My last trip to Europe left me completely incapacitated for about 20 hours.
I used to get presents from my receptionist a few years back, she's a Hispanic American lady, not a complete AW but I used to wonder about her because she had a kid and no husband. Still the truth is that the vast majority of American women when you compare them to their counterparts in Europe or elsewhere are fat, ugly, obnoxious, shameless, greedy, loudmouth skanks. It did drive me nuts in the past when I traveled abroad and met gorgeous and kind hearted women with ease but then upon the returning home and only finding crummy women and putting up with a lot of shit. I did find a woman that I thought I could haved settled down with for the rest of my life, but I didn't realize it until after we parted ways, she passed away, and I'm never going to get the opportunity to see her again. Its been a really difficult loss.
"I'll spend some time this evening trying to track down the site I read the post on."
More bullshit from the bullshit specialist.
high rate of infidelity fueling rise in paternal discrepancy, researchers say.
updated: 7:32 p.m. et aug. 10, 2005
london - one in 25 fathers could unknowingly be raising another man’s child, british scientists said on thursday.
researchers at liverpool’s john moores university examined the findings of dozens of studies, published over the past 54 years, on cases of paternal discrepancy — where a man is proved not to be the biological father of his child.
the studies, most of them peer reviewed, came from countries as varied as the united states, finland, new zealand, south africa and mexico.
the findings of the studies varied dramatically — some concluded that only one man in 100 is not the father of his child while others put the figure as high as 30 percent.
the liverpool researchers calculated the median figure at around 4 percent, suggesting that as many as one in 25 men worldwide is not the biological father of a child he believes to be his.
“the importance lies not so much in the figure itself but in the implications, given that as a society we are increasingly making our decisions on the basis of genetics,” said one of the researchers, professor mark bellis.
“if, for example, someone knows that their father had a history of hereditary heart disease, they might be tempted to alter their own diet,” he told reuters.
“obviously they need to be making that decision on the basis of accurate information about who their father really is.”
bellis said that while mix-ups of semen during artificial insemination accounted for some cases of paternal discrepancy, the majority were due to a woman having sexual relationships outside marriage.
he said in britain, 20 percent of women in marriages or long-term relationships have had affairs, adding that the figures for other developed countries was similar.
around a third of pregnancies in britain are unplanned, increasing the risk of paternal discrepancy.
writing in the british medical association’s journal of epidemiology and community health, the scientists called for further research in the area.
“(we) cannot simply ignore this difficult issue,” they said.
copyright 2005 reuters limited
[QUOTE=Dickhead]"I'll spend some time this evening trying to track down the site I read the post on."
More bullshit from the bullshit specialist.[/QUOTE]
Dickhead, If he were a "bullshit specialist" as least he'd be convincing. I think, rather, he's just full of #@%.
Travis
He's a faggot working for some American bi*tches. One point I can agree with Travis on is Asian women, I don't trust those slant eyes at all. They're all looking for a Western man with money and are very aggressive golddiggers. I prefer good European women who are more honest than those scheming Asians.
[url]http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/08/11/teen.escort.death.ap/index.html[/url]
Some dude, not the Traveler, paid $600 for this piece of dead meat. This has never happened to Domino or Freeler. We shop right.
CBCG seems to have faggots on the brain.
What a shame the old dude over paid and then she died on him costing another $2000. Some companionship from an American woman cost him $2600 and a police investigation. I hope that the escort agency had the decency to refund his money. It's so hard getting good help these days.
That guy was definitely not a WSG member. No one on this board would drive up prices like that while being so indiscrete. ;)
Most of Western Europe, Australia, and Canada have passed legislation that keeps the criminal element out of the prostitution trade or to a minimum. In many of these places a woman working in a brothel has the same status as someone working in a fast food joint, not respectable, but at least legitimate and instead of being hounded by the law she is protected.
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]What a shame the old dude over paid and then she died on him costing another $2000. Some companionship from an American woman cost him $2600 and a police investigation. I hope that the escort agency had the decency to refund his money. It's so hard getting good help these days.
That guy was definitely not a WSG member. No one on this board would drive up prices like that while being so indiscrete. ;)[/QUOTE]
:):);)
Where is your heart? keep love in everything. I am stuck in Mindanao Philipines right now and they are bleeding me dry. They are having a feast and Domino is the prize pig they are roasting. So AW have plenty of comrades in arms. So far I am up for a house, a half a house and, I am sure, a few paternity suits. But hey, all we need is love.
Paternity suits! Domino don't tell me that you're screwing the skanks in Mindanao skinless? What is all this talk about buying houses? Has your kind American Joe heart allowed you to be pussy whipped right into the Philipine real estate business? Remember that you're over there to get head not to lose your head. If you're not careful those Filipinas will make that $2600 deal for an AW look like a steal.
How many times must we repeat this mantra? Don't drive up prices! If you go around purchasing houses for these skanks you'll ruin the market for other mongers. First it will be a house, then a water buffalo, and next a rice paddy. Now get to haggling the lowest price for love on the market. And if you insist on going skinless make sure that you lubricate your peck peck with liberal amounts of coconut oil, according to Dickhead it's very effective as an propyhlaxis against AIDS. :p
P.S. I don't have a heart because AW ripped it out a long time ago. ;)
I have never trusted slant eyed Asian women, they're always working something out and trying to fuck you over. Hispanics and Eastern Europeans are the best, often far more honest and less decieving than Godless Asians.
CBGB,
Well it seems like they got pizza man. What a shame! :(
My Asian hooker babe believes in God and sends our(!) kids to a Catholic school for that reason. She is a good mother and she tells me I am a good man as I let her sleep a lot and I pay well. Last night, when she took my emply plastic bottles away to reuse, she lamented that I had no more water. Wasn't that nice? She also says I can fuck her any time as long as I pay.
There is a big festival on this week and she is devoting a lot of her time t helping her daughter in it. That IS sweet. Also, when I offered to give her 3 condoms last night in case she meets any potentiasl custimer, she indignantly refused. And when I put money into the Gideon Bible one night for her, she got very upset and TOLD me not to do so again. Godless? Not my little sweetie.
She needs maybe $500 to finish her house. Can any of you guys help? She is a deserving cause and a good woman playing a weak hand when she is not playing me:)
Domino,
Your posts have been getting kind of weird lately. What's up with that anyhow?
Rock
My posts have been weird for a long time. This place, Mindanao, is just particularly weird. And when your humble correspondent is surrounded by skanks who are trained in cultist shakedown tactics, he has to think fast. Does not mean he will win every time. This place is so hopeless it defies belief, It is funny seeing the Japanese and American mongers being led about.
It was not funny skank Christine telling Domino that he was the biggest pushover of a customer she ever had. Just shows: we are not as smart as we think we are.
Have no fear for Domino. He is on his way with some death squad goons to Zamboabga and thence to Sulu where the Abu Sayef Muslim dickheads hang out. Domino will be with the other crew: Christians and animists who have forsaken kidnapping for massive smuggling. They rule the roost in the non Muslim areas and Domino feels safe with them. He also hopes to see some big game hunting, as long as he is not the game. Headhunting sounds fun.
So my friends, if this is your thing, feel welcome. If not, feel AW.
Domino is also getting all kinds of weird business proposals, ranging from making gas masks out of coconuts to environment reconstruction. In the middle of a semi war zone. Oh well.
Anyway dudes: relax and be like Chocha MOnger and enjoy the circus. I know I am. See you in a few weeks.
May I recommend Ginkgo Biloba & Ginseng twice daily and complete one “hard” Sudoku every day.
It straightened me out!
Regards, Havanaman
Havanaman,
Can you tell me...... what's a sudoku?
Never heard of that before.
Rock
Rock Dog,
I’m going to assume your question is serious…
Sudoku is a kind of mathematical puzzle: brain teaser. Such puzzles are known to help brain function… In fact there is considerable research showing that mental “sharpness” is maintained into extreme old age in people who like doing puzzles, crosswords etc…
Anyway, I thought to myself that if I stay physically and mentally fit, I can monger till the day I die…
Regards, Havanaman
22 year old call girl on the cover of New York magazine for being NY's most highest priced hooker. Claims to make $2000 a trick working around Wall St. Probably does. She looks like a school librarian I wouldn't give $20 to for a BJ. She is talking to producers about having her own reality show.
Su Doku is the latest rage in crossword puzzles BTW.
I have spent some time reviewing the posts in the Filipina Advice thread. Some of the posts made me cringe as I read about old and young fools alike being separated from their hard earned cash. It's true that those Filipinas have the art of conning refined to the highest degree. Some of the guys' behavior in the chronicles was totally hilarious. "Gee Bubba, I don't understand what happened. She was a great LBFM in the Philippines and now that I have married her and brought her to the USA she has turned into a jealous greedy controlling conniving little ho bag."
Sinister forces seem to be at work causing otherwise reasonable men to marry destitute women and hookers; punters rush headlong into marriage ignoring the admonitions of friends to stop and think it over. Men who haggle over a price difference of a dollar suddenly find themselves signing affidavits of support for women with four kids. Stipends are being paid to bar girls as an incentive to give up hooking. Houses are given as gifts. North Americans and Europeans discover a degree of generosity which they never knew they had.
What is it that causes these men to suffer from temporary insanity? Is it love that causes them to propose marriage with its accompanying ruin within a week of meeting a foreign girl, or is just incredible horniness? I think that there are number of factors at play in this interesting phenomenon:
1. A man on parole from Sex Prison is a dangerous man (to himself). After seeing a high percentage of chunky androgenous women while on lock-down, he suddenly finds himself surrounded sexy sirens much like Odysseus on the island of Calypso and his ability to reason is somewhat diminished.
2. He has never had it so good, 8s,9s and 10s willingly give into to his lust. The drunkness caused by beautiful women sucking him, swallowing, and taking it up the ass while begging for more is too much for him. He does not want the fantasy to end, and he thinks that the best way to keep it going is to take one of those women back home with him.
3. He starts thinking, "Boy, if only the folks back home could see me fucking this hot piece of ass!" Then he takes his pride and joy back home so everyone can be jealous. What was that saying about pride being followed by a hard fall?
4. Limited pussy supply. Back in Sex Prison there is a limited supply of hot fuckable women. The parolee has not learned to think in terms of unlimited pussy and his drought mentality follows him overseas. He thinks that he needs to snatch and hoard the hot pussy through marriage or by means of a generous stipend instead of practicing a catch and release policy.
5. Poor knowledge of zoology. He operates under the false premise that a creature removed from its original habitat and transplanted to different one will continue to behave in the same manner. More often than not a woman's behavior is dictated by the culture, laws and circumstances in her society. Therefore, it does not matter whether she is from Asia, Eastern Europe or Latin America, her behavior will adapt to her new habitat where the laws favor women.
6. She is different from the others. He forgets that a woman will always be a woman. Sure she might be more beautiful than most but there will always be one far more lovelier. There are other tight wet pussies, perfect asses and pert breasts to be found. She will age, gain weight, nag and become jealous like all the others. However, she will do her best to market herself and stand out from the crowd in order to be the one chosen to live in better conditions abroad. These women are really good at being whatever you want them to be, if they have to do so to get what they want. It's feminine wiles at its best.
7. He under estimates the power of hard currency. Most guys just have a hard time seeing themselves as a walking ATM after spending a lifetime being a wage slave in their home country, therefore it's incomprehensible to them that a foreign woman might possibly see them as a cash cow.
8. Misinterpretation of natural affection for true love. Other cultures are often warmer, and permit more touching and closeness than in the USA. This can often be misleading, for example in Puerto Rico girls kiss their male friends on the cheek when greeting them. However, Puerto Rico is one of the worst places to get laid.
Chocha,
That was one quality post! It should be required reading for ANY guy before, during, and immediately after a mongering trip abroad.
Rock
CM: Good to see I am not alone in liking the classics. Odysseus survived the sirens remember. The journey is half the fun. I have no problem with the women. Good luck to them I say. Little Christine collected my empty plastic bottles which meant she never spent 20 plus pesos on a bottle of water.Christine's shoes I would be ashamed to put them in my garbage they are that worn. I admire her and women like her. Shit, what thePanthers could have done with raw material like that. They fuck to put rice in their kids' bellies and to send them to good schools. And they live in fear, as Christine does, that one day her motherly love will be ruined by her secret profession becoming common knowledge.
America is simply a fucked up country. Why should anyone act normnally there? [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050817/sc_nm/usa_wild_dc[/url]
Domino,
Thanks for that link. At first I was confused as to it's true relevence here until I read . . .
"Establishing Asian asses in North America might help prevent the extinction of these endangered species. They admitted the plan would be controversial but said it was a far better option than simply accepting the terminal decline of some of the world's most impressive species "
Thanks for thinking about us. I would visit that game reserve early and often.
-P
The one major thing that made the US better than the rest of the world seems to be quickly disappearing. Despite all the economic progress made, I think life in the US was better 20 to 30 years ago for the average person than it is today. A good percentage of people who were middle class in the last decade now live in poverty, in the next 20 years, most economists say at least 25 percent of the middle class will slip into poverty despite the fact that US economy overall will experience solid economic growth surpassing Europe. The small 5 percent at the top will reap most of the growth. Despite all the talk about bringing democracy to far away foreign lands we are forgetting about the home, charity begins at home. Economics has been the main root of the problem with AWs. I noticed women in countries where the gap between rich and poor is less tend to behave differently from American females and treat men more equally, I have noticed this in Australia and in Europe, which have high standards of living but more even income distribution than the US. In America, its a race to get to higher ground($$$) each day. In a lot of other places, women never ask you what you do for a living or how much money you make, and its not because they assume that you are rich because you are American and are in their country. These women approach the local guys in the same manner.
These guys of whom Chocha Monger speaks need to become Dickheads. A Dickhead can fuck an endless stream of hot, tight pussy and never become subject to thoughts of marriage, stipends, getting women out of "the life," or anything else. Yet, a Dickhead can be, or pretend to be (it is unclear which), very loving and tender towards these basically fine creatures. A Dickhead can cook for these women, get to know their families, travel with them, and lend a sympathetic ear to their troubles without ever letting their problems become his own. One secret is to learn their language selectively. I speak Spanish quite well but somehow have never learned the words for "gift," "shopping," "tip," "family emergency," "Western Union," "taxi money," or "restaurant." This helps immeasurably.
Another piece of basic advice: go live in their country; don't bring them to yours. If I never see another American woman, and if I never return to the United States, that is just fine by me as long as I keep my blue passport.
As much animosity as I have towards some of the US of A's actions and attitudes, it is something of a relief to know that you can always call Uncle Sugar for help in a foreign country. It almost makes the taxes worthwhile.
[QUOTE=Mike12]22 year old call girl on the cover of New York magazine for being NY's most highest priced hooker. Claims to make $2000 a trick working around Wall St. Probably does. She looks like a school librarian I wouldn't give $20 to for a BJ. She is talking to producers about having her own reality show.
Su Doku is the latest rage in crossword puzzles BTW.[/QUOTE]Whats wrong with a 22 yo school librarian? Sounds great to me.
Prokofiew: In the minds of almost all our AW Thread posting friends, the USA already has herds of elephants (female humans) wandering around. They are called AW. It would also make sense to develop Africa or somewhere and bring American kids/women there if they want to see elephants in non zoo environments. Imagine being a US high school teacher bringing a bunvh of horny 16 year old guys on school trips via Bangkok, Manila and Buenos Aries.................
Australian passport holders can go just about anywhere without a visa, although I heard of a few being kicked out of the US. I would say the same for Canadians and Western Europeans. As of late I have discovered that its easier to immigrate to Europe than it is to the US, I have been spending some time in Europe and seeing people I know who wouldn't make it into the States.
Speaking of Africa, scientists want to bring lions, giraffes, zebras, hippos, and elephants into North American national parks. These species existed in North America almost 10,000 years ago. Honestly, I think if the US stops playing global police officer a lot of people all over the world including those in the US will be much better off.
[url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/4165432.stm[/url]
I wonder could the US adopt Swaziland's mo. Interesting that the ladies object: guess they just like fucking around. Strange how AW (Africans) like it up the ass and AWs and AWs (Asian and American) are less accommodating. The world is an interesting paradise. Pity we only have one dick.
"As much animosity as I have towards some of the US of A's actions and attitudes, it is something of a relief to know that you can always call Uncle Sugar for help in a foreign country. It almost makes the taxes worthwhile."
I don't have to pay any taxes to the United States.
I have no rice to cook or beans to refry.
I swear sweet monger I do not lie.
Without your money my daddy will die.
You will always be my boyfriend.
Please don't forget my stipend.
When I see Ben my love has no end.
For you I give bare back blowjobs galore.
I see in your eyes that you want more.
Take me with you to that yonder shore.
American women have become such an afterthought I readily consider them asexual. As far as living abroad, it has its risks but these days, there are places as politically and economically stable as the US, you can thank the lone superpower status of the US for this. The European Union and Australia mirror the US in myriad of ways, but I think the women in both places are a cut above US women, a cut way above, in fact. Although locals won't agree, they are desensitized to their own women, looking at the other pasture of grass. I was in a gentlemen's club in Germany, full of voluptuous nude women, and a German guy who discovers I'm American asks me about American women, in a strange way, the mere mention of AWs got me in a bad mood. Calmy, I told him that he wasn't missing out on anything, and to save his money for better things.
I actually found a list of the best countries in which to make a living, guess what? The US is not on top. Most experts say that China will have a larger economy than the US around 2025.
war means action for women, too
by *****lla published august 3, 1999 in scope
war. what is it good for? it's good for getting rid of your man. say it again. sure, he may not come back, but if you're honest with yourself you know that he might not return every time he walks out the door. except now you can be sure of it -- at least for a little while. here's your chance to go out and do all the things you dreamed about doing each night he slept next to you.
let's start with that, sleeping -- with anyone you want (and you all have your eye on someone, you can't lie to *****lla). to assuage your guilt after you've done the deed, just hire a therapist -- any therapist will do -- who will blame your "vulnerability" on "stress" after you confess that you went and "found comfort in another man's arms" because you miss your own so badly. it's beautiful.
we have come a long way, baby. this is a war after the second wave of feminism. we dames are free from having to be decent to you men, who have been such dicks to us since the dawn of misery. so ladies, while your boyfriends/husbands are off in europe, you officially have permission from *****lla to bed any guy (or gal) you want.
but why stop there? charge up his credit cards, redecorate the house, get a tattoo, or, if you wanna see if he really loves you, put on some weight. start working on gaining 50 pounds so there's more of you to love when he gets back. "oh, the stress of missing him so... why, yes, i will have another bonbon."
sorry. this isn't funny. what's a soldier's worst nightmare? that his sweetheart is back in the states living the good life, balling every guy in town while he's up to his eyelashes in blood and mud. so, to you "good" women, who are fuming right now, thinking that i've included you with the typical female swine, don't worry. i know you would never dream of cheating on your lover in such perilous times. absence makes your precious heart grow fonder.
right! just wait until he's back home and you realize you've missed your chance, good lady! and suppose your man has to stay over there for six months or a year. you think married gis don't hump poontang to prove to the boys what big men they are? if not, you watched way too much m*a*s*h, sister.
sure, there's no sex in war.
i watched soldiers being interviewed about whether women should be allowed in combat. they said they thought not, because women would be too much of a distraction -- because they'd be thinking about having sex with them all the time. in a tank.
too bad women can't serve in other ways. we could volunteer to be in the u.s. ***** corps. (i hear the foreign legion has such a thing, but that's the french for you.) women could go over and make a little love to these boys; give them something to live for. you could line up all the men and we'd pick the ones we wanted -- sort of like picking teams in gym class.
just dreamin' out loud. sorry.
war. horrible, isn't it? sending your lovin' man off to a strange country, wondering if you'll ever see him again. how horrible it is all depends on your man, eh? but if he's like any i've known, you won't be missing him for too long. or her. women are reservists, too. i assume they suck in equal proportion to men. in fact, boys, if your woman is going off to war, drop *****lla a line. i know some war games they've never heard of, even in the military.
*****lla is a high school dropout, convicted felon, former junkie, mud wrestler, welfare mother, mensa member and award-winning writer from pittsburgh.
Chocha: Interesting. But this has been going on for a long time. Look at all the war time brides the Yanks left in Britain after the War, and the amount of war brides they took with them. Japan was even more extreme. On of Hitler's biggest setbacks was when he was going to get SS grunts to fuck frauleins to increase the gene/war pool. The guys at the front objected to having their wives done over and he had to abandon the plan.
Where was the biggest battle in the Pacific theater? Midway? Cral Sea? Leyte? No. The biggest battle was in Bribane between US forces and Aussies with the Aussies whinging the Yanks are "over paid. over sexed and over here". And, as many of us are going into Classical mode, Odysseus had the same problem when he went off to Troy.
domino its brisbane, you left out the "s", as a yankee living in australia (no big deal no one knows what brisbane is everyone thinks of sydney or melbourne when talking about australia), i can tell you that most australian women think i make a very big deal out of sex. i spent time in the service myself, got to visit some exotic locales, my time there was the inspiration to move abroad, because i got more pussy as an enlisted man in the military than i did making a six figure salary in the us. about the china thing, a friend of mine got laid off from his job of ten years, to find out it was going to some guy in beijing for a fraction of what he earns in the us. a coworker of mine in new york had to go to india to train his replacement, what a fucking insult, this guy is married with two small children, and he's going to be out of a job in a few months. i have no idea what i would do if i was put in such a position. globalization is a b*itch, i'm glad i got smart by getting into my own business ventures.
many troops abroad have left children all over the world, britain wasn't the only european country. there was book written about american gis and german women, it got to a level that the germans got jealous and even complained to the us government about it. i even remember when i spent some time there, i was treated like elvis by the local frauleins, some of whom were absolutely gorgeous. us troops were concentrated in north african arab countries during world war 2, and there are many people from those areas with very western features.
i would say in a decade, with the ever increasing pace of global economic integration, the idea of labeling american women will be outdated. in this ever increasingly digital world, we are becoming more interconnected and ideas and beliefs pass through borders at ever increasing speed. the more likely term in the near future will be "modern women", i was flipping channels and saw this chinese drama and the women in it act just like aws. so this is not just limited to the us.
Domino,
Odysseus' wife Penelope, demonstrated much more virtue than most skanks though she was confronted by a mansion full of suitors. Skanks like *****lla openly advocate cheating on their military husbands the minute that they embark upon a campaign.
The Trojan War lasted for ten years and then Odysseus was lost on his journey home for many years following the fall of Troy. AWs would not hold out for ten days after their man leaves for battle. In fact, many can be seen on CNN whining about the one year tours that their spouses must complete in Iraq while the divorce rate for the military soars.
In the old days of the Greeks, pussy was taken as part of the spoils of war. These days this is not the case in the US military at least, having sex in a war zone is punishable by court martial. Besides would you risk your head (big and small) for a piece of Iraqi or Afghan pussy? This is probably the one war where there is no sex available.
The Aussies are our allies up to this day precisely because of our servicemen servicing their women, not in spite of it. :D
Who knows about the Iraqi and Afghani women, I'm sure US servicemen are getting something over there in terms of ladies, but it is much more lowkey than elsewhere. Yes as far as the US versus previous major powers, getting into relationships with locals in a sexual way can get you into a lot of trouble. A lot of previous major powers, the British and French, their troops had a lot of sex in their colonies. If you travel to some of their former colonies you will notice that a good number of people there have some Western features. Look at India, all those Bollywood chics have at least a few European features( women who look completely Indian never make it in the Indian film industry), where do you think they got it from?
Please lay off this racist shit. Beauty is about symmetry: the nose, breasts, dick etc being in perfect alignment size wise. Read The Da Vinci code to find out what I mean. Skin color has nothing to do with it but is a genetic evolutionary reaction to the environment. Bring your pale ass skin to the Aussie outback where whiteys have the highest skin cancer rate in the world to see what I mean. The whites are only Indian rejects anyway and they were booted out of there a long time ago.
I am probably the fittest, best looking, sexiest, most tolerant guy who posts here. But in the Philippines it really pisses me off to see all the skin whitening cream for sale. The women buy this because they are being fed non stop shit about how being Albino makes them prettier (and poorer as they buy the shit). American, European and Ausise women are no different worrying about the size of their breasts, teethm my big dick etc.
People are the same world wide, though richer Americans, Aussies and Europeans tend to have major weight problems. Please lay off this Nazi drivel. Hitler, who espoused similar shit, was a wrinkled little man who could not get it up. I am tolerant and have no such problems. Three million Asian women cannot be wrong. Live life or put a 44 in your mouth.
Race is always a dicey subject and the most simple statement can often lead to righteous indignation. It is indeed such a contentious topic that most would rather ignore it altogether. Sometimes you cannot escape it.
The truth of the matter is that many of the other races of the world suffered colonization by the Caucasoid races. This has undoubtably left its mark in former colonies, it would be suprising if it did not. The invaders brought a white Jesus, white angels, white dolls and white models and actresses in the media. They controlled the government and the military at the highest levels. Beauty products were sold and promoted using depictions of porcelain white ladies with rosy pink cheeks, delicate noses, blond hair and blue eyes.
The little yellow, brown, black and red girls were given white dolls to play with which surely helped shape their idea of what beauty was supposed to look like. Those who were converted to Christianity spent their lives trying to get to a heaven where everything was white, while fearing a hell filled with black devils, demons and darkness. Whiteness became synonymous with wealth and power because that was more often the case than not.
True, science tells us that symmetry is nature's definition of beauty but women don't often choose a handsome man over a plain one with wealth and power. The media and society also has a big role in saying what is desirable and what is not. Therefore, the Filipina girls will continue to believe that bleaching their skin will make them more beautiful.
Indeed if one were to look at the media in Latin America, India and a number of other places one would get the impression that the demographic majority is light skinned with mostly caucasian features, although the truth of the matter is the exact opposite. Though many would deny it, being white with blue eyes and blond hair in regions other than North America, Europe and Australia often enables a lot of "free" amateur action from the local girls. This may be due to the novelty of the experience, perceived socio-economic status or attractiveness.
Sadly, the miscegenated off-spring of the former colonial masters often regard themselves as the rightful heirs to seats of power and wealth in the ex-colonies long after the imperialists have departed taking as much as they can along with them. Conquest is a nasty thing with lasting effects, whether it is a Filipina trying to bleach her skin white or the word "indian" being considered an insult in Latin America.
I was not talking about my own preferences but when I traveled to India I was surprised at the attitude that many people had about skin color. You would think that in a country where most people are dark, that would be the preference, but among many in that country there is a very Eurocentric attitude among them no doubt a product of British colonialism, all over Asia and the Middle East this attitude exists. I think it will eventually change, I thought it was a major surprise. Many of these Asian countries where this Eurocentric attitude exists are in Thailand, Singapore, The Phillipines, Malaysia, South Korea, Japan, Mynamar, India, they are all countries aligned with the West politically. The lone exception is China, the Chinese have an attitude towards their people and culture that is similar to Europeans within Europe and Americans within America, the idea that they are best country and best people on Earth, so you won't find mainland Chinese involved in this bleaching game.
As far as the whiteness issue, most Asians are pale skinned. Even ethnic North Indians, Iranians, and Arabs, many of them have a fair complexion. Many of these societies were once colonies so much of this attitude is legacy of colonial times. I have an Indian friend who has an Arab girlfriend, from looking at her you would assume she is of Scandinavian origin, she has blonde hair and blue eyes, but she is 100 percent Lebanese. Interesting this woman's brother had a serious problem with having an Indian date her sister. I thought it was fucked up, a close relative of mine married a hispanic, and I had no problems at all with it.
Being blonde and blue eyed in a region outside of Europe, North America, Australia/NZ will make you "unique". Being dark skinned in these afforementioned places will also make you unique. I knew a lot of guys who got hit on in Germany and Australia. Its mainly an issue of exoticism, you won't find too many blondes in Asia or in SA, on the opposite side of the coin, in the Western world its vice versa.
BTW, Domino, I am not pale at all, quite tan due to being half Southern Italian, I brown pretty good in the Australian sun and look Mediteranean, and its gotten me into some strange situations in Asia but not in Europe. I am quite good looking and do well in places where Nordic blondes roam, but somehow the Asians didn't dig me so well, and was confused because they think all Europeans and Americans have blonde hair and blue eyes, so I was on the receiving end of Asian racism. Hitler? What about Bush?? There are so many parallels between Bush and Republican party and Hitler and the National Socialists, they are so similar its frightening. Oh yeah and go fuck yourself Domino, when your in Sydney tell me where you are so I can kick the living crap out of you and put your redneck ass in a wheelchair. Fuck you.
Chocha, I remember reading waaaaaaaaaaay back in elementary school about the Catse System of India. To put it simply, the lighter the skin, the higher your caste, and the better off you were in Life. The reverse was true for darker-skinned people. At the very bottom of the Caste, the darkest skinned peoples were often the Untouchables. Given the name, I need not elaborate upon the views of the lighter skinned higher-castes upon these unfortunate souls. ALSO, if you look closely at ancient Indian art depicting humans, you will find the idealized version of a man or woman with very light skin (not necessarily pale) but very light in comparison to what may be the MAJORITY of the country. To further prove your point and that of CBGB, the woman titled "The Most Beautiful in the World" is a light-skinned Indian Woman (an actress who landed a VERY lucrative contract with Oil of Olay) who would more than likely (if she strictly observed the caste System) be at the very top of the ladder. Don't worry, my bretheren, this is no tirade, but simply an objective observation.
Hey Guys,
It's been over a year. Have had a lot of weird stuff coming down in my life and when the old site went down I lost interest. Thanks to Bart 9000, he directed me to the new site or address. Greetings to Bart 9000, DH, Sinju, etc. Have missed you guys.
Had a real "American girl" girl experience a few weeks ago that I wanted to bounce off you. Was hanging in a bar with my tennis buddies and there were some cute but kinda heavy women near us. The guys struck up a conversation with them (after quite a few beers I might add). One of the girls started talking with me and being a gentleman I was polite and responded back to her. After a while she pulls out her cell and asks for my phone number. I gave her a fake one of course. She's then shocked that I don't ask for hers. She then starts to make cracks to the effect that I'm "gay" to her friends. In her egocentric delusional way she could only conclude that a man who isn't interested in a babe like her must be gay. Has anyone else caught this routine from American women?
Paddy
Paddy
Paddy,
You're lucky that she only attacked you verbally by accusing you of being gay, she could have done something much worst like slapping you hard in the face or throwing a drink on you. You see many American guys in your situation would have not only asked for her number, they would have rolled over and begged along with performing a few tricks. You were no doubt expected to do the same after purchasing her several expensive drinks.
Things are so bad in the US that even fat sows like that expect guys to leap at the mere prospect of getting their number. She was no doubt surprised and offended that you were not frothing at the mouth to bone her ample folds of flesh. American women will never give pause to the thought that any man would not desire them because they're fat, ugly, obnoxious or whatever flaw they may possess. If you're not begging to get shot down then they will try to humiliate you.
Your experience reminds me why I decided to stay out of bars and clubs a long time ago. From the time I discovered that one could actually get pussy for price of admission to a club I saw no point in frequenting bars to buy strange women drinks or to put up with their psycho bullshit. I have no interest in doing AWs, even the occasional decent looking ones.
CM
Hey Paddy,
You have already heard this story, but I will share it with the guys. I had a similar experience to what Paddy is describing a few years ago. A somewhat attractive middle aged woman accused me of smuggling the bone a few years ago because I failed to kiss her ass like all the other guys do. I was highly offended by this of course. God forbid that I happen to prefer (and did get at that time-I was 29ish) girls half her age, and that she is only "OK" to me-I would probably nail you if you laid down and spread, but I'm not putting effort into it. But I digress.
Then, I discovered Eastern Europe, and it was all over with.
"Bart"
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050823/ap_on_he_me/obesity_state_rankings[/url]
Let's all go to Oregon.
Chocha: Maybe Chavez should call for the assassination of Robertson. [url]http://ihatepatrobertson.com/[/url]
[QUOTE=Domino]Paddy Amazing! Why not go to Wikipedia etc and make a few "entries" along the lines of the following: [url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050822/ap_on_re_us/thesaurus_arab[/url][/QUOTE]
Chocha, Paddy, Bart:
Reading about your experiences kind of reminds me of why I got into P4P. After having sampled the world's delights (pro and non-pro allike) by way of port-of-calls in the Navy, AW were a huge letdown for me. Besides, after looking at what a Western guy typically spends on trying to land a female who MAY put out (if he's lucky) one finds he could have easily hired the pussy for the same amount (sometimes less) and gotten a sure thing instead.
Trolling for AW is not cost effective.
It's a good thing we're not teenagers and definitely know better!!
U.S. Cuts Off Abstinence Program Funding
NewsMax.com Wires
Wednesday, Aug. 24, 2005
PITTSBURGH -- The federal government has cut off funding to a nationwide program that promotes abstinence to teens through skits and music videos, saying the group in charge of the campaign did not adequately separate religion from its message.
The Silver Ring Thing program, related to a Christian ministry based in the Pittsburgh suburbs, puts on shows at churches nationwide that include "Saturday Night Live"-style skits, music videos and a message of abstinence. Young people are given a silver ring and decide whether they want to pledge to abstain from sex.
Department of Health and Human Services regulations state that groups receiving department funding "may not engage in inherently religious activities, such as worship, religious instruction or proselytization."
The department said in a letter dated Monday that if such activities are offered, they must be held separately from programs or services funded by the government.
"Our review indicates that the (Silver Ring Thing) may not have included adequate safeguards to clearly separate in time or location inherently religious activities from the federally funded activities," said the letter, signed by Harry Wilson, associate commissioner of the Family and Youth Services Bureau.
The department said it was suspending funds until the group submits a plan detailing how it plans to remedy the issue.
Since 2003, Silver Ring Thing has received $1.2 million from the department as part of the Bush administration's initiative to expand abstinence-only education.
Messages left for Denny Pattyn, Silver Ring Thing's founder and president, and Health and Human Services officials were not immediately returned Tuesday.
The department's decision follows a lawsuit that the American Civil Liberties Union filed in May, claiming that the federal government improperly used taxpayer dollars to fund the group's religious activities.
Julie Sternberg, an attorney with the ACLU's Reproductive Freedom Project, said the group was pleased the government recognized that the Silver Ring Thing's road show was improper.
The Silver Ring Thing has said that more than 30,000 young people have committed themselves to abstinence after attending the program's three-hour presentations.
© 2005 The Associated Press
Cy, I remember seeing a news show (Dateline, I believe) that featured some of these same crazies. These clowns DELIBERATELY skewed info that would be helpful to teens who were more than likely gonna do the "nasty". Specifically, they would always quote inaccurate stats of the "failure rate" of the protective ability of condoms. They quoted a "failure rate" of 70% in order to scare these young people into NOT having sex until marriage. In the SAME program, a woman who worked with the CDC said that PROPERLY USED, a condom can protect the user and the partner about 98-99% of the time. Of course, the fork-tongued religious-based role model didn't mention that. Yes, abstinence works 100% of the time, BUT when you're 16 and you're exploring your body and you see members of the opposite sex that turn your hormones into Vesuvius circa 79AD, abstinence vanishes quicker than cigarette smoke in front of an industrial sized fan. It makes me laugh when I think of the things the parents of these church-going teens must tell them. I feel that it must amount to a fairy tale where the birth of a child is "magic". What happens when the 18 year old woman marries her sweetheart and stays with him for a while? She eventually gets bored with the lack of sexual knowledge of her partner and then hears from a friend, or reads from a book, the world of sexual experiences she knows she will never get to encounter, because she swallowed the lies of those who seek to control her life through religion. To make the story short, the happy god-fearing couple eventually get divorced. Preaching practicalty to teens would mean losing their (the zealots) grip on power.
The biggest change that will occur over the next 20 years is that nearly 25 percent of the US population will be put into poverty due to globalization. Like it or not the US is becoming a third world country. The biggest excuse for many posters on this board to stay is the money, well things aren't going so well in the States anymore. Ever notice how the Euro is trouncing the US dollar and has been doing so since its been in circulation? The value of a nation's currency is a good indicator of its economic health, and in Europe, the US Dollar is worthless. Try buying something over in Europe in US dollars, they will not take them.
CBGB,
I checked the statistics and you are correct, the American middle class is shrinking. Among other things to consider besides the weakening dollar:
1. Rising home prices.
2. Loss of jobs to overseas locations.
3. Erosion of job benefits for remaining jobs.
4. Increasing health care costs.
5. Loss of privacy and freedom due to War on Terror.
6. Feminism continues to grow more radical.
7. American females continue to grow to plus sizes.
8. AW demands have continued to grow in direct proportion with the size of their asses.
9. Rising energy costs.
10. Blurring of the lines between religion and state.
11. Social security. What social security?
Money is not a factor for remaining in the U.S. unless you're earning 75K or more, otherwise you lose relatively little by emigrating in terms money and sex.
But look on the bright side, after the U.S. becomes a Third World country we can all return home in twenty years to fill the bars and wh*rehouses with prime hamburger fed American pussy. The Australian, Chinese, European and Japanese punters can pay us top dollar for the abundant amounts of loving our AWs will provide.
P.S. I can see it now, "Chocha Monger's All American Ho House". :D
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]The biggest change that will occur over the next 20 years is that nearly 25 percent of the US population will be put into poverty due to globalization. Like it or not the US is becoming a third world country. The biggest excuse for many posters on this board to stay is the money, well things aren't going so well in the States anymore. Ever notice how the Euro is trouncing the US dollar and has been doing so since its been in circulation? The value of a nation's currency is a good indicator of its economic health, and in Europe, the US Dollar is worthless. Try buying something over in Europe in US dollars, they will not take them.[/QUOTE]Although its middle class may be shrinking, USA will continue to lead the world economically and technologically. Socialistic and lazy western-Europe will continue towards its second-tier status while more entrepreneurial China and India step up. Then we will have a G-3 instead of a G-7. 25 years from now I´ll withdrawl 500 euros (US$100) from a cash machine in Barcelona, Nice, or Prague and nail 10 local *****s for that amount. All the while snobby Euro-Peons (and Brits and Australians and even Canadians) will be predicting the demise of the USA as they have been during the last 200 years.
Let me add one to Chocha's list:
The replacement of the defined benefit pension plan with a 401K---this is a travesty. As a former financial advisor, I can definitively state that "Joe-Six-Pack" isn't equipped with the capacity to adequately manage an investment portfolio. Couple this with the ageing of the population, and we have another disaster heading our way-or at least a lot of retirees supplementing their incomes working as a greeter at Walmart.
I have been perusing the protest photos on this site and I wish to attract comments on the following: they protested outside a church atended by old Presbyterians and told them they were all shit eaters etc; and they protested outside the Idaho church where Brian Rominez was being buried from. He was killed by an IED in Iraq.
Now I know Jackson is a StarsnStripes man and many of us, me included, are not. I certainly thought from day 1 that the war in Iraq was totally wrong. But I do know that if Rominez and his family were any way connected with me, I would be tempted to do serious damage to these people on behalf of his family.
Maybe they have that figured in as I am sure the friends and comrades of Rominez must have been very upset by these lunatics.
I cannot see how anyone could be that insensitive and could bring their children along to gloat over a stranger's death. Maybe the Ku Klux Klan did shit like that in the 1920s. These people seem to do it a lot.
What relevance has this to this thread? If idiots like this are allowed do shit like this in America, then there is no hope for America. This is not a pro or anti Iraq war post but very much an anti people like that post. I can't figure them. Maybe you can.
i have returned back to new york (big mistake but my parents live here) after a 4 year stay in brazil and i notice a trend towards some guys (mostly hip hoppers) liking plus size women. i see lots of fat behemoths actually getting a thin as a rail guy. i went to a club called "speed" which is an all hip-hop music club and 90 percent of the women were all fat so i left repulsed. it is the fact that plus sized women are more accepted by american society today than in the past. if thin women is old fashioned then i am proud to call myself "old-fashioned" because i want thin and fit women. i also see more ads with "plus-sized models".
after seeing this acceptance of porkers, i will return to brazil after making more money. at least thin and fit is encouraged there instead of gross and fat. on top of that, the women in new york have not gotten nicer either. now i face fat and mean women. at least in the midwest, they are nicer but some still fat.
the job market here in new york is not any better either. i am making less money in my current job than in my last job i had before i left. in fact, the income level in this city is getting lower and the lower class is growing tremendously. i unfortunately joined this lower class.
my us dollar is now worth a third of what it was worth 4 years ago. i thought i could get away with not working in brazil with the 4.5 reais to 1 dollar exchange but now it is worth 2.1 to 1 today. with the dollar shrinking in value and the prices of goods in brazil staying the same, i had to return to the u.s broke.
i would have to blame president bush for this. when he got into office, he pushed the value of the currency down so he could benefit from his domestic gains in his oil companies. when our currency goes down, we pay more at the gas pump, the gas companies make money, and bush collects more us currency. we also have to pay more us currecncy out towards opec and since bush has shares in opec, he also makes more us currency there. bush could care less about foreign currency beating the dollar. he doesn't even care if the dollar is worth a penny to the euro dollar. he only cares about his spending power here in the us. if the us becomes a third world country, bush would still have the same spoiled lifestyle as he would now. it is sad that brazil's third world economy is catching up to the us.
The ups and downs of dating a female player
By Jonathan Small
Listen in as one man shares what it's like to go out with one of these irresistible but dangerous creatures: The female player.
Tonight would be the night, my friend Johnny told himself.
He'd dated the lovely Sarah off and on—flirting with her over $15 cocktails at swanky clubs, trying to get closer and being pushed away. He finally decided to go for it—to show her how he really felt and pull her into his orbit once and for all. Off they went to New York for the weekend and all was going well. They laughed and kissed over dinner at a hip Japanese restaurant... that is, until a guy named Brad happened to appear.
Sarah had mentioned to her "friend," as she called Brad, that she might be in town for the weekend, and let slip the name of the place where she and Johnny would be dining. Since Brad knew the hottest parties in town, Sarah thought the three of them could team up to hit a few. Before Johnny could raise any objections, his romantic date was co-opted into a group outing—one where he was forced to watch Brad and Sarah bump and grind all night. The kicker? She ended up spending the rest of the weekend with Brad. And Johnny? He was devastated. He had no idea women acted that way. He'd been used... and it wasn't a pretty sensation.
Players. Long a label associated exclusively with men (James Bond, Mr. Big, and Alfie, to name a few), this term has increasingly become all too fitting for a growing number of women as well. Like their male counterparts, female players are always stringing along numerous suitors and thriving on all the attention—not to mention the flower deliveries. What makes her tick? And can we guys stop ourselves from falling for her? As someone who's dated one or two of these ladies (and recoils at the memory), let me share what I can on the subject. First, the good news:
Female player fact #1: There's a definite ego boost that comes from dating her.
These women don't get all this attention from guys because they're wallflowers or plain Janes. They are dazzling conversationalists, well-dressed, and very capable flirts. Says Paul, 37, "I've dated a couple of women like this, and, I have to say, they present themselves in such a great way. It's like dating a character on Sex and the City. They're full of funny stories, and they always have beautiful hair, beautiful nails, great clothes. When you're out with one of them, you feel like a clever, Hugh Grant type out on the town." That's part of what keeps a guy coming back to these women—they feel as if they're part of a rarefied, fabulous world when they're with her. Oh, and there's one more specific way in which they dazzle a guy, as you'll see in my next point.
Female player fact #2: She has incredible lingerie.
All of the guys I interviewed who had dated a female player said the same thing (looking rather dreamy-eyed): Great lingerie. "This is not the kind of girl who's going to be caught dead in plain cotton undies," says Tony, 41. "The woman I dated? She toyed with my emotions, that's for sure. But I can't help but be nostalgic for her lingerie drawer. I'd never seen anything like it. Talk about a kid in a candy store. I guess she'd accumulated that wardrobe to keep her different suitors enticed."
Now, the less-than-good news:
Female player fact #3: These women are on a power trip.
These women believe the pleasure of their company is a treasure men should work for. One player named Christie, 28, explains it this way: "I don't throw myself at guys; I see dates as a trade-off: The guy gets to be seen with a hot girl at a restaurant, and I get to eat sushi for free," she says. "I had a male friend take me to get a couples massage. He got to see me in a towel and I got pampered at a nice hotel. Sounds fair, don't you think?"
Obviously, a guy's ego can take a real butt-whupping from this kind of treatment. I don't know about you, but feeling like a doggie chasing a premium biscuit isn't exactly a sensation I cherish in my personal life. Knowing that these women see themselves as "above you" is a real cold shower in my book.
It goes without saying that guys love the thrill of the chase—and that's exactly what a female player gives them by keeping the relationship casual. "Guys don't like it when you're too eager and available, so I keep my schedule booked," explains Mary, a chic blonde who usually juggles a handful of suitors. "When you make a guy work for it, he really ramps up the romance—he's doing everything he can to impress you and be the last man standing. I'm really amazed by how hard a man will try to win me over: Orchids, dinner at the most in-demand restaurants, incredible love notes—sometimes even jewelry. It's almost embarrassing what a guy will do to get the girl."
Embarrassing, yeah. A female player's way of remaining cool, coveted and non-committal can drive a guy crazy. The prophet Jay-Z once said, "Don't hate the player, hate the game," but that's a tall order. My best advice? If you find yourself drawn into the web of one of these women, set your pride aside—and bring your checkbook.
Jonathan Small has been played like an Xbox by several women. A freelance writer based in Los Angeles, he's also co-author of the new book, The Best Places to Kiss in Southern California.
Brazil isn't the only third world economy catching up with the US, the two most prominent are China and India. China's nominal GDP will surpass Japan's in ten years and surpass the US in 2035. You also have to consider the PPP GDP measure, and by that measure a dollar buys five times in China what it would in the US, in other words they will be able to have the same amount of products at lower cost. If 25 percent of the population are going to wind up in poverty, what kind of future can America expect? I don't think the Europeans are lazy Moore, you obviously haven't been to Europe. Ever notice how much better European automobiles are, the difference in quality between an Audi and a Buick is substantial.
Darkseid, New York is a shithole, I am glad I no longer live there. People in Australia think New York is all money and glamour. While Australians can be cool, they are also the most naive idiots you can meet, the product of living in a sheltered society, they have no clue how easy their lives are compared to just about everyone else, the last time I checked no major disaster or calamity affected Australia. The place is as good as it gets. I was recently visiting New York and saw a group of Australian tourists walking around Long Island City in Queens, and they looked puzzled, they had the idea of a city with streets lined with Ferraris and Benzes, that couldn't be further from reality, even in the richer parts of the city its not like that at all. They got to see what a ghetto in a US city looks like and it sobered them up to reality.
The USA can be a heaven on Earth, unfortunately the powers that be in our government are determined to stuff their selfish ass pockets with money at the expense of the working and middle class American worker. That is fucking bullshit. Like it or not, in history when large numbers of workers are left out and alienated, a political shitstorm occurs, think about the US today and then look at Germany circa 1930, the similiarities are striking.
Chocha's "Female Players"-It is exactly this type of behavior that turned me from a naive sweet, generous, flower/drink/present buying, faithful, kind, caring puppydog of a guy into a cynical European prostitute chasing tightwad (towards the AW's anyways-I gladly open my wallet to girls of the rest of the world). There was a young girl the other night who upon some discussion of her coming to my house, started to instruct me in how to please her in terms of providing alcohol (I like X, I like Y etc)-I laughed in her face and told her "you will take what I give you and like it.
The ironic thing is that now I know that being a jerk like that goes a hell of a lot farther towards getting to the wet spot than being a sweet guy who gladly accomodates her wishes.
One thing the posted article failed to mention is that "Brad" is most likely a self absorbed, useless scumbag loser who could't care less if she is live or dead. AW's are basically just "wired backwards". After I returned from my last trip to Prague, I actually walked around saying "Dammit, I have to start being mean to girls again!"
Regarding the Hip Hop fetish towards "thick" women (however it was phrased", I have only one thing to say:
Yo Yo Yo Yo they can have them.
Bart9K
From my travel experiences, I have met more people who speak clear English in a large European city than in most US cities. A common joke in Australia, is that the Spanish speakers are going to outnumber English speakers in the US, unless they put a law into effect that you have to read, write, and speak English to live in the US. On a recent trip, I met a Bulgarian brunette who looked better than Angelina Jolie and spoke perfect English with a sexy Eastern European accent, I was wondering why I can't run into a woman like this back home in the US. Anyway decided to stay permanently in Australia, they give me a choice of having 5 weeks or 8 weeks of vacation here.
do looks or likeness count most?
by faye flam
knight ridder news service
august 25, 2005
is dating really a search for that special match, or is it more like a commercial venture – a meat market with the hottest-looking holding all the capital?
science has found an answer using "speed dating," a singles event in which opposite sexes are matched up for a series of encounters of three to four minutes.
psychologist robert kurzban of the university of pennsylvania says his goal was to distinguish between two possible models of mating behavior. one, called the "matching hypothesis," suggests people seek partners like themselves. if you're an ugly green ogre, for example, you'd choose an ugly green ogress over a beautiful princess. "it's kind of the disney model," kurzban says.
the other possibility is the "market model." everyone agrees on who's most attractive, but in the end we're forced to settle for the best we can get. cyrano wants pretty roxanne, not a woman with a huge proboscis. failure to settle ends tragically.
to determine which scenario most closely resembles the real world, kurzban turned to hurrydate, a speed-dating provider. he and colleague jason weeden got 2,650 participants to fill out surveys revealing weight, height, age, number of children, previous marriages and attitudes toward premarital sex. it also asked participants to rate their own faces, bodies and personalities on scales from 1 to 7.
the mechanics of speed dating gave the psychologists a chance to see which participants were chosen most often and by whom. in hurrydate, you rotate through a series of three-or four-minute conversations with each of about 25 possible suitors. after each encounter, you mark a card "no" or "yes." on average, men got a "yes" from 34 percent of the women, while women got the approval of 49 percent of the men. if two yeses match up, the pair can exchange e-mail or phone numbers.
the most important factor determining how many "yeses" you got was your weight in proportion to your height. it made the biggest difference for women, but looks and fitness mattered for men, too. what didn't seem to matter much were personality, religion, education, income, drinking, smoking or children.
in the end, the market model won. the same people were consistently deemed desirable. when it comes to first impressions, at least, beauty is not in the eye of the beholder but in the body of the beholdee.
florida atlantic university psychologist todd shackelford puts it bluntly: people who are 1s and 2s (on a scale from 1 to 10) don't want other 1s and 2s. if you're a 6, say, your partner would rather have a 10, but has to settle for you.
what a cold, calculating world it is.
"i don't see why more people don't go to a gym," says kurzban, that being the most obvious way to boost your market value. still, he says, the extreme emphasis on looks characterizes only the first phase of mate-selection – a "first-pass filter." at this stage, we're driven by animal instincts to find fertile and healthy mates.
It might be a cold world, except where I live, there are plenty of good people out there. Frankly, I think over the next couple of decades things will improve abroad economically to create opportunities for living around the world.
As far as Europe is concerned, the Eurochics don't seem to like fast men, maybe the MTV crowd, but the fact that I get ample vacation time to slow down makes it easy to build resonance with European women who prefer men to slow down a bit. I got sandwiched next two Russian 20somethings just yesterday on the plane to Barcelona, one seemed to like me and wanted me to tutor her with her English :). That's one issue, I don't think European women will adjust well to the frenzied pace of life in North America without undergoing changes to their personality and appearance, usually these changes are mostly bad. The issue for Asian and South American women will be different due to mostly to economics. Running water and decent plumbing is a luxury in many parts of Asia and SA. When you take a European/Australian women to the US, a lot of them live in countries that have standards of living comparable but not exact to the US, they live in more sheltered societies, so adjusting to a more cosmopolitan and ultra urban US might be difficult.
[QUOTE=hardbarg]Do looks or likeness count most?
Florida Atlantic University psychologist Todd Shackelford puts it bluntly: People who are 1s and 2s (on a scale from 1 to 10) don't want other 1s and 2s. If you're a 6, say, your partner would rather have a 10, but has to settle for you.
What a cold, calculating world it is.
"I don't see why more people don't go to a gym," says Kurzban, that being the most obvious way to boost your market value. Still, he says, the extreme emphasis on looks characterizes only the first phase of mate-selection – a "first-pass filter." At this stage, we're driven by animal instincts to find fertile and healthy mates.[/QUOTE]
This study proves my experiences in Hip Hop clubs the big ugly behemoths (all races) gravitate towards them because they hope to find thin hip hop men who have the fetish for fat or "fattish" as I call it. These women are the 1s or 2s in my standard and yet they hook up with these men.
This is another way American men are castrated. We are no longer the bigger sex but now the American women are bigger and heavier species. This looks like the insect kingdom where the female praying mantis is bigger than the male. After they mate, the female has the male's head. Same thing with marriage, the bigger, fatter, behemoth woman gets almost all of the thinner man's money. American men have become the insect kingdom because of these palimony makers. Women have the driver's seat if they are allowed to become fat and we have to select among these fat women and forced to keep them in marriage or else go broke through divorce. This is really sick!!! More incentive to stay single here and enjoy foreign travel.
Bart9000, I like the way you put it- yo yo yo yo, they could have them. (LOL)
I'm in Spain right now and some people here think the typical American woman looks like Angelina Jolie. They should go to the hip hop club you were hanging out at Darkseid. The hip hop pricks could have their lardasses for all I care. I'll fuck Australian surfer chics in the meantime.
My friend in the Czech Republic told me that her mother went into shock when she came to visit the US-her image of everyone's life here as more or less "Melrose Place" and "Baywatch" (derived from imported TV of course), was shockingly transformed into "Free Willy".
Something I have been meaning to post about for awhile is that I have seen a lot of recently is much less than desireable (low IQ, morbidly obese, low class, etc) women getting married to "fresh off the boat" type hispanic imigrants who are more or less "normal guys" (average looking, height weight proportionate, etc). Among other things, this demonstrates is that the behavior of optimizing mating prospects through crossing national borders is not exclusively demonstrated by American men. I won't be bringing that up in any arguments however, because I don't want to be lumped into a category with a bunch of "slug" type AW.
"Fattish"-I love it. Right back at you Darkseid!
Darkseid,
Can only agree with your observations about AW and the fat issue in particular. What's really, really bizzare is that American guys still go after those whales. I guess that we're acclimated to them or something.
Another thing I've noticed where I live is that these "thunder thighs" women almost always have their kids in tow. I mean, guys are actually screwing these fat, ugly bitches! Wow. We American guys have it rough.
Bart and I discovered Eastern European women and that was it for us. If a Czech woman looked like a lot of the women in America, they wouldn't even come out of the house.
In defense of big woman in the US, alot of them might be fat but they make up for it in personality without being stuck up and having that "I'm a hot ***** and you are just after my pussy attitude". They can be cool people unlike hot AW's who can't get out of their own way. Now I like slender woman, but a J-Lo body type or Minnie Driver will get my attention. What you have to watch out for is when you meet a chick that just lost some weight and thinks she has you for good. Little while later she gains the weight back and more. Happens all the time.
You will find fat women everywhere on the planet. Even in places where people tend to be trim you will find them. Its all relative, in the US 80 percent of women are either overweight or obese. J Lo is an attractive woman in an exotic way, women like her in my experience are the most unapproachable ones. The more "common" attractive women tend to be easier. I was hanging out on a beach here in Spain, and saw a group of blonde German women, had no problems whatsoever hooking up with them, but then I saw a very exotic tanned Spaniard, Jessica Alba looalike, and couldn't hit it off with her. A few days earlier
I saw a an exotic Asian woman at Sydney airport and was able to speak to her, she was from Malaysia, she was really tall and had a very exotic look, her eyes were unbelievable.
CBGB,
It's true, there are fat women all over the planet. The problem is that most of them are concentrated here. Just like Saudi Arabia has most of the oil, North America has most of the fat women.
It also seems that the poorest and most uneducated are also the fattest. Has anyone else noticed the same thing? My wife (from Africa) didn't believe me when I told her that all those fat people were mostly poor. This must be the only part of the world where this is so.
Rock
Our poor subsist mostly on a diet of incredibly fattening highly processed crap. It's cheap to make, cheap to sell, and has the biggest profit margin for the corporate scumbags make and sell it. Also, it makes them lethargic and less likely to stir things up.
I have to disagree with Mike about fat women, I have seen a lot of plus size women in NYC, and many of them aren't friendly, in fact they are nasty as hell, arrogant, and many are obnoxious with silver tongues. Many times when I travel around the world, I see the epitome of class. On a connecting flight from Singapore to Frankfurt, I met a lovely Austrian woman of Turkish origin, she was absolute class and beauty and made a 20 hour flight feel like an hour. She was only a modestly paid flight attendant with an income that is a fraction of women I have met in New York, yet she had ten times more class, and reminded me of a young Jackie Kennedy. Some people from NY might know the anecdote about fat Long Island women. Long Island happens to be one of the wealthiest areas of the United States, and the entire world, and I would say the majority of women I have met there are fat not to mention nasty and obnoxious. I could go to a more working class city like Minneapolis and see that the women there are far more attractive than those in the Northeast, then again a lot of women in Minnesota there trace their roots directly to Scandinavia and Germany.
As far as the issue of poverty is concerned, most Europeans would be considered "poor" by US standards, yet European women are on average slimmer and more attractive than their US counterparts. Germany is the richest country in Europe, but more than half of Germans live in cramped apartments and don't own a home or their own car. They don't seem to indulge in buying unecessary junk food and going out to eat fast food, not as much as American women, since they have less disposable income, and European women are very budget conscious. One Bulgarian lady I met in Germany even refused some rather nice presents I got for her, she loved to cook, and I bought her a set of cooking pots, rather nice, but she turned it away flat.
Fact 1. 65% of all Americans are obese by medical standards.
Fact 2. People from New York city or New Jersey are unfriendly, rude, self-centered and arrogant.
Fact 3. People from Minneapolis may be more friendly, but they are also fat. The best place to go for friendly people is Montana or North Dakota. I know from experience because I lived in Mpls for 23 years.
Fact 4. Younger people are slimmer. The women have not had babies yet and once they have babies they get fat.
I am going to the gym right now to do my part and I stay away from New Yorkers. I have in the past been friends with a person from New Jersey, she was nice. But no New Yorkers.
I just got back from a two week trip to Europe and realized afterwards how truly fat Americans, both men and women, are. I could not believe how slim Europeans were, no matter what age. I attribute this to their diet and way of life.
Driving a car is not economically feasible there and the sight of hot Europeans chicks, dressed up fabulously, and riding bicycles was something to behold. There were a numbers of times that I had to take pictures of them riding their bikes on the streets of Amsterdam and Copenhagen because I had to show this phenomena to my pals back in the US.
A great thing about European women, no matter how good looking, is how friendly they were. I was able to talk to attractive total strangers in Spain, Denmark, Germany and the Netherlands quite easily. All one has to do is to act like a gentleman and be nice. I offered my seat in a crowded tram to an attractive German girl in Amsterdam and the next thing you know I had her phone number and a date that night. I think they appreciate that moreso than in the US, where arrogance seems to be a virtue.
I can't wait to get back and going there via Iceland Air is as cheap as going to Costa Rica. Next time, I'll try Eastern Europe. I met some Croatian women on my last trip and they were gorgeous.
Mike, I have to disagree with you about obese women being friendly. They are in fact the most arrogant pieces of shits I ever met. They are the meanest sanitation cops, meter maids, and DMV personnel I ever encounter. I don't mean to generalize but EVERY ONE OF THEM were like that and that is because of the feminist -"You go girl", snake-head culture in the big cities such as NYC, Detroit, and Chicago. There might be a few exceptions but there are so few of them that I haven't found any. And this is not because they can't get laid. I'm sure with all these guys with "fattishes" can hook up with them and they get some at least once a week. Also guys that don't travel also think they are the only game in town and think they are doomed to be with these women so they also hook up with them.
These buffaloes are also the worst bitches to break up with. I had a Cuban girl that turned fat because her friend she met at the cursed New York University corrupted her with the feminist behemoth culture and told her to make my life a living hell any way possible. She listened and did that for 2 years before she found a new guy who was into "thick" women. Imagine if I had gotten married, I would have been broke because they are very spiteful and want to make you suffer. As they say about marriage there are 3 rings- engagement ring, wedding ring, and suffer-ring. Divorce from one of these fat AWs is like a Financial Venereal Disease. You suffer financial deterioration for the rest of your life.
The most unfortunate scenario about AW today is that their children are becoming miniature piglets. Gyms and athletic recreational facilities are being replaced by fast food eateries and restaurants. The gymnastics gym I used to work out in was replaced by an eatery with a Burger King, Wendy's, Chinese take-out placed called Panda Express, and a Dunkin Donuts. This location used to be filled with "fit" tumblers, now it is filled with "fat" whales. New York City is becoming a cesspool full of junk food. I could hardly find a place to work out here anymore. There are a few gyms left but they charge $75 a month and I have to bite the bullet and pay that because I can't fit a home gym in my parent's small apartment. I still can't figure why my retired dad won't leave this hellhole but I was forced to move back in with my parents because of Bush and his effect on my financial situation.
[QUOTE=Ngp477]
Fact 2. People from New York city or New Jersey are unfriendly, rude, self-centered and arrogant.
[/QUOTE]
That's the reason why I left, and its also part of the reason why the US is seen negatively in a lot of places. To most people around the world, New York is representative of America, living abroad, I noticed that its the most common destination for a lot of people to visit. I have met people from New York abroad and they perputuate the stereotype of nasty people but then I see someone from the Midwest or West coast and they behave totally different. Australians I know meet mostly Californians who tend to be very laid back so California is Australia's image of the US. Even though I'm from New York, most people don't believe it because I tend to be quiet and mellow.
Life in the Northeast US is a depressing hell on Earth. The interesting thing is that physically northern European countries like Holland, Germany, and the Scandinavian countries resemble Northeastern US cities to some degree but they don't depress the shit out of me, its because of the women.
The WHO did a report about obesity worldwide, it was interesting to read, not surprising the US has the most obese population in the world. The United Kingdom and Ireland ranked second and third. Some of the other countries surprised me, Germany and Russia are considered to be fat countries as well. That beats me because every German or Russian lady I have met seems to be a stick figure. The countries that are moderate included Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Denmark, Japan, Italy, Sweden, and the Netherlands. France is considered to be the skinniest country in the industrialized world according to the report.
I have asked a number of guys who fuck fat women what do they see in them? The answer always seems to be that the fat women have tighter wetter pussies than the average skinny women. Can anyone here vouch for that? Since I spoke to these guys face to face I suspect that they might have been trying to justify whale fucking in order to avoid being the butt of jokes, so I am looking for an honest answer via the forum.
I have noticed that fat women are a lot more aggressive when it comes to trying to pick-up guys. I have been hit on by many a porker but I have always declined being the prey. The last thing I need to is to be stalked by a plus-size AW, in fact make that any American woman fat or skinny. Their appetite for vengeance after rejection is unsatiable. I question the motives of any AW who appears to be too eager to fuck because it is not their usual nature. Too many AWs are on anti-depressants and other psycho-active meds.
When in Latin America I find it much easier to accept the women being a bit aggressive. I have always heard sex researchers say that the eyes become wider and the pupils dilate when a woman sees a man that she likes, but I never really saw this physiological reaction until I started travelling to Latin America. One can literally see this reaction as you pass attractive women on the side-walk who make eye contact with you. They really give you a little glimpse of the genuine raw passion on the inside. It is almost like you are engaging in foreplay on the street. You will not have any doubt as to what is going on because they behave like that even when you're not dressed up.
Don't try to make eye contact like that in the US unless you want to get maced or locked up. The only way you'll see some obvious pupil dilation here is by pulling out a crisp stack of C-notes while wearing an Armani suit and a diamond encrusted Rolex.
I tend to agree with the concensus that AWs are not necessarily any friendlier when they are fat. Geographic region seems to have a bigger role in civility, with the Northeast being renowned for loud mouthed rude and vulgar people and the Southeast having a reputation for more courteous friendly folks. Coincidentally, the Southeast has a large proportion of fat people and that may be why fat is equated with friendly.
Economics is another factor in a woman's behavior, not her appearance. European women on average and many other women around the world live a fairly modest lifestyle compared to US or most Canadian women. I would say only Australian ladies seem to live and shop like American women, but at least they are better in the sex department. I have met a lot of extremely attractive women in Europe doing some rather modest jobs, working in a sandwich shop, a teller in a bank(I met one in Germany who was a total knockout who completely digged yours truly :) ), a train usher, hotel desk clerk, flight attendant, these women in modest positions have more class than American women with MD, CPA, Vice President, JD, or Phd behind their names in high powered positions. Economics is largely an issue of power, the more money you have the more you can do in life, and hence the more power you have. In other words women elsewhere are less "powerful" and therefore nicer.
CBGB, what the Hell are you complaining about? You lived in the Northeast (NYC specifically) and found it a hell hole? At least YOU were in a cultural, happening hub of activity, even if it WASN'T the best place in the world, chick-wise. Try living in CONNECTICUT! Hartford was BY FAR, the dullest, unfriendly matropolis I have EVER inhabited! I swear, when I transferred to there from the South, it was like living in the book:"1984" . The place and the women were soulless to the point of seeming like it would suck the soul out of ME! MY high points of living there (IF you can call it that) were the two times I traveled on day trips to NYC. No, I didn't find a single pleasant chick THERE, either, but at least YOU lived in the more POPULAR location of the nation's colon...
I thought I post this long article here since it talks about a couple of things that have been posted in this section of the forum recently (i.e. obesity, economy, etc..).
Never Enough
By Laura Barcella, AlterNet. Posted August 26, 2005.
In American Mania: When More is Not Enough, renowned psychiatrist Dr. Peter C. Whybrow skillfully and sensitively critiques the mess America has made of its consumer culture.
What have we become? According to Whybrow’s scientific and philosophical analyses, we’ve devolved into a nation of overindulging, overstimulated flakes addicted to easy access and instant gratification.
Dr. Whybrow argues that our seemingly interminable quest for more -- more money, more power, more toys, more cars -- has in fact become a form of clinical mania marked by symptoms such as anxiety, depression and obesity.
To avoid suffering a collective mental breakdown, Whybrow implores us to stop focusing on things and instead turn our attention to people -- family, friends and community. It's a familiar refrain, but one that clearly needs repeating: If we are to be happy, Americans must stop superficially striving, and learn to prioritize people over products.
Dr. Whybrow spoke with AlterNet from his office in Los Angeles.
AlterNet: In your book, you write that America's "migrant spirit" plays a key role in the development of our culture's mania. Can you explain that idea for those who haven't read the book?
The idea of American mania is that we are drawn into frenzied activity largely by instinctual strivings. This is very natural, and keeps us alive. But the migrant has this striving to an even greater degree than the average person -- if you think about what it is that drives most of us, it's curiosity, it's self-preservation, and also social ambition. These are the three fundamental aspects of what drives individuals and what drives all market societies.
In America, one of the reasons we find the market so compelling and why we're so good at it is that most of us came from somewhere else. Only 2 percent of the world's population actually moves hundreds or thousands of miles away from where they were born; most people die within 50 miles of where they were born, believe it or not.
We're a collection of survivalists; we're a collection of people who are very curious, very assertive, able to figure out what to do with little, to make the best of things, and so on and so forth.
We've built ourselves this wonderful culture -- this wonderful material pleasure palace -- and we're not quite sure how to stop. We've discovered an aberration of the human spirit a little earlier than most other countries -- but everybody's catching up, slowly.
What do you think is the scariest symptom of America's collective frenzy for more, more, more?
I think the scariest part is that we have not started to question it as a nation. Lots of individuals have started to question it, and that's partly why the book has become so popular. But we have to think through what it is that we're doing to ourselves.
Take food, for example -- instinctually we love to eat ... salt; we love fat. And much of the food that we have available to us contains those things; we just overeat and do very bad things to ourselves.
The same is true in terms of our curiosity for information. We can inundate ourselves 24 hours a day now with electronic systems, and all of these things tend to actually push us to the edge of our sociological tolerance.
People are not supposed to eat all day and take no exercise. It's very bad for the human body, and you eventually end up developing Type II diabetes. And if you don't know how to control your time and the technology in your life, you can rapidly become anxious because you worry that you're missing something.
The other thing which is very evident, though some people don't even see it as a behavioral problem, and which you read about everyday in the newspapers, is that people become essentially seduced into engaging in practices which are not good for them.
I just got an email the other day from a person that'd been caught up in the whole dot-com craziness, and [he had] done some "creative accounting" in one of the companies. He realized later -- when he was caught, and with terrible remorse -- that he'd destroyed his life.
But the idea that one needs more -- which is driven in part by social ambition -- makes many people forget the reality of the world, which is, of course, that happiness doesn't come from just material acquisition, whether that means more food, or more information, or more money. It comes from a totally different source: the way in which you spend your life with other people.
What would be the worst possible outcome if Americans continued down the path we're on right now?
Well, on the individual level, which is the way the book is pitched, we will find a rising level of these sorts of disorders that I was just talking about. But I think the greed that we see will become much more individualistic, and much less socially involved. That will begin to slowly destroy the next generation of people, because the way we learn how to live in a society is from others. And if everybody is totally individualistic, we're not going to learn.
But perhaps even more importantly, [we] will find that the economy will begin to collapse, because the signs are already out there. We are consuming too much; we're going well beyond our ability to finance it. We're the biggest debtor in the world now, and a lot of the world economy is based on American consumerism.
That can't last forever. So one of the most painful course corrections could be something very similar to what happened in the 1930s, only it would happen more slowly at the beginning.
For example, as the housing market bursts -- which everybody is beginning to think will happen soon -- most people who have high costs on their mortgages now will find that their houses won't be worth as much, and they won't be able to afford the mortgage. So there's going to be a major economic crisis in that regard. That could be a course correction that will be painful and very unpleasant for folks.
And what do you think we can do to help people understand that this consumer-mania is dangerous?
First of all, the sort of intelligent information-gathering that AlterNet provides with your website will be very helpful, because I think people do read. Americans are intelligent folks. We're not greedy, if we begin to realize that we're harming ourselves. Just as we did with smoking, we will decide to take a different course. The question is, how painful must it become before that happens?
For some individuals it's already happening. For other people, it will probably take evidence -- within their family or within their own economic circumstances -- that things have changed, before they start changing their behavior.
What I would like to see is a growing movement -- which is starting in some parts of the country -- where people realize that they can actually be much happier by living within their means. One of the ways in which we tend to go to extremes now is by purchasing things that we can't really afford and then we mortgage ourselves into the future.
There are a lot of people who are beginning to say, "You know, I don't really want to work two jobs; I don't think I need that second car." It's starting at the individual level, and once that really begins, then it will take hold.
Just let me say, parenthetically, one of the most important things about this country is the entrepreneurial spirit, and the fact that we're very creative, and we're very willing to take risks and so on and so forth. But we have to preserve that space for the seed corn of our culture, and it can only be preserved if we're prepared to have a social infrastructure that allows people to take risks and doesn't persecute them when they fall foul.
If you have an economy that is so stretched out that nobody has any savings, and everybody is busy working as hard as they possibly can just to pay the mortgage, then that is not the social infrastructure that one needs to maintain curiosity and excitement. I think that we need to do this from the standpoint of the health of the culture, and there are some people who are beginning to realize that.
For example, there's a whole movement in Vermont now to secede -- believe it or not -- from the U.S., because they believe that the lifestyle that we are perpetuating in many urban areas is destructive to the rural life. Whether this debate will go anywhere I don't know, but the fact that the debate is beginning is fascinating to me.
What is the connection there between urban vs. rural life? Do you think that this frenzy is more common and more prevalent in urban centers?
Well, the seduction is greater in urban centers. There are two things that occur to me. One, for example, is the commercial drive. It's all, of course, brought back to Wal-Mart, which happens to be the biggest commercial enterprise for the consumer in the country; in the world.
There's overwhelming evidence now that when a Wal-Mart store comes into town, that although the prices at the Wal-Mart stores are lower, it forces out so many businessmen that the local economy is actually worse off at the end, and the taxpayer is worse off at the end.
Many of the jobs provided by Wal-Mart actually end up being without benefits, so employees end up on the public purse... Somebody calculated that the average person saves $58.48 a year by shopping at Wal-Mart.
Another aspect of how our lifestyle tends to erode our culture is that people are trying extremely hard to keep up -- not only with their neighbors, but also just the two jobs they have.
There's an amazing outbreak of amphetamines across the country that you've probably heard of. It's rampant across the country now. Everybody talks about marijuana being the problem. That's not the problem -- it's individuals who are essentially hijacking their pleasure centers, trying to stay awake.
Those types of erosions will, within a generation or two, have a massive effect upon what I consider to be the crucible of the culture: the stable family and community structures, which enable people to grow up and learn how it is to behave in a normal, balanced civil society. When you begin to get large numbers of people who are addicted to amphetamines or to material goods, this fragments families.
And once the family is fragmented and the community is fragmented, the next generation grows up with no real awareness of what it is that they need to do in order to be happy. So you get onto this strange treadmill situation -- it's even a slippery slope really -- where they fall into something without even realizing it's a genuine addiction.
So for all these reasons American Mania's subtitle, When more is not enough, tries to point out that more of what we're doing is actually not going to bring us what we want.
In mania, what happens is that you shoot right past happiness into this terrible disorganized fireworks display which you have no control over. But happiness lies somewhere behind us.
You can be happy with much less information, fewer material goods, much less of the stuff that we have now. But nobody really looks in the rearview mirror -- they're all driving ahead. In fact, we need to do a U-turn, because happiness lies somewhere behind us, not down the road. More cars, more houses, etc., are not going to do it for us.
In the book you wrote about a cultural and biological mismatch that has been actually making us sick. Could you explain that?
The human genome was developed essentially over millions of years, and the only thing that distinguishes us from most other mammals is that we have much greater intelligence. The rational part of the brain that balances the instinctive part is much more developed in us than it is in other animals. That is our great advantage.
Unfortunately, we have used that advantage to create ourselves an environment, inadvertently, which actually is so pleasurable to the instinctual side of our behavior that we now are doing many things which we're not physiologically cut out to do.
Let me give you an example. People who have the most problems with weight gain here in the U.S. are people whose ancestors migrated here long before the Europeans came. So the people who have American Indian blood in their veins, particularly in South America where the Indian-European mix is greater, are the ones who, when they get onto a high-carbohydrate diet, have much more trouble maintaining normal weight, because they're used to very frugal circumstances.
In other words, their particular inheritance is that they can survive on almost nothing. And so when you then give them a high-calorie diet, there's a mismatch between the environment, their diet, and their genome. The genome hasn't changed.
We used to be in a situation where we would run for our supper and if we caught it, we'd eat it. And we had to wait until the next day [to eat again]. So we were much leaner and fitter before our present environment.
So nothing has changed in the genetics of the human being, but the environment we've created, this extraordinary affluence -- we don't really know what to do with it.
We have no experience with it; we're much better at living with scarcity than we are affluence. So the mismatch is the affluent environment with this ancient genome that grew up under scarce circumstances. Only our intelligence will help us understand how to repair that, because the genetics are not going to change fast enough to save us.
But this propensity for affluence and extravagant lifestyles depends on class, education and where you live. What other factors are involved?
All of those things, I think. The people who are more affluent and have better educations recognize many of these things, and because of their resources they're able to step back from the treadmill. But that's not true of all affluent folks. Many affluent families, in fact, drive themselves because they are highly competitive, and they drive their children in a way that schedules them and makes them "little adults," much too young.
There's a lot of evidence, for example, that anxiety in families who earn over $150,000 a year is much greater in the adolescents than it is in those families that earn the average, about $50,000 a year. So affluence does tend to produce these things, but fortunately many people who are wealthier can avoid them once they become aware of them.
The other problem is people who are not as well off. As you know, America has an extraordinary spread of riches, the broadest spread from the poorest to the richest in the world. The poorer people are those who are much more open to eating a very high carbohydrate diet and taking no exercise, and they're the ones who're getting Type II diabetes and hypertension and all the difficulties which go along with overeating. So I think there is a social difference there.
There's also something of a difference, in terms of the way people live, between the coasts. I mean, [people] in Los Angeles are much more frenetic than [people in] Vermont and New Hampshire, for example, as I try to explain in the book. So I think that where you live does tend to influence demand.
When a lot of people around you are affluent, it's natural human envy to want to be like them. And this tends to be homogenized by the way television has created this whole mythology about how people live, which of course is not the way people really live. But in the urban centers, we're constantly bombarded by advertisements for new cars, new clothes, new cell phones, new electronic gadgets. It's very difficult to resist!
Laura Barcella is AlterNet's front page editor.
I probably wouldn't do too well with women, either, if I still lived with mommy and daddy.
I used to live in the outer boros, hardly the Hollywood image of New York cool, lived in a pretty working class area, and wasn't earning enough money to put up with being a pillar for rich folks. Growing up I actually kept away from the window of the apartment building I lived in to avoid getting hit by a stray bullet. All that art and culture is meaningless when you might not have a place to the sleep the following night. The biggest worry I had was winding up hungry, its a dog eat dog city, heartless and brutal, a third world city in a first world country. The good thing about globalization is that now those of us who want to explore the outside world have a chance, economic opportunities are creeping up abroad all over the planet(particularly South and East Asia, Eastern Europe, and South America).
I'm a new member here, Asian, even though I have a French-sounding handle. Anyway, I'm in the NE US - Mass. to be exact - and it really sucks here. I mean, I'm not even trying to monger or anything, and the attitudes and personalities are pretty much unfriendly all around. Funny thing is, I see a lot of guys who seem right at home with these American women and their mean, cold attitudes. I really can't wait to move out of here. Is it any better in S.California? - cause that's where I was thinking about heading towards. I'm going on a trip to Rio soon. I'll let you know how well I do. Man, this trip is going to wipe out my bank account. It's such a damn shame American women are they way they are.
At giving you enough incentive to get the hell out of the states and to a country where you can enjoy! South America, Europe, Asia, etc. After living more than 5yrs away from US -- I'm never homesick or missing the thunder-thighed,flabby assed, loud mouth, quacking, self-rightous, overbearing, snipey, whiney, bitchy, PMS-every-day American females.
Cyberdas,
I can relate to some of the things that Dr. Whybrow spoke about, not the materialism or the social status part though. You see I really couldn't give a shit about being rich and well known within my community. I am quite content having somewhere modest to keep me dry when it rains and warm when it's cold outside. As long as I can earn a decent enough wage to be able to pay the ex-wife off and avoid getting tossed into prison for default, I am happy as a proverbial clam.
What I do identify with is a drive to get more and more pussy of a higher and higher quality. I can't get enough of fucking beautiful women, just when I think that I have fucked the perfect piece of Latin ass along comes another to prove me wrong. It is not an addiction; it is more like a quest for that perfect gem. While I am here at home I can focus on slaving away at my job without even giving a thought to my next expedition. Abstinence for a few months is not a great challenge for me even though I find some American women physically attractive and maintain platonic relationships with several. I have no sexual interest in them at all.
However, if my passport was to be taken away and I had no means to go hunting for exotic pussy I'd probably die of a heart attack! Anyway, I see a positive side in this, since I do not indulge in AW pussy this means that there is a lot more of it to go around for the guys who do. Everyone wins. As far as, I'm concerned people can continue to impress me with their massive mortgages in the suburbs, their SUVs and their designer clothes. If the economy collapses I'll move abroad and go native. I figure if I'm going to go through hard times I may as well do it surrounded by hot pussy in a warm climate. :D
[url]http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050901/ap_on_re_as/hong_kong_milkshake_murder[/url]
This AW was found guilty in HK of bumping off her millionaire husband with a milkshake and pounding the repairman because the husband butt fucked her. Lucky repairman, unlucky husband, poor wife who will now have to dyke it inside.
Seems Fats Domino got washed away in The Big Easy disaster. Another little piece of heaven vanishes.
postscript: Fats Domino was lost but now is saved. Anyone else remember then Getting Tang saw Mel Gibson's passion of the Christ movie and was converted, for all of about 24 hours?
That's a stiff price to pay for butt fucking an AW. Interestingly enough she claimed self defense. Maybe having his multi-million dollar dick jammed up her ass felt like being attacked with a baseball bat. She didn't mind having the repairman stick his plunger up her ass though.
The sad part about all this is that the guy could have been in Brazil butt fucking eager hot garotas, instead he ended up bludgeoned to death and wrapped in a carpet. If there is one thing I learned about divorcing American women it is that you must get as far away from them as possible before even showing any intention of filing for divorce. Hell hath no rage like a butt-fucked AW.
This is why we must stay the course at the ISG until all of our brothers know that there are alternatives to AW.
A friend of mine got back from a long trip around South America, he had some photos and videos of the women he saw in Costa Rica, when I got a look at some of those beauties I couldn't believe what I was seeing, these women are top rate. I think I might plan a stopover in Costa Rica on my way to Buenos Aires this December.
Geez, having anal with that woman wasn't worth it. He could have had anal with a gorgeous German FKK girl or a pretty garota in Brazil. Or since he is in Hong Kong, he could have done an AMP girl that looks like Lucy Liu anally. He's a millionaire but unfortunately he probably doesn't like the idea of paying for sex like most American men.
Most of my co-workers make fun of that idea and that is why our idea of a prostitute is not a stunning young thin chick but it is the trashy messed up looking drug addict like Courtney Luv dressed like Madonna. You see the difference when you go to a Nevada brothel as opposed to going to an FKK or a Terma. The Nevada women are trashy, old, or fat and the leftovers of women from society. The German FKK ot the Termas are top-notch because the owners know you are paying for that tang.
I was watching the devastation in New Orleans and I it was eery to see that it reminded me of the scenes in Asia after the Tsunami. I was in disbelief that the victims of the hurricane have been all but ignored, looting, children without food or drinking water, c'mon this is the world's wealthiest and most powerful country!! Jesus Christ!!!
CBGBConnisur,
I think you should start a new thread titled "Why I hate the USA". You seem to be obsessed with it.
I remember a few years ago I was working with a group of about 5 Australian software consultants that were on a 6-month project in the USA. Like most Australians Ive met, they were personable, positive, and fun to drink beer with. For some reason I believe you wouldnt fit in so well in Australia. Sure, they had some criticisms of the USA, but no country is perfect. One of their complaints was that local American software consultants were making 2 or 3 times what they made. I do remember how impressed they were with our standard of living - the cars they had, the apartment complexes they were housed in, the shopping, the prices, etc. I remember that one of the girls thought the automatic icecube maker in her freezer was great - she had never seen one before. Maybe I remember that because I could imagine someone from Russia or North Korea being impressed something like this, but an Australian commenting about such a simple gadget that we all have really surprised me. Most of the consultants intended to stay in the USA, mainly because the job opportunities were so far superior to those of their home country.
I did notice Australians get amazed by things we Americans take for granted. The prices of consumer electronics and cars can be astronomical, but at the same time I bought a very comfortable home that would have costed me six times as much in a comparable US locale. I certainly don't dislike America but I do think the current leadership is pretty much ruining a lot of the progress made in the US during the 1990's and I certainly don't like the changes that are occuring there these days. The IT industry in the US today is changing, you have no job security whatsover because of globalization. As far as finding women, Australia is a considerable improvement over the US and Canada, its not Eastern Europe or South America but its a big improvement. If you really think about it, that corporate rat race is all about being able to get a place near a white sandy beach and getting pussy, I have found both to be easy to find in Ozzie.
One of my friends worked at a top company in Silicon Valley, he has two master's degrees, and wound up unemployed for 2 years after the dotcom crash. Last I heard he was an assistant manager of a Dunkin Donuts in Santa Clara.
Who the hell said I hate America? I voted for Kerry who ACTUALLY FOUGHT IN VIETNAM unlike the two draft dodgers in the White House today. People who hate America as in the American people voted for Bush II.
Actually there is a country I HATE, its CANADA, I hate Canadians.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]I was watching the devastation in New Orleans and I it was eery to see that it reminded me of the scenes in Asia after the Tsunami. I was in disbelief that the
victims of the hurricane have been all but ignored, looting, children without food or drinking water, c'mon this is the world's wealthiest and most powerful country!! Jesus fucking Christ!!! It largely solidifies my belief that the US is becoming a third world country.[/QUOTE]From politics to anything, you will cry about it. Same as I was reading YOU voted for Kerry. Let me think this out loud for YOU.
What did Kerry get purple hearts for:
1. Piece of rice stuck in his ass.
2. A little piece of metal that he pushed to have the doctor cut out, something anyone would have taken out themselves.
3. Saved someone's life, NOT EVEN. He heard gun fire and turned his boat around, when the firing stopped he saw a guy in the water.
HOW to leave a war zone as fast as you can, fake something 3 times and get purple hearts for things YOU DON'T deserve.
And YES, I was in the Vietnam war so can say this.
NOW on to New Orleans you dumb son of a B.
They have known of the problem for over a 100 years and the water coming into the
city was who's fault, KATRINA was her name. Katrina Hit on Monday, Still in area on Tuesday and by Wednesday supplies have been coming into the city.
We heard some black man say it was because they are black is why no one is there. Truly amazing, I could see YOU saying same thing.
Lets think this out for you since you don't think well we have noticed.
Black Mayor was first to get out of town.
Black Police
In fact, almost all Black City that knew if a storm like this hit, the city would be gone.
There are other parts of the South that were hit hard also.
SO next time you are about to write something, don't have gum in your mouth, you cant think and have gum in mouth at same time.
Dumb dumb dumb, NO ONE is ignoring them. I wasted way to much time on YOU.
ONE last Question, Have you ever sent money or done anything to help either group. I was in Thailand when it hit for xmas, SO DONT Fucking talk about something you dont know but for watching TV on your chair you fat ass.
Well go to China I have a Fat ASS?? Me? I spend over 30 hours a week lifting weights. I was actually even considered to be the new Superman but a younger guy got it. I could pop your fat head if I placed it between my bicep and forearm. You can stay in China with them "Give me 10 Dolla and me love you long time" dolls. I visited Hong Kong once and didn't like it at all, I don't think I would like a place where people eat cats and dogs and don't believe that people don't have a soul. Anyway I wouldn't feel right about getting with a woman that seems to have a financial incentive.
The area where my mother lives used to be predominantly Irish and Italian, now its Mexican and Caribbean, and the neighborhood is going to hell. When I was there recently, people were blaring their rap, salsa, reggae, and other crud music in the street. I don't got nothing against minorities, but I think they should integrate better. If these people want to live in the US they should speak English and learn to accept our Anglo-European culture, otherwise they are going to create problems.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]You can stay in China with them "Give me 10 Dolla and me love you long time" dolls. .... Anyway I wouldn't feel right about getting with a woman that seems to have a financial incentive.
The area where my mother lives ... When I was there recently, people were blaring their rap, salsa, reggae, and other crud music in the street. I don't got nothing against minorities, but I think they should integrate better. If these people want to live in the US they should speak English and learn to accept our Anglo-European culture, otherwise they are going to create problems.[/QUOTE]
Dude:
1. This is a board about fucking cheap women, prostitutes, skanks, tarts with hearts. Do Ocker skanks fuck you for the financial incentive of money? Or are they all jacked up on smack?
2. Why do you not like salsa and reggae, the music they play in heaven? You think it is crude? Are you happy Fats Domino survived the Flood?
3.In suggesting that Fats Domino "should accept our Anglo-European culture", are you suggesting he abandons jazz for the Ku Klux Klan?
Peace to everyone. I am looking forward to a Prokofiev update.
isn't strange how everything in america comes down to race or ethnicity? when people get frustrated they are always quick to say that it's because they are of this or that race, or they are quick to say that others have problems because they are of this or that race. it is sad that this country is divided. people like to pretend that the divisions don't exist but when there is stress it shows.
at first i was shocked by what i was seeing on tv, the footage reminded me of somalia. the fact that there were people trying to shoot down military helicopters angered me in particular, perhaps because it could have been me on that bird trying to help them and taking fire for it. i have see desperate people fight over our discarded food abroad as we tried to burn it because it was not considered fit for human consumption. it was terrible seeing such things and one never imagines that a similar level of desperation and lawlessness can be reached back home given the right set of circumstances.
after getting over the initial effects of the footage i realized that i was just seeing american society at its worst. the very things that make us successful under normal circumstances act against us during a disaster, namely our individualistic and opportunistic nature, and a sense of being invulnerable. we are the only super power, right?
if you look at the footage you will see that a lot of the people who remained in new orleans were elderly, sick, poor, etc. a few had the means to leave before the hurricane struck but were overly optimistic and chose to "ride it out". then beneath all of this are the wolves among the sheep, the people who stood behind with the intention of taking advantage of the resulting chaos to steal, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] and kill. these wolves exist in all societies and would prey upon the weak if there was a break-down in law and order. let no one assume that this behavior cannot occur in any other metropolis anywhere in the world.
as usual the media and the politicians will exploit this disaster to the fullest extent for their own personal gains. so, i am not surprised that a natural disaster is being given a political and racial spin. the same thing happened among different ethnic and political factions in tsunami struck regions, accusations will abound.
now, lets leave the flaming behind and get back to topic on this board, skanks. with rising gas and heating oil prices aw will no doubt be feeling a bite in the purse and will be looking for some sponsors to give much needed cash infusions for xmas. this could very well turn into a buyer's market for us mongers.
I'm going to throw in with my buddy CB. Although there are some great things about the United States, particularly in past accomplishments, it's state and actions today are an absolute travesty.
The last election validated that more or less half of the country is hypocritical, puritanical, paternalistic, bible thumping, nascar loving, assholes who made a man who has the two dimensional intellect of a public school PE teacher, and his puppet masters to the most powerful men on the planet.
I actually used to be an (economic issued oriented-I've always been pretty much a social liberal) right winger, who made fun of "kooks". I now believe that there is a far reaching conspiracy on the parts of those in power to transfer money into their own pockets. For example (all political posturing aside), a sneaky side effect of the incapacitating Iraq was that it's oil production nearly ceased (economically a reduction in supply). This of course increased it's market price, and put billions into the pockets of other oil producers-Bush friendly Saudi's, and Texas oil concerns for example. Oh, but that must just be a coincidence. Same thing with throwing a war that is catered by Halliburton. Hmmmm.
I'm out of here, as soon as I get a portable income source up and running. I'm sure that some on this board will be joining me.
One last thing-CB may be overstating a bit when he says the US will be a third world contry, but he is on the right track. History validates that civilizations rise and fall. At different periods of time, the people of Italy, Hungary, Great Britan, Turkey, etc would have found it inconceiveable that they would not be the world leaders.
Absolutely lets get back to the topic of this board, which is AW. That is why I made my last post asking CBGB to stop posting irrelevant and consistently anti-American opinions.
So you want to kick the shit out of us neocom pinko faggots for disagreeing with you, eh CBGB? And you represent the small percentage of civilized, educated Americans? Scary. I believe the reason you hate the white/black trash you see on American TV is because you see yourself. You post about the poor English Americans speak but you write that you "would love to kick your asses in real good." You have the English of Shakespeare my friend. Again you´re simply projecting your own shortcomings on other people with the same shortcomings.
Enough of that, lets get back to AW...which still suck.
I happened to meet a girl from Columbia this evening. WOW. She was "muy bonito", and just shy and sweet as you could imagine. If they all look like that down there, I may have to book a trip to South America. Also, I noticed that she looked at 24, like a girl of 16 (is that typical?-I know that American dietary habits and lifestyle rush maturity and aging)
By the way, I made a grammatical error in my last post-an "is" should have been an "are". Happens to the best of us.
i have found that american women are the most reverse sexist women in the world. they think their rep001 doesnt stink; it smells like ice cream. they expect men to pay for the privilege of being in their presence. they have the most rights of any human beings to ever live on the planet, yet they are still unhappy. they believe men conspire to pay them 76 cents on the dollar, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] them, sexually harass them. they think that cooking or doing anything else nice for a man is slavery. so they will refuse to do it. they believe being argumentative and confrontational is what makes a strong woman. they prefer the frat boys, rich kids in bmws, and bad boys while theyre young and in their prime, then when they have 3 kids, sagging breasts, stretchmarks, varicose veins, they expect the nice men they ignored in their youth to come be a surrogate daddy to kids who arent his. american women complain that men are too aggressive in their approach. but if american women actually did their half of the work (initiating a conversation every once in a while or asking men out); if american women knew how to flirt (and meant it instead of flirting for attention then turning the guy down); if american women actually knew how to flirt instead of acting like cowards, then men wouldnt have to jump at the slightest sign of interest.
american women think their sexuality is worth more than men's. i know cause ive been to europe where women exchange sex -in- exchange for sex. here the women want to be impressed with both social and financial status before they will have sex with a man. their ideal man is a rich excon/thug. they dont realize that these two are polar opposites. you hear women saying "i like bad boys", and in the same breath they will say "i just want a man who wont treat me like crap." newsflash, sister. a bad boy will treat you like crap.
basically women dont have any social constraints on their behavior, because that is "oppressive", but it was for the good of everyone that women's behavior was regulated. men have violence, and there are laws against it. women have emotional terrorism, attention-whoring, acceptable prostitution, etc. these can not be legislated against. there must be social constraints against them. american society has convinced women that they are always right; that anything bad is a man's fault. so women will act free to do as they wish, with no consideration for anyone else.
i've come to realize that most american women have a princess mentality. this manifests itself when they need their "attention fix." their parents fully convinced them that they were entitled to everything, and that few men are good enough for what they have. american women will stare at you from across the room, smile, and gawk at you for hours. then when you approach one they will say they have a boyfriend. they will come up to you on a daily basis, rub your arm, smile and say hi. then when you ask them to hang out they will say you got the wrong idea. they will initiate a conversation with you every time they see you for weeks, as if they're interested (yes im aware that it doesnt always mean theyre interested). they will exchange numbers with you and say "call me anytime." then when you call and leave messages they wont answer. they wont call you either. or they will talk to you or date you a few times and you'll think everything's fine. then she will stop taking your calls. the next time you see her she's got her fat nose up in the air, laughing at you, as if she were some highly sought after prize.
since the victorian age, in anglo societies (us, uk, canada, oz, nz), women were put on a pedestal because they were the mothers of future generations. this was a probably a good idea at the time, because up to one-third of women died during child birth. so this inspired men's natural chilvarous nature to protect women. it is ok to put women on a pedestal as long as they are going to adhere to the rules of sexual constitution - not sleeping around. once a woman starts to sleep around, then her sex isnt of higher value than men's. the whole reason for putting women on a pedestal was because they would be mothers and they werent having sex with many men. the moment that women became sexually liberated, putting women on a pedestal should have been eliminated. but unfortunately women still hold onto the old notions that their sexuality is worth more than men's simply because theyre women. so they arent interested in a man who's on their level. no, a normal man is invisible. women want men who are many levels above them. but the women dont want to provide anything in return except for sex. this is in no way an equal partnership if one person brings more to the table and does most of the work while the other brings nothing and does no work.
as a result, women have almost nothing to offer men - except sex. they are no longer women, but instead walking caricatures of men in women's bodies. women are fully convinced of their moral superiority. just try disagreeing with one, especially if your opinion is not politically correct. you will find that you are no longer entitled to your own opinoin. in fact, you're an ignorant bastard, and you'd better change your opinion to fall in line with hers. these women have no problem with nagging, shaming, guilt tripping, insulting, withholding affection, etc to get their way. this is what happens when you convince women that they are always right; that women can do no wrong; that women are the ones who are really 'fair, just' etc.
the whole concept that a man should buy a woman a ring worth two months of his salary is further evidence of how degraded society is and how spoiled women are. in every other society, the father has to pay a dowry for the husband to accept his daughter. in america, women expect some diamond so she can impress her friends. that's fine, but is she going to spend $12,000 on her husband? is she going to put $12,000 down on the house?
i know some guys think certain western women are just as bad as american women. but in europe, being male isnt seen as being a crime as it is here in the states. women will automatically become more materialistic when their nation acculumates wealth (even in eastern countries, women's number one past-time is [b]shopping[/b]). what is not natural is women thinking they are entitled to something just because they're women; that they are morally superior; that they should be catered to; that the man should always pay; that they are entitled to all the benefits of equality with none of the responsibilities and men should treat them in an old fashioned manner while the women snub that role.
i could go on forever.
Tyhiggs77,
There's a simple principle that explains everything that you've noticed. It's called supply and demand. They make the demand, then they supply the pu**y. I'd like to mean that as a joke, but that's pretty much how it works.
Since women in these parts are geberally unwilling to put out, the effective supply of p*ssy is quite low. Since the demand is constantly high, the p*ssy value has to remain high.
Women know this and make full benefit from the situation.
Socially speaking, things are up in the air right now and will likely remain this way for at least a couple more decades. Contraceptive use, female employment, political correctness and the resulting female empowerment have thrown the tradtional genders roles for a loop.
In plain english, that means that women are in a confused, uncertain state while men are pretty much still men.
I disagree with what you said about equal value for sex. Even in Europe, where the situation may not be as bad. Since the beginning of time, men have been giving dick away for free. Therefore, p*ssy will always be "worth" more.
Rock
[QUOTE=Rock Dog]Tyhiggs77,
There's a simple principle that explains everything that you've noticed. It's called supply and demand. They make the demand, then they supply the pu**y. I'd like to mean that as a joke, but that's pretty much how it works.
Since women in these parts are geberally unwilling to put out, the effective supply of p*ssy is quite low. Since the demand is constantly high, the p*ssy value has to remain high.
Women know this and make full benefit from the situation.
Socially speaking, things are up in the air right now and will likely remain this way for at least a couple more decades. Contraceptive use, female employment, political correctness and the resulting female empowerment have thrown the tradtional genders roles for a loop.
In plain english, that means that women are in a confused, uncertain state while men are pretty much still men.
I disagree with what you said about equal value for sex. Even in Europe, where the situation may not be as bad. Since the beginning of time, men have been giving dick away for free. Therefore, p*ssy will always be "worth" more.
Rock[/QUOTE]You are quite correct with your supply and demand explanation.
Pussy is always worth something. I was in Germany for a year. I was not mongering, but I was slutting around to the best of my ability, and I lived with a few different women during that time. I was taken care of to say the least. Many men have no idea how good it feels to have a woman say "I think you need a good woman to take care of you," and the proceed to cook you a good dinner everynight or buy you a good German beer. The only thing I ever had to pay for was half of the price of gas, because the cost of gas over there is higher than it is here. But other than that, I had gfs that were willing to drive me 100 miles out of their way because they knew I had to return my rental car. I never specifically asked for anything. Everything they did for me was voluntary without coersion. All they wanted from me was for me to appreciate them. And it isnt like they wanted me to bring them back here. i actually brought it up with a couple of women. Most of them said no. Of ocurse over there they can milk the system for welfare, kindergeld, child support from the ex, and never have to work a day in their lives. Here, they'd have to work to have the same lifestyle.
When I went to clubs, I'd have women come initiate conversations with me, and 4-5 hrs later we'd be in my room having sex. I met other women who would say "would you like to meet me at club x tomorrow?" or "Can we see [b]us[/b] tonight?" I guess 'each other' doesnt translate well. I would often say, "Sure, you can come over tonight. Just bring me something to eat." They'd bring me food, juice, beer.
If anything, those women were paying me, and not the other way around. My next trip will be to either Romania or Czech Rep.
Tyhigs77,
Amen, brother.
The concept of a dowry has been around almost since the beginning of recorded history. The concept of giving a woman a ENGAGEMENT ring (in the modern context), however, has been around only since Colonial America. If I remember correctly, the ring was insurance against the perceived "devaluation" of the woman if the marriage didn't occur. I could be slightly wrong on this, but not much, I believe.
And speaking of engagement rings, my bud, with whom I now have almost NO contact since his marriage in November, '03, was confronted with (and eventually married) a problem. His now-wife wanted an engagement ring of AT LEAST 1 KARAT! She told him this AFTER knowing that he was paying his ex-wife child support, and that he was up to his eyeballs with other financial obligations. ALSO, when they were dating (she made close to $20,000 MORE than he did at the time) she would expect him to pay for EVERYTHING even though she KNEW of his financial difficulties!! I know one thing; that pussy had BETTER be more awe-inspring than the BIG BANG itself, for him to enter into that marriage KNOWING what was likely ahead for him.
[QUOTE=Deal Seeker]Tyhigs77,
Amen, brother.[/QUOTE]
;) You got that right!
[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]
And speaking of engagement rings, my bud, with whom I now have almost NO contact since his marriage in November, '03, was confronted with (and eventually married) a problem. His now-wife wanted an engagement ring of AT LEAST 1 KARAT! She told him this AFTER knowing that he was paying his ex-wife child support, and that he was up to his eyeballs with other financial obligations. ALSO, [b]when they were dating (she made close to $20,000 MORE than he did at the time) she would expect him to pay for EVERYTHING[/b] even though she KNEW of his financial difficulties!! I know one thing; that pussy had BETTER be more awe-inspring than the BIG BANG itself, for him to enter into that marriage KNOWING what was likely ahead for him.[/QUOTE]Isn't it funny how women claim to be strong and independent until they need something? Women want the best of equality and chivalry. When it comes to the bills, women want men to be chivalrous. But if a man were the ask a woman to make him dinner or stop being argumentative, she'd gladly remind them that men and women are equals now, that she isnt going to cook for him, and if he doesnt like it, it means he cant handle a strong independent woman.
It is my position that American women are simply making the lives of their men unbearable. Men simply dont know how to treat women, and women dont want to be held to any kind of standard. The same standards they hold on men are the same ones they'd never want to be held to.
For example, most women want a tall man -6'1'' or taller - who is muscular. OK thats fine. I dont knock anyone for their preferences (nevermind the fact that less than 20% of men will fall into this category). The thing is, if you are a 6'1'' 225lbs of rockhard muscle man and you make it clear to the average 5'5'' 170lbs American women that you only date woman who take care of their bodies, eat right, and workout (i.e. the ones who are not fat like them), they will call you a superficial jerk. They will say "why cant the inside matter?" blah blah blah. My answer for that is this: Everyone is attracted to the outside first, and from a biological point of view, obesity is not attractive because it signals ill-health. And as for the inside, if the person actually had self-respect, they'd diet and exercise to stay within the healthy range. So their insides are just as messed up as their outside if they dont have the self respect to stop eating junkfood. Their retort? The woman could have diabetes. Sure she could. Adult diabetes is brought on from gorging on sugary foods. So I still have no sympathy. The fact of the matter is that 66% of American women cant have some metabolic imbalance. It is simply impossible. Women just want men to excuse women for their self inflicted problems, but lets assume a man was 5'5'' and 125. That is not a problem of his own creation. Do you think those very same fat women would give a shorter man a chance?
For me, it was only after travelling that I realized that this isnt the natural behavior of women. It is the result of women being above all criticism. If you cant criticize women when they act up, then when women do act up, there's nothing to prevent them. Add this to the fact that women still think they are always right because they believe they have some gynocentric sense of fairness passed down to them from the ages, and the fact that the price of sex is inflated in the states by puritanical and victorian leftover attitudes, and you will see that this is a recepie for disaster.
I think the diamond engagement ring is to show a sign of sincerety and investment in one's future with his wife. It also gets noticed by other men, as a sign that she is off the market.
I had dated a well-shaped young blonde haired lady, college grad and 10 years my junior, who told me she wanted a 3 carat diamond ring for her engagement. My ex-wife called her the blonde bimbo.
The girl would periodically make remarks that we would make a good team, and that she wanted to settle down. She had also said she wanted a BMW convertible. Of course I would not comply with her status symbol demands. Every 6 months or so we would date for a while until her drinking ended in a scene. Then 6 months later I would hear from her, she would offer me her pussy again, and we would date for awhile again. Her drinking and mouth kept me from commitment.
She died a couple of years ago from liver\drinking problems at age 38, still no takers, and single.
Ngp477, her remark: "we would make a good team" really was meant to say by HER: "I think YOU could do well to provide for ME". In your post, it seemed like SHE was the vulture circling YOU, waiting for an opening she could exploit. NOWHERE in your post did you mention what SHE could bring to the table to make it an EQUITABLE relationship. Before marriage, BOTH parties have to work to make themselves presentable to the other in many ways, BUT after the wedding, she can coast and get fat, mean, vindictive, greedy etc. and Society will IMMEDIATELY blame the MAN for the failure of the relationship. I'm sorry for your loss, but that was a disaster waiting to happen.
Thank God that most of us have experience outside of the USA, where it is much more common for the man to call the balls or at least be on equal footing as the woman. I believe that American men, most of whom know little to none about life outside of the USA, strongly contribute to the AW problem simply by putting up with their BS.
[quote=tyhigs77]i have found that american women are the most reverse sexist women in the world. they think their rep001 doesnt stink; it smells like ice cream. they expect men to pay for the privilege of being in their presence. they have the most rights of any human beings to ever live on the planet, yet they are still unhappy. they believe men conspire to pay them 76 cents on the dollar, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] them, sexually harass them. they think that cooking or doing anything else nice for a man is slavery. so they will refuse to do it. they believe being argumentative and confrontational is what makes a strong woman. they prefer the frat boys, rich kids in bmws, and bad boys while theyre young and in their prime, then when they have 3 kids, sagging breasts, stretchmarks, varicose veins, they expect the nice men they ignored in their youth to come be a surrogate daddy to kids who arent his. american women complain that men are too aggressive in their approach. but if american women actually did their half of the work (initiating a conversation every once in a while or asking men out); if american women knew how to flirt (and meant it instead of flirting for attention then turning the guy down); if american women actually knew how to flirt instead of acting like cowards, then men wouldnt have to jump at the slightest sign of interest.
american women think their sexuality is worth more than men's. i know cause ive been to europe where women exchange sex -in- exchange for sex. here the women want to be impressed with both social and financial status before they will have sex with a man. their ideal man is a rich excon/thug. they dont realize that these two are polar opposites. you hear women saying "i like bad boys", and in the same breath they will say "i just want a man who wont treat me like crap." newsflash, sister. a bad boy will treat you like crap.
basically women dont have any social constraints on their behavior, because that is "oppressive", but it was for the good of everyone that women's behavior was regulated. men have violence, and there are laws against it. women have emotional terrorism, attention-whoring, acceptable prostitution, etc. these can not be legislated against. there must be social constraints against them. american society has convinced women that they are always right; that anything bad is a man's fault. so women will act free to do as they wish, with no consideration for anyone else.
i've come to realize that most american women have a princess mentality. this manifests itself when they need their "attention fix." their parents fully convinced them that they were entitled to everything, and that few men are good enough for what they have. american women will stare at you from across the room, smile, and gawk at you for hours. then when you approach one they will say they have a boyfriend. they will come up to you on a daily basis, rub your arm, smile and say hi. then when you ask them to hang out they will say you got the wrong idea. they will initiate a conversation with you every time they see you for weeks, as if they're interested (yes im aware that it doesnt always mean theyre interested). they will exchange numbers with you and say "call me anytime." then when you call and leave messages they wont answer. they wont call you either. or they will talk to you or date you a few times and you'll think everything's fine. then she will stop taking your calls. the next time you see her she's got her fat nose up in the air, laughing at you, as if she were some highly sought after prize.
since the victorian age, in anglo societies (us, uk, canada, oz, nz), women were put on a pedestal because they were the mothers of future generations. this was a probably a good idea at the time, because up to one-third of women died during child birth. so this inspired men's natural chilvarous nature to protect women. it is ok to put women on a pedestal as long as they are going to adhere to the rules of sexual constitution - not sleeping around. once a woman starts to sleep around, then her sex isnt of higher value than men's. the whole reason for putting women on a pedestal was because they would be mothers and they werent having sex with many men. the moment that women became sexually liberated, putting women on a pedestal should have been eliminated. but unfortunately women still hold onto the old notions that their sexuality is worth more than men's simply because theyre women. so they arent interested in a man who's on their level. no, a normal man is invisible. women want men who are many levels above them. but the women dont want to provide anything in return except for sex. this is in no way an equal partnership if one person brings more to the table and does most of the work while the other brings nothing and does no work.
as a result, women have almost nothing to offer men - except sex. they are no longer women, but instead walking caricatures of men in women's bodies. women are fully convinced of their moral superiority. just try disagreeing with one, especially if your opinion is not politically correct. you will find that you are no longer entitled to your own opinoin. in fact, you're an ignorant bastard, and you'd better change your opinion to fall in line with hers. these women have no problem with nagging, shaming, guilt tripping, insulting, withholding affection, etc to get their way. this is what happens when you convince women that they are always right; that women can do no wrong; that women are the ones who are really 'fair, just' etc.
the whole concept that a man should buy a woman a ring worth two months of his salary is further evidence of how degraded society is and how spoiled women are. in every other society, the father has to pay a dowry for the husband to accept his daughter. in america, women expect some diamond so she can impress her friends. that's fine, but is she going to spend $12,000 on her husband? is she going to put $12,000 down on the house?
i know some guys think certain western women are just as bad as american women. but in europe, being male isnt seen as being a crime as it is here in the states. women will automatically become more materialistic when their nation acculumates wealth (even in eastern countries, women's number one past-time is [b]shopping[/b]). what is not natural is women thinking they are entitled to something just because they're women; that they are morally superior; that they should be catered to; that the man should always pay; that they are entitled to all the benefits of equality with none of the responsibilities and men should treat them in an old fashioned manner while the women snub that role.
i could go on forever.[/quote]
tyhigs, as a fellow [i]niceguy's forum[/i] member let me be the first to welcome you here. you'll find that a lot of these guys have also become "unplugged" from the "feminatrix" :)
I would like to add on something to Rock Dog's assumption. If you guys have ever noticed the media, TV shows and ads in the United States you can see how Americans are so obsessed with blond women. It seems that so many American men want their women to be blond. Even blacks, asians and hispanic women are dying their hair blond and it seems that blond women have the highest value in America even if she is ugly and fat by world standards. Suprisingly many Americans see women with 150 lbs with proportional height as ok.
Besides that, I would like to touch on the very sensitive racial issue. Every men of all races wants to date and fuck a white women, so the value of white women in the USA goes up like the price of gas over time. So many guys want them even the heavyweights. No offense here, I'm not a white person myself.
In addition, white American males can date asian and hispanic women are dying to sleep with them. Many asian women want to date white men so their offspring can be light skinned and climb the social ladder. I also have noticed how hispanic women also trip over themselves to date white men. They also want light skinned offsprings and a chance to climb the social ladder. Light skinned Hispanics also generally discriminate other dark skinned hispanics. Its all about supply and demand in different categories. My hyphothesis may not be true in all cases, but I think generally this is how it is.
[QUOTE=Rock Dog]
Socially speaking, things are up in the air right now and will likely remain this way for at least a couple more decades. Contraceptive use, female employment, political correctness and the resulting female empowerment have thrown the tradtional genders roles for a loop.
In plain english, that means that women are in a confused, uncertain state while men are pretty much still men.
[/QUOTE]
Well said RD. Glad someone has finally made this observation. We are in the early stages of a profound sociological upheaval. I doubt there has ever been anything like it before. The changes overwhelmingly advantage women, and they are not reacting very well, especially in the US.
The new reality for women is in exact opposition to their most basic biological instincts. They are blundering around and lashing out. Us guys are pretty much just along for the ride. Decades is a conservative estimate of how long before a new equilibrium develops.
[QUOTE=hardbarg]Well said RD. Glad someone has finally made this observation. We are in the early stages of a profound sociological upheaval. I doubt there has ever been anything like it before. The changes overwhelmingly advantage women, and they are not reacting very well, especially in the US.
The new reality for women is in exact opposition to their most basic biological instincts. They are blundering around and lashing out. Us guys are pretty much just along for the ride. Decades is a conservative estimate of how long before a new equilibrium develops.[/QUOTE]You are largely correct. When women become educated and hold higher paying jobs, they are 4 times as likely to divorce their husbands as a woman who has only attended high school. This is simply because they dont need the husband around and because American women have been trained to be ever more demanding than is reasonable. Plus they think a man is going to make them happy, be their white knight/prince, and solve all their problems. After they have kids, these women realize that they're no happier than they were before, and they blame the husband for this.
At the lower and middle socioeconomic levels, it is the institution of child support and welfare that enables women to choose the cads. (Note: I am not saying men should not support their children). If women knew they would never get welfare for those illegit kids, they would think twice before they had sex with the excon/thug/badboy/biker. She wouldnt get a dime for the support of those children. She would be forced to find a decent man to take care of her.
The same goes for child support. If women knew that if they decided to leave the marriage that they couldnt take the man's money with them, then many women simply wouldnt leave their husbands.(70-80% of divorces are initiated by women for any given year) Giving women child support (which is really adult support because it is a percentage of the man's income, not one-half the actual expenses of the child) gives women the incentive to leave men - she can cash out - especially knowing she IS going to get custody.
Women's financial independence, child support, and welfare undermine the role of the father. For more information: [url]http://www.mugu.com/cgi-bin/Upstream/Library/Amneus/garbage/index.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Tyhigs77]
The same goes for child support. If women knew that if they decided to leave the marriage that they couldnt take the man's money with them, then many women simply wouldnt leave their husbands.(70-80% of divorces are initiated by women for any given year) Giving women child support (which is really adult support because it is a percentage of the man's income, not one-half the actual expenses of the child) gives women the incentive to leave men - she can cash out - especially knowing she IS going to get custody.
[/QUOTE]
As long as the laws and the courts are skewed in favor of women you can expect them to continue acting like bandits. A few simple changes can end their foolish behavior. One such change would be to tie the woman's compliance with visitation to child support. No visitation for the man = No child support or alimony for the woman. Women who deny fathers court ordered visitation with their kids should be thrown in jail in the same manner that fathers who default on child support are thrown in jail.
What is needed is true equality, not radical feminism masquerading as equality between men and women. Women have welcomed the benefits of having the same opportunities as men while refusing to let go of the benefits of traditional gender roles. They have decided that they can have their cake and eat it too. So far, most men are too afraid to tell women that they cannot simply choose to have the best of both worlds with none of the responsibilities. A growing number of men have realized that women will not give up their perks under the current system. Therefore, they have decided to avoid marriage and having kids. This may force some sort of reform in the distant future if enough women realize that men are no longer to play the role of breeder and financier to increasingly unattractive women.
[QUOTE=Moore]Thank God that most of us have experience outside of the USA, where it is much more common for the man to call the balls or at least be on equal footing as the woman. I believe that American men, most of whom know little to none about life outside of the USA, strongly contribute to the AW problem simply by putting up with their BS.[/QUOTE]Firstly introductions are in order,I am a CANADIAN,living in Cebu,Philippines.I wanted to point out that American women who grow up overseas generally do not share this attitude.I personally know many American women who were born and RAISED in the Philippines and Thailand.They realized very early if they were competing against Locals,they had to improve their attitudes.My good friend in Malaysia is married to a Thai born American.She runs a stable, Always cooks great Thai and American Food and gives her husband regular massages after a long day at the office.She complains other American women are too self centered,spoiled etc.This is what growing up in a third world male dominated country can do.So there are great American women out there,but unfortunately many of them live OUTSIDE the United States
My two favorite types are Latinas and Eastern Europeans, I'm not fond of Asian women at all who I know for a fact look at Western men as meal tickets and walking VISAs. That is the same central issue with American women, they are looking for a guy with cash, a long time ago I was stuck in a really bad job and this AW really liked me a lot, it paid me good money but I hated the job, I was talking with a friend about quitting and becoming a bartender/bouncer, this AW heard me and immediately she started getting less friendly. I guess she realized I wasn't going to become some hot shot executive. An Asian woman will always accept a present if I offer it, in fact they expect them.
Speaking of presents, a lot of European women I met don't like it if I offer to pay for a meal or buy them something, they think its as if I am trying to buy them, most American women I knew had no problem with getting presents and most expect them. Just to illustrate, last fall, I met a beautiful Bulgarian brunette who loved to cook, and wanted to buy her a nice set of cookware. She turned away my present politely and said I didn't need to bother. Believe it or not a lot of the European women I have met wanted me to move to their home countries, so immediately I figured out that they weren't in it for a green card, even many EE types are like this. Even some women I have met in South America are like this, they are confident in themselves and are content enough with their lives.
Regarding the "safety net" allowing women to chase after the cads / thugs / losers that make them drip wet, instead of making more reasonable choices in men. An interesting thought is that although Europe for the most part also has a very developed "safety net", that behavior doesn't seem to be so prevalent there. Possibly it is just because the "bad boy" behavior isn't fetishized there like it is here.
That site you put up is interesting too-"The pathology of the female headed household" (I haven't read all of it yet-just skimmed). Although I am no neocon asshole shilling "family values" (obviously from a few posts back), I absolutely agree with this type of thinking. My rationalle is simple-When I was growing up in the late eighties, the biggest "train wreck" of a potential screwed up life was the kid whose father was out of the picture (substantively rarer in those days). It was a simple matter of the fact that he became bigger than his mother at age 12, and she couldn't discipline him. Consequently, he ran wild, and last I heard, has been in jail at least a couple of times. I cringe when I think of this situation repeated over and over and over with "babies mamas". This is of course weak anecdotal evidence, but still.
CBGB,
You are correct about Eastern European and Latin American women being more likely to be content with a man moving to their country to live. My favorite Latina girl has told me numerous times, "Amor come stay with me. I know that you would not make a lot of money here but we will be together, and I will be happy even if we'll only have beans to eat."
I have been a bit stubborn in wanting to work elsewhere for another year or two because I think that a little more cash might make my relocation a bit easier and more permanent. However, I always wonder if my delay might end up causing me regrets in the future. She always tells me not to put myself at risk for the sake of money.
Me Mek Lover,
It's true to some degree that the blond is most in demand in the US, but that is due mainly to the fact that blondes are used heavily by the media in marketing. White women still constitute the majority of females in the US and hence it is not surprising that males of all races seem to be fucking them. I don't think that minority males are turning down minority pussy in favor of white pussy. If you ask black, asian or hispanic guys why they chose a caucasian girl they will often tell you that they were not getting anywhere with women of their own race. Black women in particular are know for getting hostile with black guys who date white women. However, if that same black guy that they happen to be bitching about went up to them and asked them out on a date they won't give him the time of day, or even night for that matter. It's just typical AW bullshit. I have heard the same from asians and hispanics while living in the Mid-West. It doesn't make sense to me but how many times have women made sense to you?
There are also a lot of cute black and hispanic girls who would not give nice decent white guys a shot at that brown sugar. I remember sitting next to this hot big titted Latina on a flight from Florida to Latin America, her name was Esmeralda. We got into a conversation and she told me how she ended up immigranting to the US and buying a house in a predominantly white neighborhood in Florida. She said that she didn't have a man because she spends most of her time at work and at home. I asked her what about the people she met at work and in her neighborhood? Then she said that she had never dated a white man. I asked why? She just said that she wasn't interested, so I decided to leave it at that. Anyway, I couldn't help but think how this smooth cinnamon skinned beauty with soft doe eyes, black silky hair and an ample bosom was letting it all go to waste over something as silly as the color of a cock. However, one must respect other people's sexual preferences, though I can't help but wonder if one day Esmeralda will change her mind and release herself from her sexual frustration.
As for Asian and hispanic women wanting to have kids with white men in order to have light skinned children who will climb the social ladder, they must not be very well educated otherwise they would know that there are only two things that really help with climbing the social ladder in the US. These two things are lots of money and a little education. The more money that you have the less the education will matter. If they don't believe me they can come down South and visit the trailers parks filled with white people living on welfare.
Cheers,
Chocha
I've just had a thought. We were discussing things that would make gender relationships bearable in the United States. I have long maintained that one of those things is the legalization of prostitution-basically take away women's ability to dictate terms by which man can receive pussy, as quality ass would be reasonably priced and freely available. What I was wondering is what the behavior of American Women is like in the parts of the US that border places were prostitution is legal (Seattle, San Diego, Detroit, etc). If there is an effect, this could prove my hypothesis.
[quote=Chocha Monger]Black women in particular are know for getting hostile with black guys who date white women. However, if that same black guy that they happen to be bitching about went up to them and asked them out on a date they won't give him the time of day, or even night for that matter.[/quote]
[b]@ Chocha Monger:[/b]It's not the [i]men[/i] that they want; it's the [i]attention[/i] being shifted away from them. Again, typical AW acting like a five year-old child.
[b]@ BART9000:[/b] I think I may have some insight to your question. As I have mentioned some time ago I used to work in San Diego some years ago. I can tell you from experience that a guy who wouldn't get the time of day from women in his own hometown could go to S.D. and practically become a [i]pimp[/i]. These girls were (and still are) getting big competition from Mexican Latinas south of the border.
It wasn't just the working girls, either. The culture on the other side of the fence was a little different (i.e. the women actually acted like [i]women[/i]), and the AW knew they had to approach the game with a whole different attitude just to compete. They actually had to work a little harder to get your attention than they would almost anywhere else. They'd [u]never[/u] admit to any of this but it was pretty obvious to everybody there. It didn't help matters (for the AW's) that S.D. is, like most major West Coast cities, an international melting pot; in addition to Latinas they had to compete with Filipinas, Hmongs, Vietnamese, etc. Not to say it was some sort of Utopia, the AW's still acted like entitled skanks; but they definitely felt the heat of competition in San Diego Bay so they weren't nearly as bad as in other parts of the U.S.
[b]@ BART9000:[/b] I think I may have some insight to your question. As I have mentioned some time ago I used to work in San Diego some years ago. I can tell you from experience that a guy who wouldn't get the time of day from women in his own hometown could go to S.D. and practically become a [i]pimp[/i]. These girls were (and still are) getting big competition from Mexican Latinas south of the border.
It wasn't just the working girls, either. The culture on the other side of the fence was a little different (i.e. the women actually acted like [i]women[/i]), and the AW knew they had to approach the game with a whole different attitude just to compete. They actually had to work a little harder to get your attention than they would almost anywhere else. They'd [u]never[/u] admit to any of this but it was pretty obvious to everybody there. It didn't help matters (for the AW's) that S.D. is, like most major West Coast cities, an international melting pot; in addition to Latinas they had to compete with Filipinas, Hmongs, Vietnamese, etc. Not to say it was some sort of Utopia, the AW's still acted like entitled skanks; but they definitely felt the heat of competition in San Diego Bay so they weren't nearly as bad as in other parts of the U.S.[/QUOTE]My point exactly Imagine American Women living and working in Asia.Latin America or Europe.With competition,they have adapt and change their ways or end up with totally zero dates,lovelife etc.If you see the women at the American Club in Hong Kong or other places,their attitude is totally different.Having lived in Asia for over 15 years in Thailand,Malaysia and the Philippines,you can see the difference in their attitudes.For example the country Manager of Philip Morris arrived with his girlfriend and sent her packing back to the states in 1 year,An Aussie diplomat who was my neighbour ended up divorcing his wife and marrying his secretary.Competition does wonders for attitudes
Canadian and British women are the two nationalities that are actually worse than American women, in some ways American women balance out because of the large African American and Hispanic female population. I have found women from both groups tend to be less egotistical than a white American female. Canadian and British women are horrible period. The British deported their best looking people to Australia hence Australians are stereotyped as athletic, energetic and charming.
Alas!
It's true. The women here are pretty bad. In fact they are so bad I've had to invent a new term to describe them.
First, there's heterosexuals.... the majority who are interested in a normal relationship with a member of the opposite sex.
Then we have homosexuals.... same thing but with members of the same sex.
So what could one call these women who only seem to want men when it benefits them? What to call these out-of-shape, short-haired, business suit wearing blobs who have lost the feminine aspects of their sexuality? I call them hemi-sexuals.
A hemi-sexual woman is one who has lost touch with her natural feminine sexuality due to the social changes that have been going on for the last 30 years or so. She often knows what she doesn't want, yet seldom knows what she DOES want. This leads to a lot of time spend complaining about stuff and very little time spent effecting a solution (such as self-improvement).
Hemisexual women can easily be spotted by their attire (business suits), attitude (bitchy) and looks (fat ass, fat arms fat stomach etc.) In much the same way a chicken's wings are no longer capable of sustained flight, the hemisexual womans' atrophied female sexuality is no longer capable of sustained normal relationship with a male partner.
All is not lost however, as populations of normal fully sexual women are thought to still exist in the unspoiled regions of eastern europe, south america and africa.
Rock
CBGB,
Was intrigued by your views of Canadian and British women.
I've found that women from Montreal at least are quite friendly and generally more than OK in the looks department. As far as the rest of Canada, I agree with your observations.
In regard to British women, I know that many guys share your views. I've been to London, Manchester, Liverpool and Wales and have had a lot of success for some reason. Manchester, in particular, was full of eager and approachable women. I would be interested in what the guys out there think of British women in particular.
British chicks are sort of manly and they love a good ass fucking complete with donkey punch.
French canadian women are an exception but the rest of the Canadian female population is plain horrible. In terms of economics, Quebec is the poorest of the major provinces, its also the most difficult to immigrate to.
As far as Australian women a lot of them are actually of Irish heritage, and look more Scandinavian than British. The Irish ones usually have straight blonde hair while the British have brown hair which is a bit wavy or curly. In fact, flying on Qantas one brown haired flight attendant was clearly British and she was masculine looking, I ran into another who was a Patsy Kensit lookalike and a complete babe.
British women? Yuck. Fat like American women only they dress funny and have bad teeth. Not quite as bitchy, though.
And yeah, I lived there. I hated it. Bad food, overcrowded, horribly expensive, warm beer, bars close early, rains all the fucking time.
I have been mongering in most places in the world including our backyard and these are the average prices for paid sex for a half hour session converted from their currency:
USA (Nevada Brothels): $300-$5000
UK:$200
Canada: $120-$150
Holland: $100
Germany FKKs:$50-$80
Czech Republic Sex Bar: $40-$50
Brazil Termas: $25-$66
Dominican Republic Casas: $12-$50
Thailand AMP:$8-$33
Hong Kong AMP:$25-$125 (plus negotiable "tips" ranging an additional $40-$80)
Mexico "Massage" Parlor: $80 FS
Brothels are a great yardstick as to the attitudes and cockiness of the regular women. We see the countries with the lower cost pussy has the women with better attitudes while you look at the US and you see the highest prices which means the bitchiest women. What makes a Nevada brothel worse is that they can make their own prices because you have to negotiate with the woman for the price before doing it. I have been quoted $5000 from a stuck up model-looking ***** to $200 from an old hag. That also means that they are much less willing to touch cock than foreign women. I mean, $50 is almost like a fair exchange for cock for pussy and you could be old and fat while in an American brothel they charge you more for being fat, old, short, another race, atc.
In the same way, American women have become "hemi-sexual". I see this as a lean toward "homosexual" or lesbianism because they don't like to have sex with men with their feminism. They have become uninterested in sex and much more interested in money and how much of it they can milk a man for it. Women in Germany see pussy as a fair exchange for cock as reflected in the $50 instead of $300. They won't jack you for more money if you are fat, Asian, or old. This price range is reflected in the regular women. These women in countries with affordable pussy are much more approachable than American women. In Germany and Czech Republic, I was able to look at a woman's cleavage without getting maced, a dirty look or a mean comment but she smiled at me for being interested in her. The prices also reflect how much of a prude they are. The more expensive the prices, the less willing they are willing to touch cock. A $5000 price feels like an "Eeeewwwww" response from a woman while something under $100 feels like an "Oooo" response" if I were to ask them for paid sex.
Darkseid,
American women view cock handling the same way that people view garbage handling, it is not something fun to do but it can pay fairly well. Fucking a man must rank high on the list of the World's Dirtiest Jobs for most American women. They demand a premium for touching those "dirty dicks" and if you want them to suck it that will cost you more.
I know women who make 60K per annum in good jobs but they still go out to bars in search of someone willing to pay the rent, car note and credit card debt in return for lying there like a dead fish while he huffs and puffs away. The typical response to the thought of a butt naked man on top of them sweating as he humps away is "eeeeeew". Mention cock sucking to them "eeeeeeeeew"! Yet still these women want a man who loves to "go down". They seem to think that it's a treat for a man to suck on their nasty smelly sweaty yeast infected cunts. They don't realize that if they had to pay a man to DATY they couldn't afford it.
The perfect man for an AW is one who has tons of money, pays for everything, never wants to penetrate her with his penis, and enjoys licking her **** every night after she's had her vodka and tonic.
Darkseid, prices in big US cities are even higher than $500US. A good escort in a big US city can easily cost you $1000. Up until the fall of the US dollar an hour at the most exclusive Australian brothel costed about a $140US, there are some women near King's Cross, who are 9s or better that offered me 2 hours for a 100 Australian(about 75US dollars right now), still a bargain compared to US women. There was some poster here who said Australian prostitutes are more expensive than US ones, not in my experience. Frankly I thought the fellow who mentioned it is a naive idiot who's never dealt with an American working girl.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]French canadian women are an exception but the rest of the Canadian female population is plain horrible. In terms of economics, Quebec is the poorest of the major provinces, its also the most difficult to immigrate to.
[/QUOTE]I went to Quebec (Montreal) every year from age 17 to age 21 during the summer months to meet women. I found them to be more feminine than AW, and they werent afraid to let you know they were interested. They were more straightforward. Those women really know how to flirt when they like you, and it's unmistakable.
The things that kept me from moving there were the cold and the fact that I'd have to learn French.
But even so, they are still feminists there, too. But the dating and sex game is better for men.
Was over a friend's house the other day and asked where his wife was since it was 11 pm and we were all hanging out. He said we are separated now and she is staying back at the mothers. Sounded kind of strange since he does not monger, drink, or do anything to give a woman an excuse to complain about. He just works alot to pay off the new house. Last time I was there she was watching all the HBO programs- Sex in the City, The L word, like they were going out of style.
Now they got married a year ago. Big fancy wedding, ring, honeymoon to exotic locale, etc. Asked what's up with that? (the separation) he said rite after the wedding the sex really tailed off and she became distant. So now they are getting divorced.
Oh yeah now she is a citizen since she is from a country in Central America. He says that don't have nothing to do with it since they are still friends.
I always avoid those types, Visa hunters, I would be pissed, but its clear stupidity to give a foreign woman a golden ticket to the USA, after which she will take advantage of the ultra feminist laws and throw you away like a can of beer.
[QUOTE=Mike12] Last time I was there she was watching all the HBO programs- Sex in the City, The L word, like they were going out of style...
Now they got married a year ago. Big fancy wedding, ring, honeymoon to exotic locale, etc. Asked what's up with that? (the separation) he said rite after the wedding the sex really tailed off and she became distant. So now they are getting divorced.
Oh yeah now she is a citizen since she is from a country in Central America. He says that don't have nothing to do with it since they are still friends.[/QUOTE]
It sounds like your friend made the usual mistakes:
1. He married in the USA.
2. He married a woman that had more to gain by marrying him and nothing to lose by divorcing him.
3. He forgot that the fastest way to kill a woman's sex drive is by marrying her.
4. He allowed her to sit on her ass being brainwashed by the skanks on "Sex In The City" while he wasn't getting any sex in the city.
Your friend sounds like he would be a woman's dream husband in Central America, and that is the point exactly in CA not in North America. Even if she didn't plan on marrying for her citizenship, she certainly began to feel as though she could be doing better after watching all the spoilt skanks on TV living the life.
I know a guy who married a girl from Central America so she could get her papers. It's working out for him so far, she is legal and he gets to fuck some decent pussy everyday. However, he's up to debt in his eyeballs from two previous marriages to AWs and pays hefty child support and alimony. His wife from CA has to work to make ends meet and knows that she will get nothing in a divorce except some debt. I thought that he was nuts to get married again until I realized that he has nothing to lose because the chick can't have kids so that even rules out child support.
Something that probably warrants some discussion is the effect of the media in creating the attitudes that most of us find reprehensible.
I watched the new "Transporter" movie the other day. It featured some interesting subtext with a character who was the father/breadwinner, being portrayed as a semi-bad guy (although he is redeemed in the end), featured the sexy young wife throwing herself at the sexy bad boy.
I thought that was really interesting coming out of a movie created (by a Frenchman no less) to entertain young males.
I think you should make a dictonomy between aw raised overseas and ones just visiting, working.
I used to work in japan. there are many aw there, but they would never try to improve themselves relative to j-women or even learn the language etc.
Instead, they stop having sex, go out to eat with guy pals and girl pals, ***** about american men dating japanese women.
There is no change except an embitterness that no one likes them or even talks to them.
one thing people don't understand, aw will never change even overseas, they would rather just go into asexual mode, I don't think aw really like sex that much anyway, become fatter and bitchy and chaulk up the local culture as "stupid" or something. I noticed new zealand, aussie wouldn't ***** so much about this.
Darkseid:
Interesting observation between prices and the attitudes of girls in certain countries. By the way, I take it that you are Asian due to the comments you made about German providers being fair regardless of whether one is old, fat or Asian, otherwise you just pretty much insulted this group of people.
Well, I hope that they remain fair by not increasing prices next June due to the World Cup championship.
After reading all these horror stories,I thought I would share a Happy Ending.A Belgian friend of mine was unhappily married to an American Woman who he met at Cornell,He is the resident manager of a resort in Malaysia.His wife was cheating on him.So he hired a private detective to get evidence.Then he quietly closed their bank accounts in the US and moved their money into Malaysian bank accounts.then he suddenly CONVERTED to Islam and filed for divorce using the evidence of her adultery.Under the Shariah Law,She got NOTHING,since Shariah law applies to Muslims.He got custody,since she was an adulteress and to add insult to injury,she filed a case in the US.But She was told they did not have jurisdiction in Belgium or Malaysia to enforce her claim.Since He has no plans of working in the US,She will not a get a penny for the rest of her life from his six figure income.and He lived happily ever after
sorry, but the application of shariah law does not offer justice for the fair sex. to me, the law should be equal, regardless of whether one has a y chromosome. just read below.
sharia stoning sentence for nigerian woman
just this week, an appellate shariah court in northern nigeria upheld a "death by stoning" sentence against a woman for having sex outside marriage. the case of amina lawal, the 30-year-old nigerian woman sentenced to death, should raise grave concerns about how islamic law is used in nigeria and in other countries to brutalize and subordinate women. no country that values human dignity and the equality of all its citizens can afford to have a legal system in place that endorses discrimination, torture, and cruel and inhuman punishment. immediate reform of the aspects of shariah that deny women equality under law and in practice is needed.
combined with local traditions, the effect of such verdicts is to make women afraid. a public sentencing sends a message to all women: that if they step outside the strictures of shariah, they, too, can expect a painful and ignominious death. if she loses her final appeal, ms. lawal can expect to be buried up to her chest and stoned to death, leaving behind three motherless children. but countless other women in nigeria will fear for their own lives as a result.
shariah need not be bad for women. throughout the world, muslim women want to live observant lives with human dignity and respect for their rights. many muslim women i know and work with are faithful muslims and categorically reject the abuse of shariah to sow their oppression.
in saudi arabia in march, at least 14 girls may have died unnecessarily in a school fire because of extreme interpretations of the islamic dress code. members of the committee for the promotion of virtue and the prevention of vice interfered with rescue efforts because the fleeing students were not wearing the obligatory public attire (long black cloaks and head coverings) for saudi girls and women. also in saudi arabia, women's testimonies in court are equal to half those of a man.
a woman in pakistan who has been raped and wants the state to prosecute her case must have four muslim men testify that they witnessed the assault. absent these male witnesses, effectively the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] victim has no case. equally alarming, if she cannot prove the [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] allegation, she runs a very high risk of being charged with fornication or adultery, the criminal penalty for which is either a long prison sentence, including public whipping, or, though rarely, death by stoning.
the application of shariah is not limited to criminal matters, but in some countries some aspects of shariah also govern civil matters. morocco's "personal status code" (the mudawwana) is one example. under it, women are treated as legal minors and denied legal autonomy to conclude their own marriage contracts. this code establishes male authority over female family members, requires women to obey their husbands in all matters, and sharply limits women's -- though not men's -- access to divorce. moroccan law further discriminates against women in the marriage process by allowing men to have up to four wives simultaneously.
there will no doubt be significant and vigorous disagreement about whether the above examples are faithful interpretations and applications of shariah. while this is being debated, millions of women living under shariah contend with laws and practice that make a mockery of international human rights protections and endanger their lives.
there are varying interpretations among islamic jurists about whether these applications are correct, but they are grossly unfair to women, antithetical to human-rights principles, and should be reformed.
how do we protect vulnerable women in countries like nigeria where a radical interpretation of shariah is being enforced? the international community must pressure governments to reform criminal laws and strengthen secular justice systems so that the rule of law applies across society. civil societies must be strengthened, and local women's groups that are pushing for reform should be supported. the u.n., european union, and other multilateral bodies should redouble their efforts to support long-term projects that improve women's legal and other status.
the u.s. identified the restoration of afghan women's basic rights as one of the principal goals of ousting the taliban. this must be a goal not only for afghanistan, but also for the other parts of the world where the growing power of discriminatory law, including certain interpretations of shariah, is a pernicious and chronic threat to women's very existence.
The worst kinds of AWs will be found on the campuses of prestigious US universities. One woman I met at Columbia, I cursed her out when we broke up, this was while I was spending time abroad and realizing that men even in other Western countries don't put up with the same kind of shit that happens with US women. There is no even playing field between men and women in America, in fact if a woman commits a crime chances are that she will get away with a lighter penalty, look at Martha Stewart or that Susan Smith, I recall Stewart's equivalent Bernie Ebbers is going away to the bighouse for a really long time, Stewart is out and now has her own show. I also recall the story of the sicko school teacher who seduced her student, if this was a male teacher doing the same to a female student, the guy would have been hung by his balls. I don't condone any of the above sociopaths and their deviant behavior, but the fact is that the system in the US seems to forgive women very easily.
The best thing is to try to live in another country if you want to maximize your chances of meeting attractive women and sleeping with them. With the measly two weeks that most American workers get, its hard to travel abroad. The only people that will have the time and money to explore destinations overseas are the ultra rich. I have met people from Western Europe and here in Australia that I completely envy because they live quite well and get to travel around the world, especially the guys, they get opportunities for meeting some rather stunning hotties because of the more generous vacation times. Aussie women compared to a woman from a developing country might be seen as arrogant but if you compare them to North American women they are total pushovers, Australian guys tend to be very chauvinist, and I have known that many spend their vacation time in Asia or other locales chasing skirts, so it reverberates back to the Sheilas. The same thing happens in Europe to a bigger degree, since the Soviet Union fell there have been millions of EE women pouring into Western European countries, and I have seen rather average guys with some real stunners on the streets of Europe, some of these guys are just average looking with incomes that would be very modest by US standards but they are getting the kind of pussy that only Brad Pitt and his ilk get in the US. Its a supply and demand scenario but its also dictated by how the males behave.
Even British guys, while British women suck, they can easily hop across the channel to the continent, in fact, while I have been traveling around Europe, almost 8 out of ten native English speakers seem to be from the UK, as they easily outnumber Americans like me and Canadians. This kind of gives me an advantage as I am seen as this exotic and mysterious Indiana Jones American while the Brits are looked at like a bunch of soccer loving boobs, its so amazing so see Eurobabes fall over me like I'm some kind of hotshot even though I am just a regular guy.
Cebu Local,
Your story about your friend was great. It's good to know that there are guys out there thinking outside the box and out-foxing worthless AWs. It reminds me of those greedy AWs that marry wealthy Arab men thinking that they've hit the jackpot. Then after moving to the guy's country they suddenly discover that they don't get half of everything in a divorce, and the kids stay with the father so no child support either.
These women the return to the US bawling at the State Department and basically expecting a war to be fought on their behalf. If they were not so greedy they would not have been blinded.
I've often thought that if I ever got married to a AW (god forbid) I'd have a WORLD of secret escape paths ready ON THE SPOT if need be: secret accounts (possibly even overseas), secret places of residence, and a slow transformation of lifestyle that would be apparent (for her "benefit") to show that the effect of her behavior is slowly draining my finances (while the money is slowly being transferred to an account of MY choosing). The last matter would accelerate her disinterest in me and thereby hasten her exit, since she would see there is nothing worth pillaging.
If you get married in the US, and have hidden bank accounts, you will end up committing perjury in the divorce process. That's a serious felony. Just something to think about.
But fuck the US. I'll never go back.
[QUOTE=Dickhead]If you get married in the US, and have hidden bank accounts, you will end up committing perjury in the divorce process. That's a serious felony. Just something to think about.
But fuck the US. I'll never go back.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I've thought about that, BUT I would NEVER have a personal account in my own name that was meant for emergency situations such as my escape. In that respect, if she wanted to come after my PERSONAL account, she could HAVE the pennies it contains. As a "show" of relinquishing to her "what's hers" (what she feels she DESERVES) I'd gladly give up some token assets that would appear to leave me destitute so she can do her victory dance. After she celebrates and the party tent is wrapped up, I go on about my life FAR AWAY from her and enjoy a new life while she never hears from me EVER AGAIN. The idea is to erase my existence as best I can. "Out of sight, out of mind".....
It just goes to show you how much the system is stacked against us.
Women want equality.... as long as it doesn't cost them any of the unfair advantages they currently have over us.
In principle, I don't mind the idea of paying alimony/support payments. However, it's this whole open-ended thing that pisses me off. Where did this whole idea come from that we have to keep on paying forever?
If men were to get together and become politically activist in the same way that women have been for the last few decades, we could probably undo a great deal of the damage.
A few good ideas....
Arbitrated divorces. ie. No more laywers goading separated couples into long and costly legal battles.
Pre nups that hold up.
Time limits on alimony based on time married, who initiated the divorce etc.
Rock
(aside from the years of rejection after being heartlessly exploited) was actually in a strip club (don't ask me why I thought of this at 3:30 in the morning). There is a gigantic one in Chicago which I used to frequent before I discovered p4p. After spending way too much time and money there, I came to discover something. While the Latina's, and EE's, (there was only one Asian girl and I wasn't into her big fake tits) were almost a sure bet for some very mild extra fun (copped feels, sucked nipples, being fingered etc) in the back room, MOST of the homegrown AW's had a policy of putting on a big show to sell a dance, and then once they got you hooked, doing in some cases the absolute minimum possible (in a grindy club, some were even like "I'm just eye candy for you". ) I remember telling one beautiful Polish girl "some of the other girls tolerate having their nipples sucked on....you actually encourage it!!!!" It was very telling.
[quote=Bart9000](aside from the years of rejection after being heartlessly exploited) was actually in a strip club (don't ask me why I thought of this at 3:30 in the morning). There is a gigantic one in Chicago which I used to frequent before I discovered p4p. After spending way too much time and money there, I came to discover something. While the Latina's, and EE's, (there was only one Asian girl and I wasn't into her big fake tits) were almost a sure bet for some very mild extra fun (copped feels, sucked nipples, being fingered etc) in the back room, MOST of the homegrown AW's had a policy of putting on a big show to sell a dance, and then once they got you hooked, doing in some cases the absolute minimum possible (in a grindy club, some were even like "I'm just eye candy for you". ) I remember telling one beautiful Polish girl "some of the other girls tolerate having their nipples sucked on....you actually encourage it!!!!" It was very telling.[/quote]
Heh, I know what you mean, Bart. I found out by serving in the Navy for a number of years. With the homegrown AW's I could never get the time of day, and this was the case ever since I was born. On my first overseas deployment, however, it was a completely different story; I must have had a different girlfriend every month. I never changed anything about myself, yet I was suddenly appreciated by the fairer sex. This was true in every country regardless of socio-economic level with the exception of one (the U.S., of course). In fact, it seemed that I was not the only one to notice, because nearly every servicemember I knew had a similar experience.
Smut Villain,
What countries were you deployed to? Are there any that you remember, excluding ChingChongLand, being above/below average for picking up good short term girlfriends? Although Ive travelled alot, I usually only spend a few days in a country, which is usually not enough time. Besides, living in Argentina, everyplace seems like a step down in terms of women. But I would like to broaden my horizons and take some longer trips next year.
joined the Army Reserve-just missed going into Gulf War I by a split training arangement, and spent two glorious summers training at Fort Dix,NJ, and Fort Benjamin Harrison, IN (It was paradise I tell you). To think, that I could have known 13-14 years ago what I know now!!!! Dad was Navy too. He tried to tell me but......
[QUOTE=Moore]Smut Villain,
What countries were you deployed to? Are there any that you remember, excluding ChingChongLand, being above/below average for picking up good short term girlfriends? Although Ive travelled alot, I usually only spend a few days in a country, which is usually not enough time. Besides, living in Argentina, everyplace seems like a step down in terms of women. But I would like to broaden my horizons and take some longer trips next year.[/QUOTE]
After 10 years of deployments the list runs a bit long, so I'll just get right to the point.
I've had success in [u]Norway[/u] (of all places!) If you are into blonde Scandanavian "goddesses" then you can't go wrong there, plus I found them to be quite approachable (an "average joe" couldn't get within 10 feet of these babes in the U.S.) [u]Denmark[/u] also rocks in this regard.
[u]Mexico[/u] is one of my all-time favorites, but not just for mongering. If you stay away from the tourist traps and venture a little outside of the red-light districts you can find some surprisingly nice women (of course, the further away from the border the better the quality IMHO)
Despite what some of the nay-sayers tell you about CBGB's claims, [u]Australia[/u] is top-notch when it comes to meeting women; very nice females, and very aproachable. CBGB is not out of his mind - I've seen first-hand evidence of a lot of his claims.
I know you didn't want me to mention any Asian locales, but I must include [u]Hong Kong[/u] in this list. The [i]fastest[/i] pick-up I've ever had in my life occurred there; I met a girl in a club (Neptune's? I forget the name) and went to bed with her [b]30[/b] minutes later! :D
[u]Fiji[/u] was also good for some fast pick-ups, but I had to look [i]hard[/i] for anything I'd consider getting naked with.
I also recommend [u]Nova Scotia[/u] for some action. Halifax was [i]very[/i] good to me (someone said it was because there were too many homosexual men there, but I'm not so sure that's true - don't believe everything you hear)
I almost forgot - [u]Spain[/u] deserves a toast. I had a wonderful time in Rota (wink wink).
As you can imagine, every return trip to the U.S. was a disappointment to me after visiting ports-of-calls like these. At times I wished I could stay on deployment forever. I did notice that in most of the "good" ports where prostitution was legal, the non-pros exhibited a slightly better attitude. I still wonder if there was a connection?
I have seen quite a few Asian women in this region of the world but for some reason I just don't find them interesting. Smut Villain's rundown of places is pretty accurate, I don't think anyone can go wrong in places like Spain and Norway, although Norway is kind of expensive for tourism. The reason why pros and nonpros might be better in these areas are complicated, usually I think its more due to the fact that feminism and women's liberation is weaker in these places, there is also less economic activity and opportunity so women might be more eager to enter sex work than in the States.
I met an Argentinian woman in Spain, and Dickhead is one lucky Joe to be surrounded by these types of women. Dickhead, when you were mentioning machine gun toting police, are you sure you were talking about Argentina, or was it Brazil? I have been to Rio a couple of years ago, its pretty dangerous but the chicas make up for it.
[QUOTE=Sun Devil]Darkseid:
Interesting observation between prices and the attitudes of girls in certain countries. By the way, I take it that you are Asian due to the comments you made about German providers being fair regardless of whether one is old, fat or Asian, otherwise you just pretty much insulted this group of people.
Well, I hope that they remain fair by not increasing prices next June due to the World Cup championship.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I am an American born Asian guy and proud of it but life as one has been made harder by negative stereotypes accepted mostly in the East coast such as us being barbaric and eating dogs and cats, us having small peckers, and us rushing people for seats on the subway. I experience these stereotypes less in the west coast or midwest. In fact I did an experiment in Match.com or Yahoo Dating.com where signed in as an Asian guy in the territories of New York and Las Vegas and I got more hits in Las Vegas than in New York. This goes to show how nasty big city East coast AWs are versus Midwest.
Also statistically there is a much greater divorce rate in the big cities such as LA, Boston, and NYC than in the sprawling communities and this has a lot to do with the city's economy. In NYC, you need more money to even exist or breathe than you do in the Midwest. Finances has a lot to do with AW's greed and divorce rate. AWs in the big cities expect to meet a guy who will pamper them because they think by moving into the big city, they can meet a Donald Trump but 90% of the people are struggling average Joes like myself trying to make a dime to "Survive- paying rent, eating and paying tickets earned from these ridiculously strict New City Major Bloomberg laws while not being able to afford entertainment". They marry people like us disappointed and end up divorcing us and try to squeeze what's left of our wallets and then some because they are angry that we are not Donald Trump. Notice that there are less AWs that stay in the Midwest than ones that move into the city. The ones that move into the city are brainwashed into a more glamorous life of the big city. Once they move there, they find themselves struggling and desperate to make ends meet so some end up becoming escorts for the Girl next door type brothels that charge $200 an hour until they can find some sucker to marry.
The ones that stay in the Midwest are the ones that are satisfied with the simple country life (except for Las Vegas where you have the best of both worlds- a big house in a sprawling community and the wild LV Strip life). They don't need to find a guy who is loaded because in the Midwest you can live on half the salary you need for the big city where everything costs double. My older brother is happily married to a girl from Ohio who moved in with him in Philly while I am still stuck here with greedy scavengers of AWs that have alterior motives.
Also I noticed that the better priced independent women are the ones from Europe, Canada and Asia and even ones from the Midwest. The European and Asian ones charge $150 to $200 an hour. The ones born in small towns work in agencies charging $200 to $300 and hour while the New Yorkers and assimilated New Yorkers charge $500 and up. How greedy can New York women be!! The best source for looking up these independents are the New York City Escort Magazines found in newsstand. You'll see what I am talking about with the prices. Also the women change almost every month because they are in the business for the short term so it is imposible to review each one of them. I had done a woman name Liz who was a great lay with BBBJ but no longer works in the business. She worked from her apartment and said that she wants to make enough money to go home to her parents in Wisconsin because she just lost her job and spent all her savings on rent, food, and other living expenses. She no longer is listed in the sex guide. My old sex guides are no good and have to keep buying new ones each time I feel like doing it.
I spent most of my time in New York since early childhood, people in the Northeast tend to be arrogant and nasty no matter what you do. I can tell you that it really doesn't matter what you are in New York because no one gives a shit regardless of what your race or ethnicity is, I experienced some reverse discrimination for being white in a primarily non-white part of the city. I remember an elderly schoolteacher neighbor of mine was taunted by a large group of black schoolchildren, who called her an old fart and all sorts of nasty things, she happened to be born in Scotland. I spent a lot of time in the South, around Atlanta, and the people there are a lot friendlier than Northerners, the Midwest, Rocky Mountain region, and the West Coast is better too, the company I worked for transferred me to Australia, and I have been here ever since, decided to remain permanently.
I lived in Philadelphia for a while, I thought it was a dump, but unlike New York people would give you the time of day, but still it was a cold place not easy to meet people. Of course if you wore a NY Giants sweatshirt around the now demolished Veterans Stadium, you would get your ass handed to you. Tried to look for work in San Diego and Denver, my two favorite places in the States, but no dice.
[quote=darkseid]Yes, I am an American born Asian guy and proud of it but life as one has been made harder by negative stereotypes accepted mostly in the East coast such as us being barbaric and eating dogs and cats, us having small peckers, and us rushing people for seats on the subway.[/quote]
People still believe this shit? Damn, people are fucking ignorant!
[quote]lso statistically there is a much greater divorce rate in the big cities such as LA, Boston, and NYC than in the sprawling communities and this has a lot to do with the city's economy. In NYC, you need more money to even exist or breathe than you do in the Midwest. Finances has a lot to do with AW's greed and divorce rate. AWs in the big cities expect to meet a guy who will pamper them because they think by moving into the big city, they can meet a Donald Trump but 90% of the people are struggling average Joes like myself trying to make a dime to "Survive- paying rent, eating and paying tickets earned from these ridiculously strict New City Major Bloomberg laws while not being able to afford entertainment". They marry people like us disappointed and end up divorcing us and try to squeeze what's left of our wallets and then some because they are angry that we are not Donald Trump.[/quote]
Too damn true. I guess it's all those "Sex in the City" reruns...
[quote=CBGBConnisur]The reason why pros and nonpros might be better in these areas are complicated, usually I think its more due to the fact that feminism and women's liberation is weaker in these places, there is also less economic activity and opportunity so women might be more eager to enter sex work than in the States.[/quote]
CBGB, I'd never thought of that angle but maybe you have a point. Personally I always thought it was due to the laws of supply and demand: here in the States a man has to jump through a million hoops just to get a chance at some pussy (unless he pays for it), and for various reasons the "price" for a piece is always subject to ever-increasing inflation. In these other countries, however, a man can always get some on the side with no hassles if his lady isn't treating him right, and the women darn well know it. "Devalued" pussy does not make for an effective weapon/lure so the women usually have no choice but to step their game up a bit and drop the attitude.
BTW, the West Coast absolutely [b]rocked[/b] for me (esp. San Diego). I can't wait to return one day.
[QUOTE=Smut Villain]People still believe this shit? Damn, people are fucking ignorant!
Hey, that's NOTHING compared to what I heard from a buddy who went to basic training at the same military installation I did (Ft. Dix). He told me a guy in his platoon asked a drill sergeant with a honest, STRAIGHT FACE: "Drill sergeant, is it true that black people can run between raindrops"? When I heard that shit, I laffed so hard I almost pulled an abdominal muscle! Now THAT is ignorant!
I happened across a porn site featuring amature Aussie girls-since a couple people brought them up. PM me for it.
can someone tell me more about these scandinavian babes? how tall are they really? what type of guys do they prefer? would you marry one?
it's funny cause if any of you keep up with the reports from norway and sweden, you can see that those two countries are a hell of alot more feminist than america. for example, laws mandating that 40% of all top level executive positions be filled by women, calling for the elimination of marriage because it is "men enforcing slavery upon women", requesting that men sit down while they [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord111][CodeWord111][/url], taxing the entire male sex because 1% of men are [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127][CodeWord127][/url]. the list goes on.
i think american women were taught to hate men. it is so ingrained into their collective psyche that they dont even realize they blame men for all of their problems. so i wonder how super-feminist countries like norway and sweden escape this.
or maybe it goes back to the whole victorian attitudes that still havent dwindled away in anglo societies: that women's sexuality is virtually priceless, while men's sexuality is worthless. thus giving women power simply because they have vaginas.
also wanted to note that when i was about 19, i met a swedish girl in one of my classes. she was about 5'9'', thin, and blonde. she was the most kind girl i had ever met (in the us). she would go out of her way to help me. the only time she ever refused to assist me with anything was when she had a previous obligation, namely class.
i honestly didnt realize how special she was while she was still around. she had to go back to sweden because she was a "study abroad" student. she wrote me twice once she got home, but i didnt think much of it cause i figured i'd never be going to sweden anyway.
now i wish i had her back. she's probably got 3 kids by now though. oh well.
come to think of it, all of the foreign women i've met in the states have been good to me. from the fulbright scholar from belgium, to this swedish girl, to polish, russian and ukrainian women. it is a good thing living in an area with many immigrants.
my senior year of high school, we had an exchange student from i believe denmark. as i recall, and to my very young, socially stunted perception, she behaved remarkably like the bitchy, unapproachable "look at me, i'm the center of attention" american girls she fell into the popular clique with.
i really like the concept of devalued women's sexuality by the way. prior to reading things like this forum and some of the links that show up here, i never even thought about questioning the bullshit victorian construct that "being forced to sleep with a man who is not chosen as a lover, hurts a woman's precious delicate sexuality"-i'm referring to working as a prostitute, not [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url], which although exploited and politicized is a crime of violence. yes, for example some women hate doing it, and have horrible screaming nightmares about it, but then i have them about my job once in a while too.
tyhigs77,
scandinavian chicks tend to be pretty tall and slender, i have screwed some as tall as 5ft 10 in. as for their preferences, i'd say that they would fuck any foreign guy at least once. they tend to be very sexually curious and i have seen them hooking up with ruff looking rasta men in the caribbean. in fact, i have even heard that they pay these men for sex. would i marry one? hell no!
while swedish women don't hold back when it comes to sex and pussy on the first date seems to be the norm, they are hardcore feminist and not known for sexual fidelity. think of them as american women minus the bitchiness, obesity, sexual blackmail and greed. they tend to be very opinionated and stubborn, but at least their feminism is honest. men are not expected to pay for their meals on dates.
as can be expected, in any society where women seek to be as men certain problems arise. swedish chicks fuck around a lot just like the men do and i think this results in sex that is nowhere close to the hot passionate sex experienced with latinas. so you get easy but somewhat bland sex. i am not sure if it's due to the feminism but there are a lot bi-sexual and lesbian women. most swedish girls have tasted **** at least once.
what i am pretty sure is due to feminism, is that you'll find a lot of young women on anti-depressants undergoing therapy for recovered memories of being raped during childhood. i hesitate to believe that there are that many [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127][CodeWord127][/url] and ****s in such a sexually permissive society.
many of the youths have drug and alcohol problems, in spite of the fact that alcohol is so tightly regulated in sweden. the women don't really need to squeeze guys' nuts for cash as the socialist government gives them more than enough free handouts. they don't seem to actively hate men as in the us, but feminists are... well feminists.
Eastern European women in my experience are the best, it is true about Scandinavian women being opinionated and bitchy in the long run. I have friend who was married to a Swedish woman, and she was nice in the beginning but turned out to be a *****. Eastern European women grow up in cultures where they have less, and they are brought up with having less of an ego than in Western countries. They do things that most modern women in Western countries won't, its a behavior trait only found in Asian women these days.
Hey, don't forget about Dutch women. I found them to be as good looking as Scandinavian women, with the same body type, but did not have the bitchy attitude. It was easy to hook up with them.
During my recent trip to Europe, I canceled my plans to go to Paris and stayed in Amsterdam for an additional week because I was scoring so easily.
A friend of mine who went with me, who is 6'8", banged a Dutch chick who was 6'2". According to him, it was difficult for her to meet guys taller than she is and she was attracted to him essentially because of his height.
In my trips to Amsterdam, I did find it very easy to even score with Dutch chicks taller than me. I am a 5'5" Asian guy and I hooked up with a Dutch girl who was 6'1" because I have incredible athletic breakdancing and dance talent. She was with a group of friends and was the only attractive chick who didn't have a boyfriend in the group. Her friends took a liking to me and I got the "tribal approval" to join their group. When the night finished, I escorted her home and paid for just the cab ride to her place and it also costed me 2 drinks for her and that night I got some. The Dutch culture in itself is very liberal and accepting unlike the conservative and less tolerant big cities in the US. I guess it is because of the marijuana in the air they breathe that makes them jolly and sexually promiscous. I wish marijuana was legal here in the US!
As for Asian women, I find that most of them are good except the ones born in North America (US and Canada) and Hong Kong (they're just like big city American women but without the obesity).
Paris is a waste of time for a guy wanting pussy, its an expensive place to visit, and if you cannot speak the language, the women there who are very culture conscious will snub you like anything. The place is dirty too, I sat on subway over there a few years back and noticed some black soot on my shirt. On another note, I successfully obtained permanent residency in Australia so now I never have to return to the sexually repressed USA. I get a whopping 8 weeks off a year that gives me the time to see the world versus a measly 2 back in the States.
"The reason why pros and nonpros might be better in these areas are complicated, usually I think its more due to the fact that feminism and women's liberation is weaker in these places, there is also less economic activity and opportunity so women might be more eager to enter sex work than in the States." (posted by CBGB)
I'd disagree with statement as far as Norway, based on my experience of living there. This is possibly the most feminist, and women liberated country in the world. Women have so many rights it is almost laughable. Fully paid child-care, full health benefits, government covered trips to the Canary Islands to recover from rheumatism. Tons of family leave vacation, and payments, if your child is sick, etc. Most women have wages equal to men for the occupation. To be fair men have some pretty good benefits as well-- although the tax rate is extremely high. The government pays for much this off its oil revenue, plus the small population of the country.
Despite its feminist, highly educated, women, most of you guys would love Norway if you visit from the USA. The women all incredibly beautiful-- tall, blonde, and smoking hot. Most are very open to one night stands, and have fun personalities. The sex is always good. Most love to drink and party.
This creates and interesting question-- why are feminist Norwegian women beautiful, sexy, like to flirt, have warm personalites, and are not conceited, while American women are very often fat, stuck-up, and very full of attitude? Both are quite feminist.
My best thought would be:
1. Eastern Euro women have given Norwegian women much competition in the dating game. Therefore Norwegian women have no opportunity to get stuck-up or the guys head for Russia, Poland, Estonia, etc.
2. Victorian, puritanical values don't really exist here.
3. Men are just much more chauvinistic here then in the USA, maybe its the Viking blood. The truth is the men and women are generally happier for it. This issue is kind of complicated, because while women are very feminist, stong gender roles still exist in my opinion. Men enjoy behaving like caveman, and women have fun playing the role of sex kitten.
4. The average Norwegian women are just so much more healthy, lean and sexy, so obviously they are going to be a lot of fun, and enjoy sex.
Would I marry a Norwegian women-- yes.
just some random thoughts,
stay cool,
nb
Like I said economics is less of motivation in these countries since key needs are handed to these women by the government.
NB, you should deal with some of the Bit*ches I have dealt with in New York and you will know what I am talking about. Australians come from the same Victorian society as most Americans and Canadians, but brothels and RLDs are a common fixture in most major urban areas down under. There is even a brothel traded on the stock market here.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]There is even a brothel traded on the stock market here.[/QUOTE]
Don't invest in that stock. It's in a bare market.
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]Tyhigs77,
Scandinavian chicks tend to be pretty tall and slender...Most Swedish girls have tasted **** at least once. They don't seem to actively hate men as in the US, but feminists are, well, feminists.[/QUOTE]A lot of prejudices in your views I must say. Living in Sweden I can tell that most woman will not go to bed with you on first date but you have no trouble finding one that will if you want to. Go out and party and look at the lady next to you when the bar closes and see what might happen.
About the feminist thing I can say that right now there started a feminist political party. The have som funny persons and ideas. They want to ban marriage and also claims that a woman who live with a man is a sex traitor. I dont think they will last very long. They get a lot of media attention as media is obsessed with feminism just as the political class. The more coverage they get the worse for them. Everyone can see that they are nut cases.
I sometimes wonder if American women realize that part of the reason why the divorce rate is so high in the US has to do with their attitude and the way they treat their men.
When a guy goes home, after a hard day's work, and finds a lazy, obese, uncaring woman who continually bitches about everything and rations out the sex like it is a reward to be given for good behaviour, it is a sure-fire recipe for making sure that her guy will look for action and consolation elsewhere.
Speaking of bare, there are plenty of bare breasts on Bondi beach. Recently riding on the monorail in Sydney I saw two Australian blondes making out with each other, they were bisexual(not the man hating bull dykes found in the USA/Canadashithole, still a few bulldykes exist in Ozzie but most of them get disgusted with the redneck mentality here so they go to faggoty little England like Germaine Greer), and saw me noticing them and they got wilder, it was a nice show. Australian guys complain about the women here but they are a bunch of spoiled fuckwits. Why? They get cheap airfare to Thailand and other parts of Asia where they can get away with treating women like human doormats for a 20 dolla!!! So their standards are much higher than North Americans. One of my old girlfriends here, she used to do my laundry for me, wash dishes, and fill up the ice cube trays because I don't have an automatic one(actually I do its just sarcasm), clean up the house, things that most American women are too good to do because they are above manual labor.
Okay guys, I just received some big news, and I could to really use some perspective on it, possibly from people who have been there before.
For most of the summer, I have been dating a very cute college student from Russia. She is in the United States on a summer work visa. She is a language student from a university in Russia. We have had a great summer, she is a lot of fun, and the sex has been incredible.
Well, summer is over, and now it's time for her to go back to school, but, as you may have guessed by now, she doesn't want to. She told me just today of her intent to stay in this country for at least a year. She knows that getting a visa will be a big problem, and it sounds to me like in her mind she is prepared to stay illegally if necessary. Where I live in the United States, there is annually a large contingent of foreign students that come from Russia and other countries in that part of the world. From what I understand, it is rather common for a small percentage of them to stay in this country after their work visas end. (And with US immigration policy being what it is these days –i.e. Mexico- from a legal aspect, it doesn't seem to be a big problem for them.)
What I’m mainly concerned about is the legal aspect for me, and the personal aspect for her. We have not exchanged “I love you’s”, but I'm pretty sure that's how she feels. I'm afraid I can't say the same about her, although I do care for her deeply. When I asked her why she came to this decision, she told me that I was a part of the reason. But more significantly, she said, she really just doesn't want to go back to her country. She has talked with friends through e-mail, who have already returned, and they tell her of the despair they feel upon returning to Russia, how they miss the United States and the lives they had there. One theme she consistently hits upon is the lack of freedom for her and her female friends in Russia. She tells me that in America, she can do whatever she wants, go to the clubs, spend the night with her boyfriend without society or her parents, giving her shit about it. I know this is a somewhat simplistic outlook, I'm just trying to explain where her mind is. From where she sits, right now, her life in the United States is better than it ever was in Russia, probably with or without me.
At this time she is working at a restaurant at the oceanfront and seems reasonably content with the work and the people she works with. Some of her Russian friends have tried to talk her out of this idea by asking her what will she do in America for work. To work in a restaurant or be a housekeeper forever? She is aware of this quandary, but in her youthful outlook (she’s 20) she chooses to see only the great potential for life in the United States. Her English is okay, but it's not great by any means, and I doubt that she could pass the language exam for university here.
When we first met back in June, I thought what a great situation this was: a relationship with a predetermined end-date! Three months of sexual bliss, a tearful farewell kiss at the airport, and then back to my normal life. Certainly, I was not expecting this. As a seasonal romance, it could not have been better. Three months is about my limit for relationships anyway. She is a great girl, but not in a marriage sense, and certainly not at this point in my life (I’m 29). So for her to tell me that she wants to stay now is totally fucking things up. She hasn't told her parents yet, and the flight she was scheduled to take back to Russia is still three weeks away. Of course, I feel bad because she is dropping out of school to stay in the United States. Would she have made the same decision if I were not in the picture? Hard to say.
So now for the questions: What to do? Should I break-up with her now in the hopes that her sorrow will drive her home into the arms of her friends and family? Should I count my blessings and enjoy this lovely girl and delicious piece of ass to keep me warm this winter? Should I be concerned about being in a sexual relationship with a potential illegal alien? On this note, I should tell you that we are not, nor do we have any plans, to live together. Along those lines, what rights do non-citizens have concerning paternity and other domestic issues? I'm extremely careful during sex, rubbers every time, but God forbid, if she should become pregnant, would the paternity burden be placed on me by the state, just like with a citizen? (I really don't get the feeling that she is deceitful and would try to get pregnant intentionally, but then again, true deceit is by its very definition difficult to determine. Nonetheless, my sperm goes down the toilet every time.)
Above all, I don't want to be caught in any legal trap, nor do I want to be the cause of this sweet girl ruining her life.
Anybody been here before?
Any and all responses welcome, however incendiary.
Dude, I wish I were in your situation, but with the climate as it is today, you could be facing some serious trouble by harboring an illegal alien. The words "Patriot Act' would be more than enough to discourage me from continuing with that situation. I don't wanna seem cynical, but her story struck me as suspicious. LOTS of Russian honeys end up back in the Motherland and tough it out in the conditions you described. Why did she not mention the possibility of renewing her visa or something similar along those lines? She already has a contact in the US (you) therefore, some of the groundwork is already laid out if you wanna bring her back. I'm not chiding you, but I think this magnificent piece of ass has slightly clouded your judgement and you may be on the road to being replaced IF you were successful in legally getting her to stay longer. Beware of the Dark Side, young padawan!
That's the thing, SM, I don't believe that I am harboring her, at least in the legal sense of the word. As I said, she's not living with me - she pays rent at her apartment at the oceanfront. I'm just boning her, she spends the night at my place maybe once a week. Also, she is first trying to legally stay here, I only mentioned her illegally overstaying her visa as a possible scenario. She has not asked me for help in extending her visa, nor would I offer it if she did. Like I said, I'm not looking for any legal entanglements for me, nor am I even remotely considering marriage.
A) Rubbers are not a long term birth control solution as the effectiveness rate is just not that high even when used conscientiously and properly. At least 10% failure rate over a one year period, I think is what you can expect.
B) You get her pregnant, your life is ruined. Paternity laws vary by state but in most cases you will be on the hook for child support even if she gets thrown out of the country.
C) You say she is not marriage material.
D) Break up now to avoid any semblance of culpability in this decision that she has to make for herself.
Your legal culpability is zero if she overstays but that ain't the point. She is exhibiting typical illogical and dangerous chica thinking and so must be cut from the program.
Best of luck to you.
A factor that I have been considering in the causation of problematic behavior if AW is their treatment in childhood. From what I have seen and heard, in most other countries , sons are revered, favored, and viewed as an asset. Daughters conversely, are TOLERATED, and viewed as a liability (in some cases this can be extreme like China, where I understand, female newborns are sometimes killed). Conversely, here in the US, we seem to have a mentality of "Daddies little princess", where girls start learning around age 3 or so that they can manipulate Daddy (and by proxy all men) into giving them anything that they want simply by virtue of being female. They learn it, they know it, and they come to expect the world (as provided by men) to revolve around their desires.
Sorry LS, I've got nothing. One thing that may be interesting is for you to assert that you might go back to Russia with her. This may provide additional insight into the situation.
LS,
If you were to knock up this incredibly hot piece of Russian ass, the law would be equally harsh in your judgement regardless of her being a non-citizen or citizen. There is no discrimination in the eyes of the law when it comes to paternity. The child would be a U.S. citizen and the judge would make sure that his/her rights to child support are respected. Your child support payments would be quite hefty if the mother were to enter illegal immigrant status because then she cannot legally work in the country. Therefore the court would hold you liable for 100% of support. The age difference and her legal status would encourage a female judge to burn your ass for being what she would consider a predatory male taking advantage of young naive foreign pussy.
How would a pregnancy affect her situation? It would help her a lot, since she would be able to claim considerable hardship to herself and her child if deported. Even if a hard-ass immigration judge were to order her deportation after the child was born, the child being a U.S. citizen cannot be deported leaving you potentially as a single father.
At the moment you're way ahead of the game. There is no pregnancy. However, if you continue ponying her things can change really fast. She has the means and the motive. Maybe, you might want to help her see the big picture. She can go home when her time is up demonstrating to the U.S. government that she respects its laws and by doing so greatly increase her odds of getting a visa to visit or work in the future. Or she can over stay her visa and become a fugitive from the law condemned to doing menial jobs in the underground economy.
From what you've posted it seems that she has already made her mind up to live the life of a party girl. She probably knows that it wouldn't be hard to find a sucker to marry her and have her status adjusted even after becoming an illegal alien. Many young women use that scam to get around immigration laws each year and that is exactly why U.S. embassies almost never grant visas to single women under 40 yrs of age.
It appears that you have your head (the big one) on your shoulders and will not be drawn into her plan to break the law. As long as you do not harbor her or aid her in anyway if she becomes an illegal then you should be fine. Whether you choose to continue enjoying her pussy with a calculated risk or to part company is entirely up to you. My guess is that she will move on anyway if you don't extend an offer of marriage.
LS, you should talk to an immigration lawyer to get some advice, that's the best place to get your answers. Obviously with the current climate harboring an illegal can you get you into a lot of trouble. I don't live in the USA anymore so I couldn't give you any direct advice. My hunch is that she might be trying to pull something on you, I remember a Bulgarian woman I met was real friendly but I began to suspect she was looking for a guy to snag a green card off of.
[QUOTE=Long Stroker] Also, she is first trying to legally stay here, I only mentioned her illegally overstaying her visa as a possible scenario. She has not asked me for help in extending her visa, nor would I offer it if she did. [/QUOTE]IMO, she is looking for a marriage partner so that she can legalize her status. She may want to do so with you - if she can work her way to achieving that end - but if not, she would look to hook up with another American guy who can give her what she wants.
[QUOTE=Bart9000]They learn it, they know it, and they come to expect the world (as provided by men) to revolve around their desires.[/QUOTE]I don't know about the learning it from childhood bit, but I'd agree that because of cultural swings that have taken place in the US over the past 40 years ago or so, a sense of entitlement has developed among AW. The worst part of it is that American men and society as a whole has pandered to this so that at this point it is almost out of control.
Watch any talk show - Dr Phil, Oprah, etc - and you will find that the guy in the "wrong" is beaten up by the host and the audience consisting of almost all women. The host has to pander to audience. If the person being dumped on is a woman, it can only happen if the person is just egregiously at fault.
If there is violence against a woman by her signficant other, the perpertrator is put through the wringer. But let it be a reversal of roles and you have all this sympathy being shown for the woman who killed her spouse because she was emotionally abused or was suffering depression or some other rationalization.
A female teacher who gets sexually involved with a male student is school, is treated as confused, depressed, having problems, etc to explain away her actions. A male teacher who does the same thing with a female student is treated as one of the vilest creatures that ever lived and can be sure that he will be going to jail for a long time!
But the reality is that men have played a big role in allowing this situation to occur and not fighting back.
LS,
At least it seems that you are not hopelessly ensnared in her tentacles. Do research into the options spelled out by CBGB and said immigration lawyer can advise you best. Be up front (but tactful) in telling the lawyer about your relationship with this chick. I'm sure he or she can deduce that this Russian honey turned your loins into Vesuvius, so, you need not go that far into detail. If you're successful getting her into the U.S. the REAL test will come when she lets her guard down after feeling that she's completed all the hurdles. Will she or will she NOT lavish attention upon you as much as she did in the earlier stages of your relationship? When I was younger and living overseas, I saw the tragic result of such chicanery perpetrated upon young soldiers by hot chicas who made GIs feel as if they were the center of the universe. Be mindful of your feelings, young padawan....
A situation like this happened to me about 6 years ago, I met a beautiful Russian brunette, who fawned all over me, it was too good to be true because at that time I could never get a woman like that. I found out the hard way that she had a boyfriend and was just looking to get legal status to stay in the US, I spied on her and found out, it was emotionally stressful. I suggest you really check her out real good, her background and everything to avoid a major headache. Something like this repeated itself just last fall when I met a Bulgarian woman, she was looking to go to the US and needed a way in, through yours truly. Anyway its your call, you make the decision but think it through, try to get to know her better.
Long Stroker, it sounds like you’ve gotten yourself into a quandary there. I went through something similar when I had just turned 28 (5.5 years ago). I met a fine piece of Argentinean ass with whom I got to spend a few months of sexual bliss thinking and hoping it would go on forever. To make a long story short, we met when she had approx. 1 month left of her visa. Being from Argentina, she didn’t need a visa to travel to the U.S. at the time (this changed in early 2002) since her passport was automatically stamped for a three month stay. The disadvantage of this was that she couldn’t extend her stay because technically she didn’t have a visa and if she left the country, she couldn’t re-enter for 10 years.
She was working in a restaurant and living with some friends who were under similar circumstances. I made a lot of mistakes, so I’m not going to mention them all, but one of them was to have accepted, after being put on the spot, to do something about her legal situation. She overstayed her visa and eventually ended-up moving in with me. Like you, I was in 7th heaven and how better so than being in an oasis within Sex Prison, USA without the costs, hurdles and time constraints of traveling overseas?
I was determined not to give this piece of ass up. Big mistake! To wrap-up my story, we eventually got married, applied for her Green Card, had to wait some extra time because of the events of 9-11 all along having to put up with her changing ways. She became Americanized, the sex became less and less frequent, not to mention less and less good and she knew that she had me by the balls. The good thing was that we didn’t have any children and when the dust settled, we separated, headed different ways and eventually got divorced.
Even though every situation is unique and different in its own way, unfortunately the risks of things recurring in similar fashion are extremely high (and likely). A few fellow mongers made some excellent recommendations here. I would definitely suggest you travel to Russia, with or without her (if she overstays her visa), and visit her family to get a better understanding of who she really is as opposed to taking her word alone. This way you should gain insight as to who and how her family is, where she grew up at or lived at before heading to the U.S. You get to talk to her friends and neighbors and hope to get a lot of info from them. This might also help because if later down the road she starts bringing stuff up to you, you would know better from having been there and seen things for yourself, firsthand. Shit like “oh, I used to live like a queen” and “I had everything I wanted” or “I was such a model person...” This way you can also make a decision as to whether you would want to marry her or not.
Not to mention that you get to do some mongering on the side while you’re there…je..je.je.……
Long Stroker, from what you mentioned the reason why she doesn’t want to go back seems more economical than sentimental. This, is usually the case, and unfortunately for you (sentimental-wise) if you don’t come through for her, she will definitely find someone else who would. I would walk away if I were you. The mongers Ahornyguy, Chocha Monger, SM and CBGBConnisur are right and my gut instinct tells me the same thing!!
"I want...I want...I want!" Yep typical AW bullshit. She must be a real dog if she can't show her face on the web site. You see she KNOWS if guys saw her fat ugly ass in a photo they would never respond to her ad. She is using the trick of a "photo swap" to get guys to send her their photos. If the guy is not a real "stud" then she can diss him without exposing herself as a fat whale or mangy dog. It's a sure bet that she has no intention of sending a photo of herself after the guy has sent his.
All the AWs online are either fat, ugly or psycho. Average women in this country get so many cock offers on a daily basis that they don't have to go online to look for cock unless something is seriously wrong with them. I have found this to be true from personal experience as well as that of friends. Once this chick saw my photo and wanted to meet me but she didn't have a photo. Danger Will Robinson! When she showed up she was fat and ugly, nothing like her description on the site. I am not a mean guy but I could stop myself from laughing in this chick's face. What was she thinking? That she would somehow get around her appearance by meeting me in person?
Another psycho net slot bit up a friend of mine like Hannibal Lector and then tried to kill herself when he tried to leave her. After that I gave up internet dating in the US. It is not worth it. Oh by the way, while the psycho ho was biting chunks out of my buddy she threated to call the cops and accuse him of assualt if he retaliated. That is something you should think about before posting your profile on a dating site. She might still be out there.
I once arranged with this woman to meet after talking on a prominent dating site. She described herself as 38 with big tits and looking like Dolly Parton (I was picturing Dolly Parton in the eighties like when she made a stupid movie with Sly Stalone)
The THING that showed up to meet me didn't look like Dolly Parton. In fact, I'm not entirely sure that whatever it was quite qualified as human. She was just like this vaguely triangle shaped amorphous mass who.....get this.....had like a nervous tic.....some kind of neurophysiological issue obviously. I can honestly say that I have seen better looking bag ladies than this woman. Regarding being 38, I'm guessing that 53 was more accurate (I was about 30 at the time). I did notice that she waited until I said I was drunk to actually meet with me......like my drunken lack of inhibition was going to cause me to hit THAT. I'd hope to puke and die of blood alcohol poisoning first.
All that being said however, I did once meet a nice girl off of c-list personals (the non sexual type-that probably helped things). We didn't hit it off, but she sent me an accurate photo (actually she looked better than the photo), was young (24), sort of pretty, height weight proportionate, no obvious mental or neurophysiological issues.....hardly a nightmare at least
Internet dating doesn't seem to work well outside of North America, if you want to get laid, go to a pub, night club, or a good beach on a nice day(at least in Ozzie and certain parts of Europe, Spain and Italy).
I remember quite a while back, seeing a t-shirt with a saying that pretty much describes AW's attitudes. I don't know if this is VERBATIM but the saying was very close to the following words:
"I want a tiger in the bedroom, a jaguar in my garage, a mink around my shoulders and a ******* to pay for it all".
And they WONDER why they can't get "nice guys" as it was bemoaned in the quote in Marak5's post.
Although American, I havent actively dated or pursued American women since my college years... nor am I currently living there... but dont remember the women being that bad. The way you describe it, it sounds fucking horrible! Is it really THAT bad?
A lot of the mongers have posted that when foreign girls move to the states they soon adopt the bad habits of AWs, suggesting it is the environment that determines the girls behavior. The environment is the economy. Hollywood brainwashing. America’s latent pseudo-puritanical values. And the men that pursue the women. Us.
Russian women love dominant “real” men.
Asian women are submissive and giving.
European women are not afraid of their sexuality.
Hispanic women are unbridled honest passion.
The list goes on.
So what are American men doing wrong so that their women are so out of control?
Would you be so good as to put up a picture of a hot Russian girl when you post? I know you have lots of them!
The answer to your query is complex-we have walked in circles around it several times on this forum.
Part of the problem is that unlike the other parts of the world you mentioned, due to the moratorium on prostitution, American Women have a monopoly on pussy. They know it, and act accordingly.
American women also love "real men", and will in fact, live or die for them. However, due to some American complex social and cultural, and media conditioning or whatever they almost exclusively percieve those traits of a "real man" in self involved, job losing, wife beating, alcoholic, "bad boy loser" type guys who keep them involved in ever so entertaining "chaos"
30 years of feminism have destroyed what used to be a reasonably equitable arangement between men and women. Previously, women were subordinate and but didn't have responsibilities aside from maintaining the household-they were kept and protected and got what they wanted through manipulation(men rule the world-women rule the men). Men conversely were dominant, but also had responsibility for providing for the family unit. Now, in addition to all privleges previously allocated to women, they now have expectations of dominance in the relationship, without giving up any of the privleges they previously were privy to.
American media and culture continually denigrate men, and encourage their mistreatment-they are the butt of jokes and portrayed as brutish bufoons. I believe the "niceguy forum"'s originator made the point that the things that are said about men on a daily basis, even on the evening news "as a joke" would cause riots in the streets if they were used to indicate any other group of people.
Inequitable divorce laws have turned the institution of marriage into a big "lottery ticket" for American women. American women are now aware that all that they have to do to make it through life in relative comfort is find a "schlub" with some degree of income and wealth, spread her legs for him, squeeze out a couple of munchkins, and she can relegate him to living in poverty so that he can maintain her comfort after the divorce (she gets the house)
I think that I hit all of the big ones here.
Bart
feminist’s dilemma
by aviva ariel, alternet. posted august 31, 2005.
does allowing a man to open a car door or to slide out a chair at a restaurant perpetuate sexism?
feminists, i've come to understand, are very much like boats: they come in all shapes and sizes, each with their own preferences and peeves in the vast, rocky waters of life. and it has been my recognition of this diversity that has allowed me to feel comfortable with my own sort of make-it-up-as-i-go-because-i'm-way-too-young-to-know-all-the-answers version.
it wasn't until this summer, however, as i was living on a small catamaran with 11 other teens working on community service projects in the british virgin islands (bvi), that i realized my indecision on certain feminist issues could, well, leave me out to sea. i had ventured out on the trip in the spirit of wanting to help others, but it is my impression that i might have been the one who needed the real help.
throughout my education on feminism (one that could hardly fit into a course on a sea-mester), i have heard about what my grandmother calls "hardcore feminists" -- those who believe that allowing a man to open the car door or slide out your chair (under the guise of being a gentleman, of course) only perpetuates the sexist mentality of the opposite sex. for years, i've struggled to determine where i stand on this position, and just like a young sailor attempting to verify some truth in the story of black beard, i was unable to settle on a conclusion.
throughout the first days of the program in the bvi, with my enthusiasm stronger than the sun over saint thomas, it became apparent that my inability to clarify the unmapped line between courtesy and patronization would be even more important to me on the trip than staying hydrated in the heat.
the first time we attempted to raise the sail, i leapt up, ready to pull lines and tug ropes until my muscles hurt worse than my skin after a day without spf 60, but after multiple unsuccessful attempts, i was not-so-subtly nudged off the line by one of the boys. i stood looking at my male replacement, half-angered but mostly bewildered, and wondered if i had just been voted off the island of strength early in the game. or did he simply think that i, like the majority of the girls on the boat, would prefer to lie out tanning while the real men did all the work? (really though, i would hardly call a bunch of skinny, white 17-year-old boys from the suburbs "men.")
despite my unease, it wasn't until the next morning, when we had to pull up the anchor, that the impact of my uncertainty about seemingly courteous acts from the opposite sex became clearer than the water surrounding us. i eagerly offered to help, pulling on my personal floatation device with the zest of a sailor about to discover hidden treasures, but was kindly told by another male shipmate that i could just sit and watch. so again i observed the action, this time the blood rushing through my body to the beat of my own angry little steel drum band. as four of the boys tugged our boat free, i couldn't help but wonder whether this was a simple act of kindness or a subtle slap in my feminist face.
as the trip continued, i considered my interactions with the boys of the ship and found that, with regard to the notion that women should never accept help from men, the attraction was stronger than the seagulls' to the food on our boat. i began to see dan's assistance as we tied up the dinghies as a sort of silent move to prove his male dominance. and even andrew's support while i made dinner one night seemed to mean he found me too incompetent to light the stove or thoroughly cook the meat on my own. i was overwhelmed by a feeling that i was being undermined by the boys, like the captain of a crew about to mutiny.
looking back, i'd like to say it was too much sun or lack of sleep that made me unreasonably judgmental. now, in my landlocked home in good ole ohio, it seems impossible to me that the boys' assistance as i got off the boat could have been a sign of their lack of faith in my abilities as a woman -- lord knows my little legs couldn't have made that big jump alone without risking an unwanted dive into the ocean.
i think it was my insecurities, however, that pushed me to group all polite moves as chauvinistic. sometimes it's hard to gauge the motivations of overly gracious guys (hell, even the meaning behind a simple 'hey' from a boy can be difficult to decipher), so it would undoubtedly be easier to consistently refuse all commonly encountered courtesies.
although i thought i would no longer have to worry about the true man behind the manners by denying all ambiguous interactions, it has become evident to me that being a strong female is more about trusting yourself than overanalyzing kindness. if a man's attempted politeness feels degrading or condescending, i'll speak up faster than the program director after seeing kids breaking the rules onshore, but i don't believe allowing a man to open my door will ever make me less of a tough teen.
despite the fact that i'll never know their real intentions, in the end i've realized that the boys on my trip could've offered their help simply because they felt overly friendly. i mean, who can resist a spunky little redhead? and if they weren't just being friendly, i just spent three weeks being pampered by my pubescent peers while living in the caribbean. either way, i am now officially the most relaxed teenage feminist in the world, and just as empowered as ever.
I have recently discovered that Australia is the most coveted destination for women from the Eastern bloc. Tell a lady you live in Australia and her eyes light up, the scenery and more pleasant climate versus Artic Europe is a major factor. Around both Melbourne and Sydney, I have ran into sizable numbers of women from Russia and elsewhere from the former Soviet Union.
New Bound mentioned that Norwegian women are very feminist but are still more entertaining than AWs and far more attractive. While I wouldn't consider Ozzie women to be as feminist as Scandinavians, they are independent to a degree but a lot of guys I have met here are quite chauvinistic towards them, and like Norwegians who can run off to Eastern Europe, Australian guys can run off to the Phillipines, Thailand, Malaysia, or any other Asian hotspot for meeting women, and they do this quite a bit, which seems to "soften" up the ladies here. There have been some naysayers about Australia, but my batting average is much higher here than back in the US, with women at least.
It probably goes something like this:
Puritanism --> women less likely to put out.
Women less likely to put out --> makes men desperate.
Desperate men --> trying to "please" women.
"pleasing" women --> men become male-vaginas.
Male-vaginas--> entitlement princesses.
I was listening to Love Lines on the way home from work the other night. Adam Carolla was busting on a girl for her "bad boy loser" fetish. He essentially told her...."yea, cut off this guy's supply of pussy, and you'll see how BAD he actually is.....before you know it, he'll be at your front door holding flowers, kissing your ass, and calling your Father 'sir' ".........."Yea, the next time I hear from a girl 'He's the greatest guy in the world but (he doesn't turn me on)'....I just want you to go out and give him some pussy. He deserves it."
Too Funny. And very true.
Thanks for all of the repsonses, guys. I knew I could expect some good feedback here.
A lot of times in life it seems you know in your mind the proper course of action to take - the only real challenge is forcing yourself to do it. So, I will talk to her again, tell her that I think her staying here in the U.S. is a bad idea for a number of reasons. I will tell her that I think she needs to go back to her city, back to university where she belongs, and that if she chooses to stay here, I can no longer be a part of her life.
I'll let you guys know what happens.
P.S. - On the Westernization of her attutide:
It's already starting to happen. Nothing serious yet; she hasn't turned into a raving b*tch or anything. But over the last few months, I have seen the demure, passive girl I met in May gradually grow in self-confidence, fueled by the power and promise of her new surroundings. It has been an amazing and bittersweet thing to witness. Mostly bittersweet, however, because we all know how these stories end. Once she becomes fully westernized, of course, the girl I knew will be gone.
I'm not against anyone gaining confidence in themselves, LS, but from your post, it seems that HER newfound confidence came from the fact that she felt she may have got you to do her bidding. Thankfully, that was averted. Even the BEST of actresses will eventually drop their guard and expose a fraction of their agenda. If she TRULY wanted to be with YOU ALONE, she would have busted her ass and researched her options instead of pouting in front of you (for your sake) and lamenting the fact that she needed a knight in shining armor to come to her rescue. If you had taken the path without seeking counsel, forever would it have ruled your destiny!
A friend of mine (we are not American) told me that when he was in US he saw many times men accept women point of vue just to be nice with them.
I don't know your country enough, but if I was asked what I think about that, I would say you Americans are too consensual.
Maybe that's the effects of "politically correct".
In my opinion women (not only AW in fact) with men are like childs with parents : they test the limits of authority ... and everybody knows how behave a child wich had weak parents.
I think feminism is killing men / women relationships. I see it in my country too : you can't watch TV, read magasines etc ... without being told how men are bad.
I consider it as a kind of racism ...
What I do ? I just behave normally and don't care about what people and women think.
I don't want to be a woman's toy just to get laid.
So I fuck less, but I have the satisfaction to keep my integrity toward myself.
Sorry for my poor english ;)
[QUOTE=Zapadnya]A friend of mine (we are not American) told me that when he was in US he saw many times men accept women point of vue just to be nice with them.
I don't know your country enough, but if I was asked what I think about that, I would say you Americans are too consensual.
Maybe that's the effects of "politically correct".
In my opinion women (not only AW in fact) with men are like childs with parents : they test the limits of authority ... and everybody knows how behave a child wich had weak parents.
I think feminism is killing men / women relationships. I see it in my country too : you can't watch TV, read magasines etc ... without being told how men are bad.
I consider it as a kind of racism ...
What I do ? I just behave normally and don't care about what people and women think.
I don't want to be a woman's toy just to get laid.
So I fuck less, but I have the satisfaction to keep my integrity toward myself.
Sorry for my poor english ;)[/QUOTE]It would be helpful if you told us which country you are from, so we can avoid going there. So what country is your country? And how come people always say my country instead fo the country's name, prompting me to ask a redundant question?
For those of you who have had enough of AW crap (I know I have), there is a major European airline that is having a very nice fare sale. I personally am flying from Chicago to Dublin (hint hint), where I will grab a connecting flight to Prague. ORD to DUB is costing me a whopping $355.58. Not bad. Those of you who can't figure out the airline (I don't want to post a commercial endorsement-not sure if it's against the rules or not), PM me.
[QUOTE=Bart9000]For those of you who have had enough of AW crap (I know I have), there is a major European airline that is having a very nice fare sale. I personally am flying from Chicago to Dublin (hint hint), where I will grab a connecting flight to Prague. ORD to DUB is costing me a whopping $355.58. Not bad. Those of you who can't figure out the airline (I don't want to post a commercial endorsement-not sure if it's against the rules or not), PM me.[/QUOTE]
I don´t think there´s a problem mentioning American Airlines, as long as you´re not spamming everyone about it.
It's Aer Lingus
[QUOTE=Bart9000]For those of you who have had enough of AW crap (I know I have), there is a major European airline that is having a very nice fare sale. I personally am flying from Chicago to Dublin (hint hint), where I will grab a connecting flight to Prague. ORD to DUB is costing me a whopping $355.58. Not bad. Those of you who can't figure out the airline (I don't want to post a commercial endorsement-not sure if it's against the rules or not), PM me.[/QUOTE]
US ---> IRL is about 10-12 hrs flight
IRL ---> CZ is about 3 hrs flight
It's a bit long unless you stay there for a week at least.
Isn't Mexico better for you Americans ? Or even in your town : if you add plane ticket + hotel that's minimum 600$ that you could spend with escorts.
[QUOTE=Zapadnya]
Isn't Mexico better for you Americans ? Or even in your town : if you add plane ticket + hotel that's minimum 600$ that you could spend with escorts.[/QUOTE]
That's true Zap, but even the escorts here have a bad attitude. Pay $300 for a mechanical fuck? I'd rather beat off to some good porn and save the money for a plane ticket to somewhere else.
Also, Zap, you're absolutely right about "feminism ... killing men / women relationships." Even with things as bad as they are today in the U.S., I don't think we've seen the worst of it. You have to ask youself - where will it all end?
With the social uprest that comes when large groups of males are deprived of mates and families and the responsibilities that come with them?
(See: China in 15 years)
With President Clinton (Chelsea Clinton, following in her mother's footsteps to become the 2nd female U.S. president) calling for extension of existing hate-crime legislation to include the crimes of talking back to your wife, or - even worse - not listening to her at all?
I agree with Z 100%. I don't know homw many of you guys have noticed, but over the past 10 years or so, the TV programs and some movies are based on men being idiots! The TV commercials re the worst. They consitently have the man being an idiot and the owmen showing him how to do things right.
For example; the Dish Network ad with the husband holding the receiver like an idiot, the ad for window blinds with the man messing up the barbeque, the car insurance ad where the newly married couple is movong into a new house and ALL the guy's stuff is going in the garbage because the new wife doesn't approve of it, the movie the 40 year-old virgin, etc. I could go on but you get the idea. We men are horrendously portrayed in the media these days. Shows like the Cosby "Huxtables" where the husband and wife are equals are out the window now. Now it is the wives are superior and husbands are lame brained, incompetent, idiots.
And AW see this and expect us to be behaving just ike that.
[QUOTE=Zapadnya]
I think feminism is killing men / women relationships. I see it in my country too : you can't watch TV, read magasines etc ... without being told how men are bad.
I consider it as a kind of racism ...
Sorry for my poor english ;)[/QUOTE]
b9000:
being too good will definitely tor**** your image, applied goodness goes a long way to getting her hooked on you. but yes, most girls do like to be bossed around a bit, provided its not violent. they like to be reminded who is the man. the classic "lady on the street and a ho in the bed"
in america i'm described as a chauvenist if i say that. elsewhere it has yielded "more than satisfactory" results.
i've been both good guy and bad guy and honestly speaking, i get laid much more often being bad.
as for tv portrayal of men, guys are almost always a goon... married with children, simpsons etc. loser white guy earning lower middle class wages. there are dozens of other sitcoms with loser men, especially husbands and fathers...
ZAP, why in the HELL would I spend $600+ on an American hooker when my own HAND or a CADAVER would provide a BETTER experience for LESS?? Add that to the fact that I'll soon be able to taste more palatable foreign "cuisine" more often and you will see why AW's are like dinosaurs 65 million years ago. I've seen the ads of some of these American escorts and they would have you believe that THEY are what's waiting once you pass the pearly gates! If THAT were the case, maybe a "HOTTER" environment wouldn't be so bad....
Doc,
I am absolutely in favor of being powerful, dominant, and masculine. A man should act like a man. I'm also highly in favor of "fucking with" girls a little bit, as this keeps them in line. However, I'm not in favor of being a useless piece of shit (can't hold a job, woman beating, drug dealing, alcoholic), which is what many AW seem to prefer (they will use "nice guys" as a safety blanket, but these are the guys who make them wet). I know a reasonably bright, fairly attractive girl who has been doing "make up/break up" for 7 years with a guy who is taking up oxygen the rest of us could be breathing. When she was 24 and must have been smoking hot (pretty face, big tits), she could have had any man that she wanted, but chose him.
Zap-First of all, your estimates of travel time are WAY over. Chicago to Dublin should be about six hours, with Prague another three. Frankfurt is about 8 hours, with Prague another hour. But that isn't the point. I am actually only a 3-4 hour drive away from Windsor Canada where prostitution is legal. I could certainly go there an purchase sex, and I am sure that it would be....OK.
However, this doesn't even begin to compare what my life is like in Eastern Europe. Relative to what I have at home, I am living like Hugh Hefner/Mick Jagger. I have had gorgeous 20 year old girls (she was selling roasted walnuts at a stand in the tourist section of Prague) awestruck by my presence, as though I were Tom Cruise (I'm 34 and have a beer belly), been told that my accent sound "so cool" to EE ears (by a 24 year old girl who could be a model), and even prostitutes who see relatively wealthy western european guys every day hang on my every word (hysterical story-I was coming out of a brothel in Prague with 2 Brits and maybe a Swede and we were piling into a sedan taxi. Although I politely offered to cram into the back and let one of them take the front seat with the driver they insisted I be up front because I was "the man". They witnessed the girls inside facinated by me, hugging and kissing me goodbye, where they could barely get the time of day except when they were paying) ....I've even had a few offers from pro's to go home with me after their shift. It's a beautiful thing, and although Canada is cool, I just don't see the same things happening.
By the way, here is a handy hint for you guys going abroad When someone asks you where you are from, don't say "The US/USA/America", as doing so puts images in their heads of egocentric jackbooted imperialists who think that the rest of the world is here for our convenience (less prevalent in Eastern Europe who are still fetishy about the US). Instead, claim the nearest major metropolitan area. I for example, claim Chicago (35 miles away), and this puts an image in their heads of Al Capone, 1920's Gangsters, the Sears Tower, Michael Jordan...You get the idea.
That is all,
Bart 9K
Or you could say you are Canadian in public and in private tell the girls you are American.
I would still like to know which country ZAP is from? He never did mention that!
When I go to Europe, I transform into Superman from Clark Kent, ladies who would ignore me in New York aka metropolis would be fawning on me Prague, Amsterdam, anywhere else in continental Europe.
I thought about (aboot) claiming Canada, but 1. I'm not overly fond of lying-it makes life too complicated. 2. It isn't really necessary in Eastern Europe, as although the US foreign policies are a travesty, they for the most part are still in love with the Hollywood dream of the United States. Now were I in Western Europe, there might be some temptation.....
Zap here appears to be from Moldova (at least some of his posts are there), which is a country between Romainia and Ukraine (I looked it up). It is very disconcerting to hear that feminism is starting to actually get it's nasty tendrils into the unspoiled parts of the world. Men may eventually be forced to troll the primitive indigenous tribes of South America for decent women-hopefully I'll be long gone by that time.
[QUOTE=Bart9000]Men may eventually be forced to troll the primitive indigenous tribes of South America for decent women-hopefully I'll be long gone by that time.[/QUOTE]
I think that might actually be the ultimate U.S. legacy. Long after the sun has set on the American Empire, international feminism will thrive, spurred on by the armies of NGOs we have dispatched across the globe to spread the gospel of man-hating.
I respect myself too much to tell anyone I'm a Canadian, sure US foreign policy today is a major travesty but there is another side to America that isn't. Western Europeans can tell Americans and Canadians apart quite easier, the former tend to be more macho. Looking at the way people in Eastern Europe live, its not surprising that they will hold on to the Hollywood image of the US, even people in Western Europe have a similar idea. Australians and Canadians, coming from two countries that are physically similar to the US, are mixed.
The last time I was in Germany, I was 'dating' this one woman. She thought that Canadian and American was the same thing. Of course most people will assume you are American by default. I have also worked telephone customer service jobs calling to places like England, and they assumed I was Canadian.
It is truly a shame if what ZAP says is true and he is in Eastern Europe. <sigh>
My experience is that people can easily tell whether you are American or Canadian, this is more so for males than females. Canadian guys tend to be a bit effiminate while Americans like me are more macho.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]My experience is that people can easily tell whether you are American or Canadian, this is more so for males than females. Canadian guys tend to be a bit effiminate while Americans like me are more macho.[/QUOTE]With all due respect,We like to think Canadians are more polite.
Let me be more clear, Canadians act more "European", Europeans tend to be a bit effiminate. Americans tend to be more hardy and masculine.
In any case, the overall masculine traits of Canadian men Vs. American men is a moot point.
Let's get back to the original topic: the pros and cons of American women, preferably with real life examples.
Cheers
I met this Polish Girl, and I've seen her a couple of times. When I was in Germany and I talked to girls, if they liked me, they'd usually suggest that we exchange numbers, or that we meet somewhere the next day or they we go back to her place.
I was hoping that the Polish girl I met would take the initiative like that also. But I can see that she is waiting for me to "be the man." She is very flirtatious. So I guess Im going to have to bite the bullet and ask her.
But does anyone here know if Polish women take the initiative in general? Or is it possible that since she's 22 and has been living in the states for 5 years that she's acclimated to the atmosphere here? I dont think she's dated anyone but Polish men so far. I am not Polish.
a girl who was raised in Croatia until 15 or so, when her family moved to the Chicago area. Although she is more or less Americanized (I think she is 27-28 now), she is a much better person than most American girls-she is humble, kind,friendly, faithful, not particularly materialistic, or greedy (obviously her upbringing in Europe had a lasting effect). She told me stories of little bitches in her new high school making fun of "the little Eastern European girl's" lack of stylish clothing and belongings.
Kind of a funny Cinderella ending. That girl married a 30 year old pretty boy millionaire, beating out innumerable other hot bimbo's (she is attractive, but not stunning). I know both of them well (went to college with her, worked for him). He (rightly) views marriage as a business decision, and chose to have a good partner, instead of the hottest piece of ass he could land.
This doesn't really count (she's a dancer-all interactions are colored by her interest in emptying my wallet), but I also used to know a Polish girl. Despite being in the United States since a very young age (I think she said they moved when they were 7), I could definitely tell that she was "different"-she was kind, seemed to have a sense of keeping her word (she promised a small "favor" in the back room which she delivered on despite me not pushing for it), and fair play. Also, just in general, she was much more likely than the American girls to not engage in false advertising.
Moral of my stories: The poison that is the United States, is mighty potent, but not entirely pervasive in some cases. Back before I started considering expatriation, I was thinking I would go hang outside a Russian Orthodox church to see if I could meet me a nice girl.
Regarding taking the initiative, I have heard that E. European girls will approach you if they find you attractive, but who the hell knows what this girls head is like now. My advice. Just divorce yourself from the outcome, put a helmet on and go for it. Don't be afraid to be a little forward and dominant (they like to see that you have some testicles) when you do it, saying something like..."I'm going to X....Why don't you come along with me" Then give her your number, and she may reciprocate. If she does give you her phone number, don't call her except to confirm plans-then get off the phone ASAP. If you call just to "chat", you are acting like her girlfriends, not her boyfriend, and also showing her that you aren't busy-a bad sign.
"Bart"
Oh please!
I can't believe some of the recent comments regarding Canadian men. First, we are definitely NOT more effeminate. There's a lot of "pussified" men around here it's true. But, most of these tend to be found in large, metropolitan areas like Toronto, Montreal or Vancouver.
Check your own country and you'll see the same thing. Rural Montana and Texas.... lot's of he-men for sure. LA, New York and Miami..... wall to wall fags and fruityboys for sure!
I've been all over the US, and all over the world.... and I've yet to run into someone who could tell that I wasn't a Yank (americans included). In fact, that is usually their first assumption. Maybe it's because I'm so strong and masculine-looking.... I don't know. :D
Rock
[quote=TyHigs77]I was hoping that the Polish girl I met would take the initiative like that also. But I can see that she is waiting for me to "be the man." She is very flirtatious. So I guess Im going to have to bite the bullet and ask her.[/quote]
Yes, I think you should. Personally, I have absolutely no qualms about approaching; however, what's always kept me from doing so in the past is the ambiguious (sp?) signals you always get from these Ameriskanks. The dating game would make so much more sense without men needing to possess mind-reading skills and a B.S. in Psychology.
I guess that's why I've always had a preference for Latinas; you usually know where you stand.
CBGB is a knee jerk racist who cannot function without relying on ethnic stereotypes so don't pay too much attention, Rock Dog, Cebu Local, and other Canadians.
Guys,
Are we really taking up time and space in the "American Women" forum to discuss masculinity issues of Canadian vs. American men????? Geez.
To change gears, I was wondering if there are any travel agencies out there which specialize in sex tours for individual mongers? I know that there is something like this operating in Costa Rica right now. They arrange accomodations, nightly parties with an ample supply of working girls, etc. This might also constitute a viable new market for some young entrepreneurs out there. I was just wondering.
[QUOTE=Paddy]Guys,
To change gears, I was wondering if there are any travel agencies out there which specialize in sex tours for individual mongers? I know that there is something like this operating in Costa Rica right now. They arrange accomodations, nightly parties with an ample supply of working girls, etc. This might also constitute a viable new market for some young entrepreneurs out there. I was just wondering.[/QUOTE]
Hi Paddy,
Long time no speak. Unfortunately, I'm back from Brazil. Our currency made me broke by even their standards so I had to open a bar serving capirinhas and cervejas there but still went bankrupt because bars don't really make much money there. With the Reais worth twice as much now as it was worth 4 years ago, I could no longer afford to even survive there with just my savings. Of course, I blame Bush for this travesty for devaluing our currency. I had to move back to New York to get my old job back and move in with my parents to recover my spendings in Brazil. It was great while it lasted, I even hooked up with a chick who stuck with me thick and thin until the time I had to come back to the states.
There is a Germany FKK tour called CFIT that goes from FKK club to FKK club. You also have the option of doing individual tours. The website to these tours is [url]http://www.cfit.com/tour.htm[/url]. The tour guide is Bob. He also not only does Germany but he does Tijuana and Nevada. He also knows some places in Czech Republic, Austria, Holland, and Quebec. I have gone to Germany four times, once by myself which is hell driving from place to place and the other times with Bob. He also keeps up to date with new clubs in Germany that pops up.
As for AWs, I think they're all lesbians. Think about it! They set up sexual harassment laws to prevent us from hitting on them and if they don't like you, they can cry sexual harrassment and have you thrown in jail (this almost happened to me but thank goodness my guy co-workers acted as my witnesses to help me and the case was thrown out. The girl I tried to pick up was transferred by my boss because he was scared that she would pull this same act on him.) They also like doing other women more than doing guys and that is why there is more lesbian movies. It also seems that American men like to see lesbian action but I think it is just that they accepted it because these are the same men that can't get some action from AWs because AWs don't put out for men. I personally don't like lesbianism because it takes away our choice of women but unfortunately the trend in AWs is heading that way with all this feminism.
FEMINISM=LESBIANISM!!
Marriage without sex is a great cover for AWs lesbian ways. They're excuse is, "I want to save myself for marriage. I'll make it worth your while." This is the case with all big city girls I've asked out. In America, the only place I've gotten laid is in Las Vegas. The girls are there to party and they do put out but after you've treated them to some dinners, shows, and drinks. I do have more luck with non-pros there than with the pros because they are prohibitively expensive for paid sex.
As for other AWs especially the ones from the big cities, to heck with them. They've become sexually calloused to men by feminism besides the fact you can get maced or thrown in jail just for asking them out.
The US dollar has fallen against every major world currency(Euro, Sterling, Yen, Swiss Franc, Canadian and Australian Dollar) which has made going abroad a difficult proposition for those who want to leave the US to find the beauties abroad. I looked up the Brazilian real on a chart, it bought 25 cents about three years ago, and now buys almost .45 cents US.
If any of you have an amazon.com account, or if you have a credit card, you can check out the first few pages of a book written by Thomas Ellis called [i]The Rantings of a Single Male[/i]. On pages 7-9 specifically, he talks about how women are trained from an early age to be bitches. You'll enjoy the read. He is very humourous. It is free of charge to read these first few pages. This book is on my list of books to buy.
Incidently, Thomas Ellis is a member of the NiceGuy forum under the handle [i]Rantmeister[/i].
Here is the link to the reading:
[url]http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0976261308/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-7432360-0879211#reader-link[/url]
If any of you read this, please post. I'm interested in your perspectives.
---
As for the Polish girl, I wont see her again til next wk.
article in a recent cosmopolitan "why there's so much marriage mania".
by julia gaynor
over the past few months, it's been virtually impossible to avoid hearing, seeing, or uttering the w word (hint: it rhymes with bedding). you've likely read stories, heard newscasts, and participated in conversations - ad nauseam - that covered everything from runaway brides to shotgun weddings to six-figure receptions. chatter about marriage seems to have reached a fever pitch, which is odd considering it's an institution that's existed for thousands of years. so what's actually going on?
"we're a nation that has become obsessed with weddings," says psychologist dale atkins, phd. and there are bunch of contributing factors. "extravagant details of celebrity weddings, increasing competitive pressure within female peer groups, and the gen y desire to fast-track one's lifestyle and add momentum to this shift in the energy we're focusing toward weddings now," explains atkins. cosmo examines why wedding fervor has accelerated at warp speed.
did you get the memo? paris has a 24-carat rock! nicole richie wants elephant rides, swans and horse-drawn carriages on her big day. both ben and jen and renee and kenny had secret, intimate island ceremonies, while sophia bush and chad michael murray got hitched in a lavish seaside event in southern california. "today, young female stars' weddings are far more frequent and over-the-top than they were 10 or 15 years ago," says pamela paul, author of the starter marriage. additionally, the grand details of celebrity nuptials are more accessible to us than ever before, which makes it hard not to get sucked in."
sure, it seems like innocent, voyeurish fun to get an inside peek at those a-list unions, but the constant barrage of celeb weddings can seep into your psyche. "even if you're not thinking about getting married, most women will subconsciously wind up fantasizing about weddings simply because they're bombarded with so many images and news reports," says beverly hills psychotherapist jenn berman, phd. "the focus is often on the dress and the party, rather than the relationship. as a result, people fixate on those superficial details. they use celebrity examples as yardstick for what they want someday, which makes them feel panicked because they can't live up to it."
...
dream-life checklist: kick-ass career, gorgeous husband, fabulous pad, cute gurgling baby. timeline: fitting it all in before age 30! it might sound crazy and ridiculously ambitious, but many young women are creating tighter and tighter internal deadlines for themselves. that puts them in a pinch - and creates a feeling of panic. "there's been a generational shift in the way young women approach their goals these days," says jane buckingham, president of youth intelligence, a trend-forecasting firm. "they want to have it all - the career, the house, the husband - while they're still a 20something. but this high-pressure deadline makes them feel like they're running out of time and if they don't get hitched soon, most of good men will be taken and their chances of having a baby will be slim."
blame it on the generational backlash: "young women today spent their childhood being told that they could accomplish anything and to pour their energy into pursuing their own interests," says paul. "they experienced a prolonged adolescence as they turned their focus away from settling down. but now they are yearning for a sign of adulthood. they crave security are optimistic that marriage will quickly transition them from their less responsible 20s into a more successful stage. they think it's the fastest way to show their parents that they're officially left the nest."
...
but there is an inherent pitfall in trying to do it all by 30. "what do you have to look forward to?" asks paul. "when you race through your goals without savoring them or taking what you learned form the last experience to refocus your next step, you really miss out." not to mention, your marriage's chance of surviving is better if you wed in your late 20s rather than your earlier.
fact: big-day price tags are getting higher and higher, echoing the competition women increasingly face to outdo one another in their walk down the isle. "wedding have become the ultimate status symbol for couples today. it drives women to compete with each other, and that one-upmanship fuels the mania," says atkins. "many women see the wedding as a projection of how their whole life will be - that's one reason it has to be perfect and better than the last celebration they attended," adds paul.
and the numbers prove it. according to weddingchannel.com, the average cost of weddings has risen $11,000.00 in the past 15 years, from $15,000.00 to roughly $26,000.00. and to keep up with the spiraling cost of getting hitched, the wall street journal reports that some couples are now asking guests for cash - on top of traditional gifts - so they can have their over-the-top nuptials. all this to marry the man you love? not really.
brides are taking out loans for their dresses. couples are flying bands across the country and asking guests to cross state lines and oceans for elaborate destination weddings (which can last for several days) just to make sure their big day is more fabulous than anyone else's.
"people become competitive from the proposal on," says paul. "as soon as you announce your engagement, it's 'how did he do it?' and 'let's have a look at the ring.' we have more bridal and celebrity magazines than ever, as well as reality tv shows, which all fuel the industry. weddings overall have become a focus of consumer culture, so there's a lot more pressure for people to get everything from event planners to wedding web sites. there's so much more out there now in the marketplace that caters to this."
unfortunately, a lot of people lose track of the lifelong commitment they're about to make as they figure out whether they want fireworks or a 40-piece orchestra at the reception. "couples get so caught up in the event that they lose sight of the relationship and their life after the wedding," says susan shapiro barash, author of the new wife. "it's a rude awakening when, after the wedding has been so consuming emotionally, financially, and time-wise, the couple returns to each other alone and is no longer treated like royalty. princess for a day really only lasts one day."
this article only confirms what i've been thinking all along.
a) the majority of women are selfish.
b) women care nothing about men.
c) women consider men walking atm‘s.
d) men are pussies in the eyes of women.
e) the majority of women are illogical, and lack logical perspective.
f) the majority of women are only in love with the idea of marriage, not marriage its self.
Hi Darkseid,
Yes, it has been a long time. Thanks for the update on what has been going on in your life. The Brazilian girl sounds like a dream come true. Also, thanks for the website regarding sex tours in Germany. It sounds interesting to say the least. I'll be in Prague in November and might cross over the border to connect with a tour there.
Thanks again.
Hi Paddy,
For the Germany tour, they have a limited number of seats so you must arrange to be on the tour if you want to meet up with them and contact Bob on where he can pick you up.
As for Prague, I went there for a short four day trip with Bob who was trying to get a feel for this country and it was like another Holland except that they don't speak much English. They do speak some German so that was how I communicated. Their Red Light District is identical to Amsterdam's RLD. I did not have Czech Kroners so I paid in Euros. They charge 50 Euros for 15 minutes and they do the girl I picked who named herself Ashley did only missionary and a mechanical CBJ. What you'll find in the RLD are stunning looking to so-so looking women but bad service.
Another tourist trap is the K5 Club. The club is very dark and it is set up like a strip club with loud dance music and sofas with girls seated there. Their bodies were gorgeous but the faces were average looking. I would have went with one if it were not for the prices. It was 350 EUROS (or 5000 Kroners, it is cheaper a bit to pay by Kroners) for a one hour session. They only have "luxury" rooms and no economy room. They took me on a tour and all the rooms have Jacuzzis and a king sized bed. Each room has a theme like caveman, ice age, etc. What is also inferior to Germany is they only do CBJs when I asked the host.
What's also interesting about the Czech Republic is the prostitutes walking around on the roads that hail down men. I stopped on a red light and one approached me and out of curiosity I asked her prices. She asked if I had Kroners or Euros but I said Euros. She said it was 25 Euros for a half hour (BBBJ and sex) and said we had to stop at a short stay hotel for 10 Euros more. The safety factor is questionable because they don't get tested nor are they carded so I passed on the offer.
There are also numberous smaller sex bars in the Dubi border. Almost all of them have only 2 women- one doable one and a girl next door type. They would charge 50 Euros for a half hour and expect maybe a 10 to 20 Euro tip for a BBBJ or 50 Euro tip for anal. The tip means that you must negotiate what they would or would not do and for how much extra if they do do it. Some girls won't accept any offer and would only do the basics CBJ and sex but with multiple positions unlike Prague RLD which is only missionary.
That is a small summary of Czech Republic. I liked it but it was not as good as Germany.
As for Brazil, if I have the money to do it again I definitely would go back. I must save up at least another 5 years and also wait until the imcompetent George W Bush who disrupted my stay leaves office so the US economy would be as good as it was under Clinton.
[quote=astor bryan]article in a recent cosmopolitan "why there's so much marriage mania".
by julia gaynor
over the past few months, it's been virtually impossible to avoid hearing, seeing, or uttering the w word (hint: it rhymes with bedding). you've likely read stories, heard newscasts, and participated in conversations - ad nauseam - that covered everything from runaway brides to shotgun weddings to six-figure receptions. chatter about marriage seems to have reached a fever pitch, which is odd considering it's an institution that's existed for thousands of years. so what's actually going on?
"we're a nation that has become obsessed with weddings," says psychologist dale atkins, phd. and there are bunch of contributing factors. "extravagant details of celebrity weddings, increasing competitive pressure within female peer groups, and the gen y desire to fast-track one's lifestyle and add momentum to this shift in the energy we're focusing toward weddings now," explains atkins. cosmo examines why wedding fervor has accelerated at warp speed.
did you get the memo? paris has a 24-carat rock! nicole richie wants elephant rides, swans and horse-drawn carriages on her big day. both ben and jen and renee and kenny had secret, intimate island ceremonies, while sophia bush and chad michael murray got hitched in a lavish seaside event in southern california. "today, young female stars' weddings are far more frequent and over-the-top than they were 10 or 15 years ago," says pamela paul, author of the starter marriage. additionally, the grand details of celebrity nuptials are more accessible to us than ever before, which makes it hard not to get sucked in."
sure, it seems like innocent, voyeurish fun to get an inside peek at those a-list unions, but the constant barrage of celeb weddings can seep into your psyche. "even if you're not thinking about getting married, most women will subconsciously wind up fantasizing about weddings simply because they're bombarded with so many images and news reports," says beverly hills psychotherapist jenn berman, phd. "the focus is often on the dress and the party, rather than the relationship. as a result, people fixate on those superficial details. they use celebrity examples as yardstick for what they want someday, which makes them feel panicked because they can't live up to it."
...
dream-life checklist: kick-ass career, gorgeous husband, fabulous pad, cute gurgling baby. timeline: fitting it all in before age 30! it might sound crazy and ridiculously ambitious, but many young women are creating tighter and tighter internal deadlines for themselves. that puts them in a pinch - and creates a feeling of panic. "there's been a generational shift in the way young women approach their goals these days," says jane buckingham, president of youth intelligence, a trend-forecasting firm. "they want to have it all - the career, the house, the husband - while they're still a 20something. but this high-pressure deadline makes them feel like they're running out of time and if they don't get hitched soon, most of good men will be taken and their chances of having a baby will be slim."
blame it on the generational backlash: "young women today spent their childhood being told that they could accomplish anything and to pour their energy into pursuing their own interests," says paul. "they experienced a prolonged adolescence as they turned their focus away from settling down. but now they are yearning for a sign of adulthood. they crave security are optimistic that marriage will quickly transition them from their less responsible 20s into a more successful stage. they think it's the fastest way to show their parents that they're officially left the nest."
...
but there is an inherent pitfall in trying to do it all by 30. "what do you have to look forward to?" asks paul. "when you race through your goals without savoring them or taking what you learned form the last experience to refocus your next step, you really miss out." not to mention, your marriage's chance of surviving is better if you wed in your late 20s rather than your earlier.
fact: big-day price tags are getting higher and higher, echoing the competition women increasingly face to outdo one another in their walk down the isle. "wedding have become the ultimate status symbol for couples today. it drives women to compete with each other, and that one-upmanship fuels the mania," says atkins. "many women see the wedding as a projection of how their whole life will be - that's one reason it has to be perfect and better than the last celebration they attended," adds paul.
and the numbers prove it. according to weddingchannel.com, the average cost of weddings has risen $11,000.00 in the past 15 years, from $15,000.00 to roughly $26,000.00. and to keep up with the spiraling cost of getting hitched, the wall street journal reports that some couples are now asking guests for cash - on top of traditional gifts - so they can have their over-the-top nuptials. all this to marry the man you love? not really.
brides are taking out loans for their dresses. couples are flying bands across the country and asking guests to cross state lines and oceans for elaborate destination weddings (which can last for several days) just to make sure their big day is more fabulous than anyone else's.
"people become competitive from the proposal on," says paul. "as soon as you announce your engagement, it's 'how did he do it?' and 'let's have a look at the ring.' we have more bridal and celebrity magazines than ever, as well as reality tv shows, which all fuel the industry. weddings overall have become a focus of consumer culture, so there's a lot more pressure for people to get everything from event planners to wedding web sites. there's so much more out there now in the marketplace that caters to this."
unfortunately, a lot of people lose track of the lifelong commitment they're about to make as they figure out whether they want fireworks or a 40-piece orchestra at the reception. "couples get so caught up in the event that they lose sight of the relationship and their life after the wedding," says susan shapiro barash, author of the new wife. "it's a rude awakening when, after the wedding has been so consuming emotionally, financially, and time-wise, the couple returns to each other alone and is no longer treated like royalty. princess for a day really only lasts one day."
this article only confirms what i've been thinking all along.
a) the majority of women are selfish.
b) women care nothing about men.
c) women consider men walking atm‘s.
d) men are pussies in the eyes of women.
e) the majority of women are illogical, and lack logical perspective.
f) the majority of women are only in love with the idea of marriage, not marriage its self.[/quote]
astor, that is if you are referring to american women, as someone who would be considered of moderate means, i have done really well with european women who are considerably more fun to be around and easier to deal with, i have found that australian women are not as egotistic as american women, first off they don't try to guage my earning power by asking me what i do for a living and these seems to be consistent with the way they approach local guys.
as for your conclusions they are pretty much valid for all american and english canadian women.
An excellent analogy on American women: "We all know for a fact that not every chamber in a gun has a bullet when someone is playing Russian roulette, but who has the luxury of taking that chance?"
So when someone tells you that not ALL American women are that way, you have a good retort.
Personally I estimate that there are good American women. Somewhere around 3-5 out of every 1000 American women might be worth dating. That's 0.3-0.5%
1. Menopausal 43 year old woman-lonely old maid. Incapable of doing her fairly simple, but fast paced job, and is in a position to create mass chaos for everyone else through failure. Prone to psychotic emotional outbursts and fits of panic.
2. Conniving, manipulative, pathological liar, age 23. Long story short, trying to take my job, which she was removed from. Recenly flat busted her in a deceptive underhanded attempt to undermine me and get "her job back". Now I have to deal with her passive aggressive crap until the next time I catch her in the middle of a scheme. Uses her "struggles" with being the single mommy of an illegitimate daughter to gain attention and favor. In actuality, is out drinking 7 nights a week-the child's grandparents are de facto parents.
3. Pregnant hillbilly chick #1. 8.5 months pregnant with 4th child, and still doing physically demanding work (too big a loser to take off from work for a couple weeks). Has bullshit "moral superiority" thing going because she is actually married to the father of her children. Is hellishly puritanical, judgemental and hypocritical, and prone to freaky mood swings. I'm repressing the urge to tell her if she and husband were that fucking cool, she would be comfortably waiting at home for the contractions to start, not at work having freaky mood swings.
4. Pregnant hillbilly chick #2. Also 8.5 months pregnant. "Baby's Daddy" just left her (she is "Babies Momma #3 for him, and she was still surprised to find out that she wasn't the "forever love"). Too far along in the pregancy to do her job anymore, and foists work off on others, but again, can't afford to take off work. Being kicked out of Ma and Paw's house for getting impregnated by a biracial guy. Also, just generally annoying as hell, but that is just her personality.
5. Pregnant (?) hillbilly chick #3 - Purportedly pregnant (reports vary?-may be faking it. Has reently reported "miscarriage", and then re-pregnation). Prone to non-specific unverifyable gynecological issue ("gushing"), causing her to leave and take off work pretty much with impunity, possibly actually in response to control freak boyfriends demands.
6. Non-pregnant hillbilly chick. Boyfriend is in jail (hence the non-pregnant).
Sucks mondo ass at her job, so much so that shit is starting to come down on everyone over her failures. In the interest of honesty, she is reasonably pleasant to be around.
7. Boss. 40ish bitter old maid. Scarily incompetent, and prone to psychotic behavior, mood swings.
I'm in hell. I'm looking at taking maybe a 20% pay cut to get out.
There are a few good AWs left but you must comb the country for one. My older brother got lucky after looking for 4 years and met her in one of his business travels. He met her in a diner in Springfield, Ohio while on his lunch break. Now they are married for 9 years with 1 son. I figure that they love each other and they are never getting a divorce. They passed the 7 year itch even. My sister-in-law is one of those .3%.
I, however, dated more women in this city and never found any good ones. The chances of finding the .3% in big cities is even slimmer. I would say that .00001% of the big city women are good. Country girls or more likely to put out and stay married than city bitches.
I have noticed that the AWs in the areas hit by the hurricane are acting a lot more friendly and are quite willing to put out especially if you're visiting from out of town. In fact, it is such easy pickings that even I have been tempted to break my "No Fucking AW" policy.
One temptress in particular happens to be an Anna Nicole blonde Creole chick, nice figure and not fat at all. From the first day I met her she has been giving me the look that a hungry lioness gives a grazing gazelle. She has been unsually friendly for an AW and gives piercing eye contact with a come fuck me look that I have only seen foreign chicks pull off. Now I'm here toying with the idea of running her through with my rod a couple of times based on some outstanding pass performance in the BJ department that I've experienced from Southern blondes in the past. I have never sampled something from this deep in the South before, so it might be my curiosity also.
On the other hand, I keep thinking that I might have to deal with some of the typical AW bullshit after having my nut sack drained, and then I would think that it wasn't worth it in the first place. I don't want a GF and I'm pretty sure that this chick is looking for a BF which could result in a problem. I'm trying my best not to give in to my horniness in spite of the obvious provocations. Usually the easier it is to get in the harder it is to get out. If she keeps up her behavior though, I can't guarantee that I wouldn't take her back to my RV and come in her a couple of times.
My policy of banning American women outright has not changed and will not change in the near future.
CBGB,
I can definitely understand why you would maintain your ban. Porking an AW is not something to be taken lightly. I am sure that my ambivalence on whether to pork or not to pork this particular AW has a lot to do with the fact that my current assignment will preclude me from having the customary overseas oil change for an extended period of time. However, it will allow me to get a full over-haul for as much as a year at my destination of choice when it's all finished.
I usually have no problem ignoring AWs because in general they expect to be pursued while acting as the best thing on the market. This situation seems to have taken a different and rather interesting twist. I can't help but wonder what the motives are behind it, even though they may be the usual ones.
It's funny how AW abuse their sexual power. Some of them will provoke you with no intention of doing anything with you. In other words, they will tease you through the entire process, from penetrating eye contact from across the room, to giving you their number and promising to go out with you.
Now this is where the trouble starts. You will get the "Sure, we can hang out, but I'm busy right now. Call me tomorrow." Then you call the next day and she says "Oh, sorry. Something has come up, but I will get back to you."
Or even better, she will give you her number, dodge your phone calls and ignore your messages. That is grossly irrespnsible and shows a total disregard for men altogether (it also shows a lack of causal thinking, because eventually these nice guys will lose interest in women if most women act this way.)
Yes, if AW continue to do such things - cock-teasing, attention-whoring, and flaking - then more and more men will get exasperated and say "Fuck these bitches." :)
I have tried explaining this concept to foreign women. They simply dont understand how difficult Ameribitches truly are.
American women simply dont understand that when they make the game the way it is currently, it simply means that they are making it ripe for players. The players dont truly care about relationships. They just want pussy. Then American women get mad when you just want to fuck them or when they get treated like dirt. Maybe if they were nicer to men more of the 'non-jerk' type would hit on them.
But I do believe this process is almost self-fulfilling. American women are bitches so the only ones with confidence enough to approach them are the jerks-players. So American women see jerks as the men with confidence. They start to prefer the jerks because they possess these 'manly traits.' (So if you dont approach one of them, then they're going to assume you arent 'man enough' anyway.)
Things dont have to be that way - if only American women were responsible with the sexual power they have (i.e. not cockteasing, flaking, and cruely rejecting men) and initiated relationships part of the time. By using this passive strategy of attraction combined with their cockteasing/flaky behavior, they weed out virtually all of the men who are capable of treating them with respect.
I am truly happy most of these bitches will pursue careers from ages 16-35, while fucking every bad boy, ex-convict, and thug they can get their hands on, and when they turn 36 and realize they want a husband and kids, they'll find that the nice guys they ignored during their youth have learned to live without them. And even if they do find a guy who's crazy enough to marry them, they will have great difficult conceiving a child, and even greater difficulting having one without chromosomal abnormalities.
Serves you right. Yes, I have taken great joy at reading those articles where older women write in to Dear Abby (or whoever) and complain that they are former model, high-powered executives but no man wants to date them.
Chocha,
You're quite right about screwing AW.
Had a one night stand years ago with an attractive AW (OK, they do exist I guess). After the deed, we're resting in bed, she lights up a cigarette and starts talking about our now being "engaged." ENGAGED??? ENGAGED??? I thought that she was kidding or psychotic or something. Apparently, this chick thought that if you have sex with her that you're now "engaged" to her. I got out of there so fast that I think I left skid marks!
Has anyone else run into this line of thinking that if you have sex with an AW that you're now engaged??? To this day, that event really shaped my views of AW.
Paddy,
That particular AW was quite bold to vocalize such a declaration. She must have been really convinced that she had you by the balls. Usually they don't say anything after you screw them but they start showing up and calling on a regular basis. Shortly there-after they start bitching about the time you're spending with your buddies and before you know it you have a girlfriend.
They just kind of sneak up on you with it. Sometimes you don't even have to screw them, they start doing little things for you as a "friend" but then get pissed if you fuck someone else. One must always be vigilant for this kind of creep towards a relationship when dealing with AW. Most guys don't even see the whole marriage and kids thing until it hits them, then they realize that it was all meticulously planned from the start by the woman. How many men do you think actually plan on impregnating a woman?
I am glad to see that you are on your guard. This one smells funny-American Girls generally aren't don't make themselves easily available, unless you are rich, very good looking, or both (supply and demand rears it's ugly head against them, instead of us). Even when they seem to, it is usually a game, such as where I have seen a fugly girl wave the possibility of easy pussy around (no one would bother with her otherwise), but as soon as she gets a couple of takers, she starts throwing up hoops for them to jump through.
My thought is that she is looking for a little "sugar" to maybe get her past a tough time. If that is the case, know that for what it is (prostitution), and treat it accordingly. And watch your ass-lot a them thair girls don't mind a young-un around, especially when it comes with an 18 year cash annuity.
PS Those of you on on the coasts who think that we have it easy in the Midwest (rustbelt), should read my last post. The problems are different, but I assure you that there isn't very much around that I would consider putting a wedding ring on.
Tyhigs77,
You're right about American chicks often going through extraordinary lengths to pull your cock with no intention of doing anything else except frustrating you. Cock-pulling is a national sport for American women. If you visit a bar or club you'll see AW pulling cock all night for drinks or just to show off to their friends. They will spend all night toying with and wasting a guy's time and then leave without giving so much as a phone number.
I don't frequent bars or clubs for the above reasons. I have observed AWs in my company making little bets with each other at the bar as to whether or not some poor sucker will buy them drinks after they give him "the look". They feel really powerful and sexy when they can lead a guy on and get something for nothing. One AW that I know very well told me that she goes out to the night spots when she needs her ego stroked. This is very sad indeed when a woman must go out to play with guys and bullshit them just because her self-esteem or whatever happens to be low.
Since I know all of their games, I never ask AW for a number or even ask them out at all. Doing so would give them a chance to play games with me. Instead I use their own childish need for an ego boost against them. I simply act oblivious to their cock-teasing, this will make some of them dismiss me as being gay or an idiot for not reacting to their obvious "charms" but ever so often I will run into one who loves a challenge. This one will elevate her game gradually until she gets my attention. What she doesn't know is that my indifference will continue until I cum in her pussy, for this and nothing less is what is required to get my attention.
So ironically the best way to fuck an AW is to put no effort into it. All the AW I have fucked in the past pretty much ended up spreading it in this manner. It was all spontaneous fucking, I knew that they desperately wanted my attention and would do whatever it took to get it just to prove something to themselves. All it took on my part was some patience, not caring either way and having a condom handy when the moment came.
Invariably the women that give it up in the manner will ask, "Do you love me?" or they will say something stupid like, "I guess we're dating now." They still need their little acknowledgement of victory. If you tell them no at this point and say that it wasn't what they thought all along things can get really interesting.
Its easy for me to ban American women because I live 9000 miles away on the other side of the Pacific. Dickhead is the other lucky soul since he lives 8000 miles away on the other pole of the Earth in BA.
i remember vaguely a couple of times when i got the "all systems go" signals from chicks only to have them do an utter and total 180 degree turn when i attempted to "close the sale". i was completely baffled at this insane behavior until releatively recently when i happened upon the discovery that aw's will fuck with a man (without the slightest intent of reciprocating his interest) with the sole purpose of seeing if they "have it". "it" being the ability to attract a man and be the center of his attention and possibly turn him into "sucker for a day". they (aw's) claim that men's egos are fragile. i'll give them that, but if a aw puts out positive signals and a smart guy doesn't take the bait, observe now when the pot calls the kettle black. they will be like the fox in aesop's fable and claim "sour grapes".
Tyhigs77,
you brought up a point I made quite a while ago about younger AW's. During their more attractive years, they become aware of their attractiveness and sexual powers and abuse those powers like there's no tomorrow. After all, earning another notch (broken heart, "used" schlup, or financial sucker) is a testament to how hot she is and feeds her ego like an engineer feeding a ravenous coal-burning train of yesteryear. This outrageous behavior gives rise to two outcomes: 1] as she grows older, she now realizes that she has YOUNGER COMPETITION! "Food" is now becoming more scarce, and she has to "hunt" for easier, although possibly LESS ATTRACTIVE prey/suckers. 2] There is almost NO guy out there that hasn't run into this type of barracuda, and therefore, REMEMBERS when this type of woman either MADE him a sucker or ATTEMPTED to. Instead of wisely using her powers in her younger years to couple with a guy who is marriageable material, she's left with a pool of undesirables (1] the bad boy who will NEVER commit and leave her as a single mother only to re-enter her life periodically to deposit MORE of his seed or 2] the spineless schlup who is so grateful to be with her that he takes her shit until he can take it no longer). Either way, her NOW-present choices are the result of a lack of foresight. THIS is the typical man-hating "bitter b*tch" in her 30's that you encounter. It's ALWAYS: "He was never enough THIS", "He was too much THAT". NEVER do you hear them say anything similar to: "I had to change my bahavior/outlook/expectations".
[quote=Sinanju Master]It's ALWAYS: "He was never enough THIS", "He was too much THAT". NEVER do you hear them say anything similar to: "I had to change my bahavior/outlook/expectations".[/quote]
That's another thing I've found with American women: it's always [i]someone else's[/i] fault, never their own.
.....there is always a sucker out there-one born every minute. I mentioned a while ago, my old high school best friend who I found out married some fugly bimbo and adopted her kids. I wasn't around to see the whole story, but I am sure that he was just thrilled to have a woman, after being one of the "passed over" for years.
Someone mentioned ignoring girls as they jump up and down to get your attention. That works well. Something else that works even better is picking on them and making fun of them. For some reason they LOVE this-it's basically a way to be percieved as manly and powerful, while not being an actual "loser bad boy". One of my favorite routines busting on a young looking girl age 18 plus...."I wouldn't let you into a PG 13 movie". "When you turn 16, are mommy and daddy going to let you get your drivers license..." You guys get the idea.
There's this new book that's coming out. It's called The Game. Has anybody here heard about it?
It's supposed to be chock full of insights into female psychology. As far as I know, it's a systematic compolation of strategies that work on North A,erican women. Not only that, but the authors apparently delve into WHY these strategies are so effective.
I'd love to buy this book but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere.
Rock
[QUOTE=Rock Dog]There's this new book that's coming out. It's called The Game. Has anybody here heard about it?
It's supposed to be chock full of insights into female psychology. As far as I know, it's a systematic compolation of strategies that work on North A,erican women. Not only that, but the authors apparently delve into WHY these strategies are so effective.
I'd love to buy this book but I haven't seen it for sale anywhere.
Rock[/QUOTE]It is on amazon dot com. I bought a copy last week. I have skimmed the first two chapters. I dont like the way he teaches the techniques. He tells the story by telling us the story of his life, and the game strategy pieces are interspersed. It is a pain in the ass for me to read cause I want to get to the meat. Most of the crap is just gravy, which pisses me off and bores me.
From a lot of my experiences, outside of North America and the UK, the niceguy approach seems to be the easiest way to score. In the US, Canada, and UK, women want the badboy types, at least the more attractive ones. When I was in Europe last fall, by doing simple gentlemanly things, like opening doors for women, I was able to get a lot of phone numbers. I could not believe how easy most Central and Eastern European are compared to their North American counterparts, despite the fact that these women have physical and ethnic similarities to most American women. The feeling reminded me of my first year in Australia when I hooked up with women by saying stupid things and every time they bought it. If you use the niceguy approach with a North American woman, she is going to think "What the hell does this guy want from me??"
Speaking of approaches, I know a lot of people who go to seminars on picking up women in the US. There are guys who pay hundreds to thousands of dollars getting "coaching" as if something is wrong with them, its one of the biggest ponzi schemes out there. I haven't seen these seminars outside of North America.
Back in '92 I bought a book by Ross Jefrries that espouses the same idea that I'm sure "the Game" does. It basically says that you gotta picture yourself having the cojones enough to walk up to a woman and ask her out as if you expect that the ONLY answer she will provide is a resounding "Yes". I use that same concept to this day along with some ideas that are espoused by "Doc Love". It is a GREAT way to weed out the undesirables UP FRONT! Even though I was shot down in one attempt, I walked up to a BUILT college cutie in the middle of a crowded diner one morning and laid it on the line when I asked her out. Had I NOT read the material and applied it, I would NEVER have thought of even APPROACHING her. A couple of times I applied the teachings, my intended targets actually complimented me on the balls it must have taken to approach them in such a bold fashion. One of the chicks that complimented me was right in front of her co-workers when I was making a delivery. Even though I didn't score, the flustered, off-balance look on her face was priceless.
At one point, as I was looking for answers for to correct the inability to date after I got out of a traditional college environment, I read just about everything on the market about success in dating. I can definitively state that of what is out there, 99.999% is useless, complete, and utter bullshit, and a waste of paper. Dedicatedly following the advice of one tome in particular "Love Tactics" turned me from a fairly normal boneheaded kid (but still one who stumbled into an occassional piece of ass and a girlfriend or two) into a wimpy, obsequious ass kisser/borderline stalker who spent more years than I care to think abouit in a state of unloved celibacy. Granted, some good did come of that, as the result of that is lack of what would be by now a ***** ex wife, and child support payments.....but I digress.
For those interested (I personally don't care enough about getting AW to really bother implementint the advice in the US), the following books/guru's etc. have some validity to their methodology in my opinion:
1. "How to succeed with women" by Louis and Copeland was my first real awakening to how the female mind worked, and addressed getting past the "screens" that they put up to weed out "undesireables". Worth a look, although they don't really (as I recall-been a while since reading) the roles of masculinity/femininity, and submission/dominance (I"m referring to normal interactions, not S&M). Can be obtained on Amazon, or in many bookstores.
2. "How to Date Young Women-for men over 35" is also very informative. It deals extensively with feminine psychology, and what the interior process of the (young) woman is like. Facinating read. Now the author is (Don Steele) can be bit of a.self righteous ass for lack of a better description, but his work is absolutely worth taking a look at. His books are on Amazon, and also can be obtained at steelballs.com
3, David Deangelo of doubleyourdating.com was my most recent find. I bought his e-book, and found his material to be highly derivative of that which has come before (he read the same stuff I did, but managed to create a workable system out of it), He also has a free e-mail distribution list, which is fairly informative. The thing that makes Deangelo worthwhile is his invention of "cocky and funny", which is basically fucking with women (establishing dominance, and rising above their bullshit in a "jerk like" manner....but without having to be a useless bad boy loser), but doing so in a humorous fashion. I can tell you that it is a lot more fun fucking with women than it is to follow them around kissing their asses.
That is all,
"Bart9K"
The personal responsibility thing-hypothetical example:
Girl, age 23 has a "nice" (faithful, generous, kind, earns a good living, planning to marry her....) boyfriend. Girl goes to "girls night out", and ends up blowing sexy bad boy loser in the parking lot. Girl then rationalizes this behavior, not as "I feel guilty, I did a bad thing", but instead of "That guy came onto me, it's HIS fault.....Plus I must not be sexually satisfied if I did something like that which is boyfriend's fault......and boyfriend forgot my Mother's birthday...."
Now obviously infidelity exists in every culture (less so of course in places where they punish it by death of course). My question however is do women in other cultures manage to completely divorce themselves from responsibility for their actions, or is this just and AW thing?
Bart9000 -
I'd agree with you on Don Steele - read that book fifteen years ago. I get DeAngelo's free e-mail - worthwhile to read through.
I would definitely add Doc Love, even though I've never purchased his material. He does have a free weekly letter response on his web-site (new every Thursday). Very solid thinking.
You are right - everything else I've read is largely B.S.
Jak, I would DEFINITELY encourage any guy to purchase Doc Love's material! I bought the "Dating Dictionary" (it lists from A to Z the do's and don'ts of the dating arena) and the book "The System". BOTH books are over 200 pages, but I tore through them like a man who had JUST learned to read and wanted to read MORE! My typical thoughts while reading these gems were: "What the fuck"?, "... but I thought....", "So THAT'S why....", "I THOUGHT SO..." and so on! Now, I'm able to weed out lying, time-wasting, resource-sapping phonies quicker than Simon Cowell can give a thumbs down to a clueless and talentless American Idol reject. Let me put it this way: the money you would spend on THIS material is LESS than what you would spend on some dorsal-finned, smooth-talking AW who would charm your money out of you before you knew what happened.
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]
...but every so often I will run into one who loves a challenge. This one will elevate her game gradually until she gets my attention. What she doesn't know is that my indifference will continue until I cum in her pussy, for this and nothing less is what is required to get my attention. [/QUOTE]
And...
[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]
So ironically the best way to fuck an AW is to put no effort into it.
I knew that they desperately wanted my attention and would do whatever it took to get it just to prove something to themselves. All it took on my part was some patience, not caring either way and having a condom handy when the moment came. [/QUOTE]
Chocha Monger,
That is some really great writing, so clear and so true. Obviously, you are a man who understands the basic nature of AW. Isn't truth a beautiful thing to discover? It's so exhilarating, as well as liberating.
Like reaching the summit of a mountain, after a long, hard climb, and seeing the world for the first time - as it truly is.
A little economic commentary mixed in with some amusing observations on male-female relationships and social status in the United States. Of course these comparisons would ring true most anywhere in the world, perhaps. It's just that we here in the U.S. are blessed (cursed?) with the world's largest economy, therefore keeping up with the Joneses involves spending more money than most other places. Nothing earth shattering here, but a good read nonetheless.
P.S. - this article was written pre-Katrina, before the gas price shock had cut into the sales of Hummers
from The Daily Reckoning, by Bill Bonner <http://dailyreckoning.com/index.html>
It's all sex and lies.
Everything. The debt bubble. The real estate bubble. The trade deficit bubble.
Why is there a $600 billion trade deficit? Because Americans want to buy things they can't afford. Why do they buy things they can't afford? To pretend to be richer than they are. Why do they want to be appear richer than they are? Because it gives them higher social status. Why do they want higher about social status? So they will have better access to the opposite sex.
We are back in the United States after an absence of several months. Suddenly, the roads are crowded with Hummers. Why would anyone want to drive around in a big, awkward, ugly, expensive car when a small, cheap one would get him where he was going just as well? Because they want to "maximize their inclusive fitness" say scientists. They want as many of their genes floating around the gene pool as possible. The Hummer is like long, bright tail feathers on a bird. Or a big rack of antlers on a deer. From a utilitarian point of view, they are worthless. Worse than worthless, as a matter of fact. They increase the risk that rivals and predators will notice the animal. They take energy to carry around. And they slow the animal down, making it hard for him to maneuver in a fight or to get away.
The huge cars are only useful, near as anyone who thinks about such matters can figure, as conspicuous consumption; they wink to the opposite sex that the animal is game for a little hanky-panky. If he can carry around all that extra baggage and still survive, he must be tough. So, too, if a person can live in a McMansion and drive a Hummer without going bankrupt, he must be a good prospect for a date.
But it's all relative. If everybody on the block buys a Hummer and puts in a swimming pool, the man who has those things already loses his edge. He has to spend even more - bringing himself even closer to bankruptcy - in order to show off. What can he do? Write poetry and put a feminist bumper sticker on his old Hummer?
"Forget sensitivity," said a woman over dinner last night. "The man must show that he's capable...that he's strong...that he knows what he's doing."
"Yeah," said a divorced friend who has been studying dating strategies, "you have to be 'the man with the plan.' You signal to the woman that you've got it figured out...that your time is valuable...and that, if she wants to hook up with you, she can to so, but only on your terms. What you don't want to do is to take her out on a date and spend a lot of money on her. You have to show that you have a lot of money, but you don't want to give her the impression that she'll be in charge of how it is spent. That would start the relationship off on the wrong foot."
Women aren't stupid, of course. They know you can move into a McMansion with no money down and no money anywhere else. They know you can lease a Hummer and buy an Armani suit with credit cards. They try to find out if the man really has money or not. It is the beginning of the battle between the sexes. The man tries to deceive the woman about his fitness for procreation. The woman tries to detect the deception, while deceiving him - with make-up and various artifices - about her own attractiveness. The poor man has to show more and more evidence that he's really the one with the large rack and the bright feathers. He has to take on more and more expensive burdens. Second and third houses...European vacations...a home theatre...cosmetic surgery. The schmuck needs to spend, spend, spend - or he's going to be spending his nights alone.
You might say that a "smart" woman would see her way through the foolishness of it all and prefer a man with no desire to show off - maybe a good, solid schoolteacher who cares about the environment and drives an old Pinto. But if she mates with such a man, she dooms her offspring, say the scientists, for the man is likely to father sons much like himself - men who are only attractive to smart women. How many of them are there? Her own genes will find fewer opportunities for reproductive success, in other words...and what's so smart about that?
In order to spread her genes as widely as possible, a woman needs offspring, particularly males, who are "high ranking," - that is, those who can carry around gaudy expenses without going broke. Her best strategy is to make with a high ranking male. Her good fortune would be to have many sons with him - high ranking boys who would find many mates of their own. And for that she must make herself as desirable to him as possible. This, too, begins with deception and often ends in disappointment. She must spend much of her time and money as though she were a candidate for public office - that is, deceiving people about what she is. The scientists call it "impression management." She must appear high ranking - by wearing expensive clothes instead of cheap ones...by driving an expensive car, rather than a cheap one...by living at an expensive address...eating in expensive restaurants...going on expensive vacations and sporting expensive jewelry. She must also appear as physically attractive as possible.
Remember, it's all about sex.
American Women in general always act like they are the victims in any case. They blame the man if they cheat by saying he came on to her. Then they blame the man for losing half of her life through marriage so in divorce she sues him for half of his hard earned money even if all she does is just sit at home and eat ice cream all day instead of getting a career. The husbands that deserve this would be the overbearing and abusive husband that these laws are aimed towards. However, all of us have fallen victim to these laws because they generalize ALL men as the same. Again this is another blame shift because women blame ALL MEN for their problems. I always hear AWs say," he took away my 20s", like it is the ex-husband's fault they got married and divorced. Then they go through numerous other guys and then she breaks up with them and then it is HIS fault they broke up even though she was the one nagging them until their ears fall off.
In any case, AWs were brought up to be blame shifters and that is why we have all these ridiculous laws and lawsuits. We have all of these censorship laws because these old hags blame television for bad influences when it is really their poor upbringing of their kids. An old AW blamed McDonald's for having coffee too hot and burning her. We live in a blame shift society that negatively influences our country's women. This "victim mentality" is the root of all of our problems with AWs. All the other continents' courts would not allow even a hundredth of these crazy blame-shifting lawsuits because they would laugh them out of court.
I downloaded some homemade porn. It was a young couple maybe 19-20 years old. The 40 minute clip consisted of about 5 minutes of him fucking her, and 35 minutes of him eating her out. A couple of times she did reach over and give him a couple of half-hearted strokes as she was getting munched. Appearently, this guy, despite being obviously more than willing to go down on her, doesn't get head. And they want to ***** about inequality.
I used to work with this girl. One day she was waving around an (presumably) expensive ring from her boyfriend, saying "this is what you get when you go down on a guy". I actually told my female boss about this, with the addition "If the boy discovers hookers, it's all over with for her".
This of course has absolutely zero scientific validity due to a variety of factors (potential staging, only showing successes, small sample, etc). However, there is a derivative of the "Girls Gone Wild" materials which shows how "girl next door" types act with male strippers.
One production company for this type of material is "Party Hardcore". They film in the Czech Republic, and throw parties where they put, male strippers, "girl next door types", and also self admitted "plants"-female sex performers to "break the ice" and get things started.
Another company is "Loverboys". They film in the UK and/or the US at bachelorette parties, and strip clubs.
Interestingly, I watched a "Party Hardcore" scene. With the exception of the "plants" (who are easily identified by their appearance at multiple parties, and also their general appearance-tattoos and piercings), only one Czech girl in about 50 got into the action-she took off all her clothes, and allowed a stripper to fondle her, as she made out and gave him a couple of body kisses, as a "plant" sucked him off. Although the others did bump and grind a little bit with the guys, they mostly abstained.
Conversely, in the "Loverboys" material, I witnessed a table of four UK/US women who did not APPEAR (they were "young wifey type") to be performers, each concurrently take the strippers cock into their mouth, with only very mild hesitation (one cupped her hands around his dick so that her friends would not see it going in and out of her mouth).
Judging exclusively from this very non scientific evidence, it appears that relatively speaking Western Women are *****s in the street and ladies in the bedroom. Conversely, the relative opposite appears to be true for EE.
Bart
Bart9000:
Refering to your comparison of AWs and EE women and their behavior, I think one of the most notable differences is that EE women are more interested in successful men then merely good-looking ones.
It isnt only that EE women are interested in money and the comfort money can bring, which is an understandable factor considering the changes their countries have gone through, but successful men are generally considered to be more manly and more desirable. Basic social Darwinism.
This will likely change with time. I think it is only a matter of time before "Western" dating and mating principles corrupt EE as well as EE women become more independent and copy the ways of the West, which they are being forced fed by both Western TV culture and their own... which is based on those Western TV recipes which prove successful. I dont want to paint too bleak of a picture and it will likely never reach the catastrophic state that it has in the US, but the Earth's few paradises are becoming fewer and fewer with each pop culture media-bloated year.
Fuck while you can get it.
Based on my own experience as a high school student and in college before I "saw the light", American men are seemingly conditioned to believe that sex is the "end all be all" of human existence and that the only way to get it is by kissing a girls ass.... figuratively and unfortunately not literally.
Nowhere else on the planet, except maybe those other Anglo paradises like England and Australia, will you see so many genuinely likable and even good-looking men with absolutely horrible looking and disgustingly behaving girlfriends and wives.
When I visit the US I genuinely feel sorry for my brethren and feel like enlightening them... they have no idea how much quality and appreciative pussy they could get elsewhere.
I maintain my theory that American men are collectively mutually responsible for the poor state of affairs that exists in relation to women there. I was equally guilty of this sort of weakness until I went to Europe as a student and seemingly fucked the entire dormitory full of Irish, French, German and Swedish girls. It completely changed my attitude and upon the return to the US did much better with women there as well. Like a resurrection. All it took was a change of attitude.
In any case there is nothing to lose in trying. Getting rejected can be taken with humour. We arent trying to fall in love with these girls (at least I presume not)... we just want to fuck them, and you'll never get "game" unless you practice.
If all else fails, go to AMPs, Mexico, Thailand, Montreal, DomRep or whereever and practice on hos... :)
Doctor_Skank,
I agree 100%. For me ignorance was bliss until I fucked up and joined the Navy (and ended up travelling the globe). Now I see AW's as nothing more than occasional cum receptacles to which I'm not nearly as attracted as I used to be. Amazing how a nasty attitude can turn a "9" into a "3" real quick, but they still have the attitudes because American men think this is normal. We'll put up with all sorts of nonsense to get that fish taco because we think we [u]have to[/u] and it's the only way. It's not that AW's are the only game in town; it's that they are the only game that American men know about. Of course, those of us who were/are lucky enough to see other cultures know better.
I guess it's hard to believe the grass is greener on the other side of the fence when you don't even know the other side exists.
There are many reasons why women behave differently in other countries. I put the blame on economics as one major factor. In the US there are millions of well to do or wealthy professional men out there, an attractive woman in America will always go for these guys hands down. Most people I have spoken with who have dealt with American women know that they worship money more than any other national group of females. I traveled to many countries and nowhere have women hit me up for money than in the US. Even in other affluent Western countries, I live in Australia for the time being, and have not been hit up the same way as I have with AWs who really will look at you as a walking cash machine.
I do agree with Doctor Skank that the collective behavior of men sucking up to women as prizes really ruins male-female relationships in the US. Money is another factor that plays into all of this.
i also would blame our country's double standard in the aws upbringing for the way aws behave. a promiscuous girl here in the us is looked down upon as a **** while a promiscuous guy doesn't have a negative name. because of this negativity towards promiscuous females, aws tend to overvalue their sexuality and think that they would need to ask more for their sexual favors than in europe or south america where sex is more accepted for females. aws tend to think of sex as "dirty" rather than pleasurable, unlike europe. american fathers also instill puritan standards to their daughters from birth and are often overprotective. american women therefore grow up hating men and think that men are just authorative and instead become feminist lesbians. american mothers instill the gift of greed and tell their daughters to go for the wealthiest guy. in the us, even a poor brad pitt looking guy cannot match up against the toupee donning donald trump.
I think there are more reasons than simply the financial requirements of women. The countries of the US, Canada, Nz and Oz were founded by the British. The Victorian constructs/Puritanical rules elevate women's status above men's. Women are taught to hold out for only the best. So they have very unrealistic standards. After all, they are women, and just because they are women they feel they are entitled to everything and anything they want at any time without consequences.
It is the puritanical and Victorian belief that women are more important than men which make them unbearable. So you have the majority of American men chasing something that has an artificially inflated value. This further exacerbates the problem. Because women will be sought after no matter what, they see their own value as more than a man who's actually her equal.
Also because it is considered misogynistic to criticize anything about women, there is nothing stopping women from treating men ruthlessly. American women are the most neurotic and fickle. This can be traced directly back to Victorian/Puritanical constructs.
I had a friend who worked as a busboy in a country club and he used to see some rather fat slobs with gorgeous women, it all boiled down to the fact that these guys had money.
American and Canadian women are the face of pure evil, honestly when I look at one I see the representative of Satan. British women are at least somewhat human, and French Canadian women are exempt from my smear.
It seems that globalization is indeed a double-edged sword. It makes possible cheap airfare which allows us to visit the delectable foreign pussy we all crave, while at the same time corrupting this very same pussy with man-hating propaganda.
Unfortunately, in 15-20 years or so, if peak oil really does occur, global mobility won't be nearly as cheap as it is today (barring some energy miracle breakthrough, of course). Mass communication will still exist however, pumping out the feminist agenda.
"Fuck while you can" seems to be the order of the day.
I think we as American males are partially responsible for the outrageous behaviour we see in american women. If we behaved as real MEN these women would have no choice but behave. Partaking in this hobby has allowed me to see how women think. Give a woman an inch and she will always without exception take a mile. I mix kindness, respect with firmness and let em know I will not put up with any bullshit. For example a black lady whom I must have seen 3 or 4 times, figured I was pussywhipped and tried to short my time and then upcharge me in the middle of a session. I got up, dressed and left, and swore to myself that she would never see me again. She now realizes how much money she has lost because she has called me every month for the past year offering all kinds of specials. As far as i'm concerned she has lost my business for GOOD. My advice treat them em with kindness, respect and put up with no bullshit or you are out.
Don't be pussywipped.
It doesn't really matter if you come across with a "take-no-bullshit" attitude. There are so many other guys out there who are desperate for any kind of action. These are the ones who have spoiled the game for the rest of us.
We ourselves contribute to the attitude problem that women have. As has been mentioned recently, we collectively instill the attitude that girls who put out are bad and girls who hold out are good. It's ironic, because that means that we hate the very thing we so eagerly seek..... free and easy women who will give us what we want whenever we want it.
I think it all boils down to selfishness. As men, we want access to the p*ssy, but only for ourselves. Once we get it, we tend to guard it jealously because it was so hard to get in the first place. Since there's always going to be a 50/50 ratio of men to women, this means having multiple female partners will always be fairly hard to achieve for an average man.
It's good to approach a woman with a confident attitude. But what good is that if it gets you one of the women that we all love to complain about so much? I find that years of rejections and disappointments had worn my confidence level down to zero. I'd see a good looking girl and think to myself "why even bother? Even if she's interested, she's probably a b*tch anyways."
Interestingly enough, when I"m travelling abroad, my confidence level soars to incredible heights. I can approach ANY woman without the slightest hesitation. I'd suspect that a lot of other WSG members have found this to be true as well.
Comments?
Rock
[QUOTE=Bart9000]Judging exclusively from this very non scientific evidence, it appears that relatively speaking Western Women are *****s in the street and ladies in the bedroom. Conversely, the relative opposite appears to be true for EE.
Bart[/QUOTE]I've a lot of experience with Asian women, ones who were born/raised there, NOT Asian-American. They are proper ladies in public & nasty yummy *****s in the bedroom. Very healthy open & natural about sex.
I think the double standard about good/bad girls that is not held the same to men, is largely self-inflicted. The cruel devious manner in which women stab each other in the back through vicious gossip far outdoes anything a guy would say about them. Witness female genital mutilation in Africa: it's the women who perpetuate & perpetrate it.
But I hardly believe that materialism is an exclusive province of AW. There was a Chinese newspaper report of a BMW owner in China who received a love letter on his windshield. It said "You drive such a beautiful car. I love you. I want to marry you." She hadn't even seen the owner, just the parked car!
I hear ya, Rock Dog. To me, being in the US and having access to nothing but AW's is like wearing a Kryptonite necklace as far as confidence is concerned. I mean, how long can a guy meet cold, jaded chicks who have all the warmth and personality of a prison guard and keep his head up? Whenever I LEAVE these shores on my occasional travels, though, I become the Last Son of Krypton.
I was watching the newsmagazine 20/20 and they were featuring the book: "The Game". Yes, the same pickup artist book that was recently discussed on this board. When I heard some of the shit that elicited a POSITIVE response from the AW's, I thought to myself: "What fucking PLANET are these broads from"? Basically, whenever I've heard someone say similar shit, the chick would look at the guy as if he were an alien life form that would be inconceivable to the human imagination. I think when God created AW's he did so WITHOUT reading the instruction manual (from Heavenly Depot) and when he realized he fucked up, MRS. God got on his ass and set him straight. Hence, honeys from SA and EE. Any thoughts on this, my bretheren?
Civil Union Law Takes Effect in Conn.
By CARA RUBINSKY, Associated Press Writer
After receiving their civil union license Saturday, Lidia Agramonte and Maria Gomez had all the same rights as a married couple in Connecticut. But they couldn't find words to describe their union.
"The hardest thing is, what do you call yourself, civilized?" said Agramonte, 47, a social worker from New Britain. "There are no words for it yet."
The women were the first in line at Hartford City Hall as a new law allowing same-sex civil unions took effect. City halls in Hartford, Stamford, New Haven and a half-dozen small towns held special weekend hours to issue certificates to couples who said they waited for years to be legally recognized.
Connecticut became the first state to legalize civil unions without being forced by the courts after lawmakers passed a law endorsing the unions in April. Massachusetts allows gay marriages and Vermont recognizes civil unions because of lawsuits.
Rock Dog, you are right about the confidence part. Due to the hard time that AWs have given me (misleading signals, flakiness, prerogative to change their minds without cause), I am nervous around even the plain ones.
When I see a Polish/Russian/Ukrainian girl here in NJ, I can usually tell just by looking at their faces (can anyone else tell the difference or is it just me?). I've had no problem going up and talking to them. Usually I say something like "Hey, are you European <big smile>?" They have been extremely nice so far. They are even nicer than the western European women I've met, and I think western European women are great (except the British).
You know, I think that I could cope with AW if as previously postulated they were simply into guys with success and money-then you could just work hard, get it and have them. The simple truth of the matter is that they will use guys like this to obtain an easy life, but still either screw around on the side with bad boy losers, or follow a pattern of chasing them all over the place while they are young and hot, and then as they slow down, and widen a bit, decide to land a "good guy" (nice, kind, generous, hard working) to foot the bills, give her a nice comfortable life, and let her spit out a couple of munchkins. Both of those patterns play the "good guy" for a chump, the first obviously as an infidelity, and the second in depriving the "good guy" of what is generally considered to be the girl's most attractive desireable years.
I used to know a girl who was an absolute vicious cut-throat *****. She had absolutely zero concern for the welfare of anyone else (I let her move into an extra bedroom as a roomate-she refused to pay me a dime for three months of room and board, and ripped me off for about five hundred dollars) This is the kind of chick that wouldn't [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] on someone who was burning to death.
However, this girl had a guy. He (in the interest of honesty)wasn't the worst guy in the world, but basically regarded her as a convenient cum receptical (I can't even say he was a cheater, as he basically told her "I'm going to fuck other girls-If you don't like it, GO AWAY"). For this guy, the girl would crawl through 10 miles of sewers. for the privledge of doing his laundry. I'm exaggerating of course, but in actuality, she would literally drive a 65 mile round trip 6-7 days a week to be his booty call. In a couple more years, she will probably settle for a "nice guy", get married and have a couple of kids, but if you were the chump she married, if you found out, how would you feel knowing the woman that you beg for marital sex used to give slavish devotion to a guy who wasn't particularly concerned whether she was alive or not.
Bart9K
It makes me laff whenever I hear AW's complain about a man not wanting to "commit". Commit to WHAT? Commit to a woman who will never tell you to your face that she's not totally YOURS? Commit to a woman who will feel that it is perfectly fine to cut off a man's sexual supply if she feels like it, KNOWING that if the man attempted to correct that problem through outside means, she could LEGALLY take him to the cleaners? Commit to a woman who will strangle off the man's side of their social life (his friends) only to end up with a set of "friends" that is not his own? Commit to a woman who feels that her ONLY requirement to the relationship is to give him the PALTRY amount of lackluster sex that he will receive FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE? Commit to a woman who will "assimilate" (the BORG would flee in terror at her abilities to assimilate) HIS assets as her/their own without contributing to the family "financial nest egg"? Thankfully, the subject of marriage and why I haven't taken the plunge almost never comes up with my female acquaintances. I can almost picture their indignation at having called the situation as I see it, AND having been RIGHT.
[QUOTE=Tyhigs77]Rock Dog, you are right about the confidence part. Due to the hard time that AWs have given me (misleading signals, flakiness, prerogative to change their minds without cause), I am nervous around even the plain ones.
When I see a Polish/Russian/Ukrainian girl here in NJ, I can usually tell just by looking at their faces (can anyone else tell the difference or is it just me?). I've had no problem going up and talking to them. Usually I say something like "Hey, are you European <big smile>?" They have been extremely nice so far. They are even nicer than the western European women I've met, and I think western European women are great (except the British).[/QUOTE]
I can tell that most EE women have a different look about them, they dress and behave in a manner that is much different than AWs. I haven't had much trouble figuring out who is who by their appearance.
Apparently AW in the hurricane struck areas are being a bit more "friendly" than usual to guys visiting from out of town because many are desperate for a way out of the demolished areas. I have been asked by quite a few if I was visiting the area alone. I guess they need a place to stay and a source of cash, so what's better than a walking ATM?
I told one that maybe I would drop by and we could go grab a couple of crawfish for lunch. She quickly replied that two crawfish wasn't going to get me very far with her. I laughed my ass off. It seems that even simple AW from the country can be very precise and calculating when it comes determining the price of their pussy.
The funny thing is that I don't like crawfish (a.k.a mud bugs) and the whole point of my conversation was just to fuck with her head a little for some entertainment while running around out and about on the job. I find it amusing that these women actually think that I would allow them to waste my time. They are so full of themselves that they don't even recognize blatant sacarsm. Why would I waste my money on some big corn fed AW when I can be saving for my next trip to an exotic locale with charming petite women?
However, it's amazing what you can say to women when you don't give a rat's ass about what they think of you. I find myself coming up with more and more outrageous shit to say to them just so that I can crack up at their reactions.
I think one of the driving forces of world travel by men is to seek out beautiful women. This is a normal drive and it is not the sinister exploiting of women through the sex trade that the feminazis call it. Behind this driving force is the terrible nature of so many American Women (AW). I call it the Oprah-ization of AW. Too many AW are obese, self centered and feminist monsters. Of course there are exceptions. Unfortunately the ones that are not Oprah-ized are either A. Married and off the market, B. sought after by many men and so expensive as to make them impossible to attain for a normal man, and C. horribly selfish and stuck up.
In the interests of some fairness, I would like to point out that all AW are not the scum of the earth. What about your mother, was she scum? (if she was maybe that explains some of your problems with women) It is definitely true that as far as sex workers the US is the worst in the world, basically the most expensive and the poorest service. The USA situation is bad because of the twin headed monster of puritanical sex values and feminism. Fortunately not all AW are this way. I have had some sexy little American girlfriends who were awesome in bed. I have been to Czech, all over South American and these girls rank in the best of all time. All it took was some charm and a spending a little time with them. Some of them made more money than me but they still enjoyed good sex.
The fact is there are sexy nice American girls left. I have met a few and it is very nice to meet an intelligent American girl who is raised in a good family and is financially secure and attractive. A very attractive American girl is sometimes the most beautiful girls in the world with the highest standards of cleanliness and hygiene. In addition because they are not peasants like many of the foreign women, they can attain sophisticated qualities that make them ideal mates. For example one of my American girlfriends was a well off girl, with a sexy body, flawless skin, who is fluent in two languages, has a college degree, is well read and never worries about money because she comes from a well off family. She always had the best dental care, has cool style, traveled the world, is polite and was better educated than most women from the 3rd world countries that are frequented by mongers. The girl is of course not perfect (no women are) but my point is that there are very many desirable young girls.
Unfortunately as is well documented on this thread there are very few of these lovely girls left by the time they reach about 25 many are hooked up and because the balance of power is so far tilted to women it makes these ones left sought after by the millions of men who want to meet a nice woman. The AW of the east coast is a special breed, more consumed by careers and material wealth than the average AW in the Midwest or south. I have seen fat girls acting like they are some hot thing that men want. The other problem with the east coast is that on the flip side there is many ghetto women who nobody finds attractive other than their fellow ghetto dwellers. The upper class women of the suburbs and elite urban enclaves can seem unattainable to the normal guy and there is the white trash and ghetto trash leaving a very depressing situation for the regular American guy.
You got to be kidding me about AW hygiene, I have been around the world, and in many countries, the AVERAGE women is better dressed and groomed than the average AW. I was in central Europe just last year, and most women who would be poor by US standards dressed better than Beverly Hills princesses but with much nicer personalities.
[QUOTE=CBGBConnisur]You got to be kidding me about AW hygiene, I have been around the world, and in many countries, the AVERAGE women is better dressed and groomed than the average AW. I was in central Europe just last year, and most women who would be poor by US standards dressed better than Beverly Hills princesses but with much nicer personalities.[/QUOTE]
That doesn't say anything except apparently you were only with some real nasty AW. Maybe the women in your family and that you dated were that way so that is your sole impression. The ones I know are all super clean, take shower ever day (2 if they work out), wear clean clothes every day, have perfect teeth, have nice skin....your perspective is obviously very different. I enjoy girls in Brasil and Czech as much as the next guy, but I'm just trying to provide some balance to your perspective. You're going to tell me that Christy Turlington and Natalie Portman are ugly next.
I am comparing foreign women to women I knew in New York who lived at some rather upscale addresses, these are women ranked among the top 2 percent of the US population in terms of income, and their grooming leaves a lot to be desired, even an Amsterdam prostitute dresses better than a lot of the women I meet in NYC. American women suck end of story.
Natalie Portman, beautiful? You must be smoking some potent shit I rate her a 7 out of ten. I will agree with you about Christy Turlington but a woman like that in the US is a rarity. I am in Europe right now traveling, and I see women of that calibre all over the place. Just because a woman comes from a foreign country and doesn't have a large bank balance, she is not a peasant. I have known lots of American women many of them who happen to have Ivy League degrees, have the letters MD or CPA behind them, and some of the ladies I have met in Europe and elsewhere outclass them in culture and sophistication.
Lennox, I kind of envy the fact that you've seem to run into a few AW's who are NOT dysfunctional, soul-sucking money-pits. I WILL tell you, however, that your experience is a RARITY. To some degree or another, ALL AW's grow up believing in the "Princess Principle"; basically, they feel that they are to be fought over (not necessarily physical fighting) because they are "special". It is extremely RARE that an AW will bring attributes to the table that TRULY make it worth a lifetime commitment for a man to accept. I'm not talking about physical beauty, 'cos MANY AW's are physically attractive without the benefit of being just as beautiful INSIDE. Are these AW's of whom you sing prasies the types who would gladly recharge her man's vitality after having done battle with the rest of the world (for example: putting up with a crappy boss, getting a ticket from an asshole cop, or many other similar things that stress a person out) simply because she loves him and making him happy makes HER happy? Or (as is most likely) do they NOT want to hear about his problems (I'm not saying listen INCESSANTLY to the point of him driving her insane) and turn the conversation IMMEDIATELY about THEM? I'm not attacking you, but DO look closer at your experiences and NOT so much at face value.
i have yet to meet an american woman who did not believe one or more of the following:
-men should pay (dates, rings, vacations, etc), just because
-one in four women are raped (which is false).
-women should be given access to men's clubs, but men should not be given access to women's clubs.
-since the congress is 99% male, it is evidence that men conspire to hold women down.
-women are paid 76cents on the dollar (again this is false).
-men get women drunk to have sex (as opposed to women getting drunk to have an excuse to have sex).
-men and women are equal, but if women ruled the world, [b]it would be a much better place.[/b]
-being a housewife or taking care of the husband (cooking meals) is slavery
-if a man doesnt like women in [category x] then he is a superficial bastard, but if a woman doesnt like men in [category y which is the male equivalent of x] then that is her preference.
-it is ok to hit a man, [i]cause he deserved it[/i], but you better not dare hit a woman back after she hits you.
the list goes on. i have quizzed the german women i met. this particular brand of feminism is foreign to them. but nearly every american woman i have met believes this nonsense. this is [i]part[/i] of the reason why american women are trash. they simply believe that men are evil creatures.
[quote] what about your mother, was she scum? (if she was maybe that explains some of your problems with women)[/quote]this is the typical attempt to shame men for pointing out the inadequacies of american women. to speak negative about women is tantamount to misogyny in the eyes of all women and their male defenders (cause it is simply impossible that any group of women could be intolerable, right?). the fact of the matter is, that it is a mother's duty to be good to her son. other women are under no obligation to men who are not their sons. therefore our mothers can not be compared to women in general. in any case, the fact that our mothers are american women does not mean that american women [i]as a whole[/i] are above criticism.
Regarding recent conversation:
1. Hygiene-The only place in the world that I have encountered skanky poontang is the US of A. Granted, I haven't traveled extensively but...
2. Class and elegance. I believe Lennox referred to some girls as "peasants". I know a number of Czech prostitutes. They are basically mostly (at least to start with) poor girls from the countryside of a poor country. Yet, the vast majority of those girls, I would be completely comfortable putting a cocktail dress on, and taking them to a fancy party or a four star restaurant-they are thin, pretty, educated, witty, articulate, congenial etc. In fact, I strongly suspect that they would be substantively better in that environment than I myself would be. Conversely, comparing apples to apples, many of the wealthy US of A's "poor girls from the country", I would be embarassed to be seen with at KFC. I suspect that our friend Lennox is making the error of extrapolating from a small sample of high grade women he has the good fortune to be around, and doesn't get the full force blast of ***** behavior as an exotic foreign guy.
3. Lennox brought up our mothers. My Mother, who I do love dearly, is in fact badly "Oprahsized". Despite having a life that is more comfortable than 95% of the planet (lives in a big house with a fairly high degree of luxury, doesn't have to work, is able to lay around when she feels bad, has plenty of food and great health care) believes that she is downtrodden, opressed, and not treated fairly, and vocalizes her feelings on the subject frequently, often, and obnoxiouisly. I have tried to explain to her, that there are women in the world who have to scrub their husbands stained underwear on the banks of a river in 10 degree below zero weather, but this is to no avail. My Mother incidently grew up prior to the rotting effects of feminism-this sort of thing is only going to get worse.
By the way, I am not absolutely sure that this is the case, but I believe that our friend Domino has been labeled a "Serial Antagonist" as the result of a poll, and has henceforth been confined to his own forum threads in I believe Thailand and the Philipines.
Bart9K
Since the types of AWs Lennox Lewis is defending represent probably about 1 percent of the American female population where does this leave the 99 percent of American males? Not in a good position, even in the worst case scenario in a Western Euro or other country, I have found that at least 40 percent of the women were highly desirable.
If you are searching for gold you go to an area that is known for having gold deposits. You don't wade through piles of pig shit just because there is an extremely small probability that if you did it long enough you might find a gold nugget in a pig turd.
Many guys come to this forum after spending many years and numerous dollars in search of the elusive reasonable American woman. They realize that the system is against them and that AW have no intentions of changing the system. Tyhigs77's earlier posting is an excellent summary of this system of beliefs and values. Even if an AW appeared to be a decent person, are you willing to risk finincial ruin and lose your kids if she should decide that you're not what she wants later or vice versa? American women don't just want some of it, they want all of it. Sure I have met some that talk a good talk but I have yet to see them walk the walk. Just remember that if you marry or have kids with an AW you're putting your head on a chopping block and handing her the axe with the hope that she will have mercy on you.
From all my experiences with White, Black. Asian American women. I think Black American women have the nastiest atitude of them all. I've been seeing this Eastern European woman for about a year. She's the best woman I've ever been around. She treats me like a king and she's drop dead gorgeous with none of the BS atittude typical of AW.
Women have the same diploma's as men.The same skils?
At the job they always find some stuped male ass to do there work.
It is easier to be the boss of hundred men than five women.
When something goes wrong, the computer has done it.
Think before you talk to her! She does not speak the same english!
Be very careful you dirty old man!
90 % complaining and 10 % work.
What balance are you talking about, Lennox? This puny thread versus the $1 Trillion US media conglomerates spreading the idea that American women look like Angelina Jolie and Britney Spears? Give me a break, people around the world have some false bullshit "Hollywood" image of the American female as being perfect, those women represent less than 1 percent of the real female population. A virtually penniless coal miner's daughter I met in Germany a few years ago, who I tragically lost, had more beauty, class, culture, and sophistication than all the AW celebrities combined.
I had forgotten to tell Lennox that example you gave, Chocha. I was gonna put it in terms of looking for a SPECIFIC GRAIN OF SAND on a beach on BOTH SIDES of the Pacific Rim. THAT'S how rare this mythical creature is that Lennox speaks of. Take note that I did NOT say she is nonexistent, just extremely RARE. And yeah, what's to stop her from doing the "bait and switch" with her attitude (AND physique) and turning on you once you have the shackles (whoops! I meant RING) firmly affixed to you?
Like I said, I don't wanna bash Lennox, but I think MAYBE he hasn't examined his circumstances closely enough.
To Lennox, CBGB Chocha et al,
The facts are as follows;
We have the highest rates of obesity (male and female) in the world. It's getting so bad now, even the KIDS are turning into little porkers.
We have a high standard of living and high average wages to pay for it. This contributes to a sense of entitlement common in many women.
We have the most mixed-up gender roles for women. We also have a pervasive media influence that promotes these non-traditional roles for women.
What happens when these and other factors come together? Unattractive women who are confused, insecure and demanding. Much more so, to my way of thinking, than in other regions of the world where a more traditional way of living (and thinking) can still be found.
I'm sure there are lots of good women to be found just as Lennox stated in his recent post. As a matter of fact, I used to get laid (for free) on a regular basis. But that all changed as I got older. I noticed that, around age 30, it was getting harder and harder to find girls who just wanted to have some fun.When I was 21, I was confident, even fearless. By the time I turned 35, I would hardly even try saying Hi anymore.
It seems like there's a hardening process that occurs as girls get older. The nice ones get scooped up by the time they're in their mid 20's and all that's left are the ones that nobody wants. Guess which ones we're most likely to run into?
Rock
AW's have the power to BE the one somebody wants if they don't squander their "powers" at their peak. Instead of planning for their future, they live TOTALLY in the moment until the day comes that they realize that they DON'T have the fabulous life they fantasize (but never planned for) about. That life consists of the fabulous house, the fabulous husband, the fabulous kids, the fabulous vacations, etc. Instead of planning to couple with the quality man they lament never having met, they're out constantly sampling bad boy convict types who would never CONCEIVE of sharing a life with the latest notch on his belt. When the time finally comes to take that step to couple with a man, they have to SETTLE for what they can NOW get, and THAT is far less than what they would have accepted in years past, OR they hold to the standards of years past, never realizing that they no longer wield the power of their earlier days and get NO ONE. Eventually, with BOTH situations (SOONER with the latter scenario) you have the creation of the Bitter B**** in her 30's who blames MEN for HER poor choices. To put it bluntly to AW's, "If you snooze, YOU LOSE". If you seek to BLAME someone, run to the nearest mirror...
Rock Dog is spot on, the unfortunate downside of prosperity is that people develop a sense of entitlement. This is all too common among North American and other Western women.
I agree with Rock Dog, Obesity for me is a decisive factor that drives me to overseas locales for my adventures. I love how thin and even waifish many women around the world still aspire to be. The feminist revulsion has made it ok for women to not only become porkers but also "buff" and too manly for my taste. Look at how USA dominates at sports like soccer where our man-women win all the events. Only the steroid taking chinese monsters of swimming are a more disgusting site. The obesity is really a revulting and disturbing trend. It is truly a disgusting and disgraceful situation with AW becoming the cows of the world. It is a national disgrace!
I think you guys may have a point, maybe my circumstances are different....ask Jackson how unique my circumstances are, he actually met an AW friend of mine.
I know there are still are some nice AW, but the situation is definately abysmal in the overall picture. Yes, college campuses have your hot young slutty freshman who want to show off their delicious 18 year old bodies and don't mind one night stands, but they are often treated badly and instead of being treasured as a precious resource they soon adopt the feminazi principles.
I wasn't trying to start dispute when I said there are exceptions to the horrid AW routinely detailed on this thread. For those who have not given up all hope of AW I think that most of the nicer more feminine types of women are in fields like nurses, teachers...ones that are more traditional female roles where empathy, kindness and nurturing are still rewarded. The lawyer types can be real soulless creatures. I guess all I was saying is that if you still have a dream of one day having a family and the monger life isn't bringing total fulfillment there is still some AW to consider along with all the international beauties.
complete bs.
i am currently taking nursing classes. let me tell you, the fact that a woman becomes a nurse is not correlated with a lack of misandry or even a more empathetic attitude (sorry to bust your bubble on that one).
this summer, i had a 4'11' 400lbs (guesstimate) woman teacher who said the following:
1. the reason why elderly men have erectile dysfunction is because they are too busy cheating on their wives in their younger years with the neighbor, the girl down the street, the girl at work, the girl at the bakery, the girl at the gym.
2. the main reason for divorce is because men pick women solely based on looks.
3. when the chinese immigrant man in class said that his wife left him, she said "you must have done something wrong!"
i had another female professor who swore up and down that women's lives are harder than men's, and therefore women are more likely to become depressed due to the stresses of "work and motherhood." i guess fathers, having to be the major breadwinner and having to deal with some nagging ameriwench dont have as much stress as women.
i have had 3 nursing instructors ask me why i want to be a nurse. they question my motives because i am male. now i have never observed a woman ask a female student why she wants to be a nurse. nope. i could be the only male in a group of 60 or more women, and i will be the one to be asked. something must be wrong with me if i want to be a nurse. some sinister motive, because only women are sweet, caring, affectionate, empathetic. after all, if women ruled the world, there'd be no war.
of course i shouldnt be complaining. i mean, everyday 1 in 4 women are raped by psychos who force alcohol down their throats.
I went to a Scores with a bunch of my friends and had a lapdance and her crotch stuck like rotten garbage. Woooo.. I noticed that the American bathrooms need bodees badly. There are none in our bathrooms but when I go to a foreign bathroom even in Brazil, they have bodees for women to wash their crotch. That may be one of the problems with hygiene. There are also 90% percent of them having implants. I like natural boobs that are found in foreign countries. They also have surgical scars from liposuction and the implants. That means that these are the fat women that are willing to fork out money to be thin to work in strip clubs. In New York, there is a McDonald's every 2 blocks. Also the restaurants open 24 hours 7 days a week while everything else closes. There is nothing else to do after 10PM but eat or go to the movies (and eat more junk food). I never had a smelly twat in Europe or South America. They are cleaner by far than AWs.
As far as hygiene is concerned I have to agree with CBGB and disagree with Lennox. But I do agree with Lennox that there are still a few AWs left. The way to weed them out is not to be pussywhipped. Being pussywhipped ATTRACTS feminazis. My older brother acted like the tough male so that repelled feminazis from him. Also, he moved out of New York which has laws that are more favorable to feminazis than any other part of the country. That explains why NYC women are such crap and why I am still single with my tough guy attitude. I did not take crap from a woman in NYC so she left me to search for a wimp she can control and walk over. He moved to Pennsylvania which is less of a feminazi state than New York. My brother is not pussywhipped by his wife and he keeps his wife in check. He is the boss of his family. He threatens to leave her if she gets out of hand and also fortunately for him, his wife grew up in a small suburban town where women typically have lower self esteem than the big city girls who think they are all that and a bag of chips. The women from smaller towns are more likely to stay married than the big city girls.
The reason women come out of college Oprahsized is because college forces ALL women students to take a woman's studies course which teaches them the philosophy of feminism. College in itself is feminist. I met my ex-fiancee who was a freshman at the time I met her while I was teaching courses in her school. Junior college does not offer these horrible women's studies courses so she was a great girlfriend. After she made it to a 4-year school called New York University, she was forced to take a woman's study course that was offered in all 4-year colleges. She met a rotten fat Black ***** and became the complete opposite of the girl I met. Instead of a relationship of give and take, She just takes, takes, takes, and demands more. She started making up "anniversaries" (meaning yearly) but these "anniversaries" happened more and more frequently and she started making me remember more and more non-sensical dates like "the time she got her first piercing, now buy me some jewelry". I put up with this BS for 2 more months but then left her and demanded the ring back or she suffers a lawsuit for a breach in contract.
2-year colleges don't offer these "How to be a feminazi" courses and that is why teachers, nurses and other women of these professions from 2-year colleges are the good ones and the rotten ones are the lawyers, CPA, and doctors from the 4-year schools. And this happened to me twice. My high school sweetheart quoted a book saying that "All men are dogs" and she went to Barnard College of Columbia University.
The real statistics are alarming over 80 percent of the American female population is overweight or obese, there are similar rates for the male population as well. Those of us who denigrate American women do it from years of experience and disappointment following disappointment, we have lived in America are whole lives so we know what we are talking about. Too many foreigners watch too much television and get the wrong impression of a country, TV is another form of mind controlling propaganda that paints a false image of many things. I can imagine how different the world would be if people stopped basing their beliefs on what they see on TV and go out and experience the world and people for themselves in the first hand view. Most people unfortunately will not and spend their lives as puppets. There are about 3 Billion women on the planet, with AWs making up only 150 million, less than 5 percent of the total population.
I recall traveling in Mexico with a friend and remembering what he said about the local women on how much more class and beauty the average local had compared to the average AW. The only real opportunity to meet those amazing foreign women is by leaving the US and living in another country. Statistically, very few Americans travel abroad, only about 5 percent of the population travel internationally and less than 10 percent of Americans own a passport.
The people outside of the US have some kind of false bullshit view that the average American female looks like Pamela A., she is hardly the representation of the TYPICAL American female. Roseanne Barr would be more typical, the fatter one before she lost a few pounds. Anybody ever see the Biggest Loser? Those porkers are very common in the States.
Actually AWs feel a sense of entitlement for being Rosanne Barrs because most American men are fat. Oprah brought up the point that it is not fair that American men can be hairy and fat so she says that American women should do the same- be hairy and fat. She feels that women are entitled the same right as men to let themselves go. American men have lead bad examples for the AWs. The average European, Asian, or South American man is thinner than the average American men. This is because the government enforces the healthy living laws in which restaurants must cook with a certain type of oil and must close during certain hours. This is very true because between the hours of 10AM-12PM, 2-4PM, and after 10PM, I could not find an open restaurant. Even some McDonald's closes at certain hours. They also do not cook with vegetable shortening or other saturated fats. They are required to cook with unsaturated oils. I am not saying that Europe doesn't have their share of porkers but as a whole, they are in better shape.
Since the damage has already been done, AWs are used to being fat pigs and see this as the norm for generations to come. The next generation of porkers do not understand why their mothers became porkers and they still act like they deserve and can attract a Chippendales' guy. This is also unfortunately true on the American men side. American men accepted the fat in AWs and marry the porkers because they don't travel and see that there is a better way. The Victorian way of men being doormats to women is embedded and taught to the younger generations.
DS:
It isnt a matter of governmental controls on restaurant opening hours, but rather a question of diet and self-control. It is easy enough to stay thin and athletic (or at least average) in America, but America is a society that breeds blaming others for ones own misfortune.
Americans are too fat simply because they eat too much and dont get enough exercise.
Sure there are lots of excuses... American cities are pedestrian unfriendly and you must drive everywhere, fried food meals are served 3 times a day, Americans tend to spend there evenings at home watching TV (and eating) as opposed to going out at night and stimulating their metabolism etc... but in the end it is all about excuses. If you are fat, it is because you did a lousy job of controlling your food intake or simply didnt care.
I love to eat and drink, but stop myself before overdoing it because getting fat would hinder my ability to attract the opposite sex, feel attractive and enjoy sex. If someone wants to be fat, thats their business and I have no problem with it. But they certainly shouldnt whine because they suddenly cant attract women.
[url]http://www.gyford.com/phil/writing/2003/01/31/how_many_america.php[/url]
Also another guy made a very valid point that Americans can go to a lot of other countries without passports. Of course that is also true of Mercosur. I just don't really believe that a lower percentage of Americans have been to another country as opposed to a lot of other countries' population. I'm trying to research this a little. Now what those Americans [b]did[/b] in that foreign country is another story. Some ass hole PMed me the other day wanting to know if there was a Hooter's here in Argentina. There is, but why would you want to go there? Sigh. I guess some people do or it wouldn't stay in business. Or these fucks who go to Mexico to lie on the beach and never leave their resorts.
Or guys who run international sex forums and can't speak a foreign language.
Comparing Europe to America is like apples and oranges, its as if the two regions are on different planets. I have been in Europe for nearly 2 months, there is one big difference between Europe and the US, there is a lot less land and the population is more dense in Europe, the average European country has 500 people per square mile versus the US with less than 100. So on average you will run into five times as many people as you would in the US, looking at percentages, I would say a third of Europeans I would see in a given day are obese or overweight, the majority seem to be slender regardless of age, in contrast to what Darkseid said there are many places open late for a drinker to get a meal, I went to a stall in Dusseldorf, Germany at 2 in the morning still this is not as common as in the US. Even with this in mind Europeans seem to be a lot slimmer than most Americans but that is changing, there was a group of fat people I was sure were other Americans until the head of the family pulled out a burgundy passport that said United Kingdom. I have seen quite a few heavyset people in Australia but even a fat Australian would be chubby by US standards. Still European and even Australian cities are more pedestrian friendly than the typical city in Canada or the US.
As for me I am not overweight but quite well built, a product of weightlifting three hours a day in the world's biggest ex-prison, Australia.
We've all heard it,
the endless excuses that women come up with for why they are fat. It's genetic, I have big bones, it's my metabolism, I couldn't lose the pounds after the baby.... etc, etc.
Yeah, whatever. There are these twins that I used to know. Back when they were in their early 20's, they were both fairly hot. Nice bodies, blond hair blue eyes, the works. Now, according to a friend of mine, one of them still looks pretty good, while the other has gone downhill big-time (pun intended).
These are indentical twins. !00% same DNA, same build, same metabolism and everything else. The only difference is that one of them took better care of herself and the other one didn't give a damn. After 15 years, one still looks OK, and the other one looks the way she deserves to look.
Rock
ps. Tyhigs77 had mentioned a female comment about the reason for erectile disfunction. I believe ED occurs when a healthy adult male is stuck doing it with the same woman year after year. In my experience a little variety works just as well as Viagra.
[url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/rel_chu_att[/url]
Out of 53 "countries" surveyed, the US had the 11th highest church attendance. Of course, Puerto Rico isn't a country, so either move the US up to 10 of 49 or combine these other [b]American citizens[/b] and maybe it leapfrogs over Italy.
I have improved my results immeasurably by moving to #23 on the list. Here they say you go to church to get married and to get buried. I haven't met any young people who are church goers although most say they believe in god.
So at this point I believe the topic has been completely abandoned.
[QUOTE=Dickhead][url]http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/rel_chu_att[/url]
Out of 53 "countries" surveyed, the US had the 11th highest church attendance. Of course, Puerto Rico isn't a country, so either move the US up to 10 of 49 or combine these other [b]American citizens[/b] and maybe it leapfrogs over Italy.
I have improved my results immeasurably by moving to #23 on the list. Here they say you go to church to get married and to get buried. I haven't met any young people who are church goers although most say they believe in god.[/QUOTE]Good thing I spent a year with the sluts of Germany rather than in Poland, seeing as poland is number 5. But I still doubt it would be as hard to get a Polish girl (in Poland) in bed as it is to get an AW into bed.
In Germany, I dont think I met a single person who went to Church. What do you expect when everyone says "scheisse" (shit) in public, including 9 yr old girls.
Yes, the fat thing in the US really disgusts me. And all those lame excuses! As if our genes suddenly changed over the past 30 years. Why can't they just admit they are lazy gluttons? How refreshing would that be?
That "having kids" excuse really gets me. I've had a dozen Asian women in their 30's-40's who've had kids, & they have tight hot bodies. They don't blow up to 200 lbs & never take it off.
I turned down some clients last year, the chief reason being the whole family of five was morbidly obese. It made me sick to look at them.
It's such a shock to come back from Japan, where maybe 4% of the chicks are fat, to here, where it seems as if 85% are.
[quote=tyhigs77]complete bs.
i am currently taking nursing classes. let me tell you, the fact that a woman becomes a nurse is not correlated with a lack of misandry or even a more empathetic attitude (sorry to bust your bubble on that one).
this summer, i had a 4'11' 400lbs (guesstimate) woman teacher who said the following:
1. the reason why elderly men have erectile dysfunction is because they are too busy cheating on their wives in their younger years with the neighbor, the girl down the street, the girl at work, the girl at the bakery, the girl at the gym.
2. the main reason for divorce is because men pick women solely based on looks.
3. when the chinese immigrant man in class said that his wife left him, she said "you must have done something wrong!"
i had another female professor who swore up and down that women's lives are harder than men's, and therefore women are more likely to become depressed due to the stresses of "work and motherhood." i guess fathers, having to be the major breadwinner and having to deal with some nagging ameriwench dont have as much stress as women.
i have had 3 nursing instructors ask me why i want to be a nurse. they question my motives because i am male. now i have never observed a woman ask a female student why she wants to be a nurse. nope. i could be the only male in a group of 60 or more women, and i will be the one to be asked. something must be wrong with me if i want to be a nurse. some sinister motive, because only women are sweet, caring, affectionate, empathetic. after all, if women ruled the world, there'd be no war.
of course i shouldnt be complaining. i mean, everyday 1 in 4 women are raped by psychos who force alcohol down their throats.[/quote]i had to quote this so i could come back to it.
I don't remember where I heard this opinion, but I tend to believe it:
Nurses tend to be some of the most dysfuntional women on the planet.
1. I suspect that many women become nurses in hopes of marrying a high income high status doctor
2. The emotional makeup of "needing to be needed" which can be an attractant to that type of career, can be an indication of emotional dysfunction.
3. Nursing is something of a rarity-a high income female dominated occupation. This can attract women who NEED to have a high income, such as single mothers who are not getting financial support for their children....
Granted of course, these are generalities-certainly there are exceptions, including my very emotionally stable Grandmother who was a nurse for 35-40 years.
That is all,
Bart9K
I have never met a nurse who would not suck my dick.
Lennox talks about a small minority of American women that make up only about 1 percent of the population. The vast majority of American women are completely fucked up, psychotic, skanky, feminazi, lying, two-face, bunch of bitchez and liars. I have been treated good by women abroad and its not because they thought I was some rich "American" or a walking green card, the majority of women I encountered treated locals just as well as they treated me, so its definitely something internal on the part of the women I meet not because they thought I was some golden ticket.
I agree with CBGB. The Brazillian woman I stayed with for 4 years while I was in Brazil did not want to come back to America with me, although she could have if she married me. She did not like the terrible events that was going on here with G.W. Bush in office and she also agrees that Brazil is more relaxed and much less stressful than it is here in New York City when she came to visit here with me on a short trip back to the US. She definitely did NOT want that greencard, period. She also did not like the competition that happens here in the US and the "keeping up with the Joneses" as a loud group of New York women sneered at her clothing and at me for being with her. One of them said to her," Where did you get that "fine" skirt? From the Salvation Army?" Then the rest of them laughed at her. I said to the *****,"Where did you get all that fat? From McDonald's or from Ben and Jerry's?" Then she turned her back at me and put her hand up. These bitches weren't even drunk and they wanted to pick a fight with my girlfriend. With that bad experience, she had a bad taste of what AWs are like, especially the big city ones.
[QUOTE=Yogin]Yes, the fat thing in the US really disgusts me. And all those lame excuses! As if our genes suddenly changed over the past 30 years. Why can't they just admit they are lazy gluttons? How refreshing would that be?
[/QUOTE]
Yogin,
I can't agree with you more. I have never been to Japan, since I prefer Brazil, but all these fat women here in America disgust me. I walked into a restaurant yesterday and observed 10 women. All of them, every single one was 30-100 pounds overweight. The ones who are not overweight expect to be treated "special". I tell you, I am just tried of them.
RonnyRon
Regardless of who is President, women in America suck, Period. Only solution is to get out of the US. I like living down under, I get more vacations. I did meet an Australian woman who wanted to go to the USA, I thought she was a complete fuckwit and kicked her out. Even a lot of people in Australia think AWs look like Pamela A(who is not American but Canadian), I tell guys that their money will be better spent in Eastern Europe.
[QUOTE=darkseid]
The reason women come out of college Oprahsized is because college forces ALL women students to take a woman's studies course which teaches them the philosophy of feminism. College in itself is feminist....
2-year colleges don't offer these "How to be a feminazi" courses and that is why teachers, nurses and other women of these professions from 2-year colleges are the good ones and the rotten ones are the lawyers, CPA, and doctors from the 4-year schools. And this happened to me twice. My high school sweetheart quoted a book saying that "All men are dogs" and she went to Barnard College of Columbia University.[/QUOTE]You're right that some colleges can often promote the feminist man hating agenda. It's not true those classes are mandatory or that they are forced to take these classes in women's studies. However, they do count toward graduation and the fact that nearly all major universities have tenured professors who spread the feminazi hate message is an abomination. Another joke is the politically charged "diversity" and African American studies professors.
CBGB it is funny you go to Australia which is very similar culture, obesity rates, overpriced escorts, divorce laws, etc.
If you were trying to escape Feminism and these "top 2 percent" and "99 percent" bad women you were stuck with in the States why did you go to a country that shares a similar culture, legal situation and obesity rate? What's the matter, couldn't learn another language?
I spend several months of the year outside of Australia, kind of the benefit of being a self-employed person. I initially wound up here because of my company, liked the outdoor lifestyle of Oz. On the surface, the country looks similar to the US but is very different, I won't go into too much detail because I can write an encyclopedia about the differences between Australia and the US having lived for a considerable amount of time in both places. In general Western women are not good for long term relationships, if you want a wife, go to Asia and avoid Australia, Latin America and Europe as women from these regions change quickly, but at least they are nice about it unlike the dreaded AWs. For short term fun, Australia is a great place. You have to be kidding me about the brothels being overpriced, a really nice place I saw quoted me in the US equivalent of about 130US for an hour and it looked quite luxurious with extremely attractive women, but I don't visit brothels much down under. Lennox can you tell us a little bit about yourself? I am wondering if you are that really lucky English guy who lives in Spain.
Lennox, I want to hear your response you FUCKTARD. Maybe if I run into you in Sydney I'll feed your mouth with my fist.
Lennox and CBGB, there is no need to argue about who is better- Australia, Latin, European, or Asian. They ALL are better wives and much more marriageable than American Oprahsized women. In fact America is the pioneer of feminism. American women wrote all that crap about men being dogs and the "You go girl" attitude of Oprah.
Back in high school, I used to have very low self esteem. Big city American women are great at doing that to men and making them feel like shit just for nicely asking them out. I get the typical, "Get away from me squinty eyes" response from these girls in high school when I try to ask them out. I never hooked up in high school or college here in the US but when I competed in an International Wu Su (kung-fu) forms tournament in Sydney Australia, the girls there were much friendlier and I got a date with a nice girl who was in the audience. Hmmm, I hooked up one week when I was in Australia and all these years in the US in high school, I couldn't even get one date (I never even went to the prom because of this and I don't consider myself a least bit ugly. I compare myself to Russell Wong but shorter. However, there is a negative thing going on here in the big cities in the US against Asian men). This shows that Australian women are much less racist and much nicer than these AW assholes. I even gained much more self confidence and self esteem because of my trip to Australia- a benefit of being in the kung-fu team. I never tried the brothels because I didn't know of them and I was travelling with a team but from reading posts from different sex-guides, the information is consistent that you can get laid by a private girl or a brothel for $100 to $150 US dollars.
In college, with the knowledge that it is not me but the women here, I did not feel at all bad about a sexual dry spell. My dry spell in college was solved by my Brazillian room-mate who took me to Brazil and introduced me to the martial arts of Capoeira. He also took me to the Termas after a disgraceful trip to a lap-dancing club in NYC. I admitted to him that I was a virgin and he says he sees why. He did hook up with college girls but they never put out. He wanted to show me how much of a better time I could have gotten for the price of 2 lapdances or $40 (which was the price back in the early nineties for a lay in a terma) so he took me on a trip to Brazil. After showing me the termas and shedding my virginity, I met his friend girl and she was incredibly nice to me. She served me as though she was a slave but I rewarded her by taking her to expensive restaurants (by Brazillian standards but inexpensive by ours) and she got the hint that I was taking her on a date. That night we had passionate sex and that was my first non-pro sex. This NEVER happened to me back in the US because of feminism and prudity which is that 2 headed monster in AWs mentioned earlier.
Perhaps my American experience would have been different is I grew up in a less racist part of the US such as Nevada, where I had hooked up in 2 different short term relationships in Las Vegas. I consider myself a big bity girl-o-meter because the big city girls tend to be more bitchy to me. This is because they are annoyed at the big Asian population in big cities due to the enormous influx of Asians immigration to big cities. Smaller towns, unless they are members of the KKK, tend to treat Asians with better respect, including Nevada women. The girls I did hook up with are one from the Clark county region in Las Vegas, and the other one from a small town of Beatty in Nevada. I was treated like a boyfriend by them but I credit this to physical attraction and a free meal ticket and shows. These girls made good dates for the short term and was even wild in bed but they are still less marriageable than Australian or European women because I cannot keep taking them out on dates every day for the rest of my life or I'll go broke. Unfortunately, most of our jobs are in the big cities and that is the only source of income for most of us on the board so most of us deal with big city girls and have a bad taste for American women. There are Oprahsized bitches in the smaller towns also but these are bitches who spent time in big cities and are assimilatied into the ideas of Oprah. Mostly these are older women in their 30s or abused women by scumbag ex-boyfriends or husbands. The abused women adopt feminism as a defense against the next man they meet which is unfortunate because they don't learn that not all American men are like their former boyfriends or husbands.
As for the laws, most countries have the half during marriage and this is decided by a judge with no lawyers involved. The judge just makes a mathematical calculation of the total monies made by both parties DURING THE MARRIAGE and just splits it down the middle. Here in the US, it is the lawyers that causes the imbalance of distribution of wealth favorable to the wife. He presents thw wife as a victim so the judge is swayed towards giving the wife everything. The husband is made out to be a scumbag even if the wife cheats and the lawyers always point the finger at the husband saying he is a bad husband. If we get rid of ALL divorce lawyers men would have more fair divorces. Also part of this lies in how much a woman wants to take advantage of these lawyers and laws and AWs take full advantage of this and then some. Less feminist women such as Australian, European, Latina, or Asian women are less likely to take advantage of it even if presented to them. A woman I know who is from germany who now lives here was satisfied with just the bare minimum of $200 a month from her ex-husband's paycheck just to feed and raise the 2 children they had together and they are greencardrd here and allowed to work in the US as teachers. By the same token, I know of a co-worker of mine who divorced a bitchy AW and she is taking $1500 a month for child support and alimony (and that is after tax dollars out of $2180 take home!!)
Lennox reminds me of Sporadic, a Briton who lives in Spain and claims he met a "desirable" AW. American women suck, darkseid, finally someone who agrees with me about Australian females versus AWs.
Just to give those international members a little taste of just how screwed up it is at times for men in the USA and possibly why AW are the way they are.
My brother made the mistake of marrying an AW. Now in fairness I will tell you that when they met and married they were both abusing drugs and not living very respectful lives by anyone's standards. To the point. She became pregnant and after two kids my brother straightened out and went on his way to try his best to become a proper father of two boys, ages 2 and 3 years old. During and after the divorce the courts always put heavy responsibility on my brother for everything that happened to his ex-wife. Even though she had multiple drug arrest before they met, the courts always made it seem as if it was my brothers fault his ex-wife had a drug problem and that she was so screwed up in general. He was awarded primary custody of the children because the ex-wife was in drug rehab and had felony warrants for her arrest. But she was allowed visitation rights, or should I say he was forced to give her visitation rights one weekend a month. These were court ordered supervised visits at her parents house with her parents, the very people who f****d this chick up to begin with. Of course her parents would just let the ex-wife take the children to her apartment where there was no supervision for those visitation weekends. This ***** did it all, exposed 4 and 5 year olds to porno, neighbors would find a 4 year old walking the streets and somehow find the way to this little boys apartment where the neighbor would find the apartment door wide open and the F****D up mother passed out on the couch at 3:00 PM in the afternoon, unable to wake her she was so f****d up.
The ex-wife exposed the kids to drugs as well of course. All the while my brother would make complaint after complaint to Social Services and get nothing. However my brother was arrested twice on charges of digital penetration of his children, charges made by his ex-wife. Of course the charges were false and dropped, but not until after extensive investigations and interviews by Social Services of the children which is an abuse of the children in and of itself. The Mother was never arrested for anything and never refused visitation with her kids. I do not how many times my brother went to court. The wives attorney would always make sure that the judge was some feminist B**** or a male judge who had been brain washed. Finally, the children became old enough and aware enough to realize that they wanted nothing to do with their f****d up mother. The courts have never refused her visitation rights. Also she has never paid one dime in support of the children. This is very typical of the system in the USA. Yet night after night you will see some special about what they call "dead beat dads" for not properly taking responsibility for their children. Now I agree that guys who do take on their responsibilities are scum bags and there are many out there, but with the courts they way they are you never know what is the real story.
A second item I heard on the comedy channel the other night. The comedian was going on about women winning about equal pay. He stated that the reason why there is not equal pay is because when the ship is sinking or the house is burning it is always children and women first. When it becomes children and then everyone else for themselves, then you can have equal pay.
My two cent form a guy lucky enough not to fall for the trap before I was able to travel to Hong Kong and figure it out.
On another note. My previous job required me to travel to Hong Kong many times a year. I would on most of these trips take a customer from the USA to Hong Kong with me. About 90% would leave Hong Kong saying that we spoiled and screwed up all the women in the USA. The 10% that didn't say that were always recently married or soon to be married, so they would pass on the activities.
FF
women as a whole do make less money than men. this is not due to discrimination. this is due to choices made by women. first women choose lower paying fields. men know that they wont gain respect if they dont earn a certain income. so men choose the higher paying fields, such as computer science, engineering and other math and science related fields. women tend to go for social sciences and humanities, which do not pay as much. an administrative assistant/office manager/secretary is going to make much less than a software engineer.
also, women pick flexibility of hours over a higher pay rate. they'd rather go home at 3pm than make x more dollars per hour if it means they have to stay til 6pm.
women dont work as many years as men. many women will quit work as soon as they marry a man who makes enough to support them both. or they quit to become full time moms. or they take on part-time positions. (aside: there was an article just last week about freshman women at ivy league schools who dont intend to use any of their education, but instead want to become housewives or at most part-time workers.) men simply do not have the option of marrying a richer woman and then quitting work (because few women will take on a man of lower status than herself, society as a whole doesnt respect this type of man, and in divorce, unlike the woman, he wouldnt get alimony or the house).
lets not forget that after women do take their multiple year break to raise their children, they will have less experience than their male peers who graduated in their same class year. because they have less experience, they will be paid less for the same job. things just work that way.
when all things are held equal - years of job experience, eduacation, and job field - women make $1.01 for every $1.00 men make.
the misleading government reports that indicate that women are paid less compare the "median" income between men and women. this is useless. "median" simply means "the middle." so it does not indicate anything. a true comparison can only be done by comparing the "means", which is the average salary men make compared to the average salary women make. this is not done because the gov sponsors feminists groups who make these misleading reports.
[b]completely made up example:[/b] here are the weekly wages of five men and five women:
men: $500, $500, $475, $250, $25
women: $900, $650, $300, $100, $100
median wages for men: $475
median wages for women: $300
ooooh! wage gap! discrimination!!!!!
not really. the highest paid woman earns more than the highest paid man. the lowest paid man earns less than the lowest paid woman. yet the median for men is higher.
even better, let's take the mode (most common wage):
men: $500
women: $100
oooh! major discrimination! sexism!!!!! (same numbers. bigger apparent discrimination.)
now let's take the mean:
men: $350
women: $410
hey, now men are being discriminated against with exactly the same numbers!!!!
The way European and a lot of other foreign women raise their children is far better than what is happening in America today. I remember reading about how some lady bought her kid Grand Theft Auto and the kid got ideas from the game. You also after remember that infamous ***** Susan Smith.
I'm not interested in getting in a flame war here, not my style and certainly not why I come to this board. I agreed with much of what you said, I just thought I'd point out that Australia is most certainly not the place to go to escape westernized women. Now you're saying you want to beat my ass if I ever go to Sydney because I pointed out AW and Aussie women have similar obesity, similar divorce laws, similar English culture....
There are plenty of other internet sites where you can find people to argue with, I'm not even arguing with you, I agreed with the basic premise of this thread!
By the way thanks for the warm invitation, but at this current time I'm not interested in meeting a dude who brags about his weight lifting ability and who has emotional problems that manifest themselves on internet message boards. Have a nice life.
[url]http://www.drunkbastard.net/photos/arguing.jpg[/url]
Well said Tyhigs. Today, more women hold CEO positions than men which is only 1% of the positions. Women do have the same opportunities careerwise as men so the government's use of MEDIAN is a conspiracy against men and a way women can grab hold of power here in America. This median thing also blinds the majority and brainwashes people so nothing can be done about the feminazi takeover. Remember, this country is all about votes and as long as the feminiazis has everyone else ignorant about this using false statistics, we are screwed as the minority. That is how Bush got into office, through ignorance of the American people brainwashed by the clergy. The MEAN tells a better story because we must average that $1Billion that a woman makes to the average. The median doesn't do that.
In addition, women have all the other advantages like divorce, a free meal ticket from guys, and free ladie's night. They can also prostitute themselves out of poverty where a guy is stuck there because there is no market for man-prostitutes in the AW market because AWs are prudes. If a man has to be a prostitute, the only option here is to be gay, yuck!!!
Chivalry was supposed to be an equalizer for the fact that women make the children and had less power than men but nowadays, they have more power. We should have a society that men and children get let out first and women should sacrifice themselves if they want this power. Forget the "Be a man" attitude. AWs are not worth saving in a case of a fire because they are unappreciative. This rule was put there by AWs and brainwashed men to make asses of us.
Lennox,
Aussie women have the same access to the same things like fast foods 24/7 (unlike Europe where most places close certain hours to "set-up"), divorce laws, or the English language and culture but they are by NATURE much friendlier than American women and would not capitalize on these things like the AW bitches. It is westernized no doubt but still more tolerable than AWs. Aussie women don't try to bend the laws with scumbag lawyers like AWs do. An Aussie, European, South American, or Asian divorce is a clear-cut half DURING the marriage with lawyers trying to make sure no one is cheating each other. In an American or Canadian divorce, the wive can get EVERYTHING a man owns- his house, cars, kids, paycheck, dogs, and there is no limit!! The lawyer's job for the woman is to clean the man out. The lawyer for the man's job is to hide his assets because there is no way to save them from the feminist judge.
Lennox, I think you are entitled to your opinions and that's what makes this board more interesting. Also if anyone is wrong, I like to correct them rather than pick fights with them. CBGB, if Lennox is wrong on some topics, let's correct and educate him rather than being violent.
Darkseid is correct, AW have the upper hand in the courts and the sad thing is the American guy is happily watching Monday Night Football, drinking beer with his buddies and thinking he's still got the power. The fact is men have very few legal rights in the USA and the balance of power has shifted. Just watch any of these shows like Oprah that demonize men and where all the discussions revolve around selfish motives and NOT about how to be a better loving and caring girlfriend or wife but how to "get what you deserve" out of a marriage and a man.
There are some exceptions, but the key is to meet the girl young, and keep your pimp hand strong. By that I do not mean to beat your girl, but to establish early that you are not some pussy-whipped male who is needy and deseprate to get laid. Besides avoiding the obvious trailer park trash, ghetto scum and other undesirable females one should be also be wary of females who feel they have been mis-treated badly and internalize that experience. Basically try to find a happy girl who will make you happy to be around. Otherwise you could end up meeting the female equivalent of a CBGB, walking around with a serious chip on their shoulder and a bad attitude that will bring you down too.
This is a great and very funny site about the subject matter of marriage to an AW:
[url]http://www.nomarriage.com/[/url]
i've met a few guys from australia who were raped by their divorce. in fact one of them left the country to go live in colombia because he got fed up with the aussie women.
[QUOTE=Lennox]I'm not interested in getting in a flame war here, not my style and certainly not why I come to this board. I agreed with much of what you said, I just thought I'd point out that Australia is most certainly not the place to go to escape westernized women. Now you're saying you want to beat my ass if I ever go to Sydney because I pointed out AW and Aussie women have similar obesity, similar divorce laws, similar English culture....
There are plenty of other internet sites where you can find people to argue with, I'm not even arguing with you, I agreed with the basic premise of this thread!
By the way thanks for the warm invitation, but at this current time I'm not interested in meeting a dude who brags about his weight lifting ability and who has emotional problems that manifest themselves on internet message boards. Have a nice life.
[url]http://www.drunkbastard.net/photos/arguing.jpg[/url][/QUOTE]
As far as Australian women there is an increasing number of Eastern European and Asian women here. There is cheap airfare to Asia for those who want to go and Australians tend to take long vacations. Anyone working a fulltime job in Australia gets about 4 weeks a year, some places give the option to extend this to 8 and many Australians who have been working for while take a couple of months off. When you have this much time you can go to a lot of places, in places like Sydney and Melbourne, I see a travel agency on every other block, people here get opportunities for exciting international travel more often than in the US. I spend three months of the year outside of Australia. Like I said if you did not READ, the Australian women are good for Short Term fun, they are good when times are good and not so great when times are sour, in the long run they aren't so great for relationship but the sex is good, fyi Western European women are similar in this regard. Still they are a considerable improvement over bulldyke American females who are the ultimate incarnation of evil. At the very least you will get plenty of good sex in these places. If you are looking for a wife material type, you will have to avoid another industrialized country and try Latin America or some parts of Asia but the latter is developing at a rapid pace so they won't be much different than what you find in the West. I have a lot of Asian friends from Singapore and Hong Kong and they tell me that the Asian women in both places are very superficial but both places are rich and affluent areas.
Every AW I have met wants a nice rich meal ticket husband that will give them a life of luxury and put them on a pedestal. In other countries, women still look for a breadwinner but they seem to be more realistic about it. AWs are no good for STR or LTR. In my experience for STR, Western Europe(EU) and Australia are about equal, for LTR you need to go to SA, Eastern Europe or Asia.
I see most women below the age of 40+ as having unrealistic expectations, bitter, angry, extreme emotional and mental problems, unpredictable behaviour, difficult to be around and just have a plain old good time with, difficult to please, moods that vacillate constantly, taking exorbant amounts of medication, not able to keep a goal in mind and complete it, complain and nag, highly negative and far too masculine in my humble opinion, eat too much, enjoy fast food far too much, expect for the guy to pay everything, base most of their joys on going out clubbing, purchasing clothes, and finally: status
Most of them invest a lot of effort into making themselves appear pretty, special, and different than other females, but it is completely transparent.
The modern American female is an empty shell of a human being, and apparently there are few exceptions.
Australia, Canada, USA.
3 different countries with a common cultural and linguistic background. Yet things seem to be different in these countries. Canada and the States are extremely similar when it comes to women. Australia (according to some posts) seems to be noticeably better when it comes to finding some short term fun from the local girls.
In my opinion, there's always an underlying reason for differences like this. CBGB may have given the best clue in his recent post. Aussie guys are located fairly close to some of the best mongering locations in the world. Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, the Phillipines and let's not forget Thailand! What's more, these guys have the money AND the time to go enjoy themselves.
It occurs to me that Aussie women face a higher level of competition for the attentions of their men. I think this is one major reason why they generally have a better attitude. "You don't wanna put out? Fine, I'll head to Manila for a month and screw 20 or 30 little Filipina babes while I'm there!"
Imagine what would happen if the average guy here could do the same thing.
Rock
Let's hear some posts from some WSG members in Europe. I'll bet the same thing is going on the countries that border on the former Soviet Bloc countries.
I find it hard to imagine (for example) a German/French/Belgian girl holding out on her boyfriend when he can easily drive over to the next country and get some hot young Czech or Slovakian babe to be his woman.
Rock
A few nights ago I accompanied an English guy to a pool hall. There were two AWs playing on the pool table next to our own. One of them was a fat dyke looking blond with too tight clothing and a big gut that jiggled and rippled everytime she bent over the pool table and shot a ball into the pocket. The other one was a short once petite brunette with a pretty face and long silky hair but her ass was in the early stages of an expansion and strained against the seams of her jeans.
The dyke blond got a call on her cell and began cursing out someone at full volume. The caller appeared to be some female who lost the keys to her trailer and needed some assistance from Miss Jiggles. After she hung up half an hour passed with relative calm. Then the brunette got a call on her cell from her boyfriend who wanted her to come home. She proceeded to curse that poor bastard very loudly and the entire pool hall turned to look at her. She would stop every few minutes to take her turn at the table, smoke a cigarette or swallow some beer and then return to cursing the poor bastard with even greater zeal. There was a guy accompanying these two AWs from hell and he put his head down and fiddled with his fingers in obvious embarassment but he was too intimidated to even make a suggestion that they behave a little less shamelessly.
Some of the other male patrons in the establishment egged the brunette on by saying things like, "Tell it to him baby!" and "He ain't treating you right honey!" They seemed to condone her rotten spoilt child behavior. I suspect that they were hoping to take her home after she finished cursing her boyfriend over the phone and possibly dumping him. The English guy was disgusted and said that was one of the reasons that he wouldn't date an AW, they were way too bitchy. However, it was an even greater shock to him that the men seemed ready to line up for a chance to go out with these women and be subject to the same treatment eventually, and the fact that they were not asked to leave by the management.
I touched a few weeks ago on the subject of even AW's behavior being better in places where men have easy access to a national border, such as San Diego, Seattle, etc.
Bart9000,
That's 100% right. In fact it was your post that gave me the idea when I read what CBGB said in his post. I think that anywhere you find a nearby country where the local guys can access a supply of eager females, the local women seem to have a better attitude.
They might not be conciously aware of it, but I'm sure it affects their behaviour to some degree.
Rock
The major factor with Australia is its proximit to Asia and that unlike North America, Australians get at least four weeks off a year. In many cases, a lot of Australians take a month off, so they can run off to Asia if the sheilas become a pain in the ass. North Americans have been pressured into being "gentlemen" while in other areas its a bit different. I have seen guys in Europe full out burping in front of women, I have even seen this in Oz.
Bart has a good point about guys border hopping for a better girl. I have an easier time getting laid in Las Vegas than in New York. Guys from the southern west coast have the option of driving 3 hours to Mexico (San Diego is just a walk away from the border and it is the most fit state in the US because the AW have some competition) to do some chicas while here in New York, I would have to travel on a 4 hour flight to Dominican Republic as the nearest sex destination. Montreal is okay for mongering but for they can be just as racist and prejudice against older men as Americans for local sex. They also make you pay for everything. However, there are fewer porkers than here in New York.
Here's an Interesting webpage with statistics on homosexuality around the world:
[url]http://dienekes.ifreepages.com/blog/archives/000404.html[/url]
Geez, we are second. AU is first but they are more bisexual than being in the "boys-only" club. AWs drive the non-travelling typical ignorant American man into homosexuality because the non travelling American dude does not know any other alternative. Thank god for foreign women. I would probably be one of those statistics if ALL women were like AWs.
i was surprised about australia having that high a rate because this country is extremely hostile to homos, its not rare for someone to get beaten here for being a fag. there is a strong redneck mentality in australia, some of it has rubbed off on me. [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] and violence against women is a lot higher in the us than in europe because the latter has legal prostitution.
I bet a disproportionate amount of people who have slept with the same sex are women. Women are herd creatures, and they tend to follow whatever trend is popular at the moment. A recent survery showed that by 4-5 percentage points, more women would rather sleep with Angelina Jolie than Brad Pitt.
American women are sick creatures.
I never considered homosexuality. I did discover Quebecoise at the tender age of 17. So I wanted to move there badly. Then I met a Swedish girl when I was 19, heard about european women, then I took off.
I still thought something was wrong with me for quite some time in between the Swedish girl and my trip to Europe. But just realizing that everything is about status, and what they can get from us while giving nothing in return, has increased my self esteem greatly. I was seriously depressed before my trip. Now it is like a heavy burden has been lifted off my chest.
It's funny how AW dont even find you attractive until you are in the top ten percent of men. Just shows their mentality. If you gain 40lbs of muscle and/or pull up in a Porsche, all the bitches who thought you were beneath them will want to be the first one to give you head.
Ty pretty much said it good, I gained one of two things AWs like, muscle, from working out a lot down under do lack of fewer activities versus NYC, going to the gym is a great way to meet some nice pussy down under. One thing that troubled me about Europeans is their lack of good hygiene. I really didn't notice it until I spent some time there, sitting in between 2 young German women who were quite attractive on a flight to Europe from Oz, I noticed a strange odor, and realized it was coming from them. Still a bar of soap would correct that, one of them really digged me and was studying English and asking me to tutor her little bit, at 19 but legal, still she was too young for me.
You can add 40 lbs of fat and pull up in a Porsche and American chicks will still be in line to suck your dick. Like one AW told me once, "Muscles are nice but money is better."
I have a friend who looks like a toad, only much larger. You wouldn't believe how much young AW pussy he pulls, they almost trip over themselves to get their claws in him when he goes out. What is his secret? Well, he owns two bars in popular party areas and he has two private planes along with a pilot on the payroll. Regardless of what you look like AWs will fuck you if you have enough money period.
chocha said it pretty good, have a lot of money and women in the us will go after you, even if you look like quasimodo. donald trump is not handsome, no matter what his ego tells him. with his money he could get a good hair implant instead of that silly toupee thing, an fue procedure which averages 10k is pocket change to him. bill gates is ugly, but melinda is woof woof material, i'm sure he's got plenty of honeys on the side.
You want to know what's REALLY funny?
Donald Trump, Mr. Megabux king of New York real estate, who epitomizes the type of man those NYC b*tches would love to get...... He could have any one of those women, and who does he go for? An Eastern European woman!!
And not just once mind you, but twice. Could this be Trump's way of saying to AWs, "You're fired" :D
Rock
Background: I'd talk to this girl during class breaks, and she'd wait after class just to talk to me. When she comes into class, we make eye contact. She always smiles and winks at me. I dont think signs with women get any clearer than this. Every light was green.
So today I asked her during the break if she'd like to hang out on saturday. i didnt even get into the suggestions as to what we would do. She just said "We'll see."
The only answer I want to hear is "sure" or if not that then "thats not a good time. How about [insert date and time here]."
Do women just like to look at me, flirt with me or what? Hard to get one to actually say yes.
I'm not hurt or upset because I have encountered this numerous times. I promised myself that I would try with 5 more girls before giving up and going back to European girls only. Now? Forget it! I'm done chasing them, because this is probably somewhere around the 40th time in the last 3 years that some c-u-n-t has used me to validate her ego.
They abuse every signal that any decent person would use to see if the other person is interested in them. If I cant gauge with any degree of certainty if they are interested in hooking up with me rather than using me to boost their self esteem (so they can see if they are attractive enough for me to hit on them just so they can turn me down and then laugh behind my back with their GFs), then why should I bother?
So much for one woman being different from all those other bitches. I was actually hoping she might be different. I have a better chance of finding a diamond in a pile of shit than finding a decent American woman even if I lived 10 lifetimes.
I'm not an unattractive guy either (maybe that's what makes me an attention-***** magnet). I'm 5'11'' 210lbs, muscular, square jaw, broad shoulders. What else could they want ? (Oh, money. Nevermind.)
Next time some girl winks at me, I'm giving her the finger.
Ty-It doesn't even necessarily have to be "validating her attractiveness". Maybe she wants to copy your homework. Maybe she wants to make another guy in the class jealous. Maybe she is bored. Maybe she wants you to buy her lunch for her....The point is that this little ***** has things to gain from yanking your chain, and very little to lose from it.
The pseudo lesbian thing gets on my nerves. It was hot at first, but now the sexual frustration that could be alleviated by cutting out the crap and submitting to a man now can be handled by a girlfriend-it is pretty much socially acceptable, some girls even brag about it. Yet even another blow to gender relations.
CB's body odor issue-I understand that in some of the Western European countries, showers are not available frequently for some reason. I don't know what it is. I know a girl (ardent feminist, but believe it or not, we get along), who spent time in France. She was, despite being accostomed to bathing daily, unable to do so, and by her own admissions, became quite "ripe"
I laughed my ass off this week. I knew a little prettyboy that all the girls swooned over and threw themselves at. He was by his own account, a big stud that got mad ass. Recently I found out, that he just came out of the closet, and is dating his male boss. Looks like the bitches are going to have to bite the bullet and find am actual MAN.
That's Life! magazine survey (Dec 9 2004) questioned 5,000 women, average age 38, across England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland on their attitudes to truth, relationships, and behaviour.
# The overwhelming majority (96%) admit to lying.
# Almost half (45%) of the 5,000 questioned told the researchers for That's Life! magazine they tell lies most days.
# Half of all women would lie to their husbands or partners to keep their relationship going if they became pregnant by another man, a survey said today.
# Figures showed one woman in two would not tell her man that the baby she was carrying was not his - if she wanted to stay with him.
# They also said four out of ten (42%) would lie about contraception in order to get pregnant, in spite of the wishes of their partner.
# Eight out of ten women (83%) admit to telling "big, life-changing lies", with 13% saying they do so frequently.
# Partners (70%) are most likely to be lied to by women, with friends (65%), parents (64%), customers and clients (58%) and bosses (57%) also being deceived.
# Six out of ten (57%) admitted to stealing something, while one in four had taken from their parents. A quarter (23%) would "sneak a bottle or two" home if they were invited to a party by a well-off friend.
# Half (49%) would "kiss and tell" to the media for £25,000 if they had a one-night stand with a celebrity, and 38% say they would marry purely for money. 23% would allow their man to sleep with another woman for £50,000.
# Meanwhile, some 79% have got drunk at the office Christmas party, while a third admit to "getting off with someone they don't fancy" and 5% have ended up having sex with the boss.
# An alarming 31% of all women say they would not tell a future partner if they had a sexual disease. This rises for 65% for single women.
# Nearly half (46%) fake orgasms and more than half (55%) claim they are tired, have a headache, or feel ill to "get out of lovemaking".
# A fifth of women with a long-term partner (19%) say they have cheated on him by having an affair, while 30% of all women have had an affair with a married man.
# Most women (68%) do not trust their partner.
I have to quote in this situation Chris Rock.
Men and Women both lie.
However, men tell lies like "I was at John's house"
Women tell lies like "Its your baby"
As shocking as the below stated, remember that as commonly acknowledged, these are UK women......American women are WORSE, due to lack of legal prostitution (Brit guys have easy access to Amsterdam, and Eastern Europe), and as I understand it, more draconian divorce laws. As a guess, I would say multiply all percentages by 1.25.
this may be off the topic of aws but recently my co-workers asked me when i am getting married and have kids. my mother asked me that also. i responded to them that i am a man and i don't have a biological clock like women do. i plan to marry and settle down with kids when i retire. they then said that that would be too late. i then responded with a shopping list of reasons not to do it now and also people that had families late in life. heck, with science, even women over 50 can have healthy non-retarded kids. here is a comparison of advantages of fatherhood in retirement versus pre-retirement:
a retired father can make the kids his hobby. he spends lots of time with his kids and there is no balancing time in the office versus time with kids. he can take them anytime he wants to amusement parks, go to their plays or support them in their competitions.
a working father on the other hand considers his kids a financial obligation. he spends 40 to 80 hours of his week in the office and must balance the time between his career and fatherhood. he only has the weekend to spend with his kids if he is lucky not to be bogged down with other financial obligations (or if he has to go to a weekend meeting at his job or has to work weekends running a business, doing a case, or in the hospital as a doctor.) has to miss important times of a kid's life because of work.
a retired father has paid off all financial obligations such as the mortgage, car debts, etc. he also has money banked if he didn't get married and/ or divorced before retirement. he even has a 401k plan which pays him a sum of money every month without even lifting a finger. he can buy his kids all the latest toys, clothings, electronics, and trends. he even has money leftover for gifts to relatives and nephews and nieces.
a working father still has a mortgage to pay off and risk of losing his home if he gets fired, laid off, or divorced. he has no money saved because he supports his kids and wife even for basic needs like clothing, and food. he is at the mercy of his boss and he even has a second boss- his fat aw wife!! he always must explain to his whiny kids why they can't afford the latest games, toys, or clothing and must put up with the kid's crying that he is denying the kids what they want. sometimes he even borrows money from his retired parents or from relatives.
a retired father can better manage and discipline their children. they can watch their kids 24/7 and catch any bad behavior. my co-workers keep telling me that i'll have less energy to manage the kids. au contrair, i won't be tired after a 50 hour a week job and i can sleep more, thus having more energy to tame children. i can even do this as a single father because i have no job to worry about.
a working father is too caught up in the career to guard or discipline their children. in fact 90% of all bad behavior in children happens in right when they get out of school to when the parent's just get home from work. the worst children are the ones raised by working single mothers who work until 7 and get home at 8:30. the children never see their mother and they could get away with things unsupervised. their father is divorced and also works a 9 to 6 or 7 career. even in 2 parent houses this happens because both parents work and come home late because america has a growing trend towards mandatory longer work hours and it is one of the most expensive places to live in the world. that is why nyc still has the worst crime rate among children and the stats hide this to make the mayor look good.
a retired father is more patient and nurturing to their kids. they don't have the added stress of a job. they also don't run a rat race of working and keeping up with the bills with extra mouths to feed. they therefore have better relationships with their children. in fact, my grandmother treated me better than my mother because she did not have to work 24/7 just to feed me. my grandmother had a pension and just used that to feed me. she was the daycare center for me and my brothers while my parents were both out working.
a working father sometimes resents his children because they are a financial obligation. they get angry with their kids for spending too much of their hard earned money on trendy clothing, games, or other gadgets or for running up their family share plan cell phone bills. i, too, was punished by my father for buying an almost complete collection of "transformers" with my allowance so my father put any further allowance in the "college fund". i resented my parents at the time because kids at an early age don't understand the deeper meaning of things but now, i understand my father's predicament for having me at such an early age.
retired fathers also make better husbands. they have more time to deal with the wife's demands. they also could remember more special events and anniversaries because they don't have to worry about memorizing a speech for the next capital budget meeting. they also have more time to do household chores or have more money to hire a maid. therefore, the little things like dishwashing or cleaning won't cause problems in the marriage. they can also stop arguments in its tracks. let's say a wife is angry at a trivial thing. she can let it out on the spot because the retired father is there to listen.
a working father doesn't have time or patience for a wife's argument. working families are a disaster waiting to happen. a father is in the office and has problems at his job. on top of that, his commute is a pain on the subways or traffic jams if he drives. then he has to come home to a nagging wife whose anger stews and gets worse as it is mixed with her impatience waiting for him to come home and to give him a piece of her mind over a problem caused by him. they argue over dinner, the husband sleeps on the couch, then the process repeats for the next day with gropgginess from sleeping on the couch.
and if things end up in divorce....
the retired father may lose the house but at least he doesn't have the added pressure of paying a mortgage that is still owed on the house.
the retired father also has a better chance of winning custody of the kids because he stays home.
the divorce is funded by non-taxed pension money rather than work money.
the working dad loses the house and must pay mortgage.
he loses custody of the kids because he is working.
the ex-wife gets 75% of his pay-check after taxes and has no money left for himself.
last but not least, the retired dad enjoyed his youth to the fullest and did not make sacrifices just to spend all his resources on his family at an early age. the retied father has time and energy to exercise and stay in shape to live a longer, healthier life. they can live past 80 even and see their kid's graduation from college. the retired father has travelled the globe and knows better from experiences on who to marry and has dodged the bullet of marrying and having kids with an aw and has not made any of the mistakes a working father made.
a working dad's life is cut short and about 99% of them have not experienced life outside the us or even their hometown. they become out of shape couch potatoes eating fast foods because they are tired and don't have time to cook healthy or exercise. some even die off from their health problems. they are frowned upon by their kids. they've also made every possible financial and child rearing mistake because they are inexperienced. their sad excuse is, "i've given up everything (like being an olympic gold metal winner) but having you is worth it."
anyone else asking me when i am settling down, i will tell them straight out that i am holding off until i am 60.
The following is from a 1950's Home Economics textbook intended for High School girls, teaching how to prepare for married life.
1. Have dinner ready: Plan ahead, even the night before, to have a delicious meal - on time. This is a way of letting him know that you have been thinking about him, and are concerned about his needs. Most men are hungry when they come home and the prospects of a good meal are part of the warm welcome needed.
2. Prepare yourself: Take 15 minutes to rest so you will be refreshed when he arrives. Touch up your makeup, put a ribbon in your hair and be fresh looking. He has just been with alot of work-weary people. Be a little gay and a little more interesting. His boring day may need a lift.
3. Clear away the clutter. Make one last trip through the main part of the house just before your husband arrives, gathering up school books, toys, paper, etc. Then run a dust cloth over the tables. Your husband will feel he has reached a haven of rest and order, and it will give you a lift, too.
4. Prepare the children: Take a few minutes to wash the children's hands and faces if they are small, comb their hair, and if necessary, change their clothes. They are little treasures and he would like to see them playing the part.
5. Minimize the noise: At the time of his arrival, eliminate all noise of washer, dryer, dishwasher or vacuum. Try to encourage the children to be quiet. Be happy to see him. Greet him with a warm smile and be glad to see him.
6. Some Dont's: Don't greet him with problems or complaints. Don't complain if he's late for dinner. Count this as minor compared with what he might have gone through that day.
7. Make him comfortable: Have him lean back in a comfortable chair or suggest he lie down in the bedroom. Have a cool or warm drink ready for him. Arrange his pillow and offer to take off his shoes. Speak in a low, soft, soothing and pleasant voice. Allow him to relax and unwind.
8. Listen to him: You may have a dozen things to tell him, but the moment of his arrival is not the time. Let him talk first.
9. Make the evening his: Never complain if he does not take you out to dinner or to other places of entertainment; instead, try to understand his world of strain and pressure, his need to be home and relax.
10. The goal: Try to make your home a place of peace and order where your husband can relax.
Wow! I really appreciate reading all these posts. Just plain old guy talk without the bullshit. I'm a native new yorker and have always battled the dating situation here. New york in 2005 has got to be the worst place to meet a women period! Even if shes not american. Those who come here from other countries turn out just like any other women does in new york (of course with exceptions) Here in new york there is no singles scene unless your willing to waste a ton of money on useless encounters. I never enjoy my dinner on dates anyway. Too worried about the bill. New jersey girls are a little cooler but hard to get to due to there location and the jersey singles scene is very blue collar. If your not one of them your not going to have any luck. Just two worlds apart.
I really value what someone said about women watching their P&Q's in states where pussy is available close by. So very true. The weak ego suddenly works to our advantage. When I was able to get pussy here in new york during the good old days I was thinking more lodgically and therefore stronger to deal with gender games. Now I don't even bother and as a lifetime gym buff I would never give a hoot about a girl in the gym unless I wanted to get wrapped up in a sex in the city episode. That show has ruined dating in new york city for a long time. They all want to live that lame show but nobody wants to act out the smut scenes unless it's a paying role. You'll never make it in showbiz honeys.
I love latin women for many reasons and also latin culture. I think they treat there men really well and I think some latin men abuse it thats why they like non latin men alot of the times but I would have to live in their country since I already see how someplace like new york could change them.
The thing the other guy said about american women turning guys gay is so true alot of these guys are into pussy thats why there all shaving there chest and butt to look "smooth" the gender thing in america is way too fucked up and alot of it has to do with not haveing any sexual outlet what so ever. Peace.
Well done, Darkseid. Excellent post with lots of good reasons not to marry.
My reason is not so complex: quite simply...I've always had this thing for young, petite & cute girls. Always. Since my first erection, there's nothing like a cute little spinner to just get me going.
Since people don't change (I don't think I have in the last 10 years after I turned 18), I don't think my tastes would change.
So why would I still like my wife when she's not young, cute & petite?
True love - screw it. Give me a hot nasty 3 some with some pouty just-legal girls any night!
Artisttyp, I love Latin culture so much more than Western culture because of their dancing. Latin culture has mandatory full body contact dancing (a reason why Latin men hook up more than their estern counterparts). You CANNOT do salsa, merengue, and tango 3 feet away from each other, you must hold the girl's waist and hand and lead. Hip Hip, techno, and disco dancers is non-contact especially here in New York and provides too much of an out for women who don't know you. It doesn't give you a chance to feel up the woman or for the woman to feel you up to see if you are compatible sexually, unlike Latin dancing which allows you to show how fluent and smooth you are in bed. In New York clubs, I often end up dancing face-to-face but 1-3 feet away from the girl, then the girl's negative stereotype of me having a small weenie for being Asian doesn't go away. I hooked up with my Cuban American ex-fiancee because I was dancing merengue with her and she felt my motions, and felt all the rest of my equipment and knew from that that I am a larger than average Asian guy. She even told her friends that that stereotype is false. If westernized culture is more like Latin culture, we would hook up more often.
The reason I have found that European women tend to be nicer than AWs is a major cultural difference, in most continental European countries, there is only one breadwinner, the husband. The fact that the women stays home and takes care of kids or does work around the house makes them quieter. I have noticed that a lot of European women are better suited for family life because of this. I remember this when I was taking a German class and the instructor kept referring to the male students in class as "men" with emphasis, she had a problem with an audio visual setup and asked the men in the class to help her, completely ignoring the females.
Unfortunately for us many women(USA) walk around thinking their pussies are diamond plated. It does not help the situation that we act pussy whipped all the time. I don't care how ugly an AW is, she can place her ugly ass pictures on CL and be bombarded with thousands of emails from guys wanting to screw her. Man, I wished I lived in Aussie land!
Darkseid,
Yeah I think the stereotype thing is played out and harfmful to human realations period.I think we have more of it in america due to many factors.I'd be intrested to know if asian/american women follow in the same path? Also are you into asian women what is the dating culture like between asians in new york if any. Meaning do they hold asian or american principals?
Sounds like you like to partner dance.I had a few salsa lessons in ecuador(good place for pussy and much more) But I'm more into the freestyle hanging out on the corner dance without partners. I' really feel the afro/latin music vibe. It's really powerful.
I was curious to know if you go to the socials given by dance studios here in the city. Are they fun. Single girls?
If your ever in tijuana try going to one of the little mexican dance bars.Theres hookers there but you can also partner dance with them to "banda" music which I've grown to really love.The girls will teach you if you dont know how.
I disagree with CBGB.
In most western European nations, if you want the "good life" (or want to buy a house or apartment) BOTH parents work.
This has been the case for the last 8 years at least.
Culture evolves, or devolves, you have Walmart, we have Carrefour.
Cheers,
Sporadic
Jackson I feel it's important you waive your rules about FULL CAPS and allow fellow mongers get a true flavor of the feelings of this AW provider. This is her response to ladies lowering their prices in the Atlanta area. I'd really like to hear your comments about this.
The lady is Ashleigh in Atlanta
HEY, AS PROVIDERS OF A MUCH NEEDED SERVICE IN ATLANTA, WHY DO THE
LADIES ON HERE FEEL THAT THEY NEED TO LOWER THEIR RATES AND STANDARDS JUST TO GET MONEY, THEN COMPLAIN WHEN THE PROVIDERS ARE STILL TRYING TO ONLY SPEND $50.00?
WE SHOULD NOT LOWER OURSELVES TO DOING 1 HOUR INCALL APPOINTMENTS FOR $100.00. I FEEL THAT THERE IS NO LADY ON THIS SITE (FREE OR NOT) THAT SHOULD CHARGE LESS THAN $150.00 FOR AN INCALL APPOINTMENT. YOU SEE THE PROVIDERS ON EROS AND *** ADVERTISING FOR $200 AND UP AND ARE RECEIVING THE REQUESTED RATES, WHY, BECAUSE THEY NO HOW TO TELL A CLIENT NO I AM NOT GOING THAT LOW. LADIES, STOP TRYING TO UNDER CUT THE NEXT MARY, JANE, OR SUE, IF ALL OF US UNITE AND STICK TO A CERTAIN RATE, THE HOBBYIST WILL HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO PAY THE RATE WE SET.
TO SAY YOU ARE DOING 15 MINUTES FOR $50 MEANS YOU SHOULD BE DOING 1 HOUR FOR $200.00 LOGICALLY. 30 MINUTES IS $100 AND 45 IS $150. LET'S STICK TO OUR GUNS, THERE ARE SOME VERY PRETTY WOMEN IN ATLANTA, WHO POST ON HERE, IF YOU FEEL THAT YOU ARE ONLY WORTH $50, GO STROLL METROPOLITAN AND LEAVE THE UPSCALE RATES HERE SO THAT THE UPSCALE CLIENTS WILL PAY WHAT YOU ARE WORTH.
WE SHOULDN'T BE SO QUICK TO CALL THE HOBBYIST CHEAP WHEN WE ARE GIVING OURSELVES AWAY (I KNOW I LOVE TO SHOP FOR SALES PRICES) AND $100 FOR ANY 1 HOUR APPOINTMENT IS SALES PRICES. IT'S OK TO RUN SPECIALS DON'T GET ME WRONG, BUT WHY WOULD A PERSON SPEND $150 ON A GOOD QUALITY PROVIDER WHO WILL TREAT HIM THE WAY HE WANTED TO BE TREATED WHEN "SALLY" WILL ONLY CHARGE HIM $100. WITH THAT $100 COMES A RUSH SERVICE TO GET THE NEXT $100 CUSTOMER IN. (NOT TO MENTION THAT SHE MAY HAVE BAD REVIEWS ON ***, OR HAS HAD TO CHANGE HER PROVIDER NAME BECAUSE EVERYONE KNOWS SHE'S A CON OR GIVES TERRIBLE SERVICE.) THEN HE WILL TALK BAD ABOUT THE PROVIDER WHEN HE GOT WHAT HE PAID FOR.
SO LET'S MAKE IT EASY ON EVERYBODY, PROVIDERS STOP LOWERING YOUR DONATIONS JUST TO GET SOMEONE IN THE DOOR, AND HOBBYIST STOP BEING SO CHEAP, AND IF YOU DO FEEL THE NEED TO BE CHEAP, STOP TALKING ABOUT THE PROVIDER IF THE SERVICE SUCKED BECAUSE YOU GOT WHAT YOU PAID FOR.
Artisttype,
Asian American women do follow the same path and many do not date Asian guys. They too become prudes because of feminism and New York City has the highest rate of feminists. Just as the Western women have a hard time dating in Asian countries, the Asian men are just as unwanted in New York City. Asian women think Asian American men are usually of lower status (both careerwise and "size-wise"). Unfortunately for the Aisan culture there is no partner dancing nor the Afro-dance vibe, which I also like because I can breakdance to it but can't disprove the stereotype with it though, unlike partner dancing. That's why I love partner dancing much more because I get to feel up the girl and she gets to feel me up.
I used to go to these social events in the city but the ratio is not so favorable for the guys. The women:men ratio in these clubs is 1:10 and the clubs are sausage factories so I no longer go to NYC clubs. It seems the more competition for these women, the more these women get snobbish and the sausage factory even fight for fat chicks. There was even an article published in the newspaper of 2 men fighting for a fat chick (and this chick is ugly and fat) and one shooting the other for her. I, too, got into bar and club fights when I was younger and competing for women. Even when I beat the guy up, she goes to another guy who snatches her up or she causes another fight. And some of these women find this amusing and flattering. If statistics say there are more women than men in New York City, don't believe it. This ploy is only to attract more men for unwanted fat and old women (Yes, the "more women" are actually old or fat undateable ladies. These stats don't say how many are actually doable or dateable.) It seems the more competition for their twat, the higher they price their pussy. Eastern Europe, South America and Asia (except China which is also a sausage factory due to the fact they want boys as their only child with the one child law so women :men ratio is 1:3) are the cure for the sausage factory blues of NYC because those countries have a higher women:men ratio. Even 1:1 women:men is much better than 1:10. Now I don't even bother with NYC chicks because there are more chicks available in other continents.
Darkseid, I am so happy I don't live in the US with those fat cows they call women over there. The rest of the world still has a major edge, I get 8 weeks a year to travel the world, usually Europe and South America when I get bored in Ozzie. A lot of my Australian friends watch Jerry Springer and they immediately feel a lot better knowing that most Australian women are not THAT OBNOXIOUS.
Hey darkseid, I feel your pain man.
Listen, the race card is played differently in different regions of the country. I grew up in NYC as a kid/ young teenager and then in Miami, Florida. I now live in Los Angeles, California where the race card definitely comes into play in a total different fashion as it does in the east coast, particularly the southeast coast region.
I think that being Asian / Asian-American in California would be a big (if not huge) plus for you. I try to steer clear of discussing race in this forum given its sensitive nature and the fact that the main purpose of this site is to provide info in the P4P scene and in bashing AW. However, race does play a detrimental role in terms of getting any type of play with AW / Americanized-Women in this country. I can tell you from what I've seen that as an Asian (the same goes for Whites), you would have much better prospects in dating Asian women and AW than do males from other races. Believe it or not!! I notice how much more appeal Asian men have with both, Asian women and AW than say, me, given that I'm hispanic of non-Mexican descent (this puts me in the bottom of the appeal list).
Stereotypes do play out in CA, however, for Asian males, they come out in a positive light. Intelligence is probably the most popular one and this ofcourse is interpretted as a potential for being a high-salaried career professional. I think this is a very good thing, I personally don't take it in a bad way, why should I? I read in an article recently that the standard of living has declined for all minorities in the U.S. except for Asians, for whom it has actually raised significantly. AW know this. It is also much more likely for Asians to be hired along with Whites for most positions available in CA anyway. And AW know this too. They know this very well.
So I definitely recommend you give California a try. I can only speak for Southern California as I'm not familiar with the Northern California setting. Granted, you have Asian communities from all of the Orient here. I'm not sure how the intra-racial relations play out given my very limited exposure to the Asian communities, but I suspect they are good for the most part. I've never heard of anyone being against someone else because they're Korean or Japanese or Filipino........ This does happen in the latino community (Mexicans vs non-Mexicans) but this is an entirely different can of beans. I agree with you, Nevada seems to be the exception to the rule in the West coast.
[quote=Cyberdas]... given that I'm hispanic of non-Mexican descent (this puts me in the bottom of the appeal list)...[/quote]
If you think you're at the bottom of the appeal list then try being an African-American (it's kinda funny, because some people out there hate our asses and aren't even sure why - go figure).
I will vouch for what you say about the Southern California scene, however. I never had so much pussy in my life (with the exception of being overseas of course). I think what happens is that on the East coast folks believe a person has to conform to a certain group or belong to a "type". If you don't fit into any category then people don't know what to do with you. On the West coast things were different for me: there's already a million freaks over there so nobody notices one more. As a result, some things which would be held against a guy over here in the East end up not really being "disqualifying" factors in the West (at least this was my experience). This means a man can feel a little more free to relax and just be himself instead of having to have the right looks/income/demographic/clique/whatever (or getting pigeonholed into some category whether or not it even applies).
Of course I could be off the mark, but that was my experience.
Interestingly (and this may just be my mistaken perception), but where I live (hilbilly hellhole) it seems that the Hispanic and African American guys are getting all the poon. I have heard and do believe that the primary causation for this is that the redneck racist attitudes of the preceding generation, causes a fetishization of the "forbidden fruit".
[QUOTE=Cyberdas] I'm hispanic of non-Mexican descent (this puts me in the bottom of the appeal list).[/QUOTE]Cyberdas, this is a new racial/nationality concept for me. Although I know this sounds bad, I did not know there was a level below hispanic Mexicans. In southern South America & the Caribbean, I´m sure that racial hierarchies and prejudices exist between black, white, and indian/mestizo hispanics that live there.
But in the USA most hispanics are indians. Are you saying that, for instance, a Mexican indian looks down on a Peruvian or Ecuadorian indian? When I lived in the US I worked and hung out with lots of hispanics (mostly Mexicans) and I never heard or witnessed anything like this.
In Argentina, where I live, it seems that indians are at the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder regardless of their nationality. Blacks here seem to have a high social status because they are so rare and people often assume that black guys are foreign soccer stars or actors. Several Argentine girls have told me that they fantasize about nailing a black guy.
[QUOTE=Bart9000]Interestingly (and this may just be my mistaken perception), but where I live (hilbilly hellhole) it seems that the Hispanic and African American guys are getting all the poon. I have heard and do believe that the primary causation for this is that the redneck racist attitudes of the preceding generation, causes a fetishization of the "forbidden fruit".[/QUOTE]
That's a pretty interesting point, Bart (I wonder if it doesn't have anything to do with the popularity which urban culture has enjoyed for the past decade or so). I think it pretty much illustrates Cyberdas's point about geographical variances in AW attitudes.
Now that I think about it, some time ago someone in this very forum commented on how AW's in areas near places like Mexico tend to have slightly less bitchy attitudes when compared to their counterparts elsewhere in the states. From my experience in San Diego it seemed as if the women there were very aware that they had real competition (both pro and non-pro) just across the border. I wonder how true that may or may not be for other parts of the country?
I actually picked up on that hypothesis from "Dr Drew" on the "Lovelines" radio program. On that program, an incidence came up that the child of a homicide detective, who was shown gruesome pictures growing up in an attempt to keep him out of the "family business" instead actually gave the kid some necrophilliac tendencies. I took the hypothesis one step further to explain the behavior I'm seeing. That actually kind of makes sense from an evolutionary biology standpoint-Group X cannot stand Group Y and would like to exterminate them. However, Group X's children grow up highly sexually attracted to group Y, thus detering genocide and perpetuating the species or whatever. Sort of a cosmic joke too.
This incidently also may in part help explain my favorite phenomena the "bad boy loser" thing......"You stay away from rotten little Johnny...his Mom is a drunk, and his ne'er do well father beats her.....". Mommy and Daddy hated him so much that I had to sleep with him.
The popularity of urban culture is probably also a factor.
I knew that I was going to set off the wrong vibes by most post. I really didn't mean anything bad by it although it could've come off as such. I hope I didn't offend anyone as I didn't have intentions in doing so. What I was trying to expose was the different racial-related discrepancies/ differences/ tensions that exist in different regions of the U.S. and how this comes into play in terms of landing AW/Americanized Women.
Unfortunately a lot of tension and friction among the same minority groups do more often than not exist. It has been my experience (and probably mine only) so I could be wrong. I also want to add that I don't have anything against anyone as I have friends/ coleagues/ coworkers/ etc.. from all walks of life. I like learning and experiencing new and different things from other cultures / races and what have you that are different from mine.
Smut Villain, I totally understand your point of view; I could only imagine how hard that must be. I also agree with you about there already being a million freaks out here. Hell, no doubt I could be one of them..he.he..he.. I also agree about the differences in disqualifying factors from one coast or region to the other. For me, my experience has been the inverse of yours as I had an ok time getting pussy in the east coast.
The thing about AW in San Diego is very true as I can personally atest to that. I have some buddies who are in the Navy so ocassionally I hang out with them in San Diego. Having Tijuana virtually down the street does ease off a lot of tension in the club / socializing scenes because alternatives exists. The pressure is not so strong because we know where we can go anytime of the day for some action. Believe it or not, a lot of guys don't know this (regarless of their proximity to the border), don't know how to go about doing it or would prefer to pander to AW and thus go through the painful and often deceitful rituals. Can the same be said of the areas bordering the French-speaking Canadian regions?
[quote=Cyberdas]I knew that I was going to set off the wrong vibes by most post. I really didn't mean anything bad by it although it could've come off as such. I hope I didn't offend anyone as I didn't have intentions in doing so. What I was trying to expose was the different racial-related discrepancies/ differences/ tensions that exist in different regions of the U.S. and how this comes into play in terms of landing AW/Americanized Women.[/quote]
Judging from the responses so far it doesn't sound as if anyone's offended. And if they are - so what? Race is like a big elephant sitting in the middle of the living room, but nobody's trying to talk about it. It's there and very real, but (because it can sometimes be ugly) nobody wants to offend anyone else so we don't say anything. The problem with this approach is that nothing gets done about a tangible problem which affects everything around us, even (and sometimes especially) mongering and relations with the opposite sex.
The first step in overcoming an issue is to acknowledge its' existence. Your post was just an example of acknowledging reality.
Bart,
Is that hill-billy hell hole up North? I have seen a few redneck chicks with African American and Hispanic guys down South but not that many, I think it is more common up North. Usually the couples tend to be teenagers, so perhaps they have moved away from the "old" way of thinking.
While on this topic I'll mention something that I've noticed. There are AWs out there who are getting knocked up by Mexican illegals and then finding out that they can't sue them for child support since they can't legally work in the US. Is it possible that AWs are having the tables turned on them? I know of one case where the AW tried to get the illegal alien father of her child deported to Mexico and she was told by immigration authorities that they needed several illegals in one area to made a raid worth their while. Apparently, you can safely deal with an AW if you have no social security number, no visible source of income and don't legally exist in the eyes of the government.
I live in the northernmost part of the northernmost southern state-Indiana. Along the shore of lake Michigan, (away from the expensive beachfront of course), there are dense groupings of African Americans and Hispanics (mostly Mexicans and a few Puerto Ricans). The rest of the state is cracker hell-might as well be Mississippi.
I posted on your other topic a while back. I had noticed that a lot of "low grade" caucasian AW (uneducted, fat, ugly, low IQ, low class...) were pairing up with "regular guy" hispanic nationals. I'm guessing there is a perceived difference in status (or possibly it could be imigration issues) from the hispanic guys that makes the fugly AW attractive to them. I do work with some of these guys, and have seen them lusting after AW.....I tell them "No No No....Americano Senorita' estes no bueno....estes muy gordo....punta......." (compremiso spelling-I'm self taught)
I've been to Indiana before so I know exactly what you're talking about. Lots of corn and lots of caucasians. I'm inclined to believe that the Hispanic guys are hooking up with AWs because of the novelty of white snapper. It can't be migratory issues because it appears that they are smart enough not to get married in most cases. I have noticed that our South American brothers have a fascination with blonds (rubias) often without consideration of weight or looks. They always seem to ask about them when I'm in SA. I don't understand how they can be so crazy over whales just because they have blond hair and blue eyes, but they can have them all as long as I get the hot Latinas.
Darkseid,
I am surprise that you say Asian women don't date Asian men. I have noticed over the past 10-15 years that many White women wer married to or dating Asian men. I had assumed is it was because the ratio of men to women in some Asian countries (China and India) is very high, and the men had to find non-Asian women to marry, in addition to White women not wanting to make compromises with White men when there were Asian men available who were more "desperate" and therefore less demanding.
But after reading what you wrote, it seems that some Asian men go with White women because Asian women won't go with them. I am very surprised by that. Who do Asian women date? I have rarely seen Asian women with non-Asian men. All of the mixed couples I have seen involved Filipinas with military guys. I know that Russel Simmons, the founder of Def Jam Records, is married to a former Filipina model. Tiger Woods' mother is Thai. I think the mother of the Tilly sisters, the actresses, is Japanese. And of course, John Lennon married a Japanese women. But these are 4 examples out of 1 BILLION Chinese and Indian women!
[QUOTE=darkseid]
Asian American women do follow the same path and many do not date Asian guys. They too become prudes because of feminism and New York City has the highest rate of feminists. Just as the Western women have a hard time dating in Asian countries, the Asian men are just as unwanted in New York City. Asian women think Asian American men are usually of lower status (both careerwise and "size-wise"). [/QUOTE]