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Lenin,
If you read this story carefully you will notice the same pattern what happened everywhere: women beat husband and then call to police.
PurplenGold,
Yeah. I hear about this on the news all the time. It's so common that there are special task forces just to deal with sending the men to jail. Are you smoking something?
Lenin is on the mark, except for the gratuitous US bashing, regarding the balance of power having swung completely away from men in the US – to the detriment of men *and* women.
Women don’t have to beat their husband – why go to so much work when they can file a restraining order which will be granted automatically regardless of the merits.
A salon.com article states:
“in Massachusetts, as in most other states, a temporary no-contact order can be issued ex parte -- without the defendant being present or notified, let alone informed of the specific charges -- and solely on the word of the complainant”
If you have a flaming row with your wife or SO and she holds a grudge, her ultimate weapon is the restraining order which she can get lickety split on her word alone. Not even that the man has committed any real violence but because he is a potential threat – solely her word against yours.
This means that a man can be kicked out of his house on zero grounds, with zero notice – with, for all intents and purposes, zero grounds for appeals because the system is set up to err on the side of the woman (the article does explain that some men use the same tactics but it is 3:1 used by women.)
Because we (men and women) have been brainwashed into believing that men are rampaging brutes with hair triggers we are completely oblivious that some evil women can use this tool as a weapon against men. Given that an unjustifed restraining order can ruin a decent man’s life – an ‘incident’ (probably contrived) with an AW can bring the entire wrath of the state penal apparatus on a man’s head – men have to act cautiously to the point of self abnegation in their domestic relations with women – “pussywhipped” doesn’t do justice to men’s decline in legal status.
It is not about domestic violence it is about turning men into craven cowards - . This is the feminist agenda which is supported by the US media and a lot of men too. And it is working.
So Lenin, you are right on the money.
Feminists have such a grip on the cojones of the US media that getting an honest take on the situation is impossible.
Here’s the link to the salon.com article – it is absolutely hair-raising.
http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1999/10/25/restraining_orders/index.html
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lenin
[i]>Posted by purplengold
>And, we allow too many negative-minded immigrants into the >country.
[/i][b][red]Please use the quote button and clip what you don't want. It'll make it easier on you and us.[/red][/b][i]
Thanks purplengold, I’m glad what I hit American painful spot.
Here is American problem! You are American so stuck with old thinking, political correctness and stereotypes that
you don’t want the fresh ideas because the new ideas could be quit painful.
[/i][b][red]I'm not against new ideas at all. But, I've yet to see you post one. All you post is gripes about how awful the American 'system' is. And, how evil American women are. This is pure negativism, and, despite what you think, it doesn't bring progress.[/red][/b][i]
Actually you have same kind of mentality what Russians had 15 years ago When I Live in Communist Russia I had nickname dissident because I tried to show to people that the old System is completely rotted. They didn’t like to hear it. It is funny, they told me: "Get out from Russia and go to your f*king America."
Now when I see the same people they ask me how did I knew this in that time? Simple - Just open your eyes It is funny, I feel like my old story repainting here again.
[/i][b][red]So, now Russia is so much better? Why are you here? See, it's not that you were unhappy in Russia and set about changing things. You ran away from that situation and commenced complaining here. Again, just negative, destructive crap.[/red][/b][i]
Negative-Minded people create progress. Positive-Mind people don’t need to change anything.
[/i][b][red]This is absolutely incorrect. Negative people stew in their bitterness. Positive people can be one of two types. You have polyanas who believe everythings great. These fit your statement. But, you also have people who think things are wrong and decide to try to change them. They might start a new business to work the way they want, or They might go for political activism. Etc...[/red][/b][i]
America high tech revolution was created by hundred of thousand negative-minded immigrants programmers.
[/i][b][red]Dude. Where do you get this shit? You might want to look into just who the leaders were/are in the information revolution over the past couple decades. Gates, Jobs, Wosniak, Ellison, etc... These are the pioneers of industry.[/red][/b][i]
If American afraid negative-minded immigrants is nothing going to be changed here. Just complains, complains and more complains how bad American women.
[/i][b][red]Again, what have you done but complain? What have you done to try to better the 'system'?[/red][/b][/QUOTE]
As for your other post, I'm not upset at all, and certainly, not due to your arguments. You don't mean anything to me, so you aren't going to be able to get under my skin. But, I like lively debate.
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[i]America high tech revolution was created by hundred of thousand negative-minded immigrants programmers. [/i]
Oh, puhleeze! How old are [i]you[/i], exactly? I don't recall there being thousands of immigrant programmers back in the 80s, which is when the revolution really was happening. And those hundreds of thousands of programmers are still only a very small percentage of the total. But that's off topic in any event -- it's just that this kind of hyperbolic statement takes credence away from the rest of your posting.
I'm hardly afraid of you or your ideas -- when you first started posting I found them very intriguing and thought-provoking. But that's quite a while ago, and now I'd just like to have them connected to something as opposed to simply wildly spewing negative thoughts. Your tone since those original postings has basically and constantly become not "American women suck" but "everything about America sucks" -- which is precisely why people are inviting you to disembark. Just complains, complains and more complains about how bad American system. Not really any fresh ideas at all beyond the idea "need to be able to hit the b*tch without having police get involved, like in Russia." Gee, that's real new.
As far as the "woman beat husband and then call to police" thing, well, there's no doubt that it happens at times. There's also no doubt that the far, far, more frequent occurence is the opposite side of things -- there's a huge amount of domestic violence, and the vast majority of it is men hitting women. Twenty years ago that wasn't something that could draw a cop at all unless someone went to a hospital, now it is. Ten years ago the concept that men could be hit or abused by women was a joke, now people see it happens, with the general percentage considered to be about 15% of cases (haven't been able to track down whether that includes same-sex partners, which it may) and even some feminists are starting to acknowledge unbalance of the issue (see [url]http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2002/1104a.html[/url] for example).
In another few years we'll no doubt reach some degree of balance, where the cops will know that 80% or so of the time the man is the aggressor, but that the other amount of time that's not the case. That's the way things swing in a society. Not much help at the moment, but the thing you cite is hardly an epidemic, and, frankly, guys who are going for mail-order brides are hardly prime examples of how American men deal with women, and, in fact, are usually basically the opposite -- people with little or no relationship experience or confidence, who are therefore ripe for abuse.
And I seriously doubt there's much chance that we'd ever be able to put the "Russian System would teach her how to respect the man" concept to the test, as there simply ain't gonna be any American women signing up for that trip -- and it's not because of the fear they'd be put in their place, it's because the economics suck.
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Thanks Jak, you are expressed my ideas better than I did.
joe_zop, purplengold I really appreciate your interest but I am not going to
Spend my time answering your question which always
finished by: where do you get this shit or crap.
I told you already, you have same mentality that Russians have 25-15 years
Ago. Whenever I gave new ideas they without even thinking told me that it is crap or shit. Eventually I was right.
America high tech revolution was created by hundred of thousand negative-minded immigrants programmers.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by purplengold
[i]
Dude. Where do you get this shit? You might want to look into just who the leaders were/are in the information revolution over the past couple decades. Gates, Jobs, Wosniak, Ellison, etc... These are the pioneers of industry.
[/i][/QUOTE]
This could be said by persons who don’t know very well
A dirty Kitchen of software development. In All places where I works, and I worked in lot of places most and best programmers was from foreign contries. American media paying attention to management or presedent of companies but many, many times I was witness how stupid all these people.
And it takes lot of courage and work from foreign programmers to fix the problems, which constantly created by those idiots.
60% of all software projects failed and most of them due to stupidity of American presedents and management. But they got all respect in media.
Foreign Programmers got nothing.
So purplengold are you still think this is shit? You got your info
From stupid media, I got that really is.
Your also confused everything else what I said
I don’t have time to go to details
I just trying to say that just by screemnig shit and crap, you are
really who make mess from this discussion not me.
You just want to fight. You are not open for new ideas yet.
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Good enough -- we're dismissive and not open to new ideas, but you, on the other hand, are full of new ideas but just don't have time to engage those who don't immediately roll over and agree with you. Another misunderstood genius. Yawn.
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Before to find any solution the problem should be identified.
This is that I am trying to do now. It is not negative thinking. This is first stage of any
positive process. First we have to have consensus about the problem.
I think, the American women sucks. I am not the first and the last who said this
I think the big part of American System and American Culture responsible for this situation.
joe_zop, are you agree with above statement?
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Lenin, what new idea have you posted? You put up an idea for discussion, I'll pay attention and give feedback. Untill you do that, don't say that I'm not open to new ideas. FYI, one of my favorite things to do, when starting a new project, (or when stuck in the middle of an existing one) is to have a 'Synergy Meeting'. This is pretty much a brainstorming thing, but you take it one step further and focus on ways in which disparate ideas can be combined to make a better whole. Does this sound like someone against new ideas?
One thing though. People who just say "That's stupid!" to whatever they disagree with often get thrown out of these meetings. So, if you are ever invited, be careful of your attitude.
Second, I am a very senior software architect. I've been working in the IT industry for over 15 years and have been in the trenches, coding, for much of that because I love it. So, my info doesn't come from the 'stupid media.' It comes from the inside and from reading every piece of major literature about the industry (both technical and historical) dating back over 25 years. You are so incredibly ignorant about the whole situation that you don't even have a clue how stupid your remark was.
As for the superiority of foreign programmers, that is also a load of shit. I've worked with a lot of imported [i]talent[/i]. I've also done many stints as the liason to off-shore developers. There are some very, very good foreigners in the field and I've had the opportunity to work with many. But the typical scenario of someone trained overseas is the automaton. The problem with Indian, Russian and Chinese programmers is that they are not trained to think out of the box. The educational systems over there focus on rote learning and absolute respect for the teacher. The product of this type of schooling is someone who has a hard time solving problems to which he/she hasn't been previously exposed and who just does what he/she is told without thought to whether it contradicts what is right. It takes a great deal of specification to work with these people. There are advantages. They are typically cheap, and will perform the monkey work with dogged determination. But, they are certainly [b]NOT[/b] superior to the average Western trained engineer. I'm an expert in this field, and this particular topic is one that I deal with on a daily basis. Care to go into details now?
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lenin
[i]Before to find any solution the problem should be identified.
This is that I am trying to do now. It is not negative thinking. This is first stage of any
positive process. First we have to have consensus about the problem.
I think, the American women sucks. I am not the first and the last who said this
I think the big part of American System and American Culture responsible for this situation.
joe_zop, are you agree with above statement? [/i][/QUOTE]
Lenin, maybe it's just your approach. Maybe, instead of putting out a complaint and asking for agreement, you could instead just propose a solution to what you see as a problem. You will probably want to state the problem within the context of your solution.
An example would be something like: [i]Lenin, maybe it's just your approach. Maybe, instead of putting out a complaint and asking for agreement, you could, instead, just propose a solution to what you see as a problem. You will probably want to state the problem within the context of your solution.[/i]
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Guys,
I strongly suspect that Lenin is OK in the intelligence department but is lacking in terms of experience with American culture, language and social protocol. He probably doesn't even know what he doesn't know.
I, too, was somewhat enraged by some of his statements and unwarranted attacks on people here. I submit that it's time to IGNORE this character and get on with the topic of America Women per se. I mean, don't even respond to him and if he persists, contacting Jackson might be appropriate.
I've found that on similar types of forums that you always seem to have the obligatory fool who engages in outrageous statements.
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Lenin, I agree that, on the whole, American women are far bigger pains than their counterparts in other countries. I don't agree with a blanket statement that [i]all[/i] American women suck, because I know many who do not. (Plus I know several who I dearly wish would :)) It's entirely probable that aspects of American culture and the system are responsible for this but that's not the same thing as saying that virtually everything about the culture and system sucks and is responsible, or that every problem between men and women someone can think of is somehow related to this which is the tack you've been taking. There we disagree.
I don't see that there's been much disagreement on these particular things since this topic was begun back well before you popped in. So I rather think identifying the problem in really, really broad strokes is not something where a lot of time is needed. Using the kitchen sink approach of saying that anything you think of and throw up is somehow related to and indicative of the problem does not move the issue forward, and is in fact counterproductive to such a process. It's also rather difficult to get some sort of positive movement forward using technical terms such as "suck." And your insistence on agreement is essentially a way of not having a constructive discussion at all, as it simply leads to dismission by each side of the other, because it ends up being about whose ideas are right or wrong as opposed to where there is agreement and where there is disagreement.
It's not necessary to have agreement on absolutely every detailed aspect of a problem in order to examine it. In fact, in groups of people it's highly likely that there will be disagreement on specific degrees of any problem, and it's unlikely that any solution will absolutely fit every person's desires completely. So while consensus is needed on the overall problem, and general agreement on the major aspects of the problem, agreement is not needed on every specific piece in order to go forward. In fact, and I say this as an organizational consultant who has dealt with the issue of defining problems within groups of people many, many times, the belief and/or insistence that absolute agreement is needed is tantamount to deciding that nothing will happen and change is truly not desired.
If we're talking about problem-solving, one useful next step of the the process can be to define clearly where there is consensus and where there is disagreement. That is a way of establishing priority of desired changes.
This is generally done by trying to establish the specifics of the problem. In this case that would be to examine how American women "suck" uniquely, as opposed to the same way all women throughout history have "sucked" from a male perspective, and as opposed to the specific non-sucky aspects of some of their international counterparts. A lot of discusson on this has taken place here already, and part of the problem is that there's no delineation between how American women as a whole might suck, how a specific woman might suck, how women in general suck, etc., let alone any attempt to reach consensus or vague agreement on where a problem happens to be. So generally, discussion here is just guys being about as focused as the word "suck."
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Lenin -
As a native Russian man with ten years experience in the American culture, you are in a unique position to focus on the limited topic of American women in relation to the "better" women in a foreign culture.
Specifically, what do you observe in the American system and culture that is lacking or existing that makes women from your native country of Russia better to deal with in the personal relations area? In this question, I am asking you to focus on specifics that you have learned of in your experience.
Examples and stories are helpful to make a point sometimes (and I have enjoyed several of yours), but specific statements regarding observations on our cultures relating to the personal relations of men and women would be most appreciated.
Put another way, and addressing many of the concerns of other posters, what is the problem specifically with American women and what would have to be changed to make them better?
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Hi Guys,
I am back from Brazil and I had a blast and got some ass!! The hardest part about my vacation was leaving Rio and my non-pro girlfriend in Rio. The women there are as warm and friendly as the weather. It was 95 to 100 degrees but rained hard for 20 minutes at a time. In fact, I didn't really get to go to many termas because I met a non-pro the at a Samba party after the parade days. I did get a chance to go to 4X4 before going to the Sambadrome. I also tried Solarium and Villa Mimosa. I will post my experiences with those places in the Rio de Janeiro section.
Other than that, I spent most of my time with my lovely non-pro girlfriend.
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by joe_zop
[i]Lenin, I agree that, on the whole, American women are far bigger pains than their counterparts in other countries. I don't agree with a blanket statement that [i]all[/i] American women suck, because I know many who do not.
[/i][/QUOTE]
joe_zop, it was my first attempt to find consensus.
If you want to make it more generic, I don’t mind.
I am bad in English please feel free to correct me:
Average American woman one of the worst in personal interactions with man
In comparison with average woman from most of the others countries
Some parts of American System and American Culture responsible for this situation.
[QUOTE]
[i]So while consensus is needed on the overall problem, and general agreement on the major aspects of the problem, agreement is not needed on every specific piece in order to go forward.
[/i][/QUOTE]
I agree with that. We need general agreement on the major aspects of the problem.
If somebody have more or less generic statements he can go ahead and we can
discuss it.
[QUOTE]
[i]
If we're talking about problem-solving, one useful next step of the process can be to define clearly where there is consensus and where there is disagreement. That is a way of establishing priority of desired changes.
[/i][/QUOTE]
Good idea.
[QUOTE]
So I rather think identifying the problem in really, really broad strokes is not something where a lot of time is needed.
[/i][/QUOTE]
Well, this could be more difficult than it seems. Often the simple problem
Could lead to more difficult hidden problems.
For Example we practically did not touch the painful topic of relation
Among the men in North America, which at first glance, have nothing
To do with American women but in fact it is.
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Hey Darkseid,
Welcome back! Sounds like you had a truly great time. You also ducked some really bad weather up here.
Am contemplating a trip to Rio myself. What can you tell me about the language barrier there? Could one get by with a few key phrases and nonverbal hand cues? Also, did you notice any crime problems or related hassles down there? I "read" that the president of Brazil called out the military to protect Mardi Gras.
One last thing. How did you get money down there? Did you use ATM machines, currency exchanges, etc.?
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[i]we practically did not touch the painful topic of relation
Among the men in North America, which at first glance, have nothing To do with American women but in fact it is[/i]
Well, this seems as though you want to tackle the greater issue of interpersonal issues in general on the continent, which may be a valid and appropriate topic but is also such a huge issue that an entire board could be dedicated to it! The same thing could be said about the system and culture. I don't necessarily disagree with the idea that there may be overall poor interpersonal communication in North America, but one of the challenges in looking at something like this is not to spin too far off-topic, even if the topics may be related to some degree. I can easily make a list of a dozen semi-related issues which might be contributing factors, a lot of which have been brought up here in the past, but if we're going to discuss absolutely everything we may well end up discussing nothing.
[i]Average American woman one of the worst in personal interactions with man
In comparison with average woman from most of the others countries
Some parts of American System and American Culture responsible for this situation.[/i]
Most people in this section would agree with this statement. I would extend it further to very specifically say that the problem, from the perspective of most guys here, is specifically how those poor personal interactions manifest themselves in American women's attitudes toward sex, since that is the aspect that relates to the mission of this board, and in their general demeanor toward men as a gender.
I think it would be useful to further quantify some of these complaints, since we're making a generalized statement about American women in comparison to non-American women. Lenin, I agree with Jak that you, as someone whose cultural background and experience is different, are well positioned to make comments on the difference between American women and, say, Russian women. How would you compare and contrast the differences about attitude, behavior, and demeanor between the two? What are the strengths and what are the weaknesses?
I encourage other folks to do the same regarding women of other countries with whom they've had relationships, but how about, if you're going to make a comparison, also discussing what might be problematic about non-American women? I suggest this so it doesn't just become another complete trash American women orgy (which we've had lots of, and will no doubt have again) as opposed to actual discussion of the differences. It would also help us be clear about where this is a problem with American women specifically and where this is a general man/woman issue.