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Lookr, actually average AM don’t behave very different in other countries too.
They are much less confident than men from others countries.
I notice they have problem pick up girls in public places.
They mostly go to tourist places where prices already high.
In Cuba AM is favorite among Cuban prostitutes.
They know they cannot full so easily Russian or Italian men, for example.
It seems to me, the average AM have lowest self-esteem in the world.
HD, I am not argue with you, some exceptions exist of course.
Actually it is interesting to know how you managed to survive in such climate.
Some guys here in this forum suggested learning how to be even nicer to AW in order to improve situation. This is seems such absurd to me. It is mean to humiliate ourselves and destroy our own self-esteem even more!
I think we should do quite opposite. We should lower self-esteem of AW.
We should not miss the any opportunities to compare them with girls from others countries and tell them that average AW nothing but handicapped and garbage.
This is going to be good lessons for them.
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Lenin -
About a month or so ago, we had a discussion moving with others on topics such as these regarding an American woman in comparison to an "average" non-North American woman (in a general sense, of course):
1) American women are more money-hungry or focused on materials (more mercenary)
2) Generally more fat and less feminine
3) More aggressive
4) Not as loyal
5) Boring, but expect entertainment from men
6) Suspicious of men in general - of men's intentions
7) Unappreciative (demanding, whining, manipulative and snobby)
8) Not that interested in sex - or use it mainly for manipulation
What would be some other common impressions to add to the list? Or, what are some of your current thoughts on the above issues?
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Lenin-
Also, one of the things you talked about a lot was the difference in how men relate and bond with each other in Russia. They have much more of an alliance and openess in sharing their feelings and thoughts with each other than American men. They give each other much more emotional support and advice - almost like the bond that women seem to have in their expressiveness with each other. This allows Russian men to have more power in their interactions with women.
There is also a perspective of American men in Russia (I presume from both sexes) that American men are "fags", or something to this effect. It's for the essentially same reason Cuban women view American men as easy marks. To what extent is this view of American men in Russia? Is it common? Does the average Russian know the slang term for an American man - that basically means he's a wimp?
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Jak, I cannot say about view of American men in Russia too much
I know that Russian women who live here like American men
because they think AM can be easily manipulated.
I want to add that problems 2) 3) 4) 5) 7) from the list
could happened in any country when women have low level interest to the men.
Just in reality, average women interest to men in other countries is relatively high and here in US very low as result of unbalance.
If something increase level of interest of AW to AM
all this problem would disappeared.
Problems 1) 6) and 8) is more looks like typically American problem.
I think they exist because something wrong with American culture.
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There have been a few articles floating around in the major dailies & weeklies that discuss the trend towards American women being the major money-earners (the phrase kicked around is "Alpha-earner") while the men become house husbands.
I know a couple of guys caught in this trend, and their lives are a miserable hell. In fact, one of the guy's wives keeps threatening to divorce him because [insert inane reason here]. The other wife berates her husband constantly, telling him he's a no-good money-grubbing loser who can't keep a job (in his last job, which he kept for somewhere in the neighborhood of a decade, he rose to Senior VP).
Seems American women are only too eager to abuse the power of "alpha-earner." No guy I know acts that way to his wife (certainly not the two aforementioned guys). The only advice I've been giving them is for them to get jobs as soon as possible to get rid of the tension, and it's my secret hope that they get the hell out of those crappy relationships.
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lookr,
I know one Brazilian man in Brazil who is not working
but his second wife is making a lot of money.
He is happy and most important he is in control of his wife.
He also lived quite happily with his first wife who
made much more money than him and they had five children
He never paid alimony to his first wife or to children.
Seems US is really rotten place for the men.
Guys, does anybody have positive stories about men in US?
Otherwise I am going to run away from North America soon.
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Oh, please, I know tons of guys who are very happy with American women, from guys who've been happily married for 40 years to those who've been together only a couple of years. And those relationships range from "he's in charge" to "she's in charge" to "nobody's in charge." I could easily fill this board with stories about this, same as we can all have done with stories of breakups and being screwed over.
Given that the census says that between 45-50 of the total adult population is currently married to their first spouse (with variations by sex and race) and that the rate of the population those still on their first marriage tends to be over 50% once you look at those over 30, that means that a fair number of people are staying together. Even if you presume that half of those are unhappy marriages -- probably a high estimate, given that at least one study has shown that people with pro-divorce attitudes are more likely to be unhappy in their marriage, and that others have indicated the personal happiness of both men and women is higher when they're married -- then there are still a large number of people who consider themselves happily married.
Understanding that there's still a depressing failure rate, let's simply not paint with [i]too[/i] ridiculously broad a brush here. Here's a little bit of context by country -- divorces as percent of all marriages: Russia 65%, Sweden 64%, Finland 56%, Britain 53%, U.S. 49%, Canada 45%, France 43%, Germany 41%. (Source: Divorce Center, 2000 statistics.) And when you consider places like Brazil, you've also got to consider how heavily traditionally Catholic the region is, and the Church's strictures against divorce.
So it's not simply all about the U.S. and our crappy system, or our crappy women.
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joe:
Good points. But I figure that if my odds of staying married are worse than my odds of winning big in a casino, then those are odds I simply won't play.
Now hobbying ... that's another story completely. :)
-- lookr
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Fair enough, though since the odds of big casino wins are relatively low that's a pretty radical take on things, perhaps well grounded philosophically, but still kind of extreme. Me, I'm happy enough if the house edge on the game is reasonable, and it seems a game of skill rather than completely one of chance. I don't need to win everything, just not lose big. :)
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I must agree with Joe_Zap in that there are some success stories in the American model of marriage. It would be unrealistic to say that all American relationships are bad and destructive. I think that what has happened here in America though is that our culture has domesticated the human male to the point that the women are the assholes now, if you understand what I'm trying to say. Also a lot of the American women I meet who are bad to men are bad to women too. Overall they are just bad people. Lately I've had more American women complain about American women than men have. I'm one that feels this country is only good for material and educational pursuits. I never have fun here anymore because I've tasted the "forbidden fruit." When I take a girl out in the U.S. and the meal must average $50 a plate to be acceptable and then I go to a country where for $50 (or less) women are licking out my asshole it's obvious that my outlook on America is going to be completely different. Sometimes I observe things in this country that I just laugh at now. Like I'm in on the joke on the American men because I've tasted this "fruit" and I know what the truth is.
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Still, phil, with just about one in two American marriages ending in divorce, I'm unconvinced to run out & find a bride, especially in this country.
And I completely agree with you that American women have evolved into assholes. Just last night I went out to have some drinks with some buddies, and the women there (typical silicone-brained Silicon Valley types) simply could not stop talking about how much they could kick men's asses, from the boardroom to the bedroom.
The irony of this is that (a) these women were at least ten years older than me, and (b) they were trying to look ten years younger than me.
I laughed, too. :D
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I feel there is a new division of labor in the sphere of male-female human relations here in the US.
If you want “legitimate” children get a wife.
If you want sex get a prostitute.
If you want affection get a dog.
These services used to be rendered by the same person, the wife. For various reasons these tasks have become specialized to different providers. This may or may not be a lamentable state of affairs – my guess is nobody here minds too much.
There may be anecdotal evidence that some AW fulfill all roles – however recent commentary (cited below) suggests that US marriages are increasingly becoming sexless, usually driven by the woman. Marriage is now primarily about the rearing of children.
“For many couples child-rearing has become not merely one aspect of marriage but its entire purpose and function. Spouses regard each other not as principally lovers and companions but as sharers of the great, unending burden of taking care of the children. “
The principle cause of this appears to be feminism:
“Given the curious alchemy of feminism, which transforms absolutely anything women choose to do into a crucial element of liberation doctrine, confessing that one has given up sex has become a very right-on and empowering act. “
As someone from the island of Lesbians has said: Lesbians have sex 4 times a month, married heterosexuals 2 or 3 times a weeks, and homo’s 4 times a day. The point being that there is a yin and yang – woman’s tendency is to want less sex, men’s to have tons more and the union of the two strikes something of a balance. Or it used to at any rate.
The balance struck was the quid pro quo of sex provided by the woman, for food and shelter provided by the man – though the actual compromise was not this crude, since the institution of marriage dignified it. The old balance no longer works as women can support themselves.
“Under these conditions, pity the poor married man hoping to get a bit of comfort from the wife at day's end. He must somehow seduce a woman who is economically independent of him, bone tired, philosophically disinclined to have sex unless she is jolly well in the mood, numbingly familiar with his every sexual maneuver, and still doing a slow burn over his failure to wipe down the countertops and fold the dish towel after cooking the kids' dinner. “
I guess this post doesn’t have a whole helluva a point but I aver that most any man contemplating marriage in the US faces the above mentioned providers for children, sex and affection, he is unlikely to get all three from an American Woman. Getting married isn't necessarily going to get an AM a whole lot of sex - which is fine if you don't go into it with that aim - which argues for the specialization.
For the 'poor married man' hoping for a bit of comfort I would recommend a long haired Collie.
Quotes from the Atlantic Monthly January 2003 article “The Wifely Duty” written by a relatively decent woman.
http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2003/01/flanagan.htm
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The evolution of the American woman is like a dominoe effect. In America, women are driven by greed because of commercials. Commercials say you must buy this and that to be "in" or to "fit in". They also manipulate minds with humiliation like making fun of stupid minor shit like blackheads. In fact in American television they air 4 to 5 commercials on a shorter break and the break in the middle of the show airs 8 commercials. In Brazil, they air 2 to 3 on a short break and 4 on a longer break. Europe airs 4 on a short break, 6 on a longer break. This society is totally consumption driven. This causes the American woman to want the $50 dinner, the pair of shoes or clothings every week, and the diamond rings. This greed also causes them to marry a husband just to use him to buy her everything even if she goes to work and make more for her. I have seen a wife making more money than a husband here and she still makes him save up his money just to buy her a gift on their "3 month anniversary". (Hello, anniversary is ONCE PER YEAR, not every 3 months). This was probably an excuse to make him buy her something she saw in a commercial.
Greed takes the focus off the sex in the marriage. Greed is the cause of women wanting ridiculous divorce settlements. It is the cause of passionless marriages as women marry just to divorce the husband to take half his wealth. She also gives up the relationship with one she is attracted to to go after the wealthy guy she doesn't like physically at all. Greed is the main premise of feminism. It causes their thirst for power and money. Also it is the reason why marriage has gone to the purpose of child rearing instead of completing the husband. Hey, the greedy woman needs an heir to her throne, right? The heir becomes the focus and she pays less attention to the husband.
About the divorce rate statistic argument, the reason the US has lower rate than Europe is because we are much less liberated. Men are afraid to divorce because of the fact that they lose everything in the process so they are stuck with their overweight wives. Europe is more liberated and the husband loses much less. Also the US is based on more Puritanical standards so the concept of "shame" comes to play. Europe knows much less "shame" so they think nothing of divorces. Divorces are lower in Brazil even though they also don't know "shame" perhaps because there are much happier marriages there and their wives fullfills the needs of the husbands. Rather than look at the statistics posted which could be flawed, I look at intentions. If American men are asked how many WANT to get a divorce rather than how many actually do divorce that are willing to lose half their stuff, the stats would probably be much higher in America than in Europe and South America combined.
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gee -- greed, shame, and intentions. all so easy to posit and so hard to prove. so "intentions" are more important than behavior, huh? your argument falls into the "if you don't like a fact, ignore it" approach -- using fuzzy unquantifiable terms. if you want to argue "intentions" you might look at the percentage of both men and women who say they "want" to be married -- it's very high, and it's actually higher for men than women in many age groups. there are also [i]numerous[/i] studies that say that men are generally happier being married than women, have less marital frustration and dissatisfaction, and are [i]less[/i] likely to consider divorce. given that lots of sources claim more than three-quarters of both divorced men and women remarry, usually within three years after divorce, i find your "intentions" argument rather hollow.
i must say, darkseid, that i find your new take on divorce statistics highly disingenuous, considering that you've argued in the past that the us having the highest divorce rates is proof of the feminist and puritanical anti-sex strains running through society. now, since the real statistics don't support your contention, you've completely flipped, and we're too repressed and full of shame to divorce. c'mon! and divorces are lower throughout south america because it's [i]heavily[/i] and conservatively roman catholic -- 70% in brazil, 90% in argentina and chile, 95% in bolivia and columbia, etc. -- and the catholic church doesn't recognize divorce. (though more american catholics get divorced than elsewhere, since the us strain of catholicism is more liberal.)
look, i also prefer a $50 meal over a $20 meal because it's often a more unique and memorable meal in a better atmosphere. i prefer a $20 bottle of wine over a $5 bottle of wine because it's generally better wine. that hardly makes me greedy -- that makes me someone who understands the difference between mcdonalds and real food. that $50 spent on a meal with her is less about the money and more about romance and attention, and not understanding that equation explains both why she won't give it up and why things don't work in the relationship.
i happen to agree that there is greed in divorce settlements, but i disagree that it's simply about women wanting materials -- in many, many cases, it's about revenge for a marriage gone bad, it's about fear of a future where a primary wage-earner is gone (women do tend to be worse off financially than men in the years immediately following a divorce, primarily because men still tend to make more money) and it might also be about getting the focus of the man who's been seen not to be paying attention. two-thirds of divorces are initiated by women, who do so because they are unhappy with the state of the marriage, and let's face it -- they can therefore go into the divorce proceedings feeling aggrieved, which means they can be out for revenge and satisfaction. that said, let's also keep in mind that half of men and women describe their relationships with their ex-spouse as friendly or cooperative, so everyone's not walking around feeling abused by the process.
the whole greed thing doesn't completely make sense to me here -- it's simply less about that and more about attention. face it, a woman who's married generally has far more access to and control of her husband's income than an unmarried woman does the income of some man she's dating. women generally file for divorce because they feel neglected or emotionally abandoned, and this is why men end up being so baffled in the process, since someone leaving because of abuse or infidelity is easier to understand. but the complaint of many married women is that they are mostly ignored unless their husbands want food or sex. they want a soul mate, not a roomate, and that takes ongoing work and attention. men these days, on the other hand, are trying to juggle being a wage-earner -- which used to be enough -- with being a "partner" where you don't simply make all the decisions and lay down the law, and being a partner is a lot more work, especially for guys, who aren't in the habit of discussing everything until the paint peels off the walls, as women do.
btw, angus, nice post, and one i think contains a lot of truth. i'd merely point out that whether or not men are satisfied with their sex lives when married to aw, stats show that they still get sex more often than their unmarried counterparts.
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Don't like marriage? Don't get married. Don't believe in divorce? Don't get divorced. Think homosexuality is wrong? Don't be one. Don't like American women? [b]Move![/b]
Or, you could bit@h about it.