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Best what I found in this forum is post by Alex. In spite what I am not agree with some parts his article. Nobody come even close to it.
Alex really trying to look very deep
It worth to repeat it again
WHAT MARRIAGE REALLY IS
1. Marriage is a legal form of prostitution.
2. How women got their power
3. Sex is Business.
4. What Can Be Done ?
5. Woman's Arguments
6. What's About Child Support ?
7. Deep to the roots
1. Marriage is a legal form of prostitution.
If we look into Marriage Law books we'll find something like "during the marriage it is normally the husband obligations to provide for his wife and children" ( "The Law And You" McGrow-Hill Company Of Canada Limited, 1970 ) or " each spouse is liable to the support of the other" ( Ontario Family Law Act ). This came to us from 19th century, when such law was justified, because women were not economically independent. Women then were mostly housekeepers, while their husbands earned the money. There were no such professions as woman-doctor, woman-lawyer, real estate agent, business consultant, secretary, teacher - whatever else. Not now. Now women have reached economic equality, they have equal opportunities to earn money, as men. So why is there law declaring financial responsibilities based on sexual relationship ? We don't have a law, claiming that "two people, that play tennis together are liable to support each other". But if they live together and have sex together, why they are ?
And then, when we say "each spouse is liable to the support of the other" let's not blind ourselves - it's virtually never happens that a woman support her husband. It's always men pay for women, not other way around. Women never want to marry a man that earn less, then they do ! They never want to marry an unemployed guy with unclear financial future. The whole system is a great mechanism to transfer money from men's bank accounts to women's bank accounts - nothing else.
The difference between marriage and prostitution is the same as between wholesale and retail trading. But while prostitution is considered to be a negative thing, and there is no law, supporting prostitution, why do we have Marriage Law ?
That's because we live in time of 'common level matriarchy'. Woman in 20th century have won power over man, and the law is made for their ultimate convenience, like in Middle Ages law helped barons to keep their privileges, but didn't care about peasants. But in a society of justice such law must not exist. It contradicts, for example, Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which states :
"Every individual is EQUAL before and under the law and has the RIGHT to the EQUAL PROTECTION and EQUAL BENEFIT of the law WITHOUT DISCRIMINATION and, in particular, without discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin, color, religion, SEX, age or mental or physical disability".
But Marriage Law DOES CREATE DISCRIMINATIVE PRACTICE ! It provides NOT EQUAL PROTECTION and BENEFITS with DISCRIMINATION of men, based on SEX. Such law must not be tolerated in our time and we should struggle for its cancellation.
2. How women got their power
Historically for many thousands of years men had advantage on women, based on very simple factor - bigger physical strength. Physical strength played crucial role at that time, and women were discriminated everywhere - in politics, economy, family. But now this advantage has disappeared, physical power doesn't give you much on today's job market. And also, unlike 200 years ago, you cannot abuse a woman physically, which is, certainly, good. But now, in this developed society it is women, who got infare advantage over man, based on another simple factor - biological demands for sex from men and women are not equal! There are simply less sexual willing women, then men. The difference is, may be, not so great - 15 or 20% . But lets imagine what would happen if there is 15% shortage of apartments to compare to all people, who want to rent. Nobody want to sleep on the street. So the price for an apartment will go up to possible maximum. That's what is called 'speculative, infare profits'.
That's exactly what happens now on 'sexual market'. I wouldn't discuss now biological causes of this inequality, what is important is the result. And the result is quite clear - the simplest proof is such thing as a price for a prostitute. It's something from 100 to 200 $ for 1/2 - 1 hour of sex. Many men must work hard from 1 to 3 days to earn this money. Why do they agree to pay this ? The answer is - market... And how much does it cost for a woman who want sex with man ? - Zero. The sexual price for a man in our society - zero.
This situation creates inequality between men and women, similar to relationship between business owner and his employee at a time of 20% unemployment. The owner can fire the worker, and there is a long line of others, who want to replace him. The worker also have his right to quit, but he will have a lot of trouble to find another job. And in sexual relationships we have exactly the same picture - women have their choice, men stay in the line. As a result women turned men into their servants. This situation humiliate men and corrupt women. And of course, women learned very well how to use it, to convert it into money. And to help them better - there is a special social institution for their service, supported by law - named Marriage.
3. Sex is Business.
Yes, we live in an epoch of matriarchy. It doesn't matter that women statistically earn less, then men, it's still matriarchy - women earn less because they don't need to earn money as desperate, as men. They don't need to pay money for sex, they receive it for sex. And it doesn't matter that there are less women, then men among presidents, premiers and CEO, - women simply don't need so much trouble to get what they want.
Sexual inequality is the cause of most of the troubles in our society. It creates the same barriers between men and women, as between rich and poor. It destroys normal relationship between a man and a woman, destroys normal sexual relationship, converts love into business and kills it. There are millions men suffering from solitude, from lack of normal sexual life, and nobody care how to help them.
This is the biggest problem in so called developed countries, more serious then even poverty and crime, because there are more people suffering from it, then from anything else. Crime, especially sex crime, depression, suicides probably by 80% directly and indirectly are results of this unfortunate conditions. In our time, when nobody dies from hunger, this - not anything else - is a MAIN SOCIAL PROBLEM, because NORMAL SEXUAL LIFE IS NOT LESS IMPORTANT, THEN NORMAL FOOD. And all democratic governments must care about this. But they don't. They care only about well being of one part of the population - women.
Yes, instead of helping weak part of contemporary society - men, the law helps those who have already advantage by their birth - women. We can not easily change demographic situation, but we can at least not to create laws, that make the situation worse ! How many millions men were caught in this trap - marriage ? How many millions dollars, earned by hard work were taken from them ? Men are not slaves, they are people. The need love, sex and understanding, but instead they get marriage law with all its consequences. How can our society treat them this way ?
If you were so unhappy to be robbed on the street, the robber will take your cash and probably will use your credit card, before you could report the robbery, but your total damage will be less then 1000$. If your marry a woman, she may born you a child, then divorce you, take your child and sue out your money, typically 200,000 or more. A woman, that want to get married is 200 more dangerous, then a street robber.
4. What Can Be Done ?
I don't believe it will be easy to change status quo by some kind of democratic procedure. No political party will take such position, because 50% of voters - women, and they will never vote for this party. And there are also some men - family law lawyers, for example, that make their fortunes on this shit, so they have already 51%. They have won. And the fact that suffering minority is nearly all the male population - doesn't bother them, no more that it bother prostitutes about their business.
We cannot easily destroy this despicable system, but what we can do is to start nationwide campaign against it. The first important thing is information - every men must know WHAT MARRIAGE REALLY IS. So if we can't change the law, we can change the public opinion. Every boy of 10 years old must know what he is going to meet, when he grow. So when his girlfriend will say "I want to get married", his proper answer will be : "Sorry, my love, I can't do it, until they will cancel present Marriage Law, because it does not defend me against financial abuse." Every boy, every man must know the real meaning of marriage, with its statistics and costs, this is no less important then information about danger of sexual transmitted diseases or unwanted pregnancy.
I ENCOURAGE EVERYONE, WHO CARE, TO DISTRIBUTE THIS DOCUMENT OVER INTERNET, TO SEND IT TO YOUR FRIENDS. Many people will agree with it and this will be the first step to change current situation. I would like to see movement "Men Against Marriage", that would struggle for men rights against oppression, like women struggled ( and won ) for their rights 100 years ago. The mere word "marriage" should be labeled as shameful, the same as prostitution, i.e. getting money for sex.
5. Woman's Arguments
Women say : "Yes, in marriage we receive money from our husbands, but this is compensation for our homework, which we do more, then men. And also we sacrifice our career, because we must stay at home and raise children. So men must pay for this." But let's ask a question : Why men don't sacrifice their career and stay at home to raise children ? And who makes women to do more homework ? Is it her husband, that makes his wife to work at home ? Does he shout on her : "Go to the kitchen immediately, make me dinner !" ? No. You can't force North American woman to do anything she doesn't want to do herself. She would rather divorce you, take your money and find her another husband, but she will never do what she doesn't like.
So if women statistically spend more time on homework, then men, that's because they need it more, then men. They like it more, then men, or, maybe, men dislike it more, the women. But why should men pay for it ? They don't hire their wives for cleaning or cooking. And when a woman doesn't work and stay at home to raise children - it's her own choice. Every husband would like to have second salary in the family rather then housewife, the family can hire a babysitter, but nobody can force a woman to quit her work. Today women do it only because they know that THEY HAVE LEGAL SUPPORT FROM LAW, that will help them to sue out men money. That must not be. Staying at home instead of work is women own choice and in case of divorce it must be their own responsibility.
6. What's About Child Support ?
Let's first ask a question - why courts in more then 90% of divorces give a child to his mother, and not to his father ? That's because there is a convention in our society : child is more close to his mother, then to his father. This is biologically true. But if so, if the child belongs to his mother more, then to his father, why would father and mother pay equally ? Father can not see his child much after divorce, their relationship are not as close, as when they live together. Why must he pay same amount of money, or more, then mother, who lives with her child ?
What if they, while married, buy a car together, then they separate, court gives the car to the husband, but also rules, that for 20 years both husband and wife must pay all car expenses equally - gas, repair, insurance... For compensation the wife have her right to come once a week to her former husband home and to drive this car for 2 hours, at a time when it is convenient for the husband. Absurd ? Sure. You got the car - you pay for it. The other side doesn't have this car any more - it should not pay.
I can imagine the women's howl when they read this. How dare I say this ?! The child's interests are sacred ! Do you know how difficult it is to be a single mother, to raise children ? Cool down. It's not only child's interests are sacred, interests of all people are sacred. It's difficult to be a single mother, sure, but it is also difficult to be a single man. A man after divorce looses his family, and his children, a woman keep her children with her. What is more difficult ? - who know... Would you like, dear ladies, to leave your children with their fathers, and also to pay child support for 20 - 25 years ? There are some single fathers around, but I've never heard about a woman, paying child support...
In a free, democratic society, with EQUAL RIGHTS FOR MEN AND WOMEN child support can be voluntary only. It doesn't mean that there will be not child support at all. There are many fathers, that love their kids and have connections with them even after divorce, so they will support their children without any enforcement from law. There are happy families, that wouldn't divorce at all, but such families doesn't need Family Law ! But we know other examples. It's not a big secret : there are many women who choose not to work, but to born children and use them as a guaranteed source of income on the expense of their unfortunate husbands. That's who need Family Law. That's who benefit from it. Do we need their children ? How can we create unequal, discriminating laws, that help such women to rob men ?
7. Deep to the roots
So how this odious laws can still exist? One answer is voting majority of women plus some man, that also gain from it. But that is only part of the answer. The fact is, that would marriage be forfeited, women simply will stop to bore children.
This is true - raising children costs a lot of money and women want guarantees, so governments didn't find anything else then to put this burden to men, even in cases of clear fraud.
To make things worth, they introduced so called Family Law Act, where among other things it is declared, that a man have full obligation for a child, born from him even if he has not been married with the child's mother and never wanted children with her at all ! That makes man a hostage of every woman, he slept with. She always can cheat him and get pregnant, if she wants, as for the man - the only way to him to stay out of trouble for sure, is to live without sex ... Nice solution, ye ? Note, that all decisions - to have or not to have a child, are up to the woman only. According to this law the man is responsible for something, about what he has absolutely no power. Nobody ask him, but he must pay, because he wanted sex. In what crazy country do we live ?
The next step should be to state something like : "Every man, who slept with a woman, must give her full access to his bank account and credit cards". Why not ? You don't want this ? - don't sleep with women.
Decline of population sure will be a problem, it will lead to economic depression first, then values of businesses and real estate will go down... But isn't the current price too high ? Should we turn all male population into slaves in desperate attempts to raise birthrate ?
Governments should look for other solutions, but not for what is going on now. And there are other solutions, first of them - immigration. It can not only solve the population problem, it can solve problem of disproportion of sexual demand and supply for men and women, by simply inviting more women, then men, until situation is balanced. Also prostitution can be eliminated... But women don't want this solution. They like it the way it is. I think now it's time for men to fight for their rights, for sexual equality.
Let's declare this - SEXUAL LIFE IS OUR PRIVATE LIFE, AND THERE MUST NOT BE LAW, THAT IN ANY WAY CONNECT OUR PRIVATE LIFE WITH MONEY. No lawyer must be able to put his nose into my bank account in connection with my sexual life. Any law, that do not comply with this requirements must be cancelled.
Let's delete Family Law Act. There will be less divorces in this world.
Let's delete all Family Law completely. There will be less lawyers, less children, but more love and happiness in our life.
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to dark and sin....sorry, but it's so hard to stop myself from ripping on you. It's just that you make such an inviting target. However, I will try to stop myself in the future.
On to serious stuff: The advice to just move on and go about your life is the most sane advice possible. If a particular person has a problem you will never change him/her. You almost sound like these women who marry asshole with the intention of changing them. You can only worry about yourself. Many guys still don't get it--if you have problems with women, then maybe its time to look inside and make some changes. You can't change the women (at least not in your lifetime) so make adjustments. You don't have to give up yourself in the process, but I think that many of the same people who have problems with American women are people who also have some personality or emotional problems. Just look at the bitterness in some of the posts. Look at the previous post by "bootylover" and tell me what woman in her right mind would want to venture into his dark psyche? Nobody wants to be with a person who is so defensive and negative. Maybe you do have a right to be bitter (I haven't lived your life), but what does that same bitterness accomplish? It makes you more appealing to other guys like you, but it does nothing to help you with women.
American women are the same as American men...they want to somehow "win" in a relationship. They want to attain something from being with their partner...to get ahead. Men want to get laid, have some "arm candy", etc. I won't even pretend to know what women want but it's obvious that what they want and what we want often clash. So, what's the solution? It's easy--stay positive and keep looking for "The One". Assholes have a tendency of attracting other assholes. Negativity only breeds more negativity. Instead of blaming the world, do something constructive.
I've had good relationships with American women and bad ones. I find American women to be more aggressive about what they want and I can see where some men might find that intimidating (especially if you come from a third world country). I live in Mexico right now (before you try to make an issue of that: I moved to Mexico for business reasons and not because of the women) and I notice that the women are much more passive. I've had three semi-serious relationships since I've been here and I've ended two of the three because they were too passive, almost spineless. When I want a girlfriend (or more) I want an equal. Someone who will be supportive, but be strong enough to stand up to me when I act like an ass. The positive about a good American woman is that she will keep you on your toes and eventually you will become a better person.
Of course there are more bad American women than good ones, but there are also more bad American men than good ones. And maybe the good American women are staying away from the good American men because they've decided that ALL American men suck...
The fact that you have more luck in foreign countries is due to a combination of : 1) The women possibly seeing a meal ticket (of course that depends on the country and/or area that you visit) and 2) You start with a clean slate in another place. Nobody knows you and you can start fresh. The pressure is off and you feel untainted by previous problems. If you live in the same foreign place, you'll develop the same problems that you have in the USA because the problem is more than likely within you and you can't run from yourself.
I'm not expecting anyone to agree with me, but its so frustrating to see the same posts over and over again. Before this weekend, I hadn't looked in this section for months and pretty soon I'll be gone again so you can go on and on and on about how America women suck...when all you ever really wanted was to be loved by one. It's like in school when you get a crush, but the girl doesn't like you then you start to insult her and start to act like you never liked her in the first place.
So, go ahead and rip into me as usual, but deep down inside you have to know that I'm right. Make comments about strap-ons (it's funny how for someone sooooooo "not" gay, there's so much phallic imagery in your and sin's posts). Infer that I'm "whipped", but know that I'm truly happy with myself and my ability to connect with other people.
So, now I'll just sit back and see how many times you mis-interpret what I had to say. Good Bye and I wish you good luck....
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Miller, this response is more constructive and civil than your last one. Your last post was just insults and troublemaking and I had to add the insults in my last post just to get even with you. Anyway, at least you've backed up WHY you prefer American women and the advantages they may have over foreign women in this post and I appreciate it. I do find American women too aggressive and pushy though but maybe that's what some guys like which others find annoying. I like European and Brazilian women because they are not too pushy and not too passive. I haven't thought much about my trips to Thailand or the other Asian countries because yes, I do find them TOO passive. I rant and rave about Europe and South America because they are just right for me and that is my taste.
Bootylover, I love your input as an outsider looking into the American woman situation because it gives a different perspective on them. Keep posting.
Miller, I hope next time we speak again it will be as civil as this post instead of the last one.
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Good post, Miller -- first decent thing here in quite some time. I've pretty well stopped posting or even reading here because I tend to agree with you that this section has just become an echo chamber, guys ripping again and again without really looking at root causes or thinking about changes. "American man good, American woman bad" isn't much of a recipe for sustainable nonrepetitive conversation.
Your comments on looking inward are excellent, and I'd also suggest that guys take a solid look at the choices they make in women, which is the same advice I've given American women who've had repeated bad relationships. For many of them, the problem is that they basically date the same guy over and over (be it the "bad boy" type, the control freak, the workaholic, whatever) in different bodies and have the same things happen and end up with either a broken relationship or trapped in one that's a mess. The same thing is often true for guys I know -- they choose the same type of woman who shredded their heart and bank account the last time. Taking a good look at yourself and understanding the difference between what you want and what you need can sometimes help.
I think your take on the differences in foreign women is a good one, but I'd add a couple of things to the list. One is the fact that, as an American, you are the one who is exotic in another place -- at home you're one of the horde, in another country you're the one who's different. That happens to work in your favor, by and large, unless you're a complete jerk or unless you're trying to romance high up on the social chain. I'd also caution that the passivity you describe in foreign women isn't always the case -- it can be a cultural manifestation of deference as opposed to passivity (not, of course, that passivity isn't also often there -- people are people, and some are passive, and being in a longer-term relationship reveals that.) Darkseid mentioned Thailand, for example: in Thailand the cultural concept of greng jai says that if something you will say or do will upset someone, you're not to do it. That's very different than the western perspective of "putting it all out on the table" and can be seen as being either passive or untruthful when it's nothing at all like that. Many Thai women are far from passive (though, again there are certainly those who are) -- it's simply that their approach to asserting their desires and opinions can be misinterpreted by foreigners.
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Joe_zop, I do apologize for being repetitive on this post. I do have a problem FINDING a good woman here in America. They are extremely rare and there are a few guys that are lucky to find them like Miller or yourself. I can't argue that there are a handful of them out there. Perhaps you can fill us in on where to find them. I tried hooking up in clubs, at work, at the gym, in classes, and even the internet and I still keep finding the feminazis I keep talking about on this forum. I played the numbers game and hooked up with only 1 out of an average of 30 tries because of the racism here in America (yes, they admit they don't date Asian guys so that is why I forget them and move on to the next girl.) And the ladies I do hook up with are pushy and greedy.
For now, I decided to stick to foreign women because I don't know a better way to hook up. It's not that I seek out these troublemaking women in America (I even ask out women who are a little overweight and they still are the same way), but I just never had the luck of finding a good one. I ask out women of all backgrounds, rich, poor, slim, a little overweight, educated and non-educated. I don't in any way target a specific group of woman just to be shredded by them. I speak this in defense of all those who are as unfortunate as I am. I do agree with you about people who ONLY seek out the young and good looking because they are begging these women to exploit them for their money. But my standards aren't that high and I don't ask much of women. I allow women to be a little overweight but not extremely (I can't handle a woman more than 180 lbs in bed that is my fault in that category from my back injury). I do expect the women to be nice, compromising, and not greedy and that is what I find more in foreign women than the American women I met so far.
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Myself, if I could run into an American woman who didn't have some plan that ultimately revealed that she ain't worth it, I'd rejoice! No such luck so far, but fool that I am, I've never been able to blot out the 1% of optimism that appears to be indestructible. I gotta work on that.
The only time I've been to a Third World country was to visit my folks who were living on the military base. Never did any hunting there. I always did my hunting in Western Europe in countries that have thriving, vibrant economies, so the concept of flashing cash to impress a local honey doesn't cut it. Conversing with a local honey was never difficult, because I'd never see in their eyes the desire to "raise their shields" at a moment's notice. I never act differently ABROAD than I do here, because to do so takes WORK and you have to maintain that illusion at all times during one's waking hours. Plus, it feels phony and it would show.
Never said I was without flaw. Never IMPLIED that I was without flaw. Never WILL imply that I am without flaw. PERIOD.
Growing up and learning that I should treat American women with "respect" only to learn that they DON'T react favorably to the "gentlemanly" approach (I name it that for simplicity's sake) bought me a ton of disillusionment and years of banging my head against a wall. In the past several months, I'd changed tactics after receiving several revelations and am NOW getting UNWANTED attention. Perhaps it's because I think of them as replaceable at a moment's notice or that there is a "better product" out there that caused that to happen.
If ALL American women were bad, 60-75% of my friendships wouldn't exist. MANY American women are bad because of their duplicity, sending out false messaages and wasting a man's time (considered a SPORT by some American women) instead of having the guts to face the uncomfortable music and tell it like it is UP FRONT.
If I didn't have to jump as many hurdles as Edwin Moses, I'd cut them some more slack, but that's reality. Overseas, for ME at least, the issue is more black and white: I know UP front if I'm in or out WITHOUT the attempts to waste my time, money or resources. That simplicity is very alluring.
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Hey, believe me that you've got my sympathies, and I can understand the frustration! I think hooking up with the right person is incredibly tough, but fortunately you only usually have to do it once. I also think you're probably in the worst place period to connect -- the last place in the world I'd want to be looking is in New York, as I think there's a much higher concentration of pushy and self-absorbed women there -- it's something about the town, its pace, and the generally aggressive attitude there. (I spent probably a third of the year there throughout the 90s.) New York, as well as LA, also very much revolves a bit more around money and status, which makes that be a more pronounced issue there, and since it's more expensive than most places money is a constant pressure there. So I'd take that as a context -- it's just generally more difficult in NYC than in most places to date. I've tons of friends there who sing the same song, both male and female. The counter-argument is that there are millions of people there, so your odds go up, but personally I think it's more about common sensibilities than huge number of opportunities -- people have been hooking up in small towns for centuries.
As far as the racism thing goes, it's unfortunate, but the US in general is simply a lousy place in that regard, I think -- there's little question that race has always been and remains a major problem in this country. (Again, not to say it's not also the case elsewhere -- there are plenty of places where it's an issue.) I think in this country the ease of mixed-race dating completely depends on where you happen to be, and there are certain places and situation where it seems to be easier. There are tons of mixed couples in the large city near me, for example, but the little village where I live is terrible in terms of race.
But I do think Miller has a point regarding a vibe, and so my question to you, since you say you ask all kinds of women out, is what you're looking at/for, how you know when you might see it, and how you go about getting there. In my own case, to be honest, most of the women I've hooked up with successfully were not people I asked out cold -- I knew them for a while first in other circumstances (and a variety -- the specifics of the place didn't really matter.) So I got a sense of their attitudes, their personalities, etc., first, and only when I found someone with whom I thought I might be compatible did I go forward. There are plenty whom I've thankfully considered and then shied away from, as it was clear disaster was in the offing. And let me say that this is completely learned behavior, as when I was much younger my eyes and dick invariably pointed in the direction of someone who was primed to take me and my heart to pieces. And I happily (and then unhappily) let several do it before I learned to look more closely.
For what it's worth, I use the same approach when I'm out hunting for temporary companionship. I pay close attention to the vibe, and check out quickly if there's something I don't like in the process. But when you're looking for a serious relationship I think it's even more important to do your due diligence, as it's simply better not to be with someone than to be with the wrong person. If you're alone at least you've got possibilities -- if you're hooked up with the wrong one you're going to spend immense time, energy, and emotion trying to get back to the situation where you can look for someone else.
And Sin, for my money, it still pays to act like a gentleman. It's a great way to weed out those women who are likely to be problematic -- if a woman isn't capable of seeing basic respect and attention as precisely that instead of as some statement about patriarchy, then odds are you're not gonna want to spend time with her in any event, as she's the type who's going to put everything you do through a distortion lens. I understand what you're saying in terms of sending out the attitude that they need to try because you know there are other fish, but I'm not so sure that's not likely to just get you the type of woman who makes lousy choices and accepts abuse, since that's the profile of lots of women I know who hook up with men who treat them that way.
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miller2k,
i make it a point to conduct myself as a gentleman and have never attacked anyone on this site. however, i find your recent posts to be mean spirited, malicious and utterly absurd. i doubt if you'll "misinterpret" that - as you say. you haven't been on this forum for a long time and stay off it! you're nothing but but a snotty little mischief maker who adds nothing to this site. all you do is attack people and add nothing which is constructive or therapeutic.
i particularly got a charge out of your witless advice in that sinj. should be more introspective and blame himself for the treatment he gets from these american bitches. he and no other guys here need to have that trip laid on them. they and american guys in general get enough of that jive on a day-to-day basis. you sound like the kind of guy who watches oprah & dr. phil.
get off this site and take your snotty accusations and mischief making somewhere else. if i ever see you post anything on the wsg anywhere, i'm going to simply bypass it.
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You have a good point there, Joe_zop. Perhaps it is the New York City that is the problem. Women here are more greedy, aggressive, and pushy. Unfortunately, in America, it takes a longer time to build a relationship from the initial friendship. Girls here in America freak out if I ask them out the first to the fifth time we meet. I didn't have the fortune to spend more than a week in other states to build a long term relationship in other states. I did notice that American women in other states do expect you to live in their state and they still expect you to take a while to build a friendship before they even date you. They still put up the same shield as the ones in the city. One of them said that she has to get to know me better before we can date. This was in the small town of Springfield, Ohio. I was running out of time and I asked her out for the Thursday of that week I was there. I met this girl on a Monday night and hung out with her for the entire week but she still wanted to keep it at a friendship level. Unfortunately, a week is not enough time to build a deep enough friendship to ask a girl on a date. Foreign women, on the other hand would date you even if you don't live there because they just want to have fun. They go out with you if they are interested in you. I had girlfriends overseas that agreed to go out with me after meeting them the second day. I wish I had more time in smaller towns to experience a long term relationship and make a sound judgement of them.
Perhaps the ones that favor American women met them in the small towns. I know the ones in the major cities suck and they are not worth the wait. Perhaps the ones in the smaller towns are worth the wait. However, once they move into the city, they might get corrupted by the local women in the city or by greed. I also heard that city girls are more likely to get divorced than smaller town women and are the majority of the 55% divorce rate of this country. Money is also a pressing issue here. Girls expect me to make a lot of money and buy them stuff because I live in a city of opportunity.
Vegas, however, is an issue in itself because girls are from many different cities and some of them come from Mexico. I met a Mexican chick while I was there. We met at the RA dance floor in the Luxor and we made eye contact while dancing. We wrote notes to communicate because the music was too loud. We hit it off that night. We only had time left for 2 dates, though, because my company only sent me for training for 4 days. I use the same approach I usually use, being a nice gentleman. It appears this works on most other women other than the ones in the big cities where they marry for money.
I know I am nice to women even if I sound disgruntled on this board. Why else would I be hooking up in foreign countries, especially where there is not as much racism and defensiveness as there is in the US. I will continue to be nice and friendly to women and that is my approach. Perhaps I am not hooking up here in the US because I live in the wrong city. Hoever, if I were to move to a small town, I would have to give up my job.
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I think that what people have to realize is that you have to view
America from an outside perspective to see it for what it really is:
1) In America, in 2003, marriage is just a gimmick. Back in the day
I would say it had some validity but now we live in a very selfish,
materialistic culture that makes it hard to find a true partner. I
think the only way it really works is if you are both older and
mature and have seen the bullshit for what it really is.
2) In other countries not only are the women different but the men are different too. I have said this in earlier posts but I will say it again: The American man created the American woman. Maybe not directly but our culture reinforces many sexual stereotypes about men when comes to sex. Our culture creates this interplay between men and women.
3) In America women basically try to extort as much money out of men as possible through regular dating relationships which I call "indirect prostitution". With prositution being illegal
so-called regular women have no competition when it comes to sex. They know they have a grip on you because every other girl is playing the game.
4) I think the biggest thing about America that is wrong is the the
deception involved in marriage and dating. In South American
countries everything is out in the open and you know who the hookers are. That knowlegde is the edge that men have there. Here if they ever tried to make prostitution legal women would fight it with all their might because they know that they're game would be exposed.
5) In America, sex is similar to the drug game. America makes all
these drugs illegal knowing full well that people are still going to
use them so what they do is allow it to happen to a degree to
capitalize off of it. Because it's illegal it creates a demand where
you can overinflate the price. Anything illegal is expensive. And
that's why sex is here. Imagine if they made cigarettes illegal.
One cigarette would be $10.
6) America mocks male sexuality. It's considered by women as
something to manipulate. In other countries their sexual attitudes are very relaxed; they view sex in a more casual light almost comparing it to sleeping or eating. Just a normal part of life.
7) Women's psychology here is a result of how society and men treat them. Female sexuality is giving so much attention here. Everything is about whether a girl should give it up or not, don't call the guy, don't kiss on the first date, play hard to get and other bullshit. Then comes the attitudes and the fakeness of the women; I hate rude and fake people, men and women. I work in a situtation where I'm in contact with people from all around the world and that alone changes my perspective. I look at these foriegn guys and they make me laugh with their mannerisms and shit. The point I'm trying to make is that we live in rude society and that is why the women are so rude. In a lot of other countries their culture doesn't encourage rude behavior
so the women are not as rude.
8) I've met foriegn women who didn't like America because they felt it was not romantic enough. That there were to many rules here. So it's the culture that's creating this and it affects men and women negatively because no body is happy, even the women.
9) I feel sorry for some of the men who have never had a chance to travel and see the light. They are caught in a trap that sucks away their money, time and confidence. I feel that not all American women are bad, it's just that so many are bad it's real hard to see the good ones. I feel traveling gives you a good reference on a good or bad woman. I lot of men here deal with women who are bad and think they are rolling good because she is a little better than the last chick they had. Also, I live in a place that really sucks: Atlanta. Mainly because I really like latin girls but they really don't live here so I only have option a) a fine black girl that's basically an asshole or b) a white girl but I want c) an attractive latin girl to be my girlfriend. So that's my situation.
10) Lastly to Darkseid. I have read your posts before and I have
liked them but I want to add my two cents on the gay issue. I used to feel that the women helped turn the men gay but now I realize these guys are gay because they like men. It's that simple. I learned that in Rio where pussy is everywhere and they still want to fuck a man. Holla.
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well, i don't think it's [i]just[/i] in new york, by any means -- but i do think it's a far more difficult place than many. your comments on dating are pretty dead on, i think, in that american women tend these days to want to know who it is they're going out on a date with, so doing it cold doesn't seem to have the same level of acceptance as it does elsewhere, where dating is part of the formal "getting to know you" process. it may well be that american women are somewhat spooked by all the press and statistics on date [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] and want to hedge their bets a bit. i suppose if i was in that position, reading about it all the time and probably knowing someone who'd been attacked, (which is the case according to stats) i might react cautiously as well to being asked out by someone i didn't really know. (not that that necessarily actually changes likelihood on the date [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] scene in any event.) let's face it -- americans (and especially girls) have it drummed in from childhood not to talk to strangers, and that has had an effect on our basic level of trust.
i do think that american women are less likely to think in terms of having a week be enough time for a relationship -- in other countries they know you're a visitor and are leaving at some point, so the ticking clock is in your favor, but here it's seen as a disadvantage, as it means you're not going to be available and are just looking to get laid and blow town. because american women are generally looking for marriage material, there ends up being so much more heightening of everything as opposed to simply getting to know each other.
i do think the pressures of larger cities play into things -- let's face it, in larger cities there's very much more pressure to get ahead for both men and women, and much more a sense of where you stand on the pecking order, and that plays into the dating scene. there's just more stress and pressure in general, and that can't help but affect things. a lot less of that in smaller places, where the so-called "trophy wife" (the male side of the "rich husband" coin) is less an issue.
you're in a tough spot -- it's not very realistic to say, well, i'll just head out to a small town and find someone who's compatible, even if that were to be the most realistic approach. no guarantee that would work in any event, as you're still going to be the stranger from out of town for a while. on the other hand, for me relationships are really more important to my life than work or money, so the idea of changing jobs or not making as much money doesn't really bother me in that regard. but i say that as someone who's generally been able to do what i like to do no matter where i happen to be, and recognize that's the exception, not the rule. bottom line, i think, is that you can only be who you are and trust that you will come across someone who likes that package. in nyc, i think the longer-term process of getting to know someone before asking for a date can work very much to [i]your[/i] advantage, as you'll lessen the chances of rejection (may get a clue who's racist) or incompatability (figure out who's a feminazi) but i still just think it's a tough place to date, period. (unless you're gay -- then i think it works out great, from what my gay friends tell me, simply because availability is high and things are above-board.)
and i do think miller's point about americans, both men and women, wanting to "win" the relationship is an excellent one. we think about winning everything else, why should relationships be any different? but that really messes things up, i think, as it should be a cooperative team effort against the world, not you against her. in other countries the mindset is far less adversarial, it seems.
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i have to point the finger at our law enforcement as well. joe_zop, you brought up that there is much [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] in the us which is the cause of american women's mistrust in the travelling businessman like myself. the cause of thaese [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124][CodeWord124][/url] is the lack of enforcement to stop these [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord124][CodeWord124][/url]. instead the law enforcement is too focused on stopping johns from *****mongering, drug users (not drug dealers), stopping speeders on highways, and busting people for looking at pornography. these petty crimes are easy to stop because these are done by law-abiding citizens like us. they are afraid of stopping the hard-core criminals because they don't want to get shot. most professional criminals like the drug dealers, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127][CodeWord127][/url], serial killers, and gang lords have guns or knives and these coward police officers don't want anything to do with them. since cops are so afraid of them, these scum of the earth roam freely in america causing mistrust among the women. instead, cops stop the people doing petty things like prostitutes, recreational drug users, people speeding to get to work on time, and even street peddlers selling things on the streets without a merchant's license. it seems like 90% of the police force has gone out to stop the petty crimes rather than the more dangerous criminals.
in countries where these petty crimes are legal, cops are out stopping the real crimes. in holland or germany, instead of trying to bust johns, cops actually stop people from brawling in bars, murderers, [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord127][CodeWord127][/url], and robbers. i saw a two on one fight being broken up by cops and the cops handcuffed all 3 of the brawlers and asked them questions for a police report. the cops came within seconds of the brawling. see, they are not distracted by these petty illegal things that america deems illegal. in america, i had to wait 15 minutes for cops to show up when i witnessed a car theft in newark, nj. by the time the cops came, they escaped. i described the stolen car but no cops went to pursue the thief. there is however, petty theft crimes because the punishment, if caught, is much less severe than a murder or [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]. i do agree however that there are stricter and much worse countries than the us like the middle eastern countries where there is also a lot more violent crimes because they have worse petty crime enforcement with less enforcement on serious crimes. in the middle east, a pickpocket who steals to eat who even picks a fruit up from the floor can get his hands cut off. meanwhile, they have domestic murders in which the husband abuser gets away with murdering the wife. the middle eastern country even encourages the killing because they are a bunch of homos that hate women.
with the lack of law enforcements arresting the criminals that ruin it for us, american women became cold and defensive for the rest of us.
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Paddy...well, I'm glad that you decided to write a post telling me that you're going to ignore me. That's really a big relief...now that I know you won't be reading my posts, I can finally start using big words. Anyway...good luck with the whole "I hate everyone, please love me" mentality. Tell us when you change the entire world to fit your form of thinking..
on to serious matters: I will pass along a bit of advice that a female friend once gave me...it's been really succesful in the past. She told me that women want men who don't really need women. In other words, they like strong men who are self-sufficient and could care less whether women want them or not. Even in this day and age, women still want a strong man (notice that by "strong" I don't mean violent or obssesed or abusive...) The moment I stopped chasing the women of my choice, I noticed that they were more likely to come to me (of course, if they were interested. If not, then you won't convince a woman to like you) Guys who are OVERLY nice get put into the "friend" category and almost always stay there because women want a MAN, not a male version of a female...and they know that men are sometimes crude, rude, etc...A man who is decisive and confident gets women...period. Now of course, if you are a below average looking man and you're looking for a supermodel, then you still won't have success. As men, we're taught to find what we want and go for it, but in the pursuit of women you need to hold back on your natural urges...give them a little and wait for a response...the more you ignore a woman, the more she wants you (again, of course, if she was interested in the first place)...I know, I know..it doesn't make sense to me either, but if you want to win at Monopoly, you need to understand how to play...
As for me...I'm going for a walk right now...I need some time to recover from the fact that Paddy will no longer be reading my posts...
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Guys, very interesting forum here.
I found it few weeks ago and I am really enjoyed it.
I notice major problem with this particular topic.
You are out of ideas. Seems you ‘re complaining, repeating all over again.
I think you need help from outside. You have to learn from the men of other countries
I hope I’ll bring new ideas here. I just sorry for my English. I hope you understand it.
You also can chat with Russian Guys in Russian Forums.
I am from Russia. I came here to North America 10 years ago.
I had no problem to make money here. I am software consultant.
But what I see here in terms of relationship it is just disaster.
Before I came here I never in my life could imagine what the men could be abused by women like you guys.
We, Russian men, never paid attention to this problem what you have Here. Actually was no problem at all. Women were around us like the air. Every day, in the school, university, on the job, on the street, in the busses, in the stores, everywhere you could feel this interest from Russian women. You just needed little bit talk to them, be polite and she is yours. And most of them are really beautiful. NO MONEY. It was absurd to give money to women.
Well, actually often was quite opposite. For example, when I was student in university girls often prepared food and invite us for dinner. They knew what we always hungry ( all money was spend on vodka). Such dinners often finished in the girls beds. Here I talk to my friend from another former communist country – Rumania. Rumania has quite different culture from Russia.
But he had experience with girls basically the same. Although my friend is quite shy he didn’t have any problem with girls in Rumania. His experience was the same
like mine: girls were around him like the air. He just needed make minimum effort.
I also remember few times how girls fight between themselves to have right to sleep with the male. And they were beautiful girls. They fight until blood.
Well here I sow something different. I sow how Canadian men steal wife from his best friend. For me it is just unbelievable. In Russia, I used to that such ugly things could do only women to each other. But the man! I lost any respect to Canadian men.
So what the reason, why Americans such a suckers?
I believe, one of the main reasons is what the delicate balance, which was created by nature, between man and a woman, is destroyed here in North America. Nature gave to the men the muscles. This to bring security and food for women
Nature gave to the women the power the please the men. Nature created the women to be prostitute. This is such simple equitation. And is nothing wrong with it. It is just way how nature keeps men and women together, interested in each other.
For millions and millions years it works. But here, in North America the women can have security, comfort and food without the men. Why she needs to pay them by her pussy? Purpose of the men is corrupted.
Which were similarities in such different cultures like Russian and Rumanian – it was the same communist systems. The relationship between men and women in communist countries was almost same natural relationship as in Stone Age. Originally it was not purpose of communist system but it happened accidentally.
For example, in communist countries the police was very inefficient. Actually they could bring more troubles then they could help. Women could feel only secure if she had friends among men. Any service was very rare. If your car has been broken, you had to fix it yourself. If cold winter you had to do lot of physical job too. Bring and cut wood to heat the house and so on and so on. Well it was not so bad for me like you can imagine.
I would rather work physically than sit all day in front of computer and ruin my health. Women in Russia constantly needed the men to live with some degree of comfort. Because of that, the women there were so sweat. You, American, provided the women with everything. The men invented and build capitalist system including privileges for women, low, security and so on and were stupid enough to give all these goods to women for free. You destroyed balance. And now women don’t need you guys. You have to fight to get it back. Unfortunately I don’t think American man brave enough to do it. He can only go to other countries and spoil more girls.
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Thanks for posting Lenin, we needed new ideas on this forum especially from a foreigner's point of view. I agree that American men give women too much power. It's okay to be nice but did the American lawmakers, mostly male, have to give in to ALL the women's right activits demands? Did we have to take away prostitution because feminists complain and get their way from these pushover government? In foreign countries, men are men and women are women. In America, you can't really tell the difference because women have become the men. They hold high positions, cut their hair short, weigh as much as men or even more sometimes (I see a lot of heavyset women hook up with guys that weigh half their weight), and could even carry out a relationship with OTHER women. Yes, the USA have the highest OPENLY gay population on the planet. Lesbians could have kids more readily here than in other countries. In other countries where there is not as many sperm banks, created by desperate men trying to make a buck, women who are secretly lesbian have to have a man impregnate them. Lenin makes a great point that American men have given up the natural rights god have given us to the American women and yes there is an imbalance in nature caused by it, as brought up by Lenin. I see so much of this imbalance that I travel to other countries to take my mind off of this. In fact, women in America really hate sex and they see sex as only a means of controlling men. This is why everything in America is so puritan and prudelike. There is no prostitution, limited access to pornography (which the same feminists want to ban and stop production of and also the women in the video themselves hate doing them), and limited contact strip clubs. Europe and many other countries don't have these restrictions.
I admit we complain a lot on this board but at least we SEE the problem going on here and we do something about it by travelling to other countries where this problem isn't there or isn't as bad. I also want to go a step further by joining sexual freedom groups to protest all of this banning of sex. If any of you guys know of any, I would like to be a member.