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Not to deviate from the topic completely, but what is it with the US these days and the attitude about sexual harrassment? Before I moved from the States to live overseas (three years now) I remember the tone of pretty much most offices, except for maybe stock brokerages, is that you avoid anything to provoke a sexual harrassment issue in the office.
To wit, I would always remember to never say anything positive or negative to a female coworker out of fear that it may come off as sexual harrassment. I always felt that with so many lawsuits filed, it was so much easier to just say nothing out of fear of getting into trouble than to simply offer a genuine compliment to a fellow female coworker. Many of my male coworkers felt the same and we pretty much have never offered a nice compliment.
I think it is absolutely unconscionable that women in the US can't express their femininity and get a genuine compliment because of it. No wonder American women are all screwed up!
Now, fast forward to asia. I live in Beijing, China and sexual harrassment takes on a whole new definition. Some job ads for secretaries clearly state that the boss is looking for very specific physical measurements, age, single status, photograph, and often state outright that they he may want a little action on the side - and that this is part of the job! Many professional offices choose based on looks for the first cut, then brains and ability second. They often dont' have any brains or ability, but they get hired anyway because they are hotties. Of course there is absolutely no law against this and in fact, these jobs easily get filled because they want to advance their careers as fast as possible, and maybe even get married to the boss or taken on as his concubine which can be an extremely well paying job.
What is the difference between these women and professional sex workers?
IMHO I would say there is NO difference.
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I'm going to try 1 more time.
What makes american women a special case? America is a special case.
What makes america a special case? America is a sexual police state.
In america, the resources of the entire law enforcement, legal, and political structure is mobilized to arrest and punish men for trying to have sex. Very few other societies are like that.
The absence of non-criminal prostitution means that most american men can never take control of their own sexual lives. When, or if, you get laid is always someone else’s decision. Try to imagine waking up tomorrow, deciding you want to have sex that night, and then having it. No maybes, no begging and pleading, no having to “get lucky”. Your decision, your control. Pretty much the kind of control women have over their sex lives. They know when they're going to get laid.
No shit sandwiches, no hoops. If that girl you just have to have, that you have been making a fool of yourself over, still says no, you just smile and move on. You have an instant alternative. In fact, you’ll probably only give her 1 or 2 chances. No encouragement - adios honey. Try to imagine the end of desperation.
Now try to conceptualize a place where all of the other guys have the same option. Now none of you are desperate. That line of idiots waiting for you to get shot down just got a lot shorter. Can you feel the playing field start to level out. And when the women no longer hold all the cards, their attitudes and behavior will change.
American men are living in hell, but most don’t realize it because they’ve never seen anything else. American women are just taking what’s being handed to them. They’ve never experienced anything different either. Agressively criminalized prostitution, unique to this society, is the reason.
The social and religious environment in the us that brought this about is a topic for another discussion at another time.
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Hardbag,
I lived the scenario you described until I went into the military. I got my first permanent assignment overseas and went out on the town with some acquiantances two days after I arrived in country. They took me to the Red Light district in Frankfurt, and I felt like one of the kids that won a trip to Willie Wonka's Chocolate Factory. We entered a building where there were "erotic professionals" (I like to call them that out of respect for RN! LOL) standing in every door and things were slow to dawn upon me at first. As we went from door to door and floor to floor, the guys eventually told me in not so many words that it's basically a buffet: choose what you want and have at it. Imagine being able to do the "nasty" with basically any chick that satisfies your visual fancy! Ever since that day, my view of American Women has declined, steadily for the most part, steeply at some points, but it has ALWAYS been declining since that day.
I kind of had the idea that there should be some kind of organization that would enable guys to have their eyes opened the way I just mentioned, but I wouldn't recommend military service. Kind of an offshoot to the romance tours, but serving a more carnal need, if you know what I mean. If enough guys experienced this phenomenon, the groundswell effect it would create would be ENORMOUS.
Comments? Questions?
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Sinanju Master:
Other than some international "sex tours" that I've seen touted online, I can't think of much else. Just hope the world doesn't criminalize sex like here in America.
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this says it all about american women!
kennedy smith faces [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] civil lawsuit
chicago, illinois (ap) -- a woman claims in a lawsuit that william kennedy smith sexually assaulted her in 1999, and her lawyer said thursday that she did not come forward at the time because she was intimidated by his wealth and connections.
the kennedy cousin cleared of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charges in 1991 said his family and personal history made him a target for "outrageous" allegations. and the woman acknowledged having had a relationship with smith some months after the alleged assault.
in the lawsuit filed wednesday in cook county circuit court, 28-year-old audra soulias alleges that after a night of drinking in 1999, smith, now 43, forced her out of a cab and into his home where he sexually assaulted her. she is seeking more than $50,000 in damages.
her attorney, kevin o'reilly, said soulias was afraid to go to the police after the incident.
"she thought that dr. smith was too powerful and strong and would be able to discredit her very easily," o'reilly told the associated press. "she's young and innocent and didn't know what to do. she was afraid it would ruin her life."
o'reilly insisted the case was not about money and said the only reason she is seeking at least $50,000 is because that is the minimum amount required for a jury trial. smith said that soulias had demanded $3 million; o'reilly denied that.
in 1991, a jury in west palm beach, florida, acquitted smith of sexual assault and battery on a then 30-year-old woman he met in a nightclub. he said the sex between him and the accuser, patricia bowman, was consensual.
private investigator sought lawyer's help
soulias worked in 1999 as a personal assistant for smith at the center for international rehabilitation, a group led by smith that helps land mine victims, according to the lawsuit.
"he dragged me into his house, dragged me upstairs in his bedroom where he raped me," soulias told wbbm-tv in chicago.
o'reilly said smith left several apologetic voicemail messages after the incident, in which smith said he had a problem and needed help. he said soulias played the messages for a friend but had not kept copies.
smith, the nephew of sen. edward kennedy and of the late president kennedy, said in a statement that the allegations are false, calling them "outrageous, untrue and without merit."
"unfortunately, my family and my personal history have made me unusually vulnerable to these kinds of allegations," smith said.
o'reilly said he joined the case at the urging of private investigator paul ciolino, who was instrumental in helping a group of northwestern university journalism students free death row inmate anthony porter. ciolino secured the confession of another man.
the attorney said soulias had no boyfriends or sexual relationships before she became an employee of smith's. he described the alleged assault as "digital penetration."
she and smith later had a relationship that lasted several months, o'reilly said, but he said it amounted to further victimization.
"he had sex with her and she wasn't kicking and screaming," o'reilly said. "she had to do what he said. i wouldn't call that consensual." he said the woman's reaction was typical in cases of "acquaintance [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]."
he said soulias eventually took her story to prosecutors, who said it would be too hard to prove.
lawsuit: two women claim sexual harassment
soulias ultimately decided to file the civil lawsuit because she felt smith had engaged in a pattern of harassment, o'reilly said.
"this is not about money; this is about getting him to stop doing what he's doing," he said.
two other women filed complaints with the equal employment opportunity commission in the fall of 2003 claiming "repeated sexual harassment" and "unwanted sexual advances" by smith, according to the lawsuit.
the cir statement said the allegations stem from a "disgruntled employee who had failed to receive a promotion" who approached soulias and other former employees.
the eeoc and cir did not return messages left seeking comment.
smith is one of four children of former ambassador to ireland jean kennedy smith.
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Chuponalgas,
This is a fucked up shit...Dude, the laws here in this country are so anti-male that I almost want to puke. Look at the Kobe Bryant case. Any gold digging ***** can ruin any guy's life. I think, it is the time for american guys to stop being chumps and stand up against these B.S. before its too late..
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why we hate american women...
woman in kennedy smith suit says lawsuit is 'not about money'
chicago (ap) — the woman accusing william kennedy smith of sexually assaulting her five years ago says her goal is to stop his alleged behavior — not collect money.
audra soulias appears at a press conference thursday in a chicago law office.
by tim boyle, getty images
audra soulias, 28, filed a civil lawsuit against smith, 43, claiming he bought her drinks while she was celebrating her birthday in january 1999 and later took her to his house, dragged her upstairs and assaulted her.
"this is not about money. i do not wish to see one more woman victimized by this individual," soulias said at a news conference thursday. "enough is enough."
smith, who was cleared of [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url] charges in florida in 1991, said soulias demanded a $3 million payoff in exchange for not going to court. he said in a statement after the lawsuit was filed wednesday that "family and personal history have made me unusually vulnerable to these kinds of charges."
in a statement following his accuser's new conference, smith accused soulias' lawyer of presenting "baseless claims in the most sensationalistic manner. while i did date ms. soulias for several months in 1999, the accusations being made are absolutely false and misleading."
soulias attorney kevin o'reilly acknowledged that soulias had continued to work for smith until june 1999 and during that time had consensual sex with him on a number of occasions. he declined to comment on whether he had asked smith for $3 million before filing the lawsuit, saying he had given his word not to discuss any talks between the two sides.
o'reilly said soulias, who once worked for smith as a personal assistant, never went to the police about the alleged incident. private investigator paul ciolino, who is working for soulias, said that she told friends and others her story, but they warned her not to file a lawsuit.
"i've repeatedly been warned by everyone i've sought guidance from not to do this," soulias said. "i've been warned that i, my family and anyone affiliated with this case will be harassed, ruined and destroyed for bringing these allegations to light."
she said she would not have filed the suit had smith not telephoned her in january and left voicemails, which she believed were intimidating. she said the messages came after she told her story to an investigator who had been retained by the board of smith's center for international rehabilitation, which helps victims of land mines.
"on jan. 16, 1999, my innocence was involuntarily taken from me by someone i trusted and respected," soulias said. "it was taken from me in a manner that will haunt me to the day i die."
o'reilly described the january 1999 incident as an assault that stopped short of sexual intercourse. he said that until then soulias had lived with her family and had never had a boyfriend or any sexual experience.
in 1991, a jury in west palm beach, fla., acquitted smith of sexual assault and battery on a 30-year-old woman he met in a nightclub. he said his sexual relations with the woman, patricia bowman, had been consensual.
according to the lawsuit filed wednesday, soulias said smith called her the morning after the incident and left apologetic voicemails. soulias was accompanied at thursday's news conference by her younger sister, melissa, who said that she had heard the voicemails. o'reilly said the voicemails had not been preserved.
the lawsuit asks for at least $50,000 in damages, the minimum that such a court action must demand under illinois law.
smith's mother is former ambassador to ireland jean kennedy smith. he is the nephew of sen. edward kennedy, d-mass., and the late president kennedy.
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Chuponalgas,
Let me see if I got this right. This happened in 1999, and NOW she wants to set things straight? She's looking for something alright and it's not justice. Money, even publicity perhaps, but definitely not justice.
Sinanju,
You are one of the "blessed few" who has experienced the awakening that comes from true sexual liberation. I know exactly where you're coming from because I've had similar experiences myself. On the plus side, we know how good things COULD be. On the down side, we're stuck living with the way things are here (for now).
Hardbag,
Dead on target! The reason why they are like this is because they control the supply. Imagine the effect if we had a couple of different options. All of a sudden these women would have to compete. All of a sudden there'd be a shift awayfrom them towards us. It wouldn't take much, a relaxation of laws against prostitution perhaps. But this will never happen because it would create competition and the women here just won't let it happen.
In a way, it seems like we are victims of our own success. Anybody with an education and a little hard work can do fairly well for themselves. So, you get a very good supply of guys who make a decent living. Guess what all of them want? That's right, a good looking woman.
The big problem is that there's no increase in the supply of good looking women that would be needed to make all those guys happy. High demand and low supply. Hell, if I was a hot babe I'd be going for the gusto myself. Why fight your way to the top when you can snag some guy who will do it for you?
Let's face facts. They have an insurmountable advantage over us. So long as men (as a group) are willing to get down on their knees and beg for sex, women will always have the upper hand.
Of course I'm saying this in terms of one group over another. On an individual level there's always exceptions. That's the key! Don't play the loser's game. Don't worry about all the chumps out there. Just take care of your own situation and go for the better deal.
A week in the DR anyone?
Rock
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Sinanju, Mystic:
The answer is - live near the border.
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sexual harassment, the biggest bullshit thing going.
i was a target of a sexual harassment claim made by a former co-worker last year. here's the story:
about 2 1/2 years ago, we got a transfer to the office i work in from another office of the company i work for. she seemed real nice at the beginning, but her true colors showed through soon after. she would say things that contradicted who she really was. such as: "i treat everybody with respect" or "money isn't important to me". she also had the attitude that she had a gold plated pussy, and everybody wanted her. she wasn't very pretty, imho, but still fuckable after a few beers. she would constantly make sexual innuendo, and talk about what her and her bf were doing in the bedroom.
she found out from others that our boss transferred there after getting into a relationship with a female co-worker which created a lot of problems in his previous office. that's when she targeted him as her sugar daddy. she started pushing herself on him over a period of months until he submitted to her. both of them were seeing each other behind the backs of their other lovers. things started to change around the office. there was an awful lot of favoritism being paid to her by the boss. there were payroll issues, which didn't go unnoticed by his superiors. hours were being taken away from others with more seniority and given to her. i, as the union rep., had to do everything within my power to stop all of this, while at the same time balancing the need to fairly represent her as a dues paying union member. by this time the other lovers they were with found out about them. she moved away from her bf, claiming abuse. we at the office had gotten to know him, and knew there was just no truth to it.
she then came up with the sexual harassment issue idea. she began befriending and being more flirtatious toward me. she began calling me, and showing up at my house unannounced. i just played along, and didn't fall for her crap. others in the office knew what she was trying to do. they told me not to have sex with her, because she could then claim [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord123][CodeWord123][/url]. of course, her not knowing about this hobby, thought that i evidently never have sex, and would be eager to do so with her. she would run back to the boss claiming that i was making sexual advances toward her.
things came to a head around april 2003. i used all my knowledge of our union contract to fight back strongly against her and the boss. he would call me into his office and make threats against me, blackmail is more the word for it, trying to get me to back off. i stood firm, and with the backing of the union at the state and national levels, and from the boss' own superiors who have come to hate him very much, got him to adhere to the rules. seeing that all the work she really wasn't entitled to in the first place was taken away, she abruptly quit 1 month later.
six weeks later, i get a letter from eeoc telling me that i would be interviewed by my boss and the later by an eeoc rep about alleged sexual harassment against her. the boss interviewed me, but wrote down false responses to the questions i was asked. he absolutely refused to allow me to see what i had supposedly told him. the eeoc rep, a woman, asked me very similar questions, and couldn't understand why my responses were so different than what i told the boss. that's when i gave her a letter signed by everyone else in the office (about 10 others) letting her know what had really been going on for about 15 months. she then pretty much stopped the investigation right there. a funny thing happened on the eeoc rep.'s way out the door. the boss asked her if she needed to speak to him. she loudly announced: "no i didn't come here for you."
the claim was thrown out as baseless and without merit. the other problem with the claim is that she did not have the right to even file this claim against me, because i am not her boss. if she felt she was being sexually harassed by me, she should have told the boss. it would have been his responsibility to have it stopped. that would have then put the ball in my court to file an eeoc claim against him.
it's been over a year later, and 16 months since she quit. the two of them are still out to get me.
american women, gotta love them. things will be a lot better when i get to the dr in a few weeks.
k.j. baltimonger
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Baltimonger -
That is a great story that clearly expresses the need for caution when dealing with American women. Many of them know the power in their hands and don't have a problem excercising it if you [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord140][CodeWord140][/url] them off or they want something and need some leverage to get it.
The equally interesting part of this story is how once again it's an American man that is a coconspirator with an American woman. American men can be so wimpy and/or sex-starved that they are easily manipulated by women. It's like a Russian guy (Lenin) that used to post on this thread had commented on Russian women - they are better in so many ways because the Russian men and the culture wouldn't tolerate a lot of crap from them. But once they come to the U.S., so many of them will turn into disasters since they see so clearly the power they now have in this country.
American men collectively are responsible for what they have allowed to happen in this culture over time. I think the best that can be hoped for is that more and more men boycott American women and go elsewhere for their female desires. I know this is a sentiment of the men in general on this board, but I don't expect things to change much in this country in my lifetime. I just consider myself lucky I can get out of this country several months a year - unfortunately, most men don't have much time to get away. If I only had a few weeks free a year, I would probably consider moving to a major city close to the border for long weekend trips, and/or seeking out foreign women that have not been in this country very long.
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Hardbag:
I do live near the border (well, within driving distance).
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Jak:
Most American men can't afford to get out of the USA once in a while. A lot of them are stuck with b*tches who are on them like flies on sh!t.
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Mystic Pimp -
I hear you - I had the good fortune to get titanium balls somewhere along the way and never fell into the marriage trap.
My best friend has the "American Dream" in living color. Actually, he gets along with his wife pretty well and has two very nice kids. He just left for a family vacation for two weeks, but after getting away with me for his first monger trip this past spring in Buenos Aires, there's no doubt how he would like to be spending his vacation time now. He had to develop a cover story to get a week free with me, and he considers himself lucky that his wife is so good that she allowed this. He's actively laying the groundwork for another week away next year (I've been trying to talk him into Rio, but he's anxious about a story good enough to cover that one).
The funny thing is how he considers himself lucky that his wife even buys a story, since he compares himself to other married guys that wouldn't have a chance to pull a trip off. It was amazing to him how many women and married guys he knows and works with were surprised that she was allowing him to go. Many women asked him point blank about what she was expecting in return for allowing him to go (for a week of guitar lessons - wink, wink).
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Mystic,
You said this in your previous post. "Most American men can't afford to get out of the USA once in a while. A lot of them are stuck with b*tches who are on them like flies on sh!t."
If this is really true, I would say that most American men can't afford NOT to get out of the USA once in a while.
Just my own humble opinion.
Rock