That's the spirit, Tang!! :)
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That's the spirit, Tang!! :)
Money plays a big role in finding an American woman, but it plays a role with women anywhere. Women around the world will rarely consider a foreigner unless he is perceived to be affluent. That is why people who come from more affluent countries to less affluent societies are treated well by women. I think in America a man's looks are irrelevant, there are many cases of good looking women marrying rather unattractive men for the sole purpose of finding a meal ticket. If you bring a foreign woman into America she will most likely behave no differently from an American woman and will go after a guy with money. In fact a foriegn lady might even be worse because she will have some ridiculously high expectations. I have heard of guys bringing in foreign women only to be dumped/divorced once the green card came or they found a richer better looking guy. The general consensus around the world associates American males with being financially well to do. The best situation is for American men living abroad to take advantage of the fact that there is little competition outside the US in finding a good date.
Ever look at the ladies who are in first class?
If you are well-heeled enough (or lucky enough to get the upgrade from Biz, as is my case) you know what I am talking about.
Musicians, board level businessmen, celebrities of almost any stripe, are almost exclusively accompanied by stunning partners (RN, please note the gender neutrality here before you blast me!)
While there are seriously powerful/wealthy/important people who fly coach, the first class types are either serious trash or seriously wealthy. The wealthy ones are never ugly/fat/unfashionable, unless they are the man.
Money = power = attractive. Nothing new here. I do not think this is an exclusively "American woman" problem. "Trophy partners" cross all borders and cultural lines IMHO.
Cheers,
Sporadic
rn, you're right about anyone going toward the deep end when he/she can't even stay afloat without a flotation device, much less being able to swim in those waters. when i was a lot younger (my teens) i had tastes that gravitated toward the ubermodel. as i've accumulated a few years, i've relaxed my standards (not lowered them) to include those who could possibly bring something to the table that i may not be able to perceive at the moment. i still like ultra-attractive women, but i refuse to play their game by falling at their feet like some sailor made mad by the song of the sirens. i've looked twice (discreetly) at some women that my friends may turn up their at. i have my tastes and they have theirs.
my peeve is when women expect the sky when they are in need of a serious reality check that will show them they are worthy only of the soil the stand on. the following is an example from which i posted quite a while back.
i was chatting with a friend (a czech chick who was a former model and yes, i wanted to fuck the shit out of her) and she told me that a mutual acquiantance was lamenting the fact that she was w/o a bf. this chick told me that elizabeth was too picky and that she wanted to date guys who wore italian suits, drove high-end sports cars and either had cash like no tomorrow or were high-powered executives. i won't begrudge a woman that fantasy, but this was her standard and she was wondering why she had ni man in her life! to put things in perspective, elizabeth would rate a 4 at best on any man's scale. this level of cluelessness in women amazes me. and rn, before you reach again for the hatchet to bury in my skull, take note that in the past, i've acknowledged that i'm no adonis and i've never held a double standard regarding said subject. it's the "fork-tongued" phenomena (women saying one thing and meaning another and expecting a man to believe it outright) that has me yelling foul.
In order to see this issue more clearly, we must focus on the vast middle area in this discussion. I'm not crying because I can't go out to a bar here in the states, bring a 10 home and bang her. Super-hot girls (and guys) have always lived in a different universe than you or I, and that's only natural.
For all intents and purposes and for the sake of my argument, I'm referring to average looking males and average looking females. No massive beer-bellies or heifers. I'm talking about young and middle-aged people in the prime of their dating and babymaking lives.
As I see it, the problem is not 10s acting like 10s. That kind of behavior is to be expected. The problem is 5,6, and 7s acting like they're 10s. It's this artificially inflated idea of self-worth that has no basis in reality that really disgusts a lot a guys I know. She's an average normal looking girl, not a super hot chick. And yet she won't give an average looking guy the time of day.
A perfect example of this is Sinanju Master's Elizabeth who will only date guys who wear Italian suits and drive Ferraris. And she's a 4! One might be forgiven for thinking that this girl is simply out of her mind, an insane anomaly not to be concerned with. Sadly, her belief system is shared by many of her sisters.
Where does this type of thinking come from? It's no big mystery.
From the moment they sprout boobs, females in this country are taught that the world, no, make that the universe, revolves around them. Hollywood, MTV, Cosmo reinforce this idea of "Girl Power!", advising females to "Kick Butt!" like your favorite Charlie's Angel, and don't worry, because you don't need a man to be complete.
Does anyone remember the last song from one of pop's current princesses, Avril Lavigne, called Don't Tell Me?
Avril's song is basically about this poor slob who has been spending time with her lately. He has listened to her crying about whatever bullshit crisis is currently embroiling her life. Yes, he is functioning as an emotional tampon, but that's not the key point here. The point is her response to his advances. Not content to simply brush him off and move on, she threatens to assault him:
"Don't think that you're charming, the fact that your arm is now around my neck
If you touch my pants I'll have to kick your ass and make you never forget"
She ends the song with:
"Better off that way ...
I'm better off alone anyway"
Well, baby, if present trends continue, you will get your wish. As noted here recently by PsyberZombie, in his most excellent post which can be read here:
[url]http://www.*************.info/forum/showpost.php?p=342344&postcount=2129[/url]
Throughout the western world, the number of single person households is on the rise: "In the UK census data reveals that the number of single person households grew by 14% between 1991 and 2001." Nearly 15% growth in ten years. That's not a demographic blip, that's a full-on shift.
CBGBConnisur, I agree with you when you say: "If you bring a foreign woman into America she will most likely behave no differently from an American woman and will go after a guy with money."
Perhaps this thread would be more appropriatly titled "Women in American Society," because any woman, once exposed to the atmosphere and options available in this great country of ours, will most likely begin behaving, and making decisions similar to her native American sisters.
I am reminded of an old saying (actually posted by somebody here, I think) that goes something like:
"The man has all the money, but the woman has all the pussy."
Each party has something the other wants, so arrangements are made, agreements are arrived at. Right or wrong, that's how it's worked for thousands of years.
But that expression is no longer accurate. Revised for this modern era, to reflect the ascendence of the two-income household and female financial independence, one might say:
"The man has half of the money, but the woman also has half the money and still all of the pussy." (not to mention ALL of the rights when it comes to divorce court and family court.) How can you arrive at a deal when one side holds vastly more bargaining chips? I mean, really?
Some will no doubt object to my boiling down of the vast complexity of male/female relationships to something as simplistic as "dealmaking." But when you get down to it, isn't that all it truly is?
So, what then? Am I advocating a return to the days of female servitude and 2nd class citizenship? Of course not. But, I for one am truly concerned for the future. Birthrates in ALL of the major western countries are falling, with the exception of the U.S. Men and women are so sick of each other's perceived bullshit that they have just about given up trying to get along, settling for loveless marriages or no marriage at all. And the only reason the U.S. birthrate isn't falling as well is due to the projected increase of the Hispanic population, through immigration and through the relatively high birthrate of Hispanics already here.
I feel that the gulf of perception that exists between the sexes in the industrialized world is practically insurmountable. The wants and needs of each gender are so far apart from what the other is willing or able to provide as to be laughable. I have no answers, only dread for the future.
LS, actually, I posted your paraphrased saying a while back. A friend told it to me a LONG TOME AGO and it goes like this: "Women have HALF the money and ALL the pussy", but you got the idea.
In your analysis, you also pulled back the curtain to expose the Great and powerful OZ. Women will gush about finding the perfect partner (making you believe YOU are the one) gush about the wedding (after all THAT is what it's all about; a day dedicated SOLELY to THEM to feed their ego) but fail to plan ahead of time for the feelings that will be most common the day AFTER "Happily Ever After". If a guy feels trapped when a woman brings up the issue of marriage, he has good reason as stated by LS in his most recent post. Coming to the table BEFORE marriage, the balance of power is about as evenly balanced as it's ever going to get because the woman has no legal and sexual "Sword of Damocles" hanging over his head to force compliance if something makes him balk. After the paper is signed and the wedding completed, he can kiss half his assets and ALL his freedom (NOT freedom to fuck around, I don't advocate cheating by EITHER sex) goodbye. Regarding LS's post on increasing single-dom and the dears I just stated, why WOULD a guy want to enter into such a situation? Especially if the party that gains power after the marriage ALREADY has an inflated sense of ENTITLEMENT?
CBGB has the perfect solution: marry them but keep them in their own country.
Seems like women always ask that age-old question: "why are men so afraid of commitment"?
Reading the last few posts here seems to pretty much answer that question.
I think an American male who visits a foreign country with a lower standard of living than the US will find that his rapport with local women will be better than with women back home. The perception being that Americans are rich, what criteria makes a person "rich" varies around the world. In some parts of Europe, where there is double digit unemployment most women will be happy with a guy with a job. The more affluent the society the more they will expect. Go to a Latin American country and any American male in good health will be treated like Hugh Hefner.
The Czech girl mentioned below lives in the States so her expectations and attitude are no different than most native born American women. Go to her home country and the attitude of local women will be much different.
'The World' doesn't see Americans as rich. POOR PEOPLE see Americans as rich - just as they see people from Australia and Britain and any other 'developed' country as being rich. If *I* travelled to a developing nation, I'd probably have local men falling over themselves to impress me enough to get a plane ticket to Australia. There are people in every country looking for a free meal ticket, including your own. Go down to your local 'trailor park' in an Armani suit and a BMW and you'll be beating women off with a stick! Its not because you're American - its because you can give them a way out of the hell they're living in.
And then, of course, there's gold diggers - who exist in every country and in BOTH genders. Men and women who are willing to lie, cheat and prostitute themselves in order to live a life of luxury at someone else's expense. (For the record, I can probably overlook deception from a person motivated by the desperation of poverty - I have nothing but contempt for gold diggers).
But one thing many of you seem to be forgetting when comparing 'foreign' women in their OWN country to American women, is the power of the 'holiday romance'. If I have the choice of an Aussie bloke or an American tourist for a one nighter, who am I gonna pick? The guy with the sexy accent who is leaving the country in a few days, or the ordinary guy on the street who is probably gonna ask for my phone number and hassle me for sex at a later date? The American guy is also in 'holiday mode', so he's more likely to take me out and show me a good time, PLUS he's more likely to spoil me rotten and treat me like a princess in order to get into my pants as quickly as possible, because time is not on his side. Local girls are always gonna find a tourist an attractive option for a no-strings shag.
And 'foreigners' are exotic (especially if you are a white person in a dark-skinned country or vice versa). I'm sure my Aussie accent and tanned skin would have a good degree of pulling power in other countries (certainly more than it has here, anyway!). And I, personally, love African-American men and Latin women. And I could sit and listen to an Irishman or an Eastender or a Texan cowboy all night long. A black man with a Southern drawl who can't pick up in his own country, would have a whoooole lotta luck in mine. :)
It's not ALL about the money, you know. Some of us just like to f*ck exotic strangers who are guaranteed to bugger off in the morning and never come back! LOL
holy crap! it's... like... rn peered into my head regarding the "holiday romance" thing! lolol
If we go with the equation that Long Stroker notes, which is that women in American society are earning pretty much the same as men with the same opportunities, and are working in much the same numbers, then doesn't that shift the "divorce is hell because she gets half of my shit" equation? Doesn't it really become "our shit" in a much truer sense?
Well said, RN, regarding the attraction of foreigners and the exotic.
RN are you telling us that sometimes you just want to pick up a stranger and fuck him blind and not see him again? I'm shocked! Shocked I tell you!!!
By the way Daddy lives in The Great State of Texas Hmmmmmmmm maybe I should be going to Oz?
I am quited interested in this discussion now that I have checked out this board. Thanks Long Stroker. This doesnt necessarily pertain to American women, but I think I am in love with a Peruvian girl I met on my recent trip. I have been extremely cynical and jaded about women in recent years and to discover mongering in foreign countries has been like a godsend to me. Now I dont look at American women or make any attempt at all to even befriend them, much less date or bang them. Anyway I met this girl and she was a real sweetheart and I felt enamored very quickly. She was just so completely opposite (so I think) of anyone here in the states I had ever dated.
I have thought about the quotes I have heard here recently that love equals defeat. The other night on the phone I uttered the dreaded phrase, "I love you." She had been saying it to me repeatedly in peru and on the phone after I returned. AS soon as the words left my mouth I thought, "oh shit, now you've fucked up. Why did you say that you fucking idiot?" I felt like I had just lost all the power leverage, or power, I possessed in the relationship and handed it over to her. Now I feel like I have lost what got her to want me in the first place. The fact that I was so unattainable to her. There has been no apparent change in her attitude that I can detect. Still sweet as sugar, still asks me for nothing, pays her own english lessons and turned down my offer to help her out a little. As in, too good to be true. But now theres no going back, I cant call her and say, "hey, Im not really sure if love you or not, I was in a good mood and happy to here your voice and got carried away. Lets take it slow and see what happens." This would effectively fuck everything up.
Do most of you guys really believe that to love is to lose with the vast majority of women, or just american women? How do you feel in these matters when it comes to foreign women in third world countries such as Peru? Is there no hope anymore for loving someone and winning? Sometimes I feel that way, more often than not. I had become convinced that I would remain single forever and just find a nice girl or two to visit in other countries as often as I can, or just go and monger exclusively and forget finding a nice girl altogether.
If I sound confused and fucked up about all this its because I am. I dont know what to believe anymore or what to do when it comes to potential relationships. I always feel that no matter what I do, I am going to either make the wrong decision, or lose no matter what I do. Well, I guess thats all for now. maybe someone can straighten me out.
Later
Milkster
Sounds like [b]Mikster[/b] has finally met a Trvly Feminine Woman for the first time in his life
Go back and read Post # 2129 here to see what I mean , Mikster
I agree with PS as an American it's difficult for us to understand the depth of love latinas are capable of. Even the pro's engage in a way that American women don't. Like you I found a really wonderful women in South America and sometimes it's difficult to accept that She does love me as She says She does. Is it a forever thing? It's too soon to tell but Shes as amazing as anybody I've ever met. I understand your conundrum though, perhaps you do have loving feelings for this woman but are still unsure if it's a lifelong thing who knows. Good luck sorting it out.