My apologies to whom it might concern for posting on the wrong thread.
I did not mean to upset anybody. As for the term "*******" ( same to you).
Now, fuck off, BASTARD!
Printable View
My apologies to whom it might concern for posting on the wrong thread.
I did not mean to upset anybody. As for the term "*******" ( same to you).
Now, fuck off, BASTARD!
Why don't you actually READ my post. It wasn't very long
You may have missed the parts where I said:
"NO OFFENCE"
And also "ONE *******", which was NOTreferring to you, but the schmuck who is clogging up this board with his delusional, irrelevant bullshit.
CBGB:
You are right on about the loudness of AWs...
One basic thing most of them lack is eroticism... they simply arent erotic. You dont get the kind of erotic vibe from most AWs... even the top drawer kind... that you do out of even average European and EE girls. It is like they are taught to be either non-sexual or sexual in the most basic way. A bore. No wonder they are drawn like a moth to a flame to basic modern American symbols of male sexuality... car, clothes and cash.
American women get so jealous when they witness really feminine women of a foreign origin.They tend to look at them as lower class or cheap for flaunting their beauty.
Another look I love to see is western women in dark skinned countries absolutely confused when the average clerk in a store is way more beautiful then she is.I've noticed women immediately talking down to the store clerk.Western women are way too pampered and spoiled...too many facials...too many massages...and way too much credit for what most of them really are.
On my last trip to peru I became friends with a scrawny australian backpacker who made it known she had a boyfriend (in the first 20 minutes) who asked me what kind of women I like.I pointed to an average peruvian women who was obviously of low income status but so well put together and oozing with pride.The australian girl gave me a gross and confused look and said "really" .
They have no idea about style or personal pride. Anorexia and gucci doesn't make you beautiful! You cant buy style nor can you buy pride.I love the way little round latin women still work it to the T I have no problem going a little chunky in the latin world in america they have no style no flair and no self pride..all of which make you beautiful.
Last point..." I love to see women of minorities out do well funded white women" the look of confusion is priceless.If they would only realize the attitude has so much to do with beauty.You either have it or you dont.
Art,
I have to say you are right on most points. I am headed to Peru tomorrow. I have been many times in the past, but for some reason I can not get them out of my system. A friend of mine has a hot Danish chic who wanted to share the apartment I am renting (I told him no way) Danish chics are probably worse then their American counterparts.
Erotic or Exotic?
I often confuse confuse these terms. As a rule SA women are among the most erotic to be sure, when you add in a little blood from a "Peruvian Amazon girl" or "Charapita" is when I find i have discovered a whole other experience.
I would strongly recomend the guys crying in their beer over AW, Take a trip to one of the worlds most amazing countries and experience some of the worlds most amazing women!
[QUOTE=Artisttyp]American women get so jealous when they witness really feminine women of a foreign origin.They tend to look at them as lower class or cheap for flaunting their beauty.
Another look I love to see is western women in dark skinned countries absolutely confused when the average clerk in a store is way more beautiful then she is.I've noticed women immediately talking down to the store clerk.Western women are way too pampered and spoiled...too many facials...too many massages...and way too much credit for what most of them really are.
On my last trip to peru I became friends with a scrawny australian backpacker who made it known she had a boyfriend (in the first 20 minutes) who asked me what kind of women I like.I pointed to an average peruvian women who was obviously of low income status but so well put together and oozing with pride.The australian girl gave me a gross and confused look and said "really" .
They have no idea about style or personal pride. Anorexia and gucci doesn't make you beautiful! You cant buy style nor can you buy pride.I love the way little round latin women still work it to the T I have no problem going a little chunky in the latin world in america they have no style no flair and no self pride..all of which make you beautiful.
Last point..." I love to see women of minorities out do well funded white women" the look of confusion is priceless.If they would only realize the attitude has so much to do with beauty.You either have it or you dont.[/QUOTE]
And Australian women are actually an improvement over their US counterparts, tells you how bad American women really are. Oh yeah, I hate to get into race arguments, but women of any ethnic group in the US are all the same, I used to live in a culturally diverse city, any women Asian, African, European, South American, etc. who lives in the USA for a while is pretty much an AW no matter that she has an accent or a darker skin tone.
[QUOTE=Doctor_Skank]CBGB:
You are right on about the loudness of AWs...
One basic thing most of them lack is eroticism... they simply arent erotic. You dont get the kind of erotic vibe from most AWs... even the top drawer kind... that you do out of even average European and EE girls. It is like they are taught to be either non-sexual or sexual in the most basic way. A bore. No wonder they are drawn like a moth to a flame to basic modern American symbols of male sexuality... car, clothes and cash.[/QUOTE]Ding Ding DIng! Winner winner winner!
Well said, brother. American Women are not sensual at all. Not naturally, like European or South American wimmins. There are a couple of European women that come into my gym. You can almost tell them off the bat, they actually make eye contact and smile. And not the fake smile AWs posses, a real genuine smile.
Best statement ever!
F
Judging someone by race or ethnicity is completely foolish and shallow. Making a judgement about someone based on the place where they live and their surrounding culture might be more accurate. I knew a lot of Asian women in New York, most of them grew up or spent a considerable amount of time in the USA, culturally they have nothing in common with women from Asia. I have met other ethnicities as well, the American women mentality is infused into these women as well, I read an interview with an Indian-Canadian model and some of her views were absolutely arrogant. Society plays a major part in a shaping a person's views. One of the most nasty examples of American woman that I knew was a Korean American girl in high school who told me her jacket was worth more than my life when I asked her out for a date. The best thing is just to get out of the USA, the only decent enclave in North America for meeting fun women in my experience has been Quebec, particularly Montreal.
I have had amazing experiences while on vacation in Europe, so obviously this is a cultural issue. If you look it up the European Union's economy is roughly the same size as the USA, but despite living in affluent and prosperous societies, European ladies don't seem to have the same arrogance and obsession with material desires as their American counterparts. You could go to Germany, visit an FKK brothel, and have sex with a playboy quality woman for less than the cost of a lap dance at a dumpy titty bar in the USA.
I agree with CBGB that you cannot generalize on ethnicity.I am friends with an American woman who was born in the PI,Went to school in the PI and she is very Filipina in her outlook on life.She has a totally UnAmerican attitude and She finds that her Stateside Sisters "maltreat"their men from her point of view.She regularly cooks,Does Massage and helps her boyfriend.Enviroment has a role too.
A vague article that touches on the surface of $$ and divorce with AW:
Demystifying the Power of Moolah
By Sheerly Avni, AlterNet. Posted January 24, 2006.
In her new book, 'Money: A Memoir,' Liz Perle argues that when it comes to their wallets, women still have a long way to go.
"Women, emotions and cash." This is the subtitle Liz Perle chose for her new book, Money: A Memoir, a brutally honest look at how women's conflicted relationship to money holds them back in love and life. We know more about our friends' sex lives, she says, than we do about their pocketbooks, and women are still caught in a push-pull of desire for cash and shame over that desire. Perle doesn't offer any easy answers, but she forces us to ask hard questions about one of our deepest taboos. And asking the questions is the first step.
AlterNet met with Perle in her San Francisco office and asked her all about sex, love, divorce court, double-ovens, and how to decide who should pick up the check.
In this book, you argue that money is always a fraught symbol.
Yes, it always carries the weight of something else. Money for men is power, it translates into sexual power. And for women, it's an aphrodisiac, because for centuries, women could only survive by attaching themselves to people who had money.
So I'm reducing here, but it seems that in the first half of the book you say that for men, money means power, and for women, money means love and security. But then at the end, you reinterpret that formula and say actually that for women too, money means power, which is why our relationship to it is so problematic. But when you say "power," what exactly do you mean?
Power: independence, freedom, the ability to make your own decisions.
Why wouldn't we want that? Why would women have a hard time embracing it? Isn't that exactly what women have been fighting for?
OK, you've got to look at how fast this has all happened. This is where the women's movement to me, is alive and well.
Move back a few generations: My grandmother's relationship to money was indirect. She didn't work. My mother, she went to college and she worked, but then she met my father and stopped working. Now, she died, so I don't know what would have happened, she might have gone back to work. That was a shift, but the money was still expected to come from the husband. The image of nirvana that was being broadcast was still the idea that the husband brought home the money.
Remember that the media creates norms. The Cleavers never existed, but how many people do we describe as Eddie Haskell? The media images are archetypes for us, so my mother felt perfectly secure depending on my father.
Now, today society will judge me on two different scales when they weigh my worth: 1) the amount of money I make and the prestige of my position, and 2) my ability to attain the womanly arts: to marry, to reproduce, to keep a nice home.
What about attractiveness?
Oh, that's part of the womanly arts. Implicit in that is that you've got to look good enough to get there in the first place -- and then keep yourself there.
So here I am: I have both those values systems inside me, I'd have to be the girl in the bubble not to. Each of those value systems contains a specific relationship to money. ... One is direct, the other is indirect. And I've spent my life ping-ponging back and forth between the two.
So you are in this constant state of turmoil between two ideals, two archetypes, and when you have two ideals that are discordant, it makes for a lot of conflict and ambivalence. It's these two different value systems that operate in our society, whether or not we accept them, and they pull us apart.
In your book, you say that the younger generation is different from your generation. What's the difference? Are the conflicts resolved? You found the younger women to be less conflicted.
Yes, I think younger women are more comfortable with their material sides And I'm not sure that's all to the good. The person who reflected the healthiest relationship to money was this one woman, Anna. She knows that cash is just cash. I admire her, because she's got a very clear sense of what cash can and can't do. What they don't have is a sense of fiscal responsibility, they've been raised in a society of credit card debt. That will be their challenge.
It's also more expensive to be middle class than it used to be.
[Laughs] Ah yes, the poor middle class. First of all, what constitutes the range of what we call middle class these days is huge. And I call it an emotional state more than just a financial one. It's an emotional middle class because it's about belonging to a group of people that has enough money to satisfy their material needs and yet feel secure.
Now most of this has been financed by debt, which is not a good development. When I first started writing this book, the average debt of an average family was $8,000. A year later, when I finished, it was $9,000. People save less than 1 percent of their earnings. Look at our country! The fish stinks from the head down.
Photo credit: Steven Pressman
So we may be more comfortable with our material expression, but we sure haven't figured out how to live within our means. And part of that is because we still get confused between what we need and what we want.
Can you give me an example of something you think you need, when really you just want it?
Oh my god. A double oven. All I want is a double oven. And to get that double oven I would need a new house! I have this tiny kitchen, I'd have to get rid of a bathroom to make room for the oven. So I know I just want it, but I tell myself I need it. How am I gonna cook this pot roast, and dessert!
But you know, people have managed this crisis for thousands of years.
OK, so to take the bigger issues of how money plays out in a marriage to something smaller, like a date. What would be the ideal way to handle the dinner check?
I think the healthiest thing is if people don't even make it an issue. Look what it's doing, it's carrying all this emotional freight. What is it, for real? It's a dinner check, it's not anything else. There is a whole industry that has built itself around the idea the fact that we are all too happy to let gifts do the talking when it comes to love. Or sex. Or lust. The ideal thing for a dating situation is to see that dinner is dinner and it costs something, but that's it. There's nothing else to say.
You wrote this book for women. If you were to write a version of Money: A Memoir for men, what would you have to say?
You are more than your wallet. Start valuing yourself by contributions that have nothing to do with what you earn.
You know if I were a man, I'd have an answer for that: "Easy for you to say -- every woman I meet wants to know how much I make."
Sure, and you'd be right, but this is where social change comes in, with the awareness that there is a social prism. Gloria Steinem said, "No social change without men, too." And money is definitely a man's issue as well.
I think men's ambivalence comes from the fact that on the one hand they want to be evaluated by the money they make, because it creates a very clear hierarchical goal which is comfortable and easy to tell where you stand in the pecking order. And also they are very aware of being short-changed because they don't get honored for other things, things that they don't get compensated for. You need a lot of inner strength to make a lot less than your wife. You've got to think well of yourself.
So men are split in two different directions as well, but the conflict plays out differently?
The point is that we all need money to survive. We all want money to be comfortable and secure. And we all desire money because it creates social mobility, power. I would like to see that desire go gender-blind.
How relevant do you feel arguments like this are to women who are not members of the middle class? In lower-income, inner-city com***ities, for example, where the woman is usually the primary breadwinner?
Well here's the thing, when you're writing about money, there is not one truth, except that we all need it. But you're right, and that almost stopped me from writing the book. I called my agent and I said, "You know, I can't do this. I'm giving the advance money back, I'm writing this middle-class book "
And my agent said, "AND? These people don't need to wrestle with these issues?" He was right. The middle class are the people going into debt. They're not planning for their old age, they're raising children on credit. Basically, just because you're middle class doesn't mean you're not fucked up.
And if you're working class, you don't have a lot of these problems, you have other problems, which trump them. There's a food chain of issues. If you're working for survival, you're not going to be dealing with guilt. You're going to be dealing with sustenance. So there is a hierarchy to these demands. And maybe it was self-justification, but finally I realized that my feeling so guilty about writing a book about self and women, was just another form of guilt about money.
Sure -- the first thing you were going to do was give the publisher his money back.
There you go, and what was it? Guilt over being a member of the class of disposable income.
You write a good deal about how questions of what you were entitled to played out in your own divorce. And of course this goes directly to the way we do or don't value child-rearing and taking care of a home as work. Not on the level of feelings or self-respect, but literally on the legal level, when you start talking about divorce settlements.
It really varies state by state. We live in a country that has a very uneven playing field regarding divorce. If I had gotten divorced in California, I'd be a very wealthy woman. California, and the other equal property states come closest to recognizing that you don't need a pay stub to work, that the assets which accumulate in a marriage are the product of everyone in that marriage.
I know many wealthy women -- there's one woman I interview in my book -- who got divorced a couple of times, who will be paying huge amounts of alimony to her ex-husbands. It cuts both ways: Very fair, gender-blind makes sense. Not always fairly meted out, but in principle it makes sense.
But then you go to a place like Connecticut, or New York, or other states which are not equal property states, and you have to prove that what you do is work. Because we're still on the gold standard. We only accord the appellation "work" to something we pay taxes on.
But look, I work as hard at home as I do in the office. I'm not paid for it, but in a divorce I'd better look at what I'm doing as work, and not be ashamed of saying so and asking for it.
Where does that shame come from?
Well, as I said, it's this very schizophrenic feeling about money, where they feel ashamed to ask for it, where they feel that it's a handout in some way -- because someone else has the pay stub. But the fact of the matter is that frequently the person wouldn't have that pay stub without your hard work. And until you can look at that without guilt or embarrassment, you're not gonna be paid for what you do.
Sheerly Avni is a San Francisco-based writer.
Here's a link to an article that feeds on more of the feminists bs about AW being underpaid and under-represented:
[url]http://www.motherjones.com/news/exhibit/2006/01/limited_ambitions.html[/url]
I am appalled at all the bashing of American women in this forum. I am pretty sure majority of American women are not spoiled, greedy, demanding, materialistic, rude... Every country has good and bad people. What is significant is the relative ratio of the 2 populations.
Perhaps the bad attitudes are associated only with the specific population you gained exposure to. It should not be generalized to the entire population. It seems to me that people with less education, or come from disadvantaged backgrounds, are more likely to be self-centered and abrasive to others.
The vast majority of American women I know are fair, polite, humble, loving, caring, sharing, giving... They are generally taught to be independent and self-reliant, but fair and reasonable to everyone. If you have differences with them, just give them good, calm arguments, you will be surprised how flexible AW can be, and how quickly they can change their minds and manners.
My favorite nationalities, in personal interactions, are in this order: English, American, Dutch, Swedish, Argentinian, Japanese, South Korean, Spanish, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Brazilian, Mexican...
Of course my fluency in respective languages and my personality are major factors, so my experience is completely personal and probably different from everybody else. Also as I gain more exposure and experiences, my preferences may also change.
Just be level, fair and reasonable with the people. Try to have some fun with them. You'll be surprised of the good nature of humans.
One,
No one is saying that all American women are 100% bad to the core. It is not reasonable to make a 100% generalization about a large group of people. I know some real sweethearts, although they are outnumbered by bitches about 10-1.
However, in the last 50 years, American women have attained a disproportionate amount of power, and this has thrown gender relations into chaos.
Prostitution in the US is illegal. Women have a near complete say in whether or not men can have access to the satisfaction of a basic biological need.
The relative ease with which one can live here in the US makes seeking the shelter and protection of a good man optional. In other societies, men are treasured because of this. Here we are if one is to believe the media, feminists, etc all, we are "the stupid gender", and the butt of jokes.
The ease with which a woman can get a divorce (no fault), compounded with heavy legislative bias towards women, has turned marriage into a big lottery ticket for women. Married men are now held hostage by their wives ability to cause them financial ruin by not acquiescing to her wishes and whims.
In the workplace, ambiguous definitions of what actually constitutes sexual harassment, has resulted in an environment where a woman can ruin most any man's career given even the slightest provocation....innocent and intentional or not. The burden of proof in this situation falls upon the man....and it is extremely difficult to prove a negative.
This is just a quick overview. Women basically now have ALL the power, and act accordingly.
Men, to the perception of the average moderately attractive American woman are a resource with an infinite easily accessible supply, and therefore zero value. They can be, and are heartlessly exploited. Women, are in this country able to access everything from drinks at a bar to her monthly rent (Ok, this is extreme, but it does happen-not every woman is that cutthroat) by the slightest indication that they will be amenable to giving out sex (or love, companionship, etc)...and they feel no remorse whatsoever for failing to uphold their end of "the bargain"...they view it as just "the way of things".
For more additional examples, search Chocha Mongers posts....a few months ago he posted an article about "Female Players"....perhaps he would be so good as to re-post it.
That is all,
B9K
PS .56 for every 1.0 for AW is bullshit. As I recall, the actual statistic (possibly controlling as I recall for high paying but nasty dangerous work that most women don't want to do, and also for "time out" for "the Mommy track" ) is 1.01/1.0.
i agree with you…… the habitual bashing of american women on this board is often unfounded. although much of it can be attributed to just blowing off steam, few of the men who advance such arguments have actually resided long term as an expat in another country and then brought their imported woman back to the usa. perhaps more importantly, some of these fellas have been burned by aw and then raped by the legal ramifications of a divorce. but most all women are vindictive creatures; it’s just that in america and a few other nations the courts allow that vindictiveness to manifest itself punitively with respect to the man’s wallet. whose fault is that though? it’s our fault for allowing such laws to be created. like natasha, su yang, or azalea wouldn’t do the same if the laws in their countries allowed them to. and once they get to the west they seem to absorb the worst that american has to offer (unbridled materialism) without retaining our values (solid protestant work ethic, ambition, morality, and respect for the rule of law). that’s a combustible combination man: wanting it all but not willing to work for any of it.
i lived 75% of my working life abroad and have come to the final conclusions. aside from a handful of countries: the rest of the world is a shithole, many people in the rest of the world live a hard life (almost hand-to-mouth existence), the people are fucking idiots, the people have no real ambition, and they are inherently dishonest.
take for example romania, a country on the verge of eu membership. while bucharest is great, if you drive 25 minutes west you can come to towns with no running water, no flushing toilets, and electricity only provided by a gas driven generator a few hours each day. fuckin’ medieval.
the main reason why the girls spread their legs for men they consider to be effeminate suckers masquerading as walking atm machines is because they know we are unlikely to beat them and likely to feed them.
every third person in ee is a lawyer, economist, or real estate agent with a graduate degree. yet, they are utterly incapable of analysis and defending a position based upon logic and supported by facts. give these people a lsat in their own language and they’d fail miserably-- unless they stole the test the night before or bribed the proctor. my company hires the best and brightest of the universities here and most of them are only good for regurgitation and presence. yea a jap can make a tv do the running man across the room but he learned to do it while in america. he wouldn’t build jack if we didn’t give him the direction to. many foreign women have no ambition but to make babies and look pretty—even the upper-class and educated ones. fucking, cooking, and cleaning is the extent of their career plans—they just want to do it in a luxurious environment. once they are married they don’t further themselves anymore. conversely, many american women take pride in their careers and constantly seek to improve their lot in life. my first job out of college was as an analyst on the street. i thought i was rich with my total comp being about 80k a year. negative ghost rider. after uncle sam, pataki, and bloomberg got their cut i couldn’t afford the new bmw i always wanted. and i even lived in my old room on 116th street for half of the year!! the fact is that you need a double income nowadays to live good. and if you import some foreign chick she’s a financial liability because her degree and skill-set is useless in america unless she’s a nurse.
say what you want about america but we are a god fearing and honest people. these ee, la, and sea, and afr women lie, bribe, and cheat since the day they are born; it’s a necessity of life there. but once your values are formed as a child it’s hard to abandon them. do you really want a liar, morally-- well, ethically-- bankrupt person living in your home? i worked briefly in law enforcement too .do you know who perpetuated most of the complex scams and frauds? ees and las. and these people were educated and well off.
foreign women have a ghetto materialism about them. they are showy, ostentatious, and constantly seeking to one up the next girl. american women are not like that… as much.
the grass is always greener on the other side, especially for someone from a richer nation going to a poorer nation for snatch. also, if one is retired and not looking to play the game of lfe any longer then living in some developing shithole is ok with the internet and a sling box—as long as you don’t need advanced medical care. my pops found that out the hard way, but i guess he was never happier frolicking around the philippines with girls a third of his age.
conclusion: american women are not so bad if you have your shit together and want to foster success. however, it is wise to get a prenup.
bart: before i posted my diatribe i didn’t read you message. i can’t refute what you are saying, but the only alternative is to reside in a country much poorer than the one we currently live in. (although someone may say that australia doesn’t involve much of a negative tradeoff.). are most men willing to do that? i also destet the fact that aw use pussy as a crutch to get what they want after they have already committed to a relationship. funny, i actually had a terrible fight with my x-russian wife because she has bad migraines and didn’t tell me when she had them when i came home drunk and horny. she said that it was her “duty” to be with me when i wanted her. no aw would be such a trooper. but she made me feel very awful when i found out her migraines.
I watched a documentary on CNN and dateline earlier this week about an AW who dressed as a man to explore the man's world. She was shocked at how alot of AW women treated men....she stated that women had all the power. On more than a few occasions she tried to pick up a few ladies and was rejected or completely ignored. It's just a fact of life that alot of AW are just plain nasty. Unfortunately it's the men(AM) who have created these monsters.