American Women

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RN
[i]There was a study done here that said that one in six men had paid for sex. Obviously that's in Australia, but I can't see us being too different to America. [/i][/QUOTE]

Ummmm ....

It's legal in many (most?) parts of Australia and only legal in a few isolated and silly little places in the US so I rather suspect it [b] is [/b] quite different.

A quick check shows that just under 50% of Australia's population (19 million) lives in either Sydney (4.1 million), Melbourne (3.5 million) or Perth (1.4 million). Prostitution is legal, at least partially, in all three cities. To compare, the population of the only state in the US (Nevada) where prostitution is legal is well under 1% of the US's total population, [i] and [/i] prostitution is only legal in a few remote and sparsely populated counties within that state. 70% of Nevada's population is in Clark County, where prostitution is not legal. Another 20% is in Washoe County; prostitution's not legal there either.

Those Kinsey figures sound way too high to me. I do think a lot of guys would lie about it. My guess for the US, based on discussion and experience, is 20-30%. This is higher than Rubbie's 1 in 6 figure because the US is more screwed up than Oz?? Maybe??? Look at how quiet the Australia section of the board is. Is that because fewer Ozzie men go to prostitutes or because they don't need this board to be able to find them?

Let's do this scientifically. How many of you guys reading this have ever visited a prostitute? :)

it's decriminalised in sydney, legal in melbourne (although the actual number of legal brothels/workers is greatly outnumbered by the illegal ones) and it's illegal in perth. it's tolerated here though to a certain degree. but a look at the us section of this forum tells me that prostitution is alive and well in most of the united states as well - regardless of it's illegality (like my state). i would think that an american wouldn't have too much trouble finding a hooker if he really wanted one.

as for your last question - if you have a peek at the morality section, you'll see my hand is raised. *grin*

Joe - my 'statistics' would conflict with the Kinsey stuff too. I don't believe the reports that say that married men make up a high percentage of sex workers' clients.

Dickhead - By the way, Aussies don't come here because they have their own boards.

RN,

This may cost me the 'smart' compliment you gave me, but what's the difference between decriminalized and legal? Also, if it's legal, why are there illegal brothels? Are there certain services that they offer that are still considered illegal? Or do they have girls that are not tested or are illegal aliens?

generally, legalisation means the introduction of (usually extremely oppressive) laws to regulate the sex industry, and the creation of criminal laws to deal with people who work outside the legal framework. decriminalisation means the removal of all criminal sanctions against prostitution.

the answer to your second question lies in the first...the legal frameworks that are created - by people who do not understand the sex industry and thus subject it to unnecessarily extreme controls - exclude many people from the legal industry. people who use drugs, have criminal convictions, are ****, are illegal immigrants, have certain diseases, etc, can not work legally...but they still want to work, so they do it illegally. the laws also make it too expensive for legal brothels to operate, which leads to people operating illegally so that they don't have the overheads. for example, in melbourne the brothels are subjected to so many licence fees and working restrictions, that they had to up their prices and lower the girls cut of the takings. girls of course moved on to the illegal brothels, who could afford to pay them a higher cut. there are 4 times more illegal brothels than legal ones in melbourne.

i am totally opposed to legalisation. check out [url]www.iinet.net.au/~ashkara[/url] for more info.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RN
[i]It's decriminalised in Sydney, legal in Melbourne (although the actual number of legal brothels/workers is greatly outnumbered by the illegal ones) and it's illegal in Perth. It's tolerated here though to a certain degree. [/i][/QUOTE]

But on 11/16/02 you posted this, RN:

"Another example...it is LEGAL to do sex work in your own home in my state."

As we know, I haven't been to Perth, only Sydney and Melbourne. Is it now illegal in Perth as a result of that proposed legislation you were trying to defeat a while back? I thought that was defeated or withdrawn or something. Please explain.

You're right. I was talking brothels...sorry. Brothels are illegal here. Street work is illegal here. I shouldn't really have said that it was "legal" in your own home, because technically that's probably not the right term for it. Private work and escort work are really only legal by default...in that they aren't officially illegal.

And unfortunately, that Bill disappeared only to reappear slightly changed (and probably worse than it was) and get thrown straight into Parliament. We are still fighting it with tooth and nail. Under the proposed laws we will have exactly the same problems as Melbourne - where only specific things are legal, and the rest is outlawed.

So then are you really "against legalization" or are you actually against [b] regulation [/b]? As I have mentioned before, I prefer the Costa Rica model where anything two consenting adults agree to do is legal regardless of whether money changes hands or not. Although, notably, homosexual acts were only very recently decriminalized in Costa Rica.

I am completely opposed to legalisation, because to do that, they need to impose ridiculous restrictions on the industry. Regulation (depending on how it's done I guess) is a bit different. If they were to regulate the sex industry in the same way that other like businesses are regulated, I would have no problems with it. But unfortunately, they just can't seem to do that.

I support the model that they call "decriminalisation with controls", which is what happens in Sydney. For example, street work is decriminalised, BUT you are not allowed to do it within view of a dwelling, church, school, etc - to protect the rights of the general community. The controls also work the other way (to protect the rights of the industry), like in South Sydney where the councils are not allowed to refuse a brothel business application on "moral" grounds - they can only be refused if they do not comply to normal business requirements.

Everywhere that legalisation has occurred, sex workers are treated like criminals. Look at the lockdown NV brothels! Those women are treated like caged animals! Legalisation, rather than making the industry legitimate and protecting workers, always does the exact opposite. It also brands sex workers for life, because it invariably includes a licensing system, which is necessary in order to enforce the tough regulations and restrictions.

Out of interest, is it actually "legal" in Costa Rica - or is there just an absence of laws telling you NOT to do it. That's the difference that I am trying to point out. What I want is an absence of law. Sex for money between two consenting adults has no place in the Criminal Code.

This is so very far off-topic. Maybe we should move it somewhere else.

P&G,

I've got an idea. Let's make you the de facto "sheriff" and executor of what's relevant on this thread and what is not. I, for one, could certainly profit from your insightful albeit arbitrary decisions and wisdom.

Most assuredly, we could use a scholar and linguist of your caliber to impose the righteous discipline you deem proper and necessary. I look forward to your benevolent and righteous guidance. Thank you!

Ok boys - no fighting. As the reigning Queen of off-topic posts (probably the worst offender in the whole of the WSG), I have to say that, well...shit happens. Sometimes the conversation strays, sometimes you make posts to certain people in certain sections because you know they always read that section.

You all know what happens to me when testosterone starts flying around here - I get horny. And you CAN'T make me horny now, because I've just spent the last of my money on that gorgeous brunette. So stop it, ok? For my sake? ;)

Americans may not know the history geograhphy of the country, however, one has to get the complete picture before concluding on anything. Americans are the richest people on earth, Americans are the most charitable people on earth, America is one of the least corrupt nations, America is most technically advanced than any other nation, they have a superior army, and their ideals are freedon and equality for all.

The position America is now, is definately unique in world hostory, no nations before had so many things working together, say former Russia, they had stronger army, but weak economy, that was their downfall. I'm from asia and I have been in america for two yrs for software development. The first thing I notcied was there is none what so ever corruption in lower leval of administration. People mind there own business, I mean more professional, least jealeasy, and they are hardworking, more open, to new ideas. I can tell this as a fact, I think I have seen the two worlds, may be for a shorter period of time, but I can certainly differentiate.

Here in Asia, its just opposite, If wsg server was ever in china or india or any other asian country, it wouldn't have run for more than six months, here you can more openly say about American women, try saying this about Asian women in there country, all the save womenhood organisation will knock you down and you will be
behind bars for a year.

Nothing will work here, democracy and freedom is for name sake, here every educated person knows the geography of the country well enough, but when they graduate and get some higher job, they will do what ever in their means to make extra money.

Corruption is a way of life for educated, geographically correct person, everyone from the highest politician to meanest businessman, is up to rob his own countrymen, chronic corruption is the way of life. no freedom, no job, chronic underfunding in every project. They cheat you day in and day out, and you may not even know it.

The contrast in comparision of Asia and America, is enough for a 1000
page article. An american may not know the geography of his country, but in his field of study, he will be master. They are much more practical, professional, they are least jealous, least corrupt than most countries, they control
their emotions, thats much positive points.

All this talk of America lookin for Iraqs oil reserves is stupid, America was richest country in the world before the begining of 19th century, even before we had automobiles. Even if Iraq does not give oil to America still they will be the richest.

Anyways, all these oil rich nations are ruled by dictators, and the common people hardly get the money, the perfect case is Saudi Arabia, there is high
unemployment there, and the youth with no jobs become religious fanatics, thats the reason why 15 hijackers of sep 11 were from Saudi Arabia.

Saddam or no Saddam, not even one inch iraq is going to change, the money generated from oil will go to the select top leaders. It does not matter to get knowledge on one hand, and exploit ones own country on the other, thats wht is happening in Asian countries, or for that most of other countires. its better we judge taking this into account.

RN,

In lieu of my unlimted respect for you and your opinions, I will desist. I was only trying to communicate with Darkseid.