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[QUOTE=DJ FourMoney]
All I can convay is my personal experience and while very, very limited internationally, it can't be THAT much different than the women I have met over the years that have traveled to visit or even stay in the US. [/QUOTE]
DJ 4M,
I think you are incorrect. It CAN be THAT much different! I perceive an error in your thinking. Your experiences with foreign women, by your own admission, are primarily with visitors to the US. It has NOT been you visiting the foreign woman's country and interacting with her there. Consequently, there are 2 logical errors in your post to CBGB below.
The first is that those women who have the means and the inclination to travel to the US are NOT a representative sample of the women in their home countries. You seem to believe they are. Regular inter-continental travelers generally have more disposable income and fewer financial responsibilities than non-regular intercontinental travelers. They, generally, also are willing to take more risks, or are capable of better evaluating risk, than non-travellers.
The second logical error is that the behavior of a person outside his own country is NOT identical to his behavior within his own country. You seem to believe that it is. I will use us men as an example. We go to other countries and engage in monger behavior. Do we, would we, could we, engage in identical monger behavior here in the US in the cities we live in ???? NO!!! The same applies to the foreign women you are meeting here in the US. Their behavior as tourists/visitors to the US is very different from what their behavior is in their home countries. To see what that is you must go to their home country and observe it directly.
To sum, your interactions with foreign women here in the US are not representative of foreign women generally because the women you are meeting are not representative of foreign women generally, and their behavior here is not representative of their general regular behavior. When you go to their countries and interact with them there, you will see a much more representative behavior towards you. You will see what proportion of the travelling woman are to the general poulation. You will see what proportion the risk-takers / better risk evaluators are to the general poulation. You will see how the general population treats Americans when they are visitors to their own countries. You will see how the general population treats Blacks. You will see how the general population reacts to you when you are mongering for sex and when you are looking for a girlfriend / wife. Remember now, they will KNOW that you will be ogling THEIR daughters, THEIR sisters, THEIR cousins, THEIR nieces, THEIR friends in THEIR country!
Lastly, local women have their reputations to guard. They will be MUCH pickier about the men they have sex with or are even seen with, because they might need to explain it to someone they know. Visitors have no such constraints. What happens in Vegas, STAYS in Vegas!!!
Also remember that Europe is having a crisis of racial/religious/ethnic identity right now. There are slews of African immigrants in all European countries, many working as prostititues or in organized crime gangs. There is a flood of immigrants from the recently admitted EU countries and applicant countries, such as Turkey. Muslims are angry over the recent cartoons of Mohammad and the anti-terror security measures directed at them. France has had difficulties with the enforcement of rules prohibiting religious clothing in public schools (ie head wear). Jean-Marie Le Pen is popular again. There was the murder of a filmmaker in the Netherlands 2 years ago over a religious film. Germany still has problems with racist skinheads. This is the cauldron that you, a Black American, is plunging into in search of pussy. Those European women are going to use it and you to get the security they want the same way that AW use it and us to get the security they want.
I think your upcoming trip is going to be a real education for you!
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G90
your last post told me nothing I didn't already know (not bashing you, BTW). Whenever I travel overseas, I never get my hopes up, but I DO take unexpected surprises as the gifts they are. Regarding the xenophobic behavior you described, that can also be seen here in the US, but on a much subtler level where race is concerned. Being a black American overseas is at times, doubly pleasurable or perilous, depending upon where you are. It is an INSTANT way to weed out those that you don't wanna hook up with (short term fuck or long term relationship). DJ4M, just relax on your travels and don't EXPECT your goal to drop into your lap. I've found that trying to force your goal to happen is like trying to punch smoke. Sit back, relax, and the smoke will "envelope" YOU.
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DJ4M:
All mongers, regardless of race, class or creed, accept a certain level of risk when on an excursion in search of pussy. Depending on your destination specific threats may vary in prominence; however, disease, violence and theft are always real possibilities.
Racist attitudes in Europe are not greater than those you can find in the deep Southern states of the USA. Slavery has left a legacy of acrimony and distrust between black and white in this country. Since racism was not institutionalized in Europe to the degree that it has been here you will most likely find the women more open to being stuffed by some black balls.
Take Sinanju Master's advice and leave any preconceived notions that you might have about your destination at home. Give the people you meet a chance to be judged on the way they treat you and not according to media reports and rumors about their countries.
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Germany
"Take Sinanju Master's advice and leave any preconceived notions that you might have about your destination at home. Give the people you meet a chance to be judged on the way they treat you and not according to media reports and rumors about their countries"
That is great advice.
G90 is also right about women behaving differently on holiday than they would at home as well, however German women really are pretty laid back about interracial dating, at least superficially I regularly see interracial couples when in Germany. There is also a certain degree of reverse trophy hunting going on, as within certain social circles having a black boyfriend is considered pretty cool, or at least something to be tried out of curiousity... the same goes for German guys who lust after Brazilians, Cubans and their perception of "exotic fruit".
One comment on the GI effect...
Around US bases, or where US bases used to be, there are white German women who exclusively date black guys... whether or not you want anything to do with them is up to you. These girls are called "mud sharks", its what the black GIs called these girls anyway, and they do get around. If your female contacts speak English too well, or with a black accent, and comes from the areas of Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Wuerzburg or Kaiserslautern, I'd at least be "cautious" of her past, especially if she has kids. There are plenty of "fatherless" mulatto kids in Germany, which is just as much a result of GI "fire and forget "attitudes as the German's religious belief in social welfare and feminism. I'm not demonizing these girls, but it is a real phenomenon in certain parts of Germany.
If you come to Germany with an open attitude, chances are you'll be very well-received. Germans aren't as cold or xenophobic as often perceived and there certainly aren't many skinheads in WESTERN Germany. In bigger cities being black isnt such a novelty anymore at all actually. American blacks (or UK blacks for that matter) will generally be much better received than off the boat Africans, who are generally viewed as drug dealers, freeloaders and troublesome... stereotypes they seem to have no problem living up to.
As for pros treating every customer equally, I wouldnt count on it. I've been to FKKs and seen some black guys being purposely avoided by certain girls, especially Russians and Ukrainians. This doesnt mean all EE girls are going to avoid black guys, but dont be surprised if some do. Germans and most other girls, such as Dominicans or Brazilians, are considerably more liberal.... but I doubt you are coming to Europe to bang sistas... :)
You sound like you are going to mix both non-pro and pro pursuits, which is definitely the best way to go.
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[QUOTE=Chocha Monger]DJ4M:
All mongers, regardless of race, class or creed, accept a certain level of risk when on an excursion in search of pussy. Depending on your destination specific threats may vary in prominence; however, disease, violence and theft are always real possibilities.
Racist attitudes in Europe are not greater than those you can find in the deep Southern states of the USA. Slavery has left a legacy of acrimony and distrust between black and white in this country. Since racism was not institutionalized in Europe to the degree that it has been here you will most likely find the women more open to being stuffed by some black balls.
Take Sinanju Master's advice and leave any preconceived notions that you might have about your destination at home. Give the people you meet a chance to be judged on the way they treat you and not according to media reports and rumors about their countries.[/QUOTE]
My expectation have always been low as to not be disapointed by something unless it was REALLY disapointing and out of control.
My slate is clean, its a new experience and I'm looking forward too it.
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Excellent
Then, prepared are you, young Padawan to undertake the mongering journey! May the Force be with you!
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[QUOTE=Sinanju Master]Then, prepared are you, young Padawan to undertake the mongering journey! May the Force be with you![/QUOTE]
I shall not disgrace the family honor....
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Honor
The only acceptible way to uphold your family honour is .....
Have a ton of fun AND take a lot of pictures!
Rock
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Todays quote
A successful man is one who makes more money than his wife can spend.
A successful woman is one who can find herself such a man.
Rock
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German women are probably the most open Western women when it comes to mixed race dating. Canadian and Australian women might come up to close to them. Dutch women seem to have similar patterns. Still if you want a woman who will really wait on you, the best place is the former Eastern bloc, Latin America, and Asia.
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Europeans would see other races as a novelty and they would love to sample a person of another race. Here, in the US, not only is racism deep rooted in AWs, but they ar tired of seeing so many people of other nationalities flock to the US for opportunity. There are much more unwary people from other lands that come to the US because it is overhyped by their media and Europe and other lands are less popular. Since fewer people of other races go to Europe, Europeans don't have enough foreigners and it is easier for a person of a different race to hook up with their women. However, there are exceptions that are similar to the US attitudes. Tirks are disliked in Germany because there are so many of them. Same problem as the blacks and Asians in the US. There are so many that American Caucasians are tired of them! Also American Blacks and Asians are tired of each other. The Jews were many in germany back during World War II so the Germans also got tired of them and hated them to the point they wanted to kill them. We have the same problem here in the US with the KKK because they see minorities as a threat of domination in the US because they think there are too many of us.
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Growing Up to Be Boys
I'd say feminism is also the cause of Sex Prison in the USA.
Growing Up to Be Boys
By Lakshmi Chaudhry, In These Times. Posted March 23, 2006.
When CBS unveiled its short-lived series "Love Monkey" in January, leading male television critics could barely contain their enthusiasm. The New York Times' Alessandra Stanley was far less impressed, especially with its lead male character, thirty-something music producer Tom Farrell, whose "endearing foibles" included "self-absorption, wanting what he cannot have and an inability to commit."
Based on the eponymous 2004 novel by Kyle Smith, "Love Monkey" offered the latest iteration of "lad-lit," a genre popularized by the likes of Nick Hornby, whose novels inevitably featured a confused, neurotic, discontented man-boy being dragged kicking and screaming into adulthood, usually by his girlfriend.
But where "lad lit" authors disguise the dumbing-down of adult masculinity with witty prose, advertising executives are less subtle. Commercials for cell phones, fast food, beer and deodorants offer up an infantilized version of masculinity that has become ubiquitous since the rise of "lad" culture in the '90s. These grown men act like boys -- and are richly rewarded for it. A recent cell phone ad, for example, features a guy who responds to being dumped by his girlfriend -- because "you're never going to grow up" -- by playing, on his cell phone, an '80s pop song that tells her to get lost. Of course, this immediately earns him the attention of a younger, prettier woman walking by.
While these ads pretend to mirror a male fantasy -- say, of walking down the wedding aisle armed with a six-pack of Bud Light -- they in fact reflect a corporate executive's dream customer: a man-boy who is more likely to remain faithful to their product than to his wife.
This shift in the dominant image of manhood is most evident in the evolution of the so-called "Family Man." The benevolent patriarch of the '50s has been replaced by an adult teenager who spends his time sneaking off to hang out with the boys, eyeing the hot chick over his wife's shoulder, or buying cool new toys. Like a fourteen-year-old, this guy can't be trusted with the simplest of domestic tasks, be it cooking dinner for the kids or shopping for groceries.
These pop culture images are all the more striking because they directly contradict the experiences of men in the real world. Women may still bear the greater burden of domestic work, but American males today do more at home than their fathers, and are happy doing it. According to the Families and Work Institute, the percentage of college-educated men who said they wanted to move into jobs with more responsibility fell from 68 percent to 52 percent between 1992 and 2002. A Radcliffe Public Policy Center report released in 2000 found that 70 percent of men between the ages of 21 to 39 were willing to sacrifice pay and lose promotions in exchange for a work schedule that allowed them to spend more time with their families.
Yet popular culture continues to fetishize the traditional, '50s model of masculinity, but in a distilled form -- kick-ass machismo stripped of the accompanying values of honor, duty and loyalty. We seem to have carried with us the unreconstructed sexism of the past -- the objectification of women, inability to connect or communicate -- but discarded its redeeming virtues. Where traditional masculinity embraced marriage, children and work as rites of passage into manhood, the 21st century version shuns them as emasculating, with the wife cast in the role of the castrating mother. The result resembles a childlike fantasy of manhood that is endowed with the perks of adulthood -- money, sex, freedom -- but none of its responsibilities.
At least part of this image is rooted in a real cultural trend, according to State University of New York at Stony Brook sociology professor Michael Kimmel. His upcoming book, Guyland, argues that men "are resisting becoming men longer and longer," doing their best to postpone all the decisions that mark the passage into adulthood -- getting a job, moving out of their parents' home, getting married, and having kids -- in order to enjoy the lad lifestyle of "online porn, drinking, and poker." This trend has its big-screen avatar in the hero of the film "Failure To Launch," which stars Matthew McConaughey as a thirty-something slacker whose desperate parents "hire the gorgeous and talented girl of his dreams to get him to move out of the house."
More significantly, however, this resistance to adulthood is closely associated with a market-driven consumerist culture that feeds and sustains a Peter Pan version of masculinity. "To be grown up is to be settled, comfortable, stable, responsible, and secure," Kimmel says. "Those are bad conditions for advertising, which depends on our sense of insecurity, anxiety, and incompleteness."
The market also has little time for the old-fashioned male virtue of self-denial, the imperative to do the "right thing" at the expense of pleasure. A stoic John Wayne has been replaced by the "metrosexual," a man who is all about self-indulgence and defined almost entirely by his wallet. At the beauty salon, designer boutique or exclusive health club, a metrosexual spends, therefore he is.
Susan Faludi foreshadowed the rise of the metrosexual in her 1999 book, Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man, which describes an "ornamental culture" that tells men "manhood is displayed, not demonstrated. The internal qualities once said to embody manhood -- sure-footedness, inner strength, confidence of purpose -- are merchandised to men to enhance their manliness. What passes for the essence of masculinity is being extracted and bottled and sold back to men. Literally, in the case of Viagra."
Before it was hijacked by marketing gurus to peddle body lotions and pedicures, British author Mark Simpson coined the word "metrosexual" in 1994 to connote an "epochal shift" to a narcissistic form of mediated masculinity; a man who "has clearly taken himself as his own love object and pleasure as his sexual preference."
Contrary to popular understanding -- fueled by conservatives who are fond of caricaturing liberals as well-coiffed and manicured wimps -- Simpson does not define the metrosexual as particularly feminine or even gay, but as "a collector of fantasies about the male sold to him by the media." Thus George W. Bush strutting around on an aircraft carrier is every bit as metrosexual as a teen idol like Orlando Bloom. In a media universe ruled by marketing gods, "the traditional forms and sufferings of stoic, self-denying, self-sacrificing old-fashioned masculinity are merely cutesy, quaint props for the new, aestheticised, moisturized self-regarding variety." In the new millenium, it's more important to look like a hero than act like one -- as John Kerry could well testify.
That this market-driven narcissism finds expression in an adolescent version of masculinity should be no surprise. "In males, narcissism is something that has been associated with immaturity. Classically, it's something men are supposed to abandon to become adult males," Simpson says. "Today, consumerism tells all males that … they never need abandon their narcissism. That they never need grow up. Just so long as they buy the right products."
This isn't good news for either men or women. By defining domestic chores literally as "homework," the teen slacker version of masculinity offers no respite for working women struggling to balance their lives. And if adult responsibilities are defined as emasculating, then it's no wonder that popular culture now defines "commitment" solely as a woman's goal.
Domesticity may have always been a feminine realm, but marriage and children were once defined as integral to the traditional gender roles of both men and women. Today, it's the woman who is cast in the role of caveman, eager to club some unsuspecting, reluctant male on his head and drag him to the altar. While progressives and feminists have rightly championed a woman's right to reject marriage and motherhood, they rarely address the consequences of living in a culture where pair-bonding and parenting -- the basic processes that form the foundation of all societies -- are constructed as the antithesis of masculinity.
As Neil Chethik, author of the newly published book VoiceMale: What Husbands Really Think About Their Marriages, Their Wives, Sex, Housework, and Commitment, found, most American men -- the flesh-and-blood variety -- embrace their roles as fathers and husbands. "I found in my research that the values of duty, honor, and taking responsibility are far from forgotten by men in our culture," Chethik says. "Certainly, most men struggle to fulfill the ideals they set for themselves in this area. But they recognize that being a 'real man' requires that they are honest and respectful and willing to sacrifice. I saw this among men who worked at jobs they didn't love, who took care of an ill spouse or child, who helped in their communities without recognition or compensation. There are millions of such men."
American men may be doing their best to figure out what it means to be a man in the 21st century, but it's no accident that these men -- and more importantly, their sons -- aren't getting much help from the larger culture. "Consumerism wants to make us as atomized as possible -- because the more individualized we are the better consumers we are," says Simpson. "This is why masculinity is so fragmented today and incoherent -- and irresponsible. It used to be the tradition. Literally passed down from father to son. But we live in a society where tradition stands in the way of profit. So bye-bye daddy."
Discussions of masculinity on both the left and right inevitably circle around women's equality, either as a curse or boon to men. Where some argue that the women's movement has freed men from the straightjacket of traditional machismo, others have blamed it for depriving them of their identity. Yet the greatest threat to modern manhood may lie elsewhere -- in the flickering images on our television screen, bought and paid for by corporate America. Feminism may have sparked the battle over gender roles, but its outcome may well be determined by market forces determined to make voracious consumers of us all.
Lakshmi Chaudhry is a senior editor at In These Times and a former senior editor of AlterNet.
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[QUOTE=darkseid]Europeans would see other races as a novelty and they would love to sample a person of another race.[/quote]Hahaha, what a bunch of garbage! No races are "novelty" to Europeans and no women are interested to mix for sake of mixng. Someone on the forum mentioned German women and black GI. I bet there exist inter-racial relationships in the U.S too, but what kind of women are we talking about? Europe is not much different that the U.S in this case.
[QUOTE=darkseid]Since fewer people of other races go to Europe, Europeans don't have enough foreigners and it is easier for a person of a different race to hook up with their women.[/Quote]Ok Sherlock, let me enlighten you. A LOT of "other races" come to Europe, but just as the U.S, most come from neighbouring regions, that is Mideast and northern Africa. Moreover, south Asians prefer emigrate to the UK, because they for most part already speak some English. Corresponding goes for former French colonies.
Finally, your conculsion is very naive, but fairly amusing. It's NOT easier for you to hook up with European women because you are of "other races". And you are not a rarity because you are non-white. Sounds like you have never been to Europe.
[QUOTE=darkseid]However, there are exceptions that are similar to the US attitudes. Tirks are disliked in Germany because there are so many of them. Same problem as the blacks and Asians in the US. There are so many that American Caucasians are tired of them![/quote]With this analogy, Europeans should be sick and tired of Germans, because Germans are most numerous nation in Europe, and they are crowding Mediterranean beaches. First of all, Turks are less popular among Germans because they are different, and don't live German lifestyle. Many are out of work and prone to be involved in shady business. At least this is what avergage German believes. Again, you can see the very same socio-economic pattern in the U.S. Exchange Turks for... [whoever unpopular]. You can blame it on failed intergration policy, or on human intolerance in general.
[QUOTE=darkseid]The Jews were many in germany back during World War II so the Germans also got tired of them and hated them to the point they wanted to kill them.[/quote]There lived more Jews in countries like Russia or Poland and it neither Russians or Poles started the genocide. There were other reasons why Nazi-Germany acted like it did, but that's different story.
[QUOTE=darkseid]We have the same problem here in the US with the KKK because they see minorities as a threat of domination in the US because they think there are too many of us.[/QUOTE]The majority of Americans consists of minorities in first place, so the KKK must catch up in today's fast-paced world.
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huh
Cyberdas: "I'd say feminism is also the cause of Sex Prison in the USA."
I give up. Probably a true statement, but what part of your attached article has anything to do with it?
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I guess he means that today in the USA, women call the shots and ration the sex supply whereas in other countries, men can get it almost anywhere. If it is not available for free, they can always pay for it. Hence the prohibition of all brothels in the USA because the moral majority are mostly women and the men they control such as our "beloved" president George W. Bush. Thus, the USA has become a sex prison!! We have been castrated by metrosexualism by the feminist dominated media and have forgone manhood.