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Darkseid -- I didn't actually say that rich people aren't snobs. As a matter of fact, most rich people I've ever met HAVE been snobs. I think the fact that rich women won't date you is a different situation entirely. It doesn't matter what you look like or what nationality you are - there is still a very clearly defined class system in most societies. As a penniless single mother, rich men don't give me the time of day. Neither do rich women. (A hilarious side note to that, is that the only time I was ever treated with respect by rich people, was as a hooker! We're all equals when we're butt naked and panting. LOL) Rich people have their own dating issues they have to deal with - in particular, the prospect of gold-diggers. If you're not rich as well, then there is a chance you may be a leech. I wouldn't be too concerned about rich girls giving you the flick.
[i]"Women here want a SPECIFIC men_ one of the same race, tall, rich, and handsome, (and sometimes of the same religion)."[/i]
So are you telling me that men don't demand the same things? That men will sleep with anything that has two legs and a heartbeat? That's so not true. Men are fussy too. And I believe that both men and women have the right to be. It's one thing to want free and accessible sex for all - it's another to expect us all to sleep with people that we are not attracted to.
I only have one 'rule' as far as attraction goes (and you're not going to like this one very much!) I will not date short men. Why? Because in heels I am nearly 6 foot tall, and walking around with a short man makes me feel like Big Bird. BUT, I also know of many short men who would never date ME either, because I would make them feel like a gnome. I don't have a problem with that. There are also men who will not date me because I am a single Mum, because I don't have big boobs, because I'm over 25, because I'm a redhead not a blonde and/or because I am not the same social status as they are. I don't have a problem with that either! Ok, so feminism may make it harder for you to APPROACH women...but even if feminism were to disappear tomorrow, there would still be many women who are not attracted to you for one reason or another.
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>So are you telling me that men don't demand the same things? That men will sleep with anything that has two legs and a heartbeat? That's so not true. Men are fussy too.
Sleeping with anything that has two legs and a heartbeat and being fussy are not necessarily connected concepts, and they don't necessarily connect to each other in a timely fashion. :D Particularly for men. When the little head starts yapping, which can hapen before there's anyone or anything in the vicinity to yap to, sometimes it drowns out everything else.
I agree that most people have a "type" they are interested in, one way or another. Sometimes it's just how we're wired and how the chemicals work. Can't take it all too personally, as by and large it has nothing to do with you as a person -- a concept that should find its way someday into American feminism's understanding of men, as well.
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Hey -- that sort of behaviour is not confined to to the male of the species. I have woken up to some real doozies in my time!! It's amazing how different a person looks in a dark nightclub when you're drunk and horny! LOL
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by RN
[i]That men will sleep with anything that has two legs and a heartbeat? That's so not true. Men are fussy too.[/i][/QUOTE]
Well, I am not fussy but I do have one additional requirement beyond what you mention. Any guesses what it is? Hint: Change one letter in one of the words in my first sentence.
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Well I'm guessing it's either 'hot' or 'hussy' or 'pussy'...coz I'm presuming it probably wouldn't be bug, hate or shat. (Then again...it could be 'sell'. Or perhaps sell AND pussy? heh heh)
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. . . A lot of talk about social class and wealth . . .
Question:
Would you prefer to date a rich woman (or man) or a poor woman, all things being EQUAL? That's an easy one for me. I'd rather have more money than less. Money is not everything but it does represent freedom . . . to do as you like, when you like and where you like.
And for a woman this is a MUCH stronger desire than for the male. Status and wealth is probably the #1 turn-on for most women older than about 22. It is genetic - to care for her offspring- and exists in every culture over 1000's of years as well as in the animal world. No sense bbitching about it because it is NOT going to change. But I have resented this fact for much of my life. I always wanted a woman to love me - not my job, or my education or my bank account. And at times I often misrepresented myself in clubs or discos, saying I worked at a gas station pumping gas. Stupid idea!!! Today I'm a bit older and wiser. . . and none of this stuff bothers me. I realize that the guy bragging about his job or car may be an asshole but with women it often is effective-unfortunately.
But the attraction is not simply a gold-diggers love of financial freedom. It is a search for stability, judgement, leadership . . . People with money and good jobs are usually better educated, make better decisons, and are more dependable, all very important qualities. All these things run together and wind up being more important than how you look or how big your dick is.
Lenin: Comrade, I don't think things like education, manners or a good job is something you or I should do JUST to attract women. You do it for yourself . . . but in the process women will take notice and things will improve dramatically. And I don't buy your argument about it being more competion for a limited supply of pussy. The supply is not very limited. And most women have a minimum standard, below which you will get nothing. She would prefer to stay home alone with a vibrator.
Dick Head: You often talk about about not wanting to work, of wanting to earn a minimum amount, just enough for booze, dope and hookers. That attitude will NOT make you a chick magnet! And whether you tell them or not - and a hope you do not - women can smell that a mile away. And it won't matter WHERE you live, no woman anywhere is looking for that magic combination.
Peace, -P
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PK, that is bullshit. I never said I didn't want to work. I have been working since I was 14 and supporting myself since I was 15. What I said was I had an opportunity to earn enough money in a few months to survive in a different country and that I didn't need much money. It was about being able to relocate, not about not wanting to work. One is not ALLOWED to work in a foreign country in most cases, at least not initially. Well, guess what? I'm going to do it. AND I will have to work VERY hard the few months I will need to be in the US in order to do it. Now stop misquoting me.
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DH,
Maybe I misread some of your posts or I'm confusing you with someone else . . . but you DO describe yourself as "just a lazy Dickhead" and talk about not having much money or enough ambition for some women. Also of not having a "real job" in a long time in some of those B.A. posts. Actually, I thought from the Argentina posts that you are proud to be the wild and crazy, hard drinking, streetfighting guy(?). Whatever . . . I don't know you except though your words. And I'm not judging you one way or the other. To each his own . . .
But my comments still stand in general, whether or not they apply to you specifically. Lack of ambition, stability or money combined with alcohol/drugs and mongering will never be the ticket to a long-term relationship in any country. But then this isn't a relationship forum so who cares. Peace.
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Yeah, PK, I think you just misunderstood some of what I said and it is understandable, and misread some other stuff, which is less understandable and more irritating. We in my profession refer to it as not being a "real job" as in we are doing what we do as opposed to a 9-to-5, 12 months a year gig. It doesn't mean we are not working. Think of it as similar to Don Zimmer saying he has never had a "real job," if you know who that is. I can see how you might have misunderstood. And the "lazy Dickhead" is more my approach to women and getting them as opposed to my approach to working and supporting myself. Also understandable that you might have misunderstood.
And you were probably reading OttoGraham's posts about my approach to streetwalkers, which HE misinterpreted and misquoted me about any kind of fighting (really, he didn't even MISquote me but rather leaped to a totally unsubstantiated conclusion. There is absolutely nothing in any of my BA posts that relates to fighting or violence in any way). I do NOT like to fight and seldom do but if anyone fucks with me as has happened a VERY few times in my mongering and other traveling experience, I will attempt to finish them off right quick. I have a high success ratio but have taken a very few ass kickings in the process of these very few incidencts. However, I said NOTHING in Buenos Aires about streetfighting and I responded to him about that but Jackson pulled the posts due to some trepidation on his part about a "flame war." I did not completely understand that but it is his board and a great one so fine. I got over it fast.
Wild and crazy? You be the judge. Hard drinking? Yes, but no DUIs or arrests or problems with it so far. Lack of ambition? You are probably talking about my recent post in response to VTs question about relationships. Read a little closer. That was in my youth and now I have a graduate degree and a professional license and a responsible (if thankfully not 9-to-5) job that I enjoy and am proud of. It just doesn't pay all that well and that is society's misplaced priorities rather than any lack on my part, I feel. Also, I think I have said I don't MAKE enough money for some women rather than saying I don't HAVE enough money although I am not rich by any means. Here I am less sure and if I am mistaken please feel free to produce a direct quote.
This is in fact the second time I have issues with you misquoting me as you inaccurately said that I spent 25% of my income on booze and weed when in fact the numbers I gave were 25% of a greatly reduced hypothetical income should I choose to expatriate myself in a particular way. That you just flat misread, and misquoted, and it irritated me. Now I have found a better way to expatriate myself where it will be more like 10% should I choose to pursue both my enjoyment of weed and my enjoyment of alcohol. Perhaps that is still a high number to you.
Lack of stability???? Doesn't apply to me for a few more months. Same job, same house, same everything for several years and fixing to chuck it all in frustration over politics and lifestyle isssues, with the whole American Woman thing a distant but still significant third. And yes, all those things that you mention are minuses in the eye of the average women looking for a mate (or LTR, in your terms). I am not looking for a mate, and haven't been for a while. Maybe someday I will again. I am open to it under the right circumstances as I explained but I am not "looking" for it.
So if you want to quote me, please do so directly and do not put words in my mouth. I have enough words coming out of my mouth as it is.
Peace, DH.
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Please, somebody give his opinion about communication problem here in North America. It is huge problem but looks like nobody want discuss it. I repost again.
I notice something wrong about American culture right away when I came here. When I ask somebody how you are? Usually answer is “Fine!” or “Great!” and I see stupid optimistic smile. It is like everybody around you happy and has no problems. In Russia it would be insult to answer this way.
In Russia it would mean that the respondent is hiding his feeling behind politeness. In Russia in most cases you suppose to say “so-so” and to give small hint about the problem what you have because everybody have problems.
Or if you are “Fine” you at least should give short explanation why
It looks like American culture right from foundation have emotional communication flaw. It forces you to cut emotional communication with others people right in the beginning of the meeting. From DH and darkseid posts it is clear that emotional communication here so bad what people hardly know reason why somebody commits suicide.
If somebody lives in New York City I recommend you to go to Russian restaurant. Don’t hide your feeling. Just tell them, for example, that you are fed up with American women and you are not going to believe have many Russian friends you going to make just in one hour.
Another example, In other countries in dance flour they have both fast and slow music.
Here in most places music so loud that it impossible to hear each other.
And almost no slow music to invite, dance and talk with women.
It always frustrated my friends and me.
Are managers of these places assholes or what?
Do they not understand that they cut opportunity for people to find each other?
It seems that most of American so unskillful in communication that they can not create right atmosphere for that.
If men have more chances communicate with women they easier could break her barrier of stupidity.
Jak, I made small post about Black Sea in Russian/Other section
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it is hard to communicate in an american nightclub. i have to shout in the girl's ear to talk to her and when i come out, i am almost deaf from the loud music. they even play the same house music imported from europe but in a european club, the music is lower or they lower the music in the bar area so you can hold a decent conversation with the girl. in these clubs in america, they think louder music is better but i think not. i had to write notes on little post-it papers to communicate even in the bar area. in fact, i also have to scream at the bartender to even order a drink! i back lenin's point of communication problems in america. also, american women tend to listen to there friends more than they do their husbands or boyfriends. this problem contributes to the high divorce rate we have in america. also certain things cannot be communicated to women from men in america like the subject of sex. in europe, i find them more open to sexual discussion even between men and women. when i discuss something sexual at work, my co-workers always remind me, "careful, there's a woman in the office!". i forgot that i was not in europe anymore so i accidentally blurted out a joke relating to sex. the women in the office looked at me with disgust and offense and i had to apologize. i discussed sex with a european woman and she was more open to discussing it. i even told the same "disgusting" sex joke and she laughed. censorship and prudity in this way contributes to the lack of communication problem.
rn, i do agree with you that everyone has preferences like i don't like women above 150 lbs (i could date a transitional fat-skinny but not fat). however, my post makes the point that american women are so fussy that their requirements are more severe. it is the way they are brought up. their parents- rich or poor- tell them to look for the richest man alive who is tall and handsome. i have a steady job and living with me gives security but yet american women even the ones who are shorter than me can't overlook the fact that i am only 5'4" tall and that they are taller than me when they wear their 6" to 1' heels. sheesh!
i am not ugly but the only thing ugly about me is my height. however, when women date me, they could leave their uncomfortable 6" to 1' high heels home which they usually have to wear for taller men and wear their regular shoes which are much more comfortable for them anyway. some foreign women see this as an advantage why can't american women? the brazilian girl i met admitted she didn't like heels and liked the fact that she can wear her regular more comfortable shoes around me. some american women are only 5'3" anyway yet they wear 1' heels because their boyfriends are 6' tall. a lot of women complain of the discomfort of high heels. also if they are being chased by dogs or a [url=http://isgprohibitedwords.info?CodeWord=CodeWord126][CodeWord126][/url], women can't run fast in them. maybe women wear these heels because men might have the same height prejudice as women but would date them with only the condition that they wear these things. i personally don't like women wearing heels because a woman my height in heels would make me seem like a dwarf so heels are a threat to me.
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Lenin, you're right that Americans have a veneer of social politeness that acts to distance us from each other. I think it also acts as a way to not have direct conflict or disagreement. I've posted in other areas my surprise when I first started travelling overseas and would murmur polite Americanism's like "in a while" to try to blow someone off, and they would take it literally as a promise and expect me to come over. We do it so often and so naturally that we don't even realize it, and it's nothing anyone learns with specific intent, as it's just part ofthe culture, in the same way in many countries direct confrontation in conversation is unthinkable. The American approach is not like, say, the Asian one of not saying anything to avoid upsetting someone, it's instead to push the issue away. Better? Worse? Who knows.
I do know that I've been with many Americans overseas who find it overwhelming to deal with direct response on such a regular basis, because they're not used to it. If you tell a vendor "no" here that's generally the end of the issue, whereas in other countries that's an opening volley, and an invitation for them to question the way you're living your life and your values because you don't choose to buy from them. That might be direct communication, but it's an intrusive pain in the ass that has nothing to do with exchange of emotional information and everything to do with getting money out of someone's pocket. The so-called "open communication" I see in many countries is simply a different social approach -- not really emotional communication on any deeper level, but a particular way of establishing safe emotional ground on which to comfortably lie to and misunderstand each other.
There's lots of emotional communication going on here, it simply happens in different ways than it does in other places, as is typical country by country. Because we don't do it the same way Russians do doesn't necessarily mean anything -- America's hardly the only place where it's unclear why someone commits suicide, and is it somehow better that in another country everyone is clear why someone put a bullet in their brain, where here we're surprised and without explanation? Shouldn't I be questioning true depth and usefulness of the "emotional communication" of the other place, if they know someone's suicidal but do nothing to help or make anything change? Given that the general rate isn't significantly higher than many other places I don't know what kind of conclusion you're drawing here anyway. Dead is dead -- with or without warning or a note.
And if you want a place with slower and quieter music, get out of the discos and go to, say, a jazz club -- jazz is, after all, an American invention, and it's plenty quiet enough to meet and talk to women. Loud places are popular because rejection communicated at the top of someone's lungs still gets drowned out by the background. And the managers of these places are not necessarily assholes -- they are delivering what people want and pay to come in and get.
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JZ . . .
I love jazz and have gone to jazz clubs throughout the world. But the odds of finding someone there is VERY low. A great place to take a date, but a terrible place to find a date.
The discos are for non-verbal communication . . . namely dancing and little more. But dancing is a time-honored mating ritual practiced virtually everywhere. I'm a slow learner and avoided dance clubs for many years - another stupid mistake . . .
Meet her at a disco and take her to a jazz club.
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Crowded discos are an excellent way to initiate body contact. Lead her towards the bar - let her get pushed against you by the crush of thirsty patrons. Lead her to the dance floor - push up against her to avoid the flailing arms of the guy who is under the mistaken impression that the E he just took, gave him the talents of Michael Jackson. Who needs conversation? You can talk over breakfast! ;)
Darkseid -- I am 5'9" tall. Even without heels, I am taller than quite a few men that I know. Women don't wear heels to be the same height as their boyfriends - they wear them because they make our legs look 10 feet long and that makes us feel damn sexy.
Honey, your height seems to be a terribly big concern to you. I totally understand that - I am not 'blessed' in the boob department and grew up constantly being compared to my three overly busty best friends, so I really can empathise - but you have to realise that your height is not WHO YOU ARE. Could it be your insecurities that are holding you back with women? Do you talk yourself into believing they are going to reject you, before they actually do? I get the feeling that you are probably very hard on yourself - and low self confidence (or self pity) in a man, is much more of a turn-off to women than height is. I think you need to think some more about what you have to offer, rather than all the things you feel you are lacking. Stop thinking about what women are doing wrong, and focus on what YOU are doing RIGHT. You can't change the fact that you're 5'4", any more than I can change the fact that I'm nearly 30. We just have to deal with it. Try and focus on the good stuff babe, before all this height stuff does your head in. :)
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RN, you are right in that my insecurity is my lack of height and that is why I hate when women wear high heels. Where some guys have a fetish for heels, I've always had a fear of them because of the height issue. My lack of height has always been a disadvantage when trying to meet any American women (tall or short) or taller European women. South American women don't seem to mind, even the taller ones. Asian women are shorter than me anyway so my lack of height doesn't threaten me in that department. If a woman I date wants to wear high heels however, I won't stop them from doing so but it would make them look taller than me in public and height is a BIG issue here in America. Heads turn when they see a shorter guy with a taller woman. In other countries where people are more open minded, short guys with tall women is accepted.