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[QUOTE=Optimist;1935640]Widespread cheating is a different matter. If successful it can spread and make girls unhappy with 50 euro sessions, since honest girls might feel they are being stupid. This is especially when the girls are from one country and can enforce new norms easily.
It is already the norm for girls to try to get a little bit extra by being creative on timekeeping: they very often tell me the small things they do with what they consider not nice customers. These same girls will however give a little extra time for customers they like so on balance they are keeping to the rules.[/QUOTE]Optimist, would you believe that Laura said thise exact words of "she would be stupid not to ask for more" when asked about charging excessively for services or anything she could get away with from customers and it did not matter if you were local or not. Some would argue Laura is just bring thr perfect capitalist but this approach of only being in this for themselves does not in my mind gel with HB's notion that all girls charge a standard fee for a perfect service since invariably in an opportunist system there is variation in delivery of service as providers know that they can differentiate and charge extra for different things or just simply withhold providing them.
The consequences anyway when I talk to Laura is she constantly complains about the guys that want everything for 50 euro (where have we heard that before?) AND complains bitterly about having so few customers such that she sometimes leaves the club at 6 pm she claims as it is not worth her while.
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[QUOTE=HessenBub;1935651]Don't know how high the percentage of ISG readers is between FKK visitors, my estimate would be below 10%. So warnings have little effect. That's the current situation.
HB.[/QUOTE]It feels like it is at about 30% for western 'tourists' perhaps. Or perhaps a little higher. (Higher for the hessen tourists) But these days it seems we are outnumberred 2:1 by the asian ones. So you might be right. And that asian group is the one that will probably grow the most in the comming years. No idea how that will turn out for the clubs.
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[QUOTE=Pistons;1935667]It feels like it is at about 30% for western 'tourists' perhaps. Or perhaps a little higher. (Higher for the hessen tourists) But these days it seems we are outnumberred 2:1 by the asian ones. So you might be right. And that asian group is the one that will probably grow the most in the comming years. No idea how that will turn out for the clubs.[/QUOTE]Between the German forum and the ISG, most FKK clientele do some reading. Not all are heavy readers or posters. However, prior to any trip people check the lay of the land. In any event, to create an effect you do not need 100% of FKK clients (tourists or local irrelevant). All you need is a few girls encountering a negative response or losing a session or a few sessions because of client awareness of their foul play. Imagine the next Asian that Laura approaches saying I heard about you cheating a guy out of 500 euro, so I will not go with you. If this happens a couple of times, that can do the trick. Magnify the effect by girls communicating information to each other and that is all that is needed.
The clubs and girls are selling a product and similarly to any product, the consumer has a lot of power. I would give you the counter example to another Asian hunter, Evita. She doesn't lie or cheat, so they keep coming back to her with no problems. I never met an Asian that said she was tricking him. The club environment is meant to protect girls and provide a safe working environment as well as a safe place for customers. Girls that want to hustle, should go work in the street corner.
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[QUOTE=Bitumen;1935664]The consequences anyway when I talk to Laura is she constantly complains about the guys that want everything for 50 euro (where have we heard that before?) AND complains bitterly about having so few customers such that she sometimes leaves the club at 6 pm she claims as it is not worth her while.[/QUOTE]Yes, I believe. I don't know her, but you clearly can make more connections between actions and consequences than she seems to be able to.
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[QUOTE=HessenBub;1935651]I'd prefer a situation were all girls gave great passionate service including DFK, BBBJ, FIP and sex for 50/30 min. But this is a phantasy, it's not happening, it never happened. There's more and more inexperienced tourists in the clubs, willing to overpay as they get less service for higher price with non european girls in their home countries. They are ruining the FKK scene. The girls happily take their money, some of them even specialize in easy clients spending big money. Don't know how high the percentage of ISG readers is between FKK visitors, my estimate would be below 10%. So warnings have little effect. That's the current situation.
HB.[/QUOTE]Agreed. All we can do is make it clear to girls we have expectations.
My expectations were formed many years ago in FKK, and I (and everybody else) don't need to compromise.
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[QUOTE=HessenBub;1935651]I'd prefer a situation were all girls gave great passionate service including DFK, BBBJ, FIP and sex for 50/30 min. But this is a phantasy, it's not happening, it never happened. There's more and more inexperienced tourists in the clubs, willing to overpay as they get less service for higher price with non european girls in their home countries. They are ruining the FKK scene. The girls happily take their money, some of them even specialize in easy clients spending big money. Don't know how high the percentage of ISG readers is between FKK visitors, my estimate would be below 10%. So warnings have little effect. That's the current situation.
HB.[/QUOTE]Yes, forums, not only ISGers, are only few in FKK land, but more and more girls read, or are said for my writings, even in small Atlanta. Some of my girls even seem OK with my writings, about their business.
About girls, they know what kind of clients we are and who they can upsell or ask tips. Even on first time, even not German, even not speaking german more than bite and danke to ask for a drink, I m never asked for tip or upsell, I think even being a foreigner, just a question of behavior with girls. Then girls prefer to have us for weekly or very regular, rather than fucking us once. Katea, Kate Aca, Isabella, Megan who all have busy business, know I will have to stop for a while soon, I just have to resist for my last climbing tour 2016 , they all said this week end: Will You come again after? When? Even Anja after only 2 rooms. Girls don t behave the same and I m pretty sure the more they upsell, the less they give.
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[QUOTE=Bitumen;1935664]Optimist, would you believe that Laura said thise exact words of "she would be stupid not to ask for more" when asked about charging excessively for services or anything she could get away with from customers and it did not matter if you were local or not. Some would argue Laura is just bring thr perfect capitalist but this approach of only being in this for themselves does not in my mind gel with HB's notion that all girls charge a standard fee for a perfect service since invariably in an opportunist system there is variation in delivery of service as providers know that they can differentiate and charge extra for different things or just simply withhold providing them.
The consequences anyway when I talk to Laura is she constantly complains about the guys that want everything for 50 euro (where have we heard that before?) AND complains bitterly about having so few customers such that she sometimes leaves the club at 6 pm she claims as it is not worth her while.[/QUOTE]Guys,
Can want everything for 50 euros and Laura has the prerogative to say, no. If the guys goes to the room and stays 2 hours gets everything and then says, all you get is 50 euros, that is cheating. That is what Laura and her likes do. To be clear, that is wrong. Laura took that poor guy into the room under false pretense and started saying she has debt and problems and if he can help her by giving her more money than the 500 and he was only willing to pay 500.
To touch on your capitalism point, while capitalism is an economic system trade is private and owners are profit maximizing, the definition does not mention profit maximizing by means of cheating, in a capitalistic environment, one would pay fines or go to jail and at the very least lose his or her job, ask Bernie Madoff.
Everything stated in advance is fair game. We may not like it, but it is fair game. Pricing post facto which is excessive and varies from the norm, is cheating not capitalism. However, I do agree with you on most other things, smiley.
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[QUOTE=HessenBub;1935651]I'd prefer a situation were all girls gave great passionate service including DFK, BBBJ, FIP and sex for 50/30 min. But this is a phantasy, it's not happening, it never happened. There's more and more inexperienced tourists in the clubs, willing to overpay as they get less service for higher price with non european girls in their home countries. They are ruining the FKK scene. The girls happily take their money, some of them even specialize in easy clients spending big money. Don't know how high the percentage of ISG readers is between FKK visitors, my estimate would be below 10%. So warnings have little effect. That's the current situation.[/QUOTE]+ 1 especially the below 10 % ISG readers at German FKK clubs. Forums writing has almost zero effect to change this trend.
BTW except for fans of Asian or African girls German FKK scene is IMHO still the best, cheapest and safest place for P6 on this planet, so guys don't complain too much and allow the girls making some "good" and: fair" money.
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[QUOTE=Craiova;1935905]+ 1 especially the below 10 % ISG readers at German FKK clubs. Forums writing has almost zero effect to change this trend.
BTW except for fans of Asian or African girls German FKK scene is IMHO still the best, cheapest and safest place for P6 on this planet, so guys don't complain too much and allow the girls making some "good" and: fair" money.[/QUOTE]Do you rob banks for a living or you have a very basic "state of nature" approach to fair? 500 euro. I wish you could see the face of that kid when he realized 200 was the fair price. I hope no girl makes that "fair" money on any of us.
Cheers mate.
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[QUOTE=Craiova;1935905]+ 1 especially the below 10 % ISG readers at German FKK clubs. Forums writing has almost zero effect to change this trend.
BTW except for fans of Asian or African girls German FKK scene is IMHO still the best, cheapest and safest place for P6 on this planet, so guys don't complain too much and allow the girls making some "good" and: fair" money.[/QUOTE]Agree with irrelevance of ISG on pricing.
I will continue to complain about girls who cheat. Some girls who charge the correct rate and do not cheat tell me they earn between 5000 to 10000 euros profit (not gross) in a month easily, even in a minor club. This sounds like a fair income to me with no need to cheat.
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Forum writings allways affects to some degree. How to meassure it is harder.
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[QUOTE=Optimist;1935947]Agree with irrelevance of ISG on pricing.
I will continue to complain about girls who cheat. Some girls who charge the correct rate and do not cheat tell me they earn between 5000 to 10000 euros profit (not gross) in a month easily, even in a minor club. This sounds like a fair income to me with no need to cheat.[/QUOTE]ISG is the main source to educate FKK consumers. Once they learn, cheating will happen a lot less. Effect pricing directly, no. You will always have girls who provide certain pleasures for more money, but that's fair game because that is not cheating. As long as everything is on the table it's cool. However, take Delia from Sharks for example, she takes you to the room with a great promise and after a 2 minute BJ says, oh I can really fuck today, my pussy hurts (so why do you think we are in the room? For me to draw on you astute insights on the Euro zone refugee strategy? She did that trick with a few clubbers I know. Or a new girl at Sharks, Stella, BJ includes licking the top and sex includes 5 cm in you push hard. For me that is cheating as well. You pay for a standard service and you get 30% of it.
Honestly, I just feel bad for that Asian kid from Oase. Personally, I have my regulars and when I try new girls, I am OK with a 50 euro mistake. Usually when I get cheated (time lies, regular extras not announced, Delia can't fuck) I let it go, but from now on, reception, here we come.
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[QUOTE=Jnpr30;1935594]After attending sharks on Friday and Saturday, I trudged up to Oase on Sunday. I rented my room close to Sharks, so Oase was a long drive, especially coming back late in the night. I would not have minded going to Sharks for 3 days in a row. But the lineup was somewhat disappointing, and I missed some of my fav girls. The parking situation was clearly a factor, and all the horror stories about sausage celebrations. I had initially expected to be busy with someone the whole day but that plan fell through due to some logistical issues last min.
In recent past, Sharks had been my top club, but I was pleasantly surprised with Oase. I thought the girls quality was better, especially given It was Sunday. I liked the new kino setup, that whole hall feels a bit more wider and less boxed in. Although still too dim and gloomy. The outdoor food facility was good. I was a bit pissed that they took off the paid pizza off the menu, but that's a small gripe...[/QUOTE]Don't be disappointed by the number of session there is no link between quality and quantity, was also questioning myself in the last months why I am no more so exited as before until I met a German escort 21 YO in the last 2 weeks and believe me with her it was like I am 18 YO so chemistry is very important for some people including me. For me Shark was never the top of the FKK, and even I consider the LU average, some good days FKK World is far above.
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[QUOTE=Danny227;1935662]I think the percentage is higher than that. Every tourists that speaks with me mentions ISG. Everyone is doing research before travelling, including us when we go on fuck tours. Don't underestimate the power of internet information. In addition, let us not be extreme with only expecting all the services for 50 euro. 100 euro for DFK is also fair game. However, the problem is with the girls that cheat and in the room after the BJ reveal more information of what they don't do or at the end say 500 euro for 2 hours. If a girl states outside the room the true cost and service, that is at least fair and is not considered cheating. We do not have to buy the service, but putting us in the predicament after the session of choosing let make a big deal and go to reception or lets pay some extra and save the embarrassment. I can't count how many times in my last visit in Oase I see the girls receive money and say what? This is too little. You have to give me more and please what is with my present.
The cheaters do not deserve common courtesy.[/QUOTE]May be you should try my advice, take a girl don t speak about money and in the room just tell thanks give me good service and I will give you 100 or 150 euros, I do this since 10 years and I was more or less never cheated, but don t look the watch you are purchasing time but service, some girl when the chemistry is fine will be very happy with you. A girl can have great pleasure with one monger but 0 with you or me so all this reports about the performance of the girls are useless for me, I respect too much the girls that is why I never give names or reports but I think for many of us what is important is the global atmosphere in a club, and not if this girl do this or this. Visited in the last 2 weeks Sakura and Paradise Saarbrucken and I had great experiences in both clubs even many of you will not go there. We are humans, the girls are humans we have to accept inconsistency this is life.
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ISGers need to make up their minds about Romanian girls and foreign male guests. On one hand, there is perpetual complaints that Romanian girls are not so good, and that more foreigners drive up prices. However, w / o Romanian girls there would be not enough girls in this many clubs at these prices, which is very obvious. Less onions but also equally true is that if there were not as many male foreigner guests, demand would have been much worse for the girls, especially given the weak economy in Germany and Europe for several years now. Certainly a lot of girls would have left the business in despair if foreigner business collapsed.