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On the matter of costs Non - pro VS Pro, I'd say a TRUE non pro is much cheaper. Your typical TRUE nonpro is very economical and will actually go out of her way to help you save money. This is the main difference between the TRUE and the PSEUDO non-pro. The PSUEDO non-pro will always try and steer you to towards the mall and drag you in shops, try things on etc then sulk when you won't buy her everything she touches. These sort of girls WILL cost you more than a PRO who just gets her hourly rate and says goodbye.
All the TRUE non pro's I've meet in Rio have been out of towners, either on holiday or going there to study. The trouble with these girls is that you don't know if they are leading a double life(ie married/namorado). One girl I meet there(a student)from BH went to extremes to hide me when I went to visit her in her home city. It was so bad she wanted us to stay/live in the hotel room and have food sent up.
In a smaller town, a girl has to be upfront with you as there is nowhere to hide. I always make a point now of visiting her home, speaking with relations very early on as I've got tired of timewasters. The smaller towns also don't have the problems of the street kids, drug wars etc and you'll soon make friends with the locals.
If you go to Brasil to find a long term partner you need to find a smaller town away from the gringo areas. You also need to decide if you need the company of gringos, I think part of the reason many stay in Copa is that there is a constant supply of buddies.
Undray, what you need to do is travel around first and see how you like places, Brasil can be a funny place, something that works for one guy may not work for another. Some on the board rate Porto Seguro, however I found it one of the worst places for girl action and got called 'gringo' more times in 1 week than 1 year in other areas. I was there during carnaval , maybe this made the difference?
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Natal: Small, regional and boring after about 10 days. Good sex scene for its size, though.
Don't worry about safety so much! You'll be fine no matter how much you're worth if your low-key and easy going.
Anyone know anything about Belo Horizonte over a long-term stay?
TIA,
JWadd
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You know, this language thing might be a red herring. You don't need fluent Portuguese to chase girls.
I've found that (not just in Brazil) learning a few things in any language is very disarming. It's good manners, which we know always goes a long way.
First thing you have to learn is to say sorry, I don't speak xxxx - in Brazil, 'sinto muito, eu não fala Portuguese' more or less phonetic. I find it's much better than bluntly asking someone 'Do you speak English?'. Well, try that with a Frenchman if you want to know what I mean - even of they do, they'll say no.
You'll find people will bend over backwards to help you, and in fact the more you fuck it up the better - if your Portuguese is terrible, they won't worry so much about their English being poor!
A few others (I'm sure these have already been posted) simple stuff. Pronounciation if not phonetic in brackets:
Bom dia (in Rio, bon Jia) - good morning
Boa tarde (Rio = tarje) good afternoon
Obrigado, if YOU are male. Obrigada, if female - thank you
Voce tem . . . . = do you have (as in shop)
Voce quer uma bebida? - would you like a drink?
Oi - kinda generic, means 'hi', but also can mean 'pardon?'
Desculpe - sorry (descoop)
da licença - excuse me (lisensa - the ç always sounds like an s)
Fala devagar por favor - please speak slowly.
I find another useful one is to say 'to gringo' (pr. toe). It's a slightly self mocking way to say I don't understand you. Means (obviously I guess) I'm a foreigner. Normally gets a smile, which is what you're aiming for!
When all else fails, Spanish if you have any might help you, although I have to say it's not going to help you understand Portuguese. This is a hard language to learn, took me 5 years, and I was bilingual with French already.
Happy hunting!
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thanks for the good advice johnny d. especially the point about using spanish. many portuguese words are similar to spanish, but you should never assume that speaking spanish will be understood by a brasillian. many brasillians speak or understand spanish, but it is rather presumptuous to just start speaking spanish & expect people to understand you - you are, after all, in a portuguese speaking country.
i have to agree with you for the most part. if you go around expecting people to speak your language, when you're in their country, you're going to annoy at least a few of the locals. this is the case pretty much everywhere in the world, not just france. i was once discussing this with a brasillian friend, who said that he never had problems getting french people to speak to him in english while he was in france - he would say something like, "excuse me, i don't speak french, do you speak portuguese?" he said a very high percentage would say "no, i don't speak portuguese, but i do speak english."
i think that speaking very little portuguese can actually help in picking up non pros (pros as well) if you can make it obvious that you're trying to learn the language. i think it's part of the maternal instinct or something - teaching communication skills. most women are genetically programmed to teach babies how to speak, they seem to transfer this predisposition to adults who make an effort to learn. we used to refer to these women as, long haired dictionaries. they can actually make learning a language a lot of fun!
i spent about 2 years living in brasil. by the time i left, i was able to carry a conversation with pretty much any brasillian i came into contact with, most were polite enough to not scold me for my rude language, most of my teachers had little, if any education - i learned to speak street portuguese from the girls & other folks you meet on the streets (portuguese da rua) and fisherman's portuguese (portuguese do pescador) since i worked with a number of guys from small fishing villages. i never had any formal courses in portuguese and i never really tried to write it, i was usually able to discern the meaning of written portuguese, but would have to consider myself functionally illiterate. one thing i always thought interesting though, is that while i was able to converse with most brasillians i came in contact with, i had great difficulty in following the dialogue on the television (news programs, etc) or on the radio. this was, i'm sure, partly due to the speed at which they spoke, but was also good for reminding me that i had a lot more to learn.
cw
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Good points, Jonny D. I've never really needed that much Portuguese to have all the fun (both paid and free) I've ever needed with every strata of garota in almost every part of Brasil. You're right, man: all you ever have to do is get them to smile.
Ahhh, counting the days 'til I return,
JWadd
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Jonny D said:
"When all else fails, Spanish if you have any might help you, although I have to say it's not going to help you understand Portuguese. This is a hard language to learn, took me 5 years, and I was bilingual with French already."
Well, I've done it both ways. The first time I was in Brasil, I had to rely entirely on my Brazilian buddy to help me out. After I learned a bit of Portuguese I found it infinitely easier to score regular chicks. (--and to score better looking ones. My Brazilian pal is the sort of fucking dog that will always try to score with the best looking chicks in the bunch and leave me with the ugly ones)
For me it took about 6 months of studying solo back in the States to get where I needed to be. I used Rosetta Stone every night for about 1/2 hour. The RS software is easy enough to where it isn't a chore to use. I actually looked forward to studying.
When I actually got to Brasil and tried speaking Portuguese I was really bad, but the studying built enough of a foundation that I picked it up rapidly. After my second week there I spoke well enough to score my first non-pro. After four months in the country, I was spending whole weekends with one girl or another and speaking nothing but Portuguese the whole time. I still can't understand rapidly-spoken Portuguese, and I still have a very limited vocabulary, but I can manage to get across just about anything I want to if the person I'm talking to is patient enough.
Anyway, this forum is for people interested in LIVING in Brazil. My opinion, for what its worth, is that anyone living in Brazil and not learning Portuguese is worst sort of lazy-assed coward. Its not that hard to learn enough to hold a basic conversation. Half an hour a day isn't much of a sacrifice considering how much pussy knowing the language can get you.
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About language and regular girls :
- Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls can have sex whenever they want to with Brasilian guys, they aren't desperate enough to go with a non portugese-talking gringo with who they will not be able to communicate.
-Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls are not impressed at all with the fact that a man is a gringo BUT will be impressed with the fact that a gringo talk the language and know about Brasilian culture, Brasilian books, Brasilian films, Brasilian theater, Brasilian music : being able to talk about the latest hits of Capital Initial or the latest films of Walter Salles will give access to the kind of girls who wouldn't be interested only one second by a foreigner stupidly answering 'sou gringo' to every sentence he hears and knowing nothing about the country he visits.
-Regular (non mercenery) Brasilian girls need time to discover and cultivate relationships, and most will only do with a fluent portugese speaker.
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Pro,
Yes, I don't suggest you just repeat the same thing over and over again - you would look like an idiot.
And I think the idea of learning Fluent Portuguese and steeping yourself in Brazilian culture for a few years is a good one - for sure that way you can approach the more cerebral females with more confidence. A very noble plan indeed.
But I was really pitching my advice a little lower than that. We're talking about someone on a 2 week vacation / business trip who wants to make contact in a bar, or even a massage parlour.
For that, I think your plan might be a little long winded, but you know - whatever blows your hat back dude! I am definitely not saying don't learn the language if you have the opportunity, but many people DON'T have the opportunity, so my advice is for them.
To be honest, speaking fluent Portuguese and being up to date on the latest Novela doesn't really seem to improve my score in proportion to the effort. Some may have different experience. That's why life is so interesting, huh?
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Pro falou,
"- Regular (non mercenary) Brasilian girls can have sex whenever they want to . . .
-Regular (non mercenery) Brasilian girls need time to discover and cultivate relationships, and most will only do with a fluent portugese speaker . . ."
I'd have to disagree with both of these statements.
First of all, I've met a number of quite attractive Brazilian women who don't have sex as much as they would like -- particularly 30-something women with kids. Often they don't want anything to do with young single Brazilian guys (and their bullshit), and they don't want to be a second woman to an older married guy. A charming single foreigner is just what the doctor ordered.
Second, I maintain that Brasilian girls, "mercenary" or not, are the easiest lays on the planet. I have yet to date a Brasileira that didn't give it up by the second or third date. I am by no means fluent in Portuguese, but with a very rough conversational ability in the laguage, I never had any trouble "cultivating relationships" (also known as "getting a garota in the sack").
I agree with Johnny D that shooting for fluentcy in the language is not worth the effort if your goal is scoring poontang. However, I think taking the time to learn how to make basic conversation DOES pay off hansomely. Knowing 20% of the language, you'll get 80% of the benefit.
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JD : "Yes, I don't suggest you just repeat the same thing over and over again - you would look like an idiot" ....."We're talking about someone on a 2 week vacation / business trip who wants to make contact in a bar, or even a massage parlour."
Thanks from the tip, Mr 12 posts, and as you're on the board since one month, my own tip should be that you read more carefully the purposes of the threads before you argue and then you'll see that this one is about "LIVING IN BRASIL", this having NOTHING to do with "someone on a two weeks vacation who wants to make contacts with GDPs in bars or massage parlors" ;
As i said on this post which was about regulars Brasilian girls, most of them are not impressed at all by the fact that a man is a gringo, and my humble tips were for guys ( not for bright playboys as it seems you are) who'd like to have better access to 'patricinhas', and who'd like to date this kind of normal girls who would NEVER go with the stereotypical gringo .
So go lower on groundless flames and don't include the word 'idiot' in posts ; I could do so but i won't ;
Fartknocker, you're right about 30 something Brasilian women, some are sometimes desesperate about having sex : but IMO, most (and i think that's also true for younger girls) could go with a gringo because they find the guy 'interesting', and not necessary because they find the guy 'good looking' (with of course some exeptions for playboys like Mr JD) ;
Anyway, when i posted in this particular thread about what is (once more, IMHO) necessary (quite good portugese, interest and knowledge in the culture, ect ..) for 'cultiving relationship' with a regular Brasilian girl, i was talking about 'cultiving relationship' and not necessary about 'getting a garota in the sack'. I'm sure you understand the difference
Cheers
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Yes pro, you're right. This is about living in Brazil, but I was trying to be helpful to those in the thread who don't.
The fact I have 12 posts really only means I try to think before I post. I have been a member for about a year, actually. I don't really see the relevance - are you saying that this makes what I say less true?
But if you want to start a flaming match, which despite your disingenuous assurances that you don't, you clearly do want to, I will point out that what you said may only be your personal experience.
I've lived here for 5 years, I have never seen in this country or any other anything like what you describe.
Perhaps the only place like that is Japan, where the women do indeed tend to prefer their own nationality as sex partners.
I guess it is like I said - a few manners go a long way in any circumstances. It has served me well, and maybe explains your lack of success with the normally boutifully accessible Brazilian women. You should try it.
Good day to you sir.
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JD;
If anybody believes saying 'Soy gringo" is going to get them laid, they must have spent all there time outside Help. Any Brasilian with greater than two brain cells will have already realised that you are a gringo. Outside of that area, you are going nowhere unless lady luck is smiling that day. Its borderline racism to believe that ANY gringo is better than EVERY Brasiliero in the eyes of Brasilieras. How strange that you call termas, massage parlours after living in Brasil for 5 years.
After 5 years there, I think you would realise that you have to make friends with their friends and family as well for things to work. Saying 'soy gringo' Ad infinitum' is taking you anywhere.
As Pro mentioned as well as others, you need the language to fend off male Brasilian guys in the early stages. Often, when my Portuguese was crap, some guy would always want to help translate(really he wanted to steal her from under my nose or just screw things up like telling the girl I thought she was a GDP), now I'm close to fluent, its the other way around.
Brasilians generally go out in mixed groups, my tactic was to start talking with the guys in a group first then sneaking in under the radar and start chatting with the chicks. It makes things a lot easier than just going in like a sledge hammer on the prettiest chick in the group(which usually gets you nowhere).
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Not sure why I'm getting hammered like this.
If you read what I say in context, then it's not quite as stupid as you make it out to be. I'm not suggesting you walk up to every chick saying 'I'm a Gringo'. If I'm talking to somebody, and am having trouble hearing what they're saying, I might say it - like I said, it's self mocking, and quite disarming. I say it to guys as well.
But I think I've managed to tap into a vein of flamers here. I think this pointless abuse adds nothing to the argument. I shall take what works for me, and leave you guys to do it your own way.
Happy hunting guys!
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I have a question. What does it cost to rent an apartment on a month to month basis in a nice and safe area? Can this be accomplished without a bank account in Brazil on a cash basis, and with little paper work or hassle?
Thanks
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2-300USD/month, depending on the specifics (this is the minimum range). And yes, it can be done without any of the things/hassles you mentioned.
JW