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[QUOTE=Frannie]Maybe we need to invent the concept of Fair Trade Mongering just like we have Fair Trade coffee and other third world products.
Wearing your Fair Trade Monger badge will, of course, get you a discount from Fair Trade Providers.[/QUOTE]
Frannie, you make a good, very good, point. I agree completely that one should not pay too much. For example, one of the guys mentioned something about $70 or so for short-time company. The other extreme is bad, too. I would have presented the girl with $15 to $20. In Costa Rica, I had a girl refuse money. I said it was "for the baby," and she took it after some back and forth. Being a fair person IS NOT inconsistent with the activities that we discuss.
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[QUOTE=Frannie]Maybe we need to invent the concept of Fair Trade Mongering just like we have Fair Trade coffee and other third world products.
Wearing your Fair Trade Monger badge will, of course, get you a discount from Fair Trade Providers.[/QUOTE]Interesting topic. To pay or not to pay when given the option? Frankly, I do not think there is anything wrong with not paying. Myself, I always give some money, especially when they have one or more children. However, I do not think there is anything wrong if you don’t. These women, like women everywhere, are not stupid and naïve. If they want money, then they will ask for it either directly or indirectly. It does not sound to me that was the case in this situation. My only criticism with Mr E is DR is not the place where you should brag about not paying. Many of the women in DR I find to be looking for more than just money. They are looking for someone to treat them nice, respect them and show them a good time. DR is different than, for example, a professional Columbian in place like Panama or Costa Rica. Heh, if you can get it for free in a place like that from a hot professional Columbian, then I am impressed!
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Please take note of all experiences in the Forum of not discussing money upfront with the girl.
Some members may disagree with me but here are my tips.
1. Mongering is strictly a business matter.
2. It never is a fixed price deal anywhere in the world.
3. Prices have to be negotiated between the buyer and seller taking into consideration of the quality of the merchandise, lenghth of the time it will be usefull and the throwaway time factor.
4. Generally speaking the girls will abide by the price agreed except for small tips.
5. Always agree on a price so that this will eliminate unpleasantary exchanges between you, the girl, the security, bystanders, nosy people, police, judge and possibly jail.
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[QUOTE=Professor 1]Frannie, you make a good, very good, point. I agree completely that one should not pay too much. For example, one of the guys mentioned something about $70 or so for short-time company. The other extreme is bad, too. I would have presented the girl with $15 to $20. In Costa Rica, I had a girl refuse money. I said it was "for the baby," and she took it after some back and forth. Being a fair person IS NOT inconsistent with the activities that we discuss.[/QUOTE]
Thanks. Obviously my comments about Fair Trade Mongering are a little tongue in cheek, but there is a serious point.
I have an e-mail friend whom I have never met who is an escort in London, UK. We have exchanged 100s of e-mails.
She is a popular "provider" who has a Web site, is well reviewed, and charges reasonable rates. In other words, she is running a small self-employment business in addition to her day job.
This is exactly what many of these girls in the DR are mostly NOT. They are not businesswomen. They are just poor women doing whatever they can to meet their needs. They have little concept of good business practice or what is a fair price. As far as they are concerned, the more the better, but something is better than nothing.
They don't even like to think of themselves as selling sex for money. (I am talking about the ones who are not hard core pros.)
We are the same. We would much prefer to have sex for free with waitresses or shop assistants or young single mothers than pay a real professional like my friend in London. No matter how good the "provider" free sex is valued much more highly than paid sex. Quite a paradox!
This is why novia sex in the DR is attractive to many men, including myself. Having sex without condoms with an attractive partner when the moment arises sponstaneously--day or night--is a pretty close approximation to nonpaid sex, and it is something that is easily attainable in the DR, though not in our home countries. Of course in the end it still costs you money, but you do not pay on a per sex act basis.
Somewhere a balance has to be struck. Negotiation is the answer, but it must be fair negotiation so that both sides feel they are getting what they want out of the deal, or somewhere close.
People who are critical of sex tourism--yes, there are a few!--tend to think of us exploiting poor third-world women, though one might equally argue that they are exploiting us. the ideal balance is that both we and they feel we are getting the best deal.
Me: "I had great sex with a stunningly beautiful young woman thirty years my junior for only $50. What else could I get for that money that would give me a lasting memory?"
She: "I earned $1600 pesos for less than two hours work, the man treated me nicely, and I earned as much as I could make in a week waitressing. Good deal."
Or:
"I expect everyone of my crowd to make fun
Of my proud protestations of faith in romance,
And they'll say I'm naïve as a babe to believe
Every fable I hear from a person in pants...
... but I'm in love with a wonderful guy."
[South Pacific: Lyrics to A Wonderful Guy]
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[QUOTE=Frannie]Some girls are not really pros, or are very naive and inexperienced with gringos, and are too ashamed to ask for money for sex, but it does not mean that they don't need it.
They hope to meet a boyfriend, rather than just sell sex, because they see other girls who have foreign boyfriends who help them out financially, and maybe get them out of the DR.
[/QUOTE]
Right on target. Most of them are just too ashamed to ask for money but they are there hoping to score some cash. Some only do it when they really need money badly. Some make it a career. If that non-pro does it enough, or has a friend that teaches her the ropes, she might be your future pro. The easy money is very attractive to the girls. I've only seen a few manage to get out of the trade.
David
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Verizon Wireless in DR
I cant get a straight answer out of Verizon wireless as to whether their cell phones work in DR. I have a VX8700 phone and some of the Verizon reps claim it will work(roaming of course) and some say it wont.
Does anyone have any experience using their Verizon cell phone in DR? Thanks.
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[QUOTE=Mr Enternational]
If a hooker (it was never even established that this young lady was a hooker by the way, as there are also non-pros that go to Latino's) wants to fuck me for free then that is between me and her. Just because you had to pay don't tell me that I am inhumane because I did not have to. If we are both at McDonald's and the cashier makes you pay but gives me my Big Mac meal for free or at a discounted rate, who are you to get shitty with me? Like I said, that is not the first time that has happened to me in Sosua (as my previous posts will verify) and I am sure that it is not only me that it has happened to. Hell, I have held out a handful of money before and the girl has declined, saying that she only wanted money for a motoconcho. Maybe it is you who needs the humanity check if you think that everybody is after money.[/QUOTE]
If the girl doesn't accept an offer, that's one thing. To not offer anything hoping to get a freebie is just flat out cheap (I am talking about pros or non-pros working as hookers). While not all girls expect money, many would be willing to take it. Only the ones that don't want to feel (or look like) a hooker wouldn't take $$. A gift might be a good substitute.
This is why gringos are the laughing stock of countries like DR. Most of the girls know the score too well. They just hope you don't.
There are many non-hookers (really are not one) that don't want to be seen with a gringo for fear of being thought of as a hooker.
David
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[QUOTE=Jedi Earth]I cant get a straight answer out of Verizon wireless as to whether their cell phones work in DR. I have a VX8700 phone and some of the Verizon reps claim it will work(roaming of course) and some say it wont.
Does anyone have any experience using their Verizon cell phone in DR? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Not sure. You can buy inexpensive pre-paid phones in DR. In Sosua, there is a shop just a block or two from the beach.
David
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[QUOTE=Frannie]Who knows? BBBJ is unlikely to transmit an infection to a man. Condomless anal sex is extremely likely to give you an infection, especially an e-coli urinary infection. However, you can buy antibiotics cheaply without a presription in the DR and a 5-day course of Cipro should take care of most infections.[/QUOTE]
Next time a chick has sores around her mouth because she's picked up herpes, I wouldn't recommend the BBBJ. I took one girl to the doctor in Sosua that had obvious herpes. If that mouth had wrapped itself around you and a blister broke, you'd be looking at being a new carrier yourself.
David
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[QUOTE=Kyle Fox]
There is a part of me saying "screw it, pay the money and end this situation. " And there is another part of my mind saying "this is all a game to them, they know they don’t really want to take me to the police station, they want a little more money and they want to end it here also. " I know it is a game and want to call the chica on it but being right here is probably less important than peacefully resolving the situation. The chica is saying she wants 3000 pesos. I’m thinking that is total abuse and if we need to go to the police station, so be it. So I tell them I’m willing to go to the police station and I return to my room for shoes so I can go with them. This also communicates that I’m serious about not giving up easily.[/QUOTE]
You got damn lucky you got a nice cop. They really don't mind hauling gringos down to the station. I got arrested in Sosua with no choice. 56 hours, 2 cells, 3 judges, 1 corrupt gov't offical, 1 lawyer, at least $500, and an opportunity to state my case in front of the judge and the rest of the court later, I was released. They took my passport which got their hands slapped by the US consulate -- they let me out long enough to contact the consulate. I bailed to the airport in Santo Domingo the next morning. Never to return.
I do have to give some of the police in the Sosua station (2 blocks from the beach) credit. They let me leave my outside, mosquito infested cell when I wanted. The other inmates had to stand in their cells getting eaten alive. No toilet. There is a dirt corner in the back of the cell to do your stuff. Cement floors. I sat outfront with a couple of them at one point and chatted with them until the morning transport to the Puerta Plata court/jail. Tried to sleep in a police car that night too but the mosquitos were too bad. So I stayed up and chatted with them.
Does this sound like you made the right choice?
I knew I was in trouble when the police showed up, called me an asshole (in spanish) and I was off to hell.
When I tell you not to ruin a vacation over $1000-3000 pesos, I'm speaking from personal experience.
David
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It is $100 US. If you can't walk away from it then you should not be going to the DR. There are a bunch of ways you can lose that much. And even the most experienced can be got.
Rule of thumb even the time spent arguing cost you something. Personally my sleep and lack of stress is worth more than 2000 pesos.
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Cell Phones
David 3069,
Depending on the length of your stay you can rent a cell phone about $3-$4 a dayor you can buy a cell phone for $25 and just put in prepaid cards (thats what I do), every time I go back atleast half the numbers are still good. The Orange store where I buy is next to the Popular bank by Baileys. E G
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[QUOTE=Intl Travelor]DR is different than, for example, a professional Columbian in place like Panama or Costa Rica. Heh, if you can get it for free in a place like that from a hot professional Columbian, then I am impressed![/QUOTE]
I had to laugh, as I was nodding in agreement. I made the error of retaining a pro (Colombian) while doing research at the Del Rey in San Jose. I believe that she was the very first "pro" that I ever had who truly acted like a pro. Even my tax lawyer left a better impression regarding the fee and so on. :)
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[QUOTE=Jedi Earth]I cant get a straight answer out of Verizon wireless as to whether their cell phones work in DR. I have a VX8700 phone and some of the Verizon reps claim it will work(roaming of course) and some say it wont.
Does anyone have any experience using their Verizon cell phone in DR? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
I cannot speak to Verizon, but I have an older generation Cingular (AT&T) LG model, and it worked very well. The roaming was a bit costly, but the service was clear.
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[QUOTE=Jedi Earth]I cant get a straight answer out of Verizon wireless as to whether their cell phones work in DR. I have a VX8700 phone and some of the Verizon reps claim it will work(roaming of course) and some say it wont.
Does anyone have any experience using their Verizon cell phone in DR? Thanks.[/QUOTE]
The Verizon-owned company in DR is Codetel or Claro.
If you take a Verizon phone there, I believe the local company can unlock the phone and put in a local SIM chip and program it.
When you take the phone back to the states, you have to have the procedure reversed to use it, so th ephone may be down until you can do so.
The alternative is getting a cheap DR cell for use locally.
The expensive version (if you want connectivity to home while in the DR) is to get the worldwide roaming option.