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Men
[QUOTE=Steve9696;2454606]But I invariably get looked down on because SB is cheating and real men never pay. LOL.[/QUOTE]Real men have a glass of milk with their dinner if that's what they want to drink. And they pay for pussy, and will openly state that they do so in the appropriate forums. Society attempts to shame us and sexually enslave us, but we have found a way to be sexually free. Only phony men try to hide and deny what they do, while putting on a 100% front for society as a "family" man. I've fucked more pretty girls in the ass than these men will get even pussy. And I'm talking about over the course of their entire lifetimes! I was talking to a guy on another site, who was telling me about a swinger party that he attended with his wife and a male friend. He said that I should go, and how his friend had fucked 8 women in the ass, and how he was envious as he had not done that many women in the butt in his entire middle-aged life. Just looked at my screen and shook my head and laughed! Ha! I guess it's true that you become what your priorities are LOL! The bottom line is that we mongers don't let the sexual mores of society keep us down and sexually enslaved. There is a way to go about mongering that is safe, moral, sanitary and correct, and we can't let the uptight, stifled pinheads and blockheads of society tell us no, or try to make us feel bad about ourselves. Even marriage is a screwed up institution if you ask me. So, they can talk all they want to about "real men don't pay". But we're getting some "real sex". And a lot of it too LOL! I know that much. Well maybe not right at the moment, but you know what I mean. Carry on men! Be it SA or whatever. Keep getting it!
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Meet the Author
[QUOTE=Mongerer88;2454338]It takes a while to read this, but it is really good.
A female Canadian law student did her Master's Thesis on Sugaring, and she really asked good questions to the ladies and explored their thinking, which involves a mindset that they are on a higher caste than an escort. Being someone who loves escorts, I disagree with that conclusion, but being someone who repeats a lot with specific escorts, I understand the benefits of getting to know someone over time.
[URL]https://curve.carleton.ca/system/files/etd/5186cf8e-fca9-4e98-8bc5-36239cf1cdf3/etd_pdf/6661a3fe8ba3152811f0f9272f783855/daly-sugarbabiesandsugardaddiesanexplorationof.pdf[/URL][/QUOTE]I couldn't resist finding out more details about Ms Daley -- pretty impressive & a redhead to boot!: [URL]https://carleton-ca.academia.edu/SarahDaly[/URL].
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[QUOTE=BigBossMan;2454610]
Then I found a number she was willing to do FWB. But even she then pushed for $600. I sense she is a little short of cash right now. We will see how the second meeting goes. Maybe the sex will get better as she becomes more comfortable. I am also using the technique of paying her on Monday morning so it doesn't feel as transactional. She could ghost me and keep the $500. I am trying to build trust and the friendship part which seems important to her.
.[/QUOTE]It will definitely get better each time. Don't forget also — suppose you know this — that women and men are completely different. Once we cum we want to be left alone. But my experience with women is if you can make her cum she will do anything you want after that. So make sure to make her happy. And the rest will follow. And don't be afraid to direct a bit. These Newbie girls are generally quite submissive. I am pretty much 100% for having to say "can you lick and suck down here" indicating my balls. And 100% success for them diving in with gusto.
Good luck in your adventures.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2454604]Simple rule. Ignore anyone who favorites you. Don't respond. Just delete the chat. Any girl worth being with will NOT be pursuing you. You make the first move and ignore all who come to you first.[/QUOTE]Good advice. Also, suspicious is their join date is the same day! Or just a few days prior. I think, even if reaching out to a girl, I would be apprehensive on such a short join date.
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[QUOTE=Droog;2454443]I've been using SA off and on since August with mixed results. Lots of scammers. Don't ever send any money to somebody before you meet them. I drop anybody who asks for money ahead of time. Lately, lots of mediocre sex. If I wanted mediocre and unfulfilling sex there are easier venues to get it, cheaper as well. I have met one redhead who is really sweet and if she wasn't such a flake I might ask her if she wants to be a bit more. I've met another lady with a body that really turns me on, but she is really bad at sex. In fact I've been really disappointed in the quality of sex I've been finding lately.
Other things, there are a lot of Filipinas and Venezuelans who have been marking me as a favorite. Mostly they want to sell photos and videos. Not really my thing, but it's aggravating when they get all pissed off about it.
I've actually had some nice exchanges with other ladies even though we haven't gotten together. There's one in Kiev I plan to contact before my next trip there.
All in all, the quality of women seems to be going down, but the number who are getting hungry because of the shutdown has gone up. It's a bit of a tossup whether I want to meet some of them or just go to the Asian Massage place a few blocks away. I will say it looks like a good way to contact women before leaving on a trip, so overall it has been worth it.[/QUOTE]Thanks for your account of your SA experience. The number of flakes and scams is frightening.
Also the Covid crisis is having strange effects. On the one hand, girls may be apprehensive about meeting up physically. On the other hand, many girls in this age group have lost a lot of income and the crisis isn't even over yet. These could be ghetto girls to even quality educated girls like dental assistants. My last dental visit had a hot Filipino assistant I wanted to bang the first time I saw her.
I'm with you. I can get quality Asian (Korean "k-girl") pussy where I am that is consistently good and very often bareback too. I do that weekly. So not even sure why I'm on SA other than trying to arbitrage a unique world-wide environment and trying to get some quality white girl action.
My current strategy is to filter for FWB and NSA specifically. Filter *out* Platonic, Marriage Minded, etc. Get some flirting in the SA chat, then get her offline and ask for PPM pay per meet. I'm not just up for wham-bam but that would be nice. If there's compatibility, I'm more than willing to go to dinners and outings later -- that doesn't happen with the k-girls. For me, like most men, the physical side has to be there first so I want a girl that shows willingness with PPM.
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[QUOTE=Steve9696;2454136]You should look into P411. Not sure if they are accepting new members. It's a little scary at first. You have to give them your drivers license details and they do a quick discreet employment check. Supposedly they don't keep any info other than a few keys to unique identify you.
Did this 5 years ago maybe and no issues after initial setup. Hey he great thing about is it's a vetted marketplace. The guys are known to be safe and non LE for the girls and the girls likewise vetted and not LE. There are no reviews. Just "okays" but it's very assuring to know the provider is legit. I have had some very nice experiences.
And I would Highly recommend ChristineGFE in Phoenix who has her own website. But she will need P411 or otherwise need to verify you before she invites you to her rather nice apartment.[/QUOTE]I looked in P411 yesterday. But I saw some very negative reviews about it. For starters, P411 doesn't even pretend that its *not* a prostitution site. In the US, prostitution is illegal yet the P411 takes you full details (name, address, DOB, income, employment.). If P411 gets raided and hit with a search warrant, then they have a treasure trove of personal information on Johns. P411 is registered and hosted in the USA so they are subject to searches if a court orders it. They should register outside of the USA to at least mitigate that part of it like a. Ch domain that many monger sites are starting to use.
Also, can you usea P411 verification on your SA profile so girls can easily check that?
What SA needs is an *income verification* in addition to their background check. The income verification is just like that would be done when applying for a mortgage or re-finance. Send them recent pay stubs along with all current bank & investment statements. That would give girls a better selection criteria. As any broke dude (decent or not) can claim a $2 M networth and multiple real estate properties.
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[QUOTE=Midwestern;2454478]Thanks for posting this. I like reading this stuff. I just finished skimming the whole thing. However, I was a bit disappointed with the thesis, but not because it wasn't a good thesis (I thought it was very good, but good from an academic criteria), but because I didn't learn that much from it. Most of it is academic, meaning that it presents a lot of statistics (some flawed, but I won't bother going into details on this) and the discussions were largely theoretical (I know this is typical for an academic thesis, but for self-serving reasons I was hoping to learn something practical and useful). As for the analyses, it is based on a textual analysis of the forums on SA and supplemented by interviews with 2 SBs. For anyone that does research, it is well known that interviewing only 2 people is too small a sample, which is obvious, BUT, more importantly, there is also a major self-selection bias problem (I. E. , we are only getting the insights from 2 SBs that would volunteer to be interviewed, and so we are not getting insights from a representative random population of SBs, which would obviously be more meaningful and insightful). So, for me, I actually learned more about SA on this ISG thread, and from my own discussions with the SBs that I met and am still friends with.[/QUOTE]I think the portions of her thesis related to LE interest in SA were interesting. I also liked reading a moderately academic perspective on this topic. It was never to going give us practical tips, I mean she is a woman writing her Masters thesis. Not a guy using SA to fuck girls. Her focus was always going to be not in a direction aligned with ours, right? I agree it would have been better if she had talked to more sugar babes but then again my guess is, she did not receive replies from many sugar babes when she told them what she was looking for. I also don't know why she did and't attempt to speak to any guys and how her advisors thought her thesis was complete w / o getting any input from guys who are 50% of the transaction she is trying to understand.
Honestly if you have used the sugar babes sites for a few months and had real sexual relationships with a few girls, you know what to do, what works for you, what you like and don't. Not sure even tips from any other men will be helpful or needed. It is interesting to read about the experiences of other men, but as far as being helpful, not really. That's my view, anyway.
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454654]Good advice. Also, suspicious is their join date is the same day! Or just a few days prior. I think, even if reaching out to a girl, I would be apprehensive on such a short join date.[/QUOTE]They could be legit though. Their old account was banned because they were talking price. I'd ask questions, I've been successful with "new accounts".
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[QUOTE=DownUnderMonger;2454695]They could be legit though. Their old account was banned because they were talking price. I'd ask questions, I've been successful with "new accounts".[/QUOTE]I see. But how would they get caught discussing this things? I guess SA monitors all private comminations on the website which is why we want to move to external chats right away?
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I read some of you said that there are tons of girls on SA during this quarantine time because many are desperate for some financial help. I'm not sure if I'the agree with that since many ladies have been on that sites for few years. Few new ones don't seem to fit my type. It seems to me that many of you don't seem to be very selective based on physical attributes. For me, my preference is generally white up to 25 yo with athletic build and at least 5'5" tall, and I haven't seem to find that many. Perhaps, I'm just too darn picky about my preference. My philosophy is that if you're going to pay for an arrangement, you might as well pay for the best you can get. I generally pursue the ones that are considered to be way out of my league in my normal life.
When you read SA profiles saying that they're open to traveling to you and with you as long as there is genuine connection, do they usually mean staying and sleeping together overnight? I read somewhere that many SBs insist on staying in separate rooms when traveling together. That would be a hell NO. Have you guys ever gone on trips with your SA ladies? If so, how much did they ask for? Do you usually stay away from those explicitly stating that they want emotional connection? I've seen many seeking tags like that.
You guys are rightfully suspicious about some profiles. I've noticed that sometimes my profile got favorited by female members who never viewed my profile. I find that very strange. How's that possible? That makes no sense to me. How could a member favorite you or send you message blindly without viewing your profile? That usually raises a red flag for me. Have you people noticed that? That seems very fishy. Is it possible SA website purposely create some dummy attractive profiles as baits to get more guys pay for the subscription? If true, that would be a very dishonest business practice. Last year, [URL]Match.com[/URL] dating site got sued for sending robo messages from faked attractive members to lure new members to pay for premium membership. That's no good.
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[QUOTE=MoneySign;2454737]I read some of you said that there are tons of girls on SA during this quarantine time because many are desperate for some financial help. I'm not sure if I'the agree with that since many ladies have been on that sites for few years. Few new ones don't seem to fit my type. It seems to me that many of you don't seem to be very selective based on physical attributes. For me, my preference is generally white up to 25 yo with athletic build and at least 5'5" tall, and I haven't seem to find that many. Perhaps, I'm just too darn picky about my preference. My philosophy is that if you're going to pay for an arrangement, you might as well pay for the best you can get. I generally pursue the ones that are considered to be way out of my league in my normal life.
When you read SA profiles saying that they're open to traveling to you and with you as long as there is genuine connection, do they usually mean staying and sleeping together overnight? I read somewhere that many SBs insist on staying in separate rooms when traveling together. That would be a hell NO. Have you guys ever gone on trips with your SA ladies? If so, how much did they ask for? Do you usually stay away from those explicitly stating that they want emotional connection? I've seen many seeking tags like that..[/QUOTE]With all due respect, you should not be making comments about people you do not know. " It seems to me that many of you don't seem to be very selective based on physical attributes". That is a highly inflammatory statement, about many men on this site you have no clue about. Furthermore, if you are not having success wherever you live, that is hardly the same situation all over the world. I have said many times that SA is not necessarily one global market but a collection of several regional and city markets. Each has its own characteristic and some markets are much better than others.
You have several questions. It is OK to ask questions if you had asked them in a respectful manner. But you begin your comment with how your standards are high and put down others on the site with you must not have high standards and then ask for how we are managing our affairs on SA. I have to say you have a curious way of asking for help.
"My philosophy is that if you're going to pay for an arrangement, you might as well pay for the best you can get. I generally pursue the ones that are considered to be way out of my league in my normal life. " Let me see. A hot super model type girl would be most certainly out of your league. If you sell your house, empty your retirement account and give everything to her, she might spend a night with you or a weekend.
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Favoriting
[QUOTE=MoneySign;2454737]I read some of you said that there are tons of girls on SA during this quarantine time because many are desperate for some financial help. I'm not sure if I'the agree with that since many ladies have been on that sites for few years. Few new ones don't seem to fit my type. It seems to me that many of you don't seem to be very selective based on physical attributes. For me, my preference is generally white up to 25 yo with athletic build and at least 5'5" tall, and I haven't seem to find that many. Perhaps, I'm just too darn picky about my preference. My philosophy is that if you're going to pay for an arrangement, you might as well pay for the best you can get. I generally pursue the ones that are considered to be way out of my league in my normal life.
When you read SA profiles saying that they're open to traveling to you and with you as long as there is genuine connection, do they usually mean staying and sleeping together overnight? I read somewhere that many SBs insist on staying in separate rooms when traveling together. That would be a hell NO. Have you guys ever gone on trips with your SA ladies? If so, how much did they ask for? Do you usually stay away from those explicitly stating that they want emotional connection? I've seen many seeking tags like that..[/QUOTE]Yes, I've also noticed them favoriting without so much looking at my profile. I'm guessing they do a a filter search on SDs. When the list comes back, they just click on the "heart" icon on each and every SD that comes up in the list.
Been thinking about it and it does makes sense but just for them. Because the SB now shows up on the top of the SD's list, in his e-mail alerts, and SA website alerts for all for *free*! Otherwise they would have pay for the option of "boosting" their profile which puts them at the top of all SD's search results regardless of whether they fit into his filter. Boost costs:
* 1 Boost for 24 hrs ($9.99).
* 5 Boosts ($7.99/ ea).
* 10 bosts ($5.99/ ea).
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[QUOTE=Pessimist;2454739]Let me see. A hot super model type girl would be most certainly out of your league. If you sell your house, empty your retirement account and give everything to her, she might spend a night with you or a weekend.[/QUOTE]A breathing woman with two arms and two legs is most likely out of his league.
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P411
After the government took down backpage, P411 stopped accepting credit cards. It was necessary to send a bank check to Canada to join up. I think they now take US credit cards again, but their operations are not in the USA.
The real problem with them is that so many of their girls were way too high end for me. $300-$400 an HR is my limit.
[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454658]I looked in P411 yesterday. But I saw some very negative reviews about it. For starters, P411 doesn't even pretend that its *not* a prostitution site. In the US, prostitution is illegal yet the P411 takes you full details (name, address, DOB, income, employment.). If P411 gets raided and hit with a search warrant, then they have a treasure trove of personal information on Johns. P411 is registered and hosted in the USA so they are subject to searches if a court orders it. They should register outside of the USA to at least mitigate that part of it like a. Ch domain that many monger sites are starting to use.
Also, can you usea P411 verification on your SA profile so girls can easily check that?
What SA needs is an *income verification* in addition to their background check. The income verification is just like that would be done when applying for a mortgage or re-finance. Send them recent pay stubs along with all current bank & investment statements. That would give girls a better selection criteria. As any broke dude (decent or not) can claim a $2 M networth and multiple real estate properties.[/QUOTE]
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[QUOTE=Wupoer;2454782]Yes, I've also noticed them favoriting without so much looking at my profile. I'm guessing they do a a filter search on SDs. When the list comes back, they just click on the "heart" icon on each and every SD that comes up in the list.
Been thinking about it and it does makes sense but just for them. Because the SB now shows up on the top of the SD's list, in his e-mail alerts, and SA website alerts for all for *free*! Otherwise they would have pay for the option of "boosting" their profile which puts them at the top of all SD's search results regardless of whether they fit into his filter. Boost costs:
* 1 Boost for 24 hrs ($9.99).
* 5 Boosts ($7.99/ ea).
* 10 bosts ($5.99/ ea).[/QUOTE]In my opinion, it hardly matters whether a girl has favorited you or not, whether she had looked at your profile or not. I think I said this like 3 or 4 times so far: until you physically meet a girl face to face, spent a few minutes talking and getting to know her, a girl is just some electrons moving around in ether. She is not real until then. Could be a guy in China or Serbia, using a few photos to lure you into sending money on Venmo, for all we know. Could be an AI bot.
I think there is really no reason to become paranoid about one type of girls vs other. When you begin chatting, you will know gradually if they sound real or not. If eventually you meet them for a coffee or dinner or lunch or drink, then you will know for sure. Your biggest investment is your time. So, you should learn to enjoy this tete a tete with these girls, even if you know in your heart that some or many of them are scammers and not real. It is a back and forth flirtation. Just keep in mind that a very large percent of those interactions will fizzle out.