Rants and WTF are you talking about and Coronavirus!

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446811]Unfortunately, UK may be above 40.000 deaths, France now above 30.000, with only 6% infected = 0,8 % death rate, with 80% older than 70. US don't really know about millions without insurance and illegals, but poverty kill. I confirm figures are not so much about medical power and potential, but much more about how we live, really mirror for society. Asians already experienced and are used to masks, but we will discover more reliable figures in China. Not so sure recovering make immunity for some, but we will judge in future.[/QUOTE]As I mentioned former communist states like China, Russia or current communist state like north Korea cannot be trusted, in political arena in slung term, these nations are known as red team and they often openly lie even in foreign affairs field.

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446828]Arithmetic: only about 6% infected in France = 4 millions, can become a problem after confined on 11 May, about 30.000 deaths unfortunately = 0,8 % death rate. 80 % older than 70 and 67% of others had disease making weak to virus, so around 2000 deaths with no reason known before virus. Some make violent reaction under virus. Unfortunately, like in US or UK, we are discovering more and more obese and diabetic in France, under MacDo and Cola, weak versus virus. France never missed free beds, moving improving cases to make free for worst cases. 181 were moved out of France. No proof chloroquine is efficient versus virus, I don't hear about avigan in France, but most of deaths were not so healthy before virus. I think being healthy is best medicine versus virus, even more efficient than mask. Masks are more not to infect others. Many were infected and didn't even know about.[/QUOTE]Well French food are pretty creamy and rich in butter and yeah maybe on top of that arrival of American food has helped to make people diabetics, but just death numbers are crazy, it is war level death rate.

There also is speculation, like in Japan, when we are born, it is mandatory to take BCG vaccines by force, so there is speculation that it has something to do with not making condition worst if you are infected with corona virus.

Bottom line is nobody knows, and we have avigan and one more medicine till vaccines arrives in about 1.5 years they say, and both medicines at least avigan is in mass production right now and also hopefully weather in summer may calm corona down a bit, so fingers cross and stay home.

Whatta strange era we get to experience.

[QUOTE=Dreams;2446765]Absurd comments. Obvioulsy you don't know what "war" levels means. 20000 deaths is I just 5000 more than same period in 2018. So, yes, there was an increase, byt "war level" please.

And is it just fake new that some hospitals in Tokyo are overwhelmed. From a good friend living there since 40 years.

As I said before, I greatly admire Japan, loves (most) Japanese, but you are not one of them, you are just a representative of the small minority who believe they are greater than any other race / human being. GAmbatte Nihon![/QUOTE]Learn to read carefully LOL. Hospitals in Japan are not over loaded, we still have about 20 % bed kept free for second wave of pandemic, we are very prepared race. I was referring to hospitals in some western nations being over whelmed and their health care system no longer functioning due to not enough equipment. Hospitals in Japan are fine because we controlled people allowed to be admitted to hospitals to protect medical care system and also first step of aid for mild symptom here is immune system and lock down in house or hotel, then if lung begin to show the slight danger then we use avigan, which seems to work within 6 weeks.

As for Avigan, you research yourself, I cannot be bother to educate you, but for instance Germany is using it as their choice of medicine, it is just that we are producing it for world now, it takes sometime, and first dispatch is in May as I mentioned for free, and it is to selected 20 nations Germany included. You are very white centric, Japan has one of leading medical knowledge, know how, track record, companies and related in world, so if you or your loved ones get infected, I recommend Avigan if you are not pregnant, it is on the way, but it is not cure, it is to prevent you from getting worst and it is working here. But do what you want, Japan is taking international responsibility as we have since day one of this pandemic which we had before west because China is right next to Japan.

[QUOTE=DeltaIndigo;2446874]I posted the link, just check the figures yourself, sort by deaths per million. Look at Germany, Austria, Switzerland is lower but lets take a country with a similar known infection count and a strict lockdown regime, Czechia, it has a dramatically lower death rate.

All you have to do is sort by that column on the graph, most of Western Europe has a lower mortality rate per population which is what you would expect with a more relaxed lockdown regime.

If herd immunity is actually happening more quickly because of this, there would be a plausible argument for this. But this hasn't been established yet.[/QUOTE]Mortality rate per population is actually more important than just death rate, but death rates in Europe are war level numbers as if they did not care enough if these people die or did not take it seriously or not organized enough, which resulted in such war level death rates.

[QUOTE=Dreams;2446765]Absurd comments. Obvioulsy you don't know what "war" levels means. 20000 deaths is I just 5000 more than same period in 2018. So, yes, there was an increase, byt "war level" please.

And is it just fake new that some hospitals in Tokyo are overwhelmed. From a good friend living there since 40 years.

As I said before, I greatly admire Japan, loves (most) Japanese, but you are not one of them, you are just a representative of the small minority who believe they are greater than any other race / human being. GAmbatte Nihon![/QUOTE]If You write about France, Macron used word war when confined was decided. A German politics answered it was not war because nobody kill others. But killer virus. When we know Chinese figures are not reliable, but Chinese start to tell what they saw, and they were not informed about what really happened, new figures now about 25000 deaths only for Wuhan. But in any country, figures at the moment are only deaths known from healthcare, not all those who died at home, will need time to know for them. For example in France, a 92 yo woman with weak health caught virus, her doctor decided not to send her to hospital, because he knew she couldn't not resist, he thought it was better to let her die at home in her bed. Many who arrived in hospitals were too weak to be saved, lungs were killed. In US, so many with no insurance, so many lost job and insurance, so many illegals, who won't go to healthcare, so I trust much more US than Asia, but how could they really know how many deaths? Future will tell for Asian, not only Chinese, figures, when world will reopen, I don't know when, but for sure before Olympics to come. When small NL and Sweden decided not to kill their economy, I don't know for them, but I'm afraid many will die or fall in poverty from economic crisis where we are falling from no tourism, even not in Amsterdam for coffee shops or Stockholm, no transport, Air France need billions from France, KLN need from NL, Lufthansa need from Germany, I think US help US airlines for about 50 billions USD, no car sold, even no Volvo, construction nearly stopped. Unemployment growing, poverty growing, this will also kill in future, maybe more than virus.

Well, I just thought this was interesting:

[URL]http://republicbroadcasting.org/news/vimeo-bans-documentary-exposing-big-pharmas-influence-within-the-world-health-organization/[/URL]

I do not think covid 19 is harmless. But I know the vaccine will be worse.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2446857]Almost all of Western Europe is worse off than Sweden comparing deaths per million. Belgium, San Marino, Andorra, Spain, Italy, France, UK, Netherlands. Ireland and Switzerland are barely better off but paid a big price and it honestly wasn't worth it.

Sweden have counted more deaths outside of hospitals than many other countries. The numbers you are comparing aren't accurate. Which means that you're drawing false conclusions.

In Sweden more people are worried about the economy and we are not willing to sacrifice our economy and quality of life to do a lockdown that haven't produced any good results in other countries.

The countries that have had a lockdown have to open back up, and that's a real challenge!

I honestly don't understand the obsession comparing different countries, especially considering that it's not over yet and there are more factors to take into consideration than the number of deaths. The economy for example.

To wait for a vaccine is rather naive. Throughout human history the weak ones have died, nowadays people want to play God and can't accept the death of people over 70 and other weak humans.

Damn it, did the World go this mad during the HK flu?[/QUOTE]France, Italy and Spain are the worst three for medical system when it comes to crisis management. Death rates in these nations are just unbelievable to call themselves civilized nation, it is war level death rates in those nations.

Sad, but crazy how they managed to mess up so good.

[QUOTE=Dreams;2446768]20% in people exposed 1000 times more to the virus that you and me.[/QUOTE]No.

I am much more exposed than personnel (this means All persoennel at hospital), since I travel with Metro, go in shops, and walk among people etc, without any protection at all.

It's important to know that each country is counting Coronavirus deaths using their own different methodology and at varying pace.

Look at Belgium which has the highest death rate around the world - 631 per million. But they are also being very aggressive in counting anyone who could possibly have died from Coronavirus and count everyone who died everywhere.

Compare that to the UK where it's 317 deaths per million but that only counts those who have died in hospital. It does not count those who have died of coronavirus in rest homes or in the community. Also the Office of National Statistics latest report is up to April 17 as it takes time for death certificates to be recorded. It reports that deaths are double the five year average. So not all deaths that could be related to coronavirus are being counted. The real death toll in the UK could be 45,000 and still be climbing.

Then there are counties where pneumonia deaths are unusually high but there's been few deaths from coronavirus.

I'm using this link for the reporting: [URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/[/URL].

[QUOTE=Downandup;2447004]It's important to know that each country is counting Coronavirus deaths using their own different methodology and at varying pace.

Look at Belgium which has the highest death rate around the world - 631 per million. But they are also being very aggressive in counting anyone who could possibly have died from Coronavirus and count everyone who died everywhere.

Compare that to the UK where it's 317 deaths per million but that only counts those who have died in hospital. It does not count those who have died of coronavirus in rest homes or in the community. Also the Office of National Statistics latest report is up to April 17 as it takes time for death certificates to be recorded. It reports that deaths are double the five year average. So not all deaths that could be related to coronavirus are being counted. The real death toll in the UK could be 45,000 and still be climbing.

Then there are counties where pneumonia deaths are unusually high but there's been few deaths from coronavirus.

I'm using this link for the reporting: [URL]https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/[/URL].[/QUOTE]This is true, statistics are tricky, and it is hard to equate them 100 percent. In your example, Belgian is an outlier in how it counts its mortality rate, I had read about this and this explains why Belgium's rate is much higher than the Netherlands. However most of the measures are broadly similar and when you see compare outliers you can notice interesting things.

This pandemic has taught us a lot, for example, the German health care system is far more effective than that of France, Italy, Spain and the UK. I am now comparing large countries, the mortality rate figures do not use the exact same methodology, but the numbers are so far apart it is very hard to deny that the Germans have handled this very well.

I like comparing like for like and not completely different countries for the reasons you quoted. In this way it is interesting to note why Belgium's figures were so high and you are right, it is not indicative of policy or its health care system. I was also interesting to compare Switzerland and Austria, Austria has handled this quite a bit better than Switzerland, which has a private health care system, you can draw your own conclusions but I have long thought that the public system in German and Austria is a lot better than the private on in Switzerland. However the private system in Switzerland seems to be a hell of a lot better than the public one in the UK.

About the different lock down regimes, Switzerland has a relatively lax one and Czechia has a very strict one and the statistics will show glaring differences. When you compare countries you do have to be careful and I have had a keen interest in Statistics for over 30 years and I try to be careful.

I am surprised by the slow progression of the disease in Japan given the population density it has, but even though I do not find our infamous Japanese's mongers explanation convincing, it does sound like a nationalist diatribe, however I think he has a point that social distancing is a cultural norm anyhow in Japan and that is what is keeping the numbers down. For sure their statistics might not be comparable, but the discrepancies are too large.

But if you do not compare countries, then how could you ever infer the difference in outcomes from different policies?

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2446857].....................Damn it, did the World go this mad during the HK flu?[/QUOTE]The Hong Kong flu killed over one million people world wide. It struck in two waves with the second wave being worse than the first. It first struck in 1968 and finally completely subsided in 1972. I remember it well I was a teenager back then. I remember there being a lot of talk about it but it was no big deal. Within two weeks of its emergence in July in Hong Kong, some 500,000 cases of illness had been reported. The summer Olympics was held in Mexico in October,1968. Woodstock (crowd of over 400,000), which I wanted to attend was in 1969 but my parents wanted me to come with the family on Caribbean cruise which we did in the summer of that year.

I think the difference between back then and now is firstly, there are many more people in the world today and international travel is greater now so that disease spread is easier and more rapid. Furthermore the world is much more politicized now and leaders retaining their position in government is highly dependent on containing the virus within their respective countries. Sweden's approach is worth study and reminiscent of 1968-70; what is interesting is that its death rate via covid 19 is less than most other European countries with severe lockdowns.

Singapore University of Technology and Design has a set of predictions on when coronavirus might end worldwide and for many counties.

[URL]https://ddi.sutd.edu.sg/when-will-covid-19-end[/URL]

[QUOTE=Sirioja;2446831]I think smoking kill about 70/000 per year in France. I was surprised nicotine could protect versus virus which not develop so fast for smokers.[/QUOTE]Nicotine may protect smokers against the risk to catch it. One does not know yet really how good and efficient is this protection, and how much you need to have smoked.

But what is 100% sure is that once a smoker gets it, his risks of having severe pneumonia and death are much higher. Based on hose facts, everyone can choose and decide what to do or not to do.

[QUOTE=ShooBree;2446849]It can't be easy living life in fear. I feel sorry for the rest of you that are imprisoned in your own homes thanks to a failed lockdown by politicians that are afraid to lose the next election.[/QUOTE]Not sure how this relates to my post.

But if you had been in Bergamo end of March you may have changed your mind.

Anyway, I have worked in Sweden many years, and know well the Swedish mentality, very friendly, I liked my time there, but terribly arrogant, they always know better. I was there when Olof Palme was assassinated. They always thought that this kind of things could never happen in their wonderful free society. And could only happen in the uncivilized parts of the world I. E south of Malmoe. Same about them teaching us, those guys living near the Mediterranean, how we should treat better our North Africans immigrants. Now look at the mess they are in with their own, Malmoe is a no-go area.

[QUOTE=MrHo;2446904]Learn to read carefully LOL. Hospitals in Japan are not over loaded, we still have about 20 % bed kept free for second wave of pandemic, we are very prepared race. I was referring to hospitals in some western nations being over whelmed and their health care system no longer functioning due to not enough equipment. Hospitals in Japan are fine because we controlled people allowed to be admitted to hospitals to protect medical care system and also first step of aid for mild symptom here is immune system and lock down in house or hotel, then if lung begin to show the slight danger then we use avigan, which seems to work within 6 weeks.

As for Avigan, you research yourself, I cannot be bother to educate you, but for instance Germany is using it as their choice of medicine, it is just that we are producing it for world now, it takes sometime, and first dispatch is in May as I mentioned for free, and it is to selected 20 nations Germany included. You are very white centric, Japan has one of leading medical knowledge, know how, track record, companies and related in world, so if you or your loved ones get infected, I recommend Avigan if you are not pregnant, it is on the way, but it is not cure, it is to prevent you from getting worst and it is working here. But do what you want, Japan is taking international responsibility as we have since day one of this pandemic which we had before west because China is right next to Japan.[/QUOTE]Its not by repeating endlessly the same lies that it make them true.

Still waiting for the scientific links proving efficacy of Avigan, in which patients (young, old, mild, severe).