General Info

[WestCoast1]

I interpret this and similar posts from Westy very differently. You acknowledge that "all this craziness" exists, so shouldn't it be okay to discuss it on a forum like ISG?
SNIP
But shouldn't we allow some leeway in the forum for occasionally discussing the craziness?

Concur. The local culture (good / bad / ugly) is worthy of discussion. If the good is worthy of display (ie, pics, pinay GFE), then so is the bad (Cebu Pacific and pinoy time come to mind). In my post I was not discussing the normal inane / vacuous questions the girls ask: Have you taken your lunch? I was pointing out the constant parroting and re-asking of my answer to the first question. This is new for me. Anyone else getting this?

If the Gen Info thread is not the correct place to discuss 'craziness', where is?

[Sxxxx]

.................................... Why do Filipino girls like boob jobs? Its the only job they're qualified for!

Ha ha, made me laugh.

But, without doubt, the Filipinos themselves will say: "the best job, is a blow job"!

[Soapy Smith]

For someone who visits the Philippines 2 or 3 times each year, you sure post a lot of negative things about pinays and their idiosyncrasies Westy.

(snip)

Something must be attractive for them to live through all this craziness.

Having just returned from a short 9-day visit to Australia (my country of origin), I must say I was glad to be back in Manila, notwithstanding the airport clusterfuck and the 2-hour trip to my condo.

I interpret this and similar posts from Westy very differently. You acknowledge that "all this craziness" exists, so shouldn't it be okay to discuss it on a forum like ISG? I find (some) of the craziness I have experienced in the Philippines greatly entertaining, and I have developed a habit of trying to use it to reflect back on all that I take for granted as "normal" in my own (for now) country. Simmer and I recently exchanged forum posts about the "craziness" of conversation that moves through three or more languages in a single sentence. But for me, and probably for Simmer, those experiences support wonderment rather than criticism.

All communications require senders and receivers, and so interpreting a communication like Westy's as "negative" depends as much on the receiver as on the sender. At risk of being too philosophical, there's a great message in John Ciardi's classic little essay on "How does a poem mean"? He argues that poems do not have fixed meanings; rather poetry depends on the experience that is evoked from the poem. Westy's posts are not poetry (although some of his photos come close), but the experiences they evoke for me are laughter, wonderment, and some fond and not so fond memories, not disdain for Pinays or the Philippines.

The forum certainly has some serial broadbrush critics of all Pinays' "motives," but I rarely see you calling them out. Perhaps you have done like me and put people on "ignore" whose posts are consistently racist and ethnocentrically critical. But shouldn't we allow some leeway in the forum for occasionally discussing the craziness?

[Soapy Smith]

What's the point of a life where you spend 48+ hours a week working, only to pay most of your income back <rant held back , whereas I could have a nice house, grow some of my own food, go away every weekend. Advantages of an online income that remains the same no matter where your keyboard is. Pros and cons, of course.

Loud applause: very heartening.

[Simmer]

I was told that the stress in Tagalog is most commonly on the next to last syllable.

You're right, I stand corrected. Maybe because I'm learning short words so it feels like it's the 2nd syllable!

I rarely hang out with expats any more because it usually becomes a litany of what's wrong with the country rather than a discussion of why the expats have lived here for more than 20 years. Something must be attractive for them to live through all this craziness.

I have lived in a foreign country for years and I make no effort to find expats. I'd rather be among locals. I also have no interest in football / soccer which limits many expats' topics of conversation!

We are weighing up the options of moving to the Philippines for good. What's the point of a life where you spend 48+ hours a week working, only to pay most of your income back <rant held back , whereas I could have a nice house, grow some of my own food, go away every weekend. Advantages of an online income that remains the same no matter where your keyboard is. Pros and cons, of course.

[NewImage]

So two of my regulars have been driving me nuts. They have always done this thing somewhat, but now its at a new level. In txt they are repeating everything I say when they ask me a question. Example:
Girl: Where you now Westy / Me: Condo. / Girl: You are condo Westy?
Yes, I think I said condo. And:
Girl: Did you take your breakfast / Me: Yes / Girl: You had your breakfast Westy / Me: Yes again / Girl: Whats your breakfast this day / Me: Cereal and toast / Girl: You have cereal toast Westy / Me: Yes that's what I said / Girl: What your plan today / Me: Might see a movie / Girl: You will see movie / Me: Yes.
These are 6+ year girls on different islands who don't know each other. They have become techno-parrots. Before, I was OK to the constant questions, but my short reply was good enough. No longer good enough, I must answer each question 2 x.

Surely you know by now that brains and beauty are mutually exclusive. Its the price we must pay.

Why do Filipino girls like boob jobs?

Its the only job they're qualified for!

[Goferring]

I rarely hang out with expats any more because it usually becomes a litany of what's wrong with the country rather than a discussion of why the expats have lived here for more than 20 years.

Not directed at you or Westie, but it's pretty common for frequent visitors or residents to start to believe their own hype and what they are told every day after a while. If "Sir John" is more handsome and intelligent than everyone else then Philipinos and the Philippines deserve only his contempt.

Something must be attractive for them to live through all this craziness.

Wanting to stay and having to stay are two different things. I know many expats who stay decades in Asia because they enjoy it. However, I also know many that stay because they can no longer function back home. Holding a conversation with someone who is not subservient, having interests outside of work and bars and not hating all white women is beyond them so Asia is now the only place they can function.

[Red Kilt]

So two of my regulars have been driving me nuts. They have always done this thing somewhat, but now its at a new level. In txt they are repeating everything I say when they ask me a question.

For someone who visits the Philippines 2 or 3 times each year, you sure post a lot of negative things about pinays and their idiosyncrasies Westy.

I think if ever you lived here you would go crazy unless you focused more on the positives (outside of using them for sex, of course).

I rarely hang out with expats any more because it usually becomes a litany of what's wrong with the country rather than a discussion of why the expats have lived here for more than 20 years. Something must be attractive for them to live through all this craziness.

Having just returned from a short 9-day visit to Australia (my country of origin), I must say I was glad to be back in Manila, notwithstanding the airport clusterfuck and the 2-hour trip to my condo.

[WestCoast1]

So two of my regulars have been driving me nuts. They have always done this thing somewhat, but now its at a new level. In txt they are repeating everything I say when they ask me a question. Example:

Girl: Where you now Westy / Me: Condo. / Girl: You are condo Westy?

Yes, I think I said condo. And:

Girl: Did you take your breakfast / Me: Yes / Girl: You had your breakfast Westy / Me: Yes again / Girl: Whats your breakfast this day / Me: Cereal and toast / Girl: You have cereal toast Westy / Me: Yes that's what I said / Girl: What your plan today / Me: Might see a movie / Girl: You will see movie / Me: Yes.

These are 6+ year girls on different islands who don't know each other. They have become techno-parrots. Before, I was OK to the constant questions, but my short reply was good enough. No longer good enough, I must answer each question 2 x.

[Wicked Roger]

My daughter, who once taught ESL, tells me that there are at least 49 known rules in English about the use of the definite ('the") and indefinite ("a, an") articles, or none at all. I have observed that many foreigners struggle with article use, but most of us natives could not begin to explain the 49 rules.

Yes Soapy and if we ever get the 'chance' to learn our own language we will suffer badly LOL / We know what is right or wrong mostly but never ask us to explain it LOL. Asians can explain it well (I find South Koreans very good) but can't articulate or write well. We are opposite.

While off the beaten track there is also a rule for adjectives which I can't explain well but I know of and it works but then we are native speakers so we don't care LOL.

[Soapy Smith]

Wifey speaks English, Tagalog, Visayan (aka Cebuano and others), and Ilonggo / Hiligaynon and interchangeably switches between at least English and one of the Filipino languages in one sentence. For me trying to learn it's a nightmare. Tagalog is a little easier as often the stress is on the second syllable,

All that said, the languages ought to be easier to learn than, for example, English with its myriad idiosyncrasies and "it's always X, unless it's Y" kind of rules.

Great entertainment, right? A year ago my squeeze traveled with me to Digos City in Davao del Sur. She speaks Bisaya (her pronunciation) from living her first 13 years in Southern Leyte, then a year or so in Cebu. Since then she's been in Metro Manila. She would get talking with our hosts, a couple from Digos, and they moved back and forth among several languages. The English was obvious, but much of the other did not sound like Tagalog. When I asked they told me, "oh yeah, we're talking in English, and sometimes Bisaya, and sometimes Tagalog. It's no problem for us. ".

I was told that the stress in Tagalog is most commonly on the next to last syllable.

My daughter, who once taught ESL, tells me that there are at least 49 known rules in English about the use of the definite ('the") and indefinite ("a, an") articles, or none at all. I have observed that many foreigners struggle with article use, but most of us natives could not begin to explain the 49 rules.

[Mr Enternational]

What about the other way stay in Koh Larn. Boat to Patts? Late night boat??Much to do / play with in KL. Have been to Patts so know what's on offer there.

Your indulgence Mr. E if you would please.

Only go during the day and take a chick with you. Three beaches there. Samae Beach is the best one. Last boat back is at 6 pm. If you miss that you will be stuck on a boring island with Chinese tourists all night. It is just an island off Pattaya. You can see it from Pattaya's beach.

[NewImage]

Simple. Just take the boat to Koh Larn (Coral Island) from Pattaya (Bali Hai Pier, end of Walking Street). 45 minutes. 30 baht.
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. Sosua, Dominican Republic. Cartagena, Colombia.

What about the other way stay in Koh Larn. Boat to Patts? Late night boat??Much to do / play with in KL. Have been to Patts so know what's on offer there.

Your indulgence Mr. E if you would please.

[Simmer]

I notice a more refined Taglish among better-educated Filipinos, who simply intermingle Tagalog and English in the same sentence, and usually in approximately correct word order. I've asked why they do it and been told that some expressions can be delivered in fewer words in one language rather than the other, and some ideas can really only be expressed in one language or the other. My hunch is that these sentences are not necessarily deliberately parsed, but sort of flow out intuitively. Only people who are truly fluent can do this; it implies the ability to think in both languages without having to consciously translate.

Wifey speaks English, Tagalog, Visayan (aka Cebuano and others), and Ilonggo / Hiligaynon and interchangeably switches between at least English and one of the Filipino languages in one sentence. For me trying to learn it's a nightmare. Tagalog is a little easier as often the stress is on the second syllable, whereas with Cebuano it's all over the place. First, last, penultimate. Then there are words that mean very different things in Tagalog and Cebuano. My driver is "malibog" means my driver is confused in Cebuano, while meaning my driver is a pervert in Tagalog. Ilonggo is usually obvious when spoken as it's quite harsh on the ears. Sounds like people are having an argument when they're actually just shooting the breeze.

I've also learned that Cebuano simply doesn't have English or even Tagalog equivalents for some phrases. There just isn't an obvious translation. I don't have any examples of that right now. It's not even formalised how you write some words so you can see more than one spelling for a word and neither is particularly wrong.

All that said, the languages ought to be easier to learn than, for example, English with its myriad idiosyncrasies and "it's always X, unless it's Y" kind of rules.

[Soapy Smith]

Thanks. Have just taken clues as to where the words are placed in a sentence, and which syllable is accented. And she really did spell it ket cat bor several times.
(snip)
Listen to the girl at JolliBee: "Will you like large drink sir? Its 79 pesos ONLY".

I have assumed that word order for less well-educated Pinoys / Pinays simply follows the word order construction for their own language. My own Filipino is too limited to be sure, but I assume "only," as an adverb, is placed at the end of the sentence because many Filipino sentences place the adverb at the end. For example, a Taglish expression I hear is "wait lang," told to an impatient child. It translates literally as "wait just," in reverse order of how we say it in English ("just wait"). I assume that any of us who developed a Filipino lexicon of a few hundred words would find ourselves attempting to convey ideas by assembling words in the sentence structures typical in our own languages.

A more typical JolliBee conversation for me is my asking for something on the posted menu, then hearing "not abailabul, sir."

I notice a more refined Taglish among better-educated Filipinos, who simply intermingle Tagalog and English in the same sentence, and usually in approximately correct word order. I've asked why they do it and been told that some expressions can be delivered in fewer words in one language rather than the other, and some ideas can really only be expressed in one language or the other. My hunch is that these sentences are not necessarily deliberately parsed, but sort of flow out intuitively. Only people who are truly fluent can do this; it implies the ability to think in both languages without having to consciously translate.

The expressions you often offer are probably closer to pidgin than Taglish, since they're trying to give you all English.

The Filipino communication technique that always amuses me is the way they point with their mouths / lips.

First time I observed this was from a young Filipina behind the counter of a little Korean restaurant on the UP campus. I had been in country less than two weeks, and, since I'd just entered the restaurant, I thought she was blowing me a kiss. There were several other folks around, and, because I was a little embarrassed, I just stepped up to the counter, placed my order with her, and said nothing. I described the situation later to a Filipino friend, who then mimicked the lip-pointing gesture, laughed at my interpretation, and explained it was just a common way that Filipinos point at things.