General Info

[XXL]

(1) Only one person handles the cash register which will make it harder for employees to skim money.

(2) The wait staff are assigned numbered charge slips which they use for each transaction. This will discourage skimming and pilfering.

(3) The system has deliberate redundancies which seem to be aimed at preventing employee theft.

(4) The inefficiencies in the system never seem to be intended to serve the consumers' interests but rather to protect the owner from his own employees.

(5) The method of transacting business seems to be nationwide and not just in Angeles or Cebu. It is probably taught in accounting programs nationwide where its practices are integrated into an entire business model. It is part of the national psyche as much as is driving on the right side of the road.

(6) Where did the PI get this system? Is it is a throwback to Spanish colonialism? Did the Americans teach them this business model along with instruction in English? Or is it a homegrown Philippine chestnut?

What is being described here is pretty much what goes on in black Africa. Plausibly for the same reasons (preventing theft by staff).

[MrWoolyBooly]

Your good old friend's philosophy is misplaced Om.

Thailand's structure and economy has outstripped the Philippines and yet their sex industry is many times larger than the Philippines, because there are literally millions more foreign visitors each year. These surplus foreigners with money are also attractive to Thais. KL (Malaysia) and Jakarta (Indonesia) also are much more advanced than the Philippines and foreigners with money attract women there too.

I have said many times before on this board that any guy using the exclusive criterion of "lots of available and willing women" as the primary basis on which to make a decision to live here will end up a sad and sorry person, especially if everything else irritates him. I originally came to work in Manila for 3 months and liked it enough to extend my contract to 2 years which has since morphed into 20 years. At no time was ease of mongering a factor in my decision-making although, of course, it is a nice sideline benefit. There are so many other aspects that I enjoy and for me, life is good.

May I respectfully disagree if we change the comparison from local sex industries to finding ordinary local ladies willing to satisfy? I've been to Malaysia and many other countries covering most of the Northern Hemisphere. I've found no country yields better results with the ladies than the Philippines when comparing against the same time / money / effort expended elsewhere. Whether it's poverty, English proficiency, culture, extreme wealth inequality, low expectations of men, or what I don't know.

[Cunning Stunt]

Fuckin' hell guys. I now remember why I seldom delve much further than the PG these days😩.

[Red Kilt]

<SNIP>

For what it's worth, I have a good old American friend who retired to the Philippines 35 years ago, and who started and has run for many years a thriving, low-overhead business here. He still gets pissed off (in a manageable way) at similar daily experiences, and swears at the execrable traffic. He calls the Philippines "The Land of the Not Quite Right" among other things. But in his more philosophical moments, his view is as follows: Because things don't work efficiently or effectively, the country has not progressed economically as fast as many other countries in Asia. Because of this depressed economic situation, foreigners with some money are still attractive to Pinays.

Your good old friend's philosophy is misplaced Om.

Thailand's structure and economy has outstripped the Philippines and yet their sex industry is many times larger than the Philippines, because there are literally millions more foreign visitors each year. These surplus foreigners with money are also attractive to Thais. KL (Malaysia) and Jakarta (Indonesia) also are much more advanced than the Philippines and foreigners with money attract women there too.

I have said many times before on this board that any guy using the exclusive criterion of "lots of available and willing women" as the primary basis on which to make a decision to live here will end up a sad and sorry person, especially if everything else irritates him. I originally came to work in Manila for 3 months and liked it enough to extend my contract to 2 years which has since morphed into 20 years. At no time was ease of mongering a factor in my decision-making although, of course, it is a nice sideline benefit. There are so many other aspects that I enjoy and for me, life is good.

[Member #4566]

I keep telling myself that it's a rational business decision weighing the cost of labor over the cost of whatever automation they'd pay otherwise. I have no idea. Drives me crazy in any small store to have them write with pen on paper an itemized receipt on carbon paper. Regardless of (in) efficiency, there is simply no culture of hustle on the job. While in the Philippines we need to just psychologically get over it or leave.

The commercial / accounting system in retail businesses which has been the subject of recent posts. Here are a few more observations on this issue.

(1) Only one person handles the cash register which will make it harder for employees to skim money.

(2) The wait staff are assigned numbered charge slips which they use for each transaction. This will discourage skimming and pilfering.

(3) The system has deliberate redundancies which seem to be aimed at preventing employee theft.

(4) The inefficiencies in the system never seem to be intended to serve the consumers' interests but rather to protect the owner from his own employees.

(5) The method of transacting business seems to be nationwide and not just in Angeles or Cebu. It is probably taught in accounting programs nationwide where its practices are integrated into an entire business model. It is part of the national psyche as much as is driving on the right side of the road.

(6) Where did the PI get this system? Is it is a throwback to Spanish colonialism? Did the Americans teach them this business model along with instruction in English? Or is it a homegrown Philippine chestnut?

American business practices underwent a revolution in the 1940's with the promulgation of the Uniform Commercial Code. This new vision of contract law call Legal Realism did away with Legal Formalism where a contract could be voided by peccadillos like forgetting to put in the date. Legal realism looked beyond the form of the contract to the actions of the contracting parties to find evidence of things like the effective date of the contract. Did Legal Realism come too late be implemented by the PI? Interesting question.

[Omega 3]

*** So I'm in the province for a few days with my pinay. We are having the usual lovely time. Her youth, vigor, and continuously growing appetite had earned her a new phone and some shopping. ***

I was not thinking straight, and I got in the long line. I read on my phone for a few minutes, and then it became a bit like torture. 10 minutes on I had closed half the distance to the register, in order to hand over 1. 75 pesos. Tick, tock. One's blood should boil, right? I just didn't have a fight in me, so I just waited. Bit like torture defined: Its like sticking a sewing needle into one of your testicles, but just 1/20th the way. Every 60 seconds, stick it in 1/20th more. Painful, but in drawn out doses. ***

She said that she would talk with each of the employees that I had mentioned, and also one of the managers in the management office (whom the guard was speaking with) to find out why they did not direct me to the complaint desk. I said that I would be back tomorrow to follow up with her on her 'imbestigasyon'. Of course I didn't go back. ***

Condolences, Westy, most of the rest of us mortals have suffered through a number of similar painful experiences, and can empathize with you.

For what it's worth, I have a good old American friend who retired to the Philippines 35 years ago, and who started and has run for many years a thriving, low-overhead business here. He still gets pissed off (in a manageable way) at similar daily experiences, and swears at the execrable traffic. He calls the Philippines "The Land of the Not Quite Right" among other things. But in his more philosophical moments, his view is as follows: Because things don't work efficiently or effectively, the country has not progressed economically as fast as many other countries in Asia. Because of this depressed economic situation, foreigners with some money are still attractive to Pinays.

In other words, if things worked efficiently and effectively here, and if the economy were booming, the local women would not find us so attractive any more. Given this perspective, we should be thankful for this Kafkaesque condition here.

I know, this may seem like a BS rationalization. But, still, it is food for thought.

As I posted just a few minutes ago, don't try to do all the small stuff yourself. Try to delegate as much of the small stuff as possible. Pay an eager local person some modest (to us) sum to be your "gofer". They will be happy, and you may be happier too. Lean back and maximize your time relaxing and enjoying the lovely young lasses. That's the reason, after all, that most of us are here.

Good luck!

OM.

[Omega 3]

After 15 years here, I've learned that it's always better to have your asawa undertake these tasks, while you wait for her in a nearby coffee shop. And if you think commercial transactions are fun, try the whole business permitting process.

GE.

As noted by some posters on this thread and elsewhere, things can get extremely frustrating here, especially when encountering the prevalent "petty bureaucratic" approach.

Also, as pointed out by some others, "It is what it is" and we don't really have the power to effectively change or improve this condition.

One possible solution I have also found is to delegate the relatively minor but potentially annoying chores. If not to Asawa, then delegate to a GF or a local "gofer" and pay them the P300 daily minimum wage or whatever. They will be happy to wait in line for hours (or whatever) and you will be happy not to have to put up with the frustrating nonsense aka BS.

Sometimes, however, easier said than done.

OM.

[Red Kilt]

The bottom line in all these chronicles of inefficiency etc is that it's the Philippines and it's the residents' right to run it as they wish.

Non-filipinos are merely visitors who may choose to stay here (as I have done) despite unfavorable or frustrating experiences, leave and never return or keep on coming back again and again to satisfy their masochistic tendencies.

The country is what it is.

I have no problem with first-time visitors who think "WTF" and then skedaddle out of the Philippines as fast as they can and who will not return. I am troubled by those who have either lived here for an extended period or who return again and again as short-term visitors and yet feel compelled to document every single negative thing that they experience in order to pour derision on both the people and the processes.

You only need to live here for a very short time to know both what's wrong with the country and what is attractive about it. Most of the negative things that are continuously documented here have been in place for all of the 20 years I have lived here, but the other positive experiences of living here outweigh the negatives, otherwise I would have left long ago.

If you want to live in the Philippines peacefully and in good health, leave all your expectations and western hang-ups at the airport as you arrive and just enjoy the ride.

[GoodEnough]

The Globe Express counter in Ayala, Cebu) was never express and could be an hour before being served for something very simple. Worse if there were Koreans in queue which for me meant for me "come back another day".

After 15 years here, I've learned that it's always better to have your asawa undertake these tasks, while you wait for her in a nearby coffee shop. And if you think commercial transactions are fun, try the whole business permitting process.

GE.

[MrWoolyBooly]

But this provides employment and at around 300 pesos a day maybe the owners don't care.

I keep telling myself that it's a rational business decision weighing the cost of labor over the cost of whatever automation they'd pay otherwise. I have no idea. Drives me crazy in any small store to have them write with pen on paper an itemized receipt on carbon paper. Regardless of (in) efficiency, there is simply no culture of hustle on the job. While in the Philippines we need to just psychologically get over it or leave. I flirt with the staff or use wait times to arrange my next meeting with a lady friend. It's actually more frustrating when accompanied, requiring forced conversation.

Worse if there were Koreans in queue which for me meant for me "come back another day".

I've seen this very line at the Globe Express counter at Ayala Mall in Cebu. The line consisted of one Korean and one Filipina in front of me. Long lines, whatever. Waiting for the comedy of a Korean without English / Cebuano / Tagalog and a Filipina cashier without Korean to explain a transaction, excruciating.

[MvuLane]

I was calm through this.

Well, I believe we all know the PIs are quite unlike Switzerland. Then again, they are more fun, warmer. And cheaper.

[SaltyPete]

I would have taken a picture of the receipt with my phone. I mean, that is literally a photo copy. You could have printed it at the hotel if you needed.

Part of me thinks you intentionally chose to play the game, to pull the thread. If I had gotten to the point of receiving a photocopy then directed to the non-moving line, I would have given the girl the 50, walked away and let her deal with it.

[Wicked Roger]

Ah Westy, your post invoked so many memories of so many similar situations. I think the problem is you were looking for logic in a country which doesn't operate according to the laws of logic; or at least no logic I've ever been able to fathom. Filipinos are so habituated to crap service that they likely believe it to be the norm, so they wait, docilely thinking (to the extent they ever wonder at all), that the entire planet must be like this. And I don't believe the provincial location had much to do with it: I've run into identical situations in Davao and in Makati.

A couple of days ago I was in a huge Mercury Drug getting a prescription filled. I got waited on immediately, gave the lady my credit card which she ran, and then had me sign immediately. And then the wait began: first she took my drugs and my cards to the cashierwho had several additional baskets of drugs in lineand then, finally, the cashier counted each of my pills (3 prescriptions), and then ran additional calculations through her machine, and then printed out still another receipt, finally returning the basket to the lady who had waited on me in the first place. Then that lady counted each of the pills for each prescription in front of me, gave me back my card, and bagged the order. It's the same everywhere, and it's one reason why no meaningful competition is permitted in the country. If the rules changed, and American / Canadian / European / Japanese / Australian consumer companies were allowed in, the locals would be out of business in months.

GE.

Me too GE, especially the pharmacy. At Watsons in Cebu they are more efficient in that they can be slightly faster in the deed but at others it is painfully slow while 4 people do the job of one. But this provides employment and at around 300 pesos a day maybe the owners don't care.

As you say any half decent western or Jap company would be welcome except by the local businessmen who enjoy a favoured status that other countries won't afford the locals.

Westy. I know you are a calm and patient fellow but even that must have driven you crazy. I have also has 'frustrations' such as yours but never bothered to see it through as you managed.

The Globe Express counter in Ayala, Cebu) was never express and could be an hour before being served for something very simple. Worse if there were Koreans in queue which for me meant for me "come back another day".

[Red Kilt]

I was calm through this.

So I'm in the province . . . <SNIP>

I don't get it WC.

You return to the Philippines every 3 months or so and keep on doing it again and again and yet you spent an inordinate amount of time reporting these lowest-common-denominator instances of bizarre experiences.

I don't understand why a country that obviously attracts you also makes you wish to openly denigrate both the people and their quaint processes.

If you lived here like I do you would know that events of this kind are common and so are best avoided. Why anyone would want a photocopy of a receipt already provided is likely to bewilder most people. That's where your problem started. Surely you know by now that all cash exchanges in department stores must be enacted through a cashier.

Your second mistake was to try to prove some sort of point (I am not sure what it is) to people for whom English is a second language. If you had managed to speak to "management", I am curious to know what would have been a successful outcome for you? Opening a 2nd cash register for you to pay your 2 pesos more quickly?

I enjoy living in the Philippines by keeping Niebuhr's Serenity Prayer foremost in my thinking:

Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.

The courage to change the things I can.

And the wisdom to know the difference.

After my 20 years here I only ever take on major areas of inefficiency if I wish to make a point AND try to get a process changed. In other words, I choose my battles wisely.

[D Cups]

Indeed. The entire country is a model of inefficiency.

It's the same everywhere, and it's one reason why no meaningful competition is permitted in the country. If the rules changed, and American / Canadian / European / Japanese / Australian consumer companies were allowed in, the locals would be out of business in months.

GE.