General Info

[Hutsori]

Perhaps if the USA had not invaded in 1898 and robbed the place blind, it would be richer.

I presume a product of the American educational system, yeah?

The Yanks weren't stealing people, and Intramuros is still around, so they weren't stealing massive building blocks. The Philippines manufactured almost nothing other than sails, rigging lines, copra, coconut shell products, and gauze. It had agricultural goods, and the US was (and still is) amongst the world's most productive in this sector. Mostly what the Spanish needed and got from the Philippines was location, fresh water, and provisions to feed the sailors. The Spanish galleon trade exported gold and silver from the Americas to the Philippines to buy Chinese silk and porcelain as well as rarities of the Far East: spices, precious stones, pearls, jade, and other curios. Manila being the depot benefitted Philippine-based traders, most of whom weren't ethnic Filipinos. So, what did the Philippines have? To rob blind, as you say. Potable water? Pili nuts? Tarsiers? Hammocks?

As in many of these events the experience of those who lived then was mixed. From 1902 to 1941 the resource in the Philippines was gold, most of it from Benguet. The people there were the Igorots, a.k.a. The Cordillerans, who had remained outside Spanish and lowlander control until the Americans arrived. The miners of the region were predominately from the Kankana-ey, Ibaloi, and Kalanguya groups; they panned and mined gold and traded it with the lowlanders for cattle, which the Igorots measured their wealth, and other goods such as textiles and tools. Though they were a communal people, they had a class system of baknang Igorot, who were very wealthy, and everyone else, called the abiteg, and slaves, the baga-en, both inferior positions with no social mobility. The group of everyone else lived at the mercy of the baknang, having to do their masters' bidding, exchanging labour for food and blankets.

The first mines established by Americans were typically the sole miner / panner pioneer type, such as a fella who married an Igorot woman. The Igorots were happy to have them around because they had repeating rifles which proved useful fighting off other mountain dwelling groups, some of which were headhunters. Benguet's Igorots were the most pacified and least warlike of the Igorots. However, these Americans soon learnt they spent most of their time fighting and little of it panning or mining. Later miners were told by the earlier arrivals to not bring weapons because these caused more trouble than they were worth.

You see, boys, you don't know these hill hombres like I do. You think I take some awful chances among these half-wild people but I'm as safe as a nun in a convent. . . . I don't have to carry a gun. In fact, a gun would only be a temptation to them. . . . Sometimes, I don't know whether they look at me as just a poor crazy man or think I'm some sort of magician. Anyway what does it matter what they think? I'm not molested; in fact, they see to it that no one else bothers me. Don't you.

Fellows ever make the mistake of packing a gun around with you out in the mountains. It'll only get you in hot water.

In 1902 the US ended the Spanish Regalian doctrine, i.e. the Spanish crown owns it all. Both Americans and Filipinos could stake claims and own the resources found. Most of the Igorots didn't understand the law, but some did and they too staked claims. Others sold land. Many others struggled to comprehend the changes that would soon come. For about the first 20 years progress was slow because little to no infrastructure existed and two major typhoons destroyed much of what had been built and dug. The boom was from the 1921 to 1935. Some of this was due to actual gold extraction and much more was due to speculation of claims, many of them dubious. Any piece of land was claimed whether or not gold could ever be found there and then these claims were traded at ridiculous prices. Many claims were located on shales, sandstones, tuff, volcanic agglomerates, and other geologic formations which are not gold bearing. Claims were sold and resold without either the sellers or the buyers knowing exactly the location of the claims. Annual gold production was 1000 kg, then 2000 kg, then more than 4000 kg, and most of it extracted from Benguet - 95% of all Philippine gold in the early thirties. Three large mining companies came to dominate. Two were founded by Americans and the third by Filipino sugar barons who had become very wealthy due to the preferential trade with the US. This last group also included European investors. These companies brought in advanced technologies that marginalised the sole claim holders.

The Great Depression and 1933, when the US gov't ceased setting the gold price and allowed the market rate to determine the price it paid, saw the height of the gold boom. When the Commonwealth gov't was established in 1935 it returned to the Regalian doctrine, this time the Philippine state owning the resources as established by the Philippine Constitution. Claims could still be made, but they actually had to be worked and productive within 4 years or seized by the gov't. This ended the over-heated speculative market and wiped out the paper fortunes of many. This law favoured those mining companies already established and entrants who were well financed. The Mining Act of 1937 added further restrictions to the industry by requiring individual freehold miners be Filipino citizens and corporations be 60% capitalised by Filipinos. Production in Benguet started declining in the late '30's as deep mining was needed; other areas more easy to mine were being developed; foreign participation, which brought capital and technology, was restricted; and it ended with WWII.

Igorot society changed rapidly. Firstly, it became a cash-based economy. The baknang Igorot struggled to maintain their privileges. All the other Igorots were able to find better paid work with the foreign-owned mines as well in all the new businesses being created such as timber, road building, construction, and farming. The 33 km road from Baguio to La Union cost the US gov't $2m ($55m in today's money, but not today's cost), which was 2,835 kg in gold (1 oz was fixed at about $20). And much more than that was built; the city of Baguio was built, a large part of the MacArthur highway, about 1100 teachers were sent and public schools built throughout the country, etc. Slavery was abolished in 1911, and this further degraded the baknang's power. Still, the Igorots had rights. If they understood how to pursue them. One baknang Igorot filed a lawsuit (MATEO CARIO v. INSULAR GOVERNMENT OF THE PHILIPPINE ISLANDS) and it was heard by the US Supreme Court. Camp John Hay was his land that had been appropriated by the army. In a landmark 1909 ruling he prevailed. In a second case before the Supreme Court (JOHN F. REAVIS v. JOSE FIANZA) the same year the rights of another Igorot landowner, one who, much like most all other Igorots, never obtained title from Spanish authorities, were affirmed over the US citizen who had filed a claim on the mine.

As education was brought to the region, by the mines and the local gov't, many Igorots were keen to enroll their children. This actually caused more problems for the baknang Igorot in a couple of ways. Firstly, the lower class preferred to work for the foreign mines to provide their children these schools. Secondly, in baknang families the eldest son would stay on the land to oversee the cattle and the small mine whilst the youngest sons were sent off for education. Both developed different ideas how to run things which caused some families to fracture.

More and more lowland Filipinos as well as Chinese and Japanese arrived. The Japanese were about 20% of the labour force who built the Benguet (a.k.a. Kennon) Road and Japanese carpenters were vital in building Baguio because Japan had adopted use of Western blueprints decades earlier. Later some married Igorots, establishing the region's first fruit & veg farms (strawberries and lettuce, for example) and orchards (apples) - the combination of farming and construction proved a winning formula for the Japanese and Igorots. Meanwhile, the baknang Igorot lamented how things changed. In the good old days they simply told the inferiors what to do and it was done. Now they had whip the plebs to compel compliance. The next generation of baknang Igorot would find they no longer had command of anything.

The baknang Igorot bore the brunt of the enormous demographic and socio-cultural pressure brought by the gold boom to Benguet. Unlike the rest of Igorot society, the former abiteg and baga-en, which adapted to the changes brought by the American era quite well, most baknang did not. They had become progressively cut off from the gold mining activity as an integral part of their socio-econornic fabric and were unable to exploit the new opportunities becoming available. The baknang were prisoners of their former wealth and prestige. Without access to their previous means of liquidity, gold, and with cattle grazing land dwindling, the economic base of the baknang shrank dramatically. With this went their traditional prestige. They no longer had the resources to perform the rituals that helped keep the lower class under their thumb and these once-exploited people had new options. But don't shed a tear for the baknang, many saw education as their children's futures so amongst this group came Benguet's first doctors, lawyers, politicians, civil servants, and teachers. However, unlike gold, education was not an exclusive preserve of the baknang. They faced increasing competition from the abiteg and former baga-en who realised that, in this paradigm shift, education could make them competitive with the baknang. This became a way toward upward mobility that was not possible under customary, i.e. pre-American colonial, law and practice.

[Golfinho]

But we are talking about the real world here. The place where the proceeds are used to benefit people other than those that obtained the proceeds does not exist. Communism attempts to do it, but we still see those that run everything living swell, while the common folk are scrounging t.

You are talking about your world, homie: the place of some Hobbesian ghetto, where Capitalism pretends to do it, but we still see those that run everything living well, while the common folks are scroungeing.

Note: refer yourself to Norwegian Sovereign Wealth Fund.

Anyone who has spend anytime in Asia inevitably muses to the effect the various colonizers had on their respective domains: Consider Malaysia viz-a-viz adjacent Indonesia; the French domains; independent Thailand, etc. And anyone has obviously noted more similarities between the Philippines and Central America than with Asia.

[Mr Enternational]

'turning a profit' and using the proceeds to benefit the people are two different things, homie. The plantation system, for example, turned some of the richest profits in ante-bellum America but only for a certain class (and color) of people, who knew how to use slave labor resources to their advantage.

But we are talking about the real world here. The place where the proceeds are used to benefit people other than those that obtained the proceeds does not exist. Communism attempts to do it, but we still see those that run everything living swell, while the common folk are scrounging.

So back to the original argument. Even if the US had not taken whatever PM alludes to from the Philippines way back when, the chances that your average bar girl, fisherman, or farmer would be benefiting from it today (or even back then) are no doubt nil.

Like I said, nobody was thinking about those diamonds until DeBeers figured out how to profit from them. Then all of a sudden they are in the wrong. But you realize how worthless they really are when you try to sell them back to the person you bought them from. Diamonds ain't shit without the marketing behind them. They can give the whole damn mine back to the natives, but that does not mean they will know how to market it in order to get something from it.

[Red Kilt]

Check in on line, as early as a week in advance with some airlines, and then just do a bag drop at airport.

Sounds good in theory but for Cebu Pacific the bag drop lines are as long as the regular check-in lines.

I have had this debate with them already. There should be an advantage for those using advance check-in. At present, there is very little.

[Golfinho]

Just because someone is sitting on resources, does not mean they know how to use them to their advantage or to turn a profit.

'turning a profit' and using the proceeds to benefit the people are two different things, homie. The plantation system, for example, turned some of the richest profits in ante-bellum America but only for a certain class (and color) of people, who knew how to use slave labor resources to their advantage.

[Golfinho]

How do you check in advance if airlines only open check in counters 2-3 hours before the flight? There only 2 points you can be sent back. Leaving Philippines at BI and immigration at distination point.

Check in on line, as early as a week in advance with some airlines, and then just do a bag drop at airport. Note, once checked in, you can't make ticket change or get refund should your travel plans change.

[WestCoast1]

Its been over a week of continued tropical depression, heavy winds and rain. Traffic is its usual bad self 9 am-9 pm-ish, and the flooding / rains haven't helped. More than half my taxi drivers are not running a meter. They aren't being snotty or making a big money grab. At the end of the ride I just hand them what I think the trip would normally cost, and only one argued for more. On the way from the airport to my condo I noticed no meter. "Sir what did you pay last time taxi to Malate?" 180. "OK, 180 is ok to you?" Ya, sure. Gave him 200 and everyone was happy. Its been like that quite a bit. One driver said that the meter was mostly meaningless in heavy traffic where rides are made longer by flooding. "I go from Malate to Mandaluyong in afternoon its an hour and 280 on the meter. Thats crazy sir it will cost me that much to operate this taxi because fuel cost. Meter is wrong for long fare. Working for nothing". I understand.

Snotty driver. Took taxi in rain one night with my girl from my condo to Calle 5 (Mabini, I think). Trip time: 3 minutes. No meter. Handed the driver p100, asked for p50 back. If there had been a meter, the cost would have been < p50. He took the 100 and sat still. My girl said to him: "You give 50 back". He sat still. She got mad and started in on him. I grabbed her arm and shushed her. We all sat quietly for about 30 seconds. "F*ck! Ok!" he handed me 50 and we departed. Arguing with the driver won't help your cause. OTOH, he can't get another fare until you depart his taxi.

Had several good Grab rides at low cost. Went from my condo in Malate to Knightsbridge in Makati. Stated Grab cost on my phone: P255. Good deal, nice driver, good convo, and he hoisted some heavy stuff in / out of the vehicle. P100 tip and everyone was happy. Interestingly on the way to Knightsbridge, he got his next Grab fare from? Knightsbridge right back to my condo in Malate.

[Mr Enternational]

Perhaps if the USA had not invaded in 1898 and robbed the place blind, it would be richer.

Finally I am disagreeing with PM about something. Just because someone is sitting on resources, does not mean they know how to use them to their advantage or to turn a profit. Diamonds were sitting in Kimberly Mill for 1 million years. What were the natives doing with them? Shit. DeBeers comes along and started tricking the whole world into buying clear rocks for astronomical prices and everyone wants to talk about how the natives were robbed blind.

[Dg8787]

Perhaps if the USA had not invaded in 1898 and robbed the place blind, it would be richer. When Singapore was founded, Lee Kuan Yew said he wanted it to be the new Philippines of Asia.

When people from poor countries disembark, they are often asked to show means of support and, if they don't have it, they are sent home, often at the expense of the air line. That being so, it makes sense to check in advance.

Can you please elaborate (tell) on how USA robbed Philippines blind in 1898? And since then if that is what you are saying?

How do you check in advance if airlines only open check in counters 2-3 hours before the flight? There only 2 points you can be sent back. Leaving Philippines at BI and immigration at distination point. Please explain what you mean here.

[Member #4698]

Many reports that I read mention how bad traffic is in Manila. Occurred to me to check out Google maps traffic information (shows the typical traffic for different days of the week and times). Was an eyeopener (red is bad, green is good). Pretty much any hotel around the LA cafe / Manila area is bumper to bumper until later in the evening. I looks like the traffic around the EDSA complex is usually moving along. Same around the greenbelt mall area. The map is showing typical traffic on a Wednesday around 530 pm. Traffic to and from Burgos street doesn't get really bad until 7 pm in the evening but it stays that way well into the evening.

Getting around Metro Manila in prime time is rough. This is why I usually stay in a hotel in Malate or Pasay when I want to focus on EDSA (and possibly Robinson Mall & LA Cafe) and a hotel in Makati when I want to focus on Burgos et al. At 9 pm it takes 30 minutes at best and usually longer to travel by taxi the distance from Greenbelt to the EDSA Entertainment Complex or vice-a-versa. At the same time it only takes 7 or 8 minutes to travel from LA Cafe to EDSA or to travel from Burgos St. To the Greenbelt Mall. Don't even ask me how long it takes to travel by taxi from Makati over to Quezon Ave at 8pm. LOL. A long time!

On my last trip I was in and out of MNL a couple of times. I stayed for 4 nights at the Hyatt City of Dreams Hotel and 10 nights (5 nights each) at the Fairmont and Peninsula Hotels. After a couple initial visits to Plan B and the Cotton Club, I made arrangements with my respective bar girls there in addition to my Bottoms Bar long time regular dynamic duo to visit me wherever I was staying. My motto is let the girls deal with the traffic while I relax in the hotel unless I am looking for new.

[Breadman]

Many reports that I read mention how bad traffic is in Manila. Occurred to me to check out Google maps traffic information (shows the typical traffic for different days of the week and times). Was an eyeopener (red is bad, green is good). Pretty much any hotel around the LA cafe / Manila area is bumper to bumper until later in the evening. I looks like the traffic around the EDSA complex is usually moving along. Same around the greenbelt mall area. The map is showing typical traffic on a Wednesday around 530 pm. Traffic to and from Burgos street doesn't get really bad until 7 pm in the evening but it stays that way well into the evening.

[PedroMorales]

I took a 30 ish girl to HK, few out of CRK. I did put p5 k into her purse for her to have as ready cash. We went through outgoing immigration separately.

It is a Philippines "republic" which is supposed ot allow their people the right to leave. Perhaps if the officials of the country made it a better placee to live, then more of their citizens would return.

Perhaps if the USA had not invaded in 1898 and robbed the place blind, it would be richer. When Singapore was founded, Lee Kuan Yew said he wanted it to be the new Philippines of Asia.

When people from poor countries disembark, they are often asked to show means of support and, if they don't have it, they are sent home, often at the expense of the air line. That being so, it makes sense to check in advance.

[Bushes]

The largest export of PI are its people to fuel global work forces. Because of foreign pressures against [CodeWord908], I think age restrictions are imposed. They can sell their body and soul but cannot sell their pussy.

It is a Philippines "republic" which is supposed ot allow their people the right to leave. Perhaps if the officials of the country made it a better placee to live, then more of their citizens would return.

[Firebird]

Yes and yes.

Which airport did you fly out of?

Thanks.

We flew out of Nino Aquino International Airport (NAIA). Since we had to go through separate channels in Imigation (Foreign and Filipino), actually the Customs officer came out of here booth to check with me if we were together. I said yes and away we went. No major problem.

Good luck.

[PinaLove]

I have a few questions regarding BI letting Pinay out of the country.

I will be flying to Hong Kong with a Pinay friend. She is single in her late 20's with 2 children, has had her passport for 4 years and never exit the Philippines. We will be in Hong Kong for a few days and returning..

I took a 30 ish girl to HK, few out of CRK. I did put p5 k into her purse for her to have as ready cash. We went through outgoing immigration separately.

It is a Philippines "republic" which is supposed ot allow their people the right to leave. Perhaps if the officials of the country made it a better placee to live, then more of their citizens would return.