General Info

[RasSpewtin]

Spam Hog and Cebu Local:

I wish to offer a sincere thank you for taking the time to document and share some very helpful economic intel for guys like myself who are considering retiring in Cebu in the future. Really some good insights here! Would be happy to buy you guys a round or two then next time I am in Cebu, although at this point it is uncertain as to when that will be.

Cebu Local, I have gone through some of your posting history, and we share a lot of things in common in terms of relationships and geography. I am certain that we could have some interesting talks one day. Sorry that I missed when I was in Cebu back in February.

Raz

[GoodEnough]

A lot of the bright kids from mindinau will tell you that the "word is out" that Cebu is the place for them to go for a better job market.

I don't know the numbers of US companies coming in, but I see a huge increase in competition for my area of computer work. Look at the IT park, there's a heck of a lot of ground being broken. These buildings are not for Phils companies, and I know of one going up that will bring a lot of high profile outsourcing jobs (fairly "glamorous" work for a lot of people).

Already there aren't nearly enough good english speakers for the call center jobs.

I often try to talk some of the bar girls into applying at call centers. They have gone 1/2 through university and there English in a couple cases is definately better then the many call center employees I've met (the've applied for jobs or I met them through online dating sites).

As for the education, I don't read up on it but I really wonder if it's over-rated. People iin the Phils seem to have a lot of pride for schools like San Carlos, but I really don't know if they are anything like what you would get at a good uni in Europe or US. I know one thing is the profs get paid shit. I mean just dirt pay if they are locals.

Last month's IT Conference was held in Cebu, which is investing millions of pesos in trying to create a strong IT backbone to attract foreign investors. In this regard, it's ahead of many other places in the southern Philippines. Davao too is investing heaviliy, and is in the midst of completing its first IT center. That's the good news.

The bad news is that the skill level of the available labor pool in terms of program, computer animation and the more creative side of IT is fairly shallow, and the quality of computer education/computer engineering here is not where near the standard that you would find in the US or, for that matter in India. Unfortunately, the country is either unwilling or unable to invest in improving the quality of IT-related education here. That's not to say that there's no talent, but the talent pool is fairly shallow.

Virtually all call centers here require a BS or BA of their employees. Even then, an estimated 95% of the applicants fail the English Language test.

:D

GE

[Pute Nut]

I often try to talk some of the bar girls into applying at call centers. They have gone 1/2 through university and there English in a couple cases is definately better then the many call center employees I've met (the've applied for jobs or I met them through online dating sites).

Yeah, most bargirls are graduates of the famous Chicken Shit University...they tell me exactly the same story!!! Often right after calling me handsome guy..so they can't be lying!...Still they have to suck titis for a living..amazing...

Seriously though..halfway thru uni won't cut it usually. While it is often NOT required that they have graduated..AT LEAST 3-4 yrs of uni studies is usually the requirement to work in a call center. If they will work taking phone orders for US porn companies, this may be disregarded though. Part of the reason why these jobs are located in Phils is that the US porn buyers often make sexual jokes, wank off, make noises etc while placing their orders. Of course filipinas are better cut out to handle these calls than their more sensitive American sisters.

[X Man]

Some interesting posts gents.

Related to the discussion is this articl I just came across. Apparently 266,000 Filipinos are now working in the call centers.

http://www.voanews.com/english/2006-10-12-voa17.cfm

X

[Wander Luster]

Comparing the QUALITY of real estate, condos houses etc to US and other Developed nations is hard to do, remember that most houses here are made of LOCALLY PRODUCED material which is all that great. I'v'e been in P10 Mil homes and the pipes leak and toilets dont flush just like they dont in some
low cost Luan/plywood tin roof deal in a a squatter area.

I often mention "foreigner" grade houses that means that you have a roof that doesn't leak, plumbing that kinda works and breaker switches instread of a jury rigged circuit box. Probably has a tile floor and US style appliances perhaps even a frost free fridge and a microwave oven, the "biggie" is a hot water heater so you dont have to heat up water with a tea kettle and pour in a pail to take a bath. These are the best you can hope for. I've seen some houses where they get down right gaudy with the architecture and fixtures.

Many of the Condo's I've seen in the Cebu area are nice, if you want to live in a condo, personally I couldn't stand it, but the up side is that you can "own" it in a sense w/o a Wife, rather its like a 50 year lease. Rule of thumb here concerning cost is: ALL THINGS ARE DETERMINED in SQUARE METER (sqm2) Houses generally go for between P3500 to P10,000 per SQM2 in Cebu, cheaper else where, (Davao) Raw land also in that range depending on location.

Many small developments like Ayala land, Pryce corp etc are selling house and lot packages most of the houses/lots are the 110 to 150 SQM2 range.
with many payment plans and built to suit with 20% down. Once again your wife can own TITLE to the land, you can't.

I've got a lot of hopes for this ASEAN summit, hope they get more international business going in CEBU, I personally feel the potential for business here is many times greater than in Manila and Davao is just oo out of the way, sorry.

Outsourcing, Im suprised MORE outsourcing by US companies is not being done in the Phils, it seems India is getting a lot of that business. My understanding is also that some is being done in Manila, once again with all the good schools here and eager young talent I think Cebu would be an excellent place for any sort of outsourcing. A few years back I met a guy in Davao who was trying to start outsourcing in Davao, plenty of qualified applicants, but I don;t know why he never got off the ground.

Regards

Spamhog

A lot of the bright kids from mindinau will tell you that the "word is out" that Cebu is the place for them to go for a better job market.

I don't know the numbers of US companies coming in, but I see a huge increase in competition for my area of computer work. Look at the IT park, there's a heck of a lot of ground being broken. These buildings are not for Phils companies, and I know of one going up that will bring a lot of high profile outsourcing jobs (fairly "glamorous" work for a lot of people).

Already there aren't nearly enough good english speakers for the call center jobs.

I often try to talk some of the bar girls into applying at call centers. They have gone 1/2 through university and there English in a couple cases is definately better then the many call center employees I've met (the've applied for jobs or I met them through online dating sites).

As for the education, I don't read up on it but I really wonder if it's over-rated. People iin the Phils seem to have a lot of pride for schools like San Carlos, but I really don't know if they are anything like what you would get at a good uni in Europe or US. I know one thing is the profs get paid shit. I mean just dirt pay if they are locals.

[Wander Luster]

It's true, it's a hell of a lot less expensive to live here, but there are some caveats. The purchase of imported goods here, including western food and Japanese cars is expensive and can often cost more than in North American and/or Europe. Ditto for imported electronics including Sony TVs, stereos, computers, and the like. Fuel costs are about equivalent to US prices and fuel shortages (though rarer now) are not unheard of. The cost of electricity is not very different from what you would encounter in the US, though it's not as reliable. If you have kids, and you want to send them to a good private school, it's going to cost you $7-$9,000 per kid per year.

The bottom line here is that to the extent you want to live like a westerner, the more expensive life is going to be for you in certain respects.

:D

GE

A lot of this comes down to whether you have said "BYE!" to your western country. I've not intention of that. At least one trip a year back home. When you come back you bring all electronics..like even computer....and the many other things that are more expensive. unfortunately, can't bring a car on a plaine.

I usually pay $1200 for a round trip ticket from a not too big city on the east coast usa to cebu via HK direct into Cebu and the #1 airline in the world, Cathey (rated #1). After flying a lot with them, they give me all biz class privilages accept my seat.

I can cut line, I get tons of free food in HK or LA in there great lounge, and more.

[Wander Luster]

Wander Luster: some good ideas there. But I wonder how dependable the Pinoys would be for outsourcing work? Not very, I should imagine.

You know, I have two employees that I would trust as much of a sibling. They are very loyal people! But ANYONE in a DESPERATE situation will so bad things. So if your trust is with someone that is settled in the community and is not poor and you are really a "boss" figure that they look up to and admire, you have tremendous respect. The mere fact that a "boss" is given so much respect as compared to the US means something to me.

Do you know that they even call some people in the office "Master" as in "you are a 'master' of your trade". That's amazing.

And then it is so odd that a white guy dressed like crap (as I might do when going to the beach) is "sir" but i don't think a 1/2 decent dressed guy would be called sir if he is native.

In terms of the money. It's all the same as being in your home country. I will always want to save money when I'm living there just as here.

[Spam Hog]

Comparing the QUALITY of real estate, condos houses etc to US and other Developed nations is hard to do, remember that most houses here are made of LOCALLY PRODUCED material which is all that great. I'v'e been in P10 Mil homes and the pipes leak and toilets dont flush just like they dont in some
low cost Luan/plywood tin roof deal in a a squatter area.

I often mention "foreigner" grade houses that means that you have a roof that doesn't leak, plumbing that kinda works and breaker switches instread of a jury rigged circuit box. Probably has a tile floor and US style appliances perhaps even a frost free fridge and a microwave oven, the "biggie" is a hot water heater so you dont have to heat up water with a tea kettle and pour in a pail to take a bath. These are the best you can hope for. I've seen some houses where they get down right gaudy with the architecture and fixtures.

Many of the Condo's I've seen in the Cebu area are nice, if you want to live in a condo, personally I couldn't stand it, but the up side is that you can "own" it in a sense w/o a Wife, rather its like a 50 year lease. Rule of thumb here concerning cost is: ALL THINGS ARE DETERMINED in SQUARE METER (sqm2) Houses generally go for between P3500 to P10,000 per SQM2 in Cebu, cheaper else where, (Davao) Raw land also in that range depending on location.

Many small developments like Ayala land, Pryce corp etc are selling house and lot packages most of the houses/lots are the 110 to 150 SQM2 range.
with many payment plans and built to suit with 20% down. Once again your wife can own TITLE to the land, you can't.

I've got a lot of hopes for this ASEAN summit, hope they get more international business going in CEBU, I personally feel the potential for business here is many times greater than in Manila and Davao is just oo out of the way, sorry.

Outsourcing, Im suprised MORE outsourcing by US companies is not being done in the Phils, it seems India is getting a lot of that business. My understanding is also that some is being done in Manila, once again with all the good schools here and eager young talent I think Cebu would be an excellent place for any sort of outsourcing. A few years back I met a guy in Davao who was trying to start outsourcing in Davao, plenty of qualified applicants, but I don;t know why he never got off the ground.

Regards

Spamhog

[GoodEnough]

That was very helpful. It seems that living expenses in Cebu / Davao are 20% to 25% of those which one would incur in Canada.

It's true, it's a hell of a lot less expensive to live here, but there are some caveats. The purchase of imported goods here, including western food and Japanese cars is expensive and can often cost more than in North American and/or Europe. Ditto for imported electronics including Sony TVs, stereos, computers, and the like. Fuel costs are about equivalent to US prices and fuel shortages (though rarer now) are not unheard of. The cost of electricity is not very different from what you would encounter in the US, though it's not as reliable. If you have kids, and you want to send them to a good private school, it's going to cost you $7-$9,000 per kid per year.

The bottom line here is that to the extent you want to live like a westerner, the more expensive life is going to be for you in certain respects.

:D

GE

[Cebu Local]

Interesting post. Comparing posters on the Philippines thread with those on the Argentina thread, there seems to be no equivalent of Dickhead. I mean no one seems to go native or near native price wise.

Your first mate, $1,200 a month, that would be big money in Davao. Why can he not live on half of that, keeping the other half for back up? I imagine, lke Thailand, a goodly number of foreigners [CodeWord140] it all way and then wake up.

Also, some of your other examples bought houses. But foreigners can't own houses, right? Davao girls do sound a better bet than Angeles bicycles.

Wander Luster: some good ideas there. But I wonder how dependable the Pinoys would be for outsourcing work? Not very, I should imagine.

Actually there are about 500,000 pinoys working in the outsourcing industry.Convergys alone has 9,500 employees.There are a lot more incoming,Regarding land ownership Pinay wives can own property and since Land can be conjugal.It is your house as a couple and Yes Davao normal girls are a world away from Angeles Bar girls.Thats why a lot here MARRIED them.Cheers

[Bilbo Baggins]

Thanks guys for those breakdowns of costs helps me get a good idea what I can do once there.

[Martians]

Interesting post. Comparing posters on the Philippines thread with those on the Argentina thread, there seems to be no equivalent of Dickhead. I mean no one seems to go native or near native price wise.

Your first mate, $1,200 a month, that would be big money in Davao. Why can he not live on half of that, keeping the other half for back up? I imagine, lke Thailand, a goodly number of foreigners [CodeWord140] it all way and then wake up.

Also, some of your other examples bought houses. But foreigners can't own houses, right? Davao girls do sound a better bet than Angeles bicycles.

Wander Luster: some good ideas there. But I wonder how dependable the Pinoys would be for outsourcing work? Not very, I should imagine.

[Wander Luster]

Here's my take on some costs:

Best deals are service related:

Haircut is I about $1 for same as a $15 cut in usa.
Legit message is one of best deals...yep, $5 and I recomment a GUY and let him be a little on the rougher side (wear some body armor around private parts if your scared). I go to Body and Sol, and so should you. When a woman does it I there I tend to get a woody which can be frustrating because I don't even think you could get a hand-job at any of Body and Sol.

I paid a crazy low price for a beutiful 1 bedroom fully furnished...forget maybe $220 8 minute drive to Ayala. Maid came once a week. Adorable 20 year old lived with the family that owned the building and washed clothes. Would have loved to bone her, but they already saw me come home with different girls all the time and someone might have gotten pissed at me.

On another note, the best peice of advice I have is do outsourcing! Doesn't matter what the scale is. Point is if you have contact in the US you can save them money by have the work done in the phils and be giving work and better pay to someone that reallllllly needs it.

Think of simple computer work for example. be the go between for 1 or more small businesses and people in cebu. run an ad to recruit people (and if you can't hire them they might end up wanting to sleep with you). Office is your home or Net cafe if you want.

A 1/4 page ad in the mostly highly read sunday employment section, sun star, is about $125. Interviews in cafe...that's what i did before signing office space.

With an ad like that you could easily get 200 applicants for siimple computer work. NETWORK this way. Just don't BS, because you don't want people getting pissed off at you.

By the way, it's been asked a million times I'm sure, but what do you all think the ASEAN summit will do for real estate investment? It will bring a lot of new biz to cebu and make the city more prosperous. Will also bring new RE investors with the new jobs.

Is there any kind of buble there now? I wouldn't be wanting to buy for another 6-12 months.

How do condo and housing costs in good areas compare to in average places in US? I guess on average about 60K for a nice "foreigner" 1 bedroom condo in cebu....something like that. Haven't looked at houses yet but I think 150K could buy a pretty nice house that would be 300K in US in a very average US neighborhood?

[John Dust]

Cut through all the BS and My monthly expenses come to around P60,000 a month. My expenses in Davao were a bit less. This includes a stipend of course to needy relatives and Nieces nursing school. Yeah YOU are gonna end up paying the relative tax here IF you got a steady GF or wife so get used to it!

Hope this helps, I imagine Manila expenses are gonna be more.

Spamhog

That was very helpful. It seems that living expenses in Cebu / Davao are 20% to 25% of those which one would incur in Canada.

[Spam Hog]

Here you can live reasonably well for 1000 dollars a month.Heres a breakdown rent 100 dollars for a decent apartment,40 dollars maids salary for 1 month,Cost of eating out DAILY for Lunch and Dinner at Midrange restaurants 100 -120 dollars.Girl on Junquera 10 dollars,Girl at bar 20-30 dollars,Beer at a Bar sixty cents.Massage at a Spa 5 dollars.Have fun

Perhaps Earl Flynn exemplified hollywoods version of a "swashbuckler" and coined the term in reference to his movies meaning anything but dull and usually colorful, full of action etc, however, some say his private life was more ribal,exciting, exhuberant and well... anyhow a few technical answers.

Regarding income and living large it depends on what you consider extravagant also, as any real estate agent will tell you Location, location, location. So here are a few figures from different areas. Please NOTE all theese number are DIRRECTLY RELATED TO YOUR BIGGEST EXPENSE: THE RENT!!! so here goes.

A. DAVAO CITY. Retired, disabled, lives on social security of about $1,200 a month, rents a house P 12,000 a month which is "Foreigner grade" amenities including hot water heater) has a nice wife and two kids. She drives him around in a little van, Lives very well considering he was living in his parents basement three years ago.

B. DAVAO CITY, Retired, Social security $1,100, NO SAVINGS, married young wife just had a baby, bought a house for P 1.3 mil. furnished, nice, guy is a master chef his kitchen looks like something martha STuart would whip up a meal in.

C. Cagayan De oro, US Military Disabled, I estimate around $2500 a month. His rent is cheap around P5000 a month for a three BR Apartment. Bought his wife a car, Guys drinks a lot too.

D. Know a Aussie in CDO who just bought a nice house near the new SM mall paid around 2 Mil P for it, place looks like a palace, Big Screen TV etc.

E. Guy in Butuan runs a small fishing trading business, wife owns a beauty parlor, claims he lives entirely on his income from the fish, I estimate about P30,000 a month saves his pension to go back to Aussie land every year.

E. CEbU, break down of Bills etc.

Most rents here range from Cheap (P 7,500 for an efficiency apartment) to rather expensive like P25,000 for a two story house and lot some Expat US is advertising completely furnished. I rent a nice house in a Guarded subdivision for P14,000 a month. Prices to rent or buy are a little more here, compared to Davao city and CDO. Rents and buys are cheaper in Mandaue or Lapu Lapu city but not that much.

MY BILLS:

Electricity P1200 to P2,000 a month depending on AC and computer use

Cable. P690 a month, Phone (PLDT) P720 unless I start making long distance to the US without using a phone card, Water (Bi monthly) P366.

Some other expenses: Drinking water P180 A month,
Cell phone: Me negligable Mrs Spamhog who texts the world about P1000 a month. Insurance for Car P8,500 a year. Gym Fees P 800 to P1000 a month.

FOOD: Here is the big variable, gnetleman I like my US cereal and campbelss soup etc. This is my largest expense outside of Rent, Also a varienace on entertainment depending onwhat you like to do. I dont drink or smoke, usually take the Mrs out dancing every so often, somethimes go to Casino Filipino or visit a nice resturaunt like the tinderbox where I can get western food, Movies of course.

Cut through all the BS and My monthly expenses come to around P60,000 a month. My expenses in Davao were a bit less. This includes a stipend of course to needy relatives and Nieces nursing school. Yeah YOU are gonna end up paying the relative tax here IF you got a steady GF or wife so get used to it!

Hope this helps, I imagine Manila expenses are gonna be more.

Spamhog