General Info

[Amore1973]

Have got membership and PM now.

[Jboon]

Well damn, I don't like the cash option. Takes freaking weeks to do? I read through the links and did not see another option. Someone else want to buy for me? That would be awesome; I will PayPal to get it done. Not supposed to put an email here, so hope I don't get my account canceled. But damn, I am trying to pay for my membership. [Email address deleted by Admin] Thanks.

Various ways to join and subscribe check the relevant link as you don't need to sue credit cards etc. Or someone else can do for you? Plenty ways it can be done but see the link and page on how.

EDITOR's NOTE: This report was edited to remove email addresses in the text. Please do not post email addresses in the Forum. Instead, please invite other Forum Members to contact you directly via the Forum's Private Messaging system. Thanks!

[Wicked Roger]

Trying to join. Fucking American politics and bullshit. I assume that's why it's not letting me sign up.

Various ways to join and subscribe check the relevant link as you don't need to sue credit cards etc. Or someone else can do for you? Plenty ways it can be done but see the link and page on how.

[Wicked Roger]

Anywhere to get a fire and ice blowjob in the Philippines? Massage or sauna girls? With hot tea and cool gel?

PM me for specifics please and you can PM me your contacts in Thailand as you asked the same there as can't put details and contacts on the open forum. But you know this as Eramus noted this back in 2015 to you on a similar question.

[Jboon]

Anywhere to get a fire and ice blowjob in the Philippines? Massage or sauna girls? With hot tea and cool gel?

[Soapy Smith]

I have a few due outs owed to you.
(snip)
As I said before it took hundreds of years for the West, so to expect the Philippines to do so in less than two generations before the Americans handed over rule is unrealistic. That being said, it did happen quickly in Singapore under Lee and S. Korea (blasted into rubble by the Korean War) under Park, but both those leaders were uncommon men obsessively driven to national development. Park had no problem punishing industrialists who failed to meet his ambitious goals. When I lived in Kuwait I was friends with a Korean fella who lived there for decades and is in the construction business. "In the '70's the Koreans were the labourers and the Filipinos were the foremen. Today the Filipinos are still the foremen and Koreans own the construction companies winning the contracts."

I suspect the forum participants who care about this "deep context" background can be counted on the fingers of one hand. I am perhaps one of the few who appreciate this type of contribution. Considering context in this way provides a much deeper understanding about Filipinos' interactions with us than do some of the ubiquitous claims about Filipina treachery and monger gullibility.

Important to note that Park Chung-hee, trained in Japanese military officer schools, directed South Korea's economy much more successfully than its democracy. His methods were distinctly authoritarian. He also made enemies, one of whom assassinated him. Real democracy didn't really take hold until nearly a decade after his death. But on most measures, South Korea now has a lot more to recommend it than does the Philippines.

There's an old international studies guy at the University of Washington named Joel Migdal who wrote a book in the late 1980's entitled **Strong Societies and Weak States: State-Society Relations and State Capabilities in the Third World* he observed that there are many developing countries in which the balance of power is retained by elements of the society rather than in the state. Many of his examples are from Southeast Asia. The Philippines appears to fit this "weak state" mold, in that power is often described as being held by an "anarchy" of elite land-holding families, so that the state represents a formalistic set of institutions that operate at the behest of these (60 or so) families. Even Marcos, whose family was not among the most prominent elites, recognized that he needed to gain support from a critical balance of these families. Some now argue that the influence of land-holding provincial families is partially giving way to prominent elite families who dominate the commercial sector, especially in Metro Manila.

It could be argued that South Korea occupies the "strong state" end of Migdal's continuum. Koreans' deference to authority can be traced back through a succession of dynasties that dominated the Korean peninsula from at least 108 BC until the early 20th Century. Each of these dynasties owed its stability to protection from the more powerful Chinese dynasties, which considered the Korean dynasties to be subordinate but loyal to them. In the Korean empires the emperor held supreme authority. This hierarchical authority persists as a strong cultural element to the present day. Koreans have a saying that translates to "king, father, teacher," implying not only a deference to seniority and authority, but especially to the king, one's father, and one's guiding teacher. It makes sense, given the historical significance of the emperor's authority, that power In Korea is centered in the state rather than in external societal interests. Civil society organizing is not a prominent feature of Korean society, although Seoul's current Mayor, Park Wonsoon, is attempting to infuse community organizing within the cities' districts.

I have not read this anywhere, but perhaps a strong state configuration (example Korea) is more conducive to economic and social "progress" than is a weak state within a strong society (example Philippines). I don't know enough about Singapore's history to comment on where it fits in this model.

[Hutsori]

comment

I have a few due outs owed to you.

There are so many sources. The reports of the Philippine Commission to the President and Congress are very good. You'll find them at U Penn, U Mich, HathiTrust; here are a few sample links.

http://onlinebooks.library.upenn.edu...reportusphilip
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...view=1up;seq=1
https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/003931771

Economic data such as post-Galleon trade exports and to where:
https://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpress...&brand=ucpress . You'll learn a lot about the sugar industry. All the links therein are excellent to, such as the formation of the plantation society on Negros.

Friar lands:
https://archive.org/stream/jstor-194...45652_djvu.txt

Prof Julian Go at Boston U's Sociology Dept is excellent source about the power of the Ilustrados. He wrote American Empire and the Politics of Meaning and has a few papers online. Olivia Habana is a good source about Benguet's gold mining. Jennifer Conroy Franco's Elections and Democratization in the Philippines. William H. Scott's The Discovery of the Igorots. Good websites such as https://philippinediaryproject.wordpress.com.

I tend to do a lot of online research of a particular topic, such as "baknang Igorot" , "polo y servicio", "reduccion", etc. There's so much online that you'll find plenty to read. And you stumble across other topics and interesting characters, such as Otto Scheerer.

In a piece on "Historical Notes on Graft and Corruption" in the Philippines, Jose Endriga notes that in the Spanish system, "even well into the nineteenth century, there was no tradition of a salaried civil service and no recognized principle in the selection and promotion of officials. Offices were regarded as places of profit rather than posts of responsibilities."

The entire encomienda and repartimiento system and how it extracted labour, tax, and enforced obedience is astonishing. The thing is, there weren't all that many Spaniards here. Central Luzon was their power base, and the friars migrated out. But much of the Philippines was not under Spanish control. The Muslims of the south were conducting slaving raids through the 19th century.

Not only did the 500 odd Thomasite volunteers

I mentioned these teachers in my earlier comment. There were two batches totaling about 1100 teachers plus the original group of soldiers who taught.

American officials created health clinics and hospitals that ministered to the masses. Literacy rates and health outcomes improved dramatically. The Americans also built dams, irrigation systems, markets, mining and timber concessions, railways, roads, and ports. Americans were banned from acquiring large tracts of land. They created professional civil service systems populated largely by Filipinos and a taxation system designed to make government self-supporting. I think it's fair to say that the US invested in its colony, even if some of the missionary zeal was accompanied by ethnocentric ignorance.

All my reading confirms this. From the start Americans were not allowed to purchase agricultural land, though they were allowed to do mining and cut timber. Some Americans were able to get around the agricultural prohibition.

Clearly there were chinks in the armor of the Philippine state, and some American intentions subsequently failed,

Yes, the Yanks set up the institutions but they undertook great effort to localise things. There's some humorous reports I read of the anti-abuse / corruption admin dealing with ilustrados filing complaints against lower members of society for disrespect such as failing to salute them. "Ah, this is not the point. " Many ilustrados held the idea it would be a new aristocracy. Where the Americans ruled exclusively it was specialised such as the Bureau of Non-Christian Tribes because it was thought the lowlander Christians would abuse the animist highlanders. Absent of a dramatic shock, such as the forced starvation perpetrated on the Ukrainian kulaks or the genocide of Cambodians by Pol Pot, culture evolves gradually. As I said before it took hundreds of years for the West, so to expect the Philippines to do so in less than two generations before the Americans handed over rule is unrealistic. That being said, it did happen quickly in Singapore under Lee and S. Korea (blasted into rubble by the Korean War) under Park, but both those leaders were uncommon men obsessively driven to national development. Park had no problem punishing industrialists who failed to meet his ambitious goals. When I lived in Kuwait I was friends with a Korean fella who lived there for decades and is in the construction business. "In the '70's the Koreans were the labourers and the Filipinos were the foremen. Today the Filipinos are still the foremen and Koreans own the construction companies winning the contracts."

[Red Kilt]

I'm in Manila on the captioned days. Happy to meet for a drink and shoot the breeze in anyone happens to be around.

I would be happy to try to meet you during your stay but as you are not a member I cannot contact you (nor can you contact me or any other member).

We cannot share contact details on the board.

[Amore1973]

I'm in Manila on the captioned days. Happy to meet for a drink and shoot the breeze in anyone happens to be around.

Tx.

[Soapy Smith]

All the Filipinos live in California

A 2012 census estimate shows approximately 235,000 Filipinos, Filipino-Americans, and biracial Filipino individuals living in the general area around New York City, southeastern Connecticut, and eastern New Jersey.

https://factfinder.census.gov/faces/...xhtml?src=bkmk

Have you seen the scenes in the Bourne Legacy in the pretend pharmaceutical factory? Most of that was filmed in the off hours at the New York Times printing plant on Long Island. Must have been thousands of Filipino extras hired for those scenes. :)

[Bushes]

Well, I think a fair number of Filipinos live outside CA. However, JFK? I have not flown out of or into that sxxx hole in a quarter century.

Ah right. Looks like the current service is JFK-YVR-MNL on a B773,4 x a week. Timetable shows a change on Oct 29th to 5 x a week with a shorter duration ( 4 hours less) which makes sense if it becomes non-stop then. The Oct 29th onwards 0145 departure from JFK is a bit meh but avoids a dark o'clock AM arrival into Manila.

Who did that research? That thing is going to last about 5 minutes. All the Filipinos live in California and everyone on the flights are people that live in the US that are going back to visit family.

[Simmer]

If I recall, the JFK-MNL service starts in December '18. Apparently serviced by a new A-350 (enough range to fly non-stop). It should be a comfortable flight, but I doubt it will be profitable. MNL has very low yields.

Ah right. Looks like the current service is JFK-YVR-MNL on a B773,4 x a week. Timetable shows a change on Oct 29th to 5 x a week with a shorter duration ( 4 hours less) which makes sense if it becomes non-stop then. The Oct 29th onwards 0145 departure from JFK is a bit meh but avoids a dark o'clock AM arrival into Manila.

[Breadman]

Who did that research? That thing is going to last about 5 minutes. All the Filipinos live in California and everyone on the flights are people that live in the US that are going back to visit family.

From what I can gather the flights aren't every day. As to the number of passengers PAir seems to have been operating that New York flight for some time and has enough information on hand to make a sound judgement. Number of passengers getting on in stop over cities plus the airport fee's and extra gas vs the new plane and better performance.

[Ebauche]

Who did that research? That thing is going to last about 5 minutes. All the Filipinos live in California and everyone on the flights are people that live in the US that are going back to visit family.

Some wet-behind-the-ears analyst likely thought there was adequate biz class demand related to Western executives traveling to their call centers and BPO accounting offices in Bonifacio Global City.

[Mr Enternational]

If I recall, the JFK-MNL service starts in December '18. Apparently serviced by a new A-350 (enough range to fly non-stop). It should be a comfortable flight, but I doubt it will be profitable. MNL has very low yields.

Who did that research? That thing is going to last about 5 minutes. All the Filipinos live in California and everyone on the flights are people that live in the US that are going back to visit family.