General Info

[Red Kilt]

I can't believe how much flak I've generated from what I foolishly imagined would be taken as some very helpful advice for a few guys who are not flying on RT tickets.

The key facts are:

............................................

You have too much free time GL. Why are you so defensive of a point of view that is pretty irrelevant to most of us?
All of your points are speculative and are purely your own opinion as to what might or might not happen.
For those of us who don't want to flaunt with breaking various travel requirements, we will do as we always have and buy return tickets.
If other guys want to follow your advice, then so be it.

BTW, to Mattrick and others: I have NEVER lectured anybody here, and I can't "rain on other guy's parades" unless they allow me. I always give my own opinion and leave it to others to decide whether it is good advice or otherwise. I am as adventurous as the next guy but not in things that have a possibility of coming back to bite me if it doesn't go according to plan. The world is already spooked enough without me adding unnecessarily to it all by drawing attention to myself in any immigration/customs activity.

[GregLondon]

i can't believe how much flak i've generated from what i foolishly imagined
would be taken as some very helpful advice for a few guys who are not flying on rt tickets.

the key facts are:

1 the airlines (at least cebu pacific) and i suspect all airlines are going to ask you for evidence of a rt/onward ticket before they let you board the plane.

2 in my experience the only rp airport where immigration also has a policy of asking to see such evidence is laoag (as of 9 years ago). i've flown into manilia, cebu and clark and have never been asked to show a ticket nor have i spoken to anyone else who has, nor has anyone on this forum come forward and said, "they asked me to show an onward ticket when i arrived at one of these airports." that's not to say that they would never ask anyone, i suspect that if you are travelling on an afghan or somali passport etc you may well get asked. moreover the immigration officer at laoag himself told me, yes they don't ask at the big airports, but things are different here.

how you want to deal with this is up to you. clearly for many it's not an issue as you will have bought a rt ticket in any case. for those of us without a fixed itinerary one option is to buy a eticket with an online airline and then tell them your flight number. this is likely to cost $200 but cebu pacific does have a change booking option (for a few thousand p) so that if you at least know that you will fly out on cp this money may not be completely wasted. a second option is to tell them that you have bought an eticket and tell them the flight number. this second option involves telling a lie, so if your moral scruples prevent you from telling a lie, you better pay up. (and i know what fine upstanding, never tell a porkie, pillars of the community we have in this forum)

what is the downside to option 2? if cp don't believe you they won't let you on the plane until you actually do go and buy the ticket, in which case you will be in the same position as option 1. they are not going to call the police, mark your passport etc etc, they will just give you the choice of missing your flight or really buying a rt/onward.

what's going to happen at the airport in rp? as i said the only airport where i have ever been asked for an onward ticket was laoag which at that time 9 years ago was only connected internationally by flights from china issuing paper tickets. at the other airports i've never been asked. has anyone else recently been asked?? this is probably because they get many flights in from eticket airlines so how can immigration check your story that you have an eticket on xyz? are they going to spend 30 minutes phoning up different airlines to ask about bookings for each of 200 arriving passengers arriving on a cp flight? no they are going to rely on cp to have done that work for them before departure because at least the check in staff have access to their reservation system and the vast majority of customers will be flying back on the same airline.

in the in my view extremely unlikely event that (a) they ask and (b) they try to verify your answer, my experience in laoag was that they would try to make you buy a rt flight.

i absolutely agree with econo tech that the majority of immigration staff take a rules is rules approach unlikely to be swayed by points re the national economic self interest. i have traveled extensively - around 80 countries - and had plenty of run ins with immigration over various issues, and again agree with et that it is disastrous in such circumstances to get at all confrontational or in any way disrespectful. in my experience it is best to maintain a disposition of cheerful, respectful absent mindedness. as et said these guys are generally highly officious and take themselves very seriously. i know of one guy who when stopped by kenyan immigration leaving the country was asked to hand over the approx $10 worth of kenyan currency he had on him (in the days where taking currency out of the country was not allowed.) after an increasingly hostile argument where the guy basically said words to the effect fuck you i know you are just going to pocket it took out his lighter and burned it in front of them. he was sentenced to 10 years in a kenyan jail for defacing the currency but never did get out, dieing of hiv/aids after being repeatedly gang raped. my gf at the time was responsible for monitoring east africa for an arm of the british government which is how i come to know about the story. being a "nobody" without connections to the media/journalists etc there was no campaign on his behalf to get him out and the uk government policy at the time was one of sucking up to arap moi for various reasons so they didn't want to apply any pressure.

[Rubberyman]

7Kgs is all you get?. Damn I think my hand carry case is more than that LOL
!

I am sure that they figure people using the no checked luggage option will be sailing close to the weight limit for cabin baggage. So they check those bags carefully because even if you are only a bit over, they can make you check the bag, and then charge you the healthy extra (I think with Jetstar, it is even more than the original difference between the 'Light' fare and standard).

Whereas with someone with checked luggage, if they get all Nazi about the cabin bag, you can waste time at the check in by opening your to be checked luggage and putting something from the cabin bag into it. They don't want that sort of farting round which gains them no $$$$.

[Rubberyman]

As if the immigration guys don't know.

Me. I been repeating. Why risk it all over a hundred dollar throw-away ticket.

Yeah, and it does not have to be that expensive. All you need is a ticket out of the country to anywhere. A cheap as chips ticket to Sin or Kul on a low cost carrier will do it.

The other thing that has me scratching my head about this is how many people are really affected by this? Surely most of us would have a return ticket anyway? I am often amazed by people paying 500p (and over!) in tips for their barfines, which might add up to 3500P ($80) in a week. Presumably someone wanting to stay a week or less would have a return ticket anyway, and it is therefore those staying longer would spend multiples of that $80 in unnecessary tips - yet groan and grumble and risk a hassle at the airport for possibly much less.

[Lushington]

interested if anyone has experience changing other currencies beside usd at manila airport.

i have indonesian rupiah, chinese yuan and indian rupees.

anyone changed these currencies into pesos at the airport?

i realise the rate will be a bit lower.

would it be better to chage these at angeles or even malate?

thanks in advance,

lush

[Econo Tech]

A typical tourist spending say $100 a day is supporting at least 5 Philippine jobs during the time he spends here.

The very worst that is going to happen to you is that you are going to be forced to get on line and actually buy a return ticket.

Too bad to rain on your parade, but. Let me put it mildly. I lived and moved around Asia for the past 10 years plus, and most immigration guys don't give a rat's ass as to how much of your money is going into the economy.

They too have targets to catch suspects, and no sir, I am not kidding. They will more than go the extra mile to ensure they literally hang a few foreigners, and especially when they have 'suspected' they will loose face if they retreat.

And, no sir, the worst thing is not making you buy a ticket. But getting deported. Well, I know you have been lucky and always have the aura that permeates everything and get royal treatment. Go for it mate.

Nah, I almost got myself a new one ripped, for stepping into Malaysia. For a lesser crime. Namely not having enough RM in my pocket, and that day being a slow day, the immigration officer decided to pull out the rule book and point to me that "FOREIGNERS MUST PRODUCE SUFFICIENT TOURIST SPENDING MONEY" and despite my residency status in Singapore being generally assumed as sufficient, and all my credit cards, probably the last thing the Immigration Guy wanted is loosing face. So he said "About turn, go and withdraw more money and come back, and no- I am not asking for a bribe. " and with that he wrote a note saying he has refused entry for insufficient spending money.

I U-turned the car back to Singapore, crossed, took out 300 S$ and went back to JB and it was the same guy who attended to me looked at me, smiled and said "show me the money" and he just saw me counting and he smiled and said "There you go sir, next time, don't challenge Immigration staff, we don't give a rat's ass as to how much you are worth. But rules are rules" (he was not after bribe and he didn't even touch my money, he only asked me to produce proof. And only later did I find out from other Malaysian Immigration staff, during one of my contracts there, that such 'detection' goes into their performance for being diligent in their job.)

Ever since, I don't like to take the fast lane and see what comes.

I'd rather take a sedate road. And just being a humble joe.

And all that talk of "BE FIRM, DON"T GIVE IN" may work for some, but not all. I have seen guys in even Silky Clean Singapore challenging immigration officers and the officers just smile and say "step away sir, Our officer would like to interview you. " and more than once, while waiting for some friends arriving in Singapore, I saw guys being sent to the 'cool' room and they were let out with no excuse after 2 hours or so.

The most funniest was I was entering Singapore with a carton of Cigerettes, and Singapore doesn't allow even a single pack of duty unpaid cigeratte and in the random scan I was caught, and while the officer was about to launch into a lecture of being a resident and knowing the law, the guy behind me was checked by another officer and he had just a single pack of smokes, and when asked. He started to challenge the officer. The officer who was handling me turned to me and said "drop your carton into the rubbish and walk out, I have something more interesting to do. " and while I walked out. I saw the guy who challenged the officer being held while I was waiting for another friend arriving about the same time. And last I saw. A couple of Men in Blue turned up and escorted him off. I was told the fine for a single packet of duty unpaid cigerette is just upto 300$ plus plus. Or jail in lieu. The guy sounded Aussie, nah. The Singapore Customs didn't bother.

Cheers

[FreebieFan]

When travelling on holiday I never ever have check in luggage, so I use Jetstar's 'Lite' option if I am travelling with them. The warning is that they almost always check the weight of the carry on luggage at check in to ensure it is 7kg or less.

7Kgs is all you get?. Damn I think my hand carry case is more than that LOL

During a recent flight (OK I was relocating and wanted to keep all my valuables with me,) I had 3 carry on bags and checked in 55kgs. OK I was on a superior Asian airline and am in their premium programme, and they just smiled and said have a nice flight. I liked THAT!

[GregLondon]

Deliberately flaunting the law might end up being way more expensive anyway.

I am just telling it how I read it - there are plenty of cowboys here who want to push all the limits as far as they can and when their stunt works they have to get on here and brag about it.
It is not the way I prefer to operate but I guess ISG is for sharing, whether the stunts are legal or otherwise.

RK this is one of those stupid technicalities. The PI immigration don't give a monkey's whether you have a return / open ticket or not which is why in the main entry airports they "never" ask about it. The problem has occured because someone has sent a note to the airlines saying that if someone is denied entry to the Phils and then sent back the airline will be fined i think 50,000 B therefore the airlines have to go through the motions of checking the return /onward ticket issue.

The return ticket legislation is there because someone was worried about economic migration - probably from the days that RP was relatively prosperous compared with the rest of SEA. It's not there to designed to hamper its tourist industry. A typical tourist spending say $100 a day is supporting at least 5 Philippine jobs during the time he spends here.

The very worst that is going to happen to you is that you are going to be forced to get on line and actually buy a return ticket.

Of course if you a businessman running a fixed itinerary or someone ona 2 week vacation its no problem as you almost certainly wil buy a return ticket in any case because on regular airlines RT is 80-90% of the one way price.

If you are flying around asia on budget airlines however its a major hassle. I have no idea how long I will stay in the Phils or where i will feel like flying to next so for me its a significant expense and would be a material deterrent from visiting Phils and not just overlanding through SEA to other countries.

You are probably right that i would be smart to shut up rather than pass useful tips to others, but I felt rather sorry for the guy in the queue before me having to shell out 6000B unnecessarily.

[Buko Max]

It is not the way I prefer to operate but I guess ISG is for sharing, whether the stunts are legal or otherwise.

Where is your sense of adventure!? If you want to be Mr. 'Legal Beagle' and conduct your life by the book that's fine and dandy but don't rain on peoples' parade! It's not like they are going to overstay their visas! :rolleyes:

[Vitrea]

You can used an old itinerary and modify it.

Bingo. That is how I do it. It looks totally legit.

I never knew you can just jot down the flight number and times and show it to them. Hmm, it works? Never tried it.

Actually this is how it works in the west. For years I did this for legit connections in the west (where I buy two tickets on two different carriers if that is cheaper) and no one ever asked me for the itinerary. Agents in Asia are more skeptical. Once, A kid behind the counter in an asian country demanded to see one. It took me 5 minutes to make one on my phone. He was happy.

Someone on this forum said they are worried that Philippine agents are going to start checking. I guarantee you that no one will ever take the time to check. They have zero incentive to do that. If you come across under confident and look like you just committed a major crime, they may not buy your story and not accept it but they will not check. Even if they check, so what?

[Econo Tech]

Happened to my in Macau last year: immigration officer asked for the proof of return I had the itinerary printed in my language (and of course he did not understand a word) so after some light discussion he let me go.

I mean, over there they are trying to attract tourists and visitors, see a westerner and think he wants to be an illegal immigrant?

Was wondering what was the agenda of that guy.

He should leave that procedure to USA "border protection".

It's not about illegal immigrants mate. There are enough europeans and americans who flaunt the law, and work illegally. In Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore and Indonesia, on Social visit pass, doing visa runs every month or so. Until they get stopped and made persona-non-grata or warned to get a proper work visa + pay taxes..

Compared to those days of non-LCCs, LCCs have opened up a lot of options to get 'cheap tickets' and nobody questions you for not using a cheap ticket. In fact, that's another revenue stream for LCCs. They charge you 1$ for the ticket, and 50$ for the airport tax, which they never pay the airport unless you walk in and when you don't. Hey, they are more than happy, and release the 'chance' tickets to others who pay more to fly. Now everyone can Fly.

[Red Kilt]

Open return tickets are often more expensive than a fixed schedule.
Often a good price is for a max no. of days.
The 'open' ticket is most likely the most expensive fare or so.

Deliberately flaunting the law might end up being way more expensive anyway.

I am just telling it how I read it - there are plenty of cowboys here who want to push all the limits as far as they can and when their stunt works they have to get on here and brag about it.
It is not the way I prefer to operate but I guess ISG is for sharing, whether the stunts are legal or otherwise.

[BionicMan]

They said that immigration will demand a return ticket. This is probably false. I have never seen immigration ask anyone for a return ticket.

Happened to my in Macau last year: immigration officer asked for the proof of return I had the itinerary printed in my language (and of course he did not understand a word) so after some light discussion he let me go.
I mean, over there they are trying to attract tourists and visitors, see a westerner and think he wants to be an illegal immigrant?
Was wondering what was the agenda of that guy...
He should leave that procedure to U.S. "border protection".... :)

[BionicMan]

Yes of course, but Ryan are Nazis when it comes to baggage etc as soon they may charge you for using the toilet on board.....cheap and OK as long as you play by their rules

32 kgs is the max but in USA it is 23 kgs..CPac seems to have odd rules at times but still I enjoy the airline

Ryan is out of my books!
I had to fly with them twice as sort of forced to and that was enough eye opener.
Not my cup of tea, but each one his own...of course

[BionicMan]

Unfortunately, the more that you guys talk here about making your own fraudulent tickets then the greater likelihood it is that someone is going to read about it and tip off the Phil authorities who are then going to start randomly (or otherwise) checking the tickets to see if they are real.

I cannot see why you don't just book an open return ticket when you make your in-bound booking. I wouldn't like to be caught as a fraudster and then have a red flag against your passport number for travel to anywhere else in the world.

Open return tickets are often more expensive than a fixed schedule.
Often a good price is for a max no. of days.
The 'open' ticket is most likely the most expensive fare or so.