Davao

[Thaifun]

as ge mentions. discussing the full extent of this would take up far more bandwidth than it deserves. ok, i was exaggerating a bit but let us just say that the ones that like western cities filled with crime and drugs can stay there, and the rest of us can visit asia.

singapore is, as mentioned, a great example of what can be achieved when humanity in some cases is put aside for the best of the majority. did it never amaze you that these crimes are often executed in western societies where everyone have money? no one needs to kick anyone in the face for a cell phone. it is just done because people are sick and free to do whatever they want. it is not crimes related to survival, but crimes related to drugs, inflated egos or just plain boredom and depression.

i unfortunately spent most of my life in western cities so i am not totally lost when it comes to the saturday night scumbags scouting the streets for victims. why don't you visit amsterdam as a good example where freedom and liberalism has had a decade or two to prove it's colors? the bar owners are all armed since the crack addicts routinely try to mug them or their customers while the legal system is just doing. correct. nothing as always!

i am no florence nightingale but have contributed way more than most visitors to the needing in davao. this was done thanks to the climate for companies and visitors that duterte created. so just pointing finger at the absolute harshest part of his policy is like focusing on the mosquitoes while the elephants slip by.

the horrible living condition of those homeless children is not because of the guns, but because of the [CodeWord123] western countries have been a part of for 400 years. the guns are not that expensive and their presense allows some of us to come back and reinvest. this is not about killing children, this is about creating a working society that allows me and other to invest and create wealth, also for locals. a win-win situation.

but for gods sake. be my guest and stay in europe/us and point finger to asia. twenty more years and that will be the the only thing the degenerated europeans and americans can afford.

regards,

barba

my godness, where have you been? you will have to search for trouble in paris and berlin. if you lucky you might find some skinheads if you really try hard and in paris it takes a ticket to the suburbs to find what you state. i do my walk in north paris and enjoy the nights, berlin is safer than a pi police station. i do not see your increase in danger.

last week in nyc was not bad either. felt fine in manhattan, the real danger were obese women. they slip and fall you're done.

the rambos in davao keep a nice distance from foreigners which i do appreciate. i also walk back to my hotel after that nice show down in my favorite disco on c m recto. never a problem, admitted.

i like a small restaurant (cheap place but ok food) near victoria plaza. the kids in the area live on the waste from macdonalds customers. hunting for left overs from the tables.

i just had returned to town, went to the old place around 9. 30 pm or so. two small kids, brother and sister approached, the girl half naked. well i bought them dinner and the kids were happy to watch tv during dinner. i felt totally helpless with the situation. the girl asked for some dress as she was half naked (3-4 yrs old at best). i arranged with the waiter, who knows me, that she would buy stuff for her the next morning and meet with them up. nothing great i did, just did was my jetlaged mind could figure out. next morning to a small place on the coast where food is best and other nice things happen too. perhaps i should have adopted the two right away. at least my mind would be at peace, which it is not since then.

really bad it got when i read about the murdering of street kids by the davao task force and their killing expeditions to tagum etc. they are not against those criminals (guilty until proven otherwise. easy task with a bullet in the head) but against the poor and those who spoil the nice picture.

in other words, the two small kids are in lethal danger. the davao task force might be welcomed by those who are working locally for the big companies and macro economic analysis (if we may call that apologetic talk this way) might offer some excuses. the basic issue is murder and human rights. these standards are not up for discussion. making qualifications just suggest that some guys have gone 'local'.

by the way, there are some minor issues with some misbehaving teenagers (loud kids) in the small town i like. but that is just their jealousy when i walk by with four pretty girls. no kidding. davao is after all a little tame.

[Gangles]

I was reading the posts about poverty in Davao, and in the Philippines. Very few people understand what poverty is about, and what causes it. Most blame the wicked west for sucking the poor places dry.

There are three primary drivers of poverty. The first is endemic corruption. The second is unstable government. The third is an ineffective land administration system.

Endemic corruption causes poverty because it means that the decisions on award of contracts etc are not based on best value, but on who pays most. Mahatir Mohammad in Malaysia solved this problem by charging everyone ten percent. Of course the really corrupt senior politicians like GMA also suck very large amounts of money out of the economy.

Unstable government causes corruption because it means that investors won't invest unless they are sure that their business will remain.

Ineffective land administration causes poverty because when the system is like that in the Phils, title is not assured, then banks will not lend against property to leverage wealth. In developed countries, about 80% of the total wealth of the country lies in the value of property owned.

If any one of these exists in a country, then there will be poverty. In the Phils, there is all three. And the politicians will not change the systems because it is not in their interest.

Gangles

[GoodEnough]

We've probably done this topic to death and I apologize for prolonging the death throes, but there remain a couple of comments I want to make.

Virtually all of the problems in the Philippines are attributable to the overwhelming poverty and to the corruption that is its breeding ground. All of the myriad social problems can be traced back ultimately to this root cause. The sad fact here is that it's not in the interest of politicians and the feudal lords who run the place to alleviate the conditions which allow them to engorge themselves continuously and to perpetuate themselves in power forever. The odds on a young, impoverished Filipino rising about his station in life through dint of talent, hard work and creative energy are extraordinarily small, which is why so many intelligent young people will do whatever they can to get the hell out to where there are actual opportunities.

In Davao at least, there's an overt, successful attempt to create a working civil society from the maelstrom that is most of the rest of the country. One can perhaps criticize the means by which this is being done, but with so few alternative mechanisms available, I'm not really sure what other viable options there may be.Without meaning to be condescending, you really do have to either live here, or to have spent quite a bit of time here to understand.

Situations such as those that prevail in Amsterdam are, in my opinion, what happens when civil society confuses freedom with license, and most social control is loosened to the extent that the right of the public gets sacrificed to the rights of individuals.

Just my two pesos on the state of the world.

GE

[Member #4491]

as ge mentions. discussing the full extent of this would take up far more bandwidth than it deserves. ok, i was exaggerating a bit but let us just say that the ones that like western cities filled with crime and drugs can stay there, and the rest of us can visit asia.

singapore is, as mentioned, a great example of what can be achieved when humanity in some cases is put aside for the best of the majority. did it never amaze you that these crimes are often executed in western societies where everyone have money? no one needs to kick anyone in the face for a cell phone. it is just done because people are sick and free to do whatever they want. it is not crimes related to survival, but crimes related to drugs, inflated egos or just plain boredom and depression.

i unfortunately spent most of my life in western cities so i am not totally lost when it comes to the saturday night scumbags scouting the streets for victims. why don't you visit amsterdam as a good example where freedom and liberalism has had a decade or two to prove it's colors? the bar owners are all armed since the crack addicts routinely try to mug them or their customers while the legal system is just doing. correct. nothing as always!

i am no florence nightingale but have contributed way more than most visitors to the needing in davao. this was done thanks to the climate for companies and visitors that duterte created. so just pointing finger at the absolute harshest part of his policy is like focusing on the mosquitoes while the elephants slip by.

the horrible living condition of those homeless children is not because of the guns, but because of the [CodeWord123] western countries have been a part of for 400 years. the guns are not that expensive and their presense allows some of us to come back and reinvest. this is not about killing children, this is about creating a working society that allows me and other to invest and create wealth, also for locals. a win-win situation.

but for gods sake. be my guest and stay in europe/us and point finger to asia. twenty more years and that will be the the only thing the degenerated europeans and americans can afford.

regards,

barba

[GoodEnough]

Thanks for the feedback. I've never been to Davao, but have been reading the forum because, if I'm not mistaken, there are (or were) direct flights from Taiwan, where I'm based. Anyway, balance between the article and feedback jibes with what I've seen throughout Southeast Asia. Benevolent dictatorship usually turns out to be the best form of government. (Singapore is a good example.) I'm certain all of Phils would do best with an all-powerful, intelligent, and benevolent dictator. Only someone with that level of control can get at the root of so many problems. And hold his own against the Catholic Church, which is outright evil, in my view. Good for Davao, that they may have found something resembling a local equivalent.

Just be careful when the current police chief is replaced, or the death squads go rogue. This form of governmental control attracts all sorts of characters, and can turn sour in the wrong hands.

Well said, and of course you're correct. So far though, the situation appears to remain under control. As to the replacement of the Mayor, no worries. His daughter will likely replace him. Remember too the dynastic nature of politics here. Offices get passed around like appetizers at a cocktail party, with the tray going from father or mother to son or daughter...no newcomers need apply.

GE

[Member #4214]

As usual, a single article does not convey an in-depth understanding of the situation here ... GE

Thanks for the feedback. I've never been to Davao, but have been reading the forum because, if I'm not mistaken, there are (or were) direct flights from Taiwan, where I'm based. Anyway, balance between the article and feedback jibes with what I've seen throughout Southeast Asia. Benevolent dictatorship usually turns out to be the best form of government. (Singapore is a good example.) I'm certain all of Phils would do best with an all-powerful, intelligent, and benevolent dictator. Only someone with that level of control can get at the root of so many problems. And hold his own against the Catholic Church, which is outright evil, in my view. Good for Davao, that they may have found something resembling a local equivalent.

Just be careful when the current police chief is replaced, or the death squads go rogue. This form of governmental control attracts all sorts of characters, and can turn sour in the wrong hands.

[Thaifun]

kenneth roth should send his daughter to walk through paris, new york, berlin, london, etc at 3 in the morning. she would be raped and robbed. 100% sure. why do the west keep on pointing finger to asia?

barba

you better get your facts straight before talking like this. i suggest you do some cross dressing and test your assertion. but that would assume that you wanted to be taken seriously. sorry for the strong language, but you asked for it.
for those who have a heart for killers of children: i guess as long as it is good for business and the company you work for, anything goes, right?

my last visit to davao was nice. i was however appalled at the living condition of those homeless children. maybe some investment in shelters rather than guns would be in place. before some smart ass offers a different view: i did contribute.

[Cansx]

Are there places like Sunflower and Juliana in Davao.

I will be in Cebu for 6 months. I figure I will get bored in the 4 month.

Is it worth the trip I love live music and discos?

Thanks

[GoodEnough]

As usual, a single article does not convey an in-depth understanding of the situation here, and to do so would probably take all of the bandwidth available on this forum. Though what's said in the article is largely indisputable, it's important to put the issue of summary executions into a much larger social and historical context as illustrated by the following two points:

1. Prior to the ascension of the current local administration in Davao, the city was dangerous, crime-ridden, and destitute. It attracted little investment, was poorly managed, and a volatile, unsafe place to live. Since the current administration has taken over, the city has become totally safe, and is attracting enormous investments that in turn are creating jobs and enhancing the overall quality of life for local residents. The justice system of the country is utterly corrupt and ineffective, and the alleged death squads are a testament to such ineffectiveness. The fact is that those who get killed are those who would otherwise plague the citizenry, threatening to return to city to its prior state.

2. The problem is not unique to Davao or even to Mindanao. This is an extremely violent country, and disputes of all kinds tend to get settled with guns. Davao has gained notoriety in this area only because the Mayor makes no apologies for his approach to law and order while other, less forthright politicians hide behind the veil of circumlocution and lies.

For me, the bottom line is that Davao has become an excellent place to live. It's clean; it's safe; it's relatively uncongested and, in in relation to other places in the country, it's booming economically. Part of the reason that the city has begun to attract so much investment is that it's perceived as a stable, safe region in which to do business.

GE

[Member #4491]

kenneth roth should send his daughter to walk through paris, new york, berlin, london, etc at 3 in the morning. she would be raped and robbed. 100% sure. why do the west keep on pointing finger to asia?

there is no evidence that an increase in crime rate has anything to do with this kind of way of dealing with the scum and druggies. this "conclusion" is only made because the rest of roths "report" is just based on his personal view of how the world should work. f*ck the so called democratic ways where normal people have to lock them self in their prisons (barred apartments), old people can not even walk the street in broad daylight and teenagers have robbery and beating up people as a hobby.

if we, like good utilitarianists, look at the “accumulated bad” in each system we can only come to the conclusion that roth should focus on his own neighbourhood instead of clinging to his colonial attitudes towards asia. that train left many decades ago, so forget about teaching the rest of the world how to live! asia will eat europe and us the coming 20 years and i know where i will be.

who is roth to criticise duterte when he is documented as being one of the worlds most popular leaders for a city,area or country ever? asia works for a large number of the "normal population" - more that most western countries can say about their left wing democratic melt downs.

barba

[Member #4214]

Been following this thread for awhile ... thought everyone would find this article interesting re: LE environment in Davao:


Death Squads: A Murderous Plague
by Kenneth Roth

Posted May 20, 2009

When does closing one’s eyes to mass murder become encouragement? The Philippines present that question head-on. An electoral democracy with a vibrant press and competing political parties, the country has moved beyond most aspects of the Marcos dictatorship. But at least one legacy of that dark time remains—a dangerous willingness to use execution as a clandestine tool of government.

Until recently, the victims tended to be leftist party members and activists as well as sympathetic journalists and clergy. International condemnation led the government to curtail these extrajudicial killings, although the failure to prosecute the perpetrators remains worrying. Today, attention is turning to new categories of victims, mostly poor and marginalized, such as alleged petty criminals, drug dealers, gang members and street children.

The death squad capital of the Philippines is Davao City, the nation’s third largest city, located on the southern island of Mindanao. The city’s long-time mayor, Rodrigo Duterte, is famous for projecting an image of being tough on crime. Yet despite his hands-on approach to governance, Mr. Duterte claims ignorance about the so-called Davao Death Squad, denying that it even exists.

A recent Human Rights Watch investigation made a mockery of his denials. Nine insiders described the machinery of death. Current and former Davao police officers and local officials select the targets and equip local thugs with handguns or knives. Riding a motorcycle without license plates, the death squad members approach their victim in broad daylight, often in busy markets, and with no attempt to hide their identities, kill him in cold blood. The killers then nonchalantly drive off, confident that the police, who had been warned of the murder and thus conveniently absented themselves, will take their time to return, and will then perform at best a perfunctory investigation. Witnesses are too terrified to identify the death squad members for fear of becoming their next victim.

More than 800 Davao City residents have fallen victim to the Davao Death Squad over the last decade, and the trend is accelerating; 33 were killed this past January alone. Moreover, death squads have now sprung up elsewhere in Mindanao and beyond.

Mr. Duterte’s response to this epidemic of murder in his city has been cagey. While denying any connection to death squads, he announced this past February that if you’re a criminal, “you are a legitimate target of assassination.” No translator was needed to understand his drift. President Arroyo, who once appointed Mr. Duterte her adviser on peace and order, only recently began to confront the ugly reality of the death squads.

Mr. Duterte’s denials would be one thing if there were serious questions about the existence of the Davao Death Squad. The lack of evidence that Mr. Duterte is personally directing the killing is beside the point. Rather, his denial of the undeniable signals to death squad members and those directing them that he is willing to cover up for their murderous activities. The death squad members are not stupid; they can read between the lines. Mr. Duterte’s blinking at reality suggests a nod and a wink.

Sadly, given the continuing inadequacy of the Philippine justice system, many Filipinos seem to accept the need for such brutality in approaching the nation’s crime problem. But it’s not only wrong to summarily take someone’s life; it’s also extraordinarily dangerous.

Contrary to expectations, the Davao Death Squad has not reduced crime. In the decade since it began operating, crime in Davao City has mushroomed ten times faster than the population. That’s not surprising, since contempt for the law breeds further lawlessness.

Moreover, once the police start playing God, the temptation becomes enormous for them to expand the class of victims. Today, the city’s supposed low-life; tomorrow, political or personal enemies. As Latin America of the 1980s showed, the business of death squads can consume a country, creating an environment where no one is safe.

So it is time for the Philippine government to move beyond unconvincing denials. President Arroyo took a first step this month by ordering the police to “get to the bottom” of vigilante killings. Her powerful executive secretary, Eduardo Ermita, added that “criminality is a social malaise that can never be remedied by such executions,” which he called “illegal” and “immoral.” The test now will be whether the Philippine government takes these strong statements to heart and launches vigorous investigations and prosecutions of those behind this murderous plague.

Kenneth Roth is the executive director of Human Rights Watch.

http://www.feer.com/politics/2009/ma...rderous-Plague

[GoodEnough]

We went last night again to Henny's place, De Bonte Koe, which is not exactly earth shattering news, since we've probably been there about 200 times. From time to time however, I forget how good the food really is. I was reminded again last night with my steak tartar. Now to my knowledge, there are only two places in town where you can order the dish--as least only two where I would eat it--Claude's (Cafe de Ville) and Henny's. The steak tartar at Henny's is, at least in my opinion, far superior.

Henny's and Claude's are, again in my opinion, the best restaurants in Davao and the quality of the food is extremely consistent at both places. I go to Claude's when I get a strong craving for French food, especially duck, and I'm rarely disappointed. I go to Henny's when I want really good beef, cooked properly.

There are new restaurants in Davao opening all the time, and when the new SM and Ayala malls are completed, there will doubtless be even more. But these two remain for me, the best in the city for European food served well.

GE

[GoodEnough]

I got a call Thursday while I was in Manila, from a friend of mine who lives here in Davao. He's an American, and had a restaurant in New Orleans that got wiped out by Katrina. He's now semi-retired, and takes consulting assignments from time to time from groups or individuals opening new restaurants. He'll do the menu planning and oversee the kitchen for the first few weeks. He called to invite me for dinner at a new restaurant, for which he developed the menu and the recipes. It's called Grub, and it's located on Duterte St. just down the street from Galleria Hotel and to the rear of Gaisano South mall.

The place has been open for about three weeks. It's very attractively decorated and the owners have obviously spent some money on the furnishings and decoration, and they have just as obviously had some very professional interior design advice. The menu is unlike that of any other in Davao; a bit eclectic and not at all expensive. Entrees include crispy chicken, ribs, fish and chips, beef stew, and sauteed vegetables. There's a chicken fried steak sandwich, a meatball sandwich and an egg and cheese sandwich and three pasta dishes and there are two desserts; Homerun pie, which is made with peanut butter and chocolate kiss, which is a very rich pastry.

Did I mention there's also a seafood chowder, served in a bread bowl, and an enormous grilled pork chop? The most expensive single item on the menu is Php220 and the two of us ate for under Php700. The bread is all home made, as are the desserts.

The food, or at least the food that I sampled was acceptable, but not outstanding though the service was excellent. The owners, who also did the cooking were gracious and very friendly. The parking in that area is not abundant, but I assume that most of the folks going there from this board will not be driving, and any taxi can find it easily.

I was told repeatedly that as soon as the new flat grill arrives, in two or three weeks, the restaurant will be serving Philadelphia Cheese Steaks. If that's the case, and if they're real Philly Cheese Steaks, I may become a devotee.

GE

[Member #4491]

Thanks Robbaf for the report on casa. This is a scene I have little knowledge about.

When I/people refer to Central Bank it is actually all of Tionko street. If you drive down Torres and pass K1 and the thai place (it is on your left) you take a left right at the high school. First you see the older girls. They are normally also on the streets off Tionko street. Think they are named Arellano street and Mapa street. As you travel down Tionko you will see groups of girls with their mamasans sitting there just waiting for you (r wallet). Many of them are skanks and they normally have a horrible attitude, but some are sweet. As always. Make the deal with the mamasan and make an effort to remember her name if you need to "motivate" the girl. The mamasans come down hard on the girl if she gives you trouble. They will normally ask 1500 for the younger girls. 1000 is no problem. 800 requires some dealing. 500 can work if you are a returning visitor. I normally always pay 1000 and make everyone overwhelmed by happiness and motivation. I see it as an investment in my future. The older, I. E. 25+, will start and end at about half of that of a 18 year old girl.

I have visited C Bank many times over the years but the SW: s interest me less every visit since there is a big possibility one will end up disappointed on her performance or attitude. If I go pro I want to go pro all the way, and not hassle with some tattooed teenage mother that needs to convince herself that she is better than this using a crappy attitude and every possible moment to get off the hook or text her friends on the corner. I need actresses or gf: s.

Barba

EDITOR'S NOTE: I would suggest that the author or another Forum Member consider posting a link to this report in the Reports of Distinction thread. Please Click Here for more information.

[Robbaf]

I was in Davao last week on business and I hired a taxi to take me around to the streetwalkers and Casa's. We spent about a hour and visited nine places. The best sw site was Victoria Plaza and the best Casa was Sawsu. The sw were asking around 1500 LT and the Casa's the same. I found one really hot sw, but she said she was 18 and the gay pimping her asked me why I wanted ID and I told him that she looked 16 and he said, well don't ask the age. Whatever!!! I stayed in the Marco Polo and there was no way that I was going to take a girl who could be questioned. At every site I would say there were at least 10 girls and some had 20. My taxi fare was 120P and I gave the driver 100p tip.

I took a 20 yr old from Sawsu Casa and she was awesome. She wouldn't allow pictures, but I have contact number for anyone who is interested.

Robb