Manila

[Mofo Monger]

Okay, I have to ask: I was on one of those Filipina lonely hearts website. You know the ones.

Anyways, I would get Instant Messenger all the time, but it seems like most wanted me to Yahoo Messenger them. Why?

Do they get a fee or something.

Anyone care to explain?

[Luvulooongtime]

I am an american born meztiso Filipino who has visited the PI many times with perhaps 3 months experience in country. I donot speak tagalog and am thoroughly culturally American.

I have had several run ins with local pinoys that may help others avoid problems. When I was in the province I had a rock thrown at me by a young pinoy, although I do not believe he was trying hit me because he missed by twenty feet. He was apparently jeolous that the local girls at the cafe were going ga-ga over me. I am meztiso and light skinned, which is deemed guapo; . I simply smiled and ignored it and kept on flirting. And left the cafe when I was done with my beer. I am sure if I would have responded there woulld have been a problem. I believe I could have whupped him (I am 6 foot and solidly built with modest knowledge boxing/Filipino escrima/kali, but fighting to me is stupid and dangerous) Maybe he would have whupped my ass, who knows; ). But remember, you beat one others will come and in the end you will lose. So never respond to or escalate provocations, just remain cool and leave.

When in Puerta Galera one of a half a dozen young toughs faked a round house kick at me as I walked down the street with my nephews. I did not flinch but simply looked at him with a look of disdain mixed with pity, then I smiled. At no point did I show fear or anger. His buddies laughed at him. My nephews were with me were relieved. They informed me that if we fight, we have to fight everyone in the neighborhood. I spent three days there in PG and saw the young toughs often afterwards and had no problems. So IMHO, be polite, donot show fear or anger, smile and you should be okay. But donot ever embarass, argue, stare down a local because in the end you will lose the fight. Besides we are there to fuck not fight; )

Finally, despite these minor problems, I feel the PI is safe and fun if you are not dumb.

LuvuLoongtime.

[Spider916]

I cannot comment on philippino guys in AC or the general security situation there, since I hate the place and never go there but in MNL I had a great time with some guys that I met trough work but also with guys that I met in the philipino bars/KTVs on Roxas or in QC. I am talking about uperclass establisments like East Asia etc.

Since an evening a such a place can easily costs 10.000P and more,these guys tend to be well educated and usually very friendly and open towards foreigners. Some might not like Yanks because of the political/historical context, but to an European like me most were either just polite and minding their business or very open and friendly and even offered some rounds of booze. I paid my rounds too of course, but fewer than I got from them.

Since westerners and Filipinos are usually not into the same kind of girls, there is little risk of getting into an argument about a girl with them, instead we had a good laugh about our differences in taste (LBFMs vs fair skinned and tall)

Of course I would not hang around with trike drivers etc at night.

So, yes the PI are more dangerous than most places in Asia but the Philippino people in general are one of the friendliest people I met so far. If you take reasonable precautions like having the mamasan call a taxi for you and not carrying lots of money or flashy jewelery you should be fine even quite drunk. Walking from Burgos to the nearby City Garden hotel has never been a problem.

Have fun



2- Dealing with Filipino men

I would like to offer my own suggestions and opinions on what I have gathered over the years being here in the P.I. dealing with the males here. My experience ranges from knock down drag out fights a couple of times with them to having 5 of them as employees.

There are distinct social classes here in the P.I. and it ranges from the educated upper class Filipinos with money that has nothing to do with the lower class Philippine Filipinos. They don't mix except maybe at family gathering if they are related and there is still anger and animosity towards those with money and those who don't have even if they are related to each other.
The tourists here on fields’ ave A.C. mostly deal with the low end of the Filipinos male class and when they leave the P.I. they have an extremely negative view of Filipinos in general.
When dealing with the lower class Filipinos it is best not to get involved with them. They are very easily offended at any slight that they may perceive is being directed towards them and will react in violence. This is a macho Hispanic culture for the most part.
Stay away from Filipinos who are drinking and politely refuse and just smile if they offer you a drink. Sooner or later you will be the one who will end up paying the bill and it will be very hard to extricate yourself from this position one you have started it without offending them. Filipinos have been known time and time again to kill close friends and relatives over just one insult during drinking sprees and hundreds of stabbings occur in drinking establishments over stares and misperceived threats or insults.
You may be the biggest man in the world and huge, but you will not win in a fight with 20 Filipinos and you will lose and end up stabbed before it is over.
Keeping away from drunk Filipinos, and not engaging in hardcore staring at them and walking away from insults being hurled at you is not being a pussy in the P.I. it is called being smart and surviving to be able to get the hell out of here alive.
I have seen instances when the foreigner has done nothing whatsoever to warrant a jumping by 5 Filipinos or getting sucker punched at night time and robbed. This is just anger spilling over and being directed towards the foreigner who is perceived to have an edge economically and with Filipinos who want to leave this country and will go with any foreigner to achieve this.
Remember you are here as well as I am, with our dollars and we are fucking their woman night and day, hundreds of times. This has been going on for hundreds of years through the Spanish times and American bases and so on. This tends to build up a hatred and hostile attitude towards foreign males in general.
There are some of you who will say bullshit I fucked their sister or aunt or daughter and they don't care or they are happy that I'm fucking their sister, aunt, daughter or whatever and have never said anything to me about it. In their minds they hate you. You are a source of money for them and that is the only way they would ever tolerate you being with their woman and fucking them. And if you step out of line and hurt one of theirs or don't pay up they will kill you or at least beat your ass or try to find you and pay revenge on you.

A foreigner will never be a close friend to a Filipinos as would another Filipinos to a Filipinos. You are a foreigner period. There are also those on this board who have tricked themselves or are in the delusion that they have close Filipinos male friends. If you go to most expat locations outside of fields like La union, Subic, Baguio, etc. the retirees stay amongst themselves and away from Filipinos for good reason and you should ask them why, I did and I do not want to repeat what they told me because I would be flamed to hell and back. Just too suffice it to say that they do it to stay alive and well in the P.I. and when they need a Filipinos to do some job for them or whatever they have them do it and that is it. It ends there. No trying to be friends or best buddies because they know after years and years of living here the truth and how to relate to them.
Some of you may say, Wait a minute I was invited to party with my girlfriends family and I encounter no hostile attitudes and they were nice to me. Yes of course they would not, that would kill the deal and money flow.
To sum up:
Be friendly and smile to them. Nothing wrong with just shooting the shit and saying hi how are you and so on. Shaking hands goes along way also and buying a beer now and then, but not staying to join is a good idea.
Don't engage in serious eye to eye contact as this is a serious threat to them and means war. Sometimes you may get away with it but sooner or later it will catch up.
If you bump into one while walking best to say you’re sorry and smile and walk away. It’s not the right time to argue and shout as this will escalate the situation and the Filipinos will lose face in front of his country men and will have to get it back by violence and others will help him get it back against you.
Don't hit or shout loudly or call Filipinas sluts and bitches in front of a group of trike drivers or males on the corner. Not a smart thing to do. You should get your ass kicked if you’re doing this anyway.
Don't push or shove people in the street. This is inviting trouble. Keep your hands to yourself. I did this to a vendor once who was a little to aggressive and was surrounded by 20 of them in a New York minute and then I apologized and offered to buy him a beer and it was forgotten and settled. I could have been mister big man and taken on the vendor assoc, but i would have lost.
The fights that I mentioned that I was in earlier in my post was just plain survival and their was only two and it was at night and no other Filipinos were around to help them not get their asses kicked. In that situation I used pepper spray and rocks. I'm in good shape and in my late 20's. I don't know if I would have done it again as one of them could have had a gun. Most males who are of the street class carry something as a weapon, whether a ice pick, knife, homemade gun. You never know.[/color][/QUOTE]

[Spider916]

I did not really like the scene in LA cafe and preferred to stick to EDSA and Burgos.

I posted a treat on the photo section about a quite nasty experience with 2 LA cafe girls.

I agree completely with RaZZor. If you're new and you do not know the town, head to LA Cafe as your first stop. It's open all the time and there are women all the time, but it's probably best to go for your first time around 9 PM. At that hour, you're pretty much assured of a decent crowd, and you might even get a seat. By 10 you can forget sitting down because the place will generally be packed.

Stay in the downstairs bars for an hour or so. You will observe a constant influx (and some outflow) of women. Some will hit on you and some will wait for you to hit on them. Some may even shoot you down, but not many and not often. If, after an hour, you haven't found anyone to your liking, head upstairs, which will cost you Php100-150 depending on the day of the week. There's live music (often loud and lousy) in the bar to your left, which will fill up steadily after 10 PM or so. The bar to your right will also fill, but mainly with Koreans (who do not care how much they pay) and largely with girls working for the mamasans. I try to avoid this room.

In the unlikely even that you haven't found anyone after a couple of hours, you can exit LA, turn left, and walk 100 meters or so up the street to Amazonia, which is a bit like LA but never as crowded and not as large. However, you will probably be able to get a seat there and for sure, there will be women, but not as many. If you to not like it at Amazonia, leave, turn right, walk up to Padre Faura, turn right again, and walk about 300 meters to the G Point which is, I think, the nicest (though not the most crowded) bar in Ermita. The walk will take you no more than 5 minutes and it's perfectly safe. G Point has a small combo playing rock and roll and again, there are always women on the make hanging around. It's more laid back than LA and the service from the waitresses is much better.

If, after all this, you still cannot get laid, I suggest grabbing a taxi and taking the Php75 ride to Edsa Entertainment Complex, which has about 8 bars, all with P4P dancing girls. Pick one. Pay the Php1,000 bar fine (which does not include the girl's services) and leave.

I'm not going to give you any numbers because I never do, but following the itinerary outlined above is guaranteed to give you a good time on your first night.

GE

[Emale]

Is it Ceaser's at the Pan Pacific or another?

I would say the ones in Quezon City.

Here is a link http://www.ktvphil.com/

[Smiley2]

Some of this may sound extreme but it’s worth reading, because much of it is true

.

Not! I lived a few blocks from Fields Ave for 6 years and walk around at night alone and feel safe. I've been coming to A. C. Since 1999 and have never seen Filipinos beating on foreignors. I've heard of couple hold-ups, but it seems a rare occurance to me. (But, the post is OK. As a retired expat I have no need for tourists anyway. LOL).

[GoodEnough]

I agree completely with RaZZor. If you're new and you do not know the town, head to LA Cafe as your first stop. It's open all the time and there are women all the time, but it's probably best to go for your first time around 9 PM. At that hour, you're pretty much assured of a decent crowd, and you might even get a seat. By 10 you can forget sitting down because the place will generally be packed.

Stay in the downstairs bars for an hour or so. You will observe a constant influx (and some outflow) of women. Some will hit on you and some will wait for you to hit on them. Some may even shoot you down, but not many and not often. If, after an hour, you haven't found anyone to your liking, head upstairs, which will cost you Php100-150 depending on the day of the week. There's live music (often loud and lousy) in the bar to your left, which will fill up steadily after 10 PM or so. The bar to your right will also fill, but mainly with Koreans (who do not care how much they pay) and largely with girls working for the mamasans. I try to avoid this room.

In the unlikely even that you haven't found anyone after a couple of hours, you can exit LA, turn left, and walk 100 meters or so up the street to Amazonia, which is a bit like LA but never as crowded and not as large. However, you will probably be able to get a seat there and for sure, there will be women, but not as many. If you to not like it at Amazonia, leave, turn right, walk up to Padre Faura, turn right again, and walk about 300 meters to the G Point which is, I think, the nicest (though not the most crowded) bar in Ermita. The walk will take you no more than 5 minutes and it's perfectly safe. G Point has a small combo playing rock and roll and again, there are always women on the make hanging around. It's more laid back than LA and the service from the waitresses is much better.

If, after all this, you still cannot get laid, I suggest grabbing a taxi and taking the Php75 ride to Edsa Entertainment Complex, which has about 8 bars, all with P4P dancing girls. Pick one. Pay the Php1,000 bar fine (which does not include the girl's services) and leave.

I'm not going to give you any numbers because I never do, but following the itinerary outlined above is guaranteed to give you a good time on your first night.

GE

[Thenexus]

Is it Ceaser's at the Pan Pacific or another?

[FreebieFan]

Interesting post about voilence in Angeles. Have only been there once so cant really comment.

I have however driven all round Philippines and never been involved in any type of voilence.I also lived in Manila for 5 years in an earlier life. Most I saw was lots of anger when driving over percieved errors or cutting in etc...

Maybe the voilence is just a Angeles thing, but I really havent seen any and never got into a fight or near one in my time there.. and I can be a dumb confrontational guy at times.

The answer tho is obviously to be aware at all times. Watch the front, watch the back..develop a strong sense of peripheral vision,,and when something doesnt look right it probalby isnt. Thats certainly saved me many times from potential issues, by walking away from possible trouble or taking an alternate route etc.

I was once in a long line of cars on Skyway. Then heard the sirens. The issue.. one guy had not let another car in where the skyways ends and lanes merge.. result being car 2's passener got out and shot the guy who wouldnt let the car 2 in. One driver dead. Amazing.

[Razzor]

gentlemen,

as i wrote earlier, i will be going to manila for my first time. i was hoping if any of you generous kind souls out there can give me some numbers for one or two of your favorite girls (a picture would also be good). i promise to ask first before cuming on their tits, to take pics to share with the board and to pay the girls well. oh and i also promise to slap them on the ass for you too.

anyways, if you can help a nubie monger out, i'd wish good karma for you.

sorry, maybe it's not the how you asked but the way you asked, maybe that’s why you didn’t get a response before. i don't think you will have too much trouble, but just remember be a gentleman to the ladies, if you treat them like a lady and not a wh*re you will have a wonderful time. don't worry, just read the board and you will do fine? start at la cafe first. if you're still having problems getting pussy or finding a girl that will let you blow your load on her susus, then let us know.



good luck.

razzor

below is something i think all first time mongers should know before they go to the pi.
these are two posts by a poster name corpsman on another board, he has lived in angeles city for more than 5 years:

some of this may sound extreme but it’s worth reading, because much of it is true

1-how to avoid getting beat up in angeles city

1) don't be friends, but be friendly to the trike drivers on the corner streets. i have given old shirts and food and pan de sal to trikes that have always greeted me in the streets and said hello to me. on a few occasions this has helped me when young filipinos punks were behind me talking shit and then i went over to the trike guys that knew me and told them what happened and they told those guys to not fuck with me.
2) carry pepper spray, this is legal and you can buy it in the sporting goods store on the ground floor of sm mall.
3) take a trike if you are drunk or if you don't feel good or you’re not up to speed because local filipinos are like predators and can sense weakness and will go after you if they see any angle to attack you on. they will follow you and beat the shit out of you. there is nothing you can do about this and don't think other foreigners will help you. they will be running for their life also and will not want to get involved.
3) pick up a rock and carry it in your hand. throw it at the first face that comes into knife wielding range (or better yet don't let him get that close). believe me if a young male filipinos comes up to you on the street at night he is not there to hang out with you and be your buddy. he is there to rob you and kick the shit out of you.
4) create a buddy system were a group of friends or expats can be called upon to help you home or walk you home or agree to meet together for each other’s protection. this local on expat shit is only going to get worse and not better. it is going to drive out many long termers here and they will head to pattaya like hundreds have already. remember that all these fights are 100% local pilipino on foreigners. foreigners do not come here looking for trouble and they don't expect to get punched for no reason walking down the street.
5) barfine early and eat early and head back home early. no sense walking the streets late at night with a girl. you are just asking for it. even though you can do this in other asian countries like singapore, japan, thailand, etc you cannot do it here in the philippines. these men are predators for your money and for a bite at your ass. all they have is their pride and they are just looking to prove something to their friends and possibly to the girl you’re with.
6) work out if you are going to be here long enough. start running or lifting weights. or do pushups do something anything to condition yourself at least a little bit. this will give you an edge in a fight. the problem is that there are so many foreigners here that look like shit and are out of weight that they are easy pickings compared to the young local punk who gets into scraps for a living.
7) pay the police to escort you home when you are barhopping. they will only be so kind to give you a lift for the right fee. guaranteed no problems with this security plan.
8) hire a body guard for 6,000 a month. the problem is that most guards are the perpetrators of violence on their bosses. they are involved in kidnaps and robberies unfortunately.
9) don't flash money or wear jewelry. when i'm in a bar i put my money down near my leg or to my side. i never put it in front of my face and count out 1,000 peso bills after another. remember that these girls can always call guys up and have them wait for you outside and set you up. it’s been done before.
10) filipinos and foreigners don't mix inside the bars. the girls become shy and stop dancing and feel out of place whenever filipinos come inside. the filipinos like to glare and intimidate filipinos inside bars and they like to start fights. so it’s best just to leave the bar when they come in. get your bill and just leave. sooner or later the bars will start catching on as to why business is sinking faster than a lead weight going to the bottom of the ocean. during the marcos days the bars demanded up front to see how much money they had on them before they went into the bars. they had to have a minimum of 1,000 and they would always keep tabs on their bills. some filipinos males have a tendency to leave when the tab gets high and will try to hustle a foreigner to pay it ( its been tried here in ac).
11)if there is a confrontation do all you can to avoid it. just walk away get into a trike and take off right away. or say to him “listen i will buy you a drink it is my fault" put the blame on you and assuage his ego and tell him how stupid you are and that you don't understand filipinos or their culture. this is almost a sure winner! they save face and you will save your face. that is all they are looking for anyways is to put you down and have themselves one up on you.
12) don't get so tanked up. switch from beer to gatorade to water and back.
there is safety in numbers, if you are a loner then get a trike. don't go with a girl if she appears to have a boyfriend hanging around the streets following her around. this is hard to do i know but better safe than sorry.
forget the disco's here unless you are in the military and you have ten friends in the special forces and you know how to fight and how to disarm a knife attack or ice pick.


2- dealing with filipino men

i would like to offer my own suggestions and opinions on what i have gathered over the years being here in the p.i. dealing with the males here. my experience ranges from knock down drag out fights a couple of times with them to having 5 of them as employees.

there are distinct social classes here in the p.i. and it ranges from the educated upper class filipinos with money that has nothing to do with the lower class philippine filipinos. they don't mix except maybe at family gathering if they are related and there is still anger and animosity towards those with money and those who don't have even if they are related to each other.
the tourists here on fields’ ave a.c. mostly deal with the low end of the filipinos male class and when they leave the p.i. they have an extremely negative view of filipinos in general.
when dealing with the lower class filipinos it is best not to get involved with them. they are very easily offended at any slight that they may perceive is being directed towards them and will react in violence. this is a macho hispanic culture for the most part.
stay away from filipinos who are drinking and politely refuse and just smile if they offer you a drink. sooner or later you will be the one who will end up paying the bill and it will be very hard to extricate yourself from this position one you have started it without offending them. filipinos have been known time and time again to kill close friends and relatives over just one insult during drinking sprees and hundreds of stabbings occur in drinking establishments over stares and misperceived threats or insults.
you may be the biggest man in the world and huge, but you will not win in a fight with 20 filipinos and you will lose and end up stabbed before it is over.
keeping away from drunk filipinos, and not engaging in hardcore staring at them and walking away from insults being hurled at you is not being a pussy in the p.i. it is called being smart and surviving to be able to get the hell out of here alive.
i have seen instances when the foreigner has done nothing whatsoever to warrant a jumping by 5 filipinos or getting sucker punched at night time and robbed. this is just anger spilling over and being directed towards the foreigner who is perceived to have an edge economically and with filipinos who want to leave this country and will go with any foreigner to achieve this.
remember you are here as well as i am, with our dollars and we are fucking their woman night and day, hundreds of times. this has been going on for hundreds of years through the spanish times and american bases and so on. this tends to build up a hatred and hostile attitude towards foreign males in general.
there are some of you who will say bullshit i fucked their sister or aunt or daughter and they don't care or they are happy that i'm fucking their sister, aunt, daughter or whatever and have never said anything to me about it. in their minds they hate you. you are a source of money for them and that is the only way they would ever tolerate you being with their woman and fucking them. and if you step out of line and hurt one of theirs or don't pay up they will kill you or at least beat your ass or try to find you and pay revenge on you.

a foreigner will never be a close friend to a filipinos as would another filipinos to a filipinos. you are a foreigner period. there are also those on this board who have tricked themselves or are in the delusion that they have close filipinos male friends. if you go to most expat locations outside of fields like la union, subic, baguio, etc. the retirees stay amongst themselves and away from filipinos for good reason and you should ask them why, i did and i do not want to repeat what they told me because i would be flamed to hell and back. just too suffice it to say that they do it to stay alive and well in the p.i. and when they need a filipinos to do some job for them or whatever they have them do it and that is it. it ends there. no trying to be friends or best buddies because they know after years and years of living here the truth and how to relate to them.
some of you may say, wait a minute i was invited to party with my girlfriends family and i encounter no hostile attitudes and they were nice to me. yes of course they would not, that would kill the deal and money flow.
to sum up:
be friendly and smile to them. nothing wrong with just shooting the shit and saying hi how are you and so on. shaking hands goes along way also and buying a beer now and then, but not staying to join is a good idea.
don't engage in serious eye to eye contact as this is a serious threat to them and means war. sometimes you may get away with it but sooner or later it will catch up.
if you bump into one while walking best to say you’re sorry and smile and walk away. it’s not the right time to argue and shout as this will escalate the situation and the filipinos will lose face in front of his country men and will have to get it back by violence and others will help him get it back against you.
don't hit or shout loudly or call filipinas sluts and bitches in front of a group of trike drivers or males on the corner. not a smart thing to do. you should get your ass kicked if you’re doing this anyway.
don't push or shove people in the street. this is inviting trouble. keep your hands to yourself. i did this to a vendor once who was a little to aggressive and was surrounded by 20 of them in a new york minute and then i apologized and offered to buy him a beer and it was forgotten and settled. i could have been mister big man and taken on the vendor assoc, but i would have lost.
the fights that i mentioned that i was in earlier in my post was just plain survival and their was only two and it was at night and no other filipinos were around to help them not get their asses kicked. in that situation i used pepper spray and rocks. i'm in good shape and in my late 20's. i don't know if i would have done it again as one of them could have had a gun. most males who are of the street class carry something as a weapon, whether a ice pick, knife, homemade gun. you never know.

[Mofo Monger]

Gentlemen,

As I wrote earlier, I will be going to Manila for my first time. I was hoping if any of you generous kind souls out there can give me some numbers for one or two of your favorite girls (a picture would also be good). I promise to ask first before cuming on their tits, to take pics to share with the board and to pay the girls well. Oh and I also promise to slap them on the ass for you too.

Anyways, if you can help a Nubie Monger out, I'd wish good Karma for you.

[X Man]

Web site says 5000 pesos. For about 80 to 100 US dollars you could probably get a room at Heritage, or 2500 pesos ($60?) a room at Copacabana. These two places are across the street from EDSA entertainment plaza, so you won't have to sleep alone.

These hotels are probably only 15 minutes from the airport. Copa had a fire in one of the upper rooms. The scars were easily visible from Roxas when I drove by in July.

X Man

[color=purple]E, below it the web site. I stayed at the place last April. Nothing fancy, don't know if you'll have any WG around. I had my GF with me. The food sucks at the restaurant. For the short ride you will be jacked for 150php if you use them for pick up. I think it cost the same with the Nissan Taxi so just take them because you won't have to wait.

Manila Airport Hotel
http://www.airporthotelmanila.com/

RaZZoR

[Razzor]

[color=purple]E, below it the web site. I stayed at the place last April. Nothing fancy, don't know if you'll have any WG around. I had my GF with me. The food sucks at the restaurant. For the short ride you will be jacked for 150php if you use them for pick up. I think it cost the same with the Nissan Taxi so just take them because you won't have to wait.

Manila Airport Hotel
http://www.airporthotelmanila.com/

RaZZoR

Guys,

Does anyone know the name of the hotel that is right at the exit of the airport? I come down the ramp to be picked up when I arrive and meet my ride and we go right past it as we leave. Landing in Manila at 11pm and catching another flight the next morning to Leyte. Other than the hotel I am asking about does anyone have any ideas as to a convenent hotel?

[E 7789]

Guys,

Does anyone know the name of the hotel that is right at the exit of the airport? I come down the ramp to be picked up when I arrive and meet my ride and we go right past it as we leave. Landing in Manila at 11pm and catching another flight the next morning to Leyte. Other than the hotel I am asking about does anyone have any ideas as to a convenent hotel?

[L A Guy]

email from her wishing that I had not given her any money. Sometimes you just can't GIVE YOUR MONEY AWAY. Great girl. Again, pure luck.

I got this idea from a friend who had a similar experience where the girl did not want money, I guess they do want / need the money but do not want to be thought of as a hooker or "bought" or whatever. Anyways, just tell them that you really want to stay in touch with them and chat online etc but you realise that the cost of internet cafes every day is expensive for her so you are only giving her the money to pay for her future internet trips when she emails you, chats, calls etc. A nice face-saving gesture for all concerned :)