Manila

[WestCoast1]

I can only repeat that filipinas and pinoys that have been professional colleagues of mine are always very punctual. I understand from acquaintances who employ filipinos in Australia and NZ that they are indeed among the MOST reliable employees regarding punctuality and ability to work as directed.

The pinays that I have met all over the Philippines for various nefarious activities unrelated to work are totally unreliable about time and are the frequent topic of posts here (many exasperated versions of which I have posted). I don't think this behavior can be analysed or categorised by anthropologists, because there is a certain group who can be (are) very reliable.

Concur. When pinay want to be on time, they are on time (or even hours early). I would guess that 99% of Filipino that have purchased a cap and gown are on time for their college graduation. That "time-challenged" trait seems to me (correct me if I'm wrong) to be ingrained in many of the places the spaniards conquered (the latin-americas) where I've visited, not just pilipines. However, the idea that pinoy "can't be on time", or that "you can't overcome their culture" (have been told that on this board and especially in PM, on other boards, in emails and by numerous gents sitting in places like Kokomo's and MBC / LAC) , might be incorrect. Their culture is not to be late. Nor to be on time. Its a dichotomous issue. For some events they are late, and other events they will specifically be on time (or early). I'm not necessarily good at stating which events, but I'm good at stating one of those events: spending time with me. I have a method (not stated here, the method brings out harsh opinions) which has reduced tardiness in returnees to almost zero, and cut way down on tardiness from first-time girls.

[Cucumber]

Guys,

Jumped into a cab in Makati on Monday night, heading for Manila Bay Cafe. The taxi driver suggested he take me to a private apartment- "fresh girls from the provinces", and since I was looking for a girl LT, and it was already 11:30 pm I agreed. After a 10 minute drive across Makati, we stopped in front of an anonymous apartment.

I had exactly the same experience on two occasions, same price, same impression of the girls. I was taken to single-story buildings a five minute drive (in the middle of the night with no traffic) into the low-build areas behind the EDSA complex. For me other options remain more attractive.

[Wicked Roger]

I can only repeat that filipinas and pinoys that have been professional colleagues of mine are always very punctual. I understand from acquaintances who employ filipinos in Australia and NZ that they are indeed among the MOST reliable employees regarding punctuality and ability to work as directed.

The pinays that I have met all over the Philippines for various nefarious activities unrelated to work are totally unreliable about time and are the frequent topic of posts here (many exasperated versions of which I have posted). I don't think this behavior can be analysed or categorised by anthropologists, because there is a certain group who can be (are) very reliable.

I can second that RK having worked with, employed and been the boss of a few pinoys / pinays over the years. Some I speak to about this 'Filipino time' issue are equally annoyed at their fellow countrymen tardiness saying "they would never survive in my company if they were that late"

So is it the water in the country that makes them change here? Is it that we keep them (pinays only) in bed longer letting them enjoy foreign sausages (as the regular hot dog can be boring) another reason? Whatever it is in this country many have no concept of time but when they work in another country and their salary depends on it etc they are able to adapt.

CS congratulations, I have also have some that are punctual but that is only after a few years of 'training' and 'carrot and stick', but it is nice to see and experience at times (unless the earlier girl is still with you still eating the sausage.

[Red Kilt]

I will say that I have come across my first truly punctual Filipina. I have now met her half a dozen times and she has yet to be even a minute late. In fact, she is often early and sits patiently in a nearby Seven Eleven or Mini Stop waiting for me. I don't know how she does it but she does and she is the shining exception that proves the rule.

That's good for you CS that you have "come across" her (insert snigger here) given that she is only a part-time "employee" of yours so she obviously relishes her career prospects.

I can only repeat that filipinas and pinoys that have been professional colleagues of mine are always very punctual. I understand from acquaintances who employ filipinos in Australia and NZ that they are indeed among the MOST reliable employees regarding punctuality and ability to work as directed.

The pinays that I have met all over the Philippines for various nefarious activities unrelated to work are totally unreliable about time and are the frequent topic of posts here (many exasperated versions of which I have posted). I don't think this behavior can be analysed or categorised by anthropologists, because there is a certain group who can be (are) very reliable.

[Cunning Stunt]

Readers of this board are looking for short, sharp, easily understood descriptions of things that they will encounter. I will remember not to interpolate any of your future posts lest I stimulate a series of long-winded ripostes.

Matters not RK. Some, not many, members may be interested in academic debate relating to the Pinay psyche and will read through the posts. The rest will skim or ignore.

I will say that I have come across my first truly punctual Filipina. I have now met her half a dozen times and she has yet to be even a minute late. In fact, she is often early and sits patiently in a nearby Seven Eleven or Mini Stop waiting for me. I don't know how she does it but she does and she is the shining exception that proves the rule.

[Rick5269]

3000 isn't too bad all-in for Makati if there's no barfine etc (when compared to Burgos). Care to share / PM the location?

Guys,

Jumped into a cab in Makati on Monday night, heading for Manila Bay Cafe. The taxi driver suggested he take me to a private apartment- "fresh girls from the provinces", and since I was looking for a girl LT, and it was already 11:30 pm I agreed. After a 10 minute drive across Makati, we stopped in front of an anonymous apartment. Inside there were about 30. 40 girls, definitely all well seasoned pros. I found one I liked and took her back to the hotel- probably in her early 30s, had a couple of kids, but very good in the sack- no complaints.

The cab driver asked PHP 4, 000 LT, which was crazy, I bargained the uncle down to 3, 000, probably still too much- anyone know the right price?

Thanks,

Friendly

[Wicked Roger]

I always tell GE direct if I disagree with anything he says since we meet virtually every week because our offices are close.

SK. This is not a forum for academic debate.

Put very simply, pinays will be late so learn to live with it and all the crazy excuse that go with them being late. They can't tell you 'bad news' so try to sugar coat everything (someone maybe RK said because their diet are soap operas). Trying to understand why etc is something men IMHO are not good at even with western women.

So, however interesting all these books and thesis are / maybe the plain fact is they will be late so plan for it. And if by some remarkable chance they are on time or early make sure you have DNAed the bed after the last girl (or have her leave by a different exit LOL).

[FriendlyPlanet]

Guys,

Jumped into a cab in Makati on Monday night, heading for Manila Bay Cafe. The taxi driver suggested he take me to a private apartment- "fresh girls from the provinces", and since I was looking for a girl LT, and it was already 11:30 pm I agreed. After a 10 minute drive across Makati, we stopped in front of an anonymous apartment. Inside there were about 30. 40 girls, definitely all well seasoned pros. I found one I liked and took her back to the hotel- probably in her early 30s, had a couple of kids, but very good in the sack- no complaints.

The cab driver asked PHP 4, 000 LT, which was crazy, I bargained the uncle down to 3, 000, probably still too much- anyone know the right price?

Thanks,

Friendly

[Red Kilt]

<snip

Back during the discussion that followed your report about the woman arriving late at Mall of Asia, I recall GE observing that for Filipinos,"time is more fungible, more fluid" (or words to that effect). You did not disagree. Do you now disagree with GE's thoughts?

I always tell GE direct if I disagree with anything he says since we meet virtually every week because our offices are close.

SK. This is not a forum for academic debate. I certainly am not trying to score points off anyone, including you. I too, have been through a series of "cultural acclimatisation" seminars and I have read all of Tomas D Andres' and F. Landa Jocano's rather interesting books about cultural mores in the Philippines (simple, cheap books from National Book Store).

Readers of this board are looking for short, sharp, easily understood descriptions of things that they will encounter. I will remember not to interpolate any of your future posts lest I stimulate a series of long-winded ripostes.

Apologies for saying "all" when I should have said "most" or "many" in my earlier post.

[Econo Tech]

If the girl is professional SW, then she will directly head to your room without any companion. However, if it is non-pro and it is your first meeting, you should consider that she have a chance to bring a friend, uncle, aunt, mom, or what-so-ever.

Really?

Then why the aku din chorus from the additional support team when you give some gift to your date?

In my experience Filipinas have been better and closer to being on time than American women that I have dated. Given the jeepneys, trikes and traffic jams they must endure I am surprised they get there in a reasonable amount of time. I have had American dates standing in front the mirror for hours getting ready thinking they were doing me a favor!

I agree with you.

Like on time. Like the girl who took 4 hour by taxi on a Saturday from Pasay to Makati.

You been pretty lucky or dating the right girls. Unlike poor me.

[FreebieFan]

there is a long custome in philippine which is called as "chaperon" (a french word)

it was pretty common custom in europe during middle age that a woman do not go outside by herself. i heard that this custom started in philippines from the time of colonization by spain. in those days, to avoid getting raped by spanish conquerer, girls always accompanied with friends or family members when they go out. that tradition still exists in philippines.

if the girl is professional sw, then she will directly head to your room without any companion. however, if it is non-pro and it is your first meeting, you should consider that she have a chance to bring a friend, uncle, aunt, mom, or what-so-ever.

um i'm sure skip appreciates the well intentioned words concerning the definition of a " chaperone" but hes been on in and around the philippines for many years now and is probably more highly familiar with both the subject and the situation.

[Hutsori]

We banged while the friend slept on the couch.

Amongst some that's what's known as a missed opportunity. ;)

Anyway good going on not letting the surprise spoil your night.

[Ichigo1978]

I miss the days where you could come to this forum and see reports of people's recent adventures. Now you come here and there is either a flame war, a psychology class, or both.

[PussyFeelsGood]

Had a non pro (has a real job) dia girl who I've never met come meet me tonight at 1am for the first time, I sleep weird hours so my only free time is late night / early day and she works days so I explain this is the only time we can meet, on the way she tells me her friend is with her and I think its going to be a wasted night.

We banged while the friend slept on the couch.

[Soapy Smith]

Edward Hall's model might well have been a useful "academic" analysis in past times but one cannot categorise all pinays as part of any polychronic cultural group in this present society.

You are putting words in my mouth. I don't recall posting anything about "all pinoys." In my first extended trip to the Philippines, eight years ago, I received a day long "cultural orientation," as my hosts wanted me and others in our group to understand a few principal cultural ideas such as not "losing face," "Filipino time," saying "maybe" when the real answer would be "no," Filipinos' attraction to light-skinned foreigners, taxi situations, principles of neighborly obligation (as, for example, implied in language such as bayanihan and pagtutulungan) and even toileting practices (like using a tabo in lieu of toilet paper and for flushing the toilet). I'm sure I've forgotten much of what we were told.

As you and others point out, various globalizing forces have injected Western values and practices into some settings in Philippine society. My first several days in the Philippines-and the cultural orientation-took place in Makati, but I was told at the time,"this is not the real Philippines. Most Filipinos think of Makati as a sort of Beverly Hills and will probably never visit here." That may have changed over the ensuing eight years.

In my recent visits I mostly just pass by Makati and Ortigas on the MRT, and end up spending a fair amount of time in slums, where people have only the base of a toilet, and flush it with water dipped with a tabo from a big plastic barrel. So I acknowledge I may be looking at a distorted slice of Philippine society. But, taking your observation at face value, should we assume that trying to give new Westerners some of the ideas in the cultural orientation I received is a waste of time?

Back during the discussion that followed your report about the woman arriving late at Mall of Asia, I recall GE observing that for Filipinos, "time is more fungible, more fluid" (or words to that effect). You did not disagree. Do you now disagree with GE's thoughts?