Seoul

[Phloppy]

Hello, I'll be in Seoul and have a couple meetings lined up. I would like to have a nice love motel with a large enough jacuzzi for two or three prople to jave some fun in. I thouhjt here wiuld be a good place to ask. Any recommendations?

[Bonjovi3]

Very very interesting. Wouldn't this type of dynamic be the case in most places where there's a big enough industry? I. e. There's always going to be the girls chasing only the home runs like the one mentioned here, but a lot of girls just want enough for the next month too. Unless you think this type of behavior is much more common than what you'the see in other countries like the US, which is an interesting theory. One counterpoint to that would be that I've met girls from Korea who come to the US for holiday for the same type of work and talk about how the money is much much better. These are attractive high end girls too. I wouldn't expect that to be the case if there are so many high flier suckers in Korea.

It could just be simple xenophobia, along with the security measures discussed earlier that locks out foreigners. I've noticed that Korea is getting more and more open to foreigners so I wonder if this will change too.

As always, appreciate you keeping an eye on the industry from a broader POV and sharing with us. Out of curiosity, do you always keep an eye out in the news for this industry specifically? Or are you just very good at keeping up with current events in general in Korea. Either way kudos.

I follow the news in general and the news of this industry in particular because I find it fascinating.

You're right that paying huge amounts for sex isn't a practice unique to Korea. I'm sure that there are plenty of women looking for a big pay day and a fair amount of men willing to cough up large amounts of cash all over the world. However, I think the practice is more prevalent in Korea where the tradition of professional mistress has been ingrained as an accepted part of Korean culture for generations.

Let me try to explain in further detail.

From dating to marriage and even to family, gender roles are clearly delineated along similar boundaries across East Asia, and the same can be said for 'relationships' in the sex industry. Now we all know that Koreans hate when Japan is mentioned in the same breath, but there's no point in denying that both countries have strikingly similar attitudes toward women in general and sex in particular, and because the Japanese sex industry is more of an open book, I'll use it to draw out a couple of comparisons that might help illuminate the scene in Korea.

Take hostess clubs as one example of a unique sexual business found in East Asia. I know these businesses are far more common in Japan, but Korea has similar establishments where guys pay to spend time with fully clothed women. Koreans and Japanese alike seem to value spending time with charismatic, charming young women in settings where they can drink, eat, and be merry. This isn't to say that Westerners wouldn't enjoy such an experience; of course they would, but I doubt they would pay for it. And even if such a business existed in the US, it would never be quite as mainstream as in East Asia.

The equivalent in the US might be a strip club, but the experience is completely different. At hostess clubs the women flirt, pour drinks, and light cigarettes. At strip clubs the women are less functional and more ornamental; they provide nothing more than visual stimulation. This might be a particularly reductive way of understanding cultural difference between East and West, but I think it reveals an essential point of distinction between eastern and western attitudes toward women.

One of those differences is the value of virginity and the myth of sexual purity. As far as I can tell, it is important in every culture, but its importance has waned in the West while remaining relatively high in the East. And I contend that this value gets projected onto the sex industry. Consider that women at strip clubs get naked and spread their legs for everyone to see in a public demonstration. We westerners revel in such unbridled, animalistic sexuality. In contrast, I think East Asians like the tease. They enjoy the illusion that they alone might persuade a woman to take off her clothes. East Asian men value women that are only sexual in their presence, I. E. , they like a woman who is only horny for one guy. We might think it is strange that notions of purity have become entwined in the sex trade, or even doubt that such ideas are true, but consider whether there is another place in the world like Miari where prostitutes wear wedding dresses. Of course, there isn't much of a tease at Miari, but it still projects an ideal that is completely at odds with prositution.

Personally, I'm fine with a place like Miari where I know that there's action to be had, but I'm less inclined to spend money on hostesses because the experience is much more like dating in that there is no guaranteed outcome. The only guarantee is that the woman will be polite and flirtatious. When I've gone to hostess clubs I have always felt like I was being strung along, but my East Asians friends were of the mindset that "this is what I came for and this is what I like. " They enjoy the tension, and even though they pay, it was somehow important that they "earn" whatever service they might manage to get from a woman, and so whether it be a flirtatious look, a kiss, or full service in a hotel later that evening, the next day, or the next week the men could believe that it wasn't purely transactional even though they likely paid a large sum of money for the service.

This isn't to say that Korean guys are immune to the allures of a quick BJ or full service massage, but these are offered at other types of sex businesses and by other types of women. These women are sluts and working girls whereas hostesses are something different. Prostitutes in Korea can thus be categorized according to their professionalism, education, and availability. The less available, the more they are in demand. I guess what I'm saying is that the idea of the high end prostitute is further divided in Korea such that some high end prostitutes rarely even have sex and yet earn large amounts of money.

I also think paying large sums for sexual services is more common in Korea because even in the biggest western cities, where men would be most likely to spend exorbitantly, there are only a handful of gentlemen's clubs. And although there might be lots of AMPS and plenty of escort services, there are still far fewer sex services on offer than in just about any East Asian city where countless hostess clubs, noraebang, massage parlors, and the like take up space in every neighborhood.

What I don't know (and which might account for the reason Korean women work in the US) is how much of the money spent in Korea goes to the women. Considering how many pretty women there are in Korea, they might be easily replaceable and thus less able to negotiate for a larger piece of the pie. Also, Koreans have to compete with young attractive Thai and Vietnamese women who are coming in droves to work in Seoul these days. All of these factors may push down their take home pay and prompt them to seek work abroad.

I imagine the US is an attractive destination for Korean women because they can charge higher prices on average and also earn in a currency that is much stronger than the won. The market in the US is willing to bear higher prices because average incomes are higher in the US (the US average income is almost double Korea's average income). Second, American women in the aggregate are relatively less attractive which puts a price premium on attractive women. Third, although prostitution is illegal in the US and Korea, it is seemingly more illegal in the US which has the effect of pushing prices even higher. Taking this into consideration, I'm almost certain that there is less supply and more demand for good-looking prostitutes in the US, and I think it's safe to assume that Koreans who go to the US are able to fill up every available appointed time in their schedule should they wish.

One final thought on an already overly long post is that there's probably also less emotional work for the Korean women working in the US. Unlike in Korea, they don't need to establish an emotional connection or pretend to be pure and innocent with customers in the US. Westerners are much more likely to get right down to business. Add to this the fact that Korean women can live relatively anonymously in the US, which is hard to do in a place like Korea, and it makes a ripe environment for Korean women who might want to get away for a while.

[Dissolvd]

I spent about 1 week in Seoul and here are two reports I wanted to post about.

I went to Itaewon RLD on a Thursday evening (I thought avoiding the weekend would get me a better deal). There weren't that many women working that night, but one of the mama-sans did hook me up with a girl who claimed to be 33. Now, I'm a 32 year old guy so I can confidently say that this girl was closer the 43 than she was to 33 LOL. But that's okay, because she was actually pretty hot and had a really good attitude. To me attitude especially matters a lot since I don't want it to feel like a mechanical chore. Also, she was Korean which is what I was hoping for as well. Anyway, she took me to a private room nearby. I paid 140 k Won for 1 hour of service which included BBFS and CIP, which I was able to do two pops in that hour. The mama-san and the girl both had decent English, I didn't need a translator app at all (I speak no Korean BTW).

What was the name of the shop and where was it? 140 K for 2 shots is a decent deal here, especially if the provider was friendly.

[Cork2023]

My own apologies now for the delayed response. I missed your initial response somehow. Agreed that there's a whole world just for groups (as well as discounted rates sometimes I hear if the group is big enough) and I'the be excited to explore. I didn't even realize opgani had a messaging / reservation system. I just saw phone numbers mentioned everywhere so assumed that was it. Is it their own messaging system? Or just email or something you message separately?

The forum messaging system is odd. My google-male is my username here x 2 if you want to reach out to me there. (kmax212 kmax212).

Sent a message, maybe check your junk / spam folder if you don't see it.

[GatorEngineer]

Hi long time lurker infrequent poster. I will be staying at the Grand Hyatt, I assume the best place walking distance to look is Itaewon?

Anyone know if the Hyatt is girl friendly? Any chance of any action from the bar?

Where is the Hill?

And MR is what website.

I have a thing for Russian / Eastern European women, wondering what I can expect to pay in Seoul. Is there anywhere to find those in the wild?

Thanks and hope to share my results. I often use Seeking in the US, and am trying for Seoul as well but the numbers I am getting back are ridiculous $600 USD.

[KMax212]

My own apologies now for the delayed response. I missed your initial response somehow. Agreed that there's a whole world just for groups (as well as discounted rates sometimes I hear if the group is big enough) and I'the be excited to explore. I didn't even realize opgani had a messaging / reservation system. I just saw phone numbers mentioned everywhere so assumed that was it. Is it their own messaging system? Or just email or something you message separately?

The forum messaging system is odd. My google-male is my username here x 2 if you want to reach out to me there. (kmax212 kmax212).

Hey KMax212,

Sorry for the late reply, was away from my computer for a bit. I would be open to it. The shirt rooms, NRBs, and host bars require a group and would be scary as hell to enter alone. But I can't figure out the messaging system and don't know enough about the forum rules though. If you have any bright ideas, I'm all ears.

I will report back that I've had good success getting a couple hyugatels and kiss rooms from opgani12 to send me their line-ups and start the reservation process. It's got to be 100% in Korean and I'm starting to pick up the lingo they use. About 75% of them asked me to call though to confirm which is where I hit a roadblock as I don't have a Korean phone but hoping to pick up a burner tomorrow.

[KMax212]

Very very interesting. Wouldn't this type of dynamic be the case in most places where there's a big enough industry? I. e. There's always going to be the girls chasing only the home runs like the one mentioned here, but a lot of girls just want enough for the next month too. Unless you think this type of behavior is much more common than what you'the see in other countries like the US, which is an interesting theory. One counterpoint to that would be that I've met girls from Korea who come to the US for holiday for the same type of work and talk about how the money is much much better. These are attractive high end girls too. I wouldn't expect that to be the case if there are so many high flier suckers in Korea.

It could just be simple xenophobia, along with the security measures discussed earlier that locks out foreigners. I've noticed that Korea is getting more and more open to foreigners so I wonder if this will change too.

As always, appreciate you keeping an eye on the industry from a broader POV and sharing with us. Out of curiosity, do you always keep an eye out in the news for this industry specifically? Or are you just very good at keeping up with current events in general in Korea. Either way kudos.

https://n.news.naver.com/article/366/0000901499

Online prostitution mediation site owner sentenced. It's an interesting read for those wondering what's happening to the sex trade in this country.

https://n.news.naver.com/article/032/0003223540

If you thought service in Korea was expensive, it is potentially even more expensive than you would have ever thought possible.

The John in the article spent nearly 100,000,000 won a year on one woman, resulting in 900,000,000 won having been spent over roughly 10 years. Doing some napkin math shows that the John could have gotten anywhere from 500 to 1,000 encounters with as many as 500 to 1,000 different women for the same amount of money he paid one woman for one year's worth of service. And only he, her and God know how many times he actually nutted in her each year for such a large sum.

This article is particularly interesting if you read between the lines and extrapolate how this might relate to those of us on this forum. Careful readers might begin to understand why many Korean women won't deal with foreigners. With foreigners who cannot communicate with the women, there isn't the remotest possibility that the women will be able to earn such a large paycheck. All the cute pouting and endless cries of Oppa won't earn a working woman an extra cent. Most foreigners aren't paying for an ego boost and have no intention of becoming the victim of a love scam. I think it's fair to say that we just want to fuck, and a lack of Korean communication skills actually makes us immune to the emotional tactics employed by these women.

Based on the high prices of Korean OP services in Seoul, it is likely that these women are on the hunt for just the sort sugar daddy that's described in the article. Logic suggests that if a guy is willing and able to pay 1,000,000 won for an hour or two, and a women is able to seduce such a guy and make him fall in love, then her potential earnings are limitless. I'm sure not all sugar daddies are this lucrative, but I'm almost certain that the women working at OPs can smell these sorts of guys from miles away.

However, if I had that much disposable income to throw around, who's to say that I wouldn't also pay a stipend or a retainer to keep a bit of young tail nearby. Who knows, maybe this amount of money is like pocket change to these guys.

[MMFgBangLover]

The mama-san was short and stocky had her hair up in a bun and was wearing what appeared to be a nightgown? I forgot what the name of the place she was at was called, but if you start at the bottom of the hill / street and walk about 2/3 of the way up it'll be about there, on your left. The actual girl was wearing a super lowcut top, her tits like popping out kinda in your face. Her build was average, she wasn't thin but wasn't chubby. It also looked like she had some kind of work done to her hair. Maybe highlights? Or tips? It wasn't quite the jet black Korean hair you expect even though she was Korean.

Was the bar modern looking or run down? And was she tall, short, pale, tan, some tats? There's nothing on the left side except a waxing place at the top.

I did find a blonde stocky mamasan and a woman she works with named Michelle. She had streaks in her hair. She was short or average,165 cm maybe 5'5, wearing a one piece dress and tatted on the back, I think. Said her room was up the hill around the corner. Was that her? Didn't go for it, because much older than expected.

[MMFgBangLover]

Thanks for your writeup on your experiences. I still have yet to visit them myself. What did you get at The Hill - 80 k for one shot hh? Same at YDP for 100 k?

At YDP each girl could be different but been told 100 k for 15 min, 300 k for an hour, 550 k for 2 hours and 700 k for 3 hours. The alley girls said 80 for 15,150 for 30 and around 250 for an hour. Don't recall hh, but with the window girls it's probably 200 or a small discount from that.

[Cork2023]

MR: nearly every girl on there is an hour with 1 shot making the price more than back in the states. I was able to see Jisoo for 120 k for 15 minutes. Good session.

The Hill:

To those who don't know, the hill itself is pretty empty. The top of the hill is all trans. There is one spot up there, Evergreen, and it was only open on the weekend. Other than that, the rest are at the bottom of the hill and perpendicular to it. There were 4 or 5 places open at various times. Only one that seemed decent was Nymph with I think her name was Mimi, she had a nice body and was youngish at probably 30's. Rest were older from what I saw. Saw her for 80 k.

K:

I did try the kiss bang in Hongik. It cost 80 k for an hour and I could not get a half hour rate to get in. Once in, the girl came in and only offered a HJ after just a couple of minutes of kissing for 50 k. Overall, pretty lame, would not recommend at that price.

YDP:

Went by 2 nights (first time was just to check it out). This is where it is at. Went with one girl who seemed in her 20's and was very hot. As a white guy, most of the girls called me over so they seem willing to see foreigners to me at least. She offered 100 k off the bat and I didn't bother negotiating and just went with it.

Miari:

Was more curious than anything, but if I had a good deal I would have gone in. None were willing to do 2 shots for 100 k which is what I was looking for. Got invited to a few, but the way it is setup just seems really weird and off to me. Just didn't get a great vibe as it is in this dark long alley and the girls are just sitting there once the doors open. I'd much prefer YDP where the girls themselves are the ones calling you over rather than just being sold to you by a Mamason.

MVP-VIP:

Lastly, in Gangnam, went in to this place and they quoted me at 130 k for a half hour. Massage was ok, then the fun afterwards was good. Lady was probably late 30's at best.

Thanks for your writeup on your experiences. I still have yet to visit them myself. What did you get at The Hill - 80 k for one shot hh? Same at YDP for 100 k?

[LonoGod]

I would be interested in going as a group somewhere as well.

What is opgani12?

I would be interested in joining a group to explore. I'll be in Seoul Thursday night, Friday night and Saturday all day.

[LonoGod]

I spent about 1 week in Seoul and here are two reports I wanted to post about.

I went to Itaewon RLD on a Thursday evening (I thought avoiding the weekend would get me a better deal). There weren't that many women working that night, but one of the mama-sans did hook me up with a girl who claimed to be 33. Now, I'm a 32 year old guy so I can confidently say that this girl was closer the 43 than she was to 33 LOL. But that's okay, because she was actually pretty hot and had a really good attitude. To me attitude especially matters a lot since I don't want it to feel like a mechanical chore. Also, she was Korean which is what I was hoping for as well. Anyway, she took me to a private room nearby. I paid 140 k Won for 1 hour of service which included BBFS and CIP, which I was able to do two pops in that hour. The mama-san and the girl both had decent English, I didn't need a translator app at all (I speak no Korean BTW).

On a separate night, I went to a Thai massage place in Jung-gu that I think was called something like "Siam Massage" or whatever. It was on the second floor of a building on some alley near a hotel. I paid the house fee to get in and I got a super cute Thai girl who was actually young. If I had to guess she was late 20's. The massage itself was actually really good, like if I had just gone there for that and left I definitely would have gotten my money's worth. Anyway, after the flip we started negotiating. She spoke almost no English so I did have to use a translator app (translating into Thai, not Korean LOL). Anyway, she originally asked for 100 k Won for a single pop. I negotiated her to 160 k Won for 2 pops. Anyway, she refused to do BBFS or CIP even when I offered to throw in an extra 50 k it was just a hardline no for her. Fair enough. So we did do CFS and she also did BBBJ. She was very tight and definitely got my first load out very quickly. The only thing I'd complain about is that the room they put us in had a single bed which barely fit us even though she was short with a spinner type body. Like I would have rather us just go back to my hotel but I get that she had to work and couldn't leave that place.

All in all, both experiences were interesting. Definitely way cheaper than what I'd be able to get back in the US. Idk if I'd want to repeat with either girl simply because I think I could do better? This was my first time mongering in Seoul and I speak 0 Korean.

Was the name of the Thai massage place King Thai what Pho?

[Pluto1]

MR: nearly every girl on there is an hour with 1 shot making the price more than back in the states. I was able to see Jisoo for 120 k for 15 minutes. Good session.

The Hill:

To those who don't know, the hill itself is pretty empty. The top of the hill is all trans. There is one spot up there, Evergreen, and it was only open on the weekend. Other than that, the rest are at the bottom of the hill and perpendicular to it. There were 4 or 5 places open at various times. Only one that seemed decent was Nymph with I think her name was Mimi, she had a nice body and was youngish at probably 30's. Rest were older from what I saw. Saw her for 80 k.

K:

I did try the kiss bang in Hongik. It cost 80 k for an hour and I could not get a half hour rate to get in. Once in, the girl came in and only offered a HJ after just a couple of minutes of kissing for 50 k. Overall, pretty lame, would not recommend at that price.

YDP:

Went by 2 nights (first time was just to check it out). This is where it is at. Went with one girl who seemed in her 20's and was very hot. As a white guy, most of the girls called me over so they seem willing to see foreigners to me at least. She offered 100 k off the bat and I didn't bother negotiating and just went with it.

Miari:

Was more curious than anything, but if I had a good deal I would have gone in. None were willing to do 2 shots for 100 k which is what I was looking for. Got invited to a few, but the way it is setup just seems really weird and off to me. Just didn't get a great vibe as it is in this dark long alley and the girls are just sitting there once the doors open. I'd much prefer YDP where the girls themselves are the ones calling you over rather than just being sold to you by a Mamason.

MVP-VIP:

Lastly, in Gangnam, went in to this place and they quoted me at 130 k for a half hour. Massage was ok, then the fun afterwards was good. Lady was probably late 30's at best.

[OohxTasty10]

You should try YDP RLD and Miari and see how it goes? Those would be my first 2 stops.

I'm not in town anymore but I remember stopping by the YDP RLD and most of the korean girls straight up cold shoulder'd me because I'm not Korean. I didn't try very hard though maybe I'd have better luck if I was a bit more thorough.

[Cork2023]

Hey KMax212,

Sorry for the late reply, was away from my computer for a bit. I would be open to it. The shirt rooms, NRBs, and host bars require a group and would be scary as hell to enter alone. But I can't figure out the messaging system and don't know enough about the forum rules though. If you have any bright ideas, I'm all ears.

I will report back that I've had good success getting a couple hyugatels and kiss rooms from opgani12 to send me their line-ups and start the reservation process. It's got to be 100% in Korean and I'm starting to pick up the lingo they use. About 75% of them asked me to call though to confirm which is where I hit a roadblock as I don't have a Korean phone but hoping to pick up a burner tomorrow.

I would be interested in going as a group somewhere as well.

What is opgani12?