Other Areas

[Girls Rok Me]

couldn't agree with moody anymore.. enough of the prices going up thing. start accepting the reality that it is. i would rather live here then anyplace else.

as far as the attitudes towards americans, i have not experienced anything out of the ordinary. matter of fact, attitudes here are way better then on the streets of l.a.,nyc, atlanta or even valdosta ga.

i travel this country every mon-fri for my job. i live in songtan and go to every usfk base in the country. i stay often times in hotels and experience the local's everywhere i go. i am a white, grey haired american. i get treated with respect everyplace, with the exception to the gi bars up around casey in tdc and stanley in uijonbu. there they do come accross as money grabbers.

i just try to speak as much of their language as i can, display the same curtosy that they display amongst themselves (yes even buying a pack of smokes at a store, you say the right thing and they smile everytime) and it goes a long ways.

i have had a conversation with a guy in a resturant where at he was taking the side that america is the problem with reunification. i had my opinion. did he hate me? no way,, we sat there and he bought 2 bottles of soju, i bought 2. poured his drinks, he poured mine. it was just his opinion, just like all of the protestors on the streets in the u.s.a. have opinions too. but he treated me with respect, just like the respect i showed him. now if i wanted to be the stupid ass american who thinks he is always better then anyone else,, then i'm sure it would of been a different experience.

does korea have problems? you bet. but i don't see a kid walking into a school and killing people, or 10 year old girls getting kidnapped, raped and killed every other month. the only problem i have is, too many cars, and too many beautiful korean girls of which i do not have enough time to show them a little r-e-s-p-e-c-t my way.

lets talk about tits, ass, and kimchee flavored girls...

[Moody]

What's with all the negativity about the money? Like I said, everything goes up in price over time. That's inflation, that's just the way it is. My father had an apartment in Seoul in the 70's. He sold it back then for what was $5000. Now, to buy a similar one would be over $500,000. That's what you get when you have a small country that has experienced a population explosion in the last 30 years. I bet 30 years ago, you guys made a lot less money than you do now. Again, it's inflation. We like to think that when we get paid more, it's because we deserve it and when things get more expensive, we're getting screwed. That's not the case at all. Everything gets inflated over time, both salaries and prices. I remember my childhood in the 70's. Back then, I could go to the local grocery store and buy some cookies for 1 won. Nowadays, you can't buy anything for 10W let alone 1W. That reflects both inflation and development of the country. In the early 80's, 20K won was considered a decent chunk of change. Now it's barely enough to get you lunch at good hotel. In the 80's, a monthly salary of about a million was considered a very good living. It's not that way anymore. Again, that reflects both inflation and a developing economy. Hell, in the 50's, you could probably gotten a girl for a couple of bucks or maybe a couple of cans of Spam.

I have to admit though, attitudes towards Americans have been changing. It used to be that Americans garnered a lot of respect. It even used to be that if you were Korean-American, they thought you were something special. It's definately not that way anymore. Personally, I think the shift in thinking stems from recent reunification popularity. Personally, I think it's nonsense, but that's not how everyone feels. Furthermore, as time passes, the generation from the Korean War is getting older and the memories of heroic GI's from that time period is getting more and more faded. There was a time when MacArthur was considered a national hero. Not so anymore. I think the one thing a lot of you guys are missing is that the country has gone through an incredible amount of changes in the last 30 years. You're talking about going from a dictatorship to a multiparty democracy. You're talking third world economy to one of the Asian miracle countries. You can't expect that kind of change without change in the attitudes of the people. Even in the US, when I went to school 30 years ago, it was perfectly safe to walk to school and even hang out outside, even at night. Now you have to be on the lookout for child molesters on every corner. Just accept it for what it is and stop talking about how good it was back in the "good ol' days."

[Yella Man]

Right on Soju! By paying higher and higher prices over the years, Mamasan has figured out that G.I. will do anything for a piece of ass. So what does she do? Keep jacking up the prices! So what do we do in return? Complain and pay! If we had stopped paying higher prices a long time ago and had told Mamasan to fuck-off, we would be paying more moderate prices today. Me, I'm a BBS man myself. You can't beat the time spent there cost wise. We are being robbed because we are americans and have been trained to pay those exorbitant prices over the years! Wake up fellas! There are other opportunities out there. You just have to spread out and find them! Keep it real guys!

Yella Man

formerly: Travaholic

[Darren 33]

Well Soju Lizard said it all. I can't understand how people can spend 300,000 to get some in Itaewon, or buy those sluts 20,000 drinks. No way, plus as you said their attitude has gotten real bad. I think a lot of guys should wake up, not take any shit, and realize that those girls have NO way of making any money without us giving them any. So guys please next time that some girl quotes you 200 bucks for a fuck or 20 bucks for water, tell her to buzz off and go somewhere else.

[Soju Lizard]

I was in Korea in the late 80's, the mid 90's and since 2001. This country has changed both in attitudes and prices more than any other country in Asia.

In the 80's a short time went for 20,000 won, girls drinks were about the same as regular price (maybe 2,000 won more) and the mamasans treated the regular customer soldiers and civilians like family. All of the working girls were Koreans. In the 90's, short times went up to the 150,000 range, juicys jumped to 10,000 won, the focus became more on girls hustling drinks but you could still buy ass, the first Flips and Russians started to arrive and the mamasans (with few exceptions) only really looked after their best (I.E. the ones who spent the most) customers. Now, pussy can cost up to 300,000 won if you are lucky to find a bar selling it, the total focus is on juicys, most of the girls are Flips/Russians and the bar owners have little regard for any customers unless they are spending a lot.

For the goob that compared that to buying a pack of gum at Wal-Mart...I'm no mathmetician but the ballpark figure is a piece of ass has gone up about 1,400 percent in the last 20 years in the military villes in Korea. Even a green hayseed that's never heard of a donkey show must agree that's a little excessive. Tell me one other thing you can think of that's gone up 1,400 percent in the last 20 years. Using your example, a pack of Juicy Fruit that cost 25 cents back then would cost $3.75 today. Would you pay $3.75 for a pack of Juicy Fruit?

To compare with other ho action in Korea...a piece of ass in Miari in the late 80's cost 30,000 won. It now (as of March 2005) costs 50,000. That's an increase of under 50 percent. Big difference ain't it hayseed?

But the price difference isn't the worst thing. That would be the attitude of the girls. No longer having to spread their legs due to the idiots that are willing to pay up to 20,000 won for an orange juice or barley tea they now seem to think their pussies are made of gold. Perhaps they're right.

There are still some good places to go in Korea but they are vanishing rapidly. The current Army leadership is partly to blame for their over zealous attempts to keep soldiers from having sex but the USFK personnel that treat these women like queens and waste money on juicys in the ridiculous quest for lunch dates are also to blame. It's the goobs that rollover by paying crazy prices for barley tea and are willing go home with blue balls in the hopes that Ms. Ho might be his girlfriend that have ruined Korea.

Thank goodness for the barber shops, anma's and train stations. Let's hope the hayseeds don't discover them too. Call me old fashioned, but I have no desire to romance a ho. I just want to lay the money down, take care of business and be on my way. If you want to date 'em then keep buying those juicys. I hear they like Juicy Fruit gum too. I'll sell you some for the discount price of $3.50 a pack.

[Handyman #2]

Moody,

No I am not the old guy that lives in the past, although I wish we could reverse some of the modern thinking and attitudes - especially in education!

I have visited Korea at least every other year since the early 70s (when Song Tan Si only had the main street paved) and while it was slowly modernizing the attitudes had not changed much until the late 80's and early 90's (after the Olympics). They were always helpful, especially if you spoke even a little Hongul. I made many life long Korean friends, and even married a Korean girl. And I did invest in the Korean ecomomy by buying property in Seoul, Song Tan Si, Taegu and Pyonteak. My partner is a Korean I had met in Viet Nam and he is more like a brother than a friend or partner. I invested the money and he rented and maintained the properties, then we split the profits 50-50. When I took him on as a partner, he was driving a taxi and living in a one room apartment with only outside plumbing and barely getting by.

Over time we built this into a very good business and I purchased more and more properties. I realized that he was spending all his time managing these properties, so I insisted that he take an additional 10% maintence fee before the 50-50 split. He refused, so I started a college fund for each of his kids instead. When I was not stationed in Korea and after I retired, I knew he was looking out for our best interests. When I returned for a visit, he always insisted that I stay with him, although I had my wife's family to stay with.

My last visit in January was strange! First of all he didn't even ask me to stay with him, although he had recently built a very large house. But he did book me into a nice hotel at a Korean's price. He didn't meet me at the airport (something he has always done before). After two days, he finally came to visit me in the hotel and I sensed a drastic change in his attitude.

I have always trusted him COMPLETELY, and he had never betrayed my trust before. But now I felt he was different and after visiting several other friends, they also seemed different. Was it me? Maybe I was getting parnoid, and I was a little sick at the time too. After a week, the feeling still hadn't gone away, it had gotten stronger, so I started checking. A visit to a Song Tan Si orphanage revealed that he had made a much smaller donation than what was specified and what he showed on the books. A visit to the different base housing offices revealed that my properties had been vacant very seldom (but the books showed a 25% vacancy) and that the rents being charged were 25% higher than what he was showing on the books. We had even gotten some warnings about not repairing the properties in a timely manner, although he was showing a 15% increase in maintenance costs. The strange thing was that this fraud has all started happening in the last 2-3 years. I am very dispirited over this turn of events and have hired an outside auditing firm to find out just how much he has stolen from me. I haven't gotten the results back, but have been told that he has been less than honest. Now I will have to decide whether to press charges or not. At the very least, the partnership is over.

If he was the only one that had a change of attitude (and morals) I would not worry too much, but I also found it among many of my other long time friends. Now I am trying to decide whether it is time to sell out and reinvest else where (possibly South America). Property values have increased HUGELY since I bought them.

I doubt that I will want to travel back to Korea very much in the future just because of the change in attitudes I experienced during my January trip.

Sorry to have "vented" like this, but if others have also invested in Korea, my advise is to watch the books closely. It seems like it is now okay to cheat an American, even if they are more than friends.

[Moody]

Handyman,

Moneywise, everything is more than it was in '72. In '72, a Cadillac cost $5000. Now you have to pay almost $40,000. Comparing prices form '72 to now doesn't make any sense. You almost sound like those old guys who go to Wal-Mart and say to the cashier, "now when I was a kid, a pack o' bubble gum cost a penny!"

Concerning the other part about attitudes, I might have to agree with some of that. I think it's part of the democratization of Korea since Kim Dae Jung. S. Korea wants to play nice with N. Korea and a lot of Koreans feel that the Americans are an obstacle to an eventual reunification. In the '70's, '80's, and even the mid-'90's, there was always the sense that reunification was a pipe dream. Now though, there's a different feeling about it and the general feeling is that Americans are getting in the way. There's no longer the feeling that Americans are the guardians of S. Korea. More and more people feel that the US Army is just nothing more than an anachronism.

Regardless, Korean women are some of the most beautiful women in the world. It's been over 2 years since I've been there, and I miss it a lot.

[Handyman #2]

Girls ROK Me and Magic501;

I was not just talking about the cost changes. Re-reading my post, I can understand where you understood it that way, and I apologize for not making myself plain.

I felt that the whole attitude has changed drastically over the last ten years, more than it has in the previous 30. Song Tan Si no longer has that safe and secure feeling it used to have. The store owners (many of them good friends of many years) told me that crime has really increased, even more so against Koreans. While they seem to make as much money as they did before, they don't feel as secure as they did before.

In the 70's to mid 80's, if a GIs got drunk and lost, someone (usually a Korean) would make sure they got back to the gate (unharmed with their wallet). This was about 90% of the time. In the late 80's to 90's, the drunks still seemed to make it back to base with assistance, but some of them had lost their wallets along the way. From what I understand (from talking to a few shop owners and some GIs) you now have to watch yourself if you are walking alone.

So what I was asking is why the attitudes have changed so much in the past 3-5 years (last time I visited was 1998)?

[Sam Katz]

you mongers, come to Seoul and i'll show you how to get non hooker korean girls that look better and are classier then any pro.



Sam Katz aka ....

[Magic501]

Girls Rok Me, don't be to hard on Handyman2. He forgets that things do change all over the world. I was there in '84-86 & '89-93 and it was beginning to change at that time. I agree-Koreans are some of the hardest working people I have known and have much to be proud of in thier country. He's just lamenting that it's no longer like Thailand is now.

[Girls Rok Me]

Handyman2,

Give me a friggin break, " When I was here in 1972-1975"!!!!! Thats 40 years ago buddy. Hell the price of everything around the world has gone up. Don't blame Korea. Get a job that pays you 2005 wages, they will probally compare to 1972 wages rather equally.

I for one am quite proud of Korea in comming out of the past and becomming a world player both economically and in their social enviroment. Hell they deserve it, they work hard (harder then most Americans for far less money) and they are proud of their heritage. Been though many conflicts in their past, but still hold true to their 3000 year old culture.

Korean girls are the best in the world and shame on you for thinking they should be 3rd world slaves, no wonder they didn't want to come to your hotel ,,or are you sure it wasn't a tent because the cost if a hotel is 10 times the price it was in 72?

[Run Mann]

Story from Stars and Stripes about Off limit Clubs:

UIJONGBU, South Korea — The group that provides off-base entertainment for many U.S. soldiers, the Korean Special Tourist Association, has 49 members in Tongducheon and branches in Toka-Ri, Uijongbu, Seoul, Pusan, Taegu, Song-Tan, Pyongtaek and various other areas near U.S. bases in South Korea.

The South Korean government does not tax alcohol purchased by KSTA members but prohibits them from serving South Korean customers unless they are with a U.S. servicemember.

Tongduchoen KSTA president Park Young-ho, who owns the Mustang Club in Tongduchoen, said he’s been in business outside Camp Casey for 25 years. The biggest change during that time, he said, happened after Sept. 11, 2001, when the U.S. military indicated it would declare off-limits any bar that did not impose strict rules, including checking customers’ ID cards.

Park said the U.S. Army told the bars they could serve only U.S. servicemembers and civilians; they could not serve people from other countries, including “southeast Asian nations,” or risk being declared off-limits. Park said such people were a substantial part of the bars’ business before Sept. 11.

Tongduchoen and the surrounding Gyeonggi Province are home to many foreign factory workers from developing nations; some of those workers are suspected of being in South Korea illegally, officials have said.

Then, last year more than 3,000 soldiers from the 2nd Infantry Division deployed to Iraq, reducing bar owners’ incomes, Park said, adding that the financial squeeze means KSTA bars cannot afford to hire South Korean women to work as hostesses.

There is also a stigma associated with the industry, he said: “South Koreans refer to it as a 3D industry — that means dangerous, dirty” and difficult.

So KSTA bars employ predominantly Filipino women as hostesses. About 350 Filipino women are bar workers in Tongduchoen, Park said. The women can speak English well but more importantly for his business, he said, they are willing to work for half the wages South Korean bar workers demand.

Filipino nightclub workers in Tongduchoen get paid $640 a month plus room and board, the cost of their airline tickets from the Philippines and money to pay a commission to the recruiting agent who signed them up, Park said.

The real cost of employing them is about $1,500 a month, estimated KSTA spokesman Joe Yong Sok, a fluent English speaker who helps the organization in its dealing with the U.S. military.

The rules for placing clubs off-limits grate on club owners. For example, the King Club, near Camp Casey’s front gate, was placed off-limits recently for not checking IDs, he said.

The Army officials “just unilaterally place establishments off-limits without prior notice. They don’t give a detailed description about what they are doing wrong,” he said.

At Songtan near Osan Air Base, he said, a procedure exists for KSTA bars suspected of breaking the rules to explain themselves.

“The bars here never get that chance. We have been trying to open communication channels with the U.S. military with no luck,” he said.

Area I spokesman David McNally said the Armed Forces Disciplinary Control Board decides about placing clubs off-limits. He said each U.S. base in South Korea has such a board, headed by the installation commander.

If mitigating circumstances exist or a problem is fixed, a bar can apply to the board in writing to be put back on-limits, he said. A bar owner unhappy with a board decision can appeal it to the Area I commander, he said.

[Handyman #2]

What is happening in Korea? When I was there from 1972-1975, I could have a girl friend, an unofficial house and her buying the food for $100.00 a month. Although the curfew, did suck, everything was cheap and Osan AB was small and laid back.
When I went back 1983-1988, costs were way up, apartments were in the $350-$550 range (they were better apartment from the one room, outside toilet places of 1972-1975, but not that great). Club girls ran $20.00 to $50.00 for all night. And you could buy them out of the club for under $1,500.00 is you wanted a yobo.
When I went back in 1990-1991, apartment were up to $450-$650 (same ones from 1983-1988), Club girls were running $75.00 + for an all night romp.

I recently went back for a vacation and everything seems changed. Costs were skyhigh, apartments were even higher, and club girls either didn't want to or were afraid to come to my hotel and spend the night. And some of the prices a few of them quoted were a real surprise to me after spending 10 years in Korea before. Luckily I was only staying 2 days, because I was really disappointed in the mongering scene there now.

[Yella Man]

I forgot to mention in my previous post that you get a VIP card that gets punched when you leave the BBS in Shi Chong. With five visits you get the sixth free. Not a bad deal. Keep it real guys!

Travaholic

[Yella Man]

An area on highway 1, a click up the road from Songtan going towards Pyongteak is jumping with BBS's. I stopped at one right off highway 1 past a big crab sign on the right as your going towards Pyongteak from Songtan. Gas Can had an earlier post about it. It was 100,000 Won for a decent massage, wash down on a plastic bed in a secret shower room, CBJ, Missionary and finish with Doggy. She wasn't a bad looker either. There are a few other BBS in the area that I want to try. Namely, one block to the right as your going south on highway 1 is crowded with young Koreans, Restraunts, Clubs and BBS's. It's worth a look. Anyway fella mongers, keep it real and keep posting!

Travaholic