General Info

[Romeo0310]

I have a simple but taboo question.

How do you break the ice with Taiwanese women? Everywhere I go, they don't talk to strangers. If you don't know them, you don't exist to them. They never make eye contact with you, unless they are wondering "What the F is he looking at?" You can wave, smile, say "hey babe" or "hi" or "excuse me" to them, and they will pass by you like you don't exist. You can be in a crowded public place, like a night market or hip trendy district in Taipei, with THOUSANDS of girls, yet ALL of them will ignore you! It's horrible and incredibly futile!

But what can you do?

You can't be open and direct with them like you can in many OTHER cultures (European, Australian, Latin America, Russia, Southeast Asia, etc.). It just doesn't work. Taiwanese culture is highly indirect, not open. People only talk to those they know. Anyone who watches my videos in Russia (to find them, go to YouTube and type "foreign women encounters" in the search box) can see that the girls there are very open, direct, relaxed and natural. It is totally NOT like that in Taiwan at all, at least not for Asian guys (white guys may be an exception sometimes).

So what can you do?

And why is it that NONE of the 20+ blogs and forums about Taiwan NEVER talk about this or address it? Why is my blog the only one?

Why is truth so unpopular? Why is political correctness so popular? Why am I the only honest blogger with guts in this area?

Now, being Taiwanese myself, I know that in conventional Taiwanese culture, guys and girls meet the conservative nerdy way, through connecting activities like school, work, extracurricular activities, and through mutual friends. People don't just talk to strangers in public, unless its for commercial reasons, especially among young adults. Any honest Taiwanese (who is not brainwashed by the politically correct Western media) will admit that this is their culture.

I know this, but I am not conservative and nerdy. I am open, direct, straightforward, upfront and relaxed. But in Taiwan, I'm the only one and definitely stick out like a sore thumb. I do not know how to be indirect and go the conservative route? That's not the way I am, and it's difficult to pretend to be something I'm not.

However, some foreigners in Taiwan say it's a dating paradise where they live like rock stars. Well I'm not white. I'm Asian. So am I screwed?

How do you get introverted, repressed, closed, inhibited, stuck up girls to open up? (pardon my frankness)

Is there a socially acceptable "Chinese way" of approaching or chatting up girls in Taiwan?

Being a Chinese American in Taiwan is a bizarre experience between a rock and a hard place. You are seen and treated like local Taiwanese, but you do not have the mind of one nor do you act like a local Taiwanese. So you cannot conform to their perception of you. You can't be who you are cause they have no category for who you are. To their black and white view, everyone is either a Taiwanese or a foreigner. And you aren't a true foreigner to them if you're not white. So you don't fit into either perception. It's an odd situation.

In fact, how do you meet people at all in Taiwan? No one talks to you if they don't know you. There is no eye contact at all. It's unnatural to meet people. There is a negative repressed energy everywhere. And the worst part is that if you talk about it, it makes you look like a loser! So what the F can you do?!

[E Z Rhino]

Romeo,

A books you might like, The Ugly Chinaman by Bo Wang. Hard to find they tried to censor it but its on p2p. Also The Enigma of Japanese Power: People and Politics in a Stateless Nation by Karel Van Wolferen talks about how screwed up Japan is and why.

Also a website, chinasmack, translates all type of ill stuff that goes on in mainland China into English.

There are plenty of guys here on this forum who had different experience than you and picked up girls in Taiwan. Just read through the forum postings if you can take it. I will allow that this is not exactly the best place in Asia for players, for hobbyists, or for missionaries. But it's not as impossible as you make it out to be. Though your mindset is sure making your life harder.

Why don't you try Shanghai, those Chinese girls will talk to you and more. They have other problems and you can write about them, but at least you'll get your wick wet.

You could read through the PUA books but I suggest you discard about 80% of it which is not accurate or not for you.

-EZ

[Lustforthrust]

you think too much!

Seems to me you have a chip on your shoulder and take rejection seriously.

My game is tight and I am constantly hit on by chics, even veiled chics! But I get rejected, it's all part of the game.
Sometimes, it starts out well and then peters out. Sometimes, it starts off shaky and then gets better. I am at that stage that when I ask the chic's name and she doesn't ask for mine, I bail. If looks Filipina or Thai or Indo, I ignore them. But that's me. If she's fat or slow or dresses to kill, I am blind.
If she leans back or her shoulders turn away from me or she crosses her arms or looks away when I am speaking to her, I dump her astonished ass, mid conversation. I reject more than I am rejected. But I didn't start off like that.

When I lived in Taipei, I made out with a chic I met at a coin-laundry, a block off of Lin Shun Bei Lu. Another one had a boyfriend - we met in the swimming pool, 500 yards north of Lin Shun.
There are very good looking chics working in the bars on that dark street (well, used to be kinda unlit back in 2003). They are always up for fun.

You are right about Taiwanese chicas in that they are like country-bumpkins in many ways, despite the lady-like appearances they put on. Remember these folks are the 1911 Chinese, not Mao's new Chinese.

My suggestion to you is to quit being so uptight about being ABC or an expat or whatever the fcuk you think you are. Just be a normal guy and hit on women everywhwere. Good luck!

[Romeo0310]

I think you should read more of the many existing posts. There are some guys here who are very positive and getting plenty of trim.

I don't know if you wrote any or all of the stuff in those articles. My advice to those writers is the Taiwanese saying "You think too much." Or, no offense, if things are so terrible here, and you have such a negative mindset about it, maybe try one of the other 250 countries on the planet.

Last thought: "Wisdom begins when you stop blaming other people for your problems."

Rhino,

Being positive has nothing to do with this. You can't change a whole culture or cultural mentality by being positive. It helps with some things, but not everything.

The fact is, it is NOT in Taiwan culture for women to talk to strangers. This is common knowledge in Taiwan. Honest Taiwanese do not deny it either, even though it's taboo to state it that way. But it's true. Confront Taiwanese that you know. They will admit it. Ask all couples in Taiwan how they met. They will tell you they met through conservative channels. Through school, work or their friends. Not from random approaches or chat ups in public.

Approaching girls does work in Europe, Russia and Latin America, which are open passionate cultures. But not in Taiwan, Japan or Hong Kong. If you are a stud or look like a model, you might be able to do it sometimes, but not for an average guy. NO WAY!

The fact is that Taiwanese girls are scared of strangers, esp male strangers. They are like deer. They spook easily. Being positive doesn't change that.

Listen to what this Taiwanese girl I wrote on Couchsurfing.com said about it when I brought it up. She was offended but admitted that I'm right:

"Hi, winston,

What a long letter! Haha

Actually, I admit I feel a little offended when I read your mail first time. (sorry)

But then, I thought you are right.

If we compare taiwan with other countries, I know, our people are colder and more shy. It is truth. I think it is because of our culture and traditon. We are not so welcome to strangers, just most people want to protect themselves first.

I totally agree you that people affect each other. So when your surrounding is a close space(people just chat or talk with their friends), you will be a member of them, no doubt.

But I still notice sth different between our sentences,

I think why you feel so disappointed about taiwanese, maybe one reason is just because of you are a male. People are usually more freindly to female than to male.

Another reason is maybe you go to wrong place, for example, if on the road, maybe most people don't want to talk to you because they are busy or they are teached don't talk to strangers. But if you go to social places, like pubs, concerts, night markets, restaueants, shopping streets, etc. You might find sth a little different.

And I said that people in chiayi are kind and friendly,

I mean people who live in southern part of taiwan are more friendly than northern part of taiwan. (every taiwanese knows this.)

Ofcourse we can't compare with USA, europe and other western countries I know. But heyhey I am very sure that we are better than China!

So how is your trip in taiwan? Maybe you can try other couchsurfers!

Enjoy!

Amber"

Even an ABC here in Taiwan that wrote me from Craigslist confessed to this reality, which can be empirically demonstrated:

[I]Hi again guy,

Well you can check out Forumosa.com. They have dating/relationship link that people usually post on to chat on stuff like this and the problems that your presenting seem to be pretty common among those guys as well so maybe read up on some extra advice/experiences there.

As far as my opinion/advice goes for your questioins:

1. You can't really chat up girls in Taiwan. You need some type of common activity together like work, school or yes.common friends. Maybe try doing some extra curricular activities like painting, drawing or teaching english to find a connection that way. (Yep, lame)

2. Umm. I'm not too sure about my own tolerance because I'm pretty easy going and also I'm here for specific purposes so I usually concentrate on those things and hope meeting new folks will come along the way.

3. Like mentioned earlier, they do blog about this issue pretty often at Forumosa.com so check it out. They might give you better insight/techniques as opposed to my lame stuff.

Anyhow, nice talkin' with ya and good luck, bud!

-George]/I]

[E Z Rhino]

Hi all,

What do you all think of these taboo observations about Taiwan? How much truth is in them?

http://intellectualexpat.********.co...se-people.html

Also, me and an expat in Taipei are having a debate about approaching Taiwanese girls in this thread. Which one of us is right?

http://www.*************.com/phpBB2/...pic.php?t=7583

What do you think? Any comments or experiences?

I think you should read more of the many existing posts. There are some guys here who are very positive and getting plenty of trim.

I don't know if you wrote any or all of the stuff in those articles. My advice to those writers is the Taiwanese saying "You think too much." Or, no offense, if things are so terrible here, and you have such a negative mindset about it, maybe try one of the other 250 countries on the planet.

Last thought: "Wisdom begins when you stop blaming other people for your problems."

[Romeo0310]

Have any of you approached any hot looking Betel nut girls? If so, what was the result? How do you start a conversation with them? Some of them look like models!

[Romeo0310]

Any of you guys out there got any info on Chiayi or Tai Pau.

Christ, it aint easy being white in this town.

Info would be greatly appreciated.

TY

TS

I'm an ABC in Chiayi visiting my family, and it's depressing. Every time we go out, no one talks to me. It's totally ant****ial. I can't even be my extroverted outgoing self without feeling like a creep or freak. ICK! It's like a sci fi horror movie where everyone's turned into a zombie but me.

And I am not bad looking either.

Does anyone know where to get any action in Chiayi or at least meet any girls who will acknowledge my existence? The ant****iality and introversion here is sickening.

Any suggestions?

[Romeo0310]

Need help! 3 serious questions about Taiwan

1. How do you meet or approach girls in Taiwan outside of "conservative introductions through friends"? I mean, the way I meet and chat up girls in Europe, Russia, The Philippines and even America definitely does NOT work in Taiwan. Saying "Hi how are you" or "Excuse me miss" or flirting or complimenting them does NOT elicit an open sociable response from them. They either react by ignoring you or looking annoyed, and you get the vibe that it is inappropriate.

Even the act of approaching them itself feels uncomfortable, creepy, inappropriate and out of bounds. I KNOW it is not my imagination or due to any lack of bravery on my part either. It's like the vibe of the culture is constantly telling me "Mind your own business. Do not talk to girls that you see. Keep your distance and leave them alone. Communication is for business-related purposes only. We exist to work, not socialize."

So what can you do? How do you get an introverted, repressed, closed, and stuck up girl to open up? (pardon my frankness)

Is there a socially acceptable Chinese way of approaching or chatting up girls in Taiwan?

2. How do you even tolerate living in Taiwan for long? Every time I go out I feel so depressed and gloomy. It's awful. I am very sensitive and feel vibes and energy around me very acutely. Everywhere I go in Taiwan, I see these highly REPRESSED cold stuck up closed inhibited faces everywhere. Their body language is of total introversion and inhibition, especially the young females. It makes them almost INHUMAN, like robots or zombies who have been "altered" like in some scary sci fi horror movie! That gets me down, just like the ant****ial, anti-stranger, cliquish mentality of the US does. So how the hell do you tolerate that here? I could not live here for very long, despite the good food and modern conveniences.

3. Why do none of the expat blogs about Taiwan mention the above? Is it cause it's taboo to say these things even though they're true? Or is it because Taiwan tends to attracted reserved introverted expats as well, so they don't notice anything abnormal? Or are they too polite to be honest, so they only say nice positive things to avoid offending anyone?

I can't imagine any average Joe in the US coming to Taiwan and fitting in. Taiwan seems to be a workaholic culture, not a fun, relaxed, passionate culture. But of course, it's taboo to mention that, because you aren't supposed to see things the way they are.

Can you give me serious answers to these questions, with no bull or politically correct claptrap?

Thank you.

Update: I was just at Pizza Hut today. And damn! This SUPER HOT girl walked in with sexy smooth legs and face. I said hi to her but she ignored me. I wanted to say it louder or approach her, but it felt so illegal and wrong! I hate that! It was EXCRUCIATING just sitting there and watching her, not being able to do anything about it! I felt so handicapped and incapacitated. I hate that. Every time I go out in Taiwan this happens! I can't stand it! What can I do? Why can't Taiwan be more socially open like most other countries? How do other expats here tolerate this? It's EXCRUCIATING and painful to deal with this everyday here! It's so FRUSTRATING beyond words! What can I do?

What I hate the most is that it is taboo to point out the truth about this, just like in the US, where no matter how unfairly men are treated by women, no matter how many double standards there are against them, they cannot complain about it or tell the truth about it, else they will be condemned as losers, sexists or mysnogymists. That sucks. Essentially you aren't allowed to say the truth, but are expected to follow the hive mentality and mind control that the culture and media programs into you, no matter what! It's like "follow your programming, do not speak the truth".

[Romeo0310]

In Taiwan, I am basically bored to death, suffocated and depressed. The culture and environment there makes me feel repressed, as if it wants to suppress who I am. Basically, I don't get any social, cultural or intellectual stimulation there. Let me explain simply.

No social stimulation

I don't get any social stimulation in Taiwan because people there do not talk to strangers, and are cold, repressed, inhibited, stuck up and closed. Their body movements are stiff, and they ignore strangers unless it's for business. It's like they are almost inhuman.

This is especially true with young people, who in family gatherings (like my own) sit there like statues with no expression, not talking or having any opinion on anything, while their parents chat away with each other about trivial things.

Whenever I go out, I don't meet anyone, even in a crowded city. People are standoffish, closed, introverted, shy, and prefer to ignore you completely if they don't know you. Taiwan is like a Twilight Zone in that I often feel like I'm the only normal human there, while everyone else has been artificially altered to become zombies, like in a bad sci fi movie.

Basically, if they don't know you, you don't exist to them.

Worst of all, when you see a beautiful girl, you can't say hi to her or "excuse me" or anything that will get her to stop and talk to you (like you can in most of the rest of the world). She will usually ignore you and walk through you like you don't exist. Terrible.

It's one of the worst places to be if you're an extrovert, like me. How can I not suffocate in Taiwan? I'm outgoing and like fun, excitement and meeting people. But Taiwan is one of the worst cultures for that. Everyone only works and talks to people in their cliques. Nothing else. There is no social energy at all. None. I am VERY sensitive to vibes and energy, so I know what I'm talking about. Plus I am known to possess deep insight about people.

Sometimes in Taiwan, I go so crazy of boredom and lack of social stimulation that I want to yell out into a crowd, "Taiwan is so ant****ial!" just to get attention and feel like I exist. That's how terrible it gets. Taiwan simply brings out the worst in me. It tries to put me into a mechanical box that is lifeless, for it falsely assumes that I am shy, introverted, ant****ial, and workaholic, like its own people are, since I am ethnically Taiwanese (though not in mind and soul).

If anyone claims that I am wrong, let them prove it and demonstrate that what I say above does not apply to the vast majority of Taiwanese (one or two exceptions does NOT count, if 99 percent of the population fit what I describe above!). If they can, I'll give them $500. Otherwise, they are all talk and BS. The fact that no one can prove me wrong, even for $500, says a lot about the truth of these observations.

No cultural stimulation

As for culture, I do not find much culture in Taiwan, other than the variety of Chinese food there.

Basically, the culture is one of a staunch workaholic attitude. Most people's only interest is in food and making money. There is no love of knowledge, wisdom, spirituality, adventure, or intellectualism.

The buildings have no culture in them at all. They are basically concrete slabs stacked together with commercial signs in Chinese at the bottom. There is no beauty in them at all. Every street pretty much looks the same. I would not call that culture.

Sure there are a few temples and shrines here and there, but that's it. There is nothing in Taiwan that you can't find anywhere else, either natural or artificial.

The only thing that Taiwan has a big variety of is food. There are so many variations of food in Taiwan that even locals have not tried everything there is to try there. New variations of cuisine and snacks pop up all the time. But this is because Taiwanese view food as their primary interest in life, besides making money that is.

And of course, if you want to count Chinese language as "culture" be my guest. But my standards are far higher than yours.

No intellectual stimulation

You will not get much intellectual stimulation in Taiwan, not from their TV programs and not from most people, who are not well read or learned in a variety of topics.

Most Taiwanese people are simple and understand only simple practical things. They do not think about abstract topics or converse about intellingent deep meaningful things. As I mentioned, there is no love of knowledge, wisdom, spirituality, adventure, or intellectualism.

If you could listen in on their conversations in Chinese or Taiwanese, and understand them, you'd see that they are basically talking about boring trivial shit. The conversations are about practical things and shallow in nature. Not deep, sophisticated, or intelligent.

Occasionally, the elderly and middle aged in Taiwan may give you intelligent meaningful conversation. But not the young crowd. No way. They are as unopinionated and expressionless as you can get. I don't mean to be mean, but that's what I always see in them.

As for me, the only intellectual stimulation I get in Taiwan is from my work and interactions on the internet, or from foreign expats there. But from the locals (especially young locals) forget it.

Now I would like to add "no sexual stimulation" to this list, but I shouldn't because it would make me look like a horny bastard or pervert. So I'll leave that out of this for now.

Conclusion:

Other than a variety of good Chinese food, hot looking Chinese barbie dolls that are "look (briefly) but don't touch", and jobs for English teachers, Taiwan really has nothing to offer, and nothing you can't get anywhere else.

What's odd about all this is that no one else on the internet admits to it. They all claim Taiwan is wonderful, friendly and interesting. Some say the girls are loose and easy too! On the big Forumosa Forum, comprised of expats in Taiwan, some do admit to Taiwanese girls being ant****ial to strangers, but only occasionally. The rest deny it or are afraid to talk about it and get defensive if you do. Very bizarre. How can something as obvious as the blue sky or 2+2=4 be denied?

Now, I did go to an expat party in Taiwan once, full of English teachers. Most of them described Taiwan as "weird and stuck up" and wished they were somewhere else. So I have heard negative comments about Taiwan in real life from foreigners. Yet for some reason you won't find them online much. I'm surprised about that and can't fully explain it.

Put yourself in my shoes though. If you saw that the sky was blue, yet no one wanted to admit it or they denied it, what would you do? Speak the truth, or lie to avoid looking like a freak to others?

[Romeo0310]

Came across this link recently.

http://www.8big.org.tw/index1_8.htm

Finding service providers in Taiwan on the Web seems to be much more difficult than in Japan - I think I need to study more Mandarin.

You can now translate sites from Chinese to English for free with Google Translator:

http://translate.google.com

Just enter in the URL.

[Roni44]

Came across this link recently.

http://www.8big.org.tw/index1_8.htm

Finding service providers in Taiwan on the Web seems to be much more difficult than in Japan - I think I need to study more Mandarin.

Actually, there are many forums that talk but P4P, however you need to learn the local slang for P4P. Instead of saying WG or SP, they use eatting fish 吃魚or drinking tea喝茶. And to obtain any P4P info's from the sites, you are required to spend some insane amount of time and energy. Go google Taiwan, and search in Taiwan page only, type in 吃魚or 喝茶to the sites. And you don't read Chinese, you are out of luck.

[Nakameguro97]

Came across this link recently.

http://www.8big.org.tw/index1_8.htm

Finding service providers in Taiwan on the Web seems to be much more difficult than in Japan - I think I need to study more Mandarin.

[Nakameguro97]

Thanks for the tip, Ragnorak42 - I will watch out for 我愛黑澀幫幫堂

Apparently, there is a Korean 9-member girl band called 少女時代 that predates Taiwan's 美少女時代 by several years - I doubt the similarity in name is a coincidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0h30AHIsfuo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7mPqycQ0tQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQ8pjwFHkuA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SwiSpudKWI

I've heard better Korean music, but I have to admit, I'm not listening much with these videos...

[Ragnarok42]

Most of the production quality on Taiwanese TV seems subpar (with the exception of MTV-like stations), but I recently came across this late night show that's comparable to what I've seen in Tokyo:

美少女時代

This program has strong Japanese influences - I don't even know how to read the show in Mandarin, but the Japanese reading is easy - びしょうじょじだい Bishojyo Jidai. Apparently, they also sing, making them like a Taiwanese version of AKB48 or Morning Musume.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9zOWnn5-3Y

You can check it out on Channel 78 (Channel V) 1-2AM if you have Chunghwa Cable, else you can watch recordings on youtube.

I don't understand much of what they are saying, but anything with loads of teenage cuties in uniforms 制服 talking about increasing breast sizes or dating, can't be too bad.

If you know of other programs like this on tv, please post. Thx!

I have been watching the show as well but somehow most of the girls come off as silly or having too much makeup. They used to the a show on the same channel 我愛黑澀會 that became immensly popular and spawned many singers, actresses and even one beauty pagent winner. The show is still on now called 我愛黑澀幫幫堂 with boys too. Not as fun or good as before but the talent level is much better than the other show. Look for them at channel 78 at about 10pm.

[Nakameguro97]

Most of the production quality on Taiwanese TV seems subpar (with the exception of MTV-like stations), but I recently came across this late night show that's comparable to what I've seen in Tokyo:

美少女時代

This program has strong Japanese influences - I don't even know how to read the show in Mandarin, but the Japanese reading is easy - びしょうじょじだい Bishojyo Jidai. Apparently, they also sing, making them like a Taiwanese version of AKB48 or Morning Musume.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9zOWnn5-3Y

You can check it out on Channel 78 (Channel V) 1-2AM if you have Chunghwa Cable, else you can watch recordings on youtube.

I don't understand much of what they are saying, but anything with loads of teenage cuties in uniforms 制服 talking about increasing breast sizes or dating, can't be too bad.

If you know of other programs like this on tv, please post. Thx!