Safe Sex and Sex Related Discussions in Thailand

[Zam007]

OK, everybody can relax.

Not only is the website for Butterfly Massage on Soi 24 just a short walk from Sukhumvit Road and turn left at The Bibimbab restaurant fully functioning:

Butterfly Massage

https://butterflymassage.x.2nt.com/e...dy_page-e.html

But my Boots On The Ground eye witness to the shop tonight at 8 pm confirmed it is Open and Thriving. There are tons of happy, smiling young ladies sitting outside just waiting for business.

Note to any other Massage Shop and / or similar P4P venue in Thailand; I have never seen as much worry and concern that a Sex Shop might be "closed" as I have seen on this site for Butterfly Massage. Its happy customers and potential customers really want that business to stay open, do very well and thrive.

I'm guessing that is because the enlightened, wise and up-to-date owners and management of Butterfly Massage Soi 24 have decided the most profitable, free and fair option is to allow their ladies an easy opportunity to increase their customer traffic and income by simply choosing to check and include BBFS+CIP as "No Condom OK" on their service list profile or not, it being entirely up to each lady.

Moreover, they have not required that any customer must go Bareback / BBFS+CIP with any girl there or anywhere else for any act of sex a girl there or elsewhere agrees to engage in with you. Really. Wear a condom even for DFK and a Handjob every time with every lady at that shop and elsewhere if it makes you happy.

Well, I could be wrong about the news that the MP is still in action, but I in the long run I will be right about the MP getting shut down for such activities because a few MPs in the past have indeed got shut down for doing this so openly. I am not going to name them.

Safe Sex Everyone.

We need to enjoy as long as we can.

[HorseTrader]

Estimated HIV risk per exposure.
May, 2020

https://www.aidsmap.com/about-hiv/es...-risk-exposure

Great link, thanks for digging it out. Those numbers are consistent with my memory of a report published a few years ago by the San Francisco Clinic.

[Werqweq]

Werqweq: "That is cited: "Receptive fellatio, no condom, viral load not known Estimates range from 0. 00% to 0. 04% (1 in 2500)". "

Sorry to post a response this way. But for some reason I could not quote your post as usual no matter how many brackets and parentheses I removed from it. A weird glitch perhaps.

Anyway, I beg to differ; imo, "Receptive Fellatio" is referring to the person "receiving" the semen, not the person delivering it.

If it is the other way around then there is no citation at all for the risk associated with receiving the cum in one's mouth but only for the one shooting it into his partner's mouth.

Which makes no sense at all.

I know we colloquially refer to it as "getting (receiving) a blowjob. " But for the purposes of a study like this they don't mean it that way.

IMHO.

I have re-read it now, and you are correct. Sorry for the mistake.

[EihTooms]

Werqweq: "That is cited: "Receptive fellatio, no condom, viral load not known Estimates range from 0. 00% to 0. 04% (1 in 2500)". "

Sorry to post a response this way. But for some reason I could not quote your post as usual no matter how many brackets and parentheses I removed from it. A weird glitch perhaps.

Anyway, I beg to differ; imo, "Receptive Fellatio" is referring to the person "receiving" the semen, not the person delivering it.

If it is the other way around then there is no citation at all for the risk associated with receiving the cum in one's mouth but only for the one shooting it into his partner's mouth.

Which makes no sense at all.

I know we colloquially refer to it as "getting (receiving) a blowjob. " But for the purposes of a study like this they don't mean it that way.

IMHO.

[Werqweq]

Estimated HIV risk per exposure.
May, 2020

https://www.aidsmap.com/about-hiv/estimated-hiv-risk-exposure

Now, some common sex acts are not cited and given any estimates at all, such as receiving fellatio, as in you are the one getting a blowjob not the one on the "receptive" end and either giving or receiving cunnilingus. I assume that is because the risks of being infected by HIV from such acts are so low as to be statistically insignificant and can not be calculated. But I did not see it stated that way in the text so it is only an assumption on my part. Maybe I missed it.

That is cited: "Receptive fellatio, no condom, viral load not known Estimates range from 0. 00% to 0. 04% (1 in 2500)".


Following the link from there leads to an article stating:
"A 10-year Spanish study conducted from 1990 to 2000 among serodiscordant heterosexual couples [19] observed no transmissions due to receptive oral sex among 8965 acts. We used data from this study to estimate 95% CIs for receptive and insertive oral sex transmission risk (95% CI 0–4). A study among lesbians also observed no transmissions due to oral sex [66]. A meta-analysis to establish the per-act transmission risk for oral sex could not be conducted because data were from three disparate sources [67]. Furthermore, estimating per-act transmission risk for low-risk acts, such as oral sex, is often confounded by the complex patterns of sexual exposure where higher-risk exposures occur during the same sexual encounter. Given these general limitations and the individual limitations of the previous estimates, we believe that although HIV transmission via oral sex is biologically plausible, we are unable to provide a precise numeric estimate."

But still as you say, the risk for getting HIV from a blowjob appears to be insignificant.

[EihTooms]

I was under the impression that Doxy was better than 50% effective as PrEP, but well below 90%. With daily BBFS, I cannot use 1000 MG azithromycin or daily Cefixeme as PEP, too much antibiotic.

Schedule permitting, I'll get a last day test at the Thai Red Cross. If schedule doesn't permit, I'll be spending about $250 for an extensive at home STD test kit.

I always bring Azithromycin home, this trip I'll also bring home some cefixeme, which I have forgotten about. Good suggestion.

Im actually not too worried about HIV. Data Ive seen regarding female to male transmission is very low. If someone has revised data, I would appreciate seeing a link. The other thing is that HIV treatments are now highly effective, it is no longer a death sentence. My guess is that many Thai girls have HIV but it is controlled to a level where it cannot be transmitted via sex. I am aware that government medical system provides nearly free quarterly evaluations and medication for HIV patients. Again, if somebody has some scientific data to support or refute my hypotheses, I would appreciate them posting a link.

This is not specific to Thai women or their rate of infection but many might find it useful nonetheless. And I suppose it could likely pertain to all women and all men everywhere.

IMPORTANT NOTES: an "exposure" in these estimates is defined as you're engaging in that particular sex act with an HIV-Positive partner. It is not defined as per sex act with any partner anywhere at any time. That is clearly stated in the text of the report.

My reading of it also excludes an "HIV-Positive" partner who is taking enough effective drug treatment medication to lower their viral load to 0 (zero) or an undetectable viral load, as a "per exposure" partner candidate. Meaning in terms of risk they are essentially HIV free. Perhaps others will read it differently.

Also, these estimate figures might or might not be factoring in you having a co-factor such as a large open wound on or around your penis, not being circumcised and / or having a large open wound in or around your mouth or anus, depending on the sex act in which you are engaging. And the report does not cite separate rates of risk with or without such co-factors.

Therefore, I believe it is safe to say the estimate figures cited in this report are smaller (less likely to result in transmission) if you do not have such a co-factor, do not have a large open wound on or around the area of the sex act and have been circumcised:

Estimated HIV risk per exposure.
May, 2020

https://www.aidsmap.com/about-hiv/es...-risk-exposure

Now, some common sex acts are not cited and given any estimates at all, such as receiving fellatio, as in you are the one getting a blowjob not the one on the "receptive" end and either giving or receiving cunnilingus. I assume that is because the risks of being infected by HIV from such acts are so low as to be statistically insignificant and can not be calculated. But I did not see it stated that way in the text so it is only an assumption on my part. Maybe I missed it.

[Newton York]

OK, everybody can relax.

Not only is the website for Butterfly Massage on Soi 24 just a short walk from Sukhumvit Road and turn left at The Bibimbab restaurant fully functioning:

Butterfly Massage

https://butterflymassage.x.2nt.com/e...dy_page-e.html

But my Boots On The Ground eye witness to the shop tonight at 8 pm confirmed it is Open and Thriving. There are tons of happy, smiling young ladies sitting outside just waiting for business.

Note to any other Massage Shop and / or similar P4P venue in Thailand; I have never seen as much worry and concern that a Sex Shop might be "closed" as I have seen on this site for Butterfly Massage. Its happy customers and potential customers really want that business to stay open, do very well and thrive.

I'm guessing that is because the enlightened, wise and up-to-date owners and management of Butterfly Massage Soi 24 have decided the most profitable, free and fair option is to allow their ladies an easy opportunity to increase their customer traffic and income by simply choosing to check and include BBFS+CIP as "No Condom OK" on their service list profile or not, it being entirely up to each lady.

Moreover, they have not required that any customer must go Bareback / BBFS+CIP with any girl there or anywhere else for any act of sex a girl there or elsewhere agrees to engage in with you. Really. Wear a condom even for DFK and a Handjob every time with every lady at that shop and elsewhere if it makes you happy.

Many thanks Eihtooms. It's a relief to know they're still around, though I'll need them to be around a lot longer, I don't know when I'll be able to go back to Thailand, but just knowing they're still there is keeping my spirits up. I'm on the fence about going bareback, but just knowing the option is available is the point for me. I'm always on the camp of one should be able to get to choose. More Austria, less Germany when it comes to the BBFS prostitution policies, that's my view.

I suspect it's also up to the chick if she wants to go bareback with the guy based on his looks. If he's an old and ugly as sin guy like me, the odds are higher she won't do it. Sucks for me. Man, I tell ya fellas, when I fell off the ugly tree, I hit every branch on the way down.

This is good fellas. This is a good thing. If the other joints see how well Butterflys is doing by giving this extra option, they just might do it too. And then when I'm finally, freaking back in Bangkok, the adrenaline rush I'll get from knowing that most of the chicks I'll bang there might go bareback, holy moses. That alone is worth the price of admission.

I tell ya fellas, I can't remember what place it was now, somewhere in Thonglor near Nikko Hotel I think, on my last trip, when I was banging the chick, her legs were wide open, my cock was raging, I had just removed the condom to have her blow me, but while I was on top, I very nearly put it in her pussy, I couldn't really control myself, but she softly said no, and I was able to think straight again. Sometimes you just want to fuck raw. Years ago on my Bangkok trip, I had an escort in my hotel room, and she offered to go bareback, but for some weird reason, I couldn't let myself do it. It's like I feel it's got to happen in the moment. When I can't control myself. If I'm given a choice or even a moment to think about it, I would just say no.

Years ago when I fucked the Korean chicks on a regular basis here in the city, this shitty, shitty american city, I went raw with one cause she just let it happen. It was so sexy I still have memories of it to this day. Cause even then I was having a tough time staying hard, so she took the condom off and she said to just put the tip in, and sure enough I did, and just kept pumping. Pretty soon she had her legs wrapped around me and I just kept going. We switched to cowgirl and I came hard with her on top. It was the most glorious creampie I ever gave a chick. Every time I saw her again after that first session, it was just raw animal sex. Grabbing at each other the second I was in the room, before even the whole shower thing, no condom required. Of all the working girls I've fucked, she's the one I miss the most. I wonder if she's doing ok, I wonder if I have a kid I don't know about somewhere. Ha! That'd be hilarious.

[Newton York]

I was under the impression that Doxy was better than 50% effective as PrEP, but well below 90%. With daily BBFS, I cannot use 1000 MG azithromycin or daily Cefixeme as PEP, too much antibiotic.
My guess is that many Thai girls have HIV but it is controlled to a level where it cannot be transmitted via sex. I am aware that government medical system provides nearly free quarterly evaluations and medication for HIV patients. Again, if somebody has some scientific data to support or refute my hypotheses, I would appreciate them posting a link.

Wait? What? Many Thai girls have HIV? That's freaking scary dude. At this point I'm willing to sell my soul to go back to Thailand to fuck as many Thai chicks as I can. I even want to try Butterflys where BBFS is on offer just to tempt myself to go bareback again, since I haven't in ages. Don't make me second guess myself dude. Thailand is all I have to live for now. I want to die, I really do, but not before one last trip to Thailand at least. And I definitely don't want to go slow cause of hiv. I want to go fast like getting hit by a bus, or David Carradine style, with a big smile on my face!

[Newton York]

I have barebacked a lot of times, but most of them were not hookers.

I don't enjoy covered sex as much as bareback, but I want to enjoy sex as long and healthy as I can.

It's only a matter of 1 or 2 more decades when I will also find myself in your situation, until then, I will try and play but also be as safe as I can.

I am glad you enjoyed whenever you could back in the day, but things have changed a lot these days.

Things have definitely changed, and changed a lot. When I started in the hobby, the scariest STD, which I'll just say here has a three letter acronym, wasn't even a thing yet, goes to show how old I am. Those were the days though. But it's also about fellow hobbyists. Let's keep each other safe. The chicks are essentially products, goods for rent. And we want to take care of them for the next customer. I'd like to think of it as just courtesy. When I bang a chick, or go down on her, I'd like to think and definitely hope that she's clean.

[HorseTrader]

Doxy is a very poor protection with a 50% risk reduction, I wouldn't rely too much on it. Go PEP with Azythromycin 1000 MG with Cefixime 800 MG. And don't forget Teno-them PREP for HIV. Even if you are a Geezer protection yourself is protecting others.

I was under the impression that Doxy was better than 50% effective as PrEP, but well below 90%. With daily BBFS, I cannot use 1000 MG azithromycin or daily Cefixeme as PEP, too much antibiotic.

Schedule permitting, I'll get a last day test at the Thai Red Cross. If schedule doesn't permit, I'll be spending about $250 for an extensive at home STD test kit.

I always bring Azithromycin home, this trip I'll also bring home some cefixeme, which I have forgotten about. Good suggestion.

I’m actually not too worried about HIV. Data I’ve seen regarding female to male transmission is very low. If someone has revised data, I would appreciate seeing a link. The other thing is that HIV treatments are now highly effective, it is no longer a death sentence. My guess is that many Thai girls have HIV but it is controlled to a level where it cannot be transmitted via sex. I am aware that government medical system provides nearly free quarterly evaluations and medication for HIV patients. Again, if somebody has some scientific data to support or refute my hypotheses, I would appreciate them posting a link.

[MomoFarang]

I've been monitoring that website for a few months. At first there were only 1 or 2 girls who allowed no condom. At my last count, it was 11 of 42 girls allowing no condom. I'm old as dirt and BBFS has become the only sex where I can reliably finish. If they want my money, that's what I need.

On a side note, I've had a vasectomy so I'm not worried about pregnancy. For bacterial STDs, I use doxycycline as PrEP. I do worry about viral STDs but have been unaffected so far, perhaps post-sex washing and pissing has saved me so far. I get tested both before and after my semi-annual sexcations.

11 out of 42, so roughly 1 out of 4. Thats more or less what I get around Sukhumvit, all type of venues included. At some bars in Nana Plaza it is more like one in two. But a lot depends on the choice of venue and girl. TF has also a high proportion, possibly higher than one in two.

Doxy is a very poor protection with a 50% risk reduction, I wouldn't rely too much on it. Go PEP with Azythromycin 1000 MG with Cefixime 800 MG. And don't forget Teno-them PREP for HIV. Even if you are a Geezer protection yourself is protecting others.

[HorseTrader]

OK, everybody can relax.

Not only is the website for Butterfly Massage on Soi 24 just a short walk from Sukhumvit Road and turn left at The Bibimbab restaurant fully functioning:

Butterfly Massage

https://butterflymassage.x.2nt.com/e...dy_page-e.html

But my Boots On The Ground eye witness to the shop tonight at 8 pm confirmed it is Open and Thriving. There are tons of happy, smiling young ladies sitting outside just waiting for business.

I've been monitoring that website for a few months. At first there were only 1 or 2 girls who allowed no condom. At my last count, it was 11 of 42 girls allowing no condom. I'm old as dirt and BBFS has become the only sex where I can reliably finish. If they want my money, that's what I need.

On a side note, I've had a vasectomy so I'm not worried about pregnancy. For bacterial STDs, I use doxycycline as PrEP. I do worry about viral STDs but have been unaffected so far, perhaps post-sex washing and pissing has saved me so far. I get tested both before and after my semi-annual sexcations.

[EihTooms]

Butterfly Massage has been shut.

I saw this coming. For sure other MPs would have complained because of the pressure it put on them to offer the same services so openly and discussed in multiple forums.

I am surprised it lasted this long.

OK, everybody can relax.

Not only is the website for Butterfly Massage on Soi 24 just a short walk from Sukhumvit Road and turn left at The Bibimbab restaurant fully functioning:

Butterfly Massage

https://butterflymassage.x.2nt.com/e...dy_page-e.html

But my Boots On The Ground eye witness to the shop tonight at 8 pm confirmed it is Open and Thriving. There are tons of happy, smiling young ladies sitting outside just waiting for business.

Note to any other Massage Shop and / or similar P4P venue in Thailand; I have never seen as much worry and concern that a Sex Shop might be "closed" as I have seen on this site for Butterfly Massage. Its happy customers and potential customers really want that business to stay open, do very well and thrive.

I'm guessing that is because the enlightened, wise and up-to-date owners and management of Butterfly Massage Soi 24 have decided the most profitable, free and fair option is to allow their ladies an easy opportunity to increase their customer traffic and income by simply choosing to check and include BBFS+CIP as "No Condom OK" on their service list profile or not, it being entirely up to each lady.

Moreover, they have not required that any customer must go Bareback / BBFS+CIP with any girl there or anywhere else for any act of sex a girl there or elsewhere agrees to engage in with you. Really. Wear a condom even for DFK and a Handjob every time with every lady at that shop and elsewhere if it makes you happy.

[Zam007]

I know if that happened to me, I'd never be able to resist. It never happens to me, cause I'm a shriveled old guy with a barely functioning dick even with penis pills. All that being said, I do wonder about going bareback. I miss it. I'm so old now, what have I got to lose? I say you lucky fucks there in Bangkok now, just go crazy, and do whatever, until something really bad makes it way thru the chicks, then you can feel like you dodged a bullet. At least you're there. I'm stuck here, not knowing if I will ever be able to go to Thailand to even take such an awesome risk. Beelzebub, I'd sell my soul right now.

I have barebacked a lot of times, but most of them were not hookers.

I don't enjoy covered sex as much as bareback, but I want to enjoy sex as long and healthy as I can.

It's only a matter of 1 or 2 more decades when I will also find myself in your situation, until then, I will try and play but also be as safe as I can.

I am glad you enjoyed whenever you could back in the day, but things have changed a lot these days.

[Zam007]

My friend and myself were discussing the dangers of BBFS and that it's just a matter of time this careless habit is going to explode in the MP scene.

One person with some serious STD is going to fuck it up for the rest of us and Thai authorities are going to come hard on them.

Offering BBFS like this is going to encourage others to offer the same services and before you know it Thai authroties are going to issue a blanket ban on all these establishments for a few months.

What my friend assured me that one girl she took who was seen offering no condom services replied to him that it was just for bbj.

I don't know about the other things. If they do offer BBFS so openly, I am not goin to enter that place. These guys are going to cause some serious problems.

That said, many massage girls were sometimes so horny they tried to shove my dick in them with no condoms and it was me who resisted and put the cover back on.

Butterfly Massage has been shut.

I saw this coming. For sure other MPs would have complained because of the pressure it put on them to offer the same services so openly and discussed in multiple forums.

I am surprised it lasted this long.