Hanoi

[Surfer]

but the Southerners are SO much better looking than the Northerners that I now think it better to bring one from the South to Halong Bay (rather than finding one in Hanoi, Haiphong, or Halong City). I read that there are available girls on Cat Ba itself, but convenitional wisdom would say that selection and price will be inferior (like Ko Samui or Phuket vs. OPattaya, Boracay vs. Angeles, Bali vs. Jakarta etc etc). Anybody here have opinions on point to share? Tam Biet.

[Asia Rocks]

Easier to get into the new Hanoi Hilton than out of the old one. Careful of the MB girls. You can hook up with a girl at one of the clubs and take her back to the hotel or have her visit you at the hotel, but easier at 10:00 than 12:00.
Cheers, AR

Guy's, for the record, I love Vietnamese as much as any other national identity. What I need to know is, how the scene is looking around the Hilton these days. Where to go, can they come to the hotel, etc etc. Please give opinions.

By the way, as I noted in really old posts, the Daewoo allowed girls to come with you as long as you paid the 'guest fee' of around $50 for the night. This was on 2002.

[Burty]

Around the Hilton in the evenings plenty of girls driving around who will approach you and offer to go to a close-by Nha Nghi (crappy hostel).

However, I would be more interested in actual Nha Nghi's or hotels where you can just walk in and find girls. Any suggestions?

B

[Brandon88]

Guy's, for the record, I love Vietnamese as much as any other national identity. What I need to know is, how the scene is looking around the Hilton these days. Where to go, can they come to the hotel, etc etc. Please give opinions.

By the way, as I noted in really old posts, the Daewoo allowed girls to come with you as long as you paid the 'guest fee' of around $50 for the night. This was on 2002.

[Haiphong]

I am sorry for getting carried away on such topic. I now rest my case and will never touch this subject again.

OK, now we both are on the same page! I too will not dwell on this issue any longer UNLESS provoked into it by someone who is condescending towards Vietnamese or believes in the superiority of one system over another.

Good luck and God bless,

James

[Silly Puppy]

you keep bringing up the mylai case which is nothing compared to what vietnamese or chinese communists did to their own people during and after the wars. it seems you are obseesed with this particular event. i suggest you to do more research on crimes committed by communists then you may change your opinions. anyway i will discuss with you about the mylai and the tet massacre in hue cases.

the mylai massacer is nothing compared to the tet massacre. they are both terrible and many innocent people died. fortunately (or unfortunately), you and i know exactly what punishment calley received for his crime; they are unjustice from your point of view. however, at least calley (not casey, my fault) was put under a us justice system for his crime. on the other hand all the killers of a few thousand of innocent people in hue were never put on trial. so tell me which jungle is better?

let me share with you some lights on the "people" in my lai village as people like you (not sure where you are from) have been taught and read from documents, literatures, textbooks, cnn, bbc, etc not like us vietnamese actually lived thru the war. my lai is not a normal village, it is located in quang ngai province where at least more than 90% of population are commnunists or vc sympathizers. to win the war americans and south vietnamese had to do more than just bombed the hell out of these towns, attacked during the day then withdrew back to their base at night. dealing with guerrilars was a never-ending game and these americans were not patient enought to do that. so it happened! calley ordered his troop to kill all the villagers including old people and children. this was a terrible crime and should not be tolerated. however, calley got released after 3 1/2 years in house arrest (not prison). he gor released from prison by president nixon who used his presidential pardon right to overrule the sentence and put calley under house arrest. sound unjustic, right? but this is legal in a democrat system as nixon was following the american opinions; see http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/proj...eyresults.html

at least in principle, the us army martial court tried to convict calley, sentenced him the hardest punishment he could get; but failed to keep him in prison because the majority of people disagreed with the verdict. i agree with you that it is still not good but that was the best american justice could do.

now i am back to the tet massacre as it seems you know nothing about this particular case. let's try to be fair when we want to judge any systems.

in 1968 on the lunar new year vietnamese communists were ordered to attack through out the whole country. they did not succeed militarily but they were successful diplomatically and strategically. in hue, the old imperial capital of vietnam, located on the south china sea, the vc (vietnamese communists and guerillars) stayed and dug in for about a month. they were finally rooted out and left many deaths behind; most of them south vietnamese they suspected working with the government. to name a few please read...

http://www.saigon.com/regions/hue/
http://ngothelinh.tripod.com/hue.html
http://www.vietquoc.com/0002vq.htm

"the most surprising losses, however, didn't occur among the fighting soldiers or in the razed buildings. americans and south vietnamese later discovered that, upon entering the city, nva/vc leaders rounded up south vietnamese teachers and government officials and killed them. in what became known as the hue massacre, the nva/vc murdered nearly 3,000 residents of hue and buried them in a mass grave in the jungle outside the city."


well, the commander who was responsible for the massacre was never put under a justice system. we will never know who commanded such horrific and barbaric action because the communist system hid/censored the info, not like western world with news and freedom of speech such crime is difficult to hide. the responsible person for such crime is not an individual but is the whole system for hiding it. so, "what jungle is better?"

btw, i will leave the 911 out of the discussion because it is getting out of hand. this is a forum to find girls for fucking and we are seriously discussing politics which seems to be unappropriate. i am sorry for getting carried away on such topic. i now rest my case and will never touch this subject again.

[Haiphong]

[QUOTE=James Tran]And you know what, what happened to Mylai is not because democracy is not perfect, no democracy system tolerates such massacer, but it happened because of an individual frustration in dealing with the communist guerillas.[QUOTE]James,

I am not here simply to be argumentative and cannot sit here and say that I disagree with everything that you have written BUT I do question the statement quoted above. You claim (more than once) that you reside in the U.S. and use the term "we/us" so, assuming that you are an American, I ask you this: can you PLEASE say that 911 was NOT caused by anything other than AN INDIVIDUAL FRUSTRATION. I bet you cannot! This is because the Western mind has been twisted by the media and, despite having marginal amount of facts, is quick to judge others. There was nothing 'individual' about My Lai (read and understand the chain of command in that incident) and the women and children slaughtered there did not represent "communist guerillas" any more than the victims of the Twin Towers representing imperialist America or zionism. For God's sake, stop using duplicity in your arguments...it is the curse of the West upon the world.

And, just for the record, let me share the Western "justice" in this case:
March 31, '71 - Calley sentenced to life
August 20, '71 - Calley's sentence reduced to 20 years
April 16, '74 - Calley's sentence reduced to 10 years
November 9, '74 - Calley released on bond
September 10, '75 - Calley paroled (serving only 3 1/2 years)

And you mock other's justice?

[Silly Puppy]

What happening in Iraq,like I've said, (Bush) is wrong. But if you want to bring Afghanistan in I'd say Bush is right. If you want to go further with this, I am happy to discuss it with you.

What Bush did in Iraq is anti-democracy thus is wrong and I am here in US free to say that. In VN if you are going to say communist is wrong you know where you are going to; jail or see HCM in hell. Bush and his gang don't represent the whole democracy system. In principle democracy even it is not a perfect tool, it is the best tool. On the other hand communism is a bad tool because in principle it is bad. Think about all the abolishtion things that I only mentioned a few. So the good tool in a bad hand (in this case Bush and his cabinet) will make people suffer; we in the US are suffering somewhat (2000 dead soldiers, some little impact to the economy, some doubts about democracy system, etc); thousands of innocent people died in Iraq, collapsed economy, etc. However, the rest of the world is ok, not too many people suffer because of this stupid mistake from our president. This is thanks to the democracy, an "imperfect system." And you know what, what happened to Mylai is not because democracy is not perfect, no democracy system tolerates such massacer, but it happened because of an individual frustration in dealing with the communist guerillas. I am not here to support Casey and his action but his crime is nothing compare to crimes that VietCong and the communist party in VN did to many innocent people; for example the Tet massacre in Hue in 1968, and many more.

However, a bad tool in a bad hand is really terrible. Think about Mao Tse Dong and his cultural revolution that killed 20 milion innocent people and destryed many historical relics; think about Stalin and the killing of 15000 Polish officers or his kiling of his own people in the millions; think about the massacre that Khmer Rouge committed to their own people; think about what the Vietnamese governement did to the "puppet" South Vietnamese soldiers and their family after 1975; think about how hungry the North Korea was last year or couple years ago and if not without the help of Western world how many people would die? Ha ha... just think about these and tell me what jungle is better?

[Silly Puppy]

"There you go again accusing others as being less than perfect becuase they are a westerners, an assumption. "

Humm this dude is putting words in my mouth. But anyway, regardless you are an Asian, Caucasian, Black, Indian, etc you are NOT perfect. If you want to state the fact then use the above.

Your lack of experience in living with the real communist system convinced you that no system is perfect. Without the Eastern Europe revolution and the collapse of communism in Soviet Union you probably 'd never see China or Vietnam; let alone the real Viet or China. I was lucky to see the real Vietnam. These countries already changed a lot EXTERNALLY, but internally the government is still the same old hard core like 30 years ago.

Living in this relative world, if you are well educated, "3 degrees of blackbelt?" you should have understood we can only live by accepting what is best out there. However, we can't just say because the system is not perfect so let's continue living this way. This is what the communist propaganda's tried to put in your head and you are spreading it out to us. And this is so lame!

By the same token, blaming that everything comes from theories and therefore is bad, not perfect, so doing nothing is the right approach, is also lame. Being educated like you is not worthier than a worker who revolted against the industrial proletariat in The February Revolution in Berlin, Cologne, and Paris. Camouflaging under a Western hat you are trying to defend the current Vietnam regime by accusing the West for not being perfect. God damn it! open your eyes and look carefully at the average people around you in VN and at least if you have some decency, open your heart to feel their pain. I travelled from North to South and have seen many things. I've seen couple Vietnam vets gave 2000 dong to a poor lady harvesting river snails with her handicaped son. I don't expect Westerner to feel pity for my own country. But if they do al least do not try to blindly defend the stupid government. You are too much WM. You are white with 3 degrees in US but you are dumber than a 12th grade student in the South.

Now get back to the subject that you are trying to dodge all day. Tell me what and why you KNOW democracy doesn't have a cleaner track record than communism. Something that can last 2000 years and something is so ill-fated that can only last 1989-1917 = 72 years and you can state such dumb statement One is majority rules for the people and one is minority rules for the party members and their family, and you are saying you are not sure which system is better? Well, if you are not sure then be quiet then nobody will try to correct you.

[White Monkey]

Hey dull tool,

Yes, all forms of government are based on theories. Some more tested than others, but none of them pure or following intensions....because of the corrupt nature of a patriarchal leadership, etc.

Marx advocated the rise of the opressed working class over the proletariat, or ownership class in order to free themsleves from economic "slavery". He also did feel strongly about the legitimacy of Western Religions, namely Catholicism INC.

My education. I have three degrees from the US.

There you go again accusing others as being less than perfect becuase they are a westerners, an assumption. If you are so proud to be Asian, which is cool, why do you use a cheesy Western name like James? You are so confrontational and condescending which indicated that you have issues, have you tried meditation?

Here we go again. This is very naive of you WM. I wonder what level of education you got. It originated in Athens with the Greeces. It is a long and proven progress which has been tested for couple thousand years. And you are right on this: communism (not socialism) is indeed a theory which had never been tested before Karl Marx published his Communist Manifesto in 1848. While democracy is a gradual progress which takes many years to mature, Marx's communism advocated the abolition of property in land, the application of all land rent to public purposes; abolition of all rights of inheritance; abolition of all religions, etc. These daring and never-been-tested-before callings had a deadly consequence and ruined million lives which we all know so well.

"Vietnam has come a long way, and like it or not there are a lot more ways to act free there than in many "Civilized" countries."

This statement which comes from a Westerner is indeed ignorant. "Acting free than many civilized countries" is correct to a minority, the ruling class, and not to the mass.

""Democracy" does not have a cleaner track record than "communism"

Hummm, with your knowledge on these subjects I doubt if you can come up with evidences to support your claims.

[White Monkey]

In most hotels you cannot get gals in after dark...You'll have to ask the policy or look for a posting at the front desk.

I always found it less of a hassle to get my shaggin done in the day time if you want to enjoy your room...otherwise as you said, short time it.




[QUOTE=Danielus20]I am staying at DaeWoo now. For what it's worth, a girl I met the other night would not even try to come there, said she couldn't get in. Did the minihotel bit instead.

[Danielus20]

I am staying at DaeWoo now. For what it's worth, a girl I met the other night would not even try to come there, said she couldn't get in. Did the minihotel bit instead.

[QUOTE=Co Van My]

Please note that the DAEWOO is totally guest unfriendly.

Impossible to bring a guest at the moment.

Pansted, would you describe exactly what you experienced that leads you to say that the Daewoo is not allowing girls in now?

[Haiphong]

[QUOTE=James Tran]...While democracy is a gradual progress which takes many years to mature, Marx's communism advocated the abolition of property in land, the application of all land rent to public purposes; abolition of all rights of inheritance; abolition of all religions, etc. These daring and never-been-tested-before callings had a deadly consequence and ruined million lives which we all know so well.
[QUOTE]Now, let's start with the first part of the quote above: "democracy is a gradual progress which takes many years to mature...." NO ARGUMENT THERE. But, of course, since the 'civilized world' knows better, both Afghanistan and Iraq are ready for this change overnight. Right?

On to the second part: "These daring and never-been-tested-before callings had a deadly consequence and ruined million lives which we all know so well." Excuse me, but are we talking about communism here or imperialism, as practised and perfected by the British, the French and now the American's more recently. Does anyone recall how communism played a part in World War I or II? Were Korean and Vietnamese forces found in California or was it a case of American troops invading those countries? Iraq & Afghanistan do not practise communism., or so I thought! Ah, let's not forget the acts of 'self-defense' either. Napalm, atom, Agent Orange, My Lai, etc. etc. Talk about "deadly consequence and ruined million lives". You have your facts TOTALLY wrong. I strongly recommend you stop watching FOX and CNN networks!

[One Wing Low]

dear mr. hophong,

according to you, this 'one' power (and its satellite states) cause all problems in vietnam, including causing hanoi's vice-minister of youth to [CodeWord123] a 14 year-old girl, causing communist party members to [CodeWord123] and steal the people blind, and causing the extreme poverty and rampant prostitution in the destitute population?

you will have a hard time convincing the rest of the world to place the blame of vietnam's problems on this 'one' power (and its satellite states).

perhaps you should update us on how your vice-minister of youth is doing after [CodeWord125] the poor 14-year-old girl. as i understand, the poor innocent girl was begging for mercy, and the vice-minister did not give her any.

perhaps your vice-minister has been promoted and celebrated as a people's hero after his evil deed, just to spite the civilized world.

child molestation is totally unacceptable and should be dealt with accordingly. the govt official in hanoi (should he be guilty) deserves the same punishment that should be accorded to those who can afford to pay-off parents of a minor because the 'justice' system allows them to buy the best lawyers. in my humble opinion the world is screwed up as it is because of one 'power' (and its satellite states) believing that their system is better than others. be as it may, one size does not fit all. when the 'western world' acknowledges that we will all be safer.

to all others: i apologize for responsing to this and the previous message. 'better than thou' attitudes seem to bring out the worst in me! i will not clutter this board with my responses to issues such as these any more.

[Silly Puppy]

Here we go again. This is very naive of you WM. I wonder what level of education you got. It originated in Athens with the Greeces. It is a long and proven progress which has been tested for couple thousand years. And you are right on this: communism (not socialism) is indeed a theory which had never been tested before Karl Marx published his Communist Manifesto in 1848. While democracy is a gradual progress which takes many years to mature, Marx's communism advocated the abolition of property in land, the application of all land rent to public purposes; abolition of all rights of inheritance; abolition of all religions, etc. These daring and never-been-tested-before callings had a deadly consequence and ruined million lives which we all know so well.

"Vietnam has come a long way, and like it or not there are a lot more ways to act free there than in many "Civilized" countries."

This statement which comes from a Westerner is indeed ignorant. "Acting free than many civilized countries" is correct to a minority, the ruling class, and not to the mass.

""Democracy" does not have a cleaner track record than "communism"

Hummm, with your knowledge on these subjects I doubt if you can come up with evidences to support your claims.