Hanoi

[Silly Puppy]

Here we go again. This is very naive of you WM. I wonder what level of education you got. It originated in Athens with the Greeces. It is a long and proven progress which has been tested for couple thousand years. And you are right on this: communism (not socialism) is indeed a theory which had never been tested before Karl Marx published his Communist Manifesto in 1848. While democracy is a gradual progress which takes many years to mature, Marx's communism advocated the abolition of property in land, the application of all land rent to public purposes; abolition of all rights of inheritance; abolition of all religions, etc. These daring and never-been-tested-before callings had a deadly consequence and ruined million lives which we all know so well.

"Vietnam has come a long way, and like it or not there are a lot more ways to act free there than in many "Civilized" countries."

This statement which comes from a Westerner is indeed ignorant. "Acting free than many civilized countries" is correct to a minority, the ruling class, and not to the mass.

""Democracy" does not have a cleaner track record than "communism"

Hummm, with your knowledge on these subjects I doubt if you can come up with evidences to support your claims.

[White Monkey]

On your side Haiphong.

Civilization has many different meanings.....what is more cilivilized a country that eats dog or a country that blantantly murders innocent people in the name of bloody oil.

Communism and Democracy are both historical theories written by outdated philosophers. If either one had the opportunity to run as planned, unihibited by greedy individiuals, then they're as great as sliced bread.

Vietnam has come a long way, and like it or not there are a lot more ways to act free there than in many "Civilized" countries. Walking outside safely after dark for one. "Democracy" does not have a cleaner track record than "communism" it just seems to be on top for now. Both pseudo systems have been historically shoved down the collective throats of the masses (South America to Southwest Asia).

Unfortunately the problems are the same all over the world. Consumerism run rampant, greed, and a lot of poverty. Most of the world is run by an oligarchical corporate system. If we think a particular political, economic or religious system as an evil thing then we should wake up...it it the individuals that are corrupt.

We all know that there is no perfect system, thus, one-size-fits-all system just doesn't work. However, using this as an excuse to continue the existing uncivilized system also doesn't work. So does it sound like there is nothing the current regime can do to improve its system? This particular communist system we are talking about doesn't allow its citizens to participate in its change or modification. The citizens are at the mercy of Communist Party and its members. This is why democracy in Western world even if it is not perfect it is still the best.
Of course I am not here to advocate democracy the way pres Bush is doing. Forcefully applying a system on others is anti-democracy and therefore wrong. A good tool in certain hand can be beneficial or harmful to others. A bad tool will always be harmful.

[Haiphong]

child molestation is totally unacceptable and should be dealt with accordingly. the govt official in hanoi (should he be guilty) deserves the same punishment that should be accorded to those who can afford to pay-off parents of a minor because the 'justice' system allows them to buy the best lawyers. in my humble opinion the world is screwed up as it is because of one 'power' (and its satellite states) believing that their system is better than others. be as it may, one size does not fit all. when the 'western world' acknowledges that we will all be safer.

now, let us all pray for justice. u.k. thailand, cambodia, vietnam. next stop, hopefully, hell!

gary glitter held over child sex allegations

john aglionby, south-east asia correspondent

monday november 21, 2005

guardian

vietnamese police yesterday questioned the shamed rock star gary glitter for a second day over allegations he had sex with **** girls, following his detention on saturday at ho chi minh airport as he tried to flee to thailand.

glitter, 61, whose real name is paul francis gadd, is being held in the resort city of vung tau, where he has lived since march. he allegedly committed "obscene acts with a minor". detectives confirmed that the singer, who served two months in prison in britain in 1999 after being convicted of paedophilia, is still being held but declined to comment on whether he would be prosecuted.

the authorities decided to hold gadd after questioning a 15-year-old girl they found living in his home last week. the former singer had already fled by then, reportedly with a 14-year-old girl who described him as her husband.

the foreign office confirmed that a briton was being detained in vang tau, 50 miles from ho chi minh, but declined to identify the person. if prosecuted for consensual sex with a minor, gadd could face 12 years in prison.

child protection experts say vietnam is becoming increasingly popular with foreign paedophiles because neither the authorities nor the public have much experience of them.

"it's very easy for children to be exploited because society doesn't know a lot about sex tourism and so doesn't have the vigilance," said le hong loan, unicef's chief child protection expert in vietnam. the police also lacked expertise, she said. "they're not prepared to deal with the issue. they're also very cautious about dealing with foreigners."

paedophiles are moving away from traditional haunts such as pattaya in thailand and phnom penh in cambodia because of greater awareness there, according to christine beddoe of ecpat, a group campaigning to end child prostitution.

gadd was detained in cambodia in 2002 but was never prosecuted. he was forced to leave after an aggressive campaign by women's rights groups

[Silly Puppy]

We all know that there is no perfect system, thus, one-size-fits-all system just doesn't work. However, using this as an excuse to continue the existing uncivilized system also doesn't work. So does it sound like there is nothing the current regime can do to improve its system? This particular communist system we are talking about doesn't allow its citizens to participate in its change or modification. The citizens are at the mercy of Communist Party and its members. This is why democracy in Western world even if it is not perfect it is still the best.
Of course I am not here to advocate democracy the way pres Bush is doing. Forcefully applying a system on others is anti-democracy and therefore wrong. A good tool in certain hand can be beneficial or harmful to others. A bad tool will always be harmful.

[Haiphong]

People like you and me may get death penalty in VN for the same crime. And we will get maximum jail time for the same crime in US. BUT, the top communist party member can get away with couple years in prison OR similarly Michael Jackson (or OJ) is forever a free man. It is difficult to judge, though, what system is fair just based on these extreme cases. However, in Western world everyone is considered innocent until proven otherwise. It is quite opposite that in VN. Which jungle is better?

Child molestation is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE and should be dealt with accordingly. The govt official in Hanoi (should he be guilty) deserves the same punishment that should be accorded to those who can afford to pay-off parents of a minor because the 'justice' system allows them to BUY the best lawyers. In my humble opinion the world is screwed up as it is because of one 'power' (and its satellite states) believing that their system is better than others. Be as it may, ONE SIZE DOES NOT FIT ALL. When the 'Western world' acknowledges that we will all be safer.

To all others: I apologize for responsing to this and the previous message. 'Better than thou' attitudes seem to bring out the worst in me! I will not clutter this board with my responses to issues such as these any more.

[Co Van My]

[QUOTE=Pansted00]Please note that the DAEWOO is totally guest unfriendly.
Impossible to bring a guest at the moment.

Policies like this in Vietnan seem to change faster and more capriciously than any place else in Southeast Asia (although Thailand's nightlife regulations are running a close second).
****************************
In my past trips to Hanoi, I was always able to bring back girls, both from the Q-Club, which is located on the hotel grounds, and from other places that are not connected with the hotel.

The Q-girls said they had to pay $30 out of their fee to security, but the outside girls seemed to get by without any payment as long as I walked them in and out. Maybe the staff was reluctant to confront anyone in my presence.

Pansted, would you describe exactly what you experienced that leads you to say that the Daewoo is not allowing girls in now?

[Silly Puppy]

People like you and me may get death penalty in VN for the same crime. And we will get maximum jail time for the same crime in US. BUT, the top communist party member can get away with couple years in prison OR similarly Michael Jackson (or OJ) is forever a free man. It is difficult to judge, though, what system is fair just based on these extreme cases. However, in Western world everyone is considered innocent until proven otherwise. It is quite opposite that in VN. Which jungle is better?

[Pansted00]

Please note that the DAEWOO is totally guest unfriendly.

Impossible to bring a guest at the moment.

I'm headed to Hanoi in Janaury and would like to know of any "guarenteed" guest friendly hotels? This seems to be issue without much info.

Thanks.

Old Guy[/QUOTE]

[Haiphong]

... for child molestation, as an example for all decadent foreign devils.

meanwhile senior communist party members can freely molest, abuse or even murder anyone in vietnam without any accountability. hanoi's vice-minister of youth was caught [CodeWord125] a 14 year-old girl in a hanoi hotel last year. nobody in vietnam dares question why this dumb bastard never stood trial and was never accused of any crime.

if one goes into the jungle, one must be prepared to face the jungle's justice...

let's also talk about another "dumb bastard"...remember lt. william calley by any chance? ever been exposed to agent orange? iraq, afghanistan, guantanamo, etc., etc. are all examples of civilized behavior, right? talk about 'jungle' and 'jungle's justice'.

[One Wing Low]

... for child molestation, as an example for all decadent foreign devils.

meanwhile senior communist party members can freely molest, abuse or even murder anyone in vietnam without any accountability. hanoi's vice-minister of youth was caught [CodeWord125] a 14 year-old girl in a hanoi hotel last year. nobody in vietnam dares question why this dumb bastard never stood trial and was never accused of any crime.

if one goes into the jungle, one must be prepared to face the jungle's justice...

police search for gary glitter in vietnam
thu nov 17, 7:56 am et
hanoi, vietnam - authorities said thursday they are searching for former british rock star gary glitter over his alleged relationship with a vietnamese teenager.

foreign ministry spokesman le dung said officials have confirmed that glitter, 61, whose real name is paul francis gadd, was residing in a home in southern vung tau city and had applied for permanent resident status in vietnam.

in vietnam, the crime of sexually abusing a child can lead to the death penalty.

[Intransit]

Police Search for Gary Glitter in Vietnam
Thu Nov 17, 7:56 AM ET
HANOI, Vietnam - Authorities said Thursday they are searching for former British rock star Gary Glitter over his alleged relationship with a Vietnamese teenager.

Foreign Ministry spokesman Le Dung said officials have confirmed that Glitter, 61, whose real name is Paul Francis Gadd, was residing in a home in southern Vung Tau city and had applied for permanent resident status in Vietnam.

Glitter rose to fame with glam-rock songs in the 1970s, most notably his only U.S. hit, "Rock and Roll Part 2," a largely instrumental song that has been a staple at stadium sporting events for years. Among his other songs hits were "I'm the Leader of the Gang (I Am)" and "Do You Wanna Touch."

Glitter fell from grace in 1999 when he was convicted in Britain of possessing child pornography. He served half of a four-month jail sentence before being released. He later went to Cambodia and was permanently expelled in 2002, though Cambodian officials did not specify his crime or file charges.

Dung said that Glitter had left the house on Nov. 12, and police are seeking his whereabouts.

"At present, relevant authorities Ba Ria Vung Tau province are trying to trace this gentleman, and clarify the relationship between this gentleman and a Vietnamese juvenile," he said.

Dung said authorities have conducted interviews with a 15-year-old girl who they found in the home rented by Glitter.

"If evidence of a (legal) violation is found against Mr. Paul Francis, and especially evidence of sexual child abuse, I believe that very strict legal measures will apply to him," he said.

In Vietnam, the crime of sexually abusing a child can lead to the death penalty.

[Primmer]

Hello,

I'm headed to Hanoi in Janaury and would like to know of any "guarenteed" guest friendly hotels? This seems to be issue without much info.

Thanks.

Old Guy

[Pansted00]

Anybody been here lately?

Can you take the girls back to your room at the Daewoo now?

Last time I went it was the crackdown and none would come to my room.

Is the crackdown over now?

[Fer Sure]

Hey Ernie,

Please report back.

The Malia is a fancy hotel!

Also, they have listed 'massage services' on their website.

Look forward to hearing from you.

fs

[Rayiii99]

This is my third time to Hanoi. I did not go to Vietnam almost 2 years. It made some change. The girl in Fortuna is change too. The price is the same with 2 years. $60 ST and $80 overnight. Most girls just want to ST and very rush.

Feel depressing for Hanoi girl.