Ho Chi Minh City - General Info

[Mojoke]

Great post Asian Rain,

This will be very helpful with my trip.

You have my thanks sir.

Dunno if you'll be there when I arrive but I owe you a beer.

[Co Van My]

saigon for first timers
updated as of april 2003

[disclaimer, december 2005: after seeing asia rain’s excellent post on his saigon p4p strategies, i coaxed myself into posting this faq for first timers. unfortunately, many of the specific places i mention here have closed since 2003 or have changed beyond recognition. i can no long vouch for them, but i decided to leave them in the faq just in case anyone wants to do some exploring with an “old map.” as a matter of fact, some of my most memorable experiences have been pure serendipity, something i found along the way while looking for something else. so, with those caveats, here’s my faq, started long ago and last updated in 2003].

this abbreviated faq is a response to the questions from many of my friends who plan to explore saigon for the first time. it is merely a starting point. once you have your feet on the ground, you will quickly find other places to go.

night life in saigon is abundant. unless you speak vietnamese or a vietnamese accompanies you, it is best to start out in places that cater to foreigners -- at least until you begin to understand how the game is played. there are wonderful places on the outskirts, with unimaginable delights. veteran travelers will jump right into them without any preliminaries, but most first time saigon visitors would do well to learn the ropes someplace where there are other foreigners around.

2003 comments
i was in saigon at the beginning of the sars epidemic. the city really wasn’t aware of it yet. it may have had an effect later, but not while i was there.

several new discos have opened with ear splitting volume levels (not my style). lots of new restaurants.

my general impression is that there are more bars, more and prettier ladies, and higher levels of services than in the past. hotels are more permissive. more bars have short time rooms (or knee-scuffed pool tables), and high-end prices seem to have come down a little, while low-end street prices have remained about the same. there is no reason ever to be lonely in saigon!

on the other hand, i also found more rip off bars than before; notably those near apocalypse now on thi sach street, and paradise on hai ba trung. these places either pushed lady drinks way too hard or, in the case of paradise, deliberately short changed me not once but twice.

hotels
things are changing, but up until the last couple of years, bringing a lady guest back to your hotel was not permitted. the normal routine was to go to a short time hotel and pay $10-$30 for an hour or two. in vietnam, short time hotels are usually the ones referred to as a “mini hotel,” but not all “mini’s” are short time. actually, mini hotels, as the name implies, are simply small, privately owned hotels, whereas the big, regular hotels are either state-owned or joint ventures with large international partners. in theory, your payment covers two rooms, one for you and one for your girl friend. this is all eyewash for the police, of course, since prostitution is illegal, and the government periodically mounts short lived but aggressive campaigns against social evils. your girl friend will be able to suggest the proper ‘mini,” but in case she is a true amateur, here are some good stand-bys.

mini hotels
i used to suggest two or three specific guest-friendly hotels, but i have decided to remove these from my faq. first, because there are so many such places that finding one is really not a problem; second, because so many people read these reports that the small hotels i have recommended in the past swiftly get overrun.

regular hotels (that may permit guests)
it is now possible to bring girls back to many of the larger hotels with only small or no extra charges, but the girls had to leave their id’s with reception. there are also restrictions on the time of day. afternoon and early evenings were ok, but very late night or overnight visits were not generally allowed.

i have not tested their guest policies personally, but i have had girls tell me specifically that they could go to the new world hotel (upscale and expensive) and the bong sen hotel (comfortable, newly refurbished, $35 a day). your girl will probably know whether to try it or not. or, just ask the front desk.

just remember that vietnam is much more conservative than thailand and cambodia. the staff will know very well what you're up to and they will be very judgmental. in my case, i use my hotel for business and for greeting friends and straight ladies, and i would definitely not be comfortable parading my "other side" in front of the staff. i think it would reflect very poorly on those whom i meet there.

new world hotel
76 le loi
district 1
saigon
tel: 848-822-8888
fax: 848-823-0710

bong sen hotel
117 dong khoi
district 1
saigon
work: 848-829-1516
fax: 848-829-8076
e-mail: bongsen@hcm.vnn.vn
guests must be out of the hotel by 11 p.m.

here is a very short list of my favorite places where vietnamese language is not an absolute requirement.

dance clubs
in general, there is a door charge of $5-10. a dancing partner is available for about 200,000-vnd/hour. these are beautiful girls, aged 18-25, in elegant cocktail dresses, chinese split dresses, or vietnamese ao dai. tips are expected (200,000-vnd about average). these clubs feature live singers and traditional (vietnam-style) ballroom dancing. rumba, tango, bebop, cha cha, slow, etc. if you don’t know the dance step, fake it with any american step you feel comfortable with. the girls are excellent followers. nearly all the clubs feature disco type dancing during the breaks.

liberty (tu do)
80 dong khoi
q.1
saigon
829-9820
small but friendly. relatively good selection of girls.

rex hotel
le loi street (i don’t know the address, but this is a famous hotel, any taxi will know it.)large room, girls dressed in plain colored ao dai, the vietnamese long dress. good music. conservative atmosphere.

maxim
dong khoi street, next to the majestic hotel.
this is a favorite of returning vietnamese tourists, who say it is the best of the lot. elegant, stunning ladies, pricey.

discos
these clubs all have small entrance fees ($5-10). they are full of house pros, freelancers, and amateurs. eye contact and a smile will bring them over to you if they are interested.

gossip disco--hotel mercury
(closed for construction in april 2003. may or may not reopen)
tran hung dao street
q.1
this is my personal favorite pick-up place. there’s usually a large number of ladies here, many of them very beautiful. they used to have good music from a filipino band, but currently it’s only recorded disco music. there’s a mini hotel within a short walk: thanh thao hotel.

medusa club
at the end of the long alley beside the amara hotel.
323 le van sy
q.3
saigon
848-843-9999
disco, karaoke
very upscale, but reasonably priced. more than 80 beautiful girls for singing, dancing, cuddling. couch seating around a dance floor downstairs. karaoke upstairs. this is a favorite of the koreans, but most of them have gone back to korea. ask the mamasan for someone who can speak english. many, but not all, will go to a hotel with you.

disco inside vien dong hotel
name used to be cheers, but now has changed to something else.
275 pham ngu lao street
trendy dj music. lots of freelancers.

freelancer places
almost every nightspot abounds with freelancers: bars, discos, nightclubs, etc.

old standby:
apocalypse now, thi sach street
this place has been around a long time and seems to be the hands down favorite of western visitors and expats. it gets absolute jam packed to the point it’s hard to move around. plenty of ladies, some very new to the trade, some just looking, some amateurs.
no entry fee except for unaccompanied ladies, so sometimes it’s fun to wait outside until a pretty candidate shows up alone, and you can offer to escort her inside so she avoids the cover charge. nice ice breaker.

old but comfortable:
backpacker bar
pham ngu lao street
this has been in the heart of the backpacker district for a long time. i have usually avoided it in the past, but when i ambled by the last time, some nice traditional jazz was wafting out the door. i went in for an hour of relaxing recorded music over several whisky sodas, and i left with a sociable young lady who spent the night for d-450,000.

new place:
cadillac club
77-89 nam ky khoi nghia.
upscale, live music, nice bar, quieter than most, lovely freelancers.

bars
pha ly bar
74 hai ba trung
saigon
hostess bar. here, the girls are down and dirty. you can get fs upstairs for $30 total.

stephanie's (cafe dep)
work: 825-8471
14 thai van lung street
@ le thanh ton
saigon
aggressive hostess bar, but the girls are often stunners. they will really hustle you for drinks, so you need to keep your wits about you. you can take girls out of here, but there is sometimes a bar fine. better to discreetly make an appointment for later, or for a nooner the next day.

sun - moon bar
work: 848-824-4295
74-b hai ba trung
saigon
a bar downstairs and mediocre live music upstairs. full of girls.

the monkey bar (aks huu dien).
ha ba trung, corner of lam son square (one block uphill from hien & bob’s). avoid this place unless you a very high tolerance level for being hustled for drinks. this place is packed with hostesses who want to drink up all your money except exactly what you’ll need to pay them and a hotel later. ok to stick your head inside, but be prepared to cut and run.

mac thi buoi street
between dong khoi and hai ba trung
several hostess bars along this street (e.g., crystal, u-2 (formerly green field ii) long vy). many of these bars have short time rooms, pretty grungy and not always private. asking prices are $30 (d-450,000), with half going to the mamsan. since street prices usually start at about d-200,000, there’s not a lot of room to bargain.

hien & bob’s place
43 hai ba trung
for a change of pace, this venerable bar offers some beautiful but conservative waitresses and a quiet place to relax alone or with friends. the ladies are always in traditional ao dais, but under the guardian eye of owner hien, they rarely offer more than coquettish conversation, although a high percentage of them have ended up marrying their regular customers. bring your manners and a happy disposition and you’ll have a pleasant time.

barber shops
there are three kinds of barbershops in vietnam: straight, shampoo-facial-massage (sfm), and shampoo-blowjob or more (sbj).

please don’t leave vietnam without a 2-hour sfm shampoo. you don’t need to get a haircut. the specialty is a cool, long shampoo, a facial, and a body-massage (fully clothed). under the right circumstances, with discretion, you can move to considerably higher plateaus on subsequent visits. i have never tried to meet any of the girls outside, but i have the phone number of several of them, so i’m sure it’s possible. this is an unforgettable, sensual experience.

sbj. there are at least a dozen of these strung out over a half-mile stretch of dien bien phu street starting at approximately #76 and stringing all the way to #380 and beyond. i picked up the following report off the web. sorry, i didn’t note the name of the poster, so i can’t give proper credit. however, i have verified the information. these are straight out bj places. sometimes you have to remind them to do the shampoo.

“… the barber shops (with potted palms out front) on dien bien phu from the canal to the traffic circle intersection with soviet nghe tinh have certain services available for 60k vnd (one place tries to charge 100k) plus 60k-100k to service provider (after services rendered). level of service depends on the provider and your vn lang. skills. most consistent quality of service is ben my (green/yellow sign) near canal. the providers are sometimes interested in meeting clients for after-hours (closing is 10:30pm to midnight) entertainment. attractiveness is variable. take a long slow walk and you should be able to find someone you like lounging out front. don't let them hand you off to someone else.”

a cyclo or honda driver can help you find a similar place, but they will probably extract a commission, which will drive your price up. here are the key words, with phonetic, american pronunciation. tell your driver you want goy dow (shampoo) and massa maht (facial massage) voy guy dep (with a pretty girl). he’ll get the picture.

daytime dates
many girls will be eager to spend the day with you for free. it’s a date! here are some places to go for a relaxed outing.

dam sen park
this is a big, sprawling park in district 11, a 20 or 30-minute taxi ride from the heart of town. it has a zoo, many nice walking paths, an elevated perimeter train, outdoor cafes, and many other exhibits and attractions. this is a favorite place for taking posed wedding pictures. on any given day you will probably see three or four brides in flowing white gowns, together with photographers and entourages.

water park
a big theme park about 15 minutes north of saigon in the area known as thu duc. this place is a lot like its american and european cousins: water slides, raft rides, etc. it’s a good place to play, or just stroll around. there are several secluded seating areas under thatched shade canopies where you can usually find some privacy.

vung tau
this is an easy day trip or overnight from saigon. the high speed hydrofoil boat makes the trip down river to this beach town in about 1h 20m at a cost of about $10. there are several departures each day from the river docks at the end of ham nghi and dong khoi streets. once in vung tau, you can take a taxi or honda to any of the four beach districts. beach vendors will rent you a canvas lounge chair and an umbrella dirt cheap, and others will pass by to sell live crab and shellfish, which they will cheerfully steam up for you beside your table. some bread, some beer, oh yeah!

cyclos
i advise avoiding riding cyclos after dark until you are very familiar with the city and the culture. the risk of being ripped off or rolled, while still quite low, has risen markedly over the last couple of years. plus, many/most of the younger drivers are obnoxious pimps who are very aggressive at trying to take you to a bar or massage place where they have special ties. also, they will extract a commission from any bar they take you to (taxi’s won’t), limiting your chances of bargaining down the prices inside. you will have no trouble linking up with ladies by taking taxis to the places i have listed. nevertheless, cyclos are fun, and i recommend you try one during the day. pay no more than 10,000-vnd for a 5-15 minute ride. the locals would pay less than 5,000 for the same thing. rates for a two or three hour tour are negotiable. unless you speak pretty fair vietnamese, i suggest you let your hotel negotiate a price so that it is fair, and even more important, understood by both parties.

money
if you like to carry cash, i strongly recommend new-issue $100-bills. these are readily changeable in the hotels. also a supply of $10s and $20s is helpful, but not required, when paying mini-hotels. old-series, dirty, or damaged bills are often not changeable. i don’t have any personal experience with traveler’s checks, but they seem to be in common use, at least in the hotels. i wouldn’t count on having them accepted in most restaurants or bars.

atms:
there are two atm machines that accept western atm cards and dispense cash. at the present, they dispense only vietnamese dong. the vietnam banks impose no surcharge for this service. the exchange rate is the international settlement rate, so about as good as you can get anywhere. atm’s are available at

new hong kong bank
cach mang thang tam street
adjacent to the new world hotel
saigon

new hong kong bank
opposite the catholic church at the end of dong khoi sreet
open 24 hours

anz bank
at the foot (river end) of hai ba trung street
saigon

the current exchange rate is just under 14,000-vnd for $us-1.00. ergo,
$100 = vnd-1,500,000
vnd-10,000 = $0.67

appointments with a lady
while it is common to pick up a girl at a bar or disco and go from there to a short time hotel, there is another alternative. if you like afternoon delights, you can easily make an appointment for the following day. the problem is making absolutely sure, given the language problems, that you both know the time and place.

here’s my solution. go to one of the mini hotels and pick up some of their business cards. at the same time, tell the desk clerk that you would like to come back a day or two later with your girl friend, just to be sure there is no embarrassing problem at the time of check in. then, when you meet a girl with whom you want to make an appointment, give her the hotel’s card, and write the appointment time on it. wait for her in the lobby and make another quick contact with the desk clerk. this is a sure-fire approach that has never failed me. it also puts the whole affair on more of a girl friend basis, which everyone will appreciate: the girl, the hotel, and you. one caveat: don’t take any other girls to the same hotel. the girls will be told, and the whole girl friend illusion will evaporate.

miscellaneous tips
dutch treat (not!). it is quite possible to forge a quick friendship with a variety of vietnamese guys, anyone from a business associate, to a sales clerk, to a waiter, or even a taxi driver. vietnamese are very friendly people. true, some are out to rip you off, but others will truly enjoy and be mesmerized by your company. they can steer you to a lot of places that foreigners don’t often go. but beware: if you suggest going somewhere for food, drink, or entertainment, you will be expected to pick up the bill for everyone you go with. the reverse is also true. if an associate invites you to go somewhere (don’t confuse this with a mere suggestion or a tout’s sales pitch. you have to judge his intent and his ability to pay), he will expect to pick up your bill. there is no such thing as a dutch treat. you will insult your friends if you try to split the bill.

now, for my usual disclaimer. if you're simply looking for sex, there are lots of cheaper and easier places to find it than vietnam. but if you are in vietnam on business, or for a wider range of tourist pursuits, there is no reason to be lonely. vietnamese ladies are something special. for many of us, they are the most beautiful, loving, and erotic girls in the world. good luck!

[Traveler1234]

This is a compilation of the District 1 areas that I have personally used to pick up P4P action in HCMC. I have augmented it with an annrequired... once you have spotted a girl, your best shot is to position yourself at the edge of the sidewalk and lean up against one of the poles or phone kiosks. If a girl stops and you are not interested, just gently wave your hand to decline and she will go away. If a girl you are interested in does not stop, it may help to discreetly wave your hand to get her attention. If I can do so discreetly, in order to attract a cutie I have also barked "YOU" when the girl passes by.y in advance under any circumstances - the incentives to perform will disappear.
fo
Last words - there are a LOT more places to try - bars, discos, karaoke, other SW spots, etc. There are many useful posts from other members which can guide you to these places - READ the POSTS.

Enjoy HCMC! AR+

I'd like to nominate this for report of distinction...great FR and map AR!

Can someone a little more tech savvy move this post over?

[Asian Rain]

This is a compilation of the District 1 areas that I have personally used to pick up P4P action in HCMC. I have augmented it with an annotated tourist map so that everybody can better pinpoint the places that I am talking about. I will make references to the areas marked by RED DOTS on the map as I go along.

GENERAL THOUGHTS AND ADVICE

- Cost vs. Peformance: I tend to try to minimise the former and maximise the latter. I may not always achieve this goal, but I look for good bang for the buck. I don't have the access to the significant network of places that service locals nor do I have the time/patience to cultivate freebies. I usually have a small window of time in the evening after going out to dinner with colleagues, so I want a "sure thing" at a predictable price without hassles. Oh, and I HATE bloody karaoke for P4P, so you won't see me writing about those providers.

- Hotels: All tourist and upper-class hotels have varying policies against guests - from "never ever" to "only till a certain time at night." I KNOW Sofitel will allow guests till 9pm (they must leave an ID with the desk). Caravelle will allow guests until 11pm. I KNOW that Sheraton does its best to enforce a "never ever" policy. DON'T ask me about other hotel policies.

This means for most cases you will have to use a small family-operated "mini hotel." These hotels are most often legitimate hotels, but thier main business may be servicing short time girls in the evening. I have encountered two types - cheap US$10 hotels (usually without aircon) and better US$20 hotels (aircon and big bed). As a foreigner, each hotel will charge you a full night's rate for 1-2 hours of use. I have even been rushed out of a hotel after 20min on one occasion (and ended up taking the phone off the hook to enjoy a bit more time)! Always pay for your hotel in Dong - VND150k for a $10 room or VND300k for a $20 room. If the hotel clerk asks for more, just smile and wait till they take the money you offer. Most hotels will ask you for your passport for registration. I NEVER carry my passport - I just smile, shrug my shoulders and say "sorry, no have" to the clerk. They never refuse me a room. All hotels will hand you or the girl an industrial strength condom (yes, they know what you are there for) that will remove any chance you have to feel a pussy. Recommend that you bring your own supply. If you use the hotel condom, you will be charged VND10,000 when you leave, so bring it back upon checkout if you don't use it.

- Negotiating: With moto girls, always negotiate in Vietnamese Dong. At the current exchange rate, it is better to pay VND300k instead of offering US$20. Be clear on your unit of currency to avoid misunderstanding... I write 3-0-0 on the palm of my hand and say "dong" and make sure the girl nods her head.

Girls from Apocalypse, Hai Ba Trung bars and other foreigner-catering places will generally deal in US$ denominations. Spoiled.

- Safety: I have never been ripped-off, but I am extra careful and have heard some awful stories. You should be wary too... NEVER bring more money than is necessary. REMOVE any unnecessary jewelry/watches/etc. ALWAYS lock the door of the hotel room yourself. ALWAYS keep your valuables in sight - for example, NEVER allow the girl to take you into the shower and shut the door... while this is happening someone will enter the room and rifle your pants. NEVER trust the girl - she doesn't trust you either!

[A] THI MINH KAI/INDEPENDENCE PALACE MOTO GIRLS [Ref #1]

Girls of varying beauty ride around on motos - alone or with a driver - looking for short time customers. The girls usually start to come out past 10pm after the nearby park closes. Best to stand in the darkness of the shops (near red dot #1) and look a bit helpless - the girls will drive up onto the sidewalk and come to you. If a girl stops that you like, use sign language to negotiate a price. This is the cheapest action I have personally experienced - US$10-15-20 for ST.

I have used these girls 4 times. Each time the girls have taken me to the same depressing non-airconditioned (fan only) mini hotel near the old Sahara Bar. Each time the hotel has charged me VND150k (US$9) for an hour of room usage. Each time the girl has required me to pay in advance so that the driver can bring the money back to her mama-san. This has led me to believe that these girls are not independent operators. Each time the girl's attitude has declined once I handed over the money: TWICE girls reneged on agreements to do video, one refused to do a simple blow job and ALL rushed the service. This is a direct product of paying in advance. Once you have handed over the money, the girls have no incentive to do anything but get things over with - quickly and painlessly (for them). One pop and you are DONE.

PROS: Cheapest cost. It's darker and the girls are easier to approach. CONS: Cheapest service.

[B] SMALL PARK ACROSS FROM CARAVELLE HOTEL [Ref #2]

FL SW girls will often hang around the small park area across from the Caravelle hotel. They are all looking for foreigners with cash. I have quoted prices with 3 girls - all wanted US$40-50 ST, all were average, none was worth patronizing.

PROS: You could find a gem, but doubtful. CONS: Hit-or-Miss presence, and the taxi drivers will spot you and pester you. Usually girls with babies. Pricey for the quality.

[C] HAI BA TRUNG BARS [Ref #3]

Starting at #49 and #51, there are a couple more bars up to the one next to Pomodoro restaurant. Small places with blackened glass doors. If you are alone or with another male friend, the doors will open and a tout will try to guide you in. There are actually many other Ha Ba Trung-type bars as referred to in other posts, but the system is generally the same in other bars.

Each bar employs 10-20 girls - generally good looking and a couple real cuties. In theory it is possible to go to these bars and just have a beer, but that's not the point. Beers cost circa VND25,000 and girl drinks cost circa VND50,000. Best to CONFIRM THIS and ALWAYS KEEP COUNT. These bars get used a lot for business entertainment - hence you will see a lot of expats entertaining colleagues... they are there for some fun and fondling in the dark but not much else.

When I am taken to a Hai Ba Trung bar, I almost always reject the first girl to approach me. I ask the mommy for a young cutie with big tits and a tight ass. Once I see something I like, I will tell the girl to get a drink. NOTE: You will HAVE to buy the girl a drink or she cannot stay with you. I tell the girl to drink slowly. Once you have bought the girl a drink, you have the right to fondle her within reason - that is what she is there for. That is why I like the big tits and tight ass. It seems the more you fondle, the quicker the girl drinks her drink. I think the girls are programmed to let the drink last for a maximum of 15min, so you can think of it as VND200k (US$13) per hour to have the girl accompany you. I always get the girl to show me her tits and pussy, but don't bother to attempt much else.

If you are fondling very actively, any clued-in girl will sense this and usually suggest going away to a mini-hotel for boom-boom. FS ST quotes I have gotten are US$50 for 2 hours plus $20 for the hotel. I have done this twice and had reasonably good experiences. If you take a girl out, all transactions will be between you and the girl. The girl will take you to a reliable safe mini-hotel that has protection from the police. In some ways I can see why these type of bars are popular - US$100 is not a big cost for an evening of booze, broads and a nice bang to the business crowd.

Some places have private rooms in the back or upstairs. I recollect that #51 has Japanese-style private rooms, but have never used them. They are there for hosting groups - the rooms aren't really designed for complete privacy (glass windows on the doors), so I doubt there is much possibility for on-site services.

All of these bars have a pool table. If you play, the girls will likely want to join in and play for money - one real time/money waster is to play strip pool. If you win a game, the girl takes off an item of clothing. If you lose, you pay the girl VND100k. This is why I get the girl to show me her tits and pussy right from the start - why does anyone want to play so many games of pool and buy so many drinks just to see tits and ass?

If you don't want to take a girl out but still want action, another possibility is to get the girl's phone number. ALL the girls have the latest posh Nokias, so just have her program her number into your phone and then call her the next day to meet up at your hotel (assuming it is guest friendly during daytime hours - see above). You won't save much money, but at least you can have your fun in the comfort of a better hotel. You can also try to take the girl before your hotel's curfew, if you have that luxury.

PROS: Some nice gems to be had for the businessman budget. Relatively safe, anonymous and straighforward - especially if you are entertaining guests. A chance to "know" your girl before you really "know" her - which might end up a GFE. CONS: Pricey. If you get a bad girl, there is no returning her.

[D] APOCALYPSE NOW BAR [Ref #4]

A lot has been said about the decline of this place, so I won't add anything more but to concur. The last three times I have been there in the last 10 months have yielded zero P4P. Not that you can't get it, but it isn't even worth it. Older girls asking for US$75-100 for ST just isn't my zone of acceptability. Take a look and you will likely agree.

PROS: None that I have experienced. CONS: Poor girl/guy ratio. High-priced drinks. Bad music. Girls with poor beauty/cost ratios.

[E] THI MINH KHAI/HCMC ZOO AREA [Ref #5-9]

Okay, I have saved the best (IMHO, based on the 10 girls that I have taken) for last, but those of you staying in the city centre will have to take a $1 moto/taxi ride to get there. First, I pack a rucksack with my video camera/light, a fresh towel from the hotel and my kit pouch with silicone oil and condoms. I usually take a moto to the zoo main entrance at the end of Le Duan (ref #5) and then walk to the zoo entrance on Thi Minh Khai (ref #6) across from the Mitsubishi dealership (ref #7). I walk the last bit because I don't want any moto drivers to know where I am going... if they know you are after girls, some will try to take you places not worth going. Some mongers seem to be walking Le Duan to the zoo main entrance, but the girls rarely cruise this area - there is the National Museum, a school and several sugar cane juice stalls on Binh Khiem, so LE keeps this area sanitized. It does not make sense to go before 9pm... there is a hell of a lot of traffic and some of the shops will still be open.

Try to arrive between 9:30-10:00pm. If you are expecting a dark alley with girls hanging about in fishnet stockings and mini skirts, you will be in for a shock. This part of Thi Minh Khai is a very crowded road in the evening and girls riding the motos will usually be in street clothes - although I have seen a few dress rather sexily. So your first move should be to sit down on the high step in front of the zoo right behind the bus stop. I like to sit here because it is not immediately obvious to onlookers that you are hunting for P4P... you could just be a tourist from the zoo. Look out into the traffic... you will spot the occasional young girl zooming by. If you watch the pattern carefully, you should be able to discern 5-10 girls circling. Just try to get a handle on the potential selection. It will seem that the girls are not looking at you - they will seem to look forward and be completely focussed on the road. But believe me, they are VERY AWARE of your presence. There have been occasions where I was not able to spot any girls in this area (I guess because of LE crackdowns.) Both times I was able to find the girls circling up the road at the bridge (ref #8). You can sit on the railing of the bridge to get the pattern as well.

Some posts have asked what is the "system" here. Well, the system was really designed for guys with motos that can cruise in traffic and talk up the girls while in motion. It was not designed for mongers hanging on steps a few meters back from the road. One thing to keep in mind: the customer base for these girls is local guys - they may never have serviced any kind of foreigner. I think the girls find it just as uncomfortable to stop and proposition a foreign stranger as it is for a foreigner to be standing at the side of the road flagging down Viet girls on motos. But that is just what is required... once you have spotted a girl, your best shot is to position yourself at the edge of the sidewalk and lean up against one of the poles or phone kiosks. If a girl stops and you are not interested, just gently wave your hand to decline and she will go away. If a girl you are interested in does not stop, it may help to discreetly wave your hand to get her attention. If I can do so discreetly, in order to attract a cutie I have also barked "YOU" when the girl passes by.

Once they stop, they will say something like "go hotel mini massage boom-boom." Most of these girls cannot speak any English, they will just want you to hop on the back as stopping by the side of the road attracts unwanted attention - for both you and the girl. Before I hop on, I draw 3-0-0 on my hand and say "dong" to mean that I am offering VND300k for FS. Although this may not be applicable to you, I also confirm pic friendliness by saying "photo/video ok?" Once the girl nods acceptance, I hop on.

NOTE on economics: Local guys typically pay VND150k (or less) to the girl for ST and VND50k for hotel. A foreigner offering VND300k ST is a rather generous sum in this market. My observation is that these girls are relatively independent operators. Just remember, once you have paid a certain sum, the girls will remember.

The girl will almost always take you to one of the many mini hotels behind TMK (ref #9). Sometimes the hotels are full and you will have to try another hotel. Once we arrive at the hotel I will VERY discreetly (without removing it from my rucksack) show the girl my video camera to ensure that she is okay for video. I really like the hotels behind TMK - all take VND150 for ST and offer clean aircon rooms with a big bed. I would even highly recommend them for long-term stay - all legitimate, cheap, clean, safe and girl-friendly! What more would you want? Pay, get your key and go up. I have had girls ask me to pay her FS fee upon check-in. I just point to upwards and say "in room." The hotels don't have any business relationship with the girls that I am aware.

Once in the room often the girls will ask for money up front - they will hold out thier hand. I always reply "boom-boom one, money two." If the girl seems particularly skittish, I will take out my wallet and show her the money. Once, and only once, I took out the money and laid it on the table. I did not let her take it until the job was done. I DO NOT recommend to pay in advance under any circumstances - the incentives to perform will disappear.

Sometimes the girl will just start undressing... this is when I pull out my video cam, oil and equipment from my bag. I like to make sure that the girl will not balk on video, which they occasionally try to weasel out. Don't tolerate it - I will start packing up if the girl refuses! Anyway, you can take a look at my pic sets for an idea of what an experience with these girls is like. I have had some very pleasant girls, but nothing approaching GFE - no 30 min quickie is going to provide that. You should assume that your girl may need some assistance to know what to do... I have had girls strip, lay on the bed, spread their legs and just lie there waiting for me to penetrate them. Remember, this is the service that locals probably get, so a little patience and education can help - use hand gestures to lead the action. Once you are finished (one pop only), you can wash up, pay the girl (I add a VND50k tip if the girl was especially nice), grab a moto outside and go back to your hotel for sweet dreams.

PROS: My favorite balance of price/performance - some nice 18-21yo cuties. A good challenge if you are a "hunter" type monger. CONS: An intimidating process and environment for the first-timer.

Last words - there are a LOT more places to try - bars, discos, karaoke, other SW spots, etc. There are many useful posts from other members which can guide you to these places - READ the POSTS.

Enjoy HCMC! AR+

[Artisto Art]

VietSingles and VietFun. You get 3 free responses per day and if you join $9.99 (gold) you get 50.

Many girls give up there number quickly and some have them readily available for Gold Members.

They have written directly to my email address and have sent add'l pics. So it looks for real.

PM me and maybe we'll meet up, may be there when you around.

Cheers!

[Bamboo Pete]

Thanks for the hints, AP ,

but BJ for 50 Bucks is not a real bargain compared to A.C or BKK, aint it?

How abount the massage places?

Cheers,

BP

[Mojoke]

Hi guys,

I'm heading to saigon in two weeks. I've been there only once before and had a fairly slow go at it. I didnt get that many girls, they were mainly motogirls right around newworld. Tryed a hoc toc in cholon, the girls there were 1-3 looks wise. I didnt try any other hoc tocs but if you guys can recommend one I'd love to give it another try. Went to the APOCNOW once but it was overcrowed with guys and I ended up drinking 3 beers and heading back to the hotel. Didn't try any other discos, but from reading the board it seems a good place for stunners but expensive (for vietnam anyways). Any advice you guys can give would be welcomed.

BTW tryed the vietfun chat rooms last nite (probably too late) and got nothing but a bunch of abv's swapping normal chatroom stuff, dunno if it was me using opera or not but didnt get a single invite (will try again today). It would be nice to get a cutie to show me the sights.

Mojoke

[Fun Sex]

Guys,

I went to VN for my vacation. I stayed there for more than a month. I just got back. I have so many things that I want to tell you guys, but let me rest for a few days. I will update my info soon.

FS

[Asia Rocks]

BP,
Never really paid attention to names, only one I remember is U2 which actually is on a side street just off Hai Ba Trung. There are two side by side on Hai Ba Trung, Nos. 49 and 51 which, in addition to being the address, might also be the name.

Anyway, when you are at the right location you will know it and, yes, some bars have back rooms and some don't. Just go in and you will immediately have a date. Ask your date if she will do BBBJ in back room. Guaranteed 100% of the girls do BBBJ so the only issue is whether they have a back room (at some places the "back" room is upstairs).

Price is what you negotiate, but they will probably ask for $50.
Cheers, AR

AR,

Does this mean that some bars have a room and some not? How do I find bars which specialize on BBBJ ? Can you give me some bar names? How about the prices?

Thanks,

BP

[Bamboo Pete]

AR,

Does this mean that some bars have a room and some not? How do I find bars which specialize on BBBJ ? Can you give me some bar names? How about the prices?

Thanks,

BP

[G Jelly]

So where's the best place to sit and wait around? I walked up and down both NTMK and Le Duan, and that strip between them with the entrance to the zoo. No dice. Is there a cafe somewhere outside that I can sit and wait?

It's kinda frustrating, this not being able to find it.

[QUOTE=Danielus20][QUOTE=Asian Rain]As the night park has opened for kids near the zoo entrance opposite the Mitsubishi dealership on NTMK, the moto girls seemed to have stopped crossing the bridge. I now walk over the bridge and sit on the railing. The best pattern I can discern is that girls start up the street and make the turn around about halfway up the bridge.

This place Asian Rain mentioned is still going strong. Though I don't exactly know the system - not every girl will stop for you. None seemed to speak english if you care about that.10-15 bucks was the 1hr rate on offer from most. I found the spot from my lonely planet guidebook map - it's about a 20 minute walk from the big cathedral down town.

[Asia Rocks]

Hi guys ,

I'm SE Asia experienced but I'll be the first time in VN this coming January. I'm not really keen to bring girls into the hotel or go to a mini hotel , I rather like to do the 'business' in a back room of a bar. Are there any special places for BJ or ST ?

Cheers,

Bamboo Pete

BP,
Yes, you can do that in some of the hostess bars on Hai Ba Trung St.
Cheers, AR

[Bamboo Pete]

Hi guys ,

I'm SE Asia experienced but I'll be the first time in VN this coming January. I'm not really keen to bring girls into the hotel or go to a mini hotel , I rather like to do the 'business' in a back room of a bar. Are there any special places for BJ or ST ?

Cheers,

Bamboo Pete

[Danielus20]

[QUOTE=Asian Rain]As the night park has opened for kids near the zoo entrance opposite the Mitsubishi dealership on NTMK, the moto girls seemed to have stopped crossing the bridge. I now walk over the bridge and sit on the railing. The best pattern I can discern is that girls start up the street and make the turn around about halfway up the bridge.[QUOTE]This place Asian Rain mentioned is still going strong. Though I don't exactly know the system - not every girl will stop for you. None seemed to speak english if you care about that.10-15 bucks was the 1hr rate on offer from most. I found the spot from my lonely planet guidebook map - it's about a 20 minute walk from the big cathedral down town.

[Retired Army]

Why is this place so Popular? Music way too loud, much too crowded and drinks overpriced.