Ho Chi Minh City - General Info

[Txmanny]

Culturally speaking, Vietnam is still a conservative country where most of the "old-fashion" females are not allowed to express their affection publicly. Though this is a dying way due to the influence of the "MTV" generation, it's still not common for a vietnamese girl to express her interest in a male the way it's done so overtly in the states. Also realize that most girls that we speak of in this forum are girls that are in the business of entertaining guys. They should not be used as examples to generalize the cultural ways of the majority of other women in the country. So to say that vietnamese women are subservient toward westerners is an incorrect and grossly bias statement. Girls that work in the business of entertaining guys are exposed on a daily basis to all sort of characters. So they learn how to play the "game" quickly and are often more clever than their male clients. Therefore, they tend to be as shaddy as most guys that they encounter in their work environment. You shouldn't treat these girls that work in bars, clubs, and bia-oms any differently than a stripper in the states. Like it or not, those that entertain guys for a living are mostly of the same breed no matter what country you visit. If you are ingrained in Vietnamese culture, you will find that people, particularly in Saigon, are not subservient but quite the opposite.

[LexLuther]

Wendella,

You hit on a point about Vietnamese culture that Americans like myself (who were here two generations ago with U.S. military) found very difficult to understand. It's still a conumdrum to many of us. There may be a variety of reasons why Vietnamese do this. Perhaps they think it rude to say something which they think you don't want to hear. Or it may be a general attitude of subservience toward Westerners which causes them to fear disappointing us. It may be an Asian attitude which discourages saying anything negative.

Then again, perhaps they did intend to keep the appointment but at the last minute realized that doing so would subject themselves to censure from their fellow Vietnamese. It's hard to say. But it's important to realize that these people find it hard to be as direct and straightforward as Americans. It's a curious anomaly of their culture but an important one for us to be aware of.

Lex

[Wendella]

Just a warning to some, this place isn't always as easy to succeed in as you'd think by reading these posts. It's also common (I'm told and have experienced myself) to be played by a girl there -- she'll be very friendly and very eager to try to make a date with you, but the next day you'll discover that was a totally false impression because she'll cancel the date at the last minute... or else just not show up. And then maybe reschedule only to do the same thing again the next time. This happened to me and one of my friends there, more than once. It's possible to do better than this, I'm sure, but it's something to be aware of. There's nothing automatic there. Unless you get propositioned to go home right after the club closes and actually meet the girl outside, which could happen. I think that would be much more likely to actually come about if she is the one who proposes it. If you ask for that, she'll probably say yes (to encourage a good tip) and then it's questionable whether it actually will happen. Yes, so for ourselves, getting straight answers from these girls has been tough. My impression is that they'll always answer by saying whatever they think you want to hear.

[Michelangelo]

Will be going to Saigin first time in a couple of weeks. Where is 4 Trong 1 to be found? Sorry for asking if address has been posted before, but cannot find it. Thanks in advance.

While I am asking, is there any interesting place close to Windsor Plaza to be visited?

Thanks for all advice.

[Txmanny]

Hello,

In Saigon, girls who work at these "entertainment" establishments such as bia-oms, bars, clubs, etc. are working girls. You may occasionally find a non-working girl but this is rare; meaning she will not entertain your proposition unless you two have a relationship of some sort. At 4 trong 1, if you want the girl to spend the majority of her time at your table you must TIP. Here are a few things to know. Apparently 4 trong 1 is divided into sections, within each section you have one manager (1 of the tie guys) managing multiple girls assigned to that section. If you are at a section that your girl is not assigned to, she will not be able to spend but a few minutes at your table the entire night. What you must do is get there real early, find the girl you like, and ask her what section she is assigned to for the night. It will be different each night because they rotate. Once she tells you the section she is assigned to go and sit there. Ask her who is managing her section and ask her to introduce you to him. Greet him by asking him to toast with you, shake his hand, and tip him 50,000 to 100,000 dong. Tell him you like this bar because of this girl and would like her to accompany you tonight. Doing these things will ensure her company with you most of the night. However, be a little thoughtful and remember that these girls make most of their money via tip. So be a little understanding and let your girl "roam" to different tables through out the night so she can make her money. You not being pissy when she leaves every now and then and being understanding toward this will give of the "good-guy" vibe. They love a thoughtful guy and this will make your ultimate goal a bit easier to achieve. Regarding if these girls will prostitute - most will, a few won't, and some requires a little effort. You must have encountered the effort one :-) I met me one of those too. Just remember that these girls work at these places because they need money. Just catch any of them during their desperate times and you will get what you want when the price is right. However, if they are not in desperate times, the effort factor comes in. Anyhow, back to the subject at hand. The girl I liked there at 4 trong 1 did not go out with me after work regardless of my persistency. She informed me that she could meet up with me the next day before work (they usually get to work between 6-8pm) after I have been at 4 trong 1 a couple of times asking for her company each time. However, she found some lame excuse the last minute to cancel the first time we made plan. She rescheduled for the next day. I think this is some sorta ritual during the courting process to show that the girl is not "easy" in Vietnam. Anyhow, after going out several times I was successful with my conquest. The nice guy card does really work in Saigon. Most foreigners and viet-kieus have 2 things working for them: money and the chance for these girls to escape their current hardship (which most of the time is poverty) via marriage. These two qualities over the domestic male will give you the advantage you need to approach most young ladies in Saigon. Here in the U.S. it's usually the superficial trait that will give you the advantage to approach most young ladies. Anyhow, all you must prove on your date in Saigon if your girl is the "girlfriend" type is that you are honest. Most males in Saigon date multiple girls at the same time so there is lack of faith in the male sex by their counterpart. If you are able to give of the vibe that you are a nice and honest guy, you will be successful in your conquest. It's not that hard, just be courteous, humble, and thoughtful on your date. After 2-3 dates you will get what you want. Of course, this is just my opinion and it works for me. Many guys just prefer the old fashion way, throw money at the girl until it works. To each his own happy hunting.

TXM

[Wendella]

TXMANNY,
I noticed in your post about 4 Trong 1 that you said you like to go during the week when it's not as packed because it leads to 'bad feelings'. I experienced something like that last time there, when it filled up on a weekday recently. The girl I know and like was at my table and was ordered to go to another. She snuck back but it seemed as if the tie guys would order her back to other tables as soon as she was spotted with me. At one point she was assigned to one table and apparently wasn't supposed to leave it. (they only had beers and a fruit plate by the way -- no Henessy!) I wasn't sure how it was that a guy can set it up so that the girl must stay at his table, because if I knew how to do that, I'd have done it. The tie guys? Do they order it? Or is there a tip given to the girl right away to make her stay? How does that work? But I couldnt' get to talk to her for most of the night after that. She'd come over briefly time to time but had to keep going back to stay there at that one table. Once I saw the guy she was with seeming to be chewing her out for coming to visit my table, he even pointed right at me as he was talking to her (she'd just been at my table). And after that she stayed near him.

But it seems as if any customer can request a girl even if she's already with another customer, and that customer can't do a thing about it. Unless there's something I'm missing, which there must be.

[Silly Puppy]

I've just come back from VN and have learned a few things from this long trip.
1) 5 star hotels do not allow guests after 11PM, but guess what? I still saw caucasian guys brought them in after 1AM. Some security guys and hotel hotests tried to stop the prostitutes from getting up but couldn't. I think if you mumble in English they will let you go. I saw couple beautiful girls with some ugly, big belly caucasians. Hummm, these girls are for me but being a Vietnamese it is difficult to bring them to the room.

2) Warning of new scam for Viet expat: I was in Nha Trang and went to a barber place to fuck a young chick. Cost me 350,000 for a lousy massage and 45 minutes of hard fucking. After leaving the place I hopped onto a Cyclo to go to a restaurant. I chatted with this guy and felt pity on him for being such a laborer so I told him to wait for me after dinner. This guy found out I was with my family and just got out of the *****house. So .... when I got out of the restaurant and happlily riding the cyclo back to my hotel there was a guy on a motobike came along and together with the cyclo guy they both tried to extort money from me. They were making a big scene not too far away from my hotel threatening me if I didn't give them $100 they'd come to my hotel and let me whole family know I fucked a *****. Feeling trapped and extremely angry, I didn't know what to do and was playing with time to find a way out. I jumped on another cyclo but these guys were following me around. Paid the cyclo driver I jumped to a taxi and asked him to take me to another hotel. I called my wife made some excuses for being late and didn't come back to the hotel until 1AM. I took the whole family out of Nhatrang the next day saying it was a bored town (and it really was).
3) I tried all massage places in hotels I'd stayed from Saigon to Hanoi. ALL girls gave hand job and were afraid of getting caught of fucking customers. I was able to ask a girl out and fucked her in another hotel. She was hot and never had someone licked her pussy before. I got her all worked up after putting dirty thoughts in her mind(she was married to a fool-around-type-of guy). And the reward was beautiful! She did not want to take my money but I insisted and gave her $30 after 2 hours of fun.
4) Went back to Danang and met the girl I fucked last year. I just wanted to see how she was doing. She was so glad to see me and proud too because soemone still missed her. Gave her couple hard fucks two days in a row I finally came after 3 trials with her. I gave her 600,000 VN dong total. She is a very poor girl with dignity. Lost her virginity in 18 to her lover, the guy then dissappeared. She didn't work as a prostitute until 25 after losing all money in a bad business. Her dream is simple; having a well in her house in Hatinh city.

[Asian Rain]

Eventually I signalled a girl on a scooter and we headed off to a hotel of her choice (15 minutes ride). Once there I made the BIG mistake of paying straight up.. I don't know why. 400 for the girl, 100 for the room. In the room, the girl turned into a little *****. She wouldn't suck my dick, kicked up a fuss when I got my camera out and started tugging at my cock like she was starting a lawnmower. Naturally this wasn't a real big turnon for me. I made it a quick release fuck and went on my way.

Gonad

Gonad/HCMC Mongers,

Probably should consider this a lucky outcome. The Zoo girls all use the hotels in the back alleys of Thi Minh Khai. If a girl is driving you 15min away, it should be a definite warning that something is wrong. They may try to take you to a hotel that they can run a team scam. It works like this: The girl rushes you into the room (hoping you don't notice that she didn't lock the door) and immediately want to shower together with you. She will be sure to close the door and start giving you a good wash. While you are in shower heaven, somebody will come into the room and rifle your pants. Then she will turn to ice once the shower is finished. You won't be able to prove that the girl did anything wrong and you will be screwed.

This is the rule for ANY HCMC girl: keep ANY valuables in your sight at ALL times. AR+

[Peter43]

I have been a regular traveller to HCM for the past 3 years, i go on average every 3 mths. Some of the guys that post on here live in HCM but always complain about finding girls. Why dont you find a few girls and just visit them different nights, you wont have to pay and wont have to worry about health risks. There are so many beautiful women in HCM, its not difficult.

[Gonad Man]

During a recent stopover in HCM, I was intent on locating some cheap affordable fun, if anything just to relieve the boredom of a long haul. By some freak of luck I was able to locate the zoo, though I wouldn't have any idea how to get back there. I was staying on the other side of town and just headed where my dick directed.

I got there and was offered service from a girl on the side. I decided that I wanted a hotter girl and stood on the side of the street opposite the Mitsubishi dealership and watched the scene. At first, I thought that nothing was going to happen. I realized that I needed to actually signal to the girls who were flying by. I saw a few cuties, but they were gone before I could signal. Walking down a bit further, I saw some girls on bicycles. One was really cute although when I approached she said something and pointed to her friend behind her (not that cute). I insisted, but she kept pointing behind. I walked away. What is the story with these bicycle girls?

Eventually I signalled a girl on a scooter and we headed off to a hotel of her choice (15 minutes ride). Once there I made the BIG mistake of paying straight up.. I don't know why. 400 for the girl, 100 for the room. In the room, the girl turned into a little *****. She wouldn't suck my dick, kicked up a fuss when I got my camera out and started tugging at my cock like she was starting a lawnmower. Naturally this wasn't a real big turnon for me. I made it a quick release fuck and went on my way.

Being my first time in HCM I guess I was not in my element, plus it's a real hectic city. I guess next time I might be a bit more prepared, but it just seems like pot luck with the scooter girls. I wonder if there is a better way to handle things...

Gonad

[RatuFreddie]

For all more or less permanent residents of Ho CHi Minh there is also the option of finding girls through dating sites or chatrooms. There is a very active vietnamese scene out there, very varied including horny, maybe married, housewives ,and young girls that " want to make the experience of a white" dick , original quote, and professional hookers and girls looking for sugardaddy and girls looking for bf/husbands. Possible to find all of this and much more.
Vietnamese language skills, at least basic, are helpful, though not in every case absolutely necessary. Pricing from free to astronomical.
I personally met many great (some not so fantastic too) girls through these channels, some freebies, some for cash. (my personal limit is USD 50, but usually 500.000 VND). Have to add hotel costs (appr 20$) if you dont have a pad available. More details are available to regular posters.
In my opinion only workable and worth the effort if you are here 1 week plus.

[Wendella]

Frances, the simple reason is that if you live here, those places all get old. You see the same girls every time, often don't see any you feel are worth going for -- usually there's no new girls there, just the same ones you saw the last few times you came. It gets boring. You need variety, you need the hope of finding something new. And the karaoke oms are also a different way to be interacting--a private room, no onlookers, a woman in a much more provacative/sexy dress than you're almost ever going to see in Apocalypse or Sahara. It's something different, basically, and more enticing in a lot of ways.

Someone below was asking why we try to make the best of the mediocre scene in Vietnam. Well, if you live here of course that's what you have to do. It's better in Thailand or Brazil or wherever, ok fine -- but I don't live there.

[El Frances]

Txmanny. I agree with you, but I am not sure it is cheaper to have a GF in vietnam, rather than paying girls from bars and discos.

One question: Why do you guys want to go into complex, time consuming, and rip-off risky approaches, such as in bia-om or karaoke-om, when it is so simple to go to Apocalypse, Sheraton, Sahara and other places, spend a nice time dancing and talking with a girl, and get a nice fuck for 50$ ? (and sometimes a GFE if you know how to choose the girls)


I Jags: many speak english, but very few speak well. Most girls in bars and discos are freelancers, some more pro than others. Forget about getting freebies in vietnam. You may get a GF, but my experience is that it is more expensive on the long run than the P4P market.
Hi !

[I Jags]

Does anyone in vietnam speak English? If so, can you tell how many and some ideas on meeting non-pros. Thanks.

[Wendella]

OK maybe what my friend did was normal for VN guys, but honestly my jaw dropped when he did it, and the only other very noticeable thing was that my girl never reappeared. My feeling is that while maybe it's not unusual, of course nobody wants to be humiliated and that's basically what he did. My gut says that his bad behavior was a factor in my not getting any attention from my girl. I gave my VN guy hell about it later, and he's basically blind to his role in it, denying basically... and blaming it 100% on the place. Which means he and I never go to one together again.

Here's a question. What kind of play should you get in the bia om? I mean we're talking here all about our obligations -- buying fruit, tipping this one and that one and how much, what not to do, etc etc. But what are the girls supposed to do? What can you expect to get for your money when you're THERE? How far can things go in that room? What's standard? What constitutes an especially good outing? Or a bad one?

Any other karaoke oms or bia oms worth checking out, especially ones with better looking girls, would be interested to hear of them. I'm not sure, but my name may be mud in this particular joint now.

Also, what about that tipping question? If your experience is as miserable as mine was, it seems absurd to tip well. You said to tip the mamasan, but if she's going to give you a thoroughly crap experience before you even have the opportunity to tip her... I mean, I'm pretty sure this mamasan was aware of how ridiculously bad it is to be in a place 50 minutes and get just 5 minutes with your girl. If I'd tipped her well, it would've seemed pathetic. Do you tip her at the end, or before when you first meet her?