Ho Chi Minh City - General Info

[I Jags]

Does anyone in vietnam speak English? If so, can you tell how many and some ideas on meeting non-pros. Thanks.

[Wendella]

OK maybe what my friend did was normal for VN guys, but honestly my jaw dropped when he did it, and the only other very noticeable thing was that my girl never reappeared. My feeling is that while maybe it's not unusual, of course nobody wants to be humiliated and that's basically what he did. My gut says that his bad behavior was a factor in my not getting any attention from my girl. I gave my VN guy hell about it later, and he's basically blind to his role in it, denying basically... and blaming it 100% on the place. Which means he and I never go to one together again.

Here's a question. What kind of play should you get in the bia om? I mean we're talking here all about our obligations -- buying fruit, tipping this one and that one and how much, what not to do, etc etc. But what are the girls supposed to do? What can you expect to get for your money when you're THERE? How far can things go in that room? What's standard? What constitutes an especially good outing? Or a bad one?

Any other karaoke oms or bia oms worth checking out, especially ones with better looking girls, would be interested to hear of them. I'm not sure, but my name may be mud in this particular joint now.

Also, what about that tipping question? If your experience is as miserable as mine was, it seems absurd to tip well. You said to tip the mamasan, but if she's going to give you a thoroughly crap experience before you even have the opportunity to tip her... I mean, I'm pretty sure this mamasan was aware of how ridiculously bad it is to be in a place 50 minutes and get just 5 minutes with your girl. If I'd tipped her well, it would've seemed pathetic. Do you tip her at the end, or before when you first meet her?

[Txmanny]

It's well known that many of these karaoke places (aka bia-om) are notorious for ripping their customers off. However, like I said before, you must familiarize yourself with certain etiquettes in order to have a good time. This can be said for much of the other forms of “entertainment” found in Saigon. The general consensus among people that are familiar with the bia-om scenery is that it’s not always the monetary factor but it’s your own personal "aggressive" nature that will determine whether or not you will succeed while paying the least possible. Let me explain, girls that work at these establishments are usually recruited from the countryside. They're usually un-educated, naïve, and somewhat “innocent” when first start. However, they are required to learn the tricks of the trade quickly in order to work in this environment. So over time they become very clever and wise. Here are some simple rules I usually stick with to have a good time while paying the minimum:
1) Never, never, never be aggressive with the girl that you want to develop a physical relationship with (no girls like to be degraded on front of their friends and customers so refrain from certain acts that are considered inappropriate in normal, customary society).
2) Tipping is a crucial element here. It used to be that 50,000 dong for the mammason, 100,000 for the girl, and 10,000-20,000 dong for the waiter was considered good tip. However, over the years foreigners and viet-kieus have inflated the tipping scale. What I mentioned above is considered below average tip now. High-class karaoke places (i.e. ones with high quality girls) will frown upon foreigners and viet-kieus tipping at the below-average rate. El Frances is right that 330,000 dong is a bit on the pricey end; however, it’s the going rate now. Tipping well = better service. Realize that tipping the girl 200,000 is considered average now. I’ve seen these girls get tip anywhere from 200,000 dong to 750,000 dong from their repeat customers.
3) Many of these girls will leave and go out with you after working hours. Whether or not anything can come from this is totally girl and money-dependent. Certain girls will gladly offer their service if an acceptable price is met. Others will require a “courting” period. This “courting” period usually entails a couple of repeating visits to her work, tipping well each time, taking her out on a couple of “dates”, developing a friendship with her, and some sort of small but thoughtful gift. This may sound difficult but is easily accomplished within a week’s time in Saigon and not much $$$. If you are successful during this courting period, the girl is yours for the taking. This “relationship” will ensure a wonderful experience in bed that does not require any monetary compensation. This will save you lots of money in the long run because you can call her to meet up with you during the day or after her work hours without having to go back to the karaoke place and spend money, get a good laid without having to pay for it, and the best thing is that you always have a back up plan every night if your mongering quest falls through.
4) This experience is not for someone with limited time during a business trip. If time is not something you can spare, I would stick with the disco/bar scene. This allows for a quicker laid but it requires $$$.

[El Frances]

Sorry I read the Thahn Loc report too fast and did not notice you were talking about a karaoke. So I guess 200 000 should be the fee for company in an upscale karaoke in HCMC. Nothing wrong about it. Sorry for the negative comments.

Wendella: that's the usual behaviour of vietnamese guys in karaoke to touch the girls like this.
Cheers

[El Frances]

Quote

"I usually tip the mammasan 100,000 dong, the waiter about 20,000-30,000 dong, and the girl about 200,000 dong"

That sounds like a rip off to me! Spend 300 00 dong just for people to be nice with you!These Bia Oms are rip off places, no wonder you guys complain about scams if you go to such places.
I have spent many months of my life in Vietnam over 5 years and never had a rip off experience. Of course I go to bars, discos, regular KTVs and always check if I have a good feeling with the girl. I just come back from Thailand, it's so nice! But I can get better girls in Vietnam than in Thailand (OK, nothing to compare with Chongqing-Eyeblink for "connaisseurs"!).

And I always run away when I see a papasan or mamasan. Vietnam is a freelancer place and that make it so nice compared to other countries where sex is like an industry! Spending money for mamasan is stupid (sorry, I don't mean to be offending to anyone, I just say what I think)

[Wendella]

#2234,

They're both near Nguyen Thi Minh Khai -- they're literally a few doors from each other. They're both big, both have karaoke. One is bigger, the one that's a tiny bit further north (as you head toward Dien Bien Phu). If you're not familiar with both of them, or know the exact address, then I think its just as possible you could mean either one. I'm guessing you're not in Vietnam now, so can't go check it out.

Maybe if you can describe it better. What is the interior like? The layout? How does it look inside? They both have little courtyards just off the street for parking.

Thanks

[Wendella]

txmanny,
ok well in retrospect, we had a few missteps at thanh loc. first, i found out afterward that actually one of those 2 sisters doesn't work there anymore, and the other was not with another customer but was in the countryside. (i have a txt msg with the names of which is which, not with me now though) my vn cohort misunderstood me when i told him to ask for the mamasans duyen or mai --he thought those were girls working there, so they told him no they don't have girls by those names. he also said no to the fruit plate right away. and when the girl came in, he quickly became very aggressive with her. pulled down her top to look at her breasts within the first minute,for example. it was my first time going with him to such a place, so i didn't expect anything like that. i was kind of shocked. i'm very much not that way, always wait to see how the girl will behave first, let her make the first moves. but it was obvious to me that the girl wasn't digging his company, or what he was doing. that didn't seem to deter him, though. he didn't even seem to notice. so i'd say his bad behavior may have been a factor in this disaster. maybe the main factor. the more i think about that evening, the more i realize i was tor****ed by my knucklehead vn friend.

and actually i thought by going as early as 8pm, i'd be beating the rush. but i guess not. if you went later, would ....well, do they let the girls leave with customers? so by going later then, would there be fewer girls left available because some have gone out with customers? if so, then going early is the only option.

important note: you suggest tipping the mamasan and the other guy... but normally you would need to do that at the end when paying the bill. and if they screw you over before you get a chance to tip them... or you tip them really well after they've just screwed you over, well... you see the problem.

[Txmanny]

Wendella,

A good time to arrive at Thanh Loc would be around 6:30 pm. Duyen is usually very reliable when she tells you a particular girl is busy. This place has 4 levels worth of rooms so you may not notice other customers there. It's common for the few high quality girls to entertain multiple tables at one time. This is because they are in high demand and 8pm-10pm is usually peak time for these karaoke places. The way to avoid this is to tip your mammason well, arrive early, and tip the girl well. This will ensure that when you come back the next time you will get preference over other guests. I usually tip the mammason 100,000 dong, the waiter about 20,000-30,000 dong, and the girl about 200,000 dong. Treat your girl nice (ie don't be overly aggressive and degrading) and you will be ensured the girl of your choice and the majority of her time even if she is entertaining multiple tables simultaneously. A good thing to do is to get the mammason's cell phone number, this will allow you to call in advance to inquire about the availability of your girl. If you are well known to the establishment (ie been there at least 2-3 times and tip well each time) they will hold the girl for you until your arrival and even prohibit her from entertaining multiple guests according to your preference. It's quite frustrating when you are a new customer to this type of entertainment. I too was frustrated when I first started going because the well-known guests always would get preference over the newer guests. However, there is plenty of "fun" to be had if you are successful in negotiating through this initial period of frustration. The sisters I mentioned earlier may be worth a second trip though. Hope I have been somewhat helpful.

[Sweetboy07]

Erik,

Thank you for your post. As I have to go to Vietnam for a business trip I thought to stay some days more there but as I red it is not interesting: so I will leave and stay some days in Bangkok which is on my way.

Best regards

[Member #2234]

There are actually two places very near one another on Cao Thang with this same Festival name. One is Festival 27, which is a few doors south of the other Festival. Fesitval 27 is closer to the cinema. Which one do you mean? The one further north is much bigger, though even the smaller one is pretty large.

Thanks

The large one close to Ng Thi Minh Khai end. It has a big karaoke

[RatuFreddie]

Surely everybody in the industry here is in it for the money, and scamming , not only foreigners but just as well compatriots, is to be expected in Vietnam. The only way to avoid this is to pursue other routes of (non commercialised) entertainment.
Chatrooms, Pen pal and firendship sites, there are literally thousands of vietnamese girls out there looking for everything from quick anonimous sex to long term paid girl friend relationships to marriage (arghhh).
Come in all shapes and sizes of course! Rich hunting grounds, but needs a little effort and sucess on any given night is not assured.

[LexLuther]

Erik is unfortunately too right. Lex spent two years in Vietnam, Republic of, was married to a Viet girl for over a quarter of a century, and has had long relationships with lots of Viets. If you read anything about the country, it's people, culture, history, you will read that venality is endemic. It is a shame because the people are industrious and intelligent. But ripping people off is never far from the consciousness of Vietnamese people.

LexLuther

[Erik]

Have you noticed the high percentge of posts reporting scams, bad experience, desappointment on this thread, compared to other threads in Asia ? Well, this is Vietnam. Here, cheating is the national sport, and sex business is never considered as a sex service, but more like an opportunity to rip off the customer. Unlike China, Cambodia, Thailand, etc, etc, etc. It is such a shame, with all the potential of beautiful, tender, cute and smiling girls in this country (and so good and hot in bed). If only they took seriously what they do, they really could develop and be rich. This is true in sex business as in all other industries in Vietnam. This country just wastes its potential !

[Wendella]

Went to THANH LOC last night. Not a good experience, sorry to say.

First, we met the woman Duyen (I'm fairly sure it was her and not Mai). She told us that one of those 2 girls (Phuong, Thuy) was busy with another customer (we arrived just after 8 and seemed to be the only customers at that point, tho I could be wrong) and that the other was in the countryside. OK, fair enough. So three girls were brought in to choose from. Then one more after we asked if there were only 3 available. My friend picked one from the first three. She came back in. My choice (the last one) left though. I presumed she'd be right back. My friend got to know his girl and I just waited and waited. 20 minutes. Asked where the girl was and the other girl said she went to the toilet. Um. Ok. FINALLY the girl came in and sat by me. We started to get to know each other. Maybe 5 minutes, not much more. A knock on the door: there was a phone call for her. I'm thinking now, why would a phone call take priority over spending time with the customer? Well, of course she was gone a long time again. It was now nearly 9pm, we arrived at about 8:10. I asked to switch to another girl, one from the first batch. No, she was taken already. A few minutes later, I decided this was hopeless, even if my original girl finally showed up the vibe would be terrible. Checkbill, please. A few minutes later I heard her high heels approaching down the hallway. No, sorry. Checkbill. Too late. Sorry. Checkbill. I'm sorry. No problem. Checkbill. Finally we got the bill, and I told Duyen why we were leaving. She motioned for me to tip the usher guy 30,000 (the guy who poked his head in the door and told the girl to go take her phone call), which I thought wasn't quite the response I was looking for.

In hindsight, it seems obvious that this almost certainly wasn't the girl's doing -- there must have been another customer she was simultaneously spending time with, and that couldn't happen without the management coordinating it. And the 'phone call' -- it was the staff that played that little charade. I doubt the usher was doing something the management didn't want him to do.

So while we didn't get ripped off on the beers or food, the experience was really a thorough disappointment. A ruined evening, really. By the time we got out it was too late to go to a similar Plan B.

I wonder if there's some way to prevent something like this from getting started. If this is how it is in these spots, then there's really no point going to them.

[Wendella]

For a good one with lots and lots of beauties, go to FESTIVAL massage on CAO THANG street, district 3, just off Ng Thi Minh Khai.

There are actually two places very near one another on Cao Thang with this same Festival name. One is Festival 27, which is a few doors south of the other Festival. Fesitval 27 is closer to the cinema. Which one do you mean? The one further north is much bigger, though even the smaller one is pretty large.

thanks