The Morality of Prostitution

[Engine Driver]

And in Bali they're known as Kuta Cowboys.

I saw a documentary once about a couple of late middle aged British women who save all year to go on their annual sex trip so a third world country where they have a young stud pleasuring them for the length of their stay. It seems that sex tourism for women operates a bit differently than it does for men. For us, it's generally a straight financial transaction but for the women it's more 'payment in kind' where they buy the guys gifts and treat them to dinners and a bit of luxury during their time together. Either way, it amounts to the same thing; a redistribution of wealth from people in the first world to people in the third via a mutually beneficial arrangement. As long as all parties are consenting to the activity, there's nothing wrong with it.

The film "Heading South", starring Charlotte Rampling is about this subject. Three American women go to Haiti for sex with local male prostitutes.

[Aussie Fella]

I've heard the same about Jamaica. The local beach boys are known as "Rastatutes" - black "Rasta" dudes with bad eyesight and need for Landwhale cash; and the sex tourist women are known as "milk bottles" that want to be filled up!

And in Bali they're known as Kuta Cowboys.

I saw a documentary once about a couple of late middle aged British women who save all year to go on their annual sex trip so a third world country where they have a young stud pleasuring them for the length of their stay. It seems that sex tourism for women operates a bit differently than it does for men. For us, it's generally a straight financial transaction but for the women it's more 'payment in kind' where they buy the guys gifts and treat them to dinners and a bit of luxury during their time together. Either way, it amounts to the same thing; a redistribution of wealth from people in the first world to people in the third via a mutually beneficial arrangement. As long as all parties are consenting to the activity, there's nothing wrong with it.

[Pahllus Maximus]

What a concept. Intelligent, free men of all ages enjoying each other's company and intellect whilst we ogle beautiful young women. That is what the bull dykes and sexually invisible sisters and their nihilistic cliches are jealous and fearful of. Because takes male eyeballs and resources away from their cloying grasp. And also because women mostly lose their looks after 40 and grannies ogling young guys at FKK's is just not what women generally do, and why there is no market for it. In essence, they lose their sexual force and a key part of a woman's identity and power, namely looks. Women do not dress up and put on makeup just for the hell of it. And of course, there are many women who do not have this female character flaw.

Women are jealous that we are men and are able to get lucky when they cannot or are not interested. It is our life force they resent. We can have gret hair and be senior and still have pretty young things smiling at us. Not so with the older, ordinary, chubby female.

I am coming round to the idea that the men's groups are angry for the wrong reasons. Those guys invested too much emotionally and financially in trusting a single point of failure (a western woman) rather than the ancient way of when men formed strong and close social groups and spread their trust and emotional bets with each other. The traditional society saw men in engaged in fun things, whether a coffee, fishing are chasing pretty girls. The Masons, Lion's and Rotary Clubs were more or less a cover story to hang out and do useful things. Women certainly spread their bets and whining amongst other women (and in the West, do not spare their male partner from their whining and complaining).

This lost art of masculine society what we as men forgot and why we feel marooned by feminism; the West lost sight of the best part of being a man: having fun and trusted relationships with other men unpolluted by sexual tension and haveing some time out from being a captive breadwinner for ungrateful women and their often ungrateful brood. Just ask any parent about teenagers if you doubt that.

And so when marriages break up, and statistically they are biased at doing so, men get fucked over, not just by the legal system, but aso emotionally. They forgot to build redundancy. Back up. Into their lives. Whining about women and feminism and blaming it or the entire femail population is not the answer. The answer is to act like a man, be emotionally stong and open, but well in advance, and with trusted male friends. We need to teach young men and ourselves this ancient art.

I have a theory that insecure women are terrified of us figuring this, being resiliant out and not needing them so much, or at all. Hookers are the perfect bit of fluff for men, we get the best of all worlds: NOT being under the pussy monopoly or foolishly having ivested our whole deck of emotional cards with a single point of failure woman.

So, what this has to do with P2 P is this: rather than living under tyranny of P2 P unfriendly countries (in fact anti-male, but dressed up as trafficking, itself caused by artificial scarcity and supra profits = crime), leave them be.

Join the talent and money exodus from our failed social experiment in the USA that is now just a market, and one with highly repressive laws and militarized cops who shoot and arrest indiscriminately, like unpaid $50 parking tickets in many places.

Those in control take offense that as living, functioning red-blooded males, we like pretty women and engage in the oldest tradition that was invented about the same time when people started trading food and shelter. The reasons are deeply rooted in economics and controlling and channeling male energy, talent, wealth creation toward reproductive enslavement.

We have anti-P2 P laws abut ignore kooks with assault rifles and regular mass slaughter. The only thing I want to shoot is my seed into the hot mouth of a pretty girl. It strikes me as inherently deranged that it is legal to buy assault rifles (that are inherently anti-social and deadly) but frown upon and spend resources trying to cock block and lecturing us about male entitlement.

I'd wager 95% of the guys here and elsewhere will show chivalry very naturally and automatically when put the position of needing to protect women and kids. We don't need their condescending bullshit lectures or dictating who we can consensually sleep with.

[Travv]

I've heard the same about Jamaica. The local beach boys are known as "Rastatutes" - black "Rasta" dudes with bad eyesight and need for Landwhale cash; and the sex tourist women are known as "milk bottles" that want to be filled up!

Not always.

The Gambia is a sex tourism destination, but for women, not men. They go for the local beach boys.

[Swpc10]

Women buy sex but less frequently than men do, because in the developed world even lower class unattractive women have access to free sex from young men. Take for example, the recent case of a 31-year-old single mother in the UK who met her 16-year-old toyboy lover on Facebook. She asked him to come over and help sort out the Bush in her garden. He parted her whiskers and planted his seed. Nine months later, he was taking delivery of the harvest.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3780...-happy-family/

Even a 39-year-old mother of three in the UK can be impregnated by a 24-year-old toyboy, becoming a "4 x 4" (4 children from 4 different men). Therefore, purchasing sex is not a necessity for women unless they are particularly frowsy hags or have cravings for exotic cock.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3652...rs-her-junior/

Not always.

The Gambia is a sex tourism destination, but for women, not men. They go for the local beach boys.

[Dickhead]

hungry survivors got a mouthful of cock and their guts full of sperms before getting food to eat.http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sses-need.html

Gas, ass, or grass; nobody rides for free.

[Chocha Monger]

The latest Oxfam scandal in Haiti reveals that the charity is full of relief workers who gorge on cheap sex in disaster zones. Charitable johns regularly purchase sex and host orgies in their luxurious accommodations in countries such as Bangladesh, Chad, Nepal, and the Philippines. Oxfam claims that 41 percent of donated funds go toward emergency response operations. However, it gives no mention of the percentage of that money expended on orgies and other sexual services for staff.

Apparently, some of the Oxfam relief workers operated on a "fuck for food" model where hungry survivors got a mouthful of cock and their guts full of sperms before getting food to eat. Ironically, the charity claims its mission includes the elimination of poverty and inequality in all its forms. Meanwhile, those who depend on the charity are learning that there is no such thing as a free meal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...sses-need.html

[Milfotronic]

Women buy sex but less frequently than men do, because in the developed world even lower class unattractive women have access to free sex from young men. Take for example, the recent case of a 31-year-old single mother in the UK who met her 16-year-old toyboy lover on Facebook. She asked him to come over and help sort out the Bush in her garden. He parted her whiskers and planted his seed. Nine months later, he was taking delivery of the harvest.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3780...-happy-family/

Even a 39-year-old mother of three in the UK can be impregnated by a 24-year-old toyboy, becoming a "4 x 4" (4 children from 4 different men). Therefore, purchasing sex is not a necessity for women unless they are particularly frowsy hags or have cravings for exotic cock.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3652...rs-her-junior/

It may be true what you say that women don't need to buy sex like male sex mongers do. However, sex tourism is more than just fucking the neighbor or inviting someone over on Facebook. It's about new experiences and excitement, and getting away from home. A white middle-aged woman on a Gambian beach might find herself surrounded by black guys, all eager to make her happy for a cheap buck, or free drinks and dinners. It's a fantasy many women can't resist. We all have sexual fantasies.

[Intransit]

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-41349301

For most of her life in prostitution in New Zealand, Sabrinna Valisce campaigned for decriminalisation of the sex trade. But when it actually happened she changed her mind and now argues that men who use prostitutes should be prosecuted. Julie Bindel tells her story.

When Sabrinna Valisce was 12 years old her father killed himself. It changed her life completely. Within two years, her mother had remarried and the family had moved from Australia to Wellington, New Zealand, where her life was miserable.

"I was very unhappy," says Valisce. "My stepfather was violent, and there was no-one to talk to. ".

She dreamed of becoming a professional dancer and set up a lunchtime ballet class at her school, which proved so popular that a well-known dance group, Limbs, came to run lessons.

But within months she found herself on the streets, selling sex to survive.

Walking through the park on her way home from school, a man offered her $100 for sex.

"I was in school uniform so there was no mistaking my age," she says.

Valisce used the money to run away to Auckland, where she checked into the YMCA.

"I tried ringing someone to ask for help in the phone booth which was outside the hostel, but it was engaged, so I waited," she says.

"The police stopped and asked what I was doing. I said, 'Waiting to use the phone'. ".

The officers pointed out that no-one was using the phone, so there was no need to wait. They thought they were being "terribly clever" Valisce says. But didn't seem to understand when she explained that it was the telephone she was calling that was engaged.

"They searched me for condoms thinking I was a prostitute because the YMCA was behind Karangahape Road, the infamous prostitution area.

"Ironically, that was what gave me the idea to go get some money. The police scared me but I knew I was going to be on the streets if I didn't get cash, and the act of leaning against a wall was all it took to be searched and threatened anyway, so I figured it made no difference if I was or wasn't. ".

Valisce walked over to Karangahape Road and asked one of the women working there for advice.

It felt like there was a revolution coming. I was so excited about how decriminalisation would make things better.

She pointed out two alleyways where Valisce could work. "She also gave me a condom, told me basic charges and advised me to make them fight for services I was prepared to do, to avoid fighting against services I wasn't prepared to do. She was very nice. Samoan, too young to be there, and clearly been there for too long already. ".

In 1989, after two years working on the streets, Valisce visited the New Zealand Prostitutes Collective (NZPC) in Christchurch.

"I was looking for some support, perhaps to exit prostitution, but all I was offered was condoms," she says.

She was also invited to the collective's regular wine and cheese social on Friday nights.

"They started talking about how stigma against 'sex workers' was the worst thing about it, and that prostitution is just a job like any other," Valisce remembers.

It somehow made what she was doing seem more palatable.

She became the collective's massage parlour co-ordinator and an enthusiastic supporter of its campaign for the full decriminalisation of all aspects of the sex trade, including pimps.

"It felt like there was a revolution coming. I was so excited about how decriminalisation would make things better for the women," she says.

Decriminalisation arrived in 2003, and Valisce attended the celebration party held by the prostitutes' collective.

But she soon became disillusioned.

The Prostitution Reform Act allowed brothels to operate as legitimate businesses, a model often hailed as the safest option for women in the sex trade.

In the UK, the Home Affairs Select Committee has been considering a number of different approaches towards the sex trade, including full decriminalisation. But Valisce says that in New Zealand it was a disaster, and only benefited the pimps and punters.

"I thought it would give more power and rights to the women," she says. "But I soon realised the opposite was true. ".

One problem was that it allowed brothel owners to offer punters an "all-inclusive" deal, whereby they would pay a set amount to do anything they wanted with a woman.

"One thing we were promised would not happen was the 'all-inclusive' says Valisce. "Because that would mean the women wouldn't be able to set the price or determine which sexual services they offered or refused. Which was the mainstay of decriminalisation and its supposed benefits. ".

Aged 40, Valisce approached a brothel in Wellington for a job, and was shocked by what she saw.

"During my first shift, I saw a girl come back from an escort job who was having a panic attack, shaking and crying, and unable to speak. The receptionist was yelling at her, telling her to get back to work. I grabbed my belongings and left," she says.

Shortly afterwards, she told the prostitutes' collective in Wellington what she had witnessed. "What are we doing about this?" she asked. "Are we working on any services to help get out?

She was "absolutely ignored", she says, and finally left the prostitutes' collective.

Until then, the organisation had been her only source of support, a place to go where no-one judged her for working in the sex trade.

It was while volunteering there, though, that she had begun her journey towards becoming an "abolitionist".

"One of my jobs at NZPC was to find all of the media clippings. There was one thing I read: it was somebody talking about being in tears and not knowing why, and it wasn't until they were out (of the sex trade) that they understood what those feelings were.

"I had been through that for years (thinking), 'I don't know what's going on, why am I feeling like this?' and realised when I read that: 'Oh God, that's me. '.

For Valisce, there was no turning back.

She left prostitution in early 2011 and moved to the Gold Coast in Queensland, Australia, seeking a new direction in life, but was confused and depressed. When her neighbour tried to recruit her into webcam prostitution, she politely declined. "I felt like I had 'working girl' stamped on my forehead. How did she know to ask me? I now know being female was the only reason", says Valisce.

Afterwards the neighbour hurled insults at Valisce whenever she saw her.

Valisce began to meet women online, feminists who were against decriminalisation and described themselves as abolitionists. The abolitionist model, also currently being considered by the UK's Home Affairs Select Committee, criminalises the pimps and punters while decriminalising the prostituted person.

Valisce set up a group called Australian Radical Feminists and was soon invited to a conference. Held at the University of Melbourne last year, it was the first abolitionist event ever to be held in Australia, where many states have legalised the brothel trade.

Melbourne itself has had legal brothels since the mid-1980's, and although there is a lot of vocal support for the system, there is also a growing movement against it.

She describes this period, when she became a feminist activist against the sex trade and began to feel free of her past, as "the start of my new life".

"I exited first emotionally, then physically and lastly intellectually," she says.

After the conference Valisce went to a doctor and was diagnosed with PTSD.

"It was as a result of my time in prostitution. It had affected me badly, but I was good at covering up the effects," she says.

"It takes a long while to feel whole again. ".

For Valisce, the best therapy is working with women who understand what it's like to go through the sex trade, and those who also campaign to expose the harm prostitution brings.

She is also determined to ensure that the women who are usually silenced by their abusers have a voice.

"It's not my goal to trap people in the industry or tell anyone to go get out," she says. "But I do want to make a difference, and that means speaking out as much as I can, in order to help other women. ".

Julie Bindel is the author of The pimping of prostitution: Abolishing the Sex Work Myth.

[Rocinha]

I have read about German and British women going to the Caribbean to pay men to have sex with them. The destinations I read about were Jamaica and Dominican Republic. I first read about this 15-18 years ago!

I found this in the Daily Mail from England:

They are called 'bumsters' in Gambia, 'Rastitutes' or 'beach boys' in the Caribbean and 'sanky pankies' in the Dominican Republic.

These are the men who, in increasing numbers, are providing sex in return for money or goods to women who want a holiday 'romance'..

On this subject watch the film "Heading South" starring Charlotte Rampling- released in 2005. It is about middle aged American and European women holidaying in Haiti in the 1970's. Haiti was a popular tourist destination during the regimes of Papa Doc Duvalier and later his son, Baby Doc. It is a superb film which handles the topic with care. These women are seeking adventure and fun in exotic Haiti with young Haitian men. There is a book of the same title by Haitian writer, Dany Laferriere

[Chocha Monger]

The idea of the stereotypical buyer is a guy buying sex, oftentimes in some developing or underdeveloped country, from some poorer woman. It has become more common though that white women travel, particularly to Africa, to buy sex from poor guys, in the African case from black guys. I don't see this as a problem. The problem as I see it is that our culture is blind to this fact. We have a hard time admitting that this is occurring. We still want to believe that women somehow have a different and more "pure" sexuality and wouldn't engage in this kind of activity. In other words, we don't believe female "johns" exist. We have seen rich female celebrities finding themselves toyboys, like Madonna, but the thought of women engaging in sex tourism is still a blind spot in our culture.

Women buy sex but less frequently than men do, because in the developed world even lower class unattractive women have access to free sex from young men. Take for example, the recent case of a 31-year-old single mother in the UK who met her 16-year-old toyboy lover on Facebook. She asked him to come over and help sort out the Bush in her garden. He parted her whiskers and planted his seed. Nine months later, he was taking delivery of the harvest.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3780...-happy-family/

Even a 39-year-old mother of three in the UK can be impregnated by a 24-year-old toyboy, becoming a "4 x 4" (4 children from 4 different men). Therefore, purchasing sex is not a necessity for women unless they are particularly frowsy hags or have cravings for exotic cock.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3652...rs-her-junior/

[Dickhead]

I did not monger when I was married. But, my wife would do anyfuckingthing in bed, and I mean anything. If I could think of it, she would try it, and the shit she came up with on her own was way weirder than my shit. So that helped. I never mongered when I had a steady girlfriend, either. At least for me, if I started thinking about needing hookers, it was usually a sign that the relationship was on the way out anyhow. Personally, I would not be very comfortable with having to hide shit from a serious GF.

The European model of stay married and have a mistress has always intrigued me, but seems awfully expensive.

[Travv]

"Did you notice there is not one prohibition on sex with a prostitute back in the Law? That's almost a trick question because it doesn't appear on the list, but idolatry is forbidden and part of many of the idolatrous practices was having sex with cult prostitutes for money or with ordinary individuals for free. Deuteronomy 23:17-18 condemns and prohibits both male and female cult prostitutes. But not ordinary money-for-sex prostitution. So actually, what would be perfectly legitimate sex, if done in the context of idolatry is now a sin. Because of the idolatry. But the Easter Bunny needs the idolatry separated from the sex to claim that sex is sinful. The Easter Bunny hates sex. Notice there is not a single reference, anywhere in the Law, that prohibits a man from having sex with any woman he is eligible to marry, whether he is married or not. It is not a sin. ".

https://artisanaltoadshall.wordpress...hurch-history/

Interesting discussion. The Old Testament law did not prohibit hiring prostitutes, with the exception of temple prostitutes of heathen gods. Therefore it is not a sin. Adultery (Men sleeping with other men's wives) or relations with relatives was prohibited.

As the title states, what is everyone's opinion on continuing to seek paid company after marriage?

I've been a frequent customer since I was introduced to P4 P in my college days. That was about 15 years ago. And during this time, I have frequently paid for sex while being in a relationship with different girlfriends and never really thought much of it. I figured it wasn't cheating since there were no emotions involved and that all interactions ended as soon as the time was up. Just some innocent fun with no strings attached. A business transaction, even. I never gave it a second thought in 15 years. But now I'm recently married and for some reason it's holding me up. On the one hand, I know that I should ideally not be paying for such services out of a higher respect for a wife compared to just a girlfriend; but on the other hand, the habit is proving to be very difficult to give up because as we all know, there's certain things these ladies do that we just can't reasonably ask of our significant others. Not to mention the endless variety, excitement of being with someone new, the girls making you feel like a man, etc. And from my previous experience of mongering while having an established girlfriend, in many ways it actually helps to make our relationship better.

So for the married men out there who still continue to seek paid company (or not), what is your take on the situation and how do you justify the action? No trolling. Looking for some serious discussion here. Opinions from those other than married men are welcome as well. Thank you in advance.

[Intransit]

http://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/...tution-fashion

It's possible that you've previously read rumors of models essentially doubling as escorts for wealthy clientele. But without specific details, it's hard to delineate what gossip has some basis in reality, and which is merely the stuff of urban legend.

Jazz Egger, a 20-year-old London-based model who has previously railed against her industry for its alleged practices, recently came forward with her claims that prostitution is widespread in the fashion game.

According to The Daily Mail, Egger says that "established models" from "big agencies" have partook in these shady operations for as much as $2 million per night. She further goes on to claim that a pair of young supermodels who are "household names" have dabbled in prostitution in order to get a jump in their career.

As for her personal experiences with these propositions, Egger says that the first offer somebody made to her came last summer at an exclusive club in London, where she was told that the "image modeling job" she was being presented with would involve a trip on a yacht in Greece with a trio of millionaires. Though she declined that getaway, she says that soon afterward a second person came up to her to invite her to have dinner with a "famous" Iranian actor, adding that she'the need to be comfortable with the "natural intimacy" that came afterward. After answering that request by saying she's a "model, not an escort," the man offering to facilitate the transaction said, "It's the most normal thing in the industry. Everyone does it. ".

Some of the text messages from this person, only known as "George," told Egger that "models realize the value of money and how much of a difference it can make. And everyone enjoys having sex, especially with good-looking guys. What is the shame? Society creates double standards that make women feel guilty. ".

While that just sounds like a grooming tactic, he also said "all of these modeling agencies are owned by hedge fund managers wanting to meet girls. ".

"This is how the fashion industry works," he added.

While it's not quite clear who "George," is, and what exactly his specific role within the industry is, Egger did add that some of her colleagues seemed to verify his take on the business.

"I know some models that have done escort work and experienced unwanted sexual advances," she said. "When I shared the article, many of my model colleagues messaged me, telling me about their experiences. It was sad to see that it's such a common and usual thing. ".

Previously, Chrissy Teigen has talked about this grimier side of the profession, saying that models have turned to having sex for lots of money.

"Did you know there are hookers in Cannes who charge $30,000 a night? She said to Du Jour Magazine in 2014. "A lot of models go there to make their side money. I'm definitely not worth $30,000. I don't really have much to offer. ".

As for Egger, who has previously been a finalist for Elite Model Look, in addition to participating in Germany's Next Top Model, she says, "There's so much wrong with this industry and I am going to do whatever it takes in order to change it. It might take centuries, but you have to start somewhere.

[Seamaster811]

As the title states, what is everyone's opinion on continuing to seek paid company after marriage?

I've been a frequent customer since I was introduced to P4 P in my college days. That was about 15 years ago. And during this time, I have frequently paid for sex while being in a relationship with different girlfriends and never really thought much of it. I figured it wasn't cheating since there were no emotions involved and that all interactions ended as soon as the time was up. Just some innocent fun with no strings attached. A business transaction, even. I never gave it a second thought in 15 years. But now I'm recently married and for some reason it's holding me up. On the one hand, I know that I should ideally not be paying for such services out of a higher respect for a wife compared to just a girlfriend; but on the other hand, the habit is proving to be very difficult to give up because as we all know, there's certain things these ladies do that we just can't reasonably ask of our significant others. Not to mention the endless variety, excitement of being with someone new, the girls making you feel like a man, etc. And from my previous experience of mongering while having an established girlfriend, in many ways it actually helps to make our relationship better.

So for the married men out there who still continue to seek paid company (or not), what is your take on the situation and how do you justify the action? No trolling. Looking for some serious discussion here. Opinions from those other than married men are welcome as well. Thank you in advance.