The Morality of Prostitution

[Newton York]

Cause I just want to say that if not for prostitution, my life would be miserable. Way, way more than it already has been and continues to be. Having sex with chicks is the only bright spot in my sad, sad existence, and since I'm too old, and have always been very ugly, getting civilian chicks to bang me has been a challenge to say the least. If it weren't for paid sex, if it weren't for pros, I would've killed myself ages ago. The next sex trip, it's all I live for now and it's all there is, and you know what? That's how it should be, cause why else does anyone do anything? People accumulate power, get wealth, all of it and then some, so that in the end, they can fucking fuck hot chicks. Morality? More like service. A very useful service provided. Prostitutes provide an incredible service, and I salute and applaud each and every one of them. Without them, loser fucks like me would never know real, sweaty, hot, nasty, awesome, gooey sex.

I too have traveled to over 20 plus countries, and have fucked chicks in them, and without p4p, it would have been damn near impossible for a guy with my face. I'm only at a few hundred chicks, but I'd be willing to fuck my way to destitution if it meant I could hit 1000. But I'm so old now, will there be enough time?

[D Cups]

Fellow Mongers,

How drab my life would be if not for P4P. Yeah there is meaningful work but let us face it: we work to get laid, and that is a much better thing than being married. After all, it is the working girl's JOB to get us off! And many of them do a great job! After almost 50-some years of horndogging I am 68 now, never married, with a body count of 650 plus or minus 25. I would say most of them are amply endowed as is my preference. Banged girls from approximately 25 countries so I consider myself quite lucky. And an equal opportunity employer, for sure <wink . Some would accuse me of being shallow or hollow without strong familial ties but from the stories I hear that road is a bumpy one, too. Anyway, counting my blessings and especially for willing women of wanton desire despite their circumstance to polish my knob one way or another. Cheers from the Cups, Merry Christmas and to the best ever in 2024! If hope to add another 40 or 50 notches.

[Bango Cheito]

When it comes to P4P, the best country is where you don't even need to deal with the law. Because consenting adults there are free to have P4P relationships with each other as they wish.

I'd rather be in Thailand or even China, than in USA, when it comes to P4P. Because it's better not to deal with any kind of accusations at all, and be free to do this by mutual consent, than having to defend yourself against the police and the government in a court of law.

True freedom is where you don't need to fear unfair accusations by the authorities and be constantly prepared to defend yourself against them. True freedom is freedom from fear and accusations. And that's what USA doesn't have in this issue, compared to some other countries.

I just heard about a guy who went to China and the first night had a girl come over for some p4 p. The next morning, police were knocking at his door. He was three months in prison there before they let him out, and people say he hasn't been the same since.

[SubCmdr]

True freedom is where you don't need to fear unfair accusations by the authorities and be constantly prepared to defend yourself against them. True freedom is freedom from fear and accusations. And that's what USA doesn't have in this issue, compared to some other countries.

I do not know how one can be free of that if you live in the (Dis) United States of America where prostitution is illegal. Unless you obey the law. I suppose that is why ISG exists. Because men want to escape the sexual prisons society and their governments impose on them. You can travel the world to seek out legal avenues for hiring prostitutes. But I bet that most cannot escape the social stigma that goes with it. I bet most keep the fact that they travel the world to hire prostitutes a secret. Only to be shared with an inner circle of people who also do it.

[Dan7373]

....

No justice system is perfect. And those with complaints about it can move to a country like China, Thailand or any other country in the world that has a Justice system that is more to their liking.

When it comes to P4P, the best country is where you don't even need to deal with the law. Because consenting adults there are free to have P4P relationships with each other as they wish.

I'd rather be in Thailand or even China, than in USA, when it comes to P4P. Because it's better not to deal with any kind of accusations at all, and be free to do this by mutual consent, than having to defend yourself against the police and the government in a court of law.

True freedom is where you don't need to fear unfair accusations by the authorities and be constantly prepared to defend yourself against them. True freedom is freedom from fear and accusations. And that's what USA doesn't have in this issue, compared to some other countries.

[SubCmdr]

Not guilty your honor

Anyone from the (Dis) United States of America has heard of the OJ Simpson Trial. Can you tell us the jury verdict on that trial?

Anyone familiar with Robert Kraft? He was charged with soliciting a prostitute. What happened to the charges?

The justice system is biased towards those who have money. They can hire the lawyers to work the system. Most of whom were successful prosecutors making chump change working for the government. Made their bones and then decided to become defense attorneys and rake in the big money.

No justice system is perfect. And those with complaints about it can move to a country like China, Thailand or any other country in the world that has a Justice system that is more to their liking.

The defense rests.

https://www.texasclarkfirm.com/blog/...-go-to-trial-/

[Dan7373]

In what criminal justice system are you speaking of? And while I am asking questions, please tell us all the role in that criminal justice system that you played?

Because I can tell you that without of a doubt in the criminal justice system of my country of origin that is not the case, in theory nor in reality. Juries are remarkably independent and prosecutors fear them. They think for themselves and look at the evidence however they chose once in deliberations. Many in my county of origin use every excuse in the world to avoid jury duty. Not me, I relished the opportunity to serve my fellow citizens in one of the most important institutions of democracy in my country of origin.

If I did not do the thing I am accused of, I want a judge to hear the evidence. If I am guilty, I want my case to be heard by a jury of my peers. Better to be judged by twelve (12) than carried by six (6)!

The politicians, the police, and the prosecutors turn public opinion against the accused, while the accused are forced to stay silent. Because anything they say can be held against them.

This is clearly an unequal playing field. And juries are known to go along with widely held public opinion.

So, the government first biases the public and then says let the public be the judge. I don't see how this can be fair or just.

There is no truth and no justice, when only one side is talking, while the other is forced to stay silent.

Because you don't know the truth, until you hear both sides. And the public is so biased, by the time the government is finished talking, that nobody wants to listen to the accused, when they are finally allowed to talk.

And the thing about the accused talking is that the media won't report what they say, the way they report sayings and words of government representatives. Few if anybody will hear the unedited version of what the accused have to say, even if they choose to talk, against the advice of their lawyers.

[SubCmdr]

Dan,

You got big balls (which are probably blue by now since you are no longer in Pattaya) making the accusations you have made in the portions of your post I will quote below. I will take them on one by one. It should be noted: I live in Pattaya.

When I was with a Thai lady in Pattaya, I asked her what was her opinion about people trying to get her and other P4P ladies out of the P4P business and get them to work on regular jobs. And she had some hostile words to say about such people. Basically, she considered regular jobs as a form of exploitation without any reasonable way out. It's a life-long exploitation. That's the way she described it. And P4P work she saw as a way out of a life-long exploitation. It's a possibility to gain financial independence by investing money in business, buying a home, buying land, and so on.

Well my brother that is quite a pivot and your moon walk is quite smooth. And that spin was so strong, that if I was tying to tackle you would have only been able to grab air. Bravo. Maybe American Politics is in your future.

The subject was consent. But now you want to talk about economic freedom and human rights. Neither of which exist except what is granted by the individual with the trigger finger on the gun. I thought you understood this by now. But, I am up for the conversation. The world is controlled by two forces: 1. Violence 2. Money.

What you need to do is read the actual Pattaya forum instead of simply referring to your memory if you want to know how things actually work in Pattaya. And since you are citing antidotal incidents can you tell me who are the: "people trying to get her and other P4P ladies out of the P4P business and get them to work on regular jobs?

Another lady in my rotation just reported that she is back in Isaan with a new house, courtesy of a customer sponsor. She's a good fuck for her age (40), and provides GFE, so it's no surprise that she conned some PLM into giving her a pension so she can live at home with her Thai husband.

Dan, why don't you find her sponsor and talk that shit to him? Here you have a guy complaining about loosing a prostitute. Makes me laugh cause in Pattaya all you have do is hire another one.

You think the sponsor of this girl was trying to get her out of being a prostitute? Here a Thai husband is not only comfortable with her being a prostitute but is also willing to share her with her sponsor when she needs to meet him when he returns. Her sponsor is paying her bills. Her sponsor is paying her more to be his personal prostitute than she could probably earn as a prostitute 26 days a month. I am not trying to get anyone to make any decision they are not interested in making. So, you ned to STFU about that shit!

Let us now review your own words:

Every workplace has its rules that workers agree to. And as long as workers are free to quit any time they want, then there is no problem with consent. They agree to abide by the rules of their workplace. And they can tear up this agreement any time they want, by quitting their employment.

Practically all workers in all occupations work in such conditions. And if you can say that these workers are free, and they give their consent, then the same applies to work in P4P.

Did you explain that while engaging in pillow talk with the prostitute you hired? Did you explain that since working a prostitute is the same as any other type of work she should be willing to work a regular job just as she is willing to work as a prostitute? After all it is called sex work. Why is it that you are so concerned with how I source my prostitutes? Is it simply because I do it in a different way than you do?

And I can tell you that I have met two prostitutes this week that have told me they are tired of freelancing. They are getting older and they need to find some other way to make money or develop a steady income. They want to become my personal prostitute and they offer me a deal that seems pretty good. Take care of my basic needs. I will "give" you all the sex you want and you can fuck anyone else you want along as you take care of me.

Had a TF chick come over the other night. Usual 1200 LT. She said she worked on a factory assembly line before the pandemic. That job sucked standing in the same spot doing the same thing for hours on end for less than 500 baht per day. Turns out she now works on Beach Road and had a lot of stories to tell.

Sex work pays better. It is simple as that. There also may be other benefits that come with it also. Why in the fuck do you think I want to have anyone quit a gig that is paying good for them? I don't!

That's why it's worthwhile to talk to P4P ladies themselves and see what they want, rather than impose your opinions and your views on them.

Sorry, Charlie. I don't spend my time talking to prostitutes. I hire them to suck my dick, take it in their pussy and ass and let me cum in one of their holes (preferably their mouth). After they have performed the services I seek, and they want to hang around then I will talk to them. But that is not my primary objective. I let them speak on what they wish to speak. You handle your prostitutes however you like.

And while we speaking on speaking how about you speak, from where you get the mother fucking idea I am trying to impose my views on anyone else.

It is my RIGHT to hire my prostitute from any source that I choose as it is yours. And that is all I have ever said. I am not comfortable with the bar model that is used in Pattaya (I think they are exploitive and I have plenty of evidence first hand from bar girls themselves) and so I don't go bars, by drinks, pay a bar fine just to hire them to be my prostitute. I go to enjoy the girls, buy them a drink (helps with their drink quota), listen to music and hang out out my friends. Exactly what is your fucking problem with that?

There are plenty of prostitutes available on Thai Friendly that are freelance, pretty, reasonable fees, and don't involve all the extra expenses.

Right now we are exchanging these posts in the "opinion" forum. I have a friend that says: "My opinion has no dominion over another grown man". I believe that. But I also can express my opinion here within the rules allowed on this forum without being accused of forcing my opinion on anyone else. A girl from Soi 6 bar is allowed to freelance on Thai Friendly. And if I find her there and we make a deal then she will have the opportunity to provide sexual services to me as my prostitute.

In fact, I can tell you (since I am actually in Pattaya writing this on the balcony of my condo with a ocean view) that I have found several girls on Thai Friendly that have asked me to come by and buy them a drink to help with their quota as part of a meet and greet before the sex actually occurred. I made it clear to them that I would not be bar fining them. They had to come see me outside of their work in the bar. Those meetings have worked out quite well for me and my Big Black Dick. I only mention this to let you know I can be both supportive of the girls and hold my principles in order. Thank you!

Speaking for these women, rather than letting them speak for themselves is a form of colonialism, when a foreigner does it. And when local people do it, then they are just a bunch of scoundrels who want to impose their opinions and views on others. It's a way of taking away people's freedom and choice. Which can be described as a modern form of enslavement.

Now you are talking. All capitalism is based on slavery! That is why I tell people I am an emancipated wage slave. For years I took my master's whip, poverty wages, discrimination and disrespect. I leaned the ways of capitalism at my masters knee. Until I built up enough knowledge and capital myself to take advantage of the "free market" system. And after I figured it out I was like a slave off the chain: I ran like a mother fucker being chased by the police and never looked back. LOL!

If you really care about people's freedom, then let these people speak and decide for themselves, rather than impose your views on them. It's wrong to impose your views on other people without their consent.

Look mother fucker, I don't care about anyone's freedom other than my own and those close to me. You nor any other mother fucker in ISG or life in general is going tell me that I cannot buy pussy how I mother fucking choose to buy pussy. I am going to hire my prostitutes in the way that I choose. You do whatever you mother fucking want to do.

Who are you to say that these women shouldn't have the freedom and the right to go with whomever they want in any arrangements they want? This is their decision and not yours or anyone else's.

I don't say this mother fucker. Show me where I have said this. I make decisions for myself. I express my own opinions. And I have spent money hiring prostitutes here in Pattaya. In my opinion, much of what you write is designed to make you feel better for the obvious guilt you must feel for doing what it is you do and how you do it. I feel fine about hiring prostitutes for sex. I even have a girl friend (one of many) that is comfortable with it.

And trying to discourage customers of such women is just an indirect way to ruin the business of these women, so that it's not worthwhile for them to do it anymore. It's a sneaky way to violate their rights and freedoms. And people, who do that, should be ashamed of themselves.

I don't do that. And if you think I do, prove it.

If you are going to violate people's rights and freedoms, then at least do it openly and honestly, rather than do it in some sneaky way, and then deny that you've done anything wrong. Doing it in a sneaky way is victimizing people twice. It's like stabbing someone in the back, while pretending to be their friend.

Oh you mother fucker. Those are fighting words. I spent a large part of my adult life placing my life on the line protecting the rights of my fellow citizens and the constitution of my country of origin. You just made yourself irrelevant in my eyes. What you are going to do is back up your accusation with some quotes that I have written during our exchanges that show I am engaging in the actions you accuse me of.

Otherwise you are just talking out the side of your mother fucking neck. A critic. I am a "man in the arena". And we all know that critics do not count.

There are pimps in Pattaya

Don't know if I reported on it, but I did have a TF chick last month that told me that was the case. Definitely did not pay her 5000. I think I arranged the usual 1200 LT. But when the girl was about to leave early is when I found this out. It seems she had no idea what our agreement was. I told her to look in her phone at our messages. Well our messages were not in her phone. She said there are several phones and it was her girlfriend that makes the arrangements then send her or other chicks. She said it is common for chicks on TF to work that way.

Have anything else to say with your brilliant intelligence and extensive knowledge of sex work in Pattaya? By the way, let me know when you are going to make your next trip. We can meet up and you can show me the ropes. As you can see I have a lot to learn.

This is my outro

I only post about Lonely Guys sponsors when the lady I am with complains about them, which is happening now. Despite her complaints, she hopes he will give her enough every month so that she can stop working bar, and go home to live with her husband.

As for cavorting with ladies with Thai boyfriends or husbands, you do it all the time, you just don't know it. The vast majority of bargirls aren't gay or asexual, they need a man to go home to. Unless they are too old, too fat, too flat chested, or too poor.

Thailand has an interesting culture. Does it not?

[The Cane]

In what criminal justice system are you speaking of? And while I am asking questions, please tell us all the role in that criminal justice system that you played?

Because I can tell you that without of a doubt in the criminal justice system of my country of origin that is not the case, in theory nor in reality. Juries are remarkably independent and prosecutors fear them. They think for themselves and look at the evidence however they chose once in deliberations. Many in my county of origin use every excuse in the world to avoid jury duty. Not me, I relished the opportunity to serve my fellow citizens in one of the most important institutions of democracy in my country of origin.

If I did not do the thing I am accused of, I want a judge to hear the evidence. If I am guilty, I want my case to be heard by a jury of my peers. Better to be judged by twelve (12) than carried by six (6)!

This is often how it is in the United States in the "Court of Public Opinion", which may be what he was referring to. Luckily, or more accurately as a matter of law, it's not that court which gets to determine our fate in the United States, where the law holds you innocent until proven guilty. Thank God!

[SubCmdr]

Being accused is the same as being found guilty.

In what criminal justice system are you speaking of? And while I am asking questions, please tell us all the role in that criminal justice system that you played?

Because I can tell you that without of a doubt in the criminal justice system of my country of origin that is not the case, in theory nor in reality. Juries are remarkably independent and prosecutors fear them. They think for themselves and look at the evidence however they chose once in deliberations. Many in my county of origin use every excuse in the world to avoid jury duty. Not me, I relished the opportunity to serve my fellow citizens in one of the most important institutions of democracy in my country of origin.

If I did not do the thing I am accused of, I want a judge to hear the evidence. If I am guilty, I want my case to be heard by a jury of my peers. Better to be judged by twelve (12) than carried by six (6)!

[SubCmdr]

Is it moral to impose your moral values on others by force, without the agreement of others?

This is the question that has been missing in discussions of morality throughout human history, and even now.

Human history is full of examples where crusaders, missionaries, and religious or political fanatics destroyed whole cultures and ways of life to impose their values on others by force.

For a lot of westerners, it doesn't sound too bad that western Christians destroyed the cultures and ways of life among the native inhabitants of North and South America. Because Christian values were and to some extent still are western values.

But Muslims did something similar in the Middle East earlier in human history. And muslim values of modesty and strict control of women's sexual behavior still upset many westerners. Because these muslim values are neither christian nor western values.

So, it might feel okay to impose your values on others. But when others impose their values on you, then that's obviously not okay.

This is a double standard in the thinking of people who believe that their values should be universal values. They are okay with imposing their values on others, but they are outraged when others, with different values, impose their values on them.

Can morality be moral, when it's imposed by force, without the agreement of others?

This is the question that needs to be asked and answered in any debate about the morality of prostitution.

Because nowadays, many moral opponents of prostitution routinely use force and coercion to put and end to it. Or they do it in some sneaky way, where they attack the customers of women to take away their P4P business and force them to abandon prostitution that way.

I think the use of force against consenting relationships and people is immoral in itself. And any morality imposed on others this way is automatically immoral. Because this is like trying to achieve good by evil means and doing a lot of evil in the process.

Moral values should be universal only by consent and not by force. Because when force is used against consenting relationships and people, then it's no longer about who is right and who is wrong. It's about who is stronger and who is weaker. Might is right. That's what imposing morality by force amounts to. Which is immoral and wrong.

This kind of morality is immoral. Because this is doing to others that which you wouldn't want to be done to yourself.

If you don't want others to impose their values on you, then don't do this to others. Or else you have a double standard of morality that makes your morality immoral.

My ISG Brother, your post is a straight stand at the plate and watch walk off grand slam. I applaud you my brother.

[Dan7373]

Yes, and today I noticed since yesterday the article has undergone some censorship. The original version had mentioned that some detained sex workers were supporting their families. That part has now been deleted, otherwise god forbid the readers might think sex work is just work without stigmatization. No, we don't want that!

Quote: "human trafficking operation. " End quote.

Perfectly laid out opening line of the article. Who would doubt that?

Quote: "out of 119 prostitutes who were arrested during the operation that began last week, 21 were possible victims of human trafficking. " End quote.

Wow, this is a whopping 10%. Only a suspicion, but who cares?

Quote: A pimp "told detectives he had "several females that he worked," or who paid him to transport them and keep them safe. " End quote.

The article, of course, doesn't tell the truth that illegal sex work drives sex trade underground, forcing women to work for stomach-turning pimps.

Quote: "83 suspects were arrested for soliciting prostitution. " End quote.

83 innocent people who's crime was simply a desire to have sex, which is imbedded in humans by evolution.

Quote: "The valuable relationships that we have with the social services organizations who join us in these operations make it possible for these women to get help and be emancipated from this way of life. " End quote.

Wow, what a breath-taking bravura-heresy, while organizations like Amnesty International and WHO advocate for full legalization and decriminalization of sex work. And the whole "emancipated from this way of life" stupidity is a clear demonstration of moral concerns prevailing over safety and health of sex workers.

Quote: "Rogers is an athletic director at Vanguard School and a teacher at Auburndale High School REAL Academy. " "This dude now is coaching in the county jail," Judd said. "I can't believe we want somebody like this around our children. ". "Rogers, according to the district, was hired in April 2013, and worked for Real Academy since 2017. Polk County Public Schools told the station it is moving forward with the process of terminating Rogers' employment with the district. ". End quote.

Obviously, this man could just cannibalize people around him, super dangerous individual. Thank god his life is ruined and the world is safe again.

Quote: "Rogers is married with three children. " End quote.

Aha, wonderful! Now the childhood of his children is also ruined, just like well known "war on drugs" had ruined not only lives of thousands of men, but also their families. Excellent approach.

Quote: "three suspects were Disney employees. " End quote.

By definition, Disney employees can only be sexless, ambisexual, or neuter. Or robots.

Every country has its advantages and disadvantages. I'm just glad that USA doesn't control the world so much that they impose the same rules and the same conditions on everybody else. There are other countries, where people are more free regarding this issue.

When you have a diverse world, where local people decide how they want to live, then you have a choice where to go and where to enjoy the kind of freedom you want.

In the past, western countries have colonized much of the world and destroyed many cultures. They destroyed human cultural diversity and tried to make everybody like themselves. And we still have remnants of such western behavior even now. They are still trying to 'civilize' the rest of the world and make everybody like the people in the West.

I just hope that this doesn't happen again. I'd rather have a diverse world, than a world re-made in the image of USA.

[Smoke Light]

Being accused is the same as being found guilty. Because the authorities talk all the want, while the other side is forced to stay silent. It's a form of modern lynching disguised as law and order.

Yes, and today I noticed since yesterday the article has undergone some censorship. The original version had mentioned that some detained sex workers were supporting their families. That part has now been deleted, otherwise god forbid the readers might think sex work is just work without stigmatization. No, we don't want that!

Quote: "human trafficking operation. " End quote.

Perfectly laid out opening line of the article. Who would doubt that?

Quote: "out of 119 prostitutes who were arrested during the operation that began last week, 21 were possible victims of human trafficking. " End quote.

Wow, this is a whopping 10%. Only a suspicion, but who cares?

Quote: A pimp "told detectives he had "several females that he worked," or who paid him to transport them and keep them safe. " End quote.

The article, of course, doesn't tell the truth that illegal sex work drives sex trade underground, forcing women to work for stomach-turning pimps.

Quote: "83 suspects were arrested for soliciting prostitution. " End quote.

83 innocent people who's crime was simply a desire to have sex, which is imbedded in humans by evolution.

Quote: "The valuable relationships that we have with the social services organizations who join us in these operations make it possible for these women to get help and be emancipated from this way of life. " End quote.

Wow, what a breath-taking bravura-heresy, while organizations like Amnesty International and WHO advocate for full legalization and decriminalization of sex work. And the whole "emancipated from this way of life" stupidity is a clear demonstration of moral concerns prevailing over safety and health of sex workers.

Quote: "Rogers is an athletic director at Vanguard School and a teacher at Auburndale High School REAL Academy. " "This dude now is coaching in the county jail," Judd said. "I can't believe we want somebody like this around our children. ". "Rogers, according to the district, was hired in April 2013, and worked for Real Academy since 2017. Polk County Public Schools told the station it is moving forward with the process of terminating Rogers' employment with the district. ". End quote.

Obviously, this man could just cannibalize people around him, super dangerous individual. Thank god his life is ruined and the world is safe again.

Quote: "Rogers is married with three children. " End quote.

Aha, wonderful! Now the childhood of his children is also ruined, just like well known "war on drugs" had ruined not only lives of thousands of men, but also their families. Excellent approach.

Quote: "three suspects were Disney employees. " End quote.

By definition, Disney employees can only be sexless, ambisexual, or neuter. Or robots.

[Dan7373]

Fox News: Florida teacher, Disney employees among 219 arrested in human trafficking operation.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-t...on-authorities

There is a saying, "You don't know the truth, until you hear both sides."

In this case, only one side is talking. And that's how it usually is in such cases. The authorities throw around all kinds of accusations, while the other side is handcuffed, gagged, and threatened with biased juries and judges.

First, the authorities and the media bias the community against the accused. And then the accused don't get a fair trial.

Being accused is the same as being found guilty. Because the authorities talk all the want, while the other side is forced to stay silent. It's a form of modern lynching disguised as law and order.

[Smoke Light]

Fox News: Florida teacher, Disney employees among 219 arrested in human trafficking operation.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/florida-t...on-authorities