The Morality of Prostitution

[Rubber Nursey]

Hiya gorgeous boys!! Long time no see!

Sorry I haven't been around. I have been swamped at work and I've had to move house and my ISP has been giving me grief and my dog ate my homework. Ok, so I don't go to school and I don't have a dog...but the rest of the excuses are bona fide.

Anyway, thanks for worrying about me. (And for the ego boost when I found out I was being missed! haha) I didn't get your email until tonight Phillip, so I hope you didn't think I was ignoring you. Thanks for your concern honey.
And while I'm thanking people, thank you for the kind words Carl LaFong....I hope you will join us again some time soon. I looked up the book that you mentioned, and I am going to see if is available here. It looks like an interesting read.

Soooo what's the topic of the minute? Seems there has been a bit of a thing about cleaning up Nashville...which I don't want to get involved in 'coz I have a tendency to get aggressive around self-righteous zealots...
And the revelations that Joe is a giant and Phillip is "vertically challenged"? Nope, not gonna touch that either! lol

So what's on your minds guys?

[Fedup]

It seems we all disappeared at the same time... I'd said most of my thoughts du jour and I think others had too. The change to the new forum was a bit of a interuption too.

The "American Women" forum took a rather odd twist for the worst too... nothing but fat talk.

Here's a story that should get you all going... I only live one county away from these goons:

"The year is 1921... people's minds are closed tighter than a gnat's ass..."

Oh shit!... hold on a minute... the year is 2002!!!

http://www.baynews9.com/newsstory.asp?storyname=2002/June/1/porn

Not exactly prostitution... but I'm sure you can figure out how they feel about that too.

Everyone get out their flag and stick it to their car please.

[Philip Augustus]

to joe:
i mailed her with a brief note asking if she's ok, haven't heard back. funny thing, dickhead and terry also disappeared at the same time, i was wondering where the party was......

really? then i must spend all my life on the net, mustn't i, get the respect that doesn't accrue in rl to a speed bump ;-)

[Joe Zop]

Haven't heard anything from RN at all -- are you listening, o muse of the thread -- but I've been swamped with work of late and have only been checking in briefly until I get caught up, hence the silence.

No, actually, it was your stunning revelation that drove me away -- I was certain from reading your posts that you were a seven-footer :-) and I'm still processing the damage to my world view...

[Philip Augustus]

Hi, Joe, long time no see, and do you know if RN's OK?

I'll second you on asking Carl LaFong (thanks for kind words) to give us a precis of Nussbaum. I don't think there's too much surprise in her getting hit from both "sides", though, inasmuch as PC is in many respects a re-run of Victorian "earnestness" and prudery. Where I live, the feminazis often get together with the religious right to picket brothels; if you want to spoil the love-feast, say the A Word....... ;-)

[Joe Zop]

Amen, neo.

Carl, thanks, and can you tell us a bit about Nussbaum's book? Sound like a very interesting read, and one I'll need to look for, as I tend to agree that someone who's getting it from both directions probably has something intruguing to say...

[neo]

better prostitution in a controlled and designated environ where the provider is there of her own free will and not being abused
as for people in a relationship , it is purely a personal choice that each person will have to make. As long as no one gets hurt and everyone gets what they want. Like the song goes "there are worse things I could do...."

[Carl LaFong]

i am delighted to see such a thoughtful discussion taking place here (i mention rn and joe and augustus specifically). this is the first time for me to peek into this section and it is refreshing to find frank, intellectual analysis of sex work. outstanding.

martha nussbaum, a professor of classics and law at the univ. of chicago, has written what i feel is an excellent discussion that touches upon some of the issues discussed here. the book is "sex and social justice" and is a great read (i think it's an oxford univ. press imprint). i've heard her taking hits from both the left and right so i figure she must be doing something right.

anyhow, i just wanted to express my appreciation to all the posters who have contributed to this part of the site.

carl lafong

--
"we call contrary to nature what happens contrary to custom; nothing is anything but according to nature, whatever it may be. let this universal and natural reason drive out of us the error and astonishment that novelty brings us."
michel de montaigne

[NoFatso]

Nashville.

They so happy that Nashville has been "cleaned up". Reality is, many folks in the church, including the guy on the pulpit, are regular patrons. Ask the girls. Most of these moralists are major hobbyists. Also, let's hope the cops still find time to catch the real criminals, after all, they are too busy keeping an eye on the scene and attempting to close down the joints before they even open up.

[Paddy]

Hey Nashville,

I doubt that the mayor and the guys who work in his administration are too thrilled about all of the parlours being closed down. I mean, they'll have to drive to the next county now for sex.

Many thanks to all of the righteous crusaders at that church of yours for saving their wretched souls from eternal damnation. "Thou shalt close down all brothels.' Which commandment was that again??? Next time you hang out with God please ask him.

[Dickhead]

If you think prostitution is immoral, Nashville or Video Vigilante or Lazarus or Rev. Taylor or whoever you are, then don't fuck them.

To all prostitutes in Nashville: Paraphrasing John Babsone Lane Soule, "Go west, young woman."

This quote is sometimes improperly attributed to Horace Greeley.

[Prokofiev]

Guess I better cancel that Nashville trip . . .

[Sinanju Master]

Sounds like Nashville was a theocratic gov't official in Kabul in the mid 1990's with unlimited powers to be used at hs discretion and answerable to NO ONE. What will Nashville (the poster and the city) do next? Invade people's homes at all hours of the night to make sure that they (willing, consenting adults who can think for THEMSELVES) are not engaging in unGodly sexual practices? Nashville=Taliban=Spanish Inquisition=Thought Police. The very thought that this wacko who hides his metaphorical turban from the public in an attempt to "protect" us, has the audacity to speak for ALL of us makes me shiver.

[NoFatso]

What morality? I am a single guy, no girlfriend and wouldn't want one. I like pretty women and sex. If a pretty woman wants to have sex with me for $ and if she is attractive enough and provides GFE, I pay her to have a good time. It is no different from going to have dinner in a gourmet restaurant. I don't think anyone go through a morality discussion before walking into a restaurant.

I can't comment on situation where you are a married man or in a committed relationship. I believe in those circumstances, as long as there is an understanding between you and your spouse or g/f, then all is fine. If not, then it is an issue of loyalty between you and your spouse, not an issue of morality although you can argue loyalty is part of morality. If you accept your g/f or wife to have sex with any guys she likes outside you, then, that's fine too. As a single guy not in any relationship I have no experience to comment on this.

[Philip Augustus]

to joe:
oh wow, now you’ve smoked me out. shortarses of the world unite, everyone over 5’ 10” up against the wall when the revolution comes! ;-) you are so right, you get a more respectful hearing than i do before we open our mouths, and for long afterwards (not that you wouldn’t deserve it, you’re a bad example of the syndrome, being tall, smart and wise, but you know what i mean). “the economist” ran a big survey of the effects of being a small male, and found some surprising correlations, like promotion, pay, health and longevity. sex-life goes without saying. they concluded by saying, “and what is the good news for short men? answer: there isn’t any.” to bring it back on-topic: as a small guy i feel empowered when with a sex worker, because i possess the currencies in which she is interested. if she, like the civilians, considers me “not really a man”, then it is part of her profession not to say so.

i guess that clients and sex workers have a natural alliance against the stigmatisation of the profession and its participants. certainly many of my conversations end up here, with us singing a duet against society. (in aforementioned country, by the way, the cops don’t impound cars, but the feminazis sometimes stencil them “wh*re-customer”. in countries where the ruling ideology is catholicism rather than political correctness, there may also be a duet, but in a different key, this time more defending the dignity of the worker.)

as regards segregation, i’ve seen the whole gamut between prevention of customers ever seeing one another and a sauna where they hang out together, e.g. the famous london street in edinburgh. the segregationists obviously have to go for the line-up, which both rn and i detest, while the collegials can have a lounge, bar and so forth. however, these segregationalists are in jurisdictions where it’s legal, so the main motive is, i think, to protect the reputation of the mayor and the archbishop ;-)

good point about lumping “criminals” together. i certainly wouldn’t take well to being locked up with muggers and gangsters. hey, i’m a _white-collar_ scumbag!

i also liked the sartrean point about choosing to be an object, but this line is way over the heads of the kinds of feminists who harass clients by direct action, and the female pols and journos who press for imprisonment of clients. i think it’s something else entirely: since women putatively don’t pay for sex, criminalisation means that they can hate, stigmatise and persecute men with a light heart and without much risk that the law will backfire by sanctioning a _woman_ for her sexual behaviour (gasp!).

the three categories: much as i have to blame my parents for, i think it was far more a function of the peer-group and the opposite sex. there is a general feeling that unattractive people are not entitled to any kind of sexual desires. being looked at (shades of sartre again) by an ugly guy or a dork is a serious offence, even when the woman is at the same time revealing as much as she can to the hunks. ocular harassment simply means the attention she seeks but from a guy she doesn’t fancy. furthermore, we are a hierarchical, mobbing species, and the unattractive are not left to discover failure on their own, it is predicted for them, they are firmly informed of their place in the scheme of things. i was regularly told that no woman would look at me, and this proved pretty well correct. i wouldn’t say this caused self-loathing qua customer, though; au contraire. you could say that my punting is afflicted by societal (pc) stigmatisation but is a rational response to a different kind of stigmatisation. make any sense?