The Morality of Prostitution

[Cunning 1]

Sasha,

I love your comments:

"Sexually do I believe that men can be faithful, no I don't. Do I believe woman can be faithful, no not that either"

and the way it differentiates between a human need (and one of my favourites) and :

"I don't think fidelity is important in a relationship I think commitment, honesty and common goals are"

That is the way my life has developed and I am sure a lot of people would consider it hypocritical, but why would partners want to lose a loving committed relationship because one partner had a quick night with a WG?

When we're old and grey it will matter not. You can take all those memories to your grave and hope that at the Pearly Gates the gatekeeper has been a monger during his or her life.

C1

[Sasha Coffee]

I'm not sure really Alex. I don't think it makes me anymore aware of whether someone is trustworthy or not. I'm a softie and tend to believe everyone until they prove otherwise.

As for trusting men, to say yes or no would be making a sweeping judgement. I think that I trust certain people in situations and other people in other situations.

Sexually do I believe that men can be faithful, no I don't. Do I believe woman can be faithful, no not that either. Both sexes were put on earth to populate it. Marriage and monogamy were designed by the church to keep the masses under control. Much like welfare in modern times.

I don't think fidelity is important in a relationship I think commitment, honesty and common goals are.

[Alex Rock]

Remember WG have spent alot of time with men and have an uncanny knack to see when you start having doubts and their intuitition will always tell them.

I guess I hadn't realised that. Does it mean you would find it easier or harder to trust guys? Or easier to see if a guy is trustworthy?

[Alex Rock]

I had heard about this book but not seen it. It seems to be popular among wg's.

[Alex Rock]

Trust seems to be difficult or impossible to recover once it's been lost. China Lily asked me why I couldn't go back with my previous wg girlfriend after I found out what she did and after she'd opened up to me. It's simple the trust had been broken and memories of the pain would sudenly spring back.

That's why I trust the wg gf I now spend considerable time with. She's so transparent, honest and accepting of all the things women don't seem to like about guys. She's great fun to be with. She doesn't blink if I date other girls but for some reason she says she feels bad if I tell her I kissed someone on the lips!!

[China Lily]

She wont think about customers. Once I stopped work and married. I loved my husband for the half year I was with him and half year I come back to China for my visa. When I was with him I was very happy and never thought about any customers. He always wanted sex in the morning, the same position every time. It was not special sex but I always feel good even if I wanted another position. My work was never in my head.

After he dumped me for a Brazil girl, I went back to my escort work and in one day it was like I never stopped. I wear my old mask and become the escort girl. I think your ex wg girlfriend will be the same. She knows what she wants. She is more lucky than me because she can tell you everything so she has no secret. It will make her feel good that she can be honest and feel free with you.

When I found a new boyfriend. I was crazy about him but didnt tell him my work. Sex with him was different from customers. When I am with him, I take my mask off and I feel safe and warm. He would do sex the way I like it. If you do it the way she likes she will be happy and not think about customers.

My mistake was I lied to my boyfriend, so after he knew about my work he wont trust me any more.

Your girlfriend is lucky she tells you everything because it makes her feel clean inside her head with you. She is not guilty in her head. I think you are lucky a girl can be honest with you. Working girls make good wife because they know men very well.

It is not easy to feel good trust and free with somebody. Tell her what you think and what you worry about so she feels safe with you.

Some girls are afraid that one day they are with their husband and meet an old customer. I think you ask her now what you both do if it happens one day so you will both be ok.

You shouldnt ask her to throw her phone numbers away, but when she does you can feel safer and be happy with her.

[Petercal]

A couple of points:

Those are VERY wise words! I agree with them 100%. I have met many women, mostly American, who claim vows of love with a man and in the next breath say they don't trust him. Now, I could care less about love. I need a woman to TRUST me!

Love can mean so many things to so many different people. You and Bango Cheito are wise point to single out trust as the important element. However, I wonder how often trust is freely given instead of earned.

Life is short and if you find someone that makes you happy grab it. It doesn't happen to many people all that often.

If you love the girl go get her, or you might miss out.

Stop second guessing and just do. To overthink a situation will only show you more and more negatives.

Exactly. My regret over missed opportunities haunted me for a long time. At least it did until I realized I should turn my head around to look at the road ahead. I found that I have been much happier by keeping an open mind and a positive attitude.

I laugh you think I am a man. You can read Chinese book <Give me a cigarette> by Bian Dashu who work as a KTV escort. <给我一支烟> 变大树. Her book will show you how we feel and think. Girls in China read the book a lot and after you read you will know our life. We are normal girls, we can like sex, we can love people and we can be scared when we work and we can be lonely.

I laugh you think I am a man. After the book maybe you think Bian Dashu is a man too. Haha

I'm just curious if anyone here read this novel (attached below; this version is missing a few chapters, but they can be found elsewhere on the web). I can see why it would be popular, though I wonder if it is art imitating life or the other way around. The characters, except Xiao Liu (肖琳), are very human, possessing base frailties likes jealousy, vanity, and pride that tear apart relationships. After reading this book, I don't think Bian Dashu is a man; I think she's just human.

[George90]

Bottom line is, you have to trust in order to love. You can't have love without trust. If she says you're the man, you're the man. If you want the relationship to work you have to bring yourself to believe her and trust her.

Those are VERY wise words! I agree with them 100%. I have met many women, mostly American, who claim vows of love with a man and in the next breath say they don't trust him. Now, I could care less about love. I need a woman to TRUST me!

[Sasha Coffee]

To answer your question.

For me I don't see any difference between sex with a client and sex with a partner. But thats just me, I think that we all take something from every sexual experience and use it in another sexual experience, some things we learn are good and some things are bad.

Perhaps what you're really trying to find out is can you satisfy her. Well thats something that you need to decide for yourself. Personally I think that your main problem is your confidence in your sexual ability.

For your girlfriend I doubt she would be with you at all if she thought you were a bad shag. As a WG she will have had some terrible ones and trust me when I say WG are very shallow when it comes to bad sex from their boyfriend. Its just not acceptable. So stop beating yourself up about whether she finds you boring in bed and whether she can be faithful. Its the same risk with a girl who hasn't been a WG.

Life is short and if you find someone that makes you happy grab it. It doesn't happen to many people all that often. So what she used to be a WG, at least you know if you loose your job your not going to starve. WG are a valuable asset in any relationship they can always make an income whatever circumstances you find yourself in.

Sorry not trying to make light of your situation just maybe open your eyes to possibilities and situations.

If you love the girl go get her, or you might miss out. Remember WG have spent alot of time with men and have an uncanny knack to see when you start having doubts and their intuitition will always tell them. Stop second guessing and just do. To overthink a situation will only show you more and more negatives.

[Bango Cheito]

Bottom line is, you have to trust in order to love. You can't have love without trust. If she says you're the man, you're the man. If you want the relationship to work you have to bring yourself to believe her and trust her.

[Alex Rock]

Sorry to labour this question. I am hovering between choosing an ex wg as a life partner or looking for a “regular” girl as a partner.

After being devastated to find my previous gf was a wg and going through months of psychological hell before I could understand that sex work is a job and that many of my previous mindsets were based on traditional male perceptions I am faced with some new dilemmas.

I could not stay with my gf after I found out her work was a “high class” escort serving clients almost every day. Even after she came clean and opened up, I felt betrayed and cuckolded. (As Chinese say to “wear a green hat”).

After I “played” with several girls, I got close to some other wg’s as friends, one or two as very close friends, now one is seriously a potential life partner.

She is totally honest with me about everything. Anything I ask she answers without hesitation. It makes me trust her. In fact I trust her completely because she will tell me anything I ask and I can say anything to her. When we sent to Thailand for a holiday, she had fun coming with me to a bathhouse and wanted to watch a girl give me full service.

This is my dilemma.

She says she will be sexually faithful. She'd had sex with over a thousand guys but says it was all business. Sometimes she had fun and could have orgasms. Often she was catering to their desires and she’d “dress to please” or role play. Now, she says she has no interest in sex with anyone else again. She also says she doesn’t care if I want sex with other women AS LONG AS I SHARE IT WITH HER. She says “All men” need to screw around, so she accepts it and as long as I don’t do anything behind her back, she will accept it, and maybe even enjoy sharing it and joining in.

My problems are that she has had sex with so many guys; maybe she thinks sex with me isn’t special. Maybe other guys were better or bigger or lasted longer or made her come more. Maybe she compares me to some super studs ?!?!?!? Maybe I'm too "ordinary".

Intellectually I’m OK with it, emotionally I’m in a dilemma.

Can you working girls help me? If you settle down with one guy, do you think about sex with super studs ?. How do you look at your mate who might not be so adventurous or skilled sexually as other guys you have had.?

Rubber Nursey, you’ve talked about your partner; saying you would like group sex but he’s happy with ordinary “normal sex” and doesn’t want to experiment. Do you fantasize for the kind of sex you had with other guys? Do you feel unfulfilled sexually with a guy who likes less “active” sex? Would this be a potential problem some day?

My question is: “If I decide to settle with the ex wg as a life partner, should I worry that for her, sex with me is not special”????? Should I worry that after months or years with one guy, who doesn’t do all the stuff she used to do, that she may crave for “wilder” or more “aggressive” sex??

As wg’s, what advice would you give to a guy considering settling down with an ex wg?? Are there things I need to ask her or to deal with?

If you were about to settle down with a guy, what would you want? How could you address a typical guy’s emotional concerns and confidence issues settling with an ex wg as a life partner?? How could you make yourselves feel confident it would be good for both of you long term?

Are there any issues wg's would be concerned about with their guys? Would you be worried your guys couldn't handle it?

Alex

[Alex Rock]

A personal relationship with a WG is exactly the same as with any other girl. If the WG is honest about her work takes her money for a service and still looks after her man, it is no different than her going to work at Walmart or in the boardroom. The trick with a working girl is if you're going to shag someone else let her know, she will handle it, we understand the difference between a shag and having sex with your partner. All men need to spread it round a bit and if the truth be told so will women given the opportunity.

If you're dating a WG and you want to shag another WG make sure you pay for it, and don't use your WG girlfriends money to do it with (thats the ultimate in disrespect) and don't shag another WG that your girlfriend doesn't like.

Sasha, You put it so eloquently !! Well said

[Petercal]

Most guys dont want their girlfriend to do this job but they dont give them enough money to live. If you see Chochets story, only after Meow died of drugs he is sorry.

If a guy loves a sex worker girl it is very easy for him to take her away to a new life. Most will be a good wife.

I don't think that's fair to say about all the guys. My love/infatuation (see my other long post) once said to me that "it's in a xiao jie's job description to lie for money" (-sarcasm mode on- of course, she would never do that to me -sarcasm mode off-). A guy may not trust that the girl truly has feelings for him. Thus, he may be reluctant to support her without a visible sign of commitment, like quiting the WG job that bothers him. On the other hand, from the girl's perspective, it is exactly as you described. This chicken/egg problem cannot be resolved without one side taking that initial leap. Trust can then develop if the other side can recognize how difficult it is to make that blind leap.

The problem is, unless you understand how the other side thinks, it may be hard to recognize how difficult it is for the other person to make that blind leap (at least recognize it in time to cherish it meaningfully). I understand what you're saying, but I think there is something not said about balancing the perspectives.

[Petercal]

It is a sad story. It happens a lot for girls that don't know what they want. She wants a guy to love her, he wants her but he doesn't take her away from her job.

He doesnt like her work but he doesn't help her away from it.

Guys want sex worker girls to be their girlfriend but dont give enough money so the girl stays doing the same job. Why dont they take the girl away? That is what Meow wants.

Lots of foreign guys want a girl to be their girlfriend and stop working but they dont give the girl any money to live. The girl wants to stop work but cant if she doesnt have enough money to pay her apartment. They dont give up their wife so what the girl should do?

It is easy to tell other people but not easy to do it yourself. I lose my boyfriend because I don't stop working. Next time I know what to do.

Chochet Meow story is sad. It tells if a guy want a sex worker girl, give her chance and take her away. If the girls wants a new life she should make risk.

The Chochet & Meow story illustrated the influence of fate on a relationship with a WG. There were things between the lines that suggest that the guy wasn't able to take the girl away (he didn't have enough money) and that the girl wasn't able to chose love over duty (she didn't choose her family; she was just saddled with them). Circumstances beyond their control ultimately wore them out. That's why this story was so tragic to me.

I tend to believe fate is a bigger influence than what much of this discussion have alluded to. I can see how someone's emphasis may be on individual free will and the belief of his/her choice making a difference. That may be true for some people, especially if they have the ample financial means. For others in more tricky situations, well, perhaps such relationships are not meant to be.

OK, that was a bit obtuse. I like to explain my situation to shed more light, but this may diverge a bit from the topic of discussion so far:

I fell in love (OK, that may be premature; perhaps infatuated is more appropriate) with a Macau sauna girl. Long story short, after a week I paid off her debt to her agent so she could choose to leave Macau (no strings attached; seriously, I did not ask her to leave even though I wanted her to). Of course, this didn't resolve the root cause of why she was in Macau in the first place so I promised her a large sum of money (I understand the need to be realistic at this point; she may or may not have feelings for me, but feelings alone will not feed her & her family). I gave her about US$12K in the last month or so. I'll likely double that by spring. Back in the Sichuan countryside that should be enough for some time.

I admit that I had bad images going through my head while she was working (especially some of things she was asked to do or else be fined). Maybe that's why it didn't seem so hard for me to come up with the money. On the other hand, I was a bit repulsed by the idea that she'll see this money as going to "keep" her (I keep thinking of the story she told me about the 58-year-old guy that wanted her as a mistress when she was 17; for the record, I'm single 36 y.o. & she's 20 y.o.). So we agreed that I'll give her enough to start her own business & that's the end of my financial support (I know, but it's too early to talk about marriage).

I guess that this arrangement required that I'm mentally prepared to writeoff the entirety of what I give her. Problem is, my brain can accept this, but I don't know about my heart. So far, what has motivated me to do all of this is my heart, not my brain. I can calm my heart so far by accepting this whole relationship as fate-driven (we have "yuan2" but we don't know about "fen4")
. This brings me back to my original point about recognizing that perhaps success in a relationship with a WG is more governed by fate than anything else (at least I keep telling myself that because I feel so powerless, oh well).

To avoid cluttering up this board, you can PM me for more details.

[Bango Cheito]

Everybody has a different tipping point, and different buttons that can be (sometimes inadvertently) pushed. Think of the famous union between Diego Rivera and Frida Kahlo. They supposedly had an open relationship but she thought he went too far when he banged her own sister. Then HE thought SHE went too far when she banged Trotsky.