The Morality of Prostitution

[Golfinho]

No dude. The National Socialists were idiots, killing off the BEST of their society instead of the worst.

You were referencing physical appearance, idealized beauty, ideals from classical Greece: "it's because by and large people are more physically ATTRACTIVE". This was what invited the comparison to the NSDAP program of promoting physical appearance and body culture. The best of their society were killed off on the Eastern front. Yes, that was idiotic.

[Hasideas Tao]

I find words usually screw people up. I think thats one of the reasons I love Colombia. I have so few words to work with so I speak directly. Consequently, I get more of what I want and less of what I don't.

So instead of calling sex magical like Disney, I propose to call it "Sticky!" or some non discript phrase like that. Because even when its bad its still kinda good. Joke: how is sex like air? Both are no big deal unless your not getting any." Even in examples of bad sex, for some reason, the memory can still stick with you. Why is that? I can recall some mediocre to terrible experiences with great detail. And also some amazing experiences with great detail. Point is, sex often provides kind of an awake moment. When fucking, you tend to be "right here right now" or an even simpler analogy, on a momentary vacation from the rest of your life. So you tend to remember that shit. It could also have effects like a drug.

Just my two cents.

[Bango Cheito]

Then you'd also appreciate a similar aesthetic that was in play in Germany around say 1933-1945, where such offenses as you mention were sometimes even worth the death penalty.

No dude. The National Socialists were idiots, killing off the BEST of their society instead of the worst. They had the criteria all wrong.

Dickhead, definitely some sex is better than others. But it's always still magical. Kinda like pizza.

[Dickhead]

To say that "all sex has a magical element" strikes me as somewhere between a bit of a stretch and a complete crock. Let me give you a recent example. Last week I went to my favorite privado in Buenos Aires and tried a new provider / performer / woman / ho or whatever is the appropriate noun. A perfectly nice woman, decent looking, far younger than I am, from Paraguay. Absolutely unresponsive, turned her head away from kissing, told me no BBBJ even though that is the specialty of this particular privado. I said,"Fine; use a condom then." She put on the condom, bobbed her head up and down rapidly and ineptly, and I pretended she was someone else doing something else and came as fast as I could. I had broken one of my one rules, which is to take a half hour session the first time with a new person, but even though there were at least 40 minutes left, as soon as I came, I threw the condom in the trash, put my clothes on, and left without a word.

So find the magic in that! I have had many, many magical sex sessions, both with hookers and otherwise, and many, many completely meaningless physical releases, both with hookers and otherwise. In particular there is no magic in having sex with a Dominicana and listening to her say "¿Terminaste? ¿Terminaste? ¿Terminaste?" every five seconds, beginning ten seconds into the session.

Sometimes sex is less like magic and more like taking a much needed shit. But then I've been living as an ex-pat in Latin America a hell of a lot longer than three years.

[Snake27]

Au contraire, if you look closely at the animal kingdom you will see irrefutably that sex is in fact NOT just about procreation, it's about a great many things in fact. ALL sex has a "magical" element to it.

We don't really have a disagreement. I never said that sex was "just about procreation", I said that life was, at it's core, a copying operation and sex was a prevalent mechanism, and this had some simple implications on human sexual activity. Well, see the original post. And I cannot disagree about the "magical" element you mentioned because I don't understand it. Sorry. Whenever I see the word "magic" my brain turns off. I did, however, google "sex magic" as you suggested. I see a lot of phrases like "through sexual magic one can eliminate any previously comprehended psychological defect", which I cannot decipher, but maybe it means that "magic" is an undefinable superpower which allows wonderful things like teleportation to another world (an example for which there's no evidence). I have a hard time dealing with undefined terminology, or with things for which I see no evidence. Too loose for me. Therefore, no disagreement.

[Golfinho]

Living as an expat in Colombia for 3 years has majorly opened my eyes to human nature. I'm also beginning to realize how awesome the ancient Greeks were with their aesthetics, and how RIGHT they were. I was quite the little relativist for awhile, but have come around to realize there are actually many absolutes in the universe. Being fat in ancient Greece was considered such an offense to society, it was sometimes even worth the death penalty!

Then you'd also appreciate a similar aesthetic that was in play in Germany around say 1933-1945, where such offenses as you mention were sometimes even worth the death penalty.

[Bango Cheito]

I agree with you somewhat, and appreciate the thoughtful reply. I still claim that life is a copying operation and sex is the favored mechanism. What is the "sex magic" of the flatworm, the amoeba, or the common cockroach? I believe the vast majority (99+ %) of species use sex to procreate, and we normally don't ascribe magic to their actions. Leave it to humans to wrap a simple idea with mumbo jumbo (that was not meant as a put-down, but rather a general observation).

I think that cultural and social pressure arises in an arbitrary way but has to be consistent with instinct. You're right, a lot of women drool over attractive men; I was only arguing that there was a tendency for them to be, on the average, more circumspect because of the asymmetry in energy required. But it's just an idea to consider, and I should have admitted that it was not entirely original, though I have embellished it. And it's just another perspective on the problem of morality, which I didn't see considered here yet.

Au contraire, if you look closely at the animal kingdom you will see irrefutably that sex is in fact NOT just about procreation, it's about a great many things in fact. ALL sex has a "magical" element to it. Once again, all you have to do is try it to know whether or not it works. Don't take my word for it.

Living as an expat in Colombia for 3 years has majorly opened my eyes to human nature. People here have a lot MORE sex than North Americans, and it's not because they have more free time (they certainly don't here in the big city) or any other reason, it's because by and large people are more physically ATTRACTIVE to one another here. A woman's pickiness goes OUT THE WINDOW the moment she sees a guy who PHYSICALLY fulfills her last expectation. She will pay the hotel room, bring breakfast in bed, tolerate other women in the picture or even open up her latent bi side for the guy, even pay his personal expenses, you name it. It's all about DEGREE OF ATTRACTION. This just never happens in North America because as ugly as the women are, the men are even uglier.

I'm also beginning to realize how awesome the ancient Greeks were with their aesthetics, and how RIGHT they were. I was quite the little relativist for awhile, but have come around to realize there are actually many absolutes in the universe. Being fat in ancient Greece was considered such an offense to society, it was sometimes even worth the death penalty! In contrast, we DELIBERATELY inject chemicals into the food so that our appetites are unnaturally stimulated to the point where we over-consume and wind up with health problems as a result :O

[Golfinho]

Well, I don't agree parents have any moral obligation to fund their children's education past age 18.

The mentality of the terminal prole, unworthy of comment.

[Dickhead]

"How do you know that the productivity of scientists declines after marriage? It tends to decline with age, too."

A lot of shit declines with age. Trust me on that one. But I'd be interested in a source or reference because I've always read and heard (and believe to be true from my own observations) that married men are more productive than single men. Tenure is an interesting point but only a very small portion of scientists are academics.

[Snake27]

Nice discussion.

If prostitution is a waste of time then the whole courtship and marriage deal is criminal. Married scientists are less productive than unmarried scientists, and the productivity of scientists declines after marriage. So, if a scientist chooses to indulge in the services of a prostitute once in a while then spends the rest of his time on research of great benefit to mankind instead of marrying is that a waste of time?

How do you know that the productivity of scientists declines after marriage? It tends to decline with age, too. And some become lazy when they get tenure. What percentage of Nobel laureates are single? I'm too lazy to look it up, but I doubt it's higher than the general population of males. Might even be lower.

Sex in humans is not limited solely to reproduction. Women are sexually receptive outside their ovulation periods. Obviously, sex plays a larger role in society beyond breeding. One only has to look at the widespread use of sex in marketing products that seem to have nothing to do with sex. Recreational sex can relieve stress and serve as an emotional outlet.

True, but actually a lot can be explained by the model I described below, though not in a short-post format like this. I think one may explain why women have sex outside their ovulation, why people are sometimes altruistic / cooperative as opposed to selfish / competitive, even why homosexuality exists, and a lot of other curious things. Nevertheless, reproduction lies at the core of sex. How can anyone question that ?

Marrying for, or dating, under false pretenses to obtain sex is far more costly and immoral than purchasing sexual services. People tend to ignore the negatives surrounding marriage and courtship. These relationships do not preclude the risk of STDs and carry their own plethora of issues including: financial squabbles, domestic abuse, divorce, allegations of unwanted sexual contact, custodial battles, division of property, emotional distress, infidelity or fear of it, personal sacrifice and feelings of being unappreciated.

There is way more immorality surrounding efforts to obtain 'free' sex than the outright purchase of sexual services.

Agreed.

[Chocha Monger]

If prostitution is a waste of time then the whole courtship and marriage deal is criminal. Married scientists are less productive than unmarried scientists, and the productivity of scientists declines after marriage. So, if a scientist chooses to indulge in the services of a prostitute once in a while then spends the rest of his time on research of great benefit to mankind instead of marrying is that a waste of time?

Sex in humans is not limited solely to reproduction. Women are sexually receptive outside their ovulation periods. Obviously, sex plays a larger role in society beyond breeding. One only has to look at the widespread use of sex in marketing products that seem to have nothing to do with sex. Recreational sex can relieve stress and serve as an emotional outlet.

Marrying for, or dating, under false pretenses to obtain sex is far more costly and immoral than purchasing sexual services. People tend to ignore the negatives surrounding marriage and courtship. These relationships do not preclude the risk of STDs and carry their own plethora of issues including: financial squabbles, domestic abuse, divorce, allegations of unwanted sexual contact, custodial battles, division of property, emotional distress, infidelity or fear of it, personal sacrifice and feelings of being unappreciated.

There is way more immorality surrounding efforts to obtain 'free' sex than the outright purchase of sexual services.

[Dickhead]

well, i don't agree parents have any moral obligation to fund their children's education past age 18 but i sort of get what you are saying. but if you don't have a family and you spend 100% of your money on hookers, that might be way stupid but i don't see how it's immoral.

regarding the wikipedia link in the penultimate post, according to them pretty much every single country has massive problems with sex trafficking, sex tourism, ****philia, blah blah blah. and of course it's getting worse, and yada yada yada. a crock of shit.

[Snake27]

"Spending too much money" is a moral Issue? How is that? I guess I could see if you spent money mongering and neglected your child support or something, but this seems like a real reach to me.

Moral issues concern things you should and should not be doing, as they affect yourself or other people negatively. Yes, neglecting child support would be an example. Depleting the kids' college fund or going into serious debt would be others. The key phrase is "too much". Your definition might be different from mine (which might be why it's stretch to you?). I would suggest a maximum of 3 % income if you have family obligations and 10 to 20 % if you are single and only harming yourself. Of course, if you have a family then there are other moral issues as well, as I discussed below.

[Adindas]

Wikipedia is one of the place

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_by_country

Just click the country you want to know (scroll down and you will see) and there will be information regarding whether it is legal, not illegal, or illegal in those countries.

Mind you can not rely 100% on Wikipedia. If you want to be 100% sure then you need to search the official government sites of those countries.

Hello,

Don't know if this is the right forum to post my question in but I do it anyway. I am a Newbie, and have set up some rules for myself, one is never to P4P in a country where it is illegal. However, I find it hard to obtain the correct information regarding this issue for many countries. And for example, in the Phillies, which seem to be on the Top 5 P4P list, it is illegal. Therefore, I would like to adress anyone who knows or knows where I can find information regarding this topic. Would be very grateful for replies. And BTW, I have tried to search the net but I don't know if the information I have gathered is credible.

Take care,

Omeprazol

[Dickhead]

"Spending too much money" is a moral Issue? How is that? I guess I could see if you spent money mongering and neglected your child support or something, but this seems like a real reach to me.