The Morality of Prostitution

[Furysys]

And don't think the MDE girls can be any less painful. Once they get on top and start bouncing up and down,

You and your johnson are going to have one helluva workout, like the one I was with in Tatianas.

[MeatMan]

One of the things I like about being a man is that I refuse to call myself a victim. No matter What the circumstance.

No sports program?, Workout and play on your own. No college? Go to the library. Prostitutes? Look harder. Overseas.

Take some personal responsibility. So what if things aren't handed to you on a silver platter anymore. Man the fuck up.

[Dickhead]

yeah, that one. and some of those women hiss like snakes when they get turned on. and they bite. also they tell you to make sure to pull out and then they wrap their legs around you and start screaming "dame toda tu leche en mi concha toda toda toda."

try withdrawing your informed consent at that fucking point! so it's obviously [CodeWord123].

[Westy]

I have fucked numerous Guaraní in both Paraguay and in Argentina. That facing scissors position they like is a real ***** at my age.

Oh yeah, the Iguazu nutcracker.

[Dickhead]

I have fucked numerous Guaraní in both Paraguay and in Argentina. That facing scissors position they like is a real ***** at my age.

[Westy]

Sweden likes to sell itself to the rest of the world as this free-love capital where guys and girls all hook up with each other because they are really attracted to each other, but I think it's a big lie and I imagine Sweden as a very sexless place these days. I don't have any personal experience either way, but it seems to me from where I'm standing that their precious model is not working out so well.

Could it be they didn't recognize that the adjective "neutral" shares its roots with the verb "neuter"?

I don't think it was chosen to "enhance the happiness" of the Swedish people. I believe the Swedish model was concocted to "demonstrate and enhance the liberated (feminst) and progressive dynamic of Swedish society."

Won't be going there, no matter how lovely the blondes may be. 'Nuff said.

[Westy]

prostitution is violence against men, not against women. you don't believe me, trying fucking these guaraní chicas. they just brutally [CodeWord123] you. i don't know what the hell that position is called but my dick doesn't bend that way, baby! and the reverse asian cowgirl is extremely violent as well.

especially when they miss!

ooooh, it hurts to think about that!

guarani? that happened to you in paraguay?

[Dickhead]

I have not been to Sweden but I just fucked an Argentinean hooker who has been there twice. From her point of view, Swedish men "wear the skirts in the family." We just talked about this today. She used as an example, that in the grocery store parking lot, the woman gets behind the wheel of the car while the man loads the groceries in the car. She feels this is very strange. I told her about how it was legal for women to sell pussy but not for men to buy it and she flat out did not believe me. I told her I thought it was great that the woman always drove. That puzzled her."Why?" "So I can drink!" Now THAT she understood.

She and I have had a couple of discussions on the morality of prostitution over the years. Her point of view boils down to a pretty typical Catholic mentality: "If it's bad God will forgive me because being able to send my kid to private school has to be more good than this could bad." About half the time I point out there is no god and about half the time I just let it go. Of course to her mind she is no longer a prostitute since she has a boyfriend. When I stick fifty bucks in her purse that is something else to her, somehow.

But not to me.

[Bango Cheito]

A week ago or so the Swedish tabloid Expressen published a few articles about the "other" Thailand the charter tourists don't see. About old Swedish men marrying much younger Thai women and of course an article from Pattaya about the sex trade. I have read another article in a Swedish newspaper recently and it seems these female journalists have just discovered that mongers aren't always dirty old men.

The horror that young attractive guys who could get Swedish pussy decides to monger.

Sweden likes to sell itself to the rest of the world as this free-love capital where guys and girls all hook up with each other because they are really attracted to each other, but I think it's a big lie and I imagine Sweden as a very sexless place these days. I don't have any personal experience either way, but it seems to me from where I'm standing that their precious model is not working out so well.

[Dickhead]

prostitution is violence against men, not against women. you don't believe me, trying fucking these guaraní chicas. they just brutally [CodeWord123] you. i don't know what the hell that position is called but my dick doesn't bend that way, baby! and the reverse asian cowgirl is extremely violent as well.

especially when they miss!

[LittleTruths]

I'd like to put forth an idea of the morality, the value, of prostitution. ISG just might be an empathetic forum for this idea.

Prostitutes fulfill a desire to "feel loved," in the intimate ways, a desire felt by people who believe their needs are a great imposition on others. Prostitutes offer a simulacrum of "loving" for people who've given up on "finding love" in purely "social" terms. By renting access to their bodies, they get something they value (money) in exchange for something their clients Value (sex). And they offer it with no strings attached. Play for pay. On a cash basis. They give their clients something the clients can no longer find without Paying for their play.

How many of us punters feel that way about sex and "love"? How many of us are mongering because we've given up "looking for love"? How many of us have come to the end of that road, and reached the conclusion that pay-for-play is the only way left for us to find the sweetness we've been dying for?

I woke up this morning with an insight that seems very fundamental, but it IS very uncomfortable: There's love that is giving, and love that is grasping. There's love that's expressed by fulfilling the other's needs, and there's love that's needy and grasping for one's needs to be fulfilled.

Wouldn't the ideal of love be one of trading? One of balance? One of filling the other's needs while the other fills your needs?

Seems to me that, in Western civilization, love has fallen into an imbalance. Too many women have reached the level of grasping all the guy has got, but scorning his needs. And tossing him aside when he has no more to give. To be fair, I have to acknowledge there are guys who grab all the "loving" (I. E. Sexual favors) they Can get, and discard their "used lovers" when they get attracted to a fresh target; and I also see the "rescuers" of both sexes, attracted by "fixing another's fatal flaws," the co-dependents of the world. Who get "taken," and then discarded, again and again and again.

Is it surprising when a man who has "given all he has to give," who has been bled dry and discarded, again and again, comes to a point where he won't do that any more? But who can he turn to when "Love" turns away?

AND YET: Prostitution is looked on with contempt. It's looked upon as "degrading." Paying for sex is looked on with special contempt, At the level of "How dare a man?" And the "paid player" is looked on, at best, as "the victim." (Cf: sexköpslagen, The Swedish "sex-buying" law.) What about the poor bastard who has been victimized, again and again, by the women to whom he's offered his love; who has reached the point where he'd rather pay cash for an hour's sweaty bed-bouncing companionship, than look for someone who's offering it "free" (but as bait)?

I ran into a very interesting phrase, about the sociology of sex work, on the "Border Thinking" web page of sociological maverick Laura Agustin:

Notice the implication of that last phrase. "{prostitution} must be considered violence against women."

It leaves us with "woman the eternal victim," and man "the eternal villain." And it leaves as helpless, not worthy of help, those poor souls who are left emotionally with "nothing left to give."

Basically, the prostitute gives us at least a taste of "the sweetness." And I hold that to be moral.

Any comments?

Very true, well thought, well put down and touching as well.

It is disturbingly sad to think that mostly, the chances one has when it comes to relationships are either to be a "grasper" or a "rescuer".

It's like having to chose between the frying pan or the fire itself.

As a "rescuer", you end up giving and giving and giving all you can, in the hope that you may, as you should, get some of all that love back for your own delight, but in reality you happen to give it to the "wrong" people, and somewhere down the line you just give up even entertaining the thought of managing to build such a rewarding relationship.

As a "grasper". Well, I can't really express first hand what it has to be like to be like that. What I have seen tho, is that usually the "grasper seems to be somewhat of a less "emotionally developed" human being, either due to some personal issues or simply because they never happened to fully develope into what they could have been.

The graspers take whatever they can but during the whole process they turn out to be shallow.

They are, in my humble experience, very fascinated by the emotional depths offered by an "emotionally developed" partner, but sadly they know not what to do with it.

You can guide them, taking them by the hand and show them the way, but they just can't make their way on their own and this in turn ends up being a very unrewarding relationship for you.

They just fail, fail to meet your needs and fail to be good enough to keep you.

You get hurt. Eventually you give up and walk away.

They realize what they have lost when it's too late already.

There is no point in having a bunch of women all around the world saying that you have been and will forever be the love of their life, when you have given all that to them and they gave you nowhere near as much.

As a final thought tho, by no means I'd like to be I their shoes.

[Ararat]

I live in Asia (Thailand especially) and it's no wonder that with dumb models like the swedish one, we see sex tourists going more and more to Asia (south east asia to be more correct).

A week ago or so the Swedish tabloid Expressen published a few articles about the "other" Thailand the charter tourists don't see. About old Swedish men marrying much younger Thai women and of course an article from Pattaya about the sex trade. I have read another article in a Swedish newspaper recently and it seems these female journalists have just discovered that mongers aren't always dirty old men.

The horror that young attractive guys who could get Swedish pussy decides to monger...

[NicFrenchy]

That "Swedish model" is being pushed, hard, worldwide. And according to that model, I am the villain just for wanting some toto, and being willing, nay eager, to pay for the play.

Pardon my rant, but that's what REALLY rattles my cage.

They can always try to push it but won't succeed in my parts. I live in Asia (Thailand especially) and it's no wonder that with dumb models like the swedish one, we see sex tourists going more and more to Asia (south east asia to be more correct).

There are still countries where the monger is seen as a regular man.

[Westy]

i live in sweden and am very familiar with the thinking behind the law. i have never met a foreigner, male or female, who agree with the ideas of this law. this doesn't prevent the whackos in charge to push for it. on the bright side, just recently there was a note in the newspaper about some eu-issue where the swedish spokeswoman confirmed that the other eu countries weren't receptive to the idea of the swedish law.

i go to germany once in a while and then i go to fkk clubs. a perhaps unintended consequence of the law is that prices have gone up so much that even if i didn't get my trips paid for by my employer it would still be cheaper to buy a plane ticket and a hotel room for one night to spend 30 minutes with a fkk girl than mongering in sweden.

a link for you westy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...en-crime-palme

göran lindberg's story is one i would describe as "villainous victimization," to an extreme. certainly if he really was playing the kind of game of which he was accused.

in january this year, following a six-month investigation, lindberg was arrested. at the time of his apprehension he was allegedly on his way to meet a 14-year-old girl in a hotel encounter that was also due to feature a number of other men. it was said that in his car was a bag containing leather whips, handcuffs and a blindfold.

chilling.

so let's view lindberg's story from the feminist-nanny-statist-media perspective of "guilty until, and even if, proven innocent." and let's extend the argument, or rather the polemic, into "proof that even the most sympathetic male, the male staunchest in his work against sexism, the most articulate spokesperson for sexual equality and for giving sympathetic help to the marginalized poor working girls, will have a seamy dark villainous side. it shows you that all men are potential victimizers, [CodeWord127], sexual abusers, oppressors, etc, etc, ad nauseam."

the sex worker, according to conventional intellectual wisdom, is in a weak position, socially and financially, and lacks power in any transaction with the consumer. therefore she can't be said to be acting of her own free will, particularly, of course, if she has been trafficked and effectively held prisoner.

that's been the game plan since the 1970s: woman=victim; male=oppressor.

geez, if i'm "the oppressor," just by dint of being male, why do i feel so damn oppressed?

i hope for your sake, ararat, that the swedes never get the germans to close the fkk clubs.

[Ararat]

according to the Swedish model and the Kvinnofrid law,"the victimizer is, ultimately, the guy who offers money for sex. It's his money that makes the sex-market profitable, together with [CodeWord908] and all the abuses therein."

That "Swedish model" is being pushed, hard, worldwide. And according to that model, I am the villain just for wanting some toto, and being willing, nay eager, to pay for the play.

Pardon my rant, but that's what REALLY rattles my cage.

I live in Sweden and am very familiar with the thinking behind the law. I have never met a foreigner, male or female, who agree with the ideas of this law. This doesn't prevent the whackos in charge to push for it. On the bright side, just recently there was a note in the newspaper about some EU-issue where the Swedish spokeswoman confirmed that the other EU countries weren't receptive to the idea of the Swedish law.

I go to Germany once in a while and then I go to FKK clubs. A perhaps unintended consequence of the law is that prices have gone up so much that even if I didn't get my trips paid for by my employer it would still be cheaper to buy a plane ticket and a hotel room for one night to spend 30 minutes with a FKK girl than mongering in Sweden.

A link for you Westy.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...en-crime-palme