The Morality of Prostitution

[Smut Villain]

Quote by Pokey:

"I think DH revolution is interesting and I do like parts of it. But, I feel without a good 'Moral" code of something like Religion or other spiritually rituals like "Zen" that his "Utopia" will quickly enter a downward spriral into decadence like Sodom and Gomorrah."

Hey Pokey, you ever watch MTV or BET? We already have religion, and our society is headed towards decadence anyway.

I agree with you 100% that we would need some sort of moral code, but for a different reason: something like "common law" (for example) would keep us from (unnecessarily) fucking each other over (e.g. taking shit that isn't yours, killing someone who doesn't deserve it, etc.)

Obeying a common set of morals like these wouldn't create some sort of utopia (that would be impossible anyway), but they would make the new world a lot more livable.

[Dickhead]

Since I am living on a military base, I would say bring it ON! This will no doubt be the last time in my life I have this type of firepower to protect me.

After the revolution there will be no more fucking religion, that's for damn sure. Religion is a tool of the ruling class, and since there will be no ruling class, religion will merely be a quaint anachronism.

[Lizzard King]

I am sure this question has been asked before but I will go for it anyway.

The question is that prostitution is sex for money, correct?

What if it is a barter arrangement and no money ever changes hands. Say I am a tax preparer and I do a prostitutes taxes for sexual favors. Is that Prostitution. This is just hypothetical but it crossed my mind. I don't see it as being illegal as no money ever changes hand. just one had washes the other.

LK

[Pokey]

I think DH revolution is interesting and I do like parts of it. But, I feel without a good 'Moral" code of something like Religion or other spiritually rituals like "Zen" that his "Utopia" will quickly enter a downward spriral into decadence like Sodom and Gomorrah.

I think DH is living this fantasy somewhere on a small scale, with women all over him. Since I'm talking movies, he reminds me of the Marlon Brando character in " Apocalypse now" where he was living in a jungle with followers. I think someone needs to get a boat and go after DH and deliver the ultimate sanction, before its too late.

[Pokey]

lombardi ii, with all due respect, i think you need to fuck more then one "independent provider", before you can form a good opinion on working girls. there are a wide range of prostitutes, from low wage street hooker $20 or less, to high price hookers, $1000 and up. i think most mongers on this board have had experience with more then 100 girls. ( i lost count years ago)

cash works, same thing, i don't know how many hooker's you been with, but this one sounds special. i think she is one of the worst kind. she is like a drug dealer, she gave you a freebee the first time, got you hooked, then made you pay all other times.

i'm sorry those "snobs" looked down they're nose at you, but how many lucky people are around who don't have to work for a living?( most people hang with people from their race and income level) i agree with you about the hooker being the center of attention, but more like a freak show.

if you read about 8 pages down from this post, i did post something regarding that there were a few, "self actualizing" prostitutes, that would make maslow happy, but feft there were the exception.

hey, look at even the most successful hookers' on film. julie roberts in "pretty women", she was almost kicked out of that nice 5 star hotel, for being a pro. richard gere's character didn't take her seriously till the end of the movie. jason alexander, slapped her, and tried to [CodeWord123] her. they never did have a pretty women ii, i think the writers couldn't come up with a happy ending is the reason why there was never a "pretty women ii."

[Dickhead]

After the revolution there will be no more countries, just one world.

[Cash Works]

Dickhead,

Unfortunately, I think the only people who will profit from your revolution, in a mongering sense, will be the folks from outside your country, who are going there for the purpose of mongering. If the girls are nearer the top wage than the bottom wage, then none of the locals would be able to afford them - not even yourself, since you would also have to be in that same wage scale.

Pokey,

I have a few comments on the following quote from your post from a few days ago.

"To say there is no difference between a longshoreman and hooker is laughable. Can you see the Hooker at a social gathering when asked what she does for a living, say "Im a Hooker", can you picture the reaction and hard-ons'! Can the Hooker go to the bank and fill out loan papers for a house, and put down she is a hooker, and bring out her tax returns to prove it? There is a stigma attached to be a Hooker, and it take a high toll on both the Monger and the Hooker."

1. I used to work in Oil Exploration, while I've never been embarassed by it, I have been in numerous "social gatherings" where, once some of the other people found out that I actually worked for a living and that I would actually get dirty occasionally at my job, they tried to make me feel embarrassed about it (we're talking snobs who inherited everything and if employed, they owe their position to nepotism) - I'm sure the Longshoreman would have been in the same predicament as I.

I've also been in "social gatherings" where hookers or ex-hookers were present and they wound up being the center of attention of a non-mongering crowd - these folks (men and women) were fascinated by the women, once they found out about their professional lives, they were even more captivated. Obviously, this wouldn't happen in every situation, but it does happen.

2. The first hooker I ever actually had sex with (she actually gave me a freebie because I had been nice to her and helped her out - it wasn't until after the sex that I found out that she was a hooker). It was in New Orleans (1983 or 1984), she had come travelled from California to work at the World Fair/Expo. She was an independent (no pimps or madammes), said she didn't do drugs or drink and hooked entirely for the money, but she said that sometimes, she also enjoyed the sex. She also claimed that she had been investing her money & planned on starting a business that wasn't sex-work related once she had enough cash flow from her investments to support her.

While she wasn't the typical hooker, I would have to say that if she wasn't able to pay cash for her house, she'd be able to find a way to convince the bank to loan her the money. She was very business minded and actually seemed fairly intelligent.

CW

[Lombardi II]

To paraphase Tina Turner, what's morality got to do with it?

I struggled with that question for months, and finally concluded that prostitution as I have experienced it is no more or less moral than any other business. My experience is limited to a handful of sessions with one independent provider who has proven to be honest, trustworthy and reliable. These are qualities that I look for in anyone with whom I do business regardless of the product or service that is being sold. The provider that I speak of is clean (does not use drugs), hygenic and by her own admission "spoiled" as a child. In other words, she has chosen this path. According to her, the money is good and the work can be dangerous at times (taking on new clients, for instance) but is easy. Am I naive to take her at her word? It would be easy for me to imagine that she was abused early in life, or that she suffers from some type of mental illness, but by all indications that is simply not the case.

I do not understand the stigma that is often associated with prostitution. Fortunately, I have never been exposed to the "dark side" of the business by virtue of my lack of experience. I am sure that many women are exploited by this business, but from talking with other mongers and from reading member reports on the WSG forums it would seem that for every woman who is coerced into prostituting herself, there is a woman who chooses to do so. For every pro who feels oppressed, there is one who views her job as a pleasure instead of a plight. Is it naive to think this way? Is this just a rationalization?

In my opinion, the title of this forum implies that prostitution is, in fact, immoral. My perception is that many of our regular contributors feel guilty about their participation in the trade and post here in an effort to placate themselves (no offense, guys). I have felt that way, and it is probably what drew me to this forum.

The source of the guilt? I know that it is not rational (I have not done anything "wrong" nor anything to feel badly about), so my best guess is that it stems from either guilt/shame about sexuality in general or from some insecurity about my own sexuality. I have often deferred to the provider when asked what I want to do with my time. I suppose that there is something intimidating about a woman who has sex with so damn many partners!

It would be interesting to know how many of us were raised in a religious environment (I was). I wonder how much of a factor that is.

[Dickhead]

It'll be like the short-lived Spanish Republic (in its revolutionary phase prior to the outbreak of civil war, and particularly as seen in Catalunia). A classless society with no ranks or titles and minimal income differences. Wealth will have been forcibly redistributed and I as leader will probably allow a maximum ratio of 2 or 3 to 1 between the highest incomes for the scarcest and most complex skills such as doctors (lawyers will not be needed and will be ruthlessly slaughtered) and the least complex skills such as janitors. Hookers will earn nearer to the top wage than the bottom wage, not because they have scarce skills but merely to ensure an adequate supply for the good of all. Private property will be allowed but inherited wealth will not (use it or lose it). Marriage will be abolished. There will be no professional sports teams, only local club sports. My government will not control the means of production except in the case of natural monopolies. The revolution will not destroy the production infrastructure unless the elites follow a scorched earth policy; rather, it will be redistributed on the basis of merit. It will be unnecessary to redistribute productive capacity based on need since I will already have equally redistributed wealth. Anyone who can't make a go of it with their share of the wealth will unfortunately be allowed to perish. However in succeeding generations, heavy investment in education and intellectual capital will be aimed at training even the least intelligent citizens to have some viable job skills.

Then after my death we can hold free elections but the main tenets will be written into a constitution, also to take effect only upon my death, and only alterable by another revolution.

I figure Argentina's a good place to start. It's pretty much total chaos down there anyway and there's plenty of hookers.

Note to Argentinean immigration authorities: Kidding!

PS: I was in Sydney for the I believe it was 2001 Gay Olympics and thought it was a real hoot, at least as a spectator sport, though perhaps not as fun as Junkanoo.

[Pokey]

DH, I was thinking about the coming revolution you talk about, and concluded it won't be any good for Mongers. I share you're view about the rentier class exploitation of the working class, including working girls. I wanted to know what you are going to replace it with? A Socialistic or Libertarian type of Government?

I still think the Capitalistic/Economic system of Government still works best as an incentive to get workers to work hard, and have a dream of one day becoming successful, even if it is a dream to some. The carrot and stick appoach works good as well.

After this so-called revolution; I just picture automobiles like they have in Cuba, or lazy European workers, with stong unions, not working hard, because they are not scared of the "stick".

But, worst of all; I picture sex workers looking like Russian women, who could careless about customer service, because she is secure in her job, and because there won't be any incentive for her to work hard.( don't touch there, no BBJ or DATY, because of the rules)

I believe competition is good with a less restrictive government is better if you want good service from a working girl. A case in point is in Australia. Threre the women have competition and according to the post I read around here, treat their men good.( like that fellow at the party where the girl lifts her dress showing her pussy, and says Welcome to Australia-something like that.)

In Australia the competition comes from Gay men. They have the Gay Marde Gras, very big party in Sydney, and the country won destination of the year in "Out & About" magazine. The women also have strong competition from "Sheep", hey, no wonder the women give good service.

DH, regarding the brothel stock. I believe the company is "Daily Planet" the symbol is NPL.AX, some penny stock. The company started out well, at 50 cents, went to $2.50, but currently trading now at 69 cents.

You don't want to get me started about penny stocks. I usually hate the things.

[Scorpio33]

"The Daily Planet Limited", listed on the Australian Stock Exchange. Ticker symbol: DPL. Share price at time of this posting is (appropriately enough) $0.69.

[Dickhead]

Which brothel is listed on the stock exchange? What's the ticker symbol?

[CBGBConnisur]

Smut, I live in Australia, and half as bad is an understatement, Aussie women love sex and see no bad in it, also you have to consider the fact that thousands of gorgeous mail order brides come into Australia every year they even developed a Visa for this called an Eros Visa, I'm not kidding about this. The attitude towards sex in Australia is really liberal, I remember this woman who managed a brothel her saying is " I would always feed a hungry man Filet Mignon not Hamburger." You'll never see this attitude in Nevada where they wil give you hamburger for the price of filet mignon. There is also a brothel that has stock listed on the Australian exchange, this doesn't happen even in places like Holland and Brazil.

[Smut Villain]

Greetings,

I've been monitoring this discussion on and off for a little while, and I have to say that you guys described my situation with %100 accuracy. I was living in northwestern Mexico for about 5 years, and it seemed like I was dating someone new every couple of weeks. Hooking up with females was _never_ a problem!

But when I made a work-related move to the southeastern U.S., I suddenly went from "Don Juan" to "No One". I've heard the saying that the foreign women were just after American money, but these American women are actually a lot _worse_!!!! They expect a lot from their men without having to offer a lot in return. Then, when they hit 30 (and their marketability starts taking a downward spiral), they expect some poor schmuck to pick up the tab for their "damaged goods". Now that I think about it, that's probably why they are in such a rush to get married by then.

I could say that this is the price for living with women in Western society (considering how modern Feminism has further fucked up the playing field), but I've also been to Australia, and their women aren't half as screwed up.

Just my 2 cents' worth.

[Dickhead]

That is OK since I am no longer living in America and have no plans to return. But that is another section ....